Ep. #495: Michael Lewis, Tim Ryan

This is Marshawn Lynch.

But on prize picks, being right can get you paid.

So I'm here to make sure you don't miss any of the action this football season.

With Prize Picks, it's good to be right.

With millions of members and billions of dollars awarded and winnings, Prize Picks is the best place to put your takes to the test.

The app is really simple to use and available in 40 plus states, including California, Texas, and Georgia.

Just pick two or more players across any sport.

Pick more or less on their projections.

And if you're right, you can cash in.

With simple stats and fan-friendly policies, PrizePicks is the best place to make your picks.

Most importantly, they don't play about your paper.

All transactions on the apps are fast, safe, and secure.

Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Spotify to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.

That's code Spotify to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.

PrizePicks, it's good to be right.

Must be present in certain states.

Visit PrizePicks.com for restrictions and details.

This podcast is supported by Progressive, a leader in RV Insurance.

RVs are for sharing adventures with family, friends, and even your pets.

So if you bring your cats and dogs along for the ride, you'll want Progressive RV Insurance.

They protect your cats and dogs like family by offering up to $1,000 in optional coverage for vet bills in case of an RV accident, making it a great companion for the responsible pet owner who loves to travel.

See Progressive's other benefits and more when you quote RV Insurance at Progressive.com today.

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, pet injuries, and additional coverage and subject to policy terms.

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Month series, Real Time with Bill Ma.

Start the clock.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Appreciate you following me through this.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I appreciate that because thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for bucking me up because, you you know,

it's so nice that you're in a good mood because it's hard to be in a good mood these days with the news.

I mean, I think longtime viewers of this show know that there's two things I really could give a shit about.

Royalty

and babies.

But you know what?

But I'm reading about the royal baby because, you know, it's just nice that there's something in the news that makes me not want to go doctor shopping for opiates.

So yes, Prince Harry and Megan Markle, the Duchess of who gives a fuck,

they,

early on Monday, little baby made his Brexit and

it's...

I know.

Sad I'm even talking about it, but it but he's the first royal baby that has American blood, if you don't count Trump.

You know, see, it always gets back,

always gets back to that.

That's my problem.

But I tell you, that Megan, she is a woke princess boy.

Oh, boy.

Kid is five days old.

She said to him today, my eyes are up here.

That is some woke.

That is some wokeness.

But, and he came out just in time for Mother's Day.

Isn't that nice?

Mother's Day, you remember that?

Sunday?

Don't forget that shit.

Ooh.

The day we honor the woman who fed us and raised us and paid bribes to get us into USC.

That's a wonderful day.

But really,

that's the only normal things that are going on in the world right now.

Really?

Even the things that kind of seem normal are not normal.

Like Trump nominated a guy to be the Secretary of Defense today.

It's a Boeing executive.

To be the Secretary of Defense, he will oversee the Army, the Navy, the Air Force.

Well, one thing he has proven, he has, he can

kill people with planes.

I know that's

such a terrible joke, I almost couldn't get it out, but I'm so glad I did.

Anyway,

but that's not really normal.

It's not really normal that the president's son is subpoenaed.

He was subpoenaed yesterday, Don Jr.

They want to ask questions about his meetings with the Russians, and Don Jr.'s not having it.

Oh.

Yeah, that'll change things.

Oh, Don Jr.

said, again, I already lied about this.

And he's not going to go anyway.

I mean, the president has decided that laws don't apply to him.

I mean, Donald Trump, with the help, never forget this, this could only happen with the help of the Republican Senate.

He's been asserting executive privilege about the Mueller report, forbidding officials to testify,

blowing off subpoenas, just completely saying no, cock blocking all the attempts to see his tax returns.

It turns out we're not the resistance, he's the resistance.

It's like if in law and order it began with, in our system, the people are represented by two separate groups:

the Congress who writes the laws, and the executive who says, go fuck fuck yourself.

Can we see his taxes?

No.

Do we get to see the unredacted Muller Report?

No.

Are you having entanglements and making money from foreigners?

Yet.

I mean, no.

Trump's attitude on the separation of powers is basically talk to the hand.

Fat Donnie to Congress, lose my number.

Your fake government.

Trump, of course, you know this, has not read the Constitution.

He once skimmed it for his name.

And now he's discovered this new thing.

that he can say to break the law, executive privilege.

Didn't know that, but that's his new favorite phrase, executive privilege.

It's even better than white privilege.

The ranking Democrat Jerry Nadler has been waiting all week and from last week to find out when he can see the redacted Mueller report.

And he got his answer on Wednesday, when pigs fly out of Putin's ass.

Barr wrote him a letter.

He said, executive privilege, bitch, even though this doesn't remotely apply to this case, he might have invoked the infield fly rule.

It would have been the same thing.

It's like saying,

teacher, you can't keep me after school.

I have a note from Burger King.

So Democrats voted this week to hold Barr in contempt.

Shut up!

It's not doing any good.

Hold him in.

So what?

He's the top law enforcement official in the country.

Who's going to arrest him?

Inspector Gadget?

And then they went, and we might censure him.

Oh, great.

And don't forget to put a note on his windshield.

It's Chinatown, Jake.

That's what we're living in.

America's Chinatown.

And Democrats, they can't make any political hay out of any of this.

It came out this week that from 1985 to 94, those 10 years, Trump lost more money than anybody else in America

and paid no tax.

Really, Democrats?

You can't do anything about that.

Elizabeth Warren, start calling him Brocajontis.

