‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town, on the Ringer Podcast Network.

My name is Matt Bellany.

I'm founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter.

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Every week, we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about.

We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight, which streamer is on the brink of collapse, and which executive is on the hot seat.

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The Rewatchables brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find the big picture with Sean Fennessy.

Yes.

Breaking down the most boring Oscar season in years.

What do you mean?

Deadly boring.

Wide open.

We don't know who's going to win.

This is great.

All the oppo researchers flying around.

I won't be talking about one of these movies 10 years from now.

Well, that may be true.

That may be true.

I am excited for Shalomay.

Yeah.

I'm excited for Demi Moore.

Yeah, I'm excited for the Oscars movie.

Come on, come back and come on.

Back.

Back.

If Timmy wins, that'll be fun.

Will he come on the pod

or after?

Can he win?

He can win.

Yeah, he can win.

Who's the favorite now?

Adrian Brody for the brutalist.

Did Do you do it yet?

Did you fire it up?

I need after football season.

Okay.

Let me get through football season.

Especially in the football game last year.

This Celtic swoon.

That's an alarm.

It's an alarm, but it's not alarming, right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Are you a playing team or no?

We're here to bond over love, right?

And the possibility of love.

CR, what are you up to?

I do the watch podcast.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

The men's health pod.

Interesting.

You're looking fit today.

Yeah.

You can find this podcast and all the movie stuff we do on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel.

A great channel, which we're going to be trying to spruce up during 2025.

Subscribe to that coming up

before sunrise.

Three guys getting romantic about a romantic movie.

Let's go.

I have no idea what your situation is, but I feel like we have some kind of connection.

Yeah, me too.

So listen, here's the deal.

This is what we should do.

You should get off the train with me here in Vienna and come check out the town.

Since we're never going to see each other again, I don't think we should sleep together.

Let's see each other again.

Castle Rock Entertainment presents Ethan Hawke and Julie Delphi in a new romantic comedy from Richard Linklater.

Before Sunrise, rated R.

At Select Theaters Friday.

All right, this is an I Remember Where I Saw This in What Theater I Was In movie.

It's a movie that describes your view of life, both when you saw it and then all the years later.

It's a true classic.

It's before sunrise.

It's a all-time Gen X movie.

It's a great 90s movie.

It's aged perfectly.

And I almost don't even think we need to do the pod.

I have no notes.

See you later.

What's aged it worst?

I was like, nothing.

Zero?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a very, have you ever started an episode like that?

Thinking...

you didn't start the Godfather episode like that.

This movie, we had a, we had a mail, when we did the Rewatchables mailbag, there was that person who had that, they wanted to add the category about did this movie achieve perfection?

It didn't have to be a perfect movie, but for what the movie was

trying to do too.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's some good cigarettes.

But for what the movie was trying to do,

did it achieve it?

Did it throw basically a no-hitter?

And I think this movie achieved every single thing it wanted to do

with the added bonus that it endured 30 years later.

That it's still, even though, you know, they don't have phones, they don't have, they're not texting, but for the most part, this is a watchable movie now, even for people like my daughter.

Yeah.

You know, this was in theaters while pulp fiction was still in theaters.

Wow.

So probably incredibly a formative moment for all of our lives.

But this movie is pretty unique in that not only do you watch it and you're like, oh, I remember seeing it or I remember the impact it had on me,

it's overwhelming because you watch it and you're also like, I remember who I was.

Do you know what I mean?

Like literally, there is a degree to which you kind of see a lot of the things that you were feeling at that time or would go on to feel very shortly afterwards, like reflected.

on screen.

It's different than dazed and confused that way.

You know, it's that it's not a period piece in my mind, even though Zoe might watch it and be like, oh, so tell me about what the 90s were like and stuff like that.

We're watching it.

We're like, this is a photograph

of the way people used to talk and the way people used to kind of act.

It's so mind-blowing to see these days.

It reminded me of a few movies that you guys have done over the years that felt like they were their own subgenre.

So singles was one of these movies.

Kicking and screaming was one of these movies.

Reality Bites was one of these movies.

They're not all the same.

They have like different tones.

Some of them are more comedic.

Some of them are more sincere.

But the

like emotional philosophical hangout movie was very present because independent cinema was getting to be a huge part of American movies.

And these were kind of easy movies to make.

You know, they didn't cost a lot of money.

You just needed a couple of attractive people who knew, who seemed, who, who could seem smart.

Yeah.

And

I'm wondering if this is the best possible version of that kind of a movie.

I think it is.

Well, when I think about those movies, and you mentioned some of them, and also this Gen X era, and obviously I was the age, I was probably a year older than Jesse when I saw this movie, but

it's all pre-internet to me.

It's this time capsule of what life was like before email and text and everything else showed up.

And

people were really lost just trying to find like connections.

You would just go to a bar and hope you ran into somebody.

You would meet some girl or if you're a girl, some boy.

And you'd be like, maybe this is the one.

But you'd have no idea.

And you wouldn't even know if they tried to call you again.

And it's like, was my, oh, my answering machine didn't work.

There was just this sense of, if I meet somebody, is this going to last?

Is this going to get screwed up?

If they, if I lose their number, will I ever see or hear from them again?

All of these things that made like the, the value of a connection,

I, I, I really think we valued it more back then.

I hate to be like the old man on the lawn, but it feels like it's so much easier to connect with whoever.

You can go on the internet.

You can find your people.

wherever you really couldn't in the early 90s.

So if you met somebody like this in one day, it was like the most important thing that ever could have happened to you.

Yeah, it's also these people are at an age, that 18 to 25 or whatever age period where like everything that happens to you feel like, feels like it's the first time it's ever happened to anyone.

And there's a moment in the opening, just few scenes of this film where Jesse is talking about how it's been a bad trip to Europe, but he's liked sitting on the train and having ideas.

Right.

And I was like, I don't remember the last time I did that.

Like, if I'm ever on a mode of transportation or have any downtime i'm usually like looking at my phone have my headphones in texting with somebody i know like i'm in constant contact with this external world right and i was like holy i completely forgot being bored out of my mind yeah you have a book both of them when they meet each other they're both reading a book that's kind of what you did if you're on a train what else are you gonna do yeah it's not like you'd be like oh i'm gonna go on instagram you know you were kind of stuck with your thoughts some book or a magazine you had and or some conversation with somebody like in a train like that it's like maybe i'll sit next to somebody i remember flying places in the 90s and you'd sit next to somebody talk to them for three hours and be like all right i'll see you later and that was it you never thought about them again because it was like ah that killed three hours now you would just kill the three hours on your own i don't know if it's better

than inside sports right what is that

well i think what did they think of the sun is that a razor reddick article i think it's

i think it's 95

what you're saying that, you know, it was impossible to distract yourself in the ways that we can now, right?

And that there is like an inherent bad for our ability to socialize or be connected to other people.

But then it was, it's just, it's also 5% just being 21 or 23, where you don't.

And idealistic.

Right.

And you have not been destroyed by the world yet.

You don't have a lot of money.

So you don't really have a lot of options.

So you have to make good with what you have.

And you don't have a lot of responsibilities that are otherwise weighing down that idealism.

You know, these are people with no jobs, no kids, no boyfriends or girlfriends.

You know, their parents are alive.

Everyone's healthy.

Like they're at this point in your life where like you can and probably should just fuck around a little bit.

Yeah.

And both literally and figuratively.

And the movie really captures this time of like no responsibility.

The fact that Celine can just get off the train in a foreign land with some guy she met for 20 minutes

and wander.

And she's getting off the train before a nine-hour trip.

And she's like, you know what?

I'm just going to, I'll, I'll go to the hotel.

I don't have anything going on until Tuesday.

I'm booked through February.

I can remember like winning, even Jesse just being like, I don't have enough money for a hotel, so I was just going to walk around Vienna all night until it's time to go to the airport.

And then sleep outside.

That would be like a pretty.

Something would have gone really wrong if that was like the circumstance I found myself in now.

And that was like fucking romantic back then.

But this is why Ethan Hawk was the Gen X X hero, because he played this character and he played Troy.

And Troy was what did Troy say, all I need is a cup of coffee, a pack of cigarettes, and five bucks.

Laney?

Laney is all I need.

And that was what all that character needed, right?

This guy, he's like, yeah, I'm just going to ride the train for an extra two weeks.

I'm just going to walk around Vienna tonight.

Maybe I'll sleep on the thing.

But that's kind of what a lot of people were like back then.

Were you like that?

No,

sports was too important to me.

I was always a mixture.

But if I was him, I would have been like, I got to get back.

Sports are too important.

Like, you need to get back.

That's like round one NBA is coming up.

Yeah.

Oil Cam Boyd is throwing it out.

I can't ride this train anymore.

Clements is pitching.

Mike Greenwell and Ellis Burks are really going to fucking put it together.

Big picture, though, with this movie.

And it's really this.

One other thing I love about this movie, and we, by the way, we're just going to talk about this movie because we want this movie to stand on its own.

Obviously, there were some sequels.

But one thing with this movie, as you age with it, but your feelings on love have aged too.

And if you see this when you're in your teens, like you don't even know what love is yet, if you see this in your 20s, that's when you're the most hardcore into,

I kind of know who I am and I'm ready to be in love.

So if you see this at the perfect time, this movie would be like your movie.

And then as you get older, you're like, oh, those two, they're not going to last.

Like you said, you start becoming more cynical, right?

So it's, and they,

the only time I'll bring up the sequel, he mentions in the beginning about the difference between a romantic and a cynic

that's how you see this movie are you a romantic or a cynic so when you saw this were you a romantic or a cynic see i think that when i saw it

it i didn't see jesse as cynical like i thought jesse was just being cool you know like in this movie and then as you grow older you kind of see him

He's working a little bit.

Yeah, it's like this is like your cynicism is in of itself.

It's like the thing from singles where it's like, like, I think your thing is not having a thing.

It's like Jesse's thing is pretending like this is love is bullshit, or that, like, because of his parents, it's like he thinks that romantic love is basically a fallacy, but he's the most romantic person in the world.

And he's got his five or six bits that he's clearly done with other people.

Yeah.

It's like, hey, souls, what's going on there?

Hey, everybody.

Please remember Tim Du Barto.

Really, Jerry Seinfeld.

I think that's exactly right.

I mean, he, both of them show

both sides of those two ideas.

They both, you know, Celine and Theory, oh, the ethereal French girl should be the most romantic person in the world, but she's also protecting herself with a certain kind of pragmatism throughout the entire movie.

And they both kind of bounce back and forth.

I was having this conversation with my wife last night, and I feel like the movie is like 51% Celine's ultimately, and 49% Jesse's.

And in the future movies, you could say, which direction does it go in?

But this movie ultimately has that

drop of romance that outweighs the cynicism that is always being debated.

That they're always, he's, you know, Jesse is always circling back to the palm reader bullshit.

Even the poem, there's the hint of like, are we sure about this guy?

You know, like all the moments that

in the wrong hands would make for like the worst movie ever.

Oh my God.

Like, if this was not a Richard Linklater movie, it could have been a disaster because of the sincere, borderline, sentimental steps that the characters take.

But ultimately, I think they both have

the desire to love and be loved.

And they both know that you have to protect yourself in the world because people will hurt you.

