Horace Grant, Last Dance Episodes 5 & 6, Mt Flushmore + Billy's Deep Dive

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On today's part of my take, we have Horace Grant, member of the first three-peat of the Chicago Bulls. On the show, we talked to Horace about gambling with MJ, possibly being the snitch for the Jordan Rules book, his time in Orlando with Shaq and Penny, his time in LA with Shaq and Kobe, everything.
Oh, also Scottie Pippen's cat, which is kind of a fun little side story. Great interview with him.
Gives us a little bit more insight into The Last Dance, which we will review episodes five and six. We have Who's Back of the Week, Mount Flushmore of sports to participate in, and Billy's Deep Dive, where he pitches a Shark Tank style on his his new protein.
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All right, back to part of my take.

Okay, let's go.

Fight!

Fight! Back to part of my take. Oh, no.
We're gonna rock down to Electric Avenue, and then we'll take it higher. Oh, we're gonna rock down to Electric Avenue.
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Today is Monday.

May the 4th be with you.

Oh, shit.

Let's go. I'm not even a Star Wars guy, and I remember that joke.

Wait.

Consecutive part of my take.

So we went from it's gonna be may

to may the fourth be with you damn that's pretty that's cool shout out robbie fox he's probably so pissed that we're not all in the office today so you can't say drop that line to everyone um all right we have awesome awesome show for you horse grant coming up uh a little nfl talk coming up Little Who's Back, Billy.

But before that, we're going to review episodes five and six of The Last Dance. Now, let's do it chronologically because as much as I want to start with the gambling stuff so we don't get confused, let's try to keep chronological order.
And we'll start with the dream team. And basically, I would say, if you had to break it down, Michael Jordan doing this documentary, 50% to remind everyone in the world that Michael Jordan's the GOAT and he's still better than LeBron, and 50% just to shit down Isaiah Thomas' throat.
Yes, I was going to say, I think that a big part of him finally releasing this footage what 22 years later is just to remind isaiah thomas that he was not on the dream team because he didn't shake his hand after that playoff series and that christian laettner was on that team how how out of place do you think christian laettner felt at that practice he probably knew better christian later was probably on the sidelines just like knowing not even to try to sub himself into the game oh it's it's been said it's been talked about uh that like MJ said like no matter what team Christian Laettner was on they would always lose like no matter what because he was that bad and that far out of like you know in the deep end when it came to how good this team was. The Monte Carlo practice is something that I don't, I think someone has the full unedited tape, and I don't know why we can't watch it.
Like, it makes no sense. Unless something has been said in it that can't be taken back, but it's crazy because it actually is the exact moment, and of course, MJ had already won two titles, but it's the exact moment where the torch really gets passed because you see Magic being like, it's still my team.
And then that happens and he's like, well, I guess it's not my team anymore. Yeah, imagine taking a torch out of a practice session.
Like we're not talking about an NBA finals. We're not talking about a playoff series.
Michael Jordan took the torch during a practice session, and it wouldn't shock me at all if Michael Jordan had paid players on Christian Laettner's team to lose every single practice game just so that they could go back and say, like, hey, Isaiah, you could have been on this team instead of this loser Christian Laettner, and you weren't. But, yeah, that practice was – I'd heard the stories about it before.
Hadn't seen this much footage of it yet. The footage has to exist.
It actually, if you want to get our conspiracy theorist hat on, I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility that LeBron James purchased that film like he purchased the film of getting dunked on at the Nike camp and just burned it so that people would know just truly how great Michael Jordan was. There's a longer version on YouTube that I've watched.
And I know that it does exist. I don't know why we can't watch the whole thing.
There's got to be a reason. Or maybe like now would be the time to let us see the whole thing.
But I would say it's probably the greatest practice of all time. And then the other stories out of the Olympics.
The Tony Kukoc. So we have the Michael Jordan grudge meter that we've been doing the last couple episodes after these last stands.
He has a full list tonight. The Tony Kukoc, where basically if Jerry Krause ever had eyes for anyone, ever, Michael Jordan's basically like, I'm going to destroy your life.
And that first game against Tony Kukoc, when Kukoc was like, I didn't even know we were playing that hard. And Jordan had Pippen guarding him and just dunking on him and everything.
And then Pippen was just a ruthless, like, yeah, he can't even play in the NBA because he was mad that Jerry Kraus was going to pay him more than he was paying Pippen. That was great.
And then I just remember that dream team was such a joke how much better they were than everyone. It was so, so insane.
They did lose one game to a scrimmage to a college all-star team where I think Chuck Daly didn't even play MJ just to prove the point. Like, you guys could lose to anyone, but they couldn't lose to anyone.
They couldn't. They didn't take a timeout in the entire Olympics.
It's incredible how good that team was. It occurred to me while I'm watching this that there are so many people out there whose best moments in their lives are getting their ass kicked by Michael Jordan.
There are probably 3,000 people that looking back on their deathbed, they're like, you remember when Michael Jordan just absolutely dominated me? That was pretty cool so so speaking of that because i went to look up i was trying to find some stories because it's famous that's why dan dockage doesn't shut up well it's true it's true it's good hey that's it's a great point because i thought about this when i was watching croatia dockage seems like it's a croatian name could he have played for croatian in those olympics and come in as like the jordan stopper I don't think he was good enough I mean Tony Kukoc was a fucking really good player and Croatia was actually like I mean they were worlds worse than USA but they were better than everyone else um so I went and looked up uh no offense to Dockage but that's just yeah he's not an NBA he's not NBA caliber player or Europe caliber player. So I went back and I looked because there's a bunch of famous stories about how MJ would play 36 holes before these games and not even care.
I found and I found one that I had never seen before from Charles Barkley. I think he told recently and it's basically MJ rolled up all everything you just said, PFT, like the amount of people out there who are like, my best moment is getting smoked by him.
So it was a – I'm going to read what Chuck said. He said, they go out, play 18, and Chuck Daly says, okay, that was a great time.
And Michael says, no, I'm going to go play another 18. And Barkley says, I'm like Michael, we got a game tonight.
He says, Chuck, I'll be fine, blah, blah, blah. So Michael comes back after playing another 18.
We're getting ready for the game. And Chuck says, Charles, you got this guy.
Scotty Pippen, you got this guy. And then Michael says, nah, I got him.
It was the point guard from Puerto Rico. And Chuck says, well, he's the point guard, Michael.
Michael looks at him and says, I said I I got him I read something he said about me in the newspaper and I got him and the whole room's like dude you just played 36 at holes of golf and you're going to guard the point guard Michael would not let his this little dude dribble he had played 36 holes and he's talking to the guy the whole time like hey don't you ever talk about me publicly again I Michael Jordan. Don't you ever talk about me.
That is a practice scrimmage game against Puerto Rico. We got to look up and find out exactly what the guy said because my guess is the dude from Puerto Rico was like, yeah, Michael Jordan's the best player of all time, but he's human or something innocuous like that.
You know, like on a good day, anything can happen. And Jordan had to he was at a level where he had to invent all these rivals that weren't actually rivals to him just so he could like get motivated to go out and beat somebody's ass.
Right. Like, hey, like, you know, we've been practicing really hard.
Michael Jordan's the greatest of all time, but we can't go in there and be intimidated by him. Yeah.
Yeah. And Jordan was like, no, I got this guy.
So, the other, also, Harvey Schiller is on the grudge meter,

that just random clip where he's like, Harvey Schiller's a real dick, right before MJ pulls the classic move of the flag over the Reebok, which I'm sure would have been, it was a controversy back then because there was nothing to talk about in terms of the games, but today it would have been like insane-up. People would have flipped out.
It also got Reebok a lot of action on social media tonight. Like how many impressions did they get just based off Michael Jordan honking him back in 1992? Also, how about Adidas listening to MJ be like, yeah, Adidas was my number one, but they literally couldn't make a shoe.
Yep. That's tough.
That's tough if you're in Adidas. Unbelievable.
All right. the other part of the episode five which was very interesting was the political stuff and uh the famous republicans buy sneakers too which mj says it was a joke and sam smith has since many times been like yeah he said it in jest but it became something like a lot bigger uh i actually i don't know what your take is pft but you can criticize mj for never being an activist but the one thing that he has always done is he's been pretty true to himself and that he's like this is kind of how i feel and how i'm going to do it and it doesn't feel fake at any point i i agree so you can you can always point from the outset and like, I wish this person would say more about this or that.
But it's tough to tell somebody what to actually do when you're in their shoes. That's a completely different thing.
If you just want to keep to yourself and go about your business, his life was not as a politician. His public life was not as a policymaker or as somebody who stood out there for social issues.

His job was a basketball player.

And if he didn't feel comfortable doing that, I've always found it tough to criticize somebody for not kind of going out of their lane a little bit if it's not important enough to them to do it.

It's actually – and it speaks to the greater theme of these theme of these two episodes, that people wanted MJ to fit in a perfect, like, box. And they wanted him to be the perfect guy in everything.
And they wanted him to be as politically active as Muhammad Ali. And they wanted him to not have a gambling problem and all these things.
And it's like, but he's kind of been open with how human he is. Like, the things i like and these are things i'm not going to do and yeah you could say someone with that platform might want to speak up more but at the same time he's always been consistent with that's how he's going to approach it yeah and if you're if that's the route that you want to take in public life i find it hard to criticize somebody for not saying like what i wish they would say does that make sense like let the person be themselves a little bit i didn't realize because i guess i hadn't paid that much attention to it before but i didn't know that the dude is running against jesse helms uh like which is very very racist that i think is the part that makes it like hey come on mj if there's ever a time that you could speak up this is the time well you didn't want to offend the air monarch the future air monarch shoe owners of america right but again i'm not going to tell someone how to you know what they should and shouldn't do when it comes to just because they're a famous basketball player and if he doesn't you know i i just have always thought his consistency with it at least if he went back and forth and did it when it was convenient for him i'd have a bigger problem with just being like either you are you aren't yeah it's an interesting study because michael jordan was the most famous person in the entire world probably for you know 10 or 15 years and it's like what does somebody can somebody like that exist without taking a stand on public platform issues and he he just kind of chose to keep to himself and focus on what was important to him and like you know of course there are certain things that people wish he would have done differently but i'm not going to be like no michael jordan from my perspective should have done this and that because it's really easy for me to say right so um that was interesting though i thought that was the first time in the documentary where it was starting to get into a territory where it's like, hey, he's not perfect, you know? And it's interesting because there were maybe some people criticizing that it was – well, I saw Ken Burns, who, like – who has heard from Ken Burns in the last 20 years said that it was too much of a puff piece.
It was like, why don't you let whole 10 10 episodes come out and let's then judge it and this is this was pretty honest that he you know people were not happy with mj for this and then we have the other moment we're in in episode six people are going after him for his gambling i've never related to anyone more than michael jordan saying i don't have a gambling problem i can stop whenever i want knowing that he still gambles to this day right right and he could he hasn't wanted to stop he has not wanted to stop he doesn't have to and david stern's quote it was something along the lines of uh his gambling issue was never an epic crisis of a problem like adding two qualifiers on there like he knew it was a very bad problem but again this is all on a sliding scale if you're michael jordan and you're rich as shit and like he said his family's not starving his kids aren't starving that's how you know it would be a problem then i guess he didn't have a gambling problem he had a he had a problem when he would lose gambling because then he needed to gamble more yeah he had a competition problem he said he just wanted to compete who doesn't want to compete if that you know that Jerry Curled security guard wouldn't have beat him into throwing the quarter against the wall competition, then he wouldn't have to gamble against that guy for the rest of his life until he made that money back. That shrug was so great.
That was such a great behind-the-scenes moment right there. That shrug was all-time.
Connie Chung, by the way, I miss those interviews in the 90s when they did like the soft focus on the camera so everything was a little bit blurred and she dropped the uh you know people are saying uh you're gambling with your reputation he was like what do you what do you mean like what are you fucking talking about i like to play blackjack and i like to lose a shitload of money because I think I'm better at golf than I am. Right.
Leave me alone. All in all, losing, you know, five, six figures at a time playing blackjack is not that bad of a vice considering what the alternatives could have been for somebody with his high profile.
Right. So, yeah, he likes to gamble.
OK, everyone's got a vice. If you don't have a vice, then you've got some serious.

