Ep. #666: Spkr. Kevin McCarthy, Ben Shapiro, Bakari Sellers

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night series, Real Time with Bill Maher. How are you? How are you doing? Thank you.
Thank you, everybody. From everywhere.
My people. Thank you so much.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Wow.
Okay. All right.
Please, let's get to all the jokes. Thank you very much.
What a time to be in America and the politics and the whole thing. I don't know what to tell you, people.
It's all about Joe, and it's going to be about him for quite a while. I tell you, it's harder to get this guy to pull out than Nick Cannon.

So, did you see the press conference yesterday?

Okay, he had a press conference finally.

Okay, he walked out.

So far, so good.

It didn't help that the first thing he said when he got to the podium was why did i come in this room i mean are we really going to be doing this are we really going to be doing this for the next few months or god knows how long it's like a horror movie you watch through your fingers you know something's something's bad going to happen. You just don't know when.
And, of course, when the other day was right away. The very first question, he was about Kamala Harris, and he called her Vice President Trump.
He said, I would not have picked Vice President Trump to be vice president if I I didn't think she was qualified to be president. Now, Democrats will tolerate mental decline, but not misgendering.
I mean, how do you confuse Kamala Harris with Donald Trump? One of them sees Biden as the only obstacle to the White House in the... Oh, I see.
So, my assessment of this is what happened yesterday at the press conference. The worst possible thing that could happen.
He did exactly well enough. So, my assessment of this is what happened yesterday at the press conference.
The worst possible thing that could happen.

He did exactly well enough so that the Democrats have no idea what to do next. And now we're in this cycle where every time he keeps digging the hole deeper, but he keeps thinking he can make up for it, so every appearance is make or break.
this this is

what it must have been like

to be on that last tour so every appearance is make or break. This is what it must have been like

to be on that last tour with Glen Campbell.

Google it, kids, Google it.

And so his next make or break appearance is Monday.

He's got a one-on-one with NBC's Lester Holt,

or as he calls them, ABC's Usain Bolt.

So it's a great country we have, isn't it?

A guy who can't barely talk

versus a guy who won't shut the fuck up.

That's the choice we get.

And Trump...

Thank you. talk versus a guy who won't shut the fuck up.
That's the choice we get. And Trump,

Trump, by the way,

should have been sentenced yesterday with settling stay in his hush money

trial, which he's already been convicted of, but it was delayed, which makes

two candidates who can't finish a sentence.

So, you know,

Thank you. two candidates who can't finish a sentence.
So, you know,

now the pressure

is really on the elite of the

Democratic Party, the top people, the

Obamas, the Pelosis, the Clintons. They're the

ones who have to take care of this, really,

don't you think? And they keep

saying, well, it has to be Joe Biden's choice,

which is kind of like letting the drunk decide if he's okay to drive.

And apparently the person who now is the closest advisor to Joe Biden, Hunter.

Have you seen this? He's the one with all the influence.

Sure. When has he ever made a bad decision? And, you know, at the press conference yesterday, I mean, every reporter asked the same question.
Really? You're really doing this? You're really saying it? And Joe kept saying, I'm in this to complete the job I started. Oh, Christ, that's exactly what the Hawk Tua girl said.
But Joe finished up by wanting to remind everybody, and he did, that he does have a fan army out there who enthused-deskingly supports his desire to stay in the race.

Yes, they're called Republicans.

Okay, we've got a great show.

We have Bakari Sellers and Ben Shapiro,

but first up, he served as the 55th Speaker of the House.

Please welcome Kevin McCarthy, ladies and gentlemen.

Kevin.

Well, he came on a good night. Okay.
Okay. More bipartisan crowd than I thought.
Me too. Did you do that? No.
Did you? Wow. A standing ovation.
I wish I had that in Congress. I needed eight more of you.
Right. I was going to start off by saying, what are you doing here? I can see.
I heard you pay. Well, we don't pay.
Although you must have enjoyed the monologue. You came on a good night for a Republican to be in the wings because now it's the Democrats with a lot of egg on their face, and you know about that.
Okay, so... I've heard you're on a revenge tour.
That's what the... Well, what...
Okay, let's go through the... Yes.
For people who forget, you were the Speaker of the House for 269 days. Eight hardline Republicans took it away from you.
You're not out to get back at them? No, but... But I am there.
No, but... I think it's one of the biggest privileges you could have to serve in Congress.
Only 13,000 people ever had that pleasure. And speaker, even less.
Yes. 55.
But who's counting? But for those who just want chaos in this world, I have been involved in politics. I've been involved in primaries.
I'm proud of what we were able to achieve as leader. Only three times in 70 years

has a Republican's been able to win the majority.

I've been part of two of those, elected the most women, most

minorities. But when you have people to claim

to be... In your party? Yeah.

For Republicans. Oh.

The most women, most minorities. Low bar.

It's moving up.

No, it is.

But, you know

the other thing we did? When Pelosi became Speaker the second time and I became leader, when we came back, we had a five-seat majority. You know how many seats we won in California during that time? Five more Republicans.
Five in New York, Arizona. We elected people like Juan Siskamani, right? A John James, a Mike Garcia.
And I heard you were the biggest favorite fundraiser for the party at the time they got rid of you. Still.
Still? Okay. Okay, so, again, these eight people.
I mean, your party, would you not agree, is dysfunctional that you can let a small band of extremists do something like this? I mean, oust one of their own? Yeah, I think from that perspective, look, Bob Good just lost to a Navy SEAL. Who's that? Bob Good's the head of the Freedom Caucus.
This is what's so outrageous. Oh, okay.
You have certain people who try to claim to be conservative, and they're not. Something just happened in Congress yesterday.
They had an appropriation bill for Ledge Branch. A group of Republicans took the bill down.
And they'll say, they'll go up on Twitter and say, we did because

our debt's too high and we want to check.

