190: We're All Spiraling..

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Speaker 2 Okay. Oh my God.
I got a DM today

Speaker 2 that was someone who I guess I went to high school with, which I don't know this. He was like, I walked in on my wife watching you on two hot takes this morning.

Speaker 1 And I was like, cool.

Speaker 1 I didn't say anything. It was like

Speaker 1 in your head.

Speaker 2 But I was like, that's so funny because I'm getting ready to go on two hot takes today.

Speaker 1 Again, today. She's back, y'all.
She's back.

Speaker 1 We have Michaela Oakland in the studio today on another episode of Two Hot Takes with me, your host Morgan. Hi.

Speaker 1 Hello.

Speaker 1 Here we go. We've had, we just had like such a little tea session before this.

Speaker 2 Such a tea session before this. And it's like, we do need to start, but also this is really important.

Speaker 1 It's very healing.

Speaker 1 It's very healing for me.

Speaker 1 I'm so excited to get into this. But because of that tea session, I feel like the theme is even like more on point.

Speaker 1 It's like, I'm spiraling. Okay.

Speaker 1 Girl, I'm spiraling. Like all of these stories, I just like, I read, I read a couple of them.
Some are blind reactions today, but I read most of them and it was like, I'm spiraling.

Speaker 1 I'm spiraling for OP or like the person that was wronged in this situation.

Speaker 2 That was me listening to you 10 minutes ago.

Speaker 1 Spiraling.

Speaker 2 And if I were you, I would be spiraling. I know.
But you're brave.

Speaker 1 I am brave. I am enough.
I'm strong.

Speaker 1 No, it's all good. Life has a lot of amazing things in store.
So it's like one little

Speaker 1 hiccup. You know, it's all good.

Speaker 2 It's all good. And now you know.

Speaker 1 And now you know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 How have you been?

Speaker 2 I've been amazing. I've been having so much fun.

Speaker 1 You are just the cutest online. I just live vicariously through all your photos you post.

Speaker 2 Well, you know how I was like clinically depressed until the age of 25 and then my lobe developed and now all of a sudden I'm not depressed anymore. So weird.
So weird.

Speaker 2 So now I feel like I appreciate the fact that I'm not miserable so much every day.

Speaker 1 That must be beautiful. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You really see like the change.

Speaker 1 I've been really trying to be glass half full.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I've really took a positive turn and put a lot of intent into that. Yeah.
And practicing gratitude, which that has been a big game changer as well.

Speaker 2 I think gratitude journal is so important because I, when I was younger, I think this is still the case. It's very cool to be negative, very cool to be irony,

Speaker 2 poisoned. And I sometimes see teenagers on like Twitter or wherever it be being negative as like kind of a bit and just sort of the way that they talk.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, it is funny, but also it is poisoning your brain to think that way. Like frame the world that way, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 We are also working on a seasonal depression episode that's kind of geared towards like kind of this conversation in a sense, like positive changes and like people struggling.

Speaker 1 Someone suggested it to me in the comments of the YouTube episode today. And I'm like, okay, I like this.
I'm going to see where I go with it. But it's an important conversation to have.

Speaker 1 Like this episode is coming out after the election.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 And we don't know the outcome, obviously.

Speaker 2 Like, wait, so when this comes out, we'll know the outcome. That's so scary.

Speaker 1 Wait, why am I so scary? I know. I'm terrified.

Speaker 2 And it is Halloween when we're recording this. So that is, it kind of goes together scary.

Speaker 1 Everything's scary. Scary.
Scary. So, I mean, depending on how things go, like a lot of us out there could be going through it.
Going through it. Like, I, I,

Speaker 1 I remember a couple elections ago, I sat there bawling my eyes out.

Speaker 2 What was it? 2016. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so I'm just, it is a scary time. It feels really heavy and big in our country.
And so depending on how things went, like, I hope everyone is doing well.

Speaker 1 I hope everyone is like checking in with themselves.

Speaker 1 Tensions are so high.

Speaker 2 Like, and depending on what your family members think, tensions could be strong with your family members.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a lot. It could be a lot.
Going through. So hang in there, practice gratitude, be positive, glass half full.

Speaker 2 And you can take a moment to be sad. Always take a moment to feel the sadness.
You know, feel what you're feeling. Don't avoid it, but then bury it.

Speaker 2 But then after that, after that, be like, but what's

Speaker 2 good?

Speaker 1 What's good? Wait, wait a minute. What's good?

Speaker 1 We're going to be in the comments of this episode like, never mind.

Speaker 1 The fucking song.

Speaker 1 Depending on how things go, we will definitely be spiraling then, maybe too.

Speaker 1 Oh, God. Okay, let's get into these stories, shall we? So, ready, yeah.
Ready to spiral. Let's dive in.

Speaker 1 Our very first story today. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right-eyed, bushy-tailed.

Speaker 1 Bright-eyed and bushy-tailed.

Speaker 1 It's coming from r/slash, am I wrong, eight hours old. Oh, wow.
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. Kicking us off on a recent note.

Speaker 1 My fiancé, 27 male, asked me, 26 female, to sell my investments for his pilot training. Am I being unfair for refusing? Is this a stupid decision?

Speaker 1 My fiancé, 27 male, and I, 26 female, are getting married next year. We've been together for four years and have a joint account.

Speaker 1 Both of us are working full-time right now, but he is trying to get into flight school to become a pilot, which would cost around $94K.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. We discussed how we can finance it.
We have financial help from our parents with our wedding, fortunately.

Speaker 1 We realized if we use our current savings and try to save every penny for like 10 more months, we would not need a very huge loan, just a reasonable amount, with maybe $2K in interest rates.

Speaker 1 If we save longer and try to side hustle, and if I get a raise, maybe we would not even need a loan at all.

Speaker 1 Right after that, he told me he knows how we could finance it without a loan and without living scarcely for the next few months. If I sell all of my investments,

Speaker 1 I have currently 40K in investments, which I started years before I met him, and stopped investing after I met him.

Speaker 1 These were savings from summer jobs, internships, money presents from relatives, which have grown very well due to investing. I have never been a big spender.

Speaker 1 I never planned on touching this money unless it is for an emergency or a down payment for a flat or house, so I refused.

Speaker 1 I told him I would only maybe sell 10K, but I do not see the point since we could afford it by working and saving two but i did not know if that is wrong from me since we are getting married soon but it just feels wrong and i take great reassurance is that the right word in having these investments ready for emergencies or for a potential house investment and what happens if i lose my job during this pilot training then the 40k investments would act like a safety net little backstory to evaluate if i am being fair or unfair I completed a very expensive master's, still not even a third of Pilot Academy, which my parents paid for, fortunately.

Speaker 1 We did a long-distance relationship during that, and he occasionally paid for my or his flights before we had a joint account.

Speaker 1 While I was only studying during my master's, we paid for groceries, etc., from his salary and a small budget my parents gave him. His parents' support is sometimes there, sometimes not.

Speaker 1 Example, they paid for his sister's private education, but refused to pay anything for my fiancé's education in the past.

Speaker 1 Also, he owns a flat in his home country, which does not have a good economy, that I helped renovate a lot. He always told me everything he owns is mine as well.

Speaker 1 And that is true as far as we use the rent, which is not much, like 300 euros to help pay for groceries.

Speaker 1 However, when it came to the decision to rent the flat out to his sister, he completely went against what I said.

Speaker 1 I was against it since she had lived there before and completely trashed the place and damaged many things. My boyfriend and her were constantly fighting.

Speaker 1 I think it is fair since it's his flat, so he should have the last say.

Speaker 1 But then again, I do not really think he fulfills his promise of everything he owns is mine too, because he did not respect my input. So, what's your opinion? Am I being unfair to him?

Speaker 1 Is this a stupid financial decision?

Speaker 2 Or is it already generous of me to pay for his education from my salary and our savings so far she has done nothing wrong in this situation how is she spiraling I'm spiraling because she's spiraling because this is crazy this is crazy like she is already offering to help pay for it it's not an issue of her not helping him out which is a very nice thing for her to do I mean obviously They're not married yet, right?

Speaker 2 They're almost, they're like fiancés.

Speaker 1 Getting married next year.

Speaker 2 Getting married soon. So like they are at that point where they share burdens and stuff.
But yeah, like she said, he's gonna, to, he doesn't have a job yet. He's going to be training for a job.

Speaker 2 Her having savings is like an incredible thing. And him just being like, we wouldn't have to live scarcely for the next few months.
Like this is a sacrifice she's willing to make for you.

Speaker 1 For you.

Speaker 2 And you're like, but I don't want to have to live scarcely for a month. Let's just use your investments, your save, like from her whole life.
It's amazing that she has 40,000 in investment.

Speaker 2 That's huge. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That is huge. And it's like, that's 40K just in investments.
And then there's the savings. So it's like she's willing to give up her savings that she's worked really hard for.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you didn't help pay for her masters. So why is she helping pay for your pilot's training? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And if she doesn't touch that, that could be the retirement. It just seems stupid.

Speaker 1 It's goofy, especially because you can do it without touching it. Yeah.
So it's like, oh, no, I don't want to do that.

Speaker 1 I would rather use your investments and not have to live scarcely and not have to sacrifice things I love and blah, blah, blah, which I get, right? Like that's the ideal world. But like, this is

Speaker 1 your dream and it's something for you. And I fully understand like a lot of people, you know, even listening might be in the boat of like, no, once you get married, life should be 50-50.

Speaker 2 Like, but she is helping him out.

Speaker 1 She's helping him out.

Speaker 2 She is financially helping him out.

Speaker 1 She's, it almost sounds like she's splitting it with him. And not in the way exactly that he wants.
Right.

Speaker 2 She's using her savings, her salary, and is willing to use 10K of her investments. She is willing to do quite a bit for his pilot school.

Speaker 1 Well, and I feel like only paying $2,000 for a loan to be able to go to school is amazing. Yeah, that's incredible.
I checked in on my student loans the other day. Oh, no, I can't do that.

Speaker 1 I'm like making payments. And I'm like, how does anyone pay these off if all you're doing is paying towards the interest? That's so fucked up.

Speaker 1 Like, so I'm like, I'm, I'm one, fuck student loans, fuck Mailnet.

Speaker 1 Like, we should not be charging students, people trying to better their lives, interest on things that you almost make a requirement now to live. Yeah.
Fuck that.

Speaker 1 So I hear 2K and I'm like, that sounds great. That sounds amazing that you have a partner paying half of your education because, yes, that does better your life and all of this.

Speaker 1 But like, I don't know if this is just me getting some red flags from him, but I almost want her to like get a prenup and put those investment accounts. Yeah.

Speaker 1 as like premarital assets that like he never has access to. I don't know why.

Speaker 2 I'm just getting a really-suspicious because, like, I do think she's already offering so much,

Speaker 2 like, I'll say it again, saving salary and 10K of her personal investments from her whole life, and they're not even married yet.

Speaker 1 So, it is

Speaker 2 very surprising to me that he's not more grateful, and he's not more, like, oh, it's amazing that you're willing to do that much for me. Even I don't even want to take anything from your investments.

Speaker 2 Like, that's something you've worked for for so long. Like, that's a smart thing that you did.
And, and we just should

Speaker 2 still live lavishly and use your investment. Like, that's just also stupid.
That's not a very smart way to live financially.

Speaker 1 And I'm also curious, like, okay, great. Like, say we did take out all this money from my investments.
Are you going to then put the 40K back first?

Speaker 1 Like, you start, you make it through pilot school, or maybe you don't make it through pilot school. What is the repayment plan on my investments? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, I feel like that should be paid back.

Speaker 2 But he doesn't sound like someone who would invest because he clearly doesn't see the value of it.

Speaker 1 I'm just getting really bad vibes. And I know this is like the goofiest story to get bad vibes about, but no, I feel that.

Speaker 2 It's surprising to me. It's odd.
It's odd to like expect

Speaker 2 so much more than they're already doing for you from your partner. And the fact that like it's what, $200 a month from his rental property and he isn't even treating that 50-50 with her.

Speaker 2 It just feels like it's not an even partnership. It doesn't seem like they're willing to do the same types of things and make the same types of sacrifices for each other.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm not getting that at all.

Speaker 2 He's expecting a lot more sacrifice from her.

Speaker 1 I think he's like, I wonder if he feels like he's marrying into money and is maybe taking advantage of that. Like he's marrying someone who, I mean, her parents are, they paid for her masters.

Speaker 1 They're paying for their wedding. Right.
Like, I wonder if he's kind of like, I got myself a sugar mama.

Speaker 2 Maybe, but didn't, isn't his family also do, like, he owns property and he, and his parents paid for his sister's private education.

Speaker 1 Didn't help with

Speaker 1 his because he's bad with money. I don't know.
That's my, that's that's your talk. That's your thought on it.
Top comment, he has no right to any of your money, especially if you're not married.

Speaker 1 And not even when you are. Depending on where they live, that's not necessarily true, though.

Speaker 2 I like always want to be positive and say, you know, trust people, you're engaged, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 But it is scary to me when someone's like, spend all of this money investing in me before we're married. And like, we'll get married next year, but this year, put all of this money into my education.

Speaker 2 Like that, that is puts warning bells on my head. I don't know if I'm jaded and that shouldn't be.

Speaker 1 Call me jaded, girl. Call me jaded.
My head's there.

Speaker 2 That's scary.

Speaker 1 I'm with you.

Speaker 2 And I've seen so many things where like.

Speaker 2 Someone is helping pay off someone's mortgage and then they break up and like now that one person has the house and the other person has nothing to show for it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it, it just, it's stress. It's scary.

