Myles Garrett Tried To Kill Mason Rudolph, Rick Ankiel, We Pranked Florio, Week 11 Picks

Hey, Pardon My Take listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.
On today's Pardon My Take, we have Rick Aynkeel. Awesome interview with him.
We have Mike Florio. We pranked his ass real good.
And oh yeah, there was a huge fight on a football field. And holy shit, Miles Garrett, you lost your mind.
You're going to be suspended for the rest of the season. Just a little news there.
Holy fuck. Glad we stayed up for this one.
We stayed up, so we're going to recap it all. We have the week 11 preview, our bets.
We have Firefest. We have Fantasy Fuckboys.
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Okay, let's go. Boys!

Boys! Now in the street there is violence And then a lot of stuff Work to be done No place to hang A long wash in And then I can't blame All on the sun Oh no We're gonna rock it down to Electric Avenue And then we'll take it higher Oh we're gonna rock it down to Dealing, shake, garbage And then we'll take it higher Welcome to Pardon My Take Presented by the Cash App Go download it right now Use code BARSTOL You get $10 free And $10 to ASPCA Today is Fri-yay, November 15th And holy Myles Garrett almost killed Mason Rudolph. All hell broke loose at the end of the Steelers-Browns game.
Now this is the only game I've ever seen a team win that they actually lost. They lost because the Browns have their biggest win of the season.
They're back in it. They feel good.
They beat an arch rival. And then and then oh yeah they lost their best player probably for the rest of the season because he went absolutely insane and tried to smash Mason Rudolph skull in with his own helmet with Mason Rudolph's own helmet can I just say and I don't want to make this about us or you actually had the Browns but I think that everyone should be refunded who had the Steelers because I wanted to start this show by saying Mason Rudolph has a huge fucking face and is a terrible quarterback and is not the guy in uh in Pittsburgh and he's the classic quarterback where every time he drops back if you're a Steelers fan or you bet on the Steelers you're like oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck only bad things can happen but I can't say any of that stuff because he almost died because he got hit in the head with his own helmet robbed me now here's the thing I was gonna I was prepared to say something similar I was going to say I'm not gonna say it now but I don't say it but say no no I was gonna say I'm not gonna say Mason Rudolph is, at best, a perfectly average quarterback under the best conditions possible.
So, like, if he was playing in a dome when it's 70 degrees and all his relatives make up the entire stance, it's only his relatives watching. He's playing against Baylor's defense, against the Big 12 defense.
He can be a perfectly average quarterback, but I can't say any of that right now. What I will say is unpopular opinion.
You shouldn't be allowed to take another player's helmet off and try to kill him with it. Yeah.
Maybe that makes me soft. Maybe I'm a snowflake.
Pussification of the NFL. But actually, Roger McDowell is probably going to throw the rule book at him because he made illegal contact with Mason Rudolph's helmet yeah not the part about him hitting in the head with it and Mason Rudolph by the way is coming off a brutal concussion like a month ago the whole thing was insane we actually were ready we're about to tape and in my gambling degeneracy I had bet the Browns second half was like hey can we watch the end of this game? I want to make sure that I win this.
And then all hell broke loose. And it was absolutely insane.
So if you didn't watch, if you fell asleep early, go watch the highlight, but we'll explain the highlights. I'm sure a lot of Browns fans turned the game off.
Yeah, they might have. So it was third and, I don't know, 25 or whatever.
There's no time left. There's maybe eight seconds left.
And Mason uh drops back to pass gets hit by Miles Garrett now Mason Rudolph did sort of push Miles Garrett in the face no he tried to take Miles Garrett's helmet off so he definitely provoked it and Miles Garrett then ripped Mason Rudolph's helmet off and I think if it had stopped right there it would have been a oh that was not nice like that wasn't good guys that's AFC North football yeah like alright well maybe maybe a fine maybe each everyone gets a $15,000 fine but no it did not stop there because then Miles Garrett took Mason Rudolph's helmet and smashed Mason Rudolph over the head like full contact now to his credit yeah he hit him with the open side of the helmet down safety so he could say like he was trying to he was concerned for Mason Rudolph's health said hey man it's not safe to be out here without your helmet on let me very aggressively put it back on get it back on your head yeah and then Pouncey then Pouncey happened Mike shout out Mike pouncey mike pouncey the pouncey brothers they have to be the most ride or die guys in the world because let's just go back in time here the pouncey brothers after i think aaron hernandez was in jail already convicted felon murderer they were like wearing free aaron hernandez hats at the club like they stuck with their guy a little too late a little too far so pouncey just goes insane on miles garrett hits him kicks him which by the way hitting a guy with a helmet on is always just a really stupid thing but that pouncey again credit to him for being ride or die i actually think that pouncey could injure somebody by punching them in the face mask. I think that's within his skill set.
He shouldn't be suspended, by the way, because I feel like he should just be like, hey, that was ride or die, and also he shouldn't be suspended because if we're looking out for Mason Rudolph's head and concussions, we can't let that offensive line get worse. Also, if I'm Roger Goodell, I don't want to suspend Pouncey because then I have to deal with the Pouncey brothers at that point, and then I'm not safe.
Correct. So, yeah, I'm willing to overlook Pouncey's aggression in this because he had his guys back.
Miles Garrett probably gone. I would imagine he's gone for the rest of the year.
You could make the argument this was attempted murder. So there's six games left on the schedule, so now the Browns are, what, four and six? Yep.
We looked it up. Albert Hainsworth is the closest corollary here.
He got suspended five games for stomping on Gerard's head and making him bleed. Sue, who, by the way, Nagamata Sue, is off the hook as dirtiest guy in the league immediately.
Yep. He got suspended two games for stomping on a packer so i think this is going to be six and it's like a perfect all right you're suspended for the rest of the year so like we said at the top the browns won and now they're basically their season's over because they just lost their best player on defense there are definitely some cleveland brown fans that went to sleep with a win that are going to wake up tomorrow morning and somehow have lost overnight

after a big win.

So Brown.

And here's a fun little stat.

This was the first time that the Browns have ever beaten Pittsburgh

and Baltimore in the same season.

Wow.

In the history of the Browns.

The new Browns.

Well, yeah.

No, no.

No, no.

Yeah.

Ever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Holy shit.
These are my guys. It was, it's insane.
I don't know what you do as a Browns fan because you actually did just finally get a convincing win. And again, we're not going to bash Mason Rudolph because Miles Garrett already did that for us.
But Mason Rudolph is a very bad quarterback. If we were to bash him, we'd say you threw four interceptions.
You look like a joke out there. Duck should be starting and your face is too big.
But again, not going to bash him. And again, not to not pile on him.
But I also think that if I was coaching that Browns defense on that final series, I say no matter what you do do not hurt Mason Rudolph because we get to play him again in two weeks two weeks which is awesome yeah flex that game yeah flex it to to another Thursday night I don't know please do this feels like a nice nightcap for a Thursday night game is a brawl yeah I'm gonna be disappointed for in every single Thursday night football game that ends without an all- fight. Do you think that the size, now I don't want to do the Stephen A.
Smith, we have to ask the provocation, but do you think the size, the sheer size of Mason Rudolph's head had anything to do with it? Because that's a big target to hit. No, yeah.
I think that we might have to consider that. Absolutely.
The gravity pull, the gravitational pull of his fucking huge ass head. Right.
It's like a planet. Miles Garrett's hand was drawn into the face mask, and then he got stuck on the face mask, and he tried to take his hand off because you shouldn't be doing that to a quarterback.
Then he tried to put it back on, but he couldn't get rid of the helmet because it was stuck to his hand. Unbelievable.
I mean, and the game kind of sucked, to be honest. It was terrible.
It was pretty bad was pretty bad. Am I not allowed to say how bad Mason Rudolph was? Because he was absolutely...
No, you can't. No, you can't.
But you can say that if this hadn't happened, what you would have said. I don't even know what happened even affects it because he was that bad.
No, Hank, don't do that. We don't do that.
We don't do that. Hank, he could have been severely injured, so we don't say that.
If we were able to speak freely about Mason Rudolph, I would agree with you he's a fucking terrible quarterback, but we're not going to do that. Okay? He was attacked.
He was assaulted. Are you going to blame an assault victim? He's an assault victim.
He was trying to pull Garrett's helmet off. There you go, Hank.
There you go, Hank. I think...
This is going to be, by the way, Brown...

I can't wait.

And I'm not even going to be mad at it because this is just what sports fandom does to you.

There will be a large push of Browns fans tomorrow getting in everyone's mentions being

like, that was Mason Rudolph's fault.

We're going to get some freeze frames.

We're going to get some stills.

We're going to get some Photoshop's done with arrows.

Actually, it's probably just going to be screenshots people take from their phone and then attaching

that little emoji sticker with the blue arrow pointing.

Thank you. We're going to get some stills.
We're going to get some Photoshop's done with arrows. Actually, it's probably just going to be screenshots people take from their phone and then attaching that little emoji sticker with the blue arrow.
Yes. See his hands on his helmet.
I think what should happen in Cleveland, the judge who is adjudicating the guy that tried to punch Miles Garrett in the face in traffic, let that guy off. That guy should go free.
Who knows? Maybe that guy was from the future, and he was coming back trying to save mason rudolph by terminator yeah exactly so we don't know i say let that guy go the um so the other thing we should talk about here is the browns have solved their red zone offense which has been completely buried by the fact that mason rudolph was terrible and then got it assaulted uh but they were awesome in the red. They seem to have figured out how to use their offense against a good Steelers defense.
Although, again, Mason Rudolph turned the ball over like a million times, so it didn't really help their defense. But the Browns, it wasn't even a question they were going to be able to score from the red zone.
I don't know what happened. I don't think their play calling was that great throughout the game.
They they finally used to sneak they punted a lot their their play calling when they weren't in the red zone i think was pretty bad yeah like the guy that drafted johnny manziel got demoted from general manager to offensive coordinator or whatever yeah they were they were unimaginative for the most part but they won they were going to get out of there with a win swagger junior is two is 2-0. Yes, Swagger Jr.
As mascot. SJ.

You know what? This was a revenge game for Swagger Jr. against Michael Vick's last team.
So a little bad blood was boiling over even before kickoff. So, Joe Buck.
Credit to Joe Buck. We have finally, it's been 15, 16, I don't even know how many years.
We are finally able to move on. He said this is the ugliest thing he's ever seen take place on a football field.
So Randy Moss doing a fake mooning in Lambeau. You are officially off the hook because Joe Buck has a new thing that he's disgusted by.
And actually, Joe Buck's a good friend of ours. It works here.
Yes. Like, that call works here.
It just makes it look how ridiculous it was that he said that about Randy Moss doing a fake moon. But this was probably the most, like, we all were just kind of sitting here like, are you serious? This is really happening? Holy shit.
It was crazy. It was crazy.
It was really bad. And the thing is, the Browns could have put themselves in a position to win another five games going down the stretch.
Soft schedule. And then we would have gotten an entire offseason of Brown Super Bowl hype again, which would have been a lot of fun to deal with.
Does it matter if Mason Rudolph passes concussion protocol? What do you mean? If he's okay? If he's okay, you think there's no suspension? No, not no suspension, but I feel like it makes it less of a... Hank is firmly on Miles Garrett's side.
Listen, I'm with Hank that if this hadn't happened, this would have been a Bash Mason Rudolph podcast all the way through. I had a whole list of things that I was going to say about how terrible he is, but we can't do it, Hank.
But you didn't say it, yeah. We cannot do it.
He really does remind me, as someone who's watched a lot of quarterbacks play for both the Bears and the Wisconsin Badgers, when you have that quarterback who every time he drops back, nothing but bad things can happen, it's the worst feeling in the world. It's bad, but you know what? I like that feeling compared to a quarterback that doesn't make you feel anything.
That's worse. Yeah, but Johnny Hucker, he looks like Johnny Hecker when he throws.
Like, the interception that he threw. You know what it is? The Rams last week.
That was Mason Rudolph every time he dropped in. You know what it is? He wears number two.
No good players. True.
Matt Ryan is the best player you can probably name that's ever worn number two. It's not a good number to wear.
The, yeah, I mean, it's, I guess he's got a, what what are the better what are the better number twos or sorry what are the better quarterbacks quarterback numbers that they should be wearing uh five seven five yes seven eight eleven twelve twelve ten ten's a good ten's a quarterback number it's really good. 10 God.
6. Uh-huh.
6. Anything but 2.
Yeah, anything except for 2. I can't think of a good quarterback.
Seriously, Matt Ryan is the only one that comes to my head. He's the number 2 king.
But, yeah, Mason Rudolph. We're not going to say anything bad.
No, of course not. I'm glad he's okay.
I'll say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jamarcus Russell was too. Great quarterback.
I think Jason Campbell wore too. No.
For the Bears, I think he might have. Oh, at the end? Yeah.
When he was good? When he had that one game in San Francisco. He actually, to tie everything together, he had the game that spawned Colin Kaepernick.
Okay. That Monday night game was Colin Kaepernick's coming out party when Jason Campbell played the worst quarterback game of all time.
Okay, yeah. It was – what an ending to that game.
I feel like I've been in a fight. Watching a fight does that to me sometimes.
I know. I feel jacked up.
And it's – you know what the worst part about it is? It's burying the big news of the night. Carmel Anthony's back.
Yeah, hoodie season is back. Trailblazers, did you see Doug Gottlieb had a really great tweet? It was the Portland Trailblazers.

