Knit Out’s Turkish Blueprint: Rollic Games scaling puzzle games Like a PRO

Knitout came out in mid-March, right?

But Wool Sort came out in early February.

And if you go on YouTube and just search Wool Sort, you can see that it's like an unpolished kind of mishmash of all the puzzlers we've covered from this past six months on the podcast.

It is super funny.

Here, like you take the screen when you find the video.

Oh, there you go, please.

It's like everything.

looking.

Yes,

my god, Jesus Christ.

And the best part, I play this game quite a lot as well.

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Hello.

Hello, you again?

Hello.

Good to see you.

Hey.

Yeah.

Are you here?

Yeah, it's weird not seeing Jakub with a shirt anymore.

Yes, no.

I'm still Miami.

I'm still Miami.

So it's still Miami.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

9080.

I got scolded for black t-shirts, then I got scolded for a shirt.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

I'm just saying you look good in the shirt.

Yeah, yeah.

It's way better when we record like multiple episodes in a row, like in between like a few days, rather than just big pause for two weeks when I'm up.

This is way more fun.

So, welcome, everybody.

My name is Matiel Ancheric.

And I'm Felix Broberg.

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And

we are

your

hosts.

Oh, we nailed it.

Finally, it only took six episodes.

60, maybe.

60, maybe.

60, maybe.

Maybe 60.

And today, we're talking about the game which is called Knit Out and it's done by our dear friends who else from Turkey Rolik and it's amazing I actually I actually like it knitting is cool again I mean yeah why not it's also quite uh I mean relaxing this is exactly my type of game

the grand demographic yeah absolutely zero brain cells still playing this the solitaire no no no man my biggest problem is that the fucking toy story ip IP, and then, like, if I have

a button, if I have a button that says skip this terrible Toy Story IP, I will pay

$100

immediately.

Skip this stage to whatever else.

Then I will do it immediately.

Just the visual, nothing else.

Yeah, but that drives me crazy.

That visual drives me crazy.

So, not anymore.

Thank you very much for

this.

I mean, it's still 260-ish

levels.

Anyway, that's not important.

Should we start with the game this time?

Because it's just.

No, let's do numbers.

Yeah, yeah, let's.

Let's start with the game because it's kind of like telling, right?

What the whole industry, what's happening, particular with Vietnam and China right now, because this game has started to scale.

And already I have counted today that I found, let me break it down.

62 games from Vietnam.

There's like one, two, three, four, five, six

copies of the core mechanic that have already been released.

So, anyone who makes a puzzle strategy game or puzzle game needs to have pretty much a Vietnam or China strategy these days.

Yeah, okay.

So, let's start with the game.

Yes.

You can really see that there's like Rolex fingerprints all over it from the moment you start playing it, I would say, because it's

26 and 24, great.

Which is really interesting because you don't have the no ads button there oh really

yeah yeah because he's android that's the thing felix you won't level seven no no no no no no i knitted out twice i knitted out no you didn't

22.

wow

we still suck by the way but if i play this like two or three more days i'm gonna be 100 which i'm still gonna do because i'm interested in what like what's gonna happen later i hope you can this is

see.

I see the YouTube on the background.

This is actually very similar to the creatives that they have, but still.

It's

not as hard,

but

it kind of gets interesting.

Let's call it interesting later.

Like in like 24, 2, 3, 4,

it's just.

It's very good.

It's very good.

Yeah.

It's super relaxing.

Honestly, oh my God.

What's happening here is that

again,

we have a big kind of iteration with the bench mechanic.

Yes.

Which is, by the way, like connecting factor between all these rolling games, pretty much.

Yeah, but they have all block gem.

But all all these other games, like everybody's like, this mechanic is just like it creates new puzzlers.

It's so good.

Yeah.

It's like very, very good.

I had a feeling I'm playing Blockgem3D.

Yeah.

With the spin.

That's it.

It's very, very close to block gem 3D, actually.

Anyway, so

what's happening here?

So we have the

knitting on the top, basically.

Like these

scarves, I guess, or knit Persian carpet scarves.

Whatever.

Would you say the nitty-gritty?

Good one.

Yeah, so what's happening again?

We have our bench and then we have literally like reverse block gem on the the bottom.

It's like yarn, or yeah, it's like a little thing that you have done.

The mechanics of it works literally like block jam because you need to get to like the stuff that's behind it.