You know why they voted against it? Because they wanted a pay

raise. But they won't tell the public that.

Those are the type of people I like to

challenge. And I think

the party, I grew up

in a Democratic family, but I came

to this party because of a Lincoln, a Teddy Roosevelt

and a Reagan. And I'm proud of that fact.

And I truly believe we can

make the party better. And I'm not afraid

of having a primary. I'm not afraid of helping people.
But it is certainly not the party of either of those three gentlemen. The party's bigger than a person.
I still believe in this party, in the last little bit, you say you didn't have inflation like this. You didn't have crime.
You didn't have a wide open border. Inflation comes

and goes. Democracy should be here to stay.

That's what...

Okay. That's a good discussion.

We should debate this.

Because, would you not

say, like the Democrats, democracy's on the ballot?

Yes. Okay.
Republicans think the

same thing. I know.
But we think

something different. This is where we talk past each other.

Because you will say, oh my God,

Donald Trump about democracy.

Did Donald Trump ever suppress a laptop

I'll see. I did.
I just said it. You took...
You had the second had the now Secretary of State and the people ahead of CIA to tell the American public that it's not true. You had them go after newspapers.
You can't reprint it, social media. They changed the whole Democrat primary system to rig it for someone to come through.
And really, in your position, if you think about this, it's not the same position the majority of Americans have. NPR and PBS did a poll just in Independence two months ago.
Who was the greatest threat to democracy? Yeah. By 53%, it was Joe Biden.
That doesn't mean it's right. Yeah, but Donald Trump never prosecuted his political opponents.
Did he ever indict any of them? He himself was indicted. That's the point.
Yeah. That's not who...
Yeah. But he...
Kevin, to this day... He was indicted on something other Americans have never been indicted before.
Let's kitchen table it for the people who don't get inside baseball like this. All right.
He has not conceded the last election. Did he win or lose? Did Hillary Clinton ever concede her? Yes, she did.
No. She came out before the cock crowed.
Do you know? She was out conceding the election. Why are you denying this obvious fact? Because she continues to say it.
Listen, Democrats challenged the presidential election in Congress in 2000, 2004, 2016.

Challenging is not the same as not conceding.

Hillary Clinton conceded the election.

You guys like to conflate this with people who say,

Democrats have said Donald Trump's not a legitimate president.

Yeah, maybe that's not a cool thing to say. It's different than actually not conceding the election and saying,

did he win that election, Biden? Yes. I've said it from the beginning.
I don't have no qualms with that. Right, and you actually told that to Trump.
Yes. And then you switched.
No, I haven't switched. You went down to Mar-a-Lago and kissed his ass after that.
Oh, bullshit. It's so bullshit.
It's so bullshit. You weren't in the room.
Listen, you weren't in the room. I have no qualms going to see Donald Trump.
He's my friend. I served with him, just like I do anybody else.
Go down and have a conversation with him. So, look, the reason why you got shit canned is that you...
No, it is. Is that you did the right thing.
Now, don't be insulted by this, but I have a phrase. I've said it to many people.
We've laughed about it. Chris Christie's laughed about it.
Good as it gets, Republican. It's not a high bar, but it does include Joe Biden won the election and I'm not going to shut down the government.
That's why they got rid of you. Because you averted a government shutdown.
Because they think the debt is too high, and the debt is too high.

But that's not the way to go about it.

You shut the government down, it costs you more money.

Of course.

You also have to remember when this took place.

This is October 3rd.

The world is not a safe place.

It's like 1938 in the world today.

And we've got men and women in our armed forces in the Middle East.

A few days later, Israel gets attacked.

Could you imagine America being shut down at that moment in time?

And that's not why they voted against it.

The Democrats voted against it because they thought politically it's better.

The one person who brought it forward, because he paid a 17-year-old for sex

and he wanted me to stop an ethics complaint, which I'm not going to get involved in.

So if I have to lose my job... Well, you're not naming this person, but I feel like when you say 17-year-old and sex, we should.
I mean, I feel like if you're going to throw that out there... I mean, you're talking about Matt...
You're talking about Matt Gaetz. Matt Gaetz wanted to leverage me to stop an ethics complaint that started four years prior.
Illegal. I'm not going to do it.
So if I have to lose my job... But why did you put that in there about the 17-year-old? Because that's what the complaint is about in others.
Okay. And did he? The young women say yes, so I don't know.
I wasn't there. I hope not.
But they're so. All right.
I have to present you with this. This is in my book.
I made your book? Yes, you did. I should read it.
Do I want to read it? I signed a copy for you. Do I want to read it? There are some things in there that I think you would be very laughing about.
Okay. No, I mean, I go after the crazy left, too.
Okay. But this is in the chapter about Republicans, and this is a tape of you.
It's a secret recording. You know what I'm going to say here, but I'm just going to read this.
Okay, read it. This is, and you know, a secret recording, you didn't know you were being taped, so you've got to think it's as real as you can get.
This is you. There's two people I think Putin pays.

Rohrabacher, he's a former congressman.

We had him on the show years ago.

And Trump.

Two people I think Putin pays.

Rohrabacher and Trump, swear to God.

Paul Ryan says to that, no leaks.

This is how we know we're a real family here.

Steve Scalise says, that's how you know we're tight.

And Ryan says, what's said in the family stays in the family. The crime family, but the family.
What is your explanation to this? You saying you think Putin pays two people and one of them is Trump. That's a total joke that the day before...
No, no. They don't react to it like it's a joke.

