HTDE: How To Make Lasagna Without An Oven, with Peter Sagal

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Hey, can I ask, is there somebody there who can help me with a cooking question about lasagna?

Yeah, I can help you.

Okay, we're making lasagna

and we want to get all the ingredients right.

Here's the trick.

We're making it in the dishwasher.

What?

Silarise, may I help you?

Hi, I have a question.

It's a food cooking question.

Is there somebody who could help me with lasagna, with a lasagna recipe question?

Well, we don't do lasagna.

But, oh, okay.

We have pasta, like mustacholi, reggattoni, spaghetti.

Have you, wait we're gonna make this lasagna in the dishwasher?

No.

Do you have any advice?

No, no.

I don't know nothing about the dishwasher and nothing else.

In Grand Appliance and TV in Chicago, Illinois.

Please listen carefully.

Grand Appliance, this is Colby.

How can I help you?

Hey, we're trying to, we're looking for a dishwasher.

We want to see which is the best dishwasher that we can use to cook a lasagna

The best dishwasher to cook a lasagna?

Yeah, have you ever heard of this

Are you you you cover it and put it in the dishwasher and hit go exactly right you take the noodles you put all the things down and you wrap it in three pieces of foil and then you put it in the dishwasher.

You want to put it flat and apparently you have to run it for a full cycle.

At the end of that, you have edible lasagna.

I believe it.

Anything that hits sanitary level of like, I think 162 degrees or something.

Mm-hmm.

So use the sanitize, hit the sanitize if it has that.

Because that's a specific degree to be recognized as

sanitization or whatever.

Yeah, yeah.

Can I ask you another question?

One recipe I read said you have to put detergent in it.

so that it will run for the full cycle.

Is that true?

No, no, you definitely don't do that if you're going to eat it.

That's what I thought.

Would you eat lasagna out of a dishwasher?

I'm from Southern Illinois, so I'd probably.

I've eaten much worse.

Yeah, I'd do it.

I also heard, you ever use cottage cheese in your lasagna?

No.

Check that out.

It's really

next level.

Okay.

But yeah.

Would it void the warranty of the dishwasher, do you think, to make lasagna in it?

No.

I mean, I don't see how it would i just wouldn't tell anybody yeah all right

this is how to do everything i'm ian and i'm mike coming up how to burp but first dishwasher lasagna on our other show the other show we work on wait wait don't tell me we recently did a story about uh how some people say the best way, the best place to cook a steak is in your dishwasher.

So this got us curious, curious, what else can you cook in your dishwasher?

We looked around and we found a recipe for lasagna.

We're going to make some and then we're going to feed it to our official taste tester, Peter Sagal.

You'll know we're in the office kitchen when we start speaking in hushed tones.

So the recipe says we need three sheets of foil.

Okay, so that's three sheets.

We're gonna then put the lasagna.

So I guess we want three sheets to protect it from the dishwasher-ness of all of this.

So yeah, we want to avoid contact with any of that stuff that I just assume swirls around in the dishwasher once you run it.

I usually wash my dishes in the sink, so I would be cooking the lasagna in the sink, just running hot water over it.

For three and a half hours, two and a half hours.

Whatever it takes.

Yeah, a long time.

That was really good sound.

Thanks.

I always feel like audio is the best medium for cooking demonstrations.

Sound based.

Was it you who said sound is the most visual medium?

What I said was, as Mike said, sound is the most visual medium.

And I was quoting you.

I think go all the way to the edge, right?

So I'm just going to spread this out over the noodles.

It's interesting, right?

Because usually you try to get the food off your plates before it goes in the dishwasher, but now we're...

We want as much food as possible in the dishwasher so that the most food comes out.

Yeah, instead of scraping our food into the garbage before we put it in the dishwasher, we're scraping our our food out of the bar.

We're using the food to create garbage, which we're going to feed to Peter.

So I brought these herbs.

I'm just going to put some on here.

Sure.

Why not?

I think anything to mask the centuries of Tide Pots that have gone through the dishwasher.

I think we want a lot of garlic.

Okay, I'm going to sprinkle on.

This is just some dread basil.

Now you can do whatever kind of Italian spices you want.

I like these three.

So this seems, this is

flavor-blasted lasagna.

So we're, right now we're folding it all up

around the lasagna to make sure we get a good seal.

Oh, you're going to kind of roll it up.

Do you want to get, you want to get all the

outside?

Yeah.

All right, so then I'm going to roll this.

This feels good to me.

This feels like we've accounted for any potential water access points.

We may not be right.

We may discover that there were some that we forgot.

