E539 The Amazing Acro-Cats

Speaker 1 Don't miss Sebastian Maniscalco's new stand-up special, It Ain't Right, premiering on Hulu, November 21st. Filmed live at the sold-out United Center Arena in Chicago.

Speaker 1 Sebastian goes all in on family chaos, aging, non-existent manners, and life's most relatable and frustratingly funny moments as only he can.

Speaker 1 Watch Sebastian Maniscalco, It Ain't Right, on November 21st, streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

Speaker 1 We have some upcoming tour dates there in Colorado Springs in Colorado, Casper, Wyoming, Billings, Montana, and Missoula, Montana, Bloomington, Indiana, Columbus, Ohio, Champaign, Illinois over there, and a fighting a line eye area, Grand Rapids, Michigan, Lafayette, Louisiana, and Beaumont, Texas.

Speaker 1 You can get all your tickets at theovon.com slash T-O-U-R.

Speaker 1 And thank you so much for the support. Today's guest is a cat advocate, a performer, and a trainer.

Speaker 1 For almost 20 years, she's been touring with her performance crew of cats called the Acro Cats, where they perform routines, tricks, and much more.

Speaker 1 She's also started the only all-cat band in the world, Tuna and the Rock Cats.

Speaker 1 No one loves anything as much as Samantha loves cats. Today's guest is Samantha Martin and the Acro Cats.

Speaker 1 Shine

Speaker 1 on me,

Speaker 1 and I will

Speaker 1 find a song out of this thing else.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so I want to learn all about Acro Cats and I want to learn all about the traveling cat universe and everything that there is to know about it because it really is just fascinating to think about them cats and everything that they're doing and

Speaker 1 just how involved with it you are, you know?

Speaker 1 Just to start, I guess, what are some, like, what is a cat, I guess, basically? How would you even, what is like a,

Speaker 1 like, I mean, I know it's kind of an easy question, but what do you, some people probably don't, aren't even, that aren't big pets, like connoisseurs or whatever. How do you put that in a

Speaker 1 is there a certain size of it or like, how tall is a cat?

Speaker 2 I tall, oh, yeah, boy, that's you're open with a question I don't even know the answer to. They're very, they really vary in size.
Uh, some, the, some of the cats are more petite.

Speaker 2 We do a lot of bottle babies, so they tend to be a little bit on the smaller side. Uh, females, a little bit on the smaller side.

Speaker 2 But cats are really kind of misunderstood.

Speaker 2 Everybody thinks that cats are aloof and that they can't be trained, that they don't really need socialization or kind of the same kind of things that dogs need.

Speaker 2 A lot of people get cats, you know, thinking that's not going to be any work at all. I just have to scoop a litter box or get an auto-scooping litter box and throw out some food and be done with it.

Speaker 2 Where a dog is so much more work, but in actuality, a cat is

Speaker 2 just as much work as a dog and people should invest that time because cats are brilliant people don't realize just how brilliant cats are yeah oh yeah i've seen some cats they have all types of cats um

Speaker 1 yeah they even had one cat went to space i think even

Speaker 2 I know a cat went down Niagara Falls.

Speaker 1 Really? You know a cat that went to Niagara Falls?

Speaker 2 That went down Niagara Falls.

Speaker 1 Went down it?

Speaker 2 The first person that survived a barrel trip down the falls, she took a cat with her.

Speaker 1 No way.

Speaker 1 For good luck or just for...

Speaker 2 Just who knows. I mean, I wasn't around during that time to ask her afterwards, like what made you bring a cat down the falls with you? But she and the cat survived.

Speaker 1 Wow, yeah,

Speaker 1 um, okay, so a cat, like, and a cat can be, you said, almost any size. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, there's huge cats. There's main coon cats that are giant.
Our cats are a little bit on the, they're all, none of our cats are pure bred cats because they're all rescue cats.

Speaker 2 So they, but the main coon cats are giant. I mean, I've seen like they're almost dog size.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 So, and then there's the real small ones that the munchkins and that have the short legs and that they and then you know, it's not really good to breed for certain things.

Speaker 2 You know, it just seems uncomfortable for some of the cats to have like short legs and difficulty for them to get around. But yeah, they come in all different sizes and shapes and larger, smaller.

Speaker 2 Some cats are hairless, some cats are

Speaker 2 completely furry.

Speaker 1 So a cat can basically be almost any

Speaker 1 like, how tall are the cats you work with? Because the cats I've seen are probably a lot of them are about this tall.

Speaker 1 Well, I guess that's if they're just sitting up, if they're walking.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
That's, I mean, it's kind of, there's a typical cat size, but the main coons are the ones that are the giant. Oh, a main coon is the one.

Speaker 1 A main coon, yeah.

Speaker 2 The main coons are the giant ones. You know, see people like with the record main coon and they're holding it and it takes two arms and it's still hanging over their arms.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like a play in the base kind of.

Speaker 1 And do you do you employ any main coons?

Speaker 2 No, because they really, we need small, agile cats to be acro cats.

Speaker 1 Okay, so for acrocats, we're talking a smaller cat. We're talking, what's the premier size kind of like a

Speaker 1 for an acrocat?

Speaker 2 Oh, the runts, the orphans, the runts, the strays, the ones with the, with the, especially the ones with the attitude, with the troublemakers. Oh, really? Those make the best acro cats.
They do.

Speaker 2 Those little, like, because they got like short cat syndrome. So they already have like a little chip on their shoulder.
So they've got attitude and they're like, I'm, you know, don't mess with me.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm going to show you. And so yeah, those make, those are the best acrocats.
And they're a little bit on the smaller side. So they can do a lot more.
Okay. Climb higher.
They can jump further.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's just, they're more agile. So yeah, we, you know, we tend to employ strictly

Speaker 2 rescue cats. Okay.
No purebreds.

Speaker 1 Oh, really? So you guys, so acro cats is a lot of rescues then. Oh, yes.
Yes.

Speaker 2 They're all former orphans, rescues, and straves.

Speaker 1 Man, it's almost like the bad news bears in a way, huh?

Speaker 1 You know, I that movie you see.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I've seen it. It's been a long time.

Speaker 2 So I kind of

Speaker 2 don't really remember the premise.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think it was just some of the, some of them were kind of like,

Speaker 1 yeah, some of the kids were kind of like having a tough time, you know, it was like those type of kids.

Speaker 1 So how did you get started with Acrocats? And what is Acrocats, first of all?

Speaker 2 So the amazing Acrocats, they're a troop of former orphan rescues and strays that have come into my life over the years.

Speaker 2 And I've trained them to do awesome things to show people that not only can cats be trained, but they should be trained. So they travel around the country.

Speaker 2 We now tour in a large bus. We initially started out in a small ambulance and then slowly built up to this giant

Speaker 2 money pit of a bus.

Speaker 1 Yeah, busing is expensive.

Speaker 2 Oh, so expensive.

Speaker 1 So you guys were in an ambulance.

Speaker 2 At one point, I started things. I started my career, you know, with an ambulance back in the days when I was doing rats and wildlife education and all of that.

Speaker 2 So I've been working with animals since I was 10.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So you've been working with an animal since you was a child, really. You was really

Speaker 1 just a child animal worker.

Speaker 1 And so you get started, you said with rats first?

Speaker 2 I knew I wanted to be an animal trainer since I was seven.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you knew out of the gate you wanted to be out there with them animals? Yes. And how did you know you'd be at a zoo or something would flare up in you when you would see an animal?

Speaker 1 Or how do you know that you loved them? Well,

Speaker 2 my parents did a letter every year, like those annoying Christmas letters that people send out detailing their whole year.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, like Patty got her a minstrel cycle or whatever. And Danny's playing volleyball or whatever.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 So my parents did one every year.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we got those in our neighborhood. Some of them were too much.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 One year they sent it, it was like, Ron left us, if anybody's seen him or whatever, call us. And we're like, this is for Christmas? Like, it was just, but some of them got it a little invasive.

Speaker 1 But, um, okay, sorry, I interrupted you. Oh, no, yeah.

Speaker 2 But, but so, so looking back through all those, those Christmas letters, I, it talked about how I talked about wanting a cat, wanting a cat. As soon as I was able to talk, I wanted a cat.

Speaker 2 And then I found a book that was like a book about me that I had filled out when I was seven. And it said, when I grow up, I want to be.
And I put on, I put, I filled in animal trainer or Indian.

Speaker 1 oh that's good yeah yeah that's kind of the same thing almost because the Indians were so close to nature really you know yeah yeah it really is kind of similar path I guess spiritual connection with animals yeah so so you wanted to be really dialed in out of the gate oh yeah I knew what I wanted to do right from the get-go my parents they had a different plan for me.

Speaker 1 What did they think they wanted?

Speaker 2 I mean, they wanted the traditional, I mean, they sent me to college to get my MRS.

Speaker 2 They didn't care what I majored in.

Speaker 1 I wanted to be a woman.

Speaker 2 As long as I came home with a husband that had a good degree in a future. That's what they wanted.

Speaker 2 They did not anticipate me being an entrepreneur, you know, entrepreneur. And I'm going to start a business with rats.
And that's kind of how it all started right after college.

Speaker 2 I moved to Chicago and I was like, I'm going to start a business with rats.

Speaker 1 And what made you, did you see something? Did you, were you at a

Speaker 1 live event? Did you, were you at a christening or a, were you at like,

Speaker 1 you know, a performance of phantom of the opera or like what set made you think okay i'm gonna start doing a live performance at animals because that's a real the only people that's ever done that is noah probably noah's ark

Speaker 1 and god probably yeah yeah

Speaker 1 did you see yeah did you see a performance did you see something that was like

Speaker 2 yeah yes actually i watched a

Speaker 2 documentary on Mo De Sesso, who was the rat trainer for the original Ben and Willard movies.

Speaker 1 Okay, bring him up. Mo De Sesso, how do you spell him?

Speaker 2 Mo De Sesso.

Speaker 1 Mo De Sesso.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he was one of the original Hollywood animal trainers.

Speaker 2 He was my mentor.

Speaker 2 He was my, I mean, I saw this documentary that he did on this on the Discovery Channel back when they showed animal, you know, when they showed stuff like real things on Discovery Channel.

Speaker 2 And he, it was like behind the scenes training of the rats for this movie. And I was like, yes, this is what I want to do with my life.
I want to train animals for film and television.

Speaker 2 And I ended up getting to meet him.

Speaker 1 Animal trainer Mo DeSesso, who trained such notable animal stars as Ben the Rat and Annie's dog, Sandy, died July 2nd in New Hall, California. He was 83.

Speaker 1 He trained over 600 rats for the two rodent horror hits, winning a Patsy Award for directing Ben the Rat in Willard. And another sequel for Ben.
Wow, so he could really

Speaker 1 conduct a rat.

Speaker 2 Oh, he could train any animal. He was just amazing.
I was so thrilled because I ended up getting stranded in California.

Speaker 2 I was working on a rat documentary, and part of it was filmed in Los Angeles in the summer. And I got stuck there because of a heat embargo, so I couldn't get my rats back to Chicago.

Speaker 1 So you're there, you're working on a rat documentary? Yes.

Speaker 2 It was called Rat.

Speaker 1 Okay, Rat.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Mark Lewis.

Speaker 2 Mark Lewis kind of gave me my big break as far as working on documentaries and getting my first really big break and as far as training rats. So it was so serendipitous how

Speaker 2 everything happened, really. My whole, you know, the whole life story from, you know, the rats to the, you know, to the cats.

Speaker 2 But, but I was out, I was working on the documentary for the other part of the documentary. We'd film the first part in New York, and then we finished it in Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 There was a heat, you know, during the summer, you cannot fly animals and cargo. So my rats and I were stuck in California.

Speaker 2 So so I looked up Mo De Cesso yeah and I drove out to his ranch no mm-hmm and I introduced myself and they welcomed me into their home I stayed with them for about three weeks or so I cleaned every inch of his of his place his training room I organized his training room I just worked every day they'd have to drag me in for meals and and then he he worked with me every day for training I learned so much from him and and you know when I left he cried when I left I was like the daughter that he'd always wanted and and in a way he was like the father that I wished I'd had because my parents, they liked animals, but they weren't like true animal lovers.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they didn't love them like you did.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I loved them right from the beginning. I mean, just was drawn.
I was drawn to them.

Speaker 2 It was my life calling.

Speaker 1 So you leave out of there, the documentary gets finished,

Speaker 1 and now you're a rat trainer.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I'm a rat trainer. And then I ended up being a chicken trainer after that because Mark Lewis did a film called The Natural History of Chickens.

Speaker 2 He hired me again for that to train the the chickens and i didn't know anything about chickens when i took that job oh yeah you could yeah it was i mean and back then the internet there was just some yahoo groups and and i saw i i mean and he was a tough guy to work for too i mean he if you did if you did if things did not go right i mean he would just be yellow yell at you like two inches from your face i mean just he was intense oh he was so intense and i mean i saw there were nights when i worked on the rat film that i cried every night but it was you know he was so good i mean he really knew what he wanted

Speaker 1 Damn it, get these rats and do it or whatever.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was just, he was very hardcore.

Speaker 2 And, you know, very few people survived working for a Mark Lewis film. But his film was, you know, one award.
So

Speaker 2 when he asked me back to do the chicken, I didn't get yelled at the entire shoot.

Speaker 2 I mean, nobody could have a conversation with me during the chicken training portion because I was learning about chickens.

Speaker 2 There are so many things that could go wrong with this chicken training thing.

Speaker 1 I'm sure it's

Speaker 1 even just the term chicken training

Speaker 1 sounds like it's not going to work out. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 I had to have a white silky hen go broody, which means

Speaker 2 they lay on eggs, right?

Speaker 2 So, and then once the chicken, once I found a chicken that actually laid eggs, because this broodiness has been bred out of them over the years, because most people want them for food or just eggs.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 they don't want them to. to lay on them.
So I had all these white silky chickens, found one that laid eggs and sat on them.

Speaker 2 So then I had to take the eggs and replace them with golf balls, keep the eggs safe, then transport that chicken to

Speaker 2 somewhere in the south.

Speaker 2 I was somewhere out in the country with these chickens, working on

Speaker 2 these chickens. So I had to get them on the flight, get them to the location, and then put the eggs in an incubator.

Speaker 2 on the exact day that he needed to shoot these chickens hatching, they had to hatch. So there were so many things that could have gone wrong.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so many things too. We were playing God at that point, anyway.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 it was so, so, so stressful. I had to train a rooster to crow on

Speaker 2 Q.

Speaker 2 So, and I had no idea, I mean, I was really, you know, I was self-taught. This is pre-internet.
This is before you could look up all the things and just find answers. I mean, I was.

Speaker 1 And what do you do? You don't, do you tickle them or whatever? What do you do to get a rooster to do it?

Speaker 2 Well, you would find,

Speaker 2 find out what would make them crow naturally. So they actually, they kind of trained me.
So I'd have a rooster in the downstairs with a baby monitor.

Speaker 2 So I'd be upstairs and anytime I heard that rooster crow, I'd go running downstairs and then I'd wave an American flag

Speaker 2 and click and treat and give the, you know, because I knew about clicker training at that point. So I would click and treat and give the rooster, you know, a reward for crowing.

Speaker 2 So I also, but I also knew that I needed to put it on a cue so that it couldn't just, we couldn't be waiting around for it to crow. I needed to signal for it to crow.

Speaker 1 So that's what the flag would be.

Speaker 2 So the flag would be like, I'm waving the flag, it's still crowing, I'm waving the flag, I'm clicking and treating, and not really knowing what I'm doing, just hoping it's going to work.

Speaker 1 Create a pattern.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 And people would be trying to talk to me and I'd be like,

Speaker 2 what if I taught the chicken to follow a ribbon?

Speaker 2 And we could put that ribbon on the camera and then the chicken would follow that camera everywhere because we need those camera, like right now, right in the camera shots.

Speaker 2 I mean, nobody could talk to me about anything because I was so hyper-focused on making these chickens perfect for this, for this film. And I mean, it was, it turned out beautifully.

Speaker 2 I mean, I couldn't believe how, how all my hard work paid off.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So it was, but I, you know, I.

Speaker 1 It's pretty remarkable.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, it really, considering I didn't really know anything about chickens when I took the job.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and it seems like an insane job to take and do. Oh, yeah, yes.
And then to pull it it off.

Speaker 2 Yes, and to pull it off and not get screamed at once the entire shoot. Oh yeah, that was, oh, that was amazing.

Speaker 1 Wow. So you got the rooster crowing.
You got, you, you're working with the chickens. So how do you then turn it over into acro rats you started with?

Speaker 2 Well, I started with the rats. The rats were first.

