The 4 Generations of Rewarded Ads: Personalization + LiveOps = The Future of Offerwalls

The perfect monetization solution is one that can use that data and show different games that actually perform really well for that particular source.

Automatically.

Exactly.

Okay.

If you have an IAA-based game on UA and you're optimizing for UA for IAA, right?

And that works really well for IAA games on the offer wall, then you want to show more IAA games so that you maximize the users and maximize

the balance from that one.

And if you have a UA channel that is optimized towards IAP and those users are IAP purchasing users and they suddenly want to play a game on the offerwall instead of making a purchase, right?

You want to show them more IAP-based games because that will probably perform better, right?

Okay, so yeah, and if you if you don't have the segmentation and you're buying from all these sources and then you show the offer wall, which is focused on IAA games, to the IIP Rolla Sablovin campaign, it's going to absolutely

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Hello, everybody.

Welcome.

This is a very, very special episode.

I mean, or extra special episode, how do we call how do we call it, Felix?

Because we have Felix and me as hosts, and we have Zeno on the podcast again because there is not enough information about rewarded UA channels and the last episode was actually really popular everybody loved it and also everybody loved the art takes Zeno so welcome back

thanks for having me guys thanks what an honor that you guys uh still like me after the four last goals yeah I mean like we had a really great discussion about the demand side so public or basically advertisers doing UA with these rewarded platforms but today we're gonna focus on a much more interesting topic which is closer to my mind which is essentially the monetization side of this or the supply side of the rewarded ad side.

So, yeah, I'm very excited for this.

This makes the money, right?

That's really the ones I can give the money, the other side makes the money, right?

So,

I like both of them.

Yeah, I like you, how you improved the background and the lighting and everything.

So, now you're closer to us, way, way more closer to us.

Except for you guys, you guys are the real professionals, right?

So, I'm just

following your lead, how you guys did it.

So, I'm just looking at it.

Well, I'm sitting in my daughter's room, so I mean,

so I'm a bit far from there.

But yeah, but it's good.

All right.

So

do we want to go for what the history looks like and how we got here?

Because that's interesting from like multiple different perspectives.

Let's set the mood, you know.

It's 2020, 2014.

Tap Joy is just going to start with this lesson.

Yeah, a good history lesson.

Let's start off with that.

Yeah, cool, guys.

So, you know, the history of awarded monetization was really actually quite a long one.

It's it's quite uh as old as uh as you can say, right?

Giving discounts or giving some ways of rewards to users has been like uh the number one marketing tactic since the beginning, right?

But so you it's basically a a true marketing tactic that always helps with getting people to get value from different demand or different uh products or different items or anything like that.

And we just actually have that model that got copied into the the app world, but it started off very simple actually, right?

So if you think about the old day of rewarded, it was really just the monetization of an offer wall where you can download a game and you get a little reward per install, right?

And why was that monetization tactic so successful?

Why was it actually so good?

It was really just to get higher in the rankings back in the day, right?

Yeah,

and that was the only reason why you had all these reward apps that were just there just to give rewards to users, reward them out to actually just download the game.

And it was a very profitable monetization solution in the beginning.

That's really where like the iron sources really started off in the industry, right?

It was they did offer walls and did boost campaigns, and that was a really big part of what they did.

And that's actually where that's right.

Yeah, free my apps, these kind of things.

And that was like back in the day, it was like the big belief system.

Yeah, and all of these different things.

Yeah, it was the main way to really grow your app because then you could get a lot of organic users because that was where most of the money was made.

But it was also a great way to monetize apps and monetize them.

And that's really where it started off with.

And that's when the dark ages started for the rewarded sizes, right?

That's when everybody was like, oh, rewarded Incent.

It was back then it was called Incent.

We're not supposed to say this word anymore.

It's a no-no word.

Yeah, yeah.

It's a no-no word.

We're not allowed to say that anymore.

And now it's rewarded.

But back then, it was still Incent.

And

the Incent side really was

really blacklisted eventually.

It was really a tactic that most of the way demand partners didn't want to utilize because it didn't have any benefit anymore because the stores didn't allow to grow your app and grow your user base by just sending installs because they didn't use it as a signal anymore only to actually

rank you higher.

So, when that happened, the entire rewarded space basically fell to nothing, and also the monetization solutions fell to nothing.

And if we're really honest here, right?

Like, there was a lot of fraud of those installs.

They weren't really sometimes real, right?

Or what was really going on?

Because you got boosted up the charge, which gave you organics, and that's how the whole thing worked then.

So, I guess it didn't need to be real users, right?

Or

if anybody cared what was happening, where those installs came from, how those installs came forward, right?

Nobody really cared.

At the end of the line, they did these boost campaigns so that they can rank higher in the stores.

That was their main reason really to do it.

But you do have a lot of successful apps that were just rewarding users out just to download different games and not even play them, just download games and you get a reward out of that.

That was back in the day, like 10 years ago, there was still a lot of apps that were there that you don't even see anymore now.

But back then, there was a lot of reward apps back then as well.

So it was an interesting time to see the monetization solutions there, but you also had a a lot of games with a paywall next to it that had an offer wall from like hypnosource or fiber that really allowed them to monetize on those solutions.

And it was very, very good for a lot of those games as well.

