'Marathon Man' With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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It's still New York City month.

It kind of just fell into New York City month.

I saw you did that.

Five episodes in June, though.

We have to find two more New York movies after this.

Twist my arm.

Marathon Man was an easy one.

We've been circling this one for a while.

You've kept nudging me.

I've been begging to get in the dentist's chair.

I forgot to bring the book.

I was going to put the book right out there.

But anyway, Marathon Man is next.

Dustin Hoffman, Laurence Olivier,

Roy Scheider, William Devame, Marta Keller.

Is it safe?

Is it safe?

Marathon Man, a thriller, rated R.

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Nazis

The greatest movie villains we will ever have

we just peaked.

We're just never gonna top it.

There's nothing better.

If you if you have a chance to get a vice angla in the movie, you gotta you gotta do it, man.

It's just you know, you can have all these different types of villains, you can make them as evil as you want you can make them as intimidating as tough as you want but then you throw in nazi war criminal walking through the jewelry district hoping nobody recognizes him and i'm like we've peaked yeah yeah i was thinking about the uh basically pauline kale called this a jewish revenge fantasy marathon man but i was thinking about what's what's like the top of the line for that and glorious bastards is probably number one right that would be the apex yeah marathon man's in there

munich for sure,

Raiders.

Well, he's not Jewish, but yeah, but yeah, the Nazis are the villains in there, yeah.

I mean, are you talking about just Nazi villains?

Yes,

some

just being in somewhere in the vicinity where at some point you're watching the movie going, We got to take these guys down, yeah, yeah.

Um,

and this one has probably the single best villain of all those villains, which is weird because he would go with Waltz and bastards.

It's tough, it's tough.

I think uh

Christian Zell, because of what his, he's got one move, and that move is pretty, pretty arresting.

The dental work thing is like, you take that.

Oh, I thought you were going to say the, I suddenly have a razor coming on.

Oh, I guess he's got two moves.

Yeah, so he's got two moves.

But, but Waltz in

Landa is pretty, pretty amazing and such an orator and just an incredible character in general.

But Zelle.

Better entrance.

Zelle.

Although Zell's entrance with the opera, with him folding the shirt.

Shaving his head.

Yeah.

Pretty solid.

Yeah.

But Waltz's first scene is pretty great.

Yes.

I don't know.

They're in the finals.

We'll work on social Nazi villain Mount Rushmore.

I want to find out who's the number 35 to 43 ranked Nazi villain.

You know, it's funny.

We can't have them anymore because now it's that you couldn't do this in the modern age because it's been too far away.

They're making it.

You build like grandchildren of the war villains.

It just doesn't have the same, in my opinion, the same kind of zest.

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing that I think when you're watching this film, we talked about this, I think, on a pod recently, and I can't remember which one it was, but it's crazy to watch this movie that's 40 years old.

They're so much closer to World War II now in this movie than we are even to this movie now.

I know.

And so it's a very living, breathing thing.

And the idea that this guy has come out of hiding and his actual victims are like, holy fucking shit, the devil has come back is like one of the most like terrifying, arresting moments in movie history to me.

And everything Olivier does with the character, and I can't wait to talk about Olivier.

About Larry.

Yeah, Sir Larry just

I think what's so great about the character is he's fully evil.

Yeah.

The torture scene,

you can just see it.

You're like, okay, I get it.

I get that this guy is as dark as we can get as humans.

But then when he's, there's a couple, like he's getting off in the airport.

He's in the jewelry district and he's got the right level of like, I'm actually nervous for my own safety.

You don't see like vulnerable, evil villains that often.

Well, he balances it perfectly.

I think it was a case of the filmmakers playing into the realities of the actor.

So

Olivier is sick while making this movie.

He's old, like he can't do a lot of physical stuff.

He can't do a lot of stunts.

He can't move around that much.

But that then every move he makes and everything he does takes on this huge amount of importance.

Yeah.

So they like played to his remaining strengths in the film itself.

And the dentistry scene, which is one of the most horrifying things in movie history, is actually doesn't require a lot of him, right?

Like he's just sort of like pacing around this room a little bit and asking this question over and over and over again.

One of the greats.

Yeah.

Sir Larry.

Yeah.

Yeah, because you think, by all accounts, one of the greatest stage actors who ever lived.

I don't know if he's one, two, three, where he ranks in the pyramid.

Just like him and Barry Moore.

Any of the modern he has to be mentioned.

If you're just being like, hey, who are the great stage actors?

He always has to be mentioned.

Yeah.

But part of, I think, what made him great when he's playing like Richard III, things like that, is he's got this physical presence walking around the stage.

So by the time we get to Marathon, man,

you know, and there's been some unbelievable writing about this movie.

Goldman has a whole chapter about it in his book about how physically frail he was and how hard it was for him to stand.

But he's still an imposing guy.

Yeah.

So he's just the perfect balance of old, frail, scary.

I actually still believe like he could kill Hoffman.

Sure.

And it's just, it's just an awesome performance, which, of course, he does not win.

But he was inspired.

His character in this movie is the White Angel, but it was inspired by Mengele, who was the angel of death.

And it was the same thing in the concentration camps.

He would just see him with the white, they would see him with the white hair and they just knew.

So it's based on that.

Yeah, Goldman's idea.

So this is based, Goldman wrote the screenplay based on his own novel.

And his, I think the genesis for the novel was what if Mengele had to come out of hiding?

or go to New York to get some treatment.

Right.

Or to get, yeah, to get some sort of something.

What happens when you put a character like that in play, a person like that in play?

And then he builds out the world from around that.

So he writes the book.

He publishes it in 74.

That's less than 30 years after World War II ends.

Still pretty fresh.

Like, think about it now.

In 2025,

that's 95.

So that's like basically the OJ trial.

Yeah.

Which doesn't seem like it happened that long ago, right?

Even though it did, even though like Craig, you know, was born that year.

Would have loved to hear Christian Zell's takes on the OJ trial.

He probably would have been able to get a better confession out of OJ.

Goldman writes the book, knowing it's going to be a movie because it just reads perfectly as a movie, sells the film rights for 500K.

Bringing in our guy, Big Shot Bob, Robert Evans.

So it's Ali McGrath, the kind of legs that can stop a room.

It's a wonderful picture.

There's a making of,

I was going to save this for what's age the best, but there is a making of marathon, man, on YouTube.

I can't believe I missed it.

20 minutes.

It is also.

I think it's also on the 4K.

It's Robert Evans.

His foot's up on the chair.

He's got a navy v-neck sweater and a perfectly starched white shirt underneath.

And he's standing there with his glasses.

And he's just like, ever since I came to Paramount, we love to make incredible pictures for everybody's entertainment.

You'll see in the water works, we recreated that in Paramount's bed, no expense.

It took up two sound stages.

You can hear him sing it.

And the entire wall behind him is just pictures of Robert Evans.

Yeah.

He was like a parody of a parody of a parody.

Yeah, Patton Oswald did

the greatest ever Robert Evans impersonation, but it's actually beyond impersonation.

If you watch this video, I wish producers still did this today.

I just think the 70s.

weren't just the apex of unintentional comedy.

It's like, I don't think we'll ever even come 10% close ever again.

No, the combination of cocaine and everything else is just incredible.

You know, and it would manifest itself in some ways, like basically everything Telly Savalis did as Kojak, the battle network stars, the first couple years, just there's a lack of self-awareness all over the place.

But Bob Evans was the ultimate producer for that.

It would be no self-awareness.

It's fucking incredible, though, if we did the backdrop for you is just 100 pictures of you.

I think LeBron might have done that for mine the game.

They might have talked him out of it.

Bob Evans said, The book reads like the movie movie of all time.

I regard it as a cheap investment because you don't often find books that translate into film.

This is the best thing I've read since the godfather.

I knew I never should have let Ally McGraw leave with Steve McQueen.

I knew I'd never get it back.

That son of a bitch peck and paw.

Two months with Steve McQueen, even I would have folded.

So anyway, we have Bill Goldman, Bob Evans.

And then they're like, let's just get a bunch of awesome famous actors.

And not to step on casting what ifs, but they went, Bob Evans said they actually went five for five with the people they wanted for the movie in the roles they wanted and just got all of them because everybody loved the script.

Yeah, there were some rumors about if this person said no, we might look at this person or like John Schlesinger, the director, might have wanted this person, but it sounds like Evans got his first draft picks.

Dustin Hoffman, Larry Olivier.

I like that they call him Larry.

I can't wait to talk about my Lawrence Olivier deep dive in the Indian airport on Saturday.

William Devane.

Wait, so you did Olivier into Dylan Harper tape?

Yeah.

I'd finished my marathon man research and then went right into four hours of YouTube.

And our guy, Russ Shatter.

Yeah.

Big time for him.

Humphrey Vogot of the 1970s.

The Thinky Man's Action style.

Still recovering from Sean saying he wasn't handsome.

Remember Sean's whole thing?

I mean, he's not conventionally handsome.

He's got a hand.

Sean just downed him.

Poor Russ Shatter can't even defend himself.

Just not handsome enough for Sean.

Hoffman's the lead.

He's coming off Lenny.

This comes out the same year as all the president's men.

He loses 15 pounds, runs four miles a day.

And

Evans said Hoffman would, quote, would run just for a take.

He would run for a half mile.

So he came into the scene.

He would actually be out of breath.

This was the height of Dustin Hoffman.

Difficult method actor guy.

Sure.

Yeah.

And he pressed Olivier with it.

He did.

So

hold that because I want to get into some of those stories because we had Olivier too.

This leads to all the presidents been marathon, man.

The straight time in 78.

You like that movie?

I do.

Agatha,

Kramer versus Kramer.

That's 79, right?

We covered that in the rewatchables.

That's my favorite Dustin Hoffman movie and performance.

Three years off, Tootsie.

Three years off, Death of a Salesman on TV.

years off, Ishtar.

He's doing a lot of stage stuff.

Have we ever really had a

Dustin Hoffman, How Much Did You Like Him conversation?

We haven't.

He's probably of that cohort of 70s actors,

70s associated actors.

