Debt Won’t Fix What Discipline Can

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From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show where we talk about your life, your money, and everything in between.

I'm Jade Warshaw next to me, Rachel Cruz.

If you want to get in on the show today, it's really simple to get involved.

The numbers triple eight eight two five five two two five and we'll try our best to get you on the line.

Well, let's get to our first caller.

We've got John.

He's in Sarasota, Florida.

What's up, John?

Hey, how are you?

Doing good.

How are you?

I'm doing great.

Just trying to figure out if bankruptcy is the right aspect for me.

So a little bit of backstory is last year, we got hit with two hurricanes, Helene and Milton.

We lost 50% of our business, my wife and I's business, because of that for about two to three months.

And then two weeks later, we lost our house completely due to the fire

from Hurricane Milton.

And now we're in like $19,000 worth of credit card debt.

And I have them suing me currently.

And I'm trying to figure out what makes the most sense.

What did insurance pay for you?

Did you not receive anything from the house?

Did you not receive anything from those personal losses, business aside?

So that's a good question.

uh i'm still in the battle with fema at the current moment so still haven't really received all that much from them was that through through fema or not your your personal yeah just your home insurance yeah so the home insurance uh didn't cover much um because they they're saying that there was a hurricane going on even though uh the power line hit the house um due to the storm so they're kind of not really wanting to take ownership there um so we really haven't gotten anything there um And then so it's what was really at fault?

Was it the hurricane or was it the power line?

Is that the what's in question?

That's yeah, that's basically what was in question as far as the

insurance company, but it was due to the, you know, it's due to the hurricane because that's what took down the tree, basically, which took down the power line to hold the house.

What are you guys doing for work right now?

Yeah, so I'm a property manager

and then my wife owns a salon business.

Okay, how much do you guys bring in in a month after taxes?

Yeah, absolutely.

So I'm bringing in right around

$4,500.

Okay.

And then she's bringing in right around $4,000.

Also have two kids,

little ones.

So obviously they're, you know, I'm also paying for a nanny for them too.

Sure.

Okay.

And where are you guys living right now?

So we were couch serving for a while and then finally we were able to get into a rental.

okay good so we're also paying that yeah and what are you paying for that rental because with your family

role yeah absolutely it's about two five oh that's not as bad as i thought it might be i mean that's high but it's not as bad as i thought okay so right now the biggest thing that you're facing i mean obviously there's a lot tied up and what insurance or female or will not pay in the meantime you do have a place to lay your head and it's not a ridiculous it's not a ridiculous amount of your you know month-to-month take-home so now we've just got the debt to deal with you said 19 000 in credit card debt not total, $19,000, which I'm being sued for currently at $6,000.

What's the total?

Can you walk us through all of the debt that you have?

Yeah, absolutely.

So I have $20,000 in a business credit card that was used to start the business, $20,000

in personal credit card that was used a little bit to help the business, but somewhat personal.

And then another $19,000, obviously, which is basically right around $60,000.

And then I also have student debt that I haven't really included there.

So if we want to include the student debt, it would be a total of 90,000.

Yeah, that's important because that bill is coming due too, right?

For you.

Absolutely.

Okay, so

the good news is if,

and I'm not trying to make a joke, but the good news is the storm is passing.

Like the hard part has happened.

You've recovered somewhat.

Where, I mean, you're both working again.

You've got a place to live.

It's, I mean, it's terrible what's happened.

I mean, I can't express that enough.

You guys have dealt with a lot of loss, a lot of change in a very short period of time.

But the good news is everything's kind of starting to land.

And you guys, you know,

it could be a lot worse is what I'm saying.

So

I would really attack this the way I would tell anybody to with the debt snowball.

Yeah.

Obviously, the amount that you're being sued for, it's not a lump sum, right?

Is it broken into smaller pieces?

So they called the attorney and they're basically saying they want everything up front

And they're not really wanting to negotiate on anything because I've listened to Dave Ramsey a few times saying, Hey, let's try to negotiate it.

And you tried.

Well, it's usually when it goes into collections at that point.

Is any of it in collections?

I have the other 40,000 in credit card debt that

was going to be in collection or is in collections.

Yeah.

So I could negotiate those.

Yeah, let's do

negotiate those.

And yeah, the 19,000, I think you're beyond that point, it sounds like.

So you might have to pony up the cash.

So at this point,

this is the equation.

I mean, it doesn't change.

You've got to tighten up your budget.

I'm sure you have a budget, correct?

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

So, I mean, that's on bare bones.

But then the other side of this is now that you do have a nanny for the kids, you and your wife have got to be working like crazy people.

And it's almost the exact

opposite of what you want to do.

Right now, you've been through a lot.

You probably want to rest.

You probably feel like you owe it to yourself to just like take a breather, right?

But the truth is you've got this debt breathing down your neck.

And at least until you can get out of this 19,000 and clear that and, you know, settle this other 40,000 for half, you know,

and then you can kind of take a breather.

And then it's like, okay, now we, we're safe.

And now we can start to tackle that student loan debt

once you've taken care of those other crazy ones that are.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And cut everything up, John.

Be done.

Be done with the credit card game.

I mean, seriously.

I've already thrown everything away.

I mean,

okay, I'm so glad.

I'm so glad because this is it.

I'm like, it's just like another example to the world.

Like, this is the mess people get in.

You know what I mean?

And John, you're pretty normal in that way.

Like, we get caught, this is, this is the show we're on.

This is how

normal it is.

That's not from the hurricane.

It's not from the storm.

Right.

It's you having to react to the lifestyle you had before and the risk that you had created probably unbeknownst to you.

Right.

You know, before all this even happened.

Yep, exactly.

So, yeah, John, yeah, it would not be, yeah, I would not say you're in a bankruptcy, you know, situation,

but you guys have, gosh, a solid four years probably down this track of saying

we got to start cleaning this up.

And so, again, any savings, any non-retirement that you have, cash everything out, John, and put towards this if you guys have it.

And be, you know, and be aware of your expenses even from a business perspective, you know, from like, yeah, I don't know.

There's just something that where can you cut to save

Since you, I think you are running your business from a property management standpoint, where can you find some margin to throw at your personal

finances here in the next year or two to kind of get a jumpstart as well?

You know, Rachel, I feel lately I've been hearing more calls about bankruptcy.

Should I consider bankruptcy?

I'm in this mess.

Should I do bankruptcy?

You know, I know you personally, that, I mean, that's where your story with Dave starts.

You know, I think of bankruptcy as you're losing control.

Like, you're going to have to sacrifice something.

You're going to have to pay a certain amount of this debt.

But when you're in bankruptcy, then the courts are deciding, right?

Yes.

You've lost all control of your financial, yeah, your financial world.

You don't get to make the decisions.

Versus if you can just get on a plan, Ramsey plan, you can do a lot of the same things that bankruptcy would do, which is make you pay these things off, make you prioritize, but at least you have the control back.

That's right.

It's not with some hands of some judge somewhere, right, doing it all, which we we don't want.

So that's great.

It's a great point.

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All right, let's head back to the phone lines.

We've got Jay, who's in Detroit, Michigan.

Jay, you're on the line.

Hi there.

How you doing, Eddie?

We're doing good.

How can we help?

So my major question today is going to be,

should my husband and I go about renting out our house with the potential for

not having the best tenants, especially because we would be asking a pretty high rent for what it is.

Or if we should try to sell the house, which we would end up bringing money to the table to sell the house.

And we don't have that money right now.

So we would either have to take a loan out for it or I don't even know.

So yeah, that's what you're trying to accomplish.

Is this your primary home or a second home?

It's our primary house.

So we

we just are so financially burdened.

You know, we're 23 and 24, and we got this house, and we kind of jumped the gun, and I took control of the finances in terms of them being like, no, we can handle it.

We can do this.

What's your income every month, and how much is the mortgage?

So our total income between, like combined between the two of us, is about $4,400 of take-home.

But I Uber for a living, so I'll have to pay taxes at the end of the year.

I'm going to research what I can write off, of course, and go about that way.

But

he is at a point where

he is an apartment maintenance man and he gets a discount, and he wants to go move into one of their apartments.

So that's what we plan on doing.

We just don't really know what how much is your mortgage payment a month?

The mortgage payment is $13.85.

Okay.

So what else is going on?

Because that's not, I've seen, that's not bad.

So we, no, it is not bad, but we

kind of bringing back a couple months

around

November, I took some time off of work.

He thought he could handle it.

I took about three weeks off.

I was in between jobs.

I was trying to get a new job, but we also took a pretty big pay cut

because I quit that job where I was making $55 and I ended up landing a job.

But then once I landed a job come December, he decided to join the Marines

and

he did not end up going all the way through.

He got through some boot camp and he was supposed to get the basic allowance for housing, which is where

if you have a wife or children, they'll send money home.

They did not send over his paperwork for that.

So that whole time while he was gone, I was just struggling to pay because I had like just then found a job and it was a pay cut.

So you guys got behind?

Is that dead?

Is that credit card debt?

Yeah, we got really behind.

Yeah, we we've got about $2,500 of credit card debt, which isn't a crazy amount.

But then the second week of him being gone, both of our vehicles broke down.

And one of them is still, we just haven't even fixed it.

We're thinking about just junking it for like $500.

Okay.

But the other one we ended up preparing, but that was after he got back.

So so where are you now?

Give us a picture of what's happened now.

It's $2,500 in credit card debt.

What other debt do you guys have?

So, our car payment is $557

for the new vehicle that we got.

Oh, so you got a new vehicle.

How much did you spend on the new vehicle?

We didn't put any money down, which is kind of also what we're doing.

I understand, but what do you owe on it?

We owe.

Where is it?

I wrote it down.

I want to say it was $32,994.

Okay.

Is there anything else that's large that we should know about briefly?

Insurance for all three vehicles is $5.37

because I Uber, my gas expenses for the month are about $1,100.

So for bare minimum expenses, this is including food.

So this has house car payment, or I'm sorry, yeah, house car payment insurance, DTE, which is a rough DTE gas.

Gas, phone bills.

Just your basic budget.

What is it?

Food.

Basic budget is $42.81.

Okay.

So you're to the wires, what you're saying.

There's nothing left extra.

You don't feel like you have breathing room, no margin.

A big piece of this is the car.

So, I mean, you do have three vehicles.

Obviously, one of them is not running right now.

Two of them now.

Two of them aren't running.

So what does it cost to get both of your older are they paid for, by the way?

The two that aren't running?

Both of the older cars.

Yep, both of the older cars Okay, what could you get for both of them?

One's going to be a junker, you said.

What could you sell the other one for?

Uh, the other one, depending, we're gonna, there's a car shop across the street, so we plan on taking it over there.

That one, it's a 2014 Honda Civic.

Um, the only problem is he's kind of trashed it, you know.

Just tell us what you think you could get for it if you sold them

for like pure drivability, maybe like $2,500 for the Civic, and then the other one.

But you could fix it for how much?

I don't know yet.

We have to take it to the mechanics, but this is the second time that it's broke down in a year now.

So I'm going to get an Here's the thing.

I'm going to give you a quick, quick overview.

Because

you're meandering a lot, which makes me think that you want to make excuses.

And maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like a lot of times when you're giving me all the, all the, all the, it's like, let's just cut it and dry it and say what it really is.

Okay.

For the two vehicles, your homework getting off of here is find out what you can sell them for private sale.

Then find out what it would take to fix them.

And if you do have an older vehicle, yeah, you might, it's older, so you might have to have repairs on it, but it doesn't mean that it's a bad car.

It just means that you have to do maintenance and repair on it somehow.

And see how much you can sell the $32,000

car.

Because I might...

Maybe the dealership said I would owe on that because I Uber, I already have, I got it five months ago and I have a lot of money.

I don't care what the dealership said.

I would look on Kelly Blue Book.

Look on Kelly Blue Book.

And you're going to always get a better deal when you go private sale.

Most always.

Okay.

From selling the car or buying the car, because you can negotiate more with a private party if you're buying, and you're going to get more bang for your buck when you're selling.

So, Kelly Blue Book It.

Don't listen to dealership.

Yeah, and I tend to think, I don't know, but I'm looking at this.

And for where you guys are right now, I'm probably inclined for you to sell the 32,000 one and fix the two that you already have that are paid for.

Because we would have told you to do the same thing anyway.

Sell the old one and get a junker.

well you already have the two paid for junkers so you're already there and i just want to encourage you um it sounds like you guys i mean you're early in your marriage it sounds like you're trying to get on the same page and it's been a battle and it's been a struggle i want you guys to sit down tonight and look at the facts as they are today Don't go to the past.

Don't spend a lot of time talking about what we did before, but look at it today and say, here's where we are and talk more about the future.

I want you guys to talk about where you want to be at the end of the year.

And then I want you to talk about where you want to be at the end of next year and work backwards on a way to get there.

Because I feel like a lot has happened that's kind of keeping you lost in those, lost in the sauce.

Yeah, and Jay, and you guys run the numbers because I do want to just tell you, from a normal circumstances, your $1,200 mortgage is not the problem.

No.

So, because we always, we tell people, and we're conservative when it comes to the housing item in the budget of 25% of your income.

And you're right, you're right on it.

like you are exactly where we would say percentage wise to be so you from a percentage looking at your income you're exactly where you should be and but let me say this with the caveat you guys are young you said we kind of like rushed into this purchase and if the whole thing is overwhelming jay and you guys continue to feel paralyzed by this and you're just like oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh and you can make some money with some equity i don't know what the what the turn would be and you're like listen we can get out of it i'm gonna make this up jay we can get out of this and we can make 15 grand in equity and we're going to go rent for two to three years, get our feet under us, and then we're going to make a different decision with housing.

You guys can do that.

But if you're, are you underwater on the house?

Is that what you said at the very beginning of the call?

Yeah, so we bought last year, you know, in a seller's market.

And so we've already talked to our real estate agent.

And I've thought about even doing private sale, but our house just hasn't appreciated in value.

Okay.

So I would say we would be bringing money.

Does it cost a lot to maintain?

No, I mean, the house is pretty simple.

We do have some repairs that we have to do, but yeah, that's fine.

Okay, yeah.

So, Jay, if I were you guys, stay in the house.

I would not take the financial hit with losing money on a home.

A car, I might.

If you're going to be underwater, five grand, go take a personal loan for five grand.

Drive your two beaters.

And I'd rather have $5,000 in car debt than $32,000.

So it's just a reminder, you guys, when your car breaks down, you don't have to go to the dealership and buy a $32,000 car, right?

Even if you were going into debt for a car, which you shouldn't shouldn't do, God forbid you go get $10,000.

Can you get a dollar?

Thank you, Rachel.

Man, oh man.

So thank you guys.

Think, think, through this.

And cars are just like one of these things we just go and buy, and we don't think about it.

But man, that's half of their annual income.

More than half.

Don't do that, Jay.

Sell the car.

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Very, very good.

All right, let's go to Eric.

He is local, Nashville, Tennessee.

Hey, Eric.

Hey, guys.

Thank you for thank you so much for having us.

Yeah, you're welcome.

Us?

Is there someone else on the line?

Oh, my wife's nearby.

Ah, Eric.

I love it.

Tell her we said hi.

How can we hope to

say hi?

Just

quick, super quick question.

So we are planning an international trip next year.

We are committed to all of the things that y'all teach.

This includes not having credit cards, period.

So we are going to do that.

No credit cards for that trip.

Now the thing that our trip trip advisor person is giving us is they are they're coming back to us us saying, hey, well, what happens if you go there with just a debit card and

your debit card gets hacked?

That's a particular fear they're throwing at us.

And I was just curious, mechanically, what would y'all recommend?

Again, we are not going with a credit card, so we're not even touching that.

But what would y'all recommend if

the fear they're throwing at us is what happens if

it gets hacked?

Well, I mean, I can say with our kids, we're bringing a couple sons.

What we're solving for, I mean, the basis of what we're solving for is if something should happen, you need money.

That's really what they're saying, right?

Is if somebody steals all your money here, you need to have money elsewhere in order to cover it in the meantime.

And so that's all it is.

So if you say, hey, I'm not using...

credit cards, I'm just going to have a pile of money in my account.

And I know

if something should happen with my debit card, and I'll get to this in a minute, let's just say something happens and it takes 24 hours for that money to come back and be replaced, then I have an emergency fund and I have some savings that I also can have access to.

And

that's all I need.

Yeah, because what other accounts do you guys have besides your checking?

Oh, what accounts do we have?

Checking me?

Do we have a savings?

We have savings.

We have a couple things.

Okay, so like we have

a high-yield account.

We have a debit card, yeah.

Yeah, we have a high-yield savings account with fair wins, and we have a fair wins debit card with that account.

So, I would have, you know, that

you know, you would have one or two, okay, three different accounts that you can use a different debit card for, potentially, yes, exactly.

If you're, if you're worried about that, um, which I guess is fair, yeah, and but I would give your bank a heads up because we were we ran into an issue, not it was it, it was in Florida, it wasn't even international, and the bank, like it was like this whole like limit thing, it was this whole thing we hadn't, we hadn't told the bank, and so our card did.

It took us like 45 minutes to get on the phone with the bank and figure it all out, which was annoying.

It's super annoying.

But it's for your protection.

They're like, hey, somebody's spending a lot of money in another area that's not typical for you.

So, yeah, they throw the flag on that.

So, so just I would contact your bank.

And then, Eric, the other thing to look out for, it depends on your bank and account, but we do get ding sometimes with international fees.

So, like, if you swipe

with certain merchants or whatever,

you know, you, I know when we travel, we've like to Mexico or something, we've like come back into the Every Dollar app and it's like $2.99 for a fee.

You know what I mean?

Like a fee randomly.

Oh, yeah.

So just be aware of that.

That's the other thing to think about.

Yes, they do.

They get you.

I think the other part of this question that he wasn't saying, but I do think that a lot of people think, Rachel, is that debit cards don't have the same protections as a credit card.

So let's say you have fraud on your account.

The big fear is like, oh my gosh, if you have fraud, then a credit card company is going to give you the money back instantly.

But the truth is, a debit card company will give you, if it's a debit card, you'll get the money back instantly as well and and you can check uh the fine print if you look at your visa debit card it does have the same protections um but you do need to report it you know within i think it's 48 hours or 24 hours you have to report it and i can tell you i have never had um a problem with that it's always been i call and i say hey this looks like fraud and they say okay and they'll they'll give you the money back and ask questions later yeah so well and honestly too to your point about the the protection, the way banks work today, I feel like, or at least our bank, they are way more on top of it than they were five years ago.

I feel like I get texts a lot of like to say, why did this transaction sometimes scam?

So you got to make sure it's your actual bank.

But our bank, I don't know, I feel like they do a really good job at it.

They do.

Very good question.

All right.

Another local call.

We've got Annette in Nashville, Tennessee.

What's up, Annette?

How can we help?

Hi.

Hello, Annette.

How can we help?

Oh, I'm so sorry.

I didn't hear you say that.

Oh, you're great.

You're great.

My husband was injured at work, and he received a $100,000 cash

settlement, and it was through Workman's Comp, and we had to take the company.

Anyways, we had to file bankruptcy because they wouldn't pay.

Workman's Comp wouldn't pay, so we did have to go to court, and we were successful.

Now,

my question to you is, do we take that $400,000 and take it to the bankruptcy court and pay off as much as we can, take half and put the other half in the bank and start saving for our future?

What would your recommendation be?

How much is left

in the house?

I have $150,000.

Okay, left to pay.

Yes.

Okay.

And we have to pay the most back because we have $250,000 equity in our home.

We, you know, bought it cheap and fixed it up and then it skyrocketed.

And so we're paying back everything, but right now we're paying $140 to $1,500 a week.

So everything that my husband makes goes straight to bankruptcy every week.

Oh, gosh.

Yes, I would.

I would catch up on this immediately.

So, yeah, I would throw it there because you want all this, you want all of this cleaned up in that to be able then to

move forward and think about the future, like what you're saying.

When you try to do 18 different things, you're not going to solve for peace doing that because you're still going to have this bankruptcy looming.

So, as soon as you can get that in the rearview mirror, as soon as possible,

the better off this is going to be.

So,

you take the full amount and put it on there.

Yes, I would.

Yeah, for sure.

Are you working too, Annette?

I am working, but at the time that he got injured, I had just opened my own business.

So, I'm at three years in my own business, and I'm doing okay, but I don't, you know, I only pay myself not a lot.

What's not a lot?

I'm four to $500 a week.

So it's not, I make sure all my bills are paid and I'm building the business and it's coming along.

But, you know, what kind of business is it?

Fitness.

I open the fitness gym.

Okay.

Interesting.

Okay.

I'm glad that the business is growing.

I just wonder, is there, you know, when it comes to these equations, I said this earlier today, it's good that you've got this chunk of money in, but it's almost like pretend that chunk of money hadn't come.

What would you guys have been doing to pay off this $150?

and you would have been getting busy out there so would your husband work four jobs right i work four jobs right now i work i run this business uh-huh and i took teach teach 25 classes a week and then i teach outside of this and i'm also a dj as well and all of that runs in the 400 a week

No, that's just from my business.

So that's on top of all the other.

So I'm still doing all those.

What's the other stuff bringing you?

Well, you know, DJing is like here and there.

So I would say that's about $5,000 a year.

And then the other brings in $400 a month, $400 to $600 a month, the other classes.

Okay.

I just at other places.

I just wonder if you can be putting your time somewhere where it's a little bit more valuable.

Yeah.

From a money perspective.

100%.

Yeah.

So I'd probably look at some priorities in that from the time management perspective of how many hours you're doing all of this.

That's a lot.

And yeah, where you could be, I don't know, working at Target.

I don't know, like, run some numbers just to be like, if I put in this amount of money, this amount of time

versus what if I was making 30 hours, you know, $30 an hour somewhere else, or I don't know.

So just kind of run some numbers.

Yep, exactly.

That's a lot.

You're doing a lot, Annette.

And don't get me, don't hear us wrong.

We love your dream of having a gym.

You're in it now.

It's just maybe there's a way to reallocate that time.

