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Normal is broke, and common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help you with your life and your money.

We're taking calls.

If you want to call in, the number is 888-825-5225.

We'll get you on the line.

I'm Jade Warshaw.

Next to me, George Camill in the place to be.

I can't wait.

This is going to be fun.

Do the people know?

They know.

Yeah, my wife and I, we just had our second baby, a beautiful little boy named Henry.

So I'm coming into the show because I just needed to get out of the house, Jade.

Listen, I wondered about that.

Okay.

We got a lot of help at home.

So she's doing great.

Mom's doing great.

Baby's doing great.

We got applause in the lobby here.

Thank you guys so much.

So, so great.

I'm glad you're here with me in the co-pilot seat, George.

Let's take off to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where we've got James on the line.

What's up, James?

Well, congratulations on the new baby.

Oh, thank you.

You're very welcome.

So I just inherited $750,000 in a Roth IRA.

Wow.

From who?

I'm going to buy a new home,

mainly because of the neighborhood I'm currently in.

It's time to find a new one, and the spouse would like to be farther out in rural central Pennsylvania.

What I'm trying to figure out is what is

a good amount to pay for a home.

We've got a little disagreement of about 50 to 75,000 on what we should spend.

Wow.

So you know that you know, Barna and hey, I want to spend this money on a house, and you're just like, How much should we spend?

Have you kind of looked at

real estate in your area to find out, okay, we're looking for a three-bedroom, we're looking for this, and this is what it costs?

Yeah, oh, yeah, I've been on the MLS probably three hours a night for the last two weeks.

And what are you finding?

I'm finding a lot of prices coming down on homes that I didn't think I could afford a month ago

or that I wanted to pay for a month ago.

A lot of areas, and I've, and I've

pretty much tossed away homes that definitely need a lot of work or we don't have good pictures.

or I was a realtor 20 years ago and I'm astonished at some of the

pictures they put on the MLS.

I'm like, my God, buy a camera.

Come on.

So you're finding what's your current house worth?

Yeah.

$160,000.

It's worth $160,000.

And is it paid for outright or do you owe on it?

No,

I owe $80,000 on it.

I've got a 2.5% mortgage.

I had the stupid thought of renting it after I buy another one, but the more I listen to the sale, the more I'm thinking, nope, I'm just going to sell the thing when I'm done and be done with it.

So, what's the plan?

Is the plan that we're taking the proceeds of the current home sale and we're adding it to the $750 and we're spending that and buying the house in cash?

Or tell me what you're doing.

No, we're going to buy the house in cash and we'll put the current home up for sale six months from now or whenever.

That's not that big of a rush.

So tell us the problem.

Well, I'm trying to figure out out of that $750 because the rest of the money, I'm going to to work for five more years before I hit 67 and retire.

My spouse is 30 years younger than I am.

I want to make sure the house is paid for.

They've got no debt.

When I die and pass on to the great heavens, the only thing they're going to have is a spousal Social Security to live off of and whatever they're making.

They're a stay-at-home artist.

Okay, so

that's where I want to camp out.

That's where I want to camp out.

So your spouse is 30 years younger.

You've got the 750.

Is this the only money to your name, or do you have other

401k retirement money elsewhere?

No, I have not had any type of work benefit

in 15 years.

I make $120,000 a year

consistently.

I work 65, 70 hours a week.

So

this is the part where I'm not so sure I agree that you should spend the majority of this on buying a house.

Because A.

Well,

we're not thinking that either.

The issue is my spouse wants to spend maybe $225.

I'm thinking, no, let's go $325.

And that's where we're at.

Because it makes a huge difference in Central PA on what type of house we're going to get.

Sure.

So what would you do with the rest of the money?

Let's say you did $325.

It's sitting in a Vanguard EFTs and it's going to sit there.

Okay, and that becomes your retirement account, essentially?

Your nest egg?

Correct.

Yes.

So are you plugging those numbers in?

So, George, how old are you now?

I'm sorry how old are you now current age

62 okay so let's say you let this ride to 80

okay and you have zero you have zero in it now how much will be in there once you let's say how much are you gonna dump into that account

about

like about probably

10,000 a year, 15,000 a year.

I can put anything whatever because I have no debt now.

I thought you were going to do like hundreds of thousands.

No debt.

Why not dump like 400,000 in there there and let compound growth do its thing for the next 18 years?

Right.

Because that would give you, let's say you did 400 grand in there, that's 2.4 million when you're 80.

Nice.

That's not a bad legacy to pass on to your loved ones.

Yeah, because you're still going to have the money from the home sale, too.

So you're going to have plenty.

You sell the house, you're going to pay off the mortgage as part of the sale and have some equity left over.

Do you have anything in savings?

Do you have a fully funded emergency fund right now?

My emergency fund will come out of this $750,000 because I've never had one and I know I need one.

But you said you've been making six figures for a while now?

Right.

And I was paying down, I was $142,000 in debt up until a month ago.

Oh, wow.

You spent the last decade just cleaning up a mess.

Exactly.

Okay.

I just wanted to make sure that we don't have a spending problem here to where you just spend this money within the next decade.

Right, right.

Understood.

And what about your spouse?

Do they work?

You said they're an artist.

Yes, but they don't spend any money at all.

It's almost impossible to get them to spend even 20 bucks.

Yeah, but do they make money?

Not a lot.

$20,000, $25,000 a year.

Listen, I want to find out how you can live on $20 and be that frugal.

That's wild.

That takes starving artists to a whole new level.

Yeah, that does take it to a whole new level.

Let me just tell you this.

With the situation that you're telling me, I'm going to just tell you what I think and you can take it or leave it.

I think the spouse needs to find some way to bring in some money.

I don't think you can just not do anything.

And I don't think it's a fair argument to say, well, they don't spend any money, therefore they don't need to make any money because they do spend money.

And even if you don't view it that way, you're the one who called in and said, Hey, I want to make sure they have something more, not just social security, right?

So that person can help contribute to that.

They've got 30 years on you to start putting towards that.

So I think that's a conversation that you need to have because the truth is this money was

a windfall, right?

It wasn't something that you worked to get and you guys got lucky to get this money.

So I don't want you to have to rely on luck anymore.

I want you to rely on, okay, we can have the wherewithal to do what we need to do to make sure we're set up very, very well.

So that's my two cents.

And I do think

there's some frugality, scarcity mentality with your spouse here that I think needs to be dealt with.

And I don't know if that's therapy.

I don't know what happened in her past, but it sounds like there's something here where she goes, I'm scared of having too much, I don't know if I can handle it.

So, get to the root of that and figure out what's actually going on there.

Because I think what you're saying is reasonable: a $300,000 home in 2025.

Everyone's going, Well, sure, yeah, that's nothing.

Yeah, you could do that.

And matter of fact, I want you to check out our

Ramsey Trusted site.

You can look at the housing market in your area.

It's going to keep you up to date on the U.S.

housing trends, up-to-the-date information.

And also, you can go on there to help you find a real estate agent in your area when you are ready to buy.

So, check that out.

Yeah, be smart with this money.

$750,000, it's a lot of money, but if you're not smart with it, especially when you're talking about something like house, real estate purchases, it can be gone in two seconds.

You're gone with the wind.

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To the phone lines we go where we have Jesse in Maui, Hawaii.

What's up, Jesse?

Hi.

Congratulations on the new baby.

Oh, thank you, Jesse.

So kind.

This is a fun day for me.

It is.

Everyone's so nice.

I know.

How can we help, Jesse?

So I have started following you guys, like literally eating, breathing, sleeping, Ramsey.

Are you drank the coolest?

Yeah,

I'm deep.

But I want to just confirm if I indeed have to downsize my home

in order to survive this situation.

Yeah, tell us more.

Tell us what do you make every month?

Yeah.

Well, currently I'm making $6,000 with my part-time.

I'm a nurse, but about three years ago I got a divorce plus an injury.

And so I went I was at 135

and

I was able to do everything, but w I assumed the debt for the divorce and I was unemployed with the injury with no income for several months.

Oh, shoot.

So now I'm working.

So yeah, so I'm at the low end of a nurse's spectrum, but I am applying and trying to find something that I can do.

Are you able to work full-time now?

Yeah, I'm full-time, but I'm not able to work like a floor,

you know, like hospital kind walking.

Yeah, so that limits your income

to a different role.

Yeah.

Okay.

How long?

Yeah, so I am, yeah.

How long till you feel like you would be at kind of an optimal nurse's salary and what would that be amount-wise?

If I got the position that I'm trying to apply for, I'd make probably $10,000 to $11,000 starting, maybe $10,000 a month starting.

And what's your mortgage payment every month?

Supplement.

$39,000.

I'm sorry, $29,000.

No, I'm sorry, $29,000 in change.

Even still.

So right now it's about half of your income.

Yeah, but

I have an $1,100 HOA, which is starting in January, going up.

And I have the debt.

You must have a nice house.

You have parent-plus loans.

I do.

I like my house.

And

I was like, yesterday I was okay.

I was like, no, I can downsize.

I can sell and go get a condo, one-bedroom condo.

But then this morning, I'm like, I like my house.

What's the total payment with the $1,100 HOA?

So it comes out.

Oh, I'm sorry.

You said 29.

You said 29 includes the HOA.

No, the HOA is separate, and they're raising it to $1,100.

So

it's going to be $4,000 a month here shortly.

Yeah.

Okay.

Which is like

69% of my income according to the dollar.

Yeah, I mean, you can't live like that.

So

the question is, in reality,

the grandest scheme of reality, how quickly can you get to this $10,000 payday?

And when I say get to it, I mean you're taking the check home.

Well, it's with the state.

I applied for a job with the state.

So

I don't have control, even if I.

I put out some failers with somebody who works in the department to try to seal out, you know, to keep my application.

And they said they try to contact somebody.

And that's, but yeah, that's the only line you have in the water?

Yeah, because.

Okay.

And how long has it been there?

How long since you applied?

I I just applied last week.

Okay.

So

we've got to,

why I'm asking these questions and why I'm being so direct is we've got to kind of have a breaking case of emergency button here to where you can't go on with this being 69% of your income for much longer.

So if you said to me, Jade, I applied for this thing a week ago and I'm giving myself three weeks.

If I don't, if I'm not pretty much 100 that this job is happening, I'm moving.

And I feel like that because, hey, this is your only line in the water.

It's not like you're telling me, hey, I've got a lot to choose from.

One of these is going to pan out.

You've got one line in the water, and it's been a week.

You haven't heard anything, and you're not really sure what lever you can pull to make it happen.

Is what I'm gathering.

I have to go back to my original salary.

I have to go back to basically middle management or higher.

And that's kind of what killed me in the first place.

And why I was, I took a, I was going to take a break from it and go.

Yeah, I don't want you to take take a job that kills you just to keep a house you like.

That's not worth it.

Your quality of life will go down.

And not to mention, let's just be honest, even with the $10,000 a month, a $4,000 payment is still higher than what it should be.

