Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Speaker 1 My friend, welcome back to this episode.

Speaker 1 If you're feeling stuck in anywhere in your life, if you like there's people holding you back or there's people you have resentment with or there are family members, friends, intimate relationships you're in where you just feel like, I'm not getting what I want, there are two words that can transform your life right now if you're willing to receive, accept, and follow through on them.

Speaker 1 Those two words are let them.

Speaker 1 Let them.

Speaker 1 So many of us struggle with trying to please others, with trying to over deliver for other people.

Speaker 1 And we let others do things to us that frustrate us.

Speaker 1 And when we allow these things to happen and we hold on to it and we're frustrated and we're attached to it needing to look a certain way, we suffer. They don't suffer.
We suffer.

Speaker 1 We struggle, we stress, and it causes us to weaken our energy every single moment of every day in our lives. And it makes it harder to get through life.

Speaker 1 Let them will set you free if you can learn to detach from what you cannot control. In this episode with Mel Robbins, she has brought forth

Speaker 1 a philosophy that has been around for a long time, but modernized it in a way for so many people

Speaker 1 to be able to actualize it, to be able to utilize it, to be able to understand and start applying it in their lives. And it is starting to build a massive movement all around the world.
Let them.

Speaker 1 Most people are attached.

Speaker 1 on trying to control the situation with so many people in their lives and they don't let people be themselves and mel is here today she's on a mission to change lives around the world and letting people finally be free from the things that have hold them back for so long i know i've suffered with trying to please people in the past i know i've struggled with this i've held resentments against people i've judged people all these different things

Speaker 1 and mel talked about her in this episode, how she has struggled for almost 50 years of her life in trying to control every relationship. And in the last few years, she transformed this.

Speaker 1 It has set her free. And she's going to break down the exact keys that have been holding you back and how to set yourself free from this entire process and philosophy.

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Speaker 1 Please connect with one person in your life to serve them as well with this episode because it is a powerful one and I cannot wait for us to dive in with the one and only Mel Robbins.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back, everyone, in the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guests.
We have the inspiring, the incredible Mel Robbins in the house. So good to see you, Mel.
Lois. Thanks for being here.

Speaker 1 I love you.

Speaker 2 Love you too. Let's just start with that.

Speaker 1 Appreciate you.

Speaker 1 Appreciate you. This is going to be a big moment for everyone watching and listening because you've got a new book out called Love, Let Them Theory

Speaker 1 that has taken the world by storm. A video you posted, I think it was a couple of years ago that changed people's lives and continues to.

Speaker 1 And there's one thing that I wanted to ask you to start that I think you have a unique perspective on that most people don't. You've spoken all over the world.

Speaker 1 You're one of the biggest speakers in the world. You've got one of the biggest podcasts in the world.
Your social media has exponentially grown to a whole new heights in the last few years.

Speaker 1 And you get to hear everyday people's perspective on what holds them back the most.

Speaker 1 When you're speaking on stage in different cities and different countries, people of different classes, different demographics, different financial

Speaker 1 statuses, and you're hearing young people, old people, moms, dads, kids, you're hearing people of all walks of life.

Speaker 1 And what I want to know is, what is everyone's biggest problem today? What is the biggest thing that holds everyone back? Is it a physical thing? Is it an emotional thing? Is it relationships?

Speaker 1 Is it money? Is it something in their mind? What is the number one thing you hear from everyone in in the world that only you have a unique perspective on?

Speaker 2 That is one hell of a question.

Speaker 2 And I can't wait to hear your response when I tell you what it is.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 No, I'm serious. Okay.

Speaker 2 Because I didn't see this until two years ago.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 what's interesting is that we all think we know. what is holding us back.

Speaker 2 And we describe it, whether it's money or time or I'm exhausted or I'm stuck or it's my past or it's my mindset.

Speaker 2 And it's not that at all.

Speaker 2 If you're not happy, if you don't have what you want in life, if you're exhausted, tired, stuck, or overwhelmed,

Speaker 2 the problem isn't what you think it is.

Speaker 2 In fact, the problem isn't you. The problem is the power you are unknowingly giving to other people.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I didn't see it.

Speaker 2 I didn't see this until about two years ago when there was this just kind of random thing that happened to me.

Speaker 2 And I

Speaker 2 was,

Speaker 2 I'll tell you the quick story and then we can get into the let them theory and how you've made other people a problem.

Speaker 2 And there are

Speaker 2 eight key ways. that you have turned other people into the biggest obstacle in your life.
And other people should be one of the greatest sources of inspiration, and connection, and joy, and love.

Speaker 2 And instead, they are a constant source of stress and frustration and energy drain, and they do not have to be.

Speaker 2 And it is this invisible obstacle that is in everybody's way, that is stealing your time, is stealing your energy, and you don't even realize it.

Speaker 2 And there's a totally different way to go through life. And so, first, I'm going to tell you the story about how I had this life-changing insight.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I have three kids, 25-year-old, 23-year-old, both girls, and a 19-year-old son. And our two daughters had gone through the prom, right, twice.
And let's talk about a nightmare, okay?

Speaker 2 If you ever want to experience high stress, Do a high school prom with a daughter and you'll experience five months of drama around dresses and spray tans and makeup and nails and restaurants and limos and who they're going to go and the promposals.

Speaker 2 And I mean, it's literally what the unbelievable. You basically need a colonic and a spade after the whole thing is over in therapy for three months because of the buildup.

Speaker 2 So I just figured we've gone through this thing four times already with our daughters. When Oakley rolls around, got to be a breeze.
Completely wrong. It was almost worse.

Speaker 2 Yes, because he was so non-committal. And, you know, everybody that's got a brother or a son or, you know, is a dude is like, yeah, uh-huh.

Speaker 1 He wasn't sure he was going to go. I turned turned around, right?

Speaker 2 I don't know, and like, don't you want to go? And I'm starting to kind of needle him about it. I don't know.

Speaker 2 And then, all of a sudden, Lewis, two days before the thing, he's like, All right, I'm going. And now we have to find a tux.

Speaker 2 And we live in the middle of nowhere in Vermont, and he wants a certain kind of Adidas shoes that we got to find online and get shipped.

Speaker 2 And then he's going to all of a sudden ask some chick he doesn't know. And what croissage is this, that, the other? And so we get to the night of prom.

Speaker 2 And by the way, in the middle of these 48 hours, Chris and I have been talked into now hosting the post-prom at our house. And so it was just this crazy whirlwind.

Speaker 2 And so we go to this party that happens before prom where everybody's taking the photos. And we walk in and we meet his date

Speaker 2 and we're milling about and talking to other parents. And then all of a sudden out of nowhere, it starts to rain.
And by rain, I mean pouring rain.

Speaker 2 We live in the mountains, so it just kind of comes in and out, but it was not in the forecast. So you've got 20 kids in black tie and heels

Speaker 2 in the middle of the woods in pouring rain, and the parents are starting to get on edge. And I turn to Oakley and I'm like, dude, like, where are you guys going for dinner? He's like, dinner.

Speaker 2 What do you mean? I'm like, you don't have plans for dinner? Problem doesn't serve for two hours. What do you do?

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 2 And so I turn to Chris. I'm like, they don't have plans for dinner? He's like, I guess not.
It didn't bother Chris, but for some reason, I'm now starting to get stressed.

Speaker 1 Why? I don't know. It's not your life.
Correct.

Speaker 2 I'll explain why it was getting stressed. So I start to go, okay, well, let me help.
And so I start looking for a reservation. Some other moms and dads start trying to figure things out.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, I can't find anything. And the rain's getting worse and worse.
And I turned to Oak and I'm like, I can't find anything.

Speaker 2 Well, we're just going to go to the taco stand.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, the tacos, dude, it's outside. You're going to get so.
And I start to just feel the stress coming up.

Speaker 2 And my daughter, Kendall, who lives here in Los Los Angeles was home from college and she reached out and grabbed my arm Lewis and kind of pulled me toward her and she's like mom you're being so annoying and I was like but but but and she's like mom let him do what he wants and I'm like but he's gonna get so let him go to the taco center but there's no room but but and and she kept saying let him let him let him And every objection was like, his shoes are going to get soaked, her heels are going to get ruined, her dress, the this, the that.

Speaker 1 And finally, she just was like, let them do what they want.

Speaker 2 It's their problem, not yours.

Speaker 2 And there was something, Lewis, about that moment of the cascading, let them, let them, let them, let them.

Speaker 2 That it was almost like the final one was a sledgehammer that hit me and I just felt my whole body release.

