How To Turn Self-Doubt Into Your Superpower - The Mindset of Champions

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Speaker 4 The thing I love the most about you is that you really care about other human beings.

Speaker 4 Your heart is so big, even though you've been known for this focused mentality that is just almost psycho in some ways, but you care deeply about human beings.

Speaker 4 And I think that's why so many people love you as well. So I want to acknowledge you for your kindness and your generosity towards humanity.

Speaker 1 My first question for you is: I'm curious about

Speaker 4 who was your greatest teacher growing up? Because you had an interesting childhood being in Italy for a while, coming back to Philadelphia, I think it was.

Speaker 4 Who was the greatest teacher for you in those early days? It was funny. I had a lot of them.
My parents were great.

Speaker 4 Growing up, they instilled in me the importance of imagination, of curiosity.

Speaker 4 understanding that, okay, if you want to accomplish something, I'm not just going to sit here and say, yes, you can do whatever you want. Yes, Yes, you can,

Speaker 4 but you have to also put in the work to get there, right? So they taught me that at a really early age, man.

Speaker 4 And when you grow up as a kid thinking that the world is your oyster, all things are possible if you put in the work to do it, you know, you grow up having that fundamental belief. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Who was more influential for you, your father or mother?

Speaker 4 Both were influential at different points. Yeah.
Right. My

Speaker 4 mom was there on a daily basis.

Speaker 4 My father was really influential at a really critical time where I had a summer where I played basketball when I was like 10 or 11 years old in a very prominent summer league in Philadelphia called the Sunny Hill League where my father played, my uncle played, and they were like all-time greats.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And Will Chamberlain played in the league, you know, Earl of Promon Row played in the league. And here I come playing and I don't score one point the entire summer.
Really? Not one. How old were you?

Speaker 4 11, 10, 11. You're playing against other 10, 11 year olds? You didn't score once.
Not one. Were you in the game? I was in the game.
How did you not score? Because I was terrible. Really? Yeah.

Speaker 4 That happened. 10, 11 years old.
You were that terrible. Awful.
I mean, you know, and I had these big knee pads on because I was growing really fast. I have socks all the way up here.

Speaker 4 And I had like the pod top skinny,

Speaker 4 like skinny as.

Speaker 4 And I scored not a free throw, not nothing, not a lucky shot, not a breakaway layup, zero points. And I remember crying about it and being upset about it.

Speaker 4 And my father just gave me a hug and said, listen, whether you score zero or score 60, I'm going to love you no matter what. Wow.
Now, that is the most important thing that you can say to a child.

Speaker 4 Because from there, I was like, Okay, it gives me all the confidence in the world to fail. I have the security there.
But with that, I'm scoring 60. Let's go, right, right.
Right.

Speaker 4 And from there, I just went to work and I just stayed with it. I kept practicing, kept practicing, kept practicing.

Speaker 4 Is that when you think the mentality of hard work started to come in for you at that age when you failed so miserably, I guess, that summer?

Speaker 4 I think that's when the idea of understanding a long-term view became important because I wasn't going to catch these kids in a week. I wasn't going to catch them in a year, right?

Speaker 4 So that's when I sat down and said, okay, this is going to take some thought, right? What do I want to work on first? All right, shooting. All right.
Let's knock this out. Let's focus on this.

Speaker 4 Half a year, six months, do nothing but shoot.

Speaker 4 After that, all right, creating your own shot. Then you focus it.
So you start, I started creating a menu of things. When I came back the next summer, I was a little bit better.
Right.

Speaker 4 A menu being like, I've got my jump shot from 15. I've got my.
Yeah, I got my jump shot from 15. I got my three-point shot.
Like just open shots, not miss open shots, right?

Speaker 4 Be able to shoot it with speed because those kids are so much more athletic.

Speaker 4 And then the next summer I came back, it was a little better. And the summer came back, next summer, I was a little better.
I scored. It wasn't much, but I scored.
Missed 12, 13. 12, 13.

Speaker 4 Then 14 came around, back half of 13, 14 years old. And then I was just killing everyone.
And it happened in two years.

Speaker 4 And I wasn't expecting it to happen in two years, but it did because what I had to do was work on the basics and the fundamentals. Well, they relied on their athleticism and their natural ability.

Speaker 4 And because I stick to the fundamentals, it just caught up to them. And then my body, you know, my knees stopped hurting.
I grew into my frame. And

Speaker 4 then your athleticism, once you have the fundamentals,

Speaker 4 the hard work, the mindset, and you tack on the athleticism,

Speaker 4 then it was game over. What was your routine and ritual like after every game? Would you watch almost every game over or certain games? All of them.
Every game you watch. Every game over.

Speaker 4 The whole game back? The whole game. No way.
Yeah. So it started with me when I was a

Speaker 4 when Phil Jackson's his first year here with the Lakers. One of assistant coaches, his name was Tex Winner, and I call him Yoda.
I mean, he was like 82 when he got here. Wow.

Speaker 4 And he was responsible for teaching me the triangle offense. How old were you then? I was 21.
So three years, four years in the league? Yeah, so about my fourth year in the league.

Speaker 4 And so I go up to his room, and this is when there were no iPads or anything like that, right? So when you're on the road,

Speaker 4 yeah, you have to call down to the front desk and have to bring up the TV with the whole, you know, the rolly thing and the VHS and the cassette tape, you pop it in.

Speaker 1 And I thought we were going to watch what we call touches.

Speaker 4 So watch all your touches when you have the ball, all the decisions you make, good ones and bad. No, we're watching the start of the game

Speaker 4 to the end of the game. And

Speaker 4 not like the TV feed. We're watching the in arena feed the layup line the timeouts oh my gosh yeah rewinding stopping fast forward rewinding slow motion every little thing every game of that season

Speaker 4 with the 82 year old yoda oh my gosh who is as brutally honest as you can get

Speaker 4 what did that teach you that season no it taught me to look at detail

Speaker 4 right look at things things at their smallest right look at body language you know um

Speaker 4 look at the energy between players our team and the other team wow right look at the tactics you know look at the overall strategy and to look at how tactically things are manifesting themselves and because i watched so much film then it gave me the ability to see game in real time as if i was watching film wow or i can see

Speaker 4 because a lot of times the game starts moving really fast but if you train yourself to watch hours and hours of film the game's not moving that fast anymore.

Speaker 4 You can really recognize who's doing what and why. Then you can position guys in the right places in real time.

Speaker 4 Seeing it before it happens. Yeah.
We, you know, in football, we'd watch it once a week, game film, but not, you know, after every game. It was only one game a week.

Speaker 4 You got like three a week sometimes. Yeah.
Yeah. You got to, you got to go.
And I know, and I know Tom Brady is obsessive over game film as well.

Speaker 4 I mean, watching his show that came out, Tom or the time was all about him just in there studying. Even months after the game, he's studying to prepare, right? It's just like he's a stop.

Speaker 4 And that's, that's one of the keys, you think. It's like, if you're not watching film, whether it be as a speaker on stage or a performer and a musician, if you're not watching yourself back.

Speaker 4 You've got to learn, man. I mean, Beyonce's the same thing.
Really? After a performance,

Speaker 4 she's immediately on her laptop re-watching the performance. No way.
Yes, seeing how to do things better. What could we have done differently? Right? I mean, it's just,

Speaker 4 it's an obsessiveness that comes along with it. You want things to be as perfect as they can be.
Understanding that nothing is ever perfect.

Speaker 4 But the challenge is try to get them as perfect as they can be. And what can you do? It's in your control.
So control what you can. I can watch film all day long.
It's going to help me get better.

Speaker 4 Yes, yes. Now, did you have your teammates also follow on this obsessiveness that you had as well? Or did you just encourage them? Or what was the...
No, you can't push somebody to do that, right?

Speaker 4 But what you can do is is alter behavior and also change the vernacular of how they speak about the game so on team buses team planes in a locker room after practice i would look at the film i'd pull pal lamar d fish pull them aside and say let's look at this right we probably should have done this that and the other so you'll show them the game film a little bit here and there then you speak to them in in executional terms.

Speaker 4 It's never, come on, guys, we can do better. Come on, guys, we can do better.
That's rah-rah stuff, right? A leader must give very tactical,

Speaker 4 you know, things that we can do, adjustments. Okay, the defense is doing this, that, and the other.
That means we should probably do this, this, this, that, and the other.