Speaker 2 I'd be interested to see, like, a year from now if they actually do get married.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would too. I'm curious if there's an update on this one.
I haven't looked. So, the comment goes on to say: flight school is very difficult, and he may not even make it through.

Speaker 1 What happens then? How is his health? OP responds, thank you for your comment. It's nice to see all of these reassuring comments.
His health is very good, and I'm 100% sure he can do it.

Speaker 1 He has managed so many difficult things in his life. He was even at special force at military trainings, where only 10% 10% make it through.
I mean, the other do not die. They just quit training.

Speaker 1 And the person who originally commented goes, I get it. My husband is currently trying to get his commercial license.
It is a lot. If you think he can do it, awesome.

Speaker 1 But considering he's achieved so much and battled the difficulties thus far, waiting a little longer and working a bit harder for himself will make him value it even more.

Speaker 1 The casual suggestion of using your money for his benefit is really putting me off, though. Don't do this.

Speaker 2 Also, if he's so used to hard situations, why can't he do three months where they live without spending much money? Why can't he live scarcely for a few months then?

Speaker 1 Also, it's like, okay, well, you can't go to the pub with your friends. Like, what are you really cutting back on to make your dream come true?

Speaker 2 Maybe some extra streaming accounts,

Speaker 2 some Hulu, Disney Plus, have to cut those out, have to really only stick to Netflix for a few months. I don't know.
Doesn't sound like they're going to be homeless for a few months.

Speaker 2 They're just not going to be living crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's a that's very scary to me.

Speaker 1 It is. And I'm glad that that person was like, What are they? What's the words they use? It's really putting me off.
Same. It's putting me off.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And to like, the priorities are so whack.

Speaker 2 Like you would think her financial security and like what she's worked so hard for would be a higher priority to him than like, yeah, post-mating for the next few months.

Speaker 1 I really want to know what he doesn't want to cut back on. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So many comments. Do not give him your investments.
Do not.

Speaker 1 I got money after my mom died, and my husband has tried everything he can to get his hands on it. Had I known he was going to act this way, I never would have gone through with the wedding.

Speaker 1 The fact that your fiancé is asking before the wedding is a huge red flag. You need to figure out a way those investments are protected after the marriage.
Do you have a financial advisor?

Speaker 1 I would contact them and seek their guidance on how to protect yourself and your investments. Prenup.

Speaker 1 Prenup. I agree.

Speaker 2 and if he does not want to do a prenup i think that's very telling i don't think it's like completely up for her to help him financially but like to this extent is what is so

Speaker 2 insane to me like putting her in a deficit for it when that's not necessary it's almost like he wants her to not be financially secure yeah

Speaker 2 I don't know. I don't like it.
It's it's spooky.

Speaker 1 He's giving Gold Digger.

Speaker 1 We do have a little context from OP though based on a comment um that's not how it goes in my home country fortunately in my home country the rule regarding wealth owned before marriage is different everything owned before marriage only belongs to the person who owned it before marriage well and he's trying to cut out money she has before marriage and then

Speaker 1 I wonder if that's the whole thing because he knows because he knows he'll never have access to it actually. Yeah.
No matter what. So he's like, I don't want to use my own savings.

Speaker 1 I want to use the investment money.

Speaker 2 That's literally the perfect situation: use all the money she has before marriage to invest in your future.

Speaker 1 Bad vibes. I'm spiraling.

Speaker 2 Ah! Oh, I don't like it. It's like it could be, it could be just off-putting and bad, or it could be something much darker.

Speaker 1 I think this is nefarious. I'm getting nefarious vibes.

Speaker 2 On this holiday eve.

Speaker 2 On the well, no, it's called it's on this Halloween.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Spooky.
Spooky.

Speaker 1 I got my my dad calling me, but you know, we got another story to get to. So

Speaker 1 sorry. Moving along.

Speaker 1 Coming from our very own Too How Takes subreddit, eight hours old.

Speaker 2 Sometimes when you're about to tell a story, you get this really suspicious look on your face.

Speaker 1 I know, because I never know which way I'm going to go. And then I just like kind of pick the tab and it's like, am I about to torture someone?

Speaker 1 So it is titled, Mother-in-Law Thinks I Am a Witch because I dressed up as one for Halloween.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 I married my husband about a year ago, and we've been together for about three years.

Speaker 1 I don't know his parents all too well, mainly because he has made a point to keep a fair amount of distance from them. Okay.

Speaker 1 But during all of the wedding planning and events, I thought it would be nice to be closer with them, especially as both of my parents have passed away several years ago.

Speaker 1 I encouraged my husband to build more of a relationship with them. However, around the time of the wedding, I started to see a bunch of red flags.

Speaker 1 It generally chalked them up to wedding stress on their part. My husband is their only son.
But after the wedding, the red flags started getting even bigger.

Speaker 1 I was still nothing but kind towards them, but my husband was frustrated and started going low contact with them. So that's the backstory.

Speaker 1 Now, on Saturday, my husband and I went to a friend's birthday party, which was Halloween-themed, and costumes were mandatory.

Speaker 1 We both got too busy with work, And at last minute, the only costume we could pull together was him wearing a t-shirt that said, I'm with the witch, and me wearing a black dress I already owned with a black choker necklace.

Speaker 1 That's it, you guys. The extent of our costume.

Speaker 1 We took a picture at this party and it was put on the socials.

Speaker 1 The next day, mother-in-law texts hubby and I a screenshot of said picture and writes a message about how concerned she is about us and that she is praying for us.

Speaker 1 I was confused until my husband reminded me of her Karen Christianity.

Speaker 1 You know, the kind that gets offended if anyone happens to be a different religion, offended if anyone says, what the hell, etc.

Speaker 1 My husband then starts getting phone calls from random, distant, and extended family members asking if he's okay.

Speaker 1 Turns out, Karen had texted my husband's entire extended family, uncles, aunts, cousins, all over the country, the same screenshot of our picture with a long five-paragraph text asking everyone to pray for her son and that I, her daughter-in-law, is into some dangerous things and is a danger to her son.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 She doesn't spell out her cockamammy belief that she thinks I am a witch. Instead, she says that I am into, quote, bad and dangerous things and that I am dragging her son down with me.

Speaker 1 And she asks everyone to pray for him and pray for me too. Bless her heart for being so generous with her prayers, for I am but an evil witch.

Speaker 1 So, of course, the extended family members assume maybe I'm into drugs, or I'm poisoning him, or some other type of abuse. You can see what this would do for my reputation in his extended family.

Speaker 1 I text her back and tell her that her actions were uncalled for and that I will be going no contact with her going forward.

Speaker 1 She responds with, quote, daughter-in-law, we all know you dabble in witchcraft. I'm only concerned about my son.
I pray for you both.

Speaker 1 Husband called his father and asked him how he could let her do something like this, but father-in-law doubled down on Karen's accusations.

Speaker 1 So now my husband has gotten no contact with his parents too.

Speaker 1 I feel like I'm in a really bad soap opera. This isn't real life.
This has to be certifiably insane, right?

Speaker 1 A part of me feels like no no contact isn't forever and that eventually my husband and they will reconnect, even if I don't, which does bother me. What would you all do in this situation?

Speaker 2 God forbid you wear a witch costume to the mandatory costume party and forever alter the trajectory of everybody's lives.

Speaker 1 We have a picture. Okay, that's important.
We have the picture of said costume, okay?

Speaker 2 That blew up the family. Oh, it's just like a regular black dress and just like a cute black necklace.

Speaker 1 It does not look like

Speaker 1 she's not even wearing a hat.

Speaker 2 She's not wearing

Speaker 1 no witch garb. No, no, no.
No broomstick. Nothing crazy.
No hat. No black cat.
Yeah. It is quite literally a dress and a necklace.
What some people would wear as a fashionable outfit.

Speaker 2 And what's so crazy is she was sort of like the dream daughter-in-law. She was trying to get them to talk again.

Speaker 1 She was like creating amends between them, including them in wedding planning. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm, I'm blown away. And to see this outfit, like, I get his shirt, like, I'm with the witch, but it's like,

Speaker 1 it's clearly a joke. Like, it's clearly a joke.

Speaker 2 If she had had like a really, really terrifying, like, super scary costume that really haunted someone, like, personally, I had nightmares about the it clown for weeks.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 I hadn't even seen the movie. So

Speaker 1 the trailer was enough to send Michaela over the edge.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. So maybe if she'd had a costume that was just so dastardly,

Speaker 2 it would have warranted this. Yeah.
But no, she's just kind of growing out.

Speaker 1 She looks really cute. Yeah.
Really cute. Really cute.
And I'm just, I'm, I'm blown away. It's like, it's not even a conversation.
It's not even a like, hey, does she practice witchcraft?

Speaker 1 It's like, no, no, I don't. Of course you're a witch.

Speaker 2 Of course she does. Also, practicing witchcraft isn't that bad.
My roommate practices witchcraft and it's very lovely. She does it with love.
She does it with a lot of heart.

Speaker 1 I think it can be beautiful. Yeah.
There's, there's like a lot of, I started to get on the paganism side of TikTok for a while and it's really cool.

Speaker 1 Now, there are some, I did see a hex done, and I saw a love potion thing, which I don't know how I feel about that, but there's some very healthy witches as well.

Speaker 2 I was going through her because there's this like spell book of every single spell that's ever been, and there was this one love spell that was like, Okay, can I even say this?

Speaker 2 Put a live fish in your vagina and then wait until it dies, and then it's already, and then take it out and serve it.

Speaker 2 What whose spell book was this? It was like, it was like a compilation of every spell there's ever been. So like from every culture, every time in history.

Speaker 2 So it's not like this isn't what they're doing.

Speaker 1 This is this isn't like

Speaker 1 I'll send you a picture of it. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 I'm just so I googled very loose terms right now. Be careful with that Google search.

Speaker 1 Fish, vagina, love spell. Mm-hmm.
You found it?

Speaker 1 Quote, if some woman has given either a fish which has died in her vagina, or bread, which was made on her buttocks with blood, or menstrual blood to her husband to eat or drink, so that his love will be more inflamed.

Speaker 1 I am flabbergasted.

Speaker 1 I did not know this side of things existed. Am I surprised? Yes, actually, for once, I am.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and we should send this to the mother. We should be like, by the way, this is how your son fell in in love with this witch.
Like, this is witchcraft, man. This spell specifically.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. Apparently, this is, and this is legit.
This is posted on the National Library of Medicine. This is coming from Women, Men, and Love Magic in Late Medieval English.
Pastoral Manuals. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And not to like freak people out too much, but a lot of the love spells involved cooking some type of bodily fluid or like part into like a meal and then serving it to them. them you know so

Speaker 2 yeah i'm sorry for i'm sorry for bringing that to the table but wow but love the witches love a lot of witch guys not all witches not all witches

Speaker 1 not all witches oh my god i'm spiraling right now wow wow

Speaker 1 yeah no you you out there listener you just have a crazy mother-in-law yeah and your husband can set the the record straight with the extended family i mean

Speaker 1 I just am

Speaker 2 that that's the only Halloween costume that could have possibly triggered her, or do you think other ones could have? Because remember, we had that one story, the Shrek story,

Speaker 2 where it was like almost also, it's demonic that they want to have a Shrek-themed child's birthday party. Yeah.
But I feel which is pretty specifically like the worst nightmare of a...

Speaker 1 of a Christian. I could see that.
Well, anyway.

Speaker 1 I've seen a lot on TikTok this season about like, you're not a true Christian if you're celebrating Halloween. And then it would like stitch.
And there was just like some weird stuff going on.

Speaker 1 So I'm not super religious. I, my faith kind of floats around between like, I feel very Jewish in my, in my soul, but like, I don't really practice much.

Speaker 1 So I don't really know where I align on a lot of things, but I'm just like, it seems kind of a weird thing given like a lot. I don't know.
I don't know. I twist it up in it all.

Speaker 1 It's just like, it's like, why? Why care?

Speaker 2 I'm a a big pick and chooser. I think you can take from so many religions, have so many things in common.
And I think pick what resonates with you. Pick what feels like it makes you

Speaker 2 warmer in your soul. Yeah, like karma.

Speaker 1 I believe in karma. Yeah.
Reincarnation. I believe in reincarnation.

Speaker 2 I do too. I think it's a video game.
And I say, play again with this character this time.

Speaker 1 Who do you think you were in the past?

Speaker 2 Okay. I went to a psychic recently who said things to me that I didn't like.
But she told me, she told one of my friends that in a past life, she was an influencer.

Speaker 2 And it's like, that doesn't doesn't make any sense. Like, just timeline-wise, I don't know how she could have been an influencer in a past life.

Speaker 2 So I don't know how accurate she was, but I think I've had maybe four past lives. Okay.
I don't think I was one of the OGs. I don't think I was back in Mesopotamia, probably.
Okay.

Speaker 2 But I think I've, I've done this a couple of times.

Speaker 1 Your newer soul. Where do you think your soul was before that? Do you think you were a dinosaur?

Speaker 2 I think I was maybe bopping around up in the sky. Okay.
I think I was sort of like observing observing things.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
There's

Speaker 1 a theory you would probably really get into. It's from this channel called Kurzgesat.
I always butcher it. It's German, but it's a very science-based channel.

Speaker 1 And they go into the egg theory that like technically I am me, but I am also you. Like you are everyone on the planet.
I like talking. Yeah, that's, I, that's really nice.

Speaker 1 And like you were also like Cleopatra. You were also Napoleon.
It's just like this crazy theory. So it's a really cool science channel.

Speaker 1 If anyone wants to take this conversation we're having a step further.

Speaker 2 I'd believe anything. I'm that type of girl.

