Jack and Michael Whitehall

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And whenever I do shows on stage and I'd look out and I'd see my dad, he would always have a resting bitch face.

Welcome back to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with me and Woody Harrelson sometimes.

Last year, Woody was doing a play in London and I was going to be in town.

So we thought, why not do a podcast podcast while we're here and talk to someone we'd otherwise might not be able to.

So for this episode, we're joined by British comedian Jack Whitehall and his father, author, and producer, Michael Whitehall.

I know a bunch of you will know Jack from shows like Fresh Meat and Bad Education.

If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend Travels with My Father on Netflix, in which both Jack and Michael take trips to foreign lands in an attempt to strengthen their bond.

Meet Jack and Michael Whitehall.

I'm trying to think, is there another father-son

comedian team?

Not that you're both whatever, but is there anyone else who acts with their father with such regularity or vice versa?

I don't think so.

I mean, there have been a couple of comedians over here in the UK that have done shows mainly with their mothers actually.

But yeah, me and dad, I think, were one of the first to do anything together.

And we started actually doing a stage show first because I'd talked about him in my stand-up so much, and he'd been the butt of a lot of jokes.

And, you know, I felt like I'd maybe exhausted that avenue.

And then a friend of mine who was producing the show said, Well, why don't you just get him up on stage with you?

So then we were doing the Edinburgh Festival.

And for three nights, we did this little show where I would interview guests that were performing at the festival.

And Michael was meant to sit on stage in a chair and sort of be like a prop, like Madge in Madge in

Barry Humphreys, you know, the Barry Humphreys chair.

I don't, yeah, Madge just sits in a chair just in front of the

little old lady, she's a little lady, and that's the truth.

And he used to talk to her and then she'd just sit there nodding and she had no cute.

So do you do you agree with that, Madge?

Oh, yes, dear, of course you do, you know.

So that was the part.

And that was the role.

And then obviously, when it happened, that is not what came to pass.

And Michael was getting in here and there and everywhere and undermining me and telling me that I was a terrible interviewer and asking very indiscreet questions to all of the guests and basically completely stealing the show.

And we did it for like three nights in this small venue.

And it just so happened that, like, someone from the BBC had been in, and they were like, oh, we'd love to do this on television.

So then we ended up doing a chat show for three seasons on the BBC where again, Michael was sitting there and essentially upstaging me.

When was that one cop?

That was called Back Chat, which we actually recorded at the Riverside Studios where you're doing your play at the moment.

Okay, okay.

And we interviewed people like Joan Collins and Bear Grylls and Gary Lineker.

And you sat up at that desk being a sort of interviewer.

Yeah.

And then I sat in an armchair.

Basically.

Kept trying to bot in and tell the story of my conception to every guest that we had on.

Could we get just a taste of that?

That story's been retired a long time ago.

And then, yeah, from that, we ended up doing our travel show because the people liked the sort of dynamic of us working together.

And you got bored, be honest, with that other show, because you got bored with interviewing people.

Because you were saying, this is my show.

I'm the talent.

I do not want to sit here interviewing Joan Collins.

Any truth in that, Joe?

I mean, I do find

the interview format quite hard because I do think I like the sound of my own voice too much.

And I'm always trying to

not tell jokes and not butt in and try to be a proper conversationalist.

But I don't think I necessarily back then had the skill set.

I just wanted to top everything that anyone said.

Although Joan Collins, if you remember, on that particular show,

she stood up, walked off.

She walked off.

She stopped because of

it.

No, no, no, not because she she was upset, but she was just bored.

Yeah, she said it.

It's quite boring, this show.

What's it called?

It said, Batcher.

Well, there's not much chance for Batcher because I can't get a word in Edgeways.

First break of filming, and she tried to walk off the set.

And I was like, where's she going?

And does she think it's over?

And I was like, Joan, I had to run after her and be like, no, no, we've still got like three more sections of the show.

She was like, well, I can't stay and sit here.

I have dinner reservations.

Yes, I have dinner reservations.

And we were like, well, good to go.

And off she went.

She went to the dinner reservations.

And she walked off.

And then the only way we could get her back was by literally luring her back onto the set with champagne.

So someone had to run out into the bar at the Riverside Studios, buy some like Moe.

And then we literally had to coax her back into the studio with the champagne.

And once she was, you know, imbibed, she was then willing to sit through the next three parts of the show.

This is why Woody and I are sitting where we are.

You guys can't scoot out

whenever you want.

She also told the most staggering story, which I don't think ended up in the show, where she told me, because I said it must have been exhausting to have been as famous as you are for so long.

And, like, you know, for so long.

Really, that was the moment when she got up and walked off.

She went, How dare you?

And no, she said, I, yes, I had an experience there recently where I was like, I wish I could remember what it was like to be anonymous.

And I thought to myself, I'm going to send my assistant out to purchase me one of those burkas that the ladies wear in the

in the Arab world.

And I will wear this and I will be able to walk around.

And I did.

For the afternoon, I walked around around Harrods in a burqa and no one stopped me.

No one came up and asked me for any selfies.

And it was just this wonderful experience of knowing what it's like to not be Joan Collins for a day.

I thought that is a very extreme measure to go to to have that experience.

And it's also meant that ever since she told me that story, anytime I see anyone in a burqa in Harrods, I look and I'm like.

That might be Joan Collins.

I loved the masks that we had to all wear for a while there.

And when anyone recognized me when I was wearing the mask, it was like, well, fuck a lot of good the mask does.

It had nothing to do with COVID.

It was like...

I'd like to see you in a Burke, though, Daddy.

I would too.

Yeah, because I say you're very recognizable

from the nose up.

Your hair is so distinctive.

The mask does you know favorite.

I'm not sure and the ball spot.

in the back because i will get people go i think that's him and then i'll walk by them and i'll realize that they're looking at the back of me now going yeah that's him that's him I know that bald spot anyway

I don't know how my bald spot spread to the front

I was so happy when you started to lose hair it just made me

things like that are happy just love it

They always refer to it as a receding hairline.

I've never heard it referred to as an advancing bald spot.

Yeah,

that's what mine was, an advancing ball.

But, you know, ball is beautiful, so that's what I'm going for.

Who did that first?

Athletes, right?

