You Don’t Have to Stay Broke

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This is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their work, and their relationships.

We're so excited to have you with us today.

Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number: 888-825-5225.

Alongside the lovely Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman.

You ready to go, partner?

I'm ready, partner.

What a good day.

It's a good day.

Lacey joins us first in Jacksonville, Florida.

Lacey, how can we help?

Yes, I'm just trying to get advice.

I'm kind of stuck financially.

I purchased my home about $400,000.

beginning of 2024 with the interest rates.

It's not really affordable.

I thought that I could refinance,

but it's really

I make a good salary, but I'm kind of living paycheck to paycheck, unable to pay the debt that I have

is kind of just there hanging around, not going anywhere.

And I just want to get out of this house or I don't really have a

solution to

remedy this

poor financial decision that I made for myself.

Okay.

Lacey, how much is your house payment every month?

Uh

3,100.

3,100.

And how much are you bringing home?

After taxes, I bring home about,

let's see,

56.

Oh, my gosh.

$100.

Yeah, yeah.

You can't afford this house.

I mean, how, yeah, I mean, that leaves you, yeah, $2,000-ish $2,000-ish dollars per month.

How much are your debt payments on everything else?

Usually over $1,000.

My car note is about $400 because I put down about $15,000 on my car, so I owe about $19,000.

And then slowly, you know, throughout the last couple of years, I used credit cards here and there.

But when I initially purchased the home, I didn't have any credit card debt.

I did do an FHA mortgage, so I I do have PMI.

But yeah, it was definitely a poor financial.

I just, I wanted a newer home and

I wanted a private office space.

And I don't know, you know, I've looked at foreclosure, short sale,

but the home's kind of, you know, a lot hasn't been taken off of,

you know,

besides my down payment because of how much is going towards interest.

So, you know, it's still about about $365.

For sure.

Well, and I'm just wondering, even with your car payment and other debt, I mean, you probably only have $1,000 to do everything, Lacey,

to eat and to pay your bills.

I mean, electricity and all of it.

Are you going into credit card debt every month to keep just your basics afloat?

Yeah, basically.

And then the cycle is vicious because, you know, I paid the payments and then, you know, I'm broke, you know, within a week or less after I'm paid I just want to ask the obvious are you single

I am single I am why did you pause

is there something else we don't know yeah there's something there what's what what were you pausing about well I do have my boyfriend

I let him move in with me but I don't know how long term that's going to be and I don't really rely upon that and his income is substantially less so I don't really count

is he is he paying anything

he does pay you know about 25 to 30 percent but it's not enough to give me reprieve or to really make a dent in

the you know what's on my plate everything's in my name and no no I get that and I'm not sure we would never suggest otherwise I just I don't know why I decided to ask that.

I had an inkling, but the point is, is he needs to be,

if he's the roommate, I don't care what your relationship status is, he needs to be doing more than that, Rachel.

Am I right?

Yeah, I mean, 25% in the short term, but I mean, you gotta get out of this house.

Yeah, I would put this house up for sale.

Yeah, that's the play.

Take whatever lumps you're gonna take on this, but you gotta remove this.

Yeah, and I would just go rent, Lacey.

I would not be a homeowner right now because your finances are all over the place.

You have, so you have a $19,000 car loan.

What's the credit card debt do you have?

How much?

About twenty thousand total i added it up okay what other debt is there

well there's student loan debt um how much is that forbearance it's about a hundred thousand total where'd you get your degree

um nursing

consolidated yes okay why aren't you doing overtime yeah

well i um i work for a private sector right now um but i do do have, I'm about to start a second job to do

side nursing.

Great, but by the way, that's what you've got to do.

I just want to throw that in real quick, Rachel.

I know I interrupted, but with your nursing skill, you have got to be working like a crazy woman right now to get the rest of this debt.

Forget the house part, but we've got to clean up the house and then the rest of the stuff that you've got to, there's no life for you.

You are using a very valuable skill to be making as much money as possible.

And by the way, we've had, I remember a debt-free screen, Rachel, it was probably over a year ago, and it was a travel nurse, and she paid off hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

And she just worked like an absolute maniac.

So I just want to give you that, Lacey.

Sorry, Rachel, I know you

did for how long.

What's that?

For how long?

She did it for about two and a half years.

It was a short amount of time.

Yeah.

I mean, I would be looking into some creative solutions just to get your head above water, Lacey.

Do you know how much the house is worth right now?

Because that's the thing.

It's worth about $385,

and I owe about $370 on it because

much hasn't gone away.

So I think that I'm going to come out of negative.

Yeah, it may be a little bit negative,

but I would rather do that and free up $3,100 a month.

Now, you'll have to pay rent somewhere.

But even if you can find a place for $1,800, right?

I mean, like, it just, this starts to free up.

Well, if you're shacking up with a boyfriend, he needs to pay half.

Am I wrong about that?

No, no, you're not.

not.

Okay, I just wanted to make sure.

It may not be long-term because it's not really that beneficial to me.

Yeah.

What?

He's not?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, kick him to the curb.

Why do we, you have no life right now.

You're working so hard.

We don't have time for a boyfriend.

Yeah, I'd kick him to the curb.

He's a, listen, he's a financial deadbeat anyway.

I know.

I mean, come on.

Let's be honest.

Any dude worth his weight and salt would have said, I'm going to pay half, babe.

Right.

But no, he's, he's, he's freeloading off of you to the tune of 25%.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Did you say major turnoff?

Yeah.

Yes.

I love that.

That's great.

Yeah.

So Lacey, that, yeah, this house is killing you.

Okay.

And I know you know that, but that's exactly what I would do.

I would sell it

hopefully as soon as possible.

I mean, obviously, you don't want to be.

You don't want to be too urgent because you don't want to like sell low, but get a great real estate agent.

If you go to ramseysolutions.com and check out our ELPs, we have real estate agents all across the country and get someone who is good at this.

This is what they do.

They sell houses.

They sell a lot of houses.

And you may take a small loss, but that is going to be so worth it because it's going to free up your income.

And then you have to start attacking this debt.

But in the meantime, Lacey, make sure food, shelter, utilities, transportation is current.

Don't get behind on the house.

Make sure those things are current.

And then you got to step up with the income and you got to pay this debt off.

Yeah, you have a good two, three, four-year journey ahead of you, but but

but I think it's bright, and I think your future is bright, and you can do this.

It's just some hard, big decisions you have to make with the house and Ken's

advice.

I want to sum it up: two big decisions.

We're kicking the boyfriend out, and then we're listing the house.

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All right, let's go to Angela, who's joining us in Illinois.

Angela, how can we help today?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my phone call.

So, I'll give a short scenario of kind of what happened.

So, I'm a 36-year-old female, and my fiancé passed on a motorcycle accident about a month and a half ago or so.

Oh my gosh, Angela.

Angela, I'm so sorry.

My goodness.

Thank you.

That's so drastic.

How long were you guys together for?

About eight years.

And so,

yeah.

And so being three weeks from us getting married, we set ourselves up for like a very strong financial future,

just like if anything were to ever happen.

So I received his life insurance policy.

And so I'm kind of in this, like, I didn't expect him to lose him this early in our journey together.

And so I'm trying to find out at 36 years old and his life insurance policy was $301,000 and some change of that.

And after all of our debt is paid, I'm sitting on a chunk of about $120,000.

Okay.

I make about $71,000 before taxes.

I'm going to be getting a Social Security check for my son that we had together for

essentially, you know, his Social Security.

And then

I have not had a conclusive amount yet, but they had estimated somewhere between $900 to $2,100

estimated per month.

And because we weren't married, I don't get like a, you know, a part of that.

But I, like I said, to be 36 years old, I find myself in a position that I never really anticipated, right?

And in terms of like

he's five.

Okay.

So

my heart is kind of telling me I'd like to build a generational wealth for us and then for him.

And so I've been looking at like compound interest of that type of thing.

And then everybody else is kind of like persuaded this idea of estates and what I should be doing with it.

And I feel like at this point,

my taxes are relatively cheap, like right around $2,100 a year.

Electric gas, I have also the amenities, but my house value, I would say right around like $170,000, $180,000 with two acres, five bedrooms.

We just bought during COVID at a really great time.

And so I just feel like my net worth has been,

you know, post all of this, I just feel like I'm just really in a position that I don't want to be

I don't want to be weak in this $120,000.

I feel like I'm given an opportunity.

Can I ask you something, Angela?

Because it goes from 301 to 120 is that paying off the house

that's paying off our house okay both vehicles that we have a camper um have you already done all that

um i'm in the midst of i just paid off the camper because it had a higher interest rate than what i we were planning on moving it over to a lower interest rate um with my tech with my work um because i had a better credit union and then um the motorcycle that he passed on um

he only held that debt.

So that essentially is not part of this life insurance policy concept.

The only reason I asked, I didn't mean to rabbit trail you, but we want to make sure that you actually do this.

This is great because that's going to get you there to where you got 120 left.

So the question is, what do you do with the 120?

So with all the debt gone,

you're going to need an emergency fund.

Do you have, did you already have an emergency fund for you?

Because you guys were not married?

Do you have any of that at all?

Yeah, and I think that's where I'm kind of stuck in that is that what does an emergency, I mean, for me, like, you know, three months' worth of bills was where I was sitting with an emergency fund that we fit with cash inside of our safe.

So that was just the idea.

If anybody took anything out of our bank accounts, that was there.

Well, okay.

That's not what we would tell you to do.

And you know what three months' expenses are.

You already have that.

How much is it?

How much would three months be?

Well, prior to all of the debt being paid off, it's right around $13,000.

And you're saying you already have that set aside in cash, correct?

Yeah.

Okay.

So we were only worried about the digital part, right, of something being stolen.

So just having it here.

Yeah, well, okay, yeah.

You can just put it in a high-yield savings account.

It's FDIC insured.

You are safe.

Yeah, you'll be good with that.

And I would bump it up to 20

because you have a son.

And again, just ask some questions.

So I would put 20 grand, which you already have 13, so it's an extra seven coming out.

So that leaves you with, yeah, $113,000.

And, you know, Angela, you could, with this amount of money, I would,

I would spread it over three different ways.

And if you feel like you don't need to spend any of it and you just want to put it aside, you can totally do that.

You could put the whole chunk of it just in, you know, an index fund and it would grow to probably two, three million dollars by the time you're 65 without even touching it.

So that in and of itself would be a life-changing account, right, that you could just put away and not even look at.

You barely even have to manage it.

And so that's an option.

You could also use some of this money and open up a 529 for your son and put a chunk of money in there and let that grow for him.

So when it's time for college, that he has $100,000, you know, $120,000 sitting in there for college.

You know, there's some things you can definitely do, but I will say 113, it'll go fast, like when you start to actually kind of divvy it out.

But

the amount of intentionality with it, I feel from you, because it's from him, right?

I'm like, you want this legacy of him, of your fiancé, the love of your life, the father of your son to live on well.

And so

there's different ways you could do that from giving, saving,

and even spending some of it.

Yeah, I agree with Rachel.

What do you have as far as 401k or any type of retirement accounts?

accounts yeah so when we purchased values i did pull a little bit of money from my 401k um but right now i mean my 401k is is is growing um i apologize it did not look before the

no worries circumstance but i mean i i do plan on continuing to work um

just because i just there's just you know intentionality of just having health insurance for my son and then also i would like my idea of this compound interest is where my brain sort of sure yeah caught on to i think rachel's advice is great here's what I would add.

I would tell you to, if you don't have a true smart vestor pro in your life, go to ramseysolutions.com and go interview three or four or five.

Find out which one you click with the most.

This is just all about some basic likability chemistry thing.

And then get their opinions.

Have them, because we've told you, and we'll recap, what we would do with the 113.

I'm with Rachel.

