Hour 1: Atop Dan Le Batard's Ivory Tower

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This is the Dan Levator show with

the Stugatz Podcast.

An emotional Amin keeps talking

during the break about

his and our beloved Brian

Windhorse, inaugural

member of the Jonathan

Zaslow Tool Hall of Fame. Amin is friends with Brian.
I've never heard him say it out loud. I like Brian Windhorst, and I know him a little bit.
I cannot call myself a friend of Brian Windhorst, but I have admired the work that he has done for a long time. And your defense of Brian Windhorst during the break, what were you getting mad about while you were staring at your phone? No, it's just the number of people who seem to think that Brian went to high school with LeBron, like he was off the school paper covering LeBron.
And like, no, Brian Windhorst is like my age. We're much older than LeBron.
Brian Windhorst was out of college and a grown man working in newspapers when LeBron was first coming up as a phenom. As many local newspapers, I know people don't read newspapers anymore, but once upon a time, kids, newspapers had writers that were assigned beats.
The beat was the thing that you covered. And some people covered the local NFL team, and some people covered the local hockey team.

But the entry level in the sports department, Dan, was you were covered what?

What would you cover?

Not for you, but in general, a newspaper journalist.

I mean, you could cover high school.

High school.

You cover high school.

So Brian worked for the Akron Beacon Journal, I believe, and he was covering high school.

I wonder who was playing high school sports who was really good in Akron at that time.

Not really good for Akron.

Not really good for Northeast Ohio.

Not really good for Ohio.

Good nationally.

So, of course, he covers LeBron James, right?

And then LeBron gets drafted.

And so what does the Akron Beacon Journal do? Hey, the most impactful high school prospect ever, perhaps, is going to the local team. Hey, guess what beat you're on now, Brian Winters? The Cazby.
But what are you defending him against? Because our show can thank its economy to LeBron James. The entirety of our show, given what South Florida sports has been for 20 years and given what ESPN built for us specifically upon LeBron's arrival in Miami, what are you objecting to that people have been telling? Brian Windhorst is exceptional at his job, hard stop.
Brian Windhorst is an incredibly hard worker, hard stop. And Brian Windhor horse is also disliked because people simply think that he has been at the economy of lebron since he was young which he has been it has been very profitable for a lot of people to be around the economy of lebron brian wind horse exists in this weird space where half the people hate him because oh yeah you hate lebron you're always hating on lebron and the other half of the people hate him like you're always in the tank for your guy lebron and when the populace hates you for two completely polar opposite reasons you know what that means sounds like you're pretty fair and the people who love lebron are mad when he doesn't say lebron glazy type stuff and the people who hate leBron hate when he said when he's fair and he says good things about LeBron sounds like he's a fair guy but what I am objecting to to answer your question there's three major points of ignorance that seem to get repeated a lot as I'm seeing all of this right number one is that Brian like went to high school with LeBron that somehow like and has been kind of just mooching off theing off the cool kid that went to high school with me, right? Which isn't the case.
He is a journalist, right? He's covered the dude for longer than anyone else, continuously, right? Number two is that Brian Winterhurst wrote four books about LeBron. That's weird.
Like he's a stalker or something. LeBron is one of the most public figures who draws a lot of attention and has lived a lot of lives, right? In the time he's been in public space.
And so, yeah, there's a lot of material to be written about that. And the guy who has covered him longer than anyone else, of course, would be that, right? Number three, and this one is the dumbest, perhaps, right? Is that somehow this is Brian's fault.
Like Brian walks around telling people that he's friends with LeBron. I said on threads, I've never seen him, heard him insinuate, even lightly, even gently.

And the response is, well, yeah, he's always talking about he knows what LeBron's thinking.

Ipso facto, that's presenting on his friends.

And I'm like, do y'all not know how journalism works?

Are we at a point where people have a fundamental misunderstanding?

Yes, yes, yes.