Speaker 4 By midway through the season, through that behavior, you start seeing them communicating the same way back to you,

Speaker 4 right? And it's like, okay, Cole, they're doing this, that, and the other to you. Maybe we should do this, and the other.
Like, okay, yeah, awesome, great, let's do it. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 What about

Speaker 4 season 16, 17, 18? Are you still watching every game film as obsessively as the first 10 years ago? Not now, no. Well, when I was playing.

Speaker 4 When you were playing, yeah, so when I was playing, what I would do is

Speaker 4 study the film, but study our younger players

Speaker 4 and see what areas do they need to develop in and how can I help them develop. I mean, that was the big challenge as you move from, you know,

Speaker 4 being the single dominant player to understanding, okay, I have to help these other guys. How do I lift everyone else up? It's tough.

Speaker 4 I mean, you were so dominant your whole career, one of the greatest of all time. Was there a weakness that you had?

Speaker 4 Or did you, because obviously you're always trying to master your weaknesses so they became strengths.

Speaker 4 But at the end or towards the end, did you ever feel like, gosh, I still haven't mastered this one part of the game? The challenge for me was always compassion and empathy.

Speaker 4 Because you're like, guys, let's go. Get results.
Shut up. Don't complain, right? I don't want to hear your whining.
I don't want to hear it. No excuses.
Don't tell me how rough the water is.

Speaker 4 Just bring the boat in.

Speaker 4 I don't want to hear it.

Speaker 4 And it's

Speaker 4 understanding, like, okay, these guys have lives

Speaker 4 outside of here. They have other things happening.
They have other things happening to them that may be affecting the way that they're practicing or the way that they're performing.

Speaker 4 And it was hard for me to understand that because nothing bothered me.

Speaker 4 Anything personal

Speaker 4 never phased me when I'm compartmentalized it. Very well.
So I couldn't understand how my teammates couldn't do that either until I, you know, so I had to really work on that aspect of it.

Speaker 4 That's hard.

Speaker 4 Did you feel like you never really had the compassion you wish you would have had? Like until the last maybe couple years? Yeah, so I think about 09, things started changing for me.

Speaker 4 I started really making a conscious effort to better understand. And that doesn't mean

Speaker 4 you have compassion and empathy, so you go softer.

Speaker 4 It's more like

Speaker 4 you put yourself to the side and you put yourself in their shoes and understand what they're

Speaker 4 And then you have to make certain decisions: okay, what buttons do I need to push for this player to get them to the next level?

Speaker 4 So it's never, it's not sit around and all, it's all happy-go-lucky type of thing. Your leader, your job is to get the best out of them,

Speaker 4 even if they may not like it at that time. Yeah, wow.

Speaker 4 What are you most proud of from your 20 seasons?

Speaker 4 Honestly, it was

Speaker 4 sounds

Speaker 4 may sound a little shallow, but I got to say, beating the Celtics in game seven.

Speaker 4 That's what I'm most proud of because

Speaker 4 it was the hardest.

Speaker 4 You were playing with Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce,

Speaker 4 Kevin Garnett,

Speaker 4 Ray Allen.

Speaker 4 You know, it was myself, Powell, and players that other teams didn't want.

Speaker 4 And, you know, how did we figure out as a group what to do?

Speaker 4 And the reason why I love that series so much is that we went down three games to two against Boston. And now you got two games coming home.

Speaker 4 I remember sitting in the locker room and they beat the crap out of us to that game. So we're sitting in the locker room and it's really, really quiet.
I'm sitting there looking around

Speaker 4 and we just lost to Celtics in 08. So this is like revenge, right? And they're kicking our butt again, right? So I sit around and I just started laughing.

Speaker 4 I started laughing. And then I remember Derrick Fisher looked at me like, and Lamar looked at me and goes,

Speaker 4 what is funny? I said, dude, they beat the crap out of us. They just beat the crap out of us.
And said, I'm missing the part where that's funny.

Speaker 4 I said, man, listen, if you start this season and they say, you know, all you have to do is win two games at home and you're an NBA champ, would you take that?

Speaker 4 Yeah. They're like, right.

Speaker 4 That's all we got to do. Yeah.
Go home,

Speaker 4 win two. We're NBA champions.
All you got to do is win two games in a row. That's it.
We'll take care of the first game. And I promise you, they're not winning game seven on our home floor.

Speaker 4 It's not happening. So we all just laughed about it.
And then we went out and we figured it out. But that game seven was, we're down 15 points in the fourth quarter, right?

Speaker 4 And that's when you have to collectively look at each other and say, you know, the spirit of your team must be good.

Speaker 4 Because at that moment is when teams fracture, if the energy amongst each other isn't there, that trust isn't there, you're done.

Speaker 4 And we were able to collectively dig deep together and say, all right, we're going to figure this thing out. Wow.
And And I wasn't playing well. I wasn't shooting the ball well at all.

Speaker 4 And so my teammates picked you up and they delivered. Yes.
Wow. What do you think the biggest challenge is for most athletes after they retire? I think it's the fear of starting anew.

Speaker 4 And that was certainly present for me as well. Really? Yeah.
Like identity, you mean? Well, it's starting from scratch, right? Because when you...

Speaker 4 play for 20 years, I played for 20 years, you reach a certain level. You're like, okay, wait a minute.
I have to start again at the base of a mountain and try to climb the top of this mountain.

Speaker 4 First of all, what mountain am I climbing? I don't even know what the am I going to be doing.

Speaker 4 It's very, it's very scary. It's very scary.
Even for you. Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely. And the thing that helped me actually was hurting my Achilles because that forced me to sit there and say, okay,

Speaker 4 the day could be today

Speaker 4 that your career is over.

Speaker 1 At any time, when you were playing, you mean, yeah.

Speaker 4 Now what do you do? You have these ideas about doing something with your life after basketball. But what if today is the day that you, that's it, now what do you do?

Speaker 4 So I had all this time sitting there with my Achilles injury and contemplating and thinking. And I said, I better get to work.

Speaker 4 Wow. That was that.
What was the vision for you afterwards then? Was it to do what you're doing now? Or did you have other ideas? Or what's the vision for you? I struggled with it at first.

Speaker 4 Because the first question I asked, which is the wrong question, is what's the biggest industry I can get into?

Speaker 4 Was it more money thinking or money thinking saying okay athletes are saying you can't make more revenue when you retire this is your source of your income is here saying okay that's a challenge what can i do

Speaker 4 and i remember going for didn't you launch a fund or something i did i did and so i i started i went for a ride and i said okay stop thinking of it that way you're thinking of it the wrong way why'd you start playing basketball because i loved it all right what do you love to do oh i love to tell stories

Speaker 4 all right let's do that and then that's that's where it started for me. And

Speaker 4 then on top of that, it became things like, you know, you started learning more about the financial industry and about players going broke once they retire and saying, okay,

Speaker 4 how can I minimize the chances of that happening? What are things that I can do

Speaker 4 to invest my money smartly? Also help control some of that outcome to a certain extent.

Speaker 4 And that's when I called Mike Rapoli, who Mike Rapoli was an entrepreneur who built vitamin Water, Pirates Booty, and some other companies. Started learning from them.

Speaker 4 Storytelling is something you're really passionate about. What's a story over your life that's been a constant theme that you go back to?

Speaker 4 Is there something you heard as a kid that really resonates with you or a book or a movie that just feels like this is me? Yeah, that's funny.

Speaker 4 Movies, there are plenty, but there's a quote from one of my English teachers at Lower Marion named Mr. Fisk.
He had a great quote that said, rest at the end, not in the middle. Not going to rest.

Speaker 4 I'm going to keep on pushing now. There are a lot of answers that I don't have.

Speaker 4 Even questions that I don't have. But I'm just going to keep going.
I'm just going to keep going. And I'll figure these things out as we go, right? And you just continue to build that way.

Speaker 4 Rest at the end. Rest at the end.
What's the question that eats you alive the most that you haven't answered yet? The question that eats me alive that I haven't answered yet.

Speaker 4 That you're still looking for the answer. I'm still looking for the answer.

Speaker 4 How to tell a good story.

Speaker 4 I don't think anybody has that answer. You know, like when I sat down to write a dear basketball, I was like, okay, what do I want to say?

