5 Direct Mail Tactics Every Investor Should Know | Justin Silverio

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Speaker 7 While supplies last, selection varies by location you know direct to seller marketing it is a critically important piece of any real estate investor's business right to get deals really you can't find them online um you know on the mls anymore so your ability to get deals in the door that is what makes a business if you don't have deals coming in you don't have a business and we really

Speaker 7 perfected the direct uh mail aspect of off-market um marketing.

Speaker 8 What is up, the Science of Flipping family? Welcome back to another incredible episode. I have a personal friend of mine for over a decade who is a guest on this show today.

Speaker 8 You're going to want to pay attention because this man has been an investor for 13 years. He is the founder of Open Letter Marketing and Invelo, and he has found a way.

Speaker 8 The key is he has found a way to get more sellers on the phone with them at a higher conversion rate to get on the phone and has put together the processes and systems so he can talk to more homeowners to get more deals.

Speaker 8 And he now has been able to systemize it so you too can use exactly how he's done that for his own business. Justin Silverio is here.
What is up, my friend?

Speaker 7 What is up, Justin? Thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it.

Speaker 8 That's it. Justin and Justin show.
Let's go. This could be a whole new podcast.
We could see just a whole new podcast.

Speaker 7 Let's do it, man. Let's do it.

Speaker 8 So talk to me about this. Like, as real estate investors, you know, you and I both know there's been this wave of direct mail.

Speaker 8 And, you know, when I started, you know, direct mail was almost one and a half percent callback rate, almost two,

Speaker 8 blah, blah, blah. And you basically realized that people started to feel the pain because in your own business, you were feeling the pain.

Speaker 8 So you put a focus on this, which is how do I create more connectivity, right?

Speaker 7 Yeah, that's the biggest thing. I mean, when you're going direct to seller, you want to make sure that your money goes as far as possible and you get a really good return.

Speaker 7 So when I started investing in direct to seller marketing, I focused on direct mail. I loved direct mail.
It was very easy. It's a physical piece.
People can hold on to it, unlike other forms.

Speaker 7 So I wanted to make sure that I did something different and I stood out for my competition. And I did a huge look, like big picture of like, what could I do? What are vendors doing?

Speaker 7 What are other people marketing? And how can I stand out and be different? So over years, it took me a long time to systemize and understand.

Speaker 7 what's working, what doesn't work, how do I need to change it up to get really, really great results. And I started to see that my competition was kind of, I was just leaving them in the dust.

Speaker 7 And they're like, dude, how are you doing this? Yeah. So,

Speaker 7 yeah, systemizing was like a huge key for me to drive.

Speaker 8 Well, and you weren't, you know, you still aren't in like an easy market, right? You're in the northeast, right? And I'll tell you, there's not. Easy markets.

Speaker 8 I mean, that's kind of a falsity, but there are more difficult ones for sure. And your market is not easy.
So for you to figure this out in your own market, I mean, there's something to it.

Speaker 7 Yeah, absolutely. That was the biggest key is like, I just wanted to focus on one thing, get really, really good at it.
And direct mail was my kind of beast that I was kind of tackling.

Speaker 7 And, you know, it even starts with data. Even before I go to direct mail, it's understanding the data and making sure that that is really good in order to get the good response rates and deals.

Speaker 8 Now, he is the founder for all of you listening and watching. He's the founder of Open Letter Marketing.
You can look that up, Open Letter Marketing. It will be in the show notes.

Speaker 8 You can just go to the website, Open Letter Marketing. You will see what he has built, which is impressive.
So let's go back to direct mail. A lot of people,

Speaker 8 and you're in a lot of the same masterminds I'm in, will say direct mail is dead. What do you say to that?

Speaker 8 Exactly. Do you laugh? Because I know it's not dead.
It has changed, but it is not dead. Yeah.

Speaker 7 I think a lot of people that say that even, either haven't tried it or have tried it. but unsuccessfully because they're just not consistent with it.

Speaker 7 You know, all of the larger,

Speaker 7 the largest investors around the country are using direct mail and they get the large majority of their deals from direct mail, but it just takes consistency.

