E523 Georges St-Pierre

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Rated M for Mature. Sitting down today to talk about dinosaurs and fears with one of the greatest mixed martial artist of our time, of any time.
He won UFC belts in two different weight classes, and you can't even talk about the sport without mentioning him. I'm really honored to be in his presence today, and I mean that.
Today's guest is Mr. George St.
Pierre. Shine that light on me

I'll sit and tell you my stories Shine on me And I will find a song I'll be singing just before This is your country, man.

Yes, sir.

And so it's,

yeah, because it's French-Canadian,

so which one is the real one?

Or which, you know what I'm saying?

Like, who's really the boss or whatever?

Well, there's no really,

I mean, who's the boss? I don't know if there's really a boss. Like if you had to pick one, do you get to pick one or every day it's the same? Yeah.
You mean the boss? Talk about the leader. Yeah.
Most people will tend to say, oh, it's the, you know, the political leader,

the-

Of Canada or of France?

The prime minister or the president.

But I'm, I think, I mean,

you can call me conspiracy,

conspiracy is thinking that,

but I don't think he's the one

that really control everything.

I think there's people behind that.

Maybe, I mean, that's what I believe.

I could be wrong, but that's what I think. That's what I think too.
Yeah, I think that the president is the face. It's a face, it's the puppet.
But like our prime minister is the face, but I think there's people behind that. There's certain things that he cannot do.
That's what I believe. Did you always believe that you think, or that you think that's grown over the years kinda? It's a good question.
I think it grown over the years. Yeah, same.
Especially because there's a lot of sometimes, sometimes there's a lot of conspiracy that turns out to be true. Yeah.
And there's so much stuff on internet nowadays that you can try to search anything and they will give you something to read about. Yeah.
A certain subject, even if it's completely preposterous. So it's hard to know what is real and what is not, but maybe that's the reason why, because of that, it makes me realize that, oh, what I'm seeing is maybe not really what it is.
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Yeah, I think it's fascinating fascinating because yeah say if like a lot of media was like kind of all controlled right then of course they're gonna not want you to know something yeah and eventually people are gonna kind of figure those things out people figure things out i think it's it's always about money and power i know people that has money and power what they want is they want more money and more power. I tend to believe that most of people are mostly in the middle.
And like, if you look at politics, you have the extreme right, extreme left. But most people are, I think, mostly in the middle, you know, that they're not to one side or the other.
And then the way it's portrayed is that you have to pick one side or the other side. And you're like, shit, I don't know what to do.
You know what I mean? Because I'm, you know, I'm stuck in the middle. Yeah.
I think stuck in the middle is probably the best spot, you know? And I think most people are probably pretty logical, you would think. But then maybe sometimes I start to wonder, do I give people too much credit? You know, like, are a lot of people just batshit crazy, you know?

And then I wonder sometimes, am I just batshit crazy, you know?

Yeah, it's true.

We have to look at ourselves in the mirror sometimes.

It's hard.

Yeah, but I wonder sometimes, like, yeah, I'm amazed, I guess,

that power and money drive so many people.

Like, I get it being like an influence, you know? But i think there's a part of me i guess i'm shocked that it has that much control what do you think um i mean you you're kind of one-on-one uh george you've had such a i mean you got to almost have kind of a perfect career in a lot of ways you. I made tons of mistakes looking at it

and I wish I could do better

because I'm very critics about myself,

but yeah, I'm happy with what I have accomplished, yeah.

And do you think, was it power, success driving you?

Like what was kind of your driving force do you feel like?

I'll be honest with you, 100%.

I never liked to fight. I love the sport.
I love the science of it. I like the camaraderie that I have with my friend, before like a training camp, it's like you're going to war.
I despise fight day. It's unbearable for me.
I'm extremely uncomfortable and not knowing if I will be hurt, humiliated or winning the ultimate prize is unbearable for me. It's very hard to deal with, but it's the price that you have to pay if you want to achieve freedom.
Like for me, I first started doing it because I had a certain natural talent, I would say. If I would be born with an anticap, I would probably not be able to do what I did.
So I was a gifted athlete and I also worked really hard, but I also I consider myself extremely lucky. The stars were all aligned because there was guys that I've met through my journey that were probably more talented than I was.
There's guys that I met that probably worked harder than I did. But I think what made the difference is the fact that I met the right people at the right time.
I had the, sometime life gave me certain opportunity that I did not shy away. I was always willing to get out of my comfort zone in order to improve, which is not the case for a lot of athletes.
And not only athletes, like entrepreneurs. Humans, yeah.
Humans, for a human, for all of us, it's hard to get out of our comfort zone, but sometimes it's necessary. It's a necessary evil in order to improve.
Yeah. Yeah, well, I think like what you said, cause you can control how much you, how hard you work.
You can control. Those are a lot of control factors.
Yes. But that is, that's a risk.
When you get out there and you get on a fight day. Yeah.
Some of it's out of your control. I remember that.
Did it feel like that? Is that what it felt like kind of? It's always a question of risk and reward, you know, it's calculated risk. Um, I remember if, if I go back, uh, more than like almost 30 years ago, uh, I couldn't really speak English very well.
I learned it at school, but I grew up in a French environment. So my English was really bad.
It's hard. Yeah.
And the first time I, I, I remember I was already a black belt in karate and I wanted to go to the Gracie Academy in New York because that's where the best jujitsu athlete were, were training at the time. So I knew that I needed to go there in order to train with the best, to learn from the best.
So I'm about, at the time, I'm about like 16, 17 years old. And, uh, I'm planning to go there with two of my friend, two of professional that are professional athletes at the time.
And, uh, one of them, only one of them speak perfect English. So he's, he's, yeah.
And it was not like it is today. There were, there were not like ways.
So we had to go on MapQuest and it was a pain in the butt to find your way. So I'm driving.
I got a shitty Ford Tempo with a hole in, I remember where I used to put the brake pedal. So people used to make fun of me.
It was like the Flintstone, you know? I could almost put my foot on the floor, you know? So the plan was to go in New York, to go there and we share the hotel together. So we save money and we share with the guys and everything.
But the day before the trip, one of them called me and he's the one, it's the one that speak English. He's like, hey, George, I cannot make it.
I'm like, are you kidding me? And I'm talking to the other one who's supposed to come with me. He's like, oh, if he's not going, I'm not going either.
I'm like, man. But you know what? I said to myself, I said, F it.
I'm going by myself and that's it. So I went there and I remember, man, I got my ass whooped by a guy who weighs maybe 30 pounds lighter than me.
Wow. I got tapped out, like in Jitsu, when you're stuck in an arm bar or choke, you have to tap.
Otherwise your arm break or you get choked out. So, and I remember at the time I was like, man, I was getting mold.
I was a black belt in karate, I was a good striker, but in grappling, I didn't have a lot of of knowledge and i knew i needed to learn it in order to become a mixed martial art fighter but man i got beat up so bad and i and i remember driving back i was i was that close to to to give up and i i told myself say you know what i need to go back out there and learn and every time i was going back it was tough for me because guys, a lot of them were trying to bully me. A few of them were very nice to me, but it was a constant grind.
And I remember the two guys that were supposed to come with me, they asked me, hey, how was it? I'm like, man, I got my ass kicked so bad. Man, they never came back with me.
They were like, they wanted to stay in their comfort zone. So that's the difference.
You know, if you want to succeed sometime, it's a necessary evil. You're gonna go through pain.
You're gonna, might be humiliated. You're gonna fail, but then I have to go through that man in order to improve, you know? And that's what I was ready to do, which is probably the case of other guys.
So that the reason why I was successful is not because I think I was more gifted or, you know. It's just because I was ready to do that sacrifice.
What do you think kind of made you in that space to take that sacrifice? Because I guess it's like, yeah, I mean, well, giving up is easy. Yeah.
I think saying something is better, saying something's too hard, it's kind of easy, I think unless you're different, I think some people look at that as a challenge and some people look at it as just a reality. Yeah, I think if you want to be the best at something, I'm not talking about being good.
I'm talking about you want to be the best at something. And in every field, I think you need to be a little bit obsessed.
I was never diagnosed, I never saw a psychologist for it, but I think I'm obsessive compulsive. And I think- Did you notice it when you were young? Like what kind of things did you see that you would do? Well, one thing I would do that completely crazy uh uh it's very stupid but i i used to do like when i when i walk on the sidewalk for example i remember in new york going to train i walk on the sidewalk and there is line on the sidewalk and i noticed that i step over one line with my right foot, but I have to step over with the left

to make an equal number.

And sometimes these things are so stupid,

but it drives you nuts.

When I drill techniques in jujitsu,

I have to do this in, or wrestling or any combat sport,

I have to do the same amount on each side.

Even though in a fight,

I will most likely do one side, my best side, but I have to do the other side. And I think these things as crazy as it sounds are probably some of the things that made me perform well, you know? Right.
Cause you need things to be even, you need things to be calculated maybe, or even the fact that you're even calculating things is kind of, it sounds crazy. It sounds obsessive, but it also is kind of magnificent in a way because to be great at something, you're going to have to be someone who's calculating things even when you're not, even in your subconscious.
Also, I think it's good for an athlete for performance, but you need to learn how to let go. You need to learn to punch, punch in and punch out.

And sometimes it's hard.

I see in the news, sometimes some fighters,

they can't do it.

You know, they go crazy.

They keep going.

Yeah.

Like Tony Ferguson, he keeps going.

Do you think it's a tough space that he's in?

Like, because it's weird.

People love watching him fight, right?

And it feels like he loves like giving himself

to the people.

He like, it almost like he shows like giving himself to the people he like

it almost like he shows up just because he knows we're gonna love him so much yeah but you start to think that it's painful for him i mean he's had a tough run recently yeah i i love to to to see him fight it's uh it's just unfortunate because the tony ferguson that you see nowadays is it's not the Tony Ferguson that he was when he was in his prime.

