Ep. #485: Rahm Emanuel, John Legend

Charlie Sheen is an icon of decadence.

I lit the fuse and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

He's going the distance.

He was the highest paid TV star of all time.

When it started to change, it was quick.

He kept saying, no, no, no, I'm in the hospital now, but next week I'll be ready for the show.

Now, Charlie's sober.

He's gonna tell you the truth.

How do I present this with any class?

I think we're past that, Charlie.

We're past that, yeah.

Somebody call action.

Aka Charlie Sheen, only on Netflix, September 10th.

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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night Series, Real Time with Bill Ma.

Start the clock.

These are hopped up people.

Try to remain calm.

It's a national emergency, haven't you heard?

Yes, he did it.

Fucko did it today.

He declared a national emergency.

He was in the rose garden in the morning.

You could tell this is when he normally has executive time because he was still in curlers.

And this was just completely crackers.

I know I've said that before, but this was just one long, baseless, incoherent stream of consciousness called a nursing home.

rant.

I mean, we don't, you know, we don't even notice anymore when he gets stupider.

stupider.

It's like farting on a garbage ship.

Who notices?

You know who should have declared a national emergency long ago?

Fact checkers.

There's no reality anymore.

I mean, reporters were asking him questions.

At one point, he said to a reporter who gave him statistics from his own administration, and he said, you really believe stats?

Yes, I do.

I mean there is nothing really left to say about this except a national emergency should not be used by Trump.

It should be used on Trump.

And just

to refresh your memory why we're in this little bit of a pickle.

We had a government shutdown, remember that?

Over the wall.

And now we're having having a national emergency declared over a wall because the master negotiator was offered $25 billion for his wall some time ago.

Turn that down

in December.

He was offered $1.6 billion.

Turn that down.

Now they signed a deal for $1.3 billion.

Today, Mexico said, Fuck, if it gets any lower, maybe we will pay for it.

And, you know, Trump promised his supporters over a thousand miles, a big, beautiful wall.

He got 55 miles of a fence.

And did you see this?

They have changed the slogan from build the wall to finish the wall.

Because he told them, he said, I've already built a wall, a lot of wall, he's built no wall.

But he tells them that, and they've changed the slogan.

You know, Monday is President's Day.

We've gone from, I cannot tell a lie to, I cannot tell when I'm lying.

And

this thing about just telling the people you've done it.

I know we're not supposed to say they're stupid.

But Ann Coulter is saying that about them.

I mean, are we really at the point now where we can just change reality by changing the chant?

I mean, it's like if Queen saying, we did rock you.

Oh, yes, we did.

We have already rocked you.

I don't know.

I mean,

it's madness.

Things haven't even gotten started, and he's already moved on to finishing.

And Melania said, welcome to my world.

Oh, that's terrible.

Oh, we laugh, don't we?

But, you know, this is fundamental, really serious democracy hanging by a thread kind kind of stuff.

It is.

It's more of that slow-moving coup that I keep talking about.

The rule since 1787 in this country has been: Congress is the one who decides how we spend the money, okay?

Trump found a line somewhere in America's laws that said yes, except if a president declares a national emergency.

Now, of course, the only thing that stopped all the other presidents from doing this before it is that they had some respect for what our country is built on.

But

But one weapon that does not work on this president is saying good people wouldn't do that.

It's like using sarcasm on Siri.

But you know, turning America into a monarchy, that's not something you can do all by yourself.

Mitch McConnell.

Mitch McConnell, right, said, you know, first he was against this.

Then he said, you know what, if you want to go completely around Congress, Mr.

President, you have my support.

Wow, I thought Hannity was a submissive bitch.

And

I say we get an immigrant in there to do Mitch McConnell's job.

Because apparently upholding the Constitution is a job Americans just don't want to do.

All right, we sound good.

We got a great show.

Paul Bagala, Maya Wiley, and David Frum are here.

And a little later he's speaking with our friend John Legend is back, Steve.

How about that?

Okay.

But first up, he is the two-term mayor of Chicago and former White House Chief of Staff.

He's done it all.

Mayor Rob Emmanuel of Chicago.

Hello.

You have done it all.

Okay.

Welcome, Mr.

Mayor, and I guess I won't be able to call you that much longer.

You are not running for a third term as the Mayor of Chicago, right?

When is your term end?

May 20th.

You're counting the days, I bet.

10 o'clock.

Not that I want that.

No, you deserve a break.

I mean, you've been in the battle since the beginning.

I mean, you're in the Clinton White House chief of staff for Obama.

That's a killer job.

You think?

You tell me, but you must be tired, and you earned a break.

Doesn't he earn a break?

I know.

One serious thing, though, as a son and a grandson of an immigrant, to serve two presidents, Congress, mayor of the city that welcomed my grandfather,

greatest city, greatest country in the world, can't be anywhere else in the world, that you can be the son of an immigrant and become the mayor of the city that you are a grandfather.

Great thing.

Who is here to argue with that?

We can find somebody.

I don't think you have to argue with that, right?

But so what is your take on the national emergency?

What should be the strategy?

If you were in the White House, as you were with Obama, you would have to come up with a strategy to combat this.

Well, first of all, no, because our President wouldn't do this.

No,

no, no, no, I know.

So here's the first and foremost.

And I think that people have got to ⁇ you have a faux constitutional crisis to basically cover up a real campaign crisis.

