How Abby Survived Her Biggest Loss

How would you like to feel calmer, think clearer, and sleep better, all in just two minutes?

Meet True Vega Plus, a handheld device that uses gentle vagus nerve stimulation to help calm your body's stress response.

In just two minutes a session, TrueVega helps shift you out of fight or flight and into a more relaxed, balanced state.

By naturally supporting your body's nervous system, you can quiet mental chatter, ease anxious feelings, and promote deeper, more restful sleep.

So you wake up feeling refreshed and clear-headed.

There are no pills, no side effects, just safe, clinically backed technology developed from decades of neuromodulation research.

Ready to try it out?

Visit truevega.com and use code WCDHT25 at checkout to receive $25 off your purchase.

Take action today and upgrade to feeling better every day with TrueVega.

Visit truevega.com and use my code WCDHT25 to receive $25 off your purchase.

Feel calmer and sleep better with TrueVega.

Hey, everyone.

I've got to tell you about Viore.

If you haven't heard of them, you're missing out.

And we love this stuff.

I've been living in this stuff for years.

I recently got the performance jogger from their dream knit collection.

And let me just say, it's hands down the softest, comfiest jogger I've ever worn.

I use them for everything.

Viori is an investment in your happiness.

I promise you.

For our listeners, they are offering 20% off your first purchase.

Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at viori.com slash hardthings.

That's vuo r i.com slash hardthings.

Exclusions apply.

Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on any U.S.

orders over $75 and free returns.

Go to viori.com slash hardthings and discover the versatility of Viori clothing.

Exclusions apply.

Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things.

Today,

Abby

is

brave and generous enough to share with us what happened to her and her family at the end of last year,

which was

maybe the hardest thing that's ever happened to her.

I don't know.

We'll see.

We'll see how she frames it.

But you, Pod Squad, are invited into a very beautiful space today.

We're going to talk about loss and love and grief.

To be fair, that's kind of always what we're talking about, but we're diving deep today.

Abby's going to tell us the story.

Let me just set the scene.

Great.

December 27th, 2023,

you and me and the kids landed for our family vacation a couple days after Christmas.

We landed in a faraway place.

We woke up the next morning.

We went to breakfast.

Would you like to take it from there?

Sure.

Often when we travel with the kiddos, they like to sleep in.

So Glennon and I woke up and we went down to breakfast ourselves to drink some coffee and, you know, explore a little.

We sat at the little restaurant and we had a cup of coffee and Glennon said to me,

I don't think we're supposed to be here.

And I was like.

The fuck is she talking about?

Because I you're like information that would have been helpful before we bought five very expensive flights.

Yes.

And also the kind of planning that goes into

and the time it takes to plan for a family vacation,

it's endless.

And it's like always ever changing because everybody has opinions, et cetera.

And so when she said this, my feelings got hurt a little bit because I was like, oh my gosh, like I've put so much, I thought we were going to have to get on a plane and get out of there, right?

Like this is what happens at times in our life that

Glennon

has moments where she wants to go home or it doesn't feel right, whatever.

It's not just want to go home.

It's an intense feeling of this doesn't feel right.

I feel wrong right now.

I feel panicky.

It's not just like, I don't like it.

No, right, right, right, right.

Right.

But you could understand how others who are sitting across from you after.

thousands of hours and dollars and planning it would interpret that as yeah, she doesn't want to be here.

She wants to go home.

Yeah.

Because they're not feeling the intensity of that.

Yeah.

But I understand that for you, it's like a, it wasn't, I don't want to be here.

No, it wasn't, I don't want to be here.

It was, holy shit.

I feel like we're not supposed to be here.

Yeah.

Right.

And P.S., it took us like 20 hours to travel to this place.

Whatever.

So I just said, I think I said, well, we're here and we're going to make the very best of this trip.

Like I wasn't entertaining any ideas of any other options.

So about an hour later, the kids show up.

And so we all go through the buffet and we're eating.

And towards the end of our little breakfast session, my phone rings.

And my sister Beth, who

knew that I was on vacation, would only call if there was an emergency.

And so immediately, like my heart dropped.

