How to Find Your Purpose, Get Unstuck & Ignite Your Dreams w/ Bumble Founder Whitney Wolfe Herd

I am so excited for this episode today with my amazing friend, founder and CEO of Bumble, Whitney Wolf Hurd. These next few minutes together today with you, me, and Whitney are going to be so magical.
So buckle up because if you're someone who needs to reignite inspiration in your life today, if you need that boost to get unstuck and decide it's time to write your own rules in life, love, and in your goals and dreams, if you're someone who wants to learn how you can get more love and connection and even more true friends in your life right now, today's episode is for you. It's so easy to see someone's story on the outside or see the outcome.
In Whitney's case, she's been touted as becoming one of the youngest female billionaires in the country and has graced the covers of countless magazines as a visionary and success story. But just like you and me, it's the story behind the story that's where the most inspiring and interesting parts are.
are the stories where we learn that we're not alone and that our own wild, crazy dreams just might be possible for us too. Whitney's incredible journey of ups and downs, of being totally on top and in, and then totally on bottom and out, and then building her own mountain again to build the life of her dreams on her terms while touching the lives of millions of others along the way.
I just know it's going to shake your shoulders in the best way, touch your soul, and wake up that unstoppable power inside of you to change your life today. Coming up in this episode, I've come to realize that self-worth does not equal net worth.
I will tell you that on paper, at my on paper wealthiest, according to society's standards, I was spiritually the poorest I've ever been. You're just going there right away.
And I love this so much. And I just watched myself get decimated on the internet and turned into this scorned woman.
And just like that at 24, it was all over. So yeah, I retreated to Uggs and staying inside and hiding.
I didn't have anything. I, everything had been stripped.
I was turned on and I had nothing, but it's one of the best things that ever happened to me because when you have your dignity, perceived dignity, your perceived self-worth taken from you,

this kind of magical thing happens where you realize you've nothing left to fear.

It's gone.

So many of us are scared to start or do or try because we don't want to lose this thing, whatever that might be. But it was gone.
And that's where the magic started. That was where the magic happened because the space was cleared.
This is big. This is so big.
So few people get this. This is like one of the biggest keys to success, in my opinion.
It's one of the biggest keys to success, one of the biggest keys to finding your purpose, one of the biggest keys to fulfillment. Like jumping out of my chair because I knew how inspiring this would be.
And I'm just thinking about every person listening or watching this right now who's having a big aha moment. I heard a voice in my head.
I don't know whose voice it was. I heard a voice clear as day.
And it said, like, I have chills thinking about it. All these years later, enter Tinder, enter another traumatic situation.
These patterns that we're all in, we're all in patterns until we break them. And my pattern was broken when I laid on that ground, literally on the bath mat after Tinder.
And I said, oh my God, oh my God, this is it. I am going to course crack this whole thing.
I'm going to create a positive social network. I'm going to harness technology for good.
And I'm going to take what almost killed me, and I'm going to make us stronger. And that was the moment.

Inspiration and mentors matter.

Like seeing things that inspire us matter.

Get inspired.

Watch this show with everybody you bring on.

Like, you know, read about people that have defeated their own odds.

And that energy does kind of impart on us.

And we can do it too.

Whitney Wolfherd is the founder and CEO of Bumble, an online dating, friendship, business, networking, mentoring, community, and connection platform launched in 2014. She's also a co-founder of Tinder and has been named to just about every big success list you can imagine, from Forbes' America's Richest Self-Made Women's List to the Time 100 list.
She's graced the covers of countless magazines, including Fast Company, Wired, and Forbes. In February 2021, she became the world's youngest female billionaire when she took Bumble public and was the youngest to have taken a company public in the U.S.
at age 31. She's also a profoundly deep, interesting, and incredibly brilliant woman.
She's a wife and mama to two beautiful little boys, Bobby and Henry, who I am convinced are future Olympic athletes. And she's also my dear friend.
I am so excited to have you here. Whether you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family.
Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share it with every single woman that you know, because it can change her life too.
Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life.
Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring.
Jamie Kern Lima. Whitney Wolf Heard, welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.
So sweet of you. Thank you.
I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
What an honor. I just absolutely adore you.
And there's nothing better than connecting with a true friend over some coffee and a microphone. Yes, yes.
Well, I'm just, I'm honored you're here. And you are someone who, it's funny, before we just started this interview, you're like, nothing's off.
Like, we just go for it. Have you always been a person? Because so many women, especially, are scared to be authentic and to just speak their truth.
They're afraid, you know, maybe they'll be judged or rejected or not loved or not accepted. And so they sort of, like, you know, dim their own light.
Have you always been this way? And how have you gotten to this place? You know, how do you speak your truth and just fully say, this is who I am with full transparency and confidence? Well, first of all, that's such a compliment. And I would say the exact same thing about you.
I think we are all inherently deeply authentic people, but then we choose to, for whatever reason, at various parts in our journeys or throughout our lives, we choose to put on a mask. And the mask is generally there to what we believe protect us or to shield us or to save us from someone judging us or not wanting us or accepting us or disapproving of us.
And what I've really come to realize is like we were all born deeply authentic. We are also our authentic selves.
And then slowly, somewhere along the way, we convince ourselves that we should blend in or be a part of the crowd or change who we are. And I just had this, I don't know if it's realization or whatever, download, however you want to call it.
But I realized after I left Tinder that there were so many times that I was not authentic to myself when I was there. And I just promised myself after that whole ordeal that I'm not always going to be the best and I'm not always going to win.
And I'm not always going to be loved and I'm not always going to be liked and I won't be accepted and I won't be invited. But the one thing no one can take away from me is that the end of the day, I'm always going to be me, whatever that means.
And so I think it's a commitment to ourselves to fall back in love with that authentic version of who we are and try to honor that and live with that. And so that's kind of where I'm at now.
And I just try to be me. I don't even know what that means.
And it's not for everyone. And that's okay.
And the stuff of if someone doesn't get it or doesn't approve or this or that, you're over that. Like you're not, you're like, that's not worth worrying about.
The feeling of who I truly am is where your power is. Yes.
I'm not going to pretend and say, oh, I don't care what people think, or that didn't hurt my feelings, or so-and-so didn't invite me, or so-and-so doesn't like me, and who cares? No. I mean, we're all, even when we are our highest selves, we are all having a very earthly experience here in these bodies that we have.
And with that comes all of those feelings that we all possess. And so I think the way I deal with that is I don't shame myself for having hurt feelings or for caring what someone did or didn't think about me.
I just kind of look at it and I stare at it and say, okay, that's okay. That's like a wounded part of you that is feeling that way and we'll live with it.
We'll accept all these pieces. And so that way it doesn't take over your life.
And there were years of my life that all I cared about was what people thought about me.