Speaker 2 And I kind of thought,

Speaker 2 well, why do I care about this? Why am I not worry about where I'm eating

Speaker 2 and so I felt myself just detach

Speaker 2 I felt a sense of peace take over

Speaker 2 and I walked up to Oakley and he turned he's like now what and I'm like nothing dude here's 40 bucks go have fun and you then saw him

Speaker 2 drop his shoulders and smile and

Speaker 2 thanks mom And he and his date ran out the door and sure enough, mud all over the back of her dress and his shoes were ruined and they they were soaking wet by the time they got to Chris's truck.

Speaker 2 It was super cute.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 I went home, I went to bed, and then the next morning I was at like a garden center.

Speaker 2 You know, if you ever go to like a big store and there's a garden center, and so you're standing there in line, there's like five people in front of us, and there's one cashier.

Speaker 1 Beep,

Speaker 1 beep, beep.

Speaker 2 Pause for small talk.

Speaker 1 Small talk a lot.

Speaker 1 Beep.

Speaker 2 And if you've ever been in line at a grocery store and the lines are backing up and there's no one else coming to the front and there's no announcement getting made, what happens?

Speaker 2 You start to feel the stress rise. And then you start to rock and you feel agitated and impatient.
And suddenly you think you can run a grocery store better than anybody else.

Speaker 2 And, you know, and you're starting to turn to the person behind you and you're like, rolling your eyes. And can you believe this?

Speaker 2 And I felt it coming and I said, let them.

Speaker 2 Let them run the store however they want.

Speaker 2 And I get home and I open up the door and the dog has puked right in that entryway.

Speaker 1 Let them.

Speaker 2 I'm dead serious. And so all day long, whether it was traffic backing up or I send a text to somebody and they send like something sort of passive, let them.

Speaker 2 And I started to feel this instant lever of peace.

Speaker 2 And I started to feel this sense of protection from all the this stupid stuff that I was allowing to drain my energy and to waste my time.

Speaker 2 And if you stop and think about it, your single most valuable resources are time and energy. Because where you spend your time and what you pour your energy into determines the quality of your life.

Speaker 2 And what I started to notice very, very, very quickly, like within 24 hours, is that the reason why I didn't have a lot of time is because I was spending it getting worked up about stupid things.

Speaker 2 The reason why my energy was so drained is because I was allowing other people's behavior or things that were happening around me to actually drain my energy.

Speaker 2 And saying let them became this lever I could pull any moment where I felt my time and attention

Speaker 2 getting sucked towards something that truly wasn't worth my time and energy or didn't matter or more importantly beyond my control. Because the dog's already thrown up.

Speaker 2 So I can't control what just happened. And as you talk about all the time, and as lots of people talk about,

Speaker 2 it's not about what's happening. It's about how you respond to it.

Speaker 2 And the problem that I've always had with stoicism or letting it go or principles that are about being more peaceful and boundaries is that I never knew how to apply it.

Speaker 2 Like, let's take the concept of let it go. I don't want to let it go.

Speaker 2 Because it feels like you. Well, I'll tell you why.
It feels like I'm losing.

Speaker 2 You know, when somebody says to you, Lewis, you just got to let it go.

Speaker 2 They're basically saying, you lose. So stop worrying about it.

Speaker 2 That person won. You got to let it go.

Speaker 1 And what if there's an example of like, okay, someone in your company steals 100 grand from you or does or takes something from you or does something that you're like, do I just let it go?

Speaker 2 Well, it's a great question.

Speaker 1 Do I just let them take whatever they want? Do I just let them

Speaker 1 scrap all over me all the time?

Speaker 2 Because that actually happened to me.

Speaker 2 So I had two things happen in my company.

Speaker 2 One where we had a contractor that literally stole our database and lied about a campaign that we thought we were paying for that was going on and it never actually happened and they presented fake data.

Speaker 2 Now, I have to let them

Speaker 2 because it happened and I didn't know until I discovered it too late. But there's a second part to this theory

Speaker 2 because of course I'm going to get upset and I'm going to be pissed off.

Speaker 2 But allowing myself to stay in that state of rage,

Speaker 2 what I know is it doesn't allow me to leverage this part of my brain to then respond.

Speaker 2 And that's the second part of this theory that I discovered, which is once you say let them, you detach from the thing you can't control.

Speaker 2 Because the other thing that happened to me, Lewis, and I think I've shared this story with you before, is that I was also the victim of a big wire fraud scam, $350,000.

Speaker 2 A scam that's very common in the real estate business where somebody breaks into a server and just intercepts emails and then changes banking information.

Speaker 1 $350 is a lot.

Speaker 2 No kidding. But by the time I figured it out, the money was gone.

Speaker 1 Gone.

Speaker 2 Gone.

Speaker 2 And the more upset that you get about something, the less you use,

Speaker 2 the more upset that you get about something, the faster you lose your ability to think critically. It's true.
And so when you say let them, It's like allowing something without allowing it.

Speaker 2 It's recognizing that there is something that happened, or there is a person in your life that's doing something that's pissing you off, or annoying you, or stressing you out, or worrying you.

Speaker 2 But you have no control over that.

Speaker 2 And so, yes, react, but at some point, you got to go let them because it helps you recognize and accept the reality and detach from something

Speaker 2 happened and detach most importantly from what you can't control.

Speaker 1 So, what's the second part then? Let me

Speaker 2 let me

Speaker 2 choose

Speaker 2 what I'm going to do.

Speaker 2 And when you say let me, you do something crazy powerful. First of all, you take responsibility

Speaker 2 for how you're going to address this. And let's look at the word responsibility.
It's the ability to respond.

Speaker 2 And when you say let me,

Speaker 2 you are reminding yourself that in life, there are only three things, Lewis, you can control. Only three things.

Speaker 2 Number one, you can control what you think next.

Speaker 2 Number two, you can control what you do or you don't do next.

Speaker 2 And oftentimes doing nothing is way more powerful than doing something.

Speaker 2 And number three, you can control

Speaker 2 what you're going to do with the emotions that you feel.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 When you say let me,

Speaker 2 in any situation,

Speaker 2 you detach from the things you cannot control and you remind yourself that no matter what is happening around me or to me I always have power

Speaker 2 because through my thoughts and through my actions and through the processing of my emotion I can positively impact or change what's happening for the better

Speaker 2 And if you allow yourself to constantly get stressed out or waste your time

Speaker 2 by managing what you will never be able to control, you will never see the power that you have.

Speaker 2 And so this gets back to the question that you asked, which is what is the single biggest thing that is in everybody's way?

Speaker 2 And the single biggest thing that is in everybody's way is the power you unknowingly give to other people.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 there are four main ways that you're doing it.

Speaker 2 And it is blocking your ability to be happy. It is blocking your ability to make decisions that are aligned with what you want.

Speaker 2 It is blocking your ability to leverage your time for the things that you care about. It is keeping you from pursuing the things that you're capable of doing in your life.

Speaker 2 And it is

Speaker 2 also draining your time. And the four big ways that you've turned other people into a problem.
Number one, you allow them to stress you out.

Speaker 2 Number two, you're so concerned about what everybody else thinks.

Speaker 2 It is a massive obstacle in your way because you consider it before you do anything.

Speaker 2 Number three, you navigate your entire life based on other people's emotional reactions and you allow emotional immaturity in other people and in yourself to dominate how you move through your day.

Speaker 2 And number four, your habit of chronically looking over there and comparing yourself makes you feel like life is unfair and that other are against you or competing with you.

Speaker 2 And all four of those things are simply not true. And you can use the let them theory to remove all four of those obstacles.

Speaker 2 And when you no longer allow people to stress you out, you have more energy. When you allow people, you let them think negative thoughts about you.

Speaker 2 because you recognize you can't control what they think anyway.

Speaker 2 It frees you up to focus on what's within your control, which is what you think about yourself.

Speaker 2 And when you operate in a way, Lewis, that makes you proud of yourself, you authentically don't really care if people have a negative opinion.

Speaker 2 When it comes to emotional immaturity, so many of us are driven by guilt, or we're scared to disappoint people, or we don't want to let people down, or we think it's our job to make other people happy.

Speaker 2 And when you organize your life around managing another adult's feelings, you become the parent to another human being.

Speaker 2 And there's a much easier way. Let them.
Let them be disappointed. Let them be upset.

Speaker 2 Let them be sad that you're doing something that they wanted you to do, but you're not going to do it. Let them be an adult and let them deal with themselves.
And the fourth one is

Speaker 2 when you spend tons of time comparing yourself to other people. And look, comparison is normal.

Speaker 2 Comparing yourself to other people isn't the problem. It's what you're doing with it that is.