Speaker 2 So I had, after I met Modeceso, I had an idea that when I moved to Chicago,

Speaker 2 at this point, I'd had rats since I was 16. So

Speaker 1 you've been a rat owner. You've had them, yeah.

Speaker 2 I knew how smart they were. I knew how just

Speaker 2 one of the most trainable, smart animals ever. And they're also misunderstood.
So I've always been drawn to those kind of social rejects of the animal world, the rats. The underdogs.

Speaker 2 The underdogs, exactly, the underdogs.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I started putting, you know, I was like, I bet you I could put a little show together. I'm going to teach these rats to do tricks.
And I'm going to, you know, put a little show together.

Speaker 2 That'll get some attention to these rats. And then maybe I'll get that film, that big, you know, break that I wanted.
So I was working in a pet shop at the time.

Speaker 1 In where? In Chicago? Yeah, in Chicago.

Speaker 2 I was a new town aquarium. And the owner was a monster.

Speaker 2 Really? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 He was just the worst human ever.

Speaker 1 Why was he even in the game? Why was he even in the

Speaker 2 money?

Speaker 2 The money.

Speaker 2 In the pet money?

Speaker 2 Well, there was other things he was doing. He was getting fish

Speaker 2 in from other other countries, and there were more, there was more in with the fish than like renaming them, not selling them. No, no, they, there, there were, um,

Speaker 2 you know, the fish that he were, he was getting shipped in, there's white styrofoam on the bottom, right?

Speaker 1 Oh, those other things getting shipped in.

Speaker 2 Other things he was shipping in under.

Speaker 1 So it's probably a front.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so it was a front, but he also was, if he, his, his idea was like, if I, if I get a hundred of these, I get a huge discount.

Speaker 2 Uh, if I get a hundred of these annoles, if I get a hundred of these Burmese pythons, and if they all die and I sell just one, I'll still make a profit. Wow.
And so he didn't care about the animals.

Speaker 2 So I came in and I, of course, cared about the animals. I'm working overtime.
I'm taking the animals home and separating all the snakes and feeding them so they don't eat each other.

Speaker 2 And I, you know, I'm so

Speaker 2 going to the library and researching on how to take care of these animals. So I was in charge of the rodents and the reptile section.

Speaker 1 And I was like, they're arch nemesises, aren't they?

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 They are not friends.

Speaker 2 So the, you know, the rodents were downstairs and then the reptiles are upstairs.

Speaker 2 And I, so I'm learning about them, you know, having to go to the library, you know, creating these cage cards so that when people came in, I could, I could educate them on like, okay, you're interested in buying this particular lizard.

Speaker 2 Well, this is what it needs to, what you need to take care of it. And it's going to need a heat, you know, a heating light and a rock and all these various things.

Speaker 2 And so, so I did all my research and, and I was really, I mean, I did love the job, but I just, he was just a monster. Yeah.
And at that point, I had my little rat show trained up.

Speaker 1 Oh, perfect. So you got the rats, they're performing now.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they're performing in nightclubs and things like that.

Speaker 1 Okay, now, so that sounds like, yeah, I would love to see that. And it's something that's important.

Speaker 1 The rats are performing in nightclubs with you as the trainer. They're not.
Okay, yeah. So with you as the trainer, the rats are performing in nightclubs.

Speaker 1 And you guys are, how many rats are in the show?

Speaker 2 There's probably, oh, maybe

Speaker 2 six or seven rats. And they climb up ladders, they jump through hoops, they'd even bowl.

Speaker 2 And the best trick was they would run, they'd drive up into an ambulance, and then they would go up a fire truck into a burning little kid's house with fake flames, of course, and there'd be a doll in the house.

Speaker 2 So the rats would go up the ladder, rescue the doll, come back down, and put it into the ambulance.

Speaker 1 No way.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so it was, they were so much fun to teach and work, work with. and people were just amazed that these rats are doing these amazing tricks.
So they're the amazing acro rats.

Speaker 2 And I had little business cards made up that said, the rat company trained acro rats for all occasions, film, television, live shows.

Speaker 2 And I told everybody at work that someday somebody's going to walk in that door and they're going to need a rat for a movie and I'm going to be ready for them, right?

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 So that was a lot of your ambition. So you'd seen Mo DeSesso have this,

Speaker 1 you'd seen that documentary and then it had an effect on you. And then next, you know, you end up out there, you end up get to getting to work with him.

Speaker 1 So now you're really feeling like you're on the right path.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. So you have the, you have the rat show going in Chicago.
Yeah, yes. And you're performing where? You're performing after hours in the pet shop?

Speaker 2 Yeah. No, I'm not in the pet store, but I'm working, I'm like after hours in nightclubs.
Okay. I was taking the rats and, you know, they'd hire me to bring the rats in.
Or actually,

Speaker 2 you know, I don't even know if I got really hired or so. Maybe it was just kind kind of a past the hat kind of thing.
Cause, you know, any opportunity I had to train these rats. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But how do you even approach that? Because in the beginning, if you say, hey, I'm going to come in later, I'm going to bring in a couple of rats. I think people are going to be like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 Or people, like, how do you have that initial conversation with some of the performance venues and stuff?

Speaker 2 Well, it was Chicago.

Speaker 2 Chicago was very, you know, kind of open-minded. You know, they, they liked anything, you know, interesting and different.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I had my roommate had connections with certain nightclubs at that point so so you know she hooked me up with some of the nightclub people and then word spread that you know there's rat lady but who comes to the show is it just people that are at the nightclub that is already staged performance at the nightclub and it's like now we're gonna have the acro rat yeah now the acro rats are gonna perform we're gonna do a couple shows and

Speaker 2 you know it was just it was just fun it was it was basically i'm just trying to get attention to these rats hoping that i'm gonna get this break at some point so that i can get to the next level okay And so how does that start to happen?

Speaker 1 How does,

Speaker 1 do you get a break?

Speaker 2 That's, well, the big break came in when I was in the pet, when I was working at the pet store. Okay.
Waiting with my little business card, you know, the rat company.

Speaker 2 I named my company, the rat company. Yeah.
Yeah. Trained rats for all occasions, film, television, live shows, waiting for that moment, that big break.

Speaker 2 And these two guys walk into this pet store and they're like, we need a rat. We need a couple of rats for film.
And I'm like,

Speaker 2 I got your rats. All of it, they can even answer a toy telephone.
I'll do it for free just for the movie credit. So I got the job because my price was great.

Speaker 2 And I, and because my boss was kind of a dream squasher.

Speaker 2 And with the movie industry, they don't give you a lot of notice. They call me on a Friday.
They say, okay, your day's on Monday. That's so busy.

Speaker 1 Yep.

Speaker 2 So I asked for the day off. And they said, nope, sorry.
And so then I quit my job. I quit my full-time job for a one-day non-paying film shoot with rats.
And

Speaker 2 it was

Speaker 2 it was my big break

Speaker 2 yeah it was i mean everything happened after that wgn showed up okay so hold on so let's so you get the break you go to the set you do the shoot with the rats and how do they pull it off oh i mean they they the rats did perfectly i went out to the yeah i mean i went i went out there the day the day before approximately practiced with them and everything rehearsed them so i kind of knew what they you know what so they kept talking on the way in like look guys this is it like do you feel like you have that

Speaker 1 you know that um

Speaker 1 you can create that ambiance with them that you guys are.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 We're just, I mean, there's like, it's really hard to do.

Speaker 1 Like Phil Jackson kind of with them, you know?

Speaker 2 There's this like, it's like a, almost like a,

Speaker 2 an electric field. So especially when you're working on a, on a set with an animal and you can't be right next to them.

Speaker 2 So you've, you've done your training, you've done your prep with the rat or any animal, right?

Speaker 2 And now you're off camera and you have to send in the rat or whatever animal it is to do what you've trained them to do. And you are not, you can't be next to them.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 there's this like electric feel, like a communication going where, you know, like

Speaker 2 just like, you know, you've got this, you've got this, you've got this, do this, do that, you know, and, and, and it, when it, when it comes together and it's such a magical moment when, and they just pull it off.

Speaker 2 And I mean, the whole crew applauds. I mean, they were just, everybody was just amazed amazed that

Speaker 2 this happened, right? And then a film crew showed up, you know, a news crew because they heard that there was going to be a rat lady, you know, on the movie set.

Speaker 2 So they coined me the Rat Lady of Chicago.

Speaker 1 Oh, God, beautiful.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So then CNN picked it up and broadcast this, you know, all over the country.

Speaker 2 And next thing you know, I'm flying to Italy to be on this show with the Mino D'Amato show on Christmas Eve with my trained rats. And it just snowballed from there.

Speaker 1 I mean, so you flew over there for Christmas Eve to be on an Italian television show. Yes.
And how many rats do you have with you?

Speaker 2 I had about six rats with me. Oh.
Yeah. And then they.

Speaker 1 And what did do you remember any of the names? Do you remember any of the

Speaker 2 oh, probably Jasper and Ramsey and Cicero? And I named a lot of them. I named, I started to name them after streets in Chicago.
So I had a Cicero and Harlem and

Speaker 2 yeah, Jasper and Ramsey came later on. But yeah, so a lot of them were Chicago streets.

Speaker 1 Gunshot would be one of them.

Speaker 1 Gunshot's a cute name, actually. Wow.
So you have these rats and you guys are over there. Do you remember that? Was it Christmas Eve? What was it?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was Christmas Eve and a show called Amino to Moto Show. And they didn't give me an earpiece for translation.
So the guy is like,

Speaker 2 and I'm like,

Speaker 1 no way.

Speaker 2 Like, don't know what you're saying.

Speaker 1 You're just sitting there and the guy is speaking what?

Speaker 2 It's, you know, he's, you know, I'm in Italy. So he's speaking Italian.
Yeah, he's speaking Italian. I don't know any Italian.

Speaker 2 I'm like, I don't know what you're saying. When he realized that I didn't know,

Speaker 2 I didn't know what he, I didn't have my earpiece. So then he translated.
Luckily, he knew he both knew he knew Italian and English.

Speaker 2 So then he would repeat the question in English, and then I would answer, and then he would translate it back. So it was saved, but there was a deer in the headlights moment of like, oh, no.

Speaker 1 Because you're also a very attractive woman. And was there ever any of these guys trying to like hit on you? Was there like a lot of love interest going on?

Speaker 2 Surprisingly, I did really well.

Speaker 2 And, you know, it is, in spite of being the rat lady and having rats crawling all over me, much better than the cat thing, where the cat thing was a real game killer.

Speaker 2 But the, but as the rat lady, I mean, I did get, you know, I did have a lot. I mean, I had stalkers.
Oh, really? Yeah, it was crazy. I had a guy show up in a limo outside of my house.

Speaker 1 A rich stalker.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. He was young.
He was very young. And yeah, apparently he had money.
And he'd been, you know, like just kind of an adoring fan and wanted to take me for a limo ride.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, well, I don't really know you.

Speaker 1 But you got to go, huh?

Speaker 2 Well, I sat and had a drink with him in the limo. So I'm like, I've got to let you drive off with me in this limo.
But I'll sit down here with you for a bit. Because

Speaker 2 I mean, after the whole, you know, WGN, Chicago Very Young, Rat Lady, and then CNN, and then the flying out to Italy, then didn't things just like snowballed.

Speaker 2 I was like on all the big talk shows and uh geraldo and the polly sure he had that uh series back then yeah yeah um yeah oh polly's world was it he has a two-part episode where i trapped him where i lock him in the room overnight with all the rats really yeah polly yeah and did was polly flirting with you he likes the ladies you know if he was i wasn't picking up on it because i really wasn't even familiar with him i didn't even know who this guy was i'm like why is he was he what's this weasel thing he keeps talking about yeah because the weasel and the rats.

Speaker 1 That's really. Yeah, just that's the same marsupials, I think.

Speaker 2 They're

Speaker 2 weasels. Well, road, yeah, it's a rodentia.
Yeah, I don't think weasels are rodents. They're, they're, weasels are more

Speaker 2 like the ferret

Speaker 2 group and you know rats and are rodents. So

Speaker 2 I don't think the weasels and the rats are really related, but they might be enemies per se.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I can see that.

Speaker 1 So things really start going. The rat game is good.
You're out there and you're, and like, what's the show? How long is the show with the rats?

Speaker 2 Oh, the show is like maybe 10, 12, 15 minutes or so.

Speaker 1 God, so you're crushing it. And are people paying you good money to come and perform?

Speaker 2 No, not really. I mean, it was, it was, it was just,

Speaker 2 I mean, it was decent money then. I mean, it also was a nightclub.
I got free drinks. So,

Speaker 2 so, and then whatever tips I might get, they might pay me a nominal fee. Cause I also, at that point, I had, uh, you know, other animals.
I had, you know, snakes.

Speaker 2 So they would hire me sometimes to walk around with a snake at a club and such. So, you know, it was the kind of, you know, back in the 90s.
So

Speaker 2 you got paid a nominal amount and then free drink. So that's, that was like fun.
And you're getting to, you know, meet all these interesting people and kind of get paid a little bit to do it and

Speaker 2 have fun and just kind of build a name and get known. I mean, I became, I was like the rat lady of Chicago.

Speaker 2 And it all stemmed from this whole idea that I had. And then the guys walking in that pet store.
What are the chances of that happening? I'm there. I take, I get, get the movie job.

Speaker 2 I quit my job without hesitation. And bam, it just snowballs into all of these things.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, yeah, look, if anybody knows the rat world, I.

Speaker 1 I know it and love it. You know, I know it and love it.
I'm a rat and I'm a rat at heart. I've got the heart of a large rat, probably.

Speaker 1 And that's normal, I think.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 if you're selling something online, it's

Speaker 1 well, it can be hectic. I remember when we first started our online store, it was, it was, um, we were piecemealing it.
We were trying to figure it out all ourselves, and

Speaker 1 it was, it was a nightmare. But things changed with Shopify.
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Speaker 1 and how do you get into

Speaker 1 because now i mean what you've been most known for now would be the um acrocats yeah now and now i'm known yeah known for the for the acrocats so and but how do you get to that how do you get from i mean from rats to cats i mean one could say it'd be easy to see how you would get there well cats are cats are notoriously difficult to to work with i had experimented putting a cat in one of my shows early on Oh, with the rats?

Speaker 2 Yeah, with the rats.

Speaker 2 I had it like,

Speaker 2 it was supposed to pull a sled, and the rats had little Santa hats on it, and the cat was, you know, going to, you know, wear like antlers and pull the sled.

Speaker 2 It worked in the, and it worked perfectly in rehearsal at home. Everything was great.
And then I tried it, you know, in a live atmosphere, and the cat was like,

Speaker 2 forget this, just zips across the stage, and the rats are like, you know,

Speaker 2 popping out of the sleigh.

Speaker 1 You know, they're all.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they're just like, what's going on? You know,

Speaker 1 things have changed. Somebody called an audible.
They do have lines for Macbeth up there and shit.

Speaker 2 The cat abandons a sled. The rats crawl back in the sled and just sit there waiting for the, you know, what's next? That cat was crazy.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So that, so I was like, ah, so I didn't work with cats for a long time, but years later,

Speaker 2 I had been working as a wildlife educator because at one point I discovered I couldn't make a living on just rats.

Speaker 2 So I kind of expanded and I was working pretty steadily teaching kids, you know, schools and libraries all about wildlife.

Speaker 1 So at that point, you kind of giving up on the ratty.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, it's still the rat work. Are you still doing it? I'm still doing the rats.
I'm still known. I'm still getting all the rat work.

Speaker 2 I was getting any

Speaker 2 music videos, any horror movies, anything that came into town that needed a trained rat.

Speaker 1 Any rat work.

Speaker 2 Any rat work. I'm getting the rat work.

Speaker 1 You're the bait.

Speaker 2 I am the one to come to for the rats.

Speaker 1 Yeah. God, that's so good.
And then

Speaker 1 what about,

Speaker 1 so you're getting the rat work.

Speaker 1 You're also realizing the,

Speaker 1 but you also, but you start to realize that it's not enough income.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And where are the rats living? Do the rats live with you?

Speaker 2 Oh, always. All the animals always live with me all the time.
Like it's never been a separation of me and the animals.

Speaker 1 And would y'all sleep in separate rooms or what's that like?

Speaker 2 I had a rat room at one point. I was the landlord's worst nightmare, really.
I mean, I just, those rats were, I mean, I had a whole room full of them just dedicated to the rats.

Speaker 1 And would they get out sometimes?

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 they chewed a hole in the screen

Speaker 2 of the apartment I was in. Like I said, I had to remove every like three years.

Speaker 1 Redemption.

Speaker 2 And I'm on the sidewalk and I'm looking up at my second floor apartment and I see rats on the ledge. And I was like, what's going on? Why are the rats out on the ledge?