Speaker 4 And,

Speaker 4 you know, you have certain acts in how you can structure certain things, right? The ebbs and flows of story,

Speaker 4 certain formulas that have been there since the beginning of time. But it's such an in that inexact sense.
So challenging, yeah. Right.
And so

Speaker 4 That one question is really interesting. Why do you want to tell a great story? I think stories is what moves the world.

Speaker 4 Whether it's an inspirational story, it's an informational one. Nothing in this world moves without story.

Speaker 1 Why do you think so many people struggle with self-confidence and self-belief today? Is it social media, outside influences? Is it people just don't think they're good enough?

Speaker 1 Like, how come you were able to drink the Kool-Aid and stay in that environment and not not let outside forces creep in?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I think that's important. And I think there's a difference between having self-belief at your core and having situational moments where you don't feel good about it, right?

Speaker 5 There's a hundred times more that I've walked on the court and just didn't feel great. You know, like, I don't know if I can do this, right?

Speaker 5 So that's different than ultimately deep down knowing I have what it takes to do it. So those are two different things, right?

Speaker 5 So I would say, yeah, there have been plenty of times where I was like, you know, oh my God.

Speaker 5 but at the end, I always felt like I was worthy and that I deserved it. And

Speaker 5 that's purely my background. It was purely my parents who just gave us that from the very beginning.
Like there was nothing else I ever heard since I could remember.

Speaker 5 So I was very fortunate in that sense. And I think as an adult, I've definitely faced some moments where I was like, I've felt like, I don't know if I have a long hair.

Speaker 5 And, you know, that was, yeah, that, that, that felt.

Speaker 5 um like what situations do you mean uh i i guess they call it imposter syndrome really yeah so i've had different moments um i'm working with a new ai company in spirit interior design i'm thinking should i really be here i mean i have a background in interior design and then i had to fundraise for the first time this was a nightmare for me really

Speaker 5 and oh my god like the anxiety and the the issues going into it it was horrible and i that's the moment where i understood imposter syndrome So I went through my whole life of like, pretty much feeling like, you know, king of the court.

Speaker 5 And then I get there and have to raise money.

Speaker 3 I'm like, I don't want to be here.

Speaker 5 I'm so afraid. What's happening? So I think that was a great experience for me.
And I think that I saw it for what it was. And I knew I had to push through, but it was extraordinarily uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 It was awful.

Speaker 1 What was so uncomfortable about it? Was it? Doing something you've never done before, like getting out of your comfort zone and asking to raise money for something that maybe you're new at.

Speaker 3 Is that what it was?

Speaker 5 Exactly. My parents, once again, back to them.
My mom says, Never ask for anything. So just for me that to have to ask, like, you know, we're raising money.
We need you to give us this.

Speaker 3 Oh, no, I have to ask for money.

Speaker 5 This is out of my DNA. I don't ask for anything.
I'm used to be able to do everything for myself.

Speaker 5 Also, just a pitch, like in AI, like, I don't know anything about AI.

Speaker 3 I had to learn new terms.

Speaker 5 What am I doing here?

Speaker 5 Just in general, I think on the second call,

Speaker 5 the person I was pitching with, they fell off. So they asked me, Okay, yeah, what are next steps in the timeline?

Speaker 3 And I'm all by myself, and you have to, you have to say something, you know?

Speaker 5 And so those kinds of things happen, and you're completely unprepared. And it's like, how do you deal with it?

Speaker 5 But I absolutely think that my experience in sport helped me to deal with that kind of dealing with ambiguity.

Speaker 5 It's just, it's not easy, easy, but sometimes you don't know what's going to happen when you walk on the court, but you have to deal with it. So I think that helped.

Speaker 5 But by no means, it was a tough situation. Do I ever want to fundraise again? Absolutely not.

Speaker 5 I hope I don't have to. It's not a place I'd like to be, but

Speaker 5 it was good to be very humbled.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 1 What do you think was the greatest skill that you developed in your training on the court and as an athlete that you were able to translate into these moments of raising money for a business.

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Speaker 5 Well, I mean, it's hard to pick one, right?

Speaker 5 I'm a workhorse. I don't mind working day and night.
I'll work all day, work all night, and start over again, repeat.

Speaker 5 I think that lack of fear of laying it on the line, blood, sweat, tears, leave your heart out there, walk off on a stretcher, or not even walk off, be carried off on a stretcher.

Speaker 5 So, you know, that kind of thing, not being afraid of hard work. I think a lot of people are afraid of that level of intensity.
But that's honestly what it takes to succeed.

Speaker 5 The people who are succeeding, a lot of times, you see folks when they get to the finish line, the trophy's up, right? They played a beautiful match or created an unbelievable business.

Speaker 5 Now you see them, and they're at billions. You never heard of them before.
You didn't see them the 10 or 15 years that they put in. You didn't see their failures beforehand.

Speaker 5 No one sees, you know, the injuries that you have around the court when you just can't get it right, and the frustration, and the back and forth, and the losses.

Speaker 5 So, all of those things really teach you

Speaker 5 all the lessons you need in life.

Speaker 5 And the failures, too. The failures that you have to get back up and you still have to believe in yourself just as much.
And if you don't, still pretend at least that you do.

Speaker 5 Sometimes just faking it is enough. Sometimes you don't know how you're going to get there.

Speaker 5 And I think being okay with not knowing, but knowing that there's a point A to point B, and you got to get to point B.

Speaker 5 And it's okay not to exactly know, but you know you're, you know, you're swimming through the water, you're climbing the mountain, whatever you face, you have to do it on your terms.

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 1 Have you ever been afraid of failure or have you just been confident

Speaker 3 really? For sure.

Speaker 5 For sure.

Speaker 5 Everyone is.

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 5 you can't let it stop you. My mom always said fear is a devil.
And also you have to think about the decisions you would make if you weren't afraid.

Speaker 5 You know, like if I wasn't afraid, what shot would I actually go for? You know,

Speaker 5 what would I try? What would I give up? Also, if I weren't afraid. A lot of times it's not even about going for it.
Actually, what would you leave behind?

Speaker 1 Interesting.

Speaker 5 A lot of times we hang on to stuff that's just holding us back.

Speaker 5 And also, if you aren't afraid, are you then you can actually look at yourself. I think sports teaches you self-awareness.

Speaker 5 And I have a real thing for not being self-aware and being around people who aren't self-aware bothers the heck out of me.

Speaker 3 Right. You know, so

Speaker 5 if you're not self-aware, if you do not tell yourself the truth, you will not win.

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 5 And that's what life is about, winning and being honest with yourself.

Speaker 1 What's the thing, speaking of holding on to things, what's the thing that you in your life held on to for the longest period that once you let go of it allowed you to step up in a greater way as an athlete or a human or, you know, in business?

Speaker 3 What was that thing?

Speaker 5 You know, this is going to sound weird, but I'm a person who's always involved in the arts.

Speaker 5 And when you are buying art, for me, I buy or look at art that I love because it makes me happy and I find it beautiful. There is no category.
I don't buy just this or that. And so over the years,

Speaker 5 when you look back, you're like, I should have gotten that piece. I thought about it or I should have invested in this artist.
And it's about...

Speaker 5 buying work that you love and you get to live with it right and so i would walk through art fairs and everywhere you looked was someone else that i just didn't get that has like blown up now and i think finally once i let it go

Speaker 5 i let it go i felt such peace you know, just like such peace. And like, it's fine.

Speaker 5 That was hard. And I know that's a weird answer.

Speaker 1 So the letting go of the letting go of, oh, I should have invested in this. I should have taken this action and beating yourself up.
You let that part of you go for that.

Speaker 5 I had to let that go. And now I feel free.

Speaker 3 That's good.

Speaker 5 That's good. I know you weren't expecting that answer, but.

Speaker 1 No, whatever's on your heart and mind.

Speaker 3 What do you think? Regret.

Speaker 1 What do you think has been been the emotion that you've had that you held on to for too long in your life that when you let go allowed you to be a better human being, a better athlete, a better person in your life?

Speaker 3 I've heard you hold on to emotions. Really?

Speaker 5 No, I mean, an emotional.

Speaker 1 Or beliefs or beliefs.

Speaker 5 I don't know.

Speaker 5 I don't hold on to things. I think that's one of my strengths that I do let go outside of that art thing.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 5 things happen as they happen. I think I would hold on to things if I was continuing to make the same mistakes over and over.

Speaker 5 But I'm human. I make mistakes.
Sometimes I make a decision that could have been better, but I learn from it immediately. I accept responsibility for it and I move on.

