Why Speed Matters: The Role of Hard Money and Bridge Loans | Michael Iuculano

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All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. The deal is in the speed, right? If somebody's selling you their home or even their business, whatever somebody's using the money for that they need the money for fast, the opportunity often that they're getting is in the speed.
If I own a business and I business and I say hey Justin I want to sell you my such and such business and you're like holy shit that's a smoking deal I'm not going to come to you and say hey Justin I want to sell you my three million dollar business for two million dollars go ahead and take your time and close when you want right it's I will do this for this but I want this right like and i want it tomorrow what is up

the science of flipping family we are back with an incredible guest someone i've known six seven

years he is the hard money man michael yucolano is in the house what is happening not too much

man happy to be here in miami yeah by way of bokeh and scout stuff well you've been selling me on

bokeh you and nicole have been selling me on bokeh so it could be happening in obvious i'm familiar

I was going to be calling for. So make sure you reach out to Michael Uculano.
You'll have all of his information everywhere as you're watching this or hearing this. Spell your last name so everyone knows how to spell the same thing.
So it's I-U-C-U-L-A-N-O. If you're not watching this, he actually got closer to the mic just in case.
So let's talk about money. A lot has changed since COVID.
Yeah. You know, obviously, pre-COVID, just pre-COVID, everything.
I feel like that's the benchmark now. What has happened since COVID? So let's talk about how your world and hard money lending investors, how has it tightened up? How has it changed? Let's just like, what is the landscape looking like? So there's some cause of concern, you know, and anytime, you know, you're in a situation where it may be harder to sell a property, lending is going to fall suit, right? Harder to buy, or I'm sorry, harder to sell, harder to lend, right? If it's easier to sell, it's easier to lend.
And so that's kind of it, right? So people are looking at more stuff, more paperwork, more things like that. They want to know that they've got a quality borrower.
Someone's got the capacity to pay and they're going to do what they say. So as a lender, are you guys actually being a little bit tighter on intaking a new client? Is it just getting a tighter like i need more financials more history of fix and flipping or buying investment properties or is that still the same is it i i think every deal is different right i mean are you buying a home for a million bucks and putting 900 grand down will probably be a little bit more laxed than somebody who's buying a million dollar fix and flip putting 20 down and it needs 200 grand worth of work to then sell it for 1.4 or 1.5 million so the deal itself matters the deal itself dictates a fair portion of the route it's going to go and so you guys have a whole underwriting team beyond just yourself that yeah like cross verifies the numbers do make sense this is the right number this this is the right ARV.
And then you can kind of green light that loan. Yeah.
And I mean, we do more than just fix and blips, right? A lot of bridge loans, a lot of cash outs, rental properties, traditional loans, a lot of bank statement loans. So in terms of bridge loans, I think that's loosely used in my world.
People kind of say bridge loan. And usually in my world, what that means would be like, if I'm buying a hundred thousand dollar property and Michael's going to give me an 80 per 80%, you know, $80,000 loan, the 20% down would be a bridge loan from a private lender.
So a lot of people look at it that way in your world, what does bridge loan mean? So the, the real kind of original meaning of bridge of bridge loan um was really from i own and live or have this house and want to go to that house but i can't buy that house until i sell this house and it was meant to bridge the gap from a to c yep right um and you're right bridges is very often misty everything is a bridge. Everything is.
Anything that's not the first lien is now a bridge loan. Yeah.
At least that's how people, I think, hear it. Right.
That's what they think about. I mean, it depends on what seminar you went to and who came up with what and who found a solution for what.
But, you know, second position loans are not they're not the norm. I mean, if you have the right private investor who's got some money or enough money to do a deal with and for you good for you but we don't do a lot of seconds um that's not what I want I mean we've done them but they're like hey you know like we have one right now the house is worth 500k they owe 180 we're giving them a small 100k loan yeah for speed because they're buying another property and they don't want the second they just need the speed yeah so they're literally we're giving them 100k because it's well supported yeah they're gonna go do what they need to do with the money now yeah and then we're gonna refi them back into traditional uh for the 180 and 100 will be a basically a 300k loan uh to pay off the hard money loan and to go into a new 300K loan.
