Ep. #605: Christine Emba, Andrew Sullivan, Katie Herzog

Charlie Sheen is an icon of decadence.

I lit the fuse and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

He's going the distance.

He was the highest paid TV star of all time.

When it started to change, it was quick.

He kept saying, no, no, no, I'm in the hospital now, but next week I'll be ready for the show.

Now, Charlie's sober.

He's gonna tell you the truth.

How do I present this with any class?

I think we're past that, Charlie.

We're past that, yeah.

Somebody call action.

AKA Charlie Sheen, only on Netflix, September 10th.

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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night Series, Real Time with Bill Moore.

Start the clock.

Thank you you very much.

Thank you, people.

I appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Our last show before the break.

Oh, my gosh.

It's exciting, I know.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, people.

I love it.

Love you for doing it.

Coming in here, I know.

I wish I could use my catchphrase.

I know why you're happy, but I can't even today.

I mean, this is a week where, you know, we found out that the former president almost pulled off his coup by using the Justice Department of the country itself, and that's not even the worst news we had.

The Supreme Court has been very busy this week.

Today they overturned Roe versus Wade, so

no reaction.

Okay.

Well, if you're keeping score at home, it's guns one, women nothing.

Because they also.

It's funny, on the very week, very day, I think, where the Congress finally passed, I think, the first gun control law in 30 years.

Well.

The Supreme Court said, hold my beer.

Because they struck down a New York law about carrying guns on your body when you leave the house.

So everyone now can be strapped at all times in public.

Wow.

Well, welcome to right-wing America, where if you want to end a young life, you have to shoot them.

But I gotta...

I gotta give it to the conservatives.

They always got this.

The Supreme Court is the prize.

They keep their eye on the prize, right?

I mean, first Merrick Garland, that whole thing with McConnell, then Trump gets in office, Trump appoints.

Three of these justices were appointed by Trump.

Trump is out of office, but his awfulness lingers on.

He's like a fart with bad hair.

And I just.

I just want to say to all you purists on the left who could not bring yourself to vote for Hillary Clinton because she said super predator in 1996, enjoy getting super pregnant in 2022.

And

President Biden talked about this today, the abortion ruling.

They said he had been bracing for this imminent reversal for quite some time.

And he actually, last week, when he fell off the bike in Texas,

did you see that?

He was just,

I was just demonstrating how a woman can get rid of a baby.

That's what.

Oh,

it's going to be a fun America we're going to live in in.

Fun America.

A very different America.

Now when you ask a drug dealer if he's holding, it'll be about the morning after pill.

Oh, yeah, it's interesting.

And

the scariest part of this, Clarence Thomas, who of course was part of the six justices who voted to overturn Roe v.

Wade, he wrote another opinion, joining the majority, but also saying, we're not done yet, basically.

He said, watch out now.

They're going to go after birth control.

They're going to go after gay rights.

He seems to want to reverse all the social advancements we've had in the last 50 years.

Everything except interracial marriage.

I don't know.

Somehow that one slips through.

Oh no.

We are going to be living in two very distinct Americas.

Well, it's going to be like with weed.

You know, that's not legal in every state.

That's the same, going to be the same thing with abortion access.

You have to be very careful about what state you're in.

Be careful where you get stoned.

I do.

And be careful where you get boned.

Oh, yeah.

It's going to be state by state.

If you're in Louisiana, the slogan is, what happens in the womb, stays in the womb.

California, it's going to be, come pregnant, leave happy.

All right.

But

we can't forget that this was also the week where we had more hearings, the January 6th hearings, about the attempt to overthrow the election, and it's pretty amazing.

Trump's plan, did you see this?

This is what all came out this week, trying to subvert the Justice Department.

His plan was to secretly replace Biden electors with Trump electors.

An idea he got from an ad for Folger's crystals.

And did you, some of the testimony, just riveting from these people who are almost all Republicans testifying about this.

One of them was an election official in Georgia just trying to do her job, named Shay Moss.

She said she got so many death threats just for doing her job, she had to quit her job and go into hiding.

What Republicans call Plan A.

And

I'm the one who was written, did you see this guy, Rusty Bowers?

From No One Watches the News at My Show?

And this is my, what fucking,

okay.

Anyway,

anyway, Trump was president for about four years, kids.

And then what happened?

Anyway, Rusty Bowers,

he's the Arizona official.

He died in the World Republican, loved Trump, thought he did everything great, except when Trump asked him to throw the election, he said, that I cannot do.

He said, my faith will not allow it.

And then the next day he said, but if Trump runs again, I'd vote for him.

Proving, as I've always said, faith is bullshit.

Okay, we've got a great show.

We have Katie and Herzog and Andrew Sullivan.

The first up, she is a columnist for the Washington Post and author of Rethinking Sex, a Provocation.

Christine Emba is here with us.

Hello.

Great to meet you.

How you doing?

Pleasure.

All right.

Well, you're here on an interesting day when the abortion ruling came out, so I'm just going to ask you right about that.

First of all,

what are your thoughts?

Where was your head today?

Yeah, a crazy day to be on a show talking about sex.

I know.