Like the idea that, oh, the guy who's covered this guy for damn near 25 years might know something that the rest of you don't. You think that means he's his friend or he's presenting as his friend? Or a stalker.
Or a stalker. It's crazy.
And it's like ignorance that is repeated. And it's not one person or two people.
It's lots of people people but when you say ignorance is repeated um i've told you this uh before and it's one of the most dismaying things maybe the most dismaying thing about my professional feelings about journalism is that i care about what it is deeply and the minutiae of it and people do not. They just, and furthermore, I can't think of an maybe, maybe lawyers use car salesmen.
I don't, I can't think of an occupation that will get a more visceral reaction from somebody. I don't like that person.
Then media, like, like media creates a great people. Really? I underestimated how much people hate the media.
Dan, I don't want to turn this into the poor media. Right.
Defend the media or whatever. I'm just saying like it's one thing to say, I don't like you.
I don't trust you. Your information is wrong.
Like, OK, I'm with that. There are people, media people that I don't like.
I don't trust. Their information is wrong or it removes context.
It is manipulated, right? That happens, yeah. What I'm having a problem with is people are like, why is this dude writing books? Like, what? Do you not understand how any of this works? If he's not his friend, why'd he write four books about him? It's a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work.
It's not even like, I don't like you or I don't trust the media. It's like, why are you writing books? But isn't that happening all the times in arguments where there's a confirmation bias on you want to just reaffirm your feelings? That's a next level confirmation bias.
I think the thing, too, that's weird is that LeBron put voice to it. It's different when other media people or people on the internet are like, oh, Brian Windhorse is so weird, he's always following LeBron.
For LeBron to voice that in an interview, that's the part to me that was like, man, LeBron, you know Brian. You know what the deal is.
He's been building your lore since you were 17 years old and all of a sudden now you're gonna switch up and be like oh no he's weird he's trying to act like he's my best friend I'm a big fan of Brian Winters I used to produce this podcast very nice guy well thank you friend of mine actually that was good journalistic disclosure from Tony yes he has a personal thank you I have a personal relationship well done thank you why you're friends with Brian Windhorst, Dan? I just don't know him well enough. I would say we're very friendly, but friends? I don't...
If you have someone who you consider a friend, isn't that a person you've gone to dinner or lunch or coffee with once? Or that you've done something socially with them outside of work? Isn't that generally where it is that you guys would put friendship? Or it's just, most of my friends are work friends, so maybe that's not... And your trainer.
Yes, that's correct as well. Well, it's different times, right? Like, you get friends with people you've never actually met with in person.
Like, internet, texting relationships. I will say this.
Video games? Sure. I don't know if Dan's doing a lot of video games.
No, no, i'm saying other people are friends with people for a long time playing video games i got dan do a cod yeah i will say this i think i think if there was like a dinner threesome of tony brian windhorse and dan dan and brian windhorse obviously would have a better time with each other and brian would gravitate more towards dan like he'd consider dan more of a peer and friend no disrespect to you but I think that he would spend more of his time talking to Dan than you but we're there together all three of us yeah I know back and forth back and forth I mean you need a life of the party Tony's great at doing like you know the jump rope you jump in and jump out he's great at that so I could see Tony holding his own in the god we would have a great conversation yeah yesterday when you guys talk about some of the stuff that happens around wind horse and journalism and do you guys not know how this stuff works i found myself somewhere in the center of this yesterday uh appropriately enough around the food because a lot of people were informing me that something that I quote unquote reported was also rebutted by LeBron. And people believe LeBron's side now after Dwayne Wade said it and after Mario Chalmers said it.
Now LeBron has confirmed it. So this is the only sound I actually want to play from that LeBron and McAfee thing.
The plane that we were getting on, the ladies on the plane were making chocolate chip cookies. Oh, hey.
Yeah, so they knew. Oh, man.
Yeah, so they were making them and bringing them because we had the same ladies all the time. You know, it was a party of six.
You know, they were rotating. Every time they knew I loved chocolate chip cookies, they would get on and Soft.
Soft. With a little crispy edge.
Oh. Perfect.
Yeah, perfect. And I would get on and they already knew.
They'd bring me two cookies and I'd get to gambling with the guys and I got my cookies and we good. And then one flight I got on, I looked at them and they looked at me and I'm like, oh, those, that look didn't look familiar.
But I asked them, I was like, do you, we got the, he was like, no, we're not allowed to, no more cookies on these flights. What? When Wade County had to leave and go to Chicago, I looked at the cookie situation.
I was like, oh shit, maybe it wasn't that bad. He lost a lot of cookies.
Yeah, I was like, okay. I mean, D-Wade's millions in my cookies.
I was like, okay, maybe I made it all the same., okay, it wasn't that bad. So what happened yesterday, because I had said that never in my life covering the heat had I heard from so many people saying that that story was not true.
So people hear LeBron say it and say, see, LeBitard, you're wrong. And I'm like, I don't know if I'm wrong.
I know LeBron thinks that this is the reason this happened. That's clearly why he and all of his teammates think the reason this happened is because Pat Riley took away his cookies.
But I received calls from a number of people who weren't Pat Riley because Pat Riley would not care about this. And I sure as shit would never waste his time by asking him about this.
I received more calls from people in protection of Pat Riley than I've ever received about anything. And it wasn't because they were wanting me to report that.
Why would anybody report about cookies and ice cream? And why would I care one way or the other about cookies and ice cream? They were doing it because they simply, well, I would care about cookies. I say i mean come on you're fooling over you're gonna see here lie on air the trainer's gonna be mad about that yeah that's true but for some reason they all pointed out that it was the nutritionist who made that decision that it was not pat riley and i told you that and so i was reporting that sort of with a wink but a lot of people enjoyed the idea that i might be wrong when those same people are calling me yesterday after lebron says this and saying it's not true to be fair to be fair dan you messed that up that day because you kept focusing on it wasn't cookies it was ice cream and i know you were trying to make that part was funny i know but But unfortunately, it actually the same same problem we were talking about just a minute ago which is that i we're all sort of confused uh on what the line is here what's being reported what's not being reported but i'm telling you though that people assume because of what they think of journalism that that's me speaking through pat riley for Pat Riley.
And I'm telling you that it wasn't that. That's not how any of that came to be, the denial of that story.
And the reason that story is being denied is because it's being told 10 years later at a time, right? I understand why those people are reaching out to me because they see the heat and crisis and they see at the end of his career that Pat Riley is is being portrayed in a way that's not in any way player friendly like that that that is that is hostile to someone who is valuable that you don't want to piss off and it I understand that he players believe that but there is a real disconnect between whatever it is LeBron thought that was,

