Money Issues Aren't the Problem, They’re the Symptom

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This is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their life, specifically their money, their work, and their relationships.

And we are so glad that you have joined us today alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw.

I'm Ken Coleman, and the phone number for you to jump in today is 888-825-5225.

Triple 8-825-5225.

Get you in the conversation.

You ready to go, partner?

Let's get it.

Beth is up in Texas.

Beth, how can we help you today?

Hi, Dave.

Thanks for taking my call.

I'm having a little conflict with my husband, and I wanted your input on the situation.

Sure.

For a little background, when we first started the baby steps, we were both working full-time, and we decided to take a small allowance and put the rest on the joint account and pay the bills and, you know, do the snowball.

I physically paid the bills because he'd been kind of inconsistent before, so over the time, it just kind of became my job.

About two and a half years ago, I became totally disabled, and now all I get is a Social Security disability check.

But his income grew, and he never told me.

And I just found out that he's been keeping $2,600 a month of income that I didn't know he was making.

Now, $400 of that does go to a second retirement account.

He's already retired once and gets a retirement check.

And when I brought it up and tried to discuss all this, he refused to deposit or put any of the extra money toward the bills and just absolutely refused to discuss it.

How did you find out?

Well,

I did what you said, and when I had, you know, became disabled, I called my creditors and started working with them.

And I was working with the IRS to forgive a tax debt.

And so I needed a copy of his latest pay stub.

And I can read a pay stub, and first one I'd seen in like 12 years, and discovered what he had been doing.

And he admitted it.

And when I asked him why he was doing it and didn't tell me he had been making more money and more side jobs, he said, because if I told you, you'd take all my money.

Interesting.

So what was he spending it on?

I mean, he said the 400 to retirement, but is there anything to show for this money?

Or was it just the drive for it?

Yeah, he has about $200 in personal bills that he pays, bills that he said, you know, I'm going to take this on, but I'm going to pay for it out of my money.

How long have you guys been married?

Almost 23 years.

And you've had separate accounts the entire time?

Well, no, we have the joint account.

This is a second marriage for both of us.

So we had our own personal accounts when we came into the relationship.

So we just used our personal accounts for our allowance, and then all the rest of the money was put into the joint.

But at the time,

I had a different

knowledge of what his income was.

And as it grew, he wasn't going to be able to see that.

Yeah, but you weren't seeing the money in the joint account.

Yeah, he was having, I thought the whole thing was being auto-deposited.

But what he was doing was he was splitting some to go into his personal account, some to go into a savings account, and the rest to go into the joint account.

All right, my partner here is about ready to pop here.

What do you think?

Well, I wanted to make sure I understood both sides of the story, but you kind of laid it out for me in that, you know, you said you each have individual accounts, but then you have this joint account, right?

Did I hear that right?

Right.

Yeah, the joint account is where we put all supposedly all the money.

Okay, but there's, there's, there's a crack there.

There's a, there's a leak in that, in that pipe because now you've created, you've, you've eliminated transparency.

When you said my check goes into my account first, and then I am being trusted to then put the full amount into this joint account or to put the amount that I say into this joint account.

Because my question for you then would be, does he have the login and passwords to your personal account?

And do you have the logins and account to his personal account?

And did you before all this happened?

No.

Okay, so that's where I say

the point of combining, the point of combining finances is not just to say, and we have this joint account that we put some money in.

The point of it is complete transparency and trust.

That's at the core of why we do that.

And so that's where there was a a hiccup in this plan.

And

what I think without you intending it and maybe without him intending it are two things.

Number one, when you say,

when you both agree to eliminate that transparency, then it also invites the ability to hide things.

Yeah, and I mean, if you can't trust your husband, who can you trust?

But you have said, you have said that you don't trust each other because you opened this by saying, this is our second marriage and, which means there's a caveat there.

because it's our second marriage we don't trust each other as much because it's our second marriage we've decided to do things a little different because it's our second marriage we have our own accounts that has a lot of implication in it based on what you were saying Yeah, I see what you're saying.

You know what I mean?

I was just mentioning, I was just mentioning it was our second marriage as an explanation as to why we had our own account.

Exactly.

And I'm agreeing with you.

But what I really wanted to ask you, what I really wanted to ask you, Beth, was the thing that you said when you asked him about it.

And he said, well, I'm afraid she'll take all of it yeah is that is there any truth to that good or bad you'll take well okay so

Dave said gazelle and I am like you know uber gazelle and maybe I was guilty of being a little bit too frisky on going to go down really fast okay you know I might plead guilty to that okay but so and I'm not saying don't get me wrong it's no excuse for him to have been dishonest with you but I think there's a little, what I'm saying is I think there's room for both of you guys to budge on this.

What I was listening for, Beth, is a bad guy.

You know, I'm listening to see, is this a bad guy?

Is this a guy who's really disrespecting her?

Is this a guy who,

you know, that we need to put in his place?

But I don't, Ken, what do you think?

I don't think so.

Well,

I don't think he may be a bad guy, but he's a bad husband.

Well,

he.

So what's your, so here's my question, Beth.

What is your question for us?

Because this is pretty awful stuff.

This has got to be shaking you.

So how can we help today?

Because this is a massive marriage problem that involves very intentional therapy.

Yes?

100%.

Well, when I became disabled, you know, it was my job to pay the bills, run the household.

I take care of everything.

When I became disabled two and a half years ago, that did not stop.

And so trying to manage the same bills and reconcile the ones that we couldn't pay and dealing with creditors, that fell on me.

And I've been very very sick for two and a half years and so um i just in in anger when i discovered this i told him i said you know i tried to discuss it and i said you know i'm not going to take all your money but we agreed on an allowance and since i went on social security disability i felt guilty taking an allowance so i put my entire check

and so here here beth here is where i want to jump in because this is where the issue is.

Again, I want to be very clear.

What he did was wrong.

He should not have treated the money that way.

He should not have been duplicitous in that way.

However,

there is

an unhealthiness in how the money is being handled also on your end.

And I can tell you, adults don't like being treated like children.

And so for him,

I could understand being feeling like, hey, I go to work all day.

I give my money over to my spouse and they give me an allowance and I've been busting my butt all day.

People don't like that.

So what we would suggest and what I would suggest here is you guys really do have to be on one accord with this, which is we both work.

We decide together how our money is being spent.

We're going to decide what goes on to bills.

We are going to have everything in one joint account, not accounts off to the side, but we get paid into the same account so we can all see it full transparency.

And then we decide how much Beth are you going to spend on fun?

How much is he going to spend on fun?

And we see it together.

And if you, Beth, choose not to spend your fun money, that's your choice.

He's still a man and wants to feel like he can.

Yeah, I see your side, but I also think that this is a marriage problem.

And we got to find out pretty quick if he's willing to fix this marriage problem.

Both of you come to the table, own both of your stuff, and see if we can have a clear path forward.

That's our answer.

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All right, let's go to Ryan, who's joining us now in Mississippi.

Ryan, how can we help today?

Hi, Ken.

Hi, Jay.

How are y'all doing?

Great.

Good.

I just, I feel like I got a complicated question, but I'll try to keep it simple.

So I'm a traveling preacher.

I hold revivals throughout the country.

And I also hold down a full-time job.

I do probably, on average, probably one revival

a month on average.

So that requires a lot of travel.

I'm putting roughly 50,000 miles a year at least on my vehicles.

And I'm caught in a cycle of going upside down on cars.

I really like to get rid of having the car payment altogether because it's holding me back from other financial goals.

But I can't seem, it's like my last vehicle I got it paid for.

As soon as I got it paid for, my plan was to drive it until I saved it for another.

but it broke down had to replace the motor long story short I wound up going in debt on another car because I had to have a reliable vehicle so I just wondering what do y'all suggest I do

to

to just kind of break this cycle okay so you do one of these

revival meetings a month is your average so that's 12 on average there's some there's some months that I may not have anything and then I may have two or three things crammed in one month but on average you you know it's all right so that tells me

okay so that tells me just I'm going somewhere with this so that tells me we can work off of 12 travel events a year correct

close to that probably all right plus the full-time didn't you say you hold down a job too yeah but we're talking about these I do so when I'm when I'm home and I'm not traveling I work a job that brings in roughly 50,000 a year okay you're making fifty thousand a year there what how are you getting paid are you getting paid through offerings and then how much Give me a number.

And again, we're working off a 12 because the solution I'm going to propose here,

it doesn't matter if it's 12 of these or 15, but you're somewhere in the 12 to 15 range.

We've established that, okay?

So how are you getting paid for these revival meetings?

It varies, but, you know, based on church size and what they're able to do, I don't require anything, but they generally take care of me, you know, my travel expenses, and I usually have some left over.

But I'm also, while I'm gone doing that, I'm not getting paid for my regular job.

Okay, what's the average?

How much are you making per weekend?

Roughly.

Probably 800 to 1,000 for a week.

And that's not just the extra right.

That's not just the extra right.

That's them taking care of you with food and whatever else you might need.

That's usually the offering.

Most of the time, they will cover your food and lodging.

Okay, I have a very simple solution.

I've been trying to kind of play this out.

I'm just going to go ahead and jump ahead because we're getting distracted here.

You just need to be flying to these places.

If you're making somewhere between $800 to $1,000 on this thing and they're paying your expenses, instead of you driving all over creation, which if you have a Monday through Friday job and you've got to drive from wherever you are in Mississippi to Ohio and you have to take off time for work, that's just not being very smart.

And you're going to these things.

These are weekend deals, correct?

Most of them are going to run all week long.

They're going to run like a Sunday through Friday.

Well, this is just.

Most of them will be three days.

Okay.

So my, so here's, okay.

So if it's all week and I'm missing time, so I'm eating into my vacation time and I've got my $50,000 a year job, and let's just say 12 times 800 is 9,600, right?

Is that right?

Is that my amount?

Sure.

You know, for all of this wear and tear on the car, and I know this is a ministry thing for you, and I'm not in any way trying to talk you out of it, but the way you're going about this doesn't make a lot of sense to put all this mileage on the car.

Most of the time, I also take my wife and kids.

Does that play into that?

It might.

It might need to play into it.

I wouldn't.

This has got to be more efficient.

This is basically, you are bivocational.

Would you, would you agree with that?

Yes.

Okay.

So if it's a, if I'm bivocational, I can't have one side of the equation pulling me down financially.

Now, I could have gone another path because I know my partner is going to go this direction.

You didn't have to go into debt for a car.

This whole idea that I have to go into debt and all this kind of thing, you don't have to do that.

What you've got to do a better job is, is that if I'm going to go get paid to preach,

then that needs to be a better economic model.

Now, I'm going to tell you something.

I know your model because I grew up in a small Baptist church.

My dad's a pastor, retired now, and we had guys like you come in.

But for you to be doing that week, a full week at a time, you have to start to ask yourself, is that the best play?