And I showed Glennon the phone and she looked at me with this look and she said, you have to take it.

So I stood up and I walked away because I knew something was wrong.

I didn't know what exactly.

Did you have a thought about what you thought it might be?

Yeah, I thought it was either my mom or dad.

I thought my mom or dad-I mean, to be fair, every single time my mom calls my phone now, I think something has happened.

Yeah, yeah.

And this is before this specific moment.

So I walk a few steps and I said,

What's wrong?

That was my first thing I said to her.

And she said, Abby, it's bad.

And I was like,

What happened?

And she said, Peter Jr., my oldest brother, died.

And

it was like,

wait,

what?

You know, like, I was expecting it to be my mom or my dad.

And immediately, like, my body kind of went numb.

And I went into, which is such a weird thing in retrospect.

What happened?

Like,

I needed to understand what happened so desperately as if that mechanism of understanding would make me feel better in some way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But now in retrospect, I think that that's just kind of silly that we're, we need to understand and know so much, but like the truth is the truth and he's gone.

Yeah.

And also I want to say here, there's a lot of people involved, like his kids and his family that I don't want to compromise them.

So I want people to understand that this is my experience through this process.

I do not speak for anybody else.

And I will try to make sure that their privacy is protected here too.

Yeah.

So I just want to say that.

And

to me,

Peter was like,

it's hard to even get used to using the past tense in a way.

But he was like,

I think that he was like the most generous of our family.

Like he gave so much of himself.

You know, he was like the one in our family.

And unfortunately, I think this was a role that he like

was really proud of and probably couldn't stand at the same time.

He was the one in our family that would go to my parents' house and like weed still

when he's 50.

You know, he was 52 when he died.

He would go clean the pool.

He painted the pool during the pandemic and he just like always showed up

for people, for people in his family i remember after i got a dui i like seven days after i got the dui i had to go on like this 10 day

speaking tour

around the united states to college campuses

and i was mortified and i thought how the heck am i going to pull this off like what the hell do i have to teach to these kids lo and behold It was actually really important for me to do that.

But the first stop that I went to, my brother, Peter, and my sister Laura showed up.

And at the time, when I felt so

embarrassed, and like I scarred the Wombach name, it meant a lot to me that he was there.

So, anyways,

he was just that guy.

Like, and I, when I got the call from Beth,

I could hear,

and I don't know if this was this specific call, but I remember when I spoke I could hear my mom screaming in the background

and it was like

it was like this kind of um

it was a primal

motherly expression

of

pain

and it's a weird like

Shock for sure is what I was going through because I couldn't catch up with my thoughts, couldn't catch up with my breath.

You know, so many things were swirling through my head.

First of all, like the kids, are they going to be okay?

And Glennon was amazing because she knew that something happened and she didn't understand quite what it was yet.

So she walked over

while, you know, keeping the kids away so that we can gather the information so that we know what to tell them.

And I was able to kind of tell her.

And so she was able to digest that information with them until I got off the phone.

And then we just went to this other table.

And

I think I just wept.

I just like, I just cried so hard.

And

it was so sweet because

our youngest daughter, Amma, she's just like

the most empathetic, I think, of all of us.

And

I think she was crying as hard as I was.

Like on behalf of me.

Like it felt so sweet and comforting because,

you know, going through something like that, it's so personal and it's so individual and you feel very

contained inside of your own sadness and it's like all yours, nobody else's.

And Emma had this ridiculous presence to know

I was feeling that way.

And so her show of emotion was like such, I just kept looking at her like

so grateful, A, that she could express herself that way, you know, like this is, you know, 10-year-old Emma was like, I don't know where my feelings are.

And now like she's, you know, this 16-year-old kid who's got, you know, a real good grasp on where her emotions are now, which is so beautiful.

And just sitting there talking about

Peter with my kids and with Glennon.

And

then, you know,

we're 7,000 miles away from Rochester, New York, which is where my brother lived and my family lives.

And so

I'm going into like kind of, I'm feeling very panicked.

Like, I need to be there.

I need to

be with

all of the people in my life that knew him and that, and I want to to be close to everyone.