whatever it is that felt to around his teammates, and who was actually responsible for doing that to LeBron. I think, Dan, I want to clarify one thing for everybody listening.
So-and-so's a mouthpiece for so-and-so. If you preface the information with people from the Heat reached out to me and they said this that's not a mouthpiece I'm just

being a messenger. If Dan said it wasn't this, it was a nutritionist and never clarified where you got said information from, that's being a mouthpiece.
And I don't think you've ever done that. You've made it clear every single time.
Hey, they hit me up. They let me know about this and I'm merely passing it along.
so this goes for everybody like when someone presents you information whether they're a journalist a former player whatever and they're telling you I spoke to so and so and this is what they said that doesn't mean that this person is espousing that belief they're just merely being a messenger you're expecting people to yes I am I don't think it's too much to ask people to burn a calorie, a calorie. It is.
You're asking them to understand journalism when they hate media. Not understand journalism.
You also just asked the heat side, right? You didn't ask Mario Chalmers his thoughts. I didn't ask anybody anything.
They told him. He also didn't need to do that if he's coming out and saying, heat people called me and said this.
He doesn't need to go to the other opinion if the other opinion was already out there. He only needs to check multiple sides.
If he's reporting it as fact. If he's passing along, in the same way that when I passed along what RG3 said that he didn't, when he made that tweet, he wasn't talking about Mina.
He didn't even see what Mina said. Jeremy, when I said that, rolled his eyes.
I'm like, Jeremy, I'm not saying, oh, no, he didn't see me. I'm saying that's what he's saying.
And there's a difference there, right, is how it's presented. And so, Dan, if you're saying I'm expecting people, you know what? I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe they didn't know. Because much like a couple years ago we talked about there's a difference between analyst and reporter.
When someone breaks news versus someone says, I think this is bad for the Lakers, whatever, there's a difference between analysis and reporting. There's a difference between opinion and reporting.
It's a distinction that people don't care about. No, well, maybe.
I'm assuming they don't know and so that's what the problem is with journalism right when the same person sometimes is giving you opinion and sometimes is doing journalism that's exactly what i was going to say because there are times dan where you may say something about the heat and the fans are calling you a mouthpiece because they believe you're saying things that were told to you and you're not making the distinction of when you are and when you aren't and so i think that it's it's a really like billy said it's a tricky space to be in when you're someone i mean ultimately doesn't matter because you have a show you can say whatever you want on it but this is the sort of issue with like the blurring of the lines when you're someone who wants to report things and also someone that wants to give their opinion sometimes i don't think there's any blurred line when it comes to dan i think dan says explicitly the people from the heat said this pat Pat Riley told me that this is how he talks when he's right. I'm saying that the audience has to trust that when you're not saying that you are not being told what to say.
And some people in the audience, obviously, whether justified or not, don't think that's the case. And so that's something that like you are the only person that knows your own integrity as a reporter and as an analyst.
And so you either continue to do it or you don't. But people will always have that question about you because they know you have high up relationships with Miami Heat.
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population 5g speeds not available in all areas don lebatard ahoy is captain sloppy stugatz is