And it depends what he's trying to accomplish. Right.
I prioritize my health first, and that's my priority. But some guys, they have a kick of it.
They don't care. They prioritize having, I don't know, some of them, they love to fight.
For them, it's an adrenaline. They love it.
I never liked it. I mean, I did it because I wanted to have the freedom, you know, the life that I have.
So I used that to propel myself where I wanted to be in life. But some guys, they just love to fight.
And it's funny because when I was young, I was looking around and I never felt I was at the right place. I remember I seek the help of sport psychologists and a lot of them, they told me, you know, like they were trying to brainwash me.
They were like, oh, George, stop saying you're afraid. You're not afraid.
You're excited. I'm like, bro, I'm excited if I, I don't know, if I say a beautiful woman or, you know, like, or you know what I mean? I'm not excited to go fight in a cage.
You know what I mean? So I'm afraid. Then they realized that you should not be afraid.
I should not be afraid to admit that I'm afraid. You know, there's no courage without fear.
And when I made peace with it, I knew it was a normal thing and I learned how to control it. But that's why there's some guys, I think they fake it so hard and they don't make peace with it.
And when the light is on and it's time to perform, they crumble. You see that very often in combat sport.
Guys that are very good in the gym, but then when it's time to go, they don't perform as well. You're like, what's going on? You know? That's why, because they don't know how to deal with, they don't know how to domesticate their fear.
They don't know how to, they don't know how to manage their fear. They don't know how to manage it.
They don't know how to control their stress. I remember, I think it's Kosomoto, Mike Tyson coach, he says, fear is like fire.
It can help you cook your food, but it can also burn you if you don't know how to control it. You know, and one of my psychologists used to, the sports psychologist used to say to me, he's like, you have butterflies, you have to make them fly in formation.
That's one thing he used to tell me all the time. I'm like, that was a good analogy.

That's crazy, man.

And I'm sure for you, it's the same thing.

I mean, when you do a show, I mean, I don't know.

Are you afraid to mess up and being humiliated?

Did it ever happen to you that-

Oh, for sure.

Like you screwed up.

You're like, shit, this thing doesn't work the way I want.

And I mean, I'm sure it happened. Like it happened to me.
I get hit or, you know what I mean? I lose a fight. Yeah.
It wasn't my plan and my strat. Yeah.
I didn't, I ran out of bullets. I ran out of like moves.
I tried some jokes. It didn't work.
Oh, the beginning, you almost go out there cause you, you just want, I think, you know, it's going to fucking hurt, you know? And you just want to, I think a lot of comics kind of hate themselves a little bit to be honest and so they go out there because they know the feeling that the embarrassment and pain they're going to feel finally it'll match how they feel on the inside so there's a little weirdness in that that like some things are going to feel a little even in a way um and also a lot of comedians hate themselves so much that the people could never hate them as much as they fucking hate themselves. Or they've talked so badly about themselves like in their own head, you know? You mean you need to be willing to make fun of yourself if you wanna do that, right? Yeah, I think that helps because then it's certainly at that point, it's like you're using all the tools.
You already- You make fun of others, but you make fun of, you need to be ready to make fun of yourself as well, right? Yeah. And in your head, like I think a lot of comedians are like, you know, they have a lot of fear.
They have a lot of inferiority. And so when they're growing up, they probably talk badly to themselves in their head.
And so then when they're able to joke about themselves, it's almost a way of releasing some of that. It's like they're making fun of themselves, but it's in a way that is bringing joy to people.
So it almost kind of like alleviates some of that, if that makes any sense. Over the year, that feeling of- It goes away.
It goes away for you, yeah? Yeah. It goes away because you- It didn't go away from me.
Really? Yeah, it got worse because every fight is bigger than that. But just the fight, so the fight itself, so the training and all of that, you're- No, training makes me nervous.
No, I'm nervous before training because when you train for a fight, you want to perform. When you're in between fight, off season, now you want to have fun.
That's when training is fun. But when you're training for a fight, it's about performance.
It's not that fun. It's not fun.
Winning is fun, but you know, like- Like the fight day would be tough? I'm sorry? The fight day would be the toughest? It's terrible. Well, to give you an example, fight day, it's every fight day is the worst day of my life.
You wake up after a shitty night of sleep.

And when you wake up, you're like,

because you don't sleep well because you make,

so I make so much scenario in my mind.

If you do this, I'm gonna do this

and try to cover every possible scenario that can happen.

And sometimes you close your eyes,

you try to see, you try to be positive,

but sometimes you don't see yourself winning. Sometimes there's certain imagery that pops up in your head that you see yourself losing.
But I develop a trick. I'm a firm believer of the power of thinking, you know, of the power of the mind.
Visualization? Yes. So when you have a negative imagery that pops up in your head

it's a sign of intelligence you know it's it's normal it will happen because you're smart you can you can uh you can foresee certain bad outcome so you need to be prepared so so it forces you to you don't want to finish your visualization on a negative note because it would leave a scar up here. So I always force myself when I see myself getting dropped by a punch, then I, I don't let go.
I just force myself. Okay.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna scramble back up and get back in control of the fight. And then I can go on with my life, do whatever I need, I need to do.
So I think if you only finish on the negative, it could leave a scar. That's one of the things that over the year I tried to do and it helped me a lot.
It's powerful. It reminds me of the fight, the first Sarah fight, I think, you know, and I know you didn't get the outcome that you wanted, but you stayed alive.
I mean, you, you know, that was a... Yeah, I got hit so many times.
I was like, geez, I felt like we were getting hit at home, I remember. And Matsara really surprised me because going into that fight was my first title defense.
Matsara was known for his grappling prowess. You know, he was a very, one of the most decorated jujitsu athlete at the time.
And I was more worried about his ground game than his standup, but he worked a lot on his standup game and he caught me with a punch that I never saw coming on behind the hair. And when he caught me, I remember I got emotional because I wanted to give it back to him right away.
You know, like this was not supposed to happen. The odds were favoring me, like something like 10 to one or something crazy.
So I wanted to give it back to him right away. And like an idiot, I fall into a slugfest.
And when you're stunned, you're not accurate because you're dizzy. He was accurate and he hits very hard.
So I got like a, I don't, I can't remember how many punches I got hit with. You stayed alive though.
But you know what I did? So because I didn't know where I was, I was so dizzy. I tapped out and I got a lot of critics because, oh, he's a quitter.
He tapped out on strike and everything. And it affected me at the time because I was like, man, you know, like maybe I'm not as good as I think.
And a lot of people were like, oh, he's maybe not as good as people think. And I needed to build myself mentally from that.
And it was very, very hard because I lost the confidence. And confidence for a fighter is the most important thing because you can have all the skills in the world, but if you don't have the confidence, if I can make an analogy, it's like someone who has a lot of money in his bank account, but no way of accessing it.
So I needed to build myself back up and it was a tough time, I remember. It's funny you see it that way because I saw it as, wow, I cannot believe how, I think for me, it goes back to what you were saying that like to envision, like if you visualize yourself getting hit to then finish on a visualization of yourself, you know, returning back to form and like still being in the bout.
Because that's what it seemed like to me. I mean, I know he got the victory on that one, but.
I tapped out on strike and I'm not ashamed to say it. A lot of guys that will say because there's this thing in our sport, oh, he tapped out strike you quit but man it's a sport we're not in a war and i rather save myself for another day all right well you always seem like that guy you always seem like this you're always a perfect strategist i'm never gonna give up until it's finished but that fight was finished i was gone it was a matter of time that i was to fall unconscious.
So I decided to tap and to save some of my brain cells and come back another day. And you did.
And I, yeah. And I think there's no shame about it.
When that happened at the time, I was ashamed a little bit and I didn't want to talk about it, but you know, I'm glad I did it. I'm glad I did it.
Yeah. Well, I think it's easier probably to look in back in the past and see the long you know to see the whole like all the work you know yeah to see it as a whole as like a whole piece there um yeah what was what was kind of one of the toughest times you felt like in your career was that probably it you think because you had just gotten the title it's your first title defense it defense.
That was bad mentally. The first loss before that, I lost to Matt Hughes.
Matt Hughes, yeah. It was more of a learning experience.
This was different because it really brought my confidence down. And I remember at the time I had a sports psychologist.
He's awesome. I shout out to Brian Kane.
Brian or Ryan? Brian Kane. He was amazing.
And he's deceased? No, no, no, no, no, no. He's still around.
He works with pro athletes. And he says to me, because after the fight, immediately the only thing I was thinking about is to get back out there and get my, get my, my revenge, you know, because I was not proud of my performance.
I was like, man, I'm better than this. I'm better than this guy.
I want to, I want to go back out there and show the world. And, you know, my ego wanted to show the world that I am better in this.
But the, the fight that I had was not against Sarah.

My other fight, I needed to build,

like to have a few more wins

before I had to return for a title shot.

So I was not focusing on the right thing.

I was focusing on Matt Sarah

instead of focusing on my next opponent.

And that could have been very bad.

So what my sport psychologist did to me,

he said, George, you're carrying a lot of brick. And I didn't know what it mean at the time.
So he made me carry a brick and he made me write the name of Sarah with clay on it. And he made me carry that brick in my training bag.
And every day I was going to train with that fricking brick. And in TriStar, you have to go up the stairs.
And it's not a pleasant walk to go to the gym it's it's kind of a training of itself of itself and at one point like after a week i call him like hey can i get rid of that brick he's like no you keep it you keep it i'm like man this guy is completely insane you know like he's he was you know i thought that he was crazy he probably needed a psychologist himself so i kept carrying carrying the brick carrying and right the carrying. And right like the week before my fight with, I think it was with Josh Koscheck, that I was trying to get back to a title shot.
I was like, man, I can't deal with this shit anymore. Can I throw that brick out? He's like, okay, I'm coming, wait.
So I went to where the Saint Laurent River is. I threw it, I grab it and I threw it in the water.
And I know it sounds cool to say, but it was something physical that I did that had a profound change on my mental. It kind of free me from that, that needs to prove to the world that I want to beat him again, you know? So I was able to focus on the immediate task ahead.
Right. Yeah.
Because sometimes that desire, I just, it's a blind desire almost like I need to prove and it's not, it's powerful, but it's not effective because it's not calculated. Yeah.
You know, and it can be even more dangerous sometimes than anything. Yeah.
So, so, so I was not, I was going in a dangerous path because I was not focusing on the, on the most important thing that was my, the, the, the fight, like I was focusing on the other fight be after, but yeah, I was about to, to, to screw it up bad. I know whenever you retired, Hendrick, what was your, oh no, the last fight was Bisping.
Bisping was my last fight. That was awesome, dude.
Hendricks is after I took a break after Hendricks, yeah. First of all, I'd like to say thank you to Dan Morgan and everyone over at Morgan & Morgan.
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For more information, go to forthepeople.com slash this past weekend or dial pound law, pound 529 from your cell phone. That's forthepeople.com slash this past weekend or dial pound law, pound 529 from your cell this is a paid advertisement um yeah whenever you took a break after hendrick you talked about like you were going through a tough time or something what was that about it was was it stuff you couldn't talk about before yeah it was i had a lot of issue a lot of family issue and problem and and the thing is when you're, I was a very active fighter and-

When you say active, what do you mean?

