The Big Suey: The Pilloried Pioneer (feat. Undersized Nickel, Domonique Foxworth)

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Welcome to the Big Sue,

presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? It's a podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Lebetard podcast.
I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that.

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's prize if they're just there.
That hasn't happened to you guys.

I've done it. And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face, and the habitual liar.

There appear to be some things happening around here that are turning against Pablo Torre.

And I'm sorry to say that Dominique Foxworth has now arrived armed with I stand with Nick Wright is what he texted me before we started this segment.

He was also doing something and I didn't realize it until he started doing it.

He also has a great voice that sort of makes me feel a little bit impotent when he really says Bavacwa. When he goes and gets the Bavacqua, put it on the poll at Lebatard show.

Is it extra fun to say the name Bavacwa? Because he did it

in a fashion that made me feel he was going for sensual effortlessly.

Go ahead and hit the people with your Bavacwa. Bavacwa.

It's just a great word. It's stronger.
It's a great word. It's stronger than my Bavacqua.

I have so much stuff to talk about with you guys, but before we get to all of that, I want to start with the first thing is...

Hello, Valerie. And from there, I'd like to say what you guys are doing here is incredibly impressive.

Like all jokes aside, the two different locations, the third location, I did a live show after games on Sunday from a few different locations. It's so hard.

I know we give all the tech people a hard time and make fun of them all the time, but this is really kind of cool and impressive.

Thank you for saying so, Dominique, because I am proud and I mentioned this earlier in the week, moved by the fact that we get to celebrate in New York the holiday party here this week as part of everything that we're doing that has Pablo coming under an avalanche of criticism today.

Wozni Lambry is tweeting. I don't know what your thoughts are.

Pablo.

He's a journalist, yes.

Waz. Jazine is laughing a knowing laugh.
I don't know.

I once did.

Can I...

I love Woz. Woz and I have done any number of currently now legal drugs together.

He's great.

He's great. That is snitch.
It's legal. That's snitch.
What's that? Just say we're we're friends. We hung out.
No, no, no, because

the context for our friendship is intimate. It is intimate.
You can't snitch on an... That's not an...
You're describing intimate. I think I'm breaking the news.

I don't think I'm breaking the news that Woz... I mean,

forgive me. Don't bring Amin into it.

Amin and Woz, and I go back how many times I'm going to be able to do it. How did Amin get dragged into this? You guys don't know Woz, and Amin knows Woz more than anybody.
And I know Waz. I know Woz.

I know Waz incredibly well. Not have you ever smoked with him? Have you done legal drugs with him?

There's

Wozni Lambry tweets the following: quote: I just don't think the job of investigative reporting is some impossible feat. I think getting big media companies to pay for it is impossible.

I watch every episode of Pablo's show, and he deserves all the glory he's gotten for making it a success.

But the idea somebody as talented as Nick couldn't be really good at the job of investigative reporter if he dedicated himself to it just doesn't pass the smell test. Look, I love Was.

I don't want to do the thing where I just say, like, you've never done it. And then you say, I did it once.
And then I say, I apologize.

Because that's happened and it's happening on Twitter still today with Nick. My thing with all of this is, Dan,

you make me be so unlikable. You do.
You make me be so unlikable.

The job of investigative reporter is a job that largely takes place in ways that no one can see. That's kind of the definition of it.

And so I'm not saying that Nick or Woz or Dominique wouldn't be great at it if that's what you want to do, if that's what we're doing now. Who's hypothetically good at this?

What I'm merely saying is that there are skills like lawyer, Dominique Holdan. Like Nick would be an amazing lawyer.
And I have said that to him. And I will say that for anyone to hear.

Journalist and lawyer are not the same job. And I will explain this very briefly.

A lawyer will take a case that they know isn't true. That's the job.

Argue to the best of your ability in defense or in prosecution of something that you have agreed to do because that is what your job is.

A journalist is unfortunately constrained by this annoying thing called fact-checking.

