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Normal is broke.

Common sense is weird.

So we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

If you want to get involved in the conversation about your life and your money, it's easy to do that.

The number is 888-825-5225 and we'll get you on the line.

I'm Jade Warshaw.

Next to me, Dr.

John Deloney, chopping it up with you for the next couple hours.

Let's go to the phone lines where we have Lee, who's in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Lee, what's going on?

How can we help?

Hi, I'm so excited.

This is a happy day, so I can get to talk to you guys.

So

recently,

my husband left four weeks ago today.

And the reason why he left is because I had found out that he took there was a back in 2021, he never paid a debt.

And I went to go get renovations on my house and found out that there was a lien against my home, and it was in his name.

So, this was 2021.

So, since then, in December, I paid that lien off with a HELOC loan because I didn't want it to go against my house.

He was on the deed.

Since then, I have found out majorly, sorry, it's okay

stuff that he has done.

So he got called and I guess he may be getting garnished wages

because he left after I gave him a few choice words and I found out that he had changed his address and that the state was coming after him from our 2024 IRS that we filed together.

That was the only year.

And they took his half and then he took mine.

So I am drowning here because he left.

He has not held his responsibility, any of the debt.

So

in North Carolina, they can take your 401k.

They can take your half of your house.

But I have worked.

Oh, go ahead.

Go ahead, hun.

Go ahead.

So

for eight years, I have worked my hell off for my 401k where I put it in a ROS.

So I'm gaining like $3,000

a month.

I'm 59 years old.

Okay, so let me back up.

Let me back up here, okay?

Help me

understand

the situation in your marriage.

Are y'all still married?

Yes, but he left, and I will not ⁇ it's done.

It's a done deal.

Okay, so have you met with an attorney yet?

Yes, yes.

Okay.

So

y'all have separate houses or he put your house up as collateral and some loans?

Has he just been running around running up debts and doing all kind of wild stuff?

Okay.

Well, so what happened was when we got married, which should have been a red flag, I had good credit, so I put the house mortgage.

He's on the deed.

So the mortgage based in your name?

Yes.

Yes.

And when they come after him,

they put a lien on my house, which I couldn't stand that, so I took care of that.

Okay.

You took the HELOC.

How much was it, Lee?

It would have started out at $21,000, but he disregarded it.

It was $27,000.

So the HELOC was $27,000.

And I had to pay two more loans off that I did when he wasn't working.

And what were those?

Those were, it was total $48,000.

So $48,000 of personal loans?

Two, it was the yes.

The HELOCs total 48, 27 was his lane.

And then the other two were loans that I took out because he's not been stable working.

Okay, so here's what we need to do.

I want you to hear what Jade is doing, okay?

You have several things going on at once.

One, you're really upset with yourself.

Yes.

The second thing is you've been completely taken advantage of by a dishonest, not good man.

And

number three, you have a big financial mess.

And so what we don't want to do is let the shame you feel right now and the anger you feel right now towards the people involved

cloud the judgment of we have a math problem that we got to solve ASAP.

And that's what Jade's walking through with you, okay?

Okay.

All right.

Thank you.

So I just want to clarify the numbers.

is it 75 000 total which would be 70 which would be 27 of a heloc and 48 of personal loans or was the 27 part of the 48

part of the 48.

okay so it's 48 000 total

okay

so and that's the only debt to speak of or is there other things are there cars are there other things that you guys are involved in together and separately money-wise um to get yes there is tell me about those since he since he left i had to use my credit card to get my attorney fee for $4,700.

And then I had to use some of it to live on because he just went drastically.

I have $14,000 on a car loan that I have.

And tell me

before you go to the car, you told me that you had $4,700 from attorneys' fees, and then you said you were also living on it.

So tell me the total amount of credit card debt.

Right now it's $5,400.

$5,400.

Okay, great.

And then there's $14,000 of car debt.

Anything else?

And then the HELOC and the Mahomes, which is $137,000.

Okay.

$137,000 is what you owe on the mortgage.

Okay.

So here's the thing.

You've already started, and John will probably talk to you a little bit more about this.

You've already started the process of getting a lawyer.

You're getting a divorce.

Okay.

That's happening.

How long were you married?

We were married nine years, total, 11 years together.

Okay, nine years.

So there's a good chance that a lot of this is going to be split up and you're not not going to be left holding the bag on this.

Okay.

So

in many ways, you kind of have to push pause on whatever your steps forward are because we don't know what the courts is going to say about this.

Now, what you can do today is, yeah, now is the time to separate your finances.

You have your own account.

You guys are no longer sharing anything.

The good news is his name is not on the mortgage.

probably you'll end up figuring out some situation where you keep the house and maybe you have to cash out his amount if that even works out that way.

But there is a lot up in the air because of this money and how it's going to be divided.

So today, let's focus on, instead of thinking about the debt and all that, let's focus on, are you able to eat and pay your personal bills today?

Are you working?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

I do have a good job.

Okay.

What do you earn?

$80,000.

Excellent.

And what do you do for work?

I'm a property manager.

Okay, great.

So you've got $80,000.

When you take home your paycheck, how much is it every month?

Now that I backed off on my 401k, it's 19, 20,

about 2,100.

It'll be about $2,100.

Okay.

Next check.

Every two weeks.

So you're $4,200 a month.

Great.

And are you using an every dollar budget?

Because that's going to give you a lot of peace right now.

No, I'm not.

Okay, before you hang up the line, we're going to get you with a budget because what you need to know today is that Lee can take care of herself each and every month.

We're putting the debt on the shelf right now because nobody knows what we'll be with that until we come out of court.

But on $4,200, can you pay your mortgage?

How much is your mortgage every month?

Thank goodness the mortgage is only $1,079

in the equity line.

But see, I have one question.

The $27,000, he accrued that the month before we got married.

But I'm paying for it.

He's not giving me anything.

I understand, Lee, but we don't, John and I don't get to decide how that money, how that debt is is split up.

Only a judge is going to be a bad person.

Pay the minimum and keep it from getting any higher.

Pay the minimum balance.

Okay.

And then when you go to court, your attorney should use that in his quiver or her quiver to help protect you.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

It just, it's, yeah, I get it.

And thank you so much.

It helps me a lot.

No, there's so much anger and frustration and shame and rage all wrapped up here.

And you've got to deal with a math problem ahead of you.

Uh-huh.

And so for you, yeah, knowing that you have the peace of being able to pay your mortgage, you can cover your four walls, your food, your utilities, your transportation.

You have the money to do that.

And, like John said, pay minimums on everything else.

Do not try to pay these debts off.

Wait until your court battle so that this can be settled in court.

Don't take out any more debt.

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Dean is in Reno, Nevada.

What's going on, Dean?

How can we help today?

Hi, guys.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, you bet.

What's up?

I was calling because I had a question.

I have two properties.

I'm 29 years old.

I have two properties in Bozeman, Montana.

And I have one of the homes has about $260,000 in equity.

I am $125,000 in debt.

And I'm trying to decide

what the best route is here, whether I sell and cash out, become debt-free,

and

invest the rest of that money, or if I hold that house for more long-term gains, because that was the original plan.

Okay.

Let me run the numbers out in a way that I can see them on paper.

So the first property, tell me what you owe on it and tell me what it's worth and what you think you'll pull from the sale on property number one.

So property one, I owe $188,000 and it's worth about four, it's worth between $450,000 to about $470,000.

So we can just say $450,000 on that.

That would be $260,000.

Okay, that's the one.

Okay, that's the first one you spoke about okay and then tell me about property number two what do you owe on it

property number two is a joint property with my girlfriend that one is

uh we paid oh sorry we owe 430 000

and it's worth about

maybe five

five if we're lucky we just put it on the market but it didn't, it didn't go for what we were asking, and we weren't, we were going to lose our butts on it.

So we decided to pull out of that and just keep it rented.

Okay, so you're renting that one now.

Is it losing money?

Is it breaking even?

Tell me about the rental situation.

So we bought that at the peak of the market.

That one is breaking even.

The mortgage on it is $3,90 a month.

We're charging $3,000 for rent.

Got it.

The other property is.

Well, hold on.

you're actually losing money on that then

correct yes okay okay because that isn't there's no there's no upkeep there's no emergency fund there's no roof needs to be replaced you're just barely you're treading water on that one

yes sir okay yes sir so now that we kind of see the the picture here one's got 260 of equity one's got i don't know maybe after fees 50 of equity is that fair enough

i would say less than that probably be around 20, 30.

Okay, 20 to 30.

So I mean, we're in at 30,000 with the remodel.

So in total, you've got about 2,000.

You're sitting on about 2,080 of equity.

Yeah, that's fair.

Okay.

Now, in the beginning, you said I'm 125,000 in debt.

Tell me about that.

So on the first house,

Well, I think that's the best.

Is that consumer debt?

Because clearly you're in more debt than that.

So were you talking about consumer debt?

Yeah, so the first house, I pulled a HELOC on it, and that was for $55,000, and I still owe $54,000 on it.

And when you quoted me, the numbers, was that including the $55,000 when you told me you owe $188 on it?

No, no,

I was...

keeping that separate.

So separate $55,000 and a HELOC, what else?

And then $20,000, I did the debt arbitrator.

So there's 20,000 and a debt arbitrator loan.

Okay.

And then I have,

so my dad, he gifted me $50,000 for the first house purchase, but that's been a huge problem.

And I've listened to the show a lot, so I feel very guilty.

So you got to give dad back $50,000.

I mean, it was never discussed under that, but it's created problems.

Get it back to him.

Getting it back.

Okay, so

that's the 125.

Okay, so this is pretty simple.

I think.

I think you need to sell both of these properties.

Where are you living?

Where do you live?

Currently, it's messy.

My girlfriend and I, we have a son together, and

we are working hard to try to figure things out right now.

I know, but where do you live?

So

I'm back currently with my father.

Okay.

So you're living with dad?

Are you paying any rent?

Basically, I'm trying to find out if you have living expenses.

Yeah.

So

I do pay rent.

My living expenses total about $3,500 a month.

Okay.

And what's your income?

$3,500 a month?

Yeah, because of...

You feel like that's high?

Oh, child support and all that.

Okay.

All right, you're right.

You're right.

What's your income for this $3,500 a month expenses?

It's roughly $8,400 or $84,000 a year, but I'm starting a new job September 22nd.

That'll push me to $100,000 to $120,000

depending on overtime.

So here's the problem.

That's not the problem.

The problem is not your money, okay?

Because it's really easy for you to go ahead and sell these properties, kick out this HELOC, pay back your dad, get out this loan arbitrator.

