Shortcuts Today Lead to Setbacks Tomorrow

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Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and the wonderful Jade Warshaw.

And we will be answering your questions.

That's right.

About life, money, career, anything and everything.

Give us a call.

So kicking us off this hour is Steve in Memphis, Tennessee.

Hey, Steve, welcome to the show.

Thank you guys for having me.

I'm in one of those predicaments, in one of those places where I just desperately need help.

And a friend of mine said, hey, you guys were the ones to turn to.

And so here's my plight.

I've got a lot of student loan debt,

close to $60,000.

And back last year, at the beginning of the year, I was off work for about six months.

And so I did the unthinkable and got a lot of high interest loans.

you know, loan shark kind of loans.

The places, you have the worst.

It's hard to get out of that cycle, too, because of how high the interest is and everything.

And the interest was just astronomical, and it was, you know, just trying to put a band-aid on a gunshot wound, and it didn't help.

And now I'm currently in the process of a divorce, and my spending is

out of control.

And

I'm just trying to get my life straightened out.

And, you know, I'm trying to start with the finances and the family.

Looking to you guys for some help.

Man, it's a lot, Steve.

How long were you guys married?

Six years.

Oh, wow.

Kids involved?

No.

Okay.

What kind of work were you doing before you lost your job and had that stint of being out of work?

A police officer.

Okay.

And what are you doing now?

Nothing at the time.

Okay, so you still haven't been able to turn that around.

How old are you?

51.

So what caused you, what happened with the police officer deal?

What caused you to not get another job in that field?

Just having,

I think, possibly a lot of the psychological part of it and the environment that we're in nowadays with law enforcement.

Just,

you know, trying to do something different.

Yeah.

So you don't want to be in that field anymore, basically.

Basically, that's it.

Yep.

Okay.

So, Steve, one thing about your situation, I would say, and we see it's very common, and not to stereotype with gender, male and female, but

especially for men, your self-esteem is probably at the lowest it's been, I would assume, in a long time, because the providing side of you is non-existent.

The relational side is in a mess as you're going through a divorce.

And so, there's things in this, Steve, and in this situation, not only from the financial side, which we'll dive in because we want to help there, but just know from your overall health as a person, getting some

of that identity back in you is going to be important in this.

And building back some confidence is going to help propel you forward because it's kind of like everything has just been stripped from you, you know, slowly but surely.

And that, I'm assuming, has kind of eroded what you think about yourself.

I'm like, that is the formula of, yes, of just depression and sadness.

I mean, like, there's just that, there's not a lot of hope is what it feels like, but there is go, there can be hope.

Like, that's what I'm saying.

I think you can turn the corner, but

there, there's turning the corner financially, but also just for you, Steve, of finding these quick wins.

So, even finding some level of work, not only to bring in an income to pay the bills, but even just for the good of you, just to have something that you have to leave the house, you have to go do a task, accomplish something, and come home.

Like, bit by bit, those also help in just who you are as a person.

Are you getting, are you talking to anybody, Steve?

Are you seeing talking to a counselor?

I am.

You are.

Okay, good.

That's That's excellent.

And I think that's really going to help with the areas that Rachel highlighted because that's something that's going to take, yeah, time and conversation and some real work

in your day-to-day life.

But on the money side of things,

let's see if we can help you there a little bit.

So you've got the $60,000 in student loans.

How much in that payday and personal loan deal do you have?

Right at $15,000.

$15,000.

Are you current or is anything in default?

It's in default.

Those are charge-offs.

Oh, they're charged off.

So they're not coming for you anymore?

Okay.

And

is that it?

Do you have a car?

Are you getting around any any

I have a car

and it's two months behind right now.

It's two months behind.

Okay.

And tell us about your living situation.

I rent.

Okay.

And is that current?

It is right now, yes.

Okay.

So here's and you know this.

I'm not going to tell you anything you don't know.

It's really hard to live with no income.

And until you say, I'm going to do something, there's not anything that we could do to change this for you today.

So are you doing anything to bring in income?

I've Ubered some and

doing the, you know,

that's minimal income, just kind of day-to-day stuff.

But nothing that you're putting 40 hours of effort into.

No.

Yeah.

I can hear it in your voice and I'm sorry for you.

I can hear that you're just

not motivated.

But you called us and that does show that there's some light of hope there.

And

if I were you today, because here's the thing, before you were, you know, a police officer, you had your wife, you had your kids, you, you had this life, but There is something that work can provide, even if it's a job that you don't want to do.

And it can provide something for you to do that day.

It can provide for you to get up, get out of your sweatpants, you know, put a nice shirt on, brush teeth, you know, and go somewhere.

And then it'll start to build up that confidence in you.

Because here's what I don't want to happen, Steve.

The longer that you wait with no job, the more your confidence will start slipping and slipping.

So today, go over to Target, go over to Walmart, go over to Applebee's, go anywhere.

I don't care, go into McDonald's and dress yourself nice, brush your hair, do all of that stuff.

Look as good as you've looked in a year and go in there and get a job.

And you're going to walk out of there feeling like, feeling much better.

And when you get that first paycheck, you're going to feel a lot better.

And that's going to help you, you know, get this ball rolling.

Yeah.

And that's for the short term, Steven.

We'll hook you up with some of Ken Coleman's material because he has two incredible books just about how do you find the work that you know you're wired to do?

What are the things about you, Steve, that are innately like how you were created?

Also, situationally, the people you know around you, like all of like there's some things that can happen in life that for the next 30 years, Steve,

until it's 80-year-old Steve we're talking to, this could be the next best decade or two of your life.

And you have to make that decision.

And so, for the short term, exactly what Jade said, you have to be bringing in an income.

And then you want to cover your four walls.

So, you want to keep food on the table.

You want to keep that rent paid.

I don't want you getting behind on that.

I want you to catch up with your car loan and get current on that and then make sure all your utilities and everything.

So those are your four goals month to month.

And then don't worry about the student loans right now.

That's right.

And then beyond that, which may take you, you know, it's probably going to take you, I don't know, two to three months to kind of get to that.

So by

mid-fall, Steve, have a goal to say, okay, now in October, I'm going to start working my way out of debt, which is these payday loans, all of this.

Start there and then be tackling the student loan debt.

So you have a good couple of years ahead of you, Steve, but you need a plan.

So, stay on the line, and our team's going to pick up.

We're going to give you Ken Coleman's material.

We're going to throw in the Every Dollar app as well, so that you can start getting on a budget and knowing where your money, then the new income that you're going to make, Steve, where it's going to go.

And we believe in you.

You can do this.

You can do this.

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Up next in Tulsa, Oklahoma, we have Libby on the line.

Hi, Libby.

Welcome to the show.

Hi, guys.

Thank you for taking my call.

For sure.

How can we help today?

So I just need to settle a debate with my husband.

Ooh, we love debates.

We do.

This is great.

Yes.

so we just finished up we actually wrote our last check to uh do our emergency fund on Sunday so we are fully done with baby step three oh wow I am ready yeah so I am so ready to cut up these credit cards we don't use them we have five of them and just cancel them but my husband is so skeptical because we've always been taught the high credit score I mean that's what you're supposed to have and we're still so young I'm 23 he's 26 and we're we have a mortgage right now um but of course it's not our our home that we want to to be in long term.

So, you know, maybe in like three, four years, we're going to want to move.

And so I think that's maybe his worry that without a credit score, you can't buy a mortgage.

But I tried to tell him, I was like, hey, we're going to have a credit score with our current mortgage now.

And then once we get into a home, you know, we'll like aggressively pay it off and then we'll have no credit score.

Like, I'm so content with it.

But he is very iffy and just scared.

Which is, I'll say this, Libby.

I don't know if you guys are considered Gen Z, but it's a very normal gen z slash millennial thought process so your husband's not crazy all the things he's just misinformed and and he doesn't have all the information and even if you don't know anybody who did it it's like yeah it isn't even it's like i've never none of my friends have ever done this my parents have you know and i i will say you know what you're saying is 100 accurate though you can and it will be that way if you have a current uh mortgage now and that's your only line of credit at first when you first pay things off you you might see it dip, but over time, it does kind of jump up again.

My husband and I were in that same boat, paid off all the debt, zero credit score, got our mortgage.

Then our credit score returned, and it's high.

And then, when we went to buy our second house, obviously, since we did have a credit score, it was based on that.

And it was totally, totally fine

because it was just the only trade line.

And, you know, you pay your mortgage every single month.

And so it is, it was still in the 700s or whatever it's supposed to be.

So

I think the best thing you could do is really a person like that, if you can just show them the information

or show them the math.

And even Libby, oh, sorry, Jade.

No, that's okay.

That's all.

That was all I was saying.

Well, even if you guys didn't have a credit score, you could still get a mortgage with manual underwriting.

So there's still a way to get a mortgage without a credit score because mortgages are the one type of debt that we would say, like there's parameters, but it's a reality for most people.

And so, and Libby, the truth is, if he kept the credit cards open, I think it will actually ding you if you don't use them.

So then he's gonna say, Hey, let's use them, even though it's the quote-unquote probably pay it off every month mentality, uh, which so many people have.

But the truth is, you're still gonna be in a relationship with credit cards, like that.

That's the so you would do, you would be better off just paying your mortgage on time, closing the credit card accounts, getting rid of them, and just having that line of credit through, I mean, meaning through

your mortgage, that that's what it's calculating.

So, yeah, we're on your team, Libby.

But

we are.

We're on team Libby.

And if you hold on the line, Libby, we'll give you George Camill's book to be able, it's called Breaking Free from Broke and he has a whole chapter dedicated to this.

And I think your husband would love to read it.

George is like one of the best at just like making money kind of fun and relatable, and especially in this book, these topics.

So I think your husband would appreciate it.

So we're going to send you that book.

You guys read that chapter, read the whole book, but read that chapter together.

And it's kind of a line in the sand for sure when you say, hey, we're not going to use debt.

Like this is, this is part of the game.

And you guys are really over the hump too.

Like, I feel like you're in baby step four.

Yeah.

Don't, don't get me wrong.

Like, you need to cut up your credit cards instantly, but I know, you know, folks keep it around during baby step two.

They still are like, just in case, Jade, I'm like, don't do it.

Yes.

But at this point,

you have an emergency fund, you're good.

You're good.

All right, let's go to Joe in New York.

Hey, Joe.

Welcome to the show.

Hey, ladies.

Thanks so much for taking my call.

First time caller, long-time listener.

Appreciate what you do.

Awesome.

Thanks so much.

Yeah.

Just to give you like 30 seconds of quick context, I was doing really well.

I had a nice little nest dig.

And then right around when COVID hit, I had a pretty rough season of backsliding where I actually dipped into my retirement and lost a lot of that through like gambling and a lot of really stupid things and squandered a lot of money.

And I'm very grateful to say that I have not gambled in many, many years.

And not only that, but like I no longer have the desire to.

So I've really gotten through that.

But I was down to basically my last 50K in my retirement.

And in a city like New York, that's not exactly a ton.

