Why Speed Matters: The Role of Hard Money and Bridge Loans | Michael Iuculano

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Speaker 9 The deal is in the speed, right? If somebody's selling you their home or even their business, whatever somebody's using the money for

Speaker 9 that they need the money for fast,

Speaker 9 the opportunity often that they're getting is in the speed. If I own a business and I say, hey, Justin, I want to sell you my such and such business, and you're like, holy shit, that's a smoking deal.

Speaker 9 I'm not going to come to you and say, hey, Justin, I want to sell you my $3 million business for $2 million.

Speaker 9 Go ahead and take your time and close when you want. Right.
it's

Speaker 9 i will do this for this but i want this right like and i want it tomorrow what's up the science of flipping family we are back with an incredible guest someone i've known six seven years he is the hard money man michael ukolano is in the house what is happening not too much man happy to be here in miami yeah by way of bokeh and scottsdale well you've been selling me on bokeh you and nicole have been selling me on bokeh so it could be happening and obviously i'm familiar with scottsdale so let's jump into money.

Speaker 9 Money has changed a lot. You've been doing lending for 22 years now.
You're in my space, your space.

Speaker 9 You're an investor as well, but you've been lending more what we call hard money, which is, you know, a lot transactional, right?

Speaker 9 So for someone like myself that fix and flips or I do a lot of burr, you're a perfect person to be calling for. So make sure you reach out to Michael Ukolano.

Speaker 9 You'll have all of his information everywhere as you're watching this or hearing this.

Speaker 9 Spell your last name so everyone knows how to spell this damn thing. So it's I-U-C-U-L-A-N-O.

Speaker 9 If you're not watching this, he actually got closer to the mic just in case.

Speaker 9 So let's talk about money. A lot has changed since COVID.
Yeah,

Speaker 9 you know, obviously, pre-COVID is pre-COVID. Everything, I feel like that's the benchmark now.
What has happened since COVID?

Speaker 9 So let's talk about how your world in hard money lending investors, how has it tightened up? How has it changed? Let's just like, what is the landscape looking like?

Speaker 9 So there's some cause of concern, you know, and anytime, you know, you're in a situation where it may be harder to sell a property, lending is going to follow suit, right?

Speaker 9 Harder to buy or I'm sorry, harder to sell, harder to lend, right? If it's easier to sell, it's easier to lend. And so that's kind of it, right? So

Speaker 9 people are looking at more staff,

Speaker 9 more paperwork, more things like that. They want to know that they've got a quality borrower, someone who's got the capacity to pay and they're going to do what they say.

Speaker 9 So as a lender, are you guys actually being a little bit tighter on intaking a new client? Is it just getting a little tighter?

Speaker 9 Like, I need more financials, more history of fix and flipping or buying investment properties, or is that still the same? Is it I think every deal is different, right?

Speaker 9 I mean, are you buying a home for a million bucks and putting 900 grand down?

Speaker 9 We'll probably be a little bit more laxed than somebody who's buying a million-dollar flip fix and flip, putting 20% down, and it needs 200 grand worth of work to then sell it for 1.4 or 1.5 million.

Speaker 9 So the deal itself matters. The deal itself dictates a fair portion of the route it's going to go.

Speaker 9 And so you guys have a whole underwriting team beyond just yourself that like cross-verifies the numbers do make sense. This is the right number.
This is the right ARV.

Speaker 9 And then you can kind of green light that loan. Yeah.
And I mean, we do more than just fix and blips, right?

Speaker 9 A lot of bridge loans, a lot of cash outs, rental properties, traditional loans, a lot of bank statement loans. What's up? So in terms of bridge loan, so that I think that's loosely used in my world.

Speaker 9 People kind of say bridge loan.

Speaker 9 And usually in my world, what that means would be like, if I'm buying a hundred thousand dollar property and Michael is going to give me an 80 per 80 percent, you know, $80,000 loan, the 20% down would be a bridge loan from a private lender.

Speaker 9 So a lot of people look at it that way. In your world, what does bridge loan mean?

Speaker 9 So the real kind of original meaning of bridge loan was really from I own and live or have this house and and want to go to that house, but I can't buy that house until I sell this house.

Speaker 9 And it was meant to bridge the gap from A to C.

Speaker 9 Right.

Speaker 9 And you're right. Bridge is very often missed.
Everything's a bridge now. Everything.
Everything is. Anything that's not the first lien is now a bridge loan.
Yeah. And I mean, second position.

Speaker 9 At least that's how people, I think, hear it, right? That's what they think about. I mean, it depends on what seminar you went to and who came up with what and who found a solution for what.

Speaker 9 But, you know second position loans are not they're not the norm i mean if you have the right private investor who's got some money or enough money to do a deal with and for you good for you but we don't do a lot of seconds um that's not what i want i mean we've done them but they're like hey you know like we have one right now the house is worth 500k they owe 180 we're giving them a small 100k loan yeah for speed because they're buying another property and they don't want the second they just need the speed yeah so they're literally we're giving them the 100k because it's well supported yeah they're gonna go do what they need to do with the money now yeah and then we're gonna refi them back into traditional uh for the 180 and the 100 it'll be a basically a 300k loan uh to pay off the hard money loan and to go into a new 300k loan so a good example in my world so for example i'm renovating a 19 door apartment

Speaker 9 uh it'll it's already vacant obviously so i'm renovating the whole thing so a good bridge loan in my world for people's understanding would be: I finished the construction on that.