Something.

You can't do anything with that.

He sold himself to this country as a business genius.

Turns out he's a reverse billionaire.

His economic value was minus $1.17 billion.

And today, Milani was like, tell me again why I'm fucking this guy.

All right, we've got a great show.

Ben Jones, Zaira Hook, and Matt Lewis are here.

And a little later, we'll be speaking with Congressman Tim Ryan.

But first up, he is the best-selling author of Moneyball, The Blind Side, The Big Short, whose new book is The Fifth Risk.

He also hosts the Against the Rules podcast, Michael Lewis.

Michael,

how are you?

Great to meet you.

Good to meet you.

How are you doing?

You're good.

Okay, so once again, you've done it.

You have written a book I think that is very important.

And I think it could be subtitled, Hooray for the Deep State, or Hooray for Bureaucrats.

And I think Trump always says he's a different kind of Republican, but what the consistency with other Republicans is always funneling money to the rich people.

And also, all the way back to Reagan, who said, government is the problem.

Problem government has never had a publicist to stand up and say, hey, wait a second, we're not the problem.

This is us.

This is the deep state, the bureaucrats.

This is what we do.

This is how we make your life better.

I think that's what your book is trying to do.

This is absolutely true.

The government is, in funny way, the opposite of Trump.

Trump has this unbelievable ability to take credit for all these things he never did.

And the government is doing all these incredible things that has no ability or instinct or inclination to sell itself.

But you know, Trump, he's a departure in some ways from Republicans because up until this point, I mean, the thing that caught my attention was when he, the moment he's elected,

he was by law required to build a transition team.

Hundreds of people who were supposed to go into the government.

That's a law.

The day, it's a law.

Yes.

And so Hillary Clinton had built one too.

And the Obama administration, by law,

had a thousand people for six months preparing briefings every which way.

And these aren't ideological things.

It's sort of like how the place works.

Like we dealt with the Ebola virus.

This is how we did it.

Right.

And no business works this way, where every four or eight years

you have to pass on all the infrastructure and how the operation works to a new group of people who don't really agree with you.

Absolutely.

The most critical institution on the face of the planet.

So you have, so you're supposed to come in the day after the election.

They're waiting for them in conference rooms at the Department of Commerce and the Department of the Treasury and so on and so forth.

Little finger sandwiches set out and parking spots set aside, expecting this wave of Trump people to come in and take the government over,

be briefed.

And no one shows up.

No one shows up.

Trump has fired the entire operation and said to Chris Christie, who would dissemble the operation, that we don't need that.

You and I can spend two hours at the Victory Party and we'll know everything we need to know about how to run the government.

Now, this is the beginning of

the most incredible.

I mean, this is different from other Republicans.

I mean, Obama was grateful for the way Bush had handed over the government.

But it's not that different in that it started with Reagan, this idea that government is bad, they are the problem.

This is true.

And that we would be better with less and less government.

So the idea that he's gutting the government, and he is, that goes back a long way.

And people think it's a good thing.

And again, they don't have someone to stand up.

I wish everyone would read this book.

This is absolutely.

Yeah.

And my question is, how, you know, this is the deep set.

How much gutting can go on?

How deep is your state?

I really want to know.

No, no.

It is a measure of how ignorant the American people now are of their government, government,

that they can be sold the idea there's such a thing as the deep state.

It's insane.

I mean, you know, I didn't have any particular predisposition or a pre-existing idea of who I was going to find when I started wandering around the government.

But they are the most extraordinary people who are still there doing the work, and the work is that important.

But Trump, so you're right, Reagan makes Trump possible.

This whole sales job that the government isn't important or the government's the problem enables him to neglect it.

And they're their own worst enemy in a way because they're so modest.

They don't brag about it.

They don't let you know.

They're so unsung that they don't even name the departments.

I learned a lot of this in your book.

With the name that applies to them.

So we don't know what they do.

The Department of Energy.

Yeah, no, that's a great question.

Guards the nukes.

The Department of Agriculture,

I thought mostly what they do is with farmers, but they do a million other things, a huge budget, $164 billion,

most of it not to do with farmers.

There's a drink.

Commerce.

It doesn't have to do with commerce.

They can't even get the friggin' name right.

They have a drinking game at the Department of Agriculture,

and the drinking game is: guess if the agriculture department does it, and if you guess wrong, you have to drink.

Because there's almost nothing it doesn't do.

What does it do?

Well, I mean,

they have their own Air Force.

There's a $250 billion bank inside the place.

They have the responsibility.

Food stamps.

Keeping geese

Tell Sully about that.

No, no, well, that's right.

But I mean, their Department of Agriculture employees run around with shotguns and fireworks at all the airports in America, make sure that

a goose doesn't fly into the...

And the people who took over these departments are people who, I mean, the performance art to me is Rick Perry.

You know, ran in 20...

That's something

that's trolling.

Ran on, I don't know what.

It's not fair.

It's such low-hanging fruit.

Don't know what this department is is or what it does, and now you're the secretary of it.

He says he wants to get rid of it.

Right.

He says he wants to get rid of it and can't remember its name.

And then finds out it's the Department of Nuclear Weapons.

It's the nuclear weapons.

Yes, right.

Yeah, the nuclear weapons.

And

all this basic scientific research that won't get done by industry that will secure our energy future.

No, he has.

No,

it's so obvious that the people who roll in with Trump are not all the Rick.

Rick Perry is in a funny way the benign end of things.

Right, because he's not really a grifter.