The Supreme Court is rethinking sex.

That's the name of your book.

They're thinking, don't do it.

Indeed, they are.

I mean, we were warned that this would happen when the draft leaves, right?

But I still feel completely shocked that the court would basically totally overrule the general will of the American people.

You know, trust in the courts is at an all-time low, and it's definitely going to nosedive now.

Yeah, and

will it change the lives of a lot of people you know, you think?

You know, I don't know that it will because I think that women who are, you know, living in major urban centers, I'm from Washington, D.C.,

who are wealthy and have resources will always be able to get an abortion, frankly.

And especially since it's done now by a pill.

Yeah, I think, you know, I'm more worried for women who are poor, who don't have the resources, who live in all these states where trigger laws are going to be taking away their rights immediately.

I think it's kind of backwards, right?

Well, I mean, I think it's interesting, the country's moving in two very different directions.

But you heard a plug a book.

Let's do it.

Because I'm fascinated by this subject and by your book specifically.

I mean, rethinking sex.

Of course, you cannot even broach this subject about rethinking sex in the year 2022 without introducing the idea of technology.

Absolutely.

I've say it many times in this show.

People, we all are yak, yak, yak, yak, yak.

The thing that really changes humans is technology.

From the wheel to the cotton gin to the iPhone,

humans just can't resist.

You know, technology gets to parts of us that are greedy or selfish or part of our lizard brain.

We're just not that advanced, and we just can't resist.

And I think, I mean, from when I was dating, the idea of dating, I mean, most people don't date, meet somebody in person.

They're actually afraid of it.

It's threatening if a guy comes up to you in a coffee shop because you didn't meet them over the phone first.

To me, this is

right?

Am I wrong about this?

That's totally true.

So.

I think that you're onto something there, but it's a little mixed, actually.

Yes, my generation has a lot of sort of anxiety about talking to people in real life, but some of it feels a little bit warranted.

You know, in Rethinking Sex, I interviewed this one young guy who talked about how he would ask someone out at work, but he said it was like handing someone a loaded shotgun because he thought that it might be read as harassment, and after the past couple of years, he was just like,

I don't even want to go there.

And you know, this is a guy who's actually, you know, a conscientious person.

He's trying to do the right thing.

He doesn't want to get in trouble.

It's just that the norms are so unclear that you know anything could be a problem.

And so, like, you go to a dating app, right?

Because if someone signed up to be on a dating app, you know that they're looking for dates, so you can ask them out and not.

Well, the men are looking for sex.

Well,

right?

They're looking for something romantic in nature.

No.

Well.

No, and that is the problem.

The women are looking for something romantic in nature.

The nature of humans has not changed in 50 years since I started.

I swear to God it hasn't.

I know some things have changed and it's great we're all more free to be who we really are and not everybody is just heterosexual.

Most people are heterosexual and of those,

women still want romance and men want sex.

They may want romance too.

People are different.

But this, let's go back to this guy at the office who's afraid to go up to the girl.

Where do you mostly put the blame for that because that's a terrible that's a tragedy for both of them It is a tragedy for both of them.

I mean one of the things that feels so unfortunate about this is that both men and women want to connect with each other right both people do want to meet and in fact there are so many women who wish that they could be asked out in person meet somebody you know through a medium that's not just sort of like swiping left and right until the end of your days so there's a lack of connection on on both sides that's hurting both people.

And,

you know, I think that a lot of this does feel like a little bit of a backlash to what felt like an overreach of the Me Too moment at some times.

To be clear, that moment was really necessary, but again, it upset a lot of norms.

And post-sexual revolution, the norms were already unclear.

With sex seemingly always on the table,

both women could be afraid, and now men expected too much from some.

And that certainly is valid.

I got to go back to the technology though as the main thing.

Because

you gave something to men who are you know we're going to be lazy by nature, right?

I mean you put porn

on the I mean porn I've been I mean I've been a libertine my whole life but I've always said it.

Porn, modern porn, is not benign.

It is not benign.

I mean it's gross.

I don't get it.

It's not my generation way.

I mean, it's rapey, it's domineering, it's demeaning.

And this is what guys learn from.

I learned from the gym teacher.

Very popular.

Really?

Honestly, I have no idea why that's so popular, but I didn't think it was funny, but

we had health class taught by the gym teacher.

But it was a lot more responsible than what you see on the phone and what kids can look at.

I mean, I never saw anything racier than I Dream of Jeannie.

In gym.

No, that's when I got home.

I wasn't masturbating in gym class.

What's my question?

I mean,

Okay, men.

I mean, you gave them, look, you want romance.

You gave them something that,

and then like the dating apps, and like Tinder, it's not good for women.

Women cannot be liking this because they don't want just a quick thing.

That never changed, right?

You know, I think that's the case for a lot of women.

I'll tell you another story from the book.

So I was at a party.

When you write a book about sex, people just want to talk to you about their sex lives.

And this woman, you know, was telling me about this guy she was dating.

He was really great.

You know, it's hard to meet someone, but he chokes her during sex.

And she consented to it, ostensibly, but she didn't really like it.

And she wanted to know, you know, is that okay?

