Horace Grant, Last Dance Episodes 5 & 6, Mt Flushmore + Billy's Deep Dive

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Speaker 1 On today's part of my take, we have Horace Grant, member of the first three-peat of the Chicago Bulls, on the show.

Speaker 1 We talked to Horace about gambling with MJ, possibly being the snitch for the Jordan Rules book, his time in Orlando with Shaq and Penny, his time in LA with Shaq and Kobe,

Speaker 1 everything.

Speaker 1 So, oh, also Scotty Pippen's cat, which is kind of a fun little side story. Great interview with him.

Speaker 1 Gives us a little bit more insight into the last dance, which we will review episodes five and six.

Speaker 1 We have who's back of the week, Mount Flushmore of sporting or sports to participate in, and Billy's deep dive, where he pitches us shark tank style on his new protein.

Speaker 3 When cool, creamy ranch meets tangy, bold buffalo, the hole is greater than the sum of its sauce. Say howdy, partner, to new Buffalo Ranch sauce, only at McDonald's for a limited time.

Speaker 4 At participating McDonald's.

Speaker 5 Okay, let's go.

Speaker 5 No place to hang out or washing.

Speaker 5 And then I can't blame all on the sun. Oh no, we're gonna rock it down to

Speaker 1 Welcome to Part of My Take presented by the Cash App. Go download it right now.
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Speaker 1 Today is Monday, May the 4th. Be with you.
Oh, shit.

Speaker 4 Let's go.

Speaker 1 Not even a Star Wars guy, and I remember that joke.

Speaker 4 Wait, consecutive part of my take, so we went from it's going to be May to May the 4th be with you.

Speaker 1 Damn.

Speaker 4 That's pretty, that's cool.

Speaker 1 Shout out Robbie Fox. He's probably so pissed that we're not all in the office today, so you can't drop that line to everyone.

Speaker 1 All right, we have an awesome, awesome show for you. Horace Grant coming up.

Speaker 1 A little NFL talk coming up. A little who's back, Billy.
But before that, we're going to review episodes five and six of The Last Dance.

Speaker 1 Now, let's do it chronologically because as much as I want to start with the gambling stuff, so we don't get confused. Let's try to keep chronological order and we'll start with the dream team.
And

Speaker 1 basically,

Speaker 1 I would say, what would you, if you had to break it down, Michael Jordan doing this documentary,

Speaker 1 50% to remind everyone in the world that Michael Jordan's the goat and LeBron, like he's still better than LeBron, and 50% just to shit down Isaiah Thomas' throat.

Speaker 4 Yes, I was going to say, I think that a big part of him finally releasing this footage, what, 22 years later, is just to remind Isaiah Thomas that he was not on the dream team because he didn't shake his hand after that playoff series, and that Christian Leightner was on that team.

Speaker 4 How out of place do you think Christian Leitner felt at that practice? He probably knew better.

Speaker 4 Christian Leitner was probably on the sidelines, just like knowing not even to try to sub himself into the the game.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's it's been said, it's been talked about that like MJ said, like no matter what team Christian

Speaker 1 Leitner was on, they would always lose. Like no matter what, because he was that bad and that far out of out

Speaker 1 in the deep end when it came to how good this team was.

Speaker 1 The Monte Carlo practice is something that I don't, I think someone has the full unedited tape, and I don't know why we can't watch it. Like, it makes no sense.

Speaker 1 Unless something has been said in it that can't be taken back.

Speaker 4 But it's crazy because it actually is the exact moment and of course mj had already won two titles but it's the exact moment where the torch really gets passed because you see magic being like it's still my team yeah and then that happens and he's like well i guess it's not my team anymore yeah imagine taking a torch out of a practice session like we're not talking about an nba finals we're not talking about a playoff series michael jordan took the the torch during a practice session and it wouldn't shock me at all if if michael jordan had paid players on christian lattener's team to lose every single practice game just so that they could go back and say like hey isaia you could have been on this team instead of this loser christian latner and you weren't but yeah that that practice was um i'd heard the stories about it before hadn't seen this much footage of it yet uh the footage has to exist it actually if you want to get our conspiracy theorist hat on um I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility that LeBron James purchased that film like he purchased the film of getting dunked on at the Nike camp, and just burned it so that people wouldn't know just truly how great Michael Jordan was.

Speaker 1 There's a longer version on YouTube that I've watched, and I know that it does exist. I don't know why we can't watch the whole thing.

Speaker 1 There's got to be a reason, or maybe like now would be the time to let us see the whole thing, but I would say it's probably the greatest practice of all time.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 the other stories out of the Olympics, the Tony Ku coach.

Speaker 1 So we have the Michael Jordan grudge meter that we've been doing the last couple episodes after these last dance. He has a full list tonight.

Speaker 1 The Tony Ku coach, where basically if Jerry Kraus ever had eyes for anyone, ever,

Speaker 1 Michael Jordan's basically be like, I'm going to destroy your life. And that first game against Tony Ku coach, when Ku Coach was like, I didn't even know we were playing that hard.

Speaker 1 And Jordan had Pippen guarding him and just like dunking on him and everything.

Speaker 1 And then Pippen with just the ruthless, like, yeah, he can't even play in the NBA because he was mad that Jerry Kraus was going to pay pay him more than he was paying pippin that was great and then i just remember that that dream team was such a it was such a joke how much better they were than everyone it was so so insane they lock they did lose one game to a scrimmage to a college all-star team where i think chuck daly didn't even play mj just to prove the point like you guys need you guys could lose to anyone but they couldn't lose to anyone they could they didn't take a timeout in the entire olympics it's incredible how good that team was

Speaker 4 It occurred to me while I'm watching this that there's so many people out there whose best moments in their lives are getting their ass kicked by Michael Jordan.

Speaker 4 There are probably 3,000 people that looking back on their deathbed, they're like, you remember when Michael Jordan just absolutely dominated me? That was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 So speaking of that, because I went to look up, I was trying to find some stories because it's famous.

Speaker 5 That's why Dan Dokic doesn't shut up.

Speaker 1 Well, it's true. It's true.
That's a good point.

Speaker 4 It's a great point because I thought about this when I was watching Croatia. Dokic seems like it's a Croatian name.

Speaker 4 Could he have played for Croatia in those Olympics and come in as like the Jordan stopper?

Speaker 1 I don't think he was good enough. I mean, Tony Kukoch was a fucking really good player.

Speaker 1 And Croatia was actually like, I mean, they were world's worse than USA, but they were better than everyone else.

Speaker 1 So I went and looked up,

Speaker 1 no offense to Dokic, but that's just... Yeah, he's not an NBA.
He's not an NBA caliber player or Europe caliber player.

Speaker 1 So I went back and I looked because there's a bunch of famous stories about how MJ would play 36 holes before these games and not even care.

Speaker 1 I found, and I found one that I had never seen before from Charles Barkley. I think he told recently.

Speaker 1 And it's basically MJ rolled up all everything you just said, PFT, like the amount of people out there who are like, my best moment is getting smoked by him.

Speaker 1 So it was a, I'm going to read what Chuck said. He said,

Speaker 1 they go out, play 18, and Chuck Daly says, okay, that was a great time. And Michael says, nah, I'm going to go play another 18.

Speaker 1 And Barkley says, I'm like Michael. We got a game tonight.
He says, Chuck, I'll be fine, blah, blah, blah. So Michael comes back after playing another 18.
We're getting ready for the game.

Speaker 1 And Chuck says, Charles, you got this guy. Scotty Pippen, you got this guy.
And then Michael says, nah, I got him. It was the point guard from Puerto Rico.

Speaker 1 And Chuck says, well, he's the point guard, Michael. Michael looks at him and says, I said I got him.
I read something he said about me in the newspaper, and I got him.

Speaker 1 And the whole room's like, dude, you just played 36 holes of golf and you're going to guard the point guard. Michael would not let this little dude dribble.

Speaker 1 He had played 36 holes and he's talking to the guy the whole time like, hey, don't you ever talk about me publicly again. I'm Michael Jordan.
Don't you ever talk about me.

Speaker 1 That is a practice scrimmage game against Puerto Rico.

Speaker 4 We got to look up and find out exactly what the guy said because my guess is the dude from Puerto Rico was like, yeah, Michael Jordan's the best player of all time, but he's human.

Speaker 4 Or something innocuous like that. You know, like on a good day, anything can happen.
And

Speaker 4 Jordan had to, he was at a level where he had to invent all these rivals that weren't actually rivals to him just so he could get motivated to go out and beat somebody's ass.

Speaker 1 Right. Like, hey, like, you know, we've been practicing really hard.
Michael Jordan's the greatest of all time, but we can't go in there and be intimidated by him. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 And Jordan was like, no, I got this guy.

Speaker 1 So, so

Speaker 1 the other, also, Harvey Schiller is on the grudge meter, that just random clip where he's like, Harvey Schiller's a real dick, right before MJ pulls the classic move of the flag over the Reebok, which I'm sure would have been, it was a controversy back then because there was nothing to talk about in terms of the games, but today it would have been like

Speaker 1 insano. People would have flipped out.

Speaker 4 It also got Reebok a lot of action on social media tonight. Like, how many impressions did they get just based off Michael Jordan ponking them back in 1992?

Speaker 1 Also, how about Adidas listening to MJ be like, yeah, Adidas was my number one, but they literally couldn't make a shoe. Yep.

Speaker 4 That's tough. That's tough if you're an Adidas.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Unbelievable.

Speaker 1 All right, so the other part of the episode five, which was very interesting, was the political stuff and

Speaker 1 the famous Republicans Buy Sneakers 2, which MJ says it was a joke, and Sam Smith has... since many times been like, yeah, he said it in jest, but it became something like a lot bigger.

Speaker 1 I actually, I don't know what your take is, PFT, but you can criticize MJ for never being an activist, but the one thing that he has always done is he's been pretty true to himself in that he's like, this is kind of how I feel and how I'm going to do it.

Speaker 1 And it doesn't feel fake at any point.

Speaker 4 I agree. So

Speaker 4 you can always point from the outside and be like, I wish this person would say more about this or that. But it's tough to tell somebody like what to actually do when you're in their shoes.

Speaker 4 Like that, that's a completely different thing. If you just want to keep to yourself and go about your business, his life was not as a politician.

Speaker 4 His public life was not as a policymaker or as somebody who stood out there for social issues. His job was a basketball player.

Speaker 4 And if he didn't feel comfortable doing that, I've always found it tough to criticize somebody for not kind of going out of their lane a little bit if it's not important enough to them to do it.

Speaker 1 It's actually, and it speaks to the greater theme of these two episodes that people wanted MJ to fit in a perfect like box and they wanted him to be the perfect guy and everything and they wanted him to be as politically active as Muhammad Ali and they wanted him to not have a gambling problem and all these things and it's like but he

Speaker 1 he's kind of been open with how human he is like these are the things I like and these are things I'm not going to do And yeah, you could say someone with that platform might want to speak up more, but at the same time, he's always been consistent with that's how he's going to approach it.

Speaker 4 Yeah, and if that's the route that you want to take in public life, I find it hard to criticize somebody for not saying like what I wish they would say. Does that make sense?

Speaker 4 Like let the person be themselves a little bit. I didn't realize because I guess I hadn't paid that much attention to it before, but I didn't know that the dude is running against Jesse Helms.

Speaker 1 Jesse Helms.

Speaker 1 Very, very racist. That, I think, is the part that makes it like, hey, come on, MJ.
If there's ever a time that you could speak up, this is the time.

Speaker 4 Well, he didn't want to offend the air monarch, the future air monarch true owners of America.

Speaker 1 Right. But again, I'm not going to tell someone how to, you know, what they should and shouldn't do when it comes to just because they're a famous basketball player.

Speaker 1 And if he doesn't, you know, I just have always thought his consistency with it, at least, if he went back and forth and did it when it was convenient for him, I'd have a bigger problem with just being like, either you are or you aren't.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's an interesting study because Michael Jordan was the most famous person in the entire world, probably for 10 or 15 years.

Speaker 4 And it's like, what does somebody, can somebody like that exist without taking a stand on public platform issues?

Speaker 4 And he, he just kind of chose to keep to himself and focus on what was important to him.

Speaker 4 And, like, you know, of course, there are certain things that people wish he would have done differently, but I'm not going to be like, no, Michael Jordan, from my perspective, should have done this and that because it's really easy for me to say.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 that was interesting, though. I thought that was

Speaker 1 the first time in the documentary where it was starting to get into a territory where it's like, hey, he's not perfect, you know?

Speaker 1 And it's interesting because there were maybe some people criticizing that it was a,

Speaker 1 well, I saw Ken Burns, who like, who has heard from Ken Burns in the last 20 years, said that it was too much of a puff piece.

Speaker 1 But it's like, why don't you let the whole 10 episodes come out and let's then judge it. And this is, this was pretty honest that he, you know, people were not happy with MJ for this.

Speaker 1 And then we have the other moment where in episode six, people are going after him for his gambling. I've never related to anyone more than Michael Jordan saying, I don't have a gambling problem.

Speaker 1 I can stop whenever I want, knowing that he still gambles to this day. Right, right.
And he could. But he hasn't wanted to stop.
And he has not wanted to stop.

Speaker 4 He doesn't have to. And David Stern's quote, it was something along the lines of his gambling issue was never an epic crisis of a problem.

Speaker 4 Like adding two qualifiers on there, like he knew it was a very bad problem. But again, this is all on a sliding scale.

Speaker 4 If you're Michael Jordan and you're rich as shit, and like he said, his family's not starving, his kids aren't starving, that's how you know it would be a problem.

Speaker 4 Then, I guess he didn't have a gambling problem, he had a problem when he would lose gambling because then he'd need to gamble more.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he had a competition problem. He said he just wanted to compete.
Who doesn't want to compete?

Speaker 4 If that Jerry Curl's security guard wouldn't have beat him in the throwing the quarter against the wall competition, then he wouldn't have to gamble against that guy for the rest of his life until he made that money back.

Speaker 1 That shrug was so great.

Speaker 1 That was such a great behind-the-scenes moment right there that shrug was all time um connie chung by the way i fucking i miss those interviews in the 90s when they did like the soft focus on the camera so everything was a little bit blurred and she dropped the uh you know people are saying uh you're gambling with your reputation

Speaker 1 He was like, what do you, what do you mean? Like, what are you fucking talking about? I like to play blackjack, and I like to lose a shitload of money because I think I'm better at golf than I am.

Speaker 1 All me alone.

Speaker 4 All All in all, losing, you know, five, six figures at a time playing blackjack is not that bad of advice considering what the alternatives could have been for somebody with his high profile, right?