Like Marv Albert didn't have a gambling problem, you know?

That toupee, by the way, I forgot how apparent Marv Albert's toupee has been through history.

Go ahead, Hank.

One thing that I do think is a common misconception, because it was for me before I moved to New York,

is that Atlantic City is really not near New York City whatsoever.

So him being like, yeah, I just wanted to get out of the city for a little while. It's four hours to get there, like four long hours.
That story when he was like, yeah, we were there to like, you know, we went to gamble a little play, a little blackjack. I was home by like 1230.
He's like, dude, no chance. He was home by 1230.
No chance. Yeah, you would have to leave Atlantic City at like 915 to get home by midnight.
It didn't happen. Well, he probably took a helicopter.
Well, he said he took a limo. But yeah, he might have taken one back.
But at the end of the day, it's like he's not hurting anyone. And like he said, he has a lot of money and he gambles it.
I remember that book, by the way,, the guy, the Eskenis guy, the Michael and me, he basically wrote a book because MJ wouldn't pay his debt. Like, that was the ultimate nerd move.
To be like, you know, like, the mafia breaks your kneecaps. This Eskenis bro just wrote a fucking book being like, I played golf with MJ.
He owes me a shitload of dough. It'd be a real shame if this story would end up on the New York Times bestseller list.
Yeah, and having Michael and me in that picture. That's such a loser threat to make, yeah.
Yeah, in that picture. And then, of course, I mean, it's pretty shocking that MJ, as late as 92, 93, was hanging out with Slim Bowler and being like, like that's Slim Bowler, a guy named Slim with Jerry Curl and like a golf, he's all known as a golf hustler.
That's just going to get you in trouble every time. Was it like 90% of people named Slim, when they fill out their income taxes, they write hustler as their profession? So great.
I mean, I think everybody I think everybody should have still hanging with them. Everybody should have a friend named Slim that all they do is gamble with.
Yeah. But that was such a funny scene.
And then, yeah, MJ was like, yeah, $57,000 check. I had to pay him because I lost in golf.
So it's, you know, I'm sure we'll get a little darker when we get to the next episode when we talk about MJ's dad getting murdered.

But there is an element of people going after him for the politics stuff and the gambling stuff.

They wanted this perfect thing and it just doesn't exist. It was almost like you can make the analogy to pre pre-Tiger getting caught for having like a sex addiction.
You have these athletes. No athlete is perfect.
You think you know these human beings, but they're not perfect. And there's a lot.
And, you know, it starts with the Jordan Rules book and then the Isaiah stuff and then the political activism and then the gambling. Like it becomes a, hey, this guy is not exactly the perfect guy that you think he is he's unbelievable at basketball and he's rough around the edges what are you going to do right if you gave the average person in America the attention the level of fame and the money that Michael Jordan had in the year 1998 and just sent them out into the wild I guarantee you almost every single person would get into some more messed up shit than Michael Jordan did Michael Jordan I mean to be fair like yeah he's not perfect he did some bad stuff and I think like his personality comes out his hyper competitive personality rubs people the wrong way and that's part of who he is and that's part of how he you know achieved the level of greatness that he did um but at the end of the day like most people if they if they were put in that situation they would fuck up way worse than michael jordan did so i don't have a problem with that and when what when ken burns is like oh this isn't a real documentary he's like yeah no shit ken burns okay like i you're ken burns you yeah you bleed capital j journalism it's like mozart complaining that Nickelback doesn't write good enough music.
It's like, yeah, this documentary is not like capital J journalism. Michael Jordan had the ultimate sign off on it.
He had final cut or whatever. We're here to watch a story about Michael Jordan featuring awesome behind the scenes footage.
I'm going to enjoy doing that. Right, right.
Other notes I had, so the grudge meter, oh, the BJ Armstrong quote when he was like, in that 92 season, they were all playing, and MJ just was figuring out ways to win games. Like, he wasn't really, like, it wasn't even a game to him.
He was just like, I'm just going to win the game when I want to. Like, everyone else is playing basketball.
He's winning games um the Suns coach how about how about in the finals against the Suns when um this is how you know that you're going to lose when your coach starts screaming we're not going to let Jordan beat us like that's his strategy is just to scream loudly that we're not going to let Jordan beat us at that point Jordan's already won dude that and uh Charles just seeing

skinny Charles and Charles Barkley was so goddamn good it's it's kind of like he's gotten so fat and uh you know not winning a title but again he lost to Michael Jordan and that moment where he said in game two when he's like I played the best game of my life and MJ just outplayed me I went back and looked at the box score, Charles

had 42-13-4

and MJ had 42-12-9. He's just like, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? And I do love – so there was some more grudges that were settled.
So Clyde Drexler in episode five, when that's just the media saying that Clyde and MJ are on the same level. So that's not Clyde Drexler doing that MJ was just like fuck this guy he's not on my level uh Barkley in in the 93 series because Barkley wins the MVP which weirdly enough like you could make the case that MJ should have won the MVP all six years that they won the titles but they gave it to Barkley in 93 and they gave it to Malone in 97 because of the MJ fatigue.
And in a weird way, that just made it more unfair for the rest of the league by being like, you're not the MVP. You're not the best player in the league this year.
Okay, how's Michael Jordan going to react to that? He's going to fucking rip their heart out. So he had Barkley and then Dan Marley, another Jerry Krause, where Jerry Krause is love Dan Marley and then Michael Jordan's like yo fuck that if you like him I hate him I'm gonna Thunder Dan yeah and uh when Paxton hits that shot and you see Dan Marley just he Dan Marley almost pulls the Craig Elo and falls to the ground yes when John Paxton releases that shot he's like I know this is going in Pax what a hero he's gonna he's gonna have a nice come up yeah and it's actually it it's actually perfect that he's not in his job anymore because i feel like that would have been the reception of like every time they show him it's like fuck this guy now he can't hurt he can't hurt us anymore so you're free to celebrate the shot again yeah the shot brings up good feelings good good feelings.
Good timing. But it was good two episodes.
I really do kind of wish we just had these one episode every night for ten consecutive nights because they're all just so good, and I just want to watch them all right now. It's kind of rare that you get done watching.
Leroy, what are you doing? Sorry, Leroy's eating an entire Indian dinner off my coffee table. Hang on.
Oh. Okay.
That's a wild move to have an Indian dinner just sitting on your coffee table. Spit it out.
He's eating tinfoil right now. Leroy, spit it out.
I'm not going to blame Leroy for that one. That's on you.
He's blind. Why the hell? He can find none from across the room.
Yeah. If Stella eats anything that is, like, height, you know, her height level, it's never my fault.
I mean, it's never her fault. It's always my fault.
Sorry, Leroy, go to your crate. He doesn't know where his crate is.
Okay. We'll watch something that's two hours long.
So each of these, you know, each Sunday night we sit down, we watch two hours of the Jordan documentary, and afterwards I feel better. I feel less tired after watching it.
Anything else, any movie that I watch, I'm like, okay, time to go to bed afterwards. Now it's like I want to stay up later, watch more of this, or at least watch some basketball on TV.
I actually had that thought during this, like how sad it is that we don't have an NBA Finals this year. Maybe we will, but there's just so much history in the NBA Finals.
It's one of those things that, I mean, I guess it's for all sports and their championships. You just remember where you were when you watched these things, and it's like a rite of passage on the calendar, like, oh, around like this is nba finals time like where is it so i'm a little sad i had that moment whenever it gets to when we get to like the end of may early june you're like shit this is when the nba finals should be going on i but uh it was great yeah i had two other notes having like playoff playoff ec Yes.
NHL and NBA. You're right.
We should be dealing with like overtime hockey games right now, fans getting punched in the throat. There should be a game set.
There probably was a game seven today. God damn it.
The other two notes I had, that depressed me. The other two notes that I had was how cool the Dream Team Cups were at McDonald's back in 1992.
I saw those pictures earlier today. That's all I could think about was putting those in the dishwasher and taking them out, and they're immediately like half of David Robinson's body's going on them after one wash.
But those cups are awesome. I would go back all the time to get those.
And then I was surprised that Michael Jordan laced up his own shoes before games. I always thought he had a guy that broke them in for him.
He doesn't trust anyone else. Like Jimmy Hendrix strings his own guitar probably.
Yeah. Could you imagine? It also probably was a third.
Like knowing that last episode talking about the crush of celebrity, the three minutes that he got to tie his own shoes was probably a nice getaway. It's like 10 minutes hockey yeah he could you imagine playing an entire basketball game in ones at like 14 years after that was the hottest new shoe it's crazy oh it's crazy the ones they they made now you might be able to play in the ones they made back then i can't even imagine uh another big loser maybe i was looking away maybe lero was eating some tikka masala off my plate when this happened i missed it but did they not even show the john stark stunk uh they did oh they did okay i must have missed that i thought i thought they just completely glossed over that no no i chalked that one up to mj having final cut yeah yeah no they did they did um yeah those series were, and we'll get to it.

I'm sure they'll show the 94 series, which we talked to Horace Grant about how great that series was with all the drama and different things that went on. All right, let's do, before we get to Horace Grant and who's back, we have to talk a little NFL, Andy Dalton, a Dallas Cowboy.
Now, do you think this is, one, a way to get Dak Prescott to the negotiating table, or two, this is actually a legitimately good move as Andy Dalton is a backup for the Cowboys? I mean, I think he's probably one of the best backups in the league right now. You'd have a hard time convincing me otherwise.
Andy Dalton is a very, very, backup quarterback I think it's partially that partially Jerry Jones likes having a red headed backup on his squad like he did with Jason Garrett someone that he can he can yell at all the time I think that it definitely applies some pressure to Dak so Dak is on a one-year tag which as Mike Florio pointed out could be rescinded I love Mike just stirring the pot Mike was like do you think that it's occurred to Jerry Jones to just say uh just tear up the one-year franchise tag walk away and say we're riding with Andy Dalton this year I think that's not going to happen but no um it is definitely a little bit of leverage on the cowboy side it's um it's also a great time to be able to write one of those stories about Andy Dalton going back to Texas. TCU from Texas, I think.
So we can do the whole storyline there. Yeah.
If he gets in a big game. I just want Andy Dalton to be in a big game with Jerry Jones' hopes and dreams resting on his shoulders.
And just have Jerry Jones in the corner box and maybe have an Andy Dalton mic'd up. That really would just be all I need.
You could just say Andy Dalton's mic'd up and not put a microphone on him and just play the silence and be like, here it is. Here's Andy Dalton getting real emotional with it.
I respect the move on Andy Dalton's part because I think he probably could have gotten as much, if not more money to go down to Jacksonville and reunite with Jay Gruden but this it's very clearly a move of I want to just go back home to where I'm from which I respect the hell out of that back when I was living in Austin I was I was hiring for a job and this dude came and I was like why do you want to apply for this job and he said he went on Google Maps and saw that this office was right next to his house. And so he decided to apply to work there.
And I was like, done, hired. Because I knew he was going to suck and I would be better than him at the job.
But I respect that move a lot. We can all sympathize with not wanting to have to deal with a commute.
So the Andy Dalton news happened. And then the only other NFL news we had was the Bears officially decided not to pick up Mr.
Bisky's fifth year, which I think we all sort of expected, but I'm just going to do this instead of talking about Mitch. Let's just talk about how bad the 2017 draft was at the top.
It was Miles Garrett good, but also has a temper problem.

Mitch Trubisky bad.

Solomon Thomas bad.

Leonard Fournette bad.

Corey Davis bad.

Everyone stinks.

So you know what?

The Bears really just were average.

They did league average.

I only had the first five.