Yeah, because Jesse's just gotten his heart broken.

So he's going around being like, there's no palm reading.

There is no poetry.

He's had that poem.

Like none of this stuff is, this is all bullshit.

You made a key point there, though, about sentimental working or not working in a movie.

We've seen people, Cameron Crow is a great example.

Almost famous.

All the sentimentality works in that movie.

And then he makes Elizabeth Town, and it's a lot of the same beats, and none of it works.

It's really hard to pull off like somebody's falling in love with somebody else.

You see it in a lot of movies, and it takes place over the course of weeks, months, however they do it.

I don't remember another movie where it's like, this is about the immediate experience of falling for somebody over the course of a night, basically.

And I don't remember another movie that.

nailed it like this.

No, I mean, the best part about it is the fact that even though they obviously have like an instant connection, which is partially just due to like the circumstances of the train car in which they meet and the other couple fighting,

they have a pretty awkward first 30 minutes of the movie when they're first working around Vienna and it's like, now what?

You know, like, this movie is a series of now whats, which is what's so great about it.

It's like every time they achieve some sort of point that in another movie would have been like, it's all building up to a kiss or it's all building up to sex or it's all building up to this.

They actually deal with like what happens next for the most part and i think it it makes it that much more effective because they do so at the end if you think they're seeing each other in six months when the movie ends not knowing what happens in the sequels

if you if you leave that movie and you go they're going to see each other in six months i would say you're a romantic

and if you leave the movie going nah one of them's gonna this up I would say you're a cynic.

And it's weird how that one decision at the end probably determined

more about the viewer than it does about the movie.

Do you remember having a take on it when you left the theater?

Yeah, I was like, I really hope.

I was like, probably the most idealistic when I saw this movie.

And I was like, I hope they're going to make it.

But to this day, the movie drags you back to that feeling of romanticism.

Like, I was kind of just laughing to myself watching the movie again.

You guys know me.

I'm very rounded and very cynical about certain things.

You would not have liked the fortune teller.

No, I would have, I would have been, I identify with Jesse a lot in this.

Poetry, you'd have been like, oh, he wrote that already.

Yeah, I really identify with him a lot in many ways.

But

the same way that Jesse can't help but feel

lifted up, you know, taken away by this person who he's encountered who is just like filling him up with all of this hope and excitement, the movie does the same.

Like

it softens a hard heart.

So what was your, do you remember the first time you saw this?

What was your takeaway?

Would they see each other in six months?

Well, it's complicated for me because I can't remember the first time I saw it.

And so I don't, I didn't see it in a movie theater.

I definitely saw it on VHS.

And I don't know the circumstances under which I saw it.

Did I see it with a girl?

Maybe.

I don't remember.

Like, did we watch it in my parents' basement?

Maybe.

So I don't have the same, I just wasn't old enough, just being a little bit younger.

Whereas the next film, I remember everything about that.

So we did kicking and screaming a while ago.

A little bit similar.

We don't know whether Grover's going to go to Prague.

To Prague to

chase his old girlfriend down, and they kind of leave it ambiguous.

This was a very 90s thing.

It's like, you're going to, we're going to bring these characters in your life.

You're going to fall for them.

And then

you will never know what happens.

We'll see.

Yeah.

Did they still do the will see?

They don't do it the same way anymore.

I don't feel it.

I don't feel like we'll see is a

huge

move.

This is a huge spoiler alert for a movie that not everybody has seen yet.

So if you don't want a Nora spoiled for you, but like that ends in an intriguing way in that very specific respect, where you don't know what happens to the characters next.

But it's, it's, to your point, it's really rare.

Were you, did you, do you remember if you had a girlfriend, like a long-term girlfriend, when you saw this?

I had a girlfriend when I saw this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It is, it was one of those movies that also makes you reevaluate whoever you're dating at the time.

It made me, I was, yeah, I, it was my first real girlfriend I had.

It was my senior year of high school.

And I was like,

I'm, I'm pretty into this.

Like, I was, I was, I, I thought, like, you weren't like, she's not the one for me.

No, I mean, it wasn't that as much as it was just like

being in love seems so cool.

And it just kind of like, it made me feel happy to have a girlfriend.

I think if I had been alone, I would have been like, uh, fuck.

That's how I felt for kicking and screaming.

I remember leaving the theater.

I was like, oh my God, I got to get a job.

One thing that, one quote from this movie.

Being with you has made me feel like I'm somebody else.

Jesse says that.

I always thought that was a great quote and a good example of like when you meet somebody like this, you have no, they don't know any of your baggage.

They don't know anything.

They're just seeing you as this fresh thing and you, and you kind of learn from your past mistakes, especially if you're in that like 23 to 25 range.

You've had some swings and some misses.

You've, you've run some goal line offense plays that didn't work.

You've tried to make some stuff work out of the shotgun on third and 14.

You kind of know what plays to run a little bit more.

Yeah.

Kellen Moore has it dialed by that point.

Right.

There's no, there's no basketball reference for

your playoff record.

And you could just meet this person and just start fresh with some of the, and Jesse's at that perfect point.

And not to bring up the second movie again, but it's one of the interesting things about the second movie is how they're not doing some of the stuff they're doing in the first movie where a lot of it is, they're not, I don't want to say bits.

But it's a lot of like people kind of talking out of their ass in a really fun way.

Yeah.

And then in the second movie, it's not like that.

it's definitely an extension of that like dorm room kind of like philosophy hanging out on hallway three in the morning like i have five like you said i have like five or six things that i think are pretty uniquely cool that i've got going on in my head even if i'm wrong yeah and i'm just gonna keep trying them out on people until it clicks that's slinklater's stock and trade through his first five movies you know slacker that's all a slacker is is just people popping into cabs and walking into bars and being like here's my theory of the world yeah you know that's what waking life is that's what dazed is.

You know, think about Rory Slater riffing on George Washington and, you know, growing weed, like all that stuff.

It's all like, he came up with like a thousand theories.

Dazed is, we have to read Dazed at some point, by the way.

It's still one of the best movies ever, but he, um, he's like an accumulator of people's cool anecdotes, yeah, and he knows how to reprocess them.

Same Sherry's good at too.

Same.

Um, but then the other thing, too, that I think makes it so special, I'm sure we'll talk about it.

Casting actors who could write with him to make these people real is like the whole, it's the whole thing.

It's the whole movie.

It's the reason why it works.

It's the reason why that sentimentality stuff works.

Like he's just the whole movie just feels like it's happening in front of you for real.

And there's so few movies that you can really say that about.

So it just goes a long way.

It has a real angle on love.

And I think if I had to summarize the theme of this movie, it's

obviously about connection, but she says that thing about how she worked for the old man.

And once he told me that he spent his whole life thinking about his career and his work, and he was 52, and it suddenly struck him that he had never really given himself of giving anything of himself.

His life was for no one and nothing.

He was almost crying saying that, which I think is the point of the movie.

It's like, if you don't connect with somebody, your fucking life's going to suck.

And it doesn't matter how successful you are.

Because Jesse, he gets that question later.

Would you rather be...

Would you rather be really good at something or would you rather find a connection?

And I think that's, I think that's what whatever Link later cared about, I think that was it.

Cause he'd probably had a little bit of a success, but he also hadn't found anybody that,

you know, he was with, and he was probably battling that somehow became the movie.

Yeah, I mean, the thing that Celine says to Jesse in the alley when they're talking about whether they would have families or what their futures might be like, and she's like,

if there's any kind of God, it wouldn't be in any of us, not you or me, but just in the space in between.

So this idea that it's like the effort to become connected connected to somebody is where like this almost like holy holy magic exists.

Well, that's why she's the rock of the movie in a lot of ways.

Yeah, she's able to articulate these incredibly accomplished.

She's just better at explaining her point in life, but he's more interesting at it.

Yeah.

And the combo is really good.

Jesse's doing power ranking.

Yeah, he's really good at the gimmicks, and she's really good at the meat of the conversation.

Jesse's like, here's why Josh Allen should have thrown a Shakir.

She is talking about Shaka.

She's like, it's not about the orbit.

It's about the orbit of love.

Forget the orbit route.

You don't know what it's like to get.

Movie characters I always wanted to meet in real life, but they didn't exist in real life.

Celine's way up there.

God, she's so beautiful.

She's so great.

Conversely, I think I would have absolutely melted into a fucking puddle if I had met Celine at like age 24.

It would have been lights lights out.

I don't even know if I would have had the balls to do what Jesse did.

He had even talked to her in the train.

Yeah.

Once that accent came out and she was so interesting, I just would have been like, oh my gosh.

She's like perfect English.

That's the thing.

I think the reason that Jesse comes to life in the movie is because you can tell fairly early on, in part because she agrees to get off the train with him, but even before that, that great feeling when you're like, this person's into me.

Yeah.

You know, not just romantically, but just any connection you make with a person where you're like, this person's actually interested in what I'm saying.

That gives you like a jolt.

And they communicated so well because I think she's like, they're both reading

and she doesn't like immediately go back to her book.

She like turns towards him to like be like, all right, let's keep talking.

Yeah.

And he's like, I can't believe this is happening.

This is crazy.

Ultimate Gen X movies.

Slacker, singles, reality bites, kicking and screaming, clerks, before sunrise, maw rats, swingers.

Yeah, you could throw a few.

You've thrown a couple, but I think this could be 20, it could be 12, it could be, but I feel like those eight have to be at least eight of the eight, eight of the whatever the final number is.

All movies about people in their early 20s talking about pop culture and love and existence, basically.

Kind of wandering around life, hoping to connect with whoever.

Yeah, right.

That's the theme, ultimately.

Link later, you mentioned Slacker days before sunrise.

That's the first three for him.

Solid.

Yeah.

He's good job, Rick.

He's 34 when this movie is being made.

This has got to be one of the most wise movies ever made by a person that young.

Because it's not that what the characters are saying is wise, because it is very idealistic and very lovey-dovey at times and very like, you know, just ripped a bong hit and started talking about souls.

But knowing that that is how you are when you're 24 and being able to reflect on it 10 years later and like metastasize it is amazing to me.

I mean, he's like in the 1%

of

capturing how young people really are in the world.

It's also really cool to go and look at this movie and think about like 99 out of 100 other directors would have done so many things differently.

There would have been more montages.

There would have been more cuts.

There would have been

some sort of like,

I don't know, like there would, there would be a crescendo to the film that was, this movie has like five crescendos.

This movie peaks like five times, six times.

Sometimes it's intellectually, sometimes it's sexually, sometimes it's, but like every other filmmaker, and then when you're watching it though, you're not overtly aware of him doing anything.

It's not like you're like, oh, wow, the camera hasn't cut in a while.

You're just like completely locked in with their conversation.

It's almost invisible filmmaking.

Well, it's weird to be an indie director, especially from this era, and not and also be a romantic

and not have like weird shit in the movie.

Cause that was another thing that the 90s, you know, couldn't resist throwing in some sort of weird monkey wrench.

There are no monkey wrenches in this movie.

Yeah.

Where was the gimp in this movie?

You know, right?

I think the poet.

Yeah.

Hawk, Dead Poets, which we've done.

We talked about the position he was in when he did Alive.

We did Reality Bites too.

Dead Poets, Mystery Date, Way Fang.

Then he has Alive Reality Bites.

