PMS 2.0 1390 - NFL Preseason Week 2 Recap, Ian Rapoport, Dan Orlovsky, Harry Douglas, Jeff Passan, & Darius Butler

Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Pat McAfee Show.

I am, of course,

not Pat McAfee.

Football!

Yes!

See, I did an elongated break so you guys would do it.

I tried to like tame it,

try to do it properly, but it was better.

You did good.

It was better than the previous times.

Yes, it was.

I am Ian Rappaport.

I am guesting for Pat today.

I am very, very, very happy to be here.

Pat is, of course, not here.

He is

parts unknown.

Abroad.

Yeah.

I have no idea.

TBD.

Could be literally anywhere.

Last time I was doing this, it was

doing some sort of WWE thing in a place overseas or something.

Maybe.

Drinking, I think, if I remember correctly.

I honestly have no idea.

Sounds about right.

But he is not here today.

I am here,

as are my good friends, Boston Connor, Ty Schmidt.

Thank you.

Tone Diggs.

and my second favorite cornerback that I've ever covered in the NFL okay

that's not true my favorite Darius Butler in the house is

actually who's your first who was the first oh Devin McCourty God dull yeah he put safety you

so

I've jumped back up

yeah

when

When I was in the Patriots locker room as a beat writer,

this is exactly why the people tuned in tonight.

Devin McCordy was a coroner who was getting toasted by

Stevie Johnson.

Steve Large.

Buffalo Beale.

Sure, yeah.

Right.

Oh, yeah.

And I remember having a really awkward conversation with him in the locker room, me not knowing anything, him being a literal NFL corner,

saying, have you ever thought about moving to safety?

And he was really offended.

That's crazy.

That's the worst thing you could say.

It was so, and I was, you know, probably 28 or something and wearing like an oversized plaid shirt, just looking ridiculous.

And he was so, but he's such a nice guy.

Oh, yeah.

Like, but, and then, of course, he goes on to be a great safety.

And I am the greatest football scout of all time.

Yeah, you put him on, you put, you put that little nugget.

He's a pro bowler, as a rookie at corner, too.

What?

Sophomore struggles, but he's a dog.

Uh, all right, I'm very happy to be here, as I said.

We had a great week of football, which I know you guys were locked in, as was I, mostly.

Oh, yeah, okay.

Spent some time on the phone talking about some various trade scenarios.

the Trey Hendrickson thing we're going to get to yeah there's a Micah Parsons thing we're going to get to

there's a Terry McLaurin thing we're going to get to there may be some quarterback news we'll see I know we got the Colts situation which according to Shane Steichen's kind of rounding to a close feels like

the Cleveland Browns situation is getting close to their Saints we'll see

usually I'm on the other side of this.

Usually you guys are like, Rap, I got a question for you.

So, I'm here.

What do you want to know?

I mean, the latest in at least this spectacle, and I'll ask about it just because it's, yeah, I feel as though the only real GM that's come out and said they'll trade a first-round pick now is Elliot Wolfe.

He's kind of the only guy, at least in New England, who's going out and

proclaiming, hey, we'll trade a first-round pick.

Is that for Trey Henderson or is it for someone?

Well, I mean, you're asking me.

I'm not, I'm asking rap.

I have no idea.

I'm assuming everybody's kind of on the table, but is this even real?

Like, is this a realistic, hey, we're going to trade a first-round pick?

Is he saying that because he wants all the other teams to kind of go away and so he can kind of slide in, or is this a reality where,

not including Micah, because I think everybody assumes if he does get traded that there will be a first and a second pick with Terry McLaurin and Troy Hendrickson, is there a real possibility that those guys are getting moved for first and second-round picks and players?

Yeah, so first of all, for Micah, it's going to be, if there is even a trade to talk about, which we'll see, we'll get to that, but it would be a lot, okay?

The Terry McLaurin would be not as much.

The Trey Hendrickson would be, from my understanding, a really good young player.

Like, we're talking like a starter, someone you don't have to pay right away.

Like,

like second-year-ish players, probably.

Yeah, like someone's...

first or second rounder from last year who's really good.

Yeah, sure.

Right.

Yeah.

And then a pick for next year.

Like it would be for sure expensive.

The Patriots have a young quarterback who I think is going to be really, really good.

This is the window.

Like you see teams load up.

So normally I'd kind of be like, ah, you know, teams open to everything.

I don't know, man.

Like Patriots seem open for business.

They seem to recognize that this is their window to do kind of what the Texans did, right?

Which is like, just we'll trade for Stephon Diggs and we'll just, we'll get, we'll pay because we will load up and we don't have to pay the quarterback yet.

But the commanders who are kind of in the exact exact same situation, just a much better team already, like, why

has it got to this point where, you know, because they went out and they did what you just said, they got Laramie Tunsell and Debo Samuel and all these other things.

Laramie Tunsell trade was like a that was a great example.

Yeah, but like why

was this on the horizon for a long time?

Like why wouldn't the commanders, you know, to your point, go all in while they have all these things like a rookie quarterback and, you know, momentum kind of, like, why is this happening?

I mean, they're trying to, but it's really just a disagreement disagreement of value.

So, Terry McLaurin wants like $33 million like DK Metcalf.

Okay, he's a little older, but same class, similar production, different type of receivers.

Yeah, which, like,

actually, all right, Deebut, since you're a resin expert, uh-huh.

Do you think, as someone who may or may not have had to cover people just like this, do you think that they are similar threats slash, I don't know about value, but similar threat.

Like, do you think they should be guys who should make make the same amount of money?

Yes, I would say similar value.

I understand the age difference.

Where Terry is, though, he hasn't missed a game, I believe, in like five years.

Crazy.

So, you know, being out there, we always say your best ability is availability in the National Football League, especially when we have a young quarterback.

And early in the season, Terry wasn't getting a bunch of targets and didn't become a problem or a loud voice or a quote-unquote diva like a lot of wide receiver ones do in the locker room.

So he kind of stayed the course, was patient, let them go out and do the other things, let him pay it.

But as far as threat-wise, DK is more of a big play threat.

Like any play can be a 60, 70-yard touchdown, but consistently, week in and week out, Terry McLaurin is going to show up and he's going to make those big-time plays.

And he is one of the best wide receivers in the National Football League at like the point of attack, like that moment of truth in the ball is air.

He has always been that guy.

So, him being around that DK number, it makes sense.

It makes sense to me, not only who he is on the football field, but in the locker room, in the community, everything you want, you know, for a leader of your team.

Yeah, I mean, so that's so that's the argument, right?

That's like, it's like they have tried.

The commanders are not there yet.

They want to pay him.

I just don't know.

Like, my guess, this is just a guess.

What do they want to pay him?

Like, how much?

Yeah,

what have they got to do?

So my sense is it's around or a little under 30.

So like if McLaurin wants 33 and the commanders want to pay him a little less, let's just call it.

Not a real number, but let's call it 28 and a half.

There's a deal to be made.

That's what T's making.

That's what T.

Higgins is making.

Right, okay.

So then, like,

let's say it's 29 above T.

That seems like a good deal.

Amon Raw's at 30.

Right.

And if I'm Terry McLaurin.

That's not a deal, what, two years ago?

Yeah.

Yeah, the Amon Ra they did before the Lions draft.

Right, but then if you're Terry's agent, you're like, well, hang on,

that's two years after.

Yeah.

Brandon Ayuk was last year.

That was at 30.

So, like, they both have arguments, but I think they are trying.

to do it.

And I think they're also in that all-in mode because they got, I mean, they got the lottery ticket, too.

Yeah, yeah.

So the commanders, you're saying, are more so like of the three, Micah, Terry, and Trey, like the Commanders and Terry are probably the closest of those three to actually getting a contract done because we've literally been talking about these three guys for five months.

And I love them so much because it gets us through so many shows.

And then when they get done, it's sort of like James Cook, we talked about, and they get done.

It's sort of like,

okay.

Here we go.

Let's go play well.

Yeah, go play.

But with like Hendrickson, like, why, why now?

Did they just assume that even after he wasn't there, that he was just going to play ball and be okay with everything?

Like, why have they waited until the 25th hour to finally be like, okay, we'll trade this guy now?

I mean, I guess, you know, maybe teams get more desperate and they're willing to give up a little bit more right before the season starts.

But like, this has been the exact same situation for

since he was on our show at Radio Row.

Like, this hasn't changed at all.

So, why is it all of a sudden now, like, oh, I guess he is serious and he really is unhappy and he's not going to play if we don't get him a new deal i mean i think the reason is because somebody needs something to happen like we are it's august 18th the season is two weeks away i don't have any answers about headline spur action right as a someone on twitter said yes

and i don't know what

the action is though and i think that's the problem is like One side needs to bend.

If another team comes in and says, like, hey, we're going to offer you a good player and a big contract and a pick next next year.

Maybe the Bengals go, all right, if we can weaken our team on the edge, but strengthen our team at guard, I don't know, whatever, whatever it is, tight end, who knows, whatever it is,

maybe that makes sense.

But I think the problem for the Bengals is they are good.

And if you're good, why do you trade a good player?

Same thing with the commanders.

Well, then why not pay the good player?

Yes,

that is the question.

I think the frustrating thing is like, this doesn't seem to me to be a deal that should be impossible.

Right.

The trade or the contract?

The contract.

Yeah, sure.

Like, he's going to get a big raise this year.

How much guaranteed next year and the year after is kind of what the question is.

And because TJ's deal is so good and Miles Garrett's deal is so good.

Crosby.

Crosby.

It's like, doesn't he deserve that?

Of course, the answer is yes.

But then where...

So is their asking price, though, like, ridiculous to the point that teams aren't even going to reach out just because because it's i don't so i don't think so we've done this before uh we've with clowney got done at the cutdown day right yeah

there's been a couple boza was weak of their first game tj was weak of yeah i think the contract not the trade the contract

i was thinking trade but yes no no trade i mean there it there is time and generally like that last week of the season when all I want to do is be at my

beach club hanging out, sunning myself.

These are generally the things that we will be dealing with.

We got a lot more to get to.

We all have more football stuff.

Oh, yeah.

We have someone on the line right now who has been ducking me on the golf course

for, I would say, more than a year.

More than a year.

We play at similar places.

I go to Connecticut sometimes to play with a good buddy of mine to lose to my buddies Russ and Brent.

Very annoying.

Orlofsky sometimes plays at a similar course and has been refusing to play with me.

Interesting.

Anyway, I just said his name.

Dan Orlofsky is here joining us.

Dan, why is he fucking me?

He doesn't want to play from the red.

I don't think you've, I don't, one, I don't think I've ever, I don't think you've ever invited me to play golf because

that's not true.

I would 1,000% take you up on it.

And three, I would feel very confident in playing against you.

Why did he have to say that last part?

I'm a yes.

Come to yes.

Why did he say that last part?

Well, he's just, I mean, he's an athlete.

He's a professional athlete.

I mean, you two just can't stand next to each other on the T-box.

So no, no,

yeah, no, you cannot.

The thing about guys like Dan is you watch him

so offensive.

Drive back to your box.

No, I was going to say, you'll have to, and then you'll have to drive 75 yards up to the red tee so he can deal.

I can hit it.

I can hit it a little bit.

I don't know where it's going, but I can hit it a little bit.

We fixed your swing, though, wasn't it?

My God.

Oralovsky, what's going on?

Thank you for hanging with us.

What's going on?

You watched

a slate of preseason games.

You watched a lot of interesting

quarterback situations.

We have all been kind of thinking about this in our brain over the last little bit.

What stood out to you first and foremost?

Like, what did you learn about quarterback play this weekend from, I think, let's start with one of the young guys who stood out for you.

Yeah, I'll go back to last night, you know, and the standout is coaching just matters so much.

And I'm not going to make like the,

oh my gosh,

Caleb Williams is going to go win MVP thing, but if we're just taking off of what last night was, we're going to, he's good enough to one day.

If we're just taking last night off, what it was,

he was flawless when it comes to what you wanted to see.

No one wanted to say, man, I don't know if Caleb's is athletic enough to go run around and make plays in the league, but it was...

holds the ball too long, doesn't really get the ball out on time,

is constantly, you know, hitching in the pocket, not seeing it and trusting it and letting it go.

That wasn't the case last night.

And there was a confidence, there was a conviction.

You know, I looked at it and I said he threw the ball 10 times.

Two of the throws were throwaways.

One of them was a bootleg.

So for the seven throws that he threw within the pocket, six of them were either on his first hitch or no hitch at all.

Wow.

That tells me he's seeing it.

That tells me he's confident.

That tells me he knows what he's doing with the football.

And is there a reality of like, yes, that number one option was open often?

For sure, but that's not his fault.

So then the coaching, you sit there and go, man, that was good.

The one time when he got to his second hitch, he got to the second part of the progression.

So overwhelmingly

hopeful and confident, impressed by what I saw last night from Caleb and just the man, that coaching matters.

Is there Buffalo's playing as basic coverage as they can play reality to that?

Yes.

I mean, that was the most basic coverage he will see all season, but he did his job.

And so the takeaway is, man, that coaching just matters.

And tip of the hat to them, and we'll see where it goes from there.

I'm still sitting there saying it's going to take a long period of time for the ownership and the mastering of it.

You know, going to Cleveland, I was really impressed with what Shadora did last week.

I was equally, if not more impressed with what Dylan Gabriel did this weekend.

I thought Gabriel was awesome.

Yeah, I thought his tape was great.

He made some really tight coverage, elite ball placement throws.

I thought he moved in the pocket really well.

They went under center, something he didn't do a ton at Oregon.

I don't think the interception's all on him.

Yes, he, at the end of the day, makes the final decision, but there's a lot that goes into that ball being picked off, let alone a pick six.

The fumble I do put on him, but just some tight coverage throws that you're sitting there going, man, that's that's really, really, really good ball placement versus coverage.

That's pretty good.

So I thought he was really interested.

I think it makes the decision-making even more interesting in Cleveland.

And I think it's going to be, by all reports, Joe as the starter.

But it feels like, like, who do they name as QB2?

Like, who's going to be QB2 then?

Yeah.

Um,

I'll go to Indy.

Uh, I was really impressed with Anthony, and I can't quote Anthony Richardson for some reason, man.

I just,

man, believe ours.

We're believe ours.

Believe ours.

You know, just physically, he looked really good and played fast and the ball went to the right place often.

So,

you know, I don't know what they're going to do, but

it's hard for me to not name him the starting quarterback if I'm Shane Steichen.

Wow.

That was

going to be my follow

for you, Dan.

Out here in Indy, obviously, that's the biggest thing.

We made a signer with Xavier Howard, but the quarterback, naming QB1 is the hugest thing we're going into this season.

What did you see?

preseason from both of these guys that will make an argument for either one to be QB1.

I know you say you don't want to quit, you know, AR.

We We believe ours for sure.

We don't believe ours.

But what are you going to do?

Where are you at?

What you need to see from either one of these guys be named a starter?

I go back to week one, okay?

So against Baltimore.

I thought Daniel was sharp.

I thought Daniel got the ball because like D.

Butt, they got really talented guys, right?

On offense, there's three or four guys.

Man, Downs is really good, and A.D.

Mitchell is really good.

And Hittman's obviously a really big-time player.

And then they got Mo Alley Cox, and then Warren looks at you.

You're like, just get him the ball.

I thought Daniel did that in week one versus Baltimore relatively sharply and then Anthony had the moment of the fumble and you're like God bless dude just freaking figure it the freak out yep and you get that small body of work and then this past week you know this past weekend I watched Daniel you know first quarter 828 misses a touchdowns first quarter 403 misses a touchdown um you know I thought the ball down the sideline first quarter 208 to Warren nice throw and so yeah this ball nice throw guys wide open but nice throw okay and then Anthony I go good out, good keeper, really good sale,

really nice clean stop, played fast, 40 yards,

a 40-yard throw, the elite throw with 111 in the second quarter.

So I'm just, I thought Anthony was really impressive this past week.

And I think, D-Bud, I settle on this, and I don't know the building enough, well enough.

If you name Daniel, do you lose Anthony?

If you name him, do you lose him?

Should that and then the reality of like,

is that, I mean, I.

If they're even, right?

Because even on the other side, like, if you start AR, can you ever go away from them then?

Because then you lose them mid-season.

We always said the locker room knows because we only see the preseason games, which are, you know, it's a glorified live scrimmage practice.

But the guys see both of these guys take reps at the ones, reps at the twos.

You see them in and out of the huddle.

You see him interact with, you know, coaches and players and just every, you see the whole thing.

So when Shane names the starter, it shouldn't be a surprise to to the locker room.

It should be maybe some people outside.