And so that was really hard.

And also, it was really hard to try to figure out how to get there.

You know, we were on an island, and

flights are not that easy to get out of there.

So it was kind of a complication.

And thank God for you, sister, and Dina, who was working with us and helped us get back to Los Angeles so that I could get to Rochester.

The next like 24 hours until we could get on that flight were unfortunately riddled with a lot of logistical nightmares, you know, hotel stuff and flight stuff.

And, sister, we've talked about this before in terms of your diagnosis and how you kind of know, like,

oh, I'm going to deal with this at some point.

I'm not ready to deal with this all right.

The second, there's much to do, right?

We've got to help plan his services, and I've got to make arrangements to get there.

And,

you know, like, there's so many things that have to kind of

happen

in order for

the funeral services to go off.

I mean, the amount that I had to learn about, you know, funerals and death and all of that and what happens in the time of grief is so

hard and it's so confusing.

And nobody really wants to do that work beforehand, understandably.

And so you're dealing with learning this stuff and you're also trying to figure out what he would have wanted.

I mean, he died so early that he didn't have, you know, a structured will or anything in place to know what his wishes were.

And so that's complicated.

It's complicated because he's got three kids and he's got this big family that he came from and everybody has opinions and trying to kind of manage all of that is, I think, what I inserted myself into this situation as a bit of like a, you know, somebody who could talk to everybody and kind of say, here's what I'm hearing everybody say.

And, you know, it was just the most,

it's like this

earth shattering.

The way that you think about yourself now has to be altered in some ways.

Like, I am the youngest of seven.

Yes, that's true.

And I still to this day catches me trying to figure out how to

talk about, like,

do I say that I have six living and I'm one of seven, but only six are living?

I feel like it's confusing to kind of reorient your brain structure around your, even just like the number of people that are in your family.

It's confusing.

And that like disorients so much.

And so that first day, you know, I sent Glennon with the kids to go do something outside.

And I just needed to be alone calling my brothers and sisters, talking to my mom and my dad.

And, you know, like he was the oldest boy.

So the way that our family works is there's two girls and then my parents had four boys and then me.

So Peter was the oldest boy.

And of course, you know, in the 80s and 90s, like the oldest boy, Catholic, Irish family, he holds an important place in the family dynamic.

He's kind of like, I would say he was like a second father.

He worked at my dad's store.

And often throughout college, like if I needed money, I would call the store and he'd pick up and he'd say,

Wombach Farms, how are we doing?

You know, and I'd be like, Pete,

I need some money.

Can you put some money in my

doing?

We're doing poor.

Yeah.

We're really poor.

Exactly.

And he'd say, How much do you need?

And so he really did take care of a lot of us, not just me.

Like, he showed up for us in lots of ways.

And so, it was just like,

I don't know, it didn't make sense to me.

I don't understand.

Your parents are supposed to die first.

How can this fucking be possible?

And I know that it's possible, but how can this be possibly happening to me?

Whether you are working remotely or in office, many of us require collaborating with team members on projects, tasks, and outcomes.

Monday.com is one of our sponsors and a platform that our team at Treat Media has actually used to coordinate our workflow.

It is a platform that helps you from planning to execution, thinks ahead to deadlines, assign owners and actions, and allows you to see progress as a team.

It actually helps us get some work done.

There is a lot of AI out there, but not a lot actually moves the needle.

Monday.com's Sidekick is different.

It can actually build workflows, spot risks, update the team.

You just say what you need, and you can consider it done.

Sidekick in Monday.com saves so much time.

Using our Sidekick integration helped to update deadlines, brief teammates, reassign tasks, and it even helps us spot risks before they actually become problems.

Stop managing the busy work.

Let Monday Sidekick handle it so you can focus on the real work.

Try Monday Sidekick, AI you'll love to use on Monday.com.

It's the beginning of a new school year and also the classroom sniffles and sneezes that go along with it.

From home to school and back, stock up with Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues.

Start the school year off the right way by preparing for the messes that come with it.

You don't want to be caught without a tissue on hand to help.