I would say not necessarily

like I go, I go down to like Duval, you know, like

Pas Pacino, De Niro, Duval,

Hackman.

You know, like I get pretty far down the 70s before I'm like, Hoffman's great.

I mean, I think you can see, like, it's an interesting point in his career because he can impose his creative choices on the material rather than the reverse.

Yeah.

So if you read the book, Babe is much chattier, much more, much funnier.

Yeah.

And is like kind of this like nervous, but is also supposed to be like six foot one and kind of like a cut out of a piece of rock, like a pretty big athlete.

And Hoffman, it like makes him into a much more damaged, much more nervous, much shyer kind of character, I think.

And that was obviously

the other side would have been pretty.

It's a different kind of movie.

It's a different kind of movie.

It's like a little bit more playful.

And I'd say the novel is more playful.

It's weird.

I'm with you.

Like I could list a whole bunch of 70s actors and 80s actors before I'm like, and then Hoffman.

I don't, you don't have a lot of conversations with people that are like, my favorite actor is Dustin Hoffman.

That's my guy.

I ride with Hoffman.

Do you think it's like everybody agrees he's really good?

He's almost like an athlete where you're like, Yeah, I really respect him, but not a huge fan.

Do you think maybe some of his films

like I, I mean, all the president's men is like basically 50-50, him in Redford anyway, right?

And he's awesome.

He's incredible in that, but he almost, it's almost like he needs someone to play off of, and it really depends on who he's playing off of, is kind of where it goes.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to see him in the revenant.

No, I would not.

Just climbing into a bear naked.

I feel like that's the second revenant.

I wouldn't want to have the difference you've made recently.

It might have been scouting a little bit.

You wouldn't want to see him in the Martian.

You wouldn't want to spend two hours with him and Mars by himself.

I wouldn't want to be in Castaway with Dustin Hoffman.

I wouldn't really want to be in a buddy cop movie with Dustin Hoffman.

No.

I think there are particular things

that he's really good at, but I always feel like he's Dustin Hoffman in the movie.

He's not one of those people who gets lost in a roll.

Hackman, I feel like, because we get horny hacks.

That's true.

We get Hoosier's hacks.

I feel like he has different moves, but like the Kramer versus Kramer guy versus this guy, are they like that different?

They're all cerebral.

I think they all have like a certain nervous energy.

Yeah, I think cerebral, nervous, a little bit, um, a little bit damaged.

Incredibly unconventional-looking guy.

You know what I mean?

Like, and tiny.

Yeah.

So it's, it's a lot of these 70s stars, with the exception of Redford, and I guess Beatty, but even Beatty was kind of a weirdo, like have a really, really, really particular energy.

It was a moment where guys who maybe in other times in Hollywood history would have been character actors or become the biggest movie stars in the world.

Well, one of the, I'll step on Casting Wood Ifs, one of the reasons he took the movie was because he heard Pacino wanted to do it.

And I think Pacino and Hoffman were on each other's corner in a bunch of different ways.

Hoffman was up for Michael, wasn't he?

I just feel like you had like the Redford side of like leading leading men guys over here and Newman and McQueen.

And then you had kind of the Hoffman, Pacino, maybe De Niro a little bit, but the little artsier actor guys.

And I think Hoffman and Pacino, Pacino did a better job of stretching parts and kind of falling into characters and losing himself in characters than like Hoffman.

I just feel like in some movies, to me at least, Pacino's cooler.

Like

he can be cool.

Right.

Hoffman rarely is.

But it all worked out for him because he became,

you know, he's definitely in the first sentence with all those guys.

Yeah.

But I just think he was, I felt like, always felt like he was a little more limited than some of those other guys.

Like, I don't think he could have been Tony Montana.

You know, that would have been really funny.

I don't know if I would have wanted to see him in Dog Day Afternoon.

Yeah.

I don't know if I would have believed him as Serpico.

I don't think he would have been fun as Vincent Hannah.

Of course he gets to that comedy, doesn't he?

It's straight time.

It's straight time.

Which I think is a really interesting movie.

I wish he had made like three three more zags.

I guess Lenny is a zag, but that's a pretty

dated hit.

And then Lenny is a funny thing.

That is not a fun.

Lenny is not a fun hand.

In all that jazz, that's what Bob Fossey's editing.

So when he keeps looking at the stand-up footage, it's supposed to be Lenny.

Even if he'd been the Scheider part in all that jazz, that would have been really fun.

If he had been the lead in Jaws.

Yeah.

I don't know.

It just seems like he was very particular about the parts he took, but this is like a classic Dustin Hoffman part.

Yes.

Right.

Yeah.

It's perfect.

He gets to be the hero.

He's a little damaged.

Yeah.

He gets to stutter and

he gets to have that energy.

It's full, it's full sentence.

He he jogged.

He lost 15 pounds.

He probably like wore prosthetic, fucked up teeth after the dental scene.

Like he immerses himself in it.

Craig, you have Dustin Hoffman thoughts?

I just, I think that I can't tell if the reasons why there's not a lot of Dustin Hoffman's now is just because we need people who fit into more traditional buckets, like, you know, Action Star or Comedy Guy, or also, or if it's more just that the movies he was in aren't as popular now and don't get made now, which is why people like him aren't as famous.

I don't know which one is.

It's kind of what we were talking about with Beatty, you know, where we were like, how come Beatty's movies, how come Beatty doesn't, like, I don't feel like his name has the instant recognition or the

associations that Redford does.

Because there is no Hoffman comp right now.

Like, I don't know who I would pick because the movies that Hoffman is starring in that made a lot of money back in the day, that made him famous, aren't making a lot of money today.

They're still.

in the corner.

The closest thing I can think of is Jesse Eisenberg, but he's not as intense as Hoffman by any stretch of the imagination.

Yeah, that's a good one.

Kieran Colkin honestly has some Hoffman-y qualities, but like if you put the two of them together, maybe it's like Hoffman, but I don't know.

Well, by all accounts,

pretty polarizing as a hang

in some of these sets and some of the movies.

And Goldman was not a fan.

He was not.

And Goldman was not shy about

a couple of the actors that he didn't like.

Well, Hoffman was apparently a big part of why the ending of the movie got changed and they brought in Robert Townsend.

Yeah, hold on.

I still have a part for that.

We got to hit Olivier really fast.

Okay.

I think one of the great 20th century actors.

Yeah.

He clinched that one.

He won two.

He won an Oscar and two honorary Oscars.

He went for Hamlin in 1949.

He won five primetime Emmys.

He was knighted in 1947.

Yeah.

They said that the two greatest things you could have seen him in were Othello and Richard III.

Goldman wrote, if he could have seen two performances when he was younger, one of them would have been Othello.

There's that one.

That's an anecdote in Adventures in the Screen Trade where

Olivier keeps referencing the last time he's been in New York and he references like these years.

And Goldman's like, I realize that he's calling it 51, but that's actually when he was doing Glass Menagerie or whatever.

Right.

And he's like, holy shit.

It'll be like Tom Brady listing off Super Bowl locations.

I've been in Indianapolis before.

Yeah, I was in New Orleans.

So anyway, by the time we hit the 70s,

he thinks he's dying of cancer, takes the role to make more money for his family to leave some stuff behind.

And he's on pain meds all the time.

Robert Ervins had to get Lloyd's of London to insure him.

One of the great inshoes in the entire world.

Yeah, to talk to Lloyd himself.

And

he does the movie and then recovers and then has this really weird IMDb stretch afterwards where he's in a bunch of TV movies.

He's in a bridge too far, he's in the boys from Brazil, he's in a little romance, which is a really good movie.

That was Diane Lane's first movie.

He's in Dracula, he's in the jazz singer with Neil Diamond, which is one of the worst movies of the early 80s.

Yeah, he's in Clash of the Titans in 81 as Zeus.

So, all of a sudden, he's grabbing some paychecks near the end there.

But, um,

I mean, the reverence that everyone talks about acting with him.

I don't know who that is now.

Where it's like, Olivier's in our movie.

This is, I'm psyched.

It would be Daniel D.

Lewis, probably.

Like

15 years from now.

Yeah, if DDL came back and was like, you know what,

I'll make a couple of, I'll just make like five more movies.

Yeah, I'll play Zelle.

Bat out the checking account.

Oh my God, that's DDL.

Devane.

Goldman had this thing.

I'm just going to read it.

I cornered, he's talked about they broke from a scene.

I cornered Devane, who is bright and very articulate.

I told him how wonderfully he had done and asked what it was like rehearsing with Lawrence Olivier.

It doesn't matter, Devane replied.

I didn't know what in hell he was talking about and said so.

This is rehearsal, Devane said.

It's nothing.

When the camera starts to roll, he'll give me a little of this.

He'll give me a little of that.

And you'll never know I'm in the movie.

No one's going to be watching me.

That's Olivier, man.

That's how everyone thought about him.

Except for Hoffman,

who's like, let's fucking improvise, Larry.

Let's go.

Hoffman's like Anthony Edwards.

He's like, I don't care.

Well, so that Goldman tells this long story of him making Olivier rehearse Hoffman and making him stand.

And it was clear to everyone in the set that Olivier was trying to

fade and improvise.

And everyone thought it was like this power play.

And then Hoffman said, after the story wasn't true,

I'm going to go with my guy Goldman because he doesn't make shit up.

But this leads to, I'm going to put this category right here, the Stephen Seagal shitting on himself award for most unbelievable anecdote from the actual film shoot.

It goes to Lawrence Olivier.

So his portrayal is Henry V.

So the story was met that there's a method acting thing and Hoffman was up.

This is the story.

I'm not saying it's true.

Hoffman said he was up three days to try to simulate what it would be like to be up for three days.

And he's telling Olivia about this.

And Hoffman had, he was just rubbing Olivia the wrong way.

And Olivia finally said about method acting, my dear boy, why don't you just try acting?

Yeah.

And everyone on this set was like, oh, it was like just this huge cutdown.

And this became a legendary Hoffman.

Yeah, it's gotten told in 13 different ways by everybody who was like a part of it, from Goldman to Hoffman,

Schlesinger.

