3 Steps To Building A Healthy Relationship

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Speaker 20 A lot of the things you've done in reality TV, right?

Speaker 14 Bachelorette, Bachelor.

Speaker 20 Now, your podcast is a top podcast, really sharing like modern dating wisdom from the mistakes you've made and the lessons you've learned and all this different stuff.

Speaker 7 If you could go back to you know 20-year-old you, when you were a star

Speaker 22 track athlete in college and high school and things like that,

Speaker 21 and you could

Speaker 7 give him three pieces of advice

Speaker 24 on how to

Speaker 24 really become a great man and to attract a great partner for yourself.

Speaker 7 What would you say to him with that advice?

Speaker 21 It's a great question. I'd sit him down probably.
And first and foremost,

Speaker 21 I would remind him that sometimes feeling in love. doesn't always mean that you are in love and that sometimes feelings can be misleading.

Speaker 21 You know, like you can feel that spark, you know, or seduction and things like that.

Speaker 21 And that, that you're pining over someone and that the intensity of that excitement all can be misconstrued into love and things like that.

Speaker 21 I'd also remind him that there's no benefit to being a love martyr.

Speaker 21 What do you mean by that? It's actually something I was just doing

Speaker 21 another friend's podcast and it kind of came up because, you know, my background, I grew up,

Speaker 21 I had a great childhood, you know, loving parents, Family of, I have 10 brothers and sisters. I'm the second oldest of 11 kids.
Wow. Parents are still married today.
They were a great example of love.

Speaker 21 We grew up Catholic. And so there's a little bit, I don't know how familiar you are with Catholicism, but there's a little kind of martyr in the whole thing.

Speaker 21 And so I think that kind of passed down to us kids. But, you know, what I learned from my parents was that

Speaker 21 love is special,

Speaker 21 but it's also, you know, relationships can be really hard. And, you know, then you grow up watching rom-coms and TV shows.

Speaker 21 Disney. Yeah.
And movies like the notebook, who have all these high stakes and quite frankly, a lot of toxicity in relationships.

Speaker 21 But those types of shows teach you that none of it really matters as long as you end up together.

Speaker 21 And in reality, that's not really the case. But as a young man, I kind of took those lessons and thought to myself, well, love is hard, you know, special and it's hard.

Speaker 21 So you just have to fight through, you know, all these challenges. And yes, every relationship has its challenges and you, you know, you have to work through stuff.

Speaker 21 But I kind of turned into a bit of a love martyr. You know, I got to the point where it didn't really even matter if I liked them.

Speaker 21 You know, it's like I didn't ask myself questions like, do I enjoy their company? Do they enjoy mine? Are we even compatible?

Speaker 21 It was more like, well, I'll fight for the relationship so much that the more I fought for it, the more special I thought that relationship was and what that meant.

Speaker 24 Even if they weren't the right match.

Speaker 21 Even if I wasn't the right match. I mean, there were, you know, my first girlfriend, God bless her.
I met her when I was 18. We broke up so many times.
Usually it was her breaking up with me. And

Speaker 21 every time she broke up with me, it was like I had to fight for the relationship because, you know, again, love is special.

Speaker 21 And whether it was my parents telling me that love is special, but you have to work hard on things, you know, I had the right intentions, so to speak, but like it was a bit misguided.

Speaker 21 And I think through that, I spent a lot of energy on people who, quite frankly, it just wasn't the right fit. But I kind of misconstrued my intentions, so to speak,

Speaker 21 and, you know, kind of became that love martyr. And I think a lot of people are, you know, sometimes where

Speaker 21 you kind of get stuck in these relationships and you think about things like, well,

Speaker 21 I can't break up now. We've been dating for so long.
As if like

Speaker 21 so invested and there would be no value to these past past three years of our relationship if we end the relationship so i have to keep fighting and if i fight i will somehow be rewarded and my love will be special because the worse it is the harder i have to fight and if the harder i fight the more special it is and it's such a misconstrued toxic way to look at relationships but

Speaker 21 I very much did. So

Speaker 21 I would tell him not to be a love martyr. Okay.

Speaker 19 And the third thing,

Speaker 21 I would tell him to be careful about listening to your ego over your heart, you know, and I think that's something I did a lot of. And I confused

Speaker 21 validation with love,

Speaker 21 you know, and I think we do that a lot. So when our ego takes over, and I think, you know, sometimes I talk a lot about ego on my show,

Speaker 21 almost to the point where I feel like it gets like a bad rep in a way. But it's not really true.

Speaker 21 You know, I don't know if you're like a comic book fan at all, but I kind of equate ego to like a superpower. Okay.

Speaker 21 A superpower that, like, if you like an X-Men, are you familiar with like the Phoenix character?

Speaker 25 Right.

Speaker 21 She's so powerful that she can't control her own power to the point where it's

Speaker 26 right.

Speaker 21 And that's kind of like your ego. Your ego can be a superpower.
Your ego is what gives you the confidence to like act as if. You know, you had to have some kind of ego to do.
what you've done, right?

Speaker 21 To say, I could do this. Why not me? You know, that takes a little bit of ego and that confidence.
And that allows you to step up the plate to, you you know

Speaker 21 face impossible challenges but if you can't control that ego if you can't you know be mindful of you know when it creeps up it can really lead you down dark paths you know your ego will tell you that you have to change the wrong thing chase the wrong thing because again your ego is like saying well you're not good enough that you know that person who won't give you respect who doesn't make you a priority who treats you with this respect.

Speaker 21 Well, if you can get them to change their behavior for you, even though they've done all this with other,

Speaker 21 all these other people, you'll be special. Wow.

Speaker 21 And chasing that feeling of being special because my ego thought, well, you know, because I was a, you know, I played sports, I was a competitive guy, you know, that challenge, you know, that fix of the recognition of, oh, you, you did this.

Speaker 21 I can't believe you did this. You got that, you know, that f ⁇ boy or whatever to like, to settle for you.

Speaker 21 Hey, no one else could do that, but you got to do that. And that must make you special.
And so that chasing the validation and

Speaker 21 not being mindful of when your ego was telling you to chase the wrong thing

Speaker 21 got me into a lot of trouble. And I spent a lot of time not accepting.

Speaker 21 relationships that weren't really healthy for me. And I wasted a lot of my time, you know, following my ego and not my heart.

Speaker 22 Man.

Speaker 7 You mentioned this concept of validation.

Speaker 17 What is the difference between validation and love?

Speaker 21 Well, I feel like love is more about acceptance of

Speaker 21 yourself and the people you do love. I mean, to truly love someone is accepting who they are, both for their strengths and their weaknesses.
And it's when you really love their weaknesses.

Speaker 21 You know, you don't necessarily have to accept their weaknesses all the time. You can always challenge the people you love to become a better person.

Speaker 21 But at the end of the day, you got to go to a point where you them for

Speaker 21 everything that they are. And, you know, not to sound cheesy or cliche, but that starts with yourself.
You know, validation is almost the opposite.

Speaker 21 It's quite honestly, it seems like the little opposite when I think about it. It's like it's that feeling of

Speaker 21 needing outside praise, you know, that recognition and

Speaker 21 needing that to feel enough, you know, rather than just knowing that you are. And so when you're chasing validation relationships,

Speaker 21 you're suggesting that you, and I felt this when I was younger. I felt like I'm not going to be a complete person until I find that right person.
Really?

Speaker 21 You know, my partner, you know, and until then.

Speaker 7 Why did you feel that?

Speaker 21 I think it was because I, you know, again, for as great as my parents were, I think, you know, between seeing their love and

Speaker 21 getting caught up in the, all the rom-coms and the romance of love, I think I just kind of had a misconstrue.

Speaker 21 It was, it was, I felt like it was so important. You know, you got to find that person, start a family and things like that.

