Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant

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And so there's all these little, Google is just an algorithm. It's a robot.

And it crawls pages.

And so there's all these little data points that you could optimize to show Google we have the best and most complete answer.

And get above the guy in the Guinness next to you.

That's the other really cool thing about SEO I love.

It's not you don't have to have the best website in the world.

You just have to be a little better than the guy in front of you.

And a lot of times that bar is a lot lower than you think. What is up the science flipping family.
I am back with another incredible guest here at the science flipping podcast. If you are doing any level of marketing and you are feeling like the cost of your leads are drastically going up, especially for those that are doing

any level of PPC or PPL, you will want to listen to this entire episode because my boy Keith Sant from seomeatsrei.com is here. Keith, what is up, my friend? What's up, Justin? Thanks for having me.
Appreciate it. money at all on PPC or PPL.
Stay tuned because what Keith and I are going to talk to you about and what he does and he's an expert at is lowering your cost by about 90% and having just as qualified if not more qualified leads coming into your database. So Keith, let's talk first about that.
Talk to me about the SEO process and why would someone want to do that versus a PPC? That's a good question. So like why people would want to do it versus PPC? I don't think it's an exact replacement.
They could actually compliment each other because there's sometimes where like, hey, if you're like, I need to get leads like today, you're going to want to pay per click, Facebook ads, something to drive traffic today. SEO definitely is a long run or a long game.
Like I, and what I mean by that is I could typically get people leads within like three months and like they're closing deals by like four to six months for sure. And then everything just kind of snowballs after that.
Like it, you know, it might take you six months to go to the first deal and then you close another one and, you know, a month later, two months later and end up saying you're closing a deal a month for half the price, 10% of the cost of like pay-per-click. Well, the one thing I want to bring to light is someone myself who has spent, I'm guessing I've probably spent somewhere between half a million and three quarters of a million dollars on PPC.
And I'm probably closer to three quarter of a million. I will tell you the key and you know this, but the key of this audience is listening like, yeah, but I want leads right now.
Okay, fine. But if you're paying 90% more for leads right now, I would tell this audience, be a little bit more patience, have a little bit more patience for leads in 60 days or 90 days, because you're going to pay 90% less.
And that is a, it's a mind shift. Like they got to shift their mindset around all this.
Absolutely. And it's not, it's not easy to do for a lot of people.
I don't know, especially realtors for sure. Like they are, they're notorious for not wanting to put a lot of money into their marketing.
But, you know, real estate investors, like people just want stuff now, right? Instant gratification. But if you're willing to wait, it's huge.
And I'm not saying, hey, like I typically tell people like SEO shouldn't be the very first marketing channel, especially if you're new or like that's not the first thing you invest in. But, you know, let's just say your marketing budget's four grand a month or three grand a month.
Like, let's just say you put 500 towards SEO and 35 to the other, like a year from now, you wish you started today, even if you started a small budget and then you could always reinvest and work it or work your way up. But yeah.
Yeah, there's no doubt. You know, listen, again, someone who I actively market today, we market very heavily.
And, and I would tell you some of this goes along with the branding play. And I wanted to bring this up.
Because when you rank on Google organically, right, for those that maybe not know what SEO is, I don't want to make any assumptions, there's maybe someone on here listening this or watching this on YouTube. If you're not watching this, you need to go over to my YouTube, subscribe, and watch these episodes.
I have incredible guests. Let's take a step back.
Describe what is SEO? What is happening? Why is it? Did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving? Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway.
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Different than PPC, you know, because there's people that probably I'm assuming know, but maybe they don't really know the differences. Yeah.
So if you Google anything at all, right, you might see like a couple spots at the top where it says like ad next to it. AD, those are those your pay-per-click ads so you're actually paying for those to be placed at the top anything right below that those are your organic search results uh google's whole job is to put the best and the most complete answer in front of a searcher as fast as possible and so search engine optimization is basically showing google that we have the best and the most complete answer for the things we want to show up for.
And at the end of the day, Google is just an algorithm. It's a robot and it crawls pages and it determines, you know, and so there's all these little data points that you could optimize to show Google.
We have the best and most complete answer and get above the guy in the Guinness next to you. That's the other really cool thing about SEO.
I love it's not, you don't have to have the best website in the world. You just have to be a little better than the guy in front of you.
And a lot of times that bar is a lot lower than you think. You know, the cool part about SEO that maybe people think about, maybe they don't.
If I'm going and I search something on Google, right? The thing I love about it, and you already know this Google is intent based right where