Portland Trailblazers.

No, Portland.

Portland.

I don't get it.

He took out the D.

Okay.

I like that.

Yeah.

All right, Doug.

All right, Ugg.

Oh, you got it, dude.

That's solid.

Oh, man. But yeah, Carmelo is, I hope he sticks around because it seems like that contract is basically like, hey, we're going to let you hang out for a week.
And then when you demand to play 30 minutes and get like 15 shots, we're going to cut you. Well, once he sees Dame start jacking up threes from like 30 feet, Carmelo is going to get in on the action too.
He's going to be like, that looks like a lot of fun. But also Dwight Howard, like he's basically on the Dwight Howard contract, and I feel like that will help him where it's like, if Dwight can do it with the Lakers, he's with LeBron.
I have to do it with the Blazers. Otherwise, I'm going to get shit.
I need a... And he's been begging to come back.
He hasn't played 300 days. Yeah, I need a playoff series where the Portland Trail Blazers play against the Lakers, and Carmelo demands that he D's up LeBron.
That's what I need. That'll be great.
That's what I need. Now, is Melo, I don't want to get into the conspiracies, but he's pretty good friends with LeBron James, right? Yeah.
So he probably will want to D up LeBron and let LeBron score. Yeah.
Get a little bit of that space jam money on the side. And a little sheesh after the game.
There's good wine in Portland. There's really good wine.
What else is there up there? Weed. Weed.
Food trucks. Hipsters.
Carmelo's definitely going to own a food truck. Hoodie goodies.
Oh, it would be sick if Carmelo, like, to ingratiate himself, got, like, a super deep hoop earring, you know, the barista kind, where it's, like it makes your earlobe all all weird i'm actually thinking his entire career carmelo's been a hipster yeah he he dropped out of college went to go chill in denver for a while got real high tried to go to new york because that's where all the arts and stuff are having didn't work out there didn't make it in new york so he leaves he owns owns a bunch of really obscure records. His greatest accomplishments all happened when he was traveling abroad.

Yeah, that's right.

Hmm.

Yep.

Those Olympic gold medals.

So it's hipster Carmelo.

He's going to get a bike.

No, he's going to get a unicycle.

Yeah, he's going to learn to juggle.

He's going to do slacklining.

Yeah, he's going to do it all.

He's going to get some carabiners, belay on.

Yeah.

Blay off.

He'll be right back. Yeah, he's going to learn to juggle.
He's going to do slacklining. Yeah, he's going to do it all.

He's going to get some carabiners, belay on, belay off.

He'll definitely forget to belay on, belay off in his fucking fall.

All right, let's do our weekend preview. We have week 11 of the NFL.

We have week 12 of college football.

I wish they would just make that the same.

It's not, though, because it's week zero to begin, right? No, but they? No but they're always week one. They're two ahead.
Week zero is two ahead. Either way because there was no year zero.
Right. Got it.
Screws it up. It just messes us small brains.
We can't figure this out. So week 11 of the NFL we're brought to you by BetMGM PMT's home for sports betting this year.
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Oh, you have a pick.

I do.

Oh.

This pick is a type of car.

Jaguar.

No.

Good guess, though.

Good guess, though.

That would have been... It's not the...

Colts.

Nope.

Bronco.

Nope.

Ooh, good guess.

Good guess, though.

Good guess, though.

Ram.

It's the name of...

Yep.

Rams.

Okay. How many other teams are named after...
I don't know. A know.
We had a lot there. I could have kept going.
Fuck. All right.
So Larry has the Rams. You've got to go to BetMGM right now.
You put in that promo code PMT, and you can get a deposit match of up to $250. Bet it on the Rams.
The Chargers would be another one. Yeah.
How about that? Dep free bets must be 21 or older must be in new jersey to place bets restrictions apply visit betmgm.com for the full list of terms and conditions gambling problem call 1-800 gambler go right now betmgm uh right now if you're in new jersey it's the best app to have and here's's my can't-lose parlay. You ready? I'm ready.

It lost.

It's won one of the... Actually, the juiciest part of it

won. The Steelers won outright.

That was a risky one. The Saints,

forget about it.

Bills? The Bills are playing

the Dolphins. Bills money line.

Panthers are playing

the Falcons. At home, the Panthers are playing the Falcons.
No way the Panthers lose two in a row. It's not happening.
And no way the Falcons win two in a row. Right.
Dan Quinn already saved his job last week. Correct.
And then finally, the Raiders playing against the Bengals. That one is just put it...
Listen, I set it up so you have the 1 o'clock, maybe you sweat a little. The four o'clock Raiders, just watch your money grow.
It is plus 135 regularly. BetMGM has boosted it to plus 170.
That's the can't lose parlay. It cannot lose.
I'm going to win this one. Let me ask you.
I'm going to take the reverse parlay of that. You can go fuck yourself.
Just fade them. Complete fade.
Big Cat, what's your policy on when you're engineering your parlay, when you're sourcing your teams?

Do you like to spread them out and go early, late, and then night game?

Oh, yeah.

I like that, too.

Oh, yeah.

If you can keep yourself alive for as long as possible,

then your chances are greater.

I like to do even one more PFT.

I like to go – usually I'll go Saturday, Sunday,

like a four-team parlay stretching all the time zones just so that I can –

just so that I can just watch it and feel good about it and be like,

Thank you. Usually I'll go Saturday, Sunday, like a four-team parlay stretching all the time zones just so that I can just watch it and feel good about it and be like, all right, here we go.
I got this waiting for me later on. Do you ever really fuck around with things and do a Thursday night game? Early Sunday, late Sunday, Sunday night, and Monday night? Yeah, I'll get crazy.
I'll do anything. So that's my can't-lose parlay, can't-lose weekend preview.
we should start with uh not to brag but we called it because adam gaze is safe he's safe and sound and we did call it they're not gonna fire him because we said it was the pat shirmer versus adam gaze game was literally for their job and also the fact that sam donald said we can run the table i think that helped adam gaze too because now even the johnsons are like we might run the table. Can't fire him now.
Seems interesting. I have an easy

schedule. Yeah, I use the playoff machine

which by the way is back on ESPN. The playoff

machine is back. You can do all

the simulations. There's still a MetLife

Super Bowl in play. We could get

Giants jets if everybody runs

the table. That would be two tables.

No, that would be too much. That would be too

much. Where's the oh no, the Dolphins aren't going to have a home Super bowl game i had a dream no they could they're still in it what the hell where was it the dolphins absolutely could make the super bowl mathematically okay according to science john gruden and mark davis the first year in vegas oh that might have been that would be i really did have this dream and i can't remember team it was, but I dreamt that there was a home Super Bowl win.
That's very weird. And it was a future Super Bowl, so it must have been either that.
Vegas. Tampa Bay, probably not.
Cardinals, maybe. Saints.
Maybe Cardinals. Saints, yes.
Maybe that's what it was because the Saints are having a Super Bowl in like four years or something. That would be amazing.
Also, LSU, I think the national championship game, that's in New Orleans, isn't it? That might have been it. That would be.
I think we should go to that. This was the fun segment of trying to figure out my dream that I can't remember.
Because talking about dreams is so fun. How about we talk about dreams that we can't remember? I think it goes.
Yeah, it goes in order of things that other people want to hear about. First is your dreams that you had.
Second is your fantasy team. Yes.
Yeah, and then third is dreams that you can't remember that everyone tries to figure out. Yep.
All right. We have a loser leaves town game.
It is a Sunday night game. The loser of the Rams-Bears, I think, is out of the playoff picture.
Wouldn't you say? I would agree with that. I would say it's donezo.
But you talked yourself into it. You think that the Bears have a chance well the portal is open the time portal is open for me and the offense i mean the rams offense recently hasn't looked much better than the bears offense i think it's going to be a very ugly game i think both offensive lines kind of stink both defensive lines are good so it's going to be one of those games that like third and longs a lot of incompletionsions, a lot of punts, maybe some, you know, maybe the under, maybe that's a preview for my pick.
I'm a little bit concerned about the Rams quarterback situation. When you have two studs like Blake portals and Jared golf, and you're throwing passes with Hecker, your punter.
Yeah. Give me a break.
That's true. Let the boys that can air it out, air it out.
So yeah, that game is officially a loser leaves town game because the loser really does. Like, that's it.
That's it for the season. The Rams would go to, what, 5-5, and the Bears would go to 4-6.
I feel like it's going to be tough, especially considering how the Seahawks and Vikings have been playing for those other two spots in the wild card. Where's the game? It's in L.A.
In L.A. Okay.
Not Bear Weather. Not Bear Weather.
Well, I don't know.

Maybe there's a wildfire going on.

Well, yeah.

Would that be Bear Weather?

Smoky the Bear Weather.

Smoky Bear Weather.

Yes.

I think for Carolina this weekend, I have them.

They're the single part of a loser leaves town,

so it's a can't lose game for Carolina.

Okay.

I think if they lose this game to the Falcons, their season's done. I like that.
Yeah, we might put the Dunn chain on them twice. A little fun stat here, it's Matty Ice's first outdoor game this year.
It's the Falcons' first outdoor game. Uh-oh.
So I'm betting on the Panthers this weekend. Yeah, I like that.
We have a hype train game, the Lamar versus Deshaun game, which is going to be awesome. The Texans are going to baltimore i'm very excited for that i feel like we're going to get at least four to five ridiculous highlights from that game or where we get the gif and it's like oh my god how did they do this just pick a side both guys are going to do it that's going to be a fun game and then i also had one are we sure they're good game which one's that bills at dolphins yeah hear me out hear me out pfts dolphins kind of hot two in a row very hot if they win this game i don't know if we can definitively say are we sure they're good because the opposite of are we sure they're good no they're bad i don't know if we can say they're bad so they might be good that might Are we sure they're good? That might be the worst win in the history of the Miami Dolphins franchise if they win that game.
Right, and then the Bills are on a two-game losing streak. Oh, no, actually, sorry.
They beat the Redskins in between the Eagles and the Browns. Not looking great as of late.
This is a get-right game for them. If they pound the Dolphins, I think we can go back to confidently saying the Bills are not only good, but they'll be in the playoffs.
I think it's also a show-me game. I just came over to it right now.
I like that. It's a show-me game for the Raiders.
Because they're taking on the Bengals. They need to beat the shit out of the Bengals.
If they don't, I'm out on the Raiders. I think the Raiders might make the playoffs.
I mean, they could. I really do.
They could. I'm kind of in on the Raiders making the playoffs because I just think they have enough.
Derek Carr's playing well enough. I actually think Derek Carr's very close to keeping his job in his house next to John Gruden in Las Vegas next year.
So here's why I think Derek Carr's been playing better recently. He grew up in the shadow of David Carr, his older brother.
First overall pick. People forget.
He grew up as like the second fiddle in the Carr household. You're always like the second one to get brought up and had family get together.
So how's David doing? He's really lighting it up in college. He's getting sacked a lot.
Yeah, and how's your son who wears mascara? Yeah, the other kid, the goth one. The goth one, is he into...
Is he still going through that phase? Is he listening to a lot of the Cure still in his room, or what's going on, Derek? Yeah, AJ Soprano. So, with Derek Carr, he grew up in that type of environment.
Him getting together with John Gruden, who consistently negs him and hypes up other quarterbacks around him, I think that's when Derek Carr is at his best, when he's getting overlooked by his own father figure. I agree with your theory.
I'll throw on the practical theory. On top of that, we forgot that John Gruden made Rich Gannon an MVP and playing in the West Coast offense is pretty fucking easy.
I'm going to choose to believe deep-seated childhood towards authority. No, I agree with yours.
But this is like Derek Carr's doing the right things where he doesn't have to throw the ball down the field all that much. He still can.
But he's doing a really good job of hitting the short, medium passes and running the offense well. He's playing very well.
Also, I don't think that the Bengals are going to be ready for him because they've got Andy Dalton running the scout team offense right now. Last week, Andy Dalton simulated Lamar Jackson getting ready for the Ravens.
That was his job was to emulate Lamar Jackson. This is probably more in a skill set.
I think Andy Dalton at his best right now is like Derek Carr with the flu. Yeah.
Or like, I'll put it this way. He's like a mix between all three of the Raiders quarterbacks that they have.
Yes, I'd agree that he's like the perfect combination of Mike Lennon, Nathan Peterman, and Derek Carr. What would their collective name be? It's the shittiest version of that old YouTube video, Does It Blend? Yes.
And they just throw Nathan Peterman, Glennon, and Carr into a blender, and then whoops, pops out Andy Dalton. Derek Thin is what he is.
Yeah. Okay, there we go.
So, yeah. Nate Nate Nate Nate Nate vid Nate Keterman Nate Nate Vic Keterman Nate Vic Keterman I like that okay so that's what that's what Andy Dalton is I I think that the Raiders are going to beat the shed I'll put it this way if the Raiders win by 20 points or more I think playoffoff town.
Yeah. I'm in on playoff town Raiders.

I think, listen, there's going to be one of these teams.

We talked to Warren Sharp about it last week.

One of these teams that is in that 5-4, 6-4, 5-5, wherever it may be,

one of them is going to get hot,

and the Raiders have a pretty easy schedule down the stretch.

