How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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What is the number one thing you hear from everyone in the world that only you have a unique perspective on? What's interesting is that we all think we know what is holding us back.

And we describe it, whether it's money or time or I'm exhausted or I'm stuck or it's my past

or it's my mindset. And it's not that at all.
If you're not happy, if you don't have what you want

in life, if you're exhausted, tired, stuck, or overwhelmed, the problem isn't what you think it is. In fact, the problem isn't you.
The problem is the power you are unknowingly giving to other people. There are eight key ways that you have turned other people into the biggest obstacle in your life.
And other people should be one of the greatest sources of inspiration and connection and joy and love. And instead, they're a constant source of stress and frustration and energy drain, and they do not have to be.
And it is this invisible obstacle that is in everybody's way that is stealing your time, is stealing your energy, and you don't even realize it. And there's a totally different way to go through life.
Your single most valuable resources are time and energy. Because where you spend your time and what you pour your energy into determines the quality of your life.
And what I started to notice very, very, very quickly, like within 24 hours, is that the reason why I didn't have a lot of time is because I was spending it getting worked up about stupid things. The reason why my energy was so drained is because I was allowing other people's behavior or things that were happening around me to actually drain my energy.
And saying let them became this lever I could pull any moment where I felt my time and attention getting sucked towards something that truly wasn't worth my time and energy or didn't matter, or more importantly, beyond my control. And as you talk about all the time, and as lots of people talk about, it's not about what's happening.
It's about how you respond to it. And the problem that I've always had with stoicism or letting it go or principles that are about being more peaceful and boundaries is that I never knew how to apply it.
Like, let's take the concept of let it go. I don't want to let it go.
Why don't you? Well, I'll tell you why. It feels like I'm losing.
You know, when somebody says to you, Lewis, you just got to let it go, they're basically saying you lose. So stop worrying about it.
That person won. You got to let it go.
What if there's an example of like, OK, someone in your company steals $100,000 from you or takes something from you or does something that you're like, do I just let it go? Well, it's a great question. Do I just let them take whatever they want? Do I just let them crap all over me all day long? Because that actually happened to me.
So I had two things happen in my company. One, where we had a contractor that literally stole our database and lied about a campaign that we thought we were paying for that was going on, and it never actually happened, and they presented fake data.
Now, I have to let them because it happened and I didn't know until I discovered it too late. But there's a second part to this theory.
Because of course, I'm going to get upset and I'm going to be pissed off. But allowing myself to stay in that state of rage, what I know is it doesn't allow me to leverage this part of my brain to then respond.
And that's the second part of this theory that I discovered, which is once you say, let them, you detach from the thing you can't control. Because the other thing that happened to me, Louis, and I think I've shared this story with you before, is that I was also the victim of a big wire fraud scam, $350,000.
A scam that's very common in the real estate business where somebody breaks into a server and just intercepts emails and then changes banking information. $350,000 is a lot.
No kidding. But by the time I figured it out, the money was gone.
Gone. Gone.
And the more upset that you get about something, the less you use... The more upset that you get about something, the faster you lose your ability to think critically.
It's true. And so when you say let them, it's like allowing something without allowing it.
It's recognizing that there is something that happened or there is a person in your life

that's doing something that's pissing you off or annoying you or stressing you out or

worrying you, but you have no control over that.

And so yes, react, but at some point you got to go let them because it helps you recognize

and accept the reality and detach from something.

It's already happened.

And detach, most importantly, from what you can't control.

So what's the second part then?

Let me.

Thank you. accept the reality and detach from something.
It's already happened. Yeah, it's already happened.
And detach, most importantly, from what you can't control. So what's the second part then? Let me.
Let me choose what I'm going to do. And when you say, let me, you do something crazy powerful.
First of all, you take responsibility for how you're going to address this. let's look at the word responsibility it's the ability to respond and when you say let me you are reminding yourself that in life there are only three things Lewis you can control only three things number one you can control what you think next number, you can control what you think next.
Number two, you can control what you do or you don't do next. And oftentimes doing nothing is way more powerful than doing something.
And number three, you can control what you're going to do with the emotions that you feel and when you say let me in any situation you detach from the things you cannot control and you remind yourself that no matter what is happening around me or to me I always always have power because through my thoughts and through my actions and through the processing of my emotion, I can positively impact or change what's happening for the better. And if you allow yourself to constantly get stressed out or waste your time by managing what you will never be able to control, you will never see the power that you have.
And so this gets back to the question that you asked, which is what is the single biggest thing that is in everybody's way? And the single biggest thing that is in everybody's way is the power you unknowingly give to other people. And there are four main ways that you're doing it.
And it is blocking your ability to be happy. It is blocking your ability to make decisions that are aligned with what you want.
It is blocking your ability to leverage your time for the things that you care about. It is keeping you from pursuing the things that you're capable of doing in your life.
And it is also draining your time. And the four big ways that you've turned other people into a problem.
Number one, you allow them to stress you out. Number two, you're so concerned about what everybody else thinks.
It is a massive obstacle in your way because you consider it before you do anything. Number three, you navigate your entire life based on other people's emotional reactions.
And you allow emotional immaturity in other people and in yourself to dominate how you move through your day. And number four, your habit of chronically looking over there and comparing yourself makes you feel like life is unfair and that other people are against you or competing with you.
And all four of those things are simply not true. And you can use the let them theory to remove all four of those obstacles and when you no longer allow people to stress you out you have more energy when you allow people you let them think negative thoughts about you because you recognize you can't control what they think anyway it frees you up to focus on what's within your control which is what you about yourself.
And when you operate in a way, Lewis, that makes you proud of yourself, you authentically don't really care if people have a negative opinion. When it comes to emotional immaturity, so many of us are driven by guilt, or we're scared to disappoint people, or we don't want to let people down, or we think it's our job to make other people happy.

And when you organize your life around managing another adult's feelings,

you become the parent to another human being.

And there's a much easier way.

Let them.

Let them be disappointed.

Let them be upset.

Let them be sad that you're doing something that they wanted you to do, but you're not going to do it. Let them be an adult and let them deal with themselves.
And the fourth one is when you spend tons of time comparing yourself to other people. And look, comparison is normal.
Comparing yourself to other people isn't the problem.

