Bills GM Brandon Beane, Jay Glazer, Christian Dawkins + Mt Flushmore Of States

Hey, Pardon My Take listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.
On today's Pardon My Take, we have three guests. Huh? We have three guests.
We have Brandon Bean, the GM of the Buffalo Bills. Talk draft, talk Josh Allen, talk strategy, what a war room looks like really interesting interview with him we have our friend Jay Glazer on to explain what the hell happened yesterday also I demanded an apology and he gave one to America so that will make you feel a little better and then we have Christian Dawkins from the scheme which hopefully you watch because it's a fascinating documentary out on hbo so we talked to him we also have fire fest and mount flushmore of states which got a little contentious not actually contentious between us but people are going to be pissed uh ever had one of those days when it's just too cold to keep working nah neither has ariot ariot work jackets and boots are packed with all the cold stopping waterproof protection you need to get the job done under any conditions so you can take any job out there and

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Okay, let's go. Bye!

Bye! No place to hang out or wash in And then I can't leave all on the sun Oh no We're gonna rock down to Electric Avenue And then we'll take it higher Oh we're gonna rock down to Electric Avenue It's Pardon My Tate presented by Barstool Sports I used to think that sandwiches were just, you know, basic, until I realized how easy it is to level them way up. It's all about starting with the best ingredients.
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Head to the deli counter, grab your favorites, and see just how easy it is to make every bite bite amazing discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local boars head deli counter today is friday april 17th we've made it guys fifth week of the quarantine dusted we are we've reached the apex we're on the downhill right now we're cheering the apex we can see sports in the future uh even if we're gonna have spring football maybe for college football i would not hate that idea

i college football is the one sport where i think fans matter the most yes we need we need football

in the fall so hopefully nfl i could watch nfl games without fans i could bring myself to do

that but if we got spring football on the other side then boom we got spring college football

Except for... So hopefully NFL.
I could watch NFL games without fans. I could bring myself to do that.
But if we got spring football on the other side, then boom, we got spring college football. I don't know if I'd say better.
You would rank XFL over college football? Well, the players in the XFL are the best college football players. I would still probably rank college football.
So, yeah, I mean, listen. We're making it through this.
We're making it through this. It's the fifth week of quarantine.
Every time we get to a Friday, pat yourself on the back.

I'm telling you right now, you listening to this right now, good job this week doing nothing.

We have breaking news.

Yeah.

Allie Quigley has just been eliminated in the horse competition.

So credit to her.

She just saved Chicago from massive amount of Zach Levine beater. Okay, so we'll do that.
So it's him in the finals against Mike Conley, if anybody cares. I'm so happy that I was adamant when they announced that Horse was coming out, and I said, this is going to suck, and everyone was like, no, it's sports, you need sports.
This sucked. I actually think if they had just done it on Periscope, it would have been fine.
The fact they put it on TV, it ruined it. You know what they should do is they should just get like a random selection of 60-year-old dudes that used to play in college that just show up at YMCA's across the country and just have those guys compete.
Like the guys with the sick, wet jump shots that don't miss from 15 feet. With 60-year-olds, you can't have them leaving their house.
But just put them in a gym, an isolated gym by themselves. Got it.
Like mixed in. I'm sure some of those guys could compete.
Yeah, absolutely. A little hook shot.
Just a hook shot horse game. Yeah.
Only hook shots only. Just like big baggy ass gray sweatshirts and short blue, like navy blue bicycle shorts.
Those types of old dudes. I'm just happy we made it through another week, guys.
We did it. We did it.
It feels good. We did it.
You did it. We did it.
We all did it. But we have...
Has anybody checked in on Charles Barkley? No, he just went silent. He doesn't have social media, so it makes sense.
Yeah, he just said that he might have it, but he was just tired a couple weeks ago. He's probably just hanging out, having a great time, not being bothered by anyone um all right so we have fire fest mount flush more coming up brandon bean bills gm and we also have uh christian dawkins but before we do that we have to get to the bottom of jay glazer's big poo poo that's what i'm calling it jay glazer's big poop what about his big oopsie his big oopsie He called in.
He up but we had to kind of get him to apologize but we like jay it was probably it was just that we're what do he doesn't understand so he said we have big i big national news not a transaction coming at 11 o'clock on wednesday night everyone of course is thinking oh my god he's gonna say the n season is going to be fine. Because all we're thinking about right now is give us good news.
It wasn't that. It was that Rams center.
What's his name? Brian. Brian.
Brian. Brian.
Brian had coronavirus. Had it.
He's already okay. He's on the other side.
So we all were like, wait, that were like wait that was the big news what the fuck it's also unfortunate that the day after this big news came out von miller said that he has it right recurring guests thoughts and prayers to him hope he makes full recovery but everyone got in and to bryan no bryan's already all right he's recovered but that's extra thoughts and prayers thanks hands pulled up what's going on what's what i see your ass crack yeah i I see your ass crack while you're sitting down. Hank's pants always fall down because he has no ass.
Stand up. Stand up, but don't adjust.
Let's get you some suspenders. Now turn around.
Let's see the back. Now pull up your shirt.
Pull up your shirt. Oh, that's not as bad as I've seen.
I've seen much worse from Hank. I don't know how you pulled that up.
That was sneaky what you just did. All right, yeah, so Jay.
Jay Jay had an oopsie and he got crucified. And what we're doing is speaking for the common fan because I know personally I was very upset when I found out that the news wasn't the news that the NFL was coming back.
I was upset that this was built up all day because I don't think what Jay fully calculated. Jay probably has a life.
The rest of us don't have a life anymore. Yeah, I set an alarm at 8 a.m.
yesterday being like, hey, I have to wake up if I'm asleep at 11. All day.
By the way, 11 p.m. is a preposterous time to break news.
It also is, I'll own a little bit of this. When he said I have big news coming tomorrow at 11 p.m., we should have probably figured out that it wasn't, like, some news that Adam Schefter or Ian Rappaport had.
Because, like, they would have just. They would have put it out.
They would have tweeted it out. Yeah.
So we should have known. But that's not how my brain works.
Yeah. Also, it's crazy.
If that news had been released a month earlier, it would have earth shatter he would have been the rudy gobert of the nfl and maybe after him the entire world would have shut down and we're happy bry guys okay but it also is like brian we thought like it was gonna be like you know he and he he jay already announced like three weeks ago so he's okay do you think like i didn't have a time to mourn do you think that bry guys fight you think that jared and blake got checked up because they're the ones that stick their hands like in his butt all the time to take the snaps jared's got a sick ass mustache he does jared does look like awesome so sick he looks so sick he looks like i hope not no ill okay he looks wait he looks ill ill as the kids say yes what piff piff word you're doing to me. No, that's a real word.
No, it's not. That's a fake word you're doing to me.
That's piff. He looks fetch.
When I say I'm piff, it's like code for like I'm the biggest loser ever. No.
Piff is good. Yo, I'm piff, bro.
Piff. Piff? Yeah.
Got that piff. Okay.
Why'd you do the okay? The white nationalist logo. What the fuck? No.
Okay. All right.
I can see your ass again, Hank. Yeah, I can see you too.
Pull it up. I think you guys are- Showing your ass.
Pull it up. You're piffed.
Whoa. So that's bad.
No, like piff. Like- A spliff? Marijuana.
Grass? Good marijuana. You're talking about grass? Oh, it's like dope.
Yes, piff. It was sick.
Cush. You're headies.
No, cush is a type. Yeah, but it's like mad kush.
Nope. Nope.
Nope. You're beasters.
Whatever. You're shake.
That piff.com. White rhino.
Kush. Also, not adjectives.
Purple haze. Maui wowi.
I'm Maui wowi right now. When I to colorado last time i smoked this stuff called ghost dog it was how can you not buy ghost dog yeah that's john snow's wolf yeah they're

like hey you want some ghost dog oh yeah you had me at ghost and then you sealed the deal at dog

all right let's get to we digress but let's do let's get get Jay Glazer on the phone. Okay, we now welcome on a good friend, recurring guest, Jay Glazer, NFL insider, also MVP organization, which we always shout out.
Jay, we had to have you on because I don't know if you realize this but you really pissed off america dude i totally shut my phone off a couple days and all i've watched is the tiger king i have no idea what's going on okay all right so walk us through it because from my perspective and listen i know you um yeah you know you you've been on with us i'm not you helped us out the way it's being is not my – is never my MO. And, look, what I – the thing that I wish I didn't do now is – well, so I went on Fox Sports Radio the other night.
Look, I work for Fox, so I have to, you know, on Sundays during Fox and on Sunday, I hold stuff for the show that I'm going to do. Always do it.
I always have. And I lose a lot of scoops that way, but I work for a network.
I don't work for Twitter, and I don't work for ESPN or NFL Network, where it's SportsCenter 24-7. So I do things for a show.
When Brian Allen, and I talked about this, he agreed to do this and wanted to get his message out for the show. So when I was on Fox Sports Radio the other night with Jason Smith, those guys who I guys who i love they were like joking around as i was talking about i was trying to promote the show who was on and they were joking around and i was like guys no this is i'm serious i'm not kidding i've got some national news that i'm breaking and they kept joking around like no i'm serious i got national news this is national which is national by national news i meant it wasn't like sports news it was it's not nfl news it's like real news you know and i was like no i have real breaking

news and i'm like i'm serious i'm not kidding so when they put it in a tweet form and all you see

is i've got big national news i'm not kidding i wish then i went on twitter with a video and said

no no guys what i meant was i'm really not kidding like i'm trying to be serious here and and um it's not something you should joke about is what i meant so i woke up the next day and i get calls from like all these people like oh my god what's the big breaking news i'm like the hell are you all talking about and like i really had no idea what anybody was talking about and that was um that was yesterday and then it'd be like oh these Fox Sports Radio say you have big breaking news and I'm like and I was texting back whoever sent me up like no it's it's about the virus it's not like you guys think so I only tweeted out no folks it's not a trend and I try to tell people it's not a transactional thing it's not like so I'm not I'm not breaking something that someone's getting traded or somebody's retiring or somebody's signing.

That's not what it is.

And I looked at it like it was serious national news

because it's the first active player we know who had it.

And then obviously I got crushed.

It was like, well, you're using this to pump up your ratings

and why didn't you put it out beforehand?

Because that's not how it works.