Speaker 2 And I go upstairs and I'm like, oh, they chewed a hole through the screen. And they were climbing across the ledge and then hopping in the window to the rest of my house.

Speaker 2 So I'm like, oh, well, so I had to do some patchwork and such. But yeah,

Speaker 1 now, do you think that they didn't want to be a part of the show anymore? Or are they

Speaker 2 just being rats? I mean, they had a whole room. I wanted them to have freedom.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 And have, you know, because there were ropes and ladders and all sorts of toys in there for them. So, but they're also rats.
They're going to do what rats do. They're rodents.

Speaker 1 They're going to chew. Oh, yeah.
Rats are going to do rats. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And yeah.

Speaker 2 So there, and there was a lot of them because, you know, also, especially for Halloween, you know, that was a big hiring time for me with the rats and to be the, you know, the guy i don't have the rat lady of you know

Speaker 2 in a haunted house and such so uh but yeah the the right you know the rats and all the animals i raised all my animals from babies and they were you know part of you know part of my daily life i took them everywhere with me and you know i'm their mom and you have to especially if you're working with any animal in any kind of public setting you you know you need to acclimate them to that early on and that's that's a you know it's a lot of work and dedication to be carting around you know i'd be walking down the street i'd be pushing a stroller or carrying a carrier.

Speaker 2 You know, people be like, they'd have this look on their face, like, oh, I can't wait to see what's in the carrier. And then I'd just see their face drop when they'd see that it was rats.

Speaker 2 They were like, the color drains out of their face. They can't handle it.
Yeah, yeah. They're like, oh, but because rats are just misunderstood, but they're such wonderful pets.

Speaker 2 And I turned so many people into rat lovers. I convince parents to get your child a rat, not a hamster.
They're just misunderstood. It's just the name, but they're the best.

Speaker 2 They won't ever bite your child.

Speaker 2 You can teach them names. You can teach them tricks.

Speaker 2 They are affectionate. They're the best pet that you can buy for a child.
But, you know, it was, it was,

Speaker 2 so I turned a lot of people into rap lovers.

Speaker 1 Well, we used to, one of my first jobs was selling hamsters when I was growing up. We used to sell them outside of raves and concerts.
And I grew up in a hamster breeding area.

Speaker 1 And so you'd see a lot of rodentia, small rodentia, small ground game. The Roborovskies were the ones that were sold then.
I don't know if you're familiar with that strand of them.

Speaker 1 But that was the kind of the popular strand of hamp that was going on in our area. Bring it up, the Roborovsky's, if you can, there, Ben.

Speaker 1 If you don't mind.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is the dwarf hamsters. These are a lot of what we were peddling back in the day.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. No, I had

Speaker 2 hamsters growing up, too. Beautiful.

Speaker 1 And a lot of that market went to Russia eventually, or they started getting these Russian imported hamsters. And that for a while,

Speaker 1 that killed a lot of the

Speaker 1 like

Speaker 1 they started getting more like the red-eyed, the small white red-eyed hamsters. Still cute, but not what a lot of kids were looking for, really.

Speaker 1 And that really, I think, a lot had to do with like a lot of that Stephen King kind of, when he, you know, when that kind of stuff took off. But

Speaker 1 so you really were like a mother to a lot of these rats.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. I mean, I, I, you know, hand-raised them all.

Speaker 1 Do you ever get any issues with the actual mother of the rats?

Speaker 2 Was there ever any moments where you had to be like, let them know that they it was a shared territory or that you were just there to help i mean it's it's i it just i didn't like take the rats away from their mother prematurely but as soon as they were weaned i mean the mom rat isn't really like these are my children i want to take care of them oh she's not yeah no they're like go i'm tired tired of you all so it you know once once they're weaned you know then i would start you know i'd carry them around in my pocket or you know you know on my shoulder maybe in my hair you know just i carry them around everywhere that's beautiful So that they were, you know, they were like, you know, part of, you know, part of me and they, they were very comfortable

Speaker 2 to be held. And they'd be on me.
They'd be on, you know, my shoulder. They'd go to someone else's shoulder, back to my shoulder.
You know, very personable. They've got such great personalities.

Speaker 2 They're just misunderstood. So

Speaker 1 you say, you say that misunderstood. Yeah.
And look, baby girl, I think it's beautiful.

Speaker 1 that you love these animals so much. I think it's just important to find something to love, you know? And yeah, what's so misunderstood misunderstood about them, do you feel like?

Speaker 2 Well, they just have a bad reputation.

Speaker 1 How did they get it, though? Well, I mean, they started it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they did. But, I mean, well, the whole

Speaker 2 plague,

Speaker 2 the

Speaker 1 play didn't help.

Speaker 2 The play, yeah, that didn't help. And then, of course, there always play villains in the movies.
So, you know,

Speaker 2 the Willard, the Ben and the Willard movies.

Speaker 1 Chuck E. Cheese, they tried to bring him back and give him a little bit of it.
That was kind of some good PR, I feel like.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, but it's still like, you know, just that we're rat. You know, ratatouille helped some.
Yeah, that definitely did help some.

Speaker 2 And people have are definitely, I mean, there's now there's rat fanciers. Yeah.
I mean, there's, there's a lot of people. There's a lot of rat ladies out there now.

Speaker 1 Oh, I'm a damn rat king. I mean, our

Speaker 1 tour is Return of the Rat tour. Yeah.
Oh. That's our stand-up comedy tour is the Return of the Rat tour.
And so

Speaker 1 I certainly get that some people don't understand the value of a rat.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 It's just, you know, the name rat. So sometimes I I'd tell people it was a African gerbil or a Honduran hamster, Honduran long-tailed hamster.

Speaker 1 And that changes their attitude.

Speaker 2 And then they're like, oh, okay, it's kind of cute. And then like two months later, I'd be like, it's actually a rat.

Speaker 2 Then they're in love.

Speaker 1 They're already in love, yeah.

Speaker 1 Or one of these Jamaican branch kittens or whatever, and you trick them or whatever.

Speaker 1 And it's just, yeah, it's just something like, yeah, it's just your buddy. It's your buddy

Speaker 1 Marvin or whatever or whatever.

Speaker 2 Ship them.

Speaker 2 I've had to transport them because I was flying out, you know, being flown to places, you know, Los Angeles to do things. And so I'd have to bring, you know, get the rat, take the rats on the flight.

Speaker 2 And I'd have the health certificate say, you know, Honduran long-tailed hamster. Because if you got the wrong person and they saw rats, they don't want rats on their plane.

Speaker 2 So I just put it on the, you know, they don't want a certificate. And they'd be like, they look a lot like rats.
And I'm like, yeah, don't they?

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're a little bit.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's very, it's a very exotic hamster that does look a bit like rats.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And what was your life like personally at the time? Like, what was your, were you married? Were you single? Never married.
Never married.

Speaker 2 No, no. When you know what you want to do and you're seven years old,

Speaker 2 and it was, it was my life dream. You can't, like, I mean, marriage is a job.
I mean, it's, I mean, it's all, it's all fun and romance

Speaker 2 in the beginning. And, and, but if you, if you have a, if you actually sign the paper and you have a partnership with somebody, now your actions affect them.

Speaker 2 And I wanted to be able to hop on a flight and take a job anywhere, you know,

Speaker 2 because I knew what I wanted to do at such a young age. And then, you know, my life decisions would be affecting another person if I got married.
And that's too much. Yeah.
And I wanted my freedom.

Speaker 2 I wanted freedom to pursue my passion, my dream, what I wanted to do since I was seven.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 it was just not, my parents, they were married for 54 years, wonderful marriage, like literally like, honey, I'm home. There was no arguing in the house.

Speaker 2 It was, it was just like out of, it was like out of the, out of a movie. It was like Pleasantville.

Speaker 2 I always tell people, I came from Pleasantville, but it seemed a little, you know, boring and stifling.

Speaker 2 And I wanted to adventure and excitement and go places and do things and train, you know, train animals for film and television. And

Speaker 2 I loved horror movies. So obviously rats were the way to go.
And

Speaker 2 yeah, it just, so I never, yeah, I did not go to take the marriage

Speaker 1 route. Yeah, I didn't.

Speaker 2 Was there love at some point and it was just did you ever did you ever date a man and they just couldn't accept the animalia that was in your life um i mean i i've i you know i've had i've had great romances i i mean i've had boyfriends throughout the years and and you know wonderful love affairs and and really you know relationships that you know a lot of times it would it would kind of i'd kind of have to break up with them in the spring because it was baby season so when baby season came around and i'm and i'm bottle feeding you know animals i it's really hard to maintain the the romantic relationship yeah it's hard to breastfeed a man

Speaker 2 just like i'm bottle feeding you know and i'm like it's all right i mean i gotta bottle feed these you know animals like like round the clock but that's an excuse i think you hear a lot from women they're like oh i have to wash my hair i have to bottle feed these animals

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 1 i think that's something that sometimes you would hear a lot like i've definitely heard that from girls before i have to bottle feed these animals Yeah, we have to redo the stairs at my dad's house, whatever.

Speaker 2 I'm like, it's another excuse.

Speaker 1 Yeah, just, oh, yeah, definitely. I'm getting my teeth remodeled or whatever.
I'm like, you're lying to me, I think.

Speaker 2 I can show you the baby animals. I'm bottle feeding it.
And there was some that actually wanted to participate.

Speaker 2 And, and, you know, so, I mean, I've had boyfriends and relationships throughout the years. It's, but I just, I just never wanted to, you know, I've even had the marriage proposals.

Speaker 2 Like, they really wanted, yeah, they wanted to marry me because I, I, I'm,

Speaker 2 yeah, I'm a real, I'm actually a really great girlfriend. And, you know,

Speaker 2 I'm, I'm loyal and driven and creative. And, you know, but I still have a fun side and, and, I'm smart.
And, you know, I'm just like, there's a lot of

Speaker 2 a lot of things, but I'm not, I don't want to do dishes and, and I don't want to do that whole housewife stuff.

Speaker 1 Right. You don't want to be a housewife.

Speaker 2 I don't want to be a housewife. And, and so many, you know, you want to be be Tarzan's wife, kind of.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I just want to have, yeah, I don't want to, but so many, that's the end game. It's just like, it's got to lead somewhere.
So it's not going to lead to marriage and you doing my laundry.

Speaker 1 Right. I want to be able to have my own freedom.
I want to do, I want to live my life the way I want to live it. No, I certainly understand that.

Speaker 1 I mean, I understand that 100%.

Speaker 1 I didn't, for years, I didn't, when people were married, I was like, what do you even mean you're married? That seems crazy to me.

Speaker 1 But like, it took me a long time to even consider being married one day for so long. I was just so again, not against it, but I just wanted to live.
I wanted to be free

Speaker 1 and see who I was or who I wasn't without also affecting somebody else too heavily.

Speaker 1 But then even in relationships, I haven't done the best job of being a relationship man.

Speaker 1 I want to get into the cats. I'm glad that you talked about the rats because

Speaker 1 you know rats are near and dear to my heart in the sense of being that underdog being that animal that doesn't get looked at twice sometimes you know um or people would rather look at it almost uh disapprovingly before they even give it a chance to look at it um even just

Speaker 1 uh with a look of um possibility right rats don't really get that very much um

Speaker 1 now how do you get to the cats how do you start catting around And just so we know, so we're talking a regular size cat. How tall is it again?

Speaker 2 If we had one of them in here, you'd be able to see.

Speaker 1 How tall is a cat? Can you look that up?

Speaker 1 How tall is a regular cat? It's a,

Speaker 2 I mean, it would be about

Speaker 2 10 inches?

Speaker 1 Yeah, the. Oh, 9.1 to 9.8 inches.
Wow. Okay.
So, yeah, about 10-inch cat. Yeah, yeah.
So 10 inches in height.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 How do you get into cats? How do we get to acro cats? How do we get to, because I'll tell you what happened for me was

Speaker 1 my ex-girlfriend loved cats and she had two cats and

Speaker 1 I didn't, I was always, I've always been skeptical of cats, to be honest with you. I've been skeptical

Speaker 1 of a lot of

Speaker 1 stuff and cats was one of those things. And

Speaker 1 yeah, my stepdad would always even say stuff like he would call the cats names sometimes, like even in the neighborhood, or he'd call them like homosexuals or whatever, just say, you know,

Speaker 1 just stuff you say to cats or whatever. And so I was always like, oh, man, I don't know if cats are okay or not.
And

Speaker 1 then my ex-girlfriend had two cats. She loved them.
And she

Speaker 1 has been to your show before. Oh.
And she loved it. And so she was telling me about it one time and it just blew my mind.
I was like, there's somebody

Speaker 1 just carting cats around and just

Speaker 1 do, and the cats are doing shows and performing and putting on shows. And it just, I mean, it just shook me to my, the core of my curiosity.

Speaker 2 You know, where'd she see the show?

Speaker 1 I want to say she saw it in Portland, Oregon.

Speaker 2 Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
We've not been able to make it back out.

Speaker 1 This was years ago.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 We've post-COVID, it's, you know, we've had been a lot of struggles getting us getting things back, but we have not been able to get all the way back out to Oregon yet.

Speaker 2 But we always did love going to the West Coast. Yeah.
So when before everything fell apart.

Speaker 1 um, what fell apart?

Speaker 2 Oh, the, the, uh,

Speaker 2 there was a series of, uh, of things. Well, I got diagnosed with cancer.
Oh, you did?

Speaker 1 Yes. Very sorry to hear that.

Speaker 2 And then, uh, but I was cured. I went through treatment, was cured.
Oh, I'm happy to hear that. So I, I had, so I took one year off to

Speaker 2 get my health back. And then the next year, I was immediately back out on tour, did a nine-month tour with the cat, acrocats, with the cats.
Okay. And

Speaker 2 right, you know, at the end of that tour, a driver that we had had for four or five years scammed me and

Speaker 2 tried to basically steal the bus.

Speaker 2 So it just wiped us out financially.

Speaker 2 And just as we were trying to explore the options of trying to bring justice to what has happened, COVID hits. So,

Speaker 2 you know, it was just bam, bam, bam.

Speaker 1 Man.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So, and then because the bus set for two years without being able to tour, when we finally got it back, and then we had to undo all the damage that this guy had done because he was, he was supposed to be converting another bus first because he said, this bus is no good.

Speaker 2 It's dangerous to drive. We'll get it.
We'll get find a shell of a bus and then I'll transfer everything over to the, you know, that's usable.

Speaker 2 He was like, oh, it was all a lie, it was all a lie. In the meantime, he was just retrofitting

Speaker 2 my bus that was actually perfectly fine. There's issues with it, but it was not a death trap like he said it was.
He stripped the wrap off of it because it was a gorge, you know, covered with cats.

Speaker 2 It was gorgeous wrap. Stripped the wrap off of it.
He tore out the interior, took out all the cat, you know, catification, the kitten city area, he just demolished.

Speaker 2 And he was putting a bedroom in the back.

Speaker 2 I mean, he just, I guess he was going to flip it. And I don't know how, I don't know how his endgame was going to work because I still had the title.
I mean, I just paid the thing off.

Speaker 2 And we'd raised it.

Speaker 2 It's not like I bought,

Speaker 2 we got it through a Kickstarter.

Speaker 2 So the fans donated money to get this bus it's not like you can go out buy another bus and what why did he do this so much did you was he just a driver he he was he was uh kind of a pathological liar uh and he was young which made it which made prosecution really difficult because he he small town there's the sheriff family has the sheriff in the pocket what do you mean ricky did that yeah it seems like a he said she said kind of thing and i mean that sheriff just questioned me like i was the bad one.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 pretty much,

Speaker 2 because he doesn't have assets, no lawyers going to just pay you. Yeah, the lawyer, it's like, I mean, it's not about the money.
It's about justice. He committed a felony.

Speaker 1 What a piece of shit.

Speaker 2 I mean, he just decimated me to my core. I mean, I'll never, I mean, I had dreams of doing so much more as far as good work.

Speaker 2 I mean, I could be one of, I could have been one of those people out in crisis situations like Katrina rescuing animals animals because we were in a really good place at that point

Speaker 2 before the scam happened and that setback. And then we've just had to put so much money into the bus to get it back to its original.

Speaker 2 shape and then everything's dry rot having to sit for so long while COVID was going on because we couldn't travel.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 we're still sinking right now. It's sitting in a shop in Iowa and they were supposed to be fixing this light up.

Speaker 2 And they're like, they decided, well, we're not going to be able able to get to it it's you know we we thought it was gonna be this that this would fix it but it didn't and now

Speaker 2 we're we have other jobs that are more important than you so we basically get the bus back and it's not fixed and it's all Iowa is the only place that can fix this issue so once again it just

Speaker 2 just hit hit hit again hit hard with no with nothing with it not being repaired and having to spend you know this money bad luck and bad actors yeah yeah Bad actors.