It's what you're doing with it that is. And so using the let them theory, you got to let other people be successful.
Because right now what's happening is when you see somebody else succeeding or happy or they're pregnant or they're engaged or they're doing whatever, they're building some big brand and you tell yourself, oh my God, they've already done what I wanted to do. I'm too late because they've done it.
Now I can't do it. You actually are working against the laws of the world because success and happiness and joy and friendship and love, these are all things that are in limitless supply.
And the truth about life is that you're not actually playing against other people. You're playing with them.
And when you turn other people into a problem and you look at other people's success or happiness or the things that they've achieved or experienced in their lives as evidence that you won't have it, you're working against the natural order of things. Other people can't actually block your way.
Only you can do that. And if you let people show you the way, if you let them inspire you, if you let them reveal the formula to success now you're learning from people instead of turning people into a problem that is blocking you from doing what you're capable of and those are the four ways that you have turned other people into a problem and you have allowed other other people, and your desire to control them, or to manage them, or the sense that you have this responsibility to make everybody else happy, and you've forgotten about the one person whose job it is that you are supposed to be making happy, which is you.
Kind of cool, huh? Very cool. So this was a kind of an awakening with your son and your daughter.
Uh-huh. Well, it starts at the prom, which is crazy.
Was this two years ago? Yeah. When you were able to have this kind of awakening a couple of years ago, how much of these things were you doing that were holding you back for? Everything.
Really? Everything. I didn't see this.
See, it's sort of like you and I both have dyslexia. I didn't discover that I had dyslexia and ADHD until I was 47.
Right. Because my...
and I found out the way most women do. My son was getting evaluated for school and I'm like...
You're like, oh, I think I have the same thing here. Yeah.
Yeah. Interesting.
And if you don't know the problem, then you have no access to solving it. And for years, Louis, I thought that the primary thing that I was struggling with was anxiety, because when you have dyslexia or ADHD and it's not diagnosed or addressed, the thing that rises to the surface is anxiety.
And anxiety wasn't my problem. Anxiety was a symptom.
Why do you think you had anxiety then? Or what do you think anxiety was showing up for you in your life? Oh, well, it's very simple. Like if you're sitting in a classroom and your brain can't do what everybody else, you know, can do and you're falling behind.
You'll feel anxious. Of course, because you're uncertain.
And anxiety, in my mind, is just a situation where you feel like there's an unknown, right? And you add in this belief that you're not capable of figuring it out. And the problem is that when something feels overwhelming or you don't know or things feel a little out of control, we focus on that and then we start worrying versus focusing on the fact that you're actually capable of figuring something out.
That's all that anxiety is. It's a separation with the power inside you.
And then of course, your body has this alarm system. And when something is happening in the moment or it's about to happen and you get nervous because you're uncertain or you're afraid of how things are going to turn out or you're afraid that the teacher is going to call on you, right, the alarm system in your body goes off.
And then you separate yourself from your power because you always have the ability to figure something out. And for somebody who starts to struggle chronically with anxiety, what ends up happening is that you start to, when you feel nervous in your body, which by the way, it is a mentally healthy response if you're a dyslexic kid in classroom and you don't know what the hell is going on to feel nervous.
That's a sign that things are working well because the alarm is trying to tell you something's not right. And then we feel the alarm and we don't know what the issue is, so then we make a major mistake.
Instead of dropping into the alarm, which is always in your body, we go upstairs to our heads, which is where self-doubt is. And then you start going, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, which only makes the alarm bigger.
I didn't know any of this back then. So I, of course, went from a dyslexic and ADHD kid to somebody that develops anxiety because I'm sitting in a classroom thinking I'm an idiot.
And you want to know the kid that works the hardest in school? The one who's struggling. Not the kids that are getting straight A's.
It's easy for them. Yes.
Even if they're working hard. It's still easy to come by.
Yes. It's the kid who isn't able to learn in that way and is terrified of being found out.
You don't have to tell a kid that's struggling in school that telling somebody to work harder is dumb. Because it not an issue of willpower.
It's an issue of, I don't have the skills right now. And when you're in that situation where you can't, in fact, there's a doctor that was on our show two weeks ago that you got to have on.
His name is Dr. Stuart Avalon.
And Lewis, he said this sentence. He's been at Mass General Brigham for 30 years, incredible, child psychiatrist, he says, people do well when they can.
And if somebody's not doing well, and they're exhibiting challenging behavior, it's because they're missing one of a few skills. And he's been able to identify it down into five skills.
And one of the tragic things about his work with kids that he sees over and over is that it's not the kid's fault. And if you don't know what the skill is that you need, whether it's communicating or impulse control, or it is the ability to learn in the way that your brain's being asked to learn, These are all things that can be addressed.
If you don't know what the skill is that's missing, you will continue to struggle. And we live in a world where if you're struggling or you're presenting challenging behavior, we punish you.
Or you tell you to work harder. Yes.
Or you punish yourself. Oh yeah.
You feel shame and guilt. Correct.
And so the let them theory is the exact same thing because it is a skill to be able to identify what's in your control and what's not in your control. And it's a skill anybody can learn.
And you need to learn it because human beings at our core, we have a fundamental hardwired need for control. It makes us feel safe.
So if you really think about this, like you need to feel in control of your decisions. You need to feel in control of your environment.
You need to feel in control of what's going to happen in the future or at work today. And we also try to make ourselves feel safe by what? Controlling the people around us.
And this is in all of us. I have this need to be in control.
You have this need to be in control. This is why the parent-child relationship is so irritating, right? Because you're the parent or you're the adult child and you have a need to be in control of yourself, but your parent only feels safe if they're in control of you.
And that sets up a problem for every relationship that you're in. Because if I can't control you, it makes me feel unsafe.
But if I try to control you, Louis, then you're going to feel annoyed. And what happens in the body, and I write about this in the book, because the first thing you're going to learn when you learn this skill of identifying what's not in your control and removing it as an obstacle in your life.
Because when you stop giving power to things that aren't in your control, guess what you give back? Time, energy, power, confidence, peace, joy. You realize you do have agency and that that power isn't over there, it's in here.
And you have the exact same thing. And when you start to tap into that for yourself, it's just liberating.
And then you start to see the second thing that I write about in the book, which is that there are four ways you're screwing up your relationships because you're trying to control people. And any psychologist will tell you that when you try to control something that you can't control, it just creates stress and frustration for you.
And it creates tension and misunderstanding and distance in your relationships. Because if you have a need to control and I have a need to control, right? And I try to pressure you to do something, Lewis, your brain is wired not to feel motivated, but to actually resist the change I want you to make.
Yeah, exactly. Yes.
You don't want to do it. No.
Yeah, yeah. No.
And so it was fascinating also to see that for 54 years, I was actually operating the opposite of human wiring when it came to relationships. Say you've always wanted to have a backyard oasis.
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With more 5G phones to choose from of control, wanting to control either your kids or your partner, where were you on that scale? I'd say that publicly I was probably a five. Privately? Ten.
Wow. We all are.
We all are. So what does that look like then? Is it like not accepting your kids to be themselves or they want to do something and you say, no, you can't do that or here's what you need to do or how does that.
Because you've got to discipline kids, too. Of course.
You can't just be, let them do whatever they want. Let them eat whatever they want.
They can stay up all night. Let them.
No, no. Because this is a book about adult relationships.
Okay, good. And we make a huge distinction because when you're an adult, you are and you have a child or you're a caregiver or a coach.
You can't let them. No.
You are a, well, there are certain things you need to let them do. Yes.
But there are certain guardrails that are your responsibility. For example, a child cannot regulate their own emotions.
Right. You have to, it's your responsibility to teach a child how to regulate their own emotions.
And the problem is that no adults know how to do this. They haven't been taught it either.
Correct. Which is why another philosophy and rule in the Let Them Theory book is that from this point forward, go through life and see every adult is an eight-year-old in a big body.
And when you do that, something fascinating happens. Instead of being scared of people who are challenging or narcissistic or passive or immature, you actually can let them be and you feel compassion.
And you also realize it's not your job to make excuses for somebody who is immature.

It's not your job to change somebody who has a narcissistic personality style.

It's not your job to take away somebody's disappointment or sadness.

You need to let them.