Stuff's happening with them, but this cemented it.

I think after this movie, even though it didn't make a shitload of money.

But I think the combo of this and Reality Bites and Alive, it felt like he was a young star.

That led to Gattaca and then it kept going.

it but I don't think he ever really like

shakes this off until Turning Day you know what I mean like I don't think I agree I think training day was like in some ways like he needed it brought him into adulthood it did but I still think this is like his most perfect creation as a character oh yeah like it so beautifully capitalizes on the Ethan Hawk thing which is that he looks like the coolest guy of all time but once he starts talking you're like wow this guy's like kind of insecure yeah and a little bit all over the place emotionally and really well read but maybe insecure about that too.

Like, he, it's like, it's just like when you talk to Ethan Hawk in real life and you're like, wow, he's really cool, but he's more like me than he is a movie star.

Yeah.

Which is a unique quality that he brings to movies.

The other thing I'm just worth noting is that I think you could put Hawk and Link Later up there with any of the great director-actor duos.

Totally.

Would they do 10 movies together?

Nine.

Yeah.

But also, like, they're telling one big story.

Like, Jesse's backstory is the story of boyhood.

Do you know what I mean?

Jesse's parents divorcing and that impacting how he looks at the world and everything his dad and his mom told him about love.

That's just the movie Boyhood.

It's like a couple of, you know, a decade or so later.

So they're just basically working on like one American male project.

Let's take a break and then a couple more things.

We'll get to get the categories.

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all right so we talked about uh hawk and link later so it took them nine months to settle on hawk and delpie we'll get to some of the casting widows with that but um

but he was this movie was like impeccably rehearsed he spent a ton of time with them they had a script they had a screenplay some stuff was added after um

julie delpie was talking about would is anyone actually going to like this this isn't going to be boring to just watch us and hawk said link later said

we're not making the movie for them we don't have to tell any jokes we don't have to be interesting you guys don't even have to act he wanted to make a power make a film about the power of connection and that was all he cared about and i don't even my guess is he never probably thought this was even going to be a big movie i think he wanted it to be a great movie but i don't think he was thinking oh my god we're going to crush opening weekend we could take it i don't i mean he's not a careerist filmmaker even though he does make mainstream movies yeah every once in a while there's a bad news bears remake in there where you're like why'd he do that he dips in there to be in the mainstream sometimes but i don't ever think of him as like trying to get butts in seats or whatever um but this one is particularly unusual because dazed wasn't a big hit but it was an instant cult classic and it was made for a big studio and this is something smaller i really liked that quote i don't know if you saw this that martin schafer who was the co-founder of castle rock yeah again there's like how many castle rock movies have we done on this podcast um it's like the best production company uh But he was like, this movie was almost the rejection of or opposite of what romantic comedies were at the time.

Like it didn't fall into any of those traps.

And so when I read the script, I was just like, I want to do this because it isn't like, you know,

the Julia Roberts era, Meg Ryan, While You Were Sleeping, like all those movies that were so popular at that time, it was not doing those jokes.

All those movies are like so high concepts.

Yes.

All the tropey stuff that was in them and like, I'm just a man standing before a woman and all that.

Like it didn't, it's not about that.

It's about something much more down to earth and and also well it's also just wild to watch this compared to like say anything where like say anything has like the whole nursing home plot and all these other things going on and it has like a big joke joe kept lying yeah joe joe why did you lie

and like there's like there's a huge gesture with the boom box Like this is devoid of all of that stuff.

It's just the talking.

It's just this, these two people growing closer.

I remember being super excited to see it in the theater because it had some Sundance momentum and I knew about that because that was there when you were reading all the movie stuff.

But I also really liked Ethan Hawk.

I liked him in Dead Poets.

I liked him in Reality Bites and I liked him in Alive.

And I'm like, I'm ready.

I'm ready for the next journey with him.

And that was kind of all I knew.

And the movie, you know, surpassed all of that.

Had you seen Killing Zoe or Killing Zoe?

Because Julie Delphi is in that.

I think I had, but I don't remember having a huge opinion on her.

She'd been in a lot of really big

art house films in Europe.

She was in white.

She's in a number of movies.

But I love that story that Ethan Hawk tells about this movie, which is that when he was in Dead Poets, Peter Weir encouraged him to write for his character.

He was like, Write backstory, write lines for your character.

I want to hear what you think this character would say.

And he was blown away by that experience.

And he was like, wow, I guess this is how every movie is.

And then he went on and did like White Fang.

And they were like, sir, please keep your lines to yourself.

We don't need this.

And so the reason he did this movie, even though he could have been doing much bigger movies, is this, after meeting Link later, they became fast friends.

And he he was like, I want you to write this with me.

And he was like, That's all I want.

I want to be in the creative process of the movie.

Well, Link Later, he wrote it with Kim Crazan.

They wrote it on 11 Days, but they didn't know the ending until the final day of filming.

And then they kept tweaking it.

Do you know who she is, by the way?

Kim Crazan?

Who is it?

She's the teacher in Dazing Confused, who at the end of the day.

Yeah.

She's awesome.

Yeah, she's great.

She's in the CR zone of throw my life away.

Really?

The Falco Copland?

This movie premiered at Sundance 1995.

I'm going to read the list of movies that premiered that year and see if Sean passes out.

Before Sunrise, The Usual Suspects, The Brothers McMullen,

Kids from Larry Clark, Safe from Todd Haynes, The Doom Generation, The Addiction,

Party Girl, Little Odessa, Muriel's Wedding, and Crumb.

Wow.

These were at Sundance?

Yeah, same year.

That's insane.

I mean, if you're...

Do you come back from that festival?

It's like, what happened to Sean?

He died at Sundance.

He would have come back and like,

the culture is changing, you know, like, or something.

I mean, this is specifically, I'm sure I've said versions of this on the show before, but like, this is specifically why I became obsessed with movies is that this thing was happening in 93, 94, 95.

And I was reading all the magazines and being like, how do I get closer to that?

How do I, because if you see, like, little Odessa or The Addiction.

You're like, I don't know.

There are movies like this.

You know, you never, you could have never imagined.

And this movie is one of those movies, too.

Party girl.

our girl.

I saw this and I was like, I just have to, I obviously have to get a URL pass.

Yeah.

You've got to become an Austrian man.

$2.5 million budget, made $22.5 million.

Everyone in this film jokes that it was the lowest grossing film ever to get a sequel.

I don't know if that's factually true.

I'm sure there was some

junky trauma movies.

I mean, 10 exits money.

I mean, I think that's the penitentiary too with Leonis and Kennedy happen.

So I'm just saying, I'm sure there were some sequels.

Roger Ebert.

Disappointing start to the year for Raj.

Three stars.

Thought for sure it'd be the three and a half.

A little more muted in his praise.

Yeah.

He wrote,

this sort of scenario has happened, I imagine, millions of times.

It has rarely happened in a nicer, sweeter, more gentle way.

than in Richard Link Later's Before Sunrise, which I would call a love affair for Generation X.

You're fucking a right, Raj.

Except that Jesse and Celine stand outside their generation,

especially outside its boring insistence on being bored.

Yo, Raj.

Are you thinking about maybe asking shots fired at Gen X?

Ask Deep Seek if Raj has changed his mind in heaven.

Well,

he did write that Delpy is ravishingly beautiful and more important, warm and matter of fact.

And he says, this is Link Later's third film.

He's on to something.

He likes the way ordinary time unfolds for people as they cross paths start talking share their thoughts and uncertain philosophies rod boom rog roger ebert was 53 when this movie came out i think that's notable yeah you know we've always talked about like why are 50 something movie critics reviewing billy madison you know like that's just not that doesn't make sense that doesn't like that that movie's not for them um and you could make the case that this is a movie not for not for 55-year-old men right you know

they couldn't get a grasp on Gen X.

Nicely enough, it is now, though.

It is now.

It has aged nicely.

Categories.

New category.

We have some new ones because we had that mailbag.

Thanks to everybody who

sent ideas.

What's the exact perfect age to see this movie?

I think it would you have freshman,

I would actually say summer after freshman year of college.

You want to be aware that people do study abroad semesters slash go over to Europe to go backpacking or traveling around.

But I don't think you want to have done it yet because then you may have like too many takes on like what Jesse did or didn't do right.

But like if you just are like going into college or in college, I think that's the perfect time.

I wrote down 24 because the two characters are 24.

I will say I saw it probably when I was 14 or 15.

The thing that it does, if you're 14 or 15, is it's almost like a playbook.

You know, it's like, if you encounter a lady on a train, like these are some moves you can make.

And when you're 14 or 15, you don't have any moves.

You don't know what to do.

And so it almost, you like internalize some of this stuff.

And it can, I don't, so I don't think it's the best time, but I would say it was very helpful to watch in general, Ethan Hawk as Troy, as this guy, and be like, okay, is this an archetype that can work?

Like full of shit.

tall brown-haired guy.

Like, I'm a home.

Can I do this?

So that was nice.

but i think i think being i think being roughly where you were seemed right i wrote down 23.

okay

i was 25 when i saw it i think i i would have probably enjoyed it slightly more at 23 because you're like even a little bit more idealistic at 23 yeah but you are also

you have some of your full shit moves down at that point too but it's somewhere in that i would say early 20s but i gotta say it was super enjoyable to watch at my age now i was like wow

still this movie still got it most re-watchable scene so

this movie starts with a mid-40s couple fighting in a foreign language, and it somehow works.

Yeah, it's about, I think they're fighting about money.

No,

no, there's actually an answer to this.

What is it?

It's about drinking.

Oh, yeah.

Who's got the drinking problem?

The husband or the wife?

Did you want to do the translation?

I had this on WhatsApp the Best.

The man is reading in his newspaper how 70,000 women are addicted to alcohol, and he says, you're one of them to his wife.

And she volleys back and says, he's the alcoholic.

And he says, i have a reason to do it i'm married to you wow that's what they said the other language it's perfect it's perfect in so many ways for this film series but then it leads to

yeah for the series it's a really interesting way to start it um

but it leads to do you ever hear that when couples get older they lose the ability to hear each other which is one of those like might be true might not be true

Have you ever heard that as couples get older, they lose their ability to hear each other?

No.

Well, supposedly, men lose their ability to higher pitch sounds, and women eventually lose hearing on the low end.

I guess they sort of nullify each other or something.

I guess.

Nature's way of allowing couples to grow old together without killing each other.

But a good conversation.

I think hearing gets really worse.

I just think your hearing gets worse when you get older.

I don't know if it has anything to do with who you're with.

I now can't hear anything like when the water, like water is on.

Oh, me too.

It has the same problem.

Yeah.

It just so happens that my wife talks while that happens.

Next scene.

Jesse gets Celine to leave the train.

All right, all right.

Think of it like this.

Jump ahead.

10, 20 years, okay?

And you're married.

Only your marriage doesn't have that same energy that it used to have.

You know, you start to blame your husband.

You start to think about all those guys you've met in your life and what might have happened if you picked up with one of them, right?

Well, I'm one of those guys.

That's me.

You know, so think of this as time travel from then to now

to find out what you're missing out on.

See, what this really could be is a gigantic favor to both you and your future husband to find out that you're not missing out on anything.