But inside that locker room, Anthony knows either he won the job or he lost.

And the same thing with Daniel.

So as the head coach, when you're making that, that's why you're getting to pay the big bucks.

It's also, D-butt, it's also the variable of

he

needs to play.

And so if you name Daniel the starter,

like my thought is you're kind of saying, all right, we're moving on for a moment.

Because if you're naming Daniel the starter, you're naming Daniel the starter in the hopes that he plays well enough that your guys are winning games and you're a competitive football team and he's the guy for the year.

Well, then you're not, Anthony's going into year four

without playing football.

We're having a Trey Lance situation then all over again.

And so I'm happy that I don't have to make the decision because, like, there's parts of me that sit there and see it in a lot of different ways.

Man, I want to go to, I want to go to Tone in a second, but I think you're right, Orlovsky, and like this is part of the issue is it should be

who's the best quarterback, play the best quarterback.

That's not, I mean, these things don't exist in a vacuum.

And so it's like,

like if you, let's say Daniel's a starter, then to me, it's like, it's over.

Like Anthony Richardson is at some point going to be on another team.

He is going to beat Trey Lance.

Like that's, it's the reality.

It sucks.

And I agree he needs to play.

And I kind of would like to see him play.

But if that's what's best for the team, then I think that's what Steichen has to do.

But it is not like these decisions do not, unfortunately, exist in a vacuum.

Ton, go ahead.

Yeah, Dan, I had a question for you because I saw you guys talking about it this morning, but we were prepping for the show, so I didn't really get to hear what you said.

You guys were running the highlights of Justin Fields, and it didn't look great this weekend, and there's been reports out of camp that it hasn't looked incredible.

Because I know you've always been a Justin Fields believer, and I was last year as well.

Has it reached a point where like, hey, this needs, we're like, he needs to prove himself right now?

What have you seen so far?

Yeah, Justin was really disappointed the other night.

I don't think he saw coverage.

It was like he just got the ball and threw it instead of trying to read.

He played slow.

And my one thing with Justin as a passer that has always been frustrating is physically, it just takes a long time for the ball to get out of his hands.

That's why he's never been a quick game guy.

Go back to the first start, you know, when they called a bunch of quick game and I'm like, what is going on?

So that really hasn't grown, which is one thing that as a pastor, I would like to see.

I think he sees progressions fine.

I think there's enough accuracy and all that.

It just, come on, man.

Physically.

So the other night was frustrating.

The only thing I would say, Tone, is this.

And while frustrating and I don't want to say concerning,

I would be really surprised if this is the offense schematically they rolled out with in New York.

Agreed.

yeah like they they haven't done anything when it comes to zone read very little rpo zone read stuff that we see out of some athletic quarterbacks very little non-designed quarterback read a run and that should be the case you would never want to show your hand in the preseason of what you're going to do so i'm in i am holding off a little bit of like dude this could be a situation where you know he's going to get 10 carries a game and they're going to be in the gun running all this zone read and the combination of stuff that we see with Lamar and Jaden Daniels and Kyler Murray and Josh Allen and so like if they're gonna do that I'm not as

doom and gloom there's one way for the Jets to play this year it's gonna be great defense run the football 40 45 times a game don't get down by 10 they get down by 10 I think they lose so I'm not pressing the caution button button or the panic button right now just because I don't think what we've seen for them scheme-wise is who they're going to be.

And this is why the preseason is so, I love it.

I really love watching football, even if it's preseason football, but like, I don't know what I'm watching because you're like, is this the fake offense or the real offense?

And obviously we'll see, but like, I would agree that if this is what it is, then they're going to have to play some very, very good defense.

Ty Schmidt, question.

Yeah, Dan, I'm sure people are probably sick and tired of hearing this, but at what point do you think the Stafford concerns become like legitimately real?

Because it seems like, again, you know, every week, hey, he's fine.

If he had to play week one or if he had to play tomorrow, if it was a playoff game or whatever, he's going to go.

But the more this carries on and we have questions about it, like it seems like something is definitely going on here and he's not getting any younger and a back isn't exactly a good thing for a quarterback.

Like, if you had to put this on a scale of one to ten, how concerned would you actually be with Stafford's back injury?

Right now, I'm a

as one, like, I don't have have concern.

Oh, wow.

You told me.

Wow.

I don't.

I don't.

From what I know, from what I know, this is not a

functional thing or a capability thing.

It's just a, like a pain management, pain tolerance thing.

I think that everybody knows he's like the toughest person on the planet type of thing.

So that's not something that gives me cause for concern.

Now, if it gets to next week,

because like I think the perspective, and

D-Butt, you would know this well too: is dude, that season and that one game they added makes this season so long.

I know it's only one game, but it makes it so long.

And this is one of those teams that's probably in the handful that, like, they don't think they could play into late January.

They expect to play into late January.

And so, you know, trying to keep that long-term vision of we want him as healthy as possible in December and January.

So now if he doesn't practice by next week, yes, my concern level would go up.

But right now,

I just,

I'm, I'm not overly concerned with it.

That's why, I mean, from the outside looking in, that's why I'm so concerned because of who Stafford is and you, you spent time around him, you know, as a teammate, but I just know these types of things.

There are things that Dan has seen that probably vet.

Yeah, but like these franchise quarterbacks, like, I know it's a long season, but they don't like missing reps.

Yeah.

And if you're talking about a pain tolerance or a pain thresher, like, that's like, that's like Andrew Luck, for instance, he was one of the toughest guys I ever played with.

So when he started missing time and it was like, oh, he'll be back, but okay, it's an ankle, it's a calf.

That was like early on.

It was like concerned.

Every day, every full practice he missed, it became more and more of a concern.

I have that same feeling with Matt.

I know he's not a spring chicken, but these reps are valuable, especially getting new weapons.

And every year it's a new team, but you got Devontae Adams.

Like, you want to get on the same page with that guy.

So I'm concerned, especially when hey, he's going to practice this day and then he doesn't.

Saturday workout, then it's kind of murky.

I'm concerned

until he gets out there, and hopefully it's a bunch of nothing.

But yeah, I'm concerned about Non because he has been.

We also,

Debut, we also don't know

who is the end-all be-all and why he's not practicing.

Is this Stafford going i can't practice today is this them going hey there's no need for you to practice yeah you know like who's the person deter because i do agree with your point of like these guys want to be out there like and and he's one of those people that loves being out there but we don't know if it's him saying no we don't know if it's sean we don't know if it's the doctors we we don't know the the person that's making the final determination of saying, okay, you're not going on in the field today type of thing.

And so that I agree with that point.

I'm just not overly concerned right now.

Maybe, you know, I'm jaded with my- Are you not overly concerned because you saw Stetson raising hell out there this weekend?

Certainly hello.

Hey, actually, hey, let me interrupt for a second.

Let me interrupt.

We have, I don't know if this is breaking news or not, but the Rams have just posted a little video.

Matthew Stafford is now back at practice.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

So, Dan, good job.

I'm down to a one.

Yeah,

I'm a one as well.

And I mean, there it is right there.

That's great work right there.

I mean,

that looks like a relaxed, chill dude who's going to have a nice casual day at practice.

And, you know, the Rams have been sort of providing updates on this, and it's been interesting to hear because it's like he's going to throw.

He threw a lot, then didn't practice that week, and then wouldn't really say if he was going to throw Saturday.

And my understanding of this was like,

we just want to get some improvement, just like a little bit of improvement, and then he can get back out there.

Now he is back out there, so that is, I mean, if you're a Rams fan, or I don't know, let's just say someone who you're good friends with Matthew Stafford,

this is a very, very good sign right now that he is walking back to practice.

Yeah, I just, and I, Ian, I think like,

D, but you grew up in the organization, but like, I remember our time in Indy, and he, you know, a much greater player than I was there, type of thing.

But like, I remember when Peyton and them were in their heyday,

how they approached the offseason was directly correlated individually-wise, to how many snaps that person played in the previous season.

So like if you were a guy that played X amount of snaps, you were allowed organizational mandate to start your offseason training at a certain date.

And then if you played 150 snaps more, you started your offseason work X amount of days later.

And if you played X amount of snaps more, and so they kept pushing it because their whole philosophy was they were a team that fully believed that they were going to be playing 18, 19, 20 games.

And so they wanted your offseason to start later because they knew your season was going to start later and then in turn go into the next season.

So I just think it's an organization that has this mindset of where they are.

They know that this year is an all-in year.

They know that.

And they know they can win the whole thing.

And so

they could ruin January by doing too much in August.

And you can't really ruin anything else by starting late.

That's a great call.

And really, we have seen teams treat this thing differently with the 17 game because they have so much time.

And like, I was there for Cowboys Rams joint practice.

The Rams defense should be, it feels like to me, comically good.

So this is a very, very good team.

Boston Connor has a question for you.

Yeah, Daniel, you mentioned I'm kind of expecting to play into late January, early February.

And, you know, granted, this is kind of just an opinionated question.

August 18th is essentially the worst day of every year when it comes to the preseason.

We're halfway through.

We really haven't seen enough.

And then also, we aren't at actual football yet, so it's just one of those things.

August 18th does.

How do you feel about this?

I've always hated this day.

Just being totally honest.

Some people think it's a great day.

Do they?

I haven't heard that.

Stephanie Lesher thinks it's a great day.

No, no.

I mean, it's not like it's a bad day.

It's just when we're talking about fodder, like this is the worst day of the year by far.

But

to be honest, I'm kind of missing whatever you guys are talking about.

But

when it comes to the, you know, we'll just stay on the west coast, even in that division, Dan, it feels like the Niners are one of those teams that people have kind of forgotten about.

And then you think of teams like the Raiders, where, you know, Geno Smith, who's played really good football, and people aren't really talking about them because of the Chargers and Broncos and Chiefs and things like that.

But what do you think of those types of teams that aren't getting as much conversation, but definitely could turn out to be, you know,

11, 12 win type of team.

Do you think the Niners are going to be back to that?

Do you think some of these teams, like the Raiders, like the, I mean, Seahawks, even in that division as well?

That's the team.

That looked very different.

Yeah, so

I'm going to start geographically.

So I think two teams that probably have not been talked about enough that I think are going to be really good teams are Seattle and Arizona.

I think Seattle is going to be awesome, man.

Clint Kubiak, new offensive coordinator,

and in preseason, they looked fantastic.

Just what I watched them present the other night, It looked like a complete offense when it came to changing the snap count, shifting in motioning, different variations in the run game, changing the launch point of the quarterback, different pass games when it comes to sometimes they're trying to get the ball out quickly.

Sometimes they're trying to push the ball downfield.

Sometimes we want a play action concept.

So I watched that and I'm going like, man, they look, that looks to be a team that's under control.

I think their defense secondary-wise will be fantastic once again.

So Seattle looks to be for a team for me.

Everyone's talking about, and I'm one of them, Rams, NFC West Division favorites, and I still, excuse me, feel that way.

But I think Seattle is going to be very much so in that conversation.

Arizona is going to be really difficult to play against.

I think Arizona with Jonathan Gannon just has an edge to them that is going to be like physical.

They're going to play violent football.

Sometimes when I watch their tape of defense last year, I go, I have no idea what this defense is doing in a way that's going to be a good idea.

They got a good young coordinator, man.

Yeah.

And like they were hurt last year at the defensive line position with their young, I think, Robinson, who they took out of Missouri.

He's healthy this year.

They signed sweat.

It's Marvin Harrison's second year.

So like, I think Arizona's a player in that division as well.

So those are two teams.

The Raiders, yes.

Gino, I'm a huge fan of.

Brock Bowers is awesome.

I still have concerns about the offensive line.

I still have concerns about the defense.

The 49ers, I'm a little hesitant on, man.

I am.

I am.

I want to see how Brandon Ayuk is when he comes back, when he comes back.

Jennings has got a contract situation and some health situation that's going on.

That offensive line has been depleted.

That's the thing that probably hasn't gotten enough notoriety when it comes to the fall off of some of their talent.

Their offensive line

took some significant shots.

That defense has lost a lot of talent.

So,

you know, obviously, I have a tremendous amount of respect for who they've been and who they're going to continue to be as far as long term.

I don't know if they bounce back as quickly as maybe public perception has them.

I still think I'm a little bit hesitant to see what they're going to be.

That's interesting.

And I think you're right.

You rightly point to the offensive line as like, all right, if a team is going to falter a little bit, like let's say the Raiders, who I think are going to be better or the 49ers, like that's where the focus goes.

Dan, you have been awesome.

We appreciate you.

I just have one one last thing before we let you go.

Yes, sir.

Do you have any plans for today?

Are you going to just like do you want to anything interesting going on today?

No, I'm working from like seven to ten tonight.

So

are you really?

Oh my god, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah,

long day.

Long day.

Long day.

No, no, no.

Nothing interesting is going on.

Sure.

Shweep.

Shaweeb.

Shawee.

That feels like a present, maybe.

Yeah.

I would love a present.

We We don't have a present, but we do wish you happy birthday.

Happy birthday.

Happy birthday.

Happy birthday, Dan.

Happy year one.

Appreciate you.

I waited till the last possible minute because birthdays are still a little bit weird because we're all grown, but I'm very happy for you for your 32nd birthday.

And you were awesome.

And thank you very much for having me.

32?

He's 32, yeah.

I assume he's 32, right?

He looks it.

34.

Well, whatever.

42.

Jeez.

42.

That's soft.

Can you imagine quarterback at 42 still?

I can't.

No, dude.

No.

No.

I say it.

No, no, you can't.

No, you can't.

Well, no, not me personally, but I'd root for it.

But I'd root for one.

I don't know how he does it.

God bless him.

We just saw you spinning.

God bless you.

Yeah.

You gotta be 40.

Yeah, you embarrass everybody else, remember?

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

Goodbye, Dan.

I can't stand you.

Take it easy, brother.

Do you think he was wondering if we were going to wish him happy?

He must have been, right?

I can't believe that.

How long he does we're here to talk ball?

No.

You're right.

He had had to be the whole time.

He was like, are they going to say it?

Had to be.

A vet.

Maybe.

No, Dan seems like the guy he would have squeezed a Michael Scott in there if he really had to.

And been like, hey, Connor, I didn't know it was your birthday today, too.

I think that would be kind of the move.

Oh, it's not?

Oh, okay.

So it's not fun.

Yeah.

You had an interesting reaction to something he said.

Which was when he was talking about the Jets about how they're not actually running their offense, you kind of perked up a bit.

Is that happening around the league right now with some of these teams it does and like so i had the same reaction to him like you see justin fields you watch the jets you're kind of like all right like and i know it is

i think for jets fans they went all in with rogers it worked out obviously how it all worked out feels like a small bit of a reset or a big bit of a reset so big like as far as what i'm expecting like if they win seven games i'd be like Very solid.

No doubt.

Very solid.

But then, you know, you watch them and you're kind of like, all right like that wasn't great but their offensive coordinator supposed to be really good fields I personally felt last year like should have probably kept starting I don't know that's what I felt I would have liked to what do you think

yeah at the time I thought he at when I go back to week seven or whatever it was I thought he should have yes so but then Russ played really well for those first six weeks and then he fell apart but yes so you could look back on it but yes I remember at that time week seven being like yeah let's just keep this going and that was kind of what I was.

And so, like, you know, I think they should be better, but then you're watching them and you're like, they're not.

And so what I never know, and this is why the preseason can be so frustrating, is like, what am I actually watching?

Yeah.

Practice.

Like, right, but it's like Caleb goes out and plays.

I mean, I'm with damn, like, he looked good.

Like, that was, when I was at Bears Camp, it was a struggle.

Like, I know he was dealing with a lot.

They intentionally gave him a lot.

And I like, you know, it was sort of like, let's see what he can deal with.

and then we'll narrow it down as we get closer and I'm kind of like how is this gonna look better and then you look last night and it really looked better I mean these are some good throws great decisions decisive but then it's sort of like what am I actually watching yeah Dan said it man like we all know it coaching like it matters but like this shit is it's hard you know it's tough to like especially you talk about a guy like Justin Phillips like he's on another team another offense so you're you're learning a different language so um yeah everyone has the ability.

Everyone that goes out there and trots out of the tunnel with a helmet on has the ability to play whatever position they're assigned to play.

But actually learning that, creating a relationship, creating a rapport with your play caller, your weapons, all these different things.

You look around the league at all the good quarterbacks.

A lot of them have some type of continuity with the play caller or the system in place.

So when you're going and jumping around from place to place, like that's tough.

That's a lot.

to handle.

So I appreciate, you know, Ben Johnson coming and putting a lot on his plate and then kind of trimming it down.