this chum bucket this is the don Levatore Show with the Stugatz. I think Dan is being attacked here unnecessarily when we've lost focus of the real situation.
Either LeBron's a liar or Pat Riley's a liar. And we need to right now vote on who is a liar.
Put it on the poll. Who's a liar? LeBron or Pat Riley? Because the cookies were being made.
There was a group of six people making these cookies. And then at some point they stopped making the cookies.
We're told a nutritionist may or may not have been involved and may have been the decision maker on the removing of the cookies and or possibly ice cream from the plane. I say that nutritionist should have been fired immediately.
If you cost your team LeBron James because you stopped putting cookies and ice cream on a plane, hit the road, Jack or Jacqueline. Well, let me ask you guys this question, because the cookies and ice cream came back the very next time that LeBron wanted them.
Do you believe if Pat Riley ordered that, that that's how that would have gone? Absolutely not. Like if Pat Riley, if LeBron is right, and look, I'm not interested in liar, although I was really surprised to see Stephen A.
Smith to simply call LeBron a liar on ESPN's airwaves because it's not something I've seen him do before. And when you say blurring the distinction between reporting and analysis, I have not seen, I'm going to try and think about this.
If I've ever seen someone of Stephen A's stature say in this scenario, call someone like that a liar. That's something you see in the lower standard form of sports radio from people who aren't Stephen A.
Smith. One of the first things Dan taught me.
He said, don't call people a liar. Just say he's lying.
Right? The action, not the... The behavior, yes.
Not the person. Because you're attacking the character of somebody there.
And it's just... Maybe I'm wrong about this.
Answer for me. Have you guys...
And all the time you've been listening to Stephen A., because maybe he has done this, have you heard him say of someone, that person is a liar? Because I have not. And so I was a little alarmed to see the stakes escalated to a point.
If we need to keep pushing the boundaries on entertainment, if we keep needing clicks, If you're aging in an industry where you have to keep up and you have to continue to be ahead of everyone else and you are Stephen A. Smith a conqueror you keep pushing the line toward places where it becomes what a mean of all people is pearl clutching on commissioner please save me from the content so I haven't heard I'm trying to think of what i've ever heard stephen a smith call people i are not a liar i've heard him say stay off the weed i said somebody he said somebody was on crack but never a liar lamar odom who was on crack yeah i you know it's funny you say that dan has he ever called anyone a liar and, I don't believe in calling people liars.

I criticize actions and behaviors.

I don't criticize people's character.

But if there were ever someone that we could accuse of being a liar,

and there should be probably like, eh, I could see it.

Wouldn't it be LeBron?

It didn't let the joke, the joke is like.

That's the whole meme, yeah.

He's pretending like he could see what was going to happen before it happened.