That's the number I've got because the seven is going to get your emergency fund up to where I think is the right number.

So let's say you got 113 to work with.

I would get a smart investor, I get multiple to tell them what they would do with it and explain it to where you get it.

But I'm with Rachel.

I would,

what I would do is, is I would ask a smart investor pro, okay, I got a five-year-old.

How much money of the 113 would catch them up, assuming I was, let's say 100,000 was our goal.

You can talk through this.

Okay, well, he's five.

I'm five years behind.

So how much of the 113 do I put in that would catch him up?

They can give you that number.

And then what do I need to put in, you know, monthly?

Or do I take a lump sum here and go, all all right, because you got the $900.

Let's say the minimum Social Security payment's $900.

You said it was between $900 and $2,100.

I talk to them about that too and go, do I put in a lump sum out of the $113, Rachel, into the $529, and then take the entire or a good portion of the Social Security check and put that in?

Because that's for him.

And then you take the rest of the...

Let's say it's $100, just for conversation.

I'm with Rachel.

I would invest that and let that just build because we don't have to run the investment calculator, but I'm telling you, that's going to double every seven years.

That's what the historical return is.

And so you're a young lady.

And so that $100,000 boosts you and gets you really going above and beyond what you're already doing with the 15%

as we teach here in Baby Step 4.

But I think you've got a clear-cut strategy, but I think you should sit down with a professional and get them to partner with you.

And let's use this wisely.

And not to, you know, Ken just said this, and I don't think we've said it in the call, Angela, but consistently now, I want you investing 15% of your income into retirement above and beyond this 113 okay so that's going to be Roth IRAs your 401k and if you're doing that through your income and you have a jumpstart maybe maybe take some of this and the smart investor pro may say hey yeah take you know seven eight thousand of it and let's fund your 401 or your Roth for the year and you know you can find some smart ways to move it around but I do think your your initial reaction of investing in this compound interest I think is really wise

and that's where that's probably where I would lean for sure whether investing for your son's future part of of it with college, you for retirement in the future, and also for that emergency fund.

So,

gosh, Angela, I'm so sorry that this money came and how it came, but I appreciate your diligence.

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All right, folks, the 2026

Ramsey Gold Planner is here.

I feel like Roger Goodell announcing the NFL draft.

Very exciting.

The 2026.

Let me get this.

Oh, my gosh, it's a tight.

This is not a one-arm planner.

It's a heavy, heavy.

Note to those of you who love planners, this is going to require you doing some basic weightlifting.

This is unbelievable.

And I guess we're offering it at $35.97.

It's a curious price, a little bit less than $36.

Yep.

And I'm telling you, folks, you could hurt a person.

And I think this is the lowest price.

So you moms out there could use this as a paddle.

Does anybody do that anymore?

I don't think so.

I was thinking more self-defense.

I know.

I'm old school.

Someone comes.

If you're in a dark alley, ladies, this, bring out this spiral thing here.

Yeah.

That'll cut a man.

Well, and and we're gonna cut him because it's launching now it is the lowest price and it will continue to go up because these are very they're very valuable planners but we do a quick we do a quick launch early on with lowest price you know what i like little ruler right here on the inside leads me back to the trapper keeper days yes i wish i had some velcro i wish a little velcro is gonna be you know what 2027 does we need a trapper keeper option oh yes i'll talk about a retro but now rachel's right if you don't get this before labor day the price is going up in fact it's going up so much that it's not even on my notes here.

So that tells me it's going up.

Yeah, that's right.

So you better get it right now for $35.97.

So it has content in it from

John Deloney, myself, and Jade Warshaw, relationships, spirituality, your money.

And then there's also, obviously, all the calendars from like the month outlook.

A lot of tabs.

A lot of tabs.

To the weekly, all of it.

But the planner world, Ken, it's a world out there.

There are women that live in this world.

Can you detect?

I can't stand.

My wife still uses one of these.

She loves this.

I know.

When we do dates, I'm on my phone.

She's over here with this.

Flipping her calendar open.

Oh, I know.

I know.

But I do get it.

My wife loves this.

Stacy's going to be thrilled.

It's beautiful.

I might take this one, James.

Can I take this one home?

Surprise, Stacey.

You may not.

Okay.

James says, no, that's show props.

You sir.

You can buy your room.

I love it.

It was so polite.

And at the lowest price ever.

$35.97

only at ramseysolutions.com/slash store.

Ramseysolutions.com/slash store.

Maybe Kelly, the associate producer, will get a free one.

Maybe.

I don't know.

I don't know if it's a perk.

You have to talk to James.

All right, Lori's up next in Canada.

Lori, how can we help?

Oh, hi, Ken.

Hi, Rachel.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

Rachel, it's nice to talk to you again.

I was on the phone with you and Jade about a month or so ago.

Oh, wow.

And so I'm hoping to expand a little bit on my question a little bit.

I did follow your advice.

My question was whether to get a mobile home or rent.

Yes, I remember this.

Yes.

And what did Rachel tell you?

I just wanted to get around to it, but I am following your advice.

And now my question comes up.

There's a new question that comes up actually.

So I'm 27 years old.

I have about $28,000 in student debt.

I earn about $4,000 a month after tax.

And so I'll be relocating three hours away for a job.

Currently living with family, rent-free, and now with that move, I'll be renting.

I was going to be done baby step two in March of 2026, but now with this move, I'm going to be delaying my debt-free date by 12 to 14 months, just based on the numbers I've crunched.

You're making less money?

No, well, I'll be renting now.

And right now I'm not renting at all.

That's right.

You're living free.

That's right.

Okay, so we have a $1,200 increase.

What about the income increase?

I'm not increasing income yet.

There's a few variables that are still unknown, but I should know soon if I will be getting an increase in income in a few months.

Okay.

But

I have a part-time job right now.

I'll be losing that.

It's just creating a lot of anxiety and fear around

paying off debt.

I feel really demoralized about

it.

So hold on.

What's demoralizing you?

Is it the increase in costs?

Because you're living for free now.

And is it also that you're losing this part-time job?

Are those the sources of feeling demoralized?

Because I'm going backwards?

It's more so just the debt-free date that's being pushed back by so much.

Yeah, but those are the two reasons.

are those the two primary reasons here, I'm setting you up.

Those are the two primary reasons why you're moving the date, right?

Yes.

Okay, so let's let's look at how we would maybe not move the date.

Okay.

First of all, we don't know yet what your increase in income is going to be, true or false?

True.

True.

And there are part-time jobs where you're moving, true or false.

True.

It has been very difficult, though.

I've been applying actually prematurely just in hopes to get some responses, but I have yet to receive anything.

How much?

Okay, I get it, but let's have a mindset here that it is possible.

Isn't it true that it's possible that you can find a part-time job at some point upon moving?

Is that possible?

It is.

Okay, great.

Now, tell Rachel and I, how much money of that income that you're bringing home that you told us, how much of that is from the part-time job?

It's not, actually.

So with the part-time job, I get an additional like $500 to $1,000 a month.

I don't work a lot of hours where I'm currently working in my part-time job.

So

and also we're in the low season right now.

Okay.

So what I would tell you, Lori, is, is to find something that you make $1,200 a month.

And that's part of this baby step two process.

It's cutting all expenses and bringing in extra income.

And it's scorched earth.

So instead of it extending an additional 12 months, because you are going to be out by March, which is pretty soon.

I mean, that's, you know, six months.

Yeah.

Is that right?

Eight months.

Eight months.

I had to count the months real quick, make sure that was correct.

So,

yeah, so eight months.

And now you're saying it's going to be an additional year because of you don't have a part-time job right now and the rent.

So, what I would make it a goal is to say, it may not be March, but it's going to be June.

Like, it's not going to be another year.

I agree.

And work like crazy.

What about you?

That's all you got to do for eight eight months eight months all you gotta do is just is is

spend nothing you know yeah take your expenses all the way down and then that extra that extra income is what is key for a lot of people that get out of debt that's what we find and again it's not forever yeah but it's literally just through the christmas season into the spring and then you have your end date and you're good and lori what about a roommate

I've considered those options.

I've asked around friends and things like that.

There hasn't been anybody

Lori, listen, let me tell you what's going on.

And I'm saying, can I be big brother here?

You have the spirit

of

I can't do it.

It's so hard.

And I love that you called back.

And I love that you're being honest with us.

But every time we present a solution to you, and the way you set the entire call up is I'm overwhelmed, which means, and I've talked to a lot of overwhelmed people in my time at Ramsey Solutions, and the reason they're overwhelmed is because they don't believe.

They don't believe.

Okay.

So what we've been attempting to do is to go, wait a second, is it possible?

And that was my little game that I did with you a little bit earlier because the thing that's going on with you is you've actually done so well, you're committed, and now you've had a change of life, and it has thrown you off.

But this is all mindset.

This is not some like kumbaya technique I'm trying to tell you.

I'm telling you, you've got to go, wait a second, this is how I feel.

That's real.

And I don't in any way want to minimize your emotions.

However, you feel that way because you've not allowed your mind to actually look for solutions.

You just saw roadblock.

I got to move now.

Now I'm not getting rent free.

I'm actually paying rent.

Well, welcome to the real world.

You've been living in la-la land with no rent.

Good for you.

But this is real life.

This is not the end of the world.

Okay.

So, Rachel and I've walked you through these scenarios.

And I'm telling you, I want to encourage you: you can find a roommate.

You can find a part-time job.

And if you you do those things, as Rachel said, you won't have to push back the timeline.

And dare I say, if you get a roommate, I think you can beat the debt-free payoff.

Go even earlier.

Let's cut it from $1,200 to $600.

Yep.

Yeah.

And Lori, I want you to know that this is possible.

You know, you're not trying to find $10,000 a month.

It's $1,000.

You can do it.

You can do it.

And we will have it.

Yes.

So go.

You know, take this situation and and say i'm gonna happen to it not let it happen to me we believe in you you got this

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It's very important that you understand in any kind of process-oriented

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So that's a fabulous little quiz.

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Leo is up in San Diego, California.

Leo, how can we help today?

How are you doing?

Thank you for taking my call.

I really appreciate it.

Sure.

So me and my wife, we're newlyweds, been married, and got married

February 14th.

Congratulations.

Oh, a little Valentine's Day wedding.

Nice.

Yeah, yeah, it was good.

We've been together a total of about three and a half years.

We've been, we got our own apartment about a little about two years ago.

And our mother-in-law, well, she wasn't my mother-in-law at first, but she decided she offered to help us with rent.

So we took her up on the offer and everything was going good until we got married.

A couple of months after we got married, she started harassing my wife like through text message, like just all kinds of just mean and dirty, just vile things, just like.

um just mean things and then um that's fun so she uh we basically decided to just you know

kind of just decline her help because she was

kind of putting stipulations on it.

Like one, she called and said, if you want our rent, if you want my half of the rent this month, you have to prove to me XYZ, which was no problem because we proved it to her.

But it would, that, you know, it was just like out of nowhere, you know.

Well, she out of nowhere started harassing her own daughter.

This woman's cray crack.

Yes.

Did you know she was crazy before you married?

Yes.

What are you?

Okay.

Quick life life lessons.

Don't ever, ever, ever

fight your instinct on relationship stuff with family members.

Because if the crazy is in the family, there's more crazy is going to show up.

So let's move forward on this.

And put up a boundary.

Put up a boundary.

She can't.

Yeah.

Yes.

Our boundary was blocking her.

So that was

that.

But ever since, ever since, and before, before we decided to stop taking her help we were doing great with staying up on staying our bills were paid on time everything was good um but we didn't save we didn't save anything my wife was saying hey we need to save but me being bad with money we made i made very bad decisions and we ended up in a situation where we didn't have any we weren't ready for this situation that we were in you weren't ready for it period because i just want to rewind real quick you got you've said twice now that you guys were great at paying everything while she was giving you money, which means you weren't ever great because you didn't have enough money to pay.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Exactly.