Speaker 21 That I thought to myself, well, if I, until I find that, I'm, I'm not a finished product. My interest.
You know, and

Speaker 21 so, you know, when I started looking for love, then it became, you know, looking for the person who I thought made me, you know, a better person. And people will say that too.

Speaker 19 It's like, what are you looking for?

Speaker 21 Oh, I'm looking for someone to make me a better person. Well,

Speaker 21 I learned that was not what you should be looking for.

Speaker 21 You can, I hope everyone gets to find someone like I feel like I found someone that helps you become your best version of yourself, but no one's going to make you a better person.

Speaker 25 Right.

Speaker 14 That's a lot of responsibility and weight.

Speaker 21 A lot of weight. Yeah.
And, you know, how do they look next to you and things like that? And all those things that at the end of the day don't really matter.

Speaker 21 And so love is, again, just acceptance of what you have and the people you're with and loving

Speaker 21 your person for their strengths and their weaknesses. And, you know, I hope I answered your question.

Speaker 5 That's beautiful. Yeah.

Speaker 7 I'm curious, what would you say are a few key things that anyone going through a horrible breakup can do to overcome that with more grace?

Speaker 21 I would say

Speaker 21 the pain doesn't mean they were special.

Speaker 16 Ooh.

Speaker 11 Wow.

Speaker 21 Because I used to do that. You know, the more hurt I felt over a breakup,

Speaker 21 the more my, I don't know if it was my ego or something internally would tell me, well, that must mean what I lost was very special.

Speaker 25 Interesting.

Speaker 21 And that means I have to fight for it.

Speaker 7 Oh, man. What does the pain mean most of the time?

Speaker 21 The pain might mean that

Speaker 21 it was meaningful.

Speaker 21 If you're in any type of long-term relationship, you clearly shared meaningful moments. They take up a lot of your time.
You probably met their family. They met yours.

Speaker 21 You've developed some really great memories together.

Speaker 21 You probably made a lot of promises about the future with one another that now

Speaker 21 if the relationship ended, you have to think about all the promises you made that aren't going to happen. And that can be very painful.
That it's the loss.

Speaker 21 It's the loss of something that, you know, at one point you held dear in your heart.

Speaker 21 And I think that's where the pain comes from because even a relationship that is unhealthy or toxic and sadly, even sometimes abusive can still be hard to lose because

Speaker 21 you know a lot of those relationships take up so much of our energy and time and sometimes when we lose a relationship or a loved one and we lose access to them

Speaker 21 we you know you have to fill it with you know there's the loss of the feelings that you have and the literal loss of all the time that you used to spend with them well now what do you do you know the sundays that used to go to the farmer's market and the movies now it's like i don't know what to do and just filling that void you know can be very painful at first But I learned that just because I was hurting over someone doesn't necessarily mean that they were the right fit for me.

Speaker 21 That, you know, that's what was good for my heart.

Speaker 21 And I had to then focus on accepting the loss and accepting that the relationship, while meaningful for a period of time, wasn't necessarily something that was right for me. Wow.
So that would be one.

Speaker 22 What would you say to yourself when you were like eight months in deep, when you're like, I can't control my feelings and I'll never get over this and no one understands me.

Speaker 7 If you were coaching yourself, what would you say?

Speaker 21 I would probably tell you the stuff to get over myself.

Speaker 21 Yeah, because most people out there probably can understand heartbreak, you know? And I think that was my ego.

Speaker 21 You know, when I was my first love, me and my buddy, my first girlfriend, we met her and her girlfriend at the same time, you know, very kind of serendipitously.

Speaker 21 And I remember having a thought with my first girlfriend. And I think a lot of young people have thoughts like this where it's like, we're kind of the most in love couple.

Speaker 21 We're more in love than with that. Because that's that ego, wanting to be like, wanting your love.
Everyone wants their love to feel and be special.

Speaker 21 And I think the intentions are pure, but it can kind of turn a little toxic. And so, yeah, I would probably just tell myself to maybe, you know.

Speaker 21 get over myself a little bit and recognize that I'm not the only one who's ever experienced heartbreak. I'm not the only one who's ever been cheated on.
You're not alone.

Speaker 21 You know, if you have been heartbroken, the good news is you're not alone. And unfortunately, infidelity is very commonplace in relationships now more than ever.

Speaker 21 And, you know, you are, you don't have a reason to be shamed over it. You know, it's not you.
It's literally them. You know, there's maybe some things you can learn from.
from it.

Speaker 21 There's always, you can always learn from misfortune and challenges, but I would stop making myself more of a martyr than I need to be, you know, because again, I think the way I dealt with pain back then was to try, that was my ego saying, all right, well, if you can't have the relationship, at least the pain we're feeling right now, we'll find a way to make ourselves feel special about it.

Speaker 21 So because you're hurting more than anyone else, then you are, that's, you're, you're willing to sacrifice and be sad for love.

Speaker 21 And, and somehow that made me feel, I guess, in a way, special, even though it also simultaneously made me feel very down and it kept me stuck.

Speaker 21 And I think that's what a lot of people experience in breakups is they stay stuck much longer than they need to.

Speaker 24 They stay stuck in the past.

Speaker 21 Yeah. And it can be scary because it's like, again,

Speaker 21 the longer the relationship, the more memories we have. And the future can be, you know, the uncertainty is very scary.

Speaker 21 And so we don't want to face our fears. And so we'll hold on to the past.
And like I said before, sometimes we'll hold on to the pain because it's the last thing we have left. Yeah.

Speaker 26 Wow.

Speaker 7 What's the best relationship advice you've ever received?

Speaker 21 I honestly think it was from Dr. Wayne Dwyer was what other people think of you is none of your business.

Speaker 16 Wow.

Speaker 21 And even in relationships sometimes, you know, always kind of worrying about,

Speaker 21 you know, it's kind of, that's their opinion. And that really honestly helped me with.
my relationships on reality TV and handling my relationships with fans and things like that.

Speaker 21 I always think of relationships more than just romantic ones.

Speaker 23 Because you got criticized a ton.

Speaker 21 A ton. And it really, it edits who you are.
You know, the more you seek out the opinions of others about yourself, the more it changes you.

Speaker 21 You know, then you're not acting on what you think deep down you should do or, you know, because of what your character is and things like that.

Speaker 21 It's just like, well, you think this and you think that. And, you know, I hear you there.
Yep. No, that's a fair point.
And I guess, you know, I see what you're saying there.

Speaker 21 So like, all right, let me do a version of what I guess I I think you're all saying. Wow.
And I think that's kind of how you become someone that doesn't feel like it's you.

Speaker 21 And so, yeah, those other opinions are just, those are their opinions. And that's their business.
And it's none of mine. And that's something I've constantly tried to remind myself of.

Speaker 7 What's your thoughts on if people should be public with their relationship or they should be posting that they're getting in a relationship with this person and all the date nights they're doing and all the conversations they're having.

Speaker 20 And should they be doing it on TV and doing it on social media?

Speaker 7 Do you think that creates a healthy long-term relationship or is that setting up a disaster?

Speaker 21 More the latter. I think

Speaker 21 it's a risk. Yeah, I don't see any real benefit for the relationship.

Speaker 21 And Nali and I, you know, we post about a relationship and she's on the vile files

Speaker 21 a lot more now. And, you know, we like to share some things about our relationship.
We We certainly don't share everything.

Speaker 21 I always say like Instagram is not a love language.

Speaker 14 But it is for a lot of people.

Speaker 21 It is for a lot of people. Yeah.

Speaker 16 A lot of women love being posted on Instagram.

Speaker 4 Why is that?

Speaker 21 I think it's the validation. I think we just are a society that really seeks out the approval of others.

Speaker 14 You know?

Speaker 24 What is the biggest risk of a woman wanting their man to post about them consistently on Instagram?

Speaker 21 Well, again, because you are increasing the chances of you caring a lot about what other people think

Speaker 21 because you're reading all these comments. Oh, you guys look so good together.
You guys, oh, what is that? And I always say the, in my experience in the public eye and in social media,

Speaker 21 that the positive comments are more dangerous than the negative one.