Speaker 1 I'm very, I'm very like, if I like it, spirits. I'll be like, okay, that's my new belief.

Speaker 1 Top comment on this one. She was looking for a reason to give you the boot, and the costume was the perfect moment.
She seems super toxic. No wonder why he kept his distance to begin with.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm also surprised actually that the son didn't flag this as like, I mean, I guess he doesn't care, but I'm surprised he wasn't like, by the way, my whole family might find this costume to be very devilish and bad it is interesting because he definitely knows their whole thing i'm also very curious what the red flags were that came up during like yeah the wedding scene yeah the earlier ones i would like to hear that too trying to see if there's any comments on op's account so we have a few Would like to clarify, he was never no contact with his parents before this.

Speaker 1 He kept me away as long as possible and was fairly low contact with them. Although they had their issues, he said that they had never been this outright terrible.

Speaker 1 I agree that my picture of parental relationship was rosy due to my own fortunate relationships with mine, and I shouldn't have encouraged him to improving theirs.

Speaker 1 But it was never this bad or bat shit. And my husband also believed maybe enough time had passed that maybe they had matured too.
This was a second chance and last chance. It's over now for sure.

Speaker 2 I don't think it was bad of her to like encourage him to try to have a relationship with his parents unless she was so, so pushy about it.

Speaker 2 I think that's like a beautiful thing to encourage your partner to be closer with their family unless it's a really negative situation. And now she knows and now she's seen what it was, and

Speaker 2 that won't be happening anymore.

Speaker 2 And it's like a good thing that he already knows they're crazy because a lot of the time you tell these stories and the guy is on the side of his parents or the mother-in-law.

Speaker 2 So thank God he's not going to be

Speaker 1 taken outside. I love a good hubby that stands by wifey with bad mother-in-law dynamics.
Like, it's not often. It's not enough.
No, I just saw a post title today, and I'm scared about it.

Speaker 1 Am I wrong for siding with my mom instead of my wife? And I'm like, you never know what way those are going to go. You never know.
You never know. But it's funny you mentioned bodily fluids.
Oh, God.

Speaker 2 Okay, what did I

Speaker 1 sign us up for? You opened a can of worms. This was not meant for you, I will say.

Speaker 1 But thanks to you sharing that fish tidbit, manifested it. I think you definitely manifested this one into your future.
So thank Michaela for this next story, you guys.

Speaker 2 Welcome, everybody.

Speaker 1 This episode is brought to you by Redkin. Blondies, colored hair girlies, and stylers with heat.
Smooth and strengthen those locks with Redkin ABC.

Speaker 1 That's Redkin acidic bonding concentrate, a leave-in treatment. The longer you leave it in, the better it feels.
And it provides heat protection up to 450 degrees Fahrenheit with continued use.

Speaker 1 So leave it in and repair those bonds with Redkin ABC. Shop Redkin ABC leave in treatment at ulta.com.

Speaker 1 So this one is coming from AITAH, 14 days old now. It is titled, Am I the Asshole for Leaving My Boyfriend for No Reason?

Speaker 1 Hmm. I, 26 female, have been with my now ex-boyfriend Eric, 28 male, for two years.
Overall, we had a good relationship. Nothing nothing crazy, until last night when things completely fell apart.

Speaker 1 We were out at a bar with some of his friends just having a normal night, drinks, food, the usual.

Speaker 1 Eric and his friend Mark, 28 male, were joking around, and Eric made a comment about how much Mark was eating. Something like, quote, careful, Mark, you'll eat the whole damn bar.

Speaker 1 It seemed harmless at first, just typical guy humor.

Speaker 1 But then, Mark looked right at me and said, quote, if she only knew. It was one of those moments where you instantly feel uncomfortable, like there's something going on behind your back.

Speaker 1 I had no idea what Mark was talking about, and the whole vibe at the table shifted. But before I could even react, Eric, my boyfriend, exploded.

Speaker 1 He went off on Mark, screaming at him to shut the fuck up and even tried to get physical. His other friends had to hold him back.
Mark didn't really react, which only made Eric angrier.

Speaker 1 The whole thing was awkward as hell, and we ended up leaving early. When we got back to my place, I couldn't stop thinking about that comment.

Speaker 1 So I asked Eric, quote, what the hell did Mark mean by, if she only knew? What don't I know?

Speaker 1 And instead of just answering me like a normal person, Eric lost it again. He started yelling at me, telling me to drop it and stop being paranoid.

Speaker 1 He was dodging every question, getting more pissed every time I brought it up. I wasn't trying to pick a fight.
I just wanted to know what was going on.

Speaker 1 It felt like there was something important being hidden from me, and I wasn't about to let it slide. But every time I asked, he'd just get more defensive and angry.
I'm riveted.

Speaker 1 What was it? Finally, he stormed out of my apartment. He doesn't live with me, so I locked the door and called it a night.

Speaker 1 I didn't hear from him until this morning, and when I did, it was just more angry texts telling me to drop it and leave him alone. At that point, I was done.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to sit around and be treated like I'm crazy for asking a simple question. I texted him back saying, we're done.
I need space.

Speaker 1 And if he can't be honest with me, then I don't want any part of this relationship. End of story.

Speaker 1 Now here's where it gets worse. He's been going around to our mutual friends, telling them that I left him for no reason and trying to make it seem like I'm the one who overreacted.

Speaker 1 Some of them have even reached out to me saying I should have just let it go and that I'm blowing things out of proportion. I told them to mind their own fucking business.

Speaker 1 I don't care what they think. None of them were there in that moment.
None of them saw how he acted.

Speaker 1 And none of them have to live with the pit in their stomach that I've had since that weird ass comment from Mark.

Speaker 1 I'm not about to stay in a relationship where I feel like something shady is going on behind my back. If Eric can't be straight with me after two years together, then what's the point?

Speaker 1 So, Reddit, am I the asshole for leaving him over this?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 I mean, yeah, if someone was to break it down to just like, she left me because I wouldn't tell her what my friend meant, I guess I could see why they would react like, oh, she left him for no reason.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But I feel like it's the way that the conversations went after that.
And I would fall for that, probably.

Speaker 1 If someone was like, you're being paranoid, I would probably be like, you know what? Yeah, I probably, I would probably

Speaker 1 be.

Speaker 2 I'd like to think that now I've changed, but but I've definitely been successfully gaslit in those situations

Speaker 2 so many times. I don't know.

Speaker 1 There's nothing going on. No, no, that girl that I was making out with at the bar the other weekend.
No, it was a misunderstanding.

Speaker 2 Oh, I was like easily convinced that my boyfriend's phone battery said 12% usage on Tinder this week because he had a glitch.

Speaker 1 I was like, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 Why do we do this to ourselves, you guys? Why? Wait, okay. What

Speaker 1 was it?

Speaker 2 I need to know what it was.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So top comment, not the asshole. Between keeping secrets and the acting ape shit, it sounds like this experience was the nail in the coffin from some previous red flags.

Speaker 2 And the fact that it's if she only knew. Like, she wasn't in the conversation at all.

Speaker 2 So it's clear that whatever this is, it's something that she would have feelings about or like it's something that would potentially bother her.

Speaker 2 You know, like for the friend friend to be like, if she only knew, I'd be like, what? Like, what, what is this is something I would feel strongly about, then what is it?

Speaker 1 That's very ominous. And like, I mean, Mark was like clearly offended by the comment, like, careful, Mark, you'll eat the whole damn thing aggressive.
And then for Mark to then be like,

Speaker 1 he felt attacked. So then he's going to lowball Eric with if she only knew.
And Eric could have just played a cool like, ha-ha.

Speaker 2 Right. Then it wouldn't have bothered her so much.

Speaker 1 It never would have been a thing. It would have gone maybe over her head or just like, uh, boys being boys, like bantering with each other.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But the way Eric reacted, blowing up, getting physical, trying to get physical, having to have friends hold him back. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That doesn't add up. Like that comment from Mark doesn't equal that reaction from Eric.

Speaker 2 I think it's one of those situations where when you're in it, you have this gut feeling about it of like this reaction.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, your partner, you know, the way that they react to things, you know, like their little movements.

Speaker 2 And I think she had an intuition and like a gut feeling that the way he's reacting to this is something that, like,

Speaker 2 is a big deal. And it wasn't normal.
I've never seen him act like this. Clearly, there's something here.
And then, not only that, but then to have all of these attempts at gaslighting her after that.

Speaker 2 Instead of just being like, honestly, this is something that is really embarrassing from my past.

Speaker 2 And I am not ready to share this with you, or something like that, because clearly that's the situation. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Maybe saying something like that would have been fine, and they could have resolved it from there and be like, I do trust you, and like, I want to share everything with you, but you know, this was just like a really, really embarrassing moment for me.

Speaker 2 I don't know, whatever it was.

Speaker 1 And then he, like, it's not only the gaslighting and like the verbal, he's freaking out and like trying to make her look bad to people. Just like going crazy in the apartment.

Speaker 1 And like, I mean, there's no mention of like punching walls, right?

Speaker 2 I'm not sure. There was definitely like aggression in the bar.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He lost it again, started yelling at me and being paranoid.

Speaker 1 So yeah, no mention of like punching walls, but like it just feels like it was escalating to a point where like it doesn't feel, it's definitely not healthy, but it almost is starting to not feel safe.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Like I would be scared of that person.
And it's like, if this is all over me asking you a simple question,

Speaker 1 run. Like that is huge.
If you don't have basic conversational level level communication with your partner, when something gets brought up or you're uncomfortable or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. No.

Speaker 2 I also just don't think someone can be an asshole for leaving a relationship. I think you can be an asshole for the way you handle leaving a relationship.

Speaker 2 If you lack empathy in it, or you don't, you know, have a discussion with that person or you cheat on them or you bamboozle them. But like breaking up with someone.

Speaker 2 Like you're always allowed to do, like you're allowed to have your feelings change.

Speaker 1 You could literally just not love that person anymore that's an okay reason to leave yeah that's not someone's fault that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt that person exactly and it's not like a terrible experience for them but you're not an asshole for no it's more so like you said how you handle it

Speaker 1 so there is a comment here not the asshole you didn't leave for no reason but sounds like it's good that you did if they keep pushing tell them to ask eric what mark meant maybe they'll see it for themselves That's a good point.

Speaker 2 That's a good point. Like bring it up to him and you'll see his reaction.
But maybe now he'll chill out.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Yeah.

Speaker 2 He'll act cool about it.

Speaker 1 Well, we have an update.

Speaker 2 Thank God.

Speaker 1 I feel like I'm living in some kind of twisted nightmare. And the more I try to make sense of it, the worse it gets.
Spiraling. Mark called me today while I was at work.

Speaker 1 I didn't expect him to call me because he was ignoring me. So I stepped outside to take the call.
And he told me something that I never in a million years could have prepared for.

Speaker 1 He told me that Eric has been putting other men's semen into my food, drinks, skincare, shampoo, conditioner, and even my toothpaste. Sorry?

Speaker 1 What the f? Sorry?

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 2 He should be in jail.

Speaker 1 Prison. Straight to prison.

Speaker 2 No, there's not anything serious enough on that.

Speaker 2 There's only divorce and therapy.

Speaker 1 Therapy, divorce. We need another one.
Prison. Too long.

Speaker 1 Prison. I'm not exaggerating.
I'm not being dramatic. That's what Mark said.

Speaker 1 Eric has apparently been hooking up with random men, having them finish into cups, and then using it in my meals and drinks like it's some kind of sick joke.

Speaker 1 Even as I write this, I'm still in complete disbelief. Who does that to someone?

Speaker 1 Mark said he found out about this a week ago, but for some reason, it took him that long to tell me. A week.

Speaker 1 I've been living my life completely oblivious, trusting Eric, someone I loved, while this was happening behind my back. I feel so betrayed, so disgusted, and so violated.

Speaker 1 When I asked Mark if he and Eric were having an affair or if this was some sort of twisted thing between them, he swore they weren't.

Speaker 1 And he even made a gross comment about not wanting to touch Eric because, quote, who knows what diseases he had. That made my stomach turn.

Speaker 1 I'm getting tested for everything now because I don't know what's been in my body.

Speaker 2 That's like assault.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That's assault.
That's so fucked up.

Speaker 2 I like this is maybe one of the most evil things I've ever heard in my life. Her partner was doing this to her.
Also, like the first time. After two years.

Speaker 1 Partner of two years.

Speaker 2 I can't believe also that the friend wouldn't immediately tell her. This is not the kind of thing where it's like you protect your friend.

Speaker 1 Someone's health could be on the line.

Speaker 2 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 You could be like ingesting

Speaker 1 lifelong, uncurable diseases.

Speaker 2 This is so fucked up that like even the cheating aspect of it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 It's because it's like so small in comparison. Cheat on me every day of the week.
Don't put the person's bodily fluids in my food. What the fuck?

Speaker 2 I can't believe he admitted that.

Speaker 1 I wonder how he found out. How Mark found out? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right. He didn't say how he found out.

Speaker 1 No, but we're not done with the update yet. So maybe we will.
When I got home, I went straight to the kitchen.

Speaker 1 Mark told me to check under the sink, and there they were, the cups, hidden behind the cleaning supplies. I lost my shit.

Speaker 1 I threw out everything in the kitchen and bathroom, even stuff I knew wasn't touched. I don't care.
Everything feels contaminated now. My home doesn't feel like a safe space anymore.

Speaker 1 Every time I walk into the kitchen, I feel like I'm going to throw up. I can't even function without my mind going to dark places, thinking about all the times I had no idea what was happening.