You put it in the book that you didn't even take any research.

The day before, we had a California delegation meeting.

And Roebacher was always doing crazy stuff.

Roebacher tells that joke.

So I walk into a meeting of just the leadership.

I tell that joke as a joke,

but somebody records it somewhere, and you portray it to be like that. But if you had said this as a joke, and by the way, it's a knee slapper.
I think you're safe in your job. I just feel like the reaction from Paul Ryan, ha, ha, ha, good one, Kevin.
Steve Scalise, you should go on Evening at the Improv. But that's not the reaction.
The reaction is, no leaks. This is how we know we're a real family.
That's how you know we're tight. That's not the reaction to a joke.
But good try. No, it's a talk.
You weren't there. It was a total joke.
All right. I thank you for coming on.
Thank you. Come and do the panel one night, please.
All right. Kevin McCarthy.
All right. Let's lead our panel.
All right. That was some funny shit, huh? All right.
He is the Daily Wire co-founder and editor emeritus who hosts the conservative podcast The Ben Shapiro Show.

Ben Shapiro.

Ben's popular here.

Let's plug this.

And he is a CNN contributor and the New York Times bestselling author of The Moment,

Thoughts on the Race Reckoning That Wasn't and How We All Can Move Forward Now.

Bakari Sellers is right over here.

Everybody loves everybody tonight. I love it.
All right. Excuse me, I have to do a little house commitment.
We have a funny schedule this year because of the two Republican conventions. The Republican convention starts in Milwaukee.
I will be there, by the way, the night before. Sunday night, I'm playing Milwaukee.
I'm going to go to all the strip clubs and see what congressmen are doing. As fulfilling a journalistic duty.
So because of this funny, we wanted to be on when the conventions are on. So we're on tonight, and then we're on next week.
Then we're off. Probably a bad time to be off, considering what's going on.
Back on August 23rd. In the meantime, you can read my book, What This Comedian Said.
We'll shock you. But let's get to...
I'm going to reiterate what I said in the monologue. I think what happened last night was the worst of all possible worlds because it was a split decision.
Right? Because there was not a knockout. And so this schism in the Democratic Party will continue.
Is that the right decision? First of all, I think the president did well last night. He had the flub at the beginning with Vice President Trump.
He had the flub with President Zelensky. But on substance, he was able to talk about foreign policy with depth.
He talked about Ukraine and Russia. He talked about getting a deal with Hamas and Israel.
So he was able to talk for an hour and 19 minutes with some depth. The problem that we have is that we don't actually show a split screen, because while he's talking foreign policy, Donald Trump is meeting with Victor Obarn, or however you pronounce his last name, down in Mar-a-Lago.
He said in a rally, he said he didn't even know that NATO existed before he was president of the United States. And so while you have this individual talking...
That was a joke like Kevin McCarthy.

So my biggest issue,

and I know we're probably not supposed to start with some agreement,

but my biggest issue here is a circular firing squad that Democrats have.

I think everybody within the beltway just needs to shut the fuck up, right?

We have too many Democrats.

So you want to keep going with Biden?

It's his decision. I want to beat Donald Trump, but it's his decision.
Well, of course it's his decision. That's not even a question.
I mean, nothing can happen without him changing. I'm just saying he had...
Look, I said from the beginning, or a year ago, when I called him Ruth Bader Biden, I said, do I think he can do the job? Yes. Let's not go too far.

I had this argument with somebody just the other day. Like, he's not a vegetable, okay?

He's not crazy. He can still

think. Between certain hours.

But that's...

But that's...

You know what? And that's my...

You know, I hear it, and I'm like...

I say, my candidate is old. He probably

eats at Denny's. He goes to bed early.

You know, he has, like, little tennis balls on his walker.

That's fine.

But one is old, and the other is a sociopath.

Like, the choices are extremely clear.

Yeah, but also the polls are extremely clear.

This is not about that.

It's about some people just present as old,

and that is not going to get better.

He just gives Grandpa's last Christmas vibes.

I'm enjoying the hell out of this, right? As a Republican, I'm enjoying the hell out of this. Oh, I'm sure you are.
Oh, it's great. I mean, last night was a wonderful night, because it's what you said.
He is mostly dead, which is still slightly alive, right, which is exactly what you're looking for if you're a Republican. In my synagogue, it's an Orthodox synagogue.
The Orthodox tend to vote for Donald Trump at very, very high rates. We have never said a prayer for the health of the president like we are currently saying, a prayer for the health of the president.
We would like him to remain in precisely the state he is, all the way until just after the election. That would be great.
Look, I hear that, but

it also discounts the fact that this president

actually has three and a half years of accomplishment,

regardless of whether or not he's 78,

79, or 80. Do you think he's going to

finish on a second term? Yes. I have no

reason to believe. I mean, I'm not wishing death upon the man.

No reason? Zero reason? No.

But he's... I mean, he's...

I feel like...

