Zedd Opens Up: Why He's A Better DJ Sober & How Music Became His Therapy

Speaker 1 My friend, thank you so much for being here back on the school of greatness. I am blessed and grateful every single day that I wake up.
I get to wake up in a beautiful city.

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And I just feel blessed. I feel so grateful.

Speaker 1 And even though there can be challenges, even though there might be stresses at time, and I know there's adversities that I get to face over and over in my life in different areas, I try to focus on the blessings and the gratitude as often as I can because I can easily go into frustration or lack or not enoughness.

Speaker 1 And I just want to remind you today of how grateful I am for you for being here and how blessed your life truly is.

Speaker 1 Even if you're going through something challenging right now, you have a beautiful opportunity to transform that challenge into a lesson, into a new way of being, into

Speaker 1 learning something that you didn't know before and being wiser than before. So I hope you are

Speaker 1 feeling good today, but if you're not, know that there's an opportunity for you to transform. And I'm excited for you on this journey of transformation together.

Speaker 1 We've got a big episode today with Zed. His name's Anton.
He is one of the biggest music producers producers in the world.

Speaker 1 Massive hits, billions of streams with his songs, some of the biggest songs of the last decade. And I just had a great conversation with him.
And I cannot wait for you to meet this individual.

Speaker 1 He has a very unique lifestyle. He's, you know, works all night, you know, multiple nights a week, and sleeps during the day.
He is constantly working with the biggest artists in the world.

Speaker 1 He's an artist. He's a musician, a producer.

Speaker 1 He's extremely talented, but getting to connect with him on a human level and learn about his heart, we talk about how you can use your art, use your music, use your service to heal others.

Speaker 1 And it was interesting to hear his response when I talked about how he is bringing healing energy to the world every time he performs and makes his music.

Speaker 1 It was really fascinating to hear what Anton said about that.

Speaker 1 We talked about so many different things about how to stay relevant, how he sees other people in the industry trying to chase relevancy and

Speaker 1 what they do that might be hurting their art. There's so many cool things in this episode.
I really hope you enjoy this.

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Speaker 1 And without further ado, let me introduce you to the one, the only Zed.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guests.
We have the inspiring Grammy Award-winning, incredible individual, Zed in the House. My man, good to see you.

Speaker 1 Good to see you. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 You go by Zed, but your name's Anton, so we'll flip back and forth today. But a lot of people have listened to your music for the last decade plus, and it's been their theme song for a lot of people.

Speaker 1 Your music has been their life.

Speaker 1 They play it on repeat, they dance to it, they get into relationships to it, they go through breakups with your music.

Speaker 1 It's like helped people throughout their entire lives for the last decade plus.

Speaker 1 And you have, I was telling you off camera that you, even though you're not aware of it, you bring healing light to the world. And you were like, huh, I I don't really think about it that way.

Speaker 1 But your music, when people are dancing, they are at one of the highest frequencies of energy they can be at.

Speaker 1 So when you have anxiety, stress, depression, thoughts of suicide or whatever it might be that are holding you back, and you move your body and you dance to something that feels electric, that feels spiritual, you release all of the stress, the pain, the worry.

Speaker 1 that you're having your life.

Speaker 1 Now, if you're doing it on drugs and, you know, medicating yourself, maybe you're diminishing a little bit of like that spiritual hive, but the energy you bring to people heals.

Speaker 1 So I want to acknowledge you first for being a creative source of healing energy for the world. And I know you said that's not the way you think about it because you don't make art for others.

Speaker 1 What did you say to me off camera?

Speaker 3 Yeah, it really feels really awesome. to hear that, to hear you say that, because it's not really how I think about my own music and my art and my craft.
I'm not a doctor.

Speaker 3 I'm not here to heal others or to help others. I'm genuinely still doing the same thing I did when I was four years old.
I sit and piano and I just play.

Speaker 3 And the difference is that now I record and release. And back then I recorded and played it for my parents.

Speaker 3 Now to hear that my music has some sort of healing aspect to people or like you said, people find each other, meet each other, get married, maybe have their, you know, dance or whatever to my music is really awesome because I never think about it this way.

Speaker 3 I've also never thought about myself as somebody who's famous and I don't think I ever will.

Speaker 3 And it sometimes feels really nice to hear that and to hear people tell me their personal stories, which

Speaker 3 happens all the time where I meet somebody and they will just tell me. you know, what my music means to them.
It feels really awesome. It feels healing to me to hear that.

Speaker 3 Because it's never been my intention to make something to achieve something or

Speaker 3 anything other than kind of make music as

Speaker 3 therapy for myself.

Speaker 3 I set myself goals, sometimes really hard to reach ones, especially with this album that I just released, TELUS. And my goal is just to fulfill whatever, you know, I want to achieve with this project.

Speaker 3 Then to hear that it's really healing to people or that they were able to dance or meet somebody is really awesome. It's a bonus.
It's definitely not why I do it.

Speaker 1 So what would you say is the purpose of you creating music today? Because you've been so successful. You've won Grammy.
You're up for another Grammy. You've won every other word under the sun.

Speaker 1 You've got billions of streams. Why keep making music today? What's the purpose?

Speaker 3 The purpose for me to make music is just like the purpose of any hobby that anybody has.

Speaker 3 I've made music since I was a little kid and it's been my way of

Speaker 3 communicating emotion. So,

Speaker 3 you know, I'm not the one singing the words, so I'm not the one expressing something in words.

Speaker 3 The way I express my feelings is through notes and chords and melodies and song structures and sound design.

Speaker 3 So it's a little bit of a more subtle way to express feelings, but a lot of the times it just comes out of natural,

Speaker 3 I will sit behind a piano. and I will just play without a plan.
There's no, I'm going to write a song like this or I'm gonna write a song that does that. It's just mindless.

Speaker 3 You know when you look at something and you zone off and you kind of see everything blurry? That's how my brain functions when I write music. I don't think at all.

Speaker 3 My hands just move themselves and all of a sudden you kind of like wake up from having played something really awesome.

Speaker 3 Now you don't know what you played necessarily because your fingers just move along.

Speaker 3 It's kind of like, think about it mathematically, it's kind of like motions, movements, and your fingers move and all of a sudden you're like, whoa, that was cool.

Speaker 3 and then you kind of go back and try to find what you just played because you don't really know what you just played because you're not recording it at this time you're not like recording usually sound sometimes I do hit record and I just zone out and play and then it's easy to go back yes but most of the times if I'm if I'm in my room and I have a piano in my room I kind of zone out and just play and then you kind of wake up from having played something that catches your attention so something that was good enough or different enough to catch it to catch your attention then you go back and try to figure out what was this that I just played.

Speaker 3 And then, if it's interesting, I will record it and I'll send it to my manager. And I just he stores everything.
Wow. Because one day I might want to go back and revisit it.

Speaker 3 And I just send him, you know, little video clips of me playing the piano. So that's how most songs start.
And then they can go into very many different directions.

Speaker 3 They could become just a song on my album. Like a lot of the songs on my album currently have

Speaker 3 started in 2015.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 And it took took nearly a decade to finish. One could become something for a TV show.
One could become a single. One could become a song for somebody else.

Speaker 3 Like we briefly spoke, I made a song with Max Martin or a couple. They started that way.
They just started as I'll do something and then I feel like, this doesn't fit the direction I'm going.

Speaker 3 Max, do you like the song?

Speaker 3 Maybe somebody else could use it. But the purpose of creating music is just to create for the sake of creating.

Speaker 1 It's so interesting you say that because I had Rick Rubin on. I don't know if you know producer Rick Rubin.
And that's what he talked about a lot.

Speaker 1 It's like, don't create your music or your art for an audience. Creating it for yourself is the best way that you can put art out.
And in a world where,

Speaker 1 you know, I'm not a musician or an artist in that form. I feel like I create my own art in a different way, but I'm not a traditional artist.

Speaker 1 But in the last five years, it feels like everything has changed for a lot of musicians, let's say,

Speaker 1 because of either TikTok or social media where they feel like you have to chase a trend and make it for a platform to take off. Instead of what am I truly feeling?

Speaker 1 What is my life about right now? What do I wanna express myself through the tonality, the expression, the musicality, the harmonies, the sound design? And it seems like most people are chasing

Speaker 1 trends or platform acceptance versus how am I truly feeling? And I'm making this for me.

Speaker 1 And it sounds like that's what you've done over the last nine years is stay true to what is my expression, whether anyone listens to this or not.

Speaker 1 But how do you go about thinking I need it to do somewhat well so that I make some money from this or it's commercially acceptable because I'm a commercial artist versus I'm making art for me and it doesn't matter if anyone listens to it.

Speaker 3 It's a really difficult question to answer because I understand

Speaker 3 everybody's perspectives. I think it's easy for me to say that I make music for myself because I've achieved most things that I wanted to achieve.

Speaker 3 And I get the benefit of having a dedicated fan base that is open enough to listen to something new or different.

Speaker 3 And a good example is my album Telos because,

Speaker 3 like I mentioned to you, I make music for myself. So the features might be bizarre for people who know me from the middle.
Some of the artists are dead. Some of them are unknown.

Speaker 3 Like most people will not have heard of the Olam, which is an Irish

Speaker 3 whistle pipe band that I love and I was obsessed with throughout the pandemic. Honestly, my most listened to artist over the last two years.