Fighting often?

Yeah, fighting often.

And also you have to consider that you do a lot of promotion,

tours and stuff.

It takes a lot out of you.

And also the stress on always,

you always have someone that is threatening you.

Because when you're the contender, you don't have as much stress because you have one target. You want to be champion.
You want to go there. That's the benchmark, you know? That's the best, isn't it? Yes.
It's hard to become champion, but it's even harder to stay champion. There's not a lot of guys that stay champion for a long time.
It's very hard. Because when you're champion, you're the target.
When you're the contender, you have, you have, you know, one guy is starting, nobody really targets you, but if you get to the title shot is you have only one guy that targets you. When you're the champion, everyone targets you.
So you're the target and you don't have much time to prepare for your opponent.

And your opponent has been looking at you for years

because he's climbing the rank and he's studying you,

he's trying to find a sheik in your armor.

And every time they interview any of those guys,

they all call your name because you're the guy.

Of course.

So that's why it is much different.

It's much more difficult to stay champion

than becoming champion.

And when you're a champion, it's hard.

is So that's why it is much different. It's much more difficult to stay champion than becoming champion.
And when you're a champion, it's hard because your life changed. You have more responsibility and more, there's a lot more requests and stuff.
And that's what happened to me at the time. I was doing it for so long and I had so much pressure for so long.

And I remember at the time I was, I didn't want,

I was shy to talk about it because I was like,

if I talk about it before the fight

and I was fighting against,

they used to have big problem

with performance enhancing drug in mixed martial art.

It was a big, big problem.

Oh, they got big problems with those at a damn 7-Eleven, dude. Those people are shooting up everywhere now.
I never wanted to accuse one individual, but I wanted to change the system. And the UFC at the time didn't really add my back, didn't really help me on that.
And I was fighting against that behind closed door. And it was- Because you were saying some of these guys could be using, we have to test stronger.
Oh, a hundred percent. That's why I did the test when I fought Hendrix.
When I fought also BJ Penn, we did the test because I wanted to implement this. It's crazy because you play basketball, you play soccer, play football, but you don't play fighting.
You can lose your brain cells out there. It's different.
And it makes some people like, yeah, but it doesn't make that's my bullshit. It makes you such a huge, it's a tons of difference, man.
I've trained with guys that are openly, like they're saying to me, like when they are on cycle, it's not even the same person. Yeah, guys, it changes you, not only stamina recovery but also your your your brain your your reaction time you're more creative there's things that you would do when you're on it that that you would not maybe do when you're not you know so so oh you'll start fucking the air when you're on you're on test 700 or whatever dude i saw a guy one time just yeah he just he had so so, you know, he just, he turned into an animal.

Yeah,

100%,

100%.

So,

so in fighting.

So that's a risk then

because you're at the top,

obviously everybody's focused on you

and if you don't know

if some of the,

if you're staying clean

and you don't know

if some of the,

some of the testing

is up to your,

what you believe is a fair code.

Yeah.

Then fuck,

that would be really scary.

Well, the martial art, I think that one of the thing in martial art is the respect and being just, being fair. And I mean, these are the traditional value of martial art.
And I always try to carry that with me. And I felt like I was in some way, you know, not betrayed, but I felt a little bit let go.
And I was just fed up. I was just, I just needed to take a time off.
You know, I was, that's why I left for more than four years, you know, and I'm, I'm glad I did it because maybe I should have done it. Maybe a fight, one, one fight before, you know, it would, you can burn out, man.
Yeah. It's so much, people don't, I don't think realize that I can't even imagine the responsibilities.
And then, yeah, especially while the sport is still building so much at that time, like that was a huge building period for UFC. And so like, um, to have some, just to have like interview requests, I want you to be here and you want to do all the things you can do, you know, cause you feel like you're physically capable, but yeah, part of you starts to get burned down.
It's like a, I don't know. It's almost like when you light a candle and there's nothing left in it.
Yeah. That's how I feel sometimes.
I remember you, you just finish a fight and immediately after there's another guy called you calling you out and being myself, I'm, I'm sort of a obsessive compulsive guy. So as soon as another guy calling me out, I'm starting to make scenario in my mind.
I'm like, okay, I'm like, it drive you nuts. It drive you.
And when you're the contender, you're on your way up. You don't have that problem.
Yeah. You know, yeah, of course, when maybe you get to the top five, you know, but before that, nobody noticed you.
Nobody care about you. You care about them, but they don't care about you.
It's so funny. So when you're on top, now you're the target.
Everybody talks shit about you. They, they, they disrespect you.
And if you want, you want it or not, it touches you, you know, because you say, oh, you don't bother watching these things, but you know, it, it touches you and, and you see sometimes things get bad. You see that people, they, they insult each other other.
And people always ask me sometimes, do you think they went too far? I mean, this is the fight game, man. You can die out there or you can have certain damage that will make you die in the near future.
Oh yeah, be wheelchairs or whatever, anything. The art of war, man.
They're going to try everything to try to make you lose your mind. And we saw many, many fights that guys lose their mind.
And that's one of the reasons why, like everybody knows Conor McGregor. Yeah.
His first title fight against Jose Aldo, he knocked him out in like something like seven seconds. He pissed off Jose Aldo so much.
Jose Aldo lost his mind. He went out of his game plan and tried to rush to him, to give it to him.
Conor McGregory is an incredible counter puncher. He just slipped.
Boom. That was it.
That was a, I mean, it was very smart from his part to he taunt Jose Aldo. It was emotional.
It was, I believe it was prepared. I believe he put Jose Aldo exactly where he wanted to be.
He set it up by all the interview, all the things he said, all the things he done. Right, he started the fight months before in a way.
Yeah, so when you're in that fight game, another thing that people don't talk about, you never want to show your private life. Right.
Because people will use that against you. Talk about people.
Me, I can put a shield. If you can insult me, you can say whatever you want.
I'm very good at putting a shield and it's not going to bother me. But talk about someone I love, someone I care about, now it's going to get me, you know? Yeah.
So, and we saw that another time with Conor and Khabib Nurmagomedov, the famous fight. Oh, yeah, that was crazy.
Yes. So that's the reason why it went crazy after because they crossed the line.
But it's the fight game. That's a fight game.
I don't think it's right, but a lot of guys will do that to make you the real. Do you respect guys just as much to do that? I mean, it's just, it's another facet to war in a way, right? It's the art of war, man.
It's combat sport, man. It's kill or be killed, man.
They're going to do it. You think it's evolved more as since like in the past, like 15 years, have you noticed it evolved more over time? Like that it's more of a strategy now? Or do you think more people see it coming now? Like, what do you think the evolution of that's been of trash talking? It's a good question.
I think what changes is the fact that now we have social media and we're in touch with the world. I can be at home in Montreal and insulting you when you're in Tennessee in two seconds and you will notice it in real time.
Boom. before that that was not really the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the

the in Montreal and insulting you when you're in Tennessee in two seconds and you will notice it in real time. Boom.
Before that, that was not really the case. We didn't have that power, you know? Now you can say something, the whole world sees it.
And oh, did you heard what he said? Oh, blah, blah, blah. So that's, I think what makes the difference, you know? It's different now.
Yes. Do you feel like the testing

has gotten better

over time in the sport?

Well, now I think

it got a little bit worse

because...

One company quit, right?

Or one company got laid off.

USAIDA.

Right.

And I interrupted you.

I interrupted you.

Sorry, George.

No, no, no, no.

Please, it's true.

What happened is

they didn't have any testing first.

Then they hired, I think, USAIDA. So it got much better.
But they test beef and stuff, don't they? Is it the same group? They, they, actually, USADA, I don't think. Oh my God.
Bro, if the same person testing my pork chops is testing Mike Perry, then I think we got to fucking figure something out. I mean, I think both of them are clean, but I'm just saying.
But you saw when USAIDA just arrived on the scene, a lot of the champion have failed, you know, and they lost a lot of money. But I give them props because they took the lead.
They had to do it. They had to make sure the score was clean.
Yeah, and I'm happy to do it. And that's one of the reasons I came back and I fought Bisping because if they would not have made drug tests, I would never have come back.
Wow. I was like, no way.
I'm like, I don't like that. But now I think- Because it was too, it just wasn't fair.
It just wasn't, it's not fair. It was insane.
It was like too much. Not sanctioned.
I'm never going to say, hey, this guy, this guy. But when you're in the industry, you know who's who, you know who do what.
It's a small world. We all know.
Oh, it's like when you're in ninth grade and some kid shows up like that with pimples everywhere. You know what's going on.
You know what Ricky's been doing. You know what I'm saying? You just know.
Yeah. But sometimes it's not even, you cannot even notice it physically.
Because certain drugs, like for example, like EPO will give you a crazy stamina, but might not really changes you physically. There is stuff that people talks, you know who's who.
And I mean, it was just at the time it was insane. And I'm glad that UFC did this.
I didn't want to bring UFC down. That was not my intent when I did this.
I wanted to elevate the sport and I'm glad they did it. I think it elevates the sport.
And now, yeah, they're not with USADA anymore, but I think they hire another organization to do the tests. But I do believe that if you want to avoid corruption, it needs to be a separated entity that do the test than the the organization itself and is that what they have now right now it's i am not sure but if the organization has power in order like in in in the testing it's corrupted yeah it cannot be corrupted it needs to be a different entity where the the organization does not have any power.

Right.

Right.

Because they can't be able to control and say,

hey, let's make this okay.

And this is not okay.

Imagine you have a big fight coming up and the two,

the two guys that outlined the cards,

like one of them test positive.

We just screwed up the card,

you know,

and they lose a lot of money.

So they have a,

they have an interest in this.

Yeah.