And when you do it, it's the ultimate boundary because then you separate your emotions and energy from someone else. And then you say the second part, which is let me.
Let me double down on my values and let me see this person very clearly. Because if I see this person's immature behavior and I visualize the eight-year-old version of them, what I realize is that this is a person who has just never taught the skill of understanding and managing their emotions in a responsible and healthy way.
And I can't teach them that. But if someone's treating you poorly or disrespecting you or has a lack of manners and just decency in life, not saying they're stealing a hundred grand from you, not saying they're cheating on you.
It's honestly the same thing. But just other things that are like, huh, that doesn't feel good.
Yeah. How do you let them, but then also create a boundary with them or communicate to them, hey, this doesn't work for me anymore.
I want to let you do this, but also this doesn't work in this relationship for me. Correct.
How can we do that in a way that is not angry and mean towards them or reacting emotionally, but just creating a healthy, conscious communication? Okay, great. Excellent question.
Because that sounds like part two where you're letting me, you're taking your power back and you're saying, now I'm going to communicate how you can treat me. Yes.
Like these behaviors don't work. Right.
If you want to do that, I'm going to let you do it, but not with me. Bingo.
Right. See, here's the thing.
Who is the power in a narcissistic relationship? I guess the narcissist if the other person's allowing it to happen. Correct.
But you're only allowing it if you see it happening and you make excuses for it and you stay. Yes.
So if you let them reveal who they are, and so this is a very important point, you are not allowing people to abuse you. In fact, what the let them theory does is it helps you wake up, perhaps for the first time, and actually see somebody very clearly as they are and not make an excuse because people's behavior is the truth people can say anything that they want but if you watch their behavior someone tells you exactly who they are and they tell you what their priorities are and where you fall in those priorities so let them reveal who they are and if you are in a situation with any human being and you let them be who they are.
And if you are in a situation with any human being and you let them be who they are and they reveal to you that they are emotionally abusive or narcissistic or they don't call back or they keep saying that they're going to stop drinking and they don't or they promise that they're not going to raise their voice, but they do. Let them.
Because your power is not in trying to change them because you can never change another human being. Human beings only change when they feel like it and they are not going to change for you.
People only change when they feel like changing for themselves. And so trying to make someone else change or wishing that they would change, that's not where your power is.
Don't put your time and energy there. Let someone reveal who they are.
And then say the second part, which is let me. Let me remind myself that I always have power because I can leave any conversation.
I can leave any interview. I can leave any date.
I can leave any relationship. I can leave any dining room table.
Any job. Any job.
Anytime I choose. And so, you know, I also say this knowing the research.
I used to work at domestic violence hotline. And when I was a public defender, we had a tremendous amount of training in crisis intervention.
And I know you've covered this topic a lot, and you understand trauma and have written about it extensively. And I say this in abusive relationships, this is a life-changing tool for you to say, let them.
And here's why. On average, at least the research I saw last, it took a woman seven times of leaving, to leave for good in a domestic...
Wow. Why is that? And here's why.
I'll tell you why. The reason why is if you look at brain circuitry and you look at all that research that scientists have done on addiction, and there's this famous study, I'm going to get it completely wrong, it's part of my brand, to just like kind of some of the details, get the gist of it.
So they put these poor rats in two different cages. And in one of the cages, they give the rats all the sugar that they want or heroin or I don't even know what they were getting these rats.
Yeah, some addictive substance. Right.
And it's on tap. And of course, they're like tap, tap, tap, but then they kind of get a little tired of it.
In this cage, they put the rats in with the same sugar or heroin or whatever, but they gave it to them randomly. So you would tap it once and get your hit, and then you'd go back and it's watering.
And then you hit it again, and then maybe it comes again. And then you hit it a couple more times and it's water, and then you hit it again.
It's called intermittent rewards. It is the exact same mechanism as pulling a slot machine.
Sometimes you win and then you got to pull it 23 and then you win again. And it's that lack of predictability, which by the way, is the exact same mechanism with social media.
Because when you're scrolling, for those of us that have been caught doom scrolling, this is not your fault. the algorithm's designed this way.
It's designed to feed you things that are like a dopamine hit, and then you get a bunch of boring crap. But have you ever noticed as you start to talk to yourself, I got to go to bed.
I really need to go after this. And then you hit one thing, and then you're on for another.
It's intermittent reward. And so in the cycle of an emotionally or physically or sexually abusive relationship, what happens is the relationship cycle is one where it's calm and then the abuse and then the apology and then it's calm.
And the fact that it's not always like it negatively the whole time makes you do what we all do when we're on social media. I know that I need to do something, but...
And there's a moment of like some goodness or something happening that's good. Yes.
And so you... You want that to happen all the time, but it's not...
Correct. And the world's leading experts, you've had Dr.
Ramani Diversola on a number of times here, leading expert in the world on narcissism. She has said that the single biggest problem in a narcissistic relationship, whether it's your mother or the person that you're dating or a brother or sister or friend, is the hope that they will change.
Oh, God, that's so hard. They won't change.
Well, no. They might on their own.
Likelihood is not. Yeah.

But... is the hope that they will change.
Oh, God, that's so hard. They won't change.
They might on their own. Likelihood is not.
Yeah. But I think that you can hold out the belief that people can change, and at the same time, you can live in the reality of who they actually are right now.
Yes. And that's the power of letting them.
You're not letting them do anything to you. You're letting them reveal exactly who they are through their behavior.
And for the first time, you are not explaining it away. And that is the biggest issue that people also face in dating.
We're so terrified to be single. And I get it.
I've been married a long time. I have two daughters that are ...
One is single, the other's in a relationship. And the obsession with not wanting to be the single friend.
Right. Like how awesome it is to have plans on the weekend.
Like the fear that you have that you're not going to meet the one. And the problem is that we are so married to the fantasy that we chase the potential and you don't see the reality of the person that you're actually with.
And the explaining a way of behavior is the single biggest reason why you'll waste years of your life or months of your life with the wrong person, because you're up here going, well, if they'd only lose some more weight, or they'd be more motivated, or they didn't watch golf all weekend, or treated me nicer, then maybe. No, this is exactly who this person is.
Well, I once heard someone say that if you're not changing it, you're choosing it. If you're not changing the situation, or changing your relationship the situation or changing your environment, you're choosing that environment, choosing that relationship, choosing that job, whatever it might be.
And you can speak up and you can communicate, hey, this is something that I would like to create within this relationship, within this career, within this job. And I'm not happy with my current situation or this is what's working for me, but this isn't working for me.
How can we evolve this relationship? So I think you should have the conversations. You have to, that's the let me part.
Don't just say, screw this person and I'm gone. No, no.
Communicating with courage, with consciousness of like, here's what I do appreciate about you. Yes.
Here's all the good that is happening. Absolutely.
And here's some things that I would like to improve on. Yes.
Can we improve in this situation, in my relationship or my career or whatever it might be, our friendship?

If not, okay, it's information.

Maybe I'll stay as invested with you.

Maybe I won't.

Correct.

Maybe I'll stay in this job.

Maybe I'll look for a new job and try to find some other situation.

But if you're not changing it, you're choosing it.

Yes.

Yes.

And when you're choosing it, you've got to accept it. If you don't accept it, you got to start having a conscious conversation to change.
Yes. That's exactly right, Lewis.
And here's the cool part. No human being is perfect.
Of course not. And we can all learn skills.
And so whose responsibility is it to create the relationship that you deserve? See, I think it's your responsibility. And the way that you do it is you allow someone, you let them be who they are.
And then you come back to yourself and anything that's annoying you or frustrating you or that you're griping to your friends about, whether it's work or it's a friendship or your parents or whatever, that's the let me part. Yes.
Let me either stop about this because that's the only way that you know how you accept it. Accept them.
Stop complaining. Or let me sit down and be the emotionally mature one and make the request.
So Chris has done this with me, so I'll play this out this way. So you're good friends with my husband, Chris, and you know Chris.
He's like Mr. Men's Retreat, Deaf Doula, Zen, amazing man.
And I, you know, if you go into our bathroom, Lois, Chris's counter... Clean.
Organized. Oh, I have to say you do.
No, I know, because this is my bathroom. It's unclean, you're organized.
And when Martha puts something on my mind, you have a whole other separate counter. We're not sharing a counter.
We have two sinks for a reason. And yours is three times the size of mine for a reason.
You don't have to put your blush on my side. I like it clean.
You know what I mean? It drives you crazy, doesn't it? Crazy. Okay, so it's burnt.
Mine is just like Martha's. It looks like the CVS aisle tipped over on top of it.
And it's like, she can't even see what she has because there's so much stuff. Yes.
So it drives Chris Bananas. He has learned to let me.
Now. Now I let her on her side.
Correct. Correct.
But when the brush comes onto your side, which I do too, because I walk over and fucking, I put it down and I walk back. So here's the thing though.
If it really starts to annoy you, it's not bad. Yeah.
You're not going to be able to control her, right? You are starting to get annoyed, so now you know it is actually draining some energy. The power is not in controlling her, it's in your response.
So you go to Mark, Chris comes to me and says, Mel, I love you. The real trigger for Chris is cardboard boxes.
Cardboard boxes? Oh, yeah, because what happens is they show up. And then Chris is yeah, yeah.
And then Chris's mister, slice them down, flatten them, stack them. Organize them, recycle them, whatever, yeah.
Yes, stack them in the garage in a certain way. They got all stacked up.
He likes to put one in boxes, I don't know, like, I don't know. And he would ask me, when the boxes come in, you empty them, please slice them.
And I would do it some of the time. Uh-huh.
But most of the time what I do is I just stack them next to the door to the brush. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and let him do it.
Well, that's not what I mean. You're going to do it.
I mean to come down at the end of the day. Yeah, later.
Yeah, you know, you're tired of it, yeah. So Chris would come in, and he'd see them, and he has asked me multiple times.
Uh-huh. So, of course, it stresses him out and pisses him off and annoys him.
Yeah. But what he did is he sat me down because there's a big difference between what you intend and the impact it has on another person.
Yeah. If you scream at someone or scold them or shame them, you're not going to get a good response.
Correct. But if you sit down consciously when things are calm.
Correct. Not in that moment.
Just say, hey, in a loving way, I love you. I appreciate you.
I appreciate all the good that you do for us and our relationship. We have a beautiful home.
We have three amazing children. And I'm like, now spit it out, Louis.
What did I do wrong? Yeah, exactly. And there's just one thing that I would love to create an agreement with.
Yes. Can we create this agreement together? Yes.
And what support would you need in order for us to have this agreement work? I said an assistant.

There you go.