Speaker 7 That is the biggest number one rule of any marketing with direct mail included. Yes, it's more expensive.

Speaker 7 So people get a little bit nervous when they start direct mail and they're like, oh my God, it's expensive to do it.

Speaker 7 And then if they send, you know, two different touches and they'll get a lot of responses, they'll just like stop. And that's the worst possible thing that they can do.

Speaker 7 And that's why a lot of people just don't have a really good understanding if it can work or not, because they didn't give it a full chance. That's right.

Speaker 7 So, yeah, that's that's the point.

Speaker 8 Well, and I would also make the argument, you and I are big on KPIs and data because data can change how you move and how you market and what you should be doing.

Speaker 8 I'm going to make the argument, people just went into direct mail because people said coaches or YouTube videos said do direct mail.

Speaker 8 They didn't know what to measure. They didn't know what the hell they were doing.
They didn't know what to expect. I think the expectation part is just as important as anything else.
Yes.

Speaker 8 If you're expecting a 4% callback ratio just because you make that up in your head or someone randomly told you that out of whatever, and then you don't get that, then you're going to say direct mail doesn't work.

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Speaker 7 Yeah. Yeah.
And keep in mind, like, we're in an interesting industry, right? Real estate investors, they're not born real estate investors. They generally didn't go to school for it.

Speaker 7 They didn't go to school for business or like starting a company. They kind of fell into it, right? So they don't have this marketing mindset.

Speaker 7 And that's the biggest thing that I realize when we work with so many people around the country is we want to make sure that they have the marketing mindset first, provide really good expectations.

Speaker 7 We are not like order takers at open letter marketing.

Speaker 7 We want to make sure that people really understand what they're getting themselves into, how to set their expectations, what to know as far as marketing campaign, even before we start helping them with their marketing strategy.

Speaker 7 So that's kind of where we always come from is education and value first, get them to understand, and then let's dive in and create a plan specifically for you.

Speaker 8 Yeah. And so let's talk about like who would we want to target? Because the way I use Direct Mail is totally different.
And I've been with you for quite some time. We've worked together for

Speaker 8 seven, eight, nine years, right? With open letter marketing. Yeah.

Speaker 8 And so I vouch for this open letter marketing. That is why he is here.
He He is my guy, Justin and Justin. Anyways, I will tell you guys, well, let me ask you this.

Speaker 8 I use it in a very nurture sequence way these days. Right.
And so I do a lot of reverse flipping.

Speaker 8 And a lot of people have heard this where I'm finding individuals who are up against the wall financially. Like they have a foreclosure auction date.

Speaker 8 They have a tax lien foreclosure auction date. They have a reverse mortgage that, you know, essentially has overleveraged the home.
So I'm really targeting the financial pain.

Speaker 8 And then my nurture sequences is really how I'm personally using direct mail.

Speaker 8 What are you seeing people using it for? What would you even advise, you know, is some of the best strategies? Because there's not just one strategy.

Speaker 7 Absolutely. No, there's all different types of strategy.
And the strategy is not only what you're focused on and what your budget is.

Speaker 8 Right.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 there are a couple of different strategies as you mentioned. One is somebody that really wants to dive in and go all direct mail but has a limited budget.

Speaker 7 So there I say spend a little bit more time and energy on understanding your data first. As I mentioned before, data is critical.

Speaker 7 If you don't get that right, I don't care what kind of marketing you do, you're going to be wasting time or money. So make sure you get your data right.
And

Speaker 7 when people mostly know like list built, like pulling lists, right? Absentee lists, driving for dollars, equity, tax liens, all that stuff.

Speaker 7 My goal for, or what I tell people is generally pull the highest quality list that you can pull, like driving for dollars, tax liens, code violations, water shutoff, all of that stuff, and then, and then mail to it.

Speaker 7 And you want to mail to it consistently, consist consistently. Yeah.
And good numbers that I can provide to people that I've seen that actually really work.

Speaker 7 And if you're going to get started in direct mail, I'll give you some actual numbers.