All right, so where do we stand today?

Her money's gone.

Thank goodness.

How short are you?

Okay, so we are paying the rent, but we are late every month.

So every check, we're coming up with like we're catching up.

So this next

first of the month, we're going to be short.

The next

after that, we'll catch up.

Okay, how much do you guys make per month?

What do you both bring in?

Between us, we bring probably, oh, I don't know the amount between us.

I just did the yearly.

The yearly between both of us is 50K.

Between the both of you, it's 50K?

Yes.

What do you guys do for a living?

I do aerospace manufacturing, and she's a barista in a hotel.

Okay.

I love that you said you do aerospace manufacturing, but let's get real.

What is your job?

You're only making $25,000 a year average between the two of you.

What are you doing?

I do de Burring, which is like the lowest.

I am currently in training.

Like, I do have CNC experience.

I'm in training.

Like, within the next year, I do plan on moving up.

I'm in the process of moving up to a CNC position.

How much would you make?

Come with the raise.

Probably about $2 or $3 more.

Probably about $25,000.

$28 at the max, I'm guessing.

That's after, you know, I get some schooling and more training.

How old are you guys?

I am 39.

We're both 39.

Okay.

I'm 39.

You guys, you don't even know what you make.

So it's really hard for Rachel to coach you up on, you don't even know how much you make.

You're just giving us, we got a $50,000 figure.

So what debt?

Here's what's got to happen, Leo.

I'm going to be really honest with you, okay?

If Ken and I were out to drinks with you and your newlywed wife,

this is what I would say to you.

Cocktail wisdom.

Here comes the best.

I would say everything you've known and thought and done with money, we're going to do the complete opposite.

Good decision.

Okay.

Okay.

meaning you don't really know where your money's going.

You don't really know how much you make or bring in a month.

That's gonna change.

You're gonna know to the cent because you are going to be so detailed, so intense, so OCD about your money and where every

dollar is going that you're gonna be able to rattle off what you guys spend at the grocery store every week, okay?

Because you guys are gonna have a very, very detailed budget.

And we're gonna give you some stuff, Leo, to help you help this happen, okay?

But that's the thing.

We've been trying to.

And I'm going to be honest too, Leo.

You guys, you know,

your jobs, what you're making, you guys need to be making double.

So she's working as a barista.

If I were her, I would be applying to be a receptionist somewhere, right?

Go be an assistant to someone.

Like, go, you have to be in this position because you're both adults now.

And if you want to have a family and you guys want to, you know, extend your lives, these incomes have to go up, which means probably a change of career, probably more for her.

Yours sounds like it hopefully has some

taking off, it's taking off.

Hold on,

she has kids, so we already have kids in the like they're her kids, they're my stepkids.

Okay, um, so we, their kids are definitely in the, they're not full-time with us.

All right, Leo, Leo, Leo, Leo, it's it's it's a okay, yeah, hold on, sorry.

We have limited, no, no, you're great, we're trying to help you.

How much do you make properly?

Okay, do you know that?

I make $21 an hour.

Okay, so a year from now, you think or believe you're going to get a $2 to $3 an hour raise.

Yes.

That's not

a career that...

Yeah, but that's not a career that's taken off.

Yes.

You're not taking off.

You're on the doorstep of 40.

And you've got to get serious.

I'm not beating up on you.

I'm just going,

dude, like.

You've got to have a plan that moves you forward, not a year from now, to a $2 to $3 raise.

Okay?

Same thing.

So we need to collectively get together and say, what do we want for our lives?

What's a target?

Exactly.

What must be true for us to make $100,000

combined?

You guys listen.

Time is moving, bro.

Yes, you're right.

You're right.

You're right.

We don't have time at 39 to wait a year to make a $2,000 to $3 bump.

And Leo, what do you guys own your cars?

What do y'all own your cars?

So, okay, so I own my vehicle that I just purchased under a year ago, but it's given me issues.

So, getting a second job has been, it's a possibility, but just for having a car.

No, no, no, no, no.

See, that's the problem.

What does she owe on hers?

She owes $1,500 on her car.

Okay, okay.

Okay.

What other debt do you guys have?

Credit card?

We have

one credit total is what she owes.

That's what's left on her loan for her.

Yes.

Great.

Yes.

Great.

Great.

great our debt and credit is all we only have our credit card debt which is eight thousand dollars okay okay okay so tonight that's all our debt all your debt that's great that's awesome okay so i would cut up the credit cards don't even make it a temptation your goal for next month

that's great we'll cut them up anyways i don't well you have a balance you got eight thousand dollars yeah yeah i mean like we don't have anything available to spend on it so you're right like oh it's maxed out okay perfect you say that like that's a good thing Can I just say

not a good thing?

No, not a good thing.

I'm embarrassed about it.

No, Leo.

Okay, so no, you're doing, this is great.

Okay.

So here's what I want you to do when you get off this call, okay?

You both need to apply for second jobs.

Your goal is to get a thousand dollar emergency funds, okay, in the next 60 days, 30 days, 40 days, and catching up on rent.

Those are your two goals, emergency funds and catching up on rent.

With the second job, should help free up some of that cash.

And then once that that happens you guys start paying off this debt smallest to largest the car and then the credit cards you can do this leo stay on the line kelly's gonna pick up we'll give you some stuff

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance.

We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance.

And I'm like, I can't even imagine.

Or even if it was opposite, right?

If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child child care?

How do I, how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing?

Like, and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

Like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills

next week.

Yeah, in the middle of all that grief.

Like it's just, it is, it's terrible.

And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

And we keep re-upping it because I'm like, I just want it there.

Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens.

And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies.

It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

The cost of stinking pizza.

There really is.

So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

So we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282.

That's 800-356-4282 or go to xander.com.

This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, winning your work, and winning your relationships.

Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman.

Happy to have you with us.

The phone number to jump in on the conversation is 888-825-5225.

Meg is up next in Utah.

Meg, how can we help today?

Hi,

my fiancé is asking me to spend

my life saving from before I met him into renovating his parents' home.

Have you asked him if he's lost his ever-loving mind?

Well, I saved the money for a car

and we had a baby so we live in said home we plan on purchasing said home but we haven't done any of those things yet you just rolled right by my very pertinent and relevant question Meg

your life savings how much is that

that's 30k

okay and you just blitzed right by my question.

I'm serious.

What emotion, what thoughts entered your mind when this guy said this to you?

Mixed emotions.

One, I feel like

if I purchased the home first, I'd feel better about spending my life savings on it.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

I thought it was his parents' home.

Yes, but then she said they're going to buy it.

When are y'all going to buy it?

Well, we're looking at doing that last year,

but then his parents were feeling bad about the fact that it would cost me 30K to essentially buy the loan once, you know, everybody's checking everybody.

Why are y'all doing this deal?

I don't understand.

Why don't y'all just go buy a house?

So where I live,

30K does not really get you anywhere to purchase a home.

The average home in our neighborhood is probably

giving you the home?

No.

Okay.

Essentially

giving us equity on the home.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

First of all, you guys are not married so that's your money not his money and in no situation should you give your money to his parents to renovate a home that you may or may not have this is going to turn into an absolute nightmare what about the car you've been saving up for a car that you need yes

yes like like how bad do you need this car

not super bad i work remote um but is your current car failing is what i'm getting at

uh no i i have a lease and my lease ends in December and I'm not willing to purchase.

Okay, this $30,000 is your money.

Full stop, period.

You need to use it for your stuff.

Now, the day that he puts a ring on your finger and you guys get married and you join finances.

When are you getting married?

It's your fiancé.

I don't know.

I have a six-month-old at home.

So one day when I sleep at night.

One day when you can sleep at night.

And I'm assuming that's his baby, correct?

It is, yes.

Why doesn't he have any money?

He does now.

Well, then why does he need your money?

Well, he does now, but he has a lot of credit card debt that he needs to take care of.

I was helping with that when I had a whole lot more money, but I stopped working free jobs when I had a baby.

So now we make about the same.

Okay.

You called to ask us what we thought about this, correct?

Yes.

Okay.

I know what you thought about it.

You gave me the mixed emotions.

Why don't you just tell us what you really felt?

What did you feel when he hit you with that?

I felt like this is a dumb idea.

Great.

You are correct.

Ding, ding, ding.

That's what Rachel and I think.

I'm mad.

Meg wins.

Let me pull the audience out here.

We got about 50 people out there.

If you think this is a dumb idea, raise your hand.

Everybody in the audience.

We got a lot of hands raised, Meg.

There's your phone.

Okay, so number one, Meg, we do not combine finances.

We do not share finances.

We do not pay on each other's debts and/or homes or future-in-law homes.

We do nothing combining until we are married.

You have no financial

obligation to help him and you have no protection.

If you guys were married and something happened, then we can get Utah state involved and we can figure that out with assets and everything.

But you have no protection, Meg.

Okay.

So number one,

no combining finances.

Number two, it's, I would go this weekend, Meg.

If you love him and you think he's the one, you got a six-month-old together, you're living together, I think you just go get a marriage license.

Y'all need to get married.

You need to start this life.

You're in it.

You're acting married.

Just go do it.

Do a wedding later, whatever the celebration is.

Like you guys need to start actually living in the reality of which you live.

And so, if I were you, and if you love him, right?

You want to marry him, right?

I love him.

I don't love how he handles money.

Okay.

Well, then there's a red flag.

This is a great reason not to marry him.

Yes.

Yes, because then his debt is my debt, and I've lived debt for him.

Well,

is he on board of trying to get out of debt?

Because you said you were trying to help him pay off debt and you gave him some money to pay off debt.

Is he working his way out of debt?

He has some,

what's a nice way to say it?

Interesting ideas on how to get out of debt.

He has a philosophy of

my goal in life is that in one year we don't have to have this conversation about money because I'll be making so much more that we don't have to worry about.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is what I thought in high school.

I thought that one day I would be able to dunk a basketball.

Just kind of thought it would happen.

Never happened, Rachel.

And money magnifies the situation.

You're never not going to have to not talk about it because you make money.

Yeah.

This guy,

this is a tough situation.

You need to define the relationship.

That's what needs to happen here.

Number one, no, I'm not giving you money.

This is crazy.

I don't feel comfortable marrying you until we get on the same page with money.

So therefore, putting money into a future thing, no, no, no.

Definitely.

Love you.

No.

Did I mention that I love you?

No.

All right, that's first thing.

And I'm not kidding.

I actually don't want you to go down to the courthouse.

And Rachel doesn't either now.

No, I don't.

But I hate that you guys have a six-month-old.

I mean, like, you know, my hope is.

We don't want to further complicate it.

No, we don't.

But I do hope that you guys work to mend this for the sake of the six-month-old and for your futures together.

I agree.

Well, if I had him on the phone, I'd go, do you love this woman?

And hopefully he'd say yes.

And I'd go, why don't you...

throw out all your cockamamie ideas that don't require you to do hard work and work for a while to get successful.

And why don't you ask your fiancé what she thinks about money and why she thinks about money.

Because she has $30,000.

Because she's doing it better than you, Sparky.

Yeah, 100%.

100%.

And so, you know, that's what needs to happen.

He needs to man up, you know?

Yeah, and for the most part, he's okay.

I mentioned I can just manage money.

I'm great at managing money.

I'm great at saving money.

I can get us wherever we want.

Well, then tell him if he wants to marry you, that you're going to manage the money and he's going to be in the budget meeting, but he's going to sit there.

He's going to learn.

Right?

Like, if he's willing to let you, if he's willing to marry you and we now adopt your money principles, if this guy's really willing to do it, which by the way, he would need to show that to you.