You make plenty of money to support your $3,500 of expenses every month.

The problem here is choices.

And John can talk to you about that because you're just creating a life of chaos.

You're going out and getting properties you can't afford, and then you're buying them with your girlfriend, and then you're having a baby with somebody that you're not fully in a committed relate.

Like you're doing things that's just creating drama.

And that's really where the problem is.

And you know that, right?

Absolutely.

And I don't know if this is necessary to mention, but I just got sober.

I'm proud of you.

that was a very big struggle.

How far along are you?

I'm coming up to two months.

You're about to get a 60-day chip?

Well, I'm not an AA.

I'm just doing this by myself.

All right.

Today you go to a first meeting.

Okay?

Okay.

Yes.

All right, good.

How old are you, brother?

I'm 29.

29.

All right.

Here's the deal, dude.

You're about to cross the threshold today.

And

if you go to your first meeting today and you call a realtor and you can go to ramseysolutions.com and find a trusted realtor in your area and say, I'm going to put both these properties up today.

And you make a financial plan within 90 days to get out of your dad's house and get your own place, even if it's a one-bedroom apartment.

You're going to cross that threshold at 30, sober.

You don't owe anybody any money you make six figures and you can begin to wrap your head around becoming the dad that you didn't have and the dad that you want to be and you and your girlfriend can work on your relationship and if it's worth investing in you'll go get a marriage counselor and see if we're going to make this a run of this thing or not or whatever but I want you to hear you're underwater and you can you it feels like you can't see and you got all this debt here and you're trying to do this you owe this guy money you get your dad's gone on and

Jade and I are seeing a guy who is right on the threshold of being completely and totally free from substances, from the demons, from the identity crisis, and from the money.

Do you see how close you are to the edge?

Yes, sir.

You're right there, man.

You are right there.

You've got all the tools and you're making six figures, which tells me

if you've been able to do that with all the chaos in your life,

bro, when you get these chains off you,

you're going to be at $250,000 in the next 24 months.

Unstoppable.

You're right there.

But I will tell you this.

It's my promise to you.

You cannot white knuckle this.

Yeah, it's been tough.

I know.

You got to walk through the doors of a meeting and sit down and say,

hey,

my name is Dean, and

I'm struggling.

That's today.

Okay.

Okay.

And I promise there'll be a meeting in your your area.

Game on, brother.

Day one.

It's day 30 or day 60, but we're going to give you day one today.

I'm proud of you, man.

Proud of you.

And Jade, I love what you said.

It's not the money.

It's not the money.

He's making money.

He's a smart guy.

He can clear this debt literally the moment these houses sell.

But he's so smart that he fell for

you're stupid if you don't have rental properties in this false truth called passive income.

And you're stupid if you don't have this.

And you're stupid if you don't have that.

And then you wake up and you're almost 30, and you're struggling with substance, and you live with your dad.

And it's about doing the next right wise thing.

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I love talking about this.

John, I've told you before, when Sam and I used to rattle through life with no insurance, just living on the edge like Aerosmith with nothing.

You're crazy.

And then my husband broke his finger.

And I was like, listen, head on over there to CVS.

We're doing a ton.

Get you some tape, bro.

Like, that's all you have.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, you need insurance.

It's important.

All right.

Amy's in Wisconsin.

Amy, how can we help today?

So I'm wondering

how can I nicely tell my fiancé that his parents' financial

shortcomings aren't his job to solve.

Ooh.

I'm looking at John.

Yeah, I mean,

my first answer would be just to read back what, I mean, to to say back what you just said, to sit down and say, hey, honey,

your parents' financial challenges aren't yours to solve.

I'm assuming that you've tried that in 1700 other iterations of that.

And so I think the deeper question is less about you asking him, it's you asking yourself, do I want to, here at the doorstep, do I want to be married to somebody who will put his parents' financial shortcomings ahead of the family that we are about to start co-creating together.

That's the real question here.

All right.

I just,

I mean, I understand

some of it, but like

it's at some point we were paying their mortgage and, you know.

Tell us how the conversation goes.

When you say what John said, which is, honey, dear,

I can't live like this.

Your parents, their struggles, they're not your fault.

We can't solve them.

We've got to solve our own, for our own financial peace.

What does that conversation look like and what does he do?

It's usually, I mean, it never really ends in a fight or anything like that, but it's usually like

you're still my parents.

I don't want to see them fail.

And I mean,

I get that.

I do.

But like,

at what point is it, at what point do you let them learn for them theirselves?

Yeah, listen, you're right.

You are correct.

So you don't have to convince us that there's a point.

He's beyond the point.

My question is, is he an only child?

Is there some sort of

hardship that's caused them to have financial struggles?

Or is it truly just misbehavior with money?

And he's the responsible sibling and feels like he's the hero.

He's the oldest of four, and no, there isn't really anything that's causing them to lose money.

It's like they have

a bunch of pets and they can't pay their light bills, so they go out and get a dog, you know?

Yeah, like,

yeah.

But, but you gotta, you have, you have to metabolize that the bigger issue here is not your parent, not your future in-law's financial situation.

It's that you sat down with your fiancé and say, said, hey, this is a big deal to me, and your choices are impacting our life together.

And he said, Nah, I don't care.

I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing.

That to me is the bigger issue here.

This is a big deal.

And by the way, this will show up again when y'all get married.

This will show up again when y'all buy a house.

This will show up again when y'all start having kids.

This kind of indifference to you saying, Hey, this is really important to me, and him going, Yeah, I don't care.

That's going to keep showing up.

And you have to ask yourself, Am I going to sign up for this for the rest of my life?

Listen, what John is saying is so true.

Amy, I'll tell you.

A piece of advice that my mom gave me when I got married.

She said, the behavior you allow now is the behavior you'll allow for the rest of your marriage.

And so it was basically saying, if I let this slide now, to John's point, I'm going to keep seeing this type of behavior play out, play out because I've allowed it.

And I said this is okay.

And people treat you the way you allow them to treat you.

So if you say it's okay, then it is okay.

So I would not, this is hot take.

I would not marry this person until we have figured out how to solve this and I have seen how he enters into and solves conflict.

Absolutely.

And by the way, neither Jade nor I are against supporting parents at all, but I want to do it in the right order.

I want to put our oxygen mask on first and make sure, as for me and my house, we've got our four walls taken care of.

We are able to financially support somebody else.

And my guess is that y'all are struggling too financially.

Do y'all live together?

We do.

We actually got engaged and then recently after found out that we were pregnant.

Okay.

So

y'all have your own financial challenges ahead of you, and you're concerned that he's putting money in their account and they're being irresponsible.

It's not even a matter of them like struggling with poverty or health issues.

They're just making bad choices, right?

Jade is so right.

You have to have the deeper, harder conversation Because right now, your

fiancé's parents' financial situation, that's just the proxy war.

That's not the real issue.

The real issue is you said, hey, this matters to me.

And he said, yeah, I don't care.

Or they're more important than you.

And in many ways, he's now also continuing that same chain of bad financial behavior and making bad financial choices.

Right.

Because choosing to pay for something that's neither your responsibility or priority instead of what actually is, yeah, that's that's how you get in the situation that the in-laws are in.

So he's starting to repeat that behavior, which is a red flag.

All right.

All right.

So let me say that you're not crazy.

Okay.

You're not crazy.

And by the way,

this isn't the only thing he disregards what you want or feel, is it?

No.

No.

These kind of things don't happen in a vacuum.

People don't work together and they're not aligned on vision and goals and values and priorities.

And then there's one weird thing over here.

That's just not how people operate.

And so you have to be honest with yourself.

And by the way, you're in his life forever because y'all created a human together, right?

So there's going to be some peacemaking here.

But it's not too late to not bind this thing together legally and get into a big, a bigger mess, if you will.

Y'all are already connected forever.

But I want you to be honest about the state of your relationship and how he dedicates his life to service to you and vice versa, or how he is just dragging you along through whatever he gets good and ready to do in the world.

All right.

So I guess

do I stop asking nicely at this point?

Do I just say, hey, dude, get your head out of your butt?

I think it's when you enter into those conversations with you, with the word you, why oh, you, when you start those conversations with the word you first,

you're starting a fight.

You're declaring war, and he's going to defend himself.

What's more important here is for you to come up with your or what statement.

I am going to fill in the blank.

I will not be married to somebody who puts other people's priorities ahead of ours.

I will not marry somebody who doesn't care what I want or what I feel or what I want to co-create.

I will will not engage in.

And so it's not about you need to get your head out of your butt.

It is gently and firmly and in full control, I will not fill in the blank or I am going to fill in the blank.

That's the declaration.

And then he gets to decide: does he want to be a part of this thing or not?

Ooh, tough stuff, John.

Tough stuff.

We're rooting for you, Amy.

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All right, today's question comes from Veronica, Miss Veronica Vaughan, in California.

She writes, my husband and I are less than a year away from being debt-free.

We are self-employed and have been married for 28 years.

My husband is a hustler who works seven days a week.

I'm worried that when there's no more debt, he won't be as motivated.

As he's leaving the house in the morning, he'll often ask me, how much do I need to make today?

How do we continue the hustle when we get to the investing saving part and we quote unquote don't need the money?

I love this question.

I like this question a lot.

So I see what you're saying, Veronica, about you're wondering if he's going to lose, like take his foot off the gas or like lose motivation.

But

I think it's actually the opposite.

So let me kind of explain that.

I think, John, that when you are in debt, debt rules all.

It is the driver of everything

all day for that guy's money.

Yeah.

I mean, but it's, it, it, you're right.

It is a driver.

I've got to make money so that.

And the so that is so that I can pay off debt, so that I can keep making more payments, right?

So your mind in many ways is very limited to that thing.

When the debt is gone, in many ways, it's like, you know, when you've been wearing a pair of tight jeans all day or like a tight, you finally, or you get home, you take your wig off, you're like, oh, I can breathe.

Like I can finally just be comfortable and I can look and see other opportunities and other things.

It's not just, you know, tunnel vision goggles on my debt.

And so there's part of this that, yeah, when you're out of debt, things will change.

Priorities will change.

You guys might look at your life and go, oh my gosh, we thought this was the goal, but now that we can see and we're comfortable and we can actually afford to have options in life, right?

You start to look at other things that might have been, that might be important to you that you never could have even thought about before.

So I do think you might see a shift, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing.

It really is,

you know, Dave Ramsey.

John says all the time when he's talking to small businesses, he's like, yeah, move at the speed of cash because when you have debt, it changes the decisions that you make.

It changes the spirit in which you do things because there is a lot tied to debt.