So a good example in my world. So, for example, I'm renovating a 19-door apartment.
It's already vacant, obviously. That's why I'm renovating the whole thing.
So a good bridge loan in my world, for people's understanding, would be I finished the construction on that. I'd go to you for a bridge loan to get it tenanted fully occupied performing then I could either go back to you and go get a long-term 30-year loan or I could go to a bank or wherever that's right you would bridge the gap between me finishing construction on the apartment and getting it fully occupied in that scenario yes because most of your traditional banks are going to want they want performance they want stabilization right so and and that's the general concept right the the the cheaper the money the cleaner the deal you want bank money you better be a bank borrower right and and so must your property right they're not going to give you and you can't write your own ticket you're not know, bank rates with a hard money process.
Right. Right.
It's time for people to wake up and realize this is the new age of lending. It's not write your own ticket or name your own terms.
Well, and especially, I think there's so many people up in arms about interest rates. I don't care.
I think you and I have been on the same page because it's not that big of an issue as long as you have a good deal. But where do rates land in the hard money world these days you know i know it's i get that it can be specific to the borrower and the asset itself but when you when the most common loans you're seeing right now where are you guys standing i haven't done a loan under like 11 and a half in probably a year and a half i would say right now we're probably 12 and north okay uh for true hard money i mean there's like some institutional type stuff that you know you might be able to see a little cheaper but nothing earth shattering or life-changing different no and none of that matters so for example i think i've bought i don't know 53 homes this year and i'm getting 11 percent yeah.
But if you said, Justin, mine's 11 and a half. I'm not like, oh, I can't use you, dude.
That's, if you said 12, I'm not going to. The point people need to understand is hard money for a reason.
It's not the long-term debt. Right.
I need to math out the equation to say, okay, if Michael's, let's just say 12% or 11%, and I'm going to hold that loan for six months or nine months, or even a year, God forsake it. Does it still make sense as the deal? And if so, then I buy the deal and I keep going.
You buy the deal, not the debt. If you're buying the debt, you're doing a sub two deal.
That's great. You know, pick, pick one, right? Like I think that's a great point.
You're buying the deal, not the debt. And if you are buying the debt, you're buying a sub two.
Correct. And that's great.
But then you don't need Michael. That's right.
So it takes you out of the equation, but it's a different structure, right? Because I also don't love sub twos for this reason. I'm now kind of stuck in that debt, right? I'm literally buying the debt.
That's what I'm essentially buying. And so if I need to bring 60 or 70 or 80 grand to the table, depending upon the deal or even more, well, I can't get that money back out.
So it needs to perform at a really high level because I'm literally buying the debt for the long-term point, right? So that money's stuck in that deal. So unless it's performing- Yeah, you're not going to, if you're buying 3% debt, you're never touching it.
So that money you just put in- Suck. Yeah.
I don't like this. So that's not my game.
I don't like now. Don't get me wrong.
A couple bucks here and there stuck in, but I want to make sure like I have a good five year return of all investment, right? So I want 20% return on the capital. I leave in a deal.
So if I leave a hundred grand in a deal, I want to get 20 grand back every year in net revenue in my pocket. So in five years, I'm back out.
Right. So you're playing with the house money at that point.
And in many ways, that's pretty solid. That's a great.
Right. But that's my model.
So I'm a little more conservative. But it's because I have the scars to make me that conservative, right? I mean, you don't get that conservative about always winning.
So what is, you do residential, you do commercial. I mean, give me the scope of kind of like, who are your ideal borrowers? My ideal borrower is someone who has a need for financing predicated on either speed, need for speed, a credit issue, and or harder to show income.
