Episode #391 (Originally aired 06/10/16)

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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night Series, Real Time with Bill Ma.

Start the clock.

Good afternoon.

Afternoon.

Time will be

real time.

gentlemen.

Thank you.

Okay, let's start the show.

Come on, there's a lot of.

Oh, stop it.

Stop.

Thank you very much.

I know.

So exciting.

Okay, all right, all right, all right.

I know, I know, I know, I know.

It's exciting because we made history this week.

Donald Trump used a teleprompter.

History was

no, Hillary Clinton shattered the glass ceiling.

Of course, she did it with her laugh, but still, it was an exciting time.

Come on, you got to give it up for that.

We've had a black president now, we're going to have a woman president.

You know what that

means.

Caitlin Jenner, you're next.

Now, I know the Bernie fans are disappointed.

Bernie did not go quietly.

Well, he lost big here in California.

Come on, you know, votes are votes.

But he vowed to go on.

He asked for a meeting with President Obama.

He got it yesterday.

He was in the Oval Office.

He said to Obama, Did you feel the burn?

And

Obama said, No, I vaped now.

No.

No, obviously Obama was trying to talk Bernie into getting out of the race.

There's a switch.

A black man trying to evict a Jew.

But,

you know.

So anyway, Obama has Bernie over to the White House.

Five minutes after Bernie leaves, Obama endorses Hillary.

Like, don't let the White House gate hit you in the ass, Bernie boy.

Take all the time you need, brother.

You know, all the big Democrats,

Obama, Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, they all endorsed Hillary as soon as she was the only one left.

What a ringing endorsement.

But

Obama made his endorsement on Facebook, which was kind of interesting.

And And they wanted to make sure they reached one of their very key voting demographics, parents who want to know what their kids are up to.

Now on the Republican side, oh my God, these motherfuckers cannot.

No, I'm talking about the party elders.

They cannot wait for this election to be over because Donald Trump, they have to live with this asshole.

They have to constantly disavow his racist comments.

We found out today he doesn't pay his bills.

Mitch McConnell, I swear to God,

McConnell said, it's very important that Trump picks a great vice presidential candidate because, quote, it's pretty obvious he doesn't know a lot about the issues.

And

McConnell supports him.

This is as close as you can get to literally saying, I'm with stupid.

So,

yeah, they're trying, you know, they're trying to bring Trump around.

They've got two strategies in this party.

One, dump him, which is hard to do.

The other thing is tame him.

Put King Kong in chains.

Bring him over here.

So

on Wednesday, Trump met with 70 Republican wealthy donors.

They had lunch at the four seasons.

The Maitre D said, do you have reservations?

They all said, yes, big ones.

I mean, they are just so tired.

of having to apologize for this guy.

All that stuff about the Mexican-American judge who's ruling on his Trump University case, Paul Ryan said what Trump said is, quote, a textbook definition of a racist comment.

And that is something Republicans oppose.

Not racism, textbooks.

I tend to Republicans.

Of course, Donald Trump, not a racist.

Did you see how his week started?

He literally pointed to a black man at one of

at one of his rallies and said, look at my African American.

He's the greatest.

Look at my African American.

And then it got worse.

He said, I'll start the bidding at 10,000.

I mean, it got worse.

And

poor Ben Carson was on the side of the

stage.

He said, I thought I was your African American.

Oh, it's going to get worse.

Donald Trump, do you know this, is going to make a big speech on Monday where he's going to spill the beans.

He loves that.

I'm going to spill the beans on the Clintons.

Like that can of beans hasn't been spilled a billion times before.

Spoiler alert, Bill's horny and Hillary's ambitious.

Oh, you know.

I think Bill is still horny because

Hillary had a private meeting.

Do you know this?

This is true today with Elizabeth Warren.

We think to talk about being a potential vice presidential candidate.

And after the meeting, Bill said to Hillary, that's not what I meant when I said we should bring in another woman.

No.

No, Hillary said Elizabeth Warren would be great.

She would bolster the idea that women are ready to take over the world and are totally capable of

doing so.

And also, I'd have someone to go to the bathroom with.

You know, I.

Kids.

Oh, stop.

Look, women do go to the bathroom in pairs, but there's a reason why that started.

Bill Cosby.

That's why that whole thing started.

But you know what?

Who else wants Elizabeth Warren to to be the vice president?

Donald Trump.

He tweeted that.

He said, I hope she's the vice president.

Right.

He calls her Pocahontas.

You see this?

Pocahontas, goofy Pocahontas.

He's just jealous Indians know how to run casinos.

All right, we've got a great show.

Andrew Ross Fawkin, Anna Marie Cox, and Katie Cocker are here.

And a little later, we'll be speaking with rocker and ranger Tom Morello.

But first up, she is the four-term retiring senator from California whose new memoir is The Art of Tough, Fearlessly Facing Politics and Life, Senator Barbara Boxer.

Hey,

how you doing?

Great to see you again.

It's been a while.

And

thank you.

Thank you.

Yes.

Well,

I think that's because they're a liberal crowd, and in the Senate, you were kind of Bernie and Elizabeth Warren before Bernie and Elizabeth Warren.

Interesting way to put it.