It's like it's a little bit cooking, it's a little bit dishwashing, it's a little bit origami.

Origami.

yeah, that's right.

It's a little bit ending a friendship.

Closing it up.

I'm going to leave the detergent capsule empty.

No detergent.

Okay, so we're going to put it on sanitized.

That gets us our highest heat.

Okay, there's a button that says extra shine.

So do we want?

Yeah, why not?

Okay.

Wait, there is a button here that says al dente.

Okay, we're going to fast forward here.

Yeah, we're not gonna sit here for two and a half hours while the lasagna washes.

Yeah, but if you want to get a feel for what we're doing, just go ahead and stare at your dishwasher for the next two and a half hours.

If you don't have a dishwasher, you can also stare at your refrigerator.

Any appliance, just make sure

not to break eye contact with the appliance for two and a half hours.

The full cycle.

All right, here we go.

We're gonna open the dishwasher.

I can still...

The door is still hot.

Oh, boy.

The aluminum foil has changed color.

It really has, right?

Dulled.

It got stiff?

Did it get heavier?

Okay, I uh I think it got heavier.

Okay, we put the lasagna on a plate.

We are running it into the studio where Peter Sagal is waiting, and he has no idea what we're about to feed him.

It looks like a normal, not very good lasagna.

All right, Peter, you're here.

I am.

So what do you see before you?

I see before me what I would have to say looks like maybe

a one or two layer lasagna.

That is what I would describe it as.

Yeah.

That's what it is.

Yeah.

It's lasagna.

I'm rotating it slowly.

Yeah.

Yes, I'm seeing now, as we rotate, I see the lasagna noodle.

I see the

thing seem unusual about it.

Well, all right, I'm going to give you an honest answer.

I'm rotating in the manner of like a diamond to like a commercial.

It's like slowly spinning.

Nothing per se.

Okay, go ahead and cut into it.

Cut yourself a piece.

Before I do this, and I'm going to do it no matter how you answer this, but I just want to be prepared.

Will anything scream?

In the lasagna?

In the lasagna.

Not.

Not you?

Yes.

So I'm just like, there's no living creature in here.

Everything should be okay.

Everything should be okay.

Okay.

I just want to say

that when Ian asked me to come in today and do this, he said, come hungry.

All right.

Oh, God.

All right.

I am chewing it, as the audience may hear.

And it doesn't taste good, but kind of a humid feel to it.

It's a humid feel to it.

It's a little soggy, maybe.

The afternoon

is kind of a little locker roomy.

A humid locker room?

That makes sense.

Do you think so?

Just like, I mean, let me put it this way: if I were served this perhaps in a restaurant, I might push it slowly away and

then do the thing where you cut it and so it looks like you've eaten it, so I don't want to offend the server.

You wouldn't send it back.

That entirely depends on what you tell me.

Nothing, there is.

I mean, there could be, depending on what you say, there could be, I could send it back, I could snap out, I could sue them, depending on what well, it won't take effect for another five minutes.

All right, well, Peter, let me tell you, we made it

not in an oven,

but

in the dishwasher.

Ah.

Ah.

Let me ask you,

in, I'm, what did, what, did, was it just, was it just sitting there?

Like, so that's why it feels wet.

Oh, it was wrapped in disgust.

It was wrapped in multiple layers of aluminum foil.

And then, like, folded over and sealed.

I want to have a bite.

Do you want to have a bite?

I will have a bite.

We'll see.

Let me just bring up Google Translate because I think it's worth knowing what this dish would be called

in Italian.

La lasagna di something.

What's the dishwasher?

Oh, it actually, see, the Italian name,

lasagna de la la vastoville.

You'd eat that.

You'd say, if somebody came out and said, yeah, with that accent, if that guy came out, if that guy said, oh, on our special today, lasagna de la la vastovilla.

You'd be like, aren't we lucky, honey, that we have come in when the special today is the precious.

Lasagna de la la vastovilla.

Yeah.

So now what part of the cow is the lazovilla?

Peter,

five-star rating, what do you give this?

With all apologies to both you, the dishwasher, and the Google Translate AI voice, it's not good.

Yeah.

You know, it's not inedible if I was very, very hungry and I didn't want to offend the person who gave it to me.

Okay, prove it.

it.

Neither of those conditions apply.

We want to remind you, if you have a question or something you need help with, send it to us.

Send us your questions at howto at npr.org.

You can also, if you have an idea for something we can feed to Peter unwittingly, you can also send that to howto at npr.org.

Don't send the food itself

as an attachment, but maybe just suggest the food in words and we will make it in a dishwasher.

