‘Jeremiah Johnson’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Bill’s Dad

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Here we are. With CR.

Speaker 1 Did you solve that crime and task yet?

Speaker 2 It's not really a crime, Bill. It's a journey of spiritual awakening.

Speaker 1 My bad.

Speaker 1 My dad doesn't have a podcast. This is only the second time he's ever been on the Rewatchables.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but it's his second time on the Ringer Podcast Network in two days.

Speaker 1 Right, that is true.

Speaker 1 You taped yesterday about on the Red Sox game one, which will be by the time people hear this, they'll have known what will happen with the Red Sox Yankees.

Speaker 3 In 20 hours.

Speaker 2 Two times.

Speaker 1 The only other time you ever came on the Rewatchables.

Speaker 3 Shawshank.

Speaker 1 Shawshank for my 50th birthday. And now we are doing, it's Robert Red for a month.
We are doing my dad's favorite movie ever, Jeremiah Johnson.

Speaker 2 It's next.

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Speaker 1 All right, CR. It's Redford Month.
It is. You can't have Redford Month without Jeremiah Johnson, which I did not invent the Mountain Man movie, but I think still is in the running for the best one.

Speaker 1 Redford said it was his favorite of all of his movies.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Do you think that's because of his affection for the landscape that it's set in? I mean, it's essentially shot in his adopted backyard, right?

Speaker 1 Right. It's filmed in Utah.

Speaker 1 He looks great. He gets to grow all this different facial hair.
He gets to kill some

Speaker 1 Native Americans who are coming after him. And it's a complicated situation.

Speaker 1 It's, you know, he's just a pilgrim trying to make it work and pisses some people off. And,

Speaker 1 Dad, ever since I was a kid, this movie was on. You would have this on all the time to the point we would make fun of you.
Really, again, Jeremiah Johnson? What is it? What was it about this movie?

Speaker 3 Well, it came out in 1972. You were.

Speaker 2 I was three.

Speaker 3 Three years old. And I had read an article.
I read that it was coming out. And then I read an article about John Liverading Johnson,

Speaker 3 about whom the film is loosely based, I guess. And the guy sounds like such a character.
And of course, they exaggerated how many crow he killed. One article said 300 during the 10 years and da da da.

Speaker 3 So I was so excited to see the movie. And I remember going by myself.
You were too young to go at that point.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 walking out of that. And there are probably five other people in the theater because initially, initially, it wasn't well received.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You know, that kind of a movie at that point in time. And I remember walking out of the theater saying, I'm going to see this movie many times during my lifetime.

Speaker 1 And it was on all the time. Yeah.
It just felt like it was on for, it was another one that was not even on like TNT, more like whatever your local, what were your local Philly stations?

Speaker 1 We had channel 38 and 56.

Speaker 2 Channel 11 or whatever. Yeah, it was just on.

Speaker 1 It would just be on. It would be in a two and a half hour block with commercials.

Speaker 2 What do you, what do you think, Dr. Bill, what draws you back to this movie over and over again? Is it the, I mean, this is about as close to a national park as you can get without leaving your house.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You know, it's partly Redford, obviously. It's also partly Redford's love for nature.
And,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 he

Speaker 3 searched for peace in nature and then he established Sundance. And I mean,

Speaker 3 I'm not surprised it was his favorite movie. It just seemed to ring, you know, ring all the bells for him in terms of his life, how he led his life.
I just like,

Speaker 3 I love the outdoor scenery. It's incredible.
You know, you don't see that in another movie.

Speaker 3 We'll talk about it later. I love the voiceover.
I love the music.

Speaker 3 The whole package just clicked with me.

Speaker 2 There's something very old-fashioned about the way it's made. It feels like a 50s or 60s epic from Hollywood, but it has a 1970s sensibility.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I watched it one time all the way through getting ready for this pod. And I was like, yeah, that's about as good as I remember.
It's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 And it's, we're going to talk about the vengeance turn it makes late in the film.

Speaker 2 But then, as I, like, the last couple of days, I've been like, you know what, I kind of watch. Just want to watch him.
riding his horse through the mountains a couple of times. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I would just throw it on and skip to a vista that I wanted to see and then just let the movie play from there. And it really is

Speaker 2 quite gorgeous and really relaxing to watch some of like just the absolute gorgeous, gorgeous scenery and terrain that they filmed this in.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's going to be a tough grade shot Gordo category for us.

Speaker 1 It reminds me, and I should say the movie I'm about to mention reminds me of Jeremiah Johnson, but Castaway, when Castaway started making its run and it has that hour-long stretch with Hanks on the island and there's no music and it's just kind of peaceful to have on.

Speaker 1 You can hear the ocean. He's by himself.
There's not a lot of dialogue. There's drama and intensity, but not really.
It's okay.

Speaker 1 And this movie for long stretches, you're just like hanging out with it.

Speaker 2 There's a this is a little bit of a blank spot for me with, and I think for Hollywood as well, it's not an era that they made ton of movies about.

Speaker 2 That like 1840s, 1840s, after the Mexican War, mountain men, real, real first frontiersman kind of thing. Like, you know, I think

Speaker 2 like Disney did the David Crockett movies. I think those are kind of like set around this time.
And it's about him going to Texas and stuff.

Speaker 2 But this is not an era that I know a ton about, but the survivalist mountain man genre, to the extent that there is one, and even just man versus nature is a very, very reliable subgenre.

Speaker 1 Well, Dad, we, I don't know how many Westerns we watched, but it just felt like the 70s were all Cowboys versus Indians movies that had been made for 30 straight years, right?

Speaker 1 And then Clint, who is, I think Clint's your favorite actor of all time, right? Is he number one?

Speaker 3 Yeah, he's number one.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So we would watch all of those, but this was, this had a distinct, that mountain man kind of movie, this kind of grabbed the corner of it, I think, the best.

Speaker 3 Well, I agree that

Speaker 3 that era was not an era I knew very much about.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 3 1815 to 1840 or 45, before the Civil War, there weren't a lot of movies made about that period of time.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And certainly not about mountain men.

Speaker 3 And the film does a nice segue eventually from mountain men to settlers. Yeah.
And then you started to see some movie about settlers and, you know, Tyler Western kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Dr.

Speaker 2 Bill, I wanted to ask you, you know, I was going to save this for the what's the most 1972 part of this movie, but when you saw this in the 70s in the theater, did you feel like it was subtly commentating on people coming back from Vietnam being disillusioned?

Speaker 2 Because a lot of these 70s Westerns, like McCabe and Mrs. Miller, and this, some of the Clint stuff, like proxy stuff.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they're like, it's about people who are disillusioned with what they thought they were told about the country or what they thought they knew about being a soldier.

Speaker 2 And now they've come back and they're trying to make sense of their lives. Like, did you feel like it had some contemporary parallels?

Speaker 3 I definitely did.

Speaker 3 I mean, almost throughout most of the movie, he's still wearing his uniform. Yeah.

Speaker 3 The uniform pants that must have eventually smelled pretty bad.

Speaker 3 They never came off.

Speaker 3 And he was escaping civilization. He was, you know, somebody asked him a question

Speaker 3 about, is there a war going on?

Speaker 3 And he just wanted to get away from it all. I mean, whatever happened in the Mexican War and whatever his part was in it, they didn't talk about.

Speaker 3 You just knew that he had a bad experience and he had to get away. And he left civilization to do that.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, that was one of the unanswerable questions is, was he a deserter?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because he asked at the end,

Speaker 1 the Mexican War comes up and he asked, like,

Speaker 2 who won? Yeah, who won. Who won? So

Speaker 1 he got out of there before then. There's a theory on the internet.
Granted, the internet is in batting a thousand.

Speaker 2 Is there an R slash conspiracy Jeremiah Johnson board?

Speaker 1 He was a deserter. It was his fault.

Speaker 1 Did we win the war? I don't even know who won the Mexican war.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, I think it was

Speaker 1 probably a draw.

Speaker 2 We won, quote unquote, but there was a lot of treaties and

Speaker 2 negotiations.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so I do feel like it's funny because Dances with Wolves, which

Speaker 1 I really like Dances with Wolves, but it's funny how much it cribs from this movie. Sure.

Speaker 1 Especially like the disillusioned soldier, like kind of at wit's end and then just on his own.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and finds a kind of balance in his life when he comes into contact with an indigenous culture and finds like, okay, this is, there's, there's like a sense of uh, there's a sense of symmetry or calmness or spiritual fulfillment here that I wasn't getting in the kind of grind people up, spit them out American culture.

Speaker 1 The three of us would have been done immediately because bad eyesight.

Speaker 2 We're just done. I have, I have this in my head.
We're done. Yeah.

Speaker 1 There's no contact lens solution in the wilderness.

Speaker 2 But this is a much more picturesque version of it than Rev The Revenant.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's another one. Yeah.
So the Mountain Man era:

Speaker 1 Jeremiah Johnson, McCabe, and Mrs. Miller, A Man Called Horse with Richard Harris.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Little Big Man with Hoffman. Once Upon a Time in the West with Fonda and Charles Bronson.

Speaker 1 And then pick, I don't know how many Eastwood movies, but and then you would see like Dance with Wolves brought it back. The Revenant brought it back.
People, people People would go back.

Speaker 1 Even Last of the Mohicans, sort of.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's like a, that predates all of this stuff. That's, that's still 18th century, right?

Speaker 1 But it's still a dude outdoors who really knows how to do shit. Yes.
And there's some bad guys in his world, and then he's got to navigate it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And usually they come into cut, they have like a love that then like corrupts, a love that gets sacrificed to like the modern incoming world.

Speaker 1 Dad, it's like the boxing movie and the mountain man movie are the two the two vanity actor projects where they're like yeah i'll live in the mountains i'll get to make a log cabin i'll grow a beard

Speaker 1 like those are the two right you would have been a mountain if you could have been an actor you would have been a mountain man guy

Speaker 1 i don't see you in the ring

Speaker 3 no i would not have been in the ring

Speaker 3 and i was a boy scout and the eagle scout remember oh that's true yeah wait wait

Speaker 3 I could live in the outdoors.

Speaker 1 So what is it about the Mountain Man movie?

Speaker 1 You love the peace of it, the serenity,

Speaker 1 the fact that our guy has to just rely on his natural wits to make it? Like, what is it?

Speaker 3 That's part of it. But I thought there were some intriguing characters in the movie

Speaker 3 that you don't see in many other movies, each character bringing something different to Jeremiah Johnson's life. And

Speaker 3 we'll talk about those characters, but I thought it all melted. It blended well for me from beginning to end.

Speaker 1 I'm guessing Boy wasn't one of the characters, Caleb.

Speaker 2 I will call you Caleb.

Speaker 1 He's like, Okay, I don't speak.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 whatever you want.

Speaker 3 Caleb was one of those characters, though. Who knows what Caleb saw?

Speaker 3 And if any one of us had been in that position, maybe we would have lost our voice. So we wouldn't have wanted to communicate.

Speaker 2 Also,

Speaker 2 you know, a fan duel out there, like there's not a lot to talk about, you know?

Speaker 1 I mean, Caleb was like me and my dad after game seven against the heat in 2023.

Speaker 1 Dad's like, boy, we must leave.

