The Undisputed Champion Of Neck Tattoos w/ Cody Rhodes | 2 Bears, 1 Cave

What's up everybody?

It's Tom Segura.

We're almost into the new year and I'll be bringing my come together tour to a bunch of more cities in 2025.

January 18th, I'll be in Philadelphia.

I haven't been there in a while.

January 24th, San Francisco.

The 25th of January, I'm in Reno.

January 30th, I'm in Athens, Georgia.

And January 31st, Savannah.

February 1st, I'll be in North Charleston.

I can't wait to hit all these cities.

Get your tickets now at tomsegura.com/slash tour, and I will see you there 100

welcome to another episode of two bears one cave i'm tom he's burt and joining us today and we're we don't often get to say this but we're actually being joined by a world champion so please put your hands together for the one and only cody rhodes everybody

And then a huge announcement because the platform of Netflix just keeps expanding.

But for people who don't know, Raw is going to Netflix on January 6th.

And so far, sports on the

amount of things that they've done is pretty limited, but it's been a huge hit.

It's fucking huge, man.

So congrats.

Live sports on Netflix and

seeing Paul and Tyson and what they're doing at the NFL Christmas.

It's the direction it seems like Netflix is going.

I'm really excited that we've gotten in.

early on on it all and what raw looks like on netflix will be very different from what it looks like currently and in a way similar as well.

But I'm very excited about that.

You know, I was at the Paul Tyson fight, and if your guys could be anything like that, it'll be really electric.

What'd you think of it?

It was a dog shit fucking fight.

It was one of the worst things I've ever seen.

We were fourth row, like, this is going to be fucking amazing.

And that undercard was Serano Taylor, the women.

Oh, such a good fight.

Yeah, it was phenomenal.

And then that got us even more gassed up.

We're like, oh, shit, this is going to be fucking nuts.

And then we got in there and watched a light sparring match

that was like

what the fuck is this

it was crazy I know there was like all these conspiracy theories which is a natural thing that happens but one thing that I mean doesn't matter whether you're there or you watch it is like it was clear that neither guy pressed that and like you know when you watch boxing you see people set things up with jabs and then a jab usually at some moment creates an opening where you attack.

It's like the basic fundamentals of boxing.

And you would watch that happen.

You're like, ooh, like right here.

And then by the fifth round, you're like, I think they're just going to hang out.

Night sparring.

That's exactly what it looked like.

My only moments with Mike Tyson, and I will treasure this moment always.

He was a...

Gosh, I think he was just ringside for a match of mine.

He was presenting the championship after the match, but he saw other wrestlers backstage.

And he seemed very, and I don't want to say out of it because he was the sweetest, wonderful person.

It was very nice to talk to him, but he wasn't saying much.

And he just kind of seemed to be,

I guess, deering headlights a little bit.

And he's watching all these guys oil up and they're using the bands and they're pumping up and all that.

And he just looked at me, and I'm getting ready to go out.

I'm getting ready to go out.

And at the time, I was also in a management position.

So I'm directing something, some shot, something.

He looked at me and just said, do I need oil?

And

I, um,

those are those moments where it's like,

it's Mike Tyson.

Yeah.

I want this, I want this relationship to be good.

So I'm in my mind thinking,

what's he thinking?

Does he think he does need the oil?

Well, then I said, yeah,

sure, sure.

And then, so he took his shirt off.

So now Mike, Mike never had to have a shirt off for this.

Mike's standing there just looking at me with his shirt off.

And I remember he had like no belt on his jeans, too.

It's just a lot happening.

This is the greatest fighter, you know, potentially ever and someone I really, really like.

But he just took the bottle and kind of went like,

you do it.

To me.

and uh and he put a little on his hands and he puts them on his chest but then he turned around uh

sure

just

just oiled them up and uh and he you know he looked good and i've i've put oil on another wrestler before this wasn't the strangest thing but the weirdest thing was right after that he just threw his shirt right back on over it no and uh and i thought That's not the point.

What was the point?

You know, like,

are you pre, are you prepping for you take the shirt?

You know, a lot of wrestlers might think at this point, I'm going to rip my shirt or whatever, but you're not doing anything like that tonight.

And I do think he actually got his shirt off at one point, but yeah, I oiled him up.

I always felt good about that decision to oil up my shirt.

That might be the best story that's ever been told.

That's fucking fantastic.

Like, what kind of person would I have been to say,

no, Mike?

Bro,

I met him on a flight.

Yeah.

He was a fucking fan of yours.

Well, it was a peculiar evolution where I had straight up panic about approaching him because I was like, you know, I was listening to like old guys going, like, hey, Mike,

you remember 1980?

And he was like, yeah, like, just like, I was like, oh, don't be like, so I just worked up.

It was like, it took like, I actually thought of it as courage because I totally, I was like, don't bother him.

But then I was like, you're never, this will never happen.

Yeah.

And I gave him, I reached into my bag.

And at the time, I had one special out and I had a DVD and I gave it to him.

And I was like, I'm a comedian.

Yeah.

And then he was like, he was like, cool, like,

where are you going right now?

I was like, we're both going to Pittsburgh.

We're on a plane, you know?

So,

like, that's what we're doing.

And he was like, oh, like, where's your show?

And I was like, it's at the improv.

And he was like, where's that?

And I was like, I don't know, man.

That's wherever the Pittsburgh improv is.

Like, I don't know the geography of Pittsburgh.

And then he was like, oh, cool.

And then he gave me a fist bump and I was thrilled at the interaction.

I was like, I had a moment with Michael Tyson.

And then I sat down and I'm just like, I'm literally like my heart's racing, right?

Because

I felt like it took a lot just to say something.

I was like, also kind of scared because I didn't know if he was going to be like, bitch, leave me the fuck alone, right?

So I was like,

and then I just feel him, this hand grab my shoulder and he's standing above me.

He goes, yeah, I know who you are.

And I was like, what?

Wow.

And he holds the DVD.

He's like, this picture.

I was like, yeah.

That's the, I just gave that to you.

And so

I was like, and then he leans down in my my ear.

This is almost like your oil thing.

He leans down in my ear and I'm like,

what the fuck's he going to do?

And he leans down.

He goes, I've been watching a lot of Netflix.

That's it.

And then he stands up.

And I was like,

me too.

What a great.

And he goes, yeah.

So he goes, give me your number.

And I'm like, okay.

Yeah.

So I give him my number.

And I'm like, this is like we land and I just fucking like run off the plane because I just don't want anything to go wrong.

Yeah.

And then I'm like, well, that was that.

He's not, because so many, I've met so many celebrities who are like, give me, I'll give you a call or you can, we can do, we should do a thing together.

You're like, sure.

And so next day, phone rings.

It's Mike Tyson.

Wow.

He goes, we're coming to your show tonight.

And I go, okay.

So I call the club and I'm like, Mike Tyson's coming to the show.

And they're like, sure.

Like, they don't believe me.

And they're like, I'm like, okay.

So then I get to the club.

I'm in the green room.

There's like 100 people there.

So Thursday night, and they're like, manager comes in.

He's like, dude, Mike Tyson's here.

I was like, I know, dude.

I told you.

And then he fucking, I can hear him during the show hitting the tape.

He's hitting the table while he laughs.

Oh, you had him, man.

I had him for a second.

And then the show ends.

And he fucking, he grabs me.

He's like, let's go to the green room.

So he takes me to my green room.

And then he just starts smoking cigarettes.

And by his like fifth cigarette, he goes, he goes you got a window I go it's a little late for that

he goes you got one and I go no and he goes he goes that's when you'll know you've made it when you're when your green room's got a window

I just hung out for an hour wow and then yeah and I just asked him and I remember telling him I was like yeah you know it's crazy like watching you guys train like the training videos of those guys and I just stupidly I go you know like like Roy Jones Jr.

and he goes

yeah

I was like, Oh, yeah, why did I say him?

Still, he was like, I should say you

like watching you train.

That's like the hat trick of the celebrity heroic sports figure.

Everything went right.

It was incredible.

You got the number, you got wisdom.

Yeah, it was incredible.

And he told stories, and like, I would throw out names of boxers, and he would be like, That guy's a bitch.

And I was like, Oh, my gosh.

That's the dream.

I, I have one more actual Mike Tyson moment that I don't know why I have, I guess I've run into Mike on a couple occasions, but he got inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame.

He did?

He did, yeah, because he was a big part of WrestleMania in Boston with Steve Austin and Sean Michaels.

It's like the attitude era was coming into its own, and Mike was there.

He gives Sean this unbelievable right hook at the end.

It's just great stuff.

But he got inducted in the Hall of Fame and I was sitting with my wife.

And he started going on about my dad.

And my dad had a very large black fan base, very large.

And he was talking about how my dad was kind of the first black world champion, even though he was a white man from Austin, Texas, and all this.

And he was kind of, you know, he's obviously ribbing on the square here.