Now I'm on maybe step three, building up the three to six months of emergency fund.

I have about 16K in savings and about 170K in retirement.

And at this point, I've basically been contributing to the emergency fund.

I really want to to get to six months while also simultaneously funding my four hundred one K to get that company match that I currently am able to take advantage of.

So my question is basically, should I continue to be doing these both at the same time or should I focus on one at a time?

And then also, is $170K

good for retirement currently at age thirty eight, which I currently am?

Because I read recently that it should be about two to three times your income at age 38 and I make about 130k per year so yeah just want to get your well I would say on that end when we get to baby step four you'll be funding 15 percent of your income to retirement which is almost double what the average American contributes anyways because most Americans don't have the margin to contribute 15% because they have debt so that's why the baby steps are in the order they're in where you eliminate debt have some padding of that emergency funds and then you actually have margin in your life to fund 15%.

So regardless of whether it's good or not, you're going going to catch up so quickly because it's 15% that you're going to be contributing.

So, are you single married kids?

Single currently.

Would love to be married at some point, but sure.

Okay, so 16K for you.

What would be a three-month emergency fund for you?

It's actually right around three months right now.

Okay.

What's your income right quick?

About $130K give or take with bonuses and stuff.

Okay, I'm going to say this, Jay, have a different take than me, okay?

If you, if you have a different opinion, but because you are single, Joe, and you're, and it sounds like you have a pretty solid income, you know, you don't have, you know, multiple people that are dependent upon your income.

That's where I normally tell people three months because it says three to six months.

So that range, you're kind of in the three-month range to me.

So now that you have three months, I would be okay with you going ahead and contributing to retirement.

100%.

And if you had some margin, you could continue to throw it at the emergency fund.

But if you were married with three kids, you guys had private school, you were paying, like you had a big, I agree, a lot of dependence, I would say don't fund retirement.

Get to that six months quickly and then fund retirement.

But where you are in your stage of life and circumstances, I'm good with 16K.

If that's three months for you, I'm good with that.

And then I would, I would be funding retirement.

And then any extra margin you have for any more padding in the emergency fund, just throw it it.

Joe, did you say you're 38?

What, how old did you say you were?

38.

Yeah.

38.

Okay.

Good news.

I bring good tidings.

So I was just playing around with the math.

I was listening to what you said.

You said you have $170,000 in your retirement right now.

So I just plug that into an investment calculator.

And then let's say you're putting away $1,600 a month, 15%.

Does that feel right?

And then let's say rate of return, 10%.

You should be getting that in good growth stock mutual funds.

So let's say you just put that amount.

Your income never goes up.

Nothing ever changes.

Let's say you do that from age 38 to age 60.

That's 3 million bucks.

And then let's say you keep going until, you know, age 67, like fully retired.

That's 6 million.

That ain't bad.

And that's with it not increasing.

Your income is going to increase in your 40s and 50s, which means that 15% is going to be more dollars going in.

And I know you're in New York City, but you get the idea here.

Five to six million.

Does that feel right for you for retirement?

It feels great.

Yeah.

And that's why I was questioning that thing I read where it said it should be

received.

I know.

I see that stuff too, Joe, honestly.

And I think

that's so subjective to me.

Yeah.

Because again, majority of Americans are only funding four, five, six percent of their income.

They're not funding 15 percent.

And so they're doing math on a small percentage of investing compared to a salary.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, I do.

And I actually think it's better to look at your rate of return and say, hey, if I can pull what I'm gaining off of this and and not touch the nest egg and live off of that, I feel like that's a better framework of thinking.

So if you can live off of, I don't know, 8%,

which is better, which is lower than your rate of return, then you're winning.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all.

I don't understand this, John.

Why don't people want to take care of their family?

They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys, I didn't even think about it.

And one of my buddies said, Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've They've lost somebody important to them.

Me too.

They don't know what to do next.

Me too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here, and you've got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow.

She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly.

These are the two options.

And take care of your dadgum family, man.

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah.

To just miss you.

That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family, term life insurance.

Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable.

I've used them personally for 25 years.

They're the only people I trust.

Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Buying or selling your home, it's a big deal.

And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's really hard to know what's actually reality when it comes to the housing market.

And so, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand.

So, the median home prices have stayed steady in the last month, around $441,000.

And the number of homes for sale hit 1 million for the second month in a row.

So, buyers now have more options, more negotiating power, while sellers are facing more and more competition.

So we're seeing it kind of that be the market, which is great.

Again, if you're trying to get in, there's a lot of people out there that are trying to be first-time homebuyers.

You have some leverage, you guys, to go in and negotiate.

So the average 15-year fixed rate has held steady at 5.95%

since last month.

And again, if you are debt-free, you have a fully funded emergency fund and at least 5% for a down payment, go ahead and get into the market.

Owning a home and home ownership should be part of your financial plan.

So, if you do want to see more about these market trends and get some free tools if you're wanting to buy or sell your home, go to ramseysolutions.com/slash market.

Or if you are listening on podcasts or YouTube, we'll put the link down below or in the show notes so you can check it out.

But this is, um, yeah, homeownership is something that a lot of people want in, and it's obviously very expensive.

It's just gone up.

But when you see this as a buyer, like there's some good things there, right?

I think

average days days on the market right now, I think is like 59 days.

It's almost getting to two months.

And so some things are just stabilizing, we keep seeing.

And so, again, it's kind of becoming a buyer's market.

So get in there and

sit down.

I'll say, you know, whenever I post about housing, Rachel, on Instagram or social, it's the one thing that if I post, I get usually folks are on my side.

If I post that, it's like, JD, you're out of touch.

You don't know what you're talking about.

I just feel like we

can, we need to reframe.

Like, I just want to take a moment and say, like, when we're saying you can get in the market, if we're saying, hey, 25% of your take-home, like, we're not saying this to keep you out of buying a house and we're not saying it to discourage you.

We're simply saying, hey, if you get in the house, we want to make sure that it's something that you're going to be able to afford long term, that it's something that's going to be a blessing to you.

Because how many times, Rachel, do people call in, they've gotten into something that's they can't afford it.

And 100%.

You know, or

go ahead.

Well, the problem too is you sit down with a mortgage lender, and the number they show you of what they quote unquote will give you to borrow, you're like, wow.

They gave you 50%.

That's amazing.

And then you go and go on Zillow and start shopping with that number.

And you're like, oh, my gosh.

We're out.

Yes, our formulas, they are more conservative, which means your home's going to look a little bit older and probably more conservative than what the bank would do.

But again, we want you to have margin and peace in your life.

And when you get that, when your rent or mortgage starts crossing that 40% into 50 and then we get this all the time so the health scare happens yes someone wants to stay home with the kids and go down to one income like it locks you into a lifestyle where there's no flexibility so again expectations are going to look different than they would have been in 2019 um but that might be a townhouse yes i mean yes or you're going to drive 15 20 minutes further out or it's going to be a house that doesn't have the brand new nice kitchen or it's on a new build or whatever it is it may look different but i would rather it look different than my expectations and have peace

than get something that I can't,

I have no wiggle room in my lifestyle.

And I'm locked into this idea of like, this is what we make, and this is what we can afford.

And yeah,

and what's on social media is not reality, by the way.

Yep, amen.

Reminding

Lord have mercy on our souls.

All right, let's go to Lori in Alberta, Canada,

up there in the north.

Hey, Lori, welcome to the show.

Hi, ladies.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

Absolutely.

Help me help today.

Sure.

My question would be, should I opt to rent a basement suite or should I purchase a mobile home in a trailer park?

Basement suite?

What can I say?

Oh, when you said trailer park, what was it out in the woods?

No, so I'm currently, I have a job opportunity that would require me to move to a location I used to live in.

And so it would be in the city.

It's a small city, but the trailer park is right smack in the middle of it.

So it would be close to amenities and everything and quite close to my job.

So it would be very convenient.

But at this point,

a mobile home and a trailer park is kind of all I can afford.

I've kind of aimed at my highest purchase price being $130K based on my budget.

How safe is that, though?

That feels unsafe to me.

Am I wrong?

I might be.

I don't know.

I mean, you'd be surprised.

Sometimes it can be safe.

And especially if it's in the middle of the city, I'm not as concerned for my safety.

So, and

I'm not a resportable person.

Yeah, from an investment standpoint, Lori, I would not.

I would definitely rent.

Basement, rent.

Yeah, yes.

Yeah, buying that, usually it's going to go down in value.

You're buying an asset that's not appreciating.

It's depreciating.

And so being able to take your time, get into the market in a little bit, but I would rent until now for sure.

Do you think you'll be in that city long term?

That's the idea.

And I'm looking for a bit of permanence.

And renting has always really scared me.

Even though it does provide a consistent rent payment, I'm not under any illusion that the mobile home would appreciate in value.

It would really just be a place for me to just kind of lay low and hunker down until I can purchase something that would be more beneficial investment investment-wise.

So again, it's really into that permanence and also flexibility.

Sure.

So I would, yeah, the permanence thing can come.

I would say give yourself some time.

Be patient with that.

And then also

renting is not bad.

And I feel like renting gets such a negative connotation, but to me, with having a plan, not saying I'm going to be a renter for the rest of my life, but I'm going to rent for a season until X, Y, and Z, you can fill in the blanks there.

It's a sign of patience for me.

Like when people say we're renting, I'm like, yeah, there's something about it not being permanent that's great.

So you can actually save up and get what you want.

That is,

and there's still

the cost of maintaining the mobile home, right?

That is more keeping with...

buying a home because what happens if something happens with the i don't know whatever the plumbing setup is what happens if something you're on the hook to have to repair those things whereas if you're renting that's something that's going to fall on your landlord to take care of so there's part of that too where i feel like you're going to end up saving money

long term, not just on repairs, but also the depreciation that's not going to fall on you.

Okay.

Yeah.

And then those have been things I've kind of thought about and whatnot, but I thought I'd get your guys's perspective on that.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, thanks for the call, Lori.

And yep, again, for sure, I would rent.

That's what I would do.

You know, there's camper and like mobile home folks.

Like people call in, and a lot of times that's what they want to do.

And I get it, but I don't get it.

Like it's just, it's going down in value.

That's all I can say.

For sure.

And having something that is stable, it may not feel permanent, but at least you know that you take a bunch of money that you're going to end up losing, right?

That you're actually kind of staying more in the positive

financially is the goal.

And, you know, it's a new job, which is great.

And I know you said you used to live in that town, so you're familiar with it.

But for a lot of people that are moving, the transit world, Jade, I feel like people are moving constantly for jobs and they're, you know, going across country and all of it.

So you guys, if you are someone that is moving to a new area, rent, even if you can afford a home, like I would say,

rent for a year.

And if you think you know the area of the city you want to live in, just rent for a year and make sure, okay, this is what we like.

We like the areas, we like the school, we like the community.

Cause some people, they kind of just pick a city and they pick a place and they're like, here, we can afford this.

Let's just do this.

But give yourself patience.