I'm surprised... Go ahead.
I'm just surprised

you're carrying this kind of water, because

Thank you. Zero reason? No.
But he's... I mean, he's...
I feel like... I feel like...
But why are I... I'm surprised...
Go ahead. I'm just surprised you're carrying this kind of water, because, I mean, it's...
He's the nominee. His performance...
I know, but this is all not the relevant issue, which is the polls, the election, who can win, is it going to get better? His performance every moment of the rest of the campaign is going to be bigger than any message. The suspense is awesome.
It's like watching... It's like watching...
It's Nascar. Will he vote in Spokane? It is Nascar.
That's also a failure of our foundation in media. I mean, look...
But that's not going to change. I hear you covered it up for like two years.
They they're not going to change. Because he literally talked with substance yesterday about Israel and Hamas.
He talked with substance about Ukraine and Russia. Let's have that policy debate.
That's fine. Actually he blew it.
He suggested for example that Hamas is not popular with the Palestinian people which is obviously untrue. It's not what people are caring about.
It's not what they're voting on. I mean, each time he goes out there, he's going to dig it a little deeper.
How perfect would he have to be? You mean his grave, correct? Jesus. Did you say the plan? I mean, how perfect would he have to be at all the next ones he does to be able...
He could be Cicero with Lester Harkin. But I think...
But what I do believe you are doing is what a lot of people have done, which is underestimate the urgency of many voters in the country. I was at Essence Fest down in New Orleans recently.
I've been talking to voters. And everybody's more concerned about things like Project 2025 than more concerned about the threat that Donald Trump poses.
And they're like, look, I would vote for somebody who is a senior citizen as Joe Biden over what can fracture democracy. People have that sense of urgency.
But you sound like him when he says no one's telling me I can't win. That's alarming right there that no one's telling him.
And the polls are telling him that the polls are coming back coming back to Earth even today. I mean, this race is going to be close.
Yes, it will be close. This race is going to be extremely close.
They all are. In the popular, but not necessarily in the electoral college.
He does not have very many paths. His path is he needs to win all the blue-wall states.
He needs to win Michigan and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin because Trump is probably going to win Nevada. He's going to win Arizona.
He's going to win Georgia. He might win New Hampshire.
He's competitive in Minnesota. His map is just much, much broader than Biden's.
But without going in the weeds, in every single state that you just named, the Democrat who's running for the United States Senate is actually winning those races. Well ahead of Biden, which is a point of why Biden should drop, right? If you're a Democrat, you want him to drop.
But that just tells you that there is something there. Now, whether or not, and if he does drop, that's his decision.
But if he does drop, there's only one choice. Why is it his decision? Seriously.
I mean, technically... Because he would only win the nomination.
Pragmatically, we agree. It is his.
The question is, why should it be? If you're a Democrat, why aren't you calling out everyone that you can to put pressure on him and on Jill, the actual president of the United States, perhaps, to get him to drop? Because I don't care about it. And by the way, I mean, Jim, Joe Biden would actually be a far better president than Melania or Donald Trump.
I don't even know if they're still together. But so what I would actually say is that while we're having this discussion, and I think those discussions need to be had behind closed doors.
I think they need to be had in private. The pressure campaign that people are waging in public, because all that does is make the job in November that much more difficult.
And that's why I'm urging Democrats, you want to have this discussion about his age or if he should drop? That's fine. But what we're doing now is we're hurting ourselves as we go into November.
I agree. But I find it so interesting that, you know, they say politics makes strange bedfellows.

Okay, there's two groups who want Biden to stay in the race.

Trump... Trump supporting Republicans and black women.

Yeah.

Those are the two most...

That is...

You've got to admit, that's strange bedfellows.

Well, yeah, I mean, one has a political compass and backbone and the other are Republicans. No, I mean, but let me also say this, and I want to be extremely clear.
Like, Republicans do something Democrats don't do. We like to fall in love.
Republicans fall in line. I mean, I...
You know, a religious conservative, I think that's fair to call you that,

strictly religious conservative,

but yet Donald Trump has five children by three baby mamas.

He has...

He's been found liable of sexual assault,

and he has 34 felonies.

And Republicans, even people who have

a religious conservative viewpoint on the world,

still rally behind this man.

And my man is just old.

It's hell, but old.