Speaker 2 I will call you Caleb.

Speaker 2 Tatum is hurt.

Speaker 1 Sidney Pollock directs this movie.

Speaker 1 This is seven Pollock Redford movies collaborations that they did.

Speaker 1 This one puts Pollock on the map, though. I mean, I know he had done, they don't shoot horses, don't they? Like he was, but this from this moment on, he just rips rips off.
He does the way we were.

Speaker 1 Are you a Yakuza guy?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm a Yakuza guy.

Speaker 1 Of course, you are. Three Days of the Condor, Bobby Deerfield,

Speaker 1 Electric Horseman, Absence of Balance, Tootsie, and then they win all the Oscars for Out of Africa.

Speaker 1 He has a run, of course, leading to his incredible performance in Eyes Wide Shut.

Speaker 1 And one of the great performances of all time.

Speaker 2 Partnered with his incredible performance in Michael Clayton as well. He was a really good character actor as well.

Speaker 2 He's the safest, one of the safest pairs of hands hands you could put a movie in after 1965, you know, out of whenever he starts. And he just is expert at getting great performances out of people.

Speaker 2 He's got a good eye and he knows how to cut a movie and keep it going. But yeah, he's the kind of director that I, I do not feel like we have anymore, really.

Speaker 1 Yeah, somebody that could do Jeremiah Johnson and Three Days of the Condor.

Speaker 2 Maybe James Mangold is kind of like that. He could do a superhero movie.
He can do a Bob Dylan movie.

Speaker 1 He can do a race car movie and a western, you know, but it's, it's they're they're few and far between now he also directed the firm but really good at laying stuff out in a in a peaceful awesome way but then also suspense and action and chase and you know battling those i just watched three days of the condor recently to scout it for redford bunch you better be

Speaker 2 it's just an elite movie i just watched that also it's really good the The interesting thing that happens in this movie, because you guys both love Westerns, I love Westerns.

Speaker 2 And we both, well, the three of us all love revenge movies usually john wick a clinic wood movie what

Speaker 2 charles bronson movie yeah the inciting event that brings on the revenge happens in the first like half hour of the movie yeah here it happens in the last half hour of the movie right and it really kind of makes this a very odd

Speaker 2 unconventional film to watch because if you know it if you're watching it for the third, fourth time, you're like, and then the last half hour of this movie is super dark and weird and intense.

Speaker 2 but if you're watching it for the first time you're just like oh cool so this guy falls in love this is great we've been here for an hour and 40 minutes three of them they're playing lacrosse nothing can go wrong

Speaker 2 and then you know as soon as the cavalry shows up you're like oh god guys don't go through the graveyard don't go through the burial ground and it really makes a turn in the last 30 to 40 minutes craig Can you give away any takes without giving away your take?

Speaker 1 Did you, when you watched the first hour and a half, were you just thinking thinking you were hanging out in the mountains with Robert Redford?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I was devastated when they killed the wife and kid.

Speaker 2 But I do think it, it's like, I wish the movie had an extra half hour because it made that murder hit much harder than what happened at the beginning of John Wick.

Speaker 2 And you really developed a relationship and felt so comfortable. So it was one of the bigger blind sides I can remember in a movie, honestly.
Yeah. All right.

Speaker 1 Save the rest of your takes.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 1 it is two different movies.

Speaker 3 I'm still missing Swan.

Speaker 2 Swan.

Speaker 1 swan was really it was all coming together yeah you know you get given away by your dad because he owes somebody a gift yeah and it's usually not going to work out well and she ended up having a decent life he shaved his beard for her he yeah he was probably getting used to her cooking yeah yeah i don't know about the cooking part yeah

Speaker 1 uh so the other thing about this movie that we have to mention

Speaker 1 It now lives on for a completely different way.

Speaker 1 It became, I don't even know if you know this, Dad, but on social media

Speaker 1 the the there's a gif where the camera zooms in on redford and he's nodding and it just became this omnipresent social media thing like if you agree with somebody's point or if uh you really like a trade or you like some you would just post the redford meme and now there's like two generations of people that only love this movie

Speaker 1 they just know that he has a cool beard and he's just nodding yeah knowingly then there's a nicholson one that's like a cousin of this yeah that's the that's another nodding one.

Speaker 2 I think that's from, is that from the shining or yeah, no, it's later.

Speaker 1 It's almost, it's from, I think it's from, I don't even know the movie.

Speaker 2 Oh, from the channel. Oh, that's what it is? Yeah.

Speaker 1 But those are like, Craig, those are the two big nodding memes, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Nicholson.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 So it's just the movie completely changed complexion.

Speaker 2 The movie to be to be harvested like that, though. Yeah.
Well.

Speaker 1 It was based on the Crow Killer, the saga of Liberating Johnson, which sounds like my dad did some research on Liver Eating Johnson. We might have to bring that nickname back for a football player.

Speaker 2 That's like a 1920s baseball player nickname. Liver Eating Johnson.
It's like two finger bikoi.

Speaker 1 Like some linebacker that keeps getting suspended in the NFL. They just call him Liver Eating.

Speaker 3 Redford got a lot of publicity because two years after the movie came out in 1974, they moved Liver Eating Johnson's body

Speaker 3 to a different location. And Redford asked to be one of the pallbearers which uh no kidding

Speaker 3 yeah pretty fascinating little tidbit that's a commitment to the bit

Speaker 1 he's really the guy resonated with him he's one of his favorite characters who's your favorite guy liver eating johnson so apparently he would cut out the livers of crow indians he had killed and eat them okay I don't know if that was an urban legend or not.

Speaker 1 They decided not to pursue that angle for the movie.

Speaker 2 Because there's no cities. So it would be more of a rural legend in this case.

Speaker 1 Decided not a rural mountain legend. They decided not to pursue that angle for

Speaker 1 the movie. Anyway, written by John Milius and Edward Anhalt.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and a very fun Hollywood development story where Milius is this very iconoclastic

Speaker 2 sort of man's man surfer California kid who's coming up with like Lucas and Coppola and that group of people. And his original script is really interesting to read.

Speaker 2 There's a lot more, I would say like it's a little bit more fleshed out, whereas the movie is just a lot more like, you know, travelogue kind of style. Right.

Speaker 2 But Milius would write it, and then Redford and Pollock would get someone else to rewrite it. And then they'd be like, ah, that something's missing.
Let's get Milius again.

Speaker 2 So I think Milius made like a lot of money because they had to keep coming back. Keep rehiring.
Paying him his fee. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He also wrote Judge Roy Bean and he wrote Apocalypse Now.

Speaker 1 He did. And then has a very weird directing IMDb, too.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Red Dawn, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, Cone and the Barbarian. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Big Wednesday, movies that make

Speaker 1 no connection with one another. So Pollack

Speaker 1 doesn't get nominated for this, but ends up winning for Out of Africa and has this whole thing.

Speaker 3 This movie commercially,

Speaker 3 I didn't think it did that well in the beginning, and then it got a fan base later.

Speaker 2 It actually wound up having legs.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it ended up being the fifth highest movie of 1972.

Speaker 1 Made $3.1 million budget, made $44.7

Speaker 1 million. Sadly, no Roger Rebert review.

Speaker 2 Oh, well, I guess, yeah, $72. He's not thrown yet.
Yeah. I don't know what.
What do you think? You think it would have given it

Speaker 2 three out of four?

Speaker 2 I could see him being like, this movie's awesome. Four stars.

Speaker 1 I think either three and a half or four. He mentioned it.
There's some review he did 20 years later where he mentioned

Speaker 1 it seemed like he really liked this movie.

Speaker 2 Maybe he was talking about it in conjunction with dances or something. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I think, you know, Roger's a plot guy.

Speaker 2 It's true. It's not a ton of plot.

Speaker 1 Pauline Kale had her usual. I liked some stuff.
I didn't like it. Well, Bob Johnson?

Speaker 2 Yeah. What didn't she like? Do you remember?

Speaker 1 I don't know. We were mean to her in the last pot.
I wanted to cut her some slack. I don't know if she was the audience for this one.
I'm not longer.

Speaker 2 Well, you know, you

Speaker 1 might be watching at some point. All right, we'll take a break and then we'll do a most rewatchable scene.
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Speaker 1 My dad is probably the latest get rid of the Christmas tree guy who's ever

Speaker 2 lived. I think my wife might make your dad have to run for a year.

Speaker 1 Has she gone to May?

Speaker 3 No, no, we only go to Easter.

Speaker 2 That's four months after Christmas.

Speaker 1 How late does your wife go?

Speaker 2 I think we've been to a Super Bowl with the Christmas tree.

Speaker 2 We push it.

Speaker 1 That's not Easter.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
My dad has the record.

Speaker 1 Most re-watchable scene.

Speaker 1 Hatchet Jack's letter.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Slightly racist, but pretty charming.

Speaker 1 Would you put Hatchet Jack in the Deion Waiter's screen even though he was dead?

Speaker 2 His letter.

Speaker 1 Being of sound mind and broke legs, do leaveth my bear rifle to whatever finds it lord hope it be a white man it is a good rifle and kilt the bear that kilt me anyway i am dead yours truly hatchet jack

Speaker 2 what a writer

Speaker 1 anyway he must have been happy

Speaker 2 um he would have been happy that jeremiah got the rifle yeah 50 caliber hawking and then that that rifle becomes his his sort of signature when he meets up with uh with delc u right right 30 caliber hawken seems like okay 50 caliber well the 50 cal

Speaker 1 you gotta take that's what you're taking down elk with you know like uh 30 cal i think you can get your rabbits yeah you know uh next one i like so i like when he makes a deal with the native americans trades them a bear coat for two second round picks and some future considerations some swaps on next year's pelvis he establishes the relationship early

Speaker 1 Next one, bald guy Delgiu.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Shaves his hair because he doesn't want them to take his hair, dad. He's already, it's off his head already.

Speaker 2 Interesting movie.

Speaker 3 He still ended up in the ground and was lucky that Jeremiah came along.

Speaker 1 He killed some guys and grabbed some scalps for, I'm not even positive what his reason was.

Speaker 2 He's like, they stole my horses. And he's like, I'm going to go back and get them.
And Johnson is like, I'm not here to get involved. I'll just help you get into the camp and we can quietly do this.

Speaker 2 And Delgue gets violent. And it's a recurring theme where Johnson doesn't want.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I just want to set some picks and grab a couple rebounds.

Speaker 3 They didn't just steal his horses, they put them in the ground to die.

Speaker 2 True,

Speaker 3 those birds were ready to go after his eyeballs.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a tough way to go. I was going to say that.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 top 10.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I'm also very fair.

Speaker 1 He's just picking fairies. You die from like getting from being sunburned and just having the crows pick your eyes.

Speaker 2 He's also going, he's going to lose his mind because his mustache keeps itching his nostrils. Right.

Speaker 3 I thought he had a classic line when he asked Jeremiah, might you have an extra hat?

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 First family meal with the new gang. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Boy, woman, and Jeremiah all together.

Speaker 1 But I liked how they built the family thing. Within 20 minutes, I was a full believer.
It would have been a fun like YouTube fake commercial for like an 80s sitcom with the Jeremiah family.