Right.

A lot of them are in there for the money, the Wilbur Rosses.

I mean, Trump we saw this week with 10 years of basically doing that thing where he would pretend to be a corporate raider, say, I'm going to buy the Vatican and Exxon and merge them.

And then the stock price would go up, and he wouldn't do it, but he'd collect, and then he'd sell.

No one has said, I don't understand about this.

This is essentially a pump and dump scheme.

I'm amazed that the SEC is not all over this.

I feel like he's doing it now with China.

If he tweets anything about his deals with China, he calls billionaires at night.

That's probably what he's telling them.

But

your bigger point, that who shows up, so who shows up when you've got a president who really does not care about the federal government?

He doesn't actually have the wit to be thinking, I'm going to dismantle the federal government.

That's all he's thinking.

He's thinking, I care about myself.

There's this thing I'm supposed to be running, but no one will notice if I don't.

So who shows up in that?

People show up are not people who are attracted to the mission because the mission's been abandoned.

The money.

Money.

So you find the most extraordinary cases of people who.

Who's the guy now who he wants to run the oceanic department?

This is unbelievable.

What's that department called?

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

Inside of it.

The weather, right?

The Weather Service.

Okay, the weather.

The Weather Service.

The Weather Service, which is one of the most spectacular stories, filled with people.

You talk about great public servants.

All these people, why do you go to work for the Weather Service?

Why are you obsessed with the weather to the extent you go and do this as opposed to go make money in the private sector?

It's all these people who were traumatized as children by some storm.

Exactly.

Absolutely.

They all have that story.

Like the hail broke my window.

Wow.

And

1,000 Dorothy Gale.

And they've done,

yes, and what they've done is unbelievable.

It's one of the great untold stories in intellectual history.

They have improved the weather forecast.

So 10 years ago,

your fifth-day forecast today is as good as

your one-day was 10 years ago.

Really?

Your hurricane forecast, I grew up in New Orleans, and we used to, you know, you'd figure out whether a hurricane was coming by going out and throwing a frisbee.

You know, no one could tell you whether the thing was going to show up or how big it was going to be.

And now you have all these elaborate warnings, thanks to them.

So who does he want this to be?

Who he wants?

AccuWeather.

The CEO of AccuWeather.

Which is the private.

Yeah, they're in the business of essentially repackaging the National Weather Service stuff.

And he has been on it.

The guy's name is Barry Myers, has been on a 20-year campaign to prevent the weather service from communicating with the American people unless he can do it for money.

Yeah, so he can do it for money.

Unless lives are not.

He's going to be the fox now to guard that henna.

It's the same story all over the government.

But it's sort of like there is a really nice, good

private sector.

All those people in the private sector say he is the worst guy among us to put in there.

I mean, of all of us, don't put it.

And so this has happened over and over.

They don't believe global warming is real, but they think the Weather's Girl tits are real.

You like that?

All right, we'll end there.

Thank you very much.

It's a great book.

Your books always are, Michael Lewis.

Glad we got you on the show.

All right, let's beat our panel.

All right, he's a senior columnist for the Daily Beast and CNN political contributor, Matt Lewis.

Who are you?

Very confusing.

Matt Lewis.

She was President Obama's State Department senior advisor and White House senior director.

Wow, she's on our show.

And he's now a host on Sirius XM Progress.

Naira Huck, great to have you back.

And he is the host of CNN's The Van Jones Show and the new docuseries, The Redemption Project, what airs on Sundays at 9.

Van Jones is over here.

Okay.

Don't forget to send us your questions for tonight's overtime so you can answer them after the show on YouTube.

Welcome, panel.

Another week in the failed state of Trump Landia.

Not sure what I can say anymore about this.

I feel like saying, does anyone else see what's going on here?

Let me just review.

I feel like we're in a permanent state of constitutional crisis now.

They say it every week now.

Taxes, no, you can't see his taxes.

Steve Mnuchin says there's no legitimate legislative purpose.

Not for him to say.

Not a thing.

Security clearances.

us for no, us to know, you to not find out.

Redacting the redacted Mueller report, executive privilege, again, not a thing, not a thing.

Deutsche Bank, they want those

documents.

They're suing for that.

That'll never happen.

So it's a constitutional crisis.

Democrats, either do something

or stop talking about it.

Because I think you're just making yourselves look weak.

You're just making yourselves look like people who talk and talk and don't do anything.

Who's with me or against me?

You know, it's, you know, part of the problem that we have now is that we have had this almost chicken little kind of dynamic on the left where it's like literally every tweet is like the end of the republic.

And so now that we are actually have arrived at that place, people don't take us seriously.

But I have to say, as one of the people who tried to be pretty calm about this stuff, you know, how do you eat a hamburger?

One bite at a time.

And what you're seeing now is one bite at a time, one bite at a time.

He's now, look, I got the whole hamburger.

Like a slow-moving coup.

I got the whole hamburger.

Somebody had said that years ago.

Could it have been you?

So, can I quote, Jerry Nadler said, if allowed to go unchecked, this obstruction means the end of congressional oversight.

And Adam Schiff says, if the administration continues this across-the-board refusal to comply, then we have no choice.

We're going to have to prosecute this through contempt.

Well, let me save you some time.

No if about about that.

It is going to continue.

And that's the constitutional crisis we're facing, right?

It's not just about whether or not Barr is going to lie in Congress or show up or not, it's whether or not Congress is going to do its job as the first branch of government.

They are Article 1.