Well, as far as the first five goes, yeah, it turns out that the teams that were drafting out of that year. John Ross came after that.
Did a bad job drafting at the top that year. John Ross.
Here's a spin zone for you. He's never played in a prove-it year.
Maybe he's just like a guy that needs that extra motivation. If you don't think I've had the thought that Mitch Trubisky's going to somehow have an incredible year and then, like, hold the Bears over the negotiating table and just be like, go ahead, pay me, and then go back to sucking after the Bears pay him.
That is, of course, how it's going to happen. Would you rather that or he kicks ass this year and then he looks at not getting that fifth year's disrespect and then he goes to, let's say, the lions.
And then he beats your ass.

It's all going to end poorly.

I don't know how, but it will.

He's going to end up being good somehow.

Speaking of bears, was this picture of Big Ben with a bear real?

I think so.

I'm going to choose to believe that it's real because he looks like a mountain man.

What?

I didn't see this.

Oh, yeah. Big Ben killed the shit out of a black bear.
Oh, yeah. Then it's definitely real.
Because he looks like a dude that has been lost in a hunting retreat for the last 18 months. So it doesn't shock me at all that he would take down a bear.
He could have been an extra in Revenant. Oh, dude.
Big Ben. Why you got to kill that bear, man? You could have been an extra in Revenant as a bear.

Yeah.

Oh, that sucks.

I feel bad for that bear.

He's like, the bear's like looking right in our face.

Like, yo, what's up, dudes?

I'm dead.

You know what occurred to me the other day?

The only time we get upset about a big animal getting killed is if the animal had a name beforehand.

Well, yeah.

Like Cecil the Lion. Our sweet prince.
Don't even say his name. Our sweet prince.
Dude, I totally didn't realize this, but did you realize that Slim Bowler had his golf clubs in his courtroom sketch? That is awesome. He came off the links into the courtroom? Was he wearing his spikes? Look at that.
That is so fucking cool. He had the courtroom.
I don't. I mean, that's unbelievable.
Or was that like, was that the artist taunting him? Like, like Alexander Ovechkin getting bounced in the playoffs and they just draw him with his golf clubs. That's so fucking funny.
That's, that's awesome. That's better than Tom Brady courtroom sketch.
Slim bowler, dude. That guy was trouble from the word go.
I got a take I've been squatting on for a second. I think the time's right to unleash it.
With your permission, I will. Yeah, go ahead.
Permission to deploy? I think that Blake Bortles is being blackballed by the NFL because he drives a Tesla and because the league's sponsors are motor oil companies, Castrol, Haviland, other competing rivals against Elon Musk and Tesla. He's going to get a job.
He's probably, knowing Blake, he probably has a contract sitting on his kitchen table. He just hasn't gotten around to signing it.
Like us and the premier lacrosse league contracts? Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
That's an economics lesson. Yeah.
Yeah. No, he's going to gonna be fine i hope he's not getting black bulb no offense to the word bald yeah um all right let's get to our who's back before we do that a quick word from our friends at 1-800 flowers in the past waiting until the last minute to order a mother's day bouquet from 1-800 flowers might have worked have worked out fine.
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Okay, Hank, your Who's Back. Speaking of wills, I watched Who's Knives Out this weekend.
It's a good movie. My Who's Back of the Week is Mike Tyson.
Yes. Okay, yes okay yeah i saw that clip so there's been a few clips recently the past few months of mike tyson uh throwing punches working out training he looks faster than any fighter still today uh but it brought me to this question people say like how much money would it take for you to take a punch from mike tyson in his prime how much money would it take you guys to just be his trainer like just to be the guy that has to like potentially get you know have him miss and get hit in the face how much would that cost a hundred thousand dollars a session for me because I I'm not coordinated enough to remember like all the steps and all the moves I got a terrible short-term memory so I would definitely get knocked out in the first session yeah it's the question is actually the same like how much would it take to get punched by Mike Tyson how much would it take to be his trainer because you're gonna get punched unless you have the skills of a trainer if you if you just put us in that role we absolutely would take one to the face and it probably would suck even more because you wouldn't even be really expecting it so it's a lot a lot of money I the one thing with Mike Tyson he is one of those guys who even at the end of his career like you can just talk yourself into if he just catches someone in boxing is that one sport where you can always say to yourself oh man it's like when Conor McGregor fought Floyd Mayweather like well what if he catches him once what if he catches him once Mike Tyson even at the end when he was clearly like done and washed up you're like well if he just catches lennox lennox lewis once here it could be lights out so i would i'd still buy a pay-per-view with mike tyson fighting anyone just so that i could convince myself he'd have that one shot in and it'd be lights out yeah that clip of him when he was training it's almost scarier watching mike tyson when he's in between punches and he's just like bobbing and weaving and moving his huge ass back and shoulders back and forth that's almost more intimidating than the punches because when the punches hit the mitts you can be a shitty boxer but if you make like really good contact with one of those training pads it sounds awesome it's all about the trainer it's about the trainer throwing the pad into the punch as well yeah giving it a little pop.
There you go, champ. It's like a great catcher being able to pop that glove when you throw a 65-mile-an-hour fastball.
Yeah, framing it too a little bit. Yeah, hit that one square on the head.
I think I would rather get my ear bitten off right now by Mike Tyson than take a punch from him. That's actually a funny idea to think about,

like, who are the simps of sports?

The trainer in boxing, the catcher.

Like, who can prop up their man as he's trying to look awesome?

The center.

Yeah, the center.

Just prop them up.

Make them be the king.

Uh-huh.

Yeah, definitely the holdback coach on the sidelines.

Yeah.

The holder in kicking in football? Uh-huh. Definitely.
And the long sna football definitely and the like there's not really a simp simp position basketball caddy on the golf course no simp position in basketball like a really good uh point guard throwing perfect passes to guys like you know cutting to the lane yeah but they're still getting shine for that alley oops though yeah i guess, though? Yeah, I guess they do get shines. But maybe actually...

Centers, caddies, all those other positions are true just simp positions.

Guys who just run picks left and right and don't really roll.

They don't have hands to roll.

The guy that runs out onto the court, he doesn't even have the lid man mop.

He's just got the towel, and he has to wipe down the floor with his hand and a towel in between plays. You know who's a simp? Clint Capella.
Because he runs the pick and roll, but when he runs the pick and roll and actually gets the dunk, it's because someone has given him a great pass. So he kind of is in a no-win situation where either he runs the pick and the person who's running it for shoots and scores and he's the simp, or he rolls and he just catches it right in front of the hoop and dunks.
Right, but my point was more like simps. No one knows, besides David Andrews, you don't know any center's names.
You don't know the caddies' names. There's a lot of, right, but for the most part, you know every basketball basketball player's name there are some positions where it's just like you don't know and you never will know who that guy is yeah i mean there's all simps on the basketball on the basketball court there's like the backup power forward that comes in just to give fouls and his like his teammate fouls somebody but it's his responsibility to hold his hand up be like no that one was me.
Like taking fouls for another man. Yeah, Mark Titus.
Mark Titus is a simp in a basketball game. It's a trillion.
Anyone that can get a trillion simp. Yeah.
Yeah. All right.
PFT, who's your who's back? My who's back of the week is NFL announcing the release date of their schedule release date. So this is one of the best traditions in sports.
It always happens like right after the Masters is over, like this time of year when the NFL comes out. They don't say that they're releasing the schedule, but they do say that they are about to announce when the schedule release date is going to be.
And so today on Sunday, they announced that it was going to take place later on this week with an announcement to come later about when that exact day of when the schedule will be released. I feel like it's usually on a Thursday, which would be great, because then we can break down the whole schedule.
Also huge for this weekend. I don't know.
People are tuning into the news because there's really nothing going on now. We're just kind of stuck.
But Florio did have have a report where and florio is definitely like clued in and talking to the right people that it's basically a zero percent shit not a zero percent chance but like almost a zero percent chance that there's no football this fall and yeah not only that but the nfl is fully planning on having fans as well so it was one of those quiet like hey this seems good what do you look Don't go to me like that, Hank. The NFL is fully planning on having fans as well.
So it was one of those quiet, like, hey, this seems good. What do you look at me like that, Hank? The NFL is speaking it into existence.
It's great. Like, they're just saying we're going full send on this season.
We're going to announce the schedule. There's not going to be any Saturday games because you know what? They're banking on college football existing in the fall too.
So it's a little bit of good news that was buried a little bit. And I agree with the big cat.
It's usually on a Thursday. So part of my take is announcing that the NFL schedule announcement is going to take place on Thursday.
And then we'll break down every single game. Yeah, just speak it into existence, NFL.
If you just keep going on like it's going to happen, I believe you that it's going to happen. My other who's back of the week is The Mountain mountain the mountain from game of thrones is back he set the world record in deadlift on saturday morning he deadlift 1100 pounds sorry 1104 pounds so he beat the world record by i think like uh one kilogram whatever that is that's probably like 10 pounds i don't know did you see that still couldn't beat the hound even with the high ground though true do you see the espn did a um what does that correlate into like random things kind of a reval tweet 4.4 or sorry for jj watts 16 golden retrievers 32 stanley cup trophies but here's the one that i don't get 78989 basketballs.
I feel like I could pick up 789 basketballs. Basketballs weigh nothing.
Basketballs, they weigh more when they're deflated than they do when they're full, right? I don't think that that can physically be possible. Yeah, but I know it's not possible at all, but you know what I'm saying? Like how we were saying on the last show, that the weights that are made out of metal weigh more than the exact same weights that are made out of rubber yes that i agree with a basket a deflated basketball looks a lot heavier than a full basketball but i'm saying 789 basketballs that are fully inflated i feel like if you had asked me before this how many basketballs could you pick up i would have said at least 300 which i can't clearly now because that's like 500 pounds but i don't know that one i think you could do 300 basketballs because that's like 500 pounds.
But I don't know. That one fucked my head.
I think you could do 300 basketballs. It's like 500 pounds.
When you put it in the terms of how much is that basketball that you're holding right now, way, Hank? Nothing. Nothing.
Nothing. Exactly.
Give me a break. 300 of those.
It's crazy. 789 of those, no problem.
You know what? They should actually do these powerlifting sports with the golden retrievers one though like so many more people would watch if you're having bad ratings just like load up clear boxes filled with happy golden retrievers on each side and pick them up although that would probably get what or j yeah have just cloned jj watt a bunch of times and have him uh have him just get picked up by things but yeah it's crazy seeing seeing dude lift 1,100 pounds, and the dude that he passed was a guy named Eddie Hall. And when Eddie Hall set the previous deadlift record, he picked it up and he flexed on the haters and just stood at the top of his lift for like six seconds.
And then he started spontaneously bleeding from his nose, and he passed out. And I think he went home and slept for like 20 hours just from lifting that one thing up.
His heart rate was so off the charts that the doctors thought that their machine was broken. They kept on testing his heart rate and he was just bleeding out of his eyes and his nose.
Yeah. Yeah.
He like contracted. He gave himself a bola from lifting too much of a heavy weight, but it looked like he could have done more.
could have done more good call hank very good uh okay my who's back the week is uh saying we're taking back our fears guys the murder hornet i saw the story everyone's getting freaking out about the murder hornet i think it's because there's just nothing else going on i'm officially done with being scared the murder hornet the murder hornet is some fucking hornet in japan that can like kill a bunch of bees you know who else can kill a bunch of bees me i can kill a bunch of bees i could swat a bunch of bees in one second and everyone's like well it's got spikes and all this shit fuck the murder hornet if i can kill something with a newspaper it's not a problem it's not a problem i'd rather be mike tyson's uh trainer or stuck in a room with one single murder hornet? The murder hornet. I'd fuck the murder hornet up.
I would fuck the murder hornet up. The problem with the murder hornet, this is why I selected the murder hornet.
You didn't select the murder hornet. You just selected a hornet.
That's very different than the murder hornet. Is the murder hornet a hornet? No.
It's not a hornet? Yes, it is. It's a different type of bear.
It's a grizzly bear, black bear. I said a hornet.
You have to specify. I said a hornet.
A single hornet. This is a single hornet.
Therefore, it counts. The murder hornet, the reason why I picked the hornet in the first place is because it was the only one that I just wanted to annoy somebody, right? Like having one hornet probably isn't going to kill you, but nothing's going to piss you off more than having like just not seeing anything coming and just getting stung by a fucking hornet that's the worst that'll ruin your day that'll ruin your day way more than having to deal with like a mountain lion walking past you just picked a regular hornet i picked a what do you say is a type of hornet how about this well then you have to specify the bears too we'd specified bears we specified everything else i thought you said a bear no i think we said grizzly bear black bear no i think this is definitely a single this is a single hornet that could kill you uh but big cat would you rather be mike tyson's trainer or be locked in a room with a single murderous hornet but you don't know where it is when you start when you walk the hornet i would guys hornet! Guys, why are we afraid of a fucking, like, juiced up bee? Get the fuck out of here.
More people die from bee stings every year than hornets. This murder hornet...
This sounds like when you said you would contract corona. Yeah, it does.
Guess what? And I'm fine. I'm fine.
I will face this murder hornet. I'm sick of letting everyone fear porn has become the number one industry in America right now.