Speaker 2 So that's my

Speaker 2 this is the the swan montage, I guess it is, is of like after that first night and, you know, it's spring, the snow's melted. That whole montage of like her showing him how to hunt.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Them building that house. I love a house building montage.
Oh, yeah. I think that's my most rewatchable sequence.

Speaker 1 I had that in the next one, the building the house. Yeah.
Love watching them build a log cabin, Dad.

Speaker 1 Two things, something you, neither you nor I could probably pull off if we had all the logs.

Speaker 2 We'd have to hire somebody. Yeah, we'd have to.
Could you you hire somebody in the wilderness? Well, Home Depot is sponsoring this segment. Yeah, yeah.
Is there a Home Depot out there in Utah?

Speaker 1 Uh, I do love watching them build the house.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because the mud and the hay is the insulation to like it's so realistic when you're watching.

Speaker 1 You're like, oh, that's how it's just, it could have gone for five more minutes. I got the wolf attack,

Speaker 1 pretty good wolf attack, pretty good for early 70s, like for action. Um,

Speaker 2 the crow graveyard, yeah, reluctantly helping the cavalry and the annoying ass Reverend.

Speaker 1 Dad, how many times have you watched this movie

Speaker 1 and not wanted him to go through the graveyard? Like, you feel like this is, it's the 197th time,

Speaker 1 but maybe this time he won't go through it. He'll know not to.
It's the classic, classic movie. No, no, don't, just don't.
No, no.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no. Don't do it.

Speaker 3 And you know, with the reverend staring at him, who doesn't care at all about Jeremiah?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 You just don't want him to do it. The lieutenant has that great line where he's like you have to hunt like i have to try and help these people

Speaker 2 and uh

Speaker 2 it kind of the way it convinces jeremiah to do it because he's like these guys are all going to die if if i don't walk them through this next scene i wrote down was jeremiah fucks up five crows and passes out

Speaker 1 Then the next one right after that, Jeremiah 1v1 against multiple crow assassins. Just move those together.

Speaker 2 I described this as the NCAA tournament of fighting crow warriors.

Speaker 1 And then there's a murder montage

Speaker 1 culminating in the playing dead, but he's not really dead killing the spirit of their chest.

Speaker 2 See the guy in the eye reflection.

Speaker 1 All of a sudden, this movie becomes John Wick, and it's incredible.

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 that scene is a little bit iffy. He looks up into the eye of the horse, and he sees the reflection of the guy coming at him.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 How dare you question Jeremiah Johnson's methods?

Speaker 2 It's straight from Liver Eater, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I like when he goes to visit Crazy Ladies' House and there's a new family there, and the guy says, Some say you're dead on account of this,

Speaker 1 some say you never will be on account of this, yeah, which I have some theories on later. And then the actual ending.

Speaker 3 I want to talk about the ending.

Speaker 2 Go ahead. Do your thing.

Speaker 2 You can do it right now.

Speaker 3 I think it's my favorite rewatchable part of the movie.

Speaker 3 And anytime I watch the movie, if I fast forward, I fast forward to the end. Because

Speaker 3 we don't know how long. I mean, in the article about Liverading Johnson, it said 10 years.
There's no timeline in terms of how long Jeremiah was out there killing crows. Yeah.

Speaker 3 But it certainly was a while.

Speaker 3 And you wonder if he ever was going to make peace with Chief Paints in his shirt red.

Speaker 3 You got the name, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, he has a shirt red.

Speaker 3 I love the name.

Speaker 3 And in that final scene, he goes to click the rifle, thinking that

Speaker 1 we're on it again.

Speaker 3 Here we go. I'm on it again.
And this time I'm on it with the chief.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Best guy wins.

Speaker 3 And then when he put his arm up,

Speaker 3 it was great. It was just a great way to end the movie.
But for me, it's the most re-watchable scene.

Speaker 2 Good Redford, too, with the where he really gives the extra

Speaker 3 and the classic line.

Speaker 3 And some folks think he's up there still.

Speaker 1 You get some guitar in there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, he's also at that point,

Speaker 2 he's got CTE, probably.

Speaker 1 He's been stabbed with a spear. He got a sniff.

Speaker 2 He's been knifed in the back. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's got multiple infections.

Speaker 2 I think his hands all fucked up.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's got frostbite fingers.

Speaker 2 I mean, like it's got to end at some point.

Speaker 2 I love how the last couple of scenes with the tournament of fighting coincides with his legend growing throughout the region, and how it's basically like the Liberty Valence, like print the myth idea, print the legend.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And it's like, you can see, like, there's a song about it.
They've started to build this monument to him.

Speaker 2 The crow have started telling stories about how this guy is like roaming the the mountains, getting his revenge. And it turns into a folk tale almost.

Speaker 1 It would be funny if he had like the LeBron media machine behind him, where it was like, Jeremiah Johnson, unclear if he's coming back.

Speaker 2 My sources are telling me he's coming back for that last crow fight. An Instagram that says he's going zero dark 23 for the next three months.

Speaker 1 Jeremiah Johnson taking it fight to fight.

Speaker 1 Doesn't know what this is going to end.

Speaker 2 Jeremiah johnson i've actually been watching the crows for about 20 years

Speaker 2 i've been learning from the crows

Speaker 2 uh

Speaker 1 my uh my most re-watchable is when he takes down the first group of crows oh in the camp yeah because it's a classic sometimes they'll fuck this up like taken has a version of this in the kitchen when he's with the albanians and he goes hey before i go can you read this for me and the guy's like good luck and then all of of a sudden, he shoots like seven guys, but it's in the kitchen.

Speaker 1 And anytime you see scenes like that, you're always like,

Speaker 1 yeah, the sixth guy probably could have gotten his gun out in time. Right.

Speaker 2 As he's, but these guys, like, you shoot once back in 1840, it takes you five minutes to reload.

Speaker 1 Right. Well, he does the double rifle to start out.
I have a breakdown of this coming later, but I think that's my favorite. So you have the actual ending.

Speaker 3 I have the actual ending.

Speaker 1 And then you have family meal with

Speaker 1 woman and boy.

Speaker 2 Housebuilding montage. Housebuilding and montage.

Speaker 3 You know,

Speaker 3 the family piece reminded me of

Speaker 3 Outlaw Josie Wales, where

Speaker 3 suddenly he has a family that's accompanying him on his journey.

Speaker 3 Remember, the Indian joins him, the woman joins him.

Speaker 3 Kind of a similar take.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's lessons from these movies. And one of many is don't think it's ever going to work out with the guy, the loner who's in the middle of nowhere who finds the instant family.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm just going to assume everyone's going to die.

Speaker 1 Don't go through the graveyard just ever.

Speaker 1 I think it's another one. Like, just ever.

Speaker 2 Ever.

Speaker 1 Just take the extra 20 miles to go all the way around.

Speaker 2 And if you got horses, you're fine. I bet, in retrospect, you wish you would listen to Waze.
You know, it's just like, you know what? It's telling me to go

Speaker 2 detour to the Intuit Dome.

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Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 1 Next category: what is the most 1972 thing about this movie? This is a tough category this time because it's set in the 1840s.

Speaker 2 I had disillusionment with war.

Speaker 2 Oh. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you have one for this, Dad, or should I do mine?

Speaker 3 Yeah, for me,

Speaker 3 you know, I grew up watching movies like Ben Hur when you went into the big theater and they had the intermission and the beginning. But they don't do that anymore.

Speaker 3 So for me, it was the, what they call the overture in the beginning. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And the music, there was no movement. There's just a pretty scene.
The first time I saw it, I'm thinking, what's going on here? You know, there's not no action. There's music.
There's a scene.

Speaker 3 And then all of a sudden, in the middle of the movie, when you get the intermission, which they call the entriatic, which you don't see anymore.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 So for me, that was the most mid-70s kind of scene or kind of a piece of the movie.

Speaker 1 See, Sierra, this is why we're related. Those two things.

Speaker 1 A 150-second overture

Speaker 1 to start the movie,

Speaker 1 which honestly is just weird.

Speaker 1 I kind of enjoy it, but why weren't there credits during the overture?

Speaker 2 It's because it's basically you get 10 minutes of music getting ready to get to the movie. But I will say that overture really sets the mood.
This guy it actually works.

Speaker 1 It's just crazy to watch.

Speaker 2 I wish there were, I wish more movies did that, but I wish they would do it at the expense of like trailers or commercials before a film.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that makes sense. Like I would be into it if like one battle just had the Johnny Greenwood score for like five minutes before the movie started.
Yeah. That would be really cool.

Speaker 2 But you know, Kingdom of Heaven had this.

Speaker 2 I don't try to remember the last one. In Glorious Bastards, I think the, not Inglorious Bastards, Hateful Eight had the overture and then the intermission, but it's pretty rare.

Speaker 1 Intermission for a movie that's less than two hours is aggressive.

Speaker 2 Yes. Although I do like the enforced, like, you're going to want to go pee because this is about to get really real.

Speaker 1 Craig, what did you think when you started watching this movie? And for two and a half minutes, nothing happened. And it was just a picture.

Speaker 2 I was like, the Sopranos ending. I was like, is my screen broken?

Speaker 2 This is some good scrolling time right now on my phone while this is going on.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's weird, but I don't know. It kind of fits the movie.
All right. What's age the best?

Speaker 1 What do you have?

Speaker 2 I'm like, the knot of approval meme.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's a good certainly like number

Speaker 2 I like the crazy John Millius dialogue when people do talk in this movie I feel like it's pretty memorable and it's got that that really incredible, you know dialect of of this Sort of formal English with this frontiersy abrasiveness.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And also

Speaker 2 you want it to come back

Speaker 1 maybe Amazon Prime for their NBA coverage.

Speaker 2 They just have everybody

Speaker 2 and Black. What's the other guy's name?

Speaker 2 Bearclaw. Bear Claw and Delgue.
You're sitting next to Dirk. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Dirk, I smelled you for three days.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And then there's just a couple of really outside of the nodding meme, there's a couple of really good Redford reactions.
Yeah. Especially when Del Gu's got him in the TP

Speaker 2 doing like the parlay. And he's like, man, this is really going on for a long time.
And then he ends up with a wife. Yeah.

Speaker 1 There you go. What do you have, Dad? Any what's age the best for you?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think for me, you and I have talked how we typically don't like movies that have voiceovers.

Speaker 3 But I really thought the voiceovers in this movie and the music was terrific. And both things for me,

Speaker 3 usually don't like, but I really like them in this movie.

Speaker 1 Yet another thing that you can tell were related.

Speaker 1 I'm mostly anti-narrator. It's like, prove to me we needed a narrator for this.
But this one actually, I think, needed a narrator. It was also like the right kind of voice for a narrator.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Very calming.

Speaker 1 He just sounded like he should be narrating.

Speaker 1 I have a couple with Sage the best.

Speaker 1 This is the big one for me. I think,

Speaker 1 and I think we have to discuss whether this is a new category. Okay.

Speaker 1 Scene to scene, one of the great facial hair performances ever in a movie. Unbelievable.
He's got five o'clock shadow. He's got a little more than that.

Speaker 1 Then at one point, he's got a beard where it almost looks like it's on his cheeks at so high.

