Former VP Of The Spurs Kirk Goldsberry, Game 2 Rockets/Warriors, And Guys On Chicks

Speaker 1 Hey, pardon my take listeners. You can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
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Speaker 1 On today's part of my take, we have former vice president of strategic research for the San Antonio Spurs.

Speaker 1 He also did lead analyst for USA basketball, and he has a new book out, Kirk Goldsbury, one of the smartest guys we've ever had in studio. We talk about the NBA, the three-point line.

Speaker 1 What about Johnny Bonanz? Johnny Bonanza, actually, Johnny Bonanza. One A and one B.
Dude, don't come at Johnny Bonanza's intelligence. I'm dead serious.
He plays the game to win.

Speaker 1 We have him in studio. We stayed late for all you people, for all you award-winning listeners, so we recap all the NBA games, NHL games, who's back, or sorry, Hot Sea, Cool Throne, and Guys on Chicks.

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Speaker 1 Okay, let's go.

Speaker 1 And then I can't name all on the sun.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, we're gonna rock down to Electric Avenue.

Speaker 1 Welcome to part of my tape presented by the Cash App. Use code Barstore and you get $5 for free and $5 to ASPCA help some animals.
Today is Wednesday,

Speaker 1 May 1st. Welcome to May.
We sleep in May. That's right.
Hey, it's actually 1 a.m. right now as we're taping this.
Hey, quick Justin Timberlake impression. It's going to be May.
Yeah, there we go.

Speaker 1 Did you get it?

Speaker 5 Yeah, it was going to be May.

Speaker 1 Fuck.

Speaker 1 That was going to be... People saying it's going to be May? Justin Timberlake.
Okay, so it is May 1st. It is 1 a.m.
We are here after the Rockets versus Warriors game two.

Speaker 1 Unbelievable spread drama at the end. Not really drama in terms of the game.
I feel like the Warriors, they were like up all game, and it felt felt like they had control all game.

Speaker 1 It got a little close in certain moments. James Harden's eye was the big story.

Speaker 1 Steph obviously did another injury just to make sure people were paying attention because the ankle injury wasn't enough. So he also dislocated a finger.
It looked pretty cool. Did you see it?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was a very cool-looking injury. Yes, but James Harden eye was the big story.

Speaker 1 And the refs, I'm sure someone will complain about the refs afterwards. I think the refs were a non-storyline.
You're right. It's the eye.
And to be honest with you, I like James Harden.

Speaker 1 I feel like he looks better with red eyes. It's when he doesn't look high that I'm concerned about James Harden.
Yeah, the party James Harden, we also had Austin Rivers.

Speaker 1 It was about to be like the Austin Rivers game. And then you remember you can never trust Austin Rivers for more than like 20 minutes.
But I do love his confidence.

Speaker 1 He's like Kyrie Irving after Kyrie got visited by the Monsters. Yes.
And

Speaker 1 as a Dubs Nation guy, the Warriors are looking pretty good. Spread it around.

Speaker 1 Everyone scored, but Kevin Durant continues on his scorched earth, I'm the best player in the world, tour, which is officially what 2019 is.

Speaker 1 Here's a little thing to keep in the back of your head, though. Draymond Green got a technical.
I always love how you say Draymond. Draymond.
Yeah, I just love it.

Speaker 1 I put a little spice on it. Yeah, I did.
A little blue master. Yeah, a little bit of a mistake.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 but keep an eye on him because he got another technical tonight. Draymond got another technical tonight.
So he's on his way to earning a one-game suspension at some point during these playoffs.

Speaker 1 He should take it now. After he gets nine.
He should take it now. But no, then the problem is every other technical that you get after that is another game.
Okay, so don't take it.

Speaker 1 He's spacing it out. So the Warriors need to find a way to stop Draymond Green.
Yes. Are we thinking sweep? No.
No. No chance.
No, they're going to take at least one.

Speaker 1 I just wanted to throw it out there. At least one in Houston, right? But it is the Rock.
The Warriors are doing the nuclear Warriors thing. They did the third quarter Warriors thing.

Speaker 1 Actually, at the end of the third quarter, the Rockets kind of came back. But everyone's scoring.
That's when the Warriors, like when

Speaker 1 Kevin Durant has 29 and Steph is putting in shots and Clay gets hot for like 10 minutes, and Draymond is dunking the ball, and Jarebco even had a couple baskets in the first half.

Speaker 1 It's like, what do you do to stop them? You can't. There's really nothing when they're playing this well.

Speaker 1 Iggy's looking like he's a spray. Iggy looks like he's like 25 again.
I like that you call him Iggy. Yeah, you got to.
I call him AI.

Speaker 1 The real AI. Hey, this might just be the one I am talking, but remember Iggy Zalea? She's just like not, doesn't exist in the world.
Hey, quick Iggyzalia impression.

Speaker 1 Remember that video, huh? Has she put out another song since that last one, like eight years ago?

Speaker 5 Not that I know of. Damn.

Speaker 1 She's going to make it come back.

Speaker 1 So the Warriors have a 2-0 commanding lead, Dubs Nation. They have defeated not only the Rockets,

Speaker 1 well, no, the refs are on their side, but the Bad Chemistry Warriors.

Speaker 1 And, of course, a big this league thing happened on Tuesday morning when Scott Foster was announced to be part of the Rockets Warriors game.

Speaker 1 He has a long-standing feud against the Rockets, especially James Harden and James Harden. And then everyone pointed out that these refs get decided before the series.

Speaker 1 But I'm not going to let these little facts get in the way of a good narrative. This was clearly David Stern saying, I'm going to fuck you up, Rockets, because you guys have been complaining too much.

Speaker 1 Well, just because they didn't have an effect on the actual game on the court doesn't mean that they didn't get inside the Rockets' heads by just putting Scott Foster on it to begin with.

Speaker 1 They were rattled. You can tell.

Speaker 1 I think the best thing that we saw was the birth of a meme tonight. James Harden's

Speaker 1 red. James Harden's red eyes.
I think that's. He looked like Bob Costas after a weekend in Soshi.
A couple pink eyes, yeah. Yeah.
Nice blue. Burying it right in there.
Maybe us after a home run derby.

Speaker 1 Hey, Rick Riley joke. Hey, hey, big cat.
What's up? Steph had a dislocated finger, but it looked from Harden's eyes like he was the one that was struggling with a hastily wrapped joint.

Speaker 1 Nice, nice, nice. How many boobs, Hank?

Speaker 1 Who poked Harden in the eye, by the way? Was it Draymond? Yeah. Yeah, we're just going to go with Draymond.
Yeah, yeah. It's a very Draymond.

Speaker 1 Let's talk about the other game.

Speaker 1 Hank.

Speaker 5 1.8 boobs.

Speaker 1 1.0.

Speaker 1 The stats part. Yeah, that took a while on that one, yeah.
Hank, the

Speaker 1 first-placed Milwaukee Bucks showed up finally to the second round. First game, obviously, it looked very bad.
Giannis looked weak, which is crazy to say, but he was awesome tonight.

Speaker 1 They shot 47 threes.

Speaker 1 They did Bucs basketball. What? That's what they do.
They just jack a bunch of threes, and Giannis just dominates down low. Are you worried at all? No.

Speaker 5 The Bucs will not shoot that good for the rest of the series. Kyrie will not play that bad for the rest of the series.

Speaker 1 I kind of agree with that part.

Speaker 5 They are leaving Milwaukee with a win, which is all you can hope for in one of these series.

Speaker 1 They stole one. It was weird.
Kyrie was like, he had an unbelievable game one, and then just was a total no-show in game one.

Speaker 5 I'm okay with that because that means, I mean,

Speaker 1 it's not like you don't have a shitty series.

Speaker 5 If you have a shitty game, it's almost better because you know for the rest of the series, it's going to be on a tree.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't think that you can beat these.
But as I've said, these Bucs are unbeatable in this playoff. They have not lost.
They are going to dominate the East. Clearly the best team.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 They did shoot really well, but they didn't start out shooting that well. No.
It took them a while to find their footing. They went on that crazy run in the third quarter.

Speaker 1 They were up 39-18 in the third quarter. They went on that run like 27-2 for like an eight-minute span going from the third to the fourth quarter.
And that's what they could do.

Speaker 1 They just basically nuke you with threes and Giannis just Euro steps his way halfway across the world to a dunk. Yeah, the Eurostep spelled G-Y-R-O.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so do you think that Giannis is going to at some point do a three-point layup? I think he'll be the first person to do it. Like take off from behind the three-point line.
You could do that.

Speaker 1 It's just like a nice little finger roll. Yeah, there's always, you've seen those like still frames where he has the ball at half court and he's like, this guy only took two more dribbles to dunk.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, I love the Giannis still frames. They're like the NBA equivalent of the Trent Richardson screen grabs where there's a giant hole that he doesn't see.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's always like outside the three-point line when he collects his dribble and he ends up dunking it. Yes.
So that series is 1-1.

Speaker 1 It feels like the NBA playoffs have finally officially started because every series feels good, even though the Rockets are down to what do you think? The series kind of stinks. Which one?

Speaker 1 The Warriors Rockets.

Speaker 5 It's been a letdown.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I always enjoy.
I mean, as a long-time Warriors fan since Monday, I love when they get going.

Speaker 5 But I feel like they didn't really get going tonight.

Speaker 1 There were moments. The third quarter, start of the third quarter, they definitely got going.
They got going a little bit in the first game, too. Yeah, they get going.
These boys are frisky, Hank.

Speaker 1 I don't want you to discount them. These

Speaker 1 warriors

Speaker 1 could beat the Celtics. Actually, any of the three teams, the Warriors, the Warriors, or the Rockets, I think match up very well against the Celtics.
So, in the other series that we have,

Speaker 1 James Butler has arrived. Not Jimmy.
No. James Butler, a man.
He scored 30 against the Raptors in front of Drake's face. Drake, let's do Drake for a second.
He's upset.

Speaker 1 I'm so sick of every, it's like every single one. It's one of the worst.
You know how they're like Masters, one of the best traditions, a tradition, unlike any other.

Speaker 1 Drake screaming at the opposing team while the Raptors get the shit kicked out of them? Not a tradition I care about. No.

Speaker 1 I do want him to bring back the huge, loose-fitting cougar sweaters and those weird glasses.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was really nice when he used to do that. I just don't.
How about the ending of that game, though? Lowry

Speaker 1 tried to nutmeg the guy? Oh, yeah. I give him points for the confidence.
Chris Paul nutmeg the guy tonight. He did, yeah.
A lot of nutmegs. But James Butler,

Speaker 1 this is why the Sixers went and got him because he is the man.

Speaker 1 And when Joel Elmbead has diarrhea and Ben Simmons can't shoot every single game, I think he had six points. But James Butler is your closer, also known as Jay Butt.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Jimmy Butler hangs out and like goes up and down slides with Mark Wahlberg's daughter. James Butler signs for permission slips.
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 The other series we had, so I noticed something funny, PFT. We went out to dinner with some other people on Monday night.
We're not bragging anything. It was just a few people.
Dinner Monks Friends.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that you might know. Malcolm Gladwell, the Bennett Brothers, Charlemagne.
Yeah, Charlemagne, the God. Jesus.

Speaker 1 I Wikipedia everyone beforehand. The guy from Grey's Anatomy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. But anyway, I got home late.
We got home late from the dinner, and I was watching the end of the Blazers Nuggets game, and I was throwing out a few tweets.