Yeah.

And now you're retiring.

That's got to be bittersweet for you.

Well, actually, it's more sweet because

you've done this for 40 years in elected life.

And that's a long time.

When did it all go to shit?

No, I mean.

I mean,

let me be specific.

Not for you.

I mean, when did it change from a time when it was more collegial, when people would work together, to a time when you couldn't even entertain a notion or a bill from the other side?

Okay, I think I know.

And his name was Newt Gingrich.

Really?

That's when it happened.

It was the politics of personal destruction, didn't matter.

Tip was so different.

You know, Tip O'Neill.

Sure.

He just said, I got to get to 218 in the House.

It didn't matter if it was Democrats, Republicans, Independents.

And it all changed.

It all changed.

The Republicans say it was Bork.

It was that Bork nomination.

They say the Democrats started it with that.

I don't.

Yeah, and right after that came Clarence Thomas, and you know what happened.

Yes.

There.

I write a lot about him.

He what?

He got on the court.

He got on the court.

And look, now they won't even entertain Merrick Garland.

They won't even bring it to a vote.

That's a big difference from when you started, right?

That's never happened before.

Yeah, it's all changed in mostly bad ways.

Once in a while, we can overcome it and get something done.

Like Mitch McConnell and I got together and did a highway bill, and that was shocking because I didn't talk to him for 20 years.

I mean,

because.

Over something specific?

Yeah, Bob Packwood case.

Oh, I remember him.

Yeah,

he was one of the first leches.

He was.

And the fact is, 20 women had complained, and Mitch didn't want to 20, at least.

And I write about it in the book.

That's Cosby numbers.

It was so bad.

It was bad.

I remember the diary.

The diary.

This guy wrote everything.

He kept saying.

Funny shit.

He kept saying he had beautiful hair and

beautiful arms.

I mean,

it's bad enough to be a lech, but it's worse to think they actually want you.

I know, that's exactly right.

I mean, he wrote things.

He wrote, one of the things he wrote in his diary was:

he names this person,

was in the Xerox room, making believe she was making a copy of something.

And I walked in, and she wasn't happy.

Why did she go in the Xerox room?

Sure.

He says, if she didn't expect me to walk in there.

And then he used the pretty ugly word after that.

Right.

Who doesn't want to get with Bob?

But in any event,

Xerox.

Connell told me that if I kept pressing this case, calling for public hearings, he threatened to go after my colleagues.

It was pretty bad, and it really

touched me in a way that wasn't good.

And I just said, you know, hello, goodbye, that was it.

But last year we got together, we wrote a highway bill.

That was a good thing.

Good.

Well, I'm glad that's a positive story.

That was.

Okay, well, look,

I do think you were a great liberal voice for all those years and very consistent.

You voted in ways that most of your colleagues, even the liberals, didn't, like the Iraq War.

You didn't vote the way Hillary did.

Glass-Steagall, gay marriage.

I think you were only one of eight to defend gay marriage.

The one time I was hoping you would come out

for something I wanted was Prop 19 in 2010.

It was on the ballot to legalize marijuana.

It lost narrowly.

No Democrat in this state defended it.

But here it is, six years later.

What do you think?

Time's come for the wacky weed, Senator.

Come on.

I'm actually going to surprise you.

I'm leaning in favor.

Leaning.

The one thing.

I can push you right over after the show.

No violets.

No, no.

No.

There's just one issue that's a serious one I'm looking at, which is worrisome worrisome from Colorado and Washington State, where they've seen fatalities,

driver fatalities go up.

But there is something in the initiative that does address it.

So I'm hoping I'll be able to support this stuff.

Most of the driver fatalities are from alcohol, which has always been legal.

Well, not always.

Well,

I mean, come on.

It's just not fair.

You know what?

It's not fair.

There are more driver fatalities.

I'm telling you.

This isn't, it's just, than there were before.

But we can address it.

We need to figure out how, you know, the breathalyzer idea, the blood test idea, and then once we do that.

But anyhow, I am leaning.

Okay.

I'm glad to hear it.

And just to put your mind at ease, I drive better when I'm stone.

Don't drive stone.

So what do you think about Elizabeth Warren?

I mean, she came out very strong yesterday.

She She was all over TV.

I felt she kind of overshadowed Hillary Clinton.

I kind of thought, well, this is not going to happen because Hillary sees this and goes,

I don't want to be on a ticket with somebody who everybody's saying should be at the top.

Oh, no.

No, come on, girlfriend.

No,

she was supportive of Hillary.

She was, but she looked better than Hillary.

That's my point.

Come on.

She looked better.

She's just a better natural politician.

Look, here's the deal.

Hillary is Hillary.

She's not

someone.

She's not her.

People say to me, she's not authentic.

She is

an authentically hard-working woman who rolls up her sleeves and gets the job done.

She's the smartest girl in the room.

Right.

She will do it.

That's her authenticity.

But Elizabeth Warren certainly started this thing of attacking Trump in a kind of a vicious way.

To all those people who say, you know, this campaign can't become just hurling insults at one another.

Well, yes, it can.

It already has, and actually it must, because he's going to do it.

And if you don't do it, then America is going to judge you as not able to fight back.