And he was talking about like black exploitation and just making these jokes.

These are jokes that as a white person, I feel like

I can't have a reaction to these.

I need to just, you know, but my wife is black.

So she's sitting next to me.

So they keep, every time he makes a joke, they kept shooting us.

And I was just like,

you know, like, like every time he made a joke and they'd pop on us.

I'm like, oh man, please, like, I would have been gone.

I would have left this thing earlier.

Oh my gosh, yeah.

Mike, man.

Mike's the best.

Yeah, he's incredible.

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Your dad was was the best your dad was the best where you're from you we were talking about your florida i saw him i saw your dad wrestle at the tampa armory oh my gosh fort hesterly yeah it was i mean your dad was the i mean i still i still go back and watch promos your dad did like you like they're just so the promo era of those guys is the best promo era like it's i mean it was so much more important than the match to talk people into the venue, to talk them to do that.

Actually, I'm so excited to see him this morning because

when I met Bert

doing Go Big Show season one, I think Bert and the whole Go Big Show production had a very different idea of what wrestling looks like in 2021 or whenever it was.

And it took a full season for them to kind of realize like, okay, Cody's a different type of performer.

You know, like there's a different, it's changed, it's evolved.

Because at first, I think he was really expecting like

Dusty.

Yeah.

Like, you know, like, they kept asking me, like, are you going to be in your gear at the judging seat?

I'm like, no.

You're not going to be old up.

Exactly.

Like, no oil, not in my gear.

It was one of those things, but it was fun because

I said this earlier: Bert is one of the most wrestlers.

He's one of the biggest pro wrestlers I've ever met who's not a pro wrestler.

You're not the first person to make that up.

Oh, my gosh.

Right out of meeting Bert.

And I don't know if I've ever told you this story, but it was amazing.

It was genuinely inspiring.

I met Bert.

They had this dinner, COVID production, one of the first productions that was happening during COVID.

We're all in this bubble, Rosario Dawson, Jennifer Nettles, Bert, Snoop Dogg, me.

We go to this dinner, and right away I met Bert, and he basically explained himself to me in three minutes as to

why he was amazing,

why he was famous.

There was a movie rights on his name, and

I thought,

dog, this guy out wrestled me yeah because that used to be a skill that every wrestler had the self-promotion yes and I mean if I so basically he made it so that if I didn't know him

there was going to be no discomfort because you know me now in our business he is known as the promo king oh my gosh I love that yeah and then I'm and I honestly I just took from your dad because your dad was was the best promo oh man and it's one of the reasons like when we hung out I was I remember telling you I was like because we we all went to dinner and then me and you kind of connected because you like whiskey, you like cigars,

and I like both those things.

Yeah.

And you like listening to me talk about myself.

Yeah, yeah.

And so, but I remember saying to you, I was like, yeah, I'm not really like, I don't really know much about wrestling.

And you're like, okay.

And then

in like 15 minutes later, you're like, hold on.

You're bringing up names that like only like a wrestling fan would know.

And I was like, well, everyone knows the Von Ericks.

And you're like, no, they don't.

And I was like, come on, the claw.

Do you remember when Ric Flair and Carrie Von?

And you're like, oh, Christmas Day, yeah.

That's one of the, that fucking match.

Yeah.

I have a weird question about Netflix.

How much bigger is this audience going to be than an average viewing audience?

Like when you guys do raw, that's it.

Well, it's tremendous potential.

It's going to, I mean, it's the potential because when we were, we were sitting there for that fight.

And two hours before,

there was a Netflix executive next to me.

So he's like, he goes, there's 30 million people right now on the service.

And then the next fight started, and he's like, it's 45 million people now.

And then right before the fight, he goes, we have a hundred million different subscribers.

That's just subscribers, like accounts on right now.

And then people were like, oh, you know,

the signal is all scrambled.

Like, people were buffering issues.

And it's like, well, yeah, you have 100 million subscribers watching.

This is going to be fucking huge.

Yeah.

I think

there's a lot of our library content, like our evergreen content, so much great wrestling history, Raw itself coming to Netflix.

It's always, so from the pro wrestler standpoint, I always go out there with the idea that they've never seen me before.

Yeah.

So I got to give them a little burt.

Yeah, you put it on the show, right?

I got to give them a little burt.

Like, I need them to know right out of the gate, okay, this is who he is.

This is what she does, whatever it may be.

And this is one of those cases where when the old timers and the producers and all the people we have backstage kind of are our wise men who help put the show together, when they say something like, hey, there's a lot lot of new eyeballs out there this will be one of those situations where it really is really truly truly is and you you have the chance to you know

to

hook them yeah and and i you know there's such a carny element to how pro wrestling used to be in terms of like reeling in a mark for something to watch.

Now the audience is so sophisticated, so changed, and you have new eyeballs.

We've never seen it.

You can't just hook them.

It can't be cheap.

They have to actually see someone authentically that they like yes and then hopefully they stay on board those kind of fascinating watching the uh i was watching the vince mcmahon dock and the watching the history like the evolution oh man and you know there was i mean there's a lot of aspects to it but just the fact how I didn't, you know, because I had no idea that it was everybody had territories and different markets.

Didn't cross.

For real?

And, oh, yeah.

And like, and you didn't cross territories.

And one of the things that they credit Vince with is being kind of brazen enough at one point to be like, fuck him, we're going to go do it in this guy's territory.

And then everyone's like, what are you like mob shit, basically?

So mob stuff genuinely.

Yeah.

This was your whole livelihood.

You know, my father, there's an individual in the wrestling space that I model, a lot of the character I have after today.

And most people don't know him because it was pre-cable, pre-even like closed circuits, Eddie Graham, who was in charge of championship wrestling from Florida, who was my dad's mentor.

And then my dad.

His son was Steve Graham?

No, Mike Graham.

Mike Graham.

Mike Graham.

I went to high school

with his daughter and his other son.

Yeah.

So the Graham family, he was in charge of that Florida territory.

Then there was Georgia.

Then, of course, in Texas, there was world-class.

Yeah, there's Eddie Graham right there.

Yeah, no, he was really ahead of his time.

And one of the things that was special about Eddie Graham is he was really big on community activation.

Like I mentioned, you have to be authentic.

You can't just be reel them in in the old-fashioned way.

They have to.

He spent all this time at the Boys and Girls Club.

He was big on going everywhere.

That's why it was in the armory in the first place.

You know, like he was big on just a pros pro was Eddie Graham, but he ran Florida.

Vince's father, Vince Sr., ran Washington, D.C.

and in New York, and then you had in Texas, multiple territories, AWA.

I mean, they didn't cross.

And if they crossed, there was a problem.

And they had,

there's a picture that really feels mafia.

It really, like, maybe that's silly if you know anything of the mafia, or I don't, but there's a picture of them at the nwa convention in las vegas all black and white all these wrestlers you see andre in the back you very unique body types and decision they're all just facing the camera that's where they would vote on the world champion because the nwa world champion would go from territory to territory but other things would not cross yeah and and uh vince jr vince mcmahon was the first one to say hey i'm I'm making the move.

Now, you mentioned Lamon Ericss.

Somebody else was going to do it.

It wasn't a a matter of somebody else was going to do it.

He just beat them to the punch.

He beat them to the punch, and then everything changed, you know, because closed circuit became pay-per-view, and the next thing you know, off and running.

I want to ask you this because, like, I'm always fascinated by, you know, boys growing up with

regardless of if someone's dad is an athlete, usually boys either go, I want to be just like my dad, or I don't want to be anything like my dad, right?

Like, and when you get to athletes, like, obviously, there's children of athletes who go, I want to do that.

Like, let's say in like the NFL.

Yeah.

And, you know, there's some that do, and then there's some that you're like, you just can't do it.

You're not an NFL player, right?

Or NBA.

In wrestling, like, as a kid,

were you,

I want to be a wrestler, like as a young kid, or were you kind of like, yeah, you know, it's just what my dad does.

whatever.

So he brought me to a show when I was really young, and he was an older dad.

He was 39 when he had me.

He was an executive producer.

He was behind the scenes.

It was a wrestling booker.

He was helping the creative.

So he wasn't in his full prime.

But I remember when he brought me to that show, it was UTC Chattanooga.

It's a building WWE still runs to this day.

And it was Brad Armstrong.

This guy hit an arm drag.

And just to hear the reaction and the women screaming out of their mind, it was one of those, I always tell people I have no interest in the inside behind the scenes of wrestling because I lived it.

I like to be out.

I like to be out there in the crowd.

That's what that narrative is what I enjoy.

After that, there was nothing I wanted to do more.

And you let it be known.

Oh my gosh.

I mean, nothing.

And

was he like, great, or was it like, you got like a long way to go, kid?

Like, you're going to have to.

I needed to earn, so I needed to earn his trust because so many second generations and third generations in the pro wrestling sports entertainment space, they burn out, they turn out bad.

I needed to earn his trust.