It's like them and the Steelers kind of staring at each other

from across the entire nation.

Okay, let's do some picks. Hank, why don't you start with your favorite? Your favorite favorite.
My favorite favorite, I'm going to take the Patriots. Okay, good pick.
Minus three and a half. Minus three and a half.
It is the classic. I think I wouldn't be surprised if they lose, so I'm going to take them because that means they'll probably win by seven plus.
This is a classic game. I would not be shocked at all if they lost this game.
Are you afraid of their uniforms? Are the Eagles wearing all blacks? No, I'm just saying, are you saying that you wouldn't be shocked because you still have flashbacks of the Eagles in those uniforms? Just the Eagles' entire aura, beating the Patriots in the Super Bowl. No, I mean, we beat them in the Super Bowl as well, so it's really that I don't even worry about.
That's just a complete wash in terms of Super Bowls. I'm just focused on this season.
But no. Yeah.
Okay. So I.
And then I'm Nick Foles. Well, here's the thing.
If you want to bet on the Patriots this weekend, it's the perfect case where you can bet it. And then if you lose, say, did you see the numbers of Bill Belichick off a buy or off of a loss? Because it's the perfect storm.
It's off a buy and off a loss, and I think they're like 70% off of each throughout the year. Let alone combined.
Yeah, so you can just say, well, it was the sharp play. It was the right play.
If you look at the numbers, it was the right play. What do you want me to do? Material change.
I also love every underdog again. I have a problem.
Every single one, you're back on your bullshit. I got off, and I was like, it's not going to hit.

And then nine underdogs hit last week, and I was like, which makes it even dumber to get back on.

Yes.

But then I looked at the board, and I'm like, holy fuck.

Underdog city.

A lot of good underdogs.

Let's get all the underdogs.

I think I might do it with you just because I'm so sick of being opposite of you and having to deal with your giggles on Sunday.

That actually sounds kind of fun.

Yeah, we should just do it.

The entire board?

Here are some stats for you.

Ready?

Patriots are 47-9 straight up off a loss since 2003,

40-16 against the spread off of buys, including playoffs.

They are 24-4 straight up, 17-10 against the spread.

Okay, we got to do it then. I mean, those are insane numbers.
So if you just say, I play the numbers, not the team, there you go. And buy the half point.
And buy the half point. Now you're getting crazy with it.
Well, now you're introducing math. If you lose.
I was fine with you talking about numbers, but once you insert math into it, I'm out. If you lose this, now it will count as buying that half point on our very meticulous records we've been keeping all year that we're going to reveal to everyone week 17 understood um pft go ahead my favorite last week what was it my my double platinum lock yeah with the with the saints and the falcons the under on that one hit this week i have a triple enriched plutonium it's radioactive that's how much i like this favorite damn if you want to this one, you can.
$4.99 a month on my Patreon. Saints minus five at Tampa.
Last week for the Saints, I'm chalking that up to an aberration. Okay.
I'm not sure what aberration. A stinker.
It was a stinker. Aberration is French for we lost another war that we should have won.
Every team gets a stinker. Yeah.
That's what you have to pay after you lose a war. Aberration.
Yes. You have to pay aberrations.
A lot of aberrations. So I think the Saints are going to steamroll the Buccaneers.
I really do. The only thing that makes me nervous is the Bucs actually do have one of the best, if not best, run defenses.
But that's just a Drew Brees stack game. Yep.
Because their secondary is terrible. A little added bonus radioactive play for you is to take the over in that game, too.
I like that over.'s a bonus. The Bucs here's a stat for you.
The Bucs this season in their games, the total has been averaging 59.9 points. Oh, I love that.
Yeah, so the over 50 you got room to spare as they say. I actually have that as oh no, I don't have that as my over, but I like that over as well.
My favorite, I'm going to take the Raiders. Minus 11.
They're going to steamroll. That's to be a shit pumping, if you will.
Hank, your underdog. My underdog, I gave you the Falcons money line last week, plus 400.
No, you didn't. Yes, I did.
You did? Yes. Really? Yes.
I don't remember that. You said that on this show.
A hundred million percent. I was like, Falcons money line.
I love the Falcons money line. If that was going to take one, it would be the Falcons money line.
Okay. The problem with this is that Hank could easily go back and insert that into last week's show.
People can tweet at you. I was getting – my tweets were flooded with people thanking me.
Your noties? Okay. Your noties were lit.
RIP. So I feel responsible to give another plus 400 underdog this week, the Broncos.
Okay. Okay.
Off a bye. Brandon Allen? I actually don't mind that one.
All right. All right.
Yeah, Kirk Cousins, he always has to come back down to, you know, regular Kirk Cousins level. He's been playing well.
All right, PFT, your underdog. My underdog is going to be the Jets at the R-Words.
I love it. Yeah, love it.
I loved it at Jets plus one and a half. I love it even more at Jets plus two and a half.
So load up on the New York football Jets. This is absolutely locked.
This is definitely what Jamal Adams. He did it last week against Daniel Jones when he just took the ball out of his hands.
I'd expect him to do that at least twice against Dwayne Haskins this week. Yes, Dwayne Haskins has not proven that he can control the ball, whether it's on his person or in the air yet.
So take them. All right.
I like that. I'm going to take the Texans plus four and a half.
I think that game is going to be close. I think that's going to be one of those instant classic ones that comes down to a field goal and the witching out.
I hope so. Yeah.
That game really needs to be later on in the day. It should have been a four o'clock game.
Yeah. They should have flexed it out of the Sunday.
I really would prefer not to have the Bears on Sunday. A game like that deserves to be like one of four games going same time.
I agree. It should not be lost in the mess early.
Yes. Hank, you're over.
Sunday night, Bears-Rams, absolute slugfest. The quarterbacks will be going back and forth, touchdown after touchdown, lighting it up.
Minimum eight touchdowns combined between the two. Minimum eight touchdowns.
What was the game that you said over? How are the Bears going to score? How many interception returns are the Bears going to score off Johnny? You did this last week where you gave us the special teams, pick six, all these lines for the Bears over last week and it didn't hit. Nope.
Okay. But this isn't special teams.
This is quarterback play. All quarterbacks.
Okay. Lighten it up.
All right. That's my under, by the way, so I'll skip my under when we get to it but i love the under in that game i don't i do not trust either offensive line and i trust both defenses pft you're over my over is very simple eagles patriots same five same easy take it to the bank right now spend that money it's it's payday you just got paid earlier it's the 15th go ahead spend that money because you're going to recoup it on the back end on Sunday when it's probably going to be a 31 to 30 Patriots victory.
Okay. I like that over as well just because it's in that time slot where it's like, hey, it's late on Sunday.
90% of my logic. I would like to just bet it over and just chill out.
Yes. Hank, your under will finish up with that.
Panthers-Falcons. Panthers-Falcons.
Okaycons okay okay you like the under in that one yeah maddie ice yep okay uh my under is broncos at vikings okay i just think i get the feeling that zimmer loves playing low scoring football games when he runs up against another low scoring football team yeah that is the mindset like we're gonna run the ball and play defense right they defense right they they when Vic Fangio and Mike Zimmer meet each other at hat you know at the middle of the field before the game they're like hey we're going to do what we agreed on right like no points today it's a gentleman's agreement we're going to go 12 to nine yeah we're going to end up winning nobody gets embarrassed and then after the game we can just say that's good old school football yeah let's say let's just agree uh no deep throws, all right? Yep, cool. All right, good to see you, coach.
See you later. All right, my under is the Bears-Rams game, which I think is going to go under easily.
Let's do Fantasy Fuck Boys, and then we'll get to Rick Ankele. What's up, boys? It's Brandon fucking Bowling.
Yo, Brandon. My stardom this week is Austin Rivers.
He got teed up. Or no, he told his dad to get teed up.
He said, fuck his dad. Fuck your mother.
Get teed up. He doesn't give a fuck.
He doesn't care that his dad's sperm is the reason he exists. He said, fuck him.
He's starting on my TV. That's right.
Let's go. Oedipus Rex style.
My sit-um is Paul Bissonette. Oh.
I beat him up once. I'll beat him up again.
He's He's chirping my boy Hank on Twitter Fuck him I was wondering if you knew who Brandon Bullock was So good that you do My sleeper is Lions Not Matty P Even though he's pretty good But actual Lions There was a protest in Iraq And they took They had The police had dogs Tell me about geopolitical situations Fucking Lions I don't know about the geopolitics of it, but having lions to go against dogs is fucking gangster. RIP Cecil, my man.
Oh, man, fuck that dentist. Fuck dentist.
Never been, never gonna go. What's up, fuckheads? It's Mike Tirico.
I'm starting shorts. I'm starting shorts this weekend.
You see the story up in Canada. There was a Winnipeg Blue Bombers fan.
He hasn't worn pants in 18 years. He said he wasn't going to do it until they won the Grey Cup.
Well, then it's in my finals, so he should tell those shins. Enjoy the vitamin D while you still can, because I got a feeling the Blue Bombers are going to win a Grey Cup.
Love it. Love the shorts.
Get those tender little calves burned.

Where I'm from, we call that veal.

I'm sitting DK Metcalf.

He's on a bye week.

True.

True.

He's on a bye week.

True.

Sit him.

Last week, I don't know if you saw this guy try to turn.

He looked like an aircraft carrier.

Try to steer himself upfield instead of going out of bounds.

What the hell was going on with that guy?

He can't go sideways.

Popcorn muscles.

My sleeper is weighted blankets. I'm bringing them back.
I brought mine back out. Feels like I'm getting a hug from a burrito.
It's super comfortable. I put it on.
I calm down. I take it nice and easy.
I don't care what's inside of him. It could be any.
It's like eating a Twinkie. Just load me up with all the toxins as long as I feel good afterwards.
Love it. All right, what's up, guys? It's Lorenzo Linguini.
My stardom is Zlatan. He retired from the galaxy or he left the galaxy.
I don't fucking know, but all he said was, you're welcome. You're welcome.
That's my boy. That's how you leave, and that's talking football.
Amen, Enzo. All right, my sit-em is burner accounts.
Everyone just assumes every account on the Internet is a burner account if i have to see another tweet saying hey we found this person's burner account shut the fuck up start a cooler account god used the burner account when that bush was on fire he was just like chirping him he's like hey hey what's the matter with you all right my sleep is mike trout he won his third mvp this this day today and i'm starting to think This guy's pretty good. Who cares? He must be good in the playoffs, right? Are you talking about that guy that's always at the Eagles game on October 22nd? Mike Trout.
Okay. Mike Trout.
Mikey. Mikey Fishes.
Seven Fishes. I'm impressed you did know who Brandon Bull.
I was like, what are you doing? No, I didn't. I literally just searched Paul Busenet fight.
Oh. Yeah, Bullitt kicked his ass.
I should have said Ryan Reeves, though, because he was the one. He dummied him.
What's up with Biz? He's just chirping you? We put up a picture on PMT that was from picture day, and he was like, great picture minus Hank. Oh.
And then he came in with a chirp about my suit like two weeks later with the least unoriginal chirp of all time. I can't believe i'm saying this but i expected something more clever out of paul bison that than just great picture minus hang i mean he's an all-time chirper right he's a locker room guy he keeps the boys loose you'd think that he'd be able to do that you'll have to have him on the show to discuss disappointing this very disappointing uh development here all right catch these hands let's get to our interview with.
Fascinating interview. Fascinating guy.
It's one of those guys that's like, I can't believe this story is real. He was a pitcher.
He had the yips. He then went all the way back down to the bottom of the minor league, retired, and then came all the way back up as a hitter.
Before we do that, though, Simply Safe, a recent Gallup survey shows Americans worry more about burglary than almost any other crime more than mugging more than terrorism more than car theft and murder according to studies just over 10 percent of break-ins are planned beforehand the rest are spur of the moment crimes of opportunity in other words random did you know most break-ins happen between 6 a.m and 6 p.m in the middle of the day according to the FBI, the average loss in a burglary is over $2,000. That can be hard to recover from.
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Okay, we now welcome on a very special guest.

It is former MLB pitcher and outfielder Rick Ankeel. Thank you for joining us.
We appreciate it. You have a book.
It is called The Phenomenon, Pressure, the Yips and the Pitch That Changed My Life. Do we want to start there? I'm sure you get a little a little tired of that right it's okay um i would say sometimes it can get old but because of recently what just happened um brennan todd who won the bermuda event mentioned my book in the interview saying that he read it and helped him because he went through the yips um i think that's fun and just you know being able to go through it with the yips and you know help whether it MLB, alumni, kids, and the career summit that the alumni puts on, I think it all ties in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Before we get into the pitch that did change your life and how you kind of got out of it, the ups and downs that you went through, I got a question about you at your best as a pitcher.