You have to speak up.

Why did Hillary win the state by 13 points after she was neck and neck?

Because she made that speech where she called him names.

Well, which he deserves.

He deserves it.

Look, for someone to say, I want to make America great,

you have to know what made America great in the first place, which is all of us working together,

not tearing each other apart.

It makes me nuts.

Well, you sure did your part.

Thank you for your service.

Thank you for being on.

Great luck with the volume.

Don't be a stranger.

Okay.

Barbara Boxer.

All right, let's meet our path.

Hey,

how you doing?

All right.

He is the New York Times columnist who also co-hosts CNBC's squawk box.

Andrew Ross Sorkins back with us.

She is the columnist for the New York Times magazine and the senior political correspondent for MTV News.

Anna Marie Cox is back with us.

And you're our first timer.

She's a Republican strategist and founder of the anti-Trump super PAC, our Principles PAC.

Katie Packer, thank you very much for taking that stand.

All right, remember to send us your questions for tonight's overtime so we can answer them after the show on YouTube.

All right, now every week I have been doing a segment called Red Flags.

I'm trying to convince.

And every week, every week the graphic is different and worse than the last.

Okay, so.

I'm just trying to convince those Trump voters out there who may be thinking of voting for Donald Trump why there there are so many red flags.

Now, this week, how about the fact that he doesn't pay his bills?

That's kind of a red flag to me, President Lindsey Lohan.

He's going to make a speech Monday where he's going to spill the beans on the Clintons.

How about this as a red flag?

If you have any crazy shit that you want to hear him say, just put it up on the internet before Monday.

Because he has said over and over again, I get my information from the internet.

I only know what I see on the internet.

Okay, if that's not enough for you, how about the fact that in the Mexican-American judge case, they asked him, okay, so first of all, I love this logic that Mexicans love me,

but apparently they hate me so much that they can't judge me.

And then they asked him, what about Muslims?

He said, yeah, same thing.

What about a woman?

Yeah.

So if this whole group of, if there's all these groups

who can't judge you because you're so hated, isn't that a red flag?

Panel?

I think it's a giant red flag.

I think they're all red flags.

I think it's astounding that people can't see these red flags.

I think Danger Will Robinson is what comes to mind.

But people just seem to want to blow right past him.

Yeah, what is that?

Well, I think maybe one problem is that a lot of us in the media tend to focus on his bigotry and racism, which are bad.

Let's not

parse words there.

But you know what?

It's his ineptitude and insanity and ignorance that I think are really dangerous.

I so agree with that.

I think he is a racist, but I think that's such

a part of a broader portfolio

of ignorance.

It's a subsidiary of Stupid Inc.

He's racist, but he feels superior to everyone.

Right.

So it's not just blacks, it's just everyone who, if you're not Donald Trump, you're not good.

Right.

I would say, Mike, your average everyday racist just sees us and them.

Like, he sees me and them.

Me and them.

I mean, I think he's racist.

He's Trumpist.

You know,

I think that explains why he's so interested in dating his daughter.

He doesn't want to pollute the line.

Wow.

Yeah, he didn't.

He's a creepy guy.

He said, to be clear, he said, yeah, she's a beautiful.

If I wasn't her father, you're right, he wants to date his daughter.

But I think that the surprising part is how people are so willing to overlook the racism.

That's the thing that I don't really understand in all this.

We had a guy, Ken Langoon, on our show this week, big billionaire,

started Home Depot, said to him, you're still backing Trump.

He had said a month ago he was going to backing Trump.

He says,

he's a disgrace.

It's terrible what he said.

And yet, I hate Hillary Clinton, and so I'm going to vote for Donald Trump.

And that's what we have over and over.

You know, Romney, just an hour ago, we were watching TV upstairs before this show.

What does he say?

He says, I hate Trump, he's a misogynist, he's this, he's that, and yet

he's not voting for Hillary.

But he's also made it very clear he's not voting for Trump.

Yeah, but that's

a conversation.

But

if you think he's that dangerous, you do something.

And you vote for Hillary.

And some Republicans have said that.

Christy Todd Whitman said that.

P.J.

Aruk said that.

A few other people have said that.

But I also think the problem with the Republican Party and racism is not so much Donald Trump, it's their voters.

It's the Trump voters.

Trump got

13 million votes, more than anybody else.

He set a record.

And by the way, sadly, 1.5 fewer Democrats voted than did in 2008.

That's a little scary.

I think the Frankenstein monster is the Trump voter more than Trump.

He will go away.

And the sad thing is we found more of the Trump voter this week.

It was in the paper yesterday.

More white white people.

They found more white people.

We're

like an Amazon tribe now.

No, I'm not kidding.

They found more white.

They miscounted or something.

Which is, they said, good news for Donald Trump because he leads Clinton by 27 points among white voters without a college degree.

Right.

But the bad news for Trump is that he ties with her, with voters with a college degree, which is a category that Romney actually won by what, like 12%?

I think closer to 20%.

20%.

So he's not, there may be more white people out there, but there's not enough white people.

I mean, and there's not enough orange people.

Well, either.

I do think that that makes an assumption that all white people are okay with overt racism and misogyny.