Kleenex ultra soft tissues are soft and absorbent to stand up against runny noses, to keep you and your family clean and comforted as the school year starts.

This back to school season, make sure to get the classroom essential that teachers and students can rely on.

For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.

So

the next day we get on a flight and we fly back to Los Angeles.

I have to get different clothing.

to go to Rochester.

A couple days later,

we get on a flight and we go to Rochester.

And sister Yu and Glennon's mom flew up to be there with us.

And that was really, really, really sweet.

And I remember never having been so nervous.

And I was so afraid to go to my mom's and dad's house that first time.

And I was so, like everything in my body knew that I needed to be there.

But I was afraid because then it would be real.

At this point, everything was just kind of in my head.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever been in Rochester at my parents' house without seeing my brother there.

And so this reality of what has really transpired was going to truly hit.

And I walked in and it was just like lots of tears.

And

interestingly enough, During this time, I don't know why this is, and I don't know if this is like universal, but everybody was telling the story of how they found out.

And I find that to be like so interesting.

And it was interesting to me, too.

I was interested to know everybody's story because now this is a before and after moment.

Yeah.

And I do think when stuff like this happens, it's like really important to like mark

and put like a flag in the ground and say, okay, yeah, things will be different now.

It's like, even though it's really sad, it's also really beautiful.

We all unfortunately move on without him and we will.

And it's like this moment where we get to, it's a touch tree that we get to always, I will never forget

some of the conversations and the beautiful things that were said about my brother.

Some of the most beautiful things that people did or said to me.

The stories.

One of my friends, Kelly, from high school, she had lost her mom a couple of years ago, and she texted me this beautiful text.

And she said, oftentimes after

my mom died, people didn't know what to text me.

And they would text me things that, I don't know, didn't make sense, or it was just like the cliche stuff that you.

anticipate hearing.

And she said, the best and most effective things that I found to be helpful to me and to steer me through the grief of it were when people would tell me beautiful stories about my mom.

And so then she went on to tell this beautiful story about my brother.

And it was like, okay, right, that's right.

And so there were like all of these moments, like horrifically sad,

seeing my dad

choked up and seeing my mom devastated.

And like, knowing

as a parent, knowing that that devastation is so real for them.

And that even though he was 52,

he's still their kid.

And I know that our kids will grow and hopefully we die before them.

But

of course, you put yourself in.

I put myself in my parents' shoes and I just

worried about their health, you know, like, how are they going to deal with this?

And honestly, like Peter did so much for them that a real worry of all of us was like, who's going to do all the shit that Peter did now?

Who's going to do it?

And so we go through the memorial service and the celebration of life after.

And

it was really beautiful.

Peter was always the one in our family that like stood up at weddings and did the speeches.

and

i remember when i was talking to his wife carol about this she's just like well obviously like i think that you need to do this the eulogy yeah

at his funeral and

of course i said yes but i was so nervous because

I didn't think that there was going to be anything that I could say or think of saying that would do him real justice because

I don't know.

It's like when you have such a big family like I do, everybody has their roles and everybody thinks about each person in that role forever.

And I don't know, Peter was just actually like so nice.

He was like the nicest one of us.

I mean, Andy's also really nice.

So I think that the two of them are like the nicest one of us.

And it's just so unfair.

So I just was so nervous.

I was so worried about

what I would say in the eulogy.

And, you know, I talked to his kids and I talked to my mom about their favorite stories and things they hoped that they could hear in the eulogy.

And thank God, Glennon helped me write it.

And I remember that morning just being real shaky.

I was real shaky.

I wanted it to be really good.

And

I don't remember much of the service because I was so freaked out about having to do this eulogy.

And in the Catholic Church, where his funeral was, they have very strict rules on the timing of the eulogy.

So I was stressing about the timing.

And I have been, I have heard that the priests will literally like shut the microphone off if you go over time.

Not on Abbey Wombach in Rochester.

Yeah.

Exactly.

You got a waiver.

But yeah, it's like on the Emmys or whatever, the Oscars, where they start playing the music and they're like, that'll be that.

That's right.

I was afraid that I was going to get, you know, the music to go.