Or is it better for me to then fill pulpits on the weekend?

which is also a play where you're an interim pastor and you can hold down a job, plus preach and make money?

And so I'm challenging you that the way you started the call, and I want Jay to come in and take over here on the money piece, but what I heard was a guy who felt like I'm in prison to my ministry.

And I think that's faulty thinking.

And there is a way for you to fill that vocational ministry desire and not have it penalize you financially.

So yeah, I wouldn't take my wife and kids.

That's more expenses.

I wouldn't drive everywhere.

I'd have people fly me in.

They're planning far enough in advance that they can get you a pretty reasonable ticket and it should be less than $800.

You're not going to California and doing revivals.

I know that.

So, I just want to challenge you to rework your model and do it in a way that is actually financially advantageous, not something that pulls you down.

Okay.

Yeah,

I agree with Ken 100% on this.

I think you do need to get more efficient because part of,

how can I say this in a way that doesn't sound judgmental?

Because I'm not judging you at all, but part of that integrity that you're preaching from and teaching from, there is a financial component to that.

And we want that to feel consistent across our life.

I think you will feel better having dealt with this and making sure, first, let me make sure my house is in order, make sure that I'm not leaving my family in debt, putting us in a financially precarious situation.

Does that make sense?

And that way there's

that firm footing across the board.

That's kind of where my thought and head was on this.

And I think Ken spoke to it beautifully.

So get out of debt, right?

So let's write the ship.

Let's get back in line with, well, wait a second.

Maybe the next couple of calls I take, I say, hey, here's the deal.

I can't do a full week.

I can do a weekend.

And and here's what I'm gonna require and can I follow can I use a follow-up question sure

so okay so the the debt that I'm in now I want to ask a question about the best way to go about getting out of that

so the vehicle has 52,000 miles and it's I owe 33 on it I bought it when I when I got it I was not upside down on it when I went into it but now because of the miles I put on it I'm already 7,000 upside down okay so 7,000 upside down

should I should I sell it and try to get out of debt, or should I try to pay it off early and continue driving it?

Well, let's figure whether we can pay it off early because if we think you can get this thing paid off in a year and a half, two years, then I'd probably keep it.

But it depends on what other debt you have.

Do you have any other debt?

Just my house.

Oh, just the house.

Okay, and that's it.

No credit cards, no student loans?

No.

Okay, then if I were you making $50,000, does your wife make anything?

No, she stay-at-home mom.

How many kids?

Three.

How old are they?

I have twins that are about to be 12, and I have a nine-year-old daughter.

Okay, she needs to be bringing in an income, especially with you doing this.

Even if it's just for a short season until you guys get this 33,000 paid off, because for now, if you are going to do more driving, I agree with Ken that you should try to fly to more to more of these.

But in the interim, if you are doing more driving, it could be a good idea to keep this car and just pay it off quickly.

And if your wife can pick up a thousand or two thousand bucks a month, you guys can do that very quickly.

And I would suggest that.

I really, I'm going to tell you this.

And again, my dad does this.

He's retired, but he is an interim pastor.

And so he fills churches where they're looking to replace somebody that's left.

They're looking for a senior pastor.

I think right now at this season, I'd press pause on the current revival rhythm.

I don't think it makes sense for you.

And I don't think you're being a good steward.

A week away from your full-time job where you're making uh five days a week 800 bucks that's not great man

so I think

I make that I make that aside from so even being gone

I get it I'm not changing my opinion I'm not changing my opinion yeah I think you need to rework what you're doing because it's not working for you

and then you figure out how can I make money doing ministry but I'm filling interim roles while being at home I pay my car off mama needs a part-time job at least helping out right now.

And then you dig out.

Listen, you know the scripture on this.

So oof, you got to eat, you know, what you're cooking.

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Anthony is joining us now in Kentucky.

Anthony, how can we help?

Hi, I appreciate you guys taking my call.

I

recently lost everything.

My ex committed domestic violence in another state, and

I had to flee with our one-year-old son.

So I'm a single father.

So sorry, man.

It's been about three weeks since I've been back home, and I thought I would have help from my family.

And

I have one aunt that watches them while I work, and that's it.

My mom

came around one morning.

I was at her house talking about how I owe her three grand from when my son was born.

She made me buy the car seat that she bought him for his birthday.

Then

my cousin's been just lying about me, saying that I gave up custody of my son to her and everything.

So I've basically been on my own since I've been back down here.

I just

got help from my church.

They

put us in a hotel room.

They took me around to

get me a job.

I'm a server now at a local restaurant.

Good.

And

I

recently maxed out student loans.

I start school on Monday.

And

I just, I don't know what to do.

Well, here's what I want you to do.

Here's what I want you to do.

Okay.

I literally want you right now to take a deep breath.

You don't have to do it in the phone, but I want you to take a deep breath.

Okay?

Okay.

All right.

Now, let's just start walking through this.

So,

why are you starting school?

What are we doing?

Why are we going to school?

Honestly, it's

the only way that I could see that I could get a large lump sum of money to get a car and a place as soon as possible.

Okay, so hold on.

So, I have an interest in going to school.

Like, I'm going for something that I'm going for psychology.

I have

a huge interest in it.

I want to do this right now.

You pulled out more than what you would need to make sure you have

to pay it.

Yeah,

it's student loans, it's financial aid.

Okay.

How much?

I took out $9,500 for the whole school year.

I got $7,300 for my Pell Grant, where I'm a single father.

So I'll have about 16 split into two semesters.

And

like after tuition and books and all that, it'll come out to around $6,000 a semester for this semester and next semester.

How are you going to go to school and work enough to be able to take care of your son and find a place to live?

Have you thought through this?

Yeah,

I'm doing online school.

There are only prerequisites right now.

So

I work in the evenings.

I work 4 to 10, and my aunt is watching him basically exclusively while I'm at work.

And then

just, I want to see what I can do, like grind out as much as I can, school work, get ahead as much as I can, and just save as much money as I can.

Okay.

Well, you've already pulled out the loan, but for the future, can we just quickly cover the fact that that's not the way to get ahead financially?

Because had you called us a week ago before you did this, I would have said, let's press pause on the psychology degree and let's get our life stable.

And I'm loving that you got into a local church and the church is helping you, but taking out a loan for living expenses is not the answer.

And so I would not do this much further.

I want Jade to kind of jump in here and walk you out of this deal.

But is there, just quickly, is there a specific question you had for us today?

Because I understand your situation and it's tough.

But before she covers that and going forward, is there anything else that you were specifically asking?

Just

what are my next steps?

Like now that I have taken out the loan, now that, like, just what can I do from you to give my son the best possible outcome from this?

Perfect.

All right.

So I really want Ken to hit the work part because right now you said you're working from four to ten.

How much are you bringing home?

What's your income right now?

Let's see if that's a livable wage.

Right now I average about 200 good days.

I make a little over $300 a day.

Okay.

And what's that breakdown to a month right quick?

So I just started Wednesday.

I don't have that

off the top of my head, but

I'm making

around, yeah.

Okay, so the first things first is you're in the hotel right now.

So first things first is we need to say, okay, what do we need with our 4,000 bucks a month?

Where's an apartment near me?

I want you to do some apartment homework and find out what's near you that you can get 4,000 bucks a month.

Okay, so where you are, I'm not sure, but see what you can find, even if it means,

you know, finding somebody at that church that's maybe renting out, you know, a rental space, room over the garage.

Get really, really creative and don't just take the first option that comes to you so that's thing one finding a place to live um and then you've got the support of your aunt and i want to i want you to really talk with her and make sure she understands what she's she's signed up for which is hey life's going to be tough for me for a while i need to know i can count on you and really make sure you're building into that relationship because she's your lifeline right now uh so that's thing two is making sure that you are really uh

opening up the lines of communication with her and making sure she understands what she's in for.

And then after that, I'm inclined right now because I think you did the school thing out of fear and out of like trying to find a way out.

I don't think you have a clear path there yet.

If I were you, I'd turn around and give that money right back.

I was going to ask if you could do that.

I didn't know.

Pay it right off.

Take the money, turn around, pay it right off and be done because you haven't given it to anybody yet.

And that's not the way that you want to buy a car.

It's going to cause you so much headache because you're making an income.

You just need to give it a chance to play out.

That's right.

So give that money back.

And then Ken is going to set you up with when you're able to decide if you even need to go to school.

Kelly, let's give him, Anthony, we're going to give you my book, The Get Clear Career Assessment, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

Take 18 to 20 minutes on this and

let's get some results and start ideating on what a path looks like in the near future, not right away.

But here's the deal.

The reason I told you to take a deep breath is you've been through a lot, but I can tell you, you've landed well.

And the ant is a saint, and now it's doing exactly what Jade said.

Let's work as much as we can.

I mean, as much as we can.

I love giving the money back.

Pause all education and let's get stable because you need to heal.

And getting healthy and stable will allow you to get clear and confident on your future.

Hang on, we're going to take care of you.

Okay, Rachel, the internet officially knows too much about all of us.

So much, George.

I mean, our names, our addresses, even our relatives' names.

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All right, let's go to Christy, who's joining us now in Texas.

Christy, how can we help?

Hi.

Here is Christy.

Yes, I know.

Hi, how are you?

Thank you.

I'm not doing too well, but thank you for taking my phone call.

Okay, we're here for you.

What's going on?

my husband was not able to be on my our home loan we when we bought our home so his mother volunteered volunteered herself and co-signed so her and i are on the on the mortgage he committed suicide in december oh that put our that put our family in a huge um my son and i were both there when he did it um oh my gosh i'm so sorry i don't even know what to say

I couldn't, I couldn't work for months.

My son and I are both in therapy.

I have PTSD.

I have complex grief.

I have trauma-induced psychosis.

So it's just, but I am working.

Like I couldn't work for the first three, three and a half months, but I'm doing great now.

Like with therapy, therapy is helping so much.

But I am working.

I am.

So with her being on

our mortgage,

I need her to sign off on anything.

So my mortgage company has been amazing.

So they let them know exactly what happened, and

they put us in forbearance for a little bit.

and then they were putting us in like a loss mitigation where they've decided themselves that they were just going to forgive what was owed.

I mean, the few months that I had owed, they were just going to forgive it.

And it was, I just had to sign it.

My mother-in-law had to sign it.

So, this was back in end of March, beginning of April.

So, she had to sign it.

And so, she

I sent her the papers a few times.

She kept missing the deadline, so I'd have to get them reprinted by the mortgage.

I just got a letter from her lawyer yesterday.

She's not going to sign them.

Why not?

There's no reason.

Well, the reason from the lawyer was that they said they don't think that I can make the payments, which I have.

I was.

I was like, my husband had actually been depressed that whole year.

I was making all the payments.

What is the payment?

It is $2,100 a month.

And how much do you earn?

