Best of The Program | Guests: Dr. Voddie Baucham, Matt Ridley, & Emmanuel Cafferty | 6/18/20

Charlie Sheen is an icon of decadence.

I lit the fuse and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

He's going the distance.

He was the highest paid TV star of all time.

When it started to change, it was quick.

He kept saying, No, no, no, I'm in the hospital now, but next week I'll be ready for the show.

Now, Charlie's sober.

He's gonna tell you the truth.

How do I present this with any class?

I think we're past that, Charlie.

We're past that, yeah.

Somebody call action.

Yeah, aka Charlie Sheen, only on Netflix, September 10th.

Holy cow, do we have a powerful, powerful show that you don't want to miss a second of?

First of all, we take on Aunt Jemima.

I mean, I'm glad she's gone.

But what about Mr.

Coffee?

Also, we have found a guy through some old videos that he made a couple of years ago.

He's not even in America anymore.

He's out in Africa.

We got him on the phone from Africa to tell us all about social justice and what he calls ethnic Gnosticism.

It's a powerful interview.

Also,

we also check in with Matt Ridley on coronavirus and what's the truth and what's not, and the guy who was working for San Diego Gas and Electric that got fired for making a peace sign, which he says he wasn't doing, which is, of course, a racist symbol, according to the guy who was driving next to his truck.

But that's not the story at all.

He was fired.

The person driving next to his truck said, I got it wrong.

And now, San Diego Gas and Electric won't hire him back.

You won't believe his story.

All on today's podcast.

You're listening to the best of the blend back program.

We have Dr.

Vodi Bacham on with us.

He is the Dean of Theology of African Christian University.

He's on Skype with us from Zambia.

And I want to talk to you about a couple of things.

We have about 15 minutes here left.

So

can you please explain the difference between social justice that a Christian would understand

and the social justice that is now being preached from many of our pulpits that is an anti-Christian message?

Well,

social justice has been understood clearly for a while, and social justice is distributive justice.

Social justice is about redistributing

resources and opportunities.

Social justice is not the same as the biblical idea and the biblical concept of justice.

You also need to understand that social justice is built on the back of critical theory,

which is all about the idea of you know, hegemony and power structures.

And hegemony may sound like a big academic word.

It just means that

there's a power structure that exists because of the individuals who set the rules of the game.

And they did it in order to

the critical theory is Marxist.

I just want to throw that in, correct?

That's a Karl Marx theory.

Yes.

Absolutely.

That's okay.

Yes, it most assuredly.

All right, go ahead.

Yeah.

The idea is that the power structure comes from the elites who establish things.

They set the rules of the game, and they set the rules of the game in order to benefit themselves and their posterity.

And everybody else is oppressed because they're not part of the hegemony.

This, by the way, is why women, although they're a majority, are considered an oppressed minority because the hegemony is white, male, Christian, heterosexual, cisgendered, you know, on and on and on and on and on.

Okay.

And so social justice is about really transferring power from those in the hegemony to those in oppressed groups.

The individual doesn't matter.

And again, this is why this bothers me so much, because as a Christian and as a minister of the gospel, I preach Christ and him crucified.

I preach the work that he has done and that we need to receive personally.

If we get into this critical theory business where everything becomes structural, all of a sudden this gospel has to either be transformed into something that the Bible doesn't recognize or it has to be

out.

And so this social justice movement, Black Lives Matter, for example, anyone who reads what they believe will see that they are anti-Christian.

They are fundamentally anti-Christian.

And so this whole idea, this whole idea of the social justice movement, and I get a lot of flack for it because, you know, either you have conscious bias or unconscious bias or you have internalized bias if you don't buy this hegemony, right?

You know, so it's interesting how critical theory sort of hedges itself in and protects itself on all sides.

Oh, right.

It's the same as witch hunts.

It's the same as witch hunts.

I mean, you know, that's exactly what a witch would say.

Well, I mean,

how do you defend yourself?

So

let me ask,

I have two more questions for you.

First of all,

the people that I know, the white people that I, the Americans that I know, first of all, this is happening all over the world.

This is not an American problem.

It's not a white person problem.

You know, the Chinese have concentration camps for people who are different than them.