Speaker 1 Nuggets fans are very upset with the lack of respect that they get. So we should do a little Respect the Nuggets segment here for the Rado people, the Sea Rads.
Yeah, I like Colorado. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'll say this about Rado.

Speaker 1 Best state flag. Yeah, okay, so let's do some Nugget talk.
So, Rado, best state flag. You can smoke weed there.
Everybody there has tattoos and and a dog. Did you know, little fun fact for you,

Speaker 1 the Nuggets were actually called the Larks when they were founded. Did not know that.
And then they were also called the Rockets for a little bit. The Denver Rockets.
The Denver Rockets.

Speaker 1 That makes sense. Yeah, and then they became the Nuggets in 1974.
Also, because there was another team called the Rockets. Yes.

Speaker 1 Jokic, who is awesome, and we will give credit to because he is one of the best players in the NBA.

Speaker 1 I like him because he used to be a really fat kid, and he had an addiction to Coca-Cola three liters a day. That is a shitload of Coke.

Speaker 1 He stopped it about a year and a half ago, but he fucking loves Coke.

Speaker 1 He was asked about it, and he said that he wouldn't drink it before practice either. So he would do three liters a day from like three o'clock on.

Speaker 1 Was he also the guy that complimented the reporter in the post-game for typing so quickly? Possibly. I think so.
He respects the biz. They also have some of the coolest throwback jerseys.
Easily.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Tipsy center.
Yeah. KMAM Atumbo.
You remember when he cried with the basketball? Yeah, he put the basketball under his head. On top of the rain over his head.

Speaker 1 Well, no, but then he was in the paint. Remember? And then he put it under? I think he slept on it.
I remember. I just remember him crying on the basketball.
He was crying.

Speaker 1 He was when the eighth beat the one. For some reason, I have him putting it under his head, but I might have remembered.
Yeah, when he beat the Sonics. Yeah, people in Colorado forget things.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 1 Sea Rad.

Speaker 1 Why don't they do C-Rad? Sea-Rad's pretty sweet. Here's the thing about the Nuggets.
Not only do they have great throwback uniforms, they have awesome current uniforms. Yeah.
Also, original ABA team.

Speaker 1 Shout out to Nugs. Okay, so we're big fans.
Number one, Rodo C-Rad Sports Podcast. What do you got, Hank?

Speaker 5 Carmelo, J.R. Smith, and AI was an all-time gangster team.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what was that?

Speaker 1 They were just three G's and a team. And

Speaker 1 the light blue Nuggets. Three G's and a rod.
People forget that Carmelo, probably the peak of Carmelo's strengths was that Western Conference final against Kobe.

Speaker 1 He was awesome in that series, and he played a lot of defense, not known for his defense. Also, the thin air.
Thin air. It's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 it's like a natural high oh hank here's another one quick fact uh the pepsi center where the uh nuggets play in sea rad uh the colorado mammoth of the national lacrosse league also play there getting cooler by the second so there's our nuggets talk i still am rooting for the blazers because i love damian lillard and cj mccollum is our hezzy hay yeah recurring guest i always just think of of the nuggets as the utah jazz with a little bit of cayenne pepper yeah utah jazz with a little drink yeah yeah just a little drink on the side yeah Utah jazz with maybe a beer and a shot.

Speaker 1 I like it. I like it.
I agree with you. Go nuggets.
I want nuggets against the Warriors. What do you got, Hank?

Speaker 1 Just held it straight up. Oh, he did.
Okay. And for some reason, I thought maybe he put it under his head as

Speaker 1 like a sleeping in the lane. You're thinking of when T.O.
scored a touchdown and then took a nap on the ball.

Speaker 1 Well, no, what I'm thinking is I'm pretty sure DeKembe said he dreamed that he was going to, they were going to upset the Sonics. So I combined the dream and the ball to him being resting on the ball.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 He is one of the best recurring guests. All right, so that's our best guest.
He speaks like nine languages. Yeah, he does.
He totally cucks the shit out of Pete Buttigieg.

Speaker 1 We have Kirk Goldsbury coming up in a minute to talk a little more basketball. Let's talk a little hockey real quick.

Speaker 1 Another recurring guest, Logan Kator, with a hat trick and a bow, which was a fucking classy move to the Denver fans. Mr.
Clutch. Staying on C-Rad.
Hank, the Bruins down 2-1 now. Are you nervous?

Speaker 1 Nope. Okay.
It was funny because going into tonight, Hank was real jazzed up about the Boston sweep. There's been a lot of Boston sweep talk going around this office recently.

Speaker 1 Hank, you know what we get?

Speaker 5 Not out of my mouth.

Speaker 1 Another breakdown of a possible suspension when Brad Marchand

Speaker 1 hit someone from behind the head.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that was bad. Yeah, well,

Speaker 1 but if you remember correctly, my favorite part about the NHL playoffs is just taking still frames and slow-mo replays of everything and deciding whether there should be a suspension or not.

Speaker 1 People always forget that hockey is played on ice skates, and so there's a lot of times when people are slipping, falling down as they get hit.

Speaker 1 You lose sight of the fact that the entire game is played on the slickest surface known to man. So when you see a guy like Tom Wilson accidentally hit a guy,

Speaker 1 it's usually because they're just slipping.

Speaker 1 The one thing I'll say, Brad Marsh on, like, his job is to be a pest, and that's pretty much the most pest move you can do is to punch someone in the back of the head when no one's looking.

Speaker 1 Also, Tucker Rask, Tuka Rask. I like what you said.
Not great.

Speaker 1 Not a great goaltender, it turns out. Pretty sure it's like

Speaker 1 you got it.

Speaker 5 He's statistically one of the best goalies of all time.

Speaker 1 Especially in the playoffs. No, that's a very

Speaker 1 misleading stat, Hank. How so? Because a lot of great goalies don't necessarily play on great teams that make it far.

Speaker 1 And garbage time saves. And when you're talking about...
Yeah, but you're talking about goals for the reason their teams lost. You're talking about goals against, Hank.

Speaker 5 How could you be a great goalie in your team?

Speaker 1 Goals against, you can have a great defense and not let in that many goals because the other team doesn't get quality shots. But if you let in a softie, everyone gets mad.

Speaker 1 The Islanders, I feel like, haven't played in forever. And the Blues, who I'll admit, I have a personal bias here.
I just cannot live in a world where the St. Louis Blues win a Stanley Cup.

Speaker 1 That would break my heart. I'm just going to pretend that they're not up 2-1 and they're playing really, really great hockey.
Because if I just pretend it's not happening, hopefully it just goes away.

Speaker 1 Here's the flowchart for me in terms of who I root for in the playoffs and hockey. One, the Capitals, two, whoever's playing against the Penguins.

Speaker 1 And then three, I just root for the NHL to have the shittiest possible matchup in the Stanley Cup

Speaker 1 for the ratings. So right now, we figured out that would probably be San Jose and

Speaker 1 Carolina. Yes.
So those are my two teams right now. San Jose, Carolina would be a very, very funny Stanley Cup.

Speaker 1 Shark Hurricane. Instead of Shark NATO.
When they come out of the Shark, it's pretty awesome. Shark Acane.
What do they call it? The tank, right? I think they call it the tank.

Speaker 1 I don't know what they call it. San Jose.
San Jose. If they don't call it the tank, they should think about that.
Big hockey town. Hot seat, cool throne.
Hank, what's going on?

Speaker 5 My hot seat is Usain Bolt.

Speaker 1 Ooh. Really?

Speaker 5 So, this kid, a high school kid,

Speaker 5 Matthew Bowling, ran the hundred, yeah, 100-yard in 9.98 seconds, which is only 0.40 seconds behind Usain Bolt's world record.

Speaker 1 Wait, it was 9.98?

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's really fast. Really fast.
That's extremely. You know what? Here's a fun.
Well, it's not a fun fact, but here's a fact.

Speaker 1 When a French guy ran the 100-meter dash in under 10 seconds, he became like the first white guy in, I don't know, like 50 years or something like that to break 10 minutes.

Speaker 1 The KKK offered him free membership for life. That doesn't seem like a fun fact.
It's not a fun fact.

Speaker 1 It just is. And the French guy just turned it down, obviously, because it's a KKK.
And what does that have to do with this? I'm just saying this is another white guy. Oh.

Speaker 1 I didn't even know his race. I didn't.

Speaker 1 Well, I did. It was 100 meters.
It was a blue streak. Well, I knew it was 100-meter race.

Speaker 5 So I feel like it's got to be only a matter of time.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Did he beats Usain Bolt? Yeah. Well, Usain Bolt should come out of of retirement and play football, which would be awesome.
That's true.

Speaker 5 Or just run against him.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that too.

Speaker 1 What else? You got a cool throne or you got another hot seat?

Speaker 1 Also, I'd just like to say for the record, I'm glad that the French guy turned him down. Yes.
Yeah. We are an anti-KKK podcast.
Also, KKK, what a bunch of losers.

Speaker 1 You're having to invite French people into your club now? Yeah, kind of weird. Like, the French guy probably was like, what is this? Yeah.
Je necessit pas. Quis que se que que que.

Speaker 5 For my cool throne, I had Justin Timberlake because it's May. I also had aliens.
I'm sure you guys saw this as well, but the U.S.

Speaker 5 Navy is changing the rules so pilots can more openly report UFO sightings.

Speaker 1 What is okay, so.

Speaker 5 Like before, if you were in the Navy and you reported a UFO sighting and it wasn't true, like you got in trouble, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 5 They're making it so that they want to encourage people to come forward.

Speaker 1 They're just calling for golf. Yeah.
That they took away, which is bullshit. It is bullshit.
Yeah, they took that away.

Speaker 1 You can try. I try a lot, but they don't listen to you anymore.

Speaker 5 So I feel like now there's going to be more UFO scares, more UFO information.

Speaker 1 That's good.

Speaker 1 Maybe aliens will come down.

Speaker 1 I'm kind of in favor of the Navy

Speaker 1 disciplining pilots for reporting fake UFO sightings.

Speaker 1 Call me old-fashioned, but

Speaker 1 that could trigger a national security emergency, couldn't it? If you're just like some pilot that's

Speaker 1 flying your F-18 off the coast of Seattle and you're like, hey, it's a UFO, and then NORAD scrambles, and it turns out the pilot's just hallucinating. Right.
Yeah, that would make sense.

Speaker 1 I feel like there's probably going to be a lot of alerts, but I'm okay. For that, yeah.
We do need some more UFO sightings. I feel like it's been pretty much just like Siberia.

Speaker 1 They'll do the dashboard cam of the UFO. We need some more of that in SpaceX.

Speaker 1 That was it? Cool drone? Yeah. Those are two.
PFT. Okay, my hot seat is Avengers.

Speaker 1 No spoilers.

Speaker 1 No spoilers. The Avengers are on the hot seat, though, because the Sonic the Hedgehog trailer was just released, and it looks incredible.
It's got teeth.

Speaker 1 It It is going to be the movie event of the millennium, I'm very confident in saying. So people are really mad because Sonic looks really scrawny and lanky instead of the jacked-up Sonic that we all.

Speaker 1 Do we ever decide if Tails is a girl or a boy? No, I think we just decided it would be best to leave that question unanswered. He's hot as fuck.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no matter what it is. Right.
It's a little thick, got that bushy tail. That just looks so cute.
Little Tails. Yeah, the old Sonic used to be like Darren Sprolls.
What was Red Sonic again?

Speaker 1 Knuckles. Knuckles.
Yeah, Sonic and Knuckles. So yeah, Sonic is back.
They should actually have KD play Sonic. That would be good.
Because Sonic's a ring chaser. Yes.
That's literally what he does.