Speaker 7 that people can take away and have a really good understanding what it means to them and how to get down to how much mail they have to to send and when they're actually going to start getting deals.

Speaker 7 So if somebody's new to direct-to-seller marketing, I say start off in an area, geography of about 150 to 200,000 in population. From there, start pulling lists.

Speaker 7 Again, absentee, equity, related party, like all of the top lists that most people have heard about.

Speaker 7 And if, I mean, I'm happy to share a list if you want to put it in the show notes too, all the different lists.

Speaker 7 From there, once they pull all those lists, they should get about 10,000 to 14,000 leads or records.

Speaker 7 From there, they want to like list stack, okay, or focus on those like really high, highly quality lists.

Speaker 7 So if you list stack and you're like, oh, okay, this person is on the tax lien list, an absentee list, and a pre-foreclosure list, right? That's a way better lead.

Speaker 7 than somebody that just owns equity in their house.

Speaker 7 So from there, you should get about 2,500 people that are

Speaker 7 over multiple lists.

Speaker 7 That is the list you want to start marketing to with direct mail. And if you market to those 2,500 over a six-month campaign, you will start getting deals right around the third to fourth month.

Speaker 7 That's what we've consistently seen. Now, you can get, you can absolutely get deals before that, but on average, around the third to fourth touch, you'll start to get deals.

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Speaker 8 That's really important that you said that because what I know to be true in our space, and I think in business, I have these five laws of success and my audience has heard me say it a lot.

Speaker 8 But the fifth law is remove your time expectation on the result.

Speaker 8 Or at least have someone who has been there and done that for a decade let you know what the proper expectation is.

Speaker 8 Because people come into our world and they say, Justin, I heard your podcast with Justin Silverio and I'm going to open letter marketing. I'm going to send mail and I want a deal in 30 days.

Speaker 8 And we go, oh, no, you're going to quit. Yeah.
Right. You're going to, you're going to blame me.

Speaker 8 You're going to blame open letter marketing because you have a totally improper expectation on the result you should be achieving. Correct.

Speaker 8 Now, the proper expectation would say 90 days or a little bit longer. That is when that first deal should start to be coming about.

Speaker 8 Now, I will tell you as a coach, that still means you need to understand how to properly analyze the deal. It still means you need to be able to actually make the offer, right?

Speaker 8 It still means you need to get on the phone with these sellers. So there's still a lot of caveats that people will blame me or you, but it's not us.
It's them.

Speaker 8 So you still got to do the thing to get the deal.

Speaker 7 And that's what I was going to say.

Speaker 7 The other piece, if you're new to investing, just like you and myself too, when we got started, I'm sure just like myself, you missed on deals and opportunities because you didn't even see it.

Speaker 8 Right.

Speaker 7 When you got started, so you will absolutely, no matter how you get started in real estate, you are going to need to build that kind of knowledge base.

Speaker 7 And you're going to be missing opportunities as they come along. I missed dozens and dozens.
One, I didn't know what questions to ask. I was nervous on the phone.

Speaker 7 I didn't know how to analyze the deal. I didn't know how to do comps.
I didn't know how to do rehab estimates. There were so many different things.

Speaker 7 And I only had like one tool in my toolbox to make a deal.

Speaker 7 And then, you know, my competitors, they're much more versed in what they were doing. So they could pick up the deal before I could.
So that is 100%

Speaker 7 an important piece that people need to understand is like, I can probably, you and I can probably pick up deals like really easy and quickly.

Speaker 7 Somebody new, though, it's going to take them a lot longer, but they're learning through that education when they start.

Speaker 8 So let me know, how did you get educated? Where did you hear about investing and started learning from the summit stuff?

Speaker 7 I think I started it. I think I started seeing it on like TV, like HGTV.
Sure. And I got interested.
And my father was a contractor. So, and I knew numbers really well.

Speaker 7 So I was like, oh, let's team up. And then I spent hours on Bigger Pockets, reading blogs.
And dude, you were one of the first podcasts I've ever listened to, which is so cool for me to be here today.

Speaker 7 I mean, that was like 11 years ago. And you're one of the first podcasts I listened to.