Speaker 16 Really? Why?

Speaker 21 Because it's easy to dismiss negative ones. Like, they don't owe me.

Speaker 25 Screw that. F ⁇ that, whatever.

Speaker 21 But, you know, after a few heart-eyed emojis and, oh my God, you're the cutest couple of all time, you know, whether they're positive or negative, they're all strangers. Right.
They don't know me.

Speaker 21 They have no insight into my life.

Speaker 21 They, they just, they, they, they can make guesses from what they've seen or whatever, but they don't, they don't really know me.

Speaker 21 But if I'm going to read a bunch of positive comments

Speaker 21 and take them to heart. Well, then my subconscious is going to say, well, that's, you're going to, well, you can't pick and choose.
You have to take the negative ones to heart as well.

Speaker 21 So by getting the positive ones and you read them, you're like, oh, yep, nope, I'm awesome. I'm awesome.
I'm awesome. I'm awesome.

Speaker 21 And then you're like, well, these are very valid comments because, you know, I am awesome.

Speaker 21 And then all of a sudden that negative one hits you. And

Speaker 21 even if you say, oh, they don't know me, you've spent all this time not saying that about the positive ones. They don't know you either.
They don't know you either.

Speaker 21 But now your subconscious brain is taking it all to heart. And so that's why I always feel like the positive ones are setting you up for the negative comments.

Speaker 24 Interesting.

Speaker 21 It's really dangerous that way.

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Speaker 7 If there's a woman coming to you asking for advice saying, you know, I've been in a relationship for six months with this guy and he hasn't posted about me yet on social media, on Instagram.

Speaker 24 And I really want him to.

Speaker 7 What should I say to get him to post about me? Or how can I do it to get him to post about me? What advice would you give that woman about this conversation?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 21 despite me saying it can be a risk, I do think there's something to be said about, you know, being with someone who gives you the sense that they're proud to be with you, that they...

Speaker 21 want to share their relationship, you know, everything is about balance. And listen, we live in a world where a lot of things are online.
So, you know, I extremes scare me on anything.

Speaker 21 So, if someone, I've been dating this guy for six months, everything's okay, but he refuses to post,

Speaker 16 it's a bit of a red flag. Right, right.

Speaker 18 You know, unless he's just not on social media.

Speaker 21 Yeah, that would be our first question: is like, does he ever post? Yeah, he's like, no, like, no. It's like, well, then I don't think this is an issue.

Speaker 21 If he's posting about his friends and all this stuff, and he's pretty active, and he's not posting about you, like, that's definitely a red flag.

Speaker 21 So, if it's the latter and he is an active poster and he's actively on there, I would just

Speaker 21 tell him how what it would mean to you. You know, it would just mean a lot if you

Speaker 21 shared our relationship. And just, I just want, I want to feel like you're proud of our relationship.
And I think that's an okay feeling. You know,

Speaker 21 I think the best thing we can do when we communicate to our loved ones is to say, like, this is how I feel about a situation. This would mean a lot.

Speaker 21 And then the big question is, you give them an opportunity to see if they're willing to make you a priority. Right.

Speaker 21 Because I think there's a lot of relationships out there where people are accepting their partners not prioritizing them and choosing to stay in the relationship more out of fear of what else might be out there or what they don't think they can find rather than feeling loved and feeling validated.

Speaker 21 It's funny, I will, you know, people will call in about relationships and they'll

Speaker 23 be frustrated with their partner.

Speaker 21 And

Speaker 21 one of my favorite questions I ask them is,

Speaker 21 what do you like or love about how they make you feel? It's so funny how a lot of times people won't have an answer to that.

Speaker 21 And

Speaker 21 it's like, oh, well, you know, like if we have fun together and like, you know, he's really smart and he's really nice with people.

Speaker 10 I'm like, that's all great.

Speaker 21 But how do you, what do you love about how they make you feel? Because what I'm hearing from you is you spend a lot of time telling me that you're, you're confused, you're often sad,

Speaker 21 you feel lonely, you know? So I'm just wondering,

Speaker 21 what about this relationship are you fighting for?

Speaker 20 Yeah, and just because someone looks good on paper doesn't mean they're good for you.

Speaker 25 Yeah.

Speaker 21 And they're, or they're not just make, they're not making, you know, what's the point of being in a relationship if they don't make you feel loved?

Speaker 16 Ooh.

Speaker 21 You know, and I think I was that person.

Speaker 21 I was in a lot of relationships where I asked myself, does this, I don't, I don't even think she likes me, you know, because I used to always prioritize chemistry over compatibility, which I think most of us do, because chemistry is sexy.

Speaker 21 It is. You know, it's fun, you know, it's gives you that spark.

Speaker 16 It's passionate. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 21 Unfortunately, chemistry is hard to trust. And chemistry can be very much manufactured.
You know,

Speaker 21 people are just naturally charismatic, you know, tall, good looking, you know, can. brighten up a room when they walk in.
Chemistry can be found because of similar interests.

Speaker 21 People who go on the bachelor have a natural chemistry because of a shared experience. Being part of the same church or community, that can create chemistry between people.

Speaker 21 But that doesn't necessarily mean love. Now,

Speaker 21 compatibility on the other hand is not as sexy, it's not as fun, but that you can trust a lot more.

Speaker 21 Do we enjoy being around each other?

Speaker 21 Natalie is the first person that I've been in a relationship with where we have a lot in common,

Speaker 21 where we're very compatible. Because I used, again, back to that love martyr.
I didn't even prioritize chemistry compatibility at all. It was like,

Speaker 21 and I was like, well, it doesn't matter. We're in love.

Speaker 21 It doesn't matter.

Speaker 25 You know, I love her and love will conquer all.

Speaker 21 But then every day it was just like, so what do you like, what do you want to eat for dinner?

Speaker 25 Like, what should we watch?

Speaker 19 It was like complete opposite.

Speaker 16 Yeah, it was like the opposite.

Speaker 21 You know, and relationships are hard enough. Yeah.
You know, even when you're super compatible and you're on the same page most of the time, it still requires sacrifice and compromise.

Speaker 21 And if you have to do that for every decision, every day, it is exhausting. Exhausting.

Speaker 21 And yeah, I just, you know,

Speaker 21 we're a society that prioritizes chemistry far too much. And we have to give compatibility a little bit more of a spotlight.

Speaker 17 You said one of the things is poor conflict resolution is one of the things that causes people to break up. You added to that as well, Matthew.

Speaker 17 Why do you think people struggle with emotional regulation, regulation, not just in life, but even heightened more in relationships? And how can someone learn to regulate their emotions

Speaker 17 in a relationship if they've been so used to reacting in fight-or-flight mode for so long? What do you think is a process they can start? I'll have you start and then we'll have you add to it, Saria.

Speaker 27 Well, I think the people that trigger us the most are the people that we're closest to. So it's hard to,

Speaker 27 you know, they, well, they uniquely know how to push our buttons as well um hopefully they don't do that on purpose but you know they they have the knowledge to be able to push our buttons but also just it's like family you know you think you've grown so much and you think you have become so kind of wise and you've healed and then you go back for Christmas with family or for the holidays

Speaker 1 within two days somebody

Speaker 27 has you feeling like a 14-year-old who's mad again.

Speaker 27 You know, it's those people that are closest to us have this unique ability to to impact us so i think it's really it's a it's really easy to have patience with a friend you know people like oh it's so much easier with my friends yeah no

Speaker 27 you don't see your friend every night of the week you see them once every couple of weeks it's like a little honeymoon every time you get together because you just you're just excited to see each other of course they don't push your buttons the same way But the person you're with every day is going to.

Speaker 27 So

Speaker 27 I think having we have to almost step back from it a little bit and go, this isn't necessarily a sign that my partner is so much worse than everybody else.

