Keep Hustling: You Have Power Over Your Debt

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show America. Thrilled to have you with us.
This is where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships.

Speaker 1 The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225 is the phone number.
Alongside the incomparable, the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I am Ken Coleman, and we're here to coach you up today.

Speaker 1 So we got those money questions. We got some work-related questions.
Hey, I need some more income. I like helping people make Mo money.
Mo money, Mo money, Mo money.

Speaker 1 And by the way, if you're at the Ramsey show and we help you make Mo money, it doesn't come with Mo problems.

Speaker 2 It better not. Not here.
Yeah, we have the good kind of Mo money. That's right.

Speaker 1 So let's get right to it. Josh is going to start us off in Augusta, Maine.
Josh, how can we help today?

Speaker 3 So I've got a bit of a strange problem here.

Speaker 1 Perfect. Jade loves strange problems.
I love weird problems.

Speaker 3 Perfect. It might not sound so strange once I explain it.

Speaker 3 I'm 25 years old.

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 3 own my own home. I built a construction company.
I make

Speaker 3 about $130,000 a year.

Speaker 3 And I've got a real

Speaker 3 proclivity for building my income, building my business, building my personal wealth over time.

Speaker 1 Great.

Speaker 3 And one of the things I'm really struggling with, and I'm looking for a non-biased opinion, because you know how friends are.

Speaker 3 They're great, but you know, you can only get so much.

Speaker 3 I'm looking for any sort of advice on how to select a partner who's not remotely interested in my position in life.

Speaker 1 Because we have a lot of.

Speaker 2 Are you talking about business partner or romantic partner?

Speaker 1 Romantic partner. Got you.
Your position in life.

Speaker 3 I mean, just at at 25, I'm doing fairly well.

Speaker 2 Tell us what that means.

Speaker 1 What's your net worth?

Speaker 3 Net worth

Speaker 1 like are you saying if i my business net worth or if i were to liquidate all of that you don't have that much my friend if you can't answer that question i listen i appreciate where you're at young man you you said you said you're 25 and you have a proclivity great word by the way yeah wonderful vocabulary i'm a big fan of proclivity uh just used it twice there because i like the way it sounds uh to make a lot of money and all this kind of stuff no you know we don't know that you're 25.

Speaker 1 um i appreciate your confidence but if the question is how do I make sure I find a girlfriend who's not into me for my position in life?

Speaker 1 I go, well, I don't know that I want to find a woman who's not interested in my position because that position in life, the way I'm hearing that is you got to provide.

Speaker 1 Position leads to provision, Jay. Come on.

Speaker 2 Okay, Ken. You're right.

Speaker 1 And so, I mean,

Speaker 1 you're not in a place, my friend, where you're worried about gold diggers unless you're hanging out in the trailer park. Are you dating women that are in poverty situations?

Speaker 3 I try not to, but they pop pop up.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 okay, so listen, this is good. Listen, don't, listen.

Speaker 1 If you are dating, I got to be very careful how I say this, but I'm going to answer.

Speaker 1 I got you here to correct me, but

Speaker 1 maybe I got to say it. No, let me say it.
Okay. I'm trying to, I got to, I'm channeling Stacy right now to make sure my wife is right beside me, and I'm thinking, what would Stacy want me to say?

Speaker 1 Okay, because she's a good woman. If a woman who is in poverty pops up into your dating life, I don't have a problem with that.

Speaker 1 People deserve dignity, and there's lots of great women and lovely women and lovely men who come from poverty. So I'm not saying cancel it out.

Speaker 1 However, if a person from poverty pops up in your dating life, as you begin to date them, you should have some discernment there to go,

Speaker 1 am I a ticket out? Yeah. Or, and so you just have to have some extra judgment and discernment there.
I wouldn't cancel them out, but at the same time,

Speaker 1 I wouldn't necessarily be, you know, hanging out in those areas either. So I'm trying to walk the fence there.
I think it's a problem. I just think this is a problem.

Speaker 1 He doesn't need to be worried about.

Speaker 2 I don't think it is a problem. I think it goes both ways.
The same way you are.

Speaker 2 All that stuff matters, to your point. Your station in life, your work ethic, what you're accomplishing, that's part of the resume.

Speaker 2 You know, the personal resume.

Speaker 2 And so the same way that you have built a a personal resume that people will learn about as they get to meet you, you will learn about their personal resume as you meet them and learn about them.

Speaker 2 And you get to decide who gets the position based off of their personal resume. And so there's nothing wrong with that.
You opened up the call talking about

Speaker 2 this was a strange or weird problem. And I don't think it's strange at all.

Speaker 2 I think it's just part of everyday life when you meet somebody and you get to decide, okay, is this person going to be somebody that I'm going to be friends with?

Speaker 2 Or is this person going to be somebody that I date long term?

Speaker 1 Have you had a lady? You said that this has popped up a few times.

Speaker 1 So, have you had someone that has come from extreme poverty that has dated you and you felt like they were only dating you because you were a meal ticket out?

Speaker 3 Yes, it's happened to me more than once.

Speaker 1 How do you know? How did you know? Tell us, be very specific. How'd you know? When did you know that she was only after you for your money?

Speaker 3 Um,

Speaker 3 it happened a couple of months in, about three months in. Um,

Speaker 3 I noticed at first she was very big on balance

Speaker 3 as far as our personal time and psychological investments. You know, we're able to talk and work things and figure stuff out between us as people.
Okay. But as time goes on, it turns more into

Speaker 3 what kind of life you can provide for me and my future children.

Speaker 3 And there's no reciprocation

Speaker 3 besides physical, which to me is, you know, it's got a value, but

Speaker 1 I'm not sure I understand.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to lie. I'm not sure I understand.

Speaker 2 And I want to understand.

Speaker 1 I agree. You're not being specific enough.

Speaker 2 There's part of it that I think it is part of the conversation. Maybe, maybe, and I don't know, you were there.
I was not there. Maybe she's saying, hey, here's what I'm looking for in life.

Speaker 2 These are what I

Speaker 2 consider gender roles. I would love to be in a relationship where maybe the guy works.
Maybe I stay at home with the kids.

Speaker 2 She could just be sharing sharing that that's something that she's looking for. Am I, did I miss it?

Speaker 1 Or I think she's right. Josh, did she say, I want you to buy me this and buy me that? And I mean, was it very obvious? Or was this just a

Speaker 1 young lady talking about what life might look like?

Speaker 3 In separate instances, it's been both.

Speaker 1 Well, you're worried about stuff you shouldn't be worried about on that.

Speaker 1 Let me put it this way. Jade, when you and Sam got serious.

Speaker 1 You don't want to ask me this? Yes, I do. What were you thinking? Like,

Speaker 1 what were you wondering about, Sam? My exact words were, you got to come correct.

Speaker 2 Those were my exact words, meaning

Speaker 2 I have a high standard of work ethic and what we both do.

Speaker 1 Did you ask him about his professional future and what he thought he was going to do? I asked, I could see it. Okay, but my point is you were interested.

Speaker 2 I was interested.

Speaker 1 I'm like, listen, I'm a go-getter.

Speaker 2 You're a go-getter. Like,

Speaker 2 everything we do, we do 100%.

Speaker 2 Like, that was the standard. It's like,

Speaker 2 if you're going to be around around me, you got to come correct because I'm an intense person.

Speaker 2 And so that was that on that. All right.

Speaker 1 So, so, all right, I'm putting Josh on hold here. I, I said what I said.
What are you, what's your dating do? I think he needs to be in better pools.

Speaker 2 He probably needs to be in better pools. I also think that

Speaker 2 I, and I don't say this to be, there's no salt or shade on this. I do think that he's viewing himself in a light that's a little bit

Speaker 1 puffy.

Speaker 2 Oh, 100%.

Speaker 2 And so I think that if he just kind of chills a little bit,

Speaker 2 everybody's not after him. You're doing well, but you've not like.

Speaker 1 You don't have a proclivity to build wealth yet. You're 25.

Speaker 1 Can I just say that? Yes. I mean, come on, man.
So you're doing well, but relax. Yeah, relax.
Use your discernment and get a good group of friends who can discern on the ladies for you.

Speaker 1 That always helps. This is the Ramsey Show.
We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Triple 888-825-5225 is the phone number.
I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside.

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Speaker 1 What? What? I didn't even know there was such a thing as an early Black Friday.