At any cost, I did not want someone to dislike me.

It was my worst fear.

And then you're kind of like, this is a full-time job and one I'm not getting paid for.

So, you know, why am I doing this? It's draining my accounts physically, spiritually, mentally, you know,

the metaphor of just like being completely bankrupt. Yeah.
Yeah. But emotionally, and I'll

share one thing. So fascinating.
And because you led with this, it's not something I ever really

think about because I don't, I've come to realize that self-worth does not equal net worth. And I'm

a very privileged person who's had the opportunity to learn that. But I will tell you that on paper, at my, on paper wealthiest, according to society's standards, I was spiritually the poorest I've ever been.
And I think that's really important for people to know. It's like, that's not where you get your worth.
Yeah. And what an incredible gift you've gotten to see all sides.
So you can say that and know that for sure. Because so many people are like, oh, when I get that thing, then I'm going to feel enough.
When I get that big job, when I get that number in my bank account, when I get the relationship, when I get the car, when I get the six pack abs, then I'm going to feel enough. And you've gotten a whole lot of things.
And that's really not surprising to me because I've had very similar experiences, but it's not what we learned. We learn, oh, you know, you, cause, cause Whitney, oh my gosh.
And I want to actually dive into something you just said. I was going to bring this up way later in the interview, but you're just going there right away.
And I love this so much because there are so many people struggle with people pleasing and with thinking like, and with feeling imposter syndrome or thinking, I don't have what it takes or thinking that, you know, if I'm the real me, I won't be loved. And like you just said, it is a full-time job.
It's exhausting. And with everything that you have and continue to build with Bumble, congratulations on, you know, being back as CEO again, founder and CEO.
But with everything that you continue to build there, the millions and millions and millions of people that have new relationships in their life because of Bumble, whether they're romantic relationships or they go on there to meet friends or they go on there to meet a mentor. Because so many people, that's probably one of the biggest questions I get asked every day is, will you mentor me? And how do I find a mentor? And it's the biggest thing.
And so, so genius to have, you know, Bumble biz, which is like mentorship and networking, jobs, new jobs, new careers, all of it. You have built so much with Bumble and you continue to.
And I think that on the outside, everyone can see, wow. I mean, they just heard the introduction, which they probably already know a lot of this about you.
But if they don't know, they're like, oh, wow. So Whitney Wolf heard, you know, one of the most inspiring, iconic, visionary women and businesswomen in the country.
And I think that what you shared so courageously already is that I think people will be surprised to know is your journey has not been easy. It has not been a straight road.
Things just didn't fall into your lap. You didn't just wake up and start with the idea for Bumble and it all just happened.
You've had a journey. And there are a lot of people that are sharing this energy with you and I right now that maybe have had setbacks or hard times or things not go their way or a boss that does not like them and they feel like if I do anything, I'm going to be ousted even more or, or, or someone who just a relative, it could be any number of things.
And it's easy for us as humans and to say, okay, well, my past is going to define my future. If all of these people kicked me out or this didn't go my way or my business failed or this happened or that how the press or online social media is writing something bad about me, it's easy for us to think my ship has sailed.
Like how can I ever recover from this? And there's so many people that are holding on to shame from things that have happened and letting it almost define their

identity.

And I am so excited that you already opened us up to this because this is going to change

so many lives.

When you, long before Whitney founded Bumble, not that long before, but before Whitney found

Bumble, you were co-founder at Tinder, at Tinder.

