‘Snake Eyes’ With Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Speaker 1 De Palma. Yeah.
This is our fifth Brian De Palma movie. It's called Snake Eyes.
It belongs to another era, an era that I love very much. And it's next.
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Speaker 1 Snake Eyes, 1998. It's under 100 minutes.
It's in Atlantic City. It's Nick Cage.
It's Brian DePalma. They say the title in the movie multiple times.
There's a fixed boxing match.

Speaker 1 There's an assassination. There's a cover-up.
There's a dirty cop. Sean, they just don't make them like this anymore.

Speaker 2 No, man. You know, I was thinking about this, re-watching it last night.

Speaker 2 There's a certain kind of movie that's, that I like to call the water slide movie, where once you sit down, like you can't stop, right? You just go down.

Speaker 2 It doesn't mean that the end of the ride is going to be the best part. And this is a situation where the end of the ride may not be the best part.

Speaker 2 It this may not be the best fall but the slide down in this movie is so fun so i'm excited about this one the palma a lot of craft and care yeah nick cage at a great point in his career uh i threw this movie at you and wasn't surprised that you were excited about it loved it saw it in theaters it's back-to-back years of going into a movie thinking that i knew what the movie was going to be and then

Speaker 2 In the first act, going, wait a minute, this is different than what I thought it was going to be. In 97, it was Eve's Bayou.
Okay.

Speaker 2 which I thought was gonna be, which I thought was gonna be a straight horror movie. Yeah, it ended up being this American, this great American southern drama.

Speaker 2 And then, when I went into this one, Face Off was like a couple years before this, so I think I expected more of a bombastic action film, yeah, than this kind of scene-by-scene, like totally kinetic, driving, spycraft, espionage type of deal.

Speaker 2 But I totally was engrossed by it.

Speaker 1 We'll talk about the palm in a second, Nick cage

Speaker 1 i'll start here um i'm trying to think is there a better actor to play a crooked cop

Speaker 1 who has to make a choice whether he wants to do the right thing or not that we've ever had in the history of american cinema i don't know what it is about i have some nominees i mean denzel's done this a couple times harvey keitel ray liada yeah um

Speaker 1 Idris Elba, I think, has that kind of vibe to it, but it's, it's, I don't know what it is about an actor matching it with this. Like, I don't, I wouldn't buy McConaughey as a dirty cup, right?

Speaker 1 No, Bruce Willis, I would still feel like he was Bruce Willis. There's got to be some sort of scumbag, sleaziness, sleazy, but I'm still rooting for you.

Speaker 1 And it's a really hard tightrope, and I can't explain it.

Speaker 2 It's really unusual, though, that that is the energy that he gives when you look at his background and the kind of roles that he took early in his career. and just the way that he is as a person.

Speaker 2 If you ever see him talk in real life, he's an artist. You know, he talks like an artist.
He's from a,

Speaker 2 very established, famous filmmaking family. And yet he does seem like a sleazeball.

Speaker 1 He's got like the chest hair going all the way up to his neck.

Speaker 2 Hairline.

Speaker 1 Seating hairline. He's just kind of.

Speaker 2 I think that

Speaker 2 part of what makes Nick Cage Nick Cage is

Speaker 2 exactly what you're talking about. It is a rejection of I am from a filmmaking dynasty.
I don't want my last name, Coppola, to influence the way you think I should be doing what I am.

Speaker 2 I don't want to be the Francis Ford Coppola of acting.

Speaker 2 I want to be this almost force of nature on screen that goes from playing like one of the hardest to watch movies I've ever watched and loved, which was Leaving Las Vegas, to then Castro Troy, to this, Raising Arizona, which is the first time.

Speaker 2 All of these off-built, off-kilter things, almost like a rejection of what you would think a Coppola would be doing as an actor. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I like that you've flipped him, made him a coppola.

Speaker 2 He is a coppola.

Speaker 1 He's Nick Cage.

Speaker 2 He has changed his name. He did, but he's when I, it's funny, when I first learned that, I learned that actually on Saturday Night Live.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I learned that he, because there's this skit that they do where, where they're talking about it, it goes like, oh, if we're talking about good bodies, why don't you mention Sophia Coppola or something like that?

Speaker 2 And he goes, that's my cousin. And I went, what? It's his cousin.
That's why that's why I kind of found it out. But he's in his career.

Speaker 2 That's something that, for whatever reason, he definitely did not want to be. I think it's colored the way that he's taking roles and how he's acting and other things.
It's weird, though.

Speaker 2 I mean, he appears really early on in a Francis Four Coppola movie, right? He's in Peggy Sue Got Married. He's in Valley Girl.
He's in these movies in the 80s.

Speaker 2 He's in Raising Arizona where he's got this more like comic goofball persona. Moonstruck is kind of an oddball.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he finds a way to pivot into this like really pained, deep, sincere artist in the mid-90s. And then pivots out of that into these kinds of parts.

Speaker 2 These like action star parts with guys who are a little greasy, a little untrustworthy. You're rooting for them, but they've done bad things in their life.
You know, Conair is like this.

Speaker 2 Face off is like this. It's just a matchstick man.
Yeah, matchstick man. Yeah, he's just, he's a really weird screen persona.
He's kind of transformed many times.

Speaker 1 He wins the Oscar for leaving Las Vegas. Before that, he was kind of the, he was a draft pick for, hey, who could win an Oscar someday? He would have been the guy that was mentioned.

Speaker 1 And he rips the movies he rips off after that. It was inexplicable as it was happening.
And there, I had him when I did the Action Hero Championship belt.

Speaker 1 I think he actually had the belt because he's in The Rock and Face Off and Conair. The City of Angels, which not an action movie, then Snake Eyes and 8mm.

Speaker 1 Like five of his six, his next six movies are just like these action movies or action thrillers or or all movies I like. By the way, we've done The Rock, Face Off, Connor.

Speaker 1 We've done five of those six unrewatched movies.

Speaker 1 But as it was happening, we're like, you're a serious actor. You just want an Oscar.

Speaker 2 What are you doing? But also think about those characters, Tashawn's point. Yeah.
Those are not characters that really fit into the archetypes of action movie stuff.

Speaker 1 It was like the 2.0 version.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's like in The Rock, he, yeah, sure, he is the driving force of this big action movie, but he's a scientist. He's a scientist, inkhead, nerd type of guy.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then in face-off, he goes from being this

Speaker 2 magnificent evil at the beginning to playing the version of Tom, of John Travolta's, because it's Castro Troy. What's John Travolta's name in it? I can't remember the other name.
Yeah, anyway.

Speaker 2 And he's like, got to show all of this sensitivity and all of this stuff. He always flipped it.
And Conair,

Speaker 1 I remember seeing him. Conair is a real action movie.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah,

Speaker 2 that's it. He's he's ripped.
Even that, though, he's big and he's got the hair. And it was kind of like that was a way that you hadn't really seen him before.

Speaker 1 Wrongfully imprisoned.

Speaker 2 Wrongfully imprisoned. Killed a guy

Speaker 1 defending his wife in a rainstorm. Yeah.
And shouldn't have killed him because he...

Speaker 2 He's an Army Ranger.

Speaker 1 He had these skills that he shouldn't have used on another human.

Speaker 2 I've seen the film. Had to go to jail.
You saw a movie. Had to go to jail.
No, it's just like a circumstance that never happens in real life.

Speaker 1 But in these action movies where they have to figure out how to get a guy in jail, it's never like, yeah, he had this 15-year-old girl in his neighborhood.

Speaker 2 It's never like gross.

Speaker 1 It's always like, you know, he had these skills and he had to defend his wife. And the guy, he didn't know the guy was going to die.

Speaker 2 And even, even that scene in Conair, isn't there one part where he's just looking up going,

Speaker 2 like he's so far out of it. They go so far to make you understand that he's not a bad guy.
He's just good at playing guys with baggage, with dark pasts, with this like unresolved problem.

Speaker 2 You know, Moonstruck is like that too. Raising Arizona is like that too.
His best movies are always guys where you're like, what the hell happened to this guy? Yeah. Why is he like this?

Speaker 2 This movie is kind of like that too. It's just like, why is this guy such a scumbag? Why is he such an operator?

Speaker 2 And don't you just get the feeling that almost more than any other actor, he just likes having fun on screen? Definitely. This movie is a good example.
He just likes

Speaker 2 to

Speaker 1 love it. When do you think the wheels kind of started to come off with him as a best actor type of guy? Was it this movie or Face Off? Because these face off, he's dialing it up.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And because I always thought with Pacino, when he did Son of a Woman, he just kind of morphed into the Son of a Woman guy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And with Nick Cage, I feel like Face Off, he never shed Face Off in his brain and just felt he's nuts in this movie, which is why I like it.

Speaker 2 But if you watch Vampire's Kiss, which he made before this, that's one of the craziest movie performances of all time where you can feel him just being like, screw it.

Speaker 2 I'm taking this movie over and I'm doing exactly what I want. And it doesn't matter if any other actor is doing this.
And he does tone it down in movies after that, like Red Rock West, right?

Speaker 2 He's really like low-key and cool. But he, even in the early days, was just like, screw it.
This movie, safety off, I'm doing whatever I want.

Speaker 1 Safety off's a good way to put it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And that's a good, that's a good list.
The safety off list.

Speaker 1 That's Pacino and Devil's Advocate. He's like, safety off.

Speaker 2 But he meets.

Speaker 2 He meets his absolute match in this movie because De Palma is one of the great safety off

Speaker 2 encouraging performers, filmmakers, because he did this twice with Pacino. Scarface and Carlito's Way are amazing safety-off performances.
So they're like, they're so good together.

Speaker 2 Something it's funny about Nick Cage, it is a little unfair the way we look at how his career played out because he's been not just safety off, he's been bazooka safety off for like the last 10 years.

Speaker 2 But even after this, Matchstick Man, The Weatherman, all of these movies, there are some real understated performances that people really don't give him credit for.

Speaker 2 Even like National Treasure, of all the movies that he's played where he's kind of played them straight up and down, National Treasure might be one of those things.

Speaker 2 So it really, for a long time, for a long time, even after this, there was a great variety in the roles. And some of the roles were a little bit more understated.

Speaker 1 He was a high-volume shooter. His next five after 8mm were Bringing Out the Dead, Gone in 60 Seconds, The Family Man, and Captain Crowlli's Mandolin, along with 8 Millimeter.

Speaker 1 I remember Captain Crowley's Mandolin. That's when it was kind of ending for Nick Hage, where he was becoming a little bit of a punchline.
It is interesting. It's like a different Snake Eyes.

Speaker 1 It's not Apex Mountain for him. It's a different,

Speaker 1 it's almost like last title or Lat, it's almost like the 1998 Bulls with MJ for the Nick Hagel.

Speaker 2 Last dance. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like, it's almost like last dance for him. where you go to Snake Eyes because it's him and De Palma.
I still have faith. Everybody's going to make the right decisions.

Speaker 1 And then it probably ends with 8 Millimeter, a movie that I love very much.

Speaker 2 The film is real.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 that movie with that subject matter, he is the only guy, one of the only guys to me, and maybe you guys can think of somebody else on his level of star. That would have went on that journey.

Speaker 1 That would have been like, yeah, showdown with me and Machine in a cemetery.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he was, he was fearless and he was really into kinky, transaggressive stuff. He's still really good, though.
He's had like a little mini renaissance in the last five years. For sure.

Speaker 2 He was in pig, he was in Dream Scenario a couple years ago. Like, he's not a huge box office star anymore, but he's still a really interesting actor.
And like,

Speaker 2 long legs. Yeah, every third or fourth movie.
Long legs.

Speaker 2 You like that? He, and he's still trying, he's still trying stuff, you know. Like, even if you don't like long legs, he's going for it in that movie.
He's doing something totally new.

Speaker 2 There's all kinds of stuff surrounding him about like, you know, stuff that he's done off-screen and stuff that he's bought. And it's fucking crazy.
I mean, he's like a lunatic.

Speaker 2 He is legitimately, to me, one of the freest artists of my generation.

Speaker 2 As far as actors, there are other guys out there, but Nick Cage

Speaker 2 is totally free. He makes movies, like the movie that he made.

Speaker 1 Free?

Speaker 2 You mean bachers? No, I mean, free.

Speaker 2 He's not afraid to be judged. He's not afraid to be judged.
Like, he puts the movie out there. The premise of the movie could be crazy.
So he's like Craig. Whatever.
Like Craig.

Speaker 2 You know, he did make a film called Bangkok Dangerous. And we're, of course, here with Bangkok Craig.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's right. I forgot about Bangkok Craig.
Yeah. Hey,

Speaker 2 comes out once in a while. Even the whole

Speaker 2 Bangkok Dangerous era, that movie and then knowing. Knowing, yeah.
That's a movie that on paper should have been amazing. And then you watch it and you're like, God damn it.

Speaker 2 What the hell happened here? So it's not a movie that is great, but it is a movie. that is better than you remembering.
Yeah. Yeah.
And he's just, he has a thing.

Speaker 2 Before we started recording, we were talking about movie stars. He's got a thing where he can just hold a movie on his shoulders.

Speaker 2 No matter how good or how bad the movie is, if it's an hour and 10 minutes or two, you know,

Speaker 2 an hour and 40 minutes, like you can hang with him the whole time. And that is rarer than we realize.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Remember Ghost Rider?

Speaker 2 Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was when the wheels came off for him, but I still went, I saw that in the theater because I was like, ah, this movie looks nuts and Nick Cage is in it.

Speaker 2 Ghost Rider, if it was released in 2017 in the Marvel Machine back then, would have been cool. It would be fantastic because you might have gotten a different take on it.

Speaker 2 There's also a Ghost Rider sequel that is like

Speaker 1 almost unwatchable.

Speaker 2 Spirit of Vengeance.

Speaker 2 Spirit of Vengeance. Yeah.
Igress Elbis in that one. It's very, very hard to watch.
Tough one. But he's also like a huge comic nerd.
Him, he's into that stuff. That's a cool character.

Speaker 2 If you're that type of star, maybe Johnny Blaze is not the comic book character that you choose to play. But that's the one that he wanted to.

Speaker 1 The Palma.

Speaker 1 We've done, this is number five. There's a few things left on the bone.

Speaker 2 What do you, what, what do you really

Speaker 2 have?

Speaker 1 I mean, Scarface, we haven't done yet, Carlito's Way, we haven't done yet,

Speaker 1 um, and there's one other dress to kill, dress to kill, we haven't done yet, yeah.

Speaker 2 Those that's, I think that's the big three that are left.

Speaker 1 So I found a 1998, we haven't done Carrie.

Speaker 2 Oh, we haven't done Carrie. Wow.

Speaker 1 I found a 1998 premiere magazine where they interviewed him about snake eyes, and it was a QA.

Speaker 1 And the question was: Your leading men often seem ineffectual, dwarfed by insurmountable obstacles to palm was like yeah

Speaker 1 here's his answer the establishment kind of overwhelms the protagonists in my movies and it's like the tar baby it's very difficult to beat you keep socking it but you just keep on getting another limb sucked in jesus to palma the fucking weirdo

Speaker 2 i love this guy he is the best he's like just a maniac I

Speaker 2 think of all the directors that are out there, the like the, obviously he's a really really important director for what is new cinema. Yeah.

