The Practical Guide To Making More Money in 2025

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Speaker 2 What would you say is the mindset that wealthy people have around making it and growing their money for them versus the mindset of people that stay stuck in not making it?

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 I want to distinguish, there's big differences in opportunities. Yes.
So let's say, supposing you have two people of comparable opportunities. Yes.
And then they were going to do that.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 The marshmallow test,

Speaker 3 as you know, apparently, is you take a kid and you say, okay, you can have one marshmallow now,

Speaker 3 or you could have two marshmallows in 15 minutes or so.

Speaker 2 If you don't eat the first one. Yeah.

Speaker 3 If you don't eat the first one, right? Yep. Okay.
Once you start to realize

Speaker 3 that deferred gratification

Speaker 3 is going to make you better and so on. And you start to count

Speaker 3 and you say, like something like, how many days, weeks, months, or years can I live if I don't have money come in? And you start to focus in on that.

Speaker 3 That's the first step. Okay, like the marshmallow test.

Speaker 3 Okay, so I want to save.

Speaker 3 You got to start there. Then if you do that,

Speaker 3 you're necessarily going to go save in what?

Speaker 3 And then you'll start to get exposure

Speaker 3 to

Speaker 3 how these things are different.

Speaker 3 Okay, then you start to care.

Speaker 3 I'm going to have one of these and one of those, and you start to experience.

Speaker 3 And then you start to learn. And basically, that's what makes the difference.

Speaker 2 That's it. So, first, having the ability to have delayed gratification, then obviously diving in, researching, testing, and trying different things.

Speaker 2 But the more and more you can say you don't want something now for greater later is the essential key.

Speaker 3 Well, and what it does then when it comes to the money, that means money. Yeah.
Now, at that moment that you don't want it, you have savings. That means I want savings.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 Now you got savings. So the next thing inevitably that's going to come at you is, where do I put it?

Speaker 3 And then you get your choices and then you experience it and you learn, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, because there's lots of places to put it for investments. There's real estate, there's stocks, there's building your own company, there's different places to invest.

Speaker 2 What have you found are the top places that people should be investing?

Speaker 3 Well, I think first

Speaker 3 you start with what are the most important things that you're closest to like is it your business

Speaker 3 first

Speaker 3 calculate how many days weeks months or years

Speaker 3 you can live on your saving

Speaker 3 because when you do that you'll start to you'll gain security you'll gain that okay

Speaker 3 So look at how much you're spending, okay, and then say, how much do I need? And whatever that number is you're going to need more than that

Speaker 3 because it may go down rather than go up so okay now do i have a year spending

Speaker 3 okay you so i think i think you you start there

Speaker 3 then you start to think um what are the things that are most important for me

Speaker 3 like and then you start with your your business or your residence that have a symbiotic relationship and that you know well.

Speaker 3 Let's say if you start with your business, okay, you're closer to that, investing in yourself with whatever that may end up being, that may be your best investment.

Speaker 2 Not real estate, not stocks, not the market.

Speaker 3 Well, it depends.

Speaker 3 If you're doing something where you can do it yourself, and that's the thing. But if you're in a job, and that's not the thing

Speaker 3 you because you're in a different position okay but anyway if you and then i i really think there's something good about your home a basic thing about your home because uh it's nice forced savings

Speaker 3 and it also means that you you fix it up you you know you're saving you find out there's oh well if i add this thing or that thing and you're enjoying it so when you're enjoying it and you're controlling it, and it's yours, and so on,

Speaker 3 that's pretty good. And if you know, if they keep mortgage tax deductions and so on, there might be some benefits to it also, okay? But that's not a black and white answer.

Speaker 3 You know, so you could take a short pencil and say, is it better to rent or buy? Okay, that's a different question. Maybe yes, it, but by and large, am I going to move?

Speaker 3 You know, all of those other questions. But so, when you start with, okay, what is it that's close to home and how much? You need a certain amount that's liquid.

Speaker 3 In other words, you got it in your house, you got to make a mortgage payment or something, and all of a sudden you're, you know, it's not liquid and you lose your job.

Speaker 3 Well, that can cause you trouble. So, how much do I have that's liquid?

Speaker 3 How much do I have that's not liquid? Okay. And you start to get those things right.
Okay.

Speaker 3 Oh, I've got enough liquid, I got enough, okay, not liquid and those other things, okay, pretty soon you're, you're getting yourself in good shape. Yeah.

Speaker 3 You do those things, you know, you're pretty much in good shape. And then you're also having some experiences and then you go beyond that, you know?

Speaker 3 And then, so you start to, okay, what, you know, okay, what's a stock? What's a bond? And then, you know, you learn through experiences.

Speaker 3 I learned through my experiences. I started when I was a kid, 12.
I used to caddy, and I took my caddying money and I put it in the stock market. And I was lucky.

Speaker 3 What happened to me, by the way, is I took my cadding money and

Speaker 3 I bought the only company that I ever heard of. that was selling for less than $5 a share.

Speaker 3 And I thought that that, you know, well, I was really dumb. I thought I'll buy more shares.
So if it goes up, I'll make more money. And it was the only company.

Speaker 3 It was a company that was about to go broke, but somebody, some other company acquired it and it tripled. And I thought, oh, this is an easy game.
And I like it. Easy money.

Speaker 3 So, but, you know, you experiment and you learn.

Speaker 2 You're a very philanthropic individual, you and your wife, your foundation, your company, you give back in a lot of ways. Some might be through donations like computers.

Speaker 2 Some might be through financial. Some might be through just your work and your content on LinkedIn, which is amazing.
I recommend everyone subscribe to on LinkedIn. The content there is amazing.

Speaker 2 You're giving back in lots of ways. I'm curious, what's the greatest gift a rich person or someone with money can give someone who doesn't have money?

Speaker 3 To give the knowledge, teach a man how to fish is better than to give him a fish. I mean, I think you can give them both.
You can give education and you can,

Speaker 3 but

Speaker 3 ability, the capacity to be productive. Because, you know,

Speaker 3 if I can give you the capacity to go out in the world,

Speaker 3 it's like go into a jungle. I give you a knife, and can you live in the jungle? Okay, if I give you that capacity, that's the best thing I can give you.

Speaker 3 That's why I wrote the book and you know, pass it on. I wrote those principles over years and I wrote them down, and that's what I want to pass along.
That's the most important thing. Yeah.

Speaker 3 But, but if you've, but if you've got money, you can help people a lot in a lot of different ways, which is thrilling.

Speaker 2 What would you say then are the three greatest skills that people that aren't financially abundant or that are struggling financially should learn to master in order to be in a better position financially?

Speaker 2 Three skills. What would you say they should learn?

Speaker 3 Well, as I said before, I remember watching the movie,

Speaker 3 David Copperfield with W.C. Fields, and he speaks to David Copperfield.
And he says, he said something like, and I'll put it in dollar terms, you earn $100

Speaker 3 and you spend $105,

Speaker 3 that's misery.

Speaker 3 If you earn $100 and you spend $95,

Speaker 3 you'll have a good life. I mean, it wasn't exactly like that, but it was, but basically,

Speaker 3 I know so many people who don't earn much but are there because if you start to think about what it is that it costs you to live in terms of let's say the basics you know uh give me a bed to uh sleep in give me the uh food let me be educated and so on and so forth i think most people can get themselves in a position

Speaker 3 where,

Speaker 3 you know, they're net positive.

Speaker 3 So if you can be net positive and you could do that that you know that's number one

Speaker 3 you know as i carry that so that's you know that's number one then i guess it was the list that we went to you know the second is you know what do you do next in terms of what do you need what do you invest in you know and then and then you know going beyond it and then they're avoid the following mistake the most common mistake of investing thinking that the investment that did good

Speaker 3 is a good investment.

Speaker 3 People rather more expensive. The things that quite often,

Speaker 3 those markets that did really, really well became more expensive. And everybody, smart money, is all the time

Speaker 3 comparing them and competing.