Speaker 2 Completely wild. Then he shaved, then it's back.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 they said they filmed this forever. Like it's filmed for like six, seven months.

Speaker 1 And the way they use his facial hair, it really feels that way, where it's like he shaved, his wife's dead, and wife and boy are dead. And then when he goes to get the...

Speaker 1 the crows he's got like the right amount of facial hair where it's like oh it's been probably a week yeah yeah

Speaker 3 Why are you there?

Speaker 1 You don't agree with me? You're laughing?

Speaker 2 No, I was just laughing.

Speaker 1 You like what I call him boy?

Speaker 2 I want you to start calling Ben boy.

Speaker 2 Hello, boy.

Speaker 1 I'm going to start doing that.

Speaker 1 But I was thinking, is that a new category potentially? Most inspired facial hair or facial hair.

Speaker 2 It wasn't a careful boy. It would definitely work.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Jeremiah Johnson facial hair has actually become a character.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's like achievement in facial hair. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Craig, were you just jealous of the beards? I mean,

Speaker 1 of course.

Speaker 2 I can't grow a beard to save my life.

Speaker 1 That's You're just watching, like, God, what a. I almost feel like this is why Redford took the movie.
It's like, oh, I can try out all my different beards.

Speaker 2 Short beard, big beard. It changes the shape of his face.
I think a lot of people, that meme, people didn't know that was Robert Redford for a while because he's kind of a rounded face.

Speaker 2 He has such a chiseled jaw, but the beard makes it look so much rounder. You wouldn't know it was him.

Speaker 3 There is a conspiracy theory that there was some beard extension.

Speaker 2 Where are you guys getting these Jeremiah?

Speaker 1 He's making this up. He made that up.

Speaker 2 There's no conspiracy theory. um

Speaker 1 I like what's age the best I like that the crows built a statue for Jeremiah and all his kills like a little memorial place like it was out of respect but they're also still trying to kill him right it's pretty good yeah it would be like uh it would be like the basic like the jersey swap yeah

Speaker 2 like bills fans of flood and lamar at the end of a game you know i or i was thinking sixers fans come on like keeping a tatum shrine we were being nice to each other

Speaker 1 i guess i can't talk about Tatum.

Speaker 2 I like

Speaker 1 in the 1840s where they would just call people by the most basic. He's called Pilgrim, Woman, Boy.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 There's only like nine people out there on a 300-mile radius. You could kind of get away with that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you didn't need to know names back then. The song in the beginning, I enjoyed.

Speaker 1 Bearclaw, just hunting grizzlies and collecting the claws. That's his thing.
He's like Sean with Blu-ray.

Speaker 1 Just like, I got some more blue

Speaker 2 Barrows.

Speaker 2 If we just called him Sean Blu-ray, Fenton.

Speaker 2 Blu-ray.

Speaker 1 That would be his Native American name.

Speaker 1 Also, this guy said,

Speaker 1 Bear Claw says to him, You're the same dumb pilgrim that I've been hearing for 20 days and smelling for three.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of like, how much are people being watched in this movie?

Speaker 2 Like if you're tracked, which is really kind of fascinating because you have to imagine the crow must have seen Jeremiah lead the cavalry through the burial ground yeah so yeah it's it's getting getting surveilled out there well i would you know when they when the uh when the uh reverend and the lieutenant come to his cabin the first thing they say is we're being watched yeah that's right he says yeah you're in crow territory this is crow land

Speaker 1 the other thing You know, scents are a recurring theme in this movie.

Speaker 1 You mentioned it earlier with the pants or my dad did yeah

Speaker 1 the odors must have been just horrific i just i can't even imagine you must just be noseblind at a certain point right you yeah you must like it it must just

Speaker 2 you just can't smell anything because it's so bad you're that part of your brain just must die and like there's no refrigeration for really so you're just dragging meat around like i i just think that they were living on the edge of that stuff yeah

Speaker 3 i thought badly for swan that she didn't have Redford take a little bath before he got into the sleeping bag.

Speaker 1 Yeah, she probably should have demanded that, but I don't think she had a lot of leverage at that point after having been given away by her dad.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so you have that, but you also, I think, like, they

Speaker 1 I think people smelled so bad you could actually like hunt other people or chase down other people.

Speaker 1 Like, that's like the last level of BO.

Speaker 2 It's like, I've been chilling you for days.

Speaker 1 Redford said, Redford apparently did most of the action scenes for this movie. And he said, half the fun of making movies is doing the action scenes.
Anyone can say words.

Speaker 1 I never do the stunts where a pro could pull it off, say for a better, but I do like the action where the camera's too close to tell a lie.

Speaker 1 And the movie's insurance men are back at the office making out policies. Like takes a shot.
But he would pay off. If he did the stunts, he would still make sure they got paid.
That's good.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 There's a couple of of uh the fights they look like he's taking real like tumbles yeah no question the one where he gets hit in the head and then he winds up in the creek and like you know he base basically like wins the fight and passes out yeah that looked like he was like really feeling it yeah no question the last one is one that i never noticed which i'm ashamed to admit because this movie's been in my life my whole life and i don't ever remember my sage dad ever making this point.

Speaker 3 Well, it depends what the point is.

Speaker 1 You certainly never said this to me. If you did, I forgot.

Speaker 1 People think on the on the internets, people think this movie is set.

Speaker 1 He goes up the mountain as a journey and then comes back down. And when he comes back down, he goes, goes through all the same things he saw when he went back up.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 1 I think that might be true.

Speaker 2 He ends pretty much at the same spot that he first saw,

Speaker 2 right? At the creek. Right.

Speaker 1 And stream. And then where he saw a crazy lady, he goes back there.
And that's where the new family lives. And he ascends up and then down.
And it's like, and the ascent down is faster. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But it's the same this thing. I don't know if that you believe that one, Dad? You've seen this movie 197 times.

Speaker 3 I never even thought about that aspect, but part of it is not knowing where does he go next.

Speaker 1 Right. How long did he live? Right.

Speaker 1 Maybe he goes back and fights the war. That could have been the sequel.

Speaker 2 Well, one of my low-chief favorites

Speaker 2 is when Delgue says goodbye for the last time and they're like, where are you going? He's like, where are you going?

Speaker 2 He's like, the Andes, because like this area is too trapped out and is now even with the settlers arriving, like losing its appeal.

Speaker 2 He's like, I got to go. Delgue's like, the Andes.

Speaker 1 It's all out there.

Speaker 2 Just got to grab it.

Speaker 3 But Redford says he's going to Canada.

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 3 But never ends up actually

Speaker 3 can't go because there's too many people trying to kill him. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Last of what's aged the best for me is just this movie in the Redford catalog, I think, is really important. Yes.
He doesn't really have another movie like this.

Speaker 2 Until All Was Lost. Right.
Right.

Speaker 1 Basically, like that's if you take this out, I think it's a lot of parts that feel like they're vaguely related to each other. Either he's the super handsome guy or he's the guy.

Speaker 1 on the run from somebody or

Speaker 1 this one I just think kind of stands apart for him. That's a good one.
Dad, we never asked what

Speaker 1 is Redford like in the all-time rankings for you? Like is he Mount Rushmore for you? Where is he?

Speaker 3 Yeah, he's Mount Rushmore for me. Think of all the, you listed earlier all the movies he's been in.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You know, a lot of them with the same director, but we've watched all those movies. And then when they come on again on TV, I watch them again.

Speaker 1 Well, then the natural is one of your top five or six.

Speaker 3 Oh, sure.

Speaker 2 It has to be. Have you you done the natural? I know I wasn't on.

Speaker 1 Did it with Mallory? I think they're in COVID. Yeah.
I mean, listen, we could always bring it back.

Speaker 2 Could you, Dr. Bullig, in the early 70s, is there any way to describe how famous this guy was?

Speaker 2 Like, as he's getting into this run where he's the way we were, Condor, Jeremiah Johnson, the standards presidents, like, and he's just the, I mean, like,

Speaker 2 how does it compare to somebody like Cruz now or DiCaprio now? And like, the way we talk about, I mean, like, what what was it like

Speaker 3 I think I think he had a better body of work than the people that you just mentioned yeah I think he was very likable you know there were no scandals about him that I recall and

Speaker 3 you know he made a significant contribution to the entire acting community when he started Sundance yeah I think his movement towards sundance I think he he picked, he was very careful with the movies he picked.

Speaker 3 And it's hard to remember a movie that was not well done in which he received criticism.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 3 So I think he might have,

Speaker 3 for me, he was probably the biggest star from 72 to,

Speaker 3 well, continuing on for quite a while. Clint moved in there for me as well.

Speaker 3 His movies were terrific to watch.

Speaker 3 For me, it's always, do you want to re-watch the movie? And I wanted to rewatch his movies.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was funny because

Speaker 1 it was him and Eastwood, but then Newman was in there. Burt Reynolds kind of passed through for a few years.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 that was really it for the mega. And Warren Beatty, but he would only make a movie every couple of years.

Speaker 2 You mentioned something, Dr. Bill.

Speaker 2 His floor is pretty high. Yeah.
There's not a lot of clunkers.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you trust that if he was in something and like, all right, I'll give that.

Speaker 2 And even now, like, because I think a lot of people have been going back to his films since since his passing. It's like, well,

Speaker 2 even the ones that we don't really talk about are still pretty good. You know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I was waiting for one of the streamers to just have some crazy Redford deal where it was like, you know, like they're too scattered.

Speaker 2 75

Speaker 2 all over the place. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Come on, Tubi.

Speaker 3 Goes back to something one of you said earlier. It was his favorite movie

Speaker 3 that he made. That says an awful lot to me

Speaker 3 because the diversity of the movies he made over his career,

Speaker 3 this was unique in my perspective, in terms of the type of movie he made. And it was his favorite.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right, we're doing some quickie categories. The Big Kahuna Burger Award for best use of food drink.

Speaker 2 Swan's hot pockets that she makes the first night and then he tosses them. Why were they so bad? I think it was probably different seasoning techniques or a lack of.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't know if they had salt that they would use, but I just was shocked at how terrible he thought it tasted. I mean, it was probably so bland.

Speaker 1 All he ate was like bear jerky.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He probably couldn't even, his body couldn't even handle it.

Speaker 2 But I love how he like goes over to the horse and he's like, hmm. And he's like, oh, Jesus.

Speaker 1 Great shot, Gordo Award, most cinematic shot. What do you got?

Speaker 2 I have the shot of Delgue's head sticking out of the sand as Caleb and Jeremiah come over the ridge there. And it also is like one of the turning points of the movie.
Delgue really.

Speaker 2 changes the trajectory of Jeremiah's life in a lot of ways. And I like that they've come out of like this

Speaker 2 kind of like there they go. You wind up in like the sandy desert for a few minutes out there.
Like it's so many different climates and landscapes.

Speaker 1 Kid Cutty Pursuit of Happiness where Best Needle Drops got to be the ending. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And some folks see.

Speaker 1 Chess Rockwell, Brock Landers award for best character name.

Speaker 2 Paints his shirt red. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Can I make the case for Jeremiah Johnson?