Speaker 27 It's a sign that this person is so close to me that it's the easiest place for me to get triggered. And it's probably

Speaker 27 the place I have the least patience.

Speaker 27 Because I give so much energy everywhere else in my life. I take for granted that this person is going to be there at the end of the day.

Speaker 27 You know, we go to work and we give our best energy and then we go home and whatever is left, we hand to our partner.

Speaker 27 And, you know we've reserved our patience for everyone else in our lives so I think take taking a step back and going what would it look like this is a very hard thing to do but what would it look like if I gave my partner the kind of grace or patience or understanding that I give to other people in my life that frankly probably do a lot less for me, that show up a lot less for me.

Speaker 27 What would it look like if I started showing up for them in that way? I think

Speaker 27 isn't a bad question.

Speaker 6 Interesting.

Speaker 1 What would you add to that side?

Speaker 30 I would say one of the problems with emotional dysregulation is we, as human beings, tend to select the person who enables the dysregulation rather than the person we want to be with the most.

Speaker 6 Why do we select that person more?

Speaker 30 Because they tolerate our insufferable behavior a bit more.

Speaker 30 So sometimes, and as a woman who's suffered from lots of emotional dysregulation in the past, I would find myself just seeing somebody's tolerance of my insufferable behavior as a symbol of love so sometimes people who can't regulate their emotions will look for the punching bag in their life they'll look for the person that they can be dysregulated for and that person remains committed and they see that as a signal of like love and they connect with the person who actually has weak boundaries so a combination of emotional dysregulation and selecting somebody who is tolerable who accepts the dysregulation yeah it leads to that dysregulation not being resolved i think the key question is that you with emotional dysregulation we know if we do that at work, we'll get fired.

Speaker 30 And we know that if we do that in public,

Speaker 30 we'll get arrested if we do that in public.

Speaker 30 But when we pick a partner and we make sure that that partner doesn't actually have a willingness to walk away or that partner just allows it the most, we might just exude all of our dysregulation on that one party.

Speaker 30 So it's really important when you suffer from emotional dysregulation to select a partner that still,

Speaker 30 just because they can tolerate doesn't mean they should. And they should still, and you, if you're on the receiving end, still have a threshold of how much you can and can't accept.

Speaker 30 And only when a partner or a person who's emotionally dysregulated meets somebody that they genuinely love and respect, but also has a very clear threshold of how much they can handle, does a dysregulated partner start to monitor their own reactions.

Speaker 30 But if they feel like they can get away with it, sometimes they will. So I think dysregulation can lead to selection of enablers rather than selections of compatibility.

Speaker 4 What is this quote?

Speaker 17 And I'm sure you both have heard this. If they can't accept me at my worst, they don't deserve me at my best.
What do you guys think about that saying in relationships?

Speaker 30 I used to be a big banner for that because I was a nightmare myself. So I was like, oh, I love what statement, you know.

Speaker 30 But I think if you can't respect somebody at your worst, you don't deserve them at your best.

Speaker 30 And so while you're at your worst, if you totally disrespect that person and totally crush their boundaries, you don't deserve them when they're at their best, or you don't deserve them when you're at your best.

Speaker 30 So instead of expecting somebody to tolerate your behavior respect remember you also have a duty of care to them and you should also say at my worst i don't want to put them through so much suffering at my worst i want to express myself i understand i'm not going to be perfect but does it mean i treat them as an emotional punching bag that's so i can't yeah emotionally punch on them all day long and then say well you have to deal with my emotions and then you'll get a party on your birthday like it doesn't really work that way so it's almost like a form of manipulation and i'm saying in the worst case scenario because I've been that person that had that kind of mantra, but it's actually how we treat our loved ones at our worst is a symbol of how much we respect them.

Speaker 30 And we need to try and be mindful of that because some people just can't tolerate you at your worst. It doesn't mean they don't love you.
It's just that they're not equipped for that level of

Speaker 30 emotional dysregulation.

Speaker 17 You should be able to, I mean, your worst as a child, I'm assuming you're going to scream and throw tantrums constantly, but then hopefully you learn how to develop your emotions and navigate your emotions

Speaker 18 so that you can be frustrated or have a breakdown, but not trash on someone.

Speaker 1 Yeah, not punish someone.

Speaker 17 Not punish someone and say, you're doing this to me, right?

Speaker 17 It's like learning how to, you know, maybe need to step away or maybe you're going to get loud for a moment, but you're not going to attack someone.

Speaker 30 Ask yourself, would you tolerate you at your worst? If at your worst you get abused.

Speaker 1 Right now, yeah. Yeah, yeah, right now.

Speaker 1 I would tolerate you.

Speaker 30 In the past, I wouldn't. But right now, it's fine.
But in the past, if your worst looks like emotional abuse, if it looks like infidelity, if it looks like physical abuse,

Speaker 30 would you tolerate you at your worst? And if you would, perfect, you're probably in a healthy space.

Speaker 30 If you wouldn't, what would you suggest to somebody who's going to have to, what would you say to yourself if you had to experience that?

Speaker 30 And if you would say to yourself, oh, just leave, don't tolerate that, then don't expect your partner to tolerate it anymore.

Speaker 5 Why is it so hard to leave a relationship when...

Speaker 17 After many years, when someone treats you poorly or they have dysregulation frequently, let's call it on a a weekly basis or every other day.

Speaker 17 It seems like dysregulation or this type of emotional, I don't know if you want to call it abuse or

Speaker 17 roller coaster emotions, lack of respect. Why would you say, Matthew,

Speaker 5 it's so hard to leave a relationship?

Speaker 7 The relationship is failing.

Speaker 5 It's not healthy, but people tend to stay.

Speaker 17 In your work that you do with a lot of women, why do women stay so long? Maybe there's kids or not kids involved, but why do women stay?

Speaker 17 And how can they start to shift to make it healthier or get out of it in a healthy way?

Speaker 27 I think it's, well, it would be, it would be

Speaker 27 termed the trauma bond, right?

Speaker 27 There's this behavior that makes life really hard with this person, or it might even make it intolerable, but we tolerate it for as long as we can.

Speaker 27 And then, you know, if it ever got too, too bad for too long, we would just have to leave, right?

Speaker 27 was if it was just hell 24 7 no matter what we would leave it would be enough we would reach a certain pain threshold but there's doses of moments right of good moments there's that moment where you know someone does something that hints at a different side of them it hints at the potential for kindness the potential for understanding it hints at what the relationship could be or was in the beginning or was in the beginning and and that reels us back in and we are so elated and so happy to have this moment that we then say okay i'm gonna i'm gonna go back in and then of course the other side of the other shoe drops which it always does

Speaker 27 and um

Speaker 27 you know i i think of it as a a broken clock right the the broken clock is right twice a day

Speaker 27 that you don't think is a good what it's not a good watch for telling the time yeah right it's failed in its fundamental function but when it's right you go well you know like that kind of relationship you're describing is the broken watch we're trying to use this thing to tell the time thinking that oh no it was right a minute ago

Speaker 27 well maybe maybe it is working after all and then we have to wait another 12 hours before it's right again

Speaker 27 so that you have to ask yourself, am I in that broken watch relationship?

Speaker 27 And if if I am,

Speaker 27 what's the way to get out of that? Well, I think one of the ways is to properly tune into your feelings.

Speaker 27 Because I think we don't really tune into what our experience is. We are so focused on where it could go or the fact that we think that we will be

Speaker 27 will never be okay if we lose this person. That I will

Speaker 27 How will I get by?

Speaker 27 Can I deal with the pain of losing this person? If I could just get them and turn them into the thing that I need them to be, then I'll be happy.

Speaker 27 We're so fixated on that that we're not fixated on the pain that we are in constantly,

Speaker 27 which is making us miserable. Or if we really paid attention, we'd look at how this disproportionately makes us miserable.

