BONUS: René Redzepi

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Most of Europe was predominantly French food.

The question was very simple.

What else is around us?

Welcome back to where everybody knows your name.

Today I am very excited to drop this bonus episode with one of the world's greatest chefs, Renee Redzepe.

Renee is a co-founding head chef of the three Michelin-starred restaurant NOMA in Copenhagen.

It's no overstatement to say that NOMA has changed the global dining scene through their creative use of Nordic ingredients.

Renee recently starred in a new Apple TV Plus series called Omnivore, which explores the ingredients that built societies and changed human history.

I highly encourage you to check it out.

I was fascinated when I watched it the other day.

So glad Renee could join me remotely from Kyoto, where his restaurant NOMA has been doing a residency.

Here he is, the remarkable Renee Redzepe.

First off, usually, Rene, I do this with Woody Harrelson.

That's the name of the podcast, you know, hosted by Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes because he's a very whimsical creature and is all over the world.

And I think you experienced some of his whimsicalness in kyoto

ben asked me

please ben asked me to ask you to tell him about it tell us about it it was hilarious we get a phone call

it's woody harrelson uh can he come by

sure but you know we have don't really have any seats but no no he just wants to come by and see it he's he's been to copenhagen before then he comes to the restaurant it's in the middle of lunch the restaurant is full of people

and the sommelier maize, she's showing him around.

And in the center of the restaurant, there's a big champagne cooler made of a solid piece of wood.

And suddenly he just goes over to the champagne cooler and he puts his head into it.

And it's like half-melted ice.

And he just does like,

and then he lifts his head up and then he just sort of splashes the water around.

Meanwhile, the whole restaurant is frozen because they had, of course, seen Woody Helsin walking through the restaurant and then splashing his face in the champagne cooler.

And then he went out to our little garden we had as if he just needed a refreshment.

It was really, truly an iconic moment.

I've never, I've actually

never experienced anything as iconic as that in a restaurant.

I've experienced stupid things and bad things, but this was just,

yeah, well, you need a refreshment.

And

he just did it.

It was incredible, actually.

That is my friend Woody Harrelson.

I am so it was fantastic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm so buttoned up.

I would never dream of doing something like that.

Was the restaurant full of

tourists from all over the world or Japanese people?

So we have half Japanese and half tourist, but I think Woody Harrelson is universally known.

So like everybody stopped in their tracks, you know, like sort of with a fork halfway to their mouth, you know, just staring at

this person.

That story of Woody Harrelson has gone all over the world because people from all over the world witnessed that.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

I mean, he's definitely becoming a legend in our part of the world, in the restaurant trade, because he so loves food,

like you, but, you know, he really is into food in the sense that he's also quite sort of almost like an advocate for better ways and that we should change our systems and so on and and so forth.

And of course, he's a vegan.

So, when he eats something that he loves, he's one of those people that just expresses it.

And it's so amazing because when you work in a restaurant, the biggest joy is when guests are happy, when they truly express their happiness.

And you feel, okay, I just work 16 hours, it doesn't matter.

Look how happy he is.

And he truly does that.

And so he's like one of the best guests you can have, even though that he will splash his head in

the champagne cooler.

And, you know, sometimes he goes for a smoking break for 30 minutes.

Yeah.

And not tobacco, by the way.

Of course not.

Tobacco.

He comes back even happier.

So that's great.

And loves everything better.

With a bit of the munchies.

So he's the perfect guest.

No,

yeah, it's

yeah, it's funny because it's it's sometimes you have guests and they just become a friend of the house.

Yes.

And that happened to Woody.

And he just became a friend of the house.

And last time they were in Copenhagen, you know, they just dropped by and we have actually a therapist that works with us, like a massage therapist.

And he jumped in on a session and he got a session while his wife waited and then she got a session.

Just,

you know, with the team.

Yeah, I think he's

hoping.

He's hoping to buy, I think, or whatever something, at least a houseboat.

That's his dream to get a houseboat in Copenhagen.

Yeah, he should definitely do it.

I think Copenhagen is his type of place.

I honestly think so.

Oh, it's ever.

We're madly in love with it.

Let me also give a shout out to Ben, who's your business partner now,

right?

Even though

he still connected to he's not connected to the everyday life of NOMA.

No, he lives in Australia.

Right.

But

we worked eight years together.

And we've done a TV show together called Omnivore.

I know.

I love it.

And

we run that department together.

Yeah.

Well,

I would love to talk about that in a second.

But the other person, I mean, Ben helped us get this together, which we're all very excited about.

And

Mary's, my wife, Mary Steenburgen,

son, Charlie McDowell, who's married to Lily Collins.

And they live in Copenhagen, but they were also responsible because they met Ben.

And they were,

we were, because it's very hard to get into the restaurant because everybody from all over the world flies in and it sometimes takes a year to get in, to get a reservation.

We were lucky enough.

Mary and I have had dinner there three times.

And so I just want to give a shout out to all those people who made this possible.

Also, my friend

Phil Rosenthal.

I love the conversation you you had with him that was fun to watch yeah yeah he's amazing he's also a a true enthusiast and there's not many of them but when you meet a true enthusiast you have to

keep them close yes he brings joy he brings joy to the subject of food uh he's you know he's infectious i love uh

i he's like a he can be he'll he'll be willing to be as silly as need be to bring people in to listen to, you know, the story of NOMA or whatever.