This is all about the campaign, some pledge you made.

And so what you have now,

and I think that the direct approach and the right thing to do, you want to stop drugs?

You want to stop narcotics?

No.

Declare a national emergency.

Declare a national emergency on opiates.

Opiates are killing people.

They're manufactured here.

So that's what we should declare emergency for.

Okay, so now, but I mean, and then the other thing is

I think what we have to do is actually the whole strategy is, and there's an opening here,

and that is when you have a pincer and you have to create a pincer campaign against Trump and the base of the Republican Party, because they're not for this.

And now for the first time, remember, his base is not for this.

No, because the

Ann Coulter.

No, there's more than just her.

I'm talking about people that in the members of the House and Senate and the true people that believe in that if you give the President, they know Democrats are going to one day get back there, if you start to lower the bar of what becomes a national emergency, you're giving authority to the chief of staff.

And so I would drive a wedge between the right now, the only thing holding up the president is the fact that he's cowed the entire Republicans.

Right.

And start driving that wedge there to weaken him going into 2020.

That's what the Democrats need, a wedge driver like you.

Some other adjectives have been used to distract.

No, I know.

No, you're a tough guy, and we like that.

You asked me what the strategy was.

Yeah, I know.

I think that's a good question.

The biggest thing you want is divided-based president going into 2020.

Now, I'm a big fan of Nancy Pelosi.

I'm so glad when everyone was whispering in my ear, oh, they need new leadership.

You should know.

I said no.

And it's we agreed on that.

Yes.

And she's doing amazing.

And she proved it.

Yes.

This is why you don't need a rookie sitting across from McConnell or Donald Trump.

Speaker Seth Moulton would not have done as well.

Okay.

So, but she said today, I think it was today, these days go by so quickly, with some.

Sometimes you want them to go by.

Yeah.

She floated the idea out there, if it was a different president, maybe we would declare a national emergency on guns.

I don't think this is good politics

for the next election.

A lot of people just vote on guns, and it sounds like, oh, the Democrats are licking their chops to declare in a national emergency on guns.

Go ahead.

I was going to say.

I was showing restraint.

It's a restraint.

I know for me.

But I know.

But it may be a crisis, guns, but it's not a national emergency.

We can't be as bad as them, right?

100%.

I think that the one thing you don't want to mimic their politics.

And there are times, in fact, you want to show the strength, but on this case, I would not say we're going to declare this emergency, that emergency.

People don't like this.

They're not for what's going on here.

They'll see through it.

Actually, I have confidence in the American people.

They'll see this for what it is.

and they'll reject it.

And the idea is not to lower.

He wants you, on certain cases, to actually mimic what he's doing because then there's a a difference of nothing.

That's not where you want to go against him.

So how do we break this cycle between the two parties that we've been in for such a long time?

I mean they go back to Bork and then Clinton was impeached for really what we don't think he should have been impeached for and they know better.

And then they think Bush was handled very unfairly.

And then Obama of course was handled unfairly and they wouldn't need that.

You get to a point where Mitch McConnell says, we're not even going to consider everything, we're going to block everything.

And if we do get rid of Trump, Trump, those people who are his supporters are not going to go away.

They're just going to want revenge.

You're a mayor.

You break cycles and things.

How do you break this cycle?

Well, there is an ⁇ well, there's a couple of things I think that actually were ⁇ I actually think what Donald Trump had, if I'm an optimist, is actually reignited a civic pride and civic engagement in the country that we haven't seen.

His legacy will be people are getting involved.

Yes, and

in a level we could not do before.

The second thing, and this is what I would call for the country, I mean, I'm not running and don't want to run, we need national service again to reignite the threads that unite us as citizens in this country and people committing again to serve to the country.

I actually think the way you don't do this is retribution.

I actually think that American people, especially the young, want to be lifted up to higher ideals.

And I think that's a place to go for the party.

And I think that one of our nominees will actually touch that flame and ignite it in the way that Kennedy did.

And who do you think that nominee will be?

That's what the the voters will pick.

And you know what I know about campaigns, having gone six for six?

They reveal character.

How to get that in.

They reveal character.

People will lift the hood, kick the tires,

look at the oil, and we will find, people forget this, both Barack Obama, President Clinton, two people I work for, were not seen as the frontrunners.

They emerge as a frontrunner and they will be able to show they can take a punch and deliver a punch.

They'll be able to raise the country to the level and then we go mono-nomano against Trump.

Speaking of lift.

And you can't see it on paper.

You can't see it on paper.

It will happen.

And that person will emerge.

In the debates.

Through the campaign.

I see.

Through the campaign.

They will do things, and you will start to see Ronald Reagan in his moment.

I paid for this microphone.

It became a moment that captured his character.

And there will be that moment.

Okay.

What do you think the governor of Virginia should do?

Well,

I mean, I'm going to say, here's what I think.

You seem nervous about that.

No, I don't.

I don't buy that that's not his photo.

I think that is his photo.

Yes, exactly.

And

it's wrong.

We all agree on that.

Okay.

Now, what I think, though, is that what I do know and reading a lot of history, you take Barack Obama.

He wasn't for gay marriage at first.

He integrated the armed forces so gay and lesbians could serve the country they love and not be judged by the person they love.

President Lincoln didn't go fight the war to end slavery.