Speaker 2 Bad people that just are not being helpful. And it's especially

Speaker 2 as a female, too, it's a struggle to get

Speaker 2 respect as a woman to get things done as a woman. I resort to having a guy make that call because I can't get anything done.

Speaker 1 That's unfortunate. I'm sorry that that happens.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was, so it was definitely rough times. And we're just

Speaker 2 finally kind of getting,

Speaker 2 you know, getting things rolling again. And, and it's just hard to find help post-COVID.
Nobody wants to work. Yeah.
Nobody wants to travel. It's hard to find

Speaker 2 girls whose boyfriends will let them go on the road. It's bizarre.
There's that double standard. Guys can tour, girls can't.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And we need more women out there entertaining everybody.
It's important.

Speaker 1 So how do we get from rats to cats? Take me on some of that journey.

Speaker 2 So I was, you know, the rats, I had to, I had to,

Speaker 2 I realized I couldn't make a living on just rats. So I became the rat company and friends.
and then I ended up changing the name to Amazing Animals.

Speaker 2 And I was doing the wildlife shows, so I was doing the doing those things.

Speaker 1 And was that a traveling show as well?

Speaker 2 No, no, it was, well, it was kind of traveling.

Speaker 1 Like, they were going to school, schools and stuff like that, but it wasn't like the tourists.

Speaker 2 It wasn't touring yet. So

Speaker 2 I fell in love with touring

Speaker 2 way later on, and that's kind of when the cats came into play. So I was doing the wildlife shows and libraries and schools, educating kids.

Speaker 2 But my really, you know, my heart and soul was I wanted to still wanted to train animals for film and television. So I realized you wanted to show animals.

Speaker 1 You wanted, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I just was like, always what I wanted to do is see my, you know, and see my cats in a commercial. Or see my animals in a commercial.
So there's, you know,

Speaker 2 there's not so much rat work out there. It's just not a whole lot.
So I thought, well, maybe I should, you know, there's a lot of dog trainers out there.

Speaker 2 The rats, you know, have kind of met their limit. You know, let's revisit the cat.
I know we had that one experience where there was, I was like, there's got to be a way to work these cats.

Speaker 1 So, you still want to do animals for film and television? Yeah, and you decide you're going to give cats another shot.

Speaker 2 Yeah, let's give cats another shot because I've always loved, always loved cats, but I know they're, they are difficult to work with. It is a, it is, they're, they're, um,

Speaker 2 you know, they're small, so they, there's a lot of predators out there, so they're a little bit like, what could get me? What could get me? So, you know,

Speaker 1 I had no idea,

Speaker 2 you know, I had no idea. Like, I needed to figure out how to make this work.
And so I thought, what if I did what I did all those years ago

Speaker 2 with the rats and try that with the cats? Put a little show together and start taking it around to low-key, no pressure, not charging money, just passing the hat. I started in art galleries.
So

Speaker 2 basically,

Speaker 2 I'm going to let the cats. teach me how to teach them.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 And so do you set up something kind of at home? Do you audition some cats? Like, how do you?

Speaker 2 So, I had this cat, tuna, that had come into my life that was brilliant. I mean, she was very focused, wanted to learn.
I had learned clicker training, a lot more about clicker training at this point.

Speaker 2 So, I was, uh, it actually started with tuna. Tuna was the inspiration behind the whole thing.

Speaker 2 I was taking her to pet expos, just kind of showing off what she could do, you know, and I'd have her ring a bell and tap a tip jar at a rescue table, and then I donate, you know, donate whatever she got into the rescue.

Speaker 2 And so, I was just taking her everywhere. I was taking her to the film festivals and having her play a guitar and ring a bell and do some things, trying to get her some work there.

Speaker 2 And I thought, well, let's, you know, try putting a show together. And so I found an art gallery that was, you know, looking for some kind of entertainment.

Speaker 2 And the band I had put together already at that point, and that was pretty solid.

Speaker 1 The band, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 The Rock Cats. So

Speaker 2 we had guitar, drums, and piano.

Speaker 1 And these are cats performing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so the band actually came first.

Speaker 1 And what cats were in it? Tuna's in it?

Speaker 2 Tuna played the cowbell, but that came later. Okay.
So

Speaker 2 she was the donation collector for the band. Okay.

Speaker 1 So she's really, yeah. She's

Speaker 1 got to earn in the bucks.

Speaker 2 Yeah. She's the one, you know, like, hey, better put some money in this tip jar kind of thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to have that.

Speaker 2 And the band had a curtain, so the Rock Cats. It had their own table.
They had their instruments, had their scent on it.

Speaker 2 So, so they, the cat, the band, the cat band seemed to work now the rest of the act i mean i i went to home depot i got a couple ladders and big rope and then you know some i tied weights to the ladders to keep them from folding in and i found some some stools at ikea my my initial setup was very crude just uh whatever could you know it was a lot of like dog agility props small dog agility props so uh so then i find an art gallery i'd set everything up and the cats i mean it was just

Speaker 2 the cats would come out they they'd like look around and stretch groom a little bit and and you know it was kind of a just a utter fail I mean there was a lot of a lot of fails right they wouldn't they wouldn't perform

Speaker 2 was it stage fright or was it anger do they hate they didn't this is all this is new to them this is new to me yeah they don't even know that they're a show cat yet yeah so so I'm I'm like trying to figure out okay what what do you need to make make you comfortable so i so i started bringing my own floor like a rollout floor so i brought a floor that had their scent on it and i realized that they're always doing this like okay i go okay they don't like they don't like knowing what's behind not what you know what is behind them they need to know what's behind them so then i put up a backdrop behind them so now they have a solid back wall behind them they have a floor that is they're familiar with the scent and i've been working them at home and now i'm bringing them into this new environment tuna's pretty solid she'll do her trick she'll ring her bell she'll do the various things the other cats she's your go-to you know she's the go-to Now, the other cats are a little bit, you know, hesitant, they're a little slow,

Speaker 2 and but they're doing it, but they're doing, they're doing it, but they're doing it at their own pace.

Speaker 2 So, uh, so then I would just have to come up with funny things to say while

Speaker 2 we're waiting for the cats to maybe do something or maybe not do something.

Speaker 1 And so, you had to be the performer at that point.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. I mean, I've consistently had to be the performer because those cats are mixing it up every show.
I never know what's going to happen or not happen.

Speaker 2 And because it's, I have a well, because they're damn pets. Well, the the cat, well, also, because I have a personal relationship with the cats.

Speaker 2 They're not just kenneled with only with where they just come out during training and then they're back to the kennels. I mean, I watch television with these cats.
I sleep with these cats.

Speaker 2 You know, like I spend, I take them on road trips.

Speaker 1 You know, we're so cats would sometimes sleep in your bed. Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 I mean, especially if it's a little cold, you know, pile on more cats. I mean,

Speaker 1 yeah, it's just unlimited cats.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, exactly. They purr.
It's so comforting. I mean, just I love, I love them.
So they're my babies. I've raised some of them from two days old.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I bottle feed, you know, so, you know, saved hundreds of kittens with bottle feeding because that's like one of my, turned out to be one of my superpowers is to be able to

Speaker 2 save little babies. And so like little by little, the cats taught me what they needed to feel comfortable, you know, on stage.
And the, they started to, you know, the applause,

Speaker 2 there's something called like a secondary reinforcer. So there's a primary reinforcer, reinforcer, which is the food.
Click equals treat.

Speaker 1 They hear the click, they get a treat.

Speaker 2 So then the applause actually starts to, and laughter also becomes a secondary reinforcer. So they're like, oh, if we hear applause or laughter, we're also, that means we're doing good.

Speaker 2 We're going to get a treat.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so, of course, they'll take advantage of and do things just to get that laughter, which

Speaker 2 ends up kind of paying off in the show because people just find it hysterical as cat comes out doesn't sometimes they just leave the stage and sit out in the crowd the whole time come back sit on a stage it's like a Kodak Black or something yeah they they decide what they want to do when they want to do it if they want to do it and I just kind of follow helplessly along and come up with some witty banner to cover their their slowness and their fail moments and you know it's kind of like my story as well and how each of these cats came into my life their story how they came in you know how they came to be what their special skills are, what just, you know, just I see.

Speaker 1 So a lot of it is not as much,

Speaker 1 there's, there's certainly some training of the actual cats,

Speaker 1 but there's also you training yourself just to

Speaker 1 understand that these are cats and I need to

Speaker 1 try and just make it as comfortable an environment for them to be here. And then I need to train myself how to react if they don't react.
Yes, yes. Or how to react to whatever they're doing.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 and and they're all interesting so they're they're it's almost like improv oh it is improv it's solo improv yeah so and they come out we have carriers that they're in and they when they come out of their carrier they're the doors are of their carriers are open the carriers are there's are a safe place for them it's it's like a like a

Speaker 2 a portable it's like a green room yeah yeah so you know like they know that that's that's a safe place all of my cats are whistle trained to go to a carrier which is great for emergency situations if you need to call your cats quickly and get them out of the house because there's a fire or some disaster,

Speaker 2 you can blow a whistle and the cats come running. They go in the carriers, they're used to traveling.

Speaker 2 So, if they're not feeling it or they're having an uncomfortable moment and they're not liking the person in the front row that has big hair, which I'm always picking up on, I'm always watching the cats, I'm watching the audience, I'm watching, like just constantly reading and communicating with these cats while doing the show and

Speaker 2 making mental notes about, okay, you know, Wiki does not like people with big hair hair in the front row. They do not like wheels rolling by.
That's just, you know, that's babies crying.

Speaker 2 Everything stops when the babies cry.

Speaker 2 So it's, yeah, it's, there's a lot of challenges, but if they don't feel like coming, or if they have a moment, they're like, I need to, I'm going to, I'm going to go back to the carrier, they can do that.

Speaker 2 So they're, they, that is their safe, that's their safe, you know, it's like a portable base camp for them.

Speaker 2 So when I, when I take them out for like outings or camping, you know, I have a harness on them and then I also have a backpack.

Speaker 1 So wait, camping, Is that part of the show?

Speaker 2 No, that's just for fun.

Speaker 1 Okay, you guys will go camping?

Speaker 2 Yeah, oh, yeah, because when I'm raising new kittens and to,

Speaker 2 you know, either to adopt,

Speaker 2 yeah, to adopt out or to be in the show, you know, I want to bomb proof them so that they're comfortable in any atmosphere because, you know, the way the world is today, disaster could be around any corner.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And these cats need to be able to be comfortable being transferred to other areas.
And, you know, loud noises. So I always, you know, I have clicker.

Speaker 2 So so clicker and anytime they're they're freaked out by something especially there's a window of time with kittens where they they adapt really quickly like they may hear thunder and be like

Speaker 2 right and then I click and treat during that moment and I turn that bad experience into a good experience now

Speaker 2 next time it thunders they're like oh well that's nothing that and

Speaker 2 where's my tree yeah so even fireworks and such I mean I click and treat during my cats are not bothered by fireworks because they've all been,

Speaker 2 I've can, you know, whenever fireworks have been around, I had the clicker and the treats out and click and treat and click and treat.

Speaker 2 So anything that that they found distressing, and I, and I've learned more and more over the years since I've been doing this, because I put it together in like 2005.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I, you know, over the years, I've gotten better at reading the cats, knowing what they need. I don't need the floor anymore for them.
We still have the back.

Speaker 2 We still have a like a solid back wall, but they're, they're,

Speaker 2 they're just you know, they've just gotten better.

Speaker 1 I mean, are cats trustworthy? That's what I wear. I mean, are cats trustworthy?

Speaker 2 Oh, no, my goodness. I mean, we have the treats, and I knew it, you know, like we have cups of treats, and and various cats have their favorite treats.

Speaker 2 Some cats have allergies, so we have to have turkey for the cats that have allergies. We have to have the primo treats for cats like Asti, who's who's a seasoned pro

Speaker 2 and is, you know, is literally, we negotiate when, when it comes to her pole, climb and jump to my back trick. Like there's a negotiation that happens every time.
She's like, what do you got?

Speaker 1 Oh, she's like the OBJ of cats.

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Speaker 1 Yeah, who's in the show? What are some of the big like tuna was obviously is tuna still in the show?

Speaker 2 Well, the original tuna passed away to cancer.

Speaker 1 Oh, so I and how did you guys do that? Did you guys do you guys have a ceremony or anything like that?

Speaker 2 Well, I mean,

Speaker 2 by then, because I've I've, you know, I've been trying traveling.

Speaker 1 Were you all on the road when it happened?

Speaker 2 It happened during, you know, like right after,

Speaker 2 right, right after a tour. So I had like one last round of shows with her, and then I knew that it was going to be time.
So it was after our show. And every year we go to New Orleans for Christmas.

Speaker 2 So that was kind of her last time.

Speaker 2 And so I got to, you know, so we had January, February off. So I got to spend time with her.
And, and, you know, and the fan, you know, I had to let the fans know that this was going on.

Speaker 2 And because these people have supported us through the years, through all the, all the disasters all the crises you know the fans have been helping us through and so they're they know the cats it's not like the days of lassie where bring in another lassie i couldn't just be like bring in another tuna but i did i what you know i brought the i let the fans know that tuna's passing and we i i had five white cats that came in to audition to take her place and tuna helped train, you know, the training process kind of helped, you know, pick, you know, the proteges.

Speaker 2 And of course, nobody could top tuna was just brilliant there's so now we have two tunas that took the place of the original tuna and one of them's ahi tuna and one's albacore tuna oh okay so you still have some tunas but it's different now yes and the original tuna helped choose these ones yes so there's there's pictures of of you know the original tuna next to ahi tuna and alba you know bring they're both ringing bells and so so it kind of you know made everybody part of the process and everyone you know everyone grieved together for the, you know, the loss and embraced the new tunas.

Speaker 2 So, you know, I, I keep people, you know, involved.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because it's a famous, yeah. People love, I mean, my ex-girlfriend is a cat lover.
She loved her cats, you know, she loved them. She was a good cat mom and she loved them.
And she, I was amazed.

Speaker 1 It was one thing that even just showed me how good she was at loving people was just, you know, how much she could love a cat and, and really, you know, think about a cat.

Speaker 1 Did you guys bury Tuna anymore special or how did that go down?

Speaker 2 Oh, we cremated her. So she's, I have like a whole little

Speaker 2 glass

Speaker 2 area with the various, you know, Pinky was the first to go. She was my guitar player.

Speaker 1 I think she was on the guitar.

Speaker 2 She was a guitar player. She was my best guitar player ever.

Speaker 2 And then Tuna, then, you know, when we lost, you know, the pandemic was really tough on the cats because they're used to that so much stimulus.

Speaker 2 They love working. I mean, if the cats aren't working, their health, just like with people, if a person quits.

Speaker 2 You know, no purpose, if they lose their purpose in life, then they kind of, their health and mental health is affected. So, you know, we lost a couple of cats during that COVID time.

Speaker 2 And I just lost two 17-year-old cats that had been from the beginning. They were my...
From the very beginning, when I first started training cats, they were there with me. And then to

Speaker 2 lose them within four months of each other.

Speaker 1 And who were their names?

Speaker 2 and that was i oz and newie

Speaker 2 and and oz is that middle eastern uh well as oz well i was watching um oz that series oz with the oswald state penitentiary oh okay yeah i was bottle feeding itty and oz and it would take one episode per kitten per feeding so i'd chew through that entire series and so that's how oz got his name from uh you know from oz and he had a little bit of a every once in a while he would just go get crazy and beat up an orange cat for, you know, just

Speaker 2 out of nowhere. And I think that's very prison-like behavior also.
Yeah, I think it's because

Speaker 2 he was listening to all that violence in the background. I should have chosen some more friendly programming for him to listen to because he definitely had a temper, right?

Speaker 2 I was just like, Oz, you're the sweetest cat we have. What's going on? Why are you acting out like this?

Speaker 1 He's got a dark side.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he had a very dark side, but everybody loved Oz. I mean, he was, I mean, he didn't do much.
He was not the brightest one, but everybody loved him so much.

Speaker 2 We came up with tricks that he could do that were kind of fake tricks in the show.

Speaker 2 And, you know, like he jumped through a tissue paper hoop, but, you know, it was only this far. And he'd basically tear open the tissue paper and walk through the other side.

Speaker 2 And, and, and, and it was just so endearing. People loved that.
So

Speaker 1 magical. Yeah.
And God damn, I love seeing cats do something if it's good.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. I mean, knew he was number one.
In the end, towards the end, she was brilliant. She could do a lot.
She was one of my best film cats, too.

Speaker 2 But she would, at the end, she was like, I'm going to raise my, I'm going to do the one thing. Who's number one? Raise my paw, and then I'm going to play the piano, and that's it.

Speaker 2 That's all I'm going to do. And I was like, all right.