Speaker 2 So, what, Black Friday is the day after Thanksgiving. Yeah.
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Speaker 1 Total Money Makeover, the OG of money books is on sale now go to ramseysolutions.com slash store to check out all the christmas deals if you're listening on youtube or podcast you can click the link in the show notes for those deals all right sarah's up in phoenix arizona sarah how can we help today

Speaker 1 thank you so much for taking my call you bet what's going on

Speaker 4 so i am curious on your thoughts on once you've paid off your consumer debt my husband and i are 40 we've been married 15 years paid off about a $150,000 in student loans when we first got married.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 4 Now we've got three kids, and I'm just sort of looking at how our expenses keep growing every year as a combination of kids, inflation, and lifestyle creep.

Speaker 4 And just sort of curious on that balance of you know, the intensity from where we started our marriage to the intentionality and how you balance that in a way that's honoring the hard work and being mindful of the future, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 I think that's a great question. So would you consider yourself on baby step five, baby step six? What's the plan? Where are you?

Speaker 4 Four, five, and six. We still have a balance on our mortgage.

Speaker 2 Okay, and you're still putting aside for kids college?

Speaker 1 Yes, I'm still putting aside for kids college.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think there's

Speaker 2 you said all the right buzzwords, which is at this point you're moving from intensity to intentionality, which you're right. And the way that intentionality balances with

Speaker 2 the idea of I still want to enjoy my life, at what point does it become quote unquote lifestyle creep?

Speaker 2 Because lifestyle creep kind of has this negative connotation that if I'm increasing my lifestyle too much, I'm putting myself kind of in a, in a, in a red zone or in a, in a place where I'm not being financially smart, right?

Speaker 2 And so the way I like to think of it is, first off, the reason that we do the baby steps is so that.

Speaker 2 and you get to to fill in the blank on what the so that is so that i can live in a nicer house so that i can uh travel more so that i can go to more of my kids sports games whatever the so that is um

Speaker 2 chances are it does cost more because this is a whole money thing right and so for me where the barrier lies is As long as I'm doing all of the things that would cause me to be a financially responsible adult, it's okay for me to increase my income and therefore increase my lifestyle, right?

Speaker 2 So for you, you're a baby steps walker. I kind of like to filter this through just a general kind of five pillars of personal finance.
Am I a person who keeps and sticks to a budget monthly? Yes.

Speaker 2 Okay, great. Check that box.
Am I a person who is out of debt and values never going into debt again? And I'm putting that and have put that into practice. Yes.

Speaker 2 Am I a person who carries the proper insurances? I've checked all the boxes. I've done all the stuff.
I check my coverage yearly. I carry what I need to.
Okay. I do that check.

Speaker 2 Am I a person who has valued savings and investing for the future? Whether that's emergency funds, whether I'm contributing the right amounts to my investing for the future, right? Check that box.

Speaker 2 And am I a person who prioritizes generosity? If I'm doing those five things, I'm also working on my baby step. Yeah, increase your lifestyle.
Knock yourself out. Have a good time.

Speaker 2 That's what it's about. It's not about I have to limit myself like this all the time, all the time.
Otherwise, what was the purpose? What was the point?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I agree. The only thing I would add to this, Sarah, is I think there's three questions that even now

Speaker 1 I'm constantly asking myself because we've got three teens. One's in college, I got two drivers, I got a third one on the way.

Speaker 1 I mean, I feel like I'm running a garage service, I got so many cars at my house. Um, and I think there's three simple little questions, and this is about intentionality, so maybe this will help.

Speaker 1 Here's three questions: I could do it,

Speaker 1 I should do it, I must do it. So, it's like, could I do it? Question mark.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Should I do it?

Speaker 1 Oh, I got the mm on the other end of the phone. And then, and then must I do it.

Speaker 1 So when I think about things, if it's in the must category, well, then we've got some values that are driving that decision, right? This is the important stuff. If I'm in the should I do this?

Speaker 1 Well, we still got values driving that question, but it's not apparent that it is fundamental. It's just, okay,

Speaker 1 do I do this? Like, you know, I'll tell you. I got one of those right now.
It's a dry sauna, outdoor dry sauna. Okay, that's good.
Should I? I'm in the should I.

Speaker 1 Should I do this? And I'm doing my research, and I don't want to go down the rabbit trail and waste everybody. Walk us through it.
Walk us through it.

Speaker 2 I like this.

Speaker 1 Well, it's an expensive purchase. I mean, it's not a $500 purchase.
It's an expensive purchase. So I'm looking at it going, should we, Stacey and I, should we do this?

Speaker 1 I've got, I got to get a car for Josie, who turns 16 in a a couple weeks. So we're doing the homework on that.

Speaker 1 And, you know, she's not going to be ready to drive right away, but she's going to be close. You start looking through other things.
I got a college kid. Okay.
We're cash flowing a lot of that.

Speaker 1 So I start walking through, okay, that's a

Speaker 1 sizable purchase. So I'm going, should I do this? So I start to weigh, it's got a lot of health benefits.
And I've already gone down that. It's really good for Stacey and I and our health.

Speaker 1 It has all of those positive benefits.

Speaker 1 We've got space for it. I got a space for an outdoor space.
as you know, you've been over the house.

Speaker 1 And I go, okay, it's not going to cramp anything.

Speaker 1 I've got the cash for it.

Speaker 1 It's not going to hurt me.

Speaker 2 And you're still doing all the other things.

Speaker 1 And I'm still doing all the other things. So I'm in that place of going, I'm walking through that even at this stage where I've got the money.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to feel it, but I do feel it. I still go, that's a sizable purchase.
Yes. And do we do it now?

Speaker 1 So then did Stacey and I change our Christmas plans for each other and go, this is what we're going to do. I mean, all I'm saying is I'm using a super simple thing that I like to walk through.

Speaker 1 Could I do it? Yes. Should I do it? Well, we got to wrestle with that.

Speaker 1 And then the must I do it. And I think maybe that'll help, Sarah, with staying in view of your values so that you know if your values are right, your money's going to be right.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And the truth is your values change and get to change throughout this process.
Something that

Speaker 2 would not have been important to you maybe three baby steps ago could become become important to you now and that's also okay um so just a little

Speaker 1 permission to let's say you and sam call us up and go hey let's go on this trip i'm going right to should i oh okay yeah because we have margin in our life that's right that's right could the could is there so but there are times in life where it's going hey i no could yeah nope private jet no can't do it yeah no no yeah could i no the answer is no so um you know sarah i hope that helps you i i think you need to give yourself permission i thought jay did a wonderful job of setting it out but i hope those little questions that just keeps you.

Speaker 1 I think you're worried about you're doing something dumb. And I just don't see that if you've got values aligned with how you spend your money.

Speaker 1 Thank you. I appreciate it.
Yeah. Good, good, good.
I mean, that's, that's, um,

Speaker 1 and we see this a lot, Jade. I want you to share with our audience that's on the front end of this

Speaker 1 of why we got that phone call there because there are a lot of people who are just in baby step one or they're in baby step two and they're just like rice and beans, beans and rice, it's gazelle.

Speaker 2 Well, now sarah's on the other side of that and still dealing with some of that i'm gonna call it uh leftover intensity yeah you put the rubber band on tight when you're on baby step one it's like oh my gosh it's like you're squeezing into a tight pair of jeans i like that if you put a rubber band on your wrist it'll leave a mark it'll leave a market you got to let some time for that skin to heal yeah that's interesting and it's like okay have you ever this is a horrible i'm not going to use this analogy i was going to say it's a horrible analogy but you're like in the tight jeans and then you get in baby step four you know when no one's looking you can let the zipper down a little bit And you can just...

Speaker 1 Listen, I think every man in America identifies with being in the jeans and you went to the buffet one, two, many trips. That's okay.
And you get underneath the table and no one's looking, you just

Speaker 1 a little air. Just a little out.
Just a little breathing room. That top button, just so we go back and get a little more stuff and engraving.

Speaker 2 A little bit more.

Speaker 1 And you know what my theme is during Thanksgiving and Christmas, folks? This is bonus. Eat through the pain.

Speaker 2 You want to know what mine is? What? If it's brown, it's going down.

Speaker 1 There it is, folks. That's why you come to the Ramsey Show.
We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman, and you have joined the conversation about you and your life here on the Ramsey Show. Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number.
We're here to coach up today.

Speaker 1 Sharon is up next in Cleveland, Ohio. Sharon, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hi,

Speaker 5 thank you guys for taking my call.

Speaker 5 So I'm in a bad situation that I can't really get out from under. I'm about $350,000 in debt.
Mainly I have really high car payments.

Speaker 5 I don't have the option to get a loan or anything, so I'm considering a voluntary repo

Speaker 5 or bankruptcy.

Speaker 1 Okay, I want to make sure I heard you right. Did you say $350,000?

