433 - Steve Bannon Emergency Podcast

Steve Bannon, thank you.

Thank you, man.

For coming on.

I appreciate it.

Thank you for coming to the war room. We were just talking about New York and that you like New York.
Love New York. New York's my favorite city.
Why is it? Well, Hong Kong's my favorite city, but New York's- Hong Kong is amazing. I can't go there anymore because I've been banned.
I've been sanctioned by the Chinese Communist Party. Really? Yeah, I'm the only civilian in history.
So at one minute afternoon on the 20th of January, 2021, the Chinese Communist Party fully sanctioned four people, Mike Pompeo, Matt Pottinger, who's a deputy national security advisor, Peter Navarro, myself. I was a civilian at the time.
It's the only time a civilian. So I can't have any association with any Chinese company.
I can't go to Taiwan or can't, I guess I could go to Taiwan. I can't go to Hong.
I can't go to Shanghai. And I lived in both of those places for a while.

So I love, love Hong Kong, love Shanghai.

That's unfortunate.

But New York, you're good.

Good.

You're still good.

Good.

You can come.

So, yeah, no, I used to live in New York, 15 Broad,

down on Broad Street, Brooklyn Heights,

and up right across in the public library.

It's great.

When did you first meet Donald Trump?

Met Trump in the public library. It's great.
When did you first meet Donald Trump? Met Trump in, in August of 2010 before that midterm election. Okay.
A guy named Dave Bossy I was making films for as a documentary director said, you know, what are you doing tomorrow? I was cutting a couple of editing a couple of films. I said, well, I'm editing these films.
I got to get out before the election in September. And he says, well, can you go up and take a meeting with me tomorrow? And I go, no.
And he says, well, I really need you to come with me. And I go, why? He says, well, I'm going to go up and meet Donald Trump.
I go, that's great. But, you know, I'm slammed.
I'll just, I don't need to meet Trump. I'll just skip the meeting.
He goes, no, no, you got to come up to come up because making a presentation he's thinking about potentially running for president and he wants to go through what it would take you in a primary and i said of what country right it's just not it's just not feasible at the time i didn't think and then so we went up made up dave is probably a four-hour presentation i gave the kind of the populist part of it. And I realized right away what a serious guy he I tell people, he's the only person in that time, I spent a ton of time in DC.
And of course, obviously in New York, but I said what would take hours to explain to somebody at Goldman Sachs and McKinsey about the Chinese Communist Party and the trade deficit and everything that they wouldn't believe because they think we're like building each other's country. Trump got immediately.
I mean, he had a very deep understanding of China, had a very deep understanding of the trade deficit. He was kind of a student of Lou Dobbs.
Lou Dobbs had been hammering this for 20 or 30 years. And Trump religiously watched Lou Dobbs and then, of course read all the papers and it came to a very different conclusion than the elites in this country that our relationship with china at the time was healthy for the country was not and trump knew that not just intuitively had a very deep understanding of that and so when i left he also he would ask me because it was the tea Party.
Right. That November was the biggest.

The Republican Party won 63 seats in the House.

Right.

It was a massive thing for the Tea Party.

And Trump, so I was given, Dave was kind of a standard stock Republican conservative.

I was giving him the Tea Party and the populist nationalist pitch.

And Trump goes, well, that's what I am.

And a popularist. And I go, no, no, no, no.
It's populist. And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, popularist.
And I go, no, it's actually a populist. And he goes, no, it's a popularist.
So I just quit trying to change it. And then on the train on the way back, we took the Assela back.
I'm sitting there thinking about the meeting and I turned to Boston. I said, you know, he actually understands things at a deeper level.

I understand what he means by, I think

I get what he means by populist. Remember, he's a

McLuhan-esque figure. Everything

like Marshall McLuhan, the media is the massage,

the media about modern communication

theory for mass communication.

Trump understands that at such

a deep level. At a cellular level.

Cellular level that people don't understand like he understands. Even his detractors, the people who hate him, don't get it.
Don't get it. Don't get it.
And they don't understand his power. And they, they, what's, what's amazing to me is I've grown up, you know, I'm 40 and I've grown up and I've, I've seen, you know, I paid attention to politics for the majority of my life.
Every election, you know, is some type of referendum on something.

I've never seen a party as out in the wilderness right now as a modern Democratic Party.

They don't know how to deal with him.

They don't understand his appeal.

You said this brilliantly on another interview.

They've never fully been interested in why he was popular. They're only getting interested now.
And that was something brilliant that I thought was very interesting. Remember, he's a Democrat.
I'm a Democrat. I come from a working class Irish Catholic democratic family, union family.
He's a Democrat. We understand the power.
Every major political movement in this country has been predicated upon working class and lower middle class people. It just has.
That's the power. Trump understands it.
That's his audience. That's when I say mass communication.
He understands how to have a emotional but also mental connection with a mass audience, working class. The Democratic Party has abandoned the working class.
What they are is you have these billionaires at the top, the Wall Street guys, the Silicon Valley guys. Then you have the credentialed class.
All these people with college degrees and Ivy League degrees are sitting there like on MSNBC telling you the way things are going to be. And then they have a kind of a mass of the poor right below the working.
They've abandoned the working class to us. This project on populist nationalism I've been working on for 15 years, 14 or 15 years, and they ceded the ground.
It wasn't that hard because if you go after and present yourself as somebody that could potentially be a solutions provider or at least prepared to listen, the working class is looking for solutions. They're looking for people to listen to them.
That's where Trump stepped in. He changed the Republican Party from a country club party to a party of working class people in under 10 years.
From the time I met him in 2010 to 2000, and he really started getting really involved in probably 2012, 13. In 10 or 12 years, he totally changed a party to be a working class party because in one of the big things, the Democrats just ceded it to us.
They didn't try to fight it. They're not trying to fight it today.
The people that actually speak about populism, Roe Kahana, who's very smart, talking about economic patron, or Fetterman, they're kind of on an island. You don't see- They're marginalized.
They're marginalized. You don't see them on- I keep telling them, I said that you don't see them.
It's one thing to talk populist. Another thing to get into it.
You don't see those guys on MSNBC every night. You don't see them talked about and pushed every day in democratic circles.
And these are the guys that are at least trying to come up with working class and populist solutions. And they're kind of on an island right now.
The Democratic Party has just totally seen it because that credential class, they're too precious to want to, you know, get down and kind of deal with working class issues. Why did Bernie Sanders, who had a similar position on immigration at one point to yours, maybe not exactly similar.
I don't know. He had it It was very similar.
We just lifted Bernie Sanders' shit.

I mean, come on.

We just took it.

He was 100%.

He said open borders is a Koch brothers proposal.

Like that's something they wanted.

Yes, he understood that.

And he understood they wanted to drive down wages.

At what point, and Bill Clinton said similar things.

Because Bill Clinton, remember, the Clinton's power all came from the white working class.

That's how they survived in Arkansas. That's how he won the presidency.
And that's how Hillary Clinton saved herself for at least for a while against Obama when Obama ran the tables on her in the primary in 2008. What changed in the Democratic Party? The cultural of it.
The cultural issues overwhelmed it and that's why Bernie Sanders never had a shot. As soon as he...
Look, the capitalist today the whole invasion of the 10 to 12 million, and I'm just talking about people that came from January 20th, 2021 when when Biden took office till Trump. Right.
That's a 10 to 12 million people. That was the Koch kind of corporate class, the Chamber of Commerce guys with the open borders people.
But what they did is they wanted to kill inflation by flooding the zone with low skilled workers. I mean, the Federal Reserve is very open about this.
They said they were going to do this. And they did it, that 10 to 12 million.
Well, Bernie Sanders, you can't defend American workers. You can't defend American citizens of every ethnicity and race until you're prepared to go hardcore in immigration.
You can't have the world come here to your own country. Your family's been here for generations busting their ass to make this country better and and to make the communities better and have the world come in here and compete with you not just working with the with the low skill jobs but also with the like the phoniness of the h1b visas and that we don't really have any legal immigration in this country it's all a scam so the h1b visa and i wanted to talk to you about it's the press wages the whole thing's the press wages and they and they're winning you were this is why bernie this is why bernie i say bernie sanders the reason people say was bernie bernie's a fucking pussy yeah he did he had two shots at the clintons the clintons are the epitome of the neoliberal neocon globalist okay and they're like the mafia right these are hard people there's nobody harder than hillary cl.
She's tough. He had two shots at her.
Yeah. I got brought into the campaign, not because I knew anything about politics.
I'd never been in a campaign office in my life, but I had focused for a couple of years working with Peter Schweitzer and other people on taking down the Clintons. I got brought in because they were so far behind that they needed somebody to, if you were going to win, you had to bring Clinton's numbers down because President Trump at that time, candidate Trump, you could argue anywhere from eight to 14 points down in mid-August of 2016.
To close that gap, you've got to bring the heat on Hillary Clinton. And I was brought in as that because I knew the Clintons.
And Bernie Sanders, I keep telling people, he had two shots at her, never laid a glove on as a pillow fight. Right.
If you're going to get those people, you got to get up in the grill and rip their face off because they're tough and they're neoliberal neocons. They're very vulnerable.
But Bernie had kind of ceded that ground. That's why he's not really had a much of an impact on this populist.
Think about it. We've had a populist nationalist revolt in this country.
And Bernie Sanders has been a marginal figure to it. How did that work? And in the Democratic Party today, this is why Roquehanna and Fetterman are kind of on an island.
They don't really have a huge constituency in the Democratic Party. What, in your estimation, I mean, you talk about is the age of Trump, which is clearly the age of Trump.
You said it started in 2008 with the Tea Party, with the bailouts.