When you were at your best, could you strike out you at your best as a hitter without even with blindfolded probably yeah yeah yeah i could definitely strike me out throw the hammer hammer high fastball uh-huh yeah i was i was reading some stories about um you coming up as a pitcher and i would say that you as a pitcher definitely could strike out you as a hitter because of some of these like like, actually, let's start there because we'll get to the pitch that changed your life. But how about your high school when I was reading your letter to your former self? Did you write that, by the way, or did the Players' Tribune just write it for you? Players' Tribune wrote it.
Did they write it for you? We interview and they write. Sarah Jeter writes it, right? You talk to Derek.
What in Derek? He edits it. Ryan Duffy.
He blogs it. He goes into WordPress.
Ryan Duffy wrote it. You said in that that one day you're going to wake up and you're going to be able to throw 94 and you were able to throw 84 the day before.
Is that actually how it happened? So I grew. Yeah, I was teeny in high school.
And growing up, I was just always the smallest one in my class. And I graduated at 17.
But, you know, over a summer, I grew. So I went from throwing 84 to 94 over a summer.
It was just like. That's crazy.
And you could just feel like, oh, my God, this is actually a thing now. Yeah.
Well, so I was a good pitcher, right? It wasn't great, but I was good. I made my all-star teams.
And when that happened, it was like, whoa. Yeah.
This is real. College is real.
Maybe pros. Who knows? But that's when it started so the the stat that is insane

to even look at you struck out 162 batters in 74 innings in high school that must have been awesome that must have been so holy shit i'm trying to do the math 162 batters that's more than two strikeouts an inning you didn't give up a single run or earned run in regular season that's correct High school.

Yep.

It was incredible.

How sick was that?

It was unbelievable because my junior year was good too, right? So now you have scouts there and it's like everybody there is watching. And what I felt like, every time I had more success, I kept working harder.
And it was like reinforcing that hard work is the way to go. You know what I mean? It just kept making me work harder and it kept getting better.
And it was incredible. Right.
You played on easy mode. He played a video game on easy mode, but in real life.
Was there anyone that you would face in high school that you were even slightly concerned about? You always read. Of course.
Right. So there's always the prospect list.
And when you're high school, you're checking it. You know, I'll never forget like Troy Cameron.
he went to st thomas and that was a huge school back then there was ranked number one in the nation um but anytime you'd play those guys right you're raising it to the next level like there's no way i'm gonna let this guy beat me you know so yeah i mean it must have been i just i can't imagine being able to strike that many people out like just domination yeah were you also a good hitter at the time i was so that's not fair so you were you were just striking everybody out and you were slugging dingers i wasn't as good as a hitter as i was a pitcher but i could hit um and there was a little bit of talk of we'll draft you to do both um the expo for one team that said that but i think that was kind of like a ploy of let's just get him in the system and he's gonna pitch we're gonna back then we're gonna his ego a little bit. We're going to be like, hey, yeah, we can let you do whatever.
All right, here's another stat that's ridiculous. In single A, you went 17.2 consecutive innings without giving up a hit.
So you threw basically two back-to-back no-hitters. Three.
Almost three. Because, you know what, they would put me on a 100-pitch limit.
So it was like five innings, five innings, five innings. And then the two – and the guy who got the hit was Jerry Harrison Jr., who will never let that – never let it go.
It's hilarious. I mean, that must have been a lot of pressure, though, when you get to the third game and you're like, wait, I still haven't given up a hit in three games? You know what, though? I didn't look at it like that.
And the person who held the record before that was Dwight Gooden. And growing up, that was my idol and then i idolized him so i'm like oh my gosh i just beat dog good and record like it was just this empowering moment really of like i'm just gonna keep going you know versus like i'm gonna give up a hit and then the last one i had to bring up about you know coming up as a pitcher i read the story that in uh maybe it was double a that your catcher used to tell the hitters what pitch you were throwing just to try to make it harder for you? Yeah, so I didn't know that until I wrote the book, and his name was Keith McDonald.
They called him Fat Kid, but great guy. But they were like, we need to try to get this kid some adversity, because nobody's hitting him.
I'm still mad about it, to be honest, because I was still trying to put up records. You know what I mean? I was, I don't know, 6-0 or something, and what are you doing, bro? So he would actually say, like, here comes a curveball.
Yeah. He told me.
He's like, yeah, I was telling the guys. And at first they didn't believe me.
And then you would throw it. And he was like, look, dude, we need to get the kids from Versi.
Holy shit. That's incredible.
That's so good. Your own team had to cheat against you.
They were trying. Damn.
So at what point during the three consecutive no-hitters were you like, why don't they just call me up yet like they're wasting all these after the second one um no you know what and back then i was effect i would call it effectively wild i was young and you know the strikeout was glorified back then so i was just trying to throw as hard as i could so it would be a lot of three two counts right not that that's good or bad i still struck you out but when you look at it like that you have to understand too like in the big leagues you might not get the swings on those balls out of the zone as much as you're going to get them down there in a ball so like i understood that okay have you always been a soul patch guy um pretty much i had a little bit down here um and then i had a smaller one my wife's like i like it keep it going so happy wife happy life Soul Patch, I think you, I think the singer of Smash Mouth, he's got one. But yeah, you're like the longest standing ball player that I can think of.
I like it. Tim Hudson, too.
Yeah, that's right. He had one.
It keeps like the late 90s, early 2000s baseball players alive. I like it.
Through the Soul Patch. It does.
You are the soul of those years. It really is.
That was the look. The fighting necklaces, we always talk about.
Did you wear one of those? I had one. I had something similar to it.
I don't remember. It was in 07 because that's when I came back to hit.
And I remember because my wife bought it for me. You know baseball players are superstitious.
You start playing well, it's never coming off. Yes.
That's what happened. There's the copper bracelets.
That's one that they wear. And then there was one postseason I remember when everybody showed up with a fight necklace.

And I thought that there was one medical sales rep that got in real deep with the right people in Major League Baseball.

It just made a killing that one year and then jetted.

No question, right?

Because you would come in and on your seat, there would just be a couple necklaces.

You know, like on your chair.

For free.

In your locker.

If you give me a free necklace, I'm going to put it on at least the first time.

Okay, so let's talk about the transition, your book, the yips and everything.

We are big-time spin zone guys, so we would like to look at it from a different point of view.

The Cardinals won that game, and Greg Maddux lost that game.

Future Hall of Famer at the time lost that game.

People don't talk about that enough.

So the game won 2000 NLDS,

you're up against Greg Maddox.

You pitch the first two innings

fine. Greg Maddox gives up

six runs in the first, which we

should talk about more.

And then he switched his whole game around

in that ESPN commercial because he said

chicks dig the long ball, which you

were also better at. So yeah, you own Greg Maddux.
We remember this game. Well, thank you.
I'll take that. I don't think I own him, but I like it.
What exactly happened in that third inning? Did you know right away? When I lost it? Yeah, did you know right away? No. I bounced a curveball and then let me take that back.
I threw a cutter in that just cut, and it wasn't even that bad of a pitch. And at the time, the entire season, Mike Matheny was my catcher.
He cut his hand. He couldn't catch.
So we brought in Carlos Hernandez, who was just a different catcher. When I would try to throw into righties because I'm left-handed, so I was kind of firing across my body, I'd cut it on accident sometimes.
So sometimes you have this 95-mile-an-hour fastball that cuts when nobody's telling you it's cutting but mathena knew that from catching me but in my mind for whatever reason i'm thinking man i just threw a freaking wild pitch right like my family everybody's watching and usually you shake that crap off and it doesn't even matter all of a sudden i spike a curveball it starts to unravel um i had no idea what was happening everything that i had always used up to that point to get myself back on track wasn't working. Mechanically, mental thoughts, the keys that guys have.
And before I know it, I'm getting taken out of the game. It was like I would try to throw a pitch, and all of a sudden it would launch off the backstrop or bounce something.
And I had no idea what the heck was going on. No clue.
So after that inning, you get pulled after the five wild pitches.

Did you go out later on that day and just be like,

I've got to be past this by now.

The yips are gone.

And throw any more pitches?

Or did you wait until the next day?

Or did you take your standard amount of time, throw after, you know,

two nights sleep?

What was that like?

Well, I remember saying to the media, oh, it was a mechanical issue.

This will never happen again.

I really didn't know what the yips was at that point. Not even sure i knew what the word anxiety meant because i was young everything just came so fast um the next day i came to the field you definitely kind of have a little like all right you know because everybody's watching out of the corner of their eye like what's this gonna look like but i'm playing catch everything's fine i throw a bullpen the next day i was lights out so tony larussa calls me and it's like like, Hey, I don't, I don't think we're going to use you.
You know, like I think we're just going to, I'm so I went, went somewhat ballistic, like bullshit. This is my time.
I want this game, you know, blah, blah, blah. He's like, all right, you sure you're fine? I'm like, yeah, man, I got it.
So I ended up starting the next game against the Mets and, you know, when a few pitches, you know, start spraying it all over. And it was like, it's this anxiety feeling where feeling where you know i could definitely feel more nerves than i ever felt before warming up in the bullpen i remember walking from the bullpen to the to the mound in new york and it was like all right i got this and it's like you throw one pitch and it's kind of close it's fine but then you throw one that's maybe not you know a strike but the catcher can catch it and it's like my mind goes oh no here we go again and then this feeling comes over where it's almost like i couldn't feel the ball and you go to fire it and it's like you have this mini blackout and you're like where'd the ball go wow yeah that's crazy now tony la russa said that that decision to start you game one of the nlds against greg maddox will haunt him forever do you think that it the moment, or do you think this is something that would have happened to you regardless at some point in your career? Yeah, great question.
And I think it's the unanswered question that will never be answered. When I – you know, I didn't go back and watch it for a long time.
I didn't. And recently when I wrote the book, when we did the documentary, I sat down and just really tried to study it.
And, you know, there were some pitches in there that Mike Matheny would have caught. And maybe he would have caught it and I would have been fine.
And then maybe it would have happened next game. Maybe it would have happened five years.
Maybe it would have never happened. I don't know.
But what I do know is it's one of those things that sometimes we don't always know why. And it's what are we going to do about it.
Right. And what are we going to do about it? So now we it right yeah it's it's it must be crazy to watch yourself in that moment when you finally did go back and watch it did it feel like out of body did you or do you did you you know all the memories kind of flash back to you and like oh yeah i remember thinking this was it like i was about to lose it so i was thinking that i was going to get this like pit in my stomach and the first time that i went back and watched it was with the writer tim brown who wrote my book and we sat down because obviously we need to go over and write about it and i thought i was gonna have this whatever and you open the computer and i felt fine i watched it and i and i was actually surprised at how under control i looked on the mound as it was happening in the dugout after they took me out um i was like that's amazing because inside you know yeah my body my brain was going haywire you know you're going on my you know i just let my team down you have all these all those feelings you let the team down your town down your friends down you know all those things that come with that that was just you know that's what i was surprised by that's really interesting so it's like getting out of your head, let you see in the larger perspective that it wasn't as bad to everybody else as it was to you.
You were making it worse by putting all that pressure on yourself in the moment, which I guess is like a natural thing. Yeah.
But then how do you replicate that? How do you tell yourself like in the moment when you're going through something like that, it's not as bad as you feel right now? How do you regulate that anxiety? And I don't know if there's an answer to that. No, I don't know if there is either because the anxiety is such a powerful thing.
And the people who go through the yips, whether it be golf, whatever it may be, I think what some people don't realize is that it consumes you. And especially with athletes, most of these guys or girls are obsessive about that sport and usually you're obsessing over how do i get better what do i do you're thinking about that all day you're in that world so now when you get the yips and you're going down that road now you're obsessing about bad and negative things and like it's taking you down a bad spiral yeah i was always curious uh what what are your teammates doing in a situation like this because you said you know baseball is obviously very superstitious sport i would imagine baseball players thought they could catch the yips from you they thought it was like a cold or something like how what was the support like on a day-to-day basis when you're battling this um you have both uh you have where you have guys putting your arm around you trying to support you hey what can you do and then and then the fear is real because if you know you would have been my teammate back then and known me at the at the time you would have thought this isn't something that would happen to this kid um and i think then the thought becomes real with everyone like this can happen you know this is real so it is a scary thing because you know i say this all the time when you watch hitters they go through the same thing you see a hitter going through a slump and he's over 30.
You could call it the yips. I mean, let's be honest.
They're swinging it. They could have a tennis racket and not hit the ball sometimes.
But it's a reaction. And pitching like golf is an action, right? You create it.
So the hitter, you can kind of mix into the slump. Oh, I had a mechanical thing.
Like, you know, eventually you get a hit. Oh, you relax.
You get out of it. But it's about the minutes are the same thing, and maybe some guys are better at not taking it home with them.
They can leave it at the field. No big deal.
I'll figure it out. It's hitting.
Three for ten is the Hall of Fame. It's different.
But pitching, because of the action, obviously you can't hide and mix in the line. You can go for four.
Maybe you make a good play. You're still a hero.
It doesn't matter. Pitching, you're out there alone.
It's true because five wild pitches would be kind of similar to like five strikeouts. And five strikeouts happen.
You know, guys happen. It doesn't happen often, but it happens.
Whereas five wild pitches, everyone's like, whoa, what's going on? You never talk about a pitching slump. You never use those words.
It's just like, oh, this guy stinks now. You should get sent out.
Yeah, he gets designated. So when you were making your comeback as a hitter, did you find that the fact that you could fail two out of three times and still be successful, was that helpful to you? That's a fantastic question.
Absolutely. Yeah, because it was like a relief.
Like, whew, I go three for ten and I'm fine. I can go 0 for four and I make a diving play and I'm high-fiving because I made the great play of the game.

It's definitely a different dynamic, but it is a different grind on your body.

Mentally, it can get hard also.