Speaker 2 And so using the let them theory, you got to let other people be successful.

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 2 right now what's happening is when you see somebody else succeeding or happy or they're pregnant or they're engaged or they're doing whatever, they're building some big brand and you tell yourself, oh my god, you know,

Speaker 2 they've already done what I wanted to do. I'm too late.
You know, because they've done it, now I can't do it. You actually are working against the laws of the world.

Speaker 2 Because success and happiness and joy and friendship and love, these are all things that are in limitless supply.

Speaker 2 And the truth about life is that you're not actually playing against other people. You're playing with them.

Speaker 2 And when you turn other people into a problem and you look at other people's success or happiness or the things that they've achieved or experienced in their lives as evidence that you won't have it, you're working against the natural order of things.

Speaker 2 Other people can't actually block your way.

Speaker 2 Only you can do that. And if you let people show you the way,

Speaker 2 if you let them inspire you, if you let them reveal the formula to success,

Speaker 2 Now you're learning from people instead of turning people into a problem that is blocking you from doing what you're capable of.

Speaker 2 And those are the four ways that you have turned other people into a problem

Speaker 2 and you have allowed other people and your desire to control them or to manage them or the sense that you have this responsibility to make everybody else happy.

Speaker 2 And you've forgotten about the one person whose job it is that you are supposed to be making happy, which is you.

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Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 What started at the prom with your father?

Speaker 1 Just two years ago? Yeah.

Speaker 1 When you were able to

Speaker 1 have this kind of awakening a couple years ago,

Speaker 1 how much of these things were you doing that were holding you back?

Speaker 1 Everything. Really? Everything.

Speaker 2 I didn't see this. See, it's sort of like you and I both have dyslexia.
I didn't discover that I had dyslexia and ADHD until I was 47. Right.

Speaker 2 Because my, and I found out the way most women do. My son was getting evaluated for school, and I'm like, you're like, oh, I think I have the same thing here.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Interesting.

Speaker 2 And if you don't know the problem,

Speaker 2 then you have no access

Speaker 2 to solving it.

Speaker 2 And for years, Lewis, I thought that the primary thing that I was struggling with was anxiety.

Speaker 2 Because when you have dyslexia or ADHD and it's not diagnosed or addressed, the thing that rises to the surface is anxiety.

Speaker 2 And anxiety wasn't my problem. Anxiety was a symptom.

Speaker 1 Why do you think you had anxiety then? Or why do you think anxiety was showing up for you in your life?

Speaker 2 Oh, well, it's very simple. Like if you're sitting in a classroom and your brain can't do what everybody else, you know, can do and you're falling behind.

Speaker 1 You'll feel anxious.

Speaker 2 Of course, because

Speaker 2 you're uncertain. And anxiety, in my mind, is just a situation where you feel like there's an unknown, right?

Speaker 2 And you add in this belief that you're not capable of figuring it out.

Speaker 2 And the problem is that when something feels overwhelming, or you don't know, or things feel a little out of control, we focus on that and then we start worrying versus focusing on the fact that you're actually capable of figuring something out.

Speaker 2 That's all that anxiety is. It's a separation with the power inside you.
And then, of course, your body has this alarm system.

Speaker 2 And when

Speaker 2 something

Speaker 2 is happening in the moment or it's about to happen and you get nervous because you're uncertain or you're afraid of how things are going to turn out or you're afraid that the teacher is going to call on you, right?

Speaker 2 The alarm system in your body goes off. And then you separate yourself from your power because you always have the ability to figure something out.

Speaker 2 And for somebody who starts to struggle chronically with anxiety, what ends up happening is that you start to, when you feel nervous in your body, which by the way, it is a mentally healthy response if you're a dyslexic kid in classroom and you don't know what the hell is going on to feel nervous.

Speaker 2 That's a sign that things are working well because the alarm is trying to tell you something's not right.

Speaker 2 And then we feel the alarm and we don't know what the issue is. So then we make a major mistake.

Speaker 2 Instead of dropping into the alarm, which is always in your body, we go upstairs to our heads, which is where self-doubt is.

Speaker 2 And then you start going, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, which only makes the alarm bigger. I didn't know any of this back then.

Speaker 2 So I, of course, went from a dyslexic and ADHD kid to somebody that develops anxiety because I'm sitting in a classroom thinking I'm an idiot.

Speaker 2 And you want to know the kid that works the hardest in school? The one who's struggling.

Speaker 2 Not the kids that are getting straight A's. It's easy for them.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Even if they're working hard.

Speaker 1 It's still easy to come on. Yes.

Speaker 2 It's the kid who isn't able to learn in that way and is terrified of being found out.

Speaker 2 Like you don't have to tell a kid that's struggling in school that like telling somebody to work harder is dumb because it's not an issue of willpower.

Speaker 2 It's an issue of I don't have the skills right now.

Speaker 2 And when you're in that situation where you can't. In fact, there's a doctor that was on our show two weeks ago that you got to have on.
His name is Dr. Stuart Avalon.

Speaker 2 And Lewis, he said this sentence. He's been at Mass General Brigham for 30 years.

Speaker 1 Incredible.

Speaker 2 Child psychiatrist. He says, people do well when they can.

Speaker 2 And if somebody's not doing well and they're exhibiting challenging behavior, it's because they're missing one of a few skills.

Speaker 2 And he's been able to identify it down into five skills.

Speaker 2 And one of the tragic things about his work with kids that he sees over and over is that it's not the kids' fault.

Speaker 2 And if you don't know what the skill is that you need, whether it's communicating or impulse control or it is

Speaker 2 the ability to learn in the way that your brain's being asked to learn, these are all things that can be addressed. If you don't know what the skill is that's missing, you will continue to struggle.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 And we live in a world where if you're struggling or you're presenting challenging behavior, we punish you.

Speaker 1 Or you tell you to work harder or whatever it might be.

Speaker 2 Or you punish yourself. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 And feel shame and guilt and things.

Speaker 2 And so the let them theory is the exact same thing because it is a skill

Speaker 2 to be able to identify what's in your control and what's not in your control.

Speaker 2 And it is a skill anybody can learn. And you need to learn it because human beings, at our core, we have a fundamental hardwired need for control.
It makes us feel safe.

Speaker 2 So if you really think about this, like you need to feel in control of your decisions, you need to feel in control of your environment you need to feel in control of what's going to happen in the future or at work today and we also try to make ourselves feel safe by what controlling the people around us

Speaker 2 and this is

Speaker 2 in all of us i have this need to be in control you have this need to be in control this is why the parent-child relationship is so irritating right

Speaker 2 because You're the parent or you're the adult child and you have a need to be in control of yourself, but your parent only feels safe if they're in control of you.

Speaker 2 And that sets up a problem for every relationship that you're in. Because if I can't control you, it makes me feel unsafe.
But if I try to control you, Lewis, then you're going to feel annoyed.

Speaker 2 And what happens in the body, and I write about this in the book, because the first thing you're going to learn when you learn this skill of identifying what's not in your control and removing it as an obstacle in your life.

Speaker 2 Because when you stop giving power to things that aren't in your control, guess what? You give back time, energy, power, confidence,

Speaker 2 peace, joy. You realize you do have agency and that that power isn't over there, it's in here.

Speaker 2 And you have the exact same thing.

Speaker 2 And when you start to tap into that for yourself, it's just liberating.

Speaker 2 And then you start to see the second thing that I write about in the book, which is that there are four ways you're screwing up your relationships because you're trying to control people.

Speaker 2 And any psychologist will tell you that

Speaker 2 when you try to control something that you can't control, it just creates stress and frustration for you. And it creates tension and misunderstanding and distance in your relationships.

Speaker 2 Because if you have a need to control, and I have a need to control, right?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I try to pressure you to do something, Lewis,

Speaker 2 your brain is wired not to feel motivated, but to actually resist the change I want you to make.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. Yes.
You don't want to do it. No.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 And so it was fascinating also to see that for 54 years, I was actually operating

Speaker 2 the opposite of human wiring when it came to relationships.

Speaker 1 On a scale of one to 10, in terms of a parent-child relationships that you had, or even marriage relationship,

Speaker 1 10 being the ultimate level of control, wanting to control either your kids or your partner. Where were you on that scale?

Speaker 2 I'd say that publicly, I was probably a five.

Speaker 1 Privately? Ten. Wow.
We all are.

Speaker 2 We all are.

Speaker 1 So, what does that look like then? Is it like not accepting your kids to be themselves, or they want to do something, and you say, no, you can't do that, or here's what you need to do?

Speaker 1 But you got to discipline kids too. Of course, you can't just be

Speaker 1 able to let them do do whatever they want. Let them eat whatever they want.
They can't stay up all night. No.
No, no.

