The Big Suey: The League of Leagues (feat. Dave Dameshek)

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Speaker 1 It really does. I mean, a new tattoo, a bad haircut, waffle challenges.

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Speaker 1 Welcome to the Big SUE,

Speaker 8 presented by DraftKings.

Speaker 7 Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Lebetard podcast.

Speaker 9 I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that.

Speaker 7 In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's prize that if they're just there.

Speaker 7 That hasn't happened to you guys.

Speaker 2 I've done it.

Speaker 7 And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face, and the habitual liar.

Speaker 10 Today's episode is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours.

Speaker 10 We got football last night. We had a couple preseason games.
We got a bunch of football tomorrow. Dolphins, home preseason game.
First and only home preseason game. Oh my God, you're out there.

Speaker 10 When you were playing Hawk, when you were playing the preseason, did you ever look up in the stands like, man, these suckers, they love football so much?

Speaker 8 Not a single time.

Speaker 4 Why are you here?

Speaker 10 It's the fourth, it's the third preseason.

Speaker 8 Not one iota of a second did I ever look up and be like, man, these are real love, real-life ball lovers up there.

Speaker 2 No, never.

Speaker 8 I was told, i was you know i was too focused on like trying not to be sent home to live with my mom

Speaker 8 preseason was always a i never had like the preseasons where like oh this doesn't matter it was the extra like you were in sweats and like a shirt do you never had those preseasons no man i always like even the moments where it was like y'all you're a veteran i had to act like i didn't care like i didn't know the lane for me to get cut and be sent home so it was always a very important game it was always 18 game seasons for your boy it was every one of them.

Speaker 10 So Dolphins tomorrow. Dolphins are hosting the Jaguars, but we got a lot of games.
All right. And this season, new, Metal Arc Media, Football America.

Speaker 10 And of course, our pal is Dave Damaszek. You got a new episode of Football America today.

Speaker 10 And then once season starts, we're doing Mondays and we're doing Fridays.

Speaker 10 We're recapping the week of games. We're setting you up for the week of games.
Dave, how you doing? Good to see you.

Speaker 12 I'm doing well. I got a belly full of Thai food and I'm ready to talk football.
Let's jump into it, shall we? I heard you guys talking about Jameis Winston. Fun anecdote.

Speaker 12 A few years back at NFL Honors on the red carpet, I used to give inconvenient gifts to guys as they would walk into honors to have to carry around a you know, a 36-pack of double roll toilet paper and giant balloons and a cello and a chandelier and everything else.

Speaker 12 I once gave Jameis

Speaker 12 a goldfish in a bowl and he loved it and he took it home. I'd love to get an update on how that goldfish is doing.

Speaker 10 Just taking care of the goldfish in the bowl for the rest of the night.

Speaker 8 I can almost guarantee he didn't, that goldfish didn't make it out that weekend.

Speaker 4 You know, I've had a beta fish for like a year and a half.

Speaker 10 Really? Beta fishes don't normally last that long.

Speaker 4 Me and my wife, like, we're expecting it to go anytime now. Yeah.

Speaker 8 Yeah, but we're still doing it.

Speaker 4 Look at us.

Speaker 10 Good first fish for a little kid.

Speaker 9 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 10 That's a good job out of you there. Dave, can you remember a scenario like this with Jameis Winson, number one overall pick?

Speaker 10 I mean, by all accounts, he was a bust, and yet is still so popular popular everywhere he goes.

Speaker 12 I was trying to think if there's any comparison to it, and I really can't come up with one.

Speaker 12 I mean, here's a bad answer for you, but Todd Blackledge is now decades and decades later still broadcasting big-time football games, and he was a gigantic bust for the Chiefs in the draft that, of course, included Dan Marino, among others.

Speaker 10 How you feeling about your Steelers? Last night, obviously, they beat the Panthers. Who cares? And we haven't seen Aaron Rodgers yet.
How you feeling?

Speaker 12 Listen, you know, we've been over it. Preseason football is the OGAI.
I mean, it's just all fake nonsense. None of it matters once the real thing gets going here.

Speaker 12 I think the defense is going to dominate. I really do think that they're built to do that.
I think it all comes down to the offensive line.

Speaker 12 Aaron Rodgers is a first ballot Hall of Famer, obviously, but he's 41 also. And so he is not.

Speaker 12 Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and Drew Brees have set a weird level of expectation for guys that depend upon athleticism. And Aaron Rodgers is one of those guys.

Speaker 12 And his ability to move the way he did in his prime no longer exists.

Speaker 12 So if you're anticipating Aaron Rodgers to be the positive difference maker that gets the Steelers over the hump, I think you're being overly optimistic.

Speaker 10 Has anything, yes, it's preseason football, of course, but has anything stood out to you as a bit of a surprise these first few weeks?

Speaker 12 I really do try to turn away because it is a month-long lie for your eyes, what you see. What I do anticipate, though, is that the Bears are going to be, you know,

Speaker 12 spoiler alert, like you mentioned, we have Jeff Schwartz on Football America today. We're going to seed both conferences one through seven.

Speaker 12 And I

Speaker 12 did not have the Bears. That's the one thing I'll say.
I don't have the Bears in the mix, and I'm already sort of devil's damage in that decision.

Speaker 12 I don't know if maybe I should have put Caleb in there. I am.
I really do love the robbing Peter to pay Paul effect of taking Ben Johnson away from the Lions and putting him on a division foe.

Speaker 12 I do think that that could actually tilt that whole division.