Speaker 9 I'd go to you for a bridge loan to get it tenanted, fully occupied, performing. Then, I could either go back to you and go get a long-term 30-year loan, or I could go to a bank or wherever.

Speaker 9 That's right. You would bridge the gap between me finishing construction on the apartment and getting it fully occupied.
In that scenario, yes, because most of your traditional banks are going to want

Speaker 9 performance, they want stabilization, right? So, and that's the general concept, right?

Speaker 9 The cheaper the money, the cleaner the deal. You want bank money, you better be a bank borrower, right?

Speaker 9 And so must your property, right? They're not going to give you, and you can't write your own ticket. You're not going to get, you know, bank rates with a hard money process.
Right. Right?

Speaker 9 It's time for people to wake up and realize this is the new age of lending. It's not write your own ticket or name your own terms.

Speaker 9 Well, and especially, I think there's so many people up in arms about interest rates. I don't care.

Speaker 9 I think you and I have been on the same page because it's not that big of an issue as long as you have a good deal. But where do interest rates land in the hard money world these days?

Speaker 9 You know, I know it's, I get that it can be specific to the borrower and the asset itself, but when you, when the most common loans you're seeing right now, where are you guys standing?

Speaker 9 I haven't done a loan under like 11 and a half

Speaker 9 in probably a year and a half. I would say right now we're probably 12 and north

Speaker 9 for true hard money. I mean, there's like some institutional type type stuff that

Speaker 9 you might be able to see a little cheaper, but nothing earth-shattering or life-changing, different. No, and none of that matters.

Speaker 9 So, for example, I think I've bought, I don't know, 53 homes this year, and I'm getting 11%.

Speaker 9 Yeah. But if you said, Justin, mine's 11.5%, I'm not like, oh, I can't use you, dude.

Speaker 9 If you said 12, I'm not going to end it.

Speaker 9 The point people need to understand is hard money for a reason. It's not the long-term debt.

Speaker 9 I need to math out the equation to say, okay, if Michael's, let's just say 12% or 11%,

Speaker 9 and I'm going to hold that loan for six months or nine months or even a year, God forsake it,

Speaker 9 does it still make sense that it's a deal? And if so, then I buy the deal and I keep going. You buy the deal, not the debt.
If you're buying the debt, you're doing a sub-2 deal. That's great.

Speaker 9 You know, pick one.

Speaker 9 I think that's a great point. You're buying the deal, not the debt.
And if you are buying the debt, you're buying a sub-2. Correct.
And that's great, but then you don't need Michael. That's right.

Speaker 9 So it takes you out of the equation, but it's a different structure, right? Because I also don't love sub-2s for this reason. I'm now kind of stuck in that debt, right? I'm literally buying the debt.

Speaker 9 That's what I'm essentially buying. And so if I need to bring 60 or 70 or 80 grand to the table, depending upon the deal, or even more, well, I can't get that money back out.

Speaker 9 So it needs to perform at a really high level because I'm literally buying the debt for the long-term point, right? So that money is stuck in that deal. So you're not performing.

Speaker 9 Buying 3% debt, you're never touching it. So that money you just put in.
Suck.

Speaker 9 I don't like that. So that's not my game.
I don't like. Now, don't get me wrong, a couple bucks here and there stuck in, but I want to make sure

Speaker 9 I have a good five-year return of all investment, right? So I want 20% return on the capital I leave in a deal.

Speaker 9 So if I leave 100 grand in a deal, I want to get. 20 grand back every year in net revenue in my pocket.
So in five years, I'm back out. Right.

Speaker 9 So you're playing with the house money at that point. And in many ways, um

Speaker 9 that's that's pretty solid that's a great right but that's my model so i'm a little more conservative but it's because i have the scars to make me that conservative right i mean you don't get that conservative by always winning um so what is what is you you do residential you do commercial i mean give me the scope of kind of like who are your ideal borrowers my ideal borrower is someone who has a need for financing predicated on either speed, need for speed, a credit issue, and/or harder to show income, or two of those, or three of those, or some variation of those.

Speaker 9 Yeah, yeah. I mean, it depends, right? Like, we do a lot of deals for very well-qualified buyers that have opportunities where speed becomes the reason, right? Banks can't move as fast.

Speaker 9 Uh, you know, I used to say this all the time,

Speaker 9 the deal is in the speed, right? If somebody's selling you their home or even their business, whatever somebody's using the money for that they need the money for fast,

Speaker 9 the opportunity often that they're getting is in the speed. If I own a business and I say, hey, Justin, I want to sell you my such and such business, and you're like, holy shit, that's a smoking deal.

Speaker 9 I'm not going to come to you and say, hey, Justin, I want to sell you my $3 million business for $2 million.

Speaker 9 Go ahead and take your time and close when you want. Right.

Speaker 9 I will do this for this, but I want this, right? Like, and I want it tomorrow. What can you help your borrower who's watching us, listening to it? What can you tell them to help you keep the speed?

Speaker 9 Because a lot of times, unfortunately, you're able to perform. It's the borrower who's not getting you a document or not getting you the thing.
And you're like, dude,

Speaker 9 I could have funded this yesterday if you would have gotten me this thing. What can you tell them to like help themselves get your money faster?