Didn't athletes first just say fucking shave their heads?

Yeah, like Michael Jordan.

Yeah, and it made it very cool.

Yeah.

Made it cool for the rest of us.

Anyway, so

what do you think of Jack's hair?

I mean, I think that is fun.

Yeah, that is too cool.

I'm actually getting out of here.

And his mother doesn't like it.

Your mother doesn't like you.

No, I like it.

It's too cool.

How come Hillary got a free pass here?

He's not sitting around the table.

I know.

That ain't right.

She'll jump.

She'll join it.

She walks out.

When he walks off, when he does a Joan Collins,

it's like tight team podcasting.

Although you're right, I'm a bit trapped for a walk off, and I couldn't get down to go on the oh, there isn't an under

somewhere down there.

Yeah, this is a true uh prison for you.

Um, but I wanted to ask you because uh I was like interested in this, that you attended

a school with Jesuit monks, like a Catholic school.

Some of that.

Yorkshire or something.

Yeah, Yorkshire's right.

Yeah.

Monks is right.

Benedictine.

Benedictine monks.

Yeah, I did.

My mother was very Catholic.

My father was very not Catholic.

I mean, sort of almost almost anti-Catholic,

but as always in families, my mother won the day.

And so I was sent away to a boarding school when I was

nine and a half

in Yorkshire called Ampleforth, run by Benedictine monks.

I mean, there were 400.

There was a community of 400 monks up there, of which 100

were involved with teaching at the school

and i went there when i was and i left when i was 17 and a half eighteen were you surrounded by people uh your age who were also being sent away to school at that age yeah yeah um and

for the first year or

maybe yeah the first year i i wasn't happy um

but after that i just settled in and made lots of friends.

I still have a lot of the people I met there then

who I still know and I'm friends with.

And it had a lot of comedy potential.

And I basically wasted my time

showing off,

doing jokes.

on monks very often.

In fact, I'll tell you a little story about

the French teacher at Ampleforth, who was called Father Basil, Father Basil Hume, was a great favourite of mine.

And

I used to play jokes on him, which he loved because he was a very jokey guy himself.

And one day I went into York and I bought something called a dirty Fido,

which was...

like a poo, a dog's poo, plastic, you know, from a joke shop.

And I brought that back to school.

I showed it to one of them.

He was like, oh, white, oh, that's so good.

Oh, so funny.

And what are you going to do with it?

And I said, well, I'm just thinking about it.

And then I had the idea of when Father Basil, because he was the nicest of the monks and the one that I thought would have a sense of humor.

When he came into the classroom, he went, this makes it sound like I'm about 100, because they had these big desks with steps up to the desk.

So you came into the room, you went up three or four steps, sat then in your looking at the classroom like that.

So I put the dirty Fido just on the side of one of the steps.

And I thought, clever.

And all the boys were going, oh, you know,

he saw someway.

So Father Basil comes in and says, bonjour, and we say bonjour because he was the French teacher

and

got up, sat into the desk at the top of the steps, started talking to the kids and talked to me and everything.

And I thought,

I mean, he's just ignore the whole thing.

I mean, that didn't work at all.

Surely maybe I put it too far to one side.

Anyway, he finished the class.

came down the steps and as he turned to go out of the room he bent down picked it up, walked to the back of the class where I was and said, Whitehall, I think this is yours and put it in front of me.

So, dissolve.

And

60 years later, I think it was 60, it might have been 50, certainly 50 years later,

he has become the Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster.

So he is the top, top dog in the Catholic Church in England.

And he's a cardinal and all that.

And the school decide that it would be nice to have an event in London, like a drinks party.

And he was going to come to the party and just

say hello to all the kids that were at Amberford.

So he arrives, and there he is.

Of course, he's got an assistant man with him, and he's all dripping in sort of robes and rings and all that sort of stuff.

Very different to what he was in the classroom.

And

somebody there said, Michael, would you like to meet Father Basil?

Because they still called him Father Basil.

Well, he wasn't actually Father Basil, he was the Cardinal.

And I said, Yes, I'd love to see him again.

So we formed a queue and I got to the front of the queue.

And there he was and he smiled at me and I thought he won't remember me and I

and he smiled and he said, Whitehall and I said, yes, Father Basil.

And he said, how are you?

And I said, I'm very well.

And he said, we had a little chat.

And then they'd warn me that you must kiss his ring because now that he's cardinal.

So when you finish talking to him, you go down one knee and kiss his ring.

So at the end, I said, well, thank you so much.

It's really nice to see you again, Father Basil.

And I go down on one day, I kiss his ring, I get up, he looks at me and says, I hope you haven't put down one of those dirty pose

down there.

And I said, No, Father Basil.

He said, I'll never forget that moment.

Holy moly, that's a mistake.

That was pretty impressive.

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So, no scars from your going away at eight.

No, I got away with it.

Well, one or two people got a bit scarred.

You can't swim as a result of that.

No, you can't swim because the monks used to teach swimming, but they didn't get into the pool with you because

they weren't allowed to take their robes off.

So they'd shout at the side of the pool

on the swimming lessons.

Well, I just walked along the bottom of the pool doing all this.

And that seemed to be good enough so i thought i'm not going to bother with all this thing saying my parents didn't swim so yeah swimming never came and it still hasn't

hence that uh when you what was the segment where you went in the coldest water ever and with uh some women and you stuffed socks in your uh

your breeches late windermere yeah you didn't you there was no thought of you getting in the water

no

that would have been the end of the show Yeah, definitely.

Let me ask you: is

scripted travels with my father?

It's, I mean, sometimes we attempt to have little moments that are scripted, but Michael's not great at retaining much script in his head if I do try to give him lines.

So we sort of muddle through it.

And, you know, we have an idea of what some of the scenes are going to be, but yeah, it's mostly improvised.

Totally works, by the way.

It's very funny.

Oh, thank you.

You can also see when it's like

you surprise each other and it goes off in some tangent.

Like

you in the water

was, I think that was totally off book.

Yeah, that was definitely off book.

And you can only plan it so much.

And yeah, some of the best moments are obviously when it goes off in a completely different tangent to what you're expecting.

And I love cracking Michael up as well because he's the hardest person to make laugh in the world and always has been, which obviously is a comedian growing up, was very challenging.