Speaker 10 Hop, did you care for Caleb Williams' performance in his debut last week? I think he's going to be really good.

Speaker 8 I think he looked good, man. I think the way he was making decisions, he seemed decisive.
You can tell he was going through a process.

Speaker 8 Like when I like judge a coach, I look at the players and I say, okay, can I find the thing that they're harping on?

Speaker 8 And when you watch that offense in those first couple of drives, like he's making big throws down the middle but watch the o-line watch how they like after the play is thrown they're chasing the ball going to get set there's a tempo to him the receivers the quarterback seems like he's in control he doesn't seem like he's guessing he's saying okay i'm making this decision i'm making this play on to the next that comes from coaching so yeah i absolutely loved what i saw he still had a couple of moments i remember i think on the

Speaker 8 like you know off script through to a running back where he almost got him murdered on the field but if he can continue to eliminate those i saw a track where there was progress from what we saw a year ago, which means to me, the Lions are going to have trouble without Ben Johnson early on.

Speaker 8 And how they kind of respond to that will

Speaker 8 determine what their ceiling looks like.

Speaker 12 I mean, and practically, too, by the way, fellas,

Speaker 12 40% of their offensive line is gone. That's bad for a team that is predicated on beating the crap out of teams.
I mean, that's not a small matter to lose both coordinators. Really,

Speaker 12 the analog to me is to use a fancy word, is the Philadelphia Eagles, who everybody is trying to mimic. If you don't have the superhero quarterback, you try and offset that

Speaker 12 by physical ball and all that. And that's what the Lions have done.
And that's what the Eagles have done in two Super Bowls out of the last three.

Speaker 12 The Lions are a year or two behind where the Eagles are. Remember what happened to them in between those two Super Bowl runs, which was they lost both of their coordinators.

Speaker 12 And it wasn't like in week one, they immediately fell off a cliff. It was a gentle slide over the course of four four months.
I think that's what's going to happen to the Lions.

Speaker 10 Dave, what do you make of Indianapolis right now? Anthony Richardson, I mean, he's got to be done in Indianapolis, right?

Speaker 12 I guess he's done, but, you know,

Speaker 12 you're talking about all these busts who then re-emerge as halfway decent. And I guess that list starts with Jim Plunkett and you have Alex Smith this millennium.

Speaker 12 And so I don't think necessarily, what is Anthony Richardson at this point? I'm going to guess 23 years old. I don't think you need to throw dirt on him just yet.
I like the Colts, though.

Speaker 12 I know that that's crazy, but I think Lou Anarumo didn't get enough buzz in Cincy because it's not like it was a dominant defense on the other side for Joe Burrow and company to lean on, but it was good and it was relevant enough that they went to that one Super Bowl.

Speaker 12 It just about got to a second one, both going through Arrowhead. Now he goes over to Indy and I just invoked the Eagles.
Vic Fangio's effect on the Eagles defense a year ago.

Speaker 12 I wouldn't be stunned if the Colts are sort of a poor man's version of that with Anarumo now taking over the defense.

Speaker 12 Plus, Jonathan Taylor, they can beat you up a little bit running the ball in a relatively soft AFC South. I like the Colts.

Speaker 10 Okay,

Speaker 10 I'm going to take a local spin here. All right.
I'm going to be very,

Speaker 10 I'm going to selfishly ask you about the Dolphins, Dave.

Speaker 10 The Dolphins, to me, I don't think there's a middle ground. I could see, you know what? Maybe there could be like an 11-win team.

Speaker 6 Things go right.

Speaker 10 Offense gets back on track. Big-time pass rush or

Speaker 10 big-time cannon cannon for hot mess team, like four weeks.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 10 I don't think there's a middle ground there. What do you make of that?

Speaker 12 I think that there are teams every year that sort of fit that description. And yes, where it seems where McDaniel is in this experience, that the spiral effect could take over there.

Speaker 12 I completely agree. We talked about it, Zaz, previously.
You know, the idea that the Dolphins have no shot this year requires that you have amnesia from what happened two years ago.

Speaker 12 Last year, kind of with the whole, you know, Tua and the fencing

Speaker 12 again and Tyree Kill and Jalen Watt, all the injuries on the defense once again. I think you just skip past what happened last year and instead focus on two years ago.

Speaker 12 The critical game in the McDaniel era. I don't want to get hyperbolic, but the critical game was that Monday night game against the Tennessee Titans.

Speaker 12 If they would have just held on in that game, they win the East that year, then they don't have to go to Arrowhead where it was minus 200 degrees that night.

Speaker 12 And so they had no shot when they took the field. For that one, things feel very different.
If they beat the Steelers, they probably host Pittsburgh in the wild card round with a division crown.

Speaker 12 They probably beat Pittsburgh in that one. And then we regard Mike McDaniel and Tu and all the rest of it very differently than we do right now.
Of course, the reality is the reality.

Speaker 12 Hey, is Chris in there? I wanted to give him a shout out. I'm here.

Speaker 2 Great idea.

Speaker 12 Don't do that. Or was it Billy? I forget who it was, was talking talking about making trades in fantasy.
Oh, Billy.

Speaker 12 I think here I was in a league a couple of years ago. I thought it was me.
It was the league of leagues. And you could, it was a fantasy league.
It was NFL. It was Major League Baseball.

Speaker 12 And it was NBA.

Speaker 12 I'm going to throw it out here right now.

Speaker 12 Let's do a whole network, one of these, and you can trade. And in fact, to inspire it, you guys in Miami,

Speaker 12 I'm a Pittsburgh fan. I'm in L.A., but what if you had a general manager, not just for your one team in the city, but for all the teams in the city, so that we could really open things up?