Speaker 3 So what happens is

Speaker 3 the naive money buys the thing that was hot

Speaker 3 or is hot. The thing that has been terrible, which might be the thing that's beaten down.
So I would say also an important element. Okay, so here's another one that's really important.
Diversify.

Speaker 3 So don't put all your eggs in one basket. Right.
Because what I learned about this

Speaker 3 is that, first of all, all investments

Speaker 3 compete. And it's not easy to tell whether one investment is better than the other, because if people could do that, life would be easy and everybody'd make a ton of money.

Speaker 3 So, and this is a competitive game that's very difficult to compete in. So, it's very difficult to say which one's better or worse.

Speaker 3 You could take experts and you could do all sorts of tests, and you'll find out that they can pick that, and you can't tell whether the worst ones are going to be better.

Speaker 3 So, because of that, you understand that

Speaker 3 even picking the best ones is difficult, and particularly if you're naive.

Speaker 3 Like we spend hundreds of millions of dollars each year on research to try to give us an edge. Okay.
Now you've got to compete with us.

Speaker 3 So competing in the markets is more difficult than competing in the Olympics. You wouldn't go think I'm going to compete in the Olympics, but there are more people who try harder in order to do that.

Speaker 3 So it's a zero-sum game. So, but diversification

Speaker 3 that they're different

Speaker 3 will reduce your risk without reducing your return.

Speaker 3 So if you know how to diversify well,

Speaker 3 so

Speaker 3 that's critical. So I would say, again,

Speaker 3 get your savings right and the reasons I say, I would say

Speaker 3 have great humility about what you don't know. Don't buy the thing that was hot

Speaker 3 just because you think it's hot.

Speaker 3 And then know how to diversify well.

Speaker 3 Those would be the most important things I could convey.

Speaker 2 I love that you talk about the sports analogy, the Olympics. You're speaking my language now as a former football player.
Some of the greatest quarterbacks seem to get not too high.

Speaker 2 They get excited, but not too excited and not too low when things go good or bad.

Speaker 2 How important is that skill to be emotionally resilient on both levels, high and low for you? How important is that skill to be low?

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 it is one of the most important things possible, and it's not easy to do.

Speaker 3 So I needed to

Speaker 3 do two things.

Speaker 3 I found that by writing down my principles and the rules

Speaker 3 and then testing how they would have performed over time, And that's where the algorithms came.

Speaker 3 So that I can basically, just like a machine, play it click, click, click, click, click, okay, with execute the game plan. You know, don't do it

Speaker 3 because I know what the experience is like. The experience is like you're wrestling around with it.
You're losing money.

Speaker 3 The day you put on a trade, it doesn't go either straight up or straight down. It goes against you.
So now, I don't know, you're losing money.

Speaker 3 Okay,

Speaker 3 how much should you lose? What's your game plan? You've got to know your game plan and stick to the game plan. And you can't be shaken out.
And yet

Speaker 3 the emotions are going to cause you to doubt yourself. And plus, it brings you stress.

Speaker 3 All of that. So you have to execute a game plan that's very well thought out, right?

Speaker 3 Then over time, you start to develop some better instincts. Like if you're you're excited and you're going along, be scared.
You know,

Speaker 3 if you're doing something you're really worried about and nobody else is doing it, maybe good. Don't be dissuaded.

Speaker 3 See, the markets are very different than consensus decision making. It's counter consensus because the consensus is built into the price.

Speaker 3 So if everybody loves something, it's expensive. And if everybody hates something, it's cheap.
So where most people say, ah, this is like, oh, what a great company. Okay, Amazon is a great company.

Speaker 3 We got Amazon's a great company.

Speaker 3 Who doesn't got that? Amazon's a great company. Okay.
And then, okay, I'm going to go own Amazon. Okay.

Speaker 3 But if everybody's got that, it's a great company and it becomes increment less great than they anticipated, bam, that baby goes down. So you have to

Speaker 3 start to develop some of those instincts or a game plan.

Speaker 2 And what financial advice would you give to millennials who don't have these tools yet, besides obviously getting your book and starting to practice some of these things?

Speaker 2 But I feel like millennials are overspending more than ever. They're uneducated on finances and their personal finances.
What advice would you have there?

Speaker 3 Pay attention to the feedback you get from the realities you encounter. Yeah.
Okay. I mean,

Speaker 3 you know, pain plus reflection. you will get the pain.
Pay attention to it. Listen to it because you're going to get the pain.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And do you think it's, you have the wealthiest friends in the world, you're friends with, uh, some of the wealthiest people in the world. Do you think it's easier to

Speaker 2 get wealthy, wealthy or stay wealthy? Which one is harder to do?

Speaker 1 Get there or stay there?

Speaker 3 Stay there is definitely harder to do than get there. Getting there can also be like has a certain element of luck.
You know,

Speaker 3 I was in the right place at the right time. I held this thing or bought it, or I am at that company.
I'm working at that company.

Speaker 3 And, you know, all of a sudden it goes from this to that. And, you know, you're holding on to it and it goes.
Okay. That's

Speaker 3 oh, wow. Okay.
It's winning the lottery kind of thing. Okay.
Do that again.

Speaker 3 Okay, and then again, can you do it again? And can you make

Speaker 3 the thing work over and over? And can you hold on to it? And so on. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Because

Speaker 3 that's where, you know, it's like,

Speaker 3 well, using your sports analog, right?

Speaker 3 You know, you can luckily crack it, crack the bat, and, you know, I mean, or whatever, the Hail Mary Pairs and so on. When you have to do it on an ongoing basis regularly,

Speaker 3 that's the test of talent. And that's harder.

Speaker 2 Yeah. When you doubt a decision or maybe just a moment in your life, personal or business related, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 When you're in doubt of something, what is your personal mantra to get you back to a kind of a centered aligned place where you can make a better decisions?

Speaker 3 Well, on the doubts,

Speaker 3 you know, the question is always like, how big of a deal is it? And what is this type of bet and so on?

Speaker 3 And,

Speaker 3 you know, little doubts, no, okay, that's no big thing.

Speaker 3 You know, life and death decisions, those kinds of things, they're big, you know, those are the big questions.

Speaker 3 And what I

Speaker 3 what I realize

Speaker 3 on those is

Speaker 3 doubting is part of that process. You can only be sure a certain amount.
How do you get to the best triangulation?

Speaker 3 In other words, take in from the smartest people and your own thoughts and so on so that you're making that. Understand how reality works.

Speaker 3 And then try to make sure that none of your decisions are the ones that knock you out of the game.

Speaker 3 In other words, like I've got an expression for people who work for me, you can scratch the car, but you can't total the car.

Speaker 3 You know, you could, so realize, okay, you don't win it all.

Speaker 3 you know, you, you, you make your best bets, but don't have the one.

Speaker 3 So you have to eliminate the, the killer ones, because you have enough killer ones, um, and one, and odds are one of them is going to get you. Right.

Speaker 3 So, so, you know, I approach it basically that way.

Speaker 3 You know, try to make the diversification, try not to have any killer, eliminate all of those that are unacceptable and then go for the upside and doubt. But, you know, I'm used to doubt.

Speaker 3 I doubt, you know, there's everything. Every time you put on a position in the markets, for example, I am never sure if

Speaker 3 it would be easy if I knew. So there's a lot of doubt.
Right. So doubt is part of it, but

Speaker 3 don't put yourself in a position that you can have unacceptable.

Speaker 3 Where you go, bro. Ganged around a little bit is okay.
Yeah. Right.

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Speaker 2 So how do you have confidence when you're doubting yourself and you're like, I think this is going to do well based on all the math and the historical evidence and feelings?

Speaker 2 How do you have confidence when you, you know, place that bet?

Speaker 3 I have enough bets that I make the bet so that none, no one of them, I won't allow anyone that'll kill me.

Speaker 3 And then I raise, and I'll typically only want to make bets that I feel good about. And I will have them stress tested my bets by having other people stress test it.

Speaker 3 So yeah, just imagine, I don't know, you're playing a chess game.