And again, that's what renting does, especially if you're in a season of transition or there's something new happening.

Just have the patience and rent for nine months to a year and then you can look at buying.

You get to see what that side of town is like all throughout the year, right?

You might learn something that you're like, oh, crap, this is like right where the airplanes fly over.

Or you might learn, you know what I mean?

You might learn those, that, those sorts of things.

So that's very, very valuable.

And it is hard, Lori.

I think, you know, having the patience and what we were talking about at the the beginning of the segment, even with the housing market, it is hard in today's world.

Like it takes a lot of maturity to delay gratification, even with a big purchase like a home.

And I'm telling you guys, the more you can practice that and just have that patience, have that longer timeline, you're going to get what you want and in a really peaceful way that's not locking you into something that where you have no options if you want to change something about your life.

So that's our goal.

I rented for 10 years before I bought.

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One of of the best things that you can do to help us, and let's just say, help the world, is to make sure to like, subscribe, and share this show with your friends and your family.

Because the truth is, this is why we get up every day to do and talk about your life and your money.

And we want to help people.

And the more the word gets out, hopefully, the more people get encouragement in their own lives and some direction.

And one of the areas of their lives that a lot of people need direction is when it comes to their purpose, when it comes to their career, their jobs.

And one of the best people on the planet, we actually gave his book away in the first segment.

Oh, thank you.

My kids need new shoes.

Yes, it's Kay Coleman.

Oh, that's right.

I missed that part.

It's the promo, indirect money.

We gave it, yes.

It's Kay Coleman.

And he was walking by the studio literally just now.

And we were like, Ken, come in for a segment because we saw on the board the next call has to

do with jobs and all that.

I just brushed my teeth today.

Listen, you got the outsiders vibe going on.

You got the

I know.

This is as casual as you'll ever see me on the show because I was not planning on James calling me in from the bullpen.

But look at that skin glowing.

Come on, Ken.

I'm getting a lot of vitamin D these days.

It's what we need this summer.

All right.

Well, let's see.

By the way, real quick.

This is America's greatest combo right here.

I mean, female power is just exploding off of you.

I said this to you all when I walked in.

I said, if I was a fan of this show, this duo would be my favorite.

Wow.

That's what that means.

I got to tell you, I am woman, hear me roar.

I feel that.

No,

we are woman.

I know, but that's the phrase.

I am woman, hear me roar.

See, this is what are you women?

These are the two women that correct me almost as much as me as my wife.

That's right.

This is what I'm used to, actually.

Stacy won't mind.

We all had dinner together last Friday night with the spouses.

And Stacey, yeah, we felt definitely.

By the way, if you want to see my dinner outfit, go to my Instagram page at Ken Coleman.

Listen, after this, you're not prepared for it.

We'll pull that up on you If you want to win, yeah, throw it on there.

If they can get it, his golfing outfit, it's next love, which actually appeared in Happy Gilmore 2.

Didn't know that.

It's in the movie.

All right.

Let's go to Tyler in Houston, Texas.

Hey, Tyler.

Welcome to the show.

Hey, guys.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

Absolutely.

How can we help?

Yeah, so I recently just got married and moved into

a new home with with my wife and

I got a job offer recently as well that would be a 35%

pay bump.

And yeah, so it's exciting.

However, my wife does not want me to take it.

So I think that we don't have any debt right now, the context, and I do enjoy what I do right now.

This other opportunity, I think I would enjoy as well, but

I don't know.

Why doesn't your wife want you to take it?

It's a pretty far commute.

How far?

About an hour.

Each way.

Yeah.

So an hour in the morning to get there, an hour coming back home.

Wow.

That's rough.

Do you guys have littles?

Yeah.

Little kids running around the house?

No kids?

Nope.

No kids.

So first of all, personally, I would never sign up for a two-hour commute.

That gets old really fast, no matter how great the job is and how great the money is, that gets old fast.

It's a quality of life issue.

But what is her, just to dig a little bit more, what is her specific reason as to why she doesn't want you to take it?

Understanding the commute, what is she?

Is she worried about less time with you?

Yeah.

Okay.

I think that.

Yeah, yeah.

I think that, I mean, we've done distance our whole relationship.

So

just now.

And y'all, how long have y'all been married?

I think that might

oh, very like, less than a month.

Oh,

how sweet.

Yeah, you know.

Yeah.

She might change her answer a couple years from now.

Who knows?

Okay, a serious question.

Does this job, we know that it's a 35% pay bump, but does it also move you significantly up the career ladder that you want to climb?

So that's tough, right?

Because I'm in consulting right now.

and what I would be going into is an internal role.

And it's a manager position.

And so it does move me up.

But

I think that I can also make the case to stay at my current job because it's like

I am getting a lot more experience, probably hugely.

Okay, great.

So let me ask another one.

If that makes sense.

It makes total sense.

If the money was the same,

would you even be considering this opportunity?

No.

Okay.

So the current job has actually got you more positioned long term.

Ladies, I think this is an easy one for me.

I told you.

Wifey's not happy about it.

New wife.

Okay, this will be fine.

Let's do a game on a count of three.

You do it.

On a count of three.

What is our answer?

Yes or no?

Take the new job.

So take it or pass.

Say leave.

Leave.

Pass.

Leave.

Oh, pass.

Pass.

Take it or pass.

Take it or pass.

All right, count us down.

Okay, ready?

One, two, three.

Pass.

Yeah.

This is rare, by the way.

Tyler, we're all in agreement.

I'm only disappointed that Jade didn't harmonize there.

Pass.

But if I could just give you the specifics as to why.

Number one, new wife, she's not thrilled about it.

That's one good reason.

Two,

it's two hours of commute every day.

That's going to suck the soul right out of you into the vents in your car.

And three, it doesn't actually get you ahead if we look 10, 15 years down the road.

That's why we're all so unified.

It's the 35% bump.

But he has no debt.

You have to consider it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, that's a good point, Jade.

He doesn't really need it.

Yeah, he has no debt.

There's nothing on fire here.

Just curious,

do you expect to get a bump in the days ahead, months ahead, year ahead where you currently are if you stay on this track?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just got a promotion, and

I think that

generally it's looked like

my peers have been getting pretty decent raises year over year.

Tyler, how old are you?

I was still

24.

Okay.

All right, question for the ladies.

So, Tyler, listen up here.

This is huge.

And it's a great ego boost, by the way.

It feels great.

Sure, sure.

Someone's going to pay me this much more.

Yeah, you got to be a great person.

I'm amazing.

I'm great.

Yeah, you got to roll it over.

So, Tyler, pay close attention here.

I'm going to get some expertise from two married women here.

He's 24.

They've been married a month.

How does he reveal this decision to his wife?

We know what she wants.

Any kind of brownie points he can get out of this deal?

Brownie points.

Manipulate the situation.

Manipulate.

Make him look bad.

No.

No.

He's just going to tell her.

Why so cynical?

I don't know.

Come on.

Come on.

Brownie point.

Give this guy some tips on how to share this information.

His wife's going to be thrilled.

Okay.

I'll go first.

I think I love if I've talked to Sam Warshaw about something and I know that he has really thought about it.

Like he's really thought it through.

It wasn't just, all right, we'll just do what you want to do.

Or like, what?

I love knowing that.

So I think if you just share with her, hey, honey, I thought about what you said.

And I even went went to the extent of calling some professionals and I called in this show.

Let's just say you're right.

Marvin Gaye.

Whoa.

Wow.

Let's get it on.

Oh, boy, it's hot in here all of a sudden.

I'm just saying.

A little warm.

A little warm.

That's romance right there.

It is.

Thank you for understanding what I said.

You know what?

And I'll say that, Tyler.

I think Jade is exactly right because it's not this like,

it's not this, okay, if you don't want me to, I won't.

There's something attractive about saying, hey, I've put my own thoughts to this.

Yeah.

I've kind of calculated, what do I want?

And then as I match it against what my wife says, and scripture is very clear about having a wife that is wise and listening to her, there's a reason that it talks about that.

That's right.

Because all these guys are like, oh, she, she doesn't really understand.

I'm going to just do my thing.

Not good.

That's not good.

But that beautiful balance of having a spouse that you love and respect.

Oh,

Tyler, I like this.

Speak up, young man.

What is it?

What is it?

If I could just add one thing, she is going to be in school for the next two years.

And so for a dental hygienist, and we're not having to take that for that.

But I will say that she's not going to be bringing in an income.

And if kids are in the future, like in two years,

I'm just thinking about the next baby step.

No, you'll be okay.

Tyler, you're having second thoughts after all this wisdom we just dropped on you?

I just want to cover my base.

No, I appreciate it.

No, I I love it, but we covered it, man.

And we say to have babies, even if you have debt and you're working your way out, Tyler.

So even if you were on a different level financially, we'd still say to have kids.

I'd like to point out

Jade's Marvin Gay recommendation.

Babies, maybe come a little sooner than we did.

Listen.

Jade!

Wow.

Wow.

See?

You're welcome, Tyler.

See, you actually thought that was manipulative, but you both gave great advice to that young married man.

Thank you.

And speaking of Marvin Gaye, we got the outfit ready.

Speaking of smooth Marvin Gaye, there we go.

Look at old Joe.

I'm going to tell you, folks.

I'm as fresh as a new pair of sheets.

Hey,

fresh as the other side of the pillow.

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Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with the amazing Jade Warshaw, and we are here to answer your questions about life and money, relationships, career, anything, and everything.

So give us a call.

We're going to start off with Jacob in Indianapolis.

Hey, Jacob, welcome to the show.

Hey, how are you guys doing?

We're doing great.

How can we help?

So I have a quick

question about money and when to get started with the snowball effect.

So my girlfriend and I are expecting our first child, but we got the news that she is going to have Down syndrome and they're preparing us for many major surgeries right out of the gate.

We are currently

I have about twenty thousand in debt and my girlfriend has about a hundred and seventy thousand between student loans, cars

and just like a thousand on on a credit card.

Okay.

I don't, I was a gazelle intent for a while trying to get everything of mine paid down.

And I feel like the surgeries is kind of

put a major halt on that.

Yeah, and it should.

That's this is something that's coming up that is really, really important.

And we would say, even if this weren't the case, that you should put a pause on the baby steps just because there is a new life coming into the world.

and you don't know what the cost of that is going to be so you have good instincts to put paying off debt on hold my question to you uh jacob would be do you know what your out-of-pocket max is for the insurance for her insurance

um

no we kind of just recently found out about the surgeries and we're trying to figure out if it would be better to kind of do a shotgun wedding

i was gonna ask when are you gonna get married yeah when are you guys gonna get married?

Um, we were

the baby wasn't planned, so we were planning on doing it like sometime next year.

And

things have changed,

and I'm gonna say this too, Jacob.

Things have changed with this diagnosis.

I mean, having a baby is one thing, and then having a child with special needs, which I have

multiple friends, honestly, that have Down syndrome children, and they're the most precious, wonderful kids and babies in the entire world.