And it's not going down.

Yeah.

With insurance and property taxes and HOA, that payment's only going to increase

until you pay off the mortgage.

So I think, as my friend Dr.

John Deloney would say, we need to grieve the picture you had of your life where you were 100% healthy, married.

Here's what our life's going to look like.

We have have this beautiful home that we can afford.

And now there's a different picture.

And so I think we have to kind of choose reality and go, okay, what can I afford right now?

Maybe one day we'll get back to this beautiful home or something like it.

But right now, you got to do what's best for you, especially with a pile of debt to clean up.

How much is the debt?

Yeah.

With the parent pluses that aren't in my name, but legally, I think I'm responsible for them.

No.

Well, you signed the, did you co-sign for that parent plus loan?

Someone did.

Yeah, it's in my ex-husband's name.

Oh, you said you assumed all the debt?

I agreed that I would pay it so that he wouldn't touch the house.

Okay, so it's part of the divorce agreement.

Yeah, that's when I was still working.

Like, I left him debt-free.

And if you sold the house, could you pay off all of your debt?

What's the total debt,

excluding the mortgage?

$199,000.

Okay, so you owe $99,000.

$199,000.

What's the house worth and what do you owe?

I owe

$323,000

and

I could

I'm crossing my fingers to put it on the market for $1.2.

Okay, okay, good.

So you would clear the debt and probably have enough money to purchase something in cash.

Yeah, I was hoping to downsize

to go to like a one-bedroom condo.

Condo prices are dropping in Maui because of the fires and

just there's new legislation about Airbnbs and such.

So I was thinking

if I sold,

I could get a one-bedroom condo maybe for like $500.

Could clear some of this debt to

you'd be in a very different place.

Because here's the thing, even if you were able to pay the debt off, you still have the same problem in front of you.

The mortgage is just simply too high for your income.

And unless you see it going up to $1,500, $16,000 in the near future, it's still going to be a lot of your take-home pay, taking away from your goals to pay off debt, get the emergency fund, invest for the future.

Exactly.

And if you're married again, we'll reassess the picture.

Sure.

So the $99,000, that's it for you.

Yeah, that's including the parent pluses that I agreed to assume.

Yeah.

Listen, I think that's the move.

I've got a single name, but

I think that's the move.

You've got an opportunity here.

You clear this mortgage.

It's a headache for you anyway.

You take some of the money that you're you're gonna gain here, you pay off the 99,000, you find something that you can afford in cash.

And if it takes a while, if you say, Hey, I'm gonna rent for a bit until I maybe save up a little bit more if you need to, then so be it.

I think right now, to George's point, you're starting a brand new life.

And the good news is you've got some equity to build that life off of, but you also have time.

Like there's nothing that says I have to, now you do need to get out of this current house, but there's nothing that says that you need to hurry up and buy the the next one.

You can take some time and really decide what that, what a new property looks like in this phase of life.

And I like that for you.

I'm breathing the freedom of having $800,000 to

take $500,000, throw it at a home, $300,000 left over, take 50 of that for an emergency fund, and you still have a quarter million down payment for a future home.

And so I love this.

I breathe easier just thinking about that for her versus I make six and I owe four every single month.

Am I going to be able to eat and pay down my debt?

You know, what you're saying, George,

some of the hardest advice that I feel like we have to give is to tell somebody to sell their home, but it's kind of like, what are you trading?

Because when you call in, you know, you're full of anxiety, you're full of stress.

The payment is about to, you know, knock your block off.

And so it's like you're so focused on wanting to keep your kung fu grip on that house.

But if you would just let it go, like you said, you can finally breathe.

The stress is gone.

You don't have that crazy payment again.

And you've given yourself the opportunity to get something that actually is sized right for your lifestyle for your budget listen that's a win-win make that view a screensaver for now and put it on your vision board we'll get back to it no time but right now we got to clean this mess up we're wishing you the best

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All right, let's go to Nicole, who is in Ohio.

Hey, Nicole, what's up?

Hi, how are you guys?

Doing good.

How can we help?

Good.

So, I have a kind of not really quick question.

So, I am

currently in school.

I'm set to graduate at the end of this year.

I left my job a year ago.

My husband was making 60 grand a year.

Very recently found out

I'm pregnant with twins.

I've already got three kids.

Wow.

Yeah.

However, here's where it starts getting a little wild.

We had a recent

chain of domestic events, so I now have a protection order against my soon-to-be ex-husband.

I'm filing for divorce.

Oh, my goodness.

So sorry.

And I mean, with me,

so I'm not working.

I'm not set to graduate till later this year.

And I have no savings.

I have my only income is child support from my first two kids.

So I guess I'm kind of just like,

I don't really know what my next steps are.

My parents, luckily, I

rent from a family member, a home from a family member.

So like that asset was protected.

Me and the kids are, we're safe now, and that's where we are.

But there's been talk of like, should I just go on state benefits until these two babies are born?

Should I go ahead and try to find a job now, even though I'm in school full-time?

Like, I just, I don't really know what to do.

Well,

I'm sorry that you're going through this.

This is really tough.

I want to clarify a couple of things you said just to make sure I understand everything.

So, pregnant with twins, and that's from the soon-to-be ex, but there's another, there's another person from the other two babies that's paying you child support.

Did I understand that correct?

Okay.

Yes.

And you've not filed for divorce with your current ex, right?

It's just you're separated?

I'm actually filing this week.

Okay, so you're filing this week.

Because what I'm trying to account for is the no savings and the this and the that.

Because the sooner that we can kind of get this wrapped up, do you think this is going to be a thing where it's like lawyers and all this, or do you think it's something you can do in mediation and just get it done?

I think he is going to fight it.

So I have already contacted a lawyer.

And actually, I took out a loan from a family member to pay for my retainer.

Like I said, that's actually all going through this week.

Okay.

But I have a feeling he's going to try to drag it out.

So, okay.

Can you give us a picture of what you guys' financial picture is?

Like, how much debt is there?

Is there any money between the two of you?

Is there any assets?

Can you tell us that right quick?

So kind of luckily, there won't be many assets to split.

Me personally, I do have student loans.

I'll have about sixty grand when I'm done.

Um

but as far like the cars paid off, the house is you know in a family member's name.

Um there was no

big bank accounts, nothing like that.

Um

which I guess it kind of paid off to be a little broke.

So you'll likely walk away from this with sixty grand in your student loans and no money in the bank?

Is that what you're assuming?

Okay.

Yes.

What are you going to school for?

Nursing.

Okay.

And that's done in December?

Yes.

And you can immediately get a nursing job or you need to take the exam?

I will have to take the National Board, State Board.

But other than that, yeah.

And we've actually been encouraged to go ahead and start applying now, which I have,

not as a nursing job, but I've applied for a position within a hospital.

I'm just waiting to hear back.

Okay.

And then what does childcare look like for five kids?

So

my parents are both retired, so they watch the three now,

and they'll watch these two when they're born.

Great.

Wow.

That's a blessing in this nightmare, at least.

Yeah.

Okay.

And they've committed to say, hey, we're going to watch all five

at no charge, or do you pay them?

Nope.

I jokingly, when my mom quit her job, I was like, well, now you get paid in love.

And she was like, yes, I do.

Wow.

Listen, that right there is enough to answer the question that you asked before.

Because before you said, hey, do I need to go on basically government assisting?

And so for me, I'm thinking, okay, your housing is covered because this is a family member's house that you're living in.

You've got childcare, which for a lot of us is the next biggie.

So out of your four, what I'm going to call five walls in this case, since of the child care, out of those five walls, now we only have to cover.

food, transportation, right?

Keeping the utilities going.

Are you working?

Is there any way that you can work at all?

Because you got to have something coming in and do school on the side.

Is there any way to make that happen?

Yeah, and like I did apply for a hospital job.

It's not a nursing job yet, but they did say that like a role transition would be an option.

Oh, great.

Do you know what that role would pay?

Is it more administrative?

It's probably, it's like 18 to 22 an hour would be my guess.

Okay.

And how many hours a week do you think?

About 24 because I'm in school full-time.

I will actually next, we're getting ready to start our next quarter, so I'll be in school

three,

sometimes four days a week.

Okay, but you could still bring in, you know, $1,500 to $2,000 a month doing that part-time, which lets you survive through this period while finishing school.

I would encourage you, because you're this close and you have that childcare provided, I would finish because this income is going to be your path to freedom.

Yep.

To getting rid of these loans.

Yes, not finishing school isn't an option.

It's just a matter of can I balance the school because nursing school is really hard on top of being pregnant with twins.

When did one of the twins do?

They are due in March.

Okay.

Ooh, if you can make it to the finish line, and I listen, twins is a whole other set of circumstances.

You know, if you can get these first, you know, four or five, four months and keep working, keep going to school, I don't, I'll I'll be honest with you.

I don't know how long that's going to last carrying twins.

Hopefully, you're able to go till term.

How old are you?

33.

Okay.

Hopefully, you're able to go till term, finish out at least your school year

and get that going.

But listen, that's my prayer.

Cause if you can do that, yeah, you can avoid government assistance.

You've got so many people in your corner that seem to be willing to help you out.

If you can avoid that, because it's a trap.

So if you can avoid that at all costs, I would.

But if you hit a a point where it's like, hey, the doctor's telling me I can't be on my feet, doctors tell me I have bed rest, something like that.

Listen, no one's going to judge you.

You need insurance.

Like, don't go a day without insurance.

Do you have good insurance right now?

And will you lose that?

No, I'm actually, I am on

like marketplace insurance right now.

Okay.

And who's paying for that?

I am.

Okay.

And with the child support income, is that all you have right now?

Yes.

What is that?

That's less than, it's like $240 a week.

Okay.

So it's like

it's enough to pay the house payment and that's about it.

Okay.

So, you know, you take that $1,000 a month, you add to it, you know, you're 20 hours a week making 20 hours, $20 an hour at the other job.

You can make this happen.

The question is just how long, you know, and how will you feel throughout this pregnancy as it continues on?

So just my advice is make the most of it as early on as possible, right?

Don't wait another second to get this part-time job going.

Don't wait another second.

Keep applying for those nursing positions.

So, the moment that you can take it, you're there, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

Oh, boy.

Nicole, if you can survive this, nothing's going to stop you in the future.

This is the hardest season of your life, hopefully, and it's only going to be better from here on out.

But you've got great support.

We're cheering you on to make it through this, hopefully, quickly, and as unscathed, unscathed as you can be while taking care of all these kiddos.

Yeah.

Oh, we're thinking about you.

You're in our thoughts and prayers.

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What I want to know is, are you staying on track with the baby steps?

Yes.

Oh, that wasn't for me, was it?

Well, George, I sure hope you are for crying out loud.

You couldn't stop me if you tried.

I know I couldn't.

But I want to know, the folks out there, yeah, you listening, are you staying on track with the baby steps?

Do you even know?