But the whole town was there.

It was incredible.

It was a beautiful, big Catholic church.

That's where we went to grade school.

And when we walked in with the family last,

I could not believe it.

It was packed to the brim,

standing room only.

Just this man was so beloved in the community was just like a fixture yeah

yeah

and like

you know i like to think that our kids look up to us

and uh i know that they do and i also know that my brother's three boys

you know, 22, 20,

16 years old, you know, that their life is forever changed.

And they will likely have beautiful lives, all of them, but this will forever change their life.

And all of the things

that I know that Peter and Carol worked so hard for these boys, you know, they're huge sports kids, athletes, playing sports in college.

And the time that Peter and Carol spent driving these boys around the northeast for all of their sporting sporting events.

I just felt like Peter didn't do it because he wanted to like witness them play college sports.

That's not why he did it.

He did it because his kids loved it and he wanted to give his kids great experiences.

And if they played in college, wonderful.

If not, great.

But

his middle kid plays lacrosse and it was a big deal.

He was a really great lacrosse player.

And Pete would miss him playing lacrosse in college for a D1 D1 program.

And I just know he would have loved it.

You know, I know that he would have

really loved it.

Just, he's going to miss.

That's what I, of course, I'm sad for the people who have to miss him and survive beyond him.

But like, I keep thinking about

him

and how sad I am for him

because

he

loved having a good time.

He really did.

Like, he always wanted to have fun.

And I learned that.

Like, I learned it from him.

I mean, the night before he died,

it was Christmas dinner.

He was.

So the way that my mom does like Christmas night dinner is like everybody comes over and there's 45 people there.

And so the kids usually eat in a different room and the adults eat in like the main dining room area with the dining room table.

And usually the adults sit around and they just chit-chat for a couple hours.

I mean, it's just like the way that it happens.

And so Pete, you know, in Pete fashion, went and picked each kid one-on-one and had each kid come and sit at the head of the table, called it the hot seat, and just asked each kid in our family the most embarrassing questions in front of all the other adults

you know like kids in college that are he's like so are you dating anybody like who are you dating what are their names are you drinking what are you like all of these like what are you drinking what are their names yeah you have any extra yeah

i got off track we can go back to the eulogy part but peter was just like I just wanted to do him right by the eulogy.

And I think that I did.

It was the most beautiful eulogy I've ever heard.

Absolutely perfect.

And I don't know, like, it's kind of like a blur.

And then you go to like the celebration of life after.

And

it's kind of traumatic, to be honest, for people who are in the grief of it all.

There's a beauty.

I've talked to Glennon a lot about this that, like, I think everybody knows that I have real issues with religion and specifically the Catholic Church, how I was raised.

And I remember sitting in that church

thinking,

this is good.

This is a good thing that they do

because it's this ritual that gives you this container for all of the people and all of our energy and all of our sadness to be in the same place

to mourn this person that we loved.

Everybody's allowed to be sad and

even angry.

I felt so much anger around this experience that was really interesting for me.

I didn't know that anger would be part of my process, but it was.

Was it later?

Was it all throughout?

And like, when did you notice it and how?

It would pop up every once in a while.

Because what happens is, and what was happening for me at least, is in my search and need to understand,

I started to create judgments around

things that I believed were what happened or why things happened the way they happened.

And then that puts me in a position of,

I don't know if other people do this, but in a big family, there's always this comparison thing happening.

Like, oh, I'm healthy.

There's just this way that differentiation.

Yeah, like my sister, Beth, she's 11 years older than me and for whatever reason

as I age a thought bubble happens in my body that's like well I'm always going to be 11 years younger than my sister Beth and that makes me feel good

sorry Beth I know you're listening to this but it does make me feel good

as I'm sure when she was 11 she was probably looking at me going oh my god I'm so glad I'm 11.

You know what I mean?

So I don't even know I'm going down on I know what you're saying.

It's it's profound.

The anger is safer than the grief.

So you the anger comes from the judgments you're making.

It's so powerless.

Yes.

Death.

So you create power in your head by saying, this wouldn't have happened if he would have done this or she would have done this.