Oh, I was watching Kobe warm up, and I swear I told, I turned around and I told, oh, I think he's going to score 81 today. Like, come on, man.
Like, if there was anybody, this could be a legitimate thing thrown at. What's the semantics of I'm not going to say that someone's a liar, I'm going to say that they're lying? Like, if someone's cheating, are they a cheater? No, I would not go that far.
I'm just saying they're cheating. Like what's the difference? The semantics is, like in this case, Stephen A.
Smith says that what LeBron is saying is a lie. So if I say he's lying, I'm focusing it to just this, right? Versus he's a liar, that makes it mean every day of his life he walks around lying to people, which all of us do, by the way.
That's pathological lying. I mean, I feel like if you lie, you're a liar.
I think the distinction is if you're writing it and you can get sued. Put it on the poll, please, at Levitard Show.
If you lie one time, are you a liar? And also, who's lying, LeBron or Pat Riley, an important one. Or the nutritionist.

A long, long time ago, Dan was a prodigy

And his writing used to make him smile

And he knew if he had his chance

He'd rat out UM for bogus Pell Grants

And maybe learn from Cody for a while but network money made him sell his soul now he shows all his bias to the heat and now the Panthers dance fake news oh you heard? I can't remember if he cried when he told us with his face so wide that all his morals were a lie the day journalism died. So Dan was saying Oh my, how I'd love to eat pie Oh, but if it has some gluten then I think I may die I'll shoot my integrity straight into the sky Banging Panthers drums as a Cuban-born guy.

Panthers drums as a Cuban-born guy.

Billy, I need your help with something here Because I found that my lack of enthusiasm

For our March Sadness Tournament

Is something that has crippled the last couple of years of tournaments that we have thrown together. Can we update our March Sadness tournament, which I believe is aggressively trying to annoy me? No, I don't think that's the case.
But I will say this. Not aggressively.
Passive aggressively, maybe, at best. Not not aggressively uh this round we sent out a new prompt and if truth be told so that you know we keep the trains on the tracks and we get everything moving we sent out both prompts we sent out the elite eight and the sweet 16 prompts at the same time so that we would have them ready to go so you can vote today and tomorrow and then the next round you can vote on saturday and sunday this round is Sweet 16.
We had two rounds last weekend, and every time we have to, you know, send out a new prompt, so what we were trying to do was send out timely prompts, prompts that, you know, would connect fans to the show so that people, you know, are watching the show, they're interacting, and then we keep it up to date. We don't just want to send things like, what's your favorite show moment? Why would you do that? It's a terrible prompt that we would send out.

So, this week's prompt was

what is the worst

part of the life?

What is the worst part of the life?

You know, just put your nose to the grindstone and like Stugatz,

hope one day the police don't show up at my front

door with a search warrant. Wait a minute.

Warrant? W-A-R-R-A-N-T.

Give it to me.

The March Sadness. Fan versus fan tournament.