Facebook is interest based so when you want to go figure something out you go to Google not Facebook typically what I love about it is I will see literally homeowners go search sell my house fast as an example, and they will like the top five six seven websites in fill out forms on all of them and if you have a good ranking in seo dude you don't have to pay for that once you get ranking good in any market or even before you ask like to get more leads in the same market having multiple sites is the way to go like i have like five different sites in my one main market and 14 sites total. One of my biggest clients, he's got 19 sites, all in the state of Texas.
If you Google a lot of phrases, he's like six of the 10 search results. I talked to him the other day.
He had a lady, got seven offers. Five of them were from him.
He ended up getting the deal because each one, hey, this is so-and-so. Hey, yeah.
So now the value in that, because I know some people are like, oh, I don't want to pay for the same lead twice. Like, oh, I'm working twice.
It's hard to get the same lead. And I would rather pay an extra 100, $200 or whatever, or $300 to get the same lead twice than to be getting outbid or bid up so high that I can't get the deal or the margin just shrinks so low.
I'd much rather pay $400 than be bid up $20,000 at the negotiating table, if that makes sense. Well, that's actually a really super ninja move that he's doing, right? Because like I just said, you see these individuals that literally will go down the first five or 10 people on the page and fill out all their forms.
Well, if you're the top five organically ranked websites, to your point, there's always gonna be the people that spend money on ads, right? Those have those yellow AD signs. Great, but you don't have to.
You're organically ranking, right? Your service, SEO meets REI.com helps them rank. You don't have to do anything.
And if someone fills out four of your sites, you have four opportunities to win the deal at no cost relative to these PBC people who are paying $350, $400, $500 per lead, well, your cost is so relevant, irrelevant to theirs, that why not give yourself the shot at actually getting the deed, not losing it, right? Because otherwise, if you were to go on PBC, as you know you're just gonna level each other up next you know 750 for the lead oh yeah yeah that's it like i remember when i first started because i'm an investor too like i do seo for people but i started on my own stuff and when i started pay-per-click back in like 2018 i was getting leans for like 150 125 you know it was it was awesome you do that all day long and then it went up to you know 300 and then four four you know like it kind of cooled down a little bit but like towards the beginning of last year it was like 455 100 elite in my in my like seattle tacoma market just for pbc years at yell yeah yeah pay-per-click uh ppc but i mean even some of the pp or ppl stuff too like you know people you know they bid yeah there's there's a lot of psychology and that but people just outbid just to be number one even if it doesn't make sense and i wish a lot i wish more people would do you know their their roads return on ad spend return know, what their actual cost per deal was from the different marketing channels. Because, yeah, you want to do more of what's actually working.
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Visit scienceofreverseflipping.com today and let's get those leads working for you. How did this all come about? How did you start SEO meets REI? SEOmeetsREI.com.
How did you start that? How did that come about? Yeah. So I started it, I was doing it on my own, right from my own websites i had a ton of people ask me um to do seo forum i would always send them to like you know there was one company at the time that i thought was probably the best out there at that at that time um i sent one of my biggest clients or one one client to him and after like a year with them like he still wasn't getting the results and i just noticed like a ton of holes and flaws and i'm like oh my god so like and i honestly like i i love this stuff i nerd out on this i'm good at closing deals i could close deals and negotiate all day long it's just at the end of the day like it drains my energy i'm like exhausted after talking to a bunch of sellers and buyers and all that stuff.
So like, I love doing that. Um, the SEO stuff.
I don't know why I'm a freak, but, um, so yeah, back two years ago, I actually stopped it. I haven't talked to the seller in like two, two years.
All my leads go to one guy. He closes the deals.
We split it 50, 50, like my websites are like assets for me. And then, yeah.
And so I've been doing SEO full time for people. people uh I didn't create an SEO company because I wanted to I just kind of realized like the world needed me to because no one out there was doing it right I feel like that's what most entrepreneurs right I have a totally separate podcast called entrepreneur DNA but a lot of times business gets developed because you have a value to the world that needs to be given.
And your calling almost becomes like, I need to give people this value that I can deliver for them, right? So I think that's a very common thread within entrepreneurship. So good for you.
And then you're able to continue your real estate business and have this. Talk to us a little bit about branding within this.
I know I brought it up and we didn't complete the sentence, but I really believe branding plays a big role in SEO, right?