Speaker 2 No. Because this is a book about adult relationships.

Speaker 2 And we make a huge distinction because when you're an adult, you are, and you have a child, or you're a caregiver or a coach.

Speaker 2 No, you are a, well, there are certain things you need to let them do.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 But there are certain guardrails that are your responsibility. For example, a child cannot regulate their own emotions.
Right.

Speaker 2 You have to, it's your responsibility to teach a child how to regulate their own emotions. And the problem is that no adults know how to do this.

Speaker 1 They haven't been taught it either.

Speaker 2 Correct, which is why another philosophy and rule in the Let Them Theory book is that from this point forward, go through life and see every adult as an eight-year-old in a big body.

Speaker 2 And when you do that, something fascinating happens. Instead of being scared of people who are challenging or narcissistic or passive or immature, you actually can let them

Speaker 1 be

Speaker 2 and you feel compassion.

Speaker 2 And you also realize it's not your job to make excuses for somebody who is immature. It's not your job to change somebody who has a narcissistic personality style.

Speaker 2 It's not your job to take away somebody's disappointment or sadness.

Speaker 2 You need to let them. And when you do it, it's the ultimate boundary because then you separate your emotions and energy from someone else.
And then you say the second part, which is let me.

Speaker 2 Let me double down on my values

Speaker 2 and let me see this person very clearly.

Speaker 2 Because if I see this person's immature behavior, And I visualize the eight-year-old version of them, what I realize is that this is a person who has just never taught the skill of understanding and managing their emotions in a responsible and healthy way.

Speaker 2 And I can't teach them that.

Speaker 1 But if someone is treating you poorly or disrespecting you or has a lack of manners and just decency in life,

Speaker 1 not saying they're stealing 100 grand from you, not saying they're cheating on you. It's honestly the same thing.
But just

Speaker 1 other things that are like, huh, that doesn't feel good. Yeah.

Speaker 1 How do you let them, but then also create a boundary with them communicate to them, hey, this doesn't work for me anymore. I'm going to let you do this,

Speaker 1 but also this doesn't work in this relationship for me. Correct.
How can we do that?

Speaker 1 He just explained it. That is not angry and mean towards them or reacting emotionally, but just creating a healthy, conscious communication.

Speaker 2 Okay, great. Excellent question.

Speaker 1 Because that sounds like part two, where you're letting me, you're taking your power back and you're saying, now I want to communicate. how you can treat me.
Yes. Like these behaviors don't work.

Speaker 1 Right. If you want to do that, I'm going to let you do it, but not with me.

Speaker 2 Bingo. Right.
See, here's the thing. Who is the power in a narcissistic relationship?

Speaker 1 I guess the narcissist, if the other person's allowing it to happen.

Speaker 2 Correct. But you're only allowing it if you see it happening and you make excuses for it and you stay.
Yes. So if you let them reveal who they are.
And so this is a very important point.

Speaker 2 You are not allowing people to abuse you.

Speaker 2 In fact, what the let them theory does is it helps you wake up,

Speaker 2 perhaps for the first time, and actually see somebody very clearly as they are

Speaker 2 and not make an excuse

Speaker 2 because people's behavior is the truth. People can say anything that they want, but if you watch their behavior,

Speaker 2 someone tells you exactly who they are and they tell you what their priorities are and where you fall in those priorities. So let them reveal who they are.

Speaker 2 And if you are in a situation with any human being

Speaker 2 and you let them be who they are and they reveal to you that they are emotionally abusive or narcissistic or they don't call back or they keep saying that they're going to stop drinking and they don't.

Speaker 2 Or they promise that they're not going to raise their voice, but they do.

Speaker 2 Let them.

Speaker 2 Because your power is not in trying to change them because you can never change another human being. Human beings only change when they feel like it and they are not going to change for you.

Speaker 2 People only change when they feel like changing for themselves.

Speaker 2 And so trying to make someone else change or wishing that they would change, that's not where your power is. Don't put your time and energy there.

Speaker 2 Let someone reveal who they are and then say the second part, which is let me. Let me remind myself that I always have power because I can leave any conversation.
I can leave any interview.

Speaker 2 I can leave any date. I can leave any relationship.
I can leave any dining room table.

Speaker 1 Any job.

Speaker 2 Any job. Anytime I choose.

Speaker 1 And so,

Speaker 2 you know, I also say this knowing the research. I used to work at domestic violence hotline.
And when I was a public defender, we had a tremendous amount of training in crisis intervention.

Speaker 2 And I know you've covered this topic a lot and you understand trauma and have written about it extensively. And I say this in abusive relationships.

Speaker 2 This is a life-changing tool for you to say let them. And here's why.

Speaker 2 On average, at least the research I saw last, it took a woman seven times of leaving to leave for good in a domestic.

Speaker 1 Here's why. I'll tell you why.

Speaker 2 The reason why is if you look at brain circuitry and you look at all that research that scientists have done on addiction, And there's this famous study. I'm going to get completely wrong.

Speaker 2 It's part of my brand to just like kind of miss some of the details. You get the gist of it.

Speaker 2 So they put these poor rats in two different changes cages and in one of the cages they give the rats like all the sugar that they want or heroin or i don't even know what they were giving these rats

Speaker 2 right and it's on tap

Speaker 2 and of course they're like tap tap tap but then they kind of get a little like tired of it in this cage they put the rats in with the same sugar or heroin or whatever but they gave it to them randomly

Speaker 2 So you would tap it once and get your hit, and then you go back and it's water.

Speaker 2 And then you hit it again, and then maybe it comes again.

Speaker 2 and then you hit it a couple more times and it's water and then you hit it again it's called intermittent rewards it is the exact same mechanism as pulling a slot machine

Speaker 2 like sometimes you win and then you got to pull it 20 through and then you win again and it's that lack of predictability which by the way is the exact same mechanism with social media

Speaker 2 because when you're scrolling You know, for those of us that have been caught doom scrolling, this is not your fault. The algorithm is designed this way.

Speaker 2 It's designed to feed you things that are like a dopamine hit, and then you get a bunch of boring crap.

Speaker 2 But have you ever noticed as you start to talk to yourself, I got to go to bed, like I really need to get.

Speaker 1 And then you hit it.

Speaker 2 And then you hit one thing, I'm like, okay, and then you're on for another, it's intermittent reward.

Speaker 2 And so, in the cycle of an emotionally, or physically, or sexually abusive relationship, what happens is the relationship cycle is one where it's calm

Speaker 2 and then the abuse and then the apology and then it's calm.

Speaker 2 And the fact that it's not always like it, negatively the whole time, makes you do what we all do when we're on social media. I know that I need to do something, but

Speaker 1 and there's a moment of like some goodness or something happens.

Speaker 2 And so you

Speaker 1 want that to happen all the time, but it's not that. Correct.

Speaker 2 And the world's leading experts, you've had Dr. Romani Diversala on a number of times here, leading expert in the world on narcissism.

Speaker 2 She has said that the single biggest

Speaker 2 problem in a narcissistic relationship, whether it's your mother or the person that you're dating or a brother or sister or friend, is the hope that they will change.

Speaker 1 Oh, gosh, that's so hard.

Speaker 1 They won't change. Well, they might on their own.

Speaker 2 Likelihood is not. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 I think that you can hold out the belief that people can change, and at the same time, you can can live in the reality of who they actually are right now.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 And that's the power of letting them. You're not letting them do anything to you.

Speaker 2 You're letting them reveal exactly who they are through their behavior and for the first time you are not explaining it away. And that is the biggest issue that people also face in dating.

Speaker 2 We're so terrified to be single. You know, and I get it.
Like I've been married a long time. I have two daughters that are, one is single, the other's in a relationship.

Speaker 2 And the obsession with not wanting to be the single friend.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Like, how awesome it is to have plans on the weekend. Like the fear that you have that you're not going to meet the one.

Speaker 2 And the problem is that we are so married to the fantasy that we chase the potential. And you don't see the reality of the person that you're actually with.

Speaker 2 And the explaining away of behavior is the single biggest reason why you'll waste years of your life or months of your life with the wrong person.

Speaker 2 Because you're up here going, well, if they'd only lose some more weight or they'd be more motivated or they didn't watch golf all weekend.

Speaker 2 They're treated me nicer, then maybe, no, this is exactly who this person is.

Speaker 1 Well, I once heard someone say that if you're not changing it, you're choosing it.

Speaker 1 If you're not changing the situation or changing your relationship within the situation or changing your environment, you're choosing that environment. You're choosing that relationship.