Speaker 4 So, yeah, he likes to gamble. Okay, everyone's got a vice.
If you don't have a vice, then you've got some serious. Like, Marvalbert didn't have a gambling problem, you know, but

Speaker 1 that toupee, by the way, I forget, I forgot how apparent Marv Valbert's toupee has been through history. Go ahead, Hank.

Speaker 5 One thing that I do think is a common misconception, because it was for me before we moved to New York, is that Atlantic City is really not near New York City whatsoever.

Speaker 5 So him being like, yeah, I just wanted to get out of the city for a little while. It's four hours to get there.

Speaker 1 Like four long hours. That story when he was like, yeah, we were there till like, you know, we went to gamble a little, play, a little blackjack.
I was home by like 12.30. He's like, dude, no chance.

Speaker 1 He was home by 12.30. No chance.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you would have to leave Atlantic City at like 9.15 to get home by midnight. It did happen.

Speaker 1 Well, he probably took a helicopter.

Speaker 1 Well, he said he took a limo, but yeah, he might have taken one pack. But at the end of the day, it's like he's not hurting anyone.
And like he said, he has a lot of money and he gambles it.

Speaker 1 I remember that book, by the way, about

Speaker 1 the guy, the Eskinus guy,

Speaker 1 the Michael and me, he basically wrote a book because MJ wouldn't pay his debt. Like, that was like the ultimate nerd move.
To be like, you know, like the mafia breaks your kneecaps.

Speaker 1 This is schinas, bro, just wrote a fucking book being like, I played golf with MJ. He owes me a shitload of dough.

Speaker 4 It'd be a real shame if this story were to end up on the New York Times bestseller list.

Speaker 1 Like, yeah, that's just

Speaker 1 Michael and me.

Speaker 4 That's such a loser threat to make. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. In that picture.
And then, of course, I mean, it's pretty shocking that

Speaker 1 MJ as late as 92, 93 was hanging out with Slim Bowler and being like,

Speaker 1 like, that's Slim Bowler, a guy named Slim

Speaker 1 with Jerry Curl and like a golf he's all known as a golf hustler like that's just gonna get you in trouble every time was it like 90% of people named Slim their when they fill out their income taxes they write hustler as their profession it's so great I mean I think everybody should have still hanging with them

Speaker 4 everybody should have a friend named Slim that all they do is gamble with Yeah, but that was such a funny scene.

Speaker 1 And then, yeah, MJ's like, yeah, $57,000 check. I had to pay him because I lost in golf.
So it's,

Speaker 1 you know, I'm sure it will get a little darker when we get to the next episode when we talk about MJ's dad getting murdered, but

Speaker 1 there is an element of like people going after him for the politics stuff and the gambling stuff. They just, they wanted this perfect thing and it just doesn't exist.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it's almost like, it was almost like you can make the analogy to like pre,

Speaker 1 you know, Tiger getting caught for having like a sex addiction.

Speaker 1 You have these athletes, no athlete is perfect.

Speaker 1 You think you know these human beings, but they're not perfect, and there's a lot, and you know, it starts with the Jordan Rules book, and then the Isaiah stuff, and then the political activism, and then the gambling.

Speaker 1 Like, it becomes a, hey, this guy's not exactly the perfect guy that you think he is. He's unbelievable at basketball, and he's rough around the edges.
What are you going to do?

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 4 If you gave the average person in America the attention, the level of fame, and the money that Michael Jordan had in the year 1998 and just sent them out into the wild, I guarantee you almost every single person would get into some more messed up shit than Michael Jordan did.

Speaker 4 Michael Jordan, I mean, to be fair, like, yeah, he's not perfect. He did some bad stuff, and I think like his personality comes out, his hyper-competitive personality.

Speaker 4 rubs people the wrong way and that's part of who he is and that's part of how he you know achieved the level of uh greatness that he did um but at at the end of the day,

Speaker 4 most people, if they were put in that situation, they would fuck up way worse than Michael Jordan did. So I don't have a problem with that.

Speaker 4 And when Ken Burns is like, oh, this isn't a real documentary, he's like, yeah, no shit, Ken Burns. Okay?

Speaker 4 You're Ken Burns.

Speaker 4 You bleed Capital J journalism. It's like Mozart complaining that Nickelback doesn't write good enough music.
It's like, yeah, this documentary is not like Capital J journalism.

Speaker 4 Michael Jordan had the ultimate sign-off on it. He had Final Cut or whatever.

Speaker 4 We're here to watch a story about Michael Jordan featuring awesome behind-the-scenes footage. I'm going to enjoy doing that.

Speaker 1 Right, right.

Speaker 1 Other notes I had, so the Grudge Meter,

Speaker 1 oh, the BJ Armstrong quote when he was like in that 92 season, they were all playing, and MJ just was figuring out ways to win games. Like, he wasn't really, like, it wasn't even a game to him.

Speaker 1 He was just like, I'm just going to win the game when I want to. Like, everyone else is playing basketball.
He's just winning games.

Speaker 1 The Suns, Coach,

Speaker 4 how about in the finals against the Suns? When this is how you know that you're going to lose, when your coach starts screaming, we're not going to let Jordan beat us.

Speaker 4 Like, that's his strategy is just to scream loudly that we're not going to let Jordan beat us. At that point, Jordan's already won.

Speaker 1 Dude, that and Charles just seeing skinny Charles, and Charles Barkley was so goddamn good. It's kind of like he's gotten so fat and, you know, not winning a title.

Speaker 1 But again, he lost to Michael Jordan. And that moment where he said in in game two, when he's like, I played the best game of my life, and MJ just outplayed me.

Speaker 1 I went back and looked at the box score. Charles had 42, 13, and 4, and MJ had 42, 12, and 9.
He's just like, what are you going to do? What are you going to do?

Speaker 1 And I do love, so there were some more grudges that were settled. So Clyde Drexler in episode five, when that's just the media saying that Clyde and MJ are on the same level.

Speaker 1 So that's not even Clyde Drexler doing that. MJ was just just like, fuck this guy.
He's not on my level.

Speaker 1 Barkley in the 93 series because Barkley wins the MVP, which, weirdly enough,

Speaker 1 you could make the case that MJ should have won the MVP all six years that they won the titles, but they gave it to Barkley in 93 and they gave it to Malone in 97 because of the MJ fatigue.

Speaker 1 And in a weird way, that just made it more unfair for the rest of the league by being like, you're not the MVP. You're not the best player in the league this year.

Speaker 1 Okay, how's Michael Jordan going to react to that? He's going to fucking rip their heart out. So he had Barkley

Speaker 1 and then Dan Marley, another Jerry Krauss, where Jerry Kraus is like, I love Dan Marley. And then Michael Jordan's like, yo, fuck that.
If you like him, I hate him. I'm going to.
It's under Dan. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And when Paxon hits that shot and you see Dan Marley just, Dan Marley almost pulls the Craig Elo and falls to the ground. Yes.
When John Paxton releases that shot, he's like, I know this is going in.

Speaker 1 Pax, what a hero.

Speaker 1 Paxon's going to have to win his come up.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and it's actually, it's actually actually perfect that he's not in his job anymore because I feel like that would have been the reception of like every time they show him, it's like, fuck this guy.

Speaker 1 Now

Speaker 1 he can't hurt us anymore.

Speaker 4 So you're free to celebrate the shot again. Yeah.
The shot brings up good feelings. Good timing.

Speaker 1 But it was, yeah, it was a good two

Speaker 1 episodes. I really do kind of wish we just had these one episode every night for 10 consecutive nights because they're all just so good and I just want to I want to watch them all right.
right now.

Speaker 4 It's kind of rare that you get done watching. Leroy, what are you doing?

Speaker 4 Sorry, Leroy's eating an entire Indian dinner off my coffee table.

Speaker 1 Hang on. Oh,

Speaker 1 okay. Well, that's a wild move to have an Indian dinner just sitting on your coffee table.

Speaker 4 Spit it out. He's eating tinfoil right now.

Speaker 1 Leroy, spit it out.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to blame Leroy for that one.

Speaker 1 That's on you.

Speaker 4 He's blind.

Speaker 4 Why the hell?

Speaker 4 He can find none from across the room.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Stella eats anything that is

Speaker 1 her height level. It's never my fault.
I mean, it's never her fault. It's always my fault.

Speaker 4 Sorry, Leroy, go to your crate.

Speaker 4 He doesn't know where his crate is.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 We'll watch something that's two hours long. So each of these, you know, each Sunday night, we sit down, we watch two hours of the Jordan documentary.
And afterwards, I feel better.

Speaker 4 I feel less tired after watching it. Anything else, any movie that I watch, I'm like, okay, time to go to bed afterwards.

Speaker 4 Now it's like, I want to stay up later, watch more of this, or at least, you know, watch some basketball on TV.

Speaker 1 I actually had that thought during this, like, how sad it is that we don't have an NBA Finals this year. Maybe we will, but there's just so much history in the NBA Finals.

Speaker 1 It's one of those things that,

Speaker 1 I mean, I guess it's for all sports in their championships. You just remember where you were when you watched these things, and it's like, oh.

Speaker 1 A right of passage on the calendar, like, oh, June comes around. Like, this is NBA Finals time.
Like, where is it? So I'm a little sad.

Speaker 1 I had that moment whenever it gets to, when we get to like the end of May, early June, you're like, shit, this is when the NBA Finals should be going on. But it was great.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 This is when we started having

Speaker 1 playoff ecstasy. Yeah.
Yes.

Speaker 4 You're right. We should be dealing with like overtime hockey games right now.
Fans getting game seven.

Speaker 1 There should be a game set. There probably was a game seven today.

Speaker 4 God damn it.

Speaker 4 The other two notes I had, that depressed me. The other two notes that I had was how cool the Dream Team cups were at McDonald's back in 1992.
I saw those pictures earlier today.

Speaker 4 That's all I could think about was like putting those in the dishwasher and taking them out, and they're immediately like half of David Robinson's body's gone on them after one wash.

Speaker 4 But those cups are awesome. I would go back all the time to get those.
And then I was surprised that Michael Jordan laced up his own shoes before games.

Speaker 4 I always thought he had a guy that broke them in for him.

Speaker 1 He doesn't trust anyone else.

Speaker 4 Like

Speaker 4 Jimi Hendrix strings his own guitar, probably.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Could you imagine?

Speaker 1 It also probably was a third, like knowing that last episode talking about the crush of celebrity,

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 1 three minutes that he got to tie his own shoes was probably a nice

Speaker 4 stick in hockey.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Could you imagine playing an entire basketball game in ones at like 14 years after that was the hottest new shoe? It's crazy. Oh, it's crazy.

Speaker 5 The ones they made now, you might be able to play, and and the ones they made back then, I can't even imagine.

Speaker 4 Another big loser. Maybe I was looking away.
Maybe Leroy was eating some tickamasala off my plate when this happened. I missed it.
But did they not even show the Jon Stark stunk?

Speaker 1 They did.

Speaker 4 Oh, they did. Okay, I must have missed that.
I thought they just completely glossed over that.

Speaker 1 No, no, no.

Speaker 4 I chalked that one up to MJ having Final Cut.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, no, they did. They did.

Speaker 1 Yeah, those series were, and we'll get to it.

Speaker 1 I'm sure they'll show the 94 series, which we talked to Horace Grant about, how great that series was with all the drama and different things that went on.

Speaker 1 All right, let's do, before we get to Horace Grant and who's back, we have to talk a little NFL, Andy Dalton, a Dallas Cowboy. Now,

Speaker 1 do you think this is, one,

Speaker 1 a

Speaker 1 way to get Dak Prescott to the negotiating table? Or, two, this is actually a legitimately good move as Andy Dalton is a backup for the Cowboys?

Speaker 4 I mean, I think he's probably one of the best backups in the league right now. You'd have a hard time convincing me otherwise.
Like Andy Dalton is a very, very, very good backup quarterback.

Speaker 4 I think it's partially that, partially Jerry Jones likes having a red-headed backup on his squad like he did with Jason Garrett, someone that he can yell at all the time.

Speaker 4 I think that it definitely applies some pressure to Dak. So Dak is on a one-year tag, which, as Mike Florio pointed out, could be rescinded.
I love Mike just stirring the pot.

Speaker 4 Mike was like, do you think that it's occurred to Jerry Jones to just say, just tear up the one-year franchise tag, walk away, and say we're riding with Andy Dalton this year?

Speaker 4 I think that's not going to happen, but

Speaker 4 it is definitely a little bit of leverage on the Cowboys side.

Speaker 1 It's also a great time to be able to write one of those stories about Andy Dalton going back to Texas, TCU,

Speaker 1 from Texas, I think, so we can do the whole storyline there. Yeah, well,

Speaker 4 if he gets in a big game, I just want Andy Dalton to be in a big game with jerry jones hopes and dreams resting on his shoulders and just have jerry jones like in the in the corner box and maybe have an andy dalton mic'd up that really would just be all i need you could just say andy dalton's mic'd up and not put a microphone on him and just play the silence and be like here it is here's andy dalton getting real emotional with it uh i respect the move on andy dalton's part because i think he probably could have gotten as much if not more money to go down to jacksonville and reunite with jay grudin but this it's very clearly a move of i want to just go back home to where i'm from which i i respect the hell out of that back when i was living in austin i was uh i was hiring for a job and this dude came in i was like why'd you want to apply for this job and he said uh he went on google maps and saw that this office was right next to his house and so he decided to apply to work there and i was like done hired

Speaker 4 because i knew he was going to suck and i would i would be better than him at the job um but it's i respect that move a lot. We can all sympathize with not wanting to have to deal with a commute.

Speaker 1 So the Andy Dalton news happened, and then the only other NFL news we had was the Bears officially decided not to pick up Mitch Trubisky's fifth year, which I think we all sort of expected.

Speaker 1 But I'm just going to do this. Instead of talking about Mitch, let's just talk about how bad the 2017 draft was at the top.
It was Miles Garrett, good, but also has a temper problem.

Speaker 1 Mitch Trubisky, bad. Solomon Thomas, bad.
Leonard Fournette, bad. Corey Davis, bad.
Everyone stinks. So, you know what? The Bears really just were average.
They didn't be average.

Speaker 1 I left at the top. I only had the first five.
I only had the first five.

Speaker 4 Well, as far as the first five goes, yeah, it turns out that the teams that were drafted. John Ross.

Speaker 1 John Ross came after that.

Speaker 4 Job drafting at the top that year.

Speaker 4 John Ross. Here's a spin zone for you.
He's never played in a prove it year.

Speaker 4 Maybe he's just like a guy that needs that extra motivation.