And Caleb, we know he has the ability, but the you want to just react out there.

You know, you don't want to be thinking and so it's tough, man.

I hope he figures it out.

All these guys who are in new plates, Sam Darner, he's over in Seattle, Gino, like all these guys are in new places, so it is a lot on their plate.

But, you know, hopefully the arrows still point up.

Yeah, like even Rogers.

You wonder with Aaron if they had some sort of agreement.

Like when you know, clearly the Steelers knew that Aaron was going to be the QB.

You wonder if Aaron was aware of the offense or, you know, how long he's actually must have been i mean i know there are rules but like he can still he can go study arthur smith stuff he's smart enough he can figure it out right yeah and because when you talk about having a lot of offenses like how many ocs has rogers had in the last three years yeah like with the but with the jets i mean i mean hackett was the oc when he first started there and that feels like it was oh my gosh 15 years ago at this point with the entire situation.

So if the Steelers come out on fire, you might look at that

and think to yourself like, damn, we really do have the smartest coaches F in the history of football.

Yeah, I can see it.

I can really see what that is.

I mean, I

spent some time with Arthur when I was at training camp there, and

he's the best.

He was in a very good place.

Also, still rocking the mustache, which I blame you guys for that.

What do you mean?

What do you mean?

You don't want it to be?

No, I'm just saying, like, I thought that that was just kind of like a fun thing, like a Movember.

Wasn't that why?

So he was doing it as the Falcons coach, yeah yeah yeah but then that but then he realized he looks incredible with yeah and then he shaved it and he was like well this dog won't is that i need i need to throw that thing back foxy is that a video uh of artie because did you see the he was making waves you see what he was singling in this weekend that's a that's that's the best play in the playbooks

i would like to know more on this the next play

they no they scored a touchdown on that they did score a touchdown on the next play a lot of good a lot of good memes i thought it was a hurry up so sad

I think it might have been.

But going back to your point about Fields and the preseason, that's why

it's important, but it ultimately doesn't matter because after the Packers game, people were acting like he was Warren Moon.

He had that one drive, and it was like, oh, my God, look how good this guy looks.

And I think he knows, too, and they're not going to do it in the preseason.

Like, if the Jets are going to be their most successful version of the team, he's going to have to be a weapon with his legs, and he's probably going to have to rush for a thousand yards.

And they're obviously not going to have him

taking a bunch of hits and running a a bunch of keepers and read option and all that kind of stuff in the preseason so like the book's still out on him but it's week to week you know i mean i said this on friday with caleb like if he played the way he did last night obviously everyone was going to say this guy's unbelievable it's working ben johnson's unbelievable if he would have played terrible last night he would have been getting killed today and it would have been like hey this guy is not going to work with ben johnson his his offense is too complicated he doesn't get it he you know he can't you know check check his his attitude at the door all that kind of stuff like it's so week to week.

Like, we really, we're not going to know any of this stuff until week one.

Correct.

It's good he played well, too, because the bag man is a problem.

The bag man is a problem.

Their bagman attacks.

Tyler Bajin is legitimate.

Did you hear what Ryan Paul said?

He's like, nobody works harder than Tyson Bajin.

Nobody works harder than that.

Except for his father, Baby.

Except for his father, who humiliated Tom Pellisero on NFL Network.

Did he arm wrestle Tom?

I take full credit for it.

Have you never heard the story?

No.

It was at the Senior Bowl, wasn't it?

It was at the Senior Bowl.

So we were out

on like a a Tuesday or something.

Compound fracture.

Literally, it was.

Couldn't play the bass for two months.

Broke his heart.

Broke his heart was the worst thing.

I mean, that was the humiliation was the worst thing.

So we were out having some drinks

the night, like on a Tuesday night or whatever.

We run into Tyson Mason's agent and his dad.

And so I'm like, you know what you should do?

Because Tom, here it is right here.

Because Tom's our silent reporter for Senior Bowl.

I'm like, you should arm wrestle Tom.

And Tom kind of laughs.

I'm like, no, you should actually.

Now, I didn't know that this guy was basically like a WWE superstar with the mic.

Like, I had no idea.

But the humiliation here, like, at some point, he just starts like laughing.

And look at Tom.

He had like, I think he went two hands at one point.

There he goes, right?

Yeah.

How many times have you watched this?

200?

I mean, so many.

Like, literally, so many.

And then Tom's face is like, you think he'd think it's funny?

Does not think it's funny.

He's like, look, give me the mic.

Give give me the mic give me the mic yeah i take full guys laughing what was was was tom expecting to go in there and like go over the top like you know sylvester stallode and break his arm and be come on so i think he is lincoln hawk

no you never know but like don't you think that he thought he would be able to like maybe move it like a no no no no you do not think

the guy's like a seven-time national champion no

Are you kidding me?

Of course not.

But I liked that Pelosaro thought he was going to go in there and going to i'm going to be i'm going to win yeah

i do like that can we do i like that a lot can we uh finish uh ask rap since uh it got cut off earlier by dano yes yeah uh i want to go back to micah parsons because uh over i can't remember if it was friday or over the weekend but ricky the dog uh on twitter report and he's usually he's got his sniffer up to things and hello he was very mean yeah mean to me on twitter recently well yeah hey that's the insider game sometimes you know it's vicious but uh there were reports that of all the teams out there, like the Packers actually put together somewhat of a serious package or were interested and they called the Cowboys and said, hey, let's do this.

Is there any truth to that?

And if Parsons does end up getting dealt, do we have any kind of timeline?

And is the expected package it would take to receive him kind of like what it was when the Bears traded for Khalil Mack?

Yeah, okay.

Let's start with the last part.

I do believe that would be the offer.

Now, I think for Mack, it was like a one, a future two with a pick going.

Like it was, I remember at the time being like, this is the biggest trade I've ever seen.

It was, for a player, it was, it was massive.

And that was, I mean,

it was two massive.

Was it two ones and then a two

first round picks, a third-round pick, and a sixth-round pick to the Raiders?

The Raiders also received a 2020 second-round pick and a conditional 2025-round pick.

And did they swap?

Did they swap as well?

Yeah,

the Los Angeles Chargers for a 2022 second-round pick.

Yeah.

Okay, so it was two ones with a two, two ones plus with a two coming back, which is like, like, look, if the Cowboys are going to trade Micah Parsons, like, that's what it's going to be.

It's going to be all of the picks.

Um,

I don't believe that the Cowboys have received any official offers because I don't believe that they have accepted or engaged with anyone.

Okay.

Okay.

Because to have it, I mean, you could, I was going to say, fax over an offer.

You could text over an offer if you wanted to.

I don't believe it's gotten there because teams usually don't make offers until they know that, like, we're talking.

I would expect that the Packers would be among the teams interested.

And I would say, I would expect the Packers would be among the teams really interested.

They have paid Jordan Love.

They have a bunch of really good young players, but they haven't, there's some guys like Quay Walker.

They have not paid Dak Dom they paid, but

they have money to spend, and they are really good.

And so like, that's the kind of team that I would say, if Micah was going to be traded, that he'd be going to, because it's like, we need one final piece.

This guy is an absolute dog.

He's worth all the money, so pay him all the money.

I mean, God only knows what Mulageda would make that contract.

It'd be all of it.

But it'd be worth it because you'd get Micah Parsons.

And there'd be some other, like, think of all of the really good teams, playoff teams, who have money and a spot.

Like, there's a lot of them.

It's like, those are the teams that'll be interested, all of the teams.

We were talking about Jerry a little bit last week.

Is Is there any sort of sense that he has lost it whatsoever when it comes to the business side of it?

Because someone actually released the amount of money he lost by waiting for Dak and waiting for CD.

And it's like $65 million over, you know, two different deals.

Like, is there any sense of that?

Like, is there any sense of Steven Jones becoming more serious?

I forget who we had on the show.

Maybe it was Traeger.

Oh, it was Swagu.

And Swagu basically was like, hey, we need to just, the Cowboys need to completely separate the two when it comes to front office stuff and then like the Cowboys stuff, like the tours and the practices and things like that.

Like Swagu.

I'm just laughing, thinking of Jerry giving tours.

Yeah, exactly.

But that was Swagu's point, which would actually be an amazing, like, Jerry giving a tour of the stadium was.

People would pay top dollars.

Yeah, that sold out for months.

Absolutely amazing.

Count me in on that.

But is he like, is there any sense like that?

Like, is Stephen Jones?

Is that plan already kind of in place?

Is that going to happen sometime soon if this keeps going terribly wrong?

So I think it is happening.

I think Stephen Jones and Will McClay are, now, you know, there's sort of an eye roll, I'm sure, because it's like the son of an owner, but Stephen Jones is very smart, very well-versed, great at personnel, and very good at value and like figuring out, like dealing with the organization.

You know, you'd call him the president, you'd call him the COO, which is his actual title, whatever.

Those guys have been basically in charge as the Cowboys have built themselves into a like draft and develop pay your guys organization.

But I just

Jerry is the boss.

And until he decides for himself that he is not going to be, he is the boss.

Do you think other GMs like right now though are thinking like, oh, this guy's gettable now?

Like if there's ever a time to go do something like this, like now's the time to do it because Jerry's kind of got his.

Because it never happens.

Yeah,

exactly.

No, because I don't think, first of all, you're right.

Like, no players this good are available ever ever like and that's why the the trade value is so crazy it's like even stafford like when he was traded like the it was like two ones and they threw in a golf which is ridiculous but that's what it was it's like these guys are never available so yes i think teams are like oh my god could we get micah parsons but then you talk to these teams or you talk to the cowboys talk to people involved and it's sort of like he ain't going nowhere they don't talk like he's going like the Cowboys have not engaged.

They have not said like.

Yeah, but exactly.

And like, you just said it, they, they've turned themselves into, you know, like a draft, grow your players, take care of them.

Like, sure, they've, they, they are that, but, like, they do it wrong.

We just talked about Amon Ra getting paid $30 million a year, and that looks like the cheapest wide receiver deal of all time.

Like, the Lions are a team that do that.

They

draft and develop, and then they pay, and then they save money because of it.

Like, the Cowboys are the opposite of that.

They don't pay guys, they make it a huge stink, and then it gets done.

Like, see, we're a year removed from CeeDee Lamb having Hollywood Brown and Kyler Murray as his, you know, profile picture, whatever the hell it was.

And people thought he was going to Arizona.

Like,

that's what happens with the Cowboys every single year.

So, like, CeeDee Lamb never made sense to me.

I mean, a lot of them don't.

None of them do.

None of them do.

I mean, Dak Prescott

had his leg cramp up on the field, and then he got paid after.

It was like, if you're going to franchise tag

your quarterback, the future of your franchise, the reason you do that is just in case they have some

terrible, terrible injury.

Because then you don't have to pay the guy a ton of money.

And that's exactly what happened.

But then they paid Dak, you know, a massive contract anyways after he got hurt.

Like, it just doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, I mean, I think

the way the Cowboys see it, and it sounds, I hate to say this, sounds weird explaining it because

this would not be, I would do things more like the Lions do it.

No doubt.

Like, and even now, like, you know, whenever they engage on Aiden Hutchinson, like, I expect it to be a deal where it's going to be a lot.

Everyone will be like, oh my God, I can't believe they paid.

And then Michael will come in higher.

Like, they are generally very, very proactive.

But I think what the Cowboys think is like, all right, if we pay him early, that's just more money we pay early.

Let's keep the money in our pockets as long as possible, pay him when we have to, pay him.

And like, if we have to pay a little more, we have more information.

That's generally the thought, but, like,

that does cost him a little more.

Does the locker room care, Botsy?

I mean, it is good for, I think,

just the overall morale.

And, like, the, we always talk about the buzzword culture.

So, like, how like how the Eagles do business.

Like, hey, you know, you guys, you do your job, you come in, you're good in the field, you're good in the locker room, you get paid.

Saquon, you get a bump.

George, I was going to say, that's Lane Johnson.

Don't you think that Saquon contract, everybody was like, oh, yes, and you look at him like,

that's second contract.

that's Saquon.

You know what I mean?

And that's how I'm sure everyone views Micah in the Dallas locker room because even last year when they were pretty much out of the playoff run, Dak was hurt.

He was still out there, you know, playing hurt.

CD Lamb, who just got paid, he was still playing hurt.

So I credit that a lot to Mike McCarthy, who's there as well.

But

to Jerry's credit and to Steven's credit, they do draft well.

They find good players and they just pay them late.

Jerry's, in his mind, it's like, okay, if I pay him early, I guess guess you're getting one year closer to that next deal anyway if it's gonna be a guy so you're gonna end up paying them big time money they paid javon diggs early i think in his third year he was a second round pick but you know micah's third year yeah he's one of the the easy guys i feel like he's done everything right from the beginning he's been an all-pro defensive player of the year candidate every year like just pay just get that one done because he you He's not going there.

You have his leverage.

You have his rights for the next three years, fifth year option.

Then you can franchise him twice.

So, I mean, get that deal done.

To us, it makes sense.

We're not writing the checks.

I get that part, but I mean, we never see a player like this available or a player like this play on their fifth year

option.

Like, never.

You never see that.

Well, and they can't really lean back on the, like, hey, we'll just keep this extra money in our pocket right now in case we want to improve the team, you know, more because you look at what they did last offseason.

That's what everyone bitched about.

It's like we guys didn't do anything during free agency to make the team any better.

Well, yeah, exactly.

Now we're at the point of the game where it's like, okay, you've just alienated your best defensive defensive player.

And, yeah, it's not like there are guys like Mike Parsons out there who are available to get, you know, in the interim.

Like, it's just not going to happen.

It makes no sense.

And it's hard to imagine right now, but this is going to get louder because the Cowboys Netflix show comes out tomorrow on Netflix.

And so maybe this whole entire thing, and if this is the case, then I take back everything I've said about Jerry Duncan's genius.

Maybe he's waiting to sign him tonight so that everybody knows that this Cowboys show is coming out on Tuesday and it's great promotion for it.

And this whole thing was just, you know, a joke, basically.

But there's going to be a clip that comes out where Jerry's probably not even talking about Micah, but something gets said and then people link it that he's talking shit about Micah like people did with Dylan Gabriel after his, you know, gay.

People said

he took a shot at, you know, Shadir Sanders.

Obviously, he didn't.

But people will do that with stuff that comes out from this show

tomorrow because it's

really just about about Jerry.

I didn't realize it's coming out to me.

I actually watched it.

I watched all eight episodes.

It's kind of awesome.

Is it Jerry last season?

No, it's all the way.

It's the whole story.

How Jerry built the caliber.

Like the Chiefs one, like the Chiefs one that just came up.

Yeah, like the Kingdom.

The Kingdoms.

That one I have not seen.

It was good.

I didn't get the sneak peek for that one.

So is it him dealing with Emmett Smith?

Oh, yeah.

Dehon and like, you know,

the Emmett Smith.

Hold up.

There's a lot of Michael Irvin stuff.

I'm not going to spoil it.

Michael Irvin is a rock star.

Crushes it.

Okay.

I love that.

Let's play Mike.

If there was like an MVP.

Of course.

Yeah, yeah.

Not a shot.

Yeah, that's incredible.

Yeah, you want Michael playing.

You want him in there playing football because it's nothing like getting into football shape.

I think Jerry already came out and said, I wouldn't bet on him to be out there week one.

You don't want to do that.

If you're a Cowboys fan, you want Mike out there.

I mean, I really, really hope they get this deal done.

It just does not make sense.

But to your point, if he does do it,

it would be an all-time Jerry move.

That would be an all-time jerry move and i i like i feel more bad for like tie at this moment now because i as a non-packers fan i'm imagining michael parsons on the packers

like that that would be so cool it that would be

it would be it would be like reggie white it would be just like reggie white minus the two-month-long free agency tour all right before we get to commercial yeah real quickly because we were talking about the commanders a lot earlier with terry mclaurin and them going all in and stuff yeah there was a report this weekend that they're potentially looking looking at trading their starting running back, Brian Robinson.

Is that, is there any, is there

legitimacy to that?

I would say there is some legitimacy.

I don't like the term shopping because to me, shopping is like, if you're shopping a player, you're going to cut him if you don't like.

Yeah, he's not getting cut.

I don't believe he's getting.

I mean, he's a starting running back.

So my sense of this one is like, they got a good young running back, right?

They have Austin Eckler.

They are probably not going to extend him.

They think they they have a good running back.

They think they have a good one.

He's a rookie, yes.

Right.

They are not going to extend him.

So if you're not going to extend them, let's see if we can get something for him now.

Like, it's interesting.

I'm sure they'll be able to get something.

I'm sure there is a market.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's dealt.