Because if you don't, you need to take a quick quiz to check your progress.

And when you take that quiz, you will receive a personalized plan that's just for you.

In order to do that, simply head to the show notes and click on the link that's titled, Are You on Track with the Baby Steps?

And you can complete the quiz, which I hope you do.

All right, let's go straight to the phone lines where Carly is in Annapolis, Maryland.

Hey, Carly, how can we help today?

Hey, guys, thanks so much for taking my call.

I was hoping to get an unbiased opinion on what my husband and I should do in this next chapter of our life.

For context, we had our first son about four months ago, and I'm getting ready to head back to work, and I'm thinking I would like to step back and be a stay-at-home mom.

Cool.

And what's the uh debate here?

So I feel like I am insane for giving up a six-figure salary, and that's what we're struggling with.

What kind of six-figures?

Like the ones, the twos, the fours?

Like, where are we at?

The ones.

Okay.

Okay.

What's your household income and what's your portion of that?

So I make about $125 and then my husband makes about $130.

Awesome.

And we have no consumer debt and we just have our mortgage.

Cool.

And you have an emergency fund?

We do.

Love it.

Have you guys done a sort of mock budget using Every Dollar to see what life would be like living off of just his take-home pay?

We have, but not on the Every Dollar platform.

We've calculated everything pretty much by hand.

And I think we would be essentially breaking even every month without making major cutbacks.

Breaking even as in you could still invest 15% of your of his income and still have enough to throw a little to college, enough to throw a little bit at the mortgage or what?

We would have enough for

to be adding to his retirement and then saving for college I think would be very slim and then saving for my retirement on top of that would be a very small portion as well.

So when we say retirement, you kind of have it broken out by his and hers.

We're thinking of it more as a grand percentage.

So we're looking at 15% of your take-home pay, which in this case would just be his take-home pay.

So $125,000 times 15%.

That's $1,8750 a year going into whatever retirement accounts.

It could be a Roth IRA for each of you.

You max both of those out and then fund a little bit into his retirement plan at work.

That works.

But your retirement number overall will go down because you're not investing a portion of your income anymore.

Right.

Okay.

So I think you guys are in great shape.

If this is what you feel called to do, I would not let a high salary stop you.

There's been lots of people who make even more money and they go, I feel called to this and we're going to make peace with it.

So what I don't want you to do is say, oh my gosh, you're going to get judged either way, Carly.

Here's what happens in the mom world: you get judged for leaving the high-paying salary job, you get judged for staying home.

So which one would you rather be judged for?

I think I would rather be judged for being with my family.

There we go.

And guess what?

You don't care about their opinion, do you?

No, I do not.

So that's the key.

Are you secure with the decision you're making?

My wife struggled with this as well.

She was here at Ramsey for nine years, at the top of her game, executive assistant, crushing it, making great money.

And she decided, I feel called to this, and it's not a apples to apples thing.

This is apples to oranges.

So it's hard to compare 120, 130 grand versus being at home with baby.

It just does.

I wish it could work that way because I love just logical math problems.

This is a values-based decision that is very emotional.

Yeah, I just want to pull the string a little bit more and double-check because the retirement thing threw me off a little bit for you.

So what is your mortgage?

Tell us your mortgage right quick.

Our monthly payment is $2,200 a month.

Okay, and that's including HOAs and everything?

Yep, that's everything.

Okay.

And he's bringing home what?

He brings home about $5,400 a month.

So that's what our feel is awfully low for me.

That's after retirement.

Okay, what is it after taxes?

Do you know what his after-tax pay is?

Yeah, that is after taxes.

We home of his salary about $5,400 a month.

Right, but that sounds like it's after taxes, after retirement, after insurance, after everything.

Do you know what just his after-tax pay is?

I just want to make sure that you do have the money to do the things that George is saying.

At the very least, you've got to be able to do the 15%.

Okay, yeah, I do not know that number off the tough.

So that'd be your homework.

If you were going to sit down with your husband tonight, just say, hey, I want to, let's look at what you're making after taxes, and then let's compare that to what our take-home pay, to what our mortgage is, and kind of see where that lies.

Because what you're looking for is you got to make sure he's not just investing up until the match, that he's really doing 15% that's going to set you guys up for the long term.

And then that can, if it's out of balance, that could just be you doing something part-time on the side here and there just to close that gap.

I'm not suggesting that you have to keep working when you don't want to, but I want to make sure that the money is there to do the things that George is talking about and to do them in the right ratio and in the right percentage.

Okay.

Yeah.

So right now I know, so like we each get a 5% match and then we both contribute 10%

to our 401ks and then I contribute on the side to IRAs for the both of us.

Okay.

Okay.

So it sounds like you're there just double checking those numbers to make sure and doing them as a full percentage and just remembering, yeah, your money's not going to be there anymore.

It's just going to to be based on his salary.

But I like it.

I like the idea of staying home.

Yeah, a lot of green lights here.

And the fact of the matter is you might have to make sacrifices.

Your lifestyle might look different.

We might not eat out as much.

We might need to, you know, lower our self-care and fund money budget.

But I think the trade-off is absolutely worth it.

And if you ask anybody who stayed at home who feels called to it, there's no regrets there.

So I think you're

thinking through the right thing.

It's a values-based emotional decision that then leads to a math problem.

Yeah, I agree.

So those are the two parts we have to figure out.

And if the values emotion part's there, now it's just what sacrifices do we need to make?

What must be true for this to happen and not be super stressful?

Money is so tight that we can't breathe.

Listen, very rarely, very rarely it's like, no, you can't, like, you cannot stay home.

Like, if you stay home, no one's eating.

I mean, we get calls from people making, you know, 50 grand household with a bunch of debt and they decide to have a stay-at-home spouse.

Yeah.

So if they can do it, you can do it too.

But it's going to take splitting your income in half, that's going to require lifestyle change no matter what.

You got used to a certain level of life and now it's different.

That is so true.

That was a very good question.

Thanks for the question.

And to Jay, to your point, what we are digging at there with the housing parameter, if you've listened to the show for a long time, we say no more than 25% of your take-home pay going to the mortgage.

A lot of people think we're the bad guy for saying that, George.

Yeah, but what they don't understand is what we mean by that is you're after tax monthly income.

That's right.

Before other deductions.

So don't include the 15% to retirement.

Don't include the health care premiums you're paying out of your paycheck.

And that really helps to get closer to that parameter.

And again, it's a parameter.

That's right.

And if it's 26%, we're not going to knock on your door and say, time to move out, bud.

That's right.

And on the 25% side of the mortgage, that's including your HOA.

It's included the taxes and fees, right?

So we want to make sure that we're holding those sides together.

And like George said, if you're 30%,

you'll live.

You know, when it's when you start creeping up in the 35, 40 for a long period of time, it's unsustainable at that point.

So these are what we call rules of thumb.

And the goal is just to not be house poor.

The goal is to have extra money to put toward your college funds for the kids.

To put extra toward the mortgage.

Otherwise, just trying to scrape by, that's not going to be a good quality of life.

Which, let's play this out even further.

Okay, so a lot of times people will call in here.

They're engaged and they're about to get married and they're telling us the plan is immediately they get married and immediately they buy a house, right?

Which we tell people all the time, George, we're like, hey, why don't you wait a year?

Like wait a year, rent, you know, get to, get used to your new lifestyle.

Because what a lot of times happens in that first year of marriage, George, if you buy a piece of real estate and then a year later the wife is pregnant, what happens?

They bought a house based on two salaries and now they're having to downside, downsize.

And so you already went from like wedding stress into house stress.

It's a recipe for disaster.

I know, I know.

And so all of the advice that we give you, just remember, it's because we love you.

It's because we want the best for you.

We don't want you to experience stress.

We want you to have financial peace, financial ease.

Stick around.

We'll help you with that.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken.

are from situations that are completely preventable.

Yeah.

And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance.

We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids, pregnant, and husband didn't have life insurance.

And I'm like, I can't even imagine.

Or even if it was opposite, right?

If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford childcare?

How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing?

And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

Like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills

in the middle of next week?

Yeah, in the middle of all that grief.

Like it's just, it is, it's terrible.

And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

And we keep re-upping it because I'm like, I just want it there.

Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens.

And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies.

It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

The cost of stinking pizza.

There really is.

So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

So we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282.

That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com.

Normal is broke.

Common sense is weird.

So we're here to help you transform your life and your money.

From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Ones Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

To get involved in the call scene today, you can call 888-825-5225 to get your name on the line.

I'm here hosting.

My name is Jade Warshaw.

Next to me, George Camill.

George, are you ready to get it on?

I've never been more ready.

All right, let's do it.

We've got Elaine from Indiana on the line.

What's up, Elaine?

Yes.

Hi, thanks for taking my call.

Yeah, how can we help?

Yeah, so I am dealing with a little bit of financial infidel from my husband.

And I'm just kind of wondering, you know, how we can move past that.

The original incident, well, I mean, it's happened several times, but the kind of straw that broke the back was about a year ago.

I learned that he had borrowed about $14,000 from his employer.

So I guess they offered to pay off a debt that was trying to garnish his wages.

And I found out

it was from, he had started a business several years ago.

And so we're working on paying off a lot of the consumer debt that was kind of left over from that.

And so did you know about that debt before he got the loan to pay it off?

I did.

And we did get a you know a notice about the

they had about the lawsuit and it was a court date.

He said he went to the court date, explained to them that the business had been closed and they kind of just said they were washing their hands of it.

And I didn't hear anything else about it.

So he made up that entire lie that they

I think he went.

I don't know that

it was actually, you know, wiped clean.

I don't think he told me the full extent of it.

Well, clearly it wasn't because then they turned around and borrowed it from his employer.

Right.

Well, somebody showed up at his work, a deputy or something, maybe, and with the order to garnish his wages.

Instead of doing the garnishment, his employer paid it off and they took a lump sum out of each one of his checks.

And I didn't find out until about nine months after his checks had been

so essentially he tried to avoid wage garnishment by having his employer do it for him.

Exactly.

Until that was about a year ago, I found out that.

And I actually, you know, we have kids, and I was done at that point.

He's made a lot of stupid financial decisions in the past.

But

before you keep going forward, I want to keep pulling that first one.

So they were garnishing the wages out of his checks, $14,000.

How much?

Because

how did you not see that?

He got his own bank account.

Got it.

He separated all of our finances.

Okay, so finances totally separate.

Okay.

So he made a lot of moves to hide this from you.

Yeah.

Like open another bank, then move the direct deposit to that new bank without your knowledge?

And then have you guys had separate finances in the past?

No, they were together up until about

two or three years ago.

And ever since then, it's been, yeah.

So you said this was not the first thing.

Give us another example of something, because this one's pretty extreme.

Well, when he had his business open, I saw

a bill in the mail for, you know, one of his, I guess, suppliers or somebody.

And it was a lot more than I had anticipated.

