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Normal is broke, and common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life

from the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Well, as you can tell, we got a brand new studio sponsor, and we did a little bit of a new opener.

Been working on our opener a little bit.

The other one kind of sucked.

So we worked on it a little bit.

And we're pumped about this new studio sponsor, Fairwinds Credit Union.

These guys are absolutely incredible.

They've been a partner for a while now.

And you guys know, if you listen to Dave Ramsey for about 30 seconds, that I pretty much hate the big banks.

You know, like why you would do business with Bank of America and get mistreated the way they mistreat all their customers is beyond me.

Why you would do business with Fifth Third is beyond me.

Why you would do business with Chase, I have no idea what's wrong with you if you're doing that.

I don't get it because they just treat you like crap and you give them your money to do that.

Instead, we work with small regional banks and we've been an

endorser of credit unions nationwide for off and on for 30 years years since I started the show because I'm a huge fan of credit unions.

And the main reason is this, credit unions work different.

They're not a bank.

They are non-profit.

And the weird thing is the people that are the customers or the members actually are the owners.

Now, you don't get to go in there and say, I want that desk.

It's not yours, okay?

You're not that kind of an owner, but you're a stockholder, so to speak, in a nonprofit.

Now, what that means mathematically is, is if there is a profit made, and there has to be for them to stay open, open, they turn it back to customer services, reduced interest rates on loans, increased interest rates on savings accounts, and other free things like cool free things they do for Ramsey people all the time at Fairwinds.

So I've been a big fan of credit unions for a long time.

Fairwinds came along.

We started working with them about a year ago, and they're absolutely incredible.

I love credit unions.

You need to do business with a financial institution that actually cares about you, and this is why we endorse Fairwinds.

And now they've stepped up their partnership, and they are are our new studio sponsor here for the Ramsey Chef.

They've been in business for over 75 years.

They served hundreds of thousands of members worldwide.

They partner with more than 5,000 credit union locations, other credit unions around the country in a partnership.

So you can bank wherever you live.

So it's totally click and mortar.

33,000 fee-free ATMs.

Deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to $250,000.

So you got the same level of insurance that you would would with a stupid bank.

And they've created a combined checking.

This is the important part and high-yield savings account bundle for Ramsey fans.

The high-yield savings account is competitive with national digital banks, built for people who want to stay out of debt, and a good place to park and get that old emergency fund kicking, right?

No credit traps.

It's built to align with the baby steps.

Interest rate isn't some bait and switch thing.

It's designed to support Ramsey fans as you get your emergency fund and you save with intention.

And now, along with the studio sponsorship, we're introducing something very cool.

The new Ramsey debit card with fair wins.

And this is cool because right on the front of the card, it says, debt is normal, be weird.

So as soon as you're checking out, you're going to get a response from the waiter.

You're like, what?

You're going to get a response from the girl at Target trying to sell you a credit card.

She's going to be saying, what?

I can't do it.

I got this.

That's, you know, that's normal.

I don't want to be normal.

I'm weird.

Look at my card.

Can I show you my card?

Can I show you my card?

I mean, it just changes everything, right?

It's not a payment method.

It's a daily reminder that you're working the baby steps and that you're not going to go in debt.

And it is a Ramsey debit card at Fairwinds.

So you can see why these guys are not typical.

They're aligned with us.

We're excited for you to have them

for you to check them out.

And you guys haven't been around us for a while because we've added millions of people in the past six months or a year.

You guys don't know how hard we are on endorsements.

We don't endorse everything.

We endorse stuff we believe in.

And I've got a rule.

I started the rule.

I endorsed a couple of things in my early days of talk radio because I was broke and desperate that I wished I wasn't.

And I was ashamed.

And one of my friends came up and said, would you do that?

And I said, no, John, I wouldn't do that.

You're my friend.

But I did put it on the radio.

I went, well, that's just, that's just lying.

That's just insincere.

That's hypocritical.

So I got it so embarrassed.

I said, I'm never doing it again.

And our rule for our sales team has always been no endorsements of any kind for any of our Ramsey personalities unless we're willing to send our mama there, our best friend there.

And would I tell you to go over there?

And if not, if we can't feel that good about it, we don't need the money.

We got plenty of money.

We're stacking money around here.

It's not a problem.

Okay, profits are not an issue at Ramsey, all right?

So we don't need the money.

So we're very, very selective and very careful.

Can you imagine how hard we are to work with if you're in the banking sector?

I mean, just saying it pisses me off, right?

And so can you imagine the poor people at Fairwinds, what they have been through?

And they're wonderful people, but they kept going, well, you don't want our money?

No,

we're going to just let this, we're going to make sure everything's okay first.

And you know what?

They've been wonderful.

They're incredible folks.

They do have a great track record and they got great hearts.

We've gotten to know the executive team there.

They do a great job.

And so we're really excited.

Easy to join fairwinds.org slash Ramsey.

That's where you go.

Fairwinds.org, nonprofit.org slash Ramsey.

That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey.

And I'm super pumped that we now have a dead as normal be weird Ramsey debit card out there in the wild.

This is cool, John.

It's very cool.

It's going to be the new,

it's like the alternative to the black card, right?

That was like, ooh, now when somebody whips out the Be Weird card.

Yeah, it's like the polar opposite end.

Exactly.

Yeah, like I didn't pay $75,000 for this.

That's right.

I didn't pay $7,500 for this.

And how cool would it be?

How cool would it be if there was a movement across the country when people put their

Ramsey debit card, their debt is normal, be weird.

I'm getting out of debit card.

I'm getting out of debt is what this said.

But they also knew, oh, these are the most generous folks out there.

They're going to tip us well, too.

We know these men and women.

They're a different character.

You know what?

We need to just make that an assignment.

How cool would that be?

Do not get a Ramsey debit card if you cheap out on waiters.

We don't want you.

No.

If you're not going to load up the waiter with your Ramsey debit card, load them up, baby.

Load up who anybody.

You got to tip heavy if you got this.

So there is a tax on this thing.

There's a tax, but it's a generosity tax, and that's a good muscle to flex.

This is awesome.

I like it, John.

You just invented something right here on the air.

Well,

there we go.

I get one a year.

This is good.

I like that a lot.

But I love the idea of waiters walking back to the back to run the card and then going, ha ha, like showing it to the other staff and being like, I got one.

And they know they're about to get tipped really well.

That's cool.

I like that a lot.

That's very good.

All right.

So, Fair Winds Credit union studios that's us now that's what we're broadcasting from we got it up in here it's it's it's on the wall isn't it somewhere is it on the wall it's right there on the wall there it is right there okay and so that reminds you guys right there that we're here and um we're gonna be saying this over and over and over and over i hope forever

and i hope you guys start getting that ramsey debit card at fair winds and you get those high yield savings accounts for your emergency fund at fair winds and you get the bundle and the free checking and all that stuff at fair winds because you're gonna have a great response from them they they love ramsey Ramsey people, they have been taking care of our folks really well for the last year.

That's why we did this much increased footprint with them.

And that includes the high-tipping Ramsey debit card, according to Dr.

John Deloney.

I like it.

I like it.

Hey, this is how you change your culture.

It's a good adjustment.

It's a good adjustment.

I like right there, live.

Call and audible.

FairwindscreditUnion.org/slash Ramsey.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens.

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You know, we hear it all the time: a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

Yeah, that's right.

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Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.

Life insurance steps in when you die.

Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

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Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey Personality number one best-selling author, is my co-host today.

Maria is in St.

Louis.

Hi, Maria.

How are you?

Hi, Dave.

Good afternoon.

I'm great.

Thank you.

How are you guys?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

That is a great response.

I just wanted to say thank you so much for everything that you do.

I'm a huge fan of your podcast, YouTube channel, show, everything.

I'm very honored to be on today.

Thank you.

My question is,

I have about $100,000 in my 401k.

I'm 30 years old, and I've been wanting to open up a wedding venue out here in Defiance, Missouri, which is beautiful kind of wine country.

I'm wondering if I should take for my 401k

and put some type of equity into this wedding venue dream that I have.

But of course, I do have some lingering debts and just wanted to get your opinion on do I take for my 401k or kind of where do I even begin with this?

So what do you do for a living now?

I am in supply chain for a defense contractor.

So you're making making $100K?

I have a second job.

I work at a bar on the weekends, so I do serve.

So I'm probably about $115.

Okay.

All right.

But your supply chain's $100K?

$105.

$105.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

And good for you.

Thank you.

And

how much debt did you say you have?

So we just bought a house.

Me and my boyfriend bought a house last November for $4.50.

We have the mortgage.

We both have car payments.

What do you owe on your car?

I owe $24,000 and I paid $31,000

to the bank.

So I'm a little upset about the car.

You owe $24,000.

What other debt do you have?

I owe student loans $15,000.

Okay.

All right.

All right.

And, well,

a couple of things come to mind immediately.

One is if you're going to run a wedding chapel, you should act like you believe in your product and you should be married.

Correct.

Hey, we looked at rings.

We have a ring picked out.

Yeah.

Okay.

Just responding to

my fingers.

Just kind of basic stuff.

I've never heard the phrase, that's a great Missouri wine.

What kind of wine do they have in Missouri?

In Defiance, yeah.

You're not wrong.

It's this, they have a bunch of wineries.

It's the big, like everybody's.

But kind of, there's just kind of a little resort area there.

Maybe it's up and covered.

It's beautiful.

Okay.

It's a pretty area and an excuse to drink some wine.

Yeah.

Okay.

Or have a wedding.

Yeah.

Or have a wedding.

Or both.

Yeah.

Okay.

But there's no existing venue that you're trying to purchase.

You would build this.

I would build this, so I would have to buy the land.

I would, of course, have, you know, everything.

It would be starting from scratch.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Well, number one, I would tell you, regardless of what business idea you propose, I would have you get out of debt before you try it.

Okay.

And number two, we coach about 10,000 small businesses through our entree leadership brand.

I do an entree leadership podcast.

It's one of the top podcasts in the small business space.

And

we teach them to not grow their business with debt.

Okay.

To grow it slowly.

So not going to have you borrow on your 401k.

And of course, you know, we're not going to tell you to cash out a 401k and take a 10% penalty plus your tax rate of 30%.

Or, Dave, I'm going to borrow money at 40% interest to open a wedding venue.

No, you're not.

And so we're not doing that either.

So that kind of takes, those kind of things kind of, I start to be a dream killer, but I'm not a dream killer.

What I am is a nightmare killer.

I want to set you up to win

at your dream, not to get to the end of your dream and be one of the 80% of small businesses that fail.

And that number is actually true.

What causes the 80%?

The number one cause of small business failure is called cash flow problems.

Now, cash flow problems mean I'm short on money.

Hello?

And that usually means I'm in debt and I didn't pay my taxes properly.

And the IRS is chasing me down.