This says drug free sport international will be in charge of the collection

process under the new program that begins in January when UFC's deal with USADA ends. This was last year.
Former FBI Special Agent George Pirro, best known for interrogating former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, will be in charge of the new program. Huh.
That's interesting. You identify people and entities in the space that can make something that is already working well, and you make them better.
UFC Vice President Jeff Nowitzki said, you learn that USADA is not the only player in the space and that a combination of other entities and individuals can actually make your program stronger and better. And that's exactly what's happening right now with our program.
It's unfortunate. I believe they want clean guys fighting in there.
No doubt. I believe they want money.
I think that's what they believe. I think that their number one interest is the money, which is normal.
They run a business. They're a business.
And after, yeah, the security of the factor. But it's not to bash them.
And I think it's every company want to make money. That's the goal.
Right. Like that's the number one priority.
And after, if we can make it fair and clean, okay, but money, I think, is always the number one. I think.
Well, that's a good point. That's business.
And you know what? Business. That's business.
Sometimes business inherently has some evil edges to it. Or not evil, but it's like business gets kind of dirty sometimes.
I'm not saying this. But I remember I went and saw saw Poirier's last fight and I remember waiting outside.

The people came and took him in there to test him. But are those tests, are they able to keep those tests like legitimate? Are they like? Well, the problem I believe is, well, just to give you an example.
when I was training to fight Michael Bisping,

you had to feel the whereabout.

To tell, to let them know, okay, I have training at this time, this time to this time at this place. Okay.
Oh, next week I'm in, I'm in Florida. But let's say you really want to cheat, for example.
Okay. You just tell them you're going to, I don't know, freaking Antarctica or somewhere where they're not going to spend money to send an investigator to test you.
Oh yeah. But you go there, you, you, you get your stuff and then you know how long it stays in your system.
And then after you got the, you surf on, on the, on, on it for, for weeks. You know what I mean? So, so.
Oh, I see. So you could use it to enhance you and then be clean when it's time for showtime.
Or another thing that guys do, they have sponsors. Okay? So they prepare their excuse.
So let's say I'm sponsored by a certain food supplement company. Okay.
And I'm taking, for example, a certain substance that is illegal. I know that my, the food supplement, that the protein company that sponsor me is tainted by that certain substance.
So I'm sponsored by them. So when I get cut, it's, oh, it's not my fault.
It's the company that sponsors me. So that's another way.
So you prepare your, you know, that's one of the way I would think they would do. No, I think that makes sense.
Did you feel like most of the fights you fought, your opponent was clean? I don't have the evidence. And it's wrong to accuse someone if you don't have the evidence.
But I know for a fact that there was a lot of guys, a lot of guys that were using performance enhancing drug. And it was a big problem.
And the same thing in the Olympic, where you have money, you will always have corruption. It's impossible to catch everyone because the technology to cheat will always be one step ahead of the technology to catch the athlete.
I know, it's crazy. That's like a cat and a mouse.
Yeah. Well, you were fortunate, man.
You got in and you kind of got out at the time where you wanted. I mean, you'd achieved everything you wanted.
I mean, you're one of the rare people that it's like, it's almost like if you look at your career and stuff, you're like, dang, man, he made all the right moves, you know? You were strategic about it. I was strategic, but I have the chance

to have real friends.

A lot of the people I hang out with, that I'm friend with, they were friends with me in the beginning. And for me, it's very important because they don't tell me what I want to hear.
They tell me the truth. What you need.
And even when I wanted to come back and fight Michael Bisping, a lot of my good friends, they were like, George, you're 36 years old, man. Your best years are maybe behind you.
What are you trying to prove? And my argument was like, man, I don't want to live with regret. I just want to do one more or, you know, depend on how it's going to go, you know.
And if I fail, I fail and I leave. And if I keep going, I keep going.

But at least give me one shot

and if I succeed, we'll see after,

you know what I mean?

And I didn't want to leave with regret, you know,

because let's say I would not have done it.

I will have grown up.

Now I'm 43, it's too late, you know.

I passed my prime.

I would live with regret, say,

oh, I should have done it and now I would regret it so I I always believe that you never want to live with regrets that's the worst thing is there has there been moments since then where like you're just on the couch or something you've had a couple beers and you're like I'm fucking getting back in there tomorrow and it's just like you're just kind of fired up after after when I retired I I retired because I had, when I won the title, but people don't know this, but I was very ill, like I had ulcer colitis because I was trying to gain weight. Colitis.
Yes, I was trying to gain weight because I was fighting in a heavier- Swelling of the large intestine. Yes.
I was trying to put on weight. It's Crohn's disease, you You have Crohn disease? No, no.
It's ulcerative colitis. It's not Crohn.
Crohn is different. But very often, ulcerative colitis transform into Crohn.
And Crohn transform into cancer. A lot of time, you know, you see that progression.
So when that, like when I had those crazy cramp, it was during my training camp with Bisping. And I didn't know what it was because it was blood when I was going to bathroom.
And I told myself, I said, whatever it is, I'm going to do the fight and I'm going to have, because no, no, but to know what it is, you need to do what they call a colonoscopy. So they go with a camera.
They're going to go in there. Yeah, you need to take laxative and all that.
Like it emptied you. And I was trying to put on the weight.
So you know what I mean? I couldn't do it. It was a few weeks before.
And I said, you know what, whatever it is, I'll do the fight and I'll deal with it after. And after the fight, I went to do the test and I got diagnosed with ulcer colitis and I was on heavy medication heavy medication, like for, for anti-inflammatory.

And I relinquished the title. I could have kept the title for one year and like parade with that sponsorship.
And, but I didn't want to do that because of the, for the respect, you know? So I relinquished it because I didn't know what was going to happen. I said, man, I don't know what's going to happen, you know? So I tried to get better.
And after a few weeks, it didn't really work. And I discovered fasting.
And what happened is pretty incredible. I met a doctor, Dr.
Jason Fung in Toronto. Jason Fung, F-U-N-G? Yes.
He's a- Japanese, huh? Yeah. Nephrologist.
I think he's Chinese or Canadian Chinese. Yeah.
Okay. That's him, exactly.
He gave me a fasting program. He treat a patient that has certain type of diabetes.
And he gave me certain program of fasting. And what happened after the next few weeks, all my symptoms disappeared.
Wow. And I diminished the dose of my medication until I no longer need it.
And what type of fasting? What exactly were you doing? I did two types. I did what we call time-restricted eating where you eat all your calorie in a certain window.
Okay, like intermittent fasting? Yeah, you eat your calorie in eight hours like you only drink water in the 16 hour and i do also prolonged fasting so what i do when i do prolonged fasting i do four days only water and when i train i take salt in my in my hand i put a little bit and i lick like a pervert it's okay but but you take salt because you don't want to deplete your mineral when you, and this over time, because ulcerative colitis, you're supposed to be stuck with that for life. Wow.
It's a condition you have for life. When you got it, you finish, you know, you got it.
And all my symptoms are gone. Now I can drink, I can eat whatever I want.
And I'm, I mean, I, I realized that, you know, we talk about conspiracy and stuff. The reason why you don't hear about fasting is because nobody makes money with it.
It's not no pills. Yeah, but it's really worth investigating.
Of course, ask your doctor, but man, it changes my life and I just wish I would have known this before. Really? It really did.
So you've used it in other facets too, you know, when you need it. It works for everything.
Like sometime you have an injury, like say tendonitis and tendonitis, often it's related to inflammation, you know? All inflammation disease, when you fast, it take away the inflammation. And if all the stuff that I had regarding inflammation, like one of my toes, I had a problem with one of my toes.
It was hurting me for years.

When I started doing my fasting,

it kind of disappeared.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We don't think about that.

We always think more,

more,

more,

like a more medicine,

more anything,

more,

more of this diet.

I thought the same thing before.

I was like,

oh,

protein shake this,

because I was trying to gain weight when I fought this thing.

And I realized,

man,

I was doing everything wrong. And we always think about the punch in.
We don't think about the punch out, like you were saying. We don't think about the inverse of it.
It's insane. And I remember I had a chance to go to Kenya.
Or to Tanzania. No, Kenya, Masai Mara.
I met the tribe of hunter-getter. Oh yeah, those brothers can jump, huh? Yeah, but these guys, man, sometimes they spend three, four days without eating and it's normal, they're used to it.
And if you see their old people compared to our old people, they're much more healthier. They look much better.
And the reason why people will tell me now, oh yeah, but they have a shorter life expectancy than us. Yes.
It's because of the, a lot of the child die before the age of adulthood. Oh, I see.
So the numbers are kind of- They die when they're young. Yeah.
Child, child, child, how do you say in English? Starvation or neglect? No, no, no, no. They got, they got like disease or then the hospital is too far away.
You have to, you have to drive

like five hours, you know?

Well, that right there.

If something's wrong.

Once they pass a certain point,

if you look at their,

their old people

and our old people,

they much,

they look much better.

Oh, our old people

look like shit a lot of them

to be honest.

No offense.

But a lot of them,

you know,

I've had a couple of grandparents

and they were mid,

I thought, but.

But what makes us live that long?

It's not because of our healthy lifestyles,

it's because of our technology for most of us.

Right.

That's true, huh?

That's what's saving us most of the time.

It's not us doing anything.

Yeah.

When I was a kid, for example, I had like,

it's called in French, convulsion febrile.

It's when you're a baby, you have a rise of temperature.

So what your body does, it shut itself down and it go into a coma like this. And it happened to me when I was young.
My mom told me, if I would not have technology, I was brought to the hospital and they put me on an artificial coma and everything, on plugs. And if I would not have that technology, I would have not been here with you today.
So I'm alive today because of our technology. Technology.
But how you treat the life you have is up to you as well. If you don't have technology, maybe 50% of us will not be there.
Oh, we'd be fucking cooked, dude. I'd be out probably.
A lot of my family would be gone. Oh yeah, like infant mortality rates, that's what you were talking about.
Infant mortality, because they have, Hunter Gator tribe in Africa, they have a much higher infant mortality rate than us. That's what lowered their life expectancy.
When you look at some of the fights, did you watch the Balal fight the other night? Do you watch the fights? I did. Yeah, man.
Do you think it was fair to make them fight at that hour in the morning over there? Or is that just fighting? Well, it's fair. It's fair or unfair for both of them equally.
Good point. If it's equal, it's equal.
You know, like, I don't care. You know, if you have to make them cross the desert before or swim or doing a triathlon.
If they both do it, they have to do it. It's fair.
It's not the best condition in terms of performance,

but if both guys do it, it's a fair.