Speaker 5 And I think that's all you can do, right? So

Speaker 5 you can't hold on to stuff.

Speaker 5 Unless you have a time machine and you can go backwards. But otherwise, there's no point.

Speaker 1 What would you say, you know,

Speaker 1 your parents, obviously, I think a lot of people know about your parents making a big impact in your life. You speak about them a lot.

Speaker 1 What would you say is the greatest lesson that each of your parents taught you growing up that you still hold on to today and implement today in your life?

Speaker 5 Yeah, you know what?

Speaker 5 That's hard because there were so many lessons. You have to understand everything was a lesson.
Even watching a cartoon was a lesson. Like there was nothing that wasn't a lesson.

Speaker 5 So I'm so grateful for that. And as I've, you know, had time to spend around my nieces, I just feel like I've just totally failed because I've made, I feel like I haven't made anything a lesson yet.

Speaker 3 Like, I got to bring my parents' energy to this.

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 5 I think one of the biggest gifts my parents gave me was spirituality.

Speaker 5 It's so important to have something to believe in. It's so important to have hope.

Speaker 5 The world's a beautiful place, but it's a tough place too. And if you don't have belief in values, you will do anything and then you'll get anything.

Speaker 3 If you don't have hope,

Speaker 5 it's going to be hard to get through this world where so many things happen. And it's not even to you, but to other people that you hear about that's so disheartening.
So,

Speaker 5 all that is very grounding. And I think it helps you to let go of stuff.
It helps you to play better in your game. It helps you to realize, like, I'm going to give my everything to this.

Speaker 5 And if I feel that's fine, I have something bigger and better that's backing me up. And I think it just lets you be happy.
So, to me, that's the biggest gift that they gave me.

Speaker 5 I'm just like my mom, though.

Speaker 5 My family jokes transformation complete.

Speaker 3 We're exactly the same.

Speaker 3 And I'm proud of that.

Speaker 5 I love being just like her, but we have our weaknesses. We definitely have weaknesses.

Speaker 1 What is your weakness that you think you could improve on?

Speaker 5 Zero patience.

Speaker 3 Me too.

Speaker 5 I can't always read the room as well as I like. My emotional intelligence isn't as high as I'd like it to be.
And that's not something I can fix. You're born how you are.

Speaker 5 And I just tell people, I'm empathetic, but I don't always pick out bonnet. Just tell me.
I'll be there.

Speaker 3 Just know.

Speaker 5 So you got to let me in on some things.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 5 I think once I became aware of it,

Speaker 5 because during COVID, I had a friend stay with me. And like, the friend came and like ate all the food, drank all the drinks, didn't get groceries.

Speaker 5 So I'm like buying food, buying drinks, buying groceries.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 it was

Speaker 5 everything, you know, because we just, we thought it was going to be a few weeks and it lasted months, right? It was a fun experience, but I had to learn how impatient I was.

Speaker 5 And also, the standard I hold for myself is so high, but because of the standard my parents held, like we weren't even allowed to walk slow.

Speaker 5 My dad would say, slow walker, slow thinker, you can't walk slow. So everything was fast, quick.

Speaker 5 So I learned to do things so quickly, so fast, so efficient that then, you know, someone else is in your house and you see that they're moving so slow. You're like, this can be done in a minute.

Speaker 5 Like, what are you doing?

Speaker 5 And, you know, my house is someone else's. So I never complained about it, but it was like, buy some groceries.

Speaker 3 Like, you can't just eat all the food.

Speaker 5 So I learned a lot about myself and I realized that I needed to work on my EQ.

Speaker 3 And then I realized that.

Speaker 5 Some people had more of it and others don't. So I always, my family helps me understand things and situations.
They're like my crutch.

Speaker 1 Are you, do you feel like you're just overly generous and and not you're not thinking, oh, is this person just taking advantage or just maybe they weren't thinking about contributing?

Speaker 3 No, not even that.

Speaker 5 But like once I was at a party and I was talking to some friends and then one of my friends came over. And when she left, everyone said, what's wrong with her?

Speaker 5 She seemed horribly sad and I never saw it.

Speaker 5 And so I said, wait, let me go check on her. So those are things like I will never see.
And it's not because I don't want to. It just goes over my head.

Speaker 5 So those kinds of things I've seen, I can improve on. That's why I tell people I care about.
It's like, I have this, you know, you know, this thing that it doesn't work as well as others.

Speaker 5 So just tell me everything.

Speaker 1 Sure. I'm curious about

Speaker 1 your mindset. You know, again, with someone like yourself who's accomplished so much at the highest level in the world at what you do,

Speaker 1 can you break down a little bit on how you think? before entering a big moment in your life,

Speaker 1 in your sport or in the business you're building. Like, is there a process that you think about when you're going to enter the arena of whatever you're working on?

Speaker 1 Is there a mantra, a process? Do you visualize something? Do you look at it? Do you release something?

Speaker 3 Can you just walk through a little bit about that process?

Speaker 5 I think the process changes depending on the moment you are in life, right?

Speaker 5 I think you have these moments as an athlete or in business or in life where you're on top of the world, you can do nothing wrong, everything's golden. Then you like,

Speaker 5 okay, it's great. You're in a role, you're in a you're in a flow right

Speaker 5 and then you have other moments where it's not great and so you have to be more uh cognizant of of that process be super self-aware and really extract out what's what what you're feeling and figure out what part's real and what isn't because we can get the feels right

Speaker 5 and you have to distract like what's what is just a feeling and what is the what is the issue

Speaker 5 and i do that by journaling uh i start writing what i'm feeling and then when i I start writing down all the things I'm feeling, then I'm able to recognize this is actually the one thing that's real.

Speaker 5 It is an issue. The rest is just a bunch of other stuff that's just floating in my head.
And I can get rid of the fluff and then focus on the real thing that's bothering me.

Speaker 5 I think also a lot of

Speaker 5 being your best is just preparation. You cannot be great without the preparation and you can't feel good about what you're doing unless you've done the work.

Speaker 5 The greats are doing the work. They're putting in the work day in, day out.

Speaker 5 If you're in finance, you're up all night reading, whatever that is that it takes to do that, being on top of your industry, thinking, literally just sitting and thinking and meditating about what you like to accomplish.

Speaker 5 And it's the same in sport too. You sit and you meditate about what you'd like to accomplish.
So being great is intentional.

Speaker 5 And then when you're in a bad place, also getting out of it is also intentional too. But it's just realizing where you are and applying what you need to succeed no matter where you are.

Speaker 5 And I think when you're in a bad place, you just have to realize

Speaker 5 that

Speaker 5 a lot of it is also mental too. You can just,

Speaker 5 what I try to tell myself is that this moment, I'm anticipating what might happen that could be bad.

Speaker 5 But anticipation is just that. It's not even real.

Speaker 3 What if something great happened?

Speaker 5 What if something amazing could happen? What if I could make that happen? And it's like changing your thought around things is so powerful. And it's not easy and you have to constantly work on it.

Speaker 5 But if you put in the work, your mind will change. It's like anything else.
If you go to the gym and do those biceps for six weeks, you're going to see some improvement.

Speaker 5 So if you flex your mind in a different way, instead of saying, I can't for six weeks, if you say I can for six weeks, your mind goes on a completely different pathway.

Speaker 5 And it's so powerful and so true. And it's not easy.
And you have to continually do it. Once you do it just once,

Speaker 5 it doesn't just stick. You just have to keep training your mind.
And I think sometimes people forget that part, that training your mind is so important.

Speaker 5 If you want to want to be strong mentally, train to be strong mentally.

Speaker 1 Ooh, I love that. How do you train to stay strong mentally?

Speaker 1 Personally.

Speaker 5 Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 5 First is preparation, right?

Speaker 5 Doing the preparation.

Speaker 3 That's ground zero.

Speaker 1 Doing the work. Part of the reps.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 Putting in the work. Whatever that may be,

Speaker 5 you have to put in the work.

Speaker 5 So if you don't do that, you're never going to be great. You're never going to be mentally strong, whatever it is you'd like to achieve.

Speaker 5 Once you've put in the work, then you realize what you're good at, what you're not.

Speaker 5 I mean, me personally, I think there's probably a lot of people who are smarter who are going to get that 1600 on the SAT. I'm probably not going to get the 1600.