So the taxes thing you can work on with quarterly estimates and do your accounting properly.

It's not the end of the world.

And just not just be sophisticated enough to run your business properly.

The debt thing

is you've got to, if nobody wants to get married, the banker doesn't care.

right

if 73 people get married that day the banker doesn't care the banker just doesn't care yeah it's a freaking banker and they will foreclose on your little wedding chapel and turn it into a dog park i mean in a heartbeat they'll do that you know that's true that's why you're laughing oh i yes yes exactly and so what i want to do is if i'm going to run a business and i do run one and we have 14 profit centers meaning 14 mini businesses inside of the ramsey solutions total p ⁇ L.

So I run 14 businesses of sorts.

They're all interconnected, but I run all of those as the CEO of this place, and I've grown it from a card table in my living room.

So what we want to do anytime we're trying something new, which is what you're doing, in an area where it's never yet been done, ooh, risk, which is what we're doing.

Well, the wineries do offer weddings.

But there is no wedding, true wedding venue.

They're more just wineries.

What's the biggest, nicest winery?

Put that name in your head.

Don't say it out loud.

Okay.

Okay.

After John's comment for sure.

Okay.

Yeah, not a Missouri fan.

Okay.

Go on.

I love it.

We like Missouri.

We just never associated it with Napa.

So go over and talk to them

about a joint venture and let them build it.

Wow.

Okay.

I didn't even think about that.

They'll put up the money.

They suck at wedding.

They're good at wine.

I'm excellent at weddings and wedding venues.

You can increase your visits to the winery.

We'll put it right here on property.

And we'll JV it.

And you guys own the building.

You own the property.

And I run it for a percentage of profits for you.

And let's lay out a model.

And let's start that puppy

where you do it at nights and weekends.

And maybe some days off from your logistics.

Don't quit yet.

And let's get $50,000, $60,000 of income, $80,000 of income coming into your pocket before you quit your job okay

we always say pull the boat up close to the dock before you so you can step in rather than make the leap people that make leaps get wet

so get your income from the wedding venue up and let's figure out a way to do this where you it you don't have to burden to carry the burden of all the downside and for that matter these people could start the thing in a really nice high-end tent.

Yeah, you're going to be a good one.

You could.

You could.

Yeah.

And then let's prove, let's concept prove, right?

Let's get social proof for the concept.

And they got $25,000 or $50,000 in the tent before we go build a $100,000 building or $200,000 building.

And we prove out that we're both going to make bank on this.

You're going to get a lot more customers for the winery.

You're also going to make money on the weddings because I'm not taking 100% of the profits.

You got invested in this too.

So we're doing this together.

And do a JV on it.

And let's prove it out.

And go ahead and put in the agreement that someday you can buy them out and you can move it off site.

Okay, so almost like a not a franchise, but basically just no, more like an option to purchase.

Okay.

To go with it later.

Because if it goes gangbusters later, or if they ever went broke, you could own it.

You wouldn't own the real estate, but you'd own the idea.

Right.

And so

let's just kind of eat.

I'm trying to ease into this and limit my risk rather than just take this leap off a cliff and go, I sure to God, hope that water's deep.

I know.

The upfront cost of the wedding venue is what is

a lingering question.

Yeah,

and you can't start.

Yeah,

let's start it with a camping trip and go from there.

I mean, I think it I got to tell you, I think the

tying it to the winery could really help the wedding chapel, and it for sure will help the winery.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, you could start at the winery and then, you know, move it on over to the venue.

Go ahead and option the piece of ground next door and buy it out.

Buy the ground first with some of your profits.

Later, build the chapel.

When you get it built, exercise your option on the business, move it next door.

Okay, so what if, worst-case scenario, what if these guys are like, no, we do perfectly fine.

We're not

going to the next one.

You just missed out.

Your competition is now going to have a wedding venue, and you should have done it.

You screwed up.

And then get on Amazon and order an Elvis costume and pay some high school kid

to stand there next to you.

I'll go ruin my vows in defiance of wine country.

Spinner sign.

What are you, Vegas?

I'm just trying to think of up-and-coming wine country, Dave.

Yeah, Elvis is known for that.

Well, I'm just saying.

I don't, people get

Elvis weddings

in Vegas.

I'm on to.

I'm just telling you.

You're just starting another trend, Dude.

I'm starting another trend.

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Dan's in Seattle.

Hi, Dan.

How are you?

I'm doing good, Dave.

How are you doing?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So, my question for you today is: I'm on baby step two, and I have about $80,000 in debt.

Now, most of my debt is through one bank, and they're offering me settlements at about 35 cents on the dollar.

But I also owe $32,000 to the Department of Treasury, and they just sent me an intent to initiate wage garnishment.

The IRS?

This one?

No, it's through the Department of Treasury.

For what?

So I was in the military.

I was in the Navy for about five years, and I got discharged early for failing a drug test.

And so because of that, they're asking for my re-enlistment bonus that I had signed a contract for back.

Okay, so you got a re-enlistment bonus, and how many months later did you fail the drug test?

It was two years later.

Two years later.

Okay, and the re-enlistment was for how long?

It was a six-year contract.

Okay, so you were one-third of the way through.

So what was your bonus when you re-enlisted?

It was the money they're asking for back.

It was around $32,000.

So they don't prorate it at all.

They want the whole thing.

Huh.

They want the amount that they had already paid out to me.

That wasn't the full amount, but that was what I had received up until the point that I got.

Oh, they were paying it out to you over the six-year period.

Correct.

So it is the pro-rata amount.

Okay.

So overall, had you been there, you would have got $90,000,000 had you been there the whole time?

Roughly, yeah, a little less than that, I think.

Yeah, okay.

All right.

Hmm.

All right.

Have you tried to negotiate a payment plan with them?

Because I'm sure they expect someone that failed a drug test to have $32,000 laying around.

I have not.

So my plan was, because I know you normally say work smallest to largest.

Yeah, but not when you're dealing with the U.S.

freaking government, with the IRS or the U.S.

Department of Treasury.

they have the ability to come take stuff from you that other people don't.

So, yeah, what I would do is get on the phone with them and figure out if you can work a payment plan with them.

And that will use up some of the money you're using to get out of debt on the other side, but it also keeps them from coming and taking your wages, which they can do in a heartbeat.

They don't even have to go to court, they just got to send a notice.

It's like the IRS, they're unbelievably powerful.

Right.

So, yeah, you need to get that thing settled to create a sustainable situation so you can work your way through the rest of it.

Okay.

So, we need to get a payment plan with them.

They'll work a payment plan with you because I don't think they think they're going to get their money.

Right.

I mean, if they let 100 people go in this exact same situation due to failing a drug test, a hundred of them don't have the money.

Okay.

None of you guys are sitting around on $32,000 when this happens to you, right?

I mean, you're other friends in the military that that happened to, right?

Yes, sir.

Not like you're sitting around on piles of money.

You know, it just doesn't, it doesn't work that way.

So, yeah, I

you know I'd work a payment plan with them and then with what I've got left.

So I would imagine they'll settle.

What are you making now?

What do you make?

$85,000 a year before tax.

Good.

What are you doing?

What do you do now?

I am a data center engineer.

Great.

Excellent.

And so keep learning and keep growing and keep that income increasing.

And let's get it all cleared off as fast as possible.

What I would do is call them and say this, hey,

I got let go from the military for a drug test.

I have no money.

You really can't get anything, but I would love to start a payment plan to get this paid back.

What's the least you would put me on?

And put it on the smallest payment possible for now.

That gives you more room to work on the other stuff.

And when the other stuff's gone, then go back and pay them off completely

early.

So, you know, I don't want you to offer them a thousand and they would have taken $500 a month for right now.

Right.

I want them to give you a number.

And no matter what they say, practice this with me, Dan.

I want you to gasp.

No matter what they say, act like you're about passed out and go, You're kidding.

Oh, my.

Oh, no.

Oh, my gosh.

Oh,

can you do any better?

And let them negotiate with themselves for a minute, okay?

You understand the technique?

I do.

It works.

Especially when you're dealing with a government employee on the other end.

And

hey, Dan.

Dan.

You still there, man?

Listen to me.

This will not go away.

Right.

All right.

And And I know the temptation will be like, some buddy of yours is going to have a cool Jeep that he's jacked up.

He's going to give it to you at a quote-unquote great deal.

And someone's going to ask you to get in on Bitcoin or whatever the thing's coming.

None of this is going to go away.

So the faster you figure out how to get this cleared up, I would go scorched earth on my living arrangements until I got the government out of my life.

Yep.

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

Okay.

They are unwavering.

It's not going to go away.

Yeah, they're the hardest of all creditors to deal with.

Right.

Because they're their own boss.

They answer to nobody.

Yeah, they don't have to check with a judge.

It's crazy.

It's like student loans.

They just issue the garnishment.

It's like the IRS.

They just issue the garnishment.

They don't have to go through due process.

It's completely unconstitutional, but it doesn't matter.

They do it anyway.

So, you know, due process is in the Constitution, not when it comes to government debt.

Nope.

They just come take it.

And then they go, oh, you mean we weren't supposed to do that?

We'll get it back then.

Doesn't work.

It's a pain in the butt.

I want to scare you because I want to scare you in knocking this out as fast as you possibly can.

But in the meantime, put it on the smallest possible payment so you got a sustainable situation.

And then work like a crazy man, live scorched earth, stay off the dadgum drugs and attack this stuff, man, and get it out of your life.

Get rid of it so it doesn't come back.

And yeah, for sure.

You've got a great career in front of you.

Don't screw it up.

Bust, bust, bust, bust.

Get those certifications.

Data analyst, man, in an AI world, you are king.

You're going to be king of the heap because you're going to be the one telling AI what to do if you learn how to do your craft.

Believe me, I got them in this building, and I pay them well.

And they're the future.

They are the future.

The children are our future.

Yeah, that's it.

But that's, you know, said AI.

But yeah,

do it, man.

You can do it.

John's right, though.

Don't let up until they're out of your life because this is not

going away.

And if you look up five years from now and you've still got this hanging around because you haven't dealt with it, I hope John's voice is ringing in your ear.

It's not going

away.

People keep,

this is a little bit different situation, but man, I don't know what it's going to take for folks to stop getting into business arrangements with the government.

It just doesn't end.

I mean, it doesn't end well because they answer to nobody.

They just, they're just going to come take your check.

If you get into the student loan world, you are making a deal with the government.

If you don't pay your taxes, if you don't pay your taxes, you're making a deal with the government.

And it's just, it's frustrating.

It is what it is, but man, they win 100% of the time.

And

they got Vegas beat on that.

Oh, and the number, well, at least Vegas.

Vegas just wins most of the time.

Most of the time, that's right.

And the number of folks, the students I worked with over the years, that just think it's going to go away.

It's not a lot.