Speaker 12 Wouldn't it be nice if I could float the idea of maybe Paul Skeens to you guys?

Speaker 12 What's the city of Miami willing to give back to the city of Pittsburgh in exchange for the greatest asset in Major League Baseball?

Speaker 10 Okay, hold on a second. All right, because there was a lot that you just threw out.

Speaker 8 I threw a lot. Yeah,

Speaker 10 hold on a second. Let's go back to the beginning there.
You were in a league where it's multiple leagues that are in the league, multiple sports, multiple sports that are in the league.

Speaker 12 Yes, league of leagues. And

Speaker 12 yeah,

Speaker 12 it was dynamite stuff. And the best part was the draft because you're kind of like, do I go Kevin Durant here?

Speaker 12 Or do I go, you know,

Speaker 12 Shoey Atani? And those sorts of debates.

Speaker 3 Or Jamar Chase.

Speaker 12 Yeah, that kind of stuff is

Speaker 2 started with this idea.

Speaker 3 Like a year ago, I had this idea of like trading teams and cities and trading players. Like, all right, Kansas City, we'll send you Sandy Alcantaro and whatever other players we have for

Speaker 11 the baseball team, but you send us back Patrick Mahomes.

Speaker 3 Who's a GM? Inner-city trades is what I call it. Who's the GM?

Speaker 1 The South Florida would be Bill Zito for all of you.

Speaker 6 We're not letting Riley ruin this one.

Speaker 2 This one. Bill Zito.
It's got to be Bill Zito. Not Chris Greer.

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 12 Well, I'm taking, I assume Hawk gets all of the state of Ohio. Is that right? I'm sorry, Hawk.
I'm going to claim Western Pennsylvania. I know you would like to have it.

Speaker 8 Yeah, you can have it. It's okay.
Even though I am also from Western Pennsylvania.

Speaker 12 I know. I know.
But you wore that nice Alouette uniform, but more importantly, you wore both orange hats and

Speaker 8 the AFC.

Speaker 8 As long as we establish that I'm also from Western Pennsylvania, along with you, went to the same high school as Jack Hamm. who I know you know who Jack Ham is.

Speaker 8 I don't know if anyone here knows who Jack Ham is. Is that John's brother?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 12 People don't know who 59 is, the hammer. They don't know who's great.

Speaker 2 They don't know, Dave.

Speaker 12 One of the great OLBs

Speaker 12 in football history.

Speaker 2 You know what?

Speaker 8 They're not real ball knowers like you, Dave. And speaking of John Hamm, weren't you in the John Hamm Fantasy League where you guys kicked the guy out on draft?

Speaker 12 I still am, and the draft is upcoming.

Speaker 8 That's my favorite story.

Speaker 12 Everybody's on pins and needles, right?

Speaker 8 My favorite draft rule that I've ever heard is that when you guys tell that story, like no one knows who's going to get kicked out the day of the draft. You guys know this?

Speaker 4 We did it a couple of weeks ago with Dave.

Speaker 8 Sorry about that.

Speaker 2 I'll have so much fun when your head's on the

Speaker 12 hawk. It's uh, my head's on the chopping block, and I can assure you that it is not fun.
It's not fun.

Speaker 8 I hope you sound scary in that seat.

Speaker 12 I once uh saw Jack Ham, my sister Amy, and I saw Jack Ham at a Penguins game, and uh, we said, Oh, we got to go get his autograph.

Speaker 12 We were little kids, and we went over to him and uh said, Hey, uh, big fan, uh, Mr. Ham, can we get your autograph? And he said, Sure thing.

Speaker 12 And they went like, went like, and uh, he went like, uh, uh, sorry, sorry your pen doesn't work and that was my jack ham experience yeah that was my jack ham did he like try to shake the pen a little bit he's like that's not working you gotta put the tip on your tongue maybe to try and get the ink going like that right

Speaker 12 i should have done that hey uh hey there he is double 59 for the viewer hey uh nice eyes

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Speaker 9 Don Lebatard.

Speaker 12 Where the mother Roiz at? Dung his ass on here.

Speaker 10 Where's the motherfucker? Roes is a great question.

Speaker 6 Stugats.

Speaker 12 Running, huh? He's running today, huh?

Speaker 2 I'm ready.

Speaker 9 This is the Don Lebatard show with the Stugats.

Speaker 12 Hawk, I start with you.

Speaker 12 This is a question that

Speaker 12 we're going to dip into a little bit. And in fact, I heard you guys on the show the other day talking about this.

Speaker 12 The idea of America's team.

Speaker 12 Now, of course, from a marketing perspective, the Dallas Cowboys pounced on that decades ago after the Pittsburgh Steelers, Dan Rooney, said, do you want to be America's team?

Speaker 12 I think it was an NFL Films concoction. And they said to the Rooney, do you want this? And he said, no, no, we're not America's team.
We're Pittsburgh's team. That's nice.

Speaker 13 That's what he said.

Speaker 2 Black and gold over red, white, and blue. All right.

Speaker 12 But okay, the Cowboys had no dignity and they embraced it.

Speaker 12 And so now they still claim it. But if we can have a new American idol every year, I think we can have a new

Speaker 12 America's team every year. And I think we should vote on it every year.
Hawk, I mean, are the Browns in the running for that?

Speaker 12 Would you float them as an option?

Speaker 8 I would float the Browns as an option. Now, look,

Speaker 8 I don't know how you would determine America's team on a year-to-year basis outside of the Super Bowl, right? That feels like the easiest way to determine it.