Speaker 1 You're choosing that job, whatever it might be.

Speaker 1 And you can speak up and you can communicate, hey, this is something that I would like to create within this relationship, within this career, within this job.

Speaker 1 And I'm not happy with my current situation or this is what's working for me, but this isn't working for me. How can we evolve this relationship? Yes.
So I think you should have the conversations.

Speaker 2 You have to. That's the let-me part.

Speaker 1 Don't just say, screw this person and I'm gone. No.
No. Communicating with courage, with consciousness of like, here's what I do appreciate about you.
Yes. Here's all the good that is happening.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. And here's some things that I would like to improve on.
Yes. Can we improve in this situation, in my relationship or my career or whatever it might be or a friendship?

Speaker 1 If not, okay, it's information.

Speaker 1 Maybe I'll stay as invested with you. Maybe I won't.
Correct. Maybe I'll stay in this job.
Maybe I'll look for a new job and try to find some other situation.

Speaker 1 But if you're not changing it, you're choosing it. Yes.

Speaker 1 And when you're choosing it, you got to accept it. If you don't accept it, you got to start having a conscious conversation with change.
Yes.

Speaker 2 That's exactly right, Lewis. And here's the cool part.
No human being is perfect.

Speaker 1 Of course not.

Speaker 2 And we can all learn skills.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 And so whose responsibility is it to create the relationship that you deserve? See, I think it's your responsibility.

Speaker 1 It's our responsibility.

Speaker 2 And the way that you do it is you allow someone, you let them be who they are.

Speaker 2 And then you come back to yourself.

Speaker 2 And anything that's annoying you or frustrating you or that you're griping to your friends about, whether it's work or it's a friendship or your parents or whatever that's the let me part yes

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Speaker 2 Let me either stop bitching about this because that's the only way that you know how you accept it. Accept them.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Right? Stop complaining.

Speaker 2 Or let me sit down and be the emotionally mature one

Speaker 2 and make the request. So Chris has done this with me.
So I'll play this out this way.

Speaker 2 So, you know, you're good friends with my husband, Chris, and you know Chris. He's like Mr.
Men's Retreat, Death Doola, Zen, amazing man.

Speaker 2 And I, you know, if you go into our bathroom, Lois, Chris's counter clean.

Speaker 1 Go to bath. See, you do.
No, I know, because this is my bathroom. I'm clean, you're organized.
And when Martha puts something on, I'm like, you have a whole other separate counter.

Speaker 1 We're not sharing a counter. We have two sinks for a reason.

Speaker 1 And yours is three times the size of mine for a reason. You don't have to put your blush on my side.
Yes. I like it clean.
Yes. You know what I mean? Yes.
Drives you crazy, doesn't it? Crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay, so it's bird. Mine is just like Martha's.

Speaker 1 It looks like the CBS aisle tipped over on top of it. And it's like, she can't even see what she has because there's so much stuff.
Yes.

Speaker 2 So it drives Chris bananas.

Speaker 1 he has learned to let me now no i let her on her side correct

Speaker 2 correct but when the brush comes onto your side which i do too because i walk over i'm talking i put it down i walk back right so here's the thing though if it really starts to annoy you it's not bad bad yeah you're not going to be able to control her right

Speaker 2 you are starting to get annoyed so now you know it is actually draining some energy. The power is not in controlling her.
It's in your response. So you go to Mark.
Chris comes to me me and says, Mel,

Speaker 2 I love you. Yes.
The real trigger for Chris is cardboard boxes. Cardboard boxes? Oh, yeah, because what happens is they show.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And then Chris's mister, slice them down, flat.

Speaker 1 Organize them, decide them, whatever.

Speaker 2 Stack them in the garage in a certain way. They got all stacked up.
He likes to put one in a box. And I don't know, like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 And he would ask me, when the boxes come and you empty them, please slice them.

Speaker 2 And I would do it some of the time.

Speaker 2 But most of the time, what I do is I just stack them next to the door to the brush.

Speaker 1 You let him do it. Well, we can stop right now.

Speaker 1 You're going to do it.

Speaker 2 I mean to come down at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but you know, you're tired of whatever you have.

Speaker 2 So Chris would come in and he'd see them and he has asked me multiple times.

Speaker 2 So, of course, it stresses him out and pisses him off and annoys him. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But what he did is he sat me down because there's a big difference between what you intend and the impact it has on another person.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if you scream at someone or scold them or shame them, you're not going to get a good response. Correct.
But if you sit down cautiously

Speaker 1 when things are calm,

Speaker 1 not in that moment, and just say, hey, in a loving way, I love you. I appreciate you.
I appreciate all the good that you do for us and our relationship. We have a beautiful home.

Speaker 1 We have three amazing children.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, now spit it out, Lewis.

Speaker 1 What could you wrong? Yeah, exactly. And there's this one thing that I would love to create an agreement with.
Yes. Can we create this agreement together? Yes.

Speaker 1 And what support would you need in order for us to have this agreement work?

Speaker 2 I said an assistant.

Speaker 1 No, I

Speaker 1 just let it.

Speaker 2 That's true, though. But what he said to me was this: he said, Every time I see those cardboard boxes there, it's like a giant middle finger to me.

Speaker 1 Like, you don't love me. You don't respect me.
You don't care about me. You don't appreciate me.

Speaker 2 Correct. You think I'm your maid.

Speaker 2 And I have asked about this.

Speaker 2 And when he explained it that way,

Speaker 2 what happened is it tapped into my intrinsic motivation

Speaker 2 because I value how he feels. Of course.

Speaker 2 And when he communicated that way and he let me know, now I am motivated to do it because I know why it matters.

Speaker 2 And this is

Speaker 2 really important. When you communicate something to someone that it matters to you and they don't do it, you have to let them.

Speaker 1 And here's why. Let them and then what?

Speaker 2 It depends on the issue.

Speaker 1 Because if he sits you down and says, this really matters to me,

Speaker 1 cardboard boxes. But it's more about feeling disrespectful or even.

Speaker 2 But if I repeatedly then ignore it. Then what? Well, Chris has to choose.

Speaker 1 Choose what?

Speaker 2 To either talk to me again or if it's a big enough issue, Lewis, is this the right relationship?

Speaker 1 Interesting.

Speaker 2 Do I want to be with somebody who I sit down and repeatedly share my feelings and my needs with, and then they do not do anything?

Speaker 1 Or they say they will, but then they don't.

Speaker 2 And the behavior shows that I don't matter.

Speaker 1 But also people could say, well, he could also just look at it and say, don't take it personally and just,

Speaker 1 who cares? Accept that this who you are. She's not going to do the boxes.
And just let it go. It doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 It's deeply personal.

Speaker 2 And this is why it's important.

Speaker 2 to understand where your control is because what's ultimately going to happen is if you have an issue with somebody in your life, whether it's your parents or your boss or whatever, and you've addressed it in a very mature and loving way and nothing has changed, it's likely not going to.

Speaker 2 And then it comes back to you. Let me choose.

Speaker 1 What to do next? Yes.

Speaker 2 What do I deserve?

Speaker 2 And if it's somebody who repeatedly, like let's take it to the context of dating, because this was an example that's kind of funny and relatable. Sure.

Speaker 2 But if you're in a relationship with somebody and and you want to take it to the next level and they don't want to put a label on it,

Speaker 2 is

Speaker 2 like, are those the table scraps you're going to take?

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 If they're sneaking out early in the morning like some stray cat,

Speaker 2 is that actually the, seriously? Is that the love you deserve?

Speaker 1 I mean, I get up early and go to the gym. I'm not sneaking after you.

Speaker 2 But you know what I'm saying? Sure. Because what we then do is we go up into our minds and we start explaining away the behavior.
Yeah, of course. But

Speaker 1 you get a little drip of dopamine every once in a while. You're like, oh, I wish I did that more frequently.

Speaker 2 Yes. And if only I can be closer to them.
If only I can spend more time with them. Maybe if I learn how to play golf.
Maybe if I, like, that now you're changing yourself.

Speaker 2 You're changing yourself because you refuse to let the person reveal who they are.

Speaker 1 Oh, man.

Speaker 2 And there are no mixed signals.

Speaker 2 You're either a priority or you're not.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 Period. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I think it's important that I recently heard some experts say, and I think it's a really important statistic to know, that 11%

Speaker 2 of

Speaker 2 people in long-term relationships have that sort of instant spark.

Speaker 2 89% were the slow burn.

Speaker 2 And that's also important to know.

Speaker 1 Interesting.

Speaker 2 Because over time,

Speaker 2 people reveal who they are too.