Speaker 5 But my strength is that, you know, I'm extremely logical and, you know, I notice patterns. I'm very quick in those sorts of things.
So then I have to set myself up in a way that plays in my strengths.

Speaker 5 Not everyone's going to have the same strengths. Not everyone's going to be good at everything.

Speaker 5 But once you've done your work and you see your strengths, then you got to figure out a way to play to that. And then always, of course, work on your weaknesses over time.

Speaker 5 And those at some point can come up too until you're like this complete player, you know, ready player one.

Speaker 5 So it's just, yeah, it's like, let's play this game to win.

Speaker 3 If we're going to play, let's win.

Speaker 5 Or else there's no need to play.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. I think a lot of people want to win at whatever game they're playing in life or their career or their business or their sport.
They want to be more successful. They want to win.

Speaker 1 And it seems like more than ever,

Speaker 1 society, at least in America, American society, seems like everyone,

Speaker 1 lots of people want to become more famous, wealthy, and successful.

Speaker 1 And the more people I interview and ask about this who have fame, wealth, and success,

Speaker 1 they talk about, you know, the pressures that come with that.

Speaker 1 Can you share a little bit about how you were, did you feel like you were mentally and emotionally prepared when you became, you know, a world icon in your sport and you started to gain popularity, fame, success, money?

Speaker 1 Did you feel you were mentally and emotionally prepared? Or was that a challenge or was it a lot of pressure at first?

Speaker 5 I think I was aware

Speaker 5 of the pressure. I started really young.

Speaker 3 Like my first pro match was 14.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 a lot of it, though, the youth and the inexperience is in some way a protection. You just don't really, really get it.

Speaker 3 You don't know. Yeah.

Speaker 5 But also it can go the other way too. And I think there were some matches where I felt pressure to perform up to maybe what I was supposed to be, like this hype.

Speaker 5 But at the end of the day, I failed sometimes. And then the failure was a lesson.

Speaker 3 And I learned from it.

Speaker 5 And so that was like, you know,

Speaker 5 even though I failed, it was still a step up.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 5 It wasn't a step down because I learned something and I got more determined.

Speaker 5 So I think that a lot of what people want today is based on what they think other people have and social media.

Speaker 5 I think that's a lot of pressure for young people too, to be successful like immediately.

Speaker 5 No one's successful that young. I was successful young, but I started playing tennis at four and I put in a decade before I even like went pro.
So yes, it was young, but there was,

Speaker 5 you know, millions of hours of work that happened before that happened. Nothing happens that fast.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 3 really...

Speaker 5 the process is the most joy I find, right?

Speaker 5 When you can't figure something out or you do figure it, once you figure it out and you've put in the work and you find the right process and you're able to repeat that process over and over and over again, the sense of pride and accomplishment that you get, not from the success, but the work you put in to get there,

Speaker 5 that's where the happiness comes from. Wow.
And I think there might be a generation now that doesn't understand that, that there's so much pride in your work.

Speaker 5 Like what you do, work is a part of your happiness.

Speaker 5 You don't want to circumvent that of that's a part of who you are that accomplishment accomplishing things gives you confidence and happiness and so if you are empty or because you haven't you skipped that process then it's something to look at wow did you ever feel like you got punished after a loss No, nothing was worse than the punishment that I felt like internally, you know, that my expectation of myself.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 I think that's a good thing and a bad thing. You got to temper it, right? Sometimes your expectations can be, you can be so hard on yourself that you never pat yourself on the back enough.

Speaker 5 But some people aren't hard enough on themselves, and so they never make it. You got to find the middle, the middle ground of like being hard, but also like recognizing the things you accomplish too.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and not holding on to it for like days or weeks of, you know, a loss.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that's easier said than done.

Speaker 3 Like we hold on to our losses, whether we realize it or not.

Speaker 5 And you just have to think about this, a new day, like

Speaker 1 a new possibility and that's not easy absolutely the younger generation might have today or the confusion around how to build confidence can you share and I think this speaks into building a confident identity can you share your passion for really starting to shift the conversation from appearance to capability and your own personal journey given the insights in this issue it's so important that it doesn't matter what you look like it matters what's inside of you that you can get out to live the life that you want to live.

Speaker 5 And figuring out what that life is and that having other people's approval or none of those things really matter for, you know, it doesn't help you get out of bed.

Speaker 5 You know, the research has shown that about 45% of girls globally quit sports by the age of 14, and that's due to low body confidence.

Speaker 5 And when I think about what if that happened to me,

Speaker 5 I turned pro at 14.

Speaker 5 What if I had stopped sports at age 14 because I didn't feel good about myself? I mean, this is literally my life. I got to play sports and change my life.
And through that, that was never my plan.

Speaker 5 I just wanted to win Wimbledon, change other people's lives. Just by doing something positive for yourself, you never know what impact you're going to have on not only yourself, but the world.

Speaker 5 I had no idea that was going to happen. I just wanted to lift the trophy.
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Speaker 5 You cannot teach in a classroom or in a book what you learn from sports.

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Speaker 1 How did you learn to build confidence during a time of maybe not feeling that confident growing up?

Speaker 3 Gosh, I think that's, you know, I think that's the thing is that

Speaker 3 you don't get confidence by thinking about having confidence. You know, you get confidence by action.
And I never had confidence before I started wrestling.

Speaker 3 And I think that's why I was always trying to fit in or

Speaker 3 with

Speaker 3 the kids that were drinking and that would make me cool and then I'd be smoking and it would take the edge off from the self-consciousness and everything that was going on at home at the time and uh and then when i was 15

Speaker 3 and i had just failed pe i was getting ready for my junior cert which is i'm not sure what the equivalent is over here but it's you're when you're 15 you're doing these exams in school that at the time they make it seem like if you fail these your life is over really but yeah

Speaker 3 all the pressure that they put on you in school this will determine the rest of your life exactly where you go to school and college and everything else yeah and and that's that's

Speaker 3 what I felt like. And at the time, even though I was a little degenerate and

Speaker 3 I wasn't doing good in school and I was drinking and I was smoking, I was doing everything that I shouldn't be doing. Like I still had ambition.
I still wanted to do something good in my life.

Speaker 3 I still wanted to be a lawyer or something productive in society. And

Speaker 3 I realized on one random Monday when I wanted a beer that at 15, at 15, that I needed to turn my life around.

Speaker 3 I needed to do something different, that I couldn't, I couldn't keep going down this pathway of failing PE and just not applying myself to anything.

Speaker 3 And so I started looking up like different kickboxing things because gyms weren't the thing in Ireland back then.

Speaker 3 There was like two or something, you know, there was, there was, there was this big gym, but it was too preppy.

Speaker 3 It was too preppy, and I was an alternative kid, you know, the ones with the black lipstick and the dog collars and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 And so I did, you know, going to a gym just seemed too mainstream for me, too Jane fond of it.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 then one day I go into the computer room, because in 2002, everybody had a computer room.

Speaker 3 And my brother's looking up this website, and it was called Hammerlock, and it was this wrestling school over in the UK.

Speaker 3 And I was like, what are you doing there? And he was like, well, I was thinking about training as a wrestler.

Speaker 3 Instantly, I had this jealousy,

Speaker 3 this feeling of I need to do that.

Speaker 3 And I was like, oh, you're going to go over there? And he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 And I was like, there's no way. There's no way my mom is going to let me go over to the UK to train.
15. I'm also a degenerate.
Like, she's aware. She's aware that I'm going off the rails.
And then

Speaker 3 the promoter there wrote back to him to let him know that there was two Irish lads that were going to be opening a school like an hour away from us on the train.

Speaker 3 And so, that's how I found out about it. And he told me that.
And I was like, Oh, I want to go too. He was like, No, you're not going.
You have to be 16. And I was like, I'll lie.

Speaker 3 And he was like, No, I don't want to have to look after my little sister. I was like, You won't have to

Speaker 3 lying. And

Speaker 3 I went down there and I started,

Speaker 3 and that was it. All of a sudden, for the first time in my life, I wanted to apply myself to something.
I wanted to get better at something.

Speaker 3 I saw progress in

Speaker 3 each training session, and that built confidence. Because not only was I applying myself and getting better at something and seeing results, but I also now had this community.

Speaker 3 And I think,

Speaker 3 There there and and there was also this feeling of like I'm I'm different, which I, you know, I always felt a little different, you know, I wasn't, wasn't a cool kid, even though I tried to be.