And I think that a lot of the white people they found actually voted for Barack Obama and are not going to be natural Trump supporters.

But white is good for Trump.

Yes.

There's no doubt about it.

That was about it.

And for the GOP, racism is a feature, not a bug, most of the time.

And to be fair, I think what's really bothering a lot of Republicans about Trump is not his racism, it's not his bigotry, it's not even his ignorance.

I mean, they've shown themselves to be okay with all of those things in presidential candidates before.

Well, just to be clear, I think.

It's that he's not controllable.

It's that they can't control him.

I don't think that the Republicans

hold the market on racism.

There are plenty of racist Democrats that are out there.

I think what's interesting.

Wait a second.

Not so much.

Come on.

There's plenty of racism-dixeling.

You'll find plenty of racist Democrats out there.

What year are we talking about?

Yeah,

the Mason-Dixon line in a time machine.

Okay.

Yes, yes.

You will totally find that.

Come on, that's central.

That's what we call a false equivalency.

I don't think it's fair to say that Republicans are the only ones that are racist.

There are fewer Democrats that are in the world.

I would never say all, I've said this before, not all Republicans are racist.

But if you are a racist in America and you're looking for a political party.

In 2016.

Yes.

It's not.

Hold on.

You've interviewed Donald Trump, right?

You've met him before?

I've been sued by him.

I have not interviewed him.

Okay, I've interviewed him many times.

I'm going to lose points for saying this.

I'm not sure deep down he is a true racist.

Now, you may think I'm crazy for saying this.

He's 70.

That's what he is.

But I think he makes these comments, and then what was so strange this week, usually he says something that makes no sense and is crazy, and then he rolls it back.

The reason why he lost points this week was for some bizarre reason he doubled down.

He always doubles down.

What are you talking about?

It doesn't sound bizarre.

I mean, he's pathologically and delusionally insecure.

You know, and so.

That's nerdy.

And so he doubled down on this stuff.

You look at the John McCain stuff, you look at even when he was talking about building walls, then, of course, the week later, he's trying to explain what he really meant.

This was different.

This was fundamentally different.

But again, it's the voter.

29%, only 29% of Republicans think that Barack Obama was born in America, which he plainly factually was.

40% think Ted Cruz was, and he wasn't.

But there's something about Ted Cruz that strikes them as more American.

But that's just because we have...

But that's just because America's dumb.

40% of America doesn't know who Joe Biden is.

Yeah, but...

But if you watch Fox News, which is where most Republicans get their news, that's information that is peddled on a moment-to-moment basis.

But it's so scary because we don't know what the electorate will do.

You know, they're so dumb and tacky that

you know, the electorate is like that gorilla in the Cincinnati Zoo.

And democracy is

the toddler.

It's true.

We don't know whether it'll cradle it or fucking kill it.

We don't.

Well, let's not make the same mistake that Trump did, which is we all know he has a hard time with knowing what size things are.

Well, I'm just saying he seems to think that the primary electorate is much larger than it is.

He seems to think that

whatever, like however many million votes he got is meaningful in a general election.

And it's not.

Well, I mean, he could win every single vote that was cast in the primary, and he still wouldn't get as many votes as Romney did.

So

I think we have some room to play here as far as optimism with the American.

He could be, you're right, Christine O'Donnell or one of those nutty, remember those nutty,

was that 2010 the witch I was the one who made her the witch

but right I mean but there was a lot of people of that year those Republican Murdoch remember him Sharon Angle like total nutcases who won their primary because when you only have to vote it

win with the 90% white crackers okay

so that could be Trump this year and he could lose by a landslide or he could or Hillary could be Martha Coakley remember Martha Coakley the one who ran in Massachusetts against Scott Brown?

And she was, Massachusetts, a big liberal state, and she lost because she was kind of a plotting centrist.

Do you think that he'll, yeah?

The danger is, I think, that people look at Trump as a lottery ticket.

And they think, I'll buy it.

I'm probably not going to win the jackpot, but I could win the jackpot.

I won't be any worse off than I am today if any of these other people win.

I saw a poll, 76% of voters think he will shake things up.

Like, that's a great reason to vote for somebody.

That's a great reason for the purge.

That's not a great reason to vote for some people.

You think Hillary loses by being a centrist?

Well, I don't know.

I think she loses by being bland.

I think she loses.

Because I actually think she has a better chance.

Now that she's talking of, I mean, if Elizabeth Warren is up for grabs now as a vice president of Canada, I actually think that would ultimately hurt her.

in her ability to.

She's not going to put it.

Well, right now, she's running around trying to actually get Republicans to come with her.

I think that Elizabeth Warren would scare those people.

In what world do you think Republicans are going to come with her?

I mean, 80% of the people.

Oh, my goodness, there's a whole group of people who are never Trumpers.

Absolutely.

Really?

Well, they sure disappeared fast because

the polls I've seen

high 80s of Republican voters got in line.

These people are going to be able to do that.

Right, but you really need to be at like 93% if you're even going to be competitive in a general election.

You have to hold your party up in the 90s.

And by the way, even if they don't go to her, they just don't go to the poll.

And she has to bet on that.