Maybe you hire someone to teach some of the classes and give them a cut of it and figure it out like that so you have more of your time back.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all.

I don't understand this, John.

Why don't people want to take care of their family?

They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys.

I didn't even think about it.

And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them.

Me too.

They don't know what to do next.

Me too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here.

And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow.

She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly these are the two options.

And turn care of your dadgum family, man.

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Yeah.

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Well, if you're a listener to the Ramsey Show, we really appreciate you.

We're glad you're here.

Matter of fact, you're the reason that we have jobs because without you, there would be no show.

So we're grateful to you.

and if you like the show, the biggest thing we could ask you to do is just share it, and there's a lot of ways you could do that.

Um, maybe there's a clip that you like to share, um, and you could do that.

Maybe there's you know, you slide into somebody's DMs and you put it in there.

There used to be a playlist, do we still have the uh Ramsey playlist that we can share?

We do, it's still out there on YouTube.

All right, so if you go on YouTube, there's the Ramsey 101 playlist that you can share, and it's a great way to share it because it kind of curates the videos for you so that if somebody's kind of getting into the Ramsey verse for the first first time they're getting the information in the proper way.

So keep sharing the show.

It helps us out.

All right, let's go to Edna, Lexington, Kentucky.

Hey, Edna, welcome to the show.

Thanks so much for taking my call.

You bet.

How can we help today?

Well, so I guess I need marriage advice and financial advice.

So my husband and I have actually been together for over 10 years,

but I finally married him last June not this past June but a year ago good for you guys it's great

yeah I'm still a chicken and I haven't combined finances so I'm sure I guess I said about that

but we we just come from completely different worlds I was raised Amish so you know we had our we raised our own meat we grew our own vegetables we had milk cowls all the things and he grew up very much

cereal microwave dinners going out to eat all that so just financially, we're not in a grant really.

And I know that should have been taken care of before we got married.

But I have recently been trying to get him involved in the Dave Ramsey programs and the baby steps.

And even like I bought him an

edition of the Total Money Makeover, and I don't even think he's opened it.

I mentioned going through the

Peace University and he's like, all right, so we're going to spend money to save money.

and I was like, Yeah,

so I today purchased the Ever Dollar Premium and I sent him an invitation to it.

But I guess I just kind of after I sent it, I'm like, Maybe I should get some advice on how to have that conversation.

Yeah, my number one question is: the way you guys explained your differences growing up makes total sense.

It was like in a food category, like I milked a cat, you know, I milked cows.

You're like, I milk a cow, he goes to the store.

Um, so from a financial perspective, what are the big differences?

What are you bumping up against?

He thinks if you can finance it, you can afford it.

Okay.

I think if you don't have cash, you can't afford it.

Okay.

Okay.

So, that's big.

Which I do owe all my house.

I have no debt, and he doesn't now.

That was one thing that, you know, I was like, you're paying your truck off.

We're getting out of this before we get married.

So, between us, we have no consumer debt.

But when we met, he had a very little equity in his house

and owed money on his truck.

Yeah, that was 10 years ago.

So what's he doing now?

Financially?

We own a tire and service center together.

And we've had a lot of life happen.

Okay, so what is he?

So besides debt,

is he in debt currently?

No, he's out of debt other than our house.

I own a house and we just recently bought a farm.

Okay.

And is he suggesting you go into debt for something else right now?

No, but like he won't, like, I'm all about doubling up payments.

And let's, you know, get this, you know, we had, he has no savings and he's 20 years older than me.

So he has no savings.

I am the only one that has savings.

How much do you have?

And

probably 35,000.

Yeah, I have.

So here's the tough part.

You said earlier in the call, I feel like I heard you say, obviously you've been together 10 years, married one, and you haven't combined finances yet.

And I thought you were sounding like you didn't really want to combine finances.

Well,

I do, but I'm scared to.

But you're scared too, and yet we're having conversations as though we're combining finances.

So it's almost like, I wonder if that's feeding into how you're talking about it.

versus it being more of I want us to be together on the same page.

I want us to finally be one.

We've been together for 10 years.

I just wonder if it's a shift in how you're talking about it.

Talk about the combination as a way to become one first

instead of as a way to pay off debt, pay off the mortgage, save money, like that sort of a thing.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Yes.

So talk about it from an intimacy standpoint first.

I'm sorry, pardon me.

I was saying, talk about it from an intimacy standpoint first.

And then as that conversation continues to happen, then we can start to see the advantages from a numbers perspective.

Yeah, for sure.

Because I think possibly the problem

thus far with the communication has been, to Jade's point, situational.

And, you know, with purchasing, or I want to do a budget and you're not signing into the app.

I want you to read this book.

You're not reading this book.

It's more about

action, right?

If that makes sense, versus starting more with you, Edna, of like, okay,

why do I feel fearful?

Why am I hesitant?

What do I want?

What do I like?

Actually, talking about more what's going on with you and bringing you to the table and saying, hey, listen, I love you.

Obviously, we were together for 10 years.

We are married now.

And my hope and prayer, I don't know, I'm making this up.

This may not be the case for you, is that I always saw the future with my husband, that we would be one and that we could trust each other.

We'd be on the same page.

We'd be on the same team as we walk this road of life.

Like we are hand in hand, and you know, you're always going to have your personality, I'm going to have mine.

So, Edna, you may always be a little bit more nerdy and always be more conservative.

He may be a little bit more of a spender, more of a free spirit, but that, but the personality differences isn't changing the direction of where we're going.

And that's that's the safety I want in a husband.

I want to know that we are united on these big topics of raising kids and money and spiritual, our spiritual lives.

Like, you know, all of this, if we're on the same page,

that gives me security, right?

You're telling him this, but I fear that because you don't seem interested in a topic that I'm really nervous about, I don't feel like you're listening to me, right?

Like, you make it more of a marriage issue.

It's coming out as money through the lane of money.

But to your point, it's not a money issue.

You guys are just missing each other completely, or he's just a jerk and doesn't really care what you think, Edna, which hopefully you didn't marry him.

That's him.

No, so I think he,

yeah, so he cares for you, right?

So I would go about it more from you.

And this tip, John, John Delonee said this years ago, and I just love it.

He's like, whenever you go into any level of conflict, you never use the word you.

You're doing this.

You're not reading the book.

You're not signing up for the app.

It's all about you, Edna.

You have to enter that conversation about you.

And I would tell him before, too, like,

I wouldn't make this a casual thing.

I think you've kind of been casual about it, but I would say, hey, tonight, can we have, can we have like a big conversation about money because i and kind of prep him of like hey i just have some things i want to share with you and tell him it's about money so it's not so secretive if he's like oh god what are you going to tell me you know but but actually have a very intentional sit down together um and i and i just wonder if he's a good man you know if he starts to actually see okay gosh she is really worried about this and you know he may not get on board that night 100 but at least he can have a level of empathy to enter in with you in this and you guys can start this journey together slowly but you can start heading in the right direction where it's it's less about throwing a book at them you know and more about what's happening with you Edna I agree what you said Rachel is exactly right I think a lot of times and not just with Edna's case but in general we we we want something from our spouse and we start with these actions of like it's almost like giving them hints of what we want them to do versus like you said sitting down having the conversation that way it's all laid out on the table and then from that point on anything that we do, we can link it back to that conversation.

Say, remember when we talked about this?

Yep.

Yep.

Now, now I can say, I found this FPU class or I found this book.

And you've got that conversation to kind of link it back or tether it back to.

So it's not just, because a lot of times

we could be in one mental space, our spouse is in another, and they're just going on about their life.

And next thing, you know, you mentioned something about paying off the house.

And they're like, what?

Yeah.

She's like, I'm doubling up payments.

And he's like, golly, Ed, what's happening?

Yeah, where'd this come from?

Yeah, right.

right, right.

So

give him some of that grace, too, in it.

But I think getting on the same page is going to be your number one.

And then everything else.

But the good thing is, too, Edna, in your case, you know, it's not like he's racking up all this credit card debt and spending all this, you know, spending stuff he doesn't have.

Like, it sounds like, even from an action standpoint, he's in the middle.

It's just getting on the same page mindset-wise, and it's going to be key for you guys.

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From the Ramsey Network, you're listening to The Ramsey Show.

We're talking about your life and your money all day long.

I've got Rachel Cruz here next to me.

I'm Jade Warshaw.

Let's get right into the phone lines where we've got Wendy from Atlanta, Georgia.

Hey, Wendy, how can we help today?

Hi, Jade.

Thanks so much for taking my call.

We have a 15-year-old daughter, and she is a social media influencer.

We've made her older siblings buy their own cars, and they probably had

six to seven thousand dollars to buy a car when it was time.

But obviously, her situation is going to be much different.

And we aren't necessarily in agreement as to

my husband and I, as to how much money we should allow her to spend on her car.

What is she earning?

This is crazy.

It is crazy.

Her manager says that in the next year, she'll make $100,000.

Currently, she has a fully funded Roth IRA.

She has

$32,000 in a brokerage, and she's averaging about $8,000 to $10,000 a month right now.

Wow.

So what does she want to spend on a car?

To get what she wants, she'd want to spend around $50,000.

Wow.

Okay, I can understand your conundrum.

Can I just ask honestly, is that more expensive than your car?

Yes.

Wow.

This is something.

Yeah.

Okay.

Oh, my gosh.

This is juicy.

And

this is how I would feel as a mom.

And I don't have a 15-year-old.

Let me just say that.

Neither do I.

I have a 10-year-old.

So so i take this with a grain of salt i always hate giving parenting advice when there's

not parenting i won't even say this is advice this is like what just came up in me wendy as a mom we'll just be we'll just be girlfriends just chatting i like that what rose up in me is less about the dollar amount

and more about what i am

um

what am i what am i helping her as a mom see that is important in life and she's in an industry which i'm not mad about i'll link a dresser too i'm not mad at the influencing world i'm really not buy half my clothes as I see someone.

You're also a lot older and you've had a lot more maturity to grow over time.

It can be,

it's like the, it can be a very vain,

self-inward-looking type industry in general.

I'm not saying that's your daughter.

I'm just saying.

The industry.

The industry in general, right?

Hollywood has an industry.

Influencers has like everything has pros and cons.

So, as a 15-year-old, what I want to facilitate in her

is that

our stuff cannot own us.

And that's from a debt perspective, but it's also from an identity contentment perspective.

Our stuff is not going to make us who we are.

And the moment we live in a world where our stuff starts to define us, and if you took all the stuff away, if you took the hair extensions and the eyelashes and the cars and the clothes, who am I?

Who am I?

Take everything away.

Who am I?

So like I would be pushing a message so hard, Wendy, to her of this is incredible, number one, what she's doing.

Like, like her tenacity to go out and do stuff.

And she, I mean, it's amazing.

It's absolutely incredible.

So, I don't want to squash this entrepreneurial side of her, but there's just a lot of caution and flags that this is going to be the first big purchase that she makes that could go take her down a down a road to say,

How much does stuff influence who I am as a person?

And to have the restraint to say, I want this $50,000 brand new car,

but also I'm going to understand that I am 16 years old.

I'm going to have a level of common sense with my life, and I don't need a $50,000 car at 16.