The founders established them to be the group that was a check on tyranny.

So fast, I think they need to, Democrats need to be willing to arrest people who break the law.

Arrest.

So wait.

And there's precedent for that.

Who does that?

So there's precedent.

at arms would.

Interestingly enough, under George Bush, when Republicans controlled Congress and the Ways and Means Committee

ranking member, a Democrat, decided he didn't want to show up for a hearing out of protest, they went and arrested him and made him show up.

If they can do it for that, if you can leverage the sergeant at the same time.

The same guy, the sergeant-at-arms.

Do we know who this man is?

Capital Police.

Again,

this is the test that they are facing.

Are they going to be willing to defend the balance of government and our systems of checks and balances with all the power they have and maintain what the framers wanted.

See, I think this, I don't think there's a constitutional crisis at all.

We just had two years of the MOLA report where there was this investigation.

All of America sat and watched this happen.

And at the end of the day, they couldn't prove collusion and they didn't basically make a determination on obstruction of justice.

We have an election coming.

We have an election coming up in 2020 where this could obviously be litigated.

And I would also say, look, I do think there is a thing called executive privilege and there's also a thing called

substitution.

Neither of them are in the constitutional crisis.

It's not this, though.

It's about having private conversations between the president and his advisors.

That's what obstructive privilege.

This will be adjudicated in the courts and that's why it's not a constitutional crisis.

crisis.

There is a remedy for figuring this out.

There's an election coming up.

But he doesn't understand the way it it works or the courts.

He said this week, he said, if the Democrats tried to impeach me, I'd go right to the Supreme Court.

Again, not a thing.

But if they said the Supreme Court has nothing to do with that, if Democrats actually had the guts to start impeachment proceedings.

Right.

And why aren't they doing that?

Well, because it's not a now or never argument.

That's the focus that's on the second part, volume two.

You look at volume one, 39 indictments, 114 contacts with Russians, all sorts of information there that's effectively

the roadmap, the blueprint for how to attack a country, how a foreign government can invade us.

And that's the part that Democrats can peel away the layers because they are entitled to, as committee chairpeople, all of the underlying evidence.

Do that in open testimony.

Have that come out.

If you need to start impeachment, then start it.

Run out the clock.

So Donald Trump cannot avoid this until he is up for election.

We have a separation of powers.

There's an executive branch and there's a legislative branch.

And it's not at all clear that you can just subpoena somebody from the executive branch and haul them before Congress.

The courts will decide that.

But if the Democrats, they want to have their cake and eat it too.

They don't actually want to begin impeachment proceedings because they think it's a political loser.

If they're serious about this, then try to impeach him.

Look, I think that your way is the right way to go forward.

But here's the thing, I think we...

What's his way?

Well, no, I'm saying her way.

We should not impeach.

Keep him tied up and move toward the impeachment.

But But let me just say something else there.

You know who's happy about all this?

Putin.

Part of what we have to understand is that from the very beginning, Putin made a bet that if he threw enough marbles on the stairs, enough banana peels on the sidewalk, we would start falling all over each other as a country.

And that's what's actually happening.

So part of what we have lost sight of in this whole thing is we are under attack from a foreign power.

We are under attack from a foreign power, and the commander-in-chief is derelict in his duty.

And we know all that.

What about our side?

What are we doing?

These are things we know already.

Putin's bad.

Republicans suck.

I don't care anymore about that.

I don't care what we are doing.

And by the way, to your point that Mueller didn't find it this week, this is important.

720, it's up to 720.

It keeps going up like every time I look at it.

It's like Jerry Lewis's telethon machine.

720 former federal prosecutors have signed a statement that said, each of us believes the conduct of President Trump in the special counsel report would, in the case of any person not covered by the policy against indicting a setting president, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.

And I love this line.

We emphasize that these are not matters of close professional judgment.

In other words, no-brainer.

This is what I said two weeks ago.

Mueller shit the bed.

He fucked it up.

He was the chance.

He was the guy.

He didn't do it.

Now we're in this mess.

What's the next move?

What's the plan, Stan?

She just giggled the plan.

That's not a good one.

Well, no, but here's what I'm saying.

That's what we're doing.

Clapping is not solving.

How about the fact that

the fact that there's an election in a year?

I agree.

That's too late.

Frankly, that's too late.

What about impeaching quickly?

Like, do it, like, get it over with.

Don't drag it out.

So, the trick, the challenge that

what Democrats have to navigate, what they're trying, what they have to navigate, not whether or not they want to, what they have to navigate is that the House runs impeachment proceedings right they do the trial the senate then votes on it right so you want to avoid having the senate vote while Donald Trump is still in office because the Republicans will shut it down the trick is going to be

shut the trial down no they'll just they'll just say that okay it didn't go like they're gonna vote against it they're gonna vote against remote right he's not gonna get convicted correct right

my bigger worry

because they're afraid of the political ramifications because a lot of Americans out there are gonna say look this is double jeopardy.

This guy's already in the middle of the morning.

No, but this is how you lead.

This is how you lead the country is you show the fact, listen, less than 1% of Americans have read the Mueller report, right?

Like nerds like us maybe have, but Congress's job is to make sure that everybody understands through their transparency and open hearing exactly what volume one, all of the Russian attacks meant, and how Donald Trump and his team were involved, and volume two, what was the obstruction of justice involved.

Mueller literally said, he referred, he said, Congress has the authority to check the corruption of the president.

He gave them the layup, and it's time for Congress.

They're afraid to impeach him because it's going to help him if they do.