Here's where you and I actually sort of agree. I think the case that you're making for Democrats is actually the same case that I've made with Republicans, which is fall in pragmatic.
Not fall in love, fall in pragmatic. What you're saying is he's the nominee.
He's going to be the nominee. So stop yelling at each other and undercutting his chances, right? That's the reason why so many Republicans have also basically said, listen, I opposed Donald Trump in the primaries.
I opposed him in 2016. I actually didn't vote in 2016.
In 2020, I voted for him because he was running against a candidate I liked worse. But what you now have is a set of parties who are pragmatically backing their candidates.
The question that I have for Democrats is, is that the most pragmatic move? And I think one of the core assumptions that you're making is that nothing is going to move Joe Biden, which is really a referendum on Joe Biden. Why isn't Joe Biden looking at the reality on the ground and saying to himself, I am not the best man for this job.
The chances I finish out a second term are very close to zero. Everyone knows this.
So why is Joe Biden doing that? That's the question I want to know. I want to know why people think that he's going to finish out a second term.
He doesn't think that. I don't think anyone thinks that.
And the other thing I want to know is why it is that for two long years, anyone who pointed out that he was very unlikely to finish a second term was labeled some sort of crazy kook. You know how many leaks have come out in the last three weeks alone about the kind of insanity that's been going on at the White House? They haven't had a cabinet meeting in nine months.
Why did it take until now for us to find that out? We know the foreign leaders in 2022 were going to meetings with him, and they were bewildered at what they were seeing. Why are we finding that out now? They echoed his great success yesterday.
I mean, we saw the prime ministers come out and say that. And you're right.
Because you have to. It's the United States.
But if you want to question the people around him, that's fine. I'm questioning him.
That's fine. But what you can't question, though, is the list of accomplishments.
You can't question somebody who took us out of, who drug us out of COVID. You can't question an infrastructure reduction.
Do you remember infrastructure week? Do you remember infrastructure week? You can't question a black woman on the Supreme Court. You can't question those levels of accomplishments.
Not only will I question his accomplishments. Unless you're against those things.
But I don't mind having that debate. He has a 32% approval rating.
It's not just me. It's 68% of the American public.
You said the Democrats... I didn't think that line was that popular.
Sometimes data, sometimes data, you know what happens. You said the Democratic Party is pandering to black women and alienating black men.
What do you mean by that? Well, I think there's a, for a long period of time, black men have been ignored, and their voices have been ignored. And what you're seeing right now are a lot of black men saying that we need to be heard within the party.
And I didn't say, I'm not pitting one sex against another. I didn't say they were pandering per se.
I think that you have to give respect to who is the backbone of the party. But the second largest demographic voting for Democrats have been black men.
And most times when people talk about black men or talk to black men, they never do so holistically. The only thing they want to tell us is about criminal justice reform, how to get out of jail or stay out of jail or keep a friend out of jail.
But they don't talk to us about public education or making sure our wives stay healthy or drinking clean water or infrastructure or how to get money for our businesses. And so that's my conversation.
There was... Over the Fourth of July weekend, there's 109 people in Chicago who were shot, 19 fatally.
That's a lot over a weekend. And the race of the victims will not be reported.
Is that helpful? And why is that? Why don't they report that? Let's have some real talk here. I mean, if you think that we have a problem with black-on-black crime, I would agree with you.
But I would also say that statistically I hate that kind of categorization because of the simple fact that we're highly segregated and the crimes that are perpetrated against white people are perpetrated by white people because we're a segregated community. But what I would say is that within our own community, we have to look at crime, particularly black-on-black violence, holistically.
We have to talk about educating young people, giving them something to do, giving them job training programs, summer youth programs. We have these communities.
We don't have that already? No, but it's not just in Chicago. And people want to make it a blue city thing.
But if you look at the violent culture or the number of deaths or the rate of crime and violent crime in states like Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana, South Carolina, Georgia, we have a problem. Now, if I were able to look in the camera and talk to black men out there, I would say we have to stand up in our communities.
We have to hug and love our children so that they don't go out and join gangs so that they can find that love. And we're just not doing a good enough job, but we also don't necessarily have the resources poured into our community to help lift those people up.
I hate when people say... I hate when people say, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, and we don't have any damn boots.
I mean, I'll disagree with the last aspect, only to the extent that I do believe that everybody in the United States has the capacity to get married, father, kids, and stay with the family that they created. Well, Donald Trump didn't.
I mean, I disagree with that. And I disagree with that.
By the way, Justin, I should note, does not undercut the point at all, and you, I think, agree with me. Well, I mean, I hear you.
But I think where I would probably disagree with both of you guys is that we've never really evaluated the systems that we have in this country. I mean, most times when we talk about racism...
I just asked the question. No, no, no.
I'm just... I'm bringing us together.
I'm bringing us together. If we're talking about single motherhood, for example, obviously the rate of single motherhood in the black community has increased from 20% to 70% since 1960.
I'm talking about systemic racism. Has gotten worse since 1960? Yes.
Systemic racism has gotten worse since Jim Crow. Yes.
So you want me to give you a stat? Black home ownership today is less than it was Pre-Fair Housing Act of 1968. I can make a case for that being the welfare state.
Let me also tell you this. A lot of times when we talk about racism, we only talk about the fact when somebody calls you nigger.
But very rarely do we talk about the systems of injustice and oppression we have in this country. Where I'm from, Denmark, South Carolina, you don't have clean water, right? I live in a food desert.
I grew up in a food desert where you can't go a mile or two and have access to fresh fruits and vegetables. The schools are falling apart.
The infrastructure is eroding. Bakari, is your life as a black man better or worse than it would have been if you had been born in 1920 in the United States of black men? All you have to do is ask my father, who literally was shot in the Orangeburg Massacre, right? Who helped found SNCC, who marched with Marion Barry and Stokely Carmichael and Martin Luther King and the list goes on and on and on.
And he will tell you today that he feels like this country's at 1954. And so if you want to talk about somebody...
But that doesn't mean it is. You said he feels that way.
That's ridiculous. It is.
Come on. I think the ridiculous notion is for either one of you all to have the audacity to believe that you understand what the experience is to be...
I have to object to that. But you just said the notion...
I cannot talk about it because I am not part of a group. I am a sentient human being.
You're right. There's two ways you cannot understand something.
One is to be too far from it. We're too far from it.
We can't see like you can. One is to be too close to something.
And then sometimes you can't see it accurately either. I'm not too close to something.
I am that. I know.
Which is definitely too close to him. What I am saying, though, is for you to discount my father's experience and say...
I'm not discounting it. And to say it was silly, I'm not...
No, no, he was shot. No, no, no.
Were you shot? No, but he's still alive. Like, he's right here.
Right, but the idea that if I were to say to you as a Jew that the experience of Jews in the United States today is worse than the experience of Jews in Europe in 1939, I would not be stating accurately. It's not true.
And it's also not true to say that the experience of black people in America in 2024 is worse on a general level than the experience of black men in 1954 in Alabama.

That's just crazy.

But I mean, I think, I also think that that's decently intellectually honest, dishonest.

And that's my problem with it.

I think that's genuinely intellectually dishonest.