Um, how do you view that, right?

Cause PPC, you're literally paying per click.

The brand is irrelevant, right?

Like they're paying, they click your ad.

It says, we'll buy your home fast. They say, great.
Sounds good to me. They don't care about the brand.
They just want to sell fast, right? Like they're paying, they click your ad. It says, we'll buy your home fast.
They say, great. Sounds good to me.
They don't care about the brand. They just want to sell fast, right? SEO is a little bit different here.
Talk to us about how the brand plays into ranking within Google. Yeah, absolutely.
I'll say this multiple times, but again, Google's whole job put the best and the most complete answer in front of a searcher as fast as possible.

But they want to put a real legit credible company to the top of Google, not a fly by nine website that knows how to optimize. And there's there's different ways that Google could say, hey, is this a real company? But yeah, your branding is super important.
You know, having having social media profiles is like really important. A real legit company would have a LinkedIn, would have a Facebook, would have an Instagram,

would have a linkedin would have a facebook would have an instagram would have you know these certain little things um the other really big thing that um that plays effect is people searching your brand name right because um that's one of the ways google could determine is this a real legit credible company because no you know it's not a real legit, credible company if no one's Googling. My company is like Kind House Buyers.
If no one is Googling Kind House Buyers each month, my website wouldn't do anything. If that makes sense.
Or it'd be very, very hard. So yeah.
If you're doing any other marketing, like let's just say radio or TV, those are way crazy. But, you know, even your postcards, putting your website or brand name on bandit signs, you know, definitely branding your Facebook ads, running a couple dollars a day on YouTube with your company on it.
Your Google display ads are another really good way for really cheap to get your company name out there and just be seeing a ton and to get people curious and they google your brand name and then that helps your seo and everything but yeah absolutely so let's just use the example i'm going to use myself as example so i run commercial ads in alabama and it's called justinbuysbama.com you would tell someone like I'm not currently doing this, you would say, Did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving? Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway.
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Excludes restaurants. A good idea would

be for you to hire us so we can run SEO for Justin Buys Bama because the reality is there's no one

