‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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The Rewatchables brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network.

You can get this podcast as a video on Spotify.

I would highly encourage you to do so.

You can also go on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel and see a bunch of old rewatchables that we've done, including ones with Kyle Brandt, who's here today.

Val Kilmer passed away.

We're going to talk about one of our favorite Val Kilmer movies.

Not a movie you probably expected.

The saint, it's next.

For an American scientist caught in a world of espionage, there is no escape.

Brinka to life.

And now,

the man who was hired to betray her, Aminstonesmoll, dog of Christophe Martinez Porrez, is the only one who can save her.

If you want to live, you have to leave my side.

Val Kilmer, Elizabeth Shu,

the saint.

It starts Friday, April 4th, everywhere.

All right, Kyle Brandt.

You're basically, you were kind of semi-off this week.

Kids were off from school.

Wasn't really a rewatchables taping week for you,

but you had to move stuff around because Val Kilmer passed away this week.

People, I don't, I don't think it was a massive surprise because he'd been sick for a long time, yet it was a total surprise because Val Kilmer is no longer with us.

And we were texting.

We had talked about doing the Saint Forever, which I don't think would crack most people's top five Val Kilmer list, but for us, it does.

And we'll get to that in a second.

But Val Kilmer, big picture, 20,000 feet overhead.

What are your thoughts?

Yeah, I've been really moved by this, more so than I even expected to be over the last 48 hours.

I've been upset.

I've been on our show, Good Morning Football, talking about it as much as the NFL will allow me to just talk about an actor and not

Cam Ward or Shadur Sanders.

And I think I'm a little surprised how upsetting it was because

this is not Tom Cruise or Harrison Ford or Tom Hanks.

It's not one of these all-time leading man legends.

It's just someone who has shown up in our lives for years and years and was always cool.

And I'm looking at him, Bill, it's like we lost.

the coolest character actor of all time.

And that I think really was what he was.

And that's really his legacy.

Looked like a leading man, had the talent of a leading man, but was better off playing bass instead of being the lead singer.

Yeah, it's weird because he could vacillate.

He could lead a movie and be on a poster, right?

He could be on Batman.

He could be in the Saint, he could be in the doors.

But usually there was some sort of gimmick that came with it.

And he was really at his best at a movie like Heat.

I always felt like if you're thinking of him like an athlete, you think of like Randy Moss, somebody like that, that Randy Moss could be on the wrong team and go 4-12 on the Oakland Raiders, or you could put him on an awesome team with weapons everywhere.

Yes.

And then everybody's like, oh my God, Randy Moss is amazing.

And there's other actors like this.

I think there's a Brad Pitt case a little bit too, where he's just way more fun in movies like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

But with Kilmer, I thought, what was so weird about him?

Super handsome.

Yeah.

Like anyone I've ever dated has loved Val Kilmer.

So he had that.

But really quirky and just kind of hard to put a finger on.

And I think that's what, so like Heat, I don't really know what he's doing in that part.

I just know I like it.

The Saint, I'm not even sure he's good in The Saint, but there's something compelling about watching him the entire time.

And then there's other movies like The Doors and, you know, some of the other Tombstone, the classics that he's been in, where you're just like, God damn, this guy's great.

Top Gun comes in just like all-time Dean Waiters every time he's in.

So he could do everything.

And yet, you're right.

It wasn't like the type of career of a cruise cruise or some of these other dudes that could just go for 35 years.

There was a shelf life to it.

Definitely.

And, you know, to continue the Randy Moss comparison, he, he, at the end of his career, before he got really sick, it was Randy Moss on the 49ers and then the Titans.

And it just wasn't happening anymore.

But I think also part of his legacy is like, go to anybody and say, what's your favorite Val Kilmer role?

Or, you know what?

What's your favorite three Val Kilmer roles?

I bet he's not the lead in any of those movies.

I bet he's not.

It's like his four most famous roles are five, six even.

It's just like, we're at Iceman, we're at Doc Holiday, we're at Chris from Heat, and then just other kind of supporting stuff.

Like his lead vehicles, even though we're doing one today, The Saint is a hack for him.

He figured it out.

He said, I want to play cool, little interesting side characters.

So just give me a movie where I play 10 of those and sew them together.

And that's why it's fun to watch Val in the Saint.

Yeah.

And he could also be good in movies that weren't that good, which was another weird superpower.

Yeah.

Yeah, like I really like Ghost in the Darkness.

Goldman wrote it.

Val's great in it.

And Michael Douglas is horribly miscast, which Goldman wrote a whole chapter in his book about.

But Val's good.

He makes sense.

He's got this weird, I think he's like a British accent or South African accent, whatever it is.

He always has to bring some sort of weird wrinkle to it.

Even in heat, you know, the hair is a little different.

He's like volatile, but also hard to figure out, but kind of cool.

And then the way he works the gun, like they always say how like military people would study how he, how well he was using a gun and that.

The Doris, he just disappears into Jim Morrison.

There was some stuff, the SNL account that I really like on Instagram.

Yeah.

They ran all the things from his SNL that he hosted in 2000.

He's amazing.

He was one of the best random in-and-out hosts they've ever had.

He's doing Top Gun.

He does Jim Morrison again.

He's just floating around all these different things.

But if you guys, if you're looking for some Kilmer this week, and we all are, one of the sketches Bill's talking about is it's with Chris Parnell and Will Farrell.

And later in life, Tom Kaczansky is just an airline pilot, but he's still doing all this shit.

He's like, we got a bogey at six o'clock.

He's got tone on us.

And Parnell's like, that's the 935 out of Tampa.

Calm down.

It's a great sketch.

He's coming on the flight attendant.

I don't like you because you're dangerous.

Dangerous.

Do you want decaf?

Well, I shave with a Mach 3.

If you think you're dead, all right, Tom.

It's a perfect sketch.

He made fun of himself.

And it's funny, Bill, because

it's a pretty serious guy.

It's it's a very serious actor.

You know, like we can get into the whole thing.

If people don't know, like youngest.

I'm ready right now.

Let's do it.

Youngest student ever into Juilliard in New York City.

And if you've never seen like his upbringing, this guy grows up in Chatsworth in LA in the Valley.

He's got a couple of brothers.

His younger brother is like the creative one in the family.

He's the director.

He's going to go on and be the successful brother.

His younger brother dies in the family jacuzzi at 15 years old, like just dies there, right there in the property.

And shortly after that, Kilmer shows up at Juilliard and like, let's act.

And he is like a true, true thespian who is all about characters, acting, method, all of it.

But then he wound up in movies like Top Gun, which just are for kicking ass and eating popcorn, which was fun.

And he could do comedies.

Yep.

He could do weird accent movies.

He could do weird part movies.

And he would say over and over again, whatever movie he was doing, he needed some sort of challenge, some sort of thing that made it interesting to him.

And it's funny because because in the 90s when the magazine, all the magazines kind of showed up, people covering the industry just got way better in all these different ways.

The internet's coming in the late 90s.

But there was an awareness I had, just somebody living in Boston who liked movies and knew nothing other than what I read of like, oh, Val Kilmer is kind of difficult.

That became a thing with him.

And it kind of added to

just the mystique of him.

Like he does Batman once and he's signed to do other ones.

And they basically like let him out because he he was kind of a pain in the ass.

By the mid-90s, pain in the ass fell Kilmer, and it was kind of like hard to say what was real and what wasn't real.

There was an entertainment weekly story about him in 96 that kind of hammered him.

Premiere had this piece about him in 97.

I have some quotes, but EW in 96 called him Mr.

Unpopularity.

He was saying how he was committing $6 million a picture and nobody liked working with him, which I don't think was totally true.

But he was coming off from 85 to 96, Top Secret, Real Genius, Top Gun, Willow, The Doors, Tombstone, Batman Forever, Heat, Ghost of Darkness.

And then it starts to get weird right around The Saint, the movie we're talking about, because he's doing I Wanted Dr.

Moreau, which I might be the only person in America who likes that movie.

I'm fucking batshit.

It's batshit.

It's the craziest.

I was trying to convince CR to do it for rewatchables, and even CR is like, I don't know, man.

It's like you're offering him plutonium.

And he's doing the saint, but there's this is the from the premiere in 97.

Opinions about about Kilmer swing from pro parentheses artist to violently con, disturbed, with demanding and difficult somewhere in between.

He's aloof.

No, he's shy.

He's a liar.

He's terrific.

It brings out the worst in everyone.

You just have to know how to handle him.

And then a quote from Tom Sizemore: Never had I heard so much crap about an actor I had such a good time with.

It's all bullshit.

He doesn't explain himself to people, so people talk.

Yeah.

The action is the juice.

And to me, I miss the juice.

Maybe this should go under like what's age the best.

I miss the problematic onset actor, like shoving the director and busting up the hotel room.

You know, we got it a few years later after Kilmer.

It was Russell Crowe.

Right.

But I, I mean, listen,

Eddie Vetter was difficult.

Axel Rose was a complete asshole.

Like, those were my heroes in music.

Yeah.

And there was something that was, I don't know if it's romantic, but or just, maybe it was just good old-fashioned cool about, oh, yeah, he and Joel Schumacher exchanged blows on the set of Batman.

Kilmer won't take any shit.

He's so hard to work with, but he's so talented.

They still do it like i thought that was kind of cool back in the day i missed yeah and schumacher i don't think history has treated him kindly the last 30 years but he was one of the people that was killing him left and right and then john frankenheimer who directed him in island dr murrow said

i will never climb mount everest and i will never work with val kilmer again there isn't enough money in the world um and schumacher was throwing him under the bus left and right but I think he was just a really passionate artist who never wanted to be as famous as he got.

But all these dudes at the same time, they can't resist it.

It's like, here's the Batman suit.

And they're like, oh, fuck.

All right, fine.

I'll be Batman.

And then you like hate yourself that you did it, you know?

Well, I think that's why also The Saint is actually a great movie to do for the Val Kimmer tribute, because I think this is the most interesting juncture of his career.

Like at the, he's at the crossroads.

So he's doing his thing.

This is post-heat.

This is post-tombstone.

Michael Keaton decides, I'm out on Batman, I'm not doing it.

Kilmer gets a call while he's in Africa saying, Batman's yours.

Doesn't read a script, doesn't do anything, signs up for it.

And he talks about this in his documentary.

And this is when my opinion of Val Kilmer jumped leaps and bounds.

He was so miserable playing Batman, not just because of Schumacher, but he's surrounded by Jim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones, who are actors, actors, and performers.

And they're just painting scenery and chewing shit up and like owning every scene.

And he's sitting there saying these stupid Batman lines and he can't move and he can't act.

And it was like torture for him.

I just, it was, it was heartbreaking to hear it.

For an artist, he's like, everyone wants to be Batman.

I don't think everyone necessarily wants to play Batman.

Like, that's Val Kilmer.

So, The Saint, which was a TV series

that had been bounced around, and we'll talk about how this was like a big TV remake thing.

Um, and it comes out and it does well, it doesn't do amazing, but it had always heard about it.

They're going to try to reboot it.