I'm just as big as a loser as he is, totally unmotivated, totally boring, and you made the right choice and you're really happy.

Let me give my bag.

Jump ahead 10, 20 years, okay?

You're married.

Well, your marriage doesn't have that same energy that it used to have.

I sound like Klosterman.

Great, great, great way to get her to come off the train.

And then in the

pieces about it.

And some of the pieces about it, he said they really improv spitballed all kinds of scenarios for this and couldn't get Delpy in the right spot with

no I'd actually get off the train train for that.

And then they came up with this time machine thing.

She said he would have to show me that he was really smart.

He has to be smart and funny.

That's the only way I would get off the train.

The time traveler thing.

And she's like, okay, that I would get off the train for.

And then they were off.

Can you imagine if Julie Delpy was like, I don't believe it.

Sorry, not buying it.

You should have thrown a Shakir.

I'm sensing a new category coming up.

The Shakir, whatever.

Should Jesse have thrown a Shakir?

Next category, the long one-shot bus ride as Jesse does advanced metrics on souls.

Yeah.

I got to admit, Jesse kind of blew my mind in that way.

We paused the movie last night to discuss this.

It's the best experience I've ever heard in a movie.

It's like, yeah, he's right.

How many souls did we start out with?

Can we break it down very briefly?

Yeah.

The pivot is all living things have a soul.

Every leaf has a soul.

And that's how you explain it.

Is that fair?

Oh, so I used to be, I used to be a tree in Florida.

So I kicked that to my wife last night, and she was like, Yeah, but when the earth started, it was all just bacteria.

And I was like, I don't have a response.

Wow, like she just shut me down.

Like, she just nailed it scientifically.

Check out the big brain on Eileen.

This should just turn first take instead of talking about sports.

It should just be like Stephen and Mad Dog talking about souls.

I would listen to that.

Richard Linklater's first take would be amazing.

The long one-shot one-shot bus ride and just long one-shots like that in general from a rewatchable standpoint adds so much fun to the movie.

I was because I watched it twice leading up to the pod, and it's just so much fun to just watch the background and be like, did they cheat this?

No, they didn't cheat it.

It's all one shot.

And they basically did it like a play.

I love it.

I really respect it.

The movie starts where the graduate ends.

It was like them at the back of the bus.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

The listening booth scene.

That's my next one as well.

Which is my winner for most rewatches.

Yeah.

Interesting.

I would not have guessed that if I had to.

That scene's great.

No dialogue.

No dialogue and really smart and really well played.

Link later said it was the only time he withheld anything from the two of them.

About what the song was going to sound like?

They had never heard the song.

And he says you can really see them listening because they'd never heard that yearning creaky thing.

The singer is Kath Bloom.

Hawk said, it's probably my single favorite take of anything I've ever been involved with.

And then Delphi said that was really special.

It was like magic.

Every time I felt Ethan looking away, I would look at him and vice versa.

I almost fell in love with him right there.

But then Rick said, cut.

That's a whole separate podcast.

It's like the Hawk-Dolpey real life relationship.

Also talked about this a long time with my wife last night.

Like there had to have been one night where they got drunk and things happened.

I believe my question was over under.

How many times have they hooked up five?

And oh, I'd say at least at least three.

Did they date?

Did they date for like a week?

They're very, they're very circumspect about this.

Uma thing, too.

Yeah.

She doesn't come into the picture, I think, until 96.

Yeah, well, I don't want to.

There is no way that they didn't get drunk and had

at least a one-nighter.

That's no way.

That is the power of this movie: is that you absolutely believe in my heart of hearts, I'm like, they're actually soulmates.

Like, no matter what

those actors are.

There's one other movie, Jackie Brown, Bridget Fonda, and De Niro.

When he was fucking her standing up from behind, I was like, those two are soulmates.

What's her character's name?

Oh, my God.

I forgot.

De Niro's funniest moment ever in a movie.

She's fucking incredible in that.

She's great.

I can't wait to do that movie.

It's on the list.

I can't wait.

Listing booth is great.

And the fact that it was one take.

And that was all the first one, I just, I love that stuff.

Magical.

Amusement parks.

This is more good, Jesse theories.

Rich parents give their kids too much, poor parents don't give their kids enough.

There's nothing in the middle.

He's just whipping it all out at this point.

All his material.

Do you know any happy couples?

I like being at amusement parks just in general, a movie or a TV show.

Always a win.

You get to see good scenery.

A lot of people walk around.

The homeless poet.

My guy.

So

this poem is great.

Written by a real poet.

I went and I actually read it and it's just sweet cakes and milkshakes.

I'm a delusion angel.

I'm a fantasy parade.

Real beat stuff.

It is really good, like little short sentences.

Yeah.

I love patron delusion.

Coffee shop Bill.

Lizzie Island.

English major Bill.

Drop a tear in my wine glass.

Look at those big eyes.

See what you mean to me.

It's great stuff.

Shades of woman.

Whoa, man.

Yeah, this one.

I love it.

He's a homeless poet.

Thumbs up.

You know what kind of drugs it was.

Like, he's like, if this poet doesn't hit, I don't know if I'm going to be able to afford smoke.

Give me whatever you think is appropriate, too.

You know, not putting a price tag on it.

Love that era.

Next one.

Wait, so you skipped over the palm reading?

No, he skipped over the kiss.

Well, you said amusement park, which could include the Ferris wheel.

Yes.

But are you including the Ferris wheel?

Yeah, the sole amusement park.

Okay.

So you'd put Fortune Tower in there?

I love that scene.

Stardust.

I like the actress.

Yeah.

The Fortune Tower.

I've got her on a list here.

I should have put that in.

Here.

Great question

that is asked, would you rather find love or excel?

One thing, that whole scene.

You know, I believe if there's any kind of God, it wouldn't be in any of us.

Not you or me,

but just this little space in between.

If there's any kind of magic in this world, it must be in the attempt of understanding someone sharing something.

I know it's almost impossible to succeed, but

who cares, really?

The answer must be in the attempt,

right?

And your answer to that question was: you it's one great thing, and it's crushing tape.

That's what you do.

That's right.

You chose that over love.

He's breaking down Spaggs's defense.

Three blitzers overloaded on one side.

He's got to see that.

the fake phone calls.

Oh, yeah.

I like that.

Imagine telling Celine,

I want to best date with you.

I want to do this.

But in about 20 years, they're going to invest something called all 22.

And you're going to take over my life.

So I'm actually sparing you for later in happy.

The reverse time traveler.

I've seen the future and it's all 22.

They went empty backfield five wide.

I'm sorry, Celine, but I'm a ball knower.

Yeah.

Spags is blitzing.

He's five wide out.

Something's got to break.

This is incoherent to like 30% of the audience.

The fake phone call should not have worked, but I really enjoyed the scene.

It's really cute.

It's awesome.

It's really funny.

It's a really good gimmick.

It's one of those things, like if you're an inspiring screenwriter or director.

It's a dolphin thing, though.

She sells it.

She is so charming.

She's like,

she brought it.

She was like, I used to do this with my friends.

I like her American accent, too, where she's like, dude, Tony Kohler.

She's so good.

Jesse gets the bartender to give him a bottle of wine and it's great.

Got a lot of questions about that.

Yeah.

More wisdom from Celine in another scene

when she talks about love.

When you talked earlier about after a few years, how a couple would begin to hate each other by anticipating their reactions or getting tired of their mannerisms.

I think it would be the opposite for me.

I think I can really fall in love when i know everything about someone

the way he's gonna broil his hair which shirt he's gonna wear that day knowing the exact story to tell in a given situation

i'm sure that's when i know i'm really in love

idealistic great i mailed that to my wife and i said this is how i feel um when i know you're about to lose your keys

and she didn't think it was funny does your wife likes this movie loves it okay like an all-timer it might have been one of the first ones that we owned on dvd but she bought anyway on streaming it was one of those it was like a double one of the first double purchases we got to get her that criterion collection box set we have it okay

we have that now too

great great criterion like uh look at him getting really one of the media pens this is where i was going this is i mean this is what you happen when he when he's he's like now i must destroy sean and get i welcome three times?

No, because I'm only buying stuff.

Like, I go on Amazon, and when they have the, I have a certain price limit because I'm trying to not go crazy like Sean.

But, like, it's like total recall is 57% off today.

I'm like, fine.

$11.

This is how it starts.

I told you.

This is how it starts.

Fine.

You start looking at deals and then all of a sudden you're like, ah, $39.99.

Ah, $49.99.

I was like $17.

It's like, oh, all five?

For $40?

For the bonds.

For the bonds.

All five?

Yeah.

Whoa.

That's how it starts, man.

I love it.

I support you 100%.

Thank you.

I knew I'd have your support.

Last scene is the ending, which I think is just brilliant and would be my other trick for most of the time.

What do you consider part of the ending?

Do you go sex scene, statue, training?

No, I'm saying

the goodbye.

First when she's lying on his lap.

Yeah.

They drop the stuff off.

But I think the most genius part of this movie is when he shows all the places they were.

Yeah.

Love that.

Which is obviously stolen from John Carpenter and Halloween.

And I know that was a big influence on the movie.

Yeah.

But I thought it worked really well.

You know, Myers, Myers was there.

And then you're standing next to that hedge.

And Blink later is like, this could work for romance too.

You just saw Celine get on the train and then Michael Myers.

He's just right next to her.

Bring it all back.

Yeah.

But I love that.

Because I guess the point is like, you know, they gave all these places life.

They're not there anymore, but it's still fucking cool.

And hey, there's this memory that was in this spot, in this spot.

For the record, I think it's Michelangelo and Tonioni's Lake Clise, where they do that trick before Halloween.

Before Carpenter?

Yeah, just for the record.

Damn it.

What do you got for most of the movies before Halloween?

Yeah, I thought that was the first movie.

My first is the reverse of that.

It's the first train sequence.

It's them on the train getting to know each other because I just find it mesmerizing and so naturalistic.

CR was a big cafe card guy, too.

Yeah.

Just hit the cafe or something.

Oh, like I, this movie brought back to me that I just functioned off of like coffee and cigarettes from 2020.

CR was in the smoking car hoping for Julie Delpy.

I mean,

he wasn't.

What's your most rewatched movie?

Well, there was one small one that you skipped over that is sort of the end, but I really love the cut away.

to not showing whether they have sex or not.

And then they wander and they see a guy playing a harpsichord.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

And they see him in the window and then they do the let me take a picture of you which i think is like a mesmerizing moment yeah that you're right that's that i love that scene a lot my pick would probably be the listening booth too i love that one a lot what stage the best movies set on trains um i love a good train scene in a movie obviously i was riding a train back and forth as a parent as a child of divorce um I have a bunch of them.

CR, give me a couple.

Yeah, just Jesse as a tapesman, just Jesse having like lots of like, I have like a bunch of bits.

Here's, here's like, I have five of them.

This is, this is how I'm wrote.

Jesse going club Sheche.

Yeah.

And that was like me at my pod last night doing my Emmett Smith.

I was like, I'm going to do my Emmett Smith bit.

I stepped on this, but it was Jesse's story being the story.

that boyhood becomes yeah and the way that like his character kind of gets woven throughout link later's filmography are two two of my favorite things of aged best

i mean the ura rail have you been on the urel it's it's incredible it's just an amazing experience i recommend everyone try to do it even if you don't do it when you're 22 and idealistic it's just such a fun way to travel um i think specifically that letting your actors

casting actors who can write and letting them write with you is such a cool idea and it's you know mike lee does this in his movies too this is like a hack for sophisticated filmmakers.