And, you know, she was asking whether it was okay for her to not like being choked by a stranger.

And also, you know, if her...

The fact that she consented made it so that she couldn't complain.

And I thought that that was incredibly sad.

You know, we focus so much on what people agree to, that women have to, women and men have to consent to something.

And once you've consented to it, you know, everything after that is kind of okay.

But actually, consent is a floor.

You know, it's not a ceiling.

We need to actually have judgment.

I remember reading that in the book.

Like so many things in the book.

This is just a generational thing.

I'm not mean this in a demeaning way, but it made me go, duh, because my generation, I mean, that wouldn't even be a thing.

Of course, consent is just a floor.

It's like your generation grew up with so much of this gross shit.

I mean, this choking stuff, that comes from porn.

That's where guys learn how to have sex.

It never even occurred to me.

to choke someone or why I would want to or why that would be considered sexy.

Oh, she can't breathe.

Sexy.

I don't even get it.

This obsession that they have with anal.

Do these kids even know there's a vagina down there?

I mean, this.

I don't get that either.

I don't get that either.

But what I do know is that they were saying like 50 years ago that the women's liberation movement was actually causing women more misery.

It was sort of like, you know, giving men this thing that, I mean, women were always the gatekeepers.

We can't both be sluts, you know?

Right?

And I don't think that's changed.

That's part of what your book is saying, right?

This thing, slut pride that women have, oh, we can do just what the men does.

It doesn't conform with your,

I'm sorry, the DNA, just the thing that

you're not, you're,

you're not the sluts.

I mean, thank you.

Right?

Yeah, so this is one of the things that Rethinking Sex is really about, actually, the delta between what we kind of thought that the feminist movement would bring us and where we've actually ended up.

You know, the original feminists were real revolutionaries, right?

They wanted women to be valued and respected equally to men, but also seen as women.

And, you know, women, this feels taboo to say sometimes, are different than men.

But instead, in kind of the modern moment, it almost feels like we've defined everything down.

Instead of women being respected as women, women should just become like the worst kind of man, like as libertine, as much of a slut.

You're still supposed to be a boss, but now it's a girl boss, and so that's better.

And I don't think that's better for women.

I don't think that's serving a lot of women well.

And it shouldn't be taboo to say that there are two sexes and that we're different.

It's insane.

All right, it's a great book.

I hope everybody gets it.

Thank you for coming on for our last show of the first half of the season.

Christine Edmond, let's meet our panel.

What a crazy world, huh?

Hello, YouTube.

All right.

He's a blogger of the weekly dish on Substack and author of Out on a Limb, Selected Writing, 1989-2021.

Please welcome Andrew Sullivan,

one of our

most...

Used guests.

Whatever.

Hello.

She's the co-host of the podcast blocked and reported Katie Herzog is with us tonight

okay so before I talk to you guys

yes let me program note we are off after tonight for a month

this crowd I could say anything and they make no noise they've just cured cancer

I don't know they're good laughers but other than that they

Strange fucking people here tonight.

Anyway, we're off till July 29th.

Some people are disappointed about it.

We're off for a month, but I'll be in Vegas on the 22nd.

And you can always listen to Club Random, my podcast.

Fucking amazing.

Also, I will be doing Drag Queen

under the name Billy Marvelous.

So, what a talk about a big news day.

to send me off on my one month vacation.

So,

as I said in the moment, it's always about the Supreme Court, right?

I mean, this is something conservatives have gotten for the longest time.

They play the long game, they knew this from the beginning.

It's about getting the court, that's where the power is.

They put six Catholics on the court.

I'm not going to blame you personally, Andrew, because you're Catholic and you defend Catholics, but I blame it on you.

I think you're giving the Republicans more credit than they deserve in this.

It was luck to some extent.

If Hillary Clinton had won in 2016, this wouldn't have happened.

If Ruth Beda Ginsburg had resigned and retired when she should have, this probably wouldn't have happened.

This is Trump adding three people to this court.

And it's his real legacy.

But it could have happened even with just the person that should have been Merrick Garland.

It could have happened.

They weren't trying to, and if it wasn't this time, it would have been the next time.

They play the long game and they know how to win, and they did.

But if Hillary had won, she would have appointed 3-2, and then it would have been completely different.

So there's a lot of contingency here.

Well, Republicans don't play purity politics the way that those of us on the left do.

As you mentioned in your monologue, Rusty Bowers, this guy whose life was almost ruined by Donald Trump, still said that he would vote for Donald Trump because for him, the principle was more important than the individual.

Whereas those of us on the left are looking for the perfect candidate and there is no perfect candidate.

And so a lot of people stay home and this is what you get.

So what are we going to

do now that we're we're basically living in like two different countries?

I mean you know there are countries in the world like this.

Israel certainly comes to mind.

It's sort of you know almost officially an apartheid country or could become one.

Belgium, I mean I don't you know I'm a defender of Israel.

I don't mean that's their fault.

But it's a complicated situation.

Belgium, you know, they hate each other, the Walloons and the Flanders or whoever they are, but they don't talk.