You work for a TV, network for a show. That's where you do your news.
And, you know, even Brian and I were talking, and Brian's like, oh, my God, this is like, and I'm like, oh, my God, it's getting out of control. But I couldn't tweet out the news.
That's not what he and I agreed upon. He, you know, wanted to put this story out also with me so um we could show people what he went through and that he has come through the other side but to show people symptoms like he and I wrote it today for the athletic fully the symptoms he told me like I didn't really I didn't know how bad it gets when you hear people say they lose their smell or their taste he lost his smell to the point where he was using smelling salts and got nothing.
Zero. And God knows I know about smelling salts.
Yeah. And his taste, he said, I have no, I only have, I feel texture.
I don't feel any taste. So I thought it was important to get out there.
And, you know, I'm sorry that everybody wants me to break. Like if cam newton's going somewhere or odell's getting traded and that got screwed up but that's never how it was i was trying to show people no no it's not that and i'm not the one like i didn't come on i you know i was trying to and i should have clarified but what i meant was serious news like i'm serious i meant it was serious it's a dude's life yeah you meant.
You got caught in the promo machine by a tweet that quoted you from an interview. And you probably, would you have tweeted out like in anticipation like, hey, tomorrow night I have very serious news breaking on Fox Sports or whatever the name of the show was? No, because I didn't.
Like I didn't yesterday. I wasn't like, hey, coming out.
I don't think, if I did, it was like, I think I had the tweet out that Sean McVay and Jonathan Taylor, and we have one of our MVP combat vets, John Fulmer, coming on to give us an incredible story about this key around his neck that he got and kicking in a door on a mission in Mosul is incredible. But anyway, I don't think I put out of anything like, hey, I have this this big breaking news it was just me talking to these guys and they were promoing the show and then i was like i actually got something tomorrow night that's national news it's going to end up being big national news which anytime somebody has the virus it's a professional athlete or in sports it's going to be big national news and that's really where i was going with it.
And even today, people are like, you're not taking responsibility. I'm like, this is a responsibility.
Hey, this is a responsibility I'm taking. You don't like it? I'm sorry.
Okay, so from my perspective, because I want to explain the fan's perspective, the dumb person's perspective, because that's what I consider myself. I see national news.
I'm a captive audience.

I got nowhere to fucking go. I'm stuck in my house.
I'm looking for someone to tell me something. And 11th in a month is another virus story.
Right. Someone to tell me something about football being back or Roger Goodell bought an island or this is all going to be okay.
And I'm sitting there like 11 p.m. Eastern time.
Jay Glazer is going to tell us that either right obviously like Odell Beckham is traded which you said it wasn't going to be a transactional but you're going to tell us news that will make us feel good about football coming back so can you at least apologize to those people no but you guys said I never said that all yeah but that's that's how we think now listen i wish that i could have come back i wish this wasn't the story that i had i couldn't tell you that enough i wish this wasn't the story that you think you want any of my friends having the virus hell no right i don't want anybody i know having the virus absolutely not um what i'm glad as i've been able to get out what his symptoms are and even look the more people that are angry at me the more people are going to click on that and see what his symptoms are and what they are because brian also didn't know somehow he didn't know he's like i didn't know smell loss of smell and taste were symptoms and my friends were telling me and that's why i got tested i'm like how do you not know he's like i'm just rehabbing i got my head you know i'm i've got my head down i'm rehabbing. I'm not watching all this stuff on the news.
I'm trying not to. So I hope that people in their anger will click on and see.
But I hear you. I wish it was.
Just say sorry. Say sorry to those dumb idiots.
Yeah. But just say sorry to America.
We're sad. We thought you were going to tell us good news.
I get you, but it's incredible how angry. Like, remember last year when I said Odell was getting traded and everybody, the anger toward me, and I tweeted out that thing about how pissed off people are getting.
I don't know what it is when I do something, because my track record's good. I don't get anything wrong.
But now my track record is just crappy. Well, how about this? How about we give you a little opportunity for redemption do you have any sort of like red meat you can throw out about maybe like good news some nugget that you've heard about the nfl coming back yeah odell's not getting traded the vikings okay what about the nfl coming back but here's the thing i don't want to tell anybody that without being 100 right because that's the worst thing you could ever do to anybody.
No, I disagree. I think if you just gave us some hope right now, even if it's like 50-50, that's going to buy you a lot of goodwill.
I think they're going to do whatever they can. I think they're going to do whatever they can, even if we already saw that they're saying without fans in the stands or whatever.
I think that without a doubt, they're going to look. And this is why everybody got so angry.
It's because what we are in sports is escapism. And instead of giving people an escape last night, I gave them more coronavirus stories.
Yeah, but it also. It is my job.
But. It sucks.
But, Jay. Our job is to be escapism in sports.
It also was probably because. I'm hoping it comes back, and I think they are.
It also probably was because it was an offensive lineman and it was. He had the coronavirus three weeks ago.
You have to at least admit that. Yeah, that's crappy too because that's not fair to him.
No. That's crap to him.
Oh, because if it was a bigger name, then people would have been like, oh, wow, that's crappy to him. Let's not judge human value on whether he was a star player or not.
That's crappy to him. I agree.
And I've seen that a lot, too. It's more that we hyped the news up so much, and that might not have been right on our account.
Yes, you guys did. Yeah.
I'm kidding. Because we need news.
We need something. Uh-huh.
We need it. We're dying out.
You're not actually dying. That was the wrong choice of words.
We're desperate for news. How about this, Jay? Have you you heard anything at all i know your boys with rob gronkowski i know for a fact that you talked to rob gronkowski is he coming back i don't think he i look when we were training at that uh at the gym on break a little about you know he had to come back by a certain time and he's way fairer than he ever has been right so we were even talking about what it would take for him to come back and he was never like, all right, I need a certain time.
And he's way fairer than he ever has been, right? So we were even talking about what it would take for him to come back, and he was never like, all right, I need a new program because I've got to bulk back up. He's way thinner.
Body's not even close to how it was when he played. So he'd have to change everything around pretty fast.
But also, I don't see him going to Bucs. They've got two tight ends there.
They're trying to get rid of O.J. Howard, though.
And Cameron Braid. But the Patriots still own his rights.
So why would they just be like, oh, yeah, sure. They would trade him because they could get something for him.
I don't see that happening. If they're trying to prove that they give women out Brady, then they're going to want Gronk there.
They're not going to just be like, oh yeah, let's just send him to the guy who left us. Let's send him to go help him.
They're not going to do that. I think Belichick would rather have some asset than have nothing at all because Gronk's not going to come back and play for New England.
The asset is Rob Gronkowski. If he says I'm coming back, then they're going to be like, oh, why would the Patriots not say, okay, we'll take the Hall of Famer here? You know what I mean? He doesn't control it.
They have his rights. Well, he could always say he's not going to play for New England, right? Then he doesn't play anywhere.
They have his rights. Just say sorry to me, Jay.
I'm sorry. There we go.
And I'll accept it on behalf of America. And, Jay, I always have your back.
There it is. I had your back last night because I knew that there was a little bit more to the story and that you weren't going out of your way to just hype up something about the coronavirus

to get people to watch.

You got trapped in the spin cycle of promotion.

Who was trapped?

Did I?

Jay, stay safe.

I accept your apology on behalf of all of our fans in America. You're good now in our books.
You always were good, but you're extra good. And hopefully we see you sooner than later, okay? Yeah, man, I appreciate it.
I hope you guys are staying safe, man. I just found out a friend of mine.
I found out a couple friends of mine I got, but it's like crazy. So just anybody you hear, any friends of yours have, make sure you call them and of your way say hey do you need anything if they have kids especially can we can we watch your kids can we get you guys groceries can we get you supplies just call your people can i watch your kid can i get your kid groceries no no okay i just asked he did ask all right it's a good message though you're Jay.
Take care of each other. Take care of each other.
Take care of each other during this time. Yeah.
We're going to get right back to the show. I get those goosebumps every time.
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All right, back to part of my take. Okay.
Firefest of the week. Henry Lockwood.
Daniel. Do it.
That was weird. Why? Why? I don't know.
You never called me Henry. Well, it's because you guys were playing your stool streams and you give yourself a stern, Henry! Yeah, you refer to yourself as Henry more than anybody else calls you Henry.
Yeah, it's true. I mean, I was referred to as Henry up until I started working here.
So it's like. And then you were Handsome Hank.
Then I was Handsome Hank. Now, I like the name Honk, though.
Honk is a good nickname. Honk's good.
Now, did you decide to go by Hank? Is this one of those things where you're like, I'm 18 now. I'm going to take my name into my own hands.
Or did somebody just start calling you Hank? No, KFC. KFC Barstool.
Actually, like one of my first days was just like, sorry, call me Handsome Hank. And that was kind of it.
Did you have a beard then? Nope, no beard. And you had a girlfriend? It was kind of ironic.
I think it was an ironic like Handsome Hank thing, but it stuck. But yeah.
Anyway, speaking of girlfriend, I was playing Call of Duty on stream, part of my take Twitch and I got killed in embarrassing fashion. My girlfriend was watching me.
She roasted the shit out of me, and then the clip got posted to Twitter, got posted to the main Barstool Sports Instagram page, which has like 10 million followers, and they didn't even have the decency to tag me. So I was basically subject to just getting roasted all over the Internet by everyone.
What did they caption it? Were they like, look at this sad sucker

getting roasted by his girlfriend.

Loser plays Call of Duty.

It was pretty much something like that.

I would love to see the YouTube screen on that one

where it's just Hank's face

looking really upset

and then big bubble letters behind you.

Simp boy gets killed in Call of Duty

and in real life.

Quigs got posted on TikTok too

and Quigs went out of his way

to say the Simp thing. So he's on my shit list for that.
Hold on, I'm trying to find it. duty and in real life quigs quigs they got posted on tiktok too and quigs uh went out of his way to

say the simp thing so he's on my he's on my shit list okay hold on i'm trying to find it when your own girlfriend starts roasting your call of duty skills that hurts simp girlfriend gives no ggs to boyfriend and call ggs all right so yes that's it's that's what it is so ggs yeah? Yeah. What? What is GGS? Good Game.
Oh, Good Game Soldier? Yeah. Oh, Stolen Valor.
Good Game Simp. Anyone who sees Hank out on the streets, or obviously not now, but when the world comes back to normal, please do not say, hey, what's up, Hank? Say, are you the dude who got roasted by his girlfriend because he sucks at Call of Duty? That would be awesome if Hank became a YouTube star, but every single clip was just Rhea making fun of him.
Yeah, just you freak. Oh, you should actually tap into that.
That's a good market. Like, have Rhea come in after every single time you've had a bad loss and be like.
I'm done having bad losses. No, that's not true.
Only dubs from here on out. That's not true.
I got one last night. I'm going to get one later tonight.
I'm going to get one tomorrow and I'm going to get one the next day. You got one against PFT? Yep.
I did. Three out of five.
It was supposed to be best out of seven. Yeah.
Not going to make excuses though. Okay.
PFT, what's your firefist? My firefist is I lost to Hank in three out of five in ping pong and so now I'm going to hear it from him and from you for a while now until we get back in there. It was, as I said supposed to be best out of seven my spin zone is number one um u.s rugby comes in second place all the time and sometimes if you do that enough you can be first place my second spin zone is just basically that uh i have nowhere to go but up from here and it's good to have a loss early in the season than it is to have one say in like the acc championship play.
That is my fire fest. Potentially for a national championship.
So I've got some time to work my way back. I'm very grateful for that, and I want the computers to know I'm going to be really focusing on whatever analytics you have that I need to succeed at.
I will do that. I will work my way back.
I'm going to do the Tim Tebow speech. You will never see a person work harder than me at ping pong for the rest of your life.