And what I thought I could earn his trust with was actual folk style wrestling.

Greco-Roman, freestyle, all that.

Because he had never done that.

He was straight up promo, entertainment, great athlete, but he had never been on the map before.

He didn't even know how it was scored.

He would come to my tournaments as a kid and I'd see him for a takedown, hold up, like, but then it would be a two-point.

He didn't know.

He didn't know.

And I was obsessed with it.

Full-blown Vision Quest, if you've ever seen that movie, just I dug in.

I did summer camps with Ken Sheritow, Gramby VHS tapes I'd watch.

I've made it my whole life.

Loved it.

Loved it.

And once I ended up winning a state championship as a junior and I had gone undefeated and I'd gone on team nationals and made my way around.

Once that happened, I think whatever I told him I wanted to do, he was good with it.

He was good.

He was good.

I didn't have a curfew anymore.

My sister still complains about it to this day.

Yeah.

Like senior year, they just, he's fine.

Where is he?

He's been gone for three days.

He's fine, you know?

But so you have

the place we shot go big.

Yeah.

We walked in.

We walked in.

He's like, well, I haven't been here since I was in high school.

I was like, what?

He's like, yeah, one state in this building.

Twice.

Yeah.

And that building,

it's the Macon Centriplex, the Macon Coliseum.

Yeah.

There was a little electrical closet that was right by where we'd all sit.

Bert would be up on stage.

We'd be all sitting in the chairs.

And I went in there and I cried my eyes out when I was 16 years old because I had won that tournament.

Yeah.

Took like everything I could possibly muster to do it.

And then I would just walk by it randomly doing that show with us.

And it was just a surreal moment.

You want to know something wild?

hit me so we were doing we were i remember when that first season i was trying to sell red rocks and i was doing red rocks promoting oh yeah stop yeah and i remember you going how big is this place i go i have no idea

last year i did that coliseum nice i performed in it and i walked in i didn't realize i was in macon i didn't realize what i was doing and i walked in and i went shut the up i was like i was like how the yeah did i get here and it was so funny because i thought of you because i remember you walking in going yeah shut the up yeah That's a special little building.

Yeah.

I mean, that is a home to us.

Because we were quarantined.

I remember this.

And you can only really, like, me and him hung out.

We hung out with our EP.

We had kind of just started

with Conrad.

Yeah.

We just kind of started doing this podcast.

Yeah.

And you're like, I'm going to do this thing.

And I was like, what the fuck is that?

I remember telling you, I was like, I'm going to meet Snoop.

I need advice on how to meet Snoop.

Oh, yeah.

And you're like, be yourself.

At that meeting, whatever.

Don't start with like, what it is, cuz.

Yeah, I don't think think that would go away.

When we had dinner at that one dinner with everyone's at, that he, when I explained myself to Cody, I think I did the same thing to Snoop, and he was caught off guard by me.

Sure, and he just went like this in the middle of it.

He hit this and he turns the phone around, and it's Red Grant.

He goes, You know, this guy, and Red turns it back, and Red goes, He's cool.

And he goes, All right, and he's like, All right, cool.

Oh, wow!

Yeah,

you called the right black guy

when I uh, when I see Bert, like Bert, my algorithm is all over Bert.

You, Bert, Tony,

all these things that have come from Bert's world and my interaction with Bert.

Whenever I see all this popping off,

I'm so glad I get to sit with you today because I never got the chance to tell him.

Bert was the spiritual and unofficial leader of that show and was so good.

to all of us.

We were trapped in this Marriott, connected to the Making Coliseum.

I had the biggest imposter syndrome ever it's burt who's talking about selling out red rocks snoop dog rosario dawson who's getting ready to play ahsoka like is already in oh she told us that our first night and i'm this big dave filoni fan so i know all this stuff i remember my wife telling me like you do not you do not ask me about this show you do not all right i won't i won't jennifer nettles who at a moment's notice could belt out a song that would just make you cry she did it we were oh my gosh the fucking you know the song from shrek the one uh the one uh it's the, the, she did it one time, we're in line.

Yeah.

And I was, I was like, Jen, I can sing.

And she was like, really?

And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Listen, I started doing it.

And then she started singing over me.

And I just went like this.

She is so, like, I'll tell you, man.

She's so you to be able to go to the singer and be like, I can sing.

Oh, bro.

He quarterbacked everything.

Do you remember when I shot the bullseye with the fucking bow and arrow?

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, that was like my highlight.

I go, I think I can shoot.

Snoop's like, I'm not getting shot.

And I fucking pulled off a bullseye.

If there was ever a show where the sharpshooters weren't sharpshooters, though, it was Go Big Show.

They'd have us sit up there and watch these guys,

whether it was guns and they were shooting targets or whether it was arrows.

And I thought, is this a bit?

Yeah.

Like, dude, and then as a terrible.

And then Bert would come to us for like, so what'd you think?

I'm like, well,

you missed.

Yeah,

you missed most of the shots.

And they're mad.

Because this was like COVID times.

We all need to be really happy.

And Snoop had asked, like, it's not going to be a mean judge.

We're going to be all happy.

But at a certain point, like, you're like, you're not good at this.

Yeah, how do you think you did, man?

Yeah,

oh no, but I wanted to thank you because you were the unofficial leader to it, and you were super sweet to me.

And uh, well, you and I were the closest, me, you, and Conrad, yeah, and I would have a glass of wine.

You know, it's funny, we have uh, we have something uh from the show.

Oh, fuck off.

I know exactly what this is.

What is it?

I know exactly what this is just for Cody,

they messed my my name up.

Me and Snoop.

Oh, man.

I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry.

I think he started doing it.

What's that guy's name?

I know that guy.

I can't accept any now.

Oh, wait.

Draw that back for him.

There.

Hold on.

Listen to this.

987 Central on TVS.

Bruce Kreiser.

Kreiser.

Well,

that was Chris Jericho who said it.

That was Chris who said it wrong.

Purposely?

I want to say at that point it had become a bit, perhaps, at that point but also um

and this is not to

gosh this is not to bury what i was doing at the time and where i was but

discovery now or i guess at the time it was warner media sent me to do that show to help with the other show and i was honored to do it and excited to be picked but It's wrestling has a bad habit, and this is in all companies everywhere, of not understanding we're in a bubble, guys.

There's a whole outside world.

Yeah.

There's multiple mediums of entertainment.

Don't be in a bubble.

Like,

don't be afraid to do a little crossover thing.

Yeah, pure hardcore wrestling fans, they may not love it, but there's something on the show that's for them already.

And that, that was, you know, I hate, I'm not bearing where I formerly was, but not understanding like

the power, the magnitude, again, of new eyeballs and of crossing over.

And also, I hate

gatekeeping when it comes to what we do.

That's one of the things I do really like about pro wrestling fans and sports entertainment.

And I wish the locker rooms would feel this more.

We welcome, please, if you've never been before, because I know, Tom, you're not a big wrestling fan.

This isn't true.

I don't know where you've heard this.

So

there's some quotes out there.

No, I don't know what you're talking about.

But

I would say to you, is like, hey, if you ever dip your toe in, and this is not a show for WrestleMania 41, it could be WrestleMania 42, it could be WrestleMania 45.

Come to it.

Come.

And if there's not something that you're like, ah, all right.

No,

I get it.

I actually feel like, I mean, I've look, I've said reckless things in my life, but I do feel like I already know that I would have a good time.

I think I experienced the same thing when I went to NASCAR.

Oh, yeah.

I don't want to go to fucking NASCAR.

And I went to NASCAR.

I was like, this is amazing.

Right.

Yeah, I had a great time at it.

And I've, I've watched, you know,

maybe not a lot of.

of matches, but like, like I said, I've watched multiple docs.

And like, I also get the fact that I used to think they're so different.

But what I'm saying is like when it comes to wrestling and like sports entertainment, it's really not

at its core that different from traditional sports.

In other words, you know, going to a NFL game, it's like you got into this as a kid, probably, and you're watching

the rules that are established and people like participating in it, and you cheer or you boo and you just get, you get emotionally involved.

And then in wrestling, for me, it's just like, yeah, it's athletes, they're performing, and usually there's a foundation from usually from being a kid.

Yeah, and you get an emote, you're emotionally invested.

It's kind of

a similar thing.

When I was a kid, when I was a kid, we'd go, I think, I was just about every Saturday night.

And the noise, I remember just the noise of when someone hits the mat, just the noise was so visceral.

And the energy, you get caught up in it, old ladies telling people the garbage.

And you just get so, it's like, it really is like, I want to go so bad.

I kind of want to go to Raw.

Where's Raw going to be shot?

Intuitome.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

In L.A.?

Yeah.

You got to come.

Hold on.

Have you been to the Intuit Dome?

No.

It's fucking insane.

You don't even have tickets.

They scan your face.

Yeah, they also have the.

You don't have money.

They don't pay with money.

You pay with your eyes.

You go like this, and then it goes.