It just doesn't.

Stuff has a high

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That's right, man.

It will come back.

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Ryan is in Detroit, Michigan.

Hi, Ryan.

How are you?

Good.

How are you guys doing?

Better than we deserve.

What's up?

Okay, so I've been following your baby steps, and they've been working out very well for me.

I'm active duty military and I'm on baby step six.

My wife and I are on baby step six.

And we're just wondering, with us moving every four to five years, would it be wise to put money into the house to pay down the mortgage or to put the money aside in a savings or investment account?

Well, when you move, you're going to sell the house and they're going to give you a check.

Yes.

So put it into the mortgage.

And then someday there won't be a mortgage, and when you sell the house, they're going to give you a check.

And when you buy the house, you're going to give them a check.

Someday there'll be no mortgage, and you move from no mortgage to no mortgage.

All right.

Cool deal.

Yeah.

Forced savings plan.

Now, a couple of guidelines.

Which branch are you in?

Coast Craig.

Okay.

Thank you for your service, by the way.

Yeah.

So you're not moving, but every five years or so, right?

Yeah, we move every four we can possibly extend to five.

Yeah, yeah, because a lot of the Army guys are every two, so Navy as well,

especially earlier in their career.

We work with the military a lot.

Thank you again.

But anyway,

the thing to be sure of is it's not always,

in your case, it's more likely, but it's not always a good idea to buy.

Yeah.

So what you want to be sure of is during your time in the market, is the property going to increase enough in value to bother to own it?

So if you're only there two years and you're in a flat real estate market, you would not buy.

You would rent.

Yeah.

Okay.

You're better off.

You're going to lose money.

And if you're in a flat real estate market, you can't sell it when you get ready to leave.

Now, your postings are largely around non-military base situations.

You're in more of a civilian setting, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like you're not going into one of these huge forts or,

you know, whatever, these huge military communities where lots of people have bought a house and now they've got them on the market because they move every two years.

You don't have that issue.

You're dealing with more direct consumers that are non-military.

So that's going to help you make money on the resale because the market doesn't get glutted.

It doesn't get full.

And so, you know, so for instance, my buddies in the Navy that are in San Diego, they do real well on a house, right?

But if you move out in the middle of a cornfield in Kansas and there's nobody there but other military people, you're going to lose your butt on the house.

Yeah.

So just be careful with that kind of stuff.

Now, again, your situation because unique to the Coast Guard is going to be very different because obviously it's

residing mainly around the coast.

And so, duh.

And so, yeah, that.

puts you in a different thing.

And so

I think in most cases, it's not going to apply to you.

You're going to to make money.

So buying is going to be a good idea.

So the answer to your question just stands, get it paid off as fast as possible.

Be sure when you buy next time you pay cash and pay it off.

If you don't pay it off as soon as possible, and every time just move your equity from place to place to place, and then when you someday land and retire and you land in the place you're going to stay in, you've got a paid-for house.

Yeah, part of me, Dave, would be so tempted

to rent in the least

in the place where, like, had the bare minimum where we could live.

Like, this is good for us for right now.

My friends in the military always say, yeah, but there's a psychological component.

You get moved every few years.

It's important to have tent stakes.

And I get that, but there's a balance, right?

You don't need the Taj Mahal, but you really don't want to be camping either.

Yeah, yeah, there's a balance.

It's hard on mama.

Yeah.

Hard on the spouse's kids.

They need to have a home.

Yeah.

And you're doing this for 20 years.

So you're not Bedouins.

Yeah.

You're just in the military.

So they do live in tents.

The thought of putting five different houses houses on the market over the course of 20 years drives me crazy.

If you're a corporate gypsy, you got the same thing, though.

Yeah, that's true.

If you're in a corporate setting and they move you every so often and you're you're bouncing city to city going up the ladder in corporate America, you got the same exact thing.

But you've got to be able to sell the house because the market you're in, you can't be buying in a dead butt market, some kind of market where there's not any activity, because it's not going to increase in value.

And then you got 273 days on the market.

Right.

Nine months, you're looking at this stupid thing.

And y'all are going to end up renting somewhere else.

Yeah.

Yep.

Because you can't get your house.

Because you can't get in.

You're going to move twice in those foods.

So it just becomes messy.

And I get the psychological, like, if somebody's telling you when to beware, where you're going to live, what you're going to do,

what you got to wear, I get the idea of I have to have one thing that's my own.

It's just being careful about that thing not completely owning you again, right?

Exactly.

I get it, but man, that's tough.

That's tough.

But it also, you know, you can't apply

the TikTok version of culture.

Everybody ought to buy real estate.

No, not really.

Yeah, not really.

There's certain times you don't.

Not a good idea.

Real estate's not good when you're playing a short game.

Short game real estate is stupid.

Yeah.

So

it gets you caught.

It's a problem.

Devin is in Oklahoma City.

Hi, Devin.

How are you?

Hey, Dave, how are you today?

Better than I deserve.

How can we help?

Well, I am a pastor, and I wanted to pick your brain on a possible career move.

I make $40,000 a year, and I was thinking about moving into a different career, either in plumbing or home remodel.

And I just had some concerns about where we're at financially and wanted to see how you would go about doing that.

I mean, plumbing's basically the same job as a pastor, isn't it?

I guess in one area of thinking.

Oh, my gosh.

Wow.

That's an interesting

move.

So you just burn out on pastoring or what?

Yeah, my wife and I, we

coming out of college, we're both 28 years old, and we had several jobs right after the other that were all just really hard.

And,

you know, the old expression, sheep bite.

So

that's just,

we had some hard times.

And so spiritually, we're needing to take a step back.

And I like working with my hands, and one day I want to own my own business.

And so those were the areas I was thinking of.

Yeah.

Well, they do, and that's a shame, but they do.

You're right.

Okay.

Well, the question is, how can you make the conversion without it being some kind of a leap?

Conversion is not the right word.

How can you make the transition without it being some kind of a leap?

Yeah, poor choice.

Yeah, but the

so I mean, like, I don't want you to go make nothing to get to be a plumber.

Let's start as an intern or doing stuff on the weekends or whatever to learn to do that.

I don't want you to start from ground zero with no jobs as home remodel.

Have you done home remodeling?

No, sir.

I would be starting from nothing.

Okay.

All right.

Do you know someone in the business?

I have some ideas of where I could find some people.

I want you to edge in

and go learn the business somewhere before you just open a business.

Yes, sir.

I was thinking of specifically with like plumbing or remodeling starting as just working with someone else first.

And then moving back to the other side.

So if you had someone that hired you to, that you don't know anything about remodeling and you're going to go to work for them, do you have any idea what they would pay you?

No, sir.

In our area in Oklahoma City, I mean, I'm assuming it, you know, making $40,000 a year, it you could probably make that, yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

So I make that shoveling drywall, yeah.

Exactly.

So I wasn't as concerned about that.

My wife and I are, we just finished baby step two.

So as long as you're making the same money as you're making now and you're making it instantaneously, there's no change to your family other than you you shifted what you do every day.

Yes, I think so.

Mathematically, if you make 40,000 as a plumber working for a plumber, or you make 40,000 working for a home remodel person,

and you make 40,000 now, you just changed jobs mathematically.

Okay.

Doesn't affect it at all, agreed.

I agree.

I just wanted to make sure that that was actually, I wasn't just fooling myself and having rose-colored, colored glasses.

Well, rose-colored glasses would be, I don't know anything about remodeling, and I just bought a hammer and I opened a remodeling company.

That's fair.

That would be rose-colored glasses.

That would be a fool.

But I talk to those sometimes.

But you're not it.

And so, no,

you know, so I want you to, if you can make the same money and make your change and then begin to learn a craft

in an effort to say five years from now, I'm going to make the move into my own space, then I'm fine with that.

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welcome back to the ramsey show in the fair winds credit union studio dr john deloney ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today sarah is in Baton Rouge.

Hi, Sarah.

How are you?

Hi, I'm good.

Thank you.

Better than I deserve, right?

Yeah, amen.

How can we help?

So I am a divorced single mom of two boys.

I am their primary caregiver.

And one day I would like to remarry, but I am slated to inherit at least like $5 million of today's value.

Hopefully I won't inherit it for another 20 years.

But but I just wanted to know y'all's thoughts on a prenup if that was something that would be good for my situation or I wanted to know what y'all thought about that in your situation I do recommend it full disclosure when I first started the show I said never get a prenup if you like stuff more than the person don't get married

marriage is hard enough right that was kind of my stance but then after doing about I don't know, two decades of financial coaching and crisis counseling where I found a bunch of weirdos involved,

I changed my stance on prenups.

And the reason I changed it was what I discovered in actual reality out here walking around in the wild is that where there is a dramatic amount of money difference

or just a dramatic amount of money,

the prenup not only helps the actual married couple, but more importantly, it helps the weirdos in their family.

I didn't think about that.

And so, like, you marry a beautiful, wonderful man, and Cousin Eddie shows up and wants to open a pizza parlor with your money.

Like a day after the honeymoon.

Right.

That's the crap that happens.

And then your beautiful, wonderful man just goes, Cousin Eddie, I got a preen up.

I can't say nothing.

And you just look at Cousin Eddie and go, you can have a biscuit.

And then we're going to send you on your way.

And, you know, that you can just, you can deal, because the weirdos in one ring or two rings or three rings out, sometimes it's the parents, sometimes it's the kids, sometimes it's cousin Eddie.

I don't know who it is, but the weirdos were the one.

And then what happens is they drive a wedge between you and your spouse.

Ryan.

Right.

That's what I didn't want to happen.

And the prenup is not to protect you from this wonderful man you meet.

He's probably okay.

That's the goal.

Yeah.

But I mean, that really, you probably got pretty good taste, right?

And so he's probably not the problem.

It It might be, but, you know, but the 5 million versus he's got a normal net worth of, you know, $400,000 or $500,000 or nothing or whatever, and he's just a good dude that works hard and saves his money and pays his bills and whatever.

And, you know, and you guys love Jesus and you're going to church and life is good, right?

Everything's good.

So

y'all will be fine, but this just keeps everybody clear.

But you shouldn't do that on small amounts of money.

Like I had one lady call up and say her boyfriend wanted a prenup for his 1967 Mustang.

And I'm like, hey, don't marry this guy.

He likes cars more than he likes you.

Stupid car?

Really?

No,

that's planning your divorce right there.

That's different.

All right, Sarah, I want to ask Dave a question on your behalf, okay?

Great.

Dave, if you're Sarah and you

somebody sets you up and you roll your eyes and you're like, I'll go, and you have a great time.

You go out again and you go out again.

When would

you sit down and say, hey, I got $5 million in an account?

Would that be something you wait till you're engaged to talk about?

Would that be something because my...

I would not get engaged.

Before they knew, before you

knew way before that.