I will work so hard.

I promise.

I'm very excited to work hard.

And we're going to,

we'll post,

we'll post.

If you didn't see it on the Twitch,

we will post the full YouTube video.

It will be up right now.

And if you didn't see it on my Twitter,

PFT served the ball and then it hit right back into his face.

That was some,

that was some fuzzy editing right there.

Incredible moment.

It's amazing what you can do a deep fakes these days.

That's all I'm going to say.

My other right back in his face. My other fire fest of the week was I Red Wedding, and I didn't have a camera on myself to capture my reaction because a person who watches Red Wedding reaction videos are also very, very lucrative on YouTube.
So I'm an idiot for not doing that. Two girls, one cup.
That was a sneeze. Don't worry.
That's not part of coronavirus. Sneezing is not part of coronavirus.
It's not a explain that a lot. That was also one of those sneezes that just, you know, when you just, a sneeze just jumps in your nose.
It's not anything. It's a ghost.
Yeah, it's a ghost. I got a ghost.
All right. My Fire Fest.
Yeah, PFT alluded to it. I fucking shit the bed so bad.
I played in the ACC championship game. I love our Fire Fest.
They're just like at this point but uh i uh i guess we have a good life right now but i had the acc championship game gust duggerton spot in the national title james winston through six interceptions will you abandon your game plan i coach you abandon your game ied like a straight-up bitch.

Like, no two ways about it.

If we were reacting to my game on this show,

we would be roasting Gus Duggerton for one of the worst coaching performers of all time.

Panicked, left the run behind,

didn't run my Heisman running back at all,

just chucked it up and threw six interceptions. You were playing against Georgia Tech right Georgia Tech where they run a triple option against you yes so that's tough to defend right there like there's your team hasn't seen an offense like that all year this is a bad time to run into that they had two Heisman finalists and I don't know what it is about the NCAA game the franchise but if you if you go enough years into the dynasty mode Navy and Georgia Tech are always awesome.
Always. Where is the game being played? Charlotte.
Okay, yeah. That's a pro Georgia Tech crowd right there.
But here's a spin zone. I am playing in the Fiesta Bowl tonight against UConn.
The three-loss UConn. The new civil conflict.
Listen, yes, exactly. If you can't play in the national championship game, actually, I'd rather play in the Fiesta Bowl.
It's got all the allure. For all the Tostitos, you've got to make a trophy.
You have to make a new civil conference trophy. Yes, I actually have someone working on that.
And if you lose, send it to UConn. We might have an extra bucket here, but you need to fill up a Gatorade bath and bath yourself in Tostitos.
On my couch, yeah, I don't think that would play. The electric.
Stella would love it though.

Oh, with Tostitos.

Yes.

I was thinking with Gatorade.

No, Stella would have the time of her life.

No, like the guy with French fries.

Listen, not trying to point fingers, but last night I played the ACC championship game

and my passing coordinator, Stella, had already gone to bed.

So again, not pointing fingers.

No, she was up in the booth.

She usually sits right next to me while I whisper into the mic on Twitch. She had already put herself to bed.
Do you think that maybe it's time to put Coach Gus Duggerton up in the booth? He's been in the booth. He's too fat to stand on the sideline.
Well, then bring him down to the sideline. He can't stand for that long.
I feel like bring him down to the sideline in a Hugh Freeze hospital bed and just have him motoring around on his own little booger mobile. It was so sad.
I was so, so bad. There's nothing worse than just being so bad at a video game and having people watch so you can't restart it.
Like I would have restarted if I was sitting at home. Of course.
Shout out to the guy that does the Coach Doug's deep fakes that aren't deep fakes. We'll post a video like on Instagram or on the blog or whatever.
One of the craziest visuals I've ever seen. One of the craziest visuals I've ever seen.
Jaw-dropping stuff. Gus Duggerton's a very handsome man.
This guy's a handsome man. But basically what happened is I created a faked coach, and then a listener who lives in Jacksonville, who's a diehard Florida State fan, was like, oh, that guy looks like me.
And then just started putting on the florida state gear and being like let's go coach i love i don't know how this works in this world i actually think that if we go long enough in this quarantine we should just start creating random players and coaches and seeing if people can find them in real life you know it'd be great if uh if that guy actually got some interest in being like an like an offensive coordinator coordinator or maybe even just a quality control guy at a D3 school. He should.
Because he'll get some buzz on Twitter. Although maybe not after my performance at the ACC Championship game.
That's fine. You got to the ACC Championship game.
Are you going to get a head coaching offer? Yes. Not after this.
Dude, I had the Heisman Trophy winner. But imagine if you lose the ACC Bowl.
I would not hire Coach Gus Dugerton coming off a performance like this. This was your Kyle Shanahan Super Bowl moment and you bitched out.
Call him McCloud. Shout out to Call him McCloud.
Call him McCloud. I am guaranteeing a Fiesta Bowl victory.
Guaranteeing it. No way I lose in the Fiesta Bowl.
What if you don't? What if you lose? I will not because I'm going to change the slider so much in my favor That there is no chance I lose this game I think if you lose you have to do like a Dave Chappelle Take a couple years off, a couple seasons off No chance I lose Go hang out, I don't know Where would a guy like Gus Duggar go? Applebee's, he's actually got a $27,000 bill at Applebee's in Tallahassee He'd probably go to Montana and just fly fish for a couple years No no clear his mind and then come back he would just kind of just chill out in like a nice leather chair and just fart into it for five years a real fire fest of the week that's not about our our video games and sitting on couch watching tvs well this is actually like uh very appropriate for how the world is now the only exciting moments we have is our simulated life. It's actually crazy.
I got mad at myself. I was getting as amped up as I've gotten in months.
I got so mad at myself for not seeing the Red Wedding coming because I knew it was coming at some point. I didn't know which characters were going to be in it.
It's wild. For not putting two and two together that a bridge guy would do it.
Don't fuck with a bridge guy there's a family their entire family's purpose is to hang out next to a bridge and punish people that renege on their promises to cross said bridge yeah of course it's going to be that loser that does it yeah but a real fire fest this is for a long time diehard listener to the show our thoughts and prayers go out to you the dave and busters guy yes because he has not been able to go to Dave and Buster's for a month and a half.

But you know what?

And his girlfriend loves Buster's more than anything.

You know what?

I think that that guy right now, I actually envision that Dave and Buster's guy is probably

dealing with this whole thing better than anyone else.

No.

No, no, no.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No. No.
No. No.
No. No.
No. No.
Hear me out. Hear me out.
He's like, listen, I'm thinking about the betterment of the world. I have to just sit out for this.
But the moment all he's done every single night since we've been in quarantine is dreaming about his return to Dave and Buster's. And he has that.
Like a lot of people don't have the thing that they're going to be like, I can't wait to go back to work. Okay, cool.
This guy can't wait to go back to Dave and Buster buster's i think he's not dealing well i think that he's probably got a house that's filled with like he's got golden tea arcade games he's purchased an nba jam arcade game yeah he's got that bowling game where you spin the ball he's i think he's like trying to turn he's probably reached out to exhibit and been like hey can you pimp my van and turn my entire van into a skeeball machine?

I think he's – I'm just saying he could surprise people.

I don't know.

He could surprise – I just imagine that he's just like, you know what?

It's God's will that we had to close Dave and Buster's.

You're giving Dave and Buster's guy a very healthy outlook on life.

Well, that's because I actually think that he is unpredictable to that point where when you think you can predict him, he'll do the opposite. What do you think he misses most, the games, the food, or the prizes? I don't think he's a prize guy.
I would say incorrect to all of them. And how about just the ambiance? The atmosphere.
Yeah, just the electricity that goes through the air when you walk into a Dave & Buster. You walk in and you hear six air hockey tables going at once.
It's like God's slot machine

in there. It's wonderful.

He's probably going to gas

stations to play the claw machine. The sound of

an air hockey table turning on and

being activated.

If you don't put your hand down next to

an air hockey table like it's

the fire burner at Benihana right when

you turn it on, you and I can't be friends.

That feels so good just having that delicate air come up to you like the world's softest bowling air blower. It's beautiful.
All right, let's get to our interview. We got Bill's GM, Brandon Bean.
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safe and all of us here wishing you safety and good health.

Go to simply safe.com slash PMT. And now, Bills GM, Brandon Bean.
Okay, we now welcome on a very special guest. It is Bills, Buffalo Bills GM, Brandon Bean.
We appreciate you joining us. I know you're busy getting ready for the draft.
I think the question that you know is coming and that all of our fans want us to ask before we get into this year's draft and everything else. How much did draft Josh Allen play a part in you drafting Josh Allen? It was every bit.
I mean, if you guys didn't put that together, Josh Allen wouldn't be in Buffalo. You know that.
That was the first thing I checked when I was going through which quarterback we really wanted to try and trade up and get. I owe you guys big time.
Yes. Thank you.
We love Josh. I appreciate that.
You've been doing a lot of media this week. I've noticed that.
That's a little bit unusual for a general manager. So we'll let you just have the floor.
You tell us what misinformation you've been trying to get out there, what smoke screens you want to put out, and then we'll just let that go. Yeah, give us your top three first so it's right at the top.
Well, honestly, the only reason, you know, I'm usually trying to avoid the media this time of year until I can get through the draft, to your point on the smoke screens. But screens but no honestly just been trying to get the word out you know to raise money in Buffalo uh for uh the COVID-19 and the fund that we've got partnered with United Way but um other than that you know we're uh uh we're just trying to get adjusted and and there's really no smoke screens heck we're not picking in the first round due to the do the digs trade so So we're going to have to watch and then kind of make some decisions after Thursday's first round.
So you mentioned that. That was actually going to be my next question.
Without a first-round draft pick, is there more pressure or less pressure when you're going to a draft night? Because I'm sure you're sitting there being like, well, we don't have to pick for a while, but are you still like, we've got to make our picks count and maybe we'll try to trade up in the first round. Yeah.
I mean, we definitely have to, you know you know, make the most of this draft. We got us.
And I think Pittsburgh and Houston, we probably got the three least value of picks remaining. You know, if you don't have that first round pick, it's so valuable.
So obviously we traded it for digs who, you know, we just, we thought at the end of the day that what we could get at 22 wasn't going to be the player that Diggs is. And so that's why we made the move.
But it will be hard. I'm very passionate about my draft picks.
So rarely are you going to see, as long as I'm here, the Buffalo Bills traded number one. But this was just a move.
And especially in light of what's going on around our country, we don't even know what kind of offseason we're going to have. So to be able to get a veteran versus schooling a rookie up, we just thought made the most sense this year.
So to your question, it's going to be hard. You know, I'm going to struggle watching the first round, but I'll be excited when it's over because at that point I can start figuring out who's on the board and who we can try and scheme to get, but I don't see us going into the first round.
So since you guys don't have a first round pick, do you still do your due diligence and you make a full big board, including the top guys like Joe Burrow to all those guys, or are they actually like printed out on a board in your office? No, we still go through the process because, and we did a lot of this in February before the combine. You know, I try and, you know, me and my staff, a lot of work on what these players are before we go meet them and watch them run 40s, whether they're good 40s or bad 40s.
Let's grade on what we saw in the fall more than anything else. So, no, we did a lot of work.
Now I will say once we traded the pick at this point, we, we've kind of slotted off and said, all right, who are the automatics? Who are the guys we know right now going in the top 10, top 12, top 15 that, you know, and honestly, we came up with about 20 names that were like, these guys are all going in the first round. Doesn't matter which team.
So after those 20, we've really focused on the rest because late first to end the two, I mean, you look at a guy like DK Metcalf last year. A lot of people had him going high in the first round.
Can't turn. He falls to late two.
Yeah. Yeah.
So, all right. So this might be a very stupid question, and you can tell me if it's stupid.