Speaker 1 If you don't think I've had the thought that Mitch Trubisky is going to somehow have an incredible year and then

Speaker 1 hold the Bears over the negotiating table and just be like, go ahead, pay me.

Speaker 1 And then go back to sucking after the Bears pay him. That is, of course, how it's going to happen.

Speaker 4 Would you rather that? Or he kicks ass this year and then he looks at not getting that fifth year as disrespect and then he goes to, let's say, the Lions.

Speaker 4 And then he beats your ass.

Speaker 1 It's all going to end poorly. I don't know how, but it will.

Speaker 5 he's gonna end up being good somehow speaking of bears was this was this picture of big ben with a bear real

Speaker 4 i think so i'm gonna choose to believe that it's real because he looks like a mountain man

Speaker 1 what i didn't see this oh yeah big ben

Speaker 4 killed the shit out of a black bear oh yeah then it's definitely real

Speaker 4 because he looks he looks like a dude that has been lost in a hunting retreat for the last 18 months. So it doesn't shock me at all that he would take down a bear.

Speaker 1 He could have been an extra in Revenant. Oh, dude, Big Ben, why you gotta kill that bear, man?

Speaker 4 He could have been an extra in Revenant as a bear.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I'm stuck double.

Speaker 1 I feel bad for that bear. He's like, the bear's like looking right in our face.
Like, yo, what's up, dudes? I'm dead.

Speaker 4 You know what occurred to me the other day? The only time we get upset about a big animal getting killed is if the animal had a name beforehand.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah.

Speaker 1 Oscar Lion.

Speaker 5 Our sweet prince. Don't even say his name.

Speaker 4 Our sweet prince.

Speaker 1 Dude,

Speaker 1 I totally didn't realize this, but did you realize that Slim Bowler had his golf clubs in his courtroom sketch? That is awesome.

Speaker 4 He came off the links into the courtroom. Was he wearing his spikes?

Speaker 1 Look at that.

Speaker 4 That is so fucking cool.

Speaker 1 He had the courtrooms. I don't...

Speaker 1 I mean, that's unbelievable. Or was that like

Speaker 4 was that the artist taunting him? Like, like Alexander Vetchkin getting bounced from the playoffs and they just draw him with his golf clubs.

Speaker 1 That's so fucking funny.

Speaker 4 That's awesome.

Speaker 4 That's better than Tom Brady courtroom sketch.

Speaker 1 Slim bowler, dude. That guy was trouble from the word go.

Speaker 4 I got to take I've been squatting on for a sec. I think the time's right to unleash it.

Speaker 4 With your permission, I will.

Speaker 4 Yeah, go ahead. Permission to deploy.
I think that Blake Bortles is being blackballed by the NFL because he drives a Tesla and because the league sponsors are motor oil companies, Castrol, Haviline,

Speaker 4 other competing rivals against Elon Musk and Tesla. He's going to get a job.
He's probably,

Speaker 1 knowing Blake, he probably has a contract sitting on his kitchen table. He just hasn't gotten around to signing it.

Speaker 4 Like us and the Premier Lacrosse League contracts?

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's

Speaker 1 lesson. Yeah.
Yeah, no, he's going to be fine.

Speaker 4 I hope he's not getting blackballed. No offense to the word bald.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Let's get to our who's back.

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Speaker 1 Okay, Hank, your who's back.

Speaker 5 Speaking of Wills, I watched Who's Knives Out this weekend. It's a good movie.

Speaker 5 My who's back of the week is Mike Tyson.

Speaker 1 Yes. Okay.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I saw that clip.

Speaker 5 So there's been a few clips recently in the past few months of Mike Tyson throwing punches, working out, training. He looks faster than any fighter still today.

Speaker 5 But it brought me to this question.

Speaker 5 People say, like, how much money would it take for you to take a punch from Mike Tyson in his prime how much money would it take you guys to just be his trainer like just to be the guy that has to like potentially get you know have him miss and get hit in the face how much would that cost a hundred thousand dollars for me because I I'm not coordinated enough to remember like all the steps and all the moves I got a terrible short-term memory so I would definitely get knocked out in the first session Yeah, it's the question is actually the same.

Speaker 1 Like, how much would it take to get punched by Mike Tyson? How much would it take to be his trainer? Because you're going to get punched unless you have the skills of a trainer.

Speaker 1 If you just put us in that role, we absolutely would take one to the face. And it probably would suck even more because you wouldn't even be really expecting it.
So it's a lot, a lot of money.

Speaker 1 The one thing with Mike Tyson, he is one of those guys who, even at the end of his career, like you can just talk yourself into if he just catches someone.

Speaker 1 And boxing is that one sport where you can always say to yourself, oh man, it's like when Conor McGregor fought Floyd Mayweather. Like, well, what if he catches him once? What if he catches him once?

Speaker 1 Mike Tyson, even at the end, when he was clearly, like, done and washed up, you're like, well, if he just catches Lennox Lewis once here, it could be lights out.

Speaker 1 So I'd still buy a pay-per-view with Mike Tyson fighting anyone just so that I could convince myself he'd have that one shot in and it'd be lights out.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that clip of him when he was training, it's almost scarier watching Mike Tyson when he's in between punches and he's just like bobbing and weaving and moving his huge ass back and shoulders back and forth.

Speaker 4 That's almost more intimidating than the punches because when the punches hit the mitts, you can be a shitty boxer, but if you make like really good contact with one of those training pads, it sounds awesome.

Speaker 1 It sounds like

Speaker 1 it's about the trainer throwing the pad into the punch as well. Yeah.
Giving it a little like pop. Yeah, it's like going.
There you go, champ.

Speaker 1 It's like a great catcher being able to pop that glove when you throw, you know, like a 65 mile an hour fastball.

Speaker 4 Yeah, framing it too a little bit. Yeah, hit that one square on the head.
I think I would rather get my ear bitten off right now by Mike Tyson than take a punch from him.

Speaker 1 That's actually a funny idea to think about, like, who are the simps of sports? The trainer in boxing, the catcher? Like, who can prop up their man as he's trying to look awesome?

Speaker 5 Center.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the center.

Speaker 1 Just prop them up. Make them be the king.
Uh-huh.

Speaker 4 Yeah, definitely the holdback coach on the sidelines.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the holder

Speaker 1 in kicking, in football, definitely. And the lawyer.
I feel like there's not really a simp position in basketball.

Speaker 1 caddy on the golf course no simp position in basketball like a really good uh point guard throwing perfect passes to guys like you know cutting to the lane yeah but they're still getting shine for that alley oops though yeah i guess they do get shines but but maybe maybe actually centers centers caddies all those other positions are true just simp positions guys throw guys who just uh run picks left and right and don't really roll they don't have hands to roll the guy that runs out onto the court he he doesn't even have the lidman mop.

Speaker 4 He's just got the towel, and he has to wipe down the floor with his hand and a towel in between plays.

Speaker 1 You know who's a simp? Clint Capella. Because he runs the pick and roll, but when he runs a pick and roll and actually gets the dunk, it's because someone has given him a great pass.

Speaker 1 So he kind of is in a no-win situation where either he runs the pick and

Speaker 1 the person who's, you know, he's running it for shoots and scores, and he's the simp, or he rolls and he just catches it right in front of the hoop and dunks.

Speaker 5 Right, but my point was more like simps. Like, no one knows, besides David Andrews, you don't know any centers' names, you don't know the caddy centers.

Speaker 5 Like, there's a lot of right, but for the most part, like, you know every basketball player's name.

Speaker 5 There are some positions where it's just like you don't know, and you never will know who that guy is.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, there's all simps on the basketball, on the basketball court, there's like the backup power forward that comes in just to give fouls, and his like his teammate fouls somebody, but it's his responsibility to hold his hand up and be like, no, that one was on me.

Speaker 4 Like, taking fouls for another man. Yeah, Mark Titus.

Speaker 1 Mark Titus is a simp in a basketball game.

Speaker 5 In a basketball game. A trillion.
Anyone that can get a trillion.

Speaker 1 Yeah. All right, PFT, who's your who's back?

Speaker 4 My who's back of the week is NFL announcing the release date of their schedule release date.

Speaker 4 So this is one of the best traditions in sports. It always happens right after the Masters is over, like this time of year when the NFL comes out.

Speaker 4 And they don't say that they're releasing the schedule, but they do say that they are about to announce when the schedule release date is going to be.

Speaker 4 And so today on Sunday, they announced that it was going to take place later on this week with an announcement to come later about when that exact day of when the schedule release will be released.

Speaker 1 I feel like usually on a Thursday, which would be great because then we can break down the whole schedule. Also, huge for this weekend.

Speaker 1 You know, I don't know. People are like tuning into the news because there's really nothing going on now.
We're just kind of stuck.

Speaker 1 But Florio did have a report where, and Florio is definitely like clued in and talking to the right people that it's basically a zero percent chance, not a zero percent chance, but like almost a zero percent chance that there's no football this fall.

Speaker 1 And not only that, but the NFL is fully planning on having fans as well. So it was one of those quiet, like, hey, this seems good.
What are you looking at at me like that, Hank?

Speaker 4 The NFL is speaking speaking it into existence. It's great.
Like, they're just saying we're going full send on this season. We're going to announce the schedule.

Speaker 4 There's not going to be any Saturday games because you know what? They're banking on college football existing in the fall, too. So it's a little bit of good news that was buried a little bit.

Speaker 4 And I agree with the big cat. It's usually on a Thursday.
So part of my take is announcing that the NFL schedule announcement is going to take place on Thursday.

Speaker 1 And then we'll proportion on every single

Speaker 1 game.

Speaker 4 Yeah, just speak it into existence, NFL. If you just keep going on, like, it's going to happen.
I believe you that it's going to happen. My other, who's back of the week, is the mountain.

Speaker 4 The mountain from Game of Thrones is back. He set the world record in deadlift on Saturday morning.
He deadlift 1,100 pounds. Sorry, 1,104 pounds.
So he beat the world record by, I think, like

Speaker 4 one kilogram, whatever that is. That's probably like 10 pounds.
I don't know.

Speaker 5 Did you see that? Still couldn't beat the hound even with the high ground, though.

Speaker 1 True. It's true.

Speaker 4 It's true. We all know that.

Speaker 1 Did you see ESPN did a

Speaker 1 what does that correlate into like random things? Kind of a Revell tweet. 4.4, or sorry, 4 J.J.
Watts, 16 golden retrievers, 32 Stanley Cup trophies. But here's the one that I don't get.

Speaker 1 789 basketballs. I feel like I could pick up 789 basketballs.
Basketballs weigh nothing.

Speaker 4 Basketballs, they weigh more when they're deflated than they do when they're full, right?

Speaker 1 I don't think that that can physically be possible.

Speaker 4 Yeah, but I know it's not possible at all, but you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 Like, you would think, like how we were saying on on the last show, that the weights that are made out of metal weigh more than the exact same weights that are made out of rubber.

Speaker 1 Yes, that I agree with you.

Speaker 4 With a basketball, a deflated basketball looks a lot heavier than a full basketball.

Speaker 1 But I'm saying 789 basketballs that are fully inflated.

Speaker 1 I feel like if you had asked me before this, how many basketballs could you pick up, I would have said at least 300, which I can't clearly now, because that's like 500 pounds.

Speaker 1 But I don't know, that one fucked up.

Speaker 4 I think you could do 300 basketballs.

Speaker 1 And it's like 500 pounds.

Speaker 4 When you put it in the terms of how much is that basketball that you're holding right now, Way Hank,

Speaker 1 nothing, nothing, nothing

Speaker 1 exactly.

Speaker 1 You break 300 of those. That's crazy.
789 of those, no problem.

Speaker 4 You know what? They should actually do these powerlifting sports with the golden retrievers one, though. Like, so many more people would watch.

Speaker 4 If you're having bad ratings, just like load up clear boxes filled with happy golden retrievers on each side and pick them up.

Speaker 1 Although that would be what or J.

Speaker 4 Yeah, have just clone JJ Watt a bunch of times and

Speaker 4 have him just get picked up by things. But yeah, it was crazy.

Speaker 4 Seeing a dude lift 1,100 pounds, and the dude that he passed was a guy named Eddie Hall.

Speaker 4 And when Eddie Hall set the previous deadlift record, he picked it up and he flexed on the haters and just stood at the top of his lift for like six seconds.

Speaker 4 And then he started spontaneously bleeding from his nose and he passed out. And I think he went home and slept for like 20 hours just from lifting that one thing up.
Half of his heart rate.

Speaker 1 His heart rate was so off the charts that the doctors thought that their machine was broken. They kept on testing his heart rate, and he was just bleeding out of his eyes and his nose.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah, he like contracted. He gave himself a bola from lifting too much of a heavy weight.

Speaker 1 But halfway to the gym, it looked like he could have done more.

Speaker 4 Good call, Hank.

Speaker 1 Very good.

Speaker 1 Okay, my who's back of the week is

Speaker 1 saying we're taking back our fears, guys. The murder hornet.
I saw the story. Everyone's getting freaking out about the murder hornet.
I think it's because there's just nothing else going on.

Speaker 1 I'm officially done with being sick. Wait, where is the murder hornet? The murder hornet is some fucking hornet in Japan that can kill a bunch of bees.
You know who else can kill a bunch of bees? Me.

Speaker 1 I can kill a bunch of bees. I could swat a bunch of bees in one second.
And everyone's like, well, it's got spikes and all this shit. Fuck the murder hornet.

Speaker 1 If I can kill something with a newspaper, it's not a problem. It's not a problem.

Speaker 5 I'd rather be Mike Tyson's trainer or stuck in a room with one single murder hornet.

Speaker 1 The murder hornet. I'd fuck the murder hornet up.
I would fuck the murder hornet up. The problem with the murder hornet, this is why I selected the murder hornet.
You didn't select the murder hornet.

Speaker 1 You just selected a hornet. I selected

Speaker 1 the murder hornet. Is the murder hornet a hornet? No.
No, it's not a hornet. It's a different type of bear.
It's a buzzy bear, black bear. A hornet.

Speaker 4 I said a hornet.

Speaker 1 This is a single hornet.

Speaker 4 Therefore, it counts. The murder hornet, the reason why I picked the hornet in the first place is because it was the only one that I just wanted to annoy somebody, right?

Speaker 4 Like, having one hornet probably isn't going to kill you, but nothing's going to piss you off more than having, like, just not seeing anything coming and just getting stung by a fucking hornet.

Speaker 4 That's the worst. That'll ruin your day.
That'll ruin your day way more than having to deal with, like, a

Speaker 1 mountain lion walking past you. You just picked a regular hornet.
I picked a hornet.

Speaker 1 What do you say?

Speaker 5 How about this?