I earn between $5,500 and $6,000.

That's, I mean, that's between.

And then now I get Social Security.

And how much is that?

$2,400.

Okay.

So

the mother, is it mother-in-law or your mother?

Mother-in-law.

So what happens?

So I'm tracking.

So what happens?

Let's just assume we can't change her mind.

What is the arrangement now with your mortgage company?

They know all this.

It seems like they've been very kind to you and they know what you're up against.

Have you told them, hey, my mother-in-law is not playing ball and she's not going to sign?

Right.

And they've given me the option to refinance.

Of course, him passing away in December, those few months that I wasn't making any payments.

I wasn't making credit card payments.

I wasn't, the crazy thing is I have caught up on most of the credit cards.

I've paid off any bills that we were behind.

I paid off my bills.

But you said they gave you the opportunity to refinance.

Yeah, what did they tell me?

That's what we want.

So you can get her off the loan.

They won't allow me because I don't have a 620 credit score because my credit went down when i wasn't paying bills okay so what's the other option sounds like you talked to them so what are they saying yeah um foreclosure and i'm trying to keep my home

i've got children i'm trying to keep my home what keeps what do you have to do to get out of foreclosure

i have to pay how much i'm behind how much right now with with all the fees it's like 18 000.

You have any cash at all?

I do, but nothing near that.

I mean, and I'm going to go ahead and

do that.

so listen we're trying to work through this so i just need i know you're under it right now but we're just trying to work through this so let's go one question at a time how much cash do you have

about

four thousand okay so we need fourteen thousand

next well next question before we land on this being the right uh option was there trauma in that house Trauma, yes.

Yeah, he committed to his house.

Right.

Okay, which is why I'm going to suggest that we sell this house.

Yeah.

You don't need to live in this house.

And this is a trauma-filled house.

And right now it is a major source of stress.

You need to sell the house.

And then you're free and clear of the mother-in-law.

Whatever, if there's proceeds that come out of it, you guys split it, go your separate ways.

And you need to start over

and create a new life that is not inclusive of this house.

I'm just afraid that I can't afford to purchase a house like I bought it with two income.

I understand.

You will, because here's the thing.

You just got through explaining to to me why you can afford a $2,100 a month mortgage.

And you can.

You're making $8,000 a month now, including the Social Security.

Now, here's the thing.

It's going to take some time, but you're rebuilding a life.

It's not like you just pushed pause and now we're pushing play again on a fully built life.

You're starting over because you've had this major trauma take place.

Let's look at the numbers, though.

And by the way, I'm glad you jumped to that.

I was reacting to what you said.

And I think Jade's right.

The best thing for you to do for multiple reasons, emotional and financial, is sell the house.

So I'm with it.

Let's play this out.

How much could you sell the house for?

Have you looked into this?

When we bought it, it appraised for $275.

I bought it for $205.

Yeah, but that's not.

Okay, so I don't think you know what it's worth today, do you?

I don't.

All right, so here's the deal.

Do you have a real estate professional that you've already used before and you know and trust?

I do, and I've reached out to them.

I'm waiting to hear back.

Okay, great.

So here's the deal.

So step one, they tell you what they think the market bears for that, Okay.

So you owe how much on the home?

I couldn't tell you that number.

I just know what I'm saying.

Well, you need to go get that number.

That's your number one homework is for you to find out what you owe on the house and what it's worth.

And then from there, you can find out, okay, if we sell this house for what they say it's worth or somewhere near it, lowball, I want you to lowball everything so that you're pleasantly surprised.

So Christy, you don't know the numbers, but let's say that you said you bought it for 205.

How many years ago?

A year ago.

Oh, one One year ago?

Okay, so you're probably down to break even.

Yeah, you might break even.

But here's the thing: you may come away with a little bit of cash.

Who knows?

I don't know.

But you got to get those numbers.

So that helps us there.

So maybe renting is going to be the more, I think that's probably the best place.

And it's okay.

It's fine.

Renting is great.

Renting is a preparatory phase for you to buy a house.

That's what it is.

It's time for you to do your research.

It's time for you to save up money.

And in your case, it's time for you to just

have a moment because when you're renting, do you know what's not your problem?

Anytime the AC breaks, anytime the roof breaks, anything, it's not your problem.

And you need a life right now that is very simple with very little problems.

And so I think renting is a great option for you right now in the interim.

There is a time when you're going to buy a house again and it's going to be a joy-filled time.

But right now, it's time for healing and it's time for simplification.

That's right.

And the numbers that you gave, Jade, and I, you can easily afford a nice house once you get a down payment.

So it's going to take a little bit of time.

But again, you're bringing in plenty of income to afford a decent house in your area.

So be patient, continue to work on getting healthy and your family getting healthy.

And then there's a day coming where you're going to be able to have a nice house.

But yeah,

the mother-in-law thing is toxic.

Jade's 100% right.

That's the right play.

We're pulling for you.

What you go through is so tough.

Thank you guys very much thank y'all very much

we're working through it as best as we can you're doing great i was i was actually considering bankruptcy

i mean is there other debt to speak of you you told us about the house

oh this is actually easy this is easy there's like two credit cards that don't have a whole lot to them and paying them down good that don't have too much on them but good good real estate agent's going to help you out of this deal and make sure you're communicating with the mortgage company go here's what's going on we're going to sell the house it's time to move on They're going to get their money.

They've been great to work with you, but make sure you tie up that end and forget the mother-in-law.

No more communication on this.

Forget it.

There's some bad blood on that deal.

That's not just that she's concerned that you can't make the payment.

Yeah, that's right.

That something about that feels really bad.

And by the way, I feel horrible for her.

I mean, this is her son.

So

I'm not casting judgment on her.

This is a horrible situation for everybody left behind.

But we want to make sure that you hear us, Christy.

Like, you can actually get out of this, sell the house, take your time, and just heal.

Yeah.

Okay.

Thank you all so much.

Call us back if you need us.

Call us back if you need us.

Call us around.

Call us back.

Thank you very much.

Yeah, we're walking with you on this, okay?

Kelly's going to take good care of you.

You got to get back on an either pep talk in two weeks.

Whether we're on here or not, someone's going to help you, okay?

God bless you, Bob.

All right.

We love you.

Hang on.

Thinking about you.

Oh, my goodness.

Well, there's real life right there.

That's the tragic side of things.

But the wisdom that you gave her, I just want to recap to our audience.

What Jade said was: hey, when you've got trauma that has been forced upon you, don't complicate it with money decisions.

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This is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their life, specifically their money, their work, and their relationships.

We're so glad you've joined us today.

888-825-5225 is the number to jump in on the conversation.

Triple 8-825-5225.

And sitting alongside the incomparable, the fabulously talented Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

And from hour one to two, I got a wardrobe change.

First time

I have ever done this.

And Jade's husband, Sam, who's become a very, very dear friend, uh, presented me with the latest Warshaw Entertainment tea.

And uh, it's a boxy tea, I'll be honest, the only one I have.

That's right, you look good.

I think I'm pulling it off.

My shoulder, my shoulders could be a little broader, but I can't do anything about that.

Hey, Jade gave me a hoodie that's a little big for me.

If you want to try it on, see if you can wear it.

Oh, okay.

All right, all right.

But I'm bringing this up because if you don't know Jade and Sam's story, uh, they paid off nearly $500,000 in debt.

They literally live what we teach.

And

how they did it, they were traveling on cruises.

Both of them were fabulously talented and entertainment.

But then as a result of all those crazy cruises, tell people how many cruises you think you guys have.

Lordy, lordy.

A quick guess.

For sure, about 40 weeks a year.

40 weeks.

What is he?

Sam is drawing a number in the air.

2,000?

2,000?

700 cruises.

700.

Okay.

I can't believe I lip read that.

That was amazing.

I suck at that.

My wife thinks I'm terrible at lip reading.

But anyway, as a part of that, Sam learned the business of booking the very talent that you all were and now has a great company.

Yes.

And it's your company as well.

Yes.

And I'm proud to promote it.

You are.

Warshaw Entertainment.

So if people,

who would call Sam?

What are they looking for?

Anybody who's a musician, if you are a musician by your own right, if you're a comedian, we take comedians, we take dancers.

Ken, you're going to audition or what?

No, Sam would never book me for anything.

Well, no, I could MC.

I'd be pretty good in

a cruise.

It is official.

I'm known to be good on a mic.

I mean, we were friends before, but you're the big homie now.

Like, this is different.

Oh, no, I love the Warshaw.

So I'm representing here, by the way, for free.

But we're over at your house tomorrow night, so maybe I get an extra beverage.

Yeah, and we'll get one for you too, James.

Don't worry.

We'll break out the good stuff for you.

The hoodie didn't fit.

I feel bad about that.

I'll take the hoodie.

I'm a hoodie guy.

Kim, bring, you bring up a good point because that does speak to my point of view when you guys call in and you have a bunch of debt.

That's why I'm always saying sometimes the nine to five, you know what I'm saying?

Like the paycheck doesn't cut it and you have to go out there and create something that will cut it.

Gotta hold it.

And you can do that.

So when we tell you all to get a second, third job, we've done it.

All right.

You don't want to hear my war stories either.

I do want to hear them over a cigar one night.

That can be arranged.

Nathan is up in New Hampshire.

Nathan, how can we help today?

Hi.

So I'm calling because I've got about $43,000 of credit card debt.

And I was potentially considering one of those debt repayment programs where they kind of settle your debt for a lesser amount.

I just wanted to get your guys' take on that.

No, it's awful.

We're going to help you.

Yeah, we wouldn't suggest that.

Could I be a little more clear?

Was I a little fuzzy?

Yeah.

I mean, at the end of the day, those places are not doing anything for you that you couldn't do for yourself, and you can actually do it in a more integral way.

So in essence, what they would do is you'd pay into a pot and they'd let those payments sit while your other payments become delinquent.

And then at that point, they'd be able to make a deal and secure

a lower deal for you.

And that's kind of the way it works.

But of course, it's laden with fees and things like that.

So again, there's part of this that you can do on your own.

For instance, if you do have any of them that are delinquent or in collections, you can go ahead and secure a deal for pennies on the dollar with those.

And then for any that are remaining, we're just going to work the debt snowball with them.

And we can talk more about that in a minute.

What I really want to get from you is a bigger picture of your finances right now.

Is the $43,000 the only, you did say $43,000, right?

Yeah, it's about $43,000.

And actually all of it, except for I have a $3,000 loan that I've been paying on for like the last year

since I started working again.

And that's the only one that's current.

Everything else has been in collections for a few years now.

I had a pretty significant life event.

I kind of just went off the rails.

I went into homelessness and stuff.

And it's just not

a good season for me.

What caused that?

Was it a little job loss or a medical deal?

What happened?

Yeah, I went through a pretty painful divorce, and then a month after my divorce happened, my dad died.