But that's a different characteristic of Republicans, loyalty beyond anything.

They stuck with Reagan when he thought the nightstand was Barbara Stanwick.

And I think what's...

I think what's going on here is that

the Republicans think they were had by Trump, right?

They think he's like a smart con man, right?

And now they're going to make him our con man, right?

But the the thing is, he's not a con man.

Like, he's actually just a very lucky sociopath who thinks he's a con man.

That's an interesting theory.

He thinks he's a con man.

He thinks, like, he's pulled all this stuff.

So what do you think they're talking about?

Mitt Romney's having his annual enclave this, right, as we speak.

This goes on every year, so it's not just called for Trump, but that's obviously the subject of discussion.

I think they have, like I said, two options.

We can either try to get out of the contract, you know, like a sports team does when a guy, you know, gets on steroids or something.

Well, he's too much of a racist.

We can't abide.

And they can change the rules before the convention.

The bat signal might be going out to Ted Cruz or Paul Ryan.

Or the other strategy is, we'll tame him.

We'll talk to him.

That, to me, is that's not going to happen.

I think it's different.

I think that that group that's hanging out this week, I think they are secretly fine with Hillary.

Yeah, I actually.

They just don't want to say it it aloud.

That's what that's really those it's a business community they're business people.

I don't know.

And Hillary is

but they do believe if you have people like Mitt Romney and all these other so-called establishment leaders that seem to try to change the rules at the convention or run a third party, then they're to blame when Trump loses.

They would rather just see Trump lose on his own and then he's to blame.

He owns it.

Mitt Romney's not going to own that.

And also they know how to organize against Hillary.

I mean, to the extent that they want Hillary, I mean, they know that playbook.

They know that con.

You know, I mean, so I think that there is some

hard because I think they might hate it more if Trump won, because then they've got to live and defend him for four more years, and that's going to be harder.

All right, I want to talk about Bernie for a second.

I'm going to talk about him a lot because I think as much as Hillary made history this week, that campaign made history also.

We never had a leftist like that.

And,

you know,

besides the politics, I think what he demonstrated was that authenticity, real authenticity, very likable.

And the proof was people were dressing their, let's show these pictures of Bernie.

They were, these are real babies.

They were dressing up as...

as Bernie Sanders.

This went on for a long time.

I mean,

that's a lot of love.

Anyway, so we thought, because the campaign, I'm sorry, Bernie Lovers, is ending, we wanted to make an actual Bernie baby so that folks who are Bernie fans

who are Bernie fans

so that folks, if you're Bernie fans, you can relive this historic campaign for the rest of your lives.

Would you like to hear what it says when I pull the string?

Okay, let's

pull the string.

Billionaires are doing to the middle class what I just did to my diaper.

diaper.

Forget the government, T.

Where's mommy?

My opponent cares about Wall Street.

I care about Sesame Street.

Just a baby, I see.

That's.

It's not much of a part for me in this, by the way.

You'll be glad I hung around when the Hillary dog gets indicted.

Oh,

Bernie!

Now I'm doing a ventriloquist.

I crawled with Dr.

Martin Luther King.

I appealed to black voters.

I live in a crib and no one will hire me.

Oh, Bernie, now be respectful to the people.

I got a whole new act.

I named my rubber ducky the middle class.

Why?

Because it's always getting squeezed.

I see.

You think I'm a whiny little bitch?

Have you seen Donald Trump?

You ought to hashtag that whiny little bitch, Bernie.

Okay.

Last one.

Circumcision?

No, thank you.

That's one place I'm for the top 1%.

I see.

All right, Rolling Stone magazine ranked him very high on their list of best guitarists of all time.

His new group, Prophets of Rage, will soon begin its 35-city Make America Rage Again tour.

Tom Morello!

Mr.

Ranger, how are you?

What's up?

Okay.

Tom Morello.

What is your hat saying?

Make America Rage.

Make America Rage Again.

I have one that somebody said, Make America High Again with it.

Hotly.

Well, there's a lot of hats in the

upcoming year, I imagine.

So the new group is called, what is it called?

Prophets of Rage.

Okay, so Rage is always in your title.

That's correct.

That's correct.

But this group is myself and Tim and Brad from Rage Against the Machine, Chuck D and DJ Lord from the Mighty Public Enemy.

Super group.

And Be Real from Cypress Hill.

Wow.

And

one of the reasons why we formed now is because the media has both referred to the Trump campaign and the Sanders campaign constantly as raging against the machine.

We came to set the record straight, what it really means for rage against the machine.

We're embarking on a 35-city tour.

The first stop is at the Republican National Convention.

And

one of the things that we've raged against in our entire career is economic inequalities.

We wanted to make sure that there was no economic barrier to coming to the show.

Tickets start at $20, and we give away a portion of the proceeds to homeless charities in each city.

Okay.

You know, Paul Ryan is a fan of Rage Against the Machine.

Paul Ryan is a fan of Rage Against the Machine.

Hitler was a vegan.

What's your point?

Okay.

There's no litmus test for people being fans of music.

What would you do if Trump is?

He's got the PX90 workout going to Rage Against Machine.

He's not really listening to lyrics as myself.

Yeah, that's probably right.