Also, because it's going to be...

I just want to say, that's the myth.

People keep saying that if you impeach, it's going to be this horrible disaster.

And what do they point to?

They point to Bill Clinton.

Hold on a second.

Bill Clinton got impeached, and in the next election, the Republicans actually won.

So there's this myth out there that nobody wants to deal with, which is the fact that the Republicans, after impeaching Bill Clinton unjustly over a blowjob, kept the House, kept kept the Senate, and got the White House.

So you can impeach.

It's not a political thing, but you have to prepare the country.

And that report you're correct.

The trial happens in the Senate.

That's run by the Republicans.

That's Mitch McConnell, who has beat the Republicans of the Democrats' ass at every turn.

Remember Merrick Garland?

Okay, what is he going to do

if the trial is in his court?

It's going to make them look bad.

Right, so the play is not to let it even get there, and it's to draw.

Well, then it's not to impeach.

No, you can start impeachment proceedings in the House, right?

So you run out the clock effectively.

It's not, it has to be over tomorrow.

The other thing that happened this week, I mentioned, this is just crazy, is that we found out that Trump lost more money than anybody, the business genius, lost.

This is like if Eisenhower was president, we found out he lost World War II.

And his supporters said he let Hitler win because he's smart.

You know how much that earns?

That's $11,000 a day that he lost for 10 years.

But

he told us he was going to do this, right?

He told us he was going to run the country like he ran his business.

He told the truth about something.

He told the truth.

We have a problem.

That's good.

He also said nobody does debt better than I do.

Right?

And I know how to manipulate the tax code.

So he was upfront about that, that part.

But why don't the

people.

He said, if you could, I could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue.

Yeah.

And he could.

Because it's never been about logical consistency or good governance with this guy and his fault, right?

It's not about conservative principles or values.

Clearly, if it was, we wouldn't have record deficits right now, because that's a classic conservative issue.

But why don't.

It's the emotional appeal, and going back to what you said, that's what Putin managed to manipulate is like our vulnerabilities, our cultural, how we feel about each other, how we talk to each other.

That's what Trump also manipulates on a day-to-day basis.

And people will literally, people who like him, like farmers who are getting hurt by the trade war and losing contracts overseas, will still vote for him.

Why?

But why?

Why?

I don't know.

I was like, you're trying to logically explain why people cut off their nose to spike their face.

I don't know.

It's a culture war.

It's like, what's the matter with Kansas or whatever, right?

I mean, this isn't about like, well, you know,

who's the best person or who's going to maybe even make me more money?

It's about...

But, I I mean, here's his tweet on this.

He says, real estate developers in the 80s and 90s were entitled to massive write-offs.

Already I'm angry.

Already, why aren't they pissed off at that?

And would show losses and tax losses in almost all cases.

You always wanted to show losses for tax purposes and often renegotiate with the banks.

It was sport.

It was sport?

They stuck it to the man.

They got away with it.

That's what you said.

Yeah, that's what you said.

Got away with it.

But I feel like this is, remember that phrase, defining deviancy downward?

So many examples this week.

There's this thing, Rudy Giuliani is in Ukraine,

like now they're openly, before it was a little bit of a state, openly trying to get a foreign power to meddle in our election.

And he said, there's nothing illegal about it.

Some could say it's improper.

That's their slogan.

Not illegal, just improper.

Trump was at a rally the other day and he said, how do we stop these people, meaning the immigrants?

Somebody yelled out, shoot them.

And he said, that's ridiculous.

Please leave.

I'm joking.

He said,

he said, you can only make that statement in the panhandle.

I don't get, okay.

Let's bring out Tim.

He's

a congressman here.

He's the Democratic Congressman representing Ohio's 13th District, and he's got all the answers for you.

And because he's a 2020 candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, Tim Ryan, Tim Ryan, come on out here and give us the answers.

We got all the answers, Tim.

All right.

So you're running for president.

Yes, I am.

Just you, I understand.

Yes, I'm all by myself.

No, you're one of 22.

It's like speed dating at this point.

Yes, yes.

So, okay, so you're running for president.

You're on HBO here.

You got a big audience.

Yes.

Right?

You got my audience, which is a lot more open-minded than most audiences.

Yes.

It's true.

Why you?

Why you and not the other 21 losers?

You said it, not me.

I've got not only a plan, but I understand what the American people are going through.

I hear all this happy talk about the economy, the stock market's up, the unemployment rate's down.

The reality of it is, most people are still struggling to make ends meet.

I've been living that for the last 45 years outside of Youngstown, Ohio.

Thank you.

We got one everywhere, I'm telling you.

And I've been studying, trying to figure out how do we get this economy working for working class people.

I mean, we've got...

But aren't they all saying this?

No.

I'm asking you why you're different.

I'm telling me what every one of them says.

No, but here's where I'm different.

Okay.

I know what direction we need to go in.

I know where the economy is going.

Where?

It's, well, right now.

What do you know they don't know?

Right now, nowhere.

But we've got to get in.

I'll tell you a quick question.

The economy is not horrible.

4.4% is the unemployment rate in Ohio.

It's kind of hard to run against the economy in Ohio, isn't it?

No.

Because, you know, the average wage has only gone up 20 bucks a week.

But it originally went up big.

This is not working.

Wages did finally rise.

After a few years.

After how many years?

Okay.

After how many decades.

All right, but Trump is president for two years.

We can't ignore that fact.

Finally, wages went up.

He's the guy in the office at that time.