Speaker 3 And they make very different music, but they inspired me and they kind of pulled me through the pandemic and really kind of showed me, wow, music can be so much deeper than I thought it was at the time.

Speaker 3 And the pandemic was kind of a dark time. And I was not inspired to make music whatsoever.
And then I heard the Olem and it kind of sparked all these things.

Speaker 3 So it was important for me to make a song with the Olem because they kind of pulled me through a dark time. So I didn't go to the artists that are the biggest, that would give me the most exposure.

Speaker 3 I went to the artists that mean something to me personally. They gave you the most heart.
They gave me the most heart. Or, like, I've always wanted to make a song with Muse, for example.

Speaker 3 A band that I grew up with,

Speaker 3 my very first concert with my band when I was younger was a cover of Muse. That was the very first song we performed on stage.

Speaker 1 What was the song?

Speaker 3 Plug-in Baby.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 So for me, to make a song with Muse is kind of of like a full circle moment of being able to work with the artist that brought me here.

Speaker 3 Like I wouldn't be sitting in that studio writing that song if it wasn't for Muse.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 So that whole album for me is it's easy to make music for yourself when, and I'm speaking from my point of view, when you've had success in the past.

Speaker 3 When I started making music, the algorithm didn't exist. right the way it does today.

Speaker 3 So when somebody, and I know a lot of amazing

Speaker 3 that spend their day recording TikToks,

Speaker 3 and personally, it feels depressing to see because I feel like they're so much better than chasing an algorithm. And I know that because they're talented musicians.

Speaker 3 But I also understand that that's what you need to do in order to make money, to be able to continue.

Speaker 1 Stay relevant or something or

Speaker 3 become relevant, even. You know, it's a really difficult.

Speaker 3 We're living in a really difficult

Speaker 3 social media controlled world where art becomes the back seat to something else.

Speaker 1 Interesting.

Speaker 3 And to me, that's really a difficult pill to swallow because I don't want music to more and more go to the direction of it is the background to a video.

Speaker 3 But how much attention does the average listener even have to listen to a whole album?

Speaker 1 Very few people can do that, right?

Speaker 3 Most people don't even know the full song of the clip that they know inside out it's like 10 seconds that's pretty sad like and i know a lot of songs from clips and i've never heard the whole song and i don't even know who the artist is it's just i know the clip that i've seen right so i kind of know the video you know the sound of the 10 seconds or whatever and then there's something behind that but you don't know the beginning the beginning the middle the end that could be the beginning that could be the end that could be the middle i wouldn't even know and and the reason is that platforms you know i also understand the platforms they're there to make money and make the shareholders happy.

Speaker 3 But it it is inherently doing something to the world of music that I don't like.

Speaker 3 It makes it forces artists to really spend their day creating TikToks and not spend their day trying to be creative and make music because that's what's gonna make their music

Speaker 3 that's what's gonna get their music heard. So if the artist can't afford living from just making the art, can you really blame them for filming TikToks? Right.

Speaker 3 It's tricky. It's a really tricky situation.
And I really don't like that we live in this world.

Speaker 3 And I'm really, really lucky that I can make art for the sake of art because I've built my platform at a time when the algorithms didn't really fully control it yet. A lot more things were editorial.

Speaker 3 A lot more things were, you know,

Speaker 3 You follow a person so you see what they post.

Speaker 3 And I feel like, what is even the purpose of following anybody?

Speaker 1 That's interesting.

Speaker 3 Or subscribing, because you see what the algorithm shows you anyway.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 3 It's a tricky thing.

Speaker 3 So I definitely understand artists who feel the need to sort of,

Speaker 3 yeah, I don't know the right words to say it, but that feel the need to play the game.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You know, to get exposure.

Speaker 1 But tricky balance. I mean, have you ever felt like Because you've been on the scene for like almost 15 years where you've kind of taken, you know, you blew up around 15 years ago, roughly.

Speaker 1 You're in the early 20s, you know,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 you had just a rocket to success with your music

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 relevancy, right? As an artist, like you became very relevant in your early 20s.

Speaker 1 Did you ever feel like, oh, I'm not as relevant and I need to be playing the game of social media or doing these specific collabs that maybe I don't really care about, but that's a big upcoming artist.

Speaker 1 So I need to be on the train of the collab game. Have you ever thought about that? Or is that?

Speaker 1 Really? Yeah, yeah, I have.

Speaker 3 I'll be honest.

Speaker 3 I remember sort of seeing your go-to social media numbers, right? For the listener or viewer who

Speaker 3 doesn't know how social media was 10 years ago, let's just say a post, anything you post gets 100,000 likes, for an example, on XYZ platform. I remember specifically, it was like the same ish number.

Speaker 3 If it's a new song, it's a little bit more. If it's just a random photo, it's a little less.
And all of a sudden, it dipped by half just the next day. And I was so confused.

Speaker 3 I was like, did I say something wrong? Is that song not interesting? And all of a sudden, all your numbers go down. But that also translates to ticket sales because less people see you post it.
And

Speaker 3 when they see you played a show in their city, they're like, why didn't you, like, I didn't even know you were playing a show here, but I'm sitting there like, but I just posted the same thing.

Speaker 3 Interesting. And I saw the numbers just kind of trickling down.
Now, you can always say, well, maybe you're just less relevant than you were before.

Speaker 3 But it's always weird when that happens like overnight.

Speaker 3 And to me, that's usually a sign that there's some change in an algorithm and that it prefers something else.

Speaker 3 And I think it's way more extreme now than it was 10 years ago. I mean, those changes,

Speaker 3 the sort of reach that you had back then was astronomically higher than the one you have today,

Speaker 3 according to the followers you have so if you have 10 million followers I remember times when like

Speaker 3 I don't know even 10% of your followers would see posts I feel like in today's world that's probably amazing

Speaker 3 yeah anomaly now it's like one percent it's mostly like other people that see your posts not your followers it's all so algorithmic and

Speaker 3 The issue with things being algorithmic in my mind is that what's being rewarded is repetition because something gets goes viral everybody wants to go viral so everybody will do the same thing that went viral and it it kind of almost

Speaker 3 wants you to to copy

Speaker 3 and everybody will do the same thing so you know a lot of people complain about AI kind of

Speaker 3 you know doing bad to the world and I'm not here to argue one way or another but we're kind of doing the same thing by just forcing ourselves to do the same trend over and over.

Speaker 3 And somebody does something creative, everybody copies it. That's such a non-creative way of art in general.
And your art doesn't have to be music. Your art could be just creating content,

Speaker 3 being funny. But if you have to kind of play that game,

Speaker 3 at some point everybody kind of has to be like, okay, we can't do this. Otherwise, we're all going to suffer from that.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's a really difficult. I don't know how that affects you and what you do or if it does at all.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 If I'm seeing other people in my industry interview someone maybe or talk about a certain topic that's taking off, I feel like, oh, do I need to do the same thing or do I need to interview the same person and ask them similar things?

Speaker 1 But is that original or am I just kind of going with the trend? So I'm always trying to.

Speaker 1 It's a both and. I'm like, okay, that is an interesting person.
Let me have them on, even though maybe they've been everywhere already. But what's the new thing I can gain from them?

Speaker 1 So I try to really say, what is a perspective that they haven't shared?

Speaker 1 One of the questions I asked you before we started rolling was, what's something that people don't ask you, they wish they asked you?

Speaker 1 What's on your heart and mind lately that you haven't talked about?

Speaker 1 I'm trying to get just a little bit of information to say, what's really interesting you besides just saying the same things every time about tell me about this song that tell me about this person you work with like you've said these things a million times probably yeah yeah and so my goal is to connect to you emotionally and as a human being to see what speaks to your heart yeah because i

Speaker 1 i truly yeah you're welcome i and i truly believe whether who are watching me who have no clue who you are, that's what they want.

Speaker 1 And people who are your fans or followers, that's what they want as well.

Speaker 1 They've heard you maybe say all these other things with the music shows. Yeah.
You know, tell me how you produced this song. Okay, cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 But what's interesting to me is like you had so much success at an early age. I know the weight.
that that carries for someone in their early 20s to have fame, money, and attention.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you just said when something is consistent, say 100,000 likes every post or whatever, and then it goes in half, you start to have this level of doubt or insecurity that you say, did I say something wrong?

Speaker 1 Did I do something wrong? Do they not like me anymore? Am I less relevant? Is there a younger person coming up who's more talented than me? What are they doing that I'm not doing?

Speaker 1 You start to question. So, my question for you would be then:

Speaker 1 how did you learn to navigate the self-doubt while being on the top in the industry,

Speaker 1 but maybe things going in half or less people showing up to show us for a season of time in your career? How did you navigate the emotional doubt?

Speaker 3 Yeah, and

Speaker 3 to answer this question, I kind of didn't really finish where I was going with this. Sure, go ahead.
But essentially, you see numbers go down. You start doubting yourself.

Speaker 3 You think you maybe did something wrong or everything you said, there might be something who somebody was more relevant. So

Speaker 3 a fun way to kind of close that question is that I just played a tour. I just came off tour and we're on the, you can call it the lowest point of engagement possible.
Right now you are.