Speaker 8 But if it's going to be a delineation between that and how we're determining who America's team is, I would say the Browns are in that running. Here would be my argument, Dave.

Speaker 8 Because

Speaker 8 what team gets talked about more consistently on a year-to-year basis with less on-field success? Like most teams

Speaker 8 in that size market with that lack of success never get talked about. But routinely, the Browns are a topic year in, year out, damn near week in and week out.

Speaker 4 This is more of the guys they bring in, though. Like they brought in Johnny Manzel.

Speaker 2 They bring in Shadir Sanders.

Speaker 8 Oh, this is, I'm telling you.

Speaker 2 About Deshaun Watson. Yeah, Deshaun Watson.

Speaker 9 Yeah, they do.

Speaker 2 Oh, of course.

Speaker 8 But still, it's still crazy. Even when they were losing like one in 15, 0 and 16.

Speaker 2 I think you're right.

Speaker 8 It was continual, like, it's continual coverage.

Speaker 2 I think Haslam.

Speaker 4 Haslam likes the guy. He likes the, you know, let's take a chance on this guy.

Speaker 8 And then he'd be making it even before Haslam. I'm telling you.

Speaker 12 I think it's also, I would suggest talk. Why is that? Is because they are, they are.
generally pretty dreadful.

Speaker 12 Sincerely, they're usually so bad that they draft high, so they're relevant because you talk about them all spring. Who are the Browns going to take first overall?

Speaker 2 They have the third overall pick.

Speaker 12 They are, you know, they're always in the mix, so you're always buzzing. And then you have the lag of four months after they're they're drafted.
How's this guy going to do?

Speaker 12 Is he going to erase the curse? Spoiler alert, he's not going to erase it.

Speaker 2 He did.

Speaker 8 Whoever you're talking about didn't do it.

Speaker 8 But my point, Dave, is there's other dreadful organizations and teams with the same level, if not like more lack of success than the Browns over the last 20 years.

Speaker 8 But the story, the lore of like Cleveland being one of those

Speaker 8 football towns, Paul Brown comes from there. He gets sent over to Cincinnati, starts a new franchise.
They take their team and go to Baltimore.

Speaker 8 It's like people empathize with Cleveland so much that if they ever did become like perenni successful, everyone would be on that train.

Speaker 10 We have a breaking news here.

Speaker 6 Mike, what do we got? We have a formal trade proposal from South Florida to Los Angeles to bring back LeBron James.

Speaker 2 Whoa.

Speaker 2 Steve. Whoa.

Speaker 4 So not news at all.

Speaker 12 I'm in L.A., but I am not the ambassador. I am not the general manager for L.A.

Speaker 12 I know it's confusing. I am the general manager of the banks of the three.

Speaker 2 Not right now.

Speaker 6 Right now, you're running L.A.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 12 Wait, what do we have to get to get?

Speaker 2 Hey, wait, this is all about

Speaker 8 your area, and you're in L.A. Why would you be the Pittsburgh GM?

Speaker 8 You're literally as far away from Pittsburgh as

Speaker 8 anybody.

Speaker 4 Sounds like Pawk wants Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you want Pittsburgh?

Speaker 2 You gave me Ohio without any.

Speaker 12 And Hawk trying to talk about how he's Mr. Cleveland and Mr.
Pittsburgh while he sits in South Beach. I mean, what are we talking about, friend?

Speaker 2 You should flip a coin or something. Don't get me angry.

Speaker 12 He's trying to see. This is, he's trying to see.

Speaker 8 Got a really good franchise.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 6 LeBron James. Okay.

Speaker 12 Let's throw in Austin Reeves, too.

Speaker 2 Okay. I like that.

Speaker 6 And Ricky Pooge from the LA Galaxy.

Speaker 10 I don't know that fool.

Speaker 6 Oh, he's really good.

Speaker 12 I think I've got the perfect answer for you. I think easy peasy.

Speaker 10 Four, Tyreek Hill.

Speaker 13 Sandy alcantra wow

Speaker 2 andrew wiggins that's a haul

Speaker 6 evan rodriguez we're giving up too much and manu

Speaker 10 oh wow sets the cyclone you guys don't know how good rookie pooch is best back order in the league manu this is very interesting because also the evan rodriguez departure clears up money for the panthers which is going to be needed when matthew kachuk comes off long-term ir dave your thoughts evan rodriguez middle sixer we can survive without him here on the Kings.

Speaker 12 We do not claim the Ducks here. No one pays attention to the Ducks in Southern California.
So I'm going to make L.A.'s hockey team.

Speaker 12 I don't want to play fast and loose with this very important game we're playing here. And I am not going to claim Orange County teams here.

Speaker 12 I like it. You could go.
I love the deal. It's a haul.
I think you're trying to overwhelm me with a bunch of names. Easy peasy.

Speaker 12 Tua to the Rams is the answer because we don't know what's going to be with Stafford.

Speaker 8 You get the.

Speaker 4 You got to throw someone else in. If you're throwing Tua in, then you got to throw someone else in.

Speaker 2 Do you understand how Tyreek? Negotiating works?

Speaker 6 Do you want to replace Tyree? He wants Tua?

Speaker 2 Yeah, he wants to see LeBron for Tua straight up. Ooh, Tua.

Speaker 12 And Tyreek, Tua and Tyreek Law.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's too much. That's too much.
Wow, but that's Miami du Chu.

Speaker 12 That's too much for LeBron and Austin Reed.