To me,

he's more than that.

He brings optimism to the world.

He is

a fix of positivity, you know, in a sometimes otherwise

dimly lit

world.

You know, he just,

hey, let me turn on the light a little bit for you guys.

And that's amazing.

Can we talk about NOMA from my

experiences point of view?

Which is, first off, the anticipation is huge because it's very hard to get in.

And you've heard how amazing, and you, but you can't really picture it.

And then

you're greeted at the driveway at the end of the road, and then you walk by these buildings that you realize are where you do the testing, and the test kitchen, and the labs, and everything.

And there are fields of flowers, which you somehow realize you're probably going to have some of them for dinner.

So, this builds and builds until you come to the front door, doors, which are huge.

And when the first time we were there, we walked under this kind of canopy of branches.

So, it felt like you were walking into

the woods or something.

And then you open the doors,

and all of a sudden, there are, I don't know how many, 20, 30 people who are, I guess, sous chefs, staff, you know, waiters, everybody, who are saying hello and greeting you and welcoming you.

And it's not an affectation.

It's not a great ploy.

It is genuinely people, and you feel it, who are so excited that you're about to come in and experience something that they have worked.

joyfully but very hard on, you know, very hard

to make this meal you're about to have.

So the sense,

and

are they applauding too?

I can't remember if there's an applause or just the

verbal, it's verbal greeting of you.

So immediately you have this huge smile on your face, and the anticipation is growing.

Tell me about that.

Tell me how when, was that a purposeful thing?

Yeah, I mean, it was.

And I have not really shared this story many times, but

so

when I was young, you know, my family, they are Albanians, Albanians from the former Yugoslavia,

from a small community there where, you know, all these people lived together in this sort of communist nation that fell apart in the beginning of the 90s.

And

before it truly fell apart and the terrible war happened,

we,

one night, I remember me and my brother, we got woken up in the middle of the night, and the whole family was up.

We were young boys.

And we got taken to the car

and then we drove.

And I remember turning back in the car in the backseat, and I was looking at my entire family, aunties, cousins, you name it, and they were all crying and they were all waving.

And

that is the reason why I wanted a greet and a meet and a goodbye.

That is

kind of like the most impactful memory I have of somebody saying goodbye to you or

this human connection as you're leaving or as you're entering, you know?

And

so it came from that.

Of course,

when you then open it

into a restaurant or do it in a restaurant,

it started with also us just wanting the cooks to step into

the dining room a little bit more.

And instead of being so hidden away, why aren't you seeing?

Why aren't we seeing the guests and the ones we're cooking for?

We should notice them.

And then those two things together just ended up being sort of the noma greeting, which is very impactful to a lot of people, no doubt about it.

And

ever so often we change it slightly so it doesn't become mechanic or staged, so that it feels like, hey, no, now I'm standing in a new place.

And

I always tell people,

don't greet people like you're their waiter.

You have to relax around them, almost as if friends are coming to your house.

How would you greet them?

And for

a few hours, that's what happens in a restaurant.

You know, it's more than a transaction when you go to a place like Noma or other restaurants.

You have to commit to,

hey, we're having a night together.

And either we're going to enjoy it and it's going to be, you know, concentrate and focus and we're going to give it our all.

Or else it's just not worth working at NOMA or even operating NOMA.

I mean, I just wouldn't do it.

I need to be in that place where it's everything.

And

it starts by looking people in the eye when they come through the door and saying, hello, welcome.

How you know your guests?

I have never felt, I mean, I'm an actor.

I know how to turn it on or be charming or, you know, and sometimes, hopefully it's real.

God, I sound horrible, don't I?

But I can sense when something is

manufactured to try to create an impression.

This

was not, I mean, you, you, everyone in our group had like, Our cheeks ached from how much we were smiling because it was so genuine.

genuine.

You know, you walked through the doors and boom, something you are now in a different experience than you've ever had in your life.

And it starts with that greeting.

Then, let me move to the next kind of thing I noticed as I walked in.

My wife, Mary, loves design.

You know, so we always are looking at how things are built and everything.

That is one of the most beautiful spaces I've ever been in.

It is so conscious and gorgeous and reflects,

you know, the quality, not the quality, but the experience you're about to have starts with the architecture as well.

Will you talk a little bit about that and who designed that and what the thought was?

Yeah.

So if we go back to

the first NOMA, we are 21 years old now, and we've only been at this location for about seven years.

And we were going to hold a party,

a big party, and we were looking for a space.

And then Peter Kreiner, my

partner at NOMA, he was looking at this derelict building in a very

old part of town, but complete derelict part of town.

And he said, well, guess what?

I found a place.

for uh

i didn't find a place for a party but i find a i found where we're going to put the new NOMA because I'd asked around and said, it's time for us to do something.

We have a lot of success, but it's also very repetitive.

We need to change something.

And we thought moving would be a good thing to do.

And I biked out there immediately when he called me because it's rare to get such a phone call.

And I fell in love with this space.

It's a hectare of land, which is, I think, it's two acres more or less.

It's in Copenhagen.

There's a lake in front.

They can never be built around it because it's national heritage land.

It's just unique.