Like everybody has got their version of how it happened.

Whether he was joking, whether he was serious.

Hoffman's version is he had been going to Studio 54 a lot and that he had been partying a lot.

And the problem is Studio 54 wasn't open until the year after.

So that's where his story falls apart because it opened in 1977, the year after the movie came out.

You got Johnny Cochrane.

Sorry.

Sorry, Dusty.

He said on inside the actor's studio, the exchange was distorted and he had been up all night at a nightclub and Olivier was merely joking.

It's too famous of a story.

I also don't think there's a lot of people like protecting Dustin Hoffman at this point because he seems a little prickly.

Yeah.

So

he also said Hoffman on the last day of shooting, Olivier visited him.

He brought him a book, The Complete Works of William Shakespeare, and then proceeded to read scenes.

from several of the plays for Hoffman.

And Hoffman said he was an absolute delight.

They loved each other.

And then he said Goldman made up this stuff or exaggerated it because he was mad because they changed the ending.

Yeah.

Again, I'm going to go with Goldman.

Yeah.

It's, it's incredible.

We don't really have enough of this anymore where

I think for like several decades, Hoffman and Goldman were essentially like.

trash talking each other whenever they would be asked to talk about marathon man yeah and

and simultaneously he was also trash talking with redford yes and then redford came up with this whole alternate version of how all the president's men allegedly happened.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So that neither, I mean, that's the most famous movie book anyone's ever written.

Yes.

His first one.

And both of those guys really resented it.

Sure.

And I mean, for Goldman, it's his novel.

It's his screenplay.

And then the star has his ending rewritten by like arguably the only screenwriter who's bigger than him, Robert Towne.

So who do you believe?

I like Goldman's version better.

And I could just...

I still think he would make it up.

He was like a very prideful guy.

He remembers everything.

And I think he's also pretty like honest about his shortcomings and the times he's fucked up.

Right.

He's very self-deprecating and he's the first one to criticize himself.

So in this case, they changed the ending.

We'll get in all that.

I can't remember which one in Adventures in the Screen Trade where he's like, I screwed.

Like, was it right stuff where he's just like, I just didn't do this well?

Yeah.

And then they, they completely like saved it.

So he's honest about his failures.

Yeah, no question.

I mean, he went into like huge writing slumps and all kinds of things.

So, um,

listen, it was the 70s, and these guys had huge egos, and they get studios with Cow Taunt to them, and all of them took advantage of it.

And

that was it.

But I'm Team Olivier and Team Team Goldman.

So

Olivier was nominated for best supporting actor.

He did not win, but it's quite a category.

Robards wins for all the presence men.

Ned Beatty Network, Burgess Meredith Rocky,

Burt Young, Rocky as Paulie Panino,

and then Olivier.

That's it.

I'm good with Robarts.

Stacked category.

Robarts is amazing in that movie.

You're good with that, right?

Yeah, Beatty.

I think Beatty's like in third there behind Olivier.

And then Hoffman did not get nominated.

But he did for president?

No.

Oh,

nothing.

$6.5 million budget made $28.2 million.

And we should have mentioned this sooner.

The kind of movie that just doesn't exist anymore.

No, this would be a prestige TV show by far.

Or it would be like

an Apple movie that they hired two huge stars for.

And it had a huge budget, but it was almost too big.

I mean, if you made this movie today,

you just, nobody would.

I was just thinking about all the the scenes that are outdoors in paris and new york city like i don't even know how much that would cost like they they they shoot on the street in new york there are scenes where it's like i they had they must have had different rules about extras back then because yeah people are like looking at the camera you know so it's obviously they're just running around these cities handheld with hoffman and shider yeah they just seem there like in the jewelry district with 500 people yeah I don't know how they do it.

It's incredible.

Yeah, so it would probably be, you read, probably a scripted.

But it's also a perfect 70s movie in a lot of ways it's certainly like the place where our interests converge it is a political conspiracy thriller meets a revenge thriller so it's about like all this like this pent-up historical anxiety the jewish factor the nazis but it's also about a guy who's been living inside of his brain for a long time who's forced to like step out and become a physical force and defend himself which is basically what a lot of like we talked about about it with Deathwish, but a lot of the revenge movies.

And Hoffman's made other movies like that with Straw Dogs and stuff.

Yeah.

And we should have, I should have said this sooner too, but the paranoia piece of it, it's just so specific to this era and it's so good.

It's like, saw my wheelhouse.

There's something about the vibes of these movies where it's just like, don't trust anyone ever.

Everything is shadowy.

At night, there's never people around.

It's always dark.

You just never know who's coming around a corner.

There's always could be like some sort of henchman, even in a park.

Yeah.

Just some henchman could just mug you and you don't know what their intentions are.

Yeah.

They make the everyday

seem surreal.

Like you can shoot at the Library of Congress and all the president's men, or you can shoot somebody's apartment in Harlem in Marathon Man and make it seem like.

this German expressionist kind of setting or you know like the entire world is pushing down on these characters.

It's it's honestly one of my favorite kinds of movies is these is these 70s thrillers.

Yeah, we've talked about it.

It's this specific era.

It's coming out of Watergate.

It's coming out of Vietnam.

It's coming out of the JFK assassination and the RFK assassination, the MLK assassination, and just people not knowing what to believe anymore.

And who were the good guys, who were the bad guys.

And you could see a movie like this where you could feel like you could be babe.

You're just studying for some exam or something.

Or dissertation, yeah.

You're in your bathtub, and then all of a sudden somebody's breaking down your door and trying to get you.

Isn't it an interesting turnover where, because we did Star Wars, and I I think the thrill of Star Wars is every kid who watches it can say to themselves, like, what if I was Luke Skywalker?

Like, what if I saved the galaxy and I was the special person?

But the, the thrill of these movies is like, what if every dark fantasy I had is true?

And everybody is out to get me.

Yeah.

And the government is following me.

And I mean, it's just such a weird changeover in the seven, in just one decade, they change over to like, no, no, no.

Like, what if the galaxy are like, you could fix it all?

Yeah.

And then it moves into the 80s and everybody's like, you know, it'd be cool being rich.

Here's a movie about that.

Hey, here's another movie.

You know what?

If an alien came, he might be

$6.5 million budget, $28.2 million makes it.

And Ebert goes three stars.

He said, if holes and plots bother you, Marathon Man will be maddening.

But as well-crafted escapist entertainment is a diabolical thrower.

The movie works with relentless skill.

I'm going to give this

it's like a half fucky rush.

Yeah.

I think he robbed it of a half star.

Should we start giving stars to even starvation?

I was just about to say that.

We have to review this.

Because I think this is a two-star review for a three-star movie that we actually think is four stars.

Listen, if he wanted to say three and a half, because there's a couple plot holes, I would have been upset about it.

But I like.

If this movie came out now, we would be like, oh my God, they figured it out.

Movies are back.

And this was just like another movie in 1976 that was really good.

But we were just cranking these out 10, 12 a year.

Yeah.

And even when they didn't work, it was like Black Sunday, which is like a really cool movie that doesn't totally work, but it's still fun to watch.

Ever said something earlier in his review that's paraphrasing is just like

on a moment to moment, it only matters.

Thrillers only, it only matters if a thriller is believable on a moment to moment basis.

Like on any thriller, you can step back and be like, what the fuck is Vertigo about?

Like, come on.

And you can do that with this movie, but when that music comes in, the Michael Small music comes in, and the shadows, and the weird moments, and just like everybody kind of milling around, and you don't know who's a spy and who's not.

It's just like, who cares about the plot?

It's so funny when you read the reviews, especially Pauline.

I hated this.

Yeah, everybody's expectations were so high for every movie.

It's hilarious.

Yeah.

Ebert's just like, ah, didn't quite get there.

Like Lawrence Libby playing an evil Nazis.

Like, I don't know.

Three stars.

Solid.

Let's take a break and then we'll do the categories.

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All right, most re-watchable scene.

We got to start with the crazy car chase.

Old man Road Rage.

Yeah.

Old Man Road Rage.

This also wins the Ruffalo Hannah Rubinck Partridge Rover Acting Award for both drivers.

Hey, fuck you.

Fuck you.

I have a different winner for Ruffalo.

Okay.

It's for me.

It wins it.

It just goes on and on.

It's very 70s.

I think this would be a much more exciting car accident 50 years later for filming it, but

very fun to watch.

The drive into the oil truck is a little like

you guys could have broke.

Yeah.

It's a little naked gunnish.

The hotel fight scene.

Just all of the doc stuff in Paris.

Roy Schneider?

Looking like a bag of leather.

What's your move when somebody comes around with you with a piano wire?

I mean, there's only one move.

You just got to do this right away, right?

You got to.

Because if you fuck that up, you're just immediately done.

Yeah, you're dead.

So you gotta do this, but then what's the second move?

Elbow.

I hope I never have to find out what my second move.

Yeah.

I probably go headbutt.

So up that headbutt.

Maybe like lifting the leg, try to kick in the balls.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, you see the piano wire.

think the single most underrated man.

And then I turn around like, stop.

Did you hear Devers got treated to the Giants?

It just happened.

His war was a little low this year.

Um,

I think piano wire is the single most terrifying

thing.

Next to dental equipment, yeah.

Well, I'm saying, like, when the bad guys come in, they could give, they could do numb chucks.

Like, we've seen every sort of device.

It does piano wire because you're getting hurt even if you're stopping it.

You're still getting like eight stitches in your hand.

The way his blood.

is playing out of it.

Oh my God.

You're just slicing tendons.

I also love the old guy in the balcony across.

Yeah, the watcher guy.

Yeah.

So these are two scenes together, but I'm putting them together.

They're both for shatter.

Doc drops in on Babe, and then Doc goes to lunch with Babe and Elsa.

Love that.

That's the combo.

When he drops in on Hoffman, it becomes a play for like four minutes and it's just crackling dialogue.

It's just really good.

Two good actors sizing each other up, throwing some throwing some pitches at each other.

It's really good stuff.

Also, you just learn so much about them from Doc's reaction to babe writing about their dad.