Speaker 3 But, but, but, but now I had this confidence in my difference, you know?

Speaker 3 And I was the only girl there, too. I was the only girl in a group of lads, and I was hanging with them.
Or maybe not, but I was there. I felt like I was.

Speaker 3 And so that gave me confidence that I could do this and I could set myself apart and

Speaker 3 there was something more to me. And then I just continued on there.
I never thought,

Speaker 3 or not that I never thought,

Speaker 3 maybe I had like this suppressed dream, but I still thought I was going to be a lawyer and do something realistic. Really? Until I was like 17.
And it was the first time

Speaker 3 I had

Speaker 3 played the heel role, the bad guy role. And I was teaming with my brother.

Speaker 3 And when you're a heel, when you're the bad, you can do do no wrong because you can just have fun you can taunt the crowd you can be an idiot and uh that's your job yes there's such freedom in that there's such freedom in that and i came back and i was like this is this is this is what i need to do this is what i'm meant to do this is what i'm gonna do

Speaker 1 at 17 at 17

Speaker 3 and then by 18 dropped out of college moved over to Canada, wrestled around Canada, around America, around Japan,

Speaker 3 around Europe.

Speaker 3 My visa ran out from Canada, I had to move back in with my mom, and my mom, God bless her, like

Speaker 3 she's only ever wanted the best for me.

Speaker 3 And the best in her eyes was not being a wrestler, especially back then, because what I wanted and what I visualized for myself was me being seen on par as The Rock, as Stone Cold Sea Boston, as Mick Folly, as all these lads that I looked up to.

Speaker 3 But if you watched TV and you watched how the women were booked, there was lots of brown panties matches, there was mud wrestling matches. That wasn't anything I wanted to do.

Speaker 3 That was certainly nothing my mother wanted me to do. And

Speaker 3 so.

Speaker 1 There wasn't opportunities for women to really be stars back then. Not when you started.

Speaker 3 Not in the way that I wanted to be.

Speaker 3 Not in the way that I wanted to be. And so I started looking at

Speaker 3 the women's promotions in Japan. And then I went over there and I wrestled in Japan.
And I got assigned to this advertising agency over there that wanted to promote me as this big-time wrestler.

Speaker 3 But then, when I came home and I had to live with my mom again, she's gone, What's your plan? What's your plan? What's your plan? What's your plan? What's your plan? She always wanted a plan.

Speaker 3 But with wrestling, and I suppose any artistic endeavor,

Speaker 3 I genuinely think wrestling is an artistic endeavor.

Speaker 3 You can't necessarily plan it.

Speaker 3 Why not? Why can't you plan it?

Speaker 3 You can have a rough plan,

Speaker 3 but so much is out of your control. You know, you can work towards what you want,

Speaker 3 but

Speaker 3 you can't decide

Speaker 3 when you're going to get on somebody's radar, what they're going to be looking for.

Speaker 3 You know, I think it's the same with

Speaker 3 say, for example, an actor. An actor can do the best audition of their life, but they might have brown hair and the person is looking for blonde hair.

Speaker 3 And so they see this great audition, but that's not what they were looking for on that day.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 so I started to believe that if I looked a certain way, that that would give me... that that was my plan.

Speaker 3 That that is how I would get there because all these women looked like figure competitors and they were beautiful models and you know, it was

Speaker 3 just a regular average looking girl with a a a bit of a pair of biceps on me and decent set of shoulders.

Speaker 3 But like at the time, you know, there was there was enhancements that were standardly involved in the hiring process.

Speaker 3 And uh I d I didn't have them, nor did I want to get them. And uh and and so I thought, well, if if I have abs and if I'm ripped, then if I look in this way, then they'll want me.
And so

Speaker 3 I kind of compare it to

Speaker 3 the uh survivor song, you know, on the eye of the tiger, and you

Speaker 3 change your passion for glory because then my focus shifted from just how I looked and how that would make if I change how I am to make them want me as opposed to

Speaker 3 being true to myself. Interesting.
How long did you think? And them

Speaker 3 wanting

Speaker 1 you for who you are.

Speaker 3 For who I am.

Speaker 1 So, how long did you transform into someone you think they would want?

Speaker 1 How long was that process for?

Speaker 3 Well, it didn't last very long because I completely destroyed myself. So,

Speaker 3 I started bodybuilding them. I was like, oh, let me sign up for this bodybuilding competition.
And if I can do well in this bodybuilding competition, then they'll see that.

Speaker 3 Just the logic that goes through my head. They'll see that, and then they'll be like, Oh, yeah, let's sign her.
Like, she'll be on a magazine or something, and we'll sign her that way. Interesting.

Speaker 1 How old were you then?

Speaker 3 19. Okay.
I was 19 then.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I mean, maybe it would have worked if I committed to it. But anyway, the point was, I didn't know what I was doing.
I was with this lad who had never trained a girl before.

Speaker 3 He was a bodybuilder himself, but he was a giant man and a giant, giant man, and who had done many competitions. And he was training me, and my diet, then my diet was all over the place.

Speaker 3 And then he put me onto this other guy who gave me this other diet, which then I just became emaciated. And I was trying to wrestle around Japan and all this stuff.

Speaker 3 My body was just hurting, but like I was loving how I looked in the mirror because I had these abs. And I was like disciplined, and my focus was what I was going to eat and how I was going to train.

Speaker 3 And like, I had this then sense of ego, like,

Speaker 3 look at how disciplined I can be. I am so much better than everybody because i have this discipline but ultimately i was like dying on the inside because i had no energy

Speaker 3 my moods were all over the place i was like leering at cookbooks of what i was going to eat when when when this diet finished and uh

Speaker 3 and and and and ultimately i i ended up not being able to make it past 10 weeks of this diet. There was two more weeks till the competition.
I just, just

Speaker 3 the guy who was trying to me suggested a cheat meal and that was it then I just went completely off the rails and couldn't get back on wow and then that that that

Speaker 3 then became an unhealthy relationship with food for years really years and years and years completely destroyed uh how I looked at myself and everything like that and how I valued myself.

Speaker 1 How did you value yourself then?

Speaker 3 On how I looked. Suddenly, like from somebody who had gone from valuing myself on my substance and what I brought to the table

Speaker 3 in terms of wrestling and my craft, I was then just now, I was just conforming to what I thought

Speaker 3 they wanted and what society wanted. But by then, then I was like, I don't even know if I want to wrestle anymore.
Maybe that dream is over. It's time to be realistic and get a real job.

Speaker 3 And I ended up being a flight attendant. And

Speaker 1 so you were wrestling, you were pursuing professional wrestling, I guess, at the time. Yeah.
Then you quit to be a flight attendant?

Speaker 3 Then, well, then I was like, well,

Speaker 3 then I then started thinking, oh, well, maybe I'll be a fitness model because that'll be easy on my body.

Speaker 3 But I couldn't maintain it because I was so hungry. I just loved eating.
Like, I loved eating so much. And

Speaker 3 so then that,

Speaker 3 then I became bulimic and all of these things.

Speaker 3 And it was really just

Speaker 3 going from being somebody who cared

Speaker 3 about

Speaker 3 their mind,

Speaker 3 who thought their mind was powerful, to just thinking that I was a set of abs and a pair of arms, you know, and that was where I put my focus. And it took a long time to shake that.

Speaker 1 How old were you when you shook it?

Speaker 3 35 wow no no no no no not quite but like um

Speaker 3 i think it was a process it was a process

Speaker 3 it was it was a process

Speaker 3 because i was a flight attendant hated it but was still trying i then did the bodybuilding competition i came third by the way wow out of four

Speaker 3 yeah yeah it sounded impressive um

Speaker 3 so so i did the bodybuilding competition. It was like standing up on stage.
Oh my goodness, I'm so glad they just, everybody didn't have an iPhone back then. But

Speaker 3 I did that, and I was just like, why am I standing

Speaker 3 in my underwear showing people my muscles? Like,

Speaker 3 this doesn't feel like me, you know? Because for some people...

Speaker 3 For some bodybuilders, it's such an artistic thing. They are sculpting their body.

Speaker 3 They love it. They love the discipline of it.
But for me,

Speaker 3 it was some sort of a means to an end, some sort of way for me to be validated by society or something.

Speaker 3 And it just didn't feel authentic and true to me. It just felt like I was,

Speaker 3 yeah, I was just trying to be something that I wasn't.