It was 6 a.m. there when they started that main event.

But man, I was surprised.

He performed very well.

I'm a friend with Leon Edwards.

Oh, he's so, Leon's.

He's such a nice guy.

When I went to England a few,

like a year and a half ago, I remember I went out with him and Usain Bolt, we had a great time. Wow, that's crazy.
He's such a nice guy. I really like him.
He's a great athlete, but he's got a great personality too. Man, I'm sure he's going to come back.
It'll be interesting to see. I think it really sets up for a nice surprise.
I didn't i don't think a lot of people expected it what were the odds on it nick leon was minus 300 yeah so i think a lot of people didn't expect it so i think it adds just yeah it adds to the sport you know but i was makes it exciting i was very surprised by belal like like his transition the way because he doesn't fight like that all the time sometimes he just is mostly striker or, you know what I mean? For that fight- It was a great mix. Man, he was on point.
Like for that fight, he was like really on point. It was like, wow.
It was, yeah, I thought it was super impressive. It was really cool to watch.
It made me just kind of realize even, yeah, I didn't expect that much diversity from him. Is this what he said? Bilal wants to be greater than GSP for his legacy? He definitely can.
If he keep working hard. You know, all records are made to be broken.
Do you look back at the times when you'd like the era, or it's not really an era. I mean, it wasn't that long ago, but when you look at the time when you were fighting, right, would you rather be fighting in this era? Do you love the era you were fighting in? Do you ever think about it in spaces like that? I think I was extremely lucky to fight in my era.
It could have been better if I would have fought today. I would have made maybe more money because of the social media and all that.
But it could have been way worse. If I look at like in the time of Hoyce Gracie, Dan Severn, Mark Coleman, Don Frye, these guys were the real guys, man.
They were fighting two, three times a night. No rules, no weight class, man, that was insane.

Ken Shamrock.

For me,

I respect these guys a lot

because they paved their way

for all of us

and they didn't make money, man.

It's sad.

They didn't make money, man.

They were tough as hell.

Is there a,

like a union or something

that pays for stuff for the pioneers of it? No, there's not. Wow.
I think it's a question of time. I mean.
Yeah. Because when you say that.
A question of time. Some guys, they're trying to do it.
It got close, but then they're always fighting for power. They want to be in control.
Certain group want to be in control and others are, wants to take more power. I mean, we all want the same all want the same thing you know at the end of the day and i think it's like every sport and hockey baseball it's it's a matter of time things were the same if you look at other sports they were the same guys were underpaid their condition were not good they didn't have any assurance nothing like that and you know over time it got better i think it's only a matter of time.
The only difference is in mixed martial art, UFC has the monopoly. It's a monopoly.
They are- Right, there's one show really. Well, they have PBR.
Well, yeah, but it's the most- PFL. They have PFL.
Yeah, PFL is there- It's growing. Which is very good.
PFL is good because it's a competition to UFC, but UFC is the most prestigious organization. And PFL start to gain a lot of momentum, but which is good for fighters because it gives them the ability to negotiate.
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so early on.

Was there ever another fight? That's so great that you and Bisping got to fight. I must admit, Bisping's a fun dude, huh? Yeah, he's crazy.
He's crazy, dude. He's such a good villain.
Yes, he is. Because he knows what he's doing.
It's like he's really kind of, he seems to be a guy that's enjoyed it along the way. Yeah, he's got a mouth that can decimate all his opponent.

Yeah, that's a lot of fun.

I was like, man,

I'm not going to get into

a trash talk battle with this guy.

He's an Englishman

and we speak English perfectly.

I'm like, my English suck.

I'm like, what am I going to do with this?

I'm just also not good at,

you know, like insulting.

But also knowing that

that's not your strength,

I think was one of your strengths,

you know, knowing where to like,

I don't know, you always really had kind of a precision. It seemed like for the choices you made, um, did you, you looked at it as a business? I've heard you talk about it before.
You know, you looked at it really as a business, especially if it wasn't something that you even enjoyed on the fight nights. Were you able to pull any like real joy out of it over time? Like, or was it all when, when you finally got done, was it just like, Oh, thank God.
Like, it was a release when I got done, but, but, but I, I had great moment, a great memory of it. Like it was a lot of fun when you win, when you win a fight man you look back at it and you're thinking like man everything is worth it you know it was all worth it but when you lose man oh god it's uh it's a crazy downfall it's that's what makes it so early lost so so hard it's the risk bigger the risk reward, right? Were you a perfectionist, do you think, Dan, kind of? Yeah, I was crazy.
I was obsessed. Everything I did was always oriented to try to make me the best fighter.
Everything, everything I did. The best fighter or the best person or the best? Best fighter.
Best fighter, okay Okay. Person, I just, you know, like I was not trying to make, being a character.
I was like some guy, they try to be sort of, some sort of a character, you know? Like some good guy tried to be bad guy. You see that very often.
Or some, you know, some bad guy sort of tried to be nice in front of the camera, but when the camera doesn't roll, they become some douchebag. You see that a lot when you meet celebrities.
But I always try to be true to myself and focus on performance. Because at the end of the day, I never hate, I never had any personal beef with any of my opponent.
He's not a human being. And when I, when I look across the octagon before I fight, I sort of feel like I look to myself in the mirror because that guy maybe did a similar sacrifice that I did.
So if I disrespect him, it's sort of in the same, in a way, it's like I'm disrespecting myself. So for me, it was just, I was just extremely lucky.
Even the guy was talking a lot of trash and stuff i was lucky to have sort of that moment to shine and you know to to that people were aware and i make money with it and and you know for me after when it's finished it's finished it's not personal and there's none of the guy the guy that i be in trouble today, I would not hesitate one second to help them. Like if, if I, if they are at my reach, I would not hesitate one second to help any of them.
And I, this, I mean it. Yeah.
That's fascinating to look at your opponent and think, what if they made the same sacrifices as I did, then what, what else can I even do? That's a, dude, that's such an intense way to look at, at the other side way to look at the other person across from you. Well, but it's only like they make the same sacrifice, but maybe they didn't have the same opportunities that opens to them.
Maybe they were not as lucky as I was. I think the stars need to be aligned.
I think life sometimes opens certain opportunities to you that if you wait too much, the door will close and it's gone forever. And- Yeah, I think it's something that's true.
I mean, you look at the Diaz brothers. I mean, if you look, you know, Nick took a time off of fighting for years.
Well, they made him quit though. Didn't they make him- Yeah, he got suspended for- Mago Bueno.
And he refused to pay the fine and couldn't fight for five years exactly yeah that's one of the that's what a waste he was in his prime i think he could have maybe be champion like when i retire i was telling people i was like man if he doesn't he should push push on the gas right now and go man that's his time he should he should do it was there a time where, has there been like a fighter or something since then you look and you're like, man, it would have been fun to fight them. Or do you have like moments like that? There's a lot of guys that I wish we would have fight, you know, and, and, and that would be big fight.
It would have made a story, but, but you know, like it takes three entity to make a fight. It takes one fighter, the other fighter,

it takes the promoter as well.

And very often the promoter didn't reach our demands,

you know what I mean?

And everything needs to be aligned for the three entities.

Yeah, I know people always talk about you

and Khabib fighting, you know,

did that interest you kind of? So it was the fight that I would have come back for at the time. Not now, now time has passed.
But after I retired, there was one fight I would have, you know, I would have had to go. I would have been Khabib.
What was the most, what challenge, what excited you about that the most? I mean, obviously he was undefeated. He's undefeated, he's got a perfect career.
He's the competitor inside of me would have done, would have take the fight, you know? Yeah. You know, and that's one of the fight I would have done it, you know? Like, but it needed to be at the right time.
And when it was time to do it, UFC didn't wanna do it. Yeah.
So they wait a few years after when we were both retired and the train was passed. The moment was gone.
And when they asked, when Dana called me, I said, I thought it was weird. I was like, are you like, is Khabib want to fight? Want to fight? Because he said no in all interviews.
He said, no, no, he's down, he's down. I'm like, okay, let me think about it.
I'll get back to you. And I thought it was weird.
So I called his manager, Ali Abdelaziz, and Ali said, hey, man, the timing is not good. It's bullshit.
It's not true. And after I've said,

I've told the media what happened.

And then I went,

I don't do three people calls when I,

and I thought it was hilarious,

but because he's right.

You know, he's not going to call a guy and say,

no,

the other guy doesn't want.

No,

that's not business.

He's exactly.

He's a promoter.

He's going to say,

this guy said this,

this,

this about you.

