Overtime – Episode #665: Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, Chris Matthews

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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night series, Real Time with Bill Maul. Okay, here we are in overtime.
I know I'm not in my suit. You'll have to watch the show to know why.
But we're here with Chris Matthews and Tulsi Gabbard. And the first question is to you.
Tulsi, should women be required to register for the military draft? I saw this. This is so interesting.
The Democrats, so great at politics. I don't know why they brought it up now.
I mean, men, I almost forgot this. Men do still have to register for the draft.
Nobody gets... Well, this is actually something that they also just changed in the legislation through the National Defense Authorization Act just a few weeks ago, is now men don't have to register because they're automatically registering them as soon as they turn 18.
Okay. So you don't have to actually...
You don't get to fill out a card or anything anymore. But for...
I mean, I remember I was about to be registered when I just turned 17 in 1973 when they were still drafting for Vietnam, and it was like that was the year. It was like, oh, we're not...
Oh, it's like, oh, boy, did I luck out on that one. But they still registered you.

Now the Democrats, in an election year,

have brought this up for I don't know what

reason, saying, now we want women

to register, because there's 250,000

women in the military right now.

And if something was so

catastrophic that we did have to draft

people, why shouldn't women go?

But why bring it up in an election year

are my two questions. Well, first of all, we shouldn't have a draft.
At all? No, I don't think so. What if it's an emergency? Well, the fact that they're bringing this up now, to me, points to the fact that the only reason we would need a draft is because our warmongering politicians are starting wars that they know the American people aren't going to support.
When you look at what happened after the attack on... Well, they didn't start the war.
Well, when you look at what happened... Well, you look at what happened after the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Thousands and thousands of people from all across the country set aside their lives and volunteered because they wanted to go and fight for freedom and security and for peace. And you look at what happened after the attack on 9-11.
So many Americans like myself, we enlisted to be able to ensure the safety, security, and freedom of the American people. And so when you look, to me, it's a big red flag that they're bringing this up right now, first of all, as we have multiple wars burgeoning around the world.
But as a, you know, I've been deployed three times to different war zones. I don't want to be in a foxhole next to somebody who doesn't want to be there, first of all.
That bond and that trust that exists between servicemen and women who are, you know, bullets are flying is so essential. You don't want to have somebody next to you who's like, hey, I don't want to be here.
I don't want any part of this. Sometimes it's just numbers.
Come on. Well, you're talking about life and death.
You're talking about life and death. I know, but exactly.
And if we need that in numbers of troops, people in Gen Z, they're not going to volunteer. I've seen videos of them talking about it.
I'm like, no, you're right. This generation can't do it.
The number of people you're going to have is just going to be, it's going to be a smaller force. I mean, compared to, I mean, how many, there's over a billion Chinese people if the war breaks out with them.
I mean, I don't want to get cataclysmic about this. Well, these wars don't just happen out of thin air.
I think that's my point. No, but we didn't start that.
We didn't invade Ukraine and we didn't attack Israel. That's a silly thing to say.
I disagree. I think the Iraq war was coming right out of Dick Cheney's office.
That's true. Oh, yeah, but that war.
That's true. Well, that's not Biden.
Well, that's 200,000 dead people over there and 4,000 of our people, and that was created by the neocons and Dick Cheney. They did it.
They did it in the op-ed pages of our major newspapers. They started the war, and they enjoyed it.
They did. What do you make of Donald Trump promising that if elected, he would secure the release of the Wall Street Journal reporter who is being tried for espionage in Russia? I mean, you know, of course he's going to say that.
He, again... I will go to Moscow.
Come on. I mean, it's like Ike.
It's right on the history books. Like, how's he

going to do it?

Who knows? He's not going to do it.

Well, he could do it because

Putin... Look,

if he made it part of the Ukraine

deal... Oh, yeah, a party favor?

Absolutely. Yeah.
Because

you know what he's going to do with Ukraine.

He's going to say to them, look,

Putin gets a piece. Would you have your keep, right? Which, honestly, might be the only way that war ever ends.
How do you think that war should end? The war, and I've said this from the very beginning, the only way that this war ends is through some kind of a negotiated treaty. That's it.
That's been true from the very beginning. Does that mean giving up Ukrainian lands? It means, I think, both sides, like in all treaties, will end up having to surrender some portion of what they want in order to achieve that peace treaty.
The sad thing is that it is the Ukrainian people in their lives who are being expended the longer this war goes on, even though those who are actually paying attention know that this is only ever going to end at any point with that negotiated peaceful outcome. The danger, of course, is that Putin will come back for another mouthful.
Give him a couple of years and he'll be back again, you know, starting to war up again. But, you know, he's not going to live forever, this guy.
And I'd make the deal. I think it's a smart deal.
OK. What are the panel's thoughts on the Oklahoma school's superintendent

directing all public schools to teach the Bible?