Speaker 2 And it's why people grow on you.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 And one of the other reasons why I love this theory so much, you know, you know, because we're all good friends, that Chris and I are about as opposite as they come in terms of energy and

Speaker 1 communication. Oh, calm.
Because you have a pulse.

Speaker 2 I mean, the guy's

Speaker 1 a death tool over crying out loud.

Speaker 2 He keeps my feet on the ground and I keep our life fun and exciting. Yes.

Speaker 1 The adventure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 The uncertainty, adventure.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But he's the ground and the soul and the foundation.

Speaker 1 It's interesting because when I, you know, I've I don't know how you guys stayed married. I don't know anyone in their 20s getting married in their 20s stays married in their 50s or beyond.

Speaker 1 Because if I got married in my 20s, I'd have been divorced easily once or twice.

Speaker 2 Early 20s, for sure, I would have been.

Speaker 1 I just had no emotional skills.

Speaker 1 And I think I would have...

Speaker 1 It would have just been chaos, I feel like, you know? And so I hadn't, I feel blessed and grateful.

Speaker 1 And I don't know how anyone who's been married 20 plus years in their 20s starting in their 20s makes it work and it's a freaking applaud because

Speaker 1 I feel like I needed those painful kind of five breakup experiences and like just challenging relationships to finally say oh I wasn't letting myself or letting them be who we need to be yeah and it was trying to like make something work that I wasn't accepting and they weren't accepting.

Speaker 1 And I'm not blaming these individuals. We both played parts in it.
But when I chose to be with Martha and chose to be committed with Martha,

Speaker 1 I internally said to myself and out loud to her, said, if I'm going to be with you committed, then I'm going to choose to fully accept all the parts of you.

Speaker 1 And that means I want to get to see all the parts of you to make sure I like them. So if I don't like them, I don't want to be with you.

Speaker 1 I don't care how inspiring you are, how famous you are, or if you make money or you look beautiful, like that doesn't matter to me anymore.

Speaker 1 I need to be willing to accept who you are and be okay with it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Or I shouldn't be with you. Correct.
And my only request is you accept who I am fully, knowing my lifestyle, knowing I interview lots of different people and I go speaking and women come on the show.

Speaker 1 And you need to know all these things about me.

Speaker 1 And I've got dreams and I'm going to be committed to my vision. I'm going to be getting up early to go to the gym.
Like you've got to accept these parts of me.

Speaker 2 Otherwise, it's not going to work. Well, you know what that is?

Speaker 1 Love. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Loving someone

Speaker 2 is letting them be themselves.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 2 And when I started, when I stumbled onto this,

Speaker 2 Chris and I have been through hell and back.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 he is my most favorite thing about life.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 there is something about let them

Speaker 2 that is a profound act of love.

Speaker 2 Because in my mind, when I think about love, I think love is two things. I think it's consideration,

Speaker 2 so having someone else in mind.

Speaker 2 Like literally, if you make a cup of coffee for somebody and you put in the oat milk, because that's what they like, that's an act of love because you have consideration.

Speaker 2 When I slice the cardboard box and flatten it, I have Chris in mind.

Speaker 2 And the second part of love for me is admiration, which is the ability to see something in someone else that you admire.

Speaker 2 And you asked, I don't like, how do you go the distance? I think a long-term successful relationship requires two things.

Speaker 2 It requires two people who want it to work.

Speaker 2 And that's an important thing.

Speaker 2 Because if you look at any relationship that breaks up, whether it's divorce or a breakup,

Speaker 2 there is a moment looking back. where at least one of the people didn't want it to work.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And the second component is that you're both willing to do the work to make it work it's almost like you're always going to be on a seesaw with somebody in a long-term relationship ups downs balance

Speaker 2 but neither one of you will get off the seesaw

Speaker 2 that's what it takes because if one of you gets off

Speaker 2 the whole thing breaks yeah and so that's why it's really important to learn how to let someone be who they are because I think it's a huge act of love. And one of the cool things about it for me,

Speaker 2 and it's not so much with Chris, but it's with other family members that have had very challenging issues or challenging personality styles, is that I've always made it my job to like make people happy and make sure nobody's disappointed,

Speaker 2 and then I get upset.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 I know that feelings.

Speaker 2 And when you let them be who they are,

Speaker 2 you're actually holding space

Speaker 1 for

Speaker 2 two things to be true.

Speaker 2 Because somebody can be deeply disappointed in you or something that you've done, and they can still love you.

Speaker 1 100%. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And a lot of us don't know that. But when you let someone be disappointed, and if you just take that example, because so many of us are motivated by guilt or we don't want to let people down,

Speaker 2 if you have a business partnership and they want you to come to some meeting or come give a speech and it just doesn't work and they're disappointed, isn't that a good thing?

Speaker 2 Doesn't that mean they want you there?

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 And we think we've done something wrong. No, you've actually done something great

Speaker 2 because you have a relationship where somebody wants you there. So let them be disappointed.
Sure.

Speaker 2 But then do the second part, let me remind myself of my values. And I don't bend over backwards just to make sure other people aren't disappointed.

Speaker 2 I just let them be disappointed and I remind myself that I need to act in a way and spend my time in a way that actually supports the things that are priorities for me.

Speaker 2 And And if I value, for example, family, and this is another very important thing because so many people are motivated by guilt.

Speaker 2 I used to be deeply motivated by making sure that, oh my God, if I felt guilty because I'm working too much or didn't see my parents or whatever, and then I'd change everything and then I'd still feel guilty because it wasn't quite enough.

Speaker 2 Don't ever do something

Speaker 2 because you feel guilty. When you change your plans and you go home to see your parents because you feel guilty, you just made your parents the villain.

Speaker 1 Because you'll resent it.

Speaker 2 Yes. And because you're making it a thing you have to do.
If you let them be disappointed and then you come back to yourself and you say, okay, well, let me drop into my values.

Speaker 2 And for me, my dad's 80 this year and I'm lucky I got 10 more holidays with him.

Speaker 2 And so I don't. make the time to see them because I want him to think I'm a good daughter.
I make the time to see him because it makes me know I'm a good dog

Speaker 2 because I value it.

Speaker 2 And the other thing that I love about let them, especially in challenging political times, is there are very good people in your life that have political opinions that you just cannot explain.

Speaker 2 And it's a deeply personal issue for everybody around what crosses a line.

Speaker 2 But there is space

Speaker 2 when you say let them

Speaker 2 for someone else to have a belief that you don't understand

Speaker 2 and for you to not be emotionally charged by it and then for you to come back to your power and say let me decide how much time and energy i pour into this relationship

Speaker 2 let me decide the role that family plays let me decide if i'm going to take the time to step in their shoes and try to understand how they have come to this belief.

Speaker 2 Because one of the other things that I've learned, and and especially in researching this book, is that our brains are very interesting because when you, when somebody has a different opinion than you, or they tell you something you don't want to hear, they've scanned your brain.

Speaker 2 This is research from Dr. Tali Sharik.
Your brain literally turns off the listening part

Speaker 2 when somebody is telling you something that you don't want to hear.

Speaker 2 And so By yelling at each other or arguing about things, or I don't understand how you could possibly,

Speaker 2 that doesn't do anything but create this silent distance between people.

Speaker 2 When you let people have their beliefs and then you remind yourself, let me decide what I value and let me decide what energy I'm going to pour into what and let me decide if I want to keep the space in this relationship open.

Speaker 2 Because the other thing that I was getting super wrong in relationships, Lewis, is,

Speaker 2 you know, I know that I have to push myself.

Speaker 2 Because I'm lazy and stubborn and doubtful and anxious like everybody else, right? I don't want to do the hard. So I'm like, five, I want to push myself.
So naturally, I push everybody else.

Speaker 2 And our brains are not only wired for control, but we move toward what's easy, which is why you sit on the couch instead of exercising, because it's easy.

Speaker 2 And we move away from what feels hard.

Speaker 2 And if you're a parent, you're stomping up the stairs because your kid's not motivated and you hear the Xbox going.

Speaker 2 Do you think studying is easy for that kid? No. That's why they're doing it.

Speaker 2 And when you come stomping up the stairs to open up the door and be like, are you studying?

Speaker 1 Yelling at them. Yeah, do you think that's motivating? No.

Speaker 2 You just create more resistance to the change that you want.

Speaker 2 Now, you can't make someone change, but I never said you couldn't influence them.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 2 So through letting somebody be who they are

Speaker 2 and then coming back to let me let me approach this in a different way.

Speaker 2 If I know I can't change this person and I know that the hardest working person is the person who's struggling, I mean, mean, people that are fat, they know they are.