This is, I think I've heard you say something like this, that the anger. The financial collapse.
The financial collapse. The financial collapse of bullshit.
Obama's administration largely chosen by Citigroup. You had a lot of people brought in from the financial sector.
And what do you think the response from the democratic party should have been? Well, first of all, you should have put these things and look, it would have taken steel balls, but you had to do it. Number one, we should have let the banker, we should have let Goldman Sachs go bankrupt.
We should have let AIG go bankrupt. Their argument would be that the entire global economy would collapse.

I mean, this is what they were saying to me.

I was in that business many years ago, and they were saying,

they were coming into our office going, if these bailouts are not signed, the American economy falls, and then the world economy falls within three days. Now, I don't know if that was— No, it's 100% true.
We know that from congressional testimony at the Banking Committee. So they put Lehman Brothers into bankruptcy on Monday, I think, the 15th in London first.
And they didn't realize Lehman Brothers was the center of the commercial paper market, which is what funds companies overnight for the cash because guys are not sitting there with liquid cash to run their operations. They're having investments or bonds or whatever.
The commercial paper market freezes. All of a sudden, you've got everybody in a free fall.
And on Thursday, Hank Paulson, who I used to work for at Goldman, and Bernanke, the head of the Federal Reserve Secretary of Treasury, go to Bush's office, into the Oval Office, and they say, hey, look, we need a trillion dollars cash infusion by 5 o'clock or the American financial system will collapse in 72 hours in the world financial system two days later. And Bush in a profile in courage goes, Hey, we checked the constitution.
It's not my problem. You got to go see this lady named Nancy Pelosi.
The only, they have the ability to kind of unlock, you know, to print that kind of money or to, you know, to, to authorize that they go up to Nancy Pelosi. And this is how, what the system's like.
There's a guy in Alabama that, that was on the, he was the minority side of the Republicans in the house on the banking committee. They made everybody put their blackberries and everything outside.
This guy, when they get out and talk about this, he texts his brokers and say, buy the QQQs. Short the market for tomorrow morning at the open.
Yeah, he made a couple hundred thousand bucks. In your mind, is that a coup? Well, no.
Here's what it is, is that you've got to have some accountability and responsibility. First, you've got to keep your head clear and say, well, hang on, because what Hank Paulson did is took care of Goldman.
They were in the conference rooms of Sullivan and Cromwell at that time preparing the bankruptcy of Goldman Sachs. Right.
They were in the boardroom of, they were in the conference rooms of Sullivan and Cromwell at that time preparing the bankruptcy of Goldman Sachs. They were in the conference rooms preparing the bankruptcy of GE Capital.
They were in the rooms, in the conference room, the big white street law firms preparing the bankruptcy of AIG. I mean, these companies were going down.
What they did on Goldman Sachs is that they signed a one-line thing that said, starting Monday, Goldman Sachs is a bank holding company, right? They just made it a bank holding company with one line. And so come Monday morning, they could go to the Fed window and borrow at 2%, lend it to their clients at 4%, and take that – that VIG would be a couple of billion dollars a month.
That would kind of bail them out. They got a bailout.
All these, everyone, GE Capital, Merrill Lynch, all of them got bailouts. And this is all on the backs of the taxpayer.
But the little guy, $35,000. The little guy, first off, the little guy didn't get a bailout.
Worse, Hispanic and black, particularly working class, where the guys got wiped out of their equity in their homes. Right? Because all these, all the CMOs, all the mortgage packages collapsed.
So guys, they just blew them out, turned it over to the banks. The banks walked in and were picking these things up for 50 cents of the dollar.
Not that they wanted them at the time, but the equity holders, you had a generation of particularly minority homeowners that got zeroed out. My point is that, yes, there probably had to be some balance, but not the way it's done.
And people say, well, Bannon, why are you talking about it? Because the way we put this money in, they got like, got recouped and got like 12%. I said, yo, dude, at Goldman Sachs, if companies in trouble like that, you walk in, you blow out management, you blow out the equity, you lend them the money, the new management team gets to earn into 20% of the equity.
And then the guys that put the money up get a bunch of warrants. Where's the warrant package for the little guy? Go back to 2008.
There are no guarantees for the American taxpayer. Nothing.
Zero. They got paid back the money and they got some returns.
But what you should have gotten is some sort of package to own. You should have owned these companies.
I would even say quasi-nationalized the banks. They proved that they incapable a lot of people in this town nervous when the way you more on wall street yeah well that's what i mean but i mean like fuck them you got if you're not making them nervous you're not doing your job as the whole game is the game is totally rigged it's completely rigged against the little guy the little guy in the same time they went to silicon valley did a deal with the oligarchs the little guy in this country and, and this is a revolt, the guy making $35,000, $45,000 a year, right? The entire world's system rests on his shoulders, okay? Not just the American economy and paying the taxes here, but the kind of the post-war international rules-based order, which is if you look at the Eurasian landmass from Western Europe and NATO to the Middle East, Persian Gulf, to around the Straits of Malacca and South China Sea, up to Japan, around the rim of the Eurasian landmass, you have these four big nodes.
And there you have commercial relationships, capital markets, trade deals, which were upside down on everyone on. You have some sort of a little bit of cultural back and forth, but you have an American security guarantee.
It's the reason our defense budget is a trillion bucks. So it's the reason our dollar has value.
It has value, but that dollar during the, during the, yes, we're the prime reserve currency after Bretton Woods. And that's how you have to, we took it over from the Brits.
That's how you run an empire. We were a hegemon, least for a moment in time but the question now because of the drop in purchasing power the inverse of inflation right over biden's thing this is why you have the brics nations saying hey maybe we got to get on a different system maybe we got the brics nations brics are brazil russia india china and south africa started with that these nations that have natural resources that were kind of binding together saying, hey, the West, right, really Western Europe and particularly the United States are screwing us, right? We are selling them their natural resources at dollars and these dollars are depreciated over time.
They're doing a devaluation on us. And so they were going to bind together first.
They kind of figure almost like think about, hey, how do we how do we redo the cartels like the OPEC back in the 90s?

Think of that. Then it became maybe maybe our combined purchasing power.

Maybe we do another currency. We bundle together.

Maybe it's China. The CCP was always trying to destroy the U.S.

And Trump just comes out the other day and says, hey, BRICS nations, I love the fact you're having conferences and talking about some sort of go back security. Anybody even thinks about putting 100% tariff on everything, right, to try to blow them up.
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But back to the financial crisis, you have a collapse, and here's the problem I got with them. It's not capitalism.
You've socialized the risk. In other words, if it collapses, the little guy bails it out.
But you give unlimited upside to the elites. In the history of this nation, the greatest concentration of wealth in our history took place in the Obama administration.
On the surface of it, he's the most progressive guy. And he's doing some stuff.
But that's all pro wrestling. And where it really matters, money and power.
They have the greatest concentration of wealth to the top 1% because what they did is they took the balance sheet of the Federal Reserve, which is about $880 billion in Bushes there. And they basically flooded the zone with liquidity to prop up real assets, real estate assets and stocks and bonds.

And so if you owned financial real assets, that run you had, which you had nothing to

do with, they took the interest rates to zero.

And by the way, zero interest rates kills the little guy because you've got your little

passbook savings account or checking account, you get no interest.

So for those five or six years, when interest rates are near zero, big guys can borrow the money, but you're sitting there and you have no capital accumulation because your little savings account, checking account, has no interest on it. So everything was to benefit the wealthy and the power guys.
And quite frankly, Geithner and the people at the Fed knew this, and they had some guy named Christopher Leonard wrote a book called The Lords of Easy Money. He went back and read all of the all of the conferences and meetings of the Federal Reserve governors, which, by the way, is kept secret for 10 years.
He went back to the 10 year and he's got the transcripts where the guy I think was Dick Fisher in in in, in the fed chair in, um, in Dallas is sitting there when they're doing this. He goes, Hey, you understand we're going to eviscerate the working class in this country.
We're going to destroy the middle class. We're propping up this entire bailout on these guys' shoulders and they get nothing.
In fact, not only are they going to pay for it, they're going to get crushed because of these zero interest rates of which they can't get access to capital.

That's exactly what happened.

That's the time I realized every time you've had a financial crisis in the world, you've

had a populist reaction.

And that's when I said this will, now I didn't meet Trump two years later or really get to

know him, you know, politically until like 2013 or 14.