And I just, I did not fare well through all of that.

I understand.

Okay, but you feel like you're stable, you feel like you're in a good place now.

Yeah, yeah.

So my current situation, I am living rent-free with a friend who's letting me exchange work on his house for

housing.

Okay.

How long will that last?

It's indefinite.

You know, it's a God thing.

Okay.

You know, he's a Christian dude who has taken in a couple of different people over the years.

Unless he meets a lady,

so it's not in depth in depth.

Okay, and that's what, yeah, that's what I keep telling him.

I'm like, I wish that you would just meet somebody so that you have a reason to move out.

My point of saying that is I want to make sure that you're on proper financial footing if and when that happens, or just anything changes and you know, you guys decide you want to part ways.

So you've got the 43,000, 40 of it is in collections, 3,000 of of it you're still paying.

What's your income every month?

So I just actually, today was my last day working for Liberty University Online Academy.

Okay.

And on the 25th, I'm going to start working for a local paper mill.

And that's going to be $26 an hour.

It's roughly, well, it's 40 hours per pay period, but they do shift work.

I'll get eight hours overtime

in each pay period.

And then

so what will that be a month with the overtime and everything?

I haven't actually run the numbers on that.

Okay.

I just know it's an $8 an hour pay increase from what I was making.

Good.

Okay.

As of today.

Okay.

So let's say you're bringing home $5,000, $6,000 a month.

Does that feel right?

Yeah, I think it'll be about that.

Okay, so with that,

what I need you to do is you need an every dollar budget.

Do you have one yet?

Because if you don't, we'll give you one.

I don't.

Okay, so we're gonna give you an every dollar budget.

It's the best budgeting tool out there because not only is it going to help you understand what you're spending your money on every month, it's gonna help you find margin.

Okay, and when we give this app to people, I want you to understand this very clearly because this is gonna blow your mind.

When we give people this app, it's going to help you find up to $9,000 of margin in the first 15 minutes, one-time margin, which means this is money that maybe you've been allocating in other places that are best suited for your debt situation right now.

So that's the average number.

Maybe you'll find five, maybe you'll find four, maybe you'll find 11, but you are going to find money and margin to put towards this $3,000 loan and hopefully knock it out really, really quickly.

And then from there, the app is like having me or Ken in your pocket.

It's going to tell you what to do based on if we were there with you.

So we're going to give you that for free to try for a little while.

And yeah, it's you walking the debt snowball.

Once you find out, okay, every month I have three $4,000.

You should have a lot because you don't have rent.

I have $4,000 I can put towards this debt.

How quickly can you pay off $40,000 with $4,000?

Plus, you're going to settle this for half, right?

So let's call it $20,000 really, really fast.

Okay,

so hang on the line.

We'll get you set up with every dollar and walk this through one at a time.

You know what will help people get out of that fast?

What?

If it's getting me out of their pocket, they'll get out fast.

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All right, let's go to Will in Milwaukee.

Will, how can we help?

Hi, yes.

Thanks so much for taking my call.

Yeah, sure.

So I'll give you the quick backstory.

I'm 28 years old.

My wife and I are debt-free to accept the house.

We have about $180,000 in our retirement accounts.

When we go do projections on what that's going to turn into when we're 67, it's north of 8 million, even if we stop contributing.

So, we're contributing about $4,000 a month right now.

And my question for you guys is: would it be unwise for us to start reallocating that $4,000 a month to help pay off the duplex that we're living in right now and eventually pay cash for the next one, all with the goal of creating some income that we can use to supplement in the years leading up to retirement?

That's a really good question.

So,

let's play this out based on how much of your, what portion of your income is the $4,000?

Is that 15%

of your it's right around fifteen percent okay of gross

correct okay so you're proposing hey instead of putting this to retirement i'd like to put this towards yeah the real estate dream correct okay i would not do that um now if you were investing more than 15 i would say yeah let's let's pull it back to 15 and put the rest on the property but uh it's so important once you've reached the point that you've reached right you've paid off all of your debt and you freed up your biggest wealth building tool in order to do that and so i love the idea of you know diversification and you're doing that right if you're investing 15 through your 401k you know through a roth ira you are diversifying that amongst your different funds but you're also if you're putting anything uh towards your mortgage which you are that is a forced savings account which is also an investment so you've got that working with you anything above and beyond that i think it's going to throw you off track because here's the thing you are going to retire one day, right?

When you're in your 60s or your 50s or whatever you decide, and you're likely not going to sell the house that you're in immediately and use that money to retire on, right?

You're going to be living there.

So, giving time for your 401k or your Roth IRA to compound overtime so that you can live off of that is important.

And so, if you stop contributing to that now, do you see what I'm saying?

You won't enjoy that growth in the future.

So, that's why we say at baby step four, invest that 15% of your gross income.

And then anything above and beyond that, now we're putting extra on the mortgage and we're paying off the mortgage.

And once that's done, anything above and beyond that, now we can put it into new real estate properties that we can purchase.

Does that make sense?

That does.

Yeah.

I guess my fear is struggling with money from 50 to 67, having a stacked retirement account and just counting down the days until I can touch that tax-free.

I understand.

But why, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

I don't.

Why would you be struggling?

Because he doesn't have a bridge, is what he's saying.

But what about your income?

There's definitely our income.

I guess it just feels like 67 and beyond are kind of covered.

I'd like to start working backwards and cover us from 45 to 67 now.

Okay, well, I did have a question.

Again, I don't understand that reasoning, but let me go back for a second.

I thought I heard you say that you guys are living in a duplex.

That's correct.

So when you asked the question to us, so you're living in a duplex, you're living on one side and renting out the other?

Yes, sir.

How much do you owe on the duplex?

$4.30 and some change.

Okay, and your question was, should you take that four thousand?

So you were saying, do I stop baby step four, 15%,

and go all in on baby step six?

Is that what I'm hearing you say?

That's correct.

Yep.

Yeah, no, I agree.

Jade's right.

No, we don't just stop, and you're going to be thankful

for that because, dude, but here's

to that point, I guess I'm not understanding why you think that you're somehow going to be better off if you have two properties.

He wants income-producing

beyond

29.5%.

I totally get it, but I'm playing out the call.

What you said to us was,

should I do this and get another property?

So now you would have really two properties, the one you live in spitting off some rent, and then another property spitting off some rent.

Am I still on the same page?

Yeah, that's correct.

Okay.

How much would you anticipate that spitting off in income?

Real number.

So if we pay off the place we're living in right now, it would spit off $2,500 and we would ideally buy a similar place that would spit off $5,000 a month.

Okay, so that's $7,500 a month.

That's correct.

Okay.

And how long is it going to take you?

I'm going somewhere with this.

I'm with you.

How long would it take you to get to that place where you are now generating $7,500 a month from those two properties?

How many years?

Roughly eight to 10 years.

My point exactly.

You'd be better off continuing to do what Jay told you to do.

And let's work on baby step six.

All right.

So let's pay it off.

That's fine.

But let's stay with the process.

And so you're not going to take that 15% a month and not invest it, continue to invest that.

But if you're wanting to make more money, I think you'd be better off just following our plan and think about how much of a raise you're going to get when you get done with baby step six.

So let's just take that.

How long before you're done with baby step six and you paid off this current home?

Four years is the goal.

Okay, so four years.

So in four years, you get a nice raise, correct?

Yeah, that's right.

Okay, that's $2,500 a month if I was paying attention, yes.

Okay.

And then what about our income?

What do do we both do?

What are our jobs?

I'm in sales and my wife is a physical therapist.

You're in sales?

Sales is the greatest industry in the world for making more money.

What are you doing?

I sell a feed additive for cows.

Well, I don't know anything about the feed additive market, but tell me, is there room for growth?

There's room for growth.

I guess my dilemma is I don't want to do it forever.

I'd like to do sales in a different industry.

Great.

Oh, this is a great idea.

So you know what we do there?

We start today on building that bridge.

What industry would you like to be in?

I'd like to be in the real estate business.

Clear.

Real estate.

Great.

Yeah.

So now let's go get our real estate license.

How long will that take and how much will it cost?

It's in the works right now, a couple hundred bucks, maybe six months left.

Okay, great.

And when you're done with that, I want you to call Buffini and Company, my good friends Brian and Dermot Buffini and that company.

They're the number one real estate training company in the world.

And do everything that they offer and you're going to become a high performer.

And now we're going to be looking back on this phone call on this day and we're going to go, man, I was selling myself short by trying to make an additional $7,500 a month and shortchanging myself when I'm older and I'm going to be crazy wealthy.

So I love your spirit.

I love your aim.

You're just misguided in your plan to get there.

So work the baby steps and let's go make more money.

If I want more money now before I'm 67 and drawing from retirement, I'm going to go make more money.

And here's what's great, Will.

You've already got a great plan to do that.

Real estate, there's no cap on that.

No cap.

Plus, here's the other thing.

Once you get to the point where you, if to Kent's point, if you continue to grow your income and you're still investing 15% of that, what's going to happen is you're going to start maxing out your 401k and you're going to look for somewhere else that you can invest.

And maybe you'll look over and do like a little brokerage account that if you do decide to retire from your job early before 59 and a half, that will spit off some money for you as well.

So, all of this has a win-win potential over the long haul.

Ken, you're a magician, by the way.

Why?

Because you crafted that call.

You just, you turned it in.

You did a little abra cadabra and it turned into a work.

Wow.

It turned into a work.

Well, you know, I appreciate the kind words.

Will, are you tracking with me?

I am.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, listen, great.

Your hunger is where it it needs to be.

And now let's just put all of our focus on winning in the transition to real estate, crush it, enjoy life, and you're going to be a very, very wealthy old guy.

So it's going to be fun.

You got it.

Yeah.

Thanks for the call.

Yeah.

Well, thanks.

I don't know what I didn't think it was very magical.

It was just like, wait a second.

Yeah, he's all focused.

Rabbit in the hat.

I'm going to try to use my baby step four money to max out.

And I'm like, that's not that big of a play.

Yeah.

Let's get more money.

I'm not sneezing at $7,500 a month, but it was going to take eight years.

That's facts.

And

by the way,

if he's a real estate professional next year, he should be making $7,500 a month.

Clock it.

Easy.

You know, so anyway, there it is, folks.

Don't outthink all of this.

I got to tell you, I love when people call and they think that there was a caveat in the baby steps.

Old Dave didn't think about this one right here.

And it just, they work.

The baby steps work.

They do.

And if you're a new listener, save yourself the time and energy of calling us up and trying to re-engineer them.

It ain't happening.

It's not happening.

You're wrong.

We're right.

And so therefore, let's just cut our losses.

That was the perfect.

I said it ain't happening.

You said it's not happening.

All right, the Ramsey.

So, question of the day is brought to you by YReFi.