So, let's say if I want to pull in this piece, if I need to pull the piece before it, there's these like random tunnels or hidden pieces and stuff like that.

So, let's say we have orange here, want to put orange yarn here,

it gets there, and it's like reduces stuff.

And then you get blue one here, and yeah, it took the blue blue segment, but it still ended up

34%.

You don't really know how much percent it gets.

Oh, you do, man.

Oh, you do.

You can calculate by like looking at this.

Just

orange, and that's almost like either 70 or almost 100.

That orange bob.

Almost 70 or almost 100 doesn't really sound exactly.

I'm with the Acoupones, Matthias.

Almost 100.

Come on.

Yeah, this is

almost

gonna be 70 or almost 100.

Let's do blue.

Let's do blue.

What do you say on blue?

If you do blue, it's gonna be full for sure.

Okay, so let's do blue.

Yeah, but you don't really need

there.

You go.

So it's it's it was not full.

It was not full because there was 34%.

Which is between 70 to 100.

So it's actually that block is the same amount, same amount.

Like do the orange one, and it's gonna be the same thing.

What is like 60?

He's gonna lose if he does the orange right now.

Yeah,

I don't care.

Do green?

No, you have three.

You just do green and then you uncover

what?

Oh, the green in the middle.

Yes, that one.

You can't do that.

Did you game?

This, yes.

That one, yeah, just click.

Fine.

Then click on.

Not.

But that's clocked.

Yeah.

Yes, but now it's fine.

Now I'm fine.

Because if you did, if you did the

brown and then under the that one.

You can't do the brown, it's locked.

You can't do the brown, man.

There's block obstacles here.

Yeah, there we go.

So you slowly need to remove the Persian carpets from the top, and you shouldn't block yourself.

The interesting part is that in the beginning, the game literally plays itself because it takes some time for the carpets to kind of knit out, and in between, you can do another move and so on and so forth.

So it's very, very relaxing.

But then, as you see,

if we do this, wow

yeah it gets very very hard fast because all of these things are pretty much going on different tracks and

there's like multiple combinations of moves you need to plan the head because the combinatorics here on the bottom also hinders like how much different colors you can use.

The best case scenario is pretty much do moves that unlocks all of the colors around it.

So for me, for instance, best case would be going somewhere here and not not do the green ones here because they don't unlock anything if i use them but if i unlock this one if i do this suddenly i can do two more colors that i couldn't before so so forth so let's say this way and we can finally get the orange one and so on so forth so yeah

what i was right

i was right those those small blobs is like 33 or 34 percent and the the big ones are six uh the rest basically to the hundred that's right matia you were right because you've not been wrong ever.

I was wrong always.

I'm always wrong.

It's fine.

Yeah, and now I lost completely.

Anyway, so the gameplay is very interesting.

It's a combination of like a relaxing puzzle, and again, the bench mechanic makes the difficulty there.

So that's done pretty well.

This is a hard level, so as I said, like

it will be basically hard.

Show the boosters.

Yeah, so the boosters, well, we can play it a little bit with boosters.

By the way, this is a random puzzle, puzzle, you know, that

they're deterministic when you see it.

Yes, because the layout changed the colors.

Because I played one level, it was exactly the same.

Really?

Which was an earlier randomizer here, also.

Which was early level, though, so it might be.

Could be.

Maybe there's a combination, no, no, but from my point of view, it seems like it's random.

I was about to say, like, and it's deterministic, but I only lost once.

Don't know.

There you go.

Start with the scissors.

Come on.

Yeah.

Instantly fill or select the boobin with the correct row.

Press the bobbin.

Yeah.

So satisfaction about that.

Yeah.

Then select any bobbin on the grid.

Yeah, this is pretty much the cheat code.

Yes.

And then the last one is just like, yeah, perfect.

Yeah, those are super satisfying.

Later down the line on level, I think, 19 or 18, you unlock one more bench slot

and twenty five and on twenty five on other one more bench slot and that's basically it.

Level eighteen is when you start with interstitials.

I not for me.

Not really.

I think it was it was a little bit different.

I know I saw a first ad after the let's call it tutorial when you get actually to see the

the the levels or like the the route basically which is first ten or eleven And then afterwards, I could see first ads.

And did you notice also something really interesting,

which they also started showing, which is this, which is a pop-up after the first interstitial to remove ads.

So it's a full screen that covers, that just says you can remove ads by purchasing an iPad.