Speaker 1 A lot of seniors get like that. They got one, you know, they do their last trick or they'll, you know,

Speaker 1 you know, and then they'll just want to have a little bit of dessert and go to bed early or whatever.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. She was such a cranky cat.
She used to lay on my chest and growl and purr at the same time. I mean, just that was so tough losing her because she was my baby.

Speaker 2 And like, Oz loved everybody, but New Ye loved me.

Speaker 2 And now, so that it was really rough to, you know, when you have to make that decision to let him go. And so now I have,

Speaker 2 you know, the youngest cat right now is

Speaker 2 two years.

Speaker 2 But we're auditioning because we just had to retire two of our other seniors. So we're auditioning new cats for the show.
So we have two potentials. We actually brought two of them,

Speaker 2 two that

Speaker 2 we think are

Speaker 2 good acro cat potential.

Speaker 2 One's named Crush because she was the only survivor in a salvage lot in a car that was about to be crushed.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 2 So we got to her in the nick of time. Yeah, it really is a great name.
And

Speaker 2 she is just

Speaker 2 so, I mean,

Speaker 2 one training session, she's already hopping on the skateboard. Like, I'm ready to

Speaker 2 ready to do this.

Speaker 1 And can you tell cats that want to be in the show and cats that don't?

Speaker 1 Is that something?

Speaker 2 Well, it's hard to know. Females generally work better.
Like all the females

Speaker 2 have had a better work ethic than the males. The males are a little bit more like, why don't we just, you know, hang out and watch TV?

Speaker 2 And yeah, like, you know, do I really like Alba Cortuna is, you know, he's like, he plays the cowbell and he'll like hit it once. And I'm like, come on, like, how about, how about three?

Speaker 2 And he's like, One, two, three. So, I mean, they do, they do understand.

Speaker 1 A lot of people don't want to work anymore. I think it's a problem that we've had across

Speaker 1 the animal kingdom and the human kingdom. Oh, yeah.
That a lot of the work ethic is disappearing.

Speaker 1 How did the touring start?

Speaker 2 So I had just come back from

Speaker 2 a thing called a festival of cultures, where I was doing a wildlife program that was touring.

Speaker 2 So we were touring with five other groups, Polynesian Paradise, Africa, the European, where they did sword fighting.

Speaker 1 Are these all animal shows? No, they were

Speaker 2 so they were they were very it was an educational tour. So they basically were educating people about the uh

Speaker 2 their this culture. Got it.
So the uh and some of it was more fun, you know, like Europe, Europe, they did sword fighting and uh Native America was that was a little bit more educational.

Speaker 2 And then I represented wildlife of the world.

Speaker 2 So I, my little segment would be bringing out various animals and doing my little wildlife presentation to, you know, teach people like, you know, these various animals from these parts of the world.

Speaker 2 And that's when I fell in love with touring. I mean, and that's when I was

Speaker 2 traveling in an ambulance at that, you know, initially.

Speaker 1 And you guys got an old ambulance and turned it into the Agrocats.

Speaker 2 Well, I turned it, that was for

Speaker 2 the wildlife of the world. And then I got a small RV after that.
So that last year, I had the band together and I set it up on the kitchen table in this RV that we had.

Speaker 2 And so people would be walking by the RV and I'd be like, hey, you want to see something cool?

Speaker 2 And I'd and I open up the RV door and the band would play.

Speaker 2 You know, the cat band would play. And they're like, what?

Speaker 1 Because usually it's something for its sex.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you know, you want to see something real, you know, like, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 So that's.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's when I knew that maybe I could do something with these cats. And when I got back and I knew that wildlife, they weren't going to be including us in the next round of tours.

Speaker 2 And at this point, I would fallen in love with touring and traveling. What did you like about it?

Speaker 1 Oh, just seeing things.

Speaker 2 Just get to see,

Speaker 2 you know, because we try to stay in places for, you know, we don't tour like a band does where you're just one off, one off, one off.

Speaker 2 What fun is that? So, but if we stay in a place for like three weeks, you get to know people. I mean, I have, we go to New Orleans for like almost a month every December.
So I have friends there.

Speaker 2 I mean, I get to enjoy, I get to enjoy that city. You know, I get San Diego, beautiful weather right by the.

Speaker 2 the oceans, the sea lions, all the things that you can see in these other cities that are awesome.

Speaker 2 We're going to the East Coast this year. So, you know, Portland, Maine, absolutely love it right there.
But we're performing so close to the ocean.

Speaker 2 And you get to meet, you know, you get to meet people and get to know people and you just see, you know, I love roadside attractions.

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm a sucker for like biggest ball of twine, next exit, pull off now. Yes, I'm totally seeing that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we had a carnival worker in, and he, his um

Speaker 1 great-grandfather, uh, had three legs, and he was in one of the original, like, dime show, like one of the side shows, like back in like vaudeville days, almost right there. Frank Lentini, that's him.

Speaker 1 And he had three legs. And we had his great-grandson in.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I saw his segment. I watched because I was like,

Speaker 2 pretty cool. Yeah, yeah.
He seemed interesting because I've always, I always was loved, I always loved carnivals when I was that whole lifestyle.

Speaker 2 Since I was young, when I read the book, The Boxcar Children, and I stare at those freight trains, and I just wanted so badly to hop on one and just go. Because, I mean, my parents, I was their girl.

Speaker 1 I was their daughter.

Speaker 2 They kept me on a pretty short leash. Yeah.
So I was not allowed to roam the country.

Speaker 1 I wanted outside the neighborhood. You wanted to get off-leash fully.

Speaker 2 I wanted to get off-leash fully, exactly. And just see things and experience life.
And, you know,

Speaker 2 all the oh-nos and all the oh, yays. So because it's, there's been a lot of, I mean, I've learned so much on the road.
Like they gave me no instructions when I bought my first RV.

Speaker 2 They just handed me the keys, drove off the lot, lot, and I popped all the tires within the first six months because it was stored outside. And

Speaker 1 the tires are low. Yeah, the tire.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they had no instructions at all. So then Good Sam dumped me, so I didn't have that kind of roadside assistance anymore.

Speaker 1 And so this is when you're on the

Speaker 1 tour.

Speaker 2 Yes. You start the tour.

Speaker 1 You started in an RV.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, we started, we had an RV.

Speaker 1 And is it Acrocats? That's the name of the time?

Speaker 2 Yeah, there was the amazing Acrocats. And we did our first,

Speaker 2 you know, we did our first real show was like in 2006 at a little place called the Reversible Eye. And that was actually one of the more successful shows.

Speaker 2 At that point, I was like, okay, I'm finally doing, I've got enough put together that I can pull off a show. Where was this? It was in Chicago.

Speaker 1 Okay. And do you have all the cats you want? How many cats are in the show?

Speaker 2 At this point, I think there was maybe six, six, seven cats in the show.

Speaker 1 Okay. Was there ever a cat you wanted to get, you just couldn't get the contractor writer or the deal writer with them or whatever?

Speaker 2 Well, there's 2009 2009 is kind of when things really shifted from, you know, because my initial goal was to get the cats' attention

Speaker 2 for film and television work.

Speaker 1 Right, you still try. Yeah, you still,

Speaker 2 yeah, I'm still trying to get them film and television work, right?

Speaker 1 But it was, you know, like,

Speaker 2 you know, and it was working. I started, you know, I mean, my cat Bowie is on

Speaker 2 a Blue Buffalo Tastefuls commercial. He rocks it.
Oh,

Speaker 2 yeah, he's, it's, he's, he, he nails every shot.

Speaker 2 he's perfect looks in the camera he's he's he's fantastic i mean he's a poster child he's he's on the stores of the you know when i go in down the pets in the pet store i'm like there he is on all the food packages and you know i'm like that's my boy you know it's like yeah he's he's killing he's so great and he swaggers he's got such a swagger so so but initially that's you know what i started it to do that but then 2009 is when things shifted because I wanted to add another cat to the show.

Speaker 1 Okay. And at this point, why? Why do you, is the show faltering or are you just not?

Speaker 2 Well, a lot of the cats, like, you know, they start out strong, they're doing eight tricks, and the second, you know, they're going, you know, middle of the first year, you know, between the year one and two, they're like, yeah, so we're only going to do these tricks, these two tricks.

Speaker 2 I'm just going to, I just want to do these two tricks.

Speaker 1 So they get an ego.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, so they're, so they renegotiate their contract, and I'm like, I'm only going to do these two tricks. I'm like, well, who's going to do these tricks? It's not my problem.

Speaker 2 They don't care, not my problem.

Speaker 2 So then I'm like, well, I need to add another cat to the show.

Speaker 2 We need someone, you know, and I don't, I'm like, well, I really want it to be a rescue cat, but I don't want to just pick one and be what if it's not like the right one.

Speaker 2 And I can't just return it because, well, this one's dumb. You know, I can't do that.
So I thought, well, why don't I foster a litter?

Speaker 2 And then I'll train them all, pick the best one, and then find the rest of them home. So that was my plan.
And then I found

Speaker 2 a rescue that were desperate for fosters. So

Speaker 2 So they snatched me up immediately because there was a dire need for fosters. And they sent me into the trenches.
I mean, I had no, no knowledge,

Speaker 2 I had no idea what I was getting into. So they send me to a

Speaker 2 shelter that's basically an intake facility, not open to the public. People dump off animals there.
They take, send me the kitten room, and they say,

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 whoever you don't pick from this room today is going going to be euthanized. 12 kittens in that room.

Speaker 1 This is a Japanese game show?

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 2 no, it's it's it's a it was a yeah, I was just joking.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't know. But no, that's

Speaker 2 it could be a Japanese game show.

Speaker 2 It probably

Speaker 2 is a Japanese game show, actually, was with Squid Game out there and whatnot. I could see that.

Speaker 2 That could be.

Speaker 1 You walk into a room.

Speaker 2 I walk into a room. Whoever you don't pick, we're going to euthanize.
I'm like, what?

Speaker 2 So I was like, I'll take them all. Give them all.

Speaker 1 So you left out of there that day with how many kittens?

Speaker 2 With 12 kittens.

Speaker 2 I take them home. They have respiratory issues.

Speaker 1 I need to make that sound.

Speaker 2 They all have respiratory issues. I didn't know all my cats get sick.
So I'm medicating like, you know. 20 some cats, right? I get everybody healthy.
I train everybody up.

Speaker 2 And that was a really, like, you know that there's a pet overpopulation problem. You know that there's a problem.

Speaker 2 But until you're thrown into a situation like that, where you're actually told, these kittens are going to die today because no, there's no home for them.

Speaker 2 You see people dumping off their cats on a regular basis, just leaving them behind. You know, they're not part of the family, they're just left behind like garbage.

Speaker 1 Well, cats act like they want to leave all the time, too.

Speaker 1 Some of it is their fault. I'm not going to say that that should happen, but some of the cats are like well,

Speaker 2 that's because the person has not invested the time in the cat.

Speaker 1 And that could very well be true.

Speaker 2 And that is part of what that's

Speaker 2 where the change happened. So I got these cats, these 12 kittens, I've ended up finding homes for all of them.
And

Speaker 2 I realized that, and I went in and I got more.

Speaker 1 I bet nobody even wanted to talk to you because if you even talk to somebody, they're going to like, this lady's going to try to give me a cat.

Speaker 2 Oh, well, no, we're very picky about our new adopts.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 I mean, they have to develop an application,

Speaker 2 all the things. So, I mean,

Speaker 2 this was just really eye-opening for me.

Speaker 2 And I also realized that part of the, not only were just kittens being dunked off, but people were leaving their adult cats behind and that's because they felt like their cat didn't care they didn't have a relationship with their cat and that's why I thought well I can make a difference here I so part of you know my part of my show is like an educational to inspire people to you know like hey not only can cats do tricks you can teach your cat look at the relationship I my cats act like dogs they follow me around the house I mean I the little kittens that I just started training they follow me around like puppies they're like what are what are we gonna work whenever we're gonna work let's do something let's do something And I realized that I can make a difference here.

Speaker 2 I can help save lives. So not only have I saved actual lives, but I've fostered and found homes for 340 cats and kittens

Speaker 2 since that 2009.

Speaker 2 And I, you know, through my show, I

Speaker 2 foster a bunch, take them on the road with me, teach them tricks, put them in the show, and then find homes for them.

Speaker 1 Right after the show, people can't even adopt them.

Speaker 2 Well, because we stay in a place for a while. They have to fill out, they fill out the application.
We we check the references, and if they get approved, they get the training kit.

Speaker 2 All the kittens are trained to go to a carrier at the sound of a whistle.

Speaker 2 They're all comfortable with traveling in a car, which is a big thing. And they're all trained to do a parlor trick.
So like a high five, a sit pretty, a spin, maybe even playing the piano.

Speaker 2 And who's going to leave a cat behind that high fives you when you come in from work that day and they give you a high five?

Speaker 2 after your bad day you're not going to leave that cat behind so so my admission is like no cat gets left behind when disaster strikes or you move.

Speaker 2 That cat's part of your family. And because I've given the cat a good start by training them to do the basics and they all they're all clicker trained.

Speaker 1 They all do like the Marines almost. Yeah, no cat left behind.

Speaker 2 Yes, you know, this cat is going to be a permanent part of your life. I've already pre-trained it.

Speaker 1 It already knows.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it already knows that, you know, all you have to do is give him the cue and he's going to sit pretty for you. And here's, here's the whistle to call him for mealtime.

Speaker 1 So that's part of the, so part of the show also is that not only are the cats performing, but there's this underbelly, there's this positive underbelly of

Speaker 1 you shelling out cats to people and getting cats in the homes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yes. Well, good homes.

Speaker 1 Good homes. Good homes.

Speaker 2 So you don't just like hand them out on the corner.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, that's the thing about a cat. People are always like, dude, do you want a cat? And he'd be like,

Speaker 1 Just oh, just if you leave your door open, like a cat will come in. That's, that was always the thing about cats.
Like you don't, like one of my friends was

Speaker 1 like, dude, I think I'm going to buy this cat. I'm like, dude, you don't buy a cat.
You just

Speaker 1 be somewhere and just get a cat.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they choose you. They'll appear in your life.
Like they will.

Speaker 1 Like, just, you know, they let you know. They're like little whispers from God or whatever.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just, you know, I mean, we've had so many instances of, you know, like we're on Milwaukee Avenue in Chicago.

Speaker 2 One day a bus pulls up, door opens, a cat comes out, a little kitten comes out, steps out of the bus and walks up to our front door.

Speaker 2 Just like, hey, I heard this is a place to go.

Speaker 2 I need to be, I need to be here. So, and I'm like, what just happened here? This bus door just opened.
This kitten came out and is sitting at my front door. I mean, I witnessed it happen.

Speaker 1 You know, it's just a lot of cats have that fast pass or whatever, I know.

Speaker 1 With the tour,

Speaker 1 what was one of the tougher times that you had? You ever have a time where just the show barely got off the ground or it just didn't, something just happened?

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, there's been so many, especially with the bus. We had this Texas fiasco where we finally got back on the road and we had a fan clutch issue.

Speaker 2 The bus broke down.

Speaker 2 A couple of guys tried to fix it. They made it worse.
We were stuck in a bar off in the middle of nowhere for like three days. We had to cancel our show in Dallas.

Speaker 2 And I've probably canceled maybe a half dozen shows in my lifetime. I am one of those.
The show must go on. If there's a way to get there, I will get there and do the show.

Speaker 2 I mean, even when I was going through cancer treatment, I had a broken foot at the same time. I was still doing the show.
You know, the show must go on. People are excited about these cats.

Speaker 2 You know, they're like, can't wait to see the cats again. Like, we have repeat people, people that see the show every time we come to town.
Oh, cat people are insane.

Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely insane.

Speaker 2 They have their favorite cats. They have all my cats have their own merch.

Speaker 2 And so, you know, people, I don't want to let down the people that are so excited about the cats and and you know but we were there we were grounded we were not able to get you know to to that destination so we finally you know we end up getting towed to a proper repair place and it doesn't get fixed in time so we're having to rent you hauls and live in the theater during the show, during the show run.

Speaker 2 So then we get to, and this was like March, a couple of years ago in Texas, and we they had that freak snowstorm in Texas so so we the show was canceled then it wasn't then it was canceled then it wasn't because of the snowstorm so we're living in the venue you know with everything set up ready to go in case we can do the show and then the bus that was supposed to be ready for houston the broke down 20 minutes out of the shop

Speaker 2 so we did not you know we didn't have the bus yet again so we had to get another u-haul get transfer all the the the cats and get a you know get a rental car get all the cats to the next next venue.

Speaker 2 And luckily, the venues were amazing. So they let us move in and sleep in the venue.
And we were sleeping on couches. You know, we got some air mattresses.