Speaker 1 Yes, that's true.

Speaker 1 My also hot seat of the week is the Earth.

Speaker 1 Because NASA is planning a simulation of an asteroid. They're also saying that we're way overdue for an asteroid collision.
So this week there's an account that's...

Speaker 1 Wait, wait, wait, we're going to deal with aliens and asteroids. And NASA, yeah, we're going to fight this war on two for...

Speaker 1 Well, all the UFOs, those are just basically Elon Musk launching cars into the sky.

Speaker 1 But we are overdue for a collision, and they're going to be doing a live simulation of an asteroid, impending asteroid collision with the Earth this week.

Speaker 1 There's like an account out there, a Twitter account that's going to do the play-by-play for it. Can I just throw this out there? An asteroid hitting Earth? Not that bad.

Speaker 1 Like, I wouldn't mind if the Earth just, that's how we ended. It'd be pretty badass.
Like, I don't like a Michael Bay movie.

Speaker 1 Thinking about what the alternative is, is just cooking ourselves alive in the next 200 years.

Speaker 1 Asteroid, not that bad. Not that bad.
Thanks, Ahead. Thank you.

Speaker 1 I actually, I'm kind of pro-asteroid in that respect.

Speaker 1 As long as it does the job.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't want an asteroid hitting us, and then we have to deal with a nuclear fallout and bullshit, and all we have to do is eat Twinkies and fight off cockroaches, all that shit, cockroach.

Speaker 1 I just want the asteroid to hit us. Boom, done.
You know,

Speaker 1 I kind kind of agree with you on that take because if it wipes out half the populations, that's a lot of funerals that the living are going to have to go to. A lot of sadness.
It's a mess.

Speaker 1 We won't have cable for a while. There's a lot of things.
The direct TV

Speaker 1 satellites

Speaker 1 that you would be trying to watch football. Right.
And it would just pause and say, oh, there must be a storm in your area. No, it's an asteroid that slacked off and didn't finish the job.

Speaker 1 That can't close. Yeah, I'm being serious.
Like, if I was, if you threw it out there, you're like, all right, asteroid hits Earth, you get to survive, but you don't get cable for the next five years.

Speaker 1 I'd be like, nope, no deal. Just take it all out.

Speaker 1 You know what, though? If it wiped out all the bookies.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah, that's the other thing. You don't have to pay your bookies.
Go back to zero. But, of course, with my luck, I'd be up that week.
Yeah. Yeah.
For once. My cool throne is decibel truthers.

Speaker 1 So it is playoff time. That means that people are going to arenas and cheering very loudly, and the scoreboards are showing exactly how many decibels the noise level is reaching in the arenas.

Speaker 1 And every year it seems they go up.

Speaker 1 it's like the radar gun in baseball it's like oh now people are throwing 103 miles an hour now decibels are decibels are reaching 140 and that's just impossible to do and a lot of people have started to download their own decibel readers on their phones going to games comparing them against what the scoreboard's showing and guess what turns out it's like 30 decibels quieter than they're showing.

Speaker 1 They also pump in for the NBA and the Seahawks. No, yeah, but the Seahawks will.
But I'm saying like they legally pump it in in basketball arenas.

Speaker 1 I get the feeling that hockey arenas are actually much louder than basketball arenas. It bounces off the iceberg.
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 Like, that's why the hardwood floors kind of hurts that, but whatever. No, but I do believe that on the Titanic, the band played on the deck, right? Yep.

Speaker 1 Because it was like a natural amphitheater bouncing off all the icebergs out there. That's why it was.
It was actually the first stereo ever. That was like their Fire Fest, music festival.

Speaker 1 My other cool throne is Game of Thrones cinematographers because everybody was asking them what the deal with the last episode being very difficult to watch was. And they said, guess what?

Speaker 1 It's because people don't know how to adjust their TVs. It's not on us.
So it's on everybody in America that did not properly calibrate their TVs to a very specific Game of Thrones line.

Speaker 1 It was too dark. Yeah.
It was too dark.

Speaker 1 It was just too dark. It was way too dark.
I also think that they might have been in bed with some TV companies because I bet a lot of people ordered new TV

Speaker 1 during the episode, thinking that it was their TV that was screwed. So stay woke on that.
Yes. All right, my hot seats.
Tails is a dude, by the way. What? Tails is a dude.
That's fine.

Speaker 1 I'm still standing by. I'm sexually attracted to Tails.
I'm not hot as fuck.

Speaker 1 If that was me, like, finally coming to

Speaker 1 acknowledgement of who I am. Yeah.
Where does that put us on the Kinsey scale if we're attracted to a male video game character? Yeah.

Speaker 1 not that's not a human tails really is a dude i feel like mint candy tinkering with machines wait what how the do they know what tails likes mint candy despite overcoming most of his fears and becoming very bold tails also has a fear of lightning oh yeah me too he's like a he's like give him a cbd dog treat he'll be fine that's what tails should chase a little a little uh a weighted blanket cbd sausages imagine if it was imagine if they did the sonic movie and and tails was just a big pussy in a weighted blanket the whole time Can't go outside.

Speaker 1 Dude. 30% chance of rain.
Listen, you can say what you want about the most. Oh, yeah, you bought a weighted blanket.
I bought a weighted blanket. The knockoff that's going to kill you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the one that's filled with lead. It's going to give you lead poisoning.
Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 It feels exactly like what they put on you when you get an x-ray. Yeah, Bruce Arians almost won a Super Bowl as a head coach.

Speaker 1 And he drank a lot of lead. Lead paint.
Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 So, all right, my hot seats is

Speaker 1 the pile. So the pile is dead.
We are moving offices. If you you followed anything, Barstool Headquarters is moving down the street.
We have a new office. But today,

Speaker 1 the team went through the pile. We found a lot of hilarious things.
We're going to be doing an auction

Speaker 1 for charity of a lot of the items. But it was like a time capsule of the last three years.
Just weird stuff. random stuff, skyline chili,

Speaker 1 Jeff Fisher, mustaches, Jared Goff's calendar for senior season at Cal. The pile is no more.

Speaker 1 It was interesting diving through it because it's like when archaeologists go into the earth and they go down levels and down levels, and the farther down you go is how long ago it was.

Speaker 1 It gets older and older. And so at the bottom of the pile, it was like a bunch of Harambe 69 jerseys.
Right. It was like, damn, it was like

Speaker 1 a very long time. Also, shout out the person who sent us something that was very perishable and it was sent in 2016.
That was a really weird package to open. Did you see that?

Speaker 1 It was very gross. You just, you opened it, you smelled it,

Speaker 1 and and then you handed it to Spider. You said, Spider, get rid of it.

Speaker 1 And then Spider immediately smells it too. It was bad.
It was something wet, and it had been wet for three years. Just think about that.
My cool throne, I got two.

Speaker 1 The Warriors, the good Chemistry Warriors, are on the cool throne because Guy Fieri is cooking a meal for Kevin Durant to keep him in golden state. An inspiration meal for Kevin Durant to see.

Speaker 1 I don't know if that's going to work for Kevin Durant. I think it's just extra donkey sauce.
He's, yeah, just a big vat of donkey sauce. Kevin Durant is,

Speaker 1 I wouldn't call him a big eater. That's okay.
He's just, he's all, you know, he's not about very sinewy. It's not food, it's about the sodium that gets you addicted when it comes to Guy Fieri.

Speaker 1 Okay, well, I mean, maybe he could use some more donkey sauce to pack on some of those pounds. Either way, he's staying

Speaker 1 because of Guy Fieri. Our other cool drone is us because Christianology is hurt.
Shame.

Speaker 1 He is a 10-to-1, he's not the favorite, but his eyes are 10-to-1-to-1. Either way, we love him, so we hope he gets better.
It's just a shame. Yeah.
No,

Speaker 1 I hope that he sets all kinds of records this season, hits 80 home runs, and he is

Speaker 1 smart all-star game. And he's smart about it and doesn't risk re-injury.

Speaker 1 Now you know, like, Christian, look, your back, as someone who's had back injuries, you don't want to add anything to the plate here. Well, food-wise, you can, but otherwise, don't.

Speaker 1 So, all-star game, out. Don't do it.
My neck, my back. I'm not licking big cats crack.
Yeah, so don't do it.

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Speaker 1 Jewel, okay, here he is, Kirk Goldsbury.

Speaker 1 Okay, we now welcome on probably one of the smartest guests we're ever going to have. It's Kirk Goldsbury.

Speaker 1 He was the VP of strategic research for the Spurs, the lead analyst for Team USA, and he has a new book out. It's called Sprawl Ball, a visual tour of the new era of the NBA.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the show, Kirk. You're a nerd.

Speaker 2 Thank you. I am, and this is an honor.
I am an award-winning listener myself. Let's go.

Speaker 1 Let's go. Yeah, I'm just going to go.
You also left out the Harvard guy thing. Oh,

Speaker 1 I mean, we got to throw in Harvard too. I didn't do enough?

Speaker 2 Well, mostly. I have not done anything, but

Speaker 1 no. Okay, so you have a new book out.
It's today. You are a nerd, though.
Sprawlball. Okay, yeah, cool.

Speaker 1 So the new book, so for layman's term, you were basically you got your degree in data visualization. If you've seen, you probably have seen Kirk's work.

Speaker 1 You've seen the cool maps of how guys shoot and where they're efficient in the NBA,

Speaker 1 and you created those. You worked for Grantland, you work for ESPN now, and your book is out, and basically talking about the evolution of the NBA and where we're at.

Speaker 1 We're fucked, is what I understand. You basically are like the climate change guy for the NBA.
That's perfect. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm the climate change guy. I'm the guy going to Glacier National Park and be like, do you guys like these glaciers? Because they're not going to be here in 10 years.

Speaker 2 I'm not complaining much about the state of the NBA right now. I actually think it's good, but the trends are so alarming.
Where we're going, dude, I'm not a big fan of where that is.

Speaker 2 If you like the landing area foul, you're going to love the future of basketball.

Speaker 1 Okay, so yeah, 20, 30 years from now, what is the worst case scenario? What's the doomsday scenario for the NBA?

Speaker 2 There are no ice caps left, and we're all dead.

Speaker 1 Okay, so it's the same as in real life.

Speaker 2 Bostner has a boat floating around, and he's trying to save people.

Speaker 2 James Harden is, no.

Speaker 2 No, in all seriousness, seriousness, it's three-point shooting, three-point shooting, three-point shooting, and not much else besides the layups and dunks and free throws.

Speaker 2 And that to me isn't great. Like, I love Dirk Nowitzki, I love Michael Jordan.
When I picture those guys shooting, I think of them shooting what would now be labeled a stupid shot.

Speaker 2 And I don't want to believe that those guys were stupid shooters.

Speaker 2 And so I want to sort of figure out ways that the league can use analytics to create the best sport possible.

Speaker 1 So explain to us how we got here, like what the evolution of the NBA.

Speaker 1 You know, there's been rule changes as we've gone along but i i read the stat that you had it that's in your book in 2018 19 so this year there was 27 000 almost 28 000 three-point shots that's almost uh 4 000 more than all of 1980s yeah that's insane it's insane and people don't because it because big cat it went like kind of gradually man it was like frog and boiling water sort of situation it was year over year over year it's like a melting ice cap but there's two things that i would point to sort of legislatively that engineered what we're watching out there.

Speaker 2 Number one is the three-point line itself, which was introduced in 1979. It's 40 years old.
Like a lot of us, it's having a midlife crisis.