You really have a small oasis in a city.

And then we got to work, and then we finally figured out who we could sort of rent the land from.

And then we contacted, which today, you know, today he's a megastar.

Piarke Ingels is his name.

He's got big architects who's done buildings all throughout the world.

And we contacted him and we told him that we'd like to have a series of buildings that represented the surrounding neighborhood, which is the free town of Christiania.

And in the free town of Christiania, buildings are not

everything is a little different.

It's sort of quirky.

And so we wanted that.

And we also wanted to be inspired by a tradition,

which is in the Scandinavian old tradition of building a farm, say, you would have separate building for all the different uses of a farm.

So

of course animals in one place, a living space in one place, but also bathroom in another space and so on and so forth.

Different buildings.

And then the third thing we told him is that everything needs to be handmade, but it can't feel like wood shop.

It still f needs to feel like like it's modern.

And then we spent two years on putting putting things together and literally sitting hours and hours and hours and discussing every corner, every nook and cranny, every detail, every piece of fabric again and again and again and again until we're ready.

And then we pull, we sort of pull the trigger on it.

And then, you know, we in one of the buildings has 200,000 screws in, for instance, and it's a tiny building that's 80 square meters.

In, you know, there was eighty stonemasons that did one of the other buildings because it's done in an old technique that very few know how to do.

It needed to be crafted but modern at the same time.

And it needed to be something that could last forever.

So it was actually interesting because the first thing he did looked like a modern museum.

I hope, Bjake, if you listen to this, I'm sorry, but it, you know, and I told him, I said, do you know that I will be spending 12 to 16 hours a day in this place?

This is going to be our home.

We're going to have our main meal of our lives here.

I need to step into this and feel like I am in an oasis, you know.

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Did you add the planks?

They're these beautiful beams throughout structural beams.

And then I think I'm remembering this correctly.

There are planks across some of them with plants that tumble down from the planks.

Was that part of his design, or did you add that to make it?

No, that we added as interior design.

Yeah.

So the big strokes Bjake did, and then interior design was an interior design architect called David Tolstrup.

But besides that, we also have,

well, I guess you would call her a stylist, but it's a person that worked with us for 21 years.

And she has all the...

Yeah.

the details, you know, finding that piece of moss that goes on the wall for the forest season.

And Christine and I, we know each other very well.

We have meetings constantly where we're planning the next season ahead, what are we going to do this year, how we're going to set it up.

Actually, she's here right now in Kyoto with a team of three.

And they have been in the forest for the last three days finding a specific type of bark that's going to be put on the ceiling here.

And they actually, right behind me here, they found this at the flea markets in Kyoto.

This is old

fabric that's used for the production of miso.

Oh, wow.

And we used it on our walls.

It's the most beautiful color.

Yeah,

it's gorgeous.

We both, three times we've been there, we were lucky enough to have one of the tables right by the outdoor windows that can sometimes open.

And I was facing across the lake, and

there's this big building with this huge smokestack, which I think was designed by the same architect.

But I sat there, my first reaction was, oh my God, we're in this heavenly, magical place, and there's a factory right across the way, belching smoke into the air.

And then somebody pointed out

what this building was and how magical it is, because it takes garbage from part of Copenhagen and does something to it.

The process that just steam is coming out and it provides electricity for 30,000 families in Copenhagen.

On the backside, there's a ski slope that you can ski down the slant of the far side of the building.

There's a climbing wall.

It's just,

here you are.

This is what I think

Denmark does so well.

Your design is so beautiful, but it's always functional.

It's not, you know, purpose.

It always has a purpose.

And that just blew me away, that that was across the way from you and designed by the same man who the same architect.

Yeah, no, definitely.

It's a magical place.

I actually, my main passion besides my family and my work is hiking.

So I actually train on that hill.

It's called Coben Hill.

And I train for when I need to go on my long, strenuous hikes.

I will go 10 times up and down.

It's like, it's 500 meters, you know,

from the beginning of the slope and all the way up.

And it's 90 meters up in the air.

And people hike it daily, and people ski on it.

It's some sort of modern technology in the incinerator that does all the electricity so that it actually captures all the smog and only the steam that goes into the sky, and then these pellets of smog are captured.

It's a special thing.

I think if you haven't been up there there next time,

you should definitely walk it.

Because you can see all of Copenhagen.

And I think about this thing about Denmark, I mean, we are a small place.

We are like six million people.

And we have space around us.

And it's also a society where almost everything you make have to be made for people.

And you have to figure out almost always

how can everyone get a use

and a joy from whatever is being made, which is a very great thing to do, actually.

I don't want to dwell on this part, but we've gone twice to the Museum of Design, which in Copenhagen, which is,

I could spend days in there.

It's amazing.

It's so amazing.

Let me go to the next thing that strikes you, or me, when we sat down and observed the room and we were greeted.

But then the service began.

The

people who serve you come up and

they describe what's going to be going on for you.

And

there are wine pairings, or if you don't drink wine, there's different kinds of juices that are paired with each course, and you get all the information.

But then, the actual service of somebody coming to fill your water glass, and naturally, somebody at the table will ask them a question because you're so fascinated by what's going on.

And instead of, oh, I have a job, I can't really talk to you, or I'll make it brief and cursory, they stop and tell you exactly or talk to you, you know,

genuinely in that moment.