And it would show a lot of maturity and a lot of confidence as a mom to her if she was like, you know what, mom, I get it.

Like, I want a $50,000 car.

What does she want?

Is it like a, I don't even know what that would be.

A Jeep Wrangler.

A Wrangler.

Okay.

It's

that what if we went and bought a used

Jeep, right?

Like go and buy a used version.

Like, what does that do to your identity?

Does that make sense?

Like, I'm trying to, I'm trying to kind of poke on the triggers of what I don't want to be magnified for her as an adult in her 20s.

So, like, how do you make a purchase that that doesn't influence it?

I think what you, Rachel, I think you're right, spot on on that.

I also think there's part of it, and again,

there's part of this that's hard to put into words.

There's, there's also part of it where, um, it's just about uh building a maturity.

You said building a maturity level, but it's almost like her, her following, right?

She didn't immediately start with a million followers.

She had to work to build that up.

And as you go through those stages, your character also builds to be able to hold it a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more, right?

And so I think the same can be true from a financial perspective, right?

With large purchases.

With large purchases, when you're gifted large amounts, there also has to be a part of your personality that can carry that.

Because here's the thing: she's going to, if she does a $50,000 car, there's a lot that's going to come with that.

There's going to be expectations from her friends.

There's going to be things that she feels like now I have to be here, or I'm projecting this to the world.

Now I have to be here.

It's almost like.

It's almost, and again, I don't have kids this age, but it's almost like when I was in eighth grade and I wanted to start wearing makeup, I didn't have a bad reason for wanting to do that.

I just wanted to improve my,

way I looked as a eighth grader.

But my mom saw ahead and was like, hey, you're just not there yet.

Like you bringing makeup is going to bring a different type of attention.

It's going to bring more things.

Do you know what I'm saying?

But

there's more that goes along with these things than

meets the eye.

So I'm with you on not doing a $50,000 car, but I think it's fair for her to have more than a $6,000 or $7,000 car to reflect to reflect the work she's done.

100%.

Yeah.

So maybe it looks more like,

I don't know, what's reasonable for a 16 year old?

18 or 20.

Yeah.

What's up?

Yeah.

20, 25.

I don't know.

It's reasonable for a 16-year-old that has the cash too, like, which is incredible.

And she's buying her own car.

So like, I want to reward part of that in her.

But I think for a teenage girl and that whole world and all of it, I'm like, I just want to.

where I can steer the motivation in a healthy way so that that is what's magnified as she gets older versus just being like, oh my gosh, you can afford, you know, like you can afford it.

So just get it.

And I, Wendy, to a degree, I have restraints on myself.

I'm such a spender.

I love clothes.

I'm such a spender where I'm like, I probably could go out and get more, but I'm like, for my own dignity and my own sake, like and my own contentment, I have to say no to myself sometimes, even though I can financially afford things sometimes that I'm like, I don't, does that make sense?

Like, there's something there for her at 15 that I just want to protect.

I agree.

And I'm looking at our audience out here and I'm like, everyone agrees.

Are we on point?

Are we saying things that make points or are you like no you've missed it should she get a $50,000 car at 16 is there any hands up all right okay we okay we got a good we got a good and it's mostly adults out there by the way what about like twenty five thousand I feel like could is that still too high oh we're getting some down oh we're getting some lower 20

20 all right

okay so you guys think she should stick to the six to the seven to ten thousand dollar range okay this is like a price for race we're getting mixed reviews

all right

I'm going to give her some money to spend.

I'd be okay with 2025.

Honestly, I would.

Okay, and let me say this too, Wendy.

It's got to be in cash.

And you said her manager said she could be making $100,000.

That's not money in the bank.

That's good point.

So it needs to be reasonable with what she has now.

And I don't know what percent, I don't know how much money she has right now in that account.

Yeah, that's true.

Wendy, we just monologued.

I apologize.

But it also reflects our teaching, which is even at $100,050,000, that would be too much at this point.

She'd be right at the line.

So even from a rule of thumb perspective, not just from a, I don't know, quote, kind of like morality.

Yes.

Good call.

Thank you for the call, Wendy.

I get it.

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Thanks for listening and being with with us on the show today.

We're going to go straight to the phone lines where we have Shana in Portland, Oregon.

Hi, Shana.

How can we help you?

Hi, Shane.

Hi, Angel.

Hello.

Hi, how are you guys?

We're good.

How can we help you?

Awesome.

Well, I'm a single mom by choice.

I will soon be an empty nester as my son heads to college this fall.

So that focuses me on retirement.

And my question is, can you help me with a goal on how much to pay on my house between now and retirement since it's my big focus area and piece to prepare to be ready?

So how much do you have remaining on your mortgage?

My mortgage has $370,000 remaining.

Okay.

And what's your income?

It's in the mid-six figures.

So

$150

ish, yeah.

Okay.

And like the big, what I'm getting to without asking a bunch of questions, what I'm getting to is figuring out your margin every month because that's really what's going to speak to how quickly you can do this.

So are you currently putting away 15%,

investing 15%?

Yeah, I'm clearly on baby step six with a margin right now of about $11 to $1,200 a month.

Okay.

So what I would do if I were in your shoes is I would look on the calculator, like how quickly can I pay off my debt calculator.

You can find that that on ramseysolutions.com and basically say okay it's your choice right because we always say that at this point it's all about intentionality you don't necessarily have to be intense but it just sounds like you want to know the exact numbers and know the game plan so you can decide okay am i putting 600 extra or am i putting 800 extra and how does that affect how quickly i get this done and then it's really up to you how that looks like and I mean that can also be very seasonal I know for Sam and I there's some seasons where we're like, oh, we're going crazy and all the money's going to the mortgage.

Then there's times where we're like,

I'm just going on vacation.

Like,

I don't, I'm not hitting it like this today.

And you get to make that choice.

The point is that you're consistently paying more than just your, you know, your normal monthly amount.

How old are you?

I'm 55.

55.

When do you want to retire?

Do you know?

Do you have an age?

60.

At 60.

Okay.

So five years.

So that's not going to, I mean, yeah, if you put

what is that, six?

Yeah.

I'm just thinking, if you put a thousand bucks extra a month, right?

And being able to kind of extrapolate that and say, okay, it's not going to make probably a massive dent in 370.

That's right.

How much do you have in retirement right now?

Retirement

about 1.5, targeting 2.5 by the time I hit 60.

Okay, that's absolutely good to know.

Yeah, that's wonderful.

Yeah, I guess my question is because you can use some of that.

I mean, be aggressive with your income now,

but also while still funding that 15%.

And then once you get to retirements, you can use some of this to pay it down.

I mean, yeah, if you made it a point to pay off half between now, you know, between now and then and get it down to, I don't know, 150, and then you said, and I plan on by then taking 150 of the 2.5 million and finishing it off I think that'd be just fine

absolutely and so I guess that would be my question is I because I can work the numbers but it's that energy to put in extra work or take it on a second job

to pay down more and so what would you guys do I'd take the tax hit on the back end of those retirement funds if I do take it out to pay off half of the house well half of the mortgage well you would wait till

because how many how what percentage of the 2.5 will be in a Roth

versus traditional?

It's all traditional.

Okay, that's that's the yeah, you're gonna have to pay the tax burden on that then, of course.

Right.

Um

well, yeah, so all that to say, Shauna, I think let me say this.

Overall, looking at your numbers, you're going to be fine.

Even if you took, you know,

I don't know,

100 and I don't know, by the time you get to retirement, 200 out.

That's right.

And paid off the house, but you had to pay taxes, all of it, your house is paid for, you're good.

And you'll be fine into retirement, even with what's left.

So either way, you're fine.

I think the question would be for you:

what do you want?

Like, do you want to work an extra job to put towards the house so that you don't have to take out as much at retirement or what?

Because either way, you're going to be fine.

I think that's more of a personal question of

what, what do you want to do with the next five years?

I mean, you're going to be an empty nester, you said.

And remember this too, your income should continue to go up.

So hopefully you could put $1,500 away with some margin in the next, you know, two years.

So remember that, too, as part of the equation, you'll be able to pay off more than what you think you will be today.

And can you start with a Roth IRA instead of continuing to contribute to traditional funds?

Can we start building over there instead of continuing this route?

Absolutely.

But then it just creates a little nut.

It reduces cash flow up front for the house.

So that was kind of my back end.

end.

If you did an additional Roth IRA is what you're saying.

So if I paid into a Roth for

a while, yeah,

instead of continuing to do your 15% into traditional funds,

could you max out a Roth instead?

And in addition to.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I can play with the Roth option as well.

Yeah, I'm just saying going forward, so you have those funds.

So your 15%,

it's going to be, I mean,

you will be able to max out a Roth and then

some.

And then the extra would then fall into, would trickle, you know, over into the traditional is what I'm saying.

Yeah, but yeah, and it will mess up some of your formula because it's going to be after-tax dollars going in.

Right.

So that's what you're saying.

So yeah, so mess with that too.

But I think, again, you're,

I appreciate the detail in it all because I think it's very fair, a great question to ask because housing is the largest expense that we have.

And if you could go into retirement with a paid-off house, that's just incredible.

But I think for you, make it a goal, or maybe it's a goal too, Shauna, that you're like, okay, maybe I'm going to work a little bit more extra and I'm going to try to have half of this paid off.

That'd be great.

That's going in.

You know, have

some level of aggression with it because I think that's fair.

But also, I would not feel like a failure if you go into retirement at 60 with $2.5 million

and a $200,000 mortgage that you can pay off with it.

So

I think you're going to be great.

Yeah.

And just in case you were wondering, it's the mortgage payoff calculator.

We can probably link to it in the show notes.

So you can play around with that.

Or if you're listening and you've wondered the same question, you can play along with that calculator.

All right.

Let's take a couple of social questions, Rachel.

We haven't done one of those in a minute.

Ooh, Hannah from Facebook says, how long should adult children stay on their parents' cell phone and car insurance plans?

Oh, man.

George Camill and I talked about this.

And actually, I think John Deloney was on an episode of Smart Money Happy Hour.

I don't think it's released yet, but we did a whole recording.

And this got brought up.

And my mom's heart went out.

I don't know why.

Subscriptions drive me nuts.

Like, if people share Netflix accounts with their parents, I'm like, get your own Netflix account.

But for some reason, the cell phone plan doesn't bother me.

I don't know why.

I wasn't expecting that.

I don't know what I was expecting.

I wasn't expecting that.

I don't know why.

It just doesn't.

I don't know.

It just doesn't bother me.

Because I think as a family plan, it's just, you just get a better rate.

I don't know why, Jade.

It's the number one thing.

Okay.

I don't know why the cell phone does not bother me.

That's so funny.

I think I think of Amelia.

I don't know.

And we have a whole family plan.

And I don't know.

Like, I'd get a rush to get her off.

I would want her off my Netflix account before my cell phone.

And it makes no financial sense.

I don't get it.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I get.

So when I met Sam and we were getting engaged, he was on his mom's like Verizon or whatever.

And was that such a turn off?

You were like, I drew a line in the sand.

I was like, here's a couple of things that must happen today.

How old was he?

How old was he?

That would have been 23.

23.