This is the oldest story, and it is the internal struggle of each individual, as well as a society.

But the white people that I know, we're all...

This is not 1956.

It's not 1968.

It's not 1988.

We're fine.

We want people to be equal.

This system is corrupted.

Our founding system is so corrupted that it is causing all kinds of problems.

We've never really

lived up to the Declaration of Independence, but we all want to, or most of us want to.

But we feel like we're just absolutely under attack, and this kind of message is going to make race relations much worse.

How do we help?

What do we do without playing in to

the evil of Marxism?

Yeah, and I'm going to tell you, this is one of the things that really bothers me about this.

I've been

on social media since the 22nd of May, but these messages have been out there for years.

I've been talking about this for years, and I've really been frustrated with this and with the way that the attacks come.

I've been trying to talk about this from the perspective of the big picture.

And unfortunately, when you talk about it from the big picture, people tend to think, oh, you just don't have empathy.

You just don't have compassion.

You just don't understand how bad it is.

Me, who grew up in drug-infested, gang-infested South Central L.A., born in 1969, grew up during the crack era, grew up during the crack wars, if you will.

Raised by a single teenage Buddhist mother.

I wasn't raised in Christianity, never heard the gospel until I got to

university.

And so for people to try to marginalize me because I don't understand, I've been pulled over by the cops.

I've been down on the sidewalk because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I know these kinds of things happen.

And yet, I still say

that these ideologies are poisonous and they have to be confronted.

because these ideologies actually undermine our message as Christians.

I'm concerned about people.

I'm concerned about justice.

I'm concerned about souls.

And I know where this stuff comes from.

I understand where it comes from.

And I am not willing to lay down my Bible and have anyone force me to agree with certain things simply because if I don't, they will you know they will somehow label me and call me names.

I couldn't care less about people labeling me and calling me names.

I know who I am before God.

My conscience is clear.

And so

I'm worried about this like you.

I'm also an American who,

as an expat in a foreign country, I've been to dozens of countries in the world, and there's two things that I know.

Number one, black people in America are the freest and most prosperous black people in the world.

Period.

Bar none.

The second thing is this.

People outside of America think that we are the most oppressed people

in the world.

And people

actually think that things like George Floyd are happening every day, that they're not an anomaly, but that they're commonplace.

And the reputation

as

outside of our borders, it sickens me and it saddens me, but also the reputation that black people have, that somehow we are weak and impotent and that we can't do or be anything unless white people do it for us, which, by the way, is kind of racist.

I believe that

I am a descendant of some of the strongest people in the history of the world.

We overcame slavery

and now we're bowing and scraping like we need somebody to do something something for us.

Our individuality is at stake.

Our self-pride is at stake.

And our trust in God as the answer and solution to our problems is at stake.

And so for me,

this is a very complex issue, but it's one that I'm very passionate about.

I will tell you that I am struck by...

The first time I went to Israel, and I honestly didn't know much about the politics of the region.

And I was walking down the street in the old city, and there's a place where the Palestinian section stops.

It's just one street, one place, it's just an archway that separates the Jewish quarter from the Palestinian quarter.

And you walk through it, and one is dirty and dingy and dark, and the other is light and bright and clean.

And you are within five feet of both of those things.

And

it struck me that one side just says, I don't care what anybody else says, I'm doing this.

And the other side has been told for so long, it's because of them.

They're stopping you, and I'm the only one that can help you.

And it stifles growth.

I think the black community has been lied to by the progressive movement.

really almost since Booker T.

Washington died.

I mean, they were lied to before that, but when Booker Booker T.

died,

there was a shift from,

we can do this.

We don't need anybody.

We can do this.

And it's been this constant battle of, no, no, no, you're being oppressed even now.

You don't even know it, and you'll never get out unless these people.

My dad used to say to me, life isn't a series of things that happen to you, Glenn.

Life is what you do with those things.

And that's the most depressing thing about the message that's coming out of Black Lives Matter is

you're oppressed.

You'll never be able to do anything about it unless these people are gone.

Well,

there's no empowerment in that.

Yeah.

Very little hope.

That's another thing that I'm hearing is that there's very little hope.

And if our only hope is that, you know, certain people begin to have empathy or begin to do whatever it is that we think certain people need to do, then we have no hope.

