Hour 2: Best Stugotz Dismissal (feat. DeMaurice Smith)

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This is the Dan Labatar Show with the Stu Gats Podcast.

DeMorris Smith has written a book.

He will be joining us here in moments.

I don't believe the shipping container has recovered yet from the eruption of Mount Cody.

Everyone's shaking their heads.

They're shaking.

We were just talking during the break.

Greg Cody is still seething.

He doesn't understand why his computer wasn't immediately just brought right back to him.

And I'm like, well, well, that would have been awkward and against the show being interesting if we had just brought you your computer earlier.

But he will hold on to this for months and it's okay.

We actively enrage him as a form of content.

Another person around here who is perpetually enraged at an assortment of things going on in sports is Stugatz.

We've got a category all his own.

We've got a separate dismissals category for everyone else, but this is the Lifetime Achievement Award, the Stugatz Dismissal, which is the best from the last year.

And now the SUI nominees for best Stugats dismissal.

Stugats dismisses David Sampson.

Way too much David, by the way.

I came in here thinking Greg Cody was going to be at Greg Cody Tuesdays.

I left five, six weeks ago, and it was

Greg Cody every Tuesday.

And now we replace that with who's asking for more Sampson?

Wow.

Nobody is the answer.

Wow.

Stugats dismisses Leon Messi playing in MLS.

You can't have a hat-trick in 11 minutes.

I mean, it's impossible.

He is playing in a lesser league.

I mean, only the world's greatest soccer player could do it.

It's like doing it against children.

Well, that's.

I think you kind of gave the answer away.

Only the greatest soccer player could do that.

Do it in a real league.

Stugatz dismisses Robert Sala.

Robert Salah should be fired.

They're going to wait if he loses a couple more games.

I would have fired him today.

Here we go.

Damn, what if Belichick calls?

What do do you do?

Did you got Will Levison?

You're Woody Johnson and Bill Belichick picks up the phone today.

I would fire him today.

Thank you so bad.

Listen,

you hire this coach, Robert Sally, you get Aaron Rodgers.

You don't have to worry about the offense because Rodgers handles the offense.

You have to worry about the offense.

Not with Rodgers there.

Salah comes in, okay, and he's in charge of the defense.

And that defense that he's in charge of has given up 28-plus points in six of the last nine games.

Fire him yesterday.

Okay, very good.

Stugats dismisses Bill O'Brien's sincerity.

Bill O'Brien said he's always dreamed of being the head coach at Boston College.

You know what the B and Bill O'Brien stands for, Dan?

I got an idea.

Bullshit.

I got an idea.

Nobody, and I mean nobody in the history of football, has ever dreamed of being the head coach of Boston College.

Stugats dismisses Chris Paul.

20 years, played 82 games, huh?

No rings.

What's more impressive?

20 years, no rings, or 20 years playing 82 games?

Who cares about the fact that he played 82 games?

I mean, seriously.

Stugatz dismisses Mike Vrabel.

Big Mike Vrabel.

What has he ever done?

And seriously, I want to know the amount of coaches who have gone 13 and 21 over two seasons in the NFL because that's how Mike Vrabel finished in Tennessee.

And he was 2-3 in the postseason, and he's 0-2 in his last two postseason games.

We are talking about Mike Vrabel like the Patriots just signed Vince Lombardi to be their head coach.

What are we doing?

He is an overrated coach, and the fact that we're treating him like Hank Stram is absurd.

Sugas dismisses Shohei Otani.

And as it relates to Otani, do me a favor.

Do it in a big spot.

I'm saying, do it with nobody on.

All this guy does is produce when guys are on base.

Do it when no one's on.

No, he's right.

And do it before the game is out of reach.

Sugast dismisses leagues starting their seasons overseas.

We need to start college football in the United States.

I don't like this.

Like, Dublin has, Dan, I am serious about this, okay?

Start your season in the United States, end your season in the United States.

I don't want to hear about it.

Dublin does not deserve to get college football's opener.

Okay, they don't.

And baseball, same thing.

I don't want the season to start in China, end in the United States.

I want it to start here, end here.

Japan, wherever they're playing games.