It's in a very advanced place.

So they have every seat.

Where in LA is this?

It's right next to

all in that YouTube area.

Like downtown area?

No, no, no, no, no.

It's by

SoFi.

Oh, like Carson.

By all that.

Oh, my God.

Oh, my God.

Wait, what's it normally used for?

Clippers.

Oh, it's the Clippers play.

Yeah, we saw Billy Joel play there.

Every seat, you know, can measure the audio.

So we have this one moment

throughout the show where when I come out, I don't know how it caught on, but there's a part of my song that everybody sings the same.

It's just when the dude yells, whoa, they all yell, whoa.

And they pop off a bunch of pyro, but they're very excited about this.

They're like, well, if you're on that show, if we format it this way, we might be able to tell who is the loudest.

And pinpoint them and all that.

And I thought, that's a wild,

insane amount of technology.

You're going to need to go to that, go to Raw.

For sure.

Let's go.

Let's bring the boys.

You have two boys, right?

Yeah.

How old?

Six and nine.

Six and nine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My daughter is only three and a half, and I'm struggling with how to explain it to her because my dad didn't explain it to me.

He was just like, check this shit out.

Well, no, I mean, he, so

here's a term, you know, you'll hear people say the term Kfabe.

And

so he just figured it was best for me to always believe.

And, you know, for example, the four horsemen broke his, he broke his arm, but they also broke his leg at one point in the cage.

I remember finding a cast and he had this giant closet.

And it was a big cast like I had when I broke my leg on my four-wheeler, except it had hinges and it opened up.

And I thought, oh,

I want that cast next time.

Not realizing

that this was something that might have gone on for the public and might have gone off.

But yeah, he never,

I guess the way we put it, he raised me very old school, which I wouldn't recommend.

Yeah.

Because I'd meet people like Ric Flair and I'd meet these Arne Anderson, these nefarious enemies of his and kind of having.

like a disdain for them already not understanding these were your partners these are people you were making money with and selling tickets wait until which age were you sadly 27?

You ready?

You ready?

I was 14.

Before you kind of like...

So there's two big incidents.

Wait, so he doesn't come down the chimney and leave stuff.

So, right, right.

So

I was 14, and I think part of the reason it took so long is because I wanted the magic.

Yeah, for sure.

So there's two incidents.

One, I'm watching DDP wrestle Hacksaw Jim Duggan.

They're on the show in Daytona, and they're out in the ring earlier in the middle of the day, like three o'clock.

Yeah.

And that's not something you see that often.

A lot of people think like wrestlers are out there practicing.

It's not as you don't see that that often, but they're out there and they're just going over stuff and they're in the middle of this heated rivalry.

I remember watching it and I thought, okay, I'm accepting of it at this point.

I go, okay, if that happens,

then I'll know.

And of course,

DDP's in the corner.

Here comes Hacksaw, big boot.

I'd seen it already.

I thought, oh, that might be it.

Did it emotionally affect you?

No, no, because there was a prior event where the toughest men, like the toughest person in all of wrestling was this guy named Haku.

I don't know if you ever heard about Haku or Flair told you any stories about Haku.

Yeah, he's a big fish situation where a lot of the stories you hear are like, no way, that's true.

He didn't take that cop's eyeball.

And then you'll find out like later, like, no, he did.

He was all those things.

Well, Haku slammed a wooden chair over my dad's head.

And my dad is bleeding and he's in the ring and, you know, people are crying.

And he had this deep connection with the audience.

They're deeply affected by it.

And I was just a young kid at the time.

And obviously, obviously, you when you pick a fight you're not winning yeah yeah but I'm of the thought like I'm raised like in hey we still gonna fight though right I'm not saying I'm winning this fight but we're still gonna fight and he came back to the locker room and I was sitting next to my dad my dad's bleeding and I remember I stood up I don't know what my my game plan was but I stood up and my dad like

swiftly knocked me back down in my seat and then Haku who happened to be one of the most gentle sweetest human beings in all of wrestling came over to my dad he shook his hand hand, he kissed his hand, he helped him take his leg wraps off because my dad was a lot older at the time and just said, He loves, I love you.

And then he left.

And again, I'm thinking, Well, that should have been the moment.

I know, clearly.

And all my dad said to me was, The rules are a little different back here.

We can't fight back here, but out there.

So he really wanted to keep you going.

So he's kept.

So, but in that moment, I should have known, like, all right, you know, but also, I'll say this: your level of belief in this, I don't know if anyone tells you this, but it's adorable.

Okay, well, yeah, yeah.

Well, I wanted it to be, Yeah.

You know, like,

I wanted it because I grew up on it.

I got into fights over it.

That was a big thing in elementary school.

If a kid says it's fake, tell them, hey, it's not fake.

If a kid says it's fake again, say, hey, one more time, I'm warning you.

If he says it's fake a third time, you punch him, and it was always punch him in the nose.

So that's terrible.

That's terrible advice to give a kid.

You punch a kid in the nose, you could break their nose, could jack their face up.

So multiple, hey, Cody got into another fight today.

Hey, Cody got into another fight.

My elementary school hated me, hated my dad.

We were like the Adams family.

That was one he could have at at least been like, hey, because I remember he told me as a young kid, he said, Hey, you can tell them that I'm a salesman if you want to.

And I thought,

absolutely not.

No fucking way.

I refuse to say you are a salesman.

My dad's fucking Dusty Rose.

Yeah.

What are you talking about?

But now I'm in the space where she's three and a half, Liberty, my daughter, where I do want to say to her, hey, just let him know I'm a salesman.

Let him, you know, like, just because I don't want her to get caught up in any of that.

Cause she's already, I've seen her watch a few things.

I've always wanted to ask this, though, because like you mentioned like Tyson and his participation, and you have people come in that are like not background wrestlers, like a Mark Henry or like a Brock Lesnar or somebody, right?

And so when they come in and they get what the world is and that there's a lot of, it's obviously super athletic.

Yeah.

There's a lot of performance.

And obviously, like, we all know that people get seriously, seriously hurt.

And there's tons of people have had serious injuries and tons of surgeries and stuff but do you have you know moments with these guys where you're like hey like don't fucking flip a switch and like do you do you have to like

spend more time with someone like that who's coming from you know mma or like mic with boxing or do they just kind of get it out of the gate well i'd rather in my my case i'd rather you come fully like come and bring it bring it because we can't afford it not looking good on tv right we don't have time to train you up in this moment.

So if you're outside coming in, swing for the fences is a big quote I always say that I afterwards be like, regret that.

Regret saying swing for the fences.

But when it Brock's a great example,

it's very hard for me when I'll never say wrestling is fake.

The F word, I get really weird about it, and I don't know why, but I always say to people, hey, this reason I don't say it is because if you look at that dad and his son or the family over there, their feelings are real.

So I I don't need to say this is, but I can tell you, if people ever wonder how real wrestling can be, the three matches I had with Brock Lesnar are the most competitive.

And there's a thing when you work with a guy who's a big monster.

He's a monster.

Where they make you earn it is what they'll say.

You're not just grabbing my leg, even though that might be the spot.

You're not just hitting me with that, the Cody cutter.

It's not just happening that way.

You have to actually earn it.

And earn it is as close to it being in a real fight as I've ever been in my life.

I look back at the three matches with the Brock lovingly and so proud of the body of work we put up.

But also I remember

scared is probably an appropriate term, but just that was the most aggressive, and I've been in fights and I wrestled folk style, freestyle, did all that.

That was the most real anything had ever been for me in the ring.

And it actually gave me a whole new education on getting, i guess to the top of our game what it really means is there is an element of you're not just taking this yeah like you this is going to be a bit of a struggle because that man is a freak athlete and there's a lot mark henry on the other hand mark henry because he came through our developmental and trained and all that he's a lot like the big show i don't know if you've ever met big show paul yeah they they always had to be really really

gentle Because if they're so strong, if they effed you up,

you can't be that guy, right?

They had to be the most and uh big show for one

animal yeah no no i mean do you ever heard the story about him at the uh strongman uh tough man it might have been the arnold where he was on stage presenting that's mark and show together yeah and there was the world's heaviest dumbbell which it's all it's a bit nobody can lift it nobody can lift it i don't even know how much it is but mark lifted it which people were reacting to already and he dropped it off the stage and it was like this kind of calamity he went down and picked it up and brought it back up and put it back in the thing not even thinking it all worked out like as if it had been planned.

Mark was genuinely the world's strongest man.

They say, had he even trained a little bit harder, his records would have been untouched to this day.

His son is got a preliminary contract with us, Jacob.

Really?

Yes, Jacob.

I remember when Mark was a junior Olympic lifter.

Yeah.

And he wasn't even on a proper meal plan.

And so this

high-level coach was like, what the fuck are you eating?

Like, and brought him in and was like, no, no, you got to be like, you have, you, as a heavyweight, need to be eating this much protein and all, and, like, was just

getting him to do that properly because he didn't even, he didn't have any idea.