My hope is in God.

My hope is in Christ.

My hope is not in America.

My hope is not in

white people, black people.

My hope is in God.

My hope is in Christ.

And what worries me also is as an academic, I mean, I'm a dean.

And I'm sure you saw that anonymous email that went out from the Berkeley professor.

This is an anonymous black professor.

Yeah, there are people in academia who are not free

to investigate issues

and do honest academic work.

And so what we're left with is these simplistic answers, right?

And so you have people who quote statistics on this side versus people who quote statistics on that side, right?

Two and a half times more likely to be shot by police, 18 and a half times more likely to, you know, shoot police officers, whatever, right?

And in both instances, we're giving these simplistic answers where the truth is something that's complex.

And so if we have automatically said anybody who picks the statistics from this column is evil and shouldn't be listened to, then we've also said that we are not going to honestly pursue complex answers to complex issues.

And what that means is we're going to use white people, or use black people rather.

We're going to use their story, we're going to use their suffering in order to advance our cause.

Glenn, that's what's been happening for decades.

And what has it gotten us?

And so here we are.

We have black mayors, black police chiefs.

You know,

we have a president who's a bi-ethnic president, you know,

all of these senators and everything else, right?

But by the testimony of black people themselves, the feeling is that things are actually not better.

The feeling is that the questions haven't been answered.

And so the frustration grows.

and the hopelessness grows and the alienation grows.

And what I'm saying is we're looking for answers in the wrong places.

Let's

ask the hard question.

Yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

I would love to have you back on again and would love to bring you to the United States.

Your voice really needs to be amplified.

Thank you so much for being on with us.

We'll have you on again.

My best of luck.

I don't even know what time it is in Zambia.

What time is it?

In the afternoon?

Is it in the afternoon?

Tour in the afternoon almost.

Yeah, six hours here.

Well, thank you so much for yeah, thank you so much.

God bless you and stay safe.

This is the best of the Glenn Beck program.

Matt Ridley is the author of How Innovation Works,

recent theories also on the coronavirus.

I've been following

his tweets.

His website, therationaloptimist.com, and he joins us now.

are you in london today still matt

no glenn i'm in newcastle in northern england so uh not in london but uh but up north well

for the rest for the rest of you know america

that's still london you know fair enough yeah there's nothing yeah uh

anyway uh so uh matt uh i want to talk to you a little bit about as we start to go back to work we're starting to hear that this thing is heating up and i think the worst thing that any of these officials could do is to

tell people that it's okay to go out in March and it was responsible after telling the rest of us screw your business you may lose your job but you must stay in now if there is another wave of this and it is really bad I think you're going to have a hard time convincing a lot of people to stay in.

They're going to say, screw you.

You didn't even believe it.

Well, I do think there has been an extraordinary double standard expressed by a lot of people in the media and officials condoning protests, but

still telling the rest of us that we have to stay home and mustn't go out and mix with people.

You know, in this country, we're not allowed to go to the pub.

We're not allowed to

have any fun at all.

But if we were to go, as thousands did a couple of weekends ago, to London and march in really close close proximity to each other and shout and scream, which of course means you're spreading a lot of droplets in the air,

then nobody seems to object.

And I do, you know, a lot of us feel that that is a double standard.

It needs to be called out.

Either those protests are going to produce a very nasty second spike of the virus, or we're going to find that it doesn't do that.

And all the evidence so far suggests that it doesn't do that.

There's no sign of an uptick, certainly in London, of either cases or of reports of people starting to feel ill and calling emergency hotlines and things like that.

And it's already two weeks down the road.

So either it looks like this has proved that we don't need so much social distancing anymore because we're into the season when this doesn't spread very well.

We've done a lot of the voluntary stuff, which has made it very difficult for the virus to spread.

And we can try and get our lives back to normal and get people's jobs back and get people's

cancer appointments back and all these things that we've stopped.

Matt,

America's golden calf of the spring was Dr.

Fauci.

And now Fauci is saying he wouldn't go to any of these Trump rallies.

It's just too dangerous.

And now we also find out there may be no immunity.

Look what's happening in China.

These people should have been immune.

They're not immune.

And it's coming for a second wave.

So which is it?