Yeah.

It's like, I want to see this shit.

You know, like, it's just, you know, you learn everything you need to know about those guys.

And then with Elsa,

he's like,

just rope it up sir.

And then he goes, I've made all this up.

There is no verbia.

There is no Mount Ropes.

There's no clawlesser.

She's like, what?

Pretty fun.

Fun rope it up trick.

All right.

Doc goes to see Zelle and then Babe and gets stabbed to death and then shows up all bloody.

Yeah.

We get a good Hoffman scream.

Here we go.

Hoffman in the bathtub right into the torture scene.

I think this is most rewatchable for me.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a tough watch.

Him in the bathtub.

Is about as good as it gets for a what would I do if I was in this situation?

Trying to crawl out the window.

Everyone's fear of just being naked if you're about to be murdered.

Just be like, I just got to get some pajamas on before you kill me.

Hold on, can you hold on one second with the piano wire?

Just give me one minute here.

Just gotta get some pants on.

Yeah, um, but then the way they're screwing the door frame,

it's that's like, all right, and then the window's not big enough to get out of.

Um, and then we get right into the uh

Olivier.

Yeah,

is it safe?

Yes, it's safe.

It's very safe.

So safe, you wouldn't believe it.

Is it safe?

I think that's another good scary movie device when somebody's just saying this incoherent sentence over and over again that you don't have an answer for.

So, Craig, yo, did you had you heard of Is It Safe before you saw this movie?

No.

What did you think of this scene?

I thought it was incredible.

Yeah.

I thought the, I agree.

I think the bathtub scene is one of the scarier, most suspenseful scenes i've seen in a long time and for how this movie's very quiet in a lot of moments and it's terrifying uh also i think just i just nobody lays in baths anymore no nobody just ruminates me i'm the only one nobody ruminates in a bath what are you talking about i invented baths

Didn't even have them before I started.

19th century prostitutes didn't invent baths.

I invented them.

Baths were out before I started taking them.

You still take baths?

I do.

Wow.

It's good for my lower back.

Oh, yeah.

That's good.

No, I still read there.

Okay.

Used to read books.

Now I'd bring the iPad in there and read that.

Read tweets?

Read tweets.

Yeah.

Going through Twitter.

X.

Did Elon do anything today?

Whoa, crazy one, Elon.

Yeah, the is it safe?

I love scenes and movies where you're watching going.

And, you know, Tarantino, I think very smartly, some of the stuff that he kind of...

Some of his like torture stuff.

Some of the stuff stuff he borrowed from the 70s as homages or just things that he liked.

And one of the things that he was really good at is the,

I don't know where this scene is going, but I'm, I know I should be scared.

Yeah.

And I have a charismatic somebody who's up to something.

Michael Madsen dancing with the razor blade.

Exactly.

That's basically a marathon.

Yeah.

Right.

And you're just like, what?

So in this, it's like, why does he keep asking us to safe?

What?

What the fuck is this guy up to?

Yeah.

It's almost like

I don't even know if like after the first 10 or 15 times I saw this movie, if I even thought about like what he was actually asking.

Cause, you know, it's, it's basically like, am I going to get robbed at the bank?

Yeah.

But you're just like, this is such an existential, almost like unanswerable question.

Yeah.

And this is the moment where this is why you get Hoffman.

It's like for every scene where you may be like, all right, Dustin, you're dialing it up a little bit or like, you don't have to run Larry in circles here.

This is the scene where he is

as scared as any normal would be.

And him being like, I can't, how can I possibly answer a question?

I don't know what you're asking me.

You know, like, yeah.

John Henry caught, when he called me about the Deborah's trade, he wouldn't tell me what it was.

He just kept asking if it was safe.

And I was like, no, John Henry, don't trade our best hitter.

Oh, fuck.

Well, the other torture scene.

After the Ropo-Dope from William Devane, my guy.

Yeah, a lot of Ropo-dopes in this movie.

And Olivier says, a live, freshly cut nerve is infinitely more sensitive.

And you're just like, just fucking, can you just shoot me?

How about just kill me?

Yeah, please.

That's because the Mookie just said that.

Shoot me in the head.

And the Xander tooth was dead.

So they cut a new one, Rafi.

Oh, yeah.

I got the Roman Anthony and Marcella Meyer teeth in the way back.

Hoffman said Olivier got inspiration for the torture scene from seeing a gardener prune roses roses shortly before the shooting.

I don't know if I totally believe this.

I'm not sure Olivier needed a lot of inspiration, but he said that Olivier realized that Zelle was a craftsman, that he used tools with skill.

This also has a great exchange with Devane and Olivier.

I believe in my country, Devane says, and Olivier is like, so did we all.

Yeah.

She's like, oh man.

Also, evil Nazis.

This is good points.

Zelle's accent being kind of like from nowhere.

Yeah.

Is so creepy.

Everything about him is so creepy.

He's not coming around being like, we have Viz of Making Go talk, Dr.

Jones.

Like he's, yeah, it's like he's been in South America for a long time.

Like it's just kind of this flat accent.

Yeah, he does an amazing job of, you can feel the baggage of all the horrible things he's done and probably still has in him deep down because that stuff never goes away.

It's not like, hey, I'm not an evil guy anymore.

Like at some point, you are who you are.

It's in your DNA.

And you could feel it in the DNA still with him.

And when he's torturing babe,

you can see there's 20% of him.

He's like, Oh man, I'm back!

Yeah, this is great.

Just fucking with people again.

I really miss this

Zelle in the Diamond District getting recognized,

Zell,

unreal, man.

The scene's just the best.

The guy, first, he's in there with the two guys,

and one of them's kind of like because he sees the

tattoo.

I know you

Perhaps you do.

I'm pretty good at faces myself.

I know this.

Christopher Hess, how do you do?

Christopher Hess, how do you do?

Wait, wait.

And everything.

I think.

One of them's kind of side-eyeing him a little bit, and we get a little wrist knife.

And it all leads to him opening the security deposit box.

and finding the diamonds, which is an awesome Olivier scene.

Yeah.

Just like,

I like the camera shot, too, of just him opening it.

It's also, it's great that this like incredibly evil person who you think has an ideology is just like a craven.

He's just greed.

You know, he just wants his money.

It's hard to identify with that theme now.

2025.

And then the showdown at the end would be the other one.

What do you have for most rewatchable?

I guess Is It Safe?

I mean, it's the most iconic scene from the film.

I happen to really love everything with Doc and Paris.

It's just so evocative and creepy.

It's like a whole other movie.

Chen and the stroller and the opera.

I love all that stuff, but Is It Safe is the most rewatchable scene?

What's the most 1976 thing about this movie?

What do you have?

I have OG Nazis still in the mix.

Yeah.

Walking and talking.

That's the answer.

I also have training for a marathon being a rogue thing.

Like, what are you doing?

Trying to run a marathon.

People are like, a marathon?

Yeah.

What's that?

It's 26.2 miles.

Can you smoke while you do that?

You run every day?

Nobody's chasing you.

You just run.

So you just run and then you finish running.

Yeah.

Then what do you do?

Another low-key 76 thing is just New York City 1976.

Yeah, the best movie location on the planet.

I also have a stealth gay subplot that can't really be addressed because of when they made the movie.

It's not super addressed in the novel.

Like they just acknowledge

Janey and Scylla are together, and that, but like it doesn't, and it certainly impacts like Jane Way's betrayal, but yeah, it's never explicit.

This was actually

pretty racy for 76.

And also, like, I think one of the first times I was like to my mom, I was like, What's going on?

And like, you know, I didn't, yeah, I was like 10 or whatever, 12.

Uh, what's the most 76 thing about this movie?

I also have diamonds being worth 15k a carrot, probably higher now, probably higher, yeah.

Creepy 70s everyone's up to something movies sure

and then uh my winner

mccarthyism victims as a crucial plot device yep you don't see this anymore no

be like if if one of our relatives was a mccarthyism victim and it would just come up on the rewatchables every once in a while give it give it time maybe we can come up with a new mccarthy yeah there might be a new ism

What stage the best?

I have a bunch.

What do you have?

first of all the location shooting in new york city and paris there's just no this is like the ultimate like you can't do new york and toronto you're like you can't do right like this stuff i love love love doc's death when he's like frankly i don't give a fuck

and it's outside they actually shot that in la Yeah and they so it's downtown LA it's like some skyscraper down there and I love the setting for that and it's that's like the peak creepy 70s conspiracy scene with like the red, the fountain through the glass.

What else do I have for what stage is the best?

It's always awesome to re-watch these conspiracy thrillers when you know the plot.

So you can go back and see Elsa the first time.

It's like, oh, so she was stalking him.

You know, like that stuff's great.

When a famous star is in a movie and dies way sooner than expected, JK, they call this the Janet Lay

from

Psycho.

But Scheider being in this movie, you just assume he's going to make it the whole way and then he's dead 40 minutes in.

Dentistry is torture.

It's torture anyway.

And this movie really embraced it, but it's a what stage the best.

Did this movie change your relationship to dentistry?

No, I disliked it.

Yeah.

Anyway, how about you?

It makes me

think that like my physical reaction to dentistry is just like alarm and I want to fly away.

Like I want to get away from it.

And this movie gives it like a horror, you know?

Yeah.

But I just don't like people in my mouth like tapping at things and scraping at things i'll do it gotta do it

divane saving babe but not really which i would call the fake out plot swerve

i always like when this happens in the movies where it seems like the guy is being saved or the girl but then they're just get pumping for information and then you circle back and it's like wait that's where we just let what oh this motherfucker such a distinctive uh street that babe runs down to get away yeah and you see the graffiti and when divane's car pulls past the graffiti again you're like no

and then he's like you killed them yeah you killed them

it's also a really good exposition dump because divane explains the whole diamond courier thing right to babe and then it's like oh but it doesn't matter because babe's going to get tortured right

i have anyone opening a safety deposit box in a movie i'm not not watching It doesn't matter what the movie is.

It could be freaking rom-com on Netflix watching my dad.