But I knew as sure as the turning of the earth, you were going to have a populist reaction to that. You had it first in the Tea Party, and then later you had it in the Trump MAGA movement.
But this has played out pretty much to the way that it normally plays out. And we're still in a horrible situation.
We haven't gotten to 2008. More importantly, nobody associated with that collapse

that made all that money and all those fees beforehand.

Nobody's been held accountable.

Nobody.

Do you think that, fast forward to the situation that we see now,

where we're talking largely about the financial industry

that's very cozy with government.

You have Hank Paulson going in.

Cozy, it owns the government.

It's not cozy, it owns the government.

It owns the government.

Lock, stock, and barrel.

It seems to me, and perhaps to you, that there is another industry right now moving in that wants to own the government.

And that is the tech industry.

Yeah, big tech.

Very cozy, very close with the government.

You've been outspoken, and you're one of the only people who's been publicly outspoken about the dangers of that.

Well, at the point... Josie, very close with the government.
You've been outspoken, and you're one of the only people who's been publicly outspoken about the dangers of that.

Well, at the same time, right after 2008, this is when Obama became aware of the power of social media.

There's this famous meeting at San Francisco Airport where the guys at Facebook come to him with his team, and they tell him about the power of Facebook because he's running as a populist outsider against the Clinton machine.

Nobody gives Obama a chance. He's an anti-war populist outsider.
Nobody gives him a chance at first against the Clinton apparatus, right? The Clinton mafia. He does this, a lot of it's through social media.
They have an implicit bargain later with the oligarchs in what I call the algorithmic age.

They allow the, you know, the Facebooks, the Twitters,

the Googles, all the big platforms,

the big platforms that charge,

they essentially reach a Faustian pact,

which is we're a hegemon globally, right?

And what we need to do in the age of the algorithm

is keep the commanding heights of technology. So we make an implicit deal with the oligarchs.
You're going to have no Justice Department interference, no Federal Trade Commission interference. We're not going to try to break you up.
They're going to have no antitrust pressure at all. We're going to allow you to become the richest people on earth, okay? But you have to give us the commanding heights in the age of algorithm.
And here's what have we found out that we're what 10 or 12 years into this. And we know on the two in the age of algorithm, social media and, and AI, they've blown them both on social media.
If you look at our social media, it's fairly cumbersome. It's not exactly revolutionary.
TikTok is much bigger. TikTok is not just bigger.
It's so much more sophisticated. A thousand times.
The Chinese Communist Party, it's so lethal because of its addictive nature. TikTok is not on mainland China.
They have a version of TikTok that's not so addictive, and they don't let the content they let in the West. This is how we've blown it as far as social media goes their orders of magnitude more sophisticated we are and ours is quite addictive but theirs is much more but then on artificial intelligence is even worse it's and now what do you think deep seek is a psyop or sputnik moment right right it's both bad but let's I think you have to defer the fact it may be a Sputnik moment.
They are basically saying that our, our theory of the case in artificial intelligence was kind of mass machine learning, right? Power through and you need all this new energy for the data centers. They're saying that theirs is a totally different profile.
So what happens? We've lost the commanding heights in the two very technologies in the algorithmic age we made the Faustian bargain on with these guys. There's 75 electric vehicle companies.
Google has Bing and DuckDuckGo. There's no competition for Google.
There's no competition of Facebook. There's no competition Amazon.
Amazon destroyed half the small businesses in this country, flooding the zone with Chinese Communist Party product. There's no competition to really competition to to X or to Twitter because we let them go.
And there's no Justice Department. That's what I'm a neo Brandeisian when it comes to the Justice Department.
Here's the I'm a Lena Khan fan. You're a Lena Khan fan.
Break them up. Break them up.
If she had been allowed into look, here here's Kamala. When Steve Bannon talks about Lena Khan 10 times more than Biden, and particularly Kamala Harris, that tells you it's a fix is in the Democratic Party.
It's controlled by all these corporatists. This is the thing of Trump.
You've got Gail Slater. You've got Andrew Ferguson.
You then have Mike Davis and others in War Room that are neo-Brandeisians and kind of think, hey, Linda Kahn, we'd love to have her back. Explain that term to people.
From Brandeis, Justice Brandeis, Louis Brandeis, had this theory back in the 30s that you have to watch out for private concentrations of power that would then partner with government. If you wanted to get to a totalitarian government, right, you would have major concentrations of private power built around monopolistic.

They often call it the corporate state.

Corporate state.

Yeah, exactly.

And says that is a danger to liberty and freedom.

Right now, he was he was an FDR guy, et cetera.

You've had it.

Then a school came up in kind of the 80s from Chicago called the Chicago School that really looked at it from consumer pricing.

Right. That everything's got to be to the benefit of the consumer.
And so it's kind of a gentle way to go on antitrust. It's buying people off.
It's going, your jobs don't exist anymore, but the t-shirts are less money. Exactly.
Exactly. Or even in competition, when they look at mergers, that what's the price? And they do all these kind of Cato, it's a very libertarian school.
It hasn't worked. And it's just basically we can immiserate your lives,

but if we give you enough creature comforts,

if we give you Netflix, if you can door dash Taco Bell,

which I've done, and I'll admit that,

but if you can do all of those things,

stop complaining that you can't send your kids to college.

Exactly.

That's kind of the layman's way to say.

And so in Neo-Brandeisian is to get back

to what Louis Brandeis said,

is that these great concentrations, which was really.

That's the last time.

If I'm ever asked to leave a plane, if I'm ever dragged off a plane for heaping abuse on a flight attendant who deserves it, I'm going to scream.

I'm a Neo-Brandeisian as I'm dragged off the plane.

You'll get that.

What Brandeis saw, though, is the Chinese Communist Party's model.

Remember, we did all this after Tiananmen Square when Bush 41— You'll get that. What Brandeis saw, though, is the Chinese Communist Party's model.

Remember, we did all this after Tiananmen Square when Bush 41 sent Skullcroft over to say, no, we're going to get you. You've got to calm down this political stuff.
But we see you as a partner on the manufacturing side on a global basis. We will get you in the World Trade Organization.
We will give you most favored nation status. We'll do all this.
and the theory, they said, oh, we will take the Chinese Communist Party and turn them into a liberal democracies. These will all become Jeffersonian Democrats.
The exact opposite happened. We recreated their model of state capitalism and authoritarian power.
And that's what you have today with the oligarchs in Silicon Valley. Now, here's the beauty of it.
Here's how great the oligarchs are. That we've made them the most, we've made them the richest people on earth.
We've made them some of the most powerful people on earth. And then exactly when they're exposed for being phonies and what you made the Faustian bargain for on both social media and particularly artificial intelligence, what do they do? They flip.
Hold it. They do.
Let me get to the flip in a second. They turn around they turn around say we need a bailout they say all you hear right now is that in this city you're hearing we need a marshall plan we need a mercury astronauts plan we need to turn over all the national labs the weapons labs lawrence livermore sandia where they where they made the nuclear weapon the hydrogen bomb we need to turn all the national labs to the guys in silicon valley because now we've had a Sputnik moment and the Chinese Communist Party have taken the commanding heights.
I go, hang over a second. This is a, and they're talking 500 billion to a trillion dollar bailout for the exact same guys that did this.
In addition, understanding the math, right, and Elon understood it first given his engineer's brain and really backed our play, but the rest of them hung out until 11 o'clock p.m. Eastern Standard Time on the 5th of November when Pennsylvania fell.
When Pennsylvania fell, you know, Zucker, Bezos, all of them became populist nationalists. They go, we're in.
And they got down with their checks to Mar-a-Lago, genuflected, right, and became supplicants to Trump. And this is why I say these guys are dangerous.
They're all progressive Democrats. They were made what they are by the Obama administration.
They're all progressive Democrats. They are totally phony.
All they want to do is go to where the source of money is so they can keep them being oligarchs. Because right now, if you look at them and look at who the theoreticians they look for, But they're not really on the spectrum of like MSNBCs here and, you know, war rooms here and some guys are more open borders and Globus and others are hardcore populous nationalists.
They're on a whole other spectrum. And that spectrum is what I call techno feudalism.
They've been taken out of the world of capitalism. It's no longer markets and profits since we haven't allowed any competition and allowed these massive companies.
They are really digital platforms in rent. They're rent secrets, okay? And their idea is very feudalistic.
It's like Venice in the 15th century. It is that the railhead is like the liege lord with the digital platform and everybody else is a peasant or what I call a digital surf.
And this is how you're going to run it. And they have this network.
They call it the network state. There's books out about it now.
Let's talk about it. And this is what these guys believe.
And it's quite dangerous. And this is why I think you've seen the impersonal nature of what's happening at Doge, which I support going after the administrative state.
Well, that's always been a theme of yours. You want the deconstruction of the administrative state, of the bureaucracy.
Yes. What is Elon doing and what is the Doge team doing that you wouldn't do or would do differently? Let's talk about three things on Elon.
Number one, his biggest supporter, I have given him more credit than anybody. Number one, he was the first of the oligarchs, because I think of his engineering brain, to really look at where we were politically.
And he worked through the math to say, hey, look, this Trump thing is actually this populist nationalist movement, which is what I call MAGA plus, plus low information voters, plus part of the Make America Healthy Again, these housewives who were red-pilled during the pandemic, particularly about what their children were being taught in school. That's right.
And the health thing with the mask, kind of the Nicole Shanahan crowd, right? That's right. Malibu moms.
Now, around Trump, there's always, you have to understand, there's always a countervailing tension with Trump, with people who want Trump to be more Trump. Right.
Versus those say you've got to calm down, you'd be nice and look for the mythic, traditional suburban mom that if you say nicer things, she'll vote for you. I keep saying that's never going to happen.
Elon came in at a time in the campaign in the spring and summer of 2024 when that was actually being talked about. He sat down with Charlie Kirk's guys and worked through the math of a ground game, a ground game we supported to do this MAGA+.
The brother wrote a quarter of a billion dollars in checks, $250 million, $50 million a month over five months. and I tell people, if you don't know about American politics today,

when you see huge donors like the Adelson's or the Mercers and people talking about putting in $100 million, $150 million,

that's over a cycle, a presidential cycle.