What would you do if Trump started to use one of your songs at his rallies?

Because that happens a lot.

I'm surprised he hasn't.

Surprised me.

On the one hand, I'd be afraid of sort of fueling the media by saying anything about it, but on the other hand, I would go choke his ass out.

Right.

Yeah.

Now, I mean,

you've always been very political.

It seems like you would be a Bernie person, but you did not endorse either.

No, I didn't.

I mean, while I admire the fact that he's tried to hijack the corporate Democratic Party and make it a People's Democratic Party,

that's one strategy.

It's a fine strategy, and that may or may not work.

My strategy is pitchforks and torches and drive them all into the sea.

But then who would run chip?

Who would run you?

Well, I mean, let's all just promise to be cool.

Okay.

But you're not an anarchist.

Don't tell me that.

Where have you been, Bill?

I mean, that's like, I mean, I've not a real anarchist.

It's one thing to sing a song.

It's one thing to sing a song.

You know, anarchy would be worse.

You've seen the purge.

I was

the scheduling secretary for U.S.

Senator Craig

for two years.

So I got to see how the political sausage is made on the killing floor.

And it is absolutely disgusting.

It cured me of any desire to be for the Democratic or Republican parties.

I think the deeper problems are systemic.

And speaking up against those problems in your vocation, whether you're a talk show host or a guitar player, I think is the important part.

Well, but somebody's.

As imperfect as they are, somebody has to make the sausages because people have to eat.

Yeah.

Someone has to make the sausages, but I think that to cast your ballot into the void every four years and hope that someone's going to wave a magic wand and make the country to your liking is not the way that progressive, radical, or revolutionary change happens.

It always comes from below.

And in my music, and in our music at Prophets of Rage, that's the demographic that we speak of.

Okay.

You know, as Churchill said, democracy, the worst system, except for all the others.

Well,

as Martin Luther King said, there's no hotter place in hell than for people who stand on the sidelines during a time of moral conflict.

This is a time of moral conflict, and it's time to get off the sidelines, not just to cast a ballot, but to fight to get the wheel of history in your hands.

All right, let me answer something first.

You, Muhammad Ali, we saw his funeral today.

You met him on a plane.

I did, I did.

I did.

I was nine years old and I was flying an Air Jamaica flight from Kingston to Chicago and over the PA system.

Air Jamaica.

Air Jamaica flight.

I was in Jamaica there.

You don't even need a plane.

And over the intercom came a voice that sounded very much like Muhammad Ali and that voice said, I'm Muhammad Ali and I'm flying this airplane.

But don't worry because I'm the greatest at flying airplanes too.

And I'm confident that all of you want my autograph, so I'm going to come down the aisle and sign all your stuff.

And he did.

And I still have my Air Jamaica ticket.

Wow.

Well, you know, he was the first to do that.

I have to tell you, I was a pretty young kid when he became champion, but I was just aware enough to know that what he was doing, the bragging of the greatest stuff, was completely revolutionary.

And for everybody who's younger, who grew up in a world with hip-hop, where braggadocio is a big part of life, you know, I used to say, you know, rap is affirmative action for the ego.

Muhammad Ali invented hip-hop.

That probably would not have existed without him.

That's quite possible.

He certainly did it first.

Yeah, well, as a, as...

While his bragging may have gotten my attention, what I was attracted to Muhammad Ali was how he used his vocation to inflict his worldview on the public.

And it was unapologetic.

And there's been a little bit of a sort of a, in the same way with Nelson Mandela, a whitewashing of who Muhammad Ali was.

He was a person who said, You may not like my religion, but it's my religion.

You may not like the color of my skin or my opinions, but I'm just as American as you are, and the powers that be can shove it.

Because I'm the champion, the champion of the world, and I'm the people's champion.

And that's the thing, is a kid made me think in my vocation, I can express my opinion in a way that is unapologetic as well.

Okay.

I want to say, because

I know Bernie folks don't like to hear it, but it is over.

It did end.

I I do want to say a few things more about Bernie Sanders.

One, I don't think it matters when he gets out.

I don't think it matters.

You know, they're all shoving him.

Bernie, take all the time you want.

Do it today.

As long as he does it by the convention, at the convention, he revealed how much of this country really is left-wing.

We didn't know that before this campaign.

That is huge and historic.

Well,

people complain that Bernie in his speech the other night didn't sort of mention the historic moment of Hillary Clinton being the nominee.

But Hillary Clinton did not mention the historic moment of a socialist in the United States of America winning 22 states.

In the United States of America.

She mentioned more than he did.

I also think he could have won.

I do, because I think the people who were for him would have worked really hard.

And like I say, he revealed that it's there.

He forced the centrist in the race to go way left.

And by the way, because he's not coming over immediately, forcing her to stay there, which I understand.

I also would like to say to all the people who are saying, well, you know, he got intoxicated with the crowds.

I don't think so.

I don't know him that well, but he's done the show for a long time.

I mean, he was here a couple of weeks ago.

It was amazing with all the Secret Service and the entourage.

He used to come here in an Uber that he was driving.

He's just not the type.

I don't think he's he's intoxicated.

I think it's a bigger thing than that.