Or two of those or three of those or some variation of all of them yeah yeah I mean it depends right like we we do a lot of deals for very well qualified buyers that have opportunities where speed becomes the reason right banks can't move as fast uh you know I used to say this all the time the the the deal is in the speed right If somebody's selling you their home or even their business, whatever somebody's using the money for that they need the money for fast, the opportunity often that they're getting is in the speed. If I own a business and I say, hey, Justin, I want to sell you my such and such business, and you're like, holy shit, that's a smoking deal.
I'm not going to come to you and say, hey I want to sell you my three million dollar business for two million dollars go ahead and take your time and close when you want right it's I will do this for this but I want this right like and I want it tomorrow what can you help your borrower who's watching us listening to it what can you tell them to help you keep the speed because a lot of times unfortunately you're able to perform, it's the borrower who's watching us listening to it, what can you tell them to help you keep the speed? Because a lot of times, unfortunately, you're able to perform. It's the borrower who's not getting you a document or not getting the thing.
And you're like, dude, I could have funded this yesterday if you would have gotten me this thing. What can you tell them to help themselves get your money faster? I mean, the first thing it would tell you is it's funny you're saying this.
We had a client even yesterday, one of my sales guys was telling me about, and the guy's like, we told him when the deal would close, here's what we need in our needs list. And it's been about 10 days.
It took him five days to get us the stuff. So he messaged, he goes, where are we at? We're 10 days in.
No, we're five days in because you, we told you what we needed. You took five days to get it to us.
So no, we're not 10 days in. We're five days in.
So to answer your question, if somebody wants to do a loan, make sure you understand that this isn't a handshake deal. There's effort.
There's paperwork. There's title reports.
There's potentially millions of dollars. There's regulation.
This is not a pawn loan. This is not a a auto title loan and it's not a handshake loan right so wake up and realize what you're what you're looking for is going to require effort you know it's funny i've have so you know i have a coaching program i have a lot of people that are newer and their challenge right now and i'm and i think i have a solution want to hear your your thought on it sure their challenge right now is because they don't have the resume i do it's hard for them to get a hard money lender to give them the loan either in speed or a high loan to cost or something you know it's it's really challenging for these newer investors do you find that to be true for you guys because they're like i use companies i've used every company you could possibly think of um but it's because i've done this 17 years and i can say hey here are the last 53 properties i bought this year and they're kind of like oh got it here here's your you know what i mean is it challenging to work with a newbie i think it's funny i was just talking to my sales guys two weeks ago about this and it's like you know there's a lot of teachers in wholesaling and flipping and they say you don't need money and you don't need credit and that's true you can do it without money and credit but you can't have no money no credit and a shit deal okay so you gotta You least have an amazing loan what's that you're not gonna get an amazing loan when you have no money and no credit you're not gonna get someone to lend you like i get 90 money a new person who's never done a flip are you gonna give them 90 money unless they're stealing the deal again number three right it's some people are doing a deal to do a deal i just gotta to do a deal because my buddy did i got to do it because it sounds cool like if you submit shit shit in and shit out right so like there's just a lot of people forcing deals and i get it right now because the market i still feel like there's you know the sellers feel like it's 2022 and the buyers feel like it's 2008 so there's this huge line and some people are either undisciplined or not patient are trying to force deals because they have to do a deal they want to do a deal they're gambling they're not investing let's stay there for a second you said something i think is a great subject buyers think it's 2008 for sure i don't i know what's happening but most uneducated or less experienced about it But sellers think it's 2008 for sure.
I don't, I know what's happening, but most uneducated or less experienced by it, but sellers think it's 2021, 2022. How, and you're sitting in the middle.
Yes. How do you deal with that? I mean, most of the time when I am dealing with a deal on a purchase, it's already in contract.
So it's already kind of past that point for me and then if they're refis or cash out type stuff it's it's kind of irrelevant because it's uh it's not a there's no sale there's no buyer and seller at that point yeah um what do you think breaks first sellers or buyers who gives in and realizes someone's wrongends on what the intent of the buyer is.