This brother wrote $250 in the last five months,

$50 a month to back a ground game,

not to put it up on fancy commercials,

which most of the billionaires get picked off with.

Number one, he backed our play. Would President Trump have won without that? Yes.
But we wouldn't have known that answer at 10 or 11 o'clock on the Tuesday, the 5th. That would have probably taken a couple of days to work through.
And I'm not so sure we'd have had 53 guys in the U.S. Senate, probably 51.
It had been much tighter. Okay.
And it was tight enough already. So he definitely had a huge aspect.
Number two, he immediately got, like nobody else has got, the deconstruction of the administrative state. He understands that we have a fourth branch of government that's not in the Constitution.
That's kind of a permanent government. And they don't care if Trump's passing through or AOC or Bernie Sanders are passing through.
They run the deal like they're going to run. And here's what it is.
When you take over the government, when you win, you get 4,000 people. You get 3,000 that can hit the day place running immediately.
OK, all you need there is basically a security clearance, right? A pass on drugs, right? And a security clearance. And you can go and you can staff at these mid-level and junior levels immediately.

You get 1,000 that have to be Senate confirmed. Those are your senior people.
But you have 4,000. In the government, you have about 2.5 or 3 million civilians.
You have about 2.5 million to 3 million military. So let's say 5 to 6 million there.
Plus you have contractors. Another, at executive level, another 5 million.
So it makes sense. You have about 10 million people that run this apparatus that cost $6.5 to $7 trillion a year to run, right? Or it transfers money, but it costs a huge amount of money to run.
Plus it oversees, I don't know, $60 or $70 trillion of assets, right? All the land, all the oil, everything that we control. That apparatus is so out of control that in order to get down to a sustainable model, we're going to actually get close to a balanced budget.
It's got to be deconstructed. You have to take that apart, right? It's got to be made smaller.
And you got to make some tough decisions because programmatically they do a lot of things. And quite frankly, with the economic distress we have and the corporations bailing on paying decent wages because they've invited the world in here to compete with American labor in American labor's home, that you have more working class people on Medicaid.
You have more people on economic security like food stamps. So it's a tough call.
But he saw immediately this is how you have to do it. And if you're ever to get to the deep state, which is the aspects of the Pentagon intelligence community,

intelligence, you got, you got CIA, and CIA people should know,

and I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

I came to this through hard evidence of seeing it in the first term.

And you have this, you basically have the CIA,

you have aspects of the DNI crowd, which is 17 separate,

Thank you. evidence of seeing it in the first term and you have this you basically have the cia you have aspects of the dni crowd which is 17 separate intelligence of national intelligence which has everything everybody's got nsa has got the guy they can look into your funds they know everything that's going on everything then you've got the justice department with aspects of that and you got dhs with atf and others you got the fbi have elements of the Defense Department, like DIA.
That is the deep state. And what I say is it's like the Praetorian Guard in the Roman Empire.
They are actually so powerful now that they can decide, like the Praetorian Guard is who's the emperor and who's not. This is why they turfed out Trump, and they basically plugged in Biden.
Would you agree with this? Somebody who's smart described this as a parallel command structure that is existing outside of the executive branch where the president is not read into certain intelligence. He's lied to about troop levels in Syria and things like that.
They're conducting business with countries outside of the purview of the White House. And somebody called this a parallel command structure.
I would only difference I would make you a hundred percent correct. It's not parallel.
It is the command structure. When you sit there, when you sit there and get a briefing from these people, they will look you in the eye and lie to you.
But I was put in charge in the first days of working with people like Eric Prince and others to come to a plan.

The president wanted out of Afghanistan.

We'd already been there, I think going on 18 or 19 years in,

in the Pentagon and the apparatus.

And I keep saying it, I never called it the deep state.

It says not a deep state. It's up in your face.
Right.

And they will sit there and make up their own numbers and lie to you.

Just, I talked to him at one time. I said, listen, I gave him some points in time about briefings.
I want, I said, I want to see the briefing of this about Afghanistan over the 20 years, this time, this time, this time, this time, this time. And cause I knew what they were going to show.
They were going to show every time telling whether the president was Bush or Obama, that, hey, we're here. If we just have more money in three years, it's going to be perfect.
It's like seeing these small companies. Who's driving this agenda? Is it Raytheon, General Dynamics? It's a combination of people.
It's a council on foreign relations. It's definitely the outside companies, but it's also the guys like Brennan, as people have been here been here forever, been in the intelligence community.
Brennan is the guy that keeps coming up. Bad dude.
Should be in prison. As a very dangerous individual.
He's a dangerous person. Dangerous, but there's- Clapper's a dangerous guy.
There's a hundred. Clapper, Hayden, those are the guys you see at the very top.
Yeah. But they also have coaching trees like Belichick, et cetera.
Of course. So it's deep into the apparatus.
And the apparatus, and this is the thing they have called the interagency. Did they have anyone in the Trump White House, the first one? Yeah.
Okay. So I asked Mike Flynn.
I said, look, let me see the charts. This is the first day.
I want to see the charts for the National Security Council. When I came off sea duty in the 70s and came back, I came back to the Pentagon

to be a special assistant

to the Chief of Naval Operations,

basically a junior officer, Grandun.

This is in 1981 when Reagan was like,

the guys in the Pentagon at that time

thought the National Security Council ran the world.

National Security Council had 25 people.

You had Kissinger, you had Brzezinski,

and then they picked Richard V. Allen

because they didn't want some Dr. Strangelove type.
Reagan didn't. That had 25 or 30 people.
You'd had Kissinger, you had Brzezinski, and then they picked Richard V. Allen because they didn't want some Dr.
Strangelove type. Reagan didn't.
That had 25 or 30 people. And the guys in Pentagon said, these fuckers run the world, right? They're too powerful.
Flynn comes back on the first, like the first day, goes down with Jared and the president. He's got these charts like this.
I said, Mike, I didn't want to see the entire national security apparatus. I don't want to see the Pentagon.
He goes, no, no, this is the national security council. I go, what? 292 billets.
If you look at it, it's they're into everything. And I go, my God, I said, how many political appointees we got? He says about 40 or 50.
I said, well, Hey, heck no offense. We don't know 40 or 50 MAGA guys that step in there right now.
We have to get rid of some of these. These are called detailees.
They come from the Pentagon. They come from the CIA.
They come from DNI. They come from DHS.
It's essentially the way the deep state runs the system. They have, think about it, with 292 billets, they have.
Billets meaning? Slots where a person goes. Where somebody goes, yeah.
It's 292 bodies, but they have a billet, boom, where they plug a person in. We wanted to get rid of those.
So they know that new administrations coming in are not always going to have these 200, 300 people. No, Obama.
No. In fact, it's impossible.
First of all, you don't even have the allocation of political appointees. But you might have 25.
25. So that's the thing.
So by making it larger. And they have a phrase.
I call it their fetish. They have a thing called the interagency process.
In other words, everything has to go through. The CIA's got to sign off.
The State Department, you've got to remember, the CIA has a military aspect to it. The State Department has an intelligence aspect to it.
The deep state is like kudzu. And it's run by the CIA.
The CIA controls behind behind the scene and the cia is run by the billionaires well the cia reports to first off an elite class of americans have just been you know the from the oss to the cia very ivy league when i talk about the credential class the traditional control of the cia has been kind of ivy harvard yale harvard law school yes princeton And a little bit of that's has been kind of Ivy League. Harvard, Yale, Harvard Law School.

Yes, Princeton.

A little bit of that's changed, but not the mentality.

The very mentality is that-

Cold War liberalism.

They are the guardians of this republic.

That's right.

Right?