Speaker 2 LeBron's 41.

Speaker 6 Wait, Miami does this, I think, to bring LeBron back.

Speaker 12 Of course they would. You wouldn't purge the Tua contract? Obviously, you would.

Speaker 12 I can't believe I'm already getting this angry about this.

Speaker 2 Wow. Tua for LeBron.

Speaker 6 Throw in Stafford.

Speaker 6 throwing stafford okay okay we're good

Speaker 2 you get the you get the over the hill game

Speaker 12 i don't think rams fans are going to be happy with me negotiating on their behalf but yes it does make sense to me we'll give you a rosier

Speaker 10 one more year stafford's got one more year this is a this is a good deal also sandy's gonna be like the number four on the dodgers you get you get rozier to make the cap work yeah yeah you got to take him do what you want with him but you got to take rozier all right it sounds like we got something cooking there, Dave.

Speaker 10 Dave, I want to play something for you here. So I'm not sure if you're aware, but in Dallas, there is a contract situation going on right now.

Speaker 12 I heard about this. Yeah.

Speaker 10 Maca with Micah Parsons. And so Jerry Jones yesterday, Hawk, I don't know if you've heard this yet.
So Jerry Jones appeared yesterday on Michael Irvin's,

Speaker 10 I think it's a YouTube channel, YouTube show. And Jerry Jones appeared on the show with Michael Irvin.
And give this a listen here.

Speaker 10 This is Jerry explaining the details of what's going on with Michael Parsons.

Speaker 15 When we wanted to send the details to the agent, the agents told us to stick it up our ass.

Speaker 2 Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 15 Wait, now see, I was going to say, just so you're clear.

Speaker 16 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 15 What do you mean? So, so we

Speaker 16 mean people.

Speaker 16 Mike and I.

Speaker 15 Yeah, Mike and I talked, and then we were going to send it over to the agent.

Speaker 15 And we had our agreements on term, amount, guarantees, everything we were going to send it over to the agent and the agent said uh uh don't bother uh because we've got all that to negotiate well i'd already negotiated i'd already moved off my mark over several areas and so the issue very frankly is uh we've had the negotiation in my mind

Speaker 10 hock you want to go first as a former player yeah

Speaker 10 the they they jerry is saying that not just that like he threw a number at micah he's saying they negotiated him and the player which is weird because because the player has representation for a reason.

Speaker 10 But they they negotiated and then they sent over the terms to the agent who is David Mulagueta and Jerry claims that Mulligetta told him to stick it up his ass.

Speaker 8 Yeah, that's what the agent should have told him because that's, I mean, just being honest for a second, that's such bullshit.

Speaker 8 Like that is not how business works and that is not why Micah is paying his agent in the first place, right?

Speaker 8 Because now if you're going to negotiate the contract directly with him without telling his agent, you should also pay back the 3% that he's given to his agent on top of whatever it is.

Speaker 8 Add that 3% into the contract on a guaranteed basis in year one or whatever the hell it is.

Speaker 8 It's just a very old school and archaic way of doing business, and it's not good business, it's bad business.

Speaker 8 And I think that's Jerry's problem is that he's stuck in this era where it's almost a zero-sum game.

Speaker 8 Either I win or you win, or me showing my dominance in a deal is what makes me a good business person, as opposed to it being a deal that we both feel good about, so much so at the end of three years, years we want to go back into business together and he alienates these star players and he drags it out because he feels like he has to be the dominant one in the deal and the reality is he loses every damn deal he does because he waits to the last second in this hope of like well maybe they're going to approach this like it's still 1972 and david mullagetta who i have no connection to don't know him personally except for he represents some of the biggest names in all of professional football obviously that's not going to fly with him because he's seasoned in this area.

Speaker 8 So that's Jerry's problem, and that's why it is an issue. And I hope they stick to their guns on it because most times when players do, Jerry loses the deal.

Speaker 8 And then not only does he lose the deal from a terms perspective, he also has a disgruntled player who then approaches the organization a lot differently because they don't want to reward them for what they've put in the first three or four years of that contract.

Speaker 12 Yeah, it feels like the Cowboys, because of JR JR and company, now have a certain stink on them. And it then is bad for the organization going forward because,

Speaker 12 you know, this sort of modeling with a guy who is a franchise player who should be there locked up for the next decade or more. Now, that bad experience, now other free agents, I assume, does that.

Speaker 12 I have a question about all that to get to the end of the story here, Hawk. Very quickly, though, back to the GM hat.
Paul Skeens for Micah Parsons, Jason Robertson, CeeDee Lamb, and Dak Prescott.

Speaker 12 What a haul, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's not bad.

Speaker 12 You got to make that deal, though. You still got to make that deal if you're Dallas, right?

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Speaker 11 Holidays? Fun.

Speaker 3 Holidays as a dad?

Speaker 2 Tough.

Speaker 11 Travel, gifts, matching pajamas. Don't get me started on matching pajamas.
It's hot in Miami. My wife says, why don't you want to do this with us? My daughter's crying.

Speaker 2 Anyways, school parties, hosting a family.

Speaker 11 Next thing I know, I basically put Christmas on my credit card and have no idea what I spent where.

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Speaker 8 I swear.

Speaker 9 Don Lebatard.

Speaker 6 World RAR 3.

Speaker 6 Stugats.

Speaker 2 We're going to get that off the wall.

Speaker 6 World RAR 3. Colon.
Our group chat has a pretty good feeling about this one.

Speaker 9 This is the Don Lebatar show with the Stugats.