He was just raw dogging it all.

Like, so I got a good, I love Mark Henry.

He's still part of this radio show called Busted Open.

His son, Jacob, who is going to come up and probably Brock Lesnar, us all when he does arrive.

We're all looking forward to it.

But I have a fun moment with Mark where I was in a tag match in Cape Girardo at what's called the Show Me Center, and it was a six-man, and I'm in there and Triple H, and I think MVP are Mark's partners, but Triple H is really leading this match.

Crowd wasn't great.

It's one of those where the crowd wasn't great.

There's daylight coming in the arena.

We've never experienced that before.

It's like a Madden A show.

Daylight's coming in the arena.

And it's the only time I've ever seen it.

And God bless.

I learned a lot from Mark, and I hope he doesn't get mad at me for sharing this, but I watched Mark on the apron fall asleep.

I watched, as we're in the middle of bumping all this stuff, and we're the bad guys, right?

We're the bad guys.

And I remember watching Mark just slowly

take a nap.

And then he come back, he came back to life.

He came back to life.

And when we eventually tagged him, there was not this, we'd like to call it the hot tag.

Could be the most exciting 15 seconds of the night.

There was not this big response.

It's not this big reaction.

I remember Triple H, who's, you know, now our chief creative officer, just screaming at Mark, like, come on, Mark.

This is the coldest tag I've ever.

They're having this conversation.

And I just, I couldn't believe it.

But we used to joke because Mark had 3-6 mafia sing a song.

It was like, beat him up, break his neck.

And we would just add terms to it, like, beat him up, break his neck, get sweaty, take a nap.

Because I saw him do it on the apron.

I never forgot it.

He's great, though.

Mark is great.

With someone like him, though, I mean, obviously, you know it intellectually, but you can also physically sense the level of strength someone like that has when you're in a match with them.

With Mark,

with Mark for sure, Mark was always really pros pro.

I'll say with Big Show, I felt it the most because I pissed him off one night.

And I pissed him off one night, and he did what's called the big man kick out, where you like cover him, and then the guy goes flying.

Ha ha.

But he...

put it all behind it.

And I remember I like hit the rope.

It didn't even look clean.

So he basically shot me up a good four feet, dead, cold press, nothing underneath him.

Shot me up four feet.

And then I went to the corner to take the big chops, these big, like soup bowls, and they were overhand.

And I had my chin duck just a little bit.

And he hit me here and

just

lights out, drooling all myself.

For real?

Yeah, came to pretty quick.

And I don't think he did that one on purpose.

I think that was more my this, because I learned so much from Big Show.

But the one time he ever needed to let me know, hey, I'll kill you.

He did let me know.

And I was probably, I'm positive at that point.

Young, green, positive I deserved it and super helpful.

That stuff actually, in an odd way, is like, oh, okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you for this bizarre lesson.

But yeah, thank you.

Now, very few people can find employment after a neck tattoo.

When did you decide to do it?

Oh, I love it.

By the way, this is one of my favorite stories.

Yeah.

We're sitting there and I said something about his neck tattoo.

And he goes,

Yeah, it was a little bigger than I thought it said.

The logo was already the American Nightmare logo I already had.

So I was never about the art.

It was never about the look.

And

I went through this phase where

I was away from WWE at the time.

I was trying to really build my own brand and be my own thing.

I was tired of wearing other people's logos.

I hated going into dicks and there's the, you know, Rocks logo everywhere.

I was like, I want to make my own thing.

Yeah.

I want to be as bold as making, I'm going to really, I'm going all in on my own thing.

So I had

this idea that I would put it on my chest.

And then I saw Conor McGregor, who was just absolutely, you know, box office hit marquee guy.

He had a big, the big lion on his chest.

Like, oh, I can't, well, I can't do the chest.

Then I, of course, think about The Rock, who's the biggest marquee guy, and, you know,

my current boss as well.

And he's got the Brahma bull before all the Samoan tattoo.

It was just a Brahma bull.

I thought, well, I can't do the arm.

That's, you know, Goldberg, too, with the barbed wire.

I thought, hmm, I'll do the neck.

I'll do the neck.

And I did, he showed it to me.

And

it was smaller.

Yeah.

And I thought, that's perfect.

It'll peek right over the collar.

I'm always in suits.

That's perfect.

And I love this guy.

He still helps, like, he'll dial it up and fix it every now and then when it needs to be.

But

I did the dumbest, most alpha toxic thing ever is I sat there in the chair and he kept giving me an out.

He goes, you want to take a look?

You want to take a look?

I mean, kept giving me an an out.

You want to take a look?

And I know I'm good.

You know, I'm like gritting my teeth.

I don't know who I was trying to impress.

So no one there.

My wife's not there.

Like, I'm good, you know?

And then I got up and they're filming this.

They're documenting this whole thing.

I got up and I saw it.

And I didn't say anything in the moment, but it's like a kid on Christmas who the gift was not,

you know, it's not the right Power Ranger, basically.

You know, and I thought, well.

Thank you.

I think the first thing I said was thank you, shook hands, and then headed for the door.

And I had to wrestle the next night.

So I had a signing that morning where I wrapped it in a scarf because they wanted me to do it fresh right away or take months and let it heal.

So I wrestled the next night.

So I'm at this signing with a scarf around.

It's all coming up over the scarf.

There are people clearly who know something's up.

I remember Jim Ross, legendary Hall of Fame announcer.

Yeah.

He thought it wasn't real.

Big Oklahoma.

Yeah, Oklahoma.

Yeah, he thought it wasn't real.

I walked into the production meeting, and at the time, I'm reading the production meeting.

I'm the boss at the end.

I remember him,

hold up.

He couldn't believe it.

Like,

he couldn't fathom that this giant thing now existed.

But I tell people,

I guess in the long run, it was really worth it.

It's kind of rad.

I mean, here's the thing.

I think for your job, it's rad.

And if I didn't know who you were, I'd be like, this guy did 20 years, you know, locked up.

Like, he was

a dangerous individual.

Let me ask.

I had,

I had like another, I had two dreams growing up, and this is so stupid.

Forgive me.

To do time in prison.

20 years.

I wanted to be a wrestler.

And then I really wanted to be the governor of Georgia.

That was like, I grew up in Georgia.

I love my state.

You wanted to be the governor?

I wanted to be the governor.

But hang on, hang on.

I have plans on being the governor of Florida.

That you could do it.

I met Arnold Schwarzenegger.

I was like, I'm going to be the governor of Florida.

And

I literally was like, this is a real dream.

I could be a politician.

This could be real.

Especially, we'd be like, you'd be governor of Georgia.

I'd be governor of Florida.

We'd be right next to each other.

Oh, just

buddy governors, you know?

He comes up with stuff like this a lot.

But my, my,

that's inspiring, though, because if you watch the Arnold doc, I think a lot of people are like, oh, he said he could do it.

That mountaintop, that whole thing he goes into about, I see another mountain and I have to climb it.

But that, I've thought a little bit about it later in my life, about the tattoo.

And I thought, I don't know if everyone would understand that tattoo.

I think at a glance, no.

But once, like, as a, if you were running for something like governor, the thing about it is your story gets out.

So you become, actually, you'd become the person who opens doors for throat tattoo people.

Oh, my gosh.

They would be like, ever since he became governor,

I got, yeah, I got hired by a tech company.

And

people stopped shutting the doors in our faces.

Yeah, you'd be like, I want the state of Florida tattooed right here.

Oh, my gosh.

Little in green.

A drop, but it's the Florida ally.

There is no reason you shouldn't do that today.

Dude, I have a tattoo gun at my my house.

I've been tattooing people all the time.

Tattoo.

Tattoos.

Tattoo?

He does that.

Tattoo.

All you have to do is choose to say something differently.

Yeah.

Like aluminium.

Yeah, aluminum.

Yeah.

There it is.

And then Nightmare.

No, Nightmare is.

Nightmare is like.

I assume that was purposeful because I was going to screw Joe.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Nightmare is how I thought it was.

And then now I can't change it back.

Did you see American Nightmare, by the way?

Yeah.

The dock.

Oh, so crazy.

It's unbelievable.

So I like it.

So from a true crime doc perspective, nothing annoys me more than, okay, he probably did it.

And then three episodes in, they're like, yeah, he did it.

I need a spin.

Yeah.

I need something.

And American Nightmare, that doc, oh my gosh.

Well, I don't want to spoil it for everybody.

Let's spoil it.

Fuck him.

So at the end

of, because I always get on this is like.

Whether or not people always argue about, you know, is there such thing as normal?

And you're like, yes, of course there is.

And there's a spectrum of normal behavior if you're somebody whose uh girlfriend was just kidnapped yeah and the way he is in that interrogation room you're like this is fucking completely abnormal sure the way he's talking yeah so it leads you to go like yeah something this is fucked up he's the problem and then episode two yeah when they feature the girl Her behavior and her interview, you're like, this is, what did they do?