And whenever I'd do shows on stage and I'd look out and I'd see my dad, he would always have a resting bitch face.

It would be the only face that I can see.

In fact, a reviewer once mentioned it, didn't it?

Came to the

show and gave me quite a bit.

Behind me, this guy who I knew, I mean, having been an agent all my life, I've been to see millions of players and I know all the critics and

so this guy comes and it was the night that the critics weren't allowed in.

I mean, it was before

the preview, yeah.

So, this guy walks up the aisle and

waves at me.

And I say, Oh, hello, how are you?

And then he goes, and he's in the seat behind me.

And I thought it was a sweet old thing.

And then I, the following day, or the day after, I read the review of your new show.

And it said,

I was sitting behind Michael, I was sitting behind Jack Whitehall's father, and he didn't laugh once.

Did he go on to make a point out of that?

No,

just say it wasn't really very funny.

Yeah, it wasn't your kind of thing.

And Michael Whitehall didn't laugh once.

That's because I don't laugh.

I cannot laugh.

I don't do laugh.

I do smiling.

But if I went

genuine.

So phony?

Does your mind go,

oh, that's funny?

Oh, that's a good joke.

We don't like those, do we?

The person that laughs on the inside.

Yeah, they're no use to us.

No good to us as jokes.

I want an external laugher.

Yeah, a big, loud, hearty laugh, a cackler.

But him, it's that.

And I always put it down to the fact that some of my material was maybe a little bit purile and beneath him.

But now I've heard about this dirty Fido joke that he's been peddling.

I'm like laughing at dog poo.

That's all I needed to do all these years is just put a little fake dog on the corner of the stage and he would have got it.

So

when did you realize, were you like the class clown or

how did you realize, you know, maybe I could

do this?

I mean, yeah, I loved kind of showing off and performing at school and, you know, did little sketches with friends and was always kind of like trying to make people laugh.

But I wanted to become an actor and wanted to go into that world.

But because Michael had been an agent, he was very strict with me that I wasn't to become an actor because he'd looked after some very successful actors, but he'd also looked after a lot of actors that had been out of work and knew how tough the industry could be.

So he said, you need to go to university and you need to go and study.

And so my way into...

ending up doing comedy was going and starting to do stand-up comedy.

So his plan completely backfired.

Because I went into an even more like cutthroat industry and,

you know, with very little sort of security so i ended up doing it about in an about way by going and doing stand-up comedy when i was doing a university degree for about five minutes which i sort of dropped out of after six months because i'd love doing stand-up being up on stage yeah up in manchester yeah you you didn't like that the school or i loved being in manchester and i loved living away with all of my mates and being in a student house and like living that lifestyle the actual study

part oh yeah i was done with it because the minute i stepped on stage and the minute i did stand-up for the first time which was when I was 18, I loved it.

And it was like an instant hit.

And I was like, this is what I want to do.

And I feel so at home on stage.

And I love this.

So I knew then that I was going to do that, come what may, but then had to go and sort of go through the motions of applying to universities and, you know, pursuing my studies, even though I knew full well that I'd found my sort of calling.

Do you, do you still go out and test material by just showing up somewhere and unbeknownst to anyone else just to see how it's working.

And I love doing that.

I love that process of it.

I actually think that's sometimes the most exciting bit is when you're building the hour for the first time and you're going up and you're trying out like half-baked bits in a comedy club and no one knows that you're going to be turning up on stage.

And it's really always quite electric in the room, especially if you know, I do a comedy club in London.

And then that feeling of doing a new joke for the first time and like putting something out there into the world and it like even getting half a laugh is just so fantastic.

Can you get away with it now?

I mean, oh, there's Jack and so he's funny and we will laugh or can you tell whether you're getting an honest read?

Do you know what I think actually that's like

something that's very good about English people and English audiences is that you definitely get like five minutes at the beginning where they're just excited because someone, you know, famous is on the on stage.

But after that five minutes grace period, they're like, oh yeah, come on.

You think you're funny, do you?

And it's straight back to like having to like work for it.

And I do think you get like a pretty honest reaction from audiences, especially if you're outside of like, I mean, for me, when I first started like doing it outside of London was so good.

And that's why I started in Manchester, which is, you know,

definitely like a slightly tougher place to go and do stand-ups, especially if you sound like me.

And so I had to.

work that much harder, I think, to make sure that the material was strong enough to elicit a reaction from the crowd.

That's what it's like walking around being me.

People go, oh, Ted Danson.

And in about 30 seconds, I can see their eyes wandering and

looking for

a back door.

But I get 30 seconds of adoration.

But also, your public persona is one of someone that's, I think, quite friendly, which must be.

trying because you're probably not all of the same.

What you see is what you get.

Yeah, it's really.

It takes a moment to piss me off.

Yeah.

Well, ask Woody.

No.

Yeah, no, I've tried.

That's why Michael's so lucky because he's his

screen persona is, you know,

cantankerous and dismissive.

And so, when he is cantankerous and dismissive in real life, when someone comes up to him, they love it.

And it's so annoying because he can be so rude to people.

And they're like, oh, he's doing his bit.

It's Larry David.

Yes, it is.

Exactly.

It's Larry David.

And in success, it's even worse because they get away with it even more.

Yeah.

Because people love it and expect it.

Yeah.

And it's no fun.

This little girl came up to me.

She was on her way back from school.

So she came up to me and she said, would it be possible to have a selfie?

And I said,

no, yes, absolutely.

I just love your show and I love Jack.

And then as she was about to take the picture,

this is getting technical for me now.

because I'm doing that like I'm stopping traffic.

Is that the phone?

That's her phone.

Okay.

As she was about to take the picture, she suddenly said,

Oh, I know what would be so, so funny and my dad would love it.

And I said, Yes.

And she said,

As I take the picture, will you just tell me to fuck off?

And I said, I don't think, no, I don't think I'd really want to.

Oh, but my dad would love it.

I said, I'm not sure how much your dad would love it.

I think we'll just leave the fuck off.

Wow.

See, that's smart.

Wow.

Because that has become

the third person to have that catchphrase because, of course, Brian Cox.

Brian Cox in succession.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I went up to Brian at Fulham and said, can we?

So we had a really good picture of him telling me to fuck off and me telling him to come off.