Appentow does it.

A lot of really good directors do this.

And it's all about making the movie as good as it can be because the actors need to be fully on board with what you're the story you're trying to tell.

I think it's a little bit different when you're doing like a drama versus doing an Apatow movie because Apatau, it seems like they're really working like bits and they have like, let's riff on this or riff on that.

And this is like they have like character arcs that they really have to track in this.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, it seems like they worked really hard on it.

And then like the overlapping dialogue, it was kind of rehearsed to a T, like you said.

Also, just the

Vienna in the summer.

I had that with Sage the best.

Vienna.

Just amazing.

Seems great.

Yeah.

Vienna just gets wins left and right of the world.

Every culture.

Never been.

Yeah.

I went there on Easter weekend once.

It was shut down, so it was a lot like this, but it was very cold.

Interesting.

Also, French Girls.

I think that's aged well.

You know, just a beautiful blonde French girl on the train.

That's like, that's like an archetype.

Yeah, that 200 people.

I had movies that eventually have sequels where the characters age with the sequels.

It just, I don't feel like that recipe is lost yet.

Really hard to pull out.

Yeah.

We got Dr.

Loomis.

That's one.

Who else?

Who else is on the town two when that happens?

Yeah, Doug McCrae and Jim.

Jim.

Shine.

Yeah, shine and see what happened to shine now.

For what saves you best, the anonymous cemetery, I thought was cool because I just didn't know that story.

I always thought that was a neat idea for a cemetery.

So the film starts June 16th, 1994, and ends June 17th, 1994, which was also, we did it at 30-30 about that day.

That was the OJ car chase, the first day of the first U.S.

World Cup, Knicks Rockets game five, Rangers Stanley Cup parade, Arnold Palmer's last U.S.

Open round, and Jesse said goodbye to Celine.

All happened on June 17th, 1994.

Jesse, instead of going to the bar with Celine, Jesse's like, I really think maybe if I get to the airport, they're showing Knicks Rockets.

Or it's like the car chase is on the train.

During the course of this day, someone had come up to them and been like, you guys are not going to believe what's happening with OJ right now.

Do you think that they would have like

is Jesse from Texas?

I well, oh, that's it.

I had that for probably unanswered.

Where's Jesse from?

I can't remember if they were.

I was guessing like Ohio.

Oh, no, he said, does he say Ohio?

I think he, or maybe he goes to college.

It feels like he's like a Sacramento.

Like a Northern California somewhere.

I can't remember.

Maybe I thought he said.

I don't think he ever said that.

Jesse's from like Shaker Heights or something.

Okay.

Well, the other thing is that it's June 16th, I believe, because that's the day that a bunch of

James Joyce's Ulysses is set.

Just a couple quotes for what saves the best.

If none of your friends or family know you're dead, it's not like really being dead.

People can invent the best or worst for you.

That made me think.

That was deep.

You know what?

The worst thing about somebody breaking up with you, it's when you remember how little you thought about the people you broke up with, and you realize that's how little they're thinking of you.

That's one of the best quotes.

of any movie like this.

That's what I'm talking about with the wisdom of Link Later.

Like that line is insane.

Every person who hears that line can understand exactly where it's coming from.

If there's any magic in this world, it must be in the attempt of understanding someone.

Solid.

That's why I keep potting with you guys.

Great shot Gordon Award for most cinematic shot.

What do you got, CR?

I have Celine with her head in Jesse's lap in front of the Archduke Albrecht statue.

I had the wide shot of Jesse sitting on the railing talking to her with that like beautiful building behind them.

I thought it was really cool.

I think the ending's really good too.

And the

going down the cobblestone streets when there's a big dip and they've all been wedded, Michael Mann style.

Oh, yeah.

Kid Cutty Pursuit of Happiness, award for best needle drop, clearly the Kath Bloom song.

Box Sonata number one coming in at the end.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's a couple of classical pieces.

Like I said that, like, I just know all the sonatas.

I believe it.

I'm a ball knower when it comes to sonatas.

We have a new award.

You guys don't know about this one.

The Sean Fantasy Award.

Oh.

You finally got an award named after me.

I'm touched.

The Sean Fantasy Award for stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteriorgasm.

I came up with that word.

There are several in this movie.

Well, I thought for you, it'd be the Ferris wheel that they ride in Vienna is the same one used in The Third Man.

My favorite movie of all time.

There are several homages to The Third Man.

The listening booth you mentioned earlier has my darling Clementine.

Isn't that also it kind of echoes into the future with Mission Impossible when Tom Cruise goes into the listening booth?

Same thing, yeah, except he's not looking at anyone.

No, it's Fallout, right?

It's the one before that, I think, yeah.

Or maybe even maybe even the one before that.

It's the first one with Sean Harris.

Yeah, that's not, it's the one before Fallout, whatever that's called.

Anyway, sorry.

The fantasy word.

I'm

not criteriorgasm or criteriongasm?

I think I like criteriorgasm.

Yeah.

Criteriorgasm.

Criteriorgasm.

Stealth homage.

I'm touched.

With movie nerds.

What I want people to think when I'm talking about movies is that this is a sexual climax.

So I really feel honored.

New category from the mailbag.

The Chess Rockwell and Brock Landers Award for Best Character Name.

It's got to be Celine, right?

It's got to be Celine.

Easy.

All right, we're going to take a break and come back with yet another new category.

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all right coming back so we added this category uh after the mailbag

because we took out some categories but we also didn't want to remove them completely so what we're adding is a flex category for the uh for the other hosts that aren't me

cr you can flex any category that didn't make the blueprint cut

and roll with them.

Is this the place where I could talk about smoking?

It sure is.

Which one do you want to give out?

I think we need to give out the Jesse and Before Sunrise Award for the character that absolutely should have smoked but didn't.

This also could be the Chris Ryan award for would this movie be better if the main character smoked?

In my memory, I thought he was a smoker.

Well, because in reality he never smokes.

He chain smokes.

Why?

Okay, so I'm so glad you're talking.

I was a kid in 1995 in Europe where people smoke everywhere all of the time with a French girl who was probably still smoking as of like December of last year.

And there's not a cigarette between the two of them.

And they're watching this poet who's just like, all I do is smoke.

Everybody like, but these two people in 1995 don't smoke cigarettes.

This is not only a nitpick,

not only a probably unanswerable question, but it's also the Chris Ryan award.

I don't understand the choice other than maybe Ethan Hawk felt like he smoked so much in reality bites, he's like, I don't want to be typecast as the guy who's just sucking.

But he probably smoked back then.

That's a good thing.

It's not like he's like, oh, I don't want to have to like take like all these fake cigarettes.

It's the only thing that bothers me about this movie is I have no idea why they're not having sigs.

It's inexplicable.

It's the most like, why aren't you guys smoking?

Especially in this era, 94 and 95.

Like they're definitely one of the two is smoking, but probably both.

Could you make the case though that it's a reverse what's aged the best?

The fact that they chose not to smoke and there is no smoking in movies.

Great.

But now it feels more like a modern movie because no one is smoking.

Okay.

Also, Ethan Hawk, great smoker.

You're just like wasting a talent.

I'm just guessing Delpy wasn't a bad smoker either.

Yeah, French girl.

Yeah.

Good one.

The Butch's Girlfriend award for weak link of the film.

What do you have?

Do you have a weak link of the film?

It's okay not to have one.

Not like there's no actor in the movie.

I mean, for the flex choice two, you could make the case as the weak link, but it's a bigger discussion.

Do you have one?

I don't have a weak link for this movie.

i have one and you guys aren't going to be happy and i might not not even be right but i didn't want to just toss away the category i was thinking about the closing credit song

and i went back and i looked through all the 1995 songs that i have on every playlist trying to figure out if there was a better song that would have made it feel more 1995-ish

jerry

don't know

I have two runner-up choices and then the choice that I actually think would have could have worked, but just would have been more 1995-ish.

Blue by the Jayhawks.

I don't think it totally works.

Incredible.

It's a really good song.

And it's 1995.

Good Riddance by Green Day.

Probably too corny.

Is that a 95 song?

Oh, it sure is.

Wow.

I wouldn't have guessed that early.

But Bread is Yellow by the

Innocence Mission.

That's the one I landed on.

I like that.

I think that would have worked.

But I think that the choice of music in this movie is to make it timeless.

This Catholic song for that.

That's why I forced it.

I'm not sure I'm right.

What's Age the Worst?

I don't have anything other than there was some screenwriting credit stuff that emerged in the mid-2010s with Dolpy, where she basically said, we got hosed on our screenwriting credit.

And Link later and Chrisanne were on the defense.

And it became a story that a lot of people wrote about.

Then there was some pay stuff.

Yeah, there was a payment.

I didn't make as much.

But Ethan Hawk was a famous actor at that point, and she wasn't.

And that's just puffs.

I don't know.

None of that stuff bothered me that much, but I just wanted to flag it.

Other than that, I don't have any WhatsApps worst.

Well, it's an interesting movie to put in front of younger people.

I was talking to Jack Sanders before earlier today about this movie, and he said it's one of his favorites of all time.

And it's a big

movie personally for him.

And that's interesting.

Do you think he's a romantic because he's a Mets fan?

I don't know if that has hardened my soul, so I can't imagine.

Although he is a way more optimistic Mets fan than I am.

But I think it's interesting because it is a movie that forget about like whether or not you would have ever met Celine.

Even just the way that they go about their day would be radically different today.

You'd have, you'd have Google Maps up and Yelp up and you'd have food guides and tourism guides.

And even if you were, even if you still had the spirit of wandering, the absence of technology in the movie.

And even just asking strangers for help is something that I feel like people don't really do anymore, like when they run into the two theater guys.

So I don't know if it, it's not that it aged the worst per se, that there are no cell phones or anything, but it has aged the movie in a unique way because it's right on the precipice of cell phones.

You almost watch it now, and it's more fantastical than it was in 1995 to see it.

Cause now you're watching it in almost like a fairy tale.

Yes.

And there's so many things that they do where you're just like, where he's just like, let's just get off this train.

And I would be like, so neurotic about like, where are we?

Like, is this the right place to get?

Are we going to be in the wrong place?

Right.

It's closer to 1500 than 2000.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Um, I watched it with my uh daughter and her boyfriend, Tommy, last week because I was in Boston.

And, uh,

Tommy's a romantic, so of course he liked it.

Tommy.

My daughter was on TikTok half the time and thought there was too much talking.

Tough beat.

Wow.

Tough beat for Tommy.

Tough beat for me.

I was like, she was like, I told you I wasn't really in the mood for a movie.

She said, it was one of those, like, I'll watch it again when I'm more in the mood.

I'm like, you're.

I got Tommy is on an unbrief broken streak right now.

Tommy's doing great, amazing stuff.

Then that same night, we made a

five-leg parlay in the Nuggets Knicks games.

You and Tommy?

That we hit.

Yeah, because he's 21 now.

We can both put on FanDuel.

Shout out to Fanduel.

And we hit it.

Plus 125.

Indoctrinated him young.