It was for the Union.

Came to be the great emancipator.

I think Wortham, part of civil rights, part of any change, is maturity and evolution.

He is now going to be the greatest fighter for civil rights because he has something to prove his character.

So I don't know where this notion is.

And And he was a pretty good one, which is why

58% of African Americans in Virginia want him to stay on the job.

Exactly.

And because they also got health care.

He got Medicare through.

So my point is, but on all these things, the notion that you disagree with somebody, the answer is you're fired.

The fact is, he has evolved.

And he has something now.

If you want somebody, there's nothing like a convert.

He is going to have a zealotry to prove something because he has the campaign of his reputation.

And to my view, is he has something to show.

And you can't, this notion, Virginia escape history.

No, you learn from history.

You don't escape history.

And then it teaches you what to do right in the future.

So my view, that's how you go.

I'm with you.

So I saw

today you in the city of Chicago sent a letter to Jeff Bezos over at Amazon.

Nothing salacious about your email

or pictures.

And you were trying to lure Amazon to Chicago because they pulled out of New York.

What do you think about that?

What do you think about New York losing that and where Amazon should go?

Obviously, you want them in your city.

Well, I mean, here's what, first of all, for five consecutive years, Chicago is the number one city in America for corporate relocations.

Every year, five straight away.

Why are we bribing corporations?

If that was the issue in New York, do we really have to do that?

Well, it's not the issue.

Well, here's a that's a fair question.

And my own view, take a look at New York, you look at it.

What they should have said, look, fix the subway near where we are going to go and everybody will gain.

They would have gone a ticker tape parade.

And that same dollars, but go to actually, because of the condition of the subway system in New York, they would have been seen as actually coming in as a good neighbor.

And my view is there is a lot of economic growth that you can create, that there is multiple winners, and it is a win-win situation rather than, as you say, whether it is enticing or financial.

I think Chicago has a lot to offer, and the number one thing it has to offer, the best educated workforce in the United States of America.

Spoken like the still mayor of Chicago, you've earned your vacation.

Roam Emmanuel, everybody.

Okay, let's meet our panel.

Hey, look who's here.

Okay,

here's our panel.

He is a Democratic strategist and CNN contributor.

Paul Bagala is over here.

Wow, this is a panel of old friends.

He's a columnist at the Atlantic and author of Trumpocracy, the corruption of the American Republic.

Perfect for our discussion today.

David from...

And she is the Senior Vice President and Professor of Public and Urban Policy at the New School, my old job, and MSNBC legal analyst.

Maya Wiley, great to have you.

Okay, so

let's, oh, no overtime tonight, I got to get to Vegas.

Okay.

So, national emergency.

This happened.

We thought it might happen.

It did.

Usually I thought a national emergency was something we declared when Martians were landing,

not Mexicans.

And,

you know, in my lifetime, I've seen Congress give up the power of declaring war.

We don't do that.

That happened a long time before Trump.

And today it seemed like they lost the power of their other big power

is how you spend money.

If you're not due to war and you're not due money, what are they there for?

Well, they haven't lost anything yet.

Yeah, that's true.

It's really the beginning of a fight about what our Constitution says and whether Donald Trump can publicly say that I did this because I wanted the wall even though there's no emergency and then claim an emergency in order to try to build a wall that we don't need because we already have 700 miles of fencing and because as you pointed out drugs actually come through ports.

So

this is going to get litigated obviously.

There's a political process here in the form of a joint resolution, but the question of whether 60 Republicans will support that is a whole nother issue.

But this litigation is going to go on for a while, and there's a very real possibility that we might see an injunction from a court, like we did on the Muslim band,

before we have.

But then it'll go to the Supreme Court.

And that's when Schlitz Kavanaugh will go back.

Totally behind you, bro.

I know for you this is a hair on fire moment, but actually, the president lit his own hair on fire, and there's a lot of hairspray there.

He will so regret this.

He will so regret this, because here are some things that are about to happen.

The law gives the president the power not to create new money, but to reshuffle old money.

That money is going to come from people.

He's going to have to move it from one already approved military project that hasn't been contracted yet to another.

Senator Tom Tillis from North Carolina, Republican, came out against the president's action.

Why?

Because Carolina has $315 million of military projects in the pipeline.

The state of Missouri has more than $320 million of military projects in the pipeline.

Those projects were fought for by senators, and they're now to be taken away.

The president's going to face a resolution of disapproval from Congress, certainly from the House, probably from the Senate, too.

I think the number of Republican senators who are unhappy is enough.

It may pass.

He can veto it, but it still stings because it's a resolution of disapproval.

Congress has voted to disapprove.

And the court challenges are going to be painful.

So I think that's the problem.

He saw

so many times he can't get away with this, and he always gets away with it.

You know what?

He's not getting away with it.

The boat is taking on water very, very steadily.

Very slowly.

I think they will disapprove in the Congress and then the president will veto.

Then there'll be a vote whether to override.

He has not vetoed anything yet.

Right.

That's how compliant the Republican Congress is.

But it just seems to me that he will regret this.

Either the Congress will check him, unlikely, or the courts will.

And they have from time to time, the Muslim ban.

The three branches, the court has checked the presidency.

The Congress has yet to do so.

And where's the biggest bulk of that money, David talks about, is from the military construction budget.