If you were my sister, I'd go, don't you even dare marry this clown until he shows you that he is willing to get on board with you and then live his life that way for a minimum of six months.

So,

Meg, I'm sorry.

Yeah, I tried to have those conversations.

Yeah.

Well, maybe he needs to know that you're not going to stick stick around.

You know?

Define the relationship.

Rachel, what do you mean?

Give him money.

That's my number one, Meg.

You're not crazy or mean by not putting your $30,000 into his parents' home.

You know, I was going to ask James if I should get ordained so I could marry couples on the spot for future situations like this, but now

I would have said no, Meg.

We would have not.

No marriage.

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Today's question comes from Renee in New York.

Why do you encourage kids to move out of their parents' home so young?

Isn't it better for them to work, live at home, and save their money so they can buy a place to live when they move?

Why move out to pay a landlord for a place to live?

How will they ever achieve the American dream of home ownership?

If kids are working hard and saving, what's the advantage of moving out?

There are other ways to achieve a sense of dignity and independence than throwing money away at rent every month.

Oh boy.

Well, Renee.

Are you sure your name's not Karen?

Because that sounds a little woke to me.

I mean, this is why we have so many snowflakes because of this woman has raised snowflakes.

That's my part of the answer.

I think that's it.

This is real.

Okay.

What do you think?

So, all right.

So, okay.

At that point, it's not a math issue.

Because there's something about, and she says there's other ways to have dignity and independence, maybe to a degree, but there's also something about being a full.

They're cleaning their room.

You know, when our maid service came in, they commented about our oldest son, Jimmy, about his toilet was spotless.

Jimmy, he's doing great, mom.

Way to go.

I mean, this whole question is so, I'm not, listen, this is pathetic and questions plural questions

she's very mad all right i'll break this down well she's getting me mad okay here we go why do you encourage kids to move out of their parents home so young at any point on the show has any one of us ever recommended that some kid move out in their teens

the answer to that is no pull the archives we're talking about people that are out of college and are old enough and we do live on their own and they have a a job.

And we say for a season.

And some of them don't have a job, they need to move out.

And for a season, it's okay.

We're not like hardcore about it.

We are not.

But there is a point that people that live with their parents for an endless amount of time to quote-unquote just save money, you lose the life lessons.

You lose life.

You lose.

And the dating thing too, Ken.

I always go back to that.

Could you imagine a 26-year-old guy?

And you're like, okay, where should we go after dinner?

You want to go see a movie?

You got to go.

You got to go to my parents' house.

There was a movie about this with Matthew McConaughey.

And I'm going to go to the middle of the whole watch and Sarah Jessica Parker, one of my all-time favorite rom-coms, incidentally.

Matthew McConaughey, what a gym.

And the whole thing is that the parents didn't want him to leave.

And let me tell you something about Renee.

Renee doesn't want her kids to leave.

And so it's all in here.

Let me go with this one.

This is my favorite one here.

Why move out only to pay a landlord for a place to live?

Because that's what every other freaking American does until they can afford a home, and it's called personal responsibility.

But no,

there are other ways to achieve a sense of dignity and independence.

I mean, this has got a little bit of like Ben Franklin to it.

Like, she's really pinning this away.

And then

throwing your money away on rent every month.

And I'm going to let you, because you're so much nicer than me.

Why do we think that renting is not throwing money away?

Yeah, why do you think that's a good thing?

I know.

I want you to say more.

You're buying time.

You don't own, so you're not like responsible for every expense.

And home ownership is expensive.

So, rent for a little bit.

Yeah, there, man.

There's no dignity or independence if you can afford to move out and you got a job and just come on.

I'm so tired of all of this.

For a short period of time, I'm okay with it, right?

Like, if you graduate college, you need six months at home to figure out a place to live.

I get that.

Like, that is fine.

It's not, we're not that legalistic about it.

But this endless amount to just save money and I'm going to go live at my parents until I'm 26, 27.

And by the way, Renee says that she goes, until they have enough for a down payment.

Well, okay, let's run the numbers on that.

That's not a two-year play.

No.

Just if you look at housing.

So that's why some of you who hear me and you're now offended by me, one, I don't care.

And two, I'm actually basing on real numbers.

Based on this woman's question,

you do not have a one-year or a year and a half or two-year scenario.

This is going to be years in the making with them living in the nest and this is the real issue a lot of parents don't want their kids to leave yeah because they don't now now i'm really oh i can't wait you know why codependence what it's it's a form of codependence but they do not like the life that they will have when the kids are gone that they're holding on for their

worried about what life is like with their spouse when the kiddos are gone they have they have i'm just telling you that's what it is and those little moms which i'm a mom of a little boy i get it you want charles living with you when he's 24?

Well, not for his sake, but I do help him a lot more than I help my girls at this stage.

Why is that?

I don't know.

He's just so sweet.

I put y'all on the ground.

Your girls are darling, but

why do you print Charles?

I don't know.

It's a mother-son thing.

I don't know.

But I will go above and beyond for him more so than the girls.

Bottom line is we don't kick people out.

It's not our decision.

We're just hosting a show that you listen to.

You can do what you want.

But

we don't tell people to kick their kids out.

And I think one of of the top three for me, besides that, it's the romantic relationships.

I'm not going to lie.

I think it's a very unattractive thing.

What do you mean?

If I was single and dating.

Oh, yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

And the dude's living with his parents?

Yeah, yeah.

And vice versa.

I don't know.

You might as well have a giant sweatshirt that says loser on it.

Which, by the way, based on the last call, I'm going to circle back to this because there are people that are watching and listening.

I'm going to be serious for a moment, okay?

There are people that are watching and listening to us, and we are

blown away that you let us into your ears and, and, and give you advice.

But I want to say this just because I'm, I'm now, I'm that guy.

Okay, go, Ken.

I'm 51.

If you are a woman and you are single right now, and you are dating a dude who you are attracted to, I don't care what the reasons are, but you know somewhere in your gut

that he doesn't have his act together.

Would you please have the dignity to press pause and put it on the line for him and go, I'm concerned?

Because if you follow your heart and don't listen to your gut and you marry a loser or you have a baby with a loser because you're not responsible enough to protect that romantic moment.

You are going to pay big time financial and emotional consequences.

So we just don't say it enough.

I just want to go, listen, ladies, listen to your heart.

Get some guys in to your gut and get some people in your life who will go, he's a really attractive, charismatic loser.

But it's the last word that's the operating word.

Rachel, you know what I'm saying?

Like, I'm not angry.

But I mean,

please,

these romantic decisions lead to massive relationship and financial decisions.

Yes.

Yes.

Please.

100%.

Don't

hop in the sack with a loser.

This is a great life rule.

That's all he wanted to say.

Is it not a good rule to live by?

Yeah.

By the way, it goes for guys, too.

You're probably very old school in that scenario.

Don't hop in the sack with a woman that's crazy.

Because then you procreate, create, crazy.

And then you're stuck with it.

I mean, it's like this show's about winning with money.

Here's one of the rules.

Don't procreate with crazy.

Don't live with somebody who's a loser.

You would be surprised at how wealthy you could be.

But I do think you, what?

Am I right?

Well, yes, because we get these calls a lot

from the relational side.

Yeah, and it's all bad.

And they tell us scenarios, and we're like, what are you doing with them?

Or her.

Like, she sounds terrible, or he sounds terrible.

And I think either, number one, you just don't have people in your life that are going to say it, or there's not enough.

You're so deep in it that there's no mirror.

You can't see out of it.

You don't see a difference.

You need someone else, which is why they're calling two strangers, right?

Which we appreciate.

Yeah.

By the way, to be able to, yeah.

You hear it in their voice.

You go, why are you with them?

And they're kind of like,

and here's what happens.

When you sell your dignity

for companionship, you sell your gut, you sell your values, any of those scenarios, when you sell that for that emotional feeling that that person provides, you are setting yourself up for

relational and financial disaster.

So somebody had to say it.

I think this is life skills 101.

What I just said there is not new, nor is it that deep.

But boy, oh boy, is it right?

Common sense, not so common anymore.

Not anymore.

Hey, if you are tired of living paycheck to paycheck, feeling like you can't get ahead, we'd love for you to join one of our free every dollar trainings, new trainings every week this month.

And they're hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities.

They're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find $9,000 of margin using Every Dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth.

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So this isn't just like a webinar where they're talking at you.

They're going to get to talk with you.

Sign up for free at ramseysolutions.com slash webinar, ramseysolutions.com slash webinar.

Mark is joining us now in Birmingham.

Mark, how can we help?

Hey, I appreciate you guys taking my call.

How's it going?

We're doing well, sir.

How are you today?

Pretty good.

Pretty good.

So, just to get right into it,

I'm preparing to get my debt snowball rolling.

And

I have roughly like $10,000 to $11,000 in debt.

It's not credit cards or vehicle payments.

It's like just personal debt.

How much, Mark, did you say?

How much?

Between $10,000 and $11,000.

Okay.

And I have a payment, $9,600 of it is

the IRS.

I have a payment array that we're down to like $205 a month.

And the rest is like personal debt.

My wife has student loans like $23,000.

I pay all the bills.

I take home like $4,300 a month.

And I take care of everything.

Her money is her money to me.

And so my question is,

do I focus on just my debt and then like move on to the next baby steps and you know start investing in the emergency fund and then, like, you know, trying to save for a home?

Or do I include her debt with mine all at once?

You get what I'm saying?

Yep, I do know what you're saying.

My question to you is, why don't you guys combine finances and have a checking account where all of your money goes in, and you guys decide how to best use the household money?

Just, I mean, just being honest, is because of that IRS bitch.

Like, when we got married,

I was an owner operator for,

like, I was driving trucks.

I still drive trucks, but at the time, I was an owner-operator.

And I told her I was being straight up with her, like, look,

I got this issue with the IRS.

So she didn't want to file jointly because of that.

And she didn't want to, you know, kind of, I guess, jam herself up.

But I do, like, we do have a joint account where I deposit all the money, like, and then, like, she can pay bills out of it and stuff like that.

Okay, well, if you guys can buy in a checking account, that doesn't affect the IRS.

That's more, is it more of a trust issue with her from you that you didn't do what you said you were going to do or you got behind on taxes and she doesn't trust you with her money?

Right, it was just me being irresponsible.

I mean, her money, yeah.

No, I know, I know, but that's what I'm saying, though, is if you guys combined finances into a checking account and saw it as a household budget, the IRS isn't affected by that.

That doesn't change your taxes.

So, I'm just curious

if, yeah, if everything's in the same checking account, that doesn't change your taxes.

So, oh, so even if we file, like even when we

file your taxes would be one thing, but you guys, where your income goes, your paychecks, where they go when you're paid, the IRS doesn't care about that.

So if you guys are in one account,

you're a household account.

Now, how you file your taxes, whether individual or married filing jointly, that's, you know, that's different.

So what I would suggest you guys do, Mark, just from

a relational standpoint, what we have found is that couples who combine everything, what that shows is number one, that we are a team and this household that we are running together as a married couple, you get further with your financial goals faster and you actually end up having a better marriage because of it, because you lean on each other, you trust each other, communications opened, and you see yourselves as one.

So, there's a financial benefit to it, but there's also a relational emotional benefit to say, yeah, we're married.

Like when we said yes, and I do, and put rings on and created this covenant between us we're sharing our lives like this is everything you know we are all in this together so um that may take some conversations to kind of get her around to that idea but that would be the ultimate goal for me for you guys mark is to say yes we are one and so how so if that was the case you bring home 43 a month what does she bring home

She has a small business.

She sells, she makes and produce her own skincare products.

I don't know how much she makes a month.

I just know like a year is like like five, between five and ten thousand.