Speaker 3 It was just consumed by my body will be my vessel too. Wow.
But if it looks a certain way, then I'll be successful and whatever. And then

Speaker 3 I started to realize that

Speaker 3 the part of wrestling that I loved wasn't just the training, it was the performance. I loved the performance.
I love the crowd. I loved the creativity.
I loved the storytelling.

Speaker 3 And I think throughout my whole life, I found that storytelling is what draws me more than anything.

Speaker 3 In school, I was terrible at every subject. except English and history because it was just stories.
Like

Speaker 3 it was hearing stories and learning about these stories.

Speaker 3 And I rocked at those subjects, terrible at everything else. And

Speaker 3 so then I went back to school to study acting.

Speaker 1 Is this in London now or where is this?

Speaker 3 This is in Dublin. I saw them in Dublin.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm kind of all over the place.
But like at 22, I went back to college, studied acting in Dublin, and then did a year in Chicago. Wow.

Speaker 3 And that felt like,

Speaker 3 okay, now I'm back. Now I'm back a little bit.
And then

Speaker 3 it seemed more like I was part of a creative endeavor.

Speaker 3 Really? When you're doing the acting. Yes.

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Speaker 1 That's COOP sleepgoods.com slash greatness. Where did you feel like you were not connecting with in that first year? Was it the story aspect? The story part was what helped me.

Speaker 3 That's what saved my life.

Speaker 3 kept you in it yeah yeah yeah because dusty rhodes was the promo teacher at the time and dusty like loved his his broken toys the ones that were like rough around the edges but he saw that had some soul or something something about them just just a little something just a spark and he he tried to bring that out and so i didn't know I didn't know who I wanted to be.

Speaker 3 Everybody was like, find a character, find a character, find a character. So I'd try out all these stupid characters.

Speaker 1 None of them worked.

Speaker 3 No, and of course none of them worked. They were all awful.

Speaker 3 But it was the trying.

Speaker 3 It was the being able to put yourself out there and

Speaker 3 throw at the wall and see what sticks. Right.

Speaker 3 Nothing stopped.

Speaker 3 But I tried and I kept trying. And I think he valued the creativity

Speaker 3 more than the outcome. Because if somebody came in, they were the total package.

Speaker 3 I can point to there's a wrestler called LA Knight at the time, um, who

Speaker 3 right now is making big waves in wrestling. But at the time, he was down there, we started on the same day, and he had everything, he had it just down, he had it down, you know.
So, Dusty had no

Speaker 3 dusty was like, Yeah, you're great, but he had no more work to do because he already had his act down. Whereas somebody like me was completely lost, completely screwed.

Speaker 3 And I think i think i think there was a combination of of dusty and william regal

Speaker 3 that saved my job wow many many times because they saw that there was something

Speaker 3 something

Speaker 3 there in this irish girl that had not a clue so that had not a clue because i didn't like look like any of these other girls that were like

Speaker 3 stunners and

Speaker 3 i wasn't great in the ring but there was something when i talked that was unique was that was unique yeah interesting?

Speaker 1 Is it like six days a week training?

Speaker 3 So it was like five days a week, and then we would do three shows. So you'd do Monday, Tuesday, you would do

Speaker 3 a school session, which you'd watch matches, but then there'd be extra training.

Speaker 1 Gosh, that would have been so fun.

Speaker 3 The watching the matches?

Speaker 1 Just, I mean, that whole experience.

Speaker 3 Just like being a full-time athlete, training, watching, testing, trying, just like.

Speaker 3 In hindsight. Right.
In hindsight.

Speaker 3 But I remember that.

Speaker 3 that was one of the things that uh triple h would always say you know because he was head of developmental and he was always enjoy this enjoy this there's never gonna be and there was times when i would feel like i was in a rocky movie and you know like i get that like

Speaker 3 and you could enjoy it but the other part of it was not sleeping because you were always scared that you were going to be on the chopping block you could be cut like every week yeah yeah there was

Speaker 3 We called it Black Friday. And you'd come in, you'd get pulled into the office, and that was it.
And your dream would be over. and uh

Speaker 3 you know I had several friends that that got cut and and it was devastating and my friend Joe the reason that I got signed in the first place who I lived with he got cut

Speaker 3 and so that was a whole new world to navigate and

Speaker 3 but but so once Once the fear of not being cut subsided, then you could enjoy it more.

Speaker 3 But when you were scared that you were gonna get fired every other day, not enjoyable. Not enjoyable at all.

Speaker 1 So when did you feel like

Speaker 3 I'm making it?

Speaker 1 Like when did you feel like, okay, I'm actually making it, I don't know, in my sport, in society, culturally, financially? When was the moment from 10 years ago to like I'm arriving?

Speaker 3 So I think it was shortly after that. Shortly after the breakdown, shortly after the breakdown of, okay, wait, I'm not a bad person.

Speaker 3 And then I remember coming into promo class, not doing a character, but just cutting an angry promo of, of, of, I am sick of the, I put in all of this work.

Speaker 3 I have done this, I have done that, I have done this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And

Speaker 3 this is why I deserve a shot. This is why I need to be on TV.
And I remember cutting that promo.

Speaker 3 And then like people like seeing a bit more of an edge. And it wasn't just a, hi, yeah, please don't fire me.
Hi, hi, hi, hi. I'm so happy to be here.

Speaker 3 Like, there was, there was this, there was now this weird confidence, and this, um, I wasn't so meek anymore. Like, I had a chip on my shoulder, and I was ready to fight.

Speaker 3 And then things started to

Speaker 3 happen there. And, like, then I got on TV,

Speaker 3 one of the worst debuts of all time, off real.

Speaker 3 Oh, my God. Terrible.

Speaker 3 I came out there doing this stupid Irish jig and I can't Irish jig.

Speaker 3 You tried to dance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tried to tried it.

Speaker 1 They tried to do the Irish dance.

Speaker 3 They tried to do the Irish dance. Like as hammed up as possible.
Oh, man. Like shameless.
Just shameless. But like at the time, there was this

Speaker 3 girl, Emma, she was doing this wacky dance. And it was like, okay, well, like, wackiness is getting people on TV.
There was, there were just wacky characters left, right, and center.

Speaker 3 Because that was the thing about the developmental system down there.

Speaker 3 You got the chance to be wacky and you got the chance to try things and fail.

Speaker 3 And so, I failed epically,

Speaker 3 publicly, on TV, on TV,

Speaker 3 that lives on forever, that will never be erased from history. But hey, if you can come back from that, you can come back from anything.
Let's go. And so,

Speaker 3 the greatest part of it was like, I didn't even realize how awful it was until like a few nights later.

Speaker 3 And like, I remember seeing Triple H and being like, what did you think? As if he was like, oh, yeah, that was amazing.

Speaker 1 You dominated, yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the audience loved me.

Speaker 5 They were still, they were real positive to me.

Speaker 3 I think, come on, like, I was a little idiot. Like, I suppose you couldn't really boo me.
Like, God bless her. You know, what did she think? What was she thinking? Look at this fool.

Speaker 3 But yeah,

Speaker 3 and then I tried various different things. But I remember...
I remember after that, and then just having this different perspective and this gratitude that I was able to

Speaker 3 pay my bills and the food in my fridge was bought by the money that I'd made from wrestling and the roof over my head was paid for by the money that I'd made from wrestling and I was driving a car with the money that I'd made from wrestling and like I remember just driving with just tears of gratitude that I could afford these things with the money that I'd made from wrestling because it it

Speaker 3 I've never felt like money that I've made from wrestling is real money You know, it just doesn't feel like real money because I'm not working, you know Yeah,

Speaker 3 I'm having fun. I love I love what I do.

Speaker 3 I love what I do. Wow.
I love it. I love it and sometimes

Speaker 3 and sometimes it's hard and sometimes

Speaker 3 There's so many opinions and there's you know like our wrestling fans. They're so vocal and they're so great.
But, you know, you take the good with the bad.

Speaker 3 So sometimes you're getting lots of negative opinions on what you're doing, or you're getting,

Speaker 3 and so, or you, or you think creative should be this way, or you should be booked that way. And so you can get bogged down in those things.

Speaker 3 When it comes to the creative process, and I'm putting together a match, or I am thinking about a promo,

Speaker 3 I don't think there's anything bar like playing with my child that makes me feel more alive. Like I just, I love it so much.