Speaker 9 I mean, the first thing it would tell you is, it's funny you're saying this.

Speaker 9 We had a client even yesterday, one of my sales guys was telling me about, and the guy's like, we told him when the deal would close.

Speaker 9 Here's what we need in our needs list and it's been about 10 days it took him five days to get us the stuff so he messaged he goes where are we at we're 10 days in

Speaker 9 no we're five days in because you we told you what we needed you took five days to get it to us so no we're not 10 days in we're five days in right so to answer your question if somebody wants to do a loan make sure you understand that this isn't a handshake deal right it's gut there's effort there's paid work there's title reports there's potentially millions of dollars.

Speaker 9 There's regulation. This is not a pawn loan.
This is not an auto-title loan. And it's not a handshake loan.
Right. So wake up and realize

Speaker 9 what you're looking for is going to require effort. You know, it's funny.
I've had, so you know, I have a coaching program. I have a lot of people that are newer.

Speaker 9 And their challenge right now,

Speaker 9 and I think I have a solution. Want to hear your thought on it.
Sure.

Speaker 9 Their challenge right now is because they don't have the resume I do, it's hard for them to to get a hard money lender to give them

Speaker 9 the loan either in speed or a high loan to cost or something you know it's it's really challenging for these newer investors do you find that to be true for you guys because they're like i use companies i've used every company you could possibly think of um but it's because i've done this 17 years and i can say hey here are the last 53 properties I bought this year.

Speaker 9 And they're kind of like, oh, got it. Here, here's your.
You know what I mean? Is it challenging to work with a newbie

Speaker 9 i think

Speaker 9 it's funny i was just talking to one of my sales guys two weeks ago about this and it's like you know there's a lot of teachers in wholesaling and flipping and they say you don't need money and you don't need credit and that's true you can do it without money and credit but you can't have no money no credit and a shit deal okay so you gotta at least have an amazing loan what's that you're not gonna get an amazing loan when you you have no money and no credit.

Speaker 9 You're not gonna get someone to lend you like, I get 90% money.

Speaker 9 A new person who's never done a flip, are you gonna give them 90% money? Unless they're stealing the deal.

Speaker 9 So number three. Right.
Some people are doing a deal to do a deal. I just gotta do a deal because my buddy did it.
I gotta do it because it sounds cool. Like, if you submit shit, shit in and shit out.

Speaker 9 Right? So like, there's just a lot of people forcing deals.

Speaker 9 And I get it right now because the market, I still feel like there's, you know, the sellers feel like it's 2022 and the buyers feel like it's 2008.

Speaker 9 So there's this huge line and some people are either undisciplined or not patient or trying to force deals because they have to do a deal. They want to do a deal.
They're gambling.

Speaker 9 They're not investing. Let's stay there for a second.
You said something I think is a great subject. Buyers think it's 2008 for sure.
I don't.

Speaker 9 I know what's happening, but most uneducated or less experienced buyers. But sellers think it's 2021, 2022.
Right. How, and you're sitting in the middle.
Yes. How do you deal with that?

Speaker 9 I mean, most of the time when I am dealing with a deal on a purchase, it's already in contract. Yeah.
So it's already kind of past that point for me.

Speaker 9 And then if there are refis or cash out type stuff, it's, it's got to be relevant because it's, uh, it's not a,

Speaker 9 there's no sale. There's no buyer and seller at that point.
Yeah. Um

Speaker 9 what do you think breaks first sellers or buyers? Who gives in and realizes someone's wrong?

Speaker 9 Depends on what the intent of the buyer is. If it's a, I want to buy it because I want my family to live there, my wife is pushing me for it, I would say in that scenario, the buyer gives in.

Speaker 9 If it's seller needs to sell for

Speaker 9 I got to move, we got to doubt, whatever their motivation is,

Speaker 9 then the seller. But it's interesting because I think it's kind of a telltale sign right now with people having cheap money that if you're really selling right now,

Speaker 9 I really think there's a reason why. Yeah.
Motivation. Well, you and I just talked about this personally, right?

Speaker 9 We're talking about getting our families together, whether it's in Boca and we'll both buy in Boca or I'm going to move back to Scott Sale.

Speaker 9 But like, you and I are looking for homes at the same time, same price point. Is there anything for us?

Speaker 9 I mean, it depends on how

Speaker 9 picky we want to be or how.

Speaker 9 I mean, I'm pretty picky at this point, right? Like, I want what I want. When I'm going to put multiple millions of dollars into a home, like, I want the thing I want at this point.

Speaker 9 I'm not willing to just. But, like, there's just nothing even out there right now.
Right.

Speaker 9 To your point, because if someone has cheap money and the home's a two and a half million dollar home, they're probably not that overly incentivized to sell right now because they got to go and get a seven and a half percent interest rate or seven or something.

Speaker 9 And the equivalent price point isn't going to be as quality. It's almost like you're hoping to find, we're hoping to find somebody's second home that they want to sell.
Sort of. Does that make sense?

Speaker 9 Yeah. And that's kind of, you know, it's funny.
I almost thought about going in, calling for sale by owners on Zillow

Speaker 9 and just going down the creative finance path with people.

Speaker 9 Say, I'll overpay you. I see you want two and a half.
I'll pay you $3 million. I just need the terms.
Lending is just terrible for me right now. And just do it myself.