googling justinbuysbama.com. No one even know that website exists until they see the commercial.
Make sense? So would you advise that that would be an actual good thing for someone like myself to be doing? 100%. Sometimes a brand is a lot easier than others, right? Like, like not Justin buys Bama is an example of one that's actually pretty easy because no one else there's only like one other guy i see like you know justin buys houses it's kind of on the same first page kind of competing with the brand name but like there's like there's like john buys houses and john medina buys houses and john buys your house and john buys bay area houses and there's like so i wouldn't even mess with a company name like that because you're never going to be able to rank.
Like you're, uh, none of the, I wouldn't mess with it. You know, if that, if that's your company name, it is what it is, but it's going to be harder.
Right. Um, you want, uh, kind of something a little unique and, and what that's going to allow you to do is you want, if someone Googles your company name to dominate as much of the first page as possible.
right? So if someone Googles Justin buys Bama houses, you definitely want to be, and you are right now, but you want to be above the Justin buys houses guy because you don't want to do marketing. And now all of a sudden they click on the wrong website on accident and you just paid for them to get a lead.
That's right. Well, and that's the point that I was kind of making why your one client is so brilliant because he probably has like the top five links, right? So they're going to keep going, and it's all him, dude.
I think it's really brilliant for him to do that, even though technically he might be paying you more because you're working on five websites, but who cares? The alternative is to go pay $700 for that lead that may or may not ever be a deal. And at least you're surrounding the top, you know, five spots on the page.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Even with him duplicating leads, I just talked to him a couple of days ago, he was showing me all of his numbers and he's getting, you know, cost per deal is like $2,500 with SEO. And he still spends $30K a month with Pay Per Click.
And that's $4,500 a deal. So it's literally in half.
And the longer he does it, the cost was actually way lower. But then he added a bunch more sites.
And so that front-loaded a lot more. And so his cost per deal went up.
And now it's going down even more again. It's going to be under a thousand here and then at six months or so.
Well, the thing that I always preach in terms of marketing is like, you can't be a one trick pony. So there's a lot of people out there that are like only doing PPC.
That doesn't make any sense. Like in a minimum, they need to be using your service minimum.
They're already directing everything to Google, right? They're paying Google to drive leads into their data. So why not have more of a presence? So I would tell anyone out there, if you're already doing PPC of any sort, big or small, you need to be going to SEO meets REI.com and speaking with Keith and his team because don't be a one trick pony at a minimum, right? But I also tell you guys, if you're out there doing direct mail, this is a great, to your point, Keith, like how many of your clients are actively using direct mail and leveraging that marketing piece to push into a website that you're working to organically rank? The ones that are, are doing really well.
Yeah. They really are.
Yeah. What is, in terms of your clients, what are some of the better clients? Like, what are you seeing them do well that maybe some of the other clients shouldn't be doing? Definitely that very, you know, getting those brand searches up, Facebook ads are another really good way to do that.
Right. Like, and you mentioned like you wouldn't do pay-per-click.
I wouldn't do pay-per-click without also doing Facebook ads like at least the retargeting because you spend like 90 bucks a click sometimes 120 bucks a click these really expensive clicks and like the person doesn't fill out the form like right then at that moment like you want to be able to go back and like retarget that audience and like my cost per lead on the retargeting on the pay-per-click on the facebook stuff is like 50 bucks a lead uh in the same market and So you're just basically picking up all the last little bit of juice from your expensive pay-per-click budget or your expensive direct mail or anything else you're doing. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, listen, this is an and for probably everyone listening to this.
If you're listening or watching this on YouTube, this is like an and for all of you, right? Even if you haven't yet. Now, let me ask you, Keith.
If someone hasn't yet got to the point of spending some decent money in marketing, wouldn't you even consider the person who's more of a newbie for such a low cost? Hey, utilize all your other resources, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and have your website on, let us work your website for ranking because you can use every other free resource you need to push into the website. Wouldn't you suggest that for a newbie? Absolutely.
And I don't know, I didn't mention it, but we do have a Facebook group too called SEO Meets Real Estate Investors. We teach a lot of this stuff for free.
I'm a huge fan of the underdog. We'll teach you how to do it for free.
I just do it for people that have more money than they have time so real estate meets real estate investors facebook group go search them out right is it closed or is it public oh no it's a public one you just click an invite or yeah yeah so as you guys are interested in the one meal more and how you can utilize this go to real uh seo meets real estate investors facebook group now do you guys post the website where would you suggest they get websites do you have someone to service it or would like a minute pages website work or what do you guys do like almost 90 or like probably 95 plus of my clients are on carrot um they're the best out there for, you know, websites for real estate investors. I definitely recommend them.
All of my sites are carrot sites. I'm a big fan of them.
We've worked on some WordPress sites too. I haven't played with a minute page or anything else.
But I mean, a website at the end of the day. A competitor to InvestorCarrot.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm sure.

Yeah.

And they function the same.

But the point being is like, I don't want people to overcomplicate this.

Oh, I got to go build a website.

And I got to go.

No, no, no, no.

Minipages or InvestorCarrot, there's ways that you can get a pre-templatized website that, Keith, you can work with, right?