Speaker 3 Okay, now, okay, maybe you're a chess master, but okay, what are you going to do? You have to still make a move. So, okay, what's the best thing to do?

Speaker 3 Now, imagine you could ask the best chess masters in the world what you do and think about the pros and cons and and make your decision and and just not make it that also one's going to knock out of the game so it's that you mentioned a team going through the jungle with you and supporting you whether it be mentors or hiring how have you learned to bring together this great team that you've assembled where people are going to disagree with you.

Speaker 2 It sounds like people are going to have different thoughts and be able to free to disagree with you on certain things. How do you know when the disagreement becomes toxic?

Speaker 2 When you can look at it from a point of view of like, okay, I need this disagreeing thought, but when does it become toxic where you actually need to let go of that person in your life or on your team?

Speaker 3 Well, what's so interesting to me, I think, is that immediately your question about the disagreement is toxic.

Speaker 3 That's the first thing that people go to. Somehow they think disagreement is toxic.

Speaker 3 And supposedly, it's because the part of our brain, which is the amygdala, which is this fight or flight, takes disagreement as the equivalent of a fight. And so it anyway gets triggered that way.

Speaker 3 Now, instead,

Speaker 3 imagine it's a curiosity.

Speaker 3 In other words, I view it as a curiosity. I mean, I could tell if somebody's

Speaker 3 wanting to disagree with me or I'm disagreeing with them because I want to hurt them. I mean, that's a different thing.
If you want to hurt them, okay, then that's a different thing.

Speaker 3 But I mean, like, disagreement

Speaker 3 should be a comfortable thing that prompts curiosity and so on and mutual respect. Like,

Speaker 3 how could I ever get along with you if I couldn't disagree with you? I like, how many times,

Speaker 3 you know, I mean, you're going to disagree. Like, you might one thing, another.
Then that's the beginning of trying to find out what's correct and the path.

Speaker 3 So a good partner is going to disagree with you and you have to get past it.

Speaker 3 So the fact that you're asking that question the way it is, which is a normal question that everybody would ask, so reflects the fact that there's a hesitancy for disagreement, like it's a bad thing and it's a fight and it's nastiness rather than just a disagreement that needs to be figured out.

Speaker 2 And how have you personally learned how to disassociate the

Speaker 2 maybe personal attack against your ideas or your position on

Speaker 2 a stance of whatever between between someone personally attacking you and just, oh, this is a curious idea that they have. Let me ask them more about it.
How have you learned how to do that?

Speaker 2 And what advice would you have for others?

Speaker 3 First of all, I learn by it because

Speaker 3 it, you know, like it works.

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 3 you know, like I'm afraid of the opposite. And

Speaker 3 how can I have it helps my decision making? It helps our relationships. What are they going to do? Bottle it up? And I'm going to bottle it up?

Speaker 3 Is that smart? I mean,

Speaker 3 you know, that sounds stupid to me.

Speaker 3 You don't even know what's true. You can't figure it out.
So everybody's confused because nobody knows what each other's really thinking. And then also, like,

Speaker 3 you know, you won't get to the right answer. And I mean, that just is too stupid a path for me, for me to do it.
And it's too risky a path.

Speaker 3 And it's so much rewarding, so much more rewarding to do the the other, right?

Speaker 2 Have you always been like that? Or was it until you went back?

Speaker 3 Well, I

Speaker 3 think what helped me get that way was the markets. Okay.

Speaker 3 Because

Speaker 3 again, what happens is, you know, there's just being right or wrong. There's just a winning or a losing.
And

Speaker 3 okay. So just imagine, you know, it's like being a trained monkey.

Speaker 3 You know, like what works, you okay? Should we push a button? Should we push the button? Okay. Okay.
Yes. Okay.
It makes sense. Okay.

Speaker 3 button is better than I'm going to push the button, push the button, whatever it is. Okay, no, I don't see it that way.
Okay, let's figure it out, and so on.

Speaker 3 So, I think, and then the scorecard, I think, probably had the benefit of that kind of notion. I got a scorecard, okay, I don't know, like I'm not sure.
Okay,

Speaker 3 bring it on, please. Stress test me.
Oh, that's great. We have, we're good partners.
So, that to some extent, I think, played a role in my types of experiences.

Speaker 3 Maybe if everybody had a scorecard on all their decisions and then was being able to experience essentially, you try it one way, you try it the other way, and you start to see what's better.

Speaker 3 And you get punished one way, you get rewarded the other way. Naturally, you want to go in the direction, you get rewarded.
Right.

Speaker 2 So you stop thinking, okay, my way is the way. You start basing it based on data and scorecards.

Speaker 3 Isn't that so stupid? My way is the way. I just want to make the right, the best decision possible.

Speaker 3 I don't care where it comes from yeah but did you at one point in your life for a period of time were you committed to your way and thinking that you had the answers well i i like i say i think before that uh 1982-ish incident i probably was a lot more

Speaker 3 okay yeah okay you know i think it's right and what i think is right and i'm a smart guy and so on so i was like you know you that life is a good teacher just a good you know like two by four in the head you know and you got a couple of those and,

Speaker 3 you know, pain plus reflection equals progress. Yeah.

Speaker 2 What is thoughtful disagreement in your mind?

Speaker 1 And how important is that in this moment, especially with

Speaker 2 this political unrest and economic unrest and just everything? How do people have thoughtful disagreement as opposed to kind of toxic disagreement?

Speaker 3 Well, first of all, they, you know, they got to want it, but let's assume they want it. You know, then there are three things you have to do basically.

Speaker 3 First, you have to put your honest thoughts on the table and have the other person put their honest thoughts on the table.

Speaker 3 Okay, so now you know what you honestly think both sides. That's great.

Speaker 3 Then you then there are protocols for disagreeing. Well, you know, I wrote a bunch in

Speaker 3 the book. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And like I could go through some of those types of things. There are certain exercises that you could do.
You know, I have a two-minute rule. You speak with two minutes without the other.

Speaker 3 You start to think, are you blocking?

Speaker 3 You have a mediator, maybe. In other words, somebody when you're disagreeing, if you can't disagree, say, mutually agree that this person will be our mediator.

Speaker 3 Or maybe the judge, they'll decide. Maybe it's a group that decides.
But in other words, you have a protocol for disagreeing and then

Speaker 3 deciding.

Speaker 3 Sometimes in that disagreement, hopefully you both learn a lot and you may reach an agreement, but you still may not have an agreement.

Speaker 3 But then you try to say, what's the best protocol for moving past that disagreement? You know, like

Speaker 3 you have a judge and a jury and they have a case. And anyway, what do you have good protocols?

Speaker 3 So you have to have three things. You have to put your

Speaker 3 honest thoughts on the table.

Speaker 3 You have to go through processes that helps uh to reach the right answer depending on how serious the question is right if it's um and then number three uh you have to have a way of getting past that decision and moving on um i have a basic view though when any there's any disagreement or anything that's not going well

Speaker 3 stop

Speaker 3 Okay, pause. Don't just keep banging at each other.

Speaker 2 When it's escalating, when people are yelling at each other just pause

Speaker 3 and and sort of go above it and say

Speaker 3 what are our

Speaker 3 ground rules for disagreeing what how should we be with each other

Speaker 3 and you turn your attention rather than to the argument but say okay if i think this and you think this how do we do this

Speaker 3 and then once you agree okay then you go back into the argument and then you follow those protocols because half of the problem is that people just don't even agree,

Speaker 3 know how to disagree.

Speaker 3 But if you do it that way with those protocols and so on, and you get past your disagreement, it's great. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I want to talk a little bit about that. Answer to your part two of your question.
Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 3 The greatest problem of mankind, I believe, wow, that's a big statement. The greatest problem of mankind,

Speaker 3 and it is an exceptional problem at this moment in time

Speaker 3 is people

Speaker 3 having opinions that they're stuck on,

Speaker 3 that

Speaker 3 they won't, you know, like I have to have my opinion and that's right, and so on, because it prevents them

Speaker 3 from

Speaker 3 resolving it, from moving forward, to finding the best answer, from compromising and or doing, you know, so like everybody's arguing over everything and they, and, you know,

Speaker 3 it's almost like they're killing each other. And, and we're in a society,

Speaker 3 you know, I have another principle, which is when the causes that you're behind are more important to you and others than the system, the system is in jeopardy.