Speaker 8 That gives me shivers, dude. What a full circle moment for me.
And I really appreciate you sharing that because you're now on the podcast that you started listening to 11 years ago. Yep.
It's amazing.

Speaker 8 How cool is that? I just find that to be so cool, bro.

Speaker 7 Yeah. I was thinking about it today.
I was like, man, I remember listening to his podcast a long time ago. Yeah.
I was driving back and forth to work, being like, man, I got to quit my day job.

Speaker 8 So now you built, dude, you built an empire. I love it.
I love it. Well, so let's kind of get back to maybe some strategy here.
You talked about list stacking.

Speaker 8 Where can they go to like, some people understand what that is, but they don't know how to do it or what to do.

Speaker 8 Where can they go to start to figure out how to list stack or what services can they use for list stacking?

Speaker 7 Yeah, good question. And that's actually, you know, another company that I started called Invelo, which is a CRM platform, because a lot of people, again, have that need.

Speaker 7 I always look at anything time I start something, I always look internally and say, hey, what can I create for myself to make it easier on myself?

Speaker 7 And then naturally, as I'm starting to work with more and more investors through my marketing company and offering it to them, they're like, this is exactly what I need, what I've been missing.

Speaker 7 So, Invelo is my other company, and basically a CRM list building platform that you can do list stacking and all of that. It's a true acquisition system.

Speaker 7 Okay, that is something that people can do list stacking on there. And we actually have a free plan, so they can sign up for free on that.

Speaker 8 And they just go to invelo.com?

Speaker 7 Inveloapp.com.

Speaker 8 Inveloapp.com. Yep.
Okay. Yep.
And so what is the functionality of Invelo? Like,

Speaker 8 give me a rundown of who should use it, who's going to best utilize it, whether it's Experience or Newbies. What are the things that it actually does?

Speaker 7 Yeah. So

Speaker 7 I'll give you the core elements of Invelo. Again,

Speaker 7 Invelo, we designed it to be an acquisitions platform. So from the beginning of list building, right? So you can go in, you can find properties in a designated area.

Speaker 7 You can add in some filters, absentee, related, you know, vacancies, pre-foreclosures.

Speaker 7 You can find all types of properties and you can bring those into your prospects database your prospects database the whole reason for that database is to market to them okay to sort to analyze and then to market to them outreach okay and then as soon as somebody uh calls back or reaches out to you say hey i'm interested now we have a leads pipeline So the leads pipeline is where your acquisition team is going to be spending their time, making sure they're following up on leads and then converting them to deals, which then would move over to the deals pipeline.

Speaker 7 And then you can manage your deals whether you go through either rehab or you're renting it. So it manages the deal side.
And we have marketing within the app and skip tracing and all of that.

Speaker 7 So it's truly like a beginning to end and lots of KPIs. So we're actually launching Invelo 2.0 in January, which is super exciting for us because it's really going to blow up the system.

Speaker 7 And the KPIs and the analytics that we're going to be able to provide users is just like no other system is going to be able to hit on that. So that's another important piece that is unique to us.

Speaker 7 That's incredible.

Speaker 8 And so is there a way to kind of use both like the direct mail component with Invelo?

Speaker 7 Yeah. So the cool thing is Invelo has everything that open letter marketing has in it.
And it provides so much flexibility and customization in there.

Speaker 8 So ultimately they could go to Invelo and kind of have a one-stop shop where they can send the direct mail, they can track the leads, they can list stack, they can absolutely do everything with inside Invelo.

Speaker 7 Yeah, so so many people have different ways of doing things, right? We deal with many people that have their own CRM and they don't want to go to Invelo, which is which is perfectly fine. Sure.

Speaker 7 Open letter marketing is perfect for anybody that just wants to do direct mail with us. Okay.

Speaker 7 Invelo is someone that wants to CRM everything, CRM, direct mail, marketing, all that stuff in the platform.