Yeah, they created

to learn where it goes.

Yeah, it is the biggest mind fuck of a, yeah, it's a fantastic doc.

dock if you haven't seen it that we just ruined for you.

Well, I mean,

you haven't really ruined it because it's such an abnormal, crazy thing they're claiming.

Yeah, it's abnormal.

It is.

And then to get to the finish and be like, wait, hold up, rewind.

That's.

Did you watch the Lacey Peterson one?

I did, yeah.

Every true crime doc.

They say he didn't do it.

Yeah, his sister.

Yeah.

Every true crime, every true crime doc.

Best is like, I mean, this guy, I mean, a full-fledged textbook psychopath.

And

she's missing on Christmas Day.

And they have, they play on the dock, they play the interrogation footage or the questioning footage of that day where he's at the police station.

And they're like, so you're, your pregnant wife's missing.

He's like, yeah,

yeah.

Anyway,

yeah, I went fishing, and

I definitely hope you guys get her.

Hope you find her.

And you're like, this is right away, they're like,

I feel like the biggest red flag is like, I went fishing, here's my slip, his boat slip, like right away providing an alibi and like, oh my gosh,

Hey, look, guys, the most peculiar behavior ever.

Can I tell you what is so enjoyable?

Because when we met, when we first met, it was right when you were coming after wrestling.

And you were like, so what's Tom like you?

I remember you asked me.

Yeah, yeah.

And I was like, and then as I go into your green room

or your trailer, I started going like, God, you know, he really reminds me of Tom.

Like you, and to watch you two connect, because you guys could be really good friends.

You're both, interestingly enough, and I mean this with all respect, you are silly boys with silly jobs that are very serious men.

Like you're both real men.

Somebody has to take it seriously.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like you're a comedian and you're a professional wrestler, but you guys like take life seriously and you work hard and you're businessmen and you take what is

like I'm a silly guy in a silly job and I've stayed silly.

I have a hard time growing up.

But

I remember watching you one time taking meetings.

I think you were running AEW at the time and you were taking meetings And I remember going like, I would, if I was a pro wrestler, I'd never run the fucking company.

I'd be like, just give me the most amount of money and the least amount of work.

But that's Tom.

It's like, I go, I go, let's do a podcast.

And he's like, let's start a company.

I go, you start a company.

I'm fucking.

I'll do the podcast.

I have an empire, but I just want, do I get free?

True classic shirts?

But it's interesting to watch you two connect.

I've never seen Tom this interested in a person ever that we've ever interviewed.

We have big goals, right?

In terms of, I feel like, and I could be wrong, I joke all the time.

Maddie, who you saw, who had my phone a minute ago, he does social media for me.

He is my age, but I pretend he's Gen X, Gen Z.

Yeah, I'd be like, why'd you wake up at 2 p.m.

today?

Yeah.

Get your hoodie on.

He's your Bobby Lee.

I give all these people at WWE because they surrounded me with a really nice team when I came back.

I mean, really, this person's your point person here.

This point, you have to go here.

They're going to be with you.

All of them, I treat them like they're Gen Z, Gen X, and they're not at all.

But just see it, I I feel like in this generation, there's a shame that comes to effort.

I know that sounds crazy, but you'll see wrestlers get jacked out of their mind and not like gassed up.

They're not just in great shape, and no one is complimenting them.

No one is, it's not a thing anymore.

Well, that's a big thing now, that anybody who is fit, everyone goes, yeah, it'd be nice if I fucking stabbed 12 needles in my life.

Right, yeah,

we call it effort shaming.

Yeah.

You know, like if you come to WWE, there's a girl named Chelsea Green.

She just won the first ever woman's U.S.

title.

She is somebody who, everything you ever give her, she makes the most of it, makes the most of it.

And it seems like the generation that's coming, and I could be totally wrong, this could just be old man speak, doesn't seem like they have that mindset.

But I always went into it thinking the biggest I could possibly be.

I met a guy who was, this was during my time away from WWE when I left, who I remember him saying to me and my wife in the car, because he was running his own promotion.

He said, I don't know why everybody thinks so big.

And in my mind, I'm like connecting with Brandy on a telepathic level.

Like, this guy sucks.

Yeah.

Like, why wouldn't we think big?

It doesn't mean we're going to hit big.

Yeah.

It doesn't mean, but I'd rather go for it all.

Go all in, go for it all, and then see where I land.

Sure, you might be mayor of Atlanta.

Hey, you know, I met the mayor.

Well, you could definitely be mayor of Atlanta.

That's the easy lift.

I could be mayor of Tampa.

Governor of Georgia seems more like easier.

Imagine your pitch.

My dad was black, and now I'm going to run Chocolate City.

It'd be fucking amazing.

Love Atlanta.

Atlanta's amazing.

The mayor came to a show we had, and he was like a kid in the ring.

I loved it.

We gave him a title.

Yeah.

And he was just like, can I go stand on the bro?

Yeah, bro.

You're the mayor.

You can do whatever.

You can do whatever the hell you want.

It was really cool to see.

I want to talk about your peck injury.

Oh, yeah.

Do you know what happened to his peck?

I know it was a pectoral terror, right?

Show the match, Hell in the Cell, right?

Or is that a picture?

I didn't mean to direct anyone in that moment.

Do it, please.

Yeah, there it was.

That's gnarly.

Yeah, my mom thought it was makeup.

And you stay wrestling.

What the fuck?

So it's a rare time.

That's probably the, it's a very rare time.

The beginning of the match,

we had over 10,000 people in all-state arena in Chicago.

In the beginning of the match, I took that jacket off, and it was the weirdest feeling I've ever felt performing in front of a live audience ever.

They were grossed out and almost concerned.

God.

Jesus, bro.

And I remember they said, are you in horrific pain here?

Yes.

And I didn't have anything to supplement it.

And I lied about it.

And this is probably a prime example of they'll never let this happen again.

Of course.

And

how much prior to the match did you

have the injury?

So about, I was talking to Bert about this earlier, about

five days.

I think it's five days is over the course of the bruise.

Like we call it like it grew into the dumbledoor arm.

It just like kept overtaking my body.

It was small.

It was in there.

Oh, fuck.

This is going to fuck me up.

So about five, this is going to definitely screw you up.

So, but five days before, I walk into my gym.

It's super early in the morning.

I'm really just, I don't know.

This, I'm, I got an open cup of coffee and flip-flops on.

I'm clearly not there to seriously train.

That's bird style.

Go ahead.

Right.

So, open cup of coffee.

It gets worse.

Flip-flops on.

And it's just me and another guy.

And all I was going to do was chest that day.

But this dude who's in this gym with me is absolutely eating me up, like mean-mugging me.

And I've never had a gym confrontation.

Never.

Like,

just, he's just staring at me.

You don't know him.

I don't know him, right?

So he's doing all this CrossFit stuff.

He's taking up 80 machines.

There's two of us in there.

It's not bothering me so much, but I get it.

You're training for something, you know, like I get it.

So I go sit on the bench and I remember thinking to myself, I'm going to show him.

Oh,

I'm going to show him.

No warm-up?

So no warm-up, I put 225 on the bar.

This should have, it should have happened here.

225 is a lot for me.

It's a bench.

So it should have happened here.

I put 225 on the bar.

I take it off.

A little grimy, but I hit it down.

I put it up.

And I think, yeah, that didn't impress him.

And this is where it all goes.

Are you doing reps with it?

No, I just hit one.

You hit one.

I hit one.

Should have known then, since I'm not repping 225, this is a bad call.

So my max is at the time, maybe 330, but I mean, that's with a full day's warm-up.

And I had built up to it.

So I put three plates on.

I go for the big three plates, barefoot, open cup of coffee.

I unrack it.

Right away.

They say it snaps, but I didn't feel a snap.

It felt like velcro ripping in my arm and it goes no collars so the bar goes like this so now i'm trying not to be that guy so i try to keep the bar i keep the bar i drop it on this that dude runs over to me he goes are you okay and he helps me get the bar and put it back on after that whole moment between us and i remember him telling me he goes did you just tear your shoulder or your pec and i oh no i don't think so i went in the aerobics room and when it's i don't know if you torn the bicep did you ever tear the pec no so it's gone so basically it hangs like you see it hangs like a boob the tendon that pulls it to the arm hangs like a boob and i'm seeing it and my wife's like i don't think it's torn don't worry don't panic i'm heading into my first main event for wwe since my return this is just my dream here i i'm panicked she says don't panic it's not torn i get in a plank position which i read you know a quick google search that's how you can tell and it falls right there like fully fall and i did

your pec muscle so there's no connection so it's just hanging so it just hangs so like it's i think i'm out of this bet I think I'm out of this bet.

I can't do this.

He has a bench bet.

You're getting to 315, right?

Yeah.

I did 295 twice yesterday.

Oh, my gosh, you're right there.