And can you share how the journey there wasn't what you expected? Yeah. So I, just to touch on a bit of what you just said, I think if I could, and I'm still on my journey.
So I feel like I can say this with a sense of we're in this together to whoever is watching or listening, because I don't think I've arrived at my final destination. Certainly, I hope not.
I'm 35. So I hope that there's still a lot ahead.
I will say the following. There's so much more coming up in this episode.
You are not going to want to miss it. But first, I wanted to share this with you.
In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth.
When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life for You.
If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more.
Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below.
Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy.
Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you. My weekly free inspirational newsletter is packed with tips and tools to help you find out.
It's called One-on-One with Jamie, and it's delivered right to your inbox each Tuesday morning. It's a love letter from me to you, from my soul to yours, and I hope it brings you the words and messages you need at just the right moment.
Plus, when you're a part of my free inspirational newsletter community, you'll be the first to get behind the scenes content, inspirational messages, and be the first to learn about upcoming events and more. It's the place to be.
And I sure hope you'll join me there. So if you're not on the list yet, you can sign up for free at jamiekernlima.com or click the link in the show notes below.
And here's to becoming unstoppable together. And now more of this incredible conversation together.
Can you share how the journey there wasn't what you expected? Yeah. So just to touch on a bit of what you just said, I think if I could, and I'm still on my journey.
So I feel like I can say this with a sense of we're in this together to whoever is watching or listening, because I don't think I've arrived at my final destination. Certainly, I hope not.
I'm 35. So I hope that there's, you know, still a lot ahead.
I will say the following. If I sat down and I put the 10 worst days of my life on a piece of paper, and I reflected on those days from where I am today.
It doesn't take away from the pain of those days. It doesn't take away from how hard they were, but the reframing I'm able to have now is without those days, without them, I wouldn't be here.
So technically the worst days, it's hard to call them the best days because that's not factual. They were critical days.
They were necessary. The hard parts were the good parts because without the hard parts, you don't really get to that next stepping stone.
And so I really believe whoever you are listening, whoever is going through setbacks, they feel like they're just getting punched, you know, time and time again by life, work, relationships, rejections. It's because these are happening for a reason.
And so I think we all fight rejection. We all fight it.
Why did this happen to us? I didn't want that to happen. But I think if we actually get into the flow of it and say, okay, let's look at the bigger picture.
Why is this all happening? There is a bigger arc here. There's a bigger path here.
And so the reason why I say that is if I go back and I reflect on my time at Tinder, I had a choice when I left. I could have spent all of my time feeling disappointed and sad and devastated about what had transpired at the company.
Or I could have said, I'm going to learn from this and I'm going to take what almost killed me and make us stronger. And I think this is very important framing because we all walk around saying what didn't kill me made me stronger.
And I think the way I look at life is what did almost kill me can make all of us stronger. And so I have full body chills right now, but this is the key defining purpose.
This is it. Yeah.
Yeah. And you've been there.
Yeah. Well, you share Whitney in your own words, because I think that's important.
Um, just for everyone listening, what happened at Tinder that you're talking about that became such a hard time. And then I want to ask you the phase you went in after, because I think so many people have been in that spot.
And I'm talking about the same outfit and Uggs for a month and not leaving the house. That's right.
Yeah. That's right.
So, you know, I really, and people have a hard time believing this. I can't tell you how many times I meet someone and they're like, oh, you built Bumble as a revenge story.
Wow. You had a chip on your shoulder and you really got, you really got them.
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. If I had for one second, one, and I want to be very clear and everyone should remember this.
If I had for one second been and I want to be very clear, and everyone should remember this.

If I had for one second been operating with the intention or the energy of vendetta, revenge, or a chip on my shoulder, I would not be in this seat today with you right now. Yeah.
Revenge is not a plot for success. It's not.
And it is, there are a thousand famous, you know, philosophical quotes attributed to what

revenge really is.

You know, some of the famous ones are, you know, revenge is, you know, drinking poison

and waiting for the other person to die.

There's a thousand of these.

I have never once, Jamie, had an inner intention, wish, desire, or energy towards seeking revenge. When I was at Tinder, all I wanted was to see this product that was helping people connect to succeed.
And I had differing opinions than the leadership that I was building the company with.

And, you know, I don't talk about these people because candidly, I'm of the mindset that, you know, love and light. I genuinely, when I think back on anyone involved, instead of getting angry or upset or stressed.
I closed my eyes and I literally cover them in bright light. And I say, I wish them love and light on their journey.
Genuinely, that is it. And I carry on.
And so even though I was, you know, I was 22 when we started Tinder, I was 24 when I left. The way I left was very dramatic.
I really don't rehash it. If anyone wants to Google it, they're more than welcome to.
It's not that exciting. It's so old news, but it was a very contentious exit.
And it led to a very, very public lawsuit. Very public.
I never had the intention or wish or want to be involved in a lawsuit to begin with. And nor did I ever want it to be public.
So here I was 24 years old and I'll never forget, I woke up at maybe three in the morning, the night that lawsuit had been filed. And when you file a lawsuit, it's very public and you know know, it gets picked up.
Um, but I never could have expected it going global or front page of this or that. And I woke up and I think I had, you know, a billion, not actually, but, you know, just countless notifications.
And I was headline after headline, after headline, after headline, after headline. And I just watched my like life leave my body in terms of like, okay, the narrative is now no longer the truth.
It is whatever the internet has turned it into. And what's scary about something like that happening when you're 24 years old and your entire life is wrapped up in this company you helped create, they can take it from you.

They meaning the collective, the narrative, the fodder, the chatter, the collective kind

of opinion.

They can rob you blind of your identity and of your dignity and of your happiness.

And so the internet attacked me.

This was before me too. This was

before Time's Up, this whole narrative of, you know, women's equality at work. And I just watched myself get decimated on the internet and turned into this scorned woman.
And just like that at 24, it was all over. So yeah, I retreated to Uggs and staying inside and hiding.
And I was very fortunate to have my now husband as my boyfriend at the time, God bless him. But I didn't, I didn't have anything.
I, everything had been stripped. They took, you know, my, my title had been stripped from me and my contributions were questioned extensively in the media.
So all of that was gone. My financial gain in the company was being fought over through this lawsuit and my friends were gone.
I was turned on and I had nothing. But it's one of the best things that ever happened to me because when you have your dignity, perceived dignity, your perceived self-worth taken from you, this kind of magical thing happens where you realize you've nothing left to fear.
It's gone. Your worst nightmare is playing out in real life.
What else is there left to give? And so many of us are scared to start or do or try because we don't want to lose this thing, whatever that might be. But it was gone.
And that's where the magic started. That was where the magic happened because the space was cleared.
How long before it happened and you got to the point where you knew that? Because I know, you know, and nowadays, unfortunately, every, you know, person is just about every person's online. You know, people that used to be private before now, maybe they're a doctor, a lawyer, a teacher, and their profile's online and everything's just online.
And so, so many people now, I think, can relate in whether it's in their community or their network or, you know, whatever it might be to just narratives online that may or may not be true. And, you know, you, I know, went through so much online hate from everything from death threats to rape threats to the most horrific stuff.
And how long did that go on and how did it impact you before you're like, you know, before you realized that you were going to turn it into something for the greater collective? Yeah. Yeah.
I would say that it, so if I, if my memory serves me well, I believe the lawsuit was public by the end of June, 2014. I had left the