Speaker 1 And also, and when you go on tour, how many people are on the tour bus with you or in the RV?

Speaker 2 Well, there's myself and then I usually have two, at least two assistants. And one point we had a driver that traveled with us, but post-COVID drivers are really hard to come by.

Speaker 2 You just, you know, there's a shortage of drivers and they

Speaker 2 generally want

Speaker 2 an obscene amount of money, and they want a hotel room that's

Speaker 2 crazy expensive. Like, we can't afford that.

Speaker 2 I want to keep the ticket prices somewhat reasonable. I mean, we've had to raise the prices pretty, you know, intensely as it is, but we always try to keep a level of seats that are affordable because

Speaker 2 between the fuel and

Speaker 2 so expensive. And I've learned how to drive the bus since because I'm like, I cannot be at the mercy of drivers anymore.

Speaker 1 Did you have to get a commercial driver's lessons or no?

Speaker 2 Well, Well, it's because it's a private-owned coach, so I own it.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 because I've been driving big vehicles, I started out with the ambulance, and then it was a 23-foot RV, then a 27-foot RV, then it was a 35-foot bus, and now it's a 45-foot bus.

Speaker 2 So I've just.

Speaker 1 You're driving an actual tour bus.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm driving an actual tour bus. Wow.

Speaker 1 Full of cats. Full of cats.
And assistants.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then we hire someone to drive the longer, like if it's a long drive, because it's just tough on me to do

Speaker 2 to drive. So we'll hire someone to do the long drive.
And then I'll, I'll drive like the short drives. Like when we go to the East Coast, I'll drive from Boston to Portland.

Speaker 2 And then we're going to stay in Portland for almost a month. Oh, good.
So we get to, you know, settle in a campground and go back and forth to the venue. It'd be fun.

Speaker 2 And yeah, so I mean, I just, I love that part of it where you get to see, you know, I get to see people I haven't seen in a couple of years.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Or, you know, we go like some places we go every year. We go to Texas every year, New Orleans every year.

Speaker 1 Have you ever had issues with performers? Like, have you ever had an issue, like a performer didn't make it to the show? Or like, what's that kind of like?

Speaker 2 Oh, I had last the last time we were in Portland, my assistant that was supposed to fly in. Her daughter got COVID, so she got COVID.
And then the assistant that was with me, she got COVID.

Speaker 2 So I had to do the entire show myself.

Speaker 2 And even our merch person who usually ran the merch also got COVID. So luckily, I had a mega fan and the sound guy who had been helping us with the show forever,

Speaker 2 he, you know, they chipped in and, you know, they helped me, you know, I'd box the cats, they'd help, you know, reset the stage, take the cats in.

Speaker 2 I would run in, I would like have like kind of half makeup on.

Speaker 2 I set the merch thing up and I'd, you know, start the selling of the merch and I'd instruct whoever volunteer was there, okay, this is what you need to do.

Speaker 2 And then I would go back out and get dressed for the show, and then I'd run back out on stage and I'd do the opening announcements, right?

Speaker 2 And then I'd sell the cat ears because we walk around with a tray. Cat ears, get your cat ears, cat ears, get your cat ears.

Speaker 2 So then I'd sell the cat ears, do the opening announcement, and then, you know, move, take the cat ears back. And then I had a friend that was kind of with me who

Speaker 2 she didn't, she was just there as like more of a friend. She didn't really know how the show went.
She hadn't done any rehearsals. So basically, she was kind of at least another body on stage.
stage.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was just pretty much me up there, you know,

Speaker 2 like, okay, let this cat out now, let this cat out now, and grabbing the props when I need them and explaining to the audience, like, it's just me up here. And,

Speaker 2 you know, I've never done this part before. So I'm like, I'm looking at this long script.
I'm going, I'm not going to say all that. I'm just going to wing it.
So this is a situation.

Speaker 2 So I don't know what's going to happen, but we're just going to, you know, enjoy the cats. And, and, and I had, and I learned, I mean, I learned a lot after that experience

Speaker 2 uh i i changed a lot of our you know the way we sell merch i i was like this is insane i so it's like we're gonna make part of this self-serve and and you know just only the you know important things do people have to you know dig for to give to the

Speaker 2 so you know i just i learned how learned where some of the where improvements needed to be made yeah sometimes it's certain things force you in a certain moment and then that's where you learn the most which is kind of wild yeah um and the show but the show must they all the show must go on.

Speaker 2 I am one of those, like, literally,

Speaker 2 the show must go on. You don't just decide, oh,

Speaker 2 you know, I'm not, I'm not feeling it today. Or, I mean, I've done like I've had full-on sick where I could have to talk in a whisper.

Speaker 2 You know, like I'm doing, I've got tea on stage, whispering into the microphone because I can barely, because I barely have a voice, but I'm still doing the best I can, and then immediately going and sleeping and resting.

Speaker 2 It's a lot.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, Oh, yeah.
Managing yourself and getting all that kind of stuff done is a lot.

Speaker 2 And then having to drive the bus, too.

Speaker 2 I can't even imagine. And still train the cats and raise the babies, the kittens.

Speaker 2 You know, we have portable incubators. So, you know, there's bottle.
A lot of times we have bottle babies with the bus.

Speaker 1 And have you ever gotten stopped by the police and they're like, what's going on here?

Speaker 2 Very, very rarely. It's, you know, I think that it, like, animals bring out the best in people for the most part.

Speaker 2 So we've run into so many great people out on the road that have been so helpful and have come to our rescue.

Speaker 1 Well, like, has there ever been a performance, like a cat that had it all, like a cat that kind of had it all and then just for some reason things just kind of fell apart?

Speaker 1 Like kind of like the crisp brown of like cats, kind of?

Speaker 2 Well, they.

Speaker 2 I think we've only had one cat that we were,

Speaker 2 after like a year of trying, I was like, this cat is just not, it's not going to be acrocat material. So we were tie, you know, we

Speaker 2 moved him to another, because I also still train, you know, cats and other animals for film and television. So I'm like, well, this guy, he's got, he's got model qualities.
He's a Siamese.

Speaker 2 He's got the Siamese coloring. So he could get, you know, commercial work.
And so he was transferred to another department.

Speaker 1 That's fair then.

Speaker 2 But a lot of the cats, when they get to that, you know, they decide like, okay, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that.
Or when they get older

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 if they get joint pain. Oh, yeah.
And so then I scale back on the tricks that I have them do because I certainly don't want them to experience pain.

Speaker 1 Of course not. Was there ever a trick that you tried to get cats to do and finally you decided to be like, we can't make this trick work?

Speaker 2 There's been some that I've tried because

Speaker 2 there's some rushing cat circuses out there that

Speaker 2 they're different

Speaker 2 kind of, I mean,

Speaker 2 they're sharp. Like, I mean, my cats come out and stretch and groom and just start, it's like hiring family.
They're not professional.

Speaker 2 But, you know, I've seen some pretty impressive things with these Russian cat circuses where they're really high up in the air, they do this army crawl.

Speaker 2 And at one point, I was like, I really want to teach this army crawl. But then I looked at it and I was like, how can that possibly be comfortable for the cat?

Speaker 2 It just, what, it just doesn't seem like it's,

Speaker 2 you know, I ended up abandoning attempting that trick because I looked at it and I thought,

Speaker 2 it doesn't seem right. It doesn't, how can that, it's not natural, it's not a natural skill at all.
Like balancing on a ball, on a barrel, climbing a rope, jumping down to my back.

Speaker 2 I mean, those are all cat agility type things. They got great balance.

Speaker 2 You know, none of the props are super high up where, you know, Asti, the one that jumps to my back, I mean, that's an eight-foot high pole. Yeah.
I mean, and she cheats.

Speaker 2 She crawls down two three feet and then jumps to my back i didn't even know until i saw a video clip that she's been cheating the whole time she's not even doing the true jump like leah thomas or whatever yeah um i'm like have you seen these russian cats jumping 20 feet up in the air down to a pillow well russia yeah look it's the same as like when those russian hamsters came in it kind of changed the game of

Speaker 1 um hamster sales in our area. I remember that.
The Russians are very severe about

Speaker 1 the dictatorship dictatorship over animals. Oh, yeah.
It's a different energy.

Speaker 1 Has there ever been a time where like you come back at halftime and the cats are all like just bummed out or they're smoking or whatever?

Speaker 2 They're just like that's catnip. They get in the catnip.
They get they get over to that merch table and roll around the catnip. I'm just like, oh, no.

Speaker 1 Will they?

Speaker 2 And it's like, oh, and they'll go into the audience. And if somebody's bought a catnip toy, they'll dig it right out of the purse.
They'll just take it. Just take it.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, and they'll drink their beer. I mean, like, Jax loves beer.
So, I mean, everybody's like, hold on to your drinks. Do not give this cat beer.
She loves beer. Don't let her drink the beer.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's not be a single mother, too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just, you know, just because the cats are always, they're opportunists, you know, they're going to do, you know, they're going to be like, I'm just going to go the catnip out there. See ya.

Speaker 2 You know, and I'm, I'm left like, what am I supposed to do here? Like, with the, because Albacore,

Speaker 2 just like we're supposed to be the star, he's supposed to have this moment where we do a a solo in the middle of the show. Of course.
And it's his highlight.

Speaker 2 And he's just, he's like, they got popcorn out there and PBR. I'm just going to go.
And I'm like, what do you mean you're going to go? And he's like, yeah, I'm just going to go.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, yeah, but this is your moment. He's like, yeah, I'm just going to go.
And I'm standing there. The music is starting.
I've got, I don't have my solo cat.

Speaker 2 He's just gone to the bar to get a PBR

Speaker 2 and some popcorn.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, send out Dixie. So Dixie comes out and does all the tricks just because she had been doing them.

Speaker 2 She was just bam, bam, bam, did the tricks better than he did.

Speaker 1 So she saved the day.

Speaker 2 So she saved the day.

Speaker 2 And he comes racing up on stage to try to take over because, hey, no, I don't want this other cat doing my job.

Speaker 2 And he's just failing because Dixie's just leaping

Speaker 2 higher and faster and doing like he's like three beats behind everything. So and that, and at that point, that's when that portion of the show turned into a competition.

Speaker 2 So I had to change that portion

Speaker 2 because of that incident. So I'm constantly having to change and evolve based on, like, we had a cat that got sick,

Speaker 2 you know, and then something was off. Like the first show we did, I was like, something's wrong with Bowie.

Speaker 2 So I, you know, I whispered to my, you know, like, skip out, skip this, skip this trick, skip that trick. So then Bowie went to the vet.

Speaker 2 And I had to

Speaker 2 like rearrange the show and bring out, you know, this cat to cover for for this trick for bowie and you know asti you're gonna be drumming you know for both shows and you know astie's the one that's like what the you know the oh yeah the one that's always like what do you she's like always what do you got when i get you know she has to climb up the pole yeah let me see what you got here yeah the eight foot pole and leap to my shoulder where she walks three feet down and then leaps to it she's like she literally is like what do you got if i don't have tuna or salmon and a good piece like she'll be like not doing it so i have to go back and get something better i go how about now?

Speaker 2 And then she'll do it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Did you ever have

Speaker 1 any issues where the show couldn't go on or

Speaker 1 like just issues with some of your performers that made it tough? Like what has been some of that?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 we had an incident where the star, the original Tuna, disappeared.

Speaker 2 Three hours before the show. The driver had left a little window open and

Speaker 2 Tuna was nowhere to be found. I mean, I had posters up in 10 minutes.

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm walking up and down the street calling, you know, whistling, all the things, you know, like, and you know, Tuna's like nowhere to be found. Now it's two hours before showtime.

Speaker 2 Now it's an hour before showtime. You know, I'm like, what am I going to do? She's the star of my show.
Like, she's like, this is like Tuna.

Speaker 2 You can't, I mean, she, like any of the other cats, I can cover for, but I mean, I have to have Tuna. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then I noticed that there's this white cat right next door to the venue we're performing at. And he's behind this wrought iron fence.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I was like,

Speaker 1 tuna?

Speaker 2 You know, and the cat just looks at me like,

Speaker 2 I don't know who you're talking.

Speaker 2 I don't know any tuna. And I was like,

Speaker 2 and then I asked the guy, I go, is this your cat? He goes, no. And I'm like, tuna?

Speaker 2 And still like nothing, right? So then I went and I got the bell. And I put the bell right inside the fence and rang it, which, of course, Tuna couldn't couldn't resist.

Speaker 2 That was like, oh, that's my trick. It just, just

Speaker 2 that, you know, can't help it. Like, there's one cat that if I hit a piano note, she comes running.
So I hit that bell and the cat that kept saying, no, I'm not tuna came right over and rang the bell.

Speaker 2 And I was like,

Speaker 2 you've been here this whole time. You've seen me running up and down the street, panicking, and you're just sitting here acting like you're this guy's pet when we have a show in like an hour now.

Speaker 2 And you've just been watching me panic. And you've been here this whole time.
And she's like,

Speaker 2 yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 didn't care like yeah whatever i i'll do yeah actors are so hard to deal with oh yeah the cat i mean it's that's most of what i've heard you know yeah i mean that's a lot of what i heard um do they do the cats do like a halftime at the show or anything like is there like a little break you guys all go back in the locker room or anything like that or it's just one full the show is a well it's like it's it like an hour and a half show okay and then we do a meet and greet so okay uh so it's expanded over the years now it's a nine we now have a nine-piece band It started out as a three-piece band, and then we added cowbell, and then we added chimes, and we added a chicken on cymbal and tambourine.

Speaker 2 And then we added a horn section. So now we have trumpet, saxophone, and clarinet.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's beautiful.

Speaker 2 So we have this nine-piece band.

Speaker 1 Of course, you got to have.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, people are more demanding now, too. People want to see it all.

Speaker 2 And it's so much fun. I mean, I just love the whole band playing together.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's beautiful.

Speaker 2 And then we do the meet and greet.

Speaker 2 So people get to come up, and depending on the size of the venue, if it's up to 150 people can come up and get it, do the meet and greet where they see the cats up close.

Speaker 2 They can take photos with the band.

Speaker 2 And also that way they can see that, because the cats could leave. Literally, if they're not comfortable or they're freaked out, they could just go.
I mean, it's a big theater. There's a

Speaker 1 big dude.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they could go in their carrier. They could hide.

Speaker 1 They could go back to outer space also.

Speaker 2 The fact that they're sitting there posing for a picture and just

Speaker 2 comfortable with the stampede of people coming up to get photos with them. That's a lot.

Speaker 2 Shows people also that like that this is this is a whole new level of cat. And if she can do it, and because my cats do fail, I mean, they come out and they groom.

Speaker 1 Yeah, have you ever had a cat's fight on stage?

Speaker 2 After the show, we've had, there's been some issues where

Speaker 2 there's some animosity that I have to keep certain cats separate for sure.

Speaker 1 It's like strippers.

Speaker 2 But yeah,

Speaker 2 there's been some moments where I have to keep

Speaker 2 certain ones away.

Speaker 1 And do you ever have a cat jump into the crowd and go after somebody or anything?

Speaker 2 Yeah, after, it was luckily it was after the show. So there was a little incident afterwards and we got them separated.
And, but, you know, it's,

Speaker 2 you know, like if we see like the one cat, like everybody knows who doesn't get along with somebody.

Speaker 2 So now we have spotters in the audience that it's like, you know, most of the cats are allowed to go out and wander and do their thing. But if this cat leaves,

Speaker 2 it's because he's, you know,

Speaker 2 yeah, he wants to start something. So bring, you know, make sure this cat comes back.
But the others, they're free to wander.

Speaker 2 And they, and, you know, like I said, it kind of keeps it fun because I never know what they're going to do. Yeah.
I'm constantly having to shift things around

Speaker 2 and just make it work.

Speaker 1 Work on the fly. Yeah.
Are people allowed to bring cats to the show?

Speaker 2 We prefer that they don't. I mean, we've had somebody occasionally sneak one in,

Speaker 2 but they prefer, you know, and sometimes the service dogs that have to be admitted, you know, they have to be at least four rows back so that they don't upset the cats.

Speaker 1 They might upset the show, yeah. Yeah, so yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 1 Yeah, is there after the show, you ever celebrate everything, give the cats a little bit of champagne or anything to kind of enjoy the evening, kind of?

Speaker 2 Oh, I mean, well, you know, catnip parties for sure. They get their, you know, catnip parties and they get the leftover snacks.
I mean, we cook fresh chicken, salmon, tuna, turkey, chicken liver.

Speaker 2 Like, they eat better than we do. Like, I'm eating Pringles out of a can.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a good name. McCormick and Schmicks, they're at or whatever.

Speaker 2 And they're, they're dining on fresh sushi, like sushi gray tuna that's lightly seared on both sides, rare in the middle. That's how they like it.
Right. And I, and I'm like eating Pringles.