But like you said, it does come with a financial major responsibility.

So getting,

I think, a level of stability for you and your girlfriend together as a team is going to be huge.

And

marriage does that.

Like when you guys say, yeah, we have created this life together and we are, there's a level of stability in that, Jacob, that I would do.

And then once you guys get married,

then you're able to combine finances and tackle all of what's ahead together in such a united front that I think is gonna help from like an energy emotional perspective.

So so yes, I would do a shotgun wedding.

And your insurance is better than hers?

Is that what I heard you say?

Yeah, yeah, I'm with the union and she's kind of doing dental, like she's dental hygienist.

And most of

most

dentists don't provide insurance.

How how old are you guys?

25.

Okay, so sh

she's not on her parents.

is she still on her parents' insurance?

She is,

but we were talking with her dad about all of this and he was kind of leaning us towards getting online.

Okay, got it.

And so your homework, one of your biggest pieces of homework coming off this call is, yeah, you got to find out

once you move her onto yours, what the max is for her and what the max is for the two of you because that's going to inform what you need to have saved because you're going to hit that with these surgeries.

So, whether it's eight or ten or I don't know, twelve thousand,

you're going to need to figure out what that is and get that saved up.

So, if you were to put your money into an every dollar budget, what would what's your margin every month that you could put towards savings?

I'm doing a lot of side things right now, so it varies, but just off of like my paycheck from my hourly job, it's probably about like

$700.

Okay, so $700 a month.

And how many months pregnant is she?

She is

five.

Okay.

Okay.

So you've got, I mean, you've got half the pregnancy just about to try to stack this up as much as possible.

And now is a good time.

Yeah, if you can pick up extra work, because I really would love, it's just going to be a level of peace for you to go into all of this knowing, hey, the money is there.

All we have to do is just emotionally be there for each other.

From a bandwidth perspective, Jacob,

right now is the time to work 80 hours a week because by the time she comes into the world, you guys are going to be hands on deck for a while.

I mean,

you're going to be distracted and rightfully so.

I mean, it is your child.

And so anyone would be like that.

And you're going to want to spend more hours with the baby.

I mean, like, there's, there's just, it's going to change your life completely.

And the, and right now your life from a schedule perspective hasn't changed.

So I would up it.

I would do what I can right now.

And, and then you guys take care of that baby.

And then, you know, once you kind of get some grounding and some footing and some relancers and some reality, there may be some medical bills.

And then you guys are going to have to tackle all of your debt together

after

you guys feel settled, which for you and in this situation, it may be a little longer than just, we usually just say, you know, when mom and baby come home and everyone's good, you know, you throw everything at the dense snowball and you keep moving.

But for you guys, it's probably going to be stretched out a little bit longer.

And, and that's okay.

Like, like, don't, um,

don't feel bad about that is what I'm saying, because this is such a precious life and it's such a sensitive situation that you give yourself the grace to be fully present and there and do what you guys have to do.

But again, like Jade was saying, the more you can have going into this financially, the more peace you guys are going to have.

And when that baby comes, let me just say, you know, ask for what you need because you're a friend and everybody's going to come out of the woodwork and they're going to say things like, let me know if there's anything I can do if you need me.

And they kind of like throw the ball out there.

And you, it's out of you.

Yeah.

You slam it and say, you know, I could really use somebody to, we could really use some meals in the freezer.

We could really use someone to help, I don't know your wife's name, but help my wife clean the house.

Don't be afraid to ask because when people say that they truly do want to ask, they just don't always know what to offer so just tell them what you need

okay

um and one other thing since i kind of have like the lesser amount i have roughly like 19 to 20 000 do you think it would be wrong of me to kind of talk with her and be like hey let's knock all of mine out

once we get past these stages oh and then yeah if you guys are married at that point then i would combine everything and do the debt snowball and i would pay off her $1,000 credit card first.

You guys line up all of your debts together and pay them off, regardless of whose it is, smallest to largest.

So hers, you know, she might have some student loans in there.

I don't know, but you guys list it out smallest to largest.

So I would, if she has a couple of ankle biter debts, like a thousand dollar credit card here, two thousand dollar loan to her mom or whatever, I would knock those out first and then get to your 20.

But I would do the debt snowball once you guys and combine everything once you're married.

And again, once, yeah, you guys get get some grounding and some

realistic kind of reality of the baseline once your daughter comes.

But,

gosh, Jacob, I, yeah, our hearts are with you, but also I know she's going to be such a gift.

And I commend you guys for going forward with this because I know for a lot of people, they don't.

And there's just something in me as a mom.

I just admire that for you guys.

Amen.

So, you guys are going to love that little girl really well.

She has some great parents.

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Up next, we have Hannah in Phoenix.

Hi, Hannah.

Welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you guys?

We're doing great.

How can we help today?

So, my husband and I became officially 100% debt-free a month ago.

Nice.

Yes.

Congratulations.

Yes.

Thank you so much.

And during this process, we have been working really hard to, you know, save, to buy a house.

And about a month ago, our lender gave us a call and said that he was going to be able to give us a down payment assistance.

And so to go ahead and use our savings to, you know, get rid of the last of my husband's student loan debt.

And so we went ahead and did that.

And then he gave us a call earlier this week and said that he will be able to give us a better interest rate if we can come up with the down payment on our own.

And so we could do that, but it would be living like really, really tight.

Well, and also depending on how much they're willing to give us for concessions as well would affect it.

So, you know, if they do decide to only give us 2% concessions, then we would be about $2,000 short.

Plus, the house doesn't have a washer and dryer.

So like we need extra money for that, plus like, you know, utility deposits and that kind of thing.

So I was wondering, do you think it would be better for me to take out a small student loan and put it in a separate account to use just in case I'm a full-time engineering student?

Or just kind of try to put it on our credit cards?

Or what do you think we should kind of do for just like that $2,000 buffer?

You know, generally, can I be honest?

It makes me nervous that you're going in and buying a house and two thousand dollars is going to make or break the situation.

That's not good.

Does that feel tight to you?

Yeah.

I'm sorry, what?

Doesn't that kind of feel tight to you?

It does feel tight to me, but it, I mean, we have.

Do you not have an emergency fund?

Do you guys have an emergency fund?

Yes, we have $7,000 right now, and then by the end of the month, we'll be closer to $12,000 in savings.

Okay, why don't you use that then?

Use that money.

Whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Isn't that $5,000?

What's your income?

That's going to all go towards the down payment.

My husband brings home about $15,000 to $2,000

a week.

So $1,500 to $2,000.

Okay, so you've got, okay, so you got $6,000

and you're,

I think that your emergency fund is not even at the three-month level,

which means even with, do you see what I'm saying?

I have to agree with Rachel.

I think that you're not ready to do this just yet.

I think you could be ready in like six or eight more months, but I don't think you're ready yet.

And I think that.

Like if you can't afford a washer and dryer, Hannah,

I mean, I mean, gen genuine i'm being genuine of like oh my gosh what are you gonna do if the heating and air goes out what do you i mean like what do you like that's that's a small expense with a home like so we always say to have at least three to six months of expenses saved in the bank with at least a five percent down payment with no debt so are you guys completely debt-free

completely debt-free and we would oh yeah i'm sorry you said that about a month ago i'm sorry yeah you said that a month ago yeah sorry my daughter no you're fine trust us had more of an emergency fund but we literally just paid off my husband's entire student loan debt.

That's right.

Which is amazing.

So good.

Okay, why don't y'all tap the brakes for six months?

What's making you like rush into this?

Because I feel like, you know, paying $2,000 a month on rent is the greater evil than living tight and paying $2,000 a month

and investing in ourselves.

I see that, but let's paint the picture for you because this is so true.

First off,

the first giveaway here is you're already thinking about debt and credit.

You just paid off a buttload of money and you're already thinking about going back to debt and credit cards just for this $2,000 thing.

That's a mentality piece that lets me know, ooh, we're not in a good headspace.

Then two, Rachel is exactly right.

If you buy a $400,000 house and then turn around and can't pay a $4,000 bill for heating and air or if something happens, because something is going to happen, it will happen.

That is just the nature of home ownership.

It's not to be scary.

It's just part of it.

Then how much more will you then say, okay, we used debt before.

I guess we'll have to use it again.

This is a slippery slope and it's not anything against you

specifically, Hannah.

This is just how life goes when you're not prepared.

And I would just hate that for you.

You've worked so hard to get out of debt.

Yeah, I guess the way that I'm looking at it, though, is that this is just like a temporary challenge.

It's not.

Not if what I said takes place.

Now you're in debt again.

Here's, I'm going to be real with you.

Here's what it is.

You really like the house that's on the hook.

You love it.

That's what it is.

I mean, it's a fixer-upper that's going to be sweat expensive.

I know, but you still love it.

You still love it.

Otherwise, you wouldn't be putting an offer on it.

So that's really, that's the hard part of this conversation is what you're really going to have to decide between is do you trust that there could be another house on the market?

And if it's a fixer-upper, then there will be.

Yeah, that you can love and be ready to buy.

Because I'm telling you, there will be the hard part is yes not making that offer yeah and hannah i think too what we fight for on this show dr john zaloney said it and i think it's so true we are fighting for peace we are trying to create peace in our life and even if you're renting and throwing two thousand dollars away while you guys save up a bigger emergency fund you have little kids you know we heard them in the background they're so sweet you got kids there could be you know doctor's visits that come up health issues a job lot like life just happens it just does and to create peace you think in this moment that this house is, oh gosh, you're like, if we can just get into this, it's going to be just a better situation.

But financially, it's not right now for you guys.

And if anything, it's going to turn into a curse.

And it's actually going to create so, it can create, could create so much stress and anxiety.

You're giving the risk or the gamble that that could be the reality.

And then you look up and you're like, we are deeper in debt because of a washer and dryer.

We had to take out a student loan to get $3,000 here.

We had this happen and this happened.

I mean, slowly, you could look up and you're $10,015,000 in debt again.

And then you guys are at this point where you're like, oh my gosh, like, what have we done?

You've gone backwards.

And then the house is a fixture-upper.

You're going to get in there.

You're going to find mold behind this wall.

The plumbing here isn't going to work.

It always costs more and takes longer with renovations.

I mean, it just turns into, I mean, you're setting yourself up for a very stressful situation, Hannah.

That's what we see.

And I know it sounds like we're being Debbie Downer.

And we may be because we just get, we hear reality

on this show all the time.

So if we're fighting for peace, it may not be exciting and flashy and fun, and what we want, what we're desiring in the moment, but if we can say no to ourselves to be smart and create some delayed gratification and wait till even the spring, January, February,

and have, you know, you guys could have, gosh, you got seven, I mean, you guys could have twenty thousand dollars in an emergency fund, have a full-down payment that you are so confident that you are great, you know, giving away.

And then something happens, you're like, great, we have actual margin in our budget and we got a $20,000 emergency fund, a $30,000.

Do you know what I'm saying?

Like that's peaceful to me.

You're just setting.

So it's just like, there's just a lot.