He's going to to run off.

You feel better.

I'll go back two weeks ago and talk about a General Motors plant just laid off 1,700 people.

I'll talk about a trucking company just laid off 600 people.

You know how they found out?

A text message.

I'm telling you, Bill, this is the underlying issue in the country.

But I'm trying to get to that one Democrat.

I said this last week on this show.

I said, I feel owned.

You know how they always say they own the libs?

Yeah.

I mean, when you talk about this shit where they can't do anything, I feel owned.

And I don't like that feeling.

So I'm looking for that Democrat who'll make me not feel owned.

I'm looking for the Democrat who's going to stand up to the Twitter mob.

Are you willing to do that, to stand up to the people who are woke?

Well,

here's...

Look at that.

Even an LA audience wants to stand up to the woke.

Winning this election is going to be about who's got the plan for the future on the economy.

Listen to what I got to say.

I know, but you didn't answer the question.

Listen, yes, of course I am.

You're going to stand up to the Defense.

Look at it.

I've taken on Republicans.

I've taken on Democrats.

I'm not afraid.

I represent my people.

And right now, my people have not had a fair deal.

It's not going back a few years.

It's going back 40 years.

Wages are still, they're creeping up 20 bucks a week, and the president's running around saying there's a boom in the economy.

They still got debt.

They still got credit card debt.

They still got student loan debt.

Look, we need to move into the future economy.

There's about one to two million electric vehicles today being made.

In the next 10 years, there's going to be 30 million electric vehicles made.

I want those made in the United States.

I want the batteries made in the United States.

I want the charging stations made in the United States.

That's how you get it.

And

will you tell the people, there's coal people in your state, coal, right?

Yeah.

Will you tell them, coal is last century.

We are moving on.

We'll retrain you.

We'll help you.

But we're not sending you back down into the hole.

Will you tell them that?

Well, they know that better than anybody.

But that's not what they vote for.

They love Trump, who says, I'm sending you back into the hole.

You guys can't sell.

We'll get you out of the hole.

No, look, one, we didn't even go into states like that.

We didn't go into rural environments.

Hillary did.

And then we turn around and then we say, why don't these people vote for us?

Because we don't go there.

Let's go into these communities, tell them that they're going to be building electric vehicles, tell them they're going to be building solar panels, tell them they're going to be wind turbines.

And when you look at the president, he keeps talking about China.

China dominates 40% of the electric vehicle market.

They dominate 60% of the solar panel market.

We've got no plan.

So, as president, I'm going to have a plan for how we dominate these.

That's a good example.

We were talking about it before.

Tariffs

came out today.

Trump is putting more tariffs on China.

It's going to make our goods cost more.

He doesn't seem to understand that, but I read in the paper: furniture, air conditioners, handbags, fish, soap, fruit, pet food, everything.

We're going to teach these Chinese a lesson.

We have had it up to here with you making the shit we buy.

Okay, so I keep reading, we're paying more, it's hurting his and mostly his voters.

Democrats can't make that an issue.

You can't sell people on he's costing you money.

They are hurting.

I mean, we're not running the election just now.

But they're not leaving him.

Well, they don't have a chance yet.

We've got to go and talk to those people.

We've got to have a rural agenda.

We've got to, in places like Iowa and Ohio and Michigan and some of these other places, we've got to go there and tell them we we care about them, that they're not deplorable, that we like them, that we love them, and we're going to rebuild their community.

And here are the jobs that are going to come.

And here's the other thing we got to stop talking about.

They say, Democrats, what's your economic plan?

Say $15 an hour.

Nobody wants to make $15 an hour.

That's a social justice issue.

People where I come from were making 30, 40 bucks an hour.

Now they're making 15 an hour.

That's not where they want to be.

We've got to have a bigger agenda, a more aspirational agenda.

Every Democrat gets asked the question about.

You just won.

You just got some votes.

Okay.

So every Democrat gets asked the question about socialism.

And I would love to hear a Democrat just say, well, we are already a quasi-socialist country.

Yeah.

You weren't expecting that.

They just love to applaud.

We're a quasi-socialist country, and that's good, but it's probably enough.

Is that your position?

Yes.

You're not on the social media.

I'm saying that we need to fix the capitalistic system.

Period, end of story.

And I'll tell you,

if you want to reverse climate change, you better align the environmental incentives with the financial incentives.

If we don't use the power of our free market

If we don't use the power of our free market, if we don't use the powerful venture capital community that we have in the United States to try to decarbonize our country, we're not going to to get there in time.

This needs to be an urgent, urgent matter.

Just to make sure that

you don't go wobbly on that issue about standing up to the Twitter folks.

Okay, this is last week a poll from Morning Consult.

That's Politico's polling arm, very respected.

65% of adults agree people should be able to say what they really think, even if it offends people.

81% of adults agree these days people are offended too easily.

Preach it.

What?

Preach it.

I'm preaching it.

10% of users who are most active in terms of tweeting are responsible for 80% of all tweets.

It's not who we are.

It's not who liberals are.

The Democrat who stands, I'm telling you, who stands up to that quack

will win.

So

my vote anyway.

Where are you on that, Van Jones?

I'm very intimidated tonight, aren't I?

I was like, tonight's a hurricane iron.

They're scaring everybody tonight.

They need to be scared.

Wake them up.

Wake them up.

When I'm on the trail or when I'm back home, it is a completely different conversation in Ohio than it is

on social media.

Because I'm on the trail too.

It's a stand-up.