It's true, though. But what he said to me was this.
He said, every time I see those cardboard boxes there, it's like a giant middle finger to me. Like, you don't love me.
You don't respect me. You don't care about me.
You don't appreciate me. Correct.
You think I'm your maid. And I have asked about this.
And when he explained it that way, what happened is it tapped into my intrinsic motivation because I value how he feels. Of course.
And when he communicated that way and he let me know, now I am motivated to do it because I know why it matters. And this is really important.
When you communicate something to someone that it matters to you and they don't do it, you have to let them. And here's why.
Let them and then what? It depends on the issue. Because if he sits you down and says,

this really matters to me. Cardboard boxes.
It's more about feeling disrespected. But if I repeatedly then ignore it.
Then what? Well, Chris has to choose. Choose what? To either talk to me again or if it's a big enough issue, Louis, is this the right relationship? Interesting.
Do I want to be with somebody who I sit down and repeatedly share my feelings and my needs with, and then they do not do anything? Or they say they will, but then they don't. Yes.
And the behavior shows that I don't matter. But also people could say, well, he could also just look at it and say, don't take it personally and just, who cares? Accept that you are.
She's not going to see the boxes and just let it go. It doesn't matter.
It's deeply personal. And this is why it's important to understand where your control is, because what's ultimately going to happen is if you have an issue with somebody in your life, whether it's your parents or your boss or whatever, and you've addressed it in a very mature and loving way, and nothing has changed, it's likely not going to.
And then it comes back to you. Let me choose.
What to do next. Yes.
What do I deserve? And if it's somebody who repeatedly, like,

let's take it to the context of dating, because this was an example that's kind of funny and relatable. But if you're in a relationship with somebody and you want to take it to the next level and they don't want to put a label on it.
No. Is like, are those the table scraps you're take? Right.
If they're sneaking out early in the morning, like some stray cat, is that actually, seriously, is that the love you deserve? I mean, I get up early and go to the gym, I'm not sneaking out for you. But you know what I'm saying? Sure.
Because what we then do is we go up into our minds and we start explaining away the behavior. Yeah, of course.

You get a little drip of dopamine every once in a while.

You're like, oh, I wish I'd get that more frequently.

Yes.

And if only I can be closer to them.

If only I can spend more time with them.

Maybe if I learn how to play golf.

Maybe if I...

Like that now you're changing yourself because you refuse to let the person reveal who they

are.

And there are no mixed signals.

You're either a priority or you're not.

Thank you. because you refuse to let the person reveal who they are.
Oh, man. And there are no mixed signals.
You're either a priority or you're not. 100%.
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What is that like psychologically when you're like, okay, I just ate too much or I just want to look skinnier and need to lose weight, But I'm numbing myself by eating because I am protecting myself. I feel ashamed of past or I feel whatever.
I'm anxious. So I'm numbing myself by eating.
But now I feel shameful and guilty that I ate. So I need to purge it.
I remember just like getting up, looking in the mirror and being like, I hate you. Wow.
Like I had so much hate towards myself. And I was just, I just had like tears rolling down my face.
And I was like, I don't, I don't want this anymore. I don't want to live like this.
I can't live like this because it's going to end badly. I could feel it.
And I also knew carrying down that road was like the easy way out because I was so good at taking everything down in my path. But like you didn't know it, but like I was like mass destruction was a skill that I could that I had mastered.
Really? But you were looking on the outside. People are always surprised by this stuff stuff and that's honestly why i share it

and why i felt i needed to because but you're good at hiding it though right you're going to be like very okay it's it's noon the next day i'm put together oh yeah it's fine i'm happy yes and then you know i that that moment there is when I so vividly saw like these two roads of life, right? And this like gorgeous tree in the middle. And I just so vividly remember this moment.
And it was like, you can keep going here and we know where that's going to end up or you can you can choose to create this different path for yourself and it's going to be really hard because it's going to be everything you don't know but it can it's like the path of like waking you the up. And I just remember I was like, okay, I'm, I, I want it, but I need help.
And that was the biggest moment for me because from being a little girl who thought that she could fix every single thing. And like, I carried the weight of everyone and my siblings, and I have always been the savior and coming in and trying to do all the things and, you know, buying my parents the house and like anything that I could do to save everyone.
But I was, I was just not saving saving myself so it was this moment of like giving over and not relying on my own strength for the first time in my freaking life and that was like that was like the the doors opened so you're in your mid-20s you You have, I guess, you know, a darkness that continues for months or years until there's a moment where you're like, okay, there's two roads I can take. I've had a few of those moments in my life.
So I know that feeling of having to make a decision. Yes.
And, you know, I grew up, when I was eight, my brother went to prison. So every weekend for four and a half years, we would go as a family to visit during visiting hours.
And I saw my life starting to go down as well. When I was 13, I had to make a decision.
And I remember saying, do I want to end up in prison? Because if I keep doing these things, which were not massive at the time, but will build. It builds.
It'll build. And you're going to keep getting in trouble and bad things are going to happen.
Bad things are going to happen. Bad things are going to happen.
And do I want to live that life and deal with that pain and shame? And I just saw what that will, you know, and I saw all the other convicts in the, and I got to know them and the traumas and the pain that they caused their families from bad decisions. And it was just like, do I want that or not? And I and so you had this in your mid 20s and you you knew that you couldn't do it all on your own anymore.
And you said, I need support. So what did you allow yourself to do after that? I called my friend and asked for her therapist number i was like i need help i need your therapist and like that was like the start but i lied to me i mean i like lied to my therapist i was taking adderall you know i i like i did want help but it is really hard to break the cycle sure yeah and Yeah.
And to break the patterns. And I was lying and she would she was strong.
She was like the mother that I always kind of like needed to anchor me and call me out on me. Tough love.
Super tough love. So, you know, I would come in all like Adderall out and I was like buying Adderall.
It was just it was like I got rid of one thing and I was looking for the next. You said you wanted help, but really inside of you, you're like, eh, I still can do this myself and I'm not going to give everyone the full picture.
I think I did really want help, but when you are so used to attaching yourself to chaotic things to keep moving forward, it. It takes time.
Well, it doesn't feel safe to be in a safe space because you're not familiar with it. I don't even know what that...
So harmony doesn't feel safe. Right.
Peace doesn't feel safe. No.
Because you're like, wait. What's going to happen? Something's about to happen.
Yeah. Where's the chaos? Oh, yeah.
You're always looking for it because you're so used to it, it's familiar. So when safe isn't safe and you don't know how to feel calm in harmony, you're always looking to recreate chaos, whether it be in a relationship or whether it be in your own life or addictions or whatever it might be.
Oh, and I was very good at if the chaos wasn't there, I will bring it. Isn't that interesting? Oh my God.
And relationships, things with friends, like being able to really self-reflect and see where you are just a disaster in disguise. Like it is hard work.
And I will be so honest with you today like i still to this day wake up and my first thought first from the moment i wake my eyes after doing this work for so many years goes to a dark place really yes but i now know how to get myself out and it's just it's i think when it's so embedded in your nervous system it it takes so much time to to get yourself out of that place and i know now i know when i'm i know when i bringing it. I know when I'm being self-destructive and I'm definitely so far from that part of me, but she's in there, let me tell you.
And I have great access to her if I need her. But, which is also a good thing, which I've learned to really embrace and love and be like, you are fiery pistol god knows if we need it it's there and the access is quick but i don't i'm just being honest i mean you know what is the first thought that comes to you on a daily basis when you wake up or on a typical day where does that dark thought it's like the overwhelm it's just like oh my god oh that you know it's just it's that immediate almost like being on that wheel of anxiety but i step off now and i'm like no no you know and this is where i've cultivated this practice and this connection with source and knowing that i can connect at any moment in any time.
And that is what helps me see like the light of day. And I, you know, I shared this once on, I was doing a Q and A and I shared this and it was like the most viewed thing I had.
And I realized that there is still that part of me, right, that wants to like make things look really pretty with a bow. And of course, I've cracked myself open, but there's still so much.
And I think that is where I'm at right now today, where I'm like, I am so done just like ripping off these masks and really just being so radically transparent with myself, but also with people who are ready to do it for themselves too. Because it's not just for me.
And I think that's where this work has fueled something in me that I've always known was in there since I was a little girl but it's it's this choice every single day like to this day it's like I'm choosing I'm choosing to stay devoted to myself so when you started you know kind of waking up from doing destructive things into creating a more healthy lifestyle for yourself 15, 17 years ago. Yeah.
And you went down that journey and you started these healthy practices. You said, okay, I'm going to reach out for support.
I'm going to find a therapist, even though I'm still lying to my therapist. I'm doing the steps, though, and I'm like in the work.
And then what else did you start doing to develop a healthy practice for yourself were you still nightclubs and you know modeling and doing these things that weren't supporting you or were you removing yourself as well from environments so instead of like for me instead of focusing on removing one thing that really helped me when I was in it and still when I feel overwhelmed, it's like, what can I add in to help like make me feel just an ounce more at ease? And when my therapist started really calling me out on things, then it was like, okay, I can't even lie to her. Like I just I just have to be to be honest.
So it was like, that was, that shtick was old. I couldn't do that anymore.
But then I was finding, I was feeling this, like I need to be told, like I need to be told what to do. So I started seeing a health coach and I remember the first time I walked in and I was like, okay, give me the diet.
Like that, I was in that mindset of like tell me the thing i'll do it and then i'll see results and you know i was trying to lose weight because i wanted to be a model and at this point i had gotten signed by a top agency but it was like i lost like 15 pounds and i lost 15 pounds and then it was just this long road of torture because i thought that i was very into fitness and very into wellness but my relationship to myself was still so disconnected that i was looking outside of myself for all of the resources so i was taking what a trainer would tell me to do. You needed to do 45 minutes of cardio and then 45 minutes to an hour of strength training.
And I became psychotic with that. So it was like every day, an hour of this.
And I was working out two hours a day, writing down every morsel of food. It was so obsessive.
It's exhausting. It was exhausting.
It was unwellness. Did you feel like you were getting, when you looked in the mirror, were you like, oh, this is working though? Or were you like, I'm still not getting the results I want? So when I was in the height of really just, it was like micromanaging every single thing, I did get really, really thin, but it was unhealthy.
And I just looked, it was painful. You didn't feel healthy.
No, I didn't feel healthy. And then, plus when you're suffering from needing disorder, the flip can happen too, where then I started gaining a lot of weight.
Yeah. I was like, when I was doing all the crazy workouts, HIIT workouts and running myself into the ground, I was actually at my heaviest.
Really? Yes. Because it was just, you know, pumping my body with cortisol.
I was so stressed out going into workouts, stressed out leaving. And that was like a big moment in my life.
I remember so vividly leaving a super popular class with a popular instructor. And there's no shame because things work differently for people.
And I think that this is where we need to cultivate these relationships with ourselves and see what really makes you feel in harmony with yourself. And I just remember, I like got off the train, 14th street and I was walking and I was like, I feel horrible.
How am I paying to feel worse? What is wrong? And I was just like, I think I'm just, I was just searching. And then I started meditating.
I felt this. How old are you now? Roughly.
So this was at this point. I, it was like 12 years, 15 years ago.
I'm 41. You do the math.
2026, 2027. Exactly.
Late 20s. And I've, you know, I still felt this, although I was slowly, it was like becoming more self-aware, like patching things up as I was going.
But I felt that I was, I was just out here for all the answers. Tell me and I'll do the thing.
And I was covered in cystic acne. Really? I had horrifying cystic pimples all over my face, my neck, down my back.
And I did everything. It was like I saw every dermatologist.
I did Accutane. It was just – it was awful.
And now I realize like that was my – how I internalized my anxiety for so many years. It was coming out in my skin.
It was the stress. With a combination of products I was using and food for sure, environment.
But it was my nervous system. Like trying to like bang on my door.
And I just felt like, you know what? I've got to go in here. Like I've got to like almost because I think when you are so dysregulated, you don't even know what home and safety is.
So there was just this feeling that I felt I needed to take all of that and come in here. Wow.
So you started meditating. I started meditating.