If it's a, I want to buy it because I want my family to live there.

My wife is pushing me for it.

I would say in that scenario, the buyer gives in.

If it's seller needs to sell for, I got to move, we got to doubt, whatever their motivation is, then the seller.

But it's interesting because I think it's kind of a telltale sign right now with people having cheap money that if you're really selling right now, I really think there's a reason why. Yeah, motivation.
Well, you and I just talked about this personally, right? We were talking about getting our families together, whether it's in Boca and we'll both buy in Boca or we're going to – I'm going to move back to Scottsdale. But, like like you and i are looking for homes at the same time same price point is there anything for us i mean it depends on how uh picky we want to be or how um i mean i'm pretty picky at this point right like i want what i want when i'm gonna put multiple millions of dollars into a home like i want the thing i want at this point i'm to just, but like, there's just nothing even out there right now.

Right.

To your point, because if someone has cheap money and the home's a two and a half million

dollar home, they're probably not that overly incentivized to sell right now because they

got to go and get a seven and a half percent interest rate or seven or something.

And the equivalent price point isn't going to be as quality.

It's almost like you're, you're hoping to find, we're hoping to find somebody's second

home that they want to sort of.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

And that's kind of, you know, it's funny.

I also think that the point isn't going to be as quality it's almost like you're you're hoping to find we're hoping to find somebody's second home that they want to sort of does that make sense yeah and that's kind of you know it's funny i almost thought about going in calling for sale by owners on zillow and just going down the creative finance path with people say i'll overpay you i see you want two and a half i'll pay you three million i just I just need the terms. Lending is just terrible for me right now.
And just do it myself. Like, don't even rely on a realtor.
Don't like, just go find the home I want and find a way to make it work for me. Probably not a bad idea, man.
I mean, I think that's the market we're in. The funny thing is I think people at that level would be almost more responsive to, I would entertain it.
If someone me and gave me a multiple what i think i could sell my home for like right this moment i think i could list my home at 1.9 maybe two and get the number sure right um if someone came and said dude i'll give you two and a half just give me some terms i will yeah but how long would you do the terms. not that i mean how much how much is he putting down so it just depends on the terms that we negotiate but i you know um because i also know enough that i can go get another loan after what maybe do you know the is it six months i would be able to say someone's paying this no i can it's right.
It's right away because you, you've got a down payment, you've got a lease. So I can show the debt isn't necessarily my responsibility anymore.
That's my point. I think it's like a rental agreement.
Even though you, you still own the debt is still, you have a, it's like a rent or it could be a lease option. I structure a lease option.
Then I can genuinely show the rent and say, Hey, I'm going to go buy another home and i can get great terms let's talk about business real quick just because you and i've done this a long time and we have a lot of similar aspects of creating chaos in our own business you've been living now for 22 years i've seen iterations just knowing you six seven years from you know mutual friends in scottsdale and seeing you transfer over and now you have your own thing and you're a top producer. I mean, you were just crushing the lending space.
But I've also been able to see the iterations of you, right? We both agree. We're the type of personalities that we almost kind of create the chaos because it makes us push harder in business.
And I'm seeing you borderline redline in a great way, not redline in like you're out of control. I mean, I've never actually seen you work the way you're working, pushing as hard as you're pushing head down, building what you're really trying to build.
But I know that comes from a lot of kicking up dust and creating chaos. Yeah.
I think you get to a point where, you know, for many, many years, um, I had, you know, it's it's it's interesting I didn't even have my own assistant until about three years ago and yet at that point I had been in this business uh as a pretty high level producer for 19 years prior um and I just really started taking the scaling the delegation which I I don't even use delegation anymore. I use empowering, empowering, taking the empowering of others, uh, really serious.
And it's,

it's changed my entire business more. So it changed my entire mindset of what's possible.

What do you think you delegate or empower them? Like what have you realized now

you are giving that

responsibility on to others what has helped the most for you um i'll tell you the old tasks is it growing the business is it there's there's a couple of things from somebody who you know very well yeah that i kept getting in my head and he does that really well by the way yes and he said And, you know, of your man you know like amongst your buddies when you're younger dude you're a hustler that's awesome be a hustler hustler hustler it's great it's great to have that hustler heart right but in reality you're what you're really wanting to go to at some point is ceo yeah and that's really what i've been, right? So- Even going from the hustler to the CEO. Yeah.
And we've all heard it, right? Working on your business, not in your business. It's taken me a lot.
For someone who's either control freak or I gotta know everything that's going on, every moment, that was really tough for me to start even the process of going from hustler to ceo and i'm not fully there but that's that's where i'm going so i let me ask you that because i love it um i'm more in the ceo role now than i've ever been in my 17 years of doing this But it does come with a lot of other chaos if we're using that word, right? Because I mean, just in the construction side of my business, right? Like I'm not managing the contractors, right? So now I have a project manager who manages the contractors. Well, if something doesn't go right, then I have to get involved, right? So you're giving up that responsibility of your control, but then you don't have to go do it,

which the best part for you and me

is you and I know how to go create more money.

And if we focus on that and hire great people,

we'll build a bigger, better business,

we'll build a better infrastructure.

Have you seen a downside to it

as you're going through the journey

of going into the CEO role?