There's a lot that could go wrong.

So

I know it's probably what don't, and I know it's not 20 years,

but that's how I feel.

So if you can't afford a washer or dryer, I'm going to say you can't afford a house right now.

Yeah.

But one other thing I wanted to like point out is would you be giving me different advice if

we hadn't paid off that $7,000 student loan and we had that as a buffer?

No, okay.

Oh,

if you had $7,000?

If we hadn't, because we would have to do that.

Well, you'd still have debt $7,000 towards his.

You'd still have debt, so we still would give you the same.

We would say, hey, pay off the debt, save up three to six months.

Yeah, the advice would not change.

It'd be the exact same formula.

And I just, now that we've uncovered a little bit here, Hannah, I just got to ask.

So you guys are also doing no more than 25% of your take-home, right?

I just want to be sure.

Towards the mortgage?

No, no, no.

After you've put the down payment down,

the amount that you'd pay on your mortgage, it's only 25%, right, of your take-home after tax?

I believe so.

I think that the lender said that depending if we spent

depending on concessions and that kind of thing is going to be between 25 and 30%.

Okay, so that I also wanted to bring that up.

That is out of, I don't want to say it's the most important number to know, but that is of huge importance to know going forward when you do get a house.

That's what you want to know.

You want to make sure you're no more than 25%.

Cause again, kids, life happening.

You need that margin.

Yeah, absolutely.

Gosh, Hannah, I saw that girl.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry because it's the right move.

I don't know if she's going to take our advice, but we wish you well, Hannah.

We wish you well.

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All right, today's question comes from Ty in Texas.

He says, My girlfriend and I have been discussing marriage and engagement rings.

Love it.

We're both 24 years old.

I make $70,000 a year and have a small amount of student loan debt that we can knock out easily after the wedding.

What do you recommend spending on an engagement ring?

Am I being cheap for wanting to purchase a lab-grown diamond?

I'm fine with spending a bit more on a natural stone, but don't want my girlfriend to think I'm cheap.

Okay.

Well, there's two parts to this question.

Part of it is preference, right?

I don't, I mean, if she doesn't, some people don't care about diamonds per se, they care about the look of the ring, so she cares more about the look of the ring, and she's willing to do a lab-grown diamond to get that look.

A lot of people are doing that these days, yeah.

And they look beautiful.

I'll be honest, you can't really, you can't really tell.

No, I don't think anyone's asking.

If I see someone's engagement ring, I'm always like, oh, beautiful.

You're kind of looking at the size, right?

Yeah, you're either dang, that's a big ring.

I don't know.

And it's always like, is that lab-grown?

Yeah, no, I'm cutting you off.

You're cut off.

Okay.

But if she wants a natural, so I wouldn't guess on the engagement ring of what she wants.

If you guys are, yeah, ask her.

And just know that if it's a real one, it's probably going to be smaller.

Or you're, you know, you get more bang for your buck if you go lab grown.

So just, I would, I would ask that.

But how much, oh, yeah, we usually say a month's salary.

So whatever you make in one month, that would be the amount that we would spend.

Can I say that that's the minimum?

Yes.

Yes, you can, Jaden.

I think like the diamond, the diamond

world or in gate or the ring world, the engagement world, I think they say three months.

Yeah, yeah, they do.

They do.

That's what they

say is average.

I tend to love that.

But at the same time, like you said, you've got debt.

There are, there are, I'm, I'm being silly.

There are more things to consider.

You do have some debt to pay off.

You guys do have a wedding possibly to fund.

I don't know who's paying for the wedding.

So do think about those things.

And if, you know, if you got a little extra cash, throw it on there.

Bump it up.

Are you against upgrading rings later in life you know what it's funny that you say that first off i forgot to wear my wedding ring today which is bananas on one of our breaks she was like i forgot my wedding ring yeah it's crazy and so i put my aura ring on it but um

you know i had the thought When I first got engaged, it was like, oh, you can always upgrade your ring.

But I don't know about you.

You grow a connection to it.

And I'm like, I love my ring.

It's got its inclusions and it's, you know, it's not perfect, but I love it.

I could never imagine not wearing that ring at this point.

Yeah, that's fair.

Like the actual diamond.

Yes.

Yes.

No, no.

Totally.

Totally.

I know.

I've heard people do creative things.

They like, well, take the diamond and make a necklace or like do other things like with it.

That's a good idea.

But that's that's an option too, Ty.

So that is.

That's a great option.

That's fun, though.

That's a fun season in life.

The whole engagement ring shop and all of it.

Oh, my gosh.

So good.

All right.

Let's go to Sam in Ohio.

Hey, Sam.

Welcome to the show.

Hello.

Hello.

How can we help today?

I had a question.

I falling out of

philosophical alignment with

my better half on finances and I was

wondering how to align that back up.

What's the, where are you guys not aligned?

Which part?

Well,

we were self-employed.

We had a company for a long time.

And then 2021, we had some tragedy hit.

And so we shut one leg of the company down.

And I continued to be self-employed.

I'm trying to short this up.

I continued to be self-employed.

And I brought her back to Ohio

from another state to be closer to her kids.

So we shut a whole thing down, and she ended up taking a job at a plant.

And, you know,

throughout

the 25-year company, you know, throughout the years, we always practiced delayed gratification

and whatnot.

And now

we're at a point where she's, um,

you know, after

our step, my stepson was murdered

after that happened,

uh, I guess she kind of checked out.

I mean, uh, you look and you talk to her and she's like, uh,

okay, the same person, but she just she doesn't care about money or anything anymore.

And

now I changed some things with a, we ended up winding that business down, got a different one going, and I've created a lifetime residual income.

And I have

homes in three states,

Washington, Ohio, and Florida.

And so

you're doing well financially, but you're saying she's checked out mentally and she's doing behaviors with money that I'm not going to do.

She's checked out financially as well.

She doesn't care about money.

She wants to keep working at this job.

Okay.

And

she just gives all her money away to her kids, which is another basket of problems.

Okay.

And is she seeing anybody?

Is she getting help?

I mean, what you described is

traumatic.

Yeah.

On the highest level.

Yeah, well, it is.

And we recently, you know, right after that, we went through a period where we had to take care of my parents and then both of them passed away.

And so like the last three, four, four, five years have been a whirlwind.

So yes, you know, we split apart, got bag together.

We are in counseling, but I kind of feel like she's just kind of

telling the counselor what he needs to hear kind of thing.

And

I want her to get on the right page.

What are you wanting from her, Sam, from a financial perspective that you guys are not aligned on?

Is it giving money to the kids?

The fact that she doesn't initiate conversations with money.

She doesn't care.

Like, what's the

well, well, you know, I mean,

at this point, I don't want her necessarily to be working anymore.

But

does she want to work?

She, well, yes and no.

Yes and no.

But

I'd say, yeah,

she wants to

keep the thing because she keeps funding

her kids.

Well, what's wrong with her working?

You tell us what's

well not what's wrong with it and this is the only thing is is you know um

i'm at the point where we're at the point now where we were working for before

where it's time to stop working and then every two or three months we were going to be in a in a in a different different home different climate i mean my kids are on the other side of the country and my grandma so sam real quick we're kind of running out of time i want to make sure we can help you with how what you called in with so

what's your net worth?

Do you guys have a lot of debt?

Do you have a lot of surplus?

Like, where are you at net worth-wise?

Net worth,

in equity, a little over $14 million.

Okay.

So you're saying she doesn't need to work.

She can stop.

You think probably it's better for her mentally to stop?

I don't know yet.

Her motivation for working, you don't like because it's just her giving money to her kids and enabling her kids is what you you think right well that that that that's part of it but the other part is this is a time of life where we were going to be doing something different you know traveling gotcha okay i got you i gotcha you know yeah so yeah it's painting what john deloney would say you're like putting pictures to words that you guys you had a picture of what this time of life was going to look like and here she is working a nine to five and giving the paycheck to the kids and you're like no no no you're supposed to be unplugged we've worked really hard and done really well financially and we should be traveling and all of that.

So, I mean, from what

I just wonder within her, because you said

she's changed some, she's there, but she's not fully there.

You've said that a couple times on the call, which makes sense since the tragedy.

So I just wonder for her

where the healing is for her, because there's some level of security and safety that this way of functioning is giving her.

Yeah, or an outlet of some kind.

And as a husband, husband, you're seeing it and saying, like, there's other ways to deal with this in a healthier way that also could add to our quality of life as a couple.

And so, I mean, honestly, Sam, I think that this would be a conversation about what's going on within you and what you're desiring and wanting.

And then, you know, helping, encouraging her to continue to get some healing.

And it may be more than just couples therapy.

Like,

her stuff may be really deep because of the tragedy that happened, which makes total sense.

The more more healing she has, the healthier those outcomes are going to be.

Well, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and you you feel like you just can't get ahead, make sure to check out one of our free every dollar trainings.

So, we do these trainings every single week throughout this month, and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities.

I've done a couple, Jade.

I know you've done some.

I'll be there Monday.

Yeah, so we are so enjoying these, you guys.

And there's like hundreds of you guys, sometimes over a thousand, but they're completely free.

And we're able to show you how to stick to a budget and even find $9,000 of margin within your money.

And that's great margin to help you get out of debt.

That's a lot of money.

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So, if you have any questions that you want answered, you can even sign up and ask that question live in the QA because we do a live one as well.

So, you can go to ramseysolutions.com slash webinar and sign up.

And we will be doing those every week in this coming month.

Oh, yeah.

Love it.

All right.

First up, we have David in Spokane, Washington.

Hi, David.

Welcome to the show.

Hey, guys.

Thanks for having me.

Absolutely.

How can we help?

Yeah.

So I'm currently on baby step one

and I'm curious to know if I should be making an exception to the $1,000 in savings and increasing that to for myself around $7,000.

That's a big increase.

Why would you do that?

Well, my transmission is going on my car.

I know

it's, I guess, a pending

expense that I'm anticipating in the next few months.

Okay.

So

let me clarify something, and I think it'll help you, and I think it'll help listeners.

So one of the things about an emergency fund that qualify whether or not you use it is if something is necessary.

If something is

time sensitive, like it must be done right now.

And if it's unexpected, I feel like that's when you go and you dip into the emergency fund.

Now, if we know something is coming and we know that it's, you know,

we're going to have to get the AC fixed, we're going to have to get the oil change, we're going to have to, those are things that we would say maybe do a sinking fund for, and so that you can prepare for it as you know it's coming

versus always having to go into the emergency fund.

And I know that's not what you're trying to do, but I just want to clarify that before we give you our advice going forward.

Sure.

So is that like separate?

Would I be

I'd like to contribute quite a bit out of my paychecks each month to save up?

Because right now I have

$1,700

saved.

So I guess

that's more than

the $1,000 anyways.

So are you suggesting making payments to that sinking fund as if I was making payments to an emergency fund?

Yeah.

What I'm saying is kind of keep it separate in your mind.

Like my $1,000 is over here.