Is it dangerous?

Or can you go out in these crowds and not have any real lasting effects?

Which one?

And who do we believe?

Of course, the true answer is we still don't fully know.

This is a new virus, and we are still learning all the time.

However, we can say some things with great clarity.

And one of them is that young people are at very, very, very low risk indeed.

That if you're over 80, it is a serious problem.

It is a very dangerous virus if you've got underlying conditions.

And those are the people we need to be really careful and keep away from crowds, and keep away from social contact with people, because young people can spread it, but they're very unlikely to suffer seriously from it.

So

that's a really important point, I think, that we need to understand.

And on the point of immunity, there are lots of different things leading in different directions.

There isn't a huge amount of what you call B-cell immunity, that is to say, antibodies, in the population, but there's another kind of immunity called T cell immunity, which is partially effective and which seems to be very widespread in the population.

Some reports have said 40%, some reports have said 70% of kids under the age of four have this kind of immunity, and that's why they're not catching the disease.

Now, why have they got this kind of immunity?

Because there are four other coronaviruses that we catch pretty well every winter.

They're called the common cold.

They're one of the causes of the common cold.

And they have given us a degree of immunity to coronaviruses.

And once you factor in that, that maybe a big chunk of the population is already partly immune, then it turns out that the virus will die back of its own accord, particularly in summer, with only voluntary measures, and you won't need these drastic compulsory lockdowns.

But, as I say, we don't know that for sure.

That's the way it's looking at the moment.

It does seem, Matt, that

the seasonal aspect of it can be both encouraging and discouraging.

We are seeing some in the United States where there have been some states where we're seeing a little bit of a bounce back, but it does seem to be at least some seasonal effect.

However, does that signify we're in for it

in a big way going forward when we get to fall?

I think that is a concern because

all these respiratory viruses are seasonal.

Flu is seasonal.

Colds are seasonal.

And we don't really know why.

I mean, it's just quite interesting to talk briefly about one of those coronaviruses that cause colds.

It's called OC43.

It's the commonest of the common cold coronaviruses.

It's highly seasonal.

You only get it in winter on the whole.

Now, genomic evidence, genetic evidence suggests that that first entered the human population around 1890.

Well, it turns out there was a very bad epidemic of what was so-called Russian flu in 1889 to 90, and it sounds very like what we had today.

It hit old people harder than young people, it hit men harder than women.

So it could be that that was the first entry of that virus into the population, and it killed a million people, and it spread all around the world.

But then it became much more harmless.

And it's so harmless now that you and I have probably had it several times.

We get partial immunity to it, but in a few years later, you can get it again, and you just call it a cold.

So that holds out hope in the long run that this virus will also turn harmless.

And the reason that happens with respiratory viruses, not necessarily with other kinds of viruses, is because the virus wants you out there protesting and coughing and having fun and talking to people because that way it can spread more easily.

If you go to bed and lie still for a week and don't see anybody, then that's no good to the virus.

The virus needs another destination.

So, Matt, have we is there a definitive answer yet on

where this came from?

I just talked to somebody who said, no, no, no, researchers have found that China

put this bat virus, I think, into a mouse or something, and it's documented over in China with video.

They talked about doing it.

They weren't weaponizing it.

They were just experimenting.

And he said, because of that, and he had all the scientific jargon, because of that,

it's a

virus that was released and doesn't have any real staying power to it, and it's going to get weaker and weaker.

Have you looked into that?

Have you heard that?

I have looked into this, and I don't know the answer any more than anybody else.

We are still very uncertain here, and I don't know

what happened.

But there are several key things that we now do know.

The first is that it did not jump from an animal to a human being in that seafood market in Wuhan.

We know that for two reasons.

One, because the animals in the seafood market turn out to be to test negative.

There was no animal they could find that tested positive.

The Chinese only announced that very recently, even though they did the tests early in January, it would have been helpful if they'd let us know a bit sooner.

Secondly,

we know that it was already very well adapted to human beings in the people who caught it in the market.

So what this tells us is that the market was a super spreader event.

It was a person spreading it in the market, not an animal.

Now, that does make it less likely that we need to, well, you know,

that means that we need to look for other sources of where it came from.