I've meditated every day since.

Wow.

And that's how I'm here.

And I can tell you that for a fact.

I know that with everything inside of me because it was the thing that helped me see myself for the first time for like who I really was and not any persona or facade that I had put on. And I was really interested in wellness, but because my relationship with myself was still so dysfunctional, it was the thing that helped me look in the mirror and like find so much like deep love, like true love for for me and for my skin and loving myself through my acne and not being at my happy weight.
And it just helped me. It was like almost like just like defogging the lens and everything got like a little bit brighter.
Wow. How much on a scale of one to 10 before this, what was your self love scale? 10 being like you really loved yourself from an authentic conscious place.
One being you hated yourself. Like where were you on that? I was probably like a three, four work that I was doing from like a, from a one two so like I was and and that set doesn't sound like progress but it is yeah and I think that's the thing that I you really hated yourself before that I hated myself because of my actions yeah I wasn't proud you're out of like alignment with yourself.
Complete. Completely disaligned.
And when you can, I was very much focused on the physical. And then once I realized that I could regulate from bringing some calm to my mind, even just a little bit, wow.
Then I started moving differently. And this is when I started understanding like, no wonder why, like, I don't like those classes are not working for me because they make me feel really stressed out and anxious.
And they bring out all that stuff that I'm like really working towards shifting. And then I started blending elements of Pilates and yoga.
And it was like, I was just weaving these things together, but it felt like this like inner dance with myself, but it felt good. And I was not punishing myself for what I ate anymore.
And I was just literally in flow. Like it brought me in this flow state.
And at this time I didn't even have 10,000 followers on Instagram, but I just felt this, like, it was like, I have no idea how, what, where, like what you're going to do, but like you have to share this and you have to share this because you have to come back to that seven-year-old little girl who was looking outside the window when your dad drove away, when my parents separated. And I felt like this is it.
Like this is unfortunately, like this is the car that I've been dealt and this is my life. And I think so many people who come from broken situations or even bad marriages feel like this is it.
And it's not it. And you can change the course of your life at any point.
Every moment is an opportunity to begin again, to do something different than you did the day before that just helps you feel so deeply connected to yourself and you know I talk a lot about meditation and movement and that is how I created a platform but as I'm at this point in my life today, it's from being so connected to whatever it is you connect to. But to me, it's the creator.
It's this higher power, so much greater than me. And when I close my eyes and I meditate and I go in and I bring bring the energy to my heart, it's what – it's like I feel so surrounded and so safe and just reminded that like I am being divinely guided.
And we all are when we can get ourselves to just take a moment. And I mean I did it in the morning for 20 minutes this morning.
Before speaking, I always like to really, really ground. So 20 minutes is like, I love that.
However, that doesn't always happen. I am so consistent, but I'm super flexible.
You have to be. Because I was crazy with all the things before.
And I'm not disciplined. I don't even love the word.
It doesn't work for my nervous system because it makes me feel like I'm rigid and I write things down. I need to track and I need to know how many macros.
I'm just like, I don't know and I don't care. But when I'm feeling this, where I'm feeling this aliveness and this excitement for, honestly, it's so interesting because I feel like I've

been there so much, so many deep challenges with work and just all of the things that come with being an entrepreneur. But I am so excited for no reason.
It feels so good just to be like, Show me, like guide me.

And through staying so deeply connected is what has just continued me on this path of like cracking me open, had me set up that $24 tripod I got on Amazon, setting up my phone. I had no lights, no camera, zero editing.
I mean, I literally would, I would press play and I'd be like, hi. And I would go and run back on my mat and then I'd be like, okay, today.
And I would just like do the thing that I did myself, but I brought people along with me. And then the more that I started doing it, it was like, people were like, like, can you do that longer? Like, where can I get this clip? And, you know, it was like Instagram stories when I first came to life.

And then I just felt this.

I was like, I need a home for these humans who want the same thing.

We all want it.

We all want to be, you know, when I come back to like my why every day, I just want to wake

people up to this inner strength within themselves. That's it.
That's what I have to do for myself every single day. And through sharing it, it was just like, it was crazy.
I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that I was connecting with people all over the world who were like, thank you so much.
And they were writing me these letters and I'm sobbing. And at this point, I'm pregnant with my son and also coming to this place of like, I know what it feels like to be brought up in a disconnected home and like wanting to be so connected to it all, whether it was a little chaotic or completely, you know, a sense of calm.
I just, I wanted to be with it.

And it's just been this incredible journey of what's next.

That's incredible.