Speaker 9 Like, don't even rely on a realtor. Don't like, just go find the home I want and find a way to make it work for me.
Probably not a bad idea, man. I mean,

Speaker 9 I think that's the market we're in. The funny thing is, I think people at that level

Speaker 9 would be almost more responsive to it. I would entertain it.

Speaker 9 If someone came to me and gave me a multiple of what I think I could sell my home for, like right this moment, I think I could list my home at 1.9, maybe two,

Speaker 9 and get the number. Sure.
Right.

Speaker 9 If someone came and said, dude, I'll give you two and a half, just give me some terms, I will. Yeah, but how long would you do the terms?

Speaker 9 Probably not that long. I mean, it'll

Speaker 9 improve

Speaker 9 how much is he putting down. So it just depends on the terms that we negotiate.
But, you know,

Speaker 9 because I also know enough that I can go get another loan after what, maybe, do you know the, is it six months? I would be able to say someone's paying this note. I can show

Speaker 9 I'm pretty sure it's right away because you've got a down payment. You've got a lease.

Speaker 9 So I can show the debt isn't necessarily my responsibility anymore. That's my point.

Speaker 9 It's like a rental agreement. Even though you still own the debt, it's still, you have a, it's like a rent.

Speaker 9 Or it could be a lease option, a structure lease option, and then I can genuinely show the rent and say, hey, I'm going to go buy another home and I can get great terms.

Speaker 9 Let's talk about business real quick, just because you and I have done this a long time and we have a lot of similar aspects of creating chaos in our own business.

Speaker 9 You've been friendly now for 22 years. I've seen iterations just knowing you six, seven years from

Speaker 9 mutual friends in Scottsdale and seeing you transfer over and now you have your own thing and you're top producer. I mean, you were just crushing in the lending space.

Speaker 9 But I've also been able to see the iterations of you, right?

Speaker 9 We both agree. We're the type of personalities that we almost kind of create the chaos because it makes us push harder in business.

Speaker 9 And I'm seeing you borderline redline in a great way, not redline in like you're out of control.

Speaker 9 I mean, I've never actually seen you work the way you're working, pushing as hard as you're pushing, head down, building what you're really trying to build.

Speaker 9 But I know that comes from a lot of kicking up dust and creating chaos. Yeah, I think you get to a point where, where, you know, for many, many years,

Speaker 9 I had, you know, it's interesting. I didn't even have my own assistant until about three years ago.
And yet at that point, I had been in this business

Speaker 9 as a pretty high-level producer for 19 years prior.

Speaker 9 And I just really started taking the scaling, the delegation, which I don't even use delegation anymore. I use empowering, empowering,

Speaker 9 taking the empowering of others

Speaker 9 really seriously. And

Speaker 9 it's changed my entire business.

Speaker 9 More so, it's changed my entire mindset of what's possible.

Speaker 9 What do you think you delegate or empower the most? What have you realized now you are giving that responsibility on to others? What has helped the most for you?

Speaker 9 I'll tell you,

Speaker 9 is it growing the business? Is it

Speaker 9 there's a couple of things from somebody who you know very well that I kept getting in my head.

Speaker 9 he does that really well, by the way. Yes, and he said,

Speaker 9 you know,

Speaker 9 uh,

Speaker 9 a lot of people, man, you know, like amongst your buddies when you're younger, dude, you're a hustler, that's awesome, be a hustler, hustler, hustler.

Speaker 9 It's great, it's great to have that hustler heart, right? But in reality, you're what you're really wanting to go to at some point is CEO, yeah,

Speaker 9 and that's really what I've been doing, right?

Speaker 9 So you've been going from the hustler to the CEO, yeah, and we've all heard it, right? Working on your business, not in your business. It's taken me a lot.

Speaker 9 For someone who's, you know, either a control freak or I got to know everything that's going on every moment.

Speaker 9 That was really tough for me to

Speaker 9 start even the process of going from hustler to CEO. And I'm not fully there.
But

Speaker 9 that's where I'm going. So let me ask you that because I love it.

Speaker 9 I'm more in the CEO

Speaker 9 role now than I've ever been in my 17 years of doing this.

Speaker 9 But it does come with a lot of other chaos, if we're using that word, right? Because, I mean, just in the construction side of my business, right? Like, I'm not managing the contractors, right?

Speaker 9 So now I have a project manager who manages the contractors. Well, if something doesn't go right, then I have to get involved, right? So you're giving up that responsibility of your control.

Speaker 9 But then you don't have to go do it, which the best part for you and me is you and I know how to go create more money.

Speaker 9 And if we focus on that and hire great people, we'll build a bigger, better business. We'll build a better infrastructure.

Speaker 9 Have you seen a downside to it as you're going through the journey of going into the CEO role?

Speaker 9 Not really,

Speaker 9 because I'm so tall vision on the outcome and the long term that it's like I have this tattoo, right? And it says to every adversity, there's an equal or greater benefit.

Speaker 9 So regardless, if something goes wrong, it's actually the opportunity for my team to learn.

Speaker 9 I've literally, when things have gone wrong, like we had some issues yesterday, and I'm literally talking to Nicole about how I'm excited. I'm like, shit, this just happened.
This just happened.

Speaker 9 Yeah, it worked out great. But you know what? It's never going to happen again.

Speaker 9 I think someone's going to learn faster from something that punched them in the face than something that handed him a check.