It's fucking the coronavirus causing strokes.

And then they're like, hey, guess what?

Maybe it only happens like once every thousand hundred thousand people.

But you should probably check it out.

There could be strokes.

We're all going to die.

Everything's going to there's too much meat.

The oil is there's too much oil.

We're going to burn ourselves with oil.

They'd have the Antarctica shelves fucking fucking disappearing murder hornets are coming fuck everything i'm done letting fear take over my life did the murder hornet the fear is totally justified no it's a murder horn it's it is you know why it's it's not because they'll necessarily fuck you up big cat but if you're a beekeeper it goes it kills your entire hive we've already dealing with bee colony collapse not the beekeepers colony collapse is a real issue and if you if colony collapse continues at the same pace that it's been over the last six months according to the internet fear porn twitter follows that i follow then our entire world is going to blow up so it's it's such a joke man what about the pollen big cat dude people people have just become sick they're sick they just love to just get everyone scared about everything ever i'm sorry i'm the only one that's standing up for bees i'm done with it i'm done with being scared about random things that get posted in a fucking new york times you know article just so that everyone can send it around to each other and be like, oh my God, look at what's happening now. Tomorrow it's going to be a new thing.
I don't care. I'm done being afraid.
I'm taking back fear. You know what's crazy is, you know how we're overdue on that super volcano that exists underneath Yellowstone? We're also way overdue on the article reminding us about how we're overdue on the super volcano underneath yellowstone that's going to be the next one up it's like hey 2020 couldn't get bad enough guess what they also never caught the guy that sent that anthrax out like we're going to have to recycle a lot of these old fear porn stuff that have haven't made their way to the top of the news cycle recently yep terrorists haven't been around for a while we're gonna have to have another one of those you know scare tactics like oh there's terror cells everywhere coming to kill us all i'm surprised we haven't seen an article where it's like you know what the vaccine is eating little babies all this shit it's just it's just ruining all of our brains our brains are becoming diseased rotten fear just things just on top of our shoulders and it's just bullshit i saw some article today where they're like they actually think the coronavirus is mutating so much we won't get a vaccine shut up yes we will i'm also seeing people saying that uh that bill gates is trying to kill everybody with his vaccine that he's created this is how you know things have gotten out of hand i've been on that train going back to our first deep dive with billy football when you're afraid of bill gates when you're afraid of that little nerd that couldn't even make windows 2000 correctly if you think that he's going to be able to murder billions of people using a vaccine now you're the one who's dealing who's trafficking in fear porn i'm done with it i'm done with it i'm saying goodbye to it i'm taking back my life i will not be shucked by any any stupid article that tells me there's one in a billion chance that i'm gonna die from some fucking little bee that's flying around in japan that's it's kill it killed 10 people last year oh wow damn how many people how many people have died because they couldn't get to their epi pen quick enough uh i don't know uh my girl macaulay talking yes lots um all right let's get to our interview we got horace grant talks some awesome mj stories being on the three pete the first three pete for the bulls playing on the magic the lakers he has so much history great interview with him before we do that though a word from our friends at ButcherBox when it comes to meat.

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okay we now welcome on a very special guest it is four-time NBA champion Horace Grant uh Horace thank you for joining us it's everyone's obviously talking about the last dance we want to talk about your entire career but let's start there and what has it been like to watch to go back in time and see all this stuff, see a young Horace Grant, see all of the stories be retold on a national stage? Well, looking back on it, reminiscing, if you will, kind of making me wish I was 22, 23 again. You know, it was some great years.
We had a fun time, a great run there in Chicago. But just the camaraderie that we had as a team, the confidence that we had as a team when we got out there on the floor.
So you've been watching the series. Is there anything that's, that's been on so far? I know we're only what four episodes in right now.
I assume you've probably seen the whole thing. Is that right? Yeah.
I've seen all of the, all the episodes. Well, I got the, the pre copies.
So I've seen most of it. Yeah.
Gotcha. Is there anything so far in the series that you've seen that you think was told in a different way than you remembered experiencing it at the time? The first four episodes, not really.
Not anything in particular. I didn't know that Doug and Michael got alongael got along that well but uh doug tallett was our uh coach for about a year year and a half i didn't know they got along that well but uh the documentary shows that they were best friends well i i actually there's a good good uh spot to bring it up because i know five and six we're going to run this on monday after five and six and i saw at least the uh clip that espn put out about five and six they're addressing the jordan rules book the famous book that i should go out and read uh which does have a part about how you know mj doesn't you know doesn't go back to chicago for a practice and blows doug collins off christmas eve but mj uh accuses you obviously of being one of the sources for the Jordan rules book.
Are you, have you guys had a conversation about that since, you know, he's accused you of that? Have you talked it through? Cause from my perspective, that was a book that had to be written by a lot of people talking and you might've been one of them, but there had to be a lot of people who were speaking on that.

Guys, that is so untrue.

That is just like a blank, just a blank lie.

Sam Smith quoted myself, Bill Cartwright, John Paxson,

and a whole bunch of others in that

book. And what he quoted us is what we said.
And for MJ to say I was the source of this book, that's a lie. That's a downright lie.
And he knows that. And, you know, come to think of it,

Sam Smith

spent more time with Bill, Pax, Tex Winter, Johnny Bach, even MJ. He spent time with MJ, played golf a few times with MJ, was in MJ room.

So I don't know where that I was the source behind the book.

That's a straight up lie.

So let me ask you this as a follow up, because it's fascinating.

A lot of times we're watching this and everyone's saying, well, could you imagine social media error?

Like what would it would look like if we knew some of these things are going on?

But the Sam Smith book kind of was what like the social media error is now in that we got an inside look of a team and some of the dirty stuff and some of the behind the scenes stuff. And it was a big, big deal.
Did it change the locker room at all? Did you feel your relationship change with Michael at all after that book comes out? Well, Mike and I really didn't have a great relationship. We respected each other as teammates in terms of us having one goal, and that one goal was to win championship.
We didn't hang out that much off the court. He had his set of friends.
I had my set of friends. You know, only person I really hung out with was, you know, Scotty.
I mean, we were at places together all the time. So as far as changing, I think you have to ask MJ that question because, you know, we won't close at all.
Right. During that, especially when that book came out.
Right. Did you reach out to him when it came out and he said all this stuff about you? You try to clear the air up or did you know that he was just saying that knowing it wasn't true because, you know, he had his ulterior motives or he wanted to explain away some parts of it i mean i have i've never read the book i don't think it's good for the team is it good yeah kudos to sam kudos to sam i i don't know if anybody on the team read it either but um during that time but um i think mj already had his mind made up in terms of who he thought the source was for Sam to write their book.
And, you know, like I said, you know, MJ and I never saw eye on a whole bunch of things. And maybe he wanted to that I was the guy so my teammates can look at me in a different way, but I'm the type of guy that if you come at me the wrong way, it's not going to happen.
No, it's not going to happen. I'm cut from a different call.
You know, I'm going to say as a man what I have to say, and then we can go from there. But, no, I didn't have anything in terms of the sensitivity from that locker room going into Sam's book.
No, I did not. So knowing that you guys weren't the best of friends, as you just said, and I think a lot of people know, but I think MJ always had respect for you.
And how did you gain that respect? Because we hear the stories all the time about how he would test all of his teammates. And you hear stories about some teammates getting traded or being gone because they couldn't stand up for themselves when they were being tested.

Was there a moment in time?

Because I know even going back, like when you got drafted,

he didn't want Jerry Krause to draft you.

So he called you dummy, right, basically your first year.

Well, he called me a whole bunch of things my first year. And believe me, I called him a whole bunch of things, too, as a rookie.
You know, when you come into a situation like that and you know that, you know, the star player on that team didn't want you, you got a chip on your shoulder.

You got something to prove.

And, you know, I worked my butt off.

I mean, my mentor was Charles Oakley.

Man, I mean, what a great human being when I say that, and I say that sincerely.

He taught me so much, especially in practice.

He used to kick my butt, you know, over 60, 80 percent of the time in practice but i learned from him and um and i just kept working man and and you know i guess you can say the rest is his yeah was there a moment because i feel like charles oakley might even be a guy where it's harder to gain his respect in a sense than m because Oakley was a tough dude, still is a tough dude.

Was there a moment in practice when you were like, I don't know if I can hang with this guy? Man, that was almost every day. I mean, in terms of the physicality, the pushing, the shoving, you know, he – you know, I could have laid down.
But I know that being around Oak, all those moments that I couldn't quit.

I had to stand up and do whatever I had to do to show him that I could earn his respect.

One of the best parts of the documentary so far was your reaction to that Piston series

where they walked off the court, didn't shake your hand.

I think you called them little bitches.

Have you heard from anybody on the Pistons about that? Well, you know, the ironic thing about that was I never knew what MJ said about the Pistons. I guess after game three, you know, saying they didn't deserve to be champion.
They messed the game up and all of that. If I had known that, I don't think I would have called them bitches.
I would have said crybabies. But to answer your question, I talked to Isaiah Thomas.
And we had a great, great conversation, man. And I see Isaiah all the time at All Star Weekend.
I mean, we have great conversations. So we had a great conversation about everything, and it's cool.
I just put it that way. That moment where you guys beat the Pistons and knowing everything that had come before that, like I actually was kind of shocked they didn't go deeper into the migraine game, the Scottie migraine game, knowing that you were so close with Scottie.
what was Michael's reaction to that? Because you can still see it on his face that he doesn't really believe that Scotty had a migraine. And that probably speaks to his psychopath competitiveness where he's like, nothing could ever stop me.
When that happens, are you right after the game, are you like, yes, Scotty clearly had a migraine? Or do you side with MJ a little bit and be like, it's crazy he wasn't able to compete in game seven? Listen, when you have migraines, and I had a couple migraines. When you have migraines, man, you can, it's blurry, you can't see, the noise is crazy.
There's no way, Scotty, could have functioned out there with those migraines. And he did have a migraine, man.
And for us, I mean, for the people who second guess that, I mean, I don't know if you can say, you know, they can kiss my ass. You know, that's crazy, man.
And I saw when they asked MJ about that, and he licked his lip and smirked a little bit, the dude that was your sidekick, that was your second in command, he had a migraine. That's my thing.
So I want to move on to the rest of your career besides a three-peat,

but I was wondering, like, what's the moment in the three-peat

that sticks out the most to you,

or what series sticks out the most to you?

Obviously, my favorite, you know, Horace Grant moment is the Suns,

the block on KJ, the extra pass to Paxton in the possession before.