And so the reason I'm needling Nick on Twitter and the reason why I am needling everybody who brings this up and the reason why Dominique's putting his face in his hand is because it's hard to be the guy who's like, you got to get this stuff right and be challenged.

And if you don't know what that's like all of the time, it's easy to say, oh, I could do that. It's a different thing to actually do it under threat of legal action perpetually.

Now, imagine if Pablo said what he just said. in a voice that wasn't annoying.
Yeah, I mean, Dan does a really good job of making people seem annoying.

I think that I would say this, Pablo, is like, I feel like there's a lot of bit happening and then we get really close to the truth. And I can feel that you are very genuine in what you're saying.

I'll give you some honest advice as a friend on or off the show is that you said a lot of the work that goes into it goes unseen.

I think that's what makes you unlikable, is that you want people to see it.

And maybe this is the future of journalism, where the journalist becomes the celebrity and the journalist has a show named after themselves and pounds their chest and says, look at what I did.

It's so hard. No one else can do this.
But I think that part of what is we all love or the people who do love and appreciate journalism is the story is about the truth.

The story is not about the person who has found the truth. And maybe again, this is me being an old man in the future of being a good journalist.

And in order to get the funding and the credibility, if we're losing faith in old institutions, that you build up that reputation around an individual who people will trust and put money into.

But don't pretend, like, you can't put yourself out there as a pioneer and pretend as if pioneers aren't going to get pilloried.

Like that's the thing that's confusing to me is we all know this to be the case. And I don't know.
Like I suspect I'm someone who is supremely confident and I believe I can do just about everything.

And I suspect that Nick Wright is the same way. But I don't think that I could do investigative journalism because I don't like talking to people that damn much.
So what you're doing is great work.

It's hard to do. Maybe Nick could do it.
Maybe Nook can't. The fact that we're dwelling on it is irrelevant.
The fact that you are like, look, I did this. Give me an award.

I think that's what makes you kind of hatable, honestly. And I love you.
I don't hate you. I recognize the work is good.

And I've given a justification for why it's a reason why you have to go about it in this new media way.

But it's not going to be enjoyed because people are going to look at it and be like, hey, are you a journalist or are you a celebrity? And if you want to be both, maybe that's the future of it.

I don't know. But we can go back to doing show and bits, but that's my honest assessment of what's happening.
Dominique, you are two years younger than Phillip Rivers. How is this going to go?

Poorly, I think. I don't know, man.
Like, there's no way to argue that this could go.

I think that.

We see Aaron Rodgers right now who has not taken an extended break. We see how he wants to avoid getting hit.
I assume the same thing will happen for Phillip Rivers. It's going to be really hard.

And he's right. His athletics has never been it.
He's never had a super strong arm.

If there's a quarterback who could produce from a diminished capacity, maybe it's someone like him who's a smart player and never really relied on rocket arm strength. However,

getting off the couch, man, y'all know how hard is it, how hard it is.

Any of you who've been on the sideline of a college football game, a high-level high school football game, recognize that shit is fast.

And I don't think you can get off the couch and just start cooking like that. So we'll see.
I don't think it's going to go all that well.

And his career ended not because he was tired of playing, because people was tired of paying him to play. So I'm guessing it's not going to go all that well.

From the very start, like I couldn't believe that I'm reading headlines that he might go this Sunday. Like that seems crazy to me.

You can't go without playing an NFL game for five years and then started quarterback. That practice speed better be fat.

Like they got to go trading camp level practice speed to get him into any shape to do this.

I don't know a scenario. I think that you can scheme up some plays that'll work well for him.

I wonder how honest, in an honest moment, how the rest of the locker ros about this, because I would be concerned, but I guess they're also in desperation mode.

I look at a bunch of these teams right now and a lot of them have similar records, but feel very differently. I'm guessing the Colts who have a pretty strong record.