And then that judgment about what happens turns into anger, which is easier to deal with than the powerlessness and grief.

That's right.

It's exactly what you said in the episode about my diagnosis, where you're like, I've come to understand that Glennon,

the judgment is fear.

Yeah.

It's coming out that way.

But like, so that's what you were doing in the that's exactly right.

So we get through the funeral service and we do the celebration of life and it's just exhausting.

It's just actually

so exhausting.

And my mom was having a dinner at her house that night that, you know, anybody could come to.

I think one of the things that my mom is good at is

hosting things so as to not deal with what's going on.

And I actually, I wasn't judging her about that.

I understood.

I was like, good job.

You're doing good things.

As far as defense mechanisms go, that's a really kind one.

Yeah, totally.

Very useful to the collective.

Totally.

And so we got to my parents' house.

And honestly, I felt terrible.

It's like when the thing finally finishes, and now I had this like feeling of doom.

Like, oh, now I've got to deal with this shit.

Yes.

I think that I know more than anyone on this entire planet that having the right therapist to talk to can make a life-changing difference.

That's why I think Alma is so cool.

Alma connects you with real therapists who understand your unique experience.

You can use their directory to search for someone who specializes in the areas that matter most to you, whether that's anxiety, relationships, or anything else.

And what stands out to me about Alma is that 97% of people seeing a therapist through Alma say their therapist made them feel seen and heard.

You know, I love that.

That level of connection isn't something you can get from scrolling through online advice or following social media.

It's about finding someone who truly understands your journey and is dedicated to helping you make progress.

Better with people, better with Alma.

Visit helloalma.com slash hardthings to get started and schedule a free consultation today.

That's hello A L M A dot com slash hardthings.

What does the future hold for business?

Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers.

Bull market, bear market.

Rates will rise or fall.

Inflation, up or down.

Can someone please invent a crystal ball?

Until then, over 40,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite, the number one AI cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one fluid platform.

With one unified business management suite, there's one source of truth, giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions.

With real-time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data.

When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's next.

Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities.

I highly recommend it.

Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash hardthings.

The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash hardthings.

netsuite.com slash hard things.

So,

two of my national team friends showed up to my brother's funeral, which blew me away to begin with.

It was so, so awesome that they showed up like that.

And they came to my mom and dad's house for this post-celebration dinner.

And I looked at all of you, you two, Amanda and Glenn, and I was like, you guys, I have to go back to the hotel and go to sleep.

And you were like, let's go.

And so I had to then tell my mom that I needed to leave.

And that was like one of the hardest things I've ever had to do because that's something that we don't do in our family.

We just like suck it up and just do what everybody's doing, especially in those big moments.

But I couldn't do that and take care of myself at the same time.

I had exhausted.

you know, we flew all across the world to get there, planning and all of the things that went into that specific day.

And then the emotion of dealing with it, you know, like of dealing with what was actually happening.

And so I told her, and I could tell she was a little disappointed that I was leaving, but I just could not be, I couldn't be around

people.

That was like an important thing.

I don't know why it was so important to me, but it was like I needed to do this thing for myself that I knew that I needed to do.

And

so I did it, which felt good.

And so like

the next couple of days are kind of a blur because I get home, we fly back to LA.

And I think my body like shuts down.

Do you remember this?

Oh, yeah, I do.

I just, I'm not the kind of person.

I do like a siesta, a nap.

Like we've discussed this before.

Somewhere in between the hours of two and five.

Sometimes it's three to five.

Sometimes it's two to four, you know.

Yeah.

But I like got back and I got into bed after the morning, after the coffee morning thing.

I got back into bed and I stayed in bed all day.

And I did this for like three days.

And I just watched TV,

laid on my bed, slept.

I just was so sad.

I was so,

so

sad.

And I don't have a lot of ability to handle sadness.

So when it stays for a few days, three days, I am like, fuck this sadness.

I need to start doing something.

So getting back into like, you know, the life that we live, work, working out, all of that stuff.

But it was such a slog.

Like, I hated it.

I hated having to do everything.

I hated having to drive our kids places.