But when you think back, like what's that moment for you? Well, that moment, man, I would have to say that was a great moment, me personally. But as a team, I would have to say the Portland series.
when, you know, the starters, we weren't up to par,

and Phil took us out. I think he just kept scouting.
I took me and MJ out and put the bench in. And the bench brought us all the way back.
I think that was one of my proudest moments because it was teamwork. I mean, it just proves to you in practice, I mean, the first guy is important.
The number 12 guy is important because we pushed each other in practice. And when that time came for us, for our teammates to come in and carry us, from Stacey King, Scott Williams, Bobby Hanson, all the guys came in and did their job.
Would you say that that moment is better than when Puff Daddy dropped your name and said, I'm trying to get my hands on some Grants like Horace and all about the Benjamins? Well, I would say the Bulls, but I still love getting my hands on the Grand Play artist.

That's got to be like a surreal moment, right?

It's like Puff Daddy, he was like the world's biggest rapper at the time, just name checks you in his biggest song. That's some serious clout.
Hey, when the super rappers like Puff Daddy, P. Daddy,

drops your name in one of his songs, you made it. Yeah.
Yeah. Did you get any residuals off that? You ever like, hey, Puff Daddy, how about you throw me a couple of grants? Shit, I'm still waiting for the check, man.
So I'm curious, the 94 team, the that michael goes and plays baseball great team 55 wins all-time series against the knicks is that you know was that series because you guys are trying to prove something was that series the hardest series you played in was that series you know the most you've ever wanted something because that you know the there's so many famous moments from it but that series to me like you and scotty were like we gotta prove something here we're trying to go for a four-peat it was like being out in the desert and you walk for hours without water and you want that water that's how bad not just me and scotty but myself bj pete myers all of us on that team wanted that championship so badly because during that time with mj of course he deserved all the the accolades and the attention all. He deserved it because he was our leader and our best player.
But we were called the Jordanaires. And that was okay.
But still, we knew that we had something to prove, not just to ourselves, but to basically the whole world that we were capable of definitely being professional and winning the championship. Do you think Scottie fouled Hubert Davis? No chance.
There's no chance in hell that Hubert Davis, no disrespect to Hubert, But there is no way that Scottie Pippen foul Hubert Davis. That series actually could be its own 30 for 30 because it had the Scottie sitting out, Tony Kukoc hitting the game winner.
It had a fight that basically changed the rules of fighting in the NBA. It had that Hubert Davis thing.
It had the Ewing dunk, Pippen on Ewing. Like, it had everything.
Ooh. I mean, if someone wanted to make a 30 for 30, that would be the series, man.
I mean, in terms of Pippen dunking on Ewing, the fight, as you said, that non-foul, you know, that was one of the toughest, toughest situations I've ever been in, seeing that so-called foul. So the end of that game when Tony Kukoc gets the last shot and Scotty says, take me out of the game, you're good friends with Scottie Pippen.
To see him do something like that during a game where, I mean, everybody on the outside was talking about it. If it happened now, Skip Bayless wouldn't shut up about it for probably three months.
At the time, you're his good friend. After that game's over, do you talk to him? You're like, hey, Scottie, what the hell is going on? Why'd you do that? Or did you have his back? Oh, we had some conversation, man.
And a question to the public out there. Scotty's our best player and the MVP candidate.
I mean, a candidate. If Michael Jordan, if MJ was on that team, would Phil Jackson give Scotty the ball? I mean, would Scotty say, Scotty, okay, we're going to run this play for you? No, probably not.
Probably not. He might say Scotty might be open, and if he's open, you can pass it.
But I think, yeah, he'd give the ball to Jordan. Exactly.
But saying that, there's no excuse for Pip to sit down like that. There was no excuse.
But we know in the heat of the battle, things happen. And we addressed it as a team, as a team after the game.
And the PIP apologized immensely for not getting out there on that court with his team.

And we let it go.

We let it go because we knew and he knew that he was in the wrong.

What I've always wondered from that play, in the huddle,

did anyone mention that you had run that play earlier in the year, the exact play for a game winner? Cause that feels like that would have been the moment. Like, Hey dude, it worked before Scotty to coach game winner.
See, we didn't, we didn't think about that. Yeah.
I mean, it's 25 years later. So it's for me to say it right hey but but but the thing is that we won the game and and Phil was a genius and I'm pretty sure if Scotty could relive that moment he would have been out there throwing Tony the ball okay so that's that's a good segue to Phil because if you don't win win that game phil is just ripped apart for having someone other than scotty pippen take that shot you you obviously you played for phil with the bulls and the lakers uh what is it about phil jackson's coaching style that keeps teams together and we see all this stuff with dennis robman and having them all work together what does he do that's different than the other coaches you've had in your in your career man for for a guy to um I want to say control but have all these egos in check I mean a freaking genius he would let you

be all these egos in check. I mean, a freaking genius.
He would let you be your own person, have your own personality. You can go out and party.
You can do whatever you want to do. But it has to be in the confine, in the concept of when you step on that court court, you have to play your role and do your job and play that role well.
And that's what he did. He never tried to put us in a box or anything of that nature.
One thing about that Bulls run that you guys had is there were a lot of really good defensive players on those teams, really good defensive players and it seems to me like getting everybody to buy in and keep playing tough defense even when you're going for a four-peat you know after you've had a three-peat and when you're in LA having those great teams and keeping them playing at a high level defensively it takes some good motivational skills as a coach to be able to encourage that during the year so was it like a

was it a fear thing did you know like if I if I don't uh you know go hard on defense this game I might you know see my minutes reduced or was it more about accountability to you know Jordan and and Pippen who were also good defensive players well we we know uh during those championship years that in order to be successful and win championships, you have to play defense. You have to stop the other team from scoring.
And we were so in tune with each other that when MJ or Scottie went for a steal and they didn't get it. They knew I had their back.
And, and say, if I didn't, if I slipped up, I know Bill Cartwright was back there. He had my back.
So we had that, that continuity with each other out there and that confidence with each other.

And the late and great Johnny Bach was a tremendous defensive-minded coach, man. Yeah.
So your career is so fascinating to me because you've been part of some of the most interesting teams in NBA history. You were part of the Ascent of Jordan, the Three Peet Bow You're part of the Penny Shaq Magic and then the Shaq Kobe Lakers.
So can I play a little what if with you because I feel like you're the best person to answer some of these. Absolutely, guys.
What if Nick Anderson makes a free throw in game one against the Rockets? That would be my fourth championship. You think so? Really? You think you win that game, well, you win that game, and you guys then keep the confidence rolling? We win that game.
Our confidence will be here. And then we just carry over with that young team that we had with Shaq, Penny, Nick, and Dennis Scott, very young guys at that particular time.
And you get a young team confidence, man, we wouldn't have known that we didn't supposed to beat the great Elijah Wan and Clyde Drexler. We wouldn't have known that.
We would just have the confidence to go out there and play. Okay.
So staying on the magic, what if Penny and Shaq get along and figure out a way to get along? I would say at least two or three championships. I mean, people just, they forgot about Penny Hardaway.
6'7", 6'8", like a Magic Johnson who can shoot the ball, very athletic. So, I mean, his IQ was off the chart when it came to basketball.
You also played with three of the greatest shoe guys in the NFL. So you played with Jordan.
You played with Penny, who had some of the best shoes of the entire 90s. Then you played out with Kobe and Shaq at the same time.
Did you ever wear your teammates? Did you wear another man's shoes on the court? Well, back in that time, you didn't make that much money. And if you got a shoe deal, I don't care what it was, you were going to wear that particular shoe.
I got you. Even if it was $10,000 or $20,000, you were going to wear that particular brand.
So in the documentary, I want to get back to that a little bit because it's been really fascinating. Like watching it for the first time, I'm sure you saw it a while ago.
But in the first couple episodes and they're kind of going to carry this on they have to jerry kraus has been the villain of the series so far was it ever awkward having um having this guy around and everyone is just clowning him the entire time but technically he's kind of your boss did that ever get uncomfortable you? You know, I'm from the South, and you always would talk to respect people. And a lot of guys just didn't see him as the boss.
He was our boss. And a lot of times I agree with a lot of things that Jerry Krause did.
But for me, saying to Jerry, you crumbs and you this and that, that would have never come out of my mouth to Jerry Krause. No, because he was the GM.
And, you know, I can't speak for anybody else, but none of that ever ever ever came out of my mouth how much of that is because he stood tall drafting you instead of the guy that you know uh dean smith and michael jordan wanted wanted to draft and and basically said no this is my draft pick it's Horace Grant well I mean a lot of people don't know the story um and I won't be uh long-winded on it um it was to the last minute um for some reason uh Dean Smith and maybe Michael or whoever kind of convinced Krause to draft Joe Wolf at the time. And I know Joe Wolf.
But Doug Collins and the rest of the coaching staff said, no, Horace Grant is our guy. So I've been told, I was told that Mr.
Reinsdorf and Jerry Krause went out and Mr. Reinsdorf said to Jerry Krause, look, if you draft Joe Wolfe, basically that's on you.
Everybody in that room want Horace Grant. So therefore, Jerry Krause was the GM, but I have to give a lot of, a lot of respect to Jerry Ryan's door for kind of hitting the, you know, this is going to be a miss or a hit for you.
So that's the story. Yeah.
Do you ever think that you were underestimated at times because you were the Rexpex guy? Well, when you play with two superstars like, uh, uh, Scotty and Michael, you know, you're not going to get the, the glory, if you will. Um, if you, you, you, you feel that you deserve, but give credit to Phil Jackson just letting me

know how important I was to the team. He relaxed everything, guys.
I'm telling you. He relaxed everything.
Yeah. I read that you had the rec specs at the starting career, which I love.
It's an awesome look. It's a sick look.

And you continued to wear them even after you got LASIK eye surgery. You were trying to be like an inspiration.
Was there any weird adjustment period after you got that surgery where you're still wearing the goggles but your eyes work? No, it wasn't a big adjustment at all. I mean, when you have grandparents and parents coming up to you saying that it's because of you that my kids or my grandkids don't get bullied anymore for wearing respect, man, I mean, that was it in itself in terms of me keeping to wear those.
And I just took the correct lenses out. But it was no big adjustment.
I got a couple more what ifs for you. What if MJ doesn't play baseball? If MJ didn't play baseball, I still would make that decision based on where I can get the best deal.
because, you know, I was 27. That's probably going to be my last big contract.
Yeah. What do you, if he, if he plays that four Pete year, do the bulls win four in a row and like, how does that change everything? And actually what I really want to know is, cause I'm sure we're going to get this in a documentary, how surprised were you when he decided that he was going to walk away? Or did you see it coming? Man, I didn't see that coming at all.
I mean, when you – I mean, after winning three championships, I mean, we're ready to defend what is ours. And then when he walks away, and I'm like, wow.
I mean, I don't know if he was just tired or wanted to have a challenge in something else. But when he walked away, we were like, oh, wow.
Okay. Now we knew as a team what we had to do,

we had to just work a little harder to try to get that championship.

Yeah.

We play this game with every guest that we have.

It's called headline grab where we say something and then you give us something and we're going to make a headline

and get some big news out of it.

So I'll rephrase Big Cat's question.

How much money in debt was Michael Jordan from gambling when David Stern asked him to take a year off? Hey, that's something. See, I was so oblivious to a whole bunch of things, guys.
I'm telling you. Because I was about playing basketball, partying, and going home.
That was me. That was me.
So I don't know if David Stern told him to take a year off. I just know MJ loved to gamble.
That's what – I mean, even on luggage, even on, you know, what color you think that next car going to be coming down the street so uh in terms of that i don't know if that caused his retirement or not would you gamble with him would you gamble with him on the plane and everything play cards oh hell yeah we did uh myself kirk oak, Pete, I mean, a whole bunch of us were gambling.

How would you do?

What would you say?

Are you up or down to MJ in your life gambling?

Well, I can only say one thing, that he ran out of cash one night.

He didn't have enough cash on him.

And, of course, you know, when you don't have enough cash, you know, we loan each other money. And I think I loaned him about $2,000.
And of course, I was talking trash every time I gave him about 400, 500. And then he got he was so pissed that the next day he brought $2,000 worth of crispy $100 bills.
Fact. I got one last what if for you.
What happens if you pick up the phone when Shaq calls you before he goes to the Lakers? I will beg him. I will beg him.
I will get on my knees and beg him, please stay. Please stay.
I will beg him. That's whatever.
The story goes, right? Like he's deciding and he called you and you missed the call and you never called him back and, and the next thing you know, he's a Laker? Yes.