And without really noticing it, somebody comes up behind that person and takes the water pitcher without you really even kind of noticing.

And the water service continues as this

other person who's serving you continues the conversation.

It's like your tag team with this most elegant, but

homey, real

kind of service.

It just knocked me out.

And everyone was so full of,

I'm assuming, these are my words, happiness and pride of being there and being part of this.

All the people working there have this sense of joy and pride.

I'm sure that there's lots of other stuff going on in their life, but that's what we as customers get in your, in your restaurant.

How did you work on that?

How did you, was that a big part of the training?

Yeah,

I think

to build

like a culture where people, they go to work and they every day they are like, I'm gonna

give everything I have and be, you know, 0.0001% better than the day before.

That is something very special.

You need a very unique culture, and that doesn't just happen overnight.

I think it's something that we built up over many years.

And then

I'm still there

daily.

We have a strong team of managers.

My right-hand man in the kitchen, it's 16 years we've been working together.

Peter Kreiner is 18.

The two head of the test kitchens is 12 years each, and so on and so forth.

And all this combined makes for people that go to work, and you know, there's an energy that you fuel, that you get fuel from

one another.

And then, so that's the most important: it's to build the right culture for any organization, I would say.

And that's hard.

But then

if you are,

I guess, looking at this sort of

the genuine service style, what is that and how do you get to not have it feel staged or like paid actors just handing you food and replicating what the chef told you, but it feels so

staged and there's no emotion in it.

That is more hard to actually

to get through.

One of the first times when I really started realizing that we needed to work on this was when I read the book Down and Under in Paris by George Orwell.

In it, he has a

he he's like lives as a tramp in Paris and he finds himself working in

a restaurant in Paris.

And he's a plunger, a plunger or a dishwasher, and he ends up hating the wait staff

because you know he'd watch the wait staff and they'd come to work in their,

you know, in their regular workman outfit, and then they'd dress up in butterflies and be all, and then they'd act as if they sort of belonged with the people.

And

he hated this act that happened, as opposed to them just coming to work and say, I am who I am, but I'm still going to be professional, but I'm not going to change myself or how I

talk to people.

And that was the first time where I was like, okay, we need to

really work on that for service because that is something that

makes it not genuine.

I was already feeling it when I was young, 25, 26, going to restaurants, being, ah,

I feel this is static.

I feel I'm not comfortable, you know.

And

it turns out that the more comfortable that the staff is, like if 20 years ago, if you had piercings in a restaurant, it was complete no-go or tattoos or green hair, you know.

It was a few years in where we're like, if people want to have a nose piercing, let's just let them have a nose piercing in the restaurant, you know.

Somebody asked me, hey, if there's a man that wants to wear a dress to work, can he do it?

I said, yeah, sure, as long as it's part of what we're wearing, you know.

If that really is truly what makes that person confident and he will step into work and say, I'm here, I'm ready to do the work, we should do it.

And that made a big difference.

And then over time, you build up something that's really, really, really strong.

Everybody feels like they're stakeholders in the restaurant, that they're not just being paid.

by you, that you, that to some level or not,

they're part of this whole operation.

And I heard you talk to somebody on, I think, a podcast or somewhere where you had, I don't know if it was a Sunday or whatever, where each people got to experience creating something for the group that was new, something they came up with.

I don't know if that, you know, is part of the wait staff kind of thing, but there was.

an attempt by you not only to discover new stuff and benefit from it, but that people found themselves all of a sudden,

I'm an important ingredient in this restaurant because I'm getting to create and show you what I can do.

We call that Saturday Night Projects.

It happened for many, many years.

It was very tough to do because it was at the end of the week on a Saturday, like 1 a.m.

And at that point,

each member

or one member of each of the sections

had to have prepared,

it didn't need to be a dish, but it needed to be something from the past week that they've been working on or that they is a part that was a part of the section that they were

curious about.

Why are we doing it like that?

Is there a better way?

Or

I am working with this, but I am from Colombia.

So I've actually took this sorrel leaf and I did this because that's how we would do it in Colombia.

And then they would present it to everyone.

And that moment of presentation, young cook stepping up, 40 other cooks looking at you, is nerve-wracking.

It's like center stage for the first time.

People would be shaking.

They would discover that, I had this idea, I was sure it was going to work.

And then when I tested it, it was terrible.

I'm like, well, you know, that's how it is.

And

it was such an intimate moment to do this.

And I think a lot of people over time, they also help, it helped them figure out what do I actually want to do with my cooking career.

Like, for instance, Rocio Sanchez, which was she was a sous chef, she was a part of the test kitchen.

A woman from Chicago of Mexican descent,

you know, she had the resume that was glowing.

She'd been to all the best restaurants in the world.

She worked with us nearly a decade.

And through

these Saturday night projects, she found out, I'm going to open a taqueria in Copenhagen.

This is actually

what I want and what I love.

And,

you know, week by week, we'd watch people hone in on the true

cooking of themselves, you know, as opposed to trying to perhaps

impress people with technique and trying to do a sort of a fine dining dish.

And it was, you had moments of pure magic, actually.

Someday, there was an example.

We have Meta.

She's here now.

She's with us for 12 years.

She's here with her family and her son.