Speaker 1 Right now.

Speaker 3 And I think every day I wake up, it will always be the lowest point of engagement because except for the things that go viral, it's just not the natural way social media, it's not the way social media works anymore.

Speaker 1 The platforms have really changed.

Speaker 3 The platforms have changed. So it's kind of normal.
The irony is that we had the most successful tour we've ever played. Really? With the most tickets sold, and we underbooked venues because we didn't

Speaker 3 thank you. No, it really is.
And it kind of reminded me that all those numbers, they just don't represent the real world. And they don't represent how people feel.
It's a lot of echo chambers.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 you start doubting yourself, and you kind of have to let go of what those numbers say because they don't really represent life.

Speaker 3 So we take those numbers and kind of do our best to gauge how much interest there is in each city.

Speaker 3 And then we realize there's a lot more interest, and people aren't liking and people aren't commenting, but they're there.

Speaker 1 They're showing up.

Speaker 3 They're showing up, and they might even find their own ways to know that you're playing a tour. So that was kind of a moment for me recently, or the most recent, when I was like, oh,

Speaker 3 those social media numbers don't really represent life.

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Speaker 1 You had your biggest tour ever.

Speaker 3 Ever. And

Speaker 3 by the engagement, I was like, I sometimes ask myself, how do people find out that I play shows?

Speaker 1 Because you don't see it. I don't know.

Speaker 1 I really don't.

Speaker 3 But there's probably other ways. And I remember thinking this way back.

Speaker 1 Word of mouth and people just talking about that. Word of mouth.

Speaker 3 I'm like, people follow their venues or people follow their own channels.

Speaker 3 And this is a really interesting thing about social media or the internet in general.

Speaker 3 I feel like the greatest thing about the internet compared to not having the internet was that we felt internationally connected. You can have friends anywhere in the world, right?

Speaker 3 If you can't afford to travel, you can still be connected to anybody, anywhere. Yet I feel like we've never been more separated.

Speaker 3 And I don't mean this just like because there's distancing, but I feel like our internet is different per person.

Speaker 3 Your internet, your view of the world is so different from mine because everybody gets shown something else.

Speaker 3 And I think a moment I I realized this was this previous election because I have my feed and I've noticed that everything I see in my Twitter feed has nothing to do with any of my interests.

Speaker 1 That's so funny. Why do they push another agenda they don't care about?

Speaker 3 And I feel like at some point Twitter did ask about your interests to better cater it to you.

Speaker 3 But yet everything I see is like the opposite of what I want to see. So my view of the world and who's going to become president was one way.

Speaker 3 And somebody on my team was like, no, it's the exact opposite way. But I'm like, are we seeing the same things? And I think the answer is no, we're not.
Everybody sees their own things.

Speaker 3 So while we're so connected and we use the same platforms, we all live in our own little microcosm of what we see, of what the platform, you know, can make the most ad revenue off.

Speaker 3 We don't really see the same world. That's why there's so much division too, is because everybody sees their own version of reality.

Speaker 3 And how often do you see like, just like it's so obvious, like, you just believe all the lies, and everybody says that about each other? It's like, well, maybe it's not that easy.

Speaker 3 Maybe it's pretty damn hard to figure out what's real and what's not because we all see different things.

Speaker 1 100%. One of the things that I appreciated about my father, who's no longer here, when I was a kid growing up, he would always turn the commercials off

Speaker 1 when we were watching sports or TV together.

Speaker 1 He would turn the commercials off because he didn't want us to be targeted with messaging that he didn't believe our brains needed as like seven-year-old kids, specifically specifically around medications, drugs.

Speaker 1 He didn't want us to be programmed like so many people are sick in the world and you're going to get sick too. So you need this medication.
He didn't want us to think that way.

Speaker 1 And so still today, I don't watch commercials.

Speaker 3 And this is an American TV thing?

Speaker 1 It was just my dad. You know, it's just my dad.
I don't know many people that did this, but my dad just didn't like the American commercials.

Speaker 3 Because there's a lot of medication commercials?

Speaker 1 Probably, I don't know. I don't know what the stats are, but I would say at least a third of commercials.
Really? A hundred percent.

Speaker 3 I've never watched American television, so I'm very unaware.

Speaker 1 I mean, turn off the commercials if you do, because at least a third are either food, like fast food, which is making you need the medication if you eat it all the time. Right.

Speaker 1 Because if you're eating it all the time, have fast food once in a while, sure. But if it's everyday fast food, it's going to make you sick.
And then you need the medication.

Speaker 1 to take care of the sickness.

Speaker 1 That's their solution. And so we just wouldn't watch it.
And I curate my social media like that.

Speaker 1 I only have programming of positive content, positive messages, positive people that I respect that are like saying something as a reminder to positively influence me. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 Otherwise, I will not watch it. Yeah.
Like if it's anything about, unless there's one random thing here and there, but it's like I program my feeds.

Speaker 3 That's awesome.

Speaker 1 Or I delete. something that I don't like or I'll remove it or I'll just whatever, swipe away or whatever it is.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I think

Speaker 1 we need to take power back and responsibility back to what we're consuming. That's true.

Speaker 1 And how we're programming ourselves or allowing platforms to program us and create some type of barriers and boundaries around it. Turn it off,

Speaker 1 unfollow, whatever it is. Even if they feed you other things you don't want, you can probably say remove this type of content over and over and hopefully they won't share it.
Exactly.

Speaker 3 It's not even that easy, though.

Speaker 3 I love what you're doing. I love the suggestion a lot.
I love being fed more positive and like inspiring content instead of dividing and sad and brutal content

Speaker 3 with of course the exception that we all want to know what's going on in the world.

Speaker 1 Be informed but not entertained. Right.
Interesting. Because when give me a newsletter that's telling me 5,000 people died today in this country.

Speaker 1 Cool.

Speaker 1 I'm sad that this happened and that's unfortunate and I'm aware now. Don't show me the visuals.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Because then I'm being entertained and then in my whole body and my nervous system feels like this is is happening everywhere all the time. Yeah.
And it's like, it's a heightened emotion.

Speaker 1 If you see that every second,

Speaker 1 war, killing, anger, screaming, you're just, you're in fight or flight constantly.

Speaker 1 Educate me, inform me through the written word, but don't show me visually. Right.
Wow, we see it. All the time.
I'm sharing with you.

Speaker 1 You're going to see moments here and there, but it's like, minimize that.

Speaker 3 The issue is that the way platforms make their money is by seconds spent on X platform, right?

Speaker 3 So it's this loop we're in. Like, how are we going to, as a society, how are we going to break out of a loop where the wrong things are being rewarded? And then the next person benefits of your wrong.

Speaker 3 It's basically a circle of wrong.

Speaker 3 I mean, I don't have a solution. Maybe we could use AI to help us make it sell.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 3 But it does feel like a strange loop we're finding ourselves in because,

Speaker 3 and you know, part of the AI conversation, I mean, AI is scary, right?

Speaker 1 It is. For you as an artist and a musician, what is the benefit of AI versus the scary part of AI for you?

Speaker 3 The benefit of AI is that there's a lot of tasks that go into producing a song that are incredibly time-intensive.

Speaker 3 And you sit there and go through 400 snare drums until you find the one that you like.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 And you could just say, find me four snare drums like X.

Speaker 3 And you don't have to spend the time. There's a lot of these tasks that you have to do, clean up, remove all the silence.
I mean, you name it, right?

Speaker 3 There's a lot of things that AI can be super helpful with.

Speaker 1 It's been beneficial for you already on your media.

Speaker 3 I think I just hate calling it AI, but we've used AI.

Speaker 1 Software, tools,

Speaker 3 right? It's always been there. Like, I've always used AI, for example, an equalizer that shows me the frequencies that I need to cut.
It's essentially AI. Sure, you can name it that or not.

Speaker 3 So I've used AI my whole career. And

Speaker 3 the more AI tools there are, as an example,

Speaker 3 you give me a random sound, a cowbell, your mug,

Speaker 3 right? And I want to be able to synthesize that sound. I would have to have extensive knowledge of how to create that sound digitally from nothing.

Speaker 3 There's now software that lets you throw in any sound you want. It will re-synthesize it to the point where you can change and alter anything about it.

Speaker 3 That's something that was completely impossible my entire life. And now I can actually play and not sample it.
I'm saying like resynthesize it.

Speaker 3 This is a little bit of a nerd talk, but essentially it's really amazing. It lets us be so creative with something.

Speaker 3 That's a perfect example of AI being super helpful to me. One way AI is scary is that anybody can now write, make me a song that sounds like Zed, but make it better.

Speaker 1 Oh, no,

Speaker 1 and it will do it. That's crazy.
Right?

Speaker 3 So that's, of course, scary. And every single time somebody clicks generate, it gets better because it learns of itself.

Speaker 1 So, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 But it's also fascinating. I mean, I have no idea

Speaker 3 how this will shape things.

Speaker 3 I also think that the human element and anything in civilization is something that will never want to get lost.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and it also goes back to like you built a brand, right? Zed.

Speaker 1 People think of a feeling and an emotion when they see or hear Zed.

Speaker 1 They know there's going to be, for most people, I think, a spiritual, whether they think it consciously or not, there's a spiritual experience inside of them when they see Zed

Speaker 1 or they hear the sound.