Yeah.

always good running on a highway ramp and doing the jump to the lower highway ramp which is also no way out

you got me every time

yeah nobody ever sprains an ankle breaks a tibia somehow the cab always is like no stop for this guy who looks like he's been tortured in his pajamas no car ever runs a person over

uh This is a good one for What's Age the Best.

When someone's random non-fight training comes in handy

in an action movie where it's like, oh, the marathoning.

Now it's going to pay off.

I'm just going to outrun these fucking guys.

Like, I'm in the boss of the marathon.

They just did that with the amateur.

Yeah.

It's a good movie.

I like the amateur.

I told my dad after I told, I texted two people after I saw the amateur, my dad and you.

And I told my dad, I'm like, better than a five o'clocker.

Maybe like a 6:30, 7 o'clocker.

But he watched it the next day.

He's like, really good.

Not a huge Rami Malik fan, but I really liked it.

Anyway, a couple more.

Marathon Man used the steady cam.

It was the third movie they used it.

Bound for Glory and Rocky also used it, but it was the first movie that came out they used it.

So we had that with this was released before.

And then Goldman had a whole thing about how Hoffman objected to having the flashlight next to him

when his brother shows up.

And

Chelesinger

convinced him.

And Goldman said it was because Hoffman didn't want to seem like he was chicken.

Right.

And this was a big Goldman thing in all his writings about how stars want to be perceived, which is so interesting.

Like they want to be the heroes.

And even though the babe is getting beaten on through this entire movie, he's like, no, no, I don't want him to be a pussy when he's in his apartment.

Yeah.

And meanwhile, it feels like he's half the movie.

He feels like a puss.

Last one.

William Devane's 1976 and 1977 two-year stretch.

He's in Family Plot, Hitchcock's last movie.

He's in Marathon, Man.

Bad News Bears 2, Breaking Training.

One of the great performances is Kelly League's dad.

One of the great, great, great sports dad coach performances.

Craig, check it out.

And then Rolling Thunder, your movie.

I love Rolling Thunder.

Those four out in a row.

It's incredible.

I love Devine.

You know, so I did some research because I was trying to figure out why he wasn't more popular.

Big stage guy.

Yeah, but also like he was JFK in the Missiles of October TV movie.

That was a huge huge movie with him and Martin Sheen on TV, like 74.

And he got kind of typecast as like the JFK guy.

Oh, interesting.

He was trying to break out of it.

I always thought he was really good.

He ended up on like Knott's Landing.

I also did a lot of Olivier research.

I forgot to mention about his, he was married three times.

Joan Plowray at the end, right?

Right.

But he was married to the gone with the wind lady.

Trivianly.

He got divorced.

because he started having an affair with her.

And then they ended up together and ended up doing a whole bunch of plays together.

But then, you know, occasionally she just would hook up with another guy that she was in a movie with.

And then he might do the same thing with an actress.

But then they would get back together.

Yeah.

And then she would go off again and have an affair with somebody else.

And it's just the way the 30s and 40s and 50s moved where people were like, yeah, I couldn't resist.

You have to go fuck him in my trailer.

Sorry.

And I don't know.

I don't know if it works that way.

It's funny to go back and watch Mad Men and just be like, how soon would the wife just be like, you're fucking out?

Right.

And I'm taking half of your money to Daundre for.

Yeah, it just wasn't like that back then.

Yeah, so anyway, our guy Build the Vein.

Great job by him.

What'd you have for Big Kahuna Burger Award, best use of food drink?

I got three things.

Okay.

One, the clove oil extract that they rub on the tooth.

Great.

Two, truffles on crut, which is what Doc tells Elsa to get at the restaurant.

But honestly, this movie gets the reverse kahuna.

You don't want to eat after seeing this movie.

Oh, because you have an exposed root in your teeth?

Yeah.

Great shot, Gordo.

So many.

I really like the shot of him opening the security deposit box.

I also like they have the in the water factory or whatever the fuck that is, that wide shot of the waterworks.

Yeah.

There's a wide shot of them kind of circling each other that I thought was really good, but there's a lot of good stuff in this.

So I have anything from Doc's Murder,

the Red Steps, the Fountain, that stuff.

Conrad Hall shot this.

He's one of my favorite cinematographers absolutely amazing i love the shot when doc is in paris and he walks out onto his balcony in paris and the cameras goes through another window and it extends out and then the eiffel tower's there i'm just like holy shit yeah this is incredible conrad's cooking yeah yeah and then my favorite might be just for absolute total creep is when Doc is coming out of the opera and the soccer ball rolls up to him and he's just like, and the woman is like his, partner has disappeared, and then just a soccer ball comes up, and he's like,

That's like a classic 1976 scene.

That's like a hard payoff.

Yeah, it's just like, why is this here?

Now it would be the conjuring

kid cutty pursuit of happiness award for best needle drop.

I think it's the opera with Olivier, yeah.

Although the score is just getting dressed, yeah,

like seeing the German newspapers, good like exposition in that scene.

It was like, all right,

this guy's creepy.

Chest Rockwell, Brock Landers Award, best character name.

Dr.

Christian Zell.

It's up there.

His flunkies being named Carl and Earhart are pretty good, though.

Yeah.

We'll take a break and then you got a flex category.

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All right, CR's choice, flex category.

What do you got?

When would I have died?

I was wondering if you're going to do this.

Probably in the bathtub.

I'm probably like, maybe I can just drown myself.

Like, I just don't want to experience this anymore.

I think I'd die in the bathroom as well.

Yeah.

Because you can't get out the window.

Maybe cut your wrists with like a razor or something like that.

I know it's morbid, but like if you knew on the other side, was it safe?

You're

cashing out.

No, I would also just have a heart attack when the dental tools got

revealed.

Yeah, dental tools and a German accent in 1977.

Did I just jab that out of my temple?

I have no answers.

Just kill me.

Right here.

Right here.

No, I don't know if it's safe.

Just honestly, I've never let me make it X.

I'm never going to love again after this.

So you can just take me out.

butch's girlfriend a word weak link of the film unfortunately for this one it's the the girlfriend so you don't like elsa

i just don't it's the weakest part of the film that uh

she's working for zelle the whole time so in the book she's very pleasant i don't think she's kind of up to stuff enough yeah And then I have no idea why we go to the farmhouse.

It's such a weird part of the movie.

I just don't get it.

In the book, you find out Elsa's working for Zelle

after the first meeting in the library.

So it's an interesting difference between the novel and the screenplay where in the novel, you're like the whole time, you're like, Elsa's bad, Elsa's bad.

When Doc figures it out at lunch, you're like, oh, interesting.

But in the movie, it kind of comes out of nowhere when it's like, not only like, yeah, I've like been working for Zelle this whole time.

I think she's good, especially to be like a German who could pass for Swiss, speak some French, that kind of thing.

She's pretty.

I don't know what a Swiss accent sounds like, but she sounds German the whole time.

Yeah.

I have no idea why we go to the farmhouse.

I just don't understand it.

I think he's supposed to be basically incapacitated.

In the book, it's like she shows up because he's like, go get a car and meet me at this drugstore.

And she's like, I got the car.

And the guy whose car it is, this neighbor of mine has

a house upstate.

We'll go there.

I get it.

It just feels like they wanted to get out of New York City for a couple scenes.

Yeah.

But I just would have not done that at all.

And I would have spent more time with Royce Shatter because we could talk about this.

Isn't what stage the worst?

I'll just do it now.

But an eight and a half minute sequence was shot of Doc fighting with some guys who killed a spy colleague.

That's a huge part of the book.

And

Goldman thought it got cut because of the violence because they cut down the

Is It Safe Scene 2?

And the Shider death.

And the Shider death.

Because he basically gets disemboweled when he gets.

So

they did a lot of stuff based on this one previous screening they had where everybody thought it was too violent.

And

Goldman said, we've rushed Shider.

He's coming off Jaws.

This was a big part of the reason why he took this role.

And we cut that scene.

But now we're adding eight minutes of the farmhouse for no reason at all.

And the whole thing is, I'd say, it's my one thing that every time I watch this movie, I'm like, God damn it.

And then he could just get away, but he's like, come on in, three.

evil guys and let's talk this out.

It's like, I just don't understand any of it.

I would also say that, uh,

especially on repeat viewings, I don't love the flashbacks to his childhood.

There's nothing in there other than babe being there when his dad kills himself that I didn't know from the movie itself and that you can't intuit from the movie itself.

And the movie doesn't go into depth about so many things like Janeway and Doc's relationship and all this other stuff, but like we get like five cutaways to childhood.

It feels like they were really really trying to stay faithful to the book.

Yeah, but that's not really even in the book.

I mean, they talk about the dad in the book, but there's not like he's like always thinking.

I don't know.

I thought it was like, it's not something that worked for me on this, on this run through.

Moore would say it's the worst.

Stalking a girl home for the first date.

Oh, 76.

Yeah.

It drives me absolutely fucking bonkers that Babe doesn't keep the diamonds and the money.

I just hate that in every movie where somebody's like, you know what?

Morally, I can't do it.

It's like, just fucking fucking take the diamonds.

What are you doing?

Take, there's just cash.

Just grab it.

What are you doing?

You're too good to put some cash in your pocket.

Yeah.

Just get disguised.

Your apartment is looking good right now.

By the way, you need some dental work.

Maybe the cash can go to the bank.

And you let Melendez take your television.

Right.

You have no apartment.

Your family's dead.

Maybe take the diamonds.

I don't know.

And then what's age to worst just the concept of Nazi criminals in a movie?

Because in 2025, they wouldn't exist.

Yeah.

So it's aged the worst.

What else do you have?

The way Babe's apartment must have smelled because he's coming back from long distance running training.

Smells like a hockey locker room.

Wearing full sweatsuit of like old school Russell athletic sweats.

Yeah.

Basically wearing Adidas, old Adidas running shoes.

Then he strips down, sweating his balls off, and he starts reading history textbooks.

Yeah.

Can you imagine?

Not a lot of natural light coming in there.

Probably some fungus.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Good call.

Yeah.

The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford.

Hottest take a word.