Speaker 12 Pittsburgh contingent should pump the brakes on making any deal until they hear the formal offer.

Speaker 2 Whoa.

Speaker 6 From Team Miami. Yeah.

Speaker 12 Oh, okay. Well, I mean, we're out there now.

Speaker 12 Listen, there's no, because we're in a negotiation doesn't mean who's the jammer, though.

Speaker 4 Is it Hawker?

Speaker 2 Well, you can both weigh in on this.

Speaker 12 Pittsburgh, here's what we want.

Speaker 13 We want Sidney Crosby and we want Mike Tomlin.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 2 we.

Speaker 2 We're not going to be able to do that.

Speaker 12 Here's the offer. You're going to want to hear this offer.

Speaker 2 We.

Speaker 10 For Messi.

Speaker 12 Yeah.

Speaker 12 We have no interest.

Speaker 2 What do you mean? River.

Speaker 2 The River House. The counts become a river

Speaker 2 right away.

Speaker 12 Well, listen,

Speaker 12 I know that there would be no way that

Speaker 12 the plan would be allowed to land

Speaker 12 down near Miami with Roy there standing in the way. He would get out on the runway and not allow 87's plan to hit soil there in the Sunshine State.
So it's a non-starter.

Speaker 8 I like Messi in what he does to the economy in Western Pennsylvania. Send Messi to Prince.

Speaker 12 Isn't he 42?

Speaker 2 I mean, what does it matter?

Speaker 6 He's 39.

Speaker 8 It's the same deal that Miami signed with him. Like, hey, we just need you as a mascot.

Speaker 2 Crosby's old.

Speaker 2 I'm going to give you billions.

Speaker 6 It's not like these are young bucks.

Speaker 13 Mike Tomlin and Sidney Crosby, they're at the end of their run over in Pittsburgh. You get messy and you become a major league soccer town for, you know, a couple of years.

Speaker 2 This is huge for the River.

Speaker 4 We'll throw in Otto Lopez.

Speaker 12 Somebody turn off Mike's mic. Because, I mean, I'm not going to indulge this talk about dealing away 87, not in the twilight of his

Speaker 12 singular career.

Speaker 2 All right, you can keep it.

Speaker 4 All All right, we'll throw Spo in, but he can do any sport you want because you guys don't have basketball.

Speaker 12 Hey, Pitt Panthers, you're getting an upgrade.

Speaker 12 Hey, but Hawk, jump to the end for the fans because I think this is the funny thing. There's always, I think, as human beings, we understand.

Speaker 12 I think most of us will side with the proletariat over the bourgeoisie, even if it is multi-millionaires in the proletariat that we're talking about here.

Speaker 12 But as the football season season is nigh, and now that we can see it out on the near horizon, fans start to turn and they worry about what their team is going to do once the thing kicks off here.

Speaker 12 Is Micah Parsons really going to skip games? Do you think it's conceivable that he doesn't, he's not in uniform in week one?

Speaker 12 Because, you know, I think that it looks to me like he's not going to be in uniform.

Speaker 8 Yeah, I don't think he will. And I don't think he should be.
There's nothing to prove for Micah Parsons.

Speaker 8 Micah Parsons can sit out the entire season and somebody will pay him because we know exactly what he is as a player. And we know he's not even close to reaching his full potential.

Speaker 8 And that's the scary part about Micah Parsons because he's so talented and he is still ascending as a player.

Speaker 8 There's no value to him suiting up in week one and risking getting hurt again, especially for a team whose success so hinges upon him being who he is. Right.

Speaker 8 That's where the leverage point of Jerry Jones is like, you have none because there are players that are worse than Micah that have signed the highest paid player in the NFL absent of being a quarterback.

Speaker 8 And we know that's where Micah's trajectory is. We know that is the contract.
He is going to sign what he deserves.

Speaker 8 And you should go out of your way to try to work this out and not try to get a discount on that because the precedent has been set.

Speaker 12 But the leverage is, you say Jerry doesn't have any leverage. Micah is young.

Speaker 12 But look at a recent hold out, hold in with Cam Hayward, and now he's shown up at Steelers Camp, and it seems like they're going to move forward there.

Speaker 12 The leverage is your career is very limited, how many years you're getting to be out there. Cam Hayward has maybe one or two years left.
Micah Parsons has a decade probably, but still,

Speaker 12 that is the inherent leverage you would think is like, you really going to waste a season of your career, man? You're really going to sit out a prime year of your deal.

Speaker 12 And I think it's a little bit different. You talk about 1972.
The rhetoric was always hawk. When you were playing, it was like, oh, if a player misses a season, he'll never be the same again.

Speaker 12 If you sat out a season, you just, you got to be in football all the time or else you just lose something from it. I don't think that's true anymore.

Speaker 12 I think there are a number of examples of a guy sitting out years and coming back and being fine and maybe even refreshed. So I think Micah Parsons could sit out the season.

Speaker 12 The leverage is, for what it matters, is that the America's alleged

Speaker 12 sizable fan base really villainizing demonizing Micah Parsons for not showing up that's what I'm getting at like this close to the season people like Micah you're ruining it this offense is the greatest and we need you out there and we could maybe make some hay in the NFC East but you're not there and you're being selfish and I think I think it where it helps Micah is that selfish is the norm in Dallas like

Speaker 8 To go on a podcast and say crazy stuff is what you're used to with the Dallas Cowboys. It's different with L'Aveon Bale.

Speaker 8 Pittsburgh isn't used to having bad headlines with their organization or people being disgruntled with the Roonies or anybody there.