Czechoslovakia divided, like you take Slovakia, we'll take Czech.

But America can't do that.

But we're going to be living in that kind of country.

We've always lived in that kind of country.

No,

it's federalism.

If you think that Alabama is always going to have the same politics as Illinois or Oregon, you can't say that.

You don't have to say that you can only devolve these decisions to the states.

That's the genius of the American system.

There doesn't have to be one consistent national opinion on everything.

We go crazy.

We're not talking about opinions, we're talking about laws.

Well, the problem is that the pendulum is swinging further and further to the left and the right.

So every time the right passes some draconian bill, whether it is about abortion or trans kids or something like that, the left goes and does the opposite.

There's no center.

There's no center.

There's no center.

But you write about coffin.

America until today was the only Western country to have abortion as a constitutional right.

No other, not even Canada, not Germany, not any of the other liberal countries.

They did it by democratic rule.

And the Congress could do it today if they wanted to, pass a law saying abortion is

legal in every state.

But they don't have the votes because this country is divided.

This case that

forced this decision, Dobbs, was a case that said that abortion should be legal for 15 weeks.

Do you know what the legal limit in Germany is?

I know, there is 12 weeks.

But they also have health care.

They also have health care for everybody.

Well, that's fair enough.

Women are more likely to find out that they're pregnant.

They're more likely to have access to the things that they need to get an abortion or to keep the child away.

But they haggle it out and come to a compromise with some restrictions and some freedoms.

But that's what I'm talking about.

There's no, I mean, the Texas Republican Party had their convention this week.

Among the things they said, I mean, some were fairly predictable for a red state Republican convention that the last election is not legitimate, which we get used to, but is outrageous.

Secession, completely on the table.

Go for it.

Go for it.

Get rid of Texas.

See, that's such.

No, no, no.

It's a bullshit argument.

You can't get rid of...

Are you going to get Austin too?

Oh, we can take Austin.

I'm sorry.

It's a fist.

I guess you're kidding.

I hope you're kidding.

Because, first of all, it's not possible.

It's never going to happen.

Well, I don't know.

Half the country, I read last week in a poll, thinks they will see a civil war in their lifetime.

And when that half, I think a lot of them see a civil war or rooting for one.

I think a lot of them are actually rooting for it.

Whatever it is, they also, listen to this.

Homosexuality, they said, is an abnormal lifestyle.

I mean, so we're back to the 80s on that?

This is the country they want.

Clarence Thomas put it in the ruling today.

We are going back to, and I'm telling you, this is two different countries.

Yeah, but on the issues like abortion, say, let's take that.

This is actually a great opportunity for liberals, for pro-choices.

The country is not in favor of banning all abortion.

Only 13% want that.

So go out there, persuade people, and what this ruling does is call the religious rights bluff.

They've always been able to say this is terrible, must be banned.

They've never had to face the consequences of such a ban.

And now they will make the argument, build the coalitions, win the elections in the states, and get pro-choice policies back.

It's

feasible.

It's feasible, Bill.

And in the meantime, If that's your principle, get out there.

Make sure that these women in these states have access to abortion pills.

Find the funding if they need it to go travel to get it.

There are things you can do.

The country as a whole, like 71% of the country, supports gay marriage.

The Texas Republican Party is bonkers.

They won't be able to get this done.

So I think democracy is a great thing.

There are extremes.

I agree with you entirely, Bill.

The right has gone off the deep end.

The left has gone off the deep end.

We need someone who can find a center.

It turns out Biden doesn't seem to be that person.

Let me ask you about that.

I saw your tweet this week.

Maybe it was just yesterday.

It said something like, you know, we voted for Biden thinking he was a competent centrist, and he turned out to be an incompetent extremist.

That's what your view of him is?

Well, it seems, I don't know how else to put it.

This is a person who's just automatically abolished biological sex in Title IX regulations.

This is a guy who wanted to spend even more money than we spent last year when we now have inflation at somewhere like eight or nine percent.

There is not a single issue as immigration.

A million illegal immigrants have come in in the last year under Biden.

This is not a moderate presidency.

I wish it were.

I voted for him.

But he's the captive of his left the way that some of these Republicans are captive of their right.

We need people to stand up to their own bases, appeal to the middle, and win.

And I think that we're coming to the point where all of us are as sick of this as you are, Bill.

It's an awful, poisonous.

It feels like a toxic marriage where now people are just doing things for spite.

Well, it is.

It's been that way for quite a while.

Awful.

And go back to what you said about the first thing you said Biden did.

He outlawed biological sex.

He said that in Title IX, which is about colleges, that

sex as a biological thing is no longer the question for defending women.

It is only gender.

So you can be a biological male and invoke the rights of women in colleges and win.

He also removed all the due process for people accused of sexual harassment.

He created one, he didn't give them access to any of the allegations.

He got rid of any cross-examination.

He returned it to this one single judge, jury, and executioner.

And we know that led to horrible abuses.

There is nothing I can see right now, even on abortion, where he is anywhere near the center of where public opinion is.

Well,

and then the trans one that was, I think, this week.

Now, he said, I think the quote was, my order will use the full force of the federal government to prevent inhumane practices of conversion therapy.