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The thing that I'm hearing you say, which I really love, is that when you started to, it sounds like your seven-year-old self was screaming at you during your adult life when you were doing things out of alignment with what she wanted,

right? When you weren't protecting her, when you weren't showing up for her, she was screaming at you in different ways. She was like, you know, the acne was coming out, you're, you know, going against your body by binge eating or binge drinking or, you know, late nights, all these different things.

And she didn't feel safe with you as an adult trying to take care of her because you weren't taking care of her. And so she felt unsafe, right? And when you treat your inner child poorly as an adult, bad things happen in your life or you don't feel good, right? And you're not attracting abundance.
You're not setting yourself up to be able to manifest your vision. You're not bringing the right relationships in your life necessarily.
And things feel off. You feel out of alignment because you're not taking care of the inner being inside of you that needs cared for.
And what it sounds like, I'm hearing you say, is when you said, okay, these two paths I can take, continued destruction or, you know, reconnecting to self and doing better choices, that's when you started and you started to really be present with yourself and take time to listen to the still small voice, which is God, I think, and also your inner child. Yes.
It's almost like the voices of both combining and saying, what does the inner child need and what is God directing me to do? I love, exactly. And when you are able to meditate for a minute or 20 minutes a day or however long you do on a daily basis, you can hear the decisions you need to take today.
And you can be guided on what you need to do in the next step. Even though you don't know what's to come or you feel I'm uncertain or what should I what's the future going to bring? When can listen to yourself and and where you're guided

you can take action on what is needed today and it sounds like you've been doing that for now 10 15 years and by doing so and continuing to be in alignment with your intuition by serving your inner child and by serving the higher power for yourself abundance and manifestation becomes easy, easier.

And you just said, like, I didn't even

have 10,000 followers. And I just started taking these actions and doing what felt right to me and being consistent for 10, 15 years.
And because of that consistent, integrated, authentic actions, it's like, ah, manifesting everything. I'm on the cover of these magazines and this is growing and audiences.
And wow, these things are just happening for me, right? But if you were going down destructive paths, this wouldn't be happening. No, of course not.
And that's why I say, I know I am here because of my practice. Yes.
Because my practice keeps me grounded to myself. It keeps me completely locked in with what matters most to me.

And like the thing that matters most to me in my life is having peaceful balance, peaceful

harmony in my life, in my workplace, in my relationship with my family, with my friends,

with every single thing that I do.

And it's so interesting the more that I just kind of like give over because I can be a little bossy. Definitely bossy.
You're like my team when they're watching, they know. No, they know, but I'm not a micromanager.
But I am a number eight on the Enneagram and that has really helped me understand as an active controller.

That's why I've remained the CEO, no matter what every single person told me that I needed to hire a CEO. I just, it never felt 100%.
I've tried and tested a lot of things that were other people's ideas, and let me tell you, they don't work. I hate to say it.
And that's where I'm not always right. But when something feels completely wrong or I have nothing, do nothing.
Do nothing. Nothing.
I'm in such a flat place right now. And I feel, oh, my God.
What do you mean? Like you're not taking on new projects or you're not like launching new stuff or what? I'm just, I am being.

And it's wild what happens.

Yes. Like it just, it's so interesting because, you know, there is this part, like I've tried things.
I've had PR. I've done all of these things.
And I think when your mission is so big and you want to really spread your message as far and as wide you try things and even when it feels against the grain but i am such a sensitive energetic person that i've just really learned that i have to listen to that and when something just feels like even an ounce of force, like, listen, I could have pitched, you know, had Dylan on my team, reach out to everyone on all the pod. But I'm like, no, that is not the way for me.
It's through true, authentic connections. And like, I just know that, right? It's like, we met in the way that we were meant to meet.
You reached out so fluke. By the way, it was so nice.
I was like, oh, this is just like so me, like so organic and it felt raw. And that's when I think the most incredible things come into your life when you're not gripping.
Or forcing. Or forcing.
Yeah, and trusting the timing of things.

Yes.

You know, I tell my fiance, Martha.

I love her.

She's always like, I wish we would have met like 10 years ago.

Like we would have had such a lot.

Like our life would have been so much better and we wouldn't have been through so much pain and relationship breakups and stuff like that.

And I'm like, I wouldn't have looked at you the same way 10 years ago because I wasn't ready for you.

I wasn't ready to be in a loving, peaceful relationship.

Like I wasn't ready.

Thank you. I wasn't ready to be in a loving, peaceful relationship.
Like I wasn't ready. I would have been like, oh, you're like an attractive, like beautiful girl who's really talented, but you don't have enough wounds for me.
You know, it's like you're not a project I need to like help out or something, right? And I wasn't attracted to that.

I wasn't attracted to peace. Oh.
So I would have created, you know, I would have hurt you probably, you know, I'd have probably done something wrong or I'd have been like, you know, whatever. I just wouldn't have been ready.
That's so honest. It's so true.
And I needed to go through my own healing journey to feel ready for peace because I didn't have peace inside of me still. And so I needed to be peace before I could have peace in my environment.
And she's like, oh, that makes sense. But timing is everything.
I agree with that. And, you know, until sometimes we have breakdowns, unfortunately, like you had a big breakdown when you're in your mid-20s.
Then you were ready for a breakthrough, right? And unfortunately, it wasn't sooner. We all wish we had peace and less pain and sadness and things we did poorly sooner.
But timing is everything when you can trust in a higher power. So do you believe in God? I do.
For me, it's like it is this it's a higher power. Yeah.
And where was your life when you weren't believing in a higher power versus where you do now? I mean, it was disconnected. Yeah.
There was no anchor and there was no contentment, like just like feeling never happy. Oh, my God.
Contentment is such a never good enough. Right.
Never good enough. No, no, no, no.
And I mean, I relate so much to your story with Marta, who I love, by the way. She's amazing.
with Noah. Like Noah, I feel like he was like a saving grace in my life because he's so calm.
He's so grounded. He's like everything that I just was so unknown for me.
And it was a massive part of me being able to drop into myself and to really go deep and do the work because I felt safe with him. And I felt this safe sense in my life that really, I think when you do have that, and it's very important that while he brought so many elements of that, I was discovering it within myself.
I wasn't look, I, oh, by the way, when we first started dating, I was like, he's going to save me. Thank God I need to be saved.
I thought he was going to save me. He was going to like, and then he wasn't.
Really? Yes. I remember like he would wake up in the morning and he was like so happy and he would like be so excited for his day.
And I would, I hated what I was doing. Wow.
And I was just like, how do you feel like that? And like, how do you find your thing? Like I was so, I was like, the grip was so tight and I was just searching and he was like, just try to, and I have, I still, it's hard for me to focus. Definitely undiagnosed ADHD.
I mean, it's just, it's there. But he said, if you can just like pay attention to like the thing that you're interested in.
And for me now, it's like pay attention to the thing that like lights you up and just give it a little focus, focus a little bit on it. And I was like, okay.
And I'm like, what the fuck does he mean? Like I'm fit modeling. And then it was funny because during my, like I would be fitting all day and I like worked as a fit model for years, but I was like making bank and it was like guaranteed cash.
It's good money every day. It was amazing money.
And I wasn't like a big model, but I was like, I don't even care anymore. Cause that was exhausting trying with these supermodels in the room anyway.
Like, at least I'm making money.

You're in a room and they're like fitting like the jeans and the shirts to you. Exactly.
So you don't have to like be on for photography to like be in the world stage. It's actually not like runway modeling.
You're just like, I get to hang out and the designers are just like fitting to me. Yes.
And I'm getting good money. I was making great money.
And I just remember, like, when things really kind of turned on where, you know, I would go to my fittings and maybe the tech designer was like, oh, I'm feeling really tired. And I'm like, well, what is the first thing? Like, well, how do you go to bed? And what is the first thing you do when you wake up? And then it was like I was coaching.
I started coaching, but I loved it. And then it was like, so when you're unhappy in a situation or if you don't love your job right now, bring a little joy to the job.

You got to dig a little deep.

And like that when I started doing that, wow.

First of all, the lights go on.