Because when we go through, when we go through the litany of not just, imagine, so for example,

one of my major political issues is African-American female mortality, right? If you you want to talk about structural racism did you know i'm sure you do but black women are three to four times more likely to die during childbirth than white women that's also true in europe by the way but we're talking about the united states i know but the problem is you have to have a control but we do have a control and we're talking about control and so tell me why that is okay the answer is because black people in the united States have a lower household income, median household income, which means they typically go to hospitals. I would call bullshit because it actually crosses across socioeconomic lines.
So you can be my wife who almost died during childbirth. You can be Serena Williams who almost died during childbirth.
So what's your answer? Because actually... White doctors are racist? No, but there actually is implicit bias in our health care delivery system.
And there have been medical studies that show that people respond to the pain of black women differently than they respond to the pain of white women. Yeah, I believe that.
That literally is a fact. And so I am trying to help both of you all understand that sometimes there are systems in place that just treat people differently.
So that, for example, would have nothing to do with the rates of, say, pregnant obesity by various communities. There are many, many confounds when it comes to these particular issues.
And unless you remove the statistical confounds, you end up with trying to blame vague, shadowy figures like implicit bias, which are innately, insanely difficult, if not impossible to measure. I don't know what he just said.
He's a great show. All right.
But to continue, at least we're talking. But I don't mind the conversation.
I don't either, and I'm so glad you did. And I don't do the cancel culture, and I don't do all of those things.
Right, right. Because after this, we're going to go to the back and drink some casavito together.
Absolutely. Yes.
But, which, by the way, not to find a point in this, but in 1954, your father couldn't have done that. Correct.
With us. I mean, that just wasn't what people did in 1954.
In 1955, Emmett Till was murdered. I know.
But I would also argue, I mean, look, in 2015, Dylann Roof walked into a church and murdered one of my good friends and eight others, right? Because that happened, we took down the Confederate flag. But why did we take down the Confederate flag at that point in time? Because it took black blood flowing through the streets, right? You don't get the 64-65 Voting Rights Act without the fact that people had to see that brutality of the Emmett Pettis Bridge on camera, all right? You don't get the Fair Housing Act of 1968 without King being assassinated.
We don't have a conversation about criminal justice reform without George Floyd being murdered before our eyes. And so my point to you both is that the cost for change

for people who look like me in this country is too damn high.

That's my point to you.

Well, it certainly has been.

No shit.

I mean, I'm not...

But also, who's arguing with that?

The cost has been too high.

That's always true.

Also, the benefit that you're talking about, just legally speaking,

of taking down the Confederate flag should not be equated

with the benefit of the Civil Rights Act.

They're not going to thing. And so the idea that the changes that are occurring incrementally in the United States in the year 2023, 2024, 2025, are even remotely like the changes American society had to undergo and should have undergone in the 1950s and 60s.
These are differences in kind, not differences in degree. And pretending that there is a straight comp between 1964 and 2024 is being radically disingenuous.
No, I actually think there's a direct line between Emmett Till and George Floyd. Well, there is.
That's not what he said, though. No, I'm just saying, I think that there's a direct line between Emmett Till and George Floyd.
I think that we still see that. And I think a lot of times one of the conversations we don't have is I don't think, particularly when you see these interactions that we see a lot, black folk in particular don't get the benefit of their humanity.
And that's one of my fundamental issues. I mean, honestly, I do want to make one distinction between Emmett Till and George Floyd, which is the murder of Emmett Till was explicitly based on race.
It was well substantiated. It was based on race.
The death of George Floyd, that was not even alleged to have been based on race in the Derek Chauvin trial. It was not.
Okay. Okay, that is a radical difference in kind.
No. Not a difference in a great way.
No, no, no. But let me just, let me articulate this a little bit.
Emmett Till was killed because he was black. There was not even evidence alleged that George Floyd was killed because he was black.
But let me just articulate this a little bit different to you, so maybe you can see. But it could have really been that.
But, no. It was not even alleged by the court.
It was not alleged by the prosecution. It was not alleged by George Floyd.
Lots of stuff doesn't get into the court. But my point is, Derek Chauvin saw him as being less than human the same way that the people who lynched, Emmett Till saw him as being less than human.
The only way that you can put your knee on somebody's neck for nine minutes and treat them like a dog is to actually see them as such. Or because you're a cop and you treat people badly.
That, yeah. I mean, it has happened similarly to white people.
But, I mean, let's split here, sir. The treatment of black people at the hands of the cops has been atrocious over the decades.
I think things are different now. You just see it.
Not completely different. But, I mean, I remember when I first started to talk about this issue with the cops.
I remember doing editorials about it and saying the cops never, ever turn on their own. That changed.
Now cops do testify against their own. Now cops do go to jail for things they did.
They never used to do that. That's, again, one of the many things that we're just saying have changed.
Let me, before we run out of time, fast... We just got started.
I know. We've got to move this to the overview.
We did... There was a big story.
We were off last week, and the big story was the Supreme Court ruling on immunity. And I do want to get it, but that's the president's immunity, not ours.
I might need it if he wins. Yeah, and here's what the Supreme Court said.
Trump is immune from prosecution for official acts taken while in office, but not for private conduct. I assume that means he can put me into jail just because I keep showing this video of where he's jerking off two guys at once.
But, look, I think the Supreme Court, I don't agree with their ruling, but they do have a point, in my view. John Roberts said, allowing this, he said the executive branch would cannibalize itself, with each successive president free to prosecute his predecessors, yet unable to boldly and fearlessly carry out his duties for fear that he may be next.
That's not an inconsequential thing to consider, that we would become a banana republic where the guy is always looking over his shoulder. Sonia Sotomayor, this is her opposing view for the minority, she says, with this, the president could order the Navy SEAL Team 6 to assassinate a political rival.
He'd be immune. She said he could organize a military coup to hold on to power.
Immune. He could take a bribe in exchange for a pardon.
Immune. By the way, all things I could absolutely see Trump doing if he hasn't done already.
So, what say you? None of that is remotely true in the dissent. Okay, the way that this decision breaks down is actually into three categories.