I don't want it.

Why are we giving the start of our seasons away to different countries?

Why?

Sugas dismisses the Philadelphia Eagles' fan base.

I don't care what Philadelphia is tired of.

I'm tired of their fan base.

How does that sound?

They wanted to fire Nick Siriani like a month or two ago, and now they're all celebrating Nick Siriani.

He is the greatest coach in Eagles' history.

I said it, better than Andy Reid, better than Dick Vermeal.

This is the fourth consecutive season.

He has led this team to the playoffs.

He's the only Eagles coach in Eagles' history to do that.

First four seasons, go into the playoffs.

He was a play away from beating Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes at a Super Bowl.

I don't care about what Philadelphia fans think about anything.

And I'm talking to you, Spike Eskin, and I'm talking to you, Angelo Cataldi.

I don't care what you have to say.

You wanted to fire Nick Siriani 35 days ago, and I'm not going to allow you to celebrate Nick Siriani moving forward.

How about that?

Stu Gust dismisses Cooper Flag.

Cooper Flagg is a nice player.

Cooper Flagg is a good college basketball player, but teams tanking their NBA season to get Cooper Flag because they think he's going to fix their NBA organization, get out of here.

That guy is not good enough.

I am not impressed with Cooper Flagg, not from an NBA standpoint.

From a college standpoint, he's fine.

He's one of the best players in the country.

NBA, for me, his game does not trade.

He's the consensus number one pick.

I don't care.

I mean, number one picks have gone wrong before, Dan, and they'll go wrong again.

I mean, I would say, if you look over the course of time, that more number one picks haven't worked out than have worked out.

How about that?

Stugats dismisses Draymond Green.

That guy has no reason to be as confident as he is.

I mean, seriously.

He's got a lot of reasons.

Steph Curry's his reason.

Stugats.

Put him on the wizards, Dan.

What kind of career does Draymond Green have?

Seriously.

Draymond Green.

Right place, right time.

Fair.

Thank you.

It's not.

The rational confidence.

He ain't wrong.

He had nothing to do with the winning.

I mean.

Guys, he is wrong.

He is an unprecedented defensive player.

Like,

there has never been another basketball player who plays that defense at that size.

Now put him in Washington.

Wow.

Literally the best ever is what you're saying.

Right.

He'd be a Shanghai shark.

I mean.

Stu Gus dismisses Simone Biles.

I don't want to say this.

Like, I love Simone Biles.

I do.

I really do.

All right.

I get how great she is, the athleticism.

She's amazing.

Everything she's been through, I get it.

But she won a gold on the vault for simply being Simone Biles.

Here's what I like with the vault, Dan.

I need you to stick the landing.

I don't like any hops, okay?

And Simone Biles hopped on both her vaults, and Rebecca did.

I don't care how high you jump.

I don't care how many twists and turns you do.

You need to stick the landing.

I'm telling you, if Rebecca...

Okay, if she does the same vault as Simone Biles and Biles does Rebecca's, you know who wins?

Biles.

Sugas dismisses the Luka Doncic Anthony Davis trade.

This is a nothing trade.

It's big names.

I understand why it's news.

It's a nothing trade.

The Lakers are not winning an NBA title anytime soon.

The Mavericks are not winning an NBA title anytime soon.

In fact, I would tell you the bigger trade made yesterday in the NBA was the one that got the Spurs to Aaron Fox.

You want to know why?

That team might win all the championships soon.

This is not a trade that lands you Kareem Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

This is not getting Moses Malone if you're Dr.

J in the Sixers, the missing piece, and then they went faux, fo-fo, foe.

This is not that.

This is a trade again with two middling teams and two superstars who barely play.

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Hey, Mike.

Hey, man.

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It's been a pretty incredible summer.

We've had a parade down here.

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Don Lebatard.

I had Rachel and Emma both home, and I was in a fight with Rachel.

And I said, if you roll your eyes one more time, there's going to be a problem.

A big problem.

And she said, Really?

What are you going to do?

Stugats.

Oh, goddamn.

I mean, that's where she is.

I didn't have an answer.

This is the Don Lebatar show with the Stugats.

That is a loaded category.