Speaker 2 What a fucking great name. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, like, just pick a sport where that guy would be the coolest guy. Jeremiah Johnson, like the new wide receiver for the San Francisco 49ers.

Speaker 2 Pro football reference really quick and see if there's a Jeremiah Johnson that's come through.

Speaker 1 I think Jeremiah just needs to come back as a name. Yeah.
We have a million Jalen sounds.

Speaker 2 We could have two Jeremiahs. I think he was a good run on the summer I turned pretty Jeremiah.

Speaker 1 Oh, really? Yeah. So it's coming back.

Speaker 3 It fit the music.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Jeremiah Johnson. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Fit syllables. There was a running back who went to Oregon who played in the NFL for a little bit, Jeremiah Johnson.
I need that name back.

Speaker 1 I also really like Paints His Shirt Red is strong.

Speaker 3 Paints his shirt red is a good one.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

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Speaker 1 So, Dad, CR gets a flex category every episode where he can do whatever he wants. What is it this episode?

Speaker 2 We usually save this for thrillers and horror movies, but I'm going with When Would I Have Died?

Speaker 1 I snuck that in for later.

Speaker 2 I'm glad you're doing this. How long were you going to last? Uh, when the snow fell on my fire in the first 10 minutes of the movie, I died.

Speaker 2 Don't know how to come back from that. Honestly, I freeze to death.
If not that, definitely when I fell in the creek fishing, I would have just frozen to death. I just died of frost.

Speaker 2 I don't have a change of clothes. I don't have a towel.
There's no, I don't have a foil blanket to wrap around me.

Speaker 2 And then certainly when I got buried up to my head in the sand by Blackfeet Warriors, that's when I would have died.

Speaker 1 I think I would have died in the Mexican War and the movie never would have happened.

Speaker 1 That's a good one, though. Yeah, 20 minutes, Max.
Yeah. I wouldn't have been able to see.
I I would have just been walking in the glass.

Speaker 1 The Butch's Girlfriend Award for week link of the film. We mentioned this.
Jeremiah's decision to go through the crowbar ground.

Speaker 1 It's never sat right with me from in the five decades that I've been watching this movie. I just don't think he would do it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like he just kind of gets bullied into it by the reverend and the and the oh, we got to go through. Oh, it's another 20 miles.
I just, I know he's trying to help people out, but I don't know, Dad.

Speaker 1 I'm just, I just think he would know that this is a bad thing to do. We can't do this.

Speaker 3 I think he would know. He lived in Crow Land in friendship for so many years.
I think he would know, don't do this. Don't do this.

Speaker 1 Well, it's like, it's like Steve Ballmer.

Speaker 1 Like, you have to know, don't keep giving aspiration to money.

Speaker 2 There's a soldier in him still there that like sort of responds to the lieutenant.

Speaker 1 Or maybe,

Speaker 1 I don't know, he was happy, though. I was thinking like it was almost a suicide mission, but no, he was just playing the cross with woman and boy.

Speaker 2 It's such a good line when

Speaker 2 he's like,

Speaker 2 we can't do this. Like, this is sacred ground to them.
And the Reverend's like, you can't believe that, can you? And he's like, it doesn't matter what I believe. They believe it.
Yeah. You know?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's true. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I just stopped buying that. I think that's the weak link.
What stage is the worst?

Speaker 2 Oh, what do you have?

Speaker 3 I have another weak link.

Speaker 3 When I watch the movie again, he got an axe in the back. He got a spear in the stomach.

Speaker 3 He almost had his left eye taken out.

Speaker 3 And that doesn't count the 50 fights that we never saw.

Speaker 3 He had no medical attention. No.

Speaker 3 How did he not die?

Speaker 2 Big time sepsis risk.

Speaker 1 It was Jeremiah Johnson. He was just a legend.

Speaker 1 Guy couldn't be brought down.

Speaker 2 My weakest link is, you know, we get five minutes of an overture and five minutes of credits or a couple of minutes of credits i could have done like five minutes in the town before he takes off

Speaker 2 maybe takes

Speaker 2 one night in a the bed of a of a of a lady of the evening oh maybe goes to a bar throws a couple back hears some steel in a whorehouse scene to start out jeremiah johnson i just wanted like the in the script he spends a little bit more time in the town and so i was just like there's some idea there i think that's a really good point because remember when del q joins up with him the second time and he, the Indian comes after him out of the in the nighttime, out of the blue, yeah, throws a spear on him.

Speaker 3 He says, Is this how it is? One at a time.

Speaker 3 And then he says to Jeremiah, maybe you should go to the town. And

Speaker 3 Jeremiah says, I've been in the town. Yeah.
Well, we never saw that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because he goes off the boat and he's like, which way is the mountain?

Speaker 1 Poker debts.

Speaker 2 Poker debts. Yeah, he got Jeremiah got cleaned out.

Speaker 1 Game five card, five card stud.

Speaker 1 What's age the worst?

Speaker 1 Giving your daughter away as a repayment for a gift. Yeah.
Probably does it translate to the 2020s. I feel like there would be some TikTok memes about that.

Speaker 3 But it wasn't a giving away. It was a trade.
It was a trade.

Speaker 1 He traded his daughter. I'd be like, if I traded Zoe,

Speaker 3 but for some really good scalps.

Speaker 2 Yeah, true. Yeah, fair.

Speaker 1 They didn't cast a Native American for the role of Swan.

Speaker 1 They cast somebody named Del Del Bolton. This was her only film.
She only had one other screen credit, a 2002 episode of TV's Monk.

Speaker 2 Really?

Speaker 1 30 years later, just as on Monk.

Speaker 1 Fascinating. Yeah, I don't know how to explain that.
And then what saves the worst? The Bearclaw Jeremiah scenes.

Speaker 1 I'll just say, I wouldn't have subscribed to their podcast.

Speaker 2 That's a respectful pass from us. Yeah.
New episode episode of the Ringer Podcast Network.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you know, Bearclaw and Jeremiah, the guys from Jeremiah Johnson, they're pitching a pod. Do you think that they want to talk to people who are successful?

Speaker 2 What about Delgue and Bearclaw?

Speaker 1 Delgue, now I'm interested in Delgue.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. It has kind of a Kevin Wilde's Nick Wright vibe to it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think he's on a player podcast.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's like him, Wemby, and Jeremy Sohan.

Speaker 2 Just getting them going.

Speaker 2 The three of them.

Speaker 1 The Ruffalo Hannah Rubin and Percy.

Speaker 2 I had a watch day is the worst.

Speaker 1 Oh, let's hear it.

Speaker 2 It's a little bit of a cheat. I know you guys love the music.
I love the music in this. But the idea of having a song in the beginning of the movie that kind of lays out the plot of the movie.

Speaker 2 And I was thinking about why they stopped doing this and what would happen if it was just like, John Wick was a dog dad, but then the Russian mob killed his dog.

Speaker 2 So he dug in the ground and got his guns out and turned into the Baba Yaga. They're going to regret that.

Speaker 2 They're just like, and then you're like, I guess I don't have to watch the movie now.

Speaker 1 DM Nason would have been a taken would have been a good one, too.

Speaker 2 Elisha Cuthbert's going to the concert, even though her dad doesn't want to.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's a really good name. She doesn't need to see you, too.

Speaker 2 Albanians looking for

Speaker 2 Bruce Willis was dead the whole time.

Speaker 2 You're going to want to

Speaker 2 pay special attention to Kevin Spacey in this movie about criminals.

Speaker 2 Don't trust his limp.

Speaker 1 Dad, when did that stop?

Speaker 1 What's that?

Speaker 2 When they did a song in the beauty of the movie

Speaker 1 that explained everything that you were about to see.

Speaker 2 Probably a good trend to stop.

Speaker 3 I can't think of another movie after that that did that.

Speaker 1 Ruffalo Hannah Rubinik Partridge Overacting Awards. This is another category we had, Dad.
Crazy Mourning Lady who just lost her family. She dials it up.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but i mean what's the appropriate amount of grief to be exhibiting in that situation well she she exhibited it yeah dog you i i think uh probably is the winner though for for dialing it up yeah he's really going for it i spent some time with ruffalo i did not do they knew to his face though

Speaker 1 you did i did not i did not he's like are you one of the motherfuckers for that rewatchable spot

Speaker 1 uh Next category, the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest take award.

Speaker 2 This was really hard for me.

Speaker 2 I just, but so it's not even that hot. I just think I would have taken two or three more Redford survival movies, that this was an untapped micro-genre of his.

Speaker 2 Between this and All is Lost, he was obviously like a big nature guy, and I would have been really good athlete. Yeah, like he did, he does water in All is Lost.
He does the mountains.

Speaker 2 Like, I would have loved to have had some more outdoors

Speaker 2 nature stuff.

Speaker 1 He needed like a Mel Gibson ransom type of movie where he's somebody, somebody he loves got taken or stolen or he has to go back. Yeah, something like that.

Speaker 1 I thought he was really good at being athletic. He does some running in this movie.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he does downhill racing.

Speaker 1 We talked about his great running in general. Yeah.
He runs in three days of the condor.

Speaker 2 I just did some flying and Waldo Pepper, but like I would just be into some more like solo adventurer,

Speaker 2 you know, like

Speaker 2 give me a mountain climber movie. Oh, you know?

Speaker 3 Well, this movie, he was the right, what was he, mid-30s?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Great shape, mid-30s, the right age to do this kind of outdoor movie.

Speaker 3 I can't think of a,

Speaker 3 was there a movie where he played a bad guy?

Speaker 1 No, he never ever was a bad guy. I don't think.
I think he's.

Speaker 2 Is he bad in the Avengers movies? I can't, or the Captain America movies. I can't remember.
I don't think he's good.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 Asking the wrong guy. Yeah,

Speaker 2 wrong crowd.

Speaker 1 You didn't have a, I I didn't tell you to do a hottest take, right?

Speaker 3 Hottest take? No. No.

Speaker 2 Okay. Well, I have one.

Speaker 1 So I did a whole deep dive on when he starts fighting the crows, how many people he killed.

Speaker 1 And we see 13 kills.

Speaker 1 And I'll do my take in a second.

Speaker 1 When he fights the five crows initially, kills two with a shotgun, one with a rifle swing to the head, pulls the guy off the horse, stabs him in the heart, Then gets stabbed in the back, shoots the guy who knives him in the back, cuts the throat of the last guy.

Speaker 1 So that's actually six.

Speaker 1 And then lets the singing death guy who's singing his death chant. Turns out great way to get out of being murdered.

Speaker 2 Tell your homies all about me.

Speaker 1 You just got to remember like a 30-second death chant, and people are like, oh shit, I didn't know you were going to do that. I'm going to let you go now.
So he's six there.

Speaker 1 The next two kills, the guy shows up when he's fishing, which is great. And that guy gets off his horse.
it's like a UFC.

Speaker 2 He needed entrance music, being like, Welcome to the jungle. He just comes in.

Speaker 1 And then the guy hiding in the snow.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. I love this guy.

Speaker 1 How committed was the guy hiding in the snow?

Speaker 2 What if Jeremiah Johnson doesn't come by? Yeah, what if he fell asleep? Guys, in the snow,

Speaker 1 just dressed. He has no clothes on.

Speaker 2 He's just like, this is a good move.