And with respect to the labs, there are several questions we need to answer if we are to rule out the possibility that it's a lab leak.

Wuhan is one of the centers of

coronavirus research in the world, one of the two top centers for coronavirus research in the world.

They were working on coronaviruses.

They were combining parts of one virus with another, making so-called chimeric viruses.

They handled the sample taken from a mine shaft in 2013 that is the closest bat sample to the one we have.

For some reason they changed the name of that sample when they announced it in January and didn't say that it was from a mine shaft.

We're a little unsure about why that is, but we know that three miners died in that mine shaft from a pneumonia-like illness that turned out to be a coronavirus.

So presumably their lungs were analyzed too.

We need to know what that was.

We know that when they do these experiments in Wuhan to make combined viruses, they take the so-called receptor binding domain from one virus and add it to the backbone of another.

And that's what this virus looks like.

It looks like it's got a pangolin part for one part and a bat part for another.

We know they can do that without leaving a trace.

It used to be argued until a few weeks ago that if they had done that, they would very clearly leave a signature, a sort of restriction enzyme signature to give it its proper name.

We know that they can do it without doing that.

So there's a whole bunch of things that we know make it possible for this to have been made deliberately in the lab with a view to understanding its virulence, not with a view to making a bioweapon, and that it's possible that it therefore leaked.

Now to rule that out, the Chinese authorities need to bring forward all the researchers involved in that program and give us a complete and open account of exactly what experiments they did and why they think it did not leak.

And then we can be reassured.

It's in their interest to do that.

How do you think history is going to look back at the response of this?

This is the first time in human history that we have shut everything down.

I mean, they shut things down in London for the London plague, but not like this.

This is really kind of a test run of does this work?

Can we even do it?

How is this going to to be viewed in history as a good thing or the first in the way we handled viruses?

How is this going to be remembered?

I think this is going to be remembered as a pretty big, disastrous series of policy mistakes.

I think so, too.

We reacted too slowly at the start, we overreacted in the middle, we relied too much on scientific models, which were flawed in their forecasting.

And as you say, we used thoroughly illiberal and compulsory means to shut down the whole of society, doing huge economic damage without

and then the worst mistake of all, we let it run rampant through the care home system.

Both in my country and in New York State, there have been cases where patients were sent from hospitals to care homes without being tested for the virus.

That caused an epidemic in the care homes.

So there's a whole series of mistakes that I think I'm afraid are pretty disastrous.

And we're going to have to learn very carefully from this not to behave that way in future.

We ought to have been able to handle this with

a voluntary restrictions that saved old people who were most at risk from getting close to the virus but didn't interfere with young people going about their business and earning their living.

And that I think is one of the things we've got to do.

In my book called How Innovation Works,

I write about vaccines, I write about drugs, I write about all these innovations and I think the other lesson we have to learn is that we didn't do enough innovation in vaccine development and other things before this pandemic came along because we knew it was possible.

I'm so afraid that we'll never get past this and the same thing is going to happen is going to happen again.

We're just going to lose interest in it once we get past it and then no one's going to follow up.

Go ahead, Glenn.

Yeah.

How innovation works is

Stu is, I mean, Matt, he worships a small idol of you.

You really changed his his life.

And I've read your book, How Innovation Works.

It's really, really, really good.

And everybody should read it.

We appreciate you being on with us.

Thank you so much.

Matt Ridley, the rational optimist, rationaloptimist.com.

And the name of his book is How Innovation Works and Why It Flourishes in Freedom.

You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program.

Last night I did a special on the most dangerous dangerous cult in America, and it is this Marxist cult that is out now part of this cancel culture.

And it doesn't matter what you say,

you know, you're a racist, whether you like it or not.

And all of these companies that are playing right into this and

firing people, apologizing for things that, you know, they may not have ever done.

And

I think people are starting to catch on that it could happen to them.

There's a story of

a

principal up in Vermont that is, it's just the most remarkable story.

She said, I firmly believe that in black lives, that black lives matter, but I don't agree with the coercive measures taken to get this point across, some of which are falsified in an attempt to prove a point.

While I want to get behind BLM, I don't think that the people should be made to feel that they have to choose black race over human race.

While I understand the urgency to feel compelled to advocate for black lives, what about our fellow law enforcement officials?