But I guess I've got to say to the Bernie folks, she did win fair and square.

There should be no.

Let me just give you the stats so you know that

there should be no quarterback controversy here, okay?

She won a majority of the pledge delegates.

She won the popular vote.

She won a majority of the states.

She won all the important swing states.

She won 27 out of 39 primaries.

If it wasn't for caucuses, which are less democratic, he wouldn't have been as competitive as he was.

And she finished big.

That was a big talking point.

Oh, you know, she's limping to the finish line.

No, she kicked his ass at the finish line.

So

it can't be the case, like I said, where it's fair when you win and rigged when you lose.

She won.

And I think it's often

seen when someone has big crowds.

that that means something.

Trump gets big crowds, he gets big crowds.

Her crowds, they're just different people.

They're older, they're women.

Would I go to a political rally?

No.

It's for people who have a lot of time on their hands.

It's who shows up in the voting booth.

Yeah.

Yes, sir.

But you don't, hold on, but you don't want Bernie just to quit it?

You don't think he has to?

I don't think he has to before the convention.

I don't think that makes a big difference.

No.

What difference does it make?

If you believe that this is a seminal election and that Trump is the game, if that's the target,

you would think any damage

that he can inflict on her.

I think he's going to do damage.

And then the other question is how much support do you think he's actually going to come out for her?

And what is she going to have to sell to do that?

I think by the time the convention comes around, he'll be there, but we'll see.

I think so, too.

I mean, do you remember that we had the same conversation eight years ago?

And it turned out to be pretty meaningless.

Remember Puma's party, Unity My Ass?

And

those are the Hillary supporters.

Remember them?

Yes.

And that turned out to be be nothing.

And Obama, but Obama basically had to give her the state.

Do you think he gave her?

Do you think she didn't earn it?

How do you?

Hold on.

She gave?

How do you, hold on, no, no, no.

She did it.

I'm not saying she's.

I'm not saying she's not deserving of it.

I'm just saying if you understand politics, you understand the game, unfortunately, which is she says, give me X, and if you give me X, I will give you Y.

That's what happens, unfortunately.

I think it's important to say that it's not a very important thing to start with cynic.

I think it's important to point out that the lesser of two evils is not a figure of speech.

Every time we hold our nose in the voting booth to vote for which one of the corporate-controlled major parties shoves down our throat, that's why there's been this Trump insurrection.

That's why there's the Sanders insurrection.

It's because people realize that systemically there's a problem that's not going to go away as long as this two-party corporate monopoly is in place.

That's very easy to say when you're easy to say when you have a comfortable life.

You know, there's like hundreds of thousands of people in Florida who did not get Medicaid

because the governor is a Republican.

And if the governor was a Democrat, an imperfect Democrat, a corporatist Democrat, they would actually be getting health care and not dying.

So it's very easy to...

I'm not arguing that there are not shades of difference between the candidates.

And those shades of difference aren't the right thing to do.

But it makes differences in actual people's lives, especially the ones who you purport.

to be most for, the poor people.

Yeah, well, and that's what there are shades of difference, but you can either settle for shades of difference or you can aim for the world you really want to live in and work for.

You can aim for it, but if you don't settle, you don't get enough.

That's an argument against women giving the right to vote.

It's an argument against slavery.

Let's just incrementally work towards that.

You don't have to settle or vote.

I mean, like, or I mean, settle or work for change.

You can do both.

That's correct.

I mean, you can choose to participate in the election.

That's correct.

But that is a change.

And you can choose to, for instance, I'm very hopeful that the Bernie people start to work at the local level.

I'm very hopeful that

this mass of young people that turned out for Bernie turn into like the religious right of the left, if that makes sense, and take over school boards and take over all these places.

Before I run out of time,

what does everybody on this panel think about this case in California, Judge Aaron Persky?

Terrible.

Okay, well, let me revert for review for people who don't follow the news.

It's kind of rough to hear, but basically, a swimmer raped somebody who was unconscious.

His name is Brock Turner.

He's a good-looking young white kid, and so the judge sentenced him to six months in the county jail, which is really not what we expect to be the punishment for a rapist.

And he said a prison sentence would have had a severe impact on him, you know, not unlike getting raped.

And lots of people brought up the fact that if this had been a black kid from the hood.

Yeah, I mean, there's Brock Turner.

And if it had been this guy, and that happens to be a model.

I was going to say.

But would he have gotten the same sentence?

Or Corey Beatty, a 19-year-old Vanderbilt football player who was sentenced to a minimum of 15 to 25 years for a case of rape recently as well.

There's no surprise.

People can be outraged, but they shouldn't be surprised.

Racism and privilege are cornerstones of the American judicial system.

So you can be mad at this judge, but you should be madder at the system, which is...

There's nothing there.

And I'd actually point out, I think this case would also be very different if the judge looked more like that model and less like Brock Turner.

That's a good point.

And wasn't also an athlete from Stanford.

Yeah, I mean, I think this is also which means this recall supposedly of Turner actually draws attention to the fact that he shouldn't have been elected in the first place.

The judges shouldn't be elected.

He stands for election.

He actually gets to stand for re-election, so he'll get out.