company in April of 2014. Some of the darkest months were April to June.
Dark, dark, dark, dark, hard, horrible, heavy, lonely. Everything was gone.
And then the lawsuit launched and I'll never forget I turned 25 25 years old about a week later. And here I was 25, 25.
Let's really think about that for a second. 25 is like the edge of becoming a real adult, but you're still so young.
Yes. And you're still so full of life and you're still so allowed to be flawed, 25-year-olds are allowed to be 25.
They're allowed to go to the bar and have a couple too many drinks. They're allowed to get fired and sleep on their parents' couch for a few months.
They are allowed to be 25. Yeah.
That was taken from me. And I was not allowed to be 25.
I all of a sudden needed to be a very, very strong warrior. And I basically had to exist in two realities.
One reality was warrior, go forward, get in the Marina, go for it. Be brave, be bold, be courageous.
Even though you're scared to death, just be courageous. And it's a very famous quote, but courage actually can't exist with the absence of fear.
You have to be scared to be courageous. That's what courage means.
So I just had to be courageous. But at the same time, I was completely devastated and traumatized, deeply traumatized.
So what's fascinating, Jamie, is I started Bumble. We had Bumble live in the app store by December 1st of 2014.
So if you think through that, I left in April of 2014. The lawsuit went live at the end of June and Bumble was alive in the public by December 1st.
So I had to exist in two realities, one of, of pain and wound. It was like running a marathon with, you know, a sprained ankle, whatever the metaphor of that is.
And I'm not trying to be insensitive to anyone that's actually had to run a marathon in worse circumstances, but whatever that vision is that you can think of, like, you have to just go, you got to keep going. Like you don't have time to stop.
And so it was this kind of blessing and curse at the same time where I, I had to just keep going. And I think so many people around the world, regardless of their circumstances, which have been much worse than mine, you just have to go in forward motion.
You just have to go in forward motion. It's the only option we have.
You know, I want to just call something out, Yashir, that I think is so powerful because I don't want anyone to miss it, anyone to miss it because the humanness of some people, you know, when something horrific happens to them or they get a setback or they, or somebody wrongs them or someone excludes them or someone rejects, you know, rejects them is to be like, I want revenge on that person. And what I know, what I believe for sure in my life is like, we meet the vibration of the thing for it to happen, right? So when you're sharing, you know, that you are taking the thing that happened to you and instead of feeling revenge or this or that, you're like, oh, how can I actually make this better for everyone else? That's right.
Right? And that intention of how can I do something greater than myself? and that intention, in my opinion, is then you meet the vibration of that. And of course, Bumble is a huge success.
You know what I mean? But it's like, and this is a big lesson because, I mean, I have friends, I have family that they don't know how to do anything, especially family, some family. I have five families, long story, but through adoption and everything else.
But I have so many family members, they don't know how to do anything else, especially family, some family. I have five families, long story, but through adoption and everything else.
But I have so many family members, they don't know how to do anything else other than be in that place of, you know, wanting revenge or wanting, you know, this or that, or it's not fair or, you know, all the things. And, and, and I think it's just so key to go, okay, yes, that happened.

Yes, that hurt me really bad.

Yes, for so many people that thing didn't feel fair or, you know, all of that. And then also, you know, we have control eventually, of course, after we process everything of like, and what do I do with this? Right.
You know, and, and your distinction of just, you know, that it can make you stronger versus, oh, it can make us stronger. You guys, I just want to call this out.
This is big. This is so big.
So few people get this. This is like one of the biggest keys to success, in my opinion.
It's one of the biggest keys to success. One of the biggest keys to finding your purpose, one of the biggest keys to fulfillment, right, is to take the thing and not just say like, you know, what is this here to teach me or what am I supposed to learn from? But like, oh, wait, what is this here to teach us? Like, what am I supposed, how is this going to help us? And that distinction is so big.
And I feel like also it is not easy building any company. So even though Bumble is a massive success, It Cosmetics was a massive success.
I can tell you there is no chance It Cosmetics would have made it if I was not thinking about how is this helping others? How is this helping something greater than myself? Because it was too freaking hard and too many setbacks and too many hard times and too many long hours for me to stay in it. If it was just helping me, I would have been like, peace out.
That is so right. And this is big.
And that's it. It's moving the mindset from me to we.
That's it. And candidly, that was what drove me every day, just like it drove you every day.
You got up there and you weren't selling a solution for yourself necessarily. You're like, oh, I am affected by this.
And I did use my personal situation to create a solution, but you didn't do it for you. Right.
And I was also like,