Now you've created this pressure in your life, right, to pay the debt.

And it's the same thing in personal life.

When that pressure to pay that debt is gone, yeah, you can look up and go, you know what?

We see it all the time on the show.

I want to be a stay-at-home mom, you know, or you look up and go, you know what?

We thought that what we really wanted was to buy a bunch of new cars right after the debt was gone.

But really what we want is to just enjoy life.

And suddenly maybe you don't want to take a vacation.

Maybe you just want to sit at home and enjoy your home, right?

There's so many things that shift and change because that barrier that was on your heart and mind is just gone.

So I would say, let's see what happens.

Let's not make it a problem.

Or let's talk about it.

Yeah.

We need to talk about it now.

That's good.

But you won't know.

You won't know.

But also,

your husband needs to stop working seven days a week and hustling when you don't have any debt, Veronica.

That's what I'm saying.

If you're already hating on him in the future, like he's not going to want to work seven days a week.

No, he shouldn't.

Y'all are running from

your lives right now.

And so what is it always,

we're going to shift to being intentional with this.

Right.

And, but

I think there's a,

man, there's such a problem in modern, probably all marriages, but modern marriages, which is,

I need to have a conversation.

I imagine a future where this thing happens and then you're going to do a thing and I start getting mad at you about the thing or frustrated with you about the thing that hasn't even happened yet that I don't even have proof is going to happen.

So

have the conversation now and not with, are you going to be this motivated?

We don't owe any money.

Not that way, but hey, we're getting really close to being out of debt.

What does our life want to look like then?

Like you were talking about.

Like, what do we want this thing to look like?

And he probably is going to say, I'm tired of working seven days a week, 365 days days a year.

I want to exhale.

And you might say, well, I like how much money you make when you work seven days a week.

And I can't wait to spend all of that money on me and us.

And y'all need to have that hard conversation.

Yeah, I agree.

This sounds like a...

It's an imagination.

But

it's an imaginary character assassination.

You know what I mean?

It's very close to contempt.

It's very close to like, I'm up here and I work really hard.

And I'm afraid afraid he is just going to stop.

It's almost like, have you ever had a dream about your spouse doing something?

Oh, and you wake up and you wake up mad and you're kind of like playing it out.

And they're like, I have walked into the kitchen multiple times to get a cup of coffee, and I can feel my wife's mad.

And I'm like, what happened?

And she's like, you know what?

In my dreams, you know what you did in that dream.

And I'm like, what?

And she'll say, I know it's irrational, but I'm still mad.

Yeah.

And I'll be like, okay, I'll.

This is that, though, right?

Like, it's a scenario that played out in your mind, and you have told no one about it to even see if it's real or not.

So, yeah, John, I agree.

Have the conversation.

And yeah, there's going to be a lot of unknowns.

That's okay.

But at least say what you're thinking, which is, you know, how do you think you're going to feel when we're out of debt?

You don't have to say it in an accusatory way.

What do you want to?

What do we think our work life is going to look like?

What do we think this small business is going to look like?

This self-employed business?

What are we, what are we, like, whatever.

And if you've been hanging on to something for almost three decades of marriage, because I'm also seeing how many wives

would love for their husband to turn around as they're leaving the house and say, How much money do you want me to make today?

Okay.

And she goes, This much.

He's like, I'm on.

Got it.

Right?

Yeah.

It might be that he thinks he's loving you every morning, Veronica.

And if you tell him, hey, when you ask that question, it kind of freaks me out.

It makes me think you're trying to do the bare minimum.

And he might say, no, no, no, no, I'm trying to

show you that I'm all in for it.

Like, it's

conversations.

The only way that he can earn her

respect and love.

Respect is, yeah.

Because he's working seven days a week and I don't didn't seem to be getting it.

So maybe if I, anyway, it's having those bigger conversations that I think are awesome.

Yeah.

But yes, I found, to your point, I found myself, I worked really hard to get out of debt

and I thought peace would be taking my foot off the gas.

And it was actually an opposite.

Once I realized, oh, now I can earn money for you forward, not just paying some other guy that already took it from.

I wanted to work so much more because I realized, oh, I can do it and it's going to be mine.

It's going to be ours.

And so that changed my whole, the whole trajectory there.

Oh, good stuff.

All right.

Thanks for the question.

Really, really good.

Let's go to the phone lines.

We got Brett, who's in Maine.

Hey, Brett, what's up?

How can we help today?

All right.

Good afternoon.

Hope both are doing good.

My question for you is, so I have been dating this girl for a little bit now.

And we both kind of came into this with the idea like we are dating for intentions to marry.

Yeah.

And I'm very much a planner.

And so I'm kind of curious what your thoughts are for budgeting for an engagement ring and where the best source of, because I pulled the money in different spots, like where the best source, whether it's drawing from investment accounts or if it's better just to start saving up.

And so you don't have to hamper or touch the investments at all.

Kind of what the best route to go for that.

Yeah, excellent question.

Listen, congrats on the successful relationship.

I 100% would not pull the money out of any investment accounts.

Like those are plugged in for a reason.

They're there to build wealth for the future.

So don't rob yourself by draining those accounts.

Plus, you don't want to get hit with fees and taxes, right?

It sounds like this is something that you can cash flow over time and just save up for what you're looking for.

You know, we would say 30 days, you know, 30 days of work is probably a good place to start.

Some people might argue that and say it needs to be a little more, or some people might say it needs to be a little less.

At this point, it really is about what you, I mean, obviously you want to get a ring that you think she's going to like and, you know, that sort of thing, but it's pretty simple.

Save up 30 days worth.

What do you say, John?

What?

I say don't call strangers on a podcast and ask them this question.

Like, save up what you think the ring is

a good amount.

I mean, we've, I've taken calls on the show where it's like, hey, I'm spending $25,000.

And my personal, I was like, you're an idiot.

And Dave was like, no, he's not.

And so

everybody's different on this deal.

And so it's what you can afford.

Yes.

You can pay cash for.

What is it?

Like, it's two months salary.

No, it's not.

But it might be one month.

It might be four months.

It just depends.

It depends.

And some of you guys can go put a quarter in one of those little tourney things in front of the pizza parlor.

Please don't do that.

Whatever.

You do you, boo.

Just pay cash.

That's it.

Oh, that does it for this hour of the show.

Keep on listening.

We got more coming at you.

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So, we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Ones Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Jade Warshaw.

Next to me, Dr.

John Deloney, taking calls about your life, your money, for the next couple hours.

888-825-5225 is the number that gets you on the line.

Let's go to the phone lines.

We got Darby in Nebraska.

What's up, Darby?

Hey, thank you guys for taking my call.

No problem.

How can we help?

So I have a unique situation.

All right, let it wrap it.

So

I was a stay-at-home mom.

I'm sorry.

No, you're good.

I've been a stay-at-home mom for the last seven years.

We found some issues with the current home that we're renting.

There's nowhere else to rent in our area, even

towns 20, 30 miles away.

So we saved up money.

We are in the middle of building a house.

And

I went and got a job about four months ago.

to just give us some extra cushion.

We have no debt,

But

I have lost several child care options due to my son's

unique medical condition, I guess you would call it.

And

we don't know what to do.

What's his medical condition?

What's his challenge?

So

we moved into this house when he was one.

He just turned five.

Last December,

he was like so nonverbal.

I was like, is he autistic?

They did a random blood test and found out he has extremely high lead levels.

And it's in the dirt around the home that we live in.

And he's a boy.

He eats dirt.

Didn't think anything of it.

So yeah, his lead levels were through the roof.

I did a detox with him.

He has finally started talking, but he's only been talking for the last, oh, six months or so.

So he's pretty,

at this time, he's pretty delayed, right?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

Like physically,

he's fine.

Sure.

Have you gotten neurological testing done?

No, we've done.

Or have you gotten him psych evals?

Or developmental evals?

No.

They think that he's good because,

like, he knows he can count all the way to 20.

He knows all his ABCs.

He recognizes numbers and letters.

It's just verbal that he is behind.

Is he in a speech path program?

Yes.

Okay.

Very good.

And so what is it about his speech challenges that make childcare impossible?

So because he's very independent, because

no one's been able to understand him for the longest time.

So

he will ask, and if he's not being understood, he just goes and does it.

And

sometimes he's a little rebellious, and he gets very

frustrated

and mad when he's not being understood.

And he will repeat over and over a word.

And which is like, I love his stubbornness because that's what's got us this far.

Like him

constantly.

Are you underselling it?

Because what you're telling me, that's a very

those are just five years.

I mean, it's just working with four and five and six and seven-year-olds.

Or does he start smashing stuff?

I'm trying to figure out.

No,

he never gets destructive.

Okay, here's what I hear.

I hear a mom who is underwater with guilt

that somehow you did something wrong to this little boy, and I want to free you from that.

You didn't

Okay,

you're a good mom

Your husband's a good husband.

He's a good dad

Yeah, he's a very hard worker.

I know and you are too And this is a hard messy situation because nobody likes to uncover oh my gosh the home we live in our one safe place actually is responsible for making our kids sick.

Nobody wants that and here we are.

Okay

My fear is you guys have boxed yourself into an either-or situation, and now you're building a house that you can't afford

or that you can barely, barely, barely afford.

And maybe you couldn't rent a house, but I would have suggested if you'd called us a few months ago, get a two-bedroom apartment.

This is a very short-term situation right now.

But there's other solutions, but here we are.

You've you all build a house.

I'm assuming y'all are under contract and everything.

This thing's going forward?

Yeah, yeah.

We've got started on it, and yeah, we have three kids.

Okay.

He's our middle.

Okay.

Are you able to make this payment?

Are y'all able to live comfortably without your salary?

We can, yeah.

So, without my salary, it's our monthly payment will be

right at that 25%.

Great.

I just really want the extra cushion to

because we have livestock

and our lives are very unpredictable.

And if there is something else that my middle child needs,

like I had to go do a bunch of research on this because there was no research on kids with lead poisoning.

There is countless, countless reams of research on lead poisoning in children.

And if your physician doesn't know, you got to move on from that physician.

It is,

I mean, there's so much literature out there on it.

Tons.

And it is a big deal.

It's a very, very big deal.

That's why they removed it from paint, except in older,

I don't want to derail us.

It is out there a lot, okay?

But also, Googling everything can make you, it can trap you, right?

Yes.

So here's the bigger situation.

You and your husband need to sit down and say, hey, we've created a life with a ton of variables in it, and we have three kids, and we're building a home, and we're moving.

There's anxiety alarms ringing all throughout your house because y'all have put too much on this plate in this particular season.