Speaker 5 Yes, that does include a house.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 How much of that is the house?

Speaker 5 The house is $153,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. Okay.

Speaker 2 Here's the thing:

Speaker 2 I want to know more about this car because

Speaker 2 I'm never going to tell you that bankruptcy is the way out of this, and I'm never going to tell you that voluntary repossession is the way out of this.

Speaker 2 So let's get our head around the numbers and let's see if we can offer you some better

Speaker 2 solutions. I can't guarantee they won't be painful, but I think that they'll be better than what you're talking about.
So tell us about the car.

Speaker 5 So there's two cars.

Speaker 5 One was for my son, who obviously that didn't work out. So first car payment is $9.92.

Speaker 5 I owe about $49, and it's only worth about $23.

Speaker 1 Okay. Second car is $7.82.

Speaker 2 Wait, before you go on, you said you owe $49 and it's worth what now?

Speaker 1 $23.

Speaker 1 $23.

Speaker 2 What happened that

Speaker 2 caused that steep depreciation? Is it a lot of miles? What's the year?

Speaker 5 It's a 2023 Hyundai, Santa Cruz.

Speaker 5 Interest rate is about 9%.

Speaker 2 And you've been paying minimum payments?

Speaker 2 Where are you getting the value of it? Let me start there. Are you going on Kelly Blue Book, or did some dealer tell you this?

Speaker 5 This was from Edmonds

Speaker 5 and some offers from like the CarMac. They gave me around $23K.

Speaker 1 What would cause this to drop 50%

Speaker 2 in two years,

Speaker 2 less than two years? You said 2022.

Speaker 5 The car is actually at 2023.

Speaker 4 I have absolutely no idea.

Speaker 1 Okay, so Edmonds is private seller. Is that what you looked up there, like Kelly Blue Blucker Edmonds? Did you look at private sale, you selling it to somebody else?

Speaker 5 I believe that value was private sale. Well, maybe not private sale.

Speaker 1 Is it electric?

Speaker 5 I do have it listed too.

Speaker 1 Is it an electric vehicle?

Speaker 1 How many miles you got on?

Speaker 5 About 18,000.

Speaker 2 Something's not right.

Speaker 1 No, I just think your numbers are off.

Speaker 1 Here's what we want you to do so that Jay can keep coaching here. You need to go look Kelly Blue Book, be as accurate as you can on it, and you're looking at private seller value.

Speaker 1 The number seems really low, and that matches up to what a CarMax or another car dealership. They're going to give you way less for the car because they got to build some profit into it.

Speaker 2 Did you roll a lot of other negative equity into it when you got it?

Speaker 5 I did have a negative equity.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
Now we got some more.

Speaker 2 How much did you roll in? I'm just trying to understand.

Speaker 3 Do you remember?

Speaker 5 Honestly, I don't know. I purchased these two cars the same day and they did some fancy stuff.

Speaker 1 Okay. It was fancy.
All right.

Speaker 2 Okay. So tell me about car number two that your son has.
And by the way, how old is your son?

Speaker 5 He is 18. He no longer has possession of the car anymore.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 it's $782.

Speaker 5 My sister who is helping with the payment.

Speaker 1 All right, $782 car payment.

Speaker 1 What's the loan on it?

Speaker 5 $30K.

Speaker 1 And what's it worth?

Speaker 5 This one is, it's only around $12K,

Speaker 5 but there's damage to it.

Speaker 5 So I wouldn't think it would be too much higher.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Is it the type of damage that is it running? Like,

Speaker 2 is it working?

Speaker 5 It does run. It does work.
There are a few mechanical things, but it's mostly just body damage. It was side-swiped.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 2 But it's your name on it, even though your sister is operating it and paying the loan. It's your name on it.

Speaker 5 He's only paying a little bit towards it, but yes, it is under my name.

Speaker 2 Okay. So, and tell me, you said before, like, there's no way I can get a loan.

Speaker 2 There's no way I can get out of this because I would rather you owe another lender $18,000 than owe $30,000 and I would rather you owe another lender $26,000 than owe $49,000.

Speaker 2 Do you see what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 So it's about highly highly understand.

Speaker 5 My credit has tanked. There's been a series of unfortunate things that took place.

Speaker 5 So I don't actually have the the ability to even get a loan at this point.

Speaker 2 Okay, so then in that case, tell us about some of the other debts that you have and then tell us about your income.

Speaker 5 So the house is $150,000. It's a duplex.
I bought it for the sole purpose of having someone help me pay my mortgage.

Speaker 5 So I do have a tenant.

Speaker 5 I have $80,000 in student loans. They're on the deferment.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 5 It wasn't $80,000, obviously, when I graduated.

Speaker 4 Sure.

Speaker 2 But they're not, nothing is due on those right now, right? You're paying almost zero.

Speaker 1 There should be. Okay.

Speaker 5 Correct.

Speaker 1 What else?

Speaker 5 About $8,000 in credit cards, 18 in personal loans, another 10,000 to 12 in medical.

Speaker 5 I recently started working with a non-profit debt management company, and they're handling that, but that's also a very high payment.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I wish you hadn't done that.

Speaker 2 Okay, so the credit cards, personal loans, medical debt, is there anything else?

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So tell me about your working situation. Tell us about your income.

Speaker 5 I make about $75 to $86 with bonuses at my job. I work more than full-time.

Speaker 2 When you say $75 to $86, are you telling me $75 to $86 per year or are you telling me $7,500 per month, $8,600 per month? Tell me, give me your monthly.

Speaker 2 Okay, give me your monthlies.

Speaker 5 Monthly, I'm at about

Speaker 5 do you want take home work bros?

Speaker 2 Take home.

Speaker 5 Take home is

Speaker 5 52.56.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So here's what the owner, there's only a couple of ways to remedy this. The first is you get your income up.

Speaker 1 There's no other way around this.

Speaker 2 And then the second thing is time.

Speaker 2 Okay. So you getting your income up.
I mean, you have a great income now. Don't get me wrong.
I'm not saying that you're like behind the curve or anything like that, but you've got a lot of debt here.

Speaker 2 And the whole thing with the car situation, I mean, I'm going to look for anything almost is better than what you've got yourself in now, truly. Anything to lower this number

Speaker 2 so that you can find some breathing room because paying 992 for one and 782 for another, any way that you can knock that down so you can find some breathing room and get further into this.

Speaker 2 I'm doing it. You know, I'm looking at whatever I can to get a loan for the difference on these cars to get out of them, especially the second one, because you're not even,

Speaker 2 you don't even need that car, right?

Speaker 2 Your son is almost grown now, basically, and he's not driving it anyway. So you got to get out of that, that $18,000.
Find any way to get that that you can come up with.

Speaker 2 The duplex, what's it worth?

Speaker 5 I think the last time I checked it was like $205,000.

Speaker 1 Okay, so there's not much there. $2,000.

Speaker 2 Okay, not much there.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you're going to have to, Ken, I mean, there's no superpower on this.

Speaker 1 Well, I think I know you don't have time to tell us. We're running short on time.

Speaker 1 One of the things I want to do is

Speaker 1 I want to get her a session with a financial coach because there's so much complexity here. So hang on the line and I'm going to have Christian connect you there.

Speaker 1 But what you're going to have to do is you can't assume anything. You go, oh, this happened, this happened, this happened.
I can't get a loan.

Speaker 1 I would be going to every credit union that you can locally go, here's my situation.

Speaker 1 I've got a good paying job. I've got to lower my expenses.
And to Jade's point, you sell these cars.

Speaker 1 And if you can consolidate that loan through them and get those payments lower, number one, that's a raise.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but real talk, though, I mean, with her income, unless she's investing or doing something else after the car payments, I don't know what percentage her mortgage is, but her student loans aren't due at all.

Speaker 1 And so that's

Speaker 1 doable.

Speaker 2 There's still $3,500 left. So if you're not on a budget, you got to get on one.

Speaker 2 But when I look at the $10,000 in medical debt, which you should be settling, the $15,000 in personal loans and the $8,000 in credit cards, there is money here to pay these debts.

Speaker 2 There's something here that we don't know about.

Speaker 1 Challenge yourself. What do you have to do right now to make an additional $30,000 a year that goes to this mess and you can get out of this? Hang on the line.

Speaker 1 We're going to get you a session with one of our coaches and that'll help you a little bit more. This is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show America. Thrilled that you have joined us.
I'm Ken Coleman, and I'm alongside my friend Jade Warshaw. So, so good to have you.

Speaker 1 Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. But before we get back to the phones, we've got today's question of the day, which is always brought to you by our friends at YReFi.