He called me, I think, two or three times.

Oh.

And, yeah, I will never forget this, man.

If I just hadn't picked up the phone, maybe things would have been different.

And I did not pick up the phone.

And, man, when I heard that he signed with the Lakers,

I drove from Florida to my mother's house in Georgia. And I stayed there for about two weeks and just depressed as shit, man.
It was like – it's like, you know, boxing Mike Tyson. He hit you in the gut.
Yeah. That's how I felt at that particular time.
All you had to do was pick up. Shaq was probably like, I really want to stay with the Magic, but I need one person to tell me to stay.
And you just didn't pick up your phone. And that's why I pick up my phone all the time now.
You'd be really good in the Blank of the Year contest. Yeah, we might have to get you in the match.
That's such a great story, though, that you're sitting there and you just didn't call him back, and the next thing you know, he's on the Lakers. You're like, oh, shit, probably should have returned that phone call.
Exactly, man. I'm going to give you a pick one from these three guys.
If you're down one score, you're down by one point, okay, with half a second left on the clock, who do you want with the ball in their hands putting that shot up?

I'm going to give you three options.

Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, or Shaq gets eight free throws.

Holy shit.

And we're down by one?

Down by one.

He's just got to make two of them.

Shit.

Man, I'm... It's funny that this is such a tough question.
Hold on, man. Hey, listen.
Because I played with Kobe and I seen with... I would give that ball to MJ.
I would give that ball to MJ because he had made me with me being there

for seven years and I've seen the

shots that he made.

But that is a very good question, guys.

That was a very good question.

What about Robert Ori? What if I put his name in there?

Big shot, Bob.

I would have to say

because

many big shots that he

made

Thank you. I would have to say Because of many big shots That he made I would have the ball In Michael or Kobe hand penetrating And then kicking the big shot Rob Or have some weird bank off the backboard Off the side of the rim ball finds its way to him, and nobody is within five feet of him.

Hey, that's the look of Robert Ory, man. Yep.

With seven championships.

So I have another headline grab for you.

The Bulls versus your three-peat Bulls versus the Warriors

with Kevin Durant.

Seven-game series. Everyone's at their peak, so everyone's at their physical peak.
I would say the Bulls in six. I love it.
Okay, nice. Never gone to a seven-game in the finals.
No, right. Being with the Bulls, we don't believe in seven games in the finals.
What about against the Heat with Dwayne Wade and LeBron? Would you guard LeBron? Scotty would probably guard LeBron. Yeah, I would probably be on Chris Bosh.
Yep. Yeah, probably on Bosh.
But I still would say the Bulls in maybe five or six. Oh, five.
And that's – yeah. Yeah.
Listen, man. When you got a Michael Jordan and a Scottie Pippen in their prime and a Horace Grant.
There you go. I mean – Big three.
Our mentality was, it wasn't that how many games it was going to take, but we were going to kick your ass. Seriously.
I mean, this is not being overconfident, but, man. And plus, we could adjust to rules.
I don't know if this generation could adjust to the rules back in the 80s and 90s, how physical it was. Yeah.
If they have the refs from the 90s, I think you guys sweep them. Maybe gentlemen sweep.
Yes. But if they have – I don't know if it's like Adam Silver getting on the phone and telling people, okay, we need to make this a series.
We got to bring some money in. Wait, were you

on that Lakers team that

David Stern gave that series away from

the Kings to you guys?

No. No, I was

in Orlando.

That was bullshit.

I just want that on the record. I have two last questions

for you, Horace. This has been great.

The first is when you

left and went to the Magic and then you

beat the Bulls with

the year that MJ comes back

Thank you. for you, Horace.
This has been great. The first is when you left and went to the Magic, and then you beat the Bulls with the year that MJ comes back from baseball, you know, only plays 18 games or whatever, and then you get carried off on the court.
Do you think that was kind of an awkward move? Like, you made fun of the Pistons for ducking the handshakes. You got carried off on shoulders in the second round.
I told Shaqq i no don't do it brother no i don't want he was like man get no and i quote shaq you better get your ass up here seriously and i mean no i mean that wasn't me i mean i don't do things like that man I mean you can ask anybody who knows I don't do that but then you have Phil Jackson talking I mean and I love Phil to this very day and I quote Phil I am going to make you beat us I'm going to keep you I'm going to leave you open I'm going to make you beat us. I'm going to keep you – I'm going to leave you open.
I'm going to make you beat us. And you were awesome in that series.
Yeah, you did it. So you deserve to get carried off.
No, carried off. I would have loved to walk off and talk shit to Scotty later.
All right, so my last question, and this is a hilarious thing to look back on, but I just need confirmation this is 100% true. You once tried to skip practice because Scottie Pippen's cat died and you were mourning the cat.
Hey story but uh the the thing behind that i was still drunk from the night before yeah and so that's that's you're really emotional about that cat you really were in your feels about that cat listen hey when you have a quite a few drinks and still hung over, you still get emotional about certain things. It was a special cat.
It was a great cat. And the great part about cats is they have nine times they can die and you can just find practices.
I mentioned the book for everyone listening on Monday's show, Blood on the Horns, but it was like Scotty called in and was like,

hey, my cat died.

I'm not going to be in practice today.

And 15 minutes later, you called in.

You're like, hey, Scotty's cat died.

I'm not going to be in practice today.

Hey, we came in together in 1987.

So that was my, they still my man.

That's friendship.

That's deep friendship to be like,

I'll come and sit and be bros with you when your cat dies. Absolutely.
I mean, the cat, I mean, we had a bond. We had a great bond, man.
What was the cat's name? I don't dare. I knew you wouldn't have that.
Oh, man. I got one more thing for you.

You're wearing your Bulls polo shirt right now.

I got to wonder, you look at that logo from your perspective right now.

Have you ever noticed that if the Bulls logo is upside down,

it's a robot having sex with a crab?

Look at it.

A thick crab, too.

Yeah, look at it upside down.

He's dummy thick Damn Yeah That's weird That's weird as shit Yeah It's also the only Yeah it's the only logo In the NBA that's never changed I think they want to keep it that way Well okay Just something to think about Now you're Now you're never going to look at the same again.

Hey, that's nothing wrong with a little safe

sex.

Well, Horace, thank you so

much. We appreciate it, man.
Four-time

NBA champion. Some unreal

teams that you played on.

This has been a ton of fun. Thanks, man.

Alright, guys. See ya.
Alright.

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Okay, let's get some segments. We have first up, a stay woke for Kim Jong-un.
Kim Jong-un, he's back. This also could have qualified as a who's back of the week because I guess there were many reports that he had died uh that he was in hiding he had a botched heart surgery that sort of thing but bottom line was he disappeared for three weeks and people speculated he died now he's back uh and they said that he spent his time with 20 women he has like his own harem that travels with him uh to service dear leader uh but there is a great conspiracy theory on reddit that said that his absence just so happened to coincide with the release of the new final fantasy game so people are thinking hey maybe kim jong-un just went to his like mountainside gaming lair filled with hookers and mountain dew and snacks and shit and just chill it out for three weeks and beat Final Fantasy and then came back.
So that would actually be a great way to spend three weeks, though. Yes, absolutely.
So do we think he's actually back, or is this an old picture of him? It could be one of those Dave situations where you replace your president with just some random actor on the street. Right.
I would imagine that he probably has at least a half dozen clones of his,

like actual clones that have been kept in some weird farm

just in case that he does die.

It's weird because I was reading about it,

and I guess he missed his grandfather's birthday,

and that's like a big holiday in North Korea.

So that was why he initially, everyone was like, where the fuck is he?

Now I think I was looking at the pictures.

I don't buy it.

I don't buy that to him.

I think it's just he looks kind of chunkier too.

So either he's been playing Final Fantasy and eating Cheetos and Doritos

every single day, which could be true, or it's just a fake Kim Jong-un.

Yeah, it could be a fake.

That is a big-time gamer move, though, is just skipping your grandfather's birthday because you don't care about it yeah well it's in the storyline it's yeah i mean you're supposed to i guess it's obviously his deceased grandfather because i don't think you can uh in north korea if you're in that like lineage if you're still alive you're the boss so oh that's very true yeah so but he yeah it's a big national holiday i don't know either way uh kim jong on i'm not buying it i think he's dead i'm i'm saying on on firmly on the side of he's dead okay i want to i'm firmly on the side of he's alive just in case he is alive i don't want him thinking that i was hating on him i don't want to be hating on him i don't want to be strapped to a wall and blown up with an artillery shell. Why is it hating on him to say he's dead? I am consistently in favor of sucking up to any sort of dictator, just in case they turn on me one day.
All right. I'm saying, similar to my who's back, fuck Kim Jong-un.
Boom. Okay.
Maybe he's just been watching Outer Banks. What else came out around April 10th? Ozarks, season three.
He's been binging on that, yeah. He's a big Marty fan.
He thinks he's looking for a Marty to open up a casino in Missouri, for sure. All right, let's do our Mount Flushmore before we get Billy on to do Shark Tank Berserker Protein.
What is he doing? He's pitching you guys his product. Okay.
He's trying to develop. God knows what that's going to look like.
All right, Mount Flushmore. So we're doing the Mount Flushmore of sports.
Is that right? That we would play? Sports activities that you would not want to try.

So it's the Mount Rushmore of sporting activities you wouldn't want to try.

Mount Rushmore of sporting activities.

Okay, pretty much Mount Rushmore sports.

Kind of one and the same.

But yeah, to actually play.

So for example, stepping into the ring with Mike Tyson.

Yes, yes, to actually play.

Okay, so Hank, you have the first pick why don't you start water polo damn that's a great pick had it had it had it like why don't why let's play keep away while we try to drown each other no thanks treading water the whole time you got to be dealing with the worst cramps in the world the worst I I mean, that was honestly my number one as well, Hank, because it is just – I can't imagine just having people just grab you, try to hold you underwater, try to steal the ball. Like, that sucks so much.
It's basically taking what should be a fun, like, let's just throw the ball around in the pool and then making it insanely difficult. Well, the whole game was just started by – And at its best, it's basically handball.
Yeah. The game was just started by people who like to play in a pool.
That's the maximum. And then just went too hard with it.
Yeah. And they're like, yeah, let's all get together and do this on Sunday.
Also, never trust a game that Stanford or Cal are good at. Like, that's just a rule.
That's just a rule in life if they're good at something that means

that it's not a real game and it doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever how you can get dehydrated

when you're playing in water yeah well yeah i mean i would just drink it i just drink the

yeah exactly just drink it get a belly full of that shit uh all right pft your first pick

my first pick is going to be uh being a matador okay. Bullfighting.
Although that's kind of rigged on the matador side. Those guys have so much.
They fucked that bull up so much beforehand. They got swag.
Well, they get the weapon, so you're allowed to stab the bull. And, yeah, some of the bulls are a little bit doped up or whatever, but still I know that I would just get absolutely absolutely gored.
Once a year, you get a series of pictures that comes out of a matador that really didn't take his job very seriously that day, and the horn always ends up his butthole. That, to me, seems like it would be a bad day at the office.
Okay, I will go with triathlon. Fuck the triathlon or whatever it is.

Is that the same as Iron Man?

Yeah, Iron Man is a type of triathlon.

Right.

By you taking triathlon, you took Murder Hornet.

No, I'm fine.

We can keep Iron Man on there.

I just didn't know the difference.

So having to do anything in the triathlon on its own would suck.