And I asked him about it, and he was like, no, it's wrong.

It's wrong.

It's wrong.

It would say he'd take care of it.

And then finally, when i call they're like no like we've been trying to get a hold of you this amount is correct this equipment was never returned your bills you know fifteen thousand dollars as opposed to what you thought would have been fifteen thousand maybe a couple thousand yeah okay so these are big numbers

yes

have you asked him directly why are you lying about all this what's behind it He says that he knows that it stresses me out and so that he's just trying to take care of it himself without me having to know about it.

So take care of it it means more lies, more hiding from things.

Right.

Correct.

And you've made it clear that's not how you're going to rebuild trust in this marriage.

Right.

Yes.

Has he fully owned up to all this?

Like, where is he at today?

Well, that was a year ago.

And, you know, when I said that I was done and I was tired of him lying and hiding things from me.

And I actually moved in with the kids with some family.

And we, you know, he cried and hey, I'll never do it again.

And

so we decided to work on things.

So we're living with family and collectively, you know, we have probably about $90,000 of debt from this previous, you know, company that he had started that didn't work out.

So we said, we'll tackle it together.

Well, a few weeks ago, I found out that somebody else had tried to, you know, sue him or whatever it was, and he got another loan from this company.

This one was only $3,000.

Yep.

And that for the past three months, he's been paying that off, and it's paid off now.

And we were able to pay off the $14,000 one, you know, once I found out about it.

And I said, let's put everything towards it.

And so we did that.

So I thought everything was good after that.

And then.

But you guys,

you never really sat down and counseled your way through this.

It was kind of just like, let's try it again.

Let's try it again.

Let's try it again.

And I'm not really defensive.

You know,

here's the thing.

You're telling us this.

I 100% believe what you're saying.

You said

he, you know, you left him and he cried and all this stuff.

I don't know what the word is for that, but there's a word for the fact that he's making a mistake, but he's putting it on you by saying,

I don't want you to be stressed.

I don't want you to be the one that's upset.

This is too much for you.

Like, there's a word for that.

I don't know what it is, but I know I don't like it.

And there's just part of this word.

Yeah, you've outlined many instances, and yet he continues to do the same kind of crazy erratic behavior with his debt and with his money.

Yeah, I would.

I would sit down with a counselor.

And in the meantime, yeah, I would keep the money separate.

And I wouldn't do much more on this until you can sit down with somebody and say, here's what's going on.

I don't know why my husband is continuing to do this behavior.

Maybe I, maybe I do have a hand in it.

I'm willing to own if I do, right?

And you guys both sit down.

And until you've given this a fair shake with the help of a professional, you know, that's what I really want for both of you because something is, and I'm not apologizing or giving merit to what he's doing, but something's causing him to do this, whether it's some sort of scarcity mind, the way he grew up, some piece of him is feeling like he's got to control this and hide it from you.

I don't know why.

And I'm not saying that it's right, but I hope you guys can get to the bottom of it.

And if it were me in the meantime, yeah, I would set some really clear boundaries, George.

I'd be like, listen, you have disrespected me and our family and our money, and you've put us in an unsafe position.

And because of that,

I can't be linked with money because I got to keep our family safe.

So my question for you, Elaine, is, do you earn any money?

I do.

And, you know, combined, we do make a decent, I mean, we bring in about $135,000

a year.

About 45 of that is from myself.

Okay, so you're bringing in 45.

So what I would say is this, I'd say, what would make me feel safe while we're in counseling is for us to put our money into this account.

And I will give you full transparency into what I'm doing with the money.

But you, you're taking our money and you're putting it on debt and you're making payments and you're putting us in an unsafe space.

Will you go to counseling with me?

And if he says no, he won't and no, he won't combine the money, then now that's your, that's your chance for you to take that to counseling and figure out what you need to do next because you can't control him.

Yeah, you need consistent honesty from him over time and proof through actions.

Those are the two things that will rebuild trust.

And if he's unwilling to do that, that is him opting out of this relationship.

So you need, you guys need to go through counseling and start to set those guardrails and boundaries and work towards healing.

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So it's something you can do that's totally easy totally free and totally makes a big difference all right let's go to bill in illinois what's up bill

hi how are you guys doing first of all i want to say that it really is a pleasure for me with you allowing me to speak with you today it is an honor and i have a question um regarding uh what my wife would like to do.

And basically, I want to find out what is the best way to convince my wife that keeping cash out of circulation, meaning out of bank accounts, you know, that it isn't a good idea.

And there is a backstory to that, if, you know, you'd like to hear that.

Sure.

How old are you, two?

I am 62, and she is 64, and we've been married for six years.

Okay.

And I assume

part of the backstory is there's some trauma from the past where she is, her security gland is just popping off going, we cannot keep this money out there was there theft in her life was there so was she poor at one point what happened

um well um you're a little bit right uh it deals with her dad my father-in-law and he was placed in a nursing home in 2021 and passed away in 2024 he had no savings to speak of um and he had the social security income which of course was taken by the nursing home.

And he possessed several low-value properties to include his home, which sold for $40,000 in 2023.

So in addition to Medicaid, the state of Illinois conducted an audit of his assets that my wife had to painstakingly research to include collecting and researching all his bank statements.

And she had to account for every penny he had spent for the last three years.

And that consisted of going to the bank and explaining the situation to them and

pulling all those bank statements.

And then she had to provide a reason why assets, which he was a

mechanic.

He had some old cars, and they were sold.

And she had to backtrack to find out when they were sold.

to whom and for how much.

So she's just sick of dealing with banks and

involved.

Right.

And it was very painstaking and loss of sleep, tears.

And of course, you know, when a spouse feels stress,

the other spouse is going to feel that too.

And there wasn't much I could do as far as, you know, consoling besides helping the best that I could.

And then after doing our internal audit, making sure that we have all the documents, they provided a very long checklist that we had to follow.

And we did.

and that's to say that my wife did she's very meticulous but they kept rejecting them stating they were incomplete all the documents that were provided they'd come up with certain things no no so here

let me cut you short for a minute because what this what you're describing is the result of poor estate planning it's oh there's no doubt and government bureaucracy on top of that exactly so you get both and there and what you're attempting to do is avoid that completely because what you can do is manage your money properly so that whoever precedes you and outlives you doesn't have to go through the bureaucracy that she had to go through, right?

So

if we can help her to understand that, I think we can win this battle.

How much money is she wanting to keep on hand in cash at the house?

Right now, we got 25 and probably around 75.

25 and 75 or 75 total?

75 total.

$75,000 just sitting in a safe?

Right.

And she says that would make her comfortable.

And of course, being her husband, I want to make her comfortable.

And you guys are not broke.

If you have 75 grand sitting around, well, is that the only money to your name?

No, no, no, no, no, no.

No.

Okay.

There's retirement accounts.

You have a house, all that.

Absolutely.

And

the only debt we have.

the only debt we have is the house, which is

it'll be less than $102,000 after our payments that we make this month.

What's it worth?

The house is worth $304,000 according to Zillow.

And what do you have in retirement accounts that are invested?

We have a total of $652,349.

Okay, great.

And so she's just saying, hey, this $75,000, that's your emergency fund, more than three to six months of expenses is probably.

She's like, I don't want to keep that in HYSA.

I just feel better having some cash money in a safe in the house.

Is that basically what you're saying?

That is correct.

So if I were to go into a home, she didn't want to be in the same type of situation to where

I'm retired military, so I feel that I would, based on things that I've been exposed to throughout my military career, that I would be the first one to go in.

And I just want want her to not have to worry about the same things that she had to go through with her dad and his estate.

We are more organized.

We have, I mean, we're.

You are.

I can already tell that you are.

And here's the thing.

This $75,000 is neither here nor there in the conversation that you're having.

The whole idea of estate planning and being well prepared, that really has nothing to do with the $75,000.

This is a small detail of a bigger estate that it sounds like you have planned.

The biggest thing to make sure that she feels good is you both, yeah, you both need a will.

You both need to probably sit down and find out is there enough wealth or is there enough

transferring going on that maybe you need a trust, right?

So that's the bigger conversation.

And you guys can sit down and have that.

You can take the wills quiz that we have that will decide if you can make a will on the spot or if you need to go a little bit deeper and do a trust or something like that.

So that's your homework.

And when you you get off the phone, Kelly will pick up and make sure you're set up with that Wills quiz.

But this $75,000, listen, I'd probably split the difference with her, honestly.

I would say, hey, sure, we'll put half in a high-yield savings.

And if we get a safe for the house, we can put half there.

I really don't care much on it.

Yeah, you're going to lose out on a little bit of, you know, compound growth from the interest, but I particularly, with what she's been through, I wouldn't die on this hill.

I would maybe, like I said, try to get half of it in the bank.

But the bigger conversation, I mean, do you agree, George?

The bigger conversation is not this 75,000.

Yeah, I mean, it's a small part of your world collectively.

You guys are just about millionaires.

And so this is not a make or break.

But I do think we need to deal with the scarcity mindset behind it and helping her understand, hey, what happened in the past is not going to happen in the future because we're setting our life up in a very different way than your father did.

And there's more risk in her having it in a safe at home than there is having it in a bank account.

There is a higher percentage percentage chance that a natural disaster, theft, loss, inflation eating away on the buying power versus having it grow in a high-yield savings account, there's more risk there than there is of the government's going to come take this money one day to pay for your home, to pay to have you in a living home.

I don't know if other states have this, but in Illinois, there's a spousal impoverishment law.

So

hypothetically, if we had separate savings accounts and I went into a nursing home and and then where we couldn't or my wife couldn't pay anymore for the nursing home, they would start going after my assets and I would feel that will protect.

But you're going to have a net worth.

Your net worth is going to be so much so that you guys are going to be able to just live off of the interest and that Nesteg is going to be there to provide for care.

Because to your point, the average person is only in a nursing home under three years.

So it's not going to be 10 years of draining this account down.

And I would personally work with an estate planning attorney to walk her through all this, to have a professional go, hey, here's how to protect the stuff you're talking about.

Here's what will and won't happen in the future based on how we set this up.

That will give her some critical confidence she needs.

Yeah.

I'm so sorry you're going through this, man.

That's tough.

Back to the phone lines.

We go.

We got Taylor.

She's in Tampa, Florida, my home state.

What's up, Taylor?

Hey, thanks so much for taking my call.

We'll be recorded.

Are you recording me?

Thanks so much for.

What's that about, Taylor?

Are you still here?

You know what?

We're going to record this too for quality assurance.

Hello?

Yeah, we're here.

We're just making funny.

Sorry.

Yeah, I wanted to record it for my fiancé because my question is that we recently got engaged in April and now we are in the wedding planning process.

And I wanted to know what you guys recommend for a budget based on our current finance state.

And then also when we're in a non-traditional situation where most of the wedding is going to be coming out of our own pockets and my family won't be paying for it, how can we split up that given that we do make different income?

Yeah.

Okay.