That's my emergency fund.

I'm not touching that.

I do have something that's coming up that I know has to be done.

And I'm going to kind of start putting a little money aside for that as I'm working the baby steps.

Sure.

Okay.

How much is it going to cost?

Is the transmission $7,000?

Is that what it is?

Well, it's $6,000.

I was thinking to have an overhead of $1,000 to keep

into the

how much is the car worth?

Well, the car's worth, I bought it a year ago for $10,000.

Oh.

And

well, actually, no, let me think about this: $12,000, and I owe $6 on it still.

Oh, man.

That's the problem: is that

I don't know.

Would you suggest maybe even just fixing it and selling it and getting rid of this debt and buying like a beater?

Is it still drivable?

Like,

has it already happened?

Or you're like, this is going to happen soon?

I know it's going to happen soon.

Yeah.

It's just been showing signs.

Then I might get out of it while you still can before it needs the repair because you can sell it at this point.

It's not undrivable.

Yeah.

And then take that money with your 6,000 or with your whatever you have saved.

Yeah, I kind of have a guilty conscience selling it to someone, you know.

Yeah, have you taken it to a mechanic and they're telling, I don't, I'll be honest, David, I don't know much about cars.

So how do you know it's going out?

Like, have you, have you had it

in the shop?

I work on cars.

Okay.

Okay.

I work on cars quite a lot.

I see.

Yeah.

Okay.

Because I don't want you to be dishonest.

No, you don't want to do that.

I get it.

I just, if you're like, it's showing signs, and I'm like, anybody who drives it is going to know what they're getting into if it's showing signs.

But,

yeah, I have a hard time with, I mean, you could.

How much debt do you have, David?

Total.

So that's the thing:

I have student loan debt on top of that.

I have

29,052 in federal loans and then 4,472 in private loans.

Okay.

And how much do you make a year?

Well, I just got a second job

on top of my full-time job.

So, yeah, what do you make in a month after tax?

Like, what are you bringing home a month?

I should be bringing home $4,700.

Okay.

This is out the second job.

Right now, what I'm at is

$4,100.

Okay.

And are you, you said you work on cars?

Would you be doing the work on the transmission?

You're doing the work?

No, I do that as a hobby.

That's not my full-time employment.

Got you.

No, I understand it's not your full-time employment, but I'm just saying, is this something you would do?

No.

Okay.

Yeah, transmission is a little bit too hard for me.

Yeah.

Yeah, this is a tough one.

I think

if you think that

for $6,000,

do you think it's going to last you for another five, six, seven years?

Like,

would it be a great car for a while?

It's just got this issue?

It's a Toyota.

I mean, everything else seems to be in working order, and I don't have a reason to think it

won't work.

Yeah, I mean, here's the thing.

The magic of the debt snowball is that you create this momentum.

It's kind of like the scorched earth.

You see progress that's happening and people end up getting out of debt faster than they thought they would.

The human behavior changes.

I mean, there's just so much psychology and all of this that happens.

And that's the beauty of it.

And so to be able to start that as soon as possible is huge.

But we also say if you know something big is coming up in your life, whether it's a job change, a move, a baby, like there's something that's going to create a big expense.

We do encourage people on baby step two to pause, save up, to be able to cash flow those situations.

So I almost, David, and again, you know cars and your car better than I do.

So you make the decision of, do I fix this, sell it, and take a smaller loan and or be, you know, free and clear of the six grand,

which if you can, that's amazing, right?

I mean, like, there's something about that that you're $6,000 less in debt, or for you, if you fix it, it's going to be a great car.

It should last me a lot longer.

Then the $6,000 is almost an investment to fix it, but then you still got $6,000 left to pay off of the loan.

So I think it's kind of like one way or the other.

I mean, yeah, but the reality is

you're going to need a car.

And

if you see this coming, you know, there may be this instance of like, get the thousand dollars, have a side transmission, you know, fund that you're putting some money in.

But if you can throw extra at the debt,

I would do that as well.

I would kind of keep that debt.

I would start that debt snowball, start putting some extra just so you see some progress with the debt while simultaneously saving on the side and knowing that you're going to have to fix this car.

I kind of like the idea.

You know how it is with beaters.

It's like once you get to know them, it's like that, this one's mine.

I know, I know what's going to happen here.

I almost like the idea of you sticking with the one you know, then trading it for another one that's going to to have its own new set of issues, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I think you're just going to have to spend $6,000 to fix it over time.

And save up and pay for it.

And

the good news is that I can ride my bike to work and

get a grocery store.

So like everything I need is right here.

You got the spirit.

You got the spirit to do it.

I've only put 60 miles on it in the last two months.

Oh, wow.

I've just been walking and riding my bike.

So it it worked.

What a god.

Well, there you go.

That's some low maintenance, David.

We appreciate that.

We do.

I love that.

Because if I told somebody to ride their bike, people would come for me in the comments.

Yeah, they Jay, you're crazy.

You're crazy.

And I rode my bike just the other day.

That's awesome.

Okay, David.

Well, I hope that helps.

And yeah, great job on starting this process.

I'm proud of you for

getting a program and a plan in place with your money.

That's what we like to see.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Hey, George Camel here.

So you're thinking about buying or selling your home.

It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming.

Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone.

Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence.

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That's ramseysolutions.com/slash real estate.

Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that we love, and create amazing relationships.

I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with the incredible Jade Warshaw, and we are answering your questions about life, money, relationships, career, anything and everything.

So name it.

That's it.

Give us a call at 888-825-5225, and we are here to help you.

Up first, we have Gus in Spanish Fork, Utah.

Okay.

Hi, Gus.

Welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks, Rachel.

Absolutely.

How can we help today?

So I just have an

interesting question, I guess.

I am on baby step two right now, paying off all my debt.

And for my job, I travel and I do events around the state.

And a lot of times I well, every time, I guess, I book for my own travel,

being hotels, gas and food.

And sometimes that costs like, well, close to $1,000.

And I'm just curious what y'all would recommend doing.

Obviously, I know you don't like credit cards.

That's what I've been using for this purpose.

But I just kind of want to know how I can do this without using a credit card or my emergency fund.

Is do you have cash?

Or is it beyond the amount of cash within your monthly cash flow?

It is usually beyond that.

Just depending on the month, I'll have anywhere from one event.

Sometimes we'll do five or six events.

Is it what kind of events are these?

Are you being hired for these events, or are these your job and then you get paid?

Like, how, what is it exactly?

So they're home shows.

I work for a utility company, and I offer, well, I help homeowners get rebates and stuff.

So

I go and I talk to homeowners at events, like set up a booth, kind of like a trade show type situation.

So it's not your business.

You work for the company?

Correct, yeah.

And they're not paying for your travel?

That's what I'm saying.

They reimburse me for it,

but I

pay for it up front because I'm booking my own hotels and everything.

Oh, gosh.

So, yeah, I would, that arrangement needs to change because what happens?

What happens if you've racked up a certain amount and A, if they contend the charges or B, what happens if you're, you know, if you lose that job or you decide to move on and they decide they don't want to pay?

So I would be sitting down with whoever your leader is and very respectfully saying, hey, here's what's happening.

I don't use credit cards and I don't have debt.

And so what you're asking me to spend goes beyond my margin every month and I don't have a way to pay for it.

Can you

upfront the money for me and give me petty cash, or give me, I don't know, maybe they have a company debit card and I can use that and then I submit all the receipts along with, you know, the bank statements or whatever it is.

That's normal, by the way.

Yeah, I was going to say, that's a pretty like standard practice.

If there's a company and part of your job for them is to travel, they usually take the initiative to say, yeah, we're paying for your travel for the company.

How many people is it in the company that travel?

Um,

well, it's a pretty big company.

I think there's well, here

even more reason for them to upfront you the money,

yeah.

But there's probably, I bet, close to 100 around the country.

Okay, so that's what I would do.

Plan A, if for some reason they don't change their policy, but you still love it and you still want to stay, plan B, Gus, would be that you then have to have a work account that

you're going to to have to kind of act like you are, you know,

getting out of debtness, like with the same level of sacrifice and stuff to put $1,500 or so away in a separate account.

And that account is there for when you travel.

But you have to be, I would make it a goal to be on the front end of it versus being in the hole

financially.

And this is your work.

So I almost would pause the debt snowball and save up that extra $1,150.

So you can keep working.

Yeah, so you can keep this going, this job.

And the arrangement is that you spend out of that account.

And that's how I would do it.

I wouldn't go in the hole and then wait for them to fill the in the hole.

I would be on a, on a solid foundation.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, almost like it's like an emergency fund.

Yeah, that's what I would do.

Gus, I had a job that was like that.

When I worked on cruise ships, you would go travel and some of them would give you a stipend up front, but it was never enough.

And so you're having to go through, you know, and go from your own money.

So Rachel is

actually exactly right.

I mean, some jobs just won't budge on that.

Yeah.

And if you're fine with it,

great.

But if you're not, you know,

I could totally understand wanting to get the money up front.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I wouldn't, I would feel

uneasy about charging all of this and then just waiting for them.

Yeah.

Because the credit, I mean, the credit card's in your name, all of it.

Like, there's just more risk on your name.

Definitely don't do a credit card.

Ugh.

Yeah.

You know?

How much debt do you have?

So, right now, I have student loans and my truck, and I'm about 46,000K in.

Okay.

How much do you make a month?

Let's see.

I make 80K here.

Post-tax, I make about 3,200, sorry, $5,200 a month.

Okay.

How much margin do you have right now?

If you just did like food, shelter, utilities, transportation, healthcare, like all your main expenses, how much extra do you have per month?

I'm not entirely sure.

My wife and I, we just had a baby, so I need to recalculate that.

Okay, congratulations.

That's exciting.

I'm surprised you're even coherent to talk to us with a newborn.

I know it's a lot.

Okay, well, guys, what we're going to do is we're going to give you every dollar premium.

And this is our budgeting app.

And you and your wife sit down this weekend and you guys create a monthly budget.

And the great thing about every dollar is you're able to see all of your expenses because they give you kind of a template to say, hey, here are the main expenses in life.

You guys say, okay, here's what we make every month and here's our expenses.

What's our margin?

Because you're going to want to know that number as well, Gus, to be able to know how fast you guys are going to be able to get out of debt.

But for the interim, I would use that margin.

And again, you guys are in debt.

So there's no out to eat.

There's no saving for vacations.

There's no, I mean, there's nothing.

Like you're cutting everything, cut subscriptions.

Like it is scorched earth as you're getting out of debt.

So when you see your budget, just delete a lot of the line items that you would have done.

You're like, here, like, what, how much margin can we get per month realistically?

And if it takes you a month or two to save up that thousand dollars or two thousand dollars for your work, I would make that priority number one.

And then take that extra, whatever it is per month, let's say it's a thousand bucks, I don't know,

that you can get and start tackling this debt.

So that's kind of the process, but you need to know that margin number, Gus, for you guys to really get on the same page and know like, here's what we're shooting for every month and our goal of getting out of debt.