Their fan base and their team probably feels pretty terrible because now they're so desperate that I think honestly, some of those players are probably pretty excited excited to have Phillip Rivers there no matter how old he is because there it represents like some level of hope that I don't know that they had a couple weeks ago or a week ago and even with Daniel Jones before he got hurt they were headed in the wrong direction so it probably does represent a spark of hope that I think we all hope isn't extinguished immediately upon Phillip Rivers taking the first snap and having enormous men trying to kill it I know Phillip Rivers doesn't think he leaned on his athleticism when he was playing all that much because he wasn't this great gifted athlete.

i think he's about to find out how much athleticism he had i don't think you can afford to lose a half step even if you only had a half step dominique

i think you could argue that it's more important if you only had a half step to hold on to that half step i think that there are so many other things in the game that you can rely on if you if you had a bunch of traits that were beneficial you could find one of those other traits to rely on i think philip rivers like ability to read defenses, honestly, I think the thing that Phillip Rivers had that was special was not only his size, but like that fire and intensity, which is hard to measure.

And I don't know how that translates now if your body can't do the same, same things that it once did. And so I think the accuracy is probably going to be a little bit off.

The speed's going to be a little bit off. And the speed, we don't pay as much attention to the speed of like evolution of defenses as we do offenses because defense is a little bit more complicated.

It's not on the screen. It's not as exciting.
But the defenses that Philip Rivers is going to face now are very different from the defenses that he saw pre-pandemic or during the pandemic.

So I'm guessing that, yeah, the offensive plays and the system, he's going to understand that it's not going to be as difficult.

But the things that he's going to see are not going to be things that he saw back then. Defenses change so fast.
And from team to team, you're going to see drastically different looks.

It's a lot harder. So like, even if he was just just as good as he was at the time when he retired, it's going to be a slightly different game.
So I'm rooting for him. I'm an old guy.

He's older than me, but I'm an old guy. Us old guys want these old guys to play well.
But I ain't going to lie to myself. It would be a stunner if Phillip Rivers comes out there and is.

better than Riley Leonard. Put it on the poll, Playsette Lebatard show.
Do old guys root for old guys in sports? You brought up fire and intensity. I will tell you, I've been bitterly cold all week.

So cold. Put this on the poll poll as well.

Do you get, does your skin get itchy past a certain point in cold? Because my skin is itchy from the cold inside or outdoors.

But when you bring up fire and intensity, I have felt for the last five minutes in this studio the first warmth I have felt my entire time in New York. And it's because, no, it's not positive warmth.

It's because of how Pablo is steaming at the fact that Mike Ryan was so done with this journalism conversation. Riley Leonard.
That he talked about

Philip Rivers at 44 years old to get off of the subject that uh that pablo i don't think is done with as he's taking a beating from everyone including

gotta be done while doing what while doing no while doing the work that's so important that i also want the work that he's doing seen the weird thing that's happening though is the work is getting universal praise dan pablo that's no

dan dan pablo stop dan go ahead danique i'm not letting you off the hook dan you're doing this.

If you, the problem that I'm laying out for Pablo is he can't be the one celebrating how hard his work is or how great he is or how important it is or how noble it is, like this, or how much he wants everyone else to do this.

Like, no one ever is made to look good by being the one celebrating themselves. So, Pablo, let me finish.
I'm on your side right now.

So, Dan, if you care about this, you need to be the one fighting the fight for Pablo. Someone else needs to be one fighting to fight for Pablo.

You'll never win if you're out there telling everyone they're not as good as me. I'm doing such noble work.
I wish people would do what I'm doing. Pablo, you can't win that fight.

Nobody is that charismatic or likable to be able to trumpet how impressive and great and grandiose they are and still be likable. Dan wants it to happen, but he wants you to do it.
Dan, you do it.

Tell us how great Pablo is. Or Pablo could do it.
with a cooler voice. Yeah.
Just saying.

Yeah, I still don't think it's going to work. I don't know.
Mob Deep, though, that shirt is. what?

But is this better? Is this better if I talk like this? No, that's worse. That's worse.
Stop doing it. Okay, very good.