Because instead of purchasing something, you just download five games and you get your coins, and you can go.

So, easy, easy, yeah.

But, yeah, that really started evolving into where KPIs started becoming very important for a lot of demand partners, right?

Oh, no, no,

and then some,

right?

So, uh, we had some brave souls in the rewarded side that stayed there and were very hard-headed and that didn't want to give up to it.

So they defined the new structure and that was the single rewards, do something action, like a registration or a deposit or sign up for a subscription or something else.

And that really was

a big part of a lot of

CPA campaigns that still kept that industry really afloat.

And that's where a lot of websites actually monetize their websites and and a lot of other apps that monetize their paywalls by just like instead of doing a pay solution, just do this subscription on Hulu and hey, you get a free subscription with us as well.

So, that's really where that industry from just the install came and then it grew to that single reward

solution, right?

And that eventually that evolved into single reward for games, right?

But then the quality was not so good.

And then eventually, the partners started developing multi-rewards.

And multi-reward is something that that's where it was stuck for,

I think, a good solid four, five, six years until Misplay came around.

I think that was really the first rewarded partner that actually did something innovative.

Can you just explain multi-reward just so people understand?

Yeah, so multi-reward is like you play to level 10, you play it to level 50, you play to level 100, you play to level 200, level 500, right?

You just keep leveling up and you get a little reward as you level up, right?

So, and that was a very effective solution.

And that was for a lot of game companies.

That started becoming one of their UA channels and it became more effective, right?

But it was still not really adopted as a monster.

So maybe offer walls.

And some game companies actually had offer solutions.

And that's really where.

And that was the model where it really stuck for a long time, right?

A really huge amount of time.

Tapjoy was a big leader in that part, right?

In that area.

Fiber as well.

And they built an Iron Source as well.

And then those were really the ones that did the multi-rewards really, really well.

And that was mainly on gaming supply.

So the gaming supply worked really well on that side.

So, um, yeah, and as I said, that's when the solution came into playtime, right?

And the playtime solution, that's the next really big innovation that happened.

And Misplay was the first one, really, to make that happen, right?

That was really the first app that was actually a playtime, and that really showed the opportunity for what there is in terms of gaming and what games can actually do and what the returns can be on that side.

And that really broke up the world of Monstation for the Monetization solutions that are out there now, right?

That's really where our monetization solution uh learned from them but they're the they're the grandfather i'm not gonna deny that right a lot of things that they did well is uh they do well right and they definitely showed a lot of good things but that eventually that moved over to a solution sk solution now that

before we get there just what was the biggest difference with multi-reward and misplay just so our listeners get that right yeah good question so what misplay really did is they started rewarding rewarding on playtime and rewarding on playtime but also personalizing the rewards to the user And they did that on an app level, right?

So it's a very important part.

It's not only playtime is important, but also the personalization for the users.

And so if there's more engaged, they get higher rewards.

And they're less engaged, they get lower rewards.

And they set up that process and they did that very well.

And they found, built their system and their solution really well to get that organized well enough so that it actually generates good ROI for clients.

So iteration one, level-based, iteration two, misplaced, I guess the grandfathers, as you call them, timer-based.

Yeah.

Right.

Okay.

Exactly.

And then the, but that was really on the app level, right?

So there was no really monetization solution, right?

It was like just misplayed.

But they had their app and that was it, right?

But that gave birth to really like, oh, okay, there's a lot of opportunities in the rewarded place.

And that's really where the SDK started evolving into.

And that is really where the SDK landscape is right now and the monetization landscape is right now, is on offer walls that are able to personalize their rewards and pay out personalized rewards to users based on the quality that they provide so that they can meet the right quality kpis for the demand partners and also monetize their users as effectively as possible and that is really where the rewarded space is right now and that's really where it will keep growing more and more and more out from and it really be more of a data-driven solutions right whereas at the beginning you had a single offer there wasn't really any adaptability on that offer right you just had a single reward do this you get a reward right it doesn't matter if you were a female or a male or aged this or that, it didn't matter.

It was always the same reward.

And then you had the offer wall, the multi-reward that basically had the same process, but then more rewards.

So it was easier for the user to actually achieve it.

And then the first personalization came in from misplay.

And that then is what laid the found work of, okay, hey, wait, in reward space, if you really personalize rewards, and you really can personalize that for every individual user, which will result into good results for the client, but also monetize well at the same time.

That is the golden area.

And that is really where data has become the main part of how monetization solutions will now dominate further in the reward space.

So it's the smart monetization solutions that will now dominate and that will now actually be able to provide good value for both the monetization partner, but also the demand partner.

Because without that balance of keeping the demand partner and the monetization partner happy at the same time, you're not going to monetize well because nobody wants to promote on you.

And if you cannot monetize well, you're not going to get enough users to actually monetize and enough revenue out of that, right?

And that's really where the data will come in, and that's really where the monetization solutions are now.

It's a much more data-driven, personalized solutions that you see as offer walls and SDKs that really monetize well.

And that's basically where the history is right now.

There's a little bit of that.

So a recap of what it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So basic, okay, so level-based, timer-based, grandfathers are timer-based.

So how does Adjo fit into this, right?

Because I guess they're the, would they be the daddy then?

But dude,

it's also like playtime kind of oriented as well, no?