But sitting there, you're sitting on your computer.

You know that some of these experts are talking to everyone.

Do you read the mock drafts that, you know, Mike, or not Mike Mayock anymore,

Daniel Jeremiah, Mel Kiper, Todd McShay, do you read those that they put out

and be like, all right, maybe I can get some information from here that tells me what everyone else is thinking about? You know, I look at it. It's good bathroom reading.
Okay. I do flip it on once in a while.
It's a good time. No distractions and, you know, flip around and see what, you know, those guys, they have intel and they're using team needs and things like that.
And as it, honestly, until it gets close, you really don't pay attention that much. I do think some of these guys do have some pretty good intel when it gets close, people start talking, you know, around teams and around the league.
But at the end of the day, I use it more analytically as far as, you know, putting a, you know, a composite of a lot of mocks and you can kind of figure out by the, these are the consensus over 50 mocks that are, we call somewhat credible. And these are the consensus guys.
It's not necessarily the order, but at least it's the guys that, you know, Hey, in 48 out of these 50 um this guy is gone in the first round right or gone 35 something like that so all right so going off that question because this is a little quick follow-up that i'm always interested in how much uh what's the mandate when it comes to your scouts on how much they're allowed to talk to the media because i would assume they can get information coming back so you want to let them at least have contacts but are you like hey if you guys say anything to anyone it's over yeah i mean pretty much i'm of the belief uh loose lips sink ships yeah and i would rather not have the intel than than lose it so i really don't have my crew and and sean does a good job of having our coaches this time of year. It's, it's lay low and less is more right now.
Yeah. You worked very closely with Dave Gettleman in Carolina.
Do you, I know that he probably impacted the way that you think about putting a football team together a little bit. Do you also believe that real swag is no swag?

Dave's a swaggy guy.

Is he?

In what way is Dave Gettleman a swaggy guy? I'm interested.

Dave's the only GM that walks around the office in flip-flops.

Oh, okay.

I give him props for that. He's a proud man he calls his feet he calls his toes his puppies um so uh he's dave was a lot of fun to work for and work with but he's got his own kind of swag he really does so uh i got nothing but good things to say about dave uh how do you think he's going to deal with the computer situation on draft night because we we did see the picture tweeted out of him at a computer, and it looked like he had never turned on a computer.
No, he had a big binder in between him and the computer. It's like this binder is what I'm actually using.
The computer is a paperweight. Yeah, so is he a computer guy? You can't trust him.
He's smart, man. He's throwing all the curveballs out there.
He's actually pretty tech savvy. So don't let him fool you in all seriousness.
Okay. So going off your time with the Panthers, a free agent that's out there right now, Cam Newton, your guy who you guys drafted there, you went to a Super Bowl with him.
Where do you think his skill set is at right now at this point of his career? Do you think he still has another five years as a starter? And what made you fall in love with him to begin with? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, his physical stature and his athletic ability and, you know, his ability to win. I mean, the guy didn't lose at Blinn.
He didn't lose at Auburn. And, I mean, he was like a one-man band.

I mean, there wasn't a lot of other talent on that team.

They had a couple of guys.

Nick Fairley was on the D line, but they weren't loaded.

And, I mean, they came back to beat Alabama the way they did in that game.

Just the guy was a winner, and I think it carried over.

And, listen, I wouldn't be in my seat right now if we didn't have the success that we had, obviously the 15 and one season in Carolina. And so Cam's a guy I root for.
I think he deserves another chance. You know, it's, it's unfortunate.
The injuries the last couple of years have slowed him down and, and I'm sure there's some doubt around the league. And, and I think Cam is as you guys, you know, I don't know if you've ever talked to him, but he's probably a little bit of a misunderstood guy.
People aren't sure, okay, what would I be bringing into my building, into my locker room? You know, I think whoever signs Cam is going to know this guy's got a chip on his shoulder right now. I know how he's wired.
He feels doubted. And I think he's in a strong spot.
You know, when he's doubt's going to try and prove people wrong does he text you in the weird in the weird like oh that whole shit uh honestly you know cam and i uh we don't text very often or anything like that so i give him a a good a good hug or you know bro hug or whatever if i see him but uh now nothing but love for Cam. No, I don't understand all his texting.
So this offseason, you're going into it a little bit differently than Buffalo has had to approach an offseason in the last 15 years or so. Tom Brady is no longer in that division, so you're not going to play against him twice when you play against the Patriots.
Is that going to impact the type of players that you're looking at, just the sheer fact that you don't have to deal with him and you're going to have to deal with a different type of quarterback in New England? Or is it just like we're going to scout our guys the same way that we've always scouted them, what other teams are doing is not going to impact how we construct our football team? Yeah, I mean, it's a good question in the sense that you do have to win your division. So you have to look at what you're going against.

And I will give you an example.

When we were in Carolina years ago when Michael Vick was rolling, that was the impetus for

drafting Thomas Davis was we needed speed.

And, you know, Thomas played safety at Georgia, and we converted him down to linebacker.

We just didn't have the speed to chase him down.

So there are times where you will draft somebody to stop an opponent. I know we got, we drafted, you know, Josh Norman and James Bradbury because we were going against Julio Jones, Mike Evans.
You know, we needed a bigger corner to go against those guys. So there are times you do that.
You know, I would say for us, you know, we're trying to, you know, pay a bigger corner uh to go against those guys so there are times you do that you know i would say for us you know we're trying to you know pay attention to everybody including the patriots but honestly i don't know yet what they're going to do at quarterback i don't know if it's if it's what's on the roster if they're going to draft somebody they're still you know you mentioned cam newton there's some other veterans that are out there uh that maybe they're working on behind the scenes. So we're not, you know, plotting, you know, none of our free agent moves were based on who's a quarterback.
We're just trying to, you know, be the best version that we can be. And we'll see what shakes out and what quarterback, you know, Bill Belichick goes with.
Did you pop a little champagne when Brady announced he was going to the Bucs? I really didn't. You know, our fan base did, and they probably don't like it when I say it.
But, you know, I know I speak for Sean as well. We were 0-6 against Brady up here.
And so, to me, you know, there's nothing more exciting than, you know, than we were looking forward to was the opportunity to take him, you know, take him down. And so he was, became a free agent and he left.

And so the only thing we can do is at some point,

hopefully play him in Tampa and get a chance there.

But at the end of the day, the Patriots, Bill Belichick, you know,

he is probably the greatest coach of all time.

I don't think they're going anywhere.

Who's the best, what's the best pick you've ever made? The best pick I've ever made? I don't know. I mean, that's hard for me to say.
You know, we're still so young. I've only had two drafts.
All right. So maybe even count the Panthers, too.
What's the pick that you, it was the, you know, draft night, and you're standing on the table being like, this is my guy, the guy that you felt the strongest about. Yeah, I mean, probably the last draft there you know us drafting Christian McCaffrey you know that was um and now I I'm not gonna lie I couldn't tell you that he was gonna be the highest paid running back that he the contract he now has um but I was at his pro day and not only did he put on I think the most impressive thing that he did at his pro day was after he did

the running back drills,

he went out and they had a few receivers that year that were later guys or

free agents that he went out and put on a clinic, you know, from the slot,

from the outside. I mean, he looked like, God, I'd draft this guy, you know,

at a minimum as a slot receiver and a returner.

And then, you know, he had the running back skills. So, you know, I think he was what I call a sleep good at night pick.
It is stand on the table season. I'm glad Big Cat brought that up.
Have you ever actually stood on a table in a draft room for somebody? No, but I've been waiting until I came to Buffalo since everybody breaks tables. So maybe at some point, maybe we should have everybody stand on the table

and see if we can bust through a burning table or something like that.

No, I've never stood on a table.

When you decided to bring Frank Gore in, was the size of his balls a key contributor

that you could see on all his highlights just flopping around?

I can't lie.