It always is.

I think that's the fifth or sixth straight year that Stugatz has done that to Chris Paul.

Demorris Smith was listening to some of that.

He howled with laughter at Hank Stram.

He served 14 years as the head of the NFL Players Association, and he's written a book, Turf Wars: The Fight for the Soul of America's Game.

And look at him right now, Greg Cody.

That is a man who looks like he is relieved and radiant that he no longer has to deal with any of that bullshit.

Brother, it is so good.

Well, I got rid of two a days for the players, but I do two a days myself now.

So that's how good things are.

You're exercising twice a day, are you?

Look at that.

She's showing off the guns.

Always the guns, bro.

Just bring the guns.

Nice.

How much have you enjoyed getting out of the rat race?

How much relief is there to not have the daily headaches, the daily complaints?

Brother, you know, I didn't know how, I didn't know how beat up I was until I got done with the job.

You know, I loved it.

It was, it was almost 15 years.

Okay, loved it was way too strong.

Let's just, let's just pump the brakes on loved it.

I enjoyed it.

But yeah, not being there and not having the daily stress.

And I know it's going to come as a shock.

You know, my BFF, Roger Goodell, and I don't spend as much time together.

I miss that.

I miss that.

He can be crude and he can be cruel.

What is the worst of it when you've had a back and forth with him?

You know, Roger, you know, if you read the book, and I'm not going to spoil the ending, I think Roger does better in the book than I ever thought he would.

At times, as you know, he can just be tough and,

you know, angry and sometimes a little bit petulant.

You know, he is a smart guy, but he is just a tough guy to deal with day in, day out.

Just tough.

Is it because he and the league's owners are arrogant?

I mean, these owners, to a certain extent, are among the most petulant people I have ever met.

I mean, look, you've got guys who are owners who are destroying each other's sweets.

You got one owner pouring beer on one of his fans.

A couple of years ago, owners were flipping off each other from across the stadium.

I mean, It's everything that I would expect in a junior high school

ring, but I think it's tough for Roger because he literally works for those guys.

So at the end of the day, he literally has to deliver for some of the people who can just be petty.

I mean, look, look at what's going on in Dallas.

Can there be a more petty, petulant

display of...

of what we now know is the business of football.

I mean, I can't figure out one.

When you refer to owners as a cabal of greedy billionaires who control the league, is there an exception to that rule?

Like, who were the owners that you most respected or who were the least greedy?

The examples you all gave were tepper, by the way.

Every example you gave, it felt like all three of those things were demonstrated.

We're all tepper.

Right.

Who's the exception?

Look, Robert is, Robert Kraft is probably one of the best that I ever had to deal with because he's ruthlessly smart.

He cares about the big picture of the NFL.

Now, at the same time, don't get it twisted.

Man, Robert will press you up against the wall and

try to take it from you.

I mean, just so you know.

But, you know, of the people that I liked working with, you know,

the former Mr.

Rooney was really good to me before he passed.

Other than that, I think I'm out of...

I think I'm out of good guys.

There's not a lot of good guys, my friend.

Well, so let me ask you this question because ESPN portrayed you as an asset to the owners and you spent five pages in your book saying that Wickersham and Van Nada were owners in, they were in their hip pocket.

So who's telling the truth there?

I mean, look, I'm not going to get into a

he said, you know, she said, I'm the he said though, of course.

But I'm not going to get into that with those guys.

Here's what I didn't like about the article.

I spent over three, maybe four hours talking to Seth and Van Nada.

They write a big piece.

I think I'm in that article for almost, you know, less than one fifth of their private sources.

And the other thing I didn't like about the article is, look, I mean, you know, we've been around this track for a long time.

I was never unwilling to come out and exactly lay it on the line, go 10 toes to the line for the National Football League players.

Never a day in my life that I didn't go to the freaking line for our guys.

I had a problem with the fact that the article shrouded a bunch of billionaires in secrecy.

And if those guys wanted to lend their names to the article and meet me toe to toe, fine.

But there was only one dude in the article, for the most part, who went on the record and everybody else was stuck in the shadows.

And by the way, if that's the way that they want to write an article, more power to them.