Speaker 9 Could you have solved this issue yesterday if that person or the team wasn't in place and you were running it? Would that issue have popped up if you were already running the scenario?

Speaker 9 Wouldn't it have popped up? No. Right.
Because I would have dealt with it differently. It never would have happened.
But I love to just

Speaker 9 like

Speaker 9 my two words are handle it. If they need my advice, I will 100% be there for them, but handle it.
Here's a book suggestion to listen to while you're doing this back and forth from Phoenix to Florida.

Speaker 9 Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martel.

Speaker 9 It is arguably the best book, business book I've listened to specifically in probably the last five to 10 years. It is incredible.
And he talks about one thing that is of note, the 131 rule.

Speaker 9 And Dan Martel talks about there's one problem, there's three solutions you need to come up with, and then there's one answer. I like that.

Speaker 9 So he tells everyone when there's this problem, he says, come into the office, what's the problem? And they say, X.

Speaker 9 And then he says, great. What are three

Speaker 9 options for solutions? Go think about it, figure it out, come back to the three. And then you will tell me what you think is best.

Speaker 9 And I'll either think and agree or point out why maybe another option could be better. But you need to go do all the work.
Come back to me with what you think the best is.

Speaker 9 The 131 rule has been incredible because it allows them to actually, to your point, grow. That's where you're going to have these people grow is because you're making, don't go fix.

Speaker 9 It's like parenting, right? right? It's like, if you just always clean up after a kid, do they ever really learn? Or do they just keep making the mess? Cause you're cleaning.

Speaker 9 Oh, my dad's going to clean it up again, right? So the same thing. Give them the force them to do it.
It's rewarding.

Speaker 9 Like, I was even telling Nicole, like, you know, for my birthday and even something else, like, one of my guys got me a card and it was like the most heartfelt card. Thank you so much for helping me.

Speaker 9 You've helped me grow as a person. You've helped me grow as a man.
You've helped me grow as a

Speaker 9 like a human. Yeah.
And I'm like literally crying. Like I'm literally like crying.
Like for much of my life, it was always about me. Yeah.

Speaker 9 And it's still largely, I'm not going to sit here and blow bullshit and say I still like myself and growing. I can't sure if I ask you.
And I'm okay with you love Michael.

Speaker 9 But it's fucking cool to see that my efforts and skills and whatever the hell I'm doing are actually directly impacting someone else in a positive way. Multiple people.

Speaker 9 And I never thought about that as much. I never thought about that really ever before, but to see it happening now, I think about it like every day.
I think that's cool to see or hear that season.

Speaker 9 I am curious on what Nicole has to say after we're off air.

Speaker 9 But the reason why I think that's because I also was that personality and I was selfish and single for the better part of my 30s and it served me well and I got to be selfish.

Speaker 9 I cared about making money and spending all the money and having all the fun.

Speaker 9 But there is that time where you start to realize the impact you make on others and what you can do for others is more important or just as important.

Speaker 9 And the money starts, interestingly enough, my concern of money has lessened drastically. Lately.
But I've made more substantially because my focus is on empowering and helping and developing others.

Speaker 9 And from that, I actually make more money.

Speaker 9 Scale. And it will be very interesting to watch your next three years because I think you're right in that season of like hustler to CEO.

Speaker 9 And as you grow into that, it's going to take a whole lot of new muscles that you don't have yet because you now only care about your people and you don't care about the outcome. Right.

Speaker 9 And that's tough, man, because you want to like, why didn't that deal go through? Or why couldn't you get that loan?

Speaker 9 Or why didn't, you know, but you're really like, okay, well, that's a part of his growth. They got to figure out why that didn't happen.
Well, it's more of them.

Speaker 9 The other thing, too, like, I, I've, I've,

Speaker 9 it used to be, you'd be like, okay, I want to do this because I want to make a lot of money. So this was for that, right?

Speaker 9 And in the past couple of years, it's been all about like the process. Like, I'm addicted to the process.
Like, we just created two ridiculous CRMs. They're not even done yet.

Speaker 9 We're two months in on each of them, and they're the most ridiculous CRMs. Yeah.
Like all the programming and the intricacies, like shit, I don't even understand. I don't know either.
I'm with you.

Speaker 9 My guys are like handling it, right? So it's cool.

Speaker 9 It's just I've always wanted to be better, right?

Speaker 9 And

Speaker 9 so it's, it's more the the process that I focus on.

Speaker 9 I'll tell you, the process for me sometimes going through that process, like even right now, we're two and a half months in or whatever the hell it is.

Speaker 9 And I'm like, you have to tell Nicole, I'm like, oh my God, I can't fucking take it anymore. I need like a reprieve from it for like three days, right?

Speaker 9 There's no middle ground with me. I don't like it.
I don't like middle ground. It doesn't work for me.
What is...

Speaker 9 Now, a lot of people would make the argument right now. This shows your growth because I know the answer, but a lot of people would make the argument, real estate is tough right now.

Speaker 9 Have you made more money in the last 12 to 18 months than you did in the 12 to 18 months before? I have the biggest year of my career in 23. Right.
We're not even done with 24.

Speaker 9 But that goes to the point of: I don't think real estate is tough. Are there separate challenges? Yeah, but if you know how to work and you know what you're doing, it's not actually that tough.

Speaker 9 Real estate is tough. Is marketing tough? Is

Speaker 9 I don't everything tough?