Don't get me wrong. But, yeah, because of the pitching thing and then the ability to fail,

like you said, absolutely.

It made it like I got nothing to lose.

So this is just a very simple question,

but, like, I always wonder what I would prefer to be be a pitcher or a hitter just from a chilling out standpoint which one's better for like a chilling out you want to chill you need to pitch but but are you if you're a pitcher in the days that you have off can you truly chill out or are you just thinking about the next day that you have to pitch well i mean you probably got a tea time at pelican hill if you have to be in san diego and then you're showing up and you got your regular shoes on because there's no chance you're going to get in the game and you know yeah so no you can truly chill unless you're one of those maybe you're a guy that they hit the um you know the manager may use you to pitch here right right honey he ain't chilling right um but yeah starting pitching i should say so you can just chill so this would be something right so as a starting pitcher you know i played golf a few days in between if guys were going or whatever um as a position player i tried that but because of the physical demand of playing center field i couldn't play 18 holes and then go out there and play i was tired yeah i couldn't do it what about when you have a bad outing and pitching and then you have to wait five days to play again? That's got to suck versus being in the center field.

You're like, okay, well, if I suck tonight, I have tomorrow.

Less than 24 hours, I'm going to be playing again.

Yeah, it's definitely different.

And like you said, I think that can be the hardest part

is the hours surrounding the competition until your next one

and how you handle that.

And usually veterans on the team will try to help you with that whatever you know you throw your bullpen there's stuff you do um and you're right and as a hitter like you know whatever i got tomorrow right it doesn't matter right when you were making your comeback as a hitter were you pissed off that you weren't allowed to wear that sweet jacket when you got on base because that's the best part about pitchers getting on base tossing on the on the bullpen jacket for like the 30 seconds that they're going to be on first. No, because at this point now I was trying to prove that I was an athlete and I'm trying to steal second or third.
But it's a great point. Why do you wear those jackets? Is it just to keep your shoulder like 10 degrees warmer? Yeah, it's like they're going to keep you warmer now, right? But I feel like recently you don't see it.
No, they've taken them away, which kind of sucks. It does suck.
I used to love that. I'm kind of an expert when it comes to busting through the yips.
And by expert, I mean I interviewed Barry Zito on the show. We interviewed him, what, a month ago? He taught us about transcendental meditation.
Did you ever try any of that? I did not. And I know Barry went through some of the yips and stuff.
And I don't know if you guys got into that, but he went through a little bit of that. What a phenomenal guy.
But no, I haven't, but I have been watching a few podcasts and kind of reading up on that. Yeah, it seems interesting.
That and Ayahuasca are the two things that I know. You go to South America, you drink the tea, you hallucinate and throw up for two days, and then your brain's fine.
Have you done that? I haven't done it. I've watched several documentaries.

You should try because you might be able to pitch 94.

Oh, yeah.

I could brainwash myself into being a great athlete.

Maybe I could brainwash myself into being taller.

Maybe you could bring the Serpa here and you could do it on TV.

Yeah.

I think they do that.

We'll do that for Barstool Gold.

Yes.

Just a live stream of us throwing up for two days and crying in this room

and then coming back and being slightly better at podcasts.

We've done weirder.

Yeah.

That's true.

So I want to talk real quick about the comeback because the comeback's the best part of the story, and it's incredible that you went through all this, and then you became an outfielder in Major League Baseball, like basically reinvented yourself. It starts with Scott Boris, right? So he called you up and was like, hey, let's do this.
And did you have – were you like, all right, fine, I'm in? Or did it take some convincing? So he calls me the day that I retired from pitching. Quit, retire, whatever you want to call it.
I'm at home, and it hasn't been two hours, and I'm getting texts and phone calls. Are you okay? Hey, what's going on? Scott calls, and he goes, hey, are you ready to play? Ready to play what, man? If you're not – like, you're not understanding.
Like, I'm done, man. I just shut it down.
It's over. He's like, no, no.
Go play outfield. I'm like, what are you talking about, Scott? He's like, no, I'm serious.
I'm serious. Do you want to be an outfielder? And it kind of stunned me.
There was a silence. I'm like, hey, man, I don't know, man.
I got to think about this. And I hang up.
Because coming to that decision to stop playing was a huge deal for me. Right.
My entire life. So now I'm in the house, and I'm walking around, and laughing and i'm looking for a bat right find a bat i'm now in my living room taking practice swings and i allow myself to to visualize myself making it back into the big leagues and hitting a home run and this feeling like came over me of like almost like it was happening and i picked up the phone i said heck yeah i'm in he goes and i'm gonna Cardinals.
I'll call you back in five minutes. And in five minutes, my phone rang.
It was actually Walt Jockety of the St. Louis Cardinals, who was the general manager at the time.
He's like, hey, Inc, if you're in on this, we're in. We're behind you 100%.
Show up tomorrow. You're an outfielder.
Shit. I said, all right, man.
I'll see you tomorrow. That's awesome.
And then it all happened. You hit the home run.
You hit a lot of home runs. coming back, was there a moment when you were in the minor leagues you're like, this might not work out.
Like, this actually might not be for me. Or was it similar to when you were going in high school where everything just kept on going as planned as you could work harder? No, you know, about the first 100 at bats.
It didn't go as well as, I don't, but here's the thing. I went into it with this might take some time.
I don't know what this is going to be because I always had power in BP, but a lot of people have power in BP, right? They're just lobbing it to you, crank as hard as you want to, right? But could I hit for average? And could I hit when the pitcher was actually trying to get me out, right? Here comes the sinkers and the cutters and the high fastballs or whatever, not just the, here's the fastball, see what you can do with it. I would say that first hundred at bats um and then after that my timing like really started to click and then to be honest i was kind of surprising myself like i was starting to cover some stuff that whatever and i had a pretty decent first year i think it was um i hit i don't know maybe 26 homers or 21 homers with 276 and 300 some at bats and then that offseason i trained with chris duncan Chris Duncan and Gabe Johnson who were in Jupiter at the time and we were like crazy about it obsessive we're all trying to make it at the time and when that spring training started something happened to where like I mean it was crazy what I was doing the balls I was covering now and the home runs I was hitting spring training and I ended up blowing out blowing out my knee, and I missed that entire year.
But Tony La Russa was like, you were going to make the team right then and there. Like I was leading almost everyone in the stuff we were doing.
So that, when I seen that moment, I knew, like, I can do this. I got it.
So even though I blew out my knee and missed that entire year when I came back the next year, what had happened in that spring training i was like yeah here's a really generic question i'm sure you've been asked a lot but i am interested in like the real world application of it so you come back as a hitter having been a pitcher your entire career i assume that gave you some sort of a leg up or an advantage over somebody that hasn't been in those shoes but i'm curious like what specifically those advantages were yeah. Yeah, so as a pitcher in different organizations are different, right? A lot of counts you're taught to do certain things.
I mean, the regular fan knows stuff. 2-0 count, you're probably getting a fastball.
There were things at first, for sure, I felt like I could read people's body language a little bit. But the more I got into it, the more you realize not everyone pitches like you pitch.
So they might not attack me like I would attack me. And you start selling out or cheating for a certain pitch, and you get crossed up a few times.
And it really has to go back to look fastball and adjust to the off speed because that's the only way you can kind of cover both. So you hit that first home run in MLB back at Bush Stadium.
Did you even feel your feet touching the ground when you're running around the bases? Man, I felt like I floated around on a magic carpet, and I remember hitting it. And when I hit it, kind of my top hand, my bottom hand came off the bat.
My top hand stayed on it. You kind of stayed through stay through it so it wasn't that I crushed it but I got enough of it to think oh my god I think I got it and I'm running the first watch of the ball looking at the outfielder you're judging it and as soon as I could tell that it was over it was like I mean the biggest burst of emotions you could ever have I could feel the ground shaking from the people cheering.

And I remember when I was rounding second, my third baseman, Jose Kendo,

I'm looking at him and I'm thinking, oh, my God, I did it.

Like this just happened.

You know, you can't draw it up any better.

And it was incredible.

No, my whole body was numb.

It was just a surreal experience.

It's nuts.

It's nuts.

It's a crazy story.

And I hate the Cardinals.

I'm a Cubs fan. But the Cardinal fans, I'll give them credit.
You called them the best fans of baseball. They did have your back pretty much through the whole ordeal going down, retiring, coming back.
Did you ever feel like they were wavering on you? Or do you ever think maybe, Hey, if I was in social media age,

like I'd be kind of screwed here.

People would make a lot of jokes and people would be like this bomb and all

that stuff.

Um,

yeah,

of course I've thought about that.

Um,

one,

I'll just start with,

with Cardinal fans.

Um,

no,

you don't have to know.

Okay.

Okay.

No,

no,

go ahead.

We'll start.

Um,

no,

it felt like they always had my back and whenever I would show back up,

it was just,

just the ultimate support and still is it. I mean, they treat me like I'm Willie McGee or a Hall of Famer.
It's unreal the way that I'm treated there. You know, when you look at the social media side of it, I'll compare it to baseball.
So when I went to the Yips, when I was pitching, went through the Yips. I had to stop watching baseball.
I couldn't watch it at all because I would start thinking about, he's okay, but he's doing that. I might try his mechanics, go outside and throw.
All these feelings. I had to just give up watching baseball, which was my entire life.
So the way I look at social media now, yes, I think it would have been harder because of that, but I would have just turned it off. Because you would have to have to right what are you gonna do you can't fill yourself in negativity all day and if that's what it'd be then it's got to be turned off yeah because i i i just think you know i remember watching the game in 2000 and now looking back at it like the amount of jokes the amount of you know like clips that would have been shared it would have been crazy because that's kind of what we do as a society.
Someone falls, someone screws up. It's a roast show.
It might have been, but it might have been marketing genius. Yeah, true.
I could have spun it in that direction and ran off. I mean, your comeback would have been incredible on social media.
As much as you would have been roasted, people would have immediately felt bad for having roasted you. It would have went bigger.
Yeah, now way bigger because that's really what we are is like americans we like to tear people down then build them back up of course yeah and then act like we had something to do with the reason why ourselves on the back yeah yeah makes us feel good yes uh what was it like playing with uh angels legend albert pujos um he's the best hitter that i've ever played with line to line there's no question about it so when he came up in 2001 he came out a ball right but in spring training you're looking at it and going what where did he come from right it was like just bursted on the scene and i think that first year it was 40 something homers and 130 something rbis and i always considered myself a hitter even though i was like pitcher and that that hadn't happened yet but i just i paid attention to hitting and i'm like that isn't who does that right does that their first year and the way he was doing it the power that he was showing to the opposite field and then somebody try and throw him in and he could pull his hands in and keep it fair i was just sitting there like i had finally watched someone where i was like i can't do that he's better than i he's better than better swing than i'll ever have that's what you know that's you're always judging yourself against right or wrong you just do man i could be better than that guy no i'm not better than that guy yeah did it help having joe buck as your announcer then just knowing that he was up there hating every other team that wasn't the cardinals? He's a good friend of ours. Yeah, no, it's all good.

I love Joe, and I had Jack at first.

I have a scorecard signed from Jack in my office at home.

So, you know, I know their family.

And, you know, I think if you understand Cardinal baseball, Cardinal world, Cardinal fans,

it's really hard not to be a homer.

It's just what everybody – everybody's a Cardinal fan.