I know, but I don't want my tit to hang.

But you should do.

I mean, I've seen a number of pec tears.

You should do a gradual warm-up that day.

You know,

get yourself nice and warm for it.

Don't just go over it.

I just want to just get out of it now.

Also, hydrate.

No water in my body.

Like, that thing was meant to be snapped.

And the doctor, because this was, I lied through my teeth to get into this match.

I had strength in my arm, you know, just a little bit, but I lied through my teeth to get to this.

And after, they kept saying, well, it can't get any worse.

It can't get any worse.

So we should let him wrestle.

Show the lead up to mine.

Show the stuff that leads up to.

You got to see Tom's dumpster inflammation.

And that's where you tore your bicep.

Here you go.

Here's what I remember vividly that kind of freaks me out when I remember it.

You're not ready for it.

I don't think I am, actually.

Right?

And Roy pulls me aside.

And he goes, you're going to have to dig deep on this one.

He goes, you're going to have to reach for that inner Larry Johnson.

And I felt an adrenaline rush.

I should have almost like calmed down before I tried.

I've heard lifters talk about it too.

He's like rehab, you get

it.

Torn left.

How debilitating is rehab, man?

Lifting down.

I remember being

talking about rehab guys.

And I was like, I'm just going to jump and and see what happens.

God.

Oh, God.

No.

That's not what I expect.

Oh, no.

Look how you Peter Griffin the landing, too.

Oh, God.

I had something completely different.

I thought you made it to the rim.

Yeah, I don't think.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Okay.

So

walk me through what.

Okay.

So here.

That's Roy.

He's like, I've never seen some shit like that.

No, Roy.

Oh, God.

So

let me tell you my perspective.

Okay.

Jeez.

This gets a little deep, and I don't need you to argue at all about this.

So I've dominated Tom physically in everything we've ever done.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

For whatever reason, any competition we've ever done, I've just owned him.

Okay.

And we go out to play basketball, and Tom is legit a good basketball player.

Yeah.

And I, and Tom said to me right before he goes, you know, they say the number one way guys over 40 get hurt is by playing basketball.

Dude, people were saying it to me two days before.

They're like, what are you doing with Bert?

I go, basketball.

And my friend, one of my friends was like, tell guys tear their ACLs, man.

And I was like, I hear that and I go,

I go, and this is old school television.

80% looks like 100%.

70% looks like 100%.

So I just go out and fuck around.

I don't go too hard.

But Tom is really doing good.

And he feels like he's superior now.

Like, it's the one time he's gotten to take, I'm the big dog with the paws crossed at the top of the mountain.

And this pup has been nibbling at me.

And it's the one time he got me to go,

right?

So Tom goes to do his dunks, and I, and we both get like seven feet.

I can't get eight feet.

Tom dominates eight feet.

And Tom's like, nine feet.

Raise it up.

Now he's owning it.

Yeah.

We get, no, I get nine feet.

He gets nine feet.

I get nine feet.

Nine feet.

And Tom is, by the way, Tom's like probably 285 pounds.

No,

it's 247 here.

Pull up the picture and you're, you, you don't know.

I can tell you exactly what my weight was.

What was it?

It was 247.

I swear to God.

Pulled me some pictures.

247 hidden nine foot dunk.

That's a like and way out of shape.

So you're you're heavy and you're out of shape, right?

So,

yeah, that's exactly.

I know for a fact that's what I was.

Just see a picture.

I just, I think you were maybe doing in kilograms.

Okay.

So here's, here's the truth.

What I said there is true.

So the guy, that coach,

he really, like, first of all, it's over at that point.

That's the part that I always,

we had it, we had a contest and he didn't do it.

And I did it.

And I should have just like walked away.

And that guy goes, you got a little more in you.

So he cranks it up to 9-3.

Okay.

Right.

And I was like, okay, three inches.

And I, in my head, I go, you know, that nine was tough.

No, I think I don't know.

Nine you did with two hands.

No, it was one hand.

Well, you did what you did eight with two hands.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Eight and eight and a half.

But like with one, with nine, so I go, okay.

So then he's like, three inches more.

And in my head, I kind of am like, I don't think I have this.

Yeah.

But he's like, bro, you got this.

Like, dig, dig deep.

So I just, you know, you feel that like kind of adrenaline rush.

And you're like, okay.

And I line up.

And what happens is when I, the reason this all goes is when I press off the left leg, my patellar tendon snaps.

So that's why there's no, everyone's like, how do you fall like that?

I'm like, because there's nothing pushing off anymore.

So, and then your body instinctively braces, and all that dead weight landed on the arm and snapped it.

And then the other thing that people can't see is that there's another scar here.

Yeah.

And actually, here that's more subtle.

And that's because six months later, my hand wasn't opening all the way.

It was opening like that.

Yeah.

So they're like, you have to do this now.

Is they take a nerve out of here and they put it in in here.

So that's what allows you to like pronate still.

Oh, this is the one.

Yeah.

This is our bullshit.

Like our leader.

It's amazing what the inches

difference.

Yeah, you're like, oh, that's that's not bad.

That's amazing.

Oh, you're on fire.

NBA Jam style.

I was like, oh, this is.

He's a good basketball player.

Any other sport, he's not competent.

But...

We were like, oh, okay.

And that's what it's over.

It's over then.

It's over.

We're just on the over.

It's over.

Walk away.

You did it.

Just walk away.

And then I was like, no, I'll do it.

Sweet, did you have to get a good idea at surgery?

Yeah, I was out for seven months.

So, and they, of course, WWE in true WWE fashion, they filmed the surgery.

And there's just a shot somewhere.

My wife has seen it of as soon as the guy opened me up.

This is after hearing, like, can't get any worse.

Yeah.

Can't get any worse.

Well, clearly, this match that went 25 plus minutes with a table bump and all this, maybe it built some swelling up.

This dude cuts me open straight to the ceiling, just blood, just shoots straight up, just straight.

And my brandy's just watching, you know, just couldn't believe it.

Yeah, so it might maybe get a little swelling involved there.

Oh, man.

Yeah, but that's a great, that right there will never happen again because I got, I snuck it in.

No one saw it.

How's your training now?

Like, how do you approach?

Oh, my gosh.

Differently?

Completely different.

Completely different.

I don't touch, I won't even step on the gym floor unless I've got a thing, you know, a shaker bottle, whatever it may be, with aminos in there, and I've already consumed half of it.

Also, no flat bench.

A flat bench was a hard thing to go.

I've been doing it since high school.

It's like the first

exactly.

No more flat bench.

So, well, your chest is, do you do like the standing press machine?

Yeah, no, I'll do cable crossover.

I'll do dumb.

Hammer press.

Yeah, I'll do anything like that, but no flat bench.

Flatbench also, for a lot of people, starts being a shoulder thing, too.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So your shoulders start to get like...

Yeah.

I had a good run with it, but never again do I want to find myself under the bar in any situation like that.

But

you got it, dude.

January 1st.

It's January 1st when you're doing it?

January 1st.

You have to have it by January 1st, and you're instantly 95?

I have 295 twice yesterday.

No bench shirt, right?

What?

No, I'm wearing that bench shirt.

This is real.

You got somebody just behind you.

Yeah.

Ah, man, you got it.

Just warm up, dude.

Yeah, warm up, though.

Warm up.

Warm up, hydrate.

Yeah.

I'm sorry you got hurt after you'd already won, but that's, I like the mind.

It's the best thing that ever happened to me.

Yeah.

But the camera thing.

But also, the camera's on.

Like, cameras on.

Red light guy.

Go for it.

Lift your head.

Oh, yeah.

If I was alone there, I'd have been like, okay, that's done.

Yeah.

All right, right.

Cameras are on, man.

Go for it.

When the cameras are on, that's when I perform.

Seeing the inch thing, though, is so we, whenever we do cage matches in wrestling, everybody always wants you to jump off the cage.

And I had done a moonsault off a cage, which is a backflip once before.

Jesus Christ, dude.

I have gotten to the age where, even if it's in my mind, like, hey, if I climb up there, you know, be on a knee, if I turn around,

just get me with a little bit of your shoulder, whatever.

We're going that because I've done this a bunch of times now.

But now, I'm this just happened.

I was in a cage match recently.

I climb to the top, and if I'm just staring at you, I'm just jumping like that.

I'm not, sorry, there's no rotation.

So, this happened recently, too, where I climbed up there, and this was on TV.

And I thought, not going backwards.

I'm not just because the inches.

And it's just in a a moment, like it's a thing.

You're not terrified at heights.

And when you get up, so you gotta go.

It's high as shit when you get up there.

You gotta go.

So, yeah, this was, this was a smaller, this was MSG.

This was go backwards off it, bro.

But when you go, when you no, fuck all that, dude.

Yeah, that one is not too bad.

There's another one with off a cage that was way too high.

There's one where I blew my knee, you know, but going backwards where your head follows the body, all that stuff you hear.