So the Android guys really they did very good and they learned a lot from the misplay solution, right?

So they looked at the misplay solution and saw, hey, you know, that looks really good, right?

And why don't we make that into an SDK?

And they were the first ones really to jump in on that

and build on that side.

But their main main model was really on playtime and mainly focus on playtime for the large part of their solution.

So it worked really well on IA-based games and more hybrid games, right?

But their solution was really built from the Misplay solution from what I can see, right?

I can't say for 100% sure, but if you look at how Misplay works and then how Agile works, you could put some kind of connection.

There are some similarities.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, they were actually the first SDK solution that was implementing Playtime.

Yeah.

So they are definitely in that part, right?

And they

don't have to ask then who's your daddy.

So good, we covered that already.

So that's basically like the history, guys, of the reward space, right?

And that's really where the reward space is now.

It's really a heavily personalized reward experience for every user.

And the more personalized you make it and the more you can adjust for on a user level the rewards, the better the monetization solution will work because you can target based on using data, right?

Instead of just showing the user every single offer wall, the same offer wall across the board.

So

if I can ask a question here, so from both an advertiser perspective and a publisher perspective, what is currently wrong with the solutions that exist on the market?

market yeah so a lot of the solutions that are on the market currently are still following the historical model with the multi-awards and um they're using that as their main foundation but as the users you're gonna have some users that are whales right we know that in the terms of of ua right you're gonna have some users that are gonna be dolphins right the small purchasers that they were one dollar or two dollar or five dollar purchase right and you want to make sure that you can maximize the whale's possibilities.

And you want to make sure that you maximize the dolphins' possibilities, right?

And using personalized rewards to engage those users, right?

And engage those users to the maximum that you can, that's really where the market is going.

And that is really what's going to make the difference between a lot of the awarded solutions that are out there.

A lot of them, they don't have those capabilities of personalizing and segmenting their user base in an effective way to actually use that to target that and show that correctly.

So you have a lot of players right now that are out there, right?

A lot of money that's coming in from VCs.

and that's really stimulating that a lot right now and pushing the the market very heavily into a territory that is heavily growth oriented but not really profitability oriented.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

It's uh um an industry that right now is uh being uh subsidized, right?

It's a subsidized industry.

So the the solutions really that you see a lot of out there right now, right?

A lot of them are actually not running profitably from what I can see from what Mike I can see from my side.

So the solution that's going to be actually work well, right, it's going to be profitable for both the demand partner and profitable for the monetization partner and for the company at the same time and that's the the balancing act that's going to be working out right now yeah so I guess that explains why some publishers I've worked with they've gotten some offers from companies in the space to integrate their offer wall in their games and the sums that have been thrown around are kind of staggering or eye-watering is yeah like yeah what's going on there because it doesn't seem like it's sustainable yeah so there's a lot of integration bonuses

Yeah.

It's the new mediation.

Trying to get integrated with publishers, right?

Trying to get them integrated with SK and doing exclusivity on that side, right?

And then giving there's the different solutions that are being thrown around, like revenue guarantees, integration bonuses, skill bonuses, right?

You know, you hear I don't I've heard of so many different deal structures now that I'm like, okay, well, what is actually the most effective one?

But yeah, I have a lot of different partners that are out there that are right now.

They're throwing all kinds of different solutions out there and different amounts out there.

Right.

It's fun to be an admon consultant again, I can tell you that.

Yeah.

So yeah, but there's different structures really.

But in the monetization solutions that are out there now, right, it is very interesting to really be able to understand what is actually a good monetization solution and what is not a good monetization solution, right?

Like if you lit if you look at it from a monetization point of view, right?

You have no way to really know: hey, is one solution good or is one solution bad?

Even if they give you, let's say, an integration bonus or a revenue guarantee, right?

If your users are used to a certain offer wall, right?

What like it's not like it's like switching a rewarded video ad.

Yeah, if you have a rewarded video ad, like if you have one video or another video, right?

We all see the same video ads across the board now.

But an offer wall is a more personalized experience.

It really isn't something that the user gets used to.

It's a user behavior, right?

If you make some changes from one month to the other month, to the other month, to the other month, because you have integration bonuses, right?

It might impact retention, right?

It might impact performance.

So, choosing a good monetization solution is actually extremely important because it's not just a rewarded video ad.

It's not as I can switch from App Loven to Unity Play and then actually

get the same rewarded video ads and about the same experience.

It's a very different experience as well for users.

So, how do you actually choose these different parts?

What should I do then?

I mean, what kind of questions should I ask?

He knows a list what to look for as a publisher.

Yeah, that's fine.

That's good.

We can definitely go into that.

At least I would love to hear.

So to be straightforward, in terms of a rewarded partner, like the rewarded partners that are out there, that are there at the moment, right?

It's really engagement is a huge aspect of these monetization solutions of how well they can potentially engage the user base because that will have a direct impact on your retention and your overall profitability.

So, a good monetization solution, a good offer wall will allow you to be able to get much higher retention from your users that might churn because they don't want to purchase and they get stuck.

So, what is an engaging offerable?

Really, an offer wall that is engaging is one that actually has rewards that are nice and easy for the user to get and not too difficult and doesn't look like a hurdle to get those rewards.