Speaker 3 So, do you, are you just literally going to go fight? So, here we are as we think. Will we fight?

Speaker 3 or will we have protocols for having thoughtful disagreements and getting past them?

Speaker 2 That's why I love your principles and protocols.

Speaker 1 What happens if we don't speak about money in a healthy way?

Speaker 4 We perpetuate it as being the big boogeyman.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And I think anything that's hush-hush has, you know, and I do, I relate it to sex all the time.

Speaker 4 Like we're all supposed to be really good at sex, but you're never allowed to talk about it and you certainly don't learn about it, you know, so it's like this weird,

Speaker 4 mysterious, dirty thing. It really is.
I mean, it's dirty. Money is dirty.
You know, I don't want your dirty money.

Speaker 1 Like, you know what I mean? It's dirty until you don't make it dirty, right? Exactly.

Speaker 4 Until you change it. Exactly.

Speaker 4 So just by like airing it out and talking about it and being joyful about it and talking about what you do with it joyfully and sharing it and making it and being happy that you made it and not, you know, it's so not a big deal.

Speaker 4 And it's like, we all need it. You know, it's so funny.
I always think like, you know, if I told the average person, like, I'm going to give you 10,000 bucks, they'd be like, sweet.

Speaker 4 And then, you know, but talking about like, how do you feel about rich people? How do you feel about people who make tons and tons of money?

Speaker 4 And the disparity, you know, the difference between that, like you want it, but there's still dirtiness around it, which is why I put in.

Speaker 4 two of my books to write that letter to money because it's a really interesting exercise.

Speaker 1 You wrote like a love letter to money.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you just write a letter to money as if it's a person almost. So it's like, I love you.
I wish I had more of you, but I don't trust you. And I feel like a dirty for even saying that.

Speaker 1 And, you know, all, so all the, all the things.

Speaker 4 And then you can see what you got going on.

Speaker 1 This is a topic that I've been fascinated about for decades because I didn't have money at one point. Also, I was living on my sister's couch for a year and a half.

Speaker 1 I couldn't pay for the rent. I didn't buy food.
I was just like living off of her for a year and a half. Well, I was recovering from a surgery, a wrist that I broke playing football.

Speaker 1 And I was afraid of it. My father also got into a pretty

Speaker 1 bad car accident a year prior to me getting injured where he was kind of that like lifeline for me where he'd give me a hundred bucks when I needed it and paid for things and just said, hey, you know, go live your dreams.

Speaker 1 And when you're done, we'll figure out what you're going to do with the job.

Speaker 1 He got in a car accident. He had extreme head trauma, was in a coma for three months.
My God. Ended up surviving, but wasn't able to work anymore.

Speaker 1 So he was physically alive, emotionally and mentally, kind of not here. Wow.
So

Speaker 1 he passed, but it was 17 years of him struggling, right, to try to recover. So I had this, you know, father backup to support me financially in a sense.

Speaker 1 I mean, just to give me a 20 or 100 bucks here and there.

Speaker 1 And he was no longer able to do that. Wow.
So I remember being fascinated by this conversation 20 years ago because I was like, I don't understand it. I don't know how to make it.

Speaker 1 I don't know why anyone would give me money. You know, where does my value come from? Like, how am I going to ask someone for money when I don't even know what skills or values I have?

Speaker 1 Right, right, right. And early on, I started to learn from these, you know, mentors and coaches teaching me about money.

Speaker 1 And one of them was around the way we speak about money, because if we are essentially saying this is bad and evil or I'm not good enough for this, then why would that thing come to us if we think it's bad and evil?

Speaker 1 We're going to be rejecting it or if we don't think we're deserving of it, why would we receive it? How would we bring it into us? Right.

Speaker 1 And so I had to really shift this conversation, you know, 20 years ago around money and do what you talk about, which is just having more open conversations, not talking about it like it's this hush, hush thing, but just being more open and conversational and not being so emotionally like heightened when you talk about it and learn from a peaceful place of talking about it.

Speaker 1 So I love love that you have this write a letter to money. Yeah.
And really, I tell people, like, if you want your money to appreciate, you must appreciate it. Exactly.

Speaker 1 And treat it like you're the greatest lover of your life. Right? Yes.

Speaker 1 Treat it like if you want your partner to be investing in you and to be giving you words of affirmation and a physical touch and like gifts, if you want all these love languages, then you've got to pour into and appreciate the partner you're with.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Tell them how grateful you are every day.
Tell them what you love about them, what you see in them.

Speaker 1 And when you appreciate a person like you said, or if you appreciate money, it can appreciate in value and come to you in return. Absolutely.

Speaker 4 It's energy. And it really, that like money is currency and currency is energy.
Like,

Speaker 4 like I had to hear it like 6,000 times before I really got that money. is energy.
It's a frequency.

Speaker 4 So when you raise your frequency and get into alignment with it, and that whole alignment thing is all about none of the limiting beliefs, just

Speaker 4 being in surrender

Speaker 4 and in alignment and having it flow. And so at the beginning, you asked me

Speaker 4 what my words were. So at first it was, I can't afford it.
And then I eventually went to money flows to me easily and freely.

Speaker 4 And this is still while I was living in the garage, still while I was, you know, so in debt. But I had started doing all the energy work around it.
And I was like, all right, what are my blocks?

Speaker 4 Like when when you write a new mantra, it's all about like really feel like the letter to money, like what just kept coming up and that I was stuck and that it was hard and that I didn't know what I was doing.

Speaker 4 So there was like hard and stuck and confusion. So flowing easily and freely was just like.

Speaker 4 Yeah, even though I did not believe it at first, like it wasn't about believing it.

Speaker 4 It was about the feeling because we are emotional creatures and freak, you know, that emotion, the frequence of emotions was, you know, the flowing, the easily and freely flowing was really, really powerful for me.

Speaker 1 So now when you write a statement or a mantra that you're wanting to step into, but you don't believe it yet,

Speaker 1 is that lying to yourself? Or how do we overcome this thing that, okay, this is what I want and this is what I'm stepping into and the feelings I want to experience, but I don't have it yet.

Speaker 1 I don't, I don't, and that's not actually true yet. Okay.

Speaker 4 I'm just going to say if you are

Speaker 4 not successful at what you want to be successful for and you're feeling stuck, you're already lying to yourself because you're buying into the identity that is not in the flow. So that's the lie.

Speaker 4 So money flowing to me easily and freely because I live in an abundant universe and I'm a creature who receives, that is the truth.

Speaker 4 So even though the identity that I'm in is not believing it yet, it doesn't matter. What matters is that I'm feeling it.

Speaker 4 So I always tell people, like, you don't have to believe it at first, like, but you have to feel it.

Speaker 1 So that's why what the words make you feel like are the most important part about it so ease and free and flow was the most important part of that do you feel like okay you said you're around 40 years young when this kind of happened was there something in your life that was like i'm just sick and tired of feeling this way after two decades or

Speaker 1 like i just want to see what's possible for me in this next decade was there something around that time that made you say all right this hasn't worked for 40 years of my life yeah now i'm going to try something different you know I think it was, there really wasn't like, I didn't almost get hit by a bus or, you know, I just, I, first of all, it's so boring being broke.

Speaker 4 Like you can't do anything, right? Really, you can't do anything. So,

Speaker 4 and, and I think it was just sort of a, it's almost like I ripened, you know, it's almost like how many times do you hear something before it's the aha moment? You know, why does that suddenly happen?

Speaker 4 I think you just finally are in a place where you can hear it for some reason. So I had started reading the self-help books, and I was really into it.

Speaker 4 And, you know, I made a bunch of half attempts at like getting my act together. But I think it was just, I think I just ripened and then I made the decision.

Speaker 4 Like, I think really living in and it was like a one-car garage, like it was small.