Not that funny, but sort of quite funny.

But it's a great catchphrase to have.

Yeah.

And I'm always very charming to people when they come up and speak to me you're not but i have spent my entire life representing actors and actresses and enjoying it and never ever wanting to be any kind of performer and that has forced me into doing

so reluctantly because he once wanted to be a double act and i was the only person he could think of

backing into the spotlight yeah yes

over and over and over and over, backing into the spot, like crowbaring his way into the spotlight, crawling over his son to get into the spot.

Let's talk about cannabis, shall we?

Yes, please.

Yeah.

Please.

Did you get busted on the way back into Britain?

Really?

No,

no souvenirs were purchased.

Even though you went to Woody's dispensary.

We went to Woody's dispensary, which was incredible.

I mean, it's like an oasis

in the middle of the chaos of Los Angeles.

And yeah.

Well, you know, the idea was like, at least no matter what, you can't accomplish everything, but let it be the most beautiful.

You were the agent to some really incredible people like Dame Judy Dench and such.

So who was your favorite client?

Difficult.

Kenneth Moore.

Yeah, I suppose Kenny Moore was, but I mean, that was a long time ago he was

remember

yeah

you know reach for the sky all those sky plays legs in the war he was my first sort of big client and uh I had such a good time with him.

I had a very good time with him in Berlin with David Bowie.

But I think that's for a, if you're ever doing a special where you can talk, the guests can talk for half an hour.

I think I'd have to do that then.

But no, Kenneth Moore, great.

He used to go out for Judy.

Foozy lunches.

Bench, lovely.

I think Daniel Day-Lewis was probably

my favorite.

I just had a Colin Firth.

Oh, God, I love.

The reason I love Daniel Day-Lewis is because,

and he won't mind me saying this,

is that he was mad in the sweetest possible way.

I mean, I took him on from drama school, the Bristol Olvic.

Had you seen him in something?

Did they do it like a workshop or something?

Yeah, well, I went to the Bristol Olvic drama school to see him

do something.

And

then

went down again when he was playing Dracula there just to see him actually performing.

And then we met him afterwards and had chats with him.

And he was just very sweet, very nice, sense of humor, very interesting looking, you know, this

very tall, slightly stooped, but great sense of humor.

So I was thrilled.

And he came to me, and we got him various jobs.

And

he built up his career.

But the things I had to put up with was,

I mean, I just tell you one little story about

talking to Danny in the evening was that we were having dinner, having a dinner party in our house.

We used to have regular, as Jack will say, dinner parties.

You used to come in and tell Joe,

stand behind the curtain and go, Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

And then stand up and go

and then draw the curtain.

Sometimes we'd forget you were there

just stay behind the curtain all the time

can i come out now

come out now

burst through the curtain it was very sad so you're sitting around the table and the phone rings right so i picked the phone up and say hello and he said oh hello michael

is that michael and i say yes who who is this sorry it's not a terribly convenient time i'm just having a well just want to see hello.

How are you?

And I said, Um, who is this?

Danny, Stannie.

I said,

Darry, no, Danny, Danny Day Lewis.

And I said, Why are you talking like that?

He said, Because I'm doing the film.

You know, I'm doing the film.

I mean, I haven't played.

And that was when he was making that in the name of the father.

In the name of the father.

And I thought, this boy is raving mad.

Why is he?

But no,

he's stayed in character.

And I just find that bit you went slightly off.

You went for lunch with him on set, didn't you?

I know he was doing my left foot.

That's right.

And he ate the lunch with his leg.

With his foot, he put his ruffle on the table.

But he was quite normal.

I mean, he was talking to me completely normally.

He never talked about his work or anything.

It was all kind of social chit-chat and How's Hillary and all that sort of stuff.

There was no, um,

he wasn't intense, but it was just this remaining in character that was so weird.

But then there were several other actors who remained in character, which I thought was

even, I mean, David Suchet, who I adore, David Suchet, and he's a great friend, and

he's he's a terrific actor.

But David wouldn't come out of Poirot until the moustache came off.

So

if he was wearing the moustache during the day, I was filming, he would continue in caricature over there with, you know, Michael, would you like another glass of water?

And I'd say, sorry.

I'm saying it.

It's me.

I'm saying it.

Hook your power is saying it.

So, of course, he is saying it.

Yes, you just go on being Hokio Baro.

There you are.

Good boy.

I tend to take a much shallower cut on my profession.

Yeah.

Would either of you

stay in Carrie?

If I had one, I probably would.

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What's it like to be very famous here and then go to America?

Was it like, oh, here we go, starting over, or were you welcomed with open arms?

I mean, yeah, I think there's it has advantages.

It's quite nice to have a bit of a clean slate because I think over here, sometimes I'm so much in one bracket that it's hard to be seen as anything else because I've been sort of doing it for so long.

So, certainly, in terms of like going and trying to reinvent yourself a bit and try and do some more interesting things and play some different types of characters, it's quite useful.

I mean, it's also strange, not only maybe not being recognized as much in America compared to England, but also now when I go to America, the vast majority of people that would recognize me there is from this show with dad.

So a lot of them would be coming up to me and saying, oh, I love your show on Netflix.

Your dad is hilarious.

And I'm like, that's not a compliment that I want.

And the worst one, this was 100% the worst one, was when we went to America and we were together and we were in a hotel walking through the hotel lobby.

And these two American guys walked past and they recognized Michael and then they carried on walking past and they didn't recognize me.

And so I then not only didn't get recognized, the final sort of just like kick in the bollocks was overhearing their conversation and they were going, oh yeah, that's the guy from Travels with My Father.

And the other guy was like, oh, what's that?

And he goes, oh, it's this great show on Netflix.

It's about an esteemed elderly English gentleman that travels the world with his doofus son.

And I was like, that's not the show.

That's not the pitch.

I was like, that's what I'm introduced to now.

I'm just the doofer son, the hanger on.

I hope you took it out on your father's

son.

So covertly.

Oh, no, he was.

Yeah, he was definitely not told about that coin because I didn't want to feed the ego.

Yeah, that's pretty crushing.

Oh, my God.

You were great.

Jungle Book.

I know

it's a terrible title because it was actually kind of brilliant.

I loved it.