It's just interesting because they're really good.

He's their starter.

So it's like...

How unbelievably confident do you have to be to trade your starting running back before the season?

In the rookie.

Right.

In the rookie or in like, we're just going to make it work with 31-year-old Austin Eckler, who is so jacked.

I follow him on Instagram for I don't know why.

And all he does is pull-ups.

Yeah,

he is jacked.

I mean, he is like.

I mean, you got to keep in mind when you're looking in the mirror, Austin Eckler is basically looking back at you.

He's just much more jacked and worked really, really hard.

But you guys are like the same thing.

You could look like Austin Eckler if you're not.

I do the Peloton.

He does the pull-ups.

Yeah, yeah, he does real stuff.

Really quick, just because there's only 30 seconds.

Is Kenneth Walker and Zach Charbonnet?

Is that a real running back one battle?

Is that a quick fantasy question?

No, no, no.

I'm genuinely asking.

That is a great question.

And if only we had a couple more hours to discuss.

Put a pin in that one.

Okay.

That is a good thing.

In the business, stay here.

I mean, not here, but basically here.

Yeah.

We will be right back on the Pat McAfee show with a lot more football talk, some fun guests.

Anyway, don't go anywhere.

We'll be back.

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Football!

The pause was a little too long.

It was.

It's okay.

It was

cooler.

Next hour, you'll hit it.

Four for two.

It was a cool lead line.

Well, it's a lot.

I've done this like four times.

I've not even come close to hitting it once.

You're a pretty good hour one.

Yeah.

And

you saying, you know.

You wanted Pat?

That was good.

I'm not Pat.

I'm Pat.

A little Adam Shine asking.

Yeah, that was a little shine.

Sometimes I run into Adam Shine at the

one of the local restaurants.

We get some soup dumplings together.

There was a bit of a shine doing that.

I like that.

Yeah, so do I.

And you

broke news during the break.

So that was cool.

We have some breaking news.

The Cleveland Browns have named Joe Flacco as their starting quarterback.

What?

No!

I would agree, it is not a surprise, but it is reality.

Joe Flacco is their starter.

They have now.

Wait, why are you so surprised?

Watch week one of the preseason?

Christ

is what some people would say.

Some people.

The naive.

Yeah.

All right.

I know you guys have just heard this news.

I know you are quickly digesting it.

Yes.

I want immediate and deep reaction on what this means and how surprised you guys are.

You heard it.

Jerry Jones is going to have, Jerry Jones, geez, Jerry Judy is going to have 2,200 yards and 25 touchdowns because Joe Flacco is going to throw it as far as possible, and he finally has a receiver that will get under every single thing.

And his name is Jerry Judy.

Ike's right.

I mean, I think we knew this was going to happen when Joe Flacco signed with the Browns.

So I think that's

really that crazy of a sort of a bad thing.

Yeah, this goes back to the August 18th thing, where it's like we're halfway through, and all the stuff we already know hasn't been announced yet, but it's about to be announced.

That's kind of what it feels like.

Yeah.

It's like for this quarterback battle in general, like we always knew it was going to be Joe just because he did so well in the Stefanski offense.

He hasn't played any of the preseason games because they're not worried about him playing in the preseason games.

They know how good he is.

They probably were never going to start a third-round pick or a fifth-round pick

rookie quarterback.

Will they later in the season?

Maybe.

And Kenny Pickett was hurt, has been hurt basically all preseason.

So, I mean, the writing was on the wall always for Joe here in this quarterback battle.

Now, some of the other quarterback battles, I am not so sure who's going to win it, but this one it felt like it was always Joe's.

Yeah, Joe and Stefanski.

I mean, you have to keep it peanut butter and jelly.

I like how all the highlights are just Colts, Joe.

Oh, they're from last year.

Yeah,

I know, but I'm just saying, like, we spent all this time talking about the Colts, and then it's like, I mean, right?

Yeah, it's reminded me that I

jumped on a sword for Joe last year.

So, um, check us through it.

You know, you know,

Anthony stepped out, and he did the whole thing.

Hey, let's go with the guy.

He gives us a chance in the locker room.

same thing's going on cleveland he is the guy week one we we all expected to be the starter uh do i expect him to be the starter week 12 um i think he would have to play really really really well and then the rookies both rookies would have to be not developing and not playing well um in practice wait so you don't think this is like the whole year i don't think this is a uh i mean it's tough to commit to what how old is joe now 40 40 probably 40 40 40 yeah

flat this is where i talk about how old he is and he's younger than me but go ahead yeah i mean and looking quarterback he's played quarterback for a long time, so he could have a good year.

We talked about Jerry Judy and the other weapons he has around him.

He could have a good year, but I think you got to find out with the picks that they have next year.

You got to find out what you have in one or two of those young quarterbacks.

And I think Kenny Pickett may be the odd man out.

Didn't really give himself a chance this preseason to kind of battle or compete.

But happy for Joe.

He got another opportunity to start in the National Football League.

You can't overlook that ever.

And he is a pros-pro, so let's see if he'll figure it out.

But young guys, continue continue to take those reps and take advantage of the opportunities you also have to keep in mind here that when joe flacco was in cleveland last he did the unthinkable and you know he beat out somebody who died on the field to win comeback player of the year so when you're thinking of cleveland and joe flacco

you kind of do have to go into that thought of hold on kidding joe flacco took them to the playoffs and Jerry Judy and now Isaiah Bond.

I mean, they got all these guys who are so fast and they got the strongest arm in the history of the NFL.

Man, I was there for training camp, and I stood in the end zone while they were doing red zone.

And not only was it like a,

like, it was on the money.

It was on, like, he looked, he looked good.

We're talking about Joe Flacco.

I just saying some schmuck.

I just remember when he was with,

do you guys know that Joe Flacco played for the Broncos?

Yeah.

He was actually on the show.

He was on the show when he was on the Broncos.

Yeah, he was.

And got

circa 2019, I want to say

when he was on the

winner.

Yeah.

What was it?

McManus had like a game winner, and McManus was on.

Yeah, he was on the show, and Joe walked in.

He just said, hey, Joe, say hi.

And he did.

So, yeah, we're highly aware of Joe's.

And he's still, I mean, I just don't know.

It's just like the weirdest career ever.

Like, Super Bowl winner, starter up here, gets replaced by, I forget what happened to the guy who replaced him, but I think he's pretty good.

Yep.

Yeah.

Solid.

Which is fine.

I mean, that was, you know, great job by Baltimore.

He made the right move.

I think they made the right move.

But it was weird.

You're right.

Like, after that happened, he just kind of fell off the closet.

Well, the Jets happened.

Yeah, but people just kind of

wrote him off.

Forgot about that.

Yeah.

But a lot of quarterbacks go to the Jets to be able to get.

Several Wenton has to do.

And then they go to other organizations to be revived and thrive and make the playoffs.

Oh, really?

That's for broadcasting.

You're just making in general.

That's a flat old not related to any of those.

But Chad Pennington did.

Okay.

That's what.

FitzMagic, Darn.

Fitzmagic, Darnold, Brett Favre, Favre.

Fitzmagic won 10 games with the Jets.

It's actually a pretty decent little list we got going on of guys that left the Jets and then did better at their next.

The Eagles, I don't remember.

Is this weird?

I think Eagles was just a can of corn.

I don't think he actually played.

Was that the same year as the Jets?

And then I remember with the,

I think it was with the Browns in 2013.

He was signed in week like eight or something like that, right?

2023.

2023, yeah, yeah.

2023, right?

Yeah, he was off the couch.

Yeah, he only

and nobody, I remember talking to his agent, agent, Joe Linta.

Nobody offered, no one wanted him.

It was literally over, and then he signed with the practice squad.

Because they reached out to the Jets, I think, because Rodgers had already gotten hurt and Zach Wilson wasn't playing good, and the Jets basically said, nah, yeah, we're not interested.

It's crazy.

Joe Flacco,

also a good dude.

Great dude.

Great.

Joe's the man.

I have room for Joe.

I have, yeah.

Never lost his accent either.

Nope.

He doesn't have an accent.

Joe doesn't have an accent.

Yes, he does.

Crap.

Nope.

Are you guys making fun of me now?

No, he has a Steve.

No, he doesn't.

Look,

Joe Flasgow saying the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Can we get that so I can?

You just heard it.

You actually just heard it.

See, the problem with you guys is I can't tell if you've had a discussion about this beforehand.

You're like, well, I mean, we've definitely had discussions.

We've discussions about everything, but this one's real.

I can't believe it.

He's got a very thick Philadelphia Jason accent.

He was a bluehead.

Yeah, when you...

Bluehead I knew knew about.

When you hear it, you're going to feel really dumb about what has happened in the last minute.

I mean, I felt pretty dumb with Arlofsky laughing about my golfing skills and talking about how much he's going to beat me, but that's probably true also.

What if you go out there and just shove it up his ass?

Could you imagine?

Yeah, I could.

I'm so happy.

The problem with playing golf against these guys who are like actual athletes is I like work so hard and I'm so mediocre and he's like

going to be much better than me.

Yes, maybe.

Imagine that.

He's a foot taller than you.

He is a foot taller than me.

The real problem is when

you are thinking about playing golf again, and then you see Scotty Scheffler chip in, and you're like, oh, okay, so I could never do that, so I'm not going to play golf.

That'd be stupid.

I didn't even understand.

I went to,

this is definitely why the people are watching.

Well, Scotty Scheffler won the BMW Championship.

I don't know what's going on.

Yeah, yeah.

Scotty Scheffler won the BMW Championship, chipping in with an absolutely ridiculous chip that you're seeing right here on the seven.

That was 17

in like the most beautiful, elegant chip that you've ever seen.

Perfect.

Like, and what I don't understand is that at some point, his caddy, who's actually on a different caddy right now,

his caddy's like, all right, land it here and it's going to roll 40 feet.

And he's like, got you.

If I have a caddy say that to me, I'm like, yeah, bro, cool.

Yeah.

Well, it goes back to what Bryson was saying last week about how

his distances.

And granted, obviously, he's not 500 yards on the T-box hitting a driver, but he knows exactly, you know, how hard

to hit the ball.

It is just insane watching, not just Scotty, because there are a bunch of dudes.

I mean, Akshay Batsia had a hole in one from 225.

Yeah, like

all the guys are just so good.

Bobby Mac, Robert McIntyre, arguably was like the story of the entire tournament, was just on fire.

And then, you know, that's the difference between him and Scotty Scheffer as they get paired together.

They're in the final round, and he bogies three of his first four holes.

Scotty birdies two of them.

And it's like, wow, that's an eight-shot swing.

Start stunning.

Scotty has that ability, yeah.

Because, yeah, Bob Mack was up, I think he was minus 14 going into Saturday, and minus seven was second place.

Like, just unbelievable first two rounds, and then you stand next to Scotty on the first tee, and

everything starts falling apart.

It is inevitable.

Golf is the worst like that, though.

Like, if you're like, I know you're supposed to be like, you're playing the course and you're playing your own shots, but like, you're obviously not.

This is why, like, match play, I mean, this wasn't match play, but it sort of kind of was like it's the worst Yeah, because you know you bogey he birdies you feel like you lost a million, you know, so much ground and you're like how do you not watch this great golfer just humiliate you on the court?

Well, and that's why the Ryder Cup's so awesome to everything you just said about like you know, it's you and it's just you know, you're just looking at your pretty good group, by the way.

Yeah, they are going.

This is going to be an incredible tournament.

I got to get out there.

Just one day.

You'll be out there.

You'll be, yeah, It's close to your house, right?

It's about an hour away.

You've played Beth Page.

You've played Beth Page.

I have played Beth Page.

What'd you shoot?

I shot.

170?

No, no, no.

I played it, I think, four times.

I shot 89 one time.

Pretty good.

But it is so much, like, first time I played it, I wasn't driving the ball well at all.

And I was in the rough every, and like,

I'm like, all right, in the rough, six iron to an elevated green, 185 away.

I'm like, yeah, it's not.

That's not.

Might as well just punch that out.

So I ended up punching out the whole freaking round.

That's a lot of fun.

That's a lot of fun.

What teeth?

Played from the whites.

Smart.

So very smart.

But it really is.

It is one of my favorite golf courses ever.

Everyone walks.

And then

by the end, you get to like, I think 16 is it?

It's like from an elevated T-box.

And so you have to walk all the way up there with your clubs.

You're so tired.

It's like a beast of a golf course.

And you're like,

three more holes.

And like, like, these guys are going to do it.

Oh, yeah.

The most intense, you know.

And 18 is so fun, too.

18 looks like a stadium hole, basically.

Short, bunkers all lined down, green up top.

Like, everyone drives it in the bunker, and it's like high drama.

It's going to be very fun.

Yeah.

When is it exactly?

It is the week four of NFL season.

Oh.

End of September, I believe.

Yes.

Let's go.

Yeah.

And I think it's Thursday,

Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, right?

Yeah, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

Oh, God.

Because Friday, Saturday is best ball and

alternating.

And then Sunday, all 14 guys go out.

Speaking of Dean Budge.

Yeah, you can't talk big time golf without talking live.

Indianapolis.

I mean, they delivered.

I don't know if you watched.

You were watching BMW.

So did you watch?

I did not.

So

my son, Max, is here.

Max, say hi.

He's watching YouTube.

Man, baby, Max.

I have no idea we're even talking to you.

My wife is going to literally kill me because he's not supposed to be watching YouTube, but it's fine.

Unless he's watching the show.

Better than a different tube.

He's 12, but he's not 15.

Not in this state, that's right.

Yeah, yeah, you're not allowed to in this state.

Definitely not.

And he goes, basketball, and there's ways around.

Yeah,

we got a guy in the future.

That's why Bill's got that Chicago VPN.

Ready whenever.

I have no comments.

I have no comments.

Go ahead.

Sorry.

Your boy's a real live head is what you were saying.

We're walking through the course and he goes, wait, was there golf here?

Yeah.

And I'm like, yes.

And he's like, could we have seen it?

I'm like, yes.

Could have seen it.

And he had like no idea that the live tournament was literally here.

Yeah, they came.

They came here.

I was not here.

I was home, but a couple of the boys, they went.

It sounded like they had a great time.

Ron won, which kind of had some people, you know.

Because he won, but Joaquin won like five events.

John Rahm didn't win any, but he's been like top top five top 10.

He is one back-to-back now champion.

Yeah, didn't win any event.

So the point system, which is, you know, something to be talked about, but they delivered.

I think they sold out all the tickets here.

They'll be coming back next year.

Oh, yeah.

I think they have one more in Michigan next week to kind of wrap up the team championships.

They have the in-person thing figured out.

They need to get the TV thing figured out.

Because there's more people on the TV than there is at the yeah, Nick said

for now, who was like the last person I expected to enjoy it, who said it was awesome.

Really?

Yeah, and I think it was because I've been to like PGA events.

Like I've been to the U.S.

Open at Oakmont, and the live thing was just so relaxed.

It just felt comfortable.

It was cool.

The music wasn't too loud.

It was a nice vibe.

You could get a great seat, great sight lines.

And Zito was there too, and I know they hooked him up a little bit.

And it was just

totally awesome.

You guys weren't sitting together?

I went on Saturday.

Zeit went on Sunday.

Oh, okay.

But you guys didn't sit in the same seats.

I will tell you, people were parachuting in to tell you who who's on the leaderboard.

It was one of the coolest things of all time.

And then the fireworks, I don't know.

Is that a euphemism or like

they're literally parachuting in?

Yeah, to tell you who's the lead and who's the second.

I feel like this is like the Joe Flacco accent thing.

Yeah,

I'm on the same page as you.

Real guys.

No, I live.

Nope.

Out of the box.

They do.

It is golf, but louder.

Why John Rahm drinking milk like he just won the

Indian hat?

Yeah, in Indian.

They had a pace car.

I wasn't sure if they, okay, so I thought.

And everyone was cool with that?

Yeah, yeah.

Do it as the locals.

I think they asked him before the tournament, like, if he would consider doing that if he wanted to.

Yeah.

I shot a thing 60, too.

Yeah, that horse was very good.

I thought that's why they did it, but I wasn't sure if it was some like, hey, at the end of the live, the champion drinks milk.

It's pretty cool.

Every stop, they do a different, you know, different gimmick

for the locals.

That's cool.

I respect.

I'm not going to make fun of it.

All right.

I love golf talk.

We have a little football talk on tap for us.

Our good friend, Harry Douglas,

has been waiting patiently while we talk about golf.

Former Fox.

Former superstar.

Thank you for hanging with us today.

Do you have any golf takes before we get to football?