And uh, Mission Impossible beats it by a year.

Yeah, same studio, Paramount.

And we'll talk about all the ways that was bad for The Saint.

But I'm, so I'm living in in charlestown in 1997 in boston i have the illegal cable box right

which i've talked about many times on the rewatchables and it would have like 12 pay-per-view channels and if it was like the saint was now on pay-per-view it wouldn't be like you got it on demand it would be it would run from two to four and then four to six and yeah six to eight and eight to ten and that's how i would watch some of these movies it was like a train just keep it on right yeah i would be like writing my my uh boston sports got com and i just have the saint on in the background for three days.

And I think that's why I like the movie so much because the movie's incoherent.

We'll go over the plot.

The plot is like, you have to watch this movie seven times to even fully understand what's happening.

It's what it is and why I like this so much.

It's a great hang.

This is like, I can't think of a better like airplane movie than the Saint.

You're paying attention.

You don't really have to pay attention.

Elizabeth Shute looks amazing.

Kilmer looks He's wearing weird disguises.

There's a couple chase scenes and it's a hang and it's over.

And this is where I'm going to throw, I'm doing it right now.

The CR thinks, the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harris Ford.

You're going to do it in the open.

Let's go.

Doing it in the open.

I've said this forever and I'm going to say it now.

This should have been born Mission Impossible.

There should have been six of these.

It really makes me mad.

I felt this way for 30 years.

And it wasn't ostensibly because it was a hit, but not like a mega hit.

And then Kilmer was probably difficult.

And then what is the other reason sitting there?

Mission Impossible.

So Mission Impossible comes out in 96.

And why not go head-to-head with that?

They can't do it.

Mavericks got too much for Iceman.

Is that the reason?

So I think there's other reasons.

They didn't really hit the full potential of what this could have been.

Partly.

Because Mission Impossible had already happened.

Now, there's this whole alternate universe where the Saint just comes out in 94 and probably shifts what Mission Impossible is.

But I think the reverse happened.

But if you just look at it,

great name.

I know what it is, The Saint.

Yep.

Repeatable action movie gimmick.

Guy who's like kind of a spy, but he's a thief and he disguises our gimmick.

Great lead actor.

I want to spend more time with Val, just like Damon starts born.

Okay, great.

More Damon.

We have a superhero origin story

with in the orphanage.

Yeah, we sure do.

And the girl falls to her death and it's like, oh, shit.

We're on location.

there's action there's villains

what else do i need i know we should have had five of these i know

the saint budapest the saint argentina like what the fuck are we doing yes let's go it's like real housewives just move them all over the coolest thing that the saint does is the costumes right like he the problem is is though is that mission impossible almost does the exact same thing with the masks almost kind of in a cooler way better yeah it's like they just hit the best club and hit it better you know what i And it's just Cruz is a little more compelling than Kilmer when he's just being the agents.

And so I hear you on that.

Like it's Mission Imposter's superior product.

And then the Saint would have to market correct it a year later and it didn't have that kind of firepower.

It's an all-time market correction.

And the irony of it is you have Maverick fucking beating the Iceman yet again.

He just, Maverick just outthought him one more time.

Same thing.

No difference than Kaczynski flying in that whatever conflict we were in in 1986, and Maverick became the hero.

All Kaczynski did was just kill it, top of his class, just getting wins left and right.

Goes on, has a better job as we found out of Maverick, has just way more important than the country, and Maverick still somehow wins.

Same thing here.

And it cuts even worse because meanwhile, you know, Kaczynski is trying to make up for it by getting with Maverick's girl from Cocktail.

And like, that doesn't do anything either.

Like, there's a whole universe involved here.

It's fucking bullshit.

I love this gimmick.

There's a couple other things I love, but

we got to do the disguises now.

I can't wait for the categories.

It's so

everything written down.

I know

that you have something.

Go do your thing.

Do your thing with the disguises.

They're the best.

You said like it's a great hang movie or airplane movie because the lead character changes every 10 minutes and you get a different cool voice from Kilmer and he just gets to cook.

So I did a top five.

I got the top five, my top five characters in this.

All right.

And I'll start with number five.

Number five is at the end at the embassy.

It's southern accent, goatee guy.

Little tiny son in there.

Yeah.

He's number five because he sounds like Doc Holiday.

And it's like, oh, shit, he's doing Doc.

And he hasn't yet begun to defile himself.

Number four,

Spanish guy on the plane who's swinging the medallion with the seductress.

Super.

What about Jim Morrison?

Like, once again, dips into past roles.

It's a little Jim Morrison-ish.

He's got a little bit of the lizard king.

His hair almost looks like Ron Perlman in Beauty and the Beast.

He's got, all right, number three.

I got the

grumpy

cold fusion mumbo jumbo.

You don't believe in this type of stuff?

I like him.

He's like a cross between Ernie McCracken and Joseph Lieberman.

Like he's just all over the place.

That's my

big teeth, right?

Terrible teeth.

Yeah.

Terrible comb over.

And he hits on the young girl.

Two, I got a German lipstick guy.

It's so early.

Do you want some coffee or something?

Love in the train terminal with the lipstick and everything.

That's the one I wrote.

His name's Bruno, right?

I can't remember their names.

Is it named Bruno?

I wrote that he looks like a Danish hairdresser or the fifth BG or both.

Yes.

He has the hair like the guy from Firehouse.

Like, it's.

And then, number one, I got the artist Thomas with the wine and the sculpting.

And the, like, I think that's the best part of the movie.

I, that's my guy.

You?

I had all those written down.

I don't want to sleep on first time we see him.

He's the gimp from Pulp Fiction climbing the building.

We're in the same

outverbal kids.

Yeah, he's got that.

I also enjoyed Russian Maid Lady.

Sure.

Quick cameo in the background with a mop.

I honestly could have spent another 40 seconds with Russian Maid Lady with him.

And then,

Ivan Tretiak, lookalike guy?

He's cosplaying Ivan Tretiak right to his face.

It's great.

I write that.

I mean, so

in the research, they openly say this because this was what he was all excited about.

They didn't want him to do as many disguises because they felt like it was stepping on Mission Impossible.

And I was like, you motherfuckers, you were developing this before Mission Impossible.

But Kilmer was like more, more and more disguises.

And they were like, no, no, less.

You're on the corner.

I feel like every scene, he could have been somebody different.

I'm actually, listen, I actually don't like the scenes when he's not somebody.

Like, that's

the weak link of this movie, Bill.

When he's not a disguise, he's not that great.

Like, it's kind of a little bit boring when he's just Val Kilmer.

You're like, get back to the disguise.

Even the Australian guy is like, guns make me nervous.

Like, I like it all.

I don't want him out of costume ever.

So, Roger Ebert, I won't step on his review later, but he wrote, I've been trying to put my finger on the movie's key problem.

And I think it may be that Kilmer plays the saint too realistically.

If you take a step back and really think about James Bond, you'll realize that he is mad.

So is Batman.

So is the Phantom.

They live in fantasy worlds of their own creation and bring a certain style to their delusions.

The Saint still harbors ordinary human emotions, and that will not do.

I thought that was interesting.

Falcomer almost plays it too straight.

And yet I think that's why this movie is such a good hang because I don't feel like,

you know, I'm never like, I never have to like be too involved in fucking character arc, any of that shit.

Get one flashback to the girl following her death in the orphanage.

Other than that, he's just having fun stealing money from people.

Yeah, he's driving his car around.

He's kind of fucking around.

He's leaving notes for her.

But when he's just Simon, it's like, you know how you said, like, you don't really know what Kilmer is doing in heat.

He's kind of just underplaning and brooding.

Like, that's, he's, he's not doing much as Simon.

He's just letting the action handle it.

And he's letting Moscow handle it because it looks really cool.

Yeah.

The old TV show remake era, we have to mention really quick.

Sure.

This is a stretch of two Brady Bunch movies.

The Flintstones, Adam's Family, Charlie's Angels, The Fugitive, Beverly Hills, Billy, Hillbillies, The Saint.

There was more.

And for some reason,

I feel like if you look back, even though the 90s were amazing for movies and we had all these great stars and directors in there, this is also Hollywood telling us they're starting to run out of ideas.

Yeah, it's tough.

They were like, The Saint?

Sure.

Let's,

okay, Greenlit.

Let's go.

Sounds good.

And they're just doing this with basically everything that came out in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

As a guy who was going to movies all the time, you and me as well, were you going out and being like, I got to see John Goodman as Fred Flintstone.

I'm there.

I wasn't.

I didn't care.

I was kind of annoyed by it.

I was a late teenager.

And like, even now, I'm like, those movies I have no desire to watch.

I would never show them to my kids.

Yeah, it almost seemed like the thing that hit the hardest was the casting.

Even before you came out, the movie would be like, so John Goodman's going to be Fred Flintstone.

I'd be like, okay.

And then you would go see the movie.

I remember one of the weirdest ones was Lost in Space, a TV show that wasn't even like,

you know, I don't, I never felt like that show held up.

And then all of a sudden they're making it.

And I think like Matt LeBlanc is in it.

Matt LeBlanc's in there.

Lacey Chabert, William Hurt.

Right.

They rounded up.

Go ahead.

Why do we do this?

And it amounted to nothing.

We don't need it.

It's not like Star Trek or Star Wars.

Lost in Space is kind of a reach, guys.

We need that.

But they're like, anything that was on TV, let's do it.

They never made a Gilligan movie, but I'm surprised they didn't.

Yeah.

Like, I remember in the 2000s.

Yeah.

I was really, when I finally had like just enough juice to even get a meeting with anybody.

And I was like, you got to remake the White Shadow.

Got to remake the White Shadow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you realize, like, if something hasn't really existed for 25, 30 years, why do you even have to remake it?

Because ultimately the people that are going to carry a movie or a TV show are in their teens or their 20s, and they have no history with the show.

If you remade the white shadow right now, nobody would fucking know what it was.

You know, so like I felt that way with the saint.

I didn't know what the saint was.

It was like, oh, Roger Moore in the TV show in the 60s.

Like, great.

I wasn't there.

I don't know what that is.

Well, they're now making white shadow, but in 20 years, they're going to be remaking white lotus and people are just going to absolutely love it.

It's cool.

They just hang out at hotels and fuck around.

Like the shows we're watching now in 20, 30 years, they'll be something.

Yeah.

Well, The Saint apparently inspired 14 movies.

This was the initial thing which started.

It was all these books in the 20s written by Leslie Charteris.

Just wrote dozens of novels.

So no different than Bosch or some of these ones that exist now.

And

it kind of peaked with the 60s TV series, which was with Roger Moore, who then became Bond.

Being Bond.

Another piece of this movie,

our girl, Elizabeth Shu.

Let's go.

You know, after Karate Kid and Cocktail,

there's not a lot, not a lot left to do.

Like she won an Oscar, so what?

Like, Oscar's over here, best actress.

Fine.

Other people have won best actress.

Not everybody has gone toe-to-toe with Machio and Cruz in a five-year span.

I don't know.

When you fly that coast to the sun, Kyle, I don't know what's left for your IMDb, your career, whatever.

but she wins the Oscar.