Good questions.

So

is this so that you can prove to him that you're right?

So you're recording it just to...

Is this really a settled debate?

No, just

information gathering.

And to be fully transparent, I don't know if I've even fully sold him on having a wedding.

What?

He hasn't proposed yet?

He also brought up elopement.

Well, he's proposed.

We're getting married, but the actual wedding versus the wedding ceremony and the whole party for all of our friends and family versus just the two of us going on a vacation together and probably cutting that cost in a quarter, if not half.

What's his argument for eloping?

It'll be cheaper.

That's it.

And is it because you guys are in dire financial straits?

Dire straits.

No, so to give you a little background,

he W-2'd about $180 last year.

I W-2'd about $120.

I also do some babysitting on the side to try and make up for some extra income.

He also started a new company last year, and he anticipates to bring in about an additional $100,000 just this year alone.

We do have a house together, so we broke the naughty rule.

That was before we started listening to your show.

And we bought it in 2021.

It was $396,000.

Our current principal is about $320,000.

Our regular monthly payment is about $2,000, $2,400, but we always pay more.

We usually pay between $3,000 and $3,500 per month.

Do you guys split that mortgage even?

Yes, we do.

So he's just kind of a little bit, he's just being a little stingy with the wedding purse strings, is what it sounds like, right?

You got money.

How much are you looking to spend?

So that was kind of my question to you guys as well as what's an appropriate amount based on our current finances.

Based on what what I've been researching, I'm thinking between like $50,000 and $70,000.

And when would that be?

Do you guys have a date in mind?

Year.

Okay.

2026, probably towards the end, like fall.

So let's say one year from now, we need $50,000 saved.

You guys could do that real easily.

If you split it up $25,000 each, let's say, could you save up 25?

in 12 months, making $120,000.

Could he save up $25,000, making at least $180,000?

The answer is yes.

You guys have no debt other than the mortgage?

We also have a boat.

We owe about 30,000 left on that.

Okay.

Gosh.

Okay.

You can knock that out and save up for this wedding, no problem, within a year.

So as far as who's right and who's wrong, I don't think it's a, you know, if he wants to elope, that's on him.

But you,

your dreams and vision is involved now if you're getting married.

And so you want to throw a party.

Let's have a compromise because you are throwing a party for everyone else.

That's what you're doing.

That's really the bulk of the cost of a wedding.

And so understand that going in.

Decide on a number.

You're clearly the like the nerd in this situation.

You know your numbers really well.

So you run the wedding budget and say, hey, here's what we need to save up each month to make this happen.

Are you committed?

The only part that I might push a little bit in a different direction, not a different direction, but a little different is the actual split, like how you split it.

I might do it by looking at the budgets because the truth is he makes a decent amount more than you, especially if he's making that additional $100,000 this year.

So he probably has more margin to put towards it than possibly you do.

But I would do that process together.

I would sit down.

I mean, I'm saying this from, it sounds like you guys have already combined everything, but I'm trying to be correct here.

So I'd sit down and look at your budget and say, here's the margin I have.

Him look at his paycheck and budget and say, here's the margin I have.

And then you guys together decide, well, it makes sense that he would put this much and you would put that much based on your own margins.

Does that make sense?

Yes, exactly.

And I did also want to mention my parents are gifting us $15,000 to do with it as we please, whether that's elopement, whether that wants to go towards our house debt, our boat debt, a wedding.

They kind of are just saying, congratulations on taking this step.

Do with it as you wish.

Nice.

So then we would just have to split.

the difference.

And also, I have $130,000 in my bank, and he has about $40,000 in savings.

So we kind of are already already there.

I mean, obviously, those are emergency funds, but that's where it's just, you know, frustrating getting over the curve of

why we can't afford this wedding when I feel like we are both in a very

change his language and just get to the root of what's actually behind it.

And it might just be, I really don't want to spend a bunch of money to throw other people a party.

And that's fine, but he still has to put on a brave face, smile, have a good time.

He wants the money to go towards his new business.

Yes.

Yeah.

A business of

50 grand.

Anything, exactly.

Well, he's gonna have to get used to this because marriage is a team.

And so, the part I don't like about the, well,

I make this and he makes this.

We should, well, that's gonna become tit-for-tat scorekeeping for the rest of your marriage.

It's gonna become, well, you made more this year, so really you should apply more toward this goal, and I'm gonna apply this much.

That's an exhausting way to live.

And I hope that when you're married, and it happens sooner rather than later, which you could get married next month with the money you guys have.

Nobody needs a 130 grand emergency fund.

You're doing great.

I'm happy for you.

But really, you could have this wedding four months from now.

Yeah,

and then move on with your lives, be completely debt-free, throw the rest toward the mortgage, and start to build a life together instead of one that's separate where, well, he made this and I made this, so this is how we're going to do things this year.

Yeah,

I 100% am with George.

What is not going to be the case is whoever makes more gets to make the decisions.

It cannot be that and it can't start down that path.

So the good news is you guys have some time to keep having this conversation.

Try to have it in a lighthearted way, but take detailed notes because how he reacts to this is going to tell you a lot about who he's going to be.

Man, wedding planning will reveal who you really are.

It sure will.

It's stressful.

It's a lot, but it can be a fun season if you do it right and you guys are aligned from the get-go instead of bickering about it the entire way there.

That's not going to be fun.

Does it make it easier when your wedding's free?

Well, here's the thing, Jade.

We had a free wedding, but the parameters around it, we had 50 people.

So, if you guys don't know listening to the show, my wife found a local wedding contest and we won.

That's sucks.

Back in the day, but they only let 50 people, that includes bride, groom, bridal party, and guests, has to add up to 50.

That's the total amount to attend.

Okay, which means we had to exclude most of our friends and family.

Yeah, you know a lot of people.

So, we had to throw another party later that day, which ended up costing about half of a normal.

We had two weddings in one day.

Exactly.

We had a wedding, reception, and then another reception.

I don't think I realized that.

I was exhausted.

But it was a great time.

Highly blessed and favored.

Oh my God.

Man, weddings are just, that will really test your, your, you and your future spouse.

It will.

I feel like Sam and I's wedding was pretty smooth for the most part.

The biggest thing was I remember getting in kind of a debacle with another family member who was getting married at the same, around the same time.

So around like dates, like who is going to get married on old days here's my take if mom and dad or mother-in-law and father-in-law want to invite extra people who you don't even know they cover the bill for those oh man that needs to be written

moses needs to chisel that in stone because that is man i know you want your old friend from college there but i'm not paying 120 bucks a plate for them to maybe show man do you know what i read i read uh a good rule of thumb is when you're making the guest list so if you're going down you're like oh bob from college so should i invite him you know or like, Eddie, we used to be roommates, right?

You're like going down the list.

You're supposed to think about 10 years from that point.

Like 10 years from now, will me and Eddie, will me and Bob still be, will we still have the relationship we have today?

Will it be better, worse?

And kind of like foresee that.

And if you can't see them in your life 10 years from now, don't invite them.

Which listen, that leaves out a lot of co-workers.

Yeah, I'm not getting invited.

I know that.

I'm getting cut from the list.

I'm just saying.

And I think about that.

Sometimes if people are getting married around me and I wasn't invited i really stop and think about it i'm like listen 10 years from now you're a ghost like we don't know each other be very judicious with your wedding planning friends

Well, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you just can't get ahead, number one, I've been where you are.

And I'm going to tell you, the antidote is you need to join our free every dollar trainings, guys.

There are new trainings every single week this month, and they're all hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities.

I actually did one today, George, on my lunch break.

Wonderful.

Yep.

And we're going to show you how to stick to the budget and even find up to $3,015 of margin using every dollar.

That's impressive.

It's a lot.

30 days, 3 grand on the line.

Come on.

What do you got to lose?

Nothing.

Your debt.

Are you going to get it?

You need to stress.

That's what I'm talking about.

Plus, you can ask any questions that you might have during a live QA that takes place at the end.

So if you're interested in that, you can sign up for free at ramseysolutions.com/slash webinar.

Be there or be square.

All right.

Scott is in Orlando, Florida.

Hey, Scott, how can we help?

Hey, guys, how's it going?

Doing good.

Good.

You know, there is some intro music whenever I signed in.

I got a feeling that's the last time I'm going to be dancing.

Um,

but

I've just started listening uh to this show, and um,

and I've realized I need to make some changes.

Um, and so I was just calling for some advice.

Well, the good news is this is as bad as it's going to get.

It's up, it's it's going to be easier from here on out.

How much debt do you have?

I've got about $300,000 in debt.

Okay, break it down for us.

Um, it is most of it's student loans.

I got about $220,000 in student loans.

And then the rest of it is IRS debt.

I have about $80,000 in taxes on rest of Tayback.

Wow.

Were you self-employed?

How'd you rack up 80 grand to the government?

Yeah, so I ended up in both of these situations.

After college, I turned pro at golf and I traveled around playing golf.

And so

this year,

I got audited for, I've been using a Schedule C.

I got audited for all my tax years from, I don't know, 2015, 16, something like that.

And the auditor felt as if it didn't cost as much as it as it does for me to play.

So I had some losses on some of those years.

And so he disallowed all of my Schedule C's and then said, I owe this money back.

So

that's kind of how I ended up in that part of the situation.

And then the same thing with the student loans is like while I was traveling in the world and traveling the country playing,

obviously I wasn't paying back my student loans and that stuff was just racking up.

What was your degree in?

I got a bachelor's in business management.

I have an MBA.

And then I'm about, well, I was about halfway through a PhD.

Wow.

And

I decided at a point that it was time for me to stop that.

Once I started, you know, listening to you guys, I realized all I'm doing is continuing to borrow money and put myself in a deeper hole than I don't believe based on what I do for a living.

Are you still golfing professionally?

I am still doing it, but I'm doing it in a much different way to where I'm just doing stuff locally.

And if I can get to the point to where I'm, you know, playing at a high level to where I can make some good money doing it, then I will.

What kind of money do you make?

From work?

Just, yeah, golfing, work, all of it.

Yeah.

In general, I make about $120,000 a year.

Good.

Are you using your degree right now, doing something full-time and then golfing on the side?

Yes.

I'm working full-time, just like as a district manager in retail.

And it allows me to have a little bit of flexibility to be able to practice and stuff like that during the days.

And I also have

a girlfriend I've been with for a very long time.

And so

she makes decent money as well.

So that's how I'm able to even be able to still play some and participate some because you know I got to put up all that money myself for these events and stuff like that.

Are you doing any coaching lessons right now?

I do just a little bit.

I do this program where I teach veterans or people that have been wounded in the military.

And

the PGA gives us a little bit of money for doing those lessons.

It's not a lot.

I probably make like about $4,000.

Okay.

But on top of that, could you start consistently coaching and doing private lessons?

Because you can make good money doing that locally without having to

travel.

That would be a great idea.

And it's something that I think I need to figure out how I can just get started doing it.