Speaker 7 So those are the two kind of systems. And then to your point, you asked like other strategies.
One other cool thing that we designed, again,

Speaker 7 where I don't want to, I'm not trying to confuse people. I just want to show them the options.
We developed Open Letter Connect. So we just actually launched that a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 7 Sorry, a couple, a few months ago. And what that does is basically it connects directly into any software, website, any platform.
So for you, doing reverse,

Speaker 7 reverse

Speaker 7 flipping, right? Yeah.

Speaker 7 So so if you're like hey anytime there's a new pre-foreclosure in my area i want to hit them i want to send a direct mailpiece just immediately just quickly so what we actually just did for one of our customers um they're using another crm platform they're like hey anytime a new pre-foreclosure hits i want you to trigger an automation through like Zapier and send it to your open letter connect open letter marketing connect um sorry open letter connect and automatically send a mailpiece oh a one-off mailpiece.

Speaker 7 So that's great.

Speaker 8 So you get notified. So, cause I do reverse flipping, right? So there's usually a lot of financial pain.
So if something is a short sale,

Speaker 8 whether it hits the MLS or not, I don't know. I mean, I guess that's the back end, the secret sauce, but it notifies me, hey, new short sale in the area you want it to be.

Speaker 8 And then I can say, yes, send the letter. And it'll send a one-year-old.

Speaker 7 So you don't even have to send anything. It just does it automatically.

Speaker 8 You set it up automatically.

Speaker 8 Yep.

Speaker 7 So you can even set it up if you have different areas and you have like like different mail pieces based on like you have some in Florida or some in like Arizona,

Speaker 7 we can send different mail pieces based on where their location is. So they're getting the proper mailpiece.
And that's completely automated. You don't even need to touch it.

Speaker 7 So we're getting into those integrations too, because a lot of people have their own platform, but they have a huge need for automating direct mail. So we just create it for everyone.

Speaker 8 That's amazing.

Speaker 7 Yeah, super, super cool.

Speaker 8 Of course, especially for for someone like me that is very niche down into like, I'm looking for financial pain, tax leaning, short sales, pre-foreclosures, notice of defaults, that kind of stuff,

Speaker 8 violations, all that. Like that actually could be a game changer for sure.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 8 again, kind of going back to this structure of like

Speaker 8 utility, what would be the best utility for someone listening to this right now to say, should they maybe go to open letter marketing?

Speaker 8 Should they maybe just go to Invelo since it's essentially open letter marketing kind of is built in. It is free right now.
My assumption when you launch 2.0 probably won't be free.

Speaker 8 So for all of you out there, you might want to get

Speaker 8 it now.

Speaker 8 Inveloapp.com, right, is free. So I would highly suggest that.

Speaker 8 But what is the best utility? Like if you were in front of a group of a thousand investors, what would you tell them to do right now?

Speaker 7 Yeah,

Speaker 7 I'll make it really easy. So open letter marketing is going to be perfect for somebody that just wants direct mail and they want to work with a marketing coach.
Okay. We have marketing coaches.

Speaker 7 We do real estate education. So anybody on the phones understands strategy.

Speaker 7 So if somebody's new or just wants that hand holding and just want direct mail and they're doing more bulk marketing, then go with open letter marketing.

Speaker 7 For those that just want, you know, maybe it's just automation, like we were talking about, and zero minimums, lower, you can do one-offs, and you want that integration piece, open letter connect.

Speaker 7 And then as somebody that wants everything, CRM, direct mail, like list building, all of that stuff, that would be in Velo.

Speaker 8 Got it. And so the list stacking, let's talk about that because I think that is heavily important.
I think after years of doing direct mail myself, I mean, probably the better part of a decade.

Speaker 8 Understanding who you're targeting. There was a moment where I would spray and pray, right? I would go send 50,000 mail pieces to anyone in zip codes, like literally anybody.

Speaker 8 We would pick the zip codes we wanted the properties in the most. We sent it to everybody.

Speaker 8 It worked for a time, right? But then there's kind of this like diminishing return scenario, right? Yeah.

Speaker 8 The list stacking, I think, is really pivotal, especially if you're actually trying to find motivation.

Speaker 8 Or in my case, I don't reverse flipping, I'm actually not even looking for motivation because these people are over it. They're losing the home.
There's no more motivation left, right?