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Don Lebatard. I took my son to the barbershop to get a haircut, and my man gave out some limp dap.

Oh, no.

Damn, damn, damn. Stugats.
I disowned him. I threw him right under the bus.
I was like, whose kid is that out here dishing out limp dap? This is the Don Lebatar show with the Stugats.

Listen,

the thing about Dominique's totally. Yes, give it to me.

Jeremy Toshi has officially born. I hate this show.

Wow.

Congratulations. Hey.
I'm good at journalism, too, Bablo. Despite the voice, huh? I hate this show.

I hate that my fake voice sounded like Jeremy's modulated voice.

Dominique's right.

He's right about that. He's totally right about that.
Don't do it. You're going to say however and then start saying words.
However,

the thing that he said before is wrong.

The thing he said before is wrong. Like, why am I arguing with people? It's because the only way

to cut through

an internet. The Chicago White Sox have landed the number one pick in the 2026 MLB draft.
The Tampa Bay Rays, Dan's beloved Rays, will have the second pick. Pablo Pablo couldn't even congratulate you.

That was sickening. The Black Pope will be real happy.
Y'all know the Pope is black, right?

Do you know

how

poorly you stand on the wrong side of an argument when Dominique Foxworth is on this show in the middle of the day telling everyone in America that people shouldn't celebrate themselves?

The fact that a cornerback is telling me that too much celebrating is going to be a bad thing for your career is

just too much it's the type of celebrating that you're doing Pablo and I get it this is okay so this is

number one dan making me comfort my own shit is deeply unlikable totally agree and also

hold up before you go before you go

saying

anything because I'm trying to help you Pablo me attacking you is going to help you you don't realize this it's like you don't understand how people work it's like you've been in the media business business for all this time and don't realize have you ever watched a tv show a movie like anything any sort of entertainment you are digging your hole deeper and deeper one thing that you should never do is say you know what you can't do what i do like

but that was besides the fact that nick and i were both saying that to each other that aside right point of why am i the person who puts his name in his show why am i out here arguing with mark cubin and bill simmons and nick right and now everybody is because that is the only way to cut through because no one gives a shit about journalism.

It is a strategy. I hate to break the bit for a second.
That's why I do it. I get it, Papa.

I get it. But then don't complain about nobody likes me.

They should respect. Like, that's the part.
That's the, but the part, the part, the part of I can argue with people, but I have to lose every argument is not a great strategy either, Dominique.

So I don't know how to square that circle. Okay, I got it.
I got it. I got it.
Okay, what you got? No, just say your point concisely, real quick, do it.

I need to draw attention to the work by being out there talking about it with my own voice. I didn't get it, Pablo.
You nailed that, man. I think we've all been wrong.
Appreciate you, brother.

Zaszlo has yawned three times. Zaszlo has yawned three.
Zaszlo, who's also a journalist,

we've established that officially. What up, hey? He's a judge.
Zaszlo, let's get a ruling. Yo, tired of hearing everybody say I got big old heads.
Big old head, my boy.

Let's get a ruling from you, Zaslow. Can we get the imaging, please, on Zaszlo's? Nobody's gonna let that slide.
A ruling

on whether or not the honorable Jonathan Zaszlo, now presiding with prejudice.

I'd like to get a ruling on whether Zaszlo believes he could do what Pablo does, because Zaszlo is also a journalist. Let me tell you something.
I'm a journalist, but I'm like...

I'm like low-level journalists, all right? I'm a journalist of the things that I want to get to the bottom of. Pablo is digging deep into stuff that I don't even understand.

And I lose my train of thought and I cannot do what Pablo does. I got to admit.

Whoa. So what's a ruling? That also felt pretty good.
So my ruling is, my rule is the question whether or not I can do what Pablo does?

Yes.

No.

With prejudice. Wow.

I cannot. Thank you, Sam.
And by the way, I'll also add, I'll also add, Nick Wright absolutely cannot do what Pablo does either.