Frank definitely is a big baller. He's a big baller.
Yeah, hey, look, we've all seen it. It just happens in slow-mo.
All right, I got a dumb question for you. How much credit do you give to Moneyball and Billy Bean being probably the most famous GM out there in sports to you getting a GM job? Because I'm a big name guy.
And when I saw Brandon Bean, I was like, oh, is he Billy's brother? Like, he must be smart. Do you think that plays maybe even 1% into you having the success you've had? No relation, by the way.
Yeah, no relation. You know, I've been asked, you know, many times was I kidding to him along And, uh, it's funny.
It really came up when I got the job, people that didn't know me from Buffalo asking that question. But, uh, you know, you got to say there's probably some percent.
I don't want to say zero. Yes.
Because people probably said, ah, they probably just make the assumption. Uh, he must be kind to Billy B.
Yeah. And he, and smart guy.
He knows how to draft. I mean, I had the exact same question.
There are a lot of people out there with dumb brains like us that would be willing to hire you just based on that. Yeah.
You definitely want a coin flip if they're like, all right, we could hire this guy or Billy Beans maybe brother. Exactly.
You made the assumption I won the coin toss. Let's say 5% of my my job in Buffalo I wouldn't get if Billy Bean hadn't had his success.
Yes. I know that there's certain teams out there that are very impressed with college captains.
So if you were a captain on your team, like a two-year captain or something like that, they give you bonus points for that in their mind. Do you take that into account at all? or is it just strictly, you know, the other stuff that you evaluate and you say, you know, what their team voted on, that's not really what we're looking at here? Yeah, I think it's definitely part of the puzzle.
And, you know, we do ask that. You know, some teams only do game captains, so those can be bounced around.
I don't hold a lot of weight in those, but the guys that are voted, the season captains, some of them, I like it when they do it at the end of the season. You know, you have their, some coaches will vote.
This was our team captains for the end of the year. These are the guys that led us all season.
So you do have to kind of ask one question deeper. Were you a captain? Was it voted on by your team? Was it voted on by the coaches? How did you get named that? But it definitely weighs in as a piece what about birthday parties do you ever ask how many of your teammates came to your birthday party yeah um no but you know what i've never thought of that's not a bad idea we'll we'll add that to our uh so you haven't watched draft day then with kevin costner no uh damn you're gonna get taken to the cleaners somebody's to fleece you.
Somebody who's watched that and owns it on DVD and seen the behind-the-scenes commentary is going to absolutely wreck you in the draft this year. He asked them their birthday? Bo Callahan.
It was not a believable movie because it was Bo Callahan, the star quarterback for Wisconsin. Also because the Browns were competent.
Right. Where I went and we don't I mean, we're not getting a first overall pick out of Wisconsin, out of the Big Ten like that.
But they basically were like, well, none of his teammates went to his birthday party so he must not be a great locker room guy. That was the intel.
I gotcha. I'm going to add that.
That's actually legit. I like it.

Yes.

Yes.

Ask, like, who, you know, did you guys go play skee-ball with your quarterback

when his birthday came up?

Dave and Busters.

Have you ever done a trick where you put, like, a dollar bill or a $100 bill

in the back of a book, a playbook that you hand a guy,

and then you wait to see if he brings it up in your interview with him?

No, because all our playbooks are – I'd have to be, like,

or something. They're all on iPads.
Cash app. Yeah, you get to the last page, and it's, boom, cash app in your interview with them no because all our playbooks are i'd have to be like or something

they're all on ipad cash yeah you get to the last page and it's boom cash app yeah account yeah mate it's not a bad idea what's the weird or what's your go-to question at the combine uh go-to question usually it's um how did you pick you know whatever school auburn? What were your options, first of all?

Because sometimes McNeese State or wherever you went,

that might have been your only option.

But what were your options?

And I always like to ask people how many stars were they?

And sometimes look it up like, oh, I was a five-star.

No, you weren't.

You were a two-star.

You know what I mean?

So does anyone ever answer that question, they just paid the most?

No, but I have inferred some things and gotten some smiles and said,

oh, they give you a bigger cash bag.

Interesting.

Oh, no, no, and they're giggling in the side.

Right.

You know.

Right.

I love it.

I love it.

Would you like to take this moment to thank Antonio Brown

for using his nonexent trade clause last year

to avoid going to Buffalo? Oh man, you got to bring that one up. That's pretty good.
You know what? Here's one of the lines we have. Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.
Yep. And that happens.
And that's so true. There's sometimes you've had a guy and you almost got him and at the last minute he didn't and then something happened.

He got hurt the first week of OTAs or the first game of the season. You're going, man, that would have cost me $12 million on my cap or something like that.
So I would say sometimes on this one the best moves are the ones you don't make. I said this at the end of your playoff run, and I was rooting for the Buffalo Bills.
I wanted the Bills to advance. I thought that you guys had a fun team.
It was constructed in a fun way, and we like Josh down a lot. But you're in kind of an interesting situation, Buffalo, because the way that you've built your team, it's kind of like you're going to play in this one style that you ended up playing in last year.
I'm dumb, so that might be part of it, but I don't really see what part of your team you would focus on making additions to this year, unless there are guys that are leaving that might be aging out of that position. But you're built to have a solid running game, good, strong, tough-nosed defense.
And so I got to ask you, is there a position in particular you knew this entire off season, we need an upgrade at this one to take us to that next level? Yeah. I mean, I think digs was the move we needed a number one.
You know, I tried to make a trade at the, at the trade deadline. You know, some of the receivers that, that you guys saw, we were, we were checking in on, on pretty much all the ones that did get traded and then some of the ones like stefan that uh the teams were not willing to part with them but there were several that didn't get traded that that we were after and uh and then some of the ones that did it was either more than we were willing to give up or the team you know an af an nfc i mean an afc team wanted to send them to an nfc team or something like that they didn't want to, you know, have to play us.
But I think that was the biggest thing. You know, you go back to that Houston game.
At the end of the day, we settled for too many field goals and not enough touchdowns in the first half. We got the touchdown the first drive, but after that, it was field goal, field goal, field goal.
And, you know, it's hard to go 10 plays, 12 plays, 13 plays because one penalty or, you know, a sack, anything like that, a negative play, and then you're either punting or a field goal most of the time. So, Stephon is a big play guy.
We just felt like we needed more juice. A guy, you get the ball in his hands and he makes one guy miss and he can score.
And that was the impetus we just we got to score more points you know this next season all right my last question I'm always fascinated with this and how draft rooms work and the lead up to the draft do you do anything specifically to avoid having that confirmation bias when you're trying to pick a player like your scouts you're you've already made your mind up and you're just looking for the two scouts that agree with you. How does that kind of break down when you're evaluating a guy right up until draft day and trying to figure out how to make this decision with all the intel that you can have and not just who you personally like? Yeah, that's real.
I'll tell you, today we were going through the horizontal part. So you stack them vertically, you know, quarterbacks, running backs, receivers, all the way left to right.
And now you start looking at, okay, I'm in the third round, and I've got this wide receiver, and then I've got this defensive tackle, and I've got this corner. They're all around the same grade.
You know, you work all the way down first round second round third round do these guys all belong in the same conversation is one of these guys clearly better should he be in another conversation should he be high three low two you just kind of it's a checks and balances of of not only you're by position but across the board so that if you get on the clock and you got all three of those, three of those there's who you taking. And so, you know, we went back and forth.
I mean, there's one of my scouts actually texted me. When we broke for lunch, Hey, sorry, if I got a little heated there.
And, and I said, no, I said, I don't want group think like we got to get it right. It's not my board.
It's the Buffalo Bills board. And so I don't – at the end of the day, we got to get it right for us, and it's not just my guy.
There are times where I really am more passionate about one guy, but I'll stack the other guy if I'm clearly in the minority. I like that.
I like passion. You get good results from passion.
I've got a question on the special team side of the ball. If you are looking at kickers, would you rather have a guy that can hit, you know, maybe four out of seven from 55 yards plus, or a guy that could go nine out of 10 from, you know, 35 and in? Well, you're talking about a 35-yard field goal? Yeah.

I got you.

Yeah, I mean, I'd rather have the guy deep.

I mean, I think if you were going to say – You'd count the same, though.

Yeah, if you were going to say 45 –

like if this guy is like 9 of 10 from 45 and in.

No, he's like 3 of 10 from 45.

No, no, he's like 3 of 6.

50% from 45 out, and then anything 45 in will say 85%. And he's got an onside kick that hits a recovery rate of like 30%.
I'll take that, especially in these current onside kick rules. Nobody can get a dang onside kick anymore.
Okay, so that actually was me that I was describing. You get a 30% time onside kick recovery? Yeah.
Really? Yeah. I can get 30%.
I've got a special onside kick anymore okay so that actually was me that i was describing you get a 30 percent time outside kick recovery yeah really yeah i can get 30 i've got a special onside kick that nobody else uses so or that was me i believe that you've uh verbally committed to signing me is this on madden football is or is this like really your live kicking this is my live kicking this is training with morton anderson and on the field with the dc defenders in practice and also i went on to the onside kick with our our co-workers za and big t who's like six foot five and za is what three foot ten yeah he recovered 30 percent of our onsides kicks oh yeah do you have video of this so i can uh yeah we can we can cut up a little a little highlight reel a little hype reel for you. I want to see these guys trying to recover.
That would be the best part. Yes.
All right. So I believe that's a verbal commitment to at least bring me in for a workout.
There you go. It's a workout.
It's a workout. Yeah.
All right. Well, Brandon Bean, thank you so much.
We really appreciate you spending some time with us. Can we plug the – is it United Way again one last time? Yeah, that'd be great.
So tomorrow is the last day. So by four o'clock tomorrow, it closes.
Here's the website. It's wnyresponse.org.
If you can just go there, any of the Bills Nation out there, we got six or seven cool prizes. One, you're going to be able to be on the phone with me when we turn in the first pick and you'll see the interaction, as I call it, the draft pick that we select.
And got some other cool prizes other than that. It's on the website, though.
They can go on there and see it. That's great.
Yeah, check it out. Thanks so much.
Really appreciate it. Good luck in the draft.
Thanks, guys. Good seeing you.
Good talking to you. That interview with Brandon Bean was brought to you by CBDMD.
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at CBDMD. Okay, let's get to our Mount Flushmore.
Then we're going to do a review of the scheme with Christian Dawkins, the guy who was in the scheme, the guy who was the main character of the scheme. That's coming up in a second.
We have a Mount Flushmore that I think we need to put a disclaimer. We're going to do the Mount Flushmore of states.
But if you're listening to this and your state is called, just know we're not talking about you specifically. We're talking about a space.
We're talking about a geographical location. Not even that.
Not about you. No, if your state is called, think about the shittiest person you know think about the shittiest neighbor you have we're talking about them specifically okay it's not you you actually made us think twice about putting your state on there it's your neighbor that sucks absolutely not hasn't is not neighbor troy who keeps fucking parking random cars in the in the front lawn he's the worst he is.
He's very, very bad. The guy that called the cops because you had a couple friends over after 1130.
Yep. That's the guy that we're talking about.
All right. It's my pick first, and then who goes second? I think me second, and then Hank circles back.
Yes, that's correct. Okay.
I will start. Why don't I ever go second? Yeah, I think Hank goes second.
Okay, fine. Hank goes second.
I've never picked second. That's not true.
Because when you go first, Big Cat picks second. When I go first, you pick second.
When Big Cat goes, you should not go second again. He's got a good point.
Fine, I'll go third. I'll go twice.
Good. All right, I'll start with the most unremarkable state.
I don't even know if we have a listener here. If we do have a listener here, tweet us.
We'd love to hear from the listeners in the great state of South Dakota. Who the fuck cares? Wait, South Dakota, Mount Rushmore.
Yeah, exactly. It's the opposite.
You've got four great listeners there. Yeah, it's true, but it's the opposite.
This segment wouldn't exist if this state didn't exist. How can you say that? Yeah, that's tough.
That's a tough start. South Dakota.
Okay, Hank. It's me? Yes.
Okay. There's great pheasant hunting in South Dakota, by the way.
You just Googled that? No, I just know it. That's the only thing I know about South Dakota.
My first one, an absolute no-brainer. A few years ago, I did a college tour where I basically went all over the South.
Every state had a great time in pretty much all of them. The only one that was a bad time, just a miserable place to be, Mississippi.
Oh, wow. Northeastern bias.
What about Brandon Walker? Brandon Walker's alright. Mississippi, uh-oh.
No, I knew that this was obviously going to get picked, so I told Brandon Walker, can you text me some nice things about Mississippi? So here they are. They didn't sell ice.
I was told basically that- They don't sell ice in Mississippi? No, I was basically told that there was some type of government corruption where one of the mayors owned all of the ice shops so that gas stations couldn't sell ice until 2007. That sounds fucking awesome, though.
You have a mayor and the mayor gets that power to just hoard all the ice? All the things that got switched over in the 60s and 70s, 80s, that didn't happen in Mississippi until like five years ago. Okay.
Here we go. Civil rights.
Think cool things about Mississippi. Brandon fucking Walker.
Elvis. Oprah.
Morgan Freeman. Fried catfish.
Walter Payton. Jerry Rice.
Brett Favre. Southern food.
But that's all. That's a weird dude.
Those are all examples though. Fried catfish Walter Payton Jerry Rice Brett Favre Southern Food But that's all That's a weird dude Those are all examples though Fried Catfish and Southern Food Yeah, Fried Catfish is also You can get that anywhere Yeah, there's so many good players from Mississippi I think Brandon just got hungry when he started listening Mississippi was such a shitty state That those people were so motivated to get out That they like worked extra hard That's really mean Yeah, I don't know He's a friend of of ours.
Elaine Kiffin, Mike Leach. I bet you they would agree.
Brett Favre. Mike Leach literally just picked.
He left Washington to go to Mississippi. Ed Werder for 60% of the 90s when he was hanging out next to Brett Favre trying to figure out if he was coming back.
All right. PFT, you have two picks.
Mississippi is a bad choice. That's I-95 Hank right there.
I'm going to defend Brandon Walker. Telling Mississippi wasn't on your list, PFT, you have two picks.
Mississippi is a bad choice. That's just, that's I-95 Hank right there.
I just, I'm going to defend Brandon Walker. I mean, tell me Mississippi wasn't on your list, PFT.
It was not on my list. I'm looking through my list.
I'm not going to give away too much. I don't have any states that are in the South on my list.
I love the South. Okay.
To who? The South. The South.
Okay. You just said I love the South.
I do love the South. Okay.
Delaware, number one.