Yes, that's exactly what I had.

And that's the no ads.

That's the no ads button right in the corner, top corner.

Afterwards.

It's a bit reminiscent of word search.

word search because they kind of do the same when you exit the store.

But I guess these pop-up things is how you push people towards an IEP when you first see the ad.

But super interesting.

Yeah, so because we use all the boosters, we're gonna basically win the level here.

I really hope so.

You can should be now easy.

Yeah, it is.

It's fine.

No worries.

So and yeah, all these yards basically is out and there we go.

There's an ad placement right there.

Yeah.

So if we move here, pretty much we move on the usual track.

I can even move it around.

Incidentally, no events or stuff around it that you would usually expect there.

I guess they're still kind of fine-tuning the

warning.

It's like the color block champ

growing since launch and they introduce different things.

So this is the next

that will be the next

afterwards yeah yeah

colour block gym is now like going but yeah like that's for me honestly it's a surprise it's a very big surprise like not not because i wouldn't expect but how much they grew like since the launch

yeah yeah hats off yeah

it's like definitely i think it was even uh

um

strauss mentioned it in the investor

I definitely mentioned it in my hybrid casual report.

Yeah.

Which you can check down in the discussion.

Anyway, so can you talk about the monetization?

Well, let me just finish the feature set.

So what happens later, basically more level-based mechanics are added.

This is level one hundred and ninety-four, which adds these freezers.

It's basically color block jam.

Like like that's not really like a bad way to go to like use the mechanics they've been using.

Like, and it's

one of those, yeah, exactly.

Why we're in Venezuela.

It's one of those less populated mechanics curves.

So, you see that they don't really need to use that much mechanic, as usual match 3, which is like every 30 levels a new mechanic.

This is probably much less kind of populated with new mechanics.

Just the puzzle is so good to drag it on by itself.

So, again, usual Rollic way, I would say.

It's literally their playbook, but it's done very well.

And you talk about it like it was super easy.

Like, it's a usual Roleg way.

It's come on.

Like, this is absolutely super hard.

It's super hard to iterate, of course.

But the thing is that only Rolek people know the benchmark to strive for.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Because they know the funnels with these unique puzzlers.

They know the churn ratios they should be aimed for, the difficulty ratios, the difficulty curves, and the APS curves, all of these things.

They have them right in front of their eyes.

It's called colour block jam.

Yeah.

and so you know, it started with different games, though, like Twisted Tango and all these different things.

They

my guess is that they literally, like, even this game is part of a like

larger undertaking of they throwing a lot of these bench mechanics around these unique puzzlers and then just seeing what works well and then just going with it.

So, probably, even though we're seeing this great game, it was probably a product of like, I don't know, hunger games between hundred prototypes,

Thousand prototypes.

Yeah, maybe thousand.

I don't know.

I think

they got, I'm dare to say that they got the wool or the knitting mechanic.

I'm wondering if they got it from Wool Sort and then they iterated and made it a lot better because Wool Sort is very similar in terms of the core mechanic, but a bit different.

And it came out

a couple of months before Knit Out did.

Like

here, if you give me the screen, I can show you.

Yeah.

So here.

So here.

you made it okay good yeah so here's wool sort by you know what side cheese yes

please just go yes please

here so here you can see that uh knit out came out in mid-march right um but will sort came out in early february and if you go on youtube and just search wool sort

uh you can see that it's like an unpolished kind of mishmash of all the puzzlers we've covered from this past six months on the podcast.

It is super funny.

Here, like you take the screen when you find the video.

Oh,

can I see the disco screen?

Oh, there you go.

Please.

It's like everything.

Yes.

Oh, my God.

Jesus Christ.

And the best part, I play this game quite a lot as well.

The English buttons when you first load the game for like a fraction of a second are all in Chinese before it just goes into English.

It's amazing.

Isn't this something like a strong game on WeChat or something?

Might be.

We need to ask our kind of game.

This definitely looks like three games jammed together.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

But I'm wondering if Rollick saw that and was like,

knitting.

Yeah, knitting.

I mean, we already have screw jam, so.

I mean, this is like everything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yo, I heard you like puzzle games being played simultaneously.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

Anyway, we can go back to yeah, let's go back to knit out, but uh I would love to hear what you say about the monetization mechanism, like and how it pushes people into making IEPs.