There's core presidential immunity, which would, for example, be Barack Obama joining Anwar al-Alaqi, right? That's within his purview. And that shields him from prosecution for that.
Then there's private acts, which is, you know, like a president paying off a porn star, right? That'd be a private act. Who did that? The former president, obviously.
I mean, yes. And then there's a third category, and that third category is presumed immunity that can be overcome by demonstrating that you are not actually threatening the constitutional structure.
So everything Sotomayor says would fall into that third category, meaning that if the president, for example, decided to send SEAL Team 6 to kill his political opponent, there might be a presumed immunity because he's allowed to talk to SEAL Team 6, but there is no way in hell that

presumed immunity outweighs the threat to the constitutional structure of the president of the

United States killing his political opponent. So this is a wild overread, dramatic and deliberate

overread by Sonia Sotomayor, and the majority says that in the decision as well. My biggest problem

is that I believe if you look at that ruling and you actually combine that with the Chevron ruling,

you have the largest power grab by the Supreme Court since Marbury v. Madison, 1803.
I mean, what you have... Fred Scott was pretty bad.
Well, Fred Scott was horrible. But we agree.
But what I was saying is that you have this power grab, and they did not define what official acts actually are. And so John Roberts and his court are the ultimate arbiter of accountability for the president, and I do not believe that that is the way the Constitution was set up.
I mean, it takes away the power. It takes away the power from Congress.
It takes away the power from the voter. And in Chevron, what we saw, which I don't want to go too far in the weeds, but we also saw that power grab, and that actually should concern many people out there.
It does. I mean, obviously, this is always going to be interpreted by the courts.
But to me, what it says is Trump can grab a pussy as long as it's on Air Force One. If that were legally accurate, I would disagree with the decision.

The actual decision was remanded back to Judge Tanya Chutkin

on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals,

who is very likely to uphold many of the charges

in the case against Donald Trump.

And by the way, if Democrats actually believed

what Sonia Sotomayor was saying,

and they believed that Donald Trump

was a deep and abiding threat to the democracy,

they would be rooting for Joe Biden to unleash CL Team 6

to kill him today, because then he would be immune.

So they don't actually even believe what Sonia Sotomayor is saying. But Trump tweeted out this week, or retweeted, Liz Cheney, Liz Cheney, deserves to be tried for treason.
Well, wait. He said shit? That's crazy.
Donald Trump said shit? Yeah, but when he said... No! You should come in.
But you make it sound like he's still a game show host saying shit. He's the former president who's going to be president again.
And then he'll say some more shit. And you know what will happen? We'll get lower inflation.
And we'll get a pretty solid foreign policy. Inflation's going down.
Well, that's a very sanguine way. The economy is booming by all metrics.
What's it? I said the economy is booming by most metrics, by most economic metrics. Not by the metrics.
We still have a problem. Every middle class person.
Wages didn't give up on inflation. Let me give you another quote and see if this doesn't bother you.
This is the Project 2025. I'm not going to go into the details of it.
It's everything that every liberal is going to hate. It's the Republican platform, basically.
The guy who, Kevin Roberts, he's head of the Heritage Foundation. He says, we're in the process of the second American revolution.
This is his Project 2025. Here's the part I want you to comment on.
Which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be. Really? If the left allows it to be, it will remain bloodless? That's what you think this country should be? That you do what we say or it gets bloody? That's what you think America is? No, that's certainly not what I think America is.
But I have a question. Project 2025 has been mentioned a lot, a lot, as though this is Donald Trump's platform.
And there is something shocking. Have you read page 332 of Project 2025? It's one of the best.
It's my favorite. I like the click on it at the bottom.
There's no sense? And you haven't because no one has, because no one gives a shit, including Donald Trump. You think Donald Trump has not read a 922-page program? I'm talking about the bloody part.
Yes, but he's the head of Heritage Foundation, not the guy running for president. Can I actually talk about the Heritage Foundation and Project 2025 briefly? No, because we're out of time.
We're out of time. Thank you, guys.
This was really one of the best discussions we've had. I appreciate it.
I know. It right, but it's time for New Rule.
Hey, I cut out the middle piece. All right.
New Rule, before Justin Timberlake and Tiger Woods open their new sports bar, they have to tell us what it's going to be called. Because I have to tell you, fellas, you're missing a real opportunity if you don't consider DUI Fridays.
New Rule, the designer who showed an I Love Ozempic t-shirt during Berlin Fashion Week has to apologize. It sends the message that models get skinny by injecting Ozempic.
And that's just wrong. They get skinny by injecting heroin.
And snorting coke and chain-smoking Marlboros. You know, the old-fashioned way of losing weight before Big Pharma came along and ruined everything.
Well, now that drug legalization backfired and cities are getting rid of needle exchanges, they must replace them with American flag exchanges. That's right, flag exchanges, where Hamas-loving assholes who hate this country can give away flags they were going to burn to new immigrants who love this country and want flags to wave.
As an added bonus, the matches that weren't used to set flags on fire can be used to light candles when the socialist utopia runs out of electricity. New World, since polls show voters don't care about the environment and recycling feels like a sham.
Bowling alleys should introduce disposable shoes.

Everyone hates having to put on a shoe that was worn by a thousand fat fucks who bowl.

Solution?

A shoe you buy, wear once and throw it away.

It might sound like a dumb idea,

but it works for Forever 21. New Rule, now that microplastics have been discovered in human penises for the first time, scientists must answer the question on the mind of every man.
Could this make hard-ons better?

I mean,

what kind of plastic are we talking about here? Is it the flimsy

stuff they use in saran wrap or the stuff

that goes into the black box on the plane?

I mean...

Because if it's that,

you should rewrite the lead that looks like

this.

...

...

...

...

...