We kind of alluded to this earlier.

I would rather have Roy Scheider's 1970s than Dustin Hoffman's 1970s.

Schider's highlights for the 70s are Klute, French Connection, 7-ups, Jaws, Marathon, Man, Sorcerer, Jaws 2, all that jazz.

Listen,

I'm on Schider Island.

I've been there the whole time.

Hoffman goes little big frush.

Happy on Lenny, all the president's men, straight time Kramer was Kramer.

I'll take Scheider.

I would take him over Hackman.

He just gets...

I remember asking Goldman about this once because he loved Scheider.

We might have even talked about this on one of the other re-watchables.

I was like, what was he missing?

And he's like, I don't know.

You know, he didn't age that great.

By the time we get to the 80s.

Yeah, when he's in 2010,

he's looking pretty good.

Yeah, my guess is there were a lot of cigarettes.

So I don't don't think he aged in a classic way, but I always thought he was amazing.

I think he's amazing in jaws.

I don't get it.

Yeah, it's like when you, he's like William Holden, where you're like, are you 39 or 60?

I don't, how old is he in this movie?

I have no idea.

Yeah.

My hottest take.

It's a two-parter.

I think if you're making this in 1976, if we could do it over again, it's a better Harrison Ford part.

He's young.

He hasn't been been in Star Wars yet.

I think he's been in American Graffiti.

He's got the size from the book.

I would have believed him as a runner.

Nobody's better than Harrison Ford if people are coming after him.

A little more handsome.

I could believe the Elsa thing more.

I just think it's, I think it's a better movie.

Yeah, so this is pre-Raiders, so you wouldn't associate him with being like, oh, this guy's going to kick Zell's ass.

Yeah.

It's not like that.

You're right.

He's a great, great.

But in 1984,

this is an epic Tom Cruise part.

This is TC all the way.

This is TC fucking, he gets to run.

He gets to pretend he knows a lot about history.

He gets to torture.

Yeah, he gets to seduce a hot foreign lady.

He gets to run again.

He gets to run a third time.

He gets to freak out.

Yeah.

He probably watched Marathon, man, like, fuck.

I mean, I'm sure.

I'm surprised he doesn't remake it now.

Yeah.

It's the most cruisiest part that's not a cruise movie.

Casting widifs.

so when Olivia had health problems, they had Richard Woodmark in the bullpen, which I kind of like, yeah, warming up.

And then, uh,

this is a tough one for both of us.

Um, Selesinger wanted Charlotte Rampling for Elsa, couldn't get her,

settled on Martha Keller, Marthy Keller, Mart, Mart Keller, yeah, according to Robert Evans.

The new international as you do, Mart Keller, you're gonna love it.

Charlotte Rampling in this movie.

It would have been illegal.

Also,

how many times can Charlotte Rampling double-cross our guys?

You know, if she did this in marathon and then did the verdict?

I don't.

Now I'm happy to go to the

upstate New York for eight minutes with Charlotte.

Yeah, let's go check out that house.

Anywhere else we want to go?

Want to go rapple picking?

Yeah.

Yeah, she's definitely smoking.

I could totally believe the double cross in a completely different way.

I don't know.

The other person I saw in my research was Julie Christie, which I suppose I'd bring up just because in Super 70s, we are yeah, the double cross for her.

I'm not buying as much, yeah.

I have that in Recasting Couch Director City, too.

Charlotte Rampling is also, yeah, just like no question, best.

That guy.

Well, we have a runner-up,

Carlos Mendez from the Miami Vice Calderon's revenge episode.

He plays millennia when Tubbs hits the glass glass

at the beginning of the part two.

Yeah.

And Philip Michael Thomas is like, come on, Mendez, you got to talk.

Sucker.

He's doing that whole thing.

He's in this movie.

He's the guy that Hoffman asked to rob his place.

It's creepy.

It's creepy.

But that's not the winner.

No.

Because our winner is, of course, Al Neary from the Godfather.

Richard Bright's in this movie.

Richard Bright.

Hands down.

So

Ianna, for for some reason, I'd never gone to his IMDb before and didn't realize he was the dad in Beautiful Girls.

No.

He was Timothy Hutton's dad in Beautiful Girls.

Are you serious?

Yeah, that's Al Neary from The Godfather.

Oh, God.

I guess I have to go back and watch Beautiful Girls.

He was the dad of Timothy Hutton and David Arquette.

I got to go take a shit.

Those are his three biggest parts.

Richard Bright.

So he plays Al Neary in one and two, by the way.

And he can play Italian-American heavy and German heavy.

Nobody ever did more with a blank face.

Yeah, he's got like two lines across three movies there.

Yeah.

When Michael looks at him at the mom's funeral

after he's like pretending he's getting back to the freighter and he just kind of looks at Al and Al's like, all right, time to go fishing.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

I got you.

Don't worry.

Got it.

Deion Wader's award.

Scheider?

I think he's in too much.

I have Devane in there, but i'm gonna go with uh lada palfi andor as

oh that's it yeah

that's a good one

craig's choice flex category for craig what do you got craig um

i did my hot take is that babe was just kind of dumb

um he was mugged by two guys in three piece suits and fedoras and just didn't think that was weird Yeah, true.

He was like, oh, I got mugged.

And they're like, oh, like, what did he look like?

And they're like, oh, like two like, you know, hoodlums.

And he's like, no, they were two 50-year-old men in suits.

And he was like, oh, that feels kind of weird.

Yeah.

He also, his brother, who was murdered, and then, and then he was tortured by a German man named Zell.

And his brother was like, hey, I just outed your girlfriend for being a closeted German.

Yeah.

Didn't think anything of that, just kind of kept plowing right forward with her and still thought she was totally innocent up until they got to the house.

And then

I just, I thought it was a weak move that he just couldn't pull the trigger on Zelle at the end.

What are we doing?

He couldn't shoot him?

In the book, he does.

He just fucking guns him down.

Yeah.

I don't understand the character choice of him not shooting.

It's a weird.

I would say there's two things that happen.

Because he shoots people right before it up in St.

Michael.

And in the book, he shoots Elsa, too, right?

Like, he guns down Elsa.

It's much more death wish at the end of the book.

Because he shoots Devane in the house.

And then 20 minutes later, he can't shoot Zelle?

It's absurd.

I thought it was very bizarre.

The ending was rewritten by Robert Towne, as C.R.

said, because Hoffman apparently didn't like it.

Goldman thought it was a piece of shit.

It drove him crazy.

He couldn't believe it.

In the novel, Babe leads Zelle to Central Park,

shoots him multiple times while lecturing him, kills him, throws the diamonds away and is led away by the police.

Yeah, I just don't, I don't know the lead up with Babe.

I mean, he's clearly capable and willing to kill.

Well, goldman's up in the sky thanking us that we have craig i can't believe tibbs got fired

at the eastern finals wait can i add one more question yeah so a lot of the movies in the 70s 80s but i think it starts to get better in the 80s i personally at home have trouble hearing what the people are saying Do you have trouble like just the sound mixing?

Oh, well, I think that they do a lot of stuff, especially in these 70s movies where they've ADR'd stuff where it's like, so you're seeing something that you should not be able to like, like it'll be a character across the street in a diner through a window and you can hear it as if they're whispering in your ear.

So it's just a style.

Altman did this a lot with like a lot of his layering of sound that is just unconventional for our modern like cinematic appetite.

I am very anti-closed captioning.

I don't, I don't support it, but I had a really hard time just understanding also the accents.

I had like genuinely very difficult time understanding what they were saying.

So I had to turn them on.

And I was just wondering if that was the case like in the theaters theaters in the 70s, if it was muddled because sound mixing wasn't as good, or if that's the way it's translated to our TVs now.

Yeah, I would say sound mixing is too good now.

Yeah.

The sound is translated.

So it's probably picking up stuff from the print that wasn't even intended to really be heard.

And I just think that they would do stuff with sound that was just way different.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you guys don't do things where you're like, oh, like visually, I'm so far away from this person.

Yeah.

It almost feels weird that I can hear them mumbling to someone next to them.

Yeah.

Cause there's some under-the-breath conversations and really pivotal moments.

And I'm like, I don't know what they're saying.

Yeah.

Do you guys watch movies and TV with closed captioning?

I try not to.

I find it's really distracting.

Yeah.

And sometimes the line comes up, the words come up before the person says it.

I do.

I had to use some closed captioning for Seagal when he was trying to do his Italian accent and out for justice.

That was the last time I used it.

Half-Fast Earning Research.

So in the novel, we said Jane Wayne and Doc are lovers.

So, Doc's in Paris and he calls Jane Wayne on the phone.

He says, Janie, I miss you.

Get your ass over here.

And that's kind of the only way they allude to it.

It's definitely more subtle in the book.

It's a weird one, though.

I didn't

even notice that in the movie until I reread it in the book a few years ago.

Yeah.

And it was like, Well, because in the beginning, you're like, oh, is he talking to a woman named Janie?

Yeah, like you're just, is you got a girlfriend somewhere.

So the

marathon runner shown in flashbacks is Adebikila, Bikila, who won the 1960 Olympic marathon

and ran barefoot for Ethiopia.

Yeah.

No, no shoes.

The barefoot athletes have really gone out the window in the last 20 years.

We had barefoot kicked it all the way through like the 90s.

Solar bud.

Yeah.

We both had Tony Franklin on our team as Phil Go Kicker.

Just such a weird era that people are like, you know what?

I'm better off without the sneaker.

Playing in the NFL.

Pure feel.

I know.

Like, Craig, that has to be top five weirdest things for you about sports in the 80s.

What do you mean they were, they were barefoot kickers in the 80s?

They were like literally barefoot.

Yeah, they wouldn't wear a soccer cleave.

And what, what year are we talking about?

We're talking like 80s.

Yeah.

The Patriots had Tony Franklin in the, I think, in the Super Bowl season or around that.

He was out there with just no shoes or socks, just barefoot?

No, they'd have the, the weirdest thing is they'd have the left shoe in the sneaker, and then the barefoot on the right.

Because the plant foot you want with the shoe, yeah, for the snow.