Speaker 2 His movies are the ones that I feel the closest to. He's a freak like you.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm glad you said that. He's a freak.

Speaker 2 His movies are the ones I feel closest to.

Speaker 1 It's almost like one of the, I was going to have this in What's Age the Worst. One of the most disappointing things about this movie is he kind of suppresses his freak.

Speaker 2 A little bit.

Speaker 1 When we're going over the hotel rooms,

Speaker 1 1970s, early 80s De Palma would have had some crazy fuck scene in one of the rooms. But aren't we? This was like mid-50s De Palma.
Like, I don't need to do that.

Speaker 2 At this point, though, aren't we at the point where De Palma is most flirting with mainstream cinema?

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's coming out of Mission Impossible.

Speaker 2 He's on, I think, he's on the mountaintop. I mean, this is really the highest, the pinnacle of his commercial appeal as a filmmaker.
But you think that that might have like muted his

Speaker 2 desire to show some of that stuff. With it, right? Like, there's there, there are ladies in the movie that their sexuality plays a big part in the film.

Speaker 2 But there's a little bit of holding back to me of that stuff that some of the movies that he made in the past, obviously like Scarface is just like, just

Speaker 2 like all of that stuff. He did body double.
I mean, you know,

Speaker 2 but in this, you can feel those urges being rolled back a little bit. For the sake of.
I want you to see the story and how the story shakes out. I feel like we're doing something really smart.

Speaker 2 All the movies are about, they're not about the women and they're not even about having sex with the women. They're about men watching the women.

Speaker 2 That's what all the movies, they're all about voyeurism. So the movie is still like that.

Speaker 2 It's just that like, I guess the women don't take their tops off in this movie, but for the most part, it's just

Speaker 1 the same though if it should be a PG-13 or an R. And I think it ended up, they said fuck it and went for R.

Speaker 2 Speaking of that, when we're doing Femme Fatale. That, well, I would argue that's his last great movie.
I know. Which one? Femme Fatale.
That's a couple years later. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. He saw something in Rebecca.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Look, you always know when it says film. I think that's the, it's like we always, Sean and I would always talk about

Speaker 1 back when, uh, back when our fingers used to work, when we'd see other writers and you could cover their byline and knew who the writer was.

Speaker 1 That's the best feeling. I know who that is.
Right. De Palma, like, you know.

Speaker 2 I know. How the camera's moving.

Speaker 2 As soon as the camera starts moving and you see what it's once, what it's looking at, then you can tell.

Speaker 1 He's always going to take one big long shot swing at some point. Just to kill he does it.

Speaker 2 This one might be the granddaddy. Which is why I always thought, I mean, looking back on it,

Speaker 2 he was the perfect director to get the Mission Impossible franchise started.

Speaker 1 Well, he agrees because it allowed him to do movies like Snake Eyes because it did well and he made money from it.

Speaker 2 It's still shocking to me, though, how that worked.

Speaker 2 How so? Because he never made anything even close to that scale of a movie. Scarface is a big movie, but it's only got like seven characters in it.

Speaker 2 And him being able to pull off like the tunnel tunnel scene at the end of that movie is stunning. Oh, just the sip.
Just the scope of that movie is so big, but it's so, I still love the original.

Speaker 2 It's so good. And it's, it's the hideous one of all of them.

Speaker 2 Some people would argue that the movies became more and more ridiculous from a plot standpoint.

Speaker 1 What's your favorite Dabama?

Speaker 2 Ever? Yeah. Carlito's Way.

Speaker 1 What's yours, Sean?

Speaker 2 It's probably Blowout. I mean, we talked about it on the Blowout pod, which I just think is like a perfect movie.

Speaker 1 But that whole structure, I respect blowout the most, but I enjoy Scarface the most. I love Scarface.
Scarface, we haven't even done it on rewatchables because it's like I don't want to waste it yet.

Speaker 2 I know all those movies are great. Carlito's Way is great.
There's like a 15-year period where he is unmatched and able

Speaker 2 being able to make a sequence in a movie. He's his sequences are so cool.

Speaker 1 You know why I can't have a baby with her, Manny?

Speaker 2 Her womb is so polluted.

Speaker 2 Keep going.

Speaker 2 But But like Scarface.

Speaker 2 So the reason why I like Carlito's Way, I can't say that I like Carlito's Way more than Scarface, but the reason why I'm more connected to Carlito's Way is because Carlito's Way feels like

Speaker 2 Al Pacino and the Palma and Sean Penn together doing an actual thing. Scarface is legitimately.
Take the reins off somebody, let them fucking go until they can't go anymore.

Speaker 2 It is like something to behold and while carlito's way there's actually really really deep themes of connection and betrayal like recidivism there's bad hair yeah this i just i feel real me being an i love pen's wig in this movie in that movie it's so good but i but dave yeah i love i love that i love that character like craig when we do carlito's way

Speaker 1 Between Sean Chris and Van, if it's a three-person pod, we should have some sort of reality show competition

Speaker 1 where two people can make it and the third one just gets voted off somehow.

Speaker 2 The running man, but

Speaker 2 like

Speaker 1 bowling at Lucky Strike, just like that.

Speaker 2 No, you don't have a bowl off to get on the bowl off Carlito's way off. To see who gets the two spots.
There's an incredible Carlito's away homage in this movie. Well, here's the other thing.

Speaker 1 The long shot, which I think is the signature from a rewatchable standpoint, it's so amazing how they do it. And he's never really said that it was 12.
It's 12 straight minutes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's never really admitted it was all 12 straight minutes. So then in this premier magazine thing, they ask him about it.

Speaker 1 And he says the movie starts on the boardwalk, blah, blah, blah. The shot establishes Nick Cage's character as he wanders through the arena and then blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 It's a steady cam shot that goes on for about 12 minutes. Then he says, one continuous shot can really only be the length of a 30 M, 35 mm magazine, a 400-foot load.

Speaker 1 In bonfire, that was one five-minute shot. We went as far as we could go.

Speaker 1 Of course, you could make it look longer like hitchcock's rope have somebody pass front of the camera keep going need artful staging and very good actors so i think he's saying it was five minutes and they figured out some sort of cheat code and you can i was watching again and you can see like i think it's four cuts you can see ultimately yeah he rounds the corner one time on the wall you can kind of tell down at the fight floor they do it once yes he definitely is cutting but

Speaker 2 the staging of the scenes even with the cuts is crazy because of the size of the of the it's it's a fucking boxing he's in a freaking arena doing this it's amazing goosebump goes down the escalator at one point and you're like how the fuck did they do all that camera going around that corner yeah that is just wild i i mean looking back on it when i watched this because i hadn't seen this in a while this is a technically really impressive movie yeah i agree one of his most impressive it's one of his least interesting thematically i would say it is very relevant right now which i'm sure we'll talk about but it unlike dress the kill or carlito's way it's not like a heady movie about the way that people really feel in the world.

Speaker 2 You know, it's, it's kind of trashy. It's like a trashy noir movie, but he's using it as this vehicle to do all this cool shit with the film.

Speaker 1 Nick Cage does say one interesting thing, though, at the end when he was like, basically, he's like, well, at least I get to be on TV or whatever.

Speaker 1 There's something about celebrity going on in the late 90s that I think De Palma was interested in, but I don't, he didn't really hit it hard enough.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the movie is. It's good and it's one that, you know, I really liked when it came out.

Speaker 1 It's not quite as smart as it probably wanted to be it needs like 10 more minutes weirdly sorry craig 108 minutes might have been able to nail it there's some sort of thing about instant celebrity and i and the most interesting part of the movie to me is the the fall after where it sets him up as the hero

Speaker 1 And then you're just like, hey, by the way, he was found with cocaine. And then all of a sudden he's just on the boardwalk and he had his mom and it was gone.

Speaker 2 But that, I think that's a reshoot, which we can talk about why. But I don't think any of that stuff is supposed to be there in the first place.

Speaker 2 And you could have made the case that if they had thought about it more, that they could have made it more the spark about leaning into like what you want out of celebrity and life, which is like a part of that character.

Speaker 2 There's other ideas in it that are kind of interesting about conspiracy thrillers, but it's more like the classic De Palma stuff of being about other movies.

Speaker 2 Like this is very much, you mentioned Rope in that quote. He's constantly being compared to Hitchcock, who's his great inspiration.

Speaker 2 And he's always like looking for a way to take a framework that Hitchcock has and then elevate it.

Speaker 2 So he has some movies, you know, like obsession from the 70s with cliff robertson is kind of like this find raising kane is kind of like this yeah where they're like more exercises than they are great movies where he's like let me see if i could do this

Speaker 2 and they're still crazily entertaining but you don't walk away from them with the same feeling that you do as like dress the kill or blowout yeah the movie here is like surprisingly straightforward Yeah, like there, the things happen, right?

Speaker 2 You find out that Gary Sinise is your bad guy. There's no levels to that.
That just continues to play itself out. It's revealed and then goes.

Speaker 1 It's revealed and then it goes.

Speaker 2 And there's not a lot of, oh my God, I did not see that coming in the movie at all. That's why the technician part of the movie

Speaker 2 is so important because you need that to keep the kinetic energy of the film going. It's kind of like.

Speaker 2 what's going to happen next from your eyes and not what's going to happen next from your brain.

Speaker 2 So it's like what the next thing you're going to see rather than the next thing that's going to happen plot wise. Real quick, where are you on Bonfire of the Vanities?

Speaker 2 I don't think it really works very well. Yeah,

Speaker 2 I do think that sequence that he's talking about is interesting, the long, that long tracking study cam shot that they do, but it's like totally gratuitous.

Speaker 2 And you can, he's just a mismatch with the material.

Speaker 2 Like, I think if you had a different filmmaker make that movie,

Speaker 2 even if you had Scorsese make that movie, it would be a little bit more interesting, but I don't, I never get the impression he's like interested in that world.

Speaker 1 That's why there's been books and podcasts and everything else done about that movie because it's was such a great piece of ip and then every choice that made every actor they cast was wrong he was the wrong director yeah it's pretty tough every like five years i forget that it's bad and i'm like oh you know what i'll give this a world you're gonna defend it here we go i always liked it oh my god i'm sorry my bad guys

Speaker 2 Hanks is Hanks is bad in it. It's weird.
He's also miscast. Yeah.
He's just not good in it.

Speaker 2 I always liked it i think i was at a time in my life you just would have you were destined to like it yeah where it was like willis hank melanie griffith like all in a movie together being

Speaker 2 like that entire but you remember also i liked you know at that time anything set in new york and that whole who's that girl madonna love the movie so like i just i've always liked it and i've tried to go back and watch it and find reasons to like not like the movie but i always go oh man i like this well that came out in 90.

Speaker 1 after that it did Raising Kane, Carlito's Way, Mission Impossible, Snake Eyes.

Speaker 1 It's kind of over after that. Like he didn't really have the commercial movie after that.

Speaker 1 That's kind of the end of the run, which is interesting because it's also the end of some sort of, it's some sort of invisible line with the end of the Nick Cage run, even though we didn't know it yet.

Speaker 2 He says something. He did, I read a couple of interviews with him around this time.
I wanted to read this to you guys. Something he said right around the release of this movie.

Speaker 2 He said, I think that something new is coming. I really think that the conventional movie making world is over and the greatest work is behind us.
I really do.

Speaker 2 The industry sort of peaked in the 40s, 50s, and 60s mainly because of the turmoil, wars, all that stuff, European influx into Hollywood. That was the beginning of movies, and it's over.

Speaker 2 It's never going to be again. I think the next thing that's going to happen is going to happen on the internet with interactive media.

Speaker 2 Now you can have all this video technology, your own little video camera, and edit stuff at home. You can make movies like novels now.
You really can. You can make them inexpensively.

Speaker 2 with your friends and put them on the internet.

Speaker 1 Wow. And he didn't even see the prestige TV coming.
He basically nailed 95% of it.

Speaker 2 Yes, that's 1998 when he said that. He was early, but he was definitely right.

Speaker 1 Also, his whole class, which we've talked about before, that there's been books written about with Spielberg and Lucas and Coppola, all of them are kind of hitting the end of some sort of road, right?

Speaker 1 Scorsese is about to transition into his 2000s, which were really interesting.

Speaker 2 He's about to take off and become kind of the winner of this coming moment, which is really interesting because De Palma, for a period of time, was kind of big dogged him a little bit.

Speaker 1 Lucas is transitioning into, I'm I'm just going to redo the IP I did before.

Speaker 2 A corporate god.

Speaker 1 Spielberg has his crazy like minority report. Like he's moving into like that post-Saving Private Orion world and De Palma kind of doesn't know where to go.

Speaker 2 He demands a lot of control on his movies too. And you can tell that he's not able to convince people to let him make the stuff he wants to make.

Speaker 2 I mean, he's only made four movies in the last 25 years.

Speaker 1 Some more stuff to talk about this movie. We're going to take a quick break.
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Speaker 1 A couple actor stuff to talk about with this. Evil Gary Sinees.
It's great stuff. So I was thinking, we were one Evil Sine movie away from Evil Sine Month.

Speaker 1 We could have done Reindeer Games, State Eyes, and Ransom. We already did Ransom.

Speaker 2 You want to re-ransom? I got to say, I love Ransom. We could have Evil Sans.

Speaker 2 Is Ransom the peak of Evil Sinise? He is. So I was going to ask you,

Speaker 1 what's the most evil sine? I think it's ransom.

Speaker 2 I think it's ransom. I used to drop the reindeer games in there, huh? Reindeer games is in there, but reindeer games is not as I like reindeer games, unfortunately.
I like it too.

Speaker 1 It's a guilty pleasure movie, but that was a DVD classic for me.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that was a DVD.

Speaker 2 We got to do Frankenheimer month, you know, 52 pickup. Oh, wow.
Get that going.

Speaker 1 A lot of Frankenheimer really happens. But like, what is it about Sinice, though, that you just make it like, oh man, this motherfucker.

Speaker 2 He's got that thing.

Speaker 2 Like, even at the end of Ransom, where the kid hears his voice and he starts peeing himself, like Gary has that thing, that intensity, that face where he can go from somebody, because he does this in, he does this in Ransom and also in this movie.

Speaker 2 He goes from a face that you're supposed to trust. And then as soon as the turn happens, he is legitimately a face that you can revile in one thing.

Speaker 1 And like, and Gumpy does the flip.

Speaker 1 He feels like he's evil. And then he's going to be a little bit more.
And then he flips it again.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 2 he's like, he can do either thing so effectively that it works in movies.

Speaker 2 Who is the modern-day Gary Sanders?

Speaker 2 I mean, these kinds of actors who are like, he was pretty much a star. You know, Academy Awards.

Speaker 1 Because he had the Apollo 13 piece, too. And Gump piece.

Speaker 2 Gumpy.

Speaker 2 Famous. Yeah.
I mean, I. That's a really interesting thing where he's got this incredible stage background.

Speaker 2 He transitions to Hollywood and he gets cast in big Hollywood movie after big Hollywood movie, whether he's the hero or the villain. And he's not

Speaker 2 a heartthrob. No.
He's not always the villain, right? He's not like JT Walsh or something. Like, he is.

Speaker 1 No, he feels like he's a little more leading man-ish.