It's actually more gamified, it's more of an experience that actually makes the user feel like, okay, this is just part of the game, right?

It's a little bit different game, game, but that's part of, okay, I'm also incentivized, there's the different things to engage me, and actually

can engage the user to keep engaging with that offer, but also with the app that they're on, right?

Now, that's a little bit vague, right?

So, what does that mean?

What am I actually saying, right?

Just gibberish, or I actually have something to say here.

So, the main thing really is: if you look at games, what makes games engaging, right?

It's the setup that they have is LiveOps, right?

How can they engage users?

what are the biggest game publishers out there that have the most success engaging their users effectively is solutions that have good live ops environments and good live ops setups right deals things that they can do like a current tournament or something else that really engages the users to keep playing those are things that can bring your users back it's new content new things that they can actually see those are things that will actually keep your users engaged right so an offerable solution that has a good live ops environment that can offer deals that can engage users and can help you engage the users and activate the users is an extremely important aspect of a good monetization solution.

And without- Basically, what you're saying is like you need to have an like, for example, when Arbor Day comes along, you need to have an Arbor Day event that basically does a pop-up from the offer wall.

Is that kind of what you mean?

Exactly.

But also, like, why, even if you have a pop-up from the offer wall, what is an incentive for the user just to activate something or play something or start something?

Right?

What is the what can you do to really engage the users that can differentiate you from other games that might not be giving certain specific rewards on particular days, like 4th of July or something else?

So a live ops environment is extremely important because you can engage the right users at the right time and you can push the users to engage and give a special offer that you might not be able to do with rewarded video ads.

And at particular days where the user has more time and more activity that they can do certain things, that's the moment where you want to maximize your monetization, right?

The weekends or the night times or the different times where where the user has more opportunities to actually do certain things, right?

And has the time to actually engage with an offer wall that would one, bring the quality for the client for the demand partner that wants to promote and gets ROI from it, but also at the same time would engage the user so that they monetize enough so that the monetization actually generates enough revenue for the partner monetizing with them.

So LiveOps is one of the most important things to look for when you're evaluating an SDK partner, right?

An SDK partner that doesn't have a good LiveOps environment and doesn't have an environment that can actually engage the user outside of just the general offer wall.

Just ask yourself, right?

There's so many different offer walls.

Why would I engage with this offer wall compared to that offer wall, right?

Unless there's like some kind of special award or something else that can really engage the users to get back and play on those offer walls, right?

If that makes sense.

Yeah, I mean, it makes sense, but I think most offer walls offer this live ops stuff.

So it would surprise you.

Okay.

Not a lot of them actually have a lot of very huge amount of live ops opportunities.

They might have a currency sale or something in that led, right?

So a currency sale was a very traditional way of engaging users, right?

But what about engaging users to download a game for the day or do a tournament, right?

Or make a purchase on any of the games and get a small reward.

Different things that can actually stimulate the behavior of the user that would one benefit the monetization solution partner by generating immediate results by them doing events, but also generate higher quality for the for the for the client so that they can bid that more aggressively on that same placement.

And you'll be surprised there's a lot of SDK solutions and off-wall solutions that do not have a very detailed or a very personalized engagement.

Okay.

Yeah.

What else?

Yeah, we did a lot of offerwall with Eastside Games when I was the admon manager there.

And it's very spiky, like the revenue, right?

And it's always when you have an event, and that's when you find out events that you never really heard of, like Arbor Day.

Yeah, yeah.

But it works, you know?

Yeah.

It does work, yeah.

That works well.

The goal is that if you can really personalize this on the user level and say, okay, these users are the ones that we will really want to engage because those are the ones that maximize the results for you as a MontSation solution, but also the demand partner so that they can bid more aggressively.

That's really where the personalization works on the LiveOps environment because those LiveOps environments are generally just for particular days, right?

Fourth of July event or Harbor Day, right?

That the one that you mentioned.

But if you can personalize this on users and actually segment this on individual users and only do it

on those individual users only and activate them at the same time by push notifications, in-app messaging and other things that are all managed by a monetization solution.

That is really where I see the difference between a

traditional offer wall and one that is actually able to help you maximize the results out of it.

We're talking about Android only or now finally on iOS as well.

Android and iOS.

So iOS recently they became a lot more lax, a lot more easy going with it.

The iOS apps cannot primarily be an offer wall, but they can have some kind of offer wall solutions in it.

Yes.

A lot of games that are actually approved.

we also have our own ios app is a rewards app with shopping and other aspects in it as well yeah

yeah

um yeah but the second thing i would say is really really important and that is something that i've heard a lot from a lot of different monetization partners is really the transparency that a monetization solution can give you

And you mentioned it yourself, Felix.

You said there was like spikes, right?

And you're like figuring out, oh, that's maybe Arbor Day, right?

But maybe you have also experienced drops right that one day your performance one week is really good and the next week it's down by 20 or 30 percent what is actually happening there what is actually that's usually that's usually when the partners went like we need to target more of your payers yeah yeah and that's where the obliqueness and the the fakeness starts and you'll be like okay well okay maybe let's target more of the payers now okay all right um but the what we've seen a lot with a lot of our partners right is that they don't really have the tools to really optimize their offer wall they have maybe a specific code that they can say, okay, I'm going to segment my payers and my non-payers, right?