You worked with my friend Emily.

Yeah, yeah.

Emily Blunt, yeah.

She's she's incredible.

She's from like exactly the same part of London as me.

So like our schools were like, you know,

a road apart.

And we grew we grew up going to all of the same shops and and pubs and bars and stuff.

And so the minute I met her, like, we instantly bonded and she was she was so nice and so fun and like made that a really, really wonderful experience.

And like Dwayne I don't think knew what hit him when he first walked onto the set and was sort of working with Emily because she's just got this like wicked sense of humor as you know she just like has no filter whatsoever and

so funny it was like one of the first days on set was awful because I'd I've been a big fan of Dwayne Johnson growing up because I was I'm massively into wrestling and I used to love watching wrestling as a kid and right at the era when he was in his pomp and i said just don't turn yourself into a fan and make sure you act with some like professionalism when you meet him because you know you want to be seen as his equal rather than like fangirling on him so i managed to get through like my first conversation with him and not say anything stupid and i was like i think i've you know acquitted myself correctly there and then a couple of hours later i was there with emily and she's obviously like fooling around she's like i didn't even get what he was a wrestler was he and i was like yeah he was amazing one of the greatest wrestlers of all time he had this move called the Rock Bottom.

She's like, The Rock Bottom?

That sounds sordid.

I was like, No, no, no, it's not sordid at all.

It's just a finisher move.

She's like, Well, what was it?

And then I ended up trying to explain the rock bottom to her.

And then I can't explain it physically.

So I was like, Well, let me sort of show you.

So, if you put your arm over my shoulder, he would like grab the other wrestler, normally be like Stone Cold Steve Austin, and then he'd hoist them up like this.

And I'm then performing the rock bottom on Emily Blonde, at which point Dwayne goes, Jack, are you is that?

Are you trying to do my move?

And then he'd turn around and he was watching this whole thing like play out and i was like oh god this is absolutely awful i'm like rock bottoming mary poppins in front of dwayne and now the cat is out the bag i bet he loves

about him yeah i bet he loved it yeah i also showed him

because i was i did a lot of art when i was younger and i i'd found an old sketchbook and in the sketchbook i'd sketched dwayne

I mean, obviously, when he was the rock and there were all of these sketches of him, and I had them on my phone, and I showed Emily.

Obviously, she yanked the phone out of my hand, and I was taken straight over to Dwayne.

Did you know that Jack used to draw you when he was younger?

And I was like, Okay, well, my mission of not turning myself into a weak, creepy fan.

I have failed.

You're now the stalker.

I'm now the stalker.

I'm now being asked to leave set because I've been drawing my co-star.

I'm sure that is an HR issue.

Where did you guys shoot that?

We shot it in Hawaii and Atlanta.

Um, and yeah, it was.

I'd never like, I'd gone from doing like you know, BBC sitcoms and stuff on a shoestring budget, which are all shot on like an iPhone to suddenly being on like one of those big Disney behemoth movie sets and it was all very overwhelming, but kind of lovely just because it, you know, Emily and him were very nice and were very kind of

John and the family.

Yeah, he flew there to be with her.

Yeah, he's amazing as well.

So it's such like that's such a wonderful partnership.

So yeah, no, that that was really, really fun to to have an experience like that.

Very difficult to then go and do a film like that and then sort of go back to doing

it.

Yeah.

You didn't make a set visit to that one in Hawaii.

No, I think I just got busy.

I've got lots of stuff on.

A lot of monks to see.

Yeah.

A lot of monks to catch up with.

Cardinals.

Cardinals.

Yeah, he doesn't deal with monks now.

Catching up with cardinals.

That could be my next book.

Yeah.

Well, that's the series that you do now that you've got rid of the Doofer Sun.

That's your solo project.

It's just you interviewing a load of cardinals and kissing their rings.

You know, when I was an agent, I used to think I got the best job in the world.

I worked for the agency that became ICM.

It was then called London International.

And I worked for a guy called Robin Fox.

What year is this roughly?

1940, 1930.

David Darrick, he was your first client, wasn't he?

19.

How'd the spekeies come in?

1960.

9.

1969.

Sorry.

And Robin Fox,

who was James and Edward Fox, his father,

I worked for him and he was amazing, as my granddaughter would say, amazing.

And

I had,

first of all, some of his clients helped him with some of his clients.

And then he retired and I took on

some of his clients and some of them I didn't take on because I didn't fancy them.

I don't mean fancy them in that respect.

I mean, fancy.

I'm sure we're not in the clients.

That's good.

But whenever I went to see a client, either of a new client of mine or an established person in the theatre.

I would go to the theatre, I would see the play,

I would see them afterwards, either for a drink or maybe sometimes dinner.

And on my way home, I would think, thank God,

I'm not an actor.

I mean, those poor buggers, they're going to have to do it again.

tomorrow night and then the night after and the night after that

week after week, month after month in some cases.

That's hitting close to home.

Yeah.

And all I've got to do is just go home, come into the office the following morning and check that the commission's coming in nice and smoothly.

That's the job for me.

I am never, ever going to go anywhere near performing.

And I even invented a phrase that I used to say to my clients when I went to see them in a play

backstage that was all that lovely you were darling you were wonderful best player I've ever seen best actor all that sort of bullshit that agents do

but it was the one where the play came off so the notice went up at the end of the first week and when that that kind of thing where the reviews were terrible And the actor would then be ringing me up and saying, oh my God, what am I going to do?

Oh, it's all such a nightmare.

Can you give me any try and cheer me up a bit?

I said, I don't need to cheer you up because the news, from my point of view, is all good.

And the actor would say, Why is that, Michael?

I said, because

up to this moment, you weren't available to me.

You were doing this play.

I've heard this.

It was going to go on.

It's going to go on and on and on, month after month.

I just cross you out of my thoughts and Michael.

Now your play is coming off.

Good.

I can start working for you and getting the big jobs.

The play was always shit.

It should never have been even put on.

Now

I'm taking over and I will get you some fantastic TV, movies, all that.

And they say, oh, Michael, I feel so much better having spoken to you.

And I said, that's why I'm here.

My first and only Broadway play,

it came out of Chicago and it was really well produced and directed, but very kind of lightweight material.