The Senate Armed Services Subcommittee, a subcommittee of that committee, had a hearing this week about military housing.

They had families of our heroic troops who are living in rat-infested, mice-infected, infested, moldy

housing.

That's where he's going to take the money away from that for his stupid wall?

I mean, we got our beloved troops are living in, like, it's worse than the servants' quarters at Mar-a-Lago.

I mean, it's just, and those are our heroes, considering our defense budget approaches a trillion dollars.

Right, but we don't take care of our families.

But did you see the interview with the woman who's a plaintiff in the public citizen lawsuit that just got filed today?

So she lives in Texas.

She is one of the landowners who's going to lose their property to eminent domain

if this goes to the right.

Right, so I mean, imagine this is the president who gave a pardon to militiamen, right, who did this federal action in Oregon to protect their property, and yet he's going to go along the border and actually take property.

Okay, but this is all that been.

Trump is trapped inside a tighter and tighter decision spiral.

And this is happening to him more and more, where he solves a problem by creating the next problem, and then he solves the next problem by creating another problem.

That's what con men do.

They sell you the used car.

Knowing that it's going to break down when you're 20 miles down the road.

But that's the problem.

The con men tomorrow is not seeing

Except that I think the story for 2019 is going to be one of increasing hopefulness about what is ahead and the increasing ability to check.

And I am not an optimist by nature, but you just feel that the spirit is surging in the country and the Congress, it's not going to be their constitutional instincts, it's going to be their peevishness, their commitment to pork barrel projects.

The president is fooling with pork barrel projects.

That is a dangerous thing to do.

I'm less optimistic.

Yeah, me too.

He has embarked on a strategy which is exactly the opposite of what I would advise.

He is deepening, not broadening, his support.

Yes.

He got 46% in the election.

He hasn't seen 46 since.

So if I'm his political advisor, like, sir, we got to get to 50.

He's drilling down deeper and deeper.

It makes no sense unless what you're fighting for is a fanatical base that will stand with him.

Exactly.

Unless you're thinking of changing the means of government that I fundamentally have.

I mean, what bothers me about this, aside from all this minutiae, is that every president has a thing that they want to get through.

Bush wanted to privatize Social Security, and Clinton wanted to revamp the health care system, and Obama wanted a grand bargain, and they didn't get it.

But they didn't declare a national emergency.

This is a movement toward a different kind of government.

And as long as Mitch McConnell, and who, by the way, is more of an enemy of the Constitution than Mitch McConnell.

I don't think anybody.

As long as they are supporting this, they are supporting something that is fundamentally undemocratic.

They're complicit.

They're way complicit.

They're complicit on something they don't even want because they don't want to give up the power.

And by the way, not only are we fighting the wrong war at the border, this week we also found out we are deliberately taking money from the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Agency.

I didn't even know this existed.

What is it, a task force?

Two tasks force.

Jay Johnson created it.

This is to protect our elections from the Russians, basically, but from anyone who would want to ratfuck them.

And And

sorry.

Oh,

it could get worse later in the show.

I'm sorry.

I'll just hold on to my mouse.

But they are down.

He also hasn't spent any of the $120 million that's

already been appropriated to protect our elections.

This is treasonable activity.

This is a country under attack continually and someone who is in charge of defending it, not defending it.

Well, and more importantly, this establishes him, we already knew this, so I'm not breaking any news here, but as distractor-in-chief because it's distracting the Department of Homeland Security from

cybersecurity of our elections to a border law we don't need.

The wall is better than a sex scandal.

It really is as far as distract.

Because people are bored with his sex life.

They know he's a scumbag, so they don't.

19 women started making it old.

Right.

He does have an obligation to protect our country.

And I'm glad that you called it an invasion bill.

In the media, too often they call it meddling.

Like it was just kind of a gamesmanship bill.

Yeah, like your mother-in-law.

John McCain, a war hero.

Right.

John McCain called it an invasion, an attack against America.

This president is not defending us.

Why?

He benefited from that attack.

Yes.

They ought to just eliminate the middleman, pay him in rubles, and just make it honest.

Manafort, he was his campaign manager this week.

They said, you know, you've been lying after you made the plea deal.

Well, not just lying.

Not just lying.

Now lying bad.

Going and telling the president and having communications with him while you are supposedly cooperating after a plea deal with federal investigators, that's more, that's where you start to see the circumstantial evidence of the.

Okay, so the campaign manager, the personal lawyer for him, and the national security advisor all convicted of lying about relations with the Russians.

What are the odds that he didn't know when the key people around him were all doing this?

It's preposterous.

But emphasize the word convicted.

When we talk about the walls closing in, that

the American legal system has worked

about as well as anybody could have hoped, and it continues to work.

Bob Mueller stays on the job.

Here you are every week worrying about what is about to happen to Mueller, but it hasn't happened yet.

Well, for all of us, I mean, fate is not dying that day.

Mueller didn't die that day.

And at this point, with the House of Representatives in Democratic hands, he's missed his window.

That tightening spiral is continuing to tighten.

But Regina hasn't pardoned him.

We don't know.

We got a new Attorney General today, right?

Okay, the last guy was a Temp.

I mean, talk about things that are not normal.

That Whitaker guy?

Oh, right.

I got him from manpower.

Like, he was the week before he was installing drain pipes or something.

Whitaker, who was a highly abnormal approach to the attorney general, he was shut down.