He'll get out of there.

To get back to the thing we were talking about at the beginning of the show with the racism and the Republicans who think the big problem in America is reverse racism, I saw in the paper today that there's something called Google Three Black Teenagers.

I mean, you can Google three black teenagers, and what comes up is,

show the picture of what comes up.

Well, there's the article.

Okay, you'll have to look closer.

Sorry, I thought we had this.

On the left are the black teenagers.

They're not looking too friendly.

And then if you Google three white teenagers,

it's a J.C.

Penny ad.

It's a JCPenney ad.

Exactly.

Now, it's just an algorithm, but it says something about the fact that, yes, Republicans, racism does exist in America.

And every place you look for it, you actually find it.

I don't think it just exists.

It's as American as apple pie and baseball.

I mean, it's part of the DNA of the country.

It's part of the DNA of the country.

But there's only one.

But Republicans do recognize racism exists.

I'm a Republican, and I recognize that racism exists, and it's a problem, and it occurred in this country.

It's not the rank and file.

The rank and file, a majority of Republicans think reverse racism is a worse problem than racism.

That's fucked up.

Come on.

That is a little messed up, I'll grant you that.

You don't think that, right?

I do not think that.

Okay, all right.

Well, thank you, panel.

You were terrific.

We have to go now to new rules.

New rule podiatrists who say crocs can lead to tendinitis have to stop missing the point.

They're not shoes.

They're birth control.

That's why they're rubber and come in fun colors.

A new rule, whatever happens to free trade in the next four years, America must never let England sell us clown meat.

Clown meat.

It's like the circus came to town in your mouth.

By the way, if Hillary is looking for a nickname to get back at Trump for saying crooked Hillary, I think clown meat might fit the bill.

Well, I'm taking this same picture of every president in the Rose Garden.

I know it's meant to capture a reflective moment that illustrates the profound loneliness of the office, but Obama was out there sneaking a smoke.

Bush locked himself out.

Oh, no.

And Clinton was getting blown.

New rule, Axel Rose of Guns N' Roses has to stop fighting to get a so-called fat photo of him taken down off the internet.

I mean, how bad can it be?

Never mind.

Never mind.

And finally,

New Rule, everyone has to admit that even though Bernie Sanders didn't win win the nomination, he's already won the future.

Now last week in this space, I talked about how socialism was something America needs more of to curtail capitalism, because the profit motive creates horrible incentives like keeping people sick.

putting too many of them in jail, always being at war, and treating a woman touching Donald Trump's Trump's hair as breaking news.

But let's not romanticize socialism the way conservatives romanticize capitalism.

These are economic systems, not your first kiss.

So if you say

If you say the word socialism to people under 40, their reaction is night and day from that of baby boomers, for whom socialism has always been seen as communism's gay cousin.

But for millennials, the word socialism doesn't conjure up images of Stalin and Castro.

It conjures up images of naked Danish people on a month-long paid vacation.

Millennials don't remember a threatening Soviet Union or any Soviet Union.

The only time they've ever had to crouch under a desk was to go down on their teacher.

So the new generation is ready for socialism.

Problem is, they may be ready for a little too much socialism.

Almost two-thirds of Sanders voters want free college and free universal health coverage for no more than an extra thousand dollars in taxes, even though that's not really socialism.

That's Santaism.

And look, no one is arguing that millennials haven't gotten a rotten deal in this economy, but they've also gotten too used to getting shit for free.

We've accepted that the new normal in America is people in their 20s and even 30s still on their parents' cell phone plans and health care care plans, and mom and dad still paying the car insurance, and almost a third of them are still living at home.

And if you're a millennial, you may never have known the concept of paying for things that all of us used to pay for.

I'm a baby boomer.

I think the natural order of things is to pay for music I like.

To do less than that doesn't make you a revolutionary.

It makes you the person who goes to the bathroom when the check comes.

And it's not just music, pornography.

I was still in my prime masturbating years when

porn became free and I saw how it decimated a proud industry

that once produced full-length features with plots and pubic hair.

And just like with musicians, the men and women of the adult industry who entertain and divert, and yes, release

millions of Americans every day deserve to be paid for what they do.

Think about the long hours put in by horny housewives and naughty secretaries and the hard-working, shaved-head, dead-eyed meth addicts plowing them.

They're not doing it for shits and giggles.

That costs extra.

When I hear about people stealing porn, I have one question.

Where do you get off?

Porn doesn't just happen, people.

Locations must be scouted.

Sets must be built.

Wood must be maintained.

The point is, if you add up all the free things that the under 40 crowd is used to getting, from the quick jerk at work

to being able to sit in Starbucks all day for the price of a scone from music to Wi-Fi to birth control it's not such a jarring proposition when socialism comes along and says you are entitled to free stuff and that in turn must be why there's this proliferation of websites like Kickstarter and go fund me go fund me GoFund yourself

all right that's our show I'll be at the Mirage in Las Vegas July 22nd and 23rd I want to thank Andrew Ross Circuit Anna Marie Cox Katie Packer Tom Morello, and Senator Barbara Box to join us now for overtime on YouTube.

Thank you, folks.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10, or watch him anytime on HBO On Demand.

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