Speaker 1 I don't have any solid proof of this. It's just Mark's words and those disgusting cups, and I feel so powerless.
If nothing can be done about this, I honestly don't know what I'm going to do.

Speaker 1 How is this even legal? It's not. How can someone get away with something so vile? I don't know if I'll ever be able to trust anyone again.

Speaker 1 This whole thing has been messing with my head in ways I can't even explain. I feel dirty.
I feel like I've been violated on such a deep level, and there's nothing I can do to undo it.

Speaker 1 My mom wants me to check into a hospital just to make sure I'm okay mentally, and I'm honestly going to do it. I don't feel stable right now.

Speaker 1 I don't feel like myself, and I'm scared I might hurt myself or someone else. Eric was eating the same food.
He was eating the food that he had contaminated right alongside of me.

Speaker 1 Was it a kink, a power trip? I don't even know anymore. All I know is that the man I thought I knew, the man I loved, is a complete stranger to me now.

Speaker 1 I can't believe I've been living with someone capable of something so vile. I feel like I'm losing my mind and I don't know how I'm going to come back from this.
How can he do this to me?

Speaker 1 I'm genuinely losing it. I'm a danger to myself and I won't be on.
I'm going to check myself into a hospital.

Speaker 2 This is a violation on so many levels. Like, I, I literally can't think of any person on this level besides serial killers.

Speaker 1 Serial killers.

Speaker 2 Like psychopaths. This might be the worst thing I've ever heard in my life.

Speaker 1 I mean, you think about

Speaker 1 how many choices he took away from her, like the assault, the level of like gaslighting. I mean, this is just every level of psychological, physical abuse and torture.

Speaker 2 And there's no way that like anyone could be friends with him either after hearing this. Like, surely Mark will never speak to him again, right?

Speaker 1 No, he Mark needs to tell the friend group what he did. Everybody.
Everyone needs to know this man needs to be put on a registry. This man needs to to be in jail.

Speaker 2 He should never be able to date someone again. This is so terrifying.

Speaker 1 No, I want OP to sue for damages. I want him to have to sell his car, any personal belongings he has before he packs his toothbrush for jail because

Speaker 1 this could

Speaker 1 be just devastating. And there's devastating consequences.

Speaker 2 It's absolutely not legal. And yeah, it makes me so sad how she mentioned, like, I don't know how I'll ever trust anyone again.
I wouldn't know how I would ever trust anyone again either.

Speaker 2 And like two years is a significant amount of time to be with somebody and like to trust them and to build a relationship with them. And it, she didn't mention seeing any red flags before this.

Speaker 2 I'm sure he was very charming and normal. That's so scary.

Speaker 2 Oh my God. I hope she's okay.
I'm so glad she's going.

Speaker 1 to get treatment. Absolutely.
And you need to. I mean, I, my brain, my brain would shut down.
Like, I would, I would go catatonic. I'd have trouble eating.

Speaker 2 I'd have trouble like drinking and eating things.

Speaker 1 Any, any response after this is valid. Like, yeah, I mean, the desire to like trouble eating, trouble trusting, trouble eating.
Absolutely. And like, her being like, I'm scared.

Speaker 1 Like, I'm going to hurt myself. And it's like, I don't, God, no, you do not, do not do that.
You did not deserve any of this. And then it's like, but I'm scared I'm going to hurt someone else.

Speaker 1 And it's like,

Speaker 1 yeah, you don't want to then retaliate against Eric and do something to where like

Speaker 1 you're in jail behind bars because, you know, like you want to get the justice you deserve. And

Speaker 1 so, when I got this emailed to me, I literally thought the person that emailed it to me was like the person that was writing this. Oh, wow.
And so, I was like, Um, what the fuck? Absolute psychopath.

Speaker 1 You should try to press charges, see if Mike would give the police a statement and honestly keep those cups. I'm so sorry you're going through this.
And then I, you know, I was so panicked.

Speaker 1 And then I realized, oh,

Speaker 2 like someone forwarding another story.

Speaker 1 Someone forwarding me the story. So, looking at the thread, though, someone did have the same concern of like, wait, wait, wait, wait, get the cups, get the cups out of the trash.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because OP was like, I threw everything away, everything in the kitchen, everything I tossed.

Speaker 1 And so someone was like, it was only two days ago that you posted this. Go get all of the items you threw away out of the fucking garbage and turn them into the police.
There's your solid proof.

Speaker 1 You threw it away. And by the way, it is not legal.

Speaker 1 If those items are tested and come back positive, he is going to jail, not the asshole. I hope you get justice.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he is a danger to society. Like

Speaker 2 I, honestly, after this, if I knew who this was, I would dedicate my life to making sure if he ever pops up on any dating app, he's reported to the platform, like any social media.

Speaker 2 Like, he shouldn't be allowed to date women.

Speaker 1 There's or men. No one.
He shouldn't be allowed to date anybody.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 I don't know if he like specifically has like a sex thing where he likes doing this to women or if this is just something he would do to anyone.

Speaker 1 How do you even start initiating this? How do you how

Speaker 1 how sick do you have to be? And the other people also like engaging in willfully giving them

Speaker 2 I know what does he say to these giving him their

Speaker 1 collecting their sperm?

Speaker 2 Like what is he what is the excuse he gives for hey can you come into this cup?

Speaker 1 Surely I want to drink it later. I don't know.

Speaker 2 There's no way he's telling them what it's actually for.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I hope not.
Because then there are a lot more evil people out there. It's really, it's a scary thought.
So, OP does respond to that comment.

Speaker 1 Everything I threw out was in the kitchen garbage, so it didn't get taken on trash day. My mom and my cousin went to the house with the police to get it for evidence.
I'm pressing charges against him.

Speaker 1 Thank God.

Speaker 1 Thank God.

Speaker 1 That's the last comment we have from OP.

Speaker 1 So I'm hoping, you know, we get an update. It has been 14 days.
That comment was 11 days ago. So

Speaker 1 I would assume based on what we had in the update, like OP is maybe in an inpatient program, you know, getting some help because I would be

Speaker 1 spiraled. I would be corkscrewed down to the core of the earth after this.

Speaker 2 Yeah, this, I, I hope that she can get through this. Like she did nothing wrong in this situation.
This is an insane thing to have happened to her. But of course, she's going to feel violated.

Speaker 2 She's going to have trust issues. She's going to have PTSD.
There are going to be so many things that, like,

Speaker 2 so many lasting effects from this. But I hope that it gets better over here.
I think it will. And like, a little, I hope justice helps as well.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And sounds like a good support system. I mean, mom and another family member like going over to the house with the police.
So OP didn't have to do it. Like good support system by the sounds of it.

Speaker 1 So I

Speaker 1 really hope she comes out of this okay. Yeah, all of her As okay as you

Speaker 1 can be after such an insane situation.

Speaker 2 All of those friends that he was turning against her will now

Speaker 2 for sure not be taking a side.

Speaker 1 No, I would I would 1 million percent be writing up this like story or like sending them the Reddit post.

Speaker 2 The gall to be contacting everyone you know saying she broke up with me for no reason when he knows that Mark knows what he did and like what the thing is.

Speaker 1 Did you not think you were opening a a can of worms?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so insane.

Speaker 2 Just the audacity to be contacting all those people like that.

Speaker 1 I think that shows how unhinged he is, though. Yeah.
I think that shows his mental state and that like he truly felt so powerful. Yeah.
That like nothing was going to blow back on him.

Speaker 1 Scary shit. Scary man.
Scary man. Yeah.
Moving along. This episode is brought to you by Kraft Mac and Cheese.
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Speaker 1 How can we?

Speaker 1 Okay, so we have one more story related to

Speaker 1 DNA.

Speaker 1 So this is coming from r/slash r/slash donor conceived. It is titled, I just took a DNA test.
Turns out, I'm 23% related to my husband. Oh no.

Speaker 1 Hey, everyone. I've known my whole life that I am donor conceived.
I grew up in New South Wales, and my parents were always open about it, so it was never some big secret.

Speaker 1 I didn't think much about it beyond that, though. Until a couple of years ago, when my husband and I decided to take an ancestry DNA test, we thought it'd be fun.

Speaker 1 Maybe I'd find some half siblings and he'd learn a little bit more about his side of the family. Well, we got the results and I matched with him.
My husband is my half-sibling.

Speaker 2 Very spiraling moment.

Speaker 1 At first, I thought it had to be some kind of mistake or maybe I misunderstood something. But no, after looking into it, we realized his dad was also a donor and no one ever told him.

Speaker 1 Now, here we are, married for years with two kids, and we're still trying to figure out how to process the fact we're siblings. I don't even know how to explain how I feel.
It's just overwhelming.

Speaker 1 I love him, of course, but this changes so much. We've already spoken to a genetic counselor, and we're trying to move forward.

Speaker 1 But it's like everything we thought we knew about our family has been flipped upside down. I just kind of feel lost.
Has anyone else here gone through something like this?

Speaker 1 I'd really appreciate hearing from anyone who has dealt with something similar or even just your thoughts.

Speaker 2 This is so difficult because like she's in it. Like they have children together.
They're married. It's not like she found this out five months into dating.

Speaker 2 It's like what the fuck do you do in that situation? What do you do about that?

Speaker 1 I think the biggest hurdle would be mentally.

Speaker 2 Yeah, getting over that now, like sexually.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Because at this point for me,

Speaker 1 I just like, you guys are in it. You're married.
You have kids. Yeah.
What's done is done.

Speaker 1 Like literally, you didn't grow up raised as siblings. So if you could get over it mentally, don't have any more kids.
Make sure your kids are taken care of.

Speaker 1 And, you know, you do the genetic counseling

Speaker 1 and you go from there. But I...
I just like, this is, this is tough.

Speaker 1 And I, based on this, it's like they did this years ago and they're still here struggling reaching out to other people that were donor conceived trying to mentally get over it so i know there needs to be like a support group i i feel like the sub might be oh that what what's the name of the sub uh r slash donor conceived a place for those conceived through using donor conception an inclusive community for donor conceived individuals to connect discuss and find support That's good.

Speaker 2 I feel so bad because like this was not a purposeful decision decision that they made. And it's like, God, you almost wish you didn't know.
Like you wish, almost wish you never found out.

Speaker 2 I think like, I don't know exactly how it works when you have children with some. I know it can pose a lot of health risk.
So I guess it is good to know that type of thing.

Speaker 2 Would you want, would you tell your kids in that situation?

Speaker 2 I feel like, is there any reason they would need to know?

Speaker 1 I feel like you might have to now just because like, of

Speaker 1 the DNA implications. Like, I don't know.
Like, I could see this becoming more common because of how many donor-conceived kids there are out there, where, like, hey, you're dating someone new. Like,

Speaker 1 I don't know. Have you done 23 and me? Like, it could become one of those things.
Like, we have a listener who I actually met in Minnesota at our live show.

Speaker 1 And she is the one who wrote in a previous story about

Speaker 1 doing a DNA test and finding out that she had 50 siblings. Oh, my God.
Yeah. So, I mean, it's a small world.
Like, it is such a small world.

Speaker 1 So, I could, in the future see it becoming a very real thing where, like, you have to do a DNA test with someone you're getting married to and about to have kids with, or blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's crazy. I can't, like, that is very a spiraling moment because I, I just, I can't even imagine how that would affect me mentally, like romantically with my partner and like.

Speaker 2 what kinds of conversations I might now have to have with my family and my children. And then, like, it's embarrassing.

Speaker 2 Like you, you want support, but then it's also embarrassing to talk about with your friends. Like it feels like you've done something wrong, even though you had no idea.

Speaker 2 I just really, I feel for them because that's so horrible.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 I am like trying to put myself in the shoes. Like if I woke up today,

Speaker 1 not married, no kids, and I found out Justin was my half-brother,

Speaker 1 I'd have to call it off. Yeah.
I'd have to. Like that is just so

Speaker 2 it'd just be hard to get over that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's just like we do both want kids, so it's like, okay, well, then, you know, the options are definitely slimmer.

Speaker 1 And it's just like, if you find out before you're so locked in, the obvious right choice would be find another person.

Speaker 1 But because of where they're at,

Speaker 1 like, is it worth tearing your family apart? I don't know. I don't know either.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 It depends on how much it's affecting them mentally.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 2 I think it would would just be too difficult.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 So the comments are very, very supportive.

Speaker 2 Yay, thank God.

Speaker 1 I know. I think you need some family counseling first between you and your husband, and then later down the road, when you inevitably tell your children.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure if you are able to take leave from work, but it would be a good idea to look into that because this is absolutely something you need to process without work distraction.

Speaker 1 OP responds, I'm in therapy myself, but unfortunately, my husband is not open to that right now. He's in a big denial phase and does not wish to talk about it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry you're going through all of this. I can't say I've been in your shoes, but don't be afraid of considering whether this is a deal breaker for you and your marriage.

Speaker 1 Please continue your personal therapy. Your husband may need to process this on his own timeline, but I would think it would be important to bring in a professional for him sooner than later.

Speaker 2 And it's so hard because once you know that, it's like, if I tell people, they're going to look at me and think, ew, you know, like it, it, it's, it's like they've done something wrong, even though they had no idea.

Speaker 1 I know. And you think about it too, like, what has their intimacy looked like the past couple of years since they found this out? Because that also takes a big toll on your relationship.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 And it was clearly a part of it in some regard because they had kids.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So they bought the children.

Speaker 2 One can assume things were working out before.

Speaker 1 I know. So I just, oh, it's the pits.
Just the pits.

Speaker 1 A lot of people being like, I see you're Australian. I'm going to DM you some groups, professionals, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I think this is

Speaker 1 really good support I'm seeing in the comments. So.