Speaker 9 Is making hats tough? Selling hats tough? I mean, everything is tough. Life doesn't go in a fucking straight line.
Everything's tough. Everything has its easier time or downside.

Speaker 9 What are you going to do? Quit? Go back to selling something else?

Speaker 9 What would you attribute to your great year in 2023?

Speaker 9 Is it experience? Is it a market? Is it Nicole?

Speaker 9 Nicole takes a lot off my plate. That's great.
It's kind of like back to the people.

Speaker 9 It's like her job is to handle the house. Like we came up this thing the other day.
It's like

Speaker 9 we're the CEOs of like

Speaker 9 our compartmentalization. I use this, okay? So there's that circle on the left, there's a circle on the right, and then that one in the middle.
That's our overlap. Like

Speaker 9 she handles the house stuff, the kids. She takes a lot off my plate so that I can go be relentless in what I do.

Speaker 9 I don't think that is any different in 23 than 24 or 22.

Speaker 9 In 23, I think I just,

Speaker 9 I started networking like crazy.

Speaker 9 I started thinking bigger and doing bigger. I remember we, we were trying billboards

Speaker 9 and this one magazine specifically. And I remember

Speaker 9 the guy who was the owner of the magazine,

Speaker 9 we moved forward with the magazine, and he was at

Speaker 9 like a like a

Speaker 9 a lunch with a guy new. And the guy knew called me and said, hey, I'm here with this guy.
And it was really funny because he said, yeah, this guy just started doing some billboards and

Speaker 9 magazines for lending. And my buddy was telling me a story about their story.

Speaker 9 And my guy's like

Speaker 9 telling the other guy, he's like, Jesus, it's a down market like crazy. Who the hell is doing billboards and

Speaker 9 magazines right now? And then he said my name. Point was everyone was pulling back and I pushed.

Speaker 9 That's the classic Warren Buffett, right? Right. Run in when everyone's running out.
But I tend to be the same way. I bought more real estate in the last 12 months than I did the 12 months before that

Speaker 9 and probably the 12 months before that, right? And it's only because I believe the same thing you believe is there's no easy. It's always going to be hard.
Navigate it. Figure it out.

Speaker 9 There's a solution. And we're in a,

Speaker 9 I also make the argument, like, real estate's the only thing that everyone needs all the time, no matter what, right? Unless you are a doctor, right?

Speaker 9 This is something that everyone needs to live in, right? And so we just got to navigate what is our reality, right?

Speaker 9 Whether you're a loan broker, a fix and flipper, hard money lender, just figure out where the avenue is. There's always an avenue to make money.

Speaker 9 And what you've done is you've taken all your experience. And the thing I want to talk about next is you really went into networking.
So you just joined the boardroom. Yep.

Speaker 9 Been a part of it for six or or seven years. And I'll tell you, I'm doing the keynote speak in Boston.
So hopefully you guys can be in Boston. I'm doing the keynote speech.
We will be.

Speaker 9 And I don't want to give it up because then you'll be like, oh, I don't need to listen to Justin. You already said it.

Speaker 9 But I'll tell you, part of what I'm going to be talking about is what you just said is networking.

Speaker 9 Because you've done this for 22 years and you're attributing you networking harder or more focused or with more intention in the last 18 months than typically have been in your career.

Speaker 9 And you had the biggest year financially in your life. It's to the point where like

Speaker 9 there are events and stuff and I'm like, shit, that one overlaps or like

Speaker 9 we were literally in

Speaker 9 San Diego, back,

Speaker 9 San Diego, back home for two days for my birthday to Vegas for a networking group, back for two days and then out here. It's like, it's a lot of work.
Yeah. Off

Speaker 9 camera, we were just kind of continuing the conversation about like the amount of effort that really goes into the networking. I mean, it is, I make it a joke.

Speaker 9 I know my wife knows I'm working, but like,

Speaker 9 you know, it's not our typical work. It's not the traditional way of working based around nine to five jobs or in an office or in a cubicle.
What we do in our strong suit is people. Yes.

Speaker 9 Loans are a byproduct. And this goes back to what we were talking about earlier, in my opinion.

Speaker 9 If you focus on people, you're going to exponentially make more money, meaning networking, connecting, hiring, training,

Speaker 9 the culture of your team really pouring into it. It all is encompassing what I believe takes people from good to great.

Speaker 9 It's focusing on the people, not the result. I've never believed it's what you know.
It's who you know. I mean, you got to, you can't be an idiot, but I've always believed it's who you know.

Speaker 9 So there's two great books, and I'm going to ask you a question before I tell you the books.

Speaker 9 When you set your goals or when you try to figure out what's going to happen in 2024, we're going into 2025, do you kind of say, hey, I just want to do some more?

Speaker 9 Or do you go pretty big on what you're trying to achieve?

Speaker 9 I would tell you, I don't know that I

Speaker 9 believe I can tell you one definitive. One, I've always wanted the year, next year to be bigger.
I've never, I don't think I've ever said like specifics. I've never been like, okay, we need to add 37%

Speaker 9 top line or whatever.

Speaker 9 I just I just want to be better. I just want to be better.
I would make the argument knowing your personality when you say that.

Speaker 9 That is is not like I made a million dollars this year and I want to make a $1,100 next year. So, okay, so to be specific, the thing for me now is a million a month.
A million a month.