Speaker 2 And then the second one is in 2004, after the Pistons beat Kobe and the Lakers, what does the NBA do?

Speaker 2 They make defense illegal, essentially, by outlawing hand-checking and defensive three seconds. So that opened up the game a lot for guards.
Steve Nash is suddenly an MVP after that.

Speaker 2 And now these guys are running wild, creating three-point shots all over the court.

Speaker 1 Okay, so

Speaker 1 we're going to get to the background of what you've done with the league and your various jobs, but I'm just going to throw this out there. Are you a

Speaker 1 spy sent out by Pop to try to ruin the Houston Rockets? No comment. Okay.

Speaker 1 That's a theory that we've been working on for a while. That makes sense, right? Pop has spies, though.
Psyops. Yes.

Speaker 2 We call them psyops.

Speaker 1 It actually does bring up an interesting point because, you know, you were, what was your title for the Spurs?

Speaker 1 Vice President of strategic research that's a fucking spy name right so stupid yeah that's a spy name so how how did you go about getting that job was pop reluctant at first to uh to listen to what you had to say or you go you come in the door and all of a sudden they're you know you're a valuable member of that team well that's a great question you guys know Ernie Adams the Patrick the Patriots guy Ernie Adams

Speaker 1 does right stripes shout out to the Pats

Speaker 2 I stole my title from him. He was like, he's like something of research at the Pats.
I was like, oh, that sounds cool. I want that Ernie Adams kind of thing.
So that's how the title came.

Speaker 2 But yeah, I loved working with Pop, and the chance to do that was obviously, I couldn't turn that down.

Speaker 2 It was right when ESPN killed Grantland, and I was like, I don't like this company right now.

Speaker 1 That was double birds he just gave to me. Well,

Speaker 1 you were symbolizing ESPN. I was spreading it around.

Speaker 2 I was spreading it around.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 But yeah, like, of course, I'm going to work. And Pop is who he is because he's super open-minded, man.

Speaker 2 And so he's not head over heels in love with analytics, but he's open to some of the insights that it can anything that can get an edge.

Speaker 1 Did he ever take you out for a nice wine dinner where he spent $20,000 on Vino?

Speaker 2 No comment. We had some really nice times together.

Speaker 1 I've heard he's quite good. He's a good one here in this city.

Speaker 2 Nice restaurants that I could never go to that he showed us. And that's part of him as a leader and as a guy that people love is like he shows you these things.

Speaker 1 So I'm always curious. Analytics obviously has been, there's kind of been an explosion of it in all sports in the last 20 years.

Speaker 1 If you are someone who is in the front office that's working on data and analytics, how does the chain of command go when you find something like, aha, this is something we need to implement?

Speaker 1 Do you tell pop? Do you tell specific players? Do people listen to you?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, people at the Spurs, it's like a really functional organization for the most part. So people are open-minded and listening.
And, you know, if you see something, you say something.

Speaker 2 And it depends on who it is. I mean, I didn't talk to the players very much about analytics.
I had my coaches. Some of the assistant coaches are really sort of wonky and nerdy.
Some are not.

Speaker 2 And then some of the players are the same, I know. And then my relationship was mostly with the front office.

Speaker 2 So helping them with draft, helping them with free agency, helping them with personnel decisions and in-game strategy.

Speaker 1 Is there one guy that you can remember where you were like, this is something, you know, I think everyone loves like the money ball, you know, analogy where it's like, oh, they got these guys that no one liked, but they can walk in.

Speaker 1 Market inefficient.

Speaker 1 Did you have one of those guys where you're like, I saw him, something in him that no one else saw?

Speaker 2 Well, it's funny. It wasn't something that nobody else saw, but I saw Bryn Forbes and we did a bunch of shooting number evaluations and he was undrafted out of Michigan State.

Speaker 2 Player had no business playing in the NBA for most people. Most people didn't think twice about him.

Speaker 2 We got him on draft night, undrafted, in part because we thought he was a really, really special shooter.

Speaker 2 And at that value, yeah, now he's starting games for the Spurs a few years later, so that's really cool because undrafted guys usually don't smell the league.

Speaker 1 One of the most interesting parts of the book I thought was when you dove into how teams can change the lines on their own home courts, like as a possible way to kind of like get around some of the stuff that's been happening recently.

Speaker 1 You're a big advocate of making the three-point line farther out on the wings, right? Yeah. As it gets closer to the sidelines.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, and I think there's a bunch of stuff we can do, man. I think

Speaker 2 drawing the home court lines is controversial. People think it's either the stupidest thing I've ever said or the most brilliant.
But I think it would be fun. And sports are supposed to be fun.

Speaker 2 And I like to go to Fenway Park and look at this giant green monster and be like, wow, that's wild. Like, let's see how baseball looks here.

Speaker 2 And then you go to Wrigley and it's got the ivy and the brick and the dimensions. And it's fun.
And why doesn't basketball have something like that?

Speaker 2 Imagine if the Heat could draw their own line or the Warriors are playing at home and they have one line. Then they go to Houston and there's a different line.

Speaker 2 And the players are, they have to calibrate. They have to strategize.
And it gives a home field advantage. It's fun for the fans.

Speaker 2 So I think that would be interesting because right now, dudes, the shot is too easy for too many guys, and the shooters are too comfortable, despite the landing area controversy.

Speaker 2 They're still very comfortable out there. And if you try to play post-up ball, you get bullied, and it's more like rugby, dude.

Speaker 2 But the shooters are so delicate. Let's make their lives a little harder, whether that's making the line further away, making it less consistent, arena to arena.

Speaker 2 Let's make it a little harder for these guys.

Speaker 1 So I had an idea for you because you have those fixes where teams could draw their own lines or possibly setting up where it's just two feet back or eliminating the corner three.

Speaker 1 What if we did two and a half points?

Speaker 2 People aren't really good with decimals.

Speaker 1 I know,

Speaker 1 no, but here's the thing: yeah, we have a problem with math education in America. Now we're solving two problems.

Speaker 2 I love teaching, as you referenced, I love teaching students, and I think that would be a really powerful way, in all seriousness, to help young people learn math. Yes.

Speaker 2 And basketball has helped me learn math. It's helped a lot of young people learn math.
So I don't think it's to be scoffed at. But yeah, it's funny.

Speaker 2 The thing about the denominations of two and three, it's super influential. Like if it was three and four, all of these margins would be wildly different.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 And so, yeah, exploring that, I think, is worth doing.

Speaker 1 We got into it with Baron Davis when Baron was on the podcast. I brought up your idea.

Speaker 1 You're a big proponent of when you play pickup hoops to play by twos and threes instead of ones and twos because the difference between one and two is so much different than like a two and a three.

Speaker 1 I don't think you really understood where we were coming from. No, he did.
But it makes sense, right? It stands to reason that you're putting way more value if it's worth twice as much.

Speaker 2 Yeah, first of all, anybody who plays ones and twos in their pickup game at home, they're a monster, man. You can't do that.

Speaker 2 It's ridiculous. It's bastardizing the game and the economics of the game.
You should be shooting twos the whole game if you're playing ones and twos.

Speaker 2 It's just ridiculously, unless you're a terrible shooter like I am.

Speaker 1 There's very, yeah.

Speaker 2 So ones and twos is a travesty, and it just encourages terrible shooters like me to shoot twos or threes over and over and over.

Speaker 1 So huck them up, yeah. All right, so tell me how James Harden has ruined the NBA because he has.
Oh, man.

Speaker 1 That's really what it comes down to. Like, your whole entire book, James Harden and what the Rockets are doing.
And I'm a die-hard Warriors fan, been since Monday.

Speaker 1 James Harden, though, and

Speaker 1 the style that the Rockets run, because I think when you think threes, you think Steph Curry, right? But the Warriors still run an intricate offense, and it's beautiful.

Speaker 1 It's ball movement, it's picks, it's off ball movement and screens and everything. The Rockets literally just run James Harden at the top of key, four guys standing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Zach Lowe calls it mathball. Pablo Torre says he plays basketball like a tax attorney.
I think these are both sort of fair segs, but you know, they deserve a lot of credit.

Speaker 2 Before I'll throw shade, just let me say shade. No, that's fair.

Speaker 2 He deserves a lot of credit for being the most analytically correct player our league has ever seen. He's super smart.
He's super savvy, like a tax attorney. The shots he takes are the right ones.

Speaker 2 The shots he doesn't take are the wrong ones.

Speaker 2 But the logical extension of that into this sort of gimmicky, I want to get to the line too much, this landing area crap,

Speaker 2 It's not fun. And I think people get mad, big cat, because it's like not within the spirit of the game.
It's the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law. And the Rockets are correct in a way.

Speaker 1 Like, by the letter of the law, these should be three-shot fouls.

Speaker 2 But by the spirit of the law, it's not like no basketball dude I know is like, yep, got to send him to the line every time if he jumps into these landing zones that, you know, Sean Livingston already occupies.

Speaker 1 Right. And it's also, I mean, you know, the Spurs were a similar way where the ball movement, everyone touching the ball, that's when basketball is at its prettiest.
Yes.

Speaker 1 When the Rockets are playing, there literally are four guys just standing still, and Kevin Durant's almost like a quarterback throwing the ball to like, you know, he makes,

Speaker 1 the pick happens at the top. He runs to the lane, and then he just passes to someone.
It's like, it's almost

Speaker 1 every single possession is predetermined to do the exact same thing, either a layup or a three-pointer.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and it's not for me as an analyst to determine what beauty is, but I've I've heard a lot of people echo that sentiment, you know, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of beholders right now that don't like love the Houston Rocket aesthetic.

Speaker 2 And again, I think we have an opportunity, a really exciting opportunity to use analytics instead of like how Michael Lewis prescribed us to fix the Oakland A's batting order or pitching rotation or whatever, to apply it to the rules themselves.

Speaker 2 How can we optimize the game? If we want to see player movement, if we want to see diverse tactics and shot selection, we can make that happen. Let's explore some things.

Speaker 2 The contact allowances, the game is really soft on the perimeter and really hardcore on the interior like i think we could smooth that out a little bit like if if lamarcus and carl anthony towns can get clobbered in the post then clay thompson can get a little bit more physical behavior in the on the in the spot up area um so hand checking is something that should be evaluated moving the line um

Speaker 1 allowing goaltending on threes is probably the biggest stoner ideos i have yeah that's crazy so you know there's they're just let's make it fun dudes yeah it could be really fun yeah i i will endorse this book as my official father's day pick for a gift this year especially if your dad's dad's like my dad and won't shut up about George Miken and how great he was.

Speaker 1 You talk a lot about like George Miken. He was a great defensive player, but he just goaltended so much that they had to change.
It was legal. He should have.

Speaker 2 Why shouldn't he have?

Speaker 2 But Miken is interesting too, PFT, because he went from the best, first superstar in the league as a big man to the guy who ended up sending the death letter for the big man because he was the one as a commissioner of the ABA that introduced the three-point line, which essentially killed the center position.

Speaker 2 Poetic.

Speaker 1 Poetic.

Speaker 2 Yes. So fathers who like poetry, they like George Miken.
But if you also hate James Harden, this is the book for you.

Speaker 1 Okay. I have a question about the book.
And through all your research, who has the most unusual heat map?

Speaker 2 You really sprung that one on me, man.

Speaker 1 You should know the answer to this.

Speaker 2 Well, it depends on what you mean by unusual.

Speaker 1 Which one looks fucked up like an

Speaker 1 asymmetrical Rorschach test?