Speaker 1 YReFi refinances defaulted private student loans. Defaulted means when the borrower can't make the required payments.
So if that describes you and your private student loan, contact YReFi.

Speaker 1 They can offer low-fixed rate loan built for you. Go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey today.
today. That's the letter Y, R E F Y.com slash Ramsey.
It may not be available in all states.

Speaker 2 Yeah, today's question comes from Dylan in Montana. He says, I fully subscribe to Dave's philosophy on personal finance, but here's an issue I don't recall being addressed.

Speaker 2 What are your thoughts on 0% financing for cars?

Speaker 1 We've never addressed that one in a while.

Speaker 2 While that's not readily available now, my hope is that it will return at some point. Perhaps with some manufacturers extending the term for 60 months.

Speaker 2 I realize this is debt, but it's cost-free debt, right?

Speaker 1 Oh boy.

Speaker 1 Why don't you handle that one, Jade?

Speaker 2 Well, hey, let me just call out the obvious. If you fully subscribe to Dave's philosophy, then this would not even be on your radar.
So there's holes in that argument. But anyway,

Speaker 2 yeah, at the end of the day, we're talking about risk. That's really all this boils down to.
Let's say the car that that you want is $32,000 and you say, okay, I can get it on a typical term.

Speaker 2 I think right now the average loan term is 69 months, which is ridiculous to be paying six years for something. Really? Yeah.

Speaker 1 69 months? Yeah. That's a thing? Yeah.
Wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the stats right now are the average new car loan is $31,722 with a monthly payment of $545 on an average loan term of 69 months. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 This is where I I need Tums. Yeah.
I need to just like open the bottle and chuck a couple TUMs right down, right down here. Yeah, so this guy's like,

Speaker 2 this guy's like, well, what if I want the same car and I get 0% over the same term or okay, a little bit less, so five years?

Speaker 1 It's free money, right?

Speaker 2 It's free money. But I'm like, okay, think about all that can happen in five years.
And so we're, again, it's really back to the risk situation of, okay, why carry debt A when you don't have to?

Speaker 2 And why carry debt?

Speaker 2 Because when life hits, as it will, you're on the hook for that. So if something were to change with your lifestyle, you still have to make the payment.
And so

Speaker 2 for me, even though you're not paying for something at a premium, in this case, APR interest rate, you're still carrying debt around your head and around your neck that you don't need to have.

Speaker 1 And so for that reason, I'm out.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, speaking of crazy terms, I cannot believe what I have in front of me.

Speaker 1 Folks, this is real.

Speaker 1 This is an actual article I'm holding in my hands. Now, what is it?

Speaker 1 This is the dumbest person in America.

Speaker 1 That's the title.

Speaker 1 This is a headline from Finance, Yahoo, Yahoo Finance.

Speaker 1 Apparently, this gentleman

Speaker 1 made a $1,000 down payment

Speaker 1 to Joe the Car plug.

Speaker 1 Sounds reputable to me.

Speaker 2 Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 That's the dealer's name.

Speaker 2 Joe the Carp. Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 Joe the Carp plug. Okay.
You're going to begin to see how this thing unravels quickly.

Speaker 1 And the deal he agreed to was, Jade, and this is not a typo, I'm assured by Kelly, the producer. This is not a typo.
$590 per month. Wait for it, folks.

Speaker 1 For 27 years.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 Which means he will ultimately pay $191,000

Speaker 1 for a BMW 530i. 530i.
Now, a brand new one, according to BMW's website,

Speaker 1 it's got an MSRP of $58,000. And it gets worse, folks.
Oh, my God. Not only is this moron

Speaker 1 agreed to pay $590 for 27 years.

Speaker 2 Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 The car already has 289,000 miles on it.

Speaker 1 Joe, our board op, about fell out of his chair.

Speaker 1 It's not a typo.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 we actually have real evidence of this. This is not just an article.
We also have a TikTok apparently about this story. Let's roll this and then we'll react to it a little bit more.
Yes, sir. Mr.

Speaker 1 David just saw this song for this BMW 530. Mr.
David, how much did you put down? I don't know that down. Mr.
Joseph, hooked me up. How much is there a month? $590.
All right. How many months?

Speaker 1 We're at Jordan.

Speaker 2 Oh, I am speechless.

Speaker 1 We're celebrating this.

Speaker 2 I am without speechless.

Speaker 1 He's happy as he could possibly be about this decision. I mean, the facts are the facts.
Oh. He's thrilled that he only put $1,000 down.

Speaker 1 Now, that BMW

Speaker 1 at 289,000 miles has a lifespan of about seven weeks, I think.

Speaker 1 Am I right?

Speaker 2 There's nothing about this that makes sense. And there's nothing about this that there's no logic here.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but he's as happy as he can be. Do you see a smile on his face?

Speaker 1 Joe the car plug did me a favor. They should arrest the guy who owns Joe the Car plug.
Isn't there some kind of laws against this? Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, I can't resist because I'm an opportunity cost person. And so I can't resist running numbers on something like this.
Take it away.

Speaker 2 Because we look at this and go, oh, David, with interest, he's ultimately going to pay $191,000, which that alone is shocking. Like, that's a lot of money.
But that's not even the peak.

Speaker 2 That doesn't even scratch the surface of the true opportunity cost here. So a 27, 27 years, I mean, we say it on this show all the time.

Speaker 2 The car payment is what keeps middle class broke, or the car payment truly is what keeps whoever wants a car payment broke, right?

Speaker 2 So because you're locked in, and when you, you, you lock yourself into a five, six year term, in this case, 27 years,

Speaker 2 that is a term of time that you're saying.

Speaker 2 With this money, I will pay my car note. I will not invest it.
I will not do other things. And so that is the opportunity cost that we play here.

Speaker 1 So, but this doesn't even, can I just say this doesn't even make sense? Because I'm in the used car game because I got three teenagers. I've bought, as you know, two cars in the last three years.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Joe, you're a gearhead. I know for a fact that a BMW with 289,000 miles on it, it could be a 2023.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 The most you could probably charge for that is 15,000. That the most, I'm making, that's if it's a 2023.

Speaker 1 And if that's two or three years old, that car's not even worth 10 grand at that kind of mileage on BMWs. So I really think, and I was making a joke, but I think this is illegal.

Speaker 1 Well, like this is, how do you charge this man

Speaker 1 $590 a month for 27 years? This man is paying rent for Joe the car plug. Well, that's what he's doing.

Speaker 1 He's paying the man's lease.

Speaker 2 He's paying the man's lease. I have to believe, and I don't know.

Speaker 2 I don't know how vetted this is because anything's possible on the internet. And so they might, who knows? They might be real.

Speaker 1 They can't be real for you. I'm starting to wonder if this is even real.

Speaker 2 But they did it for the Graham. I believe that.
But just know that if he had taken that same money and invested it over the same term, it's almost a million dollars.

Speaker 2 Literally almost, it's $970,000 that it really is costing him to operate this vehicle. If this in fact is.

Speaker 1 This can't be real. The more I think about this,

Speaker 1 let's round it up to $600 a month. It's $7,200 a year.

Speaker 1 The car itself, this can't, I know this is real.

Speaker 2 I don't think a person could be that clueless.

Speaker 1 I'm told that this is real. This is a real article.
That cannot be real. Are you with me, studio audience? That's absurd.
That is fraudulent. Yeah.
He's being defrauded.

Speaker 1 That's not a word, is it? He might be. Is that a word?

Speaker 2 He's being defrauded, but he also is playing

Speaker 1 a role in this because...

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I don't mind saying anything about it.

Speaker 2 Nobody twisted his arm.

Speaker 1 It doesn't look like to get this. Oh, man, I don't know what to do.
This is a sign of the apocalypse. It's what this is.

Speaker 1 This is a sign of the apocalypse.

Speaker 1 This is a real news article from a reputable thing, and here's here's a TikTok with this guy with a smile on his face like he just won the lottery. And the music, I got five on it.

Speaker 2 That was messed up.

Speaker 1 I didn't even pick up on that. I was listening to the music.
I was like, this is a bothersome.

Speaker 1 I just, the idea, like I literally was just from the question of the day. I was processing, because I don't pay attention to this stuff anymore.

Speaker 1 I was having a hard time processing a 69-month term on a card. Wild.

Speaker 2 Yeah. That's what people are doing.

Speaker 1 That means Rooms to Go must have a 10-year plan now.

Speaker 2 But here's the thing: delinquents.

Speaker 1 They've always got something. They're always the leaders.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 No interest for 99 years.

Speaker 1 College football. And it's like, you can get a sofa today and finance it to the year 3000.

Speaker 1 It's like,

Speaker 1 will I be here?