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Okay, today's question comes from Greg in Minnesota.

He says we're on baby step three and saving for our three to six month emergency fund.

We are consumer debt free and just purchased a home last year that is within our budget.

I'm looking for advice on whether it's okay to add Botox for my wife

into our budget so that she

or that Let's see into our budget or if that should be held off until we have three to six months saved.

I've heard Botox is expensive, and I don't want to stray from our system by adding on any ongoing payments to our budget.

Our current home,

I'm sorry, this is wild to me.

Our current home income is $150,000, and we currently have $35,000 in our emergency fund.

And any insight would be appreciated.

Okay, let's.

How much does Botox cost?

I don't know, Katie, because I don't need it yet.

Hey, okay,

let's go.

She's fabulous.

Black don't crack.

She knows it.

All right.

Yes, you just said that.

I love it.

Can we say that?

You just did.

I mean, I did.

You just did.

And I have no problem with it.

All right.

Here we are.

He's got 35,000 saved.

Now, I don't know.

He says his income is $150,000.

Yeah.

So three to six months, they're, let's see, what are we talking about?

What's a net on $150,000?

Oh, it depends on the state.

But let's just say you're bringing in, I don't know, $12,000 a month.

Now,

here's what I want to remind people about with the baby steps.

And when it comes specifically to baby step three,

it's your basic budget.

Okay.

It's not, it's not you trying to 6x your income, if that makes sense.

Do you know what I mean?

Like what you bring home for that month.

That's not what we're talking about.

We're saying, okay, when I do my budget, there's the things that I need to do, and then there's some of the things I want to do, and then there's all the extra miscellaneous.

When you're doing your emergency fund, it's kind of what must be true to make the household run.

That's what we're looking for.

So, my guess is that he's pretty close to being there.

Now, Botox.

Here we go.

I've done a little research.

What do you got, Ken?

This is, of course, you know, some AI chat GPT stuff.

Here we go.

The average cost for regular Botox treatment can range.

Now, this is where this gets crazy, but this gives you something to work with.

It can range from $200 to $1,200 per session.

So, methinks that.

$1,200 per session.

How often, though?

How often?

Well, it just says per session.

So this comes down to your vanity.

It's not like, you know, okay, generally prices range from $10 to $25 per unit.

And most people require between 20 to 60 units for common treatment areas like forehead lines, crow's feet.

Let me tell you something.

But how often do you get the units?

Is it like every six months?

It's up to you.

No, no, it's up to you.

Yeah, Kelly is saying like every six months is kind of normal.

Oh, is that right?

Every six months?

Yeah, give or take.

And I have a couple of friends who have said something like that.

But I think that boils down to, again, how vain you are.

And listen, Target.

How many deep you're writing?

Okay, I got people in the audience out here going three months.

Every three months?

And is that costing it?

Do you use it?

You're every three months.

Oh, this is great.

We're talking through the glass.

We're getting real-time info.

It's real-time info.

So

run the numbers on every three months.

Every three months.

And

let me ask you a question.

The $200 to $1,200 per session, how close to that are you?

Are you on the low end or high-end?

I can't read that.

About 700 bucks okay so let's say let's just pretend she's spending 700 every three months yeah

you got a budget for it you got a budget for it and i think that you know they've got their house they're in baby step four

this is the time where you can do you start to live your life because you're out of debt and they've got three to six they don't it sounds like they don't want that number to you based on what we know about their income i don't as long as they're not going into debt for it here's here's let me go through the the framework about knowing how to spend.

Okay, so it's kind of these, these five questions that you ask yourself.

So the first one is, am I a person who's budgeting?

Do I budget my money?

Yes, I budget my money.

Okay, that's a green light.

Next one is, am I a person who's out of debt and

lives a debt-free lifestyle?

Yes, that's a green light.

Next question is,

do I have the proper

insurances in place?

If you do, life insurance, all your other insurances, yes, that's a green light.

Next thing is, am I a person who's saving for the future?

Well, yeah, you are.

You've got your three to six months.

You're about to start on your baby step four as soon as that's done.

Yeah, you're a person who's doing what we teach in line with babysits.

And finally, am I a person who's prioritizing generosity?

If you're doing those five things, now

it means that if you have something pop up like this, should I take that little trip to Disney?

Should I do the Botox?

Should I, you know, get a new couch?

Likely, as long as it sticks in your budget and you're not going into debt, because we already said you're a a debt-free person, the answer is likely yes because you've proven that you're a financially responsible adult.

And this is just called fun things that you get to do when you're a financially responsible adult.

So I methinks the answer is yay.

So that's, so Kelly, by the way, I was, I was doing more research as Jade was breaking that down.

You're right.

The typical effects of Botox last three to four months.

So if we do the three-month thing, way to go, Kelly,

I know you you don't need it.

She's young and very young and looks lovely.

Excellent.

I needed to make sure I mentioned that.

I think she was mad.

Have you tried it?

No, I'm not putting that in my face.

You wouldn't try it?

Why?

Wrinkles on a man are signs of

failure or wisdom.

Why is that?

I'm not ashamed of either.

It's so funny.

When guys get older, they're like...

The age is like, oh, yes, this is a good thing.

And I'll tell you what else I'm not doing.

I'm not coloring my hair either.

Never?

Never.

I'm not going to do it, man.

You're going to go.

So Sober Fox.

I don't want to offend anybody that does the Botox, but it cannot be good for you.

I do feel like it looks better when men get their face pulled.

Let me tell you what.

Okay, now I'm going to.

All right, I'm going out on a limb because I don't mind.

Go for it, kid.

This is my opinion.

Testify.

This is not a Ramsey Show official opinion.

Okay.

But as a guy,

I don't think Botox makes ladies look better.

It makes them look like they have Botox.

I look at them and I go, she's not, listen, I love Landman.

It's one of my favorite shows.

Demi Moore, okay?

Demi Moore is beautiful.

She's older.

It's very obvious to me that Demi Moore is got to be a little bit more like.

Because she went too far.

When you do it right, no one even knows.

How do you do it?

Because I'm a woman, Ken Carl.

You've not done it.

But I know the women who have done it.

And when they do it right, no one is, they're none the wiser.

All right, so I'm going to revise my opinion.

Okay, revise it.

For those of you women who aren't doing it right, we know.

Because when you laugh, nothing changes.

Nothing.

And I don't think that's normal.

I feel like I'm looking at a Madame Tussade wax museum figure.

Okay, let's go.

That's not natural.

Let's go deeper in the hole because we're in the hole.

We're not natural beauty.

We're in the hole now, Ken.

No, I'm not.

No, not you, we, because we're talking about it.

We're going to take it a step further.

I like where this is going.

Okay.

This is question of the day.

The Y Refi folks are getting their money's worth, I'm telling you right now.

So I do think that when you do Botox and invest in getting it right, you can do it.

If you're doing it right, no one really knows.

And you started early enough to where no one knew you had wrinkles that disappeared in the first place.

I'm cynical.

Now, the thing we really need to talk about is these lip injections.

Oh, now that's completely obvious.

It looks like you got stung by a bee and you're having a reaction.

That's what I've been saying.

It's ridiculous.

So what we're saying is let's reallocate this money, women.

No more lip injections.

Reallocate that money

is something else.

That is a foreign substance, yes or no?

Yes.

It's a foreign substance.

It's a paralysis.

It paralyzes the muscle.

That's what it is.

I just got to tell you, we all know.

And so if the point is to try to look better and it's not no, you all are failing.

Not all.

I think that's it.

But the people who do it right.

And I'm trying to tell you, there's people who do it right.

Okay, I just say, I'm just saying,

why can't we just be natural?

Because we can't.

James wants to say something.

This new segment is called Ken Splaining, and it's going to be a regular thing we do.

Ken's Plaining.

I like it.

Ken Splaining.

Okay, how do you feel about, I'm pro-woman here.

How do you feel about a man who gets like hair plugs or like does something like that together?

That

I got a different position on that because.

Because you can tell.

Because if it's back here, no, not if you get it back here, you can't.

Now, if you get a hairline, like my hairline has been receding for quite some time, I'm very aware of it.

But if I show up next week and it's an inch down here, we all know something's not right.

But if it looks good, Ken, I would support you too.

But that's my hairline.

It used to be there.

So that I go for because the hairline was there.

I'm restoring it.

Your lips never looked like a raft.

Ever.

Buying or selling a home is a very big deal.

And with the clickbait headlines and conflicting data that's flying all around, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market.

And we want to always, here at the Ramsey Show, be on the front of all this junk and tell you the truth, not just use clickbait stuff.

So median home prices stayed steady last month at about about 441,000.

The number of homes for sale hit $1 million for the second month in a row.

And the 15-year fix rate also held steady at 5.95% last month.

So if you're debt-free, have a fully funded emergency fund and a solid down payment, now is a good time to buy or sell to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence.

We got you covered.

Go to ramseysolutions.com slash market.

Ramseysolutions.com slash market.

Or you can click the link on the show notes in podcasts and YouTube.

And by the way, I want to just mention, we give you a lot of information every show.

The show notes, the show notes, the show notes.

All right.

I call it James Child's Treasure Trove.

All right.

He's got it all there.

He just has it there for you.

So don't ever fret if you don't hear us properly or you forget what we told you about.

Show notes, have it all.

Lucy,

you like that?

I thought that was pretty good.

I don't know how I feel about that.

I can tell you he did not like it.

Lucy is up in Akron, Ohio.

Lucy, how can we help?

Hi, guys.

Thanks for chasing my call.

If I disappear suddenly, it's because my son had another blowout.

Oh.

I'm pulling him on my hip right now.

Oh, okay.

She's got a little baby on my hip.

A blowout?

Yeah,

he's a month old.

Oh, and

great.

He can sit in there.

Hey, if anything goes wrong, listen, we can handle a blowout.

In fact, if we heard it, it would really wake America up.

That would be even more fun, which I'm here for that.

That doesn't phase me at all.

All right.

I make no promises.

Okay.

So the question we have for you is: my husband and I, we want to buy a 12 or even 15 passenger van to future-proof for our family.

The problem is, right now, we only have two kids.

We have a toddler and Will over here.

He's an infant.

And you already want a 15-passenger van?

You got major plans.

I'm more concerned less about the plan of the van, but the process of having that many kids.

You got a little guy that's experiencing blowouts on your hip.

Let's take our time, mom.

What are we in a hurry for?

Yeah, by the time you have the family.

In all seriousness, stop this madness of planning for something that doesn't exist.

Yeah, by the time you fill the van, the van's going to be old.

Like, it's going to be 15 years old.

That's part of why I'm calling.

The other part of it is we do have reasons why we're looking for a big, like a literally big vehicle.

We have a collection of seven uncles.

Seven under six foot right now is 14, and he is rapidly approaching six foot.

So we have, we have big family genes.

Also, my youngest two siblings are 11 and 14.