Speaker 1 They remember the feeling,

Speaker 1 but they remember the feeling the first time they hear it, or that night in Vegas, or when you came to their city and they had their girlfriend and their boyfriend, and they had this incredible emotional, euphoric experience for two hours.

Speaker 1 Right. And they maybe never felt that ever in their life again.
And so when you build a brand, Zed, with a feeling of

Speaker 1 awe,

Speaker 1 it's hard to create something more powerful than the combination of a brand and the feeling together

Speaker 1 than just ChatGPT saying, make me a better song than Zed.

Speaker 3 Right, because there's probably there's definitely better songs than the ones I make.

Speaker 3 But what you started our conversation with is that a lot of people have met their partners or danced or relieved stress or

Speaker 3 got over something during a show of mine or while a song of mine was playing. That connection to a human, I think, is so much stronger than knowing that a

Speaker 3 randomly generated song

Speaker 3 is technically better, sounds better, is mixed cleaner, which I'm sure all of these things are true.

Speaker 3 And throughout my whole career, with the exception of one song that was out of my hands, I have mixed every single song I've ever released. Wow.
And I'm not the best mixer.

Speaker 3 You know, I have a lot of things to do.

Speaker 3 I write music, I produce music, I mix music, I perform a lot of shows, I have a Vegas residency, I program my own lighting like with my team of course, but I do a lot of things.

Speaker 3 I don't spend all day mixing. So there's mixing engineers who are way better than I am and ever will be.
But my choices, every single choice throughout the mix process of my songs, has personality.

Speaker 3 It's because I like things this way. It's because I like snare to be too loud if I feel like it.

Speaker 1 Right, right, right.

Speaker 3 There's this Dream Brother song on my album where the clap is unbelievably wide. Again, a little bit of nerd talk, but it's essentially very strange.

Speaker 3 And I like the idea of having something so bizarre and weird. And if you gave that to a mixing engineer, he would immediately panic to the center because that's not normal.
But I like it.

Speaker 3 It has character and has this moment of like, I was in the car listening to it and it felt like the claps were coming from like the side of the doors. And I was like, that's cool.

Speaker 3 That's a unique experience. I've never felt that.
I've never heard it. I like it.
It's different.

Speaker 3 So I think the connection to a human and a human making a decision is much more powerful too than the connection to something that's technically on paper better by whichever metric you want to go by.

Speaker 3 So is handmade furniture obsolete because we have IKEA? No.

Speaker 3 People still care for an Etsy as well in a life.

Speaker 1 I hope.

Speaker 3 I love Etsy. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 Because there's people creating things by hand. And I think there's a lot of appreciation for humans doing amazing things.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't think it'll ever fully replace it because I think you need a story and personality behind the art. Maybe there'll be some one-offs or some anomaly of like, oh, AI-generated whatever.

Speaker 1 And like people really appreciate it because it's a unique one-off thing. But I think when you have a personality and you're able to build a brand around emotion

Speaker 1 and something that people love, it's hard to beat that.

Speaker 3 I think you're right. And I think this will hopefully never get old.
And people still want to come to shows, even though they can put

Speaker 3 VR solutions on and technically experience it anywhere, anytime. They still want to be at a show.
And I've actually witnessed this on my last tour while one of my openers was playing.

Speaker 3 I loved watching this. So my openers sometimes have to play pretty early because we only have so many hours we're allowed to make sound.
So people are still trickling in. And it's really fun.

Speaker 1 Not you opening, but someone else coming to open the shelf.

Speaker 3 Yeah, before I go on. And it is something that I've noticed that I really loved seeing.
It was an empty hall. I think it was about 7,000 people in total.
And people slowly trickle in.

Speaker 3 And you can tell nobody knows each other. And then slowly one person likes the song, turns to the left, you can tell they don't know each other.
And I was kind of watching from side stage.

Speaker 3 And two songs later, there's a group of like 10 people that are clearly like now jumping together. And like when one person jumps, everybody jumps.

Speaker 3 And you see these little like circles build throughout a venue. And slowly but surely, they all become one.
It's like almost when you look at ants and you see them do something super coordinated.

Speaker 3 Like, how the hell do you guys know how to do this? That's how it feels when humans in a room slowly start spreading, let's just call it energy, for lack of a better word.

Speaker 3 And eventually, I feel like a good show is when you captured all of the audience.

Speaker 1 Oh, man. That's got to be like a spiritual experience for you.
It is. You see the whole audience move in unison or sing in unison or wave or dance.

Speaker 3 And they don't know each other, but they are all on the same wavelength. And slowly throughout the course of the night, you can see how it spreads and how the circles become bigger.

Speaker 3 It's pretty amazing. I mean humans are amazing.

Speaker 1 They're amazing.

Speaker 3 You know, we're incredible.

Speaker 1 We're

Speaker 3 one of a kind.

Speaker 1 I had the singer Hosier on. I don't know if you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's

Speaker 1 extremely talented, great music.

Speaker 1 And I asked him, like,

Speaker 1 if he ever has any,

Speaker 1 I asked him, what's his most spiritual experience he's had on stage?

Speaker 1 Because he's got the song like Take Me to Church and all these different things.

Speaker 1 And I go, it's a spiritual experience for the audience, but is it also for him and he gave me a really honest answer he was kind of like you know i've kind of i do it so often now like i'm on the road all the time i'm always performing and it's like i don't necessarily take it for granted but it's like

Speaker 1 it's hard to feel that feeling for him is kind of what he was saying he's like i recently did in mexico city the audience was incredible and it was just like so loud and everyone was singing my songs and it's like that kind of felt spiritual but you kind of go through the motions sometimes and you just forget about it do you feel like every show, sometimes you go through the motions, or do you have a spiritual experience certain nights?

Speaker 1 And when you do,

Speaker 1 is there something that you're creating energetically inside of you? Are you in a good zone with your habits and rituals and routine? Are you in a good state emotionally when that happens?

Speaker 1 Like, does that happen? And what are you creating to make that happen?

Speaker 3 I still feel surprised/slash really

Speaker 3 moved by an audience singing along to my music, even though I know they will, I still go on stage and I'm still unsure if people know the songs.

Speaker 3 And that's why I said I never see myself as a celebrity, I never see myself as somebody whose music is widely known.

Speaker 3 Maybe because I've made music for so much longer since I was a kid without anyone knowing anything I do, that I'm more used to it.

Speaker 3 I'm not sure, but I still, when I go on stage, I mean, a festival is probably the best example because festivals have multiple stages. There's lots of amazing artists playing at the same same time.

Speaker 3 I still am always wondering whether somebody's going to show up at my stage. Come on.
Yeah, every time.

Speaker 1 But you're freaking Zed, man.

Speaker 3 I don't know. I mean, I see.

Speaker 1 You see the streams? You get like massive hits, Grabby Award winning.

Speaker 3 I know, but it's not really internalized in that way. I still see myself as Anton.
And, you know, I meet my friends in video games just like randomly.

Speaker 1 I like that.

Speaker 3 I don't see myself as the person that people see myself as.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 3 And I don't think I ever will at this point.

Speaker 1 I think that's actually beautiful.

Speaker 3 Maybe it's a good thing.

Speaker 1 I think it's actually a really good thing. It probably makes you a healthy human being.
Yeah. And you don't believe all the hype of yourself.

Speaker 1 I think it's the worst thing that people can do is believe their own hype. I think you can appreciate what you've created and how hard you've worked.

Speaker 1 And like, man, you've dedicated your life to your craft. Yeah.
And you can not diminish that.

Speaker 1 You can appreciate and have self-respect and self-worth and know your value, but not believe the crazy hype of someone who's just like, oh my god you're incredible i love you know yeah

Speaker 3 i mean i i don't experience that very much again because i don't see myself this way but i do see other people go through that and i don't love seeing that maybe that's why i shy away from it too i think the whole nature of like extreme fandoms and like celebrity and stuff yeah yeah people basically excusing any

Speaker 3 behavior of a person because they love that person. It's like anything that person does is amazing.

Speaker 3 I I just don't think that's healthy to any industry, to any CEO, to any artist, to any actor, whatever that may be. I think always being sort of

Speaker 3 double-checking, making sure you're not doing anything stupid is a good thing. I don't think having an army behind you supporting you through any movie you do is a good thing.

Speaker 3 I don't think it's a good influence on you.

Speaker 1 Is that a European kind of way you were raised? Because it seems like it might be, or is that?

Speaker 3 It's definitely possible. I mean, I'm very much

Speaker 3 a son

Speaker 3 of parents that have raised me one way and I'm that way still.

Speaker 3 I'm really thankful for how my parents raised me.

Speaker 1 How did they raise you?

Speaker 3 It may shock you, but they let me do anything I want.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 3 Yeah. Like, if I didn't want to go to school, I would tell my mom, mom, I'm not going to go to school tomorrow.

Speaker 3 Once, because I didn't study for my exam and if I fail this exam, it's going to be bad for me. Okay, I'll call in and say you're sick.
Or, hey, mom, I'm wasted with my friends.

Speaker 3 We're going to go out tonight. I'm not going to make it to school tomorrow.
Are you sure? Okay, I'll call and say.