But I mean, at the same time, you would talk about anything in your account.

Like, you know, let's start talking about money.

Well, you don't do that on the first date.

That'd be weird, you know?

But I mean, once you start talking about using language in your sentences about spending a lot of

building a future together, then you start going, well, that includes, let's talk about your crazy mother.

Yeah.

Let's talk about your, let's talk about, you know, what do you feel about debt?

I can't stand debt.

I did that Dave Ramsey thing.

You know, some people do that on the first date.

That's strange.

But

the,

but yeah, that I think it's strange.

But yeah, I think as you're, as you're getting serious in the relationship, you start talking about the important things.

I want to know exactly where you stand on religion, on money, on in-laws, on kids.

They're going to know about your kids immediately.

And you don't have the $5 million right now anyway.

It's off in the future somewhere.

Yes, sir.

And hypothetically, something could go sideways and you didn't even get it.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

It's, you know, I definitely try to be a good steward of the money that I'm blessed with.

And I know that this is not money that I've earned.

So I don't don't expect it.

And I count on it.

I just, I, you know, and I would just say it has nothing to do with you.

I've just gotten good counsel that says all the people in our lives are, it gives us a boundary with them if we have this done.

Yeah, I think when you start talking about the important things in life, the money would be on the list.

Yeah.

Not because money's important, but because what it represents.

Yeah.

And I don't know.

What do you think?

You're the PhD in counseling.

When should you bring it up?

I think you're right.

I

think I would this is me personally I think I would always be haunted by

did that accelerate our relationship did that get you more excited to marry me which for myself is is my own red flag it'd be a me red flag not a them red flag but um yeah I don't know there's something like I'm a romantic at heart, and there's something cool about my wife getting married and her being like, oh, by the way, when I told you we were well off, like, we're, here's the number.

That sounds awesome.

That's not reality.

No, that's some kind of book.

Fiction book, yeah.

Exactly.

So, yeah, I think you have to put on the table, and I think you have to get through the initial discomfort of maybe him thinking, oh, I wanted to be the macho breadwinner, and suddenly I'm marrying somebody who's a multimillionaire, or vice versa, you putting the discomfort on the table.

I'm nervous to say this out loud because I'm afraid you're going to like me more just because I've got this inherited wealth.

Or it's just going to cause weirdness.

Yeah, it's just going to cause weirdness.

Yeah.

Money does that.

But all relationships have to get through weirdness and awkwardness and just an uncomfortable conversation.

So it's just another one in a long list of uncomfortable conversations anybody getting together is going to have to have.

Yeah.

And constant.

Yeah, it's always going on.

That's right.

So, Sarah, you know, it's interesting.

I tell people when we're just talking about money in general that wealth magnifies

everything,

the good and the bad.

So, like, if someone has a temper and they become wealthy, they become a bully,

crazy.

If someone is compassionate and generous and they become wealthy, they become what we call a philanthropist.

And they're constantly known for their generosity.

That becomes their personal brand.

And so if crazy is in your family,

and all of us have crazy in our family.

If you don't think you have crazy in your family, it's you.

Yeah, so, I mean, everybody's got crazy.

So crazy in your family is magnified.

And so that's what I'm looking at with this 5 million.

It's going to magnify everything.

And it's going to magnify the awkwardness that John is talking about in the dating relationship.

It will.

And you know what?

You just said something important.

I would actually relationally lead with, here's who I am.

I'm a person who tips like crazy.

I'm a person who gives to my church or to charitable organizations.

That's who I am.

I would lead with the identity part early on in a relationship.

Yeah.

As we get to know each other.

I'm a person who doesn't borrow money.

That way, that's right.

I'm a a person who doesn't borrow money.

I believe in saving money.

I believe in living on a plan.

That's right.

And I plan my budget.

I plan my

money I got.

Yeah.

I like that.

And then later on.

And oh, by the way, my mom and dad are rich.

Yeah.

And they left me a bunch of money when they died.

So there you go.

That's way down the list, though.

Yeah.

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Not in all states.

Today's question comes from Abigail in Indiana.

Abigail writes, My husband passed away very recently.

Ah, sorry.

I have a problem with family and friends who have started asking for personal items that belong to him.

Some of the requests are for sentimental reasons, but there are also requests for things that are of monetary value.

I'm still grieving and not ready to make these decisions right now.

What is the morally right thing to do?

I'm still grieving, and I'm not ready to make these decisions right now.

That's right.

No.

Or I'm not doing anything.

I'm not giving away anything for nine months, and I'll get back to you.

Yeah, I'll tell you what, I'm keeping a little list, and I'll put you down on the list.

But right now, I'm just crying.

You have no moral obligation.

None.

Whatsoever.

Zero.

To start handing out stuff.

Especially,

it just feels like volcanoes

circling.

It does feel gross.

Like, yeah.

And I went, grandma's China.

Yeah.

Oh, brother.

It's like a bad Hallmark movie.

And by the way,

if somebody says, oh, I was really hoping to get that, though, then they've crossed their name off the list.

The friend that says, hey, we used to go hunting together and he had this awesome rifle.

Can I buy it?

I would love to buy it from you.

When you're ready.

Yeah, yeah.

And you say, hey, in nine months, I'm not ready.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I'm going to make sure all of his other friends know.

That's somebody put a star by on their name.

But if someone's like, oh, really?

I deserve this.

Yeah.

You deserve to be able to do it.

He promised me I could check.

Never when you were out.

Yeah, man.

Gross, gross, gross.

It's hard.

People, this is gross.

And she says, passed away very recently.

Yeah, this isn't like a year.

It sounds like a month ago or a couple weeks ago.

It's like three days later.

Here they come want my casserole dish back and i want grandma's bible yeah i mean come on wow

hmm yeah it's um

so the the the other side of this is funny sharon's dad is 96 getting ready to be 97 in perfect health and perfect mind he's a wonderful man and he is so funny He's like, everybody gets you a sticky note and puts something on it.

That's how my grandparents were.

So you go through the whole house.

There's freaking sticky notes on everything.

That's how my grandparents were.

It's all.

It's like, oh, somebody got to that one before us.

You had to do it underneath it.

You had to do it underneath.

Oh, it's on the back of the picture.

So you had to look and see what's going on.

On the back of the whole thing.

It's so funny.

It's like, yeah.

But hey, I actually like that.

It's first come, first serve.

You want to come visit me?

Well, and he's doing it.

He's initiating it while he's alive.

That's right.

That's like his will.

That's what my grandparents are.

That's a part of his will.

Yeah.

It's just, it's funny.

Yeah.

Like, y'all want something.

Here's some sticky notes.

It keeps the fighting down like that.

I'm trying to just imagine.

Promise me.

Imagine the conversation of me calling even one of my closest friends' spout wife.

The chances of me asking for something is zero.

I just can't imagine that.

I'm trying to figure out how to have that conversation.

How would you?

The only conversation is what I can give.

How?

What can I do?

How can I?

By the way, he had that shirt I really wanted.

Can I have a sofa?

A fish and tackle.

Jeez,

holly.

What are you people?

It's unbelievable.

Gosh.

Tiffany is in Cleveland, Ohio.

Hey, Tiffany, what's up?

Hi, Dave.

Hi, Dr.

John.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

This is exciting.

Exciting to have you.

How can we help?

Great.

Yeah, so my husband and I, along with my mom, we are planning to move to Florida to be closer to both of our families.

We unfortunately lost my dad back in December, and so this move was put us close to my brother and his family.

And then my husband's family just moved down to the same area back last fall.

Wow.

My question is,

my husband and I, we we are both 43.

We are in baby step two.

We've been tackling our debt very hard this year.

We've already paid off about $25,000.

We have $65,000 consumer debt left.

So my question is, when we get ready to make this move, because we do have two houses that we have to get cleaned out and sold, when we are ready to start.

Stop, stop, stop, stop.

We don't have anything.

Do you own a house?

No,

we have a mortgage on our home.

I mean, you have a house.

You and your your husband have a house.

And then your mother-in-law has a house.

My mom has a house.

Okay.

So there's not,

we don't have two houses.

She has a house and you have a house.

Yes, correct.

Okay.

All right.

But you're going to help her with the clean out and all that good stuff.

You're going to help her.

But this is not, we're not turning this into a commune, okay.

No, no, no, no, no.

They were married for 55 years.

They have 55 years worth of stuff.

Oh, God, you hoarders.

Yes.

I got you.

Okay.

On an acre of property in four buildings.

So we have some work to do there.

But that's just helping her move.

Okay.

And then you got to sell your house.

So what is your house worth?

So our house, right now we're anywhere between $100 to $120.

We're expecting to make us a profit on the sale of our home.

Oh, so it pays off the $65 and you've got some money to move with.

Correct.

This was my question is, do you suggest that when we are ready to

get a little closer to this, which the goal is to start working on this in January, that we pause our baby steps and stack up cash, knowing that there is going to be expenses to move from.

They're going to give you a check when you sell your house.

Right.

You don't need a stack of cash.

You're getting $100,000.

Okay.

Right.

I wasn't sure.

Yes, we're going to get the money.

I just didn't know to be proactive to have a little bit of saved up

before we do that.

So I wasn't sure.

Here's the issue.

Okay.

Let's pretend that

you save up $10,000.

Okay.

Yes.

And so you don't pay ten thousand dollars worth of debt

when you sell your house that's ten thousand dollars more of debt you have to pay

correct so you didn't really gain anything

no so it's like six of one half of the other and that's what i wasn't sure on like i i was i think just looking crunching the numbers too much and just driving myself nuts to that so what i would do is is just make the move 100 debt-free and have an emergency fund if you have enough left after that to put a down payment on a house in florida buy.

If not, you may have to rent for a couple of years to save up your down payment in Florida, but you're debt-free with an emergency fund.

Well, here's the other part of the question: With the sale of my mom's home,

her and my dad did everything correctly.

She is debt-free.

She has already discussed in gifting us on the sale of her home, gifting us

money for the down payment for the house in Florida.

Is she going to be living with you?

Yes.

Oh,

complicated.

Oh, yeah, a little complicated.

Yeah, no,

do you have siblings?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's why they're moving.

We do.

Yes.

I have an older brother.

This is something we have discussed.

This process of moving was something that my dad had very much wanted to do.

That was the goal.

Unfortunately, his health just didn't hold.

I would just say

it's all in writing, just to make sure everybody's clear.

Yes.

Yeah, we're getting it as part of the picture.

If you take a portion of, is it just you and your brother?

Yes, it's just my brother and I.

Okay, so if you take a, let's pretend that there's a half million dollars of inheritance when your mom passes away.

Okay, your brother's going to get $250, you're going to get $250, but she's going to give you of that $250, $150 up front before she dies.

Correct.

Then that uncomplicates it greatly.