I like Don.

I think he is a very, very good journalist.

I just didn't happen to like that piece very much.

What do you make of all the recent reporting that Pablo and Don Van Nada have done about the disarray that the union is in now that you are gone?

Miss Me Yet.

I mean, you know, this is a very, very hard job, and I never shied away from the war that has to happen between players and management.

I mean, again, I'm not talking to anybody who doesn't know the history in the National Football League.

20 years of litigation for free agency, 15 years of fighting everything from Kaepernick to Bounty to Ray Rice to DeflateGate,

fights about COVID.

When I took the job, the head of the league's concussion committee was a rheumatologist.

So at the end of the day, I mean, it's easy to kind of portray someone as maybe in the back pocket of the owners.

I'll tell you one thing.

There isn't a dude on the other side of the owners who was

unhappy to see me leave.

And I think at the end of the day, the job of the executive director at the NFL Players Association better be one where you understand that this is a group of 31 killers.

And these guys will not only make you take everything that you're entitled to, but you better be able to fight them for taking things away from you.

And if the players don't get their heads around the fact that when this CBA comes up, the league is done paying pensions.

Done.

They don't want to pay pensions anymore because literally no Fortune 550 company is paying pensions anymore.

They're done paying pensions.

The league bought the 17th game for something like $1.6 billion over 10 years.

That means the 18th game has to be worth about $2.5 billion.

If the players aren't ready to fight for $2.5 to $3 billion for that game, the league is going to bring the fight to them.

Did you consider tying the cap to not only revenue, but valuations?

It's hard, Dan, because here's the problem with valuations.

On average, a professional sports team only comes up for sale around every eight to 10 years.

I know that Forbes does a valuation every year, but that's a non-realized valuation.

So it's easy to say that we can try to tie it to valuation, but if that valuation is an asset that does not get sold or otherwise does not get traded, it's hard to tie a monetary amount to that valuation so that it actually becomes part of the revenue that goes to players.

So I get it.

I get the thoughts about valuation and everything, but it's really, really hard to do.

I mean, look how long it took for private equity to get into the business of the NFL.

But, you know, over the next few years, we're going to see how that plays out.

And I'm just making a prediction.

Private equity ownership in the National Football League is not going to benefit coaches.

It is not going to benefit the facilities.

It is not going to benefit

the people who work for those teams because private equity is interested in coming in and cutting overhead.

And coaches' salaries, employees' salaries, facilities are all overhead.

So at the end of the day, we'll see how private equity happens in the National Football League.

But if I were a group of coaches right now who don't have a union, I would be sweating bullets right now.

The name of the book is Turf Wars, The Fight for the Soul of America's Game.

When you mentioned those crises that you mentioned, what was the worst of them for you?

I think the worst was

the worst from

just a pure frame was probably somewhere between Kaepernick and Anthem.

And here's why.

It was the worst because I think we saw the players at their best and I think we saw the owners at their worst.

So, you know, if you wanted to kind of describe it, it was tough because of that tension in the middle.

I will tell you that during the Anthem, I was never prouder of our players.

Why?

Because while the country was literally throwing chairs at each other in town halls, you went to, or I went to every team facility and guys were having great conversations about race, class, politics, gender, police brutality, and it was calm.

It was absolutely calm.

And this was coming from a group of players where the average age is under 28 years old.

The flip side of that is when the league allowed this narrative to turn on the players without really stepping up to protect them until one moment, and I'll talk about it into a second, but the league allowing the narrative to turn against these players without the owners of the National Football League standing up to either protect their players or to protect their brand.

was the first time that I saw the owners knuckle under.

And that

was literally the textbook of the day until, if you remember, Roger gave a press conference

from his house.

I mean, it looked like he was in a bunker, but you know, to each his own.

But if you remember, Roger did a press conference from his house saying that

he got it wrong about Anthem and he got it wrong about the league.

And here's the deal.

I am not sure he had the owner's authority to do it.

I think he did it on his own, but that's my opinion.

He only did it, though, because Mahomes put his voice on it.

Like, didn't that happen hours after Mahomes

said something?