Speaker 2 This is the positive side of Reddit, being able to find support for like any niche situation you're going through, I think.

Speaker 2 Because yeah, this would be very hard to talk about with the people in my life.

Speaker 2 It's hard to be like, hey, my husband is my

Speaker 1 half-sibling.

Speaker 1 Surprise.

Speaker 2 And then, like, because you really, you probably don't want that to spread. Like, you probably don't want a bunch of people to know.

Speaker 2 You don't want your children to find out before you've talked to them about it.

Speaker 1 Friends, I mean,

Speaker 1 I would hate to become everyone's gossip,

Speaker 1 hot topic. Yeah, I'd be like, wow, that's, did you hear

Speaker 2 about Morgan and Justin?

Speaker 1 Gosh, it would be really, really tough. So there is an edit.
Okay. This blew up much bigger than I intended.
I'm going to speak to my husband about family therapy again and sit on this information.

Speaker 1 We have no interest in going public at this point. Yeah.
Because there were some people that were like, hey, blah, blah, blah. I would love to interview you for their story.
I'm sure they would.

Speaker 1 I'm sure they would love that. OP was like, not about it.

Speaker 1 Not about it.

Speaker 1 So we have an update. That was posted just a couple of days ago.
Thank you all so much for your responses, support, and advice.

Speaker 1 I've taken some time to process, and I wanted to provide an update on where we're at. First, I have been in individual therapy and I'm working through everything.

Speaker 1 It's been incredibly helpful to have space to just unravel my thoughts. My husband has also told me that he is open to couples therapy, which is a big step for us.

Speaker 1 And I'm hopeful it will help us navigate this together. To confirm some things, yes, my father-in-law is the donor, which makes him not only my husband's father, but also mine.

Speaker 1 It was a lot to take in. We're both really angry that my husband's dad never told him the truth.
And at the moment, neither of us are talking to him. It's just too much.

Speaker 1 We also discovered about 40 other siblings so far, all of whom live nearby.

Speaker 2 That's another danger is that, like, if it's all in the same area, it's the same community. So, what is she supposed to do?

Speaker 2 It's not like there was just, she happened to fall in love with the one person. They're in a small community with 40 sip 42 siblings.

Speaker 1 Dude, this is what I'm saying. Like the regulations on sperm donation,

Speaker 1 like even now, I feel like it's kind of a wild west. And that's why a lot of donor conceived people are like talking about it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But like you would have like someone donate sperm to make extra money in college and next thing you know, there's a hundred kids. Right.
Like they didn't say, oh, 10 kids and only in different areas.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 No, they could all be in the same like school district.

Speaker 1 Literally. Your sibling could be your deskmate and not even know.
Yeah. And that's how they ended up here.

Speaker 2 Like, there needs, wouldn't it be a 50% match if it's a parent?

Speaker 1 Girl.

Speaker 1 Scroll. I don't know how.

Speaker 1 One, genetics. Punnett squares.
I know a basic punnet square. A, big A, little A.

Speaker 2 Make it bigger than fake.

Speaker 1 More squares.

Speaker 2 We out. Don't even.
We out.

Speaker 1 Alleles. Nope.
Nope.

Speaker 1 Silent stuff. Recessive genes.

Speaker 2 Because I know i have 100 dna in common with my siblings

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 because we have exactly the same peoples but then so like my brother's daughter what i would have 50 in common with her

Speaker 1 and then if she had a child i would then be 25 in common with them i don't know technically because of how like oh it's not always exactly 50 50 i don't think it is because like if i go on my 23and me i get like a breakdown of like shared DNA, even with like my grandma and like an aunt.

Speaker 1 And like I feel like one of my aunts was like only

Speaker 1 like a random like

Speaker 1 it was like not what I would

Speaker 2 point. It's not exactly like 50-50 because yeah, I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 We need a geneticist to pop in. Yeah, what if we did?

Speaker 2 Phone a friend. What if we were like, wait a minute, they're right here.

Speaker 1 Phone a friend. Geneticist pops up.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So the update goes on to say, that was another layer of this experience we weren't prepared for. We haven't met them all yet.
But knowing they're out there brings its own challenges and questions,

Speaker 1 which is what I was talking about with their kids. Like their kids could then date

Speaker 1 a sibling or maybe a cousin.

Speaker 2 Well, and it probably didn't even come up because

Speaker 2 it was his, like the father that he knew. It wasn't like, oh, we both are.
like we're sperm donor children. Maybe we should get that tested.

Speaker 2 He didn't even know that it fought that his father had donated sperm. So he he would have no, they would have no idea that they need to look into that.

Speaker 1 None.

Speaker 1 Which, like,

Speaker 1 that's at that point.

Speaker 2 His father should have said something.

Speaker 1 That's got to say something.

Speaker 2 If he knew that he had over 40,

Speaker 2 40 successful, I guess maybe they don't know how many times it's actually used, but he knew he donated at least 50 times.

Speaker 1 Well, and here's the other part of this. Like, our writer here is very open about being donor conceived.
Like, yeah. My parents told me young.
It's been like a part of my story, whatever she said.

Speaker 1 Right. So I'm pretty sure the father-in-law probably knew that she was donor conceived.

Speaker 1 Like they're close enough. Also, hey, do you see? Son's been with her long enough to get married.
So, like, you know, a little bit about her background and story. Oh, she's donor conceived.

Speaker 2 Like, about what time she was born.

Speaker 1 I donated sperm.

Speaker 2 Maybe.

Speaker 1 She kind of passed my eyes.

Speaker 1 God. Like, I mean, tell him at that point.
Like, hey,

Speaker 1 you're dating someone who's donor conceived. I donated sperm.
Yeah. Just so you know, maybe

Speaker 1 look into that. A lot of times.

Speaker 2 Around the exact year that she was born in this area.

Speaker 1 See, here's where I want someone that works at like a clinic to chime in because I'm like, how many usages do you get out of one cup?

Speaker 1 Does the person have to come in and give multiple samples for like 40 kids?

Speaker 2 Or like huge point that I didn't even know.

Speaker 1 How many do you get from one sample?

Speaker 2 I mean, sometimes zero, I think.

Speaker 1 Depending on how active the sperm is.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I love science.
I need to watch your YouTube on this.

Speaker 2 I have a friend who's donated eggs a few times, and that's very different because it's like what eggs are a one-off. And like, they know exactly.
They like, she knows if it goes through.

Speaker 2 She knows the families.

Speaker 1 That's true.

Speaker 2 And it's been, I think, two or three times that she's done it. Wow.

Speaker 2 But yeah, it's different with sperm. They're a little bit easier.
They're a little bit more.

Speaker 1 Well, there's so many in one glob. Yeah.
Like a glob. Yeah.
Like an egg is actually like an individual egg. And like, right.
I know the individual sperms are in the globs, but you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Yeah. And can you separate each little swimmer and like out of the glob?

Speaker 2 I love to like on a podcast sort of just wonder about things out loud. And it's like, hey, at home, you can look this up, but we're just going to wonder.

Speaker 1 We're just going to wonder.

Speaker 2 We're just going to wonder with you.

Speaker 1 I want to learn from an expert. So if you work at a clinic, if you are in the fertility practice, please let us know.
I see the comments. I love reading them.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Just like a little bit of a slap on the wrist for the dad for not mentioning.

Speaker 2 I don't think he's like a terrible person, but I think that's like, hey, maybe we could have, maybe we could have brought this up.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 As for our marriage, no, we are not divorcing. We love each other and are committed to working through this, but we haven't told our children yet.
We plan to get professional advice before we do.

Speaker 1 This isn't something we want to rush into without understanding the best way to approach it for their sake.

Speaker 1 I know many of you are a part of the donor conceived community, and I just want to say that while I'm very aware and involved in spaces like We Are Donor Conceived, and I follow creators like Laura High, Donor Dylan, The Queer mama rachel strangers like me dc sunny evie lucas etc i'm not interested in speaking to anyone publicly about our situation i'm really proud of people like victoria hill for going public but that's not what's best for my family right now thanks again for listening for the advice and for understanding we're taking this one day at a time I also just think since they have young children, like kids can be so mean.

Speaker 2 And I just, I understand, I understand them not feeling like it's worth it to go public with this and like put their kids in this situation.

Speaker 2 I mean, they'd probably get bullied relentlessly for something like that. And it wouldn't be their fault.

Speaker 1 No. And I also don't think it's necessarily anyone else's business.
Yeah. But the immediate family.

Speaker 1 I don't know if I truly, I don't know if I tell anyone. I wouldn't.
I don't think I would. I think I would keep this in my little bubble.

Speaker 2 I have a books. Like, that's so sad that you, that would be really difficult to live with.

Speaker 1 I've ever been able to talk to someone. Completely, because then you just feel like it's just that weight weight of that world is solely on you.

Speaker 1 But I have a really hard time trusting people with secrets because like you tell one person and it's not a secret anymore.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they tell one person and that person tells one person.

Speaker 1 I mean, in today's time, like it's a game of telephone. Like it's crazy the stuff people will share like from their personal emails or like their text messages with people.
And it's like.

Speaker 1 That person thought that that was going to be private. Like, and I get if it's, you know, hurtful or racist or offensive or whatever, then that's kind of a different story.

Speaker 1 But like, if you're just sharing like an intimate conversation or someone like telling you something, like we need to denormalize that, that feels icky.

Speaker 2 That's happening a lot, dude.

Speaker 1 I just had the weirdest experience. I went to

Speaker 1 a football game last Thursday night, so like a week ago, and it was like we were the away team, so it was like the Rams versus the Vikings.

Speaker 1 And every single time the Vikings would like have something bad happen to them, or like the Rams would essentially score, or the Rams would do something good.

Speaker 1 A lady in front of us would turn her phone on, record, and shove it up into our faces. Oh, and being like, What the fuck? I'm sad.

Speaker 1 Sad. And I'm like, um,

Speaker 1 this is really weird. Like,

Speaker 2 that's so crazy.

Speaker 2 I also just listened to, like, I listened to this sociology podcast, and they were talking about the psychology of crowds, and like, specifically on sports teams, how people can act so differently from like their behavior in other environments when they have these, like everyone's wearing the same uniform and someone else is wearing a different uniform and it's like us versus them.

Speaker 2 And the crowd is acting a certain way. And like that, you could know someone who's so sweet and put them in that situation and they'd act in a way that you wouldn't expect.

Speaker 1 I truly had never had a worse experience

Speaker 1 being the away team. And it wasn't just that lady.

Speaker 1 So Justin obviously asked her like at one point, like towards the end, because it was the whole game and we we were just getting sick of it and it it felt weird like why are you recording me and then you're posting it on socials like yeah what are you doing with that yeah and with ai and editing like you just don't know like no that's so up so he was like hey can you please stop recording us and she goes you shut the up what the and then the rest of the game she was like she was like

Speaker 2 And like, yeah, like, congratulations to you. You're so cool.

Speaker 1 Text, because we could read her phone because she was like big font.

Speaker 1 And she was texting people about it, being like, people told me to stop recording them haha watch i'll get a picture what the hell and so she then tried to take a selfie and get us in the background and like luckily we had foam fingers so we like blocked but it was so crazy but that that was one experience right yeah so after the game like everyone was like mocking us the rams won you guys won and you're mocking us we already lost yeah and we're the visiting team like

Speaker 1 weird sore winners but okay and then we're outside on the street and like all these Rams fans, like anyone you would walk by, would start yelling at you.

Speaker 1 Like, there was a guy that drove by in a car yelling like the F-slur.

Speaker 1 What the fuck? It was unhinged. I've never had a worse like experience at a football game or a sporting event.

Speaker 2 So shocking. That's like, but that's crazy because that's exactly what they were saying on that little podcast I was listening to.
I was like, you triggered me.

Speaker 1 I'm like, I feel like

Speaker 2 that's not normal behavior. That's not normal human behavior.

Speaker 2 They like almost dehumanize dehumanize you because you're in a different group from them and to the point where they don't treat you the way they would normally treat human beings.

Speaker 2 Like there's no way that many people are normally acting like that. No.
But they feel emboldened.

Speaker 2 Like I honestly, in sporting situations, if I'm in the minority of like wearing a jersey, I'm like, am I safe here?

Speaker 1 Like, is something bad going to happen? And that's the thing. It would never happen at Minnesota.
Like, we, we do not like the Packers, but we would never treat Packers fans that way.

Speaker 2 I'd probably be scared. There are like a few fandoms, probably like.

Speaker 1 I heard Philly, the Eagles.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's exactly the first one I was going to say. And

Speaker 2 no one's going to like this. I'm so sorry.
Let me preface this by saying, I'm sorry. I am a Dallas Cowboys fan.

Speaker 1 Michaela.

Speaker 2 So I would not be safe in a Philly situation.

Speaker 1 Okay, you're not doing that well this year.

Speaker 2 We're not. Normally we wait until the playoffs to disappoint in the way that we're disappointing this year.

Speaker 1 They're giving it to us early. Dak is having a very surprising season.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and he just got a lot of money.

Speaker 1 And it's like, I was very surprised by that deal. But honestly, last year, I was like, I don't think Doc's the guy.

Speaker 1 I was very surprised by that deal.

Speaker 1 And he's coming off an injury. Okay.
But like, I never thought he was that great of a quarterback to get that big of a deal. But,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 Kirk Cousins just went to Atlanta for a crazy deal. So I don't know.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 He's good. He's just not.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Anyway.

Speaker 1 Anyways, we digress. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Seems like there will be a happy ending here. They will just have to go to therapy and process and work through it.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's so crazy. I was completely in a totally different place.