And this is one of her big movies after.

The Oscar was really weird with certain actors.

Like Adrian Brody's another one.

It's actor or actress.

Sometimes that's not what you think it is.

And in this case, she makes the trigger effect, the saint, deconstructing Harry and Paul Meadow for her next four movies.

And the moment kind of comes and goes.

But this was the memorable one.

Well, let me say this as we remember Kilmer.

Shu has an Oscar.

Val Kilmer never nominated nominated for an Oscar, never nominated for a Golden Globe ever in his life.

And I've seen a lot of things this week, and I think we should mention this.

A lot of people are saying, oh my God, Doc Holiday and Tombstone.

How was he not nominated?

It's an outrage.

He wasn't nominated.

I'm like, yeah, he's incredible.

I went and did the rewatchables thing, Bill, and I looked at who was nominated that year for best supporting actor.

Holy shit.

Loaded.

All right, 1993 is Tombstone.

So it'd be the 94 Oscars.

Let me read you the best supporting actor nominees.

Leonardo Leonardo DiCaprio, Gilbert Grape.

Jesus.

Ray Fiennes, Schindler's List.

John Malkovich in the line of fire.

Pete Postelthwaite for In the Name of the Father.

And the Oscar goes to Tommy Lee Jones for the fugitive.

I knew that was an elevated train.

Dude, that's a lineup.

And there's other stuff from that year, too, that's even that's even worse.

So he was in the 92 Oscars.

Here's what we have for that one.

Okay, let's go.

Hopkins, silence the lambs.

Not going to argue.

No.

De Niro and Cape Fair, no argument.

Max Cady.

Robin Lambs and the Fisher King, pretty good.

Nick Tolte, Prince of Tides.

Maybe.

I don't know.

Warren Beatty and Bugsy.

But Bugsy is just infuriating.

Bugsy's all over the place in the Oscars.

And it's like, really, Val Kilmer, he sings all of the music as Jim Morrison is indoors, not to mention everything else.

I think that was the one for him that he got boned on personally.

And remind me, that would have been before everyone started shitting on how hard difficulty was or maybe that's part that was before no that was before because he made it through a movie with oliver stone who i don't exactly think was mr drummond from facts of life no

i think it worked and i

we get to the we've talked about this but we get now up to the saint where i remember the story about it was more than about the movie it was about like val kilmer is an asshole that was just it was like the the story was written about it sometimes this happens especially back then before internet like water world it it was just is expensive and it's not that good.

Like, don't even like it.

Or, like, we're even seeing it now with, with, like, with Snow White.

It's terrible.

It's terrible because of all these reasons.

You don't even have to see the movie to know it's a disaster or at least be told that it is.

The same with some of that going on, where it's just, it's the Valkym or asshole project, and it's not good, but it is pretty cool.

And it's also a really good Elizabeth Shu movie.

And

I thought she's a really important 90s, 80s, 90s person.

We also have Ivan Tretiak played by the bearded bad guy from Taken 2 all those years later.

Still evil.

Younger, but just as evil.

And then don't you just smile when you see that guy?

I love that guy.

I don't even say his name because I don't care what his name is.

I just know him from the Saint Taken 2, but he's been in 40 things.

He's in everything.

You need a Russian guy who's kind of evil, but charismatic and has a cool beard.

Yeah.

Is your guy?

And then his son, Ilya,

who's also really good because he has...

a sleazy ponytail.

He's got a cocaine watch.

Didn't even know those existed.

Oh, yeah.

But most importantly, an evil cane.

Do we just not do props enough with action with our action movies?

Like, I don't know why he's running around with the cane.

He's using it.

It's like almost like you would use it if you're walking on a tightrope crossing buildings.

A balance beam?

You need that balance thing.

But the cane,

I guess he can hurt people with it.

It's made out of metal.

It's never explained.

He never talks about it.

What is it?

He's totally able-bodied.

He certainly doesn't need it to walk.

It's, listen, this is this is a little window dressing, a little lipstick to put on him.

They even occasionally he'll do the like,

like, and they'll add the sound effects when he does it, like he's Zoro or something.

And then at the end, you knew there was going to be a weapon and there's like this little sticker that comes out of the end.

That guy, like,

let's just say we can revisit that actor when it comes to recasting.

And I think they're like, we got to give this guy some, we got the ponytail and we got the cane and the cocaine watch.

Let's dress him up a little bit.

At least if you're going to carry the evil cane around all movie, I need you to do some numchuck stuff with it or like be able to flip it around and like be just be a little more intimidating.

He's carrying it.

It's like, is this guy disabled?

Is he doing this so he can get a better parking space?

What are his

thing was Kilmer's last movie before this is Batman Forever, in which Jim Carrey has a cane that Carrie has talked about.

He worked for months to get to do all those like the baton twirling thing.

And he does it the whole movie.

That's what you're looking for from the young Tretiac.

You know, I haven't revisited Batman Forever in a while.

It is kind of crazy how loaded that cast was.

They basically,

they basically 2024 NBA Dream Team, the Olympics with the cast.

We have, you mentioned Tommy Lee Jones and

Carrie coming off 94 when you had the three monster movies.

Nicole Kidman's in it, right?

As she's doing.

And then Chris O'Donnell was like, basically.

Big deal.

Gonna be Matt Damon.

And then Matt Damon is like, fuck that.

Market corrects him with Goodwill Hunting.

But the five of those people were pretty massive.

No, that movie played.

It's that movie got the plane down.

It's the next one that came out was the disaster with Clooney and Schwarzenegger.

And that one is just unwatchable garbage.

Schwarzenegger is Mr.

Freeze.

Yeah, it's like a career ender.

Everybody chill.

And it was just, and by the way, like Kilmer is looked back at at the time.

They're like, you said no to a Batman movie.

Nobody does that.

He made the right choice.

He dodged that bullet and he gave us the Saints instead, which is way better than Batman and Robin.

So the biggest thing from this movie and the legacy after it came out, other than I kind of like that movie.

Yeah.

The music was amazing at the, at the time.

It's amazing now.

There was a real moment, and I was a big, like, I was a big, at the same time, simultaneously, like hip-hop rap, but also obviously grunge.

Of course.

And both of those things are exploding at the same time.

And I love that.

And I wasn't really, the electronic scene.

I was about a year late too.

And I had a couple of friends that were in it.

And there was a couple of clubs in Boston that had it.

And I was like, I don't get it.

I don't get it.

And this movie kind of got me into it.

We have Orbital does the theme song, which I think is one of the better action theme songs.

It's got the sneaker pimp song, Six Underground, which I think is

so good.

Anytime you hear that a movie, it's so good.

I love it.

Daft Punk does Defunk.

Moby has Oil One.

Underworld Chemical Brothers and Fluke is in it.

And then Duran Duran's in it as like the old guys trying to play this music.

And there's more stuff in there.

But

there was a specific moment, and I think this is the only movie that hit it correctly.

Because by the late 90s, the moment kind of moved into something else.

But

all the men, and it's all in there.

And I think it's a big drawing card for this movie.

This wasn't your music.

You were more Pearl Jam.

Oh, no.

Well, I was more Pearl Jam.

But listen,

and this is my what's the most 1997 thing about this movie.

He's sitting around on his like shitty 1997 computer negotiating with the mafia, just blasting some smashing pumpkins in his apartment.

No problem.

And then he's in a chase scene with a shootout, and he puts the pumpkins back on as he drives.

And it's like, there was some exec bill that went to the filmmakers.

They're like, we got to get some pumpkins in.

They're hot.

Just put them in.

And we're like, it's a movie in Russia.

It doesn't really fit.

Fucking put them in.

It's a cover of a car song and they're driving a car.

It makes sense.

Just put it in.

And I'm bobbing my head to you all I've got tonight.

It works.

It was a really important CD in the mid-90s.

Yeah.

Because, you know, we didn't have Spotify back then.

We didn't have Apple.

We didn't have anything.

And it's like you had to buy CDs that had as many possible songs that you might have liked as possible.

And this one was great.

So listen, if we're at 90s soundtracks, if you want to put it up there,

The Crow is up there for me.

Last Action Hero

Judgment Night.

And like those, and singles, obviously.

Like singles is probably the number one, but those are the ones you had to have.

Yeah, Above the Rim I'd thrown too.

Directed by Philip Noyce, who did Deadcom, a really good movie with Nicole Kidman that made her not a star, but put her on the radar for everybody.

Patriot Games, Clear and Present Danger,

The Saint,

and Sliver

with Sharon Stone.

So he was busy in the 90s, but uh, personal brand basic instincts, also known as Sliver, tough one.

I have some thoughts on him for later.

Let's take a break and then I want to tackle the plot really quick.

Let's go.

All right.

So I watched this movie with my wife

who really likes it.

She loves Val Kilmer.

We've watched this movie a couple of times.

I think we might have even been dating when it was on pay-per-view or maybe was on HBO, but

I was always into it.

And she just likes Val Kilmer.

So we're watching it.

And I look over and she's just smiling.

And I was like, you like this movie?

And she's like,

I really like it.

I don't know what it's about.

And I don't really care.

And I was like, that's perfect.

You should have been on the movie poster.

I'm going to try to explain what it's about.

All right, go.

Just for the people who have have watched this and kind of

sort of understood.

So we see Simon when he's dressed like the gimp.

He steals a microchip from a Russian oil company.

He's caught by Tretiak,

by his son, Ilya.

All right, who's Tretiak?

He is an oil billionaire.

Yes.

And this plot, which is really hard to figure out because they don't have like somebody actually explaining it to you, he's withholding energy from the Russians.

And they're like having the worst summer ever because he's trying to make the president look bad because he wants to overthrow the president.

And people are freezing to death because they can't eat their homes.

Yes.

So

he gets this microchip, and then Tretiak and his son

hire him.

Yeah.

Instead of just killing him, which I guess is a nitpick.

They could have just murdered him.

But instead, they're like, no, we're going to use him.

He's going to try to get this cold fusion thing from us.

And then we'll be able to use it.

And then he's going to kill Simon.

So Simon figures this out.

He learns that this guy, instead of selling the cold fusion formula, he's going to sell a fake formula to the president.

The president's going to have this rally and he's going to show how the cold fusion works.

Then it's not going to work.

And the Russian people are going to go, what the fuck?

I thought you said we had cold fusion.

We've got to overthrow you.

And now Tretiak is going to take over.

What he doesn't realize is the saint has 12 hours and he gets the real formula in.

So when the president shows them how cold fusion is going to work,

it works.

And then Trentiak, who's been saying it's not going to work, he basically becomes the Nico Harrison of this whole thing.

And he's like, you traded Luka Doncic?

Fire Nico.

Fire Nico.

He's the fire Nico.

And his career is over.

And that's how the Saint wins.

That's what happens in this movie.

I watched it 15 times before I understood it.

Same with me.

I i think you just said some things that explained it to me i you might not have gotten killed understood i'm supposed to pretend i know what you're talking about and i'm not and i'm like oh that's what happened but it's you know it's it's the same thing the same reaction to mission impossible the year before was no one understood what the plot is and and why is this guy alive now and he wasn't and it was very very hard to follow and uh in the meantime in this movie it's like What is this cold fusion?