So knit out itself is currently doing something like uh sixty K uh on Fridays.

Those are usual peaks on Sensor Tower as usual,

uh per day.

Download wise, it's doing, I would say, okay-ish because, again, this is, I guess, 13 traffic,

I think.

Yeah, so 20k downloads a day with like 6k, 5k, US downloads.

Yeah, 60% of revenue coming of US.

So, those are high CPIs.

Active users.

That's the thing.

Is it though?

I mean, it's the news.

If it would not be, then why are they not scaling faster?

Look at the active user base.

It's going up.

They're doing some pretty good numbers from not that many users.

Yes.

Yeah.

It's looking a bit like grand games in the sense of how many users they had to how much IEP revenue they're generating.

You mean like magic sword.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay.

You will see shit in this retention curve, man.

Like this is too early.

Yeah.

Anyway.

Regarding the monetization itself,

as you saw when I was playing it, it's just the usual playbook, nothing really to it.

It's like sunken cost fallacy that you want, don't want to lose your progress.

There's a lot of mechanisms, but I don't see streak mechanics, you know,

later.

Yeah, like colour blockchain, yeah.

It's, I think

probably, there's a different playbook that, or let's say it's part of the Derolic playbook that we have.

Can we agree on like removing the word playbook from this podcast, please okay it was used like million times for different reasons and i would like to replace it with with like the

word felix would mention once or twice blueprint bluefront blueprint sure

you said a million times oh no just trust

blueprint okay where they were thank you i think their production priorities are different than the usual setup that you would be expecting from some of these games because usually what's happening here is that you build like a very good engaging core and you like make the meta stronger, stronger, stronger, stronger.

But how I see it and how I see Rolling's games scaling is that they're actually going more and more towards refining the content and the levels and the level curves and everything.

And only when these things are super balanced, then they add the metas on top of it.

They don't do it the other way around, as you see it with most of these games.

They just like, oh, we have an aging core, great day one, day seven, like slap everything on it.

Yeah, let's go.

Yeah, so this is not the case.

So I guess, again, this is probably because of that blueprint that they're following, that they're looking for those internal benchmarks.

That is this hitting day one, day three ratio?

Is this hitting this churn ratio?

Is this hitting this level curve?

Also, say,

is this scalable to certain level of spend?

Because I'm, and this is not an ambush ad, it's just like my way of thinking.

Yeah,

Like my way of thinking, like how, like, when they add like all like multiple different things that you just mentioned, if this scales, if it doesn't mean like a ROS target, basically.

Or just let's say spend levels on, like, let's say we, if we hit 30K

per day and the ROS is whatever, 120 days, 100% is 120 days, or 90 days, or whatever.

It's now actually, if we add more, we can scale.

If, let's say, the ceiling on the daily basis is like 10k

and we can still make 60k, which is fine, but it's not like color block gem, right?

So it's like, okay, it's not worth it.

Let's call it that way.

I mean, that's just my view.

Maybe.

It's definitely a different style of building these games than

other people that we see on the market.

Can you lose the level?

Just quickly?

I've done it multiple times already.

Right.

So here, this key playing, right if you pay 900 coins then the next time as well it scales up right it's not 900 coins all the time So if you lose it is 1800 out there as well

that's standard.

That's what they do

And then they have the offer that that's that's like hexas or cell offer that they have there

Yeah, as I said like it seems quite simple but again, it's all hidden behind those curves that they're pretty much following with the difficulty and the levels and everything curves or difficulty curves or maybe ROS curves as well

because today's episode

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Say hello.

Thank you very much.

We can get back to the episode.

Yeah.

Hello.

So

yeah, I think that's pretty much it from like the stores.

What do you think about the stores?

You want to actually see the screenshots or what no no go into the store in uh

on the game actually

in the store

so it's going to the store you mean the shop the shop yeah the shop yeah the blueprints thing threw me off right so

yeah nothing really to it it's yeah

it's like these you permanentize dynamically these are all usually anchor points again

not really to it one other thing i wanted wanted to show you is that if you look at the category, this is under sword actually.

If we go

here,

yeah, so it's sword sub-genre on Sensor Tower.

And if we go on sort subgenre regarding the IP revenue, of course, magic sword killing it, the top earner there.

There's whole people.

Which is check that out.

Yeah, we need to check that out.

This is also coming from our friends from Rollik.