And you have these politicians, whether they're clowns like Bill Clinton or neophytes like Obama or dangerous individuals like Trump, they can wander in and out, but they are the guardians of the republic, very like Plato's guardians. They are the guardians of this republic.
America has become a hegemon because of them. They decide we're going to stay in the Ukraine for three years.
First off, they decide why. And this is one of the things I told McMasters.
He would sit there and go, we've got the greatest team, and we're going to do all this. I said, dude, I said, you've had Bush, you've had Obama, and now you've got us.
You've had a center-right group of neoliberal conservatives in Bush. You've had the biggest group of progressives ever under Obama.
And I said, we're here for 20 years. I said, you've had smart guys around this table.
Why has it never changed? And the reason it never changes is that the neoliberal neocons have an, that apparatus of the deep state. And this is why I say if AOC or Bernie was there, they'd be just as dismissed.
This is what eventually impeached Trump. They saw Trump as such a danger.
This was the whole Russia hoax. This was a guy named Colonel Derek Harvey and an army sergeant called Higgins were two brilliant guys that understood this.
They actually went through and came back and made a presentation. Here are the deep staters that actually in the national security council, right? Here's, and here's who their names are in ranked order.
The ones that should, should be turfed out. The number one name was this Eric Camarillo guy who eventually was the whistleblower on the Trump call to Ukraine.
The guy, the

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The deep state is a real thing. And this is why you see President Trump going after Hammer and Tong right now.
Also, Elon's hitting it from a different angle. He's kind of going after the administrative state.
He'll get to the deep state because one of their slush funds, like USAID. USAID has essentially always been a CIA front that you see.
Yes. Do they have water projects in India? Do they have some stuff in sub-Saharan Africa? They do.
That's all on the surface to make you feel better. They're running this thing, particularly funding all the media against Orban in Hungary.
Funding money to all these source-backed institutions, NGOs, and NGOs on the southern border to do the invasion. A lot of that was funded by USAID.
I mean, this is somewhat unrelated, but I guess perhaps incredibly related. You know, why did the media take very little interest in the person who almost killed the president? It's% related they know it's the assassination time but think about it the media you know i was just watching the because of the classic on tcm the other night in the oscar month they had all the president's men right you go back and look it's great movie a great fabulous movie it's classic but if you go back and look at the 60s and 70s.
Yeah, they were killing them every other day. And the people, New York Times, the Washington Post, these people were anti-institutionalists.
They were all over the FBI. They were all over the CIA.
They were all over investigative reporting. That's completely flipped.
The Democratic Party, the mainstream media became the defenders of the institutions. This is why every night you hear them banging on us.
Oh, they're trying to get out of NATO. They're trying to do this.
They're trying to tear down. They got Kash Patel and Dan Bongino at the FBI.
They have Tulsi Gabbard. The Democratic Party, I think they know politically they're in a tough jam.
They became the defenders of a corrupt system. They became the defenders of institutions that clearly have to be at minimum reformed and I think, quite frankly, purged and taken down and rebuilt.
So they're defenders of that. All the mainstream media is the biggest defenders.
I mean, in the Washington Post, David Ignatius comes on Morning Joe. We call it the Langley Bugle, the Washington Post.
You're getting the pure thing from that. You're getting the CIA's point of view that day when you see Ignatius.
You see the same things in the New York Times, big reporters on defense. You're getting the Pentagon's perspective.
So the mainstream and liberal media have become – And this is just perpetual war for perpetual peace. Invade everywhere and invite everyone in.
Invite everyone in. And invade everywhere.
It's a Steve Saylor quote.

Invade the world.

Invite the world. Invite the world.
And then you have a citizenry here that's immiserated, that is paying for all these wars. Their lives are terrible and getting worse.
Getting worse. And their kids' futures are shot.
And they're manning. Remember, it's the kids, it's the family, it's the children of the of the of this eviscerated middle class and working class.
The kids are walking patrol in the Hindu Kush or with the 101st Airborne's Brigade in Romania on the Ukraine border or in the two carrier battle groups in the Red Sea. They're calling this democracy.
They're calling you a fascist. They're saying Steve Bannon's a fascist.
What he's describing right now is democracy. Have you noticed the way this is being presented? I'm sure you have.
Yes, 100%. And this is what I love about it.
We're winning elections. The guy in the woods with the goat head is democracy.
The council is democracy. You know what I mean? Well, they're total.
it's authoritarian. It's authoritarian model like the Chinese Communist Party.
They want a couple of industries, state capitalism, where they have elite merger, right, between big government and big business. They're the control things.
And what I find so laughable is we're actually winning elections. Let's take 24 after having the 2020 election stolen from us and being now de-banked, de-platformed.
I remember I'm de-platformed everywhere. War rooms.
How did they do that? When, when, when you talk about that, cause I will have to ask you, cause people will jump on that and they will say that nobody found any proof that no Republicans and no courts. Here's the proof.
Here's one of the pieces of proof we got in 2022. The people remember we got 63 and a half million votes in 16.
I thought we did a pretty damn good job. We got 74 million votes in 2020, including we picked up 12 house seats.
So you're telling me that just, you're telling me in a Nancy Pelosi, I think we won 14 and they won two. So net 12.
We picked up 12 house seats in that election. What do you think the mechanism is? It's mail-in ballots.
I'm not a machine guy. I think it's mail-in ballots.
It was very evident what they did in Pennsylvania and in Wisconsin and in Michigan. It was mail-in ballots.
And remember, he only won by the same margin that we did, the 72,000. You know, when you accumulate Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, that's what Biden won by.

You take the other states.

These are small numbers, right?

10,000 in Georgia, you know, 9,000 in Arizona.

It was mail-in ballots.

But here's the point.

Where are those guys – where they've gone since then?

They didn't vote in the midterm elections.

Right.

They didn't vote in 2024.

And so where are they?

Are they disorientated, disenchanted?

Or they don't exist?

They don't exist.

They don't exist.

They 100% don't exist.

They're disenchanted.

They don't hate Trump.

Oh, they only vote because they hated Trump.

They don't hate Trump any less.

They see him as a hero.

It's ridiculous.

We can win.

This is why on democracy, we love democracy, because you're not going to beat us right now our coalition is building right trump got 39 of black men in the country to vote for him not just that a lot of black men are just not going to vote for the democrats remember they don't vote for the democrats as one to us if they vote for us it's a two banger right hispanics star county texas a hardscrabbled county in in south texas 97 hispanic and blue collar the most hispanic county in the united states voted uh for hillary clinton by 60 in 2016 in 2024 trump won it by 16 the hispanic working class is coming our way the african-american working class is coming our way. The African-American working class is coming our way.

If in President Trump.

But this is why you've urged Elon Musk, be careful, Social Security and Medicare.

And Medicaid.

And Medicaid.

Medicaid.

I keep telling people, don't think, you know, in the old days, oh, Medicaid was an urban thing.

And I said, you can't take a meat axe to it.

I said, this is not about race anymore.

This is about economic distress.

If you go and look in Idaho and, you know, the American readoubt up in Montana and Wyoming and, you know, the Christian Redoubt, I think there's something like 80 or 90 percent of the babies born in Idaho are on Medicaid. Medicaid is now for the working class, the white working class and Hispanic and black.
These are our voters. Right.
You have to be very careful. Medicaid, you have to get the illegal ailments off and you have to put work requirements.
But just don think you can go and put a meat axe to it because you're gonna project to destroy the distinction between citizen and non-citizen is entirely not only to drive down wages but to kind of destroy any idea of what a contract a social contract and national identity yeah national identity yes and a contract between 1000 the citizens government saying, I am, I give you this, I am owed that. Yes.
But if we destroy the distinction between citizen and non-citizen, right. Look at the non, look at the non-citizens of Medicaid.
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's shocking, right? The non-citizens have been given everything. Look at, look at the 10 to 12 million illegal alien invaders.
And I don't blame them. You and I would do the exact same thing.
You were invited here by the federal government. People shouldn't, your audience should not lose track of the fact that in these reconciliation things we're talking about, for the mass deportations, it's $175 billion we're asking for, not just to secure the border, but for the mass deportation.
And you're talking really about the people that came in the last four years. I'm only talking, I don't, I'm right now not concerned about anybody that came in before January 20th of 2021, because the way I calculated, there's 10 to 12 million and plus, you know, a million bad hombres, right? Criminals.
I was in Danbury. Yeah.
10% of the prison. It's a prison of, for 800 people inmates has got 1,200.
Some of my family from Ireland came in the early 1900s. I think a few of them, just to get them out, just to make a point.
If I could write a few names down and you could pass it to Tulsi Gabbard, just to make a point that, hey, we don't know where it is. No, no, no.
I'm saying the guys coming over from Ukraine, you go to Montauk. You've said the H-1B visas where tech people are bringing in.
So my question to you is, and this is a question I asked. But remember, I'm hardcore.
To me, everything revolves around the American citizen. I don't care your ethnicity, your race, gender, or whatever, your religion.
If you're an American citizen, it should be like the Roman citizenship you get a special deal the whole system depends upon you the whole world's economic system comes down your shoulders you're paying the taxes to really finance the hegemon in addition your sons and daughters are the ones man you're in romania with the 101st you're on the carrier battle group in the red sea you're on patrol in in the South China Sea. You're defending the order.
You're defending the whole system, and yet you're the one that's screwed over consistently. That's got to flip.
Everything's got to be like, for instance, these visa programs. They shouldn't work unless they work for American citizens.
And what I mean by that- And you've criticized. You've said there's a lack of black and Hispanic people in tech.
Zero. Okay.
The most progressive thing about it,

the most progressive people on earth in the Obama administration created an

apartheid state. Silicon Valley is an apartheid state.