Whatever it is, send it to us at howto at npr.org.

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Hey, if you'll remember an episode ago, we offered to be your out-of-office email contact.

Bearing in mind, we don't know how to do anything, but you can put this out-of-office message, which we'll put once again in our show notes for you.

Put that in your email.

And if anybody reaches out to us, we'll try and help them.

And we've actually been getting some of these out-of-office emails.

One of them came from Amanda.

The subject of the email was request for final case counts from August 29th, 2025.

So let's do it.

Let's call her up and see if we can help her out.

I don't think we're going to be able to.

I don't even.

Yeah, we don't, we will not have those case counts.

The Bottlemeister, this is Amanda.

Hey, Amanda, it's Mike and Ian calling.

We got your email from an out of office forward.

You were looking for the final case counts from August 29th.

Does that ring a bell?

And where are you calling from?

I'm afraid I have no idea.

I can read you the email if you want, if that helps.

Yes, I guess it would help me.

Thank you.

Okay, so what you wrote was: hello, I'm currently working on the invoice for bottling that was done on 8-29, 2025.

It looks like we still do not have your case counts.

Please send me your final case counts so I may adjust your invoice correctly.

Thank you, Amanda, the bottlemeister.

Oh, I think it was from.

Is that a good

do you work with them a lot?

We do and then they did I did contact someone else and they gave me the correct email

Okay, yeah, because we

hopefully it said in the out-of-office message that Mike and I don't don't actually know anything we just were offering to help

yes I remember now

yes and so when I spoke with her she gave me a different one

interesting okay so they got back in the office then and then they relieved us of our duties yes from my understanding, you guys are off the hook.

Okay, can I ask, what kind of business do you do?

What are you bottling?

It's wine.

Oh, so they made wine and then you put it in bottles for them?

We sure do.

What kind of wine was it?

Was it any good?

That I do not know.

Well, thanks, Amanda.

Thank you, and I appreciate the follow-through.

So it's working.

We're not, we are not working, but the the system is working.

Yep.

We also got one from Amanda McLaughlin.

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That's a good question.

I will say my car that I currently have is at this moment at the mechanic, and they discovered that rodents had been eating the engine.

Are you serious?

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Just send us your best offer for a 2021 Subaru cross-trek with an engine compartment filled with rats.

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And again, everybody out there, put us as your out-of-office email contact, and we will do our best to help.

We'll do our best.

Hey, JP, what can we help you with?

So my question centers around the fact that I, oddly enough, can't burp.

So I've wondered for years now if it's how to burp.

Like if it's something that

can be taught or if it's just something for me that I'm not able to do or what the what's going on there.

Have you ever burped?

So what I what happens when I have like post food or a soda or something like that,

I might have like what I describe as like gurgling noises that I feel like

fill in the gap for what would be a burp.

Yeah, I think I've heard that before.

Could we could we ask you to demonstrate the gurgling noise as best you can?

I wish I could, like, it's not a sound I can really recreate because it comes from like my chest.

So it sounds maybe like this is it's not like the it's not that you never learned how to burp, it's just that you physically can't do it.

Yeah, exactly.

And is this is it is it emotional?

Do you do you feel left out of the burping world?

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Because I feel like I get indigestion.

I have the feeling of what I would think would be like the necessity to burp, but it just doesn't.

I just want to say that

about 20 seconds ago, I just burped.

Did you really?

I really did.

And I wonder if it was like a sympathetic burp.

Oh,

like a yawn.

Have you burped at all?

I think it would be rude.

Personally, I think it would be rude to do it at all in this professional setting, but also in front of JP, who is longing

to be able to

do what you just did willy-nilly, as if it were nothing.

And then I just want to apologize to both of you for doing something that is rude, but then specifically to JP

for kind of showing off.

I appreciate the empathy.

So

we're going to do our best to get to the bottom of this, hopefully solve this problem for you Can I ask you a favor?

Sure next time you feel this this sound this froggy sound coming on could you call

our do we have a voicemail Hina?

Yeah, we have a voicemail and just do the sound into the phone Totally Okay, well we're gonna we're gonna see what we can do here JP and we're our goal is to get you burping as quickly as possible.

I appreciate that.

Okay, so JP JP did send us a voice memo.

Let's listen to it.

I don't,

there's no journalistic reason to do this, but

I would like to listen to that again.

Let's play it one more time.

And

that's pretty good.

Let's slow it down

also.

Hina, can you put a little beat under that?

All right, we have somebody on the line who hopefully can help JP.

Dr.

Michael Lerner is an ear, nose, and throat doctor with Yale Medicine.