Speaker 1 And I think after a little while of that, I was like, I'm sick and tired of this. On, I am 40 years old.
You know, I can do better than this. Right, right.

Speaker 4 And so, I think I was just so sick of myself.

Speaker 1 My friend Dean Graciosi says, we pay attention to what we pay for.

Speaker 1 Do you think you making this investment in a coach made you pay attention more to, okay, now I got to make my money back and I'm going to make more than my money back. So I'm going to focus.

Speaker 1 I'm going to do all the painful things that she tells me to do. And I'm going to be the best student I can be.
Is that what your thought was because you invested?

Speaker 4 Definitely. And I will say, though, is I've had clients pay me lots of money and not do a damn thing.
So it's not a guarantee.

Speaker 4 So that is part of it for sure because I've also given like free coaching sessions to my friends. And it's like the biggest waste of all of our time.
Right.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 so I do think that the exchange of money is very, very real. But I think more importantly, your attitude and the decision.
It's deciding.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you can decide to invest, but you're still not committed to taking the action and doing whatever it takes.

Speaker 4 Absolutely. And I've been given things for free, especially at that time in my life, like anything I can get my hands on.
I was a straight A student.

Speaker 4 So the money did have something to do with it, but I was

Speaker 1 also committed in

Speaker 1 preparing. So ready.

Speaker 4 No, I was. You were all in.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. Before you weren't committed.
Yes. Because you had the emotional blocks that were just half.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And so I do think it was that sort of, it's sort of like the water hitting the rock and then it's the Grand Canyon, you know, like reading the self-help books.

Speaker 4 Like I did, I had started that a couple years before the garage. So I was sort of priming myself.
And then finally, I was just like,

Speaker 1 I'll do anything. Just hit me.

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What was the book that really inspired you the most?

Speaker 4 The Science of Getting Rich by Wallace Waddles. Oh, yeah, that's a good one.
I mean, not only because it's like this big, because I'm super impatient, but I mean, it's super cryptic.

Speaker 4 It's like, it's all about the universe being a thinking stuff. And when you impress your thoughts into the thinking stuff, it becomes real and material world.

Speaker 4 And I just, I just, it really, really, really spoke to me. I read it hundreds of times.
Really? Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 What was the biggest takeaway from that book?

Speaker 1 I'm so happy you asked because I

Speaker 4 talk about this line all the time is to think what you want to think is to think the truth regardless of appearances. So this is everything, right? So mindset is everything.

Speaker 4 So regardless of appearances, regardless of the fact that I'm living in a garage, in an alley, driving a car with no grill, like those are the appearances.

Speaker 4 But to think what you want, and I think the want is so key too, because

Speaker 4 that's your authenticity. That's not like thinking what other people think you should do and how you should should live your life.

Speaker 4 To think what you want, the purpose that you were put on planet Earth to live out,

Speaker 4 that's the truth.

Speaker 1 That is the truth.

Speaker 4 So your desires are the truth, not what's physically around you.

Speaker 1 Wow. So how do we know that we are in harmony and congruency with our desires?

Speaker 1 That it's for something.

Speaker 1 not just selfish and self-serving by itself or ego-driven, but more, I don't know, driven by something greater.

Speaker 1 You know, because if someone says, well, I want to make a lot of money, or I want to make $100,000 in a year, or $500,000 or whatever it is, or millions,

Speaker 1 how do we line up our desires with our authentic selves so that we don't hurt ourselves in the process of making money or it become overwhelming, daunting, or draining?

Speaker 4 I think you always come back to,

Speaker 1 is it fun?

Speaker 4 Does it give me energy or deplete my energy? And does it have meaning? Those are the three things that I'm really living my life by these days.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 I think that if you're in alignment with those three things and other things, certainly, but those are sort of my big three.

Speaker 1 Is it fun? Does it give me energy? And does it give me meaning?

Speaker 4 Yeah. And is it meaningful? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Is it meaningful? Yeah. I like that.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And where were you at 39 doing things that weren't fun, that drained your energy and didn't give you meaning? Yeah, pretty much.

Speaker 4 I mean, I was a freelance writer hustling my butt off.

Speaker 4 and then like when i really did the math i was like the amount of time i spent hustling for this gig and they don't pay that well like magazine articles come on i was making like i was probably losing money quite frankly

Speaker 4 so um

Speaker 4 yeah no there was there was none of that was not fun it was exhausting it had some meaning but you got to get all three you know yeah or at least start working towards it because there's you may not be able to at this season but you got to focus on can i can i get one can i get one and is it leading in the direction of something that is fun that is going to give me energy and has meaning?

Speaker 4 Because you're right. Like when you're building a company or when you're doing something like it is exhausting.

Speaker 4 And, but if it's still exciting and fun and has meaning, then yeah, yeah, it doesn't get to be a picnic all the time.

Speaker 1 When was the biggest aha moment for you then? Like, was it after you made a certain amount of money or a client paid you something?

Speaker 1 Or was it just the feeling you had, like releasing all of it in the process of working?

Speaker 1 Like, when was that moment where you're like, I'm actually emotionally and mentally free around the idea of money?

Speaker 4 Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1 Maybe I'm not.

Speaker 1 No, I will tell you.

Speaker 4 No, I actually did, and I did put it in You Are a Badass. I put it in one of them.
It was when I had, oh my God, it was such a cool moment. So,

Speaker 4 because money is currency and currency is energy, right? So we're really going to get woo-woo with the money. Like really shifting the mindset around money.
And I,

Speaker 4 bring me back to my story, if I go off on a tangent, because I'm about to go off on a tangent and I want to remember, but i um

Speaker 4 money is currency and currency is energy yes money is currency currency is energy and i've had so many clients that have told me and it's happened to me too where they manifest when they get into the meditation and they start to raise their frequency yes and they focus on the amount the exact amount comes in from outer space that you didn't even think of and so my story is around that where i was working with my coach and we were really going to shift my money reality

Speaker 4 and so she's like you know what amount of money would be really great for you to make right now like what would have a a lot of meaning?

Speaker 4 And I was like, $10,000 because I'm $10,000 in debt on my credit card and I hate being in debt. She's like, perfect.
And so she's like, okay, so how soon are you going to make it?

Speaker 4 And she goes, you know, like about a week, two weeks. Cause I, you know, and I was at the time making like 30 grand a year.

Speaker 4 And I was like, my God, if I made 10,000 in a week, that would be incredible. And I was like, but you know what?

Speaker 4 I got to do it in two days because I know myself and I won't keep myself in that frequency. Like I'll lose steam and I'll decide that like, yeah, it's not, I can't do it or whatever.

Speaker 4 Like I knew that the stuff would start creeping back in. So I was like, all right, 10 grand in two days.
She's like, great. Okay.
So how are you going to do it?

Speaker 4 And at the time, I had this little online coaching business that I had just started coaching writers. And I said, I'll get three private clients, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 4 So then we're, you know, putting all the pieces in place. And then she's like, okay.
And is there anything else? And I was like, well, you know, there was this guy that I was coaching. years ago.

Speaker 4 He was my first private client. I was charging him like 50 bucks an hour.
And I was like, I could also call him and see if he wants to work with me again.

Speaker 1 And she's like, okay, great.

Speaker 4 And we're still on the phone. And I check my email and he has written me.
I have not thought of this man or communicated with him in years.

Speaker 4 Email, he's like,

Speaker 4 you know, are you still coaching? Can you help me? When can we start?

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 4 And so she's like, okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to put together a $10,000 package for him and you're going to sell it to him right now.

Speaker 1 Holy cow. I know.
And I was like, $10,000.

Speaker 1 Like, I was charging him $50 an hour.

Speaker 4 I was, and I really adore him. He's such a special person.

Speaker 1 And I was like, felt like, you know, a greedy pig, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 4 All the things, fraud complex, gigantic.

Speaker 1 Imposter syndrome.

Speaker 4 Go beyond, beyond. And so we put, she's like, and what we'll do is we'll put together a $15,000 package and a 10 so that the 10 looks cheap.
And I was like, I can't do 15. She's like, all right, 12.