Speaker 2 I'm like, oh man, this smells so good.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's baffling to me.

Speaker 1 Is there a lot of competition in the market? I've seen like there's like meow good death. I'm trying to think of some of the or like Scratchbox 20 I've seen.

Speaker 1 There's like some different band, like cat bands that I've seen online. But is there a lot of competition in the market? I mean, you mentioned there's some Russian shows.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that I'm really like the only touring act

Speaker 2 of this nature that's this and you know, full-on. I mean, there's there's Gregory Popovich, who's based out of Vegas, and he does tour around like I think once a year or so.
He hits in various places.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 he's kind of the only cat, you know, the like regularly touring show. And And then there is some of the cats.

Speaker 1 And that's a cat show also?

Speaker 2 It's cats, dogs, birds, and some other things.

Speaker 1 Okay, so it's multi-animals.

Speaker 2 Yeah, multi-animals. And so he's pretty well known for his cats.
And he started it in Branson and then got that Vegas job. So

Speaker 2 he's definitely well known for the cats. And then there's the,

Speaker 2 I think there's some

Speaker 2 Russian,

Speaker 2 two women

Speaker 2 that do like

Speaker 2 a cat act. You know, I think maybe they have like five cats or such, and they do a lot of the,

Speaker 2 they do some of the venues that I can't because my cats

Speaker 1 are,

Speaker 2 they're not going to want, you know, if I'm in a, if I'm in a hall where there's other things like booths and people always want me to come to these expos and whatnot, I'm like, you guys have like booths and serving food.

Speaker 2 And my cats, yeah, my cats are like, gonna be like, I'm just gonna, there's hot dogs over there. I'm just gonna go get a hot dog.
And why would I

Speaker 2 see you? So, but, you know, but there's,

Speaker 2 yeah, but there's definitely a couple their cats are a lot more

Speaker 2 like precise because

Speaker 2 the relationship, they have more of a professional relationship.

Speaker 1 Bella Caroli type of energy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's just, you know, they, they go, they're carry, they go to their carrier, they come out, they work, they go to their carrier.

Speaker 2 They're not hanging out and watching television at night with it with the with the animals.

Speaker 1 Right. It's a very, it's almost like being like Russian almost.
Yeah. Very Russian people.

Speaker 1 You know, in Russia, some of the children even have dolls that are made out of stone, and you would see kids with like a three or four pound doll. Like, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 But it also at the same time, it's like it teaches you that there's a weight of taking care of someone. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So it's, it's just, I mean, I had to make a choice at one point. Either I can have a slick show or I can

Speaker 2 enjoy being with the animals. Right.
And I, and I, I'm happy with the choice that I made because people seem to really love the fact that those cats sometimes do it and sometimes don't.

Speaker 2 And it actually is more encouraging because we sell sell training kits after the show so people can train their cats.

Speaker 1 Oh, people can do it at home.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so they're inspired to go home and train their own cats. I love that.
And it has made

Speaker 1 such a difference.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that people, I'll get letters from people and videos.

Speaker 2 Look what I trained my cat to do. And

Speaker 2 seeing your show changed my life. And this relationship that I have with this cat

Speaker 2 has completely changed. And the behavioral problems have stopped because I started paying attention and training my cat.
So, there's so many benefits. There's health benefits.

Speaker 1 Because a lot of people just think cats are fucking crazy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no,

Speaker 2 they're just they have all this energy. And if you're keeping them inside, because you need to, because it's dangerous out there, that you need to give them something to do with their brain.

Speaker 1 Because some people say they're even from outer space. Do you ever feel anything like that?

Speaker 2 No, I mean, I, I mean, I think that they're just very independent, intelligent,

Speaker 2 I mean, smarter than dogs in a way, because dogs are just like, oh, I'll do whatever. Where cats are grudge holders and very like, no, you know, stubborn.

Speaker 2 And, you know, you really have to work within, you know, within the cats. You have to make it fun for the cat, for sure.
You have to find out what the cat likes to do.

Speaker 2 I mean, I spent a lot of time just hanging out with the cats, watching them, especially like the group of kittens we have. You know, they're all running around.
I'm seeing who's climbing,

Speaker 2 who's perching, who's, who's using their paw. Like,

Speaker 2 what does this cat, what, you know, what can this cat do? what should I focus on?

Speaker 2 So, I, you know, just by hanging out with the cats and watching what they do, that's how I'm inspired by to come up with a trick to coordinate what, you know, what they can do.

Speaker 1 Wow. Um, if you had to pick like a Mount Rushmore of like your best performing cats and you had to put four of them on it, obviously, tuna, the original tuna is on there.
Who else is on there?

Speaker 1 Uh boy,

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 2 I mean, Austie's very solid, but slow.

Speaker 2 Slowly, so I mean, just hysterically solid, slow. Bowie is

Speaker 2 pretty good.

Speaker 2 Albacore tuna is solid, but it's kind of riding the coattails of, you know, like the original tuna. Like, he doesn't really feel like he has to prove himself.
You know, he's like, I'll do the minimum.

Speaker 2 And where tuna had a really, original tuna had a really great work ethic.

Speaker 1 That's what's nice. Yeah.
Having that is very nice.

Speaker 2 And then I have Newt is my youngest, and she is a mat, just crazy. I mean, I

Speaker 2 was,

Speaker 2 I was quarantined with, I had COVID for the first time ever. I was in New Orleans.
It was just her and I. And I had all, I had this time, so I actually was able to do shaping.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So a lot of times when, because I'm training fast.

Speaker 1 And shaping is what?

Speaker 2 Shaping is when you just sit with clicker and treats and you wait for the cat to do something. And then the cat has to figure out what it is you want to do without any clue from.

Speaker 1 So you let them learn it.

Speaker 2 I let them learn it. Teach themselves.

Speaker 1 Yes. That's really the best way.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So then they're like, oh, I I heard their click.
So, okay, what, you know, like you just see the light come on in their eyes once they, you know, that light bulb moment where they get it.

Speaker 2 They're like, oh, I think I get it. I thought, you know, because at first they're just like, what is it that you want? You know, like, I just don't get it.

Speaker 2 And then they hear the click and they're like, okay, something to do with the paw. Right.
Something to do with this paw. Something to do with this keyboard.
Oh, I think it's the keyboard.

Speaker 1 Like, oh, okay.

Speaker 2 And, you know, you just sit and you just wait. And then they're playing damn stairway and then yeah you're eating a lamb yeah it's and then when you see that light come on and and

Speaker 2 they're just they get it i mean so they basically they learn to learn and then they get creative too and they'll they'll come up with their own tricks or you know you'll start training them to do one thing and they'll be like no i want to do this instead And I love that about them, the creativity of that cats have of it, the fact, and the fact that they're negotiators too.

Speaker 2 Because, I mean, once I'm on stage, I'm like in front of an audience.

Speaker 2 i can't i can't like reset and be like okay we're gonna redo this here and i'm not gonna move on with the show until you get this right i have to just go with the flow and they know that i you know they i'm a little stuck so they'll be like i'm not gonna do this but i'll do this instead oh

Speaker 2 and i'm like

Speaker 1 that's only the most cat thing i've heard all day yeah i'll do this

Speaker 1 yeah i'll do this instead yeah but i do this instead we had a guy we had a corner on he said that cats would eat people if they passed away have you ever heard that well i totally believe it.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 1 they said, yeah, this guy said a cat could even eat your face within like 30-something hours or something if they wanted to.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. I mean, I respect that about cats.
A dog will die right along beside you. A cat's going to be like, is she taking her last breath? Maybe I'll start early.

Speaker 2 But I respect that.

Speaker 2 I respect that cats are grudge holders, too. Like you do something that.
that they don't like, you know, they like write it in their little book and like, I'm going to remember this.

Speaker 2 She just just did this.

Speaker 2 And so, yeah, that's, and I really do respect that about cats because they are not as forgiving, which is why, you know, you have to really, you know, make it, you know, can never be forced.

Speaker 2 It's got to be fun, you know, for the cat.

Speaker 1 And, and, like, if the cat is a cat. Right, if they're going to perform, they really are, they mean it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Because you're not going to get anything for free out of a cat.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 And, you know, but if it's, if it's a high, you know, reward, like if it's a salmon, I mean, it's like, okay, I'm going to drum a little bit more for the salmon than I will for the chicken.

Speaker 2 You know, with the youngsters, the kittens are like, chicken, that's great. We'll do everything.
They don't know. Yeah, they don't know.

Speaker 2 But the seasoned ones, they're like, yeah, let's see what you got here. That salmon looks a little dry.
You got anything better? Wow. Just, yeah.

Speaker 2 So, and I've had the cats, that same cat, go up that pole four times in a show. and just wait up there and I have to stop

Speaker 2 the show of, you know, because I'm at this part of the show and then Oxy's back up on that pole because she left instead of going back to her carrier, went back up the pole because she liked the particular cooking that day.

Speaker 2 The cooking was good that day. So she's like, I want more.

Speaker 1 So now the show's changed a little. We're going to keep, we're going to do maybe some different things that we might not have done.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So now I got to back, go back over there, get

Speaker 2 assume the position where I'm like leaning over. She does the jump to my back and then sometimes leaves again.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then ends up back on that pole and people are like pointing and I'm like, oh, again.

Speaker 1 So a lot of it's just watching you work with cats. It's like just the reality is that it's almost impossible what we're going to do our best.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. I'm just standing there, like my, you know, my arm flung out at this cat grooming.
And because it, especially, because I mean, I had

Speaker 2 probably one of the worst experiences I ever did early on in my career.

Speaker 2 I got a week-long gig in Branson.

Speaker 2 And because Popovich abandoned Branson for this, for the gig in

Speaker 2 Vegas, so they had no cat acting. They had billboards.
People were traveling miles to see the, you know, his cats. And so they hired this guy to put together another act to take the place of this.

Speaker 2 So he hired a dog act, a bird act, and then a cat act. And it was, he had, so a Russian, some, a couple Russian people coming in with cats, but he had one week where he didn't, they weren't available.

Speaker 2 So he brought me in on the advice of somebody who had never seen my show.

Speaker 2 And, you know, people are expecting this, you know, these.

Speaker 1 And this is a big opportunity because you're coming into Branson.

Speaker 2 Yeah, full theater. I mean, Tuna ran offstage the very first rehearsal.

Speaker 2 Oh, it was just, I mean, the, you know, the, the, the guy, he was like, listen, you know, your act is just, I'm not, you're supposed to be the headliner, but you can't be, so I'm going to have to bury you in the middle.

Speaker 2 And, and then in the meantime, you know, the dog people hated us because we weren't organized. The bird people hated us because the cats wanted to eat the birds.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So, and I'm just mortified because the cats aren't doing anything. And the cats are super sensitive.
So they're feeling the hate from the audience, right?

Speaker 2 You know, because people are expecting awesome cats and they're getting Samantha's not-so-amazing agro cats.

Speaker 2 And, you know, and I, I mean, I just wanted to slither out of town in the middle of the night, not even collect my fee and go back to cats.

Speaker 1 You were on the show early?

Speaker 2 Well, no, I was, I fulfilled my week. And during that time period, the guy that hired me, he gave me all sorts of tips and got help, got me organized and showed me how to play off.

Speaker 2 You know, like when, you know, when a cat did something, you just commit to it. Like, look at that.
The cat's doing nothing, but isn't that great?

Speaker 2 You know, and just really exaggerate the moves, you know, not do no teapot arms. You had to just, you know, bring that excitement.

Speaker 2 Even though the cat isn't doing anything, you just play it off as that's what you're supposed to do.

Speaker 2 Look at this amazing cat. Look at that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, go.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 so we just did the best we could. And then, you know, it was a very long, quiet drive home

Speaker 2 of like, do I should I even continue this hot mess? Because I was an epic fail,

Speaker 2 epic fail. Until, you know, I thought that was the worst until I bombed on Colbert.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, I saw that.

Speaker 2 Oh, that was the worst. Oh, and as soon as, and Nui, as soon as I opened up the carrier, Nui was like, didn't come out to skateboard.

Speaker 2 And I was like, oh, and she's like, what'd you think was going to happen? And I was like, you cherks, you know, this is our big opportunity for us. We're starting our Kickstarter campaign.

Speaker 2 And you guys are going to do this now, really? And they're like, oh, yeah,

Speaker 2 they got me good on that. I was just like,

Speaker 2 but luckily, he was a good sport about it.

Speaker 1 You guys saw he came out and kind of walked on the ball like that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he has cat ears on. He kept those cat ears.
He put them on occasionally. Oh, that's cool.

Speaker 1 He was a really great. That was awesome.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, but I only like four tricks out of ten happened.

Speaker 1 Do you think you really have any control over the cats? Do you think?

Speaker 2 It's,

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 a little bit, but it's really, and I think what went wrong there is that there were too, it's because they pick up on nervous energy. So if I'm nervous, they're nervous.

Speaker 2 And then I had all these extra assistants that were like, we want to be on the show. So we had too many people involved, too much energy, and they felt it.
And they felt all that nervous energy.

Speaker 2 So they were like, oh, we can't, we're not going to do it. We just can't do this.
So just like we really can't do when people want to hire us for an event. And it's a mixed bag of people.

Speaker 2 Like some are cat lovers, some aren't. Like my cats feel that energy.
They, they're like, we're, we don't feel the love. Yeah.
So that's why we do the, we, we rent out a theater.

Speaker 2 You know, we're, we're not really for hire.

Speaker 1 Right. It's more where we want cat lovers to come.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So it's a self-produced show.
So I rent out the theater. We do the advertising.
We do marketing. We do, you know,

Speaker 2 do everything from the beginning to end.

Speaker 2 And, you know, and it's hard to find venues that'll even let, you know, that'll let us.

Speaker 1 Oh, for sure. I mean, well, it's hard to find humans that will believe in what you're doing.

Speaker 1 I mean, I think it's, a lot of people think it's absolutely insane to drive around in a van with 11 cats or something. They think it's insane.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's something that you see of like a hoarder or somebody that's a

Speaker 1 some freelance

Speaker 1 Noah's Archean type of human, you know, but I think when you see that you love it so much and that your goal or a lot of your goal is to get these cats into like big time programming and get them fun opportunities if they want, if they want it and also to kind of meet the cats where they are it's like if they're not

Speaker 2 if some of them don't have it they don't have it you don't have to tell them that really you just work with where they are willing to work yeah exactly work within their parameters and and then and you know inspiring people to to train their own cats and and i know i've had i've saved like i've saved some of my own cats lives just because i because of the training routine like you know like i would have band practice every time anytime i cooked the because the band is set up in the kitchen anybody you know the band comes running and they take their place on their instruments and they start playing because they want they want treats you know they don't what song will they play it's all free form jazz it's like their own music so it's it's you know not all of them not not a lot of them are big hits i would say but uh it's their own i used to live in alphabet city in new york for a little bit and you would hear a lot of some of that at certain nights or whatever um but yeah but the one cat like my guitar player she was solid my best guitar player ever she didn't show up for band practice like she always showed up for band practice And I found, I went looking for her and she was like sitting in front of the fireplace.

Speaker 2 And I even offered her a free freebie. Like, here, how about take this? And she was like, not interested.
And I was like, something's wrong with Pinky. So I took her to the vet.
She had a fever.

Speaker 2 And I might not have noticed anything was wrong for several days to the point where it was too late.

Speaker 2 But because I had a routine established and because I have a routine established with these cats, you know, even blowing the whistle for feeding time, you can tell within five minutes if something's wrong with somebody.

Speaker 2 Just they might have a limp. They might be favoring one one side of their mouth when they chew, you know, like something's wrong.

Speaker 2 You know, I can, I can tell just because I've you know established a routine. And it doesn't, you know, you don't have to put together a huge act like I have.
You can just

Speaker 2 one simple trick. Yeah.
You know, even just the whistle to the carrier will give you all the information you need to know whether or not your cat needs to go to the vet.

Speaker 2 And now you can take your cat to the vet because it's already oriented to a carrier. Because when we do fostering and we adopt them out,

Speaker 2 they're already all used to traveling.

Speaker 1 Do you feel like they are the performers or that you are the performer?

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 it's a combination. We're both,

Speaker 2 we play off each other.

Speaker 2 So whatever, you know, whatever is happening with them

Speaker 2 and, you know, will

Speaker 2 causes my, you know, so it's, it's, it's both.

Speaker 2 So we're both performers, but I definitely, the improv thing, it's, I mean, I have to be like,

Speaker 2 just

Speaker 2 be on and also, but not nervous either. So

Speaker 2 I have to be like, okay, it's going to be fine.