It may have, but remember,

it also happened way after all the players took a knee after

President Trump's statement in Huntsville, Alabama.

It was way after, you know, players unified on that weekend and everybody knelt.

So I think Patrick lending his voice was huge, but let's be real.

One player lending his voice doesn't necessarily mean that the commissioner of the National Football League decides to act.

I think they were both courageous.

It's probably the last thing, nice thing I'll say about Roger on the show because I have a limit, right?

I mean, you can't say more than two things because

then people will think that, you know, I'm a shill for the owners.

But no, I think Roger coming out and saying what he said um was a pretty brave thing how haunted are you personally that kaepernick's career was ended forever a martyr on your watch

it's a tough one um i mean look we we represented uh kaepernick we fought for him um i think that um he is he was not the last um martyr for the national football league i i don't believe that i think in the future there's going to be players who are going to stand up and pay the price But Dan, you know, John Mackey was a martyr for the National Football League as well.

Dave Megasy was a martyr for the National Football League

as well.

All those players who sued for free agency between 1972 and 1993, many of them lost their jobs.

But the reality is there is

success and the protection of civil rights

and literally anything that we want to fight for in this country, when has it come

without someone paying a sacrifice?

Put us next to you the moments that you're reading the details that Pablo Torre reported on, yes, absolutely, there was collusion, even though an arbiter ruled that there was not collusion.

That was tough to read

because,

you know, I filed the lawsuit before I left.

I wasn't there for the judgment.

I had never read it until

Pablo and Mike Florio's show.

Well, first of all, it didn't come to me as a surprise because, after all, I filed the grievance in the first place.

What hurt was

that was a moment when I would have filed another grievance on behalf of every player in the National Football League, going back as far as the statute of limitations and the facts would have allowed me.

I think at the end of the day, that collusion ruling is as significant as the collusion ruling

after

the 1992 case

of the NFL players against the National Football League.

I really think that that decision was as important as that 1992 case

of Freeman McNeil.

And if you remember, it was that case that led to the class action where Reggie White was the lead plaintiff, among others.

This is a game of leverage.

And the National Football League owners push you to the

it's a family show, right?

You can let it fly.

Let it fly.

It's fine.

The National Football League owners push you to the f ⁇ ing wall.

And that is no different than

the baseball owners in the 90s.

It's no different than the NBA owners during their strikes.

They push you to the wall.

And the only leveler, the only

thing that prevents them from running the players over is the collective strength of a union, number one,

and as history and Marvin Miller told me, your ability to wage

an unmitigating warfare campaign that usually involves litigation.

And so everybody talks about the 1994 strike for the Major League Baseball players.

And don't get me wrong, it was an incredible show of strength.

But what happened in tandem to that was three collusion rulings that led up to that.

And those collusion rulings against the Major League Baseball owners, coupled with the willingness of the players to fight,

made that union at the time the largest and strongest sports union in the country.

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Don Lebatard.

Boodball.

Football.

Football.

Football.

Football.

Foodball.

Stugats.

Foodball.

Football.

Football.

This is the Dan Lebatar Show with the Stugats.

Dee, how do you feel about these hold-ins?

I'm not a fan.

I feel like if you were there still, you wouldn't be allowing players to be going and, you know, participating, semi-participating in practice.

I feel like you're starting to lose leverage.

I feel like you, when you were in charge, you start like a colony in Antarctica and anyone's holding out, you send them there and keep them as far away from camp as possible.

Yeah, you know,

I'm not going to second guess strategy of the players because I'm not there.

And I also think it's not fair.

I mean, I get to say whatever I want while I'm working out.

And usually the heavy bag gets more of me than I get of the heavy bag.

So I'm not going to second guess strategy.

What I love, though, is that players are fighting.

And sometimes I wish that they would take the fight a little bit earlier.

to OTAs rather than waiting until training camp.

Because as you know, for most players in the National Football League, well, I would say most except a handful, very few players in the National Football League have a workout bonus, which means that these players are going to OTAs for free.

I know.

So I love the idea of the fight.

I think tactically, sometimes it would make sense to bring the fight to the National Football League a little bit earlier.

Have you seen the new Superman movie?

Wow.