What about all the others who

we advocate for and demand equity for all?

Just because I walk around,

just because I don't walk around with a BLM sign, doesn't mean that I'm not a racist or that I am a racist.

Well, she's been suspended.

What did she say wrong?

Now,

as bad as this is, imagine being fired for doing literally nothing.

And then having the people who claimed you were doing something wrong recant and say, you know what?

No, I had it wrong.

I don't think it was a racist thing.

And your employer won't hire you back.

This is what's happening to a California man who was fired from his job because someone he was on the road someone took a picture of his hand outside of his outside of his truck and he was cracking his knuckles that's what he said but they said he was forming the okay sign which is alleged white power are you kidding me do you not have anything else to do with your life

So his name is Emmanuel Cafferty.

He was fired from his position at San Diego Gas and Electric

because the Twitter user posted this, which has now been deleted, said that he was a San Diego Gas and Electric employee, and he was making the white power symbol near a Black Lives Rally.

Well, he's Mexican-American.

He said, I just was cracking my knuckles.

And he's been charged, tried, now, and convicted on social media.

And he lost his job.

When the other person said, I got it wrong,

San Diego Gas and Electric didn't care.

He's with us now in his first interview.

His name is Emmanuel Cafferty, a Mexican-American.

Welcome to the program, Emmanuel.

How are you?

Other than being unemployed, I'm fine.

So when our producers reached out to you,

you said

you just want your job back.

And then we reached out to

San Diego Gas and Electric, and they said

our employees are held to a high standard and are expected to live up to our values every day.

Whether in interactions with fellow employees or the public, we conducted a good faith and thorough investigation that included gathering relevant information and multiple interviews and took action in line with those values.

While we're not able to reveal the furl circumstances surrounding our investigation, Mr.

Cafferty's separation from the company, we stand by our decision and will not be commenting any further.

So, basically, what they're saying is they know you're a racist, but they can't tell anybody why you're a racist.

Maybe.

Or they're just saying they don't want to admit they made a mistake.

So,

and do you still want to work with those people?

Yeah, I do.

I thought I was the best position I could be.

I worked three and a half years to get that position.

And the day that I was hired by them was one of my proudest days.

And to lose it in this fashion,

it's like

it's basically.

And yeah, I want to work.

I still want to work there.

And you say that you have special skills that your job that you did, what you trained for, is very specialized.

And so there are not a lot of these jobs around.

Correct.

What is it you do?

Underground utility locating.

So,

and how do you do that?

Do you have to crawl through the sewers or do you just

use a scope of some sort?

Anytime someone wants to dig, they need to know what's underground, right?

There's a gas line there.

There's a power line there, phone line, whatever.

So, you know, we have special tools that can show where they're at.

We'll paint it on the ground, and,

you know, everyone can see where it's at.

Now, you have three daughters

and a grandson that lives with you,

and you were fired without any severance.

Correct.

That was just it.

Yeah.

How are you paying for things?

It's only been a couple weeks so far.

So, you know, I've had a little bit of savings.

But it's going to be tough here coming up, especially in the COVID climate we're living in.

Well, not only that, Emmanuel, but your former company has issued a statement that said that they know you are a racist.

They just can't tell anybody why.

I mean, I don't know how you're going to find a job with your former company saying that.

I mean,

do you have a clan?

Have you ever been a member of the Klan?

Do you know things that the average person doesn't know?

Because I honestly,

I would look at that statement and say, I'm blackballed forever.

Yeah,

luckily, when you look at my face and you see that I'm Mexican-American, it's not going to be the first thing to come up to your mind that I might be a Klan member.

So you started a petition on change.org.

Correct.

To try to convince your company to hire you back instead of a fundraising

petition, right?

This is

your saying,

help me raise enough voices to say, hire me back.

Correct.

There is now a GoFundMe

account

with my name

at the GoFundMe

site

for

legal fees

in case, because I'm not going to take this standing, I'm not going to sit down taking this.

It's just completely unfair.

If it could happen to me, it could happen to somebody else.

So I'm going to go as far as I can to make as much noise as I can to

kind of right this wrong.

So are you going for possibly a wrongful termination lawsuit or sue the guy that sicked the mob on you for civil damages?