Thank you. like this.
And finally, new rule, stop fucking around. The issue with President Biden isn't if, it's who.
Who will replace him because he is not going to be the Democrats' candidate for president in 2024, all due respect. Above any matters of politics or what's right or wrong, the one thing I know for sure about America is this.
It's run by mean girls. Mean girls in the press and in politics and in life.
And when they smell blood in the water, the lust to finish off a vulnerable person will never be denied. Biden is toast.
The walls will keep crumbling. And my pick in the office pool for when he gives it up is August 9th, the 50th anniversary of when Nixon did, for, of course, very different reasons.
Yes, replacing a president as his party's candidate this late will seem like a big deal. For about three days.
And then we'll all be over it. It'll be like when a co-worker gets her tits done.
At first, it's, oh my God, and a week later, they're just her tits. America is going to do this.
We're going to get new tits. So let's start handicapping the candidates.
I just want to be your guide here and tell you what the choices are.

Kamala Harris, vice president,

will get all of Biden's campaign money and on the Democrats' best issue,

abortion, she's a walking reminder

to women that Republicans are coming

for the abortion pill.

She won't just protect Plan B,

she is Plan B.

And as a former prosecutor Kamala was putting criminals in jail back before liberals decided that was a bad thing and now that CBS is locking the shaving cream behind plexiglass, Democrats are coming around to her again Harris would would be the first woman president, first black woman president, and first Asian president. But I don't vote for who will be

the first. I vote for who will win.
And for whatever reason, Harris has never been popular.

You can count the number of delegates he won in the 2020 primaries on one hand,

as long as that hand has no fingers.

In three years as vice president, she's been quieter than an electric car.

And like an electric car, your MAGA uncle can't explain why she fills him with homicidal rage.

She just does. Sometimes life isn't fair.
It's not fair that she's not popular. She's intelligent and accomplished and, in fact, was put in charge of the border.
And look at how... Okay, bad example.
Gavin Newsom is the governor of California,

home to 12% of all Americans. Okay, bad example.
Gavin Newsom is the governor of California,

home to 12% of all Americans and 50% of all Mexicans.

On the upside, Newsom is the only governor, with the possible exception of Kristi Noem,

who looks like they could do porn.

And at 6'3 and 215 pounds, he's actually the height and weight Trump claims to be.

I don't want to say...

I don't want to say he really, really wants to be the guy who steps in if the current nominee goes down,

but he gets an alert on his phone every time Biden can't think of a word.

The downside is that governor of California is kind of like being conservator for Britney

Spears.

They'll attack him on California's homeless problem, but there's a response to that.

The homeless can live anywhere, but they choose California.

Nine out of ten machete-wielding meth addicts

say they wouldn't be unhoused anywhere else.

Of course, the knock on Gavin has always been that he's slick.

Yeah, you know what? I'm okay with that.

I notice slick is something

no one has been accusing Biden of lately.

Do you want good at talking or don't

you?

Newsom is the best communicator in the party with a history of standing up to bullies, and his name lends itself to the best slogan since I Like Ike. I'm having Gavin.
Gretchen Whitmer is a very attractive choice. High-profile female governor who owns dogs but doesn't shoot them.
Polls show Whitmer would beat Trump in the must-win swing state she governs, Michigan,

and she's a pragmatist who told the Detroit Free Press,

I want to get shit done, and has, building up a string of victories on increasing wages,

universal background checks, expanding health care, legalizing weed,

and protecting abortion rights and gay rights.

No wonder rednecks tried to kidnap her. And bonus points for this.
Voters who don't yet know her will think she already was president because of all the TV shows where the president was played by an actress who looks just like Gretchen Whitman.

Pete Buttigieg.

Wow.

Impressive.

Impressive.

Fought in Afghanistan.

Came in third among Democrats for the nomination in 2020.

Is a Rhodes Scholar, former mayor, and now he's the Secretary of Transportation, and he's only 10 years old. But unlike Biden, he's allowed to stay up past 8 p.m.
And he's perfect. And he's perfect for the moment, because as our Transportation Secretary, Pete has experience cleaning up train wrecks.
And he has the balls to go on Fox News. Although, it's no secret that he brings something that makes Fox conservatives very uncomfortable.
Facts. For our liberals, Pete checks the gay best friend box, and he's...
And he speaks eight languages, which is eight more than Trump. And his worst scandal was taking too much time off when he had a baby.
But if Trump brings that up, Pete can always say, I forget, where were you when Melania was home nursing Barron? Okay, finally, there's this. 37% of our presidents were governors first.
The Democratic Party has all these very capable, popular, progressive, but not stupid, woke governors.

Wes Moore, Andy Beshear, Josh Shapiro, Jared Polis, J.B. Pritzker, Tom Claymore.

Okay, I made up Tom Claymore.

But that's because it's important to understand no one knows who these people are and that's good we need some new characters on this sitcom we call a country yeah americans like new.

And these guys, all you need to know is they're moderates,

they're under 100 years old, and they have a D.

And they have a D next to their name.

Sure, it would be fun and probably a winner if Michelle Obama ran,

but she's off living her best life.

We're not going to get a superstar.

We're not going to get a superstar in this draft.

We're at the airport, and at this point, we just need to be sure we get the last rental car. Something reasonably safe, relatively clean, and not Trump.
If there isn't a dead Girl Scout in the trunk, we're good to go.

All right, that's our show. I'll be at the Orphan Theater in Minneapolis, July 13th.
The Riverside in Milwaukee, Sunday the 14th, and the MGM Music Hall in Boston, July 26th. Thank you, Ben Shapiro, Bakari Sellers, and Kevin McCarthy.
Now go watch Overtime on YouTube. Thank you, folks.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10.

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