Speaker 1 I was like, what story were we even? I'm talking about it. Dude, we took, we took it far.
We took it far. We got lost.
And I'm so sorry, everyone. Genetics.
Yes. Genetics.

Speaker 2 But all the love to them. I'm glad that that community on Reddit exists.

Speaker 1 It's really nice. Yeah.
And I'm glad that social media exists for the way it's created a...

Speaker 1 a way to talk about it, like the platform and those creators that are donor conceived opening up about their stories and making people feel seen and like they're not alone.

Speaker 2 Previously, someone might have never met someone else who was donor conceived, like, no, or maybe it wouldn't have been brought up, but like they maybe never would have been able to talk to someone about that, relate on that level.

Speaker 2 And I feel like that's true of so many different communities on the internet. So shout out to that.
A lot of negatives, but a lot of positives too. I know.

Speaker 1 Glass half full. Huh.
Glass half full. There we go, babe.
There we go.

Speaker 1 This episode of Two Hot Takes is presented by DiSerono. This holiday season, I'll be raising a glass with DiSerono, the world's favorite Italian liqueur.
And mine. DiSorono has been a holiday staple.

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It's one of the only liqueurs I can actually just drink on the rocks. It's sweet, but not overly sweet.
It's just sophisticated.

Speaker 1 And to mark 500 years as an icon of the Italian Dolce Vita, DiSorono has released five limited edition bottles. Visit DiSorono.com to learn more.
Drink responsibly.

Speaker 1 1525, the legend of DiSorono begins. I'm going to let you pick the next one.

Speaker 2 Oh, God, I always get nervous that people are going to be mad at the one I pick.

Speaker 1 Well, the one you don't pick will go to Patreon so they'll still hear it.

Speaker 2 Let's go, Patreon.

Speaker 1 Hey, fam, where you at? Where you at?

Speaker 1 So, option number one from our Too Hot Takes subreddit: Am I the asshole for telling my fiancé I won't make his sister a bridesmaid? Or option two,

Speaker 1 also from the two hot takes subreddit, my brother's girlfriend faked a seizure at my wedding. Have I been holding on to this for too long?

Speaker 2 I think the seizure one, I think the seizure one's the one that I'd like to hear. I haven't read it.

Speaker 1 I spiraled based on the title. I'm like,

Speaker 1 what is this about? I'm sorry for any mistakes. I don't post often.
About a year ago, my husband and I got married. My brother, 17 male, brought his girlfriend, 17 female, and I was okay with it.

Speaker 1 However, after the first dance, she faked a seizure because she didn't want to go home. My wedding was on a Sunday and a couple of hours from where we live.

Speaker 1 Her mom said it was time to go and she asked to stay in the hotel with my parents. My mom told her no because the hotel was booked out and the rooms were full.
I have a lot of siblings.

Speaker 1 After the first dance, I was approached by my maid of honor and she informed me that she was having a seizure and I ran to grab two paramedics that are related to me.

Speaker 1 There was also two nurses in there with her. The paramedics instructed me to call 911, so I did, and fire showed up to deal with her.
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 After After everything, they came back out and informed me that she was faking it. Whoa.

Speaker 1 We continued on with the wedding after that, but the vibe was gone and people started leaving. We tried to keep it going with bouquet toss and such, but there was only children there to catch it.

Speaker 1 My brother also missed the rest of the reception because she needed his attention. I started to clean up and she came up to me and gave me and my husband a half-sobbed apology.

Speaker 1 I don't know if I've been holding on to a grudge against her for too long, though. I haven't talked to her since.
My husband and mom have forgiven her, but my dad and I haven't. Thank you in advance.

Speaker 2 So I also don't know the science of seizures, but clearly the experts have weighed in and this was for sure faked. And she's now apologized for it being fake.
This is like...

Speaker 2 Okay, I'm thinking of my brother's wedding and just like how positive it was and how happy everybody was and like how lovely of a night it was and how that's such a special memory for all of us now and just thinking of how upset I would be if someone that I was dating ruined it

Speaker 2 like that's crazy to me yeah and like ruined that like the most important day of like their life and my life to this point just because like that's that was just so beautiful like I can't imagine how fucked up that would be and like how mad I would be if someone that I brought there would do it or anyone if anyone did it i it's so embarrassing it's been two years disrespectful

Speaker 2 it would take me longer about a year ago yeah it would take me long i mean i understand like this is technically a child 17 technically like i we

Speaker 1 maybe shall act differently in the future but this is crazy behavior yeah very selfish i mean at 17 you're getting ready to go to college i can't imagine how you you don't know that faking a medical condition is entirely disrespectful and rude on any day, let alone someone's wedding because you don't want to go home.

Speaker 2 Also, is this, do we know if this person usually gets seizures and that's why it was like believable?

Speaker 1 Or I'm curious if we have any comments for someone. Because that is bold.

Speaker 2 When I was in choir, I would like fantasize about faking fainting so that I could leave, but

Speaker 2 I didn't even have the boldness to do that. I can't imagine faking a seizure at someone's wedding.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So I'm not seeing any comments elaborating on if she has that condition and then so then knew and tried to replicate one.
Yeah. No mention of that.
But we do have a couple comments.

Speaker 1 They were only together four months. So we didn't really have a chance to get to know her.
She hasn't really been given the chance since either.

Speaker 1 Whenever he brings her around, which is rare, everyone asks me, is she the same one from the wedding?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 My cousins are paramedics who were there when I told them she was having a seizure. They told me to call and hand me their baby.

Speaker 1 I was cleaning up because after that, everything came to a screeching halt, and some people started to clean up. And I don't like to see other people cleaning up my messes.

Speaker 1 So my husband and I joined in. It was a whole wedding at a venue two hours away from home that I spent a year planning.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I can't imagine how difficult it would be to like ever have a good relationship with that person.

Speaker 2 I'm shocked that the brother is still with with her.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 Still together.

Speaker 1 Parents won't even let her come in their house.

Speaker 1 It's his longest relationship, not his first girlfriend. She didn't mean any harm and she apologized.

Speaker 1 Anytime anyone tries to talk to him about it, he gets crazy defensive and starts yelling or shutting down.

Speaker 2 I mean, unless she has a really

Speaker 2 And this is like doing a lot of mental gymnastics, unless she has like a really terrible home situation and there's like some really serious reason why she wouldn't want to not go home.

Speaker 2 This is just such an insane, selfish, crazy thing to do.

Speaker 1 It's so in just like the money wasted because everyone left. You spent a year of your life planning, getting excited for something that was totally ruined, like taken away from you.

Speaker 1 Again, the financial side of it, because that hurts. Weddings are expensive.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't be able to get over this, I don't think.

Speaker 2 And I would probably give my brother shit for it all the time. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 I hope it's not his person because that's a really awkward life going forward to deal with like your sister-in-law being that person.

Speaker 2 And I think it just takes so much boldness and audacity to like

Speaker 2 be willing to lie that big, to put on a whole entire show.

Speaker 2 That's a person. That's not a normal person.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 That kind of, that kind of audacity doesn't come around every day.

Speaker 1 No. No, it doesn't.
This is, is, this is a rare form of

Speaker 1 entitlement and unbashedly

Speaker 1 like that word. Put it in there.
Unafraid to be embarrassing. Like,

Speaker 1 hell no. Hell no.
Yeah. Hell no.
There was a video I saw a while ago, and I think it was from a wedding in Minnesota, but ended on my TikTok feed. And it was a guy, they were doing the bouquet toss.

Speaker 1 And the guy did not want his girlfriend to catch it so bad that he ran in, grabbed the bouquet, and like threw it down.

Speaker 1 Oh, uh-oh. And I'm pretty sure the girlfriend was like the maid of honor and it was her sister's wedding.
It was something like really, really nuts.

Speaker 1 And it's like, you just humiliated her. Yeah.
And also just because someone catches the bouquet doesn't doesn't mean you're legally required to not marry. Come on.
Also, if you feel that strongly.

Speaker 2 No, I would be like, oh, so marrying me is your worst nightmare.

Speaker 1 Maybe that's not good. So you hate my guts.
Yeah. Because you, not only do you not want to marry me, and you just showed every single person in the room,

Speaker 1 you were willing to embarrass me, hurt my feelings, embarrass yourself. And ruin my sister's day.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 All over the concept that we might get married. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 Unhinged behavior. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So the top comment on this one, weird logic that she thought her mom would have approved a hotel stay if she had a real seizure.

Speaker 2 Wait, yeah, I briefly was thinking that too. I was like, why would a seizure make it so that she could stay? And then I got distracted by all these things.

Speaker 1 Maybe so she couldn't drive herself home. Oh, okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Her brain was brainin', but like not, not big brainin'.
Yeah. It was bad brainin'.

Speaker 1 Over it.

Speaker 1 Over it.

Speaker 2 Are there any other comments, any updates?

Speaker 1 No updates, no other comments from OP, but hold that grudge.

Speaker 1 I'm okay with you holding that grudge.

Speaker 2 I would really struggle. Unless, like, one day, I mean, I appreciate that she's apologized in tears.
Sometimes we don't get that.

Speaker 2 Like, at least she did realize it was bad. And it is a teenager.

Speaker 1 It is a teenager. Give her some grace.
Give her some grace.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 1 Shit. Maybe, maybe let it go.

Speaker 2 I mean, you don't have to, guys.

Speaker 2 You don't have to let it go.

Speaker 2 I don't think I could let it go, but God, if your brother ends up marrying this person, maybe she's capable of change. And this was like a crazy teenagers can struggle with empathy.

Speaker 1 They can.

Speaker 1 I, you know, empathy is a tough one for a lot of people to learn.

Speaker 1 I see on social media a lot. There are a lot of people out there that don't have empathy.
And I'm going to. look into courses to see if we can make recommendations for people.

Speaker 1 But, you know, prefrontal lobe, not developed yet. You talked about it earlier.
You takes a while.

Speaker 2 That's a huge one. It takes a while to get there.
And then, you know, that's a huge one.

Speaker 1 So if she's still pulling this stuff after 25, 26.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Like maybe she

Speaker 2 didn't think it would become such a big production and she could just like fake a seizure. It'd be like, it's sort of mom, my fever's high.
I can't go to school today.

Speaker 2 Like she thought it would be that level of.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I could see that. Okay.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you for this devil's advocacy.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 1 No, because I could see that where she's like, I'm just going to go in the corner and like have a seizure and then like text my boyfriend that I have to stay here.

Speaker 1 But someone saw it. Bride got informed.
Bride knew there were paramedics there. Right.
Called everyone in, responded appropriately as one would want in an emergency situation. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But she got busted. Yeah.
She got busted. It's hard to say.

Speaker 1 I will say that's probably how the thought process was because she was crying and apologizing at the wedding yeah

Speaker 2 but like they knew it's just that even though the intent i'm sure wasn't to ruin the most important day of someone's life that is what the actions were that is what happened and unfortunately sometimes you have to face the effects of what your actions actually cause even if that wasn't your intent So 100%.

Speaker 1 She's learning. She's learning.
Now she's got awkward boyfriend-in-laws situations, stuff.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just find a family where this isn't in your history, probably.

Speaker 1 Start fresh. You guys are young.
Start someone new. Start fresh.

Speaker 1 You're good.

Speaker 2 Better than being 23% related, though.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 This next one's rough, too. Okay.

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Speaker 1 Last but not least, it is coming from AITAH, two days old. It is titled, Am I the Asshole for Walking Out on a Blind Date My Friend Set Up Two Weeks After My Husband Died? Oh my God.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 1 With friends like these.

Speaker 1 I just really need some clarity on the situation. I, 23 female, lost my husband, 25 male, weeks ago to a car accident.

Speaker 1 He was the love of my life, and I'm still not used to waking up without him every day. We had big plans for our future, and it all came crashing down in a heartbeat.
We met on his uncle's farm.

Speaker 1 He was a farmhand, and it was love at first sight for me. I'm also four months pregnant, but I haven't told anyone.
I was planning on telling my friend when I was feeling a little better.

Speaker 1 My best friend Leah, 24 female, has been my shoulder to cry on during this time.

Speaker 1 She helped me with his funeral and anything else I needed, as I'm no contact with my bio family, but that's a story for another time. Leah is currently dating Barry, 24 male.

Speaker 1 They usually hang out in a trio with another friend, Liam, 24 male. When I first met Liam, he hit on me hard, tried everything, and would try to even compare himself with my husband

Speaker 1 and say weird things like, our kids would be cuter than if you had kids with my husband. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 He's also made weird comments like, I need a city boy, and would motion to himself when I'm a country girl through and through.

Speaker 1 I typically would shut him down or ignore him, but I would always get dirty looks from Barry.

Speaker 1 Okay, Barry, calm down.

Speaker 1 Skip to Sunday night. I got a message from Leah begging me to come to dinner with her because she wanted to treat me as I had been through a lot in the last couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 Feeling not so shit about myself, I decided to go. When I arrived, she wasn't there.
So I texted her asking how long she would be. And she told me five minutes.

Speaker 1 She's just running late and is around the corner. So I sat down and I ordered a drink.
Now five minutes comes and she's still not there.

Speaker 1 So I give her the benefit of the doubt and waited another five minutes. When I'm about to call her, Liam comes rushing over and gives his apologies for being late.
I asked him, What's he doing here?

Speaker 1 Because I'm waiting for Leah and it was a two-chair table. He smiles at me and grabs my hand.
I ripped it off him and he just says, Oh, I asked Leah to set us up.

Speaker 1 Now that husband's name isn't a problem. We can finally get to know each other.
What?

Speaker 1 He looked so cringy, and I'm telling you, I was floored.