Well, last week we had Tennessee.

They're putting the Ten Commandments now in classroom.

Does this reflect the growing influence of Christian nationalism?

It reflects the growing influence of stupidity, I would say.

First of all, it's completely unconstitutional. I mean, you're a Hindu, right? Yeah.
Okay, so you can't like this. That's not in your book.
No, I stand for freedom of religion. It's not the regular course requirements for Oklahoma schools.
Yeah, maybe we should read the Bhagavad Gita. Bhagavad Gita.
I'll help you out with that one. I got close.

Closer than other talk show hosts could.

I'll give you an A for effort.

Okay.

You know, I went to a school where at Holy Cross you had to go to mass every day during the week.

And eventually what happens is

people have comic books in their muscles.

They start going, you know, they show up

because that's where the rule is.

But they don't pray.

Well, I think, to me, what the First Amendment is all about is that we should have the freedom to be able to pray in the way that we choose or not at all, and that should also be allowed in our schools. But the freedom of religion says that we will not have a state-sponsored religion.
So no Bible in the classroom. I'm saying if a kid wants to go and pray and read from a Bible, awesome.
But I think this is saying the school is going to provide it. I mean, yes, you can have it in your desk or something.
Well, this is where the moral majority came from. You know, it all started with no prayer in public schools.
And that's when these people realized, hey, we're missing out on politics. We've got to get into the political world.
And that's where the moral majority came from. It was very powerful to where we're at right now, in fact.
Okay. Now that WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange...
Oh, good. Let's get to this.
What? Oh, it's good. Me too.
As pled guilty to espionage and secured his freedom. I didn't see this coming, by the way.
I didn't think he'd ever get out. What will his legacy be? Yes.
Time served. Time served.
He served six years, and that's what he's getting. No, but they're talking about his legacy, and that's what I want to know.
Is he a heroic crusader exposing government lies, or he is a reckless traitor who is endangering our freedom? I mean, it depends who you ask. I think that the more people have been...
I mean, I think that he is an example of... His prosecution, the charges against him, are one of the biggest attacks on freedom of the press that we've seen and freedom of speech.
Wow, I thought you would go the other way. No, not at all.
I think Ellsberg looks good right now. Daniel Ellsberg looks very good right now in what he did.
And the Fennecon Papers was about how the Kennedy administration and Johnson administration, not Nixon, what they did to lie about the war. Well, I don't know all the particulars.
I mean, you'd have to really spend months and months going through the amount of stuff he put out. But in general, I think the world's full of bad people, like I was saying to Ray.
The world's full of bad people. And, yeah, I think sometimes you need somebody to put the hammer down, I think Obama said this, and just say, I'm sorry, you can't expose our secret agents, and we have to think of our security first.
I mean, yes, I'm sure the government does some gnarly things. But I don't like this.
I don't like a guy who pretends that he's the patriot when it's the spies out there who are protecting this country, not Julian Assange. Because there are people who want to destroy this country.
And there are people who are plotting to get nuclear weapons and all the rest of it. And this guy is not the one who made sure that we have not really been attacked since 9-11.
I go to Vietnam every year to teach for a couple weeks, and I've got to tell you, the 5 o'clock Follies Hotel, the Rex Hotel, where they used to do the 5 o'clock briefing every afternoon about how many body count, how many we killed, it's all BS. That stuff was never true.
What stuff was never true? The Vietnam War and the numbers of people we were killing and the way we were winning the war. Oh, we're going to get there sooner or later because we're killing them all.
No, it wasn't true. But that's different.
We would attack them. This guy, he is exposing people who are protecting us.
We are the ones who have been attacked. Okay, great he exposed, really, is how our own government was violating our own civil liberties

and trying to cover up things that were very embarrassing

to our government.

Yeah, it's some of both.

And I think that's the essence of the responsibility

of a free press and why it's so important for our democracy.

Okay.

One more.

Which...

This is for you, but we can all answer it. Which rising Democratic star are you most excited about? Like, if, say, Joe Biden decided not to run.
Who would you... I like, uh, because I've always liked Pelosi, because she was a hell of a leader, and I, uh...
Well, she, we can't replace him with her. She picked Hakeem Jeffries.
She picked Jeffries. Jeffries.
Oh, Hakeem Jeffries. Okay.
As a potential next speaker. And I think that she's a very remarkable person.
She raised five kids before she ran for anything. And she said the secret to her success is finesse and how you deal with all these different squad leaders and all these people and how you keep them all happy.
I think she

shows some wisdom.

And I think picking Hakeem is a pretty smart move.

I think he's going to be the next leader. Big time.

Okay. Thank you, guys.
Appreciate it.

Thank you, audience. Appreciate you

coming.

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