And it may be for this season, we're going to reduce the amount of livestock we have, or we're going to move our cows to another field for two years, and we're going to take that hit so that we have some margin to be with these three little kids, especially the one in the middle with special needs.

Or, and I'm just making something up, but anytime somebody somebody calls me and says, We have this problem or that problem, and either or, I want you to at least go through the exercise of putting three or four other variables on the table just to see.

Let's move from Nebraska.

What would that look like?

We can't do that.

Okay, we at least want to put that on the table.

We are going to sell this house that we just put a thing in because I think we found a rental house.

Well, we're not going to do that.

So, I want you to, I want you to at least go through that exercise.

Do we have to have all these cows?

Do we have to?

Do we have to?

Do we have to?

And sometimes you can clear away some of the nonsense, clear out that closet a little bit, and it's much easier to breathe in there.

Okay.

Okay.

And is there any other question we can help you with?

I feel like I just talked over you the whole time.

Well, yeah, we were just kind of looking at different, like, I was kind of trying to think of creative opportunities for me to make some income from home.

I do a little bit of like custom leather work already.

That's amazing.

There's never been a better time in history to sell custom leather work all over the planet if you can get it done and get up a nice e-site.

yeah, I think that's great.

I think anything that you're looking for, it sounds like right now you need money right away.

So, I'd probably look for something that's already contained that you can just get started in.

And then on the side, I'd start the leather thing.

And yeah, e-comm, that's the way to do it.

Or next door app or somewhere down the road.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all.

I don't understand this, John.

Why don't people want to take care of their family?

They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys, I didn't even think about it.

And one of my buddies said, Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them.

Me too.

They don't know what to do next.

Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here.

And, you know, you've got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow.

She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly.

These are the two options.

And terminal.

Take care of your dadgum family, man.

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually.

have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah.

To just miss you.

That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

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All right, let's go back to the phone lines where Brenda is waiting in California.

Hey, Brenda, what's going on?

How can we help today?

Hello.

How are you guys?

Great.

Well, let me just say, John, you're one of my favorite people on the radio right now.

And I'm having had the guts to actually call your show.

And I'm so glad that you're on because this question has a little bit of emotion attached to it.

The question in its most simplicity is, I wanted to know if selling my business property would be a smart move to pay off debt and give me a jump start towards saving for retirement.

I've opened my business when I was 20 years old.

I've had it for 35 years now.

And over the last

since 2019, I was diagnosed with a medical,

well, with a bread cancer, I'll just say it.

There's no cure.

However, I do feel fantastic right now.

And so that's not really holding me back at the moment.

And then COVID, the shutdown with COVID.

And then in 2023, my salon was flooded in the California floods.

And so

I was, this is like my second go-around on trying to get on the baby steps.

And so I had to live off some credit cards pretty much from about 2019 to now.

And

how about Brenda?

Why?

How come?

Well,

well, I'll say with the flood, when the flood happened, when

our community was trying to stay there,

I'm a one-woman show, so I was literally trying to put 50-pound bags around of fan around my

50-pound bags of fan around my salon, and I injured myself.

I hermiated myself.

And because I have this type of blood cancer, when I went to have it operated on, they gave me too much blood dinner, and I was eternally bleeding.

So I had a long recovery before I was able to just, you know, go and

win another chair and start working.

I got that.

Did you file malpractice against these people who poisoned you?

No, I didn't.

Okay.

Here's what I'm trying to give you back.

I'm trying to give you back some agency.

A flood will take everything from you because everything's going okay.

And then a natural disaster, it literally falls from the heavens and it takes everything, right?

Yeah.

And it feels powerless.

And then when your body gets cancer, the very instrument that you walk and breathe and talk through and love through goes to war against you.

And it's scary, right?

Yeah.

It feels like you lose ages.

You don't even trust your own body anymore.

And then it's easy to make the next statement, which is, I had to, for the last six or seven years,

live off credit cards.

No, I didn't live off credit cards for six or seven years.

I lived off credit cards for five months.

Oh, for five months?

That's what you're saying.

I thought you were saying you've been doing it since 2019.

Okay.

No, so for five months during the flood time, because I was already on trajectory.

So during the flood time.

So you're off the sauce.

Okay, thank you.

No, no, no, no, I'm asking you.

You're not using credit cards anymore.

No, I'm just trying to pay them down.

But with 30%,

you know, 29.9% interest, it's been really hard.

How much do you owe?

So I owe $24,000 in credit card debt.

And I have a I mostly cash flow to my son's college.

And so I owe $14,500

to a parent plus and then $10,000

at a super low interest rate that I got got during 10,000 during COVID just to survive during that

you know disaster also.

Okay, so a couple of things right off the top.

Let me ask you one more question.

How much do you make a year?

Okay, so there's a little trick on that.

Normally

up to maybe right now currently I'm about at 55,000.

Normally I make close to 100,000.

However, over the last two years, being in that I've been in business for as long as I have, my clients are either starting to retire and moving where their kids are and moved out of the area, or two, they're passing.

And so, as I try to rebuild, I'm not able to rebuild the clientele as fast as they're dropping off when they go and move to other areas.

So, that's where I'm at right now.

So,

here's a couple of, this is me sitting with you at the table, okay?

Not accusational, this is me sitting with you, okay?

We're going to choose reality here.

Yeah.

The reality is, number one, you cannot afford to be paying for your son's college right now.

You don't have that much money.

I'm done with that.

Okay.

He's out of college now.

Okay.

And so we're going to exhale.

We're not going to pay for anything that we can't afford.

The second thing is you have to ask yourself, do I want to continue to be in business doing hair?

Because part of your business is going to require you to really hit the streets to get new clients.

And you've been doing it for a long time, and it feels like you're going all the way back to starting to square one to go get new clients.

And that's what it's going to take.

and you're going to have to learn all the new technology and Instagram and next door app and whatever

but the your clients are leaving so you have to ask yourself do I want to be in this business and get back in like take the cycle all the way around and start this thing again and get new clients or am I done with this

No, I'm not done with it.

I have a good 15, 20 years of hair in me.

Okay, then that means you're just going to have to choose reality and say, okay, cool.

My people are dropping off.

Then I'm going to have to take one less client a day for the next two months and I'm gonna have to hammer the streets getting more people yeah

I have been doing that I have been you know posting I have more visits to my website now like I've been every day doing that with it you're gonna have to keep going keep going there you go okay so you're you're working on that problem and so talk to me and Jade about the bigger issue which is do you want to sell your property

so the business that I'm a one-woman show like I i said in the business that the trickery is um the fact that the i rented this building from um my father for many years and then about maybe i want to say 10 years ago um he was in some financial struggles and so he he basically deeded it over to me i there's nothing owed on the property yet what's it worth

um As of 2023, when I looked, it was at $380,000.

$380,000.

Okay.

So I'm going to simplify this a little bit.

My screen says I'm living off credit cards.

Is selling my business a good idea?

So are we talking about just selling the property?

Are we talking about selling the property along with your salon book of business?

What are we talking about specifically?

What are you thinking about offloading to pay off this $48,000 of debt, if I understood correctly?

The property, the business property, and building, not my actual...

clientele.

Okay.

Okay.

That would go with me.

And so where would you do hair if you were not doing it out of this building?

What would be the plan?

Oh, God, it would be a dream just to rent a chair and not have.

So what I've always said is like, I'm one person, two households.

I have, you know, two light bills, two gas bills, two of everything.

And people can barely live on with two incomes in one household these days.

And so that's where I'm.

So you want to be

out of the building business anyway.

How big is the building?

Property-wise, the land and everything is about 3,000 square feet.

Actual building property, maybe 1,500.

See, here's the thing.

Here's my question.

You don't, you, you owe it, you own it out, right?

You don't owe anything on the property, right?

It's just an asset.

And it sounds like

you might not be this person.

So if I'm putting this on you and you're like, hey, I'm just not that person.

I feel like you have a great opportunity here because you've got the space that if somebody wanted to rent a chair from you, you could allow somebody in your space, I don't know, that does nails or somebody in your space that does eyebrows and or an anesthetician, all of those things.

You have the ability to house those items and therefore make more money.

And with you, I don't know what your cancer,

you know, the foresight is on that and what that looks like.

But on down the line, that might be really good for you.

I don't know what the doctors have said, but if you come in a season where you're not able to be on your feet as much or you're doing a treatment, there's still something there that's earning money for you.

So that feels like a move to me, along with hitting the pavements, like John said, to try to build your book of business.

But one way to build your business is to add pieces to it that don't require as much of your personal time and personal effort because you're going to hit a ceiling with that really quick.

There's no way to scale out of that until you add people.

So there's part of me that doesn't think this is the move.

I don't think so at all.

Yeah, I think if you can just keep building your income above $4,000 a month, you can pay off this $38,000 to $48,000 of debt.

And I think that's the move.

That's what I would do.

Hold on to the building.

It's a wonderful asset and it's going to continue to go up in value.

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So, we have a fun segment here that we like to call asking for a friend.

You know what this is, John.

Whenever there's something that you kind of feel embarrassed about, asking about, I get that all the time.

Hey, just asking for a friend.

So, what if you're my friend's wife doesn't like him anymore?

I get that all the time.

Yeah, asking for a friend.

What is a James is always like, Hey, I'm asking for a friend.

Like, do these like really short pink shorts, like, do they like make my thighs look?

Or my friend wants to know if it makes his thighs look.

It does, James.

It's good okay

oh boy james is always asking for

i don't want to ever hear the word james and thighs in the same sentence the single grossest thing that happened in in in western fashion in the last 20 years is the increasing creep up

of shorts of the male shorts live biscuit did it right in the late 90s shorts should be mid-shin and that's it oh you are so right and they are getting higher and higher and higher.

I am the one who is buying shorter shorts for my husband because

show me the thigh.

Okay, here we go.

Upper male thigh is the grossest thing.

No worries.

It's worse.

Please, let's talk about asking for a friend.

Ask for a friend.

Asking for a friend.

What is an asset?

Why is asset coming out of short shorts?

Not

okay.

This is going off the rules.

Okay.

what is an asset in the way of money?

Okay, so assets, let's just talk about that for a minute because a lot of times you hear, you know, from the dude bros on TikTok and on and they're short shorts.

I need some assets, dude.

You need to be making money in your sleep, bro.

Right.

So they're talking basically, an asset is something that has a value on it, a monetary value.

It's money that if you were to sell it, you would earn more money, right?

That's kind of the best way to think of it financially, anyway.

And so an example of that would be cash money, right?

Like, that's an asset.

It's money that you have, right?