Okay.

I'm seeing he's still pretty young.

Yeah, 23.

And I was like, your mom is still, you're still on your mom's.

Like, I'm so judgmental, but so funny.

Which is fair.

It's how it probably should be.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, we have a few, we have a few young people in the booth saying that they're still on it.

Yeah, you're still on it.

Okay.

No, listen, no judgment, no shade.

Is it out?

Yeah, but again, every other, every other part of life, I'm like, no, be on your own.

But for some reason, the cell phone plan just doesn't like cut me to my core.

I mean, and the insurance,

you could be on that.

Medical insurance till 26, is that right?

With Obamacare and stuff, when all that went through.

So yeah, be on that till 26.

That doesn't bother me.

Car insurance?

No, you got to pay your own car insurance.

Yeah, that drops.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Usually you're doing that like in high school.

I feel like that's the thing.

Yeah.

That's the thing.

Parents pay the, if you have a debt on it, parents pay the note, you pay the insurance.

Insurance, yeah.

yeah, that feels good.

My full-time job is helping people make smart money decisions.

But in my spare time, I'm a grill master.

Okay, more of a semi-amateur enthusiast.

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You are listening to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, thanks for hanging out with us.

Let's see.

Buying or selling your home is a big deal, guys, and we believe that.

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Alrighty, let's get to the phone lines.

We've got Chandler in Dalton, Georgia.

Hey, Chandler, how can we help today?

Hey, I was wondering if I,

I guess, took the right steps on purchasing my first home.

Tell us about it.

So I am 21 years old.

When I turned 19, I bought three acres of property.

I've been kind of clearing and setting aside.

And I recently just went out and bought a mobile home, which I know y'all aren't too fond of, but considering the market and

realistically the payments right now, I didn't know if there was a better option.

And I just wanted to be able to live comfortably.

And

I just didn't want to see.

I didn't know if it would end up going under or not.

Well, yeah, the mobile home is going to go down in value, but let's talk about the land that you have it on that you purchased.

How much land and what'd you pay for it?

You know, what uh three acres.

It's uh three acres and I paid thirty-five thousand.

Okay, and that was cash.

Oh, wow, good.

Okay, and then the mobile home, what'd you spend on that?

Um,

so it wound up being a ninety thousand dollar

uh loan, but I put ten down, so I only had to borrow eighty.

Okay, so you owe eighty on the mobile home.

What's your ultimate goal?

I mean, I'm guessing your ultimate goal is to save up and to be able to build a house on this land?

Eventually, honestly, I'd like to find more property in the future.

I'd really like to have around 10 acres.

Currently, I guess I'm just trying to figure out.

This whole life thing is getting kind of strange a little bit older I get.

I'd like to be able to pay it off as soon as possible, but also be able to enjoy myself at the same time.

Okay.

So

yeah, the part that you said earlier when you called was like, you know, you guys aren't huge fans of mobile homes.

It's just, it's simply because they go down in value, and it's hard to build wealth when you're tied to something that's constantly going down instead of up.

Um, so if you said to me, Jade, you know,

my goal is to have the thing paid off, I just want to live freely.

I might have said spend less on the mobile home and just pay for it in cash, but you're locked into 80,000.

How quickly can you pay it off and be done with it?

I'm honestly not sure.

I'm expecting, hopefully, maybe in five to 10 years.

I know that's a wide range, but

how old are you, Chandler?

I've got 25 hustles.

21.

You're 21, okay.

And what do you earn?

What's your yearly and monthly income?

Right now, it's $52,000.

That's pre-tax.

And I bring home about $800 a week.

So it would be what?

$16,000, $32,000.

Yeah.

So my goal, if you say your goal is to pay it off, then that's my goal for you to pay it off.

Now,

me, if I were you, I would have thought, and it's not too late to do this, but is there a way that I can get into something less expensive so that I'm not going to lose as much of my shirt on it?

And then I can be putting aside money to save for, you know, a down payment on building something.

Right.

That would be my ultimate goal.

Okay.

I just think that.

Yeah, I'll definitely look to see.

I guess

I'm not really

too set on moving per se because i honestly don't know what i want to do but i agree with you know going down from 80 that's i can see where that's the you know depreciation of it and as far as

the future would go because

i mean what other even even then i could come out without losing money but i'm not sure i would even make any because i'm imagining you also have another vehicle right like the what you drive every day

yes i have two uh-huh And what do you have loans on those?

They're paid for.

Okay.

But those are also going down in value.

Right.

That's going down.

Those other two vehicles are also going down in value.

And eventually you'll have to replace those.

So I'm just trying to get you into a situation where there's just more value in where you're putting your income.

I love the goal of eventually having more acres, but I do think if I were you, I'd want to get into a stable living condition first before I start investing in more land with my cash.

Right.

Yeah.

And I would be thinking through, okay, what can I start do?

What can I, what can I do now to start just saving in general for the future?

So do you have any savings at all?

I have about 17,000.

Okay, that's great.

You're doing really great for 21.

Can I just say that?

Like you, you know what I mean?

Like I probably wouldn't have made like this specific decision on the housing, but

overall, like you had 10,000 to put down, you have 17 saved.

I mean, like you're, you're really moving and going.

Are you investing at all into any level of retirement or into the market?

No,

at this exact moment, no.

I just started a new job.

Okay.

Which is,

I worked here before,

but I started doing it when I was in high school.

So it was on an internship and I really didn't pay well.

So I left and then came back and there was a significant raise.

Okay.

That's great.

It It feels pretty set in stone.

I'm still in the, you know, the 90-day grace.

So

in turn, when, you know, when it's time to start investing in the 401k and whatnot, I'll be able to do the match.

Okay, great.

Yeah.

So that's kind of your next, you said, something about all this adult stuff is a lot.

So I'm just adding another to your plate, though.

But for real, I mean, Chandler, the way you're moving, I don't want you to lose ground from a future standpoint, which again, we're not in any rush.

You're 21.

You're fine.

But the sooner, you know, you get a Roth open and and a 401k, you start putting some money aside.

Because, Jade, I would treat this like a baby step six, or would you move it to baby step two?

I think that I would move this to baby step two because it's going down in value.

You would do and you would pay it off before even.

Yeah, I'd either pay it off, or like I said, if you're looking, I don't know.

the mobile home market well.

Yeah.

But if you start looking and say, man, I actually probably could have gotten something for 40 that gets the job done, I might try to make that sale and make that swap just so that you're again

in half the time.

I will say I was looking, and like the base price on one that you could get into is probably around 50 to 60, but

that didn't, I don't think that includes included closing costs or warranties.

Okay, okay.

But I made sure to get a good warranty on everything that I got online.

That way, everything is covered if need be.

And also, I do a lot of side side jobs, just trying to make as much as I can to get somewhere.

Yeah.

And listen, I'm always thinking ahead.

I'm thinking about, you know, the future Mrs.

Chandler that when you meet her, she might be like, I don't want to live in a mobile home.

So I want you to be ready, you know, when that season comes.

I've met her.

I just haven't.

I got to, I'm trying to do it right.

I'm trying to get her to, I want her to be special, you know.

I don't want to go, I know it's all different to some, but that's like, she keeps telling me, she's like, go buy a hundred dollar ring, like, go to the pawn shop.

And I'm like, look, I understand, but I wanted to be social for you.

That's only going to happen once.

Oh, there is a Mrs.

Chew.

Okay.

Okay.

Where does she want to do this?

Where does she want to live?

She is 100% on track for a mobile home.

She's excited.

Okay.

I've told her.

Listen,

you hit the nail on the head when you said everybody's different.

They have different preferences.

If you're in this home, you guys are happy.

She's happy.

Yeah, the biggest thing is let's get

out of it as quickly as possible into something that you're building.

You may not end up paying it off.

I'm not saying that the goal is to pay it off, but I am saying that the goal is to stay obviously current on it while you're saving for a down payment to build something that's secure on your land.

That's what I would do, Chandler.

Thank you so much for the call.

It's a good call.

It's great.

Are you staying on track with the baby steps?

That is the question.

And the baby steps is part of the Ramsey plan that we teach around here.

And if you're wondering if you're on track, you can take the quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you.

Simply head to the show notes and click the link that's titled, Are You on Track with the Baby Steps?

and complete that quiz today.

Mary is in Salt Lake City, Utah.

What's up, Mary?

How can we help today?

Well, about a year and a half ago, my husband got involved with some online investment deal, which turned out to be a scam.

They just,

he gave away

all our retirement,

and then he borrowed another about $250,000 more to get out of it.

So I wake up every day worried.

My question was about cash.

I'm worried about next year's federal state taxes.

Are we going to start owing a lot of money?

We're sort of going okay.

We got two jobs each.

We paid off a lot of the debt.

We're working on it.

We paid off about half of it.

But I just keep worrying the other shoe is going to drop, and I worry about taxes.

We paid last year's taxes.

We were able to pay our federal taxes, I think, and then we got a refund, a federal refund, which we use to pay our state taxes but I'm just wondering you know how should we proceed from here

gosh Mary oh I'm so sorry how old are you guys

well that's the problem I'm 75 he's 72

I'm so sorry oh Mary

okay

so your your worry is about taxes is what you're saying first and foremost.

Well, I'm thinking, yeah, everything, like, we're doing okay.

We're paying this stuff off.

We got a reverse mortgage on the house, which gave us some money,

you know, but that was another, that was $250,000.

Now that is against our

equity.

Oh, gosh.

Okay.

So

you lost the retirement.

Can you tell me how much was in the retirement that was lost?

I hate to rehash it.

Well, that's the thing.

I think there was about a little over $500,000.

Okay.

And that was not this year, that was the previous year.

So you said you already paid the taxes on him liquidating that.

Is that correct?

I guess so.

You know, the thing is, every time I talk to him, I can't handle it.

But he told me we were able to pay the 2024 taxes.

Okay.

2024.

So this started in April 2024.

So we paid the 2024 taxes.

This year

you did that in January.

This year, right.

We did that in January.

So you should be off the hook for the largest amount if

everything happened the way you said it did and that money was spent and used up in 2024 and 2020, maybe 2023.

I'm not sure.

Yeah, do you have

evidence of that, Mary?

Like, I would want to see documentation here on out

from him.

I know he's saying,

but I'm like, I just want to make sure that things are actually happening the way he says because to pay taxes on that, I mean, that's a lot of cash.

I mean, if you liquidated half a million dollars from your retirement.

Well, is that what he borrowed the money for?

To pay taxes?

No,

no.

He tried to get out of this thing, I think.

And he they kept saying, oh, well, you need to pay these fees and you need to pay this tax.

So he kept borrowing money and giving to them, thinking it was getting them out of this skim.

But in reality, he was just giving them more money.

Are you working, are you, is you or your husband working with the tax professional?

No.

Okay, today, and we're going to make sure, Kelly's going to pick up, we're going to make sure you're going to get.

hooked up with one of our Ramsey Trusted pros.

We'll find a tax provider in your area that's going to help you.

And a financial coach

on us just to to get an hour with to sort through all this because

depending on to Jade's point,

what he because he borrowed money for what?

Like, I know he liquidated the retirement.

Why did he borrow $250,000?