It's just what it is. You grew up in St.
Louis. You cheer for the Cardinals.
That's about it. Yeah, it's religion.
It really is religion. As much as the Cubs fans are.
How about Dave Ross, too? Yeah. Yeah.
Do you like that move? Love it. So from a player's perspective, if you had a manager, because obviously Tony La Russa is a little older, if you had a manager who had played with you a couple years before, don't you think that would be a little weird? I think in some situations it would be in this one, though, because David has always been that leader on the team anyway.
I played with David on the Braves, and this is when we had Eric Hensky and David Ross basically kept the clubhouse together. Hensky's back tattoo.
Awesome. A lot of work.
That guy has put a lot of money on his back for a really shitty tattoo. Yeah.
I like Eric. A lot of work.
I do too. He's a great guy.
But so they kept the clubhouse loose. And what they did was, you know, they didn't let a superstar get outside of the team.
So at the time it was like Chipper Jones, who was older than everyone. We know he's going to be a Hall of Famer.
Like, busting jokes on Chipper. But keeping everybody in line.
Like, you see somebody not doing what they're supposed to do. Hey, you need to do that.
do that well he was that guy so i think when you understand what he was as a player who he was him stepping into the manager role it's not i don't think it's really going to be much different for him to be like hey man we got it you know we want to get that done right what about the idea that if you're uh if you're a rookie coming up and you see your manager like he went through a world series run with you know several guys on the team. Would that be a little concerning, showing favoritism, dynamic a little bit off that way? Because I feel like if I were a rookie, I would always have that in the back of my mind.
He'll always be closer with Rizzo than he is to me. Yeah, I would answer that with, you don't like it, play better.
Because if you start playing good, you're going to be his favorite real quick. And I don't care what team you play on, there's always favorites.
I don't care what school your kids go to, that teacher has favorites. It's the way the world works.
It's a good life lesson, yeah. No, it is.
It's definitely true. Who is Tony LaRusso's favorite? Whoever was playing the best.
Albert Pujols at the time. But, yeah, I mean, that's – you know, Tony kind of played mind games like that a little bit.
Like, if you weren't playing good, you know, he might not talk to you. That's just kind of the way he was.
So it was funny. So if we were losing, you know, usually have everyone on the rail.
And sometimes you'll have a couple guys like maybe standing in the dugout back. If we were losing and you seen Tony like starting to look this way, you would run towards the rail because like it would be your fault that we were losing.
If you seen the back of your jersey. Stay out of the line of sight.
Yeah, stay out of the line of sight. When you were playing in the outfield, did you ever fuck around with your teammates or hit the cutoff man with a curveball and just screw with him in practice? In practice, I did.
Never in a game because it's a game, but we would always mess around in the outfield, and I did this as a pitcher. Sometimes I would just throw a curveball without telling them, whether they could catch it or not and they'd be like what the well if you can't catch it they can't hit it so i just wanted to say yeah what about when you would throw someone out would there ever be a part of you in the back of your head you're like maybe i still got it um like i threw a strike there from fucking 150 feet away or whatever well that was a screwed up part about it i was accurate from 300 feet than I was 60.
But when I got into that close range, there was just this feeling that wouldn't let me do it. Did you ever ask Tony if you could pitch from the outfield? No.
I actually talked about throwing out the first pitch to a cardigan from the outfield. We did talk about it.
That would be sick. But I have a story that's your private life.
So one of the things that we did mess around with in the outfield, Chris Duncan, who I loved dearly, he had a little bit of anxiety when it came to making plays and making catches. So we started messing around and making jokes.
So the big joke became when the ball was in the air, we'd be like, watch out for the kayak. Like the craziest thing you could think of when the guy was under the ball trying to catch it.
Because hopefully we're thinking, take your mind off of whatever. So you're over there and you're like, watch out for the baby carriage.
You hear. It became a running joke.
It's pretty fun. That's, I mean, that's kind of messed up of you to do that to other people.
Yeah. But it was fun.
We did it to each other, so it didn't matter. It was who could come up with the crazy.
Imagine if at one point, though, there was a coyote in the outfield. Watch out for the coyote.
You just got mauled to death by the dog. All right.
I have one last question. SeatGeek question.
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Thanks to SeatGeek. I was reading that you were talking about a comeback as of this past year.
What happened there? And are you officially, officially retired? So I had to have a second tommy john and then they did they gave me a procedure where you can actually come back quicker it's a newer procedure but anyway so i was along that path of coming back i got to my throwing program we got back to about 90 feet um i strained the flexor tendon i took some time off they're like really probably need about six weeks off and when you a look at the season mathematically, by the time I'd have been done rehabbing, if I had zero setbacks from that moment, um, the season was almost over. I have kids that are seven and eight.
And honestly, um, I was really felt depressed. I would say darkly depressed going through the surgery, just sitting around, not being able active is not not my who I am and just going through that um and then looking at it I felt like you know what if I god forbid if something happened I had to have another surgery I don't know if I could handle it I just didn't wouldn't want any part of it and it made me think you know what being with my kids they're seven and eight I got a chance to coach their little league games I was like this is where it where it's at.
I'll go to TV and continue on Fox Midwest. So what were you throwing? Well, so I was only back to 90 feet, right? So you're not letting it eat yet.
I love that. We love when we had Barry Zito on.
He was saying some stuff like letting it eat. It's such a great pitcher thing.
And also the way you do this is like, I wish I could fucking. You got it.
No, I don't. You're like, yeah, you know, you throw throw the curve and you throw the five like that's just a cool thing pitchers do like were you did you get so before i threw in a tournament that's the whole uh comeback thing came about i felt strong it felt good it would it would have been coming out hot shit yeah coming out how old are you uh i just turned 40 last year and do you play softball sometimes when i get a call that must be awesome yeah monday nights every that must be like high school you just fucking dominate people just hitting 40 last year.
Do you play softball? Sometimes when I get a call. That must be awesome.
Yeah. Monday nights every now and again.
That must be like high school. Yeah, it's fine.
You just fucking dominate people just hitting bombs. Trying to hit it as far as you can.
Damn. That's not fair.
Yeah, if I was going up against you and you stepped into the box, I'd just throw four outside. Be like, go chase these.
Yeah. Yeah.
You know what? Most guys laugh about it because I'm not there to be that guy. You're just there to hit bombs.
Well, I live like across. But you're not going to not a bomb.
There's times I don't hit a bomb. It's out of your hands.
There's times I don't hit a bomb. No, there's times I don't hit a bomb.
But I live across the street from the softball fields. So you don't want to hit your house.
Might be just staying on the front porch like you guys need an extra. Hey, there are times when I text a couple guys like, hey, if you need a guy, I'm not doing anything tonight.
Guy you need cleats on. Yeah.
But when they need a guy, I'm like, yeah, I'll come over. Oh, that's some problems fuck it yeah that's great uh i have one last question when you were when you're going through all this or even afterwards did you ever get uh did you reach out to like anyone else that's gone through the names i'm thinking of chuck knoblock he had a similar experience or did those type of guys reach out to you do you have like a group text where you're like former yips havers um support group no but there should be um i didn't and what what happened was is i got with harvey dorfman who was my agent's mental guy and you know we just worked on it non-stop um you know when i was going through that i felt like i don't give a crap about anyone else i just want to know how to fix it um but one thing i would say um and it took me a while to get to this, is that talking about it does help.
So when you talk about a group text, I think guys that are going through it, when you can just admit it, and almost like Eminem did in his movie, when you just admit it to the world, you're not hiding it. Everyone sees it.
And I feel like the more you talk about it, the more you can just kind of relax and be like, okay, I'm going through this. So what? Let's try to fix it.
Yeah, take the power away from the yips by bringing it into the light. Yeah, because like you said, when you went into the dugout after the game one, you're like, oh yeah, it's just a mechanical thing.
Not saying like, hey, yeah, there's something else going on here. I was in denial.
Yeah, interesting. All right, well, this has been awesome.
Thank you so much. Rick Ankeel, he's got his book, The Phenomenon, Pressure the Yips, and the P and the pitch that changed my life um we appreciate that anytime you're around come come on through thanks guys yeah yeah thanks awesome that interview with rick ankeel is brought to you by quip quip toothbrushes quip is awesome i've got one in my house it solves a lot of problems it makes brushing fun it makes brushing something that I look forward to.
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That's MVMT.com slash pardon. Okay, let's get to Fyre Fest.
Then we're going to do a little baseball talk. Then we have the much-anticipated Mike Florio talking Colin Kaepernick.
But really, we just pranked him to talk about fantasy football. Why don't you go first, Big Cat? Firefest, you want me to go first? All right, so my Firefest is I scheduled a dentist appointment for 3.30 on Friday afternoon.
That is the dumbest thing I've ever done. Why is that dumb? I did it like ago? Cause Friday afternoon is like the end of the week.
Okay. So I'm just dreading it.
If you, if you had a regular job, that's actually the perfect move. You schedule your dentist appointment in the afternoon on Friday.
Then you just don't go back. Right.
But I have not a regular job and Friday afternoon is like the only time that we basically like shut it up, shut it down for a minute and I'm going to a fucking dentist and I'm going to get root canals and cavities and all this shit because I don't take care of myself. It would actually be great, though, to do a podcast while you're still on the Novocaine.
Yeah. And you couldn't talk.
That's why I did it Friday because I can't talk after for a while and our job is to talk. So I did it on Friday, but it was stupid.
And I'm'm probably there's a 75 chance i just don't go it would sound great if we if you just slow it down right now you slow down this podcast to half speed this is what it sounds like after you go to the dentist and you're slurring your words and you're speaking slowly you got to know charlie bit me charlie bit me uh my other fire fest is that I legitimately 100% have bought into the fact that if the Bears beat the Rams on Sunday night, they're going to the playoffs.

Yeah.

Your brain is a fire fest right now.

100% bought in.

They win on Sunday night.

They're going 11 and no 10 and 6.

It's a very fine line between having your brain be a fire fest and just a dumpster fire.

Correct.

You're dancing on the edge of that fault line.

So I'm it's I don't even know what.

I mean, it's going to happen.

They're going to be a fire fest and just a dumpster fire. Correct.
You're dancing on the edge of that fault line. So I'm – it's – I don't even know what – I mean, it's going to happen.
They're going to go to the playoffs. Okay.
Done. Hank, PFT.
Okay. Yeah, we'll go next.
All right. My fire fest I had this week.
That was fucked up. Old school.
I have – Now Hank forgot it. Breaking moves.
I just saw this on the lower bar. Daniel Jones has put out the trademark for Danny Dimes.
Oh, shit. Yeah.
Okay. Good thing we already sold shirts that say that.
Okay. Cool.
That Breaking Moves was brought to you by Chocolate Milk for real recovery that tastes real good. Dude, just trademark real swag is no swag.
Danny Dimes. I feel like you shouldn't be able to, especially after the way he's been playing the past year yeah.
And like there's going to be. Maybe do that after coming off a win.
Right. Like if there's like a point guard with the name Dan.
Or if there's another quarterback is better. Like you.
I don't think we're ready for. That should actually be the patent lawyer.
Or a Coke dealer. Or a Coke dealer.
Patent lawyer or the patent judge. However, these things work.
Should essentially say like. You need to go to a Pro Bowl before we let you have this patent.
I agree. The patent lawyer should be a sports fan.
You have to be over 500. You can't suck and get a patent.
Also be sweet if he was like, you know what? Retroactively, I'm not going to accept this patent application. We give it to Dan Marley because I'm a big sports fan.
That'd be sick. All right.
Hank, what was your fire fest? I had a few. one was losing to you guys in fantasy we talked about that later it's tough you stink tough to uh just have a fantasy football podcast and lose that way my other one was that i got we had picture day again and i got besides getting roasted by biz for no reason i got absolutely roasted because my shoes were a little bit dirty uh and it was just unnecessary agreed shoes better myself yeah shoes are Agreed.
Shoes are for wearing. Couldn't say it better myself.
Yeah. Shoes are for wearing.
That's it. Your shoes were a little dirty.
Yeah. Okay.
Big, big roast. What did Biz say? Hey, what are those? Off-whites? Listen, I'm not going to say it again.
It's tough to come up with Firefest week in and week out. Your life is too good.
I rack my brain. Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, start fucking up more, Hank. You guys are just so easy to work with and so enjoyable to be with all the time.
Life is so good. My Firefest of the week is for all the kids that are going to be going to game day at Baylor.
It's going to be Baylor against Oklahoma. Okay.
And there are going to be tons of kids that show up with a sign that says, OK Boomer on it, making fun of the Sooners. And they're going to look at everyone else in the audience that has that same exact sign and be like, oh, shit.
I wouldn't be shocked if Lee Corso has an OK Boomer shirt on. Yeah, that's actually not unrealistic.
You might put a mascot face on that's just an old man that says OK Boomer. Right.
It's a big time fire fest in advance. I guarantee there'll be at least, I'd say like 12 to 14 signs that you see on Saturday that say OK Boomer.
That's a good call. In Waco, Texas, the home of the original Firefest, might I add.
I know that Big Cat was getting a little bit triggered earlier about OK Boomers, like saying that they're on the way out. What? I think you said that like last week maybe? Earlier.

Earlier than that.

Say you're done with OK Boomers, I think is what you said.

I don't even remember, did I?

The OK Boomer is the new crying Jordan.

Yes, I said that.

Because if you get hit. I caught in the streets.

I don't think I was.

I can't even remember if I was.

If you say that you're done with OK Boomers, people can just hit you with an OK Boomer.er you know what I'm saying that's how it used to be out in these streets with crying Jordans I don't remember if I was mad about it or not I don't yeah I mean I get what you're saying it's it's it's just gotten too much there's just too many of them and also I think it's when the boomers started co-opting it that's when they ruined it they took their word back Yeah. Right.
And they're like, I saw some like the Gen Xers that feel uninvolved. Yeah.
That's the other one. That's like, what about us? Gen X.
Someone had some op-ed in like New York Times. They're like, OK, Boomer.
How about OK, Millennials? Boomers have all the money. Yeah.
It's like, dude, but that's the point. That's why we're saying OK, Boomer, because you guys are fucking assholes.
Yeahholes who took all the resources on Earth and left us with this shit pile.

Oh, my other fire fests, I forgot to give two picks during 50s ad reads.

Okay.

All right.

That's a good fire fest.

One of them is what they do after they score a touchdown.

They celebrate?

They dance?

Oh, I do not know.