Speaker 8 So let's talk to some of your clienteles.

Speaker 8 Like, what are some of the lists or list stacking that you see your clients are really heavily diving into because i don't think it's the 50 000 mail pieces spray and parade anymore yeah i think it is niched down 70 mail pieces at a time to this one list for six straight months what are you seeing yeah so it different people have different requirements right the larger operations that are doing a couple hundred like real estate deals a year they're going to actually need to go really wide so they're the spray and parade yes they got to be able to cover everything yeah they do niche it down a little bit but they can only do so much because because they actually have to spend a lot of money to get all those deals coming in.

Speaker 7 But for most people, again, going back to that example that I gave you is pulling those different lists. So most of the lists you can actually pull right inside of Invelo.
Got it.

Speaker 7 And then the lists that you're going to pull outside of Invelo are usually at the county,

Speaker 7 right at the county level for like tax liens,

Speaker 7 water shutoff, fire houses, that sort of stuff, driving for dollars. And then you import it into the platform.
And again, again, you um, you list stack.

Speaker 7 So, I was always a big proponent of never spramp prey, right? I always wanted to know I am going to spend a lot more money on my high-quality leads and much less money on my low-quality leads.

Speaker 8 Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 7 So, I would spend and I would hit them, uh, the high-quality leads really hard with letters and postcards and all that. And then my low-quality leads, I might just send a quarterly postcard, right?

Speaker 7 Something very easy. So, I'm spending most of my money toward those high quality leads.
And that helped me to significantly increase my ROI over the years.

Speaker 7 And I started to see a lot of people niche down starting around COVID when COVID hit. People started to adjust what they were doing and not go so crazy with direct mail.

Speaker 7 Also, because of the USPS like increases over the years, people have started to really take this on.

Speaker 7 What I mentioned is really focus on their highest quality leads and they're seeing a better return on their spend.

Speaker 8 What are you suggesting? I know that you already pre-built a lot of mail pieces in there. Is there like a best performing mail piece?

Speaker 8 I know, you know, people talk about sending UPS envelopes or like UPS envelopes, right? So you might spend a little bit more because your open rate goes up. What are you suggesting?

Speaker 8 What are you seeing people doing with success?

Speaker 7 Currently, there's two products that are really working extremely well right now. One of them is the Snap Pack, which is basically, you know, those tear away

Speaker 7 packets. So those are working really well with an offer inside

Speaker 7 and a postcard that actually has an offer on it.

Speaker 7 So we have an offer system in basically all of our, in open letter marketing, that if you give us a list of properties, we can ask you what percentage of estimated value do you want to offer them.

Speaker 7 So you put in, you know, 60%, whatever it is. And then we would come up with those estimated offers and we would put that into the postcard.
That's actually getting really great responses.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 7 But even further to that, my big thing is if you want a true direct mail strategy, it's not just the one-off as we were talking about.

Speaker 7 I always look at direct mail as campaigns, okay, multi-touch. And you're almost forming a conversation with the seller.

Speaker 7 So on the beginning of the conversation, you provide very little information, just get those people curious and calling you.

Speaker 7 And then over time, as your campaign goes on, you provide a lot more information and feedback.

Speaker 7 So that campaign could look like, you know, a postcard, handwritten letter, trifold flyer, offer postcard,

Speaker 7 professional letter. So even the different touches and the different product types that we're sending actually curate different responses from different people.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 it all is based off of investment strategy, how good are the leads, how much you want to spend and all that, that we actually come up with a true marketing campaign. And that's unique to us.

Speaker 7 Nobody else does those campaigns.

Speaker 7 That's why we do the multi-touch.

Speaker 8 This is what I think is really important for people to also understand. And you kind of glossed over it.
Multi-touch

Speaker 8 is, is there's no way if you send one group of mail pieces out, a thousand pieces, name the number, that you're going to get very far.

Speaker 8 Because what you and I both know is we're working in an event and timing scenario.

Speaker 8 We need to hit them at the right timing when they're going through that event that creates the motivation.