Because they told him the scammers.

Oh, he went into more of the scam.

Oh, the $250,000.

Yeah.

Yeah, he built.

They kept saying,

have they been?

Who is it?

I mean, is it a company?

Is it a person, like a financial advisor?

Like, who?

No.

Yeah, where do you find him?

Okay, so my understanding is some guy he used to work with

back then called him and said, hey, I've got this great thing going on.

Do you want to get in on it?

And I'll have my girl call you, which she did, and he started investing.

Now, the investment went through a cryptocurrency.

So he had to give it to this account and it turned crypto and then it went.

Now we reported this whole thing to the I don't know the FBI and the police and the Justice Department or something.

But sometimes there can be

lawsuits out of all of this.

I wonder if there's

I don't think we can find these people.

He's done.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean, we have the information that we gave the information.

The The $250,000, Mary, was that when you said

he borrowed $250,000, was that a personal loan or was that against the house?

Was that the reverse mortgage?

It was many things.

He had $69,000 from a company, you know,

to borrow.

I don't know if I could say names of companies.

The bad thing is he borrowed $88,000.

My son

gave him $88,000, which he turned in.

Some of his, his, he's a big crypto guy.

He did a personal loan from somebody for $30,000.

He went, he took personal loans.

He ran away.

Okay, so this is

beyond the $250,000 is beyond the reverse mortgage, the money you guys got out of the house.

Well, then when this all happened, we got a reverse mortgage to pay some of this off.

Okay.

Got it.

Okay.

Listen, you've got.

This is way more than we can unravel in this few minutes.

Just promise me, promise me that when we give you this help that you're going to take it.

And please, please, I just.

The taxes is not what I would, I mean, I understand that you would worry about those, but

for you guys in your future, I'm like, there's just, there's, there's bigger things happening.

And I know the urgency for you is the taxes next year.

But getting, you'll get, you'll get answers with the tax professionals.

They look at all of it to make sure what was paid out of that specifically that retirement account for me.

And then obviously that you guys are keeping up with your, you know, paying state and federal, which is what you're doing.

And you're working, you've got money coming in, you've probably got Social Security coming in.

How much is coming in every month for you,

Mary?

Well, our Social Security is about

5,000, a little over 5,000.

And then our part-time jobs,

you know, it's so hard to say.

We're

maybe

$5,000 to maybe $1,000 dollars a month between all of our part-time jobs.

In the winter, when the resorts start opening, we have a job there which pays well and so we'll make be making more money.

But we are working as much as we can.

I had a garage sale today.

I just got $218 this morning.

So all of that goes to paying charge cards bills.

Listen, Mary, you are, you're a gangster.

Like your your attitude in all this is stellar.

The fact that you're willing to go back to work, you're doing garage sales, you're doing a lot.

I am proud of you.

I'm sorry that this happened.

We're going to make sure that you get everything you need in your corner so that you guys can keep fighting through this.

It sounds like you do need a budget.

You need every dollar.

We're going to make sure you have that, the best version of it, so that you can see where every dime of this hard-earned money is going to go because you're going to need it.

And guys, listen,

please listen.

If something sounds too good to be true, it is.

And I know people always kind of rag that our advice is like so boring and it's just not new and into all the cool new things.

This is why.

Yeah.

This is why.

Please, just like be boring.

Be boring.

And if there's something that's like, oh my God, this is amazing.

There's a spirit of greed in that too.

It should be a red flag.

That's right.

Okay.

Slow and steady wins the race, you guys.

Don't fall for this crap.

In the crypto world, it's everywhere.

Everywhere.

Everywhere.

And they prey on the elderly.

This is it.

This is literally it.

So, oh, so sad.

Hey, teachers, your students are stepping into the real world and starting to deal with the money challenges that all grown-ups face.

From making that first paycheck stretch to figuring out how to afford college or trade school, they need real-life knowledge and know-how right now.

And with foundations and personal finance, your students can learn how to budget, how to save, how to avoid debt, like real-world money skills that last a lifetime.

So learn more by going to ramseysolutions.com/slash foundations.

That's ramseysolutions.com/slash foundations.

From the Ramsey Network, you're listening to the Ramsey Show.

I'm Jade Warshaw.

Next to me, Rachel Cruz, continuing to take calls about your life, your money, and like I said, everything in between.

You can get involved in the show by dialing 888-825-5225,

and our producer Kelly will pick up and try to get you on that line.

Let's go straight to the phone lines where we have Olivia.

She's in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Hey, Olivia, what can we do today?

Olivia, are you there?

Are you there?

I'm going to put her on hold.

Oh, you're there.

Hey, just in the nick of time.

Yes.

Hi, Olivia.

Hi.

Thanks for taking my call.

My husband just finished BSM school in May.

We didn't take out any additional debt for him to go to nursing school.

Once he finishes orientation in December, his estimated gross income will be about $88,000 with the opportunity to make $100,000 if he picks up an extra shift every pay period, which would net us about like $70,000 after tithe and taxes.

Cool.

Also get a $10,000 sign-on bonus that comes in four installments over his first year of employment.

He would like to go back to school in two years for a doctorate in nurse anesthesia, which is a three-year program.

It would increase his earning potential to $250,000.

The cost of tuition is about $125,000, which you can get covered by going into the military or getting accepted into a rural medicine scholarship program.

However, you're not allowed to work in years two and three of the program.

We currently have $200,000 in student loan debt with varied interest rate.

We have $4,300 in credit card debt with a 25% interest rate.

We've been married for three and a half years.

We're trying to start a family.

We've been trying for about 11 months with one miscarriage at the seven month mark.

And we have a 2007 Toyota, which has like one to two years left of life in it

we're wondering what to put our money towards first between saving up for baby the car needing a new 2s car

and the debt and then once we pay off the car

and save up for our once we save up for a new car

save up for the baby and pay off that credit card debt should we start saving for him to go to school since it would increase the size of our shovel significantly to 250k or should we pay off our student student loan debt before sending him to school what's the 200 student loan debt whose was that

um half of it's my student loan debt and half of it is his okay what do you do

um currently i work part-time as a nanny i make about nine hundred dollars a month just a little extra on the side what was the degree for

I did a grad degree in art therapy, but I did it out of state, so I'm not, I wasn't able to get that degree

without having to jump through a bunch of hoops.

Yeah, what is that?

What kind of job is in art therapy?

So I would be like a licensed therapist.

I would

be a licensed therapist.

Are you a licensed?

Did you get your license?

Did you get the license with the $100,000 tuition?

No, so you can get your license in some states, but the state that I'm currently in doesn't let me get licensed right away without having to pay like additional,

like a couple thousand dollars for additional classes here in my state and having to like do a bunch of testing and go through jump through a bunch of hoops what does a person who does finally get that certification what kind of money do they earn

I'm thinking I can't remember if you I'm just trying to decide is it worth paying the couple of thousand for you to get your art therapy license so you can actually work in your field

Yeah, I could also like work as an unlike not through a license.

I could work work in a community center and say like I can do therapeutic art with your clients.

I just can't be like a licensed therapist if I do that.

Okay.

Which that's going to be determined by the company.

Okay.

But getting my license here in Oklahoma, it would take me like five years to get there.

And if he goes to nurse and that's his school.

So here's what I would do, Olivia.

He's making 80, going to be making 100 because I would definitely take that shift.

You guys are in debt.

If I were you, I'm applying for jobs and I'm going to be a receptionist at a dental, you know,

place.

I'm just like, you're going to go and make it a goal to make $50,000 a year.

You need to go do something, Olivia.

Really?

Because you guys have over $200,000 in debts

and have a dream of other big things, which is amazing, that's going to cost money.

So we need money coming in.

So he's going to be working an extra shift.

Can he pick up an extra extra shift?

I mean, nursing is like an amazing field to be in.

Yes.

Because you guys are dual income, no kids.

You're in the dink phase.

And so take advantage of it, Olivia.

Start working your butts off because, yes, I want all of this debt paid off

before

you guys get a second degree.

Okay.

Even though it's going to cause a shovel to be bigger, the shovel will be bigger.

You know, when you guys start working extra and you work in two jobs, right?

I'm like, you can start making the shovel bigger now.

And so that's what I would focus on.

Save up 10 grand for a crappy car when the Honda goes out in two years.

Create a sinking fund where you put

$500, $600 a month away for a sinking fund.

And then on the side, yeah, let's be trying for kids.

And I'm going to say when you get pregnant, that's my prayer for you.

Pause everything.

You guys save up cash when that happens.

We call that stork mode.

And pile up a big part of cash.

You're guys still working, working, working, working, working, working, working.

Baby comes.

All right.

Everyone good?

Okay.

Whatever's left in the savings, we're going to throw at the debt.

But my goal for you guys would be, gosh, I mean, if y'all could make,

I mean, try to get this paid off.

I don't know, Jade.

Is this crazy to say?

Two and a half years?

I think so.

Because if she starts making 50, that means you're making 150.

But if you live on half, where are you guys?

Yeah, you're in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Yeah, you live on $75,000.

That's average income, you know, median income so if you live on that um and so that means you're putting the other uh 75 towards your debt you know I get it men's taxes I think that you guys could do this no I think I don't think you're crazy two and a half years yeah two and a half years make make some crazy goals Olivia crazy goals and then in two and a half years

then in two and a half years

to get a job like a full-time job while we're trying for babies yeah gonna tell them I'm not gonna be there

yes yes because you don't know what the future holds and you can still work for the eight of the nine months that you're pregnant.

So, you know, there's a lot that can take place in nine months, money-wise, with you at the full earnings.

You're not currently expecting, are you?

No.

No, okay, yeah, yeah.

So I would.

Now, if you were expecting, you would have to, you know, I would be forthcoming with an employer.

I probably, you know, in that case, just as good courtesy.

Yeah, okay.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Whatever.

It depends.

It depends on who you work with.

All that to say.

That's right.

All that to say.

All that to say,

you can work and try and have the baby.

And that's great.

And then you got nine months of work.

We're both moms.

We've both expected a chance.

Listen, here at Ramsey, because I know what kind of company it is, I'm being forthcoming.

You know, that's fair.

You know what?

That's right.

I wasn't, that's true.

That is true, Jade.

That is true.

And you don't legally have to say, yeah, you don't have to say it.

Yeah.

So, anyways, but you're not pregnant right now.

So be applying for jobs

and go work your tails off, Olivia.

Get this paid off and then continue to live on nothing,

on nothing to save up 125 and take them through the program.

And if you guys are in your early 30s doing that by the time all this is said and done, it's great.

It's great.

You're living a great life.

Rachel.

Rachel, you got a little spice today, Rachel.

I'm here for this.

Well, in that one, I think we can do it.

I think we can be a little

snappier there.

Thanks for calling, Olivia.

Hey guys, George Camill here.

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Lisa is in Cincinnati, Ohio.

Lisa, how can we help today?

Hi.

Hi.

Thank you for taking my call.

My husband and I are baby step millionaires for probably about eight years now, yes.

Nice.

The house has never been paid off.

Actually, we sold a house and bought another one since in the meantime during this.

But my question is, my I loaned, well we did, we loaned $50,000 to my daughter because she needed to do some upgrades on her house.