And so yeah, if you'll hold on the line, our team will hook you up with a code and you guys can get a year of every dollar premium for free, our treat.

That's great.

But yeah, this is a

this is a tough one.

And we've heard a lot about work with like reimbursements and expenses.

And like,

it is a thing, but if you can make it a workaround where you're more in control, that's the better off you're going to be.

Come on, these big companies, they need to go ahead and pony up the cash.

Oh, so bizarre.

I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home, scared, doesn't even begin to cover it, but I got mad enough to change.

I started using God's and grandma's ways of handling money.

That journey became the total money makeover, a plan everyday people can use to take control of their money.

Millions have changed their lives following the plan in this book and found hope.

Start your makeover today at ramseysolutions.com slash store.

Up next in New Mexico, we have Dee on the line.

Hi, Dee, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you?

We're doing great.

How can we help today?

My husband is going on deployment here

shortly.

Okay.

And my question is, he's going to make quite a bit more than he makes normally.

So we don't want to change our budget.

But my question is this.

We both have student loan debt.

That's really the only debt we have.

But he has the option of public service loan forgiveness, and I have nothing as a stay-at-home mom.

Should we focus on paying mine with the debt snowball or doing it jointly?

The public service

payoff, what does that entail?

Give me some of the details around that.

If you pay the minimum payment due

and you make those 10 years of payments, they will forgive the rest of the Okay, so it's over the 10-year mark.

It's nothing specific with the military where they'll pay it off after like six months of deployment.

It's over 10 years.

Okay, so there's a lot changing with that right now, Dee.

Well, I can tell you this.

I can tell you that

the current stats on that is very low, like less than 2%.

Actually get it done.

And now with new administration we're seeing those tighten up even more and it's kind of indeterminable what what will be and what will not be on that so for those reasons alone I would not depend on that I would just take both of your loans together yeah and list them smallest to largest and I don't want you in debt for 10 years either even if they were even if they were forgivable in 10 years I want you out of it absolutely um yes but what Jade was just saying was yeah listing them smallest to largest so how much do you how much will he be making when he's deployed?

Like, what will the margin be per month?

We're having a surplus

of 38, I want to say.

I worked on these notes, and they're all of them price.

No, you're fine, you're fine.

That's great.

Well, he's a police officer in his day life, and so his day job, and that is we're just going based on the guarantee 40 hours.

They do a lot of times get overtime, but we don't want to budget based on what it's.

Sure.

So, his actual take-home is $36.90 with the police plus or minus.

And then he gets his normally National Guardsman pay at about $5.50 a month.

But in the National Guard, he's going to make

on the deployment, he'll make $37.58 per paycheck, so times two.

Okay.

And he'll keep his police officer salary going when he's deployed?

No.

No, that would be a good idea.

We're switching only to the salary.

They do keep your job for you, but you don't get

paid, obviously.

Okay.

Okay.

And then how much?

The surplus of almost $4,600

over the course of that year.

Okay.

Okay.

And how much student loan debt is there?

Jointly, we have $110,000, $858, and $49.

Wait, say $110,000?

Yes, $858.49.

Okay.

And those

were

or 63,000.

I've got it down to 48,000 online.

Yeah, that's great.

Yeah, I mean, I go back to what I said before.

Just make sure you guys go through these and really do do them smallest to largest as opposed to his versus hers, because then you are going to get that momentum that we want and you're going to get those quicker wins.

It's hard to look at a mountain of 63,000 and say, okay, that's what's next.

But if you break it up and go, you know, okay, the next one is 4,000 and the next one after that is 6,000, then it is a lot, you know, easier to handle mentally and money-wise.

Yeah, for sure.

Well, thanks, Steve, for the call.

And thanks for your husband's sacrificing yours

as a spouse of

someone being deployed.

It's a real sacrifice.

So we appreciate you guys so much for what you do for our country.

Up next, we have Greg in Albany, New York.

Albany, Albany.

Listen to me.

Albany.

Hey, Greg, welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely.

How can we help?

I was curious if there was ever an instance where a whole life policy made sense i just i don't understand why they exist because they seem to be as you guys say bad investments and bad not really good at insurance policies so i was just kind of curious where they came from or why they exist or

if there's ever an instance where it might make sense

yeah i would say the only time I know we've ever told someone to get a whole life policy is if they had a terminal illness and they didn't have insurance in place.

It's pretty much impossible to get term life in that case.

And for some whole life insurance companies, you're able to still get insurance, even if there is a condition.

From a health perspective, it's much easier to get whole life than term life.

Because we would say, get life insurance, like we want that for you.

And so sometimes people don't qualify for term because of the state of their health.

So that would be the only instance we've ever said because, to your point, it is like it's such a rip-off product.

And honestly,

they prey on people that don't have all the information because the way they sell it and the way it's presented sounds incredible.

It sounds like this great product that's going to help.

And I'm, you know, so whether it's the side of like, oh, I get, I get life insurance through my whole life or the savings and investing that comes with it and all of it.

So the way they package it,

make it sound like it's a great deal to the consumer, where the truth is.

And it's always,

oh, sorry.

I think that's good.

No, you're good.

No, it's just very expensive compared to term life and what you could be investing.

Yeah.

And I think for the companies that do it, I think it's a way for them to get into investing without having a securities license.

Like they're able to sell an investment product without actually being a licensed investment

professional.

So I think that's also where there's a little bit of a

what I'll say a area.

Yeah, it's a big red flag.

Yeah, for sure.

You know, because yeah, it's still a product.

And at the end of the day, you have to remember folks are trying to make money out here.

So, I mean, that's really the short end of the answer.

Yeah, but it's such a well-marketed product that people don't look into the fine print and the details and the other options, too.

Because I do think life insurance is one of those sectors in life that, you know, you can easily prey on fear and greed.

And it's like, here's something that's going to be, you know.

great for you financially and also you know the fear of oh gosh if something happens so um we are a proponent of life insurance though.

So I do want people to hear us say that.

But term life insurance is what we promote.

And you want about 10 times your annual income.

If you're a stay-at-home parent, we recommend getting half a million or even $700,000 on you,

even as a stay-at-home parent.

But you can check out Xander Insurance.

They are the company that we recommend because they do a great job at shopping multiple insurance companies and not just sticking with one to get you the best rate.

It's the way Winston and I have our term life insurance.

We did it through Xander and it's fantastic.

And just to clarify, you know, the way that the reason that we're saying term life is because 100% then of your premium is going towards your benefit, right?

Whereas with Whole Life, it is being divided up.

And the reason we don't like it is because they're taking half of your premium, which is what you pay every month for the policy.

They're putting part of it to your benefit, your death benefit, which is what your family would receive if you passed away.

And the other part goes towards what's what's called a cash value amount that's being invested.

And that investment, the reason we don't like it, is because the rate of return on that investment is very, very poor, like really bad.

Some of them are like 4%,

not good at all.

And the biggest thing is that cash value amount, you don't get that.

And your family doesn't, you surely don't get it if you pass away, but your family doesn't get it if you pass away either.

So the only way that you get access to that cash value is if you were to borrow against it, which is like, why would you do that?

The whole point is to not be in debt.

The other way is if you were to just cash out the policy, which if that, again, what was the point of even having it if you're cashing it out?

Right.

And so that's what happens here.

Um, it's just it's not a well-thought-through product.

So, for if anybody was wondering, hey, why don't you do this?

And if you really were to take the amount that goes towards that cash value investment, if you invested it yourself

in a good growth stock mutual fund, what we would suggest, you're going to get upwards of a 10% return, which obviously you can see.

Why would you take a 4% return when you can choose a 10% and choose what it's invested in?

So hopefully I made a good case for

a lot more control.

Oh, yeah.

And you guys, if you don't have life insurance, again, please get life insurance.

Please.

It's one of the saddest calls that I think we get on the Ramsey show is a spouse passes and

the other spouse is left to deal with everything and there's no money.

And so set your family up well, and term life is inexpensive.

And yeah,

use the difference of what you would have paid for whole life to invest it yourself.

And you'll make twice as much money, which is what we want for you.

So this is the Ramsey Show.

Hey, what's up?

Dr.

John Deloney here.

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All right, let's go to Loretta in Ohio.

Hi, Loretta.

Welcome to the show.

Hello, thank you so much for taking my call.

Absolutely.

How can we help today?

So, my husband has a job that he loves, provides very well for our family.

He brings in approximately $115 a year.

Loves his job, however, has a lot of headache with it.

Kind of, he has a high position in the company, and so he has a lot of the headache of the company.

And so, recently, we have been thinking about branching out on our own.

We just aren't sure if it's financially the right time for our family to do so.

What kind of business is it that you guys would branch out to?

So he has been in the automotive business, auto and fleet, like working on cars for almost 15 years now.

He's been working with his employer now for 10 years,

which happens to be my brother.

So that kind of makes it a little bit stickier.

Oh, yeah.

A little bit.

Yes.

But he's also, I mean, they respect each other.

We don't think that there would be any hard feelings.

However, I mean, the two of them kind of, my brother branched out on his own.

And six months later, my husband started working for him.

So they've kind of built the business from the ground.

And he just...

My brother is a lot of the time not there at the business.

And so my husband really just kind of takes it under his wings and does that.

And so, and he does really well with it.

He's really good at his job.

Gets treated well.

I mean, with nothing bad to say about the company.

Sure.

So what would you guys be doing?

You said you're going to branch out.

Have you guys done anything on your own sidewise that you have started and that you were kind of going to merge into?

Or would this be like,

because I don't want it to be a light switch.

Yeah, no, he'd be in the same business.

So we're thinking about starting our own auto business in the same

shop, basically.

It would be a couple towns over.

So I mean, as far as taking clients or anything like that is not the plan.

We do, we have talked to somebody that is willing to

put up a shop and rent it out for us.

And so we would be paying rent for that for the company.

In the beginning, real estate where we're at is really expensive.

So that kind of has been out of the option for us to be buying and building.

So we have a place that we can rent.

We've looked into equipment and things like that.

However, we would need to be getting a loan.

Oh,

we have.

That's the kicker.

Tell us how much it would take.

That's the kicker.

We are hoping we can do it between $150,000 and $200,000.

And we don't have any debt personally for our family.

Like we've paid off all expenses except for our mortgage.

And we have a mortgage we started with $485 years ago.

And we are down to $240,000 now.

So can I clarify?

Can I clarify with you?

Because I love that you paid off the debt, but it's not going to convince me to tell you to go into 200,000 of debt.

With the automotive, I want to make sure I have the right thing in my head of what it is.

Is it

explain it more?

It's not he's working on cars.

It's what is it?

Or is it that he's working on cars?

When they started, he worked on cars for almost eight years.

He mechanically would fix them.

So we expect in the beginning of us starting our own thing, he would need to go back to doing that

and kind of build himself up to where he's at right now.

And he's more than willing to do that.

But right now, he is strictly in the office for the business that he's at.

He does talks with customers.