Speaker 8 And if you send one mailpiece and no one calls you, it's because they don't have either of those on your side.

Speaker 7 That's right.

Speaker 8 Right. They haven't hit the event and it's not the right time.
So they're not going to call you.

Speaker 7 I see.

Speaker 8 And I want to really impress upon people: the secret sauce alongside of the offer postcard, alongside of the rip envelope, is consistency.

Speaker 8 Consistency, six straight months of banging the same people.

Speaker 8 Because again, you are dealing with someone who may not have an event today and they got your mailpiece but in two weeks something happens let's say a hurricane

Speaker 8 and they say i can't fix this i don't even know what to i'm gonna call this guy he sent me a mailpiece two weeks ago and they send they call you because of the mailpiece you sent two weeks ago that is the level of like consistency you need to keep at it because then

Speaker 8 You can find results. And it's discouraging because as a coach, I tell people this and they do one or two mailers and they're like, ah,

Speaker 8 this doesn't work, Justin.

Speaker 8 You send two mailers.

Speaker 7 Yep. I say the same thing, time and circumstance.
You say event, I say circumstance. Same exact methodology.

Speaker 7 And the great thing with direct mail and the thing that I love about direct mail that always would get me, gets me excited is when somebody calls you and you look in your list and you're like, oh, I haven't like, you know, I've been sending them mail for the last three years.

Speaker 7 Because like within the first couple seconds, it's like, oh, why did you decide to give me a call now? And then they take you through their circumstance that changed and that they need to sell.

Speaker 7 And you're like, oh my God, this is going to be a slam dunk. Those are like my best deals through direct mails when somebody calls back after you've been mailing for so long.

Speaker 8 It's,

Speaker 8 and so talk about

Speaker 8 what people should probably expect to be good budget. I think there's a lot of people out there like, oh, Justin, you're talking about 50,000.
No, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 8 Listen, I've been 17 years in the game. I've built a very nice business.
I have a real big marketing budget. But many many don't.

Speaker 8 So maybe start talking a little bit about like what would be considered an appropriate marketing budget.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I would say over, again, going back to those numbers, sending mail to about 2,500 records per month for six months, probably somewhere depending on the product that you're using, anywhere from maybe 5,500 to 8,000 if you want to go, you know, in the higher end stuff, because we have like real, real penned letters that are actually written by with robots and stuff like that.

Speaker 7 So probably around that range.

Speaker 8 In it that start a month or is that over the 90 days?

Speaker 7 No,

Speaker 7 over the six months.

Speaker 7 For six months.

Speaker 8 So even if they went high end, six months in, you're nine grand in.

Speaker 7 Yeah, probably something around there.

Speaker 8 Yep. Okay.
And don't quote us, right? You'd have to go in, go to Invelo and go through and, you know, obviously go choose what, you know, what you want to do.

Speaker 8 Do you want the rip thing, the rip envelope, obviously more expensive, et cetera. But I think that helps people understand that, right?

Speaker 8 Now, how I use it is I would encourage people that are already in the the business. So, if you're listening to this and you're active, I love direct mail for a nurture sequence.

Speaker 8 Maybe they've gone dark on you. Maybe, you know, you're not really moving the needle.
They've been in your pipeline for a while. I like the re-engagement.
I like the re-engagement factor.

Speaker 8 A little shock and awe, maybe. Maybe it is the actual offer on the postcard.
Maybe it's the

Speaker 8 rip envelope that changes it up, right? Because you got to get top of mind. And you know what? Your team calling every week, hey, seeing if anything changed,

Speaker 8 they get worn out by it. They go deaf to it, right? The audience goes deaf to it.
So you got to use direct mail.

Speaker 8 How are you seeing, are you seeing a lot of clients kind of using it in the same way I do?

Speaker 7 Yeah, so now that we have that, and that's the other reason we built that technology, Open Letter Connect and integration, is because there's no minimums, right?

Speaker 7 Every direct mail company has a minimum set. So you can only, you have to send a minimum amount in order to even use direct mail.

Speaker 7 But now we offer that one-off touch, and we're seeing a lot more people utilize that integration specifically for that, for the follow-ups with their leads.