And she is now selling that house, so she's going to pay us back with the equity that she has in it.

My question is:

Should I,

my husband has, we both have a list on what we want to do with 50,000, and it's things we want to buy, but should or should I put the 50,000 towards our mortgage that is the only debt that we have?

There's a couple of things in this.

How much do you guys owe on the mortgage?

$300,000.

Okay.

How much you guys make a year?

We are both retired and we

bring in about $7,000 a month.

Okay.

And how much is in retirement?

I have that.

$890,000.

Great.

$890,000.

That's great.

Good job, guys.

I think you could,

if you were both in agreement that that's what what you want to do with this money, I wouldn't have'cause it's almost like it's not like a windfall, like it was money that was already yours and you kind of took it away to do this and now you're just getting it back again.

Um so if you wanted to put the whole amount, you totally could.

Is there anything else on your list that you would do with the money?

Well, my husband wants a side-by-side, which I think's a total waste, but you know, that's what he wants.

So I've got to kind of please him too.

How old are you guys?

One thing

I am 61 and he's 63.

Okay.

I would like to at least put away $2,000 per grandkid for, I don't know, just for future colleagues or something, which I don't know where to put it.

And that would be only $8,000 of it.

And then, like, I would like to take a river for Cruise for me and him just to have a big splurge of a good vacation for us both.

Yeah, I would do that.

How much is a side-by-side?

It depends on what you get.

Of course,

the most expensive would probably be $25,000, but you can probably get one for about between $15,000 and $20,000.

But I know I've looked at used ones, and you don't know what you're buying with a used one if it's really going to work that long or anything.

So I'm for a brand new one if that's

for a used one.

I'd be for a used side-by-side.

I'd be for

maybe you decide.

I think if you both say, hey, we both want to put the $8,000 aside and $5.29 is for the grandkids, you know, know, we'll get with the parents and figure out what that is.

I love that idea.

And I like you guys deciding on maybe one really cool thing, whether it's the river cruise or the side-by-side deal.

And then I like another portion of this going towards the house.

That way you're kind of, you're giving, you're saving, and you're spending.

You're doing the three things that you would do with money and you're doing it in a fair, what I think is a pretty fair ratio.

I think.

Okay.

Do you like side-by-side?

Like, are you into that whatsoever?

Or are you like, no?

Yeah, I mean, I could go with it.

Well, kind of, I had an accident on one shit.

I won't like them a lot, but I could go with it.

But I just don't feel like we have six acres, but you really can't travel the whole six on a side-by-side.

So I just feel like it's a waste for the little bit of.

I don't know.

I don't know how I would split this.

My other thought would be: do you take one of those big purchases, the River Cruise, or the

side-by-side?

And you guys cash flow that?

Yeah, cash flow it.

Yeah.

It would be nice to have a bigger chunk on the mortgage.

Yeah, and just to throw a good amount on it as early as possible, would be now versus in like you know, 10 years, or hopefully it won't take you 10 years.

But

I don't know, there's a part of me that would cash flow one of the big purchases and you guys decide what to do with that.

Yeah, I would not do the side-by-side and the river cruise.

I think you have to decide.

Yeah, and then cash flow the other one.

You can do them in these baby steps, both of them eventually, but I would just probably pump the brakes on one and you guys decide together.

And

the kids, yeah, you could do that for eight grand if you wanted, for sure.

Yeah, thanks for the call.

That's a really good question.

It's

the one thing that we didn't talk about, which I probably should have mentioned, was the gifted 50,000.

I wouldn't gift any money anymore, Lisa.

I would, or the borrowed money, I should say.

Yes, I wouldn't borrow or lend money anymore from now on.

Let's just do gifts.

It sounds like this is going to end fine and end well, but in the future, I wouldn't do that.

Thanks for the call.

That's a good one.

Let's go to Brian.

He's in Phoenix, Arizona.

Hey, Brian, how can we help today?

Hey, how are you both doing?

So glad you took my call.

Oh, of course.

Happy to help.

What's going on?

Yeah.

Cool.

So basically, we're in baby step three.

Just got there, paid off about a hundred grand in debt.

Amazing.

And so start, thank you.

So starting to build up that emergency fund.

But

I got married or we got married about six months ago.

Oh, Oh, congratulations.

I didn't know anybody.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Didn't really tell anybody because we weren't at the point to like have a wedding and stuff.

So that's coming up.

Okay.

So we've got a wedding coming up.

And then, of course, want to do a honeymoon as well.

And so my conundrum is, can I pay for the wedding and the honeymoon, which is going to have, you know, some upfront costs to get things booked and whatnot while we're in the middle of saving for babies for our emergency fund.

Oh, yeah.

That's a great question.

Okay.

How much do you guys have?

Do you have any level of an emergency fund right now, like any amount of money, just for that, not for wedding or not for honeymoon?

Yeah, I mean, just a thousand.

Like I've got 10 grand, but it's kind of earmarked for the wedding.

And some of the, like, the venue fees are coming up pretty quick in the next couple of months, just based on the timing of when it's going to happen.

Yeah, for sure.

Here's what I would say, Brian.

I, yeah, cash flowing the wedding.

And then,

I mean, I would want to go somewhere, do some level of destination, but also only having $1,000 in the bank and like going to the Caribbean just makes me nervous.

I don't know.

There's a part of me that I'm like, I would want

maybe to get away to a degree.

Yes.

And then build up some of that emergency fund.

And then you guys take a one-year anniversary trip or something.

You know, like the destination doesn't have to be, I know we make it such a big deal as like a honeymoon.

And like,

it's a thing.

And I get that.

And I think getting away together is great.

I just don't think I would take a big, extravagant trip without having money in the bank saved.

Yeah.

And there's two parts of this.

So, and I might be saying this wrong.

I got married 18 years ago.

So things have changed.

But

what if you...

It's almost like you know that you're going to get money from the honeymoon, like from the wedding.

What if you did a trip, but it's just not like the day after the wedding, right?

Like, cause you know you're going to have money come in.

I know a lot of people, when they do their registry, they have like the little honey fund.

And so you can give your gift to the the honeymoon fund and then that money is there for you to then take the trip that you want to take even if it's you planning it do you see what i'm saying how much do you guys make a year together yeah i do i do see what you're saying and and i actually have kind of a caveat to to what you guys are saying but i agree with that and it makes me nervous as well um i make i make 160 i'm the breadwinner that's great full income i make 160 a year i've actually been like door dashing too recently just to get like an extra thousand bucks a month why doesn't she work here's some

um she's in between right now.

She was, we were running like a dance studio.

So we had like a dance business going, but it started kind of wearing us out in like late nights and stuff.

And so she's going to go back to doing hair.

She has her cosmetology license.

So she's getting that transferred over from the state she moved in.

And so that will get that additional income.

Now, here's another thing to add.

I guess I maybe should have added it in the beginning.

So at the rate I'm saving, I will, my plans like forecasting this, I will have the emergency fund saved up for by the time we have the wedding.

It's just that right now, I have to like, I have to put all this money out, right?

I've got, I've got 10 grand that I've got saved.

It's going to go out the door next month.

And then I'm going to have to book.

I'm going to do like a Mediterranean cruise in Europe is the plan.

Got it.

Amazing.

Okay.

Great.

Great.

So, yes.

Keep at it.

Let's just cross our fingers.

We don't lose a job.

And

I think you're good.

Yeah.

If you're, if you're earmarking, it sounds like you have a plan.

And so, yes, you could be putting money towards the wedding wedding and honeymoon while also simultaneously saving for the emergency funds.

Emergency fund will be full by the time the wedding and honeymoon get here, so you're good to go.

Okay, great plan.

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Today's question comes from Sarah in New Jersey.

I am $70,000 in debt.

I used to work full-time and we lived off my income except for $700 my husband gave me monthly for rent.

My husband is extremely disciplined.

He has a high-paying job and has been saving for a down payment while I have been living paycheck to paycheck.

Our finances are separated.

Yeah, sounds like it.

And I was laid off last year and have been working part-time to pay for childcare and my debt.

I am always in the negative in my account and I can't keep up.

We have our dream house in our grasps, in our grasp,

but I don't know if we can make it work.

I am using every dollar to cut expenses and has sold a bunch of stuff to pay down debt.

I don't want my husband to lose his dream house because of me.

I really want to know from an expert if we can make this work.

i'm so sad by this

yeah you know i know okay so sarah i mean

can you make it work uh

i mean you can but it will take you on a road that continues to feel this way of you being stressed out financially him

being disciplined and and doing his own thing and you guys are completely on two separate planets like even from a a it's not even like oh we both make the same

like socially he's here and you're here like what do you like what classes like you're in a different class what do you do with that I mean yeah Sarah this is not a healthy outlook and habits around having a healthy marriage it's not and so um

I don't know if there's something on your end that he's seeing that he doesn't trust.

I can't, I don't know what his take is.

Right.

But I think you guys need to sit down together together and say, hey, if we have a dream, it's our dream house is what you guys are saying.

We have a dream to get this together.

How can we most efficiently get this, what we want together?

And the most efficient way is to say, hey, all the chips are on the table and we're going to figure this out together.

But that would mean not buying a house right now because y'all have debt.

So, no, you can't get the dream house now.

But if you continue your way, I guess he could with his salary do it.

But I would not advise to keep doing what you've been doing because you guys are going to keep getting what you've been getting, which just feels so,

so separate.

I just can't imagine.

I mean, and this is, this is, I'm not intending to sound judgmental at all, but I, um, there's a lot missing from this that we'll never know because she didn't call in.

But I, I can't imagine a world where let's just pretend, you know, Sam Warshaw was making a bunch more money and I was not making.

And you're living to paycheck.

I'm living to paycheck, paycheck, and he's just watching it happen.

Like, you do know what I mean?

He's watching me struggle, and he's watching me stress out about this and him not responding to that.

And is he not paying for child care either?

Are you going not 50-50 people?

Because she's saying I have to pay for childcare.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, there, there's something about that for me that just at a marriage, respect and care and love level is just off.

Yes, that a husband would sit there and watch his wife.

Yeah, be in trouble.

Yes, yeah, yep.

And again, maybe there's something on your end that you're not telling us, Sarah, like why he's doing this.

I don't know.

Um, that's a yeah, Jade, I'm with you.

Yeah, so important to be on the same page.

Oh, goodness gracious, let's go to Ian in Portland, Oregon.

Ian, thank you for the call.

How can we help today?

Hi, I live kind of in a multi-generational situation.

Um, we have five acres, um,

and it's me, my sister, and parents.

And I was wondering, I recently started a new job, making about $1,400 a week.

Currently, no debt, anything, cars paid off.

But in trying to figure out how to,

I've had credit cards before, so didn't go well, so I don't use credit.

Just trying to figure out where to go from here to get out on my own and

to start building to be able to retire by 55 if I wanted to.

Okay.

Well, let's

take the first step of moving out of your parents.

I think that's a great first step.

So

we would say that your rent or mortgage should be no more than 25% of your take-home pay per month.

So, you know, we're looking at you for

probably around what, $1,500-ish.

Can you get an apartment in your area for that?

I could.