And I was like, I am so I love helping people. And it was just like a little thing.
I'm like, well, take magnesium, turn the lights on, put your phone away. And it's like, nothing's changed.
I'm still like sharing all of these things. But then I started working.
So I went to the Institute for Integrative Nutrition online, the online course. And that for me was like, I didn't even want to do it because I hated school.
And I was like, oh God, you have to take tests. And they're like, it's open book tests.
And I'm still was like, oh my God, just the idea of taking a test gives me severe anxiety. But I was like, you know what? I'm going to challenge myself.
And I remember Noah saying, let me get it for you. Let me pay for the course.
And I said, no, thank you. But I have to do it for myself.
If I let you pay, I'm just going to be like, Oh, whatever. I knew that.
So I was like, I have to earn this. You need to invest in it.
I needed to invest. So doing that.
And then I started coaching people for free. I, you know, I would meet them in coffee shops.
And then, and then I, I was, I like pitched myself to this integrative this integrative doctor. He'd never worked with health coaches before.
He hired me. I was the first health coach he ever hired, Dr.
Morrison. Big shout out to you.
Thanks for believing in me. And now they have health coaches in their practice.
But it was like listening to that, the focus for me really helped me understand that like, okay, I couldn't leave my job because I was making great money. But on the evening, maybe a couple evenings a week, I dedicated a little time.
And then the evenings became weekends. And then the weekend became – and then I had people who wanted to pay me.
And then I was getting all these offers. And that was really it like that was when I was like I think I can literally do this live off this and I started coaching full-time and I loved it but I knew there was something missing and I'm in that place right now and it's so fun what was missing I felt like I loved talking through but when I started blending movement, I became alive.

And that was how I started teaching digitally.

And I never, I'm not a trainer.

I never started teaching in studio.

I started teaching online.

And then, you know, I feel like even after all of these years of doing this and I love what I do, I am so grateful and so proud of myself that I'm

like, you did it and you're still doing it and you're going to keep doing it because the unfolding

is what I've learned to really just get excited about, right? And I love speaking and I love

being able to spread this, but also to help people apply their lives and their mess and their stuff

Thank you. and I love being able to spread this, but also to help people apply their lives and their mess and their stuff

to like, to really get them there.

To like hold, you know,

it's like handholding and guiding along the way

that I feel like is something that I love to do.

But there's something that happens

when I'm on stage or speaking

where I feel, I feel at home.

Wow.

For moms or women who want to be moms, but also want to have their careers or have a dream that they want to pursue their art or their music or whatever it might be, what do you say to them before they become a mom?

It's got to be one of the hardest things.

To be a mom full time and then have the energy and the thought capacity to create beyond being a mom.

Thank you. before they become a mom, it's gotta be one of the hardest things.
To be a mom full time and then have the energy and the thought capacity to create beyond being a mom. Well, it was one of the things that I thought would, I thought that they would be opposites.
Before I became a mom, I thought that if I had children, it would steal my creativity, that it would, my creativity would suffer. And what I have learned is that it could not be less true.
Really? It is the opposite. My creativity has expanded so much.
I mean, think of the act of creating a child. It is the most creative you will ever be in your life, right? You are literally creating a human.
You are so tapped in to divine, to creation. To magic.
To magic. Once you create a human, you can create anything.
Like my songs flowed so easy as if God turned on a faucet that just never got shut off. And creating for me is so much more easy and natural and flows.
I mean, first of all, the range of what I feel from becoming a mom, as we said earlier, is so much more wide and like wild. And just live experience in general.
Live experience. So I have so much to pull from.
I mean, I can like harness and transmute all that terror and grief and rage. I told you I went down and witnessed and I can turn them into this beautiful art that still actually sounds joyful somehow.
There's joy in the pain that I'm singing about. But how do you have the energy and the capacity to create? Yeah.
You might have ideas and like it might flow when you have energy and time, but when you're a full-time mom and even if your kids are in school or you have daycare or nanny support every now and then, or babysitters for a few hours a day, you're still thinking about your kids all day long. You're still, your body's still responding to healing after a first few years.
You're still need energy. You're up all night because your child, what's the better? It needs to come in and they sleep with you and they're kicking you all night or whatever it is.
It's beautiful, but it's also challenging. Yeah.
Like how do you have energy during the day to be a full-time mom, a full-time creator and bring in the money to support family? Well, first of all, my husband has since started working for me and now is a partner. Yes.
And so it's amazing. He's bringing more income in from having come in and transformed my business.
Sure, sure, sure. So it's not all on me anymore.
And that has been a gigantic relief. It's want to generate money yeah you know they want to make money also as well as okay i have two things i have two thoughts on this one is i want you to think about the busiest time in your life how productive were you when you only had 30 minutes to be productive very Versus when you had nothing going on and you had all day.

Very productive.

But there's a time you're going to crash at some point. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

You're doing that every day for months.

I crashed this morning.

But Taylor taught me, Taylor Swift taught me when I,

fight song was exploding and we were like, and I met her and I was like,

I don't know what I'm doing.

I have to be in Paris and then Japan.

And then I don't, I don't know how to do this.

And she said, you aren't going to have days off. You are going to have moments off.
You're going to, you're going to draw all your energy back in, in moments at a time. So that's one thing.
Like I can't look right now at my calendar. My calendar is insane.
I cannot look at it for the next three months. It is packed every day.
It's insane. But this is a season of life.
It's a season. It's three months.
Exactly. Exactly.
You're all in. I'm all in.
My husband and I are all in. We have everyone around us supporting us.
You're saying yes to everything. Yep.
So that's where I'm at right now. It's just a season.
I've been doing this long enough to know now this isn't forever. This is right now.
I also have incredible moments off and days off and weeks off because of the career I chose. So there will be a lull and I will get to be around my babies all day long and it will be delicious.
Okay. That's my one thought.
And then the other thought I have is that my spiritual practice has been absolutely essential in keeping my energy up. I didn't have this tool before.
I didn't have this deep connection to God before. And now that I do, I literally give it to God.
I literally say. At Capella University, learning online doesn't mean learning alone.
You'll get dedicated support from people who care about your success. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University.
Learn more at capella.edu. You do it.
I write. I want to show you what I write.
I want to show you. What do you say? I make a check mark for God.
And before a show, I do it before something I'm scared of before a day before an intense performance. I literally write a list of what I'm scared of.
I made this up. I don't know if this is like, people are going to listen and be like, what the hell is she talking about? But I want you to imagine three columns.
The first column, I write down all my fears and

all my worries and all my stress. The second column, I write down my job and I write.

Like, what do you mean?

Like, okay, I'll tell you, I'll give you an example. Let's say I was doing one about the Lewis podcast.
I'm nervous. I love Lewis.
This podcast is huge. I want to do a good job.
I want people to, I want to come off well. I want people to go listen to my music.
I want to be successful, right? What is my job? My job, what God tells me my job is, is to breathe, be in the moment, give it to him and have fun. That's it.
That's my job. And then I write the third column.
What's God's job? And on God's column is everything. Make it go so well.
Make me adorable, hilarious, funny, charming. You do it.
And then like, make it the most successful, make Lewis love it. And like, whatever.
God has all this to do. And then I make a checkbox for him and I crack up and I write, I'm like, right on it.
Go, God, go. Yay.
God, don't worry. You can do it.
God. And I cheer him on.
It's like ridiculous. It's like so ridiculous.
And then I crack up because I look at my job versus God's job. And I'm like, oh, bro, you have a lot of work to do.
I'm gonna go chill. But good luck to you.
And then I come back and I remember to check him off and I give him a pluses. And I'm like, very good job.
And I like give him stickers. And he has not failed me ever.
And that's what I do for energy. What do you think is the difference between putting all the weight and pressure on you to do a good job and perform versus oh my allowing god in your life to deliver i don't have to do anything i have to show up i have to show up and i have to be the clearest boss that i can god is the flowers my job is literally just to be the clearest boss for people to see them and that that's hard work.
It takes hard work to be a clear vase, but I can do that. I can't shine and shimmer.
I can't guarantee people will love me. I can't be delightful and perfect and pleasing, right? But I can do my work to be a clear vase.
I can meditate. I can do my breath work.
I can have therapy. I can work out.
I can keep my body healthy. I can keep my mind healthy.
That's my job in job in being a clear boss right and the pressure's off other than that my job is not what are people going to think of me my job is not how am i going to come off what is the success going to be what is the result going to be it is literally just to be the best version i can when did you start this practice of of giving it up to god in the middle of the darkest depression when i had no other choice A A couple of years ago? Yeah, a couple of years ago when I was completely at a loss on my knees in the studio that you came to a couple of times on my knees in the middle of the night at 2 a.m. My baby had had 105 degree temperature that night.
She was two months old. My husband had passing a kidney stone.
I wasn't sleeping. I was absolutely at the lowest.
My uncle just died. I was at the lowest I've ever been in my life.
I was terrified. I didn't know how to keep going.
And I screamed on the floor of my studio, mercy, mercy, I'm done. Mercy.
And this song came out of me. This song mercy came out of me at two in the morning, like all at once, this rush, this answer of music.
I felt a presence that I never felt in my life. And I've always written with something, but I didn't know what it was that was flowing through me.
And that night I knew without a doubt that that beautiful piece of art came through that pain. There had to be something bigger than me in this world that was listening.
And from then, I just was so hungry for it. And I sought it out and I asked and I searched and I implored God, keep showing yourself to me.