A number one Delaware.

What is in Delaware?

All our taxes.

They've got all our taxes.

Delaware wasn't a state.

When you said Delaware, I almost was like, that's not a state.

You forgot about Delaware, right?

You probably would have had it on your list, but you forgot about it.

All that's in Delaware is, I guess, Joe Biden's corpse

and those weird tax companies, credit card companies.

Those are important, though. That's it.
Those are important. My my second choice dewey beach is okay shout out svp yeah do i would i thought you if you see svp at dewey beach this summer make sure you buy him a shot he loves that did you also whisper did i grow up in delaware also whisper in his ear say svp you look like a penis And also be like, hey, SVP, remember to call me and leave me a message.
SVP, the Terps stink. So, yeah, Delaware, easy number one.
Tremendous value pick on my part, taking that number three. My second is going to be, I'm going New Mexico.
New Mexico, they've got hatch chili peppers. They've got Breaking Bad.
That's about it. They tested nuclear weapons there because they knew there wasn't anything to blow up.
There's no hills. No hills, really? Yeah.
Okay. Just flat.
Hank? That was actually my second pick. You took that from me.
I will go with the state we're all in right now, New York. Ooh.
New York State. The Big Apple.
Although I will say that since this quarantine has started, it's one of those things where you realize that New York could be nice if like 80% of the population just wasn't here all the time. Because like walking around during quarantine, it's nice.
Like there's not a million people on the street and it's like a normal city. You shouldn't be walking around.
Well, I had to get to the office somehow. And I take walks just to clear my mind.

What if everyone took walks all the time?

Walking is encouraged, I believe.

What if everyone was doing it?

Okay, so you're saying that New York City...

Just keep social distance.

New York City would be nice if it wasn't for all the people.

Okay.

Yeah, just New York in general, trash teams, trash city.

My second pick will then be,

I can't believe you didn't do this instead.

How about New York City's parking lot?

New Jersey.

Sopranos. Sopranos, yeah sopranos and jersey gets a bad rap i think and the jersey beaches a little bit you ever been to a jersey beach they're not bad yeah uh okay new jersey new jersey embraces its new jersey new york has this like attitude of of eliteness that i just don't i don't appreciate You don't jive with it? No.
Okay. And then my third pick, I'll go with Kansas.

I don't appreciate. You don't jive with it? No.
And then my third pick, I'll go with Kansas. I have nothing for Kansas.
The Jayhawks, that's it. Literally nothing.
Wizard of Oz. What was that movie made, 300 years ago? Great.
All right, piggybacking off that, Nebraska. No.
No, disagree. Danny Woodhead.
Danny Woodhead from North Platte. Okay.
PFT? Really, Nebraska? Yeah, you picked Nebraska. All right.
College World Series. We all watch that.
A lot of good stuff. Who won the last College World Series? LSU.
That might be true. It might be.
I think Vanderbilt? No. Vanderbilt.
Vanderbilt does win it a lot. I was going to say, it's like Caltech Poly.
Vanderbilt had like two good pitchers three years ago, but I don't think they won. Vanderbilt did win it a couple years ago.
College World Series kick-ass. Vanderbilt.
Vanderbilt. Thank you.
Fuck you, PFD. Vanderbilt.
I knew they won it. They beat Michigan.
Yeah. All right.
Don't question my Vanderbilt juggernaut in baseball. A lot of pressure here.
Knowledge. I'm going to go with Missouri.
Yeah, that's a good pick. Not a fan of Missouri.
You know what? Cardinals fans. Missouri should be better considering all the resources that they have there.
They've got the Ozark Mountains. They've got a lot of lakes.
They've got some big metropolis areas. But one of the metropolis areas is named after a different state.
Their best city

is in

Kansas. It's not

even in Missouri.

Where is...

What were you going to say?

Kansas City.

It's in Missouri. It's in Kansas.

Right, but Arrowhead is in Missouri.

Kansas City is in Kansas. Arrowhead's in Missouri.
Are you disagreeing with the president of the United States? Okay, so the Kansas City Royals are in Missouri. Space out of Missouri.
Yes. So what are you talking about? So you basically have many pro sports teams.
Have you been to Kansas City, Kansas? No. Kansas City, Kansas is better.
You don't know that. that I've been there okay well did you go to a Chiefs game I did not go to Chiefs because they're in Missouri Super Bowl champs are in Missouri that's not what was reported previously this offseason I don't know what joke you're making about Trump no he said congratulations to the great state of Kansas yeah I don't I didn't know what joke you're making okay so I did not know stay did not know.
Stay informed. Okay.
And then my last one, this might be a little bit controversial, Nevada. Vegas is great.
Vegas is awesome. Vegas is great.
Reno is okay. But in between that, there's a whole lot of nothing.
Vegas is just too good of a thing to like, that's someplace you go. I'm picking states I'm never going to go to.
Fuck them. Well, New Jersey.
No, I'm not going to New Jersey. Fuck that.
Sportsbook? Yeah, I guess I'm going to go to New Jersey. All right, your last pick, Hank? This is tough.
It's tough. It feels tough.
I was literally just about to look up the 50 states. I thought I had one more pick.
List as many as you can. Hank says Massachusetts.
List as many as you can. I will go with the great state of Utah.
Freaks. Religious freaks.
Only state. Only state.
Our Mormon fan base is not going to be happy with that one. But I don't understand how one state, how that works.
How does that work? Someone explain that to me. Hank, you should respect Utahns more because they are the ones that called LeBron a little B-word.
That was Gordon Hayward. But you're going to be LeBron's little B-word.
Oh, true. Yeah.
They weren't calling LeBron a B-word. They were saying that you're going to go be B-worded by LeBron.
By LeBron, yeah. I don't know.
I feel like they wouldn't like LeBron much in Utah. Okay.
My last pick is going to be Oklahoma. Do you think we have a lot of Mormon listeners? Maybe.
It's either all or nothing. Like, we're either the hottest Mormon podcast.
I feel like when we talked about soaking, like, we didn't really get a big response. We're literally the hottest.
Calvary Noir was on my Twitch. The hottest podcast in the Mormon community or not a single Mormon has listened to it.
I think it's one or the other. I don't think if you poll Mormons, they'll be like, eh, maybe.
Do you think that they have a version, a part of my take, that's like their version of beer where it's 3% alcohol? Bleeps everything out? Where it's bleeped out. Wait, what? And they just don't do guys on chicks? Yeah, Mormons don't drink.
They do guys on chicks on chicks. What's the 3% alcohol thing? They serve near beer there.
Fun fact about Utah, when they pour beer, you can only get like a 3% beer in a bar, and when they pour the drink, they have to do it behind a little curtain because you're not supposed to see the alcohol going into the cup because it's too sexual. But this whole thing was invented in like 1942, right? I think it was probably a little bit before that but yeah i want to say 1800s