And so the point being is people shouldn't be overthinking this too much, right? Your service really can help them do it. Now, you're doing it for them, right? They don't functionally need to do much, right? They get their website and they say, hey, you go get this website ranked, right? Yeah, I mean, I do both..
Like if they want, like I'll tell you how to do it and you go do it yourself or I'll do it for you. I mean, there's a ton that goes into like actually, you know, optimizing your site, right? Like let's say you get a stock, you know, minute page or carrot site, right? Like you want to make it different.
And there's, there's a ton of those, you know, those little things that Google crawls, that algorithm, you that algorithm you know they first they crawl your title right like a lot of people their their stock title is like you know sell my house fast alabama you know uh justin buys or you know justin buys bama and that's not that great of a title there's a lot of other you know like for instance i have three keywords in my title i you know sell my house fast in daps you know we buy houses dash cash on buyers you know and and that's just the title then you get in the meta description um you get in your headings are really valuable that kind of stuff too yeah yeah there's just all these little tiny things these and you know again you don't have to have the best website in the world,

just a little better than the guy in front of you.

There's tools like SEOquake, which is a really good free resources where you could look and see what your competitor's site looks like.

Just really quick snapshot and boom, are these things checked?

What's their density look like?

What's their title, meta keywords? Do they have alt text on their images how many images do they have you know etc and then you just make it a little better uh yeah well i was gonna say people like myself they don't want to know how the engine works they just want the car to drive right so that's the beautiful part you offer is like i would not want to think about a single thing that you just said i would, Hey, Keith, please help me just get this to be the best it can be. Right.
And that's how everyone really like in our space, everyone in the entrepreneur real estate investing space should really be thinking, that's not my strong suit. For most people, what you're doing is not their strong suit.
They should outsource it to someone like you. That's the reality, right? So that they can go get their next deal.
So they can work the lead. So they can make the offer.
So they can talk to the seller. Now, the other thing is, you may not have heard of, have you ever heard of lead detector.io, which is essentially a pixel that would sit on your website.
So when you're driving traffic, it'll capture another 20 to 30% of the data that people are visiting your website. I'd encourage you, if you don't know about it, check that out.
I think that could be a great resource for you, your clients, etc. But it just boosts the opportunities that you're going to have because it lays over your website and you can capture another 20 or 30% contact information, the direct contact information.
And so if you're already finding traffic, it's going to boost your traffic. So that would be another thing that I would tell you could be a key thing.
Yeah, no, I agree with what you're saying. Like, hey, I wouldn't, you know, like, I never want to know, like, exactly how to drywall a house, but I'm going to want to know.
So that way, I know that my drywallers are doing a good job. And the thing with SEO is that it's so foreign to a ton of people that they just hire whoever.
And then that's where I come in because they're hiring all these people that say they're the guru or the shit and they suck and they're not actually providing any services. So I like to kind of show people that I actually know what I'm talking about just because then they know, hey Keith is Keith knows what the hell he's talking about I know I'm not gonna do all that because it's probably way over my head but I know he knows what what's going on and like he's the guy well here's the thing that you know you bring to the table for everyone your clients you're a real estate investor yourself This was born out of you doing it for your own business.
And I think that's a huge, huge value for you listeners right now is to understand Keith does the business still. He's not just some SEO dude.
He's a real estate investor. And I'm a big champion, a big champion for my community, meaning the Keiths of the world who don't just turn into some data guy and this is all they do now is they functionally developed something from their own business, creating value for their own business and created another business from it.

But he still runs the tried and true business of real estate.