Speaker 9 Amongst all, not necessarily just them lending, but I have other, I have a whole seller. Have you ever sniffed a million a month? I've come close, yeah.
Have you? Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 9 So I think you could do more. I would tell you to yourself, because so the book I was going to reference is 10X is better or easier than 2X.
I have the book, yeah.

Speaker 9 The blue background with with the yellow lettering, yeah. Just at the end of the day, like exponentially pushing yourself harder.
I mean, the 2x versus 10x, right?

Speaker 9 Like, making a million dollars a year versus making $1,200 a year is better by 200 bucks. Yeah, true.

Speaker 9 I follow what you're saying.

Speaker 9 I think now that I understand the value of teams and scale and all that stuff and systems, I mean, we've literally spent the last three months building out our office, two different CRMs that are sucking the life out of my entire team

Speaker 9 to build it out and put in the specifics and all the AI and all that cool stuff. It's just tedious work.
Yeah. So it's, so, I mean, it's just, um, it's a lot of work, it's a lot of effort.

Speaker 9 It's, um, it's draining, yeah. But I know the outcome.
Yeah. And so,

Speaker 9 um, really the other thing for me, too, is it's kind of like you said, the money, money is really like the way to keep score. That's, that's really what it is, right?

Speaker 9 Like, hey, if I did more or whatever percentage or whatever is considered actually better, not just $200 more the next year,

Speaker 9 is a way to keep score. But what I'm really after is more of the time freedom.
Like, I'm here in Florida for the past week. I'm here another week.
I have worked

Speaker 9 like there have been times I've been on my computer. I've been here for two days.

Speaker 9 I've never had that before.

Speaker 9 So I think the time

Speaker 9 to empower others is and let them

Speaker 9 do their thing and be successful and empower them to be successful while I can still, you know,

Speaker 9 be successful as well, but get a lot of my time back

Speaker 9 is equally as important as what you're saying makes me think of a saying, it's not the exact same, but like

Speaker 9 You can go fast alone. You can go further together.
You're in the phase of going further together. Yes.

Speaker 9 Because you're now going going to be able to enjoy more of your life, make a very, very incredible income without having to do the work yourself and put in the work because you're going to do it together with a team and a culture and some and other people.

Speaker 9 Again, using leverage or empowerment.

Speaker 9 That's the phase you're in, which is an exciting phase because you will actually grow bigger without you knowing.

Speaker 9 That's incredible to hear. So let's kind of future pace.
You've been doing loans now 22 years.

Speaker 9 Where's the financial world going right now? I just read an article. I think it was CNN.
I could be misquoting CNN. Like, there's going to be a lot of bank failures coming up.

Speaker 9 I don't know if that's reality or not, or just clickbaity stuff. But, you know, where are we going financially? I know it's an election year.
What's your bet?

Speaker 9 By the way, I know you don't have a crystal ball. So what's your best guess on that?

Speaker 9 Where the world, like lending and interest rates, and you know, the inflation.

Speaker 9 Look, here's something I was going to say earlier, and I really mean this.

Speaker 9 I have somewhat of a concept in my head of

Speaker 9 gopher broke. And one of my greatest

Speaker 9 things that I love knowing in my head is that if I lost it all and I had to go live in a van, I would find a way.

Speaker 9 And it gives me great comfort to push harder and to take some bigger risks, not stupid stuff calculated, but also

Speaker 9 like you see people and they're like, hey. All right, I want to do a flip, but I don't want to go past X dollars because I think it's safer.
Okay, maybe it's safer that,

Speaker 9 you know, at this price point, there's maybe more buyers, right?

Speaker 9 But if you got screwed on a 300K deal, you're still going to lose a pretty substantial amount of money, right?

Speaker 9 So if you did a $900,000 deal, you're kind of still screwed either way, right?

Speaker 9 So

Speaker 9 what's your ROT? Return on time, like effort, mental, you know, thoughts of everything.

Speaker 9 The reason I bring that that up is what I'm basically trying to say is it doesn't matter where it's going because, as long as you're alive, you're going to have to deal with it. No doubt.

Speaker 9 And life goes on no matter what. Evolution is going to happen no matter what.

Speaker 9 So I don't really have a crystal ball, but honestly, I kind of don't care because I'm going to keep moving down the line of what I need to do. And if a deal is a good deal, if something makes sense,

Speaker 9 if it's helping someone, we're making money and

Speaker 9 we're doing what we're supposed to do, I don't really think about that very much. Do you know what I'm saying? I totally get it.
So that's honestly my real answer.

Speaker 9 I don't like wake up and go, God, where's the world going? Sure, if interest rates went down,

Speaker 9 would it be easier for people? Sure. But is that easier just for people to live? Or what about people to make money? If all interest rates went down, we'd all make more money.
That's the concept.

Speaker 9 But does that mean we're actually arbitraging or that's just the new standard? Do you get what I'm saying?

Speaker 9 I actually think the fact that you are doing and performing better in business in a harder economic time than 2021, right?

Speaker 9 Is actually a point to bring up regarding

Speaker 9 but it flushes the people who are just making it because the wind was at their back. That's my point.
It's like, hey, I want interest rates to go down so that I can just exist easier.

Speaker 9 I can exist easier. Even if interest rates go down, I still am looking for whatever additional advantage or bigger arbitrage, even beyond the interest rates going to that point.
That's right.

Speaker 9 Because you're actually going to do the work.