He's not there.

He's got some counselor to the attorney general job.

Bob Barr is a normal.

Sorry, thank you very much.

Bill Barr is a normal figure who has

a long career ahead of him after being Attorney General.

You know, so many of them.

Okay, come on, Dave.

So many of these people.

They're normal, normal, normal.

And then one day it's like, what happened to that person?

I mean, Lindsey Graham was normal for a while.

A lot of people were normal, and and then they get sucked into the Fox News vortex or something they get sucked into and they become very not normal.

So I'm not sure.

The story of the Trump years institutionally is the massive failure of the Republican Party, complicity by your, it is true.

They are the most, that's the most shameful story.

The most inspiring story is the American legal system.

The judges, the prosecutors, and how they have protected one another.

And remember that they have futures beyond Donald Trump.

The legal system has worked.

The political system has failed.

All right.

So Valentine's Day was yesterday.

Did you have a good time?

We thought we would

save this for Valentine's Day.

It's been floating around the internet for a couple of months, but it was an amazing story.

A man bought a used car, and he found something that somebody left in the car, which was a list of 22 relationship rules that the previous car owner's girlfriend had laid out for this guy.

And the guy posted it on the internet.

This is real.

And it became viral.

Things like, you are not to have a single girl's girl's phone number, you are not to look at a single girl, I am allowed to do a phone check whenever I please, you are not

to get mad at me about a single thing I ever do,

you are never to take longer than 10 minutes to text me back,

you are not to ask for head, and

no, this is real.

So apparently this is catching on, and a lot of women are doing this now.

We got a hold of Melania's list.

I don't know if you've got it too,

but these are her rules.

You are not to leave your girdle on the bathroom floor.

You are not to ask for hand.

You are not allowed to eat Wendy's in bed.

Tell Wendy I can hear her.

You are not to ever again mention the bride catalog's return policy.

His name is Baron, and he's our son.

Stop asking, who's the kid?

You must at least consider drinking or whatever else will put you to sleep.

When I say, I love you, do not reply with, you're welcome.

If I say jump, you, ha, I'd like to see that.

All right.

John Legend is here.

He is one of the most enduring stars in this industry, an activist and a musician whose newest song and video Preach is out today.

Take a look.

All right, John Legend, everybody.

Pal, how are you?

Great to see you.

All right.

Hello.

Not only a great talent,

but a great status, and you use your powers for good and not evil.

I try, I try.

And it's a terrific new video and song.

What if people don't hear it?

Some of our audience is, you know, older than listening to young people.

That's the poetic research.

How would you put it in?

What was the takeaway that you had?

Well, the song, we talk about, you know, we've had another gun massacre today in America and Illinois, and every time it happens, we get the hopes and prayers and thoughts and prayers from all our officials, and they don't do anything about it.

And the song is basically saying, we've had enough of the thoughts and prayers and the talking about it.

Let's actually do something.

TNP.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

TNP.

Yep, moving.

So,

before I forget this, I haven't seen you.

You are so good as Jesus.

Oh, thank you.

And Jesus Christ.

Did you see Jesus Christ Superstar?

Thank you.

Yes, thank you.

You were born to play that part because people already think of you as a great guy.

Well, like, you know, it's like Jesus Church, John Legend.

I get that.

I'm a kid of, I'm a son and grandson of preachers, and so I've been learning about Jesus my whole life.

Yeah.

And so I guess that was preparation for that.

Okay.

Yes.

So, all right.

I know mass incarceration is a big issue with with you.

Yes.

An organization involved with

you.

Do you think Trump gets any credit for

he did get a bill passed?

Yeah, I mean, the bill was good.

A prison reform bill.

The bill was good, and it was.

He says, no one ever writes about it when I do something good.

No one notices the press that

we're mentioning it now, okay, asshole?

We're mentioning your good thing.

How about that?

It's hard to really credit him because you know he has no idea what's in the bill.

But a lot of people worked on it on both sides of the aisle and a lot of activists worked on it.

And it's aptly named first step because there's a lot more steps I think that need to go into place.

But I think it is a first step and it's better than not having done it.

Yeah.

You know, when Hillary Clinton ran her first speech in her campaign was about mass incarceration.

So I thought when they hung that super predator on her, it was kind of unfair.

Well, she said it.

She said it, so she has to be accountable for what she said.

But

I I think the pressure that was put on her

and her realizing that she had to move to the left on that issue was because of the pressure.

And so I think it's good for activists on the left to pressure Democrats

who in the 90s and the 2000s were

tough on crime.

She was...

Okay, but there was a lot more crime in the 90s.

According to the Clintons on this, I mean, she was the first lady at the time.

She wasn't the president.

Sure.

And she said they were saying that word in response to requests from community leaders.

The bottom line is, I think the pressure that the left put on Hillary Clinton was useful, and it moved her to the left, and it moved the Democratic Party to the left.

She needed to be moved to the left on that issue?

On criminal justice, absolutely.

And I think a lot of Democrats have needed to move to the left.

And

we're seeing people bring up other candidates for 2020

their record on criminal justice.

And I think it's appropriate for people on the left to put pressure on our politics

and require them to step to where we want them to step.

But part of the result of that was that I remember reading the quote from Colin Kaepernick who said, I'm not going to vote because they're both racists.

Trump and Hillary Clinton.