Speaker 2 Well, the most asymmetric guys in the league are like LaMarcus Aldridge, who posts up almost exclusively on the left side of the court.

Speaker 2 So he's always got this huge activity where he's like the leading scorer from one side of the court on the left block, and then on the right block, he's much less active.

Speaker 2 So if asymmetry makes it a weird thing, then I would say LaMarcus. I mean, other guys are like really weird in terms of their shot selection and their patterns.

Speaker 2 But what's, you know, Hardin is interesting because if you just look at his shot chart, he's a pretty average scorer.

Speaker 2 But the free throw, man.

Speaker 2 The best place to score on the basketball court is the free throw line, guys. And he's drawing more fouls than anybody in the league and led the league in free throws six of the last seven years.

Speaker 2 And that's where he really gets his efficiency.

Speaker 1 How much, so you've done a bunch of stuff. Obviously, this book is the thing that's out right now, but you obviously were writing for Grantland.

Speaker 1 You've been talking about the evolution of players and all kinds of weird things that maybe the casual fan doesn't see. You wrote something about Kobe misses being basically the Kobe assist.

Speaker 1 How much did Kobe pay you to write that? The premise was that Kobe misses are actually a good thing. So Kirk found the only bad thing in Kobe's game and made it a positive.

Speaker 2 You know, that ring he got, Vanessa? Yes.

Speaker 1 I got one of those. I mean, it was an insane.

Speaker 1 I read it. I remember reading it at the time, and I was like, what is going on? This guy's basically saying Kobe, when he misses, is actually good.

Speaker 2 So that was me just trolling the state of basketball analytics in one of my first essays for Grantland saying, like,

Speaker 2 you can't sort of separate all these events. We can't pretend basketball is baseball.

Speaker 2 Like, when Kobe draws a bunch of defensive attention and bricks a shot, and it's a triple team, Kobe's Kobe's a good shot.

Speaker 2 If Lamar Odom and Pyle Gasal is nearby to clean up the mess, that's actually not a terrible shot.

Speaker 2 So like you've got to connect these events and people, and he had an offense, like Harden does this now too.

Speaker 2 If he misses a shot in the paint, the Rockets almost always get the rebound because he's drawn so much attention. Interesting.
And so you can't just look at field goal percentage and say, hey, man.

Speaker 2 So the Kobe assist was like... Because he didn't get a lot of traditional assists.
Right. The Kobe assist was a nice way.
It was great.

Speaker 1 It was the greatest article ever. I remember reading it being like, what? I had a theory.

Speaker 1 I had a similar theory about Deli a couple years ago that his shots were so unusual that they would bounce off weird parts of the basket in the rim that it would more often than not lead to an offensive rebound just because the players that were set up traditionally to get it would be out of position.

Speaker 2 The ricochets were so violent.

Speaker 2 It was like the opposites of the, they're similar to the dead spots in the old Boston Garden where the Celtics knew where not to dribble because the ball would just die on the floor.

Speaker 2 But yeah, if you're rebounding for Deli for a year, you know that that's like a 13-foot rebound.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's coming out

Speaker 2 very violently.

Speaker 1 Right. That's really interesting.

Speaker 1 So the other interesting part about your book and where the NBA is going is the superstar, probably the MVP this year, Giannis, is kind of contradictory to that because he's now scoring like old school Shaq

Speaker 1 and not shooting threes. But then the team just basically built a three-point shooting team around him.
him. So it's essentially the reverse of James Harden.
Am I getting that right? You got it.

Speaker 2 You know, pardon my take here, but it's like LeBron did it first. So LeBron was the most ferocious interior scorer of the decade.
And he also led the league in three-point assists.

Speaker 2 That's why Decker did it first.

Speaker 1 It's a magic team. Yeah, he was really good.

Speaker 2 But what I'm saying with Giannis and LeBron is

Speaker 2 Giannis was fourth in the league in three-point assists this year. To your point, they build a three-point shooting team around him, and that's what's really put this team over the top.

Speaker 2 Maybe over the top of Hank Celtics. We'll see.
But, you know, LeBron was the first one to do that. He dominated the game from the interior.
And people are like, oh, he doesn't shoot threes.

Speaker 2 He doesn't fit in. But he leads the league in three-point assists this decade.
He's created more threes for his teammates than any other player. So he's actually been part of the story as well.

Speaker 2 And Giannis, I think, is close to do that. And then the second point there is that, yeah, the best shot on the court is still a dunk.
Right.

Speaker 2 To your point, he's playing like Shaq. He's getting more dunks than anybody.
So why would I shoot threes if I can dunk it so much?

Speaker 2 And so between the three-point shooting that his teammates are getting because he's pressuring the rim so much and his own interior prowess, they're a very moneyball-aligned team.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's funny. They're just doing it a reverse way because you have everyone shooting threes now and then the best player in the NBA, or at least the regular season, is the opposite of that.

Speaker 2 And Slim Dunks are still awesome, and that's why Giannis is my favorite player to watch because the dunk is still way better than the three-point make, in my opinion.

Speaker 1 Disagree. Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 When you get wet from three? I agree that a dunk's better. Big cat's never dunked before, so he doesn't get it.
Guys like me and you that have been above the rim, we understand the allure.

Speaker 2 Man, that dunk you had a couple weeks ago.

Speaker 1 He was there.

Speaker 1 You saw me dunk one time in Austin, right?

Speaker 2 How did you get it between the legs? Yeah.

Speaker 1 It was incredible. That was a layup when I went to the next one.
When he was a list.

Speaker 2 He was played pickup down in Austin. That's right.

Speaker 1 It was funny. Do you play basketball at PFT? Yeah, he's really good.
Really bad. Yeah, pretty good.

Speaker 2 The dunks are just

Speaker 1 the price of a mission. So we used to watch basketball together sometimes.
Yeah. And it was...

Speaker 1 Before you sold out.

Speaker 1 Way before I sold my account and definitely before I sold out.

Speaker 1 But what I always wondered about you when you're watching a game on TV like that, how much of it are you watching and just being like, this is awesome, versus how much are you watching and like all the numbers are running through your head?

Speaker 2 I've been poisoned by my own research.

Speaker 2 I watch it and I'm like, you know, the beautiful mind guy and the number goes through my head and it's terrible. That's what I thought.
I can't enjoy it as much as I used to.

Speaker 2 That's why I like to watch other sports like college football or pro football or baseball because I'm like, I'm just watching it again.

Speaker 1 Are you going to bring your nerd powers to those sports? No.

Speaker 2 Never? No, I don't think so.

Speaker 2 Maybe football. We might do something with football, but I think, what do you guys think?

Speaker 1 Football doesn't make sense. Football right now.

Speaker 1 Well, football, you could do an entire book that just says run the ball and play defense.

Speaker 2 So, the Giants draft, I wanted to ask you about this. They obviously have some models there that are really advanced.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 really advanced big math guy. He's called Archie Manning.

Speaker 2 Gettleman Analytics is.

Speaker 1 He's like, this guy is 6'4,

Speaker 1 and the pantone of his skin is like Eli Manning after a long winter where he hasn't taken off his shirt.

Speaker 1 And this other guy is exactly like the guy that we traded for a fifth-round pick, and also stopping the run is not like no one's running anymore, so stopping the run isn't that important.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and you guys also, you know, you found, you scratched the surface on, it seems like the Broncos have some good analytics when it comes to identifying.

Speaker 1 Tall guys, basically, John Elway being like, I want a guy that's as much like me in my worst seasons as possible. So they don't need me, man.
You got to figure out. NFL's smart.

Speaker 1 They're filled with the best. You gotta all of this.

Speaker 1 Is Jimmy Butler a top 20 player?

Speaker 2 He's right on the edge there. I think Jimmy Butler's a very good player.

Speaker 1 What about James Butler?

Speaker 2 I think in this situation, I don't think we're getting a lot of Jimmy Butler value, although he played really well last night.

Speaker 1 He did.

Speaker 2 But in a lineup with all that scoring that they already have, I don't know.

Speaker 1 The Sixers have a shitload of pieces that don't fit. Right.
Nothing. Agree.
It's crazy.

Speaker 2 It's so good that they might still go all the way to the finals. Who knows? But yeah, I don't love the geometry of the Sixers as they assemble together.

Speaker 1 So explain that a little bit more for dumb people like myself.

Speaker 2 Well, some guys get value because they're on the ball a lot. Like Ben Simmons needs the ball to be valuable.
So does Jimmy Butler. They're not great off-ball players.

Speaker 2 Joel Embiid, pretty good on the ball, too. So, you know, when they had Sarge and Covington, I thought they had really good, low-usage guys who could space the floor and open it up for Ben or Embiid.

Speaker 2 And you bring in Butler, who doesn't shoot threes, although last night he shot 10 threes, which was a big thing for the Phillies fans or the Sixers fans.

Speaker 2 So, you know, I don't know when you pay a guy that much money, you got to make sure, you know, you're putting him in the right situation to thrive.

Speaker 2 And this is a guy who likes to create his own shot on the ball. And they have a lot of those guys, to your point.

Speaker 1 So, Ben Simmons, using what you've seen over the years of like how players have developed developed their outside jump shot after their rookie season,

Speaker 1 is there a possibility that he becomes an average three-point shooter at some point in the score? For sure.

Speaker 2 That's a great question.

Speaker 2 And, you know, he could use his clutch roommate LeBron as a model because LeBron was a terrible jump shooter his rookie year, arguably the least efficient scorer or jump shooter in the league in his first year in the league and became competent.

Speaker 2 Nobody's going to be like, LeBron's great. He had a couple of really good years shooting the ball.
But like Giannis,

Speaker 2 Simmons could really pattern some of his pathway to efficiency after LeBron, pressuring the rim. And he's such a good passer.

Speaker 2 But to Big Cat's point, I'm not sure the Sixers are putting him in the right position to succeed because what Milwaukee did to have this awakening was get out of the way, man.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 So you're saying basically the Sixers need to create Milwaukee, but with Ben Simmons as the Giannis role.

Speaker 2 I think that's the way that Ben becomes the biggest, best version of himself. I'm not sitting here saying with Joel Embiid, they should do that.

Speaker 2 But if you're asking me, how does Ben Simmons become a superstar, that's the kind of environment I would say.

Speaker 1 Or you could do it with Joel Embiid, right? Like you could theoretically do the Joel Mbiat as the Giannis role, right? Both of them makes no sense.

Speaker 2 I kind of agree, but Philly's doing pretty well without my advice.

Speaker 1 So you need to be hired by the Sixers and clean that shit up.

Speaker 2 They actually have the largest analytics department. Some of my old students from Harvard are in that department.
So they don't need me, man. Oh, you went to the house.
They got some of my approaches.

Speaker 2 No, I just taught there.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. Nice flex.
Nice flex.

Speaker 1 I didn't pay to go to Harvard.

Speaker 2 Harvard paid me to go.

Speaker 1 To quote our good friend who we actually are not friends with. We don't even know him and he's kind of a dick to us, Colin Coward.
What about Manalytics?

Speaker 2 Oh, man. So I did a great hit with Colin a couple weeks ago, and he asked me about Manalytics.

Speaker 1 Oh, forget it then.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. Go ahead.
Go ahead. Manalytics.

Speaker 1 We are Manalytics.

Speaker 1 One of those things that Coward obviously talks about and we joke about, but I definitely agree that when you take it too far with the spreadsheets, you end up with a team that makes no sense.

Speaker 2 And I reject the premise.