Talk about left field.

Yes, I have.

Don't know where this is going, but yeah, dig it.

I dug it.

I really liked it.

Do you have any other follow-ups, Zaslo?

Is that all you had?

Crypto?

What do you make of crypto?

Look, I think any movie, superhuman, a superhero movie with a dog, I dig it, man.

I watched the old Roy Rogers shows when I was a kid, you know, and he had the dog.

I liked the John Wayne movie, The Cowboys, where he had a dog.

Any movie where there's a good guy and he's got a dog, I'm in.

Put it on the poll at Lebatard show.

Are you in on any movie where you've got a good guy and a dog?

What stopped fully guaranteed contracts during CBA negotiations?

Well, I think according to the

looking back at that ruling by the arbitrator, I mean, he ruled that the management council urged teams to not do fully guaranteed contracts.

So

at the end of the day, I mean, one of the reasons that, again, this is not a second guessing.

You asked me what I would do and you wanted to pretend that you were, you know, sitting by me when that ruling came out.

You file a ruling because collusion is the way of business for professional sports owners.

It's the way of business.

I mean, think about it.

There was collusion in baseball.

There was collusion in 1933 when the owners barred black players.

There's collusion in the 1970s to prevent

free agency.

There was collusion

in in 2011 when they all locked the players out.

The owners engage in collusion as a way of business.

And if an arbitrator gives you a ruling that suggests that the people who are running the National Football League are engaged in collusion,

I have one choice, and that's to light the fuse, right?

Have you seen the movie Weapons?

Wow, this guy's, I mean, I think the first thing you have to do is go off deep.

Yeah, just go straight to decaf, man.

Just go, just go right to it.

No, I have not seen weapons.

I do want to see weapons.

I want to see Nobody 2.

What are you most likely to watch?

What on television are you watching these days?

Wait, I have one question.

Is there a dog in Nobody 2?

I don't know.

I haven't seen Nobody 2 yet.

Just ask it.

Just ask it.

You got some movie questions for me?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

What television show are you watching right now?

Which one do you love?

I'm watching Bloodline.

Oh, nice.

Oh, good show.

That's a good show.

That's a good show.

Good show.

That's a good show.

Is that T-Light?

That's a good show.

Yeah.

Teeth Larger.

Yeah, I'm watching Family Matters.

It's a rerun.

Don't watch it.

So what was your question?

I have other questions before we get you out of here, and Greg Cody does, too.

What are your greatest regrets?

Do you regret in any way?

Labor experts said 10-year deals aren't something that you make.

So what is it that you regret?

Is there anything?

Yeah, I don't know what labor person says that.

I know it wasn't a dude who sat in the chair with me.

I mean, it's easy to sit in your, in your, you know, sit at your university and say, hey, 10-year-year deals are

not good.

I'll tell you one thing.

If we don't have a 10-year deal, how do we get through COVID?

Right?

I mean, we were able to leverage the 10-year deal, the length of the deal, to make sure that every player

got paid their full salary.

A 10-year deal makes it

that

a collective bargaining agreement is impervious to the owners coming back and taking things away from you.

I think that's one of the things.

And look, I teach all over the country, and I have healthy debates with law professors and

economists, and a lot of people who teach.

Virtually none of them do.

They all teach, and that's great.

But when you're sitting in a chair and you understand the unilateral, uninhibited power

of owners to take things away from you.

Let's play it out.

You sign a collective bargaining agreement for five years.

Two years are great.

The third year, somebody opts out.

Year four, you spend all of your money in a war for year five.

You make it through the year five deal.

Year six or year one of the new deal, now you're out of money.

Year two, nobody likes the deal anymore.

Year four, what are you?

Out of money and unwilling to fight.

So one of the things that the long-term deals gave us is the largest, most uninhibited growth of a sports league in history.

The year-over-year TV deals that really drive revenue in the National Football League, the length of those deals allowed the league to go in and absolutely crush those television deals, meaning more salary for players, but most importantly, the inability of arming the owners with leverage to take things away from you.

NFL is increasing its international stamp.

Goodell refuses to rule out a Super Bowl in London.

Smart or bad?