If she only has $150 and it all goes in your house, and your brother gets screwed unless you resell your house when she dies, this is not a a good plan.

No, that one,

we've looked at it with the financial advisor she has.

There is enough right now without factoring in any interest that grows on any of her IRAs and all that.

Your brother would be easily getting half without touching your house you live in.

Okay.

Correct.

That makes it a lot cleaner.

Then all she's doing is advancing you part of your inheritance and she's going to live with you in return for the advance.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's cool.

That's cool.

Yeah.

But that gives you a real incentive to get everything cleaned up and shiny.

And let's get it all sold off.

Let's load up the truck and head to Beverly.

Hills, that is.

Swimming pools, movie stars.

Black gold.

This is T.

Gotta be old to know what that is.

You got to be really old right there.

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Eladio and Carla are with us.

Hey guys, how are you?

Hi, Dave.

Hi, John.

Welcome.

Good to have you guys.

Where do you live?

We're in Los Angeles, California.

Ah, fun.

Well, welcome to nashville good to have you and here to do a debt-free scream all the way across the nation so how much debt did you two pay off with your advice and with god's grace we paid off three hundred and twelve thousand dollars wow

how long did this take five years five years yeah very cool wow it's amazing and you're waiting y'all are impressive your range of income during that five years it was 100 to 130 000.

cool and what do you guys do for a living?

I work for UPS and also in Russon.

And I'm a physical therapist assistant.

Very cool.

What kind of debt was this?

$312,000.

It's a mortgage.

The mortgage!

You have a house in Los Angeles that's paid for.

Yes.

Y'all really are weirdos.

I love it.

Amazing guys.

Great weirdos.

Great God.

Awesome.

What's the house worth?

About $6,000.

$600,000.

Yeah.

Amazing.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Thank you.

You guys, you know that in California it's illegal to own your house.

I know.

Yes, we've heard.

Oh my gosh.

This is great, y'all.

I'm so proud of you.

Thank you.

What in the world?

This is so cool.

And how old are you two?

We're 39.

39 years old.

We have paid for a $600,000 house in Los Angeles, California.

How much in your nest egg, in your savings, your retirement savings?

We haven't checked.

It's like autopilot.

We forgot about it.

About.

We'll have to check.

About.

We're not millionaires yet.

Not quite.

Not 400K then.

No.

Okay, because there's 400K with a 600K house to be babys millionaire.

All right.

But you're on your way at 40 years old.

You're almost there.

And you're saving like crazy.

You're working two jobs.

You're doing everything.

Very neat.

And you paid off your home in five years.

It's worth $600K.

What in the world?

Tell me how y'all got started on all this Ramsey stuff.

So how we got started, seven years ago,

it was, you know, a coworker that introduced us to the baby steps.

His name's David, and he got me started on

the financial piece online, the self-study.

And so I tried to get my husband on board.

He resisted.

You know, he wanted to do his own thing.

But what finally did it was the biblical principles that you teach.

So, yeah, you know,

God's word never returned empty, and the word just started to transform and edify our lives.

And I was just starting my Christian walk at that time.

So

yeah, it was really the word.

What church do you all attend in Los Angeles?

Yeah, it's in Pomona, and it's called Trios de Auviva.

Trios de Aguaviva, Spanish service.

Spanish church.

Okay.

All right.

And so obviously you're a Hispanic community.

What country were you from?

I'm from Mexico.

Mexico.

Awesome.

Very cool.

What part?

Guerrero.

Oh, yeah.

Fun.

Okay, cool.

Cool.

Good to see you.

So what was it like your wife comes in and says, hey, I went to church.

You can't buy anything.

No clothes, cars.

We're getting out of debt.

It's kind of hard to do that.

But she made it.

Yeah.

What do you do for UPS?

Oh, I work

on the airport.

Okay.

So just moving the

cans to the airplane.

And then what do you do in the restaurant?

Like,

help to the servers.

Okay.

All right.

Okay, so here's what's important.

And you're a physician.

A physical therapist assistant.

Yeah, a tech assistant.

PP.

So y'all, neither of y'all are working executive jobs.

No.

You're not working upper management jobs.

Y'all are out there grinding it out.

Yeah.

And we started from nothing, like poverty.

Like, we were living off of his income as a cook before

he moved up.

And now, yeah.

So you're throwing boxes and helping servers.

Yeah.

And you're

dealing with egos, right?

No, yeah.

I mean, you're helping clients.

Y'all are grinding it out.

Yeah, he's had two jobs forever.

But you know, as well as anybody, the story is you cannot get ahead.

You can't do it.

It's impossible.

You can't do it.

Nobody can do it unless you are one of these special unicorn jobs.

And you guys just did it.

Anyway, hold my beer.

Here we go.

I mean, this is incredible.

Glory to God.

Amen.

Way to go, God.

Hey, God.

I'm speechless right now.

It's so cool.

What y'all have accomplished is so amazing.

Yeah, you're heroes.

Thank you.

You've changed your whole family tree.

And

you're proof that the great American dream is alive and well.

Yes, it is.

Very proud of y'all.

Very proud of you.

Anything is possible with Christ.

Amen.

Well, and two jobs for five years also.

Grinding and grinding and grinding.

The diligent prosper, Proverbs says.

So here we go.

Excellence in the ordinary over time.

That's diligence.

Yeah, way to go, y'all.

Way to go.

Impressive.

All right.

So when one of your friends comes up and he's making fun of you, when you're moving some boxes around at the airport about you bringing your sandwich so you can get out of debt, right?

And he goes, oh, you can't do that.

You say, yeah, you can.

All you got to do is, what do you tell him the main thing you got to do to get out of debt?

Well, just don't spend anything.

If you you don't need it, you don't have to spend

money.

Would you please run for Congress?

Please.

Please.

Please, we need you desperately, Helio.

We need you.

If you don't need it, just don't buy it.

Ta-da.

In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil, but a foolish man devours all he has.

Wise people save money.

You got it, man.

You're a wise man.

Yeah, you're a wise woman.

What's the one thing that

you wish you could have bought?

Maybe

a truck before.

He still doesn't have it, but he's been wanting a truck.

Now we can save up and get one pretty quick, huh?

No house payments.

We had to cut things.

Do what?

We had to cut a lot of things.

Yeah, now you...

What's the first big thing now that you don't have a house payment?

What's the thing you're going to go buy right now?

We're just going to do a couple house projects, pay cash for that, and travel a little bit more.

Okay, good.

Good.

Breathe a little.

Yeah.

Because you've been getting it.

Yeah, you've been shoveling hard.

Yeah.

So, way to go, you two.

I'm very proud of you.

You're heroes.

You're amazing.

Those two beautiful children there have had their whole lives changed and your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren's lives have been changed because of you paying a price to win.

You're amazing.

Very cool.

All right, bring them up and introduce them.

I want to meet them.

What are their names and ages?

Amy, she's 10.

And this is Kate.

She's 7.

Oh, they're beautiful.

All right.

Very cool.

Very cool.

I think they're daddy's girls.

I'm about to say something.

When you watch the ⁇ if you go back and watch this YouTube, watching a dad smile that big as he watches his daughters is one of my favorite things in the whole wide world.

Seeing a dad so proud of his two beautiful daughters, amazing.

Man, you guys are just

being with us during our struggles and

living this experience with us.

Yeah, they'll remember.

They'll remember even being here and doing that weird debt-free scream thing with that weird hillbilly guy in Tennessee.

Yeah.

But that marked the time.

This is the time.

Your whole thing has changed now.

It's all changed.

And you did it.

Very, very good.

Ready for the sandwich generation.

Amen.

Amen.

Well, there's that,

but we can put some meat on the sandwich.

I'm just saying.

All right.

Very good.

All right.

Eladio, Carla, Amy, and Kate from Los Angeles.

$600,000 house is paid for, $312,000 in debt paid off in five years, working at UPS and as a cook in a restaurant, and she is a

physical therapist assistant or PT.

PTA.

PTA.

Okay, perfect.

Yeah, cool.

Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Ready?

Three, two, one.

Wait,

free!

Yes!

It never gets old.

I've been doing this 30 years and I've never ceased to get choked up.

Especially when somebody that works that stinking hard to make this happen.

Alan Gotten.

That's incredible.

Absolutely incredible.

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Having the right coverage as opposed to too little or too much, and not getting junk coverage and all that stuff, skimping on insurance or buying stupid insurance, these things will kill you.

They'll mess up your math big time.

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Amy is in Philadelphia.

Hi, Amy.

How are you?

I'm good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Great.

I have a question.

I have a rental property and I've had a tenant who's been in there for three years.

And she just lost her job.

And she wasn't able to pay August rent.

And I'm trying to follow up with September rent.

And I want to be, you know, aware of her situation, but I also just wanted to see maybe how you would handle

not getting paid her portion of the rent and what I can do to work with her.

Her portion of the rent?

Yeah, so there's three tenants

and

there's three tenants and I just charge a monthly fee.

However, they pay for it, they pay for it.

So they just split it up in three ways is how they've been paying for it.

So the other two are paying their rent, but the other one,

you know, she lost her job.

Do you have a lease with the three of them in total or a lease with each individual?

Three of them in total.

Okay, so the only way you evict is all of them.

Correct.

And the other

people are sitting there thinking they're current?

I think so.

Because they think they paid their part and they think you're okay.

Yeah, I talked to her and see if she wanted to bring the other, like if I should bring the other tenants into it.

Oh, definitely.

They're on the lease.

They're going to get evicted with her.

Right.

Yeah, so they needed to have already been in the loop, like as immediately as soon as you were.

So, okay, guys, here's the thing.

The three of you have together told me you're going to pay me X number of dollars.

You chose to split it up three ways.

Okay?

So, you are behind on your rent group

because of her losing her job.

Now,

do you guys want to come together and cover her until she gets a job?

Or how are we going to work this out?

Right.

You need to sit down with the three of them.

Are you near the property physically?

I'm not.

I'm about two hours away.

Okay, then get a phone call with all three of them on the phone and say, here's what's going on.

I probably should have brought you into the loop a little bit sooner because you probably feel like you're current and you're not.

Okay.

So now, then from that position, once we've gotten clarity on where we all stand, that either we all three pay all the rent or we all three can't stay.

Long term, that's our solution.

Now, then from that point, everybody's on the same page, everybody can talk, and then you can decide how much mercy and grace you want to dole out.

Okay.

You've already doled out a month of one-third.

Right.

Okay, and you're getting ready to dole out another month of one-third,

today.

Correct.

Right?

So this is this.

How long are you going to go along with this before she goes and gets a job doing DoorDash and pays her dad gum rent?

Yeah.

I guess I don't know that.

You need to know.

You're going to get taken advantage of if you don't know.

I don't care how much generosity or mercy you want to extend.

It doesn't bother me a bit because I do the same thing.

We had a tenant that that had cancer and we didn't charge them rent for four months.