There's no blacks or Hispanics in the,

in the South Asians or Indians are there are there as indentured servants.

They're working for a third to 50% less than American citizens, often in kind of horrible conditions with four or five guys to a condo and working 20 hours a day seven days a week because if they complain they get the boot okay it's not acceptable but and and not just that the nekramaswamy says it's because americans are lazy and watched too much tv or they're not educated or they're they have not shown me me and, and cause they all backed off coming after me on H1B visas. I said, show me one thing.
I want to see one fucking billet, one person in any of those billets of the millions are here. One, show me one in that billet that has a better education or better skillset than an American.
They can't show me one. I, they can't show me one and they won't show me one because it doesn't exist.
It has nothing to do. And when the media says high skilled, these are not more, these are not high skilled.
This is basically, this is basically the, the essentially the mass programmers, right? This is not, it's all about getting it cheaper for one third, because most of the cost of these companies is in the programming, right? Or the technicians, the technical aspect of it. They pay one third to 50% less.
They have higher margins. They have higher stock prices.
They get bigger, bigger. Their warrant packages are worth much.
The math here is not complicated, but they can't show that the H-1B visas are bringing in more educated. We have plenty of educated people in the United States.
Now, people in the United States are going to want to get paid a certain amount because it's not going to pay against the world. Number two, being Americans, you've got a little cuss in this and grit.
This is what, hey, and you're going to be vocal about what working conditions are. That's what it means to be American.
That same grit and tenacity and getting up in people's faces is the same reason that we won World War II, the same reason we won the Cold War, the same reason they call on American. Those same Americans or their sons or daughters are on the carrier battle group in the South in the in the in the Red Sea.
You can't separate them. And here's the problem is we've invited the world.
It is not acceptable in this nation to bring in foreign workers to compete against American workers for these jobs is bullshit. It should be.
I want I want a total moratorium until we get sorted exactly what's going on. And until those billets on HB1, H1Bs were just so corrupt, I would shut it all down.
I mean, all of it. I deport immediately everybody.
I would give every billet in 60 days, every job in 60 days to an American citizen. And Bob's your uncle.
And we have to be this hardcore. Zuckerberg.
I am very hardcore in these things because if you don't take it to an extreme, you're never going to change it. The capitalists always want to have lower wages and more malleable population.
And it's not even capitalism. It's crony.
You know what I mean? It's the corporate state. Yes, it's the corporate state.
Zuckerberg. We don't have capitalism.
Bezos, Andreessen, guys like this. The reason, they're all oligarchs.
Do they love America? And what's, I mean. Fuck no.
But here's, listen. Their network, they're oligarchs.
What they love is their money and their power. Have they ever sacrificed for anything in this country? When President Trump came up for the first time and tried to to give working class people and it showed in the 2019 numbers that that blue collar wages increasing at a faster rate than white collar wages non uh college graduates higher than college graduates that they support him no they de-platformed he debanked him i think they have no do you see those guys volunteering to go overseas and defend their country no what they want to do is go to the the Pentagon and get a big fucking fat Pentagon contract, right, to leech off this nation.
No, they're not good guys. And I keep telling people in our party, don't think they support us because they don't.
They're very good at knowing where power is. And right now they think that before Obama and the Clintons were the power and Biden, now it's us that just like they betrayed them and flipped on them.

They flipped their creation of progressive Democrats.

They are progressive Democrats.

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Is Elon Musk using Trump? I don i don't listen i think he's a different category than i would say the other and look i'm not a fan on many aspects like but like i said on the on the on the two big ones backing our play in 2024 the deconstruction administrative state and the third which is you know this populist revolt going throughout the world which has has been very vocal of backing in places like England and in Germany. And I tell people, I said, look, this brother brings the two tactical nuclear weapons of modern politics, unlimited money to wit.
He wrote a $250 million check. It doesn't affect his, he's still got baby mamas lined up.
right? It doesn't affect his lifestyle, right? Plus he's got a platform. He can bind what he wants to bind and loose what he wants to loose.
He can drive up the awareness of something or crush it, right? So with those two things, there's not a centrist government in Europe that can withstand this. There's very little money in European politics.
The entire campaign for Brexit, which is really taking England's sovereignty back, and the Remain guys are very powerful. It's the establishment.
That entire campaign is about 25 million pounds. It's nothing.
So he's got unlimited power. And I think directionally, he's trying to do some good things.
I've got problems with one. Does it worry you that one person has that much power? It always worries me.
It worries me that the concentration of power in Silicon Valley and the concentration of power. Now, President Trump has a special relationship with him.
We all trust President Trump. President Trump stays on top of this.
It's just that you have to. One of my bigger problems with Elon Musk is transhumanism.
The number one of all the problems we have, we have massive financial problems, massive geostrategic problems, and massive immigration and sovereignty issues. All of those problems are solvable.
Tough decisions. We've let a lot of good alternatives go away.
It gets tougher and tougher every year. They can all be solved, and they can be solved by rational policies, and you can solve those in debate.
And some days you're going to win, some days you're going to lose. Underneath that, we have the most important time in the history of the Homo sapiens upon us.
We are converging on something called the singularity. And it's just not AI.
AI is one part of it. You have artificial intelligence and artificial general intelligence.
You also have regenerative robotics. You have quantum computing.
You have advanced chip design. You also have CRISPR and gene splicing.
Manipulation, yeah. Manipulation, that's all converging on a spot called the singularity.
On this side of that, you have the Homo sapiens. Something that's been around, I don't know, for 100,000, whenever all the other, you know, species fell aside, we survived, okay? So you have the homo sapien for, I don't know, 100,000 or a million years.
On the other side of that, you have homo sapien 2.0. And the pressure, as if people under 35 or 40 didn't have enough pressure on them, because have more pressure than any generation in this country i think a pressure on them of economically of socially you're now going to add another pressure which is for their children you know enhance yourself exactly or more even not yourself if you're saying no i'm gonna see this thing through is what i am and i'll make myself better but you look at your kids and you say hey look I worked my ass off and I went to an Ivy League school I went to a great university I became great in a sport I became great in my profession or my love my hobby whatever it was and you're gonna sit there and go let's chip the kids there's only so many slots at Harvard there's only slots at University of Michigan there's only so many slots at Wisconsin or Arizona the Chip the kids.
The whole world's chipping them. You're going to have these debates and you're going to sit there at night going, do I chip the kid or not? Honey, chip the kids.
Did he chip the kids? And I'm saying this is going to cause as a society and a civilization we're not ready to have that conversation yet. And by the way, it's going to drive politics.
Look at Elon. And this is why, because the industrialists in Silicon Valley are taking the typical easy way industrialists have.
In the issue about labor and about manufacturing, instead of still trying to do the great American innovation and kind of the Tom Peters management in search of excellence management by wandering around,

like having the R and D facility next to the manufacturing facility.

So the engineers could walk to the floor and see the artisans,

these guys and, and get production, you know,

better production experience, get down the learning curve,

make things better in American innovation,

which always our greatest was always our greatest power. What we did is we outsourced.
We just shipped the factories over to China because you know why? For efficiency, we want cheaper labor. It's easier to do that.
We keep the R&D here, and guess what? It was never the same again. But we got lower labor costs.
You either send it to China or you outsource it to India. That was the lazy way to do it, and it had a massive impact on, on manufacturing.
The same thing's happening in AI. And this is why people have to wake up.
AI has got two paths that can go down an efficiency path that I'm just going to use AI and blow out everybody under 35 years old. That's in their first administrative manager or tech job, or I can use it as an engine of innovation, right? To work.
And right now we're taking the,

just like the guys made the basic mistake of doing the, the, the, the,

the, what I call the, the mass type of AI,

which is the model that we're using, right?

Which is machine learning in a mass way that requires massive data centers,

massive replication, massive energy.