But then you get pure feel, I get it on the inside of the what's funny is you go back and you look at all the feel

stats, and people are like 54 percent.

Yeah, they're they're like, and they're like, I need

the feel of this, like, how long is this?

36 yards, you needed sneakers, sneakers better, broken toes off

and right.

Um, Goldman wrote a screenplay called Brothers,

and uh,

I guess kind of a sequel, but uh,

not considered one of his better books.

A sequel to this?

Yeah.

It's called Brothers.

Is it a prequel about Babe and Doc or what is it?

It's,

I don't really know.

Unproduced?

I know that it's not well liked.

Okay.

Yeah.

Apex Mountain.

Hoffman.

I think it's Kramer versus Kramer.

Oh, I think it's this year.

I think it's Marathon and 70.

It's 76.

It's Marathon Man and All the Presidents Men in one year.

I think it's Kramer versus Kramer.

Okay.

We'll agree to disagree.

Dentistry?

Yeah.

Dentistry is a movie device.

Little shop of horrors in this.

Yeah.

Scheider.

It's around it.

I mean, I would say it's Jaws.

Yeah.

Devane, it's definitely bad news bears breaking training, figuring out how to back Kelly Leak five times in three innings in the Astrodome.

Still don't know how he did it.

We're definitely doing that on the rewatchables at some point.

Kelly Leak just keeps...

Craig, you haven't seen that one, right?

No.

Oh, man, you're going to love it.

A lot of lineup lineup chicanery in the big game.

Uh, torture scenes,

I think this might be the most famous one.

If it's not, it's up there,

it's top three.

What do you think?

What's the most famous torture scene for your generation?

Oh, wow.

I well, I would say the first thing that comes to mind.

This is the end, Casino Royale's like the getting hit in the balls, the thing that swings.

Oh, Casino Royale,

that one's really that's a really good one.

Um,

Yeah, I mean, Hope is bad.

Oh, yeah.

Reservoir Dogs.

Reservoir Dogs of the Ear.

Yeah, we probably should have picked.

Maybe we should have said non-Tarantino torture scenes.

Livier, no way.

Goldman's in the running because he has this and all the president's men in 36.

He wins the Oscar.

He has a book thing.

His price is now.

He's the biggest price of any screen reader.

I think this might be it.

Mark Keller?

I think so.

She's in Black Sunday, right?

Black Sunday, Bobby Deerfield.

It's a movie called Fedora.

And then

that was it for her.

She's a big star.

Schlesinger?

Midnight Cowboy because it won the Oscar.

I'm walking here.

Jewish revenge movies.

Bastards.

Yeah,

it's bastards.

Yeah, it's close, though.

Evil Nazi characters.

It's this.

It's the guy who Waltz in Raiders, and it's

Christoph Waltz.

We also have the good Nazi in victory.

He just wanted some good soccer.

That's true.

Yeah, just needed a

break from the horrible war.

Just wanted to get good.

We're not so different, you and I.

Yeah.

Do you guys see the bicycle kick?

Yeah.

I know we're all Nazis, but you have to appreciate the artistry of that.

And then Diamond District scenes in a movie.

It's this or uncut gems.

I think it's this.

I think it's this.

Yeah.

Well, this is the easiest Cruiser Hanks we've ever had.

It's cruising a walk.

This is such a cruise part.

Yeah.

Hanks maybe is the shider part, but maybe.

Yeah.

But not as good as Cruise.

Spielberg or Scorsese?

This is a hard one because Scorsese is the consummate New York director, but nobody does Jewish Revenge like Spielberg.

Has to be Spielberg.

Who does Philip Seymour often play?

Jane Way,

the vane character i had that as well picking nets why did william devane tell babe the entire zell story as he's just driving around so they'll end up at the same spot that's a classic the screenwriter wants oh i think it makes information out there it it's both it's an exposition dump that does make sense he's basically doing

it's a it's an extended version of like cutting into someone and then giving them clove water he's like luring him into a false input

and now he's like i'm bringing you in i'm telling you what your brother did.

Now you're going to tell me what you said to you.

But

yeah.

So I go to Craig.

I'm like, so we're teaming up with Portnoy.

Anyways, he reached out to you.

Why did Zelle go to the Diamond District first?

To find out about the carrot prices, whatever he was doing before he was going to be able to do it.

Yeah, he was going to get like a market setting price on a carrot.

He's no henchmen left at that point.

Well,

they've gone up to the lake house.

They've gone up to the country.

Nobody else.

Nobody else got Nazi slack.

When you're one of the most wild.

You don't need somebody to go to the district.

I think when you've got yourself on like every wanted list in the Western world, like your circle's pretty tight.

Do you think he disguised himself enough?

No.

Like he just shaved the top of his head.

He could have done a little more, I think.

Yeah.

Maybe grow some facial hair, change the glasses, put a hat on, maybe put on a like a thurmon munson jersey

yeah dress like a yankee fan

that'd be funny if it's wearing a yankee hat with a munson jersey and like blue jeans yeah you can't fucking get a load out of these fucking guys

we got a son reggie jackson um And then why do we have the drive to upstate New York, which we already talked about?

Any other nitpicks for you?

You got them all except for when Dustin Hoffman is running to the drugstore to meet Mark.

In the background,

the movie Marquis Playing Jaws, which breaks the Roy Schneider fantasy reality.

Yeah, but across the streams.

Yeah.

I have one more.

I admittedly don't know quite enough about jogging.

I've never been a jogger.

Hoffman's jogging to me seems a little lurchy.

And I didn't feel like he had...

I know they said he worked on it every day.

He ran four miles.

But that's crucial.

He's running four miles, not a marathon.

marathon and i feel like he was a little bit like like when the guy who passes him at the reservoir runs by him and then he's like speeding up it's kind of like all right but you're running a marathon you would have to be like really pacing yourself here

did you like his stride though i mean it's the 70s i i haven't crushed a lot of pre-fontaine tape so i don't know what it really looks like

Somebody who's running that much, and this is like my thing is I run every day.

Yeah.

I just want them, I want more efficient.

Those guys, those guys and ladies, they glide.

Yeah, he's running like the way his character is.

Like, he's running, like, I don't know.

It just didn't totally work for me.

Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast or untouchable.

I know we said Prestige TV.

Can I

test drive a Zell prequel?

You're going to test drive by casting a fishing hook?

Just a Zelle prequel?

Uh-huh.

Not a lot of laughs in that one.

No, but like him trying to get to South America.

Getting out of Germany.

Yeah.

So

Zelle is your protagonist, or are we with someone hunting Zelle who's trying to kill you?

No, we're hunting Zelle.

Okay.

We're trying to find Zelle before he gets to Argentina.

Yes.

I think you're not watching that.

Sure.

Okay.

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treyo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley in the firm.

I think it's got to be.

I said, is it safe?

English motherfucker, do you speak it?

Say what again.

I dare you.

I double dare you.

Now, is it safe?

That's a good one.

Yeah.

I think it would be too problematic for Wayne to chime in here.

God damn, Christian.

It's so funny you did, Sam, because I was going to to do Stephen A.

Christian Zell's asking me if it's safe.

He's asking me because I'm going to be here a long time after Christian Zell.

A long time.

Is Christian Zell an underachiever?

Christian Zell, maybe you should worry about getting those diamonds for asking me if it's safe, okay?

But then we find out Stephen A was playing solitaire while Mary Von Man was on.

I can't wait till the expose about you comes out where it's just like you're supposed to be watching, you know, having good weight, but you're actually playing.

You're doing fantasy leaks the entire time.

Do we know when he was playing Solitaire?

Apparently it was during a meaningful moment in the game.

But I have not been tracking this story very closely.

I'm sorry.

I'm not there to judge.

I'm there studying the OKC body language like I'm like a detective looking at a police lineup.

I'm just watching everybody.

Chit looks unhappy.

What's going on there?

Just one Oscar, who gets it?

Conrad Hall.

Oh.

So this is

love this guy.

Shot Butch Cassidy, Cool Ham Luke, in Cold Blood, Marathon Man, Road to Perdition, and American Beauty.

So his career stretches across from the 50s to the 90s.

And I just think that this is one of the most extraordinary portraits of New York City.

I mean, it's so incredible what he does.

I was going to go with Olivier, but you made a good case.

Probably unanswerable questions.

What kind of dental work was Babe looking at next six months there?

And what's the conversation like with the dentist?

Well, first of all, Babe's got to go under general anesthesia to get dental work done.

Like, there's no way he's conscious at all for it, right?

I mean, he has an exposed nerve for the last hour of this movie.

Yeah.

Got to get that fixed, I would say, pretty soon.

The movie never really goes into how he eats with the fucked up tooth.

This would be a good sequel.

Babe's Dental Dream.

What does he go in?

Like the dental assistant comes in.

He's like, hey, babe, how are you?

I'm Jenny.

Yeah.

Hey, how are you?

So what are you in for today?

So there's this evil Nazi.

Have you heard of him, the vice angel?

Yeah, Zelle.

Yeah.

You know, the angel of death.

And he was trying to get me to tell him information and he drilled a hole.

And now I have an exposed nerve in my, there's two short hair, the one that's black.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I was going to try to get that fixed.

I don't know.

Probably a fake tooth.

Yeah.

Probably pulling that.

I would need heroin the next time I went to a dentist's office.

Other unanswerables?

Anything?

The only one I had was, did this movie invent the trend of British actors playing super villains in Hollywood movies?

Oh.

So Hopkins, Dewey Lecter, Alan Rickman, and Die Hard.

Like, is there...

I could probably answer this question, but I didn't see any earlier evidence of it.

It's a good one.

I was trying to think unanswerable.

Is Babe's apartment ever rented again?

There's a chalk outline in the living room.

The bathroom's been demolished.

79 years ago.

It smells like a hockey locker room.

When I first moved to New York in 2000, there was a hole in my floor that the landlord was like, I'll get to that.

And it was like, as big as this table.

He was like, you're just going to want to walk around that.

Yeah.

Really?

Yeah.

Like, how deep was the hole?