Like I said, I take care of everything, so I just kind of like

stay out of her business.

How much does she make $10,000 a year?

$10,000 to $25,000?

No, no, no, between $5,000 and $10,000.

A year?

Yeah, for her.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's not a lot of money.

Yeah.

Why is she not working?

Because

we have three kids and another one on the way.

Okay, so she's more of a stay-at-home

mom.

Okay.

Okay, well, then that means, I mean, I mean, honestly, Mark, at that point, it's like 800 bucks a month.

So it's not even that much that she's going to have to, quote unquote, merge with you.

It's not, you know what I mean?

Like, it's you guys together.

It's not like she's got a job making 80,000 and she's like, this is mine, this is yours.

And there's kind of a harder emotional.

I just kind of leave it.

You know, I just say, here, I just leave it here.

So you, okay,

so that's kind of like her fault.

Okay.

Yep.

Well, that $800 that she makes a month,

$8,000 to $1,000, could be very beneficial in this, in these baby steps, right?

So, you guys could look at that to say people go and try to find an extra job to get $8,000 a month.

And as a stay-at-home mom, that's what she's doing, which is awesome.

$9,600 right there.

Yeah.

So, what I would do is, I would, the IRS debt needs to be cleaned up first.

So, the, so the $9,600 from the IRS, I would clean that out.

We usually say, Mark, smallest to largest debt, but the IRS gets a pass to the front because we want them out of your lives.

So, the $9,600,

I would, yep, yep, pay that off.

And again, if you guys can work together, you could have this paid off in seven to eight months, just even with what she's bringing in.

But that gets knocked out.

And then I would be, and then you have what, probably about 400 left?

Is that what you said?

Because it was $9,600 and you have 10,000?

Right, right.

Just personal duties.

Okay, so get that 400 cleaned up.

And then, yes, and then you guys together attack that 23,000 of her student loans.

So I want your household debt-free, and then we will move on to a household emergency fund with three to six months of expenses.

So, um,

okay, so for you, Mark, how much, so you, you bring home 4,300.

How much is rent or mortgage?

How much are you guys paying in that a month?

Yeah, I'm renting right now, and it's 1320.

1320, okay.

Um, all right, that's good.

Yep.

So, yeah, this is, um, and honestly too, Mark, I mean,

this idea of getting out of debt and getting this emergency fund in place, if you've been listening to us any amount of time, I mean, it is scorched earth.

It is extra jobs.

It is like getting this done

ASAP really, really, really, really, really fast.

On that point, what do you do for a living?

I drive trucks.

Okay.

Is that skill,

is there a way for you to pick up a decent amount of hours where it's actually going to make a difference just with the truck driving skill?

I mean, not a big job.

I do something on the side, but it's not something that I report.

I didn't really include it in my, you know, my overall.

Okay.

What do you do on the side?

What do you do on the side and how much?

It's like waste management, something like, you know, like junk removal type stuff.

I have a pickup truck.

Yeah.

If I'm hustling like I should, then I could, I mean, I can make like $2,000 easy a month.

$2,000.

That was great.

Mark?

Mark, buddy, that's the play.

Because, listen, your wife's busy, man.

She got two and one on the way.

And, you know, there's just not a whole lot of margin there.

And that's not something y'all decided.

Love that.

$2,000 a month could turn into $4,000 a month if you're hustling and you figure out a way to scale yourself.

I like that play

a lot.

You know?

Yeah, for sure.

Like, Mark, I'm telling you, that's a great opportunity.

See, not like...

And you're a hard worker.

I appreciate that about you, Mark.

I mean, you're not scared of hard work.

Love it, Mark.

Get after it, man.

And then scale yourself, you know?

Him like own his own thing one day.

That's what I'm getting at, Mark.

Maybe be surprised where this could go.

You know?

Yeah, you're making 4,300 driving trucks.

And like Ken's saying, if you could make 4,000 doing

this, I mean...

I'd find some high school guys, some college guys in the summer that want some good money hourly and you're just loading them up with pun intended.

That could be fun.

That's a fun dream.

Sit down with your wife tonight, Mark.

We're going to give you every dollar.

Oh.

And you guys create a household household budget.

Both of your incomes go in and just start to dream.

Seriously, dream how fast can we get out of debt?

What would it look like for Mark to own his own business?

I like it.

All right, let's go to Susan in Missouri.

Susan, how can we help?

Yes, thank you so much for having me on the show today.

My boyfriend and I are going to be starting FPU FPU soon, and we're both really excited.

When we start this, my boyfriend's going to be able to knock out the very little debt he has just right out of his checking account and probably be in about 75% into a six-month emergency fund.

Wow.

Great.

Yeah, he's doing wonderful.

Me, unfortunately,

I'm not that great.

I got divorced about eight years ago, and I just in a bad place.

I relied heavily on debt and credit cards, and I've got about 90,000 in debt.

57 of that's student loans.

I've got a vehicle loan for $17,000, and the rest is like a personal loan, and I got about $5,000 on a credit card that I'm still working on.

Okay.

We've got some short-term and long-term goals together.

Our short-term goal is we want me to be able to stay at home with a baby someday.

And given my age, we are actually seeing a fertility doctor now for some help with conceiving.

And my boyfriend wants to help me pay pay off my debt and make sure we're in the place for me to stay at home when our prayers are answered.

And I know we aren't married yet, but it's definitely happening soon, sooner than later.

He asked me my ring size, like, it's going to happen.

So I didn't know with our given situation, would this be okay?

No.

Yeah.

Can you explain?

I tried to explain it to him last night and I and

I know I can't articulate it good enough.

Okay, so wait a second.

This is his idea?

He, yes, he wants to help me.

And he's been, I mean, he's been such a blessing to my daughter and I.

Like, I'm really good at it.

So let me ask you, what did you say to him?

I want to know what Susan tried to explain.

So you knew we were going to say no, didn't you?

Oh, oh, I definitely knew you guys were saying no.

Okay, no.

I'm very glad I'm actually talking to you all, not Dave.

Tell us why.

We are so nice.

I'm kidding.

Susan.

No, no, no.

No.

But I love his advice.

I love it all.

I know.

So, Rachel, she's gone.

Okay.

So, what

was your explanation?

Give us the summary of how you explained why the answer is.

I just know

the data shows that, you know, when you're married, you're

the data just shows that.

See, I can't articulate it very well.

And just biblically, biblically.

Okay.

But then also on my side, I did all the right things that first marriage, and it still didn't work.

And I'm like, I'm happy.

I'm safe.

I'm secure.

Like, I'm not, I don't want to push it too much.

I mean, I'm, I'm mentioning it every once in a while.

Like, hey, we've been together three and a half years.

Yeah, and y'all are seeing a fertility specialist, Susan.

I'm like, you guys are about to start a family.

So, like, we got the carton literally before the whole thing.

You're not crazy.

You're not like out of the blue.

I feel like marriage is like a

rapper.

I would have married him last year with a bread tie.

There you go.

He's just so I, you know, yeah.

So I like that.

So the or so, so there's a couple of big events happening in your lives, and you called us.

So we'll give you our thoughts.

Ken, I'll give you mine.

I already said no.

And if you disagree with what I'm about to say, my order of events.

I like this.

I don't mind you seeing a fertility specialist and be talking through, but I would not be going forward with anything big decision-wise until you're married.

And so, because we've talked to already one person on the show that has a six-month-old with a fiancé who she's about to break up with, I think, because Ken was like, he's a loser.

He's terrible.

He's not great.

And I know your fiance fiancé or your boyfriend is different,

but I'm just saying, life happens, things happen.

We get calls on this show all the time, and it's just it's relationships that end up.

Why are you okay?

I'm sorry, quick.

I thought I was going to agree with you.

I'm not sure I'm on board with her going through the fertility doctor conversation without a renaissance.

I'm okay with dying.

I know, so he needs to step up.

Tell him, I know.

Well, I'm okay with

like I'm not, I'm not, I'm okay with them interviewing doctors and asking the question because they're about to be engaged.

I wouldn't go forward.

If she wants to freeze her eggs, she can, but I wouldn't actually do anything fertility-wise until they're married.

My concern is, is if you go do that, it's a slippery slope.

It could be.

So, y'all need to get married, Susan.

So,

married,

baby, and then, well, married, combined finances, baby.

And the baby finance thing can happen

right away.

Okay.

So, what I would do if I were you guys is to say, and and hopefully out loud y'all are saying, yes, we're going to get married, right?

Like that's a conversation that's being said.

And do you know, I know he asked for a ring, but do you guys say, like, oh, yeah, by the end of the year, we'll be married?

Like, do you, do y'all have a timeline?

No, not really.

I mean, we.

So we need a timeline.

We talked the other night, and we don't need anything big.

It's great.

So we need a timeline.

I could marry you guys on the show.

This is why I should get ordained.

Ken really wants to marry someone.

I kind of do.

Okay.

So y'all need to make it.

This is what I'm going to do in Nashville now.

So number one, I would do timeline of wedding, end of the year.

I don't know, it's August.

Let's by December, we're getting married, okay?

Yeah, and then in December, financially, where's everyone at?

In December, he has paid off his debt.

In December, he's gonna have, I'm making this up, Susan, thirty thousand dollars of debt, or I'm sorry, of cash, forty thousand dollars in his emergency fund.

I don't know, he's gonna have this.

Susan's going to have worked, and Susan is gonna pay off her credit card debt by December.

5K, yeah, Susan, Susan's gonna be kind of working through the next debt.

Like, you know, where are you going to be, Susan, in December?

And then when you guys get married,

now, how much of the money that he has saved?

Because he's going to go right back to Baby Step Two once you guys say I do.

And you guys are going to work to pay off the rest of your debt.

But he will use his savings to do that after you're married.

How much does he have?

Okay.

He's probably got...

$20,000, $25,000 saved up now.

Okay, so by December.

What's your car worth?

I know you owe $17,000.

$18,000.

Well, I don't know.

It's probably worth about as much as I owe now.

Okay.

And what do you guys make a year combined?

He actually just had to take a pay cut with a promotion, which is crappy, but it's okay.

He makes about $95 now.

Do I?

Yeah.

95.

He makes that 95.

And what do you make?

And then I'm going to be making probably around $45 if I get to keep the overtime I've been putting in.

If not,

$40.

What do you do?

I'm actually working at just like a manufacturing plant making brackets right now.

It pays better than anything.

I went to school, got a bachelor's degree, but I have no idea what to do with it.

What did you get a bachelor's degree?

Yeah, well, I got you.

I'm going to give you.

I wanted to be a teacher, and then last minute I was like, I don't want to be a teacher.

And so I asked my advisor, what can I do with the credits I have to still graduate?

And so I have an interdisciplinary,

interdisciplinary studies.

The biggest crocker crap in the history of education.

Yeah.

Yeah, I got it.

Okay.

I should have just never went to college.

Hey, can I give you a pre-wedding gift?

I'm going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

It has the get-clear assessment in it.

It only takes about 18 to 20 minutes.

Please take it.

I promise you.

I promise you, it'll give you some clarity going forward.

And if we got to get you back on the show another time to talk about your results, that's fine.

But

you need to be figuring out what I can do.

And I think there's a lot more that you could do than you realize.

I love, by the way, I want to applaud you.

I love that you're in a manufacturing plant and you're putting brackets together.

I've never done this before, but I'm killing it.

You know what?

I actually like it.

You know what?

And that

made my day.

There's no shame in that.

No, and she wants to stay home eventually with the baby.

So I hope you guys get married in December.

I hope you get pregnant.

And I hope by a year from now.

Make some more brackets and then make some babies.

There we go.

And I want y'all debt-free and you can do it all.

And that's what I hope for you, Susan.

But again, the order is really important.

And where people screw up, not just from like a biblical sense, right?