Speaker 1 I stood up and I told him that I wasn't interested, and I certainly don't give a flying fuck about getting to know him, and that I had just lost my husband.

Speaker 1 Without a word of a lie, this man stands up and said, I know you're being overly emotional right now, so I'll forgive you for that. Sit down with me.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying we have to have sex straight away or anything.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Oh my god.

Speaker 1 I was disgusted. I shoved past him and went home as fast as I could.
When I did get home, Leah messaged me. So, how was dinner? With a smirk emoji.

Speaker 1 I called her, and when she answered, I didn't let her get a word in.

Speaker 1 I yelled at her and asked her how she has the audacity to do something like this weeks after I just lost my husband, all while she's been the one to hold me together this whole time.

Speaker 1 I asked her what fucking game was she playing, and that the only reason I wanted to meet tonight with her was to tell her I'm pregnant.

Speaker 1 I just hung up on her and texted her that I need time and don't want to be contacted by her for the time being.

Speaker 1 Well, last night, Barry came to my house and asked to talk. What the fuck is going on?

Speaker 1 I'm spiraling.

Speaker 1 I said no, and that if he didn't leave, I would call the police. He told me that I broke Leah's heart and that I deeply hurt Liam.
What the fuck has Liam got to do with it?

Speaker 1 Why are we giving a fuck about Liam?

Speaker 1 And that now it is an even better time to get to know Liam because he could raise my child with me.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. I opened my door, which Barry took as I wanted to talk.
Instead, I hit him with my shoes and chased him to his car screaming. I'm actually embarrassed I did that.
Well, I'm proud.

Speaker 1 I'm happy that you did.

Speaker 1 All day today, I'm being flooded with messages from friends and the trio themselves shaming me for pushing the people who care about me the most away and that they don't even recognize this person I've become.

Speaker 1 The only thing that hurts me the most is that my husband would know what to do. He would tell me how to fix it.
And now I have no one who I can talk to. I'm just so numb inside.

Speaker 1 I have a therapy appointment tomorrow, but I'm thinking of calling my husband's mom, even though we've barely spoken since the funeral. Any advice is appreciated.
Please exude any typos.

Speaker 1 I'm just so exhausted. Okay,

Speaker 2 this is so dehumanizing. Like, I'm sorry, is she a piece of meat?

Speaker 2 This is like the final boss of when you think you have a really good friendship with a guy and then he tries to have sex with you one night. Like, this is, this is like,

Speaker 2 can there not be a situation where I'm just treated as a human? A human who's grieving and going through the worst time in my life without being pawned off like property to a new man?

Speaker 2 Like, what the fuck? This is so heartbreaking and such a betrayal.

Speaker 1 I'm blown away. What friend would do this to their friend?

Speaker 2 No, I can't imagine.

Speaker 2 Two weeks.

Speaker 1 Two weeks. Two weeks.
Two weeks.

Speaker 2 Even a year, I'd be shocked. I'd be like, I never have expressed to you an interest in this guy.
Like, why, why would you do this without there being

Speaker 2 any hint from, like, if you're my best friend, I talked to you about everything,

Speaker 2 you know that I'm not into this guy. Why would you put me in this situation?

Speaker 1 Terrible friend. Terrible, terrible friend.

Speaker 1 And to then have Barry show up on the doorsteps.

Speaker 1 Not even a phone call. On the doorstep.
Oh, you really hurt Leah. You really hurt Leah.
Now is an even better time to get with Liam because he'll raise your baby.

Speaker 2 Fuck, he won't.

Speaker 1 What? What are you talking about? What is wrong with all of them?

Speaker 2 This is so devastating. I can't believe that her friend would do this.
Also, like, it's weird that this is such a thing. Like, this has been a thing in their friendship for so long.

Speaker 2 Like, Barry making looks at her when she rejects Liam's advances. Like, she's done something.
Like, why do people think she is owed to this Liam person?

Speaker 1 I'm.

Speaker 1 I don't get it. It's very don't get it.

Speaker 2 They're acting like she's been promised in a

Speaker 2 verbal agreement via her father that he would be passed to Liam. It's so weird.

Speaker 1 It's insane. And it's like, Liam can find someone else.
Let this person grieve. Like, I don't know why these people are taking this as, like, oh, well, he's dead now.
Great time, Liam. Swoop in.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, this is your only shot. If you genuinely cared about someone, genuinely, right? You would wait however long it took.
You wouldn't be the one

Speaker 1 making creepy passes and bringing up sex.

Speaker 1 Sit down. We don't have to have sex straight away.

Speaker 2 We will never be, we will never be having sex.

Speaker 1 Let me tell you that much. Never.

Speaker 2 And I would not trust

Speaker 2 her getting drunk in a situation with her closest friends. If Liam's there, it feels like she could be like blacked out drunk and they would send her off in the car with him.
No.

Speaker 2 That's like the energy of this.

Speaker 1 Yes. They'll do anything to make this happen so that they can be like

Speaker 1 a little four posse

Speaker 1 couple, like double couple, whatever. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Weird, weird. And you just know, like, I feel like I came across a story recently

Speaker 1 or some, maybe it was a TikTok. Everything kind of blurs together nowadays because I see so much.
But there was someone who

Speaker 1 a friend was trying to set them up only a couple months. after their partner passed.
And it's like, not appropriate. Like,

Speaker 1 let that person come to you and like have a conversation of like, I think I'm ready to, you know, maybe get back out there.

Speaker 2 Like, this is a hard decision. Like, it's hard.
It feels weird, but I think I'm ready to maybe try to find someone else.

Speaker 2 Even if my friend went through a regular breakup, no deaths involved, I wouldn't be pushing them, shocking them with a blind date two weeks later.

Speaker 2 Like, even just that, they would be like, unless they were asking to date and date specifically that person.

Speaker 2 And like, this is so much crazier. Her husband died.
Her husband died in like an out of nowhere shocking way.

Speaker 2 If my friend broke up with her boyfriend and it was normal and they had like a fine breakup, but she was like sad about it,

Speaker 2 I wouldn't even do this to her.

Speaker 1 Like I would ask, are you ready to start dating?

Speaker 2 Like that's crazy. No.

Speaker 2 Sometimes the way to get over someone is not to get under Liam.

Speaker 2 Let me tell you that much.

Speaker 1 Avoid Liam as far as possible. Yeah.
Hell no.

Speaker 1 And drop all the friends, especially not just these ones, but especially the friends that are texting you, seeing, like saying you should give him a chance or whatever, pressuring you. New friends.

Speaker 1 All new friends.

Speaker 2 What is there about this Liam guy where everyone is like, oh, yeah. He deserves to have this woman.
Like he deserves to have the woman he wants.

Speaker 2 Like she's like some kind of object that he can just win by being liked by the friends. I don't understand it.
Like, oh, he likes her so much. He should just have her.

Speaker 1 What about her feelings? I wonder if there's maybe some sort of like classism happening.

Speaker 1 I got the vibe that this wasn't happening in the U.S. Maybe it is.

Speaker 2 But like

Speaker 1 he was a farm boy. He worked on a farm, a farmhand.
Liam's a city boy. It's giving like.

Speaker 1 It's giving there's maybe some class difference here or something. I don't know.

Speaker 1 And like, you're too good for your ex. You should date Liam.
Liam can provide you with things. Like, it's just weird and it's very odd.

Speaker 2 It's always so shocking to me in these stories when, like,

Speaker 2 it's so clear that someone is doing something fucked up, but then they'll say at the end, and all of my friends are yelling at me, and all of my friends think I did something wrong.

Speaker 2 This happens way more than it should.

Speaker 1 And why is that?

Speaker 2 When then everyone on Reddit's like, no, they're in the wrong. But then everyone in your life thinks this person is in the right for this.

Speaker 1 I feel like it's, you're getting a different story. Like the people who think Liam is in the right or the other people are in the right are getting a way different story.

Speaker 1 But like that's the only way, right? Like that's got to be the only way.

Speaker 2 For sure. But how could you ever spin this when her husband died two weeks ago? And that is public common knowledge amongst everyone who knows these people.

Speaker 2 Like I just can't, I can't see how they're spinning this one. Maybe other stories I could see how they could be telling it differently.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Leah being like, well, she said like she wanted to, you know, get to know Liam and she's pregnant.
She makes me support.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. She does not know.
You never know how crazy people will get.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Top comment: not the asshole a thousand times. That is way too soon for any of that.
Sorry. I know women and it has been years and they are still not dating.
And I'm so sorry for your loss.

Speaker 1 You need time to grieve. Take the time you need.
There is no timeline for it. Take care of yourself and your child.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Next comment. What the holy hell? Throw that entire friend group in the garbage.
No respect for your feelings. No respect for your boundaries.
No respect for your loss. Not the asshole.

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry for your loss.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it doesn't feel like she's an equal in this friend group. It almost seems like she's just a little, like a pawn that can be traded off to people as like a congratulatory prize.

Speaker 1 Why does it feel like that?

Speaker 2 I don't know. It doesn't feel like she's seen as an equal to them.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Like almost like a plaything. Your feelings, your emotions.
It doesn't matter. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You'll be fine.

Speaker 1 Liam will fix you up.

Speaker 2 Liam's crying over not having his toy.

Speaker 1 You really hurt Liam's feelings. Yeah.
By walking out.

Speaker 1 Ew, that's so fucked.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 we have an update. An update?

Speaker 2 I wasn't even expecting this.

Speaker 1 Update was posted 20 hours ago. Oh my God.
Yay.

Speaker 1 Hello, all, and thank you. I just wanted to start off with: I called my mother-in-law, Louise, after making the post.

Speaker 1 I thought that I needed to tell her about baby because, just like some of you said, she is overjoyed about the news.

Speaker 1 She didn't answer my call, but instead drove straight over to my house. I honestly didn't know what to say to her, but we just hugged and cried all night.

Speaker 1 I didn't have the best delivery about how I told her I'm pregnant, probably due to all the crying, but she just lit up and was so happy.

Speaker 1 It's the first time I've seen her this happy in all the time I've known her. So at least I have some support.

Speaker 1 My father-in-law came over when he finished work, and mother-in-law told him he needed to come to my house, and he too was overjoyed about becoming a pop.

Speaker 1 Louise offered to have the baby and I move in, and I agreed. She said that I can sleep in my husband's old room, which was a little bittersweet.

Speaker 1 When I told her what was going on with Leah, Liam, and Barry, she was furious and told me not to worry about it because they, mother-in-law and father-in-law, have my back.

Speaker 1 After a lot of even more crying, father-in-law told me that my husband would be so happy to have this baby grow up on a farm like my husband did.

Speaker 1 Overall, our conversation last night was something I really needed. Now, Michaela, why are we both crying?

Speaker 1 Now I'm just going to answer some comments. One, no, this is not fake.
If you choose to believe that, then that's fine, but don't be dragging my husband when you don't even know him.

Speaker 1 Liam didn't kill my husband. It was a car accident.
And my husband died on impact. Nothing crazy went on.
It's just awful, but it's as simple as that. Two, Leah was my friend for a long time.

Speaker 1 She was genuinely there for me when I went no contact with my parents. And I thought she was a decent friend.

Speaker 1 Now, knowing the truth, there's many things I can think of that she did that are red flags.

Speaker 1 I personally think I ignored them because I've never even been close to anyone like that other than my husband. Three, Liam is a loser.

Speaker 1 And from my chat with Barry, I learned that he's always had feelings for me and he's never given up because apparently he's my type. Huh? He isn't and never will be.

Speaker 1 Four, yeah, I ordered a drink. I didn't think I needed to disclose that I ordered lemonade.
It was simply a soda, nothing wild. I know I'm pregnant.
I'd never do anything silly.

Speaker 1 Five, I'm not magically pregnant. My husband and I both wanted children young and we were trying for about a year.

Speaker 1 We just didn't disclose that we were trying because my husband and I think it's weird telling people, oh, we're having sex an extra amount.

Speaker 1 I don't know, but my husband and I are very private people, and I kept a lot of it that way. As for the trio, I've blocked them.
Hell yeah.

Speaker 1 None of my family are reaching out because they simply don't know me anymore. The only friends who are reaching out are mutuals of either Leah, Barry, and one of Liam's other friends.

Speaker 1 I was confused on if I was the asshole because I just left Liam standing there and yelled at Leah.

Speaker 1 I was so upset. I was confused on the entire thing.
But thank you all. And I will update on what happens because I know Liam will not give up until he's in jail.

Speaker 1 I seriously hope it doesn't come to that. But the fact he drove past my house twice is uneasy.
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 So I'm hopeful the move to my husband's parents' farm will have me and baby and myself on a better path.

Speaker 2 I really like this because I do feel that so much of the negative side of mother-in-laws can be shown in these stories. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I think this is such a lovely example of how like it can actually be a really beautiful thing

Speaker 2 to have a mother and father-in-law in your family and to like have that kind of relationship because it's really nice how they're showing up for her and how they are on her side and how they have this familial.

Speaker 2 I don't know if that's how you say it, familial bond now.

Speaker 1 So I love it too. I'm like fully on board.
Like they're going to have their little village. She's got support.
She's got her husband's family. They're getting like a little piece of their son back

Speaker 1 and can help their daughter-in-law. Like, this is beautiful.
This is

Speaker 1 like such a tragic situation. And to have something good come out of it, a family growing closer in a lot of ways.
And I mean, just terrible, but so,

Speaker 1 so, so good. And especially now considering you have Liam stalking her.
Yeah, that's scary. Stalking, driving by your house.