I have no idea what that is and what that means, especially me seeing it at 17.

And I know the girl who was on the soccer team with Daniel LaRusso invented it.

So it's very confusing.

And I don't know where we're going.

But thank you for explaining it to me.

Never mind the people.

I've never gotten it.

So it actually on paper sounds great.

I don't know if they executed that.

I don't think if they executed the narrative as well as maybe they could have.

And if you're going to nitpick maybe one or two more set pieces.

Like that, you know, one of the best scenes that we'll get to is when they're running along the river and he has to go in the water.

Yeah.

It's like two scenes short

of stuff like that.

But this is what makes me so mad why we didn't have the Saint 2 because I think the Saint 2 almost would have been like John Wick one versus John Wick 2, where John Wick II, they're like, we've learned John Wick one worked.

Some stuff didn't work.

Let's fix it for John Wick 2 and it would be incredible.

And I think the Saint 2 would have been incredible.

I really do.

It's like a huge missed opportunity.

It would have been a anything you can do, I can do better with Mission Impossible.

It would have been a Cold War because they would try to one-up each other every time.

And, you know, Mission Impossible, cruises hanging from the wires above the floor.

Like it was really cool.

Saint 2 would have been also owned by the same studio.

And there's this whole alternate universe where the saint and Mission Impossible kind of cross over in a movie and we get Navert versus Ice again.

Maybe they're trying to do the same thing.

Yeah.

Hey, this movie had a $90 million budget and made $169 million.

So it wasn't a failure.

That's another thing.

Like, this movie made money.

What the fuck?

What are we doing?

I'm just mad that they didn't have the crossover and that Ethan Hunt and Simon Templar didn't have like a shower scene in their towels where they're just nipping out and looking at each other and telling them, you're everyone's problem.

Like, that's the scene we need.

Rick Rosevich is there for no reason at all.

Goose is there.

Roger Ebert, two stars.

He called it a James Bond wannabe, which is an irony since James Bond, in a way, is a saint clone.

Says the fight scenes go on too long and are not interesting.

The villains aren't single-minded enough.

What does work is the chemistry between Kilmer and Shu, whose scenes have a certain charm.

But there's a Sisko and Ebert TV review of this, and Siskel goes, Siskel hated it.

He goes, I think the disguises are a big mistake.

I think it becomes the nutty saint, if you will.

And my response to that, instead of fuck you, Raj, is fuck you, Gene.

Yeah.

Nobody asked you.

Yeah.

Sorry to like disguises and locations and action.

Fuck you.

And I like the nutty saint.

Did you not like the nutty professor?

Because it was hilarious.

I don't want to say that.

If I had the nutty saint, sounds great.

Watch that right now.

Miss 30.

Most re-watchable scene.

So our choices are Moscow microchip heist, which is the gump from pulp fiction disguise.

But then bushy mustache English accent disguise where he's basically like a hockey coach.

He looks like he's like coaching the Buffalo Sabres

in 1996 kind of a look.

But he's, this is where we find out Tretiac Gas and Oil Industries.

You know, we're in good shape there.

We get the Russian national anthem.

I know that's always

yeah.

You think of Nikolai Volkov, you know, Red October.

Yeah.

Red October.

And we get the jump off the roof into the pit,

which these movies will do.

It's just the truck is lined up down, you know, and that there's just enough padding that you can fall 16 stories and it's fine.

I don't know if it works this way in real life, but I'm not going to question it.

How about the flex on Simon as he's falling down?

He removes his mustache as he's falling.

I don't know if that's totally necessary, but he lands on what looks like an inflatable truck.

And every time he fucks over the Russians guys, you get that.

It's pretty badass.

When he takes off his mustache, you think like it's going to turn into a parachute.

And it's like, no, he's just,

it's just.

He's just fucking with him.

Next one, Long Hair Val, your favorite character.

What's this guy's name thomas moore thomas moore the artist who is like he does the south african accent just very difficult to do you saw the uh damon pulled it off in the soccer movie and then it kilmer learned it on set and yeah ghost in the darkness and he showed up with very difficult to do and

he the way and the whole i mean we're gonna I have a lot to say about this scene from start to finish with Shu and the painting and the sculpture and the wine.

It's fantastic.

It's why you watch this movie.

So he seduces her at dinner.

Yes.

There's an uneaten entire plate of spaghetti and meatballs next to in front of Shu for the first part of this.

I don't know if my hot cold fusion scientist was really a spaghetti and meatballs person.

I don't know.

I'll allow it, I guess, but she never touches it.

And then it all leads to seduction, seduction, seduction, abrupt departure.

Yes.

I'm going to go smash a wine bottle against the wall for no reason.

I'm going to blade like on Bruno san martino in shea stadium in 1978 just bleeding um bleeding and that's just too much for her she has to have sex with him it's full bret heart stone cold razor cut yourself and when he falls there's that awesome moment where before he cuts himself he goes what are you doing and then he just does it and he's like

i was weeping and i was thinking of you and she just falls for it i have this on answer unanswerable questions but it first of of all, because this comes after the badass move with the wine where he's like, sir, that's 400, da, da, da, da, which no waiter ever does.

And he goes, let's take two of them.

You count it.

If you did that entire sequence to a woman, like, would that work in 2025?

Like, would it just go disastrously?

I don't know.

If you're bleeding and cutting yourself, probably not, right?

I think it only works in Phantom Thread, the Paul Thomas Anderson movie with Daniel DeLoue.

Oh, it's the only other time that works.

Yeah.

There's some sort of you're preying on

a woman who's very professionally busy,

but has no self-esteem with men, which I think is the way they drew this character.

Yeah.

That smoking hop, but nobody's ever hit on her because she's just all she's doing is the cold fusion every day.

Hasn't had time to meet anyone.

And this guy just hits it.

By the way, I skipped over a scene with her.

That's one of my favorites.

Dr.

Emma Russell answers cold fusion questions.

Yeah, let's go.

The raw natural power just waited to be harnessed.

You could drive your car 55 million miles.

It would be the end of pollution.

She's going and going.

And I'm just like, I'm in.

This all sounds great.

At the same time,

I still feel like, you know, Brian Flanagan

talking about cocktails and dreams with him, I still feel like is a 10 out of 10 for her as a career apex.

This is pretty good, though.

Her laying out cold fusion.

This is, I guess, one of the smartest, most progressive scientists in the world.

She gets up in front of students and she goes, i don't really have anything to say like do they have any questions and then they don't of course she's like please and finally one of these students is just like how's it work and then she starts spouting this about well positively charged deuterons attached to the palladium cathode it's like is this like a 12th grade science project does she have a diorama it's the most unsophisticated ever and val just sits back and he's just got hard eyes he's like i'm gonna give away my entire style of living for this girl i loved her and i guess so bill simmons did too.

You know, I thought it worked.

I think it did.

Well, here's the thing.

I think they were, they were, they probably look at it like, all right, this lady's specialty is nuclear cold fusion.

Yeah.

These people probably aren't the greatest hangs.

So,

and how do we, how do we excuse the fact that she's also beautiful

and fun to hang out with?

So what's going to be her vice?

I'd be like, oh, I can see why she hasn't found anyone.

I just think they made her like try to to be super insecure.

Yeah.

She's doing the thing, right?

And

I guess on the positive side, mission accomplished.

She looks like she's a 13-year-old giving a seventh grade project.

This is my book report on, are you there, God?

It's me, Margaret.

Like, what are you doing?

There's no gravitas at all.

But like, listen, I know we're jumping around.

One of the key character moments for her is when they're about to do it and she goes into the bathroom and she's like, this is really really happening and this is really i'm like are you a fucking virgin like what is this why do i feel like you're 16 at the homecoming dance this is so weird you're like in your 30s i think she's like you guys this is about cold fusion but judy blooms one of my favorite authors what are we doing uh all right a couple more re-watchable scenes the mouse race club let's go anytime there's evil russians you know there's going to be a fun club and you know they're all going to be hanging around a table with their arms around hot russian women and there's going to be some sort of weird gambling event And in this case, it was a mouse race.

And I got to say, I was kind of in.

Like, I know ESPN's trying to come up with counter-programming, like

Pickleball, and what's that one?

Cornhole.

Mouse races, I was really intrigued by.

Bad news for ESPN, though.

Dano White's already adding it to his slap fight repertoire.

We're going to race rats.

Listen,

I had this for

Benny Hanna.

This is a movie that features Red Square in Moscow.

And I'm still like, I don't know.

the russian mafia rat race prostitute coke den is pretty badass built they have a fucking mariachi band inexplicably there i don't know why that place is wild i want to i love this scene and then we have simon dressed up like tretiac going you know what the hardest part of being you is pretending to be bad in bed it's like oh

whoa

um next one is emma confronting simon after he's escaped and she somehow uh figures out right away where he is which we'll get to in picking nets But she says, I would have given them to you if you asked, being in the cold fusion.

I like calling it cold fusion.

I don't even know if I'm right.

Is that what it's called?

Yeah, it's cold fusion, right?

Cold fusion.

Yeah, exactly.

That's like the whole thing.

Why doesn't Starbucks use cold fusion ice ice instead of doing the cold brew?

Why don't they add like a cold fusion?

Because it doesn't, it couldn't even, doesn't even necessarily exist or be the right thing.

We have a cold fusion, macchiato.

No future for Bill.

For Bill.

With triple non-fat vanilla.

It sounds like something my daughter would order.

Okay.

Here's my favorite scene.

I'm just going to tell you, this is my most rewatchable.

Simon and Emma escape from Ilya and his crew.

The wide shot of the river.

And they're running alongside the ice on the river, which is just fucking cool.

It's definitely one of those, how did they do this?

How did they not fall in?

Hell yeah.

And then Val has to go in the water.

I think this also gets great shock order award.

Val's, I think, going to be dead in two minutes, maybe 30 seconds in that water.

He's looking up.

He's looking up again.

She pulls him out.

Really good stuff.

We needed like two more of these scenes in this movie.

I remember being in the theater in this scene and people were losing their minds.

They could not believe that they were pulling this off.

And I just had, I hate to have this angle on.

I'm watching it yesterday, and I was like,

Tom Cruise does this before he has breakfast now.

I've seen this so many times done way bigger.

At the time in 97, I was like, wow, Kilmer's holding his breath for that long.

Like, Tom Cruise holds his breath for an hour while he's like spelunking.

It's just, the game has changed since back then.

You know what I mean?

It's like now everybody's running 4-3.

The linebackers run 4-3.

It's different now.

Yeah, Cruz is doing this for real.

And there's 17 doctors on hand because he can only be in there for three minutes and 22 seconds before his body will shut down.

But Cruz wants to do it.

Yeah, and he's 25 years older at this point.

Like it's it's he's just outdoing everybody.

Yeah.

Well, we also get the Emma stripping to warm him up.

Great gimmick.

I have hypothermia.

Can you lie on me with just your bra?