Now,

I remember conversion therapy being, it's something silly.

I made fun of it in Religious.

It's one of the funniest scenes in the movie, I'm sure

you remember.

But

conversion therapy, where they would take a gay person and say, you know, there's no such thing as gay, and we're going to convert you.

And of course, it was silly, and we laughed that one off the map.

I guess the Supreme Court's going to try to bring it back.

But it is a completely different issue with what he's talking about here with trans.

Yeah.

Is that right?

It is right.

We've all three gotten in trouble.

It's interesting.

A gay man, a lesbian, and a straight guy, we've all caught in hella shit.

Yeah, when HBCU

just for talking, because their view is if you just debate it, it's bigotry.

And we're here to say, no, it's not.

We're going to debate it.

So Biden says what and what do you think?

Well, first of all, I think when HBO told you to do something for Pride Month, this probably isn't what they had in mind, Andrew and I.

Yes.

This is a misnomer.

When it comes to conversion therapy, we know what that means with sexual orientation.

And we also know that sexual orientation, for most people, college girls being the exception, is fixed from a very young age.

Gender identity is not.

And the executive order that you're talking about, Biden didn't define what conversion therapy would mean when it comes to gender identity, but what this could be is, let's say a child goes to a therapist and says, I have depression, and also I'm trans, I have gender dysphoria.

And if the therapist or the clinician says, let's address these possibly underlying issues, your depression, let's try to get to the root of your gender dysphoria before

just affirming you and saying, yes, you are the sex, you are the gender that you want to be, Let's start you on a regimen of puberty blockers or hormones.

That can be considered conversion therapy.

And we like to talk about how, us liberals, we like to talk about how we're the party of science.

Well, we actually have lots of data on this.

And the science tells us, as Andrea has talked about a lot, many, many children who present with gender dysphoria from a young age desist.

They grew out of it, and they often end up being like us, gays and lesbians.

And so it's a complete, it's conflating these two things that really should not be conflated.

And once in a while, like me.

I'm a flagrant heterosexual.

I'm just worrying what this is.

But you've also, before we, just to save you here, so you don't get killed, because I know you've gotten killed.

You're already happy.

I know.

But you also said in your article that got caught so much shit that some people transition and are very happy about it.

Absolutely.

Right, and that's an honest debate.

Saying some people are happy.

So let's find the right method to make sure we get the people who are going to to be happy with it, okay, but not the people who are not going to be happy with it.

This seems like so reasonable, but we just don't do anything in a reasonable way.

Why would you want?

You want a right diagnosis, right?

You want a right diagnosis.

Sometimes that will take time to listen to a child, to explore all sorts of issues with them.

And they're saying that's wrong.

You have to immediately look around them, immediately put them on this track.

And, you know,

I worry about what this does to gay kids.

I'll tell you a little story.

At Christmas once, I was with my grandmother, my mother, and my little brother.

I was eight, he was four, he was ramming a truck up against the wall.

I was sitting there reading some stupid books.

Up against the wall, thank God.

I didn't know where that story was going.

I was like,

well, this is how it began.

And then I thought, you know, no, no.

And my grandmother looked at my mom, looked at my brother and me, and said, well, at least now you have a real boy.

And, you know, I think there's a danger.

I don't think everyone's intending to do this.

But there's an effeminate little boy, or a boy that isn't stereotypically male in those old stereotypes, is being told by chill, by authorities, you know, maybe you're a girl.

Maybe you're a girl underneath.

It's vital that that gay kid not be told that.

It's okay to be a man and not be stereotypically male.

I thought that was what we were fighting for.

Or,

conversely,

what they used to call a tomboy.

Right.

Women have said this to me, that like I was not interested in wearing a dress or any, I was what they called a tomboy until I was 15.

And today they would have said I was trans,

but I changed.

Right.

Because all of childhood is so fluid.

I mean, so again, we're going to get killed just for having this discussion, but you know.

There are children's lives at stake here.

And it's important also for trans children.

They are there.

They do exist.

I think Katie and I both agree that if after careful diagnosis, a period of time where they really are assessed properly, they can consent and should consent sometimes, sometimes, to transition.

But this current enthusiasm is pushing a lot of people, a lot of kids, in the wrong direction.

And it's up to us

that you have written about.

To me, the scariest part is that it has infected actual medical schools, the seat of where the science is, where you have professors at medical schools apologizing for using the words male male and female?

Yeah, yeah, the W word, the B word, man and woman.

Right.

But it's also true that the right is using this

in a way that's incredibly draconian and cruel.

Texas talking about taking kids from their families for following medical guidelines.

I disagree with the guidelines.

I think they're based on, oftentimes, on erroneous evidence.

And what that does is, even if you're a person who objects to things like puberty blockers, if Texas

passes a law outlawing puberty blockers or criminalizing doctors, Oregon, Washington, California are going to pass laws saying that 13-year-olds can get them without parental permission.

This is just, it's the pendulum that continues to swing back and forth.

That's the other thing, there's no center here.

Again,

and none of these issues, well, not none, but a lot of them are not that hard to come to a reasonable

middle ground that everyone could agree on if they weren't nuts.