Speaker 1 Well, then you have to specify the bears, too. We specified bears.
We specified everything else.

Speaker 4 I thought you said a bear.

Speaker 1 No, I think we said grizzly bear, black bear.

Speaker 5 No, I think this is definitely a single. This is a single hornet that could kill you.

Speaker 5 But Big Cat, would you rather be Mike Tyson's trainer or be locked in a room with a single murderous hornet, but you don't know where it is when you start, when you walk in?

Speaker 1 The hornet?

Speaker 1 Guys, why are we afraid of a fucking like juiced up bee? Get the fuck out of here. More people die from bee stings every year than hornets.
This murder hornet.

Speaker 5 This sounds like when you said you would contract Corona. Yeah,

Speaker 1 it does. Guess what? And I'm fine.
I'm fine.

Speaker 1 I will face this murder hornet. I'm sick of letting everyone.
Fear porn has become the number one industry in America right now. It's fucking

Speaker 1 the coronavirus causing strokes. And then they're like, hey, guess what? Maybe it only happens like once every thousand, hundred thousand people, but you should probably check it out.

Speaker 1 There could be strokes. We're all going to die.
Everything's going to, there's too much meat. The oil is, there's too much oil.
We're going to burn ourselves with oil.

Speaker 1 They'd have the Antarctica shells fucking disappearing. Murder hornets are coming.
Fuck everything. I'm done letting fear take over my life.

Speaker 4 Dude, the murder hornet, the fear is totally justified. No, it's not with the murder hornet.
It is. You know why? It's not because they'll necessarily fuck you up, big cat.

Speaker 4 But if you're a beekeeper, it goes, it kills your entire hive.

Speaker 1 We're already dealing with bee colony collapse.

Speaker 4 Colony collapse is a real issue.

Speaker 1 And if colony collapse continues at the same pace that it's been over the last six months, according to the internet fear porn Twitter follows that I follow, then our entire world world's going to blow up so it's such a joke man what about the pollen big cat dude people people have just become sick they're sick they just love to just get everyone scared about everything ever i'm done with i'm the only one that's standing up for bees i'm done with it I'm done with being scared about random things that get posted in a fucking New York Times article just so that everyone can send it around to each other and be like, oh my God, look at what's happening now.

Speaker 1 Tomorrow it's going to be a new thing. I don't care.
I'm done being afraid. I'm taking back fear.

Speaker 4 You know what's crazy is, is, you know, how we're overdue on that super volcano that exists underneath Yellowstone?

Speaker 1 Ashley,

Speaker 4 we're also way overdue on the article reminding us about how we're overdue on the super volcano underneath Yellowstone. That's going to be the next one up.

Speaker 4 It's like, hey, 2020 couldn't get bad enough. Guess what? They also never caught the guy that sent that anthrax out.

Speaker 1 Like, we're going to have to recycle a lot of these old fear porn stuff that haven't made their way to the top of the news cycle recently yep terrorists haven't been around for a while we're gonna have to have another one of those you know scare tactics like oh there's terror cells everywhere coming to kill us all i'm surprised we haven't seen an article where it's like you know what the vaccine is eating little babies all this shit it's just it's just ruining all of our brains our brains are becoming diseased rotten fear just

Speaker 1 things just on top of our shoulders and it's it's just bullshit i saw some article today where they're like they actually think the coronavirus is mutating so much we won't get a vaccine shut up yes we will i'm also seeing people saying that uh that bill gates is trying to kill everybody with his vaccine that he's created this is you know things have gotten out of hand i've been on that train going back to our first deep dive with billy football when you're afraid of bill gates when you're afraid of that little nerd that couldn't even make windows 2000 correctly if you think that he's going to be able to murder billions of people using a vaccine now you're the one who's dealing who's trafficking in in fear porn i'm done with it i'm done with it i'm saying goodbye to it.

Speaker 1 I'm taking back my life. I will not be shocked by any stupid article that tells me there's one in a billion chance that I'm going to die from some fucking little bee that's flying around in Japan.

Speaker 4 That's it.

Speaker 4 It killed 10 people last year.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 Damn.

Speaker 1 How many people have died because they couldn't get to their EpiPen quick enough?

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 Macaulay Talking. Yes, lots.

Speaker 1 All right, let's get to our interview. We got Horace Grant talk some awesome MJ stories, being on the three-peat, the first three-peat for the Bulls, playing on the Magic, the Lakers.

Speaker 1 He has so much history. Great interview with him.
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Speaker 1 Okay, now, Horace Grant.

Speaker 1 Okay, we now welcome on a very special guest. It is four-time NBA champion Horace Grant.

Speaker 1 Horace, thank you for joining us. It's everyone's obviously talking about the last dance.
We want to talk about your entire career, but let's start start there.

Speaker 1 And what has it been like to watch, to go back in time and see all this stuff, see a young Horace Grant, see all of the stories be retold on a national stage?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 looking back on it, reminiscing, if you will,

Speaker 1 kind of making me wish I was 22, 23 again. You know,

Speaker 1 it was some great years.

Speaker 1 We had a fun time, a great run there in Chicago.

Speaker 1 But just

Speaker 1 the camaraderie that

Speaker 1 we had as a team, the confidence that we had as a team when we got out there on the floor.

Speaker 4 So you've been watching the series. Is there anything that's been on so far? I know we're only, what, four episodes in right now? I assume you've probably seen the whole thing.
Is that right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I've seen all of all the episodes except well, I got the pre-copies. So I've seen most of it, yeah.

Speaker 4 Gotcha. Is there anything so far in the series that you've seen that you think was told in a different way than you remembered experiencing it at the time?

Speaker 1 The first four episodes,

Speaker 1 not really, not anything in particular.

Speaker 1 I didn't know that Doug and Michael got along that well, but Doug Todd was our coach for about a year, year and a half.

Speaker 1 I didn't know they got along that well, but the documentary shows that they were best friends. Well, I actually, this is a good

Speaker 1 spot to bring it up because I know five and six, we're going to run this on Monday after five and six.

Speaker 1 And I saw at least the clip that ESPN put out about five and six, they're addressing the Jordan Rules book, the famous book that everyone should go out and read,

Speaker 1 which does have a part about how, you know, MJ doesn't, you know, doesn't go back to Chicago for a practice and blows Doug Collins off Christmas Eve. But MJ

Speaker 1 accuses you, obviously, of being one of the sources for the Jordan Rules book. Are you

Speaker 1 have you guys had a conversation about that since

Speaker 1 he's accused you of that? Have you talked it through?

Speaker 1 Because from my perspective, that was a book that had to be written by a lot of people talking, and you might have been one of them, but there had to be a lot of people who were speaking on that.

Speaker 1 Guys,

Speaker 1 that is so untrue. that

Speaker 1 that is just like a a blank just a blank lie um

Speaker 1 sam sam smith quoted myself beard cartwright john paxon and a whole bunch of others in that book

Speaker 1 and what he quoted us is what we said

Speaker 1 and for for mj to say i was the source of this book that's a lie that's a downright lie and he knows that that.

Speaker 1 And, you know, come to think of it,

Speaker 1 Sam Smith

Speaker 1 spent more time with

Speaker 1 Bill, Pax,

Speaker 1 Tex Winner, Johnny Bach,

Speaker 1 even MJ. He spent time with MJ, played golf with, played.
uh golf a few times with mj was in mj room so i don't know where that comp that that i was

Speaker 1 the source behind the book. That's a straight up lie.
So let me ask you this as a follow-up because it's fascinating.

Speaker 1 A lot of times we're watching this and everyone's saying, well, could you imagine social media error? Like, what would it look like if we knew some of these things are going on?

Speaker 1 But the Sam Smith book kind of was what like the social media error is now in that we got an inside look of a team and some of the dirty stuff and some of the, you know, behind the scenes stuff and it was a big big deal did it change the locker room at all did you feel your relationship change with michael at all after that book comes out

Speaker 1 well mike and i really didn't have a great relationship we had we respected each other um as teammates um in terms of uh

Speaker 1 us having one goal and that one goal was to win championship.

Speaker 1 We didn't hang out that much off the court. He had his his set of friends.
I had my set of friends.

Speaker 1 You know, only person I really hung out with was, you know, Scotty.

Speaker 1 I mean, we were at places together all the time. So as far as changing,

Speaker 1 I think you have to ask MJ that question because, you know, we won't close at all

Speaker 1 during that,

Speaker 1 especially when that book came out.

Speaker 4 Did you reach out to him when it came out and he said all this stuff about you? You try to clear the air up?

Speaker 4 Or did you know that he was just saying that, knowing it wasn't true because you know he had his ulterior motives or he wanted to explain away some parts of it?

Speaker 1 I mean, I have, I've never read the book, I don't think it's good for the team.

Speaker 1 Is it good? Yeah,

Speaker 1 kudos to Sam. Kudos to Sam.

Speaker 1 I don't know if anybody on the team read it either, but

Speaker 1 during that time, but I think

Speaker 1 MJ already had his mind made up in terms of

Speaker 1 who he thought

Speaker 1 the source was for Sam to write their book. And, you know, like I said, you know, MJ and I never saw eye to eye on a whole bunch of things.

Speaker 1 And maybe he wanted to say that, you know,

Speaker 1 I was the guy.

Speaker 1 So my teammate can look, my teammates can look at me in a different way.

Speaker 1 But, you know,

Speaker 1 I'm the type of guy that, you know, if you come at me

Speaker 1 the wrong

Speaker 1 you know it's not going to happen right you know if no it's not going to happen i'm i'm cut from a different cloth you know i'm gonna say as a man what i have to say and then we can go from there so uh but no i i didn't have anything um in terms of the sensitivity um

Speaker 1 um from that locker room going into sam's boat no i did not So knowing that you guys weren't the best of friends, as you just said, and I think a lot of people know, but I think MJ always had respect for you.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 how did you gain that respect? Because, like, we hear the stories all the time about how he would test all of his teammates.

Speaker 1 And you hear stories about some teammates getting traded or being gone because they couldn't stand up for themselves when they were being tested. Was there a moment in time?

Speaker 1 Because I know even going back, like when you got drafted,

Speaker 1 he didn't want Jerry Krauss to draft you. So he called you dummy, right? Basically your first year.

Speaker 1 Well, he called me a whole bunch of things my first year. And believe me, I called him a whole bunch of things too as a rookie.

Speaker 1 You know, when you come into a situation like that and you know that,

Speaker 1 you know, the star player on that team didn't want you.

Speaker 1 You got a chip on your shoulder you got something to prove. And, you know, I worked my butt off.
I mean, my mentor was Charles Oakley. Man, I mean, what a great human being.

Speaker 1 When I say that, and I say that sincere.

Speaker 1 He taught me so much, especially in practice. He used to kick my butt, you know, over 60, 80% of the time in practice.
But I learned from him.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I just kept working, man. And, you know, I guess you can say the rest is history.

Speaker 4 Yeah, was there a moment, because I feel like Charles Oakley might even be a guy where it's harder to gain his respect in a sense than MJ because Oakley was a tough dude, still is a tough dude.

Speaker 4 Was there a moment in practice when you were like, I don't know if I can hang with this guy?

Speaker 1 Man, that was almost every day. I mean, in terms of the physicality,

Speaker 1 the pushing, the shoving.

Speaker 1 You know, he, you know, I could have laid down,

Speaker 1 but I know that

Speaker 1 being around Oak, all those

Speaker 1 moments that

Speaker 1 I couldn't quit, I had to stand up and do whatever I had to do to show him that

Speaker 1 I could earn his respect.

Speaker 4 One of the best parts of the documentary so far was your reaction to that Pistons series where they walked off the court, didn't shake your hand. I think you called them little bitches.

Speaker 4 Have you heard from anybody on the Pistons about that?

Speaker 1 Well, you know, the ironic thing about that was

Speaker 1 I never knew that what MJ said about the Pistons.

Speaker 1 I guess after game three,

Speaker 1 you know, saying they didn't deserve

Speaker 1 to be champion. They messed the game up and all of that.

Speaker 1 If I had known that, I don't think I would have called them bitches. I would have said crybabies.
But to answer your question,

Speaker 1 I talked to Isaiah Thomas, and we had a great, great conversation, man. I mean, and

Speaker 1 I see Isaiah all the time at All-Star Weekend.

Speaker 1 I mean, we have great conversations. So we had a great conversation

Speaker 1 about everything,

Speaker 1 and it's cool. I just put it that way.

Speaker 1 That moment where you guys beat the Pistons and knowing everything that had come before that, like, I actually was kind of shocked they didn't go deeper into the migraine game, the Scotty migraine game, knowing that you were so close with Scotty.

Speaker 1 What was Michael's reaction to that? Because you can still see it on his face that he doesn't really believe that Scotty had a migraine.

Speaker 1 And that probably speaks to his psychopath, you know, competitiveness where he's like, nothing could ever stop me.

Speaker 1 When that happens, are you, you know, right after the game, are you like, yes, Scotty clearly had a migraine?

Speaker 1 Or do you side with MJ a little bit and be like, it's crazy he wasn't able to compete in game seven?

Speaker 1 Listen, when you have migraines, and I had a couple of migraines, when you have migraines, man, you can, you're, it's blurry, you can't see, the noise is crazy.

Speaker 1 There's no way Skyder could have functioned out there with those migraines. And he did have a migraine, man.

Speaker 1 And for

Speaker 1 us,

Speaker 1 I mean, for the people

Speaker 1 who second-guess that,

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't know if you can say, you know, you know, they can kiss my ass. You know, that's crazy, man.

Speaker 1 And for, and I saw when they asked MJ about that, and he licked his lip and smirked a little bit.

Speaker 1 The dude, that was your sidekick. That was your second in command.

Speaker 1 He had a migraine. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's my thing. So

Speaker 1 I want to move on to the rest of your career besides the three-peat, but I wanted to, I was wondering, like, what's the moment in the three-peat

Speaker 1 that sticks out the most to you? Or what series sticks out the most to you? Obviously,

Speaker 1 my favorite, you know, Horace Grant moment is the Suns, the block on KJ, the extra pass to Paxton and the possession before. But when you think back, like, what's that moment for you?

Speaker 1 Well, that moment, man,

Speaker 1 I would have to say that was a great moment,

Speaker 1 me personally, but as a team, I would have to say the Portland series when,

Speaker 1 you know, the starters, we weren't up to par and Phil took us out. I think he just kept Scotty, took me and MJ out and put the bench in and that bench brought us all the way back.

Speaker 1 I think that was one of my proudest moments because

Speaker 1 it was teamwork. I mean, it just proves to you in practice, I mean, the first guy is important.
the number 12 guy is important because we pushed each other in practice.