And she just came to us 12 years ago.

And her first Saturday night projects, she steps up and she says, Well, I've done something a little strange.

I hope you're going to like it.

And she was nervous, shaking nervous, visibly nervous.

And she made a cabbage dessert, you know.

And I'm there in front of her.

I'm saying, listen, Mede, of all the things you could have chosen,

you're setting yourself up.

It's going to be hard, you know?

People are going to be eating cabbage for dessert.

But the thing is, it was incredible.

And the quality of the idea was incredible.

I wrote it down.

I can't remember it today.

But the quality of the idea and the reason for it was not just, hey, let me put something weird on dessert so I can shock people.

There was a true quality behind the idea.

And for that reason, it was like, wow, Meda, you nailed it.

I mean, we've never had a cabbage dessert on the menu, but

it showed

like a fearlessness and a depth of thinking and

somebody that had true leadership.

in her, you know,

because to step up like that, that was something else.

And today she's the head of the test kitchen and she's a creative mind.

Unlike most, she has a creative mind unlike most people.

Yeah.

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I've been on the road, so basically I've been eating in restaurants for the last month.

So I'm going to throw this to my producer, Nick Liao.

Nick.

Well, Ted, I can cook a meal for you because I've been enjoying Home Chef.

Nice.

I'm looking forward to trying the Smoky BBQ Chicken Thighs, which is a good summer meal.

Smoky chicken thighs.

Smoky barbecue chicken thighs.

How does it sound?

You got me coming over to your place.

Yeah, please.

Anytime.

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So then comes the food.

And I think

I have this, my memory right, that the first,

it didn't happen all three times we went there, but the first time we were there, we had a soup

that

came, I think, in a large,

by the way, everything you serve on is like to die for beautifully designed, amazing.

pottery or wood or whatever it is, just beautiful.

But I can't remember how the soup came in what kind of container, but it was gorgeous.

And then there were flowers and

you thought, oh, am I supposed to take these flowers out and then drink the soup?

Because literally you could, it was hard to get your mouth, your lips, your nose down to the rim to get, which is what you were supposed to encourage to do.

So it was like sticking your face into,

you know,

bending down and walking through this field and deciding to have some soup directly from the ground.

And then the liquid that came into your mouth, it was kind of like how, for me, it was like when you taste a really good caviar, it's like, oh, I'm tasting the ocean.

That soup to me was, oh, I don't know how, but I just tasted the most delicious, most

fertile piece of earth that I've ever, you know, well, who's ever had drunk earth?

But it was like that.

It somehow captured that essence.

Just tell me about that one and then I'll

move on.

Well,

it's actually

a sort of a creative concept that we have done quite a few times.

We're doing it also on this menu in a different way.

And that was something that was inspired by one of my masters that I worked with.

His name is Ferran Adria.

He had a legendary restaurant called El Guli.

He's probably the most influential chef of the past half decade decade or half century, I'd say.

And he used to complain that people would, you know, the food would come in front of people and they just eat.

They wouldn't smell the food.

He said, smell the food.

And he would do all these things and try to go into the restaurant, say, smell it first, please.

And, you know, he was right, but he was really so animated about it, actually.

And at one point, he made a little fork in which there was like

a

sort of a clip-on on the fork and where he would clip on a little herb.

And then as you would put your fork to your mouth, there would be this little clip-on with a little herb.

And then you'd smell like a spring of thyme.

And

yeah.

So I guess we furthered that and thought, well, as you're drinking soup, why aren't we taking advantage of that void between the bowl and your face and have people just dunk their head into

the very thing that they're drinking

and so when you come to vegetarian season which this was when you came you know we want

you you're forced to do it you cannot not put your head into the in into the all the plants right and of course we add all sorts of scents and things in there so that when you really drink you need to breathe and then you take in this aroma

And when you finally, for once,

every few

times in a year or in a month, use all your senses at the same time, smelling and tasting, hearing and seeing,

then it's very powerful.

When all senses are in use, it's incredible.

I'm going to jump around for a second because I want to go back to one more dish.

But what you just described is

what I left with.

And when I think about NOMA, It's like going to the most beautiful ballet

or the most beautiful gallery art or

opera or music or something that is just supremely

creative and beautiful.

You walk away.

just in touch with your own creativity and wanting to excel and wanting, I couldn't wait to go act again.

I couldn't wait to do something that was my creative expression, nothing to do with cooking, but you, you,

what I, you're just

NOMA, it feels like, and what you're doing just is oozing creativity and excellence.

And it's inspiring because it makes you want to go off and do the same thing.

Yes, you're getting incredible food and incredible tastes and flavors that you've never experienced before.

There are times where literally I went, well, I have never tasted that, but it feels so familiar and right,

which is amazing.

That was me.

I think

can I comment on this?

Because I think there's something very important about all of this, which is this human connection and the culture and the energy and the creativity and the spacing, the setting is so hugely important.

Most people don't have the best meal experiences in the best restaurants.

It's at a beach and they're eating a sandwich, perhaps, or just a grilled octopus.

But they're with people they really love and they have a drink, and it's a magical moment, and suddenly the stars are out, or they're in a forest, or it's a special party.

And I genuinely think if you are able to

have this energy

that I can't describe what it is, but there is a certain energy when a group of people come together and they all go for the same thing, and the setting is also enhances that.