So opening night in New York,

the rim shots were so good with the jokes.

that everyone would burst out with huge laughter and then you could hear them go,

wait, what?

You know, each laugh was that way.

We went to Sardis where you you go in New York to celebrate.

And they were famous people around.

And it was so rock and roll and so exciting.

I was upstairs in the bar upstairs.

And Rex Reed

came.

And

then the reviews, the New York Times came out and people had rushed out to get it.

And Clive Barnes back then was the person who could kill Make or Break a Show.

And Rex Reed hated Clive Barnes.

So Rex Reed grabbed the paper and read Clive Barnes' review of us.

And he ridiculed and mocked Clive Barnes' words while we listened to Clive Barnes just raking us over the coals.

We had to laugh at Rex Reed as we're hearing our demise.

And I turned around to get my drink and the cage came down over the bar.

And the party was over.

Next day, I went to say goodbye to my parents who had come in from Arizona and I put them in a cab and then went to do the matinee and I walked in the stage door and the stage door guy said, well, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, where are you going?

And I said, I work here.

Thank you.

And he went,

not anymore.

You don't.

And he pointed to

closing notice.

There's a one-night stand on Broadway.

Oh,

so I became a TV actor.

Wow.

That's harsh.

That is harsh.

Not anymore you don't pal.

You know, I was so we had our opening the night before last Wednesday night,

the play Ulster America.

And

anyway, I was talking afterwards to Stanley Tucci and he goes,

You know how you can tell that this play's a hit?

And I go, hmm, how and he goes

because people are still here at the party

that's true and it was just like literally if if you if people didn't like the play well you know you don't know how at that point how the critics react but but the fact that people stayed and it was a bubbling party and it went on a few hours you know it was like I was like, that is so insightful, you know, to think of it that way.

When was the last time you did a play, Woody?

18 years ago.

Woof.

Yeah.

You have balls, man.

You have balls.

Yeah.

It's a ballsy endeavor, especially like last night.

You know, they always say second night blues.

But like last night, like literally within the first five minutes, I think I told you,

I went up three times.

And what do they call it here?

Drying?

Drying.

Drying, yeah.

I dried.

three times in five minutes.

Yeah.

Well, once the first one happens, you're like, whoa, you know, you're on your heels.

I dreamt that.

But then the second one happens, you're like, oh, my freaking Jesus.

I'm on my, I'm back.

I mean, I'm against the wall now.

And then the third time happens, I look at Andy Serkis's face and he's looking at me like, are you just going to implode here on the stage tonight?

You know, I mean, I don't know what happened.

It just literally, because we always, we, he and I hit ping pong before.

We just, you know, and we're just going back and forth, gadick, gadick, gadak, gadick, gadoc, as uh, George used to say.

And we're, and we're playing,

and, and I'm drying there.

Like,

there's no pressure yet.

We're not even on stage.

And I'm, I can't think of the, it was something, and I don't know.

It wasn't like I smoked pot the night before.

I didn't do the normal things that inhibit the memory.

The first one you can probably pass off as a dramatic pause, right?

But by the third time,

please,

holy god, this is not a choice.

And then, how many

what we got?

90 more minutes of this?

Anyway, uh,

so, but I was thinking when you said that about how, you know,

like I'm going on tonight and two tomorrow, you know, like, yeah, it's like you, it's, it's one of those things where

you think to yourself, well, I mean, there's got to be some genuine respite.

And like, they do it weird here

because it's eight shows like America, but you know, here you get one day off.

You just get the Sunday and you're back at it Monday.

And it's like,

you know, you know how in America we have the thing where you get the Sunday matinee and then Tuesday or yeah, you're back Tuesday evening.

And it's like, that's.

That's a much more understandable schedule because this thing of like having, you know, just the one day.

You can't go out that night and you know, you can't blow it out.

You get Saturday night, you can blow it out a little bit, but you don't want to overblow because, you know,

did your body fill with adrenaline when you went up?

Oh, fuck yeah, man.

You flush like you're, you just feel the heat rising, sweat like trickling down.

Like, I don't know.

I say, I wish I had been there.

I know.

You would love it.

He celebrates my demise.

Whatever.

You're trying to guess the line, shouting it out.

Just anything.

You throw him off.

Do you have to deal with the hecklers?

Yeah, I had a few, few hecklers.

I mean, I've had like crazy stuff happen on stage.

I had someone

bring and inflate a sex doll.

and chuck it onto the stage.

So that meant they'd smuggled it in and inflated it without me realizing.

And then I was in the middle of a routine and got hit on the side of the head by one of those big inflatable sex dolls with the mouth and that got chucked up onto the stage i was like what do you what do you want me to do with this

yeah

it's a hard hegel to put down um did you ever have any sense of what the that was about and no it's just someone that wanted to kind of you know get their own

get their own laugh yeah but you often yeah i mean you get people that obviously brought their own jokes along as well i had it i was doing a routine this was on the most recent tour, where I start talking about my poodle.

And it's a lot of very light-hearted jokes about having a quite emasculating dog, but all, you know, it's very, very light-hearted.

And I start this routine about my dog.

And I was in Halifax in the north of England, and a guy shouted out, My dog's just died.

And I was like, why would you brought that information?

And then it was horrendous because I had then, and I knew I had like 15 minutes of dog material.

And every single joke that I said was like, well, that would have been a lot funny were we not all thinking about the fact that your dog has just died.

Why would you say that out loud?

And

he completely destroyed the gig for me because he thought that that was

an outside, that was a sort of, yeah, an external thought that he should share with the rest of the room.

But that was one of the worst.

Do you have to like have set things

to shut the heckler up or not?

Yeah, I mean, I try to rattle through it and and try if it's like quite a boisterous audience, just to like, you know, have enough sort of force of energy on stage that I don't allow much space for heckling.

But when something like that happens, you have no choice.

You literally cannot, you cannot continue with the you have to address it, and then that has to become a part of the show.

But I bet you got jokes

based on the fact that, well, yeah, that would have been fun if this dog weren't instantly dead.

Yeah.

And then the next night when you're doing the routine and you're just back to doing it the old way, you're like, oh, maybe I should

build that into the show.

It's actually quite enjoyable by the end, in a kind of pseudo-massistic way.