Speaker 2 They know they are. People that are unhealthy, they know they are.

Speaker 2 And they're in tension with themselves. Of course, see, I choose to believe that everybody wants to be thriving.
I choose to believe that everybody wants to feel good about themselves.

Speaker 2 I choose to believe that, you know, if you're broke, I've been broke. I knew it.

Speaker 2 I knew I wanted to change my relationship with money. In fact, I needed your new book, Louis.
You know, where were you 14 years ago?

Speaker 2 People know

Speaker 2 when they're not living up to their potential.

Speaker 2 They are already actively in tension with themselves. They don't need pressure from you because it just creates more weight and shame around an issue they already wish they could change.

Speaker 1 So how do you influence someone who you know could use support in changing something that's really holding them back, whether that's their weight or their mindset or.

Speaker 2 Have you asked them how they feel about it?

Speaker 2 Or have you just made an assumption that you know? Like it's like, oh, thanks a lot. I should pay off my bills.
Never thought of that. Right.
Oh, I should eat healthier. Oh, thanks.

Speaker 2 You know, Einstein. Yeah.
Didn't occur to me that I should exercise.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 2 So you feel like, f you.

Speaker 1 A warm dinner, a full table, a peace of mind for every family. That's the holiday we all wish for.

Speaker 1 The Feeding America Network helps make it possible, not just for one family, but for communities everywhere. Because when we act together, hope grows.
Give now and your impact may be doubled.

Speaker 1 Visit feedingamerica.org/slash holiday.

Speaker 1 The School of Greatness is sponsored by Capital One.

Speaker 1 Nowadays, most people subscribe to everything, music, TV, even dog food, and it rocks until you have to manage it all, which is where Capital One comes in.

Speaker 1 capital one credit card holders can easily track block or cancel reoccurring charges right from the capital one mobile app at no additional cost with one sign in you can manage all your subscriptions all in one place learn more at capital one.com slash subscriptions terms and conditions apply so here's how you do it and this comes from you know one of our favorite people dr k the healthy gamer and i got to get you out of here in five minutes okay no problems but this is important this is a really good good technique So first things first, you just follow this ABC method.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 A is

Speaker 2 you apologize.

Speaker 2 You apologize for pressuring and judging and assuming.

Speaker 2 And I like to have these conversations, by the way, in the car because there's no drinking.

Speaker 2 And there's something about I guess the word is forward ambulation as the car is moving that creates more open-mindedness.

Speaker 2 Plus, you're not looking at each other, yeah, or walking or moving or something, and you're trapped, you know, because you're in the car.

Speaker 1 You can't get away in a car, you have to.

Speaker 2 And so, you apologize for being judgy and assuming and a know-it-all. And

Speaker 2 then you're going to ask some open-ended questions.

Speaker 2 I haven't even asked you how you feel about your health.

Speaker 2 And they might say, nothing. I'm fine.

Speaker 2 What makes you like fine about it?

Speaker 2 And here's the most important question.

Speaker 2 Is there anything that you want to do about it?

Speaker 2 And Dr. K says it doesn't even matter what their answers are because what you're doing is you're removing outside pressure.

Speaker 1 Something you want to do, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yes, and you're actually putting your arm around them.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 when that tension rises up

Speaker 2 inside you, like I've known in my life when I drink too much. I've known when I've been a walking red flag.
I've known when I've been struggling. I've known when I'm in the wrong job.

Speaker 2 I've known when I'm not taking care of myself.

Speaker 2 And I'm in tension with myself. Like nobody's actually stuck.

Speaker 2 In tension. Yeah, with myself.
Oh, I love it. In tension.
Not intention. Yeah, like in like frustration and friction.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And nobody's actually stuck. People who are stuck have woken up a little bit and they're like, I'm not happy where I am, but you're not quite sure what to do about it or worse,

Speaker 2 you don't have hope that it's going to work.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 And so when you say, what would you like to do about it?

Speaker 2 You've now just exposed the gap between what they actually

Speaker 2 want and what they're doing. Yep.

Speaker 2 And you're awakening intrinsic motivation.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 So then you go to B, back off.

Speaker 2 That's it. Back off.

Speaker 1 Don't try to coach them. Don't tell them what to do.

Speaker 1 Don't try to control them don't try to back off you should do this and you should do that you better wait three six months just back off just listen and they'll say okay yeah great

Speaker 2 and if you screw up again apologize again open-ended questions again

Speaker 2 you thought about what you might want to do about this if anything at all

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 then

Speaker 2 The third part is C, which is you got to celebrate any small thing you see without being passive or aggressive. Oh, see, it wasn't that bad.

Speaker 1 You didn't eat that pot today. Good job.
There you go.

Speaker 2 And here's the thing that none of us do. You got to model the behavior change.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And you cannot expect someone to stop drinking while you're pouring yourself a glass of wine. No.
You can't expect someone else to motivate and go for a walk every morning when you're not.

Speaker 2 And you also have to make it look fun and easy. And I want you to give it three to six months.
And here's why.

Speaker 2 We all have the need to feel in control.

Speaker 2 They have to have enough space from you for it to feel like their idea.

Speaker 1 That's true.

Speaker 2 So I love this example where if you think about being at work and, you know, I'm like one of those people that used to eat the sandwich, work through work, like, you know, eat through my lunch break, like shoving your sandwich in my mouth.

Speaker 2 And you see somebody get up and go for a walk.

Speaker 1 Work, work, work, work, work.

Speaker 2 And then they come back and they're super refreshed.

Speaker 2 And the next day, work, work, work, work, work. And they go for a walk.

Speaker 2 After a couple of weeks, One of these days you're going to look outside and you're always going to think, you know, I should go for a walk.

Speaker 2 You don't credit them.

Speaker 2 You think it was your idea.

Speaker 2 But that was the influence of your colleague who made something look easy and fun.

Speaker 2 This is why we buy so much dumb stuff online because people are making it look easy and fun.

Speaker 2 That's the power of your influence.

Speaker 2 And when you let them be who they are and you let them change on their own timeline and you learn to love them as they are,

Speaker 2 then you've just created the space for positive change to happen.

Speaker 2 And what I also love about this is that when you do it this way and you let them,

Speaker 2 you're also communicating, I believe you can.

Speaker 2 When you micromanage pressure and protect other people

Speaker 2 from

Speaker 2 the greatest teacher in the world, which is life,

Speaker 2 then you're actually saying, I don't believe you're strong enough to face this.

Speaker 1 Wow. Isn't that cool? Did you feel like you used to micromanage a lot of people?

Speaker 2 Everybody. Really? Well, of course, because I'm a control freak.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, we couch it as worry and love and thinking we know best.

Speaker 2 And that's a wonderful thing, Lewis, to want more for the people you love. Yes.
It's a wonderful thing to see the potential of a friend of yours.

Speaker 2 It's a wonderful thing to see that if your brother would stop drinking, his life would get better. It's a wonderful thing to want your girlfriend to stop dating these losers.

Speaker 2 Wanting a better life for somebody else is a beautiful thing.

Speaker 2 But we've been going about it the wrong way.

Speaker 2 We've been pressuring, worrying, judging, fixing, controlling.

Speaker 2 And the truth is, the more you let people be who they are, the better your relationships get.

Speaker 2 And the more you let people live their lives, the better your life gets. And the more you learn to see who people are.

Speaker 2 The more you get to choose how much time and energy you pour into what relationships and which ones you don't. This doesn't make you posed off.

Speaker 2 It actually makes you more connected and more compassionate and more loving and more supportive.

Speaker 2 And for me as a mom and even as a boss, it's made me realize the power in truly operating in a way where I'm clear when I'm especially at work about what the outcome is. But then I have to let people

Speaker 2 do the job

Speaker 2 because that gives them control over their creativity and expression.

Speaker 2 And with my kids,

Speaker 2 learning how to let them live their lives and let them make mistakes and let them face the consequences of the decisions, it is the single most powerful thing I could do because I'm saying to them, I believe in you and I believe in your ability to figure this out and know that the second you need me, I'm there.

Speaker 2 Because I'm always standing on the side cheering for you. I'm not on the field playing.
I'm standing on the side cheering for you because I believe you can win this game.

Speaker 1 There's a problem every time you come on, Mel. I ask one question, it goes for an hour, and I, you know, it feels like five minutes, which is a good thing.

Speaker 1 There's two things I want people to do right now.

Speaker 1 If you're listening on audio, I want you to share this with a friend and ask them the biggest takeaway they gained from this conversation because there are so many. I've got pages of notes already.

Speaker 1 If you're watching on YouTube or anywhere online, I want you to leave a comment of the biggest takeaway so far.