No, I'm not much of a golfer, although I just finished playing in Jim Kelly's charity golf tournament, Kelly for Kids, up in Batavia, New York.

And man, I probably, out of all the holes, I probably hit the ball correctly three to four times.

Start.

How do you play 18 stars like that?

What do you mean?

I mean,

it's called drinking.

You're familiar with it, aren't you?

I've heard of this.

I've heard of it.

Yes.

All right.

Now we're.

This is good.

Now we're on the same page.

This is great.

I just don't like the drink when I play golf.

Dumped on you, dude.

Boy old boy.

Hollywood Jay.

That was as bad as it gets.

Let's just be real.

All right, as you were coming on, as you were waiting, we got the news that Joe Flacco is the starting quarterback for the Browns.

First of all, your reaction to that.

And second of all,

what do you think now happens to the rest of that quarterback room?

Kenny pick and include.

Yes.

So number one, starting with Joe Flacco, it's exactly what I expected to happen, him be the

starter for week one.

Now, the reason why I would have went this route as well, when you look at their schedule, it's pretty daunting to start off.

And the last thing you want to do is to have a rookie quarterback say, man, I got to keep up with all these teams that we have to play.

Joe Burrow is week one.

I believe in that mix, you have Lamar Jackson is the Baltimore Ravens and so on and so on.

So I felt like Joe Flacco was the guy for the job week one.

Now, at some point, gradually, you have to figure out if, you know, is it going to be Dylan Gabriel?

Is it going to be Shadora Sanders with the two first-round picks in 2026?

But at the same time, when you look at the number two quarterback, now that's up for grabs.

Now, I thought Dylan Gabriel this weekend in this first preseason game had a solid showing outside of the turnovers.

And I don't want to downplay those because if Shadora Sanders would have threw a pick six or Shadora Sanders would have fumbled the football trying to hand the ball off to the running back, then there would be a lot of people right here today crucifying him.

Now, Dylan Gabriel did some great thing, going three for three on third downs in the first drive, throwing the ball in tight windows where only his receiver can catch it.

Yes, all those things are great.

But at the quarterback position, the main thing that you're supposed to do is take care of the football.

I know in every offensive meeting that I got up to or I was in during my 10 years playing, the number one must that week was

No turnovers, take care of the football.

And then for a guy who touches it every single play, you got to be able to do that.

So, you know, between the two performances, I will give the edge to Shador Sanders because he didn't turn the football over.

Okay.

And that's something that I'm not going to take lightly.

Now, Harry, before you, before you were on, we got a little bit of news.

Another, let's see, very

important piece of quarterback news.

And the boys are going to have some questions for you in a second, but I want to get to this.

Matthew Stafford practiced today.

He was on the practice field.

You can see him now.

Looking good, throwing some deep balls to Devontae and

Puka.

You're watching watching this now.

You've obviously seen that Stafford is on the practice.

If you've been following along like all of us, what do you think when you see this right here in front of you?

Well, number one, yesterday was Sunday, so God answered a lot of prayers for him.

That's the first damn thing that comes to my mind.

But this is a great sign because, you know, Friday, I was concerned that Matthew Stafford, well, more than concerned, I was alarmed that he hadn't practiced up until that point.

And when you have two receivers like Devontae Adams and also Puka Dakua, and for a guy like Matthew Stafford, does he need those reps 1,000%?

No, but you would love for him to get reps with the number 1A and 1B receiver that he does have because I picked the Los Angeles Rams to have the number one seat in the NFC as a conference this season.

When you look at their schedule, everyone talks about the 49ers and their schedule, how easy it is.

Well, Sam Fran only

played four games against teams that made the playoffs last year.

The Rams only played five games versus teams who made the playoffs last season.

So this is a team I felt like gotten better since last year.

And if it wasn't for, you know, Jalen Carter dismantling an offensive lineman, we might be

talking about a different story within the Philadelphia Eagles going and winning the Super Bowl last year.

So I really like the Rams and where they are right now as a football team, but the catalyst to it all has to be Matthew Stafford at the quarterback position, who can still make every single throw on the field.

Yeah, and it really feels like the conversation, like now that we, look, we'll see tomorrow if Stafford, we'll hear from McVay, we'll get his schedule and see kind of like how hard they're going to, you know, push the button on him basically.

But just him being on the field for me feels like the conversation has now changed.

Like, you see him, he's functional, he throws, like, I think the Rams are going to be really, really, really good.

And now that he is at least back practicing, that can sort of...

That can sort of kick off and keep us going in that direction.

But let me say this, though.

Here's the the catcher, though.

Go ahead.

It's a good sign that he's out there practicing and he's throwing, but it's also imperative that he doesn't have setbacks, right?

That's the big thing when it comes to a back injury.

Right.

That's a good call.

That's a good call.

Especially when you're old.

Boys have some questions for you.

Tony, go ahead.

Yeah, Harry, good to see you.

Reminds me that week zero is this week.

We are basically back to football.

But I wanted to ask you about your Falcons.

Pennex has not played in the preseason, but I know they've had at least two joint practices with two different teams so far.

So he's got his his work in there.

How do you feel about Pennix and the Falcons this year?

Because I thought he looked really good at the end of last season.

And then have you heard anything about those two young boys coming off the edge that are going to be the difference this year for their defense?

So let me say this about Michael Pennix first.

Last year was the bird call, right?

When my Falcons were winning games.

This year, Michael Pennix is Michael Pennix Jr.

is the quarterback.

Here.

Thumbs, the gunslinger.

The gunslinger.

Get ready, baby.

They're going to be fireworks all over the place.

So what I love the most about Michael Pennix Jr.

is you always want your quarterback to be cool, calm, and collected.

He is extremely that in the pocket.

You also want your quarterback to throw dimes and be able to make every single throw on the football field, short, intermediate, deep, outside the numbers.

He's pinpoint accurate.

He does those things as well.

I think Michael Pennix Jr.

is going to be able to unlock Kyle Pitts Jr.

And that's exactly what all of us have been waiting on.

Kyle Pitts to be unlocked.

And those two guys being very, very close golfing buddies as well.

I think that's the last thing when you talk about this Falcons offense is Kyle Pitts really coming along and having a season even better than he did his rookie year.

That's the only year he had for

1,000 yards receiving.

But that's also the year that he had competent quarterback play with Matt Ryan as well.

So I'm looking for a big year for Kyle Pitts, also for Michael Pennix Jr.

You look at this defense, that's the chess piece because three of the last four years, 31st, 31st, 32nd, and second to quarterback

that's why you draft a jalen walker in the first round you give up your 2026 pick with the rams and you go and get a james pierce jr those guys are going to have to be ferocious and i don't think they have time to ease into it because a lot of people are telling me that the falcons need to catch up to the tampa bay buccaneers people are people forgetting that the atlanta falcons had like a three or four game lead in the nfc south last season And if it wasn't for Kirk Cousins throwing nine interceptions and just one touchdown in like four games, we're talking about a different story in the NFC south.

So a lot of people are forgetting that the Falcons had a three or four game lead in that division on top of beating the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

So if that defense, and you don't have to be world beaters, you don't have to be great, but you have to be able to

not allow the quarterback for the opposing team to be comfortable in the pocket.

And we all know, D.

Buzz, you know this.

The pass rush and the secondary go hand in hand.

If you're not getting pressure on the quarterback, I don't care who you have in your secondary.

They're not going to be able to cover for five or six seconds.

Yeah, speaking of the guys that are going to have to get covered, a lot of rookie wide receivers.

I know you're tapped in the college football game and obviously NFL.

A lot of rookie wide receivers are going to be on the board.

You know, Travis Hunter, Matthew Golden out to Green Bay, Abuka down in Tampa Bay, T-Mac in Carolina.

Who do you, I guess, expect the most out of this year early on?

I think only Golden, I would expect to probably be wide receiver one and maybe T-Mac down in Carolina.

The other guys have other counterpart parts, but who's who's kind of in that best position that you expect the most production going in this year?

I'm going to go with Matthew Golden for Green Bay because finally, you know, Jordan Love has a number one wide receiver.

This is a guy that for the last six games at Texas last year, he led Texas in receiving yards and he was their big play guy.

SEC championship, big games down the stretch.

It was Matthew Golden that Quentin Ewers went to time and time again.

So I'm really looking forward to seeing him.

He has the size.

He has the speed.

He has the explosiveness.

He's a hands catcher.

He's strong at the catch point as well.

So I'm really looking forward to him taking the top off and also intermediate on crucial downs, third and three to five, third and six and seven, running that slant, catching the ball strong with his hands, not worried about the safety hitting him.

Looking forward to Matthew Golden.

Here's another chess piece guy that I'm looking at too.

When you look at the New England Patriots.

And Josh McDaniels going there and you go back to his history being the offensive coordinator for the Patriots.

I know where this is.

It was always that slot guy, right, that really got off.

So they drafted a receiver in the third round by the name of Kyle Williams.

Oh, hell yeah.

Kyle Williams is the guy that I

that I really, really love.

He's like a human joystick, but when the football's in the is in the air, he's accelerating, going to get it.

If he can get the playbook down and show Drake May that he can be trusted, Kyle Williams is another guy that I'm high on.

Okay.

I like it.

I love it.

Let's stick in the receiver world.

Ty Ty has a question for you.

Yeah, Harry, we've been talking ad nauseum about the Terry McLaurin situation and how, you know, he's been kind of like the poster child, consummate professional face of the franchise for Washington back when they were dog shit, not just last year, you know, when they went to the NFC championship.

What do you ultimately think is going to happen with this situation?

It seems like they're, you know, a couple million dollars apart on where he sees himself and what Washington is willing to pay him.

What do you think is going to happen with this?

And do you think, I mean, there's no way that Washington can go where they want to go without Terry McLaurin this year, right?

Yeah, so first things first, this might be one of the dumbest situations in the National Football League right now.

From whose situation?

You're talking about,

well, from the front office of the Commanders.

Like, you have a guy in Terry McLaurin who is your number one wide receiver.

They were

sixth and third downs last year and converting.

They were first on fourth downs.

So if I'm Fifth Kingsbury, if I'm Dan Quinn, if I know we go for it on fourth downs frequently, do you think I want to go for it if I don't have my number one wide receiver out there with my quarterback?

I have Jaden Daniels as my number one guy to win MVP.

But if Terry McClorn's not out there, I don't have Jaden Daniels as my number one guy.

And here's another part to it.

Jay Daniels was so good last season.

You know, he covered up for a lot of deficiency that the commanders actually had.

Why would you add another deficiency to Jayden Daniels and put that on this plate if he doesn't have a number one wide receiver.

He already led the team in rushing last season at the quarterback position.

The defense was 30th versus the run.

That's something a lot of people don't talk about.

He covered up for all these deficiencies at the quarterback position.

Why would you put one more thing on this plate by not allowing him to have his number one wide receiver?

And for a guy like Terry McLaurin, who had 82, 83 catches, well, 56 of those catches went for first downs, fellas.

So

my thinking is: why would you not pay Terret McLaurin for the next three years and extend him when you have this window of your quarterback being on a rookie contract?

I think Jaden Damiens, the next three years, totaling, I think the total is like $31 million.

He's counting against the cap.

Why not capitalize on this opportunity right now?

Because, no, they're not contending for anything, in my opinion, if Terre McLaurin is not out there on the football field with Jaden Damiens.

Well, the other thing I keep thinking is like, you mentioned the runs, and there were times last year, it was late in the season, it was in the playoffs.

There was a couple games late in the season into the playoffs where he got hit.

And each time he got hit, I'm like, oh, God.

And not just because I'm someone who reports on injuries, but also like, can we just keep this guy healthy?

And so like, what you would sort of think is less run, fewer runs this year and more spreading it around to the weapons, but that's one of the best weapons.

And, you know,

yeah, I mean,

you gotta have, especially when you go and trade for a guy like Debo, like,

from a defensive back standpoint, if Terry's on the field, that makes Debo 10 times more dangerous because you can't really focus in on him.

He's a guy, you get the ball in his hands.

And you mentioned the fourth downs, like, they also do a lot of hurry-up, you know, a lot of hurry-up, a lot of fourth-downs, keeps the offense off balance.

But how important, for the people that don't know, are these reps?

I know Terry's a savvy vet, but he only played one year, one season with Jayden Daniels.

How important are these training camp reps for a wide receiver and a quarterback?

On the scale of one to 10, I'm going to say 11.

Okay.

Because

at the quarterback position, right,

you want to have that rapport with your number one wide receiver.

Now, they had it last season, but remember, it didn't start off that way.

It gradually worked into that.

But if my number one guy isn't practicing the entire offseason because he's dealing with the contract situation, he's not going to be ready to go full throttle week one.

How?

That's humanly impossible.

There's nothing that anyone can do away from football to get in game shape.

And D-Buzz, you know this.

There's nothing a player can do to get in shape at home that he can do going against his guys every single day in practice.

So just him not out there doing that, I think when he does come back and he practice, once he gets his contract, you're not going to be able to put him out there for an entire game and play the, or take the bulk of the load that he's normally taken, I would say.

But also, guys, I would ask y'all this.

Who else on that roster from a receiver position?

And I'm saying this with the, like in a humble way, Who is the guy that y'all think that could line up and be the number one wide receiver against a team's number one corner and get open frequently?

Maybe just watch him.

Maybe just Luke McCaffrey.

That's the only guy.

But no, like, honestly, I can't promise.

I was looking at their depth chart earlier.

Like, right now, it's give us a Terry.

Noah Brown is hurt, correct?

Debo, Chris Moore, Luke McCaffrey, and Jalen Lane, the rookie out of Virginia Tech.

Yeah.

That's really.

They need Terry.

Harry, we got one more.

I I know Boston Connor wants to get to you, but for for Terry, now he has been practicing, he has been practicing by himself.

He's been kind of, now he's slowly ramping up.

How long do you think it takes to get him from right now, which has like kind of been doing some work, to like ready on the field?

Let's go.

Two and a half, three weeks.

Okay.

Think about this, y'all.

A receiver runs 60 yards, doesn't get the ball, runs back 60 yards.

Receiver could run 20 yards, catch a bench route, a deep out.

Okay, then you got it, but they go no huddle, though, too, now.

So

this is a hippo-type offense.

So all these things you have to factor in when it comes to being in game shape with Terry McLaughlin at the wide receiver position.

All right, one more for you.

Yeah, Harry, love what you said about Kyle Williams.

I'm Patriots fan.

I think what you really need to, and I'm sure you probably already know him, but this guy's taking over.

His name's Efton Chisholm.

You know, you mentioned Josh McDaniel offenses, a huge key to those offenses.

Small, no-name, white guy, catching passes that no one's ever heard of before.

And that is who Efton Chisholm is, but also undrafted guy.

But aside from that, looking at you over there, you got that Louisville Cardinal above your head.

A guy that you started college with, Tyler Chuck, is currently in a QB battle in New Orleans.

What's the word

you're hearing about Tyler Chuck?

And realistically, if you're a Saints fan and you're looking at this season, I mean, we already talked about the Falcons.

We mentioned Tampa.

Things in Carolina seem to be turning around.

What really are you kind of looking for if you're just a Saints fan going into this year with Kelly Moe in his first year?

So, number one, if I'm Kellen Moore and the season started today, Spencer Rattler would be the quarterback that I start.

And the reason why I say that is because when you look at Shuck, you see some great things.

Last week, he had to pick six and then came right back, double move through the touchdown pass.

But even yesterday versus Jacksonville, you see moments where he might be holding the football a little too long, right?

And

that's just what you can't do in this league.

Caleb Williams has understood that now

with Ben Johnson coaching him.

If you want to be productive in this league, you got to go through your reads precisely, right?

You have to throw with anticipation.

The minute you sit there and you're like,

then that's when you're going to get sacked.

That's when forced fumbles happen.

So I just saw from the standpoint of Spencer Rattler, I thought he looked better in yesterday's performance.

Let's see what the third preseason game game gives us.

But, you know, Tyler Shug, he's going to be a good quarterback in this league.

I just think right now, I will go with Spencer Rattler as my starting quarterback.

And at least if you do that, like you can, you can say, all right, like, not that you want to

bench Spencer Rattler, but you could do it.

You could say, all right, bring on the rookie.

It's time.

To do it the other way seems more challenging, right?

Like to do it the other way is.

Same with AR and Dan Jones.

That's damn near.

Yeah.

I mean, it's, yeah, that's exactly right.

Because when you do that, it's like, you know, how do you, how do you go back to a killer confidence?

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Harry, great stuff.

Appreciate you, man.

Thank you for the talk.

Thank you for the knowledge.

And I would say we will talk to you soon.

I'm sure these guys will talk to you very soon.