That's a terrible idea because I hate that.

But that's what happened.

No, I think we can have both.

We can say, let's put pressure from the left on our politicians, but also say, when it comes down to a decision, I voted for Hillary Clinton.

And

I campaigned for Hillary Clinton because I knew the alternative was Trump.

And not just a negative decision because I thought Hillary was a great candidate too.

But also, it was clear that even if there was someone running on a third-party candidacy to her left, I wouldn't have voted for that person because I'm practical about the fact that I want the best candidate with the best chance of winning to get my vote.

Okay.

So I noticed that you're

pretty much the only big star in the R.

Kelly.

recent documentary that we all watched and it was pretty damning.

And I think a lot of of people have asked in the last few years, like, when is the Me Too movement going to come to the music industry?

And I think what a lot of people are thinking is, God, that's so ubiquitous in the music industry, where would you even start?

Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, I think clearly we're having this conversation about R.

Kelly.

There's another article this week in the New York Times about another musician.

And so I think there's a conversation being had.

I just think music is probably a bit more decentralized.

And so I think.

And sexy.

It's it's a sexy thing there's

all around and I also think particularly in the R.

Kelly case the reason why it was ignored for so long was because the victims were pretty powerless and they didn't have people speaking up for them and so that's really why I spoke up I have friends who are activists that were speaking up for those victims and a lot of people were ignoring them and the guy who wrote about it in Chicago was saying

I learned, as a white guy writing, he was like, I learned that black women are the least valued women in society because when I was writing about this, no one cared, no one paid attention.

so these victims didn't have the power they didn't have the the standing to get their get attention paid to to the

what happened to them and so it was good that this documentary

and proper attention to the

Maya and

and

can we still play

R.

Kelly at a party would that be wrong if we I actually

I don't play it I don't either me neither

absolutely not out of my Out of my iPod.

Is the check in your iPod on the list?

Yeah.

No.

iPod, I know, even that's kind of dating myself.

But I still like it.

So

what about the governor of Virginia?

I asked Rahm Emmanuel, and we talked about it last week on the show.

Malcolm Nance was here, and he said, you know, if you're going to talk about black outrage, maybe you should ask some black folks.

And I think those, the stat I cited with Rahm, you know, 58% of African Americans in Virginia believe he should not step down.

Your feelings, your feelings, your feelings, your feelings.

I think black people aren't shocked when we find out that folks

might have done something like this 30 years ago.

We're probably the least shocked.

Right.

I was going to say it a little bit more pointedly because the conversation, I was just visiting my friend who lives in Virginia.

And our conversation was like, why do white people think black people trust them?

I mean, it's our litmus test is we don't trust you, so we're constantly waiting to see if you're going to do what you said you were going to do.

In this case, in this case, I think that's part of why you see 58% of black Virginians saying, we didn't trust you in the first place, to John's point.

We want you to make good on what you said you were going to do, which was eliminate voter ID, which discriminates us against in terms of our ability to vote, disproportionately, that you are going to do criminal justice reform in the state of Virginia.

In other words, we want you to make good on what you said you were going to do and we're going to hold your feet to the fire.

I also think it is absolutely right for black people to be outraged.

It isn't because he wore blackface in that photo or the Klan costume, we didn't even know which one.

It's that it is imperative that we have a discussion that says how we evolve.

There's so much racism in this country that it, that was an opportunity to have a conversation about here is how I learned.

But because people lose their careers, Megan Kelly lost her career.

Well, she had bad ratings.

That's true, too.

She had bad ratings.

Okay, and then she said Santa was a white man.

Okay.

Well, he does live at the North Pole.

And Liam Neeson said something last week, and he was trying to...

Santa lost his job.

Well, but there's a big backlash.

We'll see if he'll see.

Okay, but what I'm saying is, I remember when Clinton was president, he said we have to have a dialogue on race.

I remember Obama had the beer summit, and it was like, we need to talk.

I don't know if we're creating an atmosphere where people now feel safe to talk.

And I think that puts us in the wrong direction.

I think dialogue and talking was where the direction should go.

And now I think people are like, oh, you know what?

I should just shut up because I'm just going to get in trouble if I say anything.

I'm just excited because the Virginia GOP said that racists don't belong in office and so I have a good feeling that a lot of people are going to resign and

I think President Trump will resign.

There's so many people that are going to resign because the GOP has decided that racists don't belong in office.

I'm just excited for the turnover that's going to happen.

But you also, when you were talking to the Trump administration about your initiative on criminal justice reform, it must have been

It must have helped you that so many of the people you were talking to thought, well, I might be a felon one of these days.

Well, Jared Kushner, his dad was literally in prison and he took up the cause of criminal justice reform based on that experience.

And I think he had a feeling.

Falsely.

And I think he has a feeling that he might be indicted himself sometime soon.

Who knows?

If I can go back to Virginia, I live in Virginia.

Governor Northam's a friend of mine.

And I think one of the reasons 58%, he got the overwhelming African-American vote in a campaign.

And now

58% of African Americans in his Commonwealth don't want him to resign.

I think you all are right.

But I also think people would prefer redemption to resignation.

And if you know the governor, as I do, there is nothing in the 35 years since those offensive racist pictures, nothing to suggest he's still that person, that he has grown to change.

He passed, as Ron pointed out, he passed Medicaid, which disproportionately helps African Americans.