Or I'm going to do a currency sale.

Really, that's where it stays off and stops.

A good monetization solution is something that can integrate with your UA and actually allow you to optimize the journey of the offer wall based on the sources that you're buying from.

Meaning, if you're buying traffic from App Loven, for example, right?

Or you're buying traffic from Unity or from Google, right?

These users have different user behavior, right?

But they all see the same offerwall currently if you're using a traditional offerwall provider.

But what if you can actually show different user journeys based on the UA channels that they're coming from?

What if you can actually show to the users from Google a different solution that would actually maximize the earnings from your Google campaigns?

Yeah, that's what I would like to do, definitely.

Yeah, you want to make sure that the campaigns that you're having and the UA that you're doing, right, that you're not, if you're starting new UA channels, right, that that might not, that that doesn't hurt overall earnings as an offer.

Let's say you're starting a new traffic source, right?

And this traffic source is horrible quality, right?

But it looks really good from an offerall solution because you're getting a lot of revenue, but the quality is really bad for the demand part, right?

What is going to happen for your Monsters solution?

You're just suddenly going to get a drop of quality and you're going to get campaigns paused.

That's where you're going to get the 20, 30% drop.

And that's when the offer solution is going to tell you, hey, we need to target more payers because they don't actually know where the traffic is coming from.

They don't really know if the Google traffic or the App Loven traffic or the other traffic sources are actually the ones that are providing them the quality that will actually benefit the modestation solution.

Right.

Like, let's say you knew that Ad ROAS campaigns from, like, this group of users came from a Google Ad ROAS campaign and these came from an IAP purchase campaign from App Loven.

How would you ideally or how would you

use

users or group of users?

So let's say you have two different solutions, right?

You're buying, let's say, on the UA perspective.

Let's put it from a UA perspective.

You have like different campaigns running on Google, right?

One is optimized for IAA, one is optimized for IAP, right?

You're targeting, you're trying to use their algorithm to target different user segments, right?

And those different user segments have different behaviors because that's why you're targeting them on that.

behavior, but they're also going to have different behavior on the offer wall itself because one is more focused on IAP, one is more focused on IAA, and one generates more results based on that particular campaign.

So basically, you have different behaviors from those users.

And if you have one user group that has a bad behavior, that can pull down the entire monetization solution by affecting the other segments that actually perform really well on the offer wall.

So let's say you have a campaign that's only focused on installs.

And those users come into the offer wall, they just download something and they don't do anything else.

That's going to be very bad performance.

It looks good, why?

Because maybe you're being paid out on the install.

So your ROI is going to look good, but the quality is actually very bad.

And what the result is, is that you, as a placement, you as an offer wall,

as a source, let's say you have a game, the entire offer wall gets affected, not just the individual source that gets affected.

Sure, but what's the difference on the offer wall side then?

How would you kind of differentiate the offer wall between like that those segments?

Because, of course, like we like the field exams, like we have the campaign for Adros on a Google, which is one segment, and then there's another segment, which is IIP, Applavin, and there's a huge quality difference.

What would the Adros offer wall look like or the solution look like?

And what would the Applaven IIP campaign

overwhelm solution look like?

Cool.

So the perfect monetization solution is one that can use that data and show different games that actually perform really well for that particular source.

Automatically.

Exactly.

Okay.

If you have an IAA-based game on UA and you're optimizing for UA for IAA, right?

And that works really well for IAA games on the overwall.

then you want to show more IAA games so that you maximize the users.

Okay, so that's the difference.

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

And if you have a UA channel that is optimized towards IAP, and those users are IAP purchasing users, and they suddenly want to play a game on the offer wall instead of making a purchase, right?

You want to show them more IAP-based games because that will probably perform better.

Okay, so yeah, and if you if you don't have the segmentation and you're buying from all these sources and then you show the offer wall, which is focused on IAA games, to the IIP ROAS Apple Avin campaign, it's going to absolutely suck.

And it's going to be very damaging.

Okay, okay.

And what's going to happen is on the monetization side, right, you're going to suddenly have a drop of revenue.

And you don't know where this is coming from.

And because also the partners and the monetization partners, they're not very, they don't really want to showcase the data, like, hey, this campaign got paused.

That's why the performance is going lower, right?

And a good monetization solution is really your partner.

It's really someone that, hey, you know, I saw my revenue drop by 20 or 30%.

What's really going on?

Can you look at it from your side?

And it can give you answers and tell you, like, yeah, we saw a new source that you activated, right?

It's this source and they're bringing really low performance, right?

I would suggest not to show these games to the offerwall, not to these sources.

So it doesn't affect your overall monetization solutions.

And it doesn't affect the overall monetization impact that the good sources are having.

And that's very important because we've talked with many different game partners and different offerwall solutions, right?

And they have sometimes very good months, one, two, three months, good months.

And suddenly they have a 20, 30, 40, 50% drop in revenue.

And then they're like, where is it coming from?

And if you don't have answers, how can you fix it?

If you're never going to get an answer of where the results are bad or where the channel is actually causing that, there's no way to really fix that and get out of that.

So that's an important second point.

So third and final really is the personalization of the offer wall and really engaging the user in the offer itself.

So we have the LiveOps environment to engage the users and get them activated.