Speaker 1 And when that time came for us, for our teammates to come in and carry us, from Stacey King, Scott Williams, Bobby Hansen, all the guys came in and did their job.

Speaker 4 Would you say that that moment is better than when Puff Daddy dropped your name and said, I'm trying to get my hands on some Grants like Horace and all about the Benjamins?

Speaker 1 Hey,

Speaker 1 well,

Speaker 1 I would say

Speaker 1 the bull, but I still get my hands on the Grant Play artist. That's got to be like a surreal moment, right?

Speaker 4 It's like Puff Daddy, who was like the world's biggest rapper at the time, just name checks you in his biggest song. That's some serious clout.

Speaker 1 Hey, man,

Speaker 1 when

Speaker 1 the super rappers like Puff Daddy P. Diddy, drops your name in one of his songs, you made it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 Did you get any residuals off that? You ever like, hey, Puff Daddy, how about you throw me a couple grants?

Speaker 1 Shit, I'm still waiting for the check, man.

Speaker 1 So, so I'm curious, the 94 team, the team that Michael goes and plays baseball, great team, 55 wins, all-time series against the Knicks.

Speaker 1 Is that, you know, was that series, because you guys are trying to prove something. Was that series the hardest series you played in? Was that series, you know, the most you've ever wanted something?

Speaker 1 Because that, you know, there's so many famous moments from it. But that series, to me, like you and Scotty were like, we got to prove something here.
We're trying to go for a four-peat.

Speaker 1 It was like being out in a desert and you walk for hours without water and you want that water. That's how bad not just me and Scotty, but myself, BJ, Pete Myers,

Speaker 1 all of us on that team wanted that championship so badly

Speaker 1 because during that time with MJ,

Speaker 1 of course, he deserved all the

Speaker 1 accolades and the attention, all of that. He deserved because he was our leader and our best player.

Speaker 1 But we were called the Jordanaiers,

Speaker 1 and that was okay. But still,

Speaker 1 we knew that we had something to prove, not just to

Speaker 1 ourselves, but to basically the whole world that we were capable of

Speaker 1 definitely being professional and winning the championship.

Speaker 1 Do you think Scotty fouled Hubert Davis?

Speaker 1 No chance.

Speaker 1 There's no chance in hell that Hubert Davis.

Speaker 1 No disrespect to Hubert.

Speaker 1 But there is no way that Scotty Pippins fouled Hubert Davis. That series actually could be its own 30 for 30 because it had the Scotty sitting out, Tony Kukoch hitting the game winner.

Speaker 1 It had a fight that basically changed the rules of fighting in the NFL and the NBA. It had that Hubert Davis thing.
It had

Speaker 1 the Ewing dunk, Pippin on Ewing. Like, it had everything.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 if someone wanted to make a 30 for 30, that would be the series, man. I mean, in terms of

Speaker 1 dunking on Ewing, the fight, as you said,

Speaker 1 that non-foul,

Speaker 1 you know, that was one of the toughest, toughest

Speaker 1 situations I've ever been in, seeing that so-called foul.

Speaker 4 So the end of that game, when Tony Kukoch gets the last shot and Scotty says, take me out of the game, you're good friends with Scotty Pippen.

Speaker 4 To see him do something like that during a game where, I mean, everybody on the outside was talking about it. If it happened now, Skip Bayless wouldn't shut up about it for probably three months.

Speaker 4 But at the time, you're his good friend.

Speaker 4 After that game's over, do you talk to him? You're like, hey, Scotty, what the hell is going on? Why'd you do that? Or did you have his back?

Speaker 1 Oh, we had some conversation, man.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 a question

Speaker 1 to the public out there.

Speaker 1 Scotty's our best player in the MVP candidate. I mean, a candidate.

Speaker 1 If

Speaker 1 Michael Jordan, if MJ was on that team,

Speaker 1 would Phil Jackson give Scotty the ball? I mean, with Scotty said, Scotty, okay, we're going to run this play for you.

Speaker 1 No, probably not. Probably not.

Speaker 4 He might say, Scotty might be open, and if he's open, you can pass it. But I think, yeah, he'd give the ball to Jordan.

Speaker 1 Exactly. But saying that,

Speaker 1 there's no excuse for Pip to sit down like that.

Speaker 1 There was no excuse.

Speaker 1 But we know in the heat of the battle, things happen.

Speaker 1 And we addressed it as a team, as a team after the game. And the Pip

Speaker 1 apologized

Speaker 1 immensely

Speaker 1 for not getting out there on that court with his team. And we let it go.

Speaker 1 We let it go. because we knew and he knew that he was in the wrong.

Speaker 1 What I've always wondered from that play in the huddle, did anyone mention that you had run that play earlier in the year, the exact play for a game winner?

Speaker 1 Because that feels like that would have been the moment, like, hey, dude, it worked before. Scotty Tuku coach, game winner.

Speaker 1 See, we didn't, we didn't think about that. Yeah, I mean, it's 25 years later, so it's easier for me to say it.
Right.

Speaker 1 Hey, but, but, but, but, but the thing is that

Speaker 1 we won the game and Phil was a genius. And I'm pretty sure if Scotty could have relived that moment, he would have been out there throwing Tony the ball.

Speaker 1 Okay, so that's a good segue to Phil, because if you don't win that game, Phil is just ripped apart for having someone other than Scotty Pippen take that shot.

Speaker 1 You played for Phil with the Bulls and the Lakers.

Speaker 1 What is it about Phil Jackson's coaching style that keeps teams together? and we see all this stuff with Dennis Rodman and having them all work together.

Speaker 1 What does he do that's different than the other coaches you've had in your career?

Speaker 1 Man,

Speaker 1 for a guy to,

Speaker 1 I don't want to say control, but have all these egos

Speaker 1 in check.

Speaker 1 I mean, a freaking genius. He would let you be your own person,

Speaker 1 have your own personality.

Speaker 1 You can go out and party. You can do whatever you want to do.

Speaker 1 But it has to be in the confines and the concept of when you step on that court,

Speaker 1 you have to play your role

Speaker 1 and do your job

Speaker 1 and play that role well. And that's what he did.
He never tried to put us in a box or anything of that nature.

Speaker 4 One thing about that bulls run that you guys had is there were a lot of really good defensive players on those teams. Really, really good defensive players.

Speaker 4 And it seems to me like getting everybody to buy in and keep playing tough defense, even when you're going for a four-peat, you know, after you've had a three-peat.

Speaker 4 And when you're in LA, having those great teams and keeping them playing at a high level defensively, it takes some good motivational skills as a coach to be able to encourage that during the year.

Speaker 4 So was it like a

Speaker 4 fear thing?

Speaker 4 Did you know, like, if I, if I don't, you know, go hard on defense this game, I might, you know, see my minutes reduced, or was it more about accountability to, you know, Jordan and Pippin, who were also good defensive players?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 we know during those championship years that

Speaker 1 in order to be successful and win championship,

Speaker 1 you have to play defense. You have to stop the other team from scoring.

Speaker 1 And we were so in tune with each other

Speaker 1 that when MJ or or Scotty

Speaker 1 went for a steal and they didn't get it, they knew I had their back.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 say, if I didn't, if I slipped up, I know Bill Cartwright was back there. He had my back.

Speaker 1 So we had that

Speaker 1 continuity with each other out there and that confidence with each other.

Speaker 1 And the late, great Johnny Bach was a

Speaker 1 tremendous defensive-minded coach, man. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, your career is so fascinating to me because you've been part of some of the most interesting teams in NBA history. You were part of the Ascent of Jordan, the Three Pete Bulls.

Speaker 1 You're part of the Penny Shaq Magic and then the Shaq Kobe Lakers. So, can I play a little what if with you? Because I feel like you're the best person to answer some of these.

Speaker 1 Absolutely, guys. Go ahead.

Speaker 1 What if Nick Anderson makes a free throw in game one against the Rockets?

Speaker 1 That would be my fourth championship. You think so? Really? You think you win that game? Well, you win that game, and you guys then keep the confidence rolling?

Speaker 1 We win that game.

Speaker 1 Our confidence will be here.

Speaker 1 And then we just carry over

Speaker 1 with that young team that we had with Shaq, Penny, Nick, and Dennis Scott, very young guys at that particular time. And you get a young team confidence,

Speaker 1 man,

Speaker 1 we wouldn't have known that we didn't supposed to beat the great Elijah Juan and Clyde Drexer.

Speaker 1 We wouldn't have known that. We would just have the confidence to go out there and play.

Speaker 1 Okay, so staying on the magic, what if Penny and Shaq get along and figure out a way to get along?

Speaker 1 I would say

Speaker 1 at least two or three championships. I mean, people just, they've forgotten about Penny Hardy.
6'7, 6'8, like a

Speaker 1 Mandik Johnson who can shoot the ball, very athletic. So, I mean, his IQ was off the chart when it came to basketball.

Speaker 4 You also played with three of the greatest shoe guys in the NFL.

Speaker 4 So you played with Jordan, you played with Penny, who had some of the best shoes of the entire 90s, then you played out with Kobe and Shaq at the same time. Did you ever wear your teammate's shoes?

Speaker 4 Did you wear another man's shoes on the court?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 back in that time,

Speaker 1 you didn't make that much money. And if you got a shoe deal,

Speaker 1 I don't care what it was, you were going to wear that particular shoe. I got you.

Speaker 1 Even if it was for $10,000 or $20,000 that you wanted to wear that particular brand.

Speaker 4 So in the documentary, I want to get back to that a little bit because it's been really fascinating.

Speaker 4 Like watching it for the first time, I'm sure you saw it a while ago, but um, in the first couple episodes, and they're kind of going to carry this on, they have to, Jerry Krauss has been the villain of the series so far.

Speaker 4 Was it ever awkward having um, having this guy around, and everyone is just clowning him the entire time, but technically, he's kind of your boss? Did that ever get uncomfortable?

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 I'm from

Speaker 1 the South, and you always would taught to respect people.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 a lot of guys just didn't see him as the boss. He was our boss.

Speaker 1 And a lot of time I agree with a lot of things that Jerry Kraus did. But as far as me saying to Jerry, oh,

Speaker 1 you crumbs and you're this and that.

Speaker 1 That would have never come out of my mouth to Jerry Krauss. No, because he was the GM.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I, you know, I can't speak for anybody else, but none of that ever, ever, ever came out of my mouth.

Speaker 1 How much of that is because he stood tall drafting you instead of the guy that, you know, Dean Smith and Michael Jordan wanted to draft and basically said, no, this is my draft pick.

Speaker 1 It's Horace Grant.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, a lot of people don't know the story,

Speaker 1 and I won't be long-winded on it.

Speaker 1 It was to the last minute.

Speaker 1 For some reason,

Speaker 1 Dean Smith and maybe Michael or whoever kind of convinced Krauss to draft Joe Wolf at the time. And I know Joe Wolf.

Speaker 1 But Doug Collins and the rest of the coaching staff said, no, Horace Grant is our guy. So I've been told, i was told that mr rheinsdorf

Speaker 1 um and uh and jerry kraus went out and jerry uh mr rheinsdorf said to uh uh jerry kraus look if you draft joe wolf basically that's on you everybody in that room want horace grant

Speaker 1 so therefore

Speaker 1 um jerry kraus was a gm but i have to give a lot of a lot of respect to uh to jerry rhinsdorf for kind of hitting. Look, you know, this is gonna be a

Speaker 1 miss or hit for you. So

Speaker 1 that's the story.

Speaker 4 Yeah, do you ever think that you were underestimated at times because you were the rec specs guy?

Speaker 1 Well, when you're playing with two superstars like uh uh Scotty and Michael,

Speaker 1 you know, you're not gonna get the the glory, if you will, um, if you when you you feel that you deserve,

Speaker 1 but give credit to Phil Jackson,

Speaker 1 just

Speaker 1 letting me know how important I was to the team. He relaxed everything, guys.
I'm telling you, he relaxed everything.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I read that

Speaker 4 you so you had the rec specs at the start of your career, which I love. It's an awesome look.
It's a sick look. And you continued to wear them even after you got LASIC eye surgery.

Speaker 4 You were trying to be like an inspiration. Was there any weird adjustment period after you got that surgery where you're still wearing the goggles, but your eyes work?

Speaker 1 No, it was no really, it wasn't a big adjustment at all.

Speaker 1 I mean, when you have grandparents and parents coming up to you that saying that it's because of you that my kids or my grandkids don't get bullied anymore for wearing respect,

Speaker 1 man, I mean,

Speaker 1 that was it in itself in terms of me keeping to wear those. And I just took the corrected lenses out, but it was no big adjustment.

Speaker 1 I got a couple more what-ifs for you. What if MJ doesn't play baseball?

Speaker 1 If MJ didn't play baseball,

Speaker 1 I still would have made that decision based on

Speaker 1 where I can get the best deal because.

Speaker 1 You know, I was 27. They're probably going to be my last big contract.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 If he plays that four-peat year,

Speaker 1 do the Bulls win four in a row?

Speaker 1 And like, how does that change everything?

Speaker 1 And actually, what I really want to know is, because I'm sure we're going to get to this in the documentary, how surprised were you when he decided that he was going to walk away?

Speaker 1 Or did you see it coming? Man, I didn't see that coming at all. I mean, when you, I mean, after winning three championships, I mean, we're ready to defend what is ours.

Speaker 1 And then when he walks away, and I'm like, wow.

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't know if he was just tired or wanted to have a challenge in something else.

Speaker 1 But when he walked away, we were like, oh, wow. Okay.
Now

Speaker 1 we knew as a team.

Speaker 1 What we had to do,

Speaker 1 we had to just work a little harder to try to get that championship taken. Yeah.

Speaker 4 We play this game with every guest that we have. It's called Headline Grab, where we say something and then you give us something and we're going to make a headline and get some big news out of it.

Speaker 4 So I'll rephrase Big Cat's question. How much money in debt was Michael Jordan from gambling when David Stern asked him to take a year off?

Speaker 1 Hey, that's something.

Speaker 1 See,

Speaker 1 I was so oblivious to a whole bunch of things, guys. I'm telling you, because I was about playing basketball partying and going home that was me

Speaker 1 that was me so i i don't know if david stern told me to take a year off um i just know mj loved to to gamble that's what that was i mean

Speaker 1 um even on luggage even on

Speaker 1 uh you know

Speaker 1 uh what color you think that next car is going to be coming down the street.

Speaker 1 So in terms of that, I I don't know if that caused his retirement or not. Would you gamble with him? Would you gamble with him on the plane and everything? Play cards?

Speaker 1 Oh, hell yeah, we did.