Speaker 3 Whenever. But I wouldn't really abuse it as much as you think I would.
Having that power, I learned to appreciate it and I used it.

Speaker 3 I don't want to sound bad sanely, but I used it strategically to get through school because I sucked at school.

Speaker 1 Wow, maybe.

Speaker 3 I was not good. I was good at music and I would help my whole class, but I was not good at school.
It's just not how my brain is wired.

Speaker 3 And maybe I'm using that as an excuse, but I've always been been very

Speaker 3 pushed into creativity not not by my parents but like I always wanted to do something creative and whether that's you know I've always loved video games I've always loved music any sort of art I just wasn't good with numbers

Speaker 3 I loved ethics and you know psychology and that kind of stuff but I really didn't like most of school

Speaker 3 but I didn't abuse it I would you know strategically occasionally call in sick

Speaker 3 but I learned to to juggle power right because Because as a kid,

Speaker 3 deciding when you want to go to school and when you're not is like the most powerful thing you can have as a kid. It's not really money.
You have to go to school, but you don't?

Speaker 3 Like that's pretty powerful as a kid. So I think it kind of maybe taught me to be

Speaker 3 careful with the power that I'm given and respected.

Speaker 3 But yeah, to go back to the question you asked originally, is like, I still am so overwhelmed by people singing along to my music especially going from city to city or country to country or continent to continent um and it's pretty fascinating because every

Speaker 3 almost state is a different variation of human beings really and you can feel it and see it and I sometimes claimed I could hear a clip of an audience and I could tell you which country we're in by the pitch of them singing no way

Speaker 3 Philippines, best singing crowd in the world.

Speaker 3 Like, they're all amazing. Japan is like a close second.
You know, when you hear sing-alongs, you're like, well, it's going to be either there or there.

Speaker 3 You know, Europe is maybe more a little bit of the soccer chant, like off-pitch, but sounds bigger, louder.

Speaker 3 So each country has things that it has to do with weather. The weather affects their mood and attitude.
The language. The language affects how direct or distant or, you know, how you express yourself.

Speaker 3 Like, German is very distant, in my opinion. English, I remember when I came to America and I met Jimmy Iveen,

Speaker 3 who signed me initially at the beginning of my career. And I want to say you.
I want to say something to you.

Speaker 3 And I didn't, I realized there's no other way to say you in the English language than you. While in French or Russian or German, there's multiple you's.
There's a formal and an informal you.

Speaker 3 So you would always use the formal you because you show respect to the person. But I was sitting in front of Jimmy Iveen, this like legend

Speaker 3 who's signing me and I was like saying you that felt so weird to me.

Speaker 3 So every country has something that makes them some sort of ball of energy and you perform there and it just, this energy feels different everywhere you go.

Speaker 3 But anytime I hear people sing along or jump,

Speaker 3 it's not something that gets old to me and I'm used to it, but it still doesn't make it any less amazing.

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Speaker 1 What's the most spiritual experience you've had at a live show you've performed at?

Speaker 3 Oh man, there's going going to be a bad answer because I'm unprepared for this, but there's been so many moments in my life on stage. Like I remember playing Madison Square Garden.

Speaker 3 That was a really special moment because it was my first arena tour and I was on stage and I don't know Madison Square Garden well. I know it from hearing and seeing it.

Speaker 3 up top in the center of the room they have the ring and it says Madison Square Garden. I was just on stage and I kind of looked up and I saw that Madison Square Garden.
I was like, wow, this is crazy.

Speaker 3 I'm actually here on stage and like playing in front of all these people. So that was an amazing moment.
Playing Red Rocks, have you heard of in Denver?

Speaker 1 I've never been there, but I've always wanted to go.

Speaker 3 I remember I was or still am a huge fan of Incubus and they had a DVD.

Speaker 3 I don't know if it was like a bootleg I got somewhere or if it was a real DVD or VHS or whatever it was, but they were playing live at Red Rocks and it just looked so incredible.

Speaker 3 And I was a kid and I set myself the dream one day I'm going to be on that stage playing Red Rocks myself.

Speaker 3 So then when I finally was playing Red Rocks for the first time, it was another one of these moments of like, I can't believe these dreams I set myself so high that I would never reach them, I end up actually reaching and it feels bizarre because I tried to set myself goals I will never reach.

Speaker 3 Wow. And throughout my life, I've kind of surpassed my goals and I always have to keep reaching higher because I like having dreams and I like having goals.

Speaker 3 And I think it's important to have something you work towards or for,

Speaker 3 whatever that is in anybody's life, but I like having the drive to achieve something, whatever that may be.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 When you're playing, I mean, now that you have this information that when you go to a different city, different state, different country, different continent, and you know there's different energy of an audience, like now you know you've been everywhere, you've played everywhere.

Speaker 1 Do you approach every show the same in terms of like setup, the lighting, the loudness of the sound, whatever it might be? Or are you thinking, oh, the Philippines rocks this way?

Speaker 1 So I'm going to change the lights to create a mood and an environment to let them shine.

Speaker 1 And I know in England, they're kind of like a rowdier bunch and they're kind of off tune or whatever, and they're just more screaming rather than like on pitch.

Speaker 1 And so I'm going to make it like louder for them and like, you know, deeper,

Speaker 1 deeper bass, just let them rumble. And it doesn't need to sound the way I like it, but it's going to sound the way it makes them feel most alive.
Have you ever thought about that?

Speaker 3 I haven't thought about what you just said specifically to kind of put the audience on stage in a sense. That's a really, really good approach, really good thought.

Speaker 3 What I definitely do is I change my show depending on where I play.

Speaker 3 I played a show in Mexico a couple weeks ago, and it was, and I didn't know this until I got there, but I was the only electronic artist that day.

Speaker 3 And it was a gigantic festival to make it just the easiest is like their Coachella.

Speaker 3 Huge artists. I was playing at the same time as Toto, which I would have loved to watch myself.

Speaker 1 Toto, the band? Toto, the band. Like Africa? Yeah, yeah.
Oh, man. I saw them play once.
Really? Yeah, I would have loved that. I missed them because I had to be.

Speaker 1 I stayed with the opener for

Speaker 1 a journey. Oh, cool.
And so they

Speaker 3 was this huge festival. First of all, my doubts came in, who's going to watch me when Toto's playing.
Really? As always, yeah, it will never change. It's just how I

Speaker 3 think about myself. But

Speaker 3 I made my set that day, like in the green room, right before I went on stage because I had no idea what to expect. I was talking to the drummer of the Mars Volta.

Speaker 3 They were playing like an hour before. It's like, what kind of audience did you have? And he's like, oh, they really like rock.
I'm like, okay.

Speaker 3 I have some more rock versions or remixes of rock songs. So I added a bunch more rock leaning songs.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 So I will adjust accordingly. When I'm on my tour,

Speaker 3 The Telos tour was a work of art, a movie, in a sense. I'm not going to change the movie because of the theater it's playing in.
I made a movie and I'm there to present the movie as close as possible.

Speaker 3 And I've been adjusting the set a little bit on tour, but it is kind of, I see it as a work of art that I've created that I want people to see.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 3 While in Vegas,

Speaker 3 like if another artist shows up, I will always play a couple songs of that artist, you know.

Speaker 3 I mean, there's, I don't know, I've...

Speaker 3 There's a bunch of things that have happened where I saw people making out in the front row, like an opening artist jumped in the crowd to make out with somebody.

Speaker 3 I know, like, this this is a Vegas thing.

Speaker 3 And I immediately switched to Careless Whisper by George Michael because I was like, that's a funny moment. Like, I know most won't get it because they didn't see it.

Speaker 3 But, you know, in Vegas, it's much more spontaneous. There's no set list.
There's no like,

Speaker 3 whatever you feel in the moment. And I think I told you off camera, but in Vegas, I feel like I'm more of, I'm there to make sure everybody has the best night of their lives.

Speaker 3 I'm not there to promote my album. I'm not there to show the newest drops that I've got.

Speaker 3 I'm there to sometimes test out new music because I want to get information about how a song I'm working on sounds. And I feel like Vegas will

Speaker 1 sound weird, but she's filming back too. They will film less.

Speaker 3 Because people are in their own, you know, they're drinking, they're partying, they're dancing. They're not necessarily there to film and upload it.
And I don't want those things out.

Speaker 3 I just want to get information. So I sometimes will drop a song really quickly, get the information I need, and mix out.
So every

Speaker 3 concert has a different purpose. Wow.

Speaker 3 My tour, my teles tour, is a work of art that I spent with my, like a month with my team working on the finest details and lighting.

Speaker 3 And I still think it's one of the most incredible shows visually possible.

Speaker 3 And I'm really, really proud of it. And

Speaker 3 I'm not really looking into adding a new hit that just went viral because that's not the purpose of it. Now, a viral hit in Vegas, that makes much more sense.
A festival in Japan. I will maybe play.

Speaker 3 And you know, you got to think about things like

Speaker 3 a relatively unknown song of mine has been in a car commercial in Japan. So that song is significantly more popular in Japan than it is in other countries.
So you'll play it there.

Speaker 1 I will play it there.

Speaker 3 So you have to consider all these things when you go to different.

Speaker 3 You don't have to. I play it.

Speaker 1 That's smart because, you know, I speak a lot.