Speaker 1 So that's eight.

Speaker 1 And then has the five-kill montage that includes throws a guy off a mountain, pummels a guy, hockey fight style, shoots a guy, fights someone, but we don't see the death, and then kills a guy in the water.

Speaker 1 So that's 13.

Speaker 1 And then the final kill when he plays dead and sees the guy from through the horse's eyes, shoots the guy, gets speared. That's 14.

Speaker 2 My hottest take. I could have

Speaker 3 seen.

Speaker 1 Yeah, 14. Yeah.
Well, this leads to my hottest take.

Speaker 2 Five, six more.

Speaker 1 How about 13 more?

Speaker 1 I could have gone to 28 to 30. I could have kept watching this.

Speaker 1 Not enough kills.

Speaker 2 John Wick killed like 100 people.

Speaker 1 Were you like, ah, John Wick killed too many people in this movie?

Speaker 2 I think it's also just that they keep finding creative ways to do it in the mountain landscape. Like the guy who's like, he just ran out of waves.

Speaker 1 Maybe. Yeah.
Where was the guy jumping out of a tree on top of them?

Speaker 1 They missed that. They didn't do it.
They missed the guy coming out of the water. You second-guessing quarterbacks going through their progressions.

Speaker 2 How can you not see your check down right there?

Speaker 1 Somebody under the bed, I thought would have been a good one. It just gives me less of murders on the table.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I like it.

Speaker 1 All right, casting what ifs. Dad, the role of Jeremiah was originally intended for Lee Marvin.

Speaker 1 And then, yeah, that's a no.

Speaker 1 And then Clint Eastwood, directed by Sam Peckinpaw, and that was in motion. And then Sam Peckinpaw, they didn't get along.
And Eastwood left and he did Dirty Harry instead.

Speaker 2 Anybody else you'd rather see in this role or you could imagine in this role?

Speaker 1 I think McQueen would have been interesting. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 1 McQueen could have been okay, not as good as Redford.

Speaker 3 McQueen could have been very good in the role. He could have done all his physical action stunts and everything.

Speaker 1 I don't know if Burt Reynolds could have pulled it off.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I can't see him in the wilderness.

Speaker 1 The other thing with pulling this off is you really have to have the beard game.

Speaker 2 Who would be another beard actor?

Speaker 3 But you know, there's another aspect of pulling it off. redford loved nature yeah

Speaker 3 his whole life outside of acting was about nature um

Speaker 3 being at being at peace with nature um leading and and the utah scenery yeah i mean that's where he ended up anyway so i'm not sure anybody else could have pulled it off best that guy award so unger from longest yard is charles yeah the first the bad guy from longest yard

Speaker 1 and then paul benedict from the jeffersons yeah those are the two

Speaker 2 Just as a passing moment,

Speaker 2 the family that moves into the crazy lady,

Speaker 2 her house, the daughter is country music star Tanya Tucker.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 One of the young blonde girls. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Deion Waiters Award. Is it Bearclaw or is it W? W.

Speaker 2 W?

Speaker 2 W.

Speaker 2 W.

Speaker 1 I had to explain what Deion Waiters was to my dad. Yeah, but I don't think he's a big rewatchables listener.

Speaker 2 But he's a big Deion Waiters watcher, isn't he? Yeah. He enjoyed Dion Waiters.
Eastern Conference Basketball. But now we have

Speaker 1 Keyt Pritchards is now the new Deion Waiters.

Speaker 2 Yeah. No? The committee's still out on that.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Recasting Couch Director City.

Speaker 1 I made a list of Jeremiah Johnson by the decade. Okay.

Speaker 1 You ready for this, Dad?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 In 1982, I think it's Harrison Ford.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 In 1992, I think it's Daniel Day-Lewis.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 2002 was easier than I expected because it's definitely Russell Crowe.

Speaker 2 I was waiting for you to say that.

Speaker 1 Russell Crowe, 100% Jeremiah Johnson. I think he would have been awesome.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Stuff of legends.

Speaker 2 Caruso could have played Doku. Yeah, Caruso's Doku.

Speaker 1 By the way, is there still time to make that?

Speaker 1 2012, Brad Pitt or Affleck?

Speaker 2 Pitt.

Speaker 3 Brad Pitt for me. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So 20

Speaker 2 in that role.

Speaker 1 2022, I left open.

Speaker 3 How about Damon in that role, though?

Speaker 1 I thought about Damon, but I think he loses out to Russell Crowe in 02, and I think he loses out to Pitt in 2002.

Speaker 2 Pitt's more Western to me, too.

Speaker 1 And Pitt would have loved the facial hair. Yeah.

Speaker 2 He's from a grow beard.

Speaker 1 He would have been like, hey, the Peace Pipe scene with the Crows, like maybe we could use real marijuana for that and make that scene longer.

Speaker 1 2022, though, I couldn't come up with. Who is Jeremiah Johnson for this decade? We need Craig's help.

Speaker 1 Craig, what do you got?

Speaker 1 Because it's not like Chalamay.

Speaker 2 No. You know who would do it?

Speaker 2 Pratt.

Speaker 2 Because he's kind of like got to be a little bit more.

Speaker 1 I don't think that he's the same kind of star, though.

Speaker 2 Like Hemsworth, but again, it's too tainted by the Marvel thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's almost like all the people who are in Marvel.

Speaker 2 You think Austin Butler could do it?

Speaker 2 I don't know if he could grow the beard.

Speaker 1 How tall is he?

Speaker 2 Six feet?

Speaker 2 He's decently big size. Austin Butler.

Speaker 1 Is he old enough, though, though?

Speaker 2 I don't think he is. He's like mid-20s now.
No, no. Austin Butler's like 35, I think.
Austin Butler's 35? I think so. Damn.

Speaker 1 Could we zag and do the Michael B. Jordan, just Jeremiah is black, and it's never explained?

Speaker 2 That would be good. Sure.

Speaker 1 Because if we can do that, I'm going backwards and Denzel in 1992.

Speaker 2 The Black Jeremiah Johnson history awards.

Speaker 1 Which is never talked about.

Speaker 2 Ryan Gosling.

Speaker 1 Ryan Gosling. What do you think of that one, Dad?

Speaker 2 It should come a little too like Santa Barbara now. Oh, if they removed the fillers from his face, that's what I was going to say.
They cover the facial hair over the fillers.

Speaker 1 Maybe. I don't think we have a 2020.

Speaker 2 I think Josling could have done it, though. Maybe.

Speaker 1 Pre-Barbie.

Speaker 2 Glenn Powell. I can't think of anybody.

Speaker 1 Glenn Powell's too happy.

Speaker 2 What if he really?

Speaker 1 I love Glenn Powell, but he's too happy. I was even thinking, like, could Teller do it?

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 1 Jeremiah Johnson needs to seem damaged. Glenn Powell's too happy.

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 the difference between

Speaker 2 all those men that you just named, they seem like real guys. And now everyone's a little bit too Hollywood.
Would you allow a British person to be Jeremiah Johnson?

Speaker 1 If you wanted to, like, stab me in the soul. Great.

Speaker 2 Like Andrew Garfield as Jeremiah Johnson?

Speaker 1 Just kill me. I'd be so mad.

Speaker 2 If they remade Jeremiah Johnson with Andrew Garfield, I don't know what i would do but it wouldn't be great craig you have a flex category what do you got i want to go back to great shot gordo you guys didn't you you didn't really touch on the scene the shot of the bear chasing jeremiah johnson into the cabin is one of the more impressive shots it's a real bear chasing a real guy yeah yeah and they it's like chasing redford and it's definitely

Speaker 2 the wolf attack Seems like it's like a stunt guy with a wolf. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Sometimes when you don't have the capability of, you know, special effects, it's even more impressive, and it actually looks better.

Speaker 2 I was, I was in shock of that of that long dolly shot, just watching the bear go into the cabin. I thought that was incredible.

Speaker 1 Now, they would just do it on Sora too.

Speaker 1 The bear with the bear would be supernatural.

Speaker 2 I'm gonna go home and put, say, like, put a British guy in Jeremiah Johnson and send it to Bill Simmons.

Speaker 1 I'd be so

Speaker 3 the bear was actually chasing bear claw.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Uh, a couple half-ass internet research things. Filmed in nearly 100 locations across Utah.

Speaker 1 Apparently, Sidney Pollock mortgaged his home.

Speaker 2 We don't make guys do this anymore.

Speaker 1 He's he was just really committed to the filming, and they were running out of money. And he said, fuck it.

Speaker 2 Before we stop working with each other, I'm going to do this to you. I'm going to be like, I want to start the Chris Ryan show, but I'll put up my house as collateral.
I'm going to mortgage my home.

Speaker 2 And you're like, it's okay. You don't have to do that.
No, no, no. No, no, I want to do it.
Just for the story.

Speaker 1 They said it was so cold that they couldn't really do second takes.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 Redford said the crew was pretty miserable. Yeah.
But he was very appreciative. But they were basically like, let's shoot that scene with Bear Clogging.

Speaker 2 Like, it wasn't happening. I saw, there's, when you watch this movie, you're like, I don't know how they got the crew out there.
I don't know how they started. Like, they must have hauled the colours.

Speaker 1 It's like the Jaws thing, where it's like, they just kind of didn't know any better.

Speaker 1 so Dell

Speaker 1 apparently the tribes back then they considered people crazy touched right to be uh untouchable, they were like sacred.

Speaker 1 So, Dell would talk to himself, apparently, because then they would be like, oh, that guy's crazy, we're leaving him alone.

Speaker 2 And that's when they uh, when he comes across the woman who's lost her family, he's like,

Speaker 2 they're not gonna bother you anymore because you're touched.

Speaker 1 Jeremiah Johnson premiered at Cannes, the film festival, and it was the first Western film to ever be accepted in the festival.

Speaker 1 And then,

Speaker 1 oh, Redford said seven cases of frostbite, four cases of strep throat, two cases of pneumonia, and only three cases of Napoleon brandy.

Speaker 1 He said,

Speaker 1 he said,

Speaker 1 he lived there year-round and knew how tough a Utah winter could be, but it ended up being great for the film.

Speaker 2 I think they tried to give them a bigger budget, but encouraged encouraged them to shoot, I guess, in California or somewhere else. And they're like, we'll take less money as long as you're shooting.

Speaker 1 Just enough juice to make them film in Utah.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 3 They filmed a little bit in Arizona.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Apex Mountain. Redford, no.
We already decided it was the Sting.

Speaker 1 Did that last episode, right?

Speaker 2 What about mountains in movies?

Speaker 2 Apex Mountain for mountains.

Speaker 1 It's pretty good. I mean, Brokeback Mountain had mountain in the title.

Speaker 2 True.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 2 I think you might be right because of the Brokeback Mountain takes place off the mountain, though. Yeah, true.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Thinking about getting back to Brokeback Mountain.

Speaker 2 Brokeback Mountain. It's always in their minds.

Speaker 1 The overture of just the wide shot of the mountain for two and a half minutes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, would you say Apex Mountain for Mountains, Dad?

Speaker 1 Yeah. He doesn't even know what Apex Mountain is.
I was going

Speaker 2 to say this or the mountain in Alive.