Speaker 8 So it was like he turned his whole fan base who loved him because he was a part of their organization against him because it was so against what they're used to. Dallas is different.

Speaker 8 Like, no one is going to cry for Jerry Jones because Micah Parsons takes him takes the players, right?

Speaker 12 That's

Speaker 12 the thing that undid Levy and Bell, the thing that ruined the situation. Levy and Bell had every intention of coming back to the team in week three or at latest week eight or nine.

Speaker 12 And I know a lot of the stuff that was going on week to week in that situation.

Speaker 12 And he was, what, what really made him raw was the team saying stuff, guys in the locker room, like, well, Levian should be here and all of that. And that's what hurt his feelings.

Speaker 12 I don't know if the Cowboys players are saying that.

Speaker 2 No, absolutely not.

Speaker 8 They're going to be like, man, I'm glad somebody did it. Yeah, I went through the same thing.
I know exactly because CD understands. Zach Martin understands.

Speaker 8 Dak Prescott understands because he does this every year. And it's like, well, Micah has the most leverage out of all of them, in my opinion.
Right.

Speaker 8 So yeah, I don't think he'll lose anything by losing games, like as far as public perception or in the locker room.

Speaker 10 Let me play the other side for a moment here.

Speaker 10 Jerry should not be negotiating with players without their representation. Obviously, like it's a dirty move.
He's trying to trick Micah Parsons if you're doing that.

Speaker 10 Like I remember Bill Parcells pulled that one time. Was it with Ricky Williams maybe here in Miami?

Speaker 10 Parcells parcels he slid the you know napkin with an offer to ricky's like what are you doing you gotta talk to his agents you know uh so it's it's a dirty move and jerry knows that but jerry's making it sound like he and micah negotiated that they talked about a bunch of different things and that part to me is weird like i can understand jerry trying to make an offer and micah's like yeah that sounds good talk to my agent but jerry is making it sound like they sat down and negotiated things and then he sent the paperwork to the agent who told him to stick it up his ass.

Speaker 10 And now Jerry refuses to talk to the agent because it's like he's essentially trying to sun him. Where it's like, no, this is already done.
Because there was a comment on the screen up here.

Speaker 10 It's right there. Look, there's only three entities involved in the Micah Parsons deal that really count.
This is from Jerry Jones. Micah, me, and sitting out there by a mile back is that agent.

Speaker 10 So he's clearly, he clearly does not want to have any kind of business dealings with this agent. What do you do now?

Speaker 8 Yeah, well, and then you're going going to miss games. And it's, screw Jerry Jones.
If I'm the agent, if I'm Micah, like that is not how business is done. It is predatory.

Speaker 8 And everybody understands it's predatory. And again, it's, this is 1970 where you can get that kind of dumb shit off.
Like you purposely are going into it that way. Micah Parsons is not an agent.

Speaker 8 He has not had enough life experience to negotiate the best deal he possibly can, even if you thought it was a negotiation.

Speaker 8 Because the reason why I have an agent, the reason why I have a financial advisor, the reason why I have a realtor, and so I could just be like, yeah, that sounds good. Talk to them.
Right.

Speaker 8 Like, I'm getting rid of it. Otherwise,

Speaker 8 I wouldn't be paying them to do that service in the first place.

Speaker 8 I'm off putting, I'm, I'm offloading it to a person who is an expert and I'm willing to pay what comes with that because I want to just focus on getting sex.

Speaker 12 Well, you know, Dan talked about this earlier in the week and I kind of sort of agree with him or at least float the question, is Jerry Jones the face of of the NFL?

Speaker 12 And, you know, you talk about leverage and is it more important for Jerry to maintain his spot, his perch?

Speaker 12 Or is it the reverse of what I mentioned a second ago about Cam Hayward at the tail end of his career? Jerry Jones is at the tail end of his. career at least.

Speaker 12 I mean, how desperate is he to make this work? Because if Micah Parsons is not playing for the Cowboys this year, they have no chance. I mean, I don't actually think they have much of a chance.

Speaker 12 Anyway, but I mean, if you, if you buy the idea that this team can do something, that ends with Micah Parsons sitting the season out.

Speaker 10 Dave, if we can move it along here, Travis Hunter, what do we make of him trying to play both sides of the football?

Speaker 10 I have a very hard time believing that he's going to be able to do that at the NFL level.

Speaker 12 I mean, listen, you and me,

Speaker 12 well, I'm not sure. I mean, I only spent eight years in the NFL and, you know, was fairly limited at that, Zaz.
I can't remember

Speaker 12 your time spent in pro football. But either way, we always, what gets in the way is people who throw up roadblocks.

Speaker 12 The cynics, the vapid cynics ruin a lot of stuff in society, and specifically with pro football. All we heard about for decades was like, well, you could never run the option in the NFL.

Speaker 12 I mean, you could never have a running quarterback and succeed in the NFL. The guys are too fast at that level.
And then Michael Vick made the scene and any number of other guys made the scene.

Speaker 12 And then, oh, voila, yeah, that's the way

Speaker 12 you should be trying to do things. And the thing that gets in the way now is like, well, you can't.
How can you play both sides of the ball? It's just not, it's not plausible to do that.

Speaker 12 And there is an example in Roy Green back, I don't know, talk a deep dive, Hawk.

Speaker 12 Roy Green back in the 80s started out as a DB and he and he was a good kick returner, punt returner, and then started catching passes wearing the number 25 in a time when you didn't

Speaker 12 have 25 catch them, that's right. Yeah, that's another great example of that.
There are guys, right? That's a more recent example that people can relate to, right?