I mean,

you could almost serve gulash, you know, and people still leave with something.

Yeah.

The best, the best, I do a lot of ocean activism on the board of directing of Oceana, which is about,

you know, in essence, it's about making sure that the world's fisheries remain sustainable so that because if you do that correctly, you could feed a billion fish meals a day to the world.

And it's a nutrition that so many people desperately need.

So, anyway, that's what I do.

But people ask me, what's your favorite piece of fish?

Favorite piece of fish I ever had was

a sardine boat that came in.

It was in Bass Country.

I don't know if it was on Aribia or San Sebastian or someplace.

And the fish came, we watched it get offloaded.

And then, you know, a bucket full up to where we were uh being hosted by this union of fishermen and they threw it on a grill and there was bread and olive oil and boom that was your fish sandwich and it was truly the most beautiful tasting fish i've ever had because of that whole the freshness the freshness and the whole experience of it was amazing Let me do one last dish and then

I'd like to move to other things.

But

so you're just having this magical meal of tasting things you never tasted, and some you knew, and it was just the most delicious version of that you'd ever tasted.

And then came, I think, the second to last course, I thought it was the last,

was somewhat sweet.

So I thought, oh, this is dessert, and this will be the end, and how amazing.

And then, oh, look, they're coming out with this candle.

How sweet.

They have a little candle they're probably going to light for us to say goodbye.

But no, the candle was dessert.

It was entirely edible.

The wick wick was some sort of, I don't know, crushed nut or something.

Walnut.

Yeah.

And it was like,

so

there's something, it sounds like, oh, is this tricky?

Or no, you're fascinated.

You're absorbed by the beauty and the creativity of what you've done.

And then it tastes unbelievable.

I'll never forget that moment.

Yeah.

Well, it's also the last moment of that meal.

And,

you know, usually by dessert time, people are like, okay, I'm done.

I'm full.

And

if you can just have that final

goodbye.

But at the same time, that specific serving, it's actually a sort of a fudge, I guess, or caramel.

Yeah, it's delicious.

And

yeah, and the thing is, when you have put the wick in, which is just a thinly sliced walnut, the natural oils in the walnut can actually

will act like a wick.

So you just

you can you can turn, you can put a walnut on fire in your home later today and test it.

There's so much oil in it, it just stays on.

You adults do not you kids, but go on, yes.

Yeah,

and so

because of that heat that it gets

on the way to the table and as people blow it out, it tempers the caramel perfectly.

Oh my god, see, so that when you eat it, it's just, how can this be such, you know, there's a slight chew, but then it just melts and it doesn't stick to my teeth.

How's that happen?

And that's a lot to do with

the correct temperature.

Unbelievable.

This is a podcast, so I'm supposed to be letting you do most of the talking, but I had to.

I had to express all of this to you.

Mary and I and everyone we were sitting with felt this.

And to be able to have the opportunity to describe what it meant to me, what it felt like, I so appreciate.

I will now ask other questions, but I

truly one of the most, three of the most memorable evenings I've ever had.

And it is the creativity.

Can you describe, why did you not find a restaurant where you served the most amazing, this is silly, but the most amazing steaks and most amazing vegetables and potatoes, you know, because that's honorable or whatever, or the most, or Italian food or whatever.

What is it that is your philosophical

guide

to creating a restaurant like NOMA?

Are you?

Yes, sorry.

Yeah.

Why?

I mean,

so it's been evolving quite a lot over 21 years.

The first original seed was

here we are in Scandinavia, what actually exists around us?

At that time, it's so hard to imagine Copenhagen 20 years ago.

It's nothing.

It's only 20 years ago, but it was such a different scene.

Most of Europe was predominantly French food.

There was a tiny bit of

Italian food around, of course, but mostly there were sort of the tretorias, the affordable places.

If you wanted something, the so-called fine dining, it was all French food.

And most foods were imported.

I had worked in a French restaurant.

I had traveled the world.

I worked in France myself.

I also worked in America, actually, at the French laundry in 2001.

I worked in Spain.

And when I came back, the question was very simple.

What else is around us?

And so we open with that promise to look into that, but never expecting it to turn into what it did, obviously.

And there was a very specific moment when I realized this was going to be something that I could

live my life in.

And when we opened in 2003, it was November 24th.

It was cold.

And we had by that time promised the world that we'd focus on our local terroir, as it's called.

It's a French term that expresses your local seasonality.

And,

you know, you realize, wow, what we have around us are cabbages and beets and so on and so forth.

And I would very quickly

find myself in search of ingredients.

I would be reading books that I'd never read before.

Usually I would read books about three Michelin star restaurants in France.

And suddenly I was reading army survival manuals

for the Nordics.

I would be reading.

foraging books or you know books that tells us what we have of foodstuff in the ocean And then the first spring, I would simply just go and start looking for all these ingredients.

And

in 2004, I think it's April or May, I'm on a beach north of Copenhagen, full of rocks, rotten seaweed everywhere, and a patch of green comes through.

I walk towards it instinctively, not knowing what it is.

I did a lot of stupid things back then, just tasting stuff.