When you cash flow everything, you don't need to rely on debt.

So, it is something that is of value to you.

Something else, real estate, right?

That's an asset.

It's something that, well, if it's something that's a reliability, yeah.

That's true.

So, if you have equity in a piece of real estate at that point, yeah, it is an asset.

Wait, tell everybody what equity is.

Equity is if you pay money for something, and as you're owning it, it continues to go up in value.

So let's pretend you buy a piece of real estate for $400,000 and you bought it for $400,000 in 2024.

And then if you look up next year and it's worth, I don't know, $460,000.

And you've paid $40,000 down on the principal.

So now you've got

$100,000.

Yes.

Did we do that in a way that makes sense?

I hope we did.

So that's the idea there.

So a lot of times on the show, you'll hear someone call in and they'll say, I've got this real estate property property and we'll say, what do you owe on it?

And they'll tell us and then we'll say, what do you think it's worth?

And then we'll do that subtraction and that will tell us what the equity is.

Okay.

Another form of asset would be an investment.

Yeah, that could be your 401k.

That could be a Roth IRA.

Any money that's sitting in any type of investment account that is gaining interest is an investment and it is an asset.

Getting out of debt and having a fully funded emergency fund is the quickest right way to build wealth.

You would invest 15% of your income in a tax advantage retirement account.

Like I said, that's an IRA, a 401k.

And yeah, that is an asset.

It's a way that you're building wealth.

Next, tax advantaged accounts, another type of asset.

These accounts let you keep more of your money by reducing taxes now and later.

Okay.

So again, examples of this, a traditional IRA, a Roth IRA, an HSA, even the 529 savings account would be an example of that.

And other types of assets.

Yeah, your car is an asset.

As long as you're not upside down, if you could sell your car and pocket the money, especially if it's a paid off car, yeah, that's an asset.

Your wedding ring, if you sold your wedding ring today and you got, you know, a couple of thousand dollars in cash, that is an asset.

Boats could be assets.

Again, it's if you sell it and you receive money.

and you're able to receive more than what you paid for it is really what we're looking for.

So you hear this a lot when we talk about net worth, John.

A lot of times people don't understand the net worth equation.

They think if you're a millionaire, it's because you made a million dollars.

And that's really not it.

It is your assets, which is what you own minus what you owe, must be X amount of dollars, in this case, a million dollars, right?

So assets play into that equation.

It's what you own that is of value.

Did I cover it?

I think you got it.

Did I get it?

If you have questions, you can email James Childs.

I love that you snuck asking for a friend into and asking for a friend with the equity question.

That was good.

I was just trying to get a little bit meta here.

And by the way,

short shorts, the upper male thigh, not an asset.

I think you need to bring back the Jinko shorts.

Oh, gosh.

I'm working on it, man.

It depends on who you ask.

Not the Jinko ones.

I'm talking about like actual real car hearts that people cut off to make them shorts because that's all they had.

The real social depunks back in the day.

Those are the guys.

Hey, we saw Newfound Glory the other night at a local club here in town, and they had the long dickies, and it made me happy.

Okay.

Okay.

Shorts should go past the game.

I'm going to go

straight onto these phone lines where I got Carrie in Phoenix, Arizona.

Tell us what you think about the shorts, Carrie.

Don't.

It's just like a man wearing pink.

If he owns it, if he isn't ashamed of it, he can pull it off.

I love that.

The clothes make the man.

The man don't make the the clothes.

Wait, the man makes the clothes, the clothes don't make the man.

No, it's the other way around.

Yeah.

A short should go past the knee, right?

For a guy, yeah.

I feel like that's not only modest, they're appropriate, but otherwise, you know, some guys take it too far and they get a little bit of swimming trunk, if you know what I mean.

Not even swimming trunk.

No, like Speedo.

Oh, you know, we don't want that.

They need to, they need to come down to the bottom.

Okay.

That's more George Campbell, but that's a different show.

All right, so how can we help you, Karen?

How can we help you?

Okay, so did you guys hear about the storms that rolled through Phoenix a couple weeks ago?

I did.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay, we got hit pretty hard, and I took some damage to my home, which is bringing up the question about whether or not we should do a particular remodel that we have been thinking and planning about for the last like six years.

Wow.

So we have, like, if we did the remodel, we would have to obviously pay for everything, including the roof.

Well, now my insurance is covering the roof, making the remodel a little bit cheaper out of pocket for me.

Okay, so what will it cost you to do the remodel without the roof cost?

Okay, so it's not just the roof.

Like my tray, it picked up my trampoline and hit my back porch and tore my back porch off of my house.

Yikes.

In order to put the back porch back on, we have to move our septic tank in order to build the new back porch to code.

Will insurance cover the back porch because of the trampoline, because of the storm?

Yes.

Okay, nice.

Yeah.

So there's a lot of other stuff that it's going to cover.

Now, here's the nitty-gritty numbers, okay?

We owe about $450,000 on our home, but our home's value is $1.2 million.

We got locked into that 2.5 years ago.

But since then and after COVID, my husband got really sick with COVID, and we were on top of every single one of our bills.

We were paying everything down.

And when my husband got sick and some of our bills kind of went delinquent, our credit took a hit.

So

we have a total of $68,000 in medical debt.

We have approximately $90,000 in other loans between two cars and a horse trailer, personal loans, solar panels.

We only have $10,000 in credit card.

We have, between my husband and I, we have about $150,000 a year in income.

I'm an at-home mom, but i make the land work for me so we're on two and a half acres i board horses i sell chicken eggs i have like 54 chicken all right so get right write your question we're up against the clock here well my question the question is should you do this renovation right

Should I do the renovation, but should I do it with an HEA or a HELOC?

Please don't.

No, please don't.

Listen,

you're already in $178,000 of debt.

Here's the thing.

You have a great opportunity and I see the opportunity you're talking about.

You're like, hey, the insurance will pay for the roof.

It'll pay for the back porch and some other things on the list.

That is going to cut down on your renovation costs.

And if you were in a position to be able to cash flow the rest of the renovation, I'd be like, yes, I'm on your side.

Go do this today.

But the truth is, you're just not in that position, Carrie.

You owe a lot of money in debt and the income is great, but you're not there today.

So no, I would not do this renovation.

Have insurance fixed things.

Yeah.

Have insurance fix the things that need to get fixed.

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All right, let's go to Jay.

He's in Charlotte, North Carolina.

What's up, Jay?

Hey, thanks for taking my call today.

How are you, bro?

Daily listener, love the show and appreciate all the advice that you guys offer on

the interwebs and the radio.

Thank you, Jay.

Absolutely.

I've got a question for you.

It's kind of a kind of short to the point.

My wife and I, we own our own home, and

we're still working a little.

I'm working full-time.

My wife works part-time.

And we have two grown sons.

And one of them recently went overseas to go to school.

And we,

along with him, put together some money for him to go over and start

going to school overseas.

And now he has

asked us to

help again

and just wanted to kind of get

some advice and, you know, see what you guys would recommend.

What's he studying overseas?

That's a good question.

We're not really sure.

Yeah, I would not put another penny in this.

You don't know what he's studying?

None.

And I am as pro higher education as anybody in this building.

I promise you, maybe the top.

I'm probably the most pro-higher education person I know.

And I would not fund my kid to leave the country to go do a thing that I don't know what's going on or what they're doing, what they're studying,

what they are expecting to gain.

And by the way, if my kid goes to college, one of my rules is you have to study abroad.

I even believe in sending kids abroad.

We've got to get, I'm a huge believer in that, but you don't even know what you're putting money into.

So I would not one more penny.

Jay, how much have you given him so far?

It's it's between let's say it's it's around ten thousand.

Okay.

So and okay.

His

his mother probably knows a little bit more.

We think it's visual art, but we're not sure.

I'm not sure.

Is it is the uncertainty to answer me this is the uncertainty on your part or is on is it on his part?

Has he been kind of telling you and you guys are like, okay, yeah, and just not taking it in?

Or is he being ambiguous and not being clear?

Yeah, the

second.

Okay.

The latter.

Did he have

grades and end of semester?

If you're a VA student, you would have, visual arts student, you would have a portfolio that you've started your freshman year.

So he would have examples of art and examples of

all different sorts of products.

Have you seen all that stuff?

Some of it.

Yeah.

Have you seen the grades?

It's been a while.

No.

Have not seen any grades.

Level with us.

This is.

Level with us, Jay.

Do you think he's still in school?

Or do you think something else?

I do.

Okay.

Okay.

I do think he's in a situation where he is

kind of up against the wall.

He told us he got sick during the first

the first semester there and he got behind on some of his classes and I believe that he did get a job he never had a job before when he was here but he has a job now but it's not enough to generate and we did recommend maybe looking into other options like a small student loan or something like that but really without an income i just i wasn't sure whether or not he was going to be able to you know uh pass

the formalities of getting a student loan when he didn't have a job, but he does have a job.

I don't know if you can get a federal student loan to qualify for an

overseas university.

This, Jay, this is not, I worked with college students for 20 years.

This is not passing my smell test.

Yeah, it's not sounding good, but there's two sides of it.

I want to confirm that there's two sides of this here.

I agree with John.

I would not keep shelling out money for purposes that you don't know of or what it's being used for.

That's thing one.

But thing two is, um, there, it sounds like there was a lack of expectation and lack of clear conversation on,

you know, how we're going to school, who's paying for it, what's on the table, what's not on the table, what my responsibility is, what your responsibility is.

That conversation clearly was never had.

And so when you do come to your son and say, hey, son, I can't give you any more money for this.

Here's why.

But I also want to go back and say, here's what I should have done that I didn't do.

100%.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

He did a lot of it on his own.

75% of it was done on his own.

And

you still don't even know what it did.

Right.

What I'm saying,

that has been a source of bothering

me and his mother for over a year now.

So

if my kid came to me and said, hey, I'm spending 35 grand of my own money that I saved up.

Would you help me with the last 10 grand to go to college?

I would be thrilled.

Absolutely.

Sure.

But we'd still sit down before I wrote a check for $10,000 a semester, $40,000 over the course of four years.

I would still sit down and say, what are you studying?

What's your plan with this?

What is your day-to-day going to look like?

How can I love you here?

And by the way,

again, every college is different, and I can't speak for overseas colleges.

I know I spent a ton of my time taking students who got sick psychologically, physically,

like cancer, psychiatric issues, all of it, helping them get back on their feet and be successful that semester and or the next one.

And so just

it,

it just doesn't, something's not adding.

Something right.

Yeah.

And so I love Jade.

What Jade said is so important, though, because if you sit down and say, hey, I don't know what's going on, I don't,

then

he's got to have to defend himself.