That's like chat GPT and things like this. Versus what DeepSeek is, right? Do you think DeepSeek is legit? Do you think they were able to accomplish this? Or do you think this is? I'm not smart enough to know.
I don't know either. Here's what I would say.
Even if it's a psyop, we have to, I think, assume, for the purpose of the discussion going forward, it may be a Sputnik or or quasi Sputnik moment and what we're going to do about it. Because now we're in a horrible situation because now the oligarchs come to us and say, well, Bannon, how can you sit there and say we should be broken up? How can you want Lena Kahn and your neo-Brandeisian? How can you want to break it up? Now more than ever, we need to have national champions.
Now more than ever, you must make another Faust must make another is there any point to that where they say we need supremacy in that they're saying now technology sector they're saying this is the 500 billion dollar ballot they turn to us and say we need a mercury program we need a marshall program you need to turn the national labs the taxpayers have to the taxpayers have the they ain't putting it up and the venture capitalists they're're looking for a bailout. Anytime you hear Mercury program, anytime you hear Marshall program, understand that's coming out of your paycheck.
And is this similar in your mind to when people say we need to go into Iraq and into Afghanistan and we need all this money? It's the same thing as the bailout of the banks. It's always looking for the bailout of the banks.
Yes, and obviously going there. The little guy pays for it.
It's your sons and daughters that are in Iraq or Afghanistan. That are doing it.
And you're paying for it. And not just your taxes, your private equity.
Remember, Zuckerberg and all these guys came out of graduate schools. They didn't have any money.
The people invest, the Peter Thiel's were in people like that. It's all pension fund money.
So it's Oregon State Pension Fund. It's CalPERS.
It's Alabama Teachers Fund. All of their money, this is the Greek tragedy part of this.
The American working class and middle class have essentially, through their work and hard work and savings, right, has paid for their own destruction. Has paid for, that's the Greek tragedy part of it.
Your greatest strength was turned against you. Your ability to be a good householder.
Your ability to actually have something, your ability to pay your taxes on a regular basis and have a little something put away. That's what the venture capitalist and the hedge funds used to ship the jobs overseas and destroy not on your own economics of your personal life, but to make sure that your children and grandchildren essentially live like Russian serfs.
That's the revolt that you're seeing. Now, people can't totally articulate it.
Number one is the system's never explained to you. You never explain how up here on Capitol Hill you can run these massive deficits.
Well, how can it be paid for? How can we not bankrupt? Well, we have this money machine called the Federal Reserve that can just create money, that we can create the bond. What we can sell to foreign countries, we can just create ourselves.
And that's how you end up with 125% of GDP in debt with a trillion dollars being added every hundred days. And inflation is not going to go away until you stop this national federal spending.
It's not a supply chain issue anymore. It's too many dollars taking too few goods.
And as we keep having these massive deficits, the inflation is going to be embedded in the system. And as we have to refinance, you're going to refinance it at higher rates.
You're not going to get rid of this inflation. It's a death spiral.
Two final questions. Is a conflict in your mind with China at some point inevitable? We've heard people come on the news and they say a conflict is within five to seven years.
Pentagon runs a study that says within five to seven years. Now, some of this seems like it is based on the need for more money and more spending and more, or is this, and you know more about China than a lot of people, and you've studied and read about it, is it going to be a military conflict? Is it going to be an economic conflict? And this is the book, and I'll get you covered, Unrestricted Warfare, written by two colonels back in the 90s off of the Gulf War.
And what they said is foreign devils are so sophisticated in armaments, and particularly remote armaments and targeting, that we never want to get into a shooting war with foreign devils. That unrestricted warfare will be cyber, psychological, political, economic.
We will do everything. And in fact, they announced in 2019 there's a people's war.
The Chinese Communist Party is at war with us today. That's where we see the mass infiltration to the United States.
That's where we see the taking of so much of our technology. We don't need, and Sun Tzu tells them in their belief, the moment they have to go kinetic, they feel they've already lost.
Number one, they don't want to fight the foreign devils in a kinetic war, because they understand one thing we can do is get up on it and fucking blow shit up and kill people, okay? We're very good at that. They considered that defeat.
They wanted to defeat us beforehand. My point.
The only people that throw off, think about that, we allow the Chinese Communist Party, which is a dictatorship that's killed a quarter of a billion of their own people. Right? I mean, they make Stalin and Hitler look like pikers.
Okay? They've murdered in concentration camp starvation through the Cultural Revolution, the Great Leap Forward, the collectivization, and today the gulags they have, you know, a quarter of a billion of their own people.

And the forced, if you can't, the forced abortions, you had another 300 or 400 million Chinese, particularly Chinese female babies. So these people are murderous dictatorship, yet we interact with them, we're in business with them like they're part of the Kiwanis Club.
If you want to support Lao Ba Jing, which is the only way they can be overthrown, that's a name for old hundred names because there's basically a hundred names in the Chinese language, right? A hundred last names. So old hundred names is a term for the common man in China, common man and woman.
If you want Lao Ba Jing to overthrow them, we just have to do two things. You cut them off completely from any access to American capital.
And I mean any. No stock market, no equity, no lending, no nothing, zero.
And you cut them off 100% from American technology. They will collapse, I believe, in 100 days.
They cannot exist unless they have access to American capital or access to technology. This is why I'm one of the leaders of the decoupling effort, right? And President Trump, he wrote an executive order on Friday and signed it.
That's probably the toughest thing we've done about no involvement at all with technology companies of any company that does Chinese military. It's the first time we've really, somebody's put down the law.
That's the way you take care of the Chinese Communist Party. If we don't do that, I believe we'll be in a shooting war in the South China Sea and around Taiwan in five years.
And people have to understand, I don't care about your moral, whether you think you're supporting Taiwan for a democracy or not. Advanced chip design, you know, 30 to 40 to 50 percent of our advanced chip design comes from Taiwan.
There's chip and it's not easily replicable. The Koreans have tried it.
The Japanese have tried it. We're trying to hear in the United States with the chip back.
We are 10 or 20 years away from those plants. Advanced chip design is both an art and a science.
We don't have it. They have it in those plants in Taiwan.
It's 80 miles from the mainland China. It's a horrible situation.
President Trump thinks about it all the time. You talk about the Pentagon and I used to, I, that's I spent my, half of my career at sea was there.
The other half was in the North Arabian Sea and Persian Gulf. So I've steamed those waters.
Right now, there's not been a war game in the Pentagon. They've put this out in the last seven or eight years that we've won defending Taiwan.
Wow. And they know that.
So, and if they take Taiwan, the American economy will drop into a depression. They understand that.
That's why it's kind of a, a standoff right now, but we have to get much more aggressive on the CCP or we're going to pay for it. And we do that by restricting wall street and respect, restricting Silicon Valley from being in business with them.
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The salutes that Elon,

I think might've done one by mistake,

or you did one,

these things that people are getting very upset about.

You just got a lot of press at CPAC or whatever it was.

I gave a motivational talk at the end.

I always give a wave to the audience.

What they did is they took a nanosecond clip and said,

Bannon's throwing a Nazi or Roman salute.

They just came out today.

Byron York over the Washington Examiner came out with a,

Thank you. audience what they did is they took a nanosecond clip and said bannon's throwing a a uh a nazi or roman salute they just came out today byron york over the washington examiner came out with a a photo of of um kamala harris doing the same thing a couple of years ago where she waved to the audience just silly no but what they're trying to listen the speech i gave the speech and said because you go like this you go but it's you're probably i'm waving to the crowd yes yes I just did it.
I just but it's, you're probably, I'm waving to the crowd. Yes.

I just did it.

I just did it.

Yes.

This is the clip.

You're waving to the,

and by the way,

I did with the French guy.

Yeah.

With the French guy.

It's easy to do.

You can do it.

With the French guy that said he wouldn't come.

They had a thing,

a front national where I talked to the group seven years ago.

I did the exact same thing.

I went up and waved to the crowd like that.

And I go,

Oh God.

Nothing you've said today indicates that you have any adoration for or

sympathy for any,

any,

Yeah, that's... I did the exact same thing.
I went up and waved to the crowd like that. And I go, Oh God.
Nothing you've said today indicates that you have any adoration for or sympathy for any, any of the Hitlerian. But people, but what they didn't want to do is cover the speech in the speech.
I said, the whole world's media is there. The same guy, the whole world's media is there.
They're not there to see Bannon because they get enough of me yelling in the microphone four hours a day. They get, they get Elon Musk.
They don't need more Elon Musk. They get, you know, right.
Elon all the time. They don't need Trump.
Trump, another hour in the, in the thing that they signed executive orders and blowing them up when he's asking questions. Trump's so far in their head.
I said, and they're not there for JD. They get enough of JD too.
They came because they want to see where the power in this country lies is with this populist movement and they can't understand. And they can't destroy what they don't understand.
And so they're all there to see these people. And I said, you are the power.
Trump, when Trump went back to Mar-a-Lago after they stole the 2020 election, hey, the entire Republican Party abandoned him. Everybody was debanked, deplatformed, all the oligarchs kicked him off everywhere.
It was his base that said, fuck this. If you're in, we're in.
And when he said, I'm in, understanding, and this was the greatest moment of moral clarity and one of the greatest profiles in courage. You take Kennedy's book, read them all, all eight examples.
I think he got 10 examples. They don't compare to Trump.
Trump understood. If I do this and are not a good little boy and stay in Mar-a-Lago and build more golf courses and write my memos, if I come back and try to reclaim the presidency that was stolen from me, they will try to throw me in prison.
They'll try to bankrupt me. They'll try to destroy my country.
He understood. And maybe they'll try to kill you.
And eventually try to kill you. He is the American Cincinnatus.
This is his famous mythical Roman general that went back and retired. And when the nation was having a crisis, right in a war, they went to him and said, you got to come back and save us.
Trump came back and that's why it's general Washington, Lincoln, and Trump. This will be known as the age of Trump.
And here's the thing. They're not in history.
They're not going to give a fuck about Elon Musk, Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson, J.D. Vance.
They're going to care about Donald Trump and MAGA. They're going to say this guy was a billionaire that came and basically formed a populist nationalist movement that gave the country its sovereignty back and gave the country its freedom back.
And that's why I and that's why I think he's not only one of the greatest presidents we've ever had,

he's one of the two or three greatest Americans we've ever had.