Not really, because I'm so tall vision on the outcome and the long term that it's like I have this tattoo, right? And it says to every adversity, there's an equal or greater benefit. So regardless, if something goes wrong, it's actually the opportunity for my team to learn um i've literally when things have gone wrong like we had some issues yesterday and i'm literally talking to cole about how i'm excited i'm like shit this just happened this just happened yeah it worked out great but you know what it's never going to happen again I think someone's going to learn faster from something that punched him in the face than something that handed him a check could you have solved this issue yesterday if if that person or the team wasn't in place and you were running it would that issue have popped up if you were already running the scenario wouldn't it popped up up? No.
Right. Because I would have dealt with it differently.
It never would have happened. But I love to just, like, my two words are handle it.
If they need my advice, I will 100% be there for them. But handle it.
Here's a book suggestion to listen to while you're doing this back and forth from Phoenix to Florida. Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell.
It is arguably the best book, business book I've listened to specifically in probably the last five to 10 years. It is incredible.
And he talks about one thing that is of note, the one, three, one rule. And Dan Martell talks about there's one problem, there's three solutions you need to come up with, and then there's one answer.
I like that. So he tells everyone when there's this problem, he says, come into the office.
What's the problem? And they say X. And then he says, great.
What are three options for solutions? Go think about it, figure it out, come back with the three. And then you will tell me what you think is best.
And I'll either think and agree or point out why maybe another option could be better. But you need to go do all the work.
Come back to me with what you think the best is. The 1-3-1 rule has been incredible because it allows them to actually, to your point, grow.
That's where you're going to have these people grow is because you're making, don't go fix, it's like parenting, right? It's like if you just always clean up after a kid, do they ever really learn, or do they just keep making the mess? Because you're cleaning up. My dad's going to clean it up again, right? So the same thing.
Give them the force of them to do it. It's rewarding.
I was even telling Nicole for my birthday and even something else, one of my guys got me a card. And it was the most heartfelt card.
Thank you so much for helping me. You've helped me grow as a person.

You've helped me grow as a man.

You've helped me grow as a, as a,

like a human.

Yeah.

And I'm like literally crying.

Like I'm literally like,

like for much of my life,

it was always about me.

Yeah.

And it's still largely,

I'm not going to sit here and blow bullshit,

bullshit and say,

I still like myself and growing. Okay.
And I'm okay saying that, Michael, but it's fucking cool to see that my efforts and skills and whatever the hell I'm doing are actually directly impacting someone else in a positive way, multiple people. And I never thought about that as much.
i never thought about that really ever before but to see it happening now i think about like every day i think that's cool to see or hear that season i am curious on what nicole has to say after we're off air but the reason why i think that's because i also was that personality and i was selfish and single for the better part of my 30s and and it served me well. And I got to be selfish.
I cared about making money and spending all the money and having all the fun. But there is that time where you start to realize the impact you make on others and what you can do for others is more important or just as important.
And the money starts, interestingly enough, my concern of money has lessened drastically.

Lately.

But I've made more substantially because my focus is on empowering and helping in developing others. And from that, I actually make more money.
Scale. And it will be very interesting to watch your next three years because I think you're right in that season of like hustler to CEO.
and as you grow into that, it's going to take a whole lot of new muscles that you don't have yet

because you now only care about your people and you don't care about the outcome. Right.
And that's tough, man, because you want to like, why didn't that deal go through? Why couldn't you get that loan? Or why didn't you know? But you're really like, okay, well that's a part of his growth. They got to figure out why that didn't happen.
And it's more of them. The other thing too, like I, I, I, it used've it used to be you'd be like okay i want to do this because i want to make a lot of money so this was for that right and in the past couple years it's been all about like the process like i'm addicted the pro like we just created two ridiculous crms we're not even done yet we're two months in on each of them and they're the most ridiculous crms yeah like all the programming and the intricacies like shit i don't even understand but i don't know either i'm with you they're my guys are like handling it right so um it's cool it's just i'm always wanted to be better right and um so it's it's more the process that i focus on i'll tell you the process for me sometimes going through that process like even right now we're two and Apple on Zid or whatever the hell it is.
And I'm like, you know, it's more the process that I focus on. I'll tell you, the process for me, sometimes going through that process,

like even right now, we're two and a half months in

or whatever the hell it is.

And I'm like, yeah, but I tell Nicole,

I'm like, oh my God, I can't fucking take it anymore.

I need like a reprieve from it for like three days, right?

There's no middle ground with me.

I don't like it.

I don't like middle ground.

It doesn't work for me.

What is, now a lot of people would make the argument right now, this shows your growth because I know the answer, now a lot of people would make the argument right now,

this shows your growth because I know the answer,

but a lot of people make the argument real estate is tough right now.

Have you made more money in the last 12 to 18 months

than you did in the 12 to 18 months before?

I have the biggest year of my career in 23.

Right.

We're not even done with 24.