He was the first white politician in Virginia that I know of who called for those Confederate monuments to come down.

And now he has pledged to redeem himself even more.

I think it's a far better drawing.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Look, look, because there are two different different things happening here.

Yes, redemption.

And to the point about the discussion, the discussion has to be a redemptive discussion.

His problem, and I'm not saying this because I think he should resign, because I agree if 58% of black voters want to stay, I'm not going to tell him he shouldn't.

But

moonwalking and that description of the like the tar,

that was the,

that was a demonstration that he has not learned.

That he has not learned.

As a watcher of politics, I was like, he's really not a good politician.

Just a lady.

Just a little bit.

I feel like the governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia should just be a little bit better at politics.

So the conversation I want is, you don't, and this goes back to the Liam Neeson point, right?

He was at, it was awful that he thought and felt what he did.

That was reprehensible.

And we can't have a discussion like that by Twitter or by an offhanded comment because it is so painful.

Everything becomes

Twitter.

We have to learn to ignore Twitter.

Well,

I think that's right.

And I think the point is, how do you create a conversation

that acknowledges these are not, these are no longer, these are not hypothetical conversations because we had Tree of Life Synagogue.

We had Emmanuel AME Church.

I mean, people are actually dying because of the stereotypical tropes.

And so it's

irresponsible not to talk about it better.

That came up in the Jewish community this week again because of

there is a

new congresswoman, Ilan Omar.

She is Muslim, one of the first two I think we have in Congress.

And she's apologized.

She's under a lot of fire because she was talking about the Jewish lobby, AIPAC, and she said it's all about the Benjamins.

Now, I probably don't agree with her a lot about what she feels about Israel and Palestine, but I don't know why this has to be seen as anti-Semitic.

Now, she may be anti-Semitic, but if I criticize Saudi Arabia, that doesn't mean I'm Islamophobe.

And yes?

No, it depends how.

I mean, there are things you could say about Saudi Arabia that would make people raise their eyebrows a little bit.

If you say it's a repressive

oligarchic regime that plunders its people, then you're saying a factual thing.

There are jokes or remarks you could make.

There are things you could say that would be demeaning or slighting.

I have to say, though, I think one of the things that maybe

Congresswoman Omar got lucky with is that by starting this controversy, she was able to, that we are not paying attention to the fact that she was defending the brutal, authoritarian, corrupt, kleptocratic regime of Venezuela and opposing American action to try to bring

a resolution to this terrible humanitarian crisis and that what she was articulating there and I think one of the reasons that her party took such a firm line against her was something that is just outside the realm of American politics which you would think would encourage the rise of a democratic Venezuela.

And by the way, your description of Venezuela could apply to Hamas in Gaza.

Right.

It applies to a lot of places.

I mean one of the things I think we are as we enter this new century, we carry around with us, especially those of us who are a little bit older, a mental map formed in a different time.

And we use terms of left and right that don't apply.

That there are gangster governments.

And sometimes, as in Venezuela, they use language that resonates with left-wing people, and sometimes as in Russia, they use language that resonates with more conservative people.

They're the same.

And the world order is increasingly one of gangster versus non-gangster governments, governments organized around stealing and governments organized around the rule of law.

And those governments that are organized on the rule of law have a lot more in common with any, despite whatever language or slogans they use.

And so I just implore people, there are people on the show who are going back into the ancient past and say, I have to feel, because I'm a progressive person in Maduro and Hugo Chavez before him, say things that sound like they resonate with me.

I have to overlook the massive amount of fraud and stealing and violence and now death squads that are appearing in Venezuela.

Don't be conned.

But I think as progressives, we should also speak up for human rights for Palestinians.

And I think for too long, I think it's been out of bounds for progressives to speak up for the rights of Palestinians.

And

I

don't know, I don't know about Venezuela, so I won't talk about it,

but I think

it is a progressive point of view to speak up for the human rights of Palestine.

Yes, but it's not like an issue is in your mind, and the Venezuelan issue is not.

I mean, that says something about what has happened to progressively.

Well,

it's the things that get talked about in American media more.

Like, I just haven't read that much about Venezuela, but you know, Israel and Palestine have been talked about for decades in this country, so we are more educated on it.

I wish we had more time for this one, but we don't.

It's time for new rules, everybody.

New rules.

Okay.

Neural, just because Urban Outfitters suggest this vibrator as a Valentine's Day gift doesn't mean you should buy it as a Valentine's Day gift.

What could be more romantic than, here you go, hon, knock yourself out.

I'll be in the basement playing Fortnite.

Neural, now that 21 savage is out of immigration jail and ready to, as his lawyers put it, continue making music that brings people together, they must tell us which of his songs are best at bringing people together.

Is Is it the one that goes, I got model bitches want to lick me like some candy, and then drugs come in handy?

Hit her with no condom, had to make her eat a plan B.

Or is it the one that goes, Fuck her in my roly, fuck her in my roly, I'm a fucker in my roly, fuck her in a rover, fuck her in a rover, I'm a fucker in a rover, bend the bitch over, bend the bitch over, I'm a bend the bitch over, fuck her on a sofa, fuck her on a sofa, I'm gonna fuck her on a sofa.

Your move, me too.

New rule, whoever in the White House invented the term executive time to describe watching TV and tweeting on the toilet

deserves a raise.