And I snap these plants and they crackle like

it has a sound like when you cut into a watermelon you know that that sound like

and then i bite into it and it's the taste of coriander

and it was a moment i couldn't believe it i thought i was tasting something wrong it turns out that we have this plant growing indigenous indigenously in the Nordics.

It looks like seagrass

and it's thick and juicy and it has the same flavor compound as coriander or cilantro, I guess some people call it.

And so it was like a moment, a moment of discovery.

Can you imagine as a person that lives a life in flavor and you discover that under

right next to you?

And

that was truly the moment when I said, if we have coriander growing right there, what else do we have?

And it fueled this frantic discovery, search of discovery throughout our region that simply fueled our innovation, fueled our creativity, and very, very importantly, it grounded us.

And it grounded me.

You know, I was, and I guess I still am, but back then

I felt very much like,

you know,

I'm raised in Denmark,

but I didn't feel that Danish because of my family background.

They're actually Muslims.

I'm not a Muslim myself today, but my family are.

And it just grounded me.

I'm like, wow, this is where I am.

This is where I'll cook.

And these are my ingredients.

And I will now try to put it together in a way that challenges me, my team, and surprises our guests.

And that's when we also discovered the term which has become our philosophical guideline, which is time and place.

Another very simple phrase, but incredibly difficult to actually get to experience daily.

Where in the world are you?

What time of the year is it?

And for you to take in that moment as a guest is something we have to help through what we eat, through what we serve, and

how we serve you.

And the thing is, when you eat food, every day is a little different.

No day tastes the same.

Most people will know this when I give an example of strawberries.

You are at the market and you buy the strawberries, they're so good.

And you go the following Sunday and they're a little bit different.

And okay, that's just how it is.

That week they're different.

And but that when you're actually a cook, that changes your cooking.

You know that every day is a little different.

And so every day,

it's a new time and place.

And you have to make your guest take it in.

And it's hard having guests be ready to use their senses and just tap out.

That's actually why we have this 100-long meter pathway that you described early in the podcast.

Because I want people to, it's like a portal.

Forget about your phone for a little bit.

Can we just tap out?

And can you just be here right now and take in this moment?

We've been working and we've been working for 20 years for you to be here, you know?

So just

do us that one favor.

Just be here now.

But it's hard.

It's really, really, really hard for people.

I mean, it's actually crazy

how quick that whole technology side has changed how people dine out and how they experience food.

And I mean, I can remember the first time

a guest pulled up a camera phone.

and started recording me.

And back then, it was unheard of.

It was actually deeply rude at that time.

Yes.

Are you filming me?

And today,

that's just, you got to accept it.

You know, it happens all the time, but it takes away something.

And it's harder for everyone to kind of make people

take in the moment

of a soup, you know?

Yeah.

Because they need first the seven photos, and I take photos too, don't get me wrong, but yeah, there's just something

that we're losing, I think, unfortunately.

I agree.

I agree.

And you know, it's very much in it.

Well,

there's a similarity between the difference between theater and film.

Theater,

every night's different.

Every night it can go in any direction.

An audience member coughs and all of a sudden the focus of everything on stage changes.

You know, it's it's but it's but it's it's you're capturing something in that moment that will never never be the same again it's that moment which is kind of the exciting thing about theater

um i'd like to love to move on because i i don't want to keep you i know you've got a huge day ahead of you but omnivore um

yeah i'd love to talk about that and one of the things

What we've been describing, I think what you've been describing, and

maybe you say it in omnivore, is, and I'm going to butcher this, but I loved it, but how we choose to eat,

what and how we, you know, choose to eat will define how we will be able to live on this earth.

Am I close to what you said or something?

Yeah, no, it's it's the sentiment is definitely there.

But I think what we're trying to convey in a very positive and respectful and not in a judgmental way with a sort of a pointed finger to people is that food is the most important thing that we have.

And

if we learn to value it better, eat better, and make better choices when we buy stuff, we will be healthier and the earth will be healthier.

It's as simple as that, and also very difficult, of course.

So

that is at the core of Omnivore.

It's to fuel and ignite a curiosity about the stuff that we eat and

to

go home and look at your cup of coffee and think, huh, I wonder where this coffee is from.

Who's behind my coffee?

Yeah, actually, what family made this happen for me?

There are a lot of hands that are touching your coffee.

Literally, watching a hand or many hands pick those beans and realize and think about how many beans you put in your bean grinder, you know, to make your cup of coffee.

That's a lot of hand-picked beans.

It really hit home watching that.

And then it's so affordable as well.

You know, it's like

it's there's something

within the way we eat and the way we produce our food that

is going to change

and frankly needs to change, but it also will change.

And some things that we take for granted today will be much more expensive

and will probably be considered more

of a treat.

Let's say fantastic chocolate could be one of them or even a great cup of coffee could be something

that's going to come at a more expense.

But even

food might be

if we're going to change things, it might be more expensive to just eat.

But it might also make us healthier and the planet can breathe better and live better.

And there'll be something ethical about what it is you're eating because those people who made that possible for you will be getting paid perhaps a living wage as opposed to

the people who are picking the coffee a lot of times.

So many middlemen

make money that

I think

you did this also gently.

You never wagged your finger.

No, because I don't think it works.

No, No, I don't think it works.

And I'm frankly also very tired of it.

And we're all guilty of it.