But that goes to the point of I don't think real estate is tough are there separate challenges yeah but if you know how to work and you know what you're doing it's not actually that tough real estate is tough is marketing tough is i don't know is everything tough is he's making hats tough selling hats tough mean, everything is tough. Life doesn't go in a fucking straight line.
Everything's tough. Everything has its easier time or downtime.
What are you going to do? Do you quit? Go back to selling something else? I mean. What would you attribute to your great year in 2023? Is it experience? Is it the market? Is it Nicole? Nicole takes a lot off my plate.
That's great it's kind of like back to the people it's it's it's like her job is to handle the house like we came with this thing the other day it's like we're the C we're the CEOs of like our compartmentalization I use this okay so there's that circle on the left there's a circle on the right and then that one in the middle that's our overlap like uh she handles the house stuff the kids she takes a lot off my plate so that i can go be relentless in what i do um i don't think that is any different in 23 than 24 or 22 um i in 23 i think i just i started networking. Um, I started thinking bigger and doing bigger.
I remember we, we were trying billboards, um, and this one magazine specifically. And I remember, uh, the guy who was the owner of the magazine, uh, we moved forward with the magazine and he was at like a lunch with a guy I knew.

And the guy I knew called me and said, Hey, I'm here with this guy. And it was really funny because he said, yeah, this guy just, uh, started doing some billboards and, uh, magazines for lending.
And my buddy was telling me a story about their story. And my guy's like telling the other guy, he's like, Jesus, it's a down market like crazy.
Who the hell is doing billboards and magazines right now? And then he said my name, point was, everyone was pulling back and I pushed. That's the classic Warren Buffett, right? Right.
Run in when everyone's running out. But I tend to be the same way.
I bought more real estate in the last 12 months than I did the 12 months before that. And probably the 12 months before that, right? And it's only because I believe the same thing you believe is there's no easy.
It's always going to be hard. Navigate it.
Figure it out. There's a solution.
And we're in, I also make the argument like real estate's the only thing that everyone needs all the time, no matter what, right? Unless you are a doctor, right? This is something that everyone needs to live in, right? And so we just got to navigate what is our reality, right? Whether you're a loan broker, a fix and flipper, hard money lender, just figure out where the avenue is. There's always an avenue to make money.
And what you've done is you've taken all your experience. And the thing I want to talk about next is you really went into networking.
So you just joined the boardroom. Yep.
Been a part of it for six or seven years. And I'll tell you, I'm doing the keynote speak in Boston.
So hopefully you guys can be in Boston be in Boston I'm doing the keynote speech we will be and I don't want to give it up because then

you'll be like I don't need to listen to Justin you already said it but I'll tell you part of

what I'm going to be talking about is what you just said is networking because you've done this

for 22 years and you're attributing you networking harder or more focused or with more intention

in the last 18 months than typically have been in your career and you had the biggest year financially in your life.

It's to the point where like,

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you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, harder or more focused or with more intention in the last 18 months than typically have been in your career and you had the biggest year financially in your life it's to the point where like there are events and stuff and i'm like shit that one overlaps or like like we were literally in san diego back san diego back home for two days for my birthday to vegas for networking group back for two days and then out here it's like it's a lot of work yeah off off uh camera we were just kind of continuing the conversation about like the amount of effort that really goes into the networking I mean it is I make it a joke I know my wife knows I'm working but like you know it's not our work. It's not the traditional way of working based around nine to five jobs or in an office or in a cubicle.
What we do in our strong suit is people. Loans are a byproduct.
And this goes back to what we were talking about earlier. In my opinion, if you focus on people, you're going to exponentially make more money, meaning networking, connecting, hiring, training, you know, the culture of your team, really pouring into it all is encompassing what I believe takes people from good to great is focusing on the people, not the result.
I've never believed it's what you know. It's who, you know, I mean, you got to, you can't be an idiot, but, um, I've always believed it's who, you know, so there's great books, and I'm going to ask you a question before I tell you the books.
When you set your goals or when you try to figure out what's going to happen 2024 going into 2025, do you kind of say, hey, I just want to do some more, or do you go pretty big on what you're trying to achieve? I would tell you, I don't know that I, I can tell you one definitive one i've always wanted the year next year to be bigger i've never i don't think i've ever said like specifics i've never like okay we need to add 37 percent top line or whatever yeah um i just i just want be better. I just want to be better i would make the argument knowing your personality when you say that that is not like i made a million dollars this year and i want to make a 1 million 100 dollars next year so okay so to be specific that the thing for me now is a million a month a million a month um amongst all not necessarily just in lending but i have other i have a wholesale conversation sniffed a million a month, a million a month.
Amongst all, not necessarily just in lending, but I have other, I have a wholesale conversation. Have you ever sniffed a million a month? I've come close, yeah.
Have you? Okay. Yeah.
So I think you could do more. I would tell you to yourself, because, so the book I was going to reference is 10X is better or easier than 2X.
I have the book, yeah. The blue background with the yellow lettering.
Yeah, just at the end of the day, like exponentially push yourself harder. I mean, the 2X versus 10X, right? Like making a million dollars a year versus making $1,200,000 a year.
It's better by 200 bucks. Yeah.
True. I follow what you're saying.
I think now that I understand the value of teams and scale and all that stuff and systems. I mean, we've literally spent the last three months building out our office to two different CRMs that are sucking the life out of my entire team to build it out and put in the specifics and all the AI and all that cool stuff.
Tedious work. Yeah.
So it's, so I mean's a lot of work it's a lot of effort it's um it's draining yeah but i know the outcome yeah and so um really the other thing for me too is it's kind of like you said the money money is really like the way to keep score that's that's really what it is right like hey if i did more or whatever percentage or whatever is considered actually better not just 200 more the next year yeah it's a way to keep score but what i'm really after is more of the time freedom like i'm i'm here in florida for the past week i'm here another week i have worked like there have been times i I haven't been on my computer.