Speaker 1 Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh.
Rescue us, folks. Yeah, we need help.
All right. More of your calls coming up.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you, America.
This is where we coach you to win in your life. Win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships.

Speaker 1 Alongside my good friend, the incomparable, fabulous, fantastic Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.
And I've got my fall sweater on. That's what I got for you today.

Speaker 2 This is nice. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you very much.
I appreciate that. I just saw it in the camera and I realized, oh, you know, it's kind of cool here in Middle Tennessee now.
It's sweater weather is what I like to do.

Speaker 1 Sweater weather.

Speaker 1 John's going to get us started first in Houston, Texas. John, how can we help today?

Speaker 3 Oh, thank you for taking my call.

Speaker 3 I got myself into a situation. I

Speaker 3 signed a lease for an apartment about three months ago, and I kind of think I bit off more than I could chew.

Speaker 3 Everything was going good at first, but unfortunately, the brakes went out to my car

Speaker 3 and I kind of fell behind on rent. And so I am contemplating whether I should

Speaker 3 break the lease and get a roommate to get my finances under control or

Speaker 3 what would be the next best option.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, give Jade a picture of your finances.
How much do you bring home and how much is this lease and what other debt do you have? Give us a bit of a picture. Okay.

Speaker 3 So what I bring in every year,

Speaker 3 so this is gross.

Speaker 1 Tell me monthly. Tell me monthly.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 2,000.

Speaker 2 Okay, so 43 a year, 2,000 a month.

Speaker 1 Correct. And

Speaker 1 hold on, quick clarification. Is that take-home?

Speaker 3 $2,000 is take-home.

Speaker 1 Okay, gotcha. All right, keep going.

Speaker 3 Okay, and the lease is $8.99 a month.

Speaker 3 There's

Speaker 3 various other charges like water, sewage, all that stuff. So it comes out to like $9.80, $100,000.

Speaker 3 I've kind of looked at kind of like what the

Speaker 3 termination costs would be for this contract, and they talked about a re-letting fee, which is 80% of the $8.99, and then $8.99 for the rest of the

Speaker 3 lease, which comes out to like $7, $8,000.

Speaker 2 How are you getting that? I thought it was $8.99 for the lease plus the half of the lease, so like $4.50.

Speaker 2 Did I?

Speaker 1 What am I missing?

Speaker 3 She said 85%

Speaker 3 of

Speaker 3 the reletting fee and then the rest of the remainder. When I calculated, it came out to a grand existence, what I think a 12-month lease.

Speaker 2 Oh, for the entire thing. I got you.
I got you.

Speaker 2 Okay. So, yeah, that's not an option because you don't have that money.

Speaker 3 Definitely.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So, yeah.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 this is a symptom of a much, much larger problem. My first question when you first started talking was, I wanted to know how far behind? How many months behind are you?

Speaker 3 Well, that's the thing. It's just only actually

Speaker 3 it's only like two two or three weeks.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 3 this happened in October when the breaks went out. I was late.
They say on the contract, you can't be late. I talked to them, let them know about my situation.

Speaker 3 They said, okay, we'll take that payment late. And I said, November is going to be late as well.
Now, you know, this has messed up my paycheck to paycheck, right?

Speaker 3 So they said, we'll take November as well, but now they're saying, okay, December the 1st, you have to be on time.

Speaker 1 If you're not, we're going to go ahead and file for an eviction.

Speaker 1 What do you do for a job?

Speaker 3 I actually work in mental health. Unfortunately, it doesn't pay a whole lot.

Speaker 1 What do you do in mental health?

Speaker 3 I work with people who have chemical dependency issues.

Speaker 1 Okay, and so are you an hourly wage?

Speaker 1 Yes. What is your hourly wage?

Speaker 3 Well, right now it's about

Speaker 3 $20.70 some cents an hour.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm jumping in very quickly because Jade can help you and walk you through this. But you have an income problem in addition to the fact that we know you've signed up.

Speaker 1 You know, you've already admitted it. You signed up for a lease you couldn't afford.

Speaker 1 But you can dig out of this

Speaker 1 and Jade will walk you through the rest of it, debt, whatever. But I'm going to tell you that right now, you can happen to this problem.

Speaker 1 And right now, you're a good man who loves taking care of people and you're just not making a whole lot of money, but you got yourself way over your head.

Speaker 1 And so until you get yourself out of this, you're going to have to work like an absolute madman. And you're an able-body.

Speaker 1 So that may mean swallowing your pride and working the graveyard shift at Walmart, stocking shelves, getting 20 an hour somewhere else.

Speaker 1 You have got to bring in some income to get current and get yourself some breathing room here. But this is going to be hard for a little while.

Speaker 1 I'll hand you to Jade on that, but I wanted to at least make the point that you can work and you should be working. And I mean, every second of the day at this point to get yourself out of this.

Speaker 2 Well, John, how long have you been working? How long have you been in the career that you're in right now?

Speaker 3 uh i actually entered it earlier this year earlier this year and before you entered this career were you doing something that earned you more money or less money no i um made a little far less uh and actually the last four years i was actually in training okay

Speaker 2 where where where i'm struggling with this is um i think that you know how old are you

Speaker 3 I'm 30. I'm 30.
Okay.

Speaker 2 I think that you know that $2,000 a month,

Speaker 2 it's impossible. Right.
I think that you know that. And what, what kind of shook me on this is you're like, okay, back in October, my brakes went out.

Speaker 2 I'm struggling with, man, if that happens, then it's like, okay, I got to go tonight. Like, I got to get to Wendy's tonight and get a job.
I got to go over to Dollar General tonight.

Speaker 2 Like, there's this urgency that I feel like is missing. And then when I'm like, well, how long have you been doing this job? Then I realize, oh, this urgency has been missing for a while.

Speaker 2 And then when you told me that you were earning less before that, there is something missing here.

Speaker 2 And you've got to have a, when the house is on fire, you don't just lollygag around and be like, oh, you know what?

Speaker 1 I think I left a pair of socks upstairs.

Speaker 2 You know what? I think I need to go over here and get these keys off this dress. You run.

Speaker 1 You

Speaker 2 move with a sense of urgency to get to safety. And I think that you got to start moving.
with that sense of urgency because this house has been on fire for a little minute now.

Speaker 1 One quick question on that urgency issue, Jade. Is this a two-bedroom apartment?

Speaker 3 No, this is just a one-bedroom.

Speaker 1 Man. All right.

Speaker 1 I was going to try to get you a roommate real quick, but that's not an option.

Speaker 2 No, I think right now we got to go to work today.

Speaker 1 That's it. I mean, you're literally selling stuff, anything you own.
Right now, income, everything.

Speaker 2 Income. You're selling your bed.
You're selling everything that you have that there's a value on it. You're selling your bed.

Speaker 2 You're getting a couple hundred bucks and you're buying an air mattress for 30 bucks at Walmart and taking the rest and putting it towards this.

Speaker 2 because you got to hit this December 1st deadline to kind of get everything right side up again for you.

Speaker 2 And don't let that trick you into thinking, okay, I'm okay now. Now I'm safe.
No, that was just you getting from upstairs to downstairs. The house is still on fire.
So

Speaker 2 that, I mean, that's what you've got to do. $2,000 is not going to make it work.

Speaker 2 And I understand if you love your career, but then you got to be proactive about adding additional income to it every single month and a lot of it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, for advice for other people that may be in John's shoes here,

Speaker 1 if you want to get into the mental health space and we'll see what a ladder looks like for him going forward.

Speaker 1 But at that point, Jay, this is why we teach percentages of your income that go to housing to give you this kind of,

Speaker 1 to give you this safety net from getting overextended because he should have been renting a little place over some old lady's garage. Facts, 500.
For 400, I was thinking 400. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, because that gets you about 25%.

Speaker 1 And, you know, no one wants to hear that.

Speaker 1 But what's the alternative? You go out and get an apartment going, well, I got a job. I'm doing the thing I want to do.
I'm an adult now. And then you go, oh, I actually can't afford it.

Speaker 1 If anything bad happens in my life, oh, like the brakes going out. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 I mean, this is bad. This Michael Jackson.
So, man, tough stuff.

Speaker 1 Oh, folks, listen to what we teach. Keeps you from doing this stuff.
This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show America. So glad you're with us.
I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside 888-825-5225 is the phone number.
Triple 8-825-5225. We go next to San Jose, California.

Speaker 1 Jeff is there. Jeff, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hi.

Speaker 3 Yeah, me and my fiancé,

Speaker 3 we're we're about a million dollars in debt right now.