We all, you know,

I'm sure I'm eating things a lot of times that are

Monsanto, you know,

run,

but I've eaten them.

You know, so shaking your finger,

you know, anyway, go on.

Yeah, no, of course you can't.

I mean, you can't.

Everyone has a there's a paradox to everything and everyone is a hypocrite, but but you still have to try the best you can.

And

I don't think shaming people or

telling someone, hey, what you've been doing up until now in your life, you're just an idiot or something like that.

As opposed to inspiring people to say, hey, there's also this way.

It's actually really something.

And it might really

make you feel better.

And if you are open to it, it might even make you a more curious person.

And curiosity is a very good thing to have, you know, because if you're curious about the world, you're more or you're an optimist at heart, I think.

And the end result of many of these choices will be that, hey,

in order for my cup of coffee to be cheap or my Snickers bar to be at the price point,

no lakes or no trees were harmed or no people were harmed in

this

transaction, you know?

And I mean,

yeah, so we're trying to inspire people and not shame people or make people fearful because I think they just zoom out.

Because I do it.

You know, if I'm seeing something online and it's yet another

kind of

call for the end of something.

And there is a lot to be fearful of, but we have to

be hopeful, very optimistic, because that energy is what we need.

Yes.

And the only way you can do it.

The other one,

the other energy

is just a spiral that draws you

into

not doing anything.

And you're sort of frozen.

Yeah.

I agree.

I mean, the way I love my friend, I'm sure Jane Fonda did not make this up, this phrase, but

you need to live with hope.

You need to.

But the way you get hope is by taking action.

And then

you'll do your best to make these things happen and you will have hope in your heart while you're doing it.

And it's a hell of a lot better way to live than in fear

and inactivity or being overwhelmed because you're right, then you get depressed and you quit.

Yeah, but don't get me wrong, I have fears too

often.

And,

you know, when you raise three young daughters and

you want them to grow up healthy and strong and in a world that's like, you know, ready for them to just take the most out of it.

So, yeah, I get fearful too.

But

I've been in those moments of heavy dread and where everything seems like, okay,

you know, it's a spiral of negativity.

But coming out of it and actually focusing on

the positive, on the hopefulness, on the energy, on change, and doing what you can and inspiring people, I found that to be incredibly

powerful.

This is a none of my business kind of question, but

you work so hard.

How do your daughters and your wife,

uh how

um how are they

how are they

well you know me and nadine we work together she's here daily

and uh the kids uh and the restaurant is kind of you know

almost a home as well right and my oldest daughter she definitely grew up at noma uh she used to serve quite a bit uh even when she was eight nine ten years old she would serve food and she'd spend every saturday with me at the restaurant.

My middle daughter as well.

My youngest daughter, not so much, but also because we have a different schedule today.

Today we're only open four days a week.

It was a little different back in the opening days.

So I have much more free time, actually, to

sort of be the best version of a father

and a husband.

But I can tell you that tomorrow, me and Adeen, we have a 19-year anniversary.

Oh, well done.

And

I still very deeply love her.

I really do.

And my kids are 10, 13, and almost 17.

So.

Yeah, that's not a bad place to end, but I do want to encourage people to go

to what is it, Apple TV and look at Omnivore.

It is so beautifully shot and so sensitive.

And

things I didn't even think about, you know,

are there.

And it's just really beautiful.

It's a lovely thing.

Are you going to do more of that?

Are you going to do more production?

We would love to.

At the end of the day, it depends.

I think there's like a three, four months period, and then they see if the numbers add up, if enough people watched it.

And if that's the case, then it's going to happen again.

But we already have...

the ideas for not just the next season, but the following season as well ready to go.

Well, if you need an older character actor to walk by in the background please i'm available or if you need woody harrelson to walk into wherever you are and do something wildly inappropriate and funny yeah it might take you up on both things just you know

i cannot tell you how happy i am that i got to um selfishly that i got to thank you and uh

and describe what it meant to me and to my wife to be in the midst of all that creativity and and love.

So thank you, Renee.

Really appreciate it.

No, thank you so much.

It means a lot.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for joining me for this bonus episode with Renee Redzepe.

His Apple TV Plus series is called Omnivore, and it is truly great.

I highly recommend that you watch it.

Hello to Woody.

I miss you, buddy.

And special thanks to our friends at Team Coco.

If you enjoyed this bonus episode, please send it to someone you love.

If you haven't already, please subscribe on your favorite podcast app and give us a great rating and review on Apple Podcasts.

We'll have more for you next week.

Everybody knows your name.

You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Dance and Woody Harrelson.

Sometimes.

The show is produced by me, Nick Leow.

Executive producers are Adam Sachs, Colin Anderson, Jeff Ross, and myself.

Sarah Fedorovich is our supervising producer.

Our senior producer is Matt Apodaka.

Engineering and Mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez.

Research by Alyssa Grault.

Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista.

Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Gen, Mary Steenbergen, and John Osborne.

Special thanks to Willie Navarre.

We'll have more for you next time where everybody knows your name.

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Hey, everybody, it's Paul Scheer, host of How Did This Get Made, a podcast that covers the best, worst movies.

This week, we're diving into the brand new War of the Worlds reboot, starring Ice Cube.

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Ice Cube is saving the world from aliens via his computer.

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