Speaker 4 Pain in my ass.

Speaker 1 So did a 12,

Speaker 4 sent it to him and literally wanted to throw up. I was just like, if he, because I really cared about this guy, he bought the 12.

Speaker 1 Holy God. I I know.

Speaker 1 You're right. I should have been at 15.
I know exactly. I know.
Well, here's the thing. You know, it's not like you were charging them $12 an hour.

Speaker 1 Obviously, you created a positioning and packaging of services that would over-deliver, that would serve him in a big way.

Speaker 4 I worked with him for five years after that. Exactly.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's not like I'm just going to charge some number and then give very little.
Oh, no. You made sure that the value was there.
Totally.

Speaker 1 How did you learn to package and position your value to be able to charge for what you wanted?

Speaker 4 My coach helped me put it all together, but then I had to rise to that frequency.

Speaker 4 And I'll tell you, you know, when you're charging something that scares the f ⁇ out of you, you show up with your A-plus game. And he did too.
Like it was a lot for him too.

Speaker 4 We knocked it out of the park.

Speaker 1 Because you pay attention to what you pay for. Yes.
Yes. Yep.
Totally. You'll rise to the occasion.
Like, I got to focus. Yes.

Speaker 1 I got to show up on time. I'm going to deliver the results on time.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Give my best here.
Yep. Interesting.
So now here's, I'm curious about the next thing. Was that everything to do the story first off? I want to make sure sure I get.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.
Money is currency and currency is energy. I'm curious about the next thing.

Speaker 1 So once this happened and you sold a $12,000 package and you were like, this is crazy and this is more money than I've ever made in my life, essentially.

Speaker 1 And in two days, did you fall back at any point? Or did you stay focused?

Speaker 4 Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1 Because sometimes

Speaker 1 people get an opportunity and they get excited. And then, well, I tried it again and it didn't work.
So maybe this is a fluke. Maybe this is a one time and then the thermometer goes back

Speaker 1 to what they're comfortable or familiar with. Very common.
Very common.

Speaker 4 I did not, but only because I continued to get coaching. And I got bigger and bigger and bigger packages.
I mean, I was paying six figures by the end.

Speaker 1 100 grand for like a year of coaching?

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 4 So I just, because I knew myself, I was like, I am rickety in this whole sort of wealth consciousness department. So I knew that I had, it's like getting a personal trainer, right?

Speaker 4 So I just kept investing in the coaching. And now

Speaker 4 I'm good, but I do still have to work at it.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 it's different levels.

Speaker 4 It's different levels, you know?

Speaker 1 If you feel comfortable at this level, but if you want to break through, exactly.

Speaker 1 Do something you've never done. It means you've got to have a different frequency still, right? Exactly.

Speaker 4 You get, you know, yep, there's always more growth to be had.

Speaker 1 Do you feel like you're kind of at like a block right now? Because again, you've sold, you know, I don't know, five or 10 million copies of your books. You've got a coaching program.

Speaker 1 You've got all these core success. financial freedom, all these different things.

Speaker 1 But is there like a level you've reached that you feel like, okay, well, can I break through that? This is so much now and I feel abundant, but could you break through?

Speaker 4 If I want, if I could decide what I want the next thing to be yet, I'm still in that sort of incubation period of like, what would be fun, give me energy and have meaning. I'm getting there.

Speaker 4 Like I definitely feel like I'm getting there and I'm doing a lot of things that meet those requirements in the meantime, but it's not the big.

Speaker 1 What's your biggest fear or insecurity around money right now?

Speaker 4 That I don't know what to do with it when I make it like i'm good at making it my bookkeeper called me one day and she's like would you please just open a savings account at your bank because i had like a million dollars in my checking account this was a while ago i finally got my so yeah i've hired financial plan like i've hired people who grownups who know what they're doing with money but like I'm teaching myself about it, but I find it boring.

Speaker 4 I find investing boring and confusing and out of my league. So luckily, there are amazing people who know what they're doing.
So I have finally gotten that team together.

Speaker 1 Gotcha.

Speaker 4 And there is a little tiny part of me, if I gave it any attention, that is a little scared it's all going to go away.

Speaker 1 Really? Yeah.

Speaker 4 But I don't, I'm not, it's not that bad. And I probably should not even speak it out loud.

Speaker 1 Right, right, right. Yeah.
Well, you're being honest about it. I think.

Speaker 1 There's one thing about speaking it out loud so it doesn't happen, but another thing about saying it so it doesn't have power over you. Right.
Yeah. You know, it's like

Speaker 1 you're afraid of it. Like you're afraid to have the conversation around money.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm all a believer, like don't speak into something that is issues you don't want to to happen but i think you know when i started talking about my fears and my shame and my insecurity it actually felt like the poison was coming out of me

Speaker 1 and now i could see it outside of me or i could have a conversation with it as opposed to it being in me and afraid to talk about right and then i could have get coaching about it

Speaker 5 With all the tools and all the distractions and all the social media and all the apps and all the responsibilities that we have in our life, is there a way to multiply time and to become more productive yeah yeah there is so I mean this is what you just described was my life I mean this is this this was pretty much like all the things we study I was not Trying so much to solve a work the problem for the world.

Speaker 5 I was trying to solve a problem in my own life just busy buried behind overwhelmed stressed frustrated No matter how fast you work You just never feel caught up

Speaker 1 No matter how many hours you didn't sleep sleep, you felt tired and you were working sluggish and trying to get it all done, everything.

Speaker 5 Yeah, you just can't, there's this frustration of like,

Speaker 5 am I ever going to have peace? Like, am I ever going to have margin? Am I ever going to have space? Am I just feeling like things are under control?

Speaker 5 And so we started looking at this and we started profiling people that at the time we called ultra performers, which were the top 1%ers in different industries.

Speaker 1 And is this top 1% earners, top 1%

Speaker 1 accomplishments?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I mean, just what it's kind of used that term loosely, but like, you know, if it's church leaders, it's large, you know, large church leaders. If it's athletes, it's professional athletes.

Speaker 5 If it's financial advisors, they're probably top earners. Sure, sure.
So it's just from different walks of life.

Speaker 5 And what we found is there is a new type of thinker that has emerged that is, we call them a multiplier

Speaker 5 because most people.

Speaker 5 are trying to manage time, right? Like you even hear this, you go, I need, you know, I need to be better at managing my time. Time management.
But you know, what's funny about that is

Speaker 5 there is no such thing as time management. There is only self-management.

Speaker 5 You cannot manage time.

Speaker 5 Time ticks on second by second. I can't fast forward time.
I can't stop it. I can't pause it.
And so

Speaker 5 what this conversation is really about is managing ourselves, managing our decisions, managing our use of time.

Speaker 5 But even that is kind of a first shift that needs to happen.

Speaker 5 It's not like I'm this helpless victim that is subject to the world around me who is unfairly blasting me with all this stuff. No, you're in charge.
Like you,

Speaker 5 everything that exists in your life, you either said, you said yes to it in some way.

Speaker 5 So it is your responsibility and you created the problem, but that also means that you are in charge of fixing it, that you have the power to change it.

Speaker 5 But what we started to realize is that most of what people have learned and think about time management, I went so far as the opening line in my TED talk is I said, everything you know about time management is wrong.

Speaker 5 It's wrong because we have been taught to think about time in a very,

Speaker 5 you know,

Speaker 5 linear way. And the world today is much more like multi-dimensional.

Speaker 1 When you mean linear way, do you mean focusing on our priorities?

Speaker 5 Yeah, so a little bit about that. So if you, if we talk,

Speaker 5 we love to take people on a quick like history of time management theory. Okay.
So era one time management thinking was very one-dimensional. We refer to era one thinking as efficiency.

Speaker 5 So that was the strategy was I got 10 things on my to-do list. How do I crank them out faster?

Speaker 5 And time management and productivity as a body of work really develops, like it comes on in the scene in like 1950s, 60s so you know it's the manufacturing era where we're it's conveyor belts and engineering and just doing things faster that also reflected in our mindset was how can I be more efficient now efficiency is good all things being equal doing things faster is great.