Yeah, let's go.

All I can see is you.

You are Jimmy Conway, and he's coming up the stairs.

It's like, you popped in Jerry.

The Ruffalo Hannah Rubinik Partridge Over Acting Award.

Again, nothing.

I don't have anything for that.

Yeah, I mean, you could maybe say that the street poets put a little extra Austrian mustard maybe.

Yeah, Ernie Mangold, the palm readers putting a little extra on his body.

But you kind of need those

distinct characters.

All right.

Time for Sean's flex category.

What do you have?

Okay, so we already sort of mentioned with the criteria orgasm that the recent rod at the Proter Amusement Park

is the Den of Thieves Benny Hanna Award, I think.

It's got to be scene stealing a location.

But the George Ellerby two weeks with pay award, which I absolutely love.

This is the character who definitely should have been fired.

The fucking bartender who gives away a bottle of blind at a bar because one guy tells basically a lie.

I'll send you money.

And says, give me the address, and then never even gives him the address.

We have to go straight to the bartender in this table.

This is...

A shocking act.

I had that in picking nets.

He never gets the address.

Never gets the address.

never gets a bartender's info.

Nothing, the guy's just like, yeah, and then he's like happily watching them.

A million questions.

What kind of red was this that he gave him?

Probably like, he probably gave him the cheapest.

How did he get that bottle open?

That's a good question.

Had to have been a twist off, otherwise, it didn't work.

I mean, got to be less than $10 bottle.

Yeah, that's true.

She's putting glasses in her back.

I love this scene.

It's awesome.

Also, honestly, like, still, we're in the AIDS era.

Like, I'm not psyched about grabbing glasses off the table.

It's a real hot table.

You didn't know any any better in 1994.

You weren't like, oh, cool.

Let me drink this random person's glass.

Yeah.

Europe, you know, it's all different.

Yeah.

That's true.

The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford's hottest takeaway.

I actually have one.

Did Jesse invent live streaming on the back of that train or the back of that bus in Vienna when he's just like, I think we should have a public access show that's just 24-7.

people all over the world?

Like, isn't this basically YouTube?

Yeah, I had this in probably unanswerable questions.

Did Jesse's 365 24-hour day create Instagram reels and TikTok?

So we're aligned.

It did feel like he was on something there.

Yeah.

I mean, there's elements of this in Slacker where I think

Link Later's ideas, like, you're just going around Austin and these different people are having these different experiences or whatever.

But, you know, he's like, if you, you know, why, why is this thing beautiful, but this thing isn't?

It's a great take.

I don't even, this isn't even really a hot take.

Maybe it is, but I don't feel like we have enough random movie crossovers.

I guess this is a hot take.

And I was thinking if they're walking around Vienna and they just run into Grover from kicking and screaming for five seconds because it didn't work out.

He went to Prague, then he went to Vienna.

And

it was just never acknowledged or explained, but he was dressed like Grover.

That would have been like one of the great movie moments of my life.

Why don't we have more movie crossovers with just

universe?

I just like when things get weird.

Yeah, they get the shirts.

In these dumb comic book movies, but not in like just indie movies.

The indie movie multiverse would have been really cool.

I like that.

The Gen X.

The Gen X multiverse.

Like talkative multiverse.

Because they could have run into the redhead from Singles, who was just on a trip.

Whatever her name was.

Sheila Croy.

Sheila, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She's going to have been on a trip with some old dentist and just like ran, and she's just in the movie for 90 seconds as a character.

campus infrastructure there'sn't there isn't he's working on the eurorail yeah

yeah i was also thinking of the guys from barcelona um the with stillman movie maybe finding their way into this movie because he's going to madrid you know yeah you could have seen those two guys you could have seen chris eigenman coming over i didn't there is a there is a really prominent example of this that i can think of where a character pops up from another movie in a completely different movie god damn it so i'm sure somebody listening to this knows the best one ever was i think i've talked about it when uh Coolidge from The White Shadow ended up on Saint Elsewhere as the janitor.

Yes, yes.

And then Salami from The White Shadow was playing a character on the show, and he saw him and he's like, Salami!

And the guy's like, I don't know who you're talking about, man.

Were they on the same network?

The two shows?

Yeah.

Okay.

I think, no, actually, different networks, but same production company.

Okay.

Okay.

You don't have a hottest take, right?

I just think that this movie is more romantic than

Casablanca, Gone with the Wind, Titanic.

Whoa, like this is this is to me, this is the most because it doesn't need all of the accoutrements of the setting and the stakes.

It doesn't need life and death to make this feel so emotionally impactful.

Casting what ifs, apparently Aniston and Paltra both

both tried out for the double.

Against, was going to be against Hawk the whole time.

So

this is true.

It came down to two women and two men in the end.

The two that got the role.

Michael Vartan was the other option for Ethan Hawk's part.

And Sadie Frost,

never really 100%

Bram Stoker's Dracula, right?

She was.

She was in a few things.

Was she married to Jude Law?

Dated Jude Law?

Was she part of the Sienna Miller thing?

Michael Vartan's a weird one, though.

Yeah, I mean, eventually on Alias and Never Been Kissed and a couple of other things, but he's just a little bit more like bland, for lack of a better word, than Ethan Hawk.

Ethan Hawk has so much personality.

Best that guy award, nothing, because this is a movie set in Vienna with weird people you've never seen.

Dean Waiter's award, though.

We have the two guys who invite them to their play, Bring Me the Holes of Wilmington's Cow.

We have the Fortune Tower, we have the poet, and we have the benevolent bartender.

I'm going poet.

I have the poet there.

Great poem.

And also,

take it up a notch for the two of them.

I'm 100% going Ernie Mangold, the palm reader, who is a

beloved actress in Austria.

She's 98 years old, still alive, and she has more than 100 credits in her career.

I don't think any of them are in American productions, other than this movie.

Recasting Couch Director City.

I got something here.

We got to talk about it.

What do you got?

The singer in the bar?

Oh, no.

I'm recasting the city, and I want to talk about what would happen if this was set in Boston.

What happens if Jesse goes up to a Boston bartender at 1.30 in the morning and asks for a free bottle of wine?

He gets hit over the head with it.

You think you're better than me?

Asking for a bottle of wine.

It's fucking crazy.

Yeah.

So that.

The fucking OJ is on the TV.

The white Bronco.

So it would be...

They'd be waiting to get on a train going from Boston to New York, but the Amtrak was shut down.

Yeah.

And it was out for six hours.

They had to walk around Boston.

They had to go down to the bottom of the bank.

They go to Bac Bay and go to Beacon Hill.

They had to have a French girl and a guy from America.

No, it's a really, it's like a really obnoxious girl from an island.

Who says it in a better accent?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So they end up in North End for dinner.

Yeah.

Yeah,

that would be a pretty good movie.

They could go to like the, you know, Newberry Comics.

They could go to the Middle East.

But then she ends up getting in an argument with somebody at one of the bars they go to, and he gets punched out.

Yeah, he gets punched out.

Some former college football player.

Oh, Murph's just wailing on him outside a bar.

My choice for the flex category is one from the mailbag, a new award.

The okay, motherfucker award from the exact moment when

the exact moment when the movie goes up a notch, which is the listening booth.

Yes.

Yep.

Good test drive in the new category.

You're good.

You know what he's looking at?

What's the foreheat status?

Like how far away are we?

We're circling.

The kind of scouting has been happening.

I've just been, it's just on every streaming platform now, and I watch it all the time.

I watch it constantly.

Yeah, because I watched it.

I started when he introduced Okay, motherfucker to,

I watched that scene, and then I watched like five other scenes.

And I was just like, I'm back.

I'm in.

Do you, I've hit the point with Heat where now I'm analyzing the most meaningless scenes in the movie.

Like when they go for the fake Van Zant drop off, and I'm like, how did they not realize?

You're watching Heat on all 22.

I am.

How did you not see Max's design?

Right there.

He's coming right down that way.

Litzenum with three shooters.

How responsible do you, I like to interview you guys about your obsession with Michael Mann.

How responsible do you feel for the fleet of young men who are showing up at these repertory screenings?

of Michael Mann movies.

Like is that happening?

Wearing heat t-shirts and like black hats.

It's like, it's the new version of the seven thing that you were talking about, you know, where it's like this guy might murder you, but it's the opposite.

It's like this guy might be your best friend who you rob a bank with.

These people sound great.

Where are they?

I mean,

Jack Sanders will tell you they're they're all over Los Angeles in the movie theaters.

They're showing out.

Yeah.

They're like, Black hat is screaming tonight.

I'll be there.

I'll pay $80 for a ticket.

You know, if we could say we played a small part,

then that's that's all you can do.

If there's any God in this world, it's between a bunch of men sharing heat with each other.

One thing I was thinking was: I think I could do an entire heat nitpick pod and not do any of the other categories.

I could do that because I've seen it too many times now.

I can nitpick literally every scene in the movie.

Like the director's commentary, I could just nitpick.

And by the way, this is like one of my five favorite movies, but there's, I've just seen it too many times.

Yeah.

Can I pitch an idea?

Yeah.

Nitpick.

You guys for the Ringer Movies YouTube channel remake before sunrise, but it's just you walking around LA

doing a heat pod.

I thought you were going to say, do our version of Michael Mann's Before Sunrise because of how awkward his

book about metals.

Are you so interested in me getting off this train, lady, with hockey masks and suits with open shirt collars?

Michael Mann trying to write the would you like to go to the cafe car with me part would have been amazing.

I mean, his version of this is like collateral, basically.

And yet, Jesse reading Klaus Kinske's memoir is some real Macaulay shit.

Half-Fast Center Research, some good stuff.

So, oh, yeah, you mentioned those books.

She's reading, I'm going to mangle the names.

Is it George Bardotil?

George Batil, Batier, Batille.

I don't know.

I'm not an expert.

Ethan Hawk is reading All I Need Is Love by Klaus Kinske.

Yeah.

I feel like Bill Hayter likes that book.

It's also in a hostel somewhere.

Yeah.

Because he looks at it.

He's like, I don't know.

So this is sad.

And I never knew this until I did the research, even though this is a movie I've seen many times.

The movie was inspired by a lady named Amy Learhaupt.

Link later met her in a toy shop in Philadelphia in 1989.

And they walked around the city together, conversing deep into the night.

And then she died of a motorcycle accident

before sunrise.

But apparently one of the reasons he made the movie.

was he was hoping she would see it and hunt him down because this was the 90s.

And if once you lost connection with somebody, that was was it.

You couldn't find them.

Um, but he didn't know she died for a while after that.

I think it was 2010 when he found out.

Yeah, and a friend of a friend reached out.

Yeah, it's a there's an episode of Fresh Air that features the three of them, Delpy and Hawk, and Link Later, and he tells the story.

And uh, I remember the day that that episode aired because my wife listened to it and was just in a mess and was like, You have to listen to this immediately because it's so heartbreaking.

Yeah,

so the cemetery they visit, it's called the Cemetery of the Nameless and Simmering.

The people buried have found anonymity and death

um yeah apparently a famous place

first trip for before sunrise do you know where it was set

this kind of blew my mind because this is one of the most boring places i've been to i believe it was san antonio san antonio yeah river walk baby

It took place in San Antonio and the guy was a rabid film fanatic who talked all the time about film.