Warming up.

Can you make sure it's like a smoking hot black bra?

Like, make sure it's not just some like entry-level thing.

Like, I need something sexy.

That's a landmark scene for me.

And then Escaping the Waterlog Tunnels, heading to the embassy is good.

Get a little embassy run absolutely not quite an angry run that you've patented um because because she's a little little sloppy and ilya comes in for the grab but she gets in and then uh then we get a little russian roulette with val during that scene as well i like when we do a gimmick that's named after the country that we're actually in i think they get bonus points for that and then uh Last one I have is a cold fusion parade rally.

That's the actual ending.

Question mark.

Sure.

That's how they end this movie with a cold fusion rally.

They do.

And I don't know if you have this here or somewhere else, but you sent me the link of the alternate ending that they did.

I have it somewhere else.

Okay, good.

I'm happy to discuss it now.

Well, discuss it because I had never seen that before.

And I watched it rivet it.

And it's radically different what they did.

Yeah.

So it's a big, it's on YouTube and it's in Russian for some reason.

It's not in American.

I don't know how it got out,

but it's a whole action thing where Kilmer goes in and it's like people are getting shot and it's building, things are blowing up and Ilya dies.

It

kind of seems more like a Mission Impossible movie.

And I have no idea why they didn't include it.

The only thing I can think of is, did they decide they didn't want the Saint to actually kill anyone in this movie?

Because he doesn't kill anyone in this movie.

Yeah.

I think that they pivoted to the bigger love story because there was reshoots and I know Shu is in a bunch of them.

And after the light comes on in the Red Square, it turns into a Nicholas Sparks novel.

And it's like they're at a cottage making love and like kissing each other in bed.

They ended it with the love story and that was a choice.

They're like, let's have more shoe.

And I saw, I watched the video.

It looked like it kind of a Pierce Rosnan and Era James Bond ending.

It was fine.

It was fine.

Well, how they ended it, it made somebody like my wife happy.

She was just like, I really like this movie.

I know.

I like it ending in the cottage.

So what do you have for most rewatchable?

I still like my guy, Thomas, the artist, when he's just like, just a traveler searching for truth.

What are you searching for?

And she's like, I found it.

I'm looking for you.

Let's jump in the sack.

That's my scene.

What's the most 97 thing about this movie?

I'll give you some options.

Go ahead.

The soundtrack we talked about.

Yeah.

A movie not realizing that Mission Possible also existed as they were making it.

I think their choices are a lot different.

Every scene involving the internet, like all of them.

My personal winner is the Nokia 9000 communicator.

Yeah, which was a cutting-edge phone in 96.

It was a handheld, but it was also a clamshell pocket computer, and it had a little keyboard and apps.

And I did not have it because it was expensive.

And I might not have known anyone that had it.

And I might not have ever seen it until this movie.

Yeah, this was still paging people 911 call me.

Like that, this, that was, nobody had that thing and that's why it was so cool I do like what you said about everything about the internet How come when they email each other in this movie It looks like a wheel of fortune screen where there's like six words at a time That's all you can do and it blew our minds back then we could have done a rewatchables month of just how they got the internet wrong with movies in the 90s and disclosure and this movie and the net like it's just there's a four-year window I know where they're like the internet we got to work it in and they have no idea what they're doing with any aspect of it yeah this is up there it's it's and it's con he's constantly on the computer and they're in their car on the computer.

And there's like one of those antennas that comes out of the car to get internet signal.

The email in is very strange, but what do you have for this category?

I'll go with the phone.

I had Smashing Pumpkins early, but I like the phone that turns into a computer.

New category, just for you.

Oh, what do you got?

The Fatal Attraction Guy gets framed award for original ending that the test audiences hated so much they had to reshoot it.

In the original version of this movie,

Dr.

Russell collapses and dies during a lecture with about a half hour of the movie to go.

And what happens is

Ilya is she's doing a lecture, and Ilya comes from behind and stabs her with his evil cane, and it's got poison on it.

And

that's how it goes.

And then

the last 30 minutes is the saint just wreaking havoc on any, everybody, John Wick style.

And the test audiences did not like it.

And they had to do two giant days of reshoots over eight days in December 96, and then another eight days in January 97 that cost 2 million bucks as they turned it into what you just mentioned.

And that's why I think that Russian ending was in there because he's getting his revenge.

Because in the last 30 minutes, it turns into Death Wish and he just starts kicking ass.

Yeah.

I'd always heard that at the end of Pretty Woman, that Edward was going to die or something before he goes back and gets Vivian.

And they're like, no, no, no, give us a good ending.

It's the 90s.

People want this type of thing.

Well, we just did the Goodwill Hunting one, and Gus Van Zamtt was saying that he wanted Affleck to die in a construction accident right before Will went to see about a girl.

And they, they like wrote the scene out.

They're like, this definitely doesn't work.

Let's get rid of this.

Yeah.

Bad ideas.

No, don't do that.

Cause then we needed to bring Shu back to the sequel that we never got to.

Sucks.

Yeah.

Well, anyway, so that happened.

And then that leads to another category that we never get to give out that often.

Named after Elizabeth Shu.

The Elizabeth Shu.

The Elizabeth Shu is an Oxford Electrochemist Award for most ridiculous casting.

Emma Russell.

She's hot.

She has a heart problem.

Yep.

And she's making big strides in cold fusion.

I wrote down, I love when hot single women with unbelievable jobs can't resist a movie hero who's obviously horrible for them.

Yes.

It

works every time.

I'm always in.

It's a great, great little thing that happens.

And you and I, we've been on this a lot lately because you and I in CR, we did Nicole Kidman in Days of Thunder as the brain surgeon.

We obviously had Roadhouse and Kelly Lynch is like the 10.

She's the local surgeon, just stapling up guys from the Double Deuce and Jasper.

And it's the Kelly Lynch scale.

Not to say that incredibly beautiful women couldn't have positions like this, but it's a very small percentage.

I also don't think the male neurosurgeon is going to be like a Legends of the Fall Brad Pitt.

Like that's not going to happen either.

You're not going to look like that.

What was the

Peacemaker had one of these too?

I think Nicole Kidman might have been in two movies where she had crazy jobs.

Yes.

Yeah.

And she and Clooney both together just sultry on the screen, but they're trying to disable nukes in the middle of New York City.

I love it.

It's so rare that we get to give out the award for the actual movie we're doing.

We're going to take one more break and then we'll do what's age the best.

All right.

What's age the best?

I'll start us off with Crazy Wild, Wild West 1990s Russia.

And then post-USSR Russian villains.

Hollywood's just trying to feel its way out here in the mid-90s.

And they eventually settle on, let's get a guy who looks like the taken, the eventual taken two bad guy, big beard, kind of handsome, charismatic, and he's going to have an evil son with a cane.

Let's go.

I love it.

The second I see that guy, whatever his name is, we'll get to it later.

He makes me happy.

He also shows up in Eyes Wide Shut with Tom Cruise.

He runs the costume store.

He's the guy who always runs it.

I have one.

I always like when there's any kind of laser force field you have to navigate to get through to steal somebody.

Me too.

It's the red lights.

And you're like, oh my God, how do you do that?

So many red lines.

And he has that cool suit that puts his like his body temperature to the, like that shit always works.

I also like when someone says, kill him, but bring her back alive.

That sets up a great dynamic.

And there's always a follow-up line where someone's like, He's still alive, you idiots.

Watch where you're shooting.

That always happens.

It's so fun.

I do love that too.

Using Catholic saints as aliases.

Yeah.

Great work.

They have a Ku Klux Klan Knights.

Yeah, what was that?

Moment out of nowhere.

It's so weird.

I kind of like it.

I think they were like, hey, are these guys evil enough?

Well, can when we do the reshoots, can you just do a quick scene?

Just work the Ku Klux Klan in there.

Why?

Just do it.

Don't ask.

Just put it in.

I don't know.

I rewound.

I was like, what is that a Klan poster?

What is that doing here?

No idea.

Not a clue, but I guess that just makes him evil or something.

Don't know.

I have watching someone put on cool disguises.

I just enjoy.

Russian Bad Guy Cruise.

Love it.

Opening credits produced by Robert Evans.

Yeah, baby.

Here we go.

Elizabeth Shoe.

She had the kind of lips that wouldn't quit.

Apparently, he was trying to develop this for years.

And when they finally ended up making it, he wasn't involved at all.

They paid him off to go away, but he got to keep his credit.

Oh, well.

Bob Evans.

Bad guys with a prop we mentioned.

Cold Fusion.

Just, I think it had a moment, which we'll get to later.

And then

runs to an embassy, I think, is my favorite.

Would sage the best when the embassy is right there and it's like

75 yards, just somebody sprinting to the embassy.

Like, what other aspects of life are like that?

Where you have 75 yards to get there.

If you don't get there, you're basically getting killed, but not really.

You're just getting captured.

I had this under unanswerable.

Bill, is this the way it works?

If I'm in some place with conflict, can I just sprint to the U.S.

Embassy and start screaming, I'm an American, I'm an American.

And then it becomes this game of Red Rover and you have to like run through them.

Do they, because if I'm screaming, I'm an American, I feel like they would gun me down or something.

That's alarming.

I can't work that way, right?

I'm an American just seems to work.

It just seems to be the secret key to getting into the embassy.

Do they know you're American?

Like, do you have a Springsteen t-shirt on or something?

Like, how do they know?

Yeah, why couldn't a Russian pretend they were American and get into the embassy and then started to get it?

Because you know they're Russians.

They can't hide that shit.

You know,

there's not a chance.

They're trained to spot those guys.

Any more with Sage of Best?

Because I want to get to the big Kahuna Burger Award for best use of food and drink.

No, do it.

Do it.

We covered it.

Simon breaking the wine bottle and then bleeding San Martino style.

That would be my pick, but I do want to shout out the uneaten spaghetti and meatballs in Russia.

Why is that your order in Russia?

Is that in Russia or is it in England?

I lose track of it.

Or England,

wherever she was, it was not a spaghetti and meatballs area, or she was in England, I guess.

I think Dr.

Emma eats her feelings a little bit.

She's very lonely, and she goes to that restaurant.

It's right down the block from her apartment.

That's like, she's like, oh, Emma, you want the regular spaghetti and meatballs again?

Yes, please.

Is that a bad thing?

Like Shepherd's Pie or something?

Fish and chips.

Yeah, fish and like you're in England.

By the way, I know you're a kind of wine guy adjacent, like I I am.

It's the Latour 1957.

And apparently all the wine snobs online, did you see this?

They say that it stops being, it was last drinkable in the mid-80s.

So him ordering it in 1996 is like you're a decade late.

So they're odd on this movie.

Loses all credibility.

I don't give a shit about it.

You know, that's the kind of thing my mom would have picked up.

I probably should have made her watch it.

So that's my bad.

We should have had that earlier.

The Dennethie's Benny Hanna word seen sealing the location.

I still think it's that river unless you have somewhere else.

No, unless it's the rat race coke den with the prostitutes, the mariachi band.

Oh, good one.

Yeah, one of those two.