Do you want to fight him? And you want to take, you want to use the emotions to make you tune in. It's like playing your mom against your dad.
It's like, hey, dad, mom said I can do this. And then you go to, hey, mom, dad said I can do this.
Neither one of them said they could, but now you're outside playing. Exactly.
It's all a game. It's all a freaking game.
And it's a lot of pressure, I think, on Dana probably. I bet it's a lot of pressure because not only is he the promoter, but he's also, you have to answer all the questions.
And he's in a business. He's in control of a business.
Yeah. It's not up to him.
If someone's signing a contract that sucks, he's not going to say, hey, you're worth more money. You should have, you know what I mean? I mean, man, he's a businessman.
He's going to take it and take advantage of you. So it's not because, what I'm saying is it's not, he's a, Eden is a good guy.
I've met him and when you- You met him, of course. Met him many times, but I met him while I was competing.
So when I was competing and Dana called me, I always, before I hang up the phone, I was like, shit. Take a inhale, try to think of what is the possible thing that he's gonna ask me, because you need to be quick when he calls you.
You don't wanna say something. You don't waste his time.
Or you just say, you don't answer, or you're like, you're always like, because this is a game, it's a chess game, man, with a fight game. Everything you say, everything you do is going to have an outcome.
So you're like, okay, what is he going to say? This is it. Then you prepare.
If you're ready, you take the call. If you're not ready, you let, okay, I'm going to prepare myself.
So that's how it is. Let me call Mike Brown.
Let me get somebody to massage me during the off rounds. But the thing with Dana is my relation has changed over the years because now it's more friendly.
He calls me, I'm not even going to hesitate to say, hey, Dana, what's up? Like, whatever, I'm ready for anything. But when I was fighting, it's normal to have that reaction because he's the boss and you know whatever he's going to ask you, whatever you say, it's going to be the whole world going to know.
So you cannot retract what you said. So when he calls you, when I was fighting, I was like, shit.
Sometimes I started in a sense. I was like, man, I'm not taking the call right now, or I'm going to call him back.
Think about what it could have a little strategy. Yeah.
Yes. Yeah, exactly.
It's almost like when your boss says, what are you up to this weekend? Right. You now, if your boss, but your boss, they want you to work at four 30 on Saturday.
Right. And you do not want to, but if you tell them that you're, Oh, nothing much, then you're halfway to working.
Right. Yeah.
So yeah, it's interesting when you're the owner, it's also hard to be, I bet at times it's probably maybe it not, I'm not putting words in his mouth or anything, but I bet it's tough for for him to also be a person yeah you know and maybe it's easier after the fact because running a business is totally different than um being a human being sometimes he takes a lot of heat sometime and he does a lot of stuff that he needs to do for the best of of the business of best of the ufc interests and it's normal that he's running business. And it's worked out because look at the UFC is created opportunity, opportunities for so many guys.
I had a lot of clash with Dana when I was, I didn't even know that. No, no, we did.
We did add a lot of clash clashes when, when I was fighting because I, I attained a certain level of, of power that he couldn't control me as much. All the other, some of the guys, you could say, you do this.
Oh yeah, yes, sir. Like me, I was like, no, it's not going to work.
Cause I was, I was making him a lot of profit, a lot of, a lot of money. So when you, you know, there's a lot of things that they asked me and I, and I said, hell no, I'm not doing, it's not for the best of my interests.
Right. So when the same thing, when you get negotiate for a fight, my thing was like, if I'm negotiate for a big fight, why am I going to do all the interviews, all the promotion if I don't touch a piece of the pie? Right.
Know what I mean? So give me a piece of the pie. So it will encourage me to do more promotion because if you you don't touch any piece of the pie, if you don't have nothing, why am I going to do this? I'm just going to waste my time.
While I'm supposed to train and rest, I'm going to do interviews. And your time has become more valuable because you're the champion, you know? Yeah, I think it's interesting when you get to a certain level how the negotiations kind of change.
It has to. It's pretty fascinating.
You have to be, to look at it in that way. And were you able to get like pay-per-view points and stuff back then in your fights? Yeah, I'm very lucky.
Oh, congratulations, man. Yeah, thank you.
But the thing is, there's a lot of guys in the business that in this industry that are not well managed. You know, they don't ask for what they're worth and they're kind of afraid or, you know, they don't take right decision.
And it's not Dana's job to say, hey, I think you should ask for a raise or it's normal. He's not going to do that.
He's the boss. He's on the other side of the, so that the fight game, you're fighting for a contract.
This should be your manager's fight. You have someone that look for the best of your interests and that's one fight.
And the other fight is in the octagon. Yeah.
Well, it's fascinating. You know, I think that a lot of that happens with art.
When art or talent turns into business, there's this other element that comes on, you know? And sometimes you have to trust your instincts and sometimes they're right. And sometimes they're wrong, but that's how you hone your instincts to be sharper too, is by using them, you know? And, and yeah, I bet it's tricky probably for Dana, because I bet there's a lot of guys that he super cares about and, and, but he also has to run a business, you know? So I can't imagine that's gotta be, it's gotta be tricky, you know? And i think also you hear the nicest stuff like you'll hear like all the stuff he does from his employees or places that he tries to help out during covid he didn't he didn't lay off from nobody it's amazing oh he's hell i called him the other day asking him for some help with something you know i know that um so you know he's a great guy i think he's also a great business 100 and probably where it's tricky.
He's a great guy. And fighters, like, I mean, guys that are listening to us now, when they're in the middle of a competition, you know, like when they're competing, they might be, they might not have that relationship with Dana because Dana is on the other side.
So it's always like a fight relationship. But once they're going to retire, they're going to see gonna see a total different person you know like same thing with the first step brother like uh these guys are all great guys you know and and and um every time i meet them you know it's uh hey what's up big hug dana the first step brother oh yeah yeah we're all friends here everything we did the clashes that we, it was because we were fighting for the best of our interests

and it's normal, it's just business.

And I think if you wanna be successful in,

especially as an athlete in mixed martial arts,

you need to build a team.

You can't do all that by yourself because you don't,

you don't have all the credential to do all the jobs.

You need to have lawyers, you need to find a team of people that you can trust and people that have competence. Because sometimes people, they hire people who trust, but they turned out to be incompetent.
It's bad because it's gonna make you do like, how do you say, like air bike, you know? They're not gonna, you're gonna be, you, you're not going to go forward. You're going to spin, spin, spin.
Yeah. And if you have someone who's competent, but someone that you cannot trust, maybe he's going to, he's going to, he's going to screw you down the road, you know? It's tough, man.
Starting to run a business, work with people, it's hard. But then you also like, I mean, I, one thing is like people criticize Dana and the UFC, but no other promotion has been able to sustain itself and establish itself and make it go that, you know, and flourish.
So I think it's fascinating. And I think it is probably, I think he'll be studied one day in the sense by business people.
I mean, I can't even imagine because you have so many guys that are really putting their lives on the line. And then you have, you know, I just can't imagine it.
It's got to be a lot, you know, um, what, what keeps you busy these days, dude? Do you still get those dinosaur updates? Remember you were always, uh, yeah, I love, uh, paleontology. Yeah.
What is it about it? You think that you love? I was thinking about this the other day. When I was young, I was always fascinated by dinosaurs.
And actually when I took my time off after my fight with Johnny Hendricks, I spent four years, like I was always training, but I spent time, I went on different sites. No way.
Yeah, I'm very lucky because a lot of the, it turns out that a lot of the big paleontologists that I've met, they're a fan of mixed martial art. Really? Yeah.
So I was able to have special access on different- Probably mostly of John Bones Jones, you would think, you know? I'm just guessing. That's right.
No, it was incredible. I traveled across the world.
I went on different sites, but I realized also something. As much as I love paleontology, I realized that I would never be able to do this because I thought that if I would not be a fighter, I would have maybe be a paleontologist.
And no, that's not true. I would not never be able to be on a big site for hours.
Meticulous. It ain't me.
No, I can't. I love to acquire the knowledge, but I would not have the patience to, to go out there.
I saw some incredible sites. I went in, man, I went in a, in a, in a place, in an area in, in Argentina, in Patagonia.
It was in the morning, the sun rises and I could see, I'm not kidding you, like thousands of dinosaurs eggshelled. There were eggshells of titanosaurs, the long neck dinosaurs.
Oh yeah. Man, it was insane.
And you had to watch to not step on it, like fossilized eggshells. Some of them were broken.
So that means the, to, to get out. It was insane.
Like I

saw some of the craziest sites. And that was a dig that they were doing? Yeah.
Yeah. They were, they were digging, they were excavating like eggshell.
I saw like, I, I went on a place and I think it was in, in Dakota. It was, it was with a professor.
I think it was professor Pearson. it was a, they don't know what it was,

but they found a sort of a graveyard of triceratops. In South Dakota? I think it was South Dakota or Wyoming.
Yeah. Triceratops.
It was from the late Cretaceous. And you could see that there's some of the leg bone of triceratops.
They were sliced because of Tyrannosaurus Rex. Yeah.
So they found Tyrannosaurus Rex teeth there. It was just insane.
So you're a promoter, really. When it goes back to the paleontological ages, dude, you were a damn promoter, bro.
You'd have put some of those things in the ring, bro. I think.
Oh, man. Maybe one day we'll be able to, I think they want to resurrect the mammoth now, I think, to put it back in Siberia.
Bring that bitch back, dude. Yeah, didn't they say they can recreate a willy mammoth? Did I read that somewhere? I think they're going to use Asian elephant.
And just do a wig or whatever? Put a mammoth inside and yeah, try to recreate it. Yeah, put it in Siberia.
What weight class is that going to be? There's different species of mammoth. There's woolly mammoth, Colombian mammoth, so it depends which species they want to bring back.
Let me see. A biotech company that hopes to resurrect extinct species said Wednesday that it has reached an important milestone.
The creations of a long-sought stem cell for the closest living relative of the woolly mammoth. And now the company says scientists have for the first time created induced pluripotent stem cells for the mammoth's closest living relative, Asian elephants.
Oh, damn. It says scientists can now try to use cloning techniques and gene editing to manipulate the cells in hopes of someday creating elephants with key traits of mammoths.
Wow. So kind of like a bit of a remix kind of, such as their heavy coats and their layers of fat that enable them to survive in cold climates.
Dude, that's what the zoo needs. Cause honestly, dude, the zoo, some of the animals are fucking not, even in America, some of the they're smoking.
They don't even care, you know?

They're not even-

It's sad when you don't see them in their natural environment.

Yeah.

In a way, they do it, of course, because it's not accessible to everyone.

For example, if you want to see a lion, you go to Africa, it costs a lot of money.

But to see, you know, I've been in zoos before and I like to see animals in their natural

environment, you know? You think you're going to take any animals? Are there any animals you think you could take? Man, we're so weak, man. And nature is crazy.
Apparently they say that even a chimp would kill you. Yeah, that's what they say.
I can just pull your fucking balls off. Yeah, pull your ball, break your fingers and rip your face.
You know that.

When they go on crime scenes where chimps turns against the human,

that's what happened.

It's crazy, man.

I would hate that.

Because you cannot reproduce,

you cannot climb away

and they take away your identity.

I went in Rwanda.

I had the chance to do a gorilla tricking

and you see them like I'm seeing you. Nuh-uh, this close.
Yeah, that gorilla tricking and you see them,

like I'm seeing you.

So this close.

Yeah.

That goes.

So when you go there,

it's like Rwanda in Africa and it's in East Africa.

And you take a,

you take a car.

It's about two hours away from Kigali,

which is,

I think that the capital you go there and they give you a course.

They tell you,

don't eat.

Don't don't.