did it for everybody else. I was so tired of seeing images that didn't look like me, like all the things and everyone had flawless Photoshop skin and growing up, it always made me feel like I wasn't enough.
And it was like, oh wait, how do we change that narrative in beauty? Like, it was like, how do we, yeah, it was, it was bigger. And I think, um, I, I want to just call that out because one thing you say, um, you know, Bumble, right.
I think so many people love Bumble because it helps them with connection in their life, whether again, it's through meeting friends, uh, on friends with Bumble or, or, or in business with mentors and everything else, or, or in romantic relationships. And so, uh, but you say, and I think this is big because there's a lot of people sitting here right now that know they've had hard times, know they've had setbacks, but haven't yet like actually considered, well, wait a minute, how does that thing help us? That's right.
Collectively. And you say that you can't have connection, truly understand connection without having felt this connection.
That's right. And, you know, two things I want to ask you about.
I have so much, oh my gosh, Whitney, I already know, I'm already fired. I'm like jumping out of my chair because I knew how inspiring this would be.
And I'm just thinking about every person listening or watching this right now who's having a big aha moment with their own journey, with their own journey, because it's so easy to stay in our setbacks and not realize, oh wait, they're set ups for what we're called. They're set ups.
Right? And you have said, you have said that some of the things that have fueled you into your sort of collective vision for the offerings you're putting in the world right now. But I want to tell everyone this really quick.
It wasn't just instantly Tinder to Bumble, right? It was, it was the idea of Merci, which is like a compliment platform. It was this idea of how can you, you know, collectively, right, turn everything you've been through into this offering that raises the vibration for everybody.
But you've said that to really understand connection, the way that you have turned it into an offering for the world, you also had to understand disconnection. And you've also talked about that a lot of your passion for creating Bumble and for all the work that you do, part of it has come from unhealthy relationships, abusive relationships in your past.
And I want to ask you about it again as another, what I hope, story and tool for people that they can lean on if they have a shared experience or if they're like, huh, having some ahas today about just how they can transform everything they've been through into something that becomes such a beautiful purpose. But you've had, I mean, since the age of seven, I know you talk about 17, when you were 17, can you just touch on that for a moment? The relationship you were in, who you were in that time and how did that, how did that, because when you talk about the 10 worst days of your life, how did that time lead to this time? Yeah, no, I think we'll start there.
So when I was 15 years old, I got my very first boyfriend, very young. I was young for my grade.
So while I was 15, everybody else was 16. And he was older.
He was 16 or 17, maybe a grade above. I can't remember at this point.
And it was, wow. It was definitely the hardest thing I've ever gone through in my life, even to today.
Like even with all the struggles because of how vulnerable I was, you know, I've been through technically worse things at an older age, but I was more equipped to deal with those things, right? When you are 16 years old, 15 years old, 17 years old, and it is a first on every level, oh man, it'll take you to your studs. And, um, he was horribly emotionally abusive to me.
Um, when I reflect back on it, I'm like, oh yeah, I didn't think I was gonna be able to to survive high school. Genuinely.
Like that was my, I'll never forget sitting with my teacher, one of my teachers, which was like my only real, one of my only real outlets. She was this amazing teacher.
I won't name names. She knows who she is.
I reached out to her. She was at my high school and I would sit with her during lunch in the classroom and she was like my safe space and she would help me.
Um, but I was trapped. I didn't know how to get out.
And man, I don't really know how that even unfolded because I have children now. And I'm like, how does a child get into that situation? But you know, it's silent.
It's a silent, it is a silent killer. Abusive relationships can be very silent killers.
And what's scary is the amount of people that have been through it and you don't know it. They've never talked about it.
Maybe they haven't even admitted it entirely. Or how many of us have watched someone we love at the hands of this, this, this disgusting, horrible, um, opposite of love.
Right. And I will never forget, Jamie, I swear, I swear on whatever God I define as what I believe in.
Um, I will never forget. I was 17 years old and the relationship was ending and I thought I was dying.
I thought I was dying. I literally thought I was dying.
And I was on a flight home, back home to Salt Lake City. And I was in the most pain physically, mentally.
I didn't even know what spirituality was. So whatever that was at the time.
And I heard a voice in my head. I don't know whose voice it was.
And I'm a sane person. So this was not like a mental illness of any kind.
I heard a voice clear as day, and it said, There's so much more coming up in this episode. You are not going to want to miss it.
But first, I wanted to share this with you. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams.
You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life.
And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life for You. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worth is for you.
In worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness.

Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome.

Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more.

Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be?

Imagine a life with zero self-doubt

and unshakable self-worth.

Get your copy of Worthy

plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts

for you at worthybook.com

or the link in the show notes below.

Imagine what you'd do

if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy.
Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you. My weekly free inspirational newsletter is packed with tips and tools to help you find out.
It's called One-on-One with Jamie, and it's delivered right to your inbox each Tuesday morning. It's a love letter from me to you, from my soul to yours, and I hope it brings you the words and messages you need at just the right moment.
Plus, when you're a part of my free inspirational newsletter community, you'll be

the first to get behind the scenes content, inspirational messages, and be the first to learn about upcoming events and more. It's the place to be, and I sure hope you'll join me there.
So if you're not on the list yet, you can sign up for free at jamiekernlima.com or click the link in the show notes below. And here's to becoming unstoppable together.
And now more of this incredible conversation together. I will never forget.
I was 17 years old and the relationship was ending and I thought I was dying. I thought I was dying.
I literally thought I was dying. And I was on a flight home, back home to Salt Lake City.
And I was in the most pain physically, mentally. I didn't even know what spirituality was.
So whatever that was at the time. And I heard a voice in my head.
I don't know whose voice it was. And I'm a sane person.
So this was not like a, you know, a mental illness of any kind. I heard a voice clear as day and it said, this will be your life's purpose.
You will prevent 17 year old women from this pain. Like it was a clear as day voice.
And it basically said, this will all make sense one day. Like I have chills thinking about it.
And it basically said like, you are going to go on a crusade to help other women in these relationships. And I didn't know what it meant.
I was 17 years old. I thought I was going crazy.
I thought I was literally going crazy, but I remember it so vividly. I'll never forget it as long as I live.
And all these years later, all these years later, enter Tinder, enter another traumatic situation. These patterns that we're all in, we're all in patterns until we break them.
And my pattern was broken when I laid on that ground, literally on the bath mat after Tinder. And I said, oh my God, oh my God, this is it.
I am going to course crack this whole thing. I'm going to create a positive social network.
I'm going to harness technology for good. I'm going to help the 13, 15, 17 year old girl who is in a toxic relationship, is getting abused on the internet, is being treated the way I've just experienced directly.