Okay.

I'm not ready.

I don't want to immediately move out because I don't need to.

I'm more than welcome.

It was set up this way so that I'd be able to live there until I'm ready to buy something.

Okay.

Well, how old are you, Ian?

Currently 35 and 20s kind of messed things up.

So

it's fine.

Ian.

Ian.

Yes.

You need to move out.

You're a 35-year-old man.

I don't care if mommy says that you can stay as long as you want.

You're 35.

No, no, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying my personal, I want within the next six months to a year to be out.

And we're saying

six weeks.

Like, why don't you

instantly?

Yeah, go, go.

Because, and I see, you're wanting, it sounds like, let me show you, let me try to get in here.

It sounds like you're wanting the perfect scenario of I leave when I'm able to buy a house.

That's what it sounds like.

And we're saying the conditions don't have to be perfectly favorable for you to leave.

You could leave as soon as you find an apartment, which could really be in three or four weeks.

Or three days, you know?

Yeah.

True.

And you should.

Because

we're your buddies.

Like, we're your friend that you sit down and they tell you the gosh darn truth.

All right.

So we're going to tell you.

The truth is you should have done this a long, long time ago.

That's why we're pushing you to do it now.

And there's nothing stopping you.

We see no reason that you shouldn't do this immediately.

For you, not for us, for you.

Yeah, this is a dignity play here, Ian.

Forget the money side.

Like, this is for you.

Like,

this is good for you to be out on your own.

I mean, are you dating?

Not currently because, you know.

Yeah, we do know.

So there's another reason.

We want love for Ian.

Yes.

And Jade almost dumped sam warshawk as his mom paid for his cell phone let alone living with him so yeah you yeah i would uh yeah ian let's get out let's get out let's get an apartment the world is your oyster your parents are gonna be heartbroken because they've set this whole scenario up it sounds like it's gonna be a big conversation is it or are they gonna be great being like are they gonna cheer you on or are they gonna cry

uh

It would be definitely a difficult conversation, yes.

Yes, which is another reason why we we need to.

It's like a sticky web.

Like the longer you stay in it, the harder it is to get out of it because everybody's pulling it back.

And there's probably some, I'm going to just say it too, Ian.

I don't know, some relational codependence probably going on.

I mean, there's some stuff there.

So,

yes, as your two friends, if we were sitting down

and talking to you in person, this is exactly what I'd say to you.

I'd say, Ian, come on, man, you can do this.

You can do this.

You can do this.

So, yeah, I would get out 100%

and start renting, save up for a down payment on a home.

And I know you said you have no debt, which is amazing.

You're not using credit cards.

So good.

So good.

Get some cash, you know, for

to have an emergency fund.

And I think kind of just, yeah, feel how that feels to pull up to your own parking spot at the apartment.

And I don't know.

There's just something really great about that.

It's freedom.

You get to see who you are in life.

Yes, right?

Zero dependent.

There's not a safety net there.

Like you got to stand on your own.

And there's something about that that is so good.

So good for people.

And so if you want to move home for not you, Ian, sorry, but America, if you want to move home for a season because there's something like you graduated college and you need to move home for a few months while you find your first job, I don't know.

There's time.

I'm not black and white about that.

Yeah, yeah, sure.

Me needing.

But when we're 35,

we are

to fly and be free.

I don't know why I cringe to quote Dave, but I quote him because he said, an eagle that doesn't leave the nest eventually becomes a turkey.

And we don't want that for you, Ian.

You're a good man.

And

those dating apps are going to do wonders for you knowing that you're out on your own.

Yes.

Your Ramsey Show scripture and quote of the day, John 13:35 says, This, By this, everyone will know that you are my disciples if you love one another.

That one thing.

And then Dolly Parton, Love Her, said, Find out who you are and do it on purpose.

Oh, I love that.

I love it.

You know, she collaborated with Beyonce on a tune with Cowboy Carter.

I don't think I knew that.

Yeah, she did.

Did she play it at the concert?

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Two tunes.

They're really good.

Anyway, love Dolly.

Moving on, Thomas in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

What's going on, Thomas?

So I'm currently a student at college.

I got out of state.

And I was just wondering

the best way to like tackle these student loans when I graduate.

By the time I'm done, it'll be around $45,000.

Okay.

So you're current, you're going to continue to take the student loans?

Yeah,

it's about the only way that

I'm pretty sure for out of state, they required it for this school.

I have no idea, but.

No, student loans are never a requirement.

They're definitely a choice.

I'm just wondering, what year did you say you're in?

I'm 30, or fourth year, sorry.

Oh, you're already fourth year.

Okay, so it's kind of like

the deed's been done.

It's done.

Okay.

So what's your major in?

And tell us what you've done research on on what you think you'll earn when you hit the market.

So I'm doing cybersecurity, and I have an internship lined up with this company that by the time I complete school, I'll work there for about $130.

And I think the take-home is like $92.93.

Good for you.

Good.

Pay it off in a year, Thomas.

That's that.

Work a little extra, live on 50,

and pay it off.

Yeah.

And decide, by the way, that you're not going to go back into debt again.

You know, use this as a learning experience.

Rachel and I, if you had called us four years ago, we would have told you not to go into debt for school.

You're here now.

You can pay it off.

And Tom.

Sorry, what I was going to say.

And live like you're a college student, even when you're not in college.

So this first year, making $130,000 out of college is amazing.

You're going to feel like you hit the freaking lottery.

Don't feel that though.

Feel nothing.

Have no emotion towards

Thomas.

Be numb inside and pay off the debt.

Live still like you live with roommates.

I mean, like, live like you are a college student for one year, get this cleaned up.

And then, holy crap, you're going to make $130,000

with no debt.

Year two.

He's probably going to be, and you'll probably get a raise.

You know what I mean?

Like, so just please, please sacrifice as early and as quickly as possible.

Don't drag this out.

Don't go buy a new car.

Like, don't do it.

Yeah, because it's lazy.

He sounds like a bro, too.

Thomas, you hear him?

I don't know.

I feel like Thomas is good.

I think you can get some like, yeah, live with your roommates, eat nothing but crappy fast food for a year.

No, don't do that.

Ah, see, I had James organic health.

Here's the thing.

Rachel's right.

The tendency,

the tendency is going to be, because this is, here's what's going to happen.

You're going to get your payment and you're going to go, oh, it's only a couple hundred bucks a month.

That's no big deal.

I can keep that around forever.

Please, Rachel is 100% right.

Don't fall into the trap.

Ooh, good call.

And $45,000.

That's good.

That's doable.

You can do this.

Yeah, he can do this.

If it's $145,000, we talk about that.

That would be a little bit of a longer journey.

Yep.

Pay it off.

Quick, Thomas.

All right.

Speaking of Thomas, we now have Tom in New Jersey.

What's going on, Tom?

How can we help?

Hey, guys.

How you doing?

Thanks for taking the call.

You bet.

Real quick question.

Actually, two questions for you.

So, I am pretty much debt-free.

I have a few thousand dollars left on a credit card.

So, I'm just about at the end of baby step two, and then I plan on moving on.

I kind of found you guys a few weeks ago, and before that, I was kind of wandering aimlessly.

Just

good for you.

You made progress in a few weeks.

I got to get up a little bit of a debt.

But

two questions for you.

So, I got on the Every Budget Budget app and Every Dollar app.

Sorry.

And

I got into splitting everything up and mortgage payments being a quarter of your income.

My mortgage payment is just over $1,500 a month, just the mortgage principal and interest.

And then I have my taxes bundled with it.

So I started freaking out and I was like, oh, crap, this is way over a quarter.

But are you guys including taxes escrowed in with the mortgage as part of of your 25% or is that old?

Taxes, fees, HOA, everything.

How much do you make a month, Thomas?

Okay.

Take home is about $7,200

plus a little bit when I can get the overtime.

Now, is that,

are you doing any investing?

Yes.

So that brings me to the second part of my question.

I do have a Roth IRA that's worth about $55 right now that I have been putting into.

And I also have, I do blue-collar work.

I have a pension and an annuity, which is somewhere north of $200,000.

So

I was kind of like a bad person.

So I would add those.

You can add those back in.

So any retirements add back into that $7,200.

So would that bump you up to what, probably close to $78,000, $8,000?

I guess you don't have a 401k, do you?

You do not.

Well,

it's your, what you take home, like you can take out,

but don't include, you know, things like investing, you know, or

insurance.

It's just minus your taxes.

That's it.

So your take-home pay.

And then tell us what your mortgage is with HOAs, fees, insurance, all of that in.

What is that?

All of that added in with all the fees, insurance is

$2,540.

So you're a little, I mean, if your take-home really is 8,000, you're a little over, but I think that it's survivable.

Like, it's, I mean, it's 500 bucks over.

I think that for what you're earning, and I threw

$8,000.

You did originally say $7,200, but I'm adding back in insurance.

You said you're putting some money into investing.

They're taking out money for a pension, like all of that.

So I think, I don't know, that's a guesstimate.

But you look at your actual numbers.

And the thing is, too, I would not make, yeah, I wouldn't, right now, I wouldn't change your situation by trying to move houses and all of it for 500 bucks because also you're going to probably get a raise.

You'll probably be making more here in the next two, three, four years, which will kind of equal it out, which is great.

Yeah, so you're not, you're not too far off.

Yeah, that's a good call.

You guys have you guys have one more second?

Yeah, of course.

When it does get up to past building the emergency funds three, six months to babysit four, investing when I do have a pension and an IRA

and and an annuity that is contributed into from the union, what would I do with investing then as a 15% goal?

Add those into the 15%?

Partially.

So

we would usually count the pension as half.

So let's say the pension accounts for 10% of your 15%

amount.

Yeah, count it as five, like count it as half.

Simply because you don't have the same amount of control over the investments, you might not, I mean, you and because of that, the rate of return might not be as great.

We really don't know.

Um, what about this annuity business?

Do you have to do that, or can you put that money elsewhere?

Um,

no, unfortunately, it is all bundled into uh into the package that comes in the union.

Okay, it's already bartered for.

So, yeah, so I would count part of that too.

Half of that as well, take 50% of that

to the 15%

too.

So I would be putting 5% into an additional investment.

Yes, if that's what it calculates out to.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Good question.

Good call.

All right.

Thanks, Tom.

Appreciate that.

Thanks, Leah.

Thanks.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to cut you off.

My finger moved too quickly for your voice.

Good question.

Well, and, you know, with the with the 25%,

we say,

again, it's, yeah, I mean, it's hard and fast as you can do it, but knowing that life is going to change.

And if you're already in a housing situation and it's just right above that,

your income ends up changing too, which changes the percentages.

So just always remember that.

But then, yeah, if it's eaten up 50, 60% of your income, you got to get out.

You're not going to be able to survive.

So there's some bigger changes that would have to occur if that was the situation.

There's also part of that where, you know, the rule of thumb is a rule of thumb, but it's like if

your income is a lot lower, you're going to feel that 30%

a lot more than the person who is earning more money.

So in his case, I think, yeah, it being above, he can make it work.

We believe in you, Tom.

All right, that does it for this Ramsey show.

Thanks for hanging out with us.

We'll see you next time.