We have the media source data that it can be used.

to optimize on and really make sure that it doesn't impact your overall performance.

And the third part is really the personalization where you can gamify the experience for the users

by when they are more engaged with offers on the offer wall, that they get higher rewards automatically.

And it's not a general offer wall that you have level 10, level 50, level 100, level 200, level 500, that everybody has the same reward.

No, you want to offer the users that are going to bring more value for the client higher rewards and more engaging rewards and maybe leveling systems or anything else to actually engage the users to maximize their engagement with the offer wall so that then the advertiser will be more comfortable with bidding more aggressively and monetizing also better.

So the hyper personalization of the offer wall is an extremely important part, right?

How to personalize the rewards for every user that comes onto the offer wall.

How does that monetization solution do that, right?

And if you have good answers on these points, that gives you all the tools really to maximize the possibilities of a monetization partner and a monetization solution.

So those are really really the three points that I would say that are very important for any Monster solution to have at this time and at this moment in the market.

Can I add one?

Yeah, sure, good.

Four, aesthetics.

Some of these offer walls look like absolute shit.

It looks like from like the Windows 95.

Yeah,

95.

But Zina, then, what are your answers to all of these questions?

The answers from your...

Let's do the old mister.

Yeah, good, good, good question.

Yeah.

So, on our solution, we actually launched our version three of our SDK.

And this is something that,

if I look a little bit at the history of our SDK version, right?

Version one was a single reward solution that we had.

Version two is where we had multi-rewards and playtime integrated.

And version three is where we have built a hyper-personalization for every individual user, LiveOps implementation, and then also the implementation of being able to send us all the data that you have, media media source data, and allowing to customize every single journey that you have, engage users from different sources, media sources, all from our LiveOps environment, all from that solution within one month station solution, right?

So we basically built.

How does that work like from the like where are you getting the data from?

Are you communicating with the MMP SDK or like directly from the game?

Or like how does that

kind of data?

When you start off the offer wall, right?

You can actually send us that data.

It usually comes directly from the device.

You just send it straight towards the Okay, okay, okay, okay.

We actually receive it and we can personalize the offer wall all the way to the creative level.

So let's say you're promoting on five or ten different creatives, right?

And one is focused on social casino, one is focused on like strategy games or anything else.

We can personalize it on the creative level.

So we can see based on the data, and the more data you provide us, you can see the channel level, you can see if it's incentivized traffic or not, and all of that data we can use and that will be fed into our machine learning system that that basically recommends based on those on those media sources yeah personalized offer fees nice so if you get app loving traffic if you buy from unity or you buy from google everything is personalized to the dot that maximizes based on the quality for the client and that's automatically done there's nothing that you have to do manually right because who wants to do manual things in

twenty twenty five yeah yeah nobody nobody so yeah it's all personalized based on that data.

So the more data that we get, we actually are able to blacklist or whitelist on that manually, manually, but we focus more on the actual setup of personalizing this with machine learning.

So,

yeah, that's a huge aspect for us, what we think is very, very important.

I'm only waiting when you say AI and we are done.

You need to say AI for the investors, you know, otherwise you're not going to get any investment.

Yeah,

that's AI, everything.

Even the creatives were designed by AI.

Yeah.

But yeah, that's really where on our side, we took about a a year time to really look at all the feedback that we got from our clients.

And our clients have been amazing being able to give us a lot of feedback in terms of what they think of the rewarded space.

One of the major problems that we saw from a lot of our clients was that long-term progression was not good.

And a lot of clients were complaining, like, okay, hey, is this the

second dark ages coming for the rewarded space?

Or is there actually a new opportunity coming where a lot of growth can be happening?

And that's where I see the solution that we've built to be able to allow personalizing those rewards, engaging them with live ops and customizing the journey with our media source data as a solution to be able to customize everything to the dot and powering that with machine learning to actually make that happen and possible.

Because doing that manually would be impossible.

So this is the fourth generation then of rewarded.

Would you say?

Where is it fifth?

Or fourth?

Fourth.

Maybe one day I'll be the grandfather.

Yeah.

What does this look like?

Do you have any examples?

Because big words, I'd love to see what it actually looks like.

Show an example.

Of course.

So let me actually.

We love examples and we love visual stuff on our podcast.

So, yeah, if you have anything to show, please do.

So, I shared a quick few slides, not to make it too long.

Our slides normally is like 20 or 30 slides, so I did it a little bit easier.

Let me see my

screen.

If I can share this,

one second, guys.

Or yeah, we'll cut it out.

Nice, yeah, okay.

Let me see.

It's blue.

Yeah, we can see it.

Yes, we can see.

Awesome.

So basically, what we have here is the update.

So we actually took a lot of time to update everything from scratch, but also make it possible that we can make very quick updates and new feature releases without actually having to update the SDK.

So it's a one-time integration and you integrate it and everything will be available and also all new features will be available for you right away.

You don't have to invest more tech resources to actually update it.

And that's something that was very important for us because we saw that integrating an SDK is one thing, but then you also have to update it sometimes when it gets updates, right?

And we want to remove that step altogether.

So we took more time so that everything actually can just be updated, integrated once, and you never have to update it again.

And we basically have the design.

This can be fully customized, right, to your look and feel.

So you have the header.