And it's actually super interesting in our bot

yeah yeah our bot caught it and it's uh

like a very nice iteration of the whole io mechanic and i guess rolek is firing on all cylinders

for some time man like this is not a surprise yeah yeah with blueprints like that they can't you see the curve here is pretty much even better curved than the one that we're talking about today all right

so thank you very much for listening let's just talk about the whole

Yeah, so you know, the whole battle mechanic that is happening between Voodoo and Homa again

has spread out.

So that's there.

But then what I wanted to say is that on third spot regarding IP revenue, isn't it out?

Right there.

And then you have all the bus jams, hexaswords, car jams, C2As, and all the other games that are pretty much a little bit fading away, I would say, from the time we cover them up.

Yeah.

So

if we go to ad revenue, right?

So interstitials start dynamically, it seems, depending on who's playing it, but it probably comes a bit later on, right?

And this is kind of a trend that we've been seeing.

We've been seeing this trend kind of with a Word Search Explorer, Magic Sort, that you push interstitials further back to allow the core gameplay to be more engaging.

So users stick around.

So that's definitely one of the trends for these guys, right?

And it's also moving away a bit from the overall ad revenue when you're getting this much

IAP revenue.

So you can watch a rewarded video if you're out of lives as to refill a life without a cap.

I saw six in a row just to get more lives.

But also the timer for refilling lives is quite short.

I think it's 10 minutes per life.

So you just put the phone down, you come back and you can play again.

But just look on the different monitor and then spec.

Exactly, exactly.

Quite a different game on the frame same monitor.

And then you have the two coins after each level.

And then if you don't watch a rewarded video, then you get interstitial.

And the interesting thing here is what I said was that remove ads pop-up that comes after the first interstitial,

which is a bit similar to kind of Word Search Explorer, how they force you kind of to watch a rewarded ad, like

after you leave a shop.

It's kind of just...

pushing users, I guess, to just want to remove the ads.

Also, one interesting thing is the session length, according to Sensor Tower, is 7.7 minutes per day over 2.2 sessions.

So there's really not that much time to watch that many ads.

So I think ad revenue is anywhere between

right now 15 to 20k per day, which is 23 to 26%, but it's not more than that because there's no banners.

There's no banners, but still, you definitely want to watch the double coin.

Yeah, the double coin.

Yeah, the double coin.

But if it's true with these session lengths, there's not that much time to watch that many rewarded ads.

So what I put down was pretty much

three rewarded ads and 3.5 interstitials.

Man, you can watch way more than three rewarded videos.

At least five or six.

The thing is, right?

Okay,

let's just bump it up to five, right?

Right?

If we bump it up to five, the overall ad revenue is still 22k per day, which is 30%,

right?

So, definitely, we're close here.

We're between 23 to 30%.

It's not going to be 40%.

It's not 50%.

You could see it also on the downloads, like there would be different traffic volumes.

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

But it's kind of interesting because now all these games that are scaling,

like Board Search Explorer, like Magic Sword, like they're scaling and they're pushing back ads.

So, yeah, ads are getting pushed back.

Because everybody's turning to casual from hybrid.

Yeah.

Because, you know,

what you want to end up with is not a hexasort that lasts for a year and is great.

You want to end up with color blockchain.

That grows forever.

It's forever, but it pretty much grows to monstrous size on IIP can.

Sure.

And also with IIP monetization, what comes is high CPIs.

I mean, it depends if you have a web shop or not, right?

Is there a websh?

That's true.

I don't think there is a a web shop, but I think they should definitely call Fast Spring because this episode is also brought by our other sponsors.

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There you go.

Why did you turn out to do this like some kind of Super Bowl commercial?

That's amazing.

What?

Because look at him.

He's a redneck.

I have a few more in my sleeve and you shit your pants.

You literally shit your pants.

You know, I want to see some creatives because I'm wondering how they're doing it.

I'm assuming it's just the gameplay creatives or is there anything

unique?

Do they have real-life hooks with knitting?

I haven't seen

Grandma Knitting.

Oh, Jesus Christ.

I could see like ASMR, someone pulling out a wool sweater and just taking it out.

Color knitting.

Color knew.

Really?

Yes.

That's what I want to show you.

So they're having clothes creative.

Which is not even their game, right?

I see one as well.

Yeah.

So I was like, oh, wait a second.

And then I saw the

end card.

I was like, okay,

this feels like a different game.

Wait, it is.