Better or worse movie?

95 Spurs when the

Spurs were yeah, that's when Rodman kind of submarined the Spurs in 95 and he took his shoes off during the game.

He was torturing David Robinson.

That could have been a scene.

Rodman, what's up with him?

Apparently, the last shot of the movie, they had to time it with the train and they like rehearsed it and it had to be perfect.

And if they fucked it up, then they would have had to come back the next day and do it.

And they rehearsed it and it worked.

And then

kath bloom

got like a little resurgence from the movie ended up releasing more albums and got a little bump uh you mentioned james joyce's ulysses where'd you stand on this book cr in your english major we were just talking about this i had uh when i went overseas myself for my semester abroad i i took ulysses at an irish university so it was probably the ideal circumstances it's it's an incredible novel it's a lot of parallels both stories are on june 16th

both them both involve a journey taking place around a single city.

Jesse says his real name is James, Joyce's first name.

Jesse spends a lot of time wandering around the cities of Europe instead of going back home.

Kath Bloom, Molly Bloom.

They visit a graveyard.

June 16th was the day James Joyce met his life partner, Nora Barnacle.

Great name.

Yeah.

Link later.

Joyce, he's a

artist.

Yeah.

Apex Mountain, Ethan Hawk.

I think he's an Apex and a Reapex, and I think Apex is reality bites, and then Reapex is Training Day.

I think it's Training Day, but I could be talked into this movie.

But the only thing is, this movie didn't do that well, and it kind of been in movies since he was like 18.

He's a slow burn.

It's had a big cable run, and I think a lot of people loved it, but it took a couple years to do it.

What are you thinking?

I don't know.

I mean, I think he had a third wave

in boyhood.

Well, the well, that's I mean, it's connected, right?

Like the boyhood, the purge and the sinister boyhood period of his career.

The other thing that happened is he got really good at doing press, really good.

He's one of the best podcast guests ever.

He's an unbelievable storyteller.

He's just a great talker.

And I think he like kind of cemented his place in movie history in some ways with that third wave of success.

Um,

and so I don't know, it's like this movie wasn't a huge hit.

Training day is a huge hit, but it's a huge hit because of Denzel.

And he did a lot in that, you know, that the Blumhouse Plus I keep doing link later movies stretch, yeah, that I think confirmed him in a way.

I don't know, maybe that might have been his apex.

I mean, Sinister and the Purge made a lot of money.

Yeah, that's probably the answer.

Jewie Delpy, I would say before sunset,

Urail trains.

Sure.

It's Austrian palm readers.

Absolutely.

Definitely.

Littering.

Great littering in this movie.

They just leave the wine glasses in the bottle, just in the parking lot.

That's true.

That's a good point.

Vienna, probably the Billy Joel song.

Yeah, there's also a couple of other cultural touchstones there.

But nothing like the Billy Joel.

I think The Third Man, which is also said in Vienna, would be a good one.

Yeah, Billy Joel.

That song's multi-generational.

Yeah.

It's kind of the Kath Bloom's come here of the late stage Billy Joel family.

Billy Joel.

People love that.

What about, is this Apex Mountain for first dates?

It's the greatest first date in America.

So it's this or Neil and Edie in the finals.

That's right.

Neil and Edie.

Starting out at a diner, talking about a book about medals, and then they end up in some awesome place of the view.

And then he takes off in the morning.

Then he takes off in the morning.

I don't think I'm well suited to be the

adjudicator of best first stage.

I wish we had thought about this more.

We should have reached the movie.

No, you know what Best First State

is actually Colin Farrell and Gong Lee and Miami Vice go to get smoke.

That is the fucking answer.

Top that.

You like the Larvita?

I can't.

Yeah, it's good.

On another

hand here,

is this Apex Mountain for date movies?

If your relationship is going well, it's a great movie.

If it's not going well, it's a confrontation.

It's a great point.

If you see this, but if you saw this movie in 95 and you weren't really getting along with whoever you're dating,

you would leave the movie side-eyeing them and be like, I don't feel this way.

You would say, Why am I wasting my time when there could be a Jesse or a Celine out there for me?

That's like my gotta see a better girl story, yeah, from Goodwill.

Uh,

Apex Mountain for Gen X.

I think it's a year earlier.

I think 94 was the peak.

95 were in the last remnants.

Well, this is

95 is kicking and screaming in this, right?

Yeah, but I think 94 is

fresher, cooler.

Okay.

We got

reality bites that year.

I think it's 93 or 94.

The music was better in 93, 94.

Are we sure it's not the election of Barack Obama?

For Gen X?

Wow.

Oh, that's interesting.

Still the only Gen X president we've had.

Probably will be the only one.

Listing booths?

Impex Mountain?

No, it's clearly Philip Seymour Hoffman and the talented Mr.

Ripley vibing out to the jazz basic.

I would go for this.

Kath Bloom, definitely.

Anonymous cemeteries, no question.

Okay, Cruiser Hanks.

Let's go.

I got Hanks.

oh really no oh i think cruise is clearly

gotta be cruise you don't think hanks cruise doing his motor mouth cruise would be amazing cruise training to do this movie would be amazing like he's wearing a skin suit if he's like think of it like a time machine okay you know like like i do these ideas a lot of his parts are like this a lot of his movies are like this honestly he's

a lot of scenes in cocktail like this yes A lot of his age.

I'm not even surprised that I'm on an island.

I'm going this far.

This is the movie Cruz should have made.

He's missing this from his IMDb, young man, IMDb, 10-year stretch.

I wish he made a movie like that.

Yeah.

I mean, I guess the closest he gets is Jerry Maguire, right?

Yeah.

Another fast-talking

emotional movie.

It's a huge movie.

It's like, let's spend 24 hours with Cruz trying to win a girl over.

He never did it.

De Niro tried to do it once with that Meryl Street movie, and it was a disaster.

Some friends put it on Johnny.

Is that the one?

No, that was Pacino.

Oh, yeah.

It was called Falling in Love, I think.

Stanley and Iris?

Is that what you're thinking of?

No, De Niro did a movie called Falling in Love.

Isn't Stanley and Iris like about two people getting sick or something?

Or no?

That was a different one.

No, Falling in Love?

I haven't seen that.

It was De Niro and Meryl Streep, and it was positioned as these two huge actors are finally together.

And it just was like they had no chemistry.

And that's why you didn't remember it.

Stanley and Iris was De Niro and Jane Fonda.

Yeah.

So we trumped CR, Cruise Wins, two to one.

You guys dunked on me.

Yeah.

I got you on the cruise side for once.

That's great.

Yeah.

You guys are usually on the opposite, aren't you?

Young Hanks.

Well, we're in a death war till we die about who's superior.

I love Cruz the most.

What are you talking about?

I fucking have defended cocktail multiple times in my life.

Someone just had a criteria organizing talking about.

I love Cruz.

Okay.

Okay.

But I think if you're going to say

1984 range Tom Hanks in this movie,

I think he would have been really good.

I just personally, I think Cruz would have been hilarious in Vienna.

Just like they would have had to work in some scene where he did something athletic, like he played hacky sack with somebody.

I think that Jesse's neuroses are a critical part of this.

And I don't think of Tom Hanks as a particularly neurotic actor.

That's a good point.

Whereas Tom Cruise, despite Matt and Adol good looks and the fame and success, there's something kind of nervy and weird about him.

Cocktail.

Cocktail.

I think he'd be trying to like do the magnetic smile smile thing the whole time.

Like, can you imagine Cruz being like, like, he'd be like.

That is true.

I don't know why.

He would have needed a bad ditch for Cruz.

No, he would have needed a bad hair dude to try to make it seem less realistic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think he could pull someone off.

I think one of the reasons why it shouldn't be Hanks is because this movie is kind of a rejection of Tom Hanks movies like this.

Like Sleepless Seattle.

Like Sleepless in Seattle.

Like, you know,

soon to be when you've got mail.

New category.

Scorsese or Spielberg?

I'm going to go Scorsese.

test drive scorsese yeah because he could he showed that he can do one long night with after hours yeah he is he a romantic is scorsese a romantic isn't i think

i think he's spiritual he has some spiritualism in this movie that's true there is the history of the soul i would say spielberg there's the sentimentality the yeah so is the question who made more sense or which version maybe this category is which movie would you rather have wanted to see scorsese or spielberg because i think i'd rather see scorses Before Sunrise

over Spielberg's.

I know what I'm going to get with Scorsese.

I know that they'd be smoking in that version.

Yeah.

But then the poet would have gotten shot and fallen into the river.

That sounds amazing.

There would have been a robbery.

This is the tough category for genuinely great films made by serious artists because you're like, well, this is one of the quintessential Link Later movies, maybe the quintessential Link Later movie.

So it's a little hard to be like, it's a lot easier when it's like maybe this category doesn't work.

Dead of the FCU directed by Steven Speaker.

This category works.

Another new one.

What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played?

The poet.

Oh,

I had the poet.

Yeah.

Oh, I like that.

But I will say, I did test drive in my head him as Jesse in the mid-90s, whether that could have worked.

I think everybody in their mid-90s was like, I'm Jesse, but we probably all looked like Philip Seymour Hoffman.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

But the poet, he would have been.

I think that's the answer.

Yeah.

That's good.

Or the the actor, the, the cow actor.

Yeah.

Yeah, that would have been good, too.

The Ed Norton Reverse Dunk Award for did this movie need a random sports scene.

And we've already come up with like five.

I think racing to the TV to see Houston Knicks would have been a great one.

Yeah.

And then stumbling upon the Bronco.

Can I, can I, can we talk about a possible hacky sack scene where they're in a park?

Oh, yeah.

Height of hacky sack.

Where Jesse gets distracted by the scene.

Jesse's like, I used to be really good at this.

And then he does some hacky sack.

Do you play hacky sack?

I never liked it, and I never liked anyone who did it.

I wonder if there's an extended cut or a deleted scene where like Jesse sees a bunch of Austrian guys playing soccer in the park, and he's just like, this is why football will never catch on in America.

Here's my thing.

This next category is blind call to Rosillo.

He might not answer.

He's not going to pick up, right?

We'll see.

It depends if he's doing stuff.

So this new category, I'm just going to call Rosillo and see if he's seen the movie and put him on speaker.

Can you hear that?

Welcome to Verizon Watch.

Oh, for one.

Man.

Are you sure he doesn't have you straight to voicemail in his phone?

I talked to him yesterday.

He's probably like on hour two with Bruce Feldman.

He's right in now.

He's in Vienna.

He's in Vienna.

He's on a train reading Klaus Kinske's memoir.

Pick a nets.

Jesse wearing a leather jacket in Vienna in mid-June.

Yeah, I was, it's got to be like 98.

I'm going to say an unanswerable question is, what are we doing with body odor?

There's no shower, right?

After the show.

It's Ethan Hawk.

Yeah, they've been drinking coffee, not smoking, I guess, but walking around.

Okay, this raises an interesting question.

In the 90s,

you were significantly there.

You were less there, but still there.

Were we just a little bit more comfortable with the human musk?

Were we less moisturized?

I don't know, deodorized.

Big deodorant frenzy in the 90s.

That was like, you get all sorts of different flavors.

Old spice, right?

Because, like, think about what a man in like 1957 smelled like theode.