I mean, you saw the way I dominate him again yesterday when we were talking about LeBron. That was embarrassing.
Sorry, Nick.

So you may have heard underneath all of that, Pablo whimper, why can't I talk? And Roy, that will allow you to play that sound again.

I don't know. Why can't you talk? Why is that the way that you talk when you're trying to make the argument on behalf of journalists?

I don't think I've had a better year professionally in my life or felt dumber at the same time.

There is a lot of stuff to talk about in sports and in football with Dominique. And I just

want to talk carefully with the details we have, not the details the internet has, the details that we have that are verifiable on Michigan's entire situation. Okay.

I got in trouble a long time ago at ESPN because, and this would have been, I'm going to say 20 years ago,

I said that generally speaking in football, and this was quantifiable at the time, all of a sudden, when championships were being won at college football programs, there were always sirens very near the huddle, arrests very near the huddle.

There was a correlation between Colorado winning the national championship in 1990 and Sports Illustrated reporting that like a third of their roster had been arrested.

Now Michigan has an assortment of junk around its program and it's all administrator based.

It's not the players that are getting in trouble. It's an assortment of the people in charge.
And so what are you comfortable deducing?

from the Sharon Moore situation in Michigan, given the details that we have. He has been fired for an inappropriate relationship with a staffer.
That's what the university released.

And shortly thereafter, he was in custody for an alleged assault. What's fair to discuss here with the information we have now, Dominique? Right.

I appreciate that setup because it's not much that we can say about that situation.

Now, the stuff is out there and nothing I can say is more interesting than the speculation that people are currently reading on the internet.

But what struck me is having been around football, and it's not just football, having been around like any professional setting, my guess is that there are a lot of coaches out there that are pretty nervous right now.

It's something about being in the workplace with people that it's going to happen. These things will happen.

The fact that it's a public position is going to get a bunch of attention and that it like escalated into a more and more salacious version of the story.

And I think this is funny dovetailing off of the journalism conversation is because like this is part of the reason why like real journalism is important because there's so much speculation out there about what's happening and it's so damaging to the people that are not even directly involved, but tangentially involved.

And of course, it's damaging to the people that are involved, especially like the staffer whose name is in it, the kids who may be involved, the wife that's in it.

Like this is all just stuff that we do on the internet in an age where I know to go back into a different conversation from a couple of days ago, where the AI does so many more things that it just feels like nothing feels true.

And so if there is someone out there or a group of people who have built up the credibility that we can trust what they are saying, like that holds value.

It used to be at one point that the check mark on Twitter meant something. It meant nothing else anymore.
And one thing that you can't really fake is a person's identity.

And if there's someone that has put in the work and done the hours and taken the time away from their family to build up a track record of credible reporting inside sports, like that's hugely valuable.

And it's funny because I would say in a time like today, it's a reminder how important that journalism is.

But like, honestly, every single day, every week, there's a new reason why the journalism is valuable. We can go back to the college football playoffs.

I would love if there were somebody who was available and that was steeped in college football, but didn't have their interests conflicted by not wanting to piss people off or not wanting to upset the TV partner or not wanting to lose their access, but would be willing to burn relationships to tell us what actually is discussed behind those closed doors.

Like

all of sports and all of professional life needs that type of journalism. Michigan's got recruiting violations, illegal scouting scandal.

They got Matt Weiss, one of the co-offensive coordinators, indicted for almost 10 years of downloading pictures of female athletes.

And now this, how many do I have to put in front of you when I look at the leadership at Michigan and say, my God, rotten to the core?

How many of these scandals do I have to give you before you say Michigan sold its soul for that championship yeah I mean

that so that's an interesting question because I'm not sure that and this is again like we don't know what's going on and you don't want to incriminate any institutions that are not currently incriminated but it's hard to imagine that Michigan is operating in a way that is so different from every all of the rest of their peers.

I don't know.