If you sit down and say, hey, I blew this whole college thing and I want to start over.

I need some more information.

I didn't do a good job.

I wasn't clear up front.

I didn't ask you what your major is.

I didn't tell you I want to see some of the work.

I want to know what the plan is.

Why are we studying overseas?

What kind of job or life do you want to have?

Are you going to live overseas when you get out of school?

And is there a visa process?

Are you going to come back?

I want to know some of those questions because,

Jay, the question I'm hearing him ask beneath the real question is,

I don't know where my son is and what's going on.

Yeah.

And he's nowhere near me.

He's in another country.

All right.

Yeah.

There's a lot going on.

I'm not going to lie.

But I do want to make sure that I'm being really clear, just not only for Jay, but for other listeners too.

When it comes to college, John, you know, being able to pay for school, whether all of it or a portion of it, is really a privilege for both parties.

It's a privilege for the child to receive it.

And it's a privilege for the parent to have the financial ability to say, here's this money for your education.

Like, that's an amazing thing.

That being said, it's not a requirement.

Like, it doesn't make you a good parent or a bad parent if you can't afford to pay it.

But the one thing, money aside, the one thing you must do that is so, so important.

You've got to have these conversations before the fact.

Yes.

And you've got to have them more than once because you hear something and, you know, information gets lost and details get forgotten.

It's up to us as the parent to have these conversations and say, hey, here's what it is.

When you go to college, here's what we're going to do.

We got to pick a place that you can afford.

Here's what your mom and I are going to put in, or here's what, you know, here's what dad and I are going to do.

Here's what you need to do.

We're expecting you to work.

We're expecting you to earn $800.

Like be specific.

We're expecting you to cover your room and board.

We're expecting you to cover, you know, your apartment.

We're expecting you to live on campus.

We're expecting expecting to give you $3,000 a month.

Be so clear and talk about it as much as possible so that when the time comes, there's no question.

And start talking about it your freshman year of high school.

Yes.

Yes.

It doesn't sneak up on you.

It's like Christmas.

It will be there in four years.

And it's a simple reverse engineering math problem to say, we're going to have this many dollars in an account to help you.

You're going to be responsible for this.

And by the way, here's what the top three colleges in our state cost.

Or, this is reality.

Or like my dad said, hey, you ain't got a college fund.

So you better be good at sports or you better get an academic scholarship.

And that's the expectation.

And tell them that they're freshman year of high school, not their second semester senior year.

Facts.

We'll be right back.

Hey, what's up?

Dr.

John Deloney here.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show live in Fairwinds Credit Union Studio taking calls here with Dr.

John Deloney.

I'm Jade Warshaw.

And what is this?

Is this Ken Coleman producing the show today?

Yes, he's back there producing this segment.

All right, it's going to go off the rails.

We got Roger, who's in Florida on the line.

Hey, Roger, how can we help today?

Thank you for taking my call.

I'm retired about four years now, and I have a sister who's been estranged from the family for a very long time.

And I've been sending her about $700 a month for about 10 years.

Oh, my goodness.

Wow.

Yeah.

Well,

she's never really had a job.

She lives in another state out west.

And currently,

my wife is about to retire.

and the source that I'm pulling this money from is going to dry up.

Oh, man.

And so I'm in a spot, and everybody told me I was going to be in this spot.

You know,

I'm not sure I can sustain her lifestyle.

You can.

She's never had a job.

I know, but Roger, she's never had a job because she's never had to.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, she's never worried about tomorrow.

She hasn't had to because you did for a decade.

Yeah.

Right.

10 years is a long time.

Oh, man.

No, it's a long time.

If you add it up plus the incidentals along the way, it's a huge chunk of money in my world.

I was a modest income guy, but I kind of did the right things that allowed me to retire comfortably.

And I have a little royalty source, but that royalty source is going to dry it up, and that's what I use to fund this.

So that means it's over.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I guess my question for you guys is.

There has to be social services that actually can step in for somebody who's 75 years old and really doesn't have means and that's where I'm kind of falling short and trying to discover those sources.

Yeah, they're there.

She could be on Medicaid or, you know, what have you, but don't you think that's hers to discover?

I'd like to think so, but in some ways she just doesn't have that ability to figure this stuff out.

Is something going on?

Does she have any disability mentally that's developmental?

Is something that's causing causing her medically speaking to not be able to do these things that you know about?

No, there's nothing, it's not really that.

I think it's more of someone who's just been naive their whole life about this kind of things, maybe doing end runs around the system, whatever it might be.

And

somebody who,

for the majority of her adult life, has had other people just stepping in and taking care of it.

Well, I won't say that's the case.

You know, she's been married a few times and she currently has a husband that's not well.

They've always seemed to put things together in a very simple way.

But she has a husband.

Yeah, let me reverse this.

If you called her and said,

I have a hard conversation to have with you.

Let me know in the next week when we can have this conversation.

And you say, hey.

I've been sending you $700 a month for the last 10 years in 60 days and two more months that I'm unable to make those payments anymore.

And so I'm not going to be able to send any more money.

And so I'm giving you two months' notice.

I've been doing this for a long, long time.

So I'm giving you two months or even three months' notice.

And

I'm going to send you, I'm going to Google, I Googled this for you.

You can do this also, but I Google, I'm Googling Florida Research, Florida Resources for Elderly Folks.

And I'm just assuming that's where she lives.

Well, actually, she lives out in Nevada.

Okay, Nevada Resources.

6-1-1-2 does another.

And

I wish you the absolute best.

Yeah.

And here's the thing.

Does she call you on a weekly basis and say, hey, I need help with resources?

No, she doesn't.

She's not a guilt trip type person in this thing.

Okay.

Then

why do you take yourself on guilt trips that she's not asking you to go on?

True.

I will say that.

And I think it's a little bit of loyalty to her.

Although I've seen her like three times in 30 years, you know, it's a little bit of trying to be the good guy in this whole thing.

I know, Dan, but you've been solving a problem that it sounds like nobody ever even asked you to solve.

Well, no, yeah, true, too.

I stepped in at a lower amount of money several years ago, and of course, life gets more expensive, so I increased it.

And I did, you know, I don't, if I still had the wherewithal to supply her and keep her whole, I would do it.

are things are changing that's the point you know yeah

around me in my family

roger i don't think we can help you my guy because i you want to do this and as long as you want to keep doing this you're going to keep doing it like you just said if you had more money to keep doing it you'd keep doing it and so i don't think i think we're at a bit of an impasse in the way that you feel the need to do this you like you said your sister she's not coming to you saying help me figure this out you're just up and doing it.

And at that point, then yeah, it's just your choice.

We're not mad at you.

But since you called and asked, how do I tell my sister that I can't be her lifelong safety net?

We're telling you, you just up and call her and say, hey, I know I've done this for 10 years.

The money I was giving you is running out.

And not only is it running out, but I've also realized I can't keep doing this.

you're going to have to figure out a way to come up with that $700 on your own.

And it truly is,

the conversation truly is that simple.

I know it's harder to actually play out, but the bigger work is for you to figure out why you're having a hard time letting this go.

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.

Can I ask a question?

I have an inkling.

I don't know if I'm right, but just listening to you talk, and John is here, so he'll set us both straight.

But just listening to you talk, it almost makes me wonder if a long time ago something happened that you felt like you were supposed to be there and you weren't, and you're just making up for it.

I don't know the home you guys grew up in.

I don't know anything like that.

But I just wonder: are you trying to

make up for something?

Is there something that your sister should have, you should have been there for and you weren't there?

I don't know.

And you don't have to answer on this call, but it just sounds like there's something else there that's nagging at you and that's eating at you personally.

No, it's a fair question.

I think the basic root of it all is she's family.

And it's like, you know, what desperation she'll go into if this money's not there.

You know, it's like pulling the plug, saying, okay,

you know, before when I've talked to her about it, she goes, yeah, and this is the guilt thing.

Well, I guess I'm going to have to sleep in my car.

Well, where's her husband?

You said he's ill.

Is he just not able to contribute?

No, they're not at a point where she's never had a job, so getting a job would be very difficult for her at 74.

And he's ill where he really can't work.

So, yeah you know they're living and and this this is the point you know um listen if you want to be

if you want to be generous to john's point we're never going to stop you from being generous if you feel hey i'm called to this this is what i feel like doing but there is a component to this that you've also got to be able to afford that right and you said that you set yourself up to be able to retire but you also said the source that you were pulling from to fund this is drying up so the question you have to ask yourself is is there another source that i can pull from that's not going to take away from my family's ability to retire and be comfortable and my legacy?

And if you can do that, and if you want to do that, you know what?

That's your bag.

I do think that you're enabling her.

I truly do believe that based on what you're saying.

And you can't enable somebody and then complain that they

are

failure to launch.

That's right.

If you're going to keep funding it, you have to do that with a glad, cheerful heart and stop talking bad about your sister.

We've all done dumb things with money.

I've done them with zeros on the end.

One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it.

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All right, back to the phone lines we go.

John, are you ready?

Let's do it.

All right, Elijah, Dallas, Texas on the line.

What's up, Elijah?

I like that name, by the way.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Thank you guys for taking my call.

What up?

Really good to be on the Ramsey show.

Been a big fan for a long time.

Glad to hear it.

How can we help today?

So I followed Ramsey's rule about buying a cash car

and not getting into a car payment.

So the car that I have currently,

it was a 20th birthday present and

sorry about that.

It was a 20th birthday present.

I put half and my parents put the other half.

Lately,

this car has become a nuisance.

For instance, when we first bought it, we had to put $1,000 into it to get a new engine.

About a year ago, had to put another $3,000 because the transmission went out.

Yikes.

By the way, I'll pay for with cash, no financing.

Good.

You replaced the two big rocks.

Right.

At this point, it's only up from here.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Now, when I was in college, we ran into some financial troubles after my father passed away.

And

I played a role in this as well, but I did run up about $6,500 in credit card debt.

Recently, I paid off $1,500, and I was this close to rounding up all the money and then sending it for the biggest debt.

Okay.

Here's what happened.

First,

another $1,100 expense, engine mounts went out.

Engine mounts went out.

Okay.

So that's not the $1,000 for a new engine.

That's a separate amount, $1,100?

Yes.

Okay.

And then I was able to pay that and still be able to set myself up to be able to send all the money to my biggest debt, which is 3500 as we speak okay 3400 as of today okay

and then

um fast forward um now

the starter and air compressor had gone out oh my gosh

what kind of car is this

you won't believe me if i tell you it is the infamous it is a infamous nissan it is the infamous nissan maximum oh there you go

there's the problem right there my friend all right so here's the bigger question elijah

And you know what I'm going to say, what Jay's going to say?