Speaker 2 Oh.

Speaker 2 Equally different. Cliffhanger? Oh, Cliffhanger's.
Silestalone. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Trying to think what other mountains.

Speaker 3 Well, the Iger Sanction, that movie.

Speaker 2 Iger Sanction.

Speaker 2 The Everest.

Speaker 1 How about The Edge with Baldwin and Hopkins? True.

Speaker 1 Sidney Pollock, the answer is no.

Speaker 2 What is the answer?

Speaker 1 I think it's probably Tootsie.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Because then that leads to Africa. Yeah, Tootsie was, he crushed that one.

Speaker 2 Not him wearing suspenders with no shirt.

Speaker 1 Well, that's our apex mountain for him. You know, Sidney Pollock, the director, who's, I think, a

Speaker 1 first ballot hall of famer as a director, sure, is also an eyeswide shut dad playing a really weird guy in the movie.

Speaker 3 I didn't know he was. It's a movie I avoided.

Speaker 2 Yeah, good idea. It's sexually deviant lawyer, right? Good idea.

Speaker 1 It's sexually deviant lawyer. Good way to put it.
Apex Mountain for Crow Barrow Grounds. I'm going to say 100%.
100%.

Speaker 1 So Will Gere, who's in this movie as

Speaker 2 Delhi? Delgue? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Or Bearclaw.

Speaker 2 I think he's as Bearclaw.

Speaker 3 Bearclaw. Bearclaw.

Speaker 1 That same year, he began his role as Grandpa in the Waltons.

Speaker 2 Oh.

Speaker 1 Apex Mountain. Lock it down.

Speaker 2 Way to go, Will. What a year.

Speaker 1 The Waltons was huge. You know what the Waltons was, Craig?

Speaker 2 No. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It was the biggest drama of the 70s.

Speaker 1 It was set. When was the Walton set?

Speaker 1 Dad, do you remember?

Speaker 2 It's like setting up. I didn't remember.

Speaker 1 Sitting watching. Big show with your brothers and sisters, though.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah, they liked it.

Speaker 1 That Little House in the the prairie,

Speaker 2 yeah.

Speaker 2 Uh, I don't have it either.

Speaker 3 Did we ever see Del Q again in another movie?

Speaker 2 He did not have much of a credit, yeah. This is, yeah, there was

Speaker 2 this did not lead to him getting his own show and Stefan Gersach and Girash, and he was in a hundred things, but a lot of TV. Yeah,

Speaker 1 he was probably a lot of things where he's in Dave.

Speaker 2 Oh, so shout out to that. He's in Miami Vice season five, episode 16, Victim of Circumstance.

Speaker 3 Oh, Bill, you must remember that one.

Speaker 2 I don't remember that one.

Speaker 1 I'm bad on season five.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and that's pretty much it.

Speaker 1 Next category, Dad, Cruz or Hanks.

Speaker 1 If you could put Cruz or Hanks in this movie, which one would you pick?

Speaker 3 Hanks.

Speaker 2 Hanks. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I went with Cruz because I think it becomes a comedy.

Speaker 1 I don't want a comedy.

Speaker 1 I think I want to see the Cruz version of this more. Hanks is the obvious choice, but

Speaker 1 Cruz Jeremiah Johnson is hilarious.

Speaker 2 It is pretty funny.

Speaker 3 But immediately,

Speaker 3 the Reacher series and Cruz playing Reacher, if you've read the books.

Speaker 2 I knew this was going to come wrong.

Speaker 3 So I can't see Cruz in any of these roles.

Speaker 1 This is the most upset.

Speaker 2 He's ever been.

Speaker 1 When they cast Tom Cruise as Jack Reacher, it was a violation for my dad.

Speaker 2 Do you like the Amazon series? Of course he does. What are you talking about?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 He likes it very much.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, you know what? Show

Speaker 1 there's a show that has checked the most boxes ever for a Dr. Bill show that's coming out in October.

Speaker 2 What?

Speaker 1 Boston Blue with Donnie Wahlberg.

Speaker 2 This is it.

Speaker 1 This is we finally reached Pete.

Speaker 2 It's my dad. Blue Bloods without Selic.

Speaker 1 But in Boston. Yeah.
And my dad loved Donnie Wahlberg in the show and loves Donnie Wahlberg in general.

Speaker 2 Is Blue Blood set in New York or Boston? It's Blue Bloods is New York. Okay.

Speaker 1 This is Blue Bloods in Boston. How did they explain the Mark Wahlberg being in Blue Bloods, even though he's from Boston part?

Speaker 3 You mean in the original Blue Bloods? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, they never had to explain it.

Speaker 1 He just was a Boston cop in New York for no reason.

Speaker 2 Oh, do you mean?

Speaker 3 No, he was never a Boston cop in

Speaker 3 the original Blue Bloods.

Speaker 3 He was a New York City cop.

Speaker 1 So now he's going to Boston in Boston Blue, Blue, but he's still playing the same character from Blue Bloods, but now he's going to have an exit.

Speaker 3 Well, they haven't had the first episode yet, so I can't answer the question.

Speaker 2 I thought you were going to say with shows that check his boxes, I thought you were going to talk about Landman coming back in November.

Speaker 1 You liked Landman.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he liked Landman.

Speaker 1 No, Boston Blue is the peak for you.

Speaker 3 I'll let you know that I haven't seen it yet. It's not out yet.

Speaker 2 Did you see in Landman season two, Sam Elliott is playing Billy Bob Thornton's dad?

Speaker 1 Of course I saw it.

Speaker 2 Unbelievable. He's like eight years older than Billy Bob Thornton.
They're the same age.

Speaker 1 Scorsese or Spielberg for this movie?

Speaker 2 I had Spielberg, but silence era Scorsese could do the out, you know, he could do the isolation thing, but I have Spielberg.

Speaker 1 I had Spielberg as well.

Speaker 1 Dad, you don't have to weigh in on that. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played in this movie?

Speaker 2 Dog you. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm scared.

Speaker 1 Bearclaw. I think he could have gone Bearclaw, too.

Speaker 3 I'm old enough. All right.

Speaker 1 All right. Picking nits.
This is where we pick nits in the movie. We've already done a couple.

Speaker 1 When his horse died, why didn't he... Is the rule you can't make horse meat if that was your horse? Like, these people are dying to eat anything, right?

Speaker 1 Can you not then eat your horse because it was your horse? Is there some sort of rule?

Speaker 2 He just knows that when he wakes up and the horse is dead next to the, next to him in the camp.

Speaker 1 That's like five meals.

Speaker 2 I assume he still had food from the town at that point. Was he running out of food by then?

Speaker 1 I don't know, but I would definitely eat.

Speaker 2 I love Murph, but if I had to eat, do you mean to have a dog?

Speaker 1 Yeah, but if I'm in the wilderness, if I don't have food, why is Murph in the wilderness?

Speaker 2 I'm just saying. This domesticated animal that's lived all of its life in the posh part of LA and is like, now I'm in fucking Utah.

Speaker 3 Murph is probably in the swimming pool right now.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 What do you have for Nick and Pit?

Speaker 2 Picking nits.

Speaker 2 I just think that there ultimately was like a better way of communicating to those guys just how much he is not going to ride for the burial ground. Like, like you said, the nod is taken.

Speaker 1 Like you raise your gun. It's almost like they had to draw their guns on him and say, we're going to go.
But

Speaker 2 he was like, you guys can go.

Speaker 2 I'm just not doing this. And then he just was like, actually, I changed my mind.
I'm going with you. So there's not a lot of nitpicking here other than.

Speaker 2 After seeing what happened to that woman in the beginning of the movie, I just don't think you leave your kid and your wife

Speaker 3 what do you have dad do you have a big nitpick well i had a nitpick you know when he was leading the group into the burial ground and all of a sudden he was stationary looking like he knew something had happened because he saw the he saw swan's blue trinket yeah on the ground yeah

Speaker 3 well the timing kind of seemed weird because

Speaker 3 If I'm the crow chief, I get upset when he enters the burial burial ground.

Speaker 3 Not necessarily when he's leading the group toward the wagon train.

Speaker 3 So the timing of how do they get that trinket into the burial ground.

Speaker 1 Right, you got to go. He's still going toward the rescue site.

Speaker 1 They're going. They immediately kill woman and boy.
Then they have to bring her trinket all the way back. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that is a good point, Dad.

Speaker 3 It just didn't click. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's almost seemed like he's seen this movie.

Speaker 2 And it also seems like he goes to the wagon train and immediately turns around and starts heading back. He's like, Here it is.
You guys got it. Yeah, that's a good one.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 My other nitpick:

Speaker 1 I know the Crows, like we established, they're 1v1 fighters, right?

Speaker 1 I just feel like if you're coming again and again, somebody's going to figure out how to beat Jeremiah. There's got to be some move.

Speaker 2 What would have been your move? There needs to be some film study. We got to talk about some of his tendencies.

Speaker 1 Well, also, what were the limitations on the Crows? Like, could they just bow and arrow him from far away?

Speaker 2 I think it was about taking away. It has to be man be man.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Not one of them. You get come at a tomahawk, jump out of a tree.
Not one time they caught him off guard. He's taking a dump.

Speaker 3 Well, they caught him off guard. The guy jumped out of the snow.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 But me off guard.

Speaker 1 What was your take, Craig, watching this?

Speaker 2 About the fighting? Like, just to the Crow?

Speaker 1 The Crows, like.

Speaker 1 They have Pete Carroll and the Vegas Raiders as their head coach.

Speaker 2 You know, they had a code and they lived by it. And you have to respect that.

Speaker 2 My picking is that I'm not sure I buy that Jeremiah Johnson would have followed the cavalry to go save those people. Like the whole pitch was, he was like, these are Christian people out there.

Speaker 2 But I feel like Jeremiah Johnson was a man who had given up on religion. He didn't like that Swan was religious.

Speaker 2 I don't think it's the God part. I think it's the...
the soldier's duty part. And maybe to Bill's point earlier about did he desert? Is there something inside of him that's like,

Speaker 2 I didn't, I didn't fulfill a mission I was given and I let maybe let some people down. Like, I felt like there was something that he felt like he had to do.

Speaker 1 Any other nitpicks? No.

Speaker 1 Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all blackcaster, untouchable. This is absolutely an untouchable.

Speaker 1 Prestige, would you watch an Amazon show, Dad, a Jeremiah Johnson in one season?

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 this is one and done.

Speaker 2 What about Jeremiah Johnson? He's much reacher, but not back to town opens up a hardware store

Speaker 1 the summer i turned pretty with jeremiah johnson he founds home depot yeah yeah that could work is this movie better with wayne jenkins danny treo mad dog russo doris burke buffalo bill sam jackson nell byron mayo tony romo chris collinsworth daniel plainview long legs or wilford brimley in the firm what do you have see y well number one it's obviously this is yours it's better with nell because the oh in the woods loses her family basically goes Nell.