yes something like oregon trail times love danny age though and the age fam okay uh obviously not um your whole state sucks yeah oklahoma's my final pick oklahoma okay i don't really like it's a jv texas it's it's a jv texas tornadoes really suck and also i'll be honest probably going to piss off some people, but I still feel like the Thunder have blood on their hands for robbing the world of the Supersonics. It's just not right.
I think that's fair. It's just not right.
You do have great college. It is a college football state, not even college football town.
We also have that waitress, Raven, at the Chili's in Oklahoma who offered us mushrooms mushrooms, psychedelic mushrooms, right after our appetizers. In Oklahoma? Yeah, Oklahoma City.
For what occasion? We were passing through. We stopped at the Chili's, and we started talking.
And literally the second time, she drinks in appetizers. Then she came back.
She's like, you guys like to party? Yeah. I'm still friends with her on Snapchat.
She gets blunted on the daily before work. Good for her.
Before work. Shout out, Raven.
Yeah. Also, they got their whole panhandle cucked by Texas.
Yeah. So they have the panhandle, and it makes sense when it's Oklahoma because it does look like a panhandle.
But then Texas just said, we're going to call that top left part of our state. The panhandle.
It doesn't look like a panhandle, but when I think panhandle, I think like north of Odessa. Right.
If you took the Sooners and the Oklahoma State Cowboys out of Oklahoma, I would never think about Oklahoma. There's no reason to go there.
Yeah, I would never, ever think about that state. But I do like watching Sooner games because I love listening to the music go and the fucking cart.
That's electric. I do maintain that the color of the sky at night during an Oklahoma City night game, it's a different pitch black.
It's like the cover of that Spinal Tap album. Yeah, because they don't have lights anywhere in the city.
That's a fun fact. In the state, yeah.
Yeah, in the entire state. There are two stoplights.
Yeah. Okay.
Let's get to our interview with Christian Dawkins from The Scheme. Before we do that, PFT, you got one last act.
Yes. Before we get to Christian Dawkins talking to you guys about Shady Rays, as you guys know, we've been talking about our friends at Shady Rays all year long.
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And now Christian Dawkins. Okay.
We now welcome on Christian Dawkins from the new HBO documentary, The Scheme. If you haven't watched it, go watch it.
It is the story of the NCAA men's basketball corruption scandal. And Christian, you are central figure in this entire thing.
Let's first start with what is your current legal status? Are you in an appeals process? Where are you at with that? Yeah, we are currently appealing both cases. I was involved with two cases.
So we're appealing both of the cases that I was involved in, the outcome that I was involved in. Okay.
So let's assuming that people haven't seen it. I'm sure a lot of people listening will have seen it because everyone has nowhere to go, but can you give us kind of the backstory of how you got involved in this entire thing and how you became a central figure for this documentary and this case? So are you saying from the vantage point of involved in the case or involved in a documentary? Involved in the case.
Okay. So basically to make a long story short and not give away too much, I was working at a major company.
I wanted to start my own representation business on the management side. I decided I wanted to branch off.
It was an amicable split and it was time for me to try to take in outside funding. As I'm having the conversations with the financial advisor at the time who's helping me raise the capital, he introduces me to what he calls or what he thought they were at the time was real estate investors.
So they invested money into his fund, obviously, to make themselves seem like they were legitimate business people. He then brings them to me as a potential investor into my new sports business.
and once they got in and they gave me money, they bought a piece of the company, we created a contract, blah, blah, blah. And they were my partners.
And as I'm recruiting, as I'm trying to build a business, they're right there side by side trying to build a criminal case. That's essentially what happened.
So your business that you were trying to start was you were developing these relationships with kids, whether they were high school players from the AAU circuit, whatever, and just kind of being there for them, helping them as they were trying to figure out what college they were going to go to in the hope that when they were drafted in the NBA,

you would be their legal representative for marketing deals, things like that. Is that a fair assessment? Correct.
Okay. So you're trying to work with these kids, and the guy that you end up getting into business with turns out that he is working for the FBI.
He's an FBI agent. and his idea is to give you money,

but he's not interested in catching you paying kids because as they said in the documentary, that's not illegal. It's not illegal for somebody to give a high school kid $10,000, $50,000.
It just happens to be against the NCAA bylaws, which is not in the US penal code. So this guy who the fbi uh agent he's trying to change the way that you do business and giving you money and instructing you to pay this money to coaches and it was fascinating hearing your reaction to that because it was clear that you were like this guy doesn't know how business is done here uh how long did it take you you know taking his money to be like there's something seriously wrong like what's in it for him if he's just giving you money to hand to coaches i'll be honest with you guys man i mean the calls that you guys heard are you know pretty much the come to jesus calls when we had like i'm like this is stupid but at the same time there was numerous conversations almost immediately from the beginning when um we just started discussing discussing the finances because you got to remember this like like usually in the representation business when you sign a first round pick you don't commission them on their contract, their agency or the representation you give,

because it's set, it's slotted.

How can you say that you should get paid?

So my whole thing was like, yo,

we're not going to make money for four years on these players that we're signing.

We can't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars

paying their coaches.

Because think about it.

If we're talking about five grand a month,

that's 60 grand.

That's gone.

To someone who can't even really help, he can't close. They can help or they can hurt, but they can't close an agent or a manager or financial person getting a player.
So in my mind, it was like in the beginning, I thought, well. Maybe he's just over eager or into the sports business or he thinks I can be overly successful.
There's a call that I don't know if it got played in the doc. I don't remember.
But between me and Jeff, D'Angelo, where I say to him, who do you think signed the most players last year in the draft? And he guesses. And I said, no, it was me.
I mean, because that year coming off at ASM, we had the most guys in the draft that year. So I'm like, I signed four guys last year.
I almost had to kill myself to do it. So I basically was like, you know, I'm not going to be able to sign 10 guys.
I don't have the bandwidth for it. So mathematically, the numbers didn't make a lot of sense to me.
And I also looked at it like we should be building cash flow so if we do have to do something to acquire a client, we're taking care of them and their family, trade, that kind of stuff. So almost immediately I sensed it.
I never sensed that it was the fbi though i'll be honest yeah um obviously i would have just jumped out of it but but yeah i never sensed that this was the fbi i just thought it was an investor who really didn't understand the economics of the business that he was entering into so there's a moment in the documentary where you're basically like fuck the ncaa and we kind of have the same mindset there's it's a very weird story when you lay it all out and it's like what exactly is the crime to pay a player to go to a college like why is that a crime in the ncaa my standpoint has always been they know what's happening they're going to look the other way because millions of dollars are being made.

Billions of dollars are being made.

From your perspective, is every single NCAA major college basketball team cheating in some form or fashion? I think that if you let's say it's 300 schools, I don't know how many is Division I. I would think, you a good portion um of the schools that are are winning at a high level are doing something and it doesn't necessarily mean that they're they're dropping bags off at someone's house but you've got to get creative man like this is it's a it's a blood sport to get talent and if you think about it think about it from this perspective and this is why i say fuck the ncaa they have these rules in place when common sense would tell anybody if you're being hired and being paid four million dollars a year to coach you better get the top players no one wants to lose that job bro this is a great great gig so so the basic rules of capitalism would have educated all of us to understand if there's a lot of money out here to be made, chances are people are going to do what they can to get it, especially if they're not hurting anyone or especially if they're not stealing.
Nothing here is a crime besides people getting what they're supposed to be getting. You know what I mean? So I don't think that cheating is something that doesn't happen because people feel bad about it or they think that it's an awful thing.
You got to remember, a lot of these basketball coaches were once NCAA players. So think about it.
Why would a coach think it's a bad thing when he's been there before? Right. They know what it is.
So this whole idea that all these things are so terrible and cheating is occurring, I guess the question I would ask is, is something cheating if everyone's doing it? Yeah, we agree. So to me, I didn't say that fucked in subway to be rude or to be a bad person.
It's literally the only organization in the world where they can generate billions and don't have to compensate the talent. I mean, if Jeff Bezos or, you know, one of these Bill Gates, these other billionaires who gets blasted every day when you're using their likeness and you're using their images their images 20 years later and monetizing it that doesn't even make sense yeah i thought it was interesting that what they ended up charging you with was essentially fraud and saying that uh you had defrauded these universities by failing to deliver you know like the promise of an athlete and essentially admitting that the athletes have this huge monetary value to the colleges that they end up playing for.
So like by the standards of the United States government, they kind of are saying that players, their value is more than what, you know, a $20,000 a year scholarship or whatever it might be ends up being, you know, on paper. So like in a weird way, the United States government is saying like the NCAA is fucked up in the way that they're trying to pass off this whole concept of amateurism.
Listen, the government was conflicted across the board because think about it. Like you said, they had to admit that the client, I mean, excuse me, that the talent, the players were assets of the university.

They say that in the court transcripts.

I don't know where you guys are from

but the only way something can be an asset

is if they're purchased.

It has to be a transaction.

Something has to occur.

So it was confusing to me how on one end

you're saying that I defrauded the university because i forced them or excuse me not forced i took away their ability to to make correct decisions how they control their assets that's the crime because they couldn't do a normal fraud charge on me because i didn't make any money i didn didn't take any of the money, all the money. I gave it to the players.
So they, they, they put, you know, created a theory that I, I caused Louisville and the universities to, um, essentially make the wrong decision on how to allocate resources for their assets. So if you say that on one end, you have to acknowledge the fact that the players are worth something like they have to have value.
So if the players have value, how can you say that it's a crime for someone to try to create or monetize that value? Like it literally makes no sense. So the whole thing is backwards, man.
The whole, the whole case to me, again, I'm biased, but it never made sense to me. It still doesn't.
And you're right. There definitely is some conflicting theories.

and that's why I didn't say fuck the Southern District or I didn't say fuck the FBI or fuck a judge or whomever I said fuck the NCAA because all of it goes back to them everything without

without them and those rules the prosecutors can't charge these cases they can't we're not here we're not having a conversation because the doc doesn't even happen so that's the reason why i said fuck them and i still stand by that because they're the true criminals to me they're the true problem um and i hope that the athletes and the parents of athletes realize it and and and understand and try to figure out a way to to make it right for them yeah no i i actually i totally agree with you there because it always struck me as a case that the ncaa is only paying attention because the fbi was you know gotten fbi got involved then the ncaa was like oh my god i't believe this is happening, even though they know it's happening. And they basically are condoning it by looking the other way constantly and incentivizing coaches like you said.
The way the coaches have been incentivized, why wouldn't they try to do everything they can to keep their job and be successful at it? I'm curious on this and just a logistical, like always curious about when the draft happens, you'll see a guy who had maybe like was a top recruit and he'll leave for the draft early and he'll be a second round pick. I've been told that those type of players are actually being abused by the system because they probably are leaving because they have to pay someone back because they took money to go somewhere and they have to pay back some agent or something like that.
So they're basically going to the draft earlier than they should and not continuing their education, quote unquote education. Is that any true? I've never experienced that because think about it from an economical perspective or a businessman perspective.

If you if you funded a family or if you funded a recruit, obviously you want to you want to have an ROI. Right.
So it doesn't really make sense to push your kid out of school if you have money into it and essentially ruin your investment. That makes no sense.

I think some of the times people leave the draft early because they don't have the finances to take care of their family and themselves. You got to remember, agents aren't paying these players hundreds of thousands of dollars a month or some crate.
We're talking about 500 bucks. We're talking talking about a thousand dollars, two grand.
This ain't real money. This is just, they're getting their necessities met.
They're not getting anything to splurge with for the most part. So I think most of the time it's just that they may not necessarily have the finances that they're comfortable with.
And sometimes, man, people's, you gotta remember, everyone's getting feedback from scouts and representatives there was a time where um for instance the player uh fred van vliet he had to make a decision between going back to school and and and going to the draft but in his dynamic like his his draft stock his value was what it was It wasn't going to improve another year of school.