Around the country.

They think we're crazy on the coast in Ohio, just chattering about bullshit all the time.

Well, that's what I'm talking about, the economy piece.

People are.

What I like about you is that you're you're actually pointing out real jobs and real industries that

somebody could actually get that job, do that job, get that contract, and actually make the country better.

And if you keep talking like that, I think a lot of people are going to be very happy to hear from you.

Okay, so

let me go back to polling a little bit.

This was very interesting, Quinnipi Act.

70% of voters say they are open to electing a gay president.

Since we have Pete Buttigedges, you know, he's doing great.

Oh, look at that.

I like them too.

Bet you wish you were gay now, huh?

I have an announcement to make.

You at least hate yourself for being white.

Come on.

Okay.

So, but this is really interesting.

70% say they're open to electing a gay president, but only 36% think the country is ready.

And this important comparison, February 2007, 69% versus 36 for ready for gay thought the country was ready to elect Barack Obama a black president.

78% of Americans in 2015 ready for a woman president.

So

maybe a reality check on where we are with the gay issue in all of America.

But this issue moves at light speed.

In other words, don't forget in 2012, even Barack Obama was afraid to say that he was for marriage equality.

Correct.

He said it for himself personally, but not for the country.

And within four years, by 2016, we had transgender people in the Democratic platform.

This issue is moving at light speed.

Also, when you look at somebody like a Mayor Pete,

the level at which he is comfortable with himself, with his story, is just, it's unbelievable to watch audiences who you know for sure, if you asked them before he started talking, would say they couldn't see it.

When he gets finished talking, they can see it.

This issue is not like any other issue I've seen in my lifetime.

Mayor Pete.

Mayor Pete could be elected president of the United States.

What if they see him?

What if they see him kiss his husband full on the mouth?

Listen,

here's the deal.

I'm sorry.

He's not threatening in the way that Barack Obama wasn't threatening to many people, right?

He's very articulate and clean-cut.

Listen, I worked in the Obama primaries and I was like, oh, no, no, I believe in this guy, but America's not ready.

And the only Democrat to get elected in the last 20 years was a black man.

So we have to really confront what we think is electable and doable as a country.

And frankly, coming into 2020, it is whoever is the direct contrast to Trump.

So it's the veteran Rhodes Scholar from Middle America who happens to be gay, or it's the prosecutor who's a mother and a biracial relationship who happens to be a black woman.

It's changing, but it needs to be votes not based on fear of what everybody else in America may do, but the change we actually want to see.

I think people have

I think these people have a higher

highly of themselves as evolved people than they do of

those people out there.

I'm good with it.

These other animals.

But if he wins

Iowa, that's what Barack Obama had to do.

He had to win Iowa, and then

it changed.

It's just a little different issue because this is, first of all, let's be honest, a religious issue.

The main reason why people are against anything homosexual is because it's in the Bible.

And that includes liberals.

Well, I will tell you that opposition to desegregation was also rooted in the Bible.

And they talked about the curse of ham, et cetera.

So listen,

we've got to be able to do that.

Opposition to Donald Trump is rooted in the Bible, too, and evangelicals managed to overcome that.

It's the rise of the religion.

It's the resurgence of a religious left, right?

That's using religious values to appreciate humanitarianism, coming together as a community, and that would be nice to be seeing from the religious community in America.

Okay, so Gallup said today, I can't believe this one, 60% of Americans said they are willing to vote for an atheist.

Are you?

Am I?

Willing to vote for an atheist.

Okay.

I know we don't agree on that issue.

I don't know.

That's because I'm a Christian.

Doesn't mean I'm a bigot.

I mean,

no.

I'm so glad.

Well, most people don't even see hating on atheists as bigotry yet.

And here's an area where I think Trump actually

has changed norms in a good way.

I think that

before Donald Trump, evangelicals, certainly Christians, said, we want to vote for people who are like us, who believe like us.

Donald Trump, the thrice married casino magnate

with a porn store.

They love him.

And so that's obviously, there's some bad side to that, of course, but maybe the good side is that people are saying, I'm going to vote for the best person who has the right policies that I agree with, who has the right temperament.

Well, okay.

You would have supported an atheist?

Sure.

Okay, great.

I mean, it's

more

ethics.

Where are you?

We should have more representation.

We're like 23% of the country are atheist agnostic, and we have zero in Congress.

You could be number one.

Zero on this issue.

You could be number 20.

I'm not going there.

Before we run out of time, I know your passion is prison reform.

What's going on with that?

What's on your show coming up?

Well, good.

I mean, we got the first step back passed.

We got a

bipartisan criminal justice bill.

Yay, you clap for it.

The reality is 25,000 people this year alone going through the federal system are going to have shorter sentences than they would have because we came together as Democrats and Republicans and finally got something done.

25,000.

25,000 people.

That's not much considering the whole prison population.

No, listen,

183,000 people in the federal system and it's a federal bill.

And so 25,000 people going in having short, that's a big deal.

And also there have been six copycat bills already at the state level.

So we're moving in a positive direction.

I have a show called the Redemption Project that's trying to have this conversation about people coming home and we have to get to a place right now you were talking about the Twitter stuff it's over in terms of grace, compassion, empathy, any kind of listening.

It's all cancel culture.

It's call-out culture.

My show, The Redemption Project, goes 180 degrees in the opposite direction.

And we find people who've gone to prison for bad stuff, who want to make amends.

We find the people that they hurt, and we let them have a conversation together, face to face.