Speaker 2 But he's like that really weird blend between character actor and leading man, right? Where, like, he could carry a movie. It's probably not ideal if he's carrying your movie.

Speaker 2 But if he's in the number two spot, like in a movie like this, he's got his. He's probably going to be good.
Yeah. It's like he is a super duper talented like backup quarterback.
Right. Right.

Speaker 2 To where. The Jeff Hostettler of movies.
Yeah. To where you kind of don't know like what to do with him, but he can definitely be a crazy addition to your team if, in fact, he has to carry the team.

Speaker 1 What's your Sine's relationship, Craig?

Speaker 2 Dump and Apollo.

Speaker 1 Did you see that? See, he's a good guy in those movies.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but just a really awesome, steady... It's like side character who, yeah, it's good in everything.

Speaker 1 I like Gary Sinees. Yeah, I don't know who he is, though.

Speaker 2 Who's like that guy who can then be the bad guy and stuff like but you know what can i tell you something the american character actor of that ilk like you've talked a lot about i think it's an interesting um observation about sort of the next great italian american actor that can like you know what you're talking about leoto or you know the rest of these guys or robot and all of these but like just the stalwart american character actor like who are those guys now They're on TV.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I mean, it's not something movies are even sold on anymore. There are plenty of them.
I'm sure they're playing. Sine is an unusual one.

Speaker 2 So I was just thinking of one of my favorite Sineesse parts is he's Stu Redman in the stand adaptation, which was on TV in the 90s. And he's, you know.
I always love that.

Speaker 2 That's kind of my bonfire of the vanities where I saw it in an age where I was like, this is my favorite thing of all time. If you watch it now, it's a little harder to sit through.

Speaker 2 But he's so good at Stu in that series. Yeah.
But that movie is still terrifying to me. Yeah.
I don't know if who's the guy that plays Randall Flag in that one? Jamie Sheridan.

Speaker 2 Another stage actor. Jamie Sheridan.
Like, that's a mini-series, but that's still like a haunting, terrifying, weird movie.

Speaker 1 Sinease is good because it's like, he's a stage actor. He didn't really want to get into Hollywood, but he really loves and he really takes it.

Speaker 1 And then like 10 years later, it's like CSI New York with Gary Sine.

Speaker 2 Didn't he do that show for like 10 years?

Speaker 1 There's semen on the bed.

Speaker 2 Get the blue lights.

Speaker 2 Well, money's good, right? Everybody likes money. That's the point everybody's like, yeah, fuck it.
CSN, New York,

Speaker 2 I'm real with you. If you look at him, William Peterson,

Speaker 2 like a lot of those guys ended up finding their homes on shows like that. They're trusted faces that let you know that a procedural or something like that is a serious piece of art.

Speaker 2 And who came up playing cops and detectives in movies and then they transitioned. Yeah.
And then they killed movies.

Speaker 1 Did you read the Peterson interview for the 40th anniversary of Toulouvin die in LA? Your guy Hill? Yeah, he hasn't acted in 15 years. And they asked him why.

Speaker 1 And he's like, because I've done everything. I don't need to do anything anymore.
I don't want to hang out with my kids and my grandkids. I live in Chicago.
I have a great life. That's nice.

Speaker 1 I played every part I've wanted to play.

Speaker 2 I respect it. Yeah, I love it.
I respect it, too. I was like, you do your thing, William Peterson.
I just. He gave us Manhunter.

Speaker 2 Manhunter, fantastic. Like, I just kept waiting for the role or the moment.
I guess J.K. Simmons is one of those actors that we were talking about.
He is. Yeah.
I kept waiting for the role.

Speaker 2 I kept waiting for the J.K. Simmons moment.

Speaker 1 Like the later in life.

Speaker 2 yeah, the

Speaker 2 big supporting part. The I'm in Whiplash.
Now you got it.

Speaker 1 So it wasn't fair with Mark Rahlbert for you.

Speaker 2 No, it wasn't. Who was it? I fuck with that movie, though.
It's pretty good. It's very hard.
I mean, people keep hearing me saying it's very hard to mention movies that I really don't fuck with.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, like 1991 to 1997, it's kind of like, yeah, they're all good. They really are.

Speaker 2 I don't go all the way to 99.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
I was watching the last hour. I was doing some work and I wanted to put on something.
So I was flipping cable and Fight Club was on, which we've already done.

Speaker 1 And I was watching the last hour of Fight Club kind of half-heartedly as I'm doing football stuff. And then I just started watching the last 15 minutes and then it ended with the Pixie song.

Speaker 2 And I was like, legitimately a brilliant movie, though.

Speaker 1 I was, and things are blowing up, and he's staring out the window. And Where is My Mind comes in? I was like, man, we used to fucking make great things in this country.

Speaker 2 We don't even have the nuts to make that one now. The movie interrogates too many things.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's a nuts movie.

Speaker 2 If they made it, it would probably be a little overwrought, a little too self-serious. That movie's winking at you a little bit in a way.
Very faithful to the book, too. I don't know, man.

Speaker 2 What Eddington won battle? These movies are pretty angry and pretty much about what's going on. Like, it happens.
It just doesn't necessarily happen in the same way. They are, but they're, and

Speaker 2 there's,

Speaker 2 there, there is a specific,

Speaker 2 there's a specific critique and question that Fight Club asks that just would turn so many people off now, it feels like.

Speaker 2 Like the whole, the, the whole conversation around masculinity, the fact that hurting people makes these guys feel, there would be a thousand really annoying think pieces. There were then.

Speaker 2 I mean, it was not, it didn't

Speaker 2 perception. Yeah.
Fair enough. Fair enough.
Yeah. Fair enough.
I guess I was part of one of those things.

Speaker 2 I was a very angry 17-year-old when it came out and I was like, this is clearly the greatest film ever made. You know, like this, there will never be another, a better movie than this.

Speaker 2 I've had like a weird relationship to it over the years, but maybe you could cite that movie as kind of like the end of an era in some ways. Like it is, it is 99.
It is kind of like closing the book.

Speaker 2 Y2K really did

Speaker 1 shift us from here to here. And it's hard to explain.

Speaker 2 Not literally, not the computer.

Speaker 1 It just felt everything felt slightly different after Y2K and I don't know why. And then 9-11 was the other big catalyst, but it just that late 90s just felt like something.

Speaker 2 When Snake Eyes came out, I was like, every movie will be cool forever. You know, like to go see a movie like this in theaters, you're like, yeah, of course, this was pretty good.

Speaker 2 And I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 Snake Eyes came out the same weekend as Halloween H2O and Saving Private Ryan came out the week before. And it was just like, that's kind of what we did back then.

Speaker 2 I was just so in the movies. Yeah.
I was in, I was at

Speaker 2 City Place. So I was just in the movie theater.
My man, Stefan worked there. Stefan would hook us up with the tickets.
Like, like I was, he was, Stefan was the man.

Speaker 2 But like, I was just so into movies. I was found myself there all the time at that point.
And I think that. It used to be that it was like you could just make a movie and cool was the barometer.

Speaker 2 it's just cool yep it's just it's just like you make a i was watching so i married an axe murderer yeah uh like all-time classic like a couple weeks ago i'm like would they make this movie now a movie where it's would they it's just a i mean there's a whole mtv type of ecosystem because you have the making of the movie type of deal mike myers is on i have a take about this would they make that would they make just a cool story now that didn't like so i married would they make that movie one thing i'm really surprised hasn't happened because we've talked about many times over the years, the SNL to movie pipeline on pods, how there has not been a streaming movie pipeline for SNL actors where you're like, oh,

Speaker 2 this person's kind of like Chloe Feynman's got, kind of got something, but maybe doesn't need her own TV show.

Speaker 2 But maybe let's give her a $20 million Netflix movie and see what happens. I mean, they kind of take this off.

Speaker 1 Please don't destroy it. And it was on Peacock.
Yes. Yes.

Speaker 2 It didn't bother. But that was supposed to be a theatrical movie that Chad Appetap produced.
And then like, it didn't turn out. out and then they put it on streaming.

Speaker 2 I'm talking about like, shouldn't there be like a little

Speaker 1 have a thing where he's like

Speaker 2 right now he's a perfect example. I'm like, that guy's just funny.
You could tell he's funny. He could carry something, make it low stakes.

Speaker 2 Simon Marianax Murder isn't the greatest movie of all time, but it was like, it was a road tester.

Speaker 1 But this is the problem with comedies now and why horror movies have.

Speaker 1 have just keep ascending and they just have not figured out comedy at all the way that we had them in the 90s because now it's you just put them on netflix or amazon or whatever

Speaker 2 no money Let these young guys take some.

Speaker 1 They don't want to take the at-bats. I'm with you.

Speaker 2 I know we got to get back to Snake Eyes, but I will say about that particular movie. I know.
Wait, what are we talking about?

Speaker 2 I know we got to get to Snake, but I will say with that particular movie, if you look at the movie, right, and it's Mike Myers doing his thing, it's like almost like a pilot for

Speaker 2 Austin Powers. Yes.
Because he plays the dad. He's singing the...
He's going to cry himself tonight on this huge pillar. Yeah, the whole nine, right? Son, heat, heat, move.

Speaker 2 He's doing all of that stuff. And you're like.

Speaker 2 it's a virtual planetoid right and he's seeing the the raw stewart song it's hysterical right and it's almost like proof that that guy can play those characters in a movie that it works as proof of concept and it's kind of like they don't do that anymore you know why because they overthink everything we talked about this with dirty work they're just like norm mcdonald's we'll figure it out absolutely we don't need

Speaker 2 we don't need a full script yet perfect chris farley said he'd be able to have two days on the set we'll figure it out i think they spend too much time overthinking.

Speaker 1 What do you think it is, Craig? I mean, part of it is your generation's fault. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You guys killed comedy. Yeah.
Well, we're trying to bring it back.

Speaker 2 I think that SNL doesn't cast the same type of people anymore is also part of it. Like

Speaker 2 they're not, I don't think there's a lot of people who are trying, who are like character actors on SNL anymore. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like it is, it's rare that they bring somebody in who can do like 10 different characters. It's not really like what they do anymore.

Speaker 2 So I don't even think the pipeline is set up to work because it's completely different casting now. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Shane, Shane could have done it. I mean, Shane doing tires is basically like a 90-minute comedy in 1993.

Speaker 2 That's it. That actually replaced his movie, his dirty work.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Back to this.

Speaker 2 Incredible pivot.

Speaker 1 We never talked about Carla.

Speaker 2 Who's going to go first? Goddamn. This is a real Venn diagram for Bill Van Sean.
Yes.

Speaker 2 This is one of the real, like, you know, we've talked about this. We got to be professional.
We met on a cold, dark night. yeah this conversation stays

Speaker 1 in a deep reddit board yeah um

Speaker 1 look man sometimes people just don't find the right

Speaker 1 sometimes they just don't find the right roles and there's we talk about like in the 70s and 80s it was just because they didn't have good roles

Speaker 1 in her case the role i just

Speaker 1 I don't know whether it was her fault. She couldn't read the scripts.
Like they didn't know which ones to do. No, no director saw what was sitting there.

Speaker 2 I'd love to know how many great roles she finished in second place. Right.
And it was, and you guys got to think, man, we're talking about,

Speaker 2 first of all, I want to say she's had a fantastic career. All right.
Great career. She was great.
Very successful.

Speaker 2 In the 90s, where we're talking about, we're talking about the rise with Julia Roberts as a stranglehold. But then right under Julia, there's Sandra Bullock.
There's Cameron Diaz.

Speaker 2 This is.

Speaker 1 But don't forget the Friends thing. And it's like, if you put her on Friends as Rachel, I think she's like an A-plus lister.

Speaker 2 But she just never had the one thing. But all of this, though, this is a crowded, crowded field.
And she took the Sarah Jessica Parker.

Speaker 2 She was in Miami raps. That's exactly who I was going to say.
I was like, Sarah Jessica Parker had the kind of career she could have had.

Speaker 1 She could have been a could Carla have been the Carrie Bradshaw.

Speaker 2 Definitely.

Speaker 1 Because the thing about her is she could be in a rom-com. She could be in a movie like this.
I think she could have been in like an early 80s De Palma movie.

Speaker 1 Like she could have played the Deborah Shelton character in Body Double.

Speaker 3 Um,

Speaker 1 and every guy was in love with her, devastating.

Speaker 2 And I thought she was a good actress,

Speaker 1 and she's funny, like at the end, when she's turning on the charm with Nick Cage, and you're like, This guy's a loser. Why do you, why are you?

Speaker 2 But I believed it, yeah. There's a hot moment there where uh, both Carla Gugino and Connie Britton were on Spin City, and I was like, What is what is happening? Connie Britton's another one.

Speaker 2 Think about how long it took for Connie Britton.

Speaker 1 It took, and then it was Coach Taylor, and it's like, oh, yeah, Connie Britton, she's arrived.

Speaker 2 Yeah. She's just, I'll just be very frank, just insanely hot in Snake Eyes.
Like, it is, it is insane how hot she is, at least to me in this movie. And it is weird because she's like

Speaker 2 still working and doing really good work.

Speaker 2 For sure. But there are a few people like we've talked about on the show over the years where you're like.

Speaker 2 one turn of the dial and it would have been a different career. Right.
You see her now. She's in the Mike Flanagan stuff a lot.
She's doing a lot of different stuff.

Speaker 2 She's all, she's a presence and a deal.

Speaker 1 But once it's weird, the last seven, eight years was probably the best run she's had from an IMDb standpoint. Well, she, she had, she had Karen Sisco.

Speaker 2 That was supposed to be a big TV show. That didn't pop, you know, but she did.

Speaker 1 She was in the Cameron Crowe roadies, that Showtime show. That didn't work.

Speaker 2 Seems like it should have.

Speaker 2 It's, it's, it's, once again, it's somebody that you always feel like is who's having a great, great career, but you feel like it's one roll away from that next echelon of stardom?

Speaker 1 Like, she probably was looking at Aniston like, I could fucking have her lunch.

Speaker 2 Could kill her. I'll be honest with you.
I'm looking at the

Speaker 2 list of roles here.

Speaker 2 It's very varied. She took Miami Rhapsody is a movie that I love that.

Speaker 2 It's a really fun movie. It's a really fun movie.
She's really good in it, Carla. Good job.
She's great in it. Sarah Jessica Parker, Antonio Banderis.
It's kind of like free willing.

Speaker 2 Jeremy Piven, story of love and relationships that takes place in Miami. It's like really interesting.

Speaker 1 There's some Amanda Pete parts she could have played.

Speaker 2 That's a good comp too.

Speaker 1 It's just, I just think you're right.

Speaker 2 I think it was a loaded comedic actor with dramatic draft class. Yeah.
Right. Yeah.
And then, you know, later on, her courage just keeps trending.

Speaker 2 She's in Cin City, which is a role that I really, really enjoyed from her.

Speaker 2 Did you? Yeah, that was. What did you think was the best part? I thought she brought a lot to the table in Cin City.
Like a lot.

Speaker 2 Anything specific no some things were unexpected but i liked that it happened yeah but i want to if you guys want to just get into the whole thing it's a good film with funny thing she never had like even if she played the ellen pompeo part in old school

Speaker 1 some sort of thing that just was like on all the time for 25 years she never had that movie she said for my wife which is true beverly hills oh come on interesting yeah yeah

Speaker 1 to eileen she'll always be the girl from true beverly hills i know you love it well in this movie she tests missile results for Powell aircraft. Speak on True Beverly Hills.

Speaker 2 They're building the... Which one? Speak on True Beverly Hills.

Speaker 1 I want your opinion. I haven't seen it in 45 years.

Speaker 1 Remember.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Beverly Hills. What up? Can we talk about how Carla was

Speaker 1 Carla was testing missile results? Which I'm just going to give her this

Speaker 2 special category.

Speaker 1 We don't get to give out much. The Elizabeth Shu is an Oxford Electrochemist Award for Most Ridiculous Casting.

Speaker 2 I was hoping that would fall to me. It didn't.
Damn it. That category.

Speaker 1 were that was gonna be yours yeah of course oh my bad craig

Speaker 2 can i ask i knew it was gonna go what does because i always bring this role up when we we do this one denise richards as that's the that that could probably be the title nuclear physicist her name is dr christmas jones christmas jones yeah i remember she's on jay leno and jay leno cost

Speaker 2 nuclear scientist dr christmas jones and she goes i can play a scientist so she's like like what when we do this is this category

Speaker 2 what do you need to play a science i think it's more her age is the issue yeah it's like i don't know why 26 year old missiles ex

Speaker 2 there's so specific about it she's like i'm 26. ah you could have been 31.
right 26. it's very strange

Speaker 1 um we also have a very crowded that guy and graduated that guy group this is is this the that guy movie of the 90s there's been others but it's a good one louise guzman Stan Sean, John Hurd.

Speaker 1 Mike Starr, who's the guy who dies from India the Peppers and Dumb and Dumber and was in a million mob movies.

Speaker 2 Great poll on that being Mike Starr. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Kevin Dunn, who was that guy from Dave. Absolutely.
Who was the dad in Mad Love and was just in a lot of 90s movies. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then Michael Rispoli, who is grandma on rounders in this in the same year.

Speaker 2 I'm just going to say

Speaker 2 that. Going for the Sopranos.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Going for the Sopranos and finished the second again Dolphini.

Speaker 2 Tough.

Speaker 1 98 for Rispoli.

Speaker 2 He must have really felt like the world was right in front of him. Yeah.
You know, I'm in a Brian DePalma movie. I'm in this exciting movie with Matt Damon and Edward Norton.

Speaker 2 I'm going to be Tony Soprano. Yeah, this HBL.
He ends up as Jackie, right? Yeah. Yeah, he ends up as Jackie.
So it's like, but

Speaker 2 it's crazy. You missed one, Jernard Burks.
You know what that is?

Speaker 1 Which one was that?

Speaker 2 So in Devil in a Blue Dress.

Speaker 2 Remember the movie Devil in a Blue Dress? Yeah. He plays in the movie.
I'll never forget this. It's one of the great cookings in any movie that's ever happened.

Speaker 2 In Devil in a Blue Dress, it takes place. Easy goes over to this guy's house and he has sex with his wife while the guy is sleeping.
Do you remember this? Yes. Lisa Nicole Carson in the other room.

Speaker 2 Continue. Yeah, he has sex with his wife.

Speaker 2 That's his. That guy is sleeping.

Speaker 1 That's that's this guy.

Speaker 2 He's like, he's like, because he says to Lisa nicole carson's character he goes your man is sleeping in the other room she doesn't care she's like he's so drunk he's knocked out and then they do it and janard burks plays the guy that gets cooked in a shout out to him he's been in a lot of stuff but well there's a that girl in this too

Speaker 1 that girl from devil's advocate the the black witch lady oh yeah she's in the first scene oh yeah yeah what's her name now it's her tamaritooney is that her name i can't remember yeah what's her name yeah uh written by david kep who apparently is the fourth most successful screenwriter ever by Box Office.

Speaker 2 He wrote Jurassic Park, among many other movies.

Speaker 1 War of the Worlds, Carlito's Way, Mission Impossible, Spider-Man. Also directed seven movies that weirdly, the trigger effect, Stir of Echoes, Secret Window, they're all like kind of the same weird,

Speaker 2 strange movie.

Speaker 2 He's had an amazing career. Really good career.
He's considered one of the

Speaker 2 geniuses of screenwriting. Have you guys done the trigger effect?

Speaker 1 No. Would you do the trigger effect? Probably not.

Speaker 2 I like it. Another movie that came out in the 90s 90s where I was like, the concept alone is so cool to me.
Elizabeth Shu. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Another actress that's right there crowding up.

Speaker 1 Crabs leaving Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Crowding up the saints.
Wow. For Carlyle.
Would you like another? I'm telling you, it's a deep

Speaker 2 deep boxed out. Yeah, we could have had at first sight, you know, with, oh no, was that? No, that was another one.

Speaker 1 She was also

Speaker 2 making trouble towards the end. There's like a lot of people.

Speaker 1 Craig, you know what at first sight is?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 It's a drama that's now comedy.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Val Comer is blind, but there's an operation where he can get his sight back so he can see things for about 30 minutes in the movie and falls in love with Mira Sabrino. But guess what?

Speaker 1 The surgery had after effects and he's going to lose his sight again. And now he has to decide what's important to him.

Speaker 1 And they go to a hockey game at one point.

Speaker 2 Why don't we do dramas that are now comedy month? I have it.

Speaker 1 I haven't.

Speaker 1 I've done all the work because it's a regarding Henry driven month.

Speaker 2 I saw at first sight in high school on a first date with a girl who loved it, and I broke up with her after that.

Speaker 2 That was it.

Speaker 2 It's a true story.

Speaker 2 Think of it. You're over it.

Speaker 2 Regarding Henry as unintentional comedy is going to be a really interesting movie to do.

Speaker 1 There's another one for dramas that are now comedy month that I might be the only one that thinks it's funny, but Legends of the Fall is hilarious.

Speaker 2 Oh, I haven't seen it in a long time.

Speaker 1 That was like a very serious drama that is now like laugh out loud funny.

Speaker 2 Man, that's just another movie in the never-ending chapter of my mama's white boy thing no there's every once in a while my mama would say something that would really piss me off you want that to be a month fan yeah my mama's white boy thing my mama's white boy thing my mama watch legends of the fall and be like

Speaker 2 that i told you about the uh the thema and louise story yes yeah my mom goes your mom likes with her friends she goes i just saw the finest white boy i ever seen before in my life and then she goes she's watching legends of the fall and she just says he keeps getting finer i don't understand what's going on my father could not handle it.

Speaker 1 Just think when she went to see Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, did she go?

Speaker 2 No, she didn't see it. She's over it now.
She's militant again.

Speaker 1 $73 million budget for

Speaker 1 $73 million budget for Snake Eyes. It made $103.9 million.

Speaker 1 And our guy, Raj,

Speaker 1 he one-starred it.

Speaker 2 Oh, no.

Speaker 1 I think this is something like the fourth one-star we've gotten from Raj.

Speaker 1 He said, it's the worst kind of bad film, the kind that gets you all worked up and then lets you down instead of being lousy from the first shot. Damn.
Yeah, settle down, Rush.

Speaker 2 Come on. He's hit up.

Speaker 1 He loved the steady cam shot in the beginning and then he just thought it fell apart.

Speaker 2 Man, oh, man, oh, man. Interesting.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 He gets Halloween two, two stars in this movie, one star. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He was sometimes Raj would just be in a bad mood.

Speaker 2 Cranky. Yeah.

Speaker 2 This is a tough review.

Speaker 1 Oh, you read it?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's a tough one. Most re-watchable scene.
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Speaker 1 We mentioned for the first rewatchable scene, the opening one shot.

Speaker 1 In the running for best over acting of Cage's career,

Speaker 2 because I was made for the sewer, baby, and I'm I'm the kid.

Speaker 2 He's just screaming for no reason. It was like an Ace Ventura moment for me.
Like, when I sat down to watch Ace Ventura, it took me 10 minutes to be like, yo, why is he acting like this?

Speaker 2 And then you got it.

Speaker 2 Tyler, when you got, when you saw Nick Cage in this, you're like, yo, what the fuck is going on? Is he supposed to be on cocaine? Yeah, he's like, he's.

Speaker 2 Well, there's the cocaine my ass line at the end of the movie, I think, indicates he likes to indulge in this fight night. I think it's reasonable to assume.

Speaker 2 That said, Cage is kind of like this in a lot of movies.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is a nine and a half out of 10 on the cage.

Speaker 1 He's nuts. Yes.
An all-time dial-up by him.

Speaker 1 Really cool scene.

Speaker 2 It's great when you can see him nailing the

Speaker 2 synchronization with the crowd. Like there's a moment when he is watching the fight and he stands up.

Speaker 2 And as he stands up, the whole, and he yells something and then the whole crowd stands up behind him where it's like, that is to get that many extras to work at the same time is

Speaker 2 master filmmaker A-plush it. That's not CGI, all those people in the crowd.
That's like hundreds, maybe thousands of extras.

Speaker 1 I think it helps the rewatchability of the movie too. Totally.
Because it's like it definitely like, how the fuck did they do this?

Speaker 1 10 minutes. Also very skilled.

Speaker 2 He's going back and forth between the girlfriend and the wife on the gold flip phone, the pizza with the wife, the birthday with the girlfriend. Yeah.
And they let you figure it out, right?

Speaker 2 They're not like overexplaining everything. You just, the movie just drops you into his world.
You get like one second of setup and then we're going.

Speaker 1 The shooting scene itself,

Speaker 2 pretty good.

Speaker 1 When he watches the video, the knockout punch,

Speaker 1 where he realizes it's a Sonny Liston situation, right into Carla wiping blood off in the bathroom, which I just put it for Van.

Speaker 2 That scene alone, I think, is worth spending some time on.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Just right there.
Hey, the blood angle that he chooses, I think, is really interesting.

Speaker 1 You got to get the blood off.

Speaker 2 Once again, the Palma-esque. You keep thinking that he's going to go for it, that there's a change of clothes happening or something.

Speaker 2 I admire the restraint. I remire the restraint as well.

Speaker 1 As regrettable as it might be. The next scene I wrote down, Stanshaw and Nick Cage scream at each other.

Speaker 2 It's an all-time Ruffalo handed Rubinik Partridge combo overacting award. They're just screaming for two minutes.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, I'll come back to that.

Speaker 1 Flashback to the redhead pulling.

Speaker 1 pulling Sinise away from the fight. That whole, I like when De Palma goes backwards.
Always fun. The elevator chase.

Speaker 1 The overhead shot of the Atlantic City rooms.

Speaker 1 I'm throwing in the Maddie Louie Rubin award for did this movie need a better sex scene here? I feel like one of those rooms could have had some freaky Atlantic City shit going on.

Speaker 1 Topama's like, you know what? No, I'm older now. I'm wiser.
I'm not going to put it in.

Speaker 2 It's more important that frat boys spray beer on each other. Which was weird.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was weird.

Speaker 1 Carla tells her story to Nick Cage on the staircase.

Speaker 1 I I thought I'd get fired, not killed.

Speaker 1 DePalma goes split screen as she's telling the story. I always liked how DePalma would use boxes and split screens.

Speaker 1 I just feel like not enough directors do that. They see multiple things at the same time.

Speaker 1 By the way, even when the Dodgers won the World Series, I would have gone split screen multiple boxes so we can see. Three different things happening at the same time.
They always discount.

Speaker 2 Our TVs are better now. What do they do with the things?

Speaker 2 For the Dodgers?

Speaker 1 No, No, like we see the people on the mound celebrating, but then they split screen and we also see the people in the dugout celebrating.

Speaker 2 I got to give a shout out to my friend John DeMarsico, who directs the Mets broadcasts because this has been written about many times, but he's a huge cinephile.

Speaker 2 And in the baseball broadcasts that he directs, he constantly is using all of those. Oh, really? He has like huge, he's a huge De Palma fan, has all kinds of De Palma mods.

Speaker 2 You just Google him and look up all the stuff he's done. You'll just be watching a Mets game and he'll just pull a move from Scarface in the middle of the Mets Yeah, just really cool.

Speaker 2 What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 Guy sounds like your soulmate.

Speaker 2 He is the man.

Speaker 1 Does he hate his sports life like you do, or no?

Speaker 2 I don't think he has as tortured a relationship to the Mets as I do. He sees them as a vessel for his creativity, much like De Palma sees Carlo Gougini.

Speaker 1 You almost got cashed by Arro Hawani this weekend because he almost had the back-to-back days of the Blue Jays

Speaker 1 in the World Series, then the Bills blowing the Chiefs game.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, we share Ariel and I share the Knicks.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and you had the Halburton game in May. Thanks for reminding me.

Speaker 1 Sorry.

Speaker 2 Great stuff.

Speaker 1 Cage finds the hidden video of Sinece.

Speaker 1 The classic. You're like, oh, man, you just have your back to that door for too long.
We're going to see the legs going down this day. And there it is.
It's Sineese.

Speaker 1 I really like when bad guys explain why they did what they did. And you're kind of like,

Speaker 1 I see his point. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 He's trying to save the country. You feel like Sineez has a point now.
He's trying to save the country with something that doesn't really work.

Speaker 1 He's a bad guy uh-huh but at least he he seems a little conflicted but i think he's just a good actor he seems a little as he's telling it he's like i know this is kind of up but here's how we got to this point versus like oh i'm evil is he just rationalizing his own greed totally you know totally but he i i bought it as convinced

Speaker 2 yeah i was like okay it's also you guys see house of dynamite like this is a plot point in house of dynamite where it's like this technology might not work you know it's like there's only a 50 50 chance of these

Speaker 2 anti-ballistic non-configurations.

Speaker 1 I saw the first episode of House of the Dynamite.

Speaker 2 I didn't get to see the second episode yet. Okay.

Speaker 1 I saw the part. It was, it was about to get to where the bomb was, and then the credits came up.
So I just, I'm going to wait till next week to finish it.

Speaker 2 Okay, let us know when you finish the season. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's not, I mean, it's not really good. It's really not.
Curses again in the second one. He hasn't cursed in the first one.

Speaker 1 By the way, Nick Cage smoking this, these Sean Penn, I brought my own PAC award for excellence in on-screen smoking. Underrated smoker, Nick Cage.

Speaker 2 Yeah, smokes awesome.

Speaker 1 Just kind of could have it dangling in the right way.

Speaker 2 Her say very believable. Yeah.
Almost as though he has partaken.

Speaker 1 We also, Van, we get, somebody says the name of the movie in the

Speaker 2 in the in the dialogue. Love that.

Speaker 1 You got nothing, kiddo. Snake eyes.
The house always wins.

Speaker 2 Great. You did it.
Love it.

Speaker 1 You worked that

Speaker 1 too at the end. He runs it back.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's no we, Kevin. You got snake eyes with the chess suicide, which we don't see a lot in the action thrillers.

Speaker 2 i have some notes on i love it that you like the chest suicide i think it's smart open open coffin but he's like i have to i have to turn my back

Speaker 2 open

Speaker 2 like you don't

Speaker 2 you don't even get he's thinking he was looking at for his family goes on in your brain chest suicide you don't see it in an action mood

Speaker 2 You think he'll be getting like a really a formal military funeral? Now it'll be much more transactions.

Speaker 1 And then last but not least, the fall of Richard Santoro, which happens for reasons we'll discuss later. What's your most re-watchable scene, Sean?

Speaker 2 Steady Cam? So the opening scene is, no question,

Speaker 2 the best scene, the most memorable scene in the movie for me, Gagino notwithstanding. But I do like

Speaker 2 all four flashback sequences, or basically all of the POV sequences. So you get, you see it through Rick Santoro's eyes in that opening scene.

Speaker 2 You see it through Tyler Lincoln's eyes when he's telling the story, his version of the story. You see it through Kevin Dunn's eyes when he's telling his false version of the story.

Speaker 2 And then you see it through Julia Costello's eyes, Gagino's character, when they're sitting on the steps.

Speaker 2 You know, it's an obvious homage to Rashamon and a lot of movies about like the failure of memory. But

Speaker 2 you mentioned it when you were describing them. Like every time he goes back, even though we're seeing something that we think we already know, he manages to turn.

Speaker 2 the key just a little bit differently, which makes it to me a huge improvement on a movie like House of Dynamite, which does a very similar thing, way worse.

Speaker 2 And there is a way to do this kind of of storytelling and make it very exciting i don't love how this movie concludes find the final 10 minutes a little tough but everything leading up to that i think is really engaging so the the open is obviously like y'all saying the the best stuff to me however the specific scene where garius inice

Speaker 2 uh he turns bad and you see that he is really bad not turns bad you actually see what he is for me is

Speaker 2 was just way more compelling than I remember it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 In this particular time where he's executing his accomplices and all of that stuff to me it just it it worked a lot better like after that that's a real turning point in the movie to where this guy embodies scumbag asshole well acted very high leverage so that really worked for me do you guys buy them as old friends

Speaker 2 oh

Speaker 1 good question

Speaker 2 they have different energies they they do and they needed something else there needed to be they're old friends yeah cool we get it But there needed to be something else that undergirded their friendship.

Speaker 2 Are we supposed to believe that they were in the service together?

Speaker 1 Either that or like high school.

Speaker 2 It said that they were friends, like childhood friends, but did they all did, was Nick Cage's character, did he serve?

Speaker 2 I couldn't figure that out. Garrison East's character has such

Speaker 2 a faith in his ability to come work for like the State Department or something like that.

Speaker 2 It's almost as if he knows that he has a set of skills that can be useful on the federal level because of something they do together. Yeah.

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Speaker 1 Next category. The most 1998 thing

Speaker 1 about this movie.

Speaker 1 I have a couple of nominees for you.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Huge heavyweight fights in Atlantic City. This was my number one.

Speaker 2 Yeah. That's the obvious.

Speaker 1 The 90s were like Atlantic City was the place for

Speaker 1 nine years and then it died.

Speaker 2 This was right in the heart of Tyson Holyfield. Yep.
When those two fights.

Speaker 1 Foreman had a couple there.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Those two fights were right in that 96, 97, 98. And Vegas was making a very direct move to become like.

Speaker 2 not just a place where you gamble and have, but the actual entertainment capital of the entire world. There was a very direct corporate move to Vegas.

Speaker 2 And that's what ended up happening to Atlantic City. Just Vegas just had the support of all the big hotel chains.
chains.

Speaker 1 Vegas got it back in the early 2000s. The fights all came back.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, at the end of it, it started to be like you couldn't have a big fight in AC anymore. Like you couldn't be out there.

Speaker 1 Nick's 1998 cell phone.

Speaker 2 That's the other one I wrote down, the gold embossed flip phone. And it's the most 98 thing ever.

Speaker 1 It's like you couldn't even fit it in your jeans pocket. I also have people caring about the defense secretary.

Speaker 2 What do you mean? Pete Hanks said this in in the news every day.

Speaker 1 Just people like, oh, he's here. He's at the fight.

Speaker 2 It's like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 In 1998, I would not have cared the defense secretary was in a fight.

Speaker 2 I have people clapping for the defense secretary.

Speaker 2 Still a situation to where people went, hey, somebody high up in the government. Yay.

Speaker 1 The only other one I have is at some point, one of the characters says, we got a goddamn Columbo around running loose.

Speaker 1 You know what Colombo is?

Speaker 2 Only because of Poker Face. Okay.
Oh.

Speaker 2 What's Columbo hasn't trickled down? Culturally,

Speaker 2 that was that's a good show.

Speaker 1 Need Kathy Bates to bring him back.

Speaker 2 It's a very enjoyable TV show. What's the best for you? Yeah.
What more theme? If so-and-so is having it, like, and you're watching it, and you're like, you're fucked. Columbo knows.

Speaker 1 I like Quincy. I was a Quincy guy.

Speaker 2 Never saw that. That's what I mean.
The doctor? Coroner. MD.
Yeah, the Quincy MD. Of all of those detectives, if you're in a draft of TV detectives, what do you got to tell you?

Speaker 2 Vales, kojak kojack kojak you got kojak you got matt lock you got stan tannin from vegas is the answer

Speaker 1 stanned robert young he got down even his like assistant

Speaker 2 down he was just surrounded by the ladies that's not what we were talking about we're talking about that's my favorite one who's the best at solving crimes you freak oh quincy Because Quincy could use corner shit.

Speaker 1 He was a cop who could also do autopsies of the victims. Like nobody can beat that.

Speaker 2 He's a crazy actor for a TV show.

Speaker 2 It's not enough to just be a detective.

Speaker 1 And every once in a while, he would look up at Sam, his assistant, and go, it wasn't suicide, Sam, it was murder.

Speaker 2 Okay, just different situation because one guy is legal and the other guy is medical. But as far as doctors who are also somehow detectives,

Speaker 2 do you have Quincy or House MD?

Speaker 1 Because House MD. House MD was good.

Speaker 2 House MD was look into some shit and give you House MD was the man.

Speaker 1 House MD was good. Did you like House?

Speaker 2 Didn't watch it.

Speaker 2 No interest.

Speaker 1 What stage is the best? An athlete falling into debt and having to do something illegal.

Speaker 2 Shit. Wow.

Speaker 1 I wish that wasn't topical right now.

Speaker 2 Jesus. Yeah.
There's a couple of these.

Speaker 2 Show the mafia, man. Don't just talk about the players.
Show the mafia. Oh, yeah.
This is my people. You want to talk about my people? I don't really want to talk about them as much.

Speaker 1 What do you have for what's age your best, shot?

Speaker 2 Interesting how you kicked it to me.

Speaker 2 I mean, this is a very topical film right now, right?

Speaker 1 Let's do that part later.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I have another spot for that.

Speaker 2 I think the

Speaker 2 Maestro movie is like a thing where it's like,

Speaker 2 let this guy cook. Like,

Speaker 2 we're only making this movie. Because this guy knows how to make movies feel fucking awesome.
Like, this is something that is also kind of gone now from movies.

Speaker 2 But as I said, like this is maybe the 10th or 11th best Brian DePalma movie, but it is one of the most watchable movies of the 1990s.

Speaker 2 And it is only that way because he can see the movie in his head and he makes it so special in the style that he has. So I don't know.
There's just not, that has aged nicely.

Speaker 2 We don't get those as often as we used to.

Speaker 1 I have the moment in action thrillers when we realize someone we thought we knew is the bad

Speaker 1 there's always that, like in this movie, he's Sanice is walking the hallway and he kind of somebody's going ahead and he kind of stops and he looks around and you're like, oh no,

Speaker 1 it's you, you're the bad guy. Yeah, and he just gets on his phone, but they always, those moments are always fun.
Um, Sine says as a bad guy, we talked about, did we have another acceptable loss?

Speaker 1 Like acceptable losses. Yeah, been a good fantasy team name.

Speaker 3 Um,

Speaker 1 an award for the random guy who didn't do anything wrong in an action thriller but has to die anyway, we might have to consider for this next batch when we do our 26.

Speaker 1 In this case, the guy who thinks he's getting laid by Carla and takes her up to the room, and that guy just gets shot with a silencer. It's like, did that guy do anything wrong?

Speaker 2 That's what's aged the best in me. What that guy getting murdered, uh, asshole Josh Gadd, um, being used

Speaker 2 by a supernatural guy. I forget that guy's name, he was like Malcolm.

Speaker 2 It's not Josh Gadd, it's pre-Josh, Gad. It's pre-Josh Gadd.
It's Gad before the Gad. Yeah.
Pre-Gad. That guy being used by a hot woman for her own thing.
Yeah. Thinking that he's the man.

Speaker 2 I never understand. So you're that dude.
Shout out to the Josh Gad guy. Josh God.
Yeah. Josh God.
You're that guy.

Speaker 1 I call him Gad, too.

Speaker 2 You're at AC. Yeah.
One night.

Speaker 2 Carla Guagino.

Speaker 2 For some reason, shows interest in you. Whatever.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 She's wearing a white mini skirt and a black bomber jacket that's zipped up with only a bra underneath

Speaker 2 and she comes up to you and is like yeah let's go up to your and you don't in any way do you have air conditioning i do yeah right you don't in any way think it can make it really cold like what's the deal because as guys that guy just knows he's hot he came to ac to

Speaker 2 and now it's about to happen whatever happens in ac in vegas

Speaker 2 He's not a very nice guy, that character is. He's not.

Speaker 2 When she's like, I'm in trouble, he's like, he's a drink. He deserves to put the sweating ring back on very pointedly.
They deserve to die with a silencer. So here's the thing, though.

Speaker 2 He's not a nice guy. And the wedding ring thing is fucked up.
But him

Speaker 2 actually,

Speaker 2 at the moment that he realizes that it's not going to go down, putting some distance between him and her, that's smart. Yeah.
Hey, I don't want there to be any type of like, you know what?

Speaker 2 You're not down. Let's, let's end the night right now.

Speaker 1 Well, what's aged the worst for this is now in 2025, you just assume this, this woman who's all of a sudden randomly interested to you is going to drug you in your room and take all your stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because there's been a lot more awareness of that the last 25 years, especially in Vegas and Atlanta.

Speaker 2 It literally happened to a friend of mine. I will not say who that friend is, but that literally happened to a friend.
New Orleans? In Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 I blame him.

Speaker 1 Here's one for Sean.

Speaker 2 I'm not casting any blame.

Speaker 1 Here's the one stage the best for Sean.

Speaker 1 The Palma Easter eggs in pivotal moments that we circle back to.

Speaker 1 You're watching this live for the first time here comes the pain here comes the pain and it's basically the owl in blow in blowout where it's like man he's really interested in this owl and then it's like oh he's john chavolta's character is going to watch this video and it's like oh there's the owl hooting before he says that though we do see that he's wearing an earpiece true and that you're that's a dead giveaway that something is up that he's fucked up yeah

Speaker 1 um Dirty cops who decide once and for all nobody's going to buy me anymore. I was like that in the movie.

Speaker 1 I've been bought for one last time.

Speaker 2 I've got to think of another time that I've seen that.

Speaker 1 I just have to mention a Palestinian sniper terrorist assassinating someone over their cooperation with Israel is topical in 2025.

Speaker 2 It is.

Speaker 1 I'm going to move on. Snake Eyes was the last Brian DePalma film for which Steven Spielberg viewed the rough cut.

Speaker 1 It's an official end of the group.

Speaker 2 Oh, they're not fucking with each other anymore.

Speaker 1 And they just kind of got old. It's like college buddies who don't really talk anymore.

Speaker 2 god damn are you telling me that there's an end to the bill simmons joe house run coming wow never wow no so i will say the palma is interviewed in the new martin scorsese doc mr scorsese and it's a he's great in it because he's known scorsese for 60 years but he's still a little competitive with him and you can tell yeah yeah like how come this guy got five parts my documentary is 100 minutes when when When I was getting into movies and I just thought those guys' relationship was so awesome.

Speaker 2 Like Spielberg comes on the the set of Scarface. He's like, do this, do that, all of that stuff.
And then one day, like all things, it must end. It's over.

Speaker 2 It is cool, though, that it's like, let me just call it my best friend who's also the greatest living filmmaker and he'll just help me on one day. That is fucking awesome.
Yeah, like this is the way.

Speaker 2 And then that scene becomes fucking, but it's also

Speaker 2 like a testament to the collaborative nature of these guys. And, you know.

Speaker 1 It's like when Craig asked me for advice for the fantasy football show. I just pop in like Spielberg.

Speaker 2 Cut this, move this around. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Have you ever thought about high fits maybe not doing?

Speaker 2 So Craig, the Spielberg in this, in this analogy?

Speaker 1 I think it's Soderbergh.

Speaker 2 The pump. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I have one last what's H to best. Trump,

Speaker 1 who I think would have whored out his Atlantic City Casino for just about anything in the 90s, being like, yeah, this is a little rich for me, this whole evil casino owner.

Speaker 1 So can you make that the Powell Millennium instead? And they don't use the Trump. Yes.
Very surprising that he did not allow them to use this.

Speaker 2 Or that he didn't appear in the film himself. Yeah.
That's the real you would have thought. Trump was right there.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So something must happen.

Speaker 2 John Hurd, though, loved John Hurd.

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Speaker 1 Hey, it's time for the Sean Fantasy Award for stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteriorgasm.

Speaker 2 One of the great categories on a wonderful show.

Speaker 2 My favorite is the scene when Gugino and Cage are sitting on the staircase, and there's an overhead shot of the staircase, and showing you all the levels of the stairs, and it gives you this sense of disorientation, which is a direct lift from Alfred Hitchcock's Vertigo.

Speaker 2 There's a scene near the end of the film

Speaker 2 in the chapel where we see Stewart looking down the staircase and feeling the sense of disorientation. And obviously, De Palma.

Speaker 2 I think Vertigo is his favorite movie of all time, and also one of the most perverse movies ever made about, you know, wanting to have sex.

Speaker 1 I want to actually do it for Rewatchables in 2026

Speaker 2 because that movie is full-fledged off the rails bonkers it is the it is the like origin point of so many of our favorite movies and favorite directors it would be hilarious if they just released that movie in like

Speaker 2 march with sydney sweeney as the kim novak character and they just gave nobody any context people would be like what the fuck is happening in this movie i mean i will kill myself if that happens and yet i would watch it like i need to see it first and then kill myself.

Speaker 1 What'd you have for Great Shot Gorda Award for most cinematic shot? I had the overhead AC rooms

Speaker 4 long

Speaker 1 shot just because I always think about like,

Speaker 1 how'd they do that? Did they have to build all these rooms one by one on a set?

Speaker 1 Did they steal, did they have to match it with the casino?

Speaker 2 Like, I think, yeah, I mean, I think it's all sets that they've built. There's a recent example of that in John Wick 4.

Speaker 2 There's this very similar sequence where they enter an apartment building and it's the entire action sequence takes place overhead that is fucking amazing.

Speaker 2 But I would not be surprised if they looked at this to do that. It's long.

Speaker 2 No, have you seen that sequence? Yeah. Where he has the fire gun? It's crazy.

Speaker 1 Apparently in episode 4 of House of Dynamite, there's something like that. I haven't seen it yet.
Front of mine at a screener.

Speaker 2 My cinematic shot is when Carlo Gogino falls to the floor and her glasses fall on the floor.

Speaker 2 and the camera is all the way on the bottom of the floor and it's just looking at the glasses and you're like oh no somebody's gonna step on those glasses and then crunch somebody steps on the glasses.

Speaker 1 It's a good one.

Speaker 2 Mine is

Speaker 2 there is a

Speaker 2 just sort of pretty long shot through a cracked door at the party.

Speaker 1 With the two guys talking, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. In there, where it starts with a bunch of hot models smoking crack, it looks like.
Yeah. They're smoking crack cocaine, which I didn't realize.
In Tyler's room. Yeah, in Tyler.

Speaker 2 And so, but there's a long, and it stays there for a second. And you look like you're watching something that you're not supposed to be watching.
So it puts you directly in.

Speaker 2 I like when the camera or the style of the movie puts you in an emotional like situation.

Speaker 1 And you're like, is that Bobby Brown?

Speaker 2 Out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 New edition getting back together.

Speaker 1 Chess Brockwell, Brock Landers Award for best character name. Lincoln Tyler, the AC Executioner.

Speaker 2 It's pretty good. That's good.
AC Executioner is really good. I do think the main characters' names are really good in this movie.

Speaker 2 Detective Rick Santoro, Atlantic City PD, and Commander Kevin Dunn, U.S. Naval Service.

Speaker 2 Commander Kevin Dunn.

Speaker 1 And they had a Kevin Dunn in the movie, but they didn't change the name of Commander Kevin Dunn. So there was the actor Kevin Dunne from Dave, but then there was a character Kevin Dunne to do.

Speaker 1 That's been confusing. What do you have for a flex category, Sean?

Speaker 2 I chose the I Use the Fuck Guys Like You in Prison Award for craziest quote. It's kind of more of an exchange, but it's very fast.
It starts with Kevin Dunn saying, how's Angela?

Speaker 2 And Rick Santoro says, fat, fabulous, fantastic. I love her.
Then Commander Kevin Dunn says, how's the other one? What's her name? Candy? And Santoro says, oh, Monique, skinny, mean, expensive.

Speaker 2 I love her.

Speaker 2 That's just a great moment in this movie.

Speaker 1 That's a cage cooking.

Speaker 2 Yeah. The line reading is perfect and sums up what an asshole this guy is.

Speaker 1 The Butch's Girlfriend Award for week link of the film. Well, let's talk about the tidal wave.

Speaker 1 There's supposed to be a tidal wave in this movie that ends the movie. It was filmed by Industrial Light and Magic.
You can see some of it online because the original ending or part of it is in there.

Speaker 1 And for some reason, they bail on this in the post-edit, do the different ending.

Speaker 1 But it explains why when you're watching this, it's thunder, it's rain, people are looking up.

Speaker 1 The movie begins with them talking about a storm. And then there's no payoff.
And I have no idea why they cut it.

Speaker 2 He has talked about how he ultimately didn't feel that this is what this movie was about. It wasn't a spectacle movie.

Speaker 2 It was a movie about that intrigue that Van was talking about at the top that it was.

Speaker 1 But how did they not know that before they committed to this tidal wave?

Speaker 2 I think that they weren't happy with how the tidal wave looked. You can watch the tidal wave sequence on YouTube.
It's on YouTube. It is okay.

Speaker 2 This is kind of getting into my hottest take, but I think my hottest take is that it's significantly better if you put the tidal wave back in, even what's existing.

Speaker 1 That's why I have it as the weak link. I don't know why they took it out.

Speaker 1 It's like that we dance toward it for 90 minutes and then it just doesn't. The movie just deflates.

Speaker 2 And also the

Speaker 2 Kevin Dunn self-assassination, you know, is just weird. Like that whole moment is very strange where he turns his back to the camera.

Speaker 2 Put the gun down. We know who you are.
It's like, how do they know who he is? I think the movie ending with the tidal wave is, to me, like a natural evolution of. the chaotic nature of the film.

Speaker 2 The escalation. Yeah, to where something just kind of like random or not so random, but something that's been building comes along and sweeps everything up.
I totally agree.

Speaker 1 You're pro-tidal wave? Pro-tidal wave.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Even at the very end, like the cage and Gagino on the, on the beach, like the kiss, it felt like very outside what the movie was. It felt a little too like buttoned up and rom-com-y.
Yes.

Speaker 1 What's age the worst?

Speaker 1 I think if you made this movie in 25,

Speaker 1 there would have been all the cameras. They would have been trying to, they would have figured out so many weird things about this assassination.

Speaker 1 Why did this girl in the white dress with the button wig go and it fell off? And who is this? And we would have had all these.

Speaker 2 Are you arguing that?

Speaker 1 No, I'm saying just 1998, you could get away with an assassination thing like this at a fight and not have people

Speaker 2 know who it was. Yes.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.
I mean, well, obviously.

Speaker 1 This whole assassination thing made way more sense in 1998, I think, than it would in 2025.

Speaker 2 An insanely elaborate plan, right? With a lot of plan that they're attempting

Speaker 2 with a lot on the line, like at this particular time, there's almost there's one of my picking this is that there's a more efficient way to do what it is that they want.

Speaker 1 Yeah, why does a boxer have to take a dive for them to kill this guy in the front row?

Speaker 2 I don't fully understand that. Obviously, the enlisting the Palestinian to be the trigger man, but then immediately killing the trigger man is very, you know, shades of JFK, obviously, in this.

Speaker 2 And then also, I don't really understand Carla Guggino's character's plan either. Like, why does she have to use this event to go to

Speaker 2 a simpler, much more straight-to-the-point way of everyone getting what they wanted to get accomplished in this movie?

Speaker 1 You can now watch Rewatchables on Spotify and the Ringers' first ever television channel. Yeah, you heard me.
Available exclusively on Samsung TV Plus.

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Speaker 1 To watch, all you have to do is open the Samsung TV Plus app on your Samsung TV or Galaxy mobile device, navigate to the Ringer channel, and boom, you're in.

Speaker 1 Van, you're up with the flex category.

Speaker 2 My flex category is Van Lathan, how would you have gotten out of this?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Which character are you playing?

Speaker 2 So I'm Rick Santorum. Okay.
And so you have a wife. Rick Santorum or Santorum? Excuse me.
Santorum. I'm thinking of political party.
You should be Rick Santorum in this match.

Speaker 1 Rick Santorum, as Rick Santorum.

Speaker 2 As Rick Santorum. So you have a wife and a girlfriend that you have to explain where you've been.
Okay. It's like something's going crazy.
There's all this stuff going on, but you haven't been home.

Speaker 2 You're not really on the phone anymore. You have a wife and a girlfriend.
It's two completely different ways. So you have to call Angela and Monique.

Speaker 2 Angela and Monique because they're both calling you and they want to know what's going on. The wife is Angela, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 So you talk to her first and you let her know that, look, honey, I don't know if you know. What's the homeboy's name again? Commander Kevin Dunn.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Man, Kevin, this guy is not who I thought he was. Yeah.
All right. Kevin, not coming back to Christmas, baby.
No more. No more Kevin.

Speaker 2 Kevin is like one of the most you know how he picks up he plays with the kids he does all of this stuff yeah that's not the guy this guy's a killer this guy's an asshole she's on the other end of the phone like i always told you there was something about him that i didn't like i saw so i saw the darkness in him i could look at him and i could tell that there's just something wrong about that guy you're like baby you were right you were right this guy's out of our life forever look at my face look at what happened to my face that was him He had the heavyweight champion of the world assault me.

Speaker 2 Baby, you were right about him. totally different situation with the girlfriend the girlfriend's name again is monique monique monique where have you been i haven't talked hey

Speaker 2 that's not how our relationship goes what did jay-z say our time together is our time together our time apart is our time apart so you love rick with your mind and not with your heart i got a whole family You don't call me and ask me where I've been.

Speaker 2 That's not what you do. Now, I will tell you this.
The rooms at this hotel in AC are amazing. So if in a couple of days after this all blows over, you want to come check this out, that's cool.

Speaker 2 If you want to have some fun, that's cool. But I got kids and a family and a wife.
Don't call this phone no more after 1030.

Speaker 2 Wow, a clinic on how to deal with the Gumar.

Speaker 2 One thing I really like when he's talking to

Speaker 2 his wife early in the movie is she's asking about what pizza order they should do. Yeah.
And he's giving her the details about what's on the different pizzas. And he's like, I don't fucking know.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to be eating it. I'm not going to be home.
You know, like it's a very relatable fight. Also, why does she, can his wife not order a pizza?

Speaker 2 Why does he have to bring the pizza home at one in the morning? But see, this is a good thing. Fucking order a pizza yourself.

Speaker 2 This is, but that's the kind of, that's what he got in his, in the heat of man of his family.

Speaker 2 That's what he got going on. You know what I'm saying? Maybe y'all let y'all women have free reign to order pizzas and stuff like that, but not Rick.

Speaker 2 I feel like since we know that Monique is skinny, mean, and expensive, she might push back a little bit on Rick's attempt to manage that scenario. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And we know his wife is, to use his words, fat and fantastic.

Speaker 1 So it might have been a late-night pizza for her.

Speaker 2 She might have already had dinner. It might have been her second pizza of the day.

Speaker 1 We're going to take a break and then do hottest take.

Speaker 1 All right. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford Hottest Take Award.
Sean, did you do your thing?

Speaker 2 So I think the title wave would have been a much better ending, but I do think the less classy the material, the better the Brian De Palma movie.

Speaker 2 So, like, obviously, we talked about Bonfire of the Vanities, very classy novel adaptation of a Tom Wolf book. Not a successful movie.

Speaker 2 The hot take part is that I just don't think The Untouchables is very good. And

Speaker 2 it is like the classiest of the De Palma movies, and it's never been one of my movies. I've never really cared about it.
I don't think it's that interesting.

Speaker 2 And I would much rather watch Blowout or Dress to Kill or Body Double or this movie than The Untouchables. Now, do you think those movies are better or do you think The Untouchables kind of sucks?

Speaker 2 I don't know if it sucks. Like, it obviously is so well made.
I just find it kind of dull.

Speaker 2 You agree?

Speaker 1 We did it on Rewatchables. There's some,

Speaker 1 it's got the De Niro stuff that I love. It's got the Costner.
Like, I like it more than Sean. I get it.
I get his take. It's just,

Speaker 1 if a different director had made it, I think you would like it more.

Speaker 2 That might be it. It's like, I'm like, this is a missed opportunity.
Like, switch this. Like, two directors should trade again.

Speaker 1 You're watching Jason Kidd in the triangle offense, going, What's going on? Give this guy the ball and let him go.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, that's kind of the thing, right? When a director like him with like De Palma plays it slate, safe, and straight up and down the line, yeah, it kind of weighs on you a little bit.

Speaker 1 And that is a very it's like when Van goes on CNN.

Speaker 3 Um,

Speaker 2 I'm a rabble-rouser on CNN.

Speaker 2 You did, you did, Hell Raiser. You did uh, the glaze moment.
That was good.

Speaker 2 that was that was good you did do the glaze that was really good do you have a hottest take um i do that it's not a better movie but it might be a more interesting movie if the leads roles were reversed

Speaker 2 yeah

Speaker 2 sinease as the hero sine as the hero in this and nick cage sort of playing up but nick cage dialing it down and sineese dialing it up. Can Sinece pull off that shirt?

Speaker 2 Maybe not, but maybe you get something.

Speaker 2 Maybe, maybe Sinece wears, you know what he he could pull off a notorious big uh big versace type joint oh yeah the song a little louder and stuff like that if you i thought you were gonna go travolta cage reunion oh that works too where either of them could have played either part but you know what travolta can dial it up he could have been kevin dunne i think because he's got the general's daughter in him we know he can wear the uniform right General's daughter.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. It's an unfortunate film.
As I saw the movie, I kind of felt like in this movie, at a certain point, Cage was doing what he was doing. Yeah.
And Sinise was doing what he was doing.

Speaker 2 And that was what I was saying. They had different energies.
They're kind of like not really on the same wavelength in this movie. Right.

Speaker 2 If they would have switched it up, each guy would have subverted something and it might have been a little bit more interesting. My hatt's take:

Speaker 1 Nick Cage, number one guy all time you could cast in any part of a Vegas or Atlantic City movie. I'll use that.
He could play all the parts. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 He could be a blackjack dealer, cop, crooked cop, gambler, bookie, fight fixer, pimp, security guard.

Speaker 1 Name him, name anybody that works in a casino. Nick Cage could play that part.
Great tick. It's the only one that I can't think of anybody else you could say that about.

Speaker 2 Also, it can be the everyman that kind of gets his girl stolen by James Cohen.

Speaker 1 Could have been in the car with Vince Vaughan and Jon Favreau, younger Nick Cage. That's like the third party.

Speaker 2 Being like Vegas

Speaker 1 could have done everything.

Speaker 2 Great tick.

Speaker 1 Casting with ifs.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 1 De Palma

Speaker 1 offered Sinise's role

Speaker 1 to our guy, Al Pacino,

Speaker 1 who turned it down.

Speaker 2 Who

Speaker 2 would have been

Speaker 2 would have needed an older actor to play the other part if you do that, right?

Speaker 2 I was with Rick Santoro half an hour ago.

Speaker 2 He, of course, is the original utterer of here comes the pain. Carly goes away.

Speaker 1 And then this is where.

Speaker 2 Big time.

Speaker 1 This is where.

Speaker 2 Carly goes away.

Speaker 2 So good.

Speaker 2 I've been with made guys, connected guys. Who you been with?

Speaker 1 Love that. Van, this casting what if is going to break your brain.

Speaker 2 Okay. Let's see.

Speaker 1 Offered Sinise's role.

Speaker 1 Wouldn't take it because he wanted 20 million and they offered 12.

Speaker 1 Our guy, Will Smith,

Speaker 1 decided to do Enemy of the State instead.

Speaker 2 We all won. Good movie.
Yeah. Good two winners.

Speaker 1 I'm glad he did Enemy of the State.

Speaker 2 Look at the incestuous Enemy of the State he takes because Tom Cruise turned it down who worked with De Palma. Let's have movies possible.
Like the whole nine.

Speaker 2 Interesting movie with Will Smith in this movie, man.

Speaker 1 Could have also could have played either part, but I think him as Commander Kevin Dunn, Will Smith never played a part like that.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 Actually, it would have been really interesting.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't believe there was the cage. He never plays sleazy guys, never plays sleazy, never really plays villain.
So, like, he needed

Speaker 2 those, man.

Speaker 1 Give Phil Smith the fucking 20 million. It's 1998.
Like, that's he was the most bankable.

Speaker 2 It's kind of surprising.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 This kind of thing.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 the tidal wave.

Speaker 1 Best that guy award. We went through all the candidates.

Speaker 3 Um,

Speaker 1 I think it's, I think it's Michael Raspoli, even though we know what his name is. I think he's the most that guy of all the that guys.

Speaker 2 I have Dunn Raspoli and Mike Starr. I think those are like elite that guy actors.

Speaker 2 I have Burks just because Denzel fucked his girlfriend in the other room while he was asleep and Devil in the Blue Dress.

Speaker 1 Who do you have for Dean Waiters?

Speaker 2 It's the first I'm hearing of this.

Speaker 1 Who do you have for Dean Waiters?

Speaker 1 Carla's not eligible.

Speaker 2 A woman named Jane Heitmeier, who plays

Speaker 2 Serena the Redhead, aka the blonde, who

Speaker 2 is my pick for the cr i would throw my life away for her there you go wow uh she's just she's i was gonna she has the job the palm of the movie with the redhead you and and gambling and there's a lot of things that check sean's body very comfortable for me yeah it's like a warm bath she's like like a prototypical deon waiters in this row yeah yeah like prototypical i'm down with it um recasting couch director or city can we talk about

Speaker 1 Stan Shaw being a little bit too old to be Lincoln Tyler?

Speaker 2 Isn't it? He was going to be my weak link.

Speaker 1 He's like, looks like he's 47. Yeah, we did have older champs at that point.
Like Foreman was older.

Speaker 2 But if this is,

Speaker 2 he seems like he's almost 50.

Speaker 2 But if this is Michael Clark Duncan or Ving Rames, aren't you like, yeah, I buy that?

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 2 I like seeing him as a boxer. He played a boxer at Harlem Knights and all that stuff.
I love him as an actor.

Speaker 2 But when you watch it, I know he's supposed to be a little bit older, but he's jarringly a little bit older in this situation, like jarringly old to me yes we're two it's two years too early but this would have been a great 50 cent part

Speaker 1 two years too early because he wasn't 50 cent yet that came out in like 2000

Speaker 2 i was trying to think this it felt like a good stunt casting it's hard to eat a real actor there's just not a lot of actors who could credibly play a heavyweight yeah you have to be tall by the way he didn't have to be a heavyweight he could have been a welterweight or a middleweight it didn't really matter that's true you know you know it i i guess but at that time during the 90s that's probably a reflection to the fact that we only really

Speaker 2 we really at that point in the 90s were really super caring about heavyweight boxing the only guy that was really drawing someone at the lower waist was dela hoy and the executioner is obviously modeled on tyson in a lot of ways right there like hasn't been knocked out in 28 professional fights and i saw him in the gold honestly they could have just cast tyson could attempt

Speaker 2 they i always like it that's i have something later on but like i always like it in these movies where they go with actual fighters this role is a little bit maybe too much because then you got to act.

Speaker 2 He's got some real scenes with Cage. Yeah.
But like when they get like a real fighter, somebody

Speaker 2 Rams could he could have done it. He could have been a boxer in Undisputed.

Speaker 1 He could have kicked the tires, maybe called Wesley Snipes his agent, being like, too small of a role for Wesley. 98?

Speaker 2 Too small of a role for Wesley. In the late 90s? Slayed.
Same year. Yeah.
Too small of a role for Wesley. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Craig, you still have your flex category or now?

Speaker 2 A lot were swiped. I was going to bring up Lincoln Tyler.
I got the Elizabeth shoe for Gougino. Also, like, why did she have to wear that wig and dress? Why didn't she dress super understated?

Speaker 2 I don't understand why she looked like that. That makes no sense to me.
Yeah, she could have worn like a hat and a brown wig. Baseball hat.
It doesn't make sense at all.

Speaker 2 This one might not go over well. I don't know about the title of this movie.
I don't think it has anything to do with the movie. I feel like Snake Eyes.
is more of a casino term.

Speaker 2 There's no dice in the movie. It's about boxing.
I just thought snake eyes didn't make any sense. I feel like we could have had a better title.
Call it fight night. Well, fight night.

Speaker 2 It's a double entendre. It's a good title.
Double Entendre because it's like

Speaker 2 Sineise wins. No, but Sinees is the snake.
Like, he's the one who you think he's one thing, but he's actually the opposite.

Speaker 1 And they shed the title.

Speaker 2 He's luring you into his trap and he's a predator. Everybody loses.
Everybody comes up snake-eyes. Like, the house always wins.
It's like, well, who is the house? Like, there wasn't, there's no real.

Speaker 2 Casino gambling. Who is the missile defense system, which eventually gets pushed forward, which we learned about? So Gilbert Powell, who is at the seat of power, wins as power always does.

Speaker 2 That's the house. So I said I don't think it would go over well.
Get your hit out of your ass, Craig. I understand.
Craig, I like stay woke. I like when Craig says.
So, what's a good title then?

Speaker 2 Fight Night. Oh, you said you did say Fight Night.
Fight Night's good. Fight Night works.
Everybody's fighting. Their own battle.
Sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Apex Mountain for Cage. No.
De Palma. No.

Speaker 1 Fixed boxing movies.

Speaker 2 Dickstown.

Speaker 2 Ooh.

Speaker 2 Rispoli. Rispoli, yes.
I have a Rispoli.

Speaker 1 Carla, no.

Speaker 1 Atlantic City as a viable destination for a movie like this. Yes.

Speaker 2 Now, I think the answer to that is the movie Atlantic City, the Louis Maul movie, with Burt Lancaster, Susan Sarandon, which is an amazing movie. But this would be number two for me.

Speaker 1 You know that movie?

Speaker 2 Never saw it.

Speaker 1 That's a Throw Your Life Away Susan Sarandon performance.

Speaker 2 What era are we talking about?

Speaker 1 1981? Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's her Throw Your Life Away era. For sure.
She's very attractive in their song.

Speaker 1 That's another movie that's gone. That's one of those 80s, 90s movies.
There's no record.

Speaker 2 older guy character piece.

Speaker 1 No, it's like gone.

Speaker 2 Like, oh, people won't watch it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. No, I think it's like doesn't exist.

Speaker 1 I think it's one of those that's just out.

Speaker 2 I have thoughts about the older guy character piece. I love those movies.
I love them. I love a movie where it's like, this guy's 63, but they won't slip through his fingers because the older guys.

Speaker 2 They want to be too young. They want to be too young.
This is the problem. You know, Criterion, the, the,

Speaker 1 the, the streaming app, which is really good. And every month they change the movies, and they'll have some that haven't been streaming for a while.

Speaker 2 Their programming is amazing on that service.

Speaker 1 Them and AMC are the only ones left that would have a movie like Atlantic City, but for the most part, they're just gone.

Speaker 1 And I don't know whether it's like a rights thing or, but it's really frustrating, especially for this show, because there's movies we can't do because they don't exist.

Speaker 1 Revenge of the nerds is gone.

Speaker 2 Do you know, like, this is interesting that we're talking about this? Like a month ago, like, I'm at the crib and I was just like, I want to watch the Mac.

Speaker 2 You seen the Mac? Yeah. I want to watch The Mac.

Speaker 2 I could not find the Mac to watch it. Bernie Casey? No.
The Mac is the Mac is

Speaker 2 Max Julian

Speaker 2 as. That's what it was.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So, like. The closest you can come is watching them watch it in true romance.
That's what Drexel Spivey is watching on the TV, right? Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2 You see, I know I'm pretty, but I'm not pretty as a couple of titties. But like, it's.

Speaker 1 That one's gone.

Speaker 2 Yeah. The Mac.
Couldn't find the Mac. Wanted to watch The Mac.
Couldn't find the Mac. Watch.
Settle for Superfly.

Speaker 2 As always, I'll just say by physical media, you will always have access to these movies. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That is true. Some of them.

Speaker 2 Oh, Atlantic City is. You can rent it.
Mac somewhere. Great.
Recommend it. I don't know.
That's the wrong one. I bet my mom and them got it.
They got to have it in Louisiana somewhere.

Speaker 2 I know we got it somewhere.

Speaker 1 Atlantic City.

Speaker 2 Anyway. All right.
Moving on.

Speaker 1 This episode is brought to you by Coca-Cola. From the first time you turn on your Christmas lights till the last president is placed under the tree.
The holiday season is packed with iconic moments.

Speaker 1 But with every exciting minute spoken for, it can feel like they're flying by faster than Santa's sleigh.

Speaker 1 This Christmas, cherish them all with crisp, refreshing Coca-Cola, hissing, clinking, gulping, and eyeing your way through the most exciting moments the season has to offer.

Speaker 1 That's a gift in and of itself. Enjoy a Coca-Cola, refresh your holidays.

Speaker 2 Oh, Apex Mountain. How about this? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Boxing matches in non-boxing movies.

Speaker 2 In a movie that's not about boxing,

Speaker 1 I'm trying to think what else is in there.

Speaker 2 Like in a movie that's like Cub Fiction?

Speaker 2 Oh, there's no, we don't see the fight at all.

Speaker 2 Like, think about it.

Speaker 2 This movie is not about boxing. Normally, boxing matches come in movies that are specifically about boxing or about the sport.
It's a very good call. There definitely has got to be another example.

Speaker 2 There's got to be, yeah.

Speaker 1 You should prep Sean. It's going to come.

Speaker 2 Now I'm going to just be haunted when I forget to name one movie.

Speaker 1 His own criterion closet, just looking for a boxing movie.

Speaker 2 Well, there's a lot of movies in the 40s and 50s like this, right?

Speaker 2 Like the Harder They Fall is technically about the 50s version with Bogart. It's technically about fights, but it's not a fight movie, but there's a fight in it.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to, there's got to be a good example of this. I can't think of it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'll think of it about nine hours from now after the pod's already done.

Speaker 2 Uh,

Speaker 1 Stan Shaw, no,

Speaker 1 I do like Stan Shaw, he's yeah, he's awesome. Um,

Speaker 2 But a little miscast in this.

Speaker 1 Oh, Hunter. He's too old.

Speaker 1 But I think, I was trying to think what his, he's been in a lot of good stuff, but I think the number one is probably Great Santini.

Speaker 2 Oh.

Speaker 1 But he's also in this movie that doesn't exist anymore, Tough Enough, with Dennis Quaid, where Dennis Quaid's in a tough man competition.

Speaker 1 And Stan Shaw is like his, I think he's the other guy in it, but he's been around. Stan Shaw was in five boxing movies somehow.

Speaker 2 I feel like I know him better. What do I know him best? Does he have a boxing background? Because he must.
Oh, I know him him from Monster Squad. You ever seen Monster Squad?

Speaker 2 The kids,

Speaker 2 they all get together and they're going to go fight the monsters because the monsters come out of the vortex, right? And Abraham Van Helsing, he comes in at the end of the movie.

Speaker 2 But then at the end, before he comes in, they have this girl. She's supposed to have a virgin read this incantation that's going to send Dracula back to this thing.

Speaker 2 And they have one of their friends of the monsters call out. They have their sister read the incantation.

Speaker 2 And it doesn't work because it turns out she's not a virgin and that you didn't know this because you figure it's like she's like 60 this movie doesn't exist it's facts it is it's a quadratic i definitely haven't seen this like you it turns out and then they have one of their little sisters who's a little girl yeah she reads it van helsing comes back through the thing gets dracula pulls him back through the vortex they win i think shane black wrote that he did what year is that it's directed by fred decker it's like 86.

Speaker 2 all the monsters come back to this town it's dracula Wolfman, Frankenstein, creatures on the Black Lagoon. All of them.
It's perfect gateway horror.

Speaker 2 If you're eight years old and you see it, you're like, I'll watch horror movies forever.

Speaker 2 And it fucked with me because I learned about the lore of the Wolfman because they killed a Wolfman in the movie. Wolfman's got Nards.
Wolfman's Got Nards. They killed a Wolfman in the movie.

Speaker 2 And then a Wolfman goes, Oh, thank you. Because he's been released from his curse.
I felt for him.

Speaker 2 Stanshaw's in that movie.

Speaker 2 Cruise or Hanks.

Speaker 2 So, this was going to be my other hottest take, but I didn't want to step on this category. It should be Cruise and Hanks.
Cruise

Speaker 2 is Santoro, and Hanks is done. And then, when Hanks, it's revealed that Hanks is the bad guy, it's the most shocking reveal of the 90s.

Speaker 2 And this movie would have made $900 million.

Speaker 2 You leave the title wave in, you get an extra $50 million in the budget because you've got the two biggest stars of the era.

Speaker 2 And it's directed by Prian DePalma, who's just worked with Cruz on Mission Impossible, and we know it will be great in the movie. And Hanks, of course, was already in Bonfire of the Vanities.

Speaker 2 Make this movie.

Speaker 1 Couldn't you make the same argument for Cruz and Will Smith?

Speaker 2 They're not the same age.

Speaker 1 To me, you could

Speaker 1 make it.

Speaker 2 You could get away with, I think, Cruz and Hanks being the same age. If it's Cruz and Hanks, this movie is the espionage version of Interview with the Vampire.
It's like two...

Speaker 2 titans coming together to where just the fact that their names are up there together sparks a whole bunch of interest for the movie.

Speaker 1 Is there a spot for Cruz to run in this movie?

Speaker 2 Maybe he's running. Maybe he can find, maybe through the back hallways.
You can always find spots for him. Down the hotel room.
Maybe he... Oh, he gets to run down the hotel hallway.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think he would have put that in his

Speaker 1 negotiations.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's like, I read the script.

Speaker 1 When Rick's on the 35th floor,

Speaker 1 what if he's on the wrong side and has to sprint the other way?

Speaker 1 Scorsese or Spielberg. This is obviously Scorsese.
This would have been a cool Scorsese movie. Yes.
And what part would Philip Seymour have played? I think Sinise's part would have been.

Speaker 2 I wrote Gilbert Powell.

Speaker 1 Which one was that?

Speaker 2 The Donald Trump figure that John Hurd plays. Oh.

Speaker 2 When he gives the big, he's yelling at Sinice's character about all his plan and what's going to happen and how he needs the millennium to open. That's just a very PSH kind of moment in the movie.

Speaker 1 Picking nits.

Speaker 1 What do you you got, Vam?

Speaker 2 They're having a full-on party with crack before a heavyweight title fight.

Speaker 2 They're smoking crack. It's pre-fight.

Speaker 2 Now, I know that boxers get crazy, but I don't know how many times I've seen them go to the back where the fighters are getting ready, and there's a full-on model party happening in the dressing room of the boxer.

Speaker 2 where they're getting down.

Speaker 1 I think that might have actually happened during the Tyson post-jail era.

Speaker 2 Maybe. Maybe.
Before the fight.

Speaker 2 She's covered in blood and she's running through the thing. One guy stops her.
Other than that, nobody really gives a shit. It's the whole time she's covered in blood.

Speaker 2 I'm like, I'm trying to think of any time I've ever seen someone, even with a bloody nose. You're like, hey, man, I don't know if you know, but your nose is bleeding.
She's got blood all over.

Speaker 2 Nobody gives it. You wanted a cop to set her aside, full body cavity search.
That's what you wanted. Full search.

Speaker 2 And why don't you get out of those bloody clothes?

Speaker 2 Those are the types of movies I like.

Speaker 2 He's running security, Garrison Isa's friend. Garrison East is running security.

Speaker 2 He, however, gets his boy tickets to the fight, and there's been no security screening of any kind. He just chills right there with the Secretary of Defense.

Speaker 2 I'm like, is there no lyric of the lyric or no piece of dialogue where you go, hey man, I'm glad that you guys put me through this extensive security search where now I get to chill and sit right next to the Secretary of Defense, all of that stuff.

Speaker 2 None of that happened. It's just, I'm the bodyguard for the Secretary of Defense.
Hey, my friend, come to the fight. I don't think that it works that way.
I don't know why it popped in my head.

Speaker 2 Another thing is. Wow.

Speaker 1 You're really bringing it to the table this week.

Speaker 2 Just one more time. Just stake eyes in it up.

Speaker 2 These are some slightly high BMI heavyweights. Now, I am not in any way.

Speaker 1 I thought the same thing. I'm not in any way.
This looks like an ESPN Friday Night Fights fight.

Speaker 2 If you guys look at me, I'm not in any way shaming anyone. I'm just saying this is a two heavyweights fighting that in the 90s, this wasn't the heavyweights.

Speaker 2 It was Lewis and Tyson and Holy Phil and all of that. Razor Ruddock.
Razor Ruddick. You know, you had maybe a couple of guys, but these are some high BMI heavyweights.
That's it. That's all of them.

Speaker 2 What'd you have, Sean?

Speaker 2 Well, I mentioned already that Carla Gugino's plan is incoherent.

Speaker 2 Craig also points out that she's dressed like Marilyn Monroe in an attempt to get the attention of the Secretary of Defense at a fight.

Speaker 2 But then her whole intention is to be a whistleblower to have this whole plan destroyed. And then so she would put herself out of work in theory.

Speaker 2 He doesn't need to get her attention. He invited her theoretically.

Speaker 1 More importantly, we have fucking email in 1998.

Speaker 1 Send him an email.

Speaker 2 She said she wanted to deliver it by hand because I think she didn't want to get. No, she

Speaker 2 has emails. There's specifically some mention in this movie somewhere of an email that was sent.

Speaker 1 But it was a mention that was said in a way where email was still kind of new and it seemed conceivable she wouldn't be able to get an email to him.

Speaker 2 No, but she says something in the movie about either she sent an email or there was an email or something in the movie.

Speaker 1 I feel like she could have gone up to him before the fight versus during the fight. Right.

Speaker 2 Rather than during the fight. Maybe given it to him.
When every camera's on him,

Speaker 2 everything is on him. Didn't she just have also gone to the press?

Speaker 2 In theory, yes. Probably worried about her life.
Although, because he was being applauded, maybe he was a beloved sec death.

Speaker 2 Right. You know,

Speaker 2 he could have been a hero.

Speaker 1 I have a really stealth boxing nitpick. The crowd is just too energetic and into it and upset in the first minute of the fight.

Speaker 1 They're just booing because there's not enough action.

Speaker 2 No crowd has ever been knockdowns in the first round.

Speaker 1 But initially, they're booing because there's not action yet. And it's like the fight just started.
That never happened.

Speaker 2 Can we talk about Jose Pacifico Ruiz for a moment?

Speaker 2 So I didn't know where to put him. I don't know if he should have been in overacting.
I don't know if he should have been weak link. I don't know if his characters are.

Speaker 1 He might be in a new category.

Speaker 2 It might be the Jose Pacifico Ruiz worst sports movie character. First of all, you know, I'm sure he was a wonderful boxer.
His acting is abominable. Like he is absolutely terrible in this movie.

Speaker 2 Also, when Stanshot, he really is awful. He's so bad.
He's mugging in the camera.

Speaker 1 His name sucks.

Speaker 2 Jose Pacifico Ruiz.

Speaker 2 If we're to believe what tyler lincoln says this guy was also on the take but he's up the plan because he doesn't know how to box like what exactly is going on where he he pulls back on the phantom punch he doesn't he doesn't go for the kill when he's supposed to he's kind of jabbing him you know what you know what he's describing and he's talking

Speaker 2 yeah he's talking too much

Speaker 2 he's losing sight of what the job is to do do you think he even knows that there is a job isn't it clear that he's a he's supposed to know when he hears the sign two

Speaker 1 yeah i think they're both they're both in on it right i think they're both in on it i could be wrong it's terrible grip put push on uh here's my biggest nitpick why isn't carla wearing contact lenses it's 1998 it's like if i lose these glasses i just become mr magoo

Speaker 2 like you have a job working for a defense you know or you're a weapons analyst you can't put in some contacts there is really there is one really funny mr magoo style Pratt fall moment, though, where she comes out of the bathroom after she's cleaned herself up and she's walking back into the arena and she bumps into the wall and she like looks at the wall because she can't see because she can't.

Speaker 1 It's like a nice reminder of the fact that she's also, if she was that blind, the glasses would be way thicker.

Speaker 1 And I say this as somebody who's blind and I've never had a pair of glasses that those look like reading glasses.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, come on.

Speaker 2 Contact glasses? A plus. Love them.
Where would I be without them?

Speaker 3 Um,

Speaker 1 the actual, uh, oh, nobody notices the heavyweight champ punching out a cop. That one jumped out to me, and then obviously, Carla making a move on Nick at the end.
Where does that come from?

Speaker 1 They have no sexual attention the whole movie, and she's batting her eyelashes and being cute and being like, Maybe you should look me up sometime. It's like, what is happening? They did that.

Speaker 1 This guy's a loser scumbag.

Speaker 2 He does make a move on her earlier in the movie when he sits her down before it gets real and he learns that his friend has betrayed him. But so there's some indication that he wants to he's down.

Speaker 2 The only 90s movie that had the sense to take out the underlying sexual energy between the man and the woman was the Pelican Brief. Yes.

Speaker 2 Because America's racist, right? That's part of it. Yeah.
And that's where the sense came from.

Speaker 1 Missing

Speaker 1 a major chunk of that movie.

Speaker 2 Like, that's the only movie that was like, you know what? You think they showed full penetration in that scene that they cut up?

Speaker 2 I think they Derby Shock had a world route. I think they should have gone with the Pelican Briefs.
Ayo.

Speaker 2 Like you make that movie, right? I'm sure they haven't come out with that. But this movie has a porn parody.

Speaker 2 They definitely could. And so, like, but everything else, they just had to do it.
Like,

Speaker 2 they had to do it. They had to make the people have some type of energy.
They always had to do it. I guess they didn't do it in.

Speaker 2 Didn't they take it out of

Speaker 2 You Can't Handle the Truth? A few good men. Yeah.
Yeah. They took it out of that one, too.
Joe.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Joe doesn't get it.

Speaker 1 She was with the galactically stupid.

Speaker 2 With the galactically stupid.

Speaker 1 Sequel, prequel, Prestige TV, All Black Caster, Untouchable.

Speaker 1 Prestige TV, maybe. I don't know.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 So defeated. No, I just.

Speaker 2 I've never took with this. I've just never seen you be so defeated by your own category.

Speaker 1 I think this movie's fun.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't do.

Speaker 2 I think a prequel about Rick and Kevin growing up is kind of fun. Okay.
And then we see Kevin's dark side, but Rick can't see it because he's kind of a scumbag.

Speaker 1 Is this movie better with Wayne Jackets, Danny Treyo, Mad Dog, Russo, Doris Burke, Buffalo Bill, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilfred Brimley in the firm?

Speaker 1 I have a new

Speaker 1 combo for this.

Speaker 1 Joe Davis and John Smoltz announcing the fight.

Speaker 1 And there's another knockdown, John. Whoop, gunshots.
The Secretary of Defense is down. And John Smoltz goes, Yeah, we've never seen this before, Joe.

Speaker 1 This is pretty crazy.

Speaker 1 That's all I got.

Speaker 2 Is the idea there

Speaker 2 that they don't have enough energy?

Speaker 1 Yes, that's the idea, Sean.

Speaker 2 But if, but if Shohei Otani was present at that fight, they would have cut to him and said, There he is!

Speaker 2 The greatest man in the history of attending fights!

Speaker 2 Otani again!

Speaker 2 Joe Davis, that bastard. If it's a Dodgers moment, he really gets his dander up.
Poor Blue Jays fans. I should have threw that.

Speaker 1 I put in something about them bringing up the Joe Carter home run.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 During the Lincoln Tyler fight.

Speaker 2 Fucking just stop bringing the fucking shit up, man. Joe Carter.

Speaker 2 It's like history literally.

Speaker 2 Yeah, now it's tough. A moment for Blue Jays fans, that was brutal.
Brutal.

Speaker 1 That was brutal. And Lincoln Tyler is down again.

Speaker 1 He sure is, Joe.

Speaker 2 I do think I can't adequately do this because Chris is not here, but I do think Byron Mayo would be incredible in this movie. He was like, Kevin Dunn, my old friend, meet my friend Serena.

Speaker 2 Oh, in the backstage. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That would have been good.

Speaker 1 What was Carla's name in this movie?

Speaker 1 I forget.

Speaker 2 Carla.

Speaker 1 I noticed you lost your top.

Speaker 1 Let me take you to the gift shop.

Speaker 2 Carla, I've got air conditioning.

Speaker 1 Probably going to answer more questions.

Speaker 1 I just don't know why all bad guys don't use a silencer. What's the downside?

Speaker 2 Great note. It is good note.
Incredible note.

Speaker 1 Is it heavier? What is it, Craig?

Speaker 2 It's bigger, bulkier, harder to pack. It's longer.
Harder to conceal. Yeah.
That's true.

Speaker 1 Just like if I was ever an assassin, silencer every time.

Speaker 2 But I love a scene when like two assassins are getting ready to go to work and they start screwing the silencer on. I'm like, this is, that's movie magic.

Speaker 2 Because you're getting ready for, to do it, action's going to happen. Yeah.
Yeah. Um, how deliberate they are.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Fan duel line for Lincoln Tyler versus Jose Pacifico Ruiz heading into the fight. Yeah.
Like Tyler minus 650?

Speaker 2 They said he was 10 to 1. Oh, they did? 10 to 1 favorite.
Ruiz was.

Speaker 2 That was answerable. Well, that's why he was getting his.

Speaker 2 He was so fucked up about the bet. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 What piece of memorability would you want or not want from this movie? I could offer you the bloody $100 bill.

Speaker 1 I could offer you Nick Cage's jacket, which you could wear.

Speaker 1 I could offer you an actual poster of the fight

Speaker 1 to frame that. What would you take?

Speaker 2 I have another answer. Go.

Speaker 2 The ruby red ring, which is revealed in the concrete slab at the end of the movie, at the end of the credits.

Speaker 1 Oh, good point.

Speaker 2 Which is the ring that Serena, the redhead, wears. And she's killed, and then they're pushed off into

Speaker 2 the concrete slab. That's like, there's all this, this big sequence where after he kills them, we see them getting loaded up into this truck, which is really a weird way to dispense.

Speaker 2 And the two dead bodies are inside of that concrete slab. So you'd want the Ruby Red, right? Yes.
Chip that out.

Speaker 1 Coach Fince.gov, best life lesson. I'm naive.
There's worse things to be.

Speaker 1 I guess that would be it. Don't be naive.
Best double feature choice. Blowout.

Speaker 2 Face off. I'll put face off.

Speaker 2 I'll put face off. Just run it.
Run it right back. Nick.
What do you have? I have five nominees. Domino.
You tell me which one you like. Okay, cool.
Dressed to kill.

Speaker 2 JFK.

Speaker 2 In the line of fire.

Speaker 2 No Way Out.

Speaker 2 LA Confidential.

Speaker 2 Which of those do you like? No Way Out.

Speaker 2 It's pretty close totally, right? Where you're like, this is a sleazy crime drama set in the world of high power politics.

Speaker 1 Craig Ruin, No Way Out, though. Why? He said Sean Young wasn't hot.

Speaker 2 I remember that.

Speaker 2 Stand by. This is one of the greatest controversy.

Speaker 2 like it's like one of the classic generation

Speaker 2 because the poll would have to be

Speaker 2 it sends me to like in like an actual gen z can't participate like we need like oh right we need like geo-blocking but for a generation only boomers get to vote yeah

Speaker 2 it like sends me to a vote this time it should be in america too only millennials and boomers get to vote now here's the poll watch the movie does she do it for you i'm winning that but i okay i mean maybe amongst your generation the ones that shy away no i'll take it across the board i'll take your generation down.

Speaker 2 It's like, but dude,

Speaker 2 that's a tough one, bro. Also, remember, she is Finkel to me.
She is Einhorn. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's a whole different relationship with her. That's fair.
It's a stellar performance. That's fair.
But also, she's not good in it.

Speaker 1 Who won Snake Eyes for you guys?

Speaker 2 I don't think Cage has ever lost a movie he starred in. Oh, interesting.
I don't. A movie where he's the guy.

Speaker 2 Now, that would have been a great hottest take. He has this overwhelming energy that, like, I don't think he's ever lost a movie he started.
I had De Palma.

Speaker 1 I mean, you know what? I thought about Carlo. I did test drive Carla, but I think it's De Palma.

Speaker 2 Carla's bro.

Speaker 1 Well, because it's De Palma's last

Speaker 1 one that actually made some money and was memorable.

Speaker 2 And that was my other probably unanswerable question is, did De Palma quit or get fired from the role of major director? Like, what actually happened? Let's look good.

Speaker 2 He makes Mission Impossible, massive sensation. He makes this movie, makes money.
It's a well-known movie. We're doing it on the show right now.

Speaker 2 And then what happened?

Speaker 1 It's his late 50s, and directors usually have a run of somewhere between seven and 25 years, unless you're Scorsese

Speaker 2 or Spielberg. I think he turned 50 when he made this movie.

Speaker 1 It said he was 56 in this. 56.

Speaker 2 Okay, right. 56, 57.
Yeah. So we talked about Mission to Mars.

Speaker 2 Bad movie. That bombing.
You think that killed it? That's a bad movie. That was a Disney swing.
Yeah. Right.
And you never should have made that movie.

Speaker 2 And then he comes back and Finfatale was like a movie that people enjoyed, but it lost money and it was sort of controversial. Yeah.
And a little bit off-kilt. It was like a Euro sensation.

Speaker 2 Right, right. And then after that, he kind of just.
I don't know. It's like Black Dahlia, redacted.

Speaker 2 What was the movie that made McAdams?

Speaker 1 That one's weird. Passion.
Yeah. Office.

Speaker 2 I think it's in that. Yeah, it's cool.
You ever seen that? It's very classic to Palma, really kinky.

Speaker 1 It's a tuby classic.

Speaker 1 But yeah, he's

Speaker 2 almost like he, I think maybe he threw his chips in because he didn't go back to do that. Quote about him saying it's the internet's time now.
Movies are over in 1998 is chilling.

Speaker 1 He's pretty lit. And I think there were some things that happened too.

Speaker 1 There are things that happened to him in the 70s and 80s

Speaker 1 that I think there were some things ingested and smoked and done.

Speaker 2 God bless him. The

Speaker 2 Noel Bomback, Jake Paltrow documentary about him is one of the most pleasurable things i've i've ever seen it i can put that on at any time of day and enjoy myself or it's just him talking about what a genius he is making his movies him

Speaker 1 and uh and schrader

Speaker 1 well i guess and freedkin too three guys who were like is that recorder on

Speaker 2 just a fireblower they could give a craig let's hear it what'd you think loved it every time i watch him every time i watch a de palma movie i'm like man i loved this movie i gotta watch every depalma film because i think i've only seen the ones that we've covered on the show i love body double uh yeah i just like in general when great directors make smaller movies like this even though the budget was bigger whatever the story feels small and kind of random or insignificant and i just think it's more enjoyable the stakes feel lower that's the end of the rewatchables sure uh thanks to craig ruback for producing thanks to gahav who passed out an hour ago under the sound thanks to ronic as usual

Speaker 2 And we'll be back next week.

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Speaker 5 Arc Raiders, a multiplayer extraction adventure video game. Buy now for PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X and S, and PC.
Rated T for Team.