Having to do it all consecutively. Like, isn't it the swim in mile? Something like that, yeah.
That's a long ways to swim. That's so long.
And then you have to get out of there and just bike forever and then run a marathon. Fuck the triathlon.
That is such a try-hard move to do a triathlon. And then my number two is MMAma i mean yep getting knocked out but even more than that like getting tapped out just only bad outcomes if you if if we ever had to to be in the mma ring like that would just be so emasculating it would it would be kind of funny though to step into the ring and just have a competition to see who could lose the fastest in the least amount of pain possible like because there's there would be a strategy to doing that yeah yeah just like i'm just immediately start hitting the ground like a donkey kong like yep i'm already out before the game starts tapped okay um my second is going to be i'm gonna go with the luge losing would be tough because that on my list just you you crash going 75 miles an hour on the very first turn.
Also, no teammates. But you don't have to do anything.
Yeah, but no teammates, too. You scared.
That's the only thing. With your body weight, you think that you could get on a lose and survive a single turn? Yeah.
The question is, PFT, do you think... Have you ever been sledding? I have.
That's a good point. Same thing.
the question is pft do you think have you ever been sledding i have a good point same thing the skeleton is maybe worse though true because you're going head first yeah that sucks i almost feel like it'd be easier to steer the skeleton because it is we've all done that thing on the sled where you go head first and you can steer it It's easier to steer it that way on a sled than it is if you're laying

on your back and you've got to open all that shit.

If you fuck up, though, head first. Feel the rhythm, feel the

rhyme. That's bobsled, which would be fun

because you've got a teammate. Yeah, you've got bros

to hang out with and chill with you. Isn't it luge just

one-man bobsled? Yeah,

but that's the point. It sucks to

play it by yourself. And you're

also not in a car. There's not even an ox

cord you can plug in. You're just laying on your back and just going over a cliff yeah um all right hank you have two tour de france so cycling yep cycling the tour de france yeah but that one that one i think cycling like i think the thing with cycling and marathoners is like there's a lot of people and when you like I don't think it's like a hard old move to run a marathon or like do a bike race like raise money for charity like that's all good stuff but if you're doing it as your professional sport yeah right that's what I'm saying that's what I'm saying I think like I think like people that run marathons get offended or people that like like Peloton or like whatever cycle for exercise is one thing but like if your profession is just doing the tour de france or like that's the only that's that's the only biking one that i can even think of like if you're a professional biker what else even is there so apparently in europe biking is one of the major sports over there they're just they just shut down city roads like three times a week and just have bicycle races go by.
That's crazy. Can you imagine that type of society?

No. there they're just they just shut down city roads like three times a week and just have bicycle races go by that's crazy yeah you imagine that type of society no i'm glad we told king george to go fuck himself because i would not want to i would not want to have if my street gets shut down for a parade like once a year i get upset imagine not being able to go to work because you've got 50 italians wearing tight shorts driving by on on their bikes would suck uh your third hank my i mean we talked about it earlier and for all the reasons that we talked about earlier the strongman olympics because if you get to the peak of your profession you're bleeding out of your brain and your heart breaks the monitors yes so i got no interest in that yeah big time weightlifting Just constantly being in pain.
Right. Like best case scenario, you break a record and then you basically die.
Did you look at the Instagram comments on the ESPN video clip of the deadlift? It was great. Were they critiquing them? They're like, not good form? Even this dude at the top of his game was like, no, that's an elephant bar, and he's wearing wrist straps, and this is a strong man, not an actual competition.
I love it. But they had a world record holder, or former world record holder there, watching his form, observing the entire thing, so it's a legit world record.
But because it didn't take place in the one competition they had per year, they're like, no, this doesn't count. I love it.
I love it. That's just the theme of every – I mean, it's a Twitch chat.
Every Twitch chat has every expert that's ever played that sport in it. Mm-hmm.
All right, PFT, your third pick? My next one – my third pick is going to be being a catcher for an inning or for a whole game. Just being a catcher in Major League Baseball would absolutely suck.
Oh, I would like it. You would get just torn up by curveballs, splitters.
You'd take at least three sinkers to the nuts over the course of an inning, I would imagine. But you'd still be a baseball player.
Yeah, but you would be a baseball player. Yeah, you could say that you were a baseball player.
I'm saying as far as the event goes, it would be tough afterwards. You'd be sore as shit.
You'd get hit in the face a few times. It'd be tough to get through.
Yeah, but at least the thing with baseball that I was playing the position I would get with my ADHD, I'd get bored. Pitching and catching, you'd at least have control of what's going on in the game.
You can, by without anyone else like you can kind of control like what's going to happen all the other things you're just standing so scary though to have like 99 miles an hour coming at you yeah that's the rush yeah that's why you play the game and i think i feel still still feel like especially like baseball because baseball is so hard to get to you could if you say you had a cup of coffee in the majors, that's, like, a real thing. That's kind of a cool thing, like, flex to have on people.
Even people who had, like, two at-bats, like, yeah, but I made the majors. That's like, wow, that's pretty impressive.
And, like, you're calling the shots and the pitcher is throwing it exactly where you want. Like, you're the puppeteer behind the entire game.
Also, you have Joe West breathing on you. There's, like, jowls bumping off your shoulder.
Yeah. Okay.
Although your knees, the one thing is your knees, dude, you're fucked. Yeah.
For life. All right.
I have two left. I will go with rock climbing.
Fuck that. I mean, the free solo guys, that's insane.
I'd die instantly. And the strength yeah i mean the abs i'd have sick abs i'd have that fucking v the dick v going the uh you have some nice pictures on instagram too yeah like day at the office or sitting on top of a rock holding your arms out yeah and then um gymnastics gymnastics.
Gymnastics, like, what's – you basically get shine, what, once every four years?

And have you ever watched gymnastics?

I'd break every bone in my body after the first thing. I don't think there's one thing I could do in gymnastics that wouldn't just be catastrophic injury instantly.

Probably the trampoline.

No, dude. Because we've all fucked around on trampolines as a child.
Dude, but you have to do like crazy you would definitely tear your ACL or Achilles like think about all the flip you have to do all kinds of shit on the trampoline it's crazy what about the balance bar balance bar I would fall off of instantly pommel horse'd fuck my nuts up. The floor exercises would be torn Achilles, knee, ankle, everything.
Ring bars. Rings would be disaster.
Rings you would just let go of and fall down, though. That wouldn't be too bad.
Rings, you'd tear your bicep. Try as hard as you can.
Yeah, tear everything in your body. Fuck gymnastics.
That thing is, gymnastics, gymnasts are impressive, but I don't understand it at all. My last one is going to be rodeo cowboy.
Rodeo-er. It's like your first one.
Yeah. Matador? Bullfighting.
I'm just terrified of cows in general. Yeah.
You ever heard the expression grab the bull by the horn pft that's not what you do in a rodeo you don't grab the bull by the horn you grab it by by the saddle or by the hump on its back by the ridge you hold on for eight seconds and the very best case intimidated you are the bull goats best case scenario in a rodeo you hold on for eight seconds and then you win but then immediately after you win you have to escape something that's trying to kill you so do you really even win getting paid millions of dollars for eight seconds of work not bad it's pretty good that's pretty didn't you also compete with like a broken spleen and ruptured appendix and all that yeah football guy cowboy that's isn't that your whole's your whole that's your whole thing yeah but i mean i want to be a football guy i don't want to be a football guy stuck in a rodeo guy's body still that's what they are though yeah there's the fullbacks are basically rodeo guys would you want to no would you want to compete in a rodeo i don't think so i wouldn't to, but if I was going to pay a lot of money, it's definitely one of the sports that we're talking about, all these sports. It's probably one of the only ones that I could actually do, right? Get on a bull and actually do it.
I could never run a triathlon or play water pole. I'd drown.
You could handle the getting on the bull part, yeah. Yeah, right.
But that's, I mean, I could never run a triathlon or play water pole. I'd drown.

You could handle the getting on the bull part.

Yeah.

Yeah. Right.

But that's, that's, I mean, I could compete in it.

Like I would, I'd get tossed right away, but I could technically compete in it.

You could compete in a triathlon too.

You just, you just stop.

I would, dude, even walking a triathlon.

I mean, I'd drown on a triathlon.

I'd drown.

I would drown.

100% would drown. A mile swim.
And I'm a great swimmer swimmer people don't talk about how how far a mile is in the water it's insane insane length uh hank your last pick um soccer simple just because why any any sport that you can't use your hands it's just like you have 50% of your body and the stuff that are much more important and you can't even use it. You're basically just running around.
At most, you're scoring like one goal a game. I just don't, there's no, I see no value in it.
I like how Hank's entire explanation behind soccer is just that it would be boring. It's not wrong.
It is, dude. Soccer is boring as fuck.
It's not wrong. It's also, you get paid a shitload of money, but is just that it would be boring it's not it is dude soccer is boring as fuck it's not wrong it's also you get paid a shitload of money but is it worth it i mean at what price does your board not americans yeah true hank just by being born in america has a ceiling a glass ceiling to his worth as a soccer player literally literally like there's like what five americans maybe that are like getting paid really well to play soccer oh man you're gonna get you're gonna get people very upset with that one i like it all our european listeners i i enjoy i i would love to have soccer be back right now if we had soccer come on you'd watch soccer right now hank wouldn't you well yeah but i would i would watch pretty much any of the sports we just said where i wouldn't have watched them before although probably not tour de france or running or and i guess strongman was on i didn't even know about it and i still wouldn't watch it again belarus and nicaragua both have soccer still going on i know because i've lost money uh yeah the uh the esp and ocho over the weekend where they had the cherry spitting competition.
I watched that.

I watched like this robot fight thing.

I watched juggling and dodgeball mixed together in some weird sport.

I'd watch basically anything except for cycling.

Cycling is,

it's a more boring version of NASCAR.

Yeah.

Unless you could bet on a cyclist.

Yeah,

you are a cyclist.

I am a cyclist.

It's also,

I've read recently that cycling is the most dangerous sport in the world it's probably just cycling cycling bike crashes you get beat up so much because you're a nerd is probably why no it's people just opening their fucking doors their car doors yeah true that's pretty much it there's some there's some hilarious bike crashes out there on the internet yeah bike crashes are awesome are awesome. Bicyclist fights are pretty hilarious too.
Yes, they are. But bike crashes, like the big one in bike crashes, oh man, that's pretty fun.
All right, let's get to Billy, our deep dive with Billy football. Before we do that, PFT, you got a quick word from one of our sponsors.
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And now Billy football. Okay.
We now do our deep dive with Billy football. It is Monday.
Billy is joining us from his, uh, berserker blood cult basement. Frog's looking good.
He's the bunker. Sorry.
You're right. Uh, he's looking good.
Now, Billy, before you start this pitch, can we ask a quick question about you actually did go to the emergency room the other day?

Yeah.

So my stomach started hurting.

Like I said, these stabbing pains.

And turns out, like I thought I was like having appendicitis.

But then I went there.

They gave me like an ultrasound.

And they're like, you have swollen lymph nodes in your stomach, which can be caused by a viral infection.

And I was like, what's that? do i have coronavirus they're like no um have you been in contact like i'm swear to god they're like you may have contracted it's called like uh is this some they gave me some virus name and i was like where would i get that and they're like have you been in contact with cats and turns out i have cat scratch fever oh that's a real thing nugent like the yeah so what is cat scratch fever what does it do to you makes you just sick at guitar it makes you sick i don't know i got a swollen lymph node it feels like appendicitis it really hurts but we're playing through it so i i did love billy billy then said uh he's happy he was pumped that it wasn't appendicitis because if they had to take his appendix out that means he wouldn't have survived in the wild so at least you're still alive I'm still yeah I mean like I'm still like I can still survive in the wild by myself without like medical for those of you that can't see Billy right now he's rocking a sweet mustache he's got a suit and tie on you actually you look a little bit like Young Cat. I don't think I've ever seen any pictures of

Big Cat when he was 22

years old, however old you are, Billy.

21.

But I'd imagine that it looked, you look like a

Big Cat fuck Kirk Cousins.

It's fair.