And I'm going to take what almost killed me and I'm going to make us stronger. And that was the moment.
And that was what? The intention, which I want to really emphasize this. Life is about two things, intention and attention.
The intention we set, as your beautiful magical friend Oprah will say, is the foundation of everything. But it can't stop there.
You know, you have to give it extreme attention and focus and persistence and care and water it all day long, nurture it all day long, or that intention can't grow. It can't thrive.
But I can tell you the intention behind Bumble is pure. It is good.
It's never about revenge. It was never about a vendetta, never not once.
And I can live and die by that. And that's the difference between something taking on a beautiful life of

its own and something being a force for evil in the world. That voice that came to you clear as day that you heard.
And now at 35, what do you think that voice was? Who do you think that was? It's my higher self.

It is my higher self.

And we all have it.

It's all in us.

We just build walls around it and they're soundproof. You can't hear it.
You can't feel it. You can kind of feel it.
It kicks and screams at the wall and you can get that like feeling in your tummy and you're like, oh, what was that? You know, that's your, that's your higher self talking to you through your, through your belly, through your heart. Um, but we drawn it out.
Did it sound like a man or a woman or indescribable? You know, it's so interesting. It had male energy, but it wasn't, I, I, I don't know if I would say, Oh, that was a man's voice, but I can't also say like, oh, that was like my grandma.
I can't attribute it to like a person. It almost felt like a higher calling, like a spiritual message.
Now upon reflection. At the time, if you told me that was a spiritual message, I'd be like, okay.
You know, I had such a disdain for spirituality growing up because I didn't recognize the distinction between spirituality and religion. And I'd been, been brought up in a very strange religious dynamic.
I had a Jewish family raising me on my dad's side of the family. I had a Catholic family raising me on my mom's side of the family.
And then I was in a very, very strict Mormon community. If you had a Coke, you were going to hell.
In Utah. Oh, you're going to hell, like burning fire hell.
And if you didn't have a Coke, like you'd probably meet the gates of heaven. But then in Judaism and Catholicism, like these were different constructs.
And so I kind of always was like, this all feels like a, this all feels like it's saying different things. But I think the meaning of all of this is like trust and love, right? Isn't the center of it? Did you believe in a God or a higher power at that point at 17, or did you believe there wasn't one? And then that, and then you heard that voice.
I think I did not believe there was one, but I will say like you, I don't know how it was for you as a child. I was born very intuitive.
Yeah. I have gotten what I call downloads or premonitions my whole life, my whole life.
I mean, I have spoken to family members like, oh, you said this thing when you were seven and then it happened the next day. Like it's just part of who I am.
And I think we all are capable of it. It's just how far open have we allowed ourselves to be.
But I think my abilities had outpaced my belief, right? Like I was operating beyond what I believed was possible. And so I just shut it down.
I was like, that's not possible. That's just crazy.
Um, but no, I think there were moments along the way that started to open me up. And now I would consider myself, um, I would say spirituality is one of my number one core life priorities.
And when it's nurtured, I am in an alignment. And when it's not,

like when that spiritual plug comes out of the wall, I'm like, oh, whoa, where are we? I'm off

kilter. So I've got to stay plugged in.
And that has to, you know, you got to keep that electric

cord plugged in and meditation, nature, genuine connection. Those are the recipes for that, in my opinion.
You know, two things on that. I just had a family member, I won't say who, who has not believed in a higher power.
And she just had the most profound experience, like to her shock. What happened? Where she audibly, she felt like she heard God talking to her and she is just kind of shook over it.
She tried to tell other family members who also don't believe. And I think they just kind of like, oh, okay.
What did she hear? What was it? It was something about something going on in her personal life. And it was just very clear.
She's never believed. And I won't say her age or people will figure it out.
She has never believed her whole life. And she's now absolutely certain that it was God talking to her.
And she's around people that don't believe. So it's a real interesting spot for her to be in.
It's profound. But I am not surprised it happened to you at 17.
When you, meaning that you heard, like you had a download like that, when you and I, one of our conversations we've had earlier in our friendship, I will never forget just like listening to you talk and you were saying a lot of things about me in this conversation. And I'm like, oh, wow.
Like you have, I feel like you're so deeply connected energetically, intuitively, spiritually, and you have this gift of seeing people. You have a gift of seeing people.
And I remember just being so inspired by that and also feeling so connected to you very fast, which is not normal for me because I felt like, oh, wow, this is a whole other situation of vibration. I was just like, you know, and it was really, um, so hearing that this, that you've, you know, kind of gotten downloads and been tuned in even before you knew what it was your whole life.
Um, not surprised at all by that. And I think, you know, seeing everything with Bumble, I know, um, I want to just touch on this really quick.
Cause there's going to be people that, you know, had an idea and they went for it and it didn't work or they, you know, oh my gosh, with it cosmetics, especially right before there were so many different things I tried and didn't work and no one, you know, all the things and it doesn't mean they weren't great ideas and it doesn't mean that, you know, the next thing you go for isn't going to happen, right? There's so many people that have sent their book out to 25 publishers. They've all said, no, does not mean the 26th one is not going to say yes.
And can you just touch briefly upon, you know, this idea of, you know, how can you use everything that you've gone through from your teenage years, through your time at Tinder, through coming out of all that, having that huge realization on the floor of how you're going to use it all for us collectively. It wasn't just the first idea that happened with Bumble, right? You had this other idea with Merci, and I just want you to touch on it so that people, because so many people listening and watching, they're only ever even going to know about Bumble, right? And think, oh, wow, Whitney had an idea.
It was easy. It just instantly happened.
But you've had many amazing ideas. And I think Merci was very cool.
And I know there was Moxie. There was other things, but can you share a little bit about that? Well, I think you've said it perfect.
It's like the 27th person might respond, right? And this is so, so the symbolism of your story is like, had you given up on the 1,000th time, right before that final yes, like if you had accepted the no, we wouldn't be here today. But there's a distinction here that I think is important for people.
I always ask people, what's the why? Like, why are you doing it? Like, what is the bigger, what can this do for people? Like, what is this solving? What are you solving for? And I think where a lot of people should ask themselves and get self-reflective when they have businesses, maybe it's not going the right way. I think I would encourage people to say, who is this serving? Who is this helping? Because I really do believe that every great innovation, every great business, every great breakthrough in medicine or in science, it's not driven out of randomness.
Most of it is driven out of some type of heartbreak or deep dissatisfaction. Someone knew somebody that tragically got sick with a rare disease and it destroyed their lives and it spurred them to go and, you know, find a cure.
And while they lost the person in their lives, which is devastating, maybe there's millions of people around the world in current day and in the future that will be spared because of that. And so I think intention, coming back to intention,