So some kids just say, whatever, if I'm going to be a second-round pick next year, that's what they're projecting me as, and I might as well come out of school because really what are you – you're just wasting a year to possibly be injured, lose even more value, and at that point you're not even going to make it to the NBA yeah so I don't it's much it's much deeper and it's it's a lot more information that players have at their disposal when their representatives have their have at their disposal to make those kind of decisions I don't think people are making them because they took you know three grand from an agent who really has no what is the agent going to do like he can go tell he can't tell nobody. So the players have all the leverage at that point.
I don't think they're making decisions because some agent has paid a light bill or paid for someone to get to a game. Right.
So your line of business was just develop those relationship with players, keep in touch with them while they're in college, and then hope that once they start getting paid, that they'll come back to you and do business with you. But there was never any, like you can't write a contract to say that, obviously, because it's against all sorts of rules.
So you're just hoping that once they make it to the NBA, they're like, okay, Christian's been with me for the last couple of years. I know him.
He knows my family. We trust him.
So now we're going to do business with him, right? Correct. Because if you think about it in theory, if I'm getting you paid before you've been a professional, you don't have to question one, if I'll work hard for you.
And two, if I can get you paid, the proof is already there. So, so I almost sometimes in an agent business or people who represent talent, when they're trying to steal a client or get a client,

the line is to become their agent before you're their agent. So you almost start to represent them and you start to do things and you start to do deals because how else can you really show your value if you don't actually do it? You're just talking.
So my theory was if I get in with these guys when they're young i can i can essentially act as their representative to sneaker companies to universities to whomever and hopefully provide some kind of value provide information to to to point them in the right direction so they can obviously play well and make it and hopefully even maybe get them compensated so their time in college can be as stress-free and as smooth as possible. That was my plan.
And like you said, if they turn pro, if they're actually a pro, I'll probably have a good chance to get them because if you get in early, you're able to show your value, chances are they're going to stay with you. I mean, it's not that many guys that's going to the league every year, 30 guaranteed players.
So we're all going after the same players. It's a bunch of competition.
You have to do something to separate yourself from the pack, from everybody else, from the pack. So that was my thinking of how to do it.
Obviously, it didn't fully work because of the case and everything like that, but that was my plan and my strategy. Okay, so going off of that, how good were you at, like, picking out a guy in middle school, high school, and being like, that guy is destined for something? Like, did you know, you know, the story, the documentary starts, you grew up in the same town as Draymond Green.
Like, did you know Draymond Green was going to be an NBA player at an early age? Do you know, what was your hit rate, so to speak, of guys you would look at and be like, okay, this is someone I want to help out. This is someone that I hopefully someday become their agent.
So you asked the loaded question because my basketball evaluation skills are something that's very personal and dear to me. Of course, I think that I had a great eye.
I did not know Draymond Green was going to be our first bad Hall of Famer. I will not lie to you.
But you remember, Draymond kind of changed the NBA too too so none of us would have thought that he was going to be who he was because the league wasn't the league wasn't like he made the league how it is today if you really think about it um he kind of created his own lane but most of the time i was usually on the money um you know i started seeing malik beasley play when he was, you know, Kobe Simmons at the time was supposed to be the best player on his team. You know, Fred VanVleet was undrafted.
You know, Justin Paddy, when I signed him, when I first started recruiting him, no one knew who he was. He had come out from a redshirt year at Creighton.
I mean, most of the people I had wasn't, you know, well-known like that in the beginning. Even when I was doing AAU at 17, 18, Kyle Kuzma, if you look at the doc closely, Kyle Kuzma's in the back of, on that Dorian's Pride team.
He wasn't, he was not NBA all-star, potentially, Cal Puzma at that time. I mean, Josh Jackson was on that team.
I knew he was the best player in the country when he was 16. So it just depends on the player and the situation and everything like that.
No one's perfect, but I think I had a pretty good eye. And basketball is the one sport where you can kind of guess pretty accurately football you can't do this because you don't know but basketball you kind of can can have a more of an educated guess and that's what what I was doing and I think I had a pretty good eye for it one of my favorite parts of the documentary is when it talks about the uh the recruiting service that you created back when you were in I think high school, and you listed yourself as being four inches taller than you really were.
I mean, welcome to the club. That's my life in a nutshell.
Did you ever list anybody that you didn't like on a personal level as being shorter, smaller, not as good just because you didn't want to get them recruited? That's a great question. That's a yes.
That's a yes. And I'm sick that I didn't do it because I should have used that scouting service as a, scouting service as a mechanism to take down my enemies, but I didn't.
I may relaunch it and list people three inches shorter than they are. That's really funny.
And something that I'm sure annoy them. You should relaunch it and just do a scouting report for Mark Emmer and just list him as 5'2".
No skills. No skills.
That's the whole scouting report. No left hand.
Exactly. I'm sure that Mark would love to hear from Christian Dawkins and hear what his thoughts are right now.
So I should do that and cover Mark Emmerich. That was one mistake that you made.
The other mistake that I thought you made in the documentary was you trusted somebody named Marty Blazer. And that's, that should be a red flag right there that the guy's name is Marty blazer he's got like a macklemore haircut uh he this guy is the guy that started the entire investigation against you have you been in touch with him since the shit hit the fan i wish i could be in touch with marty blazer if i was i probably really would be in prison right now um i want to correct you i never trusted him he was smart because he did get to the person that i did trust um but but he definitely was a red flag from the beginning for me um but i it was pitched to me that he wouldn't be involved and he would he wouldn't be around that's why when you see him in vegas i my tone becomes irritated because i was pissed that he was even there um but no marty marty definitely caused a lot of uh i don't even know the word for what he caused um and it's kind of crazy to me that he was even able to kind of start his own mini investigation after stealing millions of dollars.

I don't know how he was, how he pulled that off.

But no, I haven't talked to him.

I have no reason to talk to him. If Marty Blazer, you know, if I never speak to him again, I won't be upset at all.

Did you ever see the movie Mafia that he made? Because the doc glossed over that and it looks like it's fucking sweet. I think the Mafia movie looks awful.
So again, I'll disagree with you. Is that Ving Rhames, like with blood on his hands, being like, I'm in the Mafia? Ving Rhames is actually my guy.
I love him. I want to know who represents Ving, because maybe I should be repping Ving Reigns, because who the fuck allowed him to be in that movie? But no, I didn't see the film.
I don't know if anyone's seen the film. I guess that's another thing we should probably find out.
Is that film out in the world? Can we find that movie? We might have to review it. We find it we gotta find it we do yeah um so christian i had one last question and it is uh what the future is for you because clearly you're talented at this and i don't know if there's a still this exists or like you would be too you know you can't really be under the radar anymore so to speak so what like after everything ha you know settles let's say that you win your appeal does christian dawkins find his way back into the agent world this kind of uh gray area that the ncaa has created where where do you go um well first and foremost i want to i want to do as much as I possibly can to share my story and through our foundation, try to get the NCAA rules changed.
That was part of the reason I did the documentary, just to kind of expose what the byproducts can be, you know, what the NCAA rules can cause, basically. um so so that that'll be my most important priority is through our foundation trying to get those rules changed.
As far as me being back in the representation business, I manage artists and stuff like that now. If I'm going to be involved in the athlete business, it would have to be with agents who are who are certified and, and I'm overseeing, I don't have the time anymore to be as day to day as I was, um, a couple of years ago.
Um, so, so, so I have multiple businesses now we're, we're successful. God, God's blessed us through this COVID thing that we still have money coming in and everything like that.
But as far as me with the management thing, that would be people I'm just overseeing managers at this point. I can't.
I don't have the time day to day because like you said, I'm not really under the radar anymore. So, yeah, my plans is just to continue, you know, everything that I'm doing now on the label side.
We have the joint venture at Atlantic. We have a management company.
We have a publishing company. Obviously, you know, we had the first, the scheme was the first project from the TV and film side, but there'll be other announcements soon in the entertainment space.
I, probably the only thing that I can say right now. Okay.
My last question is, uh, how much money is coach K paying you to not throw him under the bus during this whole investigation? Listen, man, I, I, I wish coach K would, would, would do something for me. I have got nothing Duke.
I would not let that be in the universe. Damn.
Coach K is just a great, great person. He's a great coach.
You're cutting out again, Christian. Can't hear you, dude.
So it's a good amount. That's hilarious.
That's hilarious. Real quick, do a lot of these programs use, like, Bitcoin and cryptocurrency to get away with funneling some of this money? I will tell you this.
They should. If we use that, we wouldn't have been in this dynamic right now.
That's the new – that is – it's funny that you say that because – and you're joking, but, like, if the rules don't change, there's going to have to be a way that the players and the families can continue to get what they're supposed to get. It has to happen.
So it wouldn't surprise me if that's the move in the next couple of years if nothing changes. I honestly don't know when I'm joking anymore.
I think I was serious when I said that, actually.

Because it's untraceable.

No, I mean,

I think honestly,

listen,

if the NCAA rules don't change,

something is going to be

the new thing

because,

again,

that's how it works.

It has to happen.

It's the cost of doing business.

What are the specific bylaws

and rules that your foundation

is trying to get changed right now?

I just want, I just want, listen, the whole idea that everyone's going to get a salary and the players are all going to make money is probably not accurate. But I do think just the basic human right of being able to monetize your image, likeness, and name is is attainable for athletes.
And that, that is the thing I think is most realistic. And I want to focus on.
So, so there's conversations being had now with politicians and, and people that can actually change these laws. Um, obviously you've seen stuff at the state level, like in California, Florida, that's already taking place.
So, so the momentum is in the right direction. I think that our, our focus now is just going to be on solidifying and finalizing what the actual fine print will say.
Cause that's something that's going to be hugely important for all athletes moving forward. Okay.
Awesome. Well, thank you very much, Christian.
We appreciate it. Everyone go watch The Scheme on HBO.
Christian Dawkins, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time, man.
I appreciate you too, boss. Thanks, man.
Good luck. Thank you both.
Love you guys. I'm talking away.
I don't know what I'm to say. I say anyway.
Today's another day to find you Shining away I'll be coming for your lover Take on me Take me on I'll be gone And after I'll take Needless to say I'm all set in But I'm pleased A little way

Though we learn

That life is okay

Say out to me

It's no better

To be safe than sorry

Take on me

Take me

Take me

Take me

Take me

We'll be gone When I do a treat Cause things that you say They're raising a lot for me Just to stay my memories away You are the things I've got to remember You shine away I'll be coming for you anyway Take on me Take me out I'll be gone

In a day It's Pardon My Take presented by Barstool Sports.