Right.

In Sweden and Finland, they have essentially stopped widespread use of puberty blockers because they have looked at the evidence, they have done the thing that liberals say, they have followed the science, and the science says that the side effects are very serious, and many children

who present early with dysphoria are going to desist.

All right.

Well, as I mentioned, we are about to take our July break.

We will be back July 29th.

But whenever we go away for a month, what we do is provide for the audience future headlines because people

need to know what is going to happen.

And if we're not here every week to report what's happening, we will tell you what's going to happen in the next month.

Here are the future headlines for July.

Uvalde, Texas Police Department still waiting in hallway.

Ivanka publishes new book.

You're right, my dad's an asshole.

Will you buy my clothes now?

Battered crypto investors flock to I'll suck your dick corn.

Herschel Walker admits to fathering Nick Cannon.

Wow, that's

outrageous.

Libraries in Texas to offer impotent gun nut story out.

Biden falls off stationary bike.

People who fled LA for Idaho during pandemic realized they fucked up.

San Francisco shoplifters steal security guards' pants.

Amber Heard, now on Cameo, says crapping in your bed will cost extra.

And

Dave Chappelle Shocker, I'm an Asian woman named Diane.

So

I mentioned the

Gun Nut Story Hour.

This is a play on what's going on.

Now, I hadn't heard about Drag Queen Story Hour before like a few weeks ago, and now it's all I hear about is Drag Queen Story Hour.

And I'm looking at poor Donald Trump.

You know, he was attacking me again this past weekend.

I found

the raw nerve there is DeSantis.

Because I was talking on last week's panel.

Somebody said, do you think DeSantis would be better than Trump?

And I said, fuck yeah.

You know,

he doesn't spray cotton candy on his head in the morning.

You know, I mean, it's just not a complete nut.

Trump went crazy about that.

And I just thought, you know, if Trump would just let go of the election, which he can't,

he could win this so easy because he could win a just on Drag Queen Story Hour.

Which, you know, I personally, I don't know, I don't know why six-year-olds need it, but I don't think it hurts them that much because I don't even know they really, I don't think they think that's a man.

They don't understand that any more than they understand that the mol scent is an alcoholic.

But

what do drag queen story hour as politics your point your your take oh me I anyone I think as politics though you can demagogue this issue to the nth degree and the right will do so

if there are instances where these drag queens some drag queens are behaving inappropriately they should stop it but kids liking people in bizarre costumes and sequins and makeup and they're encouraging them to come to a library I mean it's not Hooters right?

And the parents get to choose whether they take them or not.

Now the right is all in favor of parents' rights until the parents do something they don't agree with.

And then they want to take them away.

Look, this is a trivial issue, obviously.

I think they need to calm, the drag queens probably need to calm it down a bit.

And I say that as a huge fan of drag queens.

I live among them.

in Promstown.

I've taken my niece and nephew to see them.

And they loved it.

They had no idea it was an actual man under the city.

Right, right.

I know.

If you grew up in Britain, you go to these pantomimes every Christmas.

The lead is always some guy in a dress looking as ugly as possible.

They literally do it for children.

What about a compromise where we allow drag queen story hour, but they read and rant?

And then the conservatives.

The drag queen issue, drag queens can be clownish, it can be innocent, it can also be over-sexualized, and so the right is taking these what are probably isolated incidents and turning them into political issues, which I think is strategically smart.

As a general rule, I think it is inappropriate.

If a woman was doing the same thing, an actual biological woman, and it was considered inappropriate, parents probably shouldn't take their kids to whatever event it is, whether it's happy hour or story hour or drag queen brunch or whatever.

But they are, this they're turning this into a

homophobic panic at this point.

Right.

Right.

And it's, but that is politics that's that's going to work.

I mean, so it seems like the left has been able to call people racist as an argument ender.

Right.

And now the right has decided, what if we call them all peddas?

Or groomers.

Oh, groomers.

Pedophiles.

Because that's, like racist, how do you say I'm not?

I'm not.

The more you say I'm not, they say, see, it proves you are.

Right.

And

I think this is another horrible aspect of the far right goading the far left.

They have this horrible sick relationship in which they prop each other up.

The middle of the country has to say, cut it out.

Yeah,

if this is happening, it's fine as long as it's totally PG, right?

Okay, so Pride Month.

I mean, you see it everywhere.

Can it be too commercialized, do you think?

I mean, I was back east last week.

There was a little thunderstorm.

I saw a rainbow.

I thought it was an ad for the sky.

I don't know.

Yes, it is too commercialized.

It's also, I mean, at this point, everybody is gay, everybody is queer.

Really, that takes the fun out of it at this point.

I thought that.

I always thought that.

And I thought the coolest thing was you couldn't get married.

These are for straight people with gay pride parade.

You go to, you see, and we, if you look at some polls, ask of the LGBTQIA plus plus WZYX community,

40% of them are straight women who just dyed their hair one day and called themselves queer.

I mean,

the left is all about against cultural appropriation,

but with gays, they want to be as LGBTQRSTUV double XRT as anyone.