Speaker 1 As a speaker, I'll go on stage. I like to go early.
It kind of sounds similar to what you're doing. And I'll either ask other speakers, how is the audience?

Speaker 1 But I like to go even earlier and ask people like in the hallway, hours before.

Speaker 1 And I like to ask just like people attending whether they know who I am or not I like to just say hey what are you going through in your life right now what's amazing what's your biggest challenge you're going through what are you facing what's like something

Speaker 1 and based on what they say I'll try to use that as information as like this is a general collective of what a lot of people might be feeling and try to speak into that.

Speaker 1 And I'll leave a reference, you know, I talked to Susie in the audience like, oh, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 And she mentioned that she was really struggling in this one in her life. How many other people are feeling like they're struggling in this part of their area of their life?

Speaker 1 And then I can kind of speak in and try to relate to that audience more. That's amazing.
It sounds like you do that as well with, hey, tell the other artists you opened up. How was the vibe?

Speaker 1 Are they like low energy? Do I need to bring it up? They like more rock music. So it's really smart you do.

Speaker 3 I always do that and I always do that at festivals with artists who play after me.

Speaker 3 I was like, hey, just letting you know, they really love, because some audiences love to sing, which, you know, tend to be the shows I do the best. And some audiences want to rage.

Speaker 3 Like every festival is different. So it's really good information if somebody shares that.
I always do with whoever's playing after me. It's like, hey, by the way, they really like XYZ type of music.

Speaker 3 They don't seem to know XYZ. And it really helps the DJ Aftermed to be able to cater a little bit better.

Speaker 3 And I really appreciate when people tell me that most of the times, people, when I'm like, how's the crowd? They're like, they're amazing. You're going to love it.
And they're not.

Speaker 3 I wish they were just honest. Like, I'm not going to be like, just tell me.
You know, it only helps everybody.

Speaker 1 Like, hey, it's really rough.

Speaker 3 They only know the sing-alongs. Like, maybe maybe this wasn't on the radio, maybe they're unaware.
Like, there's many reasons. It's not a personal thing, but I think honesty is just really good.

Speaker 3 But to what you said, where you would go into the audience and ask Susie about something that's gone on in her life and reference it, which sounded crazy to me, but I realized I actually have done this.

Speaker 3 I've done four nights in San Francisco on my tour. And after, I think the first night I did an album signing a meet and greet in a record store.
And people

Speaker 3 came up to me and told me their personal stories, which was

Speaker 3 a lengthy period of time where I got to hear people's connection to my music, which was really, really awesome, which is how we started the conversation.

Speaker 3 And one person said, I've been supporting you since Zelda came out, which was like, I want to say 2010, like before I was signed. It was the very early days.
I'm like, wow, you've been there.

Speaker 3 I mean, I have probably had a couple thousand fans, maybe in the world. Like you were there since day one.
So I was like, I'm going to play Zelda for you tomorrow. No, what?

Speaker 3 And I played it it just for that one person. It was eight and a half thousand people in the room, but it was just for that one person.
That's cool.

Speaker 1 And but there might have been more who were like, I was there since day one.

Speaker 3 But it was this human sort of connection that, you know, maybe an AI on stage wouldn't necessarily appreciate or do.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 This is fascinating. I've got a few more questions for you, but this has been really cool, Anton.
I appreciate you opening up. Likewise, yeah.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 You know, there's a

Speaker 1 there's either a stereotype, a stigma, or

Speaker 1 just just a feeling that you see some artists die young or just get burnt out or stressed out or overwhelmed or they can't take the fame or money or just don't know how to manage it all.

Speaker 1 It seems like it can be daunting. You know, you've seen a lot of younger artists struggle, things like that.

Speaker 1 How have you been able to navigate that yourself with either burnout, the success, the fame?

Speaker 1 And also, how do you manage and navigate it when other artists that you know are struggling, whether they're mental health, suicidal thoughts,

Speaker 1 the overwhelm of needing to be relevant and they're not as relevant, whatever is going on, how do you manage it personally? And then how do you navigate it?

Speaker 1 Because I know you've had friends who've taken their life.

Speaker 1 How do you navigate that as well?

Speaker 3 I think the most important thing in a life where you're always out there, lack of sleep, you're surrounded by alcohol and drugs, girls, whatever that may be, is the people you surround yourself with, the team you build.

Speaker 3 It's the single most important thing. Building a good team that's there for you and not there for you to make money, for them to make money.

Speaker 3 People who care about you as a human being, first and foremost, those are the building blocks of a long and successful career. Starting at the very beginning,

Speaker 3 everybody I work with, I've worked with since 2010. before I had any success.

Speaker 3 Really having trust in people is really, really important.

Speaker 3 And again, building a team that cares for you is really important. And having a human, you know, connection to the team and not just having a person that works for you, but with you.

Speaker 3 That's number one. Same goes for your friends.
Friends are an influence and they can sway you either direction.

Speaker 3 I think surrounding yourself with people that keep you in check, that give you it sometimes is good.

Speaker 3 no matter who you are um

Speaker 3 now if you're one of these artists or if you're an actor or if you're in the public eye and you struggle with suicidal thoughts, I've been surrounded by people.

Speaker 3 I'm lucky enough to have never had those thoughts, but some of my friends in the industry have. And I think it's really important to check in on people.

Speaker 3 And I know people check in on me and I really appreciate it. And I never take that as like, why are you checking in on me? I don't need it.
No, it's always a good thing. Just you don't have to...

Speaker 3 do much beyond, hey, what's been going on? Like, how are you feeling?

Speaker 3 I've had friends who've had suicidal thoughts during the pandemic who are in the industry.

Speaker 3 I have had friends of friends that told me, man, this guy, he drinks way too much and he cannot control it.

Speaker 3 And I reached out to them and we briefly spoke about the fact that I've recently cut down on alcohol consumption a lot.

Speaker 3 I mean, I will drink occasionally when my parents are in town, I'll have a glass of wine with them. That's fine.
I'm not a, you know, not black or white.

Speaker 3 But my default used to be to drink on stage.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 3 Always, for over 10 years, every show.

Speaker 1 Was it like a nerves thing or was it more just...

Speaker 3 It was a mixture of, I think there are advantages to having alcohol in you because you feel like you're connecting more with the people that have alcohol in them. It loosens you up a little bit.

Speaker 3 It makes you less nervous because I still get nervous.

Speaker 1 Still?

Speaker 3 And I know this because I wear a wood tracker.

Speaker 1 Right, right. And

Speaker 3 every single show. And I don't put in when I start my show.
It knows exactly when my show starts.

Speaker 3 So that tells me that.

Speaker 1 It might also just be excitement.

Speaker 3 It is. I mean, it's partially excitement, right? They're kind of linked in a sense, but I do know that I still get some sort of body reaction when I go on stage.

Speaker 3 And I thought for the longest time, first of all, probably 10 years ago, I told my touring team, if I ever drink too much, like if I become an alcoholic, you have to tell me because I'll be the last person to know.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 If you're the alcoholic, and we've probably most of us have been around people like that, you don't know.

Speaker 3 know and you're gonna argue you're not right so i told them right away because i drink a lot this is years ago like you have to tell me if it gets too much because i won't know um did they trust myself did they tell you they didn't and i still like i would consider myself a functioning alcoholic before they would and and i think i trust them enough to to to know that they would tell me if something was really wrong um so what made you want to stop drinking as much what made me want to um the

Speaker 3 stupid answer but i started writing down my calories every every single thing I eat or drink everything I made a spreadsheet that is as easy to use as possible and I had other other DJs ask me for that because I'm not alone there's other people going through whatever you're going through always

Speaker 3 anytime you want to google something somebody's googled it before you right that's the general gist so I started writing down my calories because I wanted to lose fat and gain muscle and I started going down the rabbit hole of like how do you do that well it's all about you know it's the the very shortest is calorie in calorie out yes I started writing down all my calories and little things you wouldn't even think, like

Speaker 3 AG1, 50 calories.

Speaker 3 You know, you have 10 of those things throughout the day, that's a full meal. So I started writing them down.
And there was this one show where I was pretty hungry. And I had the show at 1.30 a.m.

Speaker 3 starting. And I look at my sheet and I'm like, well, I can either drink or eat because a shot of alcohol, just for the ones who are interested, is just about 100 calories, right? One shot?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I guess you don't drink 10.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And you can go through 10 shots a night. No problem.

Speaker 1 Probably cow. That's a little bit.
That's two meals. Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's, it's, you know, you're you can have your entire day's worth of uh calories and nutrients. Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 3 So I looked at it and I was like, okay, well, I can't afford to drink today because I don't have the calories. And if you mix it with other things, it's even more.

Speaker 1 Sugar and sprider drinks. It's like more calories.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Even more calories.

Speaker 3 So I looked at my sheet and I was like, okay, well, today, because I want to stay on track, you can undo a whole week of starving and doing well and working out by one silly night out.

Speaker 3 And I will even argue that it's worth it to do that occasionally, sure. If the right circumstances are met.
But in that every night and every week.

Speaker 1 It was my default, right?

Speaker 3 It wasn't even, it got to the point where I would show up. And I want to thank everybody who does this because it just shows how much they care.