I mean, I just wanted to grow a mustache in quarantine

because it's the only time I can really do and get

away with it. Because I'm not seeing any of you guys.
Sorry, Grandma, for cussing. Sorry about that, Billy.
I forgot. You're looking good.
You're looking good. All right.
So should we start the pitch? Okay. So I'm willing to provide any amount of equity share of a supplement company, the Berserker Blood Cult supplement company, for about $10,000 to $30,000, depending on the quote.
$10,000 to $30,000. That's a pretty big gap there.
Billy, you can't. So I'll give you, I'll take.
Give us 100%. Yeah, give us 100% of equity.
For $10,000. I don't care because I just, like, basically these products are sick.
You just want to get cash rich. Wait, wait, wait.
Big Cat, sidebar. So before Billy even explains what the hell the supplement product company is, if we say we'll give you $10,000 and we tell him at a valuation of $10 million in your company, doesn't that make the company worth $10 million immediately? Yeah.
Well, we have to. So $10,000, dollars though on a ten million dollar valuation would

only get us like 0.001 percent of his company yeah but still like that's how you get started you get like all these articles and shit written about you by saying oh this startup is now worth ten million dollars yeah click to find out more does that mean i could get under like the 20 under 20 type thing?

You're not under 20.

I mean 30, whatever.

I'd like to enter in. You're not under 20.
I mean 30, whatever. I'd like to enter into an offer sheet negotiation with you.
So we're speaking on preliminary terms right now for Series A funding on your supplement company. Now, what is your supplement company sell? I got two products.
Like two products, but one product has three levels. First product.
Wait, what? So there's four products. Yeah, but one are all different types of pre-workouts for the movie.
Okay. So first product, crisis fuel.
It's for maintaining mass when you're trying to be energized. Let's say a couple of situations.
First off, pandemic, spoken. We know what happens during a pandemic.
You need to drink crisis fuel. Second, it's finals week.
You're needing to maintain mass and stay energized. So look, everyone around you who's students, not student athletes, they're all guzzling Adderall and becoming little skeleton, like sweating, having heart attacks.
Definitely not student athletes though, just the students. That's the students.
You're a student athlete. You need to maintain mass, but be energized to study.
Because there's a sophomore who doesn't care about his academics, who's going to take your spot and your girlfriend's parents are asking you, what are you going to do with life after football? So you need to study, but also maintain your spot on the football team. A lot of things going around.
So maintain mass energy. So this is what we're going to do.
I developed a proprietary blend, which isn't going to be like a bullshit proprietary blend. All these supplements, I don't even want to flavor them because I want you to be able to taste the ingredients.
When you put it in your mouth, like this is strong shit. I'm going to get to another type of supplement that I gave to PFT the other day.
It's like a whole thing. I've actually been testing them on myself recently, like caffeine and caffeine.
If you mix them, it's like a super energized type thing. So I'm going to do like casein protein or some sort of animal based protein, mix it with B12 vitamins, taurine, caffeine.
If I could, I'd get the stuff from Jack3D that got banned, but we can't do that anymore. So that would be sick because like, let's say what else? Let's say you can't eat.
You're like, you know, you're gaming. You need energy, but you need to maintain mass.
So you've been gaming all day. You don't have time for food.
Like you're on a road trip. You don't want to stop.
You're a trucker overnight delivery. Can't stop because your delivery is due the next day at 6am.
It's 3am. You can't stop for food, that sort of stuff.
But I'm thinking with the crisis fuel, we sell it in 10 gallon buckets. So for example, let's say there's a wildfire.
It's approaching your house. It's California.
You need to grab as much food as you can. Screw the food.
Grab your 10 gallon bucket of crisis fuel, which is all powder and a bunch of water. Throw in your car, drive away.
You have enough meals for 40 days. Okay.
I like where your head's at, Billy. The no flavor thing.
Are you married to that? No, we can flavor the crisis fuel. That's more for the pre-workout because I want the pre-workout to hit and you'd be like, this isn't just flavored Kool-Aid with caffeine in it.
This is real stuff. Billy, would you be open to doing a diet crisis fuel? Because while I appreciate where your head is at with gaining mass, I think a lot of people are going for the skinny bod these days.
Well, the whole point of crisis fuel is that it's like 2000 calories a punch. so it's protein carbs add a shit kind of cornstarch to it so you just get a ton of carbs every time you drink it but a lot of energy okay so it's a meal replacement yeah placement but energy like okay all right with big cats getting to here it's actually a valid point if you make it slightly less than 2 000 calories right you

could just say it's your entire day's replacement right so all you have to do is you just drink one crisis fuel and and it's a diet supplement so it's not even like diet crisis fuel it's for dieting it's the only meal that you eat in a day oh you could do that but then you just eat less crisis fuel.

Okay, so there can be two branches

of crisis fuel. One for people who are trying to lose weight.

Now when we say eat weight we're talking about drinking right yeah yeah we're just gonna throw this you throw in some water mix it up you pound it down you chug it you're done for the day boom and it sits in your stomach but not in like it's a light sit in your stomach so you're full for rest of the day, but you don't need to eat and you don't feel slow.

How does that happen?

How does it sit in your stomach,

but also not sit in your stomach?

Slow burning proteins and carbohydrates.

Does it give you man tits?

No,

it's going to be extremely androgenic.

It's not gonna be estrogenic.

No soy.

Does it take away your man tits?

Well, where there's going to be a separate line of things called T-boosters that we're going to market not for human consumption so we can put the good stuff in it.

Oh, that's smart.

So people can buy it.

They're just explicitly told not to consume it.

But wink, wink, wink.

They can do whatever they want once they have it.

Use it on their test subjects. Right.
Okay. want once they have it use their use it on their

test subjects right okay got it so it's like selling bleach right yeah if we say don't consume

it's on your it's on you if you consume it but if you consume it you'll probably get super jacked

and awesome yeah and you can't say on it like use it on your test subjects because that implies that you have like a slave that you keep to experiment on.

You just need to give it like a,

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a, a, a, yeah you can't say on it like use it on your test subjects because that implies that you have like a slave that you keep to experiment on you just need to give it like a yeah we have to give it like an alternate purpose like sell it as um it's fertilizer it could be fertilizer or it could be like kitchen sink cleaner yeah yeah so now here's to the second line this is berserker mode pre-workouts. Now, PFT, remember that stuff you took the other day? I told you to take it.
Pre-zerker. Pre-zerker.
Exactly. Boom.
There's 10% steak right there, Hank. Thanks.
So PFT, remember that stuff you took the other day and I said take it until your skin crawls? The beta alanine, yeah. Yeah.
So I've got a new mixture of blends, low in caffeine because i don't really like caffeine in my pre-workouts because it makes you feel dehydrated this one is just going to make your skin crawl there's gonna be three levels like super skin crawl because that's just the animal spirits coming up from your body to make you go berserker and then the first level is for people who aren't like that into berserker but like they don't want that much skin crawling they just still want and the super pump. So what it is, is the blood flushes to the surface of your skin as a sort of, um, uh, his, uh, antihistamine histamine response.
So, um, it like all the blood goes to surf your skin because it's going out of your body to like get into your muscles. So then basically you have to lift in order to get the itch away.
Why don't we just get people addicted to heroin and then have them work out? They're like going through withdrawals or skins crawling. Boom.
Well, it's hard to work out if you're on heroin. It's true.
Well, the cardio is probably pretty good. They're also, all the junkies are skinny.
Well, how this all ties in together is that we need to make our veins giant for the nurses when we donate blood in the berserk of blood cult. So this gives you a super pump.
Your vascularity gets huge. Your nitrous oxide levels goes up, and you get sick boners.
Sick boners. You should have led with sick boners, by the way.
Yeah. Can we sell them behind the counter at gas stations? Yes.
Okay. That's a good start.
Now, I admit the heroin thing was probably getting a little ahead of my skis, but it made me think, if you want to market some, like, real hardcore pre-workout shit and tell people, like, this is not for pussies. This is a real deal.
Why don't we make some sort of pre-workout stuff that you can just inject? Like that comes with a needle,

like really kick it up a little bit.

I don't know about that one because then you might as well just do steroids.

Yeah,

I guess I did invent steroids there.

I'm just like,

I'm like,

don't want big supplements because they basically sell Kool-Aid with caffeine in it.

I want to make something with no taste because then it's cheaper.

You actually know what you're getting.

This is going to be no BS. I don't even want any money from this.
I just want dudes to get the real stuff so they don't do something stupid. Nice.
So we're non-for-profit. That will help with taxes.
We're non-for-profit. We're at 501c.
Yeah, there we go. All right, what's the other thing? And this is how we're going to market it.
So we're going to market it in huge packages and you sell them to people. So I'm the Al Zerker with a capital a, and then we'll sell it.
And once you get the package, you're going to be small, a alpha Zerker. And then you have to give it to all your friends.
And then if they want to become an alpha Zerker and get an alpha Zerker hoodie, which is going to be a sick hoodie with a bear on it. So it looks like a bear skin.
And then they're the alpha Zerker. And then you have your own berserker clan.
And then if they if they want to become an alpha zerker they have to buy their own package and get another berserker gang to then sell their other parts of the supplements to and then we just build a berserker blood cult and they all have to like make sure they're donating blood and then selling all the supplements in these 10 gallon tubs but the pre-workout to sell me the small ones. Okay, so basically a pyramid scheme is what we're talking about here.
No, the cult. No, that's fine.
Oh, it's a cult. Okay.
Yeah, yeah, same. Yeah.
We're not haunting anybody. It's a cult to donate blood for the blood shortage.
I like it. I'm in.
So what do you need? I think I need like at most $30,000. What about do you think people would just send us some that you can do some mixes with? I'd like to sample before I invest.
Yeah. If you sell – if you produce supplements and are willing to make an unflavored supplement, hit me up.
Yeah, and then we'll just let Billy test it out, and I am down to start taking

random supplements from you all summer long.

Absolutely.

I'm actually been getting into biohacking,

so let's just make this the

summer of biohacking.

Oh, I also wanted to create a supplement

for chilling out so people stop taking

Xanax. Weed, beer,

marijuana.

And then there should be another supplement. Checking off.
Marijuana would be that supplement. No, but marijuana makes you lazy.
It lost us to Vietnam. Billy, what do you think about doing something with protein? It seems like you're dancing around the idea of protein right now.
Protein, you see, you got to consume your protein in an anabolic state so it turns into good mass, not bad mass. We need perfect anabolic state.
Being drunk is not the best time for the anabolic state. Well, don't let great be the enemy of good here, Billy.
True. Yeah.
Billy, I think we have preliminary talks. We're in, we're in on preliminary talks.
I'd like to see, like PFT said, I'd like to see, uh, maybe a test. We can get a sample and then go from there.
Well, I'll test out all the samples on myself. It'll be sick.
I'm gonna get Jack. The berserker blood cult exercise and diet program is going to start this week.
It's going to be sick. We're going to make videos.
Body weight is going to be sick. And then I also got an app idea.
I can't tell you what it is because I don't get sucker cucked, but basically there's a lot of things that people want and there's a lot of people who can give them those things and we're going to connect those people and everyone's going to have a really sick night every time they use the app. Backpage.com.
Billy invented Backpage. All right.
We're in.

Boom. All right.
So I'll tell you about the app offline. Perfect.
All right. We'll see you next

Monday, Billy. Thank you.
All right. Have a good one.
Love you guys. I am snacking.

I am snacking. Cheetos, Pringles, ramen, french fries, chicken, nuggets, ice cream, sandwich.
What am I craving? What am I craving? I am snacking. I am snacking.
I am snacking. Nuggets.
I am snacking. What am I craving? What am I craving? I have snack.
What in my crate? What in my crate? I have snack. Cheetos, Cheetos, Cheetos.
Pringles, Pringles. Ramen, ramen.
Ugh, french fries, french fries, french fries. Chicken, chicken, chicken, chicken.
Iugget. Ice cream, ice cream, ice cream, sandwich.

What am I craving?

I am snacking.

I am snacking.

You did it, Lugget.

I am snacking.

What am I craving?

What am I craving?

I am snacking.

What am I craving?

What am I craving? I am snacking. What am I craving? What am I craving?

I am snacking.