But we said at the outset when the chemo starts, we're going to give you four months and let's see how this goes.

You've been a good tenant for three years.

We're just going to forgive the rent.

We're not going to charge you.

You've got enough to deal with.

I don't owe any money on the house.

You can live here free for four months.

And after four months, we're going to revisit in the third month before

we decide how long, but we're not going to do this for eight years while you go through chemo.

Right.

I guess like it would say for me would probably be three months because I do have the security deposit, which would cover like her third, like if she didn't pay for three months.

Yeah.

So, you know, it might sound like, here's what I want to do.

The first thing I want to do is shock them,

stick them with a cattle prod, all right?

And get everybody on the same page where they're going, oh, no, oh, crap, right?

And we go, okay, wait a minute.

We are all getting ready to have to move because June doesn't have a job, right?

Or whatever her name is, right?

And so we got to figure this out together.

We have a problem, not June.

All right.

And not Amy.

Amy doesn't have a problem.

Amy's getting ready to get her house back.

So

now, now, based on that, guys, here's what I'm willing to do.

You guys get together and figure out a way to cover September and October between June working part-time jobs while she's looking for a full-time job and you two chipping in.

And I'll forgive her portion for August.

Okay.

Or something like that.

You can offer a gift, but only in context of a limited arrangement.

Does that make sense to you?

Yeah, it does.

It does.

Because

I've already gone without in August, so

I don't know.

Yeah, and you're probably going to go without in September unless you get on the phone today.

But

you guys can catch me up a little bit later in September, But the three of you, between a part-time job and the two of you catching on to what's going on here, need to come up with September's rent.

And you two go ahead and send me your two-thirds.

We've got to come up with June's third.

And then y'all figure out between now and October how to do it, and y'all get current and stay current.

And in return, I'll forgive one-third of this just to try to help y'all make the corner.

But she needs to go get a job.

Listen, there's not a program where she stays free anywhere.

Homeless shelter.

Right.

But that's it.

And Amy, her roommates, her friends, are going to be an infinitely more influential voice in her life than yours.

You have an on-off switch.

You have an either-or switch.

They can sit down with her and say, hey, we love you.

We're going to help you with your resume.

We're going to call our friends.

We'll see if we can get you a job here.

But if you're looking to be graceful for life change, they're going to be closer to that.

You just have a big hammer.

And you can be kind and gentle, but firm.

Exactly.

I love that.

Okay.

And you're not being firm right now.

You've been very vague and unclear.

Gotcha.

Because right now they think they're okay, and that's not fair to them.

The two that paid their rent, they think everything's cool.

Right.

And the way you've got this lease structure, it ain't cool.

They're in jeopardy too.

Right.

So

it's all, it's not, again, we're not trying to be mean, but first thing I want to do is throw cold water and everybody gets awake.

And now we've turned the lights on in the room and now that the lights are on in the room everybody can talk and we go okay now how can we all work together to solve this in a gentle and kind compassionate way but a very effective business like way at the same time and so we're going to solve the problem we're going to solve for the problem and um and and then you're going to put some of it on them you're going to help a little i don't know if you give up august or not that was a suggestion of mine it's not a mandatory thing you're not a horrible person if you don't you're not a horrible person if you give up her third for august and september i don't care.

But I do care for a lack of clarity.

You're going to get yourself in a bind,

and you're not being fair to them.

And I do care the lack of clarity also on no limitations.

There has to be an end to this because there's no place, if you got cancer or you don't have a job, there's no place that you live for free ultimately.

I mean, we can be kind for, but this is not forever.

This is not an infinite spectrum.

There has to be at some point there's an end to it.

And that's where

people remember the story 25 years later when they don't put limits on stuff.

That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey Personality Number One best-selling author, is my co-host.

Samantha is in California.

Hi Samantha, how are you?

Hi there.

Thanks for taking my call.

I'm good.

Sure.

What's up?

How can we help?

So I have listened to you and followed your plan for years.

We're currently on baby step six.

I'm employed and I also co-own a business with my husband.

Unfortunately, we're probably getting divorced due to infidelity on his side.

And I will receive a substantial settlement after the division of our assets.

With the divorce money, I'll be paying off the rest of the mortgage that I'll be debt-free.

My question is, with the remaining money, should I keep my lifestyle the same so that it doesn't change much for my three young kids and me?

Or should I save it and invest it for the future and just live off of my income?

Okay, so one of the things that's being divested is your half of the business that you run together.

Correct, yes.

But you're still going to be working there?

No, so he would need to buy me out of the business.

Okay, so what will you be doing for a living then?

So I am a nurse, so I have a good income from that.

Oh, so you currently are nursing and working in the business?

Yes.

Oh, okay.

I misunderstood.

All right.

I'm back with you now.

And so the

okay, so what do you make as a nurse?

So I make about $90,000 a year gross.

Good.

That's excellent.

It's a great career, by the way.

You get to pick and choose what you want to do when you want to do it and make a lot of money.

And you can live on that, I assume, with a paid-for house.

Yes, yeah.

I've run through the finances and we would be fine.

Okay.

And how old are your babies?

They are five, six, and seven.

Okay.

And if you can live on $90,000 in a paid-for house, that is not the lifestyle that the five-year-old is accustomed to?

So they go to a private Christian school.

They're in all kinds of sports.

We travel a lot.

And so it's just, it would be cutting back on some things.

It would just be like a little bit tighter

for what they're used to.

Who's paying for the Christian?

You're all splitting the Christian school after the divorce?

That's a good question.

He doesn't love the idea that they're there, so it would probably fall on me.

He would rather them be at a public.

Well, you haven't negotiated the settlement yet.

I don't care what he wants.

He decided he wanted somebody else, and that takes a lot of the care what he wants out of the whole thing.

So I don't give a crap what he wants.

Once he decides not to behave, my care for him has gone away.

So the

all right.

So what do you guys

make now?

What's your current household income?

It's hard with a business.

I've run the numbers for the actual business valuation, and it's about $1.7 million.

The valuation, but I mean, what's your income?

Correct.

I'm making a couple of hundred a year, and then you're making $90 a year.

Yeah,

but he's going to be paying child support, correct?

Of course.

Yes.

Yeah.

And substantial.

in California with a $250,000 income.

And what is the lump sum you're getting?

How much money?

What I've calculated out to be would be

like after paying off the house and keeping the equity in the house, because I'm assuming I'm going to hopefully be able to stay in the house, I would get around $650,000.

Okay, so if we pretend like that doesn't exist and we count child support and you live on $90,000, We deal with the Christian school and the divorce decree, he pays half and you pay half,

I think you can trim some of the travel sports back and a little bit of the ultra-luxury travel back and get your life in a sustainable situation on $100,000 a year.

That's what I would do.

I would not touch the $650,000.

I'd pay off the house, and then you ought to be able to live on $90,000, even in California.

And believe me, the ones that are going to be more impacted by the lifestyle cut than anyone is you, and they're going to take their cues from you.

They're five.

They don't, they really don't.

Like, oh, you mean we don't get to fly private?

You know, that doesn't come up with a five-year-old.

Right.

Yeah.

Here's two things I want you to be one thing to be careful of and one thing to be super cognizant of, okay?

The first thing is this.

You have calculated on the back of a napkin, probably

anxiously typing away at Excel sheets or however you're dealing with the stress of all of this.

Whatever number you've come up with

will probably not be the final number.

Great.

And the problem with that is if you have imagined that you're going to get a check for $1.2 million, pay off the $600,000 remaining on the house and put $650,000, if you get a check for a million dollars, you're going to feel like he stole 200 grand from you.

Your kids will feel it.

You'll feel it.

The whole thing will go south.

And so I want you to open, be very open-handed with the imaginary money you're playing with right now because they're going to get three different

evaluations of this business that might range all over the place and a divorce

court or a mediator might tell you to take the average.

Who knows how this rolls out?

And so it's holding it very open-handed.

You're entering into a very messy, heartbreaking situation.

Okay.

And I get on your side trying to control every variable because some guy just blew your life up.

I get that impulse.

And you want to take care of your kids.

Mama Bear's coming out.

I get all that.

But just hold the math part very loosely.

Not because I want you to be weak in the negotiation.

Not at all.

Be firm and strong.

But I want you to take everything

in the negotiation.

That's not the point.

Matter of fact, I'd be okay if you got 1.5 when you come out of this thing.

So it suits me fine.

He chose.

It's just an expensive decision what he made.

And so

because a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction.

An adversarial business transaction.

Yeah, not a win-win business transaction, but adversarial.

Yeah, and so child support, lump sums for businesses, alimony, all of those things are on the table until they're not on the table and you agree to whatever you agree to in the settlement.

But we start with, I'm holding a winning hand and you screwed up.

That's where we start.

And so,

and then we, you know, then we decide which cards we want to play, which chips we want to move to the center, those kinds of things, to John's point.

But don't get all dialed in on a certain number and then only to find out that you missed one of your calculations.

Well, he has hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt you don't know about, and it's going to, who knows what the what plays out when people start opening up all their bank accounts and text messages, et cetera.

Here's the other thing I want you to be very careful of:

people

like to say things like, I don't want my kids' lives to change.

And you need to exhale that every part of their life is different now.

And so

fully owning their sports is going to be different, their Saturday mornings are going to be different because now you're going to be working full-time.

And so your ability to just hop in a car and go on a trip or to do this sport or that sport or whatever, everything's different now.

And so trying to hang on to their life as it is and duct tape all this other stuff to it creates an angst in that house that those kids, it will just permeate their bodies.

So exhaling and saying, the life we had is over.

What life do we want to build with my current salary, with the settlement, with our house, or selling the house, whatever?

We're solving for peace.

Build something new and solve for peace.

Don't solve for trying to keep everything exactly the same as it was.

Because they know it's not the same.

It's not the same.

Because it's not the same.

What's up, guys?

George Camel here.

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That's fpu.com slash lead.

Buying or selling a home is a big deal.

You definitely want an expert, someone who really does it, not just got their license.

Your Aunt Sally's never sold a house, but she got a license.

I don't want her in my corner.

I want an expert in my corner.

The Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find a high-octane, high-protein top agent in your area that you can trust to help you make your home a blessing, not a burden.

To find a local Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Pro for free, go to ramseysolutions.com slash agent or just click the description in the show notes.

Shannon's in Iowa.

Hi, Shannon.

How are you?

Hi, Dave and John.

Thank you so much for taking my call today.

It's truly an honor to talk to both of you.

You too.

What's up?

Gee, I am actually hoping that you guys could provide a little bit of reassurance and maybe just be that good sounding board for my husband and I.

Just to give you some context, we are currently in babysitter six thanks to your plans and practices.

So thank you for everything you do.

But I wanted to kind of get your guys' opinion.

So my husband has currently been on a night shift for about 10 years now.