I mean, I'm certified to teach, and I know you know, you got an MBA, so you know how to start a business.

That is true, um,

definitely true.

And I lost, just so you guys will know, I lost.

I had uh, when I was playing, I was playing pretty well, and my agent stole all of my money.

And he,

no, it's fine, it was my fault.

I didn't need an agent, but I didn't know when you're 21, sometimes you just don't know stuff and flip off.

Oh, that's tough.

He stole about a quarter of a million dollars from me.

And so that was everything I had.

And then I just started borrowing to try and, you know, keep going.

And that's how I ended up here.

So you're back here.

You're back here.

You have checked.

that the 80,000 that you owe to the IRS is legit.

You actually do owe that money.

Good news is you have a good income and a lot of ways that you can supplement that on top, which George outlined.

So from there,

kind of how can we help?

Give us a closer look at what your real problem is.

Is it just knowing what debt to pay first?

Is it having the motivation to put the money onto the debt and not spend it elsewhere?

Kind of, where's your pain point?

I mean, I'd say that's the biggest thing for me.

I find myself spending money on stuff that I don't feel like I should or even deserve to spend money on.

And I just got to make some better decisions.

So

I was looking for, I just needed to talk to somebody, to be honest.

I'm just getting going on this, and I really wanted to talk to somebody that could

at least maybe have been through somewhat of it.

Hey, Jade Warshaw's been there, man.

Listen, was it $468,000?

When he said his student loans, $220,000, yeah, we had $280,000 student loans, and our total amount was $460,000, not including our mortgage.

So I kind of feel, I kind of feel where you're at.

And hey, here's the good news for you, Scott.

You're making far more money than Sam and I were when we got started.

So I really, I think for you, this is actually going to go a lot faster than you think it will.

But what I hear, George, is we need a really strong why.

Like, why are you doing this?

Because that's going to be the thing that you connect to every time you want to spend money on something else, every time times gets, every time times get hard, every time your girlfriend says, let's take a trip to the Bahamas, right?

You need something to tie back to and go, why do I really, why is it important for me to get this done?

What's it going to mean for my future?

What's it going to mean for the life that I see myself living?

And I think that it could be a good idea for you to sit down and spend some time kind of just plotting that out.

Like, where do you see yourself in 10 years?

What does that look like?

And be so detailed.

Does it look like you

having your own golf business where you're teaching lessons?

And I don't know, I'm just making something up.

Does it look like you,

I don't know what it looks like.

Only you can know that.

Do you run a golf shop full-time?

I don't know.

But the math here is how much can I make and how little can I spend to create enough margin to tackle this without it taking a decade.

And so the math there is pretty simple.

If you can throw four grand a month at the debt, you're done a little over six years.

If you can throw five grand at the debt, we're done in five years.

And so you can start to kind of get a picture of where you're going to be four or five years from now based on how much you're currently throwing at the debt.

And if you don't like the number you see, increase the income, decrease the expenses.

And so like Jay said, you need to have your I've had it moment, this I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired versus, I guess it's time to pay off this this debt.

Might as well get

a start on this.

I want to feel some urgency here to where you go, I'm going to be working every single weekend.

My girlfriend's not going to see me.

And maybe marriage is in the future, and you guys combine incomes, and that speeds up this whole process.

Yeah.

And I listen,

I do want to take you to task just a little bit on the girlfriend thing because I don't know, and you can stop me if I'm wrong, because I just want to be your friend here.

It's what I heard, it sounds like you and your girlfriend, are you guys living together?

We are living together.

And so it kind of sounds like you're combining your monies a little bit, and that's making it feel like you have more than you really have.

And I have a feeling that if you were on your own, in your own space, with only access to your own money, I think you would feel the weight of this a little bit more or a lot more, and it would cause you to get that fire lit under your butt like you need.

So there might be part of this that,

do you see what I'm saying?

Put yourself in a a position to win and to feel the things that you need to feel.

Because you know, you're an athlete, like you're a competitor.

You know what it takes for you to compete at your highest level.

And sometimes it's that, you know, what I'm talking about, George, you just need that push.

That's what I'm saying.

I wouldn't get married as like a debt payoff hack, but I would get married as an intentional life hack.

There you go.

Interesting.

Listen, we're going to finish it off with a hot take.

Get married and pay that debt.

Hey guys, George Camel here.

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All right, welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

We're here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio taking calls about your life and money.

Let's get straight to the phone lines.

We've got Nicole who's in Washington.

Nicole, how can we help today?

Hi,

yeah, so my significant another and I have been together for about five years,

not married, and I've been contributing towards a mortgage for about four years now.

And in addition to that, I have probably also contributed about $12,000 towards house remodel and property updates.

And

we had kind of, we started the conversation that we need to figure out how to protect me financially since I'm putting money into the home and hadn't really got very far.

And then to add to the complication,

my

significant other's father built a shop on our property.

And so now we have a third party who has basically invested in the property.

And we're really stuck as to kind of like where to go from here.

Yes.

Okay.

Well, here's the simplest answer.

Get married.

Well, I would love for that to be the simplest answer.

What's stopping it?

Well, a couple of reasons.

So

he is divorced.

My second father's divorce was finalized in 2022.

Okay.

And so he's a little like marriage shy.

His ex cheated on him, and then he like had to pay out a lot of money financially for the divorce.

Did he go to counseling?

He did not.

He's not really a big fan of counseling.

Does he want to get better?

He's a fan of a renter with benefits.

So

I think he can't have it both ways here.

You're clearly resentful that you're paying toward this thing that you don't own, which adds a lot of risk to your life.

Because if you guys broke up tomorrow, you get nothing.

And it's been five years.

It's not like it's been five months.

I'm actually not resentful.

I was fully aware that this might be the case going into the relationship.

It was a we're we're both in our 40s.

It was a actually a very thorough discussion that it might take him a while to get to the marriage,

you know, spot again.

But then there's also a cutoff, though, because five years is a long time.

Like, let me tell you, I admire your, you have had patience here, and I admire your ability to try to see it and walk in his shoes and understand it from his perspective.

I think that's great.

But what I do think is missing is there's no timeframe.

And there's no skin in the game on his part to actually heal and move forward and commit to this relationship other than you helping pay his bills and renovate his house.

And I think you deserve a little more than that.

Oh, he, he, no, he is totally on board that I need to be protected here.

Like, he is not questioning that at all.

So how can we do that lawfully

and not just a spit shake agreement?

Right.

Well, so yeah, so there's that.

There's what's my financial contribution, but now there's also his father's financial contribution toward the property.

And I had started doing my research, but like all these terms kept coming up and I started to get really overwhelmed by everything.

And also in my search is when I started stumbling across all the Ramsey stuff.

And so I was like, maybe I just need to call.

Yeah, you're right.

The father-in-law adding a shop to the property definitely threw a wrench in things.

Okay, let's look at this as it is.

So the house is completely in your boyfriend's name.

Yes.

Correct.

Yes.

Okay.

And you guys, I guess it sounds like you're splitting the payment every month?

Yeah.

So we basically, everything's cut down the middle as far as

standard expenses go, mortgage utilities, all that.

Okay.

And then you've also put $5,000 into a remodel?

No, about $12,000.

$12,000.

So we've, yeah.

Here's the thing.

Like, I'm about to say something, but it's going to sound ridiculous even coming out of my mouth.

I mean, if you wanted to create some kind of contract, you could get with a lawyer and say, here's the amount that I've put in

thus far.

And then you come up with a

cutoff date of once I get to 50,000, here's what must happen.

And I also get my 12,000 back and you guys sign it and agree.

But what kind of relationship is that?

Yeah, I know

that's...

kind of where it gets complicated is because I don't want it to be just a strict like then your other option is then your other option is you move out and you get your own place and say I live here which is a great idea, by the way.

I live here, you live there.

And when you're ready to commit, we'll get married and we'll move in together.

And mama, there's where your leverage lies right there.

That's where it is.

Yeah, I guess.

And it's when I say leverage, I'm not saying it in a negative way.

I'm saying it in, it's best for both parties.

He's not ready to commit.

And he said that.

And that is fine.

Like, I'm not mad at him.

I get it.

That makes total sense.

But hear him when he says he's not ready to commit.

And the best way to honor that is go, okay, I'm not going to put you in a situation where you're feeling forced to commit or worse, where I'm not getting

honored in this relationship.

So just live in your own space and date like normal dating people do.

Well, I mean, we, like I said, we, we've talked about this.

Like, he is committed to me.

Like, he is not looking to date anyone else.

I understand that, but he can be committed to you.

And if you're talking about what you said, which is how can we keep me safe?

And you guys both say, hey, yeah, we want to keep her safe.

Nicole matters here.

The best way to do that is one of two things.

You either marry the person and you're protected under law, or you live in your own space with your own money and you go on dates and you hang out at each other's houses and you go to the movies and you date and he's committed to you in a dating relationship.

Plenty of people date and they're committed and they don't live together.

And by doing that, that's how they protect themselves.

We're not questioning his love for you.

We're just saying you're very committed financially to him right now, and he's uncommitted relationally by law.

And that's what's putting you at risk right now.

So the question on the screen, how do my boyfriend and I protect our investments?

You don't have any investments right now.

All you're doing is paying someone else's mortgage and living with them.

And that's fine.

Like, I'm not here to, you know, bash you in the head going, oh, we're not dinosaurs going, you got to move out today because of moral reasons.

No, it's not moral reasons.

You do what you want to do.

But you're asking us how to protect yourself.

It's either move out or get married or do this very complicated contract agreement that's going to just make this feel like a business partnership instead of love.

But those are the only three things we could tell you to do.

And I would recommend marriage if he can learn to heal and move forward and rebuild trust, which I feel like five years of you being who you are should have proven that by now.

I think so, but at the same point, I wouldn't recommend marriage if we're five years in and he's still not ready to paint or get off the ladder.

I would say, yeah, just

wait and see.

Backtrack.

Backtrack it.

And I even hate to to say backtrack because it's not even, Nicole, I don't want you to think we're saying go backwards.

And I love what George said.

It's not even from a moral perspective.

It truly is, how do we protect you?

The way we protect your assets is to make sure your assets are spent on building your wealth.

Because today,

the truth is you're a single woman financially.

You're not married.

So why would you pair your finances?

He could high-step it out of there tomorrow and you would be jacked.

Because today, let's be honest, today you are jacked for the 12 000 and whatever you've put towards rent if you just even if you decided to move on right so there's a part of this where it's like hey let's cut our losses like let's cut this combination of money today and it's not out of malice or ill will or the fact that we're not going to be together and you just have your separate place i don't know i

i would do that instantly I hope he handles this conversation well.

I do hope that he is able to heal and move forward with the relationship.

And I I wouldn't put it as an ultimatum.

Like, I wouldn't do it like that because I don't think it is that.

I think it's just.

But Nicole can only control what she can control.

Yeah.

And therefore, that might mean moving out if he's just not ready.