I've been here for two days.

I've never had that before.

So I think the time to empower others is and let them do their thing and be successful and empower them to be successful. while I can still be successful as well,

but get a lot of my time back is equally as important as what you're saying makes me think of a saying. It's not the exact same, but like you can go fast alone.
You can go further together. You're in the phase of going further together because you're now going to be able to enjoy more of your life, make a very, very incredible income without having to do the work yourself and put in the work.
Because you're going to do it together with the team and the culture and other people. Again, using leverage or empowerment.
Great. That's the phase you're in, which is an exciting phase because you will actually grow bigger without you knowing.
That's incredible to hear. So let's kind of future pace.
You've been doing loans now 22 years where's the financial world going right now I just read an article I think it was CNN I could be misquoting CNN like there's gonna be a lot of bank failures coming up I don't know if that's reality or not or just clickbaity stuff but you know where are we going financially I know it's an election year what's what's your bet by the way i know you don't have a crystal ball so what's your best guess on that on where financial world like lending and interest rates and you know the inflation look here's something i was going to say earlier and i really mean this i have somewhat of a concept in my head of go for broke and one of my greatest things that I love knowing in my head is that if I lost it all and had to go live in a van, I would find a way. And it gives me great comfort to push harder and to take some bigger risks.
Not stupid stuff calculated, but also like you see people and they're like, hey, all right, I want to do a flip, but I don't want to go past X dollars because I think it's safer. Okay, maybe it's safer that, you know, at this price point, there's maybe more buyers, right? But if you got screwed on a $300,000 deal, you're still going to lose a pretty substantial amount of money, right? So if you did a $900,000 deal, you're kinda still screwed either way, right? So what's your ROT, return on time, like effort, mental, you know, thoughts of everything.
The reason I bring that up is, what I'm basically trying to say is, it doesn't matter where it's going. Because long as you're alive, you're going to have to deal with it.
No doubt. And life goes on no matter what.
Evolution is going to happen no matter what. So I don't really have a crystal ball.
But honestly, I kind of don't care. Because I'm going to keep moving down the line of what I need to do.
And if a deal is a good deal, if something makes sense, if it's helping someone, we're making money, and we're doing what we're supposed to do, I don't really think about that very much. Do you know what I'm saying? I totally get it.
So that's honestly my real answer. I don't wake up and go, God, where's the world going? Sure, if interest rates went down, would it be easier for people? Sure, but is that easier just for people to live? Or what about people to make money? If all interest rates went down, we'd all make more money.
That's the concept. But does that mean we're actually arbitraging or that's just the new standard? Do you get what I'm saying? I actually think the fact that you are doing and performing better in business in a harder economic time than 2021 right um is actually a point to bring up regarding it's real arbitrage but it flushes the people who are just making it because the wind was at their back that's my point yeah it's like hey i want interest rates to go down so that i can just exist easier yeah i can exist easier even if interest rates go down i still am looking for whatever additional advantage or bigger arbitrage even beyond the interest rates going to that point that's right because you're actually going to do the work it comes down to the people willing to do the work and fight through the times and find the ways and look around the corners even if the interest flows were low again you're still trying to find a way and look around the corners and do more than the average person if everybody's making money yeah are you actually making money you're just pacing the times right you're pacing the time it's like hey you know what i bought this house for X amount of dollars and I sold, I bought this house for 200.