Speaker 27 I worked with someone who

Speaker 27 ended a relationship with a very toxic person. And this person was never around.

Speaker 27 this person was completely dismissive even on the weekends when they were together this person was just on their laptop paying them absolutely zero attention and the woman that I was coaching I remember at the end of the relationship she said I just don't know how I'm gonna do this how I'm gonna be on my own And then I

Speaker 27 showed her the relation. Yeah, like if I'm not, I don't know how I'm gonna be on my own.
And then I actually showed her the relationship. You are on your own.
I said, this person's never home.

Speaker 27 They stay out. On the weekends, you're completely alone, even when you're in the same room.
You've spent the last five years learning how to be alone. You're already good at this.

Speaker 27 You just have this old association that

Speaker 27 when I leave, I'm not going to be able to take it, but you already have the tools.

Speaker 17 Why does it seem like it's easier? as a girlfriend or a guy friend of a person in a struggling relationship.

Speaker 17 Why is it easy for them to see, man, this has been been two years you've been in this pattern, this loop of up and down emotional roller coaster and it doesn't seem healthy, when it's so hard for the person in the relationship to realize, man, this is broken.

Speaker 17 This is not working, but I'm going to keep trying to make it work. I'm going to keep trying to get that clock to hit the right time every minute.

Speaker 6 Why is it so hard for people to understand they're in a broken relationship?

Speaker 30 The investment they've placed into it makes it very difficult for them to see objective reality. In their mind, they have a vision of the future.

Speaker 30 It might involve children, it might involve a home, it might involve any kind of connection. And they think that vision can only be achieved with the person they've invested the most in.

Speaker 30 They don't realize that vision is still achievable outside of this relationship.

Speaker 30 They attribute the ability to achieve all of that to this relationship working out. As a friend or a family member, you can say, Well, you're still a great person.
You can still find love.

Speaker 30 You can still have kids. You can still get married.
But you can do it outside of this relationship. They don't see the vision outside of the relationship.

Speaker 30 So they've zoomed into the perspective of only through this person can I achieve my end goals. We as friends and family can say your goals are still are separate to this individual.

Speaker 30 They can still occur, but with somebody who doesn't have the unhealthy traits that make it impossible in this certain situation.

Speaker 17 What do you think of the things, you know, we're talking about why relationships fail, but what do you think of the things that people

Speaker 17 don't do before committing to the relationship that end up causing it to be just a rocky foundation to start with, which is destined to fail?

Speaker 17 What are things that women do or men do that you think set up a rocky foundation?

Speaker 1 I'll let you start.

Speaker 30 They don't communicate what is a deal-breaker to them. They know all the things that they like.
I like to go on dinner dates. I like to do this.
I like to do that.

Speaker 30 But they forget that the stability of the relationship depends on the actual deal breakers rather than all the things that you love about the person.

Speaker 17 What are some examples of deal breakers that people don't communicate?

Speaker 30 It might be lack of availability, emotional availability. It might be lack of affection.
So they might be funny, they might have a great job, they might be beautiful, all of those things.

Speaker 30 But if they are emotionally unavailable, or if they are not considerate, or if they're not compassionate as a person, but I haven't realized that that deal breaker is still there causing disruption of peace every single day.

Speaker 30 But if I realize my deal breakers and I go into it with the mentality that as long as I don't care if you're an angel on paper, but if you've got even one deal breaker, chances are we'll fight about this deal breaker forever.

Speaker 30 Really? It could just be that, you know, we disagree on a deal breaker might be commitment levels, how much commitment do I want?

Speaker 30 Or a deal breaker might be how much time we spend together, quality time. It might be any of the love languages.
One of them might be a deal breaker for you.

Speaker 30 But if that person has even one deal breaker, it will resurface again and again until the relationship slowly starts to corrode.

Speaker 30 So it's important to express what you think emotionally might be a deal breaker for you.

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Speaker 17 And what do you think are the biggest deal breakers for people?

Speaker 6 Would you say it's sex or topics around sex, money, and topics around money,

Speaker 17 family, kids, religion, or something else?

Speaker 23 God.

Speaker 27 I suppose it could be anything, depending on the person.

Speaker 17 Or is it just literally like we could have three things that are right, but if we have two that are off, like eventually it's going to be harder to make it work?

Speaker 6 Like, what do you think?

Speaker 27 I mean, I think if we have a very different vision for

Speaker 27 how we want to live our lives, you know, those are really hard. You know, if

Speaker 27 one person wants a family and the other one doesn't. you know, these are...

Speaker 27 But to the point of communication, those are things that often people turn a blind eye to.

Speaker 4 Why is that?

Speaker 8 Why do we not communicate deal breakers and things that are actually really important because we're committing to the relationship?

Speaker 27 We have a scarcity mindset. It's

Speaker 27 that fear of nothing better is going to come along. Look, I think that in our love lives, especially, we

Speaker 27 really want... to meet someone.

Speaker 27 It's a universal thing. We really want to meet someone.
And when we haven't met someone, we can start to get scared as time goes on.

Speaker 27 And we think there's something wrong with us and I'm broken and I'm never going to find someone. And what if it never happens for me? And God, it's so hard to meet someone.

Speaker 27 And so the most dangerous moment in

Speaker 27 love and dating is the moment you meet someone you're attracted to. That is the most dangerous moment.
Because if you meet a person you're attracted to in a place of scarcity and fear,

Speaker 27 that is precisely the time that you lower your standards and you lose your boundaries. Because the instinct is don't do anything that could mess it up.

Speaker 27 The instinct is not let me see how right this is.

Speaker 27 Don't do anything to screw this up. Now, people have different ways of dealing with that fear.
But if you take, you know, one example is

Speaker 27 some people go into like anxious fawning,

Speaker 27 right? I'm scared.

Speaker 27 I'm just going to do everything I,

Speaker 27 what kind of

Speaker 27 characterizes anxious fawning?

Speaker 17 I'm going to anxious fawning?

Speaker 27 Fawning, yeah. Fawning.

Speaker 27 I'm going to, like, so I'm anxious and my instinct when I'm anxious is to try to make you happy. Because if I can make you happy, maybe you'll never leave me.

Speaker 27 So for a lot of people, what that means is I over give

Speaker 27 at the same time as under communicating what I really need, which is a really poisonous combination.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 27 Because it simultaneously means you burn out giving to someone, but also no one knows what you really want.

Speaker 27 And you can.

Speaker 17 Because you resent the person for not giving you what you need that you haven't communicated it.

Speaker 27 Yeah, you resent them, but you're too afraid to rock the boat because you don't want to lose them. And it's fascinating to me.

Speaker 27 Like you can literally look at different types of people and how they, how they react to that.

Speaker 27 Like if you, if you are doing that and you come across an avoidant, someone who's avoidant is going to get pushed away. They're going to be like, this is a lot.

Speaker 27 And you're going to keep giving, even though they've pulled away, because that's what you do, but you're not going to communicate that it's hurt you that they've pulled away.

Speaker 27 So with an avoidant type, you won't get your needs met.

Speaker 27 Because you won't communicate as they pull away. You'll just keep giving, hoping that they'll come back.

Speaker 27 If you come across an anxious person and you're anxiously fawning, that person might consume you.

Speaker 27 Most people, or not most people, some people have had that experience with a parent where their parent was just trying to get their own needs met and they became the child that gave and gave and gave and gave and gave to try to make the parent happy.

Speaker 27 But because they had no boundaries around that, they became deeply resentful of this one-sided relationship with their parent.

Speaker 27 People then go into that in relationships too, where it's like, they just live in service of this other person who's anxiously taking as much as they can.

Speaker 27 If you come across a secure person and you're anxiously fawning, then that person's going to have a hard time connecting with you because they're not going to know what your preferences are.

Speaker 27 You're going to say, they're going to say, what do you want for dinner? And you say, what do you want for dinner? And they'll go,

Speaker 27 I don't know, Chinese food. And you'll go, that was me too.
I wanted that. And if you do that three times in a row, they'll realize they don't know who you are.