Here's the bigger question.

Do you have $2,500?

Do you have $2,000 to go buy yourself another car that's going to get you six or seven or eight months more down the road?

Or one year down the road?

Because neither of us are going to tell you, we would be bad humans if we told you, you know what, after all this bad luck, you should go get a $15,000 car note and just get yourself a new Toyota, whatever.

We would not be good people if we told you to do that.

Because we'd actually be taking you way further back.

You're so close to the edge.

It sounds like you're getting super frustrated that you keep getting close to the edge and then keep getting slapped back by life.

And I get that frustration, but the solution isn't.

My buddy, I'll give you this analogy.

Here's what you're about to do.

I have a buddy named Jordan Syatt.

He's a fitness guy.

He's a brilliant mind.

He said, People get on a diet and they start taking their nutrition really seriously.

And then they have one night where they just blow it.

They just somebody shows up with a bag of oreos and they just hammer it are you talking about me i'm talking about myself my literally somebody dropped off a bag of oreos the other day and i crushed it but he said what people do then is they're like well i'm already off so

the rules are off and he said that's like walking outside in the morning and seeing you have a flat tire and then pulling out a knife and going around and slashing the other three tires.

And you have had a run of walking outside your house and seeing one of the tires flat.

And you're just so frustrated by it, you want to grab your pocket knife and go punch a hole in all the other tires.

And Jayden, I are going to tell you, please don't do that.

You're so close, man.

You've worked so hard to get this close.

Either pay the stupid money and pay off that crap and just get a starter and get a whatever and get on down the road a little bit further or go trade that car in.

It's depreciated all the way to the bottom anyway and put another $1,500 on top of it and get yourself a a $2,500 car.

Yeah, what'd you pay for this maxima?

So I paid $12,976.

And that hurts.

If it's okay with you guys, I'd like to run a plan I put together once I get this car back.

Okay.

It's very similar to what you guys actually just said about the $2,500.

Okay.

After all the repairs are done, I know the car will last me at least two and a half, three years.

Okay.

Within that time, what I want to do is just put together $7,500, 8 grand, and then actually go the Toyota Lexus route, get a 2007, get a 2008,

buy that, and then just get rid of this car, let it go for 40, 4,500, 5 grand.

Yeah.

I love that.

Love that.

Okay, so that's a good idea.

Yeah, I have an 06 Toyota that I, it will, it will last longer than me.

It won't stop driving.

Yes, I think you're right.

The only caveat is because, now I will say, so currently in my personal checking that I'm using to pay for this, there's $2,400 sitting in there at the moment.

Okay.

The repairs are going to be about $1,750, maybe $1,800.

That'll leave me with about $600,000, $700 until my next payday next week.

Okay.

Now,

I want to know if this is still a good option because I like to keep at least $1,500.

Actually, really, really three grand in my checking account at all times.

Why?

But as you can see, I've had a few setbacks.

Why do you like to keep three grand?

That's a big cushion for someone who's in baby step two.

Why is that?

I guess you can say I'm very extreme and I like to have money laying around for emergencies.

Yeah, but I also.

Okay, okay.

Here's the thing.

You get to choose.

Are you working our plan or are you working Elijah's plan?

Because if you are working Elijah's plan, that'll let me know I'm tracking with you on Elijah's plan.

But if you're working our plan, which it sounded like you said you were, then I got to hold you accountable.

So just let me know right quick, and that'll, that'll inform what we say next.

Because here's a weird thing, Elijah.

And this, how old are you, brother?

25.

Okay, here's a weird thing I figured out.

If I have $3,000 in an account and a mechanic says it's $1,750, it's annoying.

And I exhale.

And I got $1,750.

I'm going to give it to you.

Only got $1,200 left.

This is the worst, whatever, how much we got left.

Okay.

$1,300 left.

If I only had that $1,000 emergency fund, fund, that's all I got.

A, I got $2,000 less of debt,

which for you is a big chunk of what you got left.

And then when that guy says $1,750, I say, I can show you my checking account.

I have $1,000.

What can we do right now?

And you can get it.

And then he's going to go, well, I bet you I can get a good used part right here that will last you for another year.

Hang on.

Or I can't help you get out of my shop.

And you say, cool.

I'll go find another person.

And what happens is you force yourself into some sort of creativity that

you have to find a way, which humans had to do for all of human history until like 50 or 60 or 75 years ago.

That's the reason we stick to the plan the way it is.

Yeah.

I truly,

I couldn't applaud what John just said more.

You got to decide how you're going to tackle this because that $3,000 really is a huge catalyst in how this plays out.

So

going, so

for the solution, would you say, as soon as I get it back, trade this in and get a $2,500 car?

No, I was with you.

I'm with you on the idea that it's best to go ahead and do the repairs on this car, ride it out, because you said, hey, if I do this $1,700 of repairs, I'm going to be able to ride this car for the next two, three years.

And then during that time, yeah, save up the $8,000 and get you something more reliable.

But what I really want to attack is having, and I want to talk to the masses on this.

Yes, doing a zero-based budget should never mean $0 dollars in your account.

You need to have some form of cushion in your account.

But what that cushion is does depend greatly on what baby step you're in.

Okay.

If you're in baby step two, you need as much money at your disposal for debt as possible.

So when you think through a cushion, you're really thinking, okay, John, what is the worst that could happen that I would not have planned for in my budget?

What?

Amazon Prime subscription hits me.

It's 100 and I don't know how much it costs these days, 160 bucks, right?

For the year.

That's kind of what it is.

It's like, what's the worst could happen?

Grandma's birthday hits, Amazon happens.

So when you're in baby step two, that really is looking like three, $300, maybe, maybe a little bit more than that.

Because what it's not, the cushion is not an emergency fund.

That's not what it is.

Baby step one was the emergency fund, or baby step three is the emergency fund.

The cushion is just there, especially in baby step two, just to make sure those random things that happen to come out of your account don't overdraw you.

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There are new trainings that we do every single month and they're all hosted by a Ramsey personality, one of the money personalities, myself, George, Camille, Rachel Cruz.

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Alrighty then.

Scott is in Jacksonville, Florida.

Scott, what's up, man?

How can we help?

Hi, Jaden, John.

Thanks for taking my call.

You're welcome.

I have an estate question.

I'd like to start some sort of fund for my six grandchildren.

Two of the grandchildren have 529s.

The other four grandchildren do not.

And I'm just wondering the best way to start that fund for them.

They're between ages one and a half to six years old.

You are awesome, dude.

You are awesome.

I listened to your show a lot and I haven't really heard any questions like this.

So I'm glad I got through to ask you and Jade about it.

Yeah, for sure.

So you've got these grandkids.

Are you, what's the intent of the money?

Are you like, hey, I want to help them with education?

I want to buy their first car.

Tell us a little bit more of what you're thinking here.

Okay, the two of the grandchildren, they have college-educated parents.

All three of our adult kids are married, and four of the parents are college-educated.

So two of the grandkids have a 529 already in place.

The other four aren't sure about what their kids are going to do.

One couple isn't sure about what college will look like in 18 years.

The other one is a single income couple, and

they're living on one income, and I just want to be able to kind of put money aside for whatever they might need.

If they want to go to a trade school, if they want to buy a car, if they want to let the money roll and and eventually help them with a down payment on a house or if they get to 55

you know have some money for retirement i'm i'm not quite sure i'm just wondering the best way to to kind of structure it yeah so if it were if i were in your shoes i'd probably talk to the parents first uh so let me kind of put myself in your shoes i'd say hey i want to give the kids money what do you guys think so my first thing would be like yeah if you can help us get this 529 to where it's going to be that would be amazing right and then the next thing would be okay from there, we do Utmas for the kids every year.

You know, we contribute.

If you can help us contribute to this Utma, that'd be great because when they're 18, we're going to transfer that money over to them.

Or

the other thing could be, hey, we're.

For us, one of the things we really want to do is help them with the down payment for their first house, you know, when they're, you know, 28 years old, that sort of thing.

So I would talk to the parent first and find out really kind of what the need is.

Since for you, it seems to be, hey,

whatever they need, we'll fund.

And then from there on i'd see okay what do they have in place and how can i contribute this money to them uh how much are you thinking of gifting every single year

well i thought i'd start with maybe a

you know a seed gift of maybe two grand per child okay and then kind of go from there um seeing how they're so young i could put it in you know a more riskier investment vehicle you know that might grow quicker you know and still weather the ups and downs of the stock market i guess is what i i was thinking yeah and what and who and you would just place them as the beneficiary is that what you're thinking because i feel like you could do yeah beneficiary i i can't do a custodial i've been told i can't do it a custodial ira uh roth ira but i could maybe do something else i'd do that i'd work with the parents and maybe do an upma something that you can transfer that'll go over to their name when they're you know of legal age

Okay, like you said, two of the grandkids already have 529, so I could just, with those parents, I've already talked to them.

I'm sure they would just take the money and put it in their existing 529 since the other four parents that really have nothing in in place right now at all oh you know what

i misunderstood you when you said before that the other the other two kids had 529s i for some reason in my mind i thought you meant that they were fully funded like they didn't need any more in the 529

Oh, no, I don't think so.

I think they take any contribution we have.

Okay, then I would focus on that because here's the thing.

Even if they overfund the 529s over time, that money can be transferred in other ways.

Matter of fact, over time, it can actually be transferred to a Roth IRA or IRA over time.

So I wouldn't be too concerned with overfunding it.

And the truth is...

With any 529, there's that risk of, well, what if the kid doesn't go to college, right?

So

I would start with the 529s for all kids.

For the families that don't yet have them set up, I would say, hey, I want to do this seed money of $2,000.

Can I help set up a 529 for you guys?

That's what our mother, my mother-in-law did for sam and i and it's been great so i think it's a really really great gift that you're trying to give and that's the way i do it good call i like that thanks for the call all right i think we have time to go to mike who's in ohio what's up mike

hey thanks for taking my call no problem how can we help uh so my question was uh my wife and i recently bought a house and um the monthly payment uh with both of our income combined is pretty reasonable.

It's like a little less than a third of our income.

Okay.

But

we just found out we're having our first kid, and the plan was we were going to have her quit working.

But the problem is, with just my income alone, it's going to be a lot trickier.

Yeah.

What will that mortgage be with just your income?

So the payment is like $24.75 right now.

And then, so that would be like 45% of my income.

Okay.

Yeah, that doesn't work.

So we have to solve for that, right?

Right.