Speaker 2 You know, I always tell people, especially new people that are, you know, get a little stage fright that,

Speaker 2 and I also suffer from stage fright, which really sucks to suffer from stage fright. Yeah.
So I'm like, ah. It's very normal.
You know, I had to kind of shove myself out there. Yes.

Speaker 2 There's the part of me that there's

Speaker 2 there's the there's the nurture of the bottle raise, you know, the the shy girl, because I mean, I was the shy outcast growing up. So there's still that shy little outcast in

Speaker 2 me that's taking, that's a nurturer. But then there's, you know, Samantha, the show person, right? And I don't even know where she is.
She's probably drinking at the bar.

Speaker 2 I don't know, but I'm like, where is she? Is she going to show up? Oh, I have to go out there. I don't even know if she's going to show up, you know, and then I get out there and then bam.

Speaker 2 the cats start and and and then there's that part of my personality that can that can pull it off and I'm like, oh, thank God you showed up. I didn't know where you were.
She's like, I was at the bar.

Speaker 2 You know, I'd show up.

Speaker 1 Will you have a cocktail before you go on stage usually?

Speaker 2 Yeah, oh, I'll have a little bit of, I'll have a glass of wine for you.

Speaker 1 You've got to have fun.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Well, it's just mainly to just,

Speaker 2 you know, so I'm relaxed. And then the cat, you know, so the cats are relaxed.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 There's videos of cats even drinking wine, but do cats care if you use profanity or drink around them? No, they, they,

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 they use profanity and, you know, in their own little world, they, they drink and smoke and do all the things.

Speaker 2 I mean, Asti's always seems as high as a kite on weed, you know, like a puff of smoke comes out of her carrier. You know, we all kind of see it because

Speaker 2 just like Albacor with the popcorn and the PBR, of course, he was not really holding a PBR and chugging it and popcorn in his other. I mean, they don't have opposable thumbs.

Speaker 2 They can't really do that. But, you know, I painted a picture and we all saw that.
Like, we all saw him walking down the aisle with popcorn and a PBR because he's got terrible taste and beard.

Speaker 2 And we all knew that he would chug that PBR, you know, before coming up on stage to try to take back what Dixie stole. And, you know,

Speaker 2 and everybody that's on the road, because

Speaker 2 we're in this 45-foot by 8 by 5-foot space with these cats and we're days on end, you know, just us, it's kind of like, you know, Tom Hankson Castaway with Wilson.

Speaker 2 You know, they, you know, we have whole backstories and, uh, you know, where the cats, we know what, you know, what school they went to, what they majored in, what their, what their job was.

Speaker 2 You know, they all worked at the mall at one point.

Speaker 1 No, I think it's fascinating. It's important and it's important to build a world of whatever for whatever your world is that you live in.
You know, it's important to

Speaker 1 add characteristics to things and to make them bring them more alive. You know, I think that's really interesting.

Speaker 2 And personalize them because, you know, we do a calendar every year with their likes and dislikes and their fun facts.

Speaker 1 And is there ever any sex between the animals or do you ever engage? Do you ever see any stuff like that?

Speaker 2 I mean, all of our, all of our cats are spayed and neutered because it would be really irresponsible, especially once I got involved in rescue to

Speaker 2 they don't did they decapitate the wing or like did they no it's the testicles so oh they take the testicles yeah they take yeah the testicles it's a less invasive surgery than the spay the spay they actually have to cut you you know, like open.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's, but it's, it's so important. There's so many, you know, and we lost so much ground with COVID, you know, as far as the TNR programs.

Speaker 2 I, because I work, I have a lot of friends that are involved with TNR, which is really, you know,

Speaker 2 trap new to return. So, you know, if you, they want to have an interesting guest on, this guy, Sterling, the Trap King,

Speaker 2 he does

Speaker 2 TNR. And, I mean, they, they go out there, they set these traps because there's cats that are not going to be indoor cats.

Speaker 2 They've been living outside, they're street cats, but they're also reproducing.

Speaker 1 And then I'm going to have hundreds of cats now. They're mashing, dude.
If you hear the windows open, you can hear it.

Speaker 2 It's just on and on. And so something has to be done.
So guys like, you know, Sterling comes in, they come in with traps. They get permission from the complex or the owner.

Speaker 2 And they come in, they set the traps up. And they can't just leave.
They can't just set the trap and leave. They have to, because otherwise,

Speaker 2 when the cat gets trapped, you know, if the sun, you know, inclement weather

Speaker 2 they gotta mill around they gotta mill around and wait to see to catch this cat and then they have to get it over to the place that's gonna do the surgery

Speaker 2 at six in the morning I mean it's a huge dedication trap new to return I'm gonna look into that yeah yeah um have you ever had PETA come out and say anything about your show have you ever had any issues like that or no any we had one person come in California California one picketer yeah but it's that it's just you know and then they they left two hours before the show even started and anytime somebody has attacked me on social media we I have like a thousand people that come back with have you ever seen her show if you saw her show you would see that these cats are her family they're her that they're loved that they are not abused they're not being forced that they they literally are doing what they want to what they want to do they're they're free to leave I mean they are their carriers are open there's a whole theater for them to explore some of them do sometimes people will start laughing I'm like what's going on?

Speaker 2 They've gone up to the second level and they're doing stuff off with the props up there and just exploring. You know, I'm like, there's a show.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's a show going on. Guys, there's a show going on.
It's like, yeah, but there's a piano up here. You know, there's a piano up here.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, yeah, I saw the piano earlier, but we're doing a show right now.

Speaker 2 And, and I mean, I had, so I'll have these conversations with the cats. And most of the time, they don't, the audience doesn't hear.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 But every once in a while, they'll hear my part of it where I'll just have just, I'll just be be like i'm just you know like i am

Speaker 2 for this stops now because it was like albacore we have been practicing his opening thing he comes out he turns on a light that starts the show we rehearsed it we did it every day for weeks he knows what to do showtime comes along and he's like ah I just and I and so I'd have to turn it on for him and then the day came he comes out and he's just like ah and I'm like oh no you don't there's I've enough you know how to do this you have been doing this trick for weeks on end.

Speaker 2 You know what to do. And he's like, what are you doing? You know, of course, they don't hear that part.
You know, he's like, what are you doing? I go, he's like, you're embarrassing me.

Speaker 2 Oh, I'm embarrassing you. You're the one embarrassing me.
I'm the one looking like a crazy person talking to herself up here when you know how very well how to turn on this light.

Speaker 2 And he's like, okay, all right, fine. Just stop.
I'll do, I'll do it. So he went and he turned on the light.

Speaker 2 And after that, we never, we didn't have a problem. He consistently, you know, we had that little moment of like, okay, we're going to talk about this right now.

Speaker 2 You're going to, you, you know how to do this. You're going to do it.
I'm not going to keep doing it for you.

Speaker 2 And, you know, and every once in a while, he goes back into, he, he, now he has this whole weird little routine where he comes out, he does a little dolphin thing.

Speaker 2 Because when he comes up, you'll see he likes to dolphin. So he's like, oh, I need a little extra, you know, let me just dolphin a couple times.

Speaker 2 And he goes out and he almost hits it and he thinks he's gotten it. And I'm like, you didn't get it.
He's like, oh, I totally did. I go, no, you didn't.
It's like, it's still, it's not on.

Speaker 2 And he, and he's like, are you sure? And I'm like, yeah, I'm really sure.

Speaker 2 And he'll go back out there and, you know, and he'll finally, you know, he'll get it. But it has to be just right.
If it's too hard to turn on, he won't do it.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 And if it's too easy, he'll just breathe on it or he'll use his chin. And I'm like, oh, you cheater.
You cheater. You just, you know, but people still love it.
Like I said,

Speaker 2 it, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's somebody being, it's just seeing somebody being around cats is insane, you know, because there's a level of insanity to it for some people because they can't imagine it.

Speaker 1 But the fact that you love it, I think, is what makes it so important. And the fact also that you guys are

Speaker 1 helping getting cats in homes, you know, I didn't even believe in cats. I remember at first, somebody told me about a cat or something.
I was like, the fuck are you talking about when I was a kid?

Speaker 1 You know, I was like,

Speaker 1 yeah, I know, you know, what are you even fucking talking about?

Speaker 2 The cats are so amazing. I just, I mean, I

Speaker 2 love them so much. And it's so

Speaker 2 to,

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 I mean, because i'll have the worst show i'll feel like i just had the worst show ever and people come up and like this is the best show i've ever seen

Speaker 2 and the joy that people have you know they're like i haven't smiled i haven't you know i was going through cancer and i haven't smiled in three years and this is the first time i've smiled and all i get letters from you know like my you know divorced couples that's like i i brought my daughter to see your show and the very week you know we got your training kit the next week i can't went over to the house and i i paid for i paid my admission price and my daughter had set up a whole little cat circus in the basement.

Speaker 1 It's like I still hate Stanley, but I love those cats. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a joy. It's look,

Speaker 1 it's fascinating. I think it's fascinating.
I think it's fascinating to get to sit here with you, Samantha Martin, and to learn about Acrocats. You guys are going on tour, right?

Speaker 1 We'll put the links to where they can find you guys' tour. Where is it?

Speaker 2 Oh, the website.

Speaker 2 Rockatsrescue.org.

Speaker 1 Rockatsrescue.org. You can find the tour for Samantha and the amazing Acrocats.
And we're going to get a couple cats up here.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. We've got some cats and some kittens and foster kittens too.
The ones that were

Speaker 2 two that are possibly going to be joining the team. And right now we have 10 foster kittens, which is a lot.
Yes.

Speaker 2 The portal is open.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I mean, I have them all stationing. I have all these little like stools and things.
So they're all trained to go. And, you know, it's called, I call it the Lion Pyramid of Kittens.

Speaker 2 So, you know, I have, they'll all just come racing in and then assemble, you know, on their various platform. And then we'll have a sign that says, adopt us, that, that, you know, we put behind them.

Speaker 2 And, and it's, and it's just, it's just chaos initially. And then eventually they all find their place and they sit and they sit pretty and they do their thing.

Speaker 2 So it is, you know, like I said, and it's just, I, I, I love training and watching them learn, seeing that light come on. And, and just

Speaker 2 it, it, it's such a, it's a completely different cat than the cat that's never paid attention to or just, you know, bowl of food is left out 24-7.

Speaker 2 And, you know, when cats are capable of so much more, I just, you know, just spend 10 minutes a day with your cat. It's all it takes.

Speaker 2 You know, this is your family member. And 10 minutes a day isn't too much to ask.
Just to, you know, and really, that's fair.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's definitely fair. Some people think cats are, they don't know.
They don't know what they are, even if they have them.

Speaker 1 But you're saying that there's a lot more to cats that people aren't seeing and investigating, and that they could spend a little bit more time and do that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. And then less of them be left behind when, you know, and well, I got to move and the places and all that.

Speaker 1 Well, you find a place to go. Sometimes cats will stay, though, too.
Cats will, I'm not moving and they'll stay. So sometimes people do leave their cats.
Sometimes cats leave the people too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, that is, you know, but if a person developed that relationship, then that cat is going to want to go wherever you go. Like that, like my is that true? Yeah, oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2 If you and If you just invest a little bit of time in your cat, then they're definitely going to want to stay with you.

Speaker 2 I mean, they, you know, when, you know, when tour time comes around, and I mean, they're definitely, I don't want to be left behind. I don't want to be left behind.

Speaker 2 Something's happening, something's happening. And they really, I mean, they love it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they want to go.

Speaker 2 They love the attention. They love, you know, they, I mean, they had the back third of the buses all decked out for the cats.

Speaker 1 So they have the life.

Speaker 1 We'll have to add in some pictures. Yeah.
I mean, some cats are performers. Some cats are

Speaker 1 who knows, you know?

Speaker 1 I think there's a lot to know about cats, and I don't know a lot of it, but I'm grateful to just sit here and hear about it today and to know what's going on, that there's cats out there.

Speaker 1 There's something about knowing there's cats out there traveling the globe, performing at night that kind of keeps me going. Let's get a couple cats up here and see.
Let's see what we can see. So

Speaker 2 there's a lot of work

Speaker 2 that goes into

Speaker 2 training an animal.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's fascinating.

Speaker 2 Especially cats, because you have to acclimate them to so many different things.

Speaker 1 Yeah, most people think a cat is just crazy.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 it can be more than that. What?

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Dude, that's great.

Speaker 1 Oh my god.

Speaker 1 You could do it.

Speaker 2 He's like the bell. How about the bell?

Speaker 2 You could do it, tuna.

Speaker 2 Tuna.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. That's sexy.

Speaker 1 All right. All right.

Speaker 2 Try the small one. It's really.

Speaker 2 Tuna. Tuna.

Speaker 1 Whoa.

Speaker 1 Gosh. She's bad.

Speaker 2 And then he girlly gets a good hype on this one. All right.
Tuna. Huh? Huh?

Speaker 1 There you go.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's a party cat. Wow.

Speaker 1 It's clean. That cat's clean, huh?

Speaker 1 What do y'all clean it with?

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 Oh, that one. Oh.

Speaker 1 Good job, Tuna. It could work at AutoZone, dude.
That's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, we did a car commercial really early on.

Speaker 2 It was hysterical with the cats.

Speaker 2 Tuna, tuna, tuna. He's like, you were late on that treat.
I'm out of here.

Speaker 2 We can bring out the kittens.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the chickens here.

Speaker 1 Wow, this is neat. I didn't know that

Speaker 1 an animal could do something like that.

Speaker 2 Do you want

Speaker 1 Twigs to jump over the hill? Oh, she could be a night manager at a motel. Twigs, possible future acroc.

Speaker 1 Ready?

Speaker 2 Oh, well, you cheated. You gotta clear it.
You gotta clear it.

Speaker 2 It was nice for you not to beat up a kitten.

Speaker 2 Alright, let's try it again. Get a running start.
Get a running start.

Speaker 2 Get a run, start. Get a ready start.

Speaker 2 You're kind of cheating there.

Speaker 2 So the goal is for that.

Speaker 2 We would click once he clears it without stepping on it.

Speaker 1 Oh, I see. So he wants to...

Speaker 2 The click reinforces the exact movement that you want.

Speaker 1 So he's cheating or he's just taking it easy.

Speaker 2 He, well, he doesn't, he hasn't quite gotten it yet. He's still in the training.
Like, I just started working on this two days ago.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Crusher.

Speaker 2 I'll have to send the clip of the skateboarding that we've been working on because it was

Speaker 2 one day of training with the skateboard.

Speaker 1 Yeah, these cats are really chilling out here now.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Damn, it's like a dang strip club in here.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Gremlin.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 There we go.

Speaker 1 This is the most cats we've ever had at one time.

Speaker 1 Anywhere.

Speaker 1 That's the best.

Speaker 2 So that's Samantha. He's trying to take us off.

Speaker 1 That's good.

Speaker 1 Wow, they're beautiful.

Speaker 1 They're all available for adoption.

Speaker 2 Well, except we are

Speaker 2 fresh and twigs are kind of on the

Speaker 1 they may be they may be hired if they don't go on tour they're available for adoption.

Speaker 2 Well, they'll go be on tour regardless. So when we go out on tour, we bring them all out.
And you know, we'll kind of, it'll be kind of like a tet like a test time to see who's who loves it. Like

Speaker 2 some some cats are just born to be on stage. Like

Speaker 2 this is we want I want this job. I want to do this.
Other cats are like, I don't want this job. So they I want to be a house pet, but I'll still do some tricks.

Speaker 2 So those are the ones that we adopt out. And just because we had to retire two of our cats recently

Speaker 2 is why we're, you know, hiring.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the stage isn't for everybody.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's definitely not for everyone.

Speaker 1 But it's for the acrocats, though.

Speaker 2 It is for the acrocats.

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 2 you start out with like something, you know, simple. This is like, oh, this is easy.
We hear the click, we get this treat, and they're letting you sit pretty.

Speaker 1 Oh, I'm just glad you're not giving them

Speaker 1 opioids or anything like that.

Speaker 2 Because I know people ask, do you drug your cats or you declaw your cats? I'm like, they're acrocats.

Speaker 1 They need to be able to find them. Well, the Japanese are drugging those dogs that are on Instagram, but that's a different conversation.

Speaker 1 The Acrocats, Samantha Martin, thank you so much for spending time with me and just for letting me learn about these cats. And yeah, they really are beautiful today.

Speaker 1 And I look forward to seeing a show sometime.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we're trying to book in Nashville if we can get the theater to call us us back.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah, we'll see if we can help. Um,

Speaker 1 but this is really awesome, and I appreciate you guys coming and spending time with us today. Yeah, thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 Now, I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be

Speaker 1 cornerstone.

Speaker 1 Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind. I found I can feel it

Speaker 1 in my bones.

Speaker 1 But it's gonna take

Speaker 1 a little