I mean, that's totally fair.

But from the data, like what you're saying, when people mess up this order,

it gets really difficult from a financial standpoint to start to win because things happen in life.

And we want to just safeguard and be wise, Susan.

This is just being wise.

I think some of his hesitation is like he just recently kind of got his life together.

He's always had an amazing work ethic, made six figures, if not close to.

But he struggled with addiction.

And so, I mean, up until about two and a half years ago, he was spending anywhere from $800 to $1,000 a week on his addiction.

And so he's been two and a half years clean.

He's like, I just want to get better.

Yeah,

which is admirable.

Are y'all doing premarital counseling?

I mean, we're going to.

We went to some counseling when he was struggling, and I told him, hey, get clean or I'm gone.

Yeah.

And he did.

It was great.

Yeah, so you guys can take your time, but

don't jump the baby before the wedding either, okay?

Uh-huh.

So be wise.

Thank you so much.

Be wise.

Yeah, I appreciate you.

Wow.

It's back to my rants earlier.

Just be careful, folks.

Be careful who we're married.

We've all done dumb things with money.

I've done them with zeros on the end.

One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it.

You got to have a plan.

You got to be intentional and you need to get a budget.

You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went.

Our budgeting app, EveryDollar, helps you do just that.

It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan for every dollar you've got coming in and going out.

Now's the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan.

Don't let that happen.

You're done making that mistake.

Go download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today.

This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, your work, and your relationships.

I'm Ken Coleman, the lovely, the talented

Rachel Cruz joins me, triple eight eight two five five two two five.

We're here for you.

Let's get going.

We've got Gary.

I hope I'm saying that right in California.

Gary, how can we help?

Yes, you did say that right.

Well, you know, I'm hooked on phonics.

A lot of people don't know this, but a lot of hard work there, Rachel.

How can we help today?

So I think we're going to continue the same with marriage.

It's not my

marriage.

No, it's my mom.

So, yeah, yeah.

So

I'm going to try to make it very clear because it's kind of a messy situation.

But my mom remarried when I was 10, and they broke up within the same year.

And they've kept us on and off relationship of like, I help you, you help me, but totally no

and that just bled in over the last 30 years can you tell us real quick what does that mean on they help each other no benefits like fight financially

financially like my mom's co-signed for cars

filled out forms for him he'll give her rides places

so

everything but

oh everything but cats and dogs I see

I gotcha okay friends no benefits.

That's what you're saying.

Yeah.

Ah.

Well, and then he went and adopted a son when I was 20 years old, so that was about 20 years ago.

And

she became the babysitter.

This is just a absolutely zero boundaries, weird situation.

We got it.

Yes.

Okay.

So I decided, my mom did too, but for her own reasons.

I decided about a year and a half ago to no longer be active in their lives because there's no boundaries.

And,

you know, my husband and I worked to the baby steps years ago and we've worked hard to get to where we're at.

We're not wealthy, but we're very comfortable.

Good.

And

I don't know, I mean, they've never asked me for money, but they, you know, just gave you a snapshot of their financial picture.

They're on, my stepdad's on disability and they live in housing.

And they don't want to help themselves.

Not together, correct?

Are they living together?

Yeah, yeah, because it's his son, but so they live together.

Not my mom, not my mom.

Okay, the stepdad and the son.

Okay, I'm sorry.

Okay, all right, sorry.

I was in the same confusion.

Okay, all right.

Yeah, sorry.

No, you're good.

You're good.

So, but they she recently just stopped deciding to help him with

cough, and yeah, so she's put up a boundary.

And so, what's what's the question for you?

So, his

stepson, who considers me his big sister, which I feel really bad about because I don't feel the same, reaches out every so often, wants that relationship, begs us to call and speak with him.

And for me, I'm just,

their financial storm, their emotional storm keeps bleeding over into our lives.

And I just, I can't carry it anymore.

And I don't know

as a Christian, like, that's really hard for me to accept that it's okay, but it feels mean.

Okay.

I love your heart.

Let me ask this.

How is it, how is your stepdad and the steps and his son, how is their financial situation bleeding over into your life, you and your husband?

How is that specifically happening?

So one big and what made me really make the decision just to at least take a break at the very least.

I helped them find housing, a place that accepts housing, and I got it through a friend's mom.

They broke the rules and they got evicted and this is in the middle of tax season.

I'm a preparer.

He's demanding that I go find him a new

college.

Okay, gotcha.

And I said, that's not my problem.

You broke the rules.

Yeah.

I don't even have time even if I wanted to.

Right.

I'm in the busiest season of my entire career.

Yeah.

Now, okay.

I just wanted to know, yeah, I,

and this is the stepdad that did this.

And not technically even your stepdad, right?

I mean, like, there's not even like a legal.

I mean, they haven't even been together for 20, 30 years.

And when they were, were, it wasn't even

within a year.

Yeah.

It sounds like your mom's unhealthy relationship with him has now become your unhealthy relationship with this man.

You know what I mean?

It's not even like

the stepdad, or whatever this dude, whatever we're going to call him,

he has honored the boundary, but it sounds like his son is the one that's just calling you just relationally.

How old is he, the son?

He's now 19.

Does he ask for money?

No.

Is he manipulative?

In the middle.

Yeah, but is he manipulative in any way?

I think emotionally, because he's like, can you call and talk to him?

He really wants to talk to you.

He's sad.

And I know that he's playing the party a lot.

The triangle.

I knew there was a reason.

And he probably isn't meaning to.

He doesn't know.

He's a 19-year-old kid

with his dad, right?

I'm like, he doesn't know any better.

Well,

Rachel's probably better at this, so I'll get out of her way.

Well, I just, here's the thing.

I think it's okay for you to tell the young man why you want to put a boundary up.

And I think you just, I don't think you smooth talk it.

I think you just go, hey,

you're stuck in the middle, and I'm sorry.

This is not your fault.

But, and I don't want to say anything that makes your dad look bad for my reasons.

It has nothing to do with you.

I need a boundary of separation in talking to you about the family stuff.

Because if he were to just call you and probably say, hey,

how's everybody doing?

And it was just relational.

I have a hunch that you might be okay with that, correct?

Yeah.

But you might.

No, I don't think she really cares.

I mean, I don't think she cares.

Okay, great.

And that doesn't make you a bad person.

I just think it's this random guy that your mom's attached to.

Well, that's why I adopts this guy.

Okay.

And now

he's like, what is happening?

This is not my life.

I can't have a relationship with you.

Just say, I can't have a relationship with you, and I'm really sorry for where I'm at in my life.

You don't have to explain it, by the way.

Because he's not going to like it.

That's why I was mining to see.

Is it that you just don't like when he talks about the dad stuff?

Right, that's right, that's right.

If it's just, I don't need this relationship, you tell him.

There's a great book.

I don't know if we have it.

Do we have boundaries by Henry Cloud on site?

We do not.

You need to get the book Boundaries by our good friend Dr.

Henry Cloud.

I'll tell you what, while you're at it, Buy Necessary Endings.

Read both of those books together, and he will literally, in that book, coach you through it.

Jerry, do you and your husband have kids?

Yeah, we have a 10-year-old and a four-year-old.

Okay.

Man.

What do you think?

Yeah, I mean,

no, I don't think it's too harsh.

I mean, I think there has to be a conversation.

I think it would be cruel to just ghost him, right?

I mean,

I think you do have to tell him and just tell him the situation, Jerry, of like, hey, listen, I, and just, you know, and it's going to be awkward.

It's going to be hard.

Write it out if you have to, just kind of stick to a script because you feel bad for the kid, right?

And you may, Jerry,

and I probably wouldn't make this promise, but in your heart, you know, you may come around in two to three years and who knows what his story unfolds.

And you guys may end up having a relationship and you guys may be able to help them and show him what a healthy life looks like, you know, between two married people and kids.

I mean, I don't know, but that's not your responsibility so hear me say that you don't have responsibility in this this is strings from your mom's

yes you're from your mom's unhealthy relationships that have woven into your life and to cut those is totally fair

but I think too having the heart and the spirit to say yo

God, if there is a place in the future, and if I'm supposed to be in his life, continue to open doors, soften my heart.

And you may have a change of heart later in life.

But right now, you got two kids.

You're both working full-time and yeah i i think that that's fair it's gonna be an awkward hard conversation with you gary

you're a good person do what's right for you

does having more money and less stress sound nice but feel impossible Well, in my brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it.

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You can get Breaking Free from Broke today at ramseysolutions.com slash store.

That's ramseysolutions.com slash store.

Okay, folks, big news.

Just boy, I guess it was Tuesday earlier this week, we launched the Ramsey Show Live.

That means we're going out on the road, taking the show to Chicago and Orlando.

And I've got right here,

fresh off the presses, this is real paper.

Ken's favorite thing to do.

Favorite sound of all time.

Team hates it.

The listeners hate it, but Ken

loves it.

The listeners don't.

Yeah, they do.

They comment, Ken.

Do they really?

I think someone said they comment about the noise.

Is this true?

I'm sorry.

Rush Limbaugh made it famous.

I don't care.

I like it.

But Orlando and Chicago both sold out.

Oh, they're done.

We're going two cities and they are sold out.

So if you wanted to see us in Chicago on the 30th of September, sold out.

Orlando sold out.

So here's what we want to know.

And when we posted,

George and you and I are in Chicago together.

George, John, Jade, in Orlando.

And when we posted our social media thing, it was fun.

People were jumping in the comments, telling us what city they wanted to come to.

So here it is.

Where do you want us to come to next?

Where do you want?

You got to tell us.

Give us some feedback.

Let us know in the comments.

You want us to come to the Big Apple?

We'll go.

We like it.

Start spreading the news.

A little San Diego.

Even today.

A little.

No bugs in San Diego.

I like San Diego.

We'll go San Diego.

Dallas?

We'll go Phoenix.

Oh, I love Phoenix.

We can go Phoenix.

Listen, get a good football team.

Maybe I go to Dallas.

All right.

Sorry, that was unnecessary.

Vegas?

We can see the Backstreet Boys.

Backstreet's back all right.

They launched more dates in February.

Of all the shows to see in Vegas, that's not one I would choose.

It will change your life.

I remember that era.

It was a good era.

It was a good era.

But I don't know that I'd want to see that one.

But I don't know.

I'll play some videos at the break.

Okay.

Oh, yeah.

Rachel just returned.

I'll bring you in.

By the way, girls' trips.

So go to ramseysolutions.com/slash events and click on the link or click on the link in the show notes.

And we want you to tell us, this is your chance to vote, America.

Do you want us to come to your city?

And who wouldn't want me and Rachel and George to come do what we do?

It's just going to be so much fun.

I can't wait.

By the way, way, fun story.

We posted that we were coming to Chicago and I put on there Bring the Deep Dish in the video.

And can I tell you, Malnatis is bringing deep dish pizza to the Chicago show.

They reached out.

So this could turn into a thing where we go to a city and I basically beg for free food.

Because I'm not above it.

I like free food.

Ken likes free stuff.

I do like the free stuff.

I can be bought.

If anybody's wondering, I can.

So there you go.

It's going to be a lot of fun.

What cities, is there a city you would like to go to?

If Rachel, what would be your topic?

Vegas.

I'll go back to Vegas.

Vegas is one.

Give me two more.

Give me Vegas.

I'll go to New York.

New York City.

I like that.

And let's go

Kansas City.

Maybe get a little Taylor spotting.

Really?

I don't know with Travis.

I don't know.

Nobody wants to go to Kansas City.

Kansas City is a great city.

It's a great city.

I'm kidding.

I just wanted to create some fake controversy.

I love Kansas City.

Barbecue's amazing.

Love Kansas City.

Love to go there.

Everybody, don't get offended.

I was just kidding.