Yeah.

Man, that's a tough situation, Nicole.

It is tough.

Sorry going through that.

Yeah, me too.

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Okay, something that George and I were talking about during the break.

All right, James, permission to proceed.

Trust me, it's good.

I don't want to say granted.

Okay, so during the break, Sam, during the break, George and I were talking about fund money, right?

So fun money is an item that when you're married, it's on the budget when you're out of debt and, you know, through the baby steps, through baby step three for sure.

And it's, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's instead of the allowance, you know, people call in, they're like, I give my girlfriend or I gave my wife an allowance.

And we're like, no, allowance, fun money, right?

Both spouses should have it as a line item on the budget.

So Sam Warshaw, my husband, comes to me the other day.

He says, you know what?

I'm going to start saving my fun money so that I can have like a big chunk of it and do what I really want to do.

And I'm like, saving your fun money?

So this brings up a point, George.

Can it be ethical?

Is it ethical?

Does it roll over?

That's the first question.

Can you roll over unused fun money?

Does unused fun money roll over?

is number one.

PTO.

Yeah, like PTO.

Is it unused?

Number two, saving it up.

Is there a moment that it's like...

Is it too much?

Is it too much?

And where do you keep it when you save it?

Is like just in the sock drawer?

It depends how you do your budget.

Yeah, the people need to weigh into this.

Okay, what do you think?

Is there a moment where it's like, hey, I said he legally found a loophole in the budgeting system.

It's

that if you had a hundred bucks a month and instead you want to not use any of it and spend $1,200 at the end of the year, why not?

Be my guess.

But the question is, is he really not spending anything those months?

Or is he somehow still finagling it in?

No, the truth, Sam,

most months, Sam does not spend his fun money at all.

So I spend it.

Because I'm like, it's laying there.

Maybe I'll spend it.

I think we need a new rule.

Does it get to be rolled over?

Or

must it be used each month in order to create fun?

I think it can be rolled over.

I think it should be rolled over.

Okay.

And then maybe when you hit a certain

Sam, you just got freed, my man.

You're out of jail.

You can do what you want now.

Jay just said it.

Get out of jail free.

Listen, am I setting all the other people free out there as well?

Here's my hot take.

If it was, I would agree on a certain amount.

And if it's a bigger goal, let's just set up a separate savings goal for that as a family

so that it doesn't feel out of line.

Right.

Because I could see him saving up for a long time and like buying like a golf cart or something.

Okay.

It could be 10 grand, 15 grand.

To which I would say, ah, don't spend your fun money on that.

Like let's us save up to a new line item.

A thousand bucks a month.

in 12 months.

We'll have 12 grand for that golf cart.

12 grand for a golf cart?

Is that how much they are?

You just told me that.

Now, here's the thing.

Golf carts I found, Jade.

You can go on Facebook Marketplace and find one for two grand.

Listen, let's get more on that one.

But I know Sam Warshaw, he's pretty bougie.

He lives.

He wants it to be, you know, murdered out.

Speakers.

Murdered out.

Yeah.

Just

blacked out.

Like all Matt Black.

I think I can see him cruising around the neighborhood

in his golf cart.

It's heads turning, speakers bumping.

Yeah, you could see that.

Listen, it's something to talk about amongst yourselves with your married couples.

You know, when you're at a call around that, like earlier this year, I'll try to dig it up and see what the discussion is.

What did we say?

Yeah, this is interesting.

I like it.

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That's right.

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So yeah, basically what that's saying is we don't just put you out there in the world to teach this class.

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So if you feel a little bit nervous about it, you can follow the script.

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All righty then, let's go to Teresa in Iowa.

What's up, Teresa?

Hey, how are you guys doing today?

We're great.

How can we help you?

Great.

Well, I owe over $40,000 in credit card debt,

and I am contemplating taking a $50,000 withdrawal from my TSP account to pay those off because the interest rates are so high on them and just give myself some relief and get a fresh start.

And I want to know what your opinion on that is.

How much is the credit card debt?

It's over $40,000.

And it's several, it's several cards?

It is.

Okay, so if you were to line them up, smallest to largest, how many is it?

Eight.

Eight.

Okay, and

are they in collections?

No.

Okay.

And what's your income?

About $104 a year.

$104?

Yes.

Are you single?

I also

am single.

Okay.

You also, what?

I also receive a service connection from the military of about $2,300 a month.

Okay, great.

So what's stopping you from just attacking the debt regardless of the interest?

Because the truth is, if you attack this with intensity, the interest isn't going to be all that much.

If you let this ride for 10 years, yeah, that interest would rack up.

I have been doing that.

I've paid off five cards already.

Good.

But it just seems like it's just like whack-a-mole.

Are you doing the debt snowball method, just hitting the smallest balance, making minimum payments on the rest and attacking that little one?

That's what I started doing, and that's how I got the five of them paid off.

But the largest one that I have is over $13,000.

It was for getting something done in my house that was necessary.

How much can you throw at these credit cards every month?

I've been throwing about $2,000 a month.

Okay.

So I'm confused because you have $2,300 coming in.

That could go to the credit cards alone.

So you're spending all $104 on other things after tax?

Well, yeah, on and by the time that everything is said and done, I have enough left for gas and groceries and a little bit after that.

That's the part that worries me.

Because you have a great income.

In Iowa, too.

So where are the bulk of your expenses going?

Right now, the credit cards.

Is that $40,000 your only debt, or is there other debt we should know about?

Just, well, my house.

Okay, what's that?

Tell us what your mortgage payment is every month.

It's about $1,230 a month.

Okay, so that's not the problem.

Are you bringing home like $6,000 a month plus the $2,300 from the military?

No, I'm contributing to my TSP.

I just received

12%,

and I also had taken out some loans from TSP, so I'm paying those back as well.

So you do have more debt?

I do have more debt.

Okay.

How much is that?

What are the TSP loans?

There's one for $15,000 and one for $16,000.

So let's play this out.

You've tried this scheme before, and it hasn't panned out.

And so what I don't want you to do is go into more debt to try to pay off other debt because we've realized that's not going to work.

And the other reasons are, number one, it doesn't change the behavior that got us here.

And so I don't want to see you back in the same situation a year from now trying to, you know, again, play whack-a-mole, taking out one debt to pay off the other debt.

Number two, it also puts you at risk because you owe your employer back this money to this retirement plan and you're paying interest on that.

And number three, you're unplugging all that growth.

So it may feel like, well, it's 40 grand, I'll pay it back.

What you really are leaving on the table is hundreds of thousands of dollars if you would just let that money grow.

So, for those reasons, I would use that amazing income and figure out in a budget where it is going every month.

Because you're making great money, I would pause all retirement investing until you get these credit cards knocked out and you have savings in the bank.

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Today's question comes from Sam in Texas.

He says, I'm 50 years old with a net worth of nearly $7 million.

We have no debt, and I'm retired.

I want to buy a $100,000 Dodge Viper.

My understanding wife is not against the idea, but I'm still hesitant.

I've wanted a Viper since I was in high school, and it passes the, quote, burn the money test.

Should I pull the trigger and buy the car?

Dude.

Goodness.

This is like the most humble brag question of all time i mean come on just buy the car if you don't like it sell the car if it you feel that guilty but this is a tiny portion of your net worth of your world and that's how we look at these things is ratios the other parameter is you don't want more than half of your income in cars mostly because they're going down in value and so it's not a smart move for your wealth building you've already built the wealth you're 50 years old If you just let half of this money ride out there, you're going to have a very sizable net worth.

You know, every seven years, that money could double.

That's invested.

So if you think about that, when he's 64, he could have 14 million if most of this is invested.

You're going to be okay.

The car is going to go down in value.

It doesn't matter for your world.

Just go buy the Viper and stop yapping about it.

Let me hit you with a technicality.

At what point, net worth-wise, do you think the

50% equation dies out?

You know what I'm talking about?

Yeah, once your net worth is producing enough income to cover all of your expenses and more, where your retirement's covered, you're going to be just fine, especially at 50%.

The 50% rule can kind of drop off.

Yeah, I agree with you.

So unless their lifestyle is astronomical and they're spending a million dollars a year, which I doubt they are,

just buy the car.

And what you'll realize is it's fun and it's still just a car and it didn't change your life.

So go do it so that you can say you did it and it's a cool thing and you're going to be looking for heads to turn at the stoplight and eventually other Dodge Viper fans will be looking over.

That's right.

Very cool.

I don't know.

I I see fancy cars like that.

We have a lot of wealth in this county that we're sitting in.

Williamson County.

It is one of the wealthiest counties in America.

I think it's in like number 11 or something.

Yeah, 11, 11.

You're right.

So we see a lot of nice cars.

And I'm not, it's like I'm unphased by it.

And the flashier the color, the more I go.

How much attention are you looking for, man?

You want to know what, though?

And this, I'm not a car person, but I'll be honest.

Sometimes a car will drive by, and my husband will be like, oh my gosh, like that's a brand new Tahoe or that's a brand new Cadillac.

And I'm like, it is.

Unless it's like a sports car, like a Lambo or like something that's really crazy, I typically can't even tell that it's brand new just by looking.

Take it to the car wash.

You could fool me.

So yeah, I'm happy for you, Sam.

You've done really well.

You guys have no debt.

You're retired at 50.

You're doing incredibly well.

Go buy the car.

You've earned it.

Do it.

Love it.

All right.

That was easy.

We got one win in today.

Sam.

Sam, send us the photo when you get that Dodge Viper.

Absolutely.

What's your dream car?

Oh, my gosh.

I have no, I think cars are just very utility.

So for me, it's just a new Tesla.

A new Tesla.

Yep.

With full self-driving.

Oh, gosh.

I know.

I trust it.

You're on your own.

I trust it.

Here's the thing.

I trust it more than my own driving.

Wow, that's saying something about you, George.

All right, let's go.

You trust the computers over your own self?

Yeah.

Oh, man.

What about the other people on the road?

Yeah, have you watched them?

They all are on their phones.

I dare you, Jade, while you're on the interstate, go see how many people are just staring at their phones while driving.

Oh, I've seen it.

Please let the computers take over because we clearly are not in a spot to do that.

If you want to give yourself anxiety while you're driving on the highway, just think about what must be orchestrating at all times.

The fact that we're not just all crashing into each other is pretty crazy.

It's really a miracle.

All right, let's go with phone lines.

We got Judy, who's in Michigan.

Hey, Judy.

Hi.

Hi, George, Jade.

Hey, I have a quick question.

We've been listening to Dave Ramsey since probably 93, 94.

We had bought a 40-acre parcel in northern Michigan as our vacation property.

And we've achieved the millionaire status.

Kids are out of the house, and now we're retired.

And we want to invest like $306,000 into getting a vacation home built on our property.

We have an existing home there, but it's beyond repair.

So we're going to have that knocked down, build a new home on it.

And we're just very anxious about do we want to get rid of cushion of money that's in our money market account and invest it in this home.