If the gorilla look at you, don't look him in the eyes if he if he comes towards you don't run away just get out of the way and put your knee on the floor in a submissive pause uh don't talk loud don't ever touch the the female and the you the the the kid and when i went there it was amazing i oh yeah is this it yeah yeah that's what it is yeah yeah oh my god yeah yeah that's okay so this guy let me tell you about this why'd you dress for a funeral too listen to like guys guys this is very interesting so you see what happened okay so at during one instant during my my my adventure there i was with i was with i was with with different people that were older than me. And I don't know what happened.
At one point, the gorilla, because what happened is you hang out with the kids and the female and the young. And once every 20 or 15 minutes, the big silverback comes and he make a noise.

And the guy that is with you,

every day he sees the same family.

So he's used to see the same guy.

But the tourists change.

So the guy always answer back to tell, hey, we're here.

So he comes and sometimes he look around

to see if everything is okay.

And then he goes back in the forest.

Every 10 minutes approximately. But once he came and he look at me did you have your belt with you man he look at me and when he look at me i look i look at him just very fast and he start walking towards me like he was pissed man i got out of the way and i put my knees down and i'm not a religious guy at all, but I became religious at that time.
So I was like, please, please, please, please. And then I opened my eyes.
He's not in front of me. I look behind, I see his back.
He put his backs against me. He explained to me the reason why the gorilla, he turned his back to me is because he wanted to show me how much I'm not of a threat for him.
Wow. To show you like he turned his back and he looked underneath his arm.
So when I looked back, I was like, man, I saw his back. He was just a threat, a test.
I was like, man, he would have, even with all my years of training, he would have ripped me apart, man. Did you feel like you stood any chance? Like even, you think he could have got it to two rounds or no? I read a document.
Apparently, it's a report. I think it's in Uganda.
I read there's a military guy that a gorilla grabbed and he ripped his head off like this. Straight up from an horror movie.
He grabbed him and it's that strong. So there's nothing you can do, man.
But what would you have done, you think? I think I would have tried to play that. There's nothing you can do.
If he wants to kill you. The guy has two guys with him, with AK-47.
So they help. No, but you know, he told me it's not because of the gorilla.
It's in case we see an elephant or a Cape Buffalo. Apparently there is, it's so dense.
I don't understand that. Apparently sometimes you could run-

Right into a buffalo.

Through a Cape buffalo and they're extremely territorial.

Was that scarier than being in the cage?

Well, it happens so fast.

It's very different because it happens so fast

that you don't have time to prepare.

So you just go with the flow.

So I didn't even have time to be scared that much.

I was just, I was trying, I was like, man, please, please, please. Then I look, shit, he's in the back and I see his back and I could see the muscle through the fur.
I was like, man, it's so massive. It's insane.
Keith Peterson's just standing there. That'd be crazy.
Man, it was one of the most incredible adventure of my life. I recommend it to everyone.
And the money that you pay for that adventure is given to the gorilla. And now the gorilla in Rwanda, in that part of the world are flourishing again.
Oh, it's beautiful. So it's a beautiful thing, yeah.
It is awesome to take care of our planet and to give back to it, you know? Because it's funny, because somebody probably saw a gorilla one day and even thought about getting in shape for the first time. You know what I'm saying? You just don't know what we learn from animals, you know? What keeps you busy these days, man? Well, I'm involved with, I have a home fitness equipment brand called Base Block Pro.
It's all kinds of apparel that you can use and train at home. It's in Canada or US as well? Kinesthetics, all around the world.
I need to get something for home. It's light.
You can put some, some of them are outdoor friendly. So you can put it in your backyard.
Some I recommend it's more for backyard to put outside and some are more for inside, for home. And yeah, it's great.
I don't lift, I never lift weight really much. And I'm a big fan of kinesthetics.
You know, I used to, when I was younger to lift weight, but I realized that it's more efficient to train kinesthetics, especially when you're- And kinesthetics is what? Yeah, gymnastics. Your own body weight? Yes, exactly.
So you have less risk of injuries and I think it's more efficient. Base blocks.
Yes. Oh, sweet, man.
Yeah, I got to get something else for my home. I'm just getting a treadmill.
So I got to have something else for when I can't go down to the gym. I'll send you some.
I'll tell my guy, I'll hook you. That'd be awesome to have one, man.
Tell me which one you like. I recommend you the Big Bar Pro, this one.
If you have a backyard, put it in your backyard. It's outdoor friendly.
And if you want, like for your legs, this one is very good. It's for hamstring.
Oh, I don't care about the legs, homie. I'm up top only.
I'll send you some stuff. I'll tell the guy to send you some stuff.
You'll be more than happy. Are there some fighters right now that you love to watch? You kind of cheer on? Do you find yourself being a fan of MMA still? I mean, I know it's obviously been such such a huge part of your life i don't know if it's something you just kind of close or if it's something that's always in you kind of one thing that has changed and now there's so many fights there's almost every weekend so i can't watch it all i can't watch all the shows but but but i i love to watch some of the guys that i i can learn from i like to watch Tom Aspinall.
Oh yeah, he's fun. The fight of last weekend-

The blades, yeah. I love to watch some of the guys that I can learn from.
I like to watch Tom Aspinall. Oh yeah, he's fun.
The fight of last weekend, Balal Mohamed, Leon Edwards, I watch it. I like Kamaru Usman, Adesanya, Wakanowski, Makachev.
I like to watch the best so I can learn from them. Is it weird to look at them and be like, that was me? Because I think even as a comedian, I'll watch comedy sometimes and I'll be like, it doesn't seem like, like, I know it's different person, but it doesn't even seem like that's my job.
Does that ever happen to you? Do you ever have like this Clark Kent feeling when you're walking down the street that you're also Superman? I mean. No, I think what made me good is because I possess certain set of skills

that made me unique.

But some of the guys that are competing now,

they have their own set of skills.

And I think I can learn from them.

By watching them, I'm learning from them.

And of course, maybe they can learn from me.

So it's impossible to be completely 100% well-rounded. You always have certain things that you do better than others.
And that's why I like the sport so much. Some guys are better, for example, at grapplings.
One guy's strength might be his ground and pound. One guy might be his submission skills.
One guy might be his, you know, like Pereira. He's got an incredible left hook.
We all know he's got a left hook, but nobody, they all know the left hook is coming, but they don't know how to stop it. It's crazy.
And left hook is one of the most fundamental punch that you learn in day one. And it works.
It's one of the most basic weapon, but he does it so well. He hides it, he hides it so well.
And the way he does it, even though it's so basic, nobody can stop it. It's crazy.
That's it, that's fascinating almost, isn't it? How something simple can be, and so obvious in a way, can be so surprising. He use different diversion, different distraction to get it on.
It's crazy. And that's what I like about the sport.
It's like a chess game, you know? Oh, it's fascinating too. I think as, you know, I've been a fan now, like a big fan for probably maybe almost six or seven years now.
And you get to know the fighters more a little bit too on a personal, know like because there's so much social media you get to know more about them and kind of cheer from in different ways and stuff um but there's all types of guys who are outspoken there's guys who are kind of reserved there's guys who are playing cat and mouse and there's guys who are just about getting in the ring um have you do you have you gotten into anything else competitive uh is there something else that you do? I used to, when I was young, I used to play chess. You really? Yeah.
Growing up, I was more of a nerd, you know, at school. And I was victim of bullying at school.
So that's why I start martial art. I start karate at a young age as a self-defense.
Yeah, yeah. Then later on, it developed into a passion, passion transformed into a way I make a living.
You should pull up on those guys right now. That'd be awesome, dude.
But I used to, I remember in order to miss school, I was enrolling into chess competition because I was representing my school. And then once you win the school, you go to, how do you say like the regional? And then once you, I go to regional, you go to Montreal where it's the provincial and I never, I never made it past that.
I won the school, I won the regional, but when I went to Montreal, I never even won a match in the provincial because these guys that they, that they do. You know, that's their, you know, me, I was just doing that for fun and I was a kid back then.
So it was fun. Yeah.
Well, you found other ways to win, man. Oh yeah.
The Olympics are going on. Oh, that's a, yeah, the Olympics, man.
It's crazy. The, this big, like people like now, they talk about the, the, what happened in the the controversy the the woman and fighter you mean yeah no they they talk about the the the ceremony the opening ceremony oh yeah they thought it was anti-catholic yes i i i i was in miami uh when that happened and i saw on the news i was i was, man, I'm going to try to watch it, but now they

took it out of YouTube, so

I don't think you can see it anymore.

That's crazy.

I tried to find a way,

but I just saw some part of it and I speak French.

I was like, God damn.

It's weird. I try to not be politic,

but there are certain things that, man,

keep it at home, you don't have to show the world, I don't care who you sleep with, what you do. I mean, I like you as a person, you know what I mean? Yeah, this seems a little crazy for the Olympics, I think.
Yeah, yeah, it changes. That's one thing that changed over the year.
Like, we didn't have that before, you know? This is kind of, it seems crazy. Like, maybe the world is so crazy that I don't even know the world anymore that's what i start to wonder too sometimes yeah but yeah this stuff seems like what do we do what sport is this yeah it's that's what i don't know it's just what sport is it but i mean i probably you know i don't know it's a different time i mean i don't know what to make of it i mean it's dark forces at play it feels like sometimes.
I am not. You like going down the conspiracy rabbit hole, though it's fun.
And also the crazy part about the conspiracies is remember during like pandemic, like they said all these things and half of them were true. And it was like, well, fucking.
I was very angry about what was going on in Canada. I didn't like the way it was run during the pandemic.
I was very pissed off. I didn't like it.
I think it was an attack on our freedom. We had curfew and this, and this I'm not afraid.
Some people are like, oh, you shouldn't become a political. This is not right.
This is about, I think it's about freedom. I was not happy about the decision that were made.
I think it was an attack on the freedom. And I think everybody should have had the decision of choosing the right to make the decision.
Do I want to be vaccinated or not? And, but if you're not vaccinated, you're not allowed to do this, do this. Like, man, you have no life.
This was wrong. I don't agree with that decision.
Yeah, it started to feel like privatized communism to me in a way. It's like, you know, it's like the bait of the government, but really it's like private entities doing it.
And I wish I'd spoken up more. I think there were times for me, you know, I just felt like kind of scared or I didn't feel brave

or I didn't know some things.

They would have canceled you.

But that's crazy.

They could have canceled you.

That's the thing.

That's the thing about it.

I mean, it depends.

In Nashville, I don't know.