Speaker 27 They can't connect with you. They don't know how to make you happy.
And they can't really trust you because they can't trust that you're ever really saying what you really think.

Speaker 27 So I say this to highlight the fact that this is how these dynamics get started is we're coming from a place of fear.

Speaker 27 And when we're coming from a place of fear, we go to the weapons that we know how to use, right? We all have our weapon of choice. For some people, it's, I don't let anyone screw with me.

Speaker 27 And that's their weapon of choice. And the moment they think they could get hurt, they reject someone before that person can reject them.

Speaker 27 Other people is my weapon of choice is making, trying to do as much as possible for you that I make myself indispensable.

Speaker 27 It's worth everyone asking, like, what's my weapon of choice? What do I default to?

Speaker 27 And if I never question what I'm defaulting to,

Speaker 27 I'm going to always be in the same kinds of relationships. And by the way, that anxious fawning I'm talking about.
Who does it attract? The toxic person, right? Because that person sees a free lunch.

Speaker 1 Of course.

Speaker 27 So like, I'm going to come and take everything from the buffet here. And And then when I'm done with it, I'm out.
So

Speaker 27 then we go, why do I always attract people like this? Or why do I always fall into these patterns? It's because there is a

Speaker 27 weapon that we are overusing.

Speaker 27 And at some point, we have to, like, it's a very brave thing

Speaker 27 to go, what weapon am I overusing? And

Speaker 27 recognize, by the way, that's meeting a need.

Speaker 27 That there's some need it's meeting. Right.
If I, if I'm the, if I'm.

Speaker 1 Not Not a healthy need.

Speaker 27 But

Speaker 27 if I crack jokes and make everyone laugh and I know I can do that, then it meets a need for me. It's control.
I know that I can control the room through making people laugh.

Speaker 27 Now it also might be a barrier to connection in situations where sincerity is called for and we never get deep because I'm always making jokes.

Speaker 27 But if I stop joking

Speaker 27 and I say, I'm going to try and create a deeper connection. And that means I'm going to pull back from the sarcasm, let's say,

Speaker 27 I've taken away my own most practiced, sharpened weapon.

Speaker 27 And I may not know how to operate in this new territory. I now may find myself almost like a toddler in conversation going, I don't know how to play this game.

Speaker 27 I don't know how to connect with people when I'm not being funny. And it requires us almost to get worse before we get better.

Speaker 27 to feel like we're taking a step backwards before we take a step forwards.

Speaker 27 The step forwards might ultimately be a far healthier relationship or a far better relationship than anything we've ever experienced.

Speaker 27 But we might have to go almost like go back to like learning how to walk again in an area and give up that power we're used to feeling so that we can have something much more rewarding on the other side of it.

Speaker 18 Where do you feel like people have the happiest relationships in the world that you've experienced? Or at least they say they do? And what do they have have in common in those places where they're the

Speaker 18 not that everything's going to be perfect, but where are they the happiest?

Speaker 34 So that's a very interesting question. And by the way, I didn't answer the question about people dating who want to be in a relationship with the community.

Speaker 16 We can get back to that, yes.

Speaker 9 Yes, don't leave us out.

Speaker 34 Didn't forget you.

Speaker 34 I don't know that it's geographic.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.

Speaker 34 In places where the community is really strong, which a lot of people come here from countries where you, you know, at the heart of your life is this community, extended family, and all of that.

Speaker 34 You get support, you get a lot of clarity, but you often get very little freedom, which is why so many people come to America,

Speaker 34 you know, and to New York to get that freedom. In places like in New York, where or in very individualistic places, where at the heart of the relationship is not the community but the individual

Speaker 34 in search of a community.

Speaker 34 You have unprecedented freedom. We've never been more free and we've never been more alone.

Speaker 34 So I don't know a place on the planet where we are more happy. The places where people have a lot of togetherness, people often yearn for separateness, for freedom, for autonomy.

Speaker 34 The places where people have a lot of individuality and freedom, they yearn for more connection. They yearn to not feel modern loneliness, which kind of masks itself as hyper-connectivity.

Speaker 34 You can have a thousand virtual friends and no one to feed you cat, no one to pick up a prescription at a pharmacy. That's what we understood in the pandemic.

Speaker 34 God forbid somebody to pick you up at the airport. Friends and friendship is not the same.

Speaker 34 So

Speaker 34 I don't know places where people are more happy geographically. What makes people more happy is to feel that they matter,

Speaker 34 that people care about them even when they don't see them, that they take them with them, inside of them, that

Speaker 34 their relationships are meaningful, nurturing, that they don't judge them and that they also don't ignore them. So it's this kind of nice flexibility between, you know, you dare for me,

Speaker 34 but not on the condition that I do what you want.

Speaker 34 And I have the freedom, but not that you can cancel an hour before dinner, because these days who cares?

Speaker 34 Which happens a lot in this town case in point.

Speaker 9 Of course, yeah.

Speaker 34 You know, so this is freedom too, like the freedom to think: do I have better? Is there a better deal for me tonight? You know, is there so?

Speaker 34 And this is also freedom, is that I'm so important that I no longer think about how this is going to affect you, that you may have cooked a whole meal, and I just at seven o'clock tell you that I won't show up at eight.

Speaker 34 That makes people feel

Speaker 35 lack of respect.

Speaker 34 What makes us happy is meaning, creativity, flexibility, and good laughter.

Speaker 18 Good laughter? Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 18 So it's

Speaker 18 having the community with flexibility. Yes.
Where it's not like you have to do what I tell you to do or otherwise we're not going to love.

Speaker 34 Which is why people have family of choice. People create today new communities.

Speaker 34 People pursue polyamory as a form of community building. I mean, there's a lot lot of iterations of how to build community.
Yes. But it doesn't have to be always the people that you grew up with.

Speaker 34 Right. Because they're not always your best community either.
Sure.

Speaker 18 And what about the single people who have maybe struggled in previous relationships or who maybe took time for themselves, but now they want to attract and create a healthy relationship?

Speaker 15 How can they

Speaker 18 do the work for themselves so that they can really see when a person is in front of them that, oh, this is a healthy human being.

Speaker 35 Let me explore this.

Speaker 17 And not just get into old, similar patterns.

Speaker 9 Right.

Speaker 34 I tend to not like, first of all, the concept of single and coupled.

Speaker 34 Because today you're single and tomorrow you're not. And today you're coupled and tomorrow you're single.
There's a lot, much, much more fluidity these days. But what I do know is this.

Speaker 34 If I we live with belief systems, relationships are stories.

Speaker 34 Everyone here has a story about your relationship. And we sometimes hold on to our stories so tightly that we confuse them with the truth.

Speaker 34 If I say there are no good men out there, if I say all people are out to get you, if I say I'm a pathological pleaser, if I say people have never cared about me properly,

Speaker 34 these stories become belief systems that become a part of my confirmation bias.

Speaker 34 And when we have confirmation bias, it means that I'm now going to look at you and see to what extent this is going to reinforce my belief.

Speaker 34 And then I'm going to disregard evidence of the rest. So check your assumptions.
That's the first thing

Speaker 34 on the chain. What are your fundamental beliefs with which you enter relationships? And to what extent do you find yourself busy proving that they're true? Which doesn't serve you much.

Speaker 19 Right, right.

Speaker 34 Number one.

Speaker 34 Number two,

Speaker 34 when you go out on a date, don't turn them into job interviews.

Speaker 34 They've never seen something less interesting. I mean, people ask questions and then they look to see if they have butterflies.

Speaker 34 How can that work?

Speaker 34 It's the most dull, dull kind of encounter. This weird thing that I see has happened, but you go out to date.

Speaker 34 This is if you get a date,

Speaker 34 you know, because there are that other experience. And then you have to come back to your life to tell them if you won the lottery or not.
And you come back with your shame or with your emptiness.