Well, it was,

it was deep.

And it was, it was not, it was, there was something underneath where it wasn't going down into the next apartment.

But he was like, I'm going to fix that before you move in and didn't.

Jesus.

Yeah.

And then it's too late.

I was living there.

This would be a good podcast.

My first New York City apartment.

Oh, I got a great one.

Yeah.

Do you?

Oh, yeah.

My, my New York apartment was fucking terrible.

We used, uh, you couldn't even get to the toilet without, like, you had to like turn sideways and shimmy past the shower because the walkway was so narrow.

Oh, yeah.

It was like one foot wide.

And then our whole ceiling was completely sunken in.

There was like all this leakage and the ceiling looked like a concave.

Where was it?

It was in Prospect Crown Heights-ish.

Okay.

Yeah.

New York's hilarious because everybody who lives there, they're always like, yeah, the first apartment I lived in, we just had an open sewage pipe that just spewed sewage.

It was great.

So we lived there for a year.

I met my wife there.

It's great.

He's kind of worked around it.

What piece of memorability would you want want or not want from this movie?

I'm going to go with the rarely seen not.

Yeah.

The drill

from Zelle.

That's just a weird thing to have.

You're like, hey, come into my library.

I have the drill from Marathon Man.

I guess it would be pretty antisocial, but the one piece of memorability I did want was the wrist knife.

Oh, that's a really good one.

That's a pretty cool party trick.

But I would not want any of Babe's running clothes.

Yeah.

I'm good.

Is there like historical accuracy to that?

His like concealed knife thing, or is that kind of a just like a movie trip?

I feel like the people's 60s and 70s were full of knives in cool places.

Okay, so it was it was a big metal bracelet that was immediately conspicuous.

You'd be like, what the fuck is that?

And then he had some button that just a knife shot at him.

It's also like in the, it's so incredible in the 70s where they're like, thank you for flying from Paraguay to America or Uruguay to America.

Yeah.

Get your own bags.

We're good.

Right.

Strike.

Yeah, true.

And your Nazi henchman can meet you at the gate.

That would have been good for unanswerable questions.

Was there actually a bag of strike?

Well, also, would TSI

true.

Coach Finstock Award, best life lesson.

Don't trust the Nazis.

At the end of it, if you kill the Nazi dentist, take his diamonds.

You earned it.

Yeah, take the diamonds.

It's okay.

Put Put them in your pocket.

Best double feature choice.

You could go boys from Brazil and go Olivia.

That's good.

Other side.

I like that.

Uncut gems if you want to go diamond district again.

Munich.

Munich's a good one.

Interesting element to this.

Would that be a weird rewatchables choice?

Munich and Lincoln are the two late period Spielberg ones that I was like, I really want to do these.

I didn't like Munich at all when I first saw it.

And about 10 years ago, it kind of broke me.

yeah

now i'm like municip do you ever watch lincoln you really want to you want to do this to get some

summer daniel day yeah

if the celtics don't trade jalen brown before july 1st i'll watch i'll watch lincoln again

i'm really worried they're going to trade jalen brown i love that guy you're in such a tender place i really am I don't want them to trade anybody.

Yeah.

Why can't they make the Eastern Finals next year without Tatum?

It's entirely possible.

Indiana made the Eastern Finals.

They have Miles Turner's 2 for 10 every game, and they have Nemhard playing 40 minutes a game.

Obi Toppin plays real messages.

Trust me, I think about this every time I watch them, but I'm just like, guess the process was for nothing.

Right.

Turns out we would have been fine.

I mean, shit.

You might be able to take Con Knipple with the third pick.

You're not taking Con Knipple with the third pick.

Relax.

I do like Khan Knipple.

No.

Who do you want with the third pick?

I think you have to take Trey or Ace at third, but I like Edgecombe the most.

I just wish we could get down to like five or six and take Edgecombe and get something else.

We'll talk about it after the podcast.

Who won the movie?

It's a really tough one.

For me, it's Olivier.

Because

I'm going to go with Olivier as well.

Because I don't have the entry to modern movies that he made because he had, you know, he basically

got a 30s, 40s, incredible baton pass of like an older style of acting to a new style of acting.

Yeah.

So I think that that's that's I think it's so cool that he's in this.

And just in general, when somebody parachutes into a movie, that's a super crazy famous act, respected actor.

And does something like this.

Yeah.

It's a brave, it's a brave performance.

All right, Craig, what do you got?

I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Just a wonderful, incredibly suspense

thriller, old school thriller.

It's interesting that the number one takeaway I had was that I actually kind of didn't know what was going on in this movie for like the first whole hour.

Yeah.

Like I was just kind of genuinely confused.

In the book itself, you don't know Doc and Scylla, which is his code name, are the same person until Doc dies.

Yeah, I just think that's a symptom of like today.

They would never do this today.

Doc would have probably died 20 minutes into the movie.

He dies, I think, 60 minutes into this movie.

And then you get the

William Devane.

monologue like 70 minutes in and that's when you start to like at least for me figure out what's going on especially me being you know so far removed from this era not really knowing a ton about it.

I was just, it was, it was just a very unique feeling that you don't have anymore.

There are little clues that you get when you watch it over and over.

Sure, I'm sure going back now, but in the moment, I'm just trying to like take in each scene.

When Zell's brother leaves the bank the first time,

and he passes off the little case, the band-aid case, Doc has that in Paris.

Oh.

So like you kind of like start to get clued into kind of sort of what he's doing.

But yeah, you're right.

Like you really don't know what's going on until the bean.

And I kind of enjoyed that.

I mean, again, it wouldn't work now because if this were on Netflix, people would turn it off because they'd be confused.

But if you know you have to, like having to watch this movie and knowing like, I will finish this no matter what, it's the payoff is just so much better having to build up this like, you know, this, this, uh, all these things and figure out, figuring out how to put them together.

And then, oh, an hour in, you're like, oh, wait.

Okay, I'm starting to piece this together and see where things are going.

It's much more fulfilling.

It's also pretty cool because like, you know, you're going along watching Zell come back back to New York, but you're kind of like, I don't really, like, what's this guy capable of?

Totally.

And then when he gets, gets in that room, you're like, oh my God.

And that, yeah, I think the Diamond District scene is by far my favorite scene.

I think that was like incredibly,

it just landed so hard.

Yeah, it's so disturbing.

I also like that there's another issue with movies now.

I've never seen the amateur, but if I had to guess, I bet you the villain in the amateur is some like rogue foreign CIA operative.

And I always like when movies have real villains from real life that you can actually get behind.

And it's not like the faceless Top Gun Maverick shit.

Yeah.

It's a good call.

I think you made a key Netflix point.

The movie's so complicated in the first hour, people just flip right over to Love Island.

Yeah.

They're like, I'm out.

No shot.

Yeah.

No shot.

You have to almost have a captive audience.

Love Island.

They switch partners.

Got to see what happened there.

I'm glad you liked it, Craig.

Oh, it was great.

It was written by our guy, Goldman.

All right, that's it for New York City Month.

It is?

I thought we have more.

No, we have two more left.

Yeah.

We think we took two of this installment.

That's it for New York City.

This installment of New York City Month.

We think there's a chance next week is the 400th Rewatchables episode.

Yeah.

Not positive.

It gets weird because

we did like six testers on the BS feed.

We did six sports movie kind of Hall of Famers that were little test cases for rewatchables.

But then when we launched the feed, we put those on the rewatchables feed.

But I think if we're actually talking about true rewatchables,

and you include the first heat, too, which we didn't do,

I think this might be the 400th official rewatchables episode next week.

Okay.

But we're not celebrating that like an anniversary because when we get to 400 movies, this was 387,

including Miami Vice, Calderon's Revenge, which was not a, which is a TV movie, but we're still counting it.

So 400, 400 movies will be the one that I think we care about.

Okay, right.

Yeah, let me know.

You like mejitos,

and we're doing you, me, and Van are doing Miami Vice Live this summer.

Please,

I'm just, it just gets better every week.

I can't, I can't re-watch it too many times before that, so just let me know because otherwise, I'll just start watching Miami Vice.

You'll just be like, in a Andy will be like, What did you watch this week?

And I'll be like, Miami Vice.

That's it.

I show, I I told you, I showed Ben

the entire stretch from when

he takes, what's her name?

What's the actress's name?

Gong Li.

Gong Lee.

When he's like, do you want to get a drink?

And she's like, I know a place.

Do you like Mojitos?

I'm a fiend for mojitos.

Or what do you like to drink?

I'm a fiend for mojitos.

And then they're just on a speedboat going to Cuba.

So I showed Ben and Ben was just like, what?

How far is Cuba from Miami?

He was just so confused.

It's amazing.

All right, at some point, yeah,

that'll be an LA

live show.

Not a Miami live show.

We have to go to Seattle at some point soon because there's a lot of Sonic stuff going on with them and they want us to come.

They're trying to bring back the Sonics and get the expansion team.

Seattle loves us.

We have to go do a live rewatch.

The recent Seattle.

Yeah.

And then Indianapolis, which I had a great time,

clamoring for rewatchables at some point.

We should have saved breaking away for them.

Yeah, we should have.

Did you go to St.

Elmo?

I did.

How did you, did you enjoy the shrimp cocktail?

Are you a shrimp cocktail fan?

It's fine.

Well, we're not going to Indianapolis anymore.

No, they know.

It's basically the cocktail sauce is the draw.

Well, it's a horseradish.

It's like the cocktails.

If they put a ton of horseradish in it, but it's like, you know, you could do that right here.

I've never been.

to Indianapolis.

Okay.

It's fine.

I love Indianapolis though.

All right.

Next week, the 400th episode, but we're not going to celebrate New York City Month.

Are you on next week?

Yeah, you're on next week.

Are you going to announce the movie or no?

Tell them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They've already seen it.

If people made it 97 minutes in, they deserve it.

All right.

It's Die Hard with a Vengeance.

Yeah.

DH with a V.

Yeah.

That's next week.

DHV.

Thanks, guys.

Thanks to Craig and thanks to Jack.

And Ronic.

And Ronnick.