A lot of great scenes in this movie.

Kid Cuddy Pursuit Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop.

It's either the pumpkin song or Sneaker Pimps Six Underground.

I like how they weave in the Sneaker Pimps, so I'd probably personally invoke them.

It's a little more subtle than

Kilmer blasting out his Bose speakers and his Volvo with the pumpkins.

So Sneaker Pimps is cool.

Six Underground.

Take Me Down.

It's awesome.

Great song.

The funny thing about him.

Yeah, totally.

Him blasting pumpkins.

Billy Corgan and Val Kilmer together probably would have lasted about four minutes before one of them offended the other.

Two of the all-time.

Be careful around those guys, guys.

Yeah, I wouldn't go there.

And it's not even like a cool pumpkin song, like something out of gifts or disarming.

It's a car's cover I never heard of since then.

The Chess Rockwell and Brock Landers Award for Best Character Name.

I mean, Simon Templar is pretty good, but I really enjoy Ivan Tretiak.

I don't know.

That guy could be, he could be a Russian mob boss.

He could be the best goalie in the NHL right now.

He could be the person who overthrows the government.

He could be a wrestler.

What can Ivan Tretiak do?

I think he might be an MMA as well.

He's fighting Pereira next week.

It's like he didn't want to take the fight with Ivan Tretiak because he's a ground game guy, but he's going to do it anyway.

Tretiak ground and pound is lethal, and Joe Rogan's just talking about even stand up.

He's a little vulnerable, but you get him down.

It could be anything.

He could definitely be standing on his head winning the con smyth for the Buffalo Sabres, too.

Like, it's that's a great, great name.

Yeah.

Butch's girlfriend a word, weak link of the film.

What do you got?

We've hit a lot of them already.

Um,

it has major third act problems, as we know, but I just

when he's not in costume,

Simon's not great it's it's he's not terribly charismatic he's underplaying it he's doing this puppy dog love thing it's I don't love when Kilmer is just being Kilmer in this movie I like him when he's dressed up is it better if he's just doing Tom Kaczynski the whole time the whole thing like arrogant like just super arrogant spy guy with like a frosted hair yeah she's like you stole my code cold fusion like what's your problem and he goes you're everyone's problem i don't like cold fusion because it's dangerous it's unsafe that's That's what I want the whole fucking with aviators too.

I agree.

I had a weak link in this similar, similar area.

Val Comer, master of disguise in this movie.

Yeah.

You can recognize him every time.

There's not one disguise where you're like, that's not Simon Templar.

And those British police, they're like, it looks same build as our suspects.

Yeah, it's like, no, he's definitely, there's like, there's a couple that are just basically like his hair is longer or shorter.

What's age the worst?

Do you need the first seven minutes in the orphanage for the for the back setup of

if you haven't watched this movie in a while you might have forgotten the first seven minutes in which a kid gets caned by a like a priest and then a two 10-year-olds kiss and one falls to her death i don't want to see dead kids in the first five minutes of my val kilmer movie what is that a dog pushes that and it's like okay if you want to give them the superhero origin backstory um yeah i just need more information then So this girl fell to her death and this is why you became a thief?

I think so.

And listen, when Michael Keaton does Batman and they kill his parents, it's not the opening scene of the movie.

First, he's going to kick a little ass as Batman.

Like, I don't want the dead kid to start the movie.

This sucks.

This is definitely a start the movie seven minutes in.

It's on a bunch of places, like Paramount, all over the place, but I would start at seven minutes in.

The internet of 97, we mentioned as an age of the worst.

Philip Noyce said afterwards that he made a mistake casting Val Kilmer and that he should have chosen Russell Crowe instead.

And I just to tell him the fuck off.

He chose correctly, maybe direct a better movie.

Maybe, maybe that's, this is why your career hasn't gone that great the last 28 years.

Maybe look in the mirror a little bit.

Well, Noyce, who sounds like a Kian Peele sketch, he is just coming off working with Harrison Ford for two straight movies.

And maybe he liked that experience a little bit better.

Now, listen, Bill, let's not pretend that the idea of like a young badass like LA confidential heir Russell Crowe wouldn't have killed it as the same.

Let's not pretend.

No disrespect to Val.

We're here for Val, but would have been pretty cool.

How about this?

I love both.

You're standing for Val.

You're right.

It's Val.

I love both.

It's Val.

Listen, we've done proof of life on the rewatchables.

Like that, if you want to know how to feel about Russell Crowe, you just go there.

That was one of the four most stunning movies we've done.

I love Russell Crowe.

He would have been great in this movie.

Yeah.

But I also think it's an important Val movie because all the reasons we talked about at the top, it's such a weird movie.

Like

if Russell Crowe's in it, it actually has a chance to be a better movie that's probably not as memorable.

I know.

It's bad form after it's not looked down great to blame Val.

I mean, you tell me, is this J.J.

Reddick not losing in the playoffs and being blaming LeBron?

Like, isn't that like it's the coach blaming the player?

It's not like it.

And then

we mentioned this earlier, but Kilmer constantly pressing for more disguises.

Yeah.

But Paramount was nudging him off because they really liked that gimmick for Mission Impossible.

And I don't know.

Hurts my feelings.

Any other What's Age of the Best?

Because we'll move on.

What's Age of the Worst?

Oh, what's Age the Worst?

The stunts aren't up to par in 2025.

The stuff they do in this movie, Cruz does is in his personal life for free.

It's just, we've seen so much since then.

It hasn't aged great.

Great point.

Ruffo Hannah Rubinak Partridge Overacting Word.

I could honestly couldn't find anything.

I think there was some under acting.

The under acting award would be interesting.

The Val Kilmer is the Saint Under Acting Award.

I'm a reach.

Like, Kilmer, after he comes out of the freezing water, is really going for it, but he should be going for it.

He's freezing to death.

I, again, Elizabeth Shu, who's probably 35 years old and acts like she's never had sex before or kissed the boy in her life in her bathroom fixing her hair and saying, this is happening.

This is happening.

Take it easy.

You've been down the,

it's a little much.

The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford How to Steak Award.

I already gave mine, so if you don't have one, we can move on.

Or do you have one?

Oh, I have a how to stake.

Okay.

I was going to go Val, but I just, all roads lead the shoe for me.

Uh, that shoe always fits.

I think Elizabeth Shue is the greatest movie kisser of all time.

I think she's the ghost.

She is

going for it in this movie.

Every time she and Val kiss, it's intense, it's kind of an open mouth.

And then I had the pleasure of going down a YouTube wormhole and just going every time she could cocktail.

She and Cruz in the water, and Cruz is real weird, but like there's like full tongue and everything.

It's intense as hell.

Cruise like felt like he got a boner under the water there.

They're really kind of going at it.

Yeah.

And if you look at her and La Russo outside the arcade, they're like really young and it looks like it, but big time, like no little tight-lipped thing.

I even watched Leaving Las Vegas in which she's kissing someone, drinking himself to death, and it's still gorgeous.

I think she.

Wow, you really did some scouting for this.

Yeah.

And it was just Elizabeth Shu kissing.

My computer was like, wow, this stuff's light for you.

This is great.

I can handle it.

This is PG-rated.

And I think she is the greatest kisser of all time.

She goes for it so much in this.

I love it.

Thank you.

Great one.

Casting what ifs.

We'll go through this quick.

Mid 80s, Pierce Brosnan, allegedly attached, didn't work out.

94.

We have Robert Evans, Steve Zalleon writing, Sidney Paul directing.

Ray Fienes offered a million dollars to be in it and passed it.

Oh, Schindler.

Yeah.

And Ray Fiennes actually, I have it because it was in, I went and found the piece where he kind of shit on it.

He said,

this is in a premier magazine, 1994.

Yeah.

He's red hot.

Quiz show's coming out.

He's in demand.

It's like, yeah, I turned down the saint.

Quote, we've all seen the sort of sophisticated, smooth, tuxedo gent working his way from gambling tables to sports cars to helicopters to beautiful women in bank vaults and villains with funny voices and mustaches and mountaintops and grease or whatever, says Fiennes.

I just think it's been done.

It's boring.

How about this?

Fuck you, Ray Fiennes.

Double fuck you in this episode.

Right there, buddy.

Gene Siskel and Philip Noyce.

Triple crowd of fuck you's.

Why are you shitting on things that I like in movies?

Who invited you to the party?

Just pass and say it wasn't for me.

That's all you need to say.

Sorry.

Sorry.

Your little fucking snooty career.

You didn't want to

jump from a helicopter to a casino table with beautiful women and villains with a bad mustache.

Sorry, buddy.

Jesus.

Save Cold Fusion.

That's your business, but somebody else can play the role.

What a jersey.

I'm glad he didn't win the Oscar, yeah.

He didn't, he lost.

Did you see Bill, like in the recastables or the

did you see Schwarzenegger's name?

Was that I didn't believe it?

So, here's who I believe.

So, they definitely Noyce had Mel Gibson, that was for real, and they developed it for a couple months.

And Mel Gibson decided he had just spent a bunch of time away from home for Braveheart, didn't want to do it, passes.

Hugh Grant meets with Noyce, didn't like the director's approach, passes Grant,

and And then after that,

it's like Kenneth Branow, Schwarzenegger,

all these.

I just don't know what I don't believe any of them.

You don't believe in all this cold fusion, Mumbo Jumbo, do you?

We got to save the cold fusion.

I just don't see it.

He can't even do an American accent.

He's been here 50 years.

What is he doing?

I don't see it.

Val Comer then turned down Batman and Robin.

Made it easy for everybody.

Best that guy award.

Take a two guy we mentioned.

I've never seen Ilya again, so he's he's been, but

in the crew, face scars guy who's been in a couple other movies, who has the big scars on his cheeks.

And I swear, I don't even know where he's from, but I swear I've seen him in other stuff, and he jumped out to me.

Okay.

He's in a lot of stuff.

That's our guy, Tommy Flanagan.

He's in Braveheart.

He's in the game.

He's around and he's in.

And his character in this movie, it's ridiculous.

His character's name is Scarface, which is so on the fucking nose.

It's like, I don't even know why they they called him that.

But, you know, I'm sensitive now with that guy ever since Craig got all sensitive and became

Tommy Flanagan's name.

It's like the Bob Balaban rule, so I don't know if that counts.

I know Tommy.

I mean, I know his name.

It might be Ilya because I don't know if I ever saw him again, but I would have immediately said, Ilya.

You want to know something cool about Ilya?

His real name, his first name is Valerie, V-I-E-E-R-Y, and he goes by Val.

So he was two Vals on the same fucking set chasing.

Isn't that weird?

Yes.

You don't see it.

it.

Deion Wader's Award.

Emily Mortimer plays the stewardess.

Oh, yeah.

And she's just a minute and a half in, and they had been together in the Ghosts in the Darkness.

And I think she liked Val.

So this is the case of like Val Kilmer, obviously not a bad guy.

Some people liked working with him.

She came in and flirts with him for 90 seconds and is out.

So

who did you have for this?

I thought you were going to say Emily Mortimer did not enjoy working with you.

You know what?