Speaker 3 And we kind of,

Speaker 3 most of it's student loan debt, but we still have a million dollars. We just don't know how to really tackle it.

Speaker 1 Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 2 Is this what type of degrees did you guys have?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 We're both dentists, so I guess that's a good thing, kind of.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, I can tell you're fired up by that.
Bless your heart. Yes.

Speaker 2 Are you making money? Like, what are you guys making every year?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 what we're told when we go into this is we'll be able to pay it off, don't worry.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 3 We make about

Speaker 3 probably average $170 a year.

Speaker 1 That's what you guys are actually paying yourself?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 3 Before taxes.

Speaker 1 Before taxes. Oh, not 100%.

Speaker 1 170 gross. And are you separate practices?

Speaker 3 We are currently, but we're probably going to group in together and just try to grow, I guess.

Speaker 2 Did you say 170 each or combined?

Speaker 1 Okay, okay. 170 gross each.
That's not bad. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And you're living in, okay, well, San Jose is expensive.

Speaker 1 That's an expensive part of the country. What is your debt? Break it down for Jay.
Let's go you first. You're the one on the phone, and you're not married yet.
So what's your debt?

Speaker 3 About,

Speaker 3 let's see, $450,000 right now

Speaker 3 in all student loan.

Speaker 2 Okay, and no other debt?

Speaker 3 Luckily, we're both pretty good on that side.

Speaker 1 Okay, pretty good or good? Good.

Speaker 1 How long have you been practicing?

Speaker 3 About a year now.

Speaker 3 We just came out of school. It's just kind of a nervous thing to be a million dollars in debt.
Just

Speaker 1 hope soon. No, no.
Listen, brother, this is real. And

Speaker 1 I, oh, this makes me so mad on your behalf. Not mad at you, but people are just selling this, and now you're facing it.

Speaker 1 It's like staring down the barrel of a gun right now I can feel it all over you and and well here's the thing I'm asking about you're only a year into this

Speaker 1 based on I don't know if they teach you any business skills probably not but do you have unfortunately they don't they don't any sense uh of of of how big your practice is uh in in in its first year are you small for first year are you medium sized you have any sense of that

Speaker 3 that's i would say we're probably small, getting to medium, hopefully, by the end of this, by the end of this build.

Speaker 1 Do you know any dentists at all that are very successful?

Speaker 1 Huh?

Speaker 3 Yes, I do.

Speaker 1 Are you in contact with them on a regular basis to go, how did you grow your business?

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 1 You need to be. I'm not.
You need to be. I'm not kidding you.
Jay's going to give you some financial advice, but I was leading you this because let me tell you something.

Speaker 1 They don't teach you how to run a business, they teach you how to take care of teeth.

Speaker 1 But taking care of teeth is not enough to be a successful dentist. You have got to know how to get people in the chair.
Yeah, that's right. And I want you on the phone.

Speaker 1 I'm going to give you as a gift of mine, Christian, at the end of this call. I want to give him the proximity principle.

Speaker 1 It's worth a quick read. You can get the audio book if you want that.
We'll give you whatever version you want. But I want you to be in touch with successful dentists.
And I mean successful.

Speaker 1 And I want you telling them,

Speaker 1 I need your best advice. What would you say to me where I'm at right now about growing my business? And try to replicate this with two or three other successful dentists.

Speaker 1 Get all that feedback in one bucket and start doing it. Because the quicker you grow this business, the more you can pay yourself.

Speaker 1 And the more you pay yourself, the easier it is to do what Jade's going to tell you. I just wanted to give you that.
You've got to be like, and she's got to be the same way.

Speaker 1 If you guys combine practices, this can't be like, we're married and we have to, no, you both are like, you're the most,

Speaker 1 I don't want to say desperate dentist we've ever seen, but it's like you got to get creative in the community and be competitive so that everybody's coming to you to get their teeth cleaned.

Speaker 1 Okay, can I ask a question?

Speaker 2 And this is both to Ken and you, Jeff. So you, you come out of dental school, you've got all the goods to be able to practice.
Are you working for someone else or you started your own thing?

Speaker 3 I'm working for someone else but we're working on a contract to hopefully partner

Speaker 1 and is that going to cause you to have to go into more debt because that's what i i'm trying to get a sense of what your next plan is because i don't want you to go into more debt and that's why we're trying to hold off because no bro okay i'm doing more debt no you can't you gotta practice no you gotta do your own practice man i thought that's what we were talking about You can't go into debt.

Speaker 2 It's not worth it. No.
Like,

Speaker 2 you got to work for someone else until you can afford to do whatever the next step is.

Speaker 1 Is your income fixed, though, after all that big speech I gave? Is your income fixed? Or are you able to go recruit new patients and get some of that?

Speaker 3 No, not fixed.

Speaker 1 So you can benefit from hustling like I told you to do. Yes.
All right. Okay, that's good news.
That's all I was trying to get at.

Speaker 2 And I don't want you to go into any more debt until this is cleaned up. Because again, what you're realizing now is true.

Speaker 2 Yes, you have agency over this, but there's no guarantees and there's no guarantees at how quickly this will go. And so, going into further debt, I would not advise that.

Speaker 2 Looking at the numbers, the hard part for me is you are in an expensive area. What are you paying? Like, what's the housing situation? Are you renting? Do you own a place? What is it?

Speaker 3 We're gonna

Speaker 3 be owners because it doesn't, it almost doesn't make sense to rent because then we're just throwing that

Speaker 1 in the map. What are you doing right now?

Speaker 2 What's the situation now?

Speaker 3 About $4,500 a month for your place.

Speaker 2 Or are you guys together already?

Speaker 1 Together. You're already.

Speaker 3 It'll be $4,500. Yep.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 To rent, but to buy it's the same.

Speaker 2 Yes, but you're going into debt to get it. You're adding more debt to your name.

Speaker 1 We will be. Yes.

Speaker 2 And you're tied to that. Like you got to pay it.
And now you're adding expenses to. your life as well.
You can't afford to do that. You need to be living as cheaply as possible.

Speaker 2 And if it's the same price per month, it's not really the same price because your complex or whatever is paying for yard and garbage and all those things.

Speaker 2 So I don't want to add weight to you of having to replace an AC or having to replace a roof or having to, you see what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So that's or adding insurance, you know, all that stuff is really expensive. And so I would continue to rent.
You're not throwing money down the drain.

Speaker 2 You are buying yourself time until you can truly afford to buy.

Speaker 2 So please promise me your homework coming off this call is to promise me that you won't go into debt into this this practice right now and that you will not buy a home right now because that would add insult to injury.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to throw in here, I'm going to challenge you to get a much, much better rent situation. Just try.
Find a place over an old lady's garage.

Speaker 1 I say that all the time, but I'm telling you, I don't think you guys should be paying anywhere near $4,500 a month. Not now.
You guys are so broke.

Speaker 1 You need to be, you almost need to be staying in a place where they're paying you. Jeff,

Speaker 2 you're going to have to fight. Jeff, you're going to have to fight hard because the truth is you guys have got these shiny degrees.

Speaker 2 You're in a great profession where there's the potential to make a lot of money.

Speaker 2 And the people around you, probably the people that you're working with, they're coming in with their Tahos and their Cadillacs and their Teslas. And they get expensive salads and juices for lunch.

Speaker 2 You don't do that. You eat lean cuisine and you drive a Ford Taurus.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I would prescribe a lot of fasting for this couple.

Speaker 1 It's the new craze. It's a biblical principle.
And I think it's got some financial advantages here. Y'all need to try fasting three days at a time.

Speaker 1 You're going to look great, but you can't even afford to buy cold cuts. Yeah.
Carl Budding. Do you remember Carl Budding?

Speaker 1 I don't know. Listen, Jeff, I don't know if you remember when I was coming up.

Speaker 2 The cheapest cold cuts you could buy were Carl Budding.

Speaker 1 We're older than these youngsters.

Speaker 1 But in all seriousness, Jeff, listen.

Speaker 1 You have got to reduce your living expenses right now. That's one of the biggest raises that you could give yourself.

Speaker 1 So I'd be, as soon as this rental term is up or whatever's going on i would be looking to slash those costs i mean big time

Speaker 1 uh okay if i even if i got a driveways at this point i'd rather pay gas you know y'all ride together uh it's called public transportation everything's on the table now right jay everything you get you a bus pass it's on and popping

Speaker 1 it's the truth man

Speaker 1 like and by the way you're brown bagging it and you're recycling the bag oh yeah do you know what i mean that thing's gonna be all crazy.

Speaker 2 You rinse out the Ziploc bag and you got to dry it out and use it again.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like y'all put the whoa and broke. I mean, yikes, this is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.
Jade Warshaw is alongside. You know, we were talking during the break.