It always surprises me when there's a team or a company or someone who is having disproportionate success. And Michigan's not even the most successful program in the country.

Like that changes from time to time.

The sloppiness that is involved in what's happened around Michigan and all the things, like not just including this most recent situation, like all of that sloppiness does not speak to me, does not suggest to me that they are the most well-run and effective organization.

And so, I'm sure that there are issues at a bunch of different places.

There's no way to completely clean all of this stuff up, especially when the incentives lie in such a way that the teams, the people, at least with the most power, are also the people who have the highest incentive to like manipulate this process.

And that's like why a counterbalance is needed. And

I mean, wait a minute. We'll get the union talk and all other things that I think are important.

When you say, though, I'm sure there are a lot of issues at a lot of other programs, I was really stunned to hear the number.

Seven arrested staffers since

from the Harbaugh regime? Like seven? That's a crazy number. Yeah, seven.
Seven arrested staffers. Seven staffers have been arrested since the hiring of Jim Harbaugh.

I believe four have been banned for rules violations since the hiring of Jim Harbaugh.

There's a lot of online conjecture that you have to be responsible about, but there were reputation, turned out to be reputable reporters, at least on this beat, that have been alluding to this for months.

And this crescendo for Sharon Moore may not actually be that. It could be a tip of the iceberg type of story, given Michigan's history here.

Yeah, there's...

Sorry, go ahead, Baba.

No, Dominique, I was just going to say that when you think about the power and the money behind Michigan, it's just worth pointing out that it is arguably the greatest in sports because one of their biggest boosters is Larry Ellison, who's the founder of Oracle, who's literally currently the richest man in the world who's bidding for Netflix.

Like the question of like who's involved in the story of Michigan, who's funding it. I have no idea if Larry Ellison knows anything.

All I'm saying is that we are dealing with the extreme end, the deepest part of the pool, Dominique, when it comes to where money is coming from and that part of the story too.

But I'm not talking, seven staffers doesn't include Connor Stallions. He wasn't arrested for anything, was he? Or Alex Hude, who I don't believe was arrested either.
But was this?

What craziness is that, Dominique? You don't get staffers in mass arrested when a guy was only since Harbaugh was hired. That wasn't that long ago.

I would just say that traditionally, what I like to do in any situation is look at the incentives. And like, the incentives don't lie with following these rules.

And there aren't really great regulatory bodies. And not just the rules inside the game, but the laws outside the game.

Also, like, it seems like it comes down to in college sports, winning in most sports. Winning and success trumps just about everything else.

And like, I certainly don't want to to suggest that things would be different if

Moore was more successful. But it seems to me that these things start to fall apart when

around teams that are not having the success that they are expected to have. And so like, I'm not surprised when these things come out.

And I don't think any of us are like as shocking as this news was last night, suggesting to you that a football coach has a relationship with someone who works on in the staff. Like,

I don't know, maybe this is just because I've been around football my whole life. That's not surprising to me.

My guess is that it's not shocking to you either if I told you that a coach of a power program had a relationship with someone on the staff. That's not the shocking part.

And then all these individual things, like I can't, we can go back to like Penn State, like to suggest that someone is downloading photographs, like that's not surprising.

People do terrible things. And when you are in a successful program, it tends to be the case that that you get the protection that you want until you no longer have that success.

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Don Lebatard. It sounds to me like everybody could use a hug because a hug is always the right size.
Stugats. All I have put in my body today

is three cups of coffee and an entire cup of coffee.

Don't let him fool you. He said in the break that he's jittery.
This is the Don Lebatar Show with the Stugats.

When you think of college sports power getting in trouble for this kind kind of thing, I put in front of you, Ime Odoka, Mike Price, Mel Tucker, Hugh Frees, Rick Petino, Bobby Petrino.

Which is the one that is the most memorable of the crimes of morality? Is it Petrino? Is it Petino?

One of my favorites was Sports Illustrated reporting some of the details. This is Sports Illustrated reporting on Mike Price.
Lost the Alabama job. Pretty good job to have.