Speaker 8 So, I want to get clear on everyone so everyone understands open letter marketing.

Speaker 8 If you're just like, I have my own CRM, I have my own thing, and I just need the best mailing system with the best postcards or letters or handwritten letters, then you just want to go to open letter marketing, right?

Speaker 8 You don't necessarily need everything else. That's that's the play.

Speaker 7 That's right.

Speaker 8 That's now how to now. If you need kind of the whole more robust CRM stacking lists,

Speaker 8 you need the direct mail. You need more of the, what I would, I hate to say it.
You probably hate me saying it, but like a business and a bot, like really everything

Speaker 8 put together. Then you want to go to an inveloapp.com, right?

Speaker 7 Yes.

Speaker 8 Now, why would someone go to Open Letter Connect? What is that third one and who would do it and why would they do it?

Speaker 7 That's purely all for mostly for integration. So if they want to integrate their own CRM and do like what we were just talking about you, like those one-off messages, very quick get out to

Speaker 7 send a mailpiece out to a seller, you can do all of that through an integration using OpenLetter Connect into any software platform. Even your website, right?

Speaker 7 If somebody goes onto your website, fills out a form, say, hey, I'm looking to purchase this or sell this property, you can trigger a one-off direct mailpiece to them.

Speaker 7 That's really like, here's an offer. that we can give to you, right?

Speaker 8 And on a side note, you should probably talk to Chris again about that because you know what we have on our websites i do so that seems like a very obvious win for you absolutely because we have a lot of members using it right

Speaker 8 um what would you like to maybe leave the audience with i mean i would tell you guys open letter marketing is a company we've been with justin for a decade maybe something close to that invelo is free right now inveloapp.com

Speaker 8 you know uh

Speaker 8 Version two is coming out next year. It won't be free.
So at a minimum, get yourself an account, right?

Speaker 8 inveloapp.com uh you have open letter connect maybe you already have a crm and you just want to do one-off mailing get to open letter connect but all in all i love direct mail because i find it to be the best way to niche down into actually direct communication right

Speaker 7 um what would you want to leave the audience with uh regarding all three of these systems and what you've been able to build out yeah and the biggest thing too is if if this is all confusing with all the different products just go to open letter marketing you know reach out to one of our marketing coaches.

Speaker 7 They're well versed on every single product that we offer. And again, our number one thing is value first in education.

Speaker 7 We're going to listen to the person that calls in and understand what they're looking for, and we can direct them anywhere like they need to go.

Speaker 7 So if somebody is just like, hey, just give me one place, go to openlettermarketing.com, go there

Speaker 7 or call one of our marketing coaches and they can absolutely help you out.

Speaker 7 The biggest thing is like, you know, direct to marketing, it is a critically important piece of any real estate investor's business, right? To get deals.

Speaker 7 Really, you can't find them online, you know, on the MLS anymore. So your ability to get deals in the door, that is what makes a business.
If you don't have deals coming in, you don't have a business.

Speaker 7 And we really

Speaker 7 perfected the direct mail aspect of off-market marketing. So if anybody has any questions with direct mail, I welcome them to reach out to us.

Speaker 8 Yeah. And make sure you look up Justin Solverio.
Direct mail is something that you need to have as part of your pipeline.

Speaker 8 I always say you got to be dynamic and you need to do that in how you acquire property, but also how you find the property in marketing.

Speaker 8 If you're using PPC, PPL, cold calling, texting, you also need a layer in direct mail. Don't be silly.
You don't have to spend $40,000 or $50,000 on it.

Speaker 8 You could do a 70-person list, very targeted, very niche. It could be very affordable.

Speaker 8 And so, make sure you're going to openlettermarketing.com, talk to some of their coaches, get educated, understand the systems. Cool.

Speaker 8 All right, dude, great episode. Really appreciate you.

Speaker 7 Thanks, buddy. Appreciate it.

Speaker 8 Right on. Well, if you got something from this, everybody, make sure you share this with two of your friends.
And I'll see you on the next episode with another great guest.

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