Well.

But here's, let's look at this.

Here's the last polling of Democrats.

These are Democrats on this issue.

40% of Democratic men under 50.

It's so interesting.

The Democratic men over 50, much more liberal on this issue, because these are the ones who have kids, the younger ones.

40% of Democratic men, again, Democratic under 50, agreed transgender people are trying to indoctrinate children into their lifestyle.

I'm skeptical of this poll.

Okay.

That doesn't align with my lived experience, as they say.

There's also methodologically really flawed that poll.

But I do agree that we went as gay people from being the people who always supported subversion, humor,

subculture, and now we're the people yelling at people for not saying the right words and not using the right pronouns.

And it's just awful.

It violates the gay spirit, the gay inheritance.

We hate

restrictions on free speech.

For the longest time, gay people, the only right we had was the First Amendment.

And now these LGBTQ alphabet people want to control people's speech.

No, gay people have to begin to stand up and say to the TQRSVW people, cut it out.

Cut it out.

We are not this.

We are not a bunch of scolding Puritans who want to tell people how to live their lives.

We are people who just want to live our lives.

Right.

Let everybody else.

When we made it that way, when we made that argument, I made it for 20 years.

We won.

Right.

And now they want to reverse this because they're not content with liberal, let live.

All right, so I want to introduce one more poll.

I hope this one is not bullshit

in the minute we have left, but just because Trump went so mental about what I said last week, I want to twist his tail more.

New Hampshire had a poll, presidential poll.

DeSantis beat him.

That's right, Donnie.

He beat you.

And, you know, I mean,

I think if Trump could, again, if he could just let go of the election, but at this point, you know, he's just like a hotel room that smells.

At some point, you just want a new room.

You know what I mean?

And DeSantis, I mean, he's just more, he's more vibrant if you like people who don't lose elections.

Well, he's also not plagued by scandal the way that Trump is.

He's a stronger candidate.

The January 6th hearings have been very compelling to watch.

But a little part of me thinks this might actually be bad for the Democrats because if Trump is too weak to win the Republican nomination, it's going to be DeSantis and DeSantis could beat Biden.

Well, easily beat Biden.

Anybody could beat Biden.

I don't know Trump could be.

Who could not beat Biden?

I don't know that Trump should win.

Yeah, no.

Trump might be the one guy who could lose to Biden.

But DeSantis, you're right, because he's a winner.

He runs the third largest state.

Trump is a hotel greeter

who lost.

His insurrection failed.

He attacked our very Constitution.

He should not be running ever again for anything.

But here's my point, Bill.

If we want to stop Trump, which is my primary objective.

Right.

DeSantis is more likely to do it than any of the Democrats, I see.

Who do they have?

But DeSantis.

She'd lose in a landslide.

Right.

Who else is there?

The talent.

But DeSantis will be able to govern in a way that Trump never has because he isn't as plagued by scandal as Trump, which to me is more terrifying than the buffoon.

But he's not nuts.

He's way too conservative, but not nuts.

All right, gotta go.

Time for new rules.

You're right.

All right, New Roll.

The people and ads for burial insurance have to look a little less excited to be almost dead.

You don't look like sober couples planning for the inevitable.

You look like cult members excited to get sucked up by the rapture.

And think of what burial insurance means.

You spend a fortune raising your kids and they won't even pay for your goddamn funeral.

Your role this summer, instead of buying your kids these new ketchup popsicles, just admit you hate them.

Oh, the rest of the kids get burgers and fries.

You'll suck on the condiment pack and like it.

That's right, kids.

Enjoy your frozen ketchup treat, because if you think it can't get worse, I've got two words for you.

Mayo pops.

New rule, Donald Trump has to keep my name out of his motherfucking mouth.

listen to this

last weekend he told his rally that I'm a quote radical left maniac

and that I laugh like hell at how stupid Fox News is

yes yes I do

guilty he also said that they Fox News the ones I laugh at kiss my ass.

Which he then said was not particularly pretty.

Okay, one, stop looking at my ass.

And two, are you sure you want to go there?

Because Donald Trump, I will put my ass up against your ass.

Oh, wait a second.

That's not what I mean.

New Roll, someone has to tell the rarely seen goblin shark that grows up to 20 feet, has razor-sharp teeth, and a mouth that protrudes and bites like the monster an alien.

You're the reason I only go in the ocean to pee.

And by the way, an extra shame on you for your Tinder photo.

New world, now that the World Health Organization has insisted we come up with a new name for monkeypox that's non-discriminatory and non-stigmatizing, they have to introduce us to the monkey who complained.

And then immediately fire him from his job at the Washington Post.

Honestly, monkeys do not care.

I even asked one.

I said, hey, monkey,

do you care that it's called monkeypox?

And he just rolled his eyes and did this.

And finally, new rule: if there's one thing the Johnny Depp trial proved, it's that in this world you got to have a good lawyer.

I won't rehash the gory details of the case, but there were some bad stumbles on this side.

While conversely, thanks to Camille Vasquez, Johnny's name has been cleared, if not his bloodstream.

Point being, you need a good representative in court, which made me think: where else does that term representative come up?