Speaker 12 And Deion Sanders and Rod, you know, a lot of guys have done it. So I don't think it's as big an issue.

Speaker 12 And by the way, it's one thing if it's the Eagles or the Chiefs, and it's like this is all about getting the January in the best spot. If you're the Jacksonville Jaguars, you know, Travis Hunter,

Speaker 12 you want the sideshow of Travis Hunter.

Speaker 12 You're in SEC country.

Speaker 12 It means less pro football down there. It just means less in SEC country.

Speaker 12 Play Travis Hunter. Get some attention, right?

Speaker 12 That's got to have great value in Duval County, which isn't exactly a pro football hotbed.

Speaker 10 Hawk, my son walked into the kitchen the other day. My younger one, my 13-year-old, and he doesn't know much about Travis Hunter.
He doesn't follow college football.

Speaker 10 And he's like, well, why is he so good? You know, I said, well, he's trying to play both sides of the ball. He's going to play offense and defense.
And my son literally goes, what?

Speaker 10 When's he going to rest?

Speaker 8 Yeah, that's a great, great question. He should be the head coach of the Jaguars.
Here's how I view Travis Hunter's situation. And I'm down here in South Florida for the listeners.

Speaker 8 I'm new to this place. I'm an in-plane.
I came here about three years ago. And I am now entrenched in youth football here.
12, 11, 13-year-olds.

Speaker 8 So few percentage of them play both ways, which is different than how I grew up in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. If you're good, you stay on the field.

Speaker 8 Kickoff, kick, return, offense, defense, you grab the waters, whatever is necessary.

Speaker 8 So it is very unique at the pro level where it's never been a both sides of the ball thing in the day and age of football where everybody is kind of specialized.

Speaker 8 For Travis Hunter, do I think he has the ability to play both sides of the ball? Absolutely. That's not the question.
The question becomes,

Speaker 8 is he going to be the best receiver he possibly can be if he's playing corner? Is he going to be the best cornerback he possibly can be if he's playing wide receiver?

Speaker 8 And I don't think that's humanly possible.

Speaker 8 Not because he doesn't have ability, it's just because if you are splitting those times and because you're putting more reps out there, you're putting more wear and tear in your body, you're doubling your percentages of possibly getting hurt, and your stamina and win, no matter how great a shape you are, is diminishing because you're putting more out than what has ever been typical in the NFL.

Speaker 8 That means you're not going to have that same energy to devote to one thing.

Speaker 8 And for the Jaguars, the question becomes: okay, is 75% of Travis Hunter at receiver and 70% of him at cornerback better than 100% of the options that we have at both.

Speaker 8 And if that's the case, you play him both ways. But he will lose himself, not lose, because if that's what he's okay with, he's okay with.

Speaker 8 He won't be the best version of either one of those things by doing both.

Speaker 8 Not a bad thing, not a good thing. It's just a reality.

Speaker 12 Do you mean intellectually? I'm sorry, Zaz. Like, is it like, do you mean he can't, I'm not intellectually or

Speaker 12 attention or whatever. It's not the physical attrition.
It's both.

Speaker 8 It's both. Because, again, I can't run a gold ball in the fourth quarter as fast as I can run it in the first quarter as a receiver.

Speaker 8 Now, if I'm playing cornerback, maybe that time where I get a little slower in the fourth now becomes the third quarter.

Speaker 8 And maybe if I'm going against somebody who is a little faster or has more juice or has more stamina at that point, it's a little harder for me to get open.

Speaker 8 And eventually it will catch up intellectually as well. You spend the whole week trying to gather as much information as you can to help yourself play as fast as you can on Sunday.

Speaker 8 So how are you splitting your meetings? Are you the kind of person like Tom Brady that's going to spend 24 hours?

Speaker 8 Tom Brady is the best ever, not just because of his physical gifts, because he was willing to do more than anybody else for the amount of time he had to be the best.

Speaker 8 And that's what it's going to take from traveling.

Speaker 12 Yeah, but he sucked at receiver to prove your point. You saw him get that one chance catching a pass in the Super Bowl and

Speaker 12 he blew it. So yeah, maybe

Speaker 12 both ways isn't the best idea. Yeah,

Speaker 12 it's interesting to consider too, his style of play and how that would impact things. He is kind of like Dion, right? He's a burner.
He's not going to be banging around on either side.

Speaker 12 Even if he's a corner, he's not going to be a physical guy.

Speaker 12 He's not Rod Woodson over there, right? I mean, he's like, you can kind of, what you're talking about is go balls. Like you always hear that with Randy Moss.
Like, oh, I had to take plays off.

Speaker 12 Every play was me running 50-yard sprints. And so, obviously, I was a little gassed at some point during the game.
But, right?

Speaker 12 I mean, but he's not, at least he's not, he's not getting the crap beaten out of him playing on defense and then being asked to go play receiver, right?

Speaker 10 Football America.

Speaker 10 New episode today, Dave Damachek, Monday and Friday, every week during football season. Great job, Dave.
Thanks, man. Thai food.

Speaker 18 What does Zinn give you? Not just smoke-free nicotine satisfaction, but real freedom. Freedom to do what you love and choose your rewards.

Speaker 18 With Zin Rewards, you can redeem points for premium tech, outdoor gear, and gift cards to your favorite retailers.

Speaker 18 Find your Zen and keep finding rewards that fit your lifestyle at zen.com/slash rewards.

Speaker 18 Warning. This product contains nicotine.
Nicotine is an addictive chemical.