And he currently brings home about 70% of our $220,000 income each year.

The issue that we're running into is he is finally hitting his breaking point.

His busted is back for the last 10 years.

He's just getting burnt out.

We have four small kids at home.

And he's just, you know, they're getting away from it.

What does he make if he goes to day shift?

Well, I'm sorry.

What does he make?

He makes $150,000 now.

What's he make if he goes to day shift?

So it'd be dramatically cut.

So we're looking at almost 50% in decrease.

So it'd be about $80,000.

Okay.

And you make

$70,000.

Yep.

Yep, around there.

Okay, so you would live on $150 instead of $220, and you're in baby step six.

Correct.

How much is your house payment?

It is $2,100.

Well, I don't know why you couldn't do that in Iowa.

Exactly.

So just to give some context, I ran some numbers, and that is,

you know,

in every dollar, that's still putting away $1,400 for extra payment because we're aggressively trying to get out of baby step six.

Yeah, what do you owe on your home?

You know, $292.

And it's valued at about $200.

It's going to be a while.

Gonna be a while.

Yeah.

All right.

Yep.

That's okay.

How old are you guys?

So my husband is 38.

I'm 35.

And then that is, we are very blessed with our employer that we do get end-of-year profit sharing.

So last year alone, it was about $25,000, which we had.

And that was not in the $220,000 you gave me?

That is not.

No.

Oh, so that's not your real income.

Your real income is $250.

Okay.

All right.

So,

Shannon, here's the thing.

Here's the thing.

I would go to day shifts as soon as I could if I were you.

Okay.

Under one big condition.

Yes.

Both of us look at the every dollar budget and agree we're going to live on that.

Yep.

So you can't like, oh, surprise.

No, we're not surprised.

We're like grown-ups.

we're looking at the numbers we are willing to live on this number instead of that number

yep and we're that's our that's our Sunday tradition we we look at our every dollar budget every Sunday and we are so in sync and I think this

what's he doing

he is

in the manufacturing world so

He's in a factory, a hot factory.

Okay, so he's on the line.

He's working on the line.

Yes.

Okay.

Very aggressive, but he is

a provider.

That's what he knows to do.

So I think he's just nervous.

And I show him the numbers, but he doesn't believe me.

So I'm like, you know what?

I'm going to call Dave and John.

Hey, and they're going to show you that.

This one's not about numbers.

No.

This is about worth and purpose.

Yep.

And

putting away the spreadsheets and looking across the table and holding both of his hands and looking him in the eye and saying, honey, I'm so proud of you.

We did it.

We did it.

We're here.

You gave up, literally, he's going to die younger for that decade.

He worked nights.

You gave up years off your life so that we could breathe.

And now it's time to breathe.

You're a good man.

He needs that more than he needs a spreadsheet from you right now.

Wonderful, wonderful man.

He needs that.

He needs that.

And by the way, he put in his 10 years.

He's going to go back to day shift for about seven or eight months, and someone's going to take him for management.

He's going to double his salary right back.

He's put in his time.

He's grounded out.

If he wants it, he may not want that.

He's like, I just want to be holding my babies.

I want to be able to be

a management make double.

You can do both.

Yep.

You can do both.

Yep.

So during the same day hours that you'd be on the line day hours.

So there's no shame in that.

So here's, yeah, John's right.

This is not about numbers.

And here's the transition.

When you're in baby steps one through three, you're intense and you work nights and overtime and you live on beans and rice until you get out of debt.

When you're in four, five, and six, where you're saving for retirement, kids, college, and you're paying off your house, you move from intense to intentional.

And that's all I'm doing.

I'm agreeing with you to move to intentional.

Intentional says you can live on 70 grand less, slows down the speed at which we pay off the house, whoop-de-doop-dee.

You're going to get there.

Yep.

And

that's what I'm telling him.

I'm like, we can do it.

I think it should be a lot of fun.

But

I want him to grow up enough to look at the numbers like a grown-up and go, oh, the math does work.

Not my mommy told me it was okay if I come home.

Yep.

But it's different than his mommy.

It's his wife saying, no, no, I want you to come home.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a totally different thing.

And I think it's just getting past that provider.

And David is so proud of him.

Where he's sitting at for 38 and his 401k.

It's not that.

It's not that.

It's not that.

Touchdown.

It's not about money.

It's not about money.

You did it.

You scored.

We did it.

We did it.

Yeah, yeah, we did it.

We got there.

We scored.

And look at the numbers, buddy.

Listen, you can, yeah.

You did it.

We together did it.

You sacrificed to do it.

Look at the numbers.

Be a grown-up.

Go, oh, the numbers say I'm okay.

That's what the numbers say.

My wife says it's okay, but the numbers also, as a grown man, I can look at the numbers and say the numbers say it's okay.

It's not rocket surgery.

No.

And also, after a decade, if you're a night shift guy, that becomes who you are.

It becomes your identity, becomes your gang.

And so he's going to have to shift his identity.

I'm now a guy who works his butt off during the day, and then I go home home and I'm a present dad.

And I get to, you know, tickle fight in the floor.

Hello.

Exactly.

Hello.

Thank you.

Thank you, Lord.

It's a good thing.

Yeah, man.

Y'all worked real hard for this moment.

Definitely needs to do it as soon as possible.

But you got to believe it with the numbers and with the people that love you speaking into your life and speaking blessings over you.

And that's what John's talking about.

So that's the way you do it.

Joe's with us.

Joe's in Detroit.

Hi, Joe.

What's up?

Hi, Dave.

Hi, guys.

I really appreciate your phone call.

Sure.

How can we help?

I have a question about my mortgage.

So I own about $55,000 on my mortgage right now.

And I have

about $70,000 in a high-yield

fund right now.

Cool.

Pay it off.

Today,

pay it off right now.

You have a pay-for-house, homie.

That's so fun.

See, that's what I'm okay.

So my financial advisor, so I'm making about 5.4%

on my

fund right now.

And

my mortgage interest rate is only like 3.25.

Hey, you need a new financial advisor.

Your financial advisor is a moron.

Because he's making 3% on the spread, too.

He's not making anything.

Nobody's making anything.

This is 5%.

Hey, dude, look at this.

$55,000 times 2%

is $1,000.

Woo-hoo!

Whoop-dee-duptee.

You can't buy a biscuit with this guy's advice.

Well, yeah.

So for the last like four or five months, I've been putting an extra $1,000 on my mortgage.

Today, hey,

Pitt.

What are you doing?

Listen, if your house was paid for, would you go get a mortgage at 3% to invest it at 5%?

I hope not.

I know.

Pay it off today.

Fire your guy, man.

Get you a guy that's got a brain.

Yeah, bro.

Pay it off.

Jeez, man.

If you hate it, if you wake up two months from now and you're like, Ramsey, you're nuts.

I hate not

free anybody on my house.

I hate my mortgage.

I miss my mortgage.

You can go down to a local bank.

They'll kick out another one.

They'll hook you up.

They'll fix you up.

They'll hook you up.

30 years of doing this.

I've never had anybody call me and go, Dave Ramsey, I hate you because when I paid off my mortgage, I just was miserable.

I wanted one so bad.

I wanted a mortgage so bad.

Your advice is so horrible.

I went and got another one.

I've never had that one time.

I've had people pissed at me for almost everything, but not that one.

Hey, what's up?

Dr.

John Deloney here.

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In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Jennifer's with us.

Hi, Jennifer.

How are you?

Hi, good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

Welcome.

How much debt have you paid?

$205,000.

Awesome.

Where are you from?

From Milford, Connecticut.

Okay, cool.

And how long did it take you?

All right, well, yeah, how long did it take you to pay off $205,000?

When I got focused, it was five years and six months.

Five years.

Very cool.

That's amazing.

And what was your range of income during that five years?

Started out around 178 and ended around 165.

Cool.

What do you do for a living?

I work in the aerospace industry.

Doing what?

So I'm in the business management side.

Oh, okay.

You know, basically.

So you manage rocket scientists?

Yeah.

Yeah, okay.

That's good.

It's funny.

Is that stressful?

Somebody's like that.

It would be tough.

Somebody's like brain surgeon.

Yeah, it is.

I have to hold people accountable.

Yeah.

Who know way too much.

Exactly.

Well, and if you know how to build a rocket, I assume you just assume you know how to do everything else on the planet, also, right?

Sure.

So what kind of debt was the 205?

A little under $15,000 for student loans, and the rest was my mortgage.

Yeah, yeah, you're a weirdo.

A paid-off house.

Boom.

What's this house worth, girl?

Right now, it's worth about $415,000.

Very cool.

And how much in your nest egg in your retirement?

Just shy of $300,000.

All right.

Heading towards Millionaire.

Almost baby steps millionaire.

So, how old are you?

I'm 45.

All right.

Way to go, kiddo.

Congrats.

Excellent.

You rocked it.

Thanks.

Very, very cool.

All right.

Tell me the story, because you're all put together.

You hang out with rocket scientists,

but you decide we're going to go game on.

Five years, we're knocking out mortgage and everything.

How'd you get connected to Ramsey?

Tell me how this all worked out.

So I got connected the first time in about 2005.

That's when I gave my life to the Lord and heard about it through my church.

Wow.

And I gave my life to the Lord and immediately went into like a Job season.

Oh.

Yeah.

Like every time you think it can't get worse, it got worse.

Oh, my God.

And, you know, there wasn't any irresponsibility or sin or anything like that.

It was just life happening.

Tragedy after tragedy.

Yeah, it was really intense.

And

my pastors gifted me a scholarship to go through FPU.

Oh, wow.

But I literally had nothing to work with.

So it was like information, and I'm a total nerd.

So it was always there, but I literally had nothing to work with.

And

then

basically in 2015, I was starting to kind of dig back out of the hole by the grace of God.

And I got this job offer to move from Kansas City to Connecticut.

And I'm like, heck yeah, I'm going to make the move.

This is a great opportunity.

So when I got to Connecticut and I had a real income, which was fabulous,

I started remembering, hey, FPU, I've got to get back with that.

So I went through a course again.

And then I started building an an estate because when I went through this season, I lost everything.

Literally, negative net worth.

I should have been on the upward trajectory of life.

I'm a single woman by design.

I don't have children.

I don't ever plan on getting married.

And so when you're by yourself and you lose everything, it's very...

It can be very burdensome.

That's an understatement.

How about terror?

That's a scary place to be, terrorizing.

Yeah, it was.

There's no safety net.

There's no support mechanism.

No, I mean, I was staring homelessness in the face.

It was very real.

So when I started rebuilding,

my instinct was to save everything.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's a good instinct.

I bought a house.

The Lord literally tucked it away from me.

It's a beautiful original Victorian.

It's like a life-size dollhouse, and I knew I had about a five-year window before I needed to do some major repairs and upkeep.