Speaker 2 A competent competent organization knows there's human beings at the center of it and knows how to sort of coach them and and create an environment that sort of celebrates these humans and doesn't you know make them do things or program them with numbers so i sort of reject the premise there that you can it's either one or the other i think the best organizations balance sort of that analytical reasoning with old-fashioned human communication when do you put an arm around a guy and and yell at him or when do you when do you coach him up and how do you talk to a guy and introduce an idea to him um and i think that's one thing that coach pop is really good at is just that empathy.

Speaker 2 He knows when to

Speaker 2 yell at a guy and get into him, but it's all based on the fact that people trust him and know that he's coming from a good place. And he doesn't overwhelm them with numbers.

Speaker 2 I mean, yeah, you can take this stuff too far, but it's just, you know, knowing when not to do that is a big part of it. Right.
As Collins already knows. I mean, Colin.

Speaker 1 He knows this stuff. No, I mean, this is the interesting part of sports to me.

Speaker 1 Obviously, all the advanced analytics have been incredible to watch the evolution of sports, but at the end of the day, you still need guys that like each other and can trust each other and get along.

Speaker 1 And like, locker room chemistry matters a lot. Oh, no, you're right.

Speaker 2 And that's one of the things, one of the things, the themes of this season, and

Speaker 2 Kevin Arnovitz had a good story about it on ESPN a couple weeks ago.

Speaker 2 It's like, this is the season to teams falling apart because of chemistry, whether it was the Lakers after the trade, the Pelicans, the Warriors, the Warriors.

Speaker 1 That's why Rooters are beating the Warriors.

Speaker 2 And even the Celtics, Hank Celtics, to a degree. They've had some bench stuff this year and some barking back and forth.
But yeah, these guys have to love each other to play well together.

Speaker 1 Can you quantify the clutch gene?

Speaker 2 Of course. Yeah, everybody can.

Speaker 1 I don't know what

Speaker 1 you have. We're trying to isolate it.
We're doing punt squares.

Speaker 2 Well, I've mapped every player's genome, as you know, and I've identified the clutch gene.

Speaker 1 23 and me.

Speaker 2 Who's 23?

Speaker 1 Is it LeBron or Jordan?

Speaker 2 I got to go Michael. He was 23 first.

Speaker 2 Do your own thing. Don't copy somebody's number.

Speaker 1 But is there some sort of analytic formula or some way that you look at the game that makes it easier to understand, okay, this guy does play better in certain types of clutch environments?

Speaker 1 Oh, for sure.

Speaker 2 I mean, you know, one of the big differences with the Raptors is they have Kawhi this year, and he's a closer, and we knew that from the years of the Spurs, and he's really good in that.

Speaker 2 And you need people. Kyrie is obviously good, and you can look at the numbers and see his stats.

Speaker 2 And some guys shy away from the moment, like Big Cat's saying, like, sports are human, and that's what's beautiful about it. And some guys are different than others.

Speaker 1 Kawhi's not human, though. He's a robot.
He's the robot that we were talking about earlier at the program. Is that true? Yes.
Well, I mean, you know that.

Speaker 1 You're getting a shock collar right now. From Pop.
From Pop.

Speaker 1 Did you have a formula that would tell you when a player would sit out the second half of a season with a fake quadricep injury?

Speaker 2 Oh, my collar is getting

Speaker 1 totally electric in here, huh?

Speaker 1 I'm a little electric over here. I have a serious question for you.

Speaker 1 All this stuff that you're doing with the pro game, is there a way, or I'll ask it this way, what are the challenges for implementing implementing this type of research and this type of modeling from the program into the college environment?

Speaker 1 No one can shoot in college.

Speaker 1 You can do a heat map and it's just

Speaker 1 one guy.

Speaker 2 But you take into account what they can do and what they can't do. But I think you're on to something like sort of analytical firepower at the university level in college sports is pretty low.

Speaker 2 And I think whether it's college football or college basketball, these programs, I don't think, can replicate the shot strategy, the pros, but you can be smarter about how you're running plays how you're spacing your players out who's getting what what um what plays are being run for who and when um and i don't think that's as prevalent as it should be yeah there's not enough data data too wait is it data or data uh it's both yeah data there's not enough data

Speaker 1 it is interesting that a Big time college program hasn't been like, you know what, we're just going to recruit three-point shooters.

Speaker 1 Like, no team, it doesn't feel like a big-time, big-conference college program to be like, we're just going to throw a bunch of shooters out there because the line's already so much closer and they can hit it and not worry about getting guys that are, you know, center position, normal power forward position.

Speaker 2 No, and I think, like, somebody like UCLA, like, a major team that's sort of in an identity crisis right now, could do something innovative.

Speaker 1 Well, now it's Mick Cronin, so they have an identity, and it's called Never Shoot the Ball, Ever, and play really good defense and flame out in the first round.

Speaker 2 Like your badge. That's their identity.

Speaker 1 Well, that's a different one. The The 35s.
I watched a lot of those 35 and 32. You wouldn't understand that.
It's beautiful. It's efficient, actually.
It's incredible.

Speaker 2 It takes a certain type of basketball.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's horrendous.

Speaker 2 It's horrendous. The buzz cuts.

Speaker 1 It's terrible.

Speaker 1 What was your career from the Spurs out of NBA? Why did you leave?

Speaker 2 It was really hard, dude. It took a lot of my time.
I had to wear suits a lot, and I didn't like that. And I live in Austin, Texas, and I have a really casual lifestyle and was threatening that.

Speaker 1 Okay. That's a great answer.
You sound very lazy. You just want to chill.
That was an Austin. Basically, just want to chill.
Have you ever been to Austin? Yeah, at least I've been there once or twice.

Speaker 2 But yeah, like, you know what it is. You know,

Speaker 2 I love the, I'll probably work for a team again someday, but I honestly, I wanted to get this book out, man.

Speaker 2 This conversation needs to happen with the three-point shot and how it's changing the league. And I saw an opportunity to get it out there and do it.
It's a passion project of mine.

Speaker 2 And it was a hard decision to leave the Spurs, trust me. I think about it every day.

Speaker 1 And it's true because I've heard you say this, and I completely agree that it's not not that the NBA is bad right now. Right.
Because the NBA is great right now.

Speaker 1 Like, the Warriors, I mean, obviously, you can not like the Rockets, but the Warriors play a very exciting style of basketball.

Speaker 1 You've still got a bunch of teams, but in five years, it could be all Rockets.

Speaker 2 It could be too late. I like the climate change guy.
I'm a climate change guy.

Speaker 2 You can still go to Glacier National Park in 1998 and take pictures of glaciers, but you go there two years later, four years later. You know, it's to say, these glaciers are going away, guys.

Speaker 2 Let's at least think about how to conserve it.

Speaker 1 The Jeff Green New Deal and just bring back the mid-range jump shot.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Jeff Green's the guy you think. I think of, honestly, Dirk, right? So Dirk just retired.

Speaker 2 When I picture him shooting a basketball right now, he's got his leg up and he's like 17 feet away from the basket and it's going in. That shot's stupid now.

Speaker 1 What about Carlos Poozer? Maybe get a little flashier.

Speaker 1 He loved his like waxier 18, 20-foot jump shot. Yeah.

Speaker 1 With

Speaker 1 that.

Speaker 2 He looked good doing it, too.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yes.

Speaker 2 No, I don't want to go back to ugly. People are like, oh, you want to go watch the Heat Games with the Knicks and everybody's fighting? Well, I kind of want to watch some of those games.

Speaker 1 I know you want to watch them. But they are kind of horrible when you actually look at them.
Like, they were great.

Speaker 1 90s basketball was great in the time. If you actually go back and look at it, you're like, why is no one shooting any three?

Speaker 2 And I don't want to go any, and the pick and roll covers were moronic.

Speaker 2 I don't want to go backwards, but I think here, the basic thesis, in all seriousness, is we can make an even prettier version of basketball if we think about the rules in a fun way and we can optimize that sort of diversity that makes the sport so special.

Speaker 2 And that's what the point of the book is, really. It's like not to complain about where we are, where we're going, but like, guys, we have an opportunity to make this beautiful.

Speaker 1 You also worked for USA basketball for a while. Yeah.
And you saw a lot of the best players in the world interacting pretty closely, practicing together every single day.

Speaker 1 Were there any practices that had scrimmages like that old dream team one that you hear about? Whereas like Jordan and Magic against Larry Bird and Chris Mullen?

Speaker 1 Actually, Jordan and Magic's team would have kicked the shit out of them. Great question.

Speaker 2 Nothing that iconic, dude. The 2016 team was fun.
It was a lot of young guys,

Speaker 2 and they were really fun to watch.

Speaker 2 Draymond, DeMarcus, Clay, they were really fun to watch together. Nothing that intense, to be honest.

Speaker 2 I don't know if that was just those guys in 92 having these iconic practices, but just to see them get together and Coach K and to be around that was really fun. Yeah, what's Coach Kay like?

Speaker 2 I wanted to hate him, you know. Like, I'm like a lot of people.
I hate a dude growing up.

Speaker 2 But then, like, I know, you know, Hank's fan.

Speaker 1 He's really a big fan. I mean, as he should be.

Speaker 2 As he should be. Graduating there, Matt McCumblaw and everything.

Speaker 1 You liked Coach Kay?

Speaker 2 I wanted to, well, I didn't want to hate him by the time I got the job, but like, yeah, I was thrilled with him. He was really cool.
He was a really, he brought the guy.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 2 And I was like,

Speaker 1 that's why I'll never be a lead data analyst for USA Basketball.

Speaker 2 Well, one of my texts to my friends is like, I think I have to like Duke now coming out of that experience. Because I did love him.
He was a great dude. He taught me a lot.

Speaker 1 What do you even do for like,

Speaker 1 what's the analytics for USA basketball? Just go out there and dunk over everyone?

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, pretty much.

Speaker 2 It's the easiest job in the world.

Speaker 1 I was just going to say, I mean, you're just like, hey, we don't have to worry about it. We're better.

Speaker 2 It was a lot of sort of scout research, like looking at the teams we were playing. Who is this guy?

Speaker 1 Who are their three-points? Turato can't shoot. Argentina's wings can't guard Steph Curry.

Speaker 2 Don't let this one guy shoot. Dunk over this guy.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 have Vince Carter jump over a seven-foot-tall Frenchman.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Barkley can punch this guy.

Speaker 1 All right. So I got one last question.
Seek Geek question. Put in promo code take.
You get $10 off SeatGeek purchase. Who's going to win the NBA Finals this year?

Speaker 1 And should we, as Manalytics guys, be rooting against the Rockets?

Speaker 2 Ooh, as Manalytics guys, let me take a look. Yeah, you should root.
They are violating the spirit of the game. The basketball gods need to descend down and give them

Speaker 1 their karma. I love Daryl.

Speaker 2 He knows that. I don't have to tell anybody how much I love Daryl Maury, but they are violating the spirit of my beloved sport, and the basketball gods will descend down upon them.

Speaker 1 Or David Stern.

Speaker 2 And or, yeah, yeah, no comment on some of these things. But the Warriors are going to win.

Speaker 2 I hate to say it. I'm rooting against them just for the narrative, as they say.

Speaker 2 But they are so good, you guys. They have three of the best shooters in a league that is obsessed with shooting.
They have three of the four or five best in the playoffs on one team.

Speaker 2 And Durant is playing the best basketball he's ever played.

Speaker 2 And it's just not fair because, oh, by the way, they also have Steph Curry, who's an MVP two times over.