Speaker 34 It's dreadful.

Speaker 34 You know, there was something useful in the other model, the old model. You date, you meet somebody, you bring them to your life.
You meet them with your friends.

Speaker 34 You'll have a thousand data points, far more interesting than sitting in some noisy bar and trying to ask questions. And this integration, if the date doesn't work, the date is gone.

Speaker 34 And the friends are here, and you continue your life. Wow.
So, this is not about the building of the relationship, but it's about the dating itself.

Speaker 34 The next thing is that we have a thing in relationships that's very interesting. It's called fundamental attribution error.

Speaker 2 It means

Speaker 34 attribution error.

Speaker 18 Fundamental attribution error.

Speaker 34 Yeah, it goes like this.

Speaker 34 I am complicated and complex. You are simple.

Speaker 34 When you come late,

Speaker 34 it's because you don't care.

Speaker 34 When I come late, it's because there were circumstances in my life to explain why I am late.

Speaker 34 Mine is circumstantial. Yours is characterological.

Speaker 18 You don't care about me.

Speaker 34 You're just a slob. You're just a this, you're just a that.
You know, it's a fantastic way we have to organize the world.

Speaker 34 So that is one of those nasty things that really make relationships not thrive. Wow.

Speaker 34 You know, name-calling the other person, the whole thing. And then I'll ask you one other one that I think is really crucial.
When you fight,

Speaker 34 because fighting is a major piece of relationship, it's intrinsic. Conflict is part of love and relationships, all relationships.
But don't think that what matters is what you're fighting about,

Speaker 34 but always ask yourself, what is it that I'm fighting for?

Speaker 34 What people fight for when they fight is usually three things.

Speaker 34 You fight for care and closeness.

Speaker 34 You fight for respect and recognition and you fight for power and control. Who makes the decisions? Whose priorities matter more?

Speaker 34 Power and control. Care and closeness, do you have my back? Can I trust you? And respect and recognition, can you value me? Most fights you will find are about one of those three things.

Speaker 34 But that's not what we say. What we say is, why did you leave your shoes once again?

Speaker 34 In my tour, I have this couple, and

Speaker 34 they fight about the cat closet, the litter, the cat box.

Speaker 34 And I'm thinking, seriously, we're going to talk here about cat.

Speaker 34 I mean, this is an important session. And then I understand that when she says, why didn't you close the closet? It has nothing to do with the closet.

Speaker 34 It has to do with his father, who told him all the time what to do, who stood with his foot on his neck, who never let him breathe. And this guy grew up saying, Nobody's going to be the boss of me.

Speaker 34 This is what he's saying when he says, Why shall I close the closet?

Speaker 34 That's power and control. And then she grew up all alone, taking care of the whole family, really miserable situation.
And when he says, Why shall I close the closet? You close the closet.

Speaker 34 What does she hear?

Speaker 34 I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life. I've always had to do it for everybody.
I took care of everyone, and this is going to continue. No.

Speaker 34 You know,

Speaker 34 this is the underlying thing. But people will get so caught in the closet and the cat litter, it's phenomenal.

Speaker 6 This is why...

Speaker 1 Do you get this is the...

Speaker 34 What are you fighting for?

Speaker 34 Ask yourself that. It will...
shorten your therapy hours by many that's beautiful

Speaker 18 this is why uh me me and Martha have one of the electronic robo cat cleaning litters. So no one has to clean the litter.
Yeah.

Speaker 18 It self-cleans.

Speaker 1 It's amazing.

Speaker 34 These days we trust our robots.

Speaker 1 I know, right? It's amazing.

Speaker 35 The cat robot, you guys know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 19 You guys got one? Yeah, those are good, right?

Speaker 18 No one's got to clean it. It's self-cleaning.

Speaker 18 They don't have that for dogs. You just got to walk them still, you know?

Speaker 15 So

Speaker 35 I want to ask you a person.

Speaker 18 We've got a few minutes left with Esther, and I want to ask you a personal question. I always like to do this with you.
We'll see if you want to receive it or not. But

Speaker 18 you've done a lot of work coaching others for a long time, and you've got amazing podcasts.

Speaker 18 Your podcast, Where Should We Begin, is incredible. I don't know if anyone's ever heard this.
Where Should We Begin is incredible.

Speaker 18 You've got amazing books, which we have your books out in the bookstore. If people haven't gotten them yet, we've got your books here.
You've got this game that'll help you. Where should we begin?

Speaker 18 Anyone have this yet?

Speaker 18 Where should we begin? This is an amazing game of stories by Esther Pereira, where you can really connect with your partner on ideas and things like that. You've got an eroticism course as well.

Speaker 34 Coming out this week.

Speaker 18 We'll have a link for you guys. We'll show you that in a second.

Speaker 18 For anyone that wants to be more sexually connected in that playful way, you'll be able to tap into that.

Speaker 18 But I'm curious, with all the research and all the work you've done to help others, what in the last five years

Speaker 18 you received for yourself or had to overcome personally in intimacy, relationships?

Speaker 18 Again, you help and serve so many people, but sometimes as the coach,

Speaker 18 you don't get the opportunity to always self-reflect and get coached and work through things personally.

Speaker 18 I'm curious, is there anything in the last five years that you've seen a breakthrough personally with your life?

Speaker 34 Yes, yes. And

Speaker 34 half of me was so excited I have an answer, and half of me wished I didn't have to have an answer.

Speaker 34 But you'll hear why.

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Speaker 34 So

Speaker 34 basically two years,

Speaker 34 about when did we go to Australia? Two years ago, two and a half years ago. I came to LA on November 1st.

Speaker 34 I was with my husband and we were on our way to New Zealand. I was starting a whole tour.
My kids were already waiting for us there. And basically, we entered the doctor's office.

Speaker 34 And the doctor said, you ain't going on any plane. You're not flying.
You have 10% kidney function left.

Speaker 25 Wow.

Speaker 18 For you.

Speaker 34 For him.

Speaker 1 For him. Wow.
For him.

Speaker 34 And we knew he had kidney issues, but not that bad. Not that bad.

Speaker 34 That meant, and you know, in the United States, there are no organs because the system is set up that if you want to be a donor, you have to specify it on your driver's license.

Speaker 34 In Belgium where I'm from everybody is a donor unless you specify on your driver's license that you don't want to be a donor. So think about that because it really saves lives.

Speaker 34 But now I needed to find a kidney.

Speaker 16 Wow.

Speaker 34 And That meant I needed to let people help me and I was at a mercy.

Speaker 34 So I began to talk to small groups of friends, just grew the circle every time a little bit. Who would like to donate a kidney? I'm not a match.
My son is not a match.

Speaker 34 My other son was not going to be able to do.

Speaker 34 And it's an amazingly humble

Speaker 34 experience to...

Speaker 34 I had no problem asking, I have to say. I genuinely have no problem asking for help.
I'm not the person who helps others but can't ask for myself. I am a help.

Speaker 18 You don't gingerly do the eroticism with asking for help. Yeah, you're not playing.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 You're like, give me the help. Let's go.

Speaker 34 And I got a point where we had 10 people, 10 people who were willing to donate, but one match.

Speaker 34 Wow. And anyway, the match came through.
It was our friend. We brought her over from Europe.

Speaker 34 We created this whole ritual with friends in my house where the night before they went in,

Speaker 34 instead of it just being an organ donation we turned it into a sacred gift.

Speaker 34 We sat in a circle and talked about what is our experience in life about giving and receiving.

Speaker 34 We brought them together the next day and then for the next months while they were recovering basically I had all our friends. This one took them to the hospital every morning at seven.

Speaker 34 This one cooked. This one this, this one that.
And here's the important thing. I live with an expert on community resilience.

Speaker 34 His work, his lifelong work is about collective trauma and community resilience, but he had never experienced it himself in action.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 34 So this is my story.