Speaker 3 But I would show up to places and people would know my favorite drink, which was Jack and Coke Zero for a long time.

Speaker 1 There's all of it.

Speaker 3 And it was pre-mixed the moment I walk in. So I didn't even have to ask for it.
Like that's really good hospitality, but it became a norm.

Speaker 3 It became like Anton's drinking and he's drinking Jack and Coke. I would have two before go on throughout the two-hour set, probably two to three on, and like one or two after, right?

Speaker 3 We're talking about

Speaker 3 more because it's mixed than like there's probably a shot or two in between. And you feel it the next morning.
Oh, yeah.

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Speaker 3 So two things happened. I started realizing through wearing a whoop that when I drinked alcohol, my recovery was awful, even if I didn't feel that way.

Speaker 3 But I don't always trust how, I don't trust how I feel. I don't trust my memory because I think it's really just in general, human beings, memories are pretty bad.
I trust something that has no

Speaker 1 personality.

Speaker 3 It's just there to tell me. So if my heart is working overtime just to keep my body clean or cleanse it from the alcohol, something is going on that's probably not ideal.

Speaker 3 So I looked at it and I was like, I don't like that I'm not doing something good to my body, number one. Number two was I just didn't have room for calories.

Speaker 3 So there was this one show. that I previously mentioned where I realized I'm not going to have any room for calories.
So I'm going to have to play it sober.

Speaker 3 And that was gonna be my first sober Vegas show.

Speaker 3 And Vegas is a much tougher audience than virtually any other place that you can play because not everybody bought a ticket to see you because people go to Vegas to go to Vegas as well.

Speaker 3 You're one element of the night. And I was really concerned because for the longest time I thought I wouldn't be able to play shows live.

Speaker 3 And one of the DJs that I was kind of tipped off on drinking way too much said that exact thing. I could never do this sober, right?

Speaker 3 And that's a really, really dangerous thing to say when you play a lot of shows.

Speaker 3 And I remember going on stage, playing sober,

Speaker 3 45-ish minutes passed into my set, and I had this like moment of waking up where I realized, wait, I'm sober.

Speaker 1 I felt drunk.

Speaker 3 I felt exactly the same drunk as I felt before. And that made me realize that what I thought the alcohol was giving me, it wasn't the alcohol ever.

Speaker 3 It was the adrenaline, it was the excitement, it was the connection to the people. And that moment, I was like, oh my God, I can, of course, do this sober because I was scared to lose this feeling.

Speaker 3 And I was scared that if I lose this feeling, I'm going to suck on stage. Wow.
And if I suck on stage, I will just retire. Because why would I even do that, right?

Speaker 3 I don't have to do it if I don't want to. And I had this fear that it's the end of my career if I stop drinking, essentially.
Because me sucking on stage, people come to last shows. I make no money.

Speaker 3 I can't afford my team. I'm retiring.
It's a full.

Speaker 1 I'm a relevant.

Speaker 1 I'm dead. I'm a a relevant.

Speaker 3 But the moment I played a sober show, I was like, wow, it's not the alcohol. I just thought it's the alcohol.
It's really just that I love what I do.

Speaker 1 Dude, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 That was such a big realization. And I immediately reached out to that other DJ and was like, you should try playing sober.
And tried playing sober for a week and then went back to drinking.

Speaker 3 Now, I can't convince somebody. If somebody doesn't want to have help,

Speaker 1 I don't think you can change them.

Speaker 3 But I think it's important to at least check in, have a conversation, because for me, the realization that this excitement is the carrying point and not the alcohol was so, so big.

Speaker 3 Because I had the fears of end of my career if I stop drinking. Wow.
That's pretty crazy to think about.

Speaker 3 But it was in me.

Speaker 3 It was a fear I genuinely had because the moment I go on stage and I don't like what I'm doing,

Speaker 3 I'm going to retire the next morning and cancel everything that's upcoming because I don't have to do anything I don't want to do and I'm unbelievably lucky to be able to say that.

Speaker 3 And there's another DJ that will take my spot, you know, gladly. I don't want to take anybody's time away if what I'm doing isn't fulfilling me with happiness.

Speaker 3 And I really believe part of the reason why people love coming to my shows and coming back to my shows is because I love what I do and I think it translates.

Speaker 3 I think people can tell that I love and it gets them hyped too. And then I see them hyped and it gets me hyped.
It's this ecosystem of like excitement sharing.

Speaker 1 100%. Yeah.

Speaker 3 If I'm the one who's not having a good time and I see people do this and I can tell they're not having a good time, I just think it's like for the better to just maybe not do it at all. Wow.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 If you don't enjoy what you're doing.

Speaker 1 Dude, I'm so glad you're saying this. And it's beautiful that you can be a model for other DJs and artists to be able to, hey, you've done it with alcohol and without it.

Speaker 1 You're just as effective, if not more effective, because you're more present, you're more aware, all these different things, probably.

Speaker 3 I'm a significantly better DJ sober.

Speaker 1 That's interesting. I can have a shot.
It's going to be okay.

Speaker 3 But just the realization that, wait, I'm better at my craft. I can deliver a better result for people who have spent their hard-earned money coming to my show.
It's a good thing.

Speaker 3 Sure, I can have a shot if there's something to celebrate. Nobody will take that personally.
They will probably be stoked that I did that because they're doing the same.

Speaker 3 But it's almost my duty to do anything I can to deliver the best job possible.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 I've got a couple of final questions for you, Anton. I know you've got to jump out of here soon.

Speaker 1 To finish with that, 20, I don't know, 22, 23 years ago, I was going out to the clubs to Paul Olkenfold and Tiesto and Ferry Korsten and like kind of those guys back in the day.

Speaker 1 And I remember I would go, and I think I was probably the only one that was sober at every club I'd go to, right? My like 21, 22-year-old self, right?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I would go and I'd maybe have sprite or have like a Red Bull or water or something, but I would just, I didn't need alcohol to feel alive.

Speaker 1 And everyone would ask me like, are you drunk? Because I was just like jumping the whole night in my dance and in it. And I was like, nah, man, just get high on life.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the energy can bring you alive, I think. Yeah.
And if you bring the energy, you're also going to feel that as well.

Speaker 3 So that's a really amazing thing for you to say, because I will also admit my own shortcomings in being in the audience perspective.

Speaker 3 Because I have a friend who hadn't had any alcohol until I believe age 31-ish. And he was the hardest partier out of all of us.

Speaker 1 Going crazy, right? Like, ah, you know.

Speaker 3 He must have been high on life because there was nothing else to be high on.

Speaker 3 He also never done any drugs. And I will say, I still am very inexperienced in going out and partying sober.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 First of all, I don't really go out.

Speaker 1 Sure. You don't go out at all? Ever.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 But when I do, I still feel so much anxiety to do it. But I love hearing you say that because it kind of teaches me that the same perspective of you can probably be better at what I do on stage.

Speaker 3 I can probably have a better time and I wake up the next day not feeling like because that's 100 i mean you've never been hungover never it's the i mean it's not the worst thing food poisonings but right right being hungover is so terrible it ruins and that was the other thing being hungover directly translates to you not being able to work out as well and i was in this state of i had a perfect equilibrium between work health and working out and every time i drank it was like boom yeah and everything was off you know i couldn't work out i would cancel my workout i would skip one and then like everything it had such a ripple effect on on me that I think just cutting down on alcohol was was was huge I don't know if there's any benefit strong enough for the case of drinking a lot of alcohol like if you want to have a glass of wine or a shot once in a while cool whatever but I don't know if there's a benefit of like hey I'm getting hammered tonight

Speaker 1 beyond that moment. There's no other benefits.

Speaker 1 And what it does to your brain and your health of like the consistency of that, there can be be any good in that do you think people will still be drinking alcohol 50 or 100 years from today 100 really because people people

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 none of their own fault i mean i'm

Speaker 1 and i'm not here to judge because i wouldn't i've like had sugar highs right like my whole life like that's been my advice is like okay i'm gonna eat like a bucket of ice cream which is equally as bad in certain ways right it's got its own thing

Speaker 1 I just think that whenever there's ability to do the easier way, if you're feeling anxious, stressed, overwhelmed,

Speaker 1 for me, it's like, let me go to sugar, let me go to comfort food, whatever it is, whatever the easy way is, humans are going to go that way.

Speaker 1 If it's alcohol, because it doesn't seem like the big issue and it makes you feel more relaxed, like whatever's the easier way, smoking cigarettes or e-cigs, like

Speaker 1 the easy way to numb something is what human beings are going to do.

Speaker 1 Unless they're really

Speaker 1 trained on how to regulate their emotions. And if you don't know how to regulate emotions, then you don't know how to get through life.

Speaker 1 And you need something

Speaker 1 to stimulate and calm or soothe you and comfort you. It doesn't mean you're bad or wrong.
It's not about good or bad. It's about does it serve you?

Speaker 1 Does it serve you? Does it serve the people around you with you being

Speaker 1 drunk or high or on drugs and then the next day not able to deliver or perform or you're forgetful? Is it serve your life?

Speaker 3 yeah

Speaker 3 i mean it's a really good question to ask you know everybody's answer may be different and i will admit that in my early 20s i didn't get hungover at all so if i if you had asked me this question when i was 23 i would probably say yeah it does because i'm no longer nervous uh-huh i'm it's like you know socially I'm much easier to like meet people.