Yeah, you don't want to have that panic moment.

So now if I just am staring at you from the top,

it's just this one right here, which is the people are equally as impressed, you know?

Like, they're very much in love with it, thinking, like, it's only the boys backstage who will be like, hey, so no Musa all, huh?

Like, come on, man.

Come on.

Everyone's in.

Because everyone looks at that and goes, I can't fucking do that.

Oh.

I don't think there's anything I could do in pro wrestling.

I think I.

I talked with you about this.

You could do plenty.

You could do plenty.

Why don't you go to one of those, like, they have those training schools?

Yeah,

you could come to my school.

Yeah, this is the first time.

I learned how to take high.

I learned how to take.

but I still jumped.

Oh, what am I talking about?

I did.

Oh, my God.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, I broke my toe.

You broke your toe there?

Yeah, I just dug right into the mat.

Yeah, I learned how to take bumps, like how to fall.

And

when I was doing my movie, they taught me how to fall.

Yeah.

Like

where you can hit the ground.

Spread it out.

Yeah, and I learned it.

I had to do a bunch.

I did all my own stunts in the movie.

So I did a flying kick.

Oh, you got injured.

I did.

I blew out my tricep.

Yeah.

Man.

You remember the second season?

I had that.

That was such toes debilitating.

I broke my left big toe.

Yep.

Did you nail fall off?

Dude, I did it in the dumbest fucking...

I did it at

kicking your wife.

I wish.

It was in jujitsu where

the drill was just take this left leg over and

you kick the mat with the top of your foot.

And I was just like going boom, boom.

And then, you know, your brain just kind of drifts sometimes.

So as I'm doing it, I just have my foot arched up.

And so I kick the mat straight down.

And so my toe just goes, boop.

And I'm just like, ah!

And the guy's like, are you okay?

And I'm like, I don't fucking think so.

And then, yeah, there was blood from the nail.

But that break is so painful.

And when you, I go to get an x-ray and they're like, it's broken.

You're like, what do I do?

And they're like, nothing.

You just, yeah, you have to wait.

You just wait.

Yeah.

And then it'll heal.

Oh, man.

You know what they told me?

They go, when it stops hurting, then it's healed.

And I go, cool.

That's really cool.

They're like, one day thank you hurt and then you'll be better you're good you're good great oh man broken toes i'm so glad this happened yeah this is awesome like when i heard that you were on the podcast i was like i have to be there for this i was excited man i haven't seen you in so long also i appreciate the attire man oh thanks dude

he is the sharpest dressed i you're the thing about him that you guys that i that i like about the two of you is you guys like nice things you like looking nice you like feeling nice like i like flip-flops in a t-shirt like that's but that's who i am i'll take my shirt off the second I get an opportunity to.

Yeah.

But that's the one thing I remember going, like, God, they got to meet.

You guys could be.

I love your aesthetic.

I kind of was hopeful.

So, yeah, you have that appointment to pick up something in a

couple of weeks.

Your wash appointment, right?

I like your aesthetic, though, for when I'm retired.

That's what I want.

Yeah.

I want like that aesthetic.

How far do you see retirement away?

Well,

39 now, I'd say my contract is running till,

I don't want to wrestle full-time, definitely past 45.

Drop in for sure.

Keep myself in shape.

But full, I've been doing this.

Still be involved in the world?

I could see that.

Because you obviously have other aspirations.

It's clear.

Well, we talked about the governor thing.

But I mean, that is one thing, but you want to do other things too.

I would love to tell stories like we do in the ring in a different fashion.

If that's following.

Oh, you could do a theater tour.

A fucking arena tour.

Yeah, but you want to make shows and movies.

Yeah, I'd absolutely love to do it.

But I've always been so linked into wrestling and coming back to WWE where winning the championship for WWE is essentially like being the quarterback of the team.

Yeah, so it's it's been the most fun and rewarding time I've ever had in my career, but I can definitely see I don't think I'd be able to do it on this level because I feel the best I've ever felt.

You feel like I feel the best I've ever felt that well, what to do in front of a live crowd.

Plus, we have all these new kids.

Yeah.

I was working with one the other day,

Carmelo Hayes, really young guy coming up from our developmental system.

And to be able to see see him hear things and hear an audience.

And okay, this is why that didn't work.

This is why it did work.

I'd love to do it at this level up until probably 45.

Is there anyone that comes into wrestling?

Like, so you get comics that'll be like young comic, and they'll come into comedy and you'll be like, Yeah, who are your inspirations?

Like, I don't really watch much comedy.

And you're like, what?

And they just see comedy as like an occupation that they can do.

And you're like, do you know who David Tell is?

And they're like, no.

Mitch Hedberg?

And they're like, no.

I know who Joe Rogan is.

And you're like, okay.

But you don't know like the guys in New York.

Are there people that

come into wrestling that don't know your dad?

Really?

Yes.

And I have found, and I don't know if it's the same in comedy, not to get mad at them.

Right.

Not to for not knowing what they don't know.

Right.

Not to, it was a long time ago.

We think of like Macho Man and Hogan like it was yesterday.

It was almost 30 years ago.

It's not.

Yeah, I know.

I always refer, people always tell me that I refer to the 90s.

I'm like, it was like 10 years ago.

And they're like, that's 25 years ago.

Exactly.

Oh, yeah.

It's a very long time ago.

I don't expect, like, you talked to me about the Von Ericss.

I was like, okay, that's, you know, now the Iron Claw is out.

This is pre-Iron Claw.

I don't get mad at them for not knowing, but I do like to,

the only way we learn how to do this pro wrestling thing is from those who did it on a money drawing level.

That's the only way.

So in the gorilla position, we have Michael Hayes, we have Mr.

Heyman, Paul Heyman, we have Triple H.

There's a few others.

They did it.

So as long as those those people know when they come up, go to them.

Don't come to me.

I'm like, go to them.

They actually know the answers to your questions.

I feel like the knowledge gets passed on.

It's concerning, though.

And you're like, hey, we've got to keep this going.

We're breaking all these records and doing all this unbelievable business.

It's concerning, but also, like, you can't get mad at them.

Can you hit me with the belt, dude?

Of course.

Do you know how sacrilege this is?

It's not sacrilege.

This is rad, man.

Oh, my God, bro.

Yeah, it's a beefy one.

Jesus Christ.

That's a beefy one.

How about why don't we go into the lobby and you do a little move on Bert?

Like just give him a little show.

What kind of give him a give him a little show?

Just give him a little give him a little show.

Yeah, he wants to see this is a fucking special, huh?

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

That was the one.

So the story on the WWE championship is

my dad had, you know, back in the territory days, you had mentioned, he had gone to the northern territory to

just work as a guest for Vince Sr.

and he was really popular with the crowd and he had taken to them so they had him win the match, but in a way that he didn't win the title.

Looks great.

God.

Yeah.

You look great.

But he held it up.

He had a picture of him holding up.

And again, as a kid who believed, eight years old, I made it my goal.

Like, oh, I'm so sad you didn't leave with the title because you won the match.

You should have.

It became the whole genuine goal, even after the suspension of disbelief, even after I transferred into the other performance side of it.

I still, it was the goal.

Were you guys, by the way, it just hit me right now.

Were you guys the first

sport or were to like do the belt is the is the belt from you guys um i i'd say probably

i think now it's all you know everybody does so i'd say the belt is very likely from like george hackenschmidt the hack squats named after george and like ed the strangler lewis this turn of the century time period where boxing hadn't really taken off yeah madison square gardens still had the uh i don't know maybe the i see ancient grease oh sorry it's from 3000 bc yeah never mind i can't credit it to ed the strangler lewis anymore ancient mesopotamia had a world championship I was like, is this in 1941?

But I will say, I feel like a lot of places after who are doing, you know, whether it's boxing or MMA or whatever, they kind of did moderate

after the pro wrestling championship.

You got your belt as well.

Yeah, we had a sober October belt that I've never touched.

You didn't make it?

Never.

No, I've always been sober.

I just never win.

I can never be.

Well, look, we talked about it.

You're an amazing guest.

Thank you for coming.

No, you really are.

And everybody, just don't forget, January 6th, Raw is on Netflix.

It's going to be an event.

I'm going to go.

It's in fucking LA.

I'm going to go.

Sounds awesome.

Yeah.

Netflix has got to be able to hook that up, right?

Hang on my bus.

Of course.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Ooh.

Yeah.

You're in.

I'll either have a torn pack or I won't.

Or a porn tech.

Porn tech?

Yeah.

It's a whole nother thing.

Thanks a lot, man.

Thank you for coming here.

Appreciate you.

Appreciate it.

Thank you, brother.

All right.

See you guys next week.

Bert and Tom, Tom and Bert.

One goes tops while the other wears a shirt.

Tom tells stories and Bert's the machine.

There's not a chance in hell that they'll keep it clean.

Here's what we call two bears, one cave.