like why are you doing what you're doing? And I fundamentally believe that the right intention will give you energy. It won't take it from you.
So even though you're drained and even though that you're, you're exhausted by the nose, like you've got it in you to just go that one more step. It's the perseverance, right? It's having the purpose beyond me or I, or just my own needs.
And you're a perfect example of this. So I think my big push to anybody that feels like they're in setback and setback, if they can say with sincerity that what they're doing is serving the greater good of humanity, whether it's even only, you know, only 10 people a year are predicted to get this disease.
That is still important. Someone is still going to suffer without what you're doing, without the thing you're doing.
You got to keep going. But if you're doing it because you wanted to start a business and you wanted to make money, wrong.
Stop. Reset.
Why are you doing what you're doing? And that is my belief. Like there is no such thing worth fighting for that only serves ourselves.
That's my firm belief. So good.
I feel so strongly exactly what you just said. And I feel like our body tells us too, like if it's in alignment with what we're supposed to be doing.
And it's been an interesting journey having this show and this podcast, because there have been some incredibly fascinating people that have come on. And one thing I've learned is when someone comes on and they share something with the pure intention to get a bunch of press or get headlines, which is fine.

There's nothing wrong with that.

But if the underlying intention isn't to add value to the person listening at home or to have a shared experience or to make their life better or to be about something bigger than themselves, it's interesting how different it feels to me.

That's right.

Like you could feel it. In your tummy, yeah.
Yeah. And one takes your energy.
It doesn't feel good. And the other gives you so much.
Yeah. Has me jumping out of my seat because I know how many people is it's helping.
And it's, it's so interesting. I think too, like for everyone listening, that's how they know, are you in the right job? Are you in the right relationship? Are you, you know what I mean? Like, what is your, what do you feel like? Does it give you energy or is it, or not, you know, or not? Energy is everything.
I mean, we are literally made of it and there's things that take it and there's things that replenish it. And you know, it's interesting.
Bumble has been wildly covered in the media. And I cannot tell

you, Jamie, how many people have called me and been like, okay, what's your press strategy? Like, what agencies did you use? Like, who was the best person that like wrote your press releases? And I'm like, okay, let me be clear. Yes, we've had kick-ass people on our team.
this is the pure intention of the business. It wrote itself.
True, genuine intentionality behind anything, that is, it's the authenticity that actually matters. And so we started this conversation today.
You're like, you're an open book. How are you an open book? I'm telling you right now that authenticity is the only frequency for me.
Like you would just have to be authentic. And that doesn't mean you have to pour your heart out.
You can be guarded. You can be private.
I think we can all have our own boundaries for what work for us. That is, that's our prerogative.
And it's also our, our, um, our needs. Like we all have to define what works for us as individuals, but what I do think is going to come out in the coming years, and we're already seeing the shift with media, with influencers, with everything like authenticity can't be engineered.
It can't be written. It can't be faked.
It is genuinely, it has to be real. And that's why I always say like, take me with all my flaws, all my weaknesses, all of my scratches and, and, you know, all of the battle wounds, like you're going to get me at the end of the day.
And if that doesn't work for you, then like, that's okay. You know, this is the train I'm on.
This is where I'm going. And I think we should all just be trying to be our highest versions of ourselves.
It's interesting, Jamie, I wrote myself an email this summer. Um, Bumble stock had hit its all time low and the internet fodder was like, Bumble's dead.
And what a joke. And da, da, da, da.
I mean, like if I was attached to headlines or ego, it would have been a dark day. Let's just put it that way.
But I am so free of that now. I wrote myself an email and I said, today is one of the best days of my life because I can actually tell you with certainty because I'm living it.
Net worth, accolades, all the external things does not equal happiness. It does not equal self-worth.
And I wrote all the reasons why I'm happy. All the beautiful gifts.
My children are safe. They're healthy.
Thank God. I love myself, not because I'm a narcissist or I'm obsessed with myself, but because we all should love ourselves, because we should all give ourselves grace.
And we are enough. All of us are enough, each and every one of us, whoever we are and however we are.
And I think when you can actually just say that out loud, like all is okay. And I literally wrote that letter to myself on a day that should have been perceived as a bad day.
I got a hundred texts. Are you okay, babe? Are you okay? Can I do anything for you? And I'm like, I'm good.
I'm good. I'm outside.
I'm looking at the trees. Everything is fine.
So I think, you know, if we can all get to a place where we don't build businesses for the validation or the recognition, that's actually, first of all, when it comes, that's when you start getting recognized because you're not seeking it. It's exactly what you said.
You know, um, that's so powerful. That's such a good tool for everyone to put in your toolbox too, because it's, I think it's for so many people, a lifelong journey, if they've even started it yet, to realize those things and then to also just be like, okay, my self-worth is not attached to like external circumstances.
I want to talk to everyone at home right now who has a dream or an idea or, you know, a vision for something in the future.