It is.

So there was a testing the CPIs of their competitors?

I probably just

took this and then tried this out.

But yeah, we have

all of these a different kind of.

Is this a competitor or a different?

No, no, this is

this actual

need out, need out creative.

It's just different perspective.

But all of these, and watch closely that

because I'm going to ask you one question at the end of all of these.

Yes, a thousand times.

Yes, yes, I'll marry you.

Thank you very much.

Because they all like, I think like 99% of their ads is one thing in common, one thing only, and I hope you will see it.

But I kind of think you won't.

But anyway, I will still ask.

What is it?

So it's like

you wish

it's the direction of the core gameplay, it's yeah, they're like these are the iterations of like the different perspectives just different angles from sideways.

It's not different, yeah,

it's different angles,

it's different angles, but it's not exactly they have also like this different

pictures which I will get into it, but also I cannot knit the knots fucking hell like that's such a great headline.

It's all it's basically all the same, right?

I will get to it.

This again,

slightly more ASMR stuff,

which is which is great to see, although the actual sound effects are absolutely annoying, so it really destroys the whole ASMR effect.

Oh, fuck, it kills my ears.

Why don't they have a hook with someone like breaking a sweater, like a knitted sweater?

Yeah, or just grandma knitting.

Yeah.

Doesn't matter.

AI hook, grandma sitting on the chair and just knitting.

That's it.

This is really nice.

Imagine if they got Pedro Pascal to knit.

Great.

And then solving a mystery.

Oh, wait a second.

That's a different game.

So all these different variations, which is also kind of angles, colors.

Yes.

Interesting.

There we go.

What?

It's not exactly what you thought it is.

It's not pulled down.

No, no.

Yeah, that was the first thing.

Then, like, I thought that there would be the snake.

Come on, like, you will need a sweater for a snake?

No, I would need the snake.

Yeah, you would you would need the snake.

Again, exactly.

There is also one thing which is common, even in this creative.

Ah, they're running CTV ads.

No uh well, not really.

Although

they could, if they call

VIPE, our dear sponsors, because if you want to launch CTV campaigns, you go to vibe.co and you can launch CTV on Hulu, Roku, Tubi, you name it in minutes because it's very simple, totally self-serve, and actually drives real business.

5,000 brands are already using it, so maybe it's your turn.

Check out VIBE.co.

It's vibe.co.

Tell them we sent you because you want to launch some C T V campaigns.

And we want to show I want to show you some more creatives of the

really need to try this.

It's becoming from ambush ad to trigger ad, meaning that whoever says it first triggers Mate like a jukebox.

Yes.

Well,

you will see.

I'll see, I'll see, I'll see.

So it's all of these different things.

Again.

What's the like the

thing that I'm

trying to ask?

What all of these they have in common?

One thing.

Tell me.

Someone has the radio on in the background?

Maybe that's just

annoying.

It's the core gameplay, and they just change direction and colors.

And And they don't change.

Okay, then I don't know.

Guys,

every creative that I showed you, it's 30 seconds long.

Everyone,

30 seconds, 30 seconds, 30 seconds.

Every 30 seconds, 30 seconds, 30 seconds.

Everything is 30 seconds.

Guys, like, this is absolutely terrible.

I mean, honestly, why

why would you even do this it's just uh and this is basically my life easier as this

no finally there we go 55 finally this is exactly what you what you need especially on facebook these days long form creatives

if you if you watched or maybe you're gonna watch the the creative trends I'm gonna talk about like how the creat how the long creatives are actually really working on Facebook and for a lot of different games And this is exactly what you need.

It doesn't really matter if it's just one long creative or just two creatives stitched together.

It still needs to be anything above like 45 seconds or more than 45 seconds.

But this is kind of.

So why is it bad for non-UA people?

Because you need diff because 30 seconds.

Do you remember when we did the research with Daxeli and Filippo at Traplite?

We had

modular creatives by like five seconds, and we tested anything from five seconds until one minute.

And every different length unlocks different

placements on Facebook and gets different types of

traffic.

It's always good to have like, and also like some

companies.

Yeah, it's very missed opportunity because some companies do like 15 seconds and 30 seconds, nothing in between.

It's like 22 seconds, 25 seconds.

Why do they do it then?

Why?

Because that's a template.

Because someone said

in the past, like, you need to have 15 or 30.

Okay, nothing in between.