Please, please, please keep delighting me.

Keep helping me.

Keep healing me.

And he did over and over.

And music came, music came, music came, like so much music.

Did you have a relationship to God before then?

I think I did, but I didn't know him and I didn't know.

I didn't understand that he was actually like listening to me and right there and right here in my heart. And that it was someone that I didn't have to go through someone else to get to.
That was the other thing about LA and that this world that we're kind of entrenched in that I think messed me up. I kept thinking there needed to be this intermediary to get me to God.
Like, okay, I'd go to like a medical intuitive or an intuitive or a psychic or a reiki person they connect me and i was so desperate for it that i'd go all the time like i want that i want to understand how to reach you know my creator and you know how to do it for me so you do it and i'd ask people to pray for me for things and like because i had so much fear and i that's where the aloneness felt like what were you afraid of connecting alone like being that no one would be there when i went to ask that no one would hear me like do you feel loved by god do you feel a connection yeah i do i didn't always though i mean growing up i felt very insecure me. Yeah, me too.
I used to go to the principal's office all the time in elementary school and just say, I wish I were dead. I wish I were dead over and over again, because I felt like no one cared.
Obviously, my parents were there for me, you know, obviously like, you know, my siblings, but it's just, you know, I just felt alone. And it didn't probably matter how much someone loved me.
I didn't know how to receive the love probably also. And so for years, it wasn't until maybe 10, 11 years ago when I started my healing journey where I felt a deeper sense of love for self and love for God.
Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you for sharing that. Of course, yeah.
But it's challenging. I know the feeling.
And so everything for me was driving, you know, I can relate to you because I was driven for so long to succeed, to feel loved and accepted. Exactly.
But then it never felt like enough. It never felt like, oh, I'm not getting what I truly want, so let me go get more.
Right. And keep accomplishing.
Exactly. And things started to shift for me 10 years ago where I said, um, I want to, I want to create my life based on a vision that I have to serve people.
Yes. And if I have a dream to write a book or something else, and I can still go for goals, but it needs to be in the service of others.
It needs to be in service is fundamental now in anything I do. I am exactly the same, Louis.
Same. We are so similar in our journeys.
I needed to achieve more and more and more. And we are both very driven people and we have achieved a lot.
And we have both been through the school of greatness and we have achieved great things. And all of your guests, and probably most of your listeners do.
But what we've found is that there is an emptiness in it, right? Unless it is of service, unless you are being asked to be used, unless you are striving is for a bigger purpose. So when you're on your knees screaming mercy at 2 a.m.
in the back of your house. You're like, did neighbors call? I'm curious, like, did you feel a connection to God then? I did.
Was it like the first time you really felt a connection? And if so, what did you hear or experience or notice? Yeah, crying thinking about it because it was so, I mean, it was so powerful and it shifted me so much. And just, I mean, for me, God talks me through songs and songwriting.
So this song that came out of me, it's one of my favorite songs I've ever written. And the fact that I wrote it in 20 minutes was very obvious that it wasn't me writing it.
Wow. So it was- It just came through you quickly.
It came through me very was chasing it and i was like slow down slow down slow down i'm trying i'm slow down i kept saying slow down like the words are coming the words were coming like i was like stop stop stop and my hands couldn't write fast enough and i was like please please slow down i kept saying out loud to anyone slow down and it just was coming and coming and i was like oh my god here's the first okay get back to the piano oh my god and it felt like like an orgasm a musical orgasm it was just wild I was and I had been in so much pain and so much suffering that created peace created freedom it felt like a taste of freedom now it was it did not last right right like it's 2 a.m you're exhausted it was incredible

I woke my husband up I shook him I was like come downstairs I think he had just got back from the hospital he was exhausted he was like oh no like exhausted like please don't make me wake up to hear a song of yours because if I don't like this song right now I am so screwed like he's like I better like this song because you are so not okay right now and i

was like no no kevin it's it's good and i i played it for him with tears in my eyes but you were played it live or you recorded live no no no i i just i come on i did not i don't know if you like recorded on your iphone real quick no i did but like i i had i did i captured it i actually have the recording of me the original yeah me crying through it and i'm like i go in one part i part, I go, Oh, that's good. And I'm like, and then I go, Oh, that's good.
Yeah, you hear me. And then I throw the pen down, you can hear it all.
But I wake him up and I bring him down and I sing it for him and his jaws on the floor. And he's like, what? What? And I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think I think God's using using me i think that there's a reason that i'm i think there's a reason i'm suffering so much right now but i still had to suffer for two more years so like it wasn't all great do you think we have to suffer to create something great oh my god this sucks because i used to like vehemently argue that no, I was so- But Fight Song, you weren't suffering great. Yes, I was.
Really? Yes, you think Fight Song was born from like a chill experience? No. But sometimes you hear people saying they created like a love song out of just like- Yeah, I love- Peace and beauty and- Who are they? I'm so annoyed with them.
Like the Beatles seem to create stuff all the time. They sure did, didn't they? They seem to be having a great time.
Yeah, right? I know, other people do. I don't know what it is with me and God and the muse and like what happens.
But apparently, for me to really reach the depths of things that reach other people, I have to for some reason. I mean, it's a transmutation.
It's alchemy for me. It isn't for everybody, but it is for me.
I alchemize my deep pain and i turn it into art and that's what my vibe is and now i've just come to accept it like cool cool we're gonna work again and we're gonna create again that means i'm probably gonna be crying and but i mean it's not all that i have songs on the record that are also joyful and silly and fun like i'm exaggerating better place was written with me delicately looking out at like a beautiful ray of sun on the trees. So like they're not all like that.
It's just that usually – That moment created a song though. Yeah.
Usually the ones that move people the most for some reason for me are those. I'm not the artist that people turn to I don't think for like the party song.
I think they come to me to feel. Interesting.
Wow. Okay.
So since that happened, you feel like you've had a different relationship to God? Yeah. Yeah.
And what is that relationship now, two years later? It's really intimate and great. Really? I love him.
So you feel like you have a direct channel to God. You don't have to go to someone else.
No, I would never think to go to someone else. That idea seems so wild to me now.
Why would anyone else have my answers?

That doesn't make any sense to me now.

I write every day these dear love letters

that Elizabeth Gilbert is doing.

Have you seen this?

Well, she's asked me to do right.

Lewis!

I've been traveling.

Why are you doing it?

I'm so annoyed with you for turning it down.

I had to turn it down.

I said, yes, I'll do it.

Immediately you have to do it.

I saw yours.

I saw the newsletter that she sent out with yours. It's really powerful.
I didn't turn it down i said yes i'll do it immediately you have to do it i i saw yours i saw the the newsletter that she sent out with yours really powerful and i didn't write it right exactly but you shared it you put it out there so she writes these letters i have it in my inbox for me to do i've just been traveling i was in the olympics i'm so annoyed with you i've so please do it i want to hear what no love says to you and she calls it love maybe that's a more palatable palatable word for everyone listening. Inexchangeable for me.
She calls it universal love. God, it triggers people that word.
But I, what I'm saying when I say that is the one, the creator, the divine, that force of love in the world. And so we write every week, dear love, what would you have me know today? And when you think that you're going to be like, you think it's not going to be the answer, right? You think you're not going to hear anything.
Oh my God. Literally.
Oh my God. Answers pour out of you.
And these are just women, men, normal women and men living their life. These aren't spiritual necessarily like holy people.
These are just people just like us who are hungry for answers, who put the request out there, and they get met with a flood of love and answers and support. And now there's a community on her sub stack of over 100,000 people that are sharing these letters every day with each other.
And it is unbelievably beautiful. I think it's the most beautiful place on the internet.
I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life, and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you wanna make it easier, you wanna make it flow, you wanna feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy.
I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up.
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