And I feel and know that entrepreneurs, like we could take inspiration and, you know, and get ideas from some of the most, you know, varying of things. And can you share a little bit, Whitney, about your obsession with Disney growing up? Yes.
I was totally obsessed with Walt Disney, not Disney the brand. I loved the brand, but I wasn't obsessed with Disney in a traditional sense.
Let me explain that. I was obsessed with Walt Disney.
I was completely obsessed with Walt Disney. I was fascinated that a human being could use their mind and imagine something and create a dream world.
I was completely mesmerized by the capability of the human mind and then the ability of someone to execute on that. So I remember sitting in class as a little girl and I would do the same W as Walt Disney for my name, for Whitney Wolf.
And so I probably have a thousand notebooks from when I was a child, like elementary school, where I'm doing the same signature as Walt Disney, Whitney Wolf, because it was Walt with that W. And I wanted the same W.
I was like, what a magical creature.

My high school yearbook quote was, I don't have it memorized, but something like, if you can dream it, you can do it. Like this all started with a mouse and a dream, right? Something along those lines.
And I will say like, I've always been a dreamer, always been a dreamer. And I was just so inspired that someone could take a dream and what I like to call a download or an inspiration or whatever you want to call it.
Right. Um, and then really turn it into something that others can enjoy or get value from.
And so as I reflect now, as a 35 year old woman sitting here with you, the fact that the little girl drawing the Walt Disney signature can say that there's like babies out in the world that are running around and living in beautiful, sweet, happy families because of a product I helped create, you know, it's pretty, that's like pretty rewarding. And I know you have the same ability to say the same thing.
And so I guess the message I would have for people is like, I was just a little girl in Salt Lake City, Utah, trying to scribble my name after Walt Disney, like inspiration and mentors matter, like seeing things that inspire us matter. And so I think my point is like get inspired.

Watch this show with everybody you bring on.

Like, you know, read about people that have defeated their own odds.

And that energy does kind of impart on us.

And we can do it too.

Remember, this episode is not just for you and me.

Please share this with every single person you know because it can change their life too. Coming up, this conversation is so incredible, so transformative, and also so inspiring that we made it into another part.
And if you are ready to learn how to manifest new and meaningful friends, mentors, and relationships in your life, even if some of them haven't worked out so well in the past, you are not going to want to miss this part two with Whitney Wolf Hurd coming up in the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. If you loved today's episode, my only ask is you please click on the follow or subscribe button for the show on your app, give it a five-star rating or review, and then share this episode with everyone you believe in.
Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it. Post it and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons and inspiration in this episode today.
You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. And thank you so much for joining me today.
Before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy.
You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional

love in the world.

And it is an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

Here, I hope you'll come as you are.

Heal where you need.

Blossom what you choose.

Journey toward your calling and stay as long as you'd like because you belong here. You are worthy.
You are loved. You are love.
I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show.
Do you struggle with negative self-talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit.
The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful. And when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life-changing.
And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life. It's called Five Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk and Build Self-Love.
And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer.
It's time to rewrite the script of your life when filled with self-love, resilience, and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence, and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernlima.com slash resources, or click the link in the show notes below.
Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox from me.
If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl.
Subscribe at jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes. I am so excited for this book.
You know why? Because it's going to save so many people. It's going to save you.
Worthy, your new beautiful book Worthy. Get this book.
This book? I'm telling you. It's a book that can change anybody's life who picks it up.
Anybody who's ever felt that they were not good enough, didn't measure up, something's missing in your life. I have to tell you.
It's powerful. It's happening.
It's worth it. Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you.
I went from struggling waitress facing nonstop rejection to founder of It Cosmetics, a billion dollar company by learning how to overcome self-doubt and believe I'm worthy of my hopes and dreams. And I'm sharing how you can, too, in my new book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life.
If you're ready to truly trust yourself and break through that barrier of self-doubt and know that where you come from or even where you are right now doesn't determine where you're going, then worthy is for you. It's time to go from doubting you're enough to knowing you're enough.
It's time to step into all of who you are and into the person you were born to be. And it's time to believe that you are worthy of it.
Because in life, we don't become what we want. We become what we believe we're worthy of.
Join the Worthy movement today by grabbing your copy of Worthy anywhere books are sold. Then head to worthybook.com now for free gifts, including my five-part course on becoming unstoppable and my 95-page Worthy Workbook Action Plan that teaches you how to implement the tools from the book into your real life right now.
Worthy is groundbreaking. Yo.
Oh my God. Worthy, you are worthy.
This book is going to change lives. This book literally will teach you how to actually feel worthy so that you can have the strength, you can have the confidence.
The lessons in this book and the strategies will change your life. You will never be the same again after you read this book.
Jamie's book Worthy is a must read. It is going to inspire you, empower you, give you the hope that you need and the kick in the rear end that you deserve.
Jamie's book Worthy is incredible. The gifts are going away, but they're off free right now on worthybook.com.
It's such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not

intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach,

psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.