I hated, I hated having to like create this new reality without Peter.

And so that's when I talked to Glennon and I was like, look, I really need to get into some intensive therapy here because I don't want to hate my life and I don't want to lose this opportunity to

really grapple with some of this grief because

This is the first real big grief that I had dealt with since getting sober.

And what I didn't know would happen

is that grief is an interesting, it's like a train where each car is like a different grief of your life.

And to me, now being sober, I didn't realize

that I was also now going to have to kind of wade through all of the other griefs of my life that I was avoiding and that I never dealt with.

Oh, shit.

So, like, if you really face the one,

it opens opens the door to all the rooms.

There's opportunity for me there.

So, like, if there, if you can imagine a train, I like got on that first train car and I walked all the way back to the train.

And then I was like, oh, shit, here's another door.

Because so much of what was happening to me in the grief felt so familiar,

but I couldn't like place it.

So I got into intensive therapy

and

I learned a lot of really valuable things in there.

And this is ironic, I think, because

what was it?

Like a year ago now that we had Suzanne Stabilon?

Yeah, she told you it was coming, man.

Suzanne Stabue,

I love you.

And also, God damn it, this shadow side work that you wanted me to...

to attend to that I did attend to.

Y'all should have just fired that dog walker like she told you.

You could have avoided all this.

Well, she said that in listening to and knowing you and then knowing your Enneagram number also that

you embrace the lightness of life and fun and that you tend to push away this sadness.

The shadow side.

Right.

So she said your work would be embracing the shadow side.

Yeah.

And so I was like, all right, I'll do that.

I get a therapist, talking with my therapist.

And then like, lo and behold, the last 12 months of my life have been very shadow-centric.

So Suzanne,

I'm there.

A ray of sunshine to be seen.

I'm working on it.

I'm working on it.

And I'm working on it.

Tell her what

your therapist told you about the portal.

Yes.

Yeah.

One of the things that was really

very interesting to me that my therapist said that I think about even now, because I still feel like I'm in it on some level, is that when some big event like this happens, there's like this portal that opens up for you that gives you greater access to A,

getting rid of shit in your life that you don't want to get rid of.

And B, and this is the thing that might sound a little bit woo-woo, but I believe in it, that like

it cracks you open to your own mortality that allows you to make certain life decisions and organize your life in certain ways

so that you can live a more fulfilling life and a more intentional life and that that portal is open

for a time

because us average person walking around the world we cannot stand for that portal to be open for very long.

The window of time that will close.

You make your dramatic changes then.

Yeah.

Because later you'll convince when the portal closes, you'll convince yourself that everything's fine again.

That's right.

That's exactly right.

And that to me felt like, oh, that's interesting.

This is an interesting time.

And this is a life-changing time.

And what in this time am I meant to learn?

That's all I keep asking myself.

What are all of these things

showing up?

What is this grief meant to teach me?

And that's what I've been in pursuit of ever since December 27th when I found out is trying to figure out,

like Liz Gilbert would say, what this earth school is teaching us and what I'm supposed to be learning from this.

Not that there is a lesson in it, but I do think that

I do think that experiences in our life happen, especially tragic ones.

Tragedy strikes all of us in certain ways.

And whether it's a heartbreak or, you know, a diagnosis or losing somebody, whatever it might be,

the way that I like to feel

like I have more, not control, but I have more,

that I have gained more of myself.

or I'm learning more of myself is if I do feel like there's something to gain in all of this messiness, because it is messy.

Nothing is black and white.

Like it's just, it's confusing and it's horrifying in some ways.

And I was going through a really terrible time because I was dealing with

grief from when I was a little kid, grief from when I was a young adult, grief from all of the drinking years, the heartbreaks that I was experiencing that I couldn't find words to manage through it, or I didn't have therapists to help me work through some of that stuff.

So, all of this stuff was really coming up for me.

And what a cool thing, what a cool way to think about this portal opening up as like a gift.