Woke Packers.

Oh, if they want us to go there.

Green Bay.

Now, that one I might have to actually say no to.

Green Bay?

There's like one thing to do in Green Bay.

Right there, they live there.

I know.

I'm giving him a hard time.

Absolutely.

I'm giving him a hard time.

Absolutely offensive to people sitting right there.

I kid.

I kid, but it's not a top five.

Right?

I'm going to to go.

It's going to be my fourth.

I'm going to go New York.

I'm going to go Miami.

Ah, great.

And let's go Northeast.

I love Boston.

That's my three.

Just to mix it up.

We're already in New York.

We're kind of already Northeast.

Dude, now you're getting in hot water.

Yeah, don't tell Bostonians that New York and Boston are two, they're just very different cities.

Well, I know they're different cities, but the region is the same.

What's easier to get there?

We do New York one night.

Going up to Boston?

There you have some chowder.

Okay.

What?

You're telling us to go to callers.

Come on.

You're talking too long.

I'm really not.

It's the end of the week.

It's fine.

America loves it.

Andrew is up in Jacksonville.

Andrew, how can we help?

My father is in bad health, and he has a vehicle loan.

He has not driven in a few months, and he is now confirmed that he's probably never going to drive again.

I'm sorry, Andrew.

Thank you.

He owes $62.8

on it.

I've taken it to a few lots.

CarMax offered like $9,000.

My mother, who is in good health, is a co-borrower on it, but she has her own vehicle that's working fine.

And so, in situations like this, what do you do with this vehicle?

Well, I wonder what have you Kelly blue-booked it?

Because your CarMax and all those other places and mostly dealers, they'll try to buy it at wholesale.

Yeah.

what have you, Kelly, blue booked it?

I have not.

Okay, I would do that next.

You're probably still going to be underwater for it.

He probably will.

Does he have any other assets?

What kind of money do your parents have?

Um,

they're well off, I would say.

I mean, I don't really know their financial situation, but

he's retired.

Okay.

He has a really good life insurance policy.

Okay.

The medical team told us, you know, he has three to six months.

Oh, my gosh, Andrew.

I'm sorry.

I guess in this case, I would just choose the least amount of effort.

Like, at this point, you just don't want him, your mom, burning any calories of effort on something like this.

You know, with three to six months to go for sure.

If they've got cash, yeah.

So I would just, I mean, if they have five, six thousand dollars, I would just pay the difference and get rid of the car and just be done.

Yep.

Gotcha.

Be done with it.

Yeah.

Okay.

Because

after he passes,

I mean, that debt will be still owed, right?

Like, it's going to have to true up with his estate and everything.

So you'll have to deal with it one way or the other.

So if they do have the cash,

but I would go private sale.

And again, Andrew, I would probably, to Ken's point, put that maybe on you or one of your siblings to help sell.

Yeah.

Sure.

Private party.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, just take some of their cash and just do the difference.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Because again,

this is all like this is all.

Yeah, does he, but he has

life insurance in place.

How old is he?

76.

76, okay.

And your mom, are they,

do you, as their son and family, do you guys know?

You said you don't really know their financial situation.

Have you guys had any conversations?

Just, I just know with working with families, after someone passes and dealing with the estate and dealing with passwords and code, it's just, there's a lot lot of information that happens.

And I just want to make sure you guys are as well informed just so that the grieving process

goes as simple as possible without mudding with money and financial issues.

Right.

Thank you for that.

Well, so our next step is

we have scheduled some time with an attorney next week.

Okay.

I do know that there is a trust, but we can't find dad's will.

So we're kind of going through that process.

But I know that his life insurance policy will pretty much take care of my mother and everything for the remainder of her life.

But,

you know, I mean, like this, like again, this vehicle thing is kind of small, small

things, but it's a detail and I just didn't know what to do with it.

Yep, yep.

So, yeah, that's what I would do.

And if you guys can't find the will, if there has to be another one put in place, I would, because just going through probate and everything, it just makes that whole situation smoother.

As much documentation as you guys can have.

But I hate hate that this even has to be a conversation for you all i i'm so sorry i understand but you know what it's uh i hope what i hope this conversation that we're having right now helps somebody else's listening yep amen i appreciate that well andrew you uh

you're strong young man so sorry i think i think at this stage it's uh getting all the ducks lined up like we've been talking about and then you and family handle as much as that as you can so that you know quality of life is as good as it can be and let's celebrate and uh i i hate that you're going through this i really i really do thank you yeah thanks for

peace because he's at peace

that's good to know yeah that's good to know wow thank you for calling and sharing that

Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here with a big announcement.

The Ramsey Show Live is going on tour.

This is your chance to no longer just listen on your daily commute, but be in the room where life change happens.

We're removing the wall between caller and audience so you can take part in money confessions, hot takes, and more.

Plus, you'll hear live callers get answers to their pressing questions.

I'll be in Chicago on September 30th alongside George Camill and Ken Coleman.

Then George, Jade Warshaw, and Dr.

John Deloney will be in Orlando on October 2nd.

Tickets start at $39 and are limited to just 300 seats in each city.

So don't wait, especially if you want one of the 50 VIP tickets that includes a meet and greet, the best seats in the house, and more.

It'll be a night full of hope, community, and the kind of energy you can only get in person.

Get your tickets today at ramseysolutions.com/slash the Ramsey Show Live, or just click the link in the show notes.

All right, let's go to the debt-free stage in the lobby, and we've got Michael and Stacey joining us.

Hi, guys, how are you?

Hey, Ken, hey, Rachel, how are you?

Doing well.

Where are you guys from?

Maryland.

We're from Calvert County, Maryland, right outside Washington, D.C.

Okay, very nice.

Right there inside the Beltway.

Okay, very nice.

Okay, well, tell us, you're here to do a debt-free screen, so give us the stats.

How much did you pay off?

We paid off $651,000.

Oh, my gosh.

Whoa.

In about seven years.

Wow.

Okay.

All right.

And what was the range of income?

We started around $200,000, and then

what was it?

We went up to $346.

$346,000.

And then when we paid off the house,

back down to $223,000.

Oh, my gosh.

So the house was part of it.

We had a feeling we gave away the

breakfast.

I wouldn't get that much money.

If you said you had $600,000 of credit card debt, I would

have to do it.

I'm not sure if I could do it a little bit.

Just kidding.

I'm kidding.

Okay, but the house, you guys.

I'm blessed.

Congratulations.

Is that all the house, or was there any consumer debt in that number?

So we had a paid-for rental.

Or not, I'm sorry.

We didn't have a paid-for rental.

We had a rental for $220,000.

We had student loans for $20,000.

Okay.

A credit card, $11,000.

A second mortgage for $60,000.

The home was $340,000.

Okay, yeah, but you got, but half of it was, yeah, everything else.

Look at you.

How incredible.

And seven Dave normally says, I'm looking at weird people, but I don't think you're weird.

I actually think you guys look very, very well adjusted.

Oh, he's weird.

That's funny.

Stacy's like, I'm the nerd.

Michael's a little weird.

I was the nerd.

Yeah, for sure.

Well, you look fantastic.

So, what do you guys do for a living?

Because this income, this is interesting.

200 to 346, back down to 223.

What do you guys do?

Yeah, so I'm a retired cop of 27 years.

I got an Encore job, so I had the pension coming in plus my Encore job, and Stacey was.

I was a VP of Communications and Marketing

for an Association.

Nice.

So what sort of happened was, you know, we had three incomes.

So we had a pension coming in.

We had my...

My Encore job.

Right currently I still have it.

I'm a fraud investigator with the federal government.

Oh, that's fun.

Yeah.

And then,

you know, her job.

So we had three jobs, three incomes coming in.

But once we paid off the house, she got to quit her toxic job.

Yay, Stacey.

Oh, man.

How long ago was that?

I left.

My last day was May 6th.

Okay, so this is fresh.

Yeah.

That's why you look like you're levitating.

Very.

I'm still not, it feels odd.

Like I still haven't.

Yeah.

You're debt free and toxic company free.

That's a double win.

That's a double win.

Yeah.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do with myself.

So

I just bought your book because I'm like, well, now I'm going to see what else I'm fired for.

I'll read.

I can tell you.

What happened seven years ago that caused you guys to think, we want to pay all of this off plus the house, which is crazy.

I literally was laying in bed one night and like, we make all this money.

Where is it all going?

You know, and we're in debt.

What's going to happen to us in retirement?

And I literally was having like heart palpitations.

And

I got on the internet, like, how to get out of debt.

And guess whose face shows up?

It's your dad.

Oh, Papa Dave.

That's right.

Papa Dave.

He's a watcher from the Google.

He's winning the algorithms.

He's winning the algorithm.

So he was yelling at somebody about having a car.

But, you know, I like the old Dave when he's yelling at people.

But anyways, he's nice now.

You should be sitting next to him when he does it.

A lot of fun.

You started watching like YouTube clips.

Is that what?

Or just.

Got hooked on YouTube.

Okay.

And then, so I had a long commute to work.

I worked in Baltimore from Calvary County to Baltimore.

It was like an hour and 15 minutes.

And I did that for quite a long time.

By the way, that's literally the highway to hell.

Can we agree?

That area is just.

I mean.

It's not, you know, it's not my favorite area, right?

I know.

You're being favorite.

I wasn't a cop at.

Well, that's a whole other story.

Yeah, you have a different perspective on that statement.

Listen, I could tell you stories, but I'm going to go past the nine minutes.

Keep going.

Yeah, but I mean,

during during that drive, I was introduced to the podcast.

I listened to the podcast, and Dave was like on my podcast every day for to work and from work.

Oh, wow.

Oh, my gosh.

And that got you fired up.

And that was seven years ago.

So, yeah, we're talking like 2018-ish.

Do you come home?

So do you come home and tell Stacey about this guy who's yelling at people?

And Stacey, what was your reaction to this?

He kind of got into it before I did.

He kind of had to convince me, but because I was like, oh, who is this?

And what is this?

Who is this coming out?

But the more I started listening to it, I was like, oh, God, this makes sense, right?

Like, this really makes sense.

And so I kind of got on board.

So he was the instigator.

I was a little bit hesitant at first, but then I was like, oh, yeah, this makes total sense.

And then once you started to see the progress, right?

Yeah.

And the good things happening, it's like, oh, man, we could do this.

It's actually, yeah, it's working.

Yeah.

It's working.

Yeah.

So what do you tell people from your journey is the key to getting out of debt?

You know, you know, people come up and say, you know, the budget, yes, the budget is important.

And yes, you know, lifestyle changes and sacrifice is important.

But one key thing I think is like people say, oh, obsession.

You're obsessed with this.

Obsession is not a bad thing.

As long as you don't put it before God and your family, you can get obsessed and focused on something to get it done.

Maybe steps one, two, and three

was like, you know, my hair was on fire.

That's what happened.

Hold on, That might be a bad analysis.

Me and Dave have a lot of common in there.

But steps one, two, and three, like super focused, super concentrated on.

But steps four, five, and six, it's more like a long distance run.

Yeah.

You know, and finally it's over.

You know, this marathon's over.

Okay, so how many years was paying off the house?

Because you guys paid off, I mean, close to what, 200, 300 of consumer,

and then you went into the house.

So

how long was that?

What was the journey?

Honestly,

we got into, we got rid of the consumer debt fairly quickly, like 18 months or something.

Yeah, you know, yeah, and then the rest of it was all-house.

Okay, so about the last five years or so was just thrown.

And what and how did you guys do it?

Because people ask this a lot.

Yeah.

Because people do it different ways.

Did you guys do a specific, you know, extra mortgage payments, like a goal per year or per month?

Like, what did that look like?

So essentially

any extra money, like Dave says, you have extra money coming in, throw it at the house, throw it at the house.