Hold on.

They just started at a very go back one beat.

I'm lost on the seven uncles.

Seven six foot tall uncles.

How often are you transporting these uncles?

That That was more for context of how big our children will likely be.

Shut up.

You thought she was going to drive the uncles?

Listen, what's crazier?

What's crazier?

What is crazier?

Me asking about if she's driving the seven foot uncles or her assuming she's going to have 15 seven foot children 15 years before they're even born.

Yeah, Lucy, I only...

Fair point.

Fair point.

Now that Jada's caught up with the same call that I'm on,

I think she's right.

What is is that?

Again, you literally, I went, this is what happened.

I want you to hear what happened.

Jade Ken,

should my husband and I buy a 15-foot passenger or whatever for 15 kids?

We only have two.

Okay, and I went, well, that's a little silly.

Maybe we shouldn't be thinking about that.

And your response was, well, here's the other reason.

We have seven uncles that are all six foot or taller, so we're going to need a lot of leg room.

Thus, that's why we, well, these kids are babies.

Right.

I have more reasons to get to, though.

Okay, Okay, go ahead.

You go for two.

You've got two strikes.

What's the third reason for a massive van?

Well, first of all, I run a youth group, so I would like to take the kids two places all in one vehicle to make it easier for everybody.

That's not your problem.

That's not your problem.

That's the church's problem.

Somebody needs to donate a van.

You're correct.

You're correct.

I know.

That's three strikes.

What's next?

I'll give you up to five.

Let's go for reason number four, that you need to empty your emergency fund for this,

which is not an emergency.

None of these are emergencies.

And not only are they not emergency, they're bad reasons.

Give me two more.

So we want to go on, we want to go on vacations.

We want to be able to tow a pop-up camper and perhaps, like I said, take the younger siblings and have space for them as well.

And the other problem is the other cars that we have are in

varying states of disrepair.

And so we're trying to

plan ahead for that.

Okay, so those are a little bit closer, but again, not a reason to, none of these are emergencies and none of this is a good financial decision right now.

If we can't afford to tow a camper, then we change our vacation plan and we go rent a place, a cabin in the woods.

So, I mean, like, I don't know why.

Jade is she's gone.

The church giggle is in full effect.

Lucy, do you understand what I'm saying?

Like, none of these constitute doing what you think you need to do.

Like, let's just be patient.

Let's fund these things.

So, where would you put yourself on the baby steps right now?

We are

about at baby step four.

We were investing 7%, and we temporarily brought it to 8%, or not 8%, that doesn't make any sense, 0%

so that we could stack the cash for the cars because of the condition that they're in right now.

Okay, so our so our next step is we need to plan for a car.

So, we've got a sinking fund going to take care of the first car situation, correct?

Or we're going to have one?

Correct.

Yeah.

That's the play right now, not the gigantic van.

Now, when the day arrives, God bless your soul, if you've got 12 kids, then we deal with that.

But right now, no, we've got to continue the baby steps.

And then along the way, if we've got to replace a car, then that's what we begin to focus on.

But don't change the formula.

Okay, because we want you to continue to win even when life stuff happens.

And we need to never touch the emergency fund unless it is an absolute for-alarm emergency.

You with me?

I am.

I am.

Okay.

I can tell you about the other cars if that helps understand why we're looking at a car now.

Yeah, okay.

Okay.

So do you need to replace the car now?

Are we in that kind of a situation?

We have multiple cars that are not running.

We have a 2010 Ford Focus, which is the most reliable thing we have right now.

And it started shifting a little weird, so we're a little wary.

What does that mean?

When you say it started to be weird, is that it's making a clank-clank noise, the brakes don't work?

I mean, what is that actually mean?

It's had a couple funks.

It's had a couple funks when it went to shift, so it makes us worried about the transmission.

Okay.

I forget how many miles it has on it, but I think it's like two years.

Okay, what's the second?

All right, real quick, what's the second car?

2007 Torio the Forerunner that's going to the shop on Sunday.

What's it going to the shop for?

It is singing opera on the highway.

We don't even know what the problem is.

So it's making a high-pitched squealing noise?

Not even squealing.

It is changing pitch as we break, but then not when we break.

It's very weird.

Okay.

My dad's a mechanic.

He doesn't even recognize it.

Hence the shop.

Okay.

So there's part of this where I just feel like you are going to extremes on many of the things that you're saying.

Yeah.

Right?

You went, you jumped straight to the the 15 passenger van we jumped straight to this and now we're assuming that you know you you take these cars to the the

mechanic and all hell will break loose right maybe it's just a normal repair you know

by the way a toy at a forerunner uh it might require some work but those are known to drive for forever forever how many how many miles you got on the forerunner

how many miles you have um

you know my husband is listening to the live so he might text me how many miles oh hi

but okay here's my point it is it is also higher uh in mileage quite high okay well again you guys have the money otherwise good but here's the thing you have the money set aside to pay for those repairs and and so if that buys you time on that great and then let's let's take a look at the uh forward focus and go what's the cost to fix that we probably have the money to fix that and now we then begin the discipline process of a sinking fund to replace one and then the second car that's the focus not a gigantic van that we actually don't need, but we're going to try to talk ourselves into because we'd like to drag something along behind it.

Let's just stay simple right now because you've got a lot going on and take care of that little guy and his sour stomach.

Hope that all works out.

We've all done dumb things with money.

I've done them with zeros on the end.

One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it.

You got to have a plan.

You got to be intentional and you need to get a budget.

You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went.

Our budgeting app, EveryDollar, helps you do just that.

It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan for every dollar you've got coming in and going out.

Now's the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan.

Don't let that happen.

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Go download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today.

This is the Ramsey Show where America hangs out to talk about their money, their work, and their relationships.

And we're glad you've joined us today.

Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number.

Triple 8-825-5225.

Alongside the incomparably fabulous Jay Borshaw.

I'm Just Ken.

Isn't that the name of the song in the movie?

Just Ken.

I'm Just Ken.

Hey, thrilled that you guys are with us, and we're going to get started right here with Andrew in Seattle.

Andrew, how can we help?

Hey, guys, and thank you for taking my call.

Sure.

So I've got got a kind of question.

I've I've always been kind of money.

I wouldn't say illiterate, but not me and me and money were never big friends.

So I've been following your plan for about three months.

I'm midway to my snowball.

Okay.

So my question is I'm 56 years old and I've taken I've stopped my borrowing case so I could basically get my snowball rolling.

Good.

I've got two debts left to pay off.

One is a credit card of six thousand three

The other one is my car alone for

$24,875.

So my question is, once I get the credit card paid off, which is going to be somewhere around January,

the car is going to take me another year, maybe a year and a couple of months to pay that off.

Should I put my money back into my 401k prior to paying off the car?

Because

with my age, I haven't put a ton of money into my 401k.

I've only got about

$150,000 in total assets

so far, plus a mortgage.

What is that?

And I've got $150,000.

I'm a smaller for my $50,000.

So I've got about $100,000 in a IRA from another previous employment.

And then with this employer, I've got a 401k of roughly about 58,000.

Okay.

I can appreciate that feeling of wanting to

take advantage of that compound interest as quickly as possible.

But yeah,

you have to remember that this debt, as long as you have this debt in your life, it's going to keep you from going further faster.

And so by paying it off, we're allowing us to focus all of our resources and all of our intentions at one thing at a time.

And because of that, it's going to allow us to go faster and accomplish more,

as opposed to saying, well, I'm kind of going to to pay off the debt, but I'm going to also keep investing over here.

You got to think about it.

The way I like to think about it is if I have a pitcher of water and several glasses that I have to fill up, it takes me forever to fill up the glasses if I put a drop in each one as I go.

But if I just go ahead and fill one up, that one's full.

I can set it to the side.

It's done with.

And now I can focus all of my attention on the

filling up the next glass.

So that's kind of how I like to think of it.

Let's talk about this in real numbers for a minute.

It kind of bothered me that that you said it's going to take you till January to pay off the 6,000 in credit cards.

Tell me more about what your margin is and what you're making every single month.

So I'm in the snowball, I'm putting about

$1,800 towards the credit card.

Once that's done, I'll be putting $2,000 towards the car.

So I have roughly right now about $1,800 to play with.

to push towards these debts.

The car loan itself is $395 a month, so once the credit card's done, I'll have that $1,800 plus the $300 and change to put back towards the car.

Okay.

And that's about as flexible as I can really get past all my other normal bills.

Are you side hustle?

What's that?

Are you doing a side hustle, picking up some extra money?

No, I don't really have time to do that.

I mean, I wish I could.

I wish I had like a passive income that I could actually do.

No, not passive, but explain to me more about.

So, you're 56.

Are you single?

No.

Okay, so married?

So, I have a housewife.

Yeah.

Okay, a housewife.

Okay.

Is that your wife, or is that a position?

Yeah.

So, I have a wife.

She's currently not working at the moment.

Why isn't she working?

So,

she's trying to get together a photography business, and right now

it's very

sparse here, and it's right.

So

Ken is going to say the same thing.

Matter of fact, why don't you say, Ken?

Well, I just I'm going to immediately go, what has she done in her work past that she can leverage from a skill and experience standpoint to go make some decent money right now?

This speeds this up fast.

If she's making somewhere between, let's just lowball it, $35,000, $40,000 a year, that's a game changer, you would agree.

Oh, I totally agree.

Well, let's press pause on the fledgling photography business.

And she can mess around on the weekends at night and take pictures and get better and, you know, all that kind of stuff and not like completely abandon it.

But as it relates to a business,

what has she done in the past?

What kind of work has she done?

She was doing quality control in like an insurance company that basically moved out of Washington.

What was she making?

My full-time it's photography.

What was she making?

Uh,

like 40 grand a year, yeah, somewhere around there, dude.

Are we not on the same page here?

We totally are, but you have pause.

I totally am on the same page with you.

What's your pause?

I've always paid for the home and our bills and everything, and she's kept her bills and whatnot herself.

So, currently, you know, I'm handling it all, so it's it hasn't that hasn't changed.

It's mainly

my retirement I'm trying to push towards.

So when I know that I'm retired, I've got enough nest egg for her to survive, even if she doesn't have work.

So here's the thing.

We can, if you continue to silo it off and make it, it's my job to do this.

I'm the one who's going to do this.

You're cutting off 50% of your income potential because she's a partner.

Yeah, what I heard you not say is that, Ken, you and I are on the same page, but my wife is not on that page.

Is that it?

I wouldn't exactly say that.

No,

she's definitely wants to, and she feels bad that she's not.

Well, let's not feel bad about it, but let's feel motivated to go and let's get a job.

She needs to get a job.

Yeah, because here, let's just play this out for a, for a moment.

So you told me you were concerned about retirement.

You got a thousand bucks in the IRA or $100,000 in the IRA, 56 years old.