Speaker 2 Obviously, how she was addressing some of the comments, there were people speculating Liam murdering her husband in the comments.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 1 It did come into my head, you guys. It came into my head too.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 2 And then I was like, no, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 That's crazy. I was like, I'm not even going to say it out loud.
That's so nuts. That's so nuts.
I was literally like, what if Liam like arranged the car accident? Like, I, so nuts. So nuts.

Speaker 1 I didn't say it. So I get where people said we're deranged.
Like, you, we hear these Reddit stories all the time.

Speaker 2 And like our Oh my god, yeah, especially the other one.

Speaker 1 We spiral. We spiral.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. I understand the inclination to go there because for a moment I was tempted.
I'm sure that that isn't what happened, but he is a freak.

Speaker 1 He's a freak.

Speaker 2 He's scary. And

Speaker 2 they're another instance of just really lacking empathy and really

Speaker 2 just like not seeing this woman as a human person.

Speaker 1 No. There's a couple comments from OP.
I'll read. O.P.
goes, Leah is the kind of woman who can't be single. I hope that explains her point of view.

Speaker 2 See, and this is, this is what I struggle with because I am a person who is very comfortable being single.

Speaker 1 I loved being single.

Speaker 2 I didn't date or whatever anything for like three years, and I was totally fine.

Speaker 1 That was me after my last like serious relationship until meeting Justin. I took three years and I needed that.
I needed that time to heal.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I don't understand.

Speaker 2 I mean, I know that some people, yeah, you got to date someone to get over someone else sometimes, I guess, but I also think it's very good to be with yourself and to like heal on your own and not have someone else be, you know, the conduit for your healing and then have it be relying on them and then sort of be fused to that person now.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 whatever you can do to feel better, whatever, do what you need to do. But I don't understand this, like, forcing that on her.

Speaker 1 No. And I, again, I don't think there's a timeline.
for grief like a lot of the comments pointed out.

Speaker 1 I think it would have been totally different if this was like three months from now and she's feeling lonely and wants some intimacy.

Speaker 1 That's so different than like someone getting her to show up at a dinner under false pretenses, tricking her with a guy she doesn't even like and thinks is weird and has made weird comments previously.

Speaker 1 And after two weeks, there's that's crazy.

Speaker 2 There's no reason to not tell her that she's going to be on a date unless you're tricking her and know that she wouldn't want to do it.

Speaker 2 Like even if my friends were setting me up on a blind date, they would tell me, hey, you're going to meet your blind date at dinner tonight at seven. Yeah.

Speaker 2 They wouldn't be like, we're hanging out with you tonight and then surprise me with a blind date unless they're doing it for someone else and not me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I am setting a friend up on a blind date right now. And like there is a process to do it right.
I will tell you. I will tell you.
And consent is involved on all parties' sides. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like you can't just spring this on people.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 It's so rude and disrespectful. And I do think if you blindside someone like this, like you don't care about them.
No. Even if you're doing it for their own good.

Speaker 1 and oh, they'd never so many levels, blah blah blah. No, like people have the right to consent to going on a date, and people should be able to choose who they spend time with.

Speaker 2 Also, when you're experiencing that much grief, like leaving the house is so difficult.

Speaker 2 God, yes, and the and like she said, the only reason that she was even willing to leave the house was because it was with this friend that she trusted in this situation and was like helping her through the grief of this moment.

Speaker 2 It's like, yeah, oh my god, leave her alone.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 one last comment I'll read from OP.

Speaker 1 A lot of people are very concerned about Liam, especially given the stocking. So people are like, what are you going to do about Liam? Like, please stay safe.
Like, he's obsessed with her. Obsessed.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And OP goes, I told Liam if he came anywhere near me, I'd shoot him.

Speaker 2 She's a farm girl, city boy.

Speaker 1 Bit violent, but hopefully he gets the hint. Well,

Speaker 1 hey, take that hint, buddy. Take that hint.
Take that fucking hint. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 No means no, Liam and Leah and Barry.

Speaker 1 To drive by someone's house multiple times.

Speaker 2 No, it's actually unhinged. And I think he's like been obsessed with her for so long.
And then her husband dies. And he's like, oh, this is a sign from the universe.

Speaker 2 They're finally giving me what I asked for.

Speaker 1 This is not a sign. No.
This is a stop sign. If it's a sign.

Speaker 2 Stop. No, this is just a terrible tragedy actually that has nothing to do with you and your weird obsession.

Speaker 1 So weird. Why are people so weird?

Speaker 2 Many such cases today.

Speaker 1 Many such cases. I know.
I've, I was spiraling on my own, so I'm glad you were here to help me. I'm glad we spiraled together.
I know. All of us in this together.

Speaker 1 I just have, I feel like I went through so many peaks and valleys and a lot of plateaued at the top, I think, during this episode.

Speaker 1 And there were so many things that I like want listeners to chime in on. Like, obviously, the fertility clinic questions.
Right.

Speaker 1 If you've ever like gone through like a loss, what's like the most crude thing someone's done? Like, how soon did they set you up with someone?

Speaker 1 Because I know there's listeners out there that have gone through this personally. And like, if you feel like any of these stories relate to you today, please comment.

Speaker 1 Please chime in because I can't keep spiraling alone. Yeah, that was a lot.

Speaker 2 And then at the end, we were both crying

Speaker 1 because it was like so sad.

Speaker 2 And then there was like kind of the beauty in it with the family. And it's like,

Speaker 1 you know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 This was a really, really

Speaker 1 crazy episode.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you took us all through it today, Morgan.

Speaker 1 I know. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 I'm like trying to see if I have a quick palette cleanser to like find a loved one and fix things a little bit.

Speaker 1 So I do have a folder going. It's like feel good.

Speaker 2 That's such a good idea.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 This one. Small little token of kindness to lighten the mood for us all.
Okay.

Speaker 1 This is coming from Goodable. I think it's an account that just posts like reminders that like the smallest things can have the biggest impact.
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 I love that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, really cool. It's literally like good and able smushed together if you want to go find it.

Speaker 1 But this is actually coming from Reddit and they blocked out the username, so I can't find the post or whatever it came from. But a really small thing, but I hope I remember it forever.

Speaker 1 My son was probably two or three, and we went to the mall for some reason. My son liked looking at displays and stuff.

Speaker 1 Well, there was a model train set in a case that you could put a dollar in and watch them go around for a while. I was pretty broke, if I recall, and I never had cash on me regardless.

Speaker 1 He was content just looking at the display. A group of loud mall teams came through and go past us.

Speaker 1 One of them comes back and puts a dollar in the machine and says, quote, I was liked watching trains too, then hurries off back to his friends.

Speaker 1 Why is this person?

Speaker 2 Oh no, you're in ruins.

Speaker 1 My son lit lit up. I never would have expected that action from a stranger, let alone a teen with his friends in a mall.

Speaker 2 That's so. Have you ever heard that Christmas song where it's like they were, they were they were struggling and one of the sons wanted this pair of shoes.

Speaker 1 Oh, and then a stranger

Speaker 2 and then the stranger buys the shoes for him. Oh my God, it's a country song, isn't it? It's like, it's like, I think it's a, I think it's a Christmas song, but it might, but it might also be country.

Speaker 1 You're in pieces.

Speaker 2 I'm going to lose it, dude.

Speaker 1 It's shark week for me right now. I'm just like, I want to lose it.
Okay, it's called The Christmas Shoes.

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. That one tore me up.
That one, that song has always torn me up.

Speaker 1 It's by New Song.

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 1 Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 Okay. I'm not going to play any more

Speaker 2 for copyright. Yeah, but you guys know.

Speaker 1 It's literally called The Christmas Shoes. Go cry.

Speaker 1 Sir, I want to buy these shoes for my mama, please. Oh, God.

Speaker 2 We, yeah. No, that song.
Actually, also, I definitely started singing the wrong song. I started singing that.
I went skydiving. I went Rocky Mountain Clining song for a while.

Speaker 1 To McGrath.

Speaker 2 Also, a good one. But that song, I remember hearing for the first time in the radio with my mom when I was like a child, and we both started bawling.

Speaker 1 The song is dark. It's sad.

Speaker 2 Oh, is it?

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's Christmas Eve, and these shoes are just her size.
Could you hurry, sir? Daddy says there's not much time. You see, she's been sick for quite a while.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. I forgot that element.

Speaker 1 I forgot about that part. The hell.
We tried to end on such a happy note.

Speaker 2 I thought you knew. I thought you knew this song too.

Speaker 1 I did know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I know these shoes would make her smile. And I want her to look beautiful if Mama Meets Jesus tonight.
Oh, yeah. Okay.
I forgot.

Speaker 1 I forgot how sad it was.

Speaker 2 Sorry, Wait.

Speaker 2 This pulled out that feeling. This story pulled out that feeling.
I forgot that the mom was dying.

Speaker 1 I didn't remember that part about it. Okay.
Well, here's something I was going to keep in the, under wraps for a little while longer. But

Speaker 1 I'm trying to find a way to do angel trees this year.

Speaker 1 So angel trees, I don't know if it's trademarked. So if it is, I won't be calling it that name.
Don't worry. But angel trees is something.
Oh my God. I'm just crying tears.

Speaker 1 It's real. Angel Trees is something Walmart does every year.

Speaker 1 So if you or someone you know or your family, like whatever, is struggling and can't afford gifts or clothes or whatever this holiday season,

Speaker 1 you can go to Walmart. And I believe now is actually the time to go and fill out the tree.
So if you're hearing this and it fits, please go to Walmart and fill out your tree.

Speaker 1 But you put your kids' age, what they would like, things like that.

Speaker 1 And someone can go to the store, do all the shopping, add extra goodies if they want, and then check out, and then they give the cart to Walmart and Walmart makes sure that it gets to the family.

Speaker 2 Why is that so cute? Yeah, we used to do that. We did it through my school, actually.

Speaker 1 Salvation Army does something similar.

Speaker 2 Or is it the shoebox one too? I used to do it. The shoebox is really big.

Speaker 1 The Minnesota Vikings do a big holiday Christmas thing.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of organizations that have really, really great holiday programs. Yeah.
I want to do something this holiday season.

Speaker 1 So I'm trying to figure out whether we do it through Amazon carts and like people can build a cart and then you can hide your address and let people just check out of your cart for you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to find a way we can do it online because the two hot tachians were really spread out. Yeah.
And I've never called you guys that. What was that? I don't know.

Speaker 2 I didn't. I was like, maybe that is what she calls them.
That's new.

Speaker 1 The two hot takeans. I'm having a bit of a moment here.
The tachians. The tachians

Speaker 2 sort of sounds like a dune, like

Speaker 2 I don't. Like a species in dune.

Speaker 1 I don't hate it.

Speaker 1 I kind of love it as a Catanian.

Speaker 1 But if any of you guys have tips for me on how to facilitate this, if you've used like a teacher list work thing, you know, in the past, like please let me know.

Speaker 1 But I really want to give back to our community this holiday season. And I know there's a lot of us out there that want to participate.
So please let me know.

Speaker 2 And listening to that song song will definitely get people in the mood.

Speaker 1 Maybe we'll create a video and I'll reach out to Newsong and say, hey,

Speaker 1 can I use this song as the background?

Speaker 1 But I mean, the holidays are really tough. And as we said, like, we don't know how everyone's going to be feeling after this episode comes out.
So

Speaker 1 it could be a really tough, tough time for a lot of people. So

Speaker 1 that being said, you know, look for local charities near you if you don't want to do something online. There's amazing things out there.
And, you know, the holidays are tough for a lot of people.

Speaker 1 Even if you just do a Thanksgiving, you know, dinner volunteer thing and go sit with someone while they eat a meal. I used to do that every year in Duluth at the deck.
It still goes on.

Speaker 1 So if you're in Duluth area or Minnesota and want to take a trip up.

Speaker 2 And if you're doing like reasonably well financially, it's like, okay, I'm going to spend a little bit less on like.

Speaker 2 uber eats this week or like i'm going to eat out like two less times this month and then you use that money for something really really special like even that one dollar has stuck with that family I know for so long and I think that that's such a beautiful mindset to have and it's proven like doing that kind of thing is also good for your own mental health so I think it's just back to what we were saying in the beginning a good way to live your life a good way to view the world absolutely absolutely yeah share something positive in the comments today if you don't want to chime in about anything else but yeah that'd be so lovely to hold like a moment that probably felt significant or insignificant to someone else but like really stuck with you i would love that yeah let's get more dollar stories yeah that'd really raise the vibes that would really help the vibes come on guys help the vibe help the vibe oh my god okay i've kept you for so long michaela thank you so much for being here i love to be here oh thank you for having me It's like, it's my honor.

Speaker 1 I feel like it's my honor every time you come on. But where can everyone find you?

Speaker 2 I'm Michaela Oakland on Instagram, and I also co-host the Late Night Drive podcast. And you are She Rates Doggyan.
I am, but I don't really post on there that much anymore.

Speaker 1 Let's get back to it, girl. Should I?

Speaker 1 Now is the time. People need comedic relief.

Speaker 1 Oh, God. Yeah.
She rates dogs, everyone. 2025 is its year.

Speaker 2 Okay. Big, we're bringing her back.

Speaker 1 We're resurrecting. She rates dogs.

Speaker 1 I think there's some merch. The great resurrection.
The great resurrection. She rates dogs.

Speaker 2 Who let the dogs out?

Speaker 1 Again.

Speaker 1 Who let the dogs out? Who? Who? Who? Who? Okay, I like that. Bringing it back.

Speaker 1 Other than that,

Speaker 1 Patreon content, November. It's going to be good.

Speaker 1 Keep posted on the angel tree dupe I'm doing. I don't know what I'm going to call it yet.
Other than that, until next time.

Speaker 1 Bye guys.