So any overtime money, and also, remember, I got another job with the pension coming in.

We didn't touch the pension, we just sent whatever check came in at the beginning of the month.

You just went straight to the house, straight to the house, extra principal extra house.

Yeah, that's nice.

We took our foot off the gas.

I mean,

baby steps four, five, and six, we took our foot off the gas, went to like vacation and stuff like that.

Yep, which you should do.

Treated yourself a little bit, which is great.

Yes,

okay.

And a daughter over here, I see.

Yes, yep.

Okay,

how old is she?

She is 14.

14, yes.

Come on, come on.

You're beautiful.

I know.

Beautiful, taller than me.

Who is this?

I'm also wearing you.

Quinn.

Quinn.

Quinn, okay.

How old is Quinn?

Quinn's 14 years old.

Oh, my God.

Okay, she doesn't have a mic, so it's going to be hard, but I'll have your parents.

What was the process?

What was the power?

Having a teenager in the house, how did all that work?

Was all that, how did the family dynamic work?

She was really kind of on board.

I mean, she's still a teen, right?

She still loves shopping and everything, but we all kind of gave up a little bit and sacrificed a little.

And

she definitely did her fair share of sacrificing clothing.

She understood the budget.

Yes.

Nails.

And y'all talked about it.

It was open.

And

as a family, this was the goal.

And as a family, we were doing this.

And it was easier to talk about

giving her the perspective of this is why it's going to be worth it.

100%.

Yes.

We are baby step millionaires, multi-millionaires now.

So congratulations on that.

Well, you've set a great legacy and a great example for Quinn.

And hopefully she'll find a debt-free guy.

Oh, she already knows.

Yeah.

I'm with you.

I'm with you, Dad.

I feel you, man.

I got it.

All right.

Well, that is so cool.

Well, you guys ready?

Is she like the cool teenager?

I've got a 16-year-old.

Are you going to really scream here or is this going to be cool, Quinn?

They're asking if you're going to scream or you'd be too cool to scream.

Oh, I'm going to scream.

Quinn.

I love it.

We love a dedicated team.

Let's do it.

So we've got Michael, Stacey, and Quinn in the Annapolis Beltway area of Maryland, paid off $651,000 over seven years, making from $200,000 up to $346, back down to $223, and they are free.

Let's hear your debt-free screen.

Three, two,

one.

We're debt-free.

Yeah.

All right, well done.

Very nice.

She joined in.

So great.

How fun.

Oh, my gosh.

That's a lot of money.

A lot of money.

And that's a long time.

That's some perseverance right there.

Yes.

And the obsession, it's what you got to do.

You got to stay focused.

So great.

Oh, and it's what they did.

Incredible family.

Absolutely incredible.

Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 17, verse 17.

A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for a time of adversity.

And our quote of the day, I think, was hijacked by Rachel Cruz, a well-known Swifty.

This is from her boyfriend, Travis Collins.

One of the greatest greatest tight ends of all time.

Got to give him some love.

He's not just her boyfriend.

If you don't care about the guy next to you, he says, one,

you're a terrible toommate.

Teammate, actually.

Two, you're never going to win.

There we go.

Travis, way to go.

Pretty life-changing.

Thanks, Travis.

Maybe Travis should stick to football and not quotes.

I don't know.

But it was good.

There's a nugget of truth there.

Melanie from Connecticut is joining us.

Melanie, how can we help?

Hi, how are you?

We're doing well.

What's going on with you today?

Good.

Good.

So I have a concern.

I have a situation I've been dealing with for a few years now.

And I'm at a point where I don't know.

I don't think I'm okay with it continuing, and I think it will continue.

And the basics of it is,

you know, how can I get my husband to get our older son to pay for his own bills?

How old is your son?

He just turned 21.

I've been asking my husband to, you know, get him to pay for his own bills, nothing else, his own bills since he was 18.

He's been fully employed since he was 16.

You know, doesn't really manage his money very well, gets into unnecessary debt,

you know, has been having trouble keeping a job, will not do, you know, my husband and I both have a full-time and then do part-time gigs,

and he just cannot handle that.

He's not a student, and so because the bills are not under his name, when he doesn't have a job or he's underemployed,

it doesn't face him because they're under our name.

What bills does he have?

car insurance and cell phone does he live with you all

he does okay and he's been he's been full-time so he starts at 16.

i i feel like it's relevant so give me a little latitude here why is he full-time work at 16 and not in high school

no no no no he was he had his part-time job when he was 16.

he graduated and has had a full-time sensor because that sounds responsible i mean you know what i mean like the trajectory sounds good What kind of work has he been doing?

He started with, you know, like coffee shops, then mechanic work.

That part is okay.

The issue I find is that because the bills are not under his name, the actual papers that are coming under his name, he doesn't have the will or willingness or need to pay them.

And my husband, you know, ask him to pay it.

I remind him.

We fight about it.

Nothing happens.

All right, so let me ask you this.

If they're in his name, if he did not pay a cell phone bill, then they would turn the cell service off, yes?

Correct.

So why don't we just let that happen?

Because it's one of those family plans,

and so it affects me.

Right.

But what can we not get him on his own?

Like, he doesn't, he's not on the family plan.

He's on his own plan.

He's 21.

First of all, he shouldn't be living at home anymore.

And I know what's going on here.

This is a marriage issue because your husband is just not willing to make make this kid.

What's your husband's reasons?

What does he say?

You know what?

I have a lot of compassion for my husband.

We took a trip to his home country a few years back, and I know where he comes from.

He comes from a lot of need and poverty.

And,

you know, part of it, I think, has made him the man he is.

He's a lovely man, home worker.

He just wants to take care of his family because he's able to now.

And so there's, yeah, yeah, so, yeah, that makes sense.

So, I think realizing,

yeah, and I will say, Melanie, I'll give you like a little bit of just like breathing room.

I mean, he's 21.

If he was

30, you know what I mean?

Like, like from an age perspective, he's young.

He's 21.

I agree.

He doesn't have his feet up under him from a from a job standpoint.

He didn't go to school.

Is that right?

No.

degree, which is fine.

I was clarifying.

So, so we need to find so, so as parents, and I don't have a a 21-year-old, so I will say that.

As parents, I would think stepping in and helping him find

and helping him find himself, learning what am I good at?

A lot of kins material is so good at this, but being an assistant to help him long-term figure out a career path that's gonna help him instead of him jumping from coffee shop to coffee shop, let's actually sit down and create a game plan together so he has some stability and direction.

And then, once that happens, that's good for him from a dignity standpoint.

And then we're going to fly and we're going to have to learn how to be an adult, right?

But I don't know.

Is he racking up debt with credit cards or anything like that?

Nothing crazy.

The biggest thing that he has is his car payment, which is pretty high.

So a little bit of backstory.

Both of our kids, we gave them a car when they were 16, a beat up card.

I think we spent more than $1,000 on their cars.

Sure.

For them to be able to do the part-time jobs and school, all that stuff.

and so he wanted to buy the flashy card and i i said no i said as during uh my husband was going to co-sign for it i said no and so then he still went on and did it when he was about 19

and my husband said i so because he was so young the car insurance was going to be up to the proof so my husband kind of like agreed to put him under our car insurance so it will be a lower rate

and you know, that's fine for a little while until he gets some, you know, credit X, but he hasn't hit him under our name yet.

No, I get it.

Y'all need some time frames.

Y'all need to put some plan in place.

This is just floating around.

I agree, but

you cannot put a plan in place if you guys aren't in agreement on the plan.

And the fundamentals of this plan are you're very nice.

He seems like a very good man, but you guys are not operating from the same system on this situation with this kid, your kid.

So you have one view.

I think it needs to be this.

I think he needs to be doing this.

Your husband has a completely different view, and it's understandable.

Rachel wrote a great best-selling book.

I'm looking at it right now.

Know yourself, Know Your Money.

In fact, I'm going to give you Rachel's book because I actually want both of you to read this.

I think it is actually one of a, it's a fundamental book for couples who aren't on the same page about money.

Before you get on the same page, you've got to be able to understand each other.

He comes from a scarcity view.

Entrepreneurship.

She wrote a book on it.

I'm going to give you the book.

I'll let her speak to it.

But actually, I'll segue to Rachel, but here's what I'm getting at.

This is a marriage problem.

In other words, we're just not communicating well and aligned in this particular part of marriage, which is our...

21-year-old son.

I think getting with a professional therapist where it's safe, everybody's psychologically safe, and we can get to the root of this so that you understand your husband and have, and you do, you have compassion for him, but you need to understand.

And then he needs to understand how you feel.

Yeah.

And then let a professional who's unbiased walk you through where the boundaries need to be here.

And then and only then, Rachel, do I think we establish a plan?

Yeah.

And I think, you know, sitting down and you guys figuring out what's the end goal, and my assumption is, I could be wrong, is that we want our son to be successful in life, right?

Be on his own.

Like, I think every parent, I think,

you know, that what that's the end goal.

And so, how do we get there?

And to Ken's point, how we get there is navigating two totally different routes, and we don't want that.

And so, for you and your husband, yeah, to sit down and if you need a third party, bringing someone in, yes, do that.

But figuring out, okay, what is the best way to get him from where he is now, not very responsible, not really holding down a job?

He's 21.

How do we help assist

in helping him flourish as an adult?

And I think what Rachel said is so smart.

I want to applaud you because I think it's a mix between total tough love and total grace.

The husband is all grace and mercy, and you're like, get him out.

He's working at 16.

Right.

He needs to be paying his insurance at 19.

And so I think there is a balance there, Rachel.

Yep, absolutely.

Absolutely.

But yeah, you and your husband get on that same page.

And I think your hearts are both in a good spot.

But remember, we wanting to help him, not harm him, is the goal.

And if you go your husband's route all the way, I think that's more harm than good.

So, hang on the line.

Kelly's going to get you a copy of Rachel's number one bestseller: Know Yourself, Know Your Money.

Each of you read it, and I share it with your son.

Let him read it.

Figure this thing out.

Then we're all on the same page as a family.

Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for the Ramsey Show Live.

Yep, you heard me right.

We are taking this show to you.

This is going to be everything you love about the Ramsey Show, except you get to be a part of it.

Part of what, George?

The Ramsey Show Live.

Again, that's what I'm telling them about.

Ramsey Show Live in here?

Nope, we're doing it on the road.

You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz, September 30th.

Are you free?

The windy city.

I like it that time of year.

You know what else I like, George?

I like the deep deep dish.

Oh, okay.

Maybe we'll have some deep dish.

You mind if I finish the promo?

Is that okay with you?

Okay.

Okay.

Appreciate that.

Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there.

George, are you in here talking about Tiara's Live?

I am, Jade.

I'm trying to talk about it.

Nice.

So that means it's actually happening, right?

It's happening.

If I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition.

Listen, just tell me when and where.

You don't know?

Okay, we're going to Orlando.

You're going to join Dr.

John Deloney and I October 2nd.

Yes.

Okay, great.

I'm going to go go pack now.

Please, please do that.

Go pack.

Hey, George, speaking of packing, is this like sweater weather or is it not that cold yet in Chicago?

What is happening?

Can I please just get to how they buy the tickets?

Geez, I thought it was a good question.

Okay, this is not an arena tour.

This is a one-night-only event in Chicago and Orlando.

General admission is only 39 bucks.

Plus, there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that.

But here's the thing, there's only 300 seats available.

So get your tickets now at ramseysolutions.com/slash events.

Hey, how come you get to go to both cities?

I just go where they tell me, man.

Hey, have you been there the entire time?

Maybe.

Okay, and also, are you reading a children's book?

I'm expanding my mind, George.

That's how we got those PhDs.

Yeah, that's probably where you got that jacket.

Okay, see you on the road, John.