And then they should use it in a TV ad.

You've worked hard for 45 minutes talking to people you don't like about things you don't understand.

Now it's executive time.

Just you, the TV, and a big bowl of Breyers vanilla fudge swirl.

Executive time, time, because wearing pants is for losers.

New rules, fashion critics must give Mr.

Kleen his props as a trendsetter.

Hey, he was rocking the shaved head long before Jeff Bezos and Michael Jordan and The Rock.

Mr.

Kleen was way ahead of his time.

The earring,

the selfie smirk,

the on-again, off-again relationship with the brawny paper towel guy.

New world idiots have to stop posting this fake quote from Kurt Cobain where he predicts the election of a true outsider who does what's right for the people, Donald Trump.

He never said it.

He did, however, predict Trump with the album cover, a toddler with a tiny dick chasing money.

And finally, new rule, no more swiping left on perfectly good presidential candidates.

Nearly 45 million Americans now identify themselves as Democrats, and all of them are running for president.

This time, let's give them a chance.

Let's not eat our own, the way we nitpicked Hillary to death over her emails and other bullshit.

Kamala Harris has already had to play defense because it's come out that when she was a prosecutor, she prosecuted people.

Not very progressive.

She should have found a way to apply more forgiveness.

And the fact that she didn't, it's unforgivable.

Elizabeth Warren claimed to be Native American.

So what?

Trump claimed to be human.

If you think this stupid, blown-out of proportion Indian controversy makes her inauthentic, you're the phony.

She is the champion of consumer rights in the age of income inequality.

When it comes to Elizabeth Warren, I have no reservations.

Thank you.

Bernie Sanders, we used to like him, but he didn't personally chaperone everyone on his campaign, so he's a sex monster once removed.

A candidate has to have tough standards for their staff, but not too tough.

That's Amy Klobuchar.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, last week we learned she's verbally abusive.

Then again, this came from the Huffington Post, so I got to ask: do you mean actually abusive or what millennials think of as abusive?

Because

I think it's like the pain chart in the hospital.

And I I think my generation's two is your generation's 10.

So.

So welcome to the real world, Snowflake.

Now go get Amy her coffee and shut the fuck up.

Vetero Rourke took oil money.

Yeah, he's in Texas.

All the money in Texas is oil money.

The only other job there is operating the mechanical bull.

It's like complaining Mitt Romney takes money from Mormons.

I mean, geez, every Democrat is going to have some dark spot.

And Virginia, it's on their face.

Do you know what song Trump plays at his rallies?

It's the stones, you can't always get what you want.

Which seems like an odd choice, but it tells you why Republicans are so successful.

Because they're not babies who think they can have everything.

Evangelicals don't really like Donald Trump.

They know he can't even pass a church without bursting into flames.

But he got them two justices on the Supreme Court.

Yeah, you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you get what you need.

That's their jam.

Ours is thank you next.

We go from I love you to die in about six hours.

It's like dating Taylor Swift.

You know, I've been watching the reboot of Temptation Island, not to brag.

And it's startling how similar the mentality is to what's going on in the Democratic Party.

If you're not familiar, Temptation Island is the show where hot people dating hot people are in search for hotter people.

Contestants only have two emotions, horny and crying.

And the whole point of the show is you can always do better.

Every contestant begins their journey

by saying the same thing.

I love what I have with Trevin, but I wonder if there's someone more perfect for me.

There isn't.

That new asshole in the tank top is the same as your asshole in the tank top.

This is a real problem in our society, looking for an excuse to dump someone, someone good, because there must be one more perfect.

And sometimes what you wind up with is no one to host the Oscars at all.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Look at the Oscars.

They're being ruined by these same kind of ridiculous purity tests.

Bohemian Rhapsody is flawed, flawed because it's gay, but not gay enough.

Really, that's what they're saying.

It's insensitive to the extremely gay.

What?

For years,

for years, the beef about gay characters in movies was they were reduced to their sexuality.

Now the sexuality is placed in the background, and it's where's the dick sucking?

Roma.

Roma delivers such an authentic portrait of a Mexican housekeeper, Arnold Schwarzenegger tried to impregnate it.

But it's a movie about the poor, and the director isn't poor.

Out!

Green Book is a movie made by liberals, for liberals, bursting at the seams with liberal values, not good enough, because the director is one of the Farrelly brothers.

And as an inside joke for his crew, he used to pull his weenie out on movies like Dumb and Dumber.

Fuck, the poster for Something About Mary showed Cameron Diaz's hair styled with Ben Stiller's cum.

I say he should get an award just for growing up.

And then there's A Star Is Born, which has big problems with consent.

Yes, consent.

Because get this.

Bradley Cooper pulls Lady Gaga on stage to sing without her knowledge, thereby forcing her to endure the humiliation of global stardom.

I'm not kidding.

The review in Bach says, A Star is Born presents a codependent relationship built on a huge power imbalance and lack of female agency.

That's what you got out of a star isborn?

Because all I learned was don't wear khis on stage when you really have to pee.

All right, that's our show.

I gotta go.

I'll be at the Plaza Theater in El Costa, March 2nd, at the Pavilion Pavilion in Toyota Music Factory in Dallas, March 16th.

I want to thank Paul Bagala, David From, Maya Wiley, John Legend, and Ram Emmanuel.

Take it over, guys.

Thank you.

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