Speaker 3 100%. Serves me, serves me.
And the next morning I wake up not feeling like sh ⁇ .

Speaker 1 Interesting. I'm good.

Speaker 3 But there comes an age where long-term effects right yeah you pay the price

Speaker 3 you pay the price and the price gets higher by the day man and at some point it's too much to pay and that's when you have to start so like when i when people ask me for advice it depends like yes hey should i cut alcohol well it depends everything depends everything isn't a nuance if you're 21 years old and you go on a date with a girl and you want to not be so nervous and you guys want to have a glass of wine there's nothing wrong with it in my opinion sure sure yeah

Speaker 3 if you're asking me that question at 41 and you know you're gonna miss your entire week of working out and it's got all these side effects, well, maybe the answer is no. Right.

Speaker 3 Everybody has to decide for themselves. I think everybody's case is different.
100%.

Speaker 3 But what's really, really important is to kind of learn about yourself. Like, why do you do it?

Speaker 3 Do you trust people around you to tell you when you do it too much? Because I see it all the time.

Speaker 3 I know of people who, in my opinion, drink way too much and I see patterns where I think they can't control it and they're playing it off as like, it's funny or like

Speaker 3 it's it's really not funny at all it's obnoxious to me it's a it is a

Speaker 3 it is just a form of them being an an

Speaker 3 alcoholic you know so it's it's a difficult thing to joke about but I think it's it's good to have people around you that you trust to tell you when you're doing it anything too much 100%

Speaker 1 given from your team we got to get you out of here so I've got two final questions for you quickly

Speaker 1 as I could go for hours with you here but I want people to

Speaker 1 number one, I want to go one of your shows. So I want to go to Vegas or where, you know, if you're on tour,

Speaker 1 people got to go to the show. We'll bring you.
Okay, cool. But I want people to go see you live.
So where can they go to see you live?

Speaker 3 So the easiest way to see my whole touring schedule is zet.net.

Speaker 1 Zet.net.

Speaker 3 And it will always show my Vegas shows. I would typically say I'm in Vegas every two weekends, I believe.
We just realized. So I'm there all the time.

Speaker 3 So, you know, on all the bigger weekends, I will be there.

Speaker 3 And then my telos tour is a little bit of a different thing that we just wrapped up, but we might announce a couple more shows. So

Speaker 3 you can follow me on socials, but I'm not sure you're going to see what I post.

Speaker 1 So, you know, you might have to just check the website.

Speaker 3 But yeah, I mean, I'm usually, I rarely take time off. I'm kind of always on tour.
And when I'm not, I'm in the studio. So there's a good chance that I'll be in your city.

Speaker 1 Awesome. Very cool.
So check it out, Zed.met at Zed over on social media, everywhere. These are the two final questions for you.

Speaker 1 Before I ask them, Anton, I want to acknowledge you for being an example for so many people in your industry to continue to transform yourself.

Speaker 1 You got the loop on, you're talking about like eating healthier. I think that could be one of the biggest things that holds artists back who will continue to make it at your level.

Speaker 1 where they let go of their health.

Speaker 1 And so to see you take back control of your health and say, how can I continue to improve and not let the anxiety, the overwhelm, the stress get to me and feel like I need to do more, but how can I actually take a step back, reflect, work on my health a little bit better?

Speaker 1 I want to acknowledge you for that, man. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 It's beautiful to see because I hate to see talented people and good people burn themselves out. Yeah.
So I appreciate and acknowledge you for that. Thank you.

Speaker 1 And I also acknowledge you again for being a light to so many people and bringing healing energy to the world, whether you're conscious of it or not, whether you're planning to do it or not,

Speaker 1 you're doing it. And hopefully you'll think a little bit more about that in the future.
When you step out on stage and you say, how can I bring healing energy?

Speaker 1 I think you're going to notice something extremely powerful shift over time when you bring that intention to the audience and what you'll receive in return with just the intention that I'm here to heal.

Speaker 1 That's awesome.

Speaker 1 I'm curious to see whether you take it or not. I will take it.
I will report back. I see, yeah.

Speaker 3 It's just that I never think about it, but it doesn't mean it's not there. 100%.

Speaker 1 100%. Healing energy.

Speaker 1 Two final questions. I got to be quick with you.

Speaker 1 One is, if you could imagine you get to live as long as you you want to live, but it's the last day on earth for you.

Speaker 1 It's far out in the future, but it's the last day. You get to accomplish every dream that you have from this moment until the last day you're here on earth.

Speaker 1 But for whatever reason, on the last day, you have to take all of your work with you. This conversation, gone.
All your music, gone. Anything you've ever said, gone.

Speaker 1 But you get to leave behind three lessons with the world that we would have to keep from you. What would be those three lessons that you would leave behind with the world?

Speaker 1 Well, that's such a deep question.

Speaker 3 Let me think about this. Three lessons that I would leave.

Speaker 3 Okay, so one core principle of my life is good people, good times.

Speaker 3 That is lesson number one. It doesn't matter what you do or go through, as long as you go through it or do it with people you love, you will always have a good time.

Speaker 3 Probably the most important lesson I have to give at all.

Speaker 3 Second lesson is that I believe humans can achieve anything as long as you devote enough time and dedication to it.

Speaker 3 And I was having a conversation about perfect pitch, something that we're born with or not born with. And then I heard that in China,

Speaker 3 like an exceedingly large number of people have perfect pitch. And I was like, well, what

Speaker 3 why are they born with perfect pitch? And I believe it has to do with the fact that their language is way more complex and has intonations built into the meaning of words.

Speaker 3 So it's not just the word, but at what pitch you say it. So that I'm just throwing out a theory is that if you practice anything long enough, you can get really good at it.

Speaker 3 So people tell me, well, I'm 23, I wish I started piano early. Well, you start at 23 and you devote as much as you can to it.

Speaker 3 And I really think you can become a writer, a performer, anything you want. So the human capacity is unbelievable.
And I think my lesson is that at any age you want, you can start anything.

Speaker 3 As long as you really devote yourself to it, You can become great at it.

Speaker 3 Lesson number three. Oh, what could be lesson number three? Sleep.

Speaker 3 Silly one, but sleep matters so much. I've underestimated the effects of sleep and the need of sleep.

Speaker 3 Everything I do in my 24 hours, minus the sleep, suffers drastically when I don't get good sleep.

Speaker 3 So invest in a good pillow. Invest in a good mattress and in a good chair for working throughout the day.
I think if you look at the amount of money you spend on coffee and other

Speaker 3 things throughout your life, overall throughout your life, a good mattress and a good pillow is a good investment. So

Speaker 3 really take sleep seriously.

Speaker 1 Awesome. Three good lessons.
Final question, Anton, what's your definition of greatness?

Speaker 3 Oof, my definition of greatness.

Speaker 3 Can you give me an example?

Speaker 1 My definition is to pursue your unique talents and gifts, or excuse me, to maximize your unique talents and gifts in pursuit of your dreams.

Speaker 1 And in that pursuit, make the maximum impact on the people around you

Speaker 1 in a positive way. For me, that's greatness.

Speaker 1 But I've been practicing this for 12 years.

Speaker 3 That's an incredible answer. I think anything I say will be in that same realm.
And it really follows my life.

Speaker 3 philosophy of surrounding yourself with people that you love, that inspire you, that you can inspire back.

Speaker 3 I wish I had a better definition that I can like just say like that, but just to explain it, I think

Speaker 3 it's going to be almost a copy of yours, but really following your dreams and following your guide and not letting me or anyone else tell you what to do or how to do, but really do it the way you want to do it because you're one of a kind and nobody is you and you have your own unique talents and energy and completely follow the guide that that is.

Speaker 3 Don't listen to me.

Speaker 1 My man.

Speaker 1 Appreciate you, man. I appreciate you.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed this and if you found value, make sure to share this with one friend.

Speaker 1 Just copy and paste the link and text a friend where you feel would be truly inspired by this episode as well.

Speaker 1 And also, make sure to click the follow button on Apple or Spotify, wherever you're listening to this episode, because we have a massive episode coming up next that I do not want you to miss.

Speaker 1 So make sure to follow this and be on the lookout for the next episode coming with some massive content and guests. Also, I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy.

Speaker 1 And if you are looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy.

Speaker 1 I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up.

Speaker 1 Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the school of greatness.

Speaker 1 I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

Speaker 1 Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links.

Speaker 1 And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally as well as ad-free listening then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on apple podcasts share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on apple podcasts as well let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review i really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.

Speaker 1 And I want to remind you of no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something

Speaker 1 great.

Speaker 4 Hey there, it's Katie Nolan, host of Casuals, the sports podcast where we don't care how much you know about sports, we're just happy that you're here.

Speaker 4 Every week, I hang out with some of my good friends to discuss the biggest stories across sports and entertainment, but in a way that's like fun and not boring.

Speaker 4 Want to know Sue Bird's favorite Diana Taurasi story? Or how heavy the Larry O'Brien trophy is? Or even what baseball team is right for you based on your moon sign?

Speaker 3 We got you.

Speaker 4 Listen to casuals every Tuesday and Thursday on the SiriusXM app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 Bye!

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