And this is why I'm a huge proponent of trying to see if he can't stick

around as long as possible,

because at least for another term after this,

because that would require amending the constitution.

Well,

we'll see about that.

We'll see.

No,

then people,

and people don't think it'll be too old. You don't certainly won't be too old.
Look at his energy now. His energy is great energy.
Great energy. Listen, a guy like this comes along once a century.
We had one in the 18th century. But he'd have to win again, right? I mean, let's say it would be another election.
Yes. Because this is what people tend to always say about.
No, no, no, no, no. Winning more elections, we're not concerned about that.
We think that this guy is on a roll right now. We think we're building our coalition.
Now we have to deliver, right? There's going to be some, people should understand. You have to deliver.
The next three or four months are going to be a firestorm on this Capitol about spending, about taxes. And I'm a big proponent that if we can't cut spending enough if there's not enough revenue coming in from uh tariffs you're gonna tax the rich a tax you're a steve bannon tax the rich i i said all right i said in the i said in the oval in in 17 when you know he had gary uh uh cohen mnuchin and and jared myself and i told the president then you got to take the upper bracket and we got to tax it.
We got to increase the tax rates. What's the upper bracket? Well, here's what I'm saying.
Is that right now- Where does that start before I get on board with this? Hang on. You're probably going to fall into that.
No. Right now, if you look at- Steve.
If you look at the four- These private planes are expensive and they're dangerous. If you look at the four trillion dollars, so if we don't extend the tax cuts- Yeah.
Right? There's basically, as Scott Bess said, there's a $4 trillion tax increase coming. If you take couples filing together under $400,000 combined, that is essentially $2.6 trillion of that.
Okay? So that covers, and I would actually say increase that maybe to $500,000. Then you have a couple hundred billion for pass-throughs of entrepreneurs with small companies.
That leaves about a trillion dollars for the top 5% or the top 3%. So those tax cuts would not be renewed.
Their taxes would go back to the previous taxes. 30 times.
Yes. And I'm actually saying that if- And I could get behind,

I could say that's okay.

I appreciate that.

I mean, I don't,

I'm just saying.

Is there any way we could start taxes

after $8 million?

Well, they do that now,

I think, on estate taxes.

And let me give you one more piece

of news, though.

That's in the existing taxes we have today. So I'm a proponent of president Trump is to no tax on tips.
Yes. No tax on overtime, no tax on first responders, military veterans, et cetera.
Podcasters, right wing podcasters. No, no tax on social security.
That adds. When you accumulate it, that's about another trillion dollars.
Okay. So our gap goes from two to three trillion.
Gotcha. And so we've got to close that.
And my point is the best way to incentivize the oligarchs and the wealthy and the lords of easy money on Wall Street to help us cut spending is they've got to get in back of because the puppets here in D.C. respond to those guys.
You've got to have your lobbyists. You've got to have everybody help us work on cutting spending.
If we can't cut spending, we can't continue on a $2 trillion deficit. Not only may you not get, in my view, not get the extension of the Trump tax cut, I think you've got talk taxes on financial transactions, taxes on you got to kill the carried interest.
You have to kill all these games. Well, the carried interest they should have killed a long time ago.
No one's killed it. No one's killed it.
Chuck Schumer and everybody. It's not.
And by the way, the Democrats always fold. Democrats fold.
In the first hundred days, to show what funnies there are, in the first hundred days of Biden's regime, they came up with all this tax on billionaires.

Remember that?

They had a program tax on billionaires.

It never even got through a committee. They just – because the Democratic Party is controlled by billionaires.
And so this is, I think, where we got to get tough. I just saw a poll today that 50 percent of Republican voters, President Trump supporters, 50 percent.

Agree that if we got to close this gap, that they support taxing the wealthy. I just think it's, I think it's just going to happen.
And to me, I'm not against it. And I think that we should care for, I've always said, listen, I lived in California for many years, pay high taxes.
And I said, if I was living in a place where it was nice and people were being supported and cared for with the money, it's great. But if I'm paying 13 and a half percent of my money and someone is using the bathroom in the middle of the parkway, I'm asking questions.
Like Bill Maher and others. So finally started to wake up to the fact after the Palisades debacle of exactly what you're paying for.
Listen, I'm not for higher taxes. What I'm for is fiscal sanity.
We're in a financial crisis. If we can't, if President Trump's geoeconomics on tariffs, because he doesn't think of tariffs as a 25% tariff on a Mexican avocado or some under-the-hood part from Canada.

He looks at it as we have a premium market that's basically supported

and made robust by working-class people.

If you want to get through the golden door, you've got to pay a premium,

like you get a skybox at a sporting event or a front-row ticket to a concert. you either move your manufacturing here and create jobs or you're going to pay a price for it.
He believes, I think, like Navarro, eventually a third of our total revenue can come from external sources, not internal. But if we can't, you know, cut spending, get more duties, fees and tariffs from outside sources, that gap at two trillion dollars is not sustainable and it's just going to keep driving inflation.
It's got to be cut. If you want to get under a trillion dollars in Doge doesn't come up with those types of cuts, which I think right now is still to be seen.
There is ways for an abuse, but we can't get to those cuts. Eventually, you have to get additional revenues.
Those revenues to me should come from financial transactions, carried interest, others and and obviously the wealthy that can have made up so well from the 2008 collapse. I mean, we've created more wealth for them.
The Wall Street Journal today just has a report out that the entire economy, you know, 70 percent of is or a third of the purchasing power.

But 70 percent of the overall is driven by the top 3%. People making more than $350,000 a year.
I think that's not, we can't continue into that system. We have a capitalist system.
We got to keep it. Well, we have a capitalist system with no capitalist.
Right. Think about it.
70% of the people in this country don't own financial or real assets. They have to have a piece of the action.
If you have everybody the piece of the action, and this is not socialism. These people never ask for anything.
It's also practical. President Trump keeps saying it's a revolution of common sense.
Common sense means let's get everybody to be a capitalist.

Let's get everybody to be an owner of something.

Financial assets, real assets.

Skin in the game.

Skin in the game.

Care about the community.

Care about the community.

Once you incentivize people with actual ownership, you create a capitalist system.

Right now we have a oligarchic system.

Yes.

Right?

It's a huge government, a handful of players in each industry, whether it's media, whether it's defense contracting, what's big pharma health, the oligarchs in Silicon Valley that have elite merger or elite capture, right, or regulatory capture. This has to be broken apart.
And they're just not going to sit there and say, oh, this is brilliant. Why didn't we think of that? We'll just toss you the keys.
Every day is going to be a fight. And we're asking people in your audience as you become awakened to what reality is you know understand they're always going to try to throw oh it's nazi salutes or these guys are nativists or they're racist we're everything we're anything but we're saying that the greatest resource this country's ever had ever had is its people particularly working class and middle class people it is what has created more value more wealth freed more people than any nation the history of the earth.
And what we have to do is make sure that they're incentivized and rewarded for that. And if we do that, this thing is going to thrive like nobody's business.
Steve Bannon, thank you so much for coming on. You got Trump elected.
Can you get me elected to the... I didn't get Trump.
Trump got himself elected. Well, yeah, but you were instrumental in it.
I had a had a small could you make me the mayor of the pacific palisades first off first off i'm still going to work on your thing you want to opt in for the for the no tax cuts for the podcasters right that no i'm very serious about that because we're the new media and we have to pay i pay this lug i pay producers i pay people all these guys all these guys bitched and moan and they got here They weren't paid enough. They all bitch and moan.
I'm producers. I pay people.
I pay for their meals. All these guys bitched and moaned when they got here.

They weren't paid enough. They all bitch and

moan. I'm telling you, the

podcasters are the most suffering.

I mean, yes, the working class and

whatever, and Ukraine.

I can't hear about that anymore.

The podcasters, we're spending

the money. You know? Alright, thank you.

Steve Bannon, thank you for coming. I appreciate it.

Thank you for having me. Thank you so much.

This podcast is brought to you in part

by Stash, saving and investing

Thank you. Steve Bannon.
Thank you for coming. I appreciate it.
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Thank you so much. This podcast is brought to you in part by Stash.
Saving and investing can feel impossible, but with Stash, it's a reality. It's easy.
Stash is interested in investing app. It's a registered investment advisor that combines automated investing with dependable financial strategies to help you reach your goals faster.
They'll provide you with personalized advice on what to invest in based on your goals. Or if you want to just sit back and watch your money go to work, you can opt into their award-winning expert managed portfolio that picks stocks for you.
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