Speaker 1 But he might be slightly injured.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and that's true, Ed, coming out of their Clipper series. There were some limping in the Splash Brothers' lower extremities, and so they are kind of vulnerable.

Speaker 1 And you brought up analytics.

Speaker 2 I do sense that they're not sort of all on the same page. Correct.
And I do think a team could come in and shock them.

Speaker 2 And I think whoever comes out of the East will be tried and true and a better team and a more sort of different team than they've had to beat in the finals.

Speaker 1 A little grittier, a little scrappier team. What do you like out of the East? Oof.

Speaker 2 You know, it's hard. I was going to say the Bucs, but then Hank Celtics came in and really had an awesome game one.
I'm not going to back down.

Speaker 2 I still think the Bucs and Raptors are the best teams in the East. And out of that, I think I'll take the Bucs still.
And it'll be really fun if they played them.

Speaker 2 But the Raptors, if they get there, the Sixers, man, whoever gets there will have to have beaten two really good teams, which we don't say in the Eastern Conference playoffs very often.

Speaker 2 So whoever comes out of there, I think, is naturally ready to give the Warriors a fight that they may or may not be ready for. But in the end, guys,

Speaker 1 sorry, Warriors. It's the Warriors.
It's the Warriors. I'm shocked that we've gone this long and we haven't really bashed LeBron James at all.

Speaker 1 How is he not even in the playoffs?

Speaker 1 But from your perspective, how would you fix the Lakers? Is LeBron salvageable at this point?

Speaker 2 No, LeBron is definitely salvageable. They need shooters, man.
I mean, what are we talking about? His best teams have Ray Allen, Mike Miller, like Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving, Kyle Corver.

Speaker 2 And the Lakers put Lance Stevenson in there and he was so stupid.

Speaker 1 When they did that signing, it was like, what is going on?

Speaker 2 And that doesn't give him the space to come in and reign holy hell down in the paint like he does. And it doesn't give him all those three-point assists that I mentioned.

Speaker 2 He's the best in in the world of creating those.

Speaker 2 So, for me, it was a team-building failure. And how do you fix LeBron? You surround him the same way that Cleveland and Miami did.
You don't have to reinvent the wheel here.

Speaker 1 So, who would you go out and get if you were LA?

Speaker 2 Well, that's an interesting question. I mean, the premier, I still think they need a big premier free agent, and it'll be interesting to see if one comes.
Mellow.

Speaker 2 But on the sort of rank-and-file side, yeah, you look at guys who can space the floor and drain, catch, and shoot, and play good defense on the other side. It's not hard.

Speaker 2 And there's going to be a few of them available in free agency.

Speaker 1 Last, last question. And I have one last, last, last question.

Speaker 1 Have you ever looked at the analytics we brought up, Rondo, of, I'm curious when teams play off guys, like Simmons right now, when they play off of them to such an extent that they basically open up the whole, like they can see everywhere?

Speaker 1 Is there a point where playing off someone actually becomes detrimental?

Speaker 2 Yeah, Rondo, great big get. Very proud of you right now because Rondo actually became so good at shooting really open elbow jumpers.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 he yeah and he's such a passer you you keep away uh it's like uh not having a pass rush in football and and when you have a passer like Simmons or Rondo yeah not getting in a passing lane that's a bad idea giving him free rein to see the whole court that's not good so what's like the optimal like place to be a guy who you don't think is you like five feet off yeah I don't have a good answer for you I think it depends on the player like Ben Simmons not surrounded by good shooters so you don't have to worry about those passes to the corners too much there

Speaker 2 Rondo you know when he's in Boston, he was surrounded by such great scorers. You didn't want to let him just, you know, get any pass he wanted.
It's one of those big three dudes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 My very last question. Do I get to ask you guys a question? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 We'll just cut it. What about putting one team outside? What about having the Clippers play outdoors? Always 72 degrees.
You're a big proponent of letting teams draw up their own ballparks.

Speaker 2 Well, I think playing outside, you know, college has played a couple games outside. Oh, yeah.
And the Michigan State Spartans have played on an aircraft carrier. I'd love to see.

Speaker 2 I love the games better when it's outside.

Speaker 2 I grew up playing outside a lot of times.

Speaker 1 Caps, you really can't shoot. Well, it is hard to shoot.
Yeah, that's a big time. Like, I love playing outside too because no one can shoot.
No.

Speaker 2 And the rims usually triple rims and the wind is there. But yeah, and guys get hurt.
So that's the real reason PFT, unless you put a real cord out there.

Speaker 2 But I think there should be one experiment game out there, like the NHL has done for years.

Speaker 1 Why not? That would be fun. I think we can make it safe and warm.

Speaker 2 Are you guys doing the blue checks or not? What do you mean? Are you guys having the blue checks on Twitter right now? I thought you guys were like anti-blue check.

Speaker 1 No, PFT is, I have one. You sold it out.
I had one for like a day. You gave me one, and I don't know.
I had one for a day, and I was like, this doesn't feel right. How did you get rid of it?

Speaker 1 All you have to do, you just change your Twitter handle for half a second and then change it right back, and then it goes away.

Speaker 2 And my last thing for Big Cat is a couple weeks ago, you were talking about how you're like some older guys, you're like one weekend away from having to change your pant size.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, Zion.

Speaker 2 These pants right now, dude. Yeah.
Too much time in New York.

Speaker 1 One bad weekend.

Speaker 2 One bad weekend.

Speaker 1 Come back. It's in the name of a self-help book.
You're going to get home and your wife's going to be like, whoa. Like that.
Because

Speaker 1 you don't notice your face changed, but over three days or four days, whatever you may be, you're like, shit. It's swollen.
Oh, it really do look like the plane.

Speaker 2 I'm prepared for that self-help book. One bad weekend.

Speaker 1 That's not a bad idea. It is.
It really is.

Speaker 1 Everyone's one bad weekend away from pink problems. Do you have any last, last questions?

Speaker 5 Zion. They also emailed me.
They said, just reply to this email, yes, if you want a blue check mark. And I said, no.

Speaker 1 Oh, bad boy.

Speaker 1 I like it. Zion, last, last question.
Zion, good NBA player?

Speaker 2 Oh, he's going to be great. I mean, I'm a little bit worried about his body holding up.
I mean, he does put a lot of torque on those joints. He's a big kid, but

Speaker 1 he can shoot the three a little bit.

Speaker 2 But again, he'll be one of these rim guys. The best shots in the league are still near the rim, and he's going to be able to get there.
He's a big boy, and he's athletic.

Speaker 2 He's bust-proof, in my opinion. Whoa.

Speaker 1 Bust-proof. Bust-proof.

Speaker 1 What if he goes to the balls? And then you put him next to Wendell Carter, and they're like, the lane is going to be clogged up the whole time. Just Spider-Man pointing at each other.
Oh, no.

Speaker 2 That's what's going to happen. Bus proof.
Oh, he might be a bus then. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Shit.

Speaker 1 All right. Kirk Goldsbury, sprawl ball.
It's out now. Literally out today, right? Thank you.
Yes, today's the big day. Today's the big day, a visual tour of the new era of the NBA.

Speaker 1 Listen, even if you aren't a numbers guy, there's a lot of cool pictures. A lot of pictures.

Speaker 1 You are smart to put in a lot of pictures. Color pictures.
I thumbed through it and I was like, a lot of pictures.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and Shea Serrano calls you sneaky funny, which is like saying deceptively fast, I guess.

Speaker 2 And me and Shay are are going to be at book people in Austin, Texas. I don't know if you've ever been to

Speaker 1 book people. I did a book signing there one time for my e-book, so I just printed out on

Speaker 1 my signature and just handed it to people.

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Speaker 1 Okay, let's do some segments. We first up have a sheesh update.
Remember this guy? Hey, remember, remember Barries? LeBron James?

Speaker 1 He's not in the playoffs, but he's she's in out and he's tweeting drunk at night to have everyone remember who he is. So

Speaker 1 Monday night, he went on Twitter and he said, wouldn't mind seeing Daniel Craig in them in

Speaker 1 007 movie as well. Oh, he started with Tori Craig, Mo Harkless, Myers Leonard, all rocking the Martin.
LeBron 16 on court. Still so surreal to see on and off the court, man.

Speaker 1 So LeBron's still in the playoffs. Yeah.
Yes. Wouldn't mind.
Yeah, he is. His shoes are in the playoffs.
They said, think I'm going to do a Q ⁇ A sometime this week. Stay tuned.
Sometime this week.

Speaker 1 Sometime this week. Let me know, forget.

Speaker 1 Let me know, forget.

Speaker 1 Malik Beasley 2, because he always rocked LeBron's 2, love the 15s,

Speaker 1 and then

Speaker 1 not.

Speaker 1 Not. Not was the best part.
And you can always tell when LeBron's been dipping into the Vino a little bit. Oh, yeah.
So he's

Speaker 1 no, and it's supposed to be not. K-N-O-W, I think that's how he spells it.
So it's not like he left off the T. Right.
He just started spelling it. He spells it wrong.
No, yeah.

Speaker 1 You can tell when he's been dipping in because he gets very heavy on the emoji usage, too. Oh, yeah.
Like almost all emojis. It looks like wing dings out there.

Speaker 1 It's very hard to commit a typo with an emoji. He had six straight tweets with emojis.
Hey, man, you misspelled eggplant. No, it doesn't happen like that.
Uh-uh. So

Speaker 1 let's just remember that LeBron is out there drinking. Probably drunk right now.

Speaker 1 Probably watched the Rockets Warriors drunk. And he's drunk.
So someone please help him. What is he waiting for for his Q ⁇ A? Why did he say, like, why didn't he just do a QA last night?

Speaker 1 Yeah, just sometime this week. That's oh, he was waiting for May.
That's when his minutes roll over. This is a power move by guys.
I remember Pal Gasol.

Speaker 1 I'm still waiting for Pal Gasol's QA from like 2015. He's like, I'm going to answer some questions and just left.
Yeah. And he just left the internet.

Speaker 1 I was all locked and loaded for some POW questions. That's a big future LeBron thing that he's doing.
Yeah. He says, let me do a QA later.

Speaker 1 All right. Next up, we have a Sabre Metrics.
The Houston Rockets have done some complaining.

Speaker 1 They allegedly had a report after game seven last year saying that the NBA crowned the wrong champion because as they went through it, the refs cost them 18.6 points in game seven, and they also complained after game one.

Speaker 1 And saber metrically speaking, 18.6 points seems like a lot, but I guess this is just where we're at with sports now. Everyone's getting on that Saints train.
And the Saints actually had a complaint.

Speaker 1 And the Rockets,

Speaker 1 when we talked about it on Monday, when you, like, your best player, who's phenomenal, MVP, tries to basically fool the refs at every turn, I don't feel bad when you get screwed over every now and then.

Speaker 1 You can't replicate what New Orleans does in terms of holding your grudge, though.

Speaker 1 It's almost like it's a fool's errand to try to replicate what they've done to Roger Goodell, to the NFL. New Orleans, say what you want about the city, but they fucking, they remember.

Speaker 1 They remember stuff, and they do hilarious stuff like the Mardi Gras parade with the blind refs, that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 Also, it's weird because the Rockets actually technically did do this before the New Orleans game even happened because they wrote the report after the game last year, game seven.

Speaker 1 Why wouldn't you just release that? Like, do your complaining in the moment. No one gives a fuck.

Speaker 1 Every day that goes by, your complaint loses more and more of its power and becomes more and more of like a crybaby complaint.