I mean, I think of it as an investment, not a purchase.

And

we're due to sign papers next week.

And I'm just thinking, what do you guys think?

Well, let me challenge the language because if it's just a toy for you guys, it's not making you money.

It's probably costing you money once you factor in insurance and property taxes.

Yes, there will hopefully be some appreciation, but

just free yourself and go, we've earned it.

We've worked really hard.

So how much cash are we talking out of your total nest egg?

Well, we have about 1.1 million net worth.

Okay.

We're going to be investing probably about $306,000 into this new build.

And what's your current house worth?

Our existing home, $250,000.

All right.

And so you have about half a million, a little more, sitting in retirement accounts or other savings?

Yeah, we have investment accounts into a mutual fund.

So the question is: can you guys still retire if you deplete it by $306,000?

Will your retirement nest egg still create enough income to cover your expenses in retirement if you remove that $300,000?

That was gross.

I'm thinking it will.

I mean, we bring in, between Social Security and our pensions, about $80,000 a year.

Great.

And we have

about $250,000 in our mutual funds.

That's outside of retirement?

So you're not even using,

you're living basically only off Social Security and pension.

You're not even touching a nest egg?

No, not even.

How old are you, too?

I'm 67, soon to be 68.

He's already 68.

Okay.

And you're going to use, let's say, a 306 out of how much of your retirement?

Our retirement?

Well, well, I just have my net worth as

because you guys have the cash, you're going to use cash to do this.

Correct.

Okay.

Yeah.

So if you, let's say you let the other, let's call it, I don't know, $400,000, $300,000.

Right.

So if you just let $300,000 sit in there until you're call it $75,000, you're contributing nothing to it, you would still have about $600,000 by then

if you didn't touch it.

So So you would double your money from 68 to 75 if you didn't contribute anything, but you also didn't touch it.

So the question is, can you survive off Social Security pension and $600,000 to cover you for, let's say, future health care expenses and whatever else, inflation?

I think the answer is yes.

Do you?

Okay, because that's the scary part.

Is everybody in good health?

Are you healthy?

Yes, both of us are healthy.

It's just at our age, it's like, do we want to get rid of that cushion?

I mean, because we've always been happy with this cushion of money.

It's nice to have the cushion.

The one thing that makes me think, and I'm not saying that this is enough to change my mind, but the vacation house is on property that you already own, which means let's pretend something crazy did happen.

It's not like you would just up and sell this property to an outsider because it's on your personal property.

Correct?

Am I right?

Could you parcel it out if you had to?

If things went really sideways, we could always just sell the property with the house on it and have that money.

Just that means that's what I keep saying.

This is an investment for us, not so much a purchase.

But it's not going to make you guys money.

So I'm just scared you're going to go, well, we're trading one investment for another.

Well, one is actually growing, and it's going to double every seven years.

The other might grow at 3% or 4%, and you're paying the property taxes and insurance and maintenance and upkeep on it.

So I would sit down with a financial advisor.

Do you have one right now that you trust?

No, we don't.

Okay.

I would jump onto ramseysolutions.com, click on SmartVestor Pro.

I would have a professional sit down with you guys, lay it all out, lay out all the scenarios to give you confidence.

Because this is a big purchase.

It is big.

I would not trust just a five-minute radio call to go be like, yep, boom, we're going to get

drop half our retirement on this thing.

I would get some more info on that.

But I think you're on the right track.

I think you're going to survive either way.

And I think it's time to enjoy some of the wealth you've built.

Your Ramsey show scripture and quote of the day, Matthew 7:16, by their fruit, you will recognize them.

Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?

No, they don't.

Tricia Cunningham said,

the individual who says it is not possible should move out of the way of those doing it.

I like that.

Listen, get out the way.

Get out.

She went ludicrous on him.

Luda.

All right.

Full Luda.

We love to see you.

Love it.

All right.

Hannah's in Wisconsin.

Hannah, how can we help today?

I am calling.

I'm a working stay-at-home mom currently.

And I am working on baby step one and trying to think of any possible way I can make that happen a lot faster than what seems to be going on right now.

Yeah, what do you think's the holdup?

Is it you're putting the money aside and you're just having to pull it right back out?

What's happening?

I think, yeah, so I think between bills and income, limited income, that's the main reason.

But

there's I mean, I usually go into town and work with the kids as much as I can.

And then when my boyfriend comes home to keep the kids, I work in the evenings.

So I'm going in and out of town twice a day.

Sometimes I already sell what I can,

eBay, Facebook, local Facebook groups.

One of the things, I guess, I know that you guys found upon

like children savings.

I have a few piggy banks that are not earning any kind of interest, just change in a piggy bank.

But I didn't know if that's

when you say kids piggybacks.

when you say kids piggy banks are you really saying like hey I've got children they've got money in their piggy bank maybe I can tap into that is that a ceramic piggy bank you're gonna hit with a hammer and get the change out to try to hit your baby step one literally listen yeah I wouldn't touch the kids money I mean what is it

it's

like a thousand dollars in there or is it like twenty bucks fifty bucks um well there's change there's you know cash and change and I don't I don't know I just kept stockpiling change and any gift money I guess it's a combination of everything in in there.

So it wasn't money that they got from a gift or worked for.

It's money.

Hey, I have spare change.

I'll drop it in this.

Yeah.

For them.

Do they know about it?

No.

Oh, listen, I might get involved in that.

Here's the thing.

Let's, let me, let me frame this.

I just don't know that Coinstar is going to be the solution to our baby step one problem.

There's something bigger at hand here.

There is.

And George is right.

There's three things that we need to kind of hit on.

Number one, any, the equation is always going to be the same, whether it's for saving money or paying off debt, hitting a financial goal.

It's income, right?

You have to have a certain amount of money coming in and it's outgo.

You have to cut back on the money that's going out.

Something tells me you're at a bare bones budget.

I don't know that you are, are you?

Yeah, pretty much.

I mean, we don't, we don't have internet.

We don't have cable.

We don't have.

Okay, then that means it's an income problem.

That means it's an income problem because most people, here's kind of a parameter, and you can kind of gauge yourself on this.

Most people do this, George, in 30 days or less.

Like baby step one should be a 30-day kind of deal where you're going so you're like a flash, like a streak of hot, right?

You're selling everything, you're working crazy hours, you're doing this in an extreme fashion to get this done in 30 days.

It shouldn't be a months and months ordeal.

And the fact that it is that makes me think you guys are really low on the income.

So tell us about that.

So I used to,

I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old.

They used to be in daycare.

I had a very well-paying job at the time, and daycare was getting out of control as far as cost.

It was $510 a week for my two kids to be in daycare, and my net was, and without knowing the exact details or recalling the retirement contributions and stuff, I was netting about $200 a month after all my expenses.

So decided to quit my job and stay at home to try to save money um so that kind of got me to where i'm at right now but you said you have a boyfriend so are you guys living together and he's covering the expenses

yeah and i also bring in about thirty thousand a year too okay i think that's part of the this is complicated relationally and it's making it complicated financially

Yeah, the 30,000 a year is tough.

Like, that's going to be tough to live on.

Yeah.

And how many kids?

I'm sorry.

Two.

two kids, how old are they?

Four and two, four and two, okay.

So, are you bringing home like two grand a month right now?

Yeah, that's the goal.

I've I do, you know, your

all-year delivery independent contractor type, I was on like three apps at one time, just to continuously have offers coming in to go, go, go

when I'm in town with the kids.

And after you're juggling a lot, I mean, staying at home plus doing all that and making 30 grand is impressive, but making two grand and trying to save up one of those while covering all the expenses on your own, that is tough.

Yeah.

So what does the future look like for you and boyfriend?

Well, hopefully marriage.

And once the kids are back school age, hopefully going back to work.

One of the biggest hiccups that about two years ago, we bought a car that we're underwater and now we owe about $10,000 more than it's worth.

And it also needs a lot of repairs.

So then I sit there and scratch my head, do I save up money to get the repairs done just to sell it?

Because it's going to be repairs plus the difference

just to get it sold.

How much debt do you have total?

$39,000.

Okay, and you're able to make minimum payments on all of those debts and cover all of your bills right now?

Yes.

You're not behind.

You're not going into debt anymore.

Correct.

Okay, that's good.

So you're just sort of breaking even every month without much to throw at your baby step one.

Very minimal.

Very minimal.

but that's why the baby step one's taking forever.

But think about it.

You're trying to pay off 39 grand, making 30 grand a year.

The math isn't going to math as long as you're a stay-at-home mom without a spouse that's also supporting you financially.

Hannah.

His income, too, is factored into all that.

What were you doing before you were doing all of the Instacarts and delivery apps?

What were you doing before that?

Or has that kind of just been what you've been doing as work?

October, I left my job at Frito.

Okay.

And what were you making there?

Between 60 and 62.

Okay.

So that's our goal.

We got to find something that you can do to get you back up to that earning potential that you had before, which I think could be even further beyond that.

But

I think it's going to cause you to have to get out of your comfort zone a little bit and really stretch for this because the truth is there are work at home positions.

There are things that you can do with a flexible schedule that can earn you more than thirty thousand dollars so i think that's where you're i think that's your homework i think that's where your laser focus is going to be is what can i do with the time that i have because the kids they're back in daycare now or are you taking care what's what's the current state we're not my four-year-old just started part-time 4k okay and that's why we have another two years with the little one before she starts school.

Okay.

And the boyfriend or whoever's in your life, is there anyone in your life that you can, that can provide some bit of child care in the day?

We're two to four hours away from any family.

And we don't, we're both new to the area.

We don't know very many people.

What caused you to go out there?

Distance from the city.

We're not city folk.

Okay.

We like to, yeah, we like to be out in the in the sticks, as they would say here.

Well, there's part of that that you're cutting off work opportunities for you.

You're cutting off, like you said, relational opportunities to get help in the the areas that you need.

So, this is a complex problem, and I think it's going to cause, like, you need to sit down and have some real discussions about where the priority lies.

Because if you call in the show and say, hey, I can't save $1,000, and then we find out half the reason is there's no jobs around here, there's no family to help with daycare around here.

Hey, but we like living out in the sticks.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Something has to shift in that priority.

We need a different variable here to change your result.

So, are you- you recommend me going, you know, one of the things I discussed was going back to work, but we felt like we would be back to square one.

Most of the income would just be absorbed with daycare.

Not if you can get the $60,000 that you were getting at Frito-Lay before.

Because why did you stop that job?

You see what I'm saying?

I think, like I said, without

me recently just catching on to Dave Ramsey's methods, I think I was probably contributing too much to my 401k.

You know, you were doing too much at once.

Yeah, but but we now know

more.

We now know that you have the capacity to earn, right, 60, 65,000, and that's really what you need to be looking for.

Listen, I trust you can do this.

All right, guys, that does it for the show today.

Thanks for hanging out with us.

Remember, there's ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.