Fuck you, Emily.

No, no, she doesn't get a fuck you.

We're out of fuck you's.

We've already hitted three fuck you's out.

Ray Fines with a big one out of nowhere.

Yeah,

competing in this one.

Jesus.

Who asked you?

Beautiful woman, bank faults, villains with funny voices and mustaches, and mountaintops in Greece, or whatever.

Or whatever.

Yeah.

Oh, that sounds great, you dick.

Yeah, or whatever.

It's so snooty.

Get out of here.

Get out of here.

Yeah, go make your little Vatican movie.

The little big twist twist at the end.

Good luck.

All right.

Next one is the recasting couch director.

What do you have for this?

I mean, we can't change the city.

It's post-Cold War Russia.

It looks fucking amazing.

I watched the movie.

I'm like, are they really there?

They are.

They're really there.

It's incredible.

So do you, so you have nothing?

I wouldn't change the city.

How about

actor, director?

I have director.

I've done Felix Doyce because he can fuck off.

He's in the fuck you line with Gene Siskel.

How about young Fincher?

Let's bring him in.

I'm always up for Fincher.

Don't do the game.

Do this instead.

Then do the game after.

This would have been right after seven, I think.

He's doing the game, but maybe he could have snuck out the Saint before the game, like right in between.

Yeah, because Kilmer and Douglas are friends from the Lion movie.

Like they would pass it along.

Like there's a synergy there.

I listen, I would take Fincher.

I'll always go with a Val Kilmer, Tony Scott.

Like it's sitting right there.

Oh, Tony Scott.

That's a great one.

Val's guy.

I mean, that's like those guys are tight.

What do you have for flex category?

Um,

I have, oh, I had a couple of them.

I was gonna do

the porn parody, but that's too easy.

It's just called the taint.

Uh, and then I was gonna do uh,

I think I'm gonna do Bill.

I'm gonna, I'm excited.

I'm gonna do the Dan Campbell.

Holy shit, they're really going for it award.

Yeah.

And that goes to, oh my God, Elizabeth Shu's actually going to to strip down and press her body against freezing Val Kilmer in the black bra.

We rewound that scene so much.

That was in the 90s Rewind Hall of Fame.

It's sexy as hell.

I love that scene and it kicks it up a notch because up to that point, Elizabeth Shu's the girl with the diorama and the spaghetti.

And now she's like, all right, I got it.

I got to become a woman right now.

It's awesome.

Great one.

Half-faster research.

Voice of the radiated announcer at the end of the movie is Roger Moore.

Yeah.

Who knows if this is true, but this was in some of the stuff written.

While filming the Satan in 97,

the crew was allegedly instructed to avoid making eye contact with Val Kilmer entirely.

I never believe this.

Anytime I see this in the research, I automatically don't think it's true.

This is why it's half-assed.

I'm just trying to think of like, imagine like you're doing good morning football.

Yeah.

Or like, let's say you're doing the Sunday Eisen show.

Yeah.

And they're like, hey,

we had talked to the crew.

Eisen doesn't want anyone making eye contact with him.

When he's coming through the hallways, you just got to look down.

Like, that's insane.

No, anyone who's actually been in a set or a crew, anything like that, the amount of people you have to pass by constantly, how do you tell them to look down when they see the star?

I've never believed this.

Well, you're about to believe because your instincts were just off.

It's not Rich Eisen, but I'm breaking some news here.

The reason Peter Schrager left Good Morning Football is we had a no-eye contact rule on set.

Wow.

And eventually it rubbed the crew wrong, and they kind of turned against and they said it's him or me.

And then so he went to ESPN.

Ryan, I don't know if he has the same rule there, but Peter, I'm sorry to break this, but you know it's true as well.

No eye contact with the Shregs.

Fuck.

I had always heard rumors about that, but I can confirm.

That's a bum.

Our relationship is over.

I'm just going to burn it down now.

It's over.

I don't care.

Screw it, Peter.

Sorry, bud.

You got stuff on me too.

Air it out.

No eye contact for Peter, ESPN.

Give me back help.

Don't do it.

It's a great feud.

Make people take sides.

I thought, Bill, you're going to show up for this pod wearing a Teen Shregs t-shirt.

I'm so relieved that you didn't.

I thought for sure you were.

No, I have complicated feelings about it.

I know.

As you know, because it's ESPN, the alleged worldwide leader,

a May 96 Entertainment Weekly set report cited Val as being volatile on set, missing call times, and putting out a lit cigarette in a crew member's face.

Elizabeth Schuen producer Mace Newfield denied the misconduct, praised his professionalism, dedication, and pointed out how he eventually worked seven days a week during the reshirts, which were three months for the movie's release.

We'll never know what actually happened.

He put out the cigarette on the crew member's face.

I'm going to say that reeks of bullshit.

That's like Redfoot flicking the cigarette in McManus's face and usual suspects.

Like, you don't do that.

If you do that, like, someone gets killed.

That's

come on.

We're going to take one more break and we're going to do Apex Mountain.

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Apex Mountain.

Kilmer, no.

Right?

It's a no.

I think it's 95 when he does Batman and Heat.

I think Batman says Apex.

When he's doing this, his reputation is in the gutter and people don't want to work with him.

It's the year before this, I think.

Two years before.

Elizabeth Shu won an Oscar, so this can't be it.

Disguise movies, probably not, because Mission Impossible, Mark, I corrected it.

Post-USSR Moscow movies?

I need to see a complete list.

Did Bourne ever go to Moscow?

It went everywhere.

Yeah, probably.

It's up there.

It's cool.

The electronic music scene in the 90s.

I'm going to say this is right around the apex.

This was the one that really did, and especially Orbital, I had sneaker pimps, definitely.

Yeah.

Moby's really feeling it right around now.

All these people.

It's all happening for the whole scene.

You know, you know, it's big because the Treadiac's guys, like his goons, are driving around, blasting the electronic movie in their cars while they're looking for somebody.

Like, yeah, when you're looking for somebody, you turn the volume down when you get there.

Like, I can't even make it through a Trader Joe's parking lot with music on, and they're like zipping around looking.

It's cool.

It's energetic.

I have one more

Apex Mountain.

So if you have any, rip them off.

No, no, give me what you got.

I feel like you're about to crow hop into this one.

Yeah, this is going to hurt.

What do you got?

I don't know.

What do you got?

Cold fusion.

I think this was Apex Mountain, and here's why.

I did some research.

And here's what the research basically came with.

This is where it came out.

All right.

This is from Wikipedia.

Yeah.

There is currently no accepted theoretical model that would allow cold fusion to occur.

It's the entire premise of this movie, including the ending.

And apparently it's just not a thing that can actually happen.

So I have a just this, it's impossible.

And because it's the opposite of hot fusion, you just do it at room temperature.

I always looked at cold fusion, Bill, like people look at hoverboards, like, when are we going to have that shit?

When are the flying cars?

And where is free, clean energy for the entire world?

That movie has been out for 30 years or something.

There's still no cold fusion.

I guess it never will be.

It's not happening.

Yeah.

Cruz or Hanks?

Obviously, Cruz, and it kind of hurts to give this one to Cruz to begin with because he market-corrected the Saint.

Scorsese

or Spielberg?

I have Scorsese because part of Kilmer's story when he was young, he would make audition videos for himself, and he made an entire short movie of him as Henry Hill that he got to Martin Scorsese because he wanted to play Henry Hill.

And this is after he gave one to Kubrick to play Joker in full metal jacket and also didn't get it.

I think he was like completely obsessed with Scorsese, and I would love to see him do it.

We'd have to do it probably in Rome instead of Moscow or maybe Milan or something, but I think it works.

I think with all the reshoots and rewrites, probably moving some stuff to Rome would have been pretty easy.

The Oxford Cold Fusion specialist is just now in Rome.

Yeah.

We'd have to upgrade Emma's pasta and meatballs too to something like that.

then the pasta and meatballs make sense yeah now we're doing chicken farm and there's like some yes aaron cheeny on the side um what role would philip seymour hoffman have played

yeah

the cold fusion specialist is where i landed the guy who has 12 hours to basically make it work

he's wearing he's wearing a scotty g is scotty j t-shirt that's too tight that's the problem with this category i anytime i either for some reason i just think of scotty j or i think of what's our guy's name and a talented Mr.

Ripley.

I always try to put those two guys in, and those guys are so weird.

Listen, my answer to this is: I want to see him play the fucking saint.

I want to see him do all those parts.

Oh, wow.

Let's really let Phil Seymour Hoffman cook and be the Russian guy and the artist.

Like, that's the artist part.

That's what I want.

I like it.

Pick a nets.

Yeah.

A cold fusion scientist is going to tell some random handsome guy with a bad accent that she met three minutes ago that she's figured out everything with the future of the world at stake, just volunteering this.

And she's also going to write it on some fucking post-it notes and put it in her bra.

What are we doing?

It's the secret of the world.

Everyone's looking for it.

Why don't you just put it in a save for a computer?

Anything?

It doesn't make sense.

I have a bunch.

So what?

You rip off yours and then I'll go.

All right.

I have a couple.

Doesn't his wig come off during sex?

Like they derobe and they go at it and he's got a wig on and it doesn't even become a skew or anything.

it just tells me that maybe the sex was kind of tame and the vibe I'm getting from Emma might indicate that.

And I have a similar one.

Right after she's lying on him for like however long to warm him up, is it possible he can get up and run away from the Russians with a massive erection?

He definitely has.

There's no fucking way he's running up and down stairs like that immediately after that.

It always struck me as like, God, that's so hot.

I don't think he'd be able to run afterwards.

I think he's fully aroused.

Yeah, he probably has some weird saint thing that he can like put something

like a little like saint tack, just push it against and the boner goes right down like a reverse Viagra.

So those picnics with me.

And then the only other one I have is like she's sitting there with those British detectives or whoever they are and she starts listing saints and she's like, isn't it obvious?

It's all saints names.

Are there any?

It's like you caught that that fast.

That felt like the tone loke, this slick thing is no joke moment from Heat where like the whole movie turns on that.

It's a little much.

I had that as well.

First of all, if he's like this amazing state-of-the-art spy, you probably don't want to leave a calling card of just saints.

Anybody can crack that one in five names.

Simon recovers from hypothermia in about 12 minutes.

Yeah,

really fast.

That's the power of shoe, man.

It's just incredible.

Pretty sure you're in the hospital overnight and they're feeding you intravenously and trying to bring your body temperature back up.

He's fine.

Clothes are still wet.

Doesn't matter.

Yeah.

He waltzes waltzes into the Russian president's office at one point

and is like, I'm an American, yeah.

And the guy's like, I just believe this guy right away, even though he somehow got in here.

Nothing, not prayed, it's very strange.

Not enough disguises that we kept we have mentioned before.

How does he keep changing this many disguises when he's on the run all the time?

And where does he keep them?

What's in that backpack?

Yeah, um,

he's got wigs, mustaches, hair pieces, everything is like state-of-the-art perfect.

Just in like a napis.