Do you even know who it was that sick the mob on you?

We kind of figured it out.

We kind of got a name.

He's since removed his account,

which is even more maddening.

He's even gave a statement to the local media that produce and

basically recanted everything he charged me of doing.

And

all he did is said you

he said you were making the white supremacist

symbol, the OK sign.

And how far away were you when that picture was taken?

Do you even know from the Black Lives Matter rally?

No, I do know.

It's over a mile.

So you were sending a message to protesters that were a mile away?

Is that what they're alleging?

Well, no.

They just took his word for it.

he he framed a picture with his captions, with his the story of the ver his version of the story, and they for whatever reason, either they believed his story more than mine, or they just didn't care, or just because it was that weak, you know, the the week with all the racial uprising and either he just didn't want to deal with it, we believed him more than me, I don't know, but

his version of it was full of lies.

The way he put it on Twitter was just full of lies.

And

that's what happened.

And I'm dealing with the repercussions.

We're talking to Emmanuel Cafferty, who was fired for allegedly giving a white supremacist

signal as he was driving past a rally.

Emmanuel, as I look at this, what I see...

A mile, a mile past the rally.

A mile past the rally.

When I look at this, I see a situation where a lot of people are really stupid on social media, and a lot of people allege things that are false on social media, and a lot of people do really stupid things on social media.

And while the person who alleged this is seemingly clearly in the wrong here, it's a totally different standard to be held by an employer.

They seem to me to be the one who is really at fault here, and have taken, I mean, they've smeared your name, they've smeared your reputation, they've taken your job.

They really are the ones who are, in a way, confirming this ridiculous allegation against you.

To me, they seem to be the ones who are most at fault here.

Is that how you see it as well?

No.

No, I don't.

I see what this guy did.

He's like a real-life troll.

He put me and the company

in a tough position.

One, they have to make a decision whether, you know, a company like that, they're going to just say,

we have no

patience for racism.

They're going to have to, you know, make a big, bold statement.

And unfortunately, for me, I ended up being a sacrificial lamb for that.

But had this guy just stayed in his own lane, had this guy not went out of his way to take a picture, first of all, I'm not even making a white supremacist gesture in the picture he takes.

And if he doesn't put that online, tagging my opinion, tagging every news outlet in the city, none of this will happen.

The actions of this one troll is the reason why I don't have a job today.

It's a very adult way of handling it.

I don't know that I would have the same restraint, but I would say it does give the company

a real out here and a possibility to make this right,

where they can rehire you and

make this into a situation where social media got out of control, they made a wrong decision and can correct it.

They still have a window here.

It seems like you're giving them a manual, and they should definitely take it.

And it's more than kind.

I personally would be living off of the profits of a litigation suit that would never go to court because they would settle for big dollars because unless they have something on you that they really can't say, they've just said, we fired you.

Yeah, and well, that might not be right.

We did our investigation and homework.

And this guy, man, is he a racist?

And I think you're going to have a hard time finding a job after that.

that.

Yeah, yeah, they could say that they could say that my interaction with him at all is against their public image and that's why I'm fired.

Well, I wish you the best of luck, Emmanuel.

I'm sorry this happened to you or anybody,

but I appreciate it.

And like Stu said, you're being much more,

I guess, Christ-like than I would be.

But the best of luck.

And you can go to change.org or to

what's the other one?

GoFundMe.

That are raising money.

Yeah.

GoFundMe.

His name is Emmanuel Cafferty.

Emmanuel Cafferty.

Thank you so much, Emmanuel.

I appreciate it.

God bless.

Does anybody else think that that's just bowing down to this company?

I mean,

these companies are bowing down to everybody.

If you don't teach these companies a lesson, they're not going to stop.

They'll throw anybody under the bus.

Yeah.

Throw anybody under the bus.

It's an interesting approach there because it seems like he really does want the job pack.

And I certainly would not want to come back to a company that treated me that way.

But I think he's looking at this and saying, Look,

this person made a false accusation.

I can understand why companies get pressured into these situations,

especially in this current environment.

So he's given them another chance.

I mean, this is a gift from this guy.

He does not have to provide this gift to this company.

They should take him up and they take it.

Yeah.

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