He has a great relationship with,

he's kind of the glue for the clients in the business, basically.

And he has a gift of speaking with people.

Okay, so tell me this, Loretta.

What's causing him?

to not does he just want to own his own thing is that like one of the main motivations I'm just wondering if he can scratch this itch within the gig that he has, so you don't have to take $200,000 of debt because you guys can't afford to start a business right now, the Ramsey way, at least.

And so,

is there a shift that he can make within this business?

Because it sounds like him and your brother have a really great relationship.

The way you set it up, which makes sense.

Like, I work in a family business.

I'm like, there is a way to do it in a healthy way that you respect each other.

So, is there some shifting that can happen either from pay or his position, or is it that he just wants to completely do his own thing and not have to handle because if he's good at it, he's going to end up growing his own thing.

And I'm scared he's going to be back right back in the position he's in now, in a sense, as an owner.

But that's even more risk and more stress that you put on.

Yes, and I think it's not so much he's not looking to get rid of the stress or

he just wants it to be having the responsibility of the business without actually owning it.

Okay, okay.

And

can I ask a question?

So you you said it'd be a couple of towns away.

Sure.

Is it like,

is it a situation where if he if he wanted to, if let's say you guys move and it's 45 minutes away, could he start kind of building up a clientele in another town whilst he's working elsewhere?

If it's not pulling clients, do you see what I'm saying?

If it's, if it's not competing with the other business, can he start small?

Is there a way to get it?

On Saturdays, you know, on his off days, kind of start doing this, yeah, on a small scale and you guys build up some extra income from this kind of looking at it as a side hustle yeah um

could he do that like is there a place that i know you have to have machinery and different things but like is there i don't know any creative ways to do that

In one way, yes, maybe, but in another, we would also have to, you would still have to buy your car lists and things like that.

And those, I mean, you're looking at 20, 30,000 per list.

But what if he rented out a place that was already, like, is there a way that he can rent out this this was already an auto body shop and we're just renting it

yeah um i mean i guess we haven't really thought about it in that way it's just um him leading this company he has no reservations um if i'm being honest like he and i know like he'll thrive if he does this um i'm the one that is kind of holding back um and here's the kicker also in i'm one semester into nursing school as a mom of three and so when I made this commitment to do nursing school, we really wanted to go through it without taking any loans.

I didn't want any student loan debt.

And are you?

No, I haven't.

But I'm scared that if he does this and we pour everything into the business, and then we'll just get overwhelmed with that.

You're doing a lot.

And it's a lot of.

Yeah.

I think that

if I were in your shoes, if this was Jade and Sam, I probably would want to have the conversation of, here's the thing.

I understand that you're getting anxious where you're at.

This is the season that I'm going to school, and I don't think that we can do both of these at the same time.

I'd like to finish the course that we set.

And if we do that, we might look up and we may have saved a lot more towards your goal.

I think we do both of our things, but I think we stay the course.

I finish school.

We save what we can.

And then we're able to tackle, because to your point, he's feeling stressed right now, but he's not in a toxic work environment.

Nothing's on fire.

Yeah.

So, Loretta, when you start nursing,

how long will it take you to graduate?

Two years?

Four years?

I'm not going full-time because of the kids.

I have a three-year-old that's not in school yet, so we're looking between three and four.

Okay.

Okay.

And then when you graduate, are you going to be working 40 hours a week?

What are you going to be doing?

I'd love to.

By then, my kids would be old enough.

I've always been very career-oriented.

I love having that for myself.

And so, as of now, that's the plan.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah, I don't know, Laurie.

It just, it, because the ideal would be like you start working as a nurse and you're bringing in a great paycheck.

He's bringing in 115 and you guys cash flow this thing.

But it's going to be a while.

So that's, that's the problem.

But you called the Ramsey Show and we move at the speed of cash, even at business.

And you're moving at the speed of cash with your degree.

Yes.

And so I think you've set the precedent for that, that you can then say to him, Can we please do the same thing with this business?

And I will say, we kind of threw out some creative options, and you said we hadn't even thought of that.

That's the beauty about not living with debt.

When you don't have debt as an option, suddenly you have to think of other options outside the box.

It forces you to.

And so sit down and have some, yeah, some dreaming because it sounds like from a values standpoint, you guys are going against your values on a dream.

And that is a red flag for me.

Our scripture of the day comes from 2 Chronicles 20, 15.

This is what the Lord says to you.

Do not be afraid or discouraged because of this vast army, for the battle is not yours, but God's.

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.

Dorothy Bernard.

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.

Where you go?

Okay, I'm with it.

It took me a minute, but I got it.

Yeah, we'll go there.

Some of these quotes, you got to read it twice.

You got to read it twice to really let it sink in.

All All right, let's have Christina from Baltimore.

She is up next.

Hi, Christina.

Welcome to the show.

Hi.

Hello.

Hello.

How can we help today?

Yes, so I am calling because my husband,

he's not the best person in regards to finances, the most responsible person in regards to finances.

So we've kind of been having some a bit of trouble on his end

for

some years now,

actually.

And due to that,

I was the one basically holding majority of the weight.

He would contribute, but it was minimal.

So I was more so, you know, picking up the weight for

us and for the household.

And

it was under the pretense of when he kind of get things together and kind of get back on his feet.

Of course, things would be better, he would contribute more.

Um, but what ended up happening is, um, not too long ago, I actually ended up finding out that he received a nice sum of money.

Um,

and he decided to intentionally not tell me anything about it.

How much?

Oh my gosh,

it was about 20,000.

So,

good night.

Wow, yeah, that's an offense.

That hurts.

Yeah.

Very much.

Very, very much.

Like, I mean, I've been doing a lot.

And we have a son who first year of college.

I've been the sole

person who's been, you know, contributing to that and doing everything in regards to that with no help at all from my husband.

And

what does he do, Christina?

What's his job?

Or

what does he do when he is working?

Well,

he's a plumber.

And, you know, he also

does side jobs.

Like, he had his own business at some point.

So he also, you know, has that going on on the side.

But his main job is a plumber.

So

do you think that he's earning money and you just don't know what he's earning and he's just giving you bits and pieces?

Or is he just not working?

He's just not doing any hours.

He's definitely working.

He makes decent money.

And so it's not really the money that's the issue, it's his management of the money that's the issue.

Okay, so you have separate funds.

And what's he doing with it?

But you're saying it's mismanaged.

So

is he deeply in debt?

Is he spending everything?

For the most part, he pays

the majority of

what you can consider, like, or what he would more so consider, like, his bills, kind of his bills that he came into the marriage with.

So, of course, he pays those, whether it's debt or

this car note, things like that, which was another issue that we had because his car note is like way too high.

We agreed before marriage that he would get something else that would bring the car note down when we got married.

How long have you been married?

It's been

six years.

So you, I mean, what you're describing is not a combined financial situation.

When you say to him, you know, hey, I really, are you saying to him that you want, what are you saying to him?

Are you saying I'd like to combine our money together so we can, you know, be on one page?

Are you saying, hey, Leroy, you got to get busy?

Like, you got to, you know, what, what is, what's the conversation that's being had so we can understand?

Well, there's been many conversations, but

overall, the way things have been going is not at all what they were supposed to be.

Initially, we're supposed to be doing everything together,

even if it's kind of split in the bills half and half.

So we're supposed to be doing everything together.

And when you bring that to him, what does he say?

His thing is just

the way things are going for him financially, he just felt like he can't.

So he's doing what he feels like he only can do.

Like, and that's, that's his, you know, reasoning.

And I that doesn't have to do with, that doesn't have to do with.

So, if you said to him, hey, I want all of our money to go into one account.

There's a lot of confusion here.

You're saying one thing.

I'm not saying I have an expectation.

My only expectation is for our money to be together right now.

If you said that to him, what would he say?

Well, at this point, once I found out about the money that he received and did not tell me about, we got into an argument and he did not come home.

Okay.

Okay.

So this is not money.

This is not a money.

Yeah.

And it was his defense.

Well, our money's separate.

I got my money.

You got your money.

Did he just see as like complete just ownership of his own thing and didn't feel the need to tell you because of that?

That's basically what he's saying.

What he's saying.

Okay.

So, yeah.

So to Jade's point, Christina, this is a massive massive marital situation that you have two people in a marriage, and a marriage is a union.

It's one.

It's a united covenant that we make together.

And one person in the marriage is wanting to do their own thing.

And that's becoming in conflict with the value of marriage of what you were wanting out of a spouse.

And so,

yeah, I mean, I think in order to save this, this is a classic example.

People say money fights and money problems cause divorce.

That it's not really the money thing.

It exposes the brokenness within the marriage, which is what's happening to you guys.

A level of secrecy out of entitlement of his own thing over here.

You're over here wanting something completely different.

So your value and your outlook on how marriage and how we should function is completely separate.

And so I want that fixed.

Do you guys have kids together?

We do.

We do.

Okay.

So what I would do, I mean,

I would work so hard, which I know you are.

I can tell.

I can hear it in your voice.

You're exhausted.

You're exhausted.

Have you guys done marriage counseling or therapy together?

No, not exactly.

Okay.

So that would be my next step, Christina.

And if he's not willing to do that, I would say you do what you can on your end.

And then there gets to be a place where a spouse ends up not even really even being a spouse.

I mean, like, it ends up being...

Partner, just roommates.

Yeah, it becomes a roommate situation.

And um, and that's where people make really tough calls.

And I don't want that for you.

My prayer would be that there's redemption and that you guys can find a united front, but you may just need a third party.

Because even in the call, Christina, I'll be honest, I was trying to keep up with everything you were saying.

And it is, it's a, it's a little bit of a spider web situation feeling of what he's thinking about his, I don't know, I can't quite see clarity.

And sometimes, Christina, you know, you're living in this mess and in this fog and in this chaos and bringing in a professional third party to sit down with you guys and start really working through the issues.

Because I think what you're going to find pretty quickly is that it's not money issues.

This is being, this is stemming from a lot of other places in his life and in your life because things are stirring up in you as they should.

And stuff with him, and he's this like this level of control and protection he's wanting.

And I don't know, for the sake and the health of your marriage, that would be my next step.

And I wish always in these calls, Jade, that we can help further, but I think there's a lot of deeper brokenness in this that you guys are going to have to have a long timeline to

mend and to heal.

And I hope that for you.

You know, we always want that.

We never, we never want to.

We don't want people to split up.

And we certainly, you know, don't want them to split up over what's perceived to be just a money thing.

Yes, yes, that's right.

That's right.

And so, for both of you, my prayer is that you guys both want to fight for this marriage because it's not, it's going to continue to go down this road and it's just going to get worse and worse.

And so, hitting it head on both of you and and my prayer is that both of you want to work and find this unity but I would get I would go to marriage counseling that would be my next step Christina but I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I feel that weight for you and and I want that off I want you guys to have a clear path of peace and prosperity in your marriage well Jay thank you for a great show it was fun Rachel thanks to everyone in the booth and thank you all of you watching and listening to the show and remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.