So the plan, hopefully, was I can refinance in a few months, and I'll get like the

fees and everything covered for that.

But that would kind of right around coincide when my wife is due.

So I was just, my question basically is: should we go back to renting when, you know, the rent was like $1,900 versus $24, so it's not a huge difference?

Or should we just stick with it and try to refinance the house?

When you refinance it, well, I have a couple of questions.

When you refinance it, what will the payment go down to?

So I'm trying to get a lower interest rate because it's really high.

So I don't know exactly.

I've listed a few.

Like, oh, if we got 5%, it would be like 2,000.

So

it's kind of up in the air, but

hopefully it would be better.

What's your take-home pay?

So I take home $5,500 a month after like taxes and everything.

Okay.

So

$2,000 would still be way too much,

right?

Yeah.

So that sounds like, and I mean, 5%,

you know, that's a pretty good rate.

So I don't think you're going to get anything lower than 5%.

So knowing that 5% would get you to 2,000, and that's still not near the 25% mark.

I don't think that that can be a plan.

Would you agree with that?

Yeah, it does sound tough.

Yeah.

I mean,

that's a big old percent when you're bringing home 5,500.

So

I think in this season, yeah, it could be that you guys are looking at selling your house because

how are you going to exist on that small percentage of your income?

Do you see what I'm saying?

I hate, you gotta, you gotta hear me, Mike.

I hate telling folks that they have to sell their house.

But when you tell me the numbers, I'm bringing home 5,500.

And maybe we can get in the best possible scenario, maybe we can get it to 2,000.

It's tough, right?

How much have you paid down on this house?

How much equity do you have in it?

We have, I think,

like 20,000 right now.

We bought the house really recently, but

we got it for under the appraisal.

Because I was going to,

Jade, I don't,

I haven't really heard us talk much on this show about this i think i've only heard it one other time but this i was wondering if this was a moment for a recast where you're the the the length of the mortgage and your interest rate stays the same but it basically recasts your payment based on what you owe remaining and that can really drop your monthly payment down without having to go through all the rigmaroo of a finance a refinance and all that but you don't have enough equity you got 20 000 bucks that wouldn't change your life at all yeah you would usually do that after you've paid off a big lump sum Yeah.

In this case, I hate telling you this, but I think for you guys, yeah, getting out of this house, because the truth is, it's not like you've done something really irresponsible.

Your life has just changed in a major way, right?

You've had it, you have a baby coming, and your wife is now saying, I'm not going to contribute by working outside of the home.

I'm going to work inside of the home.

So, yeah, your financial situation changes.

It's okay if your living situation has to change as well.

So, don't feel any guilt or negativity.

Yeah.

You have a new life now, you have a new kid, and so we have to readjust for our new life.

Yeah, new house, new housing situation.

Ramsey shows scripture and quote of the day.

Psalm 37, verse 23 through 24.

The Lord makes firm the steps of the one who delights in him.

Though he may stumble, he will not fall, for the Lord upholds him with his hand.

Slash from Guns N' Roses said, No one expects the rug to be yanked out from underneath them.

Life-changing events usually don't announce themselves.

Amen.

That's a fact.

We wouldn't have jobs, Jade, if that wasn't

life-changing moments, they are not a bug of the human experience.

It's a feature.

It's hurt and challenge and pain and unexpected things is life.

Man.

It's life.

And nothing lasts forever.

In a cold November rain.

Boo-yo.

Just had to do that.

Anyways.

And by the way, just as a callback,

Axel didn't, but Slash wore long shorts, as he should.

Axel wore very, very, very good.

You know, Slash has aged very well underneath that hat, I might add.

Like, you really can't tell what's going on underneath there.

Hey, he's done a good job.

Trace is in Salt Lake City, Utah.

What's up, Trace?

How can we help?

Hey, how are you?

We're doing good.

What's up with you?

Good.

So, me and my wife, we're 21 years old.

We have a combined income of $130,000 a year.

We're in baby steps four and six with no kid yet.

We started investing into our retirement in July and wanted to know if we can put more into each one of our Roth Iris to get it up to the $7,000 for each one of us instead of putting more on the mortgage until April.

So then, does that make sense?

So we can

max out that Roth for both of us before April so we can do it again for that for the next year yeah

maxing out the Roth so putting the 7,000 or 7,500 I can't remember what it is this year does that put you over the 15% of your income

so

yes but we'll we'll max out my Roth at 7,000 or 500

and then we want to also max out my wife's

another 7,000 right I yeah I understand that but I'm saying that 14,000 together is that more than the 15% of your take-home pay Um,

of your gross pay?

It would be.

Um, and we are still paying the house off, um, like the 15-year mortgage.

We still have on the 15-year.

So, just for the six months, um, I don't know, like I said, just to take advantage

of the tax-free growth.

So, you told me,

you told me you make $130,000 a year.

So, 15% of that would be $19,500.

That's what you have for the year to put aside.

So, you're wanting to put $7,000 in hers, $7,000 in yours.

That's $14,000.

So technically, you still have another $5,500.

What are you going to do with that?

And that's another question, too.

Do I do the traditional or do I just put it into a brokerage account?

We had just recently started making $130,000 a year.

Are you self-employed or do you have 401ks through your job?

I work for the state, so I have a pension and a 401k.

She doesn't.

And so we just do the individual Roth IRAs for each one.

Okay, so I love that you're doing the individual Roth IRAs.

I'd love for you to put the remaining 5,500 into your 401k.

Okay.

Yeah, that's what I would do because it's tax advantaged in a better way than just a typical brokerage account.

So I would do that.

Now,

what percentage, your pension, do you know what percentage that is?

What does that look like?

Because that's part of this equation as well.

Yeah, I get 60% of it when I retire at 35, but they don't take anything out of my pay.

Oh, okay.

If it is, it's not much at all.

Okay, then I wouldn't really add that in then.

Okay, so yeah, do the two Roth IRAs and then put the rest into your 401k.

Do you know?

I'm guessing the 401k is traditional or is it Roth?

Just curious.

It's either.

So I can do the Roth 401k or Roth or 3B.

Yeah, definitely do the Roth 401k option, okay?

Okay.

That way you're paying the taxes now instead of later.

Okay, sounds good.

Appreciate it.

All right.

I love that.

And then, yeah, beyond that, any money that you have extra, you're going to throw that onto, since you're in baby steps four, five, and six, you're going to put extra payments or extra money, I should say, towards your house.

And you and your wife can decide what that looks like.

It can change throughout the seasons.

It doesn't have to be double payments every time, right?

You're in a season of intentionality.

You don't have to be as intense.

So that's up to you guys to discover, you know, what the rhythm of that looks like in your life.

Very good.

I like it.

All right.

Kevin in Houston, Texas.

H.

Toe.

What up?

What up?

How's it going?

Can y'all hear me fine?

We got you, dude.

What's up?

Hey, I just had a general question pretty much.

I'm trying to figure out where should I draw the line whenever it comes to spending a little bit of extra money on things that aren't necessary, but add a little bit of extra comfort in your day-to-day or just overall life.

And I can give you a couple examples of what I'm trying to talk about here.

Yeah, tell me.

That helps.

Give us one.

Yeah, so for example, I recently bought my first

Economy Plus seat on a flight.

It was never something that I couldn't afford.

It was just something that I didn't really want to spend that extra money on.

I'm 6'1 for reference, and a lot of these airlines are getting kind of criminal with how little legroom they give.

Amen.

I decided, okay, I will explore it a little bit.

And it was the flight was just 20 million times more comfortable.

I could take my feet out a bit.

I could lean back and it was so much better.

But it wasn't necessary to achieve the goal.

Okay, let me ask you this.

I'm kind of feeling a bit guilty about it.

Yeah.

Where's the story

that you picked up?

Where's that from?

That

anything above necessary is wrong or

morally bankrupt.

So I guess my position isn't that it's wrong or bankrupt.

I guess what I'm trying to avoid is kind of just going down the slippery slope of I just end up spending a lot of money on the things that I don't need, right?

Just because it makes me feel better.

Okay.

But

that's my question: is what are some things that I should spend extra money on just because it adds a little extra comfort?

Feeling better is okay.

That's what I'm trying to get to.

For me, I cross the line when I start thinking I deserve this.

Okay.

That's when it crosses.

That's a moral line in my head that I don't ever want to cross.

But you know, if you are going to a work trip and you get that, you pay that extra $100 or whatever it is to get extra legroom on that flight and it lets you stretch out and lets you sleep versus being cramped.

then you're you walk a little bit taller, you're a little bit more rested, and you can go handle yourself in that meeting a little bit better.

And that's just a fact.

That's a truth.

Yeah, agree.

Okay.

And so if you want to get tactile about it, we can put an ROI on that.

I think it's a waste of time and money and effort.

The reality is, if you can pay cash for it and you have it, and it's something that will make your day a little bit better,

that...

Do it.

Do it.

I mean, I would give you a little bit more practical because I get it.

I kind of have a checklist that I go through in my brain, Kevin, that is kind of the green light to quote Andre 3000, if I can do this, right?

So number one is, am I a person who's out of debt?

If the green light is yes, check it, right?

Then I say, am I a person who budgets their money?

Like, am I on a budget?

Is this part, can I make this part of my budget?

Yes.

Green light it.

Am I, do I carry the proper insurances, right?

Have I done the things that I need to make sure I'm taking care of my family, life insurance, term life insurance, that kind of thing?

Green light.

Am I saving for the future, right?

Do do I have three to six months set aside?

Am I, you you know, saving for a down payment for a home, which is also a form of savings?

Am I doing those things that are important?

Yes.

And finally, have I prioritized generosity in my life?

If I'm doing those five things and have five green lights, yeah, buy the upgraded seat.

You know, do those things.

They're fun.

Matter of fact, if you want another piece of this, this is for anybody listening.

You should spend, if you've checked those five green lights, you should spend money on fun, F-U-N.

That is upgrade your food, right?

You're not eating top ramen anymore.

Spend more on groceries is what I'm saying.

You should spend money on upgrades.

That's the U.

Yeah.

Upgrade your plane seat.

Upgrade your furniture.

Upgrade your jeans.

And finally, the N is for new experiences.

Yeah, go on vacation.

Go to a concert you've never been to.

We want you guys to enjoy spending money because that's what it's there for.

You get out of debt and you do all of this, John, so that.

So that you can increase your legroom, so that you can have a better life quality with your money.

Like, that's the whole point of this whole thing.

Remember.

Comfortable isn't the worst thing.

You're right.

Remember, there's only way to walk with

financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the principle peace in Christ Jesus.