Man, I like London.

I mean, I'm not going to go to a Super Bowl,

but, you know, will I go the week leading up to it and do some fish and chips and maybe see a good movie or a show in London?

I'm always there for you, champion.

Always there for you.

What movie do you think?

But that's good for the league, though, to play a Super Bowl in London or not.

I mean, don't tell him, but watching a movie in London, it's the same language as watching it in the States.

Fill in the blank here for me, just quick answers.

The owner that I think is the biggest killer is Blank.

Biggest killer?

Biggest killer, Robert Craft.

The closest I came to a physical fight with a player was named Blank.

Player?

Never.

There's a strict touching, no touching of D-roll.

The angriest a player was with me, his name was Blank.

Richard Sherman.

You want to give us the backstory there?

Richard is literally one of the, if not the, but one of the smartest players that's ever served on the executive committee.

And we would have, you know, knock down, drag out fights.

And you know what?

I loved every one of it.

I did.

I loved every one of the fights we had with Richard because he's very passionate, he's very smart,

and he's willing to, again, go 10 toes to the line.

So, you know, there were times when I'm sure I made him absolutely crazy.

And I know that one of it was during COVID.

And I had to make a really quick decision about moving games because I forget what team it was that we had to move the game from Sunday to Monday or Tuesday because of an outbreak of COVID.

I had to do it

before I called the executive committee.

He was upset about it.

He was absolutely right.

but it was also a call that I had to make.

And so I'm not having any problem with Richard, but man, I'll tell you what now.

I'm never getting in a fight with NFL players.

Those guys just put you to sleep.

The owner that you came closest to getting into a physical fight with was named?

I mean, probably,

I'm not going to kid you.

I would have loved to lay a lick on Jerry Richardson when he called me a name

at a meeting.

I'm not going to speak ill of the dead, but I guess I just did.

But, you know, I mean,

you know, what are you going to do?

I mean, if somebody calls you a slur, you know, they deserve a good old country slap, right?

Yep.

He did.

What?

Hold me up.

Called me uppity at a meeting.

In front of people.

It was on his way walking out, and he has a southern draw.

So maybe, you know, first of all, you know, it's hard to understand somebody who talks with marbles in their mouth.

Okay, that's the second time I've spoken ill of the dead.

I'm not going to make it a third.

But yeah, we were at a meeting in, I think we were at the Super Bowl.

And it was a meeting where

I had arranged for Peyton Manning to come to a negotiation meeting, which was supposed to be, read the book.

It's in Turf Wars, read the book.

But we were supposed to have a meeting.

Literally, it was a meeting just to show the fans and everybody else that

we were trying to get a deal done to avoid the lockout.

And Jerry Richardson went after Peyton Manning in a way that I consider to be the most condescending conversation I've ever seen between an owner and a player.

And the kicker was

devolves.

The meeting just goes absolutely crazy.

And we get it done.

It's over.

Everybody kind of stands up and we're walking out and they're walking out.

And Jerry Richardson says what Jerry Richardson says to me as I'm walking out next to him.

When I turn my back to get back to the table, the players are absolutely apoplectic.

Apoplectic.

And I'm thinking, oh man, these guys are really coming to the defense of D, you know, that he was disrespecting the meeting.

Oh, no.

They were all apoplectic because Jerry Richardson was mad at Peyton Manning.

So nobody gave a damn about D.

Smith.

Every player was pissed off that

they had disrespected the, you know, what someone considered the GOAT.

Turf Wars, the fight for the soul of America's game.

Good seeing you, DeMorris.

Thank you for making the time for us.

Thank you, buddy.

Always a pleasure.

Likewise, Greg, are you done simmering?

Are you in a better place?

Because I have felt the heat off of you throughout the entirety of the last hour.

Happy as a clam.

Don't worry about me.

Look at my big smiling face.

Clam, you know it.

He knows I'm happy.

Clam, you know it?

Clam, you know it is what you offered us there.

Is it true?

Yeah.

Exactly.

I think my favorite part of that was watching DeMorris' face as Stugats dismiss people at the start of this.

The Hank Stram reference.

I think it was...

You watched Superman?

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