And so that's a big value for a lot of your clients is you know what to do. You know what you're looking for.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Absolutely. I would tell all of you at minimum, just pure minimum, go to his free Facebook group, get more educated, right? I think, you know, to Keith, your point, you and I don't necessarily know how the engine needs to run.
We just want the car to go, but to understand it a little bit would be valuable, right? SEO meets real estate investor, the group on Facebook, uh, the website SEO meets realestate investor.com or SEO meets REI.com. Um, that would be huge for you guys to just talk to his team.
I would assume if they go to the website, someone from your team would be able to have a conversation with them. Oh, yeah.
I say book a call with me. I'm the guy.
I'll be on the call with them. Yeah.
Answer any questions. Show them results, clients, what to expect, prices, all that stuff.
Talk to me about what's one of your better clients doing this year. How have they done this year? I mean, I got one guy that's just insanely crushing it.
But again, he understood the value and put a ton of money into it. He's spending like 20 grand a month.
With just me? With just me across 19 different sites right now. Wow.
No, he does another 30 in pay-per-click plus other stuff too. But again, he's done like 1.6 million in assignments and everything.
This year to date, he's been with me a couple of years. Last year, I forget the numbers last year.
Yeah. But yeah.
So even though he's spent a ton, like his ROI is like insanely high and way better than any of his other marketing channels. Like a typical, like another guy got another guy like out of kansas city he's getting like 90 leads a month right now uh yeah and he's been with me a while so that's the other cool thing about seo well the other part of seo are backlinks right so you dial in your page better than the guy next to you that's what i do with like the website build or i teach you how to do and the other part of get more backlinks than the guy next to you.
That's what I do with like the website build, or I teach you how to do. And the other part of get more backlinks than the guy next to you, that's typically a little harder.
Most people like that. They definitely probably want to hit me up because you could get backlinks that don't work.
You could execute it wrong. It actually hurt you more than help you.
Uh, this guy actually, you know, did a bunch that didn't help him. Uh, He hired like 2022 i redid everything he's spending like three grand a month in in backlinks we redid his website he's doing three grand a month about it literally a year a year ago i hit him up i'm like nick you're crushing it you're like ranking number one for everything in your market i can't get you any higher on the site like i if you want to add another site i can but or if you want to expand your site and go out into multiple states so we can do that too but otherwise like you don't have if you don't have to keep spending three grand a month on backlinks just for the sake of spending three grand you could do like 500 bucks a month and just maintain your rankings which he's done and now he's still getting 90 leads a month right now which is insane and like there's no other marketing channel like that and so he finally we just did a second site for him and now he's starting he just got his first like in-city lead a couple days ago but also got a bunch of you know the surrounding blue springs olay all the other little cities too uh but that's the cool thing about seo even my site too that i started back in like 2017 2018 i only put like you know i got like 90 leads on it this month and I only put like 500 bucks a month on that because I already did all the hard work.
That's right. But it is one of those things where, it's like if you bought a rental, right? You got to post the money into it, fix it up.
You get a renter in there. It's going to be a while before you actually hit hit that break even point and you get your money back.
But then next thing you know, you're like, I'm cash flowing and I have appreciation. This is amazing.
Let's do it again. But in the beginning, you're like, Oh, when are we going to get my money back? Kind of thing.
Typically I've seen people spend anywhere like 10 to 15 K just before they close their first deal. Like sometimes with SEO, just straight up.
Like, but some people close a lot less, you less. I'm just saying.
But even on the highest end, they spend 15K. They close their first deal.
That typically pays for itself. And now their next deal is...
You said something that's so key. I want everyone to go back and rewind this one point, which is you need to have marketing stamina.
If you are going to get into the marketing game, don't have this unrealistic expectation that in the first 30 days, you're gonna spend this money, you're gonna get a deal, you're gonna make money, you need to be able to have a runway. And the runway to me is really six months.
It's not 90 days, it's six months. So regardless of whether you choose SEO or anything else, if you start to work with Keith, you need to understand based around the conversation of Keith, you need to run that for six months period at the minimum.
And then you can assess what has happened, where are we at, what is going on, what does it look like, and make decisions moving forward. But anything less, you're just not doing yourself any justice and you're gonna quit too early.
And it's that age old, you know, three feet from gold, right? You're going to be right there and you quit because you had this expectation that it would have happened earlier. So you quit, you could have had a hundred thousand dollar deal as your next phone call, but you stopped, right? 100%.
Absolutely. I greatly appreciate you coming on, man.
I think everyone needs to know more and believe more in SEO, and you're that guy, right? Keith Sant from seomeetsrei.com, SEO meets Real Estate Investing, the Facebook group. Make sure you're connecting with Keith, his team, the Facebook group at minimum.
And brother, I appreciate you coming on. Likewise, I appreciate you having me, man.
Enjoy your day. And guys, if this helped you guys or you learned something and you like this, make sure you share it with at least two of your friends.
We'll see you with another great guest on the next episode. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families.
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