So, Michael, what do you have for us?

So I'll start by saying that

what I'm about to say is not a substitute for medical advice for JP specifically.

Sure.

But as far as if someone came to me and said that they can't burp or were unable to ever burp, you're not alone.

You know, that kind of description wasn't traditionally considered like a symptom.

If you go to the doctor and say, I can't burp, you know, in the past, folks would have said, okay, that's not a thing.

But it turns out that it is a thing.

And only in 2019, so not too long ago, a condition was described in which people couldn't burp.

And

does this have a name, this condition?

So it's called colloquially or by, you know, by patients, no burp syndrome.

So the name really is easy to understand.

The medical terminology obviously can get a little jargony, but it's called retrograde cricopharyngeous dysfunction.

The cricopharyngeous muscle is really the valve or the sphincter on top of the esophagus or esophagi.

So basically, it's supposed to relax to vent.

air that's building up in our stomachs or digestive tract.

So when it doesn't do that, that recirculating air can make some unusual, sometimes socially awkward noises as it's trying to get out.

And then that trapped air can lead to really uncomfortable bloating actually and then sort of swelling in the belly.

Oh, wow.

So is there what's the is there anything you can do about it?

Yeah, there is.

And it's become a major focus of what I do and something I'm really happy to treat because the treatment described in 2019 was Botox into into that muscle.

And so apparently, in this 2019 study by a Dr.

Bastian in the Chicago area, actually, you know, injecting Botox into that muscle, the cricopharyngeous muscle, and 80 to 90% of people afterwards could burp.

And

80 to 90% of people, after the Botox goes away, they've actually, they're able to learn or relearn.

how to burp in the first place.

And so they get this durable resolution for reasons we don't yet fully understand.

I'm curious about, I mean, if you've gone your whole life and you've never experienced a burp,

doing it for the first time,

how do people describe that experience?

And do they have to sort of learn how to do it?

Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, we've had some where Botox's onset of action is three days.

And so I've seen some where we timed in, it's like going to be on their birthday.

So it'll be like their burp day.

Wow.

I have, most patients tend to be, you know, female in their 20s and 30s.

And so it's not uncommon.

They'll tell me, like, I'm burping like a frat guy.

Like, it can be a lot in the beginning, but it all settles out over time as the Botox wears off.

Did you just say though their burp day?

Yeah, that's that's

the first time they burp.

I do these treatments and

a lot of folks ask me like, should I go back to work right away?

Am I going to be you know, burping in front of people involuntarily?

And and the truth is, you know, for folks who've never burped before and they have the Botox on board, they'll go to yawn.

And guess what?

A burp's going to come out.

Or, you know, they might, you know, like they didn't know that was going to happen, right?

And

when we yawn, what's happening is we don't, you know, we don't think about it in medical or anatomical terms, but our voice box is going down.

It's dropping low.

The idea is that we're, you know, unlocking this block with the Botox, but now as the floodgates are open, the other muscles have to tick in and figure out where to put the gas and the brakes on.

Have you heard from anybody who's gone through this and has gotten, I mean, not necessarily in trouble, but has found themselves in a situation where they have burped and then it has caused them awkwardness or

they regret it?

No, no.

But I'll admit that I was

reading a column in one of the local papers about work etiquette and there was mention,

someone was writing in about my cubicle mate was burping all day long and I don't know if I should talk to them about it and I was thinking I hope that is my patient like I think that's been dying

well that does it for this week's show what'd you learn Ian well I learned there are any number of foods you can cook in the dishwasher yeah we did lasagna but we also we found a recipe for ribs Yeah, we were very close to trying the ribs instead of the lasagna.

Based on this experience with the lasagna, what would you make?

Like if you were in charge of making dinner for your family, like tonight, what would you make?

I think a soup would be interesting.

Put all the ingredients in the top rack.

Put a bowl on the bottom rack.

Let all the hot water do all the things that boiling water does in soup.

Yeah.

And then it would all just settle in the bowl and just pop it right out.

If that were a thing that you could do, it would make sense for Tide then to make Tide seasoning pods where you just instead of soap, it's just herbs and spices.

So that when it's washing, it's just swirling those things around your raw ingredients.

It's very smart.

I mean, is it cooking, right?

If it's all pre-packaged, but

I think these Tide seasoning pods, this could be our path to financial independence.

It's a new meal prep kit from Tide.

How to Do Everything is produced by Hina Srivastova with technical direction from Lorna White.

If you have any questions or anything you want us to do for you, send us an email at howto at npr.org.

I'm Ian and I'm Mike.

Thanks.

Thanks.

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