Speaker 9 It comes down to the people willing to do the work and fight through the times and find the ways and look around the corners, even if the interest rates were low again.

Speaker 9 You're still trying to find a way and look around the corners and do more than the average person. If everybody's making money.
Yeah.

Speaker 9 Are you actually making money? No. You're just pacing the time.
Right. You're pacing the time.
It's like, hey, you know what?

Speaker 9 I bought this house for X amount of dollars and I bought this house for 200. I sold it for 500.

Speaker 9 Okay, so you made 300K in two years, three years, whatever. Great.
Well, how much was your next house? Oh, it was 500K because we bought a bigger house. So did you really make money?

Speaker 9 You just paste the time. I don't want to just paste the time.
I actually want to arbitrage and make money above what is just considered existing for that moment. All right.

Speaker 9 So you've done better than you ever have, and you're talking about networking. I know the answer again,

Speaker 9 but you're a believer, and you cut the checks to the table to get around the right people. Absolutely.
What has that meant to your business to be able to cut checks?

Speaker 9 And I know you've done multiple masterminds, multiple coaching programs. You've had one-on-one coaching.

Speaker 9 You've cut, I mean, how much do you think you've spent to be in the right rooms with the right people in the last year and a half? Hundreds of thousands. Hundreds.

Speaker 9 So, and what has that meant to your business?

Speaker 9 the the people behind me and the names could you give it could you actually pinpoint like an roi on your spend if you spent 200 grand do you think you tripled that in the last year and a half probably it's probably pretty accurate but the funny thing about it it doesn't

Speaker 9 it doesn't stop there right because it's a constant thing so technically it's it'll exponential yeah it'll get infinite it becomes almost infinite yeah you said it so perfectly because the investment you make today, let's just say you spent a hundred grand this year.

Speaker 9 I'm just making the number up.

Speaker 9 If you end up over 10 years making $4 million from three relationships because you got in the room and those three relationships gave you this book of business and this business idea and

Speaker 9 you can't put a price on it.

Speaker 9 And you'll never know. Too many people are like, I don't know if I want to join the mastermind.
I don't know if I want to get coaching.

Speaker 9 I don't know if I want to, but then they're going to play the mediocre game.

Speaker 9 And we just talked about your drive and push regardless of the economy, but they're going to be mediocre forever because because they're just waiting for the time where the wind's at their back so that it could be easier for them so that they can, you know, have an easier time making more money.

Speaker 9 And the other thing I would say too is

Speaker 9 I recognize very early on, early 20s, how valuable that

Speaker 9 education, learning, networking, because the sooner I started it,

Speaker 9 the the longer in the course of my life I had the benefit of it. If I'm,

Speaker 9 you know, starting this at 55, 60, great. If that's where you're at, you should do it.

Speaker 9 At the same time, if someone's 22 right now, 28, 30, you should be doing it right away because the sooner you do it, the longer you have the benefit of it.

Speaker 9 I just had a 19-year-old join my coaching program, 10 grants, 19 years old, right?

Speaker 9 And I'm like pouring into this kid because the fact that he had the credit score to get a credit card and then used it because his understanding of making an investment to be around me and my team of people, like I will do anything I can to help this kid be successful just because of his own willingness to believe what you and I already know.

Speaker 9 I'm 43. Like it took, it takes a long time to realize that.
And especially at 19, I was an idiot.

Speaker 9 Yeah, it's cool to see it.

Speaker 9 But yeah, I mean, so the networking is a big deal for me. I'll continue to do it.

Speaker 9 There's a social aspect to it that I really enjoy as well that I think is maybe even one of the underlying

Speaker 9 benefits as well. Yeah.

Speaker 9 I mean, you create real relationships, real friendships, friendships that are going to last because, you know, the high school friends and then the college friends, you fade away because you don't have the same things in common anymore.

Speaker 9 Yeah. Right.
Yep.

Speaker 9 And so, dude, I greatly appreciate you being on this podcast, dude. And again, everyone, make sure you are following him.
Where can they all find you? Where's the best place to find you?

Speaker 9 Where can they search you out? Ask you more questions.

Speaker 9 And by the way, if you think we've given good advice, if you like this, if you're able to take something from it, share this with two of your friends at least. But where can everyone find you?

Speaker 9 So I'll make sure they can spell my name. First off, it's Michael, M-I-C-H-A-E-L.
Last name, I-U-C-U-L-A-N-O.

Speaker 9 And then

Speaker 9 just type in my name on there's only a couple of me in the world with that last name, so it's pretty hard not to find me. But yeah, Michael Iglano on most of the social networks.

Speaker 9 So, yeah.

Speaker 9 Cool. Well, I appreciate being here, man.
It'll be great. There's a lot of business to be done.
If you're looking for hard money lending, are you national in certain states?

Speaker 9 Where do you lend? We're national. We mostly focus in California, Arizona, Florida, Texas, Utah, Tennessee, North and South Carolina,

Speaker 9 Georgia.

Speaker 9 And I think that's it.

Speaker 9 If you need a great lender, someone that I trust, someone I would recommend to, look them up, ping them, hit him on a DM and say, hey, I have another property that I need a lender on. He's our guy.

Speaker 9 Appreciate you, dude. Thank you, man.
Cool, cool. See you guys on the next episode with another killer guest.
Make sure to share this to your friends. Peace.

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