Speaker 5 The problem is that there is a point of diminishing returns to using efficiency as your only strategy for productivity,

Speaker 5 which is that no matter how fast we move, the amount of busy work always expands to fill the amount of time available.

Speaker 5 So it's more like quicksand. It's just kind of like the faster you go or the more that shows up.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't be fast. It's just not going to get you what you're looking for.

Speaker 5 Then

Speaker 5 in the late 80s, Dr. Stephen Covey wrote a book that changed the world.

Speaker 5 Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. I'm sure you're familiar with it and sold tens of millions of copies.
And Dr. Covey pretty much

Speaker 5 single-handedly introduced a new era of time management thought

Speaker 5 that

Speaker 5 the world refers to as prioritizing.

Speaker 5 But we would classify prioritizing as era two thinking, which is still to this day the predominant strategy that most people use in terms of how they think about time.

Speaker 5 And so here's what prioritizing is. It's to focus first on what matters most.

Speaker 5 Super powerful, super relevant. Dr.
Covey had this thing called the time management matrix that, you know, he explained of like urgency and importance. And basically,

Speaker 5 he taught us to score our activities

Speaker 5 so that we could reorder them and say, it's not just about getting these done faster. It's saying, hey, item number seven needs to be pushed to item number one,

Speaker 5 which is valuable. And so that's super valuable.

Speaker 5 Prioritizing is as important today as ever before.

Speaker 5 But what I noticed in my own life, because I was a student of Dr. Covey and several books on time, I mean, there's no shortage of books on time management.
There's no shortage of apps.

Speaker 5 There's all these tips and tricks and tools and technology that exist to help us with this problem of feeling so busy. And yet

Speaker 4 the majority of us are still overwhelmed.

Speaker 5 So it's like there's something missing. And

Speaker 5 what we started to notice in these ultra performers that we now refer to as the multipliers is that

Speaker 5 they are doing a different type of thinking. It's like evolution.
Like their thinking has evolved.

Speaker 5 For almost all of them, it was subconscious.

Speaker 1 They weren't even aware of it.

Speaker 5 Not even aware of it. It wasn't something that someone taught them to do.
They did it instinctively, you know, like instinctually.

Speaker 5 They figured out and most of them couldn't explain it. They couldn't explain it to me and they couldn't explain it to most people if they said, why are you, how are you so productive, right?

Speaker 5 Like, how does, you know, how do you become a billionaire in 10 years when like most people work for 40 years and you know, they can barely retire?

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 5 It's a different type of thinking. And

Speaker 5 one of the things, this is true in many areas of our life, the next level of results always requires the next level of thinking.

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Speaker 5 So here's what it is. So era three time management is multiplying.
It's not efficiency. It's not prioritizing, it's multiplying.
And it's all based on what we call the significance calculation.

Speaker 5 So it's really, it's not, it's adding on like Dr. Covey's work as an example.
So he, you know, present this two-dimensional figure, like a square,

Speaker 5 where the y-axis is importance and the x-axis is urgency. But what multipliers are doing is they're making a third calculation,

Speaker 5 which we call significance. So it's kind of like if you were doing algebra, it would be the z-axis.
It would turn the square into a cube. Three-dimensional.

Speaker 5 Three-dimensional thinking, era three thinking or three-dimensional thinking. And so here's the difference.
Urgency is how soon does this matter? Most of us live in a world of urgency.

Speaker 5 It's all about what needs to be done right now. Importance is different.
Importance is how much does this matter.

Speaker 5 But significance is even different still. Significance is how long is this going to matter? So

Speaker 5 how is, what is the impact of this activity in the future?

Speaker 1 10 years out, 20 years out.

Speaker 5 Even 10 days out, yeah.

Speaker 5 It is breaking free of the paradigm of one day. And instead thinking about tomorrow and the next day.

Speaker 5 And the significance calculation changes everything because this is how it's possible to multiply time. So let me, I'll just tell you in one sentence, okay?

Speaker 5 So if you say, Rory, how is it possible to multiply time? This is the answer. So

Speaker 5 you want to write this part down. You don't want to miss this.
The way you multiply time is by giving yourself the emotional permission to spend time on things today

Speaker 5 that create more time tomorrow.

Speaker 5 You do you do there's certain things you do right now that create more time in the future. that's the significance calculation um

Speaker 5 so when i say multiply time people often think i'm exaggerating or that it's like a marketing hyperbole right as i'm like i'm sensationalizing a concept

Speaker 5 what when when we say this we're not exaggerating we mean this literally now it kind of fries your brain because you go You've been told your whole life you can't time is the one thing you you can never get back.

Speaker 5 It's the one thing you can never get more of

Speaker 5 And it is true that there's nothing that we can do There's nothing I can do to to give you more time inside of one day So one day is finite and we're all limited by the same 24 hours

Speaker 5 Which by the way is 1440 minutes or 86,400 seconds. Okay, so I can't teach you to create more I don't have control over time, right? There's no such thing as time management.

Speaker 5 There's only self-management. But that's exactly the problem is most of us think about our activities in the paradigm of one day.
We wake up and we say, what's the most important thing I can do today?

Speaker 5 And it's not that that's a bad question. It's just not the question that multipliers ask.
Multipliers don't say, what is the most important thing I can do today?

Speaker 5 Multipliers ask, what are the things I can do today that create more time tomorrow? What are the things I can do now that make the future better?

Speaker 5 You're literally breaking free of the urgency paradigm of just just what matters right here, right now, and you're introducing the significance paradigm of what is going to have impact over the long haul.

Speaker 1 Right. How do you know which actions to focus on urgently that will have impact over the long haul? Yes.
When you've got everything significant.

Speaker 5 Yes. So, well, there's a tool called the focus funnel

Speaker 5 that

Speaker 5 we developed here to help people apply this.

Speaker 5 So there's only one big idea in this whole conversation, which is spend time on things today that give you more time tomorrow. That's how you multiply time.

Speaker 5 And then you go, how do I do that?

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 there's five core methods, strategies. We call them permissions

Speaker 5 because there's an emotional side. What we've also learned is that most people treat time management logically.

Speaker 5 But it's actually an emotional conversation.

Speaker 5 For most most of us, it's not just our calendar and our inbox and our to-do list. It is our

Speaker 5 underlying feelings of guilt and fear and anxiety and worry, as well as ambition and

Speaker 5 our drive to be successful and feel valued and important and to make impact in the world. These underlying emotional drivers dictate as much as

Speaker 5 dictate how we spend our time and the choices that we make as much as anything on our to-do list.

Speaker 1 What do we feel most guilty about?

Speaker 5 We feel most guilty

Speaker 1 about not doing something that we want to do, about delaying something, about wasting our time.

Speaker 5 I would say the guilt. So, guilt corresponds with the first of the five permissions, which is eliminate.

Speaker 5 So, if you were to picture a funnel, okay, so if I was going to draw this out, right, like you think of all of the stuff there is to do comes into the top.

Speaker 5 And then the focus funnel is our attempt to create a visual illustration that codifies the thought process that multipliers go through intuitively in their own brain so that the rest of us can kind of like see it and follow it.

Speaker 5 So the very first question is, can this be eliminated?

Speaker 1 So give me an example of your life or someone's business or career or whatever it might be.

Speaker 5 There's tons of things. I mean, in your personal life, I mean, I used, I like the example of TV because

Speaker 5 it's hilarious how people will, in the same dinner conversation, talk about how they're so busy and married and overwhelmed and then talk about the three series on Netflix that they have binged in like the last month.

Speaker 5 Right. And

Speaker 1 it took 20 hours of their life. Yeah.

Speaker 5 And so it's like, okay, and I'm not saying you shouldn't watch TV. By the way, I'm not telling you anything you shouldn't or shouldn't do.

Speaker 5 I'm just introducing the framework for you to decide how to spend your time.

Speaker 1 But if you're saying you're too busy and overwhelmed, check to where you're spending your time the most. That's right.