The last kiss that he has before she goes into the huge like auditorium, he shows up two minutes later in the full Ernie McCracken wig, glasses, and teeth and everything in a completely different outfit.

Just perfect.

Does that in a men's room?

Or like a phone booth or anything.

He just gets nothing got damaged during any of their

he's in cold water at one point.

And then this is my big one.

So Emma has a heart condition.

We've established this right right away.

Oh, yeah.

This is a big thing.

It's the first thing we see is she's grabbing for pills.

She's running around the last half of this movie like she's fucking Jackie Joyner Kersey.

Those heart pills are gone.

The heart condition has been solved.

She's just flying around.

She's Zola Bud, just sprinting.

When she gets to the embassy, she turns into DK Metcalf running down Buddha Baker.

And it's like, Jesus, Dr.

Emma, you're in the wrong field.

That's how your heart is fucked up.

Ridiculous.

Sequel, prequel, Prestige TBL, Blackcast or Untouchable.

We covered this.

Definitely a sequel.

Is this movie better?

With Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treyo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley in the firm.

What do you got?

Well, it is still the NCAA tournament going on.

So I would like to hear Gus Johnson calling Elizabeth Shu warming up the saint with her body heat.

And I think it would sound like this.

Simon Templar, young fella, ha ha,

freezing his ass off in the Russian slums.

No shot clock.

Dr.

Russell strips down.

Going tip for tip for 98.6.

Hot fusion.

Yes, sir.

Gush, I love you.

I don't know how you you do it.

I love it.

I gotta add Gus to the main thing.

Because we've done it now three times.

We love you.

Gus.

I love Gus.

Love you, Gus.

I was gonna do, is this movie better with Peter Schrager fake laughing to a Mike Greenberg Jets joke in mid-October?

But I need to workshop it.

I need like another month.

All right.

Well, I have not seen that happening because I'd be like that guy in the reality show who's watching his girlfriend have sex with the new guy.

I can't watch Peter Schraeger on get up, bonus.

I can't do it.

I just, so I've heard it's happened, and I'm glad it's happened.

I'm very happy for Peter, but we had a nine-year marriage.

I can't see him with his rebound relationship or his new marriage.

I just can't do it, Peter.

Can't do it.

I love you, bud.

I'll tune in eventually.

I just need an adjustment period.

It's going to be a while for me.

Just want to ask her who gets it.

So, probably the theme song.

That, like the score?

Listen, I laugh out loud when he drives past the British cops at the end.

He honks the horn of his fucking Volvo and it goes, Burner,

he has like it's Dukes of Hazard or something.

Why does he have the signature honk?

The probably unanswerable questions for me ties into the Zawatana Award for what happened the next day.

Yeah, sure.

How long are these two lasting?

Yeah.

She's just solved killed fusion.

He's a fucking really weird guy with clear damage from an orphanage who likes to wear disguises, who doesn't seem to have any sort of loyalty to anything.

And now now they're just in a cottage together.

And it's like, hey, should we adopt a dog?

Yeah.

Have my eye on an Irish setter.

I've always wanted to start a winery.

Should we do that together?

No, I don't think so.

I can't see them playing scattergories like on game night.

But I don't know if he's going to leave her.

Like, isn't she the one who has all the power now and all the money?

And he's trying to get up to 50 million and she has like the trillion-dollar idea.

So maybe he's trying to stay with her because he's driven by money as much as anybody.

But she's never kissed another man before.

That's what we find out in multiple scenes.

So maybe she feels indebted to him.

Remember in Wedding Crashers when Isla Fisher tells Vince Bond, like, that was her first time?

Like, I feel that that scene was missing from this movie.

Like, I just want you to know, that was my first time, Thomas.

What?

What do you mean?

Like,

I think that was her first time.

Unanswerables, we've covered everything.

I don't have any other ones unless you have any.

I just had the question, is Thomas's seduction of Emma illegal or immoral?

Where like he goes, finds out everything about her, completely seduces her based on like information from breaking and entering her apartment.

Um, it's probably not, not,

not ideal, but they did it in 1997 and nobody batted an eye.

And then we already covered running into an embassy and saying you're American.

So I actually do have one.

I

just didn't look at my document correctly.

Cold fusion saves Russia.

Yeah.

Keeps the president in charge.

Yeah.

What are the ramifications globally of a warmer Russia?

Yeah, that's tough.

Um,

Where are we now all these years later?

Does Putin even take over?

Oh, he takes over.

Where are they going?

I think he grabs it anyway.

Does he hoard the cold fusion for himself?

Does Russia become more of a superpower?

Like, are we speaking Russian right now?

Is Ivan Drago, does he win in Creed II?

It's just a lot of ram.

Does Trump ever get elected?

Like, we could just keep, does Peter Schrager ever end up on GetUp?

Fake laughing at a Justin Fields joke in mid-October?

Like,

what happens?

Peter, I didn't see the joke.

I'm sure it was a very funny Justin Fields joke.

I'm sure you're killing it.

I love you, bud.

I don't like the idea of Russia getting like this free unlimited energy, especially since Bill, that president is a beta.

Like that president is soft as hell.

Like he does not have the clutch gene.

He's sitting there in his jammies while people are kicking his ass.

He's going to be out in seconds and some dictator is going to take over.

And I don't know what the translation in Russian is for get up, but I think we need to be saying it right now.

Coming up next,

can LeBron use Cold Fusion to play 82 games next year?

We're going to find out with

Monica McNutt.

Come Dak Prescott, win the Super Bowl.

We talk to Peter Schrager and get up.

Love you, Peter.

Great job over there.

These jokes are all out of love.

What piece of memorability would you want or not want from this movie?

Obviously, the cane would be just a huge win.

Bill, you you love that cane.

You're the only other person who would be excited I had it, but I also, the original Nokia Phone, I think, would be pretty good.

I'm going to look on the online if I can see and get you that cane, like the end of the year gift.

Mine is always, if there is a film, and we do a lot of them, where there is a boot that has a hidden knife in it, I want that fucking boot.

I want the boot, whether it's from Roadhouse, whether it's from Cyborg, there's a knife in a boot that is always going to be my piece of memorabilia.

You know, I didn't write this down.

Yeah.

And I should have, and it would have been a great, probably unanswerable question because I thought it when he did it, and then I just forgot.

I must have been distracted.

Okay.

How do you get the blade to come out of the boot?

Is there, is it like, do you have to tap your heel a certain way?

Is it like a little button attached to it?

I've never understood how the bad guys can make the thing come out.

Okay.

Well, do you have to tilt your foot to the right?

Like, what do you have to do?

You couldn't because it would come out when you're just walking then.

The Roadhouse guy is so white trash that his blade is just out all the time.

right?

There's no retractable.

But in the, I think, for probably for Simon, he has some something digital, like a remote in his wrist or something.

But I, I don't know, you flick it out with your toe.

I don't, I'd like to find boots with knives.

Do they make them like for people who are self-defense and things like that in bars?

I don't know if that's an actual game.

It's even better.

It could you could remove it out of the boot.

Yeah, you're right.

It was just stored in there.

Yeah, I don't know.

I had a lot of questions.

Same.

Yeah.

Same.

Maybe Nike will start making them.

Please.

The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson.

I narrowed it down to either if you have an idea that can save the world, don't put them in cocktail napkins in your bra, I think, is a good life lesson.

And then change up your aliases.

Don't stick with the Saint gimmick.

Like, if I become a spy,

I'm not just going to use dream team basketball player names.

It's like, today I'm Carl Malone.

Tomorrow, I'm Christian Leitner.

Oh, we saw there's a Kevin Love on a flight to Moscow.

It's like, no, I'm not, I'm not, you're not going to be able to solve my aliases.

I'm just going to use different aliases.

It kind of looks like evil spy Bill Simmons.

Nope.

Says right here, Clyde Drexler, let him pass.

That's it.

All right.

They're tight.

It's ridiculous.

Hey, you're doing it that way.

You kind of want to get caught.

Like, what's the upside?

The upside is you guys are so stupid.

I was using saint aliases the whole time and you didn't figure it out.

Like, it's like this weird arrogance.

Yeah, it's, it's, I think you hit it right.

It'd be like if you, you just did, you know, my secret thing is I do Red Sox outfielders.

They'll never find out.

I guess they will.

There's only so many Catholic saints.

It's not that many.

I'm using Get Up Partners of Peter Schrager.

Do you want to do a rewatchables of just tomorrow's episode of Get Up?

We're just going to have to have him come on and do one with us.

He's probably not allowed.

Double feature choice.

Mine's controversial, so you go first.

So is mine.

All right.

I think it's like,

we're bringing it full circle about Val Kilmer.

Like, once I see this and I see him play these little characters and do these voices, I'm putting on Tombstone.

I'm ready to play for Blood.

I'm Huckleberry.

I'm fucking ready.

In Vino Veritas, I'm going to watch Tombstone.

Mine is the island of Dr.

Moreau.

Come on.

No, it really is.

Make the case.

I'm the only person who likes this movie.

I have nobody to do it on the Rewatchables with.

And the only reason I like it was because it it was on that pay-per-view channel and I had it on all the time.

And I became fascinated by it.

And just the concept of this island where they were basically mating

humans and animals.

And then these hybrid kind of creatures were on the island.

But then Marlon Brando's there and it's the end of his career.

It's falling apart.

He's just fat and crazy in every scene.

And then Kilmer's in it with this look like, what's wrong with my career?

I think you might need to give it one more chance.

Even as someone who hasn't seen it, I know there's one part of it that you're forgetting.

Isn't it the world's smallest man, isn't it?

Like a very small human being.

Is that the guy who became friends with Pedro Martinez?

Is that the same guy?

Not positive.

Yeah, or it's like his brother.

Yeah, I don't know.

Right, yes.

So I know he's in it, but I've never seen it.

I got to say, Bill, probably not going to be seeing that movie at some point.

I don't think

I might have to solo that pod.

I might just have to do it myself like I did with Castaway during COVID.

I might just have to do the self Dr.

Moreau.

It's a better play.

Any free time I have, I'm trying to allocate to Jim Cotta.

I can't dedicate it to Dr.

Moreau.

I'm trying to put it all towards Jim Cotta.

That's for you, too.

Well, I was mailing you pictures of Billy Jacoby this week, trying to get you properly excited for that.

We know that's coming down the road.

We're definitely doing just one of the guys this spring is happening.

Dude, listen, it was locked.

And then Val Kilmer passed away.

Like it changed the whole schedule.

I had takes already.

I was, I was ready.

We'll get there.

It'll happen.

All right.

Who won the movie?

Val Kilmer.

Val Kilmer, the late, I hate saying this, the late, great Val Kilmer.

I agree.

I miss you, Val.

Thanks for doing this on short notice.

Thanks to Jesse Lopez and Craig Horlbeck for producing.

Don't forget, you can always watch these on video on the Spotify platform.

And you can check out the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well.

So next time you're on probably just one of the guys, something we're going back to the 80s.

We've done too many modern.

We're not modern people.

Let's go back to our favorite decade.

Kyle Brandt, great to see you as always.

Thanks, man.

You too.

Thanks, man.