If you want to make that blue, if you want to make that black, or you want to make that light blue, you can change that.

You can change the premium colors that we have.

And you can change the button colors.

So basically, a majority of the colors you can make towards your local brand and really brand it for yourself.

And we highlighted this premium section, which is really the games that we want to have the users to focus on.

And we have different opportunities that we actually have that you can integrate as thumbnails that you can actually integrate into your app in different locations, like a top five offer list or something else to engage the users.

And basically, this is what our old offer wall looked like.

So it was a really, really ugly offer wall.

Come on.

I've seen way worse.

This looks good.

Thank you.

They're worse ones.

You're less critical than me.

So, yeah, we actually updated this from version two to version three.

With that, we basically made these updates.

And one of the main parts is really the live ops environment that we implemented.

So, as I highlighted,

is something that we spent a lot of time on on our side is that we can actually reward the user at any time, at any core day, with any moment of the user's engagement.

So, let's say they installed today or three months ago, I can still make limited-time offers to keep the users in.

This is really cool.

This is really good.

So basically, just to clarify, like you, like I have a game, XYZ game, and then I install this offer wall.

And this is essentially what the users see if they click on the offer wall.

Yeah, basically.

If they activate their game, right, this is basically the first thing that they will see on their side.

And we can actually engage them with these hot deals, right?

And these hot deals are basically rewards that are outside the normal reward structure that you have, right?

You have the normal multi-reward structure and playtime, but these are like hot deals that we can use to engage those users at any time, right?

So, let's say we see that the user is churning, we can automatically engage those users with our limited time offer solution and get them back into the offerable and back into the game and actually engage those users, right?

So, let's say you have a quality issue or something else that's happening, right?

Instead of the monetization solution coming to you, hey, we need to target more purchasing users, we can do that from our solution and we can engage those users for you and help you out to actually engage them and activate them with limited time offer, like download the game, open the game a little bit and play maybe to level 10 or make a small purchase.

And that can be done from our solution fully built in.

So you don't actually have to do that from your site.

We can even send the push notifications and the in-app messaging.

That can all be done from the reward solution itself.

So this is a important feature.

This took a long time just to be able to give that versatility in there.

And we see a lot of good results already with this.

So since we've been launching it and we've been testing this out, especially with early KPIs for our UA partners, we're seeing like a three or four times increase in early KPIs, but also on longer-term engagement, we're also able to get those users back and engage for those longer-term cohorts, which we know is important for the UA side.

And then this is basically the active offer section, right?

So this is basically how it used to look, right?

And what we try to do is we truly try to make it into more of a storage format.

So we have the hot deals section, right?

That's really the LiveOps environment.

But this is really the area that we can use where the user will see all of their active tasks, their daily rewards, see their overall earnings that they have, and basically see everything that they need to do so that they can actually progress into the game.

And we wanted to make it very clear: like, if there's some task that is

getting to the next time limit, right, that you can see, hey, complete this within this time frame so that you don't get user complaints, right?

So, we wanted to make everything crystal clear for the user's perspective.

Whereas in the past, it wasn't very clear, you didn't really know what campaigns were showing what or what was happening on that side, and we wanted to make that user experience just that much better and easy to navigate.

Spicy question: How do you know this SDK 3.0 is going to perform better than 2.0?

Have you done any tests or like user feedback or anything?

Because I mean, it looks way better, but will it convert better?

Yeah, so everything is A-B testing with us.

So everything we test out, we do on our own rewards apps first.

Nice.

We've tested everything and tried this out.

It took us about a year to develop all of this, right?

And why did it take a year to develop all of this?

It's really that we test it out a lot, right?

This button here, making sure that this button actually shows correctly.

We don't get user complaints from this.

Okay, that's really, we spend a lot of time just on making sure that, hey, is everything really clear for the user, right?

That's amazing.

We know that if something is not clear on an offer wall, the first thing that the user is going to do is give you a one-star review, right?

Yeah, like, bye-bye.

See you next.

So, see you next.

We want to make sure everything is crystal clear.

That was very important for us, and that's why we took so much time to really try to make this as clear as possible and really test out: if we have this design, how many support tickets do we get?

It's not only does it monetize well,

but also that part.

That was exactly the answer I was hoping to get.

So

that's amazing.

Yeah, so listeners, dear listeners, A-B test fucking everything.

This is very important.

This is very important.

Like, this is also like data-driven decisions.

Not like, oh, wait, this looks better because I feel so.

No, you need data.

Okay.

So I guess the next slide is going to say $1,000 ECPM in the States.

Well, I think that's what most of the offer walls say, right?

Yeah.

Also, I think all of them have the same message on their website, right?

With personalization, they can actually achieve higher than that.

It's something that with the right personalization and showing the right campaigns to the right users at the right time, you can actually get much higher than that.

So we've seen on our site with our own app about in the 2000 range for our CPMs.

That is something that we, you know, with personalization, this offer wall solution just gets better and better and better, right?

Because you show only to the right users at the right time, right?

So the chance that they're going to be, that the advertiser is going to be happy and bid more is only going to increase on that side.

So the next one is really the new offer details.

So this is really what I highlighted on our side is really the personalization of the offers, right?

So what you can see here right now is that we have a leveling system that is built directly into our off-wall solutions.