I might not, but then again, I might.

So thank you, man.

Great stuff.

Appreciate you.

Also, Ian, don't be scared.

Don't be scared to drink on the golf course, man.

It's okay.

I'm not saying I don't.

You won't be crucified for it.

I'm not saying I don't.

He's got a flask behind the mic, right?

He's kidding driving him to the airport.

He's only 12.

This is like, it's like happy game or where it's like drinking everything.

Exactly.

Boom.

The mic turns into it.

Boom.

There you go.

I appreciate the words of advice.

Thank you, Harry.

Thank you, Harry.

Man, boy.

You guys are right.

I do have.

That was great stuff, by the way.

Yeah, he's awesome.

I mean, that was.

He's locked in.

Yeah, locked in.

Let's go season.

I also appreciated the tower shook a little bit line.

I do have my son, Max here.

You guys mention it.

Can I bring him up to say hello?

You guys okay with that real quick?

He ain't my boy.

Come here, Max.

Come here.

Come on, Max.

Max is 12.

Not as far as I can.

As you guys know, he has been in Fiji at Sleepaway Camp.

Max, say hi to everyone.

Hello.

How you doing, Max?

What's up, Matt?

Work, Max.

He has been...

I promised him a year ago that...

I would take him on a trip to Indianapolis for the Pat McAvey show, not knowing whether whether or not I would be back here.

Sure, nice.

So now I have the opportunity.

He's back from summer camp.

He's very polite.

He is.

Yeah, he is.

I would not say that.

He's good ass.

He's all right.

His mother did a very nice job.

Yeah, he's definitely polite.

You know what I'm saying?

Right.

I mean, I spent most of my time hauled up in my basement making phone calls, yelling at people to give me scoops.

Yeah.

He's very, very polite, very kind boy.

Have you learned anything here today?

Were you paying attention?

Be honest.

No.

No.

Okay.

What was your favorite moment from camp?

What?

From camp.

What was your favorite moment from camp?

When your parents shipped you away for three months?

Seven months.

Uh, yeah.

Um, my favorite moment was probably doing the

regatta in the camp-wide color war thing.

Oh, you got a regatta.

That's what you used to say back in.

One first place.

Oh, hell yeah.

Yeah.

No big deal.

All right.

All right.

Thank you, Max.

Hell yeah, Max.

And Big Max.

Boy, Max.

So is he destined for like the Navy now?

I have no idea.

I don't think so.

I'll tell you what.

That's actually really mean.

No, I think about this all the time.

Like, I have two kids.

They play sports.

Like, both are pretty good athletes.

And I think about all the time, like, all right, what would I do if one of them is like great?

Right?

Like,

so, like,

we're raising him.

He's eight, he's nine.

He's playing.

All of a sudden, he's like the best in the world.

It's like, how would I do that?

Yeah.

And

I've never really wondered about that with once I've realized, I mean, these guys are good athletes, but they're not, you know, and now Max is a great sailor.

It's like, what if I have to turn him on to like.

Well, you were a great sailor, too.

Well,

you got to get an oar in the boy's hand.

He's got a lot about it.

He's got Rowan crew in his blood.

Does he know about your Coxman history?

Not Coxman.

He does know, and he loves.

And he loves nature, and he loves being out.

And so crew is amazing because you're out there in the world.

Oh, yeah.

And so I think it would be great for him.

Build a boathouse in your backyard.

we live in a town that does have water.

Okay, okay,

yeah, and they do have some some yacht clubs and some other sailing things They have a good crew I mean the northeast

for shoot I I know we're kind of joking around but the northeast for rowing is like a very very yeah high school rowing I mean oh, yeah, like it's like a damn near a pipeline.

It's really just California and the Northeast.

Yeah.

I mean, I think about it as a parent who would love to send their child to like the greatest school you could possibly like just be a rower.

Yeah, actually,

I was gonna say, Iowa actually has a fantastic rowing team.

Really?

Yeah, Boathouse is beautiful.

Is this like the Flacco accent thing?

No, I'm dead serious.

The Flacco accent thing is real, and so is the Iowa Boathouse.

Yeah, I used to power wash the deck on that thing all the time in the summer.

Did you actually?

Oh, yeah.

I don't know if that's real.

I think he's

right now.

This is what I'm saying.

They don't have a men's team, unfortunately, because of Title IX, but

it is, you know, they do have women's teams.

No, I'll get Georgia.

Iowa's a Hawkeyes.

That's right.

Yes.

So, anyway, Max is here hanging out.

He has been paying, I would say, not very much attention to the show.

Oh, he doesn't like that.

No, no, he paid a good amount of attention.

He was letting us know how much time we had left before the break was over, and that really pissed me off.

So

it was definitely fun.

Someone should tell him I'm going to beat the hell out of his dad if he keeps talking.

That sounds about right.

He's been loading his gullet full of Taco Bell and playing mini clip games on his laptop.

He was acting like a normal 12-year-old.

He did say to me before

the show started, he was like, everyone's kind of like running around before the show.

And I'm like, yeah, that's like,

that's

kind of how it goes.

But it is what it is.

Controlled chaos, huh?

Controlled chaos.

You guys actually miss

the best chaos.

Uh-oh.

Yeah, but it's fun.

Fun morning.

There was a big Monday morning.

There was a big old storm this weekend here in Indianapolis.

High winds, high lightning, high electricity.

Yeah, I was just saying four hours ago, we were not going going to be able to do a show.

So,

actually, seriously,

yeah, that's actually

apologies to the start of the show because our ears were hearing some ringing noise.

So, hopefully, no one else did, but that's how bad it was.

Everything got shut down.

Before you got here, I'd say we were up on the stage for probably like an hour and 10 minutes testing everything, and the boys in the back were basically just scrambling to try to fix everything.

These guys were sweating back there because they were running around plugging stuff in.

Yeah, Zito rebuilt the whole stage.

Good work, boys.

Shut up, which is what?

Great job, boy.

Got it.

Great job.

Mitt had an unexposed wire in one hand and unexposed wire in his other.

Yeah.

And the currency was just flowing through him.

That's kind of how we got to it.

So we just told him to put them in his mouth and just stand in there.

So he's just got two wires hanging out.

I just, of all of the things that, like, I exist in a world basically full of chaos.

Like, I'm doing this show now and my phone is.

buzzing and it could be literally anything.

And so it's like, I'm used to that.

When the weather screws things up, I want to lose my my mind.

Yeah, it is.

Like my training camp tour, which was like 16 flights in 16 days, every day was like, how's the weather going to screw up my day?

And I can't.

Did it?

Yeah.

It's a real pain in the ass, especially when, you know, weather cancels baseball games.

That does think.

It does.

We're trying to connect the chat.

We're going to talk.

Yeah, that was good.

I noticed that too.

We're going to talk a little baseball.

We are going to talk a little baseball, not just because we got literally going on on the main thing and we're on the other thing,

but also because it's baseball season and my Mets are,

they're going to be better.

They are going to be better.

Have you gone to any games?

Next year?

I've been to a couple games.

Did you use SeatGeek to buy your tickets?

So what happened is.

Yeah, you did.

With over 30 million downloads, SeatGeek is the number one rated ticket in that.

Each ticket is rated on a scale of one to 10.

So the green dots, green means good, red means bad.

Week zero is coming.

$30

off all tickets with code pat that's just code pat p-a-t 30 off tickets but remember raps you have tickets like 28 bucks they're not going to give you two dollars so you can go a game okay they're not or they are they're not you're not gonna restrictions apply to the thirty dollars so move yourself down to field level and then get thirty dollars off that one bingo yeah so that sounds like a great company yeah see geeks to go phenomenal yeah

what i do is i call people and they give me tickets oh you smoosh.

That's a good move too.

But you can't really go to games, can you?

Because you have to

kind of fall into that.

You can't even take a shower, remember?

It's so, I mean, I take a shower, but the phone is in the shower.

I missed, what did I miss when I was in the shower?

Oh, because so at my house, I have like a stand.

So idiotic.

I have a stand for my phone in the shower.

Oh, that makes sense.

And so, so sometimes people will call me and I answer all every phone call.

Yeah.

Except sometimes like Pat will FaceTime me, which that does not get answered.

Sure, sorry.

Right.

But it's like when I was at training camp, I didn't have my shower stand, so I missed the Kyron Williams contract extension immediately

because of the shower.

One person

who also showers with his phone,

I assume, I don't know, let's ask him.

Our good friend,

Jeff Passen.

Yay!

Yay!

Joining us on the Pat McAfee show.

Jeff, thank you for that.

What kind of loser has a stand for his phone in the shower?

Is this not what people do?

Yes!

I knew it!

See, this was like the flashlight.

Oh, dude, I have to

take a little shelf.

Give us it.

Take us through it.

Yeah, listen, you have to adjust the shower head just so because it's the little droplets that you worry about like getting into the bottom of the phone right there that can blow the whole thing up.

So you got to make sure that that's up against like a side and covered and you got to sort of angle the shower head so that the blowback isn't too bad.

And yeah, I have broken news in the shower before.

I'm not proud of it, but kind of proud of it.

You guys are the best at what you do.

I appreciate you guys saying that.

You should be proud of it, though, because like, wow,

because it's embarrassing.

What kind of lives do we lead where we have to take our phones into the shower?

Like, that's terrible.

That's not quality of of life.

It's the world we live in, God.

So

I just feel bad for the fans who would miss out on having news 30 seconds before they otherwise would, just so I can shower.

Like, they deserve the news.

Yeah, and there's no other news breakers that would break it.

I hate all of you.

Well, there's that dog, Ricky.

Yeah, Ricky the dog.

He's probably going to be tweeting at you.

He is a dog.

Jeff, so, first of all, thank you.

Hold on, do you compete with the dog for news?

Yeah.

I compete with everyone.

There's people.

There's There's landmines all over.

It's the whole outer.

He scooped rap this weekend, actually.

You can admit it.

He did.

My God.

Joins a long list of dogs who have out to scoop me.

So I'm a Mets fan.

I love baseball.

I'm a Mets fan.

I did watch last night.

No, it's good.

We're in a good place now,

starting this weekend.

Are my Mets going to be okay?

Please tell me my Mets are going to be okay.

I saw we called up one of our top prospects for the minors.

That was very good.

Is help on the way?

Did we do enough at the trade deadline?

Are my Mets going to be okay?

I think if they're going to be okay, it's more because the rest of the National League is just kind of mid and they could back their way in.

I will say this: Nolan McClain coming up was really good for them.

And not just because he threw five and a third shut out in his first start, but because the Mets were 45 and 24 in on the strength of their starting pitching.

And their starting pitching in pretty much the same number of games since then has been among the worst in Major League Baseball.

On top of that, their bullpen has been leaky.

The top of their lineup is great.

It's going to continue to be,

like, to me, their biggest strength when you've got Lindor and Soto and Alonzo in Nemo.

Like, they got guys who can hit up there, but if they want to win in the postseason, they need to stabilize their pitching.

And I don't anticipate that we're going to see a whole lot from the prospect ranks beyond Nolan McClain.

So I'm not getting Jonah Thomas?

Probably not.

He's thrown a lot of innings this season, struck out a lot of dudes.

He is probably more like a May, you know, depending on how the offseason goes, I would anticipate him being like a May 2026 guy.

There's a chance he breaks camp with the team.

I mean, if the Mets really feel like he's got a good chance to win rookie of the year, in Major League Baseball, if you are a top 100 prospect, you start the season with the team and you have a full year of service there

and you get top two in rookie of the year, you get a draft pick.

So,

yeah,

the incentive to bring a guy up.

before the season is strong in that regard.

And it's why you see a guy like Sam Vasayo with the Baltimore Orioles not coming up until after August 15th, because he maintains his rookie eligibility having less than 45 days on the big league roster and in all likelihood fewer than 130 plate appearances.

So he will still be eligible for that prospect promotion incentive pick next year.

Interesting.

Interesting.

All right, that's enough

nerd met stuff for me.

There's been some really fascinating macro major league baseball issues that we want to get to.

Ty Schmidt has a question for you.

Yeah, Jen, I don't know if this is just kind of like a known thing, but it was kind of shocking when the commissioner of MLB, Rob Manfred, last night basically said, like, hey, yeah, expansion is coming, and we're also going to have to look at kind of reformatting, you know, the divisions and everything where

potentially in a world, you know, the Yankees and the Mets will be in the same division, maybe with Boston and, you know, Philly.

Who knows how they're going to do it?

Was this like expected?

We know this was coming this soon.

And what kind of timeline could this potentially be?

Because hearing that last night, I genuinely was like, holy shit, I didn't realize this was so close on the horizon.

Let's start with the timeline, Ty, because that's the most important thing here.

This is at minimum, like four years off.

I think there is a possibility, and all of this goes according to do the A's move to Las Vegas as planned and expected?

And what of the Tampa Bay Rays?

They just are in the process of selling right now.

So the likelihood is that they will remain there.

There would be two expansion teams if owners go forward with it.

And look, owners want the two-plus billion dollar expansion fee that they're going to get at the same time.

They also understand that this next television contract after 2028 that they expect to sign that they want to cover everything in baseball, not just national TV for the World Series and for the postseason, the all-star game, and other things like that, that.

But they want it to be all of the local television rights as well, and to pull those and get an enormous number that they can then distribute out to every team.

So they have to get their ducks in a row, but expansion just makes sense because of the windfall that would come from those expansion fees being redistributed out to all the other teams.

And listen, I think Nashville is almost a shoe-in at this point.

Yes.

You've also got Salt Lake City, which has really impressed people at MLB.

And they've got ownership in place.

They've got the stadium plan in place.

Des Moines is not going to be, but Midwest represents.

Don't talk shit on the Midwest.

I don't want to hear a single word from your obnoxious coastal ass

as if the Midwest is any less worthy of baseball than you turds out on the coast.

Anyway, beyond that,

the realignment thing to me is the most interesting part of it because

the question is, what does Major League Baseball want?

Does it want to realign into eight divisions with four teams each?

Or does it want to radically realign to eight divisions with four teams each?

And the radical sort of realignment that I'm thinking of is putting the Yankees in the Mets in the same division.

It is putting the Dodgers and the Angels in the same division.

It is putting the Cubs in the White Sox.

Geographically.

And the idea of

destroying the American.

Yeah, I mean, it's, Rap, it's going to be within the realm of possibility.

When you are talking about realignment, that makes sense.

And Rob Manford, I don't think it was an accident.

He talked about geographical realignment.

When you assign the word geography to realignment, what else would you think other than they're going to find those little metropolitan area pockets and that northeast pocket right there with the Red Sox, the Yankees, the Mets, and the Philadelphia Phillies, or potentially you could do these are all the games.

Dude, listen, I know, but beyond that, the issue to me that is really at hand here, are we going to have an American league in a national league?

And is it going to look anything like it has historically?

Like, baseball fans have been willing to accept a lot over these last few years.

And I think most of the moves, frankly, have been great.

I adore the pitch clock.

I think it's fantastic.

I think ABS, the challenge system with automated balls and strikes is going to be a net positive.

But man, if you do anything

to mess up what has been in place since the advent of the game and the lens through which fans view that and the rivalries that exist right now, I think there will be significant pushback.

on MLB if they entertain the idea that there cannot be a New York versus New York World Series if they were to split up the Cubs and Cardinals from the same division,

it's crazy.

When they realign, guys, they're going to have to be judicious, thoughtful, and

understanding of these things that fans hold so dear.

God, I hate the Yankees so much.

I would hate them even more if we played them more, but that just seems.

Well, it weakens how special it is when the Yankees and Mets play each other right now.

But I guess that's the Jeff's point.

You know, it's like, hey, that's just something you're going to have to get over with.

I mean, I got over, like, Pitchcock has been amazing.

Manfred Manfred has been controversial and I think really, really good in a lot of ways.

Like Pitchcock, I don't know about saving baseball, but that has been an all-time.

So like,

I don't know.

I want to get to, I want to talk about one of my favorite Mets who no longer is a member of the Mets.

Tone Diggs has a question for you.

Yeah, Jeff, you reported yesterday that Zach Wheeler has a blood clot near his shoulder.

I believe went on the 15-day

IL.

I mean, the Phillies are, I believe they're second right now in odds to win the World Series.

Do we have any more information on Wheeler?

Because this would be a ginormous blow for them in their World Series, hopes.

Yeah, they're doing more testing right now, and they are going to reassess and try and figure out, is this something that can be mitigated?

Is this something that can be fixed before the end of the season?

I mean, if you were to need to go on Blood Thinners, for example, the likelihood would be that his season is over, but we're not there at this point.