So, let's just pretend,

let's pretend this year you were able to knock out the debt because your wife gets a job and you kill it.

You find a way to bring in some extra income as well.

And you guys pay off the 6,000 in credit cards and you're able to somehow knock out the $25,000 car between now and let's say February, right?

And then you turn around and say, you know what, we're going to start contributing $1,000 a month into our retirement.

If you do that from age 56 to 67, you're going to have about $550,000.

Okay.

That's pretty good.

But that is with her working and her adding to this, right?

Because the hope is that you guys can continue to increase your income.

And instead of investing, I don't know,

$1,000 a month, maybe you can bust it up to $1,200,000.

You know what I'm saying?

$1,200 a month and you can get that closer to $600,000, right?

So every little bit counts in this equation to getting you guys to a point that you can retire with dignity.

But she's a big part of that.

She's 50% of the puzzle here.

That's right.

So, hey, let's band together.

And boy, these numbers change very, very quickly on all sides, right?

We cut off the debt faster.

We start piling retirement money faster.

Let's do this together.

Lock arms and let's go.

It's way too easy to put off making a will.

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Bob is joining us now in Ohio.

Bob, how can we help today?

Yeah, hi.

I want to know what my next step should be.

My wife and I, we've been doing the baby steps for the past year and a half,

and we are almost

done with baby step number two.

Awesome.

We have

about $4,000 of medical bills left.

And then it's just our mortgage.

That being said,

in March,

my wife got let go from work.

And

she's got all these health issues with clotting disorders and seizures and such.

So she's not currently working.

And last month, we found out that my 13-year-old has a malignant brain tumor.

Oh no.

So

he's going through chemo

and I guess my question is

with my wife not working

should we

should we stop with the baby steps for now and just pile up cash or

yeah

yeah you guys

you're you're getting hit hard right now

And the baby steps are really important, but during times like this, yeah, you gotta hit pause and right now the sole focus for you guys is getting well and fighting cancer and fighting You know, the things that your your wife is dealing with as well The good news is you you guys understood the assignment several months ago, a year ago, and paid off the majority of your debt.

And it's put you in a really great position now to be able to push pause and to to be able to focus on health.

What is

when let's talk about what it means to pile up cash and kind of put some real numbers to that.

So what's your family out-of-pocket max every year?

All right.

When you say out-of-pocket max, you mean

the maximum amount that you'll pay

beyond your deductible.

For some people, that number is the same as their deductible.

For some people, it could be slightly more.

Okay, Okay, so actually, when my wife got laid off,

we had insurance through her work.

Now we have state Medicaid, I think.

Okay.

Okay.

So we don't have a deductible or co-pays.

And as far as I know,

all of his chemo treatments are going to be covered.

Good.

That's great.

We just have to make sure, you know, we get the pre-authorization.

What was she making, and what was she doing before she was laid off?

So she was an accounting coordinator and I think she was making about $19 an hour full-time.

Okay.

And with all those health issues that you mentioned for her, is she able to work?

So her neurologist says that she shouldn't work right now

and she's not allowed to drive because of her seizures.

Okay.

What about your income?

What's your income?

My income

20 bucks an hour, so roughly 40,000 gross.

What do you do?

Mechanic.

On cars?

Yes.

Okay.

Is there overtime options for you?

There is overtime, but I work at my dad's auto shop.

So

and it's just me and him.

It's a very small business.

The business itself can't afford to pay time and a half.

Right.

Let me ask you this:

if, and I'm not suggesting this, but I but I got to poke in on this: how can we make more income right now?

If you were not working for your dad in this small shop, what could you make in your area as a mechanic?

Could you make more?

I could.

And would you have time and a half options there?

Yes.

That being said, before my son got diagnosed,

I started

flipping cars, buy, fix, and resell.

Yeah.

And

I just sold a car,

and

that put about $6,500 in our account.

Good.

Is that $6,500?

All of that was profit?

No.

How much of it was profit?

About $2,500.

Okay, and how long does it take you to flip a car?

Well,

so it was a new venture, and that was my first flip,

and it took about three months.

Okay.

I want you to pause the flip situation just because there is risk involved.

And I know I'm not even going to suggest that you leave your dad's shop,

but I do think you've got to consider overtime when it means what I mean by that is working for somebody else, finding some side projects where you can do mechanical work.

I think that will help with this process because where I'm going with this is to the extent that you can, replacing your wife's income is a goal because that's a pretty big hit you just took.

That's big.

Right.

I mean, it's half the income.

That's exactly right.

You're going through this.

Now, I'm glad you have your son's bills covered.

That's great.

And it seems like you'd have her medical stuff covered as well.

We still need more income.

Is there a cure in the future for your wife?

Is there something that you guys are working towards where

they can put those seizures on hold?

Or is there is there a

they've got her on medication and they're trying to figure out the correct dosage for that, but also

they want to figure out what's causing the seizures first.

Understand.

Okay.

So she's got she's got some time ahead of her before

she's back in the game.

And the neurologist

said that she shouldn't drive for a minimum of six months after her last seizure.

Okay.

Okay, understood.

So we're looking for work-from-home positions.

We're

looking for things that she can do on her own time, create her own schedule.

And,

you know, if she takes a job and something happens and she's let go, then so be it.

But I don't think we should allow it to, you know, stop her from

more income right now does a couple things.

Number one,

it stacks cash for whatever additional treatments may be needed that you would fund.

But it also puts you in a good position that once we hopefully get the all clear here,

that you're not only paying off debt, but you've got that fully funded emergency fund.

Okay.

So yes, pause the baby steps for for right now because you really only have the one $4,000

medical debt.

And

I wouldn't be opposed to you calling them up and telling them your situation.

Seeing if they'll clear some of that.

Yeah,

I wouldn't be opposed to taking a stab at that.

They go, look, here's the deal.

Okay.

This is what happened to my wife.

This is her condition.

This is what the doctors have told her.

And so, and she was laid off.

She can't do a normal thing anyway.

And then here's what's going on with my son.

And we're going to take care of this at some point.

But right now, we can't.

We've got to batten down the hatches.

And let's see if we got a really nice, sweet, kind, reasonable person on the other end of that phone that might work with you on that.

But yes, stack cash right now.

But in order for you to stack cash, you got to go make more or your wife's got to do something from home that she's able to do because your income just got cut in half.

Right.

And we did just...

We just paid off the last of our credit cards last week.

Great job.

And we called them up and explained the situation, and they were willing to settle for a lower amount.

Great.

Great.

You could, I mean, you can try the same thing with the credit cards or with the medical debt.

I just think that right now, even if they cut it in half, that $2,000 is money that you need to stack up and see if they'll just hold that deal for you.

Say, will you just get this for me in writing?

And as soon as things kind of pick back up, we'll send you the money, that kind of thing.

I'm sorry that you're going through this.

It's really tough.

Hang in there, Bob.

It's going to get better.

And you guys have done the right thing.

You're a good man.

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Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps?

You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you.

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Caleb is joining us now in Atlanta, Georgia.

Caleb, how can we help?

Hey, how are you doing?

Good, sir.

Thanks for having me on.

Yeah, my question's

pretty simple.

My mom, my father passed away about a year ago, and my mom has just sold the house.

And so she

basically got a mom who's got about $1,200 in Social Security coming in, and it will have about $120,000 in the bank, and that's everything.

No house, got to rent something.

That's kind of her situation.

So that money in the bank, no job, though she will maybe look for something, but it's all kind of new and figuring out.

I actually live in East Africa, and so it's not easy, you know, figuring out.

So trying to give her some good advice, and I have my thoughts.

And so let's see what they say here.

And so that 120, basically, she needs to live on it

other than that Social Security.

and so what would you guys say is a good direction?

Well, what first tell us what is she getting in Social Security?

12 about 1200 13 I think it's 1300 a month.

How old is she?

She's 72.

Okay.

So my dad didn't leave much.

You know, he doesn't have

oral okay, he didn't have any of that stuff.

Sure.

And so the hard part, the hard part with this is

all right.

$1,300 Social Security.

She needs some place to rent.

She's in a small town or is she in a metro area?

Currently, she's living with my sister in Colorado.

And so

for numbers' sake, she currently has an apartment that she's going to probably move into that will be about $1,700 a month.

And

who's going to cover the difference?

Because she's got $1,300.

Yeah, see,

that's part of the conversation.

Obviously, we'll help as much as we're not all in the greatest.

We're not in terrible shape.

We'll help her.

But it's, you know, that's kind of the question at hand.

You know, she may get a job.

Yeah.

So the hope, the hope is not to be pulling out of that.

That is the goal.

How old is she?

But here's...

She's 72.

The reality is she can't live on 120,000.

That's impossible.

It won't accumulate faster than you're pulling off of it because there's a huge gap in not just the rent, but now she needs food.

Every once in a while, she's going to need to go somewhere, right?

She's not going to just be cooped up in there.

So the reality, and I think you know this, the reality is $1,300

a month isn't enough and $120,000 isn't enough.

So

she's either going to have to go to work and fill those gaps.

Maybe she, you know, works at Walmart, maybe she goes over to a grocery store,

or you and your siblings are filling those gaps for her.

Those really are the,

it sounds like those are the options that are in front of you guys.

I'd even push a I'd push a lot harder.

I would exhaust everything, Jade, that I could on trying to find a cheaper living situation.

The $1,700 a month, I know in the grand scheme of things, it's not crazy, but it is not a good price for her.

So I wonder if she finds another widow or, you know, whatever.

Let's find a Golden Girls community.

And if they're looking for

a roommate, let's now if we split that cost or she jumps in and we get that rent to say $800 a month or less or something like that.

That freeze up 500 bucks.

Yeah, that's what you need to be looking at.

So, you know, we can't forget some of the simple things like that to go put the word out.

You know, she's living with her daughter, your sister.

They're in that community.

Let's ring the bell.

Let's put the word out.

My mom needs a roommate, you know, or if you're looking for a roommate, you know, and now all of a sudden we want to get to a place to where the $1,300 a month covers the four walls.

That would be our goal.

Yeah, because

if I were you, that 120, I'd want that to sit somewhere and stay there because your mother is going to continue to age, and there's going to be a point at which maybe she needs some care.

Maybe there's something that needs to happen that's going to cost money.

And you guys are going to want whatever you can get your hands on, whether it's an in-home nurse to take care of her, that sort of thing.

And so, for those reasons, that's why I would try to keep that 120 locked away somewhere.

So, that's that's part of my question what would be your advice as to where to lock that away would you say mutual funds would you say high interest savings what would be what would be your advice concerning that 120 is how's her health

uh you know she's good she's good she's good at this moment you know they weren't the most consistent to go to the doctors and so she needs to do those things and figure that out because what you guys are saying is is totally true and uh we're trying to figure all those pieces and i'm thinking well with this 120 here's what i

Jade,

I'll tell you what my take.