Speaker 1 What's yours?

Speaker 1 Well, I'm going through it in the last week with

Speaker 1 trying to control things with people.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 so it's all coming at the perfect timing to remind me to,

Speaker 1 and I think this ABC is actually something that I can get a lot better at, which is apologizing for either pressure or the judging. and start asking questions and then kind of let people be.

Speaker 1 And it's all been kind of happening in the last week where I'm like, gosh, if they just did this thing that I've been wanting them to change for the last 10, 20 years, life could be so much easier, so much better, so much this, so much, so much this.

Speaker 1 And it's all coming at the perfect timing because I'm just like,

Speaker 1 they're human beings, they're adults, they're going to figure out their life on their own.

Speaker 1 And what you said is like, the best thing you can do is keep modeling the behavior that you feel proud of. for your values.
These are the values that I want to create for me.

Speaker 1 So I've got to live up to my values consistently. Not perfectly, but consistently, right? And I'm going to have off days or whatever.

Speaker 1 And keep encouraging and saying, hey, is there anything I can do to support you on your goals? What are your goals? Oh, that's interesting. And then not try to coach them.

Speaker 1 You know, and for me, I think I've tried to like, okay, well, let's do this. Let's create a game plan.
And here's what we can do. And I'll hold you accountable, which feels like loving.

Speaker 1 And maybe you do need, if they say, I need accountability, cool, then do that. Correct.
But I think what you said is like, okay, just

Speaker 1 put the question out there to them and say, that's interesting. What would you want to do about that, if anything? Yeah.
Okay, cool. I'm cheering you on.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And if you need anything from me in the future, let me know.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
How might I support you if that's what you want to do?

Speaker 1 That's it. And not try to

Speaker 1 force them to change. You know, so I think that's a big, that's what's speaking to me now.
I mean, I go back in my notes from the

Speaker 1 first part.

Speaker 1 I think the distinction between let them and let me, you know, because I think of it as like,

Speaker 1 that's what I really wanted to ask you about. If you let people walk all over you, let's say, or steal from you, or cheat on you, or treat you poorly.
Right.

Speaker 1 Should we allow that to happen? But I think the second part is letting me, it's like, don't take it that personally, or maybe take it personally for you. Don't take it very personally.

Speaker 1 Then choose: okay, how do you want this relationship to change?

Speaker 2 Yeah, like what, what, what is the love you deserve? What is the friendship you deserve? Exactly. And, like, because the thing is, is that if somebody's cheating on you, it's already happening.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 And if you're getting walked all over or taken advantage of even at work, like you get the crappy shift every weekend.

Speaker 1 If you're not communicating what you want consciously, not yelling and reacting and saying, I never get what I want. And you're acting like a child.

Speaker 1 But if you're not consciously stepping up and saying, hey, listen, I've been here for a while and I'm just like exhausted. I just need more space and more time.

Speaker 1 I need a different position, whatever it might be. So you've got to take responsibility and step into your power when you want to communicate a change.

Speaker 2 Yes. And the mistake we make is we actually think we don't have power in that situation.
You're wrong.

Speaker 2 And, you know, it's interesting because that is the single kind of biggest pushback on the lethan theory, which is, am I just letting people walk all over me? No, you're doing that right now.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because you're making excuses for it. Right.

Speaker 2 And you think that the way to get somebody to stop walking all over you is to try to change them? No. The way you get somebody to stop walking all over you.

Speaker 2 is to walk out the door and not be present for it.

Speaker 1 Exactly. They're telling me you got to leave here in a couple minutes, so I'm going to ask you one final question.

Speaker 1 The second part of this, hey, Vance, if you want to take photos while we ask this final question, just to get them going,

Speaker 1 I want you to leave a comment. If you're watching on YouTube, I want you to share this with a friend if you're listening and share your biggest takeaway.

Speaker 1 And the second thing I want you to do is to go to letthem.com and buy a few copies of this book because I'm calling it now.

Speaker 1 This will be the biggest book of the year, 2025, and probably one of the biggest books of the decade.

Speaker 1 So if you don't have this book, if you haven't ordered it yet, get a copy for yourself, get a copy for someone else that you care about, because there are two simple words that will change how you think about your entire life, and it is let them.

Speaker 1 Very excited about this.

Speaker 1 I want people to get as many copies as they can because this is going to be everywhere.

Speaker 2 It's going to be everywhere. And everyone's going to be saying it about you.
Like my family uses this more with me than I use it with anybody.

Speaker 1 Sure, sure.

Speaker 2 And it brings us closer.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 I mean, again, we can go on another hours here.

Speaker 1 If you guys want more, if you want us to, if you want to ask two questions next time and you want Mel to come back on to expand on this, let me know in the comments as well.

Speaker 1 We'll have Mel come back on later this year. One final question.

Speaker 1 I asked you

Speaker 1 the first question, which was, you hear the pain of the world on the biggest thing that holds them back. I feel like we got to a part of the answer there, and there could be expanded.

Speaker 2 You're controlling the wrong things.

Speaker 1 You're controlling what? You're trying to control things that you can't control. Exactly.
You're trying to control things you can't control.

Speaker 1 I'm curious in your life, everything is taking off right now

Speaker 1 and the biggest it's ever been. And you've had different moments of big moments.
You've had massive books. You've had things go viral.
You've seen growth in certain seasons of life.

Speaker 1 But this is a whole nother trajectory.

Speaker 2 It's completely different.

Speaker 1 With everything going amazing and going bigger than you probably ever imagined right now, what is the biggest challenge holding you back?

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 2 feel more present

Speaker 1 than I ever have.

Speaker 1 You feel like it, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I

Speaker 2 don't feel any challenge in my life right now

Speaker 2 because I do feel that what is happening, especially with the let them theory,

Speaker 2 I think this is my legacy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's beautiful. I do.
And

Speaker 2 I just want to be present because I know that whatever it is that's happening in the world in this moment, I feel called to share this.

Speaker 2 And I spent so much of my life either feeling anxious or being a walking red flag because I just didn't know how to break out of the patterns. that I was in and I was controlling the wrong things

Speaker 2 that I don't remember a lot and I wasn't present for a lot of my life.

Speaker 2 And so I think the biggest challenge is being

Speaker 2 present in this moment

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 really

Speaker 2 keeping my feet on the ground as the airplane that I'm on is moving 500 miles an hour.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, I one of my deepest values is family.

Speaker 2 And so I want to make sure

Speaker 2 that as I am present

Speaker 1 for

Speaker 2 what is happening right now and the interest in this tool, and one of the reasons why it works, also, Lewis, is because it's just a modern tool that has deep roots in Stoicism and Buddhism and detachment theory.

Speaker 2 So, it is supported by ancient wisdom and the best research around psychology and human behavior, and it just applies it. And so, I feel

Speaker 1 that I'm not alone,

Speaker 2 you know?

Speaker 2 And I'm grateful for your support. Of course.
And

Speaker 2 I think it's just time.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's beautiful.
You deserve it. Thank you.
You've worked very hard for a long time.

Speaker 1 And I know I've seen you at different stages and seasons of life and your personal relationships and business highs and lows and all these different things. Huts and lows.

Speaker 1 And so you really deserve to enjoy every second of this season, you know, whether it's months or years of this chapter of this book and this kind of message that you're sharing yeah and uh so i hope i'm going to reach out and remind you to stay present because it's going to be a wild ride already enjoy the ride though i'm excited every make sure everyone gets the book the let them theory by mal robbinsletthem.com mal robbins on social media your podcast we'll have it all linked up check it out appreciate you love you mal congrats and everything

Speaker 1 and uh we'll we'll talk to you soon thank you absolutely appreciate it thank you so much for listening to this episode if you enjoyed this and if you found value, make sure to share this with one friend.

Speaker 1 Just copy and paste the link and text a friend where you feel would be truly inspired by this episode as well.

Speaker 1 And also, make sure to click the follow button on Apple or Spotify, wherever you're listening to this episode, because we have a massive episode coming up next that I do not want you to miss.

Speaker 1 So make sure to follow this and be on the lookout for the next episode coming with some massive content and guests. Also, I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy.

Speaker 1 And if you are looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy.

Speaker 1 I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up.

Speaker 1 Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the school of greatness.

Speaker 1 I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

Speaker 1 Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links.

Speaker 1 And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker 1 Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.

Speaker 1 I really love hearing feedback from you, and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.

Speaker 1 I want to remind you: if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something

Speaker 1 great.

Speaker 2 Hey, it's Parker Posey. How did I get here? I love improvisation when it comes to acting, but when it comes to a real-life plan, I stick to a script.
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