Regardless, not having Zach Wheeler Wheeler changes things for the Phillies because, you know, they went out and got Joan Duran at the trade deadline, and that was a really good move for them.

It gave them that closer that they desperately needed, particularly with Jose Alvarado out for the postseason after a positive PED test.

But if the Phillies were going to win, it was going to be because they rode their starting pitching.

It was going to be because Zach Wheeler was there in game one and Christopher Sanchez, who is going to be

as good as the best pitchers in baseball this year, was going to be pitching game two.

And they could go with Ranger Suarez or Aaron Noll.

Like they have a deep, deep starting pitching roster, which is going to allow them to be okay without Zach Wheeler.

Will it allow them to be great?

That's the question.

And something to keep an eye on.

I'll be curious to see if they call up Andrew Painter among the top pitching prospects in baseball, a guy who just was off limits in trade talks at the deadline.

God, I used to love Zach Wheeler as a member of the Mets.

I don't like him so much anymore, but you just,

this is the worst, and you hate it.

And I don't know where the answers are.

And there's been a couple of these in football.

Christian Barmore has been one.

Trace Smith coming out was certainly

a blood caught question.

The Chiefs figured it out, and he has been one of the best players in football.

So

it is possible,

but you just hate it.

I mean, Zach Wheeler is Mets never should have let him go, but he is awesome.

Happening with Wemby in basketball this year, too.

Yeah.

That's right.

Dame Lewis.

Dame Lillard, too, right?

Dame Lillard.

That's right.

Got it.

Anyway,

Jeff, great stuff.

Thank you very much.

Appreciate you hanging out with us.

I kind of wish you would give me a slight, small bit more Mets, like positivity, especially after the big win last night in front of all the Little League kids who were trying to trash talk Peter Lonzo, which was ridiculous, but they literally were screaming in his face despite that he's Peter Lonzo and they're not.

But you're

can I can I can I say one more thing just as long as we're being negative right now

Delby, how tall are you?

Breck and Jeff are 6'3.

All right, take it easy, Jet.

All right, relax.

I mean, bro.

Those are two legendary footy players, brother.

6'3.

I stood next to you, Jet.

Come on.

That's not fair.

Gumpy, Gumpy, they may be 6'3, but you make them look seven-foot.

Like Sat.

Not standing on a box like you, Jet.

See you, Jeff.

Thank you.

Gumpy is too bad.

Oh, my God.

Sorry.

All right.

See you guys.

Good pick.

Holy shit.

Good pick off.

Good picks me soon.

I was kind of mean that

he dunked on Gumpy like that.

Well, I mean, of all things to do it.

I mean, also, you're underselling the height of those two.

I think they're taller than 6'3.

They're definitely taller than 6'3.

And Gumpy, you snuck it in there, but...

Jed's no skyscraper.

Jed ain't eight feet tall either.

I've stood next to Jed at a basketball game.

You know, he's not towering and everybody's got to be a little bit more.

Isn't he my height?

You're taller than the Jed.

So I'm, we hung out at

Burb 75.

That's ridiculous.

Where?

I mean, what?

Jed's on a box there.

It's up there.

It's up there.

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Now Kirchhin, on the other hand,

Kirkchin is not very tall.

Kirkshin's an old man.

Okay, that's true.

In his heyday, he's

6'1.

He shrank a little bit.

Now he's 5'4.

The thing I always heard about Kirkchin, and I'm pretty sure this is true.

He's the goat.

Yeah, it is true.

Do you know what I'm going to say?

No.

Timmy Kay.

He said he's the goat.

He's the goat.

He is the goat.

He is a great basketball player.

Yeah, hey.

That trophy.

No, like he's like, he was like Bob Kozi.

Bob Kozi, yeah.

Both of you watch your fucking mouth.

It was all Adam.

You see this trophy right here?

Yeah.

Bobby Wonder.

Why is that trophy still sitting there?

What is that trophy?

Did you guys 3D print that?

Oh, you're from Mario!

No, you need to ship that shit to OKC.

Oh, you don't know.

You should know.

When you win a title, you keep the trophy.

The next team gets a different one.

I know, but it just missed one.

I don't know.

But for the show, it feels like it shouldn't be sitting up there.

Well, that sucks, boys, because it is.

Yeah.

What are you saying about Kirkschen, though?

He's like a dog on the T-ball sport.

So,

in my previous life, I was an intern at ESPN Classic.

Wow.

Like, a long time ago.

Yeah, that was channel 48 for me.

I love that channel.

For me, it was so cool.

So I was between junior and senior year of college.

I was the one intern for ESPN Classic.

And what I did was do like log tape and do work for their Sports Century documentary.

Sure.

And so I worked on the Billie Gene King documentary.

Classic.

Where I developed a crush on Billie Gene King, which then when I met her at a Mets game, I said, I had a big crush on you when I was like 20 from watching all these old tapes.

And she said, I wish I had met you sooner, which is one of the greatest lines I've ever had anyone tell me ever in the world.

That is sweet.

For many reasons.

I mean, it was the greatest.

How many people did you text?

Everyone I know.

Yeah.

And then the other one was the Cal Ripken Sports Century.

And so I heard from Kirk that Cal Ripken would have like pick up basketball games and Kirkham would just kill everyone.

He was like the best point guard.

You reach, I teach.

He used to be saying that all day long to people.

Slapping the floor.

Is that right?

Slapping the floor.

I got to see the Timmy K tapes.

Yeah.

I mean, you could, you've had some games.

Yeah, but I'm no, I'm no tell.

The internet is telling me this is true.

I mean,

the internet's saying it's true.

Yeah.

The crossover from Timmy K?

Yeah.

See ya!

What did he say when he hit that corner three to win the league championship for

something like, oh, you can't sniff my jockstrap, bitch.

He said, I think he said it to Cal Ripken.

Oh, that's what it was.

Yeah, yeah, he was chirping Ripken.

He did the big ball dance all the way down the court.

Tim Kirchin.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

Do you know what Tim Kirchen sounds like or no?

Yes, I for sure do.

Then how the hell did you just ask, who is this?

Because I didn't know if you guys were punking me again like you did previously.

No, no.

Since we've been talking,

Sean made.

Is it a stressful show for you just because there's there's so much news that could break very soon?

And you just

look at, I mean, that is.

The kicks are clean, both of them.

Look how sweaty Ripken is.

I like how that is Ripken.

They're going hard.

You can look at a freeze frame and know if you got a hoop or not.

Like, bingo.

Boom.

One more dribble, spun back to the right, fade away off the glass.

Yeah, McConnell.

Guaranteed fuck it.

Jeez.

Yeah, I mean, that's.

So Kershin was a dog on the basketball court.

Yeah.

Played with John Shire.

I was telling someone this the other day: one of my great regrets in life is I have no basketball game whatsoever and have never played pickup basketball.

You're a wrestler, never?

Yeah, but like, you'd think I could be able to

join.

Why would you regret that, Rap?

Here's, I'll tell you exactly why.

When

was it the Super Bowl here?

I was here at an event, and somebody was like, We're going to Butler or something like that.

We're going to go play pickup.

Do you want to come?

And I'm like, that would be so cool.

No

No champ can't do it smart.

Yeah, can't do it.

Damn.

When did you start golfing though?

When I was 10.

Oh, okay.

So this.

So when I was like 10, like when I was Max's age, I was really good.

And now I look like someone who used to be good.

Okay.

But basketball never fine.

Yeah, at least you're good at some point.

What news are you about to talk about with McVay?

McVay talked to reporters after practice.

Okay.

Gave an update on Matthew Stafford.

And as far as I could tell from the internet, he said things went good.

Okay.

Which, like, I don't really, you know, of all the things he could say, it's just like it went well.

I mean, he's not going to say if things went bad either.

I mean, he would say, yeah, you're right.

That's probably true.

I mean, the only thing that matters to me is like, does he get back out there tomorrow?

Is he able to continue?

And like, you know, the weird thing is, like, you know, you talk to all these people, you talk to McVay, you talked to all the rents, and they're like, we love Jimmy Garoppolo.

We got a lot of confidence in Garoppolo.

And like, the reason Jimmy signed is because

they think he can compete and he goes and he's going to want to be a starter next year.

If he plays, he could sort of reinvent his career and that would be awesome and it'd be great.

And everyone in the world hopes that that does not happen.

My big thing with him is just like week one, if he's out there and he gets blindsided and gets sacked, like is his back going to be able to hold up?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, it's like your back when you're that age, like that's not something that's going to get...

just he's not going to wake up and it's just going to feel better like that is increasingly probably going to feel worse over the course of an nfl season yeah that's why like even him practicing today like who cares what what are we talking about he he should go every other day every every third day damn near like whatever until until yeah until next you know i guess the day after the last preseason game like it really does not matter what and and maybe it's just kind of hitting me now again but you forget how little this stuff matters for the staffords of the world now obviously like for everybody else this is i mean the most important time of their lives.

But, like, when you're Matt Stafford and you've been in the league forever and you've already won a Super Bowl, it's like it's August 18th.

You definitely need to throw.

Yeah, you need to throw.

He's never played with Devontae.

How do you get through?

You've got to

be in the football condition.

And it's not only him.

It's the guys, you know, the other 10 guys in the huddle.

You know, you get to use, you know, hearing his cadence and the voice and the play calls and the shifts, especially in that offense.

I mean, I was out looking in, it's a lot of moving parts.

You saw we had Poopo on, and he was, I think, running into one of his linemen or some shit in the backfield.

So, all of those things definitely matter.

And to Ty's point, if you're managing it at this point, where hey, you got to go every other day, like it's not getting any shorter with an 18-week regular season in the NFL.

So, we hope, like Harry said, there are no setbacks, and he is, you know, a guy can go out and health and be somewhat healthy.

We know Matt, if he can walk and throw the ball, he's going to play football.

So, hopefully, I mean, it seems like they're being cautious right now, which is good.

But to your point, it is August 18th.

November 18th, we'll look back on this and hopefully he's, you know, they're in a good spot because they're at a damn good football team right now on paper.

I keep thinking about you guys talking about like, oh, you know, Stafford, like, he's got to get his, you know, connection with Devontae and like, this is so, my life is weird as we discuss with the shower thing

and many, many other things.

So I broke the Devontae to the Rams news.

I was extremely happy.

Thanks.

It was a great moment.

I didn't have the picture ready, so I had to just tweet the words and then add the picture later, which I hate whatever.

So you just, and you just post whatever the agent sends you, right?

I cannot comment on who sent me the news.

But then you go out to the joint practice, and I have to remind myself, oh, Devontae.

Yeah.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like, of all the preseason things, it's like, wait, this guy's on this team?

With McVay?

And so, like, chatted with McVay beforehand, and he was like, Devontae is like, he is.

Yeah.

So good at football.

Yeah.

I mean, that's, I think that will be,

well, that will be a fun one to keep track of.

All those guys on the Jets, they really do just get an immediate bad rap.

Like, it's, it's not even funny.

And not that Devontae needs to prove himself at all, but I do feel like because of last year, there is this thought that, like, oh, so what?

Devontae's on the Rams.

It's like, people do forget how dominant he is when he has a quarterback that can throw it just near him.

And he was a guy who, like, every year was not only

a top three receiver in the NFL, like going to the playoffs, like he's been on shitty teams for the last like four or five years of his career like that.

Those Raiders clips of him

in the Netflix show, I was like,

I was feeling for him.

Well, that's why people are talking about the Rams.

Like, oh, the Rams really like Jimmy G.

Well, guess who doesn't?

Devontae.

And everyone's going back to those clips saying stuff like that.

But like the Rams, or sorry, the Vikings fall into the category of Kevin O'Connell's there.

So we have faith in him.

And it's almost like we forget with the Rams that McVay is also one of those guys just because he's got Stafford.

We didn't even talk about the Vikings.

I feel like, so I was texting with a Vikings person before the show.

Who?

Source.

Oh, okay.

It was Kevin.

Pelicero doesn't count.

It was Kevin.

Okay.

Because

I was actually wondering, like, has JJ been as good as we've heard?

Like, that was, which is like,

I guess he lit up the Patriots pretty good in their joint practice.

Yeah, day two, he, I guess the pats couldn't get a stop in the second day dumb.

And that was when I started getting texts, like, hey, like, this guy's, this guy's going to be good.

And, you know, it was kind of like,

we'll see, he's got a long way to go.

But, like, no one's talked about the Vikings at all.

All they did was add a starting quarterback and, you know, watch their other starting quarterback get paid by someone else.

Like, he could be good.

Got O-line and D-line.

They got Jonathan Allen.

It depends on the quarterback position.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which is, I mean, if he plays decent, and if you championship even if he doesn't play that's a chance that's right

if he's a yeah that's right if he's anywhere between 15 and 18 as far as a you know ranking quarterback this season yeah I think that's right NFC championship

yeah I mean some of some of these uh some of these highlights are like

I wish we had better film of the joint practices yeah I would like

you see more in joint practices like when we cover them like as a like and they cut off yeah you know they they cut off when you can video them and some venues are really hard to, like, there's some practice.

I want to say it's either Jets or the Eagles or something like that, where they're sitting under awnings and there's just poles, like actual metal poles that you have to film.

Yeah, they're not very good.

I mean, the Pats, when the Pats had their first joint practice when we were on break, when Vrabel got all bloodied up, like there wasn't one video of that entire thing.

What do you mean?

We haven't seen...

Have we not seen why he saw the second one?

No, we saw the second one, but the first first time it happened when it was reported like Mike Vrabel bloodied up in Patriots' joint practice after getting in a scuffle,

or Scrum, the only thing that came of it was a photo of him walking away with an ice pack or a towel on it.

It should not be that.

That's it right there, yeah.

It's interesting, though, to your point.

You do, because I only saw the day one J.J.

McCarthy clips against the Patriots where it wasn't great, but then day two, all I see were reports about how dominant he was.

He was like 15 or 17 or something, but I didn't see any videos aside from that long screen.

Yeah, see, I don't know what I mean.

I mean, it's just impossible.

Yeah.

It's impossible to know.

Like I was saying, I was following Colts-Packers

joint practices, and it's like from all the Packers beat reporters or saying, hey, they're dominating the day.

And then you go and you look at some of the Colts beat reporters, and it's like, man, Anthony Richardson and Daniel Dimes have looked unbelievable today.

It's like, okay, so, you know, both these teams are going to be in the Super Bowl, I guess.

Here we go.

Yeah, preview.

Yeah.

This is why, like, again, like, I love the preseason, but it is an exercise in frustration.

Oh, yeah.

It's like, I still, even though, like, I'm so interested, I still feel like I don't know anything.

Like, watch watch the Giants.

Like, Jack, and

if you are a Giants fan and you watch Jackson Dart,

he looks really good.

And you're like, why would you not start Jackson Dart?

But it's like, we're not there.

Russ looks good, too.

Yeah, Russ looks good.

So did Jameis.

So did Jameis.

So Jameis.

But now

the only thing I'm thinking, especially watching these clips, is is like, okay, what teams are just walking out there?

Hey, we're not going to show anything.

We're just going to play all of them.

Everybody.

Three, four, cover, two.

Yeah.

Literally.

Every single one of them.

All of them.

You don't want to show any.

The only thing

pre-season is getting out healthy.

Obviously, you got

a percentage of the roster that's trying to make it is very, very important.

But you're even still.

That's a tough spot to be in, too, is a player.

There's so few, like, that's not that many players that are on the bubble.

Like, how many bubble players do you think there are?

Yeah, not many.

I would say the teams know probably, what is it, 52 guys?

They know more or less than 10.

I would say that's

around that number, probably like seven to ten, depending on the team.

And then, some coaches and some organizations are different where there are some places they know who are going to play in what position, and other places where you can literally go out there and really win a job where it's open competition.

They said New England was always like New England.

Was I mean

game week week four was open competition.

You had a bad Wednesday or Thursday.

It was a chance that you showed up on Sunday and you weren't dressed in that game because somebody else is doing something on special teams and you were the third or fourth corner.

Like, nah, we're going to.

So, like, that was one of the organizations, but that was very different.

That was rare in the National Football League.

But I want to ask you, though, you were just talking about.

Texan KOC, and you were a beat reporter, you know, when he was, you know, a quarter, a young quarterback in New England.

How crazy is that for you?

How many guys are there now that you covered at that point?

Now they're Dan Morgan in the front office or head coach.

It's weird.

I mean, especially for him.

Now, first of all, I was hitting golf balls with my dad.

I came back from a break in training camp.

I was hitting golf balls, and Mike Reese broke the story that Kevin O'Connell was released.

These are the things I remember.

And I was so annoyed that

I missed the scoop on that one because he was like a very important hot name.