Speaker 1 Myself, Pip, Oak,

Speaker 1 Pete, My, I mean, a whole bunch of us was gambling.

Speaker 1 How would you do? What would you say? Are you up or down to MJ in your life gambling?

Speaker 1 Well, I can only say one thing: that

Speaker 1 he ran out of cash one night.

Speaker 1 He didn't have enough cash on him.

Speaker 1 And of course, you know, when you don't have enough cash, you know, we loan each other money. And I think I loaned him about $2,000.

Speaker 1 And of course, I was talking trash every time I gave him about $400, $500.

Speaker 1 And then he got, he was so pissed that the next day he brought $2,000 worth of crispy $100 bills

Speaker 1 back. Gonna pay you back.
Right, right. All right, I got one last what-if if for you uh what happens if you pick up the phone when shaq calls you before he goes to the lakers

Speaker 1 i will beg him

Speaker 1 i will beg him

Speaker 1 i will get on my knees and beg him please stay please stay i will beg him because you that that's whatever the story goes right like you he's deciding and he called you and you missed the call and you never called him back and the next thing you know, he's a Laker.

Speaker 1 Yes. He called me, I think, two or three times.
Oh. And yeah,

Speaker 1 I will never forget this, man.

Speaker 1 If I just hadn't picked up the phone, maybe things would have been different. And I did not pick up the phone.

Speaker 1 And man, and when I heard that he signed with the Lakers,

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 drove from Florida to my mother's house in Georgia. And I stayed there for about two weeks and just depressed as shit, man.

Speaker 1 It was like, it's like, you know, boxing Mike Tyson and he hit you in the gut. Yeah.
That's how I felt at that particular time. All you had to do was pick up.

Speaker 1 Shaq was probably like, I really want to go to the, I really want to stay with the Magic, but I need one person to tell me to stay. And you just didn't pick up your phone.

Speaker 1 And that's why I pick up my phone all the time now. You'd be really good at the Blake of the Year contest.
Yeah, we might have to get you in there.

Speaker 1 That's such a great story, though, that you're sitting there and you just didn't call him back, and the next thing you know, he's on the Lakers.

Speaker 1 You're like, oh, shit, probably should have returned that phone call.

Speaker 1 Exactly, man.

Speaker 4 I'm going to give you a pick one from these three guys. If you're down one score, you're down by one point, okay?

Speaker 4 With half a second left on the clock, who do you want with the ball in their hands putting that shot up?

Speaker 4 I'm going to give you three options: Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, or Shaq gets eight free throws.

Speaker 1 Holy shit,

Speaker 1 and we're down by one, down by one.

Speaker 4 He's just got to make two of them.

Speaker 1 Man, I'm ah,

Speaker 4 it's funny that this is such a tough option.

Speaker 1 Hold up, man. Hey, listen.

Speaker 1 Because I played with Kobe and I've seen what

Speaker 1 I would give that ball to MJ. I would give that ball to MJ because he had made,

Speaker 1 I mean, with me being there for seven years and I've seen the shots that he made.

Speaker 1 But that is a very good question, guys. That was a very good question.
What about Robert Ori?

Speaker 4 What if I put his name in there? Ooh, big shot.

Speaker 1 I would have to say,

Speaker 1 because of many big shots that he made,

Speaker 1 I would have the ball in Michael or

Speaker 4 Kobe hand penetrating and then kicking the big shot Rob, yeah, or have some weird like bank off the backboard, off the side of the rim, and just the ball finds its way to him, and nobody's within five feet of him.

Speaker 1 Hey,

Speaker 1 that's the look of uh Robo Ori, man. Yep, all right, with seven championships.

Speaker 1 So, I have I have another headline grab for you: uh, the Bulls versus your three Pete Bulls versus the Warriors with Kevin Durant.

Speaker 1 Seven game series.

Speaker 1 Everyone's at their peak, so everyone's at their physical peak.

Speaker 1 I would say the Bulls in six. I love that.
Nice. Never gone to a seven-game in the finals.

Speaker 1 No, right.

Speaker 1 Being with the Bulls, we don't believe in seven games in the finals. What about

Speaker 1 against the heat with Dwayne Wade and LeBron? Would you guard LeBron?

Speaker 1 Scotty would probably guard LeBron.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would probably be on Chris Bosch. Yep.

Speaker 1 Yeah, probably on Bosch. But

Speaker 1 I still would say the Bulls

Speaker 1 maybe five or six. Oh, five.
And that's, yeah. Yeah.
Listen, man,

Speaker 1 when

Speaker 1 you got a Micah Jordan and a Scotty Pippen in their prime and a Horace Grant.

Speaker 4 There you go. I mean, big three.

Speaker 1 Our mentality was

Speaker 1 it wasn't that we

Speaker 1 how many games it was going to take, but we were going to kick your ass. Seriously.
I mean,

Speaker 1 this is not being overconfident, but man.

Speaker 1 And plus,

Speaker 1 we could adjust to rules. I don't know if the the

Speaker 1 this generation could adjust to the rules back in the 80s and 90s, how physical it was.

Speaker 4 Yeah, if they have the refs from the 90s, I think you guys sweep them. Maybe gentlemen sweep.
Yes.

Speaker 4 But if they have, I don't know, if it's like Adam Silver getting on the phone and telling people, okay, we need to make this a series.

Speaker 4 We got to bring some money in. Wait, were you on that Lakers team that

Speaker 4 David Stern gave that series away from the Kings to you guys?

Speaker 1 No, no, I was

Speaker 1 in Orlando on that team. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 4 That was bullshit.

Speaker 1 I just want that on the record. I have two last questions for you, Horace.
This has been great.

Speaker 1 The first is when you left and went to the Magic, and then you beat the Bulls with the year that MJ comes back from baseball, you know, only plays 18 games or whatever.

Speaker 1 And then you get carried off on the court. Do you think that was kind of an awkward move? Like, you made fun of the Pistons for ducking the handshakes.

Speaker 1 You got carried off on the shoulders in the second round.

Speaker 1 I told Shaq,

Speaker 1 no, don't do it, brother. No, I don't want.
He was like, man,

Speaker 1 get, no, and I quote Shaq, you better get your ass up here.

Speaker 1 Seriously.

Speaker 1 And I mean,

Speaker 1 no, I mean, that wasn't me. I mean, I don't do things like that, man.
I mean, you can ask anybody who knows, I don't do that.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 then you have Phil Jackson talking. I mean, And I love Phil to this very day.

Speaker 1 And I quote Phil,

Speaker 1 I am going to make you beat us. I'm going to keep you.
I'm going to leave you open. I'm going to make you beat us.

Speaker 1 And you were awesome

Speaker 1 series. Yeah.
You did it. So you deserve to get carried off.

Speaker 1 Carried off. I would have loved to walk off and

Speaker 1 talk shit to Scotty later.

Speaker 1 All right. So my last question, and this is a hilarious thing to look back on, but I just need confirmation that is 100% true.

Speaker 1 You once

Speaker 1 tried to skip practice because Scotty Pippin's cat died and you were mourning the cat.

Speaker 1 Hey, true story. But

Speaker 1 the thing behind that,

Speaker 1 I was still drunk from the night before.

Speaker 1 So that's

Speaker 1 you were really emotional about that cat. You really were in your feels about that cat.

Speaker 1 Listen, hey, when when you have

Speaker 1 quite a few drinks and you still hung over, you still get emotional about certain things. It was a special cat.
It was a great cat.

Speaker 4 And the great part about the cat's just, they have nine times they can die and you can just not die.

Speaker 1 It's the book, the book that I mentioned the book for everyone listening on Monday's show, Blood on the Horns, but it was like Scotty called in and was like, hey, my cat died.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to be in practice today. And 15 minutes later, you called and you're like, hey, Scotty's cat died.
I'm not going to be in practice today.

Speaker 1 Hey, we came in together in 1987, so that was my steal my man. That's friendship, that's deep friendship.
To be like, I'll come and sit and be bros with you when your cat dies.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. I mean,

Speaker 1 the little cat, I mean, we had a bond, we had a great bond, man. What was the cat's name?

Speaker 1 I don't damn

Speaker 1 that. I knew you wouldn't have have that.

Speaker 1 Oh, man.

Speaker 1 I got one more thing for you.

Speaker 4 You're wearing your bull's polo shirt right now.

Speaker 1 I got to wonder,

Speaker 4 you look at that logo from your perspective right now. Have you ever noticed that if the bull's logo is upside down, it's a robot having sex with a crab?

Speaker 1 Look at it.

Speaker 4 A thick crab.

Speaker 1 Yeah, look at it upside down.

Speaker 4 He's dummy thick.

Speaker 1 Damn. Yeah.
That's weird. That's weird as shit.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's also the only logo.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's the only logo in the NBA that's never changed. I think they want to keep it that way.

Speaker 1 Well, okay.

Speaker 1 Just something to think about. Now you're never going to look at the same again.
Hey, that's nothing wrong with the little same sex.

Speaker 1 Well, Horace, thank you so much. We appreciate it, man.
Four-time NBA champion. Some Unreal teams that you played on.

Speaker 1 This has been a ton of fun. Thanks, man.
All right, guys. See ya.

Speaker 4 That interview with Horace Grant was brought to you by Shady Rays. As you guys know, we've been talking about our friends at Shady Rays all year long.

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Speaker 1 Okay, let's get some segments. We have first up, a stay woke for Kim Jong-un.

Speaker 4 Kim Jong-un, he's back. This also could have qualified as a who's back of the week because I guess there were many reports that he had died,

Speaker 4 that he was in hiding. He had a botched heart surgery, that sort of thing.
But bottom line was he disappeared for three weeks, and people speculated he died. Now he's back.

Speaker 4 And they said that he spent his time with 20 women. He has like his own harem that travels with him to service Dear Leader.

Speaker 4 But there is a great conspiracy theory on Reddit that said that his absence just so happened to coincide with the release of the new Final Fantasy game.

Speaker 4 So people are thinking, hey, maybe Kim Jong-un just went to his mountainside gaming lair filled with hookers and Mountain Dew and snacks and shit and just chilled out for three weeks and beat Final Fantasy and then came back.

Speaker 4 So that would actually be a great way to spend three weeks though.

Speaker 1 Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1 So do we think he's actually back or is this an old picture of him?

Speaker 4 It could be one of those Dave situations where you replace your president with just some random actor on the street. Right.

Speaker 4 I would imagine that he probably has at least a half dozen clones of his, like actual clones, that have been kept in some weird farm just in case that he does die.

Speaker 1 It's weird because I was reading about it, and I guess he missed his grandfather's birthday, and that's like a big holiday in North Korea.

Speaker 1 So that was why he initially, everyone was like, where the fuck is he? Now I think I was looking at the pictures. I don't buy it.
I don't buy that's him.

Speaker 1 I think it's just, he looks kind of chunkier, too. So either he's been playing Final Fantasy and eating Cheetos and Doritos every single day, which could be true, or it's just a fake Kim Jong-un.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it could be a fake.

Speaker 4 That is a big-time gamer move, though, is just skipping your grandfather's birthday because you don't care about it.

Speaker 4 It's too engrossing the storyline.

Speaker 1 It's, yeah. I mean, you're supposed to, I guess it's obviously his deceased grandfather because I don't think you can

Speaker 1 in North Korea, if you're in that lineage, if you're still alive, you're the boss. So, oh, that's really true.
Yeah, so but he, yeah, it's a big national holiday. I don't know.

Speaker 1 Either way, Kim Jong-un, I'm not buying it. I think he's dead.
I'm saying on firmly on the side of he's dead.

Speaker 4 Okay, I want to, I'm firmly on the side of he's alive just in case he is alive. I don't want him thinking that I was hating on him.

Speaker 1 I don't want him to be alive. I don't want him hating on him.

Speaker 4 I don't want to be strapped to a wall and blown up with an artillery shell.

Speaker 1 Why is it hating on him to say he's dead?

Speaker 4 I am consistently in favor of sucking up up to any sort of dictator, just in case they turn on me one day.

Speaker 1 All right. I'm saying similar to my who's back, fuck Kim Jong-un.
Boom. Okay.
Maybe he's just been watching Outer Banks.

Speaker 4 What else came out around April 10th?

Speaker 1 Ozark, season three.

Speaker 4 He's been binging on that, yeah.

Speaker 1 He's a big Marty fan. He thinks he's looking for a Marty to open up a casino in Missouri for sure.

Speaker 1 All right, let's do our Mount Flushmore before we get Billy on to do Shark Tank Berserker Protein. What is he doing?

Speaker 5 He's pitching you guys his product.

Speaker 1 Okay. And he's trying to develop.
God knows what that's going to look like.

Speaker 1 All right, Mount Flushmore. So we're doing the Mount Flushmore of

Speaker 1 sports.

Speaker 1 Is that right?

Speaker 1 That we would

Speaker 4 sports activities that you would not want to try. So it's the Mount Flushmore of

Speaker 4 sporting activities you wouldn't want to try. Mount Flushmore of sporting activities.

Speaker 1 Okay. Pretty much Mount Flushmore of sports.
Kind of one in the same. But yeah.

Speaker 4 So, for example, stepping into the ring with Mike Tyson.

Speaker 1 Yes, yes. To actually play.

Speaker 1 Okay, so Hank, you have the first pick.

Speaker 1 Why don't you start?

Speaker 1 Water polo.

Speaker 1 Damn, that's a great pick. Had it.
Had it. Had it.
Like, why don't, why? Let's play keep away while we try to drown each other. No thanks.

Speaker 4 Treading water the whole time. You got to be dealing with the worst cramps in the world.

Speaker 1 The worst. I mean, that's, that was honestly my number one as well, Hank, because it is just, I can't imagine just having people just grab you, try to hold you underwater, try to steal the ball.

Speaker 1 Like, that sucks so much. It's basically taking what should be a fun, like, let's just throw the ball around in the pool and then making it insanely difficult.
Well, the whole game was

Speaker 5 basically a handball.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 The game was just started by people who

Speaker 1 played a ball.

Speaker 5 That's the maximum.

Speaker 4 And then just went too hardo with it. Yeah.
And they're like, yeah, let's all get together and do this on Sunday.

Speaker 1 Also, never trust a game that Stanford or Cowell are good at. Like, that's just a rule.
That's just a rule in life. If they're good at something, that means that it's not a real game.

Speaker 4 And it doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever how you can get dehydrated when you're playing in water.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, yeah, I would just drink it. I would just drink the chlorine.

Speaker 4 Yeah, exactly. Just drink it.

Speaker 1 Get a belly full of that shit.

Speaker 1 All right, PFT, your first pick.

Speaker 4 My first pick is going to be

Speaker 4 being a matador.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 Bullfighting.