Yeah, and the creative team is just stuck in the template.

Yeah, exactly.

Come on, guys.

Like, you can actually do 28.

And in some companies, what they do is just to have the 30-second video, they have 20 seconds of gameplay, and then

they prolong the end card for 10 seconds.

It's like,

fuck, yeah, exactly.

Why?

Because we need 30-second videos.

Why?

Oh, because someone said so.

Okay, good.

Thank you very much.

Anyways, but all of these.

So yeah, and this is what I want to show you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, at least.

This is actually quite nice.

How many seconds?

That's AI.

There you go.

Of course, it's AI.

Of course.

So it was kind of nice.

But they have all the different kind of

UA channels, but I still think...

They're 100% mediating on Macs.

Like they're Max Power User Smart.

Oh, I haven't seen that one before.

It's an SSP.

Really?

Okay.

If you want to know what's SSP, go check out Moloco episode we did a couple of weeks ago.

I mean, honestly, it was a really good episode in terms of like the learning the basics.

I thought about

it.

Yeah, and they have a lot of why I showed you the all the Instagram and Facebook placements in the beginning, because they

have like majority of the the traffic coming from Facebook and Instagram.

Apparently, um based on the sensor type data, but they still have the the uploading and Unities and all of the different things.

But if we go

to actual playables only,

it's only uploading, huh?

It's no, it's Mintegraplin.

It's kind of all of the pos

everything, but yeah, majority is uploading, but still Mintegra, it's taking the biggest check spent.

But apparently, on SensorTaver,

for some reason, everything is kind of

attributed to

Mintegraph for some reason.

Almost always.

So, even though it's not true, always.

Yeah, so I mean,

so there's one playable, there's another playable.

So, it's like it's, I would say.

So, I guess Rolek is a casual gaming company these days, huh?

It's not only this, yeah.

Okay.

That's interesting with the brain power increasing, like the impulse or Einstein.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, what it's like, come on, no, no, no, like, just like that's how it works, man.

Smiley on the brain.

It doesn't even look like brain, it looks like some pink whatever.

Yeah, it's a brain.

It's a brain.

It's a brain.

It's a brain.

So

I think

if they could scale this the same way as they did with color block grain, like it's perfect.

It's very satisfying.

It's very easy to, I mean, to use the different angles and different perspectives on the creative side.

I think okay.

I can still play.

Okay.

Ooh.

Okay.

It's much harder and sideways.

Wait, yeah, it's

okay.

And we are the s looking at the same thing.

Yeah, this is nice.

I cannot do it.

Oh my god.

The brain got on LSD this time.

Yeah, this is just like where's the brain?

Look, yeah,

where's the brain looking?

Yeah, but look you know what this oh okay, so it is now fail sorry.

Okay, let's check this one.

Hello.

Oh, it's just an end cart.

Cheese.

Okay.

Well, look, we have only like a couple of playables, so they could do better in this.

I would say also if, you know, you saw the

flower picture and the knitting, so why it's not in this case

in the playables as well?

It's like that's you can do so many different pictures and things with this.

But

they're only getting 87,000 downloads a day right now, right?

Do you really need that many playables with that download scale?

Still, yeah.

I mean, like, wait a second, 87 downloads a day, where do you get that?

Yeah, really.

87,000 or no, less?

20k.

20k.

How much do you think they're spending on that?

A lot.

What do you think a CPI on a game like this would be?

A lot.

That's the thing.

I don't think it's a lot, but they find a lot.

Most probably not close to match 3 at all.

I mean, if match 3 is 30, I I would say this is what I

10

in the states or global?

In the states.

I mean,

that's my assumption.

Non-casual match 3 experienced people.

Still a lot without all the live ops and events in there.

So that's the thing.

Also, collectible albums and all this fun stuff.

Well,

if it's casual.

Of course, yeah, exactly.

But honestly, like, yeah, this the experience, like the UA and the creatives, I was very pleasantly surprised because when we were talking about the twisted tangle, I was like, fucking hell, guys.

Come on, what is this?

But this is great.

Well, I know people at Rolek listen to this podcast, so you know, well done for knocking out.

Great job.

Oh, yeah, great job as always.

I think that's it.

Yeah, we need to hear more from you guys.

Don't worry, we're going to hear more from whole people.

It's going going to be soon.

Oh, yeah.

Every couple of weeks.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Thank you very much for listening.

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