Speaker 5 And Nielsen says...

Speaker 1 Six hours on Instagram a day and you're not being, you know, you're not creating something of significance and you're just browsing, or if you're 20 hours a week on TV and I'm overwhelmed and tired and exhausted, then just look at where you're spending your time.

Speaker 5 Yeah. And Nielsen ratings, you know, this was, this is from a few years ago, but they said the average American watches 27 hours a week of television.
A week. A week.
It's a part-time job. So.

Speaker 1 27 hours a week. How much is that a day? day

Speaker 5 i mean so you know seven seven times it's like four hours a day four hours a day of TV. Four hours a day.
That's a ton.

Speaker 1 That's a lot of time.

Speaker 5 I mean, you could build a big side hustle in a couple hours every day.

Speaker 1 Even if you just cut half of that down and you watch two hours a day of TV and you spend two hours on your side hustle or something else, your health, your relationships, imagine the benefits you would have down the line.

Speaker 5 So, yeah, there's anything eliminate is the first opportunity to multiply because anything I say no to today

Speaker 5 creates time in the future.

Speaker 1 How?

Speaker 5 It's preventing me from doing something that I would have otherwise been doing had I not given myself the permission to eliminate, like had I not said no.

Speaker 5 So basically this is saying no and people really struggle with saying no. In businesses, this happens all the time.

Speaker 5 People have all these, so, you know, at brand builders group, we do personal brand strategy, right? So we're coaching all these like people on building and monetizing their personal brand.

Speaker 5 Well, they have like a hundred business models. It's like, oh, I want to have a video course and a membership site and a live event and consulting.
I want to do keynote speaking.

Speaker 5 And I want to get a book deal. And, you know, and sponsorships and brand deals.
And it's like, when you have diluted focus, you get diluted results.

Speaker 5 So you have to, by saying no to some things,

Speaker 5 you power your ability to focus. on the few significant things that will multiply time.
So

Speaker 5 you have to say no. But this is something that people struggle with.

Speaker 5 I struggle with it.

Speaker 1 Well, especially when you get to a certain level of success where there's a lot of opportunities and cool things and exciting things and new shiny objects, we want to do lots of things.

Speaker 1 High achievers, people that have gotten out of the weeds of their life and they have different problems, which are opportunity problems. Again, first world problems.

Speaker 1 It's how do you focus your time and energy and making the decisions that you want to focus on now for your future and that is a challenge in just making decisions decision fatigue is a thing for people and learning how to place importance on the things that you want to spend your time on is going to be key for you totally and a lot of people the decision fatigue what happens is they it it it it it does wear on you and so a lot of people don't make conscious decisions.

Speaker 5 So what happens is...

Speaker 1 They make what? Emotional decisions, reactions?

Speaker 5 Yes, they're unconscious, emotional impulses, right? And if you're not consciously saying no to the things that don't matter, you end up unconsciously saying no to the things that do matter.

Speaker 1 What if everything matters to you?

Speaker 5 So, you know, that's what I said, actually. So I,

Speaker 5 in, in, so we were,

Speaker 5 you know, this became the Procrastinate on Purpose book. So this was my second book.

Speaker 5 When we were profiling all these people, I was doing interviews and I told one of the multipliers, I said, I don't like this one.

Speaker 5 I got to where I am by being a a yes man, by like doing a lot of things and doing them well and like saying yes to meetings and meeting people all the time.

Speaker 5 And they said, Rory, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. And I was like, oh, okay.

Speaker 5 And here's what they said. They said, you're trying to go through life without saying no, which is admirable because

Speaker 5 you're a nice guy. But what you failed to realize is that you are always saying no to something.

Speaker 5 Anytime you say yes to one thing, you simultaneously are saying no to an infinite number of other things.

Speaker 5 So even when you think you're saying, yes, everything is important to me, no, nothing is important to you.

Speaker 5 Nothing is important enough for you to focus on. And you don't have a method for focus.
And focus is power.

Speaker 5 So that most of us are losing because we're wandering, we're meandering through a bunch of insignificant, trivial tasks,

Speaker 5 feeling productive when really we're just diluted.

Speaker 5 So if you, that's the first one, eliminate.

Speaker 5 Now, if you can't eliminate the task, then it drops down to the center of the focus funnel, which is automate,

Speaker 5 the permission to invest.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 this is so powerful because anything you create a process for today

Speaker 5 saves you time in the future.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 5 if I set up a process for it or a system, or if I write code, you know, there's a lot of automation, like actual technologies and things that you can deploy.

Speaker 5 If I take the time to set it up today, then tomorrow, the system or the process is doing the thing instead of me. So it's multiplying time.

Speaker 5 Now, here's the challenge is that most of us are aware that those tools exist.

Speaker 5 But if you ask someone, Lewis, I mean, like if you ask the average business owner or you know whatever a you know achiever or you know somebody pursuing greatness are you aware of tools and systems and processes and technologies that you could implement or deploy or improve inside of your goals that wouldn't would would automate things they would all say yes but if you said why haven't you done it yet?

Speaker 5 What do you think they'd say?

Speaker 1 It takes too much time.

Speaker 5 It takes too much time.

Speaker 1 It's easier to to do it myself right now, just a couple minutes every day, as opposed to

Speaker 1 figuring out the system, figuring out the software, learning it, going through the training, hiring someone, teaching them all the time and energy. I might as well just do it myself right now.

Speaker 5 Bingo, yeah. So it's like

Speaker 5 it's so ironic because

Speaker 5 the two excuses we would use for why we haven't automated things is we would say, either I don't have the time or I don't have the

Speaker 1 money. The money.
The patience.

Speaker 5 The patience we'll talk about in a second.

Speaker 5 i don't have the time or the money i don't have the time or the money and it's wild because the

Speaker 5 those those those two excuses we would use for not automating something are exactly the opposite of how it is when you make the significance calculation because if you did do automate you would save time or you would multiply time and you'd earn more money yeah from your time doing something else yeah so an easy example is bill pay you know this is a quick example right so if you had two hours open in your day today and i said Lewis, you know, what's the most important thing you could do today?

Speaker 5 You'd have a list of things that you would do. And if I said, hey, I think you should consider setting up online bill pay.
For most of us, we would be like,

Speaker 5 no, like that is not important. That's not significant.
That is seems totally trivial.

Speaker 5 But if you look at this the way a multiplier would, you go, okay. If you spend two hours today setting up online bill pay

Speaker 5 and it saves you 30 minutes every month from paying your bills in the future then after four months time you will have broken even 30 30 30 30 you will have broken even on those initial two hours and then every month thereafter you'll get something that we call ROTI return on time invested because now the system is doing the thing that you would have otherwise been doing.

Speaker 5 Another way that we say this, I know this is one of your one of your favorite Roryisms, is that automation is to your time

Speaker 5 exactly what compounding interest

Speaker 5 is to your money.

Speaker 5 Automation is to your time what compounding interest is to your money. Just like compounding interest takes money and it turns it into more money.
Automation takes time and it turns it into more time.

Speaker 5 Just like nobody has extra money to invest. I mean, not nobody.
Some people are so rich that's like, that's all they do.

Speaker 5 But the average person doesn't have an extra 10 grand just laying around to be like, yeah, I'm going to invest it. Usually you have to sacrifice something in the short term.
You don't go on a trip.

Speaker 5 You don't buy the car. You don't buy the TV.
And that is where you create the margin to reinvest into

Speaker 5 whatever, the stock market and mutual funds, like

Speaker 5 real estate, whatever you do. That is also how time is.
Nobody has extra time to set up a system. You know, marketing automation is one of the the big things we teach our clients.

Speaker 5 I know you guys do a lot of it here.

Speaker 5 We're experts in marketing automation. One of the reasons we became experts in it is we realized, oh my gosh, if I can build

Speaker 5 a funnel, which is just a sequence, a series of emails and

Speaker 5 automating trust, basically, giving value to people.

Speaker 5 Then that system basically becomes like an employee for me that works 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It's always out there.

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