And I was saving away, had a nice big fat nest egg for that, and was continuing to just pay minimums.

And then I was entering into my, just before my 40th birthday, and the Lord just really convicted me.

And he's like, you've got money in your account to get rid of those student loans today.

I'm like,

Okay.

So for me, that was a huge leap of faith because when you have nothing and then all of a sudden you have something, giving it away feels like the rug's going to get pulled out again.

But I trusted him and I did it.

And then I started, you know, saving again.

It just astounded me how quickly it came back.

Then I

was, you know, working on the different repairs.

for the house, saving up that fund, and got to last summer and construction prices were just through the roof.

They were ridiculous.

Wanting $60,000, $70,000 to rebuild a porch or $100,000 for 18 windows.

It was ridiculous.

I felt like I wasn't making progress.

So I asked the Lord, I'm like, what do I do?

Like, I've got all this money saved.

And he said, pay off the house in one year.

And my jaw dropped on the floor because at that time, my mortgage balance was about $145,000.

I pulled $72,000 out of my nest egg, slapped it on the balance, and then every penny that was going to my floating fund,

I,

or I'm sorry, my sinking fund,

I put it on the mortgage and it was gone in nine months.

How's it feel?

Surreal, amazing.

Like, I live on $600 a month.

It's stupid.

It's ridiculous.

And I just rebuilt my porch, which was a huge project.

Paid cash for that.

Oh, yeah, I paid cash for that.

I'm getting ready to do the siding and the windows.

I got a contractor that's so reasonable.

And when you're standing there with cash and you don't have to do anything they their reasonableness changes yeah yeah yeah they can tell yeah wow yeah what an adventure dude

you you you have developed through this journey a

a backbone of steel.

I mean,

we can just feel the strength emanating off of you, not only from your faith, but just the journey has toughened you.

And so there's nothing comes at you.

You're ready.

I'm ready.

Yeah, there's pretty cool.

Yeah, there's nothing.

There's nothing that can really

we get these calls about

once every two weeks with someone who's on the edge of homelessness and hopelessness.

Talk to them for a second.

I was there.

I'll never forget the day sitting on the steps of my house going, what's the safest parking lot that I could sleep in?

My first home was taken

when all of the

big three mortgage companies were erroneously foreclosing.

They erroneously foreclosed on my house.

And I just had major surgery and I had 10 days.

It just big orange sticker on my house.

You don't own this anymore.

And I didn't even know that they were taking my house.

I was current.

Wow.

But it was done.

And

the only thing that I knew was I was about a two-year-old Christian.

I knew that my,

you know, what I learned is that, you know, the Lord is my provider.

He can bring me through.

And my precious pastors told me,

you will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.

This is not the end of the story.

And I hung on to that.

I genuinely did every day.

That's a word right there.

And it came true, too.

Yeah, it really did.

So we know that was the word yeah

so i

um just one little miracle at a time things came together i was not homeless i always had somewhere safe to sleep um and it was a couple years ago depend on the savings account depend on me pay off the student loans yeah don't depend on the savings account yep pay off the house yep depend on me yes depend on me yes depend on me you've had a steady message

yeah for that's a decade isn't it yeah or more it's 15 years well yeah yeah 15 years yeah Yeah, wow.

Yeah.

What a walk.

Yeah.

And during it, I mean, the journey just from, you know, five, six years ago, I had major surgery on my back, you know, 27 staples up my low back.

Oh, I shouldn't have said backbone of steel, should I?

No,

like, literally.

You do backbone of steel.

Who knows?

Be careful with that, okay.

Yeah.

Wow, proud of you.

Way to go.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Yeah, you are a Wonder Woman for sure.

I'm so proud of you.

Thanks.

All right.

Jennifer from Milford, Connecticut, like no other.

$205,000 paid off, house and everything in five years, making $78,000 to $165 from homeless to there.

Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, and one.

I am debt-free.

Yeah.

So amazing.

Yeah.

Wahahaha.

Oh,

man.

I'm getting soft in my old age, Dave.

These keep getting.

I've been soft in my old age.

I cried in Applebee's commercial.

Our scripture of the day, Colossians 4, 6, let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may may know how to answer everyone.

Thomas Sowell said, we all enter the world knowing nothing, but by the time we're teenagers, we know it all.

Sometimes it takes decades later before we know enough to realize how little we know.

Chris is in Memphis.

Hey, Chris, how are you?

I am doing good, Dave.

Thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely.

How can we help?

My wife and I are in babysit six, and I'm transitioning from intensity to intentionality.

Good.

And now I want to sign up for a country club membership at the club where I grew up playing golf with my dad and my brother every weekend because I want to give that same experience to my son, who's four and a half right now.

And the only thing holding me back is: I think, would Dave say go do it, or would he say it was stupid?

And then I thought, well, I can just call him and ask him.

Okay.

When has Dave Ramsey ever called anybody's?

Never mind.

So, Chris,

how much is the due or the initiation and how much are the dues?

The initiation is $5K.

The dues are $5.50 a month plus $85 for food and baths.

$5,000.

$5,000?

For the initiation, yeah.

That's all?

Yeah.

Oh, I thought that was a whole bunch of money.

I was going to say, get a salary.

There's plenty of country clubs and golf clubs that are half a million.

$250,000.

Plenty of them.

We got the lowest cost of living around.

That's good.

Okay, so $5,000 and $500 a month.

And what's your household income?

About $120,000.

Okay.

And you're obviously putting 15% away for retirement, and you're working on a budget with your wife, and you're in agreement.

Right.

And what is her opinion of this purchase?

I told her, hey, I want to sign up with this country club.

What do you think?

And instead of asking me any questions, she just said, yeah, if you want to, go ahead and do it.

I think over the last 11 years of our marriage, I think I've just built up a level of trust with her in handling our finances that she didn't even ask.

So she didn't even ask how much it was like I did?

No, but I went ahead and told her anyway, but she green lit it before I told her.

She needs to be careful.

It could have been a half a million.

Okay.

But you wouldn't have brought it to her because you're trustworthy.

Okay.

Anyway, yeah.

Well, I've got wife agreement.

I have money.

It's within the budget.

It's something you desire to do.

I think people at your stage buy $5,000 couches or $15,000 cars or go on $5,000 cruises or $10,000 cruises, don't they?

And that fits in our plan.

That's part of being intentional in baby steps four through six while you're hitting your other goals.

You just have you save the money to do that and you, you know, you're pulling $5.50 a month out, including your F and B.

But

it checks all the boxes.

I would do it.

Okay, cool.

No, it's not stupid.

What you're doing is you're thinking through, does this affect my life?

Does it prevent me from hitting other goals that are more important than this goal?

The answer is no.

Because it's a small amount of money in ratio to your income and your situation.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Yeah, it's just when I say it out loud to people and I'm thinking about doing it, all I can hear myself saying is I want to buy a boat.

You know, so it just sounds silly when I say it out loud because, you know, I just went through all the other baby steps and we were super intense.

And now

you were intense, so now you live like no one else, so later you can live and give like no one else.

Yeah.

That's why you did that.

And so that's moving from intense to intentional.

You had the right verbiage when you started the call.

It just feels weird because you sacrificed to get here and then the first time you actually draw back and enjoy a little of it or the first time you draw back and have a sizable generosity move, like if you gave away $5,000, you'll have that same emotion.

Like it kind of feels weird.

Like, am I going to be okay if I do this?

That kind of emotion.

And that's the because it's a muscle you've not been used to using.

You've been using the frugality muscle only, not the generosity or enjoyment muscle.

And

it's new.

And it takes a little time to get there.

I think you do it, though.

Kate's in California.

Hey, Kate, what's up?

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

Sure.

How can we help?

So, my question is regarding, well, basically, it boils down to at what point do my husband and I call it quits on a business venture?

How long have you been doing it?

Uh about five or six years.

Wow.

Is that your full-time gig?

Um

no.

So let me give you a little back story.

Um my husband is a creator.

He's the writer and a comic book artist.

And he's been working on some intellectual properties that he wants to either self-publish or sell to like a large company

and sort of break his way into the entertainment industry, basically.

When he first started doing this,

I told him that I would not feel comfortable paying for this or funding it with our household income.

I said, you know, I'll support you in doing this and trying this, but

you're going to have to go do a side gig or something to fund it.

He's been paying artists to create these artworks for him, basically.

So it's been about five years of him doing gig work, like working, you know,

so he's invested a ton in it and has made no money.

Correct.

So this is not a business.

This is a hobby.

Businesses have a profit.

Businesses have profit.

Right.

And that's kind of my attitude about it.

No, that's not not an attitude.

That's a fact.

It's a fact.

Yeah.

Right.

His hobby is imagining a thing and then hiring an artist to make that thing come alive.

But he's made no money with it.

Correct.

Yeah.

And he's just crossed a threshold where somebody can sneeze and a computer can just do it now for you.

Right.

It's, I mean, there's a lot of things about it that are, that are becoming frustrating to me.

Right.

but well

it's just we have four kids um i'm i'm the primary breadwinner in our household he he okay it's not becoming frustrating he is becoming frustrating he's been frustrating a long time and you're entering into

resentment

yes and you need to put that conversation on the table clear as kind The best way you can love him right now is to put all that on the table.

Yeah.

Because he's choosing,

he's choosing a hobby and part-time gigs over five years

to

over his wife and kids and their stability.

It's not even like he's an actor and he keeps getting gigs and he's getting more and he's pushing it and he's going.

That's not even happening here.

This has been 100% outlay.

No income.

None.

Right.

And it's

yeah, and he's, you know, but I have to say, I do, I'm a creative person myself.

This has nothing to do with being a creative.

It has to do with being a responsible adult.

Creatives can be responsible adults.

Dave and I are both creatives.

But when you make humans,

you also are creative when you're a parent.

And that's where the bulk of your energy goes.

Yeah, you get to take care of your family.

I get to be creative only after my wife and kids have been served.

Yeah.

Or I get to be creative in a way that makes a profit so that my wife and kids are served.

Like writing a best-selling book.

That would be a creative thing.

But the book sold a million copies.

Hello.

So there's that.

And that's the thing.

You got to, you know,

I do creative stuff.

I play music.

So we can't just, you're trying to be sweet to his dreamer self.

But here's the thing.

If

you we love people who dream.

We don't love people who live in them.

You need to do something with the dream.

Leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home.

So my daughters were teenagers, if they came in and said, daddy, he's the nicest guy, he's a dreamer, I'm thinking, oh God, they're going to live in my basement.

Okay?

So you don't want to live people that are live in their dreams.

We want people who execute out of the dream and turn it into a vision, a goal, a strategy, an implementation that makes money.

We have to feed our family.

So yeah, you guys got some marriage work to do.

Yes, he needs to close the hobby down because it's frustrating his wife to the point she's calling us.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.