What you said to me, which I thought was absolutely amazing, is I said to you, because I've seen your tour show, the current one a few times,

I said to you,

you finish the show for the interval at the end in exactly the same moment.

I mean,

the same,

if it's 29 minutes, it's 29 minutes.

There's no fucking around.

It's exactly the same.

And my question to you was, how do you manage to do that when you've got heckles, for example,

or even just, I don't know, something minor, somebody says something to you or whatever.

How do you still manage to come out of that time?

And you said, well, I do what you do, Daddy, Daddy.

do you still call your father daddy?

What's that?

Stephen Seagal.

Stephen Seagal.

Great lad.

I saw that.

I saw that.

I called you dad just now because I growing up.

You call your father daddy?

And you said to me,

I said, what about the hecklers and all that?

And you said, well, I just do what you do, daddy.

You read a lot.

And I just bookmark it.

I said, what do you mean, bookmark it?

You said, well, you put a bookmark in your book and then you know where you've got to.

And I said, but it's not a book.

And he said, no, I put a bookmark in my head.

I said, what do you mean in your head?

What do you mean, stick it in your head?

He said, no, no,

I just have a mental bookmark.

And then I do the heck of it.

And then I come back and I pick it up where I left it off in my head.

And that's.

That's it.

And I said, that sounds so easy to do that.

I thought, unbelievable that you can do that.

Unbelievable.

Seriously, that's.

Well, yeah, you have to.

And

that's what's so great.

That's what I was always be worried about with a play is that there's no leeway to go off and improvise.

Or if you do end up missing a bit or skipping a bit, then

it's such a kind of intricate dance and involving other people as well.

I think that I would find that quite terrifying, having only ever experienced stand-up where it's, you know, you're in complete control and it can change or you can drop something, or it can, you know, deviate from whatever script that you have in your head.

But yeah, that I'm lucky that I've never really had any like too soul-crushing a heckling experience.

The best one I've ever heard was a friend of mine called Joe, who was doing a gig in a pub,

a sort of upstairs room, and not particularly well attended.

It was like 15 people or whatever, so you could hear everything in the room.

And he said he was doing his

shtick, and it was not landing particularly well.

There's not a lot of laughs.

So

he does this joke and it plays to absolutely nothing.

And then he hears a sigh at the back of the room, which is never a good sign when you can hear one of your audience members just sigh.

And he goes, oh,

there used to be a pool table in here.

Oh, God.

Also hard to come back for.

That is, that is crushing.

That is just.

Yeah.

In New York, when he was starting out, have you heard this?

That he would, he would step out on the stage and within 20, 30 seconds, if he didn't like the crowd, he'd say, oh, fuck off, and leave.

Literally, his set

would just decide that these people weren't worth it or they weren't laughing hard enough.

And he would just

dismiss them and walk out.

That's Larry Day, but

in a nutshell.

Incredible.

Yeah.

I might do that.

Yeah, you would do that.

If I ever did something

like that, I would definitely do that.

Michael, do you ever have an actor

new and you brought them up and then they got their first big job, huge job, became famous, and they left you?

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

Still.

That is one of my big regrets in life.

I had this wonderful agent that for years,

well, for about 10 years, and then cheers hit, and I moved on, and I felt like such a kind of shabby, typical Hollywood actor.

And you should.

I am a typical, shabby Hollywood actor,

I confess.

Walking away from this assist.

Did you try to talk him out of it, or did you just say, buzz off?

What happened is actually I rang

an agent in LA who I was very fond of and told him what had happened about this actor.

And he says,

They come,

they go,

who called?

That's all you need to go.

When you come into your office, just say, They come, they go, who called?

Yeah.

Because the next phone call could be,

I hope you like my American accent.

It's better than your Irish one earlier.

Yes.

So, this guy,

I got him a job in a film that Daniel Day-Lewis was going to be playing the part.

And then he decided that he didn't want to do the part.

He wanted to do something else.

Why am I keeping all this anonymous?

Yeah.

You literally banged on the bag.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Slap down.

The guy is called Richard E.

Grant.

Ah.

The film.

With Nail and I.

With Nail and I.

Oh, my favorite.

My favorite.

I love that film.

Daniel Day Lewis was going to do with.

Oh, my God.

And then he was offered a film in England, in America.

He was then offered a film in America.

And he said, I'd really rather do the film in America if that's all right.

And I said, no, it's fine.

I mean, I've only said yes very recently.

So I'll get on to

Bruce Robinson and just say that you've had a...

Well, Bruce Robinson didn't take it well.

No, I mean, talk about the C word.

I mean, I've never heard it used more often towards me, Daniel Day Lewis, and everybody else.

He was absolutely furious.

Anyway,

dissolve.

And a couple of weeks later, he was auditioning people.

And I met this guy called Richard E.

Grant, who had not done anything.

And I just thought he was quite interesting looking.

So I rang Bruce and said, How it's going with the recasting.

And Bruce said, I'm never going to talk to you again.

What you did to me, what you did to me with Danny Day-Lewis.

I know you just talked him out of here.

You wanted to make more money, more commission in America.

You're just a fucking asshole.

And I said, look, I'm just ringing to try and be helpful to you, Bruce.

I've got this actor.

And he said, so what's his name?

And And I said, Richard E.

Grant.

He said, Richard E.

Grant.

You made that fucking name up, haven't you?

Just to get me annoyed.

Richard E.

Crant, it should probably be his name.

You bastard, and I know what this is all about.

It's Colin Firth, free.

I said, Colin Firth is completely wrong for the parts in Withnolai, and you know it, and he's not available.

Oh, typical of you.

Now, what about Daniel DeLewis?

i said no don't go down what about daniel delewis again he's doing enough of me he's actually working on it now now will you see richard e grant he said all right i will and slammed the phone down then richard went met them

had did four five auditions and recalls and everything

and then finally he was offered the part and then of course bruce was all oh michael thank you so much and i think this boy is wonderful.

And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I thought, here I am.

I'm going to get a huge amount of

satisfaction, thanks,

everything

from Richard for having got him the part.

No,

he moved almost straight away.

Yeah.

Wow.

But it's fine.

He's

fine.

By the way, I'm so sank to hear that you were the one who had the idea of Richard E.

Green, because I can't imagine anyone else doing this part.