And that leveling system basically allows us to reward users and give them bonuses based on the individual user basis, right?

So let's say that individual user is playing the games more, they actually get a level up and they get higher bonuses.

So it gamifies the experience for the users so that when they do more things in the app, they purchase it, they make purchases, they're more active they get increased rewards from that and also level up and what we focus on on our side is not only to be able to have this leveling system but this leveling system can actually be dynamic for different users so we can actually show to one user one leveling system and to another user another leveling system and what we try to do with that is we try to see what leveling system actually engages the users more to purchase more to be more active and to be more engaged and we do different segmentations of that and that gets not only a tested, it gets to get like three, four, five times to 10 times different solutions tested at the same time so that we can actually see what's actually engaging the users more with what type of reward level and leveling system.

So we can customize this on

the offer wall, not only what the games that they see, but also what the offer structure will be and the reward structure will be.

All these different things that are really hyper-personalized in the offer wall itself that allow us to really tailor the view to that particular user.

And that's something that is very difficult, but super super cool right i super super cool to be able to do that and i guess like fundamentally right this looks really good right but right now what would you say would be the main criteria for your game that you need to have for like offer walls to actually make sense as a monetization solution like you're not going to be working with voodoo for like yeah yeah that's a great question so the why is really the most important part of this why would i actually want to do

a

why would i actually want to try to get the reward if you're there's there's not a clear why from the user's perspective, it can look amazing, but the user is not going to do anything on it, right?

So, the incentive is super, super important to be able to monetize correctly on it, right?

So, if you have a hyper-personalized IAA-based game, yeah, that of a hyper-casual IAA-based game, what is the incentive for the user to actually engage with an offer well?

They can just watch a rewarded video ad and they're going to get their next level opportunity and go further from there.

It's not really going to monetize well.

But for apps that are IAP-based or hybrid, the incentive becomes larger because instead of purchasing something or playing or buying something, some users will just drop off.

Now they can actually engage with the games and play those games and get their coins and their rewards on their game just by playing other games.

And that's really where the monetization solution will have a big impact.

If you have a monetization stack where the user is more incentivized to actually engage with an off-wall, so IAP-based games or paywall solutions or other things, then an off-wall solution like a monetization suicis could work really, really, really well.

And that's where you can segment your users and say, okay, hey, I don't want to send my wheels here.

I only want to send the users, the non-payers, and maybe some dolphins, right?

And try to maximize the value out of those because normally they don't purchase that much, right?

Push those users to get the maximum out of their monetization stack.

So an IAP-based game or a rewarded app, right?

These kind of solutions work really, really well with a monetization switch like this.

Nice.

Okay.

And then is there like a requirement on the size of the DAUs or MAUs or like it doesn't really matter that much?

Yeah, of course, like the more DAU, the more happy I get, right?

I mean, of course, yeah, yeah.

But

no,

it's really important.

If you're very small, right?

Let's say don't start with an off-law solution right from the get-go.

It's your IAP-based users are always going to be your biggest

monetization opportunity, right so making sure that you monetize your iap based users and making that to a near profitability or profitability from a ua perspective is going to be of course very very important this is a really an add-on to maximize your monetization how i would see it if you start with it it's it's it might just be too it wouldn't be the best solution to start off with this right especially on the beginning phase unless you want to try it right of course but i think making your game work well for iap would be your first objective and once you get that and then you want to maximize the earning for a particular publisher that's when, from your monetization stack, that's really where an offer wall comes in and fits perfectly into the mix.

So just so our listeners get an idea of perspective, right?

What's the average revenue share of the clients that you work with that you contribute to their overall revenue?

Is it 10%, 20%, 5%?

So it really depends on...

the genre.

So what I mean on the category.

So if it's a rewarded app, right, we have quite a high percentage of that, of course.

But if you're looking at a game, right, it can range from five percent to thirty percent of the revenue.

So, um, that's really where it depends how you engage the users, really, and how you can get the users to actually engage with an off-wall solution and how much impact of that will have on in terms of percentage.

But yeah, it can definitely have a good percentage impact of it.

Yeah, how can we implement it into all the games that we manage?

Should we just drop you an email?

Yeah, just drop me an email.

Who's your daddy at?

Yeah, who's your daddy at your ads, right?

The new grandfather, right?

Yeah, new grandfather.

Grandpoppy, grandpoppy at Tirads.

No, but that's basically, you can always reach out towards me and I can connect you with my team.

So my email is, you know, at tearads.com.

On LinkedIn, you can also find me.

I usually answer to all my LinkedIn messages, especially if there's opportunities on that site.

So reaching out to me on LinkedIn or reaching me out on my email, all are opportunities really to get the most to allow us to help you monetize your solutions.

And yeah, that's it.

Nice.

Perfect.

Awesome.

Thank you very much, Gino, for coming again on the podcast.

Dear listeners, you heard it all.

If you have any questions, please either reach out to Gino on LinkedIn or put the email into the show notes, also with some other links.

And also, yeah, questions, comment sections, it's all for you guys.

So please ask there, comment if you like it or not.

Join the Slack channel.

And I think see you next time.

Thank you very much.

See you next time, guys.

Thank you so much, man.

All right, thank you, man.

Bye, guys.

Cheers.