Speaker 1 So just Nell is

Speaker 2 just doing that. I like the idea of Collinsworth being like, oh, Mike,

Speaker 2 this paints his shirt red guy. He gets his guys ready to play.
I mean,

Speaker 2 they keep coming in waves. You're going to have to talk these guys with a tomahawk if you don't want them to come after Jeremiah.
They're running stunts, Mike. Look,

Speaker 2 look,

Speaker 2 it's not every blitz is gonna work you know oh my jeremiah is just i just can't believe how good he is against these crows brian flores disguised this guy brian flores study the crow way

Speaker 1 i'm breaking out a new character for this fresh off uh the monday night jets dolphins game dan orlofsky

Speaker 2 i want to see him in this By the way, did Schraeger ever reach out about my Legend of Billie Gene imitation? Was that okay with him?

Speaker 1 I don't know if it was okay with him. He never reached out.

Speaker 2 It might not have been. I guess we'll find out.
I'll ask him.

Speaker 1 Uh, Dan Orlafsky.

Speaker 1 I want you to see how Jeremiah takes down the crows here. All right, they're playing too high safety, so Jeremiah has to go shotgun right away.
Pow, pow! Perfect mechanics right there.

Speaker 1 Then he uses his feet. Watch him use his leverage right here.
He knocks that third guy off the horse. No penalty either.
Perfect leverage. Exploits the seam, gets it done.

Speaker 1 Dan Orlavsky.

Speaker 2 I love it.

Speaker 2 Just one Oscar who gets it.

Speaker 1 Redford. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Probably unanswerable questions.

Speaker 1 We already did. Was Jeremiah a Mexican war deserter? I have two great ones, but did you have one, Dad? Probably an answerable question.

Speaker 3 A little bit.

Speaker 3 You know, Jeremiah

Speaker 3 became friendly and then seemed to be friends with the chief.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I mean, they were trading.

Speaker 3 They smoked a peace pipe.

Speaker 3 They let him live in their land.

Speaker 3 I'll never understand why just leading the party the way he did through the burial ground led his, quote, friend to have his wife and son murdered. It just seemed drastic.

Speaker 1 Big leap.

Speaker 2 It's the law of the land.

Speaker 2 A little over the top.

Speaker 1 You know what? Both parties were wrong. That's why they settled it at the end.
Sure, a couple of nice gestures. Did you you have one no i have two good ones

Speaker 1 do you want the amazing one or the good one as well what feels good then amazing okay

Speaker 1 build up to it was bear claw gay

Speaker 2 that's the good one

Speaker 2 that's the good one

Speaker 1 has that whole speech about

Speaker 1 he had a squaw right once i never could find no tracks on a woman's heart i packed me a squaw for 10 years meanest bitch that ever bailed for beads don't get me wrong i love the woman's i surely do why are you why are you protesting i'm just sitting here listening to your dumb story i swear a woman's breast is the hardest rock that the almighty ever made on this earth and i could find no sign on it that sounds like the 40 year old virgin right there

Speaker 2 virgin or gay for bear claw i don't know it's one or the other uh

Speaker 1 is jeremiah dead for the last 20 minutes of this movie uh

Speaker 1 is it just a fever dream does he get killed when he gets stabbed in the back no no, no.

Speaker 2 Hold on.

Speaker 1 He's dead. And then everything that happens after

Speaker 2 too perfect. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He kills all these people.

Speaker 1 He goes back to the old land. There's a new family in the house.
He makes up with the crows.

Speaker 1 And meanwhile, he's like Top Gun Maverick, dead the whole time.

Speaker 2 I like it. I think that definitely the filmmaking changes at that point when it starts doing like the dissolves into him killing people and the music playing.

Speaker 2 And it's almost like, is this really happening or is this the story people are?

Speaker 1 But it's the legend of Jeremiah Johnson, and really the legend is he tried to fight seven crows at once and died.

Speaker 3 The supposed fable or true story about

Speaker 3 John Johnson, John liver reading Johnson, is that after he killed

Speaker 3 300 crow or however many,

Speaker 3 he made peace again with the crows and lived and traded among them.

Speaker 2 I got it. It'd be hard to get over that.
Yeah, it'd be hard to get over that. It'd be hard to sit down at the trading table with that guy.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You killed my cousin and my nephew.

Speaker 1 So bearclaw, virgin or gay, you're going virgin.

Speaker 2 Just from the description of breasts, yes. Okay.
Yeah, it's a lot like that. They feel like bags of sand.

Speaker 1 He's like, I was dating this one squaw in the Niagara Falls area.

Speaker 2 You wouldn't know her. You never met her.

Speaker 1 What piece of memorability would you want or not want from this movie? Dad, very important question for you.

Speaker 3 I think the 50 caliber hawker.

Speaker 1 I had that as well. That's just, I mean, imagine if that was like right there, right now.
It's like the gun.

Speaker 2 I liked his red coat that he wears when it's on the warmer side of

Speaker 2 these. But you'd have to really delouse that, get the smell out.

Speaker 3 My second choice was. the beautiful coat that Swan made for me.

Speaker 2 Oh, the barricade. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 Dad was a little sweet on Swan.

Speaker 2 Jesus. I did like her.
her.

Speaker 1 Coach Finnstock, aware, best life lesson is obviously don't pass through a crowbar. Yeah, just don't.

Speaker 2 I think that's a good. Just don't leave your family alone on the range.

Speaker 1 There is a good quote, though.

Speaker 2 Also, if you're Murph, don't go on a Capping Trip.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we might not have food. I decided that when I depart from this life, I'd like to leave something at least to be remembered on some man's lodge pole.

Speaker 2 Good high school year, but quote.

Speaker 1 Double feature choice. What do you have, Dad? You're watching Jeremiah Johnson and then something else.
What's something else?

Speaker 3 I wanted to watch three movies in a row.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 Jeremiah Johnson, Outlord Josie Ruba-Wells. Yeah.
And the searchers.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 By the way, he's probably done that.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's in play that that sequence happened.

Speaker 2 I would probably go with,

Speaker 2 I guess I would go with the Revenant because it's an interesting modern retelling of the same kind of story.

Speaker 1 I was thinking Last of the Mohicans or The Revenant. Yeah.
One of those two. But Revenant, I think

Speaker 1 it's on the list for rewatchables. It's kind of growing on me.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Who won the movie, Robert Redford?

Speaker 3 For me, definitely. I'm going to say

Speaker 2 you think Redford's not going to win. I think I voted Newman for the Sting, but do you think Redford's not going to win every movie in Redford month?

Speaker 1 We'll find out.

Speaker 1 Still some Redford months left.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 1 This is the part of the podcast when Craig the producer, tells us what he thinks of the movie. What did you think, Craig?

Speaker 2 Fascinating experiment. This movie is,

Speaker 2 as I was watching it, I was like, this is the most alien to anything that is going on today in Hollywood.

Speaker 2 It is fascinating that, like, this is the furthest thing from what would be commercially successful now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, look, is it an exercise in attention span a little bit? Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's one of the most gorgeous movies I've ever seen. I think it is worth it.

Speaker 2 It is a worthwhile watch just for the visuals, to be honest. And like, I mean this in a complimentary way, but it's almost like a screensaver of a movie

Speaker 2 where it's just kind of on and you can tune in and out and just the landscapes and the cinematography alone is gorgeous. I also just love that in 1840s, people were still like, man, I got to unplug.

Speaker 2 I got to get off the net. Yeah.

Speaker 2 The fact that he's like, I got to get out.

Speaker 2 In 1840s, this is too much. The city, the war, I got to unplug.

Speaker 2 I also thought this movie was kind of underratedly funny. Redford has some pretty good moments with Swan and with the family, with the kid.
It's a funny film when you're really focusing on it.

Speaker 1 So a thumbs up. It kept your attention.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it would be the hardest sell. You seconded somebody a little bit during this, though.

Speaker 2 There were moments where you have to really, I mean, I tried, right?

Speaker 2 I'm like, all right, I'm going to focus and watch this, but I think this would be the hardest sell to, you know, somebody in their 20s or 30s now,

Speaker 2 which I don't think is saying anything crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's It's hurt my dad's feelings.

Speaker 2 Have your kids ever seen this?

Speaker 1 God, no. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like, don't you think this would be a really tough movie to tell Ben to sit down for two hours and pay attention to?

Speaker 1 Well, that's every movie, but yeah, especially this.

Speaker 2 He also would have gotten up at the intermission, like, all right, that was cool.

Speaker 1 Text dad.

Speaker 2 I'm glad him and woman and boy made it.

Speaker 2 The intermission also came with like 30 minutes left. I found that odd.

Speaker 1 That was very strange.

Speaker 2 Why wasn't it in the middle? I do think it's a very, very good time to be like, you're not going to want to get up for the last 30 minutes of this. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But yeah, I'm changing my double feature answer. I think it's Castaway.
Okay. I think I'll go Jeremiah Johnson Castaway for solo.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's like five hours of just hanging out with the movie. All right, Dad.

Speaker 3 You know, I was thinking kind of what he just said. I'm not sure Hollywood would make this movie today.

Speaker 1 No way. No.

Speaker 1 They would have

Speaker 1 the Crow feud would be two-thirds of the movie.

Speaker 2 It would have to. I mean, it was the closest thing would be the Revenant.
It was very much an action movie, and they sold the revenue like Leo fights a bear. Yep.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 This is like Robert Redford rides around. This movie's about solitude for the first hour.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. There's no question the last half hour of the movie would be an actual hour.

Speaker 2 But I think in 1972, people were like, hell yeah, brother. I got to get out of this fucking city.
I got to unplug. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Any last words, Dad?

Speaker 3 I enjoyed being part of this because obviously it's one of my favorite movies, but it's a little bit of food for thought.

Speaker 3 The Vietnam thing, I hadn't really thought about it in years, but I think you're right on Target.

Speaker 3 And that might have led to why some people wanted to watch it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 We don't have that right now. You know, we have other stuff going on, but I just can't see this film being made today, which is a shame.
And maybe that's why I re-watch it when it comes on. Dr.

Speaker 2 Bill, what would be, you've done Shawshank and Jeremiah Johnson. Is there any other white whale out there that you still want to do for rewatchables?

Speaker 3 Well, one of my top have you done Josie Whales?

Speaker 1 No. No, maybe that'll be the next one.
That's one of my that's his other favorite movie. Yeah.
Those are the three your three favorite movies, Josie Whales, Jeremiah Johnson, and Shawshank.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Probably the natural number four.

Speaker 3 Yeah, probably.

Speaker 3 And maybe Hoosier's number five.

Speaker 2 We have to re-Hoosh one of these.

Speaker 1 My dad wanted me to be a baseball player. We were the best damn one I ever saw.

Speaker 2 Best damn hitter I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 Suit up.

Speaker 1 Dad, pleasure as always. Go, Red Sox.

Speaker 2 See you. Thanks, guys.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 Thanks to Craig and Gahau as well. And we'll be back with Redford Month next week.

Speaker 2 and cheese, McFriddles, pie tuntojocomun meal, and a horra.

Speaker 2 Oof, nava comodarte un gustaso por tam poco. The extra value meals is

Speaker 2 regrettable.

Speaker 4 Gana por la mañana con el extra-value meal, sausage, mc, muffin with egg, hash browns, and a cafe.

Speaker 4 Poros estolaries. Ba, ba, ba, ba.
Fresh and participation can be. The presentes of the promotion can be the comedy.