He's amazing in that part.

You think about Daniel De-Lewis, who is an incredible actor, but you can't even picture him doing that.

You can picture him and with Nail.

And Richard Griffiths was in that Richard Griffiths.

I was thinking, I was going to bring it up earlier

because of that.

That's one of my favorite comedies of all time.

Even,

you know, sorry about you and Bruce not being.

No, it was.

It was a fantastic film.

It wasn't hugely successful at the time, but has been a lot of people.

It just became

classic as they are.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's the perfect acid test as well.

Whenever I show it to someone, I'm like, if you like with Nell and I, then we can be friends.

It's like the movie I go to.

Yeah, well,

conversely, if you don't like it, I don't think you're going to be.

I don't want it.

Exactly.

I want to ask you, because you are a podcaster.

I didn't know what a podcast was.

I know a lot of people will say that's made up, but I promise you it wasn't.

A year ago,

we were asked to do a podcast, my charming wife, Hilary, and I, and I said, what the fuck is a podcast?

And they told me, and I thought, I don't want to do that.

I mean, what are the people listening, are they?

And they said, yeah, of course they're listening.

I said, what do they listen on then?

On the radio?

No, on their phone, on their phones.

And I said, I promise you.

And anyway, boom.

so then this company called, it's a little company in Leicester Square,

Global, yes.

Used to be next door to the,

well, it still is, next door to the OD in Leicester Square, which was the

place to go for the big movies.

I mean, I've seen a lot of both of your movies premiere at

Odie.

Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

And

so

we said, yes, we do it.

And it's basically just Hillary and me whitering with each other.

I can't remember half of my stories.

I don't even know most of the time where I am or what I'm doing.

So she drives the thing along and has got all these followers now.

And we even did one in.

very near your charming club in Los Angeles.

We went to one a couple of weeks ago um so it's yeah it's doing very well so you do them live 71 no it's just us it's just literally hillary and i chatting oh so you were in a studio near the yeah that's expensive

but um there's a lot of very indiscreet stories and now i will sometimes be made aware of the stories that you've been telling on your podcast because it will end up in newspapers and

you'll get Google alerts.

I would never have been

airing our dirty laundry in public and talking about

in my conception, like the explosive nappies that I used to have as a child.

There was one the other

change.

Yeah, okay.

No, I've heard that story so many times.

You were talking about how I got busted watching pornography on the sky television device, and I'd left it on.

And then I tried to blame my brother, and you're talking about all of this on the podcast.

And then I discovered because then there's like a news story about me,

my parents talking about the time that I watched porn at home.

and I'm like, nothing is sacred now.

And I like the way you phrase the time.

The time, you know,

the time you got.

The time, the time, exactly.

I was normally so careful,

such a stealthy masturbator.

One time.

Oh, Laura.

There are other topics.

There are other topics.

There are other things.

I think you're slightly over

cooking.

It's very sweet.

Are you enjoying doing a podcast?

Yeah, it's great.

Yeah, me too.

Because Hillary does all the work.

Oh, yeah.

She's got all the...

I can tell that's how this dynamic works.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Ted's there, like studious,

prepping for every single show, doing the research.

And then he sweeps in.

Sweeps in.

Who's this we're talking to today?

Some guy with his doofor son.

Yeah, I'll be able to wing it.

No, we're loving doing it.

We love podcasts.

And someone else around this table did a podcast for a bit, but they seemed to run out of steam rather quickly

because.

Well, how could you fit anything more in?

It seems like you have your hands in every pot.

Yeah.

I do.

I did a bit of podcasting.

I enjoy podcasting.

But yeah.

it's it's great it's that you you forget that you're being recorded yeah as i think we've proven in the last yeah hour you know as long as you don't listen back yeah you're fine absolutely fine you guys are so sweet to come in.

I'll ask, dude, did you ask?

I would mention, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, thank you, yeah, thank you so much.

Thanks, thanks, man.

This has been a pleasure to meet you.

Yeah, really huge, so cool.

You guys, thank you very much.

Look at you, you're a delight.

You really are.

Well,

thanks, good stuff,

lovely pleasure.

Meet you.

And when we head to LA next,

heading to the woods.

You know, you got it.

Call me.

Yeah.

Are you up for that?

Yeah.

Visiting Woody's dispensary.

Gummies?

You don't have gummies or a CBD or any of that?

Nothing for your aches and pains.

No,

no, you serve tea at the woods.

I don't.

Yeah, yeah, just a little tea.

Little tea?

Tea at the woods.

Like a tea room.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, the place I went to.

It was very nice.

Yeah, see?

Yeah, it was sweet.

I met Paul McCartney there.

Yeah.

Bye, you guys.

Thank you so much.

Bye.

That was Jack and Michael Whitehole talking with me and Woody in London last year.

Check out all five seasons of Travels with My Father on Netflix.

You will love them, I guarantee it.

Special thanks to Voxpod Studios in London for hosting our podcast and to our friends at Team Coco.

If you haven't already, please subscribe on your favorite podcast app and give us a great rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you have a mind to.

Means a lot.

We'll have more for you next week, where everybody knows your name.

Happy holidays.

You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Dance and Woody Harrelson.

Sometimes.

The show is produced by me, Nick Leo.

Executive producers are Adam Sachs, Colin Anderson, Jeff Ross, and myself.

Sarah Fedorovich is our supervising producer.

Our senior producer is Matt Apodaka.

Engineering and Mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez.

Research by Alyssa Grawl.

Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista.

Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Gen, Mary Steenbergen, and John Osborne.

Special thanks to Willie Navarre.

We'll have more for you next time where everybody knows your name.

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Hey, everybody, it's Paul Scheer, host of How Did This Get Made, a podcast that covers the best, worst movies.

This week, we're diving into the brand new War of the Worlds reboot, starring Ice Cube.

Yes, the movie that got 2% on Rotten Tomatoes.

Ice Cube is saving the world from aliens via his computer.

It's so convoluted, this plot, but basically, if you have an Amazon account, you can save the day just like Ice Cube.

There is so much going on in this movie.

So, join me, June Diane Rayfield, and Jason Manzukis, as we break down every bizarre choice and every Ice Cube one-liner on this week's episode of How Did This Get Made, the podcast that makes sense of movies that don't.