Like, I kind of envision it as like this literal light that is shining above my head, that I have a little bit more connection to the universe, because so many of us don't want

to be conscious

on a second by second basis in a day that we are going to die and there is a real true gift in that consciousness it's too hard for so i mean listen i i totally understand i've walked around most of my life going i'll deal with that when i die but i'm really trying to deal with that now as a living person so that when I die, I'm

more surrendered to what's what's happening.

Yeah, it's unsustainable to carry on a daily basis.

Like you can't carry that on a daily basis.

So it's like in this window.

That's it.

That's right.

But there's also

many faith traditions and spiritualities that insist upon

keeping that consciousness as close as humanly possible.

Like the skulls and all of that is just the belief that the more we remember, the more we force that portal open

the more we remember how close death is the closer we can come to really fully being alive it is only the consciousness of death that but it's like that poem about learning about grace not from the rumor of it but from the experience of it those faith traditions and those skulls and whatever those are totems and reminders

that only work as reminders of a a lived experience.

Abby can now hold a skull in her hand and look at it and remember when the portal was open and remember that real experience she felt and she knew.

But if you just have the reminder, the reminder of what?

Something someone else told you about life?

Yeah.

You have to have a reminder of something that you knew and felt and was real to you in order to have it be a reminder of something that like can live deeply in you.

I would also say though that there are some cultures that celebrate death in a totally different way than we do here in the States, you know, like the body's whisked away to never be seen again if it's going to be a cremation or the body is whisked away so that people don't have to see it.

And some other cultures, you know, dead bodies are paraded through the streets.

And when you see that, then your consciousness around the reality of death changes.

You're not as afraid of it because it's celebrated.

Like in our culture, there's like this hush-hush.

It's shameful.

Yeah.

Yes, it's shameful.

Don't speak of that.

To do the only inevitable thing that we know that it's shameful.

And I think you and I, babe, talked about that a lot in terms of the conversation around shouldn't this just be a celebration of life?

And

the idea of that,

you know, there was talk of like, let's just go to a bar.

Let's just go to a convention center.

Let's just, it's a celebration of life.

And I think you and I were both surprised with our resistance to that.

Yeah.

Like, no, no, no, that is like

rushing towards the resurrection without going through the crucifixion.

People actually need

to not pretend that it doesn't hurt.

You and I have so many issues with religion, but when we were sitting in that church with those freaking bagpipe type shit and like

the whatever it was, and the incense and the crucified Christ and the stained glass and the balling.

And I was just like, yes,

this kind of grief and pain cannot be in a convention center.

Like I need this sensory,

full-on

grieving, I guess what you said, container.

to move on.

Like it's part of the necessary process to first the pain, then the rise.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

It surprised me probably more than anything that, like, sitting in that church, I was like, this is exactly where we should be.

This is exactly how this should go.

Yeah, there's a role for it.

Yeah.

Can we come right back?

Yeah.

And then I would love to ask you questions about, I have never seen someone walk through

anything with the commitment to staying open and learning and growing.

And

I mean, Suzanne Stabil would be so proud.

So

let's come back

and talk about what you have learned that you want to share with people.

Great.

That was so beautiful.

You are so beautiful.

You did such a good job.

I know, but I talked a lot.

All we want is for you to talk more.

So we will be back for Abby to talk more.

You can do hard things, Pot Squad.

We love you and we know that every single one of you has been touched by something like this.

And you are not alone in it today.

We're with you.

See you next time.

If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.

First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?

Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.

To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow.

This is the most important thing for the pod.

While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful.

We appreciate you very much.

We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wombach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.

Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Lograsso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.

I give you Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle.

I chased desire,

I made sure I I got what's mine

And I continue

to believe

That I'm the one for me

And because I'm mine,

I walk the line

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on map A final destination

lack.

We've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives bring,

we can do a hard pain.

I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new start.

I'm not the problem,

sometimes things fall apart

And I continue to believe

The best

people are free

And it took some time

But I'm finally fine

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks don't map

a final destination

we lack.

We stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we

can do a heart again.

Adventurers and heartbreaks on that.

We might get lost, but we're okay.

We've stopped asking directions

in some places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives bring,

we can do hard

things.

Yeah, we can do hard things.

Yeah, we

can do

hard

things.