I want to know what Jade thinks here.

I defer to her opinion on this, but I would take 15 to 20,

and I'd put that in a savings account.

And that's a pretty robust emergency fund for her.

And then I'd invest that 100.

I would get that working because if she lives 15 more years,

that's going to double twice.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I don't know if I would do, yeah, 15.

Maybe that's too much.

That might be a little high for her.

Maybe I'd take 10.

And yeah, I'd invest the rest.

So yeah, the 10 and a high yield, invest the rest in just good mutual funds,

nothing crazy.

And that way it's there.

I think that's exactly it, Ken.

But I mean, this involves her getting to a place, her living expenses, to where she lives off of

the

Social Security and then the grocery job or some

72-year-old woman.

Yeah.

And so anything she makes above and beyond that is she's stacking.

I think that's actually doable.

Now, I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm saying if I look for it, that's what I would do.

If that was my mom and that was her situation and I couldn't cover for her, then that's what I would be doing.

Yeah.

The living part is

really important too much.

Yeah, really, really important.

And just...

Buckle down and do your due diligence till you find it.

Because if you can, that's going to break.

Let me ask you this.

If you were 72 and your husband passed,

would you want to live alone or would you want a roommate?

It's hard to say but i could understand wanting some companionship you know wanting a roommate but i could also see

all of a sudden being like you know betty is

betty you know doesn't wipe off the counter when she's done and betty you know she blares her frank sinatra too loud you know i mean i feel like i could

i don't like to be alone right so like for me i i think i'd have to get a roommate i really do yeah i don't think i could do well alone yeah it could yeah that's what i'm saying it could be a nice companion something to to do.

You guys can.

Yeah, and that's the, for us, that's the trajectory that we probably will be.

But this first, she's been, yeah, that's part of it.

$1,700 isn't the long-term goal for sure for the rent.

It's a roommate thing.

At this moment, it feels like she needs that space and figuring out life, and we'll cover the difference.

We'll make it work.

On our side, it's really the, like I said, the 120.

What would it, would it be, you know, okay, that's if you put 120 in there, 4%, whatever, it's going to make $300, $400 a month, something like that.

Or do you say, no, no.

do you put it

not the 4%?

Remember, we want you putting that, we want you putting that.

You're saying put 10-15 in high interest savings for the rest in the market.

And I get you on that.

That's why I was calling to see what would they say because for me, I tend to be a safe guy.

I'd be like, put 50 in a high-interest savings and then put 50 in S ⁇ P.

No, we need that 120 making as much money as it possibly can.

Okay.

And

exactly.

But I think the 10 to 15, that would cover you if, yeah, something popped up.

I don't know.

Maybe she needs a vehicle of her own or something, you know, that you must pay for.

Does she have a vehicle, by the way?

She does, yeah.

Okay.

She doesn't have any other debt other than everything that I've told you is the other.

She has cars, a car that's paid for and all those other things.

There's not any debt looming.

So if her car breaks down or if something happens, you know, it's an emergency fund, the same way that we would use the emergency fund for any other, you know, purposes around here.

Yeah, absolutely.

And it's checked.

And yeah, so you got it.

Help her with budgeting.

You know, like get her if she needs it and just surround her there and get her situation where it's much more stable and controlled.

And then I love the idea, by the way, of a 72-year-old if they're healthy doing some kind of work for a variety of reasons.

So,

yeah, thanks for the call, Caleb.

And check on the kids, make sure everything's okay there.

I always love when we hear those calls.

You know what I mean?

I can see some poor guys trying to talk to us.

The kids are playing kickball.

Johnny got hit in the head right upside the head.

Remember those red kickballs?

That could really leave a mark.

All right.

Favorite golden girl?

Hit me.

The old lady that was cranky.

I forget her name on the show.

The little lady.

Or Dorothy's mom.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I know.

The sassy, kind of cranky lady.

Ma.

Ma?

Was that her name?

I mean, what's her real name?

I can't remember her name on the show.

Yeah.

I don't know.

This will not surprise you.

Never saw a full episode.

I'm clutching my pearls.

Exactly.

Wow.

I'm not the demographic.

Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 19, verse 23: The fear of the Lord leads to life, then one rests content, untouched by trouble.

And our quote of the day from Francis Chan: our greatest fear should not be a failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.

It's got some

depth on that one.

That'll make you think twice.

Veronica joins us now in Texas.

Veronica, how can we help?

Hi.

Thank you so much for getting me on.

I love your show.

And the last two years, I've really been following you guys and it has helped me so much.

I am a simple mom.

I'm 39 years old.

and I have paid over $30,000 in debt in the last,

I would say, four years, which has been amazing to me.

Good for you.

Way to go.

Let's not fly past that.

We're proud of you.

Way to go.

Oh, my goodness.

It's been a journey, but I am here.

And I have two questions.

I have

this is, I have a, I have a vehicle, my first vehicle that I bought for my daughter when she graduated.

I owe $3,400 on that.

And

I am in the process of trying to find a home.

Right now, I live with family, and I have about seven months

to move on.

So they've allowed me to stay here for two years.

And within the two years, I have been able to get my thousand dollars in my emergency fund.

And I also have saved $14,000 for a home.

But I still have debt.

I recently got my associate's degree, and so I have $6,000 in student loans, and

I do have another vehicle that's about $14,000,

and I have one credit card that has no interest, which I got my computer for school, which I have $1,500.

My question is, I want to pay down this, that first vehicle.

It's $3,400

if I would pay it today, but that means that I would take away from my home savings.

That's right.

And but I would save about $1,500 in interest.

And so

I have been praying about this and it's just been,

yeah, you know, I'm going to try to call the day, Rex.

I'm glad you called.

Listen, I'm glad you called.

You said you paid off $30,000 in four years.

That's no easy feat.

I didn't ask you what your income is.

What is your income?

So

to date, I make about $83,000.

I am in the medical field, and I'm also my little brother's caregiver.

Okay.

So

he's been with me for 17 years.

So I do get paid from the state for taking care of him.

So how much do you take home a month?

What's a monthly snapshot for you with all those things combined?

So monthly, let's see, it's about $1,650

a month for my job.

I mean,

every two weeks, so let's say $10,000.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

And then

$1,500, let's add $1,500 to that.

So about $4,800, but his Social Security allows him to give me about $800

for him to have room, like for him to live, if that makes sense.

So $5,600 together, all together?

Does that sound right?

No, that

so he brings he has

$950 a month.

Okay.

And then I bring home about $3,500 a month.

Okay.

And the reason why I was able to pay off this interview is because I had a job who paid all my bills and my

for three years.

I was on a contract and they uh paid for everything when they sent me out to to to Austin.

And,

um, I was able to, my entire income went on paying off debt that I had with my ex.

Yours feels a little low.

Are you, are you putting anything in 401k or retirement right now?

I am.

Okay.

I have um how much 401k.

I have 401k.

They take out

they take out about $160

each time.

Okay, so there's money there.

Tell me more.

And then

this is another big question for me is

$470

goes to my tithe and offering.

Okay, good, good.

Okay, so now I have a better picture of what's going on.

Here's the thing.

You are correct in your thought earlier that you said, hey, I have $14,000 saved.

I think I want to pay off this $3,400 card.

Yes.

Because my advice to you would be, first and foremost, you're not in a position to buy a house.

And if you buy a house right now, you are going to create a level of stress that you've not understood before because it's going to create a lot of financial burden.

Because what I'm seeing right now, based on your habits, is you're not done borrowing money.

And so what that tells me is if you buy a house right now and the AC goes out, you're going to get a credit card to fix it.

If something happens with your back door and the lining comes off, and you need somebody to come over and fix the door jam, and you're going to take out the credit card with the repairman.

So, this is going to continue to snowball, and then you're going to feel like a rat in the wheel not being able to make traction.

So, for those reasons, I would put the dream of buying a home, just table it for a while.

It's not, it's just deferred for a moment.

It's not to say that it's going to happen.

Okay.

So, that means I've got $14, really $13,000 that I can put towards debt right now.

And what I'm doing, Ken, is just, we're just walking her through the baby steps.

And so I keep $1,000 aside.

That's baby step one.

That's just your rainy day fund in case something happens.

But yeah, let's pay off this car.

And then on down the line, now we've got another $10,000.

Let's pay off the credit card.

That's $1,500.

And let's keep paying this off.

Let's knock out those student loans.

So I'm at 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, I'm almost there.

I've spent all my money and

I've paid off the car.

I paid off the credit card and I've paid off my student loans.

That is going to make you feel fantastic.

Am I wrong?

Yes.

Why am I wrong?

I only have seven months.

I understand.

But that doesn't mean you have seven months until you have to move out.

No one said you had to buy a house.

It just means you have to find another place to live, which in my mind says, okay, you're looking for an apartment.

And you can do that because the other thing you're going to do, thing two, as you're paying off this debt, like we said, because you can do that today.

The moment that you can muster up the strength to know that I'm right, you can do that today.

And then the next thing that I would tell you to do is you need to pause this retirement, mama, because you.

need that $320 a month.

Because like you said, you're trying to get a house.

You're trying to get a place or, you know, a place to live on your own.

So having that extra $320, not only is it going to cause you to pay off this car faster, it's going to give you the money and income you need to be able to go into a rental, go into an apartment, pay first and last month's rent, feel good about it.

Does that make sense?

Yes.

So right now, you're trying to do a lot of things at once.

What I'm saying is let's focus on one thing at a time, knock it out, get it done.

Does that make sense?

Yes.

No, it makes perfect sense.

I just,

I think I was just...

tired of renting and giving my money away.

Totally understood.

Well, hold on a second.

That's where we're here.

And I love that you shared that with us.

I'm just going to jump in on this one little thought right there and because

that's the mental shift you're going to have to make so that you actually do what Jade is telling you to do.

You're not throwing your money away.

That has become a cultural

because somebody out there created this idea that, well, when you're renting, you're not building equity, thus you are burning money.

Well, that's not the case because, as Jade laid it out for you, and what you've been doing up to this point and renting further is not throwing money away, it's actually giving you options for the future.

But if you strap yourself with debt,

you can say all you want to, well, I'm building equity.

Well, no, you'll never see that equity if you if you go completely broke and you can't afford to keep yourself above water with the house.

So, renting is not wasting money and throwing money away.

Renting is putting me in a position for the future that I want, and it gives me actual freedom and options.

Do you see it that way now?

Yeah, you got to believe that.

Listen, because if you buy into the other argument, you're going to strap yourself with debt, and it's not going to be fun.

Yeah, so hang in there, work the plan.

Jake gave you great advice, it will work.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Mama, Papa, my corporate a rimante, and the rope that I understand

very queen, very promptly.

But I have not

been for the mode with the various

classes of Amazon.

Amazon,

son Riemas.