More like the Billy

Thank you. Warrant? W-A-R-R-A-N-T.
Give it to me. The March Sadness Fan vs.
Fan Tournament. More like the Billy is mailing it in tournament.
Watch a game with Levitard? The only thing Dan has in common with a basketball is that they're both round. Sorry, Dan.
What do the letters in Adam stand for? A noise Dan. April 7th.
March sadness watch-a-long. Collision course.
Poppy, what do you say to the remaining fans who think they can beat me? They can kiss my old Cuban ass. Give it to me again! Hi, it's Mike from Baltimore.
The worst part of the life is not always getting to share the things we enjoy with others. My wife and I, we love swinging.
We'd like to share that with others. But when we asked the neighbors if they wanted to swing, they said no.
When we asked the kids in the community if they wanted to swing, their parents said it was time for them to go eat dinner, even though it was only 3 p.m. So vote for me if you want me to show Dan how to swing.
Oh, damn, man. That guy is incredible.
He's gone on a run. He showed us his hole the first time, his bush the second time, and now he's showing us his swing.
Hell yeah. Yeah.
What seed was he originally? I think he's a 12. Wow.
Cinderella type. 5-12.
Yeah, man, a 12 seed. Hole and bush? Yeah, Mike from Baltimore.
Nice. Wait till you see what he does to Elite Eight.
Dan you guys are gonna have fun. You got him winning? Yeah I do.
It's fan voting. Again it's fan voting and he's gonna sit right next to you.
I heard when this was being discussed the first time okay I heard I heard Billy enjoying he didn't know I was hearing this and not enjoying it. I heard Billy enjoying the idea of fans being able to vote, just learning on their own, figuring it out on their own, that the person who needs to win is the one that Dan would least like to spend four hours with.
And I'm someone who loves our fans. Like, more than any of you guys, I actually spend time with these people, talking to them for hours the way you do not.
What are you talking about? Nobody, I'm going to say this right now. Nobody spends more time with the fans than I do.
Nobody spends more time than I do with the fans. Every time we have these events, I'm there.
You guys are awful. You go to your little cordon sections.
Not me. I'm in gin pop.
I'm hanging out with them. I'm getting drinks with them.
I'm doing shots. Every time they say, I mean, let's do a shot.
You think I want to do the shot? I don't want to do the shot. I don't want to do the shot.
Yes, you do. I don't.
I just want to have a nice sip. But you know what? Let's do a shot.
You know what they always say? What do you want to do? You know what I always say back? Whatever you want to do. Because I don't want to be like, I'd like, you know, it's whatever they want to do.
And usually they support the sponsors who support us. So it's usually Cuervo or Smirnoff or Evan Williams or any one of the fine brands that we do.
But the point is, I don't scurry off back behind the velvet rope up in my Shangri-La looking down on everybody from my ivory tower. Like, look at these peasants.
They've come to worship me. Hold on.
Let me let them touch the hem of my garment. I don't do that.
You just compared them to criminals. You said you spend time with them in gen pop.
Yeah. Gen pop.
Because I'm the general population. That's what gen pop stands for.
It's not prison. Someone has misinformed you, my friend.
I just want to be clear on how it is you have me doing this. You have me in a fine robe in some fabric of, what is it, silk? I just want to be clear.
Fine linens. I'm behind a velvet robe.
I'm in Shangri-La. High atop.
A tower made of ivory. Yes, and you're looking down.
But it's not just you. It's a lot of other characters.
Wow. Right here.
I'm not going to name names. So it was interesting.
Well, we have had some incidents in the past. We got a crazy letter today.
You normally have a space to go to now. Hold on.
By the way. Should we bring that back? The guy that snuck in that infiltrated the ivory tower? That's not even the worst of them.
There was someone worse than that, dude? Okay, I don't... In his flip-flops? I do not want to call our listeners...
We thought he was Chris Cody's friend. ...the most loyal I've seen in this medium, Gen Pop.
I don't... I'm part of them.
I'm in the general population. That's what Gen Pop stands for.
It doesn't make it any better that you're a fellow prisoner. You're calling our listeners criminals who don't deserve freedom.

And I'd like you to not do that while saying that you're better with the fans than all of us are.

One of my favorite jokes that did not make the final cut of the Akbar de Vestig bit was I asked Fuentes, what's that?

I pointed at the Freedom Tower.

He's like, oh, that's a Freedom Tower.

I said, oh, Freedom?

Well, we don't know. No, bad, very bad.
Wait, that was a bit? Weather is starting to warm up. Regular season's starting to wind down.
Games of consequence in sports starting to ramp up. I know what you're going to need by your side.
It's by my side already. Miller Lite.
Yeah, that's right. I'm making my springtime a Miller time.
I'm making my sports time Miller time. Going to a car race? Miller time.
Going to see some tennis? Miller time. Going to chill in the backyard with some friends and make some memories? Miller time.
I love Miller Lite because it's got taste that I know I can depend on. No games.
No gimmicks. It's that simple, folks.
It's just a great beer for people who like beer.

Miller Lite is brewed for taste.

It hits different than the other Lite beers.

It's got simple ingredients,

and at just 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces,

Miller time is always a good time. The original Lite beer since 1975

and still the very best one.

Miller Lite, great taste, 96 calories. Go to MillerLite.com

slash Dan to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much

anywhere they sell beer. Tastes like Miller time.
Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company,

Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories.
3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.