I sold it for 500.

Okay.

So you made 300K in two years, three years, whatever.

Great.

Well, how much was your next house?

Oh, it was a 500K because we bought a bigger house.

So did you really make money?

You just paced the time.

I don't want to just paced the time.

I actually want to arbitrage and make money above what is just considered existing for that moment.

All right.

All right. So you've done better than you ever have.
And you're talking about networking. I know the answer again, but you're a believer and you cut the checks to the table to get around the right people.
Absolutely. What has that meant to your business to be able to cut checks? And I know you've done multiple mastermind multiple coaching programs you've had one-on-one coaching you've cut I mean how much do you think you've spent to be in the right rooms with the right people in the last year and a half hundreds of thousands hundreds so and what does that mean to your business the the people behind me and the names could you give it could you actually pinpoint like an roi on your spend if you spent 200 grand do you think you tripled that in the last year and a half probably it's probably pretty accurate but the funny thing about it it doesn't it doesn't stop there right because it's a constant thing so technically it's it'll it's Like exponential.
exponential. Yeah.
Infinite. It becomes almost infinite.
Yeah. You said it so perfectly because the investment you make today, let's just say you spent a hundred grand this year.
I'm just making the number up. If you end up over 10 years making $4 million from three relationships because you got in the room and those three relationships gave you this book of business and this business idea and you can't put a price on it and you'll never know too many people are like i don't know if i want to join the mastermind i don't know if i want to get coaching i don't know about it but then they're going to play the mediocre game and we just talked about your drive and push regardless of the economy but they're going to be mediocre forever because they're just waiting for the time where the wind's at their back so they could be easier for them so that they can you know have an easier time making more money and the other thing i would say too is i recognized very early on early 20s how valuable that in education learning networking because the sooner i started it the the longer in the course of my life, I had the benefit of it.
If I'm, you know, starting this at 55, 60, great. If that's where you're at, you should do it at the same time.
If someone's 22 right now, 28, 30, you should be doing it right away because the sooner you do it, the longer you have the benefit of it. I just had a 19 year old join my coaching program, 10 grand, 19 years old.
Right. Uh, and I, I'm like pouring into this kid because to the fact that he had the credit score to get a credit card and then used it because his understanding of making an investment to be around me and my team of people, like I will do anything I can to help this kid be successful just because his own willingness to believe what you and I already know.
I'm 43. Like it took, it takes a long time to realize that.
And especially at 19, I was an idiot. Yeah, it's cool to see it.
But yeah, I mean, so the networking is a big deal for me. I'll continue to do it.
There's a social aspect to it that i really enjoy as well that i think is maybe even one of the underlying benefits as well yeah i mean you create real relationships real friendships friendships that are going to last because you know the the high school friends and then the college friends you fade away because you don't have the same things in common anymore. Yeah.
Right. Yep.
And so, dude, I greatly appreciate you being on this podcast, dude. And again, everyone, make sure you are following him.
Where can they all find you? Where's the best place to find you? Where can they search you out? Ask you more questions. And by the way, if you think we've given good advice, if you like this, if you're able to take something from it, share this with two of your friends at least but where where can uh everyone find you so i'll make sure they can spell my name first off it's michael m-i-c-h-a-e-l last name i-u-c-u-l-a-n-o um and then just type in my name on on there's there's only a couple of me in the world with that last name so it it's pretty hard not to find me, but yeah, Michael Yucolano on most of the social networks.

So yeah.

Cool.

Well, I appreciate being here, man.

It'll be great.

There's a lot of business to be done.

If you're looking for hard money lending, are you national in certain States?

Where do you, where do you lend?

We're national. We mostly focus in California, Arizona, Florida, Texas, Utah, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, Georgia.

And I think that's it.

If you need a great lender, someone that I trust, someone I would recommend to look them up, ping them, hit them on a DM and say, hey, I have another property that I need a lender on.

He's our guy. Appreciate you, dude.

Thank you, man.

Cool, cool. See you guys on the next episode with another killer guest.
Make sure to share this to your friends. Peace.
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