Speaker 1 I like that they spent the time to compile the report, though, and even addressed it to somebody at the league office, but never got around to mailing it. Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It was just like one of those letters that you're told to write sometimes to get all your feelings out.
And Daryl

Speaker 1 Mori even complains like a nerd. He writes a whole fucking report about, like, dude, just say we got screwed.
We got screwed.

Speaker 1 You know what you have to do? You just have to tweet like a four-second video of a foul not being called. That will go viral, and everyone will think you got screwed.

Speaker 1 Right, so let's update the records. LeBron James lost to both the Warriors and the Rockets in the finals last year, so that's another finals loss for him.
Yes. All right.
We have

Speaker 1 two more before we get to guys on chicks. Respect the Biz, Mike Francesa.
I actually wanted to throw this out there that it might actually be,

Speaker 1 is Mike Francesa still alive? The old Pat Riley. Is Pat Riley still alive? Is Pat Riley dead yet? Is Pat Riley dead yet?

Speaker 1 Because Mike Francesa is doing the Pat Riley when we started this show when Pat Riley was going crazy. He was writing letters to LeBron, all this weird stuff.

Speaker 1 Mike Francesa is slowly losing his mind and arguing with himself and also the internet, which he claims not to read and shows that he claims not to listen to.

Speaker 1 And all it ends up is that he's mad because the Giants have locked him out of all secrets. I never said that.
Never said that. I never said any of that.
Took it out of context.

Speaker 1 It was a wild take from Francesa the other day. He was talking about the Giants, what, sixth-round draft pick that was tragically shot.

Speaker 1 He lost his best friend in the incident, and Francesa was saying that this is a classic Giants move and that they're not doing a good job of screening players who might get shot. Right.

Speaker 1 It didn't make any sense at all.

Speaker 1 And it was like a really, really tragic story because if you read about it and you did any research, which Mike Francesca probably should have done if he's doing a sports radio show,

Speaker 1 the guy who got drafted by the Giants had to call his best friend's father and the father picked up thinking that they were going to talk about being drafted and like have a great moment.

Speaker 1 And he had to be like, your son just passed away. Was he saying that players would rather get shot than play for Gettelman? Pretty much.

Speaker 1 That take would actually make more sense than the take that he had, which is that Gettelman was bad for drafting a player

Speaker 1 that would eventually one day find themselves in a circumstance like this. Just circle Mike Francesca, though, because I feel like this is also going to be a great study.

Speaker 1 It's like a breakthrough study on what Diet Coke will do to a person's brain. Yeah.
Just pickle it. Just 50 years.
Just pickle it. Yeah, like what is happening now? You don't know.

Speaker 1 His spinal fluid is half aspartame.

Speaker 1 Still a very listenable guy if he gets going on a rant. It's pretty hard to turn him off.

Speaker 1 And by turn him off, I mean just turn off the Twitter clip because I've actually never listened to his show. Right.

Speaker 1 We don't have a radio. It's like I only know him through the Twitter clip.
Do people have radios anymore? Yeah, car radios. Cars.

Speaker 1 Cars.

Speaker 1 You forget about cars. I do.
You still drive cars. You forget about cars.
That's very New Yorker of you. All right, last up before we get to guys on chicks.

Speaker 1 We never talk about another man's job, but Urban Meyer is going to get recruited for the USC job by Reggie Bush and Matt Leinert, who he's hosting a show with.

Speaker 1 If you are not following along, Urban Meyer is on step two of the Urban Meyer. I'm going to go get another job planned.
Why don't we call this segment urban development? Urban development.

Speaker 1 There's another urban development. Step one.
Reggie Bush is recruiting them. Yeah, dig some holes,

Speaker 1 put in a sewer system slash say that you're leaving the game because you're not well and you want to spend more time with your family.

Speaker 1 The second part of the urban development, start building the buildings and you do media and you realize you hate media. Third part, you go back to coaching.

Speaker 1 Reggie is going to have to be very careful to constantly remind him because Urban's very forgetful.

Speaker 1 So, Reggie, Matt, just make sure you leave post-it notes everywhere around him being like, hey, take the USD job, like he's the dude from Memento. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So he's liable to forget after just like a couple hours of anything that you tell him. Let me throw something out there.
The show that he's doing,

Speaker 1 College Game Day Show on Fox, Urban Meyer, Matt Leinert, Reggie Bush, and

Speaker 1 Brady Quinn.

Speaker 1 So Brady might get him to Notre Dame before they can get him to USC. That's going to be fun to watch.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 We actually, I would love, you know what, Fox, if you're listening to this, here's a little tip for you.

Speaker 1 Instead of trying to compete against ESPN Game Day, which is literally like the universally most loved show, why don't you just run a behind-the-scenes cam every Saturday morning of Matt Leinert, Reggie Bush, and Brady Quinn trying to get Urban to go to their respective schools.

Speaker 1 That should be segment number one. I will watch that every single Saturday morning.
Without a doubt. And well, Reggie's an expert at recruiting.
Just buy Urban's mama house. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 Hank, guys on chicks.

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Speaker 5 Sup, fellas, I'm in the fun part of life where I can be very mobile.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 5 Fresh out of college and in my first job. Unfortunately, this first job brought me to a very rural part of Maine where I've lived for about a month.

Speaker 5 Growing up in suburbia slash metropolitan areas, this is a bit of a culture shock.

Speaker 5 What do I need to do to survive this place where the median age is 48 and the young guys all have wives, kids, and gun slash trucks slash drug addictions?

Speaker 1 I think you got to get a gun, too. I think you got to find a chili's shooting club where you know the waitress and the waiters and become a regular.
Becoming the suburbs, that what we said?

Speaker 1 Becoming a local is a power move. Like one of the regulars where you walk in and everybody knows your drink.
Oh, it's her. She'll have a beer.
Yeah, she'll have the loaded mark. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because that's the only thing on the menu. Yeah, in a place like Maine, I don't really know what that scene's like.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't assume that Tinder or Bumble or anything is really popping off

Speaker 1 in rural Maine. Find a boyfriend before

Speaker 1 the first

Speaker 1 foliage. Harvest.
Yeah. Oh, no, here's what you do.
Just go hang out down by the docks. All the lobster fishermen.
Yep. They'll get off the boat.
They'll be looking. Probably smell great.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 Are testicles just boobs, but in a lower, but lower in a male? Both produce milky substances, are different sizes, and hang.

Speaker 5 Am I missing something?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 The nipples, but other than that, no. I think you got it.
Yeah, I think you absolutely nailed it. Uh-huh.
So what do I have? Very small testicles, so what is that?

Speaker 1 Do I means you don't have moobs anymore? Should I have to, should I wear a bra? A sports bra? Actually, you could wear a sports bra when you're running for your nuts. Not that I run.
You could.

Speaker 1 I mean, or whitey tighties. Whitey tighties is just a bra.
It does suck if you run. Again, not that I run in like boxers.
You get all chafed. Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That's true.
Okay.

Speaker 5 Hey, boys, so I've been talking to this guy, and every time I ask him to come out, he says he will. He asks where/slash/how long I'll be there, and then never shows.

Speaker 5 We've hung out a couple times, and he continues to text me, but haven't seen him for a while.

Speaker 1 What should I do?

Speaker 5 I don't want to seem pushy, but I don't think he's getting the point.

Speaker 1 Are you being catfished? Yeah, seems like. It says we've hung out a couple times.
So the guy keeps saying that they're going to hang out and then not showing up?

Speaker 5 He does the like, yeah, I'll come meet up with you. Where are you? And then he says, how long will you be there? Hoping that she's like, oh, not like soon.

Speaker 1 But then he just doesn't show up. Okay, it sounds like this guy is a classic case of just being a prick.
Here's what you do:

Speaker 1 go to the bar closest to his house on Saturday morning and text and be like, I'm here. I will literally be here till 2 in the morning.
Not in a creepy way. Put that in the text too.

Speaker 1 Not in a creepy way, but I'm here for the rest of the day. Or you just offer to pick him up and take him to the bar.
Yeah, that too. Or you be his DD.
Yeah. Or you just kidnap him.
That too.

Speaker 5 Hey, PMT boys, especially PFT.

Speaker 1 What's up? I recently... Did it say ass licking in front of that one? Nope.
Wait, did the other one say ass looking is implying? Wait, did the other one say ass licking? Licking.

Speaker 1 Oh, I thought it said ass looking. I was very upset for the last 30 seconds.
No.

Speaker 5 I recently was showering with my boyfriend and discovered that he doesn't wash his arms or legs because, according to him, the soap and shampoo washes down from his head and reaches his whole body.

Speaker 1 Facts besides.

Speaker 5 Is this something all guys do, or is he gross and lazy?

Speaker 1 No, I don't wash anything below my neck.

Speaker 1 This is what guys do. It's hot spots.
I hit a couple hot spots. I'll hit like one arm, maybe a little bit on the upper thigh, and then a bunch of shampoo, and you basically hit all the hot spots.

Speaker 1 Now, here's what happens: you got to go double armpit. Yep, right, you got to scrub those guys out.

Speaker 1 And then, if you had like if part of your knee was like itchy that day, then you just put some soap on the knee.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if you slid in softball the other night and you got a little dirt there, maybe wash that off.

Speaker 1 But not if you slid too hard and it's kind of torn up a little bit because you can't get that in the shower. Dude, I had a torn-up raspberry leg for an entire summer.
Talk about Fire Fest. Yeah.

Speaker 5 All right, last one.

Speaker 5 Sup, guys, especially PF Thick.

Speaker 5 Does it hurt worse to get tapped lightly in the balls or hit really hard?

Speaker 1 Would you rather get shot in your brain? Wait, I disagree.

Speaker 1 Or have somebody disappear. I discern it.

Speaker 1 I think getting hit really hard in the balls, as much as it hurts, it probably hurts more, but you're like, okay, this just happened and it's really, really bad.

Speaker 1 Like, you go into instant crisis mode where you have to just contain all your energy you go down you're in a ball you know you're heaped over when you get lightly flicked it's like the uh kill bill five finger death hit you get lightly flicked

Speaker 1 and you're like i'm okay yeah and then it hits you and you're like wait i'm not okay but you're not ready for it uh-huh and all maybe if you get hit hard enough in your balls you'll just like accidentally nut that's true that's a possibility as well or you just got to go i always go and make sure i'm not not peeing blood which i never have but well no I have peed blood but not because I've been hitting the balls but pee is stored in the balls right as we know the only thing I'll give you on that one is that if you get lightly hit in the nuts you know that it's gonna go away within the next like minute two minutes but you can really milk it you can milk the shit out if people around you know that you just got hit in your balls you can go sit down for like 10 minutes be like oh sorry my balls are still recovering right but you're fine after like two minutes yeah people can people will come up to you and be like are you okay sorry that you got hit in the balls.

Speaker 1 Yeah. All right, that's our show.
We have recurring guest Friday coming up. We have Ryan Whitney, talk some hockey, and we have the OG, Randy Moss, to give you some derby winners.
See you then.

Speaker 1 Love you guys. I'll be coming for your love, okay.

Speaker 1 Ding

Speaker 1 on me. King me.

Speaker 1 eagle

Speaker 1 to the drink of me

Speaker 1 So needless to say

Speaker 1 I've upset it's about feet still

Speaker 1 in a way

Speaker 1 So I learned that life is okay

Speaker 1 Say after me

Speaker 1 It's no better to be safe than sorry

Speaker 1 It's Pardon My Take presented by Bar Stool Sports.