Speaker 1 Although, that's kind of rigged on the matador's side. Those guys have so much.
They fucked that bull up so much before they got it.

Speaker 4 They get swag.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 4 they get the weapon, so you're allowed to stab the bull.

Speaker 4 And yeah, some of the bulls are a little bit doped up or whatever, but still, I know that I would just get absolutely gored. And then I've seen those once a year,

Speaker 4 you get a series of pictures that come out of a matador that really didn't take his job very seriously that day, and the horn always ends up his butthole.

Speaker 4 And that, to me, seems like it would be a bad day at the office.

Speaker 1 Okay, I will go with

Speaker 1 triathlon. Fuck the triathlon, or whatever it is.
Is that the same as Iron Man?

Speaker 4 Yeah, Iron Man is a type of triathlon. Right, so by you taking triathlon, you took Murder Hornet.

Speaker 1 No, I'm fine.

Speaker 1 We can keep Iron Man on there. I just didn't know the difference.
So having to do anything in the triathlon on its own would suck. Having to do it all consecutively, like, isn't it the swim a mile?

Speaker 4 Something like that, yeah.

Speaker 1 That is a long ways to swim. That's so long, and then you have to get out of there and just bike forever and then run a marathon.
Fuck the triathlon. That is such a try-hard move to do a triathlon.

Speaker 1 Um, and then my number two is MMA. I mean, the yep, getting knocked out, but even more than that, like getting tapped out, just only bad outcomes

Speaker 1 if we ever had to be in the MMA ring. Like, that would just be so emasculating.

Speaker 4 It would be kind of funny, though, to step into the ring and just have a competition to see who could lose the fastest in the least amount of pain possible.

Speaker 4 Like, because there would be a strategy to doing that. Yeah, just like I'm just immediately start hitting the ground like a Donkey Kong.
Like, yep, I'm already out before the game starts. Tapped.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 My second is going to be

Speaker 1 go with the Luge.

Speaker 4 Losing would be tough tough because

Speaker 4 just you'd crash going 75 miles an hour on the very first turn.

Speaker 1 Also, no teammates.

Speaker 5 But you don't have to do anything.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but no teammates too.

Speaker 1 Sucks.

Speaker 4 With your body weight, you think that you could get on a luge and survive a single turn?

Speaker 1 No. Yeah.
The question is, PFT, do you think... Dude, have you ever been sledding? I have.

Speaker 4 That's a good point. Same thing.

Speaker 1 The skeleton is maybe worse, though.

Speaker 1 True, because you're going head first. Yeah.
But that sucks.

Speaker 4 I almost feel like it'd be easier to steer the skeleton because it is, we've all done that thing on the sled where you go head first and you can steer it.

Speaker 4 It's easier to steer it that way on a sled than it is if you're laying on your back and you've got to broke and all that shit.

Speaker 1 If you fuck up, though. Feel the rhythm, feel the rhyme.
That's bob sled, which would be fun because you got a teammate.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you got bros to hang out with and children.

Speaker 5 Isn't it loose just one-man bob sled?

Speaker 1 Yeah, but that's the point. It's like it sucks to play it by yourself.

Speaker 4 and you're also not in a car there's not even an ox cord you can plug in you're just like laying on your back and just going over a cliff yeah um all right hank you have two

Speaker 5 tour de france

Speaker 5 so cycling yep cycling the tour de the tour de france yeah but that one that one i think cycling like i think the thing with cycling and marathoners is like there's a lot of people and when you like i don't think it's like a hard oh move to run a marathon or like do a bike race like raise money for charity.

Speaker 5 Like, that's all good stuff. But if you're doing it as your professional

Speaker 1 sport, yeah, right.

Speaker 5 That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.
I think, like, I think, like,

Speaker 5 people that run marathons get offended, or people that, like,

Speaker 5 like, Peloton or, like, whatever, cycle for exercise is one thing.

Speaker 5 But, like, if your profession is just doing the Tour de France, or like, that's the only, that's, that's the only biking one that I can even think of.

Speaker 5 Like, if you're a professional biker, what else even is there?

Speaker 4 So, apparently, in Europe, biking is one of the major sports over there. They just shut down down city roads like three times a week and just have bicycle races go by.

Speaker 1 That's crazy. Can you imagine that type of society?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 4 I'm glad we told King George to go fuck himself because

Speaker 4 I would not want to have... If my street gets shut down for a parade like once a year, I get upset.

Speaker 4 Imagine not being able to go to work because you've got 50 Italians wearing tight shorts driving behind their bikes.

Speaker 1 Would suck.

Speaker 1 You're third, Hank.

Speaker 5 I mean, we talked about it earlier, and for all the reasons that we talked about earlier, the strongman Olympics, because if you get to the peak of your profession, you're bleeding out of your brain, and your heart breaks the monitors.

Speaker 5 Yes. So I got no interest in that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, big-time weightlifting. So much pain.
Just constantly being pain. Right.

Speaker 5 Like, best case scenario, you break a record and then you basically die.

Speaker 4 Did you look at the Instagram comments on the ESPN video clip of the deadlift? It was great.

Speaker 5 They're critiquing him because he's not good form.

Speaker 4 Even this dude at the top of his game was like, oh, no, that's an elephant bar, and he's wearing wrist straps, and this is a strong man, not an actual competition.

Speaker 4 But they had a world record holder or former world record holder there, like watching his form, observing the entire thing. So it's a legit world record.

Speaker 4 But because it didn't take place in the one competition they have per year, they're like, nah, this doesn't count.

Speaker 1 I love it. I love it.

Speaker 1 That's just the theme of every, I mean, it's a Twitch chat. Every Twitch chat has every expert that's ever ever played that sport in it.

Speaker 1 All right, PFD, your third pick. My next one,

Speaker 4 my third pick is going to be being a catcher for an inning or for a whole game. Just being a catcher in Major League Baseball would absolutely suck.

Speaker 1 Oh, I would like it.

Speaker 4 No, you would get just torn up by curveballs, splitters. You take at least three sinkers to the nuts over the course of an inning, I would imagine.

Speaker 1 But you'd spend so long. I'm not a baseball player.
Yeah, but you would be a baseball player.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you could say that you were a baseball player. I'm saying, as far as the event goes,

Speaker 4 it would be rough. It would be tough afterwards.
You'd be sore as shit. You'd get hit in the face a few times.

Speaker 1 It would be tough.

Speaker 5 Yeah, but at least the thing with baseball that I was like playing the position I would get with my ADHD, I'd get bored.

Speaker 5 Pitching and catching, you at least have control of what's going on in the game. Like you can

Speaker 5 by yourself without anyone else, like you can kind of control what's going to happen. All the other positions are just standing and waiting.
It's scary, though.

Speaker 4 To have like 99 miles an hour coming at you.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that's the rush.

Speaker 1 That's why you play the game. And I feel still, still feel like, especially baseball, because baseball is so hard to get to.

Speaker 1 If you say you had a cup of coffee in the majors, that's like a real thing. That's kind of a cool thing, like flex to have on people.

Speaker 1 Even people who had like two at-bats, like, yeah, but I made the majors. That's like, wow, that's pretty impressive.

Speaker 5 And like, you're calling the shots and the pitcher's throwing it exactly where you want. Like, you're, you're the puppeteer behind the entire the entire game.

Speaker 4 Also, you have Joe West breathing on you.

Speaker 1 His jowls bumping off your shoulder.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Okay. Although, your knees, the one thing is your knees, dude, just you're fucked.
Yeah. For life.

Speaker 1 All right. I have two left.
I will go with

Speaker 1 rock climbing. Fuck that.
I mean, the free solo guys. That's insane.
I would die instantly. And having the strength, yeah.
I mean, the abs, I'd have sick abs. I'd have that fucking V,

Speaker 1 V, the dick V going.

Speaker 4 You have some nice pictures on Instagram, too. Just from like day at the office or sitting on top of a rock holding your arms out.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and then

Speaker 1 gymnastics. Gymnastics, like what's you, you basically get shine what, once every four years.
And have you ever watched gymnastics?

Speaker 1 I'd break every bone in my body after the first thing. I don't think there's one thing I could do in gymnastics that wouldn't just be catastrophic injury instantly.

Speaker 4 Probably the trampoline.

Speaker 1 No, dude. If I'm fucked up on trampolines, as it's

Speaker 1 you have to do like crazy things, you would definitely tear your ACL or Achilles. Like, think about all the flip.
You have to do all kinds of shit on the trampoline. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 Trampoline. But what about that?

Speaker 4 What about the glass athletic slam ball?

Speaker 1 Balance bar, I would fall off of instantly. Palm a horse, I'd fuck my nuts up.
The floor exercises would be torn Achilles, knee, ankle, everything.

Speaker 5 Bring bars.

Speaker 1 Rings would be disaster.

Speaker 4 Rings you would just let go of and fall down, though. That wouldn't be too bad.

Speaker 1 Oh, rings, you're trying yourself up, but trying as hard as you can. Yeah, tear everything in your body.
Fuck gymnastics.

Speaker 1 That thing is gymnastics, gymnasts are impressive, but I don't understand it at all.

Speaker 4 My last one is going to be

Speaker 4 Rodeo Cowboy.

Speaker 1 Rodeo-er.

Speaker 5 It's like your first one.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Matador? Bullfighting.

Speaker 4 I'm just terrified of cows in general. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But like, what was...

Speaker 5 You heard the expression, grab the bull by the horn, PFT.

Speaker 4 That's not what you do in a rodeo. You don't grab the bull by the horn.
You grab it by the saddle or by the hump on its back, by the ridge, and you hold on for eight seconds.

Speaker 5 At the very best scenario, Blockwood intimidated you. Blockwoods are the bull goats.

Speaker 4 Best case scenario in a rodeo, you hold on for eight seconds and then you win, but then immediately after you win, you have to escape something that's trying to kill you.

Speaker 4 So do you really even win?

Speaker 5 Getting paid millions of dollars for eight seconds of work, not bad. It's pretty good.

Speaker 4 That's pretty good. Didn't you also compete with like a broken spleen and ruptured appendix and all that?

Speaker 5 Yeah, badass. Football guy.
Cowboy. Isn't that your whole, like, that's your whole, that's your whole thing?

Speaker 4 Yeah, but I mean, I want to be a football guy. I don't want to be a football guy stuck in a rodeo guy's body.

Speaker 5 Still badass. They are, though.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's the fullbacks are basically rodeo guys.

Speaker 4 Would you want to know? Would you want to compete in a a rodeo? I don't think so.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't want to, but if I was going to paid a lot of money,

Speaker 1 it's definitely one of the sports

Speaker 1 that we're talking about, all these sports. It's probably one of the only ones that I could actually

Speaker 1 do, right? Get on a bowl and actually do it. Like, I could never run a triathlon or play water pole.
I'd drown.

Speaker 4 You could handle the getting on the bowl part, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right. But that's, that's, I mean, I could compete in it.
Like, I wouldn't, I'd get tossed right away, but I could technically compete in it.

Speaker 4 You could compete in a triathlon, too. You would just

Speaker 4 stop.

Speaker 1 I would, dude, even walking a triathlon, I mean, I'd drown on a triathlon. I'd drown.
I would drown. 100% would drown.
A mile.

Speaker 4 People don't talk about how far a mile is in the water.

Speaker 1 It's insane. Insane length.

Speaker 4 Hank, your last pick?

Speaker 1 Soccer. Simple.

Speaker 1 Just because

Speaker 5 any sport that you can't use your hands. It's just like you have 50% of your body and the stuff that are much more important and you can't even use it.
You're basically just running around.

Speaker 5 At most, you're scoring like one goal a game. I just don't, there's no, I see no value in it.

Speaker 4 I like how Hank's entire explanation behind soccer is just that it would be boring.

Speaker 1 It's not boring.

Speaker 5 It is, dude. Soccer is boring as fuck.

Speaker 1 It's not wrong.

Speaker 4 It's also, you get paid a shitload of money, but is it worth it? I mean, at what price does your border? Not Americans.

Speaker 1 Yeah, true.

Speaker 1 Hank, just by being born in America, has a ceiling, a glass ceiling to his worth as a soccer player. Literally, literally.

Speaker 5 Like, there's like, what, five Americans maybe that are like getting paid really well to play soccer? Oh, man,

Speaker 1 you're going to get people very upset with that one. I like it.

Speaker 5 All our European listeners.

Speaker 1 I enjoy, I would love to have soccer be back right now. If we had soccer, come on, you'd watch soccer right now, Hank, wouldn't you?

Speaker 5 Well, yeah, but I would watch pretty much any of the sports we just said where I wouldn't have watched them before. Although, probably not Tor de Ferranso running, and I guess Strongman was on.

Speaker 5 I didn't even know about it, and I still wouldn't watch it again.

Speaker 1 Belarus and Nicaragua both have soccer still going on. I know, because I've lost money.

Speaker 4 Yeah, the

Speaker 4 ESPN Ocho over the weekend, where they had the cherry-spitting competition. I watched that.
I watched this robot fight thing. I watched juggling and dodgeball mixed together in some weird sport.

Speaker 4 I'd watch basically anything except for cycling. Cycling is

Speaker 4 a more boring version of NASCAR.

Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. Yeah, unless you could bet on it.

Speaker 5 You're a cyclist.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you are a cyclist.

Speaker 4 I am a cyclist. It's also, I've read recently that cycling is the most dangerous sport in the world.

Speaker 1 I would say that's a good question. It's probably just cycling.
Cycling probably

Speaker 4 because you get crashed up so much because you're a nerd is probably why.

Speaker 1 No, it's people just opening their fucking doors.

Speaker 1 Their car doors. Yeah, true.
That's pretty much it.

Speaker 5 There are some hilarious bike crashes out there on the internet yeah bike crash bicyclist

Speaker 1 bicyclist fights are pretty hilarious too yes they are but bike crashes like the big one in bike crashes oh man that's pretty fun um all right let's get to billy our deep dive with billy football what's up guys it's big cat here making my irish entrance with proper number 12 irish whiskey how do you make an irish entrance you ask it starts with a shot of proper number 12 irish whiskey because real friends don't let friends Irish exit a party without a story to tell.

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Speaker 4 And now Billy football.

Speaker 1 Okay, we now do our deep dive with Billy Football. It is Monday.
Billy is joining us from his

Speaker 1 berserker blood cult basement. Fraud.
He's looking good. He's the bunker.
Sorry, you're right.

Speaker 1 He's looking good. Now, Billy, before you start...
this pitch can we ask a quick question about you actually did go to the emergency room the other day

Speaker 7 Yeah, so my stomach started hurting. Like it's had these stabbing pains and

Speaker 7 turns out like I thought I was like having appendicitis, but then I went there.