Speaker 1 Today about some of the calls we've had so far on the show today and

Speaker 1 we keep coming back to the same thing. People get into tough financial situations largely because they have no budget at all.
And because they have no budget at all,

Speaker 1 they have no idea when they make a decision for too much rent, no idea, what the real impact is. So, the best way to make the most of your money is by creating, say, good to a budget.

Speaker 1 Every dollar makes it simple to plan. Spending, track expenses, save for what matters most to you.
And can I just say, keeps you out of traps. Yes.
Because you know what you actually have coming in

Speaker 1 and what's going out, and you're not susceptible to shiny things or things that are going to hurt you.

Speaker 1 Keep your pulse on your spending by downloading every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play, or you can click the link in our show notes if you're listening on YouTube or our podcast.

Speaker 1 All right, John is up next in Dallas, Texas. John, how can we help today?

Speaker 3 Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. You bet.

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 kind of in a situation right now,

Speaker 3 job searching, setting up interviews,

Speaker 3 but we're getting towards the end of the year, right?

Speaker 3 And I work

Speaker 3 in an industry where I guess bonuses are pretty much guaranteed at the end of the year, even though I don't bank on them at the end of the year.

Speaker 3 I'm setting up these interviews. I'm due up for an end-of-year review of my current job.

Speaker 3 I'm pretty,

Speaker 3 I've taken the should I quit my job quiz.

Speaker 3 And it's actually, you know, pulled me out

Speaker 3 in a wrong role, wrong place. Okay.

Speaker 3 Those were the results.

Speaker 1 Good.

Speaker 1 So the answer is yes, you should quit your job when your results are wrong role, wrong place, unless you raise your hand and your leader or other leaders go, we see that, and we'd like to get you the right role.

Speaker 1 But when you get the wrong place,

Speaker 1 that still may not change it. So let's just keep going with the question.
So what is your question on this?

Speaker 3 Well, I mean,

Speaker 3 with the bonus, I guess, is, you know, I'm expecting usually, you know, $5,000 to $10,000 at the end of the year is what I'm due up for. And I don't know when I'm going to get a job offer.

Speaker 3 I'm pretty confident in these interviews that I've got coming up here in the next week that I'll. I'll have an offer in my hands before the bonus is due and probably before my end of year review.

Speaker 3 I'm just wondering how to navigate this situation where I feel that I'm owed this bonus that I've, you know.

Speaker 1 And what makes you feel that sense of

Speaker 1 I am owed this bonus? What makes you feel that?

Speaker 3 Well, I just feel, well.

Speaker 1 This is not a difficult question. I know what the answer is.
I want you to say it, though.

Speaker 1 Okay. Why do you feel that you're owed this bonus at the end of this year?

Speaker 3 It just feels like I'm leaving money on the table.

Speaker 1 No, that's not the right answer. Let me ask you a couple questions.
Are you doing a good job for these folks?

Speaker 3 At my current job? Yeah. Yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Are you giving it your best, even though you know it's not where you're supposed to belong to? Are you giving it your best?

Speaker 3 Yep, absolutely. All right.

Speaker 1 So let me re-ask the question. Why do you feel like you deserve your bonus?

Speaker 3 Yeah, because I work hard for it.

Speaker 1 Yes. All right.
Ding, ding, ding. All right.
Jay, tell him what he's won. Some confidence.
Yeah. All right.
So, John, I led you into that because

Speaker 1 let me me just tell you, I know what the question is, so I'm going to jump ahead. Okay.

Speaker 1 First of all, I appreciate that you believe that you're going to have an offer before

Speaker 1 your year-end review and bonus. But the reality is, you don't know that.
I don't know that. And Jay doesn't know that either.
So I would keep walking forward.

Speaker 1 You are not doing anything unethical by searching for other jobs.

Speaker 1 Nothing dastardly and dark and unethical, nefarious, great word. There's nothing wrong with what you're doing.
Now, let's just say that you do get an offer

Speaker 1 before your year-end meeting and your bonus.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 they say they want you to start

Speaker 1 first of the year.

Speaker 1 What are you going to do?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you do. I don't know.

Speaker 1 What are you going to do?

Speaker 1 Do you deserve that bonus for the work you've done this year?

Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. So, John, what are you going to do if the start date is after the first of the year? What are you going to do?

Speaker 3 Come on out of.

Speaker 3 Get my bonus?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Because here's the deal. Here's the deal.
First of all, this isn't. the normal question that we get.
It's just not for Jade and I to tell you what you should do.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to walk you into a situation where you are thinking clearly because you've got two strangers who we don't have any dog in this fight.

Speaker 1 But if in fact the bonus is based on the work you've done for this organization this year, then get your bonus.

Speaker 1 If you don't feel comfortable with that,

Speaker 1 then walk before the annual's up. I don't think there's a right or wrong here because the bonus is based on the work you've done for them to this point.
If I'm understanding this correctly.

Speaker 1 Jay, do you have any kind of head tilt on that? No, not at all. So, you know, I just don't

Speaker 1 think that you're as certain as you think you are.

Speaker 3 I think where my concern comes from is what people think of if I do leave after the fact.

Speaker 3 And then, you know, I mean, I like the people I work with and the industry I'm in, like, you know, connections and like, you know,

Speaker 3 I just think right now with that change, like, I don't want

Speaker 3 people to be like, oh, that John guy, you know.

Speaker 1 Right. And I appreciate that.
But, John, is accepting a bonus and then a bonus for work you've done and then leaving, is that unethical?

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 2 It's just called planning.

Speaker 1 Is it just planning? One more question, John. Is it illegal?

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 1 All right, then.

Speaker 1 Then I don't give a crap what anybody thinks about me taking the money that I've earned. You can think all the things you want to, and I'm going to tell them to go pound sand.

Speaker 1 Kick rocks. Kick rocks.
Listen,

Speaker 1 here's the other thing. You're a good guy, John, but

Speaker 1 this is about some manufactured guilt that you've got put up in your head because you're a good person. And I don't think that if this scenario plays out this way, you get to choose.

Speaker 1 You get to choose because the bonus is not a signing bonus. The bonus is on work that you've done this year, and you're not stealing any money from the company.

Speaker 1 So there may be people who take issue with Jade and I on that.

Speaker 2 I don't think anybody would even think that you, John.

Speaker 1 Well, first of all, they got too many other things going on with their life. Yeah.
You're leaving for a better opportunity. They don't like you because of that.
Guess what?

Speaker 1 Those aren't people I want to do life with. Also true.

Speaker 1 I can tell you this right now, and this is a true story.

Speaker 1 If me or Jade leaves Ramsey Solutions, I can promise you that me and Jade will be friends with each other after this place because I'm for her. She's She's for me.
Yes.

Speaker 1 We're friends outside of this place.

Speaker 2 Our spouse, like, and I'd have no thought of, I wonder if he tried to stay longer to get a bonus.

Speaker 1 I would be like, if Jade came in and said, I got this great opportunity and I'm going, I'd go,

Speaker 1 two things. I would go, I'm going to miss you around here.
And then I'd go, go, girl. That's the absolute truth.
So I'm only bringing that up to say that's who you know are your actual work friends.

Speaker 1 People that would

Speaker 1 badmouth you because you took a good opportunity for you. Yeah, that's not a friend.
Well, that doesn't even make sense to me. I agree.

Speaker 2 Yeah, 100%. I think you're overthinking this

Speaker 2 greatly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, John, this may not even be a problem. You know what I hope happens?

Speaker 1 I hope that these interviews go well and you get a job offer late in the year and they pick the start date and it's not until mid or late January. Ding, ding.
And you cash the bonus and

Speaker 1 everybody's right with the world. And then the people that like you and value you, they're going to go, way to go, John.
Good for you, pal.

Speaker 1 Are we still getting together for pickleball on Wednesday night? You know, or whatever. I think that's the play here.
So you're a good man.

Speaker 1 I walked you through that because when there's guilt, Jade, we've got to go, why is there guilt? And there should only be guilt when it's unethical or illegal. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Or mean-spirited. Yeah, none of that was there.

Speaker 2 None of that was there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, John, you're a good man, as evidenced by how you handled that. So I hope you get a fat bonus.
I hope it's not a jelly of the month club like Clark Griswold got.

Speaker 1 That's so fun. Although, cousin Eddie said it was the gift that keeps on giving.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.
I'm joined in studio with,

Speaker 1 or by rather, Jade Warshaw, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 All right, let's see. We've got our

Speaker 1 Ramsey Network app question, and this is from Gabriel. He asks, can you really win money with apps like Bingo Winner and Mr.
Beast's new app, or is it a scam?