What do they do after they score a touchdown? They have to. Dougie.
Kicker. Field goal.
Ora. Pat, the Patriots.
There you go. Nice.
Took us well to get there. And this one is a U.S.
currency. Dimes.
Nope. The Giants.
I don't know. Shit.
Bills. Nope.
Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one.
Fuck. I hate your riddles.
Your riddles suck, man. Same letter as bills.
Bills. The bills.
The bees. The bears.
No, we already did the Rams. These suck.
The people are yelling right now. Like, how could you not think of this? How could you not think of this? Broncos.
Nope. Damn it.
You know? Bucks. The Bucks.
Oh, U.S. currency.
Gotcha. Gotcha.
Okay. Bucks.
The Buccaneers, dude. That's not a currency.
The Bucs. The Buccaneers.
That really was invalid because it had two correct answers. All right.
Before we get to the Florio prank, we need to talk a little baseball because the Astros, this is getting deeper. Seems like they've been cheating a lot, a lot.
And it's gone to a point where people are very mad. Although, I think that the only thing that hurts the anger is that it's the middle of football season.
So literally, by the time the first game kicks off on Saturday, no one will care. I'll say this about baseball.
They do a very good job at timing their scandals to come out when it's not during baseball season. Right.
So when it's football and a scandal comes out, it's usually like right in the middle of it. Right.
And everyone's talking about it becomes an on the field story. And baseball, they do a great job of just kind of burying it.
If this was August, it would be the only thing that people are talking about. Yep.
But now it's like, okay, Astros, you kind of fucked up. We probably won't remember until baseball starts again.
And then we'll be like, oh, yeah oh yeah the Astros so I had an idea that the punishment for the Astros should be that AJ Hinch has to be DH for every AL game next year he played in Major League Baseball he won't be he'll be terrible but it'll be funny terrible and it's a competitive disadvantage to the Astros to have that in their lineup every night okay and guys can at him. I like that part.
That's the best part, I think. Yeah.
What about also having him pitch one inning a game? Or no, pitch until he gets an out every game at home. Oh, how about this? How about he has to pitch? How about he has to start every series as the pitcher until he gets an out? Okay, yeah, I like that one.
So every new series he has to start, and then he can finish once he gets that out.

Also, I'd like to see the punishment kind of be spread out evenly across all the leagues,

have a little bit of reciprocity with the NFL.

So when the Patriots got caught doing this, Hank, you probably don't remember this,

but they got caught taping opponent signals as well. What was the fine they got? Was it $500,000? And it was a first-round draft pick? Yep.
Okay, so they should fine $500,000 and take away a first-round draft pick from the New England Patriots. This is much worse.
So they were cheating in-game. So two picks from the Patriots then? No.
Very funny. Very funny, PFT make it even I know disavow I have a question for you guys are you guys in the camp of who cares everyone cheats or are you in the camp of this is actually the worst thing that's ever happened to baseball how could they we got to fix this I'm in the camp of this is banner taking down territory yeah oh death penalty for the Ast program? Yeah.
The only problem I have with that is then you'd have to raise a banner and Clayton Kershaw would get a ring. I'm down for that, though.
Just to eliminate. Could you imagine the Twitter moment of everyone having to be like, hey, he actually is clutch.
Kershaw got over the hump two years later. Yeah.
Maybe this is what we do. Maybe we have Clayton Kershaw.
We take the Astros banner, and Clayton Kershaw has to raise the Dodgers banner,

but he has to do it by free soloing up the pole,

knowing that it's a clutch moment and he'll just fall and die.

Okay.

Yeah, I'm down for that.

Or just put the banner up in Louisville Stadium in place of their old one.

I like that, too.

Maybe that is it. Rick Pitino has to get a Dodgers tattoo.
We should actually make Rick Pitino's back just every banner that's had to be taken down. I like that.
Like the scoundrels version of the Trill Ballins avatar. Yeah, that actually should be the deal.
Rick, you can come back to NCAA basketball. You can coach, but all banners that have ever been taken

down, like the fucking White Sox,

Shoeless Joe Jackson, boom, banner

on your back. Yep.
I'm down for that.

Okay, perfect. Tell me why not, Rick.

I think we saw it. I actually think that what we should do

is we should go back to some of the

Astros games this year, and we

should get the footage, and we should edit in

basically a drum solo

before an off-speed pitch, and then release

them on Twitter from an anonymous account.

Because that's big right now. People are combing

Thank you. should get the footage and we should edit in like basically a drum solo before an off-speed pitch and then release them on twitter from an anonymous account yes and because that's big right now people are combing through every astros game every at bat with a fine-tooth comb let's let's get real fucking weird stay woke they basically made a controversy that made people watch more baseball yeah you probably have to go buy whatever major league baseball package is to have access to every bat from every single game.
That sucks. That's a great job, baseball.
Going back and watching them. I mean, I saw the clip of the White Sox versus the Astros in the middle of August or whatever it was.
Someone went back and watched all of that. Yeah.
Actually, John Boyd does because he's done every clip, which he is the perfect case of, I understand if you're a Yankee fan, you should be furious because the Yankees lost in 2017 in the ALCS they lost in 2019 in the ALCS so they should be very very upset every other fan I don't know who cares I feel better as a Nationals fan again it makes it worth more for me so I'm totally fine that this came out I also said that there was one other thing that happened in baseball yesterday I don don't know if you know this, but the winter meetings are happening soon. There's a tradition at these winter meetings where they award a championship belt, like a wrestling title belt to the executive that does the best job at keeping arbitration numbers down when it comes to salary negotiations.
That's awesome. It's just been like a gentleman's agreement to say like, Hey, nice job, not nice job, beating a player in arbitration.
Right. They're not doing it anymore because they think that it's a bad look.
So they just now decided to stop officially. Let's just say it's going to be Derek Jeter anyways.
I would imagine Scott Boris would come in with a steel chair and just smash that executive over the head. Yes.
Take the belt. That's exactly what it is.
That should be the highest arbitration should be the executive who has won the belt versus Scott Boris in a ladder match. Yeah, or you can keep doing the belt for the guy that wins the lowest arbitration number.
But then the guy that fucks up the most, Scott Boris gets to jump off a cage. The guy's laying on a table.
And what's it called? Who's the guy that does really high flying ones shay mcmahon shay mcmahon yeah get get scott boris to shano right onto that exactly the sternum yes um okay let's get to mike florio we had him on under false pretenses because we wanted to trick him into talking about his fantasy football team which was hilarious so you'll hear ronan tank do a little fantasy football factory yeah and then we actually do talk to him about colin cappertine and get to the bottom of what's going on with the league but don't fast forward totally no his fancy football advice because he does have a theory that we very much enjoy he has a take that is so spicy and so mike florio we loved it we took everything in our body to not say anything at that moment welcome back to the fantasy football factory usually. Usually we have guests from inside Barstool, inside our league, but today we have a very

special guest. The first outside of Barstool guest on the program, it is Mike Florio of Pro Football

Talk. Mike, thank you for coming on.
How are you doing today? I'm doing great. How are you guys?

Fantastic. We're doing well.
We'll jump right into the questions if that's all right.

The paramount position in fantasy football, some people would argue that it's running backs, but this year it seems so mercurial at quarterback. And I wanted to get some of your insights on maybe some prognostication as far as going forward.
Are there any quarterbacks that might be getting benched? And if so, what kind of backups can we be looking for to really pick up that slack in production? I think one that comes to mind most immediately is Brandon Allen in Denver. He's just holding the spot, I believe, until Drew Locke is ready to go.
The expectation is Allen's going to be the quarterback this weekend when Denver plays at Minnesota. But my guess would be sooner than later, Drew Locke's going to be on the field.
Now, I don't know what kind of numbers he's going to generate, whether he's going to be better than whatever other option someone has, but I could see Drew Locke getting on the field, not by way of a classic benching, but more along the lines of, hey, this is the guy we drafted in round two, the season's lost, he's healthy now, let's put him out on the field. Is there any truth to the Chad Kelly rumors? Is he worth picking up in a league, or do you think he's not going to see the field? I'd be surprised if Chad Kelly plays because he's now third on the depth chart in Indianapolis.
Jacoby Brissett, when things were going well and they were 5-2, he was an MVP candidate, at least on the fringe of the discussion. Then he has a knee injury, misses most of the Steeler game, they lose.
Misses the Dolphin game, they lose. Another 5-4.
They're going to be 5-5. They lose the Jaguars this weekend.
Nick Foles is back. That's a guy that I grab in both of my leagues, not that anybody cares.
And let me just mention this. I thought this whole thing was a setup by Big Cat.
You get me to talk about my family. So you guys can say nobody cares and hang up on me.
I really did. No, I mean, I've had to deal with that.
Obviously, I produced part of my take, Big Cat and PFT, I always say that. It's something we've had to overcome because people do care about fantasy.
People want to hear. The slogan of the show is that just because no one cares doesn't mean you shouldn't talk about it.
You know what? That's probably the best slogan you can come up with for fantasy football because nobody does care, but we still we still talk about it. As you're going down the stretch, are there any teams that might be quitting on their coaches? Any guys we might see a dip in production from this year? Guys to avoid maybe we want to sit? You know, the Cincinnati situation is strange to me because here they are at 0-9.
They already put Ryan Finley out on the field in place of Andy Dalton. And look, how desperate are they going to be to get a win, to play hard? You're going to have guys who are thinking, let's just stay healthy.
Let's pack it in. Let's just get through this season and worry about next year.
Since there have been two teams that have gone 0-16 since 2008, I don't know that the stigma is what it used to be. I mean, we just had the Browns do it two years ago in the same state where the Bengals are.
But I'm fascinated by that. Is A.J.
Green going to play at all this year? I doubt that he will. What's the upside? So, you know, Ryan Finley most likely continues to play, but I don't know whether or not the Bengals are going to do anything that anyone would really care about.
And another one that I'm just kind of keeping a weird eye on, I don't think this is going to happen, but if the Chargers keep losing and Phillip Rivers keeps looking as bad as he did last Thursday night on that last drive when he threw seven straight incompletions, you have to try to throw seven straight incompletions with the game on the line. Could they put Tyrod Taylor on the field just to see? Just like, hey, we know we're not bringing Phillip Rivers back next year.
That would be the thinking. Let's see what Tyrod Taylor can do.
And does he get a game or two down the stretch? I'm kind of fascinated by how that one can go. Yeah, I feel that it will be very interesting to see.
Who are, if you're looking at teams, you know, players to pick up with teams with easy schedules because they're playing cupcakes going down the stretch, who are some of those teams with players that you'd be looking to pick up? Well, I don't know how cupcake-ish any of the schedules are, and that can change too. I remember saying not that long ago the Browns schedule gets very easy after Week 10 when they play the Bills.
And now all of a sudden they've got two games in three weeks against the Steelers, who aren't the easy win that they were several weeks back, and the Dolphins in between who have won two in a row. So I don't know that any schedule is quote-unquote easy.
But one guy that fascinates me when we get into the final weeks of the season, and of course every league is different on how many weeks it goes into the regular season.

Some wrap up by 15, some take it all the way to week 17.

I'd be tempted at some point to hold Eli Manning in my back pocket

because I feel like he's going to get at least one farewell game.

There's going to be pressure on the Giants from the fans and the media standpoint.

And really, if you're the Giants, what other reason do people have to show up

Thank you. in the NFL, depending upon how badly the Eagles need that game.
So that's one I've been watching ever since he got benched, that if the Giants aren't a factor, and they're clearly not a factor, could there be one or two or even three games for Eli down the stretch? They've got three home games in December, and ultimately this is a business, and you've got to get people to show up. And it will not surprise me at all if there's a quote-unquote injury to Daniel Jones that really wouldn't keep him from playing, that lets Eli Manning finish out the season.
So the year-end rush on Eli Manning, we are going to keep our eyes on that. Now I want to pivot a little bit to how you kind of personally come at your strategy for your team.
So any strategies that you've used, Mike, down the end of the season that have made your teams elite and taken those teams over the top?

Well, here's the problem.

I suck at fantasy football.

So my late season strategy is survival at best.

Nobody gives a fuck, Mike. Come on, Mike.

We're here this whole time.

You fell for this?

God damn it, Mike.

Are you serious? Listen, we had to change the game. The only way we were going to get you is if we had Hank and Roan lure you in for seven minutes about just trivial, stupid fantasy stuff.
Although, I love the Eli Manning take. That was a fantastic take.
The Eli game is going to happen. But, yeah, we don't care.
Are you guys – I can't fucking believe this. Because that was my first reaction when you texted me, Big Cat.
You said, sure, I'm in. I love talking about fantasy.
Yeah, sure it was. And then you play this, oh, I'm going to be on your show the day after Thanksgiving card.
I there a real podcast that you guys do? No, we actually do. Okay, so can you get off speakerphone? Because now you're on the real, we're going to do part of my take real quick.
We actually did. So here's how everything went down.
I'm going to explain it to you. Can you get off your speakerphone? Yeah, I'm off my speakerphone.
All right, so PFT texted last night to the group. He's like, hey, we should have Florio on PMT to talk Kaepernick for a few minutes for Friday's show.

And I said, that's a great idea, but hold on.

Let's have Hank and Roan pretend that they're having him on the fantasy football podcast so we can get him to talk about his fantasy team and then punk him,

but still have him on to talk about Kaepernick.

So here we are.

I'm sorry, Mike, by the way.