It's weird.

And like, the craziest thing is, so like, the one that did it for me was I was in Indianapolis at,

what was before

Prime?

What was the name before Prime?

No I almost.

No, no, no, no, no.

It was.

No idea.

Whatever.

Whatever.

You're at a steakhouse.

With that same steakhouse, whatever it was beforehand.

And I had a young quarterback coach come up to me.

Bosses?

And I had just, I can't remember.

I had just

no.

I hate you.

One time I did it.

No, I'm not going to.

Round round?

I'm not going to tell that story.

Never mind.

I had a young, I was like, you know, I just started NFL Network and had a young quarterback coach come up to me and be like, hey, are you Ian?

And I'm like, yeah, he goes, hey, I'm, you know, I just started out.

I'm the quarterbacks coach for the Denver Broncos.

My name is Adam Gase.

And I was like, oh, hey, Adam, like, I'm me in rapport.

And like, that's how I met him.

Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, like, he's Peyton Banny's quarterback coach.

Like, that's cool.

Like, maybe that will be like a thing.

And then he ends up being a two-time coach in the NFL and the most prolific offense ever and i'm like wow like this happens people forget and so

i mean or his eyes rolling around his head when he was talking to the event

we were both a little okay so maybe okay maybe yeah but that's but those moments are weird because it's like you go from like all right quarterbacks coach and then like oh he's kind of picking up stims like oh he's the hot name and like i remember when ben johnson was in

Miami and he was kind of like just a guy, you know, he was a good young coach.

And then like, and it's just weird.

Like, you have to re-evaluate who these people are all the time.

Yeah, thinking about Mike McDaniel.

I had no idea who Mike McDaniel was when he got hired.

Didn't even know.

Now,

genuinely, if you told me to pick out Mike McDaniel from a, you know, from a, from a line, I wouldn't have been able to when he got hired.

When he got hired, he was a nobody.

When he got hired?

Yeah, when he got hired, he was, what was he, the run game coordinator of the 49ers?

Sorry, not a nobody, but

to like, typically you're thinking of like ocs and dcs and you know coaches who maybe took a year off or something like that and he was kind of the first like hey random run game coordinator is now the head coach and then you know two years later everybody's doing the motions or trying to do the motions that he like basically started and it's just crazy how fast it happens and it's also crazy how much

like insane, insane knowledge is in the NFL and places that you wouldn't even guess.

Mike Greenberg.

Mike McDaniel was the guy who Kyle Shanahan kept around because he was like his

run game guru, essentially.

And

would never go anywhere without him.

And I'm like, I don't know who this guy is, but I guess maybe Kyle thinks he's good.

He's a head coach.

I always thought that was pretty interesting, too.

You know, that he got all the credit for the 49ers run game when you're like, you're running.

Shanahan's dad was the one who kind of did all that.

But hey, by all means, let's.

Mike McDaniel's the genius.

You want us to cry?

Yeah, go ahead and cry.

I mean, this is going to be a very interesting year for the Dolphins.

Like, he's gotten, he is like extremely

is he at the top?

Is he the number one, would you say, hot seat?

Yeah.

I mean,

who else is really even on the hot seat?

Giants would be a

bowl.

You know, Giants would be sort of there.

You know, I don't think the Titans, because if Cam Ward is...

Yeah, he's new quarterback.

Right.

But like, the crazy, I mean, in Indy, but I hate this because, you know, they haven't played, like, Giants could be,

defense could be really good.

Yeah.

Russ, if he plays like the Russ from the first little bit of last year, they are going to be absolutely fine.

You know, I got a question about one.

Okay.

Sean McDermott.

Like,

how long in your mind, and again, if I, I'm a Patriots fan at this current moment, it'd be great to be a Bills fan.

Okay, I understand that.

But, like, how long

do you think it's going to be?

Because it's hard to imagine they ever just fall off and win seven games.

Like that's never going to happen with Josh Allen unless he gets hurt and something terrible happens.

Like what Jarvis.

Even still.

Even still, yeah.

Like they're going to be in it.

How many times,

like, how many chances does he have?

Like, actually.

So this is a great question.

And this is one that I think about a lot because it's like, it's the same way when you have a player, you're like, can't win the big one.

I'm like, that is nonsense.

Like, sometimes you lose.

Like,

I will never be convinced that Josh Allen can't win the big one.

Yes, Patrick Mahomes is great.

So, like, sometimes Mahomes, like, but there's nothing there that, like, stops him, right?

And so, like.

Well, he doesn't have, like, what happens with Shanahan.

Like, Shanahan, people say this, but the Niners, you see, like, the, like, people get hurt.

They've been snake bit in multiple seasons.

Like, with the Bills, they also have been sneaked.

They've been snake bit in some

senses.

Yeah, they're different.

But they just.

Which is a speciality.

Yeah.

And that may be.

And I'm a Sean McDermott.

I think he's a good coach.

I like it.

I think he's a pretty good coach.

But

if I'm thinking from an owner perspective, that would probably be the one thing that would make me have a switch.

Like, okay, I got to get an offensive guy.

Yeah.

Who maybe we just got, like, whatever the case.

This isn't working.

We've had number one defenses.

We've had this.

We've had that.

Maybe I'll move from offensive guy, move on from Sean for an offensive guy just to get that extra whatever out of Josh Allen.

But I mean, if you're looking around the league, I think Sean McDermott is still easily in the top, you know, probably 12 of coaches.

But when you have an MVP caliber quarterback, an MVP quarterback, you know, you want to win a big one.

You got to win it.

Just get the

in that sense, too, then, like, what about Zach Taylor?

Like, because it's like, hey, how long are we?

Like, that's awesome.

You're, you know, an offensive guy, and a lot of people say that, you know, Burroughs should have won MVP last year, but...

you know, like, you got to make the playoffs.

You know, you can't, you can't survive on, hey, we went to the Super Bowl forever.

And, like, they, they've kind of put, I mean, they need to win offensively.

But, like, if they start 0-3 again or, you know, whatever the case, like, how much time is

left?

Yeah, I mean, Joe Burrow is so good, and I think the offense is going to be so good.

And they made a change of defensive coordinator that was

debated, like, hotly debated.

Like, Lou Anaruma was a very good defensive coordinator.

They chose they wanted to go in a different direction.

I think that's surprised some people, including me.

If they start like that, and they've done everything to start fast, playing guys in the preseason.

So if it doesn't work, the Bengals have traditionally been very patient.

So I think they'll be okay.

But I see what you're saying because at some point it's like, all right, like you got Joe Burrow.

Now, Zach Taylor helped make Joe Burrow,

but the Bills thing is also interesting, right?

Like, because I was thinking about what you said, Debut.

Sean McDermott, I do not believe is in any trouble.

Okay.

Let's just state.

I do not believe he is in trouble at all, nor nor should he be.

However, Joe Brady is their offensive coordinator.

Joe Brady is going to be a hot head coach candidate this year.

At some point, they may lose him.

So do the, like, you know, this is the teams that faced this decision before.

The Bucs did it, and they ended up with Dirk Cutter, which didn't work out.

So it's like, that's the only thing where I'm like, Joe Brady is going to leave if it's some sort of disappointing season, which I do not expect.

What happens?

The Bucs are going to have to deal with that this year again.

Losing Liam.

He had a great, great probably not probably a baker mayfield's best year yes then you lose that's always the thing you're dealing with like patrick mahomes you're never going to deal with that until andy reed decides to retire sean mcvay stafford um jalen hurts has been successful with a bunch of different offensive coordinators new one new one this year yeah you know siriani has some some input on the offense so uh that's always for me a combination you know lamar jackson's been he's won mvps with multiple coordinators so you do have quarterbacks who can play with multiple any coordinators but a lot of times it comes down to

two-minute drives, you know, getting a field goal or a touchdown and having that quarterback play caller been on that set.

We always see all the behind the scenes with Mahomes and Andy Reid.

Hey, let's call this play.

Let's go to this one.

So, I mean, it is important, but, you know, I think Sean's a great coach.

I think they have good pieces in place.

They built the teams.

They've been in it at the end.

It just comes down to a handful of plays, and that always makes a difference.

But, you know, we have Michael Jordan in the league right now.

It's going to be tough to to get one well he's also a legitimate head coach and i feel like that yeah is like like that was my biggest thing i mean you talk about zach taylor like that was my biggest thing with floor before they got halfly it's like hey i understand you're an unbelievable offensive mind like you're not the oc you're the head coach so like what the defense does is also on your plate you can't just be like well my offense is unbelievable my defense has been horse shit for the last it's like it doesn't work like that when you're the head coach halfly was a good hire i i

did not expect that and i was sort of like ah but he's been really good But that's the thing, like, with the Bengals, too.

I mean, and you kind of threw in there, and me and Ty chimed in a little bit.

Like, Zach Taylor didn't fucking make Joe Burrow, first of all.

But Joe Burrow won the Heisman.

This is the same argument I have with Belichick and Brady.

Well,

again, that's my point exactly.

Belichick and Brady, Baker and Bowles.

Like,

there's a thing where if you have a quarterback, that is like a Joe Burrow.

You don't need some fucking guru.

You really just need a guy that is going to do what Joe Burrow says.

And also, to be fair,

when you are a team, you know, and you have a quarterback in two number ones, which Tampa, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, you know, Bengals,

same exact thing.

It's like, hey, offense, as far as coaching goes, I know it's very important, but when you have an MVP guy at wide receiver and quarterback, like, does it really fucking matter what play is coming through the wire?

Even with the, like, matters.

Like, right now, when we're talking about Josh Allen and we're saying, like, you know, Sean McDermott, he's a defensive guy.

Do we, do we hang on to Joe Brady just in case?

Like, that doesn't make any sense to me because

Josh Allen has had success before and after Joe Brady.

I know he didn't win an MVP, but typically when we were talking about Josh Allen, it was more so like, hey, why the fuck is he throwing it across the field 60 yards down the field versus like, man, this play cost.

I mean, part of part of that is on coaching, though, because

usually the power dynamic in the organization, like that quarterback, once you're a franchise quarterback, like you're, you know, you're, unless you have an Andy Reid or Bill Belichick or that type of coach, but you also have to have a coach.

And I was speaking to Joe Burrow, seeing more of him on quarterback and even like his personality.

Like,

he's going to be a lead by example guy, but like Brady, Manning, Breeze, like they'll get after guys.

Like they'll set the tone of the game that week.

Off defense could be on the field and you'll still hear Brady talking shit as far as execution, things like that.

Not to say that Joe Burrow is any less of a quarterback.

That's just his different personality.

So that's when you need that head coach or whoever to kind of, because we always talk about teams take on the identity of the head coach.

It's what people say you see in Miami.

And then what you see in Detroit with Dan Campbell.

Nobody will look at Dan Campbell and say, oh, he's a genius.

But you know how his team is going to come out and compete week in and week out.

So the talent, everybody's going to be talented.

And obviously, when you're talking about Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, those guys on a different level talent-wise, but the coaching still matters, like game planning, like the tempo of the play calls, changing up tempos, got to have it plays.

Like, Josh Allen, he's a great player.

You know, Ken Dorsey got fired.

You know,

that, that, that

never happened.

I mean, you mentioned it, like, Lamar changed completely when Todd Muncin got there.

Yeah, and he needed that.

It was time for him to, and he was an MVP quarterback with Greg Roman, but it was was time for him to

evolution of his game.

Steve Young came out years ago and was like, you need that.

He's going to need someone to put him in a sophisticated pass game to expand his offer.

Because we saw him do it in college.

It wasn't like a guy who ran triple option in college.

He slung the ball with Petrino at Louisville.

So you definitely need that.

These guys are supremely uber talented, but you still need coaches to kind of set the tone throughout the week, throughout the game, throughout the season.

And when you're a head coach, obviously that goes beyond just one side of the ball.

When would you say like Brady, Manning, and Breeze, and you might not know this shit, but like, when would you say that does settle in though?

Where it's like, okay,

like this, like, do you think Burrow and Allen and Lamar and Mahomes are at the point now when like Brady and Breeze and Manning finally became like the, hey, this is my fucking shit.

I'm going to settle.

Pat is already doing it.

Pat's already there.

Yeah,

but Andy runs such a tight ship.

It's a lot that Pat, I was just from the outside looking in.

And we see so much more now, too, than we saw, you know, back in the day.

That's so like, I'm sure it's things that Pat doesn't necessarily have to do, but once Pat speaks, you know, everybody's going to follow.

That's the general.

But I don't, I don't know.

And all these quarterbacks that, like, their personalities are so different.

Like, Aaron Rodgers, he completely different personality than, you know, Phillip Rivers.

Like, these guys are good quarterbacks, but personality.

is a big part just like any workplace like the CEOs or those people in position like people are gonna kind of follow that guy in the battle.

You know, that's what it is on Sundays.

But so Lamar, Josh, you know, Joe, all these guys are the unquestioned leaders of their team.

But then we see Lamar, you see how he leads.

Like he leads in his very unique way.

And I've seen him get after guys more.

He gives that, but that's not the only thing I'm looking for.

You can tell he's working his ass off Monday through Saturday because that's the only way you can talk.

to grown men a certain way and check them if you're showing up and you're being accountable, you know, day to day too.

Well, and Pat tells the story, you know, he has a couple times about Peyton where it's like when he came in with the Colts, like he interviewed them.

They didn't interview, which I feel like is very rare.

So it's almost like he came in and he was like, hey, if you pick me, like, this is my fucking Joe right away.

So like,

let's not get this crossed at all.

And obviously, like, he's one-on-one.

There aren't a whole lot of guys like that.

Brady obviously wasn't afforded that opportunity, not being the first pick, but like.

But Burrow was.

Yeah, but you obviously, like, talking about quarterback, like, you just, personality-wise, Joe Burrow is not Peyton Manning like you know, he's much much different and that's like the change of the time too because like I'm assuming they were having the same conversation about Peyton Manning before he won the Super Bowl that we're having about Josh Allen like it took it took Peyton Manning what nine ten

ten years just to win a Super Bowl so it's not like crazy it's not as if you know these guys are never gonna win or one Super Bowl will will be enough but it it it's one of those situations where every year if it's Mahomes, Allen, you know, Burrow in Lamar, like there is a chance that two of those guys just never end up with one

because of how good Mahomes is, man.

It's crazy.

So much shit around him got to go right, too.

Yeah.

That's kind of why.

It has to be, like, lightning has to strike.

Yeah, it's like

defense.

You look at Mahomes.

Great defense, great special teams, great ownership.

What's going on in Buffalo?

I think they have a really good ownership.

Philadelphia, good ownership, good front office.

You know, so you're going to be be Baltimore.

They've always been great in the front office ownership-wise.

So, yeah, the talent and the quarterback is a big part of it.

But all the other shit that goes into it, because you can look at almost any playoff run, rarely do you just see an offense just

like an Ohio State in the College Football playoffs.

No, some point in time, a defense is going to have to win a game, a 17 to 13 game, and then the offense gets hot or something like that.

Joe Flacco, when he went on his run, Joe Flacco got hot and play out his mind.

He turned the ball with a good defense.

So a lot of shit got to go right in football.

It's not like basketball.

Where it's like, all right, we got Braun, we got Wade, we got Bosch.

We're going to be in the finals every year.

Like all that other shit organizationally has to, you know, be right and in place.

So that's the other thing to look at when you look at these quarterbacks that are in a position to compete.

That's why this is the best.

Oh, yeah.

For 20 years, 20 years it was.

We're almost here.

It was Brady Manning and Big Ben.

And Joe had that one run.

Like the Ravens, like, if you're one of those teams, you have to have everything has to line up perfectly.

Yeah.

Hell yeah.

You guys are the best.

I appreciate you very much.

Great job.

You're done.

Much better today.

Yeah, well done, round.

Maybe you're much more comfortable.

Yeah, Max.

You don't want to embarrass yourself in front of your boy.

Yeah.

Sweet.

Who paid very, very close attention.

Of course not.

But was so excited to be here and just walk around and play with all the things.

You guys are awesome.

No comments on whether or not I'll be back at some point in the near future.

Okay.

You guys enjoy whoever you have over the next couple weeks.

And that's all we have from the Pat McAfee show.

I'm going to say goodbye.

So you put that.

You can do like a team on three thing.

Team on me, team on three.

Are you guys punking me again?

No, no, no.

We actually do it.

You don't watch the program?

Every day.

I watch until the end of the YouTube.

Obviously.

I say what?

One, two, three, two.

You clearly don't.

Team on me, team on three, one, two, three.

Team.

Team on me, team on three, one, two, three.

Team.

Team.

Yes.

Nailed it.

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