Speaker 1 Also, I was wondering if Acorns and Robin Hood

Speaker 1 are good investment options.

Speaker 1 I'm 50 years old. I don't know what bingo winner is, and I barely know who Mr.
Beast is. So I'm unqualified to even answer this question because I don't even know what that means.

Speaker 1 Did they win money with their apps? I don't have the foggiest idea.

Speaker 1 Anybody in there?

Speaker 1 Anybody?

Speaker 1 Kelly, do you know what they're talking about? I have no idea.

Speaker 2 The last game I played was Words with Friends, and there was no

Speaker 2 option to win money. So I'm guessing it's one of these apps, like a candy crutch.

Speaker 1 The only app that I play in is a fantasy football, and that has nothing to do with any of this. That's just me.

Speaker 1 Can I give a hot take? Yes, please. Bail me out because I don't know how to answer this question.
All right.

Speaker 2 This is controversial. And I own that.

Speaker 1 Oh, boy, I am here for this.

Speaker 2 I'm going to get you for this. I feel like if you have time to play games on your phone,

Speaker 2 something's wrong. Like, who has, like, if you're out working and crushing it and taking care of your family, you don't have time to play games on your phone.

Speaker 1 I have zero problem with this. This is not controversial to me.
And to put money into it, like, money?

Speaker 1 I have no game apps on my phone. So

Speaker 1 I feel like I'm in Jade's good, good stead right now.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, I just, I can't understand that. I can't.

Speaker 2 Watch a show, like, watch a show with your spouse or read a book, but spend money. Have a conversation, but to spend money on on a game inside your phone that's called bingo winner? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm going to go ahead and say that I don't know if it's a scam, but you should not be spending your time on it. There's no ROI on your time, and I'll bet there's not much ROI on the money.
No.

Speaker 1 And then I was wondering if Acorns and Robinhood are good investment options.

Speaker 1 Robinhood is an investment platform.

Speaker 1 We are very clear at Ramsey Solutions what our investment strategy is. I'll hand it to my colleague to give a very quick, give a 60-second investment strategy.
That would be our answer to any of this.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't like these apps because they really, they enforce, they're really more about trading and the idea of I'm putting a little bit here, but I can move it at any time.

Speaker 2 And that's not our strategy. We are long-term investors.
We are people who dollar cost average. We are people who set it and forget it and keep it there.

Speaker 1 for a long period of time.

Speaker 2 And so that's why I don't like these apps because they don't promote that.

Speaker 2 So I would invest with my 401k through my job, or I'd be a part of a brokerage and go by Roth IRA.

Speaker 1 I got to confess, I just put the old readers on. Graphic.
Look at the graphic on that thing. I just typed in bingo win app, and boy, talk about getting me in trouble.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Anything that looks like that

Speaker 1 is designed to suck the brain right out of your head. Yeah, it is.
That's my ruling on that.

Speaker 2 It looks like it's designed to keep you addicted, whatever it is.

Speaker 1 Let me tell you what I know. Successful millionaires aren't spending a lot of time on bingo win.
There you go. Now I've got a ruling.
Okay, now we can move on. Move on.
Goodness. Wow.

Speaker 2 That was something, wasn't it?

Speaker 1 I'm never getting that time back. Neither are you.

Speaker 1 Matthew is up in Austin, Texas. Matthew, how can we help?

Speaker 3 How are y'all doing?

Speaker 1 Well, we're better now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're glad you're here. We're thrilled about your question.
What is it?

Speaker 3 You sound like you always got it together, son. Just need your help thinking, I'm supposed to get married here in a couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 Congrats.

Speaker 3 Thanks there.

Speaker 3 But yikes, kind of.

Speaker 3 And it has mainly to do with kids. I've got kids and how my new wife interacts.

Speaker 3 I guess the question being, how much does my new wife have say-so into how I raise my kids, spend money on my kids, and that type of thing? Because

Speaker 3 I'm I'm really kind of struggling with it.

Speaker 1 All right, real quick question because my colleague is loaded up, ready to go.

Speaker 1 I want to know this. How long have you two been dating?

Speaker 1 Two years. Two years.
And in the two years,

Speaker 1 has there been moments of tension

Speaker 1 based on her maybe stepping into some situations that the kids weren't really cool with or you weren't cool with? Or have there been some comments?

Speaker 1 I'm just giving you what I mean when I say moments is have there been several moments of tension that lead to this concern

Speaker 1 there's enough I knew the answer to that

Speaker 1 yeah my friend

Speaker 1 yeah I would just say this I this needs to be settled in premarital counseling stat how old are the kids immediately

Speaker 1 they're not young and so I got two in college I have one that's a teenager well the two in college that's a non-factor she doesn't get to say anything about that and how old's a teenager teenager?

Speaker 3 She's 16, but for example, like when the subject comes up,

Speaker 3 and I don't like saying this, and I know it's probably wrong, but I say I'm a dad first, if you make me choose. Is that a wrong thing to say?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because you're treating it like she's expendable. And technically, now I know this is different.

Speaker 2 I am going to step lightly on this, but typically when you get married, it's the marriage first.

Speaker 1 That's why I said what I said.

Speaker 2 And then it's the kids. Now, also, traditionally, the person you're married to is the person you've had children with.
So it's easier to make that statement. And

Speaker 2 I want to hang out there. It is easier to make that statement when that's the case.
In your case, I don't think it makes it any less true, but I think it makes it more difficult to stand on that.

Speaker 1 I agree. I agree.
I'm going to default to you called us because you've got some real fear.

Speaker 1 And I'm glad you called us. If for no other reason than then I'm telling you, as a guy who went through premarital counseling

Speaker 1 and I've been married 26 years, long enough to know that had Stacey and I not been on the same page about the major things,

Speaker 1 I don't know that we're here.

Speaker 2 Same.

Speaker 1 Same.

Speaker 1 You know, and so I'm just saying that, Matthew,

Speaker 1 you need to invest time and money into premarital counseling to sit with a professional therapist and get this stuff out on the table. Like, you've got to say, she has created this tension here.

Speaker 1 I feel like she stepped over here. She needs to be able to say, I didn't like it when you said I'm a dad first.
Like, we got to get this all out before we lock in.

Speaker 1 And then there's the kids' side of this, too.

Speaker 1 There is the kids' side of it, but they got to solve it between the two of them first. You got to know what life is going to look like day one.

Speaker 1 Now, we manage those decisions after that.

Speaker 3 She's nice to my kids. That's not it.
But we're kind of different when things come up like, well, I go,

Speaker 3 she's like, well, if they're 22, they're going to be on their own. Like, I'm like, well, yeah, but I sure hope so.
But what if something happens and they need to move back in?

Speaker 3 You know, that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 And again,

Speaker 3 those things come up. Or

Speaker 3 are you going to pay for their master's degrees too instead of us going to Hawaii for vacation?

Speaker 1 I'm like, well, wait a minute. So, yeah, she's got to realize that there's a whole life here and there's other people.

Speaker 2 These are good.

Speaker 2 She's marrying into the family, not just you. And that's the case with anybody.
You marry into the family, you marry into the situation, whatever it is. So I think that you guys, Ken is right.

Speaker 2 There's a lot that must be discussed before this happens.

Speaker 1 And Matthew, look. I only got two weeks.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. Okay.
And you know what?

Speaker 1 Is this a big fancy wedding when we got a lot of people coming and a lot of money being spent?

Speaker 3 No, but

Speaker 3 I can't move an ex not moving him.

Speaker 1 You know what?

Speaker 1 I appreciate Matthew. He's going.
Listen, Ken, I know where you're going, pal. I don't want to walk down that path.

Speaker 1 I would. I would.
I would press pause.

Speaker 2 I would, because what I don't want, I would never want you to feel like you don't have a choice or like once the wheels are in motion, you can't, you know, put a wood stick in it and grind it to a halt.

Speaker 2 You can. You have choices still.

Speaker 2 You have a lot less choices once you say I do.

Speaker 1 I I agree. I'd get a session in at least and talk about these majors.
I really would before the wedding.

Speaker 1 But can I also say that if she says, hey, are you going to pay for their master's degree or are we going to go to Hawaii? The answer is,

Speaker 1 where is my grass skirt? That's what the answer is. The kids can pay for their master's degree.
Go with mama to Hawaii, man. Aloha.
Come on.

Speaker 2 I thought you were going in a different direction.

Speaker 1 No. The kids need to pay for their own master's degree.
I'm glad you did. I'm glad you're in the middle of the day.
This is the Ramsey Show.