We film it.

It is beautiful.

It's powerful.

It's a medicine in a very sick culture.

I hope people watch it.

Okay, well, I didn't know it would be that big of a plug, but great to thank you.

Happy.

Thank you, Jeff Jones.

Thank you, panel.

It's time for New Rules, everybody.

All right, new rule.

When I get in my car, the phone has to stop telling me it knows where I'm going.

42 minutes to work?

Well, maybe I'm not going to work.

Maybe I'm headed up the PCH with the top down, and I'm driving all night to Reno to gamble.

Okay, you're right, I'm going to work.

New Roll, stop trying to get Trump's taxes with your selling laws.

Let's not tie up Congress and the Treasury with lawsuits that could take forever.

Settle this once and for all with a staring contest.

We get Nancy Pelosi, and you get Judge Janine Pira.

Okay, forget that, you win.

New Roll, the factories that used to make America's TV tables have to reopen and make a table where you eat while you look at your phone.

This way you can watch ASMR while eating KFC.

I had to bring it back once.

All right.

New Roll, parents complaining that their kids are obsessed with Korean boy bands, even though they can't understand the words, have to tell me, can you understand the words to this?

For all anybody knows, that's in Korean too.

New rule, hotels must lose the TV channel that tells you about the hotel.

Don't show me a commercial for the hotel.

I'm already here.

Hotels aren't that complicated.

The coffee makers on the bureau, the ice machines down the hall, and the hotel bar is full of married men on Grinder.

It's actually very true.

I can't tell you how I know, but it's true.

And finally, new rule, Melania Trump must do what dozens of buildings around the world have done and take the Trump name off.

So far,

so far, over a dozen Republican candidates tried to stop Trump and couldn't.

Hillary couldn't.

Never Trumpers couldn't.

Mueller couldn't.

Is there anyone left who can check Donald Trump?

Yes, Melania.

It's not anti-feminist to say that in addition to doing everything men can do intellectually, women also have another power, the power of the ultimatum.

Getting men to change their destructive ways by threatening to leave them, humiliate them, or cut them off in bed,

it's a tale as old as time.

In the ancient Greek play Lysistrata, women end a war by denying sex to their men.

It was the original Bush doctrine.

Melania, the world needs you.

President Hellboy has proved to be impervious to facts, reason, shame, and the law.

But maybe if you left him for another man, especially if that man was Mexican,

maybe he would implode on his own.

Maybe it falls to you now, Melania.

You can end this reign of terror, and all you have to do is channel your inner Taylor Swift and walk out the door.

You know, you want to.

Your unhappiness is obvious.

You despise his creepy little monkey fingers touching your hand.

So kick him to the curb.

Slap away that hand for good.

No more public embarrassment, no more porn stars, no more stealing your makeup.

Toss his boxy clown suits on the front lawn.

Just tell him, I'm leaving you and I'm taking our child.

He would be stunned.

We have a child?

Now, I know I'm probably dreaming and Milani isn't going to do any of this, but what if she had someone to do it with?

Divorce is always easier in pairs.

What if you had a buddy, Melania?

Because there's another former model who's also married to a super-rich Republican monster, Mrs.

Rupert Murdoch Jerry Hall.

And you two have a lot in common.

Your husbands are ruining the world.

Jerry, you're married to the man who runs Fox News.

You're married to the man who made Brexit happen, the man who got Trump elected and keeps his base ignorant, the man who killed Australia's carbon tax.

I know he's rich, but is it worth Western civilization?

You used to be married to Mick Jagger, and now you're married to a guy who looks like Keith Richards let himself go.

You went from start me up to make a dead man come.

From jumping jack flash to a guy with gas, gas, gas.

Jerry, you left Mick because he was fucking everything that moved, but Rupert's fucking the whole planet.

The axis of evil in the world now is Trump and Fox News.

We have a government propaganda channel now.

It's impossible to even tell who's wearing the head in this horse costume.

Trump hears some demonstrously false nonsense from some crank guest on Fox and tweets it out as fact.

Or he gets a brain for it and bilges it out at a rally and Fox backs that up.

They're on this insane feedback loop.

They're like that couple that keeps giving each other herpes.

So, girls,

you gotta step up.

We have tried everything, but the more we resist these two menaces, the stronger they get.

They're like the Night King in Game of Thrones.

Only instead of commanding an army of brain-dead zombies,

okay, they're exactly like the Night King.

But I'm telling you, cavemen like Trump and Murdoch can't handle one thing, an ego lashing.

Rupert has been married four times, Trump three.

Some guys just can't be alone.

It's like how some guys get used to being in prison.

They can't make it on the outside.

They need to be married.

When you're Donald Trump, wives don't leave you.

You leave them.

He would fall apart if she ever said, Donald, there's nothing keeping me here.

I can't love what you have become, and I found where you hid my passport.

Imagine how nuts he would go if he had to see her in the press all the time.

The Trump divorce, how Melania lost 200 pounds of flab.

Melania, better than ever, says, I've never felt more not dead inside.

Melania on Oscar de La Jolla, best sex I ever had.

All right, that's our show.

I'll be at the Fox Theater in Detroit, June 22nd at the Washington Pavilion in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

Wow, August 18th.

I want to thank my guests, Matt Lewis, DeAir Huck, Van Jones, Tim Ryan, and Michael Lewis.

Stay tuned for overtime on YouTube.

Thank you, folks.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10, or watch him anytime on HBO On Demand.

For more information, log on to HBO.com.