Lost the Alabama job before coaching a game. And Sports Illustrated reported that

by talking to one of the women involved in the sexual escapade, that the women were saying roll-tied, and Mike Price was shouting, oh, it's Roland.

That's Sports Illustrated. That's not internet conjecture.
That's a place where Pablo, who loves journalism, did fact-checking. That's where Pablo's career started.
That is not a made-up story.

Those are facts. Maybe it's because I'm a longtime listener of this show, but Patino and Petrino stand out in my mind because those are two things that you guys never let die.

So they seem incredibly important. Had you chosen to reiterate the roll tie thing over a decade plus, maybe I would have known and remembered that and had that more close to my memory.

But I mean, that picture of you dressed up like Bobby Petrino is great. And all the jokes that you guys made about Patino,

his

60 seconds of hell like that 15 15

oh 15

oh what a selfish selfish person that's i'm a petino guy on that i mean i i i when i was at sports illustrated that was a story i reported um it's crazy in ways that i think people don't appreciate it's crazy in ways that they don't get because that woman uh karen cipher of the 15 seconds story um she ended up marrying rick petino's right-hand man

and she was part of the program. Popular.

You're with Petino on that one?

Yeah. You did say that.
You didn't say I vote for Patino here. You said I'm with Patino on 15 seconds.
I think that's why Dominique's head is in his hands. Yeah.

That's why. That and also he said a story I reported when I was at Sports.
There it is.

That's the one. You guys,

I like that. I like that, actually.

Glazed eyes completely. I was down with it.
I visited Karen Cipher's house. I like interviewed her in her house.
I went to the courtroom.

Yeah.

Eme Odoka needs to get some

attention here because they immediately won the championship. Like that.
These are good jobs. These are good careers.
Emeo Doka actually survived it and ends up being fine.

But the job that he gave up, I'm comfortable saying that Eme Odotka, that scandal cost him a championship. None of the others did.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it...
It didn't cost him a career, though. So

given what's happened in Michigan, I don't imagine that

Moore is going to get another opportunity to be a coach of any kind anywhere. Like he's let alone a head coach from your dream job.
So like that's

the part there that he's even more like,

I guess, problematic or damaging or penalizing and painful.

So like, yeah, having not been there for the championship that came later is one thing for a team that it seemed like your personality really helped to improve and develop and mature into a championship.

Like that hurts, but it's different. You go somewhere else.
His career goes on. He's still a very coveted and respected coach.

He's going to win a championship at some point or have decades to possibly do that.

Moore going to have to find a new career. Like this,

I don't know.

No one's going to let him in their building, I think, and hope that he represents their program.

Maybe he can start as a position coach at a low-level team and work his way back up, but his career is forever altered. Bobby Petrino, nah, not so much.
Take a little break. Come on back.

Mike, can you help me with some timeline stuff here so that I could be maximum responsible on what Michigan knew and when Michigan knew it? Because to me,

it felt suspicious just getting information the way everyone else got it, which is the first news is more fired, inappropriate relationship with a staffer

that is

sent out by the university. And then hours later,

the news, he's in custody. He's been arrested.
I jumped to the conclusion that Michigan did that preventatively. They're saying this is the part that we know about.
We're getting out of this entirely.

They had to know that.

that an arrest was coming if it happened a couple if that announcement came a couple of hours before the actual in-customer i i think i think you're speculating there uh internet conjectures suggests that this stuff started breaking and that stuff was like closely aligned i i don't think what what you alluded to there though sensical actually played out that way but there are reporters out there and people may not be thrilled with how they go about this because it is coded in some like michigan state homerism but there was a guy out there by the name of Justin Spiro that for months was alluding to this.

And if you do some internet sleuthing, you can see amongst Ohio state fans, amongst Michigan state fans, this was something that was gossiped about for a long time.

And while irresponsible, with the benefit of hindsight, these people knew something. And I guess now the real digging will be done on what did Michigan know?