Yeah, like everybody smelled that way.

That's my point.

That's my point: is that would it have been okay if he was just you know riding the European

hostel sleeping and

used to that?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

There's a there's a there's an odor thing that might have been a non-issue.

He never gets the bartender's address, which we covered.

I have one more big nitpick, but do you guys have any?

Just that these guys suck at pinball.

Oh my god, Ethan Hawk is so bad i know they're just like he's never played

that earlier really funny if he was just like can you shut the up i'm trying to play he's when he's explaining what love is he is atrocious yeah you know we had a

didn't we have like a tom cruise sports award

i get the point with ethank not being able to play pinball they're distracted by each other and they're just kind of like what can we do here but well hollywood stole ethan's youth so he never really got to play with childish things

so the playboy playmate of the month in july 78 wasn't Crystal.

Yep.

It was Karen Morton,

who has the distinction of being the Playmate with the smallest breast ever out of the Playmate.

She was the 32B.

I did a deep dive on her.

I'll bet you.

She played the best ovin in the comedy feature, History of the World Part 1.

She played Jenny.

in the music video for 8675309 Jenny by Tommy Two-Tone.

Yes.

Wow.

That's who the actual.

Legacy is profound.

This is

shit.

This is why this is the best podcast out there because I just gave you a July 1978 Playmate deep dive.

But you didn't find out why

they screwed it up.

Yeah.

Okay.

I think they screwed it up because they didn't know the internet was coming or podcasts.

Sure.

And that we would be like deciphering who actually was the playmate.

Right now, you've got many men at home furiously Googling this person's name.

Karen Morton.

Sequel, prequel, prestige to be all blackcaster untouchable.

Two sequels.

So we know how that turned out.

All right.

Tweet category.

Buckle up.

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley and the firm?

Because we've tweaked the category.

I do have a request that you do Long Legs

Reading the Fortunes, reading the Palm Reader.

Jesse!

You seem to be moving around a lot!

But if

Wolfer Brimley from the firm was talking about Jesse's trip to Spain, here's our Jesse, who has saved up all his money from working as a barista in a college town, and he goes all the way to Spain to reunite with his long-distance girlfriend.

What does he find instead?

He finds heartache in the form of a fabulous matador named Gonzalo.

I asked him, there's a Tony Robo case, too.

Yeah.

For the Ferris wheel.

She's begging to be clean to one, Jim.

Just watch one kiss, Jim.

He's just got to do it right now, Jim.

Jesse's got to do it, Jim.

I don't know if I could actually do this, but

Daniel Plainview as the poet reading the poem.

Oh, no.

It's really hard.

Give him the poem.

He's got to see the poem.

Look up the poem.

I'm looking at it.

I mean,

you know, it's

come on.

Skip it to where it's right there.

It's daydream delusion, limousine eyelash.

Oh, baby, with your pretty face.

Drop a tear in my wine glass.

Look at those big eyes.

See what you mean to me.

Sweet cakes and

milkshakes.

Milkshakes.

I am a delicious.

Yes, sweet cakes and milkshakes.

I drink your milkshake.

Okay, that's all I got.

Good job, man.

Thanks.

Should we add Tom Brady to this?

What is Tom Brady's signature aside from saying KB?

Tom Brady would be like, that date went great.

Jesse was so pleased.

Playing that great date.

Seems to be a real connection here, KB.

I feel like

they're going to maybe connect down the road, KB.

That's why it's really important to have a strong offensive line, KB.

Right there, he was able to get her off the train, KB, and that was huge.

That was huge for what's going to happen.

No, no, no, I was just looking for love in this world, KB, and he may have found it.

Just want to ask her who gets it.

Probably Link later, right?

For script or for direction?

Well, if it's script, then they share it.

Yeah.

And along with Kim Cruzon.

Which I think would be pretty cool.

The next two movies were both nominated for best screenplay.

Yeah.

Probably unanswerable question.

CR already covered the Jesse's 24-hour idea.

And then for this movie only, the question was, did they have sex?

We find out the answer in a later movie.

I got another unanswerable, though.

Yeah.

How many people threw emotional Hail Marys on first dates because of this movie?

Like, how many guys out there do you think like

did insane bits or were like, we're in a time machine, or we're stardust, or tried to come up with something, like, really overly romantic?

And some girl was like, it's okay.

Like,

besides this fucking guy you met last night.

We're not in Vienna.

We're in Syracuse.

We're in a fucking Bennigan.

Did you ever try to sophomore as a Dennison?

Yeah.

You never tried to pull any of this material out for your own purposes.

Oh, I did.

I don't know.

You did?

Oh, yeah.

I feel like I made like grand gestures when I was younger like this.

Like,

like, like, uh, I'll meet you back here in six months.

No, but like,

that kind of like

just kind of going for brokenness of it was just like a little bit more common.

I think

this isn't a nitpick and it might be an unanswerable, but it's something.

It's the one thing I felt like wasn't authentic about his character, but it's only, it's based on what happens in the next movie

where he writes a book,

which tells me that if he he wrote a whole book nine years later, then he would have been writing at this age, right?

You're writing short stories, you're writing all this stuff.

And it feels like with, because he's just throwing, he's running all the plays he can run.

Yeah.

He does have a writer's mind in the movie, though.

You can tell.

But I'm saying at some point, I think he shows her something he wrote.

I think he, you play that move at some point during the night.

Can I show you?

Do you want to read this one thing I wrote?

So he's trying to write.

That's why he's mad at Press.

He's like, there's no way he could have come up with that spot.

Well, he's always protecting himself.

Like, even when he reads the Auden poem, which he obviously loves, he needs to do it.

Is it in the Dylan Thomas voice that he does it in?

You know, because he can't totally turn himself over and become vulnerable to her.

I just think he has writing.

And I think,

I don't know.

I just think he would have, would have tried it.

Can I ask you, can I ask you a question?

Yeah.

I thought about this a lot watching this movie.

So you

really don't like

the English class guy, you know, the guy who's like, I'm looking for the metaphorical meaning and all these things.

I did like them, but I didn't like them.

So I thought they were fun to argue with and comment.

This is what I want to talk about because,

you know, you employ some at the ringer and you're very drawn to movies that feature these characters.

So maybe I just didn't want to admit what was lurking deep inside me.

Well, that I'm just

asking.

It's never too late to crack open Ulysses, Bill.

It is for me because my brain is leaking out of the way.

Do they have that on iPad?

It's big print.

Yeah, seriously.

Do they they have a version of it that is read by robert deal as neil macaulay

the coach finstock award for best life lesson

connecting with someone for 24 hours is better than never connecting with anyone i think human connection being the the real relationship

yeah what piece of memorability would you want or not want from this movie i would want the poem oh oh the poem that the guy wrote that's a good one that's that's a good one i had the actual Kath Bloom album that he had.

I think that's good too.

I would not want that turtleneck.

That's, I could not pull that off.

That red, that maroon turtleneck he's wearing at the beginning of the movie.

He gets rid of it.

He takes it off at some point.

He's wearing like a t-shirt

when they're at the amusement park.

But boy, that would be a tough look for me.

With the wine bottle,

interesting one.

The poem, I think, is the right answer.

Best double feature choice before sunset.

And then

probably the toughest of all these.

Who won the movie?

I think it's Link Later.

I thought it was Hawk.

I had Hawk, but I don't know if I'm right because I think he needs this for his kind of big picture thing.

And Link Later was doing great anyway.

But I also think it might be.

It probably is Link Later.

It's probably Link Later because if Hawk doesn't make this movie, he still

reality bites.

Link Later really needs this because then it leads to the trilogy.

I also think,

you know, you mentioned their collaboration and whether that's great.

Like there's a couple of other interesting examples of this.

De Niro and Scorsese, George Roy Hill and Paul Newman.

Like there's some people who you're like, when these two guys get together, something special is going to happen.

But Link Later needed to find Hawk for this movie.

And when they're together, even if the movie isn't a success, there's something alchemical that is really working.

And

I don't know.

And also it just seems like,

I don't know, what is his signature movie now, Link Later?

What is the one?

Is it still Dazing Confused?

Is it, is it,

is it Boyhood?

Is it School of Rock?

Is it Sunrise, Sunset?

I would argue it's Sunset.

I think it's the trilogy.

Yeah, or the trilogy as a whole.

Because it's both

so crowd-pleasing, but also so formally inventive and so breathtaking in its scope.

You know, he has two movies coming out this year.

Right.

One of which stars Ethan Hawk,

Blue Moon, which I think he plays Rogers

from Rogers and Hammerstein.

Yeah.

We didn't get to the big Kahuna Burger Award.

We cut that one out, but it would have been the wine.

I also just have drinking coffee at night.

The Dan Campbell scale for holy shit.

Are they really going for this right now?

I don't know if they had, I don't know if this movie had this one.

We hustle.

I can't wait to do the Lena Dunham running the Spawn Ranch award for most jarring casting decision that's going to be great we didn't have the rascillo blind uh thing um the devil wears proud award for is this movie actually perfect for what it tried to do i think we could have given that one out yeah

um

when would i have died didn't get to do that one this time around yeah when we probably the 40 year old version of myself is when we would we didn't have lunch like i just don't eat in this movie that's a great point yeah

they eat anything i think that it's implied that they eat at the cafe where everybody's like smoking and playing chess and go to the bathroom goes to the bathroom in this movie either yeah yeah there's some i'm glad

semi-seeding

drop the kids off at the pool yeah i'll be right back that's interesting eating in front of someone is also a little bit of a challenge when you're trying to seduce them yeah a little hard to be elegant in that way one other thing just to note is that he runs out of money with the poet, I think.

So she's basically paying for the rest of the night.

Yeah.

He's reaching out for coins coins there at the end with the poet.

We don't get producer Craig's take this episode because he went to SNL this weekend and was somehow on camera in the monologue.

So if you want to watch Timothy Chalamay's monologue when he goes into the stands, there's producer Craig.

He's like the new Zealig,

just Zealig.

Zealic, yeah.

He's kind of kind of

Chalmay kind of giving some Ethan Hawk vibes in the Bob Dylan performance, you know.

It's an interesting one because this would have been the perfect Chalamay movie.

Yeah, it's like we're recasting this now.

Chalomay is clearly

ronin in Europe.

That's the movie.

I mean, they would be amazing.

But it's they're too big.

But in Boston, he's too big.

Shalloman Ser Sharonen in Boston.

Yes, but in 2018 he broke down.

It's been eight hours in Boston.

She's a nice Irish girl in Boston.

Yeah.

Before sunrise.

After last call.

That's it for the pod.

We are back on the regular schedule.

Please keep sending us emails on the rewatchables33 at gmail.com.

Thanks to Jack and Kyle for producing.

You can watch this on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel where you can see all stuff from the big picture as well.

And we'll be doing some bonus stuff too.

Great.

Tell me when you want me to do my own personal Oscar awards for you.

You know, Wesley's going to come on and do the big picks, which is all of the alternative Oscars.

Do you want to come on?

No, I haven't seen all the movies.

I don't belong on this.

No, but you would come on and say what you want to pick.

Like, forget about what's nominated.

You know, like

what Oscars should long long legs get, in your opinion?

Oh, those movies, just any movie that came out

other than it was really.

Thanks, guys.