Speaker 7 They gave me like an ultrasound and they're like, you have swollen lymph nodes in near your stomach, which can be caused by a viral infection. And I was like, what's that? Like, do I have coronavirus?

Speaker 7 They're like, no.

Speaker 7 um have you been in contact like i swear to god they're like you may have contracted it's called like uh is this some they gave me some virus name, and I was like, where would I get that?

Speaker 7 And they're like, have you been in contact with cats? And it turns out I have cat scratch fever.

Speaker 1 Ooh, that's a real thing. Nugent, like the new cat.

Speaker 4 So what is cat scratch fever? What does it do to you? Makes you sick at guitar?

Speaker 4 It makes you sick. I don't know.

Speaker 7 I got a swollen lymph node. It feels like appendicitis.
It really hurts, but we're playing through it.

Speaker 1 I did love Billy. Billy then said he's happy.
He was pumped that it wasn't appendicitis because if they had to take his appendix out, that means he wouldn't have survived in the wild. So

Speaker 1 at least you're still alive.

Speaker 7 I'm still, yeah. I mean, like, I'm still, like, I could still survive in the wild by myself without like medical.

Speaker 4 For those of you that can't see Billy right now, he's rocking a sweet mustache. He's got a suit and tie on.
You actually, you look a little bit like young cat.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 4 I don't think I've ever seen any pictures of Big Cat when he was 22 years old, however old you are, Billy, 21.

Speaker 4 But I'd imagine that it looked, you look like if Big Cat fucked Kirk Cousins.

Speaker 1 fair

Speaker 7 fair i mean i just wanted to grow a mustache in quarantine because it's the only time i can really do and get away with it because i'm not seeing any except you guys yeah

Speaker 1 sorry grandma for cussing sorry about that billy i forgot you're looking good you're looking good all right so should we start the pitch okay

Speaker 7 so i'm willing to provide any amount of equity share of a supplement company, the berserker blood cult supplement company, for about $10,000 to $30,000, depending on the quote.

Speaker 4 $10,000 to $30,000. That's a pretty big gap there.

Speaker 1 So I'll give you, I'll take

Speaker 1 100%. Yeah, give us 100% of $10,000.

Speaker 7 I don't care because I just, like, basically, these products are sick.

Speaker 1 You just want to get cash rich. Wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 4 Big cat, sidebar. So before Billy even explains what the hell the supplement product company is, if we say

Speaker 4 we'll give you $10,000 and we tell them at a valuation of $10 million in your company, doesn't that that make the company worth $10 million immediately?

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, we have to. So $10,000, though, on a $10 million valuation would only get us like 0.001% of his company.

Speaker 4 Yeah, but still, like, that's how you get started. You get like all these articles and shit written about you by saying, oh, this startup is now worth $10 million.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Click to find out more.

Speaker 7 Does that mean I could get onto like the 20 under 20 type thing?

Speaker 1 Billy, I'd like to enter. Not under 20.

Speaker 4 I mean, 30,

Speaker 4 I'd like to enter into an offer sheet negotiation with you. So we're speaking on preliminary terms right now for Series A funding on your supplement company.
Now, what is your supplement company sell?

Speaker 7 I got two products. Like two products, but one product has three levels.

Speaker 1 First product,

Speaker 1 what? So there's

Speaker 1 four products. Yeah, but one are all different types of pre-workouts for the movie.
Okay. Okay.

Speaker 7 So first product, crisis fuel.

Speaker 7 It's for maintaining mass when you're trying to be energized let's say a couple of situations first off pandemic spoken we know what happens during pandemic you need to drink crisis fuel second it's finals week you're needing to maintain mass and stay energized so look everyone around you who's students not student athletes they're all guzzling at a roll and becoming little skeleton like sweating having heart attacks definitely not student athletes though just the students that's the students you're a student athlete you need to maintain mass but be energized to study because there's a sophomore who doesn't care about his academics who's going to take your spot and your girlfriend's parents are asking you what are you going to do with life after football so you need to study but also maintain your spot on the football team a lot of things going around so maintain mass energy this is what we're gonna do I developed a proprietary blend which isn't gonna be like a bullshit proprietary blend all these supplements i don't even want to flavor them because i want you to be able to taste the ingredients when you put in your mouth like this is strong shit i'm going to get to another type of uh supplement that i gave to pft the other day it's like a whole thing i've actually been testing them on on myself recently.

Speaker 1 Like

Speaker 7 and caffeine, if you mix them, it's like a super energized type thing. So I'm going to do like casein protein or some sort of animal-based protein, mix it with B12 vitamins, taurine,

Speaker 7 caffeine. If I could, I'd get the stuff from Jack3D that got banned, but we can't do that anymore.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 R.I.P.

Speaker 7 So that would be sick because like, let's say, what else?

Speaker 7 Let's say you can't eat. You like, you know, you're gaming.
You need energy, but you need to maintain mass. So you've been gaming all day, you don't have time for food.

Speaker 7 Like you're on a road trip, you don't want want to stop. You're a trucker, overnight delivery, can't stop because your delivery is due the next day at 6 a.m.
It's 3 a.m. You can't stop for food.

Speaker 7 That sort of stuff.

Speaker 1 But I'm thinking with the crisis fuel, we sell it in 10 gallon buckets.

Speaker 7 So for example, let's say there's a wildfire. It's approaching your house.
It's California. You need to grab as much food as you can.

Speaker 7 Screw the food, grab your 10-gallon bucket of crisis fuel, which is all powder and a bunch of water, throw it in your car, drive away, you have enough meals for 40 days.

Speaker 4 Okay,

Speaker 4 I like where your head's at, Billy. The no flavor thing, are you married to that?

Speaker 7 No, we can flavor the crisis fuel. That's more for the pre-workout because I want the pre-workout to hit and you'd be like, this isn't just flavored Kool-Aid with caffeine in it.
This is real stuff.

Speaker 1 Billy,

Speaker 1 would you be open to doing a diet crisis fuel? Because while I appreciate where your head is at with gaining mass, I think a lot of people are going for the skinny bod these days.

Speaker 7 Well, the whole point of crisis fuel is that it's like 2,000 calories a punch. So it's protein, carbs.
It's going to add a shit ton of cornstarch to it.

Speaker 7 So you just get a ton of carbs every time you drink it, but a lot of energy.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 So it's a meal replacement.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Replacement, but energy.

Speaker 4 What Big Cat's getting to here, it's actually a valid point. If you make it slightly less than 2,000 calories, you could just say it's your entire day's replacement.
Right.

Speaker 4 So all you have to do is you just drink one crisis fuel and it's a diet supplement. So it's not even like diet crisis fuel.
It's for dieting. It's the only meal that you eat in a day.

Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 7 Ooh, you could do that, but then you just eat less crisis fuel.

Speaker 1 Okay. So

Speaker 4 there can be two branches of crisis fuel.

Speaker 1 One for now, when we say lose, we're talking

Speaker 1 about drunken great weight.

Speaker 7 Yeah, yeah. We're just going to throw this, you throw in some water, mix it up, you pound it down, you chug it, you're done for the day.
Boom.

Speaker 7 And it sits in your stomach, but not in like, it's a light sit in your stomach, so you're full for the rest of the day, but you don't need to eat and you don't feel slow.

Speaker 4 How does that happen? How does it sit in your stomach, but also not sit in your stomach?

Speaker 7 Slow burning proteins and carbohydrates.

Speaker 4 Does it give you man tits?

Speaker 7 No, it's going to be extremely

Speaker 7 androgenic. It's not going to be estrogenic.
No soy. No soy.
Does it take away your man tits?

Speaker 7 Well, there's going to be a separate line of things called tea boosters that we're going to market not for human consumption, so we can put the good stuff in it. Oh, that's smart.

Speaker 7 So people can buy it they're just explicitly told not to consume it but wink wink wink they can do whatever they want once they have it use their use it on their test subjects right okay got it so it's like selling bleach right

Speaker 1 yeah if we say don't consume

Speaker 4 it's not it's on your it's on you if you consume it but if you consume it you'll probably get super jacked and awesome Yeah, you can't say on it, like, use it on your test subjects because that implies that you have like a slave that you keep to experiment on.

Speaker 4 We gotta give it like a an yeah, we have to give it like an alternate purpose, like sell it as um it's fertilizer,

Speaker 4 it could be fertilizer or it could be like kitchen sinks,

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 7 So, now here's to the second line: this is berserker mode pre-workouts. Now, PFT, remember that stuff you took the other day and told you to take it

Speaker 7 pre-zerker, exactly. Boom, there's 10% steak right there, Hank.

Speaker 1 Thanks

Speaker 7 So PFT, remember that stuff you took the other day? And I said, take it until your skin crawls?

Speaker 4 The beta-alanine, yeah.

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 7 So I've got a new mixture of blends, low in caffeine, because I don't really like caffeine in my pre-workouts because it makes me feel dehydrated. This one is just going to make your skin crawl.

Speaker 7 There's going to be three levels, like super skin crawl, because that's just the animal spirits coming up from your body to make you feel berserker.

Speaker 7 And then the first level is for people who aren't like... that into berserker, but like they don't want that much skin crawling.
They just still want the energy and the super pump.

Speaker 7 So what it is, is the blood flushes to the surface of your skin as a sort of

Speaker 7 anti-histamine, histamine response. So, it like all the blood goes to the surface of your skin because it's going out of your body to get into your muscles.

Speaker 7 So, then basically, you have to lift in order to get the itch away.

Speaker 4 Why don't we just get people addicted to heroin and then have them work out? They're like going through withdrawals, their skin's crawling, boom.

Speaker 7 Well, it's hard to work out if you're on heroin.

Speaker 1 It's true.

Speaker 4 Well, the cardio is probably pretty good.

Speaker 4 All the junkies are skinny.

Speaker 7 Well, how this all ties in together is that we need to make our veins giant for the nurses when we donate blood in the berserker blood cult. So this gives you a super pump.

Speaker 7 Your vascularity gets like huge. Your nitrous oxide levels go up and you get sick boners.

Speaker 1 Sick boners. Okay,

Speaker 7 you should have led with sick boners, by the way.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Can we sell them behind the counter at gas stations?

Speaker 7 Yes.

Speaker 4 Okay, that's a good start.

Speaker 4 Now, i admit the heroin thing was probably getting a little ahead of my skis but it made me think if you want to market some like real hardcore pre-workout and tell people like this is not for pussies this is a real deal why don't we make some sort of pre-workout stuff that you can just inject like that comes with a needle like really kick it up a little bit

Speaker 7 i don't know about that one because then you might as well just do steroids Yeah, I guess I did invent steroids there.

Speaker 7 I'm just like, I'm like, don't want big supplements because they basically sell Kool-Aid with caffeine in it. I want to make something with no taste because then it's cheaper.

Speaker 7 You actually know what you're getting. This is going to be no BS.
I don't even want any money from this. I just want dudes to get the real stuff so they don't do something stupid.

Speaker 7 Yeah. So we're non-for-profit.
That will help with taxes.

Speaker 7 We're at 501c. Yeah, there we go.
All right. What's the other thing? And this is how we're going to market it.
So we're going to market it. in huge packages and you sell them to people.

Speaker 7 So I'm the AlphaZerker with a capital A and then we'll sell it and once you get the package you're going to be small a alpha zerker and then you have to give it to all your friends and then if they want to become an alpha zerker and get an alpha zerker hoodie which is going to be a sick hoodie with a bear on it so it looks like a bear skin

Speaker 7 and then they're the alpha zerker and then you have your own berserker clan and then if they want to become an alpha zerker they have to buy their own package and get another berserker gang to then sell their other parts of the supplements to and then we just build a berserker blood blood cult, and they all have to like make sure they're donating blood and then selling all the supplements in these 10-gallon tubs.

Speaker 7 But the pre-workouts can still mean the small ones.

Speaker 4 Okay, so basically, a pyramid scheme is what we're talking about here. No, the cult, no, that's fine.
Oh, it's a cult. Okay, yeah, yeah, it's the same.

Speaker 7 Yeah, we're not pawning anybody, it's a cult to donate blood for the blood shortage.

Speaker 7 I like it. I'm in.
So, what do you need?

Speaker 7 I think I need like at most thirty thousand dollars. What about uh, do you think people will just send us some that you can do some mixes with?

Speaker 4 I'd like to sample before I invest.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 7 If you sell, if you produce

Speaker 7 supplements and are willing to make an

Speaker 7 unflavored supplement, hit me up.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 7 And then we'll just let Billy test it out. And I am down to start taking random supplements from you all summer long.

Speaker 1 I am. Absolutely.

Speaker 7 I've actually been getting into biohacking. So let's just make this the summer of biohacking.
Oh, I also want to create a supplement for chilling out so people stop taking Xanax and

Speaker 1 beer.

Speaker 1 Marijuana. And then there should be another supplement off.

Speaker 1 Marijuana would be that supplement.

Speaker 7 No, but marijuana makes you lazy. It lost its Vietnam.

Speaker 4 Billy, what do you think about doing something with protein? It seems like you're dancing around the idea of protein right now.

Speaker 1 Protein, you see,

Speaker 7 you got to consume your protein in an anabolic state so it turns into good mass, not bad mass. We need perfect anabolic state.
Being drunk is not the best time for the anabolic state.

Speaker 1 What else?

Speaker 4 Well, don't let don't let great be the enemy of good here, Billy. True.

Speaker 1 True. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Billy, this, I think we have preliminary talks. We're in.
We're in on preliminary talks. I'd like to see, like PFT said, I'd like to see

Speaker 7 maybe a test.

Speaker 7 We can get a sample and then then go from there. Well, I'll test out all the samples on myself.
They'll be sick. I'm gonna get jacked.

Speaker 7 The Berserker Blood Cult exercise and diet program is gonna start this week. It's gonna be sick.
We're gonna make videos, okay? Body weight stuff.

Speaker 1 It's gonna be sick.

Speaker 7 And then I also got an app idea.

Speaker 7 I can't tell you what it is because I don't get sucker cucked, but basically, there's a lot of things that people want, and there's a lot of people who can give them those things.

Speaker 7 And we're gonna connect those people, and everyone's gonna have a really sick night every time they use the app.

Speaker 4 Backpage.com. Billy invented backpage.

Speaker 1 All right, we're in.

Speaker 1 Boom.

Speaker 7 All right, so can I? I'll tell you about the app offline. Perfect.

Speaker 7 All right,

Speaker 7 we'll see you next Monday, Billy. Thank you.

Speaker 1 All right, have a good one.

Speaker 4 Love you guys.

Speaker 1 I am snacking.

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