Because that's going to be important, especially when you apply their previous history on the matter. Why is it important?

Because if Michigan engaged in any sort of cover-up, you could see how that would be especially problematic for that program, given the recent scrutiny.

Dominique, are you okay with the idea of America at large just saying of Michigan probably for the first time ever a dirty program? I mean,

sure. Go ahead.
I don't have any... I have no reason to defend Michigan.
I guess my...

My problem with having this Michigan-focused conversation is that I don't know that program well enough to say anything definitive.

And I tend to believe that people in general aren't very different from place to place, from organization to organization.

Of course, there are some extremes in this case, but it does feel like this attention is going here. And also like the point that I brought up earlier, and again, maybe it's,

maybe they are more in leadership there. Maybe they are more responsible than other places.

But what it's always come down to in my experience is like, if your talent is there and success is there, we find ways to work around whatever issues you may have. And it's an unfortunate reality.

And maybe I'm jaded. I'd hope to come back from this at some point and

have more faith in any of our institutions, honestly. But that tends to be the case, especially in sports.

We've turned and looked the other way on so many things because people have had success until you can no longer do it anymore. And maybe that's the case.

It is a sad reality, Dominique, that if he beats Ohio State, maybe this never sees the light of day. If they're 15-0 again,

I don't know that it would be an immediate firing.

Maybe they would have their hand forced eventually but the conversation would take a lot longer like i what do you think the chat gpt data was from coaches all across america and all level of sport trying to find out if they could get fired for this sort of thing was

i can't do that

a number of questions before we get out of here so rapid fire yes or no jalen hurts will be the eagles quarterback next year Yes. AFC this year is going to be won by blank.
Bill.

Cam Newton says he was offended the Colts signed Phillip rivers before even calling him saying it's a slap in my face was it yes did derrick henry indeed knock out malik harrison with his elbow even to even though malik harrison was wearing a helmet yes how do you did you know that someone could be knocked out by another person's elbow even though they're wearing a helmet Yes, I've known it.

I've seen it happen before, but we, I heard earlier in the show, you were talking about cold and pain.

And I was thinking about how the pain threshold is to me at least at a certain point then everything over that hurts and there's only been two times in my career where i had a level of pain that I wanted to report on.

I wanted someone else to know about. One was trying to tackle Steven Jackson with just one arm.
I threw my arm into his legs and it felt like a lawnmower ran over my arm. And the other time was when

Eddie Royal, blind side blocked me in the chest and I got up and coughed up blood, missed one play and came back in. Those are the only times in my football playing career.

Oh, also when I was like 14 years old in the championship game,

I got hit and like one eye got stuck and I couldn't move it for a couple of seconds. It was like I was cross-eye for a couple seconds, blink, blink, blink, straighten it up, 80-yard touchdown.

Steven Jackson ran so hard for two and a half years. That description by you was great.
It was like sticking to my arm in a lawnmower that I just put my hand between myself.

Comedy's better at bragging than this.

It's not on bragging. How is it a brag?

So I

was a nickel at that point and I played like I was a smaller guy, but I was physical. I wasn't scared to tackle.
I had a game in Denver where I was hyperventilating after the game.

And I think I had like nine or ten tackles. And it's because they had their game plan was obviously this undersized nickel.
We're going to run at him all game, but I made the tackles.

But in that situation, you have a blocker on you try to shed the blocker and all you have is one arm so you throw it out there and for most people yeah they can't run through an arm it's going to trip them up man didn't even notice that thing was there and i my arm just kind of

i pulled that thing out so fast it felt like hell undersized nickel watch it damn watch it see you later dominique good seeing you i just was clarifying it was unclear you didn't speak clearly and you i just wanted to i can

i can say it whatever whatever i want to say i can say you're lucky i might end this show See you later, Dominique. The Dominique Fox works.
All right, be careful. You in the mean.

Take care of yourself. All right, man.

Be safe, fellas. See you later.
See you later. Never been undersized.