Nashville, Tennessee, right?

Yeah, yeah.

They can't really cancel you that much there.

Yeah, but in Canada, that was like,

it's different.

Like people don't understand,

but it was different.

We had a curfew. It was crazy.
Like, man, I couldn't get out of the country. I had business to do.
You know, my business is international. I had to travel, so I had no choice.
I did it. But I think I was not agree with the decision.
Yeah. And there's my right to say so.
Right. And if I would have said it at the time, maybe they would have have put down my Instagram, put down all my stuff.
I know that's what it is. It really feels like big tech is kind of the government now, you know, but man, it's just an honor to sit down with such a champion these days and just get to have a chance to spend time with you, George and do you, you know, they have the thing in the olympics right now they have a boxer who they who has like oh yeah it's a female boxer right and but she um she was born a female and is a female let me say her name iman khalif yeah algeria and um and she's crushing and she hasn't won all of her fights and um but there's people like it's been a huge uproar online because i guess she had higher testosterone levels and she wasn't allowed to compete in the world boxing championships um do you think at some point because this just appears to be something that kind of happens more where there's some gray area in between gender, right?

Yeah.

Do you think they should just have a new division? Well, this, I don't know enough information about that particular situation to give an opinion on it because I might be wrong. Yeah, you don't want to offend.
But one thing I can tell you,

when a man is born,

when you're born as a man and then you change your sex and then after you go compete as a woman, this I think is disgusting. Yeah.
This, I'm not afraid to say it and stand up for that because I love women and I think they need to be protected, especially in combat sport. This, I'm not agree with this.
I agree. I want everybody to have equal, to be, to have the equal right.
But when you have someone who was born as a man who changes sex as a woman and then compete, I think he should have his own category. That would be fair because otherwise it's unfair.
We're different. Like, I mean, why? Okay,'m going to change my sex and go compete in the UFC and make a comeback in the woman division.
What do you think can happen, you know? That'd be crazy. You know what I mean? It's not fair.
You know, maybe some of them will kick my ass, but I think I will do pretty well, you know? Yeah. Andrade might give you a run.
There's a couple of ladies out there that would give you a run. Yeah.
But I agree. And they should solve it.
I think it's not fair also if people are dealing with this, their own sexual identity and they don't know. Create a new division so that they can be there and be the pioneers of a new division.
You know, it's like then that way it's like they're getting to be a part of something new. They're getting to fight against like-minded people.
I don't know. But I agree with you.
I agree. They should have their own division.
I think if you're born in a different gender, because man, it's really not fair. People have no idea the difference, but man, it's huge difference.
I mean- It's a huge difference. Oh God.
We've seen in tennis, you know, like I think it is it, I think it's Serena Williams, she played tennis against- Oh yeah, she got defeated. And it was done in boxing too, with a few times with the, she's a Dutch champion in kickboxing.
She fought a man in boxing and you know, and this, like in tennis is different because it's a game, basketball, it's a game, but when it's combat sport, I think we should protect- It's unbelievable. We should protect- Protect our females.
The women, yeah. And the men should speak up for that, you know? The men should speak up for that, you know? The problem is sometimes when you speak up to that, you get point by the finger and the, ah, this is unfair, but- That's the media that's fucking, they're sick.
But here is, there's a fight in BJJ actually in, is it this? Craig Jones Invitational, he's doing his tournament the same weekend as ADCC and the main event is going to be him versus Gabby Garcia. Oh.
Now this though, they're both agreeing that they want to do it. I'm sorry for my ignorance.
Is Gabi Garcia is a... Female.
She's a female, female. Like she's not like...
Yeah. Okay, okay, okay.
But lots of help. Yeah, yeah, of course.
A lot of enhancement. Okay, wow.
But is it like a novelty fight sort of or more like a... He's competing against the ADCC.
So he's doing this to get all the eyeballs on it. He's doing it the same weekend.
It's interesting. Yeah, because Craig Jones is one of the best grappler of the planet.
Yeah, for sure. So he's probably going to...
I mean, I don't know. I don't know enough about Gabby.
So yeah, I heard about that event event, that it was like a million dollar event and in the same time as the Abu Dhabi event, but I don't know all the detail on it. Wow.
Oh my God. Okay, that's her.
That is her. My gosh, boy.
I am. She's bigger than him, right? I gotta get to the gym.
How about Craig Jones is one of the best. Yeah.
It should be interesting. Can, what about just in jujitsu? Can women compete as well in there if there's not striking? Well, they can compete women against women, but- Against men, it's still- Well, look...
The strength. The strength is different.
And there's a lot of factor too. I mean, I'm not a specialist in that, but the bone density, there's a lot of factors.
I mean, there's things... First, I think women are better than men.
They can give birth and there's... We couldn't endure that.
Like women are better than men, you know? Yeah, dude. This is what I believe.
But there's one thing that we have better than what we have. Normally we're more physically stronger.
Yeah. And we have certain advantage.
And that's why there's different category. There's men and women.
And that's why, you know, to make it fair. But in Jiu Jitsu, the same thing.
Of course, if you take a woman, for example, who has a lot of experience, make her fight, a man who does not have any experience, the woman can kick his ass. Kick his ass, yeah.
100%. But if you go to the elite level, it will be, it will be pretty unlikely.
Yeah. Yeah.
It'd be interesting though. Yeah.
Now that kind of stuff I think is a little bit more, you know, it's like we're both agreeing to do this thing, you know? Rush, man. Thanks so much, dude.
Thank you, man. So cool.
Thank you for having me, man. Yeah.
It's really awesome and just, just really cool to be in the presence of somebody that's achieved such greatness in their life that got in and got out. And yeah, do you have any other big goals in your life right now, do you feel like? Well, I- You feel pretty content? Or does that, does a person that's a perfectionist kind of, I'm kind of a perfectionist too, I think.
Do you ever get content, do you feel like? I never, I'm never satisfied. Now I'm more of an entrepreneur now and and that's my goal i i'm i'm very lucky i was able to transfer that that hunger that i had in in mixed martial art i wanted to be the best be the champion now i transfer it into you know into a business you know and or into my person i wanted to be a better person and I'm happy.
Like if things go well for me, I have enough to live for the rest of my life. If I don't go crazy and then I'm, you know what I mean? I'm trying to be happy.
I think the ultimate goal, right? For everyone is to be happy. Oh, for sure.
There is different ways that you can use to attain that feeling, but it's to be happy. you know? And right now I'm very happy, I'm healthy, I'm happy.
Are your parents pretty proud of you? Yeah, they're very happy. My parents, in the beginning, they didn't want me to fight.
And I understand them. I, it's not something that you want.
No. It's not a life that you wish for someone you love..
Most kids, you tell them not to fight. Man, I'm going to tell you something that happened to me all the time.
There is parent that comes to me with their kids and they're like, hey, George, this is the future world champion. And then I go, oh, hi, how old are you? He's 12 years old.
Oh yeah, you train martial arts. He's like, yeah, it's good.
But remember something, stay at school, man. And you need to be educated.
That's your number one priority. And the problem that a lot of athletes, and not only in MMA, in everything.
In Canada, we have a lot of that example in hockey, but it could be basketball, football. A lot of athletes, they put their eggs all in the same basket.
Oh, yeah. So they all want, they all dream to be a professional athlete, but something happened.
They get hit by a car. Boom! Or they get an injury, like they break their ACL or their knees or something happened.
Now their career is gone. They're never going to come back the same.
And what happens if that incident happened when you're like in your late twenties? There's nothing that you can fall back into if you don't have school. There's nothing.
So it's an assurance. I quit school when I was fighting Matthews, before my fight with Matthews.
So my parents forced me to stay at school, to stay educated. And it was one of the best thing that they did.
Cause you quit college then? Oh, I wanted to quit everything. But I was studying in kinesiology.
But I didn't like what I was doing at the time. I didn't know.
I was changing all the time. One time I tried to be a fireman.
I had many jobs. One time I was working in nightclubs as a security.
To pay my university fee, I was a garbage man for seven months. Really? Yeah, I collect the garbage, man.
That's what I did. And I did it.
But I was always forced, my parents always forced me to stay educated. And when I tell the kids, I say, man, train, you know, but I wish you the best, but the odds of success are very low, you know? And even you're so talented and you work really hard, that does not mean you're going to make it because that chance of success are so low.
Make sure you stay educated. And if something goes wrong and you cannot achieve it, at least you have something to fall back into yeah and maybe you're gonna change your mind you know what i mean you're not the same person at 15 that you will be at 20 and at 25 things changes yeah i i didn't know what i wanted to what i wanted to become when i was young and i'm sure the same for you like oh yeah like i wanted to be a police uh cops at one point.
Then I wanted to be a fireman. Then I'm like, oh, I wanted to do a therapist.
Then a paleontologist. Then I'm like, oh, I'm going to be a fighter.
You know what I mean? But the fighter was always in my mind since the beginning. But I needed to have a backup plan.
I didn't know what to do. I realized when I had my first title shot that it was an opportunity of a lifetime and that's when i had a talk with my parent i told my parents i said listen i'm gonna quit the next session because i'm gonna train full-time because i have a title shot if that doesn't work i can always go back next season to school, but the title shot might never come present.

The chance for the title

might not ever present itself again.

So I'm going to take a chance

and I'm going to go full out.

And I went full out.

I lost my first title shot,

but I rebound immediately.

And then I ended up winning the title.

And that's how everything started for me in the UFC.

Did they come to your fights to your folks? I'm sorry? Did they come to your fights? They came to my fight, my parent, when it was local. But my mom came to my fight when I fought for the title in Sacramento when I won the title.
But my dad doesn't like to fly. He's afraid of airplane.
It's crazy. He's afraid of airplanes.
You're afraid of nothing, which is kind of ironic. I'm afraid of a lot of things, but I'm willing to do it.
That's the difference. Willing to commit.
Thank you so much, George St. Pierre.
I appreciate your time. And yeah, just helping us learn more about fighting and more about the mentality of being a champion and the ups and downs of it, you know, that not everything's perfect, but that we keep

moving forward and challenging ourselves. I appreciate it so much, man.

Thank you, man. Thank you for the opportunity to you.
I appreciate it.

Cheers, brother. I'll share this peace of mind.

I found I can feel it in my bones, but it's going to take a little time.