Speaker 3 And I love just like

Speaker 3 something coming to me and building from that. You know, just these little seeds of ideas.
Like, what if we try this? You know, what if we try this? Maybe this will work. And maybe it'll be awful.

Speaker 3 But that's the greatest thing about wrestling is that You, because we do it 52 weeks a year, because we're on the road constantly, you get to try and fail so often, but you get to try and succeed so often too.

Speaker 3 And you never know which way it's going to go, but if you keep trying, you know, sometimes you hit gold.

Speaker 3 Sometimes you don't. Sometimes you think something's gold and other people don't.

Speaker 3 But that's art, right? Like you do the art for what you want to do. And then whatever the audience takes out of it is...

Speaker 1 up to them. Big WWE fan, Rick Rubin, we had on the show.

Speaker 1 I love Rick. And he talks about what you just said, making art for you and writing in your journal, in your diary, the things that are meaningful for you, your art,

Speaker 1 not worrying what people are going to think about it, but having the courage to put it out there and allowing others to see it as well.

Speaker 1 That's like part of the process. Yeah.
And he's a big fan, isn't he?

Speaker 3 Oh, he's a huge wrestling fan.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. And his book is...

Speaker 1 It's amazing. Have you read it?

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's so good.

Speaker 3 Read it? Listen to it? Yeah, he's great. Yeah, and I love because I just like, sometimes I just,

Speaker 3 I'm like, okay,

Speaker 3 what do I need right now?

Speaker 1 Universe, tell me.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And then, of course, it's exactly what you need in that moment. I love it.

Speaker 3 But it is, it is that. But the other thing about wrestling, which is so different from any other artistic endeavor, like writing a book,

Speaker 3 you have it,

Speaker 3 you can take your time.

Speaker 3 You know, if you're writing a script or whatever, maybe like a movie or a song, if you have an album, but like, say, if you're writing a song, you can just take your time to do that.

Speaker 3 Resting, we don't, we ain't got time.

Speaker 3 Like, this show is gonna go live on TV. We gotta make it happen at 8 p.m.

Speaker 3 And if at 7 p.m. you don't have something, you better find something because we're gonna go live.

Speaker 1 Have you ever not felt like you were prepared before going live and having to come up with something on the spot?

Speaker 3 A million times. Really? Yeah, because now it's different.
But it used to be back in the day, the show would be getting rewritten while the show was going on live in front of people.

Speaker 3 So you would have like an idea of what you're going to say. And then somebody comes up and say, no, no, no, no, no, you have to say this.
Find a way to put this in. And so you're

Speaker 3 okay going out the curtain and changing things as you're going out.

Speaker 1 Yes. You have to evolve what you're going to say.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And sometimes, and that's happened like several times, but it's really exciting.

Speaker 1 It's scary, but exciting as a distance.

Speaker 3 Yeah, because it's chaos. Yeah.
And it's chaos. And so whatever comes out is great because you can't, it's just organic.
It's just in the moment.

Speaker 1 It's the ultimate yes and experience.

Speaker 3 Yes. I love it.
It's so exciting. So you don't know what's going to happen, but something's going to happen.
There's been so many times when I've had like.

Speaker 3 we're putting together a match, but we haven't had the time.

Speaker 3 And so like you're going out and you think that you have something, but you're not sure and you're not sure if everybody else is on the same page. But you go go out there and something happens.

Speaker 3 Like, something's going to happen because something has to happen.

Speaker 1 And based on what happens, they might rewrite the next thing and the next thing, and it just keeps evolving, huh?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Because you never go out there and nothing happens. Right.
Because that can't happen. Because that would be weird.

Speaker 3 You're like, people aren't just going to stand in the rain and wait to be told what to do.

Speaker 1 Someone's going to say something and hit someone and

Speaker 1 go on to the next person.

Speaker 3 And we're just going to go because that's what has to happen.

Speaker 3 So it's such a.

Speaker 1 They'll throw you out there. You just figure it out.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's such an exciting

Speaker 1 business. I told you, I've never been to a show, so I got to come and watch you.

Speaker 3 You got to come and watch you. You've got to come.
It's the best.

Speaker 1 I'm curious, when is there a moment, and you've had so many different matches over the last 10, 15 years? When was the match or the moment that you were in the most flow?

Speaker 1 That you felt like 100% authentic to you?

Speaker 1 That the words were flowing, the movement was flowing, like it was all connecting and the audience was connected to you.

Speaker 3 Gosh, I suppose there's several.

Speaker 3 Like recently,

Speaker 3 recently I had a match with Trish Stratus. It was a cage match and it

Speaker 3 just felt like, yeah, I'm so present. Everything that needs to happen is happening.
And that was back in September.

Speaker 3 So that's like, there's like these big matches that stand out. Because it, you know, it'll often happen on live events and different things.

Speaker 3 But there's these big moments, these big events built around it. And then, um, the match that I had with uh Bianca Belair, WrestleMania 38, one of my favorite matches, one of my favorite stories

Speaker 3 leading up to it.

Speaker 3 And I was the bad guy, and I loved it. I loved that.
I was having so much fun. And she was, she's this great athlete and this great baby face, and she can do everything.

Speaker 3 And I was getting to, because I'd robbed the title from her essentially like I'd I'd underhandedly beat her yeah and I was going to be able to give her back her championship she would beat me for it wasn't handing it over she would beat me for it but it was that you know her um redemption story and that was

Speaker 3 that was so fun to be a part of and then there was another match that I had in 2018 with Cheryl Flair as the last woman standing

Speaker 3 and that one stands out because I remember it being the first match where I felt confident in it, in the moment.

Speaker 3 I can do no wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 What year is this?

Speaker 3 It's 2018.

Speaker 1 2018. Okay.
I want people to get your book. It's beautiful stories, lessons

Speaker 1 about someone from really a small town, small country who was able to become one of the biggest stars in the world and all the different...

Speaker 1 life lessons and stories along the way, which are really inspiring.

Speaker 1 So I want people to get a copy of your book, The Man, Not Your Average Average Girl make sure you guys check this out by Rebecca Quinn really inspiring stuff and just some really cool stories in here that I think people will like whether you're into WWE

Speaker 1 or not you know again I've never been to a match but I thought all this stuff was fascinating so I'm coming one of these days I'm gonna be there I have three final questions for you Rebecca

Speaker 1 The first one is called the three truths. It's a hypothetical question.

Speaker 1 So I'd like you to imagine, if you can, a moment, that you get to live as long as you want in this world, but it's your last day, many years away.

Speaker 1 You get to pick as old as you want to be, but eventually you got to turn the lights off for yourself.

Speaker 1 And in this hypothetical world,

Speaker 1 you have to take everything with you. So no one has access to this book, our conversation, any piece of content that's ever been out.

Speaker 1 anything you create from this moment moving forward, it has to go with you when you leave. But on the last day, you get to leave behind three lessons to the world.

Speaker 1 Three things you know to be true and that's all you would ever be able to leave behind to everyone else. What would be those three truths for you?

Speaker 3 To believe in yourself.

Speaker 3 My dad said something and it's

Speaker 3 from the Bible but he misquoted it.

Speaker 3 And it's a quote that I use in this book too. And he misquoted it, but I like his version better.
And it's, if you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will complete you.

Speaker 3 If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will destroy you. Wow.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I love that. I love that.
It's essentially being authentic to whatever it is inside.

Speaker 3 And the other one.

Speaker 3 The third one,

Speaker 3 I will use the most polite language that I can. Just don't be angry.

Speaker 3 Just be nice to people. Be good to one another, you know? I think that's what we need in this world more than anything.

Speaker 3 And if you want an outlet for people not being good to each other, watch wrestling.

Speaker 3 Watch wrestling, where they're not being nice to each other,

Speaker 3 but it's agreed upon. It's contained.
It's contained. It's It's contained and it's controlled.
Because

Speaker 3 I think more than ever,

Speaker 3 especially in a world where negativity is a hot commodity, where the algorithm loves it, it is more important, where we thought that we left the bullies in the schoolyard, but we don't.

Speaker 3 They're online every day. They're constantly telling you.
They're constantly chirping in their opinions. I think we need more than ever just to be good to one another.
That's beautiful.

Speaker 1 I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

Speaker 1 Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links.

Speaker 1 And if you want weekly, exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker 1 Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.

Speaker 1 I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.

Speaker 1 And I want to remind you of no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something

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