I'm sorry. Roan and Hank, well, Roan maybe not so much, but Hank felt bad.
Ronan's a prankster. Yeah, look, I knew this was coming, and I knew it was coming.
I swear, that was the quote, I swear it's not a prank. I swear we're not punking you.
Hank's a great guy. Help him out, please.
I'm coming on your show on Friday after Thanksgiving. I mean, you pulled every card to get me through it because you knew that I knew it was bullshit.
Well, you know what? It's not bullshit because they are going to use that audio on their fantasy football podcast too. Yeah, so it's true.
We just happened to be in the room. Yeah.
Yeah, sure. Well, and also, Mike, you can claim that you knew and that you had your feelers up, but you let them down.
Because that comment you made, like 30 seconds into it, you're like, I just want to say before we get going that I thought this was a prank, but I'm really happy to be here with you fellas. Well, and you know what? And it did occur to me, because I know you guys do a Friday show.
I think it's 4 o'clock. And that's too early.
They're still asleep at 4 o'clock on a Thursday. So, yeah, they're not in there then.
All right, can we talk about Kaepernick, though, for real, for like five minutes and put it on PMT? Pick him up on your fantasy team. Yeah, there you go.
Can you start from the beginning and just explain it like we are children, what exactly is going on with the NFL and Kaepernick? Well, what's going on between the NFL and Kaepernick as of Monday night was absolutely nothing and nobody expected anything to be going on his agent issued a memo a couple of weeks ago addressing some of the false narratives as he called them that are out there about Kaepernick about he doesn't really want to play football and he he uh is a vegan and he wants too much money and he never was really any good in the first place. All that crap has been churning ever since he became a free agent in March of 2017.
My favorite one is he opted out of his contract in 2017 or he would have been employed by the 49ers that year, which is complete and total bullshit because the 49ers were going to cut him anyway. John Lynch, the GM of the team, has told me that.

He said that in other contexts.

They were done with him.

So he hasn't really had a fair opportunity with any team.

He had one visit.

That was in May of 2017 with the Seahawks.

Nobody ever invited him in for a workout.

The Ravens almost did.

The Ravens were looking at him in July of 2017.

His girlfriend posted something on social media that Ray Lewis and Steve Pashotti didn't like, so they canceled it. And he's just been there.
He's been available. There's been nothing.
And now, out of the blue, months after he settles his collusion grievance with the NFL, three months into the season, the NFL sets up this workout, doesn't tell him about it until it's set up, leaks it to the media before they tell him about it, gives him two hours to make up his mind as to whether he's going to do it. He says, I really don't think it's a good idea to do it on a Saturday because teams are kind of busy on Saturdays.
Can we do it on Tuesday? The league says no. Then he says, well, can we do it next Saturday, not this Saturday, so teams have more time to get ready for it, and the league says no.
I mean, it doesn't feel like a genuine attempt to help the guy out. It feels like some sort of strategy, whether a PR strategy or a legal strategy, to make the league look better because they know how bad it looks right now for the NFL and its teams to have just ignored this guy over and over and over again.
It's just so odd that now all of a sudden, this deep end of the season, somebody felt the urgency to do something about it. And I really do think that they are worried that they're going to get another lawsuit filed by Colin Kaepernick for this ongoing collective and individual decision to shun the guy.
And the second lawsuit can actually be stronger than the first one because the second lawsuit would be, hey, now you're ignoring me and not giving me a fair opportunity because you're mad that I filed a lawsuit against you and forced you to pay me somewhere between $1 million and $10 million. So that's where it all is in a nutshell.
They won't tell him who's coming. They've gotten Hugh Jackson to come in and run this workout reportedly, which I don't know that that makes it any more attractive at all.
Eleven teams have committed to attending. But here's the thing that drives me crazy about it.
Anybody can bring him in for a workout anytime they want. Last Tuesday, 39 players worked out for NFL teams.
They fly guys in all the time for a workout. They don't need to do this.
If

somebody's interested in Colin Kaepernick, you bring him in for a workout. If you like what you see, you talk to him about a contract.
If you don't, you move on. And since no one has for nearly three years, I don't know why the NFL felt this urgency to do it now.
You're saying without a doubt that the NFL set this up, got all the wheels in motion, and scheduled it before even talking to anyone with Colin Kaepernick's camp

or his agent or to him directly? He was blindsided by this? Yeah, they set it all up, and then they dropped it on Kaepernick. They actually called people in the media last week, a select group of reporters.
I was not selected, but a select group of reporters were given a heads-up last week that there would be something on Tuesday that would be worth their while and newsworthy and whatnot. So the league knew this was coming.
The league laid the foundation for it. And then on Tuesday, they dropped it on Kaepernick and said, you've got two hours to tell us what you're going to do.
And it's not something that feels like a genuine effort to help the guy. It feels like it's some kind of a chess match.
It's some kind of a game. It's like I felt when you asked me to do this today.
Something else is going on here, and it's ultimately not going to be in my interest to do this. That's pretty much how Kaepernick feels.
They might be punking Kaepernick, and nobody's going to show up, and then Roger Goodell is going to be like, gotcha. Well, and here's what I really do think will happen.
I think no matter what he does at that workout, the assessment is going to be he doesn't have it anymore, and we're going to have anonymous scouts who leak that to select reporters who they know will pass along that BS, and then it's over. Hey, it's done.
We gave him his chance. Our conscience is clean.
We gave him his workout, and nobody signed him, and that's that. That's why I think they'd like to have all 32 teams there so they can all collectively decide we see what he can do, we don't like it, and we move on.
Because think of it this way. If he works out and the scouts who are there are blown away and all of a sudden there's a rush to sign him.
How glaring does that make it look that they've ignored him all these months? Like, why wouldn't you just brought him in to see what he can do? It's obvious he can do it, and you've ignored him for nearly three years. So I really think that the end result is going to be, well, thanks for playing along, Colin, but you just don't have it anymore.
All those narratives out there about you are 100% accurate. Okay, so here's the only thing I don't understand in the entire timeline and everything you've said and how it's kind of a farce is why did the NFL wake up, whatever it was, November 12th, and decide here is the time that we are going to tackle this issue even if it's a fake ruse of a workout where we give no one any you know

warning and we fly everyone in and it's it's it's all kind of thrown together why did it happen now like what why did the nfl now decide this is when we're going to make it seem like we actively want colin kaepernick back in the league if this is an effort to take steam out of a second lawsuit that he could file for collusion and retaliation, et cetera.

I think that what happened was when... If this is an effort to take steam out of a second lawsuit that he could file for, collusion and retaliation, et cetera,

I think that what happened was when his agent several weeks back issued that memo attacking point by point the BS that's been out there for the last two and a half years, my guess is that got the attention of Jeff Cash, who's the NFL's general counsel. And that's when he decided we better do something here because the foundation has been laid for him to come after us again.
And we eventually may have to cut even bigger check than the first check that was cut to Colin Kaepernick for blackballing him from March of 2017 until February of 2019, when they settled that case. And then it takes time to put the wheels in motion.
You get the teams on board with it. You come up with your strategy.
You come up with how it's going to happen. It's very carefully planned to best protect you against the liability that you're hoping to minimize, but also ensure that people are on board with doing this.
And it just so worked out that this was when, this was the week when all the pieces fell together. That would be my theory because there's no rhyme or reason to it.
If you're going to do something like this, somebody suggested to me yesterday this was part of the settlement of the grievance that was resolved back in February, and I said it can't be, and I've since found that it's not, because if you're going to do that, his lawyers aren't going to say, yeah, let's do it in the middle of November. You're going to do it in July.
You're going to do it when there's a chance to get this guy to training camp, when there's an opportunity to compete for a spot on the roster. Everybody's got their roster set right now.
The only way you're going to get a chance is if somebody has an injury. Nobody's going to say, oh, you know what, hey, we don't really like our backup quarterback.
Let's go ahead and cut him and let's sign Colin Kaepernick instead. Even though he doesn't know our roster, he doesn't know our coaching staff, he doesn't know our offense, let's just go ahead and dump our backup quarterback and sign Colin Kaepernick during the playoff run.
I mean, the best case scenario for Kaepernick is if he really is great at this workout, and then there's an injury, like to Lamar Jackson or Robert Griffin III in Baltimore, because that's the offense that he knows best. Greg Roman was his offensive coordinator in San Francisco, so you bring him in if that occurs.
But the chances of somebody just coming out of this workout saying, well, we must have Colin Kaepernick, and we're going to cut one of our current players and put him on the roster, it's very, very minimal. I'd be shocked if it happens.
But that's my take on how I think we got to this point. Somebody got scared that they were setting themselves up for more liability.
They put the wheels in motion, and this is the week that it all fell together. I think the biggest piece of evidence, maybe how the NFL is overplaying their hand, that they're setting him up to fail, is that Hugh Jackson is going to be coaching him up during this.
You went a little bit too far with that. You should have brought in Spagnuolo or Jim Hazlitt to run it.
Somebody that's bad, but not historically bad at coaching to run it. Now, Mike, you used to be an employment lawyer.
You dealt with employment law all the time. Is it commonplace that somebody who sues a company successfully for collusion or anything else for that matter would then go ahead and return to work for that company? Have you ever encountered like, or have you ever encountered a double lawsuit where you sue for collusion and then you sue again for continued collusion? Yeah, usually in a normal workplace, what happens is that first lawsuit is for some form of illegal discrimination based on age, gender, race, et cetera.
Or if you've engaged in some sort of protected activity. Like one of the cases I handled involved a guy who complained about a safety condition at an aircraft maintenance facility that could have caused a serious problem, and he complained about it.
And then after that, he was the guy that they couldn't wait to get rid of. So here's what usually happens.
When you resolve a case like that,

the settlement will have a clause in it that says

you won't accept future employment with this company

and you won't seek future employment with this company.

Basically, everybody walks away

and they don't have to worry about somebody

who's already sued them once suing them again.

And I figured that when Kaepernick settled his lawsuit

Thank you. and they don't have to worry about somebody who's already sued them once suing them again.
And I figured that when Kaepernick settled his lawsuit back in February that his settlement would have that term in there. So they don't have to worry about Colin Kaepernick.
They buy out his employment rights for the remainder of his career. The problem is the payment they made was far too low to buy out his employment rights.
It would have cost a lot more than that for Colin Kaepernick to go away for good. And once the amount started to leak and it became clear that he didn't sign a term like that, it's like, well, you know what? He still could sue them again.
And as I said, the second lawsuit can be much stronger than the first. Because think of it this way.
If you've got somebody who sues for some type of discrimination, age, gender, race, whatever, usually in most workplaces, there are other people who have those same protected characteristics.

It's very tough to show that there's a bias.

It's always a challenge. They always have some legitimate reason or semi-legitimate reason for firing the person.

But when the second lawsuit is, you have a specific bias against me because I sued you

and I forced you to pay money, that's when people get it.

That's when they understand why the employer is pissed off at this person.

And most people think it's okay. Most people don't realize the law protects everyone against that kind of a situation where if you bring a lawsuit against your employer and they don't like it, and for some reason you're still working there or you're trying to still get employed there and you haven't waived your right to get employed there, you have a better case than you had the first time.
You have rights and it's easier to advance them. And that's kind of where Kaepernick is right now.
And it could be that the NFL's effort to make it harder for him to bring that second lawsuit is going to blow up in the NFL's face and make it easier and provoke him to do it. He may come out of this exercise so pissed off about the way they handled it, and maybe he wasn't going to file that second lawsuit, and maybe now he will.
It's a classic case of just like – it's just the NFL just kind of fumbling and bumbling something huge like this. Mike, thank you.
We care about your fantasy team. Thanks for appearing on both podcasts.
Yeah, everybody let Mike know what a great job he did talking about fantasy football. Yeah, tweet him and say, hey, good call about Eli.
We're going to pick up Eli. Everyone tweet Mike showing him that they're picking up Eli Manning.
Yep, and also ask him your start sick questions on Twitter. You like the Eli Manning take, though.
I do. It's great.
Our faces lit up. We were like, whoa, Eli Manning.
Eli Manning farewell game. I can see it happening.
Week 17. Two more interceptions.
And it would be a much better take if he didn't completely suck at this point. Yeah, but if week 17 the Eagles maybe have the East wrapped up and then it's like Eli can go in, they maybe do a handshake like when they grooved a fastball to Cal Ripken Jr.
in the All-Star game, let him go out, let him look like a hero one last time. Now, Mike, what if Eli throws for five touchdowns? What if he has his own little Matt Flynn game? Is there going to be a demand? Is there going to be a demand for Eli coming off week 17? Yeah, I think everybody learned their lesson in week 17, 2011.
Don't get fooled by what a guy does in week 17. So, look, in all seriousness, I don't think Eli Manning is going to want to play for a second team.
He's never been wired to do that. I think he's done after this year, and he just moves on.
And I don't think anybody's going to want him anyway, which makes it easy for him to walk away. Yeah.
All right, Mike, thanks so much, man. We appreciate it.
You're the best. Great to have you on in football season.
Thanks, Mike. Yeah.
Hey, I think I've been waiting all year. I've been waiting all year.
And last year you guys had me like four or five times. And this year, not a single phone call, not a single request.

That's fine, though.

And I told you, that's fine.

I got plenty of other things to do.

But that's good.

I appreciate having the chance.

Even though you completely and totally screwed me under false pretenses to get me on, I still appreciate being on.

That's why we love you.

Thanks, Mike.

We love you, buddy.

Later.

All right.

See you.

Bye, Dad.

Love you guys.

Did you get that love you guys? Yeah, that was me kicking ass. Hank, make sure not to delete the love you, buddy.
Later. All right.
See you. Bye, Dad.
Love you guys. Did you get that love you guys?

Yeah, that was me kicking this.

Hank, make sure not to delete the love you guys this time. Thank you.优优独播剧场——YoYo Television Series Exclusive Thank you.优优独播剧场——YoYo Television Series Exclusive Thank you.优优独播剧场——YoYo Television Series Exclusive Thank you.