Oh, yeah, Congress.

You see, in the American political system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally stupid groups:

the Republicans who normalize constitutional crimes, and the Democrats who pit identity groups against each other.

These are their stories.

Last week, an 85% Latino congressional district on the border with Mexico, which had always voted heavily Democratic, flipped to the red team.

And the campaign manager for the losing Democrats said, we gave up a reliably Democratic congressional seat for no reason at all.

We deserve to know why.

Well, aside from your terrible attitude,

I'm going to tell you why.

Because these voters stopped seeing your candidate as their lawyer.

That's why.

Their message to you was, I'm an American now.

I'm here.

Be my lawyer, not the lawyer for the migrants showing up in my backyard.

Every month I see a new poll reporting how much Latinos despise the woke term Latinx.

It's about as popular with them as a reboot of Speedy Gonzalez.

Even the country's oldest Latino civil rights group came out against it, yet AOC keeps defending it, saying gender is fluid, language is fluid.

Yes, and Latino voters are fluid.

And more of them now than ever are identifying as Republican.

So are Asian Americans, whose support for Democrats is down 16 points since the last election.

A lot of that is because in the name of achieving equity in schools, Democrats in deep blue cities have made it a mission to eliminate the advanced programs at which Asian kids excel.

Asian parents said, okay, I wish all kids well, not a racist, but I need someone who acts like my lawyer.

If you're a parent and wanted schools to reopen a lot sooner than they did after COVID shutdowns, shutdowns, or think maybe your kid is getting a bad education partly because it's nearly impossible to fire a lousy teacher,

yeah, you're going to say, congratulations, teachers, you got yourself a good lawyer.

The Democratic Party's always got your back, 100%.

But I've noticed my kid is kind of an idiot.

So I may be looking for new representation.

President Biden wants to cancel hundreds of billions of dollars in student debt.

Okay,

but the poorer two-thirds of American kids who don't get a college degree are going to say, Why should the people who didn't go to college and make less money subsidize the people who did go and make more?

You want me to chip in so some liberal arts college can build a bigger rock wall?

You're not my lawyer.

A universal basic income probably sounds pretty good to a lot of people struggling without a college degree.

And a number of cities have been running pilot programs in guaranteed income.

But the West Hollywood program had to be suspended because it was unconstitutional.

They set up a program where 25 residents were to get a thousand bucks for 18 months, but only a few identified as LGBT, the rest of that.

Why?

Because they need money more than any other people?

Because no one in West Hollywood will hire a gay person?

When he ran in 2020, Bernie Sanders said he would legalize marijuana on his first day as president, but that the business of selling pot would be awarded first to those who suffered most from the drug war.

And you know what?

I can't argue with that instinct.

The drug war has been a horrendous instrument of prejudice and punishment for racial minorities.

So it seems fair that they jump the line for weed franchises the way Indians did for casinos.

But it's also what's holding up Republican support for legalizing weed nationally, which would be good for everybody.

And these are the hard, practical choices that Democrats have to weigh.

Redress the past

or reach out to the gettable white voter who says, you know what, I'd like a shot at getting in the pot business.

But to do that,

our entire audience.

But to do that, I'm going to need a good lawyer who fights for me.

And then there's abortion.

A difficult issue for the Democrats to lose on, but they're trying.

For decades, liberals have said, if only men could get pregnant, this wouldn't even be an issue.

And abortion rights are women's rights.

Well, that's wrong now.

Or as the kids say, hold up.

When the wokey end of the progressive spectrum talks about abortion now, they shy away from that word women and prefer terms like birthing people

or people who menstruate because Somewhere there's a trans man who's pregnant and I say good for him and I'll be

and I'll be looking for his story somewhere in a future issue of Ripley's Believe It or Not.

Oh, Democrats, let's take the first fucking word a human animal understands, mama,

and replace it with something best understood by four Trotskyites at Berkeley.

As with all these issues, the wavering voter is saying to her lawyer, the the Democratic Party, hey, so happy for you that you have so many other clients and that you care so much about their problems and all the pro bono work you do, but you're supposed to be my lawyer.

The Democrats need to be like the lawyers you see on billboards.

You hurt, we fight.

Injured, get the gorilla.

Minzi makes them pay.

And my favorite, just because you did it, doesn't mean you're guilty.

It does it?

I think it does.

But that's the thing about a lawyer.

Their clients don't care if they shade the truth.

They care about winning.

You know what I want the Democratic Party to do?

Win on the Trump issue.

Finish what you started with the January 6th hearings and make sure the guy who absolutely will try to steal the next election can't run in it.

That's what I want my lawyer to do.

All right, that's our show.

We're off for a month.

I'm back on July 29th.

So then I'll be at the New Jersey Performing Arts Show on July 8th, at the Wang Center in Boston, July 9th, and at the Mirage in Vegas, July 22nd and 3rd.

I want to thank Andrew Sullivan, Kenny Herzog, and Christine Emda.

Stay tuned for overtime on YouTube.

Thank you.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10, or watch him anytime on HBO On Demand.

For more information, log on to HBO.com.