Speaker 2 Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 Oh my gosh.

Speaker 34 That's beautiful. I have not yet told this in public.

Speaker 21 Wow, that's beautiful.

Speaker 18 This is my first time. So

Speaker 18 what has been the breakthrough of the lesson for you two and a half years later now?

Speaker 34 So here's the interesting thing. There is a moment that is a lesson.
At one one point early on, I said I talked to so-and-so and they said we should go see the Dr.

Speaker 34 So-and-so, which we are going to see now in LA. And he said, why do you talk about this with people? I'm entitled to my privacy.

Speaker 34 Any of you who are in this room who are that person.

Speaker 34 And I said, but come on, it's because I talked to these people that I got this name that I now have this appointment that this is how it works, community.

Speaker 34 I mean, do you think we're just going to sit here and find a doctor who's going to see us in less than six months? That's what I meant by I talk.

Speaker 34 And it's about overcoming your shame and thinking that privacy is really nice, but you will die in privacy.

Speaker 34 And, you know, and that you, if you don't want to do it, that's okay, but let the people around you do it for you.

Speaker 4 Wow, that's beautiful.

Speaker 18 That's amazing.

Speaker 18 And how's he doing now?

Speaker 1 He's great. He's great.

Speaker 34 It's like, you know, a new life.

Speaker 34 It's impressive. I mean, you know, most surgeries take things out.
This one just puts something in.

Speaker 19 Wow, that's incredible.

Speaker 18 And what was the biggest lesson for the donor?

Speaker 34 I mean, the donor, it's what you experience is you feel like you've given life to someone. And by the way, you live perfectly well with one kidney.

Speaker 34 So it's really when the most important moment about the donor is that at Mount Sinai, they have every year a gathering of the donors, liver donors, kidney donors, and you're in a room with these people.

Speaker 34 We happen to know ours, but all of the other people, sometimes it's strangers who just want, they appear like angels.

Speaker 34 And you watch these people, these unsung heroes, and you just shut the f up because, you know,

Speaker 34 I don't know if I would do it. This is the thing.
Would I have done this? Have I known people? Have I heard? And I never responded. Like, it's so easy, you know, to think,

Speaker 34 but no, no. And I watched these people and I just bald.

Speaker 26 Wow.

Speaker 18 That's a beautiful experience. I'm so glad you shared that.

Speaker 9 Thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 34 I have a question for you. Yeah.

Speaker 19 Uh-oh.

Speaker 18 No, because... Are pretty up.

Speaker 34 Because the last time we met, you were just

Speaker 34 in the engagement, going to therapy, working on it. And here you are, you know,

Speaker 34 what's the,

Speaker 34 you know, you said I worked on myself or we have worked together, but

Speaker 34 what's the part of yourself that you discovered that you didn't know existed?

Speaker 34 I have another one afterwards.

Speaker 34 Part of me is that Mahta whispering to you?

Speaker 18 Part of me, I'm just trying to be present with the whole experience.

Speaker 18 Part of me I've discovered

Speaker 18 that the part of me I've discovered that I knew it didn't exist.

Speaker 34 That I didn't know existed. The thing that has come out of me that surprises even me.

Speaker 18 I think

Speaker 35 that

Speaker 18 I am deserving of

Speaker 14 incredible love.

Speaker 4 That's the thing I just started making.

Speaker 18 Thank you. And I think it's been a journey

Speaker 18 of receiving it.

Speaker 18 Thank you.

Speaker 18 But I feel like

Speaker 18 you know, for most of my life, and I don't know if anyone can relate, it was about,

Speaker 18 I felt loved by people,

Speaker 18 but I also, I think the traumas outweighed the memories of the love. So the traumas were bigger memories of fear, anxiety, and pain.

Speaker 15 And like,

Speaker 18 you know,

Speaker 18 Dan, you're safe, you're loved, you're free.

Speaker 18 And it's not like there was one person or people. It was just a series of events

Speaker 18 over time of all the different series of events you know my sexual sexual abuse is one of the first memories I have as a human being

Speaker 18 and again that kind of influence you until you reprogram it until you create new meaning with it and allow it to and say how can I use this for good right and how can I this doesn't define me as a thing that happened and and I feel at peace about it But as a child, you know, that was there.

Speaker 18 You know, my parents had their struggles.

Speaker 4 They just really struggled.

Speaker 18 My dad was a difficult human being as much as I loved him. He was very difficult and emotionally up and down.
So there was not emotional stability from him.

Speaker 18 So therefore, there was challenge with them.

Speaker 18 And my brother was in prison for four and a half years when I was eight years old. So there was just shame and trauma within the family dynamic that, oh, my older brother, who's my hero, is in prison.

Speaker 17 I love him. Is he a bad guy?

Speaker 18 Is he a good guy? I feel like he's a good guy. Why is he here?

Speaker 18 Every weekend, we would go for hours in the visiting room and be around 20, 30 convicts and their families every week for four and a half years.

Speaker 18 And so there's traumas there. And it's just the picking on, the bullying, the being dyslexic, not being able to read, unable to speak in front of an audience without being terrified.

Speaker 18 Just all the series of events, I focused more on the traumas than the love.

Speaker 17 There was a lot of love, but I couldn't feel them.

Speaker 18 And so learning how to

Speaker 18 regulate my nervous system and my heart and my body and learn how to breathe with all of it.

Speaker 18 The chaos of the world, relationship challenges from the past, and learning how to say, oh, I am safe no matter what's happening around me.

Speaker 18 Whether I'm going through a disagreement, it doesn't mean my life is at risk. Whether someone doesn't like me, it doesn't mean I have to give in to what they're requesting.

Speaker 18 You know,

Speaker 18 If I don't feel good right now, that's okay. I know I can transform it and feel good tomorrow.

Speaker 18 So, learning the skills, learning the tools, and doing the deeper healing work has allowed me to feel loved. And really, I think one of the biggest fears was

Speaker 18 I lacked the courage to end relationships, so I would stay for way longer than I knew intuitively I shouldn't be in this.

Speaker 18 But I was afraid to be alone.

Speaker 18 I didn't know how to fully be alone and love myself alone.

Speaker 18 And I really learned how to do that to where I don't feel like I have to give in to anyone.

Speaker 18 I'm like, I love myself if I'm alone, and I know that God will provide me in the right direction with what I need. It's not what I want, but I know I'll be provided that.

Speaker 18 And

Speaker 18 having that clarity and that inner peace of I'm going to be okay. no matter what happens lets me be free to be me and feel loved and I can give myself love and I can receive it from others also

Speaker 18 Even if I'm not getting it from others in a moment if I need it I know how to give it to me in a you know

Speaker 18 in a spiritual way not like a selfish oh, I'm loving myself way and so I think learning that process while healing and creating meaning from all these memories of the past

Speaker 18 It just gives me a lot of peace and freedom. And I never had that until really the last four years.

Speaker 23 So thank you. Yeah, of course.
Thank you.

Speaker 23 Thank you.

Speaker 34 I think that everything you just said is part of your question.

Speaker 34 It's part of the answer to the question, you know, how does one prepare oneself to be in a relationship? You know, there's often a pull in a relationship between two polarities.

Speaker 34 the fear of losing the other and the fear of losing oneself.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 34 The fear of abandonment abandonment and the fear of suffocation.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 34 I will not leave you,

Speaker 34 but I will lose myself

Speaker 34 in order not to be alone. Wow.

Speaker 34 Or the reverse is I leave you all the time. I don't stick around anywhere because I'm afraid that if I hang one more day, I'm gonna get trapped.

Speaker 12 I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

Speaker 3 Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links.

Speaker 3 And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker 3 Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.

Speaker 3 I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.

Speaker 36 And I want to remind you of no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something

Speaker 1 great.

Speaker 37 There